# I am officially stumped and frustrated.



## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

I am on the verge of draining this tank and starting completely over. I need some advice and suggestions. To start, I made the mistake of putting 60 pounds of gravel and 60 pounds of play sand in the tank. This was a massive mistake, and I ended up starting over two weeks later. I got all of the sand out and the gravel clean as a whistle. After three days the water cleared up completely, and I added about 100 pounds of natural slate limestone in the tank. This was another huge mistake. The water clouded and stayed that way for 5 weeks. I finally removed all of the limestone and added about 80 pounds of natural coral that I boiled clean. The tank finally cycled about a week ago, but hasn't cleared as I hoped. I am running an aqueon 55/75 rated at 100 gph. I have also added additional floss pads outside of the aqueon filters to increase filtration. It has cleared slightly since removing the limestone, but it is still hazy, like smokey room hazy. I am running a bubble wand and two bubble stones. I have all fake plants in the tank. I jave cleaned the inside of the glass. The lights are only on 2 to 3 hours per day in a room where the blinds stay drawn in case it was an algae thing. I did another 20 gallon water change and the water looked considerably better till I turned the filter back on and the darn thing clouded right back over, same as always. Since I had extra floss pad in the filter, I made a boo boo and changed both filter pads at once yesterday, figured maybe I need to get some debris out of the tank and it might get better. I have also used two different brands of clarifiers with no luck. The water has a yellowish haze...there isn't a speck of algae growing on anything. I feed tetracichlid pellets 6 days a week, and frozen food every other day. Most of the time it is all eaten in 3 to 4 minutes. My ammonia is zero, nitrites zero, nitrates are below 10 since todays water change. PH 8.5. What am I missing??? I am pulling my hair out. I am trying to avoid Purigen because of the cost. Thanks!


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh, and I have been doing 20 gallon water changes three days a week and have added aquarium salt about once a week.


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## nate2005 (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow. Sounds stressful. Hang in there. I've never used those substrates so I don't think I will be much help. I wanted to give you a courtesy bump though. What size is your tank? I wondering if it's a filtering issue.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

90 gallon, housing 1 3" pleco, 2 blood parrots, 1 small cichlid and 5 silver dollars. All of the other fish are 2" or smaller.


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## nate2005 (Apr 24, 2013)

could be your filter is under performing. most people shoot for 7-10 times tank size in gph. you are at about half that. try rinsing your filter cartridges in old tank water when you do your pwc. it also could be a bacteria bloom. I'm leaning towards your filter isn't doing a well enough job though. hopefully others chime in but thats my opinion.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Shut off everything that moves besides your filter. Every two days squeeze the filter pads out in a pail of aquarium water then reinstall, don't throw filter media away until it is falling apart. On a side question why are you adding coral or limestone your ph is high enough for tanganyikan cichlids and way higher then all the south americans you named off?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I would say you need a bigger filter or add another one. 100gph isn't very big for a 90 gal.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

I have the coral just for cover/decoration. I asked this site several weeks ago if anyone thought it would drive my already high ph even higher. Nobody had any concrete answers, but a couple of folks said probably not, and ket us know. So far in the last two weeks my ph hasnt risen even the slightest bit. All of the fish in my aquarium came from the same lfs that keeps their tanks in the 8.0 to 8.6 range. All of the fish are growing, have great color and eat well. Hopefully it will stay that way. My water comes out of the tap at 8.3 or so.

So, it seems better filtration is the answer. Fair enough.


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## jamnigh (Apr 24, 2013)

i would have to venture to say filtration as well. Doubling up at the very least should make a huge difference for ya!


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## nate2005 (Apr 24, 2013)

Please keep us updated with what you do and if it works. You never know when someone else may have the same issue and benefit from your situation. Hang in there.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

nate2005 said:


> Please keep us updated with what you do and if it works. You never know when someone else may have the same issue and benefit from your situation. Hang in there.


I'm going to start with lots of water changes then add a second filter system. I'll let you know.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

As an update, I added another hob filter getting the tank up to 200 gph. It did clear a little but not completely. I did a 50 percent water change this weekend and it looked much better. Yesterday I got a good bacterial bloom and it is a mess. However, I'm not panicking, I'll let the bloom take its course and see what I end up with.


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## Kehy (Apr 19, 2011)

Since I usually do dirted tanks, I'm used to the water being really cloudy. I try to do at least a 25% water change every other day for at least week, then work on cycling, with weekly water changes. With so many water changes at the beginning it's hard to keep the ammonia levels up for a fishless cycle.


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## GreenyFunkyMonkey (Nov 27, 2012)

I would just dump the tank, remove all soil and sand and start over. The limestone is a big no-no. Limestone and freshwater aquariums just do not mix except for in the most extreme water circumstances. I would shell out the money and buy sediment from your local aquarium store. Upgrading your filter system was a big plus, but will not cure the fact that you have play sand and limestone in your aquarium. People are always looking for shortcuts, and it often gets them in trouble. I will also add that when you you add fish they have a super high chance of falling ill and dying from parasites.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Bacterial blooms(cloudy water) are not something everyone gets while cycling.Since you're done cycling I really have to believe that it is a symptom of somethng going on in your tank that the bacteria can't handle.Usaully this is overfeeding.Don't feed your fish for at least 3 days.Your fish will be fine.The cloudieness you see is not the bacteria you need for good biological filtering but more a symptom of "unbalance".Water changes will not make it go away.From past experience with other posters in same situation 9/10 cleared up in 1 week if they held food back.
I'm with dalfed also that the coral isn't helping anything since your pH is high already.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/nitrogen-cycle-43369.html In this link provide by dalfed it explains the nitrogen cycle and mentions that low pH has negative effects on the bacteria.I believe you are "promoting" the opposite with extremely high pH.Your bacteria are present but aren't functioning properly(clear as the cloud in front of your eyes).Add driftwood if possible (and pleasing to you) and see if it helps "stabilise" your water pH.NO FEEDING FOR 3 DAYS AT LEAST.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

GreenyFunkyMonkey said:


> I would just dump the tank, remove all soil and sand and start over. The limestone is a big no-no. Limestone and freshwater aquariums just do not mix except for in the most extreme water circumstances. I would shell out the money and buy sediment from your local aquarium store. Upgrading your filter system was a big plus, but will not cure the fact that you have play sand and limestone in your aquarium. People are always looking for shortcuts, and it often gets them in trouble. I will also add that when you you add fish they have a super high chance of falling ill and dying from parasites.


Agreed with the Limestone and the play sand, both a nightmare, but the sand is long gone for 7 weeks, and the Limestone has been out for three weeks now.


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> Bacterial blooms(cloudy water) are not something everyone gets while cycling.Since you're done cycling I really have to believe that it is a symptom of somethng going on in your tank that the bacteria can't handle.Usaully this is overfeeding.Don't feed your fish for at least 3 days.Your fish will be fine.The cloudieness you see is not the bacteria you need for good biological filtering but more a symptom of "unbalance".Water changes will not make it go away.From past experience with other posters in same situation 9/10 cleared up in 1 week if they held food back.
> I'm with dalfed also that the coral isn't helping anything since your pH is high already.
> http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/nitrogen-cycle-43369.html In this link provide by dalfed it explains the nitrogen cycle and mentions that low pH has negative effects on the bacteria.I believe you are "promoting" the opposite with extremely high pH.Your bacteria are present but aren't functioning properly(clear as the cloud in front of your eyes).Add driftwood if possible (and pleasing to you) and see if it helps "stabilise" your water pH.NO FEEDING FOR 3 DAYS AT LEAST.


No feeding for three days, check. I'll try anything at this point.


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## DigitalBuddha (May 25, 2013)

Does anyone else think that a 25% water change every 3 days is too much? 

In my experience letting the tank sit for a while is the best way, letting the tank run its course. Now that you have 200 gph filtration you should sit back and let the tank do its thing. The more you mess with putting new stuff in and taking old stuff out the more you are messing with the balance that is trying to be established. I could be wrong but I've dealt with cloudy tanks for a while and have overcome it, I haven't had a cloudy tank in quite a while. I do partial water changes about once or twice a month(different fish loads could need more, but mine is pretty low). 

Also I don't clean my filter media nearly as much as you guys are saying to. I clean it probably once for every 4 or 5 partial water changes. 

A supplement that I can suggest is 'Acurelf' it has worked wonders and everytime I get my tank all cloudy during rearranging I always use it to bring my tank back to crystal clear within hours. If I am wrong please correct me but I think that doing nothing could be your best option if that makes any sense haha. good luck!


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

200gph of filtration on a 90 with those fish sounds too low.

My 75 has about 800gph.. I'd think you'd want at least 500gph at a bare minimum. Have you considered a canister filter like the FX5 instead of all these HOBs?

What are your current water parameters (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Digital Buddha;You can never change too much water.Very little bacteria are in the water column,so as long as filter is good then you could,should change as much water as often as you can(inkmaker).
Zeke; I am with you aas minimum turnover should be 4-5 times tank volume per hour.No problem with 10+ if fish can handle the flow.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Also are you adding any pH buffers (pH up/down/etc )? those should be avoided as they contain phosphates which will cause cloudy water. But my guess is the biggest culprit would be inadequate filtration / excess waste in the tank.

-Zeke


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

No, I don't use any ph up or down products, I leave it alone. The ph holds pretty steady at 8.5 ish. I will check my parameters tonight. I did check on the ammonia last night and it was zero. I was pretty confident it was a bacteria bloom as the "haze" i've been experiencing turned into "clouds" that visibly move from the filtration. I've seen bacteria blossoms enough times, I'm pretty confident this is what I'm seeing. I'm just stumped as to why I am seeing a blossom now. Until it clears, I'm not going to change anything in the tank, except holding off feeding the tank for 3 days.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Not feeding for a few days should help. How are your fish behaving? 

-Zeke



ifinditunderground said:


> No, I don't use any ph up or down products, I leave it alone. The ph holds pretty steady at 8.5 ish. I will check my parameters tonight. I did check on the ammonia last night and it was zero. I was pretty confident it was a bacteria bloom as the "haze" i've been experiencing turned into "clouds" that visibly move from the filtration. I've seen bacteria blossoms enough times, I'm pretty confident this is what I'm seeing. I'm just stumped as to why I am seeing a blossom now. Until it clears, I'm not going to change anything in the tank, except holding off feeding the tank for 3 days.


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## DigitalBuddha (May 25, 2013)

Coralbandit, perhaps my understanding of water changes is off. From what I understand regular water changes are used for the health of the fish not for clearing cloudy water. Isn't the purpose of water changes to lower the amount of waste in the water, effectively tricking the fishes body into thinking it is in a larger body of water? Could you point me in the direction of a write up explaining all the uses of regular water changes?


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

Active, eating well, growing like weeds. I haven't seen any unusual behavior from them. They seem to be quite happy with the water quality, it's me that has an issue with it. I can admit that they perked up even more after adding the second filter.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Digital Buddha;There is way more in water besides the nutrients we want out.Hormones and lacking trace elements would be just another example of things that can best be controlled by water changes.Waterchanges will not help ifinditunderground with his cloudiness,but in a well running system there are more than a few of us who feel you can never change to much water.It's like fresh air,never get enough,helps with resistance to illness and generally promotes better health(both physical and mental).I'm sure there is much more than just hormones and nutrients in water we want gone,just don't think we even have half a clue what we should be looking for OR how to look for or recognise it.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

ifinditunderground;You nailed it on the cloudiness.It really shouldn't have any effect on fish at all but is a visuall nightmare for the keeper!


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## ifinditunderground (Apr 6, 2013)

I figured it out!!! I had a friend come over and take a good look at the aquarium. It went from cloudy to green cloudy over the course of a week. He recommended a water test at a reputable lfs, the water checked out on parameters but the rep noted algae in the sample. Did a water change and lights off for 5 days. No change. My friend came back over a week later and we tossed ideas back and forth till we were both stumped. Then, my friend peeked at my hood light and noticed it had a reptile bulb in it. Presumably, the previous owner put it in there because he had a reef tank going. I changed the bulb out to a full spectrum and continued to wait it out. It never got better, only greener, like I cant see my fish anymore greener. Finally, I broke down and added two teaspoons of API AlgaeFix. 18 hours later the tank is absolutely crystal clear. I AM LOVING IT! 3 months of frustration but my aquarium is beautiful and I can finally just sit and watch it and enjoy it. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Glad to hear you can enjoy your tank again.Hope it stays all good for you in the future.
Re reading I only listed my own resons for changing water(which I mentioned wouldn't really help with cloudiness) but failed to give a real read to DigitalBuddah, so here's one;
Aquarium Water Changes


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