# Tank Cleaning Comedy



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll try this again, here goes...I am considering starting my own talk show on cleaning fish aquariums, cleaned mine early today, did not know I would need valium to do it. Had little sleep, not enough coffee and spent my entire morning cleaning my tank then writing on the forum. Keep in mind the old Lucy shows when you read this: How I clean my tank: First, I had everything ready and set up, pretreated the water. Next, I began process by moving fish to large bowls, had great difficulty because they were jumping all over and landing on the floor even while bowls were covered. Now, I know I don't look good in the morning without makeup, but they reacted like their lives were threatened, whether it was from looking at me or emotional trauma seeing the fish net, whatever. I get all fish out, then remove crabs, covered them, this was tricky, too. So, I carry empty tank into kitchen, rinse it, water was not as bad as I thought, never found the spinach one crab hid under cave. I chose not to use cheap gravel vac, tank is too low to floor, so I return tank to livingroom, put water, creatures, everything back in. Had to re-live fish jumping out of bowls, at this point, I did feel like Lucy, couldn't keep up with them too well. I also added Tetra's Easy Balance, would like to personally thank the inventor. I added aquarium salt that store insisted I use, and I now know a mix would be better, I also have natural sea salt without iodine. I now know, too, about brackish water crabs need that store did not tell me about.

So, I get everything done, all creatures are happy, rock cave is arranged properly, dogs left me alone, stray cat was purring because he wanted my attention and more tuna. This is the cat we bathed last night, he nipped and scratched me, I treated my arm myself, and am allergic to cats. He was just playing. I will still read about salt and am happy I got thru this ok, salt issue may go on awhile because every source I check with is different. Wish stores could inform people better even after I asked. But, one last thought so you will know how I really felt about this tank cleaning, and how it correlates with past experience: Say you worked in a hospital, 10 out of 30 patients all had problems at same time that required immediate attention, what is the first thing you should do? The very first thing before anything else? Answer- get in that break room and have a cup of coffee! LOL, hope someone finds my story entertaining, wish Ellen could have been here, gotta check for crab #4 and have some iced tea. Later...


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

um... that's not how you clean a tank... that's how you kill a tank's cycle.
cb


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> um... that's not how you clean a tank... that's how you kill a tank's cycle.
> cb


I see your point, don't think you see mine, I'm doing whatever it takes to maintain crab environment. I went thru fishy smell, cloudy water, tried water treatments, partial water changes, had no choice but to start over. It will begin a new cycle, crabs now have land, I just bought driftwood for them, have added what I thought was right salt and something to balance water. Now, do you see what I've been through with crabs or why I was so concerned about their care when store gave me wrong advice? Do you have any tips for my aquarium? Salt advice? I'm here in case you write, I felt I had no choice but to start over. Read some people kept crabs in FW tank with little salt and they were fine. I'm new to crabs and even newer because of misinformation from the store. Let me know what you think, thanks!


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> I'll try this again, here goes...I am considering starting my own talk show on cleaning fish aquariums, cleaned mine early today, did not know I would need valium to do it. Had little sleep, not enough coffee and spent my entire morning cleaning my tank then writing on the forum. Keep in mind the old Lucy shows when you read this: How I clean my tank: First, I had everything ready and set up, pretreated the water. Next, I began process by moving fish to large bowls, had great difficulty because they were jumping all over and landing on the floor even while bowls were covered. Now, I know I don't look good in the morning without makeup, but they reacted like their lives were threatened, whether it was from looking at me or emotional trauma seeing the fish net, whatever. I get all fish out, then remove crabs, covered them, this was tricky, too. So, I carry empty tank into kitchen, rinse it, water was not as bad as I thought, never found the spinach one crab hid under cave. I chose not to use cheap gravel vac, tank is too low to floor, so I return tank to livingroom, put water, creatures, everything back in. Had to re-live fish jumping out of bowls, at this point, I did feel like Lucy, couldn't keep up with them too well. I also added Tetra's Easy Balance, would like to personally thank the inventor. I added aquarium salt that store insisted I use, and I now know a mix would be better, I also have natural sea salt without iodine. I now know, too, about brackish water crabs need that store did not tell me about.
> 
> So, I get everything done, all creatures are happy, rock cave is arranged properly, dogs left me alone, stray cat was purring because he wanted my attention and more tuna. This is the cat we bathed last night, he nipped and scratched me, I treated my arm myself, and am allergic to cats. He was just playing. I will still read about salt and am happy I got thru this ok, salt issue may go on awhile because every source I check with is different. Wish stores could inform people better even after I asked. But, one last thought so you will know how I really felt about this tank cleaning, and how it correlates with past experience: Say you worked in a hospital, 10 out of 30 patients all had problems at same time that required immediate attention, what is the first thing you should do? The very first thing before anything else? Answer- get in that break room and have a cup of coffee! LOL, hope someone finds my story entertaining, wish Ellen could have been here, gotta check for crab #4 and have some iced tea. Later...



Okay, the deal of the day! I just bought $10 driftwood for $2.64 at pet store, am boiling it now in natural sea salt water, will add to tank when it cools off. Hope driftwood does not leech, this is light tan, the rest of wood they had was dark brown. Hope I did the right thing. Any advice is appreciated, thanks!


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Sorry to say, but I see a crash and burn on this tank in the near future. 

1.Every time you do this type of cleaning is sending the tank into a new cycling process and will never cycle. 

2. The reason you are getting a fishy smell is because your tank is over stocked.

3. Stop messing with the salt till you learn how to take care of what you have. The crabs will do fine for a year without brackish, if they live that long. 

4. Read up on the fish that you have. Most of them won't deal with sea salt and you can not combine freshwater fish with brackish water critters and have both happy and live very long.

5. Go to a library and check out a few books on keeping aquariums. Read them several times. Then you will know what to look for.

6. If you don't want to do what is advised, I suggest you find another hobby.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

susankat said:


> Sorry to say, but I see a crash and burn on this tank in the near future.
> 
> 1.Every time you do this type of cleaning is sending the tank into a new cycling process and will never cycle.
> 
> ...


I am surprised/shocked at your comments, I understand what you wrote before you wrote it, I am not "messing" with salt but asking about it, there are errors in information I got about crabs, I have looked up fish before adding them, No, I don't need a library, that is why people use computers, and libraries are not busy here, and I don't appreciate you suggesting I find another hobby. Maybe you can write nicely and help rather than come across as scolding, a forum like a library or computer helps with learning, I wish you had helped instead of not helping.


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

People _are_ trying to be helpful, actually. Just because the advice you are given isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it bad advice. You've already been told that you need to separate the fish and the crabs and that your tank is overstocked, yet you've ignored that advice. Forums like this only work as a resource for information if you actually use that information to better the lives of your stock.

100% water changes are never a good idea and invertabrates are especially sensitive to fluctuations in water parameters. You're setting your fish and crabs up for disaster by doing that. 

Also, whenever a fish, invertabrate or even plant dies, your first reaction should NOT be to rush out to the store and replace it with a new one. Your reaction should be to investigate and figure out why that animal or plant died so you can make changes and avoid more deaths. No additional stock of any kind should be added until those changes are made.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

Miss Vicky said:


> People _are_ trying to be helpful, actually. Just because the advice you are given isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it bad advice. You've already been told that you need to separate the fish and the crabs and that your tank is overstocked, yet you've ignored that advice. Forums like this only work as a resource for information if you actually use that information to better the lives of your stock.
> 
> 100% water changes are never a good idea and invertabrates are especially sensitive to fluctuations in water parameters. You're setting your fish and crabs up for disaster by doing that.
> 
> Also, whenever a fish, invertabrate or even plant dies, your first reaction should NOT be to rush out to the store and replace it with a new one. Your reaction should be to investigate and figure out why that animal or plant died so you can make changes and avoid more deaths. No additional stock of any kind should be added until those changes are made.


It has nothing to do with what I want to hear, I have read that people keep fish and crabs together, my tank is not overstocked, I have read advice on forum, I know 100% water changes are not a good idea, have had excellent results before with water changes, I did explain I can't get 2nd tank right now, plus I thought this forum had a section for beginners and if so, do you treat them this way, too? Someone forgot I did ask about crabs because store did not give correct information , and I know to investigate any creature death, plus you should read the controversy about salt then figure out why people may be confused when they get confusing information in the first place, and if your forum can't be courteous and appreciate someone with the efforts I have made, then maybe you should not be writing if you can't be more helpful. I am disappointed in both responses and I have spoken with people who were nice and responded to me appropriately, you must not have read my posts. You also think there is something I want to "hear", what I want to hear are responses from members who can share and maintain some kind of conversation, but not scolding or demanding, like I just read. Hope you or other member can write and explain what any forum is for?


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Why be shocked, or surprised, several of your posts contain info for you and you don't want to listen. Also in the library you might find the books to be better info that all the conflicting info on the internet.

Also concerning salt, all the info is basically the same, but different salts has different uses, and what you need for your crabs is marine salt and your fish won't like it. And yes your tank is over stocked 10 fish + 4 crabs makes it over stocked.

But it is your tank, Good luck with it.


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Sorry to those who are going to get pissed at this one. But I told you so Sue. Get as mad as you want to. Your a Mod, and this should not have happened.
CrazyCrab is correct in here feeling dised. I read it the same way she did. Not very nice. PM all day the way you want to, but your not supposed to dis anyone on the site.
Rules-
3. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. *We take politeness very seriously*. You are welcome to challenge others points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Miss Vicky said:


> People _are_ trying to be helpful, actually. Just because the advice you are given isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it bad advice. You've already been told that you need to separate the fish and the crabs and that your tank is overstocked, yet you've ignored that advice. Forums like this only work as a resource for information if you actually use that information to better the lives of your stock.
> 
> 100% water changes are never a good idea and invertabrates are especially sensitive to fluctuations in water parameters. You're setting your fish and crabs up for disaster by doing that.
> 
> Also, whenever a fish, invertabrate or even plant dies, your first reaction should NOT be to rush out to the store and replace it with a new one. Your reaction should be to investigate and figure out why that animal or plant died so you can make changes and avoid more deaths. No additional stock of any kind should be added until those changes are made.


Very tastefully done.


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> I know 100% water changes are not a good idea


Then why did you do it?




> have had excellent results before with water changes


Clearly you've not actually had "excellent results" as you've had one crab die already, after which you "[drove] thru heavy traffic while food is on stove, on low, to exchange crab."



> I thought this forum had a section for beginners and if so, do you treat them this way, too?


It does. And yes, beginners (like myself) are - quite rightly - given advice on how to correct their newbie mistakes. And, like on every other pet forum I've joined, members get frustrated when their advice is ignored. 



> I know to investigate any creature death


Yet you still rushed out and got a new crab right away. 



> Then maybe you should not be writing if you can't be more helpful. I am disappointed in both responses and I have spoken with people who were nice and responded to me appropriately, you must not have read my posts. You also think there is something I want to "hear", what I want to hear are responses from members who can share and maintain some kind of conversation, but not scolding or demanding, like I just read. Hope you or other member can write and explain what any forum is for?


I'm not scolding or demanding, I'm telling you that you've made a mistake in doing a 100% water change. I'm also telling you that it was wrong to go out and immediately replace your dead crab - which I only even know about because I HAVE read your posts. 

Forums are for the exchange of ideas and information. In this case, the purpose is for aquarists new and old to share their experiences and learn from what others have done. But, again, this exchange of information only works if you actually allow yourself to learn from the experience of others and not repeat the mistakes made by those who've been in the hobby longer. 

Regardless of how you feel about the way you've been treated on this forum, please remember that the mistakes you make as an aquarist will be paid for not by you but by the animals you keep. And it may very well cost them their lives.


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Reefing Madness said:


> Sorry to those who are going to get pissed at this one. But I told you so Sue. Get as mad as you want to. Your a Mod, and this should not have happened.
> CrazyCrab is correct in here feeling dised. I read it the same way she did. Not very nice. PM all day the way you want to, but your not supposed to dis anyone on the site.
> Rules-
> 3. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. *We take politeness very seriously*. You are welcome to challenge others points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully


Brian it was not a personal attack, I stated the truth, this person has been told things several times even in pm's. She doesn't want to listen fine. I just stated the facts. The tank will crash and burn, if she doesn't want the help and it has been given to her thats fine. Don't keep asking till you hear what you want to hear. 

She might feel dissed, but imagine how I feel after several pms a day from her and telling her in pms and then turn around and basically say everyones info is so different I'll just do it my way. When you know as well as I do with the way she is doing it, she will crash that tank.

And none of what I posted was rude, just facts. And if she doesn't want to learn to do it the right way, she does need to find another hobby. My main concern is the welfare of fish and their care.


----------



## Puppylove (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree that you can still correct someone and help them, but in a kind manner. She is obviously still learning and I think she should do her best to listen to the advice given and keep researching/ learning not choose a new hobby. I thought forums were supposed to be encouraging? Here are my ideas of what I would do: let the tank cycle and don't clean the gravel. Do small water changes while letting the good bacteria build up to main tain water quality. Buy a new tank for the crabs (easier said than done) or bring them back to where you got them. I would not add marine salt to your tank. I believe the "salt controversy" is about freshwater aquarium salt, which some people think is useless/ possibly harmful and others think it is helpful. Oh, also, I keep my fish in the tank while cleaning and doing water changes. It makes it a LOT easier.  I just get the suction using some plastic tubing and do water changes that way. Good luck- I see that you care about your creatures and want to do what's best for them. Don't give up, it takes practice.


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

The nice thing about this forum is that 99% of us want the same thing. Sue is part of that 99% and I feel for her - I do.

Our hearts are in the right places Crazy - but some of us like to defend the fish in conditions that are either not ideal or simply a disaster waiting to happen. 
Unfortunately your tank falls in the later category.

What I would do for a friend that I wanted to talk to again in your circumstances is to let you know that you're risking the lives of your pets. I'm sure that's not your intention. With this in mind - and knowing that you've just acquired a new crab - Please just take it back to the store - It doesn't deserve to be in cramped conditions or be at risk during your cycling process.

Then, we need to look at cycling an aquarium properly and how to do it with the livestock that you have in there. If re-homing all the fish temporarily to a safe place is possible, you can look at a fishless cycle. 

You also need to understand that you cannot beat the nitrogen cycle. It's the single most valuable tool that nature has of cleaning up the waste of our fish which will kill them in an aquarium otherwise. It takes at least 4 weeks of diligent measurement and water changes to complete and longer to build up to where it needs to be.

Fish of all kinds need water clean of ammonia, and Nitrites and with tolerable levels of Nitrates. Your current methodology of cleaning your tank under the tap kills the bacteria that permits your tank to convert the dangerous ammonia and nitrites produced into the safer Nitrates - which you should be controlling with water changes. Tap water kills bacteria - making it safe for human consumption but unsafe for keeping fish in. Without this bacteria, the fish are essentially living in a backed up toilet.

Yes, this is a harsh reality. Most people give up the hobby within a year. I sense that you will be successful in the long term because of your attitude to having to to the work - but you don't yet understand the basics.

It's a good place to be and with Susan and people like her around, you are in good hands. Also remember that the internet has allowed the hobby to progress at it's fastest rate yet with people sharing information and trying out new things more than at any time in the hobby. It's exciting and there's always something new to learn from someone!

Anyway, I wish you well and hope that one day you too will see a newcomer here and remember how you were treated and maybe be a little gentler than Susan was! But for sure, you'll learn to understand her!

cb


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> I'll try this again, here goes...I am considering starting my own talk show on cleaning fish aquariums, cleaned mine early today, did not know I would need valium to do it. Had little sleep, not enough coffee and spent my entire morning cleaning my tank then writing on the forum. Keep in mind the old Lucy shows when you read this: How I clean my tank: First, I had everything ready and set up, pretreated the water. Next, I began process by moving fish to large bowls, had great difficulty because they were jumping all over and landing on the floor even while bowls were covered. Now, I know I don't look good in the morning without makeup, but they reacted like their lives were threatened, whether it was from looking at me or emotional trauma seeing the fish net, whatever. I get all fish out, then remove crabs, covered them, this was tricky, too. So, I carry empty tank into kitchen, rinse it, water was not as bad as I thought, never found the spinach one crab hid under cave. I chose not to use cheap gravel vac, tank is too low to floor, so I return tank to livingroom, put water, creatures, everything back in. Had to re-live fish jumping out of bowls, at this point, I did feel like Lucy, couldn't keep up with them too well. I also added Tetra's Easy Balance, would like to personally thank the inventor. I added aquarium salt that store insisted I use, and I now know a mix would be better, I also have natural sea salt without iodine. I now know, too, about brackish water crabs need that store did not tell me about.
> 
> So, I get everything done, all creatures are happy, rock cave is arranged properly, dogs left me alone, stray cat was purring because he wanted my attention and more tuna. This is the cat we bathed last night, he nipped and scratched me, I treated my arm myself, and am allergic to cats. He was just playing. I will still read about salt and am happy I got thru this ok, salt issue may go on awhile because every source I check with is different. Wish stores could inform people better even after I asked. But, one last thought so you will know how I really felt about this tank cleaning, and how it correlates with past experience: Say you worked in a hospital, 10 out of 30 patients all had problems at same time that required immediate attention, what is the first thing you should do? The very first thing before anything else? Answer- get in that break room and have a cup of coffee! LOL, hope someone finds my story entertaining, wish Ellen could have been here, gotta check for crab #4 and have some iced tea. Later...


Hi Crazy

I was thinking ,if you feel you just can't let some of the fish go how about a plastic storage container for the twelve fish you have if they are small. They sell 80 litre ones on Amazon (about 17 gallons I think) There was a pack of three for £24.50 so on average that would be about £8 for one container, also you can possibly get larger than that so that part wouldn't be expensive, but as you know would have to add a Filter and heater.

I was thinking about this as a temporary measure untill you get things sorted out.I can't/won't comment about the Crabs because i know nothing about them apart from googling a couple of times about the salt issue. I did read on one part that the ordinary Aquarium salt is okay and wouldn't have adverse effects on other fish but i'm really not sure.
btw I did reply on your other thread about all this earlier this morning and it was a very long post, i clicked on submit and it vanished into cyberspace then, I saw i hadn't logged in tsk.

I hope you get this sorted out Crazy
Talk later.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Sorry to those who are going to get pissed at this one. But I told you so Sue. Get as mad as you want to. Your a Mod, and this should not have happened.
> CrazyCrab is correct in here feeling dised. I read it the same way she did. Not very nice. PM all day the way you want to, but your not supposed to dis anyone on the site.
> Rules-
> 3. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. *We take politeness very seriously*. You are welcome to challenge others points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully


I didnt see it as a personal attack..read her other posts..she just doesnt want to listen..I have had the same problem with a few others, i have 40+ years of experience and you try to explain things to people and they turn around and tell you i dont like your answer so im going to do it this way..then why the hell did you ask in the first place.I'm almost to the point to where im not going to give my advise anymore if they are just going to waste my time. Again it was not an attck it was facts..if she continues down the road she is on her tank will crash, and very badly.

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

susankat said:


> Why be shocked, or surprised, several of your posts contain info for you and you don't want to listen. Also in the library you might find the books to be better info that all the conflicting info on the internet.
> 
> Also concerning salt, all the info is basically the same, but different salts has different uses, and what you need for your crabs is marine salt and your fish won't like it. And yes your tank is over stocked 10 fish + 4 crabs makes it over stocked.
> 
> But it is your tank, Good luck with it.


Why did you think I did not want to listen? The more I read and the more I talked to different stores, the more I got different answers. So, by reading about it alot on the forum, I pay attention to all answers then find a common one which sounds like the best answer. Then, when I determine how to make my tank water conditions I can go by the best, most common advice. I also read about low, medium, and high brackish water so you can mix the right salts and get the kind of water you want. I agree, the fish will not like marine salt and I hope to get a 2nd tank but can't yet. That's why I was worried about making water right for fish and crabs without any deaths until I can start a 2nd tank. But, I enjoy reading responses because you can learn so much from people, especially ones with experience. I could go to the library but would rather be home then I can type and look at my tank at the same time. I also got all goldfish out and the tropicals I have are all small and about the same size and they get along. Have had tanks years ago and found that when I did water changes the fish were ok. Our platys kept having babies over and over. Thanks for writing, I was offended I think, and maybe you were having a bad day, my tank cleaning story was meant to make people laugh. I'm under too much pressure at home which is why I was irritable I think and I was desperate to laugh.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> I didnt see it as a personal attack..read her other posts..she just doesnt want to listen..I have had the same problem with a few others, i have 40+ years of experience and you try to explain things to people and they turn around and tell you i dont like your answer so im going to do it this way..then why the hell did you ask in the first place.I'm almost to the point to where im not going to give my advise anymore if they are just going to waste my time. Again it was not an attck it was facts..if she continues down the road she is on her tank will crash, and very badly.
> 
> Rick


 Just found your post and wondered if you were referring to me? Its not that I am not listening, I am trying to get best advice/answer on how to solve brackish water and salt. The more I was misinformed by a store and the more I read, the more confusing it became which made me more determined to find the best solution. I can't get a 2nd tank right now so I have no choice but to keep fish and crabs together and I need to make them all happy. I had a 20 gal tank years ago with tropicals, eel, loaches, platys, tetras, danios, you name it, and when I did water changes they were all fine. I don't do them as often as you think, it was recently I tried so I could keep tank running. But when I read the first post I have to admit I was offended because a forum should be a learning tool where you exchange info from others,..I like reading all responses, that helps me to learn. 

But, if you do not want to give advice, that's ok if you don't. My tank has made me very happy because it gave me good reason to get my mind off things that I must deal with right now that are critical, so I focus on my tank to distract myself from things occurring here that I can't control. Does what I wrote make you feel better so far?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi crazy

I'm sorry to hear your under a lot of pressure. I was about three years ago and the effect it had on me made me feel a completely different person to what i really am. i just coudn't think straightbut, i think possibly thats a similar feeling for anyone stressed out.


Hope you feel lighter soon))

goldie


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> The nice thing about this forum is that 99% of us want the same thing. Sue is part of that 99% and I feel for her - I do.
> 
> Our hearts are in the right places Crazy - but some of us like to defend the fish in conditions that are either not ideal or simply a disaster waiting to happen.
> Unfortunately your tank falls in the later category.
> ...


 Its nice that you feel for Sue but I am also part of this forum, where we should all be able to share, converse, exchange and learn from each other. Maybe you have not read all my posts that indicate my strong efforts to care for my pets. Remember, you aren't here and you do not know my experience from years ago with a fish aquarium and tropicals. I know people want to defend pets and I didn't think my tank belonged in the latter category you put it in. Fish and water are fine, I watch them closely every day and more often than you think. I don't know that the word "disaster" actually does apply here.

You also unfortunately don't know me or all my experience with dogs, cats, birds, hamsters, rabbits, hermits, resident yard mole, squirrels, chipmunks, feeding stray animals, how to rescue animals hit by cars, how to reverse a dog from animal cruelty from first owner to no cruelty from second new owner, how to properly housebreak a puppy, how to recognize illness in pets, what to do when riding a horse that runs you into a tree, water animal rescue, investigating cruelty in neighborhood, adopting animals that need a home the most, being totally against dog fighting and trying to do something about it, being a volunteer at the humane society and a speaker on behalf of those animals, etc.

I did explain that I can't get a second tank at the moment, I have no choice but to maintain what I have, again, you don't understand why or my situation. And yes, I know the basics of having a fish tank, tap water, chlorine, ammonia, nitrites, phosphates, minerals, salt, fish types, etc. and I have the proper additives to use as needed. Also have new heater, filter, and air stone.

I've spent more money on this tank than you can imagine, so I must care about it or would not be on a forum learning everything that I can that would benefit my fish and crabs. I can keep everyone up to date about my tank status so you will not have to worry about any impending disasters. Thanks for wishing me well, and I hope to write to new members and see if I can help them in any way. I do make the offer clear that I like helping others and pets both, as for Susan, maybe she was having a bad day. And when I joined this forum everyone was great, until last night. But, I still like the concept of a forum when its helpful, not hurtful. Thanks for writing!


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

goldie said:


> Hi crazy
> 
> I'm sorry to hear your under a lot of pressure. I was about three years ago and the effect it had on me made me feel a completely different person to what i really am. i just coudn't think straightbut, i think possibly thats a similar feeling for anyone stressed out.
> 
> ...


Hey there, I am glad you wrote, it is always nice when someone can relate. But, my situation here is not only stressful to where it has caused my health to be affected, but my pressure is in making critical decisions that will take place within the next year or so, too complex to explain. Thank you for being understanding and I feel better knowing someone can relate. Write again soon, maybe we could start a topic on just stress?


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear that I offended you. I saw your post briefly as I was heading out the door and tried to give you a bit of info in a couple of words as to what you were actually doing.
cb


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> You also unfortunately don't know me or all my experience with dogs, cats, birds, hamsters, rabbits, hermits, resident yard mole, squirrels, chipmunks, feeding stray animals, how to rescue animals hit by cars, how to reverse a dog from animal cruelty from first owner to no cruelty from second new owner, how to properly housebreak a puppy, how to recognize illness in pets, what to do when riding a horse that runs you into a tree, water animal rescue, investigating cruelty in neighborhood, adopting animals that need a home the most, being totally against dog fighting and trying to do something about it, being a volunteer at the humane society and a speaker on behalf of those animals, etc.


I know the above post isn't directed at me, but I want to point out that your experience with mammals, birds and hermit crabs is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. 

Also, you still haven't answered my question: Why did you do a 100% water change if, as you say, you knew it was a bad idea?


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

crazycrab28 said:


> Just found your post and wondered if you were referring to me? Its not that I am not listening, I am trying to get best advice/answer on how to solve brackish water and salt. The more I was misinformed by a store and the more I read, the more confusing it became which made me more determined to find the best solution. I can't get a 2nd tank right now so I have no choice but to keep fish and crabs together and I need to make them all happy. I had a 20 gal tank years ago with tropicals, eel, loaches, platys, tetras, danios, you name it, and when I did water changes they were all fine. I don't do them as often as you think, it was recently I tried so I could keep tank running. But when I read the first post I have to admit I was offended because a forum should be a learning tool where you exchange info from others,..I like reading all responses, that helps me to learn.
> 
> But, if you do not want to give advice, that's ok if you don't. My tank has made me very happy because it gave me good reason to get my mind off things that I must deal with right now that are critical, so I focus on my tank to distract myself from things occurring here that I can't control. Does what I wrote make you feel better so far?


At the time of that writing i was not refering to you,but i dont mind helping people, thats one of the reasons i joined this forum, but it gets irritating for someone to ask for adise from a veteran, then be shot down by a new person, if they are going to do what they want why waste your time asking or help, just do it.

Now for your circumstance..i dont think your going to be able to make both fish and crabs happy in the same tank. i understand you cant get another tank right now, so maybe give one or the other a new home until you can.I know you dont wanna here that, but it the humane thing to do

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

goldie said:


> Hi Crazy
> 
> I was thinking ,if you feel you just can't let some of the fish go how about a plastic storage container for the twelve fish you have if they are small. They sell 80 litre ones on Amazon (about 17 gallons I think) There was a pack of three for £24.50 so on average that would be about £8 for one container, also you can possibly get larger than that so that part wouldn't be expensive, but as you know would have to add a Filter and heater.
> 
> ...


Oh hi, thanks for trying to reply, maybe you still can. I like your idea about the plastic storage container, or other choice is buying used tank which I'm leary of, but your idea would work fine! I will look for my spare heater, thanks for thinking of that! And with crabs, there are many people that may not know about them, I was one of them. The stores here still insist on aquarium salt and if I added marine salt I don't want to harm fish, I do have natural sea salt without iodine someone suggested would be ok, but I just wanted to know which salt was best. With plastic storage box, they sell those in most stores here, only thing is: crabs need tank they're in now, it has a very well made screened lid, they can't escape. Fish also need lid, mine are jumpers! I don't know if its out of happiness or what, but they sure are strong little guys! Yeah, this should be able to get sorted out, very glad to hear from you!


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> Hey there, I am glad you wrote, it is always nice when someone can relate. But, my situation here is not only stressful to where it has caused my health to be affected, but my pressure is in making critical decisions that will take place within the next year or so, too complex to explain. Thank you for being understanding and I feel better knowing someone can relate. Write again soon, maybe we could start a topic on just stress?


I must log out now Crazy iv'e been on here lots today but really enjoyed it. hey, try and think of it this way. Don't you think it's lovely being around people that have concern and real feelings about fish because a lot of people don't give a damn about them. I honestly think their trying to help but when we are stressed out do you think we actually hear properly. I didn't crazy, i was so all over the place.It's about whats best for your fish.Hope i'm not sounding patronising, it's not meant to be.
Maybe talk tomorrow? Hope you get some sleep


----------



## FishFin (Jun 26, 2012)

Might as well throw a Great White and 16 angels into that tank as well..


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> At the time of that writing i was not refering to you,but i dont mind helping people, thats one of the reasons i joined this forum, but it gets irritating for someone to ask for adise from a veteran, then be shot down by a new person, if they are going to do what they want why waste your time asking or help, just do it.
> 
> Now for your circumstance..i dont think your going to be able to make both fish and crabs happy in the same tank. i understand you cant get another tank right now, so maybe give one or the other a new home until you can.I know you dont wanna here that, but it the humane thing to do
> 
> Rick


 Oh, I thought you were, but even if you are offended by a new person, maybe what they wrote was interpreted wrong or something? maybe they meant to word it differently, or maybe they are afraid of getting to the point? I don't know their reasons, but, like you said, there is a temporary solution: I could get a large plastic storage box. Only thing is, my crabs and fish both need a lid, my fish jump. I think I have a spare heater, which helps, but I really need a lid.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

FishFin said:


> Might as well throw a Great White and 16 angels into that tank as well..


Already did that, the food bill got so high, we donated him to Shark World. Sure do miss him though.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

crazycrab28 said:


> Oh, I thought you were, but even if you are offended by a new person, maybe what they wrote was interpreted wrong or something? maybe they meant to word it differently, or maybe they are afraid of getting to the point? I don't know their reasons, but, like you said, there is a temporary solution: I could get a large plastic storage box. Only thing is, my crabs and fish both need a lid, my fish jump. I think I have a spare heater, which helps, but I really need a lid.


Ive been doing this for a long time..I know how to interpert peoples words.Please dont insult my intellengence with that garbage. Answer me this, wgy woukd you ever put fish and crabs in the same tank anyway, that part i just dont get..my expert opinion get rid of one or the other.both will be happy in the long run..now seeing you dont want to listen im not wasting my time on this issue anymore..good luck..your going to need it.

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

Miss Vicky said:


> I know the above post isn't directed at me, but I want to point out that your experience with mammals, birds and hermit crabs is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
> 
> Also, you still haven't answered my question: Why did you do a 100% water change if, as you say, you knew it was a bad idea?


One might agree with you, but I love nothing more than bringing a new pet into the household, and I mentioned those pets because each one was unique, I learned alot from them, likewise, when I had my first fish tank, I learned alot just from having it and this was way before anyone had computers and forums and I never caused any disasters to my tank. I have had fish before, learned on my own, did fine. This time maybe its crabs? Not sure yet.

To answer your question about why a 100% water change: A 100% water change was my last resort. Partial changes did not help long enough even beginning with small increments and yet there were times when water remained clear afterwards, went thru cloudy water, algae odor, addition of salt, removal of goldfish (they made water dirty fast), plants were replaced, cave added, rocks added, driftwood much later added after it was disinfected by boiling like store suggested ,fishy odor, one time filter had coating of sludge (replaced that, sludge has not been back since), additon of crabs, and when I introduce new fish they are always acclimated first plus I never put store water in my tank (new fish are placed in large glass bowl first to get acclimated by adding my tank water), but as a last resort and after trying different additives to water (made sure to add correct amount), and new heater and air stone I finally decided to start over and tank still looks crystal clear. I don't like disturbing good bacteria either but felt starting over was right, and I know that upset people, but it was worth a try and so far it has worked. Hope this helps, you must feel differently about this...


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> To answer your question about why a 100% water change: A 100% water change was my last resort. Partial changes did not help long enough even beginning with small increments and yet there were times when water remained clear afterwards, went thru cloudy water, algae odor, addition of salt, removal of goldfish (they made water dirty fast), plants were replaced, cave added, rocks added, driftwood much later added after it was disinfected by boiling like store suggested ,fishy odor, one time filter had coating of sludge (replaced that, sludge has not been back since), additon of crabs, and when I introduce new fish they are always acclimated first plus I never put store water in my tank (new fish are placed in large glass bowl first to get acclimated by adding my tank water), but as a last resort and after trying different additives to water (made sure to add correct amount), and new heater and air stone I finally decided to start over and tank still looks crystal clear. I don't like disturbing good bacteria either but felt starting over was right, and I know that upset people, but it was worth a try and so far it has worked. Hope this helps, you must feel differently about this...


How often were you doing water changes and what percent of water were you changing each time?

From what I've experienced and what I've read, partial changes can be done daily if needed without destroying your bacteria colony. But it's never advisable to remove more than 80% or so, and even less when you're housing invertabrates. I hope for the sake of your animals that your drastic actions won't cause them serious harm, but I've a feeling that the one dead crab won't be the last.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> Ive been doing this for a long time..I know how to interpert peoples words.Please dont insult my intellengence with that garbage. Answer me this, wgy woukd you ever put fish and crabs in the same tank anyway, that part i just dont get..my expert opinion get rid of one or the other.both will be happy in the long run..now seeing you dont want to listen im not wasting my time on this issue anymore..good luck..your going to need it.
> 
> Rick


 I know how, too,


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

obivisly you dont

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> Ive been doing this for a long time..I know how to interpert peoples words.Please dont insult my intellengence with that garbage. Answer me this, wgy woukd you ever put fish and crabs in the same tank anyway, that part i just dont get..my expert opinion get rid of one or the other.both will be happy in the long run..now seeing you dont want to listen im not wasting my time on this issue anymore..good luck..your going to need it.
> 
> Rick


I do, too. I don't agree that I wrote garbage, but to answer your question... I decided not to answer with my reasons, I don't know that you would understand them no matter how well I word my response. I have considered putting crabs in something else so if you think I have not listened, that's ok, but you're right about not wasting your time on this issue, maybe you'd rather do something else instead of write to people. Can you please try to check your spelling before you write again? Thanks. Oh, thanks for offering me good luck.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> obivisly you dont
> 
> Rick


 Sure, whatever...


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

This has gone far enough. I can tell everyone right now, I am a very blunt and outspoken person. I don't beat around the bush and I don't sugar coat advice. If you think I was rude so be it. But no one has seen me rude yet. I locked this thread because it was going down hill fast. Not because of the so called group that got togther to do it. 

If you think she listens, try this example. I have asked her not to pm me anymore. She sent 3 pms after. Then since I decided not to answer those pm's she sent me an email. IF it keeps up she will find out how rude I can be. So will brian and hanky.

I am gonna unlock this thread for reasons of being blamed for crap that didn't happen. If it goes down the tube so be it.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll start here, tried contacting person who responded poorly, was unable to even by PM, I need a chance to explain and update my findings from today. I also hope to post my new findings in the right topic area, will try and see if people respond any better or appreciate what I did today. Thank you.


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Thats a load of crap and you know it.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

crazycrab28 said:


> I'll start here, tried contacting person who responded poorly, was unable to even by PM, I need a chance to explain and update my findings from today. I also hope to post my new findings in the right topic area, will try and see if people respond any better or appreciate what I did today. Thank you.


crazycrab..im telling you dont push your luck with her. she has tried to help you several times and your wouldnt listen. remember the wasting of time i mentioned earlier in this thread, thats what im talking about, so she asked you not to pm her anymore..that is her right as well as every human being out there, and you continued to pm her, and then you sent an email.

As far as shutting this thread down,she is a mod, its her job to monitor things like this, its not the first thread she locked and wont be the last..so everyone that thinks she had other interests in had your dead wrong.

Rick


----------



## FishFin (Jun 26, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> I'll start here, tried contacting person who responded poorly, was unable to even by PM, I need a chance to explain and update my findings from today. I also hope to post my new findings in the right topic area, will try and see if people respond any better or appreciate what I did today. Thank you.


You know, you would create any stupid road block and/or excuse to prevent from taking someone else s experience. How do I know this? You are completly ignoring Susankat's advice, she's a smart lady and she helped within 3-4 seconds of a problem with my cichlids. I'm a cichlid person, i've owned all types and kept them for atleast 6 years, and I've done stupid moves and i've corrected them with peoples advice. 

You're being very thick-skulled by not taking anybodies advice. 

LOSE THE DARN CRABS OR GET RID OF YOUR TANK!!! GET THE MESSAGE? *old dude

You're tank is overstocked, crabs should *NEVER* be kept with any other types of fish. From the bull**** I read from your responses you're obviously not a *fish hobbyist*.. How do I know you ask? Hmm let me refrain what I just said .. You're not listening to anyone.

Thanks.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

susankat said:


> Thats a load of crap and you know it.


Whether you are a moderator or not, are you allowed to violate the "courteous and polite" rules? If so, you should maybe think of another hobby, I tried to contact you and my screens were not showing I did at first, that is why I wrote more than once. I made an effort to write to you but you are taking this wrong and unable to communicate with me so, you are writing to others instead of asking me?


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

No I am not taking this wrong, I gave you advice several times, you chose to ignore it and do what you did cleaning the tank the way you did. That is why I asked you not to pm me anymore, I still have all the pms.

And being a moderator, doesn't make me have to do things when someone ignores what I tell them. I am not only the moderator here, I basically run this site with the permission of the owner. 

I also have the right to whom I want to talk to or not. And I have chose not to answer your pms or email. I was not rude in my first post I was blunt and did not sugar coat it. I never have and never will. I have been keeping fish for more than 30 years so I do know what I am talking about, oh and by the way I do keep crabs also. Males will kill other males when there isn't enough territory, I keep one pair to a 20 long tank, as he killed the other pair.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

she is allowed to do whatever the hell she wants.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

FishFin said:


> You know, you would create any stupid road block and/or excuse to prevent from taking someone else s experience. How do I know this? You are completly ignoring Susankat's advice, she's a smart lady and she helped within 3-4 seconds of a problem with my cichlids. I'm a cichlid person, i've owned all types and kept them for atleast 6 years, and I've done stupid moves and i've corrected them with peoples advice.
> 
> You're being very thick-skulled by not taking anybodies advice.
> 
> ...


Your opinion was not appreciated or asked for, so you had a nice time with susankat's advice, I have my own opinion about her advice and now I find your ridiculous, poor, unjust attitude and post disgusting. You are not kind enough or smart enough to write to me and ask me to explain my posts. No, I checked, I don't have a thick skull, did get more advice today from 3 people at pet store. You know nothing about my history with tanks, my present tank, reason I have not gotten 2nd tank for crabs yet, I did find out what NOT to add to water and its not up to you to criticize when a forum is meant to help. You are NOT HELPING! Please do not write back with your unkind attitude, maybe you should find a new hobby, too, just make sure its one that does not involve you dealing with people! or pets! Oh, and I have listened, your reply makes me not want to listen to you especially.


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I opened this thread anyone is allowed to post in it, not just the ones you want to hear from so fishfin has every right.


----------



## FishFin (Jun 26, 2012)

crazycrab28 said:


> Your opinion was not appreciated or asked for, so you had a nice time with susankat's advice, I have my own opinion about her advice and now I find your ridiculous, poor, unjust attitude and post disgusting. You are not kind enough or smart enough to write to me and ask me to explain my posts. No, I checked, I don't have a thick skull, did get more advice today from 3 people at pet store. You know nothing about my history with tanks, my present tank, reason I have not gotten 2nd tank for crabs yet, I did find out what NOT to add to water and its not up to you to criticize when a forum is meant to help. You are NOT HELPING! Please do not write back with your unkind attitude, maybe you should find a new hobby, too, just make sure its one that does not involve you dealing with people! or pets! Oh, and I have listened, your reply makes me not want to listen to you especially.


Hmm .. I sense some "butthurt" in you. Sorry to say but I own 3 very healthy Golden Labs, and I used to own a 80G Custom that was 6 years old, with beautiful cichlids. Saying that I need to find another hobby is basically telling me to **** off, in which case I won't. Pardon my french (Moderators), but you're being a *****. You're post are absolutely ridiculous, you must find torchering fish eh? Seems like it. I've had over 7 years with fish, started with a 2.5G all the way up to a 80 Custom. You're playing with fire by not listening to people. Susan isn't being "rude" and not listening to her amazing advice is being a like being a dumb ****, nobody likes you. You act like torchering fish is fun, you're probably one of those sick pukes. Honestly you should return all the fish to your LFS, and just smash your tank.

- Eric's Wife.


----------



## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

The problem with you making something like this into a "comedy" is that there will be some new fish owner that doesn't know anything about fishkeeping read this and think what you are doing is ok. I know you care for your pets but an animal hoarder cares for their overwhelming number of animals as well. You can easily care for something but not truely take care of it. Your crabs and fish are not suited to live together. They require totally different setups to be healthy and live the life they deserve. Choosing the fish OR the crabs to rehome would be the best thing for you to do. The crabs would be the best choice for rehoming since the requirements for their care are more than you can handle at the moment. No one likes to give up their animals but eventually you have to think of the ANIMAL's wellbeing and what is best for it. In reality you should have never bought the crabs without learning about them in the beginning but hindsight is 20/20 and we often see what we should have done AFTER something has already been done. Another thing I see is your dedication to the pet store employees' answers to your questions. The problem with this is: 80%+ do not really know what they are selling or what it needs to survive; 95% are there to sell you something and not figure out whether you are able to handle it. That is the good thing about forums like this one...you can actually find the RIGHT information instead of a bunch of misguided info. You can listen to however many people you would like to and try to get an average answer-the problem with that is this: Say you asked your question to 5 different people; Out of those 5 people-3 told you what the pet store told them; and 2 answered the same question but their answer was TOTALLY different from the first 3. Now that average would be whatever the 3 people told you because there are more of them BUT the answer would be wrong because the pet store told those people wrong. The other 2 people had actually kept the animal in question and knew all about that particualar creature. At that point, you would be missing out on some very valuable information. There are more very experience people on this particualar forum than any other forum I have been on. I tell you, if you don't like the way people are on this forum than FishForums.com - Powered by vBulletin is better suited for you.


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Crazy - we all screw up or do something we shouldn't do - it's how we correct our mistakes that makes us "good" or "bad".

Do you seriously expect people here who genuinely care for fish to tell you that your slightly less unsafe and torturous system that you've got going there is better than the concentration camp that you were running before? - Well... it's better - done.

It's a disgusting environment to keep what you've got though and while something in me admires your temerity in posting here - the idiocy of what you're doing combined with the sorry state your fish are in actually makes me consider what appropriate punishment for you should be.

You've said time and time again that people aren't seeing your side of the story. Well - we've read it, considered it and considered it dangerous - unanimously. It's not a value judgement or opinion but an objective reasoned fact. If you fail to understand the difference that isn't my problem.

cb


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




----------



## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

sorry to see your horse died. lol

Has EVERYONE forgotten the rule about being polite here? I understand its frustrating when people dont take your advice, but its no reason to get rude about things. All we can do is offer advice and move on. Also some of the language used here is uncalled for IMO, remember there are younger kids on these forums too.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> Crazy - we all screw up or do something we shouldn't do - it's how we correct our mistakes that makes us "good" or "bad".
> 
> Do you seriously expect people here who genuinely care for fish to tell you that your slightly less unsafe and torturous system that you've got going there is better than the concentration camp that you were running before? - Well... it's better - done.
> 
> ...


Just read your unkind post, just checked my tank, still no disaster. If I had not cleaned my tank for months and instead kept dumping in bottles of clearwater, I could see people getting upset. But I now have salt thing straightened out, have explained I will get a 2nd tank, have spoken to people who keep crabs and fish together, and at least I did care enough to ask, everyone gives different answers like the stores did, and the internet did, and then I get criticized for my efforts. Now, do you think that your response and a few others warrants being so over emotional over this that you all need valium? I'm thinkin yeah! You are wrong about "punishment" here, my tank is still ok, I check it often. Maybe you should seek professional help like another person here that wrote to me in capital letters. It would be nice of someone to say to me "Gee, you should pat yourself on the back for trying SO hard to take care of your tank." or "We noticed you've made improvements with your tank, which is great, and we know you will get your 2nd tank soon and you know about brackish water, which will make your crabs happy, good luck and let us know how your tanks are doing" or better still "We did not mean to keep scolding you when you still learning about crabs and brackish water, all the info you got made things more confusing, its understandable why you didn't know at first about brackish water or crabs especially since store told you they would be fine in FW tank." 

These are examples of what would have been better said, some people have actually made things worse by being upset, how many times do I have to explain why I got crabs? or why store did not explain better? or how confusing the salt thing was? Or why I can't get a 2nd tank right now? or why I removed goldfish because they were getting bigger and I wanted colorful tropical fish instead? Hope people read my post and reconsider their responses, this is a forum not a court. Does this help you at all?


----------



## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

hanky said:


> Has EVERYONE forgotten the rule about being polite here? I understand its frustrating when people dont take your advice, but its no reason to get rude about things. All we can do is offer advice and move on.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I don't agree that you should throw EVERYONE together with not being polite. I believe my response was polite but to the point. Encouraging incorrect husbandry habits is almost as bad as doing them yourself so I believe the OP SHOULD have to hear some stuff she might not want to. I do agree some of the language could have been different but sometimes some people need a "slap" to get the point.
> ...


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

chipmunk1210 said:


> hanky said:
> 
> 
> > And "beating the dead horse"--was pointless Brian. Even though for some reason you feel the need to defend this particular issue AND decide to escalate an earlier issue. Guess some people are like that. *#3
> ...


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The language does need to tone down a bit. But other than that there was no rudeness involved till I was accused of being rude, if being blunt and to the point is rude so be it. 
She may think she has the critters best interest at heart but she doesn't. Anyone that critics her tank in a way she don't like she tells them so. Thats not being rude? 

I don't wear soft gloves when I give advice, never have and never will. If you don't like the way I post, DONT READ THEM! Even though it says to be polite, it doesn't say a person can't be blunt in responses.

I have been accused of being rude, got news for you fellows, you haven't seen me rude yet, but these threads of crazycrabs is getting me there real quick.

I had closed this thread before because I knew it would come to this, and basically got accused of doing it because of other reasons, (you know who you are) in another thread.

Her posts may not be like Bobs, but they do give the wrong impressions of how to take care of a tank, just like his. And to keep doing it that way is no different than bobs advice is it. She doesn't want advice, she wants to brag. If the only advice she wants to listen to is her petstore, so be it. Go to them and don't come here.


----------



## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

First off - 
All I have to say is WOW did this get out of hand quick. 

I do not appreciate the way that BOTH sides of this conversation are handling this. If you don't have something nice to say, I believe you shouldn't say it, or take it to PM. I don't think that the behavior on this thread reflects the way that we as respectable individuals should act.

OP- While I do see that you are trying to give yourself a laugh by comparing yourself with a character in a comedy show, I think that there was a better way that you can go about cleaning your tank. Taking all of the animals out of the tank to clean it, and having them fall to the floor is terribly stressful for them. It might not seem like a long fall for you, but it is for them. I agree that keeping crabs with fish is a bad idea, and it is advisable to just take the crabs back, to save both yourself and the animals grief until you can get your tank situation sorted out. With the tank being low to the ground, I have a tank close to the ground as well, and a normal gravel vac works fine, though it works a lot slower than if the tank is higher up. I don't think a 100% water change is ever advisable because it could be harmful to your fish. If your having water quality issues, then I think that you need to trim down your stock and feed less until you can get a good regime going on. The cloudy water, etc could be a bacterial bloom, or water pollutants, I'm not sure. I hope that you are able to work all of this out and have happy animals in the end.

Everyone else-
While I do agree that the OP sounds like she's not listening, giving advise is all that we can do, it is up to her on what she wants to do with it. Though I know that it feels like your being insulted when the OP doesn't seem to listen(believe me, I understand), there is no point in getting out panties/boxers in a crimp about it. It is always better to just take a deep breath, and walk away from the subject. I do not agree with the language that was used. While you can compare her to Bob, she is not going to the newbie section and telling people to do it her way, because it's the best way. That (in my opinion) is the biggest issue we had with him. 

I know Susan, and I know that she can be harsh sometimes. I do see your side of the argument when it comes to your rights and having someone stop talking to you when you have made it clear that you are done with them. So I am not saying you were terribly out of line like some of the others.

Also, if you have an issue with what I have said, please feel free to PM me and we can discuss it like adults.


----------



## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> chipmunk1210 said:
> 
> 
> > Beating the Dead Horse meant just that. This subject has run its course. This whole conversation is pointless. And where in the hell in this Thread do you see me defending anyone? Leaave me out of it! Take it anyway you like to. You guys seem to run where you want with this crap anyways.
> ...


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

This will be my last post so here goes, hanky unless your name is Brian also that wasn't meant for you, it was meant to reefing madness.

No need to apologize to me. It wasn't harsh, you just had the wrong impression. Because of that impression I opened the thread back up. I knew it was going to come to this when I closed it.

No one will have to worry about me being rude in my blunt posts anymore as I have now decided to no longer post and just moderate posts. And I am going to moderate it to where some people might get upset with me. Thats how everyone wants it thats how its going to be.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

if anyone was offended by my language im sorry but i will say what i want to say to get my point across. i did not throw the f bomb around or call anyone names.Im sorry but this OP is wrong in this circumstance, and i gives new people here bad ideas, most everyone here with experience know this is wrong with an exception of a few, and i think they nkow its wrong, but just like to cause trouble, well if thats the way its going to be i would just as soon not come here anymore. this is twice now in a little over a month that we have had to go through this crap, and i for one am tired of it..sorry caught me in a bad mood.

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> if anyone was offended by my language im sorry but i will say what i want to say to get my point across. i did not throw the f bomb around or call anyone names.Im sorry but this OP is wrong in this circumstance, and i gives new people here bad ideas, most everyone here with experience know this is wrong with an exception of a few, and i think they nkow its wrong, but just like to cause trouble, well if thats the way its going to be i would just as soon not come here anymore. this is twice now in a little over a month that we have had to go through this crap, and i for one am tired of it..sorry caught me in a bad mood.
> 
> Rick


I'm actually glad you wrote, so you were in a bad mood, I would talk with you. Maybe you'll be ok by the time you read this: I am fairly new here and don't understand why everyone is so emotional, especially since I have explained my tank and reasons for asking questions....its because the store left me in doubt. So, I'm on the forum, get different answers everywhere and people wonder why I ask, its ok, I am learning anyway no matter what. My tank is ok and crabs are happy, they have driftwood and new food. Hope to hear from you, gotta go in kitchen and make dinner, waiting for stray cat to come. Later!


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

crazycrab28 said:


> I'm actually glad you wrote, so you were in a bad mood, I would talk with you. Maybe you'll be ok by the time you read this: I am fairly new here and don't understand why everyone is so emotional, especially since I have explained my tank and reasons for asking questions....its because the store left me in doubt. So, I'm on the forum, get different answers everywhere and people wonder why I ask, its ok, I am learning anyway no matter what. My tank is ok and crabs are happy, they have driftwood and new food. Hope to hear from you, gotta go in kitchen and make dinner, waiting for stray cat to come. Later!


you are not understanding at all..i am tired of this whole thread. once again brackish animals and freshwater animals do not belong together..plain and simple,not going to explain it any futher..there is no point in it.like i said yesterday, you are set in your ways.you are going to do this, no matter what, and i can see why your tank is fine right now.but i have a suspicion in a couple of weeks it wont be, but time will tell. if i had my way there would be a sticky posted to telling everyone that if someone posted a thread that endangered the lives of their fish that thread would be deleted.thats if i had my way.

Rick


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> you are not understanding at all..i am tired of this whole thread. once again brackish animals and freshwater animals do not belong together..plain and simple,not going to explain it any futher..there is no point in it.like i said yesterday, you are set in your ways.you are going to do this, no matter what, and i can see why your tank is fine right now.but i have a suspicion in a couple of weeks it wont be, but time will tell. if i had my way there would be a sticky posted to telling everyone that if someone posted a thread that endangered the lives of their fish that thread would be deleted.thats if i had my way.
> 
> Rick


I fixed the brackish water, am going to get 2nd tank. Well, if you want to, its up to you, but I am not harming my tank! I fixed everything, salt issue is overwith, added driftwood, can start 2nd tank (I have a spare heater) and have rest of supplies. Tank looks so good I can't stop looking at it! The rock cave is very nice and driftwood made it all much nicer. I am researching red claw crab traits in between everything else I am doing right now. I still devote time to my tank as wel las other creatures here, including people. I am going to teach 2 classes then if things get straightened out here, and I move to California, I'll look into a talk show about caring for pets and people with passion.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

whitetiger61 said:


> you are not understanding at all..i am tired of this whole thread. once again brackish animals and freshwater animals do not belong together..plain and simple,not going to explain it any futher..there is no point in it.like i said yesterday, you are set in your ways.you are going to do this, no matter what, and i can see why your tank is fine right now.but i have a suspicion in a couple of weeks it wont be, but time will tell. if i had my way there would be a sticky posted to telling everyone that if someone posted a thread that endangered the lives of their fish that thread would be deleted.thats if i had my way.
> 
> Rick


I know you are tired, I am going to get 2nd tank, have fixed all problems, no need for me to ask about certain topics anymore. No, I'm not as set as you think, I will get a second tank, I've gotten enough opinions that I don't need more about what I asked for. I am now going to research red claw crabs before setting up second tank, already have spare heater. But, if you're tired, go lay down and think it over, I mean how you feel about the thread. I'll start over, too. Does this sound any better? I understand more than you gave me credit for, other, too. Am I getting my point across any better now? Still admiring my tank, for me its fabulous to look at while I type.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Crazy, please stop with the double posting. if you have more to add please use the Edit button, located to the right side of your message.


----------



## crazycrab28 (Sep 7, 2012)

majerah1 said:


> Crazy, please stop with the double posting. if you have more to add please use the Edit button, located to the right side of your message.


I figured this out after double posting,...why do I get the same message from other people twice? I don't know why it is this way, I did not set up this forum, I know about edit button now, please calm down, I don't need to keep answering every single thing you are pointing out and I know about the edit button, and I still have trouble getting around this forum because of the way it was designed. Plus, the screens take forever to change and its not my computer doing it. Please give me a break for a while, I have to put the dishes away, feed the dogs, and get dinner ready. Have you written to others you were going to warn? Hope you had time to write to them also, thanks.



majerah1 said:


> Crazy, please stop with the double posting. if you have more to add please use the Edit button, located to the right side of your message.


I figured this out after double posting,...why do I get the same message from other people twice? I don't know why it is this way, I did not set up this forum, I know about edit button now, please calm down, I don't need to keep answering every single thing you are pointing out and I know about the edit button, and I still have trouble getting around this forum because of the way it was designed. Plus, the screens take forever to change and its not my computer doing it. Please give me a break for a while, I have to put the dishes away, feed the dogs, and get dinner ready. Have you written to others you were going to warn? Hope you had time to write to them also, thanks.

The screens change so slow that I wondered if anyone left because of it?


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

I love that your response to that was not only a double post, but a duplicate one. 

crazycrab, is this your first forum? 

I ask this because I've joined forums for all sorts of topics (pets, music, movies, etc) and they're all set up pretty much the same. This one is no more difficult to use or navigate than any of the others I've posted on.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

crazycrab28 said:


> I figured this out after double posting,...why do I get the same message from other people twice? I don't know why it is this way, I did not set up this forum, I know about edit button now, please calm down, I don't need to keep answering every single thing you are pointing out and I know about the edit button, and I still have trouble getting around this forum because of the way it was designed. Plus, the screens take forever to change and its not my computer doing it. Please give me a break for a while, I have to put the dishes away, feed the dogs, and get dinner ready. Have you written to others you were going to warn? Hope you had time to write to them also, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crazy, you need to calm down I was not jumping you, just letting you know its not allowed.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Miss Vicky said:


> I love that your response to that was not only a double post, but a duplicate one.
> 
> crazycrab, is this your first forum?
> 
> I ask this because I've joined forums for all sorts of topics (pets, music, movies, etc) and they're all set up pretty much the same. This one is no more difficult to use or navigate than any of the others I've posted on.


Hello Miss Vicky.

I also found it hard to work out how to post on here, I spent quite some while just reading.I don't think their all similar because iv'e posted on UK Yahoo Boards and at first found this a completely different layout.in fact iv'e a feeling i 'm not answering as i should even now because I click on 'quote' to answer when i don;t see 'reply' that I sometimes can click on.


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't post on UK specific boards (I'm American), but I have posted on a variety of other forums and each one is similar enough that navigating them is very much the same. 

If you just take a moment to look at what is on your screen, you'll see what options are available.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Miss Vicky said:


> I love that your response to that was not only a double post, but a duplicate one.
> 
> crazycrab, is this your first forum?
> 
> I ask this because I've joined forums for all sorts of topics (pets, music, movies, etc) and they're all set up pretty much the same. This one is no more difficult to use or navigate than any of the others I've posted on.


Now i couldn't click on the post reply maybe because you had circled it, im not sure but if i answer a post straight away, yes i do see the post reply,but, if there's been a few more posts before i try to answer i don't see any post reply


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

AT the bottom of the thread, very bottom, ya type in what ya want and hit *Post Quick Reply*. No need to hit Post Reply or Quote.


----------



## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

Miss Vicky said:


> I don't post on UK specific boards (I'm American), but I have posted on a variety of other forums and each one is similar enough that navigating them is very much the same.
> 
> If you just take a moment to look at what is on your screen, you'll see what options are available.


very well documented. all the forums ive benn on here have been the same or very close to earch others format. This forum is setup a bit different as in design but runs the same as let say APC.

Rick


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks reefing madness


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I just want to see if this follows a post that i would reply to

Miss vicky, thanks for your reply
I'm just testing here lol


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Follows a post I would reply to? Ya mean like hoping you are subscribed to the thread and it notifies you when theres a new post?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

No Reefing, i get thosenotifications already
Ive just answered you so its now showing your post above mine,that in turn is showing exactly who i'm posting back to and what its about but the only way ive found that i can do this is by clicking on quote below 'the post' and person im replying to.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Well, just read this whole thread. Susan - I didn't think you were rude at all. It is very easy to take things out of context written in a non-personal manner, like a forum. I am well-known for having my email taken out of context at work. If the words had come out of your mouth to the person on the phone or face-to-face your true meaning would have been properly conveyed. The OP just got something they didn't want to hear and it is always hard to get a message across to someone that would rather listen to people in stores, when most of us already know they don't have the experience to back up their opinions and their "expertise" stops at the door.

I wouldn't worry about what anyone says....carry on.


----------



## Miss Vicky (Jul 6, 2012)

goldie said:


> Now i couldn't click on the post reply maybe because you had circled it, im not sure but if i answer a post straight away, yes i do see the post reply,but, if there's been a few more posts before i try to answer i don't see any post reply


You couldn't click on the circled "Post Reply" button because it wasn't actually a button. That was a screen capture I took to show you where the reply button is located. 

The "Post Reply" button will only appear before the very first post on a page and after the last post of a page. The "Quote" button appears after each post so that you can quote another person's post and reply specifically to that post.


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

Beautiful weather isn't it?!


----------

