# Ammonia present, no nitrites or nitrates



## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Hello all,

Sorry if this was answered in another post. So many threads and posts to soft through...anyways, you can see my tank setup in my tank info, and I have a persistent problem:

My ammonia is consistently sitting at 0.25 as tested by API liquid kit, with 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. At one point I had more fish than I do now. Unfortunately they died. The ones listed in my tank are living happily and healthy. I check my water chems every day. I feed very small amounts once a day(less than a pea size amt). If my ammonia creeps up to 0.50 I do a water change. My local water tests 0 for ammonia, and I use prime to treat added water. During water changes (which i do frequently) i also vaccuum the gravel/sand. I can't figure out for the life of me why I can't get my ammonia down. 

Before adding fish I ran the tank for several weeks to establish the cycle, and added fish when all my numbers dropped to zero. The problem is I added to many at once, a rookie mistake. I added 6 neon tetras at once. I won't get I to the story of who died, and when, but it tells you that I increased the load on the bio filter way too fast. 

So what do I do now? The current fish are fine...it's the ammonia I can't get under control.

Thanks for the help,
Brad


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you didn't add an ammonia source to tank for the weeks you "cycled",then the tank/filter didn't really cycled(you just circulated water.) This sounds like the case due to the lack of nitrates.
Your doing the right thing with waterchanges and monitoring your parameters.You may need to keep doing this for upto 8 weeks before the tank/filter will truly be cycled.Your ammonia source now is the fish,so be patient and don't let ammonia or nitrites go over 1 ppm.You'll get there but it will take some time.
Don't mess with your filter(cartridges) if you don't need to.If necessary rinse the cartridge in old tank water when you make your water changes.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I really cant add any other advice to what Tom has posted. Just be patient. 

When cycled do you plan to add any more tetras to the school?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you. Yes I plan on adding more to both schools when the tank finally is cycled. I want to get another 4 of the large tetras and more if the neons as well, keeping it within the limits of the 1 inch per gallon rule. Honestly I will probably stay a bit below that rule just so nobody feels crowded. You're correct, as a newbie when I was "cycling" my tank I added fish flake only during the last couple weeks which I know now isnt enough time to fully cycle. Live and learn I guess. Do even with no nitrites and nitrates but with small amounts of ammonia, you think this thing will fully cycle and settle down that soon? I tried adding the bottled bacteria, which I have also found out is hit or miss...more often than not, its a miss and results in me dosing my tank with dead bacteria and consequently more ammonia. I don't know anyone who has a tank that I could get some seasoned filter media from so I guess I'm on my own just doing like you said and continuing to do as I am and monitoring the levels.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Keep in mind that rule is outdated and IMO as well as many others, over rated and incorrect. You should look to the types of fish and their activity level and waste producing level when stocking a tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You will cycle in time.It is unavoidable.It may take several weeks which is why testing often and changing water(to lower ammonia and nitrates )is necessary.
Many keepers use AQadvisor as a helpful stocking and maintenance tool.Go to the site input tank,filter info and selct fish and numbers of each and they will give you good insight.
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey guys, so do you think I should continue with DAILY wc or what? I forgot to change the water yesterday and the ammonia actually didnt budge. Didnt go lower than 0.25 but didn't go higher either. My nitrites are still bottomed out at 0, and my nitrates are detectable but are below the lowest range on the API liquid test kit. Makes me think maybe the tank is trying to cycle but maybe I'm hindering it with daily WCs.

On another note, the website you guys referred me to for stocking is awesome. I'm "patiently" waiting for the tank to cycle so I can stock more swimmers, but when that time comes how many can I add at once? I only plan to add more neon tetras and glofish tetras. The neons are relatively small but it seems like a crap shoot trying to figure out what I can stock without wreaking havoc on my water chems and by the time I figure it out, it's too late. Thanks for the help on both or either issue.

Also, I noticed lots of white transparent slime on the top rubberized portion of my tank heater. I cleaned it off thinking maybe that was contributing to my steady ammonia levels (similar to rotting dead fish) but then thought maybe I just scooped up some of my bacteria...as you can tell, I am a huge newb at this so any input is welcome.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Personally, I wouldn't do a water change unless my ammonia OR nitrites got to 1ppm or higher. Once it is cycled you'll want to add no more than 2-3 fish per week. You won't be able to add too many more with that tank size. The best quantity to stock to is about 85% max. Your tank size gives you very little room to play around with maxing and stressing your fish. You only end up with death and frustration.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey all, so I decided to add a bottle of the live nitrifying bacteria. I know there are a lot of strong feelings about these products, so lets keep this strictly numbers. I was at .25 ammonia with 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates before adding the bacteria. 24 hours afterwards I'm at .25 ammonia, and 5.0ppm nitrates. My nitrites are still at 0 and just to be sure, I did a dilution and retested, in case I was getting a false negative due to off the charts nitrites. Nope, it's truly at 0 nitrites. So I'm assuming this is good, that the nitrites must have peaked overnight and got converted to nitrates. But still, I have an ammonia reading. I've been taking my samples from just below mid-tank so I don't scoop up a bunch of crap from the surface. What gives? Theoretically, shouldn't I now have nothing but nitrates? I'm confused why the ammonia just won't go away. I've done 0 water changes in 3 days, but with my nitrates now climbing, I don't see another option but to do a wc tonight. I'm starting to wonder if my test kit is faulty. *conf*


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Wander if the card colors are off on the ammonia scale. Maybe you could take a LFS and see if they get the same results?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah, I'm going to do that tomorrow afternoon just to double check, even though they use the strips. In the meantime I performed a water change and vacuumed the gravel to reduce the nitrate and ammonia levels. Maybe with a little luck ill wake up to bottomed out values and it'll be a non-Xmas miracle. Lol


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

I will keep good thoughts for you and your tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Personally, I think you are doing too much. Daily water changes due to a .25 ammonia reading as you posted above, or changing water and vacuuming gravel because your nitrates are 5ppm is not helping you get your cycle over and established. You are stalling it. Don't do anything for week and see what you get, unless ammonia gets above 1ppm. Don't worry about nitrates until they get above 40-80ppm.

Bottom line is you have to have some value of ammonia present to get the cycle going at a decent speed. With the way you are going about this it will take a minimum of 3months, if not longer.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you for that. I'm do new to this that I hear people say to have no ammonia and it freaks me out to see anything showing up. I will let it go and see what happens.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

1^ with jrman!You got have ammonia to cycle.Keep it 1ppm or under.And nitrates are what you are looking for!Once done cycling possibly 40ppm or under is a good goal,but until then he(jrman) has given you the best numbers to roll with.
I'll add that you likely removed some of the bottled bacteria with your water change so ,just be patient.Every cycle is different ,but I have seen several from members here who never detected nitrItes!Who knows why but they are all cycled now regardless.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks guys, for all your input. I am bring impatient as well as nervous with the ammonia and all that, so I'll do as you suggest and let the tank run until ammonia hits 1ppm, then change water to get it back down when necessary. Maybe I'll throw another bottle of bacteria in there for sh*** and giggles.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Digging where you are at!I get nervous when I add expensive fish$$$$$.
You'd do better "throwing a bottle down" yourself(beer;alcohol) then another in your tank.Be patient have a drink ......RELAX!All tanks cycle irregardless of human input and whether "altered" or not they get there.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah. I haven't added any new fish, even though I only have 7 in there. I'm afraid it might be too much of a bioload increase. I figured I would wait until the cycle completes but that's where my impatience is coming from. My 20g is looking lonely with only a handful of fish in it. I'm so excited to get fully stocked and this cycle crap is killing me. It's been almost two months and I have been doing all the wrong things until now, it seems. Bummer.


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## Jenniferinfl (May 3, 2013)

I think most people aren't opposed to the beneficial bacteria products, just opposed to the misuse of them. For instance, if you just chucked a bottle of it in the tank, stocked it fully and then never tested your levels because hey, you used a whole bottle of Safestart. 

In that scenario you would have been better off saving the $10 or so you spent on beneficial bacteria and used it towards a test kit. 

My only problem with the use of them is if you rely on them fully and don't test levels and do water changes. I tested a few kinds recently and had NO success. In fact one of the bottles was so high in ammonia it would have killed any fish in the tank. The test tub I added that one to still hasn't cycled at all a month later, just ammonia, no nitrates or nitrites. 

But, if your testing along with it, most of them probably at least don't do any harm and some may even work if your lucky enough to get a good bottle of it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would say that your patience may hurt you. 7 fish is nearly stocked for a 20g, IMO - no matter the size or what aqadvisor says. My personal feeling is that the smaller the tank the more caution has to be given when trying to stock to a given limit. You should shoot for a 85% level or so to keep things safe and stress free for your fish. Especially important if this is all new to you. Do that and somewhere down the road, say 6 months or so, think about adding a few more if you have kept the originals all alive. Having a wall-to-wall stocked little tank with lots of problems with stress related diseases and death will push you away from the idea of keeping fish altogether. Just a thought.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Beginning to get frustrated. Been checking the water chems daily and keeping WCs to a minimum and still my ammonia sits at 0.50ppm with the nitrates hovering around 5ppm and nitrites still showing 0. It's like absolutely nothing is happening at all. If I could just get these freaking levels to get right my frustration would dissolve, but it looks like I have a long road ahead of me. On the bright side, all fish are happy and active. One of my glo tetras is bullying the other, but it doesn't seem to phase the one being bullied. For that reason I'd like to add two more of them to build a small school as they should be kept, but if my numbers won't finish up I can't do that. I'm at a loss for what to do.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The cycle with fish, meaning it did not start until the very first day you put fish in the tank, can take 10-12 weeks. Not sure why you test for everything? Not needed.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Are you suggesting that testing for ammonia only is sufficient? My guess would be that I would test for ammonia and wait for the levels to drop to 0? Would the nitrite spike kill me swimmers?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nitrate test is not needed for a while still. I would test for ammonia one day, nitrite the next. With your low levels of ammonia you may never see the nitrite spike.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Perfect, that's what I needed to hear. I haven't seen a change in nitrites at all. It looks like my ammonia may have dropped a smidge today (that a very scientific measurement, lol) but thank you for being patient with me through this process. I appreciate your input and that of everyone else. Thank you.


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## Avraptorhal (Jan 24, 2013)

Remember the saying "Nothing that happens fast in a tank is good".


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Okay, so it's been two months and my params are still not bottomed out. All fish are happy and healthy. I think maybe my use of Prime is throwing off my ammonia readings. Going to switch to a regular dechlor before my next water change. Changed 50% today and also removed the carbon from my original filter cartridges which I'm an still using after swishing them a bit in some tank water from the WC. Added some Stress-zyme for good measure, then added my last few fish, reflected in my signature: 2 Swartz Cory Cats and two rainbow sharks. Eventually I will get a bigger tank, but for now everyone is happy so I guess that's all that matters.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What are your readings?

The one thing I cannot believe is you just added 4 more fish to a cycling tank. I would not be surprised if your ammonia shoots way up. This is the worst thing you could have done. Now this tank is what we call "overstocked" and cycling.

Also, Prime doesn't affect ammonia readings. It locks the ammonia and renders it harmless to your fish, but it is still detectable normally with your test kit.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

My levels haven't changed from what's been posted since I joined. Ammonia sits at 0.50ppm, rarely fluctuating-maybe increasing to 1ppm after a week, week and a half. Nitrites never went above 0ppm, even with a dilution to test the kit accuracy, nitrates sit at about 5ppm or less. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the ammonia rise either, but I am prepared to handle that when it happens.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

My cycling woes should soon come to an end, as I added a seeded sponge filter today to my tank. I also upped the mechanical filtration by adding another penguin 150. Tank has plenty of filtration for its stock now, and this live sponge should get my bio filter established, instead of rolling the dice on the bottled bacteria.bjust thought I'd update. I'm not in the business of killing fishes, and didn't want folks to think that I wouldn't upgrade my filtration after adding more fish. Everyone is still doing awesome, so now ill just keep checking water params and this cycle should finish up. Bought the sponge from "Angels Plus" and have seen feedback from folks with awesome results.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Finally!! I believe I'm seeing success. Yesterday my ammonia was at 0.50ppm, nitrites at 0, nitrates at approx 5ppm. I dumped a little prime to hold the tank over until I could check the water and do what I assumed was going to be another water change to reduce ammonia levels. Today after coming home from work, my ammonia appears to have dropped to 0.25ppm and nitrates are somewhere between 10 and 15ppm. Definitely darker than 5ppm. Nitrites are still sitting at 0, which is odd, but maybe the spike already happened. Either that or is not going to happen for whatever reason (is that even possible to not see a nitrite change?). I'll check levels tomorrow afternoon before work and see what I'm at.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, it is possible to never see nitrites. Sometimes longer cycle periods you will see this happen.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

We have success! Thanks to everyone for their patience with me as a beginner in this hobby. I checked my water today after letting it run for a full 24 hours after my last post, without messing with it except to check ammonia levels. Tonight I ran all 3 tests and discovered my ammonia at nearly 0ppm, with just a slight touch of green to the coloration. My nitrites are at 0ppm, as they have been ever since I've been testing. My nitrates were very high, in the neighborhood of 30ppm+, not quite at 40. Tonight I did a 30% WC, and intend to recheck water levels in 24 hrs. It appears to me that the water chems are leveling out at this point, and all fish are happy. Even those said to not be compatible with each other. I think my main problem was my temp. I had this tank running at about 76 degrees since I set it up. 3 nights ago I bumped it to 80, and viola!: all of the sudden my cycle seems to kick into high gear. Thoughts on this? Anyways, thanks again for your patience. I realize I went against some of your suggestions and probably should've listened to you all, and for that I apologize.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glad it worked out. That small of a temp difference should have made no difference. Once things are in place for the cycle, which continuously occurs, it happens extremely quick. Ammonia is processed everyday in your tank and as long as you take care of the cycle you should almost never detect any.


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## RapidRay46 (Oct 7, 2013)

SeanMcC said:


> I will keep good thoughts for you and your tank.


You have really dry humor


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