# Swordtail confusion



## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey folks. I'm having a bit an issue with my swordtails. I can't keep them alive. All the other fish in the tank are thriving, but for some reason I just can't keep swords alive. I had a male marigold, a male pineapple and a female pineapple all lost within a month and a half of introducing them. Last water test showed 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate. I also had a bumblebee platy last only two days. Anyone know why I'm struggling with this species?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

males pick on each other.I have (had since moved) 4 males with 8 females in a 40 breeder loaded with live plants and the most dominate male would have killed the least if I hadn't moved one.The least dominate started showing mouth infection(due to poor water{25% change DAILY!} or stress).I moved all but him and one other male(who now harrasses ,instead of being harrassed).My dominate male is largest and tough,the others aren't so bad(around him).Females don't bother each other as much.What's your PH as swords prefer med/hard water.Platies will also be harrassed by swords(live bearing,similar appearance{can be interbred}).


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

I actually didn't check my ph on my last water test unfortunately. Weird thing is both the male and female pineapple died the same way. I could tell something was wrong but I still learning diagnosis of diseases. The male was very reclusive, looked like he had clamped fins and barely moved. He died, then the marigold died but he showed no signs of disease, them the female pineapple started to act the same way. I have a ten gallon that I eventually want to use as a hospital tank but its currently home to a problem fish I had to isolate until I can find him a new home. It bothers me cause they were the brightest, most beautiful pineapples I ever saw for sale.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

what size is tank they were in?Did they plants or decorations to help them hide from each other?


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

They were in a 36 gallon. I wouldn't say it's heavily planted but I have a good amount of plants, rocks, and driftwood or them to hide or get away for each other.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

sounds good so far? What other fish are in the tank?


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

Basic community fish. Zebras, mollies, cherry barbs, dwarf gouramis, a gold and opal gourami, rainbowfish, 1 remaining platy, a recently added school of cardinal tetras, and a German ram.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Decent fish , I have many of them myself.The mollies or gouramis could be harrassing others.Mollies just because there live bearers also and can get large(larger than swords).How big are you mollies(how many males)? Gouramis have turned out to be pretty tough fish(and fast), in community tanks(although I'd think they'd chase each other most).Diagnosing desease can be diffacult.Not wise to medicate improperly.Often "new fish" although looking healthy bring in (are active carriers without visable signs YET) desease.Clamp fin is most common with ich and velvet.One med (rid ich/or the like) can treat both.Both deseases kill quickly unstopped.Not truely occuring in only one desease ,sometimes clamp fin can be parasite related also.If your ram and cards last I'd say your water is good(they are the most sensative fish you have now).Look for ich or other symptoms.Don't use salt!


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

I really appreciate your help, and you're exactly right. My gold gourami chases the opal quite often but leaves everyone else alone. The mollies are two males, maybe 2 to 2 and a half inches. The cardinals have been in the tank about 2 weeks now and the ram has been in for about a mont and a half. I was worried about getting one but he's very active and is one of the first to the surface when he thinks there's food coming. I'll keep an eye out for anyone else showing those signs or having ich spots.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

_Basic community fish. Zebras, mollies, cherry barbs, dwarf gouramis, a gold and opal gourami, rainbowfish, 1 remaining platy, a recently added school of cardinal tetras, and a German ram._

I think your clue is what isn't dying - all soft water fish. If your swordtail clamped, shimmied and dropped low, it may have died of complications from softer water. 
Xiphophorus, the Genus of both swords and platies is from Mexico, Belize and Guatemala, from limestone streams. The water is really hard, and adaptation has really tuned these fish to need a high mineral content. In soft water, swords, platies (and mollies, from the same habitat) will begin to 'wobble'. Then their tails will swish back and forth. As they lose the ability to maintain the balance between water inside and outside their bodies, they may pinecone a little (the scales stick up = kidney failure) and their scales will lose their shine. The fish can get sudden fungus attacks, or be prone to Ich or velvet parasitic attacks.
It happens, and it's common. I can't say for sure that it's the problem, but if nothing happens to the softwater fish but the hardwater fish die, then I'm thinking the cause may well be in your water.


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds very plausible to me navigator. I appreciate the input. If I change the ph, will all my other fish suffer because of it?


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It has nothing to do with pH. It is the minerals in the water. If you raise them (through cichlid salts, epsom salts, the addition of crushed oyster shells to the filter, the addition of limestone, etc) the other fish will react negatively in turn. 
The Amazon rainforest region is very poor in minerals, and the water has very low hardness. So those fish have evolved mechanisms to flourish in mineral shortages, and dislike hard water.
It is basic incompatability.
I get 60ppm GH, and 6.6-6.8 pH tapwater. It is great for rainforest fish, and they do fine. I really like livebearers, and keep many wild-types. They can't be in the same tanks as the rainforest tetras, killies and cichlids, as I harden livebearer water to around 180 ppm with a homemade mineral mix. It brings the pH up to around 7.8 - very much like what I caught livebearers in in Guatemala. I figured I'd aim for that. 
I have hardwater and softwater tanks, but the two types of fish are incompatible with each other in the same tank. If you have water of medium hardness, no problem, but if yours is soft like mine, then it's either or. Fish in the wrong water sicken - you can't swim against millions of years of evolution.


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## Spicy MacHaggis (Oct 2, 2012)

I guess I still have much to learn. Sucks cause I really dig swords. Thanks for the info though. I much appreciate the help.


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