# Horrible bacterial smell from plant aquarium



## Gumby123 (Feb 13, 2012)

I've been keeping some java moss and elodea in a spare tank for them to grow. I went to check on them today and opening up the lid wafted up a horrible sulphuric smell. Is this normal?

The aquarium with the fish in it smells fine, and there's a few strands of elodea left in it that haven't be shredded or eaten


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Try adding some fresh carbon to the filter in your plant only tank (if you have a filter in there), if not, I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you have any driftwood in there?


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## Gumby123 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'll try a filter. I have a spare, I'm just worried about bits of elodea and loose moss clogging it. 

No driftwood in there, just bits of rock for the moss to cling too - they were sterilised 

Thanks


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Gumby123 said:


> I've been keeping some java moss and elodea in a spare tank for them to grow. I went to check on them today and opening up the lid wafted up a horrible sulphuric smell. Is this normal?
> 
> The aquarium with the fish in it smells fine, and there's a few strands of elodea left in it that haven't be shredded or eaten


IME it is not normal. 

If the plants are growing and oxygenating the water you should smell nothing.

but sometimes after I have moved a tank I do get that smell for a few days. I think because I stirred things up especially the substrate. then a week later the smell is gone or my nose has changed.

How are the plants doing? If growing then the smell should subside.

How tight is the top? Perhaps more air water interchange will help. although that should not be necessary as the plants remove co2 and add oxygen and all the top should do is help keep the oxygen levels higher and co2 levels lower then the surrounding air if the tank is closed.

Let us know how it works out.

my .02


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## Gumby123 (Feb 13, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> IME it is not normal.
> 
> If the plants are growing and oxygenating the water you should smell nothing.
> but sometimes after I have moved a tank I do get that smell for a few days. I think because I stirred things up especially the substrate. then a week later the smell is gone or my nose has changed.
> ...


I think they're growing alright. The elodea's grown a couple of inches and pieces keep breaking off (that's normal, isn't it?). Not sure about the moss.

Lid's kept ajar, I'll try leaving it off.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you have a filter or air stone running? A little water circulation might help if you have none. What is the substrate, lighting and how long has the tank been set up?

Any slimy looking algae? Cyanobacteria smells bad.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

The tank has gone stagnant. Running an unfiltered tank is a balancing act, and your tank has tilted over to the dark side. I'm assuming you have a separate tank with fish, and then the still tank with the plants? You've created a perfect home swamp...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like a beasl tank. And putting glass tops on tanks will not reduce air exchange. There is still air between the glass and the water. They don't make an air tight seal.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

This is a key danger with the filterless tank model -my grandfather and his friends used to discuss tank smells the way this forum discusses ammonia and nitrate readings. A closed system with no water movement and no water changes will get a little ripe on you. If nothing else, a little air bubbler is called for in there, to keep the noxious gas from building up.
Nature may not have pumps and bubblers, but it does have wind, rain and temperature changes to keep small bodies of water turning over. Nothing could be less natural than an unfiltered tank with no water changes.

As for the cover issue, it will trap the decomposition odours to a degree, and give you a face full when you lift it, but it's not a cause in any way of the smell. I agree with jrman that there still is some gas exchange, it's just that the water quality is nasty, and the bacterial smell isn't being released, free range, into your home. I'm not really sure you want to free the swamp -I'd get it moving and bring the water quality back around. To answer your question, it is normal for that kind of set-up, but I wouldn't have that kind of set-up if I could avoid it.


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## Gumby123 (Feb 13, 2012)

snail said:


> Do you have a filter or air stone running? A little water circulation might help if you have none. What is the substrate, lighting and how long has the tank been set up?
> 
> Any slimy looking algae? Cyanobacteria smells bad.



No filter, but I'm going to put one in today. No algae at all, surprisingly. Plenty of light - I grow tropical plants that need long hours of bright light, and I've put that tank with them. Substrate is little more than the rocks for the most to stick too. The Elodea is mostly free floating, some strands were held down with zinc weights


Thanks everyone - looks like its the lack of circulation that's causing it


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I have a sensitive nose and I think any fish tank smells slightly, I don't mind that smell and think it's natural, it's never going to be tap water (which smells of chlorine). The swamp smell should be avoidable though. Is this a dirt bottomed tank? If so how long has it been set up? In the start any organic material in the substrate decomposes and can make the tank smell. Try poking the substrate with a for or something to release trapped gasses. It is possible to have a filterless dirt bottomed tank that doesn't smell bad but it's hard to get the balance, an air stone will help.

Again I say check for Cyanobacteria, it really stinks.

Edit: Okay so I just saw your reply, scratch everything I said above. If the plants don't have a nutrient rich substrate are you dosing ferts?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Gumby123 said:


> No filter, but I'm going to put one in today. No algae at all, surprisingly. Plenty of light - I grow tropical plants that need long hours of bright light, and I've put that tank with them. Substrate is little more than the rocks for the most to stick too. The Elodea is mostly free floating, some strands were held down with zinc weights
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone - looks like its the lack of circulation that's causing it


If you're using dechlor/ammonia locks they can cause that smell. *old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> If you're using dechlor/ammonia locks they cas cause that smell. *old dude
> 
> my .02


Disregard. *ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!* Frankly, it would be nice if you would stop putting out bum gouge.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

> If you're using dechlor/ammonia locks they can cause that smell.
> 
> my .02


If that were the case my house would smell like that with all my tanks and how much prime I go through in a week. 5 capfuls alone in the 220 each week and no smell.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

susankat said:


> If that were the case my house would smell like that with all my tanks and how much prime I go through in a week. 5 capfuls alone in the 220 each week and no smell.


Perhaps that is because you tanks are open tops (or reasonably so), and have circualtion. So the sulfur gas outgasses.

But in a closed top environment that gas would be "trapped" in the system. and would not be present if the sulfur compounds had never been added.

Which would also explain why my tanks even the ones I had in the past with glass tops, had no smell with no circulation, no water changes, and no added chemicals.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Again wrong. You evidentally know very little of that you speak of...just bow out of the conversation. Better for everyone involved.

I don't think you get it. You refer to all dechlors as if they are Prime (like you always do).....which in this case the product name was not mentioned. Aquasafe has no smell. The tank may smell if that is what you are filling your tank up with, but other than that you have no clue. Just because Prime by itself smells doesn't mean the whoole tank or room will regardless of the type of top, filters, etc. Fish smell bad too, but in your heavily stocked tanks did they ever wreek of a fishy smell....mine don't. If Prime stunk up a tank people wouldn't use it - plain and simple

This is once again a point in your BS rhetoric about speaking out against tanks with filters, people who use dechlors, ferts, CO2, high level lights, etc


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Again wrong. You evidentally know very little of that you speak of...just bow out of the conversation. Better for everyone involved.
> 
> I don't think you get it. You refer to all dechlors as if they are Prime (like you always do).....which in this case the product name was not mentioned. Aquasafe has no smell. The tank may smell if that is what you are filling your tank up with, but other than that you have no clue. Just because Prime by itself smells doesn't mean the whoole tank or room will regardless of the type of top, filters, etc. Fish smell bad too, but in your heavily stocked tanks did they ever wreek of a fishy smell....mine don't. If Prime stunk up a tank people wouldn't use it - plain and simple
> 
> This is once again a point in your BS rhetoric about speaking out against tanks with filters, people who use dechlors, ferts, CO2, high level lights, etc


so do you honestly think aqua safe is not a sulfur compound like sodium thiosulfate?

I did check out the tetra site and no ingredients nor msds were found. But an msds on another company's web side did list sodium thiosulfate in one of their products. Which is dangerous to aquatic life.

my .02


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

beaslbob said:


> Perhaps that is because you tanks are open tops (or reasonably so), and have circualtion. So the sulfur gas outgasses.
> 
> But in a closed top environment that gas would be "trapped" in the system. and would not be present if the sulfur compounds had never been added.
> 
> ...


Several of my tanks has full covers on them because of the type of inhabitants that are in there, Killies for example are big jumpers, fiddler crabs and snails are good at crawling out.

If I didn't add dechlorinator I can see all my expensive fish floating or layng on the bottom because of the chloramine poison. Personally from what I have seen of your tanks non have tops on them, and none has healthy plants. And not using dechlorinator on water that has chloramines is burning the fish gills no matter what you say and that in itself is cruel to animals.

Lets put you in a tub for a month with no water changes, no using the toilet and just top off water as it evaporates and see how you like it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> so do you honestly think aqua safe is not a sulfur compound like sodium thiosulfate?
> 
> I did check out the tetra site and no ingredients nor msds were found. But an msds on another company's web side did list sodium thiosulfate in one of their products. Which is dangerous to aquatic life.
> 
> my .02


Why don't you go look up the ingredients in the peat you use and come back and tell me how many are unsafe for aquatic life. Most probably aren't but at the levels that are in it, does it affect them? No. You waste your time on looking up stuff like MSDS sheets and that sh*t cracks me up. 

If the "unsafe" stuff was at levels that it mattered would they be able to sell it and get away with it....right there on the shelf at ANY fish store? Do you really think so? If you do, you're a bigger idiot than believed.

Is Ammonium safe for aquatic life? Don't you put this in your tank despite the fact that it isn't? Sounds hypocritical to me!

Does it really matter what is in it if it has no odor....which is what we are talking about here - odor.

Amazing that you spend this much effort for a product that you've used once. Incidentally, did Prime stink up your tank when you used it? Pure ammonia smells much worse than Prime ever will and when I've done fishless cycles adding much more ammonia than I ever did with Prime, do you really think the tank smells like ammonia now? I know you've never done it so let me tell you the answer...no, it doesn't.

Again, just more of your rhetoric.


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## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

Wow what a battle of wits,When I start in on somebody the mods always say to tone it down. I think we should all be able to say if we think someone is a dumb*** without actually saying it on here. Like the person the other day that was trying to get people to give free stuff and pay for the shipping!!! Cmon people HERE'S YOUR SIGN!!!!!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

We reserve dumb*** for those that have been on here at least 6 months. Newbs get treated more kindly. Just joking.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Plus, this thread started with the discussion about a smell that is in a tank and its potential causes....that then turned into a thread about how dechlors are now unsafe for aquatic animals.

Let it be known that anyone that comes in here and says that dechlors "shouldn't" be used for this reason is a DA and needs to be banned from the site - period. What you want to do with your tank is your choice, just don't plan to come here and turn it into your own personal crusade against things that keep fish safe against the things municipalaties place in the water to make it safe for our consumption.


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## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

YA!! That is what I say,call a spade a spade.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Lol, this thread got hot!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

giddetm said:


> Wow what a battle of wits,When I start in on somebody the mods always say to tone it down. I think we should all be able to say if we think someone is a dumb*** without actually saying it on here. Like the person the other day that was trying to get people to give free stuff and pay for the shipping!!! Cmon people HERE'S YOUR SIGN!!!!!


Is my sign the MSDS? *r2

Yeppers and it happens all the time. *old dude

things stated in a forum always appear more emotional then they actually are.

what we have here is me using methods I have used since the late '70s before much (but not most) of the chemicals, filters, and stuff was marketed.

And we have LFS selling stuff and aquariumists using other methods.

with the passion we have it is very hard for either "side" to actually believe the "other" side methods work.

so I just throw out "my" methods (now in the link in my signature) for anyone's consideration. And try to answer questions as they come up.

But there will always be others that worry about the "dangerous" and "experimental" nature of "my" methods.


Fortunately this forum allows various methods to be advocated and as a result several new hobbists have tried these with great success.

And that's really what it is all about.

Still it is just my.


.02 *old dude


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You have gone down this road before. So it is easy for anyone who has had this conversation with you before to be somewhat emotional. Your methods are just that...yours. If in that process you call yours, at least for this website's purposes, you say you can do things like not use dechlor...that is what you do during "your" process.

The main problem that I, and many others on here have issue with is how you make random suggestions for people to do things without giving a little more detail. A simple...."I don't use dechlors....."....to a newb can give the impression that they may not be needed when you don't add in the fact that you only do topoffs and no water changes. You nearly ALWAYS fail to explain that you are only referring to maybe a 10% water change and not something much larger like a 35-50% level, or maybe higher. A much larger level of water change into an established (or not) tank would likely not only kill most of the beneficial bacteria, but also most of any fauna someone may have in the tank.

Trying to tell everyone that dechlors have stuff in the product not safe for aquatic life, whether it's true or not, when you can say the same thing about peat (used in your methods) is doing nothing but promoting your methods and trying to tell someone new to all of this that the very dechlor they should be using is bad for their fish. It is a round about way to say, "hey, use my methods and forget that other sh*t". Not EVERYTHING that wouldn't ordinarily be used in your methodology is bad and whether or not it is what you would call "necessary" doesn't mean it couldn't be a "good" idea.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I use Prime, in glass topped tanks. My tanks have that nice "earthy" smell that they are supposed to have. The Prime smell disappears as soon as it hits the water.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I get a little testy about Bob's approach, or rather, his advocating it for newcomers to the hobby because it isn't "experimental" stuff - it is exactly how I was taught to run a tank when I was a kid and Nixon was your President. I knew plenty of older aquarists who didn't have access to filters, and who ran tanks with a limited number of species and very little breeding.

There is so much we can do and learn in this hobby - so why limit ourselves to half a dozen ultra-hardy species and a limited number of plants? Why be stagnant when we can be dynamic? 

Sure, it works, to a degree - never do water changes, keep fish in unnatural habitats, don't even try to (mechanically) imitate nature... you can do it, but is the inconvenience of maintaining a dynamic aquarium really that great that we should settle for stagnant?

There is so much to learn here - why stand pat? The relationship between species in nature, the questions of what a species is, adpatation, variation over a species' range, evolutionary relationships, breeding strategies, fish behavior with current, different families and types of plants - they're all out there for an aquarist to learn about. You can take it as far as you want.

Or, we can set up tanks as buckets with three platys and a strand of anacharis, and then be proud of not tending them in the least. I don't get it Bob, but I guess it is a difference in approach, and expectations. 

Been there, done that, got bored fast, bought a filter, and wow.


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## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

I appreciate the information exchange in this thread, even if it did go off topic. It's helped me to put a lot of things in perspective. You are correct to be concerned about how "newbs" interpret the information they (we) get from this forum. Most are here to learn techniques and best practices that are most likely to assure a successful hobby experience and long term health and enjoyment of their fish. I sincerely appreciate beaslbob's passion for his method, but it helps when it's made clear that it isn't right for everyone. Thanks again for this honest exchange.


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