# Nitrite and nitrates are high



## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

So to make a long story short, my Nitrites and Nitrates are incredibly high. i have and established tank and have had fish in it for about a month. There is no ammonia. nitrate is past 5 ppm and my nitrates are around 80ppm. They have been like this for about 2 weeks. i have been doing 50% water changes about every 4 days. does anybody have any advice to get this problem fixed??


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Can you tell us a little about your tank (size, occupants, filter, etc...)?

Does not sound like an established tank to me. Sounds like it is cycling still. The nitrogen cycle takes 4-6wks usually if you start it with fish and since the cycle didn't start until you put the fish in the tank...you look like you have a ways to go.

You need to do a 50% water change daily until the nitrites get down to around the 1ppm level. Still not good, but usually an attainable goal when cycling and most fish can endure it. Stop feeding for now until it comes down.

Once your nitrites and ammonia are zero, more than likely your tank has finished cycling. An etablished tank is about 4-5 months beyond the cycle, IMO. Some believe much longer periods.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

one month will not make a tank "established". It can sometimes take 6-8 weeks before a tank is fully cycled.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

My levels were all zero for about 2 weeks with just a trace of ammonia. it all started when i put 3 rocks in the tank from lake superior. i had scrubbed them under very hot water but never boiled( it was before i knew about boiling). my tank is a 35 gallon hex. i have a marineland 200 filter. So my level will continue to fluctuate for 4 months?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Did you test the rocks? You need to make sure they are aqaurium safe. You can test them by pouring vinegar on them or use a ph up/down product (not that I recommend using them). If they smoke, you shouldn't use them.

If the rocks weren't safe or they are safe they would not cause any problems you are seeing right now. It sounds to me you're experiencing a normal cycling tank. You will probably be finished ia another week or so, but just a guess.

Your levels should not fluctuate, even if the tank is not what would be termed "established". I wouldn't worry so much about whether or not your tank would be considered established or not. Get it through the nitrogen cycle and time will make the rest happen.

What fish are in the tank?


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I testeed the rocks and they passed. i also boiled them 2 nights ago just to make sure. i have 2 kennyis, a blue acara, a firemouth, and a pleco. i am still very new into this hobby and i thought i had a god handle on thing to watch, do, and to look out for. now im not so sure


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You've been doing fine so far and we are always here to help. Get the water changes done to get the nitrites under control and you will be on the downward slope. Once the tank has finished getting through the nitrogen cycle it is just settling into a regular maintenance plan to make sure things stay problem free.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I do 5 gal water changes once a week. i add my water treatment, waste control, and benneficial bacteria. So from what im understanding is that i need to do 50% water changes daily to keep my nitrites down to 1 ppm and that i shouldnt have that much longer to go before itts done cycling? also 2 more questions that just popped into my head. Do i have any room left in my tank for 1 possibly 2 more fish? i looked it up and the total length of all my fish is 29 in. fully grown. i should have room for more right? And is there any way to change my substrate now or should i wait a while? i used the gravel that came with it and its got blue and purple and pink, now im looking for a more natural look. Thanks for all the help so far!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> So to make a long story short, my Nitrites and Nitrates are incredibly high. i have and established tank and have had fish in it for about a month. There is no ammonia. nitrate is past 5 ppm and my nitrates are around 80ppm. They have been like this for about 2 weeks. i have been doing 50% water changes about every 4 days. does anybody have any advice to get this problem fixed??


1) reduce the bioload

and

2) even more importantly increase the nitrAte consumers.

for 1 stop adding food until nitrItes go down

For 2 add live plants.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Stop adding anything but dechlor. You will have a difficult time finding plants they wont wreek havoc on I would think, but there are some out there I hear. Increase your water changes to 50%.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

So do not add the waste control or the bacteria? till the levels go down or for good? And do 50% water changes weekly or just every day till the levels go down? And the reason why i havent added plants is ive read that cicklids eat them.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> So do not add the waste control or the bacteria? till the levels go down or for good? And do 50% water changes weekly or just every day till the levels go down? And the reason why i havent added plants is ive read that cicklids eat them.


Yes that is true. Cichlids eat plants just like the fish consume macro algaes in marine aquariums. What you can do is seperate the fish from the plants by using a refugium. Which can be nothing more than a partition so a small tank area is for the plants and the fish have the rest of the tank. A more complicated method is to have a seperate container to form the refugium and sump and circulate the water from the display to the refugium/sump. But that is a lot more worry, complications, and expense. Yet it is very common on marine setups.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> So do not add the waste control or the bacteria? till the levels go down or for good? And do 50% water changes weekly or just every day till the levels go down? And the reason why i havent added plants is ive read that cicklids eat them.


I'm not even sure what waste control is, lol. It doesn't sound good though and would not add. You need waste during the cycle. I would do the 50% until the levels are good and then once a week once the cycle has completed.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

So do i need live plants or can i stick with plastic? and the waste control stuff is made by Nutrafin, and it says is Resuces organic waste, digests waste in filters gravel, helps reduce aquarium maint. and synergistic effest with Cycle( nio clue what that means. just tested and my nitrites are at 2ppm doing a 50% right now? Does anybody have any help for me about my previous question about the substrate and a extra fish or 2?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

By the way, you only need to keep the 50% changes going daily until you get the nitrites around 1ppm, no change needed if it stays there. After the cycle completes then do shift to weekly. You can change your substrate but it were me I'd wait until the cycle finished. There is a planted all black substrate you can put in that doesn't even require rinsing, but does cost a little more. As far as adding fish, not sure. The one thing I do know is you need to wait a while. You're a little heavy for what is going on. Let things settle out and then re-evaluate. Do it now and you'll possibly create more issues than you have right now.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

i did do a water change about 6 hours ago. Levels are fine now, i klnow thats not very accurate but i just wanted to see. and when you say let things settle do you mean let the fish that are in there get used to the right levels again or let the tank settle down? and how long? 2 weeks? a month?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> i did do a water change about 6 hours ago. Levels are fine now, i klnow thats not very accurate but i just wanted to see. and when you say let things settle do you mean let the fish that are in there get used to the right levels again or let the tank settle down? and how long? 2 weeks? a month?


Let the tank settle. A tank that has just completed the cycle is still fairly vulnerable. I would wait at least two weeks, if you can manage. Will give you time to figure out what your normal weekly maintenence is going to be like.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I can manage. Like ive said before im new to this and i didnt realize how exiting it is to have your own trpical fish survive, and having to be patient haha. All ive been doing from week to week is water changes, should i be doing more? Ive vaccummed the gravel once.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Vacuum gravel is good every couple of weeks, but never the whole tank at once. But do not start doing that until after the cycle completes.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> So do i need live plants or can i stick with plastic? and the waste control stuff is made by Nutrafin, and it says is Resuces organic waste, digests waste in filters gravel, helps reduce aquarium maint. and synergistic effest with Cycle( nio clue what that means. just tested and my nitrites are at 2ppm doing a 50% right now? Does anybody have any help for me about my previous question about the substrate and a extra fish or 2?


Many people have successful tanks with plastic plants but the plants do nothing to balance out and stabilize the tank. But they do look good.

IMHO live plants are extremely good for the tank itself. They will consume the wastes while adding oxygen to the water. And when something goes bump in the night the plants "kick in" to return the tank to normal operation.

I don't agree with any chemicals for waste control. The best thing during cycle is to keep the bioload as low as possible which I do by adding 1 fish and not adding food for a week. I get no ammonia spikes and only very low nitrIte spikes the lass 1 day that way. I also heavily plant the tank right from the start.

Cycle is another product for cycle control. Again IMHO at best unnecessary. (Use your immagination for at worse. *old dude)

You can change your substrate at anytime. It would be best to drain the tank into a plastic container, take out the existing gravel, add the new substrate. Plant the plants. Then refill the tank with water poured over a saucer.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think the point has already been made that plants will help numerous times. It is not just someone's opinion that live plants are extremely good for a tank...I'm pretty sure it is a well known fact.

The problem you face is the fish that are in the tank. They (plants) will not do well with them constantly beating them up. This will elimate nearly all stems, but some you may be able to get away with. I have found plants listed that could work with goldfish. I figure if they will work with them, cichlids should be easier. Some of those are:

Saggitaria Subulata - Dwarf and Tall versions
Sagittaria chilensis
Ozelot Swords
Java Fern
Java Moss
Some anubias may work well also
Possibly Anacharis

If you go to a cichlid site and ask what others are doing, or maybe a simple Google search, you will have other plants that will do fine.

You'll need lighting to support them, but the light requirement will not be much for these because they are all low light plants. It may just be a bulb change and not have to mess with your fixture you have at all. Possible anyway.

As far as the substrate goes, your choice on how painful you want it to be. These plants will grow in small pea size gravel just fine. There is nothing special required. Some cichlids may stir stuff up a little, so you don't want something that will just end up a mess. There are hard ways to do it, like mentioned above, or easier ways. Before you change anything...let the cycle complete. Now is not the time to change anything.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks to everyone, jrman an beaslbob. you have been alot of help to me and have been atient with all the questions that ive been asking and reasking due to me not understanding. So do not do anything but 50% till my nitrites are down to 1ppm. at that time switch back to my 5 gal changes. when my cycle is all done wait a good 2 to 3 weeks before doing anything then at that time i can go ahead and change my substrate, add live plants if i choose too, and possibly add a fish or 2. HOw does this plan sound to everyone? Thanks again to ya'll. I really appreciate it!!


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

Hey Chevyman. That's why we are here.

Sounds spot on. My only addition, IF you wanted to add plants. You can add them now. Priority of finishing the cycle though.

Picture of substrate! We need a thread devoted only to the colorful substrates!

edit: you have fish that hate plants. while live plants are good, dead decaying plants may be more trouble than you need right now. I retract my addition. Wait till cycle is over before playing.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> Thanks to everyone, jrman an beaslbob. you have been alot of help to me and have been atient with all the questions that ive been asking and reasking due to me not understanding. So do not do anything but 50% till my nitrites are down to 1ppm. at that time switch back to my 5 gal changes. when my cycle is all done wait a good 2 to 3 weeks before doing anything then at that time i can go ahead and change my substrate, add live plants if i choose too, and possibly add a fish or 2. HOw does this plan sound to everyone? Thanks again to ya'll. I really appreciate it!!


I would stop adding food and nitrItes will drop to 0 with no water changes. *old dude

my .02


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Beaslbob, i have not added food for 3 days.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> Beaslbob, i have not added food for 3 days.


Nitrites will drop on their own, but the unknown part is just how long. If this were a tank that the nitrogen cycle had already completed, it could be possible to see it gone in a day or less since all the beneficial bacteria would already be in place to process it. Since it isn't, not doing a water change potentially endangers your fish. Not worth it when a water change takes a mere 30min.

When your cycle has completed and looking at your bio-load (amount of fish), personally I think you'll better off doing 50% weekly changes. 5g per week is not likely to keep up with the rising nitrates that you'll encounter. Also true if you end up putting plants in the tank. Many cichlids are pretty big waste producers. The plants will help though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> Beaslbob, i have not added food for 3 days.


Before I found out about macro algae for marine tanks I would not add food for a week after adding the first fish. NitrItes would peg the kit for a few days at about the 4 day period. Then drop to 0 in a day or two.

One time it took a couple of weeks in a tank I had been feeding for a month or so.


sounds like your tank is about to drop to 0 any day now.

my .02


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

When i go home tonight ill test the water and check back in here with the results and what ill be doing next.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Well it dropped alot quicker than i thought. i took a water sample to my lfs had them test it and everything came back at 0, well my nitrates there was just a hint but nothing major. so now im just gonna play it cool for about 3 weeks then ill change my substrate. A fella at my local store said that the 1 in of fish per gallon does not apply to cichlid that i could probably got a quarter to half over the size of the tank( so i have a 35 hes saying that i could possibly go to 52.5 in. of fish if my math is right). is there any truth to that? i have not heard that at all and am curious to hear what you guys have to say about it.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

It depends on your filtration. If you have more filtration you can get away with it. You also need to look at the fact that you honestly have less than 35 gallons after adding gravel and decorations as well. I wouldn't trust his advice personally.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Chevyman said:


> *Well it dropped alot quicker than i thought*. i took a water sample to my lfs had them test it and everything came back at 0, well my nitrates there was just a hint but nothing major. so now im just gonna play it cool for about 3 weeks then ill change my substrate. A fella at my local store said that the 1 in of fish per gallon does not apply to cichlid that i could probably got a quarter to half over the size of the tank( so i have a 35 hes saying that i could possibly go to 52.5 in. of fish if my math is right). is there any truth to that? i have not heard that at all and am curious to hear what you guys have to say about it.


congrats. Once you get it balanced out it does drop down. I only hope you feel as good as i did when that happened to me. *old dude

my .02


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I definatly felt good about it finally leveling out. Well heres another kicker. i got home from work today, and my firemouth was dead. His eyes were all peckd out. so now im trying to figure out if it was due to the other fish bullying him or if he couldnt take the high nitrate and nitrites? i called my lfs and there thinking that he was just so stressed out by the cycle that it ended up killing him. he did have red on one of his gills, which i know is not a good sign for the other guys. i will be watching that other fish to make sure they dont start having problems. i wont replace him right away, ill still wait a couple of weeks. and as far as having alot of cichlids i asked a different person at the store and she seemed really suprised that the other person would tell me something like that. she said i could possibly have about 40 to 43 in and that is max! i have a marineland 200(rated up to 50 gallons) anyone have any input on the situation?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glad to hear all is done. Nothing like the power of a water change. I'd still test for a couple of more days just to make sure. Shift to doing water changes weekly and with your bio-load I would do 50% like I said before.

Fish going through the cycle can be stressed and I have read that it actually decreases their lifespan overall. I am sure it did not help.

I also would stop asking the advice of personnel in your lfs. The problem here is most have never kept fish and only pick up things here and there and try to pass along advice. Keeping fish in a store does not match what people must do at home as out systems are much different and fish usually aren;t in the store for very long. In the 2 Petco, 1 Petsmart, and 2 local stores I have been to in my area, about 3 of them actually have fish at home to take care of. If they give you an idea great, just don't decide on it until you have come home and researched it. I'm not sure what the person was saying to you? That you can have more fish or should have less?


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

He was saying that since i have a cichlid tank, that i can cram fish into the tank. What he told me was that since i have a 35 gal. that i could have close to 50 inches of fish. which i know the rule of a inch of fish per gallon. This is the first time iove heard of this. I have a filter for a 50 gal on my 35 so i know i could maybe have one extra fish but that many?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have heard of overstocking slightly for Africans. The keeps territorial issues from forming supposedly.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Well i have been doing alot of research in my free time( which seems to be getting less and less) and thats what ive been finding out too. i can crowd a little but not as much as the fella at the lfs was saying. now i gotta replace my firemouth and find another 2. (in a few weeks)


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