# Refresh my memory please!!!



## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Does Purigen remove copper?? I think copper pipes is the reason I can't keep snails or shrimp. I have had as many as 50 rams horn snails, but am down to just a few. Also, had a couple dozen feeder shrimp, but they lasted only a week. 

Even pond snails don't do well.

I change at least 50% or half the tank every friday. Tank is heavily planted with black sand substrate. Oh it's a 20gl. Been set up a year. Tank tests out at .25 or less Amm. 0 Nitrites, and 30 Nitrates. Well water stays at 20 nitrates.

I will buy a copper test kit and purigen or what ever is needed if you all think I need to. I will be setting up one of the 29g soon and want to put a few shrimp in it along with a few snails. 

Would carbon help? Sure appreciate you all for all your help.

Have a blessed day


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You want seachem"cuprisorb" to remove copper.It doesn't come in bags,just a jar and I don't believe it is rechargeable,but it works very well.Long ago(in the '80s) I learned all about it with my first(and my step dads first) saltwater tanks.We were both learning and using tap water.As the story goes I had already upgraded to making my own distilled water,but my step dad was not.One day about 7 months after I gave him his first saltwater tank he called to say "all the fish are swimming upside down and look like they are going to die!".It was copper from his plumbing that built up over time and water changes!We solved his problems that day with distilled water(about 30 gallons) and removed all the rest of the copper with the cuprisorb.
Sorry for the long story,but I think you are correct on your thought,and short of using RO or distilled the cuprisorb should solve your problem.Hope this helps!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If not mistaken, I hear tanks are permanently scared from copper. That is to say that even if you went to 100% RO water that your tank would hold on to enough of it that it still may effect things that are sensitive to it, like inverts. Just what I have read anyway.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

That will probably do it. I am not able to use the distilled water, but will get the cuprisob soon.

I know how distilled water is made, but how do you do it on such a large scale as aquariums?? Wonder if it is something I could consider. What kind of set up is required??

What about phosphours? Bad spelling I know.  Could it be causing problems?

Would it be ok/wise to use the Purigen at the same time? Thanks for answering so fast Tom. You always come thru for me.

have a blessed day


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I have read the same thing jrman. I need this for a brand new 29g I will set up soon. I know there isn't much help for the other tanks. Wonder if I remove ALL the old sealant from a tank and replaced it, if it would still hold copper in the glass?? Everything else in the tank could be replaced.

Thanks jrman, you, like Tom, always come thru for me.

Have a blessed day


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It should be no problem to use both purigen and cuprisorb as they both do different things that do help with water quality.
On the note that copper last for a very long time,I don't debate it,but think that in time (a month or two) that the cuprisorb would lower the copper levels to safe for most everything.
Lets remember that although when strong enough copper is deadly to inverts,that it is also in ALL THE FERTS that planted people use .many of them keep shrimp without problems.Most FW keepers focus on measurable amounts of whatever is in the water,but take it from one who kind of understands salt water(a little) that there is so much stuff in water that many of these things are unmeasurable by us,thus the term :trace elements".With people having issues with standard test kit results(can't tell if it is 10ppm or 20 ppm) none of us could come close to measuring the level of all other things(levels like .06ppm!).
Point is I think with the cuprisorb and time your existing tank could recover.A single jar of cuprisorb for your use will service many tanks possibly for years!Just get a couple bags and place some in existing filter to remove what is there,and do the same with new set up to prevent its accumulation.It removed enough copper to almost(would have )kill fish,and never had a readable level on test kit again.
On the test kit;I would skip it unless you ever think you will use copper for a medical purpose,as the color differences on the test are far harder to tell apart then ANY other kit I have ever used(including very accurate phosphates).
AOL Search
This ^^^ is the card and .5 is considered to be medicated max level.Anyone see the difference between .25 and .5?
By the time you get to 4ppm your fish (and everything else) was dead days if not weeks ago.


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## evanb (Jul 10, 2013)

Doesn't Seachem Prime also remove copper?


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

Copper is deadly even in low concentration special for invertebrates. Snails, shrimp, leeches.
It has a low therapeutic index. It can be applied for a short time in order to combat Hydra. But only a sheet set 10x10 cm for 3 days. then immediately back out.

if you have copper pipes, it is better to bring the water from the neighbor or from a natural source. (Before measured values​​).


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

evanb said:


> Doesn't Seachem Prime also remove copper?


Prime claims to detoxify heavy metals in normal concentration.What normal is I don't know.The build up occurs due to evaporation over time leaving all residuall behind.That is why it usaully takes time to show any effects.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

It's my understanding that the copper will leach out into the water from the lines as it sits in the lines, but if you let the water run for a few minutes before adding to tank it shouldn't have any effect on the tank. It doesn't leach into the water as its running.


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## garstrom (Jan 5, 2014)

Quick ???
Does R/O remove copper?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I think it is the DI part of ro/di systems that will remove the copper.Since there is still measurable TDS in ro water that the di completes removal of this is my thought.An ro system without di may remove some of the copper,but probly not all of it.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Tom, I see what you mean about the difference in the .25 and .5, but I have already ordered the kit. I am curious to know what the well tests and it was only 6.00$. The cuprisorb said "in time, it will even remove all copper from a tank. I hope this is so. We will see. Also ordered the purigen since my well tests at 20 on nitrate.

I do let the water run for a couple minutes before using, but evidently, I am still getting copper since I can't keep inverts. 

I would use water from a different source, but out here, nearly everyone has copper pipes. Plus this is an old farming community. The soil around here has to be saturated with chemicals, thus, the wells are contaminated. Lord knows what is in the river here.

I hope I am in time to save the one "surprise" red chrystal shrimp. I would love to have a bunch of the dark red shrimp. Will have to wait until I positive the copper is gone. 

Will the copper harm my albino bushynose pletco's???

Thanks everyone for the replys. You have all been very helpful. I will keep everyone posted. Might keep a small journal.

Have a blessed day


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It will be good to know where the tank is at anyways. Possibly you may even get a reading right from your source?The cuprisorb is really good stuff!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I hope I get some kind of reading from the well. It would be helpful to know what we were drinking. Now get our drinking water from our store in a small town. We can only carry home the small drinking bottles, so it's not feasible to fill EPA. 

Again, thanks for the help. If I forget to let you know about the tests, yssed dame.

Have a blessed day


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## garstrom (Jan 5, 2014)

For those that have copper here is a link on PEX hose, a lot of people I know are exchanging older home plumbing with this new hose. ( My nephew has several rental homes and has changed all into PEX)

What's so great about PEX? | Reuben Saltzman | StarTribune.com


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

If I were you vreugy, I would have my well tested by a reputable lab. I have nerite and ramshorn (thanks jcclimber) snails in all my tanks and have never had a problem raising them even though our tap water runs through copper pipes. I've read on here many many times that snails are a great indicator of water quality in aquariums, and if there is any contamination, etc. they will be affected. Living in a farming community, a well can easily be contaminated with pesticides/insecticides and that may be the reason you are having problems with raising snails, but not in such high concentrations to kill fish. The fact you have nitrates present in your tap water makes me wonder if you are getting fertilizer runoff into your well. The soil can only filter out so much before the runoff water "perks" down to the water table that a well draws from. We have a very shallow well (only about 50 ft deep) and it became contaminated in a very short amount of time when we had a septic tank pipe break.

It will be interesting to see what results you get with the copper test kit..keep us posted!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I haven't received the kit yet, but will let all know when I get it and use it. Lonedove55, I have no doubt my well is contaminated. It may be 350 ft deep, but that is storage. Water stands 12 ft from the surface. Oh, the "fertilizer" around here comes from a cow.  If the well itself shows copper, I will definately have it tested. I have lived 31 yrs with this well and it hasn't done me harm yet, so maybe I can clean up the house water for my finy babies. 

have a blessed day


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Got the copper test kit today. Absolutely NO copper in my tanks or well water. Thats good, but what is killing my snails? I will put the cuprisorb and purigen in the filters tomorror. Maybe they will help. Can't hurt. 
What else could be killing my snails. I can't even keep pond snails. ARRRGGGGHHH!!!
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Have a blessed day


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

possibly it is a lack of calcium.Often soft water can cause issues.A cuttle bone(for birds{and cheap}) is an easy way to add calcium.
I killed a bunch of snails when I was breeding long finned white clouds by using only ro water.Snails(there shells) require some minerals(like calcium) and soft water often does not contain enough.What is your waters pH and gH?


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

That's a good point, but I have two pieces of cuttle bone in that tank. I am going to try to get hubby to help me set up one of the 29g this weekend. I am going to put half of my snails in it and see what happens. Something must be eating the eggs. Will put a large established HOB filter on the new tank.

I have Petco black sand and a lot of plants in this tank. Just can't imagine what is wrong with it. Any more suggestions???

The fish I have in this tank all seem healthy and act normal. There are 5 black skirt tetras, 7 black neon tetras, 5 white cloud minnows, 3 albino corys, and two Julie corys. At least they were supposed to be, but they have different, but simular markings. Water tests at .0....0... and 30. Change 50-70% water every Friday. HOB filter, sponge filter and air stone. Had to put two florescent lights on top because the sword plants cover at least half the top of the water surface. And just a handful of ramshorn snails and pond snails left. 

Appreciate all your help.

have a blessed day


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The only thing that I have seen kill snails in my tanks, other than meds, is a lack of hardness. I had been adding a little too much RO water and I started losing MTS. Hard to believe pond snails are affected. If they die to a lack of hardness your water must really be soft. Guess you don't have a gh test kit?


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I am not trying to "one up" anyone, but I have liquid rock. I had a dozen ghost shrimp in another tank for about a year. Probably died off from age. I may have to give up on snails. Sure hope I can keep shrimp. So far, the one Chrystal shrimp is doing well and growing. Maybe the Purigen and cuprisorb will fix what ever is wrong. Will just have to wait and see. I am still open to suggestions. 

have a blessed day

jrman, I think I do have the test you are talking about. Isn't it in the API master test kit? Never worried about it in the past, but I will test it later today and let you know. Thanks for the "headsup"

Have a blessed day


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

gh test is not in the master kit.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Guess I will have to order a kit then. This is becoming a matter of not giving up. I want to figure this out. I'm not one to quit or give up either. Besides, I want snails. 

have a blessed day


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I wonder if aerosol spray could have anything to do with this.I would think it would kill fish also ,but most do believe inverts are more sensative.
I just read your reply to glade air freshener and thought of this issue you had right away!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

You could be right. Never give it a thought. I will nix the spray and do massive water changes the next few days. Maybe I can have snails again. Thanks for the advice.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Another thought on the snails in the one 29g tank. This tank was brand new when I set it up. It's a petco $1 a gallon. I set up an older 29g that came from WM. Transferred all the fish. The second day, the black skirts had their color back. Even the Danio's colored up again. Put lots more plants in the petco tank and 6 Pristillas. That tank now is doing very well, but...no snails. The WM tank is doing fine with 4-5 pond snails. 

Haven't put the Purgen in these tanks yet, but have it in one 10g. Every thing is doing great in it, male HM Betta and 4 feeder guppies. And 4-5 rams horn snails. They only get about half size and die. 

Haven't seen the one crystal shrimp in some time, but that tank is heavily planted and hard to see thru sometimes. 

Oh well, Just wanted to update you all. I definately will stop the room sprays though.


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