# Cloudy Water



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

My tank water is a bit cloudy and I don't know why.

My water readings are as follows:

Nitrate: 0 (mg/L)
Nitrite: 0 (mg/L)
Hardness: Around 50 ppm
Chlorine: 0 (mg/L)
Alkalinity: Around 10 ppm (How do you raise alkalinity in a tank?)
pH: Between 6.2 and 6.8
Ammonia: 0

I've attached photos. The cloudiness doesn't show exactly like it does in person, in the photos, but any ideas?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

How long has your tank had fish in it? Is it fully cycled?

Why is there a range for your ph? I'm guessing you're using strips? With the somewhat expensive fish you have in your tank, I would invest in better testing supplies. Liquid test are much more accurate.

Why do you want to raise your alkalinity?


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> How long has your tank had fish in it? Is it fully cycled?
> 
> Why is there a range for your ph? I'm guessing you're using strips? With the somewhat expensive fish you have in your tank, I would invest in better testing supplies. Liquid test are much more accurate.
> 
> Why do you want to raise your alkalinity?


Yes, I believe the tank is fully cycled. I had my last trace of nitrites on Tuesday (12/7). The nitrites have been testing 0 every day since. I've had 9 fish in the tank the since October. I added 3 yesterday (2 cichlids and a pleco). I figured it was safe since the cycle was over.

Yes I am using strips and the color is between those 2 bench marks on the strip. I do plan on buying the API test kit, I just wanted to use up the strips I had first (since I bought them before I found out about API).

About the alkalinity, the color chart for the test strips said 120-180 is ideal for a tank, and mine is much lower (about 10). So I was thinking it needed to be higher?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

How long has your tank had fish in it? How many weeks?

My experience with strips...read nitrites out of my tap....tested with liquid test kit and it was negative. If you plan to buy the liquid test kit eventually, buy it now and compare test results. Then you'll see why you should throw them out.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

8 weeks with fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

From the pics it doesn't look that bad to me. You could try putting in a fresh carbon and see if it will clear it up. A water clarity product may work, but I've had limited success with them.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

I changed the carbon filters yesteday. 

I'll just keep my eye on it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Adding the new fish possibly could have caused it. When was the last time you did a water change?


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

I did a 1/4 water change yesterday before adding the new fish.

After making this thread today I did another water change (about 1/2) and the water looks improved. I'll try another change tomorrow and see if it keeps improving.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Will probably clear on it's own.


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## Kaosu (Nov 13, 2010)

you probably added to much of a bio load with that many fish going in to a new tank, so it is probably cycling again.


> Nitrate: 0 (mg/L)
> *Nitrite: 0 (mg/L)*
> Hardness: Around 50 ppm
> Chlorine: 0 (mg/L)
> ...


means your tank is cycling again

keep up with water changed and it will level every thing out.

Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Kaosu said:


> you probably added to much of a bio load with that many fish going in to a new tank, so it is probably cycling again.
> [/url]


Adding 3 will make it cycle again?? Everyone said only add a few per week...I thought 3 would be considered "a few"?


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## Kaosu (Nov 13, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> Adding 3 will make it cycle again?? Everyone said only add a few per week...I thought 3 would be considered "a few"?


didnt see where you had said about just adding 3, but with your water readings i would say you are cycling again.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Kill the lights and stop adding food for a few days. It should clear nicely

my .02


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you get ammonia spikes from adding too many, and not saying that is what happened, they usually pass in a day or two providing everything else is normal.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

Do you have live plants? I noticed your nitrates are 0. I'm guessing this is because your test strips are inaccurate since you should definitely have some nitrates if you've already cycled. The only way I know to get rid of them is with live plants or water changes (and it would take a lot of water changing to get to 0).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just another reason to NOT use strips.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

No live plants - and yes I am done with the strips. When I tested on Saturday night, after adding the new fish, I used my last one. So sometime today I will pick up a new testing kit.

And I probably do have nitrates, with those strips sometimes the colors are so close together it's hard to see. But I'll give a more accurate update when I get another testing kit.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The API nitrate kit could take you a little to get down - the process. Be very particular with the instructions. Just that one test. It's a PITA to conduct.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

marmstrong said:


> I changed the carbon filters yesteday.


You changed them completely as in put in new cartridges? If so, there in lies your issue.

New Filter Media + Added Fish = mini cycle

Perfectly normal as it's a bacterial bloom. The tank is trying to catch back up with your bioload. It will go away in a short period of time.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Ok my friendly Aquarium Forum pals... 

I bought my first API master test kit today. Results are below:

Ammonia: 0.25 ppm (it may actually be somewhere between 0 and 0.25 - not exactly yellow but not exactly as green as the next benchmark)

Nitrites: 0 ppm

Nitrates: 0 ppm (I made sure I followed the instructions explicitly on inverting the tube and shaking for the appropriate amount of time per additive)


So what does this tell us? I am also concerned b/c yesterday I noticed that my Blood Parrot appears to be forming some blackish areas on his fins (not on his body yet). And I am worried about Black Spot Disease. However I read that is from poor water conditions...and my water appears to be ok from these readings, right?


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Oh also, I read in the booklet that these tests are for freshwater aquariums that have salt added. Am I supposed to be adding salt to my tank? Because I haven't...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can if your fish tolerate it, but you don't have to.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> Nitrates: 0 ppm (I made sure I followed the instructions explicitly on inverting the tube and shaking for the appropriate amount of time per additive)


This is very odd for an established tank with no plants. There should be SOME buildup of nitrates in the tank. I know you read carefully and did it per instructions, but I'm wondering if some small detail got missed. Did you shake the bottle of nitrate test solution #2 before adding it to the test tube?

The non-zero ammonia is the clue that you're going through a mini-cycle.. meaning there is more ammonia to convert now, and the bacteria colonies are growing to consume it faster. It should clear up soon. If you're worried for your fish, stop feeding them a few days so they wont produce quite as much waste while the bacteria builds up.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

Out of curiosity, what water conditioner do you use? Mine includes some additives that are supposed to help with the slime coating on the fish and that ends up adding 5 ppm nitrates to my water before it even gets in the tank.

Also, maybe you could tell us a little about your tank maintenance. How often have you been cleaning/replacing things like gravel, filter sponges, etc. Sometimes too much cleaning/replacing during the cycle can slow it down.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

mfgann said:


> This is very odd for an established tank with no plants. There should be SOME buildup of nitrates in the tank. I know you read carefully and did it per instructions, but I'm wondering if some small detail got missed. Did you shake the bottle of nitrate test solution #2 before adding it to the test tube?
> 
> The non-zero ammonia is the clue that you're going through a mini-cycle.. meaning there is more ammonia to convert now, and the bacteria colonies are growing to consume it faster. It should clear up soon. If you're worried for your fish, stop feeding them a few days so they wont produce quite as much waste while the bacteria builds up.


I don't know if this will shed any light on anything, but the water smells! It's almost a stagnant smell. I can even smell it with the hood shut...granted its open in the back for the power filter and heater, but still...


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Sounds like a typical fish tank smell to me. Active carbon will remove the odors.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

PolymerTim said:


> Out of curiosity, what water conditioner do you use? Mine includes some additives that are supposed to help with the slime coating on the fish and that ends up adding 5 ppm nitrates to my water before it even gets in the tank.
> 
> Also, maybe you could tell us a little about your tank maintenance. How often have you been cleaning/replacing things like gravel, filter sponges, etc. Sometimes too much cleaning/replacing during the cycle can slow it down.


I use Prime to condition the water. In the past, before I bought Prime, I used NutraFin AquaPlus.

When the tank was cycling I was changing the water a lot to try to get the ammonia, and then nitrite levels down to an acceptable level (I admittedly was probably overfeeding and causing myself this problem). Water changes were 2-3 times a week. Since the tank has leveled out, I've had lessened to 1 water change per week. Although, with the cloudiness issue, I have did 2 last week (a 25% and then a 50%).

I don't really have a schedule for cleaning the gravel, but I'd say at least once every two weeks when I would do a large water change, I would clean the gravel. The most recent was on Saturday (12/12) when I put in some new objects in my tank. While I had most everything out of the tank, it was an easy opportunity to clean the gravel.

I change the carbon filters whenever the little timer that comes with them tells me to. I start a new timer when I put in new cartridges and when it turns red, I replace.

I want to stop feeding for a few days and see what happens, but I forgot that we bought new brine shimp cubes (which are huge, by the way) and I forgot that my boyfriend is a 3 year old. So after I explicitly said I was going to hold off on feeding the fish for a few days, he went and fed them a shrimp cube today while I was at work. You know, b/c he HAD to see if they liked it. I was so mad! Anyways, I think I made my point clear this time, so no more food for a few days.

Any tips on a good cleaning/feeding schedule would be appreciated.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would vacuum half the gravel one week and the other half on the opposite week....never too much maintenance at once unless a problem has occurred. Be mindful of filter work and keep in mind when you remove something from it that isn't going back you're affecting your Bio filter.

I chuckle at the 3yr old comment......


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

When you completely replace the cartridges, you are effectively removing a large part of your BB (beneficial bacteria). The tank will need to catch back up with the current stocking levels which will cause a mini cycle. Sometimes you will obviously notice when this happens as you will get the white cloudy water. Some mini's go undetected.

When you do a water change, take the cartridges and rinse them out in the old tank water. If you're not on city water that is chemically treated, you have other options but we'll leave that for another day. ;o)

Keep rinsing them after every water change until they seem to start falling apart. That's when it's time to change them. If your filter is the kind that has two cartridges, only replace one at a time. Usually a week apart is a good period.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm definitely taking notes!


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Another quick question - once I get my water chemistry correct. How often are water changes recommended for my size tank with the fish I have?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

As I understand it

you use prime

and your tank smells.


Should be enough said.


my .02


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> As I understand it
> 
> you use prime
> 
> ...


LOL, good point.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I'd recommend a weekly 35-50% water change. Your fish will love you for it.


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Did another test today:

Ammonia: 0.25 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrate: Between 0 ppm and 5.0 ppm (Not yellow, but not quite that orange either)

Does this sound more on target? And why do the black spots continue to plague my Blood Parrot?  Should I be treating him for sickness?

Also how often do you feed your fish, and how much? What would you recommend for my lot?


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## Brando (Oct 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> As I understand it
> 
> you use prime
> 
> ...


What does this imply..prime is not good to use?
What is the option?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Brando said:


> What does this imply..prime is not good to use?
> What is the option?


Prime is the most highly recommend decholorinator. Very good to use even if you don't have city water.

It also does smell very bad. However, you don't smell it after it has been properly added to the water.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Brando said:


> What does this imply..prime is not good to use?
> What is the option?


I do not use prime or for that matter any other dechlorinator/ammonia lock.

They are sulfide (or sulfur or whatever) based products and have very serious side effects. For the ammonia locks most liquid test kits still test positive for ammonia even though the ammonia may be fully locked up. The danger is you test ammonia and chemicals still test ammonia and so on.

Secondly they lock up oxygen. With the above senerio going on each addition removes oxygen from the system and will eventually suffocate the fish.

I did use prime once with my only real tank crash where I added a toxin resulting in a very maxed out api ammonia test. (8ppm+++++++). But what I did was first remove the fish to another tank. That was the only thing that saved the fish. Then I treated with prime once and only once. The seachem ammonia multitest revealed the free ammonia was gone but the total ammonia was still over 5ppm (max). So prime had done its job. A week later I rinsed my filter media and a day later ammonia dropped back down. (I probably added the toxin by initially rinsing the filter media with latex gloves on that contained the toxin). I then went through a 3 week cycle where nitrates finally droped back down to 0. (yes nitrates). pH (a marine tank) dropped from 8.4-8.8 to 7.5 (yellow api high range kit) then rose back up over a week or two.

Others in Fw tank report KH crashes as well.

So what I have done for years is start the tank with plant life and let that plant life condition the tank. Then just replace evaporative water. All the time with untreated tap water from a frequently used cold faucet. With no chemicals added to treat ammonia/chlorine/chloramins and so on.


my .02


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## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> I do not use prime or for that matter any other dechlorinator/ammonia lock.
> 
> They are sulfide (or sulfur or whatever) based products and have very serious side effects. For the ammonia locks most liquid test kits still test positive for ammonia even though the ammonia may be fully locked up. The danger is you test ammonia and chemicals still test ammonia and so on.
> 
> ...


Whenever I get another tank, I would love to do a planted one and try some of the techniques you have talked about. I wanted to do live plants with my current tank, but I think with cichlids it will be too challenging. The water chemistry and cichlids are challenging enough on their own. And due to where I live, my choice of cichlids are severly limited, which has in itself has been very disappointing.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

marmstrong said:


> Whenever I get another tank, I would love to do a planted one and try some of the techniques you have talked about. I wanted to do live plants with my current tank, but I think with cichlids it will be too challenging. The water chemistry and cichlids are challenging enough on their own. And due to where I live, my choice of cichlids are severly limited, which has in itself has been very disappointing.


Understand. 

and with cichlids (or other fish that attack plants) it is a real challenge to do a planted tank. One solution is some kind of refigum setup (even just an in tank partition) to keep the plants/fish seperate.

my .02


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