# Considering ro/di - do I need it?



## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

I live in San Antonio where the water is rock hard. If I use water straight out of the tap, the inside of the tank is like sandpaper and white film covers everything. I can't stand it, even if it is okay for the fish. 

We have a water softener, but I understand I shouldn't use softened water for my tanks. For my planted tanks, I've been refilling four 5-gallon water bottles at the grocery store every week. I use a ratio of about 4 to 1 filtered water to tap water to maintain Ph at about 7.2 and some level of natural mineral content that doesn't turn the inside of my tanks to chalk. 

At $6 per week, a ro/di system would pay for itself in about 6 months. My question is, do I need a ro/di system or is there some other option I should be considering? if I do get ro/di, would it make sense to install it after the softener, or before?

Thanks for your advice.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I say go for it, anytime you can save money its worth it. And you would install before the water conditioner.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

What do you mean inside the tank is like sandpaper? 

Hard water shouldn't cause a white film. I don't think the water hardness is the issue, I think there might be something else going on. Is the tank new? New fish lately?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Rufus' Mom said:


> I live in San Antonio where the water is rock hard. If I use water straight out of the tap, the inside of the tank is like sandpaper and white film covers everything. I can't stand it, even if it is okay for the fish.
> 
> We have a water softener, but I understand I shouldn't use softened water for my tanks. For my planted tanks, I've been refilling four 5-gallon water bottles at the grocery store every week. I use a ratio of about 4 to 1 filtered water to tap water to maintain Ph at about 7.2 and some level of natural mineral content that doesn't turn the inside of my tanks to chalk.
> 
> ...


IMHO IME No!!!!!!!

Use peat moss in the substrate. 

I have had tanks run for 6-8 years in cities with very hard water. My current water comes from a limestome aquifer as well. Kh with peat moss in the substrate stayed at 4 degrees for over two years. 

PH in all my tanks Fw and marine are 8.4-8.8 yet even fish requiring low pH soft water thrive for years. PH rises with reduced CO2. So with peat moss preventing kH rise and plants lowering co2 the pH rises. But low pH and constant KH is hardly harmful to the fish.

Check out the link in my signature for more thoughts.

my .02


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

I run a RO/DI. It's a little expensive up front, but with the loot I've put into my tank, and the "bond" I have with my guys, I consider it well worth it. Clean water with no chemicals. Make sure you add your minerals and buffers correctly tho! I just found out I've been mixing mine without bumping the KH high enough. And I'm thinking with a quality unit, you won't need any additional softener. I'm on well water and it comes out 0 tds. Plug and play


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Peat won't lower it that much, and it needs replaced after a while as it will start decaying and will cause problems in the long run. RO/DI is the safest way to go. If you do want to run peat, put into bag and stick into filter. Easier to change that way.

Fishguy2727 its probably a calcium build up that she is talking about, and yes it does feel rough.


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## Sasquatch (May 29, 2011)

Aerating the water will bring the PH down. My well water is off the chart straight out of the faucet but 10 minutes of aeration brings it down to 7.5 or so! if that doesnt help maybe a CO2 injection?
I top my tank off with RO/DI water and when doing a water change I use 4 parts RO/DI to 1 part well water. Also dont waste your money on any PH down chemicals. 
DO a test with your water and see if aerating it helps!

I used peat moss once to try it..It didnt help enough so I ended up tossing it!


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## Chrisfrey007 (Oct 5, 2011)

I've been renting in apartment complexes for over 3 years now and just last week I bought a kitchen faucet to garden hose adapter and and an RV drinking water filter (purchased at Walmart in the auto section). The filter connects straight to the garden hose and removes chlorine and a bunch of other different things. So now when I fill my tanks the water is filtered before it even enters the tank straight from the faucet.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

I basicly run the RO/DI into 5 gallon buckets :

Weight out 9 grams of Equilibrium, mix in cup and pour into 5 gal,
stir for awhile, test..GH this will get you 9 drops on an API test, just under 150ppm 

Add 2 1/2 grams alkaline buffer, mix, test KH this will get it just under 100

Add .8 gram acid buffer, mix, test PH this will get you about 7 - 7.2

Run a hot bath, and place buckets in water to heat, use thermometer. It will take about 10 minutes with stirring, to hit 80 degrees. 

The above being a starting place, adjust "recipe" accordingly. 

Chemical free!! and always perfect before it goes in the tank, no stress for the fish!! win/win..

(There is always a good bit of time inbetween each step for me, and I test each step as I do it. It works for me but as always, use at your discretion)

Not to mention your water may be different comming out of the RO/DI so, the above is just an example. You'll have to tweak it to fit your requirments. - Nereus


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Is there some reason you feel you need the 7 or so ph? Unless you have sensitive inverts or maybe keeping Discuss (still a tad high for that), nothing else really needs it.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

a water softener is fine, however you need a sediment filter between the softner and the fish tank water supply.

I would get an RO/Di if you have hard water, my tap is 8.8ph and I keep SA cichlids which require soft water, I would get it, I own 3 RO/DI systems and love each and every one of them.

You can also further the investment and get an RO/Di system with ATLEAST a 4g holding tank thus making RO water available for your own home needs(eating,cooking.cleaning,making ice) and let me tell you there is sandpaper like grit in the tank, its from the evaporation of previous times before. 

I run US water system RO/DI units......do not buy an RO/DI for fish use or from a fish supply place(LFs whatever) you pay double to triple the price if you order them for or thru fish.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

Don't do peat, it wil discolor the water for the short amount of time it does anything.

Don't use all RO/DI if you decide to go that route, you take out all the good as well as the bad. Use half RO and half tap. This truly softens the water while still leaving enough of the good stuff in for it to still be stable.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

IF you do get an RO unit, check out Water Tanks, Plastic Tanks, RV Tanks, Custom Plastic Tanks, Poly Tanks, Storage Tanks for a holding tank/storage tank for your tank water supply, this will allow you to heat the water and chemically treat it if needed(med's,buffers,ferts,ect) I keep a 45g on hand for my 75g and a 100g one for my 210g.


Fishguy has a point, however you will need to get a very good test kit that will include the GH/KH test, I found that the SERA master kit for FW is the best investment ive made as far as water quality gear goes, I paid 65 I think from marinedepot for mine but I did notice that the tetra gh/kh kit was slightly off then the SERA kit and another kit I used but dont recall the name.

Youll basically have to test and test and test to get the right mix, tap water parameters change from time to time so that method will ALWAYS require the barrage of testing and mixing to get the right brew for that PWC(reason I use acid and alkaline buffers and equilibrium by seachem)


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Nereus7 said:


> I basicly run the RO/DI into 5 gallon buckets :
> 
> Weight out 9 grams of Equilibrium, mix in cup and pour into 5 gal,
> stir for awhile, test..GH this will get you 9 drops on an API test, just under 150ppm
> ...


Do you reside in a house or apt/condo? get a holding tank for your RO water, cut out that bathtub mess, makes it much easier.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm in a house. I plan on getting a bigger tub once I upgrade my tank. The 5 gal buckets work for now, and don't break my back too bad. As far as the bath tub goes, it beats using an aquarium heater. Just drop 3-4 five gallon buckets in there, draw a hot bath and in about 10 minutes you're at 80 degrees.


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## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. 

The rough surface is just like the one that accumulated in my unused toilets when the softener stopped working. I think it's accumulated limestone or calcium deposits. It also accumulates anywhere the water splashes, like around the filter and on the glass cover. It's just a total pain to clean. My choices are either gallons of filtered water, or gallons of vinegar and elbow grease. I'll take the water. 

I've tried peat in the filter and in the substrate. I don't like the stained water look, I like to move my plants, and it can't keep up with the new hard water that comes with the water changes. 

I haven't been all that scientific about measuring or managing my Gh/Kh, just using a consistent ratio of filtered to tap. I guess I'll need to order a kit so I can at least monitor it an have a ballpark idea where it is. I've been going on the assumption that anything is better than "off the chart", which is where it was when I last measured long ago. 

Thanks again for all the feedback. I think it's a buy. I just need to find the best price and features. Any suggestions?


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

well how big is your tank? youll have to get a storage tank so you can do a PWC without the bathtub yet again and to be honest RO systems take a while to produce a filtered gallon pending on the per day ratio.

As I said before I have a 100g and a 45g storage tank for two seperate tank set ups. Id check with us water they had the best bang for the buck and I got two of em running here and one is a portable unit so I can give my clients top off water.


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## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

I have a 10g, a 29g, and a 55g, but i also have four 5-gallon water bottles that I can use for storage since I won't be using them to haul filtered water anymore. For temp, I don't do the bathtub thing. I usually boil a gallon or so and mix as needed to get the right temp in the winter. In the summer, all I have to do is store it in the garage and then maybe let it cool off a bit in the house before I do my change.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

Yea I got the 100gpd unit. I need a booster but, I just let it fill the 5 gallon home depot buckets, then put the buckets full of water, into the hot tub. And she's good to go. I imagine if I had a big "food grade tub" I'll go back to using the aquarium heater but, it works like a charm for the time being 

Actually once I get a bigger tub to fill, I'll probably get the "piggy back" membrane and double my output. But, I gotsta up grade my tank size and everything that goes with it.


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## Robin Roy (Jun 28, 2012)

Sure thing


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I make over 100g of RO water every week. I hook it right into my faucet on my sink in the kitchen and let the new water flow directly into a 32g plastic garbage can. If I am using the water right away all I have to do is adjust the temp going into the unit to get warmer water out. In the Winter time when the water is cooler from sitting in the house I will take about .5g of very hot water from my tap and add to each bucket before I pour it into the tank. I don't do 100% RODI water to my tank and never will so adding tap is fine with me.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> I make over 100g of RO water every week. I hook it right into my faucet on my sink in the kitchen and let the new water flow directly into a 32g plastic garbage can. If I am using the water right away all I have to do is adjust the temp going into the unit to get warmer water out. In the Winter time when the water is cooler from sitting in the house I will take about .5g of very hot water from my tap and add to each bucket before I pour it into the tank. I don't do 100% RODI water to my tank and never will so adding tap is fine with me.


for tanks with these kind of measurments is 100% RODI water best? 
pH: 6, 0-4 dH


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

zero said:


> for tanks with these kind of measurments is 100% RODI water best?
> pH: 6, 0-4 dH


Some do it, but you do have to add things back. I do only 50/50. That puts enough nutrients in the water and maintains my kh level at a safe level. Kh buffers your ph and keeps it stable.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

FWIW API makes an inexpensive combined kh and gh kit. Actually just two kits in one box.

my .02


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Yeah and its not accurate enough to depend on. you get what you pay for.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

Uh oh, I use API! What brand do you recommend? Is there a way to "cross-over" GH, into TDS? Being that my RO/DI has a TDS meter, it would be a way of double checking whenever a new GH/KH test kit is bought, for consistency.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Accurate enough for most of our purposes. What standard would you use to say one test is more accurate than the other? Cost? I bet you run both tests and the middle of the difference is probably closer to the true reading. Many of these things come down to the person conducting the test. I can say API is more accurate and someone else can say some other test is.....what would either side use to prove it?


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

Agreed. API is fine for the basics of fw chemistry needs. Now if you are testing and dosing calcium in a reef tank, yeah, invest in something better than API. But their KH and GH is fine.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

basics but when dealing with everything less the salinity it helps to invest in professional grade kits.

Your TDS meter wont do that and not really a way since the TDS changes every day sometimes multiple times a day depending on the water treatment plants schedule. I use my TDS not only to monitor the water quality but also my filter life of the RO filters.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

I am my water treatment plant 

All my R0/DI comes out O tds, anything added is by me. I should try dipping the TDS meter in my bucket once it's all balanced and see what it says. That way if I switch up test kits, and get a different reading using the same measurments of what I add, I'll know something's up. Plus I'm on well-water so the treatment plant never gets to me.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

If you have CO2, super lighting, etc. then yes, you MAY need to know some things in more detail than an API kit. But again, for most uses in fw (and even sw) API is fine.


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