# Kids fair goldfish dies!!! what now???



## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Okay so normal story kid gets ball in cup I'm stuck with fish. We came home did what I could treated some water put him in a 1.5g bowl. After a day or two I noticed gasping for air did a water change like 10% added a filter and bubbler we had laying around. Went online did some research so my next move was dropping 220 on a 20 gallon tank decorations and all that Jazz. Used tetra safe start and waited 2 days and acclimated him and put him in. He was a comet all white with small red spot on top of head called brainy lol by the kids. Anyway everything was gravy for about a week and last night he was sleeping I thought? You know chillen in one spot breathing not moving much it was about 11 and around midnight going to bed stopped to say goodnight and he was dead against the filter. Anybody have any idea what happened? I thought he was fine oh well new fish time Which brings me to the next topic. I live in missouri and have incredibly hard water very high gh kh and a pH of about 8.4 ish maybe higher. my LPS petco says that all of their fish are used to the local water cause they use tap but I notice they use a special faucet while filling water for tanks. I'm thinking it's pretreatment some how. Are they lying saying that my fish will be okay and u can have anything in the store in my aquarium? I think what's going to happen is I'm going to buy fish and they will all die cause of the water like tetras need way lower ph don't they? And I'm just going to keep shelling out $ over and over for fish that are gona die. I don't want to mess with my water chemically too many variables and I don't want to mess up and kill my fish by accident. So what's up is she lying to me or what?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

This is a pic of my tank any tips suggestions things I should change I'm currently waiting for water to get warmer so I can get tropicals in


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Also the boys want to put lego decorations in you think these would be okay?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I am not sure on legos to be honest. 

Your issue is the tank is not cycled. You should look into a fishless cycling for the setup. Invest in a test kit and some pure ammonia. While you are cycling you can research species that would work for a 20 gallon ( comets are NOT one!) so you can set it up for the long haul.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Thanks. So the additives designed to introduce bacteria like the one I put in don't work? I figure after putting that and having him in their would have established some bacteria and such especially after a week. Also I have a test kit and levels are fine as far as ammonia and all that just really hard water. So petco "fish expert" is wrong on any fish working?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Its a toss up. Some say it helps some say it does nothing. I personally wouldnt risk it with fish as dirty as goldfish and go the fishless cycling route. 

I would be apprehensive to add more sensitive species such as kribs. However there are some fish who will acclimate. Thats the key word. If their water is different than yours ( most likely a slight difference in something unless you live very close to the store) then your best bet is to always do a drip acclimation on new inhabitants.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Actually amazing enough I live a mile from the store close enough?


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## ondoa (Feb 8, 2015)

First of all, a comet goldfish really needs a lot of space, so that was not the right fish to start with. I know they won it at the fair, but still not good idea. Goldfish put out a lot of waste , and if you put one into an uncycled tank you will have problems very fast.
Since you have set up the new tank, you should research the nitrogen cycle, which is not as complicated as it sounds. You can either do a fishless cycle, or a fish in cycle. If the kids are dying for fish, a fish in cycle sounds like the way to go. In this situation, you add fish very slowly. Maybe start with one or two small bodied fish. Most likely they will be tropical, so you will want a heater. Goldfish do not require a heater. After you add the fish, test the water every day for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate using a liquid test kit. Once the fish have been in there for a couple of weeks and the water is good, meaning testing out with no ammonia and nitrites, then you could try adding a couple more small fish. It is a process to get the bacteria to build up, but if you don't do it the water will be poisoned by the fish waste and they will die. Talk to your fish guy at the shop. Petco and Petsmart employees are hit or miss. Some know what they are talking about and some do not.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL Well it depends on several factors. If you share the same water company and have the same type of pipes then yes pretty much the same thing. Otherwise some things can be different.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Ok thanks so much for all the advice however my tank has been cycling with that old goldfish for about a week plus the quick start bacteria so shouldn't it be a little cycled atleast starting some kind of cycle by this point right? the kids decided they wanted red eye tetras this time so I bought 4 before this post updated so I guess I'm stuck putting 4 in lol. I really hope they can finish cycling the tank cause jeez taking them their was a bad idea now each kid has a laundry list of fish they want lmao. Max I only want 16" of combined fish in my tank for a 20g that's more than comfortable yea? And I am taking into account the adult size of the fish not the babys I by at petco.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Inch per gallon rule is a myth. It is highly inaccurate. You must go by the species needs.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Damn well what the hell man I guess even forums are full of disinformation. Okay well looks like the biggest fish on the radar for this 20g is an angel fish(the wife). Do those have any special requirments? Mine is a tall 20g so...... Also if I did overcrowd the aquarium just a little would a bigger filter be required to put up with a higher stress load or don't be a cheapskate and just buy a bigger tank?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Also I've been really sketched putting my bare hands and arm in the tank cause I am human I sweat have oils use soap all over have cologne smoke cigs so who knows what's on my skin. I've been using cattle gloves like the ones vets do to check the business end or do inciminations. A 10 pack costs 5 bucks keep going this route or am I being too cautious?


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

Do you need a big fish?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

No but max angels only get like 6 right? I figured 1 couldn't hurt and she's kinda dead set on it but hey if it's not cool and you think they will be suffering then I'm all about not getting one


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

A beautiful aquarium needs no decoration. This brings the beginner dangers. A black background (cardboard behind it represent) and green plants might look better.
Goldfish do not suffer from the water hardness. Maybe it's too tight, or too warm.
But if you want to have Tetras and scalar, then the water should not be hard. Mixing with RO water or distilled water.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

I've heard that mixing in ro can disrupt all my levels so much it could kill them. I guess I could get 1 gallon and add ro till things change to where they should be and then multiply that by 5 and that's what I should do for my water changes however to get it in "level" in tank do 5% a day straight ro so ph doesn't drop too fast? some people say the fish will adjust To the ph especially since the LPS is the same water basically. Also what is a good way to get the new water for changes to be the same as tank?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Also side note alot of people (no offense) are throwing generic advice out like check my amonnia levels and so on. When I joined I obviously looked at cycling and such. I joined to get real advice from real people who have actually tried things they are throwing out for advice. Example don't just tell me to use ro give me your situation and what you did with ro and how it worked for you. Honestly if your not from an area like mine a lead belt that has been heavily mined so my water as a result is super hard and full of calcium and lime. Then you obviously don't have any experience. I'm really not trying to be a jerk I would just like real advice thanks. Again no offense


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

By no experience I mean experience with my water type. Not as an aquarist that would be absurd of me to say!


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

tanksaretvs said:


> Also I've been really sketched putting my bare hands and arm in the tank cause I am human I sweat have oils use soap all over have cologne smoke cigs so who knows what's on my skin. I've been using cattle gloves like the ones vets do to check the business end or do inciminations. A 10 pack costs 5 bucks keep going this route or am I being too cautious?


The gloves may be a little overkill but do what makes you comfortable. I wash my hands in plain water before I work on my tanks just to remove any soap if I've used it recently. With two dogs around and just cooking or generally cleaning, wiping counters, etc. it seems I'm always washing my hands for something - not OCD, though!

Can't help you with the PH issue, but as for cycling, since you now have fish just continue to monitor ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for some time. I would do it at least every other day. Unless you actually watched your tank go through the full nitrogen cycle you can't be certain it was completed. A cycle does take time - usually weeks and with fish even longer. You need to see the ammonia rise, then fall with the rise of nitrites. Then the nitrites will fall with the rise of nitrates. It is the beneficial bacteria that will eventually take care of ammonia and nitrites. Nitrates will continue to build in an aquarium but these are reduced through your weekly water changes. With fish, you want to keep ammonia and nitrites below .25. If you see these rise, a water change of about 50% should be completed. This could be necessary several times a week if you have an uncycled tank with fish in it.

As far as stocking, one angel may "survive" in a 20 high tank, but generally they do better in something larger. It will, however, limit additional stock numbers and choices and may not do very well even with the red eye tetras. Here's a couple of profiles for the tetra - note the comments regarding potential fin nipping and their somewhat "boisterous" nature. This could be disturbing to an angel as they occupy similar levels within the tank. They do seem well suited, however, to your higher PH.

Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae (Red-eye Tetra) ? Seriously Fish
Red Eye Tetra - Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae


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## ondoa (Feb 8, 2015)

I think an angelfish would be a bad choice for a 20gallon tank. They grow to be large fish and need plenty of room to swim.


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

Better, I would not write it.
An important part of our hobbies is also its own research. Own results, also negative, are a sense of achievement.
This one should not prevent. It remembers better.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

The minimum size for angel fish is a 29 gallon. They dont get huge per se. They grow tall. I have one right now who is easily 12 inches from fin to fin. They still need to move about.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Arthur7 what are you talking about? And okay. Well could I get fish for now in a 20g and switch them to a bigger tank later? This 20g is for the kids I want a 120-150 for ours. Example if the women saw an angel she liked and it was one of a kind and only maybe an inch long if I bought a bigger tank say within the next 6 months would it be okay?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Brings up another question is their a rough amount of time it takes the average fish to grow to its full size or is it completely depending on species


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

tanksaretvs said:


> Arthur7 what are you talking about? And okay. Well could I get fish for now in a 20g and switch them to a bigger tank later? This 20g is for the kids I want a 120-150 for ours. Example if the women saw an angel she liked and it was one of a kind and only maybe an inch long if I bought a bigger tank say within the next 6 months would it be okay?


Yes, it would be OK. But again, it will limit what you can put in the 20 for now. Fish growth to adulthood is dependent on the fish and the conditions it lives in, along with what it gets fed. I'd guess a well maintained angel will be close to 8-12 months to reach maturity.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Awesome thank you so much


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## ondoa (Feb 8, 2015)

I agree with Sue. You can put a small angel into a 20g temporarily, but just make sure your tank is cycled. When you get your larger tank, make sure you are patient with the cycling process. It does take time. I suggest taking some of the filter media from your established tank (if you get it established successfully) and adding that to the new filter in the new tank. It will already have some of the nitrifying bacteria in it. That will greatly aid in the cycling process. Do not use filter media from a tank that is having water issues or has unhealthy fish.


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Well duh to if it's bad water or has disease lol I'm not a complete idiot but I understand some are. Okay now if I do that route like you say will the bigger tank then very closely match the 20g as far as water parameters go and if so can I just throw the fish in(figuritively) or will I still need to drip accclimate? Also 120 is a little unrealistic when renting a home so 55-75 should be plenty to do alot with correct? Also is their a thread on here already on cycling a tank using old filter media and how exactly does one "take" a piece out of it?


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

Also side note..... talk about petco employees so I went to my local one when I bought the 4 red eyes and the employee sold me black skirt tetras or something other idk but I can't help but laugh cause wow talk about a mistake I've been wondering why the hell they where called that when they don't have a red eye????? So I have 5 of the skirts 5 because I noticed 1 out of the 4 had red tips to its fins so I went and bought a 2nd red tip one cause idk in case he got picked on by the 3 it would spread it out a little I figured. different species? Or just male female markings? Still incredible that I was "sold" one type but brought home something different. I got a better deal though the reds where cheaper


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

And upon further googling these are without a doubt black phantom tetras. Wow just wow is all I gotta say


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL sounds about right.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

tanksaretvs said:


> Well duh to if it's bad water or has disease lol I'm not a complete idiot but I understand some are. Okay now if I do that route like you say will the bigger tank then very closely match the 20g as far as water parameters go and if so can I just throw the fish in(figuritively) or will I still need to drip accclimate? Also 120 is a little unrealistic when renting a home so 55-75 should be plenty to do alot with correct? Also is their a thread on here already on cycling a tank using old filter media and how exactly does one "take" a piece out of it?


Using the same water source/water treatments will result in the same parameters. The variable might be the temp which will of course depend on the heater settings. Angels tend to like temps a little higher than most tetras (closer to 80F) so if you decide to run the larger tank at a higher temp, you'll want to acclimate him to that temp. But you could do this by slowly raising the temp on the smaller tank first. When the angel is moved, you could slowly reduce the temp in the first tank back to 76-78 or wherever you had been keeping it.

As far as tank size, I would choose the 75g over the 55g due to the width (front to back). The 55g is only 13" and the 75 is 18" - that's a big difference. Better for planting/decorating and for fish swimming room.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

tanksaretvs said:


> Also side note..... talk about petco employees so I went to my local one when I bought the 4 red eyes and the employee sold me black skirt tetras or something other idk but I can't help but laugh cause wow talk about a mistake I've been wondering why the hell they where called that when they don't have a red eye????? So I have 5 of the skirts 5 because I noticed 1 out of the 4 had red tips to its fins so I went and bought a 2nd red tip one cause idk in case he got picked on by the 3 it would spread it out a little I figured. different species? Or just male female markings? Still incredible that I was "sold" one type but brought home something different. I got a better deal though the reds where cheaper


The black skirts are also known as black widow and differ from the black phantom. Here are two profiles. Both have lower PH requirements but fish can and do adapt to different parameters. My PH tends to run about 7.4-7.6 and I have fish doing well whose "published" requirements have a high of 7.0.

Hyphessobrycon megalopterus – Black Phantom Tetra (Megalamphodus megalopterus, Megalamphodus rogoaguae) ? Seriously Fish
Gymnocorymbus ternetzi (Black Widow Tetra) ? Seriously Fish


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

An advice is always to the fact that another does not make mistakes that I made myself. It is a well-intentioned criticism.
Plan in advance what you want to do.
20g is a size in which many kinds of fish feel comfortable, but not so large.
The Goldfish comes with your water values ​​good. In my goldfish pond with lime. There are approximately the same values.
Goldfish are but in narrow vessel sensitive to high water stress. Have plenty fed? Is food left over? If it is still warm, the fish will soon gasping for air.
After the screen you have a white gravel. Showcase gravel. That's marble. a hardness components. It is not round but sharp break in the grain. This makes it chemically active.
Then another thing: You have said that they want to keep angelfish and tetras. Again, must first be considered. These fish want it slightly acidic (6.5) and soft. Humic acids, color slightly yellowish brown, like tea.
The water has to be trimmed, otherwise it is nothing.

My situation: In the high-rise building, city center. 6th floor. Below me live a lot of people. The biggest thing I have dared are 100 liters (25 g).
I would have liked discus. But you can not. The size starts at 1 cubic meter. The statics of the house is not allowed to.
So I have to have smaller fish (Killies)
Our water in the 60 'came from a dam in the mountains. 6 ° GH; 3.5 ° KH.
Neon Tetra, Phantom Tetra, Kardinal Neon, all bred by without additional activities.
But the city grew and it had to be done from a larger reservoir of water. The quality was not good. Desalting over resin exchanger. Cations, anions thereafter. It must be regenerated with concentrated hydrochloric acid and the other with sodium hydroxide solution. Not good for the home. More for hatcheries.
They found the RO method in space research. Elegant for aquarists without poison. But must be measured accurately when blending.
Conductivity; TTS-meter)


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## tanksaretvs (May 8, 2015)

you mentioned that the 55 is only 12 however the tank I'm getting is 50×14×18 so the 14 makes it a little better yea? Just cause 75 are usually a pick up item and so far haven't been able to find one biggest local is 55


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## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

I've never seen that specific size, standard 55s are 48x13x20


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

50x14x18 inches is 54.7 g

The size is suitable for scalar.

But no hard water!
Do they measure whether it is so hard from the tap?
maybe the hardness also comes from the white gravel.


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