# New substrate plan, advice?



## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Ok I am about to start another planted tank but I want to do things differently than my last tank where I kept the plants all potted. This time I wanted to combine beaslbob's method with eco-complete and plant the plants right into the substrate, but I'm not sure if my plan is ok. 

Basically, I want to use eco in a 20 gal tank but I only have 20 lbs, so I want to layer it over peat, then cover the whole thing with some gravel. Does this sound ok? I can't swing 2 bags of eco so I opted for one and Im trying to stretch it. So 1)peat, 2)eco, 3)gravel. Will this compact too much? Should I put sand in there too? Fluorite? Laterite?

It's a freshwater tank and will have mainly guppies in it, but also a pleco and snails.

Oh one more thing. I've heard that a dark substrate is better for the stress level of fish. Is this true? I got white gravel thinking it would help reflect light to the plants, but I don't want to stress out my fish!

Thank you!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

That sounds like it'll be a great tank setup. Plants like sand idyllically, but in the long run as long as there's some nutrient-rich substrate for them to put roots into, they'll be great.

And from a purely speculative standpoint, here's my take on fish and light vs. dark substrate.

Look at most fish. They have white-silver-ish underbellies, and most of the more drab fish have dark topsides. This is for camouflage against airborne predators from above, and deep-water predators from below. A fish with a dark topside is designed to blend in with a dark substrate, so a light substrate might make him/her feel exposed. This might give rhyme to reason with the stress level of your fish but again, that is purely speculation.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

My understanding is that the peat moss is there to keep the hardness low and stable, that the sand is for plants to root in, and the rock is there to aid in the breakdown of waste. Beaslbob actually uses Prochoice select for his top layer, which is more like eco-complete than gravel. I've thought about replacing the sand layer with topsoil for more nutrient content , but haven't started a new tank this way yet.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Unless you have some kind of really jumpy, shy fish (which you might need to take special measures for) I think they are fine with any color substrate. Fish in a tank get the chance to feel much safer than wild fish and don't worry so much about hiding or blending in. Making sure your fish are not being bullied or in danger of being eaten by other fish in the tank is most important. It's still nice for them to have places to hide if they feel the need. Plants are great for making fish feel safe and comfortable and in a planted tank not much substrate shows.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Also,another reason planted tanks use dark substrate is to make the plants stand out alot more.The green against black is striking,but if you feel white is best then go with that.I have seen some magnificent tanks with white gravel or sand and darker fish and the plants still stand out!So in tanks its more preference.

gtm,i believe you are right about the security of the fish.Even my wilds have darker brown tops to blend in to the brown bottoms of the rivers,and lighter brown underbellies,to blend in to the blackwater.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would use the eco on top as if it is your gravel. Not sure on how far 1 bag will stretch. Mixing in colorful gravel makes you worry too much about mixxing everything all up. Or, you could mix your top layer with something like the safe-t-sorb stuff mentioned that you can get from tractor supply co. It cost like $7 for 40lbs. I'm using it in two of my tanks. Make that your top layer, like the pro coice that Bob uses, then mix in the eco with your peat.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

One of my tanks has sand,gravel and eco complete mixed.I was told it looks more natural.I like it,but wish it was all black.In another tank i have all black and it looks pretty good.But i had one bag of eco complete and had to stretch it as well.Over the course of moving,it started to mix,so i helped it along.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks all! I was thinking I could use the eco for the top later but I thought that would make it difficult to vac it out. I have a really big pleco and he requires that I vac it out a couple times a week wth an eheim filter in addition to the water changes. And i thought if it was on top it wouldn't be where the roots are and maybe would be kicked up easily by him. However I have never used eco before so I don't really know if my fears are unfounded! The peat will be great because it might help keep my pH down. Maybe using the eco on top will help keep the pleco's waste down with the bacteria in it?


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Pretty tank! and yes, very natural looking!



majerah1 said:


> One of my tanks has sand,gravel and eco complete mixed.I was told it looks more natural.I like it,but wish it was all black.In another tank i have all black and it looks pretty good.But i had one bag of eco complete and had to stretch it as well.Over the course of moving,it started to mix,so i helped it along.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I like that tank too, quite understated but some how well balanced.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Niki7 said:


> Thanks all! I was thinking I could use the eco for the top later but I thought that would make it difficult to vac it out. I have a really big pleco and he requires that I vac it out a couple times a week wth an eheim filter in addition to the water changes. And i thought if it was on top it wouldn't be where the roots are and maybe would be kicked up easily by him. However I have never used eco before so I don't really know if my fears are unfounded! The peat will be great because it might help keep my pH down. Maybe using the eco on top will help keep the pleco's waste down with the bacteria in it?


Plants in general make it hard to vacuum. Eco is not as light as some of the other planted substrates I've used, Think it nearly has the weight of small gravel. I have other stuff that blows around like dust almost. Great for plants but difficult sometimes.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Thanks!It still needs work.One thing about planted tanks,you are never done with them,lol.Or i guess some are,but im not.I want some foreground plants,and more background plants as well.

On the eco complete,it tells you when vacuuming it,to hover above the substrate to pull up the debris.My tank being so lightly stocked,with three fish,i leave the detrius alone,for the plants and just reolace some water.I have a 360 magnum canister filter on here,lol.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks for the input on the eco. I figured that vac'ing would be a little different in a fully planted tank. With the guppies I never had to do separate vac'ing other than at water changes but that pleco is as messy as a goldfish lol! When I got him he was fairly small but now he is probably 6" long at least. Our own little dinosaur as my son calls him! At some point he may have his own tank.

I think I will see how far I can stretch the eco when it gets here, should be delivered tomorrow. Meanwhile I'll start soaking the peat layer and try and find some sand too. Will post pics when done!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Just checking if ya got the eco,and made any progress on the build?


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

The eco did not come in *td so I opted to go beaslbob all the way on this tank (I am SO impatient!) and save the eco for the two smaller tanks. I did the peat sand and gravel. I decided to do the black gravel with a few blue/green gravel pieces for effect. I must say I like a dark substrate. Anyway, I finished the layering today and filled the tank and the water is already clear, HOWEVER somehow I forgot/missed/blanked out on the fact that I should have put the plants in _BEFORE_ the water. Duh. So I expect that the filter will have to work hard again tomorrow after I kick everything up!

Right now I am trying to find a listing of the growth heights of the plants I got today. I didn't get a lot (Petco had a buy 2/get 1 free sale) just in case they grow really big and I'm also taking some from my other tank. One has lost its tag so I don't even know what it is, argh!!

Now boiling my mopani wood, because I really want a piece of wood in there but I absolutely hate the tannins. I've had it in a tank for almost a year and it still stains the water. I'm hoping that boiling it will help. 

Will post pics asap. Overall I am very happy with how it came out so far, although I think I put too much peat in. Eh, plants will be happy! Thanks for asking!


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

here is the tank right after I filled it


here it is a few hours later (lots of bubbles on the aquarium sides)


I know I put too much peat in. Hopefully it will be ok. There is only 3" total substrate but in this little 20gal tank it looks like more I think. Plants in tomorrow!


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Activated carbon will remove the tannins from wood.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks snail, yeah, I tried that and it didn't really work. Any idea why? Not sure why it was so bad for this particular piece of wood except that it seems to be a super dark piece of mopani. I happened to like the darkness as compared to the other pieces that were for sale but now I think it is just extra dark, kind of like espresso compared to regular coffee! Well, I'll try again!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Fresh carbon? It will decrease over time. Frequent water changes will help.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

You can also put purigen in the filter as well.It can be recharged and used over and over.


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