# Please help me to get started with fishless cycling



## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

I cant get ammonia , not on eBay,not in a local pet shop , just cant get it 

Read on here that cooked prawns can be used instead . 

But i am planning to have live plants in my tank (but not enough to do "silent cycling").

*** Will prawns do any harm to plants ? or should i plant them after the cycling finished ?

*** How much of prawns should i use for 54 litre tank ???

Thank you


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> I cant get ammonia , not on eBay,not in a local pet shop , just cant get it
> 
> Read on here that cooked prawns can be used instead .
> 
> ...



Almost anything rotting in the tank can start a cycle. 

My very strong advice is to get the plants in there right from the start and get them thriving. Then do whatever else. You may just find it doesn't take many plants to have a "silent" cycle. Or say a "hushed" cycle (1/2 silent *old dude)

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I wouldn't use more than one or two. How many plants will be in it?


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I wouldn't use more than one or two. How many plants will be in it?


no more than 10 ...


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I would honestly look into getting more plants.Look on ebay or aquabid or even online stores.Ebay and AB have great deals most the time.There may be people here who can ship to you,but Im not sure if we need to go through customs.It would be worth it to look it up.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> I would honestly look into getting more plants.Look on ebay or aquabid or even online stores.Ebay and AB have great deals most the time.There may be people here who can ship to you,but Im not sure if we need to go through customs.It would be worth it to look it up.


from what ive been reading on here,i undestand,that my t8 15 watt light for 54 litre tank is not enough for most of the plants , or did i get this wrong ?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Not sure if you have "Home Hardware" stores in the Uk, but that's where I found ammonia. (I had lots of trouble finding it too, but found a brand there called "Old Country.") Most stores don't sell it because it can be used to make bombs.

If you find ammonia from a store, don't plant your live plants until the cycle is done, because the ammonia will burn them. They will be fine after though. (I've got live plants in my 10g waiting for the 20g to be done cycling).

As for the light, 54L would be 14 US gallons, and I believe 11.87 UK gallons. So.... depending on the_ type_ of light, you could be ok. For instance, my 20g came with a _standard_ 15W T8 light, but it wasn't meant for plants. I got a Lifeglo 15W T8 that is meant for: live aquarium plants, fish, inverts, salt water tanks or aviary use, so my plants will be fine. (The kelvin rating is like 6700 or something). Once we put that in the fixture, we noticed it was much brighter. (Weird, because it's the same wattage), but I guess they make different lights for different things.

Hope some of this helps! Good luck!


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Done a search on google , and yes , you are right,there are 2 types of light ...

my one is called "Day-Lite" and there are different ones called "Warm-lite".

Warm-lite is for plants ... which have to be installed in front of day-lite , but i dont have the lid for that (its called "Duolux light unit " , only availible for bigger tanks) ...

And,no we dont have "Home hardware" over here , i guess i will just use prawns,and hope they wont kill my plants ...


another question :

*** *When you guys receive plants from shops,do you wash them ? and how ? heard about salt wash or bleach , but then again,heard that it could kill fish . Which one is better and safer to use ? do you use just normal salt (cooking ) or aquarium salt for that ? should i put plants in a bucket full of salt or bleach water and leave them in there for a while and then rinse it well ?*


Thank you !


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I wash any plants that come from shops,because they go through too many people for me to feel they are not contaminated.What I do is make a bleach dip.One part bleach to two parts water.I soak them for a few minutes,then I rinse them under cool tap water and place in a bowl of water with twice the dechlor,then in the tank they go.I do look them over while rinsing,and remove any snail eggs I feel,or algae or leaves that look too bad.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Salt will kill the plants.
Haven't tried bleach yet, but am too afraid too, lol. Pretty harsh stuff.
I'm going to Hydrogen Peroxide my plants in a few weeks when my 20g is done cycling and I go to switch my plants over. (They have Hydra on them.) It comes in a 3% solution. It's pretty good because it breaks down into hydrogen and water. You just dump the HP in a bowl and swish the plants around. The plants will still have to soaked and rinsed really well afterwards as too much HP leftover can kill the good bacteria in the filter.

Many people have had success with bleach dips... but I'm paranoid and am going to try the HP.

Can you just switch your light with the Warm light? (Or do the plants HAVE to have both?) That way, you wouldn't have to get a different fixture. You could also look at different bulb brands. It doesn't have to be the same brand as the fixture. I have a Marinland fixture, but am using a Lifeglo light.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Started adding prawns today , really dont know what i am doing cos there are not a lot of info about cycling with prawns, but i guess i'll just add one prawn a day and see what happens . will receive plants this week aswell


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

sondre said:


> Started adding prawns today , really dont know what i am doing cos there are not a lot of info about cycling with prawns, but i guess i'll just add one prawn a day and see what happens . will receive plants this week aswell


I wouldn't put in more than two, depending on the size you use. It's a small tank, it won't take much. Put them in a pouch of some type or old pantyhose.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I wouldn't put in more than two, depending on the size you use. It's a small tank, it won't take much. Put them in a pouch of some type or old pantyhose.


i had these king prawns in a freezer, they are huge !


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

It is hard to find ammonia over here i must admit, i've heard one of the following do it either B&Q, Focus, Homebase or Wickes (forgot what my friend said now). But i think its pretty pricey from what i heard.

I buy my plants from a supplier on ebay its so much cheaper and they were all great quality as well never had any snail problems or anything with them. (inbox me if you want the link to them they are good and its fast delivery) 

Try and get the Lifeglo bulb (pets at home sell them if i remember rightly they cost about £12-£13 a bulb) it will be the same fitting as your current day light bulb


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

bolram said:


> It is hard to find ammonia over here i must admit, i've heard one of the following do it either B&Q, Focus, Homebase or Wickes (forgot what my friend said now). But i think its pretty pricey from what i heard.
> 
> I buy my plants from a supplier on ebay its so much cheaper and they were all great quality as well never had any snail problems or anything with them. (inbox me if you want the link to them they are good and its fast delivery)
> 
> Try and get the Lifeglo bulb (pets at home sell them if i remember rightly they cost about £12-£13 a bulb) it will be the same fitting as your current day light bulb


I bought my plants on ebay aswell 

i just had a look and you can get lifeglo bulb on ebay  is it better than daylight one ? (sorry if this sounds silly,i am new to this hobby) . 

i gave up looking for ammonia,just going to use prawns


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Most places banned the sale of ammonia in the UK lol.

eBay has some great suppliers, theres a couple id stick to for my plants though

I have a two bulb unit so lifeglo and something else (to lazy to check even if it is 5ft away) the life-glo is a bright light so would be ideal. If not at least you have a spare bulb


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

ok,thanks for taking time to reply , will buy lifeglo light then


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I have a Lifeglo light and it says on the box that it is specifically for aquatic plants (and animals), so it will work with a small tank as long as you don't have plants with high lighting needs.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

holly12 said:


> I have a Lifeglo light and it says on the box that it is specifically for aquatic plants (and animals), so it will work with a small tank as long as you don't have plants with high lighting needs.


oh,thats great then ! i wanted more plants to add to my tank,but was limited because of lighting . 

thanks for info


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Got ammonia,so fishless cycle starts today 

How long does it take ? about 4 weeks ?


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

So,i added 5 ml of 9.5% ammonia to my 54 litre tank,2 hours later done liquid API tests :

ammonia : 8 ppm
NO2 : 2-5 ppm
NO3 : 10-20 ppm

I looked at that "fishless cycle " sticky,and from what i understand,NO2 levels should be 0 !?!? 
AND NO3 should be 0 . 
Is there something wrong in my tank ??? 

i will do water change,that should bring ammonia levels down ...


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Keep dosing as per instructed for a couple of days, it could be a number of reasons for those levels, it can be traces in the water or substrate, any decoration. Keep up the dosing for a couple of days and it should balance out to as per expected. Cycles will vary from tank to tank. Some may only take a couple of weeks some 4 weeks some even longer. You'll only know once you get the needed parameter readings


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

sondre said:


> So,i added 5 ml of 9.5% ammonia to my 54 litre tank,2 hours later done liquid API tests :
> 
> ammonia : 8 ppm
> NO2 : 2-5 ppm
> ...


NO3 is present in most tap waters as a result of agricultural run off and such, but NO2 shouldn't be to my knowledge. If I were you I would test your water (before putting it in the aquarium) for NO2 and make sure there isn't any in there. If there is, you'll want to use a different water source...especially if it's in such high amounts (2-5 ppm is easily beyond lethal to many fish).


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I was going to say the same as Rohkey - test your tap water to see what results it gives you. That could be where the Nitrates are coming from. Not sure about the Nitrites.....


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

i think you are right guys,it must be my tap water,i did 50% water change and 2 hours later done tests, results :

ammonia : 4ppm (gone down,GOOD ! )
NO2 : still the same ...
NO3 : Went up to 40-80 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????so it must be my tap water .

I will do my tap water test,but i believe its got to stay in a jar for 24 hours before testing.

If its in my tap water,what can i do about it ? can i use bottled water from a shop ? (still drinking water)


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

You could test some right away and test some after 24 hours (if you want - just to compare.)

You can buy water or try the Nitrazorb. That's what I use for my Nitrates. It's 80ppm out of the tap, and the Nitrazorb keeps it under 40ppm.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Plants would be my first choice. RO water or purified water is a natural way. I would use no more than a 50/50 mixture. Test it first. You can test now, but testing again 24hrs later is another data point to have, as holly mentioned. Just so you know if it changes or not.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Not sure what nitrazorb is ?

i got some liquid to take nitrates down,but was told that using all these is not very good idea . bottled drinking water is only about £0.20 per 2 litres here ,so it wouldnt be a problem if i had to use it.

Bolram said it could be something to do with what is in tank,gravel,decorations ...etc. i hope not ! tap water tests will tell if its my water.
my kids keep asking when can we add fish,they are not very patient and they get that from me lol .


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Plants would be my first choice. RO water or purified water is a natural way. I would use no more than a 50/50 mixture. Test it first. You can test now, but testing again 24hrs later is another data point to have, as holly mentioned. Just so you know if it changes or not.


what do you mean by "plants would be my first choice" ? 

do you mean its plants that making N03 so high ? or do you mean you would add more plants ?

i got very small tank , 54 litres,its already got lots of different plants,and got few more turning up this week,and there wont be anymore space .

will do the tap water tests now,and same time tomorrow then .


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I meant using plants to mitigate any issues you may have with your tap water.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Its possible that it is the stuff in the tank but very unlikely. Live plants will do good for your tank so dont worry about them. 

Ive used bottled water before and had no problems in using it but became an expensive replacement. When using water to put in your tank leave it to stand for 24-48 hours before putting in the tank this can sometimes help. But unsure why the levels are so high is your area very chalky like it is down here in kent? or more clay?


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Right,just done tap water tests :

Ammonia : 0
NO2 : 0
NO3 : 40-80 !

So it looks like it is my tap water , still dont get why NO2 in tank are so high (2-5 ) ?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Nitrazorb: Nitra-Zorb™ - API

I like it. It works for me as I don't have another water source I can use for my tanks and can't afford to be buying water all the time.

If you can afford to buy water, that works too.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks Holly,looks like its some sort of filter media, i cant use it with my filter , so will have to buy water .will cost me £4 for 50 litres,lucky i havent got big tank


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> Thanks Holly,looks like its some sort of filter media, i cant use it with my filter , so will have to buy water .will cost me £4 for 50 litres,lucky i havent got big tank


or you can do a planted tank and not do water changes and just watch nitrates drop to unmesaureable levels in a few weeks. *old dude


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> or you can do a planted tank and not do water changes and just watch nitrates drop to unmesaureable levels in a few weeks. *old dude


it is planted tank . plants been there for about 10 days,and growing really well,but they dont really do anything to drop nitrates .

i know you dont do water changes and dont use filters,but i just cant see that working for me


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> it is planted tank . plants been there for about 10 days,and growing really well,but they dont really do anything to drop nitrates .
> 
> i know you dont do water changes and dont use filters,but i just cant see that working for me


So you're doing a fishless cycle by adding ammonia with a planted tank and you are getting good plant growth, ammonia is being consumed, and you have nitrates. Which you suppect is coming from your replacement tap water.

Guess what.


there is a highly technical term for that condition.



It's called:





wait for it. 









normal *old dude


To me all that's happening is the plants are busy consuming the ammonia while the aerobic bacteria is building up. Keeping ammonia at bay but in the process the plants are getting all their nitrogen from the ammonia and not the nitrates.

After awhile you should notice that the nitrates will drop down.

No need for special water. The plants will take care of the nitrates once the bacteria has build up.

Same thing happens to me with adding fish slowly. No ammoina but an initial nitrate spike.


still just my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

sondre said:


> Thanks Holly,looks like its some sort of filter media, i cant use it with my filter , so will have to buy water .will cost me £4 for 50 litres,lucky i havent got big tank



I just put a second, tiny filter on my tanks to run the Nitrazorb. Gives the tank a little more filtration and aeration, while bringing down the Nitrates.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Guys,i think my fishless cycle finished ! ? ! In 11 days ....

This is how it went :

Day 1 / 03-07-2011 : 2.5ml Ammonia added
Day 2 / 04-07-2011 : Just waiting
Day 3 / 05-07-2011 : Just waiting
Day 4 / 06-07-2011 : Forgot to do test and add ammonia
Day 5 / 07-07-2011 : Tests : Ammonia 0 , Nitrite 5 , Nitrate 10-20.
........................... 2.5 ml Ammonia added, Test showed 8ppm.
Day 6 / 08-07-2011 : Test : Ammonia 0ppm / 1.25 ml Ammonia added (22:00) .
Day 7 / 09-07-2011 : Test : Ammonia 0.5 pp, Nitrite 5 ppm (5:00)
.......................... : 1.25 ml Ammonia added (12:30), Test showed 4ppm (13:20)
........................... Tests : Ammonia 0.25 , Nitrite 5 , Nitrate 10-20 (21:45)
Day 8 / 10-07-2011 : Bacter life added , no tests,no ammonia added.
Day 9 / 11-07-2011 : Tests : Ammonia 0.25 , Nitrite 5 , 8 drops ammonia added.
Day 10 / 12-07-2011 : Tests : Ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0.5 . 8 drops ammonia added (23:00)
Day 11 / 13-07-2011 : Tests : Ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0 , Nitrate 40-80 (11:00 )

So ammonia and nitrite droped to 0 within 12 hours  guess thats what ive been waiting for . 

* Should i do big water change today and go buy new fish tomorrow then ? 

** How much of water should i change ? its 50 litre tank , would 40 litres be ok to change ?

*** My tap water is high in nitrates , is it ok to add just normal bottled drinking water from a shop ?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

You should do a 50% change and add the water from the shop. Just make sure to do this before you get the fish, preferably a day, so if there's any PH differences it'll buffer itself to a stable PH.

I'm no expert though. Hope someone else has an opinion on it


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would do no more than a 50/50 mixture of any type of bought water. Not knowing what process was used to purify the water, this should make sure that the nutrients that usually come in your tap water will be in your water (the good ones).


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Thank you,
do you mean 50% tap water and 50% from the shop ?
Should i add AquaSafe to tap water as per usuall ?

Guys what is RO water ??? :huh:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

sondre said:


> Thank you,
> do you mean 50% tap water and 50% from the shop ?
> Should i add AquaSafe to tap water as per usuall ?
> 
> Guys what is RO water ??? :huh:


Yes, 50/50 tap and bought water. RO is reverse osmosis. It is a process that will usually end with a neutral ph (7.0), most hardness (gh and kh) stripped as well. RODI adds in de-ionization (DI) that will usually finish stripping the general hardness (gh) and carbonate hardness or alkalinity (kh). RODI is a more severe form of cleaning the water of nutrients. Yes, add aquasafe - I would add just enough for however much tap water you use.


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