# Help with the Fishless cycle



## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

I have been doing my cycle for a week now, and there has been no change in the ammonia levels in the tank. I dosed it to 4 ppm, and there has been no change what so ever. I am guessing that mine is just taking its time, but at what point should I start to become concerned and start over? 2 weeks?


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## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

My suggestion would be to go "beg borrow or steal" some established filter media. Bio balls or even the floss out of a HOB. A GOOD local fish store "lfs" should be willing to give ya a boost. Until ya get the bacteria present in the filter media, there is nothing to contrib to the breakdown of the ammonia. If ya have a local fish club I'm sure someone would lend ya a sponge filter from one of their tanks. I know I keep three or four sponges avail for setting up new tanks or for helping someone else set up a new tank...oh.. Another opportunity is to borrow some substrate from a hobbiest... Throw it in a stocking or something similar and just let it bob on the tank floor. If your not concerned about mixing the colors of your substrate, just dump it in. Substrate is a hot-bed of bacteria.. Bill


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

williemcd said:


> My suggestion would be to go "beg borrow or steal" some established filter media.


+1

Tetra SafeStart is also a good idea, if you ask me. Others will say its a waste of money, but I swear by it.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

looks like I will have to go with the tetra safe start. I don't know anyone who has an aquarium near me, and there is only 1 lfs and they are opposed to letting me use anything.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

so you dosed it just once and its been a week ???

Usually it takes 2-3 days for it to go down and then you have to keep redosing ...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The problem is just dosing once and waiting for something happen. Refer to holly's thread about here troubles. Most of her issue came from dosing and waiting....when day 1 should be the same as day 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.....dose!


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, I just dosed it once and the levels havent changed in over a week now. What thread are you talking about jrman83? I can't find it.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Never mind jrman, just found her thread. But I don't think any of it applies to me. I did my initial dose to 4ppm, and it has been like 9-10 days, and it hasn't once dropped in the slightest, checked it every day passed the third day and every day it has been 4 ppm. Do you think I should do a 50% change and hope that it will be easier for the bacteria to colonize with less ammonia?


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Holly just kept dosing it and got there in the end 

You could try that


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

The trouble is that it wont change at all. It has been at 4ppm and has never dropped even the slightest since my initial dose. If I dose it again it will be at 8 ppm and I was told anything above 5 is to toxic for the bacteria to grow in.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

jebusfreek666 said:


> The trouble is that it wont change at all. It has been at 4ppm and has never dropped even the slightest since my initial dose. If I dose it again it will be at 8 ppm and I was told anything above 5 is to toxic for the bacteria to grow in.


i dont know if its too toxic for bacteria to grow. But you got the same problem as Holly had,she just got stuck and was advised to ignore it,and kept dosing ammonia every day until it started to drop.

If you dont want to do that,then why dont you get some plants ? plants will speed things up . I done my fishless cycle in 11 days in a planted tank  Worth a try


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey... it's me.... Holly.... "of the stalled cycle" lol!

I didn't believe jrman at first, and thought "eventually, I'll be up to like, 20ppm in ammonia if I dose every day!!!" But, I did it anyway.... and it started dropping. The highest it ever got was about 7ppm and then it started to drop. So, I went from a stalled cycle to a finished cycle in about a week, hahaha! If only I had done what he said in the beginning, the cycle would have been like 2-3 weeks instead of 2 months!!!

I'm now cycling my 36g bow front and have been much more relaxed with this cycle! I dose about every other day (usually because I forget to dose the next day), and it's only been a week and already my NitrItes are rising and the Ammonia goes down to 2ppm after 48 hours...) Trust me... jrman knows what he's talking about! (If I had done this tank the way I had done the first, I would be dosing like once a week... waiting for the ammonia to fall....where as now, it's every day/every other day, and things are going much faster!)

*EDIT:* Just tested today, and after dosing last night and going up to 4ppm, 24 hours later it is down to 1ppm. Didn't even see the NitrItes hit 5ppm. Saw them rise to 1.5ppm and they must have peaked and dropped during a day I missed testing, 'cause it looks like my cycle is almost done! Woo-hoo, and I'm JUST starting week 2!


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, just to be clear I have never registered anything on my Nitrite tests... They have always been 0 since day one. With no Nitrites showing at all you guys still think I should just dose it every day right? And what dose should I use, since it was one cap full to make it 4ppm, should I just use half a cap?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

jebusfreek666 said:


> Ok, just to be clear I have never registered anything on my Nitrite tests... They have always been 0 since day one. With no Nitrites showing at all you guys still think I should just dose it every day right? And what dose should I use, since it was one cap full to make it 4ppm, should I just use half a cap?


You could try 1/2. Just make sure it happens daily. When nitrites start to show you can reduce to half again and every other day.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, just dosed it to 6ppm ammonia. Still feel a little hesitant about this, but you guys are the experts! I will update as it goes along.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sorry I can't help.

I just use live plants and add the fish slowly with very light feeding. Fish do fine.

I did measure a couple of times and go very low (.5-1ppm) ammonia or nitrItes spikes for only a day.

but that's just me.

and my .02


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

I would like to do plants also, but this is my first attempt at keeping fish, so I am trying to keep it simple. Maybe sometime down the road. Okay, as for dosing the tank I tested the water this morning and it was still at 6ppm ammonia with no nitrates, but I doesed it again and now it is at 8ppm. I sure hope this works.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Sounds like this tank is pulling a "Holly" as some on here would say...


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jebusfreek666 said:


> I would like to do plants also, but this is my first attempt at keeping fish, so I am trying to keep it simple. Maybe sometime down the road. Okay, as for dosing the tank I tested the water this morning and it was still at 6ppm ammonia with no nitrates, but I doesed it again and now it is at 8ppm. I sure hope this works.


I understand. 

Hopefully you will later find out adding a bunch of plants is easier then all this dosing and measuring stuff.

But until then I do understand.



my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That's funny......pouring ammonia into a tsp and dropping in the tank is hard? It doesn't get much easier. It doesn't even require any more testing than normal. I am all for planted tanks as all of mine with fish are, but to say that a fishless cycle is difficult, hard, or otherwise any kind of task to perform is just wrong.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> That's funny......pouring ammonia into a tsp and dropping in the tank is hard? It doesn't get much easier. It doesn't even require any more testing than normal. I am all for planted tanks as all of mine with fish are, but to say that a fishless cycle is difficult, hard, or otherwise any kind of task to perform is just wrong.


I guess it's just a matter of what we're used to doing.

Or perhaps I'm just too lazy. *old dude

Besides just adding food and water is kinda boreing. *old dude

my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> That's funny......pouring ammonia into a tsp and dropping in the tank is hard? It doesn't get much easier.


I found an easier way: Go to the drug store and ask for a medication syringe (they'll give them to you for free.) Then pull up the amount of ammonia you need straight from the bottle into the syringe and squirt it into the tank. (Much easier than worrying about spilling ammonia all over the place with a spoon.)  Just a tip.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, so i checked it today and I still had 6ppm ammonia and 0 nitrites. I will dose it again and it will be at 8ppm. I sure hope that it happens tonight because my test kit only measure up to 8ppm ammonia.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Checked today, 8ppm ammonia, 0 Nitrites. Dosed again. I can only assume it is at 10 now since I have no way of checking. If the nitrites don't start in the next couple days do you guys think it is time to empty it and start over with the tetra safe start?


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## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

You might run into trouble if you keep the ammonia as high as 8ppm. When cycling my first tank I was horribly overstocked, and ammonia was at 8ppm on and off for about a month. It wasn't until I cut my stocking in half and let the ammonia settle around 4-5ppm that nitrites finally showed up. It took around 2 months from the day I first filled the tank for the cycle to complete, and I'm pretty sure the delay was due to the high ammonia in the beginning.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Don't know what to tell you. When mine got stuck, I started dosing every day and it kick started the cycle into starting up again. With this second tank, I've been dosing every day (every other if I forget) and it's almost done and I'm not yet at week 3.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Finally, this morning I got trace readings of Nitrites. I skipped the dose today since it was still at 8ppm ammonia. Everyone writes that it should be dosed every other day when the nitrites spike, but I'm not sure what amount is considered a spike? anyone have any input on this?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Usually a spike is when it's rising... so... I'd do every other day maybe around 2ppm? It will continue to rise (to 5ppm), then slowly fall. (With my current tank, I only ever saw Nitrites at 1ppm and then they were gone after a few weeks... so I'm guessing that they spiked to 5ppm and fell during some days when I missed testing for Nitrites.)

Just keep doing as Ben said and you'll be fine. (Glad to hear you finally got a Nitrite reading!)


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

As soon as you read anything for nitrites, switch to every other day dosing.


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

OK... I have been really patient with this tank, it has been since the end of july and I still can't put fish in my tank. I can now dose it to the tank to 4 ppm ammonia and in 24 hours it will be down to only around 0.5 ppm in 24 hours. Unfortunately the nitrites wont drop as fast, they actually don't seem to drop much at all. But I am reading nitrates also maxed. I have done a 90% water change to try to get back to a baseline, but it still does the same thing. I dose it to 4ppm ammonia and overnight the ammonia will be all but gone, but both the nitrites and nitrates will be maxed and stay maxed for days even if I don't add more ammonia..... any suggestions?


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## LariM78 (Nov 2, 2010)

Just out of curiosity, what are the temperature and pH readings? Is the tank aerated at all? Were you able to get any media or gravel from an established tank?


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## jebusfreek666 (Jul 17, 2011)

Temp is a consistent 78-81 degrees. Ph has been high the whole time between 8.2 and 8.4 but I was told not to try and mess with it until after I was done cycling (but I would love to know how to permanently bring that down.) The tank is unaltered, and I was not able to get any established media..


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## LariM78 (Nov 2, 2010)

You could try to increase your temperature to about 86F/ 30C. pH should be fine, I don't see that as being a problem. If you can increase the aeration of the tank with some airstones or something it could help. Even if you can get some gravel from an established tank and put it in a stocking that will help speed things along.

I completed a fishless cycle in two weeks exactly. I did the following. I dosed the tank to about 5ppm ammonia. Thereafter I put some gravel from my existing tank in a stocking and put it in the tank. I saw a drop in the ammonia after about 48 hours and an increase in Nitrite. I kept on dosing ammonia at a reduced dosage every 2 days. When I would test for ammonia it was 0 and Nitrite spiked at over 10ppm for about 7 days. I took the gravel filled stocking out and replaced it with other gravel from my other tank. I also turned the temperature up and after that the Nitrite began to fall rapidly, after the first noticable drop in nitrite it fell to 0 within 24 hours. Thereafter I could dose the tank with ammonia and within 12 hours the ammonia and nitrite readings were both 0.

I believe the reason the cycle completed so rapidly was due to the gravel from the other tank, good aeration and higher temperature. The pH was at about 8 the whole time. I also did not add any chemicals to neutralize or remove ammonia at all. So my advice to you based on my own experiance is increase temperature, increase aeration and try by all means necessary to get some media/gravel/decoration etc from an established tank.


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