# Advice for kids 5 gallon Mini Bow's



## ah300rum (Sep 18, 2013)

I have always had an aquarium of some sort until about 10 yrs ago started having kids so I got rid of my aquariums. I was never serious, never tested water or anything like that, but I was always successful and rarely lost fish.

My 2 kids have been begging for aquariums, I wanted one larger 20 gallon or so, but soon realized that would just be a huge fight on decorations, fish selection and taking turns feeding etc.

I only had so much space on the area I had so I ended up with 2 Aqueon Mini Bow 5 gallon kits, that I found on clearance.

I setup the tanks with no fish, treated the water and ran the filters for two days. Then added a single male betta to each tank. I let the tank go about a week and a half, then the kids couldn't stand it and were driving me crazy. So we added a dwarf frog and 3 ghost shrimp to each tank. 

This proved to be too early and the water clouded up in a day or two. For 2 weeks with daily 10% water changes it was not clearing up. I was testing the water had no nitrate readings and high nitrite (3.5-5) readings alkalinity and ph seemed fine, didn't have an ammonia test kit. 

After much reading on the nitrogen cycle, I decided to just try the Tetra Safe start bacteria. I added 1/2 the dose recommended on the bottle after a water change the next day it was a huge improvement and 2 days later the water was crystal clear. After 4 days I was reading 20-30 on nitrAte and about 2.5-3.0 on nitrite....it has been a few months with weekly water changes of 15-20% just under 1 gallon per tank and the readings seem great good nitrate low nitrite.......I will mention I have EXTREMELY hard water so I have been using filtered drinking water with water conditioner for changes to keep my hardness down. I dont have easy access to RO water... so after the tanks stabilized we added a few more creatures. For a couple months everything seemed stable then an issue popped up in the next paragraph.

Now after the long boring history....both tanks are identical with the identical setup and fish...one betta, one guppy, one dwarf frog, 3 ghost shrimp and one small snail. My sons tank has lost 1 betta all the shrimp more than once and 2 guppies, in the last few weeks......the water tests the same as the other tank, same water changes, food, etc. etc. The other tank has not lost a single thing!

No sign of any diseases....the fish look great in the evening and found floating the next day, no sings of decline in activity or anything.....they just always die overnight? water temps are pretty stable at 74-76.

They are up high enough the kids cant get into them without help so I don't think it being sabotaged ....so I am just puzzled why his tank has lost a so many fish and my daughters has lost none?

I have even swapped the majority of water from one tank to the other, swapped filters, swapped lids, even did a full water change from an established tank of a friend etc. etc. etc. I just cant figure it out. The one tank is just cursed


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## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

Ok, my advice is do a 50% water change on the tank and let it run for two weeks prior to adding anything. I'd change out the filter media as well just to make sure. Use filter media with carbon so if something got in that should not have it will get rid of it. I think you may have a bit too much fish for the tank size and would recommend doing 10% water changes weekly. 

You kind of hit the nail on the head about tank size. The smaller the more unstable. Also, just thought of it, is there any chance a shrimp is dead somewhere in the tank or filter? That could be an issue as it sounds like the bottom water zone is the culprit.


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## ah300rum (Sep 18, 2013)

I looked thru the tank very close, so I don't think I have anything decomposing in there. 

The kit filter has carbon in it....I was hesitant to put in a "new" one and get rid of any bacteria I built up, so I switched the filter cartridge from the "healthy" tank to this one.....the "healthy" tank is doing fine with the other cartridge and actually has way to many fish now since I moved some from the "cursed" tank into it.

I moved the rest of the creatures to the other tank, its been just over a week and that tank is surprisingly stable being overstocked, I am doing 10% water change almost twice a week and adding the Tetra Safe start and conditioner....water is testing good on nitrate and low on nitrite in this healthy but overstocked tank.

As for the cursed tank, I removed and rewashed the decorations, and cleaned the gravel with a siphon. Wiped the tank sides clean with a soft cloth. I had started to cycle the tank with just a betta, then a friend at work with an established 90 gallon tank brought over 5 gallons of water and a couple bio balls from his filter this morning. I am going to add all established water and toss in the bio balls, with a new filter cartridge and try to cycle the tank with 2 shrimp and a betta.

Hopefully with a clean tank and established water I can "break the curse"


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## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

Good luck and let me know how it goes.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

You are very overstocked for such a small aquarium. I am surprised the other tank isnt experiencing the same issues.

The tank is only large enough for a few of those, none together. 

The frogs, they have poor eyesight and usually need to be target fed because the fish will out compete them every time

The bettas usually do best alone in such a small tank, because they are territorial. Also water is too cold for the bettas, they should be at the very least 82. 

Guppies shuldnt be housed with bettas, because sooner or later the betta will see this as competition.

Ghost shrimp are tasty snacks for bettas. 

Most of what you have together is incompatible and if it is working, will not for very much longer. I suggest you find what each kid likes the best and work a tank around that.

Adding plants may help somewhat, but to be honest I would do daily waterchanges of 70 percent. Bettas are not good cycling candidates. They are easily prone to fin rot, columnaris, velvet and many other diseases due to stress. Believe it or not thier life span should be six years. Many are lucky to live six months.


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## Avraptorhal (Jan 24, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.

The nitrites higher than zero concerns me. The process that happens is the ammonia rises first, then the bacteria that likes ammonia comes along and turns it to nitrites which is almost as poisonous as ammonia, then the bacteria that likes nitrites comes along and turns it to nitrates. Your readings should be ammonia zero, nitrites zero and nitrates <40, preferably <20, but less than 40 is acceptable. The process gets started by the introduction of some ammonia content - excess food decomposing or fish waste or anything else decomposing. If at all possible you should get an ammonia testing kit.

Just a thought, who was feeding the fish? Maybe one tank was getting too much food.


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## ah300rum (Sep 18, 2013)

Let me try to clarify....I have 2 identicle tanks....yes I know one is very overstocked, it is that way since I moved most the fish out of the second tank into it to keep them alive......I do not want to keep them here....but that tank has not lost a single fish or creature since the tank was started.

The second or "cursed" tank is my problem tank....I am beginning to think there must be a chemical problem or something water tests cannot detect

The "overstocked" tank is doing great....been doing 30% water changes weekly and have not lost a single fish, or any creature at all. All the fish have their fins in perfect shape no sign of fighting or nipping...... Keep in mind this tank is overstocked since I moved stuff from the "cursed" tank into it to keep them alive. Yes the nitrites & nitrates get up higher than I would like but none of the fish show signs of stress and appear happy and healthy.....it has been this way for almost 2 months now, go figure the "bad" tank has not had a single fatality

The "properly or understocked" tank is still "cursed"...........I started all over...over a month ago, cleaned the tank, gravel and all decorations, filled the tank with water from a friends established tank, added 6 ghost shrimp and a big snail and let is cycle for a few weeks. I started seeing ammonia and nitrIte near zero and nitrAte balance at safe levels (approx 20) I added a dwarf frog. Then after 2 additional week of stable readings.....nitrIte and ammonia still "0" and nitrAtes in safe levels (approx 20)......I was testing with my strip kit and had the local pet store test the water for me as well to verify the readings....everything was looking OK and thought I was home free

I left to go out of town Sunday and my wife called today Monday 3pm and said she found the frog and a couple shrimp dead, they looked fine Sunday morning. The frog ate a few of his food bites....the shrimp were floating aroung eating their pellets....no obvious sign of problems.


she did a couple test strips and here are the readings

NitrAte 0-20 "safe"
NitrIte 0 "safe"
GH 150-300 "very hard"....welcome to Utah the water is like clear concrete
chlorine 0 "safe"
KH 120-180 "ideal"
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0 "safe"

She took a sample in to the pet store, their results
Ammonia 0.2
nitrIte 0
nitrAte 15
PH 7.0
KH 140
GH 235

They said they could not see anything other than ammonia, and thought that was due to the dead frog & shrimp releasing it. But was not high enough to worry, and to test it tomorrow to see if it goes down.

I have come to the conclusion the tank is truly cursed....... I need a witch doctor to make a house call.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Test strips are highly inaccurate. I suggest before you add anything else, take the filter media from the cursed tank and place it in the filter of the other since its good. Let it stay there for three weeks. Then add a few fish and the filter back to the other tank. See if they do better. 

Really though, you should start to move some out of the other tank before it crashes hard. Just because they are good now doesnt mean there wont be an issue.


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## ah300rum (Sep 18, 2013)

I want to get that overstocked tank cleared out, but the other tank has been a death sentence to every creature that has gone in it.

I have swapped the filters between the two tanks in the past and the cursed tank still killed fish and the other tank did fine with the filter swap. I tried a 70% water change on the cursed refilling with 1/2 fresh and 1/2 good tank water into the cursed tank to try an establish it, thinking it wasnt cycling. I have tried a 100% water change to the cursed tank using water from a well established tank of a friend and even added some bio balls & gravel from his canister to try and help. I swapped the morimo balls between tanks thinking maybe they were contributing some how.....I swapped about 1/2 the gravel between the tanks....but the good tank still does fine & the cursed tank keeps on killing.

I have been using strips, but the pet store uses a regular test kit, the results have been pretty close, they cant pick up anyting that stands out as a problem either. Thats why I keep thinking whatever the problem is, is not something a test kit will pick up. I am starting to thinking I should remove the decorations, just in case something from one of them is leaching into the water? I added a heater to each tank....water has been fluctuating a little more.....floating between 76-80. Gets up to 80 during the day with the lights on, then cools overnight to about 76....havnt seen it go under 76 has got up to 82 once or twice right before the lights turned off for the night.

When I get back home, I plan to do a complete water change again with 1/2 water from my other tank and 1/2 fresh RO water, swap filter media again.......then add the guppies from the other tank to the surviving shrimp and snail to try to relieve the overstocked tank. That will leave a Betta, dwarf frog and 3 or 4 shrimp in the good tank....and put the 2 small guppies, a snail and a 2 shrimp in the cursed tank. That should take some stress off the first tank.

Time will tell if its a death sentence for the guppies


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

There's nothing really in the old tank water itself. Any bacteria that is colonizing is in the filter media, maybe a bit on decorations or gravel. So there's no reason to move water from tank to tank. Clean dechlorinated water at the proper temperature is best.


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