# Few questions regarding algae eaters, chipped rocks, and guppies



## srk (May 4, 2011)

I am looking at the options for algae control in my aquarium. My current options seem to be snails and algae eater fishes.

What do snails eat other than algae, i.e.- do I need to buy separate food? And do they interfere with fishes in terms of occupying space and etc? Because, my aquarium is only 10 gallons.

I have some rock chips in my aquarium that broke off from some flat rocks. These chips are not round, and have relatively sharper edge. Should that be a concern for algae eaters/ snails?

Also is it ok to put moss balls together with algae eaters?

Lastly, I have 3 neon tetra, and one red fish (cant remember the name, but they come in golden and red, about the size of guppies). I am planning to put 3 guppies- 2 female, 1 male in the aquarium. 
Here's the ad I am looking at: http://i.imgur.com/57JhK.png
This is my first ever aquarium, and I can't decide which guppies to go for. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

10 gallons isn't much to work with, not really big enough for an algae eater outside of snails You could cram a bristlenose pleco in, but they are better suited to 20g+ aquariums. 10g is big enough for an Otto but they prefer to be in groups of 5 or more. Also it is generally better to find and control the source of algae rather than going for an algae either in my opinion, although this shouldn't deter you from buying algae eaters since they are cool and often docile fish. Snails will generally not interfere with the fish and would probably require outside food, depending on much algae you have, but produce a LOT of waste. In a 10G with potentially 6 other fish, you'd have to do a lot of partial water changes and consistent cleaning of the gravel. With your first aquarium it is a lot easier to go bigger, 20g or 30g, and it would probably be best to choose a particular type of community fish (guppy or tetra) and buy 5-6 of these, and that'd be about all you can have in the tank outside of small shrimp, snails, or maybe a dwarf frog. Community fish like to be in groups of at least 6 and while you could pull off 3 tetra, 3 guppies, and that one fish, the one fish might be very withdrawn and shy. The chipped rocks shouldn't be much of a problem, they would be for loaches but not for snails, etc, in my opinion.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello srk. The best advice I can give you, is get a larger tank. A 10 G will be a ton of work to keep clean. The fish really need more swimming room and you need more room to work in. Plants also need room to grow. 

Get at least a 20 G tank and use the 10 G as a hospital tank or for sprouting aquarium plant seeds before replanting them in your new 20 G.

BBradbury


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey there! I have a 10g tank and I've got lots of critters in it! (You can see the list in my signature). I had an Albino Bushy Nosed Pleco in my tank for a long time and she did a great job eating algae. The only reason I traded her in was because she attacked my African Dwarf Frogs when I got them - she was territorial and didn't like that they were in her space. (ABNP top out at around 2 - 3 inches, so they are great in a 10g, but can get territorial, so try not to have too many other bottom dwellers if you get one. She didn't seem to care about the shrimp though).

When I traded her in, I got 3 Otto Cats. I've only had them for about a week now, but they are eating algae.

I've also got a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimp. They eat algae and left over fish food. They're doing a great job keeping the tank clean.

Tomorrow, I'm getting 2 Zebra Nerite Snails, more for looks than for algae control. Zebra snails need brackish water to breed, so they are great because you won't end up with a snail explosion in your tank. Be careful with snails! Snails like Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS) and rams horn snails and pond snails breed like mad - especially if you overfeed your tank. They eat plants too. Apple/mystery snails are great, but they do eat plants as well as algae and they can get to be the size of a fist, so they aren't great for 10g tanks. Assassin snails are for eating other snails.... you can get one, but they only eat algae if there is nothing else to eat, as they are carnivores. Nerites are really the way to go, since they won't populate your tank. They may lay eggs, but they can't hatch without brackish water. There are many different types of Nerites: Zebra, Virgin, Olive, Onion, Horned. It's harder to get some than it is others, depending on where you are. (Ex: Where I am in Canada, it's hard to find the Olive Nerites, where as many places in the States have trouble getting the Zebras).

Since I have so many algae eating critters, I put 1/2 to 1 full algae wafer in the tank each night, (after lights out so the guppies don't eat it). I break it up into pieces and spread it around. I also give the shrimp little shrimp pellets every few days. I am going to start giving my Otto Cats some blanched Zuchinni every few days, just to supplement their diet and make sure they and the snails are getting enough food. (It's really easy to do, and makes sure every one is well fed).

I've got 2 moss balls in my tank and the Otto's don't touch them. The Shrimp eat all the little microbes and bits of food out of them, but they don't eat the plant itself. Zebra Nerites don't eat plants either. (Didn't have them when I had the pleco, but as far as I know, plecos won't eat plants).

I would LOVE to set up my 65g tall tank, but don't have the space. The above posters are right, in that if you don't already have your tank, go with at least a 20g. If you have bought the tank and it's a 10g, there is still lots you can do with it.

Welcome again, and keep us posted with pics and let us know how your fish are doing!


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## Totem44 (Mar 15, 2011)

Holly. How long have you been running your aquarium with that many fish/shrimp/frogs?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Totem44: I've had the guppies, cardinals and betta in there for quite a while now. The shrimp are about 6 weeks and the frogs are about 5 or 6 weeks now. I had the ABNP in with the guppies, cardinals and betta, but just traded her for the 3 Ottos. The 2 snails will be coming tomorrow. (The LFS guys, and the internet sites I've checked out, have all said that shrimp and snails have a low bio-load so they are fine).

My water parameters are perfect, except my Nitrates are a little high (it comes directly from our water source), and I have live plants, plus and extra mini filter with Nitra-zorb running to help bring them down.

The people at Big Al's said that the amount of animals I have in the tank is fine, because I keep up with water changes and filter maintenance.

It's 1 inch of fish per gallon right? (or am I wrong on that?) Then, I figured the shrimp and snails aren't that much more..... so it should be fine. I've seen people on this site who have way more fish per gallon in their tanks and they seem to be ok.... am I doing something wrong? (You've got me freaked out here, lol).


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## srk (May 4, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys.

I wish I knew about the inverse law of aquarium before buying one. From outside it seems space is proportional to headache. I guess most people realize the reality once they dive in. Unfortunately I am lacking both space and budget to get another (bigger) aquarium at the moment and set it all up.

Hey holly12, I am from Canada too. Also, thanks for your advice. I have (at least) a week to digest it all and find the suppliers of what critters or fishes I want, since I only put my 4 fishes in the tank today, and they probably haven't deposited enough algae yet.
Though at this point I am considering algae eaters purely for aesthetic purposes, as well as using wafers to feed them. They will be like cats in the aquariums. Also, I did some googling right after starting the thread, and it seems otto's are probably the best bet if I go for bottom feeder fishes. But, ya, your aquarium ecosystem is pretty impressive. Not sure if many can maintain that.
Based on your system, here is what I am planning to get in addition to my 4 fishes, given I can find the suppliers:
- moss balls
- male guppies
- Oto cats
- male african dwarf frogs
- red cherry shrimp
- small snails

I should note that out of the 4 fishes, 3 are very tiny neon tetras (max 1", and quite narrow), and the other one is that red fish (max 1.5", about the size of male guppies in fatness, I am calling it Mr. X until I go back to the pet store and learn its name). So, hypothetically, they should be comfortable in the space.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

As long as you remember that fish and snails cannot be your primary control source for algae. You need to control that by selective use of your light - mostly.

How long has your aquarium been setup? Based on what you already have, I wouldn't put more than 2-3 more fish in there, if that. Don't look at what anyone else is doing. A 10g tank that has it's limits pushed daily is not a good thing. High nitrate values will eventually kill your fish or other issues like stress. Overcrowded situations, and lets be honest...overcrowded in a 10g tank is near instantaneous, can cause fish stress as well. Stress leads to a weak immune system, weak immune system means disease and the the whole tank explodes. Extra filtration or plants cannot cure that.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Remember that algae cannot grow without nutrients and light. So I simply use plants to consume the nutrients and should algae show up kill the lights for a few days and then resume with less duration lighting so the algae stays away.

Other then snails that come in on plants I use no algae eaters.


my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I got my moss balls from Petsmart, and all the rest of my animals (frogs, fish, shrimp) and plants are from Big Als.

Once the fish in my tank, (betta, 2 guppies and 2 cardinals) "pass on", I probably won't be putting more fish in. (If I did, it would be 1 or 2 small ones at most.) I realize that just the 2 small frogs, 1 flower shrimp, RCS, 3 snails and 3 otos are a lot in the tank, but the bio-load put out by shrimp and snails is really minimal. That's the only reason I have so much in my tank. I'm finding that inverts and frogs are way more fun to watch than fish are... although I love my little oto cats! They are cute. Like I said, if the other fish died, I may put 1 or two really small fish in the tank, but nothing that's going to put a ton of stress on the bio-load.

I wish I could help the high nitrate values more, but I can't. It's coming directly from our water source. The rest of my water params' are perfect. If we used water from in town or my husbands work, it's all been through a softener and it's been treated, so that's even worse, (especially for inverts'). So, I'm using plants and nitra-zorb to help bring the levels down. There's not much else I can do. Every one in the tank seems happy. It's been running for a year (in June). The shrimp and frogs are only about 6 weeks in the tank, but the tank is established.

I'll gladly take any tips or advice on how to bring Nitrate values down! I want my animals to be as happy and healthy as possible.


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## srk (May 4, 2011)

Thanks guys. After reviewing everything it seems moss balls are my best bet for algae control. Its not like I have any algae growing there yet.

This is my first aquarium. The fishes have been there for 2 days now. Alive!
And I can say for sure that they are just as interesting to watch as watching numerous fishes in the pet store.

I am gonna take my time, take it slowly, and try to gain as much knowledge as possible, and most of all try my best to keep everything alive and well.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

holly12 said:


> I'll gladly take any tips or advice on how to bring Nitrate values down! I want my animals to be as happy and healthy as possible.


Not having so many animals in a 10g aquarium will go a long way towards achieving that goal; your tank is what I would delicately label as 'very overstocked'.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Agreed,Holly.That may be why the betta has a white spot as well.I dont think its ich or fungus if its raised.It could very easily be from the nitrates.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

The betta is out of the 10g tank now. So, there are 7 fish in the tank. (2 guppies, 3 small ottos, 2 small cardinals). There are 2 adf's.... that's 9 critters..... the internet and LFS all say the shrimp and snails really don't add much to the bio load so they don't really count..... so I don't get how the tank is over stocked........ is there something someone isn't telling me? (I'm not trying to be 'smart' or anything - I'm really confused! Half my sources say the amount in the tank is fine, and half say it's too much.....) If shrimp and snails don't really count, how is 9 (most of them really small) animals in a 10 too much?

I tested the water last night, and the Nitrates are under control now and way down in the safe zone. I'm really excited about that, as I know they aren't safe for any animal. I'll keep going with the live plants and Nitra-zorb, and I definitely won't add any more animals.


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## srk (May 4, 2011)

holly12 said:


> The betta is out of the 10g tank now. So, there are 7 fish in the tank. (2 guppies, 3 small ottos, 2 small cardinals). There are 2 adf's.... that's 9 critters..... the internet and LFS all say the shrimp and snails really don't add much to the bio load so they don't really count..... so I don't get how the tank is over stocked........ is there something someone isn't telling me? (I'm not trying to be 'smart' or anything - I'm really confused! Half my sources say the amount in the tank is fine, and half say it's too much.....) If shrimp and snails don't really count, how is 9 (most of them really small) animals in a 10 too much?
> 
> I tested the water last night, and the Nitrates are under control now and way down in the safe zone. I'm really excited about that, as I know they aren't safe for any animal. I'll keep going with the live plants and Nitra-zorb, and I definitely won't add any more animals.


I am gonna take a shot in the dark about this. I think calculating bio-load for shrimps and snails is not like (x*0), but (x*n), where n is the population and x is the amount of bio-load. That is guessing it is a linear relationship. It could also be exponential. Therefore, may be a small amount don't count, but larger population may have a good amount of bio-load.
Good to hear that your nitrite, nitrate levels are in control. As long as everything is stable don't worry about it much. Watch out for rebel shrimps though. You don't want a revolution in your aquarium.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

holly12 said:


> The betta is out of the 10g tank now. So, there are 7 fish in the tank. (2 guppies, 3 small ottos, 2 small cardinals). There are 2 adf's.... that's 9 critters..... the internet and LFS all say the shrimp and snails really don't add much to the bio load so they don't really count..... so I don't get how the tank is over stocked........ is there something someone isn't telling me? (I'm not trying to be 'smart' or anything - I'm really confused! Half my sources say the amount in the tank is fine, and half say it's too much.....) If shrimp and snails don't really count, how is 9 (most of them really small) animals in a 10 too much?
> 
> I tested the water last night, and the Nitrates are under control now and way down in the safe zone. I'm really excited about that, as I know they aren't safe for any animal. I'll keep going with the live plants and Nitra-zorb, and I definitely won't add any more animals.


_IF_ you go by the rule of 1 inch per gallon, you got close to 8 inches to play with. Yes, I know your tank is a 10 gallon, but how much water do you think is in there? It's 10 gallons to the top of the rim, subtract the water displaced by gravel and anything else you have and there really isn't that much water in the tank. So, if you gave all you fish one inch (more than likely more than that) you are right there at the limit and then you throw in 2 frogs. I doesn't really matter what you've read...basically if it eats, it poops. If it does that then it does affect your bio-load. Personally, I don't like the 1" per gallon guide because it leaves out a lot of things and it does not apply to every fish. It is some place to start however. Stress will be the biggest factor in a small tank in my opnion. Take into account you have to fight nitrates in your water, combined with a stocked tank too small for what's in it and it is just a bomb waiting to go off. When I see how small my 20g is, I just can't imagine how small a 10g must look. Never really seen one to be honest. But, I would think that 3-4 small adult fish would keep me happy in that sized tank.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks for the info'! (re: displaced water due to gravel and such). Didn't think about that.

Well then, I definitely won't be adding more fish when the current ones pass on, and I won't be adding more animals in the mean time. My Nitrates are normal now, so that is going to help a bit I suppose. And, my RCS don't seem interested in breeding, so I don't have to worry about a population explosion either. Nerites won't breed in fresh water, so I won't have baby snails and my ADF's are both males, my flower shrimp is the only one in the tank and they aren't hermaphrodites.... I think I'm good for "birth control" in the tank, lol.

And SRK: The idea of rebel shrimp starting a revolution gave me a good laugh! (I can just imagine them forming ranks and marching up out of the tank to "have a word with me".)


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