# "Melting" crypt?



## frogwings

I recently purchased a cryptocoryne wendtii, bronze. It was potted and had a large, healthy root system. I removed it from the pot and cleaned off all the wool material as best I could, then floated it in my tank for a couple of days, planning to plant it after removing a large red melon sword. The crypt started just "melting" and most of the leaves broke off. I took it out and put it in a smaller tank, planted in good substrate. It still looks bad. Will this poor, pathetic plant revive? What did I do wrong?


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## KG4mxv

was it shipped to you?

if so it might have gotten frozen


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## KG4mxv

The voice of experience


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## BBradbury

Hello frog...

Moving Cryptocoryne will kill off most of the leaves because it's extremly sensative to a change in water conditions. These are a great aquatic plant that does well in a variety of lighting.

When I get "Crypts", I remove all the growing material and plant it. It can sometimes take weeks for an aquarium plant to get used to your tank conditions, so there are three things that I do to ensure recovery of the plant:

Make sure you've done your research on the plant and have the right lighting. If you not sure, then it's wise to have close to 2 watts of light per gallon of tank volume. This will help you grow a wide variety of aquatic plants.

You need to have a steady fertilizer source. You can have a lot of fish in the tank or dose a good commercial liquid, dry or granule.

You need to keep a high level of water minerals. This means you need to replace a minimum of half the water in the tank every week.

If you can provide these three, you'll have a successful, planted tank.

B


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## BBradbury

jccaclimber said:


> ^Seems a bit much for a plant that grows almost anywhere. With EI I change my water at 50%/week, but the crypts in my low light q-tank are happy. When it has fish it gets biweekly water changes at 30%, and less when there aren't fish in it.


Hello jc...

I have low tech, low light tanks and I think even those plants that prefer low light do best in extremely pure water. Even before my tanks became heavily stocked and I dosed organic liquids, my plant growth was slow at best.

But, when I started flushing a lot of pure, treated water through my tanks every 6 to 7 days, the plants improved considerably. 

Most plants in low light conditions grow pretty slowly, but once they get used to the tank conditions all they really need for good health is stable water conditions and that's best accomplished with large, weekly water changes.

Thanks for your comment.

B


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## jrman83

Bottom line...the OP did nothing wrong. It is just normal for this plant. Doesn't always happen, but if it does it will grow back.

Frog - I would move the plant back to where you had if that is where you wanted it. It will come back, but may look a little rough for a week or two.


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## susankat

Plus 1 with jrman

Also the main reason for water changes is to remove toxins in the tank and as a side benefit will replace some trace elements needed by fish and plants. Relying on fish to fert tank does help some but there is always elements that are needed that is not in fish poo or in water.

Ferts needed comes in many different forms and will usually need a water column fert and a root tab. Some plants are heavy root feeders and some will only take ferts from the water column. There are some that need both to thrive.

I have kept low light, med light and close to high light tanks. Even walstead tanks. I have seen differences in plants in relation to water changes and if/or not any ferts are added. Even in low light tanks that are heavily stocked there are still some nutrients needed by the plants that not provided by water changes or fish and need to be dosed for a healthy tank.


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## frogwings

I bought the crypt at Petsmart and it was a great looking specimen. Then the big melt. So-o-o-o, I went back to Petsmart and asked about the water they keep the plants in. They do not heat or treat their water. Big difference! Since the water in my tank is 78 degrees, that would be shock enough (not including the journey the crypt has already made). I do regular water changes but the fert thing is something I have not done yet. The substrate I use has ferts and minerals in it already but I will need to start using the ferts now as the original ones are depleted. 

Since I have already moved the crypt into a separate tank and put it in new substrate, I think I will leave it there until I move the sword it is replacing. (That is, when I get up the nerve to disrupt the tank inhabitants. I just introduced 2 new oto cats and want to give them time to acclimate.) At least the water is the same temp as the tank and has the same parameters. 

I did get a crypt lutea when I set the tank up and it did fine, so I guess I was fortunate. Also, if memory serves me, it was bare root. Maybe that made a difference?


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## frogwings

Let me see if I understand this: if a plant has been grown immersed and then planted submerged, it will do the melting thing? Or does it just depend on the plant? I was reading about acclimating new plants to an aquarium and it was suggested that it be floated until new growth appears. Aside from the melt down, the leaves all grew sideways toward the light when I floated this plant. I would imagine this could be solved by turning the plant over now and then.


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## Alasse

Seen my tanks??

I do not do weekly water changes, more like every 3-4 weeks, sometimes longer. Some of my planted, especially the low light (under 1 WPG) i do not add fertz in any form.

I move my crypts fairly often. I move them from heated to non heater, to rich substrate to inert substrate.

I do not trim them down when replanted, i just put em in the substate, whatever that maybe and they grow beautifully.

I grown them emmersed myself and changed them to submerged

Yet NEVER have i experience crypt melt.....i find them to be one of the absolute hardiest plant.


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## Alasse

I have different water sources, some tanks are using 1 lot others are using the other, some have a mix of both *L* so yeah not convinced on the parameters theory either


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## frogwings

Maybe it all boils down to the length of time the particular plant is in transition. And, how drastic that transition is. I did see your tanks, Rebecca, and they are lovely. It looks like you have had great success with your plants. This is a learning process for me as I am quite new to the aquarium scene and, although I have raised many orchids, african violets, and exotic palms, aquatic plants are challenging. Most of the knowledge I have acquired has been from the helpful folks on this forum. I would say experience is the best teacher but I would like to avoid as many casualties as possible, so until I acquire more experience, I must get my information from those who have the knowledge. 

jc: Thank you for clarifying emersed (immersed?) vs. submerged and how it effects aquatic plants. Once the "bronze" starts showing new growth, I will move it to the 10 gallon and see what happens!


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## jrman83

Crypts are crypts. One person's experience with them does not show how the plant reacts to conditions outside that one person's tanks. Regardless of one's own experience, melting is a common thing for this plant - period. All you need to do is google crypt melt and you will get many, many results. I have personally taken one out of my CO2 tanks and added to a non-CO2 and every leaf melted on every plant transferred. But, the plant doesn't die....so who cares if the leaves go away or not? In a month or so, nobody but you will ever know it happened and in the end it is the same plant you started with. Once they adapt to your tank, they are very hardy.


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## Alasse

jrman83 said:


> Crypts are crypts. One person's experience with them does not show how the plant reacts to conditions outside that one person's tanks. Regardless of one's own experience, melting is a common thing for this plant - period. All you need to do is google crypt melt and you will get many, many results. I have personally taken one out of my CO2 tanks and added to a non-CO2 and every leaf melted on every plant transferred. But, the plant doesn't die....so who cares if the leaves go away or not? In a month or so, nobody but you will ever know it happened and in the end it is the same plant you started with. Once they adapt to your tank, they are very hardy.


Just curious as to WHY it does in some tank and doesnt in others is all, there must be a reason. Learning is a good thing!

We were only discussing the issue, well i thought we were anyway *L*


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## Alasse

jccaclimber said:


> At this point I'm just curious about the physiology of the melt (see sig line).


^^^Yep


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## frogwings

Ditto that!


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## jrman83

jccaclimber said:


> I guess the way to test this would be to package a crypt up the way it would be for transportation, leave it packed away for the duration of the expected trip (say an afternoon), and then replant it in the same tank and see if you could induce a melt. Once you can cause it, you understand a bit more about it. For example, I can induce BGA in my 75g by adding too little phosphate, but cause no changes by adding extra. That tells me that phosphate alone cannot cause an algae bloom, at least for my conditions.


You would have to change tanks. I don't think the plant gets stressed from a removal and replant and that is what causes the melt. Like I said, I got it from just moving from one tank to the other. I got some recently from a store for my kid's tank that had been in the store's tank for quite a while and the 7-8 we got melted. I think water hardness (gh) is the factor. Whether you go up or down, a change will induce the melt. That would be very easy to test.


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## Alasse

Yeah dunno
Ive Moved from:

*high GH to low GH tanks (i have two different water sources here)
*low GH to high GH
*heated to unheated
*unheated to heated
*nutrient rich substrate to inert
*inert to nutrient rich
*high PH into low PH
*low PH into high PH
*emersed to submersed
*submersed to emersed
*high light to low light
*low light to high light
*high/low light to ambient light
*ambient light to low/high light
*cycling tanks to cycled
*cycled to cycling

I've left them to float around in an unlit tank, then planted them into a high light tank. Crammed into a bucket for around 4 weeks them planted
I live around 30min from the LFS, so they are packed at least that long. I bought them in both summer and winter
They just dont seem to melt for me.

I do trim the roots before planting anywhere, makes it easier to put them into the substrate. I never leave any root exposed to just the water.
I do remove any leaf that does not look healthy prior to moving, but i do this with every plant

So 'shrugs' dunno, got me stumped

*In my 4ft recently shown, the crypts were moved from a rainwater (low PH/low GH) to a town water tank (very high PH/very high GH), they never melted and are growing like weeds!


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## jrman83

Then you have been blessed with good water...not a mystery to me and not worth thinkng about. It is all in the water and nothing else. It would be different if the plants were dying, but they come back like nothing ever happened so whether it happens or not doesn't really matter. A google search of crypt melt comes back with dozens and dozens of pages on the subject from many, many, different forums. It is commonplace for crypts.


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## susankat

I have had them melt just by moving from one spot to another in the same tank. And then not melt moving to a different tank. Theres just no rhyme or reason to it.


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## Alasse

jrman83 said:


> Then you have been blessed with good water...not a mystery to me and not worth thinkng about.


Well thats ok if you dont want to think about it or find it a mystery, just avoid the thread. I'am interested and do find it a mystery worth delving into.



> It is all in the water and nothing else.


If it was all just in the water...how do you explain the vast water differences i have moved them too? And how some can move them in the same tank and have them melt??



> It would be different if the plants were dying, but they come back like nothing ever happened so whether it happens or not doesn't really matter.


Again it doesnt matter to you! Again fine.....but it does to us curious people  



> A google search of crypt melt comes back with dozens and dozens of pages on the subject from many, many, different forums. It is commonplace for crypts.


Yep and i did actually state that many seem to have the problem. Still it would be great to figure out why rather than just put up with it eh?


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## jrman83

Alasse said:


> Well thats ok if you dont want to think about it or find it a mystery, just avoid the thread. I'am interested and do find it a mystery worth delving into.


You're absolutely right, you must be the first person to ever ponder this. Good luck in finding the answer if this is the avenue you approach to get there.



> If it was all just in the water...how do you explain the vast water differences i have moved them too? And how some can move them in the same tank and have them melt??


The water is the environemt. My guess is that your water isn't as vastly different as you believe. What are the elements that break down in general hardness? Maybe yours is higher/lower in a particular element that makes it less susceptibale? None of the other things you mention make any sense except emersed/submerged - another environemt change. 



> Yep and i did actually state that many seem to have the problem. Still it would be great to figure out why rather than just put up with it eh?


Again, Good Luck!


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## Alasse

jrman83 said:


> You're absolutely right, you must be the first person to ever ponder this. Good luck in finding the answer if this is the avenue you approach to get there.
> 
> The water is the environemt. My guess is that your water isn't as vastly different as you believe. What are the elements that break down in general hardness? Maybe yours is higher/lower in a particular element that makes it less susceptibale? None of the other things you mention make any sense except emersed/submerged - another environemt change.
> 
> 
> Again, Good Luck!


I know its vastly different because i've tested it *L*. I have tanks running on vastly different water sources to suit the fish i want to keep.
The other things are also different so do make sense in regards to crypts melting, not obviously not to all it seems


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## jrman83

Tested for? Calcium, Magnesium, Copper, Sodium, ??? Testing gh level is not enough detail.


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## Alasse

One is pure rainwater one is ground water, on that alone i can guarantee the levels vary greatly.

Taking the crypts form my LFS which is about 20 minutes away and running on dam water, again it will be different. 

But i will see if i can get sample retested to give results from all 3 supplies


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## frogwings

What an enlightening discussion!! I have learned a great deal from reading the experiences and theories presented about crypt melt. After studying all the input, both from here and from Google, I have concluded that crypt melt has a vast list of causes, none of which are a "given". I have also considered: 

The grower's parameters: are they completely different (ie: water parameters, ferts, temp. [both water and weather], health of parent plant, handling, amount of time in transit, temp. in transportation conditions, just to cover a few of the unkown situations encountered buy a particular plant)? I would think that any one or combination of these unknowns could cause the big "melt down". 

When all is said and done, I think it just happens - not all the time, but frequently. I, as the new caretaker of this lovely plant, am responsible for establishing a healthy and happy environment for it to succeed. I feel that I am doing the right things at this point and it will be a "wait & see" situation.

Update: The crypt in question looks like it has stopped melting and the smaller, newer leaves are holding their own. Next milestone is new growth!


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## jrman83

Just get out the melting leaves as soon as you see it happening. Otherwise they will turn to mush and when you go to take them out they go everywhere in your tank almost like powder.


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## frogwings

Ben: I did not catch the first few that disintegrated and saw them do exactly what you said! Mush! I removed what I could and the rest just disappeared into the water and sounding vegetation. After I removed the plant, scooped, and hand picked the **** out as best I could, the water is looking good. Live and learn! Thanks!


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