# Chemistry question...



## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

How is it possible that I've had 5 zebra danios in this cycling 36G BF tank for a week or so...I just did a 50% water change....and there are 0ppm Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates.

Did I get the unusual and rarely seen North American No-Poop Danios?

(P.S. the 50% water change was due to the 1 danio that had a small white growth on his lip last night...and a missing mouth this morning. I snatched him out into quarantine this morning, but he died. I've dosed the main tank with Neoplex and Kanaplex for a little prophylactic treatment of the other danios. Whether columnaris, aeromonas, or whatever...none of the others are symptomatic. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing a 50% pwc while trying to cycle a tank.)

Edit - sorry, more info would probably be helpful: 36G Bowfront
Filtration: Aquaclear 70
Temp: Around 79*
Substrate: (3") Flourite
Stock: (4) (as of today) zebra danios
Factors: Some Mopani driftwood
Factors: A bit of anachris in two corners, and a patch of micro sword.
Lighting: (4) 23W 6500k CFL


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## dante322 (Jan 15, 2012)

hhhmmm... That's definately weird.

dont know anything about the meds you added, but is it possible they "tricked" the test solution?

I'm assuming you've been testing all along, and are doing it correctly, so an inacurate test is a possibility, but an unlikely one.

I've heard of different meds being detrimental to the bacterial colony but never to bring all the parameters to zero.

I'd say just keep an eye on the fish for unusuall behavior and test again tomorrow. Perhaps some simple observation is the thing right now.


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## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

Well, I anticipated that...so I drew the sample before dosing the tank.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

j0fish said:


> How is it possible that I've had 5 zebra danios in this cycling 36G BF tank for a week or so...I just did a 50% water change....and there are 0ppm Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates.


5 danios in a 36 gallon tank is a very tiny bioload. Throw in that you've only had the tank up 1 week AND have done a 50% PWC, I can very well see why you're testing 0 across the board.

I've had a 29 gallon go through a fishless cycle that took it 4 weeks, with a 20-40 count raw tiger prawn as the ammonia source - a LOT bigger bioload than 5 danios.

Not saying you're doing anything wrong, just saying you'll need to give it a lot more time to get the cycle going in a tank that big with so few fish. You could easily have a school of 20 danios in there, then you would start seeing ammonia and nitrite.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

I don't know about 20 but I would do it with maybe around 6-8 for a tank that size if you were going to cycle it that way


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

20 is a bit big. I've kept 20 fish in a 29 gallon (10 bloodfin tetras, 6 black skirt tetras and 4 emerald dwarf rasboras, not counting bottom dwellers), but it was a heavily planted tank bordering on a jungle (see pic <----).

Thanks for the correction


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Its not neccessiarily a correction, you could indeed have 20 danios in there givin that you had the proper comidations, but I wouldn't cycle it with that many


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your number of fish is fine. I did a 75g with only 4 fish. If you add more, once the ammonia does come it will come hard and fast and you'll be doing a lot of water changes to save the fish. Just have patience and it will be easier on you in the long run. The cycle will take 3-8wks with fish. Mine took 5wks.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

j0fish said:


> How is it possible that I've had 5 zebra danios in this cycling 36G BF tank for a week or so...I just did a 50% water change....and there are 0ppm Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates.
> 
> Did I get the unusual and rarely seen North American No-Poop Danios?
> 
> ...


Hello j...

First off, I don't think 5 small fish is enough to start the cycling process in such a large tank. There's too much water in the tank to dilute the small amount of waste produced. That's not a bad thing for the fish, but isn't going to do much for cycling your tank.

A 50 percent water change on top of the large tank, apparently has the water in pure conditions.

If I was cycling a similar tank. I'd add a few more of the Zebra Danios and float a bunch of Water wisteria and Pennywort. The additional fish and plants will help with the cycling process.

Just a couple of comments to consider or not.

B


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

With the anacharis and micro sword and little or no feeding, it is entirely possible the plants are preventing the ammonia,nitrIte spikes. If there is no organics (in the substrate for instance) providing nitrAtes then you very well could experience zero parameter across the board.

Just keep the feeding down and let the new tank adjust.

my .02


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## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

And there's no possibility that the plants are not only keeping the Ammonia and Nitrite under the radar, but they they are stealing what the tank needs for the filter bed to establish? (sort of rhetorical...you would have said that I imagine)


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

j0fish said:


> And there's no possibility that the plants are not only keeping the Ammonia and Nitrite under the radar, but they they are stealing what the tank needs for the filter bed to establish? (sort of rhetorical...you would have said that I imagine)


Probably *old dude

ime with my heavily planted tanks I get low or no ammonia/nitrItes spikes with a possible initial nitrate spike. then a few weeks later nitrates drop dwon to unmeasureable levels as well.

What happens is that any bacteria present actually get first pick at the ammonia. but if insufficient bacteria is availalbe then the plants consume the ammonia directly. Then as bacteria build up the plants consume nitrates for nitrogen because that is all that is available.
While it may take longer to do that, the bottom line is that no or low ammonia spikes are measured.

my .02


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## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

Ah! I think I'm getting something that I haven't seen written anywhere:
Ammonia and NitrIte spikes aren't *necessary*, they are just typically observed.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

j0fish said:


> Ah! I think I'm getting something that I haven't seen written anywhere:
> Ammonia and NitrIte spikes aren't *necessary*, they are just typically observed.


Correct.

it's called the silent cycle and actually is typical for planted tanks.

for example












my .02


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## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank you very much.

You slipped in a puzzle piece that I didn't know was missing.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

j0fish said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> You slipped in a puzzle piece that I didn't know was missing.


 you're very welcome and I had a similiar revelation a few years back.

all I knew at the time was these planted techniques worked. I then started doing some measurements and others posted about the silent cycle. 

bingo! revelation. *old dude

(I had a similiar revelation about water changes also but that is another discussion *r2)

my .02


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## j0fish (Jan 25, 2012)

It makes me curious that when folks post "Help! Ammonia at high levels, fish in distress during cycle" that no one responds "even if it's just during cycling, get some plants in there".


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

j0fish said:


> It makes me curious that when folks post "Help! Ammonia at high levels, fish in distress during cycle" that no one responds "even if it's just during cycling, get some plants in there".


which is why I (ond other old planted heads) recommend exactly that.

On the other side consider the newbie that can't understand why they have high nitrates even though they have done a water change. Or low pH or cloudy water or algae or cyano and so on. *old dude

still just my .02


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