# Questions for possible science project



## Nasubi77 (Oct 14, 2011)

Hello all! I'm in the research phase of setting up a tropical tank and the more I read about shrimp the more I am enamored with them!

Anyway, I read this article the other day about how the climate change is making food sources smaller, from polar bears down to plankton and I thought of a great science fair project idea! DS is in 6th grade and I don't know if they have those this year or not but even if he doesn't have one til next year, we'll have a year's worth of data to analyze.

I thought of having 2 tanks full of shrimp. Having one tank at 75 and one at 80 (just examples..may be adjusted once "ideal" temp of shrimp species is known) to see if one temp produces consistently bigger or smaller generations of shrimp.

Then I realized the gist of the story was about climate increase, so I thought I would increase one tank temp by 1 or 2 degrees every "generation" while the other tank remains constant. Otherwise, both tanks would be set up and fed identically. 

So, which shrimps produce the fastest? What period of time would you consider a generation to shrimp? I'm guessing I would determine that by the amount of time it takes for the shrimp to become completely mature. How many shrimp would you start with? They would be in 10g tanks. What is the life span of the shrimp? Do you think it's possible to measure the size of individuals? 

So, any input? What do you think of this kind of experiment? Any ideas to improve upon this experiment? Is it even feasible?

Thanks!


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

I think it would be a grossly inaccurate experiment.
You'd might as well put them in a crockpot on low.

Think about it, how many years has it taken for the earth to rise one degree?
how many generations of shrimp have come and gone with such a broad span of time to adapt to higher temps? Considering that within 5 years, you would have gone through 10 generations and an increase of 10 degrees in 5 years ???
Increasing temps at such a fast rate would be like comparing the speed of a microwave to an electric oven with one element burnt out and the door seal cracked open.

I'm sure the shrimp WOULD have stunted growth!

The earths temp fluctuates. Imagine if every year the temp rose 2 degrees? (cherry shrimp reach breeding maturity in 4 to 6 months)
Well heck, according to climate change theory, human life on earth would be nonexistent within 10 years!


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## Nasubi77 (Oct 14, 2011)

I can't argue that this would not be a very accurate experiment. It's for a 6th grade science fair...it's not like I'm applying for a grant for scientific research.

BUT...

I just want to clarify that I would not put the temps beyond the range that is acceptable for shrimp to live in. I hardly think you can equate bumping the temp from 75 to 76 over 6 months, or from 75-80 over the course of 2 and a half years to putting the shrimp in a crock pot. 

Isn't it a common practice to increase tank temps several degrees at once to get rid of ich? I could raise all my reptile temps several degrees at once and they would be just fine, too.

My idea may have many flaws, but cooking the shrimp is not one of them.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it would be a great thing to do, aside from potential stress on the shrimp from overly hot conditions. What I'm most concerned about, however, is time. Red Cherry Shrimp are the fastest and easiest to breed, but it takes about 3 months from the berried female to the offspring being berried, in my experience. Do you have about a year to study four generations? Keep in mind, continued inbreeding between the future generations yields weaker shrimp, BTW.


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## Nasubi77 (Oct 14, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> I think it would be a great thing to do, aside from potential stress on the shrimp from overly hot conditions. What I'm most concerned about, however, is time. Red Cherry Shrimp are the fastest and easiest to breed, but it takes about 3 months from the berried female to the offspring being berried, in my experience. Do you have about a year to study four generations? Keep in mind, continued inbreeding between the future generations yields weaker shrimp, BTW.


Like I said, I would not exceed a temp that is not within their recommended range.

We could start the experiment now and have a nice time period for an 8th grade project. Truthfully, I'm not even sure they still DO science fair projects. Anyway, it was just an idea that I'm feeling out and may not even happen. I don't even know if we are organized or motivated enough to keep up with that kind of data over a long period, lol. Good to know about the inbreeding. I figured that might be an issue but wasn't sure if the effects were as prominent in inverts as they are in like reptiles and mammals. 

Thanks for the responses!


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm not saying that what you are proposing would be like putting shrimp in a crockpot.
I'm saying that the level of accuracy would be no better than putting shrimp in a crockpot.

The problem I see with it is this:
You would almost certainly have stunted growth shrimp.
But the cause would be related to a whole playing field of things.
Inbreeding, hormone changes in the tank due to more and more shrimp being produced/run through it, early spawning of each new generation, etc.

That's the problem with much of the current "global climate change" science theory now.
There are so many different factors in the mix. (some of which we are actually aware of, and who knows how many we are NOT aware of.) Yet one aspect of all these is focused on, some results pop up from that, and then magically it is determined that "man is causing global warming". 

Well that certainly well may be a contributing factor, but what about the other 99% of things that are affecting climate change?

Does 80 degree water result in stunted shrimp growth over 72degree?
Possibly, but when you focus on that, the results appear to be saying "These shrimp experienced stunted growth due to increasing water temps."
That would be incredibly misleading.

"Maybe" 1% of the effect was from water temp, while 99% was other factors.

If this project is for school science, it is for learning.
Do we really want to teach such grossly inaccurate theory as factual science?

I know, "its just a middle school science project".

But that is where these kids are most impressionable!
For goodness sakes they believe santa clause is real because we tell them its so.

If they see something that claims creatures are growing smaller due to warmer temps, thats all they will see.
They will likely believe it all their lives, it would become "common knowledge".

When in reality its no more than a vapor of water in the ocean of real fact.

Remember, people once believed the earth was flat. It was common knowledge.
They only saw one tiny aspect of the whole picture.


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