# New 190 planted FW tank build



## zwanged

*New 180 planted FW tank build*

In the next few months, I am planning on upgrading from my 75 gallon to a bigger tank. My plan is to move my existing freshwater setup from my 75 gallon to this larger tank and then start learning how to do SW on the 75 gallon tank which is already reef-ready.

For this new tank, I want to go pretty big but not so big that it completely overpowers the room. Unfortunately, the wall where I want to put this tank -- in the breakfast room -- is only 9 feet wide. I think a 6 foot tank may be too big so I am compromising by going with a 5 foot tank with extra height and depth.

Here is a schematic of the tank proportions to the wall. Yes, the ceiling does slope upward. I, and more importantly, my wife, think that 5 foot is about the proper width. If we did 6 foot, then there would only be 18" on eiher side of the tank.



Not many options for 5 foot tanks out there. MarineLand's Deep Dimension tank -- at 36" deep, is TOO deep for me. However, it turns out Deep Sea Aquatics (DSA) makes an interesting 190 gallon tank that is 5 feet long. 

Here is a link to the DSA Model 190:
Model 190 - Deep Sea Standard - Aquariums

I know this tank -- when filled -- will weigh a LOT (Probably 2500 pounds!) so I am planning to get the floor reinforced underneath where the tank will go. I don't want my kitchen tile cracking / kitchen floor sagging! 

Decisions I still need to make -- and would appreciate your input on:

(1) Should I get the built-in overflows and use a wet/dry sump like I do in my 75? What size sump do you think I can fit under this tank? If not, I was planning to use a Fluval FX-5 (or two). Or should I do BOTH?

(2) Should I do CO2 injection on this tank? Will it work worse in a sump setup?

(3) And the obvious: Is it a bad idea to go with an aquarium with non-standard dimensions? Am I digging myself into a pit of eternal doom? Should I be going with standard 6ft aquariums instead (like 72x24x24?)

(4) Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Nice!I'm obviously going to be biased,and honest.
1.I'd go overflow(never buying a tank without again unless it's for breeding/fry).
2.I'd like co2 myself(I'm without ).Your sump performance question is a good one that I don't know,but would guess the sump does Not help retain co2.
3.Accessories(mostly lights) are not that common.Although similiar to your 75 I really like my 120(48x24x24) .If you could sway her the 72 inch is really the most room as most fish prefer legnth over height or depth for swimming.
Just for knowing ahead of time measure from your armpit to your fingertips?27inches deep could have you literally going head first to place things!Rolling up my sleeves for the 120(24 inches deep)still leaves my T shirt wet!And don't forget (this seems inevitable and I have accepted)the step ladder.
Hope someone knows more on the co2/sump deal I'd like to know more also.
Good deal planning it always makes things work out better.


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## zwanged

I found a 60" lighting strip that looks like it might work.

AquaticLife T5 HO 4x54W Lighting Fixture 

AquaticLife T5 HO 4-Lamp Light Fixtures w/ Lunar LEDs

Thoughts? I figured since the dual 54W T5 fixture on my 75gal is borderline medium/high light that quad T5's would be necessary for a larger (and DEEPER) tank. Any idea if AquaticLife's products are any good, and any alternatives you can think of? I thought about the MarineLand LED lighting but reviews on it don't seem so great. My impression is that many products with LEDs have a very high up-front cost and reliability not so great as you might expect.

I'll draw out some 6 foot tank options and see how it looks. 

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

seems like a good light .Only the ballast can go bad and they are replaceable through other manufacturers.Stay away from the marineland lights ,they're really not worthy of planted tank,I have one on my 40 breeder with the swords that does grow anacharis and hornwort but I think it really struggles and does not light even this shallow tank well.I.m on the fence about my current true lumen pros for fresh water.They're great on my salts but seem to grow algae on my plants in my 180,I just went down to two 4' strips and added a 2x54wt5ho.No where near as bright as when I had 3 or 4 4' strips(true lumens) ,but my plants seem a little happier.2 4' strips and transformer are about same price as the aquatic life from marine depot but you would have to run both always without a second transformer(+$45).
I found your aquatic life a little cheaper also;
http://manufactza.com/aquatic-life-light-t5-ho-4-lamp-4-lunar-aquarium-light-60-inch/


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## zwanged

I made a schematic comparing various tank sizes to the wall size. Thoughts? Does 6 foot look too wide? I need to convince the wife...




-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Just for giggles and your wife I measured the distance from the sides of my tank and the windows on each side.I got 18 inches on each side meaning the space between windows is 9 feet.I think you know where I'm going?Let her decide if it looks to tight.


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## coralbandit

I figured(the art of pursation is not one of instant results) that I'd throw in that I'll bet when you got your 75 you thought it to be a "fairly" large tank.Not that it's not,they are significant,but don't short change yourself on upgrading and end up like "some of these crazy people" with hundreds of gallons(if you know what I mean).If I had access to a 7' tank at the time of aquiring my 180 in replacement of my old 135 I feel confident,besides already having my stand and hood that I would have gone all the way.The only options I saw were a 220(just taller) and a 300(8 feet long). So in closing,I usaully do as you do and mach things up,I use masking tape often to outline on the floor what I'm thinking.When my son was in cub scouts one project was to draw a scale version of room and make paper cut outs of furniture,bed,ect. and see how many different layouts you could have.I thought that to be a great trick and still to this day do such when building furniture or moving things around.It's alot easier than moving stuff that doesn't fit by inches.Although the gallon count on the 5 footer is 2 1/2 times the 75 it is only 1 foot longer.And speaking for the fish,they will appreciate the length much more than heigth.Hope I'm helping?


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## zwanged

the 75 was inherited from my dad. it was the biggest tank he had so I had always considered it pretty big. 

ill try taping the floor and making cardboard models of the tanks to try to get a sense of scale. even if it overpowers the room Im thinking that it is dead space anyways... and I'm going to reinforce the floor regardless.

am I crazy for considering putting in an emergency drain in the floor as insurance/damage mitigation against the tank failing and flooding my kitchen and living room??


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## coralbandit

I wouldn't install a drain with the thought of disaster prep.But I would install one if possible for maintenance,i.e.water changes going right out without buckets.That gets you halfway automated.A endless drain with a pump in your sump going to it and rubbermaid garbage can on dolly allows you to have water prepped.I heat and dechlorinate mine,and with the use of a pump,I pump new in and old out.It's semi automated,and allows me to change 32 gallons in 3 minutes.It takes longer to refill rubbermaid with water from first tap in my house on municipal pressure.Since all this goes on in basement no one watching the tank could ever even notice the water being changed.Using a ball valve on my fill pump I perfectly match water in and out so the tank water level(and filter) is never effected.If you really would/could place a hole in floor for drain then you might as well move the whole filter to basement and use space in stand for kitchen/household storage.I drilled a 4 inch hole inside stand to basement which allows 2 drains,returns(1 that is "T"d in stand) and at one time electric feeds so ballst for MH light could be downstairs also.Filter and accessories in basement = NO NOISE,besides water movement.I also can spill water... downstairs without concern of my living room floor.I absolutely do not regret drilling hole through my floor.If I sell my house the tank goes with it and I'll get all new( a lot easier than moving it).


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## rtmaston

I know you will really enjoy it.my biggest is a 55 gallon I bought back in 1996 a odell tank.both of my tanks are odell tanks and never had any leaks in the 2 tanks.i would buy another if thay still made the tanks.does anyone here have a odell tank?.let me know how you love yours.


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## zwanged

Hi,

I taped out the footprint for the following 2 tanks:

DSA 190 gallon (tank size: 60Wx27Dx27H), specs here:
190 Gallon 60.5 x 27.5 x 27.5 Glass Aquarium,Glass Aquarium,190 gallon,190 gallon aquarium,190 gallon tank,glass fish tank,fish tank,marine aquarium,reef tank,overflow,overflow aquarium,DSA Aquarium

DSA 200 gallon (tank dimensions: 72Wx24Dx27H), specs here:
200 Gallon 72.5 x 24.5 x 27.5 Glass Aquarium,Glass Aquarium,200 gallon,200 gallon aquarium,200 gallon tank,glass fish tank,fish tank,marine aquarium,reef tank,overflow,overflow aquarium,DSA Aquarium

view from right side of room


view from left side of room


Thoughts? Is it going to be a pain having only 18" on the side with the 5 foot tank? My questions are: how important is viewing/accessing the tank from the side -- and is the tank too big for the wall? Am I biting off more than I can chew here?

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Turns out I have to abandon my quest for DSA tanks. apparently they wont' drop ship any tanks bigger than 4ft to my LFS, unless i want to pay a prohibitively high fee for shipping charges.

So that leaves me with 2 choices: 

Marineland 180gal (72W x 24D x 24H) w/ Monterey Stand + canopy and Marineland 220 (tank dimensions 72Wx24Dx30H) with Monterey Stand + canopy.

Any recommendations on what to go with? My wife seems to like the extra high one more but I am very wary of working in such a tall tank.

Recommendations? I think i will try to convince her to go with the 180...6 foot width is a tough sell as it is...may have to compromise.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

zwanged said:


> Hi,
> 
> I taped out the footprint for the following 2 tanks:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts? Is it going to be a pain having only 18" on the side with the 5 foot tank? My questions are: how important is viewing/accessing the tank from the side -- and is the tank too big for the wall? Am I biting off more than I can chew here?
> 
> -Zeke


Although I thoroughly enjoy my tank,I rarely view from the sides.Sometimes to look for something specific(fry,hiding fish...),but it doesn't give a better veiw of much of anything.
I think the tank will look fantastic on that wall.
On the 180/220 I would try for the 180 as easier better lighting,less volume(and I love big tanks)which is less water during changes;33% of 75g=25g,33% of 180g=60g, and 33% of 220g is 73g.The beauty and benifit of large tanks is completely lost when it's time to change water.
30 inches is pretty deep,did you measure your arm yet?


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## zwanged

27" from my armpit to fingertips. So 30" is going to be hard!

I'm leaning toward 180 as well. What size sump should I put on this tank (if i put the sump in the basement?0

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Although I thoroughly enjoy my tank,I rarely view from the sides.Sometimes to look for something specific(fry,hiding fish...),but it doesn't give a better veiw of much of anything.
> I think the tank will look fantastic on that wall.
> On the 180/220 I would try for the 180 as easier better lighting,less volume(and I love big tanks)which is less water during changes;33% of 75g=25g,33% of 180g=60g, and 33% of 220g is 73g.The beauty and benifit of large tanks is completely lost when it's time to change water.
> 30 inches is pretty deep,did you measure your arm yet?


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## zwanged

27" from my armpit to fingertips. So 30" is going to be hard!

I'm leaning toward 180 as well. What size sump should I put on this tank (if i put the sump in the basement? I'm thinking 90-100 gallon?

Thanks,
-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Although I thoroughly enjoy my tank,I rarely view from the sides.Sometimes to look for something specific(fry,hiding fish...),but it doesn't give a better veiw of much of anything.
> I think the tank will look fantastic on that wall.
> On the 180/220 I would try for the 180 as easier better lighting,less volume(and I love big tanks)which is less water during changes;33% of 75g=25g,33% of 180g=60g, and 33% of 220g is 73g.The beauty and benifit of large tanks is completely lost when it's time to change water.
> 30 inches is pretty deep,did you measure your arm yet?


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## coralbandit

The more water you can have in your sump the better.My sumps are multiple water vessels linked in series with 2" pvc.There not fool proof so I keep a large power head in last area with hose to pump back to previous chambers creating enough pressure to blow any bubbles through pipe.I have never lost syphon in any but once a month I turn pump on if I see different levels of water in chambers.
Any aquarium 30g or larger would be excellent.
My next sump build I think will have a "turtle tank"(one end has glass only 1/2 way up) inside a larger tank.Probably a 20g turtle and a 30g breeder.
I like drawers with drip plates to hold mechanical material usaully with space directly below for bio media(if I use any).
The sump for my 180 holds about 30 gallons of water so I could remove10-15g without shutting it down.
When I build next sump(very soon) I will post a thread of the simple build.
I may just drill or remove and cut the glass on a regular 20 as the turtle tank can be 3x the cost of a 20g.Glass drill bits are pretty cheap($20) at BRS,so I'm planning it out.
In your basement you could probably have a sump as big as you could afford.Next petco $per gallon sale should be soon(month or so I think) and you could get a 55 for $55!


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## zwanged

My wife isn't keen on drilling our kitchen tile for overflow plumbing -- as we sadly have no replacement tiles when we got this house :-( But that would be the best way to bring the plumbing into the basement...straight shot downward. -- fewer pipe bends would be best. I tried to convince her that the hole could always be covered up with a floor vent cover but she is not yet convinced.

I think i may end up going without an overflow design. It would prohibitively expensive to do saltwater on that tank later down the road anyway so having the overflow design, while nice is not necessary. 

If I go without overflows, I guess would probably do two FX5's --

Anyway, I have plenty of time to think this over...

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Pull a tile out and only drill through the sub floor!


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## zwanged

Thanks for the advice.

Sorry, I must sound like an idiot. I do not have much experience with construction. 

Here is a picture of the room with the tank footprint taped to the floor. The top of where the canopy will approximately be is marked on the wall.




The full tiles are pretty decent size and i would have a pretty large hole in the floor. This is further complicated by the fact that they run DIAGONAL relative to the wall instead of parallel However I can probably remove one of those small triangular tile fragments. See pictures below.







Based on what I read online, it looks the predrilled marineland tank will have two 1" returns and two 1" intakes.

I think with dual overflows i'll have to remove 2 of these smaller tile fragments, one on the left, one on the right, and the trim to make it work. I would also have to remove the cement board (hardibacker) underneath and then drill through the subfloor. 

If my calculation is right, the area that I could drill through would be one right triangle with a hypotenuse of 7" (legs of 5"). This would not fit four PVC schedule 40 pipes. Instead of having to remove two tile pieces, perhaps it's just simpler to remove a single small triangular piece of tile and join the plumbing for the 2 overflow returns and 2 intakes into two single 1.5" PVC pipes? Any drawbacks to doing this? I'm not so concerned about the intake to the sump but was wondering if the RETURN flow might be asymmetric? Not an expert on plumbing...perhaps this will be a non-issue as the flow rate will have to be pretty darn powerful. Or maybe keep the returns separate and join the intakes? 

UPDATE: it seems like 4 1" PVC pipes will barely fit on a triangular footprint, so perhaps one 1.5" pipe for the intake and two return lines is ideal? That option also is pretty tight. I drew both scenarios out.



Is it worth using flexible PVC for this or is standard schedule 40 PVC better? I think if i go straight through the floor it'll hopefully be a relatively straight shot into the basement sump. I'm trying to avoid elbows if possible at least for the return pump as it already will have so much head pressure already, so perhaps the flexible PVC would be ideal?

Also, would you recommend the mag 18 pump or is there something else out there, reasonably priced, that would do a better job? It's going to need to be pretty darn powerful.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

OK either way (little triangle tile, or full one) you need a grout saw.They are a small hand held tool available at home depot or lowes for like $5.It's a diamond tipped blade the size of a razor blade that grinds the grout out.Then you have to carefully pry tile(not from just one side all at once,but little by little on all sides)trying to release it from the cement(adhesive ) under it.Possibly a handy man(or floor guy) could be hired to remove one of the full ones.They can crack and nobody wants that.I'll check if there are any products to help(adhesive solvents).
I return my water through 1 1" pvc "T"d under my tank in stand.I have seperate drains using white "sump pump "hose.It fits the drains from tank and is extremely flexible.The black hose usually can't be cut at whatever length whereas the white has cutting points at every foot(makes a big difference in getting water tight connections).I run a mag24 for my 180(most affordable at Kensfish.com) and it does a good job,but I do run it all out with no ball valve to control flow as it is not needed.Besides head pressure reducing flow all calculations(at least for mags)are figured with larger than 1" pipe(check your 9.5 box if you still have it).My lfs was $100 more the mag24 than kens fish.
I would check into a floor guy to remove one of the full tiles and see what they charge.You can(should) just drill with a hole saw right through the hardi board and floor.Save the cut out circles ,with your tile and then they can be put back in with a board under(in basement) to hold them in place and drop tile right back in.
2 drains 1 return "T"d is really all that is necessary,maybe that helps things fit better.I used a 4" hole saw and everything fits well maybe a 3" would fit everything for you?Draw the largest circle that fits in your triangle and that's the size hole saw you want.Hole saws are big round saws on a drill bit used with a drill(like for door knobs).
I hope I'm helping,ask what you need and if no hole happens you can still fit pretty big sump under a 2' wide tank.I just picked up a 10g "turtle tank" for $30 so I'll be starting a "simple diy sump" thread very soon.


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## zwanged

That's about what I was planning to do. 

I think first I will see if it's feasible with a single triangle tile, if not I will get a flooring guy or handyman to remove the full tile.

Also, how much space would you leave between the back of the aquarium and the wall? I was thinking 6 inches or so? 

The info on the 'sump pump hose' is very useful, thanks..., I will look into that.

As far as the actual sump in the basement goes, I was thinking about going with a 75 gallon aquarium for the sump (will see if I can find one on sale). Before I get that I will build a stand for it out of 2x4s and plywood. I will also work on reinforcing the kitchen floor from the basement.

Details to follow.

I'm going to take my time planning this and try not to screw up.


-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Honestly as long as the sides of stand(and aquarium) have good support what's in the middle doesn't much matter.Even on my 180 I only have support on sides.No bracing in middle front or back so how the stand is(bridging over small gap) doesn't matter.When it comes time(and you're right to take all the time necessary to get it right,as corrections wll take longer or be impossible)I used the underlayment for floating floors(like pergo,or armstrong) under my stand to cushion it a little an keep from moisture build up in stand.It's a very thin foam and plastic type cushion less than 1/8 inch thick.Lowes or HD carry it in rolls for like $30 I think.If you end up pulling full tile in middle of stand that will have no effect on support.And a 75 would be great for sump,lots of room for heaters,chemicals,and what not.


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## zwanged

Update: 

Today I went to my local LFS and purchased a 75 gallon Deep Blue tank for only $117. I thought that was a pretty good price for a brand new tank. Maybe they aren't kidding when they say they sell their tanks at-cost...I plan to use this for the basement sump for my new 180 which I will get later this year.

I also started to build a stand for this 75 gallon. I have essentially zero carpentry experience so don't laugh please 

I based the design off a youtube video I found: How To: Build a 75/90 Gallon Aquarium Stand - YouTube

The tank's base is roughly 48.5" wide and 18.25" deep, so I just decided to modify the size of the stand slightly so that the length was 49.5" (not 48") and the depth was 19.5" (not 18"). The drawback to this design is that i had to buy a 4x8 piece of plywood , being just over 48" is somewhat inconvenient.

My materials:

2x4 douglas fir-- I got like 8 eight-footers -- , cut as follows:

49.5" - 4 pieces -- used for the base of the stand and the top of the stand.
16.5" - 12 pieces - used for the base and top of the stand and the cross-reinforcement of the top of the stand.
28" - 4 pieces -- the long leg for each corner
21" -- 8 pieces -- additional legs for each corner. 

2 pounds of 3" decking screws

I used this project as an excuse to buy a circular saw...I am ashamed to admit I did not have one!

I made pretty good progress today. Everything is cut and I'm starting to join everything together. I predrilled pilot holes and used decking screws. They seem to be very sturdy.

top of stand (no plywood attached yet):


base:


base with 3 legs: (disregard the one leg that's off by 90 degrees in the back  Nothing has been screwed in yet in this picture, just laying things out.


latest picture -- Note I have to add on the 2nd and 3rd legs to each corner -- i also need to attach the main leg to the base and top -- right now it's just wedged in there.



I'll post more pictures tomorrow. 

This stand won't need to look pretty as it's being used for the basement sump but i think i should at least paint it black or clear coat it or something. I'll figure that out later after I have it built. One thing at a time.

In the basement it will be on a concrete slab, but not sure how even the floor will actually be...I think i will probably want to do an underlayment for this stand as well.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Looks great and very sturdy.The stuff I made for basement fish room got white "binz,kiltz or zinsser " sealer primer.A couple coats then I sealed clear polyurathane to "water proof it".
Seems like you built it like a pro.A great start to learning good building skills.Wear safety glasses when using saw and excercise caution always with power tools.
Besides buying the saw,you probably saved good money building over buying and definately got a better built stand.You have seen how a pre made wood stand would not have had even one 2x4,not to mention they buy the cheapest "mill "lumber they can get away with.


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## zwanged

Ok i finished attaching everything together. It seems very solid and i am very confident it will hold up great.

Here's a picture of the stand prior to painting:


And reinforcement underneath the top:




I had some spare exterior paint 'divine wine' color which had primer with it lying around so I decided to use that since I like the color and it's a little less boring than black.

Here's a picture after the first coat:



I'll do another coat tomorrow followed by a few coats of polyurethane.

Turned out better than I thought...If this one works out well i may end up just building my own stand and canopy for the 180 and saving myself $1600...this only took me 1 weekend and I'm relatively inexperienced. The hard part will be making it aesthetically pleasing enough for the wife 

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Haven't had a chance to update in a while.

The 75 gallon stand for the sump seems to be holding up nicely in the basement. Here's a few pictures.

Used 2 coats of exterior satin behr ultra paint ('divine wine') + 4 coats of rub-on polyurethane. Lighting in the basement is inadequate and doesn't do the color justice 





Next step, figure out how I will reinforce my kitchen floor... and where exactly to situate the basement sump.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Very nice! You should try to locate sump as directly under the the tank upstairs as possible.Not that water won't find it way there, that should be no problem at all(gravity).But returning the water to tank should be as straight a shot as possible.Not even just for plumbing ease ,but for strength of the pump;the shorter the distance,the less elbows(twist ,turns) the more flow you'll get from your pump.


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## coralbandit

You must be working too hard! Your schedule is off a bit here!


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## zwanged

Yep...definitely working too hard on work and other stuff  I probably won't get around to this for a while. Will definitely post when I have something to report 

-Zeke


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