# First fishless cycle?



## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm about to start my first fishless cycle and I only have one question. Cause of the differing instructions, how long do I need to wait before I test ammonia after initial dose? One thing said a few minutes another said 2-3hours.


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## Fishtail76 (Oct 17, 2013)

I waited 2 hours after the first dose. I read several websites and some don't say anything about waiting but I would think it is important to make sure the ammonia is well circulated.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Fishless cycle starting now. 10g tank.
Baseline readings:
0ppm ammonia, nitrite, nitrate
Dosed 1/2 tsp ammonia


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Did that get you to 4ppm? Do you plan to dose everyday?


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I just got to 4ppm, it took 2 tsps. Yep I'm gonna dose everyday .


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good. I would stop testing for ammonia right now. You can start up again once your nitrites hit 3-5ppm. The knowledge will cause you to go crazy anyway...it WILL be high.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Update: Day 7 first fishless cycle
Still dosing my original dose daily
No trace of nitrites yet.
Just for kicks I tested my ammonia level for the first time since originally figuring the dosage. Off the charts. It was practically an opaque dark green color.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Seen MANY fishless cycle without ever seeing nitrites?! 
I would test for NitrAtes just for giggles(and since it has been 7 days).


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

No nitrates either, just tested.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Day 10
Still dosing everyday
No trace of nitrites or nitrates yet .


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I'm taking a bet on day 12 before you see anything  anyone wanna take that bet?? lol


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

bolram said:


> I'm taking a bet on day 12 before you see anything  anyone wanna take that bet?? lol


Thankfully gambling is not one of my addictions(I'd have to quit one to fit another),but this is a real gamble.Everyones tank and water is different.I wish it was an easy thing to say how long,but I've seen extremes in both directions,that still leave me wondering what makes it go the way it does for some?
I will say I would think something should happen very shortly?


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Very true even 2 identical tanks next to each other can take 2 different times to cycle. As with most things in the aquarium its patience and playing the waiting game


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Day 14, still no nitrites or nitrates. I'm going to keep on keepin on. Should have taken that bet. I am starting to put somE plants in. Threw in a clump of java moss today.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Day 17, still nothing, no nitrites or nitrates. Dosing everyday!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This seems to be taking WAY too long?Can you add any media from an existing filter?If you can I would add whatever you can and stop dosing for 4 days(just pretend your at the I see nitrite part of the show.


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## AuntyFe (Mar 25, 2014)

I am a bit surprised that you are dosing daily. Once you have 4ppm in the tank you want to measure it every couple of days to see the value start to go down, indicating the bacterial action is starting. If you keep adding ammonia, how will you know it is starting to go down? Plus at some point your water will be toxic for everything!

No doubt someone with more experience will advise, but you could consider a PWC to get the value down to something between 4 and 8 ppm, then keep measuring.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

do a 70 percent water change add a bottle of Beneficial bacteria. (It couldn't hurt and it could help) 

add Good clean tap water and wait 3 days of just staring at the tank. Don't look at it dont touch it dont taste it dont even think about it.

Then test.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

I do think maybe there's something wrong with your cycle, but I do NOT think that you should not be adding ammonia every day. The fishless thread specifically states to add the same amount that it took to get to 4ppm initially every day. You don't just get it to 4 and let it sit. Yo keep dosing until you see nitrites. That's how you know if te ammonia is being consumed. You do NOT need to test for ammonia after you dose to 4ppm initially. I did add bacteria to my tank when fishless cycling. Did it work? Dunno, but I was done in 7 days. I agree it couldn't hurt if you have some extra $ to throw at it. Maybe try this before doing anything else. It may be helpful to add that my tank had previously had fish in it, but I emptied it when I got my 55g and it say for several months with a capful of bleach in the 2 inches of water I left to cover my gravel. Don't ask me why I did that bit I did. Anyways, I then scrubbed my tank clean and filled with water and started my fishless cycle and finished in 7 days. Something isn't right with your cycle, that's evident. So maybe try a bottle of tetra safe start and see if that moves things along. God knows your tank will have enough ammonia to feed the bacteria. Is your tank currently heated? I not, heat it to between 82 and 84 degrees. Try this before abandoning your current attempt.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I got nothing against bottled bacterias,but I believe for TSS you are not supposed to let the ammonia go over 1-2ppm.That would possibly be a problem?Take a piece of one of your filters and get it in the tank,stop dosing and test ammonia (just for ****'s and giggles),it should be completely unreadable(like turn black with 1/2 the drops added?).


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Ok guys, here's the deal. I was dosing the amount that initially got me to 4ppm ammonia. The whole point of what I was trying to do was follow the fishless cycle thread and perform a fishless cycle "from scratch". I do have double the amount if bio media in an AQ 30 that's on my 20g, so if I wanted to go that route I could add some to this filter. I am really not that worried about how long it takes as I'm in no hurry. I don't know why it's taking so long, I'm thinking about sticking it out just to see how long it takes.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Certainly an option. If you get impatient, at least youngster available bio material to use.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> I got nothing against bottled bacterias,but I believe for TSS you are not supposed to let the ammonia go over 1-2ppm.That would possibly be a problem?Take a piece of one of your filters and get it in the tank,stop dosing and test ammonia (just for ****'s and giggles),it should be completely unreadable(like turn black with 1/2 the drops added?).


FWIW, I used TSS when I did mine. But really, who knows if it even worked.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

chenowethpm said:


> Ok guys, here's the deal. I was dosing the amount that initially got me to 4ppm ammonia. The whole point of what I was trying to do was follow the fishless cycle thread and perform a fishless cycle "from scratch". I do have double the amount if bio media in an AQ 30 that's on my 20g, so if I wanted to go that route I could add some to this filter. I am really not that worried about how long it takes as I'm in no hurry. I don't know why it's taking so long, I'm thinking about sticking it out just to see how long it takes.


It is just science(not my strongest suit),but IMO it has to work eventually.
There is way more to be learned in waiting it out, then trying any of our suggestions.
I'm hip!Glad you're not all in a bunch about it and am interested in seeing how this works out like you.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

*nitrites!!*


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yay!!!!!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

*W


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Glad it is working. I had problems getting started using used media for seeding and eventually went with TSS and everything cycled in five days. Haven't had a single loss after stocking about 14 small fish. Plants are growing great, water parameterrs couldn't be better. I'm doing 25-30% WCs each week, bypassing the softener. Bets of luck goign forward.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Wow, its about time.


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## Fishtail76 (Oct 17, 2013)

Grats!!!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

And this is what I dig; that you dosed daily for seemingly way to many days and still science/nature does it's thing.I wonder where the people who talk about "stalled cycles" from too much ammonia are now?
If you had done ANYTHING besides dose ammonia everyone/anyone could say it was because of.....(adding established media,adding bacteria booster, the waterchanges helped.......).I thank you for just doing it the way you did.There should be no questions,besides why some take longer than others.It works period.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks bandit, and everyone. And that is the reason I did it. It has taken a lot longer than I would have expected and it's still not over, but I'm going to continue on with the directions written in the fishless cycling thread. We will see how long the rest takes.

As of today nitrites are still present, no sign of nitrates. I will be dosing half my initial dose every 4 days. I haven't tested ammonia and don't plan too until I see nitrates or a drop in nitrites.

Yay for science!


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## Glen1 (Apr 15, 2014)

It is so strange that it took you so long, but that is also the great thing about this thing that we all enjoy. Sometimes it just does not adhere to the ‘laws’ that we know and we just have to assume that everything is going to work out. Great to hear that you finally have nitrates after waiting for so long.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Update. Day 23
Nitrites .25ppm
Nitrates 5ppm or somewhere between 0 and 5

With the development if nitrates i am confident that the cycle is working itself out, it's been a good practice in patience. On the home stretch. Now I have to decide what to stock it with. Having second thoughts about my original idea. Although I still have some time to think and research.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Day 22
Nitrite spike. I tested ammonia for first time since the beginning. Still off the charts. Haven't dosed in 4 days. Readings are as follows

Ammonia- off the charts
Nitrite- 5ppm or off the chart
Nitrate- 5ppm


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I would do a 50 percent change Even though you are moderately in the begining of the cycle just based on how high you have the ammonia. but some folks might disagree.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Nooo! Do not change water until everything zeroes and your nitrates are off the chart. Then do a massive change to get them within acceptable levels and stick fully. May have to do another 50% change after stocking depending on how low you can get the nitrates initially. By massive we're talking like 70-80%


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Just because of how you have gone about this I know you will not change water!I am still very interested in how this plays out following the fishless cycle.With no fish there is no need to change water,and as far as too much ammonia"stalling" the cycle ,slow as it is the cycle is happening.Stick with it and keep posting!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

There is one undeniable fact here for your values...the fact that nitrite is rising is an indication that your ammonia is dropping. Once you start to see nitrates, your nitrites are dropping. Be sure when you test for nitrates that you only look at the result after 5min. If you go beyond that it will continue to darken and give you a false indication.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Day 24
Nitrates are rising all other levels still off the charts. Still going to dose every 4 days. I think I'll have a massive bacteria colony by the end of this thing. Bandit your right, I won't change the water, I wanna see how it plays out as well. Jr, you said it. With the nitrates on the rise it is undeniably working.

Ammonia- off the chart
Nitrite- 2-5ppm or off the chart
Nitrate-20ppm


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Ok, been so busy no posts in a few days. My ammonia has now zeroed out within a couple days from adding. Ive still got nitrites. I'm having a weird time with the nitrate test. When I put the first solution in it turns brown, not yellow. I've read that a really high nitrate level can cause this but was wondering if anyone had experience like this.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Only wierd results I ever got were the color going off the charts before I even added all the second drops.No matter how high my nitrates have been(I have had HIGH nitrates in past) #1 solution was always bright yellow.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Update. I dosed ammonia yesterday and when I checked today. No ammonia. So it's processing the ammonia in at least 24hrs. Still have nitrites, about .5 ppm. Can't tell on the nitrates. I did some digging and found a couple people doing this process having the same nitrate test problem . Both doing fishless cycles, both said they changed water and then the test worked like normal. I'm tempted, but I think I'm going to wait it out the nitrites until I do a massive water change. I think I'm almost there.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

0.5 nitrites? Easily a false positive or so low I would say you are there!
Change a massive amount of water so you can get a good nitrAte reading and dose ammonia again if you are really curious.
This has been very interesting especially the strange color on nitrate test.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Congrats!!


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

perhaps the strange color on the nitrates is from the SUPREMELY high concentrations of nitrates?


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

joecrouse said:


> perhaps the strange color on the nitrates is from the SUPREMELY high concentrations of nitrates?


That's what I read about. It's so high that it reacts with bottle #1 of the nitrate test. I'm talking like 200ppm or something.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm going to do something like a 80% water change, test nitrates and dose the system to test it again. Don't know what fish I'm stocking yet.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

do the big water change AFTER that last little bit of nitrites cycles out.. Id be willing to bet by tommorow morning around noon. test and see if the nitrites are gone


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That low of nitrites and as long as you have waited this process out I would just do it now. It has already proven it can process a fairly large portion of ammonia out of the tank. A fishless cycle shouldn't go more than 2wks or so and since you have been dosing so long you would have a very high level of nitrates. I would take the water down on the tank as far as I could get it. Even then when it is filled back up you are still likely to have nitrates high enough that you may need another water change.

Congrats on getting it done.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Update. Yesterday tank was still showing nitrites. Last night I did the large water change to see if I could get a readable test level on the nitrates. I did the water change, like 80%, and tested. 0 Ammonia, nitrites(not sure of ppm) and about 10-20ppm nitrates. I decided to dose ammonia again, too check the processing time. Today I checked all levels, 0 Ammonia, 5ppm Nitrites, 20ppm nitrates. I'm thinking the bacteria that processes nitrites is not fully developed. Should I change water until zero nitrites and dose again? Or should I just keep daily testing until nitrites drop to zero. I'm not worried about the time or anything. This process has been extremely informative.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'd give it up to 4 days to 0 out the nitrites.Unless you are in a hurry?


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks CB, and no, I'm not in a hurry. It's already been 5 weeks, no sense in worrying about hurrying.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

What level did you bring the ammonia too?


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

2ppm


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Update:
Dosed four days ago
Today:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 1ppnm
Nitrates 20ppm
Thinking about changing water to get the nitrites down nd dosimg again to check the processing times.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think you need to do that. Just stock to about 75% and then go slow from there. Some of your bacteria colonies appear a little lite, but they are doing their job.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks jrmain, I plan on doing a corydora species tank with six Corys for this tank. It's gonna be planted as well. Already has java moss and java fern as of a few days ago. I guess I could put 4 in then wait to put the last two in.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

What size is the tank again? I have 13 cories (I think) in my 20. Weekly water changes are necessary of 50% because I think I over stocked it, but they are doing just fine. Apparently they just like to poop since weekly my nitrates get to about 20ppm, but I never actually see any poop so I guess my two canisters are doing a great job of picking it up on their own. Reason I'm saying this is that you could probably do more than 6 ultimately if you wanted to if you're using even a 20g tank.

I also have a single rubber lip pleco in there.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

It's a 10. Aqadvisor puts me at 100% with six Corys. I know it's just a "guideline", but I'm confident I can handle the maintenance. I already do 50% water changes weekly on all my tanks.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

You guys think the 10 is too small for the Corys? I could put a betta in it, but probably too much flow?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think you should be fine as long as you keep up the water changes.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

*CYCLE COMPLETE*
Tested just now,
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates 40ppm
50% water change to bring nitrates down and I'm stocking today.


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