# red tail catfish



## Captain (May 30, 2012)

are readtail catfish aggressive


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

They will grow near 5 foot in length and will pretty much eat anything they can get their faily large mouths around so yes they are aggressive and are also very energetic, it needs an aquarium in the 400-500 gallon range atleast and I personnally still think that's too small for a fish that's alittle over a foot in length shorter long than I am tall


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## Kehy (Apr 19, 2011)

I would say they really are not appropriate for any aquarium, no matter how large. It would require a MASSIVE, several thousand gallon tank to let it grow anywhere near its full potential, and stunting (skeleton stops growing, internal organs keep growing) is essentially inevitable. If you have a chance to buy one, I really don't recommend it. Their size doesn't just give them problems, they can be powerful enough to break tanks - do you want x gallons of water flooding your house?


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

They are predators, and will probably get larger than you. If I had a pet shop, I would not sell them, and I believe no ethical aquarium store should.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

IMO, there never should have been a point where you could ask this question. They should have been illegal many years ago. Can you get your hands on one pretty easily?


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## Bigmike (May 18, 2012)

Saw one for sale about a week or two ago. He was about 8inches and they had him with some gar pike..........


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## Bigmike (May 18, 2012)

And I agree, shouldn't be able to buy them at all BUT some people will sell you anything to make a dollar.


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

I am often frustrated by bold blanket claims about such fish.
"Red Tail Catfish (RTC) should be outlawed! RTCs should NEVER be sold to aquarists, RTCs won't work in any size tank, RTCs get 6 ft long. etc."


I heard the same on 3 forums when I first started inquiring about my shovelnose Sturgeon.
On two forums I was demonized for being such a horrible person to own a fish that "will get 12 ft long and should NEVER be put in a tank" etc etc.


Lets be real here folks. The people of this forum are a good group of knowledgeable folks.
It is so easy to jump on the bandwagon of bold blanket statments when one wants to be responsible fish keepers and is sick of seeing fish abuse.

But I appeal to us all to take the time to educate and inform rather than post blanket statements that are based in truth, but not entirely true.

Before posting things like this, lets find out some details.

For instance: Most every fish forum out there had an anti sturgeon opinion at one time.
They all made these blamket statements, that while in the right context, were true, but no one took the time to find out the details and explain things.

Yes, there are sturgeon that can reach 12/15 ft. Yes, many are illegal to own.
Yes, it would be absolutely wrong to own most sturgeon and keep them in an aquarium.
Yes, 99% of all home aquariums would be far to small for most sturgeon.

HOWEVER...........
Almost without exception, the sturgeon sold in the US in aquarium stores are Sterlet sturgeon, and on a very rare occasion a shovelnose or diamond sturgeon can be found.

Of those three, the sterlet gets the largest at about 4.5 ft MAXIMUM in the wild. Rarely ever does the sterlet get over 3.5 in captivity, and with this we are talking typically in multi-thousand gallon ponds.
The diamond is slightly smaller.
The shovelnose rarely ever gets over 3.5 ft in the wild, and 2.5 to 3 ft in captivity.
They also grow extremely slow.
In one years time my Shovel has put on MAYBE 1/4 inch in my 150gallon tank.

This fish will be perfectly fine in a 150 for quite some time, and when he gets large enough will be fine in the 750 that is planned for our next renovation.
In a tank with a 9.5 ft by 5 ft bottom, is it still accurate to say a sturgeon that "MAY" reach 3 ft in 20 years is too small and irresponsible? Heck, my clown knife will get larger than that and likely be long gone before then. (I don't know the CL lifespan, but suspect its much shorter than a sturgeon.)

I said all that to say that while I agree it is important to inform people that fish such as a RTC are absolutely not suitable for MOST people/aquariums. For the sake of truth, and credibility, one should take the time to educate further.

Is it wrong for EVERY single person out there to won an RTC? NO!

Sure the RTC gets large. But really, they usually max out at about 4.5 ft but can reach 5 ft.
They can very easily go from 2 or 3 inches to 24 inches within one year, and can reach 30 inches in 2 to 3 years.

Does this mean they should be outlawed? No one should have them? No, lets not be untruthful.
It does mean that probably 95% of aquarists should bot get them, but simply because that 95% will be unlikely to start out with a 100+ gallon tank and have a 1000 gallon tank ready within less than a year and a 3000 gallon tank/pond for its lifetime.

The growth does slow down when they reach the 24 to 32 inch range.
It's not uncommon for a RTC to still be around 32 inches at ten years old.

So realistically, If someone starts out with a 120gallon tank, and can provide a 1500 within the first year, then they would be perfectly fine for a good 8 to 10 years. That gives plenty of time to build that pond to house the RTC for the rest of his life.

TO SOME people this is so absurd it's like suggesting they build a space elevator and gravity free apartment for martian tourists when we make alien contact.
When you live in a rented 2br apartment and are thinking your 30 gallon tank might be a little too big, this would be crazy.

But there are MANY people who start out with 100+ gallon tanks and look at their 150/180 and think, "Man, this thing is WAY to tiny, I want a big tank." There are a large number of people who have no problem with putting an 800 gallon tank in, or building a concrete1500 with clear front display. There are even more folks who can/will do a nice pond in a basement or outbuilding.

Heck, out of all the aquarium forums out there on the web, the largest one Ive ever seen by far, is a forum for people with these kinds of setups. How many fish forums can claim a membership of over 91 thousand members? That means a LOT of people who have the capability to house fish such as these.

Why should a fish owner who keeps 5 guppies in a 20 gallon tank have the right and support to do so, and the fish owner who keeps a red tail catfish, two stingrays, and a florida gar in a 5000 gallon tank be treated as an irresponsible bad person who should not be allowed to keep HIS choice of fish?

Why should the person who chooses to keep a betta in a 10 gallon tank be applauded and the person who keeps a 14 inch pacu in an 800 be demonized?


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

meBNme- I understand your frustration about blanket statements. Personally I don't see a problem with a person keeping a Sturgeon or a RTC if they really understand it's requirements and are able to care for them, and you should be able to ask questions about their care. I do think though that there are much less than 5% of aquarium keepers out there who have a suitable tank for such a fish or even the means to build one. Maybe one in a 1000 is a bit closer. 

On the whole I think the posts made here were pretty fair. As far as I know there is only one species of Red tailed Cat and it gets huge and eats a lot, therefore is messy. Any way you look at it they are going to require a huge tank. Many will not reach full potential in size but even if this in some cases is natural (not all people are the same size) in a large majority of the cases this is because they live in cramped conditions or die before before they get the chance to. The question of banning their sale does not have so much to do with the few who are able to look after them but the thousands who buy them and are not able to care for them. Maybe if you order one from a specialist that is one thing but it can hardly be considered ethical for your average local fish store to be selling them to the general public for their home aquariums.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Ultimately, it comes to knowledge. I'll stand by my statement that no pet shop should stock and sell these fish, or other large species. They should not be found in Pet-This and Pet-That. 
If they are found through specialist dealers and can't be purchased on a whim, go for it. No intelligent person is going to buy a 'monster' fish with all the hassles of online buying, the costs, the shipping etc unless they have thought it through.
But many of these fish are attractive when young, and dirt cheap. A lot of the big nasty cichlids have 3000 babies a pop, and it's cheap to raise them to 1-2 inches where they can be sold. 
It's clear from the questions on a forum like this that many shops are selling monster fish to naive and lazy buyers with 10 to 30 gallon tanks, never telling them what they have bought. And here, I will ruffle some feathers - the fish will die, a shame, the aquarist will be discouraged, a shame, the fish will have a nasty life, a shame, but what really matters is that big fish get released into the wild by naive and lazy people, a tragedy. The pet trade needs to think ahead past next Thursday and police itself on these things, or government will legitimately step in and police it in ways we won't like. And they will be justified.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

Redtails (among many other fish) don't belong in home aquariums, with effectively no exceptions (although I am sure there are one or two). They have nothing to do with sturgeon, so I am not sure why we needed a book...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

My comments are based on first-hand experience with what happens when people who buy these fish that get excessively large don't have the smartness to do the right thing (euthanize) and do the idiotic thing instead and release into our waterways when the fish has gotten too large or whatever.

I think it is the aquarium industry that drives what would be called a need for these species. If they never had been available, people wouldn't know enough of them to want them and there would never be a problem. So as long as someone is willing to buy, they will continue to be available and likely to be a problem.

Nobody signs paperwork to buy these fish, so it doesn't really matter if someone is capable of keeping it or not. Personally, I could care less about whether it is healthy for the fish to live in too small of a tank or not....I would rather it die slowly than the alternative I mentioned above. Maybe if there was some process of buying them where people had to sign agreements of what has to be done with these type of fish when they are no longer wanted and what the fish can do if not adhered to, it would be different. Maybe not.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

It wouldn't be different. Many places do that for things like reptiles, especially the illegally sold baby turtles, and it makes no difference. It only takes one irresponsible person to do the harm, even if thousands always do the right thing. Until stores stop carrying them they will be sold. Until wholesalers stop carrying them the stores won't stop. Until they are illegal the wholesalers will still sell them. Even if they are illegal if someone really wants one they will get one (I have customers who have illegal animals like piranhas, caiman, monkeys, sugar gliders, the illegal arowanas, etc.).


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## Captain (May 30, 2012)

alright thanks for the help


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Poor Captain probably got more than he bargained for with that question. 

I thought about the postings above last night while I was driving through a muggy night. I was 'live and let live' on my posting, but then again,. I am far north of most of you. If you were to release a 'monster fish' in my habitat, it would destroy for a few months at most before it encountered temperatures it couldn't survive. If I were in the US, I think I might see it differently, since while a few fools may release small tropical fish into the wild, a lot of them seem to ask about releasing really big tropicals.
Given that every oversized predatory fish is a potential invasive, we may have to start thiking like the Australians sooner than later. There's always a black market as greed finds a way, but at least if there is no "accidental market" we're better off.

It's fascinating that bristlenoses, rainbow cichlids and many barbs are readily ordered by stores, but the stores get common plecos, oscars and bala sharks instead. It's as if they bought a fish book from 1958, and they purchase based on what was available back then. They never seem smart enough to see that other, smaller alternatives have the same behavior and stay at 3-4 inches.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

navigator black said:


> Poor Captain probably got more than he bargained for with that question.


lol, yeh, sorry captain you jumped into the middle of a hot subject. It's good people ask questions about these things as it helps to educate people.

I think the environmental dangers of invasive species has been well covered. While it may be the lesser issue, I don't think we should ignore the welfare of the fish. Whether it be a cat, dog or a fish if you choose to keep a pet you do have a moral and usually legal responsibility to care for it properly. As for euthanasia, when it becomes impossible to care for a pet it may be the only answer in some cases, but to intentionally buy a monster fish that you intend to euthanize when it gets too big to me is kind of like buying a Great Dane puppy that you plan to put down when it gets big.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

All you have to do to get a full grasp of things is come up and fish on the Potomac River. When you catch your first Snakehead you can feel the need to shut down nearly all exotic fish importation....at least those that could have the potential to cause devastation of an eco-system.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm the type that won't even buy a fish specifically to cycle a tank - I believe if you buy a fish, you care for it for as natural a lifespan as your aquarium keeping skills will allow. Everything only gets one life, and the welfare of captive fish is a concern of mine.
But, I have learned I am the minority, and I'd rather see someone shooting their red tail rather than dumping it in nature. I don't think the dangers of wild release are as well known as that - if people don't read and inform themselves, everything has to be relearned, constantly. Judging from many of the comments I read on forums, a lot of people can't be bothered to learn. And so, it does no harm to repeat things sometimes.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

When I say the the environmental dangers of invasive species has been well covered, I mean that other people have made intelligent comments about it in this thread already so I was just mentioning the aspect of fish welfare. I agree it it good to keep bringing up the danger to natural habitats when fish are released places they shouldn't be, it's something people should learn about, and be reminded about.


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## Captain (May 30, 2012)

ok thanks but it died a month ago


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## fishboy (Jul 15, 2012)

redtails need a bare MINIMUM of 500 gallons and are predatory, but not agressive and can be kept with most very large fish including gars, sturgeons, tiger fish, and pacus


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

The fact it died is unfortunately predictable - it is the fate of most large aquarium fish in small tanks to die well before their time. With red-tails, pacus, sturgeons, tiger fish and such, the hobbyist is in the predator role, and all we do is play with our food for a while.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Please don't get another one.


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## fishboy (Jul 15, 2012)

meBNme has a point. why should a person with 10 cardinals in a 20 long be applauded and the person with 3 pacus and an RTC in a 5,000 be frowned upon? people can have big or tiny fish, its their choice


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

If you have a 5000, get a redtail from a specialist dealer. But don't get one from a shop down at the strip mall, from someone who doesn't tell you you need a 5000 gallon tank.
You should know the full size of every fsih you even consider buying, but a lot of aquarists are too trusting of the shop or unmotivated to do a little research, and that's where it goes wrong.


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## fishboy (Jul 15, 2012)

meBNme said:


> I am often frustrated by bold blanket claims about such fish.
> "Red Tail Catfish (RTC) should be outlawed! RTCs should NEVER be sold to aquarists, RTCs won't work in any size tank, RTCs get 6 ft long. etc."
> 
> 
> ...


People can keep their choice of fish. It's their tank!


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