# need help with cloudy water please



## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

i just set up my 50 gallon tank the other day, in this order i cleaned the tank, put in the gravel, put in the water, then got a heater yesterday.

i have been letting the filter run for the past couple of days and no problems have arised, the water was crystal clear the first few days but i woke up this morning and it was cloudy, i couldnt find any answers online at all.

this is not my first time owning a fish tank butt his is my first time seeing cloudy water.

i dont know if this will just clear up in a day or two or i have to do something to the water, and help would be appreciated, thank you


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Is there fish in there?It is most likely a bacterial bloom,which is part of the cycling process.If you have a test kit(Vials,not strips)test for ammonia,nitrates and nitritites.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> Is there fish in there?It is most likely a bacterial bloom,which is part of the cycling process.If you have a test kit(Vials,not strips)test for ammonia,nitrates and nitritites.


no fish yet, i wanted to filter for a few days to make sure something like this wouldnt happen. the pet store said i can bring a cup of water to them to be tested so i can do that


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Possibly ammonia in your tap? Fairly common. What type of filter do you have?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Without a source of ammonia to begin your nitrogen cycle, I'm stumped. My initial guess would have been a bacteria bloom, still another guess would be a green water algae problem, but one that might hold water (haha) would be whether you washed your filter inserts before sticking them in the filter. If you didn't wash the inserts, dust (especially from the carbon) and other particulates that are byproducts of the insert manufacturing process will be washed into your tank.

In any event, you need to do something to start cycling your tank. Read the following link for an explanation on what a "cycle" is:

The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

In a nutshell, fish generate waste that decomposes to form ammonia. Nitrosomona bacteria colonize your tank and process the ammonia into nitrite, then nitrospira bacteria colonize and turn the nitrite into nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are poisonous to your fish in concentrations higher than 1 part per million (ppm), and can outright kill your fish if the concentrations are high enough. Nitrate can build up in your tank to concentrations of 80 ppm or higher before they start to adversely affect your fish. Weekly partial water changes and live plants that consume nitrates are the only ways to lower your nitrate concentration.

With established bacteria colonies and an already running nitrogen cycle, addition of your fish is easy. Without an established cycle, the fish will generate waste which generates ammonia which kills your fish.

To start the cycle, add a source of ammonia OTHER than fish (examples include daily dosages of pure ammonia, a raw piece of seafood, or daily dosings of fish flake food). This will generate ammonia and provide the "seeding" for your cycle. Secondly, add things like dirty/used filter media (potentially from your pet store), live plants, used structures and/or plastic plants, and "bacteria-in-a-bottle" tank starters like Tetra SafeStart. All of these things will help introduce the nitrosomona and nitrospira bacterium to your tank and will speed up the establishment of your cycle.

Get a water testing kit as well. Our personal favorite is the API Master Freshwater liquid titration test kit. It contains testing for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH (all the essentials). This will help you track your tank's cycle establishment process. It will be denoted by an initial ammonia spike, then the nitrosomona bacteria will colonize and this will be indicated by a nitrite spike and a dropping ammonia concentration. Then nitrospira bacteria will colonize and your nitrites will drop, your nitrates will climb, and at this time do daily 50% partial water changes (PWC's) to lower the nitrates in preparation for adding fish. Depending on the addition of used stuff and tank starters, you may see all three spikes at the same time. Your cycle will be ideally established when you have 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite, 20-40 ppm nitrate. Also, don't forget to remove the ammonia source before adding fish. When handled properly, the establishment of a nitrogen cycle can take less than 2 weeks, but at the very minimum more than a week. Only water testing will tell.

For a partial water change, you'll need a siphon hose with gravel vacuum attachment, 1-4 clean large-volume buckets (Homer Buckets are best, and these buckets must be clean and unused - no use of cleaners, or you risk adding things to your tank that you don't want in there), and a bottle of tap water conditioner (also called dechlorinator). To do a water change, siphon 25%-50% of the water in your tank into empty buckets. If you're going to change filter media, wash the media in the buckets of old tank water before adding them to the filter. Empty the buckets, fill with fresh tap water. Use your hand to approximate the temperature between the tap and tank (usually accurate to between a degree or two). Add the tap water conditioner to the buckets as they are filling, not to the tank. Lastly, siphon the water back into the tank, don't just dump. It's good practice to siphon back in because dumping when there's live fish in there will shock the fish and might outright kill them, from pH, temperature, and other sudden changes they are not equipped to handle.

Welcome to the hobby!


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

ive been looking around the internet now that i know it bacterial bloom and mostly everyone says just to wait it out and adding chemicals or anything will just reset hte cycle and itll come back, so how long would it take for the bacterial bloom to go away in a 50 gallon tank?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

You can only reset the cycle if you have started it.Without an ammonia source as mentioned above,then its definately not cycled.Even if it does have ammonia in your tap,this will help the cycle,but in no way finish it in as little time as you have been set up.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

so if the water is safe to put fish in it after getting it tested the way it is now, the fish waste will balance it out?


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

it looks to be a bit more clear than it did when i woke so thats a good thing, should i change out the filter pads when its done or keep them in for the rest of the month?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Well, yes to a point.You would be cycling the tank with fish.Basically you will be adding a source of ammonia that will build the beneficial bacteria up.In some cases its fine to do this,if the fish is a hardy species and you change the water every time you are supposed to,and checking the levels.If you want to add fish,do so,one or two,once a week.Keep an eye on the ammonia.Also make sure to use very hardy fish,like the zebra danios or the glo fih(Same things as zebras)If you want more sensitive fish,i highly suggest you do fishless cycling to make sure the tank is stable.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Don't change anything in your filter until the cycle has been completed.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Don't change anything in your filter until the cycle has been completed.


how do you know when the cycle is done, just when the water is clear again?


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

one more question, what kind of water should i use to replace evaporated water in between the 25% water replacements, and also what kind of water should i use to replace the 25% that i take out?


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

I suggest adding some sort of live bacteria if it is available to you. Do not worry about getting it perfect at first. Just get your cycle established. If you add fish it will add ammonia and the bacteria will form. It can take normally 3-6 weeks to be safe to add more fish. You're never done cycling, your nitrogen cycle simply starts in your tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Jack Harkness said:


> how do you know when the cycle is done, just when the water is clear again?


The process is completed when all of your beneficial bacteria has been formed. the only way to test this is with a test kit....preferrably a liquid type. It also will not start until there is some form of ammonia in the tank. Usually this is what fish provide, unless you provide an alternate source and get the cycle started fishless.

For any water added to the tank, all you need is water from your tap that has been treated.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

thanks a lot for all your help guys, ill definitely be back for more help if needed


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> The process is completed when all of your beneficial bacteria has been formed. the only way to test this is with a test kit....preferrably a liquid type. It also will not start until there is some form of ammonia in the tank. Usually this is what fish provide, unless you provide an alternate source and get the cycle started fishless.
> 
> For any water added to the tank, all you need is water from your tap that has been treated.


what about my filtered fridge water? would that be a safer thing to do or just because the evaporation isnt really too much to shock the fish if any evaporation is replaced with tap water


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

No need to do anything special unless your tap water is not good.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

now that the bacterial bloom is gone and the water is clear again, im gonna head up to petco and test the water because they do it for free there, and if its good enough im gonna start off with 1 or 2 glo fish, i really want to get angel fish as well, thats mainly why i set up the tank, besides koi fish but theyre saying koi will eventually outgrow the tank.

are angel fish hardy fish like the glo fish as mentioned to put in there first?


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

what about plant life? i saw petco was selling live plants as well as the plastics and i came across these biorb plants on amazon for an amazingly cheap price, if i got live plants or plastic will they effect tank as so much that i have to wait to put fish in after putting in plants or can i put them in at the same time or what?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Do yourself a favor and get a liquid test kit. Petco more than likely uses strips and they are not accurate.

If you want to cycle with fish, don't do it with Angels. Get a few of the glo-fish if that is what you want.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a liquid test kit. Petco more than likely uses strips and they are not accurate.
> 
> If you want to cycle with fish, don't do it with Angels. Get a few of the glo-fish if that is what you want.


What am I testing for? ph, ammonia, nitrates amd nitrites?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes. these are things that you are most concerned about, especially during the starting of a cycle.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. $35, good for over 100 tests, and very accurate. Only downside is it's a little more involved to use than strips (takes about 20 minutes, vs. less than 5). MUCH better bang for your buck though.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. $35, good for over 100 tests, and very accurate. Only downside is it's a little more involved to use than strips (takes about 20 minutes, vs. less than 5). MUCH better bang for your buck though.


ill check that out on amazon now, i went to petco before work to get my water tested and they did the liquid and strip tests and the water came back perfect on both so i picked up 2 angel fish, two striped catfish for my girlfriend which she name stripey and catfish, and two neon blue guaramis, those things are awesome, id love to get a bunch of schooling fish once i put some plants in the tank


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

and the fish food bottle i bought mustve had a huge typo on it saying to feed the fish 3 times a day for how much they can eat in 3 minutes, while in my experience in having fish that i should only feed them once every 2 days for how much they can eat in 2 minutes (that happened to also be what the guy at petco said)

probably a marketing scam to get me to go through the food fast enough to just keep buying it


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. $35, good for over 100 tests, and very accurate.
> 
> found one on amazon for 25 dollars and that's including shipping, so next paycheck ill probably buy it, does it come with pH up and pH down and all that good stuff as well or is it just for testing?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Jack Harkness said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > Get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. $35, good for over 100 tests, and very accurate.
> ...


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Jack Harkness said:
> 
> 
> > You don't want pH up and down. Phosphate buffers like that are only a temporary fix, and most of the fish out there can handle basic water (elevated pH), so with the up and down stuff you would just be wasting your time, and might downright wreck your tank if you add too much.
> ...


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

once again, ive come up with another question, when it comes time to change filter pads do i change both pads or just one so it keeps some of the beneficial bacteria on one pad and theres one fresh pad in it, or is it safe to just completely switch to new pads?

its a marineland bio-wheel, power filter penguin


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I never understand why people new to the hobby are so willing to buy all kinds of fish, yet are reluctant to buy their own testing equipment. Baffles me....

Petco usually uses test stirps when they test water. Therefore, their testing of YOUR water is more than likely not telling the full truth. Strips are well known for being inaccurate....no so much inaccurate, just not precise enough to tell you what you need to know.

Do yourself and your fish a big favor and get your own liquid test kit. It will pay dividends.

Do not change any filter cartridges until your tank has finished cycling.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I never understand why people new to the hobby are so willing to buy all kinds of fish, yet are reluctant to buy their own testing equipment. Baffles me....
> 
> Petco usually uses test stirps when they test water. Therefore, their testing of YOUR water is more than likely not telling the full truth. Strips are well known for being inaccurate....no so much inaccurate, just not precise enough to tell you what you need to know.
> 
> ...


i just ordered the one mentioned on amazon, how expensive do the chemicals get to fix nitrite, nitrate and ammonia levels? i still cant find in the description about the test kit coming with the things to lower the nitrite, nitrate and ammonia levels, the cycle is done when everything reaches 0 and the pH is at an acceptable level?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You control those by doing regular water changes...for the most part. Stay away from chemicals.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> You control those by doing regular water changes...for the most part. Stay away from chemicals.


i bought a bottle of dechlorinator for my 20-25% water changes, everyone i have asked said this was essential if my tap water isnt treated with anything


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you want to call that a chemical, then okay....that should be the only one you use.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> If you want to call that a chemical, then okay....that should be the only one you use.


im gonna get that test kit, and one more thing, on the bottle of dechlorinator it says to use 1 tsp for every 41.66 gallons, so when i do my 25% water replacement every month do i just use enough of the dechlorinator for the 25% i put in or use enough for the whole tank since the tap water mixes in with the tank water.


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## peteyboyny (Oct 18, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Without a source of ammonia to begin your nitrogen cycle, I'm stumped. My initial guess would have been a bacteria bloom, still another guess would be a green water algae problem, but one that might hold water (haha) would be whether you washed your filter inserts before sticking them in the filter. If you didn't wash the inserts, dust (especially from the carbon) and other particulates that are byproducts of the insert manufacturing process will be washed into your tank.
> 
> In any event, you need to do something to start cycling your tank. Read the following link for an explanation on what a "cycle" is:
> 
> ...


Wow...that's some nutshell! LOL But very informative.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Jack Harkness said:


> im gonna get that test kit, and one more thing, on the bottle of dechlorinator it says to use 1 tsp for every 41.66 gallons, so when i do my 25% water replacement every month do i just use enough of the dechlorinator for the 25% i put in or use enough for the whole tank since the tap water mixes in with the tank water.


Some products like Prime say you can overdose, but to be safe it is best to put just enough conditioner for the water you are replacing.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Some products like Prime say you can overdose, but to be safe it is best to put just enough conditioner for the water you are replacing.


i did the math, and if i did it right its a third of a teaspoon, 1 tsp for 41.66 gallons, i have a 50 gallon tank, replace 25% of that, thats 12.5 gallons, 12.5 gallons goes into 41.66 gallons 3.33 times, so 3.33 into one, so a little more than a third of a teaspoon.

feel free to double check that if you will


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Jack Harkness said:


> i did the math, and if i did it right its a third of a teaspoon, 1 tsp for 41.66 gallons, i have a 50 gallon tank, replace 25% of that, thats 12.5 gallons, 12.5 gallons goes into 41.66 gallons 3.33 times, so 3.33 into one, so a little more than a third of a teaspoon.
> 
> feel free to double check that if you will


I'm sure you are close enough...doesn't have to be too precise. A little over may be okay. I just try to be pretty close.


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I'm sure you are close enough...doesn't have to be too precise. A little over may be okay. I just try to be pretty close.


thanks for the help on that


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## Jack Harkness (Jan 20, 2011)

so much for catfish being bottom dwellers, i have 2 catfish in there and one of them likes to lay on the end of the heater where knob is to turn it up and down and the other just swims around and lays in any of the corners


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