# KH Testing



## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

I tested the KH in my son's tank and in my tank which comes from the same faucet. mine turned clear/yellow with 3 drops, his with 4. Would the salt in my tank make the difference? I don't understand what that tells me either...


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

PBrods said:


> I tested the KH in my son's tank and in my tank which comes from the same faucet. mine turned clear/yellow with 3 drops, his with 4. Would the salt in my tank make the difference? I don't understand what that tells me either...


Hello P...

Unless you keep rare fish species and have a real interest in chemistry, you don't need to be concerned with pH, hardness or any of that. It isn't necessary for a successful tank. Just remove and replace half the water in the tank every week. This simple process will maintain the water chemistry, your fish and plants will be healthy and you'll have one less thing to worry over.

B


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

BBradbury said:


> Hello P...
> 
> Unless you keep rare fish species and have a real interest in chemistry, you don't need to be concerned with pH, hardness or any of that. It isn't necessary for a successful tank. Just remove and replace half the water in the tank every week. This simple process will maintain the water chemistry, your fish and plants will be healthy and you'll have one less thing to worry over.
> 
> B


But people here are telling me that I need to know the KH to tell me if I need to add the salt and buffer for the cichlids


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Most fish (including chiclids) will adapt to a change in their original ph and kh conditions if you introduce slowly (drip acclamation is good for this). It is more important to keep your water conditions consistent.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

PBrods said:


> But people here are telling me that I need to know the KH to tell me if I need to add the salt and buffer for the cichlids


PBrods...

Sorry to help in your confusion, but I routinely add the standard aquarium salt to my water change water and don't worry about water testing.

Here's why: By flushing large amounts of pure, treated water through your tank every week, you're replenishing minerals your fish and plants need for good health and you don't allow time for harmful pollutants to build up in the water to make your fish sick. So, there's no need to test the water because you know conditions are stable. 

I have several, large planted tanks and change 60 to 70 percent of the water every week. I no longer need to test the water, I know it's very clean.

However, not all tank keepers follow such an aggressive routine and that's when you need to keep close tabs on your water conditions. By being what I call a "water change slacker", you have to rely on testing equipment and buy large, expensive filtration gear to monitor and sort of maintain clean water.

Again, sorry to cloud the issue, but I've never understood the reason for fancy testing and filtration equipment if you just replace at least half the tank water every week.

Just one old school, water keeper's opinion. 

B


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

BBradbury said:


> PBrods...
> 
> Sorry to help in your confusion, but I routinely add the standard aquarium salt to my water change water and don't worry about water testing.
> 
> ...


I'm hoping to have stable water but want to have water changes once a month max every other week. Where I live, electricity is cheap but water is VERY expensive. For every drop of water you use, they also charge you a sewerage fee.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Most people recommend water changes once a week. At the very minimum you should be doing water changes every 2 weeks. If you don't intend to do this the fish you get will probably die.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

I've talked with a guy that only does it once a month and his fish are triving...It's all in how you balance your tank. I'll have the right amount of fish form my tank along with a filter that is rated for a much larger tank and I'm probably going to slowly add live plants etc...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> Hello P...
> 
> Unless you keep rare fish species and have a real interest in chemistry, you don't need to be concerned with pH, hardness or any of that. It isn't necessary for a successful tank. Just remove and replace half the water in the tank every week. This simple process will maintain the water chemistry, your fish and plants will be healthy and you'll have one less thing to worry over.
> 
> B


Not that what you're saying is wrong, it just doesn't apply to what is being asked. You DO need to be concerned about ph if your tank cannot hold a steady value. The kh, or carbonate hardness, is what holds the ph stable. If a tank has a ph value that is up and down or bottoms out <6 after starting at a normal level, not too hard to see how you could loose most of your fish.

Also, water changes may help for a little while but will not really make much of a difference. I have seen the water in my kid's tank start at 7.0 and bottom out (read 6.0 on the API test) in less than 3hrs. A weekly change will not make an impact. The water ph will still yo-yo and likely kill the fish. Knowing the kh will tell you why.

You need a kh of about 3 degrees to hold the ph stable. That makes both of your tanks fine. You really don't need to test that too often unless you suspect something strange going with the ph.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> You need a kh of about 3 degrees to hold the ph stable. That makes both of your tanks fine. You really don't need to test that too often unless you suspect something strange going with the ph.


Ok but I did the test of one drop and shake tube etc... All that told me was that one tank took 3 drops and one tank took 4 drops. How do I take those results and get info about it. The instructions tell you what to do but nothing about what is good or bad or what it means...is there a chart somewhere that will give me info on what 3 drops mean or say what 10 drops means etc...?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

PBrods said:


> Ok but I did the test of one drop and shake tube etc... All that told me was that one tank took 3 drops and one tank took 4 drops. How do I take those results and get info about it. The instructions tell you what to do but nothing about what is good or bad or what it means...is there a chart somewhere that will give me info on what 3 drops mean or say what 10 drops means etc...?


It means one tank has 3 degrees of carbonate hardness and the other 4. It means you have the necessary buffers in your water to hold your ph stable. Beyond that, for most people anyway, that is all you need to know. As far as what is good or bad, there are a lot of different sources on the net. There is other stuff if you were going deeper into the planted tank world, but like I said mostly just making sure you were at the minimum level. A little more to gh, if you measure that...and not saying you need to.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

Would you say a stable 8.1 would be good for both Cichlids AND guppies, without any stablizers or buffers? Not in the same tank of course.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

PBrods said:


> I'm hoping to have stable water but want to have water changes once a month max every other week. Where I live, electricity is cheap but water is VERY expensive. For every drop of water you use, they also charge you a sewerage fee.


Good morning P...

I wish you luck with what seems like a very difficult issue with your water costs and tank chemistry. In my years in the "water keeping" hobby, I've always found and read the vast majority of tropical fish will do fine in the vast majority of public water supplies, with nothing more than large water changes weekly.

I hope you're able to find a way to keep your fish healthy with just a monthly water change. However, I find fish are extremely adaptable and tolerant and yours may well adapt to the water conditions you set up for them.

I'll be interested in your future posts.

B


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> Good morning P...
> 
> I wish you luck with what seems like a very difficult issue with your water costs and tank chemistry. In my years in the "water keeping" hobby, I've always found and read the vast majority of tropical fish will do fine in the vast majority of public water supplies, with nothing more than large water changes weekly.
> 
> ...


I don't see where you have a problem with your water chemistry if you're merely testing all aspects of it. If something needs to be changed, that's a different story but don't believe you are at that point.

I will agree with the water changes though. If you wanted to get away with less water changes, Cichlids will not be the way to go. Your nitrates will sky rocket with minimal water changes and that will start to cause issues with your fish over time. You could load that tank inch to inch with plants and they will help, but you'll still have the nitrate issues. Do what you want based off of what someone told you, your call. I have seen tanks like that at my friends house. His Guppies still reproduced but he had 2-3 die per week.


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

I've never done weekly water changes in a planted tank. One of the whole points of putting plants in there is to clean the water. I do add some chemicals for the plants though. Iron brings out reds, general fertilizer to support overall growth. Potassium--a nutrient consumed by having lots of plants. Excel is supposed to supply carbon in plants but I use it to combat algae growing on the leaves--if I get this. I often skip the chemicals but they help. I change the water about once a month or so and have had many of the same fish and plants for at least a couple years. Generally the tank is very clean and doesn't require much attention at all. 

In a salt water tank, I do change the water weekly or biweekly at most. There are lots of nutrients in salt mix that can only be added by doing water changes.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Funny, I have never thought of plants as a way to help keep my water clean. Time will tell with water changes.


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## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

Aquatic Castle said:


> I've never done weekly water changes in a planted tank. One of the whole points of putting plants in there is to clean the water. I do add some chemicals for the plants though. Iron brings out reds, general fertilizer to support overall growth. Potassium--a nutrient consumed by having lots of plants. Excel is supposed to supply carbon in plants but I use it to combat algae growing on the leaves--if I get this. I often skip the chemicals but they help. I change the water about once a month or so and have had many of the same fish and plants for at least a couple years. Generally the tank is very clean and doesn't require much attention at all.
> 
> In a salt water tank, I do change the water weekly or biweekly at most. There are lots of nutrients in salt mix that can only be added by doing water changes.


I have to disagree with that statement..sure plants suck up nutreints..thats what they do..but they are not meant to keep your water clean..water changes..water changes..water changes..

Rick


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

As far as the difference in KH readings between tanks, that might be due to different substrates and/or different natural additions like lace rock or driftwood. I know any rocks with limestone might screw with your KH.

Hope this helps...


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

Plants are commonly used as part of the live filtration system in marine/reef tanks. Usually it is in the form of macroalgae but red mangroves are also used. Mangroves are in a rare if not the only case where a complex plant can grow in seawater. Their primary purpose is to remove nitrate and phosphate. These are two things people remove when doing water changes. Another way to remove nitrate from a salt water system is with deep sand beds greater than 3 inches. This is one of several ways to create a low oxygen place where anaerobic bacteria use the nitrate as part of their metabolism. Without plants, a low oxygen place, or expensive chemical media; water changes are the only way to remove nitrate. There is no reason why this process wouldn't work in fresh water too.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Aquatic Castle said:


> Plants are commonly used as part of the live filtration system in marine/reef tanks. Usually it is in the form of macroalgae but red mangroves are also used. Mangroves are in a rare if not the only case where a complex plant can grow in seawater. Their primary purpose is to remove nitrate and phosphate. These are two things people remove when doing water changes. Another way to remove nitrate from a salt water system is with deep sand beds greater than 3 inches. This is one of several ways to create a low oxygen place where anaerobic bacteria use the nitrate as part of their metabolism. Without plants, a low oxygen place, or expensive chemical media; water changes are the only way to remove nitrate. There is no reason why this process wouldn't work in fresh water too.


Not to be rude, but what part of the OP's question pertains to nitrate and plants?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

PBrods said:


> *I've talked with a guy that only does it once a month and his fish are triving...It's all in how you balance your tank.* I'll have the right amount of fish form my tank along with a filter that is rated for a much larger tank and I'm probably going to slowly add live plants etc...


Hmmmmmm

Really?



*old dude


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