# Excel doses ?



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Perhaps I just lack experience/w this or patience but my newly planted tank has very little new growth in it.
It has been three weeks now and as I expected the Rotala have started getting new leaves at the tip. They were cut in half
when pulled out of the tank before I added the new substrate so I expected them to be slow starting as half of them had
no roots and the half/w the roots had no tops. The Crypt has a new sprout and a second just starting. It had lost most of it's leaves
but all of one survived and part of two more did. They now are drooping rather seriously but should be replaced by the new.
I need to remember that this substrate is one(actually two) of the best next to going that high tech dirt from ADA.
Sea Chem Laterite(original because it has the highest iron content) at half a 17lb bag mixed with a 55 oz box of API first layer
"Pure Laterite" in a ten G tank/w two T5 bulbs on it. One 6500K generic bulb and a 6700K True Lumen Flora bulb.
But in a planted tank it is hard to vacuum any aria but the aria's away from the plants so I just don't as the whole tank has a 
plant hear or there in it but this is new substrate/w no silt in between it so that could also be a factor in why the plants are
slow to start up.
The hair algae which I cultivate is hardly showing any growth and it did before the new substrate.
I bought a potted Dwarf Penntwort for the occasion but it has yet to sprout new growth and most of the sprigs which I individually
planted are dead. 5 remain live but not growing visibly. The shop owner where I got it from said it would take at least 2 weeks
because the plants were growing new roots instead of top growth(referring to the Dwarf P.) but it now has been three weeks.
Anyway I used to dose(with a syringe to keep it exact) 1ml (actually the third line past the 1ml) but now have increased it to 1.5
ml and the directions say 1 ml per 10 gallons of water. I have never had a problem/w my RCS from the recommended dose
but I'm concerned that bringing it up too much may affect them as people on here have had it kill them but how much were
they using ?
Will any plant people who use Excel instead of injected Co2 please let me know if this slow growth start up is normal as in the past
when I bought new plants, they didn't take even two weeks to show signs of new growth even when that tank was new with regular
gravel which had no silt or other filler between the gravel.
Forgot to mention that I dose per directions Tetra Pride/API Leaf Zone also.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure, but you can't have a lot of things happening in your tanks, like you have, and expect much more. Once the plants re-acclimate to your tank they should do okay. Some of the plants you refer to don't grow that fast with high light, daily ferts, and CO2. 

Are the plants completely free of any silt that may have come from the new substrate? Why not try DIY CO2? Excel is not a replacement for CO2 and if you wanted to see the effect of CO2 and its affects on things your tank size is perfect for it.

Get some faster growing plants if you want to see fast growth. Nearly any stem will suffice.

What size light fixture do you have and what is the wattage of your bulbs?


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

The fixture is 20", the bulbs say 18" but they are actually less than that...well you know how T5 bulbs are. But they are marked 18W.
So 2 x 18W...one at 6500K a generic T5 bulb and the other a True Lumen Flora bulb at 6700K.
There is also native hair grass, the Pennywort grows in or out of water so it's a direct sunlight type in some cases(and I was told by
the shop owner that it was fast growing and not a Petco BTW). But that puts it at over 3W per G.
Just for the record would you give me your impression as to what Excel is ?
The small round thing near the bottom of the Pennywort is new growth.


And the tops of this Rotala all have new growth.


And this yet to be identified plant has about 1" longer stems.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Excell is a carbon source to help plants grow(not CO2).It is similiar to vodka,vinnegar or vitamin C dosing in reef tanks(although I don't believe it is used to control nitrAtes like the others).
Seachem actually says it is NOT a replacement for co2 and can actually be used along with it.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

coralbandit: first, thank you for the reply.
I would like to focus on a certain point here. I usually use too many words to tell something so it's not at all uncommon for
replies to wander from my intended question...my fault. But I'd like to focus on this part. "Excell is a carbon source to help plants grow"
from what you said. It has been stated dozens and dozens more times on here and other sources that if you have/use high lights
and ferts that you need to add to that EITHER Co2 or Excel. I need to off set (or perhaps I should say balance)the high lights and ferts.
If Excel does "help the plants grow"...then that fulfills my objective. As long as it does balance out the high lights and ferts.
More than likely the Co2 will do a better job of helping the plants grow. After all the plants use it naturally and give off oxygen in return.
Also there is some being given off by the fish in the tank in addition to what is naturally in the water.
But at least for a while I'm stuck/w the ten gallon tanks and so it's not cost effective to invest in a Co2 unit.
I've read so much about DIY Co2 being unreliable/high in mechanical(cleaning I think) maintenance/uneven pressure that I don't
think it's for me. There is another factor here. The fact that the smaller a tank is the harder it is to keep the water quality even.
I'm thinking a 29G might be a good sized tank for DIY Co2 as the pressure fluctuation would not effect it so much as it would
a ten G tank...
Oh well I've been a lot more picky about how much I feed my fish hoping to keep down the phosphates but still dosing API
Leaf Zone(per directions) and Pride per week and Excel per day.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

If you are running high lights the excel won't do the job completely. Its a carbon source but is not a replacement for co2. Excel would also need to be dosed daily to have any real effect as it dissipates after a few hours. My suggestion would be to use both.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The term high light, if that is what you had, DOES NOT work with Excel. That is to say that they will not work against each other and you will still get the benefits of what Excel provides, but it is NOT CO2! So...any ill effects that you would get from high light and not having CO2, Excel will do little to keep those effects from surfacing. Excel will not EVEN help where your CO2 levels were not adequate for the amount of light you had. That means if I wasn't putting enough CO2 in my tank I should not expect Excel to fill the void - doesn't work.

Excel is NOT CO2 and CANNOT take the place of it. It is not a this OR this kind of thing. If it was, everyone nearly would be using Excel that wanted to get the benefits of what CO2 does.

Do this...get a DIY CO2 system going and watch how your plants double their growth rate. Then, and maybe only then, you will understand the difference. Use it as an experiment to see what it does for you. Even if the pressure starts to lower, ect...you have a 10g. even 1 bubble created per second and your plants will not know what hit them. The more you use it and get experience with it, the less issues you have with it. Even with pressurized systems you have to learn through experience.

Plus, if you have ever seen anyone on here say that it is either Excel OR CO2 that you needed with high light, please point that post out to me. I would have shot holes in anything like that immediately.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Long and short is excell is "another version of fert/supplement".Supplement means in addition to.I would go with diy co2 for in heart beat if that was where I was at.
I justed started a presurised co2 on my 180(might almost be even with diy on a 10,as I've got it cranked up),but it is definately worth trying along with.It really isn't one or the other.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Please forgive the delay in answering as my password seems to have gotten corrupted somehow and needed replacing.
Back on-line now. I do thank all three of you for explaining it to me. It will take a while but I will investigate the DIY Co2.
It finally managed to filter through to my brain that the Excel is another fert and that the triangle is incomplete.
I have actually been using it daily. I don't have what I call intense light as they do make(Odyssea) a four bulb T5 fixture
in 20" that would fit my ten G tank. Luckily I couldn't afford such as that or I might have bought it.
The tank has a double bulb fixture on it so I guess especially in a ten that it would be considered high lights. Those fixtures 
come/w bulbs and of course I chose two 6500K out of the choices available. I mentioned it before but I've noticed that in
the more expensive brands they list 6700K and 6500K in the cheaper bulbs. This(and the price) leads me to think that
the bulbs which come/w it are generic in quality. I got a Roseated one and another 6500K as replacement bulbs when I
bought the fixture. I also found that almost no one sells a 6700K in 18" except Odyssea. I bought a True Lumen Flore
bulb which is labeled 6700K though. And have any of you tried these bulbs and found them to be good quality?
They are the only brand other than Odyssea which sells anything in a 6000K in 18".
Aquarium Lighting T-5 HO Florescent Bulbs: AquaticLife T5 HO Natural White 6,000°K Fluorescent Lamps
Had in mind to buy (later) a 24" fixture as EVERYBODY sells a 6700K in 24".
Auban would be proud of my crop of hair algae right now. I went out today and bought two more plants to help use up
some of those nutrients but that doesn't really help to off set the high lights...just gives the hair algae less ferts to use.
Don't really like Wisteria and likely will dump it when the other plants get going well but I got one of those and my
favorite LFS people got me a bunch of Rotala Magenta. The Dwarf Pennywort have a new leaf on two of them so things are
starting to look up. I will cut the hrs. on the lights a bit as I did have them on for 9 hrs to help the plants to start.
Perhaps from 9 to 7.5 hrs. I'll stop running my mouth now...it's just good to be back on-line.

OMG...looky at this...
Posted by Gismo:
Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos


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