# Water conditioner / dechlorinator questions?



## mrscrystal23 (Jul 5, 2012)

I have a question . my 55 gallon is overstocked as this is the tank I use to breed food for my cichlids and turtles . I have no problem doing water changes 3 times a week which is whats needed to keep the levels in the normal range . My first question is do I need to add water conditioner every time I add tap water when doing a water change . I have been doing it for the last couple months but now I have run out and I cant go to the lfs for at least 10 days . I have chicken pox and I cant even comb my hair to leave to house . So will my fish be ok if I add regular tap water . I always make sure the water is the correct temp but will ordinary tap water harm my fish .


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

If you have chloramines in your water, an unconditioned change is dangerous. If you have chlorine, as long as you stay under 30%, you should have no problem. If you have well water, you have zero need for conditioners. I think the answer is in there.
You're stuck with the chicken pox (sorry about that - I hope you feel better very soon) so the decision is whether the water changes will be worse than the overcrowding, I guess. 

If your feeders are from pet store feeder tanks originally, keep all opened skin injuries out of the water. Take care of yourself first.


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## mrscrystal23 (Jul 5, 2012)

How can I tell if I have chlorine or chloramines in my water . And my feeder fish are mollys guppys and platys and I just put them in the tank and let them breed . I stopped using store bought feeders after I lost a few fish to disease and was told that the store feeders is what likely introduced the disease into my tank


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You can call your water company and they should tell you whether or not they are using chloramine.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Susan's advice is important - knowing what is in your water is one of the most important things for a hobbyist. 

Most cities are wide open to calls about the water, or have web-pages with e-mail contacts that usually respond to citizens quickly.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have never use Declorinator or Conditioner and have never lost a fish during water changes. Do your changes slowly and with plenty of aeriation and filtration and you shouldn't have any ploblems. Remember the big killer of aquarium fish is over-crowding not water changes.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I'm sorry but chloramine doesn't dissapate out of the water and if your town uses it, you are taking a big chance. I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Are you on well water where it may not make a difference?

Your own habits and taking your risks is far different than implying that someone can do the same as you. Do what you want and at least advise on the side of caution before you post. It is just reckless stupidy without doing so.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

just looked on my water suppy website and theres masees of info on the water they supply and even this:

https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs/water-quality/TV045.pdf

full test results from last year (cant find this years so im going to call them)


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mrscrystal23 said:


> I have a question . my 55 gallon is overstocked as this is the tank I use to breed food for my cichlids and turtles . I have no problem doing water changes 3 times a week which is whats needed to keep the levels in the normal range . My first question is do I need to add water conditioner every time I add tap water when doing a water change . I have been doing it for the last couple months but now I have run out and I cant go to the lfs for at least 10 days . I have chicken pox and I cant even comb my hair to leave to house . So will my fish be ok if I add regular tap water . I always make sure the water is the correct temp but will ordinary tap water harm my fish .


sorry I can't help.

I use live plants like fast groiwng anacharis to balance out and stablize the tank.

Then just top off with tap water and no chemicals added.

So for a short time you probably would be ok by just topping off.

then as you get better add the plants.

But the main thing is for you to get all better and betterer. *old dude

my 02


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

do fish live in stagnat water in the wild?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

zero said:


> do fish live in stagnat water in the wild?


You mean like lakes and ponds? *old dude

my .02


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I've read in many instances of where lakes and ponds become stagnant and had mass fish die off's


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

They die because of low oxygen, similar to a beasl build. Low oxygen can occur even in highly planted areas.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

susankat said:


> I've read in many instances of where lakes and ponds become stagnant and had mass fish die off's


And flowing rivers as well.


There was a pond near the Holloman High speed rocket test track, near alamogrodo New Mexico close to the white sands.

It was between the sand dunes and well hidden. A non-man made depression which must have been below the water table. There was a population of gold fish and what looked like anacharis. The area was received ~9-10 inches of rain a year.

Not only were the school of fish active and appeared healthy but the water remained almost crystal clear. Only time I saw it otherwise was once immediately after one of the rare rains.

Where was absolutely no water flow noticable.


So that naturally occuring pond was almost exactly what I have been using in my tanks since the late '70's.

my .02


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

A lake or pond is only stagnant if it is "eutrophic" - dying from the decomposition of the plants within. I've seen partly eutrophic lakes where huge amounts of agricultural or livestock run off have tipped the balance and destroyed the oxygen levels of the water.
A normal lake or pond turns over regularly, evaporates, receives volumes of fresh rain and usually has streams running into it with fresh nutrients from the surrounding soil.
I'd argue that 90% of tanks are eutrophic from the get-go, and we keep them alive by regular 25% plus water changes. The volume of water in tanks is tiny, the filtration paltry, the bioload enormous and the consumption of the water's resources massive. 
Certain species will adapt - anabantoids like gouramies and bettas breathe surface air, swamp Rasboras are tiny, many livebearers evolved to handle seasonally stagnant pools in the dry season react to year round stagnation by dwarfing, etc. 
Bob accepts eutrophy as a normal state. Fair enough.

But we have two postings that aren't helpful to the average aquarist. If you don't know your water chemistry, how can you discuss someone else's based on your knowledge? I know I can use no conditioners, because I have no chloramines. It would be reckless of me to assume you don't have chloramines, as they are very widely used.

Meanwhile, bob was honest in starting out with the line "sorry I can't help". He's right. I don't know why he posted anything after, and why we are debating his one man in the whole wide world system, but he was clear and direct. He can't help in this discussion of the original question, by choice.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

so how do you make your tank not eutrophic?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mrscrystal23 said:


> How can I tell if I have chlorine or chloramines in my water . And my feeder fish are mollys guppys and platys and I just put them in the tank and let them breed . I stopped using store bought feeders after I lost a few fish to disease and was told that the store feeders is what likely introduced the disease into my tank


first of all welcome to all the comments on "my" methods. *old dude

Let me share my experience with my 10g guppy tank which is typical of the methods in the link in my signature. That tank ran from about 2001-2009. During that time I never did a water change. Never. just replace the evaporative water with straight untreated tap water. And my local water authority was and still is using chloramines.

that tank had a population of 30-40 guppies with 6-10 reproducing adults all of which were from the original cycle trio. Additionally about once ot twice a year I harvested 6 or so fish for other hobbiests.

So if you are basically culturing live bearers you may want to consider those techniques. What happens is you balance out and stabilize conditions so that water changes are not only not needed but in fact could very well degrade the conditions. 

In addition to culturing the live bearers you are also culturing plants which you may give away or sell to others as well.

Not to mention the plants themselves provide food for the fish in the from of snail eggs, pods , infusoria and so on. 

Plus new fry hide in the plants as well as receiving food.

FWIW I had no algae to the point where I went literally years without cleaning the glass.

Just something to consider amist all these posts.

worth at most 

.02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

zero said:


> so how do you make your tank not eutrophic?


I give up How?

Just a wild stab at this. And just my opinion. Of my ovservations from doing many many tanks in different cities since the late '70's.

I think it would kinda hard if not imposisible to become eutophic when the plants make the tank a net consumer of carbon dioxide and producer of oxygen each 24 hour period.

But that just my idea based upon my observations over the years.

but perhaps I need to look up definition:



denifition said:


> Eutrophication (Greek: eutrophia—healthy, adequate nutrition, development; German: Eutrophie) or more precisely hypertrophication, is the ecosystem response to the addition of artificial or natural substances, such as nitrates and phosphates, through fertilizers or sewage, to an aquatic system.[1] One example is the "bloom" or great increase of phytoplankton in a water body as a response to increased levels of nutrients. Negative environmental effects include hypoxia, the depletion of oxygen in the water, which induces reductions in specific fish and other animal populations



So eutrophic is the response to the addition of substances to aquatic environments. With oxygen depletion being a possible negative response.


Oh sorry. "My" techniques don't have that negative response. Just more fish and more plants. *old dude

my .02


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Ok lets not turn this thread into a discussion of Bob's tanks. Advising people not to use dechlorinators is considered animal cruelty on this forum so please refrain from this. Bob if they are using chloramines in your tap water it must be very little, because it can and will be harmful to fish and don't try to explain to me that it won't. I have seen to many instances of it killing fish due to not using dechlore. So stop stating how it won't.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

susankat said:


> Ok lets not turn this thread into a discussion of Bob's tanks.


+1


> Advising people not to use dechlorinators is considered animal cruelty on this forum so please refrain from this. Bob if they are using chloramines in your tap water it must be very little, because it can and will be harmful to fish and don't try to explain to me that it won't. I have seen to many instances of it killing fish due to not using dechlore. So stop stating how it won't.


for the record in case anyone didn't get it.

I recommend against and have never recommended one fill a tank with tap water, add plants or filters, then add fish.

With chlorinated tap water through chlorine or chloramines that will kill 100% of your fish 100% of the time.

And that is what I don't do. *old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If beasl would just have answered the question, if he had one, instead of the usual garbage or "can't help but I'm going to post anyway" nothing would have ever started. Instead he failed to answer and went on about how he stabalizes his tanks, which has nothing to do with the subject. And then it went into a stagnet water discussion started by him. So what he gets, he asks for....in nearly every case. Add that along with insisting that what he believes is the way things really are when it is not, I can give examples, he will always get this kind of thread blast.

My advice to the OP, read posts from him as the Aquarium world according to beasl....it doesn't apply to anyone else.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I started a new thread on eutrophication


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

There is really no point in asking him a question as you already know you won't get a straight forward answer. So just suggest not turning this into a discussin of bobs tanks.


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