# HELP I have an Ick outbreak!



## helimech (Jun 29, 2013)

I have a 55g tank with 7 amazon swords 1 Anubias 8 Anacharis 7 Nerite snails 10 Zebra Danios 10 Neon Tetras and a Pleco. 5 of my tetras, 4 danios and my Pleco have white spots! 
Everything I have read about ick treatments say that you can't use it with snails because they will die. The only treatment I've found that is safe with snails is raising the temp to 82 degrees and adding salt. But it says that salt will kill my plants! 
I don't have a quarantine tank nor the money to buy one.

So far I've raised the temp to 82 and added just a little salt(not the recommended amount) to hopefully save my fish snails and plants. I've been doing 50% water changes everyday for the past 3 days.

Please somebody give me some advice on what to do. I love my fish and plants and would hate to lose either!


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If your fish will tolerate(go slow and observe) raise temp to 86.1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons may not kill your plants(not certain) but you try it.Vaccumm the substrate every time you change water thoroughly as when the ich falls off your fish(it will) it lands in the substrate where it multiplies by the thousnads.
Here's info on the life cycle of ich read it so you know what you're up against
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
Good luck!


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

I just noticed white spots on four of my black neon tetras....They kind of look like the millions of micro bubbles floating around. Is it possible they are actually just bubbles? They don't seem to be coming off as the fish swim around... :-S


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ty said:


> I just noticed white spots on four of my black neon tetras....They kind of look like the millions of micro bubbles floating around. Is it possible they are actually just bubbles? They don't seem to be coming off as the fish swim around... :-S


It's possible if your filter drives bubbles into the water,but I would pay very close attention.The sooner you treat if necessary the better the results will be.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Should I wait until tomorrow to see if the spots have multiplied?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Yea I'd wait.If your waterlevel is low and filter is driving bubbles into water then just fill up a little higher(I'm pretty sure you don't let your water go to low though).Can you load up a picture of the black neons?


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Lol, nope, my water is as high as it can go to make sure there is no water line showing but it's not coming out the top. I have two air stones that I think are the cause of all the little bubbles.

I'm trying to take a picture that will actually show up...Which I've been trying for 30 minutes. I tried getting one in the net to see if the bubbles would disappear (if they are just bubbles) but I can't catch them and I don't want to stress them out even more. Although, as much as they were swimming around, I would assume if they were bubbles, they would have come off...but they're still there.

I just did my weekly water change (which results in many more bubbles) but I don't remember if I saw the spots before I started that or not.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Helimech...Sorry for taking over your thread. I was at first convinced it was just bubbles...I think I was in denial. These spots are even on some of their side fins that they move constantly and they're not going away. 

I guess I'm going to prepare for the worst and start researching ick. I'll wait until tomorrow to start treating, but I'm going to start my research now. That above link was to a really long article....I better get to reading.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Kordon rid ich plus(not the herbal crap!).Dose full strength to start and follow directions.I always medicate if I suspect ich and have scaleless fish in my tanks.The link explains alot,you won't/can't kill ich till it leaves the fish(as it is under the skin),but when it leaves the fish and falls to substrate that is when the meds work.Vacumming the subsrtate is very important(you can physically remove them then) and raising temp as high as fish will tolerate is helpful.If you're goingto medicate(you should if you truly suspect ich ) then lower your water level alittle so the filter helps agitate the surface and adds more oxygen as ALL MEDS reduce oxygen.
Read the link it is very helpful in understanding life cycle of ich.
It is a killer and if you don't kill it it will kill your fish.But treated quickly it is easily defeated.Keep temp up for at least 1 week after all signs are gone and again,follow directions on bottle(if water is clear{not blue}then the meds are gone and you need to re dose),re dose for all water changes,and remove carbon if you use it while treating.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm kinda spazzing out already.....

Since it is noticeably on the fish and I can't kill it until it leaves the fish, do I still treat it right away? I've got to see if Petco has the stuff. After I treat, do I stay with weekly water changes? I'm starting this link now , maybe I'm jumping the gun on questions. 

I have a glowlight tetra that is unaccounted for....could a decaying fish have caused this? I check every morning to make sure there are no dead fish and I never saw it. Just noticed during the water change today that there are only four. I don't have anything in the tank big enough to eat one...but I'm getting quite a few small fish in there, making it hard to have roll call every morning like I used to.

I just looked online before I go to the store and this is all I found in Kordon brand...
Kordon Ich Attack for Fresh & Saltwater Aquariums at PETCO
And it says "herbal formula"


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Medicating right away is best.If they carry the heral(crap) then they probly have the true med.A dead fish probly wouldn't cause ich especially for someone as dillegent on water changes as you.
Yes still change water ,even maybe more often,BUT replace med for volume of water removed at least.I don't think you have any scaleless fish so I 'll say I have doubled the dose before safely(with scalelless fish).I always recommend following instructions,BUT with dye based meds(rid ich is malechalite green{THE DYE) and formulin)I always tend to believe if the water is not colored as when originally dosed the med is gone.The directions say to dose every 24 hours and allow for"stubborn cases" to dose every 12 hours.
The bottle has RED triangle on front where the herbal has green (I believe).
Ich is a serious killer IMO and warrants a serious med,not a "herbal remedy".The link is very helpful and think if understood makes it clear you have to kill it or it is a killer.
I would start dosing as soon as you get the meds.
If they don't have anything but herbal than look for any other med that is malechalite green and formulin(formulin is formaldehyde aprox 4.26%)


----------



## helimech (Jun 29, 2013)

Coralbandit, will the rid ich medication kill my live plants and snails? Also I heard of those medications turning the silicone in the corner of the tank blue. Is that true?

TY, it's ok. We're both getting good info from the responses.

So much time and energy spent keeping the tank clean, water parameters right, fish healthy, plants healthy and filter clean. And now this stupid parasite can screw up all my hard work. This sucks.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

helimech said:


> So much time and energy spent keeping the tank clean, water parameters right, fish healthy, plants healthy and filter clean. And now this stupid parasite can screw up all my hard work. This sucks.


That's the same thing I've been saying to my husband! Maybe I'm taking it too hard, but I'm angry at these white spots!


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

helimech said:


> Coralbandit, will the rid ich medication kill my live plants and snails? Also I heard of those medications turning the silicone in the corner of the tank blue. Is that true?
> 
> TY, it's ok. We're both getting good info from the responses.
> 
> So much time and energy spent keeping the tank clean, water parameters right, fish healthy, plants healthy and filter clean. And now this stupid parasite can screw up all my hard work. This sucks.


I've had the meds mess with my anacharis and hornwort.Didn't kill all of them but did its fair share of damage.As far as the snails go ?I've dosed copper in one of my saltwater tanks and still have urchin and wild snail,it did wipe out my "turbo snails".
Possibly the herbal med is more appropriate for your situation and probly(all be it crap to me) better than just salt and elaveted temps.Many use salt ,and I do elevate temps but IMO the salt is just BS.Salt is just like a med,but not specific to any one thing.Salt does not naturally occur in very many freshwater fish enviroments(very few in fact) and is truly a skin irratant that helps/causes the fish to produce more slime coating.
Salt is truly effective when osmoregulation(bloating,dropsy,popeye) is an issue as it is how all fish(fresh and salt )intake and output water.Freshwater fish contain more salt than is in water and expell it as necessary,while salt water fish contain less salt than the water and intake it when they need it.So in extreme cases salt helps fish osmoregulate better,but as far as it being a replacement for real meds ,I disagree.
Ich generally speaking runs in a 3-5 day cycle(how long it stays on fish before falling off),so properly dealt with you can kill it in under 10 days and only treat(meds and /or heat ) for less than14-18 days.
Niether one of you be fooled though! Just cause you don't see it does not mean it is gone.It could still be in the substrate and multiplying,which is why you continue treatment 1 week after all signs are gone.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Now I have a female guppy that I bought along with three others yesterday that has red, swollen gills and is about dead. It's floating at the top and only using one fin.

I feel so defeated right now. I just did a water change so I imagine my water is fine, but I'm testing it now. Then I guess I'll be going to Petco with a dead fish and looking for ich medicine.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ty said:


> That's the same thing I've been saying to my husband! Maybe I'm taking it too hard, but I'm angry at these white spots!


Use the anger to agressively kill the ich.Many are very soft(being nervous of doing more damage) but don't realise that the parasites goal is total devistation.KILL IT!
The guppy could be just weak from bad supplier and seller,sorry.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

I have been to Petco and they are out of that Kordon Ich Attach (the herbal one) and that's all they carry for ich. So I was at Wal-Mart after that and found this stuff:
Aquarium Products Fast Relief For Ick & Protozoan Parasites, .75 fl oz: Fish : Walmart.com
It has the two ingredients that the link talks about (formalin and malachite green).

This is what it states for dosing:
"Add 1 drop per gallon daily for all fish except those Of the tetra group. For tetra: add 1 drop per 2 gallons daily." For a maximum of 3 daily treatments.

The bottle looks like it's a cheap brand, but judging by the ingredients...*should I try it*? Petco said they were expecting a truck any time tonight so they MIGHT have some of the herbal stuff on the shelf some time tomorrow.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Use the walmart stuff.Go 1 drop per 2 g first day if everyone seems well,try upping dose to 1 drop per 1 1/2 or 1 g the next day.The tetras will probly be fine but start with lower dose first day just to be sure.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Alright, I'm going to get it soon. One more question.... For now. I'm supposed to take the carbon out of my filter to do this. Will I not be losing a lot of beneficial bacteria? 

I have a Tetra Whisper EX 70 so it has two of the carbon inserts that are made to go with it. Do I just throw them away and put in new ones when this is over with?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If the carbon is enveloped between to parts of insert just use scissors to cut off top of pouch and dump carbon out.Eventually you will do this(hopefully ) with all the inserts,as the carbon provided is problyoor quality,too little quanity and either way very short lived.The insert material can/should just e rinsed in tank water when changing water(not every time but when necessary) and is still good to use till it falls apart.When it needs to be changed ,change only 1 then wait like 2 weeks to change the other.All or most of the bacteria live on /in these pads.You won't lose much BB buy chuckin the carbon.(it really is useless/possibly dangerous) and since you are on a water change schedule you really,REALLY don't need it.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/carbon-not-carbon-54393.html


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

I've read the recent post on carbon so I've been reading what has been said and trying to decide what I'm going to do about going a different route than the carbon filled (well, not FILLED exactly) inserts.

However......I woke up this morning and checked my fish....The spots are gone. Were they in fact just air bubbles, or did the ich spots fall off into the rest of the tank?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I guess you should wait and see?If it is ich it will be back on fish within 3-5 days.
Have you raised your temp,if not that really isn't as bad as adding uneeded meds.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

No, I haven't started raising the temperature yet. It stays at 82 (room temperature apparently) so I was going to raise it to 86 which would just take me a few hours.

I guess I'll wait and keep a close eye on them. Should I just leave everything like it is? Is there any benefit to only raising the temperature?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Raising the temp will stress the ich,BUT may also stress the fish leaving them more open to re infection.I'd wait it out if you think they might have been bubbles.


----------



## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Ty said:


> I have been to Petco and they are out of that Kordon Ich Attach (the herbal one) and that's all they carry for ich. So I was at Wal-Mart after that and found this stuff:
> Aquarium Products Fast Relief For Ick & Protozoan Parasites, .75 fl oz: Fish : Walmart.com
> It has the two ingredients that the link talks about (formalin and malachite green).
> 
> ...


Hi Ty & Helimech: 

In reference to the medicine in the link you put up Ty from Walmart re Quick Cure: I have used it with really good success (as have others on here) in treating Ich, along with raising the temp to 86 (per coralbandit). If the Ich is not gone after the first round of treatment, you can do another round after a water change. I'm not a big fan of the so called "herbal remedies" for fish use either.
I just recently treated a whole school of danios in a qt with the Quick Cure (2 full treatments of 3 days each) and am happy to say NO MORE ICH! I've never witnessed bubbles sticking to the fish Ty (tank/plants yes)...so not sure what to tell you on that, and it's just possible the Ich has left the fish and is now in the substrate and will be back! You mentioned red gills? The Ich can infect the gills also.

To Helimech: Yes, Quick Cure, etc may kill your snails as invertebrates are sensitive to the active ingredients in the meds (malachite, formalin) as are your scaleless fish and neons (follow bottle directions for neons, plecos!) I have not had any problem with the meds or salt killing my plants, but a lot depends on what plants you have ( anubias should be fine..not sure about the swords and anacharis). You might try removing the snails during treatment and keeping them in a smallish container during treatment? Never tried that, but it might be worth a try. And the meds _*will*_ stain the silicone, but usually it's only temporary.

I _*totally agree*_ with Coralbandit regarding other measures as well....You *MUST KILL* the Ich or *it WILL KILL your fish!*


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

Blah. Those spots were back a tad bit yesterday, but they're worse today. My water level is a little lower than normal (like by half an inch) so there are many more of those little bubbles and although I still think these spots looks like the thousands of these bubbles...I wouldn't think they'd be sticking to the same fish on some days and not others. So I'm going to start raising the temperature and head to Wal-Mart in a bit to get those drops.

I cut the carbon out of one of my filter inserts the other day, I'm about to do the same to the other. Do I still just keep them in the filter since they have no carbon in them until after I'm done treating completely, then put new ones in?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Keep your filter inserts until they fall apart.Rinse them in tank water when needed and you're good to go.Since the carbon is gone there is no need to ditch them ever.They are the main source of you beneficial bacteria,so WHEN the time comes to replace them you only want to change 1 and then wait 2 weeks before changin the other.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You have to have ich meds available immediately to nip it away pretty fast. Quick Cure is the best I have ever used, but the Rid Ich+ is a close second. It is the same cocktail of meds idea anyway.

Even if you are able to get this to go away without meds I would have some for anything that may arise in the future. It also works on a number of other ailments. It is like a tool.

Pretty cheap on Amazon...the big stores have crazy prices or won't have it at all.
Amazon.com: Mardel Quick-Cure Aquarium Treatment, 4-Ounce: Pet Supplies


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

That's what the bottle in the store (Wal-Mart) looks like! It is just fewer ounces for a little less than $3. I'm working on raising the temperature right now. I have a brand new heater though and it's frustrating me. I'm trying to get it lined out before I leave to go get the Quick Cure. I don't want to come home to fried fish.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you can get the med I'd say don't raise the temp. Raising temps and using meds together can be slightly dangerous as both deplete oxygen levels in the tank.


----------



## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

So it is the 3rd day of treating with Quick Cure and the spots are gone today (they were still there last night). The bottle says to treat for three days....Should I still treat for another week just in case? Should I do a water change tomorrow before I add more Quick Cure?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That stuff is awesome!

The usual guideline is to treat for a full ich cycle (3-4 days) after you see the last spot. 

I have treated for 3, did a water change, and then 3 more and have never had a problem with it coming back.


----------

