# Hazy water



## L.West

I have a newly setup 75 gallon tank that I just can't get the water crystal clear. I have a marine land c360 and ac110 filters running on this tank. It's been up for 10 days now. 

I rinsed the gravel in a collendar at the sink before putting it in my tank. 

What do you all think is causing this haze in my tank. 

Thanks


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## CAM

You cycling it with or without fish?

Any driftwood?

What are your water parameters?


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## L.West

I am cycling with fish (danios). I have one large piece of driftwood. Currently water params are ammonia .25, nitrite 0


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## CAM

Didn't see any nitrate level but appears you are still cycling.

What media do you have in your filter?


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## L.West

The media in the c360 is sponges, sachem matrix in two trays, chemipure carbon and bio max. Yes, I am still cycling


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## DarkestCloud

Did you soak the driftwood before adding it? Also, nice avatar.


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## Raymond S.

Without bio additives (Tetra Safe Start etc.) a cycle takes as much as 6-8 weeks. Since I use the Safe Start I have never had the cloudiness so I can't offer
any suggestions as to how long it should last. But it is part of the cycle. Others can give more detail on that especially the time it last.
Some/most driftwood will change the clarity of the water depending on several factors such as how long if at all was the wood in water before you got it.
Some of what comes from say e-bay was collected from in the water and likely that won't dull the water or not near as much as say Malaysian driftwood.
Now what do I know about Malaysia from personal experience...but my imagination says that that driftwood never saw water till you put it in the tank so
it would seep tannins for a while.


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## CAM

DarkestCloud said:


> Did you soak the driftwood before adding it? Also, nice avatar.


Yes.... for several weeks. Baked it too.

Thanks. Should see that piece of driftwood in person.... beautiful piece of Mopani.


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## coralbandit

The cloudiness could just be a bacterial bloom.New tanks (even some established) can go through this if it can't hanndle conditions.Try feeding less for a week or so.Like only every other or third day(the fish will be fine).


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## L.West

I added Tetra Safe Start when I set the tank up 10 days ago. The water was very clear at first and then got sorta hazy and tea like - so I immediately took out the driftwood and boiled it to get out the tannins and to help it to stay sunk. The water got hazy again so I did a 40% water change this weekend but it is still hazy.

This is driving me nuts - I have never had a tank do this. It is really taking teh enjoyment of a new tank right out the window.

Also, how come my tank didn't cycle if I too added the tetra safe start??


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## CAM

TSS isn't going to instantly cycle your tank. It simply helps and shortens the time it takes. 

The haze you're seeing... is it tea-like, from the drift wood, or is it more like a cloudiness ?


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## L.West

Well, at first it was more tea like so I removed the driftwood and boiled it - then returned it to the tank. Right now it is more of a hazy look in the upper portion of the tank. If you look from the front it isn't too bad (not great) but not horrible - when you look from the side all the way to the other side it is very visible.

Please help....tell me what you think I should do to correct this problem.

Thank you sooo much


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## L.West

Hi Cam,

Here is a picture of my tank with the hazy look.

Please let me know what you think I should do.


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## CAM

If you are using carbon, remove it.

Use some Seachem Purigen.


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## L.West

Im using ChemiPure which is supposed to be the best carbon. What is it that the carbon is doing to cause this?? I will check into the stuff you mentioned. Do you think this is serious or will it correct itself


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## CAM

I don't think carbon is causing it, unless it's been in the tank over a month. 

But carbon doesn't remove impurities like Purigen does. 

My new tank was still a bit hazy after two months. I was running some premium carbon in floss cartridge. Same as you, looked just a bit cloudy, especially when looking through end-to-end. 

Switched to Purigen and 48 hours later my tank was gorgeous, crystal clear, and has been ever since.

Hope you get the same results !!


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## WheeledGoat

i only have 2 thoughts:

-when the tank is cycling, expect that things aren't going to be where you want them. it's a transition period. i don't have a direct theory on why cycling would cause cloudy water, but it sufficed in my brain to just chalk it up to things I don't understand and postpone worrying about it until ammonia = 0.

-while some may frown upon it, I do use a water clarifying agent from time to time. i won't use it a lot because no doubt it's binding up at least some of my fertz, but when cloudy water gets stubborn to where water changes and a clean filter aren't cutting it, I go ahead and use some. (maybe 1-2x/year). I chalk it up to odd minerals of some sort, or the occasional precipitation reactions between something or other. to my knowledge, a water clarifying product won't interfere with cycling - might be worth a try, if only to help diagnose the cause.


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## L.West

CAM said:


> I don't think carbon is causing it, unless it's been in the tank over a month.
> 
> But carbon doesn't remove impurities like Purigen does.
> 
> My new tank was still a bit hazy after two months. I was running some premium carbon in floss cartridge. Same as you, looked just a bit cloudy, especially when looking through end-to-end.
> 
> Switched to Purigen and 48 hours later my tank was gorgeous, crystal clear, and has been ever since.
> 
> Hope you get the same results !!



Thanks for the tip - I placed an order for the Purigen - should have it within the week. Just to clarify though - in the meantime the hazy water isn't hurting my fish or my cycle - correct??


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## CAM

No, as long as your water quality is fine the haziness is nothing more than an aesthetic thing.


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## L.West

Well, since I am still in the midst of my cycle - I wouldn't say my waters param are fine but they are what they are for now. I've added the safe start to help things along so there isn't much else I can do until it cycles.

Do you suggest partial water changes during the cycle or not. I get different opinions on this.

Thanks again for your help - you've been a big help.


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## CAM

Absolutely. Water changes are essential during the cycling process, especially so with fish-in cycling. 

Monitor Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates at least daily. Any time you are seeing Ammonia or Nitrites above trace amounts, change water. 

Toxic levels of Ammonai or Nitrite can kill fish quickly. But even lower amounts, less then 1 ppm, can cause long term damage. 

Nitrates are expected and are present in a cycled tank. They are the by product of bacteria converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrites to nitrates. But you should try to keep them under 40 ppm. Levels higher than that, again, do long term damage to the fish. Nitrates can only be removed by water changes.


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## WheeledGoat

CAM said:


> Nitrates can only be removed by water changes.


...and plants!! *h/b


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## CAM

True. But if you have plants and still are getting high nitrate readings, are you going to remove them by changing water or adding more plants ?

;-)


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## catfisherpro

Try adding a lil algae remover I used it on my tank when it was all hazy it cleared up in a couple hrs


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## WheeledGoat

CAM said:


> True. But if you have plants and still are getting high nitrate readings, are you going to remove them by changing water or adding more plants ?
> 
> ;-)


hmmm.... wait, I know this one. uhhhh... just gimme a minute, I know there's a right answer...


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## CAM

*pc


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## L.West

Cam, just to clarify - once my ammonia reaches 1ppm I should do another water change?? Will this impede my cycle?? How much water should I change.

Thanks


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## lonedove55

Not sure if this has been addressed or not, but I noticed in your pic that you have rocks also in this tank. Do you know what kind they are? If they are limestone, they may be causing the cloudiness in the water and will eventually increase the ph of the water. Not necessarily a bad thing with nothing but danios, but may influence future fish you might want to add. But, it might just be a bacterial bloom as stated above and/or the driftwood still leaching tannins. I'm not a big fan of algae removers..they are a temporary fix at best.

In my experience, mopani wood has an oily substance that also leaches into the water. You might try this to see if its the mopani wood causing the cloudiness: During your next water change, before adding the new dechlorinated water, take a white paper towel (Scott brand are great as they do not have any lint or additives) and wipe the glass above the water line and see if there is any oily residue.

I agree with others above: keep ammonia and nitrites down to a minimum < 1.0ppm (water changes) during cycling process. Cut back on feeding as the excess food will feed the bacteria also. Purigen is a great product and might help with the cloudiness. It will also remove nitrates (up to a point), so it _MAY_ be difficult to detect a measurable amount of nitrates especially since you have a low bio load.


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## L.West

The rocks in my tank were sold to me as Sandstone from a local pond/patio retailer. I rinsed them off before putting them in my tank. I don't believe the driftwood I am using is Mopani. I boiled the log to help remove the tannins.


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## L.West

The reason I don't think the haziness is caused from the gravel is because 2 days after I set it up the water cleared out (see pic).



So, if it was dirty gravel then the water wouldn't have cleared out and then went hazy again.


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## coralbandit

Bacterial bloom!Have you tested your source water yet?Sometimes mysteries can be traced back to your source water and what is in it.


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## CAM

L.West said:


> Cam, just to clarify - once my ammonia reaches 1ppm I should do another water change?? Will this impede my cycle?? How much water should I change.
> 
> Thanks


Impeding your cycle is secondary to not killing your fish. 

test your water every day. When ammonia is at 1 or more, change out 50%. 

When you do a test and ammonia and nitrites are below 1 and it's been 24 hours since your last use of a water conditioner during a water change, I would add a healthy dose of Tetra SafeStart. Then keep testing and slowly add more fish as long as your ammonia is less than 1, Nitrites are non-existent, and you are seeing steady presence of Nitrates. 

I might sound like a broken record in that respect but TSS worked like a charm in both of my tanks.


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## L.West

coralbandit said:


> Bacterial bloom!Have you tested your source water yet?Sometimes mysteries can be traced back to your source water and what is in it.


I would have suspected the city water supply also but I also have a 10 gallon tank that has never had this problem - it is beyond crystal clear.


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## L.West

Cam, when I do the suggested water changes - do I also vac the gravel??

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying - test my water daily, if ammonia or nitrite is over 1 ppm do a water change. Once I can go 24 hours without a spike then I am on my way to a cycled tank - is this correct.

My plans for this tank is to have only one oscar in it so I won't be adding any other fish during the cycle. Once its done cycling I will purchase my oscar.

Sorry for all the questions but I want to do this right.


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## CAM

Wait... I thought you already had a couple of fish in the tank. You don't ??


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## CAM

I see you are... Danios. Okay....

Yes, you can vacuum during some of the water changes. Just do the top of the gravel, not deep. maybe a half inch to an inch. If you feed on the heavy side, more vacuuming. Light feedings, less vacuuming.


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## L.West

I will be sure to keep the feedings light. I will give it a few days and post my progress on this.

Thanks again for all your help.


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## L.West

One last thing for today - can I use Seachem Stability instead of buying more Tetra Safe Start??


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## CAM

Stability is a different product. never used it and not sure what it does. Will have to research it later on (heading out of office now).


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## coralbandit

Stability is another bottled bacteria with many claims.The only reason anyone here endorses(so to speak) TSS is that actual members have posted their use and results from it.
If you have stability then by all means use it and please follow the directions.If it is the only bottled bacteria you can get then there is probly no harm in it.But if TSS is available to you and you don't already have the stability then I would get the TSS.
You will still need to monitor your water quality throghout which ever you get ,but either can't hurt anything but your wallet!


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## L.West

I checked my water parameters last night - 24 hrs after my last water change. They were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0.5 nitrate

I will continue to check them as the days progress.


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## CAM

Good !! Now you just want to see an increase in Nitrates to be confident your tank is cycled.


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## L.West

I don't think the tank is cycled to be honest. I just did a water change on Sunday which is why I am getting the 0 readings. I have not seen any nitrites yet on this tank.

Wouldn't I need to see an ammonia spike, then a nitrite spike in order for it to be cycled??

I will continue to test.


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## CAM

This is Tuesday. Two days and your tank isn't showing any Ammonia or Nitrites ? Darn close to being cycled. 

And for the record, once I added TSS to my tanks, I never once registered even a tiny amount of Nitrites. I believe the bacteria that converts Nitrites to Nitrates is more easily established in tanks then the ones that convert Ammonia to Nitrites.

But let's see some more Nitrates before we declare victory.


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## L.West

I will test it tonight and post the results. If I do show ammonia then it just means that the tank is still cycling correct.

I can't thank you enough for all your help.


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## CAM

Most likely, yes. Now, if you ever get a reading of 0.25, it could be a false reading of ammonia. The API test does that sometimes. But most of the time you get an ammonia result on the test, it's there and yes, it means you have more bioload in the tank than the bacteria can process and your tank needs more time to cycle. 

And no problem ! That's what this forum is about, talking fish/tanks and helping each other. I've received more help than I've given.


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## L.West

Here is a real stumper for you LOL - I have a 10 gallon tank with one goldfish in it. The temp is steady at 70 degrees. I have had this tank running for like 8 weeks and also added the TSS to this tank back when I first set it up but according to the tests it has never cycled. The tank is crystal clear and the goldfish seems fine but I still get readings of ammonia and have never had a reading of nitrites. I thought maybe the cooler water temp was impeding the cycle but after 8 weeks I should be done.

No one can figure this tank out. Any suggestions. I keep doing water changes when the ammonia reaches 1ppm to make sure my goldfish doesn't suffer.

But when in the world is this tank going to cycle.


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## CAM

With the amount of poop a goldfish produces in 8 weeks, you should have enough bacteria to instantly cycle a dozen 55-gallon tanks. ;-)

So yes, odd that you're still getting ammonia readings. How are the nitrate readings in that tank ?


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## L.West

You know, I've only tested for ammonia and nitrites - I will test for everything tonight and post for you to see. I will see a spike in ammonia up to 1ppm and 0 nitrites - then I do a water change to help out my goldie.

I really didn't think the nitrates played too much of a role in the cycling - I always focused on the ammonia and nitrites.

I would really like to get these two tanks situated - maybe you can hang in there with me to help me accomplish this.


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## CAM

Yeah, you need to test for nitrates also. Not only to see where your tank is in the cycling process but also make sure they're not building up and becoming toxic to the fish (anything over 40 ppm is too high). 

And remember, bacteria will remove ammonia and nitrites but only you can remove nitrates.


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## L.West

How does the reading of Nitrates tell me where I am in my cycling process. I just need to know so when I test tonight I can see where I am at.

I thought I was undoing all my cycling on this 10 gallon tank every time I did a water change - but I had to do a water change to bring down the ammonia.

Like I mentioned - this take is soooo crystal clear it is amazing.


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## CAM

The consistent presence of Nitrates above the level in your tap water shows that you have the beneficial bacteria in your tank that are converting the Ammonia to Nitrite and the Nitrite to Nitrate. 

No Nitrates, or nitrates same level as your tap water (for instance, my tap water contains 5 ppm) means that nitrogen cycle is not taking place. 

I bet when you test your goldfish tank, your nitrates are there. You've been removing them when removing ammonia so they're not going to be too high, I bet. Will be anxious to see.


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## L.West

Great - I will test my tank and post the results. Plus I will test my tap water to see what that is reading.

thanks again.


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## CAM

*pc

You're Welcome !


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## L.West

Hi Cam, I checked my water params on both my tanks:

75 gallon - ammonia 0, nitrite 0 , nitrate 10-20 (hard to tell the colors r so close. 

10 gallon - the goldfish mystery tank. I did a 50 percent water change and vac the gravel on April 27th. Tonight the water params are ammonia 1, nitrite 0, nitrate 20. This tank has only ever shown ammonia no nitrites. 

The city tap water is showing a 10/20 nitrates. Again it's hard to tell the color sample card on the API kit is so close in colors. 

Let me know what you think I should do next. Thanks


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## CAM

Well..... good news on the 75 is you fish are comfy. Nothing toxic in that tank. Bad news is your tap water has the same amount of nitrates as the tank so it would not appear it's cycled. Just keep testing daily for all three and keep a record of your results. 

The small tank appears to have slightly higher nitrates which is encouraging. But that Ammonia needs to be removed or at least reduced. Do a 50% water change and test again tomorrow.


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## L.West

Thanks. Can I continue to consult with you until I get these tanks situated?


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## CAM

Of course!

Keep updating this thread with your test results.


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## L.West

Hi Cam, after getting that reading on my test kit of nitrates in my city tap water - I called and spoke to the city water dept engineer - he read me the current results from their testing and he said that there was no way nitrates could ever be at 10/20 ppm - it would be against the law.

He said their current readings are showing 1.08ppm Nitrates.

I will run the test again at home on the city water - maybe I screwed up.

But, given this information - that means good news for my tanks - correct.


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## CAM

Well.... MAYBE. 

If you got a bad test result on your tap water, you may have gotten bad test results on your tank water too. 

When doing the API Nitrate test, make sure you give the tube a few inverted turns after adding 10 drops of the first solution. And be very precise with your drops. Most importantly, mix that number two bottle VERY well before you add those drops.... it has particles suspended in it. I always bang it on my thigh a few times to make sure the particles are loss, then vigorously shake the bottle for 30 seconds, add the ten drops, then shake the tube vigorously for 60 seconds.


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## L.West

Yes, I did all that on the Nitrate test per the instructions in the directions.

I will test again tonight. I just bought this new API test kit and it has a good expirey date so I don't think it is the test kit.

Is the API test kit the one you recommend or is there something better.


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## CAM

IMO, there is no better test kit out there. I think that's the general consensus among this forum, too. 

Yep, test again and lets see what the results are this time.


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## L.West

Do you agree that the difference in the color swatches is sooo similar that its hard to tell on some of the readings - maybe its just me though.


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## CAM

The ones between 10 and 20 are hard to tell apart, I agree. 

Very light orange, 5 ppm or less. 

Dark orange, 40 ppm. 

It's the ones in between that are difficult but it's not such a big deal to know 10 or 20 unless your tap water has 10 and you're trying to cycle the tank. But otherwise, you are fine at the 10-20 range.


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## L.West

I can't wait to get this 75 gallon cycled so I can buy my new Oscar baby.

I will post my results tonight so be sure to check back on this thread.

Your help has meant the world to me.


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## CAM

I know what you mean. I waited a couple of months after starting up my 75 gallon to add my Roseline Sharks. Just added the last two a few days ago. It seems like forever before you can fully stock it but it's worth the wait. 

Continue to be patient because you can really screw up your tank if you start adding fish too soon or too fast !

And no problem at all. enjoy helping because I want to help you make sure your fish are happy and healthy.


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## L.West

During this cycling phase - should I be doing regular water changes or just when the water parameters dictate a need for a water change.

Am I understanding this correctly in that the longer the current fish are in the tank doing their thing the better for when I do finally add my Oscar.


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## CAM

Let your tests dictate when you change water. Either your ammonia/nitrites or the build up of nitrates will tell you when you need to change water during cycling. 

After cycling is complete, then you can set up a routine schedule for water changes. 

Yes, those danios are doing their thing. They're creating ammonia for the bacteria colonies to build. You said you have a few, right ? Exactly how many danios did you put in your 75 gallon ?


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## L.West

I have 5 mollies and 4 danioes. They have been in this tank from the beginning.


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## CAM

OK.... in a 75, that's plenty of ammonia being added to cycle it.


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## L.West

Hi Cam, first off I retested the tap water for nitrates. I would say it is reading 5ppm

Now for my 75 gallon readings- keep in mind that the last water changed was done last Sunday. My readings tonight were ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10
The water is now quite clear again

On the 10 gallon tank - my readings tonight after just changing the water 24 hrs ago are ammonia .25, nitrites 0, nitrates 20. What is up with the constant presence of ammonia in this tank - I just can't figure it out.


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## coralbandit

First I'll say CAM is doing a great job with his advice.Now I'll add the forums 2 cents on your 10g with goldfish;
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f65/why-goldfish-need-least-20-gallon-39687.html
Although possibly not as easy as just getting a bigger tank I have to agree that for a gold fish to be well they need more than the average fish(which might sound funny since they are the average fish).
Your tank has a good amount of nitrAtes so I would think upgrading might relieve the ammonia issue.Possibly go up to a 30 and get him/her a friend?


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## CAM

Good results!

Give the 75 a couple more days.... see if the Nitrates build IP a little more. If they do and you stay 0/0 on ammonia and nitrites.... time to add a couple more fish.

The small tank.... I never kept goldfish but know they are huge poopers. Maybe that explains it. As long as it's always that low, don't get overly concerned. But I would keep testing daily to monitor the ammonia and do water changes as needed.


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## L.West

Thanks for the help coral bandit. I actually started this goldfish out in a goldfish bowl but quickly realized that was not going to work. I upgraded him to the 10 gallon with a ac20 filter that turns this tank over 10 times an hour. If I can't get the 10 gallon to work for him then I may trade him in and switch this tank to a small community tank. I don't have the space for a larger tank.


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## L.West

Cam, do I need to add more fish in order to progress my cycle. My intent is to only house an Oscar in this tank so I would hate to buy more fish I don't want. 

So what you are saying about the 10 gallon is that I can make it work but it will be a lot work with frequent water changes - correct.


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## CAM

You going to add him to the fish in there now? Or you rehoming them and keeping just the Oscar?

Bandit posted as I was typing. Take his advice on the goldfish. If you keep him in the 10... you will have to do very frequent water changes.


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## coralbandit

Ya! Unfortunately the common idea of a goldfish bowl rarely works out over time.You need to see him/her like your future oscar(a large waste creator).No harm in trading him in and doing a small community as you won't be able to keep"nice little"fish with oscar.
You have plenty of fish in 75 to cycle as even if they are small, mollies also create enough waste for cycling.


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## L.West

Once the tank is ready - I was going to take the fish back to a local lfs where I plan to get my Oscar. 

How long can the tank sit empty before it adversely affects my cycle??


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## coralbandit

Trade them the same day you get your oscar if possible,no more than a few(3-4) days,would be my recommendation.


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## L.West

I will trade in the smaller fish the same day I buy my Oscar. I just wanted to be sure it wasn't hours before my tank crashed.


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## CAM

Thanks, Bandit. I'm surprised the bacteria can live that long without an ammonia source.

When I change water, I make sure my media don't go more than 15 minutes out of tank water to make sure the bacteria don't die. Am I being overly cautious?


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## coralbandit

They won't live infinetley, but they may take as much as half or a qurter the time to grow them before they die.They are bacteria and not just going to go away that quickly.If it was more than a couple of days than adding food(how I used to fishless cycle{I'm feeling old}) would keep the bacteria alive and well fed!


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## L.West

The tank would be empty of fish but it would still be running along with filters so I assumed about 4 hours time would be okay.


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## coralbandit

Ya you're all good for anytime under a week IMO.


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## L.West

I had a thought....what I could do is move the fish that cycled my 75 gallon over to the 10 gallon and simply return my goldfish. That would solve all the problems of what to do with the fish. I really hate to part with my goldfish but it is becoming clear that a 10 gallon wont work long for a large goldfish.

To Cam; how much longer should I wait until I go buy my new Oscar. I plan to get a baby about 3-4 inches long

Thanks


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## CAM

I think your fish in the 75 right now would do fine in the 10. 

I'd wait just a while longer and keep testing. Let's see the Nitrates build up a little more before you put a big waste producer like an Oscar in there. If you get no Ammonia or Nitrites in the next few day and the Nitrites go up to the 20-40 range, I would be comfortable saying you are cycled and safe to get the Oscar.


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## MrG

What type of substrate are you using?

Perhaps that may be your reason, if nothing else. I've read while researching what substrate to use for my planted tank that some plant substrates will NOT come clean for people when they go to rinse it off before adding to the tank. Maybe something to keep in mind if nothing else is the culprit.


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## L.West

thanks. I will keep you posted on how things progress with my water params.

I will post results each night.

I believe I mentioned that the water is very clear again - I sure hope it doesn't cloud up again.


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## CAM

Clear water and no ammonia and nitrites. Looking good, just need to see those nitrates go up and you're in business!

Yep, post them each night. 

*pc


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## L.West

MrG said:


> What type of substrate are you using?
> 
> Perhaps that may be your reason, if nothing else. I've read while researching what substrate to use for my planted tank that some plant substrates will NOT come clean for people when they go to rinse it off before adding to the tank. Maybe something to keep in mind if nothing else is the culprit.


I am using gravel - I rinsed the gravel before adding it to my tank. The tank has since cleared up so I hope I am good to go.

Thanks for your input though.


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## L.West

Hi Cam, my water parameters on the 75 gallon tonight were ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 15-20 (this was hard to determine) looked darker than 10ppm but not quite 20ppm. 

When you read your colors do u place the vile right up against the white card or do you hold it up in the light.


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## CAM

So.... a little higher Nitrates than last evening. Good!!

Hold the vial against the card with the white area next to the color results as the background. Then hold the card and vial in some strong light.

Hang in there another day or two. It appears your tank is firmly cycled but to be safe, lets do another test or two.


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## coralbandit

Hold tube against the white part of card and in good light.Do it the same way every time and that will help take some of the variation out of reading.We all kind of think it is hard to tell the colors, but doing it the same way every time at least you know if it is darker or lighter than before.
And you're definately getting close with cycle.


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## coralbandit

Agree with CAM to test for another day or two but your tank does look good so NO waterchanges for the next day or two so the test can show true tank behavior.


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## L.West

Per the help from cam - I didn't plan on doing any water change until the test results warranted it. 

Thanks for all the help


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## L.West

Just tested my tanks water params again today May 3rd. 

The 10 gallon is registering Ammonia .50, Nitrites 0 and Nitrates 20 - time for yet another water change on this tank. 

The 75 gallon was Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0 and Nitrates 20. This tank seems to be doing good. 

Cam just to clarify - it is your opinion that because I have a 4" goldfish in this 10 gallon tank is the reason it never really cycled with still having ammonia readings continually creeping up - is this correct. 

Thanks.


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## CAM

Another good reading on the 75. I'd say it is safe to conclude it's cycled now. Odd your Oscar now, if you'd like.

Yes, as Bandit said, the goldfish produces too much waste for a 10 gallon. 

You should probably re-home the goldfish. Then put the fish currently helping to cycle the 75 in the 10. Then get your Oscar for the 75.


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## L.West

Thanks again for hanging in with me. I will update when I get my Oscar.


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## CAM

Glad to help!

Thanks... and don't together to post a pic.


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## L.West

I checked my water params again - all is good. I am going to go buy a heater for the 10 gallon in preparation for the small community fish that will go in there. As my luck would have it - the two stores that I would consider buying my fish from don't have any red oscars right now so it looks like it will be next weekend when I get it. In the meantime the danioes and mollies can continue to cycle the tank in the meantime

Will update with pics as soon as I get my new baby.


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## CAM

Won't hurt to let the big tank cycle a bit longer. Your Oscar will get a very stable environment.

Nice getting good test results every day, isn't it? Now you want to keep an eye on Nitrates and change water when the test is dark orange.


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## L.West

Once I get a nitrate reading that shows that I need to do a water change - how much should I do??


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## CAM

Whatever percentage if water you change, that is the percentage of nitrates you are removing. Example: you have 40ppm of Nitrates and do a 50% water change. You now have 20 ppm of Nitrates.

Once your tank becomes mature, about 4-6 months old, you won't need
to test veryoften. Do weekly water change of 30-50 percent, depending on the bioload. That will be enough to keep the Nitrates in check.

For now.... test daily and let the results dictate your water changes.


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## L.West

Once the tank is fully established then I shouldn't see any ammonia or ntrites - just nitrates correct.


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## CAM

That's right.


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## L.West

Hi Cam, I found a lfs that was willing to take the goldfish off my hands. I went there today and also found a red Oscar baby. I moved the Mollies to the 10 gallon but was not able to catch the 4 danioes. They won't cause at problem for my ocscar will they - I mean like stress him out?? I realize that eventually the Oscar will probably eat them. When I do another water change I will try to get them out again but they are soooo fast. 

Once he gets settled in I will post a picture. He is only about 2.5" long - just a little bugger - but oh so adorable. 

Let me know what you think about those pesky Danios. 

Thanks


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## CAM

I've had to catch a few Danios and they are pretty fast. Dud you read the recent thread on catching fish? Best bet is remove all the plants and decorations. Remove at least half the water. Then it should be much easier.

Glad you could re-home the goldfish and found your Oscar. I don't know much about Oscars so not sure if the Danios will stress him out. Just observe the tank closely the next few days and you'll know.

Now that you've swapped bioloads in both tanks, keep an eye on tour water quality. 

And you have a lot of bacteria in the 10 gallon but keep in mind that if you don't put those Danios in there relatively soon, you will lose all but the amount if bacteria needed to support the few fish in there. Then, when you add the Danios IR any other fish, you may go thru a mini cycle.


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## L.West

I moved the 5 mollies to the ten gallon already. I will try to get the danios tomorrow. I didn't think the tiny little danios would contribute much to the bio load. 

I stopped trying to get the danios because I had my Oscar in a bag from the fish store and needed to get him into the tank. Now that the Oscar is in there with the danios - I didn't want to stress my Oscar by chasing the danios all over the place. 

I will check my water params tomorrow night to make sure everything is stable.


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## CAM

You can wait a few days to let the Oscar settle in before trying again for the danios. And when you do, if you remove everything and remove a good amount of water, you shouldn't have to disturb the Oscar too much.

Keep posting your test results.


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## L.West

Thanks. I will keep you posted on my tank parameters for awhile. I hope to catch those little danios soon.

I here is poor quality picture of my tank and of my new baby oscar "Petey".





Let me know what you think.


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## CAM

Thanks for the pics ! Will be fun watching how fast and how big he grows !

I like the rocks and driftwood. Going to be putting any plants in there, artificial or real ?


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## L.West

Yes, I bought some 20" artificial plants but just haven't put them in yet. Waiting for the next water change so I can reach down to the bottom without drowning.

I got my seachem purigen you recommended but haven't taken down the filter yet to add it - but will soon.

I will update as things progress.


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## CAM

Yeah, I do all my plant cleaning while doing water changes, otherwise, I get wet up to my armpit and don't want my deodorant to infect the tank. The fish also all signed a petition asking me not to do that. 

You're going to love that Purigen. Make sure you either use their (Seachem) bag, simply called "The Bag" or a very fine mesh generic bag to hold the Purigen because the pellets are VERY small.


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## L.West

I bought the seachem bags when I bought the purigen. Since I don't plan to regenerate it - do you know how long it may last and how much do I put in my filter at one time. I bought the 500ml bottle.


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## CAM

They sell 100 ML bags which are meant to treat up to 100 Gallons. So I use about that much or a little less in my 75 gallon, about 1/3 of that in my 20 gallon. 

How long it will last will depend upon how much "junk" is in your water for it to remove. I'm getting about a month to six weeks out of mine. 

I agree with you. Not regenerating mine. I would rather spend the money on new Purigen than risk putting bleach in my tanks. I know many people have successfully regenerated Purigen but the risk just isn't worth it to me.


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## L.West

I'm using the Marineland C360 canister filter on this tank - I assume I would need to cover the entire bottom of the tray that I put this in in order to keep water from just bypassing - your thoughts. 

Is it your opinion that I should also put this in my AquaClear filters instead of the carbon??


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## CAM

I don't have a canister filter but sounds like the right approach as far as location and yes, you want to make sure water goes thru it and not around it. 

On the tank with HOBs, remove the carbon and use Purigen in it's place, yes.


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## L.West

Well, I caught two of the four danios. I dropped some food in and scooped them in the net when they werent looking. The other two got wise to me so I will try again tomorrow. My Oscar ate a little bit tonight but seems more comfortable with food that sinks down to him - he is still a little hesitant to come to the surface. 

I checked the 10 gallon tank params that the Goldie vacated - I was still showing ammonia so I did a 50 percent water change in hopes that the new bioload will be okay and not develop ammonia. 

The water params on my 75 were ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate looks to still be at 20.


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## CAM

Nice job catching those two! Very little stress on the new guy!

Great tests again in the 75.... good. The Oscar must not be producing much more bioload than the fish you removed.

The small tank should settle in pretty soon now that you took that Big Pooper out.


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## L.West

I removed about 8" of fish and the Oscar is really tiny - no more than 3". 

I will continue to monitor the tanks and post them

Thanks.


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## L.West

I checked the water params last night - well actually I only had time to check the ammonia levels. The 75 gallon was still at ammonia 0 so I assumed all was well with that tank.

The 10 gallon was still registering .25 ammonia so I did yet another 50% water change so I hope this tank is set now.

Wanted to mention - that my oscar is eating now - it took him a couple of days to come out of his shell but he is doing good and looks like he has already grown a bit.

I plan to do a water change on the 75 gallon this weekend and break down the canister filter to add the purigen - will update how that goes.


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## CAM

Thanks for the update. Appears both tanks doing well. Don't be too concerned about the 0.25 ppm ammonia. The API test can give a false reading for that trace amount and it's not toxic to the fish unless the tank has that much ammonia for a period of time. 

I bet the Oscar will grow a noticeable amount every week. My Roselines do that... ones I just added a couple weeks ago have grown at least a half inch in that time. Amazing how fast they grow.


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## L.West

Hi Cam, just an update. The 75 gallon is staying stable. My Oscar is eating good and already seems to have grown. 

The 10 gallon is still registering .25 ammonia - I just don't get this tank. It has given me problems from day one. The water has always looked crystal clear but it always has ammonia. I did another 50 percent water change tonight and added some more API Quick Start just because I had it on hand and didn't think it could hurt. 

What do you suggest I do with this tank. It's been up 2 months now and I've removed the messy goldfish - it now contains 5 mollies and 2 danios.


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## CAM

What are your current Nitrite and Nitrate readings?


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## L.West

I will check them again tonight after work. I have never gotten nitrite readings on this tank only ammonia the whole time.

Also, I am planning to do my first gravel vac/water change on my 75 gallon this weekend. Any words of advise on what NOT to do. I also plan to take the filter down for maintenance.

Thanks


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## CAM

After the first week to 10 dayss of fishless cycling and adding TSS, I never got any Nitrite readings either. 

As far as vacuuming and filter maintenance... I recommend vacuuming on a schedule and vacuuming about 1/3 of the substrate weekly (whether you do more water changes or not). 

When you clean the filters, before you start the water change, dip out a container of tank water. Place your sponge or other bio media in that tank water. Remove the filter and give it a good cleaning with warm water, no soap of course! Clean up the impeller and everything. Then place the filter back on the tank, give the bio media in your tank water a few good shakes to remove any visible debris (gently use your hand to wipe it if needed). Then after the tank is refilled, put the filter back together and plug it back in. Done.


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## L.West

Ok, here are my water params for tonight:

10 gallon - ammonia .25 (after a 50 percent water chg last night) , nitrite 0, nitrate 10. 

75 gallon - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20 (this has remained steady) possibly such a small fish in such a large tank - I don't know. 

Your thoughts??


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## CAM

75 gallon is still showing it's cycled. 

The 10 continues to show it needs more bacteria to keep up with the ammonia. Not sure why given you went from a goldfish to a few small fish. I can't tell you it will work with 100% certainty but if it were my tank, I would add two small doses of TSS 24 hours apart and see if that fixes the ammonia problem.

When my 20 went from 12 to 18 guppies, I had. 25 ammonia reading for two straight days. I dosed with TSS.... as I suggested above. No more ammonia.


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## L.West

When you say two small doses do u mean I should buy two bottles for a 10 gallon tank and put one bottle in and then the other 24 hours later


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## Raymond S.

For a ten gallon tank(there are two size bottles) half of the small bottle per dose is what I used when trying to get my ten up quickly so I could put a couple 
of guppies in it. Never had any problems but two guppies is not much ammonia per day for the bacteria to deal/w. Just that it was recommended that way
to me by my LFS(the good "mom and pop" one not a chain store).


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## CAM

Yes.... as Ray said, only about two ounces each dose, whether com the small bottle or big one, doesn't matter.

You can't overdose TSS. But it's expensive, no need to use more than that for the tiny bit of ammonia you have.


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## coralbandit

Let the 10 stand without any interference for 3-4 days.Your bio load is much lower than it was and it HAS to come around soon.It has no choice in whether to be cycled or not.You show reasonable nitrAtes and no nitrItes so I'm still sticking with false reading(being so low{.25 ppm}) on the ammonia /or eitherway that is a quater of what people using bacterial supplements would even think of changing water at.Do nothing for next three days then test(don't even bother testing unless you see signs of distress from fish{they have to be your barometer in fish in cycles}).


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## L.West

Things to watch for in the fish would be flashing against things, gasping at the surface?? Is this correct. 

When I initially set this tank up I put tsp in it and I've added API quick start with each water change. 

So it's your opinion that I don't add any more tss - correct.


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## CAM

Just for the record, I firmly believe there are two dependable brands of live aquarium bacteria. API isn't one of them.


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## L.West

Yes, I found that out after I spent 20 bucks on it. I have since used tss and sachem stability.


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## coralbandit

Yes,without signs of distress,gasping,flashing or isolation and motionless,I would let it ride for 3-4 days. .25 is one quater of what the most concerned cyclers would change water at(1-1.5 is where most do something).You do need ammonia to complete cycle,but since you have nitrAtes I will say you are well close to being complete.And again your bio load (all be it more fish in #) is lower now than when goldie was in there.Give it three days,give yourself three days(you've done so well with the 75).CAM has done very good with you and in cycling his own and honestly your 10 is a bit of a mystery at this point.Repeating the same motions will probly not bring about different outcome.Try something different,WAIT THREE DAYS.Just my thoughts as I've been following all along.
The two prefered (documented sucess ) bacterias are TSS and Dr. Tims One and Only.Seachem may not (in the bacteria field) be one of the better.


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## CAM

Never used Stability and haven't read much about it but Seachem does make good products.


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## L.West

Ok, I will let it be for 3 days but at that point I still see ammonia - is then that I should do another water change and then add a bacterial supplement??


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## CAM

Just post your test results after a few days.


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## L.West

I will post water params on the 10 gallon on monday night

Thanks guys for your help with all this


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## CAM

No worries! Enjoy helping and I know Bandit does too. Just look at his profile and how many times he's been thanked. Wow.

Anyway.... this is a very helpful community and glad to do my part.


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## L.West

Cam, do you know if I can use a nylon stocking in place of a media bag for the Purigen?? I bought the sachem bags but didn't realize only one bag was in the pack. No local stores sell them. Was just curious if that would be okay


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## CAM

You can. But I wouldn't. They can tear and if they do, you will have a HUGE mess on your hands.

I get fine mesh bags at Petsmart. Much cheaper and work just as well. Can't remember the brand name but when I get home tomorrow night, I will let you know.


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## L.West

Thanks. Glad I checked with ya. I may have to delay my tank maintenance until next Saturday. That should be fine because the 18th is actually the one month point. I was doing it early in order to get that chemipure carbon out and put the Purigen in. 

I was just at petsmart today too but never realized I needed any bags. 

Let me know the brand of bag to buy - that would be helpful. 

Thanks


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## L.West

Cam and CoralBandit, I checked my water params on the 10 gallon tank that you suggested I let be for a few days. 

Today's results are ammonia still .25, nitrite 0, nitrate 10

Please advise on what I should do next. 

Thanks.


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## coralbandit

It hasn't gone up any,and is still well below changing water levels.Ideally we both want no ammonia in your tank, but it seems to want to linger for some reason.
You've done well and I appreciate your patience.I would keep waiting.
Lets assume your tank is cycling(with nitrAtes?) you could(should )wait till ammonia is 1 ppm or over before changing water,so I'll say let it ride and keep testing.
It really seems your bacteria are out of order as the one that converts ammonia to nitrItes usaully occurs before and easier than the secondary bacteria that converts nitrItes to nitrAtes(usaully much slower to grow than previous one)?
I'd wait and change water when you get to 1 ppm ammonia or in a week or two for good measure(this would drive me crazy to have to wait on changing water but?).


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## CAM

That stubborn tank still showing .25 ?! 

I'd say you can either sit tight since the other readings are good and the ammonia level is so low.... or you can add some TSS and see if that finally rids the tank of the small amount of ammonia.


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## CAM

I could have saved myself Sony typing had I waited a minute and seen Bandit had it under control. 

Thanks, Tom.


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## L.West

Would the ammonia in the tank kill off the tss if I put it in??


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## CAM

No. Only ammonia levels of 1, maybe even 1.5 ppm, would be toxic to the bacteria in TSS. Water conditioners are also killers if TSS bacteria so if you do a water change down the road, wait 24 hours before adding any TSS.


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## L.West

Well I bought some just in case so maybe I will put it in. I don't think it can hurt anything. Does the bacteria go right into the filter to multiply or does it stay in the water column??

The reason I ask is that I don't want to waste the tss by putting it in and then having to do a water change in a couple of days and end up removing it all with the w/c.


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## CAM

No, it can't hurt anything to try it.

Doesn't matter if you pour it into the filter or the water column. The bacteria are going to find a surface to adhere to. Most will end up on your sponges and bio media in the filter no matter where you pour it. Feel free to do a water change a day, maybe two would be better, after you add the TSS.


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## L.West

I added half a bottle that said up to 30 gallons. My water looks a little hazy now but I assume that will clear out. 

When should I check the water params again??


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## CAM

What you are seeing is the food that keeps the bacteria alive in the bottle. OT will disappear inside of 15 minutes.

Be sure to screw the lid back on tightly and refrigerate the leftovers.

Wait about two days then test again.


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## L.West

It wasn't refrigerated when I bought it - your sure that won't kill the bacteria??


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## CAM

Now that you opened it, I would recommend it, and no, it won't kill the bacteria unless you have your refrigerator set on freeze mode.


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## L.West

Help.....I did my first water change and gravel vac and filter maintenance on the 75 gallon tank and I feel like I went backwards. I finally had this tank looking really clear and now the top portion of the water column seems a bit hazy again. 

I removed the carbon and put in two big bags (500ml) of Purigen in my c360 canister. The media trays are quite large on this filter and even two bags of the Purigen didn't cover the whole bottom of the tray. I also put a piece of polyfiber over the Purigen since there was plenty of room in the tray.

I just don't know why it is hazy again. I had hoped the Purigen would make it even more clear but I am seeing the opposite.


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## CAM

Don't panic.... you just stirred up some mulm while vacuuming. You'll get better at it as you do it more often. You will always leave some of that crap behind after vacuuming., just less as you get better. The filters will capture it. Give it time.

The purigen won't help with the mummy you stirred up. But give it 48 hours and you should notice a difference in water clarity. Of not.... you need to arrange it differently in your canister so water goes thru it and not around it.


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## L.West

When I had my tanks 5 years ago - I never once had hazy water. All my tanks were crystal clear from day one. I never had any issues after vacuuming either. 

The only thing I can think of is that I live in a different municipality so maybe it's the water?? Who knows. 

I vacuumed this tank on Sunday - would it still be hazy??

I ordered more Purigen to add to this filter. Maybe I can buy some locally this week and get more added. The darn trays are huge so I know the water is probably going around it more than pushing thru it..


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## CAM

Well, my 20 has been crystal clear since day one but before using Purigen, MT 75 had haziness issues. Have no idea why.

If you vacuumed days ago, then yes, the junk you stirred up should have settled by now. Your filter sponges are not all gunked up, are they?


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## L.West

No, when I broke down the canister I was surprised at how clean it was - it's so new that there wasn't much gunk at all. I still squeezed the sponges out in a bucket of tank water. 

With the amount of filtration I have on this tank - I am really disappointed that I am having water issues.


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## CAM

The fish care more about the quality of the water. The clarity.... more important to you than them. 

Give it time, the filters and the Purigen will clear it up.


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## L.West

Ok - thanks. It just gets frustrating constantly feeling like I need to tweak something.

I plan to check water params again tomorrow night on both tanks - I will post my findings.


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## CAM

I understand!

OK.... will be anxious to see what your 10 gallon is up to.


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## L.West

Just an update - the 75 gallon tank looked pretty good this morning - still not perfect but much better.

Will post water params later tonight.

Thanks


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## CAM

Good. I'm betting it will continue to improve over the next couple of days.


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## L.West

Tonight's water params: the 10 gallon is ammonia .25, nitrites 0, nitrates 20

The 75 gallon ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0-3 maybe (how did that happen) I checked it twice to make sure I didn't mess it up - same reading both times. I did a 50 percent water change with a gravel vac on only half the tank on Sunday, may 12th. This tank only had a nitrate reading of 20 before the water change though

Your thoughts on both tanks 

Thanks


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## coralbandit

OK; the ten is improving IMO.You are gaining nitrAtes yet your ammonia is stable.This to anyone cycling would be a sign of emminent victory.I don't understand your ammonia but .25 can really and easily be a flase reading(especially since it is not climbing).
The 75 dropped well down beyond what your waterchange should have done for it on the nitrAtes.This IMO is because you have lowered your bio load now only having your one oscar.It would appear you are feeding him correctly also or levels would not fall.
I will now say as your 75 dropped with the lowering of your bio load that your 10 will climb with it's"increased "bio load.I don't think your stock even comes close to what the goldfish did,but it was enough to have higher levels in your 75 than you do now.
SO,be patient wait a couple more days before changing water in 10.Don't let nitrAtes go over 40,but if you can wait science says that the 10 has to fall in line.Very possible that .25 is a false reading also.If it doesn't climb and nitrAtes do continue to then I would say your cycled and you can go about keeping your fish as you wish.


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## CAM

Geez... still. 25 ammonia in the 10? That is just bizarre. Not sure what else to do with that tank. Ammonia isn't toxic at that small level but I wouldn't want it in my tank constantly. You've been getting that same result for what seems like weeks.

On the 75..... what do you mean by Nitrates 0-3? You getting a color between 0 and 5?


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## CAM

Thanks for the reply, Bandit. You really think he could be getting a false Ammonia reading that many times in a row?


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## L.West

Yes the nitrates weren't quite zero but yet it wasn't at 5 either. 

Do you think I should add the rest of the tss to the 10 gallon - if so, when should I add it.

So, it sounds like the consensus is that my 75 gallon is fine and the 10 gallon is close to becoming stable - correct.

Thanks cam and coral bandit for sticking with me thru this


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## coralbandit

It stays constant.That alone is unusaull.Then the fact that it is the lowest reading possible?
I guess the test could be considered accurate since they are being used on 2 different tanks and giving different readings,but?
There is no miracle cure for ammonia(most products are bunk IMO) so waiting seems like it gives nature and science its chance.
I guess my only different recommedation would be to use PRIME for water changes as it converts ammonia,but it will still register on test and .25 although not ideal is far from dnager level.
Lorie,how do the fish in the ten look and act?Do they seem ok?


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## L.West

I do use prime for water changes. 

The fish seem fine - they are active and eating good. No obvious signs of stress


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## coralbandit

Wait a few more days.If nothing changes(mostly the ammonia),I would just carry on with the 10 like it is good and do waterchanges on your regular schedule.EVENTUALLY
it has get in line and you'll have 0 ammonia.When this happens seems to be the big question.It really should be reading 0 now with nitrAtes growing,but I'll repeat myself;"as soon as you think you can predict nature ,it will surely prove you wrong!"
I'm seeing your 10 like a defiant little child that will grow up,how and when I don't know, but it will!


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## L.West

I like to do water changes every weekend - so this Saturday I will do a water change on the 10 gallon and just not worry about it.


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## L.West

Just an update on my 10 gallon. The water params tonight were ammonia .25, nitrite 0, nitrates 40ppm. Due to the nitrate reading - I did a water change/vac. 

Thought you guys would like to know that I am still getting that ammonia reading - no matter what I do. Should i consider .25 ammonia my baseline.

Thanks


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## CAM

Follow Bandit's advice from upthread. Monitor the fish's behavior and appearance and as long as they are healthy, press on as normal with water changes to remove nitrates.

May go down as one of the great unsolved mysteries of the world!


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## L.West

Leave it to me to have the Great Mystery Tank!!! My other tank cycled normally and all my tanks in the past went well - I just don't get this little 10 gallon.

I will do as you guys suggested - thanks for all your help.


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## L.West

An update on my two tanks water params. The 10 gallon still has the .25 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 40ppm (what should I stay below on nitrates on a community tank)?? This tank has 5 mollies and 2 tiny danioes

The 75 gallon is still showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5ppm nitrates (why are these nitrates not raising - should I be concerned). my Oscar is now a good 4 inches

Thanks


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## coralbandit

You'd like your nitrAtes 20 or under. So change 50% and you be at 20.Then check again tomorrow.
The 75 has alot more water ,larger filtering and only 1 fish (even if he is a growing{quickly} boy)!


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## Raymond S.

You need larger or more water changes on the tank/w the mollies. Actually that tank is about 1/3rd the size a tank should be for them.
This is the main reason for the high nitrates. These fish get up to 3.3" for the male and 5" for the females in some cases. This site gives a 
lot of valuable info on these issues. Check the clic on which says "display only fish suitable for this size tank".
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor
I just returned from a weekend trip for another purpose during which I "colected" as well. I brought back a pair of Green mollies thinking I was going to
up-grade my tank size to accomodate them + others but found out that the lease states no tanks over 10 gal.
What to do/w them now ?...oh well...I accept that they would not be ok in a ten gallon.


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## L.West

Thanks CoralBandit. I will do water change and gravel vac on the 10 gallon tomorrow morning - is that soon enough to avoid issues??


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## coralbandit

Should be fine!Change a little more than 50% if that is it for the week.The amount you change is how much you will reduce the nutrient(NITRATE).So if you only change 50% to get you to 20ppm you could easily have 40 again by next week.


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## L.West

So as long as I do a large water change very week and don't let the nitrates go over 40ppm - then my fish should do fine??


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## coralbandit

You'd like to keep them around 20. 40 is not usually toxic but if something should happen it could climb higher very quickly.


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## L.West

Do you agree with the other poster saying they are too big for my tank. Each Mollie is no more than 2" each. If so, should I take some out to even things out if I can't get a larger tank for them??


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## coralbandit

They will outgrow a ten and are large waste producers for their size.I can't say how many you can keep but do check aqadvisor like raymond said.It will help explain filtering,waterchanges and stocking for your 10g.


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## Raymond S.

A bit about mollies: They are technically a brackish water fish. But because they typically inhabit the "edge" aria's of it, they can adapt to almost any water easily.
They live mostly(the Green "wild" ones) near the places where the fresh water comes into the brackish water, thus having to adapt to almost any percent of
salt content including hourly changes of same depending on water currents etc.
So fresh water is no big issue for them. But being open water type fish they tend to be slightly larger than most of what people refer to as "minnows".
When I go and sit in front of my tanks the fish will always swim back and forth across the front of the glass because they know it means food will soon
be there. But a few moments after they are swimming almost normal all around in there. When I first set up this tank I got a trio of marbled mollies.
I would watch them from the other room or across that room and except for eating they never stopped swimming up and down the front glass of that tank.
Reminded me of a wild animal pacing back and fourth across a cage. Like they were trying to find a way out.
Keep a top on your aquarium with those as the mating ritual of the male causes there to be water thrown from the tank(up onto a light that is not
protected).


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## L.West

I looked online to see Mollies and was shocked at all the different types. Mine are half yellow - half black, not sure of the exact name for them. Some have slender bodies but a couple of them have more rounded bellies/chest area. 

This is my first time keeping Moliies. Does anyone know from my description what kind of mollies I have. 

Thank you


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## coralbandit

Most livebearers(swords,guppies,platies and mollies) can be bred into almost unlimited colors,but that doesn't change their species.Mollies are for the most part mollies(with exception to wild,yucatan sailfin or common).Often mixed color livebearers will have multi colored fry and even some solid color going back to their original genes.I get like 5 different colors from my marigold female swords.They are all just swordtails though ,with possibly different names for the color only.


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