# Hello, I need some pointers.



## OctoCamo

Hey guys and gals! I am a total noob when it comes to aquariums as I am literally just now getting into my very first one! So I have been doing a ton of research and plan on going with a Salt Water set-up because I think it provides a wider variety of features. So my plan is this (and let me know what else to add or change).

I would like to start out slow and work my way up so I plan on getting a 75 gallon tank and set it up with “Reef Saver” Eco Dry Aquarium Live Rock. I heard for this I need to introduce some actual "live" rock into the tank as these have nothing "live" on them. For the substrate I chose "Black Diamond" sand because I think the black will make the colors POP when I get to that stage. So once I have those in and cycled I would then need to purchase some lighting for my new corals right? I'm thinking at this point I will then go ahead and introduce a couple of fish or should I introduce one at an earlier or later stage? Also what type of fish do you recommend starting out with? 

My main goal was to house a variety of fish including jellyfish and seahorses as the main attraction but then again they may be incompatible. 

As for the equipment will I only need a filter to begin with when I am in my live rock/sand stage? What filter do you recommend for this size of a tank and what other necessary equipment will I need once I start adding corals and fish?

Thanks guys for taking the time to read this and replying


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## ccarterj

I have some experience with salt water aquariums as I had a 55 gallon and a nano tank. One thing I will tell you are that sea horses are quite difficult as in they can not have a lot of water flow in the tank, where corals and many other salt water fish need flow to do well. I am not quite sure about jelly fish as I have not had any.

A heater and or cooler may be required depending on the temperatures of the area you keep the tank. Most people just keep a heater because the temperature of the tank is normally slightly warmer than what people like inside.

I am not sure that you "need" a filter to cycle a tank, but I have always had one on when I cycled for water movement. You also might want a power head (I think that is what they are called) that creates flow in the tank. If you are planning to put corals in, they need the food to come to them by water motion as they don't really move.

As to the filter.... There are a variety of ways to do this. As to which is best depends on what the tank will become, budget, and preference. You can setup a natural bio filter with plants and a skimmer in a separate 10 gallon aquarium underneath, which is what I went to. I originally started with a basic sit on top filter with carbon cartridges. They also have inline contained filters which allow you to put it out of the way and all you have are 2 pipes coming into the tank.

You will also need a tub of aquarium salt. This too comes in many different varieties. I used coral salt because I had lots of coral.

A water test kit and salinity tester are helpful, or you could just take many trips to the fish store as they normally test water for free.

Lighting varies a lot in quality/style/price.

Price seems to be the restrictor on a lot of things, at least for me it was... If you are planning for lots of coral, be prepared to spend 2,000-4,000 on a decent setup.

Hope I was some help, if you have any more questions, or more specifics just post.

One more thing... The black sand does look really cool... but with fish and everything it often does not stay where it is and gets on your rocks and stuff causing them to look a little off. They also offer live sands at your many fish stores that help jump off the cycling of a tank, along with other "live" cultures in a bottle which can help to.


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## OctoCamo

Hey I appreciate your reply  So what I am looking at to start off with is a tank, sump, and just a regular ol' fluorescent bulb and I am all set if I am just doing a FOWLR set-up right? Once I move onto coral then I step up my lighting system and add in the power heads right? Or do I need power heads regardless if I have coral in it or not? Now one more question...is coral necessary for some fish or is it just an added bonus for aesthetic looks?

I lied. I have one more Q  How many fish do you suggest I place in a 75 gallon tank before it is considered crowded (with rock and all)?

Thanks once again for your replies.


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## ccarterj

Regular bulbs are fine if it is just fish. By sump, I assume you are talking about a full setup including overflow box, sump, and a refugium. Bio balls and a bag of carbon are also good to have in there. The power heads are not "needed" for just fish, but are pretty cheap and don't hurt generally.

Things I think you would need listed:
Aquarium
Stand
Cover
Light
Heater - proper size for the tank
Thermometer
Hydrometer or refractometer
Filter/Sump w/activated carbon and bio balls if you do sump
Protein skimmer <--- not required but I would highly suggest
Marine salt, not aquarium salt I wasn't thinking when I wrote that, aquarium salt is for fresh water
Also look into as someone else put a "clean-up crew" like snails and shrimp and stuff

I don't believe coral is necessary for any fish, not 100 percent, but I haven't heard of any that do. Clown fish really do like it and can be happier with it, but live fine without it.

How many fish really depends on the fish, how many water changes you do/how often/ what percent and how good your filtration system is. 15 small fish are fine and it could be just 1 shark wont even have enough room depending on the shark. Be careful to see that fish go well together. 

Other things you will need to know are how to cycle the tank <-- Many different tutorials out there

And how to acclimate fish properly <-- couple different ways

If you are planning on converting to a coral tank I would definitively purchase water that has been through a RO DI filter. Just going off of memory but I believe that is right. I would not suggest using tap water alone. Many fish store have a filter and sell water for pretty cheap. The good filters are normally 250+


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> Hey guys and gals! I am a total noob when it comes to aquariums as I am literally just now getting into my very first one! So I have been doing a ton of research and plan on going with a Salt Water set-up because I think it provides a wider variety of features. So my plan is this (and let me know what else to add or change).
> 
> I would like to start out slow and work my way up so I plan on getting a 75 gallon tank and set it up with “Reef Saver” Eco Dry Aquarium Live Rock. I heard for this I need to introduce some actual "live" rock into the tank as these have nothing "live" on them. For the substrate I chose "Black Diamond" sand because I think the black will make the colors POP when I get to that stage. So once I have those in and cycled I would then need to purchase some lighting for my new corals right? I'm thinking at this point I will then go ahead and introduce a couple of fish or should I introduce one at an earlier or later stage? Also what type of fish do you recommend starting out with?
> 
> My main goal was to house a variety of fish including jellyfish and seahorses as the main attraction but then again they may be incompatible.
> 
> As for the equipment will I only need a filter to begin with when I am in my live rock/sand stage? What filter do you recommend for this size of a tank and what other necessary equipment will I need once I start adding corals and fish?
> 
> Thanks guys for taking the time to read this and replying


Ok, so jellyfish are out, they require a different type of tank, like a cylinder tank. Seahorses should be kept in a seahorse only tank with low flow. 
Equipment needed.
Skimmer rated at 2 times your water volume
Heater or Heaters in the 300watt range
Powerheads, these move the water around in the tank.
Refractometer to measure salinity
Live Rock at lease 1.5lbs per gallon, or 10lbs and the rest Lace Rock.
Reef Master water testing kit
Salt
You do not need a filter on the tank at anytime. The live rock and sand bed and skimmer are your filters.
After the water cycles its your choice when to add fish. I would not add corals until your tank is a few months old, so you might want to throw in some fish until then. Lighting for corals will have to be strong, depending on which corals you plan on keeping. SPS and Anemones will need very strong lighting. Softies and LPS not so much but high light nonetheless.
Saltwater Fish: Marine Aquarium Fish for Saltwater Aquariums
Jellyfish Aquarium
Sea Horses in Aquariums
Saltwater Reef Aquariums: Live Coral for Saltwater Coral Reef Aquariums


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## OctoCamo

Hey thanks a lot for this incredible info! I am currently looking at DIY projects for skimmers and such...so man out there. I'll be sure to post pics when I start getting my setup going.


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## OctoCamo

Alright as for a sump I am getting confused on how to get the water cycled so i came up with a quick diagram to see if I got it right. If this is how its done then great! I know what i am doing if not then where can I get a visual on how to set one up if I am going to make it a DIY project?



So basically I have the intake tube which will be gravity feed and suck water out of my aquarium into my sump which then will go through a skimmer and the refugium then get suctioned out at the other end back into my aquarium. Do I got the process down or am I way off? Thanks once more guys I think I am almost ready to get my tank and start my very first aquarium!


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## ccarterj

I recently saw a video that described it very well... You have it pretty much down but it is pumped back into the tank. You have to also be careful with overflow due to power outages. You have to do tweaking and test runs at max water level to make sure if the power goes out you don't flood ur house.


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## ccarterj

Drew's Fugue
here are 2 basic setups.


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## Reefing Madness

Thats right, you got it correct. No suction for your return, thats done by a pump.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## OctoCamo

Thanks a lot guy! I plan on getting my tank Saturday and then get the measurements, build my stand, and design my sump! After that i will be ready to do my first cycle and "leak" some pics


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> Thanks a lot guy! I plan on getting my tank Saturday and then get the measurements, build my stand, and design my sump! After that i will be ready to do my first cycle and "leak" some pics


*w3


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## AZDesertRat

The largest single ingredient in a reef system is water. Make sure you either own a good RO/DI unit or you have a reliable source of RO/DI like a trusted LFS. Stability is important and tap water cannot provide that.

There is no way you will support 15 fish safely and humanely in a 75 gallon tank, it will be more like 5 or 6 small to medium sized fish. Remember, you purchase and stock fish considering their full adult size since it should be your goal to keep them for their entire lifespan. I have had many fish live to be 13 yeras old and older and to this day have an anemone and corals that are almost 22 years old in my systems. 

Both jellyfish and seahorses are out as they have very specific and different needs and are extremely hard to keep.


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## Reefing Madness

How to Set Up a Saltwater Aquarium - How to SetUp a Salt water Fish Aquarium


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## OctoCamo

Phew setting this system up is a lot more work then I thought. So just an update.. I have designed and finished my stand (I wish I took some progress shots) Got my 29 gal tank and am wrapping up the design for the sump and am now tasked with figuring out how to plumb my overflow and return. So i will post some pics hopefully tomorrow of the stand and where I am at with the sump and if all goes well I will have it setup in my room by Friday at the latest and my live rock should arrive sometime next week. So my system should be ready to cycle then and will have some fish in it shortly after that


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> Phew setting this system up is a lot more work then I thought. So just an update.. I have designed and finished my stand (I wish I took some progress shots) Got my 29 gal tank and am wrapping up the design for the sump and am now tasked with figuring out how to plumb my overflow and return. So i will post some pics hopefully tomorrow of the stand and where I am at with the sump and if all goes well I will have it setup in my room by Friday at the latest and my live rock should arrive sometime next week. So my system should be ready to cycle then and will have some fish in it shortly after that


*W


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## OctoCamo

Alright so here are a couple shots of the finished setup! I made the cabinet myself and was going to add some molding and trim but I may do that at a later time because I just wanted it to be done  I got the DIY sump placed and I will be adding my saltwater/ sand this weekend!


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## Reefing Madness

Your last baffle looks alittle high. You need to have enough room so that when you have a power loss, the water form the tank and lines does not overflow the sump.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## OctoCamo

Yea I actually thought about this last night...i have been looking for auto-off switches that I can add to the pump area so if my overflow ever stops working and the level gets to high in my sump then the switch will shut off my pump so no more water would go into the main tank. i may end up having to build one.


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## Reefing Madness

If your power ever goes off, your tank will siphon some water back into the sump, along with what water is still in the lines. You have to drill antisiphon holes into your inlet and return lines so that when the water level in the tank starts to go down, the holes break that siphon and no more water goes into the sump.


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## OctoCamo

Actually i just ran two tests. First I unplugged my pump to see if my overflow would stop sucking water down and it did! The second test was to see if my siphon broke while my pump was still running would it overflow with the remaining water from the sump and it didn't! Now keep in mind I have a little over an inch and 1/2 from the surface of my water to the top of the tank. The water that was pumped up from my sump wasn't enough to overflow my main tank. I will run these tests a couple more times to see if I am missing something but so far so good  Thanks for your replies.


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## OctoCamo

Alright so right now I have my system up and running! I have the sand (not live) in the main tank, my mixed sea water and my thermometer is up a running! I look forward to adding the reef saver rock in a week or so  As for my sump I have 10lbs of live sand (hoping to add maybe 10 more lbs) and am seeking some macro algae but can't find any around here...could I just substitute the algae for live rock? I do have two section filled with filter mesh and was wondering if I need anything else for my sump? like Bio bags or anything? I heard that a skimmer isn't so much a necessity if you have a refugium but I know I will most likely get one in the future.


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> Alright so right now I have my system up and running! I have the sand (not live) in the main tank, my mixed sea water and my thermometer is up a running! I look forward to adding the reef saver rock in a week or so  As for my sump I have 10lbs of live sand (hoping to add maybe 10 more lbs) and am seeking some macro algae but can't find any around here...could I just substitute the algae for live rock? I do have two section filled with filter mesh and was wondering if I need anything else for my sump? like Bio bags or anything? I heard that a skimmer isn't so much a necessity if you have a refugium but I know I will most likely get one in the future.


Skimmer isn't needed in small tanks or for those running a algae scrubber. Larger tanks its basically a must to remove those organics.


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## OctoCamo

Alright thanks for all the tips! Just a couple more questions I i will hopefully know what I am doing. Alright so I have dry "live" rock in my tank now and am wondering do I need to construct caves with them? I mean I have small holes and spaces in between some rocks for fish to swim past and even a very small cave maybe for a crab but do I need large ones for a fish to hide in or can they do without? Also what would you suggest for a cleanup crew? I was hoping to place a starfish in the tank but i guess that would be at a later time and they would be good for a "sand sifter" ? What about some sort of crab? Is there a place that gives you the job title of each creature for your tank?

Thanks guys for all your help!


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> Alright thanks for all the tips! Just a couple more questions I i will hopefully know what I am doing. Alright so I have dry "live" rock in my tank now and am wondering do I need to construct caves with them? I mean I have small holes and spaces in between some rocks for fish to swim past and even a very small cave maybe for a crab but do I need large ones for a fish to hide in or can they do without? Also what would you suggest for a cleanup crew? I was hoping to place a starfish in the tank but i guess that would be at a later time and they would be good for a "sand sifter" ? What about some sort of crab? Is there a place that gives you the job title of each creature for your tank?
> 
> Thanks guys for all your help!


Your on the right track with everything your thinking about. Sand Sifter would be ok, they don't live long in a newly established tank though. Later, sure. As for aquascaping, its all in what your eye wants your tank to look like. The fish like to have some hiding spots when spooked, but then again, they use them for territory also. Click on peoples aquariums to get an idea of what maybe you want your tank to look like.
Easy Buy Bundles - Build Your Own Reef Cleaner Package


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## OctoCamo

What a fantastic site! Thanks for the link  Well I guess I should of asked this before but how deep a sand bed do I need for a 75 gallon? Right now I have 60lbs of sand that is slightly over 1", 2" in some spots. As for a water change do you recommend 20% every week and 50% each month? I heard to use distilled water as well.


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## Reefing Madness

OctoCamo said:


> What a fantastic site! Thanks for the link  Well I guess I should of asked this before but how deep a sand bed do I need for a 75 gallon? Right now I have 60lbs of sand that is slightly over 1", 2" in some spots. As for a water change do you recommend 20% every week and 50% each month? I heard to use distilled water as well.


3-4" Sand bed is good. And you can do a 10% water change per week or 25% monthy. This would depend on water quality issues also as to how often you do change. But thats the norm.


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## AZDesertRat

A decorative sand bed should be 1" or less so it can be vacuumed and does not collect detritus. A functioning deep sand bed needs to be 5-6" deep for proper denitrification in the anaerobic and anoxic zones.
Depths in between can be a challenge since they trap detritus but cannot fully process it since it does not have sufficient anaerobic bacteria to do so.


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## Reefing Madness

AZDesertRat said:


> A decorative sand bed should be 1" or less so it can be vacuumed and does not collect detritus. A functioning deep sand bed needs to be 5-6" deep for proper denitrification in the anaerobic and anoxic zones.
> Depths in between can be a challenge since they trap detritus but cannot fully process it since it does not have sufficient anaerobic bacteria to do so.


I'll agree to that, but not everyone is in it for those reasons. What it looks like on the other hand does appeal more to the average reefing person. And the 3-4" sand bed will not hurt anything, especially if it is Live Sand. Crushed Coral on the other hand does tend to hold alot of detritus, I can vouch for that. And a 1" sand bed looks like crap. It doesn't even come above the tanks border line.  No offense DR


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## AZDesertRat

The 3-4" sand bed can lead to problems. It will trap detritus but cannot process it completely due to insufficient anaerobic bacteria. You will end up siphoning it, exposing what anaerobic and anoxic bacteria that are present causing toxic conditions.

Reefing Madness, you may want to brush up on DSBs.


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## Reefing Madness

AZDesertRat said:


> The 3-4" sand bed can lead to problems. It will trap detritus but cannot process it completely due to insufficient anaerobic bacteria. You will end up siphoning it, exposing what anaerobic and anoxic bacteria that are present causing toxic conditions.
> 
> Reefing Madness, you may want to brush up on DSBs.


I never mentioned DSB in here. If i did it would have been 6-8" sand bed then. And Crushed Coral does not compact enough, you are right, but, the sand does. Its heavy enough to keep the crap floating about, albet, some does get in, but not near as much as a CC bed. I guess if we got on the same page about the type of Sand, thenwe might be in business and not going bck and forth here. I'm talkin the fine sand bed, that nothing gets through. I believe its called +0 Xfine.


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## AZDesertRat

The original posters question was how deep of a sand bed was needed. I answered as accurately as possible to not have problems. In between depths are not a good idea. Been doing this 30 years, and was able to study DSBs with one of Dr. Ron Schimeks graduate students so I think I have a good handle on it by now.
Ron Shimek's Website


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## Reefing Madness

And mine has been 3-4" for over 6 years. Hmm. Think I have a handle on mine also........ I'm out. Its all yours. Its advise, not a bickering constest man.
*NA*


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