# Sump setup



## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

Hello, 
Been looking for answers on sumps. Couldn't find anything.

I don't want to drill any holes. Is it possible to buy two identical pumps and just pump water to and from your sump. I see others use gravity and siphons, but no mention of just pumping.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

update.

If you don't suggest using two pumps, do you know of any cheap places to get pre fabricated over/wall overflow


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

It is not a problem if both pumps are rated the same ie 40 gph and 40 gph you can also add a pre-filter and a sump can be one of the best filtration systems you can have..


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Use a hang on the back overflow. And you would still only need one pump
CPR CS100 SIPHON AQUARIUM OVERFLOW BOX by CPR Aquatic - AquaCave
This is just an example there is a PVC overflow on this site, I've never used it myself but from what I have heard it works well.
<a href=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2561&ppuser=2399><img src=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2561&size=1 border=0></a>
I hope this helps. What size is the tank?


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

main tank is 20 gal, and sump will be a 10 gal.

I got to thinking using two pumps would not be smart,if one pump went out I would have a major flood, and i don't like floods lol. 
I purchased Eshopps Overflow Boxes PF-Nano (rated at 200 gph)and Maxi-Jet Submersible Utility Pumps Model 900 (rated at 247 gph, but can adjust down to 200) hope this works. If my math is correct, and I sort of know what i'm doing then this will give me 10 times turnover per hour.

With this setup, no flooding, if the pump goes out or power loss, then no more water down the overflow!
Any comments?


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

Incorrect, if the return line is blow the surface of the main tank it will siphon backwards into the sump. You need to make an air hole in the line for the pump at a level that will break the back siphon of the return line.


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

Where would the air hole need to be, and do you know of a schematic on it. I can't picture this in my head, because to me if i had an airhole, then when the pump was working correctly, water would leak through the hole..


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

momiester2 said:


> Where would the air hole need to be, and do you know of a schematic on it. I can't picture this in my head, because to me if i had an airhole, then when the pump was working correctly, water would leak through the hole..


The air hole should be about a half an inch under the desirded water level or however deep if can go with out overflowing the sump. It can also serve as a remind to top your tank off if you see or hear the water shooting out the air hole.


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

oh ok think i gotcha. 1/2 an inch below water line in main tank, that way if pump does go out a back siphon will occur but when it reaches air hole, it will stop. Perfect, thanks for the help, its weird the things you don't think about until tragedy happens, like 20 gallons of sea water on my floor lol..


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

Crap drawning but here you go.


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

momiester2 said:


> oh ok think i gotcha. 1/2 an inch below water line in main tank, that way if pump does go out a back siphon will occur but when it reaches air hole, it will stop. Perfect, thanks for the help, its weird the things you don't think about until tragedy happens, like 20 gallons of sea water on my floor lol..


Exactly.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

First never use two pumps. You will never get them balanced. Pump only from the sump the the highest container (usually your display tank).

second I highly recommend you buy a couple of $10 plastic containers or even just use a couple of wastbaskets and build a test setup. that way you can play around and make adjustments without risking a flood in your tank setup.

Adjustments:

1) power out---- no sump flood.

2) power return--- normal operation returns

3) overflow/drain failure---- sump runs dry before upper container floods.


my .02


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## briane (Jul 9, 2011)

i have been using this pre filter sump system with no problems
pump stops siphon stops mine is all home made
crystal clear water


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

mec102778 said:


> The air hole should be about a half an inch under the desirded water level or however deep if can go with out overflowing the sump. It can also serve as a remind to top your tank off if you see or hear the water shooting out the air hole.


+1


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

beaslbob said:


> First never use two pumps. You will never get them balanced. Pump only from the sump the the highest container (usually your display tank).
> 
> second I highly recommend you buy a couple of $10 plastic containers or even just use a couple of wastbaskets and build a test setup. that way you can play around and make adjustments without risking a flood in your tank setup.
> 
> ...


++1


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok hopefully I have everything down, got my sump baffles completed, swithed everything to a bigger tank (20 gal), and used my original tank (10 gal) as a sump/refugium. Here are some pictures of my progress so far. FYI i know that i need more live rock in main tank, going to get some today, and maintank is almost cycled. Quick question, will adding some more live sand and live rock prolong my cycle. Last reading was PH 8.2, Ammonia between 0-.25, Nitrate 20, and Nitrite between 0-.25. But i did add almost 8 more gallons of water by moving to a bigger tank, which should lower nitrates. I am still waiting for an overflow and pump to test before starting the sump/refugium.

My new 20 gal




My sump started


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Good start... If you add cured live from this point on it won't make much difference because you still have readings of Ammonia between 0-.25, Nitrate 20, and Nitrite between 0-.25.(still cycling though) When you add all of your live rock wait a few days and test again then judge accordingly.


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

momiester2 said:


> main tank is 20 gal, and sump will be a 10 gal.
> 
> I got to thinking using two pumps would not be smart,if one pump went out I would have a major flood, and i don't like floods lol.
> I purchased Eshopps Overflow Boxes PF-Nano (rated at 200 gph)and Maxi-Jet Submersible Utility Pumps Model 900 (rated at 247 gph, but can adjust down to 200) hope this works. If my math is correct, and I sort of know what i'm doing then this will give me 10 times turnover per hour.
> ...


 If you are worried about pumps going out because of a power outage I would recommend getting a UPS unit for pc's this would keep pumps and filters going..*w2


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> If you are worried about pumps going out because of a power outage I would recommend getting a UPS unit for pc's this would keep pumps and filters going..*w2


While at first this sound like a good idea the real solution is to insure that under any conditions you don't experience a flood.

As water flows to one container it comes from the other. The key IMHO is to insure that flow stops before the container floods. so you stop the draining through the overflow before the sump floods, break up the reverse siphon (add air to the return lines),stop the pumping (pump intake level) if the overflow fails.

my .02


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I have to agree with Bob here because backups fail to. Every tank that runs a sump system should have a fail safe, so no matter what your tank and sump will never overflow.


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## momiester2 (Jun 28, 2011)

well I do have a plan for no floods, just waiting for parts in the mail.

1. on pump line from sump to tank, drilling a hole in the line just below water line, so if pump fails or power outage it will not back syphon back into the sump.

2. If overflow fails, i am putting the pump just below the water line in the sump, so pump will run dry before tank overflows, rather lose a $30 pump then have a flood. Eventually i will fork out the money for a pump that shuts off when it overheats or runs dry.

Anyone notice anything I am missing, suggestions very much welcome


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

Here is something I came across That might help you out on utube...

‪DIY OVERFLOW PIPE‬‏ - YouTube


<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DnWpQEkeatE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

‪DIY Overflow Pipe.Take Two‬‏ - YouTube

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ILS2Ep5_8h0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>*cool-dude*cool-dude


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