# filtering question



## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

Here I go second question ever, very new at this...so please help.

I am building a wet dry filter for a 65 gallon fresh water tank. I am following the following link to get advise...
Building Main Chamber for a Wet-Dry Filter
The problem is that I am not sure if this is all I need so I am reaching out for help!
Do i need anything else to go along with the prefilter and the bio balls? 
Does having live plants in the tank help with filtration?


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Not sure what effect you're after or what advantages you're seeking in an external filter.
Typically, the advantages of a sump filter would be not having to top off, customizable filter media and easier access to the filter media.
The link you posted seems to be an attempt to solve a goldfish specific related problem. I don't believe that it is the most efficient way to solve the problem either.

1) are you looking at keeping goldfish? If not, what?
2) What do you expect from your filter?
3) Is there a problem you'd like to solve or are you just looking at saving money?

cb


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

No other filter will match the effectiveness of a wet/dry filter. I would keep going with that idea as long as it is the needed size for the tank it will go on. Looks like a pretty crude build, but it looks like it has all the pieces. You could get a larger container so you could put in a sponge foam filter wall that the dripped water passes through before it is pumped. Just another step in polishing the water, but not needed per se.

Having live plants will help any situation, but with gf you may be limited on what they will not decimate.


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> Not sure what effect you're after or what advantages you're seeking in an external filter.
> Typically, the advantages of a sump filter would be not having to top off, customizable filter media and easier access to the filter media.
> The link you posted seems to be an attempt to solve a goldfish specific related problem. I don't believe that it is the most efficient way to solve the problem either.
> 
> ...


seeking...
I went to a local small pet store a showed a picture of my tank to the person behind the counter, he told me that I had a great tank and told me that I needed a wet/dry filter that he did not stock. He told were to go to buy it. I went to the other otore and $387 later I could get the filter I needed according to both stortes. I did not buy it because I though it was very high in price. I google the name and there are many was to acomplish the same task for a lot less money. 

answers...
1) to start off yes, I want to experiment with an inexpensive fish like gold fish. Enventualy get the fresh water sharks like 4 of them.
2) to keep my tank clean, I was told that with the wet/dry filter, the maintence is a lot less and much superior to any other.
3) no problems yet just looking to see if I need another type of media after the bio ball to further clean the water. I am always trying to save money whenever I can, if I can.


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> No other filter will match the effectiveness of a wet/dry filter. I would keep going with that idea as long as it is the needed size for the tank it will go on. Looks like a pretty crude build, but it looks like it has all the pieces. You could get a larger container so you could put in a sponge foam filter wall that the dripped water passes through before it is pumped. Just another step in polishing the water, but not needed per se.
> 
> Having live plants will help any situation, but with gf you may be limited on what they will not decimate.


I did get a larger container in case that I had to add more things. I will look into the sponge foam filter. I want to start with gold fish (inexpensive) but eventually go to the fresh water sharks. What are the recomended plants for both gold fisha and the sharks?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

My wet/dry for a 55g marine tank was nothing more then a wastebasket with the bottom removed except for a cross in the center. (4 rectangular holes). I then siliconed window screen and fill it with crushed oyster shells. That was for a marine tank and the oyster shells helped buffer calcium as well as filter. But the shells were very inexpensive like 40 pounds of $7 or so.

I then put another screen on top with lava rocks on top of that and a small food type storage container on top.

The overlfow drained from the tank into the small container which filled with water then overflowed through the basket. So the water spread out, was filtered, and the rushing water sound muffled.

The waste basket then drained into a plastic storage container I crammed in with the long side for and aft. That way the wastbasket was behind the stand and the drain has a straight shot to the basket.

On the other side of the stand was a smaller storage container which was the sump.

The larger container acted as a refugium and connected to the sump with a pvc bulkhead so the level in the refugium remained almost full and the levels changed in the sump.

I had the return pump in line with a low mounted bulkhead from the sump to the pump with return ines back to the tank. although I used rigid pvc I did find it important to have flexable tubing and the pump intake and outlet to prevent damage to both the pump and pvc pipes.

I also made an overflow from pvc fittings for about $20.

Hope that helps.

for Fw the refugium could eventually house plants in the event you get plant eaters in your display.


my .02


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Just remember - freshwater sharks in the pet store are barbs with triangular dorsal fins. Nothing more, nothing less. It's marketing.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

MJAVY7 said:


> I did get a larger container in case that I had to add more things. I will look into the sponge foam filter. I want to start with gold fish (inexpensive) but eventually go to the fresh water sharks. What are the recomended plants for both gold fisha and the sharks?


Goldfish are the most expensive fish to own btw. If you go by tank size and filtration needed - and IMHO not the prettiest either - except in a pond.

Buy a male and 2-3 female guppies and you should end up with a tank full.

Endlers would also make a great starter fish. - and no need for external filtration there - a HOB would do fine.

cb


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> Goldfish are the most expensive fish to own btw. If you go by tank size and filtration needed - and IMHO not the prettiest either - except in a pond.
> 
> Buy a male and 2-3 female guppies and you should end up with a tank full.
> 
> ...


Hummm....I not sure if I feel ready for the babies right away, but I will considert it.. Keep in mind that I am very new at this, I have take it easy and if screw up it might cost me the live of the fish.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Guppies and Endlers are far better starter fish IMHO than Goldfish because the waste produced.
In a 55g - you can happily keep 3 goldfish @ 15-20g per fish which is what most informed people would suggest.

In the same tank, if you started with 2 males and 5 female guppies, you'd have to start selling fish when you got to 25 or more fish - which might be sooner than you'd think!

cb


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

navigator black said:


> Just remember - freshwater sharks in the pet store are barbs with triangular dorsal fins. Nothing more, nothing less. It's marketing.


That's what I was told at one of th pet stores that I went to. 
I think they look cool though.


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

for a 65 gallon, if you like sharks you may want to look into a few of the different catfish. Bear in mind some get pretty big but smaller ones like the Pictus Catfish only get to be around 5-6" and like to be in groups. With a tank of that size you could fit a pretty good assortment of great fish in. When it comes to sump filtration it is really hard to go wrong, they are fully customizable and can be built a million different ways. I tend to now build mine so that the final reserve has as much usable water as possible. BTW if you don't want to spend an arm and a leg on a pump, go to lowes and find the pumps they have for artificial ponds. Great pumps, I use them on both of my sumps.


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

CrazyMFFM said:


> for a 65 gallon, if you like sharks you may want to look into a few of the different catfish. Bear in mind some get pretty big but smaller ones like the Pictus Catfish only get to be around 5-6" and like to be in groups. With a tank of that size you could fit a pretty good assortment of great fish in. When it comes to sump filtration it is really hard to go wrong, they are fully customizable and can be built a million different ways. I tend to now build mine so that the final reserve has as much usable water as possible. BTW if you don't want to spend an arm and a leg on a pump, go to lowes and find the pumps they have for artificial ponds. Great pumps, I use them on both of my sumps.


Do I need anything else to go along with the prefilter and the bio balls inside of the sump?

As far as the pump, I pick up a Aqueon Pump 2500 (485 GPH) for under $30.00 on Ebay. Is that a good deal?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Mjavy:

Look an external wet/dry sump system is difficult to setup. For instance from your last post that 485gph is what the pump will do without lifting the water at all. Most pumps have charts that say (just guessing to show point)

gph___height (head feet)
485______0
350______2
250______4
100______8

the point is the higher the water is pumped back to the tank the less flow you get.

I suggest you take a look at the link in my signature and seriously consider those methods with platties, tetras and so on. Then consider more complicated systems in the future.

just a thought

worth at most .02


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Bob, this thread is about filtration. He obviously wants all the things not consistant with your 'methods' so concidering them would be a huge step back from what he is wanting. Please try to keep your recommendations where they are applicable, if someone is asking about a method you do not use then you don't have a horse in this race and leave it alone.


To the OP: I would recommend a sponge filtration pad, a bit of filter floss, and your bio balls. Also look into Chemi Pure carbon for pulling meds out of the tank. It is great stuff, and you did great on that pump.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

MJAVY7 said:


> Here I go second question ever, very new at this...so please help.
> 
> I am building a wet dry filter for a 65 gallon fresh water tank. I am following the following link to get advise...
> Building Main Chamber for a Wet-Dry Filter
> ...


Sorry

thought I was helping. *old dude

my .02


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Sorry
> 
> thought I was helping. *old dude
> 
> my .02


You did help a littler but you are at the opposite end of the spectrum. I want to start at the other end (no plants) then eventually maybe add a few. 

I tried plants in the front yard of my house and I have failed, so I am not to comfortable with them however if it helps the fish feel more at home then I will definatelly consider it....along with the wet dry filter.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

MJAVY7 said:


> You did help a littler but you are at the opposite end of the spectrum. I want to start at the other end (no plants) then eventually maybe add a few.
> 
> I tried plants in the front yard of my house and I have failed, so I am not to comfortable with them however if it helps the fish feel more at home then I will definatelly consider it....along with the wet dry filter.


thanks and all this is just something to consider.

FWIW plants die in my front yard also. *old dude

external sump/wet-drys can and will eventually flood the area around the aquarium. that's the danger of pumping water from one open container to another open container. I had 3 floods on my marine system before I figured out how to prevent them. so you might want to chat with the people in the marine forums on how to setup a sump system.

Meanwhile best tank ever.

still just my 

.02


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

If you're new to fish, keep it simple and follow tried and tested methods. It will all get complicated soon enough - as you develop a taste for things.
Staying away from plants for now Is a great idea - I think some of my fish diseases came in through that route - so the simpler - the better.
This is why stocking levels are going to be critical as well as how fast you add fish and increase your bio-load. The bacteria needs time to adjust to the waste production.
Doing things that people have tried and done well before on a large scale might sound boring but there's a reason that these classic combinations work and sometimes it's a lot less obvious than you might think.
I say this having been stung before with a less obvious problem with a tried and tested method 
cb


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would suggest NOT following the info in the link suggested in beaslbob's post. Although some success may be garnered through those means, they are nowhere close to the accepted methods of keeping a planted tank, much less a healthy tank. And, in no way meet the desires of this site in relation to safe fish keeping and border very close to animal cruelty.


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## MJAVY7 (Apr 4, 2012)

^^ ...animal curelty, that not good.


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