# Help with fert/co2 products!



## sholi (Jul 20, 2011)

I finally want to start raising some of my own live plants. I've researched some stuff about fertelizing and CO2, but I can't seem to make up how to use the two. I got some nice and bright flourescent lightbulbs so that's not a worry.

The plants I want only contain completely sumberged plants (unlike bamboo) and all at petsmart; my lfs.
Live Plants for Fish Tanks & Aquariums | PetSmart

I was wondering about which fert or CO2 supplement products to use in order to grow these rich and healthy plants. I found these three products and wondered if they were the best things to make my plants thrive:
1)API CO2 Booster Freshwater Aquarium Plant Supplement | Fertilizers & Supplements | PetSmart
2) Aqueon® Freshwater Aquarium Plant Food | Plant Food | PetSmart
3) Nutrafin® Plant Gro Aquatic Plant Essential Micro-Nutrient Supplement | Fertilizers & Supplements | PetSmart
So how and which ones should I use to make my plants beautiful and thriving!?

The questions I have;


I read that all plants need lighting, fert, AND CO2 boost. But some people say that it doesn't need CO2 boost or fert, but just one of the two and lighting. What should I know about this?
 Is there any combo of these 3 products I can use together/independently to make the plants healthy?
 Does the kind of plant depend on the things they need? Is this crucial? (Like i know the Red Ludwigia needs iron as it is said in the customer review in petsmart).
 Iron plays a huge roll in plant growth, do any of these products give iron to the plants?
 If I use more than 1 of these products at the same time, is it bad if I use them at the same time (like add one dose of this product in the water then add a dose of this next product right after)?
 Am I absolutely doing everything wrong and need to add more or less to the care of these plants? If so, what is it?

A little help with the maintenence of cleaning the plants off of snails and bugs/stuff, I read this and it told me to use either alum (this is some kind of spice?) or Potassium P (I heard bleach is your last resort though.)
Tips for Removing Aquarium Snails

So which one is a better/more preferable method or is either method fine? And should I use dechlorined water to clean these plants?

Thank you very much!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

sholi said:


> 1. I read that all plants need lighting, fert, AND CO2 boost. But some people say that it doesn't need CO2 boost or fert, but just one of the two and lighting. What should I know about this?
> 2. Is there any combo of these 3 products I can use together/independently to make the plants healthy?
> 3. Does the kind of plant depend on the things they need? Is this crucial? (Like i know the Red Ludwigia needs iron as it is said in the customer review in petsmart).
> 4. Iron plays a huge roll in plant growth, do any of these products give iron to the plants?
> ...


Hello, and welcome to the world of planted tanks. Let's get started 

1. Different plants need different requirements but in general, yes they require CO2, light, and nutrients. See the link below for a list of plant profiles, and you should be able to build an idea of what the plants you want to have need in order to flourish:
All Plants - Plant Profiles
Depending on the plant, some are heavy root feeders and can obtain their nutrients through good, rich substrate without added fertilizers to the water column (Google the Walstad dirted tank). Some I know of that do this are tiger lotus/dwarf water lilies, hygros, and amazon swords. Others like mosses require fertilizers in the water column as they do not develop extensive root systems.

2. Depending on the size of your tank, I'd say you have two choices. One choice is two of the three liquid fertz you displayed (the CO2 booster and either item 2 or 3, but you won't need 2 AND 3). The other choice is to use item 1 and then go to GreenLeafAquatics and get their PPS Pro fert package. It's a one-stop shop for all of the micro and macronutrients your plants need, save for CO2. Here's a link to GLA's PPS Pro section:
PPS-Pro | Aquarium Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums

3. Yes. See 1 above. In general, red and purple plants need iron, plants with small leaves need lots of light, stem plants need root fertilization, mosses and floating plants need fertz dosed to the water column.

4. 2 and 3 deliver chelated iron to your tank in trace amounts. If you want to boost your iron, buy some ferrous iron gluconate (OTC Human dietary supplement, available at any pharmacy) and dissolve enough of the tablets to get 10mg/mL (10g per L), and you'll have a home-made solution of Flourish Iron supplement (or you could buy the product and save yourself the trouble). Ferrous iron gluconate is absorbed much easier by plants than chelated iron, and both can be used to boost your iron.

5. No. The only fertz I know of that don't mix well are iron and potassium phosphate, and the result is a totally harmless precipitate that settles into your substrate. The only annoyance of such is the wasted fertilizer.

6. Depending on the size of your tank, liquid CO2 booster might not cut it. If I were you, for a tank less than 30 gallons, I'd look into doing a yeast fermentation CO2 system using a soda/juice bottle, yeast and sugar, and some other supplies. If you're dealing with a bigger tank, I'd look into a paintball setup or a full pressurized system. Here are some links to consider:
DIY CO2 Made Easy - DIY Aquarium Projects - Aquatic Plant Central
Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos
In addition, you'll want to consider what light to use. LEDs are the best but most expensive, IMO, and some great brands to consider are the Finnex Planted + and Current USA Satellite. T5HO are less expensive but are power hungry and the bulbs require replacing every 6-12 months. My preferred T5HO brand is Current USA Nova Extreme, but there's plenty of others. There's also some DIY projects like VHO CFL bulbs in reflectors over light diffuser grating, all available from your hardware store. I can provide more info if you're interested.

7. I actually prefer to have snails in my tank. They don't harm anything, some fish like to munch on them, and they clean EVERYTHING. If you're interested in eradicating them, potassium permangenate dip is a great method. If you're not planning on having any intertebrates like shrimp and snails in your tank, you could dose with copper and it'll kill all the snails with no harm to anyone else. Never heard of alum.

As a rule, I would always use dechlorinated water. Buy some tap water conditioner and you'll be fine. Keep in mind that your tap water may have lots of nutrients already, if you live near a protected watershed like me, and if you have a water softener in your house you'll have high sodium levels from the salt backflush capability of most water softeners, which is harmful to inverts (think pouring table salt on a slug).

Hope this helps! I'm in the chatroom most weekdays during business hours PST if you'd like to chat more, or I'll respond to this thread.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Gizmo really covered the bases.
I'm all in on the PMDD ferts(hit ferts on gizmos link and these are 1/3 the cost). don't waste your money on whatever stores sell.You'll spend less for more than 1 years worth(probly close to 3 years) then even 1 or 2 bottles of the other stuff.
You lighting is very important,need to know if your flourescents are HO(high out put) or NO (normal out put ),tempature (in kelvin{EI 6500K}) and wattage.Watts per gallon is bunk,but This info will still help alittle.
CO2 is the best thing I have done for my tank,fish and plants in the last 10 years.It and the light are what determine how much fertalising your plants need.


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## sholi (Jul 20, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply, but thank you guys lots! 

I have 2 of these in my tank.

Aqueon® Mini Compact Fluorescent Aquarium Lamp | Lights | PetSmart

And Im afraid about the bugs or water insects that may show up if i put the plants in. I really dont like snails too haha. I prefer a bit of algae to make the tank look more natural, but not too much. 

Is the chance of getting bugs in my tank by the plants almost the same chance as if I buy a fish with a disease u cant rlly see when buying it?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

How big is your tank? I'd say those bulbs will only be effective up to about 10 gallons.

You can buy the plants emersed (not in a tank) via PetsMart, however, if you buy them emersed, be prepared for them to "melt", i.e. they shed their leaves adapted for emersed growing and develop new leaves for submerged growing. Otherwise, if you buy plants out of a tank, make sure none of the tanks at the LFS you buy from have snails.

What substrate are you going to use?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Actually properly placed those bulbs may do just fine!
The fact they are 50/50 is the biggest issue IMO.If they are available in straight 6700K then they would be better for plants.
You got to get over fear of snails or bugs.I won't say if either are good or bad but if they come in with the plant then you will have to deal with it.
The Potassium Permanganate would probly work if you made the mix strong enough.
My MTS have survived several PP treatments(they were not to kill snails and only at 2ml/l).There are many good links on using PP to "clean plants".It would be my first choice.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not knowing the size of your tank, you are probably at low light. If it were me I would have to do some serious consideration if I needed and fert supplementaion or not. If you plan to properly stock the tank possibly just a simple liquid fert will suffice. I don't normally recommend them, but if you have a small tank, low light, and you never plan to expand they could still last you quite a while. Powdered ferts are the way to go and you are much better off buying the PPMD (stands for poor man's dosing drops) or the EI pack. PPS pro is for the person who likes to test and test and test and it sucks. Not really needed for a low light tank, IMO. We can hook you up with an EI dosing schedule for a low light tank and no need to test as long as you do 50% water changes per week.

Provide more details of your tank and stock and you will get better recommendations.


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