# New (to me) tank. Equipment Questions



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

I just got a used 72 gallon tank and all the equipment the previous owner was using.

I've never had a tank this size, or used the equipment hes got so I'm a little in the dark as to if what I've got is appropriate for the tank.

72 gallons, freshwater, right now its only got 6 small fish and 4 medium sized fish, but i plan on adding more eventually.

There is a penguin 330 biowheel filter, its got two bio wheels, and the particulate and carbon filter insterts, but then there were two large "basket" looking things he had filled with charcol in the well part of that filter...which was something I'd never seen before and an under gravel filter with two stacks on it each with a powerhead 301 on the top.

The powerheads are where I'm really lost. I've not a clue if two is appropriate for a tank this size. I have them both on atm, but they seem to move a lot of water, so i pointed the streams at the glass to disperse the current a little.

Also, they both have aerators on them but with both of them going full blast the tank was all bubbles, so for now I've only got 1 of the aerators on while the other one is just moving the water.

So can anyone point me in the right direction? Is my current setup appropriate, over kill or need tweaking?

Thanks!


----------



## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

I does sound like compatible equipment, the 330 penguin has a basket which the previous own put his own media in...and you can change to what you like. The UG has power heads and to my view this is OK if you like an UG filter setup that way, but you can change it the way you like. It seems a large tank, but easy to over fill and best to keep it lower on livestock till your system achieves a balance of stability.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

LTruex said:


> I does sound like compatible equipment, the 330 penguin has a basket which the previous own put his own media in...and you can change to what you like. The UG has power heads and to my view this is OK if you like an UG filter setup that way, but you can change it the way you like. It seems a large tank, but easy to over fill and best to keep it lower on livestock till your system achieves a balance of stability.


Thanks for the tips. I just did a bit of research on the PH 301's and i guess the 301's are rated for 30 gallon tanks...since i've got two, that would seem fairly appropriate.

I'm fine the with the setup the way it is, i just wanted to make sure there was plenty of filtration without being overkill.

Anyone have any suggestions on what should be done for aeration? 

how much is enough...how much is too much?

Thanks!


----------



## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Your system shouldn't be too excessive and much depends on what fish will be in the tank, for a species that started life in calm waters could find stress in fast turnover systems. And most of todays filters are fast turnover in the tank, and not inside the filter system itself...where it would recirculate inside the filter over and over letting only a fraction of the water back into the tank from which it came.


----------



## Dave Waits (Oct 12, 2012)

Undergravel filters are great except for one thing, when you live in an area like mine. Duke Energy is not known for flawless operation here. We average about six shutdowns a year due to weather-related damage. This directly affects Undergravel systems as they count on large colonies of oxygen-loving bacteria(Aerobic). When the power shuts down the water stops moving. When that happens the Aerobic bacteria die off and you get an Anaerobic bacteria population going. These buggers kill fish quickly. 

I am not saying this will happen but, there is the chance. If you live in an area with reliable power-production and delivery, it's no sweat.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Dave Waits said:


> Undergravel filters are great except for one thing, when you live in an area like mine. Duke Energy is not known for flawless operation here. We average about six shutdowns a year due to weather-related damage. This directly affects Undergravel systems as they count on large colonies of oxygen-loving bacteria(Aerobic). When the power shuts down the water stops moving. When that happens the Aerobic bacteria die off and you get an Anaerobic bacteria population going. These buggers kill fish quickly.
> 
> I am not saying this will happen but, there is the chance. If you live in an area with reliable power-production and delivery, it's no sweat.


I did not now that. We're NIPSCO customers here in Indiana, and aren't prone to extended outages. Longest I can ever remeber being out of power was about a day and a half like 15 years ago during a huge ice storm.

Other than that usually its just flickers, or at most a few hours.

How short a term are we talking about before the bacteria start dyeing?


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Also still looking for some feedback on proper aeration.

With the aerator on the powerheads it saturates the tank with little bubbles, so I'm only running one of them with the aerator on. I like the look of the tank without the bubbles, but I certainly dont want to starve my fish of oxygen.

whats a proper amount?

*c/p*


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

If the return on the biowheels splash the surface that is adequate.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

dalfed said:


> If the return on the biowheels splash the surface that is adequate.


Thats what I was wondering...essential some at all is enough. Thanks!


----------



## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Welcom DaveWaits, Not everyone favors UG filtration, for by design you use an air column to lift water from below gravel, this pulls water through the gravel, which over time loads the gravel with waste products and hence harmful...in a nutshell that is the conflict over UG filtration. Some have explored the idea of powering not sucking water below the gravel and reverse this problem of pushing material to the surface for easier cleaning...IMO this is a desirable consideration, and so like it the next tank setup will have my own version of this concept, but I'm not going to detail it here.


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Hello, and welcome to the forum and the hobby 

I don't think powerheads are necessary. The only place I've ever seen them used extensively is in marine tanks. Otherwise, current flow from the filters is usually enough for freshwater tanks.

Undergravel filters are great biological filtration, but they require overhauls or you get some nasty anaerobic bacteria buildups and possible hydrogen sulfide problems (over a VERY long term, mind you; most ppl don't leave their tanks set up that long). The only time I would say an UGF isn't helpful is when you have freshwater plants, as their root systems don't like moving water and it will inhibit their growth.

The media baskets in the filters you can use for ceramic bio-media, or various chemical filtration methods like carbon, peat moss, Purigen, etc.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> Hello, and welcome to the forum and the hobby
> 
> I don't think powerheads are necessary. The only place I've ever seen them used extensively is in marine tanks. Otherwise, current flow from the filters is usually enough for freshwater tanks.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

I'm not NEW to the hobby, just new to a tank this size with this equipment, although it does feel like I'm coming in pretty fresh. Its so nice to have knowledable people here on the forum to ask questions!

I've always used UGF but never with the powerheads. The ones I have now, just came with the tank, so i figure as long as they aren't hurting anything I'll keep them. 

I've got 1 pointed directly at the glass with the aerator on to disperse most of the current, and the other is point towards the front kind of angularly, I've been trying to keep an eye on the fish, there seems to be plenty of places for fish that don't want all the movement to get in and chill, but my Danios seem to love the stream. They all take turns swimming directly into it.

I can't wait for the next few weeks to pass so I can make sure everyone is settled in and start adding new fish!


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Forgot to ask - are the powerheads what are running the UGF?
If so, I think as long as the suction is water-tight, the drag through the gravel should slow the output of the powerheads. You can also run a reverse setup, where the powerheads` outlets are blasting water down the tubes under the UGF plates and back up through the gravel. Works the same as far as biological filtration, and makes vacuuming easier.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> Forgot to ask - are the powerheads what are running the UGF?
> If so, I think as long as the suction is water-tight, the drag through the gravel should slow the output of the powerheads. You can also run a reverse setup, where the powerheads` outlets are blasting water down the tubes under the UGF plates and back up through the gravel. Works the same as far as biological filtration, and makes vacuuming easier.


Yeah the powerheads are whats running the UGF. I had always just used an airpump before on all my other UGF, I'd never used one with the powerheads.

Hence the questions. ;-)

Now that I've got them setup, I'm actually a bigger fan of the powerheads over the airpumps as the airpumps i've used in the past always end up getting noisy and need replacement parts.


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

drbromiandufewd said:


> Now that I've got them setup, I'm actually a bigger fan of the powerheads over the airpumps as the airpumps i've used in the past always end up getting noisy and need replacement parts.


I like them too. I ran a powerhead rated for 20 gallons on a 10 gallon UGF back in my fledgling days before I went planted. Loved it to death.


----------



## jaybourne074 (Sep 19, 2012)

I do not recommand UG filter also if you planned to have plants.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

jaybourne074 said:


> I do not recommand UG filter also if you planned to have plants.


Will keep that in mind if/when i move to a planted tank.


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Keep in mind that you can always run the UGF when unplanted, then if you decide to plant you can always disconnect the tubes, cap them, and leave the plates to get dirty. I've read plants love that.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> Keep in mind that you can always run the UGF when unplanted, then if you decide to plant you can always disconnect the tubes, cap them, and leave the plates to get dirty. I've read plants love that.


Hmmm thats interesting. I want to go planted but not yet, Honestly the first thing on my wish list would be a different substrate.


What came with the tank was a mix of that neon blue gravel (that i hate) and some larger brown stone.

Luckily i had enough tan gravel to cover the top of all of it, so the majority of the old gravel is covered, but you can still see a line of it under the brown gravel and its really tacky looking.


I really don't know how to go about changing subtrates now that the tank is in.

I suppose it pretty much means taking everything out (including fish) and scooping the existing gravel out?


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

In a word, yes. Changing substrate is never easy, nor clean.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> In a word, yes. Changing substrate is never easy, nor clean.


Yeah the clean is the part I'm worried about....that gravel in there is nasty and its going screw up my water for sure.

Haha maybe i could get a wet vac and suck the gravel out.... ;-)

Speaking of substrates...whats the most popular for a planted tank?

I've seen a few tanks with black sand and I'd really like to move that direction...hoping that coincides well with a planted tank.


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

lol, I've changed substrate out before, and I can say you're in for a fun ride. You'll probably have to overhaul the entire tank and all the water if you're going to go that route.

Planted tank substrate is a whole can of worms. There's mineralized topsoil topped with sand, a Walstad dirt tank topped with sand, Akadama, ADA aquasoil, eco complete, floramax, or fluorite, to name a few. Aquasoil is probably the most expensive, the Walstad method is probably the cheapest.

Black Diamond blasting sand is good cheap black sand for use in planted tanks, available at IFA or your local hardware store. Because the sand it self has low nutrient values you'll need to fertilize with root fert tabs, or put something underneath like mineralized topsoil or organic potting soil.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> lol, I've changed substrate out before, and I can say you're in for a fun ride. You'll probably have to overhaul the entire tank and all the water if you're going to go that route.
> 
> Planted tank substrate is a whole can of worms. There's mineralized topsoil topped with sand, a Walstad dirt tank topped with sand, Akadama, ADA aquasoil, eco complete, floramax, or fluorite, to name a few. Aquasoil is probably the most expensive, the Walstad method is probably the cheapest.
> 
> Black Diamond blasting sand is good cheap black sand for use in planted tanks, available at IFA or your local hardware store. Because the sand it self has low nutrient values you'll need to fertilize with root fert tabs, or put something underneath like mineralized topsoil or organic potting soil.




I rearranged some stuff last night and vacummed the gravel and it all kind of mixed together...its weird combo of the blue white and brown...but i have to admit...i dont hate it.

Its nice enough now i think I can live with it. I need to put substrate change clear out of my head for now and just be happy with what i have.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Changing substrate in an existing tank is not impossible without removing everything, but you do need to go about it pretty slow. Adding new stuff back in can be equally messy unless you use Eco-complete. I recommend it only for its ease of adding to a tank with very little mess. No need to rinse it or anything else. Awesome stuff from that aspect. Not much nutrient value in it either, as it is mostly inert. No need to add anything to the substrate for planted if you are dosing the water column.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I use sand in most of my tanks, and I will never go back with anything else. I love the look the texture and the fact my plants seem to stay better. My swords grow magnificently in it.
I do have root tabs for the swords and my crypts which are root feeders, but stem plants I fert the water column for so its no big deal that theres nothing under it.

As for changing it out, its not impossible as jrman said, just go slow. I have a video from another person somewhere where he is adding sand back to a full aquarium, and it gives minimal clouding. It consists of the substrate in a 2 liter soda bottle. You invert it in the tank, and having it about an inch from the bottom, let the sand or whatever go.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

majerah1 said:


> I use sand in most of my tanks, and I will never go back with anything else. I love the look the texture and the fact my plants seem to stay better. My swords grow magnificently in it.
> I do have root tabs for the swords and my crypts which are root feeders, but stem plants I fert the water column for so its no big deal that theres nothing under it.
> 
> As for changing it out, its not impossible as jrman said, just go slow. I have a video from another person somewhere where he is adding sand back to a full aquarium, and it gives minimal clouding. It consists of the substrate in a 2 liter soda bottle. You invert it in the tank, and having it about an inch from the bottom, let the sand or whatever go.



When I make the switch to plants, I'm gonna go sand. I really want a black sand bottom.


----------

