# Bio media.



## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

I am in the planning stages of a DIY canister system. Is the such a thing as "too much bio area" in the canister's? I am thinking doing an enormous size for the bio section using the ceramic or equal. But will the bacteria run out of food if it is too large?


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

I don't think you can have "too much"

My understanding is that you will only have the amount of bacteria necessary to handle your bio load. So even if you have 40 pounds of substrat pro but only three fish, you're only going to have enough bacteria to support three fish...

I may be completely wrong...


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

The bacteria only exist in proportion to their food supply. Their colony grows till it can consume that amount of the ammonia
and nitrites which are in the tank on an on-going basis. I have been wondering, considering the size of one of those bacteria,
just how little of an aria you could "get away with" for their allotted space(bio-media).
No matter how much bio-media your DIY canister filter contains, only that amount of bacteria that are necessary will grow.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

One of my canisters has nothing but ceramic rings, balls in it. It runs no foam etc

Tank is clear as


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## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

I think I am ok in my thinking? I am going to provide a lot more area for bio because I have the space to do so. In my planning, I am thinking mechanical canister, then bio canister, then a final scrub/ charcoal canister in case I need it. In the scrub/ charcoal can, I haven't decided on the filter cartridge, but I want it to be like a pool filter! This is my first tank, and it is a 150.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Alasse said:


> One of my canisters has nothing but ceramic rings, balls in it. It runs no foam etc
> 
> Tank is clear as


I'm the same ,but opposite!I only run sponges for my bio and plenty of mechanicals.Water is clear,but I do weekly wc.
Skip the notion of carbon(especially a large area of it).If you so believe in "huge bio" can't see the "need" for so much chemical.
Check into purigen(by seachem) as a much better alternative(that last as it can easily be regenerated).


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

Not a fan of purigen, tried it, yeah just not happy with the results at all

Mine has carbon in it, but it is completely exhausted (been in there for over 2 yrs lol), it is now just used as media for the bacteria to grow on


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

Chris&Nancy said:


> I think I am ok in my thinking? I am going to provide a lot more area for bio because I have the space to do so. In my planning, I am thinking mechanical canister, then bio canister, then a final scrub/ charcoal canister in case I need it. In the scrub/ charcoal can, I haven't decided on the filter cartridge, but I want it to be like a pool filter! This is my first tank, and it is a 150.


I'd get some opinions on Charcoal from the vets here before I went down that road. Some folks use it as a water polisher, so it's not all bad... But my understanding is that it can absorb things like medications and toxins and if not changed before it deactivates, it will leach those toxins right back into the water. I personally don't use any carbon at all, and my water is crystal clear... 

Although on a much smaller scale, here is what I am running in my canister...

First stage - Coarse Sponge (Mechanical / Bio) [Basket 1]
Second Stage - Medium Density Floss (Mechanical) [Basket 2]
Third Stage - Fine Density Floss (Mechanical) [Basket 2]
Fourth Stage - Bio-Balls (Biological) [Basket 3]
Fifth Stage - Ceramic Rings (Biological) [Basket 4]
Sixth Stage - Polishing Pad (Mechanical) [Basket 4]

This is in a Marineland C360 with 4 media baskets on a 36G tank

I have a couple of HOB's handy in case I need to throw one on the back of the tank for whatever reason for carbon polishing / medication removal.

If it were me, I would try your proposed setup without carbon and see how you like it. You may find that you don't need the carbon at all...


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## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

dam718 said:


> I'd get some opinions on Charcoal from the vets here before I went down that road. Some folks use it as a water polisher, so it's not all bad... But my understanding is that it can absorb things like medications and toxins and if not changed before it deactivates, it will leach those toxins right back into the water. I personally don't use any carbon at all, and my water is crystal clear...
> 
> Although on a much smaller scale, here is what I am running in my canister...
> 
> ...


My thinking was to include the scrub/charcoal canister as a part of the system in case. At minimum I was gonna throw a pleated filter of some sort in the can.
I appreciate the feedback. Again this is my first tank!


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## Akinaura (Nov 8, 2010)

The thing about charcoal is that there is currently a lot of debate in the hobby as a whole as to whether it's needed or not, and if it actually starts doing more harm than good.

Depending on what you plan to keep in the tank, peat granules may be a better option there to reduce the pH of the water naturally.

I personally have used a pleated filter (the pool kind) when I needed the extra filtering of particles. We stopped using charcoal a couple of years back because after a week or so, it's used up, so you are constantly replacing it. In both the canisters for my larger tanks, I just added extra sponges into the tray instead of carbon to work on water quality.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

I am also only using sponges of different densities in all of my filters. One thing about the bio balls, I just learned about this myself, but bio balls do nothing for you fully submerged. Also there's debate on their effectiveness vs. How often they need cleaned and if their worth it. IMO I would run sponges and have carbon handy for if you have odors, colors, meds that kind of stuff. There are tons of articles about pros and the many more con's of carbon on extended use.


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## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

hotwingz said:


> I am also only using sponges of different densities in all of my filters. One thing about the bio balls, I just learned about this myself, but bio balls do nothing for you fully submerged. Also there's debate on their effectiveness vs. How often they need cleaned and if their worth it. IMO I would run sponges and have carbon handy for if you have odors, colors, meds that kind of stuff. There are tons of articles about pros and the many more con's of carbon on extended use.


So how are bio balls supposed to work? By running water over them?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Chris&Nancy said:


> So how are bio balls supposed to work? By running water over them?


They are at their best(perform best) in wet dry applications(in the trickle section of sumps).If submerged I would think almost all bio materials are equall,but I know someone will say differently.The beneficial bacteria need space/surface to set up shop on.It really doesn't have to be anything fancy.


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## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> They are at their best(perform best) in wet dry applications(in the trickle section of sumps).If submerged I would think almost all bio materials are equall,but I know someone will say differently.The beneficial bacteria need space/surface to set up shop on.It really doesn't have to be anything fancy.


What would you recommend for bio media in a canister?


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## Akinaura (Nov 8, 2010)

coralbandit said:


> The beneficial bacteria need space/surface to set up shop on.It really doesn't have to be anything fancy.


+1 to this ^

As long as the bacteria are getting the area they need to grow on, are getting the nutrient loads to survive and thrive on, you have biological filtration regardless of how it's actually set up.

You can spend thousands of dollars on a fancy-schmancy filter, but in the end, it's still a filter because the parts to it are all the same. That's why a sponge filter and a canister filter do the same thing in regards to biological filtration. They both provide lots of surface for bacteria to grow and allow the bacteria to get access to the nutrients. It's just when you get to the other ways of filtration (chem/mech) they are used to achieve different results. (Sponges=low flow, no chem...canister=high flow, chemical filtration in many forms).


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Chris&Nancy said:


> What would you recommend for bio media in a canister?


I should be known as the sponge guy!I have tried all kinds of "bio media" and have used all kinds of filters.At this point,with 30+ years of fishkeeping and over 1,000 gallons of tanks,I use sponges.I don't use canisters anymore,but have nothing against them.Simple ceramic rings,noodles or anything to provide surface area(yes even bio balls) will work just fine.
Eventually all bio media may need to rinsed off to avoid clogging.The more prefilter material(mechanicals) the longer this can be avoided.When it comes time to rinse your bio it needs to be done in tank water(preferably in a bucket),and this is when the ease of sponges pays.They rinse simply,and are cheap.If your tank /filter produces nitrates and eliminates ammonia and nitrite,I don't think you can ask for more.So the "test" of "the best bio media" baffles me.Do the better medias produce more nitrate?I don't think so.Do they convert the ammonia and nitrite faster?I don't think so.I haven't had ammonia or nitrite in years in any of my cycled systems.They all have nitrates and the only cure for them is waterchanges.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

So many choices out there for media nowadays. Sponges, ceramic rings, ceramic balls, torf pellets, filter fiber, etc... Just about any type of mutil-surfaced item can be used when it comes down to it.


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## Chris&Nancy (Dec 25, 2013)

Just curious. If my bio canister flows upward back toward its return to the tank, can it benefit from an air stone or air supply?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I can't really picture what you are asking, but in general you don't want any type of air in your filter. It will cause it to make noise and potentially other issues could be caused by it.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ya don't add air to your canister! But if you want you can add an air line to the return tube. But add it at the top right before it goes back into the tank, and add a check valve. This is not necessary or overly advised. Any place extra for potential leaks stay away from. Plus you'll get more surface movement by putting the air stone in the tank.


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