# Ammonia expert needed



## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Hi thanks for reading..
But I have a problem with ammonia in my (2) 10 gallon tanks..
About 2 weeks ago I did an API test on ammonia and nitrite and they were both at 0. Now ammonia has spiked up to about .5 to 1.0 ppm... I always do water changes every 2 weeks about 3 gallons to each and I change their carbon pads as well.. I got neon tetras in one and the other with mollies and barbs.. The mollies are swimming up and down the glass for the first time and my barbs and tetras are swimming normally... What could be causing this ammonia problem? I feed these fish small amounts so they eat it all, now I got ammonia problems? I always condition the water with aqua safe plus yellow bottle and let it sit in my 5 gallon capped bucket for a couple of days before I throw it in the tank... What am I missing? None of my fish have died since Ive gotten these last month..


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## sion342 (Jul 31, 2011)

Did u cycle the tank?


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes. Left them empty for about a month and a half with the filter running and slowly added fish. One by one every couple of days and they're swimming fine...all of them are swimming fine.. Just the mollies, they're crazy. 2 of them calmed down a little...but the other is breathing pretty rapidly by the look of her gills..she's pregnant too so idk if that has anything to do with it.. Never in my years of experience I've had this particular problem.. :/ do any sort of ammonia detoxifier liquid work?


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

The pregnant Molly kind of struggles to swim around since she's pretty big..idk if that's got anything to do with her crazy breathing..and idk if mollies are this active because when I always watch mollies in tanks they're always active...but I've never had any active fish in my fish owning experience..always lazy fish like loaches, plecos, angelfish, etc..but I'm still worried about the ammonia reading.. :/


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Not only that but the male Molly is very aggressive he chases both of them around but the one breathing rapidly really gets it... What is weird is, if I raise my hand above the surface, the Molly stops breathing rapidly and waits for me drop in some food...after I remove my hand from the top, she stops her crazy breathing...really weird..


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure what is going on lately.....cycling does NOT refer to letting a tank run empty. It refers to the nitrogen cycle. You might want to read up on it. It wil take you 5min and you'll understand what is going on or going to happen in your tank. The nitrogen cycle does not start until there is a source of ammonia in the tank. This is what your fish are providing. So the day you added your first fish, is day 1 of your "cycle". The cycle will usually take 3-6wks.

You have ammonia present and your fish are suffering. The remedy is a water change. How long ago were fish introduced?


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ammonia is generated in a fish tank through the decomposition of protien. The Protien is usually from food or dead fish. Don't feed your fish for a few days and your ammonia should drop. In a normal fish tank high ammonia readings are only temporary, they rapidly cycle into Nitrite and Nitrate. Make sure you have good filtration and aeriation. Remember that Mollies do best in a high ph and hard water environment.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Well I just did a water change today.. Ammonia was present after the water change...but the fish are swimming normal now.. It's just that ammonia reading. I know I dont over feed them because I feed them small portions smaller than my pinky finger nail, nothing ever touches the gravel. Even if it does, my Pleco is my last line of defense. I'm pretty sure the cycle didn't complete.. I usually cycle with just a driftwood and a filter running for about 2 months and nothing ever pops up like this..
Do you guys predict any fatalities within this cycle? How long will this cycle last if it is a cycle? Damn it has never happened to me... ):


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Running the filter for 2 months in the tank will do nothing if no fish are in it. You have to have a source of ammonia in the tank for it to start a cycle.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Well if it is in fact cycling, are these mollies capable of surviving? The barbs and tetras look perfectly fine I hope they make it...but that one Molly seems to be breathing a little too rapidly...I'm not sure if it's due to the harassment of the male..


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Update: ammonia shot down to 0. Now nitrite is pretty high. Fish are normal, no signs of lethargic swimming. Tank is too cloudy... Idk if I should do water change...


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## sion342 (Jul 31, 2011)

Now your really cycling ,another water change will low de nitrates ,one thing when you gonna change filter media, don't change all at the same time,because you wanna save the beneficial bacteria other ways you have to cycle again. But for now keep an eye on the fishes and wait doing water changes every day at least 25% to 50%.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

stop adding food until nitrItes drop down.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What is "pretty high"? If the values are higher than 1ppm, I would do a 25% water change. If the values are 3ppm or higher a 50% water change....cutting feeding will help, but will not make it go away.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> What is "pretty high"? If the values are higher than 1ppm, I would do a 25% water change. If the values are 3ppm or higher a 50% water change....cutting feeding will help, but will not make it go away.


Values are higher than 3ppm.. I did a 30% water change, will do a 50% tomorrow. Then I'll retest. So no feeding at all? Won't that make the fish weaker to fight this cycle?


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

sion342 said:


> Now your really cycling ,another water change will low de nitrates ,one thing when you gonna change filter media, don't change all at the same time,because you wanna save the beneficial bacteria other ways you have to cycle again. But for now keep an eye on the fishes and wait doing water changes every day at least 25% to 50%.


I just changed the cotton pad filled with carbon little less than a week ago when I did a pwc, so I guess I'll be good with the same carbon and cotton for the rest of the cycle? Fish look fine so far, I guess I'll keep doing the daily pwc at 25% and see if that cuts down the cloudiness


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> stop adding food until nitrItes drop down.


It won't make the fish get weaker and die? Nitrites are pretty high...so I should keep doing these water changes at 25% ? It won't delay the cycling process?


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## sion342 (Jul 31, 2011)

Skeeter91 said:


> It won't make the fish get weaker and die? Nitrites are pretty high...so I should keep doing these water changes at 25% ? It won't delay the cycling process?


As far I know not really,Just get the nitrites little bit down to keep fishes ok.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have left my fish for 10 days while on vacation with no food. They will be fine.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks for the great advice. I'm just doing a 25-50 % water change every day depending how cloudy the tank looks.. I hope this nitrite stage ends pretty soon...these water changes are a bit tiring lol


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Update: so when I started this forum, ammonia was very high and dark green according to API test kit, at 8 ppm. Ammonia dropped completely to 0 after 2 days from that reading. Now since then, nitrite is at 5+++ppm and it won't go down at ALL. I know it's been 2 days so far but I feel worried for the poor puppies, I think both female mollies are shimming and my Pleco is breathing rapidly. Most forums day do not do water changes at all but I feel bad for these guys suffering nitrite so high....


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

It sounds like your cycle was not complete and you changed your filter media at a critical point. 

I ended up doing a fish-in cycle with my 10 gallon tank due to lack of knowledge of how to properly cycle and found myself in exactly the same predicament. My nitrites were so high they were off the charts hence the maxed-out test readings even after 50% water changes. You will hear a lot of mixed reviews on the use of Tetra Safe Start in your tank, whether it works, whether the bacteria is permanent or not... What I can tell you is that I put it in my tank (the whole bottle that says it treats 10-30 gallons) in my tank and within 12 hours my nitrites were at zero. I tested daily for a couple weeks afterward and never had any high readings at all after that. Maybe it only helped my tank along until the natural bacteria were able to meet the demand of the fish but it worked and may have saved my fish. It certainly couldn't hurt to try. If not, your only option if you want to save the fish is to keep up with the water changes. Not changing the water is not an option if you want to save the fish, as the nitrites will most likely kill them if they continue to climb.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Cadiedid said:


> It sounds like your cycle was not complete and you changed your filter media at a critical point.
> 
> I ended up doing a fish-in cycle with my 10 gallon tank due to lack of knowledge of how to properly cycle and found myself in exactly the same predicament. My nitrites were so high they were off the charts hence the maxed-out test readings even after 50% water changes. You will hear a lot of mixed reviews on the use of Tetra Safe Start in your tank, whether it works, whether the bacteria is permanent or not... What I can tell you is that I put it in my tank (the whole bottle that says it treats 10-30 gallons) in my tank and within 12 hours my nitrites were at zero. I tested daily for a couple weeks afterward and never had any high readings at all after that. Maybe it only helped my tank along until the natural bacteria were able to meet the demand of the fish but it worked and may have saved my fish. It certainly couldn't hurt to try. If not, your only option if you want to save the fish is to keep up with the water changes. Not changing the water is not an option if you want to save the fish, as the nitrites will most likely kill them if they continue to climb.


Great advice! Did you buy that bottle at a petco or petsmart? If I change the water daily, it won't kill the bacteria? The tank was fine for the first 2 weeks and then when I started this thread, it's when the tank started getting cloudy. Saw the ammonia reading right after my weekly pwc, got cloudy, started this thread. Yes I changed my filter media, cotton filled with carbon cartridge, during my weekly pwc right before I started this thread. I feel like I'm stuck at the nitrite stage and I'm missing something.. Because I see it in the fish with signs of stress. My other tank with neon tetras spiked on both ammonia and nitrite but now it's gone completely.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

I have 2 bottles, kordon amquel, one for ammonia detoxifying, and another as a water conditioner. The ammonia detoxifier says it clears nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate. I've used these for years but I've never tried using them while the tank is cycling.. Maybe i should give it a try just like the tetra safestart


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

i uploaded a photo so you guys can see how foggy the water is.. its foggier in person @[email protected]


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

I got the Tetra Safe Start at Petsmart but you can find it most places. The water changes will not harm your bacteria colonies because most of the bacteria adheres to the "stuff" in your tank (gravel, filter media, ornaments etc.). Only a small propertion of your bacteria are in the water itself. The water changes will dilute the nitrites and the bacteria in your tank will work on what is left. 

Don't use the ammonia detoxifying chemicals. Besides further upsetting the natural balance of your tank, they will make it impossible to tell what your ammonia levels really are. Simply put, the chemicals break the ammonia into a less toxic form of ammonia that will still show up with testing so then you won't know whether the levels of dangerous ammonia are still high. Most of the mods on here and other experienced contributers warn to add as little as possible in the way of chemicals and meds to your tanks, with the exception of water conditioners to take the chlorine and chloramine out of your tap water. If you keep your tank in balance with fish, bacteria and plants, the chemicals should not be needed and often do more harm than good.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Chemicals during a cycling period is just asking for it to stall and take longer. Do a water change if either ammonia or nitrite get over 1ppm. Otherwise, I would stop worrying about the cloudiness of your tank. If it is a green cludiness, different story. Then you can shut down the light to kil it off. Leave it. One day you will wake up and it will be clear. It is a fairly unreasonable expectation for your tank to be crystal clear when you know what is going on inside the water. Just have patience and let it run its course. Time is the only fix. Stop thinking chemicals or any other magical product - they don't exist.


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Chemicals during a cycling period is just asking for it to stall and take longer. Do a water change if either ammonia or nitrite get over 1ppm. Otherwise, I would stop worrying about the cloudiness of your tank. If it is a green cludiness, different story. Then you can shut down the light to kil it off. Leave it. One day you will wake up and it will be clear. It is a fairly unreasonable expectation for your tank to be crystal clear when you know what is going on inside the water. Just have patience and let it run its course. Time is the only fix. Stop thinking chemicals or any other magical product - they don't exist.



I second what jrman83 says and should mention that his advice to myself and others has brought me far in this hobby. The water changes are going to be your #1 line of defense in keeping your fish alive through this cycle. The cloudiness (if not algae) should subside once your cycle is under control. The detoxifying chemicals can rob your fish of oxygen and just upset the balance of your tank. I don't consider the SafeStart a chemical (it's really just bacteria to seed your tank with) although I know many on here don't like to add anything to their tank other than dechlorinator to their tap water and ferts for their plants. IME though, I had done daily water changes for several days and was unable to get my nitrites below 5 ppm even immediately after the water changes and that was with holding the food for the couple of days before I added the SafeStart. So, for me it was a last ditch effort as I really did not want to risk losing any of my daughter's fish and it worked out beautifully. 

(In the future I will be doing fishless cycling so hopefully will never have to use it again!)


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Perfect. You guys are amazing!! I'm going to just keep up with the water changes daily, and just wait and see what happens.. Thank you guys I'll update


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Skeeter91 said:


> Perfect. You guys are amazing!! I'm going to just keep up with the water changes daily, and just wait and see what happens.. Thank you guys I'll update


Don't do daily unless your readings require it. Only do it if ammonia or nitrite gets above 1ppm.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Don't do daily unless your readings require it. Only do it if ammonia or nitrite gets above 1ppm.


Alright. If my nitrite reads around 2 to 5 ppm, and ammonia 0. Am I on the right path?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sure, but you need to do a water change of at least 40-50%.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Update: did the 40-50% water change and 5 hours later, my nitrite went down to .25ppm from a 5ppm. I'm gonna test my nitrite one more time to tomorrow morning when I wake up and see if it's finally going down. My nitrAtes are at 5-10 ppm. It's at least 5ppm higher than what it was before the water change. Hopefully it's finally on the right track


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Update: both ammonia and nitrite are at 0 now. The water is still very foggy, and nitrates are around 5-10 ppm. Fish are showing signs of stress...hmmmm


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm not really sure what's going on... Those numbers are great but you did mention an awful lot of chemicals earlier on... Could just be those that are messing with your fish and water clarity.... I'd sit tight at this point and check your levels daily and do pwc as needed. And only add dechlorinator. No more other chemicals. Hope this works out for you. Keep us updated.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Cadiedid said:


> I'm not really sure what's going on... Those numbers are great but you did mention an awful lot of chemicals earlier on... Could just be those that are messing with your fish and water clarity.... I'd sit tight at this point and check your levels daily and do pwc as needed. And only add dechlorinator. No more other chemicals. Hope this works out for you. Keep us updated.


Yeah I have A LOT of chemicals but I use them when necessary. I didn't add any to this cycling tank. I was taking everyone's advice on this forum and it worked out great! My tank dropped all levels, nitrate is still around 5-10 ppm, and the water is clearing up! The mollys have stopped shimming now and the sepae tetras have gotten back their colors in their fins.. What a good day  I'll just do 1 more water change this weekend to clean up excessive poop that builds up on corners


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Congrats on successfully establishing the nitrogen cycle in your tank, and sorry it took learning the hard way and a few deaths. We've all screwed up at one point or another (me? multiple times!). I might have missed it, but did you ever end up using Tetra SafeStart? I use it all the time, but that's just me.

Also, what kind of pleco do you have? If it's a common pleco, you might want to rehome or donate it, because they get MASSIVE (up to 2' long). Also, have you given any thought to live plants? And what are you using as a filter? Under-gravel filter as well or no?

And lastly, what are you using to test your water? In general, we really don't like the test strips on account of their inaccuracy. The API Master Freshwater Test Kit is a LOT better (from personal experience) both accuracy-wise and cost-wise (steep initial expenditure, but the tests last you FOREVER). So I would use up the test strips if you use them, and go get the API kit or a similar liquid kit.

Just my thoughts & suggestions...


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> Congrats on successfully establishing the nitrogen cycle in your tank, and sorry it took learning the hard way and a few deaths. We've all screwed up at one point or another (me? multiple times!). I might have missed it, but did you ever end up using Tetra SafeStart? I use it all the time, but that's just me.
> 
> Also, what kind of pleco do you have? If it's a common pleco, you might want to rehome or donate it, because they get MASSIVE (up to 2' long). Also, have you given any thought to live plants? And what are you using as a filter? Under-gravel filter as well or no?
> 
> ...


No deaths so far. My only problem is my ph... It fluctuates! My tap water tests for around 7.8+++ and after I put it in my tank, it goes down to 6.4 or even less!!! This transition takes about less than a week...I can't find a reason why my ph drops so rapidly in little time...theres no driftwood or live plants.

My Pleco is a sailfin I believe...it's brownish and his dots stand out a lot compared to a common Pleco. I feed him veggies and algae wafers once or twice a week. I used to own a common Pleco, for 4 years and barely grew 1-2". But maybe he was a dwarf.. My lfs always has exotic fish.

My ONLY problem now is my ph that drops rapidly after a water Change...tap water is 7.8+. and when I add in the water, ph raises to 6.4 from 6.0 and then drops down again to 6.0 in less than a week. I understand any change to ph is bad but this is something the water is missing.. I'm guessing the hardness is really low... Or alkalinity is wrong... Anyone had an experience like this? I use API liquid test btw


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You'll need to buffer your pH. Grab some cichlid sand (or crushed coral) and put a bag in your filter. Alternatively, as a quick fix, baking soda (calcium bicarbonate) will raise your KH and pH, but you'll need to add more every time you add it


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> You'll need to buffer your pH. Grab some cichlid sand (or crushed coral) and put a bag in your filter. Alternatively, as a quick fix, baking soda (calcium bicarbonate) will raise your KH and pH, but you'll need to add more every time you add it


Crushed Coral you say? Lfs sell crushed coral? Baking soda oooooo. So you think this will fix my fluctuating ph? Because my tap water ph is always high, but it doesn't seem to make a difference in my tank...it always lowers no matter how much I add...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Skeeter91 said:


> Crushed Coral you say? Lfs sell crushed coral? Baking soda oooooo. So you think this will fix my fluctuating ph? Because my tap water ph is always high, but it doesn't seem to make a difference in my tank...it always lowers no matter how much I add...


Your water lacks the buffers to hold your ph at a given value. Crushed coral is much easier than baking soda, as it doesn't need to be added every time after your water changes.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Your water lacks the buffers to hold your ph at a given value. Crushed coral is much easier than baking soda, as it doesn't need to be added every time after your water changes.


Wow. You guys are amazing. I can tell that the ph is so low, it burns the fins of the poor fellas. Their fins look a bit torn...like some sort of erosion...Its not fungus or an infection, because every time the ph goes up to around 6.4 after a water change, their fins look much better..after 2-5 days, ph drops and their fins begin to erode again.. I'm pretty sure the male isn't biting the female mollys on their side fins.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you got the crushed coral route add just a small bit at a time. You can drop directly in your tank or get a filter bag and keep it in your filter. You need to play around with it and test. Don't just throw a bunch in the tank. I can't remember the size of your tank or I might could give you a start.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> If you got the crushed coral route add just a small bit at a time. You can drop directly in your tank or get a filter bag and keep it in your filter. You need to play around with it and test. Don't just throw a bunch in the tank. I can't remember the size of your tank or I might could give you a start.


My tank size is 10 gallons. And my filter is a HOB and it powers up to 30 gallons supposedly. If I decide to drop in the coral will the fish consume it?


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