# Problem starting a new five gal aquarium.



## gayler (Sep 3, 2011)

So we bought a five gal aquarium for our son. Washed everything with hot water, filled it, conditioned the water, waited a couple of days and tested the water and all was good.I can't remember the exact numbers. We put in a black molly and one other fish, I can't remember what It was. Both died overnight. So a few weeks later we cleaned everything and tried again floated the fish in the bag for one hour. This time the fish was in distress from the beginning. So this time I think I will fill the aquarium with water from my 2500 gal pond, and add some media from my bio filter. What do you all think?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The problem is the tank isn't cycled. I wouldn't put pond water, just clean dechlorinated water, and put some media from the pond in the tank filter. let set a couple of days, then acclimate a couple of new fish.


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## gayler (Sep 3, 2011)

Wouldn't it take more than a couple hours to build up amonia to kill the fish?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

depends on a lot of things, if the fish is really stressed it can kill them pretty fast.


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## IslandRzrbk (Aug 14, 2011)

How long did you run the water through the filter (allowing it to work as if it had fish in it) before you added the fish/tested the water? 

I would test the water right when you start the setting up process and then right before you go out to buy the fish (3-7 days). This would be a good way to determine if there is something building up or breaking down between when you added the water and when you were preparing to add the fish that might be harming them. 

And I agree with susankat, adding pond water is definitely not a good idea. Pond water is its own ecosystem with its own established bacteria cultures in naturally determined equilibrium. This is great for the pond, but most likely not good for fish that are not accustomed to living in that environment. A hand full of little rocks or silt from the bottom should be enough to start the cycling process but not so much that you're creating a pond aquarium. 

Also, it may not be just the ammonia, if the aquarium is by a window it might be getting way to hot and other variables like that. Dechlorinating the water is definitely a good start though. 

Keep us posted!


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## gayler (Sep 3, 2011)

IslandRzrbk said:


> How long did you run the water through the filter (allowing it to work as if it had fish in it) before you added the fish/tested the water? I just let it run for a couple of days to get rid of the chlorine.
> 
> I would test the water right when you start the setting up process and then right before you go out to buy the fish (3-7 days). This would be a good way to determine if there is something building up or breaking down between when you added the water and when you were preparing to add the fish that might be harming them. I tested the water this time after refilling and the PH was 7.8 the KH was 180, the GH was 150 or so the nitrite was 0, the nitrate was 0 and the ammonia was at .5. now after twenty four hours or so the ammonia is at 3.0
> 
> ...


 Thanks! I wanted to put my writing in red, but didn't know how to do it. Hope this isn't too confusing


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## gayler (Sep 3, 2011)

How long do you think it will take to cycle?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

cycling tanks without fish can take up to 6 to 8 weeks, and actually with fish it can take it longer to fully cycle.

You can do a google search for the nitrogen cycle and read it, might take a few times reading to get a real good undertanding of it. This link will take you to the one here.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


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## IslandRzrbk (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi, 
Like Susankat said, proper cycling can take quite awhile. I've had success cycling my freshwater tanks for only a week, but my mom had to cycle her saltwater tank for 6 weeks. So obviously cycling can vary greatly. 

A concern of mine is that I'm not sure if the standard aquarium filters are actually able to filter out chlorine (I could be wrong) which means that the chlorine may still be in the water and just be running through the filter repeatedly without being removed. Bottled water conditioners are the best way to treat water since they are chemically neutralizing the chlorine. 

Ammonia spikes up to 3.0 is normal when cycling your tank as it is your aquarium trying reach an equilibrium. But obviously it is not ready for fish of any kind yet. I would let the aquarium keep running and retest in a few more days and see where the numbers are at if the ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites aren't at 0 than the tank still is not ready. 

The pH also seems high, but some fish species will do fine in higher pH, but I would recommend also keeping an eye on it and trying to get it down to 6.8-7.5 range. 

Talk to you soon!

IslandRzrbk


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## ccarterj (Sep 4, 2011)

IslandRzrbk said:


> Hi,
> Like Susankat said, proper cycling can take quite awhile. I've had success cycling my freshwater tanks for only a week, but my mom had to cycle her saltwater tank for 6 weeks. So obviously cycling can vary greatly.
> 
> A concern of mine is that I'm not sure if the standard aquarium filters are actually able to filter out chlorine (I could be wrong) which means that the chlorine may still be in the water and just be running through the filter repeatedly without being removed. Bottled water conditioners are the best way to treat water since they are chemically neutralizing the chlorine.
> ...



Chlorine actually comes out of the water in almost any open container. My buddy doesn't ever declorinate his water for water changes/adds he just sets it out for 24 hours and then adds it. From that note, a few months ago I cycled my 55g tank without any water conditioners, it seemed to take a little longer but have not had any problem with fish.

Like others said cycling can take a few weeks.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Chlorine can evaporate out of water within 24 hours, but laws now water companies are to start using chloramine which doesn't dissapate so you should be using a water conditoner that removes chloramines.


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## ccarterj (Sep 4, 2011)

susankat said:


> Chlorine can evaporate out of water within 24 hours, but laws now water companies are to start using chloramine which doesn't dissapate so you should be using a water conditoner that removes chloramines.


Agreed, I do you water conditioners now, I just live in a small town with little options. Water conditioners have a variety of benefits.


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## IslandRzrbk (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the chloramine update susankat!

Yeah I was just talking to my fiance (a chemist) and he was saying that the chlorine molecule is definitely too small to be able to be filtered using a non-specialized filter. Also, we were discussing that when you attach an amine group (NH2) to a chlorine (Cl) to form H2NCl you are not only theoretically increasing the impact of nitrogen, but also potentially increasing overall basicity (making it more basic). Yep this is what us nerds sit and discuss! 

And I'm not meaning to disagree with ccarterj at all, but when you mentioned the evaporation factor (assuming for chlorine and NOT chloramine), in theory if you don't allow the bucket to sit out wouldn't the fact that the aquarium is typically a closed environment cut down on the evaporation rate of the chlorine from the water? Just thinking out loud. 

I'm just paranoid too since my family is originally from Hawaii where chlorine additives are non existent and when we moved to Texas all our poison arrow frogs and fish died because we didn't realize the water we were giving them had chlorine in it! Live and Learn and then get Conditioners, right? 

IslandRzrbk


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## ccarterj (Sep 4, 2011)

IslandRzrbk said:


> Thanks for the chloramine update susankat!
> 
> Yeah I was just talking to my fiance (a chemist) and he was saying that the chlorine molecule is definitely too small to be able to be filtered using a non-specialized filter. Also, we were discussing that when you attach an amine group (NH2) to a chlorine (Cl) to form H2NCl you are not only theoretically increasing the impact of nitrogen, but also potentially increasing overall basicity (making it more basic). Yep this is what us nerds sit and discuss!
> 
> ...



I agree completely with a closed system not being too effective. In my case I left the tops off and had a bubbler to further increase the evaporation rate. I talked to a buddy and it seems chloramine is at least becoming a more common additive.


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## ccarterj (Sep 4, 2011)

Anyone know anything about how the additives used to say that you need to put the drops in and then wait an hour or something like that... Now all of the additives I find say nothing just add it and your good to go is implied.


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## IslandRzrbk (Aug 14, 2011)

Fascinating, but don't know if it's specific enough:

HowStuffWorks "Hard and Soft Aquarium Water"


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gayler said:


> Wouldn't it take more than a couple hours to build up amonia to kill the fish?


No

It takes much less time actually.

using the pond materials is a good idea.

another good idea is to do a low tech planted system with anacharis/vals to keep ammonia low.

my .02


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## gayler (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks everyone! The ammonia has droped some and nitrate and nitrite have risen. I havent checked today. The little crab still seams to be fine. We don't have chloramines hear so no worries there. Any time I've drained my 2500 gal pond I just wait a couple days after refilling to return my fish. I do keep dechlor just in case of emergency.


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