# Guidance Required. Newbie on the loose :)



## ec8

First of all, hi to all.

I'm very new to this, so please bear with me.

My wish. Marine, L shape. 240LTRS thats the one in the lower left corner  

So I have just been quoted a long list of equipment by one of the local shops, which I am seeing as slightly overkill. Could someone give me a hint if this is any good or not. 

8mm glass all round + 8mm double bottom & straps
cover glass 
base sheet - polystyrene 
base sheet - marine plywood 
filter - Eheim 2217 x 2
filtering material - wool 100g
filtering material - Ehfimech 1 ltr x2
filtering material - Ehfifix 1 ltr
filtering material - Eheim Substrate Pro. x2
pump - Eheim compact 1000
heater - jagger 200 watt
air pump - Tetra APS 300
air pump accessories - [pipe, valves, stone etc.]
cooler - Teco TR10
for cooler : pump Eheim 1048
for cooler : double tap 12/16 x 2
for cooler : pipes & fittings [as per use] approximate
protein skimmer - Sander Maxi Skim 500
lighting - covetragear starter unit x 8
lighting - tube - triplus 36" x 2
lighting - tube - marine 36"
lighting - tube - blue moon 36"
lighting tube - triplus 18" x 2
lighting tube - marine 18"
lighting tube - blue moon 18"
sand - receiving in about 2 week x 3
hydrometer Tetra
marine salt Tetra 8kg

total €
2973.30


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## GetITCdot

they are telling you you need all that for a 63 gallon tank? these guys are out of their mind. Do yourself a favor and read some posts on this forum about filtration and lighting and do a little homework before you go believing everything your LFS tells you.


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## mk4gti

If your a newbie a tank of that size might not be good for you. You dont wanna waste money on equiptment and fish only to have them die. Start out with something smaller and less complex. Learn the ins and outs of building a good ecosystem in your tank and keeping the correct water peramaters.


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## ec8

Regarding size of tank its not realy something with options, if I go smaller now, I wont be able to go larger then. So.. what should I shoot of the list?


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## archer772

I would stay with the size tank you have picked out or go even larger if you can.
I would never use a Cannister filter instead go with a Sump/Fuge.
I wouldnt waste my time with an air driven PS instead go with a small cone skimmer.
You dont need air pumps.
Get a refractometer instead of Hydrometer.
I would get your tank drilled for over flow and return and if needed you can run your chiller off the return I believe.
You will need 2-3 nice power heads like the Koralia's or Tunze's for circulation because you dont want all your flow from the return.


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## mk4gti

whats the price they gave you on all that equiptment. Sometimes they just tell u that you need all these things cuz they are making money of the sales. I understand the desire to get the biggest tank you can but also consider your experince and the fact that this is going to cost you a fair amount of money


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## archer772

Just remember the larger the tank to a point the easier it will be to keep the water parameters stable, I always recomend 55-90 for a first time SW setup.


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## beaslbob

I would try if possible to make the long leg 48" (4') so you can use utility fixtures from home depot. They are $10 here and the 2 tubes 6500k cost $8

For a fish tank you don't need all the equipment.

Here's what I would to.

1) use play sand. 50 pounds cost $3 or so.

2) mix crushed oyster shells with the sand.

3) use porus landscape rocks for decorations. Some even used to make structures by siliconing together lava type rocks.

4) use the short side for a refugium and grow plant like macro algaes there such as the various caulerpas and perhaps shaving brushes or mermaid fans. with egg crate (1/4" square plastic grid light diffusers) as a partition to keep the fish in the long side.

5) light the refugium side with spiral compact flourescent lights in round spot reflectors.

6) add a few powerheads for circulation.

set it up with the macros but no fish for a week.

then add 4-5 male mollys and not add food for a week.

Then start feeding a couple of flakes per day.

then at about 3 weeks start adding the true marine fish.

But that's just what I would do.

And it's worth .02 max.


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## beaslbob

Oh yea, the main idea of above is to first establish the plant life and then do the rest.

Hope that didn't get lost in all the details.


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## ec8

Archer: I realy cant go any bigger, well maybe just a little deeper if i mange but nothing seriouse. So, if I go sump instead of cannisters, what size requirment would I be looking at?

Beaselbob: As previously said, I just might be able to add some depth but deffinitely not lenght. The quoted sand is not that expensive, so I might aswell go with it. I would not be very keen to partinioning the aquarium, since this way I would block fish out of the most visible are of the aquarium. 

Thanks all for the info, I shall be in contact with the shop, and see what they say. Keep them coming if you have something else to point out.


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## archer772

When setting up a sump/fuge you will want to go with as big of a tank as you can fit under your tank inside your stand. The reason I dont like cannister filters is they need to be cleaned on a regular schedual because any mechanical filter will trap fish waste and food and they will break down into nitrates then unless cleaned they will continue to produce nitrates. The sump/fuge doesnt really need to be cleaned once running properly and thats just a matter of getting macro algeas growing and having your protien skimmer running and then all you need to do is clean the skimmer cup and remove some macro algea when it fills the fuge section. The sump/fuge will give you a place to dose, top off, put your heater and that way you wont see any water level fluctuations in the display and you could also add a ATO (automatic top off) and run it to the sump.


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## ec8

Always keep in consideration that a noob is speaking..... but wont the sump being under the main aquarium make it easy for gravity to have its impact. 

Im assuming here, you get water by gravity to the sump, and back to the aquarium by pump. what happens if the pump fails? You end up emptying the aquarium in the sump (and on the floor)?

Ok, and as big as possible but will something around 1/4 of the main aquarium do? Thats about all I have space for.


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## archer772

OK lets see if I can make this easy to understand oh and I had problems understanding until I saw one in action. When you drill a tank it will be done on the back glass or the bottom, when done on the bottom there will be stand pipes installed and those are just PVC pipe glued into the bulkheads and then a front cover with notches cut into the top for the water to over flow and then go down the PVC. The water in your display can only go down as far as the notches in the cover plate and that would only be about 1 inch on the average and the overflow can only take as much water as the pump puts back into the aquarium. The overflow cant loose syphon with a power outage so no need to worry about that and as long as there is enough room in the sump it cant overflow that way either.
This is my tank that was drilled on the back glass near the bottom but it gives you an idea on what I am talking about I hope.



















This is the sump that goes with it and as you can see the one baffle (glass partion) only goes about half way up and thats where the water level is so I have half of the sump for water to flow into when pumps are shut down










I hope this makes it easier to under stand but if not keep asking questions


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## archer772

What is the lighting you are looking at getting, are the bulbs T-12, T-8 or T-5


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## ec8

That sure helps archer, in my case I will have to find a way to get the supply/drain tubing from the sides and not the back. It might be a little problem since if you have a look at the aquarium drawing the sides are back to back with stone (which im thinking of making hollow to store the equipment / sump in ). 

For example one would have the sump with the incoming and outgoing drilled trough one side. On the opposite side I would have the chiller, same story both drilled trough the same side. On both tubeing going trough under the gravel to have intake and supply on the opposite sides of the aquarium. Hope that makes sens  

Re lighting I havnt got a clue, it was never stated in the quote.


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## ec8

below please find the prices ,about skimmer i have written 2 models to choose from,and about lightning depanding on what your going to use!

if your going to use metal halide i can have them with 150.00 euro each ,buti can give you good discount on them!

1base foam sheet 8.95 
1 haqos external filter 1000 l /h complete with filter media 52.50 
1 300w visitherm heater 19.95 
1 air pump 5504 hailea 8.95 
1air accessories - [pipe, valves, stone etc.] 5.00 
1 protein skimmer haqos 300 or 37.50 
1 skimmer instant ocean 400l + extra spare pump spare 120.00 
tubes or haildes depanding on what you prefer 

4 sand 5kg each white @ 8.25 each 33.00 
1 glass hydrometer 2.50 
1 instant ocean sea salt 8 kg 25.00 

This is what another shop just quoted me. 1/10 of the price, but no chiller and lighting.


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## archer772

Well if you are having this tank built for you then figure out where the sump/fuge will be located and have the bottom drilled and then just have holes put int the stand that way you wont see any of it except for the cover. I would go with T-5 lighting incase you go with corals or are going to be adding corals. The nice thing with having a tank custom built is you can get everything done the way you want shape, size and overflows.


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## archer772

This would be much happier with a skimmer like this IMO
Bubble Magus NAC6 Protein Skimmer
I am not sure why they are trying to get you to buy air pumps and acceseries because they are not needed or wanted in SW setup because they will just cause salt creep


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## ec8

Dunno! 

So to get my toughts straight, 
I cannot do without:
The Chiller

Can do without:
Mechcanical filtering (if I go with the sump)
Air Pump + Accesories

Still doubtfull:
Ammount of light is this realy neccessary? Almost 20ft of lighting.


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## GetITCdot

ec8 said:


> Dunno!
> 
> So to get my toughts straight,
> I cannot do without:
> The Chiller
> 
> Can do without:
> Mechcanical filtering (if I go with the sump)
> Air Pump + Accesories
> 
> Still doubtfull:
> Ammount of light is this realy neccessary? Almost 20ft of lighting.


You don't really need a chiller ether. They are handy but not a NEED


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## ec8

Well thats the largest price chunk of all, and if temps are way to high I can always tackle the situation there and then and buy the chiller. And having summer temps inside around the 90 deg fehrenite, I think I should consider fish on the higher tempreture spectrum if I wont be getting the chiller.


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## archer772

I am not sure this will be enough but having like a 6 inch clip fan blowing across the sump will do wonders at cooling, dont run glass tops as they hold in the heat and I am not sure if you will be running a wood canopy or open top with a fixture so if a canopy install a couple 80-120 mm fans and if open top a nice clip on fan blowing across the top. I dont know if you said or not but will this be fish only and remain that way or will it be a reef because that could effect the lighting and chiller.


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## ec8

For now I definetly think it will be fish only thank. I'll see how things progress, then reavaluate after some time. Most probably will remain a fish only. I will definetly be running an open back canopy, a few 120mm should be relativly easy to install.


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## archer772

I would only run 2-3 foot bulbs and 2-18 inch bulbs with one of each being a nice crisp daylight bulb and one of each haveing more blue in it. I am not sure I would get a chiller just yet as heat problems seem to have a much greater affect on corals and fish seem to be able to handle higher ranges of heat. I would use retro fit T-5 HO's and then if you move up to corals you could just add more retros at that time without changing your entire lighting. I think you could go with all 24 watt bulbs and they are only 22-23 inches and use something like these because I bet the qoute was probably for T-8's and the T-5 HO's are better lighting.

Sunlight Supply T5 Retrofit System & Kit


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## ec8

Ok, then I will be back in contact with the shops.

Shall be removing the chiller for now, will go with a Sump instead of the mechanical filter. Reduce light fittings to 2 x 36" and 2 x 18". 

And most importantly figure a way to get everything hidden in the little available are I have. 

Shall be back in touch, thanks for all guys!


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## ec8

Excuse me for reviving an extremely old post. 

To throw some history at this, the aquarium went through a lot of changes in as many years since its inception. 

Community, planted, shrimp, and many variations in between, eventually ending up in a community mbuna if I can call it so as shown here - [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxYifjWwDds"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxYifjWwDds[/ame]. This lasted in this form with minor changes in stock for the last 3 years. Where last week a sustained heat spell, pushing water in the mid 30c for 2 weeks killed all the stock, except a 3/4 prince (in house fry).

Each year I tend to lose fish in the summer peak, worst was this year and in 2013 when I lost an entire stock of about 6 congos and most of a community in a 24hr period, which eventually led to the mbuna setup.

If you wish to contribute for the new setup, ideas welcome at http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/new-project-need-ideas-103209.html#post695681


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