# Newly Set-up Sorority Tank



## CaPisces

Hello Betta :betta: People!
So, last night I was at Wal-Mart and saw, as usual, the horribly kept live fish area. I was there looking for a cheap, and I mean cheap!, 10 gallon tank hood for my QT because my cat has almost fallen face-first into it several times. At this point that wasn't such a huge deal since it only housed some plants I hadn't had the motivation to perform a salt and peroxide dip on yet. But while shopping for my cheapie hood, I just HAD to walk by the live fish, and in the process all of those horrible betta tubs. Now, I already have one female and one male betta (seperated, of course). But when I saw all of those lone females sitting there in their own filth, I knew I had to save them. I made the decision then and there to buy as many as I could. That ended up being five! I knew that I was taking a chance that not all of these females would be able to live together, but I figured either way they would be out of that store and those stupid tubs. 
So, now I have a ten gallon semi-planted sorority tank. As of this morning, everyone seems to be getting along. I have one larger blue VT that seems to have declared herself The Queen. She seems to be doing a lot of flaring and has pushed a few of the smaller girls around, but otherwise there hasn't be any nipping. Everyone recieved a malachite-green/formalin dip upon arrival, and the tank is being treated with Jungle Parasite and Fugus Cure as a preventative measure, as well as a medically heavy dose of aquarium salt. 
My real want is for anyone who has ever had an all female betta tank to comment. What should I be on the look out for besides fin nipping and the like? What are your experiences? Any help or comments would be great.
Thanks!
Mary
:betta:


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## Kaiden32

It is normal at first for them to pick at eachother just to decide who is more dominant, etc. but make sure that they aren't like totally beating up on eachother. Post some pics!


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## CaPisces

Right now none of my ladies are photo ready. Wal-Mart bettas come with problems (mouth fungus!) but as soon as they are all better pictures will come!


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## majerah1

First off,please make 100%sure they are all female.I dont care if the cups say so,i have bought three males marked a females,and saw seven more at the same time.
If you didnt know,this is how to differenciate the two:
male sold as a female:








Another male sold as a female;








This is a few drawings i did just to point out the differences,also how to tell the fin type of females:
This is a male HMPK.A regular PK is what the first pictures are.








Female Veil,similiar to the PK males.








HM female








and a PK female.









Now once you are sure they are all females,then its very easy.First off theres always a chance for them to break out into a fight.For this reason,you must pay attention to the heirarchy of the females.You said the big blue one was domineering the others.This is good as long as no challengers approach.Fighting and nipping is ok,but if you see lip locking and pummeling them to the ground or the sides,then seperate asap.When you clean,add the least dominate one first then move up.Add more plants,silk if you dont have live.Basically just remember,its fun while it lasts,and can last anywhere from a few days to the lifespan of the fish.Good luck,and share pics soon!


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## CaPisces

Majerah, your drawing are lovely and informative. And don't worry I always look for the ovipositor on any bettas I am thinking of buying. Lucky for me all my girls are really girls. Also, my tank is HEAVILY planted, so they have lots and lots of hiding spots.
Right now though, I am thinking that I might have more problems on my hands then I thought. Out of the five I bought, three seem to be on their way out. They either sit on the bottom of the tank or hide vertically in the plants. Only two are really active; swimming around and inspecting the tank. I do not know what to do to prevent any deaths. I mean, I knew at time of purchase that I would probably end up losing at least one because they came from such horrible conditions and the shock of transport from grime to gleam can be enough to put them over the edge. But I would really like to have them all survive. Can anyone suggest something to get them more active?
Also, I have noticed that each of them has set up her own territory. Two of the more submissive fish (both teal blue) have found the space between the Japanese moss ball and the _Hygrophila Corymbosa compact _an ideal territory. The larger, most dominate (blue-ish red) likes the top leaves of the _Cryptocoryne undulate_. The second most dominate female (she’s purple) enjoys the space around the heater. And the middle fish (she’s pink) likes the rocks around the base of the _Cryptocoryne undulate _and the _Anubias nana_.


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## Kaiden32

Nice drawings! I hope that your bettas won't die, but that is good that they have established territories. Maybe they are just settling in. Like you said, the change from those evil cups to a regular tank can be a little crazy.


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## CaPisces

Up-date:
So far everything is going very well. No one has died and everyones colors are turning out to be very pretty. I did put in a clean-up crew of Ghost shrimp and a Mystery snail. I plan on adding several more plants since a couple of the original ones have either died or I transplanted them into my other tanks. I am not very good at taking photos of the tank but I will post some cell phone photos in a bit.
Hope everyones holidays are going well!
-CaPisces


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## majerah1

You guys are too kind on the art critique....


Glad to hear everyones settled in and getting along better.Cant wait to see the pics.


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## CaPisces

Alright, so this pitcure sucks since you can't see most of the fish but at least you guys can get an idea of what the tank looks like. This picture isn't as up-to-date as I would like since I have added a few more plants, some Ghost shrimp, and a Mystery snail, but it will work for now.


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## CaPisces

Up-date: 
So, I think one of my ladies might need to come out of the tank. She is currently maintaining a pretty permanent position at the top of the tank. She isn't hurt or anything but doesn't seem to want to head to the bottom of the tank where the four other fish are. There is some minor "pecking" that is occurring but that could be because they are cranky from a two day fast I had to put the tank on due to some over feeding issues that occurred (I.E. the boyfriend trying to feed them when I already had). We will see if things get better once their regular feeding schedule resumes.


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## CaPisces

Up-Date:
Just lost one of my gals to what I think was _Flavobacterium columnare _(columnaris). Had her in the QT and just couldn't get the infection to clear up. I have a second lady, Bertha, in there now (do not fear I did disinfect the tank before adding her in there). At first, it seemed that she just had some fin rot of her tail, but I noticed a little bit of white near her lip so she is being treated with some metronidazole via Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear just incase. Wish me luck!
Also, with some of my tax return I plan on upgrading the tank!
Possible up-grades are:
Making the tank a 15 or 20 gallon tank
Adding more plants
Adding a better filter
Adding four or five Amano shrimp
Possibly adding two more ladies since the ranks have been reduced and the pecking order is now all screwed up. Hopefully my newly sick fish will make it and I will only have to add one fish.

I am really hoping that Bertha doesn't die. If she does have columnaris she will be in the QT for at least a few weeks. I can tell she hates it and wants her plants back.


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## majerah1

Sorry you have lost one.Columnaris is nasty.You can always place a live plant in the quarantine tank,to help her stress stay low.It will help her feel more secure.Just get one dedicated to the QT,and after the QT period give it a bleach bath,to keep the infections from spreading to others.


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## CaPisces

Up-date:
The heater I had in the tank decided to crack and nearly explode today. Luckily, I was home and heard the hissing of the water hitting the heating element. I shut it off as quick as I could and pulled it out. Had to take the heater out of my 20 gallon goldfish tank and put it in with the bettas while I went to class. Will be taking the heater back after since it was only two months old.
Majerah, I was thinking about that actually. She seems to be responding very well to the medication, so I am hoping she won't be in there for long. I have a bunch of fake plants I am thinking about putting in there since they can be cleaned easily. Not as good as live but until tax return money comes in that is all that I have.

Wish me luck since we all know bad things come in threes!
1) Fish died
2) Heater leaked and nearly exploded.
I really hope the third thing isn't as bad as the first...


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## CaPisces

Up-date:
So, I think the third bad thing has arrived, it looks like Bertha, the second fish I have that started to look sick now looks like she might have dropsy and is no longer responding to the medication I have been giving her. She is pretty pine-coned and has the same white patches that the other fish had on her back before she died. Bertha seems very active and alert but she is very bloated. I really hope she doesn't die. 

On a side note, the four girls I have left in the main tank all looks very healthy! I think I caught the infection before it spread.

Also, Mejarha what temp do you keep your tanks at? I had mine at about 72 F then turned it up to about 76 F. Have you found a temp that seems to work best for your fish?


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## danilykins

Awww, Im sorry, do you think you can add some salt to help the bloating??


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## majerah1

I keep my bettas at 86.They seem to thrive quite well,and have no cases of Ich,since the temp is that high.

Do you have any blackwater extract,or access to Indian Almond leaves,Oak leaves or peat?If so maybe adding enough to darken the water to a nice amber color,and salt,and temp increase may help the dropsey girl.Some will pull through it,and some wont,theres no real treatment,as its a symptom of so many different things and not a disease in and of itself.All you can do is keep her comfy and hope for the best.


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## Skybox

Bless your heart ! I fell like that all the time, going to the these two big well knowing pet Store. They are over price for Half moon and King betta, and many more betta. Every betta dieing and unhappy all the time. People are not buying them due to their high price.


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## CaPisces

Majerah, because I think that she had columnaris I am hesitant to increase the temperature since columnaris thrives at higher temperatures. I don't have any peat, IAL, or oak leaves but I am sure I could find some blackwater extract. Do you think it will help? She did come from a tank with a lot of tannins due to a newer piece of drift wood. 
I am starting to debate on whether or not I should put her down. I do not want her to suffer needlessly, but at the same time what if I just haven't tried the right thing and if I did, she would recover. Have you guys ever had to make this sort of decision? 

On a lighter note though, I did get my tax return. I bought a new 20 gallon standard, a AquaClear filter, more substrate, a glass top, and a new T5HO light. The light has lunar lights and standard 24" bulbs, one blue and one white. I set the tank up a few nights ago. I took all the substrate from my 10 gallon out and put it in the new tank, moved the old filter over while the new one is cycling, and put in all the plants. Right now its still a little cloudy, but it looks pretty good. I am hoping that the plants will start filling in now that they have more light. I add some root tabs as well, so that should help. 
So far, my remaining ladies seem to be loving their new home, however, they are a little pissy that I changed everything around and their territories must be established again. 
Hopefully, no one else gets sick and everything with the new tank goes well. 
Wish me luck!

P.S. Was thinking about getting some Corydoras for the bottom of the tank, since the girls seems to like the middle and top of the water (always acting like they are poor, starving fishes) What are your thoughts on my idea?


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## Flare

Putting them in a bigger tank was a great idea! I have a 30 gallon sorority, and I couldn't imagine even having them in something as small as a 10 gallon. When females are in tight quarters they are more likely to argue and get in eachothers way, all of the fighting and flaring (whether it causes visible damage or not) Can really stress out the girls and make them much more susceptible to illness, which may be why you've had some health issues, stress causes the immune system to weaken. 

How many girls do you have now in the 20 gallon? I would never recommend having less then 6 or 7 (I have 11) The more girls there are the more spread out the aggression will become, and the less likely it will be for one individual female to be constantly targeted and stressed. 

I think cories would be fine, I have some cories in my sorority and the girls dont pay a bit of attention to them.


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## CaPisces

Up-date: I am sorry to report that Bertha died yesterday of complications due to columnaris. It looks like she had a sore above her eye that opened the way for the infection to spread to her brain.  
Other than that, I have nothing much to report. 
Flare, I have two new girls waiting to clear what I call Fishey Customs a.k.a. They're in a QT. That would bring me to 6 girls in total. I'm going to check out my LFS for some Cory Cats.
Thank you everyone for your help and advice. I do appreciate it. I better end this since I'm sitting in class writing this.


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## majerah1

Sorry for your loss,and congrats on the new tank.Flare seems to have some great experience with bettas so i agree with all that was posted above.I do think that adding some blackwater extract for awhile will help stress,especially with the two new ladies.Remember,to mix up the decor and add some more plants too,so they dont go territory crazy.

If you are comfortable with it,order some IALs online from someone on aquabid.They have great prices and are a wonderful addition to a betta keepers fishroom.OR you can look at the IBC website,i believe there are some local breeders there who may have some you can get.Males love to nest under them an females will lounge under them too.


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## CaPisces

Majerah, when I bought the new tank, I had to buy more driftwood, more plants, and more substrate. So everyone got new places to hide and hang-out. The new girls are currently being housed with some plants I plan on adding to the tank when the new girls get added to the tank. 
I am a little sketched out by the idea of ordering things from aquabid, but if you know of someone you can recommend, go ahead and PM that person's seller ID. 
If I add the blackwater extract will that be just as good as IAL? I can get that from the LFS.


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## majerah1

BWE.Yes and no.The reason i add the leaves is the tannins are released slowly and the fish get used to the drop in PH,if there is one.plus the IALs have more medicinal and anti parasitic properties than peat,which is used for the BWE.The leaves come from Thailand where the bettas come from,and so its more in their nature.The peat i believe comes from the amazon where tetras and angels hail.Ill PM you the seller i use,or you can order from the IBC website:Indian Almond Leaves - Grade B - $5.00 : International Betta Congress!


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## CaPisces

Majerah, I got your PM, thank you! I goign to order some IAL here within the next week days. I think I may still get the BWE though, just in case the IAL take awhile to get here. 
Am having trouble not just adding the new fish into the main tank. I am extremely excited about the new girls and the cory cats I bought. Wish me luck on keeping my patients!


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## CaPisces

Only one more week until I get to introduce my three new females and my three new cory cats into my main tank! So far no one has show any sign of getting sick. I bought another _H. compackta_ plant! It's most likely my favorite plant next to _A. coffeefolia_. Has anyone here had any luck with _Ludwigia repens_? I have tried to get this plant to take hold in my tank three different time and each time the plants will survive for about three weeks and then they just die. I am on my fourth try with it but this time I added some root tabs, I lost a few stems but so far it seems to be hanging on but just barely. Any help would be welcomed.


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## majerah1

Good luck,glad everyone is doing well!Ya know,my 25 has great lighting and gets DIY CO2 and dosed fertz,and I could not keep repens going either.I finally quit wasting my money on it.


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## CaPisces

Majerah, of the two pots of repens, I think maybe only about 3/4 of a single pot has survived and of that I am expecting to lose about half of that since I am starting to notice some of the stems are turning black. 
On a much lighter note, am going to add all my new additions this weekend! Am going to add the two bettas on Friday and the three cory cats on Monday or Tuesday. I don't want to send my tank into a mini-cycle with the addition of so many new fish.


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## majerah1

Yeah thats the same thing that was happening to mine.I tried to plant them individually,like other stems,thinking that maybe they were not getting enough light between all the stems,to no avail.

Yay for the ladies!Must get pics when they settle in,of all of them together.


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## CaPisces

So, I got all of the new fish added to the tank this weekend. I added the three girls on Friday and the three Corys today. That brings me to eight ladies, three common Corydoras, and a bunch of Ghost shrimp in a 20 gallon pretty heavily planted tank.
Everyone seems to be getting along pretty well. To change the lay out so no one gets crazy, I added two Cardinal plants, two bunches of A. lutea, another H. compakta, a marbled sword of some kind, and some dwarf hairgrass (dhg). I love the look of the dhg but man, is it a pain in the butt!!! I wish the Cardinal plant would keep its purple color, but in my tank it loses all of its purple leaves and sprouts green ones instead. 
I will get pictures this weekend, am going to have a REALLY busy week.


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## majerah1

Sounds like its going smoothly!Cant wait for the pics.But I will I guess......


LOL


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## CaPisces

Alright, I am not having a very great week here. I have one fish dead, one with tail fin/body damage, and one with some sort of neurological problem. The one with tail fin and body damage seems to have columnaris, luckily I think I have stopped it in its tracks. I took her out and applied Pimafix directly to the infected area and that has seemed to stop any progress. She has yet to show any other signs of slowing, swims great, eats great, doesn't hide or sit at the bottom. She just has some mouth and tail missing.
I can't seem to figure out if Maracyn or Maracyn II is better at treating columnaris, so right now I am just trying Maracyn. I feel like I am not doing something right but I have no idea what it is. I have notice though that all three of my infected fish were/are the original stock fish I saved from Wal-Mart. I wonder if it's not so much what I am doing but that the fish just aren't from good stock. Any thoughts?


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## CaPisces

Up-Date:
My favorite betta didn't die! She spend almost a month in the QT and just didn't die. She still has trouble with swimming (her tail end keeps trying to float up) but she is eating and pooping regularly so who am I to complain? I ended up putting her back into the main tank since she clearly isn't going to die any time soon. 
Last week I went to the LFS to get some more Ghost shrimp and ended up getting five White Cloud "Danio" Mountain Minnows mixed in with my shrimp (Lucky, I know). They seemed to be fitting in pretty well with my six remaining ladies. 
I ended up having to remove one of the girls due to a little bit too much fin nipping. She was a fish from PetSmart while the others are from Pet Extreme. I am not sure which type of betta she is, but her fins are MUCH longer than the girls from PetSmart (yes, she is a girl. I double checked) and the other girls just love to pick at them. She is currently in her own 5 gal. with her own personal clean up crew snail. 
I also added two Golden Mystery snails last month and they promptly eat my two Cardinal Plants and a brand new _H. Kompakta_! I am going to try and post a picture of the tank from my cell phone, but who knows if it will work. Thanks to the snacking my snails did, one side of my tank looks a little bare


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## CaPisces




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## CaPisces




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## CaPisces

So the pictures are not very good, but you can sort of see the colors that the girls have. My favorite is the large purple one, then there is a blue one, a blue one with red tips, a light teal girl, a dark almost navy girl, and a dark almost black-ish one. The one female I have that isn't in the large tank has a dark black-ish body with vibrant red fins.
I couldn't get the Corys to come out for photo time, but all three are still doing great.


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## majerah1

Hey Mary,the pics are not working for me.


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## CaPisces

Darn it! I will try to get them to work here in a few. Sorry guys.


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## ashleykins

I would love to see the pics if you can get them to work!  I am also working on a sorority atm so it's exciting to see others!


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## CaPisces

Up-date:
Lost one of my gold mystery snails to the filter intake. It got sucked into the tube and died, then the second one decided to try and commit suicide but luckily I got it out before it died. THEN (all of this happened on the same day) one of the fish jumped out of the tank via the 1/2 inch hole between the filter and the wall and died. Needless to say, it was a slightly crappy day. However, everything else seems to be going alright. I am going to try and get the pictures up on here tonight. Wish me luck!
- Mary


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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## CaPisces

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## majerah1

Looking nice!Yeah bettas jump.At least these are not as bad as the wild counterparts.They search for holes and them being a tad slimmer than the splendens,If the can get their heads out they can fit through.Hence the reasoning behind my crazy cover the whole top and tape any holes or add craft canvan/jam anything down the holes routine.

Sorry for your losses,and I hope things stay smooth for the rest.One concern though.The fish in post 44.Do you have a better shot of her?Hard to say,but the way she is swimming makes her anal fin look a little long.If it is,and tapers to a point,be sure to watch for her being bossy and a different sway when flaring at the girls.She may be a he.


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## CaPisces

Unless males can have an ovipositor too, they are all females. If I can I'll post a picture of "Red" she's my original female who can't be in the tank because she gets picked on so much. She has really long fins; so long you would think she's male but she's not.


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## CaPisces

Just realize that the very last picture is an old one. My tank doesn't look like that any more. The one right above it is closer to what it looks like now. Since those pictures we taken some of the plants have been moved around.


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## majerah1

Actually,yes males can have a false oviposter.That throws many people off.


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## RobertTheFish

CaPisces said:


> Hello Betta :betta: People!
> So, last night I was at Wal-Mart and saw, as usual, the horribly kept live fish area.


Call (800) 925-6278 and speak with Walmart customer service.

You will be on hold for 5 minutes at most and then you will speak to a CS rep. Tell them about the problem and give them very specific details. I did the same thing with my local store, told the rep very specific things: Piles of fish bones in all the larger tanks, bettas never get water changes.

Less than a week later all the piles of fish bones are gone and the bettas they have left are in clean(er) water.

It looks like they culled a bunch, but I can't be sure. I can say that personally, I'd rather be culled than slowly poison myself to death with my own excrement.


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## CaPisces

Hello Everyone,
I know it has been several weeks since I last posted. Much has changed since then. I ended up moving and had to give most of my tanks to friends and family. I only have my 29 gallon saltwater tank now. I ended up giving all of my girls to my older sister and her family. She has a house with two 100 gallon tanks, so the 20 gallon I ended up giving her wasn't much a problem. 
I just wanted to tell you guys how nice you have been and that I appreciate all of the advice you have given me. Majerah, you are amazing! Thank you so much for all your knowledge.
I hope that I will have the opportunity to return to this aspect of fish keeping in the future.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Mary


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## majerah1

Awww,Mary,you flatter me,lol.I am sorry to hear the sorority is not with you any more but it seems to be in perfect hands!


I hope one day you will get another betta tank setup(I am sure itll be soon to haha!)and share with us here.I for one enjoyed all the pics you had posted.


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## Hawk1018

Hi I am new to the forum and just started a sorority tank about a week and a half ago. I am using a 10 gal tank with a few live plants and some plastic plants. I started out with 3 girls and ended up loosing one to the other two stronger fish. I instantly went out and go three more so now I have 5 girls and one dwarf frog from a previous venture. Anyway all five seem to be doing well on day 7 and plants not showing any signs of growing yet. A couple of my girls have fat bellies ...not sure if I am feeding them too much. I feed them twice a day ...a couple pinches of flake food and I drop in some frog pellets in the hopes my lone frog will find them....then I give them frozen brine shrimp probably twice a week...like wed afternoon and sat afternoon as a treat.


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## majerah1

Welcome Hawk!

Sororities are alot of work and can be successful or fails.The females could be getting full of eggs,which is normal for healthy mature girlies.

I suggest you look for some pellets instead of flakes though,as flakes are not a good betta food.It can cause constipation.
Frozen foods is a great treat.Get them some frozen bloodworms and they will love you forever!


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## Hawk1018

some pics of my tank and girls


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## Hawk1018

the blue one with the white on her gills seems to be the boss.


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