# To carbon..? Or not to carbon??



## Mr. Wood (Aug 3, 2013)

I have read many a post on the topic of AC and its importance (or lack of) in aquarium filters.. 
From what I have gathered many suggest that it's not really essential and only really helps the filters manufacturer in guaranteeing a monthly sale (due to a monthly filter change).. 
Is this true?? Or is it a aquarist "conspiracy theory"? 

Once more the only pro I have really gathered was that it does assist in keeping the water sparkly clean.. 
Is there a substitute that can produce the same affect w/o the monthly trips to the fish store??


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Many here (including myself) use purigen(made by seachem).It makes crystal clear water,removes nitrates and is rechargable(some of mine is 2 years old).Water changes do everything and more than carbon and even the "lab grade " carbon will not last one month before you throw it out.
Many use carbon to remove meds after treatment but again waterchanges do the same thing.
I use the 100 gl pre packed purigen, as to recharge takes soaking in 50/50 bleach and water so I wouldn't trut any other filter bag.Like I said some of mine are 2 years old!
Just say no to carbon ,check into purigen and change water.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

My water stays clear from my plants and water changes. It really is mainly used to remove meds and clear the water but as Tom said, use purigen or water changes to get the same effect.


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## Mr. Wood (Aug 3, 2013)

I keep fours gallons of filtered water in a cupboard that I treat with both Gordon's Novaqua Plus Water Conditioner and a sprinkle of freshwater biozyme.. The gallons stay on standbye for my weekly water changes..(I use two per week and keep the other two cause I'm paranoid and rather be safe than sorry).. 
I hate any thing other than crystal clear water... 
Now in regards to the purigen, can I purchase a bio bag and fill it up or should I stay strict to its measurement guidelines.. I ask only because my tank size would dictate to use a small amount and I would regret having enough "coverage" in my filter..? 
My water change is due tomorrow so I would definitely be On my way to check out this product.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I use the 100 gl bag in my fluval edge(5.5 gallon).I just don't have to regenerate it nearly as often as the three bags in my 180gl.It only removes /clarifies what needs to be.It can't be overdosed.The pre packed bags are the smallest amount they sell so I roll with them for everything.I use them in my salt(reefs) and my fresh.They are the better safe than sorry to me!They change color from pure white to brown when exhausted(full),and then you regenerate(we can discuss how to sucessfully do this when time coems{simple}).
I'll add many studies on carbon(not by carbon sellers) say that left to long or when exhausted(full) it can/will release all the impurities it captured.
Seachem. Purigen


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## Mr. Wood (Aug 3, 2013)

Kool beans.... Gentlemen (and ladies), as always, thanks once again for allowing me to pick your brains...


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## ArtyG (Jun 29, 2011)

I have never been a big charcoal fan. When I was at TFH back in the 60's we had some huge tanks as well as smaller tens and the then popular fifteen gallon and changed most of the water every day(can you say unpaid intern?) so we had no filters to speak of. I change about 80% once per week with heavy aeration and moderate filtration. All is well most of the time.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

I have used whisper filters for years and they have bags with charcoal in them. I've never had any problems, not very expensive and my tanks are clean.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I believe carbons effect of water is more the stuff you don't see, so personally believe it doesn't do much to keep your water nice and clear. Not considering that I have never used it and have crystal clear tanks. If you are not replacing at a minimum of every 30 days it is not doing anything beyond that. Some would argue that it is only effective for about 2wks. Others believe that carbon removes some of the trace elements needed by plants and because of that many plant keepers don't use it. 

So if you like the way your tank looks and you use carbon, and you keep it replaced often, use it. 

Needed? Never.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Also some folks have said it can not only not help, but harm some fish. I stopped using carbon years ago and have never looked back. I do see it might have a use during water changes to filter the incoming water with one pass through, but not in my filters where the water is percolating through over and over.

I do not know the science of this, but found that I did better in my planted fish tanks with no carbon.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I never use carbon in my tanks for long periods of time. Only if I'm wanting to take meds out, and also if I am afraid that some kind of chemical might get into the water. I use strictly sponges and ceramic rings, and I haven't ever had an issue with water clarity... If you are worried about the water being crystal clear, and have a canister filter, you can buy some polishing pads. I have heard great things about them, but they can clog quickly because the pads are a denser type of floss, which allows it to get the smaller particles.

Some people argue that carbon can cause HITH because of the trace elements of chemicals it produces. I'm not sure if I believe it, but I wouldn't know because HITH hasn't ever truly been acquitted to only one cause. It's still not certain how it happens.

I think carbon is just a way for the companies to make money every month. I also don't like keeping it in my filters for too long because the floss over the carbon begins to fall apart depending on how high the GPH is in your filter.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Well I've never had my fish "harmed" by the filters and my plants do well. I didn't even know there was an option to not use charcoal. Should I just use plain bags in my filters? I don't even know if I can buy them.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

snowghost45 said:


> Well I've never had my fish "harmed" by the filters and my plants do well. I didn't even know there was an option to not use charcoal. Should I just use plain bags in my filters? I don't even know if I can buy them.


You can buy ceramic media or 'cut to fit' filter foam pads that are great for bio media


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

i would pass on the ceramic rings or bio balls since I have switched both of those out and replaced with sponge media...my nitrates are so much better.....I agree with the bandit and many others---I have 4 bags of purigen in my marineland c-560 and I actually took carbon out of my sons 55gal and replaced with extra sponge and purigen....Make sure you buy the purigen bag as well---i have tried other bags and the purigen goes right thru them. Good Luck!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Amazon.com: Seachem The Bag Filter Media Bag: Pet Supplies

Amazon.com: Seachem Purigen 250ml: Pet Supplies


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

snowghost45 said:


> Well I've never had my fish "harmed" by the filters and my plants do well.


 It was years ago that I read this and it was related to hole-in-the-head desease and how carbon filtration could be related. I do not remember if there was anythign definitave ever discovered. I was not using carbon at the time anyhow, but found the article interesting.




snowghost45 said:


> I didn't even know there was an option to not use charcoal. Should I just use plain bags in my filters? I don't even know if I can buy them.


I do not know what filter you are using, but most can use just floss or sponge and some sort of bio media like the ceramic chunks others have mentioned.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

@snowghost....How often do you change your filter media?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Jim Albright said:


> i would pass on the ceramic rings or bio balls since I have switched both of those out and replaced with sponge media...my nitrates are so much better.....I agree with the bandit and many others---I have 4 bags of purigen in my marineland c-560 and I actually took carbon out of my sons 55gal and replaced with extra sponge and purigen....Make sure you buy the purigen bag as well---i have tried other bags and the purigen goes right thru them. Good Luck!


HA! And good for you Jim!I don't offer advice that has failed me!Sorry for ALL OF YOU who choose to throw good money out the window while speeding down the road! Ditch all your bio,get good sponges(treat them like bio{only rinse them in tank water when necessary}) use purigen and water changes as your "better safe than sorry" method.
800+ gallons,fish breeding I still can't even raise the fry of(discus and GBR),400-500 swordtails,and yea I change a little water,but have no "real" bio media or carbon EVER AGAIN!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have never used any chemical filtration.


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## ArtyG (Jun 29, 2011)

Change water, change water, change water. That's how you eliminate as much disolved crapola as you can . I have long believed filters of all stripes are really elaborate aerator systems and most, if not all , could be replaced by a .15 cent airstone and a $5 vibrator pump. And regular weekly water changes. Save the charcoal for your BBQ!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

SeanMcC said:


> It was years ago that I read this and it was related to hole-in-the-head desease and how carbon filtration could be related. I do not remember if there was anythign definitave ever discovered. I was not using carbon at the time anyhow, but found the article interesting..


There are many links to hole in the head and lateral line disease that point directly at carbon.Many are found in salt water links (as so many feel they are so much more delicate),but I think saltwater fish are as as simple as fresh,BUT possibly are more sensative to things we add to the water.It is also linked in many oscar threads as owners of oscars who aren't prepared for waterchanging(like it's your job{AND IT IS},will try anything to help with water quality.
Good find Sean!


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Jim Albright said:


> @snowghost....How often do you change your filter media?


I used to change the filter media with every water change, once a week. The bags would be really nasty. I now have a 33 gallon with 3 angels, I know everyone tells me they are over crowded but they seem to be doing fine. It's a planted tank. I noticed the bags aren't as dirty so I changed them after two weeks. I never knew that charcoal was bad for fish, I started keeping fish in the 80's and it's all I've ever used. I can buy the whisper bags and not put in the charcoal. The charcoal comes separate, it fills the bottom of the bag about 1/4 inch, bag is 7 inches.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Buying the whisper bags may work (I haven't tried them) but I know most of the bags I have tried didn't keep the Seachem Purigen in it very well, because it's such fine material. You will be happy to make the switch because you wont have to change every other week...once a month or more just rejuvenate the bag as directed on the package and it's as good as new....your small tank you may be good every 2 months...you will know when to rejuvenate because you can see the bag brownish tint...


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

ArtyG said:


> Change water, change water, change water. That's how you eliminate as much disolved crapola as you can . I have long believed filters of all stripes are really elaborate aerator systems and most, if not all , could be replaced by a .15 cent airstone and a $5 vibrator pump. And regular weekly water changes. Save the charcoal for your BBQ!


Are you serious? I can save a lot of money using and air stone.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

ArtyG is definately serious.I use sponge filters in my breeder fry tanks up to 75gl. and the only help they need is water changes.The sponge is both mechanical and bio(if treated properly),and after that all any tank NEEDS is to have water changed regulary.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

I posted two responses and they didn't show up. My filters come with the carbon separate. The bags are 7 inches and the carbon fills about 1/4 of the bottom of the bag. Should I just use the bags without the carbon? I have had the filters for a long time and see no reason to toss them out.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

No you're catching on!Don't even bother with the carbon(what they give you is very small in volume and probly not great quality either).Carbon does nothing waterchanges can't do even better.I may catch some slack, but even if your water test all good changing water (properly) never hurts and actually helps fish grow,removes hormones(no chemical filter for them yet) and stregnthens fishes immunity system.
This way all you need to do is rinse your filter material in tank water and re-use it till it falls apart(that should save some money!).


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## ArtyG (Jun 29, 2011)

snowghost45 said:


> Are you serious? I can save a lot of money using and air stone.


Yes, but I cannot emphasize enough the need to be hard nosed about water changes and just sensible aquarium management . By this I mean don't overcrowd or overfeed . I like to skip a day of feeding per week. My weekly change is at least 80% . All the water is changed by syphoning out the back door of my house and refilled with temperature premixed tap water from a hose , no buckets, with the usual Sodium thiosulfate water treatment added as the hose fills the tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

ArtyG said:


> Yes, but I cannot emphasize enough the need to be hard nosed about water changes and just sensible aquarium management . By this I mean don't overcrowd or overfeed . I like to skip a day of feeding per week for . My weekly change is at least 80% . All the water is changed by syphoning out the back door of my house and refilled with temperature premixed tap water with the usual Sodium thiosulfate water treatment added as the hose fills the tank.


For those of you scratching your head sodium thiosulfate is dechlorinator.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

snowghost45 said:


> I never knew that charcoal was bad for fish, I started keeping fish in the 80's and it's all I've ever used.


Hope you don't think I was saying charcoal was bad for fish, it is just not necessary most of the time and there are some concerns about some desease in some types of fish related to the charcoal. It may be that the charcoal removes somethign needed by the fish. It sis not terribly common or it would be more well known. Just know you can do very well without charcoal in most situations unless you are trying to remove somethingspecific from your water, like contaminates or medication.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> For those of you scratching your head sodium thiosulfate is dechlorinator.


Yep! Sodium thiosulfate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

What is this sponge everyone is talking about. Can I cut it down to fit my filter? The bags do seem to catch a lot of icky stuff. Whisper filter bags are not cheap and they are I don't how to describe them, like cotton webbing? Of course the company makes them cheaper now so they don't make them as sturdy as they used to. Sigh, the American way these days...raise the price and scrimp on the product quality.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Any sponge from LFS.If they don't have large ones for saltwater sumps then the aqua clear sponges are just as good(probly a little more $ though).Sponge before your filter bag will help keep the bag clean and be a prefilter in mechanical terms.You can use scissors to cut the sponge however you need.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> Any sponge from LFS.If they don't have large ones for saltwater sumps then the aqua clear sponges are just as good(probly a little more $ though).Sponge before your filter bag will help keep the bag clean and be a prefilter in mechanical terms.You can use scissors to cut the sponge however you need.


I have a freshwater tank. What kind of sponge am I looking for. Thanks!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Sponge is a sponge.They are no different wheher they are for "salt water" or fresh.They may just carry large block sponges for sumps(aprox 4x2x10).Like I said aquaclear (HOB)sponges work (they're all the same)sponge is a sponge.


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## ArtyG (Jun 29, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> For those of you scratching your head sodium thiosulfate is dechlorinator.


Sorry, I use Sodium thiosulphate direct from crystals. You can buy it as such from kensfish.com and save a fortune. At least if you have huge tanks.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Ok call me dense but I've never used sponges before, I've always had FW tanks. If I go to LFS, what am I looking for? A sponge that looks like something you clean the dishes with? (I can hear the SW guys groaning now)LOL, send me a link with a pic please.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

AquaClear 20 Foam Filter Inserts - Filter Media - Fish - PetSmart
Amazon.com: aquarium foam


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

ArtyG said:


> Sorry, I use Sodium thiosulphate direct from crystals. You can buy it as such from kensfish.com and save a fortune. At least if you have huge tanks.


WOW!WHAT A DEAL!


Sodium Thiosulfate


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Does it also work on chloramine?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Found two very informational articles on sodium thisulfate and chloramine,so here you go.The second article actually sites some interesting government studies on chloramine and bacteria in fish.
Removing Chloramines
Dealing with chlorine and chloramine | The Skeptical Aquarist


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