# First tank on thursday :)



## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello all,

My partner and i are getting our first tank on thursday, we know we will have to wait a week once we have set up and from the advice we have had from the store we think we are going to make it a tropical tank. our tank is 65 lieters so i am hoping it will be big enough.

What kind of fish are good to keep also are hermit crabs cool pets or just a pain?

Thanks in advance for any help i am given:fish10:


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

It isnt a matter of waiting a week to add fish. your new tank needs to complete the nitrogen cycle, read up on that, and to accomplish that you will need to have an ammonia source--fish poop, or adding straight ammonia. Look up fishless cycling to explain how to complete the cycle without harming the fish at all. Good luck!


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

Summer said:


> It isnt a matter of waiting a week to add fish. your new tank needs to complete the nitrogen cycle, read up on that, and to accomplish that you will need to have an ammonia source--fish poop, or adding straight ammonia. Look up fishless cycling to explain how to complete the cycle without harming the fish at all. Good luck!


The man at the store said everything we need to properly set up the tank comes with it, he spend ago 40 mins talking to me about it but i will get him to write everything down before i leave on thursday. 

He also said before he sells me any fish he needs to test my water.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I promise you, as much as these people pretend to know, in most cases they dont. The nitrogen cycle can take as much as 6 weeks to complete. If he tests your water prior to adding fish hes going to get readings of 0's for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and call it good. ITS NOT. The nitrogen cycle works as such: The ammonia source is present--fish poop or ammonia-- and the readings rise over several days (to fish, ammonia burns their gills. think about being in a closed room with a very dirty cat litter box) the bacteria colonize and eventually start to eat the ammonia away, this processes it into nitrite (also poisonious and potentially deadly to fish) and the same thing happens, the bacteria has to colonize and eat that away. This is often the longest part of the cycle. Once the bacteria starts to consume the nitrites it processes into nitrates which are less harmful to fish ( and good for plants) but can still be harmful inlarge amounts. Ideally you dont want much more than 20 ppm. I really suggest prior to walking in that store ready for fish you arm yourself with knowledge about all of this, because chances are that man knows little more than what he told you, which is already wrong.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

try a "beaslbob build" in the link in my signature.

Best tank ever.

my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

65 liters ~= 17 gallons, which is a decent size for a small tropical tank. Once your tank has an established nitrogen cycle (as Summer stated, read up on it: The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle), I would recommend a school of neon tetras, a single dwarf gourami (like a sunset gourami), and maybe a school of otocyclus catfish or a school of corydoras catfish as bottom feeders (DO NOT get a plecostimus - they get WAY too big for that size of tank).

Hermit crabs are great but they are not aquatic, and their habitats can get stinky.

Also, a word of advice - don't trust store clerks very much. Half the time they are going on incomplete or flat-out incorrect info, and many are interested in making a sale instead of actually helping you out. I would encourage you to seek your own research, our opinions, and the store clerk's opinions, and make your own educated decisions based on what you've heard from multiple sources.

Lastly, you might want to look into some tap water conditioner (to remove chlorine and chloramine), and a water testing kit that tests ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, so you can check the levels and track your tank's nitrogen cycle establishment. I use the API Master Freshwater Test Kit and love it to death.

Hope this helps! And welcome to the hobby


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

Thank you all for your help, so what would be the best way to set up my tank? litraly from start to when i put my first fish in, does anyone have a link?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Option 1: Traditional cycle
Step 1: Set up tank. Light, filter, heater, all into a power strip (preferably with a surge protector/GFCI), with a timer for the light.
Step 2: Add source of ammonia. Be it fish, a raw piece of seafood, daily doses of flake food or daily doses of 100% pure ammonia.
Step 3: Let the tank sit for 1-2 weeks, then test the water. If you see no traces of ammonia or nitrite, and some nitrate (between 20-80 ppm or mg/L), do a few 50% water changes to lower the nitrates and you are ready to add fish.

Option 2: Silent cycle
Step 1: Same as step 1 above.
Step 2: Add LOTS of plants. We planted tank enthusiasts love this method 
Step 3: Add fish (you can do so right away - the plants will handle the ammonia and nitrite spikes you would otherwise see).

When adding fish, be sure to drip acclimate them (there's a sticky post somewhere on this forum about drip acclimation), and only add 2-3 fish per week, so as not to "shock" the system and cause ammonia and nitrite spikes.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mayhemzz22 said:


> Thank you all for your help, so what would be the best way to set up my tank? litraly from start to when i put my first fish in, *does anyone have a link*?




there's one in my signature*old dude

Still only worth .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hopefully your plants won't like those in the "best tank ever".


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

Thank you everyone, think i will try with lots of plans and leave my tank untill it is 100% safe for fish. 

Still have no idea what fish im going to have, i was thinking crayfish but my gf said no lol


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

another really dumb question but tropical tank is a marine not fresh water tank right?

BTW im not going to rush and put fish in till im 100% sure of what i am doing.


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## Russell (Jun 20, 2011)

I think that tropical usually refers to a heated freshwater aquarium.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

This will sound so last century - but you need to go to a bookshop or library and get a good, inexpensive general aquarium book, and read it. The internet is good for snippets of info if you know the questions, but for an absolute beginner, there's no substitute for giving yourself a grounding in the hobby. It'll double your enjoyment and save you lots of money...


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

There is a book shop next to my office i will pop there and get one, thanks for all the advice guys


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

ok well i had to go 2 3 diffrent shops but i managed to buy a complete guide to setting up an aquarium or pond for £16.99 time to get my reading glasses on


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mayhemzz22 said:


> The man at the store said everything we need to properly set up the tank comes with it, he spend ago 40 mins talking to me about it but* i will get him to write everything down before i leave on *thursday.
> 
> He also said before he sells me any fish he needs to test my water.



No need to write all that stuff down. We have plenty of threads here on how to start tanks.


My favorite of course it the "beaslbob build" thread of mine that is in me signature below.


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## FishesRDelicious (May 18, 2011)

Also, go ahead and spend the $25 on the master test kit. Do NOT get the test strips. They're fast and cheap, but wildly inaccurate. (And in my opinion, the master kit is more fun to use, but that may just be the science nerd talking.  )


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

so im going to pick up my tank today its 65L for £80 it comes with the chemicals i need to make the water safe a filter and a heater. i will have a look round other tanks and if i can get a bigger one for around £100 i will get that. Is 65L big enough for a first tank?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> No need to write all that stuff down. We have plenty of threads here on how to start tanks.
> 
> 
> My favorite of course it the "beaslbob build" thread of mine that is in me signature below.


Mentioned 3 times in the same thread that has less than 25 replies? Really? Are you really that retarded or just assume the OP can't read the first time you said it? I think he gets that there is a link in your signature by now.

Or maybe, he has seen all the glorious pics in your profile of how great your tanks and plants look and have decided against it. Stagnet water evidentally isn't good for plant health from what can be seen.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

mayhemzz22 said:


> so im going to pick up my tank today its 65L for £80 it comes with the chemicals i need to make the water safe a filter and a heater. i will have a look round other tanks and if i can get a bigger one for around £100 i will get that. Is 65L big enough for a first tank?


Personally, I would go as big as you can handle space and cost-wise. Larger tanks are much easier to keep and they remain much more stable.


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## mayhemzz22 (Feb 27, 2012)

so my tank is set up, water treated im adding the bacteria every day for the first 7 days so i can get a healthy amount in there. washed everything before adding to the tank. the bottom layer is sand, spent 30 mins washing it. set it all up put plants in.

When i first put the water in it was abit murky so set the filter and the thermostat up and left it running while i went to bed.

got up the next morning and the water is crystal clear, the tank should be ready for life on wednesday but i am going to wait untill saturday before i get any fish. still have no idea what type i want to get tho.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

mayhemzz22 said:


> so my tank is set up, water treated im adding the bacteria every day for the first 7 days so i can get a healthy amount in there. washed everything before adding to the tank. the bottom layer is sand, spent 30 mins washing it. set it all up put plants in.
> 
> When i first put the water in it was abit murky so set the filter and the thermostat up and left it running while i went to bed.
> 
> got up the next morning and the water is crystal clear, the tank should be ready for life on wednesday but i am going to wait untill saturday before i get any fish. still have no idea what type i want to get tho.


Just a silly question... what are you feeding the bacteria? I've not used these bottles before but usually, the bacteria needs ammonia and nitrite to feed on and multiply to the levels that you need to buffer the fish ammonia production. (search for fishless cycle). I don't know what's in your magic bottle but adding ammonia, feeding the bacteria should help you establish sufficient bacteria colonies for later.

I read somewhere (must be true) that those bottles are not to be trusted. Unless you test positive at 2 different readings for nitrates without a water change in-between - or adding further magic bottles, your tank is not cycled. I mention 2 readings because your bottle is probably adding nitrate as well. so test 2 hours after and just before you add anything to the water.You should get different readings.

As an aside, bacteria has a doubling time when introduced into an environment where initial growth is unimpeded. Let's say for a set of conditions the doubling rate of bacteria is 6 hours and you put 1 tsp and 4 tsp in 2 identical tanks... if the 4 tsp tank reaches the limit of bacterial growth after 7 days, the 1 tsp tank will hit the same level after 8 days. 

They'd never tell you that in a shop!
cb


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

mayhemzz22 said:


> water treated im adding the bacteria every day for the first 7 days so i can get a healthy amount in there


Sadly, your tank will not be ready I don't think. Adding bacteria without adding a food source for said bacteria, as was just mentioned, only results in a tank full of dead bacteria. You can add fish if you'd like to take a gable, but I would strongly advise that you start the process over and this time dose some pure ammonia AND the bacteria, instead of just the bacteria.

As to the questions about the bacteria supplements being a good or bad thing - I have heard that there are two types of aerobic nitrifying bacteria; heterotrophic (like the bacteria contained in the supplements), and autotrophic (the bacteria that naturally colonizes your tank and will eventually take over as the heterotrophs die off). So yes, bacteria supplements do work, but they are not the permanent end-all tank starter. Even with a healthy population of heterotrophs in the tank, the ammonia and nitrite levels might still fluctuate as the heterotrophs die off and the autotrophs take over.

Just my thoughts...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> As to the questions about the bacteria supplements being a good or bad thing - I have heard that there are two types of aerobic nitrifying bacteria; heterotrophic (like the bacteria contained in the supplements), and autotrophic (the bacteria that naturally colonizes your tank and will eventually take over as the heterotrophs die off). So yes, bacteria supplements do work, but they are not the permanent end-all tank starter. Even with a healthy population of heterotrophs in the tank, the ammonia and nitrite levels might still fluctuate as the heterotrophs die off and the autotrophs take over.
> 
> Just my thoughts...


Seriously? Why can't you just say you need to grow the beneficial bacteria like the rest of us? *r2 You engineers have this undying need to sound technical no matter what you're talking about, lol.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Seriously? Why can't you just say you need to grow the beneficial bacteria like the rest of us? *r2 You engineers have this undying need to sound technical no matter what you're talking about, lol.


Hmm... We're all different. There are different ways of learning that suit different people. 1" per gallon may be a rule of thumb but that doesn't satisfy me one little bit when I know that metabolism in fish is temperature dependent. 
I need to know things like whether this is bio-load limited whereby adding an external sump with 4x the filtration and media would prevent overcrowding - or swimming area - whereby adding fish like algae eaters and corys wouldn't impact much on the swimming area. 

That's where a deeper understanding (that I don't necessarily have) helps.

Back to the original question though... what Gizmo is trying to say is that the bacteria in the bottle is more like a stop-gap solution that will prevent the tank from spiking while beneficial bacteria build up. Unfortunately it's unreliable given the huge variety of conditions that tanks operate under.

I may as well point out that for the fishless cycle, you may as well use straight untreated tapwater - unless you're adding a beneficial external bacterial source. Within 24 hours, chlorine levels would have dropped sufficiently.

cb

cb


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## z1200 (Jan 26, 2012)

I had my 10 gal. Set up for about 6 weeks before adding fish. If you put some nice plants in there it will give you something to look at, and if you get them online there is waiting for them to arrive anyways.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

z1200 said:


> I had my 10 gal. Set up for about 6 weeks before adding fish. If you put some nice plants in there it will give you something to look at, and if you get them online there is waiting for them to arrive anyways.


But....your nitrogen cycle did not start until there was an ammonia source added. Fish are usually that source or you can dose straight ammonia. In other words, it does no good to let you tank sit more than 1 day (after temp has leveled out). Not sure why you let it sit that long.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Seriously? Why can't you just say you need to grow the beneficial bacteria like the rest of us? *r2 *You engineers *have this undying need to sound technical no matter what you're talking about, lol.


Geee

I resemble that remark. *r2

It's even worse with rocket scientists.

Besides I haven't driven a train in years.


my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

clep.berry said:


> I may as well point out that for the fishless cycle, you may as well use straight untreated tapwater - unless you're adding a beneficial external bacterial source. Within 24 hours, chlorine levels would have dropped sufficiently.


This would suffice if chlorine was the only thing to contend with. However, many municipal water sources use chloramine as well, which will not gas out of the water like chlorine does.

And sorry for being overly technical, I'm just pointing out the nature behind the forces that govern the aquatic world.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Gizmo said:


> This would suffice if chlorine was the only thing to contend with. However, many municipal water sources use chloramine as well, which will not gas out of the water like chlorine does.
> 
> And sorry for being overly technical, I'm just pointing out the nature behind the forces that govern the aquatic world.


Well just to get really really technical my tap water does have chloramine.

and I top off with that untreated tap water constantly. With no signs of stress to fish. and did for 9 years in one tank.

Still just my .02


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