# Cycling Frustration



## Sprecher2112 (Nov 7, 2013)

I've been frustrated with high ammonia levels in my mother's 20 gallon freshwater tank for over a month. Over time (fish or fishless) doesn't the aquariums beneficial bacteria take over and lower the ammonia? I would appreciate any and all advice.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

How about a little more info.

Is the tank stocked? What kind of filter is on it? What kind of fish, if any?

BB does usually take over but there's a lot of variables here: how often does the water get changed and in what amount, how often is the substrate cleaned of fish poop, etc. 

Give us some more info and we will try to diagnose your issue


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

How are your nitrite levels?

The particular bacteria that rids you of ammonia will metabolize that ammonia into nitrites. If you are seeing high ammonia levels with no nitrites, that would indicate to me that you have little to no bacteria in the tank.

Are you properly dechlorinating the water with a water conditioner like Prime or Stress Coat?

Chlorine / Chloramine found in most municipal tap water sources will kill your bacteria colony. And thus, prevent you from ever really cycling your tank

This would be in addition to the questions from MriGuy above


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## Radar (Dec 13, 2013)

About a month ago I purchased a Aqueon 26g kit. I set it up and ran it for about one week. Then added four small fish and monitored the water chemistry daily. After about one week with no real rise in ammonia,nitrites or nitrates I decided to add more fish and a seeded sponge from AngelPlus. Within three days my tank cycled. I also have a ten gallon tank that I am trying to "fishless cycle" it has been two weeks adding 1/2 tsp daily with ammonia over 5ppm. I still have no nitrites readings and took a nitrate test today just to see if anything reading. Zero nitrates. My own preference on just this small scale experiment is that if I am starting a new tank I would go the seeded sponge with small number of fish, watching your ammonia until cycled. I know the argument for fishless cycling, but if your a beginner setting up your first tank it could get pretty frustrating, not the case in my situation, to sit and wait for weeks possibly not seeing much progress. Still believe you can do fish in cycling safely if you stock slowly and watch your chemistry daily. Better yet try to seed with active sponge along with slowly stocking your tank. Just my opinion which along with $1.50 gets you a cup of coffee.


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## Sprecher2112 (Nov 7, 2013)

dam718 said:


> How are your nitrite levels?
> 
> The particular bacteria that rids you of ammonia will metabolize that ammonia into nitrites. If you are seeing high ammonia levels with no nitrites, that would indicate to me that you have little to no bacteria in the tank.
> 
> ...


I'm adding the correct level of water conditioner (for Chlorine/Chloramine). Plus adding API Stress Coat. Does that cause the problem? Adding the beneficial bacteria too soon? (potentially killing of the BB?)


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Prime is what most of us use from what I've read. It will not harm the BB. We still haven't gotten much info from you about your tank....


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## Sprecher2112 (Nov 7, 2013)

MriGuy85 said:


> How about a little more info.
> 
> Is the tank stocked? What kind of filter is on it? What kind of fish, if any?
> 
> ...


Yes, it's stocked with 5 Neon Tetras, 5 Glolight Tetras and 1 small Bristlenose Pleco. The filter is a Aqueon QuietFlow 30.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for info.
What are you considering high ammonia(none is safe,but)?
How often have you changed water and how much when you did?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Your stocking level is great and filtration is as well.

So the questions back to you are:

What levels of ammonia are you seeing
Have you seen any nitrItes or nitrAtes
How often do you change water
How much water do you change when you do
How often are you siphoning the crud off the bottom (poop, uneaten food)


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## Sprecher2112 (Nov 7, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> Thanks for info.
> What are you considering high ammonia(none is safe,but)?
> How often have you changed water and how much when you did?


Consistently at 2-4 ppm, but I have seen readings as high as 8 ppm. I do weekly (no less than 50%) water changes. Last weekend I did a 100% water change, rinsed all the gravel and fake plants/décor. For two days the readings were 0 ppm, but now are again on the rise. So today (at Radar's recommendation) I ordered a seeded sponge filter from AngelPlus.


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## Sprecher2112 (Nov 7, 2013)

MriGuy85 said:


> Your stocking level is great and filtration is as well.
> 
> So the questions back to you are:
> 
> ...


Ammonia readings are from 2 to 8 ppm.
Nitrite and Nitrates haven't fluctuated from 0 ppm. 
Weekly water changes (no less than 50%).
Siphoning with every water change.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Could you be overfeeding?Is there food leftover from feedings?All food should be eate in 2-3 minutes.Besides something for the pleco none should even really hit bottom with the guys you got(they are pretty active eaters in the mid-upper level.If food is settling on the bottom it should be removed and you feed less.
Often very light feeding is recommended for fish in cycles.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Coralbandit (one of these days ill remember your name), would you be at all concerned about the massive cleaning he did? 

Also sprecher2112, you haven't been touching your filter pads have you?

Those should only ever be very lightly swished in removed tanked water when they get real nasty looking. Don't change them unless they're falling apart and don't be too rough on them when you clean them. That will disturb your BB.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

50% a week is all good.But when cycling" fish in" the test should dictate water change timming and amount.Ammonia and nitrites are best kept from going over 1ppm.You're not rinsing filter pads in tap are you? that would basically kill the BB everytime.
Tom


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sprecher2112 said:


> Consistently at 2-4 ppm, but I have seen readings as high as 8 ppm. I do weekly (no less than 50%) water changes. Last weekend I did a 100% water change, rinsed all the gravel and fake plants/décor. For two days the readings were 0 ppm, but now are again on the rise. So today (at Radar's recommendation) I ordered a seeded sponge filter from AngelPlus.


This much cleaning on an established tank can be bad. The bacteria attaches itself to things in your tank. Take those out and clean them and you kill the bacteria. I hope when you say you rinsed the gravel you don't mean you removed it all and washed it all out. In the 6 or so years I have had tanks, I have never done this. A mild vacuuming is okay, but your tank will take forever to cycle with what you are doing. I would guess that if you have been doing this often, it has been a case of the tank moving 2 steps forward, and then one back.


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## Radar (Dec 13, 2013)

Sprecher2112 said:


> Consistently at 2-4 ppm, but I have seen readings as high as 8 ppm. I do weekly (no less than 50%) water changes. Last weekend I did a 100% water change, rinsed all the gravel and fake plants/décor. For two days the readings were 0 ppm, but now are again on the rise. So today (at Radar's recommendation) I ordered a seeded sponge filter from AngelPlus.


I believe you will get results with this filter. I was cycled in less than three days after installing the AngelPlus filter. I then did a 50% water change and double dosed with Prime. I plan to do water changes of 50% no less than weekly going forward and for now still monitoring water chemistry to keep check of that. I am not a fan of cleaning gravel, decorations and filter media for all the reasons stated . I will be rinsing my media in old water taken out on PWC's. My guess is that after putting seeded filter in you will put a check on the ammonia in meantime keep up with water changes daily if necessary to do this.


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