# ph - kh problems



## jbhillman

ph is 7.96 KH is 13.7 Calcium is 410. Will raising calcium to 450 increase ph?*c/p*


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## LegitFish

No, unless you are using a calcium reactor. Liquid calcium supplement will not raise the alkalinity.


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## jbhillman

LegitFish said:


> No, unless you are using a calcium reactor. Liquid calcium supplement will not raise the alkalinity.


I don't want to raise alkalinity. It is already at 4.9. That is why DKH is at 13.7.
I know the other issue that can cause low ph is excess Co2 in the air, but I can't stop breathing so there isn't anything I can do about that.
How do I raise ph without raising alkalinity into even more unacceptable levels. No fish in the tank right now.


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## Reefing Madness

All you need to know. The answer you are looking for is in this link.
Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes & Magnesium in Aquariums; Mineral Ions, Cations


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## NeonShark666

Yes, if yoiu increase Cakcium with Calcium Carbonate (limestone, crushed cioral), no if you increase Calcium wih a salt like Calcium Chloride or Calcium Sulphate. There are commercial additives, like Kent Superbuffer=dKH+, with instuctions that will tell you how much they will raise the ph. This one will raise the ph between 8.0 and 8.3.


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## jbhillman

NeonShark666 said:


> Yes, if yoiu increase Cakcium with Calcium Carbonate (limestone, crushed cioral), no if you increase Calcium wih a salt like Calcium Chloride or Calcium Sulphate. There are commercial additives, like Kent Superbuffer=dKH+, with instuctions that will tell you how much they will raise the ph. This one will raise the ph between 8.0 and 8.3.


Using the Kent Superbuffer is why my dKH and Alkalinity readings are so high.


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## jbhillman

Reefing Madness said:


> All you need to know. The answer you are looking for is in this link.
> Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes & Magnesium in Aquariums; Mineral Ions, Cations


Not really. This article says the absoulute minimum is 240 ppm (13.44 dKH)

According to the documentation that came with my Salifert KH/Alkalinity test natural seawater has a kh of 7-8 dkh. That corresponds to 142 ppm. (8 X 17.85= 142)

A chart on liveaquaria.com site says the marine aquarium should be 8 - 12 dkh
(142ppm - 214 ppm)



So what number is correct? According to what I am reading, my ph should be in the 8.2 range but instead it is in the 7.5 range.

I know that Co2 buildup reduces ph. Currently I have no fish. I have 2 750gph power heads circulating the water in the tank, plus the pump in my sump is returning 360 gph to the tank. The return line is corrugated so the water is 'stirred' coming from the overflow to the point that the bubbles coming out of the end of the submerged return line are creating a 'protein skimmer' effect and I have to remove foam from that part of my sump on a daily basis. I have a hard time believing that I do not have enough circulation for proper gas exchange.

I have a FOWLR tank but am trying to maintain levels as if it were a reef tank since I will be going that way as soon as I learn how. A FOWLR tank is just not that nice to look at.

I recently replaced my largest chunk (20 pounds) of base rock with a 25 pound chunk of Tonga live rock.


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## Reefing Madness

jbhillman said:


> Not really. This article says the absoulute minimum is 240 ppm (13.44 dKH)
> 
> According to the documentation that came with my Salifert KH/Alkalinity test natural seawater has a kh of 7-8 dkh. That corresponds to 142 ppm. (8 X 17.85= 142)
> 
> A chart on liveaquaria.com site says the marine aquarium should be 8 - 12 dkh
> (142ppm - 214 ppm)
> 
> 
> 
> So what number is correct? According to what I am reading, my ph should be in the 8.2 range but instead it is in the 7.5 range.
> 
> I know that Co2 buildup reduces ph. Currently I have no fish. I have 2 750gph power heads circulating the water in the tank, plus the pump in my sump is returning 360 gph to the tank. The return line is corrugated so the water is 'stirred' coming from the overflow to the point that the bubbles coming out of the end of the submerged return line are creating a 'protein skimmer' effect and I have to remove foam from that part of my sump on a daily basis. I have a hard time believing that I do not have enough circulation for proper gas exchange.
> 
> I have a FOWLR tank but am trying to maintain levels as if it were a reef tank since I will be going that way as soon as I learn how. A FOWLR tank is just not that nice to look at.
> 
> I recently replaced my largest chunk (20 pounds) of base rock with a 25 pound chunk of Tonga live rock.


7ph is neutral. Most have it around 8. Thats seawater range.
The range you noted in the 8-12 dkh really is correct, its in that range. Most keep it around 9, but you really can keep it in that area with no issues. 
Now if your going Reef, you need to start checking your Magnesium levels now and ALK levels.
*Baking Soda (NaHCO3): Is essentially just Sodium bicarbonate and will raise KH, but it can easily be overdosed and does not maintain as a stable a KH or pH
*Sea Chem Marine Buffer: This is multi-ingredient product that not only raises KH and pH, but also GH as it is very balanced in its mineral balance. Due to the ingredients contained there in it will NOT raise pH past 8.3-8.4 even when over dosed unlike Baking Soda. When use in FW, small amounts should be used so as to slowly raised pH and KH as if overdosed you can raise pH to 8.3.
*SeaChem Malawi/Victoria Buffer: This is the same product as Marine Buffer and will also not raise pH past 8.4, even when overdosed (as with Marine Buffer, I have used this product for many freshwater applications such as Livebearers).
*SeaChem Tanganyika Buffer: again a similar product to Marine and Malawi Buffer with additional necessary mineral, however it will raise pH to 9.0 when used full strength.
*SeaChem Alkaline Buffer Buffer: This is more straight forward KH buffer that has less added minerals when these are not desired (often by planted or softwater aquarium keepers). Alkaline Buffer will continue to increase pH to 7.8 (or as high as 8.5 with correct usage), however it still is more stable and moves pH much less dramatically than baking soda making it still a much better choice in FW.
Alkaline Buffer is the preferred method (combined with Acid Buffer) for use with stabilizing Reverse Osmosis Water in lower pH/soft water aquariums. Please see the Acid/Alkaline Buffer Chart in the Low PH Buffers Section for correct ratios.


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## jbhillman

Reefing Madness said:


> 7ph is neutral. Most have it around 8. Thats seawater range.
> The range you noted in the 8-12 dkh really is correct, its in that range. Most keep it around 9, but you really can keep it in that area with no issues.
> Now if your going Reef, you need to start checking your Magnesium levels now and ALK levels.
> *Baking Soda (NaHCO3): Is essentially just Sodium bicarbonate and will raise KH, but it can easily be overdosed and does not maintain as a stable a KH or pH
> *Sea Chem Marine Buffer: This is multi-ingredient product that not only raises KH and pH, but also GH as it is very balanced in its mineral balance. Due to the ingredients contained there in it will NOT raise pH past 8.3-8.4 even when over dosed unlike Baking Soda. When use in FW, small amounts should be used so as to slowly raised pH and KH as if overdosed you can raise pH to 8.3.
> *SeaChem Malawi/Victoria Buffer: This is the same product as Marine Buffer and will also not raise pH past 8.4, even when overdosed (as with Marine Buffer, I have used this product for many freshwater applications such as Livebearers).
> *SeaChem Tanganyika Buffer: again a similar product to Marine and Malawi Buffer with additional necessary mineral, however it will raise pH to 9.0 when used full strength.
> *SeaChem Alkaline Buffer Buffer: This is more straight forward KH buffer that has less added minerals when these are not desired (often by planted or softwater aquarium keepers). Alkaline Buffer will continue to increase pH to 7.8 (or as high as 8.5 with correct usage), however it still is more stable and moves pH much less dramatically than baking soda making it still a much better choice in FW.
> Alkaline Buffer is the preferred method (combined with Acid Buffer) for use with stabilizing Reverse Osmosis Water in lower pH/soft water aquariums. Please see the Acid/Alkaline Buffer Chart in the Low PH Buffers Section for correct ratios.


 I read all of that and did not find the answer I need. My ALK is 4.9 meq/l That is higher than should be necessary to maintain a ph in the 8.0-8.2 range, yet my ph stay in the 7.5 to 7.9 range.
I am beginning to think that my dKH/ALK test kit is giving me inaccurate readings in spite of the fact that it is made by Salifert.


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## LegitFish

Take your water to a LFS and have them test it for you...I once had a problem where my test kit was way inaccurate. Take your test kit with you and have them try too...


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## Reefing Madness

LegitFish said:


> Take your water to a LFS and have them test it for you...I once had a problem where my test kit was way inaccurate. Take your test kit with you and have them try too...


*i/a*


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## jbhillman

LegitFish said:


> Take your water to a LFS and have them test it for you...I once had a problem where my test kit was way inaccurate. Take your test kit with you and have them try too...


I don't have one within driving range that I trust anymore. The last guy told me my fish all died because my ph was 7.0. He then sold me the Kent Superbuffer dKH and the next sample my PH was still low but my alkalinity was way to high and tried to sell me a different chemical. He was supposed to have 27 years experience with saltwater.


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## Reefing Madness

jbhillman said:


> I don't have one within driving range that I trust anymore. The last guy told me my fish all died because my ph was 7.0. He then sold me the Kent Superbuffer dKH and the next sample my PH was still low but my alkalinity was way to high and tried to sell me a different chemical. He was supposed to have 27 years experience with saltwater.


*J/D* But what does experience got to do with wanting to make a buck or 2? Which is what they are in business for.


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## jbhillman

If the salesman uses his claim of experience to gain your trust just so he can sell you something you don't need, then I have a problem with that salesman, and that store.


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## beaslbob

jbhillman said:


> ph is 7.96 KH is 13.7 Calcium is 410. Will raising calcium to 450 increase ph?*c/p*


Nope!!!

But adding algae like macros will rasie the pH by consuming carbon dioxide.

IMHO you should also always measure pH just before light out.

my .02


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## Aquatic Castle

The instructions on seachem reef buffer state that you need check your ratio of magnesium to calcium if your KH is high and your PH is low. You can fix it by a water change or by additives. 

You can go up to 6 meq/L 

Here is what it says, 

alkalinity should not exceed 6meq/L. If an alkalinity of 6 meq/L has been reached and a ph of at least 8.2 hasn't been reached, then the system is not ironically balanced. To restore ionic balance, perform a water change or adjust the magnesium and calcium levels to approximately 3:1 Mg:Ca. Calcium does not need to exceed 400 mg/L


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