# What should go first in a tank ? Snails / Shrimp / Fish ?



## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

So i filled up the tank with water yesterday . 

Bought some plants from eBay,they will only be posted on monday , so i guess i will just have to wait and do nothing with tank til plants arrive.

Once the tank is planted,would it be safe to add something to it in a week ? Like shrimp or snails ? I havent got ammonia to do fishless cycling,so i will plant it and maybe put cooked prawn in it ( ??? )

I'm not sure if i will have enough plants to do silent cycling , these are the plants i will receive next week :

Aponogeton Natans x 5
Ceratopteris ( Water Sprite ) x 5
Java Fern x 5
Umbrella Fern x 5
Anubias Barteri x 2
Marimo Moss Balls x 5

The size of the tank is 60 x 30 x 30 cm ( 54 litres ) .

So i am kind of thinking to do a mix of 2 - add plants and add prawns for cycling .

Now,with silent cycling you are ok to add your first fish after a week , so i was thinking to get couple snails or shrimp instead of fish .

What do you think guys ? How would you do it ?

Thank you very much x


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Well, sorry to tell you this, but the umbrella fern is a non-aqautic plant. It will just rot in your tank. If you plan to plant the tank first, I would just wait a week to let them get established then get 1-2 fish. That will get the cycle rolling. Cycling in a tank with established plants is so much easier.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh no ! i really liked the look of it !

Thanks for letting me know .


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Can someone tell me please if snail would have more chances of surviving than fish if added to the tank first ?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

From what I've read snails are fairly sensitive to ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. So are shrimp. I would do the fishless cycling with your plants and a cooked prawn. If you do decide to cycle with animals, go with some hardy fish. I have a feeling shrimp and snails will just die.

Once the tank is cycled though, they make great additions!


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

I'd add snails and fish first and see if the snails make it. Depending on what kind of shrimp you have, they do better when put in established tanks because they either feed on algae or leftover food so add them in a couple weeks after the fish. Since you're doing the silent cycle, consider purchasing some ammonia-removing filter and/or Nitrazorb media which Holly says works well, although I don't have any experience with these.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Thank you guys  

Just added cooked prawn today . Havent got plants yet,but will receive them this week 
is Nitrazorb - ammonia remover ? is it liquid ?

Been doing a bit of reading about snails,and from what i understand they need a lot lower pH than fish ... i am planing to keep neon tetras and galaxy rasboras because they are small size,ideal for my tank . Was thinking to add zebra nerite and red onion snails , but really not sure if that would be a good idea now.

But then again,i can see that Holly has got nerite snails in her tank ...how long you had them for ? areb they doing ok in your tank ?

*do snails and shrimp count in this 1cm per 1 litre rule ?*


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Shrimp, no because they are so tiny. About 100-150 can go in a 10g tank.

Snails, I'm still not sure yet, lol. They do have big 'poops' but I hardly ever see them do it, so I'm not sure how dirty they really are.

They are doing great though. I've had them for a few months now. They've eaten all the algae in my tank, even the horrible BBA that I couldn't get anything else to eat. They are pretty cute! When I do a WC, I can see the bio-film on the glass (where there isn't any water) and it has little snail bite marks on it, lol!! They are doing their job!! They also love the zucchini I put in the tank every once in a while for the Otos.

Nitrazorb comes in a pouch like carbon does. (I've also seen it in a powder - I guess so you can maybe make your own pouch with nylon stockings? Maybe this saves money?) I just buy mine in a pouch. I use it for the Nitrate absorbing capabilities it has, (but it does say on the package that it will also help with ammonia and nitrites.) My tap water is 80ppm Nitrate and when I use the Nitrazorb, the 10g tank is at 10-20ppm Nitrates, so it's working. (And I'm sure the plants are helping a bit, though they are low light plants.) I use a small, secondary filter for the Nitrazorb. It's the only media in that filter. The main filter has the sponge/carbon/biomax. When first using it, it has to be re-charged every other day for about 2 weeks, then every 5 days for 2 weeks, then it only has to be done every 2 weeks - 1 month, depending on how fast your Nitrates rise. (It has to be replaced every 2 months, but the pouches following the first only have to be re-charged once every 2 weeks to 1 month.) The reason it has to be re-charged so much at first is because it's working super hard to bring down the toxin numbers really fast. To re-charge you just put it in a container of 8oz warm water and 4tbsp aquarium salt for 2 hours. Then rinse lightly and put back into filter. Really easy! Nitra-Zorb™ - API


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for info Holly , if your snails are doing fine ,then i will get few aswell


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

No problem. 

If you find you run out of algae, you can always grow some on rocks in water on a windowsill, or just feed them zucchini every once in a while. Nerites are mainly algae eaters, but I've heard they will scavenge left over fish food if there's no algae left. 

Oh, they are GREAT escape artists, so make sure you're tank is well covered!! I've had some on the lid when I take it off to clean the tank - and almost didn't see them there - as well as had some of them try to escape while I was doing a WC! Sneaky little things, lol.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

haha,i read somewhere that when lid not closed,they get out of tanks .


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Yep! But I think they can survive for a _short_ time because they close up. If you find one on the floor, put it back in the tank and see if it 'comes back out.'


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

sondre said:


> Thank you guys
> is Nitrazorb - ammonia remover ? is it liquid ?


Nah they are both filter media. 
I don't know what kind of filter you have, or if you have it yet, but it's a great idea to get a filter that can hold multiple media...and/or have multiple filters. Although with a heavily planted tank the filtration is less important, it's still never a bad idea to add more filtration. I'd buy the ammonia-removing medium if the water you are using is low in nitrates (under 20 ppm or so) and the Nitrazorb if the nitrates are a little elevated. Plants will consume both ammonia and nitrate but prefer ammonia for their nitrogen source..so as long as ammonia is present they'll leave nitrates more or less untouched.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

oh... there is so much stuff that i dont even know ! 

yeah,i do have a filter,it came with the tank , its called "Juwel Internal Filter Bioflow Mini" .
i cant find much info about them,but it says that "_it offers twostage biological and mechanical filtration"_ ...

i couldnt even work out how to open it ( to change the "sponge" in the future ) . i could see there is a sponge in there , so i just put the filter in a tank and thats it,didnt add anything to it .

i should probably get something different then ...


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

I found this thread on the Juwel filter Juwel Internal Filter - Poor Design - Tropical Fish Forums

Rather sad, apparently it eats fish. I looked at some other forum posts about the filter and the majority of the comments are negative except for some of the larger versions that can be modified to be quite a decent filter (but this is only suitable for large tanks with large fish, since the filter can't eat large fish). I'd try to get that filter out if I were you (or just don't plug it in) 

The Oscar Spot • View topic - juwel internal filter needs taken out


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

FWIW

I would not add snails. You will get plenty from the plants.

I would not add the prawn and would remove it right now. It will overload your plants.

I would wait 1 week after planting then add a small fish (male if live bearer). then don't add food for a week before adding more fish. 

After adding a few more start very very light feedings like 1 flake per day or so.


my .02


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

oh.... this really doesnt look good ...

could you recommend any filters ? i really got no idea what i need .


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> oh.... this really doesnt look good ...
> 
> could you recommend any filters ? i really got no idea what i need .


don't worry

I know it is hard to accept but the plants are really all you need.


I don't use nor recommend any mechanical filters.

My Fw tank are just the plants, substrate, tank, lights, and fish.

I do no water changes and the tank have ran for years with descendants from the original cycle fish (for live bearers anyway).

But it is hard to believe. It just works.

my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

For filtration, it's usually smart to go with slightly higher filtration than the size of the tank. (Ex: my 10g has a filter that's for a 5-20g tank. My 20g tank has a filter that's for a 10-30g tank. My 36g tank has a filter that's for a 29-45g tank.) Can't really over filter but can under filter. (The plants will help with filtration too.)

Do you have Aquaclear filters in the UK? They are really good. Soooo easy to clean and allow for 3 media types. (Seriously, take the lid off, lift the basket out and change the media.) Aquatic products

Since your tank is about 11g (UK gallons), you should be good with a filter for a 10-15g tank, or a 10-20g tank. Which would be the Aquaclear 20. 

Here's the site with the other sizes: Aquatic products and parts


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

wow,yeah,it is hard to believe,because most of the people do use them...

and no water changes ??? really ? doesnt it get old ? smelly ? yellow ? 

like i said before,i am new to this,my first tank (well its for my kids) and i dont know much about aquariums and how to take care of them .


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

i had a quick look online,can see parts for this filter,like pumps(says its for under gravel filtration) and power heads (???) .

i will keep looking see if i can find anything ...


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> wow,yeah,it is hard to believe,because most of the people do use them...
> 
> and no water changes ??? really ? doesnt it get old ? smelly ? yellow ?


nope

the plants remove all the "smelly" stuff and add oxygen. that keep things all nice and fresh. *old dude


> like i said before,i am new to this,my first tank (well its for my kids) and i dont know much about aquariums and how to take care of them .


for kids platys are a good idea. they are not only hardy but have babies in the tank. Which adds to the excitement.

my .02


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

i was thinking about getting platies,neon tetras and galaxy rasboras .

you seem to know a lot about this hobby !


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sondre said:


> i was thinking about getting platies,neon tetras and galaxy rasboras .
> 
> you seem to know a lot about this hobby !


ha ha fooled you. *old dude

I have had problem with neons untill I used peat moss in the substrate. No experience with rasboras.

But platys especially the simple orange ones were extremely easy.

So you might want to start the tank with the platys, let them have a few babies, then a few months later add some other fish for more variety.

just a thought

worth at most .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Just make sure not to overstock.... although, with Beaslbob giving you guidance, you could have 30 platies in your 11g!!! (Seriously impressed with that many guppies in one tank!)


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

will try not to overstock,will stick to 1 cm per litre rule


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

holly12 said:


> Just make sure not to overstock.... although, with Beaslbob giving you guidance, you could have 30 platies in your 11g!!! (Seriously impressed with that many guppies in one tank!)



*r2

FWIW I don't recommend dumping 30 palties in a 11g. What I do recomend is starting with a trio (male and 2 females) over 2 weeks with very light feeding so the plants keep ahead of the bioload. Then basically just letting the population adjust to whatever the tank and plants can sustain.

my .02


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