# Advice On First Saltwater Setup



## jmdub85

I currently have a 20g aquarium in my garage that used to be setup as a tropical tank. I have moved to a 37g tank for that and am considering using the 20 to start my first saltwater setup. I have a few questions now and certainly will have many more as time goes on. First, regarding live sand and rock. Is using these better than using dry rock and crushed coral? I know the tank will cycle faster using live but once the cycle is complete are the benefits that substantial? I don't have a problem waiting a month or two for the cycle to complete. Next is filtration. In my research it seems I can skip a protein skimmer as long as I do weekly water changes. What about any other type of filtration? I use a canister on my freshwater setup but know a lot of people use a sump system on saltwater systems but is that overkill for such a small tank? I have looked at the Marineland Maxi-Jet for circulation. My next question is regarding lighting. What special considerations do I need to make here? I don't know if I would try corals or not but may want to give that a try also. Finally regarding stocking the tank. I was thinking just a couple small fish but I know my girlfriend is going to want clownfish which I like as well. In looking online it sounds like two is the max. I wouldn't consider going over two fish but would two clownfish be too much?

Thanks in advanced.


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## jmdub85

Well I think I am going to do a 20 gallon long. I could do a 29 gallon but I like the look of the long better and they have the same surface area so unless anyone thinks there is a huge advantage to the 29 I will go with the 20 long. For rock, I am still confused about dry rock. I can buy this for a reasonable price locally (South Seas Base Rock) If I place this in my tank and allow it to cycle will this rock become live with beneficial bacteria like buying live rock to start? Should I just toss a shrimp in the tank to start the cycle? Would it be better to use a liquid product designed for starting the cycle? It seems like the shrimp would make a mess without having any mechanical filtration. For powerheads I am now looking at the hydor koralia 425. Would one be enough or would I need two?

Thanks


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## Reefing Madness

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## catfisherpro

I use a 20g long an I have a 10g sump for it I used live sand an rock an it cycled in about 4days. Dry live rock is nice on price but can take a while to become beneficial put it straight into the tank an ph will rocket up. I also used a liquid bacteria on couple other tanks I did


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## jmdub85

Thanks for the advice. Here is what I am thinking so far.

20 gallon long tank and stand
100 watt Aqueon Pro heater
2 Hydor Koralia 245 powerheads (is this too much flow for the 20 long?)
This dry rock and sand combo 20 Lb Nano Combo They say to add 20 pounds of sand. Is that enough or should I order more? They also have a liquid bacteria starting product. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Still am not sure about a light fixture. I want to get something I will be able to keep some corals with in the future. I have looked at both the fluval and marineland reef ready led fixtures. Anyone have experience with them? They are a little expensive but I have a marineland aquatic led fixture on my freshwater planted tank and I love it. The built in timer on the marineland is a nice feature. 

The only other thing I think I will need is an RO/DI unit. What does everyone recommend? I was trying to do this somewhat inexpensively but I didn't think about having to purchase an RO/DI. I prefer to wait until I have the money to spend to do this right rather then try to do it cheap and fail. If anyone has ideas on light fixtures and RO/DI setups that will do the job but not cost an arm and a let let me know. 

Thanks again


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## Reefing Madness

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## coralbandit

20L are 30".


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## jmdub85

I am open to any suggestions on the lighting. I haven't looked much into corals yet but I don't want to spend money on something then decide I want to keep corals and have to replace the lighting. I would start out with some of the easier ones to keep. The 20 long is 30 inches wide. I originally was planning to just keep a couple fish but after seeing some of the corals in tanks on this site I know I am going to want to give it a shot.


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

Thanks for the links! I really like the price and features of that first one. Have you ever used one? I am wondering how loud the fans on it will be. This is going to be in my living room.


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

Thanks! I went ahead and purchased the T5 fixture above. I am about to order my power heads. Should I go with two 425's, two 240's or one of each? Not sure if the two 425's will be too much flow.

Thanks


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## coralbandit

You could do either.Power heads(circulation) can be upto 30 times tank volume.A timer would allow you to run both or each for periods of time.Mine run on every 15 minutes then off 15 minute during my lighting cycle.You could get the larger (425) and run them opposite of each other(one on/one off then switch with seperate timers).


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## jmdub85

Update:

I purchased a stand and got the stand, tank, and light fixture in place. The two 425's and heater arrived so I put them in last night and filled with tap water just to make sure everything is working. It's been full for 24 hours and no leaks so I guess it's time to drain and prepare to put the sand, rock and saltwater in! I have the two powerheads in the upper rear corners pointing to the opposite front corners in an "X" shape. One is pointed slightly down and one slightly toward the surface to increase surface agitation. Does this sound right? I ended up not getting the marco rock because I found a big sale locally on the carib sea base rock and also purchased 40 pounds of carib sea aragonite sand. I figure I will need about 30 pounds but the 40 pound bag was on sale as well. I haven't ordered my RO/DI yet but I will probably just use distilled water for my first fill and hopefully will have the RO/DI before time for the first water change.


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

Well I just filled the tank last night. All the sand and rock is in and the water has cleared up. I snapped a quick cell phone picture. I checked tonight and the specific gravity is a little low so tomorrow I will raise that and then I just need to add an ammonia source to start the cycle! It's getting closer! Thanks for all the help so far. Here is the picture. Let me know what you think.


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## coralbandit

Looking GOOD!*h/b


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

Not too long after getting the tank filled I had to leave town. I decided not to put the shrimp in but to have my girlfriend ghost feed the tank instead. She put a few flakes in every 2 - 3 days for a couple weeks. I recently returned so I tested for ammonia nitrite and nitrates last night. I got readings of 0 for all so I am guessing the cycle hasn't started yet. S/G is 1.024. I thought it would have by now since it's been 3 weeks now. Should I do the shrimp now or just keep ghost feeding every other day? I did notice some darker colors developing on the rock when I got home. They were bright white before and now are getting some brown on them.

Thanks!


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## coralbandit

I think you need to add larger source of ammonia, so the shrimp will probly help you speed things up.


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## jmdub85

Ok, I will get the shrimp this weekend. I also have a white film that has built up on the top of the water. I have aimed both the power heads up toward the surface to increase agitation but it hasn't helped with it any. From reading online it seems like it could be a buildup of proteins but would I have that if I haven't started cycling yet? Is this the type of stuff that a protein skimmer would remove?

Thanks


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## coralbandit

A protien skimmer or even some form of surface extraction could help with that.I would just net it out if possible.


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## jmdub85

For now I just netted most of it out. I am going to look into HOB protein skimmers. On a positive note, my ammonia spiked at about 5ppm yesterday so the cycle has begun!


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## coralbandit

*h/b
*W


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## jmdub85

Ammonia looks like it's starting to fall tonight. I netted the white stuff that's floating on top of the water out a few days ago but it all came back. I got most of it out again but I'm wondering if I should invest in a HOB protein skimmer. I am looking at the Reef Octopus BH100 or the Eshopps PSK-75H. I have seen some negative reviews of the Eshopps but they seem to be due to a problem with the pump in older versions which they have replaced. People with later version seem to be pretty happy with it. Anyone have experience with either one? Thanks!


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

I never added the shrimp but I added plain ammonia (10% solution purchased from Ace Hardware) that I have seen in several fishless cycle guides online. I dosed the ammonia up until the tank was at 5ppm. About 24 hours later the water got somewhat cloudy as I expected. I tested last night and ammonia is down to 2ppm and nitrite is up to 1ppm with no nitrate. Today the water is starting to clear up and I am about to check parameters again. My question, should I continue to add small amounts of ammonia to keep it up or just let it fall to zero?

Thanks


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

Ok will do. I tested again and ammonia is down to 1ppm, nitrite up to 5ppm and nitrates up to 5ppm.


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## jmdub85

Ok, I tested last night and ammonia is between 1 and 2ppm, nitrite is 5+ppm (off the API chart) and nitrate between 5 and 10ppm. Should I dose ammonia now or wait until it falls to zero? How far do I want it to go back up to and when do I know when to stop dosing ammonia? I have read to stop once the tank can process 3-4ppm of ammonia to nitrate in 24 hours.

Thanks


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## jmdub85

Last nights tests showed ammonia a .25ppm and nitrite still off the chart. Nitrates are at 40ppm so I am obviously processing nitrite into nitrate. Hopefully it won't be long until the nitrite starts to fall. I added a little ammonia to feed the bacteria (brought it up to 2ppm). Once the the nitrite falls to zero I will have to do a large water change to get nitrates down and I should be good to go!  A lot of what I have read is to add a cleanup crew after the cycle is complete and then add fish after that. Currently my tank is clean, no algae or anything yet. If it stays like that when the cycle is complete should I add fish first and wait on the CUC?

Thanks!


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## Reefing Madness

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## krissytina

jmdub85 said:


> Well I just filled the tank last night. All the sand and rock is in and the water has cleared up. I snapped a quick cell phone picture. I checked tonight and the specific gravity is a little low so tomorrow I will raise that and then I just need to add an ammonia source to start the cycle! It's getting closer! Thanks for all the help so far. Here is the picture. Let me know what you think.


looks good  how did you get the sand to settle so fast? i put my tank together the other night and it looked all milky. is there anything i can do to clear it up faster?


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

I put the sand and rock in first, then placed a bowl in the bottom to pour the water over so I didn't disrupt the sand too much.

The tank is processing 2-3 ppm of ammonia down to 0 in 24 hours. Nitrite spiked about a week ago and is still off the chart. I have a nitrate reading of 80ppm. I thought nitrite would have dropped with such a high nitrate reading. Is the nitrate reading just a false reading due to the nitrites being so high? Should I do a water change or just let it be?


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## Reefing Madness

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## darandle

I just been following your post....your tank look awesome.....I have a 50 gallon freshwater......I am thinking about the saltwater setup.....make sure you put up the pictures when you add the fish....


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## coralbandit

No false reading there!
Two different kinds of bacteria to grow!
First the Nitrosomonas that convert ammonia to nitrite(they come quicker usaully).
Then the Nitrobacter that convert nitrites to nitrates(they can take twice as long as the somonas).You are very close though and the quick conversion of ammonia to nitrites is all good!
a water change in the near future probly won't hurt and then you should be almost ready(probly are ready just stock slow).


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## jmdub85

I have been hoping to see a drop in nitrites but they still haven't dropped yet. Should I do a water change today and see if that helps move things along? I have 5 gallons of salt water mixed up ready to go.


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## Reefing Madness

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## jmdub85

It's true that nothing good happens quickly in this hobby! Last night I tested again (hadn't tested for 2 days) and my ammonia is at 0 and I finally see the nitrite falling! Nitrite was down to 1ppm (from 5ppm a couple days ago) and nitrate is down to 5ppm! I think I am finally getting close!


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## jmdub85

Tested again Friday night and ammonia and nitrite were both at 0! Did about a 20% water change and got nitrates down to 0 and then added two ocellaris clowns about 1.25 inches long. So far they are doing great and as of last night still showing 0 ammonia and nitrite and practically 0 nitrate. The clowns are eating and seem happy. I am feeding them frozen mysis and a little of the flake food I tried to use to start the cycle but I have heard flake food isn't the best for them. What should I get to feed them to mix with the mysis? I thought I had a problem because one of the clowns would shake almost like it was being electrocuted when the other would get close but I read that is most likely them establishing dominance. Does that sound right? Both are very active and seem perfectly healthy. I have not added a clean up crew because the tank is still clean. The water is still slightly cloudy which is bugging me so I was thinking of picking up a HOB filter that I could just run some filter floss in for a few days to see if I can get whatever is suspended in the water out.

Thank all of you for your help!


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## coralbandit

If you believe the tank is cycled I would try Amazon.com: Seachem Purigen 100ml: Pet Supplies
It is the best water clarifier and use it in all my tanks(salt and fresh).


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