# Good resource to find a fish's ideal pH and water hardness



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

I've been testing/researching our water here in the Pacific NW. My API test kit tells me we have a pH of 7.4-7.5, and our city water quality report tells me we have the softest water in the country! 

So our water is slightly alkaline, and VERY soft.

I'm looking for a good resource that will tell me if my fish selections are compatible with my water. Any recommendations for websites where I can easy research this information, or do I just need to wikipedia every species I'm interested in?

Also, I've researched on how to increase water hardness, but I honestly don't understand the gH/kH thing at all. Also most things I saw to increase hardness also increase pH, which I expect I don't want to do, since 7.5 seems pretty good.
Should I even be trying to mess with this stuff, or do I even need to?

Any advice for me?
Thanks


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I wouldn't mess with your water.I'm 7.6 with very ;ow gH&kH and have good sucess with my water.
Some have used "cuttle bones" (for birds) to increase gh.They dissolve very slowly in your filter.
I usually search the fish in general and find many links from distributors.Live aquaria,blue zoo,AC Tropical fish are a couple.I take no one link to be gospel and rather combine all info I can gather.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello Thren...

Unless you plan to keep and breed rare fish, you don't need to be concerned with the chemical makeup of your tap water. You simply treat it to remove the chemicals like chlorine and chloramine the public water people put into the water to make it safe to drink. The majority of fish will adapt to the majority of public tap water. The standard aquarium fish you get at the pet store will easily tolerate a pH of 6.5 to 8. A 7.4 test is fine.

I would concentrate on keeping the tank water pure by following a sound water change routine and not feeding the fish too much. This way, you'll avoid most, if not all the things that cause tankkeepers problems.

Just a thought.

B


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would advise getting a kh test kit to see what you have. Soft water can sometimes have a low kh which can be dangerous in an aquarium. Your kh or carbonate hardness allows your water to resist fluctuations and changes in ph. Without adequate amounts your ph can shift causing stress on your fish. There are ways to bolster it.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Tropical Fish Profiles, covering the care and upkeep of many aquarium tropical freshwater fish
Aquariumlife.net Fish Profiles Database
Look on the colume on the right and you will see that this one does fish and plants.
Tropical freshwater aquarium fish: Find fish
I would not completely trust any one by it's self but would cross reference them. The second one for example says that the max 
temp. on Gambusia's is 66F. In the deep south they live in any water which doesn't dry up at any temp that water happens to be.
In fact they are often found in the most shallow part of the sides of ditches where the temp could be over 100F in the summer
and/w direct sunlight on it.
You might ask just if you wanted to be sure of this but your local pet store likely has the same water as you do in their tanks.
They may do more than just add dechlor to it though.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Ordered the kH test kit.
Thank you all, I feel less concerned about this now overall (although the advice about my carbonate hardness is solid, I remember now reading how high kH buffers the pH). 
It didn't even occur to me that the LFS probably just has treated tap water.... duh! I will need to ask them.
Thanks for the links. I worry because for example one of the fishes I wanted, Kuhli Loach, wants acidic water (5.5-6.5!) and harder water than I have. But the LFS does have these fish. I wonder if they are changing the water chemistry. Regardless I am not attached to this fish, it was just an example.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good deal on ordering the kh kit. I'm not so sure about local fish stores using tap water. I believe this is mostly possible with big chain stores like Petsmart or Petco, but a true "local" Mom and Pop shop may have specialty fish that requires them to do special things to the water like cutting it with RO water or something like that. Especially true if they have saltwater fish. Two of the true local stores I frequent do just like I do and make a ton of RO water to get their water changes done.

Regardless, I NEVER look at any reference to tell me what ph I need for certain fish. It is much, much better to come here or a take your pic forum, and ask what others are doing because in most cases it doesn't really matter what your ph is as long as it remains stable. Take any reference and I will show you many others doing the opposite. 

The TRUE problem is these references and their lack of info in the...oh, by the way, if you don't have this ph it is okay, category. What is left is new aquarists thinking they need to buy chemicals that raise or lower ph and these products are not something to play with unless you understand basics in water chemistry and what your water is really doing when you add these. They can end up killing your fish and draining your wallet.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

So I tested the kH. At 2 drops it was yellow AND it may even have been yellow after 1 drop but the drops add so little color that I couldn't tell what color it was after a single.
In conclusion: Super low kH


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

The KH but also the PH will be raised simply by adding baking soda in very small amounts like quarter teaspoons full
and allow half hr to get distributed well and test before putting more. A 3 is as high as needed. I put mine in the filter
so the filter spreads/mixes it. But my filter has no carbon/purigen etc. that may remove it.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I wouldn't use baking soda. its something you have to adjust with each water change. Best to put a small bag of crushed coral into your filter. Just start with a very small amount test after 24 hours and if needed add a little more.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

susankat said:


> I wouldn't use baking soda. its something you have to adjust with each water change. Best to put a small bag of crushed coral into your filter. Just start with a very small amount test after 24 hours and if needed add a little more.


Didn't know coral would work on the KH so thanks susankat...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree. It just becomes a pain in the butt to constantly add baking soda. You can also put the crushed coral right into your substrate. It also will slowly loose the affect, but at a much, much slower rate.

Is that a API kh test kit?


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Yup, liquid kit not strips. Well I guess the liquid part was obvious since I mentioned drops.

So based on responses, I SHOULD raise my kH with something so I have a pH buffer?
What do I aim for? 3 drops as Raymond suggested? Any differing opinions?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, adequate levels of kh will hold your ph steady and if it does fluctuate, not uncommon, it should return the ph back to where it was. Without it your ph could start to drop and just keep going. The presence of ammonia can cause this.

3dkh is a good number and to me personally, the minimum. 3-5dkh is a good range to stay in.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

I tested the pH of the tank yesterday and had a strange surprise. It's completely bottomed out - like 6.0 or even less, the water simply does not change color at all. Is this from the driftwood??
OR is it from my cycle - currently my ammonia is absolutely off the charts (like higher than 8.0) and my nitrites are also off the charts. So I wait to worry about this until the tank is finished cycling?

Considering both this and my essentially nonexistent kH, should I definitely add coral?
I can put crushed coral in my sump easily.
Something like this?
Or again, wait for cycle to finish?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Definitely add coral as the nitrifying bacteria will not grow as quickly if at all, with this low of a ph level. I would also suggest a 50% water change.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Water with a low kh value will have the ph drop or bottom out in the presence of ammonia and not recover. As mentioned, the low kh values may have an impact to how the cycle proceeds.

You need to add crushed coral or baking soda. Coral will make it where you don't have to add every time you do water changes. You will however, have to test your ph VERY often...at least weekly after your water changes or your fish will die from the drop.

Minimum 3dkh. It will raise your ph also. there are calculators on the internet to help you figure out.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Going to the big box store now, that's all that is open. If they have nothing suitable I will add baking soda for now and order the coral.
Thank you


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Does aragonite accomplish the same thing?


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Found some coral rocks. Not crushed, individual. Seemed better than nothing.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Argonite will raise levels also.In the old days(where I come from) dolomite was readily available also and the prime choice for salt and africans because of it's ability to raise pH and kH.
The actuall coral rock will work,but probly slower(maybe a good thing).It all comes down to surface area and how much water comes in contact with it.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

All right my friends, I need some tips for my next steps.

So far I have only 1/2 cup crushed coral in the sump. The kH has gone to 2, but it's not enough.

Problem is the crushed coral has raised my water pH above my tap. My tap seems about 7.3 and the pH in the tank is about 7.5. I need to add more coral to increase my kH, but I'm really concerned about the pH going up more. Does coral have some pH "cap" or is it a linear increase as I add more?
I don't want the tank pH to be wildly different from my tap pH or water changes are really going to be an issue aren't they?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The pH will continue to rise as you add more cc.There is no magic ingredient to raising only kh in freshwater(easy as pie in salt{already has high pH}).Some use cuttlebones for birds in their filters,I tried these but they didn't disolve real fast(months).
Possibly a product like RO Right would do some good,I use it to remineralise my ro.
My kH is lower than yours and I just live with it now,got 0 GH also!My pH is like 7.6 at the tap,so I too was/am limited to what or how much of anything I can add.
If your pH doesn't swing wildly I really wouldn't worry about your kH.My never really changed despite low kH.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hard to say what your ph really is with nothing to hold it there. It doesn't exist (kh) as it comes out of your faucet and then disappear after it has been a while. Aside from that, it doesn't sound like you would be over 7.6 or so. What is the problem with that ph? Pick any fish and they will have less of an issue with a slightly higher ph than a ph that bounces all over the place or bottoms out. 

Again, the most important part is that it is stable. Go back to what the original question was in this thread....it doesn't really matter what any of those sources say when it comes down to it.

We waste so much time on what ph we have, especially new aquarists. I did the same thing when I first started, but instead of doing anything just started reading and this site was one of the ones that led me down the right road and I stopped worrying about ph. Never looked back.

FYI, crushed coral is what is used in substrates for Afican cichlids. They like their ph at 8.2 or so and this is about where crushed coral will top out.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

I was only trying to get it to 3-5kH because that's what you guys seemed to think I should do. If it's not THAT important to do so, I'm just going to leave it with the 1/2 cup crushed coral and 2kH.
I wasn't really worrying that much about it until it seemed that I must have 3-5kH, and then it became a concern for me.
I can't get to that kH without raising my pH above my tap water, which I assume is going to cause issues when I do water changes and am adding lower pH tap water to higher pH tank water. Or is it that with 3-5kH, adding lower tap water is not going to cause a swing.
So... I should just let it alone.
Is this what you are saying, or am I misunderstanding??
I mean really I would love to just let it alone. The coral I have in there at least does "something". I could probably add 1/4 cup more and get to 3kH.


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

The add of coral is better. One need not have to worry for a long time. One can see how the stone is small and when it must be replaced. On the buffering can be relied upon. I've done it, with Rügen chalk. (self collected)
I have the same problem.
Chemnitz, Ore


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Threnjen said:


> I was only trying to get it to 3-5kH because that's what you guys seemed to think I should do. If it's not THAT important to do so, I'm just going to leave it with the 1/2 cup crushed coral and 2kH.
> I wasn't really worrying that much about it until it seemed that I must have 3-5kH, and then it became a concern for me.
> I can't get to that kH without raising my pH above my tap water, which I assume is going to cause issues when I do water changes and am adding lower pH tap water to higher pH tank water. Or is it that with 3-5kH, adding lower tap water is not going to cause a swing.
> So... I should just let it alone.
> ...


Nobody ever said to alter that part. Just saying that in the process of doing so the ph goes up a tad, no worry. Get to 3dkh minimum. Doing water changes should not cause much of an issue but you will need to check kh a few times in a row to see if it is still holding at that level. You will have to add more cc at times, but it won't be every water change. You will be checking the kh after water changes to better understand how the effectiveness of the cc starts to slide a little so you know about when/where to add more.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Got it. Aim for 3kH with the cc, and stop worrying about the pH entirely. I understand now.
Thank you, as always.


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

Finding a fishes ideal everything is easy... read a book! Baensch atlases are great... and if its a cichlid or a catfish... tons of great material out there.

On the buffering capacity of water...
Don't worry about the numbers unless you are trying to breed something or keeping fish that like extremes. (tanganyikans keep over 8, apistos like it 6)

and fluctuating pH...
Regular water changes will replenish the buffering capacity of the aquarium. Unless you are grossly over stocked, you will not run into problems with a dropping pH if you are changing an appropriate of water during your water changes.

And most importantly, everytime you buy a fish, ask the store if they keep it in straight tap water or whether they modify their water. If the store is not really close to you, ask for the particulars on their water. In a store I've never been to before, I'll even ask what their water change schedule is; and if it isn't very often, I'll ask them to test the pH. I've had stores do double takes when they see their pH is in the mid 6s. "Oh, is that why the last shipment of fishes died..." pH shock can be lethal!

Hope this helps.


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