# Please help with first saltwater tank. 29 Gal BioCube.



## Burt_Gummer (Mar 26, 2013)

I have had freshwater tanks in the past and currently have a 75 gal with a bunch of random fish in it, but have wanted a saltwater for awhile.

I have ordered a 29 gal. BioCube and want to use it to start a small salt water tank. Does anyone here have experience with starting a new tank? I am completely clueless on the subject matter but have been watching you tube videos on the set-up process, trying to get a feel for it.

Any advice on set-up, fish and coral choices would be greatly appreciated. I want to keep it simple with maybe 2 clown fish and a couple small lobsters or shrimp and a Mandarin fish. 

Thanks in advance.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

First thanks to ReefingMadness
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f67/what-you-might-need-start-your-41978.html
Then you'll want at least 1 pound of live rock per gallon.Live rock is not necessary for all salt set ups,but if you really want a mandarin and don't want to wait a year to build up a good supply of copods for food ,live rock will help kick start them for you.
If you're serious about a mandarin try extremely hard to get a captive bred one that will eat mysis shrimp as they do much better than wild caught(and tank raised aren't the same as captive bred).
The bio cube may be a little tight for two clowns but I'll let someone else chime in on that.I'll leave the corals out for now also as you need to establish the tank for more than a month(at least)before investing in corals(and research which ones you will be able to sustain).I'm not thinking lobsters are really possible,but there are several very cool shrimp that are reef and fish safe;Coral banded(you can only have one unless you get a true pair),Cleanner shrimp,and fire shrimp are most common colorful choices.
So read up on Madness list,then research your fish,shrimp,and corals.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Burt_Gummer said:


> I have had freshwater tanks in the past and currently have a 75 gal with a bunch of random fish in it, but have wanted a saltwater for awhile.
> 
> I have ordered a 29 gal. BioCube and want to use it to start a small salt water tank. Does anyone here have experience with starting a new tank? I am completely clueless on the subject matter but have been watching you tube videos on the set-up process, trying to get a feel for it.
> 
> ...



Congrats on your new purchase! 

Each aquarist has unique ideas about what works best…opinions differ. Here are some of mine… 

If you aren't already familiar with the nitrogen cycle, you'll want to be prior to placing animals into your aquarium. The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle I'm against cycling with live-fish but to each their own. I'll just say that if a fish survives the unavoidable ammonia and nitrite poisoning, it will have 2 permanently scarred gills, aka ick magnets. And ya know that cute little Domino Damsel at petco for $5? IMO, it's not a good idea to use it to cycle your tank. It's tough and will likely survive the cycle and grow into a monster that will torture your other fish. Most damsels are aggressive and best kept with other aggressive fish. 

Get a good testing kit...that's one of your first orders of business. I don't know...I suppose start minimally with Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Ph, kH and Phosphates? Maybe someone else can chime in with a recommendation. I use API testing products. Their line gets a lot of lousy reviews but I suspect user error. I've been using their products for years- FW, pond, and now reef chemicals and they've served me well. The key is to not be sloppy. Be precise. Shake the bottles thoroughly...for minutes, not seconds, and go slow. But there are other good testing products out there. If I already had some, I might use the 5-way testing strips from Wal-Mart to roughly monitor a SW cycle, but before I added fish and beyond that, I'd use chemicals. 

I use Prime as a water conditioner and I like it. Other than trace elements, not much else gets poured into my tank. I strongly recommend never putting a medication of any sort into your tank without thoroughly understanding the consequences, some permanent...regardless of what the guy at the LFS told you. A forum such as this will sometimes serve you better.

No tap water. Reverse Osmosis water is best. I do infrequent water changes with actual sea water so I can't recommend a salt product. The frequency of your water changes is something you'll have to research and decide for yourself. I do them rarely. Others do them often. I'm not even going there. Beyond that, don't use saltwater to replace evaporated water...use freshwater conditioned via reverse osmosis. Salt doesn't evaporate so if you replace evaporated water with saltwater, your salinity/specific gravity will get too high.

Buy something to measure specific gravity. I use a hydrometer, others use a refractometer. The latter is more accurate.

I recommend a UV sterilizer, others will not. To me, it's a nonnegotiable piece of equipment. The Green Killing Machine is one to consider. There are others.

Invest in a good skimmer. Don't buy something off the shelf at Petco. Just don't. Do Biocubes come with skimmers built in already? 

There are a lot of suitable substrate choices. My brother actually cleaned and used the sand from his kids' sandbox (how embarrassing)...and it apparently worked fine in his 300 gallon SW tank. With a mandarin, you're not going to want anything too coarse. I used Natures Ocean Live Sand because it was available to me. I have the black variety. I like the texture and granule size. It's not too fine, not too coarse, and it's right from the ocean floor. The sacks I've purchased contained everything from living starfish to broken glass. I do not, however, believe it's capable of instantly cycling an aquarium. Nothing is. Be suspicious of those claims. Some products may or may not be able to amp or speed the cycling process up...but that doesn't = fully cycled. And “cycled” does not = “seasoned”. It takes many months and up to a year or more before a SW tank is seasoned. Some marine critters require a seasoned tank to thrive. 

Mandarins are beautiful and fun to watch. They might be my all time favorite fish. That said, I strongly encourage you to pay the extra money for a tank-bred Mandarin. Don't fall for the marketing scheme that offers a wild Mandarin w/500 Pods for cheap...like I did. I don't know how much money I ended up spending on pods...a lot. A single mandarin can wipe-out the pod population in a 29-gallon tank in just a few days. Pods are expensive...I ended up culturing my own with success...but couldn't keep my wild mandarin fat enough. Their appetite is endless. I tried and tried but couldn't get him to eat anything but pods. I was fortunate enough to have a LFS 100 miles away offer to take him to pair with another in their huge reef system. 
ORA - These guys have tank-bred mandarins and sell them to many retailers. Ora Mandarins aren't $19.99...they're maybe $49.99? I'm not sure to be honest, but regardless; in the long run, it will be a much cheaper and wiser purchase. I believe countless wild mandarins have starved in home aquariums.

Many claim that clownfish from the Ocellaris class are the hardiest. I don't know if that's true. They look the most like "Nemo". There are many Ocellaris subspecies, including black and some with spots and odd shaped stripes. I've had great luck with Ocellaris clowns. I currently have ORA Orange Skunk clowns and I'm enjoying them. Here's a link to many varieties. Aquacultured Clownfish | ORA | Oceans, Reefs & Aquariums

There are many worthy vendors out there. I'll share some of my favorite...

Sea Life Inc. - Here is a great resource for live rock...cured or uncured. Philip and Kara dive and gather everything themselves...check them out on facebook. They are a young couple with a lot of knowledge and integrity and their zoas are the hardiest I've seen. I absolutely love their cinnamon palys...my favorite all time zoa ever and a small colony is only $7.50. Their polyps open minutes after acclimation and tolerate lower lighting well. They have super nice ricordia and bubble mushrooms and their sponges are bright, healthy and affordable. One of the best things about this company, actually called KP Aquatics, is that they offer both overnight and priority shipping. Priority shipping is cheap and works fine for zoas, ricordia and mushrooms etc. Their site notes items eligible for priority shipping versus overnight. They also have all the typical Florida Keys fish and inverts...everything's 100% guaranteed to arrive alive.

www.finaddictsaltwaterfish.com - Another Florida Keys vendor who does the diving himself. Chris is awesome too and his prices on most things are unbeatable. He'll ship 5 bags for $18.00 anywhere in the US and that includes most of his stock, but not all. That doesn't mean 5 items, rather it means 5 bags stocked appropriately. For example, an anemone and an anemone shrimp or crab can travel in the same bag. 3 brittle stars can travel in the same bag. Chris is ambitious and knows his stuff. He has a lot on eBay too and he’ll combine purchases from his site with purchased from eBay into one shipment. 

Alpha Aquaculture - Another guy named Chris. Top notch designer clownfish and customer service. This guy lives and breathes clownfish. His stock can get spendy…just depends on what your looking for.

Reef Animals - For years Aaron was a "Buyer" for a large aqua hobby retailer and then broke off and started his own business. He imports a lot of stuff. I believe everything on his website links directly to eBay now. There isn't a question this guy can't answer. He has so much integrity and while his marine animals aren't the cheapest, they are some of the absolute nicest. Among other things, I purchase my foods and additives from him. Both him and Chris from Alphacorals sell SA Dry Hatchery Diet which is, IMO one of the best fish foods on the market...especially for clowns. You'll want the 0.5mm size slow sinking pellets for clownfish. 

Live Aquaria - One of the largest retail vendors in the US. Their "Divers Den" updates daily at 5:00. Their Divers Den maricultured items are hard to beat. A lot of great information on their site if you go digging for it here Live Aquarium Setup: Aquarium Care and Aquarium Fish Information . Their guarantee is second to none. I've toured their Wisconsin facility and it's something to see. About our Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility

Saltwaterfish.com - I buy from them occasionally...they have some great offers at times. That said, regardless of species, their fish will always arrive with ick and other parasites...even their Ora-bred fish. It's just a given. I'd recommend them for corals though...especially yellow polyps and ora xenia. They have nice mexican turbo snails too and the most attractive nassarius snails I've found for .90 cents. Their guarantee isn't great...it’s not even good.

ReefCleaners.org - I highly recommend their dwarf ceriths. I'd put 100 in a 29-gallon reef but not until it has some algea growing and ditritus built up or they'll starve. I've probably got one of everything from their site in my tank and it all thrives.

Reefs2go.com - Their pods can't be beat. Live Saltwater Amphipods & Copepods-1000 - Buy 1 Get 1 FREE | Reefs2go.com

Bulk Reef Supply - The name speaks for itself. They aren't the cheapest on everything, just a lot of things. They'd be a great dry-rock source and their "Do it yourself" videos have been helpful for me.

So there are a few things to get you started. Good luck!


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## Burt_Gummer (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for all the info! I keep having to talk myself back into saltwater since my crayfish are molting and keep getting killed by my chiclids, and it would be nice to have a place to put them. But I think a ten gallon will work fine for that. Using the biocube for that would be a waste.


I have decided to go with a blue mandarin fish along with a juvenile emperor angel, and a clown fish once I get the tank up and running.

I am going to the fish store today to price out everything I will need. And the tanks will be here Friday.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Burt_Gummer said:


> Thanks for all the info! I keep having to talk myself back into saltwater since my crayfish are molting and keep getting killed by my chiclids, and it would be nice to have a place to put them. But I think a ten gallon will work fine for that. Using the biocube for that would be a waste.
> 
> 
> I have decided to go with a blue mandarin fish along with a juvenile emperor angel, and a clown fish once I get the tank up and running.
> ...


I believe an Emperor Angelfish requires a much larger tank...you might want to Google that or check at liveaquaria.com. Also, I think they might munch on corals? Blue mandarins are so pretty. Please consider only purchasing a tank-bred specimen...if you take nothing from my long-winded post other than that, you'll be wise. Maybe your LFS can order one for you? Do you have a certain clownfish in mind?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

If your using RO water Goby, there is no reason to use Prime. The water ha already been stripped of all the bad things.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> If your using RO water Goby, there is no reason to use Prime. The water ha already been stripped of all the bad things.


You're right...but it's nice to have on hand in an emergency. I use a capful of prime every week to reduce nitrates...it seems to work. I can't remember why just off hand. I also use it to reduce ammonia when I'm drip acclimating newly shipped stock that are sitting in stale water. It seems to reslim stressed fish too. And I use it for freshwater dips.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> If your using RO water Goby, there is no reason to use Prime. The water ha already been stripped of all the bad things.


Ah...now I see where you got that. I edited. Hopefully I didn't confuse him about the RO water. Thanks.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> First thanks to ReefingMadness
> http://www.aquariumforum.com/f67/what-you-might-need-start-your-41978.html
> Then you'll want at least 1 pound of live rock per gallon.Live rock is not necessary for all salt set ups,but if you really want a mandarin and don't want to wait a year to build up a good supply of copods for food ,live rock will help kick start them for you.
> If you're serious about a mandarin try extremely hard to get a captive bred one that will eat mysis shrimp as they do much better than wild caught(and tank raised aren't the same as captive bred).
> ...


I tend to use the terms tank bred, aquacultured, and captive bred interchangably. What's the main difference?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Goby said:


> You're right...but it's nice to have on hand in an emergency. I use a capful of prime every week to reduce nitrates...it seems to work. I can't remember why just off hand. I also use it to reduce ammonia when I'm drip acclimating newly shipped stock that are sitting in stale water. It seems to reslim stressed fish too. And I use it for freshwater dips.


It also tends to drive skimmers nuts.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

NO EMPORER ANGEL IN 29 G! Those fish grow to over 12" and are not really considered reef safe.
Captive(tank) bred are just that bred in captivity .
Tank raised could very well be wild caught young and raised in a tank,not necessarily a bad thing but not "capitive bred".
If you think you are really going to go with corals(reef tank) then you need RO water and nothing needs to be added besides salt mix.
Not to sound mean or condesending,but if you think you can afford a juv. emporer angel(ALL FISH DIE ,the question is when?)then you should just get a much bigger tank to start(even a 75g is to small).I also would not go with such expensive fish (emporer angel) or such sensative fish(mandarin) until you have maintained life in your tank for at least 4 months.Get your clown,a couple shrimp(angel may really enjoy them,YUM!) and see how the tank works out.Once up and running saltwater with a knowledgable keeper is fairly easy,but the cycling is more intense(takes a little longer with out cured live rock)and understanding how your tank uses things like calcium,kH,ph (all will move regulary unlike freshwater) are just the beginning.
I have a 29 g bio cube,it's in my attic as I really didn't think it filtered and skimmed very well(a regular tank was equall if not better and more adaptable)
I don't post anything that seems "harsh" to be mean, but it is a little different,and I can't imagine you'll enjoy watching your angel eat $30-$40 cleaner shrimp anymore than your cichlids eating your crays!There is a "small" learning curve to salt and proper stocking is lesson 1.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

No Angel Fish in a 29g.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Burt_Gummer said:


> Thanks for all the info! I keep having to talk myself back into saltwater since my crayfish are molting and keep getting killed by my chiclids, and it would be nice to have a place to put them. But I think a ten gallon will work fine for that. Using the biocube for that would be a waste.
> 
> 
> I have decided to go with a blue mandarin fish along with a juvenile emperor angel, and a clown fish once I get the tank up and running.
> ...


Check this video out. This fish with a shrimp-mate would work well in a 29g with appropriate substrate and aquascape. Duos such as this are fun and interesting to watch IMO. Shrimp require consistantly low nitrates which may take some time, but for the most part I've found pistol shrimp to be hardy. I still have my original pistol/goby pairs.

randall's goby and pistol shrimp in high def - YouTube


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Your reading to much Goby. Shrimp do not need low Nitrates, they are fine with 30 and under. SPS are the only things that need low Nitrates. =)


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Your reading to much Goby. Shrimp do not need low Nitrates, they are fine with 30 and under. SPS are the only things that need low Nitrates. =)


I admit it...I do my fair share of reading. I'll never have the off-the-cuff knowledge of everything SW that comes from managing a large intricate reef like yours, RM. 

So to clarify: 

To the OP: Like many crustaceans, SW shrimp are sensitive to nitrates. Newly cycled tanks often have nitrate levels considered unsafe for most SW shrimp. Before placing shrimp in your SW tank, I encourage you to learn about their sensitivity to nitrates. My testing kit measures nitrates from 0-180. While many SW fish can thrive in nitrates well above 30, generally speaking, many shrimp cannot. A sudden spike in nitrates even within the safe range may also adversely affect some shrimp, so stable nitrates are also important. It's also worth learning about a SW shrimps need for iodine. With that, there are individuals in forums who will claim to have marine animals, including SW shrimp, surviving in less than ideal conditions. As a general rule I dismiss those claims. Every forum has that individual whose self proclaimed expertise is based on nothing more than a Google search, what happened in his/her own personal FISH tank, and a need to always be right =) 

Here is a link to the shrimp species that I believe is featured in the YouTube video I posted. I bought a Randalls pistol shrimp in 2011 from Live Aquaria and he has done well…even forgave me (reluctantly) for a couple slightly-less-than-brief nitrate spikes well above 30. My skunk cleaner shrimp at the time however, did not. My tank just wasn’t stable enough for him. Today my Randalls pistol shrimp lives with a pair of Watchman gobies. Currently, I keep nitrates at about 10…any less or any more seems to adversely affect something.


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