# first aquarium ever, going to petsmart today to get some fish need advice



## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

i got a 10 gallon starter kit by topfin because it was a good deal
i bought a java fern and hornwarts live plant and a neat vase decoration

anyways this was on tuesday, so the water has been conditioned with a sample that came with my kit

i am not sure what i want at all, i want fun interesting fish

my friend just got 5 tetras, they look cool, but seemed boring to watch
he also got a shark which was cool but i know my 10 gallon wont support it from research

here is a vague description of what i want, a small school of fish in the middle (3-4?)
2 bottom fish (was thinking oto cats?)
and from there on i will wait and see what i think would go well

i really want an africian or s.american cichlid but i know they will eat my school of fish and maybe grow too large for my 10 gallon

for the school fish i been looking at the tequila sunrish guppies, but i dont know

what is the difference between guppies/molllies/danios/tetras/barbs

they all look very similiar in size to me so what shud i get? 1 of each? a school of just one
a school of both

since my 10 gallon is a basic rectangle shape i would assume middle and top water swimmers would just take all of that room? i should only buy 4 fish max right now right???


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## plecosrawesome (Mar 1, 2011)

i would go 4 fish max and you need to cycle the tank a little more..maybe wait a week or 2 more and test your water..


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

why do i have to cycle more? i read alot here n there saying that you can add a few fish and it will make the cycling easier

i dont want to test my waters because i dont have that much money right now, i just wanna get like 2-3 fish today


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## plecosrawesome (Mar 1, 2011)

you can cycle with fish but you need hardy fish like the zebra danio or you can do a fishless cycle and wait either way your gonna have to wait a little bit before adding less hardy fish


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

k thanks, so i would be safe in buying guppies or danios today? i read that guppies are hardy

also any opinions on the fish i listed in terms of which would be most satisfactory to keep for years


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## plecosrawesome (Mar 1, 2011)

not so sure about guppies, never had'em but sure...and theres not alot of fish for that size tank to choose from, maybe guppies, tetras, mollys(they breed a lot so be careful),maybe a small gourami etc.


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## Ming shipwreck (Feb 26, 2011)

If you want to save money cycling the tank, get the pet store people to squeeze some gunk from one of their filters into a plastic bag. Pour that water into your tank, and add no more than the equivalent of 2 or 3 guppies/danios/white clouds. Then double that after maybe a week. Then add the rest of the fish after another week. Just running the filter with water but no fish (or other ammonia source) in the tank does absolutely nothing to prepare it for fish. The filter does absolutely nothing to the water if there is no bacteria colony, the bacteria colony won't grow on plain water.

And I wouldn't worry about the filter squeezings having any contagious fish diseases. There is maybe a small possibility that it could, but there is about a 100% chance that ammonia in the tank will kill your fish if you stock the tank with more than a tiny number of fish before it has cycled.

As for what fish to get, white clouds (white cloud mountain minnows) are a great small fish, the Petsmart here in Chicago has them, so maybe yours carries them too. They are smaller than the danios, about the same size as big fancy guppies, not quite as small as the neon tetras. You should get at least 5, they like to be in groups. If you have enough plants and good lighting, a 10-gallon tank could easily house 5-6 of those and 5-6 cories and/or otos (maybe 3 of each). White clouds are way more active and entertaining than guppies. They chase each other around tank all the time, and the males flare out their fins at each other, which is gorgeous. I have 6 adult white clouds in my 20-gallon long crayfish tank and they go from chilling out to clustering in a tight school, to zipping around the tank. They are supposed to be hardy and not picky eaters, and they are very gentle.

For other fish, Otos (otocinclus catfish) are great algae eaters and extremely cute and active all the time. Don't get a "Chinese algae eater", they grow to 6+ inches and might eat other fish. Otos get along with everything. The only catch is they need to be fed little slices of zucchini or other veggies until you have a lot of algae in your tank (and even then they should probably get some extra food every week or so). Otos should be in a school of at least 4-5, but they are very low bioload because they are tiny and all they eat is veggies and algae.

I was thinking of getting a few kuhli loaches (also should be in groups of 3+) for my 10-gallon, but you need to have either very, very fine gravel, or sand on the bottom of your tank.

I wouldn't put mollies in a tank that small. In fact I think even zebra danios might not be ideal for that tank, because they want a lot of space to swim around.

Dwarf gouramis are notorious for dying for no reason. Non-dwarf gouramis will need more space than you have.

What kind of light do you have and how long is it on (do you have a timer)? A "cool white" 20W energy saver bulb with color temperature of at least 5000 would probably be enough light to really make your hornwort grow, and then you won't have to change the water as much.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

thnx great advice, however i went out n bought 3 guppies and i luv them
there in a bag sitting in the aquarium
the lady said sit in 10 minutes than net them out

im kind of worried about using my net cuz i dont wana hurt them but dam it feels good to finaly have some fish

anyways, can someone teach me about how long to leave the light on *my aquarium is in my room near a window but i can easily block light to it or allow light* talking about my hood light btw i have plants too

and feeding patterns and how much

thanks

i will look into white clouds, i like how u said they chase each other around, i wish i read this b4 i bought the guppies but o well first time for err thing


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

so i noticed they started out in the middle and chilled at the top for a while making me wonder about oxygen but now they are at the very bottom lol, basically going everywhere

i noticed they are nibbling on the floating pieces of my hornwart plant is that enough diet for today? should i feed them >< i have flakes that came with my starterkits made for tetras n goldfish but they are same diet?


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## Ming shipwreck (Feb 26, 2011)

If you're trying to minimize tank maintenance, I would say just stick with sunlight. You don't want a ton of bright or direct sun--like if the tank is getting direct sun 4 hours a day, that is too much unless you're trying to grow really light-hungry plants--but otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it too much. You will get algae if you have any kind of light, but I think it's a good trade off for being able to keep plants in the tank and not having to change the water as much.

To eat up nutrients and prevent algae, the hornwort will help, the ferns won't do much, and if you can find any kind of floating plant, like water lettuce, duckweed, or salvinia, that is a huge help. They are much, much more efficient at using nutrients than plants that are entirely under water. You could get duckweed for free if you can get to a pond, just take a good handful of it and put it in your tank.

Another good thing to get is "stem plants", there's one called water wisteria that grows really fast and is supposed to be a "nutrient sponge". Also rotala or water milfoil. You can just stick the stem in the gravel, they will grow roots.

With a clump of hornwort in the tank and sunlight, your guppies should be fine even if the filter hasn't developed bacteria colonies yet. 

3 guppies isn't a lot of fish, you could add another 10 fish about the same size and you won't be over-stocked.

As for what you will enjoy having for years and years, I think the big fish tend to be the ones that live longer and have more personality. The nice thing about guppies is that they will breed if you have any females (but then you shouldn't have too many more males than females or the males will chase the females and wear them out), and if you have fancy guppies of different kinds, you can enjoy seeing all the different hybrids you get as they breed. White clouds also are supposed to breed in the tank but you need a lot of bushy plants to catch the eggs. I've only had mine a few months, but I haven't gotten bored of them yet, and so far I find them a lot more entertaining than guppies, although a male guppy in breeding mode chasing around the female and doing the fin dance is pretty cool too.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

thnx alot dude im excited 
i am watching them and they seem lively, i notice that they NEVER seperate even though all 3 are of different race (tequila sunrise, a blue one and this one i dont know)

im thinking i want another breed of school to play with them, danois? white clouds? those white clouds sound interesting but when i googled a pic i didnt like the plain look

also as for the bottom, corey or oto cats? i liked both and i will prob get 3 

of either group so they have friends

also i have 2 decor that fish can hide in but the guppies never go in there, will they ever?


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## Ming shipwreck (Feb 26, 2011)

Guppies probably won't eat the hornwort, they'll just eat whatever bacterial slime is growing on it. I would still feed them. The goldfish flakes are fine for now, you can switch to tropical fish flakes later. 

The more you feed them, the more waste they make and the more filtration you need. So if you have a lot of hornwort and a lot of bright light, you might be able to get away with full feedings and that will help the tank cycle faster and prepare for other fish. Otherwise, I would start out feeding them a very tiny amount of food (maybe 3-4 large flakes for the whole tank, once a day) and slowly increasing it over the week up to however much they can eat in 3 minutes.

Sounds like your fish are having fun exploring their new digs. Good luck!


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## Ming shipwreck (Feb 26, 2011)

They'll stick together at first because they're in unfamiliar territory, then kind of go their own way once they get used to the tank. But guppies are actually really social, they seem to recognize other guppies they've seen before. If one of them is sick, the others will hang out by it. I had 2 males in a very small tank, they were always fighting. I moved one to a big tank and then I think a couple weeks later I moved the other one with him. In this huge 20 gallon tank with tons of plants, these two males find each other from across the tank and start duking it out... 

In my experience they don't like to hide in caves, so you probably won't see them going inside the decorations that much.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

so i think im gona buy a cichlid and a cory fish or oto fish, and than another school later depending on how the cichlid reacts

ill buy a small cichlid and hopefuly they non agressive


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## Ming shipwreck (Feb 26, 2011)

Most cichlids are aggressive and I'm not sure if there's any cichlid that will fit in a 10-gallon tank.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

cichlids can be very fussy with water parameters and also tank size, for the most a 10gl is pushing it for this type of fish bolivian rams for example only a fairly small cichlid can grow to about 3' to 4'. They require tanks of quite larger water volumes most recommend 20+gl tanks being a minimum you'd be pushing it even at a 15gl tank. As far as im aware most cichlids tend to require roughly the same.

Dwarf gouramis are nice and when there is both a female and male their personalities show so much more and become interesting to watch. In your tank i'd suggest these over a cichlid simply due to what space and volume you have to play with.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Whatever you do, don't buy anymore fish until the cycle has completed. Keep your feeding to a minimum during the process. It is a very small tank and it won't take much to push it to where your fish are in danger. Unless you got a test kit, you won't be able to check your tank's progress through the cycle or know when you "need" to do a water change before your fish start dying.

Once the tank is cycled you can add a few more fish, but NOT 10 more. I would play it safe and go for no more than 2-3 small fish. The tank is so small that many types of fish will become stressed out with a heavy population based on the size of the tank, and start getting aggressive or start having health issues. Better to have 5 or so fish and they be and remain healthy, than having 10+ and having one die every week.


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

ok so you're definently gonna need a test kit. no matter how hardy the fish they wont last long with ammonia. you need to be able to do water changes to keep ammonia and nitites down to .25. no dwarf cichlid or regular will fit in a 10 gallon. 20 gallon minimum for all dwarf cichlids. 30> for regular cichlids. i would not put otos in until the tank is WELL established im talking around 3 months old. they dont eat much other then algae. the only cory i would put in a 10 gallon is a pygmy cory and id do nothing under 4. a good thing to help you stock is aqadvisor.com but dont add anymore fish until you test and get ammo-0, nitrites-0, nitrates-<40. id do 6-mosquito rasboras, 3-guppies, 4-pygmy corys in that tank.


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## plecosrawesome (Mar 1, 2011)

yeah I would say maybe like 3 or 3 regular corys whatever there called, and the guppies and that's it but don't add the corys until the tank is established like Neman wad raking about


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I have a 10 gallon tank and was excited like you were when I first started. I had 3-4 guppies to start and lost 1. All in all, I ended up with 8 guppies, 7 Cardinal tetras and an albino pleco...... fish started dying left and right. No matter what anyone says, you can NOT have 10 fish in a 10 gallon tank! (Trust me, I tried and I'm not a first time aquarist).

I know the amount I have in my tank now (listed in my signature), is still too much, but am not still adding anything and won't add anything once some of the fish get old and die. The 2 guppies I have left are really bloated from too much protein - they need a mostly veggie flake diet - and won't get thin no matter what I feed them.... I think they are eventually going to die. 

I'm only telling you this because lots of people on here are giving you good advice about not over stocking, and I don't want you to get disappointed if all your fish die if you over stock.  (I wish I had this forum when I first started, lol).

Any way, 5 fish and a good water test kit, the proper food for the 5 fish, and you should be good to go. Good luck! (p.s. I saw you may want an Oto. They should be in groups, so 3 is the least you should get.... and they are fragile and die very easily. The first I ever got died the same day. This next batch is on to week 3 and still seem good, so we'll see how it goes).

Keep us posted on how your tank is doing! (We love pics!)


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

you can get peas to help bloating, and technically the number of fish doesnt matter. there are many different factors when stocking such as where they swim, how much waste they excrete, how big they are, how aggressive they are,etc. you could keep 10 fish or more but have to keep in mind all the factors.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

well despite what pple said i bought alot more fish today cudnt help myself, i dont know about getting a test kit they are like 17 bux..
i got 1 black molly 1 rred platy 2 cory fish adn 1 oto cat

ya alot and they are happy right now and seemvery healthy but i have no doubt trouble may stir up, but it will be an experience im happy iwth what i have right now

wish i got the cihclid instead tho, i may get one later and let him eat the smaller fish lol


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## Subaru4wd (May 6, 2011)

Why are you even posting here? Its apparent you took NOBODY's advice and just did what you wanted.

Here's the thing.

Your fish are going to die. The water in your tank is going to change DRASTICALLY in the next few weeks. The fish will not adapt to these changes, and they will die off. 

Instead of spending good money and investing in a test kit, you went and threw away money on fish that will just end up dying. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself before you start to kill off a ton of fish for no reason other than your own ignorance.

Read this article: The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

Familiarize yourself with the types of Bacteria you *NEED* to test for... Ammonia & Nitrates. Familiarize yourself with the species of fish you want to keep in your tank, and at the VERY LEAST get a freaking PH kit so you can monitor PH levels in your tank.

If not, just leave now because its obvious you are not serious about this hobby and don't really care about the life of your fish at all.


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## Subaru4wd (May 6, 2011)

Oh, and if you go and buy a Cichlid and stuff it in your tiny 10g tank, im REALLY going to be pissed!


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## Paladine9169 (May 6, 2011)

Id add something here, but i think Sub covered most of it. You fish will probably die, maybe not all, but some. Most of the time in a new tank, your first fish die.. The testing kit is VERY important.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Wow... I mean... wow..... why ask for advice if you clearly don't want it? Your Oto will probably be dead by the end of the week, so it's probably good that you only got one.... and why would you get a bigger fish and LET it eat the smaller ones? That's just cruel!

Like Subaru4x4 said, the money you spent on fish could have been spent on a test. Since most (or all) of these fish are going to die, you're going to be out that money. Fish keeping can be an awesome and amazing hobby, but you really have to research and TAKE some advice before starting. Fish are living creatures and deserve to live in an environment where they will be happy and healthy too.


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

pairenoid said:


> why do i have to cycle more? i read alot here n there saying that you can add a few fish and it will make the cycling easier
> 
> i dont want to test my waters because i dont have that much money right now, i just wanna get like 2-3 fish today


I have been staying out of this one because I did not want to be the first to rip this guy a new one.

His second post had me biting my tongue (quoted above.) I knew by this post this person was going to do what they wanted irregardless of advise given with no regard to the health of his fish. 

Back to the darkness before I say something that gets me in trouble!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

An ammonia test is $5-6. Cheaper than the fish you got. The fish you got are a little sensitive to tanks that have ammonia, so I would suspect you'll have issues. 

If you don't want to get a test kit, then fine....at least do this....do a 50% water change starting tomorrow and do it no less than every other day....try to do it everyday. Keep that up for about 30 days and your fish may have a chance. A test kit would have told you when to do this, but you're going in blind. A 10g would take less than 10min from start to finish to do a 50% water change.


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

wow. poor fish. you didnt research at all. even the fish are wrong for the tank. the molly needs 30 gallons. the otos will die bc there isnt any algae. the corys and ottos will hate life bc they arent in the groups they need. the poor things have to go through the nitrogen cycle. please take them back to the store. your never gonna get through the cycle with the molly anyway. they excrete alot of waste and get 6 inches wayyyyy too big for a 10 gallon. plz listen to people on here.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Everyone has voiced an opinion that I wanted to post, but didn't. I decided to see what would happen. As stated the original OP is not going to take anyone's advice. I will leave this thread open for now and if it gets nasty then I will lock this thread.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I have to agree with everyone how silly it was to rush in and get a number of fish, some stated which are not even suited for such confined space tank wise. Even with my newest tank which i decided to explore new species which i had never kept before I still took several days to research into compatibility with the other fish and also minimum tank requirements.

However it is still a very common "newbie" mistake, getting excited about a new tank and just wanting to cram it with fish straight away, not even thinking fish have requirements. Nor that water needs to have certain parameters to be 'healthy' for most fish. I know of a lot of people who do the same and its this mistake they soon learn from.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> since my 10 gallon is a basic rectangle shape i would assume middle and top water swimmers would just take all of that room? i should only buy 4 fish max right now right???


You should only buy 4 fish max, period. Not just for now..a 10g tank isn't enough for a school of community fish (6+). 3 Guppies and 3 Ghost Shrimp might work. Learn about the Nitrogen Cycle before doing anything, or you'll only give yourself a headache in the end. You'll have to do a lot of maintenance to this thing.


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

i bet the OP is ignoring all this GREAT advice and sitting in front of his aquarium thinking about how beautiful it looks, but in less then a week he'll be looking at an empty tank wondering what happened to all his fish.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

It happens..people get excited and can't control themselves. When I brought my fish home I so, so, so wanted to put them in after 10 minutes of acclimating them but knew I couldn't. I also wanted badly to get a little pleco that I knew would outgrow the tank and eventually trade him/her in, but I knew I'd become attached and wouldn't want to trade the fish in because I wouldn't trust the petstore and the next buyer, so I didn't buy one at all.

I want to ask something of everyone reading this guy's thread and is upset/agitated at him not listening, and to the OP himself. Do you guys think the ammonia removing medium for the Aquaclear filter would be a good investment here? I saw them the other day and thought "If this thing actually works well, there would be little need to cycle." My advice would be for the OP to buy an Aquaclear 20 (maybe even 50) and use the ammonia medium in one of the three slots, but I don't know if this would even be enough. Maybe a sponge and 2 ammonia media lol. Does anyone know how effective these things are?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I have seen this happen many times with newbies, but this is a first time for seeing it done after all the good advice was given before the fish were bought. Will probably get another post later asking why all my fish died.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

He may not do so bad if he does 50% water changes everyday for the next 30 or so. Losses could be minimized anyway.


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

the molly still should be taken back though. i think with 50% water changes a day they'll still die. the levels will shoot up to 8.0 with that many fish and will only go down to 4.0 a day. way to harmful on the fish. i think if he takes back the recent fish and keeps the 3 guppies then the 50% a day would work.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> I also wanted badly to get a little pleco that I knew would outgrow the tank and eventually trade him/her in, but I knew I'd become attached and wouldn't want to trade the fish in because I wouldn't trust the petstore and the next buyer, so I didn't buy one at all.



Ever though of an Albino Bushy Nosed Pleco or a regular Bushy Nosed Pleco? (They usually top out at about 3 inches - sometimes bigger but usually stay pretty small). Great algae eaters. Just make sure you don't have a lot of other bottom feeders because they can get territorial. I had to trade mine in because she was attacking my ADF's since the tank is small. She was adorable. Since she was a girl, she didn't have the scary branches on her nose, lol.

Just an idea, since you expressed an interest in Plecos.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

holly12 said:


> Ever though of an Albino Bushy Nosed Pleco or a regular Bushy Nosed Pleco? (They usually top out at about 3 inches - sometimes bigger but usually stay pretty small). Great algae eaters. Just make sure you don't have a lot of other bottom feeders because they can get territorial. I had to trade mine in because she was attacking my ADF's since the tank is small. She was adorable. Since she was a girl, she didn't have the scary branches on her nose, lol.
> 
> Just an idea, since you expressed an interest in Plecos.


Yeah, I thought of getting a bristlenose...really wanted to in fact, but decided not to and went with 4 Dwarf Frogs and a handful of Ghost Shrimp instead. A few things that factored into my decision were (other than I really wanted the frogs) that the only store I found with bristlenose plecs was 45 mins away and charged $30 for them, plus I wanted to have a decent amount of plants in the aquarium and didn't want the plec to thrash around and damage them. Thanks though....maybe one day I'll get that bristlenose, they look incredibly awesome.


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## Subaru4wd (May 6, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> well despite what pple said i bought alot more fish today cudnt help myself, i dont know about getting a test kit they are like 17 bux..
> i got 1 black molly 1 rred platy 2 cory fish adn 1 oto cat
> 
> ya alot and they are happy right now and seemvery healthy but i have no doubt trouble may stir up, but it will be an experience im happy iwth what i have right now
> ...


Maybe I should apologize. I think I may have scared him away. I didn't mean to lose my temper and turn this thread into a "beat up the newb" thread. But there is a whole lot more to fishkeeping than putting your fish in water, and adding flakes every day. I just hope the OP understands that and is willing to accept it. 

And cichlids are some of the coolest fish out there. I am chomping at the bit to start my next tank just so I can collect some cichlids and put them together in my new tank. I have probably went to the local fish store 3 times this week to look at various fish and I cant tell you how many hours I have spent daydreaming about my new setup and how it will be.

But with that comes hours of research and reading about species and types of fish. Their behavior and their habitats. What they eat (your plants??? your fish???). What water conditions they thrive in (this is where those tests come in) and what it takes to keep them happy (i had to completely rearrange my tank to suit the needs of 1 of my fish).

This hobby isn't as easy as people make it out to be. And it becomes even more difficult with the smaller tanks. Do yourself a favor if you want to house 4 species and 10-20 fish... keep an eye on craigslist and buy a larger tank! Until then, use this 10gal to learn from and get to know the hobby alittle. Everybody here is giving you advice that will work in your favor. Stick around and dont give up. Even if your entire tank gets sick there is still hope (just ask Paladine). Just dont stick a cichlid in there to clean them up (i have thought about it myself, so its okay) but feed them feeders... not tropical fish.

And post up some pix, cause we all love pictures here!


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

the only thing i dont like is how th OP isnt even responding.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

OP may be sitting back and listening to all this,dont count him out just yet.Ill say this if they are listening.If you want that cichlid,then spend some time researching them.You have all sorts of information at your disposal.I started out with a small one gallon bowl with a betta,and within several years went on to get the bettas I really wanted,the macrostomas.Ill tell ya,they are a site to behold when swimming about.The thing is,you cant throw them in a bowl and be done with it.They need a varied diet,100%covered lid,live plants and well,I have one pair,thats two fish,in a 29 gallon,with a superfilter,lol.Why?Because I did research and found if I wanted them,I would have to accomodate them,not them accomodate me.This leads to a healthy happy tank with healthy happy fish and healthy happy plants and a very happy audience.


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

if you upgrated to a 30 gallon i believe you can have the fish you have and add a pair of one of these
1.german blue ram








2.bolivian ram








3.cockatoo apisto (my favorite i have a pair)








4.kribensis








5.key hole


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

YouTube - ‪P1090247.MOV‬‏ 

lol @ every one going ballistic because i did not listen to their advice, i dont have to if i dont want to i simply asked to see what most people do 

my friend has been raising fish his entire life and has done the same thing all his life, so who are you to tell me they will all die indefinately, i listened and i read other places but in the end i trust my friend enough to go ahead and do what i do, ill post pics when they die if u really care that much


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Well actually if you don't like what people give you as good advice and no intentions of listening to anyone, your best bet would be to find you another forum that will agree with what you have done,

Just because your friend done the same thing before you does not make it right to harm the fish the way you are doing. If you don't like our answers you are more than welcome to leave


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

who said i dont like any ones answer? 

i havent said anything and all of you assume this and that

when u ask for advice it doesnt mean u have to use it, and than 99% of u get offended rofl. i think a couple of u need to get off your high horse


and tbh the only person on here who actually helped was really legitimate in helping, to the rest of you enjoy ur perfect tanks with ur perfect fish and perfect way of life ur fish must be perfect in the perfect aquarium im jealous 

i think some of the pple giving me advice are also newbies so i dont want advice from people with no experience following the bandwagon of norms, but the first few posts were helpful so ill say that much. (if u havent guessesd yet im talking about hollycat, what a hypocrite i read a few posts from you where you went and over crowded your tank regardless of advice u were given, now u come here and preach to me ROFL)

id much rather do what i want knowing the consequences, without knowing the consequences so i know why it happened. that is the point of asking for advice


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## Paladine9169 (May 6, 2011)

Most of the advice you were given, whether from 30 year veterans, or from 2 month newbs in the hobby, come from copious amounts of RESEARCH, from hundreds, maybe thousands, of people from the hobby, as well as professional aquarium keepers. People here are more worried about the FISH you are hurting, not your feelings, or your friends ego. 

If you want to do what YOU like, and not care about your FISH, then you are right.. You can do whatever you choose. But dont expect to make friends here If you are choosing your overzealous ideas, over the well being of your fish. 

Think of it like this.. would you force your dog to live outside, in sub zero tempuratures, sleeping in its own excrement, and breathing air that is filled with noxious gases? This is what you are doing if you do not have the proper water conditions for your fish!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> i think some of the pple giving me advice are also newbies so i dont want advice from people with no experience following the bandwagon of norms, but the first few posts were helpful so ill say that much. (if u havent guessesd yet im talking about hollycat, what a hypocrite i read a few posts from you where you went and over crowded your tank regardless of advice u were given, now u come here and preach to me ROFL)


Did you actually _read_ what I posted? I over crowded my tank _before_ I came on this site. After running into trouble, I came to this site for help. I then got advice from other people I realized the mistake I had made. (Even the first few weeks on this site I still didn't get the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule was wrong and didn't think there was anything wrong with my tank, but I do now..... I even said that I made that mistake in many posts since then - so you obviously haven't been reading very closely). I don't have the money for another tank, so it stays the way it is for now. I was trying to help you not make the same mistake I made and have to go through the disappointment of losing fish.

The first post I made was simply answering the questions you asked. I only made a more negative post _after_ you bought the more delicate fish/started over stocking. So, all in all, many people gave you good advice at the beginning. There were tons of posts before mine that were great. It was _after_ you bought all the fish that people started to get "down on you."

So, lets be adults here and not go name calling. (It's not like I said you were irresponsible or a terrible fish keeper or anything). You asked for advice. We gave it. You didn't take it, so you are responsible for whatever happens. I truly hope that you have good luck and don't lose any fish.

Have a great day!!


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

*pc


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

*Rohkey*: HA! (I almost posted the pop corn guy instead of my last response!) Ah, that made me laugh!



Rohkey said:


> Yeah, I thought of getting a bristlenose...really wanted to in fact, but decided not to and went with 4 Dwarf Frogs and a handful of Ghost Shrimp instead. A few things that factored into my decision were (other than I really wanted the frogs) that the only store I found with bristlenose plecs was 45 mins away and charged $30 for them, plus I wanted to have a decent amount of plants in the aquarium and didn't want the plec to thrash around and damage them. Thanks though....maybe one day I'll get that bristlenose, they look incredibly awesome.


What?! $30?! Are they gold plated where you come from? (Lol). I got mine as a young thing and she was like $9. That sux! Hope you can find one soon at a good price! They are really fun to watch - even if the males freak me out a bit with their bristles. (Didn't even think about the plant wrecking part.... good point. Although, mine was pretty good with my plants. Each one will be different though I suppose).

And, the ADF's are definitely awesome! They each have their own personality. (I named mine after 2 t.v. people and they definitely live up to the names). Ricky (Ricky Gervais) and Carl (Carl Pilkington). Don't know if you've ever seen "Idiot Abroad", but it is hilarous! (And that's who they are named after). Scary how they are both so much like the actual people!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I have loads of bristlenose and the only plants they bother is swords. THey will rasp the algae off of them but it basically messes up the leaves, I think I am setting at over a 100 babies now and more eggs laid today.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Have you posted more pics of the babies? (The last ones were super cute and it's cool to see them get bigger).


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

Bristlenose sure are scary looking (males especially) but they do seem really cool. I think plecos are honestly my favorite fish. I do have a couple Swords in the tank but my bigger concern is that my Anubias are small and low to the gravel and there isn't a ton of room for the Plec as the Barbs like the plants and the frogs like the other hiding spots (and there isn't much gravel space since I have two large ornaments in there).

Anyways you are definitely right about the frogs having their own personalities. I have one that's an olympic swimmer and darts to the surface for air and buries himself in the gravel/hiding spot all in like 2-3 sec. The other one loves to chill under my bubbles and it can take him a good 5-10 sec to make it to the surface and sometimes I worry he'll panic and/or tire himself out. He always make it though and as soon as he gulps air he (or she) freezes and gradually sinks to the bottom, motionless and in the same 45• angle the whole way down. This one likes to creep around the bottom too, slowly scaring the shrimp away.

The shrimp are interesting fellas in their own right. A couple of the big ones seem to think they are Cherry Barbs and try to swim up and school with them until one of the Barbs looks at them funny and sends em packing. A couple also seem quite keen on my plants and look like they swallowed half a tree with the leaves inside them, while others eat the frog pellets/molted skin. I worry about the frogs eating though as this is the 2nd day and they still show no interest in flakes or frog pellets that fall right infront of them.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

"You didn't take it, so you are responsible for whatever happen"
this is contradictory to how u responded to me saying omfg u didnt listen what r u thinking.

u made me out to look like i dgaf and dont care so dont be so aggressive especially when u made a mistake urself u have no right to preach

the only reason i stopped postin was because i know people are sensitivve about fish, but when U attacked me i was insulted because u have only the knowledge that people on this site tell u, u cant possibl know from experienece becuz u are new to this like me so im disgusted by ur behavior to be honest


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Lol, the motionless floating is hilarious! (It's also hilarious when they dart back to the bottom and crash into the gravel!)

As for the frog pellets, some frogs eat them and some don't. I drop some into the tank and mine can smell them because they look for them, but they end up stuck in the gravel and the frogs can't really get to them. (Don't have enough room to put a small dish in for feeding). I don't know if they eat flake food. Their main diet is blood worm and glass worms. I thaw out 1/2 a cube every other night, and split that between the 2 frogs. I use 10 inch tweezers and dangle a clump of worms in front of them and they go nuts! (They don't see too well but can smell really well and can see shadows, so the waving of the worms helps them). The glass worms take a few swallows for them to get down because they are bigger but they looooove the blood worms! (Some ppl don't like to hand feed but I do because then I can at least be sure they are getting the main bulk of their diet). Any thing else they pick up off the bottom of the tank is a bonus.

Try the frozen foods. They are carnivorous frogs so maybe they are just jonesin' for some meat.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> "You didn't take it, so you are responsible for whatever happen"
> this is contradictory to how u responded to me saying omfg u didnt listen what r u thinking.
> 
> u made me out to look like i dgaf and dont care so dont be so aggressive especially when u made a mistake urself u have no right to preach
> ...


Nope. Not new. Had fish many times before. (Just always thought the 1 inch of fish per gallon was right, and recently found out it was wrong).

And to be honest, I'm not the only one who said anything negative, but I'm sorry if I offended you. I apologize. Hopefully we can put this all behind us and continue on this forum in a friendly manner. (I'm serious about keeping us posted! I do really wish you the best with your tank and hope every thing turns out o.k.)


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

all i can say to that was i was NOT being unfriendly to any one


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

yea you were just being unfriendly to your fish


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Okay, all that aside, what are you doing today to help your fish make it to tomorrow, next week, month,..... I understand you are severely overstocked...we all do. Now what? Do you have the experience to fix situations that probably already exists, or surely will soon? Is your friend equipped to help you? Do you have any form of testing materials?


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

allaboutfish said:


> yea you were just being unfriendly to your fish


u just cant get enough can u
that is the hippiest thing i have ever heard, do u avoid ants on the ground when u walk?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Pairanoid,you have to understand.This is a forum dedicated to the proper care of fish.When you come and ask for help,and are given advice,people think you mean to take what they say to heart.Instead,you basically said you were not going to listen and get upset at people for telling you that you are in the wrong.

Holly did make mistakes and was advised to fix it.Because of her stocking level,she has to do alot more maintenance on her tank than a normal stocked one.She found out the hard way about the poor waterquality,and a fish ended up sick with fungus from this.The thing is,she is willing to admit her mistakes and try to fix it.Ignorance is bliss I suppose you can say.But its not ignorance if you know better befor hand and do otherwise.This is cruelty,nothing less.Like placing a cat with a dog that you know for a fact is a cat killer,and say"Oh well,ima do it anyhow."If you didnt know then you didnt know.But when you do know,its not the same.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> u just cant get enough can u
> that is the hippiest thing i have ever heard, do u avoid ants on the ground when u walk?


I can't speak for him, but some of us do...I avoid causing harm to any animal whenever possible, if I know there's an ant hill around I'll walk around it/in the grass.


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

Rohkey said:


> I can't speak for him, but some of us do...I avoid causing harm to any animal whenever possible, if I know there's an ant hill around I'll walk around it/in the grass.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Hehe. Down here in Texas you best avoid the ants, especially the mounds.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

FEAR THE TEXAS ANTS!!!!!They will draw guns on you.Best give em your finest whiskey.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

i dont understand where these assumptions of me ignoring advice and being ignorant, i know the consequences but if things like this were determined from facts than maybe i would of avoided my situation

unless all of u had had fish die doing what i do dont play the preacher role on me my fish are fine right now and if something happens ill adjust, i dont usually care when pple jump on me in forums but this was especially irritating with holly, notice how i didnt reply for a while because i upset some people..should of just left it at that but some people are a little unrealistic and i have to say something, grow up

if you really do avoid stepping on ants i hope your a high level vegan hypocrite, so you dont want to hurt animals but you will eat them after they were butchered, such an almighty image you are trying to present yourself with, get real. u never swat a fly away from ur face? this is really funny i was joking about the ant avoiding and u actually said something about it


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Pairenoid, first things first. You came on here asking for needed advice before you went to buy the fish. Appropiate advice was given, you yourself chose to ignore that advice, everyone has the right to be upset with you.

Yes most people will walk around ants because usually there is more than one and even though you step on some you are taking a chance on being stung. 

Most of the comments made to you were not made as an insult but the truth. You are the only one that is coming back as a smart ***. AS it stands now this thread is locked. Your welcome to stay on the forum if you wish, but if you leave your absence won't be missed. This is a forum for learning and helping others who have interest in learning the best way to take care of their fish and have an aquarium that will sustain life and enjoy for years to come.


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