# Cloudy Water



## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

Hello, I have read alot about cloudy water on different places on the internet and I have learned alot about causes and solutions, but I just wanted to post here with some of my own pictures so that people could tell me more exactly what my problem is. here are 3 pictures


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nobody can tell you that without any other info....tank size, water test results, how long has it been setup, etc, etc...


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

silly me. how did i forget that. ok here it is:

tank size: 20 gallons

fish pop: 2x 3 year old goldfish <--fairly healthy

last setup... about 3 months ago (at least thats the last time i had all the water out and thoroughly cleaned it)

ph - 5.5u <-- the kit says 6.5 is acceptable

alkalinity- 80 ppm (mg/L) <-- "moderate", the kit says 180 is ideal

hardness - 75ppm (mg/L) <-- "soft"

plant <-- a basic fern thing... i have no idea what its called, but its healthy and growing

lighting <-- the light is on a timer, 12 hours of light, 12 of dark

heat < -- 74-76F

Filter <-- large Biobag whisper. filters changed pretty regularly


anything else?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

No result for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? My guess is you have a bacteria bloom going on. I also would never remove all the water from my tank and clean everything, unless there was some form of bactria that just wiped out all of my fish. I would suspect that every time you do this your tank cycles all over again. I'd also watch your filter maintenance and make sure that you're staggering replacement of the media inside and never do it all at once. Not to mention and I really can't see them, the tank you have is a little small for goldfish. Your filter is probably underated for the bio-load you have. May be okay for the tank, just not for the fish you have chosen to keep in it.


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## shocktrp (May 24, 2009)

How much gravel did you put in the 20 gallon tank - a 25lb bag?


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Did you do a recent water change?
How old is your charcoal? You may want to add a bag of charcoal in the filter for a little while.


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

I do not remember the exact weight, but i'd say there is about 1.5" of gravel on the bottom.

and about charcoal: is that the same as carbon?

and a question about carbon: ever since i've started keeping fish, i've always had activated carbon in my filter (except when i apply medicine). however, i was reading a book that i got from the library, and it said that I should only use carbon when I am trying to get something particularly nasty out of the water, or after the medicine routine has finished. what should i do with the carbon?


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

Some people use activated charcoal aka carbon all the time. Others use it only to remove medications/odors. If it is used all the time it must be changed per manufacturers instructions to remain effective.

There is evidence to suggest that using carbon past the expiration date may release toxins back into your water.

The cloudiness of your water looks like a bacteria bloom to me. This is common in a newly set up tank while cycling and also in tanks going through a mini cycle. 

Rinse your filter inserts well when putting new ones in. What ever is used for biological filtration on your filter that I have never heard of should not be changed regularly. Simply swish it around in tank water removed during a water change to preserve bacteria and prevent mini-cycles.

If the cloudiness is a bacteria bloom it should go away on it's own in 3-5 days.


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

ok that sounds helpful. 

another thing, people have mentioned that I should never entirely empty my tank and clean everything. but after a while, i find that is needed. there would be no way to effectivly clean it with water still in it... how do i get around this?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have never emptied a tank to clean it, but you shouldn't do all of your cleaning at once either. Do weekly water changes, scrub your glass, do a gravel vacuum as needed or every other week - only one half of the tank at a time. Try scrubbing off ornaments while they are in the tank or just leave them alone.

What exactly is so bad you feel you need to do this? Just trying to understand.


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## shocktrp (May 24, 2009)

1upnate said:


> I do not remember the exact weight, but i'd say there is about 1.5" of gravel on the bottom.
> 
> and about charcoal: is that the same as carbon?
> 
> and a question about carbon: ever since i've started keeping fish, i've always had activated carbon in my filter (except when i apply medicine). however, i was reading a book that i got from the library, and it said that I should only use carbon when I am trying to get something particularly nasty out of the water, or after the medicine routine has finished. what should i do with the carbon?


It appears you have too much gravel - get rid of most of it so that there is only a thin layer on the bottom - otherwise the fish can't get down to the bottom to clean it. 

After you have most of it out vacuum the bottom & do a water change. It should clear up in a few days.


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

its just sometimes my algae problems get out of hand. is there something that has escaped my mind of a way to keep algae down? i down overfeed, i change water regularly, but it just seems to grow back


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

shocktrp said:


> It appears you have too much gravel - get rid of most of it so that there is only a thin layer on the bottom - otherwise the fish can't get down to the bottom to clean it.
> 
> After you have most of it out vacuum the bottom & do a water change. It should clear up in a few days.


Not good advice. I have 3-5 inches of gravel/substrate in all 5 of my tanks. The amount of gravel in his tank is not causing the cloudy water. The tank going through a mini-cycle is - from over cleaning and his fish are big waste producers. If you try to overclean the tank, which is what you're talking about, you would end up causing the same issue because you would be removing large populations of beneficial bacteria causing another mini-cycle and cloudiness of the water. The majority of the bacteria that converts ammonia-nitrate is found in your gravel/substrate.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

1upnate said:


> its just sometimes my algae problems get out of hand. is there something that has escaped my mind of a way to keep algae down? i down overfeed, i change water regularly, but it just seems to grow back


Cut your lighting time down. Is the tank next to a window where it gets a lot of natural light?


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

its next to a window, but its not getting that much sunlight. i have the light on a timer and it gets 10-12 hours of light a day


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

JRman is 100% right on this....
I also have to say gravel is not an issue, I could go on about this but don't worry about the substrate (and don't over clean it either)

I would still put in carbon/charcoal for a little bit. Then it's your choice to continue it's use.
Also currious as to why you have to break it all down to clean so often???


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

HI!Ill chime in here with my thoughts.First off,to me it looks bacterial,like Ben and others mentioned.The gravel is fine for your tank.I have three inches up front and five in the back of one of my tanks.In order to get rid of algae,you will need to cut down on the lighting period or add more(lots)plants.Still may need to drop the lighting down to 8 to ten hours.

Now about the fish.Two goldish is two two many for a twent gallon.Its recommended that fantails,or other small fancy goldfish have at least thirty gallons for the first one and then ten for every other one added,and double the amount of filtration for a normal tank.If these are comon goldfish,they are more suited to a pond.Even if they have lived for three years in the twenty,they are not growing the way they need.The outside may stop growing,but the inside organs and such,will not.Therefore they become compressed and can suffer a very long painful death.

For now,with the fish you have I suggest you do a 30% waterchange twice a week,to help combat ammonia.Dont do any more that that,or you will mess with the cycle.To get the gunk off the bottom you use a gravel vac.You can do this once a week with one of the 30% changes.The other one,just put the hose from the siphon in the water and pull out 30% then add fresh.

The java fern,dont bury the horizontal stem.That way itll get the light and water movement it needs.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Kill lights for a few days and stop adding food.

add more plants and they resume with less lighting and less feeding.

my .02


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## danilykins (Dec 22, 2010)

here is my bit of advice...

cloudy water= bacterial bloom, this will just disappear after a couple of days. 
Algae- get some amano shrimp for the tank. They will eat the algae up. 

Something people didn't mention is whatever you do, do not buy stuff to clear cloudy water or to clear the algae. This will make things worse. 

Try only doing about 10-20% water changes every couple of days. When you clean your ornaments and whatnot, clean it with tank water not clean fresh water. Make sure you add declorinater to your water when you do water changes. The tap water not treated will kill all the good bacteria in the tank and the process will start all over again, and you will NEVER get rid of the cloudy water.


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Since you have Goldfish, and Goldfish Like to eat and chew on almost every plant.... Here is a link to a great page that tells you what plants to get, and not get.
Plants & Goldfish
And you could invest in snails or dwarf Pleco for algae control, as well as protecting from sunlight.


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## 1upnate (May 15, 2011)

what would be the best way to go about getting these shrimp that eat the algae. (i think it is an algae bloom because i smelled it today, and it smells slightly like a pond. also, its turning greenish


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Do a google for.... Nerite Snails
This would be your best bet to control the algae problem. (not the current cloudy problem, but the reason you clean tank all the time) 
Don't go OCD on keeping it clean, it's a problem that creates more problems. Just do normal mantaining.
I think the recommended amount of nerite's for that size tank would be at least 10.
These will be alot easier to keep, and Goldfish won't eat them. Cause the shrimp that do this kinda job, are 1. expensive, and 2. The goldfish will pick them off as a nice treat.


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