# live foods



## skiffia 1

any one collect there own live foods? i collect and culture many types.6 
months ago i Caught some shrimps instead feeding to fish they are now living in a 2 foot tank lol.


----------



## navigator black

I do, but in season. I have a fishless pond in the yard that fills with Daphnia in Spring, and I wander over to the woods and catch mosquito larvae, shrimp, and daphnia. Right now, everything is frozen, but that will pass.


----------



## Arthur7

I always try to have something fled feed. Now Cyclops, Daphnia in the summer.
With luck, one finds in sandpits and mosquito larvae glass.
I feed little early alive. For the appetite. In the afternoon then artificial diet. Also, just a little. Since the pool stays clean longer.


----------



## navigator black

Here, it is just too cold and there is too much snow. I can't collect until April. I enjoy doing that though.The difference in my killies when the live food comes is fun to observe.


----------



## Farm

Daphnia is wonderful. a definite sign of good weather.


----------



## Arthur7

In the garden pond Daphnia are under the ice.
Not much, but it's only winter.
In the past, I went to the pond in the middle where it is deep.
(Ice for at least 2" thick.) Since I have a hole about 30 cm in diameter. With 4m rod, half under water, I went in a circle. The method was very effective. But now I am no longer young enough. One can break in. I always had a suitcase with dry clothes with.


----------



## skiffia 1

I’m lucky to be able to collect daphnia all year round one particular location I can get mosquito larvae during the winter months but only in low numbers of course,
I also enjoy collecting live foods my first experience was 25 years ago it’s become a way of life. I have occasionally twisted my ankle get bittern by mosquitoes also fall in the water. 
The fish seem to like mosquito larvae better than daphnia there is nothing better than live foods.
foods that I culture are Grindel worms . white worms. Earthworm. Micro worms. Vinegar eels. And fruit flies.


----------



## navigator black

At this point in the year, my favourite fishing spot would have 12 inches of ice and two or three feet of snow on it. It is a large pond in a forest, and the Daphnia, fairy shrimp and mosquito larvae are part of the icemelt cycle in my region. 
Someone is building very expensive houses on what was my other local pond (damp basements coming since it was fed from underground), and the small forest I fish bugs in now has been bought by a developer. I may have to look farther afield next Spring.


----------



## Arthur7

I like to go to catch food. The wintercyclops are more nutritious. Since there are no infections because the germs can not tolerate the temperature jump.
BTW But for 12 "ice you need a drill. I'll take the ax. 8" was maximal.
But you should not be in a remote pond alone.


----------



## kalyke

I am starting to.


----------



## alhays31808

What do daphnia look like?


----------



## vreugy

Skiffia1, how do you collect fruit flys??? I assume you mean the tiny little creatures that always swarm my bananas. They are very hard to catch or even swat. I always get them in the summer months. They drive me nuts, so if I could feed them to my fish, I would be very happy to see them eaten.


----------



## Arthur7

Daphnia are very sensitive to chemical water pollution.
Come in a bucket that was previously used to house cleaning, they die quickly.
This is a test of whether vessels are suitable for fish, or not.
In the pond:
There is little fertilization necessary. Lime, 2kg / 10 cubic meters.
Daphnia avoid moving water. Who thinks to keep under the pond drain a network, capture is not flea.
In managed carp rarely occur daphnia. too much fertilizer.
There he produced Cyclops. The carp host does not want to have there, because in proliferation oxygen deficiency can arise for the fish.
In less stocked ponds (fishing ponds) Daphnia are common.
Daphnia have little nutritional value. But the fish they hunt like to receive appetite and you can then add a little artificial diet without constipation occurs.
Daphnia are necessary for roe is formed.

Still a link for vreugy: http://www.exo-living.at/stuff/droso.htm


----------



## skiffia 1

vreugy said:


> Skiffia1, how do you collect fruit flys??? I assume you mean the tiny little creatures that always swarm my bananas. They are very hard to catch or even swat. I always get them in the summer months. They drive me nuts, so if I could feed them to my fish, I would be very happy to see them eaten.


The fruit flies I use are flit less. They have wings but can’t fly they are often sold in reptile shops. To culture them I mix a some ready brek and banana put it in a jar with a piece of paper for them to climb on add some flies. cover top with some mesh and within 2 weeks you should have plenty to feed to the fish. The problem with culturing wild fruit flies is them flying all over the place.


----------



## vreugy

Ok, I see what you are talking about. Don't think I want to mess with them though. I do feed my fish house flys when I swat them. They love them. Sure wish there was a way to capture the flying fruit flys without killing them with vinegar and soap. 

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the information.


----------



## Arthur7

I gave the text again by the Translater. 

for vreugy

Drosophilazucht:

Introduction:
With the introduction of our Virgin Gecko lady we decided the appropriate food animals - in the case in fruit flies - to breed themselves.
The method should be simple and inexpensive as it did for our BBQ breeding, but not necessarily be the result of high quality.
Were on Mega income and we are not dependent due to our small fruit fly eating Reptilen- and amphibian population.

So we first had to decide which of the eligible species. After a short web research we have opted for the "Large flightless fruit fly" Drosophila hydei.
The following description therefore refers primarily to this kind - and it in breeding, apart from the development time is supposed to be no significant difference.

Materials needed:
The basic equipment for breeding only consists of several jars / containers with about 0.5 liters; suitable air permeable, but escape-proof covering; some wood wool and corresponding mash.
Yes, and of course a breeding approach Fly

The container:
Quite simply: 0.5 liter vinegar pickle jars or similar with a wide neck. Of these, one needs at least four to five.
Cost: 0,00 €

Liner:
Nylon stockings or the like. Since we are still plenty of garden fleece (for covering of fruit / vegetables) had at home, we decided this.
2 layers of which are sufficiently permeable to air and to date no fly escaped. All is fixed easily with rubber rings.
Cost: about 5-7 euros for 10m² of the material, one at each lens changing just two pieces with approx 10x10cm = 0,02m² needed. Thus if the user is from everlasting.

Wood wool:
The wood wool is only necessary to enlarge the climbing surface in glasses.
And here's the tip for those who like us, been looking for a procurement option for wood wool: Just ask in a hardware store or garden center in the fruit and vegetable section afterwards. In general, it is as similar as backing material for strawberries sold. Somewhat problematic is the package size. We had to buy the same 2.5kg of material. Per glass change but you only need a few grams.
Cost: about 8 euros for 2.5kg.

mash:
The mash is seemingly the be-all and the Drosophilazucht. Everyone will swear here on a different recipe. Some of them are so complex that it requires quite a bit of cooking talent.
Our brief was as mentioned above: Simple, inexpensive but good!
By "simple and inexpensive" retired before 95% of all prescriptions, we could find out.
We finally decided for the following recipe, which we have found on the Internet and have only enriched with some vinegar. We have not had any bad experiences to date.

Our recipe:

1 jar applesauce 0.5 liters (the glass has also equal the right size for breeding)
1 package of oatmeal (0.5 kg)
1 package dry yeast
2 tsp vinegar (for the more acidic environment, against mold)

The whole thing is simply mixed with water and mixed until a more solid, rigid mass which results. That's it then again.

As per breeding approach just a small portion of what is needed, we freeze the rest just include it in a freezer bag. Flattened can be used for the next glass easy pieces in the correct size break down.

Cost: The discount just by 1.50 to 2 euro for just over 1 kilo porridge


The total cost of the basic equipment with which one finds the Auslangen for quite some time, so will not exceed 15 to 20 euros.
Roughly equivalent to a glass of newly emerged flies were the food just 20 to 30 cents.
If you (as a packaging material for example) has enough nylon stockings and wood wool at home, the cost of course, are only to expenditure for the mash and the first breeding approach with which one then takes about 13 to 15 cents per glass.

Breeding:
The breed is running properly in normal room temperatures of 20 to 23 ° C. Too warm or too cold temperatures cause a limited proliferation or death of the flies and maggots.

First, the mash is about 1.5 cm filled in the first approach the glass. Too little mash the flies and their larvae not find enough food before and die eventually wear out. Too much porridge can cause mold growth.
So after a little wood wool was placed in the jars need is the fly.

The approach that you get to buy one immediately filled into the glass fresh-looking the best. Since the mixing container (out of business), you can make this container after transplanting the fly are equal without any further action romp already the first fly maggots in general, and only needs to wait for the hatching of the next generation.
Please note however, would be that the mash does not dry out (if something nachfeuchten with water - without drowning the maggots / Flying)

The newly implemented Fly Me now about 10 days in the first breeding own glass. Then they will be already implemented in the second breeding glass, after a further 10 days in the third.
Then should approach in the container you have already bought the first flies have slipped. Of these, one fills a part in the fourth approach glass - the rest will eventually supplied in a glass 5. two or three days with fresh mash and can then be fed.
So should now every 10 days fresh fly hatch from which you always used as part of a new approach and fed the rest.
An entire cycle is from oviposition to hatching of new generation according to literature about 30 to 40 days (Specification for D.hydei - in Drosophila melanogaster about half as long).

To convert:
"Flightless" does not mean that the flies can not jump. Also running is by no means limited.
We also had to find our first Umsetzversuch. The result looked something like this: distributed 20 flies in the new glass throughout the rest of the bathroom.
To spare you the disaster, here are some practical tips for converting.

Once the cover of the container was opened crawl the mini fly endlessly upward. PERMANENT, tapping can all keep falling down.

To convert I rolled a large funnel of an A3 sheet. Even though you would need for one more hand it is so reasonably. The flies will fall by lightly tapping the old glass and the funnel into the new glass underneath. The third hand would be to shake the new glass required.

Who should do it, that no single fly escapes surely deserves our appreciation. We have not yet made it to this day. Therefore it is implemented only on the wet sink. The outlier stick firmly with good luck and then washed away easily.

If it should something come, as with us, to a mass exodus helps only the vacuum cleaner or bug spray.
Good Luck! 

cleaning:
So, now the most disgusting part of the work only remains for description:
The use for breeding, old glasses must of course be cleaned again.
This stick is usually the remains of the pulp, wood wool, a few dead flies and empty cocoons - besides that, the whole thing smells pretty bad.

We use "identical" glasses of which I an original cover (which tightly seals) have canceled.
The glasses I befülle after transplanting the hatched flies quickly as possible with water. Cover it, let stand for about an hour to soften, then shake vigorously and discard the contents.
This work is done best outside or above the toilet.
If you have shaken vigorously enough, the glass should be free of residues to 95%.
The glass is then only thoroughly cleaned with detergent and rinsed clean.

Final word:
Like on the grill breeding: Who is not afraid to work constantly a sufficient quantity of food available and the whole fly for 15 to 30 cents per glass (instead of € 3.50 in the trade).

For those who want to know more about the Drosophilazucht we recommend:
"Feed Livestock: Live food for vivarium animals" by Ursula Friederich and Werner Volland - Ulmer Verlag.






Drosophila hydei



Pupae of Drosophila hydei


----------



## vreugy

Arthur7. Thank you for such a detailed write up. Sounds easy enough. I might have tried it if I were younger and in better health. A lot of people would shy away from maggots and the smell, but it wouldn't bother me. 

I am going to keep your write up. We will be moving in 18-20 months. I will have much more room for my aquariums. I think I might like to try the flightless flys. I will be able to try them then. I know my fish would appreciate them.

Again, thank you so very much for your write up. You are a very knowledgeable person and a great help to our forum.


----------



## skiffia 1

wow 12 "of ice were lucky to see snow,
a start up culture of 20 - 30 fruit flies can produce as more than four hundred
priapella olmecae go crazy for them.


----------



## skiffia 1

priapella


----------



## Auban

i think the only common food i havent cultured was white worms. which are apparently different from grindal worms. 

i have cultured a lot of things that typically arent cultured for fish food. my latest is a type of aquatic oligochaete worm, similiar to black worms, that i found in a pond in north carolina. so far, they reproduce a lot faster than black worms.


----------



## Arthur7

A black worm? I have never seen before. An ice worm, or a dark tubifex kind?
I have collected tubifex years ago. But now there's nowhere more.
It was in streams and rivers in fine muddy banks. But it had to be above some organic food. A mill as husks were on the shore. Or an apple juice factory. The fruit waste came into the water.
Below a wash for pig feed was a delicate bright red tubifex.
But there were also coarser, dark brown. Below the brewery.
The rivers are now kept very clean. but the fish have nothing more to eat.


----------



## Arthur7

skiffia 1 said:


> priapella


Is it P. intermedia? I have had times. In a swarm, beautiful eyes with blue.


----------



## Auban

Arthur7 said:


> A black worm? I have never seen before. An ice worm, or a dark tubifex kind?
> I have collected tubifex years ago. But now there's nowhere more.
> It was in streams and rivers in fine muddy banks. But it had to be above some organic food. A mill as husks were on the shore. Or an apple juice factory. The fruit waste came into the water.
> Below a wash for pig feed was a delicate bright red tubifex.
> But there were also coarser, dark brown. Below the brewery.
> The rivers are now kept very clean. but the fish have nothing more to eat.


black worms are different from tubifex, although i have heard them confused with tubifex before. the easiest way to tell the difference between tubifex and black worms(for those who cant tell by sight alone) is this: tubifex sway when they are in the substrate, black worms do not. and when they are not in substrate, they react differently to being touched. tubifex curl up into a tightly coiled ball, while black worms wriggle in an attempt to escape. 

these are the worms i recently isolated and have started culturing. the look just like the kind sold by the company "california blackworms", but they get a bit longer and are a bit thinner: 


















so far so good, they are reproducing already and i have only had them for a month. im quite surprised by them. they seem to do quite well with temperatures much higher than regular california blackworms, and they are not sensitive to water quality in the slightest. i have seen them surviving in waters that were absolutely putrid, thought they do better in clean water. 

im quite impressed with them. once i get them fully figured out, i plan on sending some cultures out to people to try out.


----------



## Arthur7

Good informative photos. but I've never seen the black worm. Are readily eaten by the fish?
How does it work with the culture? Is there a Latin name?
My Apologies. I'm curious.


----------



## Auban

backworm, species: Lumbriculus variegatus

im not sure how they are farmed in califorinia, but so far, i find that they do pretty well in half of an inch of sand. i have not started feeding mine, i simply leave the light on 24/7 so that their tank grows a lot of algae and cyanobacteria. the worms seem to eat the algae/cyanobacteria. they could be eating something else, but if they are, i dont know what it is. i havent had long to work with them, so i still have a lot of things to try in order to see what makes them grow. 

and so far as fish eating them, yes, they accept them readily. they are considered to be one of the best live foods for fish that will not eat. very few fish will ignore a blackworm. 


blackworms that are farmed in california seem to be sensitive to water quality. if the water starts to stink, most of the worms have already died off. but thats not the case with the species i have... in fact, its one of the ways i harvest them. i take a mass of plant matter that is full of worms and let it sit in stagnant water. when the water begins to putrefy, the worms come to the surface, but they dont die.


----------



## Auban

i just found a harvesting method for these worms... they dont like voltage. i found them in floating mats of plant matter in the pond on my property. the hardest part has been harvesting them. the best methods i found were kinda slow. it would take all day to get half a pound of blackworms. but, i found one that can give me an ounce every few minutes. 


basically, i just set the mat of plant matter in water and apply voltage. 18 volts at about 200 amps. the worms scramble immediately, leaving the mat. then i siphon them up and im good to go. 

so, i dont even have to culture them by this point. this method would probably work for any such worm. there are lumbriculus species all over the world, so chances are, your local pond scum has some. 

supposedly they reproduce primarily through segmentation, and sexually mature worms are rare. but, i have already collected a few hundred sexually mature worms. i know they are mature because i see them are carrying eggs. 

needless to say, im pretty excited about these worms. they seem much hardier and much easier to breed and keep and ( now that i know how) to harvest than any worm i have ever cultured for fish food.


----------



## Arthur7

With the name I was looking for. It is also available in Europe and Asia.
It is important, I think. Perhaps an alternative to tubifex

Lumbriculus variegatus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe you have to share them in pieces for propagation. Always more than 8 segments.
Do you want to try the generative method?


----------



## Auban

Arthur7 said:


> With the name I was looking for. It is also available in Europe and Asia.
> It is important, I think. Perhaps an alternative to tubifex
> 
> Lumbriculus variegatus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Maybe you have to share them in pieces for propagation. Always more than 8 segments.
> Do you want to try the generative method?


i have tried cutting the California black worms(Lumbriculus variegatus) in half before to propagate them and it does work, but its slow. they dont grow very fast. these worms that i have now are a different species of Lumbriculus, and they produce sexually mature worms. they can also be propagate by cutting them in half, but they seem to reproduce faster through egg production. however, the worms that hatch are only a few millimeters long and spend a lot of their time swimming in the water column. 

i have two cultures set up right now, and ill be seeing what works best for producing them.


----------



## Arthur7

Maybe they can give an information again when results are. It interests me.
Free swimming animals that can flee, might have to be caught on the other.


----------



## skiffia 1

Arthur7 said:


> Is it P. intermedia? I have had times. In a swarm, beautiful eyes with blue.


it's priapella Olmeca. very similar to P. intermedia and P. compressa all 3 have
beautiful blue eyes.


----------

