# Why do you do water changes?



## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Historically a touchy subject. People swear by them. They do it because everyone else does or is told to, or do not know how to avoid it. But is it really necessary?

I say no. I think a tank can be set up to where water changes are completely unnecessary.
Give me the reasons why you think they are necessary and I will explain away each one of them. 
If I can't, I may even change my water.

Let's talk about it. Politely. There may be other options.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

This is a good subject.
I change water cuz I overstock my tanks.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

With an adequate filter that can keep up with a heavier bio load (such as a trickle filter) then why would you need to change water? 



big b said:


> This is a good subject.
> I change water cuz I overstock my tanks.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

Lets say that I am a newb and I keep 10 goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, what then?


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Lucky for you they make trickle filters for very small tanks these days.
With the addition of a couple of nitrogen loving plants and a couple small algae eaters or mystery snails I don't see any reason to do anything but enjoy the tank.

What problems are you anticipating that may require you to do a water change?





big b said:


> Lets say that I am a newb and I keep 10 goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, what then?


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

I change water because it makes the fish feel good and it makes me feel good.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

Lets say that I am a 4 year old boy and I dump a whole container of old fish flake food in a 5 gallon with the 10 goldfish?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

My tanks, save one, are all understocked. I have a 40 gallon ( half full) with three fish, the largest being four inches TL and low bioload. I also have on this same tank, two canisters, an Eheim 2222 and Eheim 2213. I do this for them. They are endangered fish, from slow moving streams and I like to give them the best water quality possible. 

I do have it planted too. Just not heavily planted.

Forgot the point at hand... 

I change half weekly. Added back by simulated rain fall.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

The word "best" is a relative term. Best in what way?
Why is the old water not "best"?




majerah1 said:


> My tanks, save one, are all understocked. I have a 40 gallon ( half full) with three fish, the largest being four inches TL and low bioload. I also have on this same tank, two canisters, an Eheim 2222 and Eheim 2213. I do this for them. They are endangered fish, from slow moving streams and I like to give them the best water quality possible.
> 
> I do have it planted too. Just not heavily planted.
> 
> ...


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

best as in super clean or water quality that they would find in the wild I think.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

In the wild the watered is filtered naturally using the nitrogen cycle.

It does not come from a water tap.

Super clean from what?



big b said:


> best as in super clean or water quality that they would find in the wild I think.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

I am not gonna play this game with you.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

big b said:


> I am not gonna play this game with you.


He got your goat, didn't he, Brian?

Have you solved the "parasite" problem in your tank yet Mr. Shakelford?


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Its not a game. As described in the first post, it is a discussion about any valid reason to change your water.

Just because you think tap water is best, is not a valid reason.
If you have nothing to add, no big deal....




big b said:


> I am not gonna play this game with you.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

I never had a parasite problem in my tank. It was a joke. It's just that most people missed it.



LizStreithorst said:


> He got your goat, didn't he, Brain?
> 
> Have you solved the "parasite" problem in your tank yet Mr. Shakelford?


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

Really? I saw nothing in your post to indicate that you were joking. I thought that you were asking for advice.

I just got through changing 250 gallons. Made me feel good and made my fish feel good.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Look again.

"Feel good" is not a valid reason either. So if it made you "feel good" to not change your water then that would be the best?



LizStreithorst said:


> Really? I saw nothing in your post to indicate that you were joking. I thought that you were asking for advice.
> 
> I just got through changing 250 gallons. Made me feel good and made my fish feel good.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

The reason it made me feel good is because it makes the fish feel good. Making the fish feel good is what it's all about, Mr Shakelford.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Never mind. Is there any folks here over 12 years old?
I feel like I am talking to an 3rd grade classroom.



LizStreithorst said:


> The reason it made me feel good is because it makes the fish feel good. Making the fish feel good is what it's all about, Mr Shakelford.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm 64 and 1/2 years old, Mr. Shakelford.

If you want to keep fish without WC it doesn't bother me. They're your fish and you can do with them as you choose.

I do differently. I believe in lots of good clean water. Does that bother you? It shouldn't. The ways we prefer to keep our fish are up to us, no?


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Like I said in the first post, a touchy subject. No one wants to admit they don't have a clue about something.

This is moving past polite so I will be discussing this with someone else now.

Goodbye.




LizStreithorst said:


> I'm 64 and 1/2 years old, Mr. Shakelford.
> 
> If you want to keep fish without WC it doesn't bother me. They're your fish and you can do with them as you choose.
> 
> I do differently. I believe in lots of good clean water. Does that bother you? It shouldn't. The ways we prefer to keep our fish are up to us, no?


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

R.Shakelford said:


> Like I said in the first post, a touchy subject. No one wants to admit they don't have a clue about something.
> 
> This is moving past polite so I will be discussing this with someone else now.
> 
> Goodbye.



I see no reason for you to move on, Mr Shakelford. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. It's just that, well, we all have our own way of caring for our fish. I really was hoping to see how your no WC project progressed. I'd never try it but it would be fun to see someone succeed with out WC.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

I was only looking for some valid reasons why people do water changes. So far I got,
(Because someone thinks tap water is best)
and (because it makes you feel good).

I was actually hoping for a little more intellectual conversation.

For instance, comparing different species of nitrifying bacteria, their preferred habitats, nitrate spikes, ammonia problems etc.....

You know, grown up stuff.

If you want to see someone succeed then look at this photo.

2 months and the water test perfect. Without water changes. No diseases no deaths.





LizStreithorst said:


> I see no reason for you to move on, Mr Shakelford. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. It's just that, well, we all have our own way of caring for our fish. I really was hoping to see how your no WC project progressed. I'd never try it but it would be fun to see someone succeed with out WC.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

You misunderstand me. I said that it makes the fish feel good therefore it makes me feel good.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Did the fish tell you this?



LizStreithorst said:


> You misunderstand me. I said that it makes the fish feel good therefore it makes me feel good.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

R.Shakelford said:


> I was only looking for some valid reasons why people do water changes. So far I got,
> (Because someone thinks tap water is best)
> and (because it makes you feel good).
> 
> ...


Mr Shakeford, that is a lovely calico cat and a nice planted tank. Where are the fish?


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

That is a night time shot. You can tell if you look closely.

Here is a daytime,


I actually have 8 tiger barbs, 2 angels, 8 zebra danios, albino bristle nose pleco, 2 albino dojo's, a half dozen chubs, a ghost knife fish, 6 catfish, 4 algae eaters, several crayfish, several rams horn snails, 



LizStreithorst said:


> Mr Shakeford, that is a lovely calico cat and a nice planted tank. Where are the fish?


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

R.Shakelford said:


> Did the fish tell you this?


They do indeed tell me by their reaction to WC and by their growth and vitality. 

I don't have a big deal degree nor do I manage a water treatment plant. I just watch my fish. Watch your fish and they will tell you what makes them feel good.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

R.Shakelford said:


> That is a night time shot. You can tell if you look closely.
> 
> Here is a daytime,
> 
> ...


Ah, this time I can actually see a small number of fish. Very nice tank. Keep up the good work!


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok R you are starting to sound rude, not many other people can have a conversation about bacteria. Not all of us wanted to go to college to learn about bacteria. Also Someone who doesn't have a clue? Who are you to say that we don't have a clue. Just cuz you went to college and learned about bacteria does not make you an expert. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just telling the truth.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

While it is true water in the wild does not come from the tap, it is still, in the case of streams and rivers, ever moving. It is a vast system. Moving for many miles through plants and rocks. We cannot give the fish many miles of water moving through all of this with a filter alone.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

R.Shakelford said:


> I was only looking for some valid reasons why people do water changes. So far I got,
> (Because someone thinks tap water is best)
> and (because it makes you feel good).
> 
> ...


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

We don't really need to. We don't have miles of water to filter and 800 tons of fish to filter water for.

We can do the same job very efficiently by using a species of bacteria more effective at nitrification that what is found naturally in streams.
By cultivating these efficient species of bacteria in our trickle filter we can mimic nature very closely. After all, we are not dealing with 30 miles of river, only 20 to 150 gallons of water.



majerah1 said:


> While it is true water in the wild does not come from the tap, it is still, in the case of streams and rivers, ever moving. It is a vast system. Moving for many miles through plants and rocks. We cannot give the fish many miles of water moving through all of this with a filter alone.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Even house plants prefer natural water to tap water. So do animals.

You are right, we do add things to tap water to make it safe. Chlorine for one, which also produces chloromines. Even fluoride in some communities. None are great for fish.

I do gather water from the creek for my tank to offset evaporation.

So we agree that naturally filtered water is best for your fish.
We can do this by mimicking nature and using a trickle filter system that nitrifies ammonia into nitrates. Just like in nature. When we do that it is no different than the water you find in any natural stream.
So no need to change the water.

The only way to get real "fresh" water (depending on your definition of fresh)
is to gather rain water or use reverse osmosis/distilled water which is really the same process that produces rain. However water from those sources have nothing. No nutrients, no minerals. However it is "fresh". Unfortunately our fish evolved over millions of years to live in natural water not reverse osmosis water. 
What are your thoughts?

If you want to mimic nature you do it by filtering the water naturally using the same process as a stream or river.
Not by changing water all the time.



majerah1 said:


> R.Shakelford said:
> 
> 
> > I was only looking for some valid reasons why people do water changes. So far I got,
> ...


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

Ok so using your filter, how would I get rid of the nitrates that you said are made by ammonia? There is your reason to change water. And don't say just put some nitrate eating plants, cuz not all people want plants. So if you can't put plants in to get rid of the nitrates then what do you do????


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

So you want to run an aquarium but you dont want to know how it works?
If going to college and learning about filtration does not make someone an expert then what does?
Isn't that what college is for?

If I am sounding rude I apologize. I am not trying to. I just have a passion about aquarium filtration... Its a hobby. 
I actually made my living touring the World the last 40 years as a Jazz Violinist.

I may have a Bachelors degree in water chemistry but I have a Masters degree in music and music is my profession.




big b said:


> Ok R you are starting to sound rude, not many other people can have a conversation about bacteria. Not all of us wanted to go to college to learn about bacteria. Also Someone who doesn't have a clue? Who are you to say that we don't have a clue. Just cuz you went to college and learned about bacteria does not make you an expert. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just telling the truth.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

If you don't want to deal with plants then change your water.
That doesn’t mean water changes are necessary. It means you choose to change your water because you don't want plants. 

It is no different than someone choosing not to have fish because they don't want to buy fish food.





big b said:


> Ok so using your filter, how would I get rid of the nitrates that you said are made by ammonia? There is your reason to change water. And don't say just put some nitrate eating plants, cuz not all people want plants. So if you can't put plants in to get rid of the nitrates then what do you do????


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

Alright guys, I've got this one. We change the water in our aquariums because the levels, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, need to stay at safe levels for the fish. If we don't change the water, the levels can and will spike to dangerous levels killing the fish. Even if you have live plants, you still need to do water changes. Plants help control nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish and if they spike, can kill fish, then you are having to buy more fish, which in my opinion wastes money. As for nitrifying bacteria in a bottle, that only works when cycling an aquarium. You still need to do water changes to maintain the levels, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, so they don't spike and kill all the fish, and if you have plants, so the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate don't get to dangerous levels and kill them too. I do water changes so my water parameters stay normal, which they have so far. That is why we need to do water changes every day, biweekly, weekly, bi-monthly, or monthly, depending on your stocking level.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I would like to see a diagram and a video of a trickle filter.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Your right about all of that. However
If you need to change your water due to nitrites, ammonia then you dont have an adequate filter system to nitrify the ammonia.

A good trickle filter will easily control your ammonia and nitrites.
If yours dont, then you are probably using a filter system that has no environment for Nitrosomonas. Likely your filter system cultivates 
heterotrophic bacteria for the nitrogen cycle.
A single Nitrosomonas cell can convert the same amount of ammonia as approximately 1,000,000 heterotrophic bacteria.

As you said, Plants love nitrates. Some more than others.

So with a good trickle filter and plants to control nitrates there is no reason to do water changes.
You have created a well balanced tank.



Blue Moon said:


> Alright guys, I've got this one. We change the water in our aquariums because the levels, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, need to stay at safe levels for the fish. If we don't change the water, the levels can and will spike to dangerous levels killing the fish. Even if you have live plants, you still need to do water changes. Plants help control nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish and if they spike, can kill fish, then you are having to buy more fish, which in my opinion wastes money. As for nitrifying bacteria in a bottle, that only works when cycling an aquarium. You still need to do water changes to maintain the levels, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, so they don't spike and kill all the fish, and if you have plants, so the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate don't get to dangerous levels and kill them too. I do water changes so my water parameters stay normal, which they have so far. That is why we need to do water changes every day, biweekly, weekly, bi-monthly, or monthly, depending on your stocking level.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

I have to agree with that. But there are many people who cannot afford a good trickle filter, thus having to use a filter that comes with the aquarium. Top Fin and Aqua-tech are pretty good filters. Once I had high nitrates in my 55 gallon tank, had no plants, had a very hard time getting them down, until I cleaned the whole tank. Anyway water changes are important in maintaining the water parameters. Nitrate can cause problems in an aquarium if it gets too high. So water changes can and do more good than harm. The aquarium is a fish's home as well as its bathroom. You wouldn't want your fish to live in filth, would you? So water changes are important in keeping healthy fish their whole lifespan. Even with a trickle filter, you still need to do water changes, because things can get out of whack and crash an established aquarium.



R.Shakelford said:


> Your right about all of that. However
> If you need to change your water due to nitrites, ammonia then you dont have an adequate filter system to nitrify the ammonia.
> 
> A good trickle filter will easily control your ammonia and nitrites.
> ...


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

I made my trickle filter for about a third the price of a Top Fin and Aqua-tech filter.
a bag of lava rock, a cheap 12 dollar plastic chest of drawers from Wal-mart.
Most people can build a trickle filter out of things they have laying around the house.
The entire purpose of a trickle filter is to maintain the control of ammonia and nitrites. With a good trickle filter you do not need to change the water due to nitrite and ammonia problems because they do not have those problems.
With the proper plants you do not have problems with nitrates either.
As far as fish pooping in the water, a majority of Fish waste turns to ammonia which is processed by the bio filter. the rest is fertilizers for the plants. Just like in nature.

Things get out of whack when you don't have an adequate filter.
If you choose to change your water because you don't want an adequate filter then that is a choice. Not a necessity.
You always have the choice to add a trickle filter and avoid water changes if you choose to..

Would you buy fish if you could not afford the fish food?
Why would you buy an aquarium if you cant afford a good filter to treat the water?





Blue Moon said:


> I have to agree with that. But there are many people who cannot afford a good trickle filter, thus having to use a filter that comes with the aquarium. Top Fin and Aqua-tech are pretty good filters. Once I had high nitrates in my 55 gallon tank, had no plants, had a very hard time getting them down, until I cleaned the whole tank. Anyway water changes are important in maintaining the water parameters. Nitrate can cause problems in an aquarium if it gets too high. So water changes can and do more good than harm. The aquarium is a fish's home as well as its bathroom. You wouldn't want your fish to live in filth, would you? So water changes are important in keeping healthy fish their whole lifespan. Even with a trickle filter, you still need to do water changes, because things can get out of whack and crash an established aquarium.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

This is true, but not everyone knows how to make a trickle filter and don't have the means to get the things to make a trickle filter. I am on a limited budget, so I do what I can with what I have. Yes I have had trouble with nitrates in my 55 gallon tank, so I am having to start over, but it will be worth it. Yes I enjoy this hobby and keeping my fish as healthy as can be. The only time I had trouble with ammonia and nitrite was in my one gallon tanks. Now I am planning on being very diligent in doing water changes. 



R.Shakelford said:


> I made my trickle filter for about a third the price of a Top Fin and Aqua-tech filter.
> a bag of lava rock, a cheap 12 dollar plastic chest of drawers from Wal-mart.
> Most people can build a trickle filter out of things they have laying around the house.
> The entire purpose of a trickle filter is to maintain the control of ammonia and nitrites. With a good trickle filter you do not need to change the water due to nitrite and ammonia problems because they do not have those problems.
> ...


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

You can do all the water changes you want.
I started the thread to see the reasons why people do water changes.
So far it is only due to poor filtration. That is easily fixed.



on;621522]This is true, but not everyone knows how to make a trickle filter and don't have the means to get the things to make a trickle filter. I am on a limited budget, so I do what I can with what I have. Yes I have had trouble with nitrates in my 55 gallon tank, so I am having to start over, but it will be worth it. Yes I enjoy this hobby and keeping my fish as healthy as can be. The only time I had trouble with ammonia and nitrite was in my one gallon tanks. Now I am planning on being very diligent in doing water changes.[/QUOTE]


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

Not for many people, it is not an easy fix. Although it could be if you were willing to give trickle filters to everyone on this forum for free.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Most grown up’s buy what they need for their hobby.



Blue Moon said:


> Not for many people, it is not an easy fix. Although it could be if you were willing to give trickle filters to everyone on this forum for free.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

No kidding! That is why people do water changes, they buy what they can afford to get. Not everyone can afford a trickle filter or can get the stuff to make it with.


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## LizStreithorst (Jul 16, 2015)

Another day another 250 gallons...


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I still have not found a better benefit of your trickle vs my canisters. My canisters are out of the way. Not to mention, the bacteria in my filters are doing a very good job. My 40 hex I think had a change about two months ago? Once I do one Ill get a spawn  Where is your trickle filter? I would love to see a photo of your setup showing the input and outflow. 

short version, ill stick with my canisters until you show me a reason to change


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

The water comes from "upstream." Once the glaciers are gone, will there be any fresh water anymore? I don't know. I am hoping to be dead by then. I do not dig constantly recirculating old water things have been peeing in. i know it is done, but by professionals with big waterworks. I am only one little person with a sink and water that still is poisonous to fish. 

So, stop the tease. Lay out those diagrams and let us fish people decide if you are right or not.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

I agree with majerah1, please show us your trickle filter R.Shakelford.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

It has all already been posted in this thread.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/diy-filter-low-94474.html






kalyke said:


> The water comes from "upstream." Once the glaciers are gone, will there be any fresh water anymore? I don't know. I am hoping to be dead by then. I do not dig constantly recirculating old water things have been peeing in. i know it is done, but by professionals with big waterworks. I am only one little person with a sink and water that still is poisonous to fish.
> 
> So, stop the tease. Lay out those diagrams and let us fish people decide if you are right or not.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

How much is a trickle filter? You must know if you are sure people cant afford it.



Blue Moon said:


> No kidding! That is why people do water changes, they buy what they can afford to get. Not everyone can afford a trickle filter or can get the stuff to make it with.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I change water because it's One of the easiest things I can do to help my fish thrive. That and doing EI feet dosing requires it. On my fry tanks I change water every day or every other day.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Ok, 
But the question is why is it necessary?
Can you explain why you think it makes your fish thrive?
I can understand if you have polluted the tank with chemicals (medicine).
I would change it too if I dumped chemicals into it.



chenowethpm said:


> I change water because it's One of the easiest things I can do to help my fish thrive. That and doing EI feet dosing requires it. On my fry tanks I change water every day or every other day.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

I have already explained why water changes are necessary. So I think all people have to do is like my comment about it and there you go.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Water changes are necessary cause my momma said they were! That and because build up of total dissolved solids. And I guess I do dump chemicals in my tank, fertilizers. How come wgen I change water some it triggers some of my fish to spawn? (I know why)


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

In nature we have what is called the water cycle, water is constantly being evaporated and precipitated back into the bodies of water. At my house I am the water cycle!


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Now we have it. The three reasons to change water.

1. Because someone thinks tap water is best
2. Because it makes you feel good.
3. My momma told me to.

If changing your water is making your fish spawn it is probably because you have crappy water in your tank due to an inadequate filter system.
An easy fix.

By the way, a majority of TDS (total dissolved solids) originates from putting chlorine in the water at water treatment plants. They struggle with it all the time. The chlorine dissolves solids and creates TDS.
Whether or not TDS is bad for fish, I have no idea. I am a water chemistry guy. I don't know much about fish. However I can tell you that changing your water is going to make little difference in the TDS of your aquarium. An aquarium does not produce any significant TDS unless you pump it full of chemicals.

P.S Fish also make fertilizer.



chenowethpm said:


> Water changes are necessary cause my momma said they were! That and because build up of total dissolved solids. And I guess I do dump chemicals in my tank, fertilizers. How come wgen I change water some it triggers some of my fish to spawn? (I know why)


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

Okay, first of all, why the hell even create this thread if you are going to expect that a person can easily fix bad filtration problems? It is NOT an easy fix and I have told you one reason why it is not an easy fix. Second, get it through your little peabrain of a head that not everyone can afford a trickle filter, which I assume can cost a lot of money, nor can they afford to make one. Most people are on a limited budget, like myself, and this economy sucks to high water.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

R.Shakelford said:


> If changing your water is making your fish spawn it is probably because you have crappy water in your tank due to an inadequate filter system.


And what exactly makes water "crappy"?


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

The fact that you have to change your water is proof enough. One does not change water that is already perfect.

The short version.

Your filter cultivates heterotrophic bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrites.
A trickle filter cultivates Nitrosomonas bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrites.

A single Nitrosomonas cell can convert the same amount of ammonia as approximately 1,000,000 heterotrophic bacteria.





majerah1 said:


> I still have not found a better benefit of your trickle vs my canisters. My canisters are out of the way. Not to mention, the bacteria in my filters are doing a very good job. My 40 hex I think had a change about two months ago? Once I do one Ill get a spawn  Where is your trickle filter? I would love to see a photo of your setup showing the input and outflow.
> 
> short version, ill stick with my canisters until you show me a reason to change


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

Stop crying.
My trickle filter cost 20 dollars. How much was yours?



Blue Moon said:


> Okay, first of all, why the hell even create this thread if you are going to expect that a person can easily fix bad filtration problems? It is NOT an easy fix and I have told you one reason why it is not an easy fix. Second, get it through your little peabrain of a head that not everyone can afford a trickle filter, which I assume can cost a lot of money, nor can they afford to make one. Most people are on a limited budget, like myself, and this economy sucks to high water.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

Obviously you don't understand the nitrogen cycle at all, based on your responses in this thread. Water changes are important because tap water is not safe for any fish or plants. Go read the nitrogen cycle again and again and again and again, until you have a true, better, and solid understanding of it.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

big b said:


> And what exactly makes water "crappy"?


Crap


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

My filters are great! I never have spikes in ammonia or nitrite and my nitrates are always low or at a level I dosed them too. You don't really know me or my filtration systems. Mostly canisters though. The water change just triggers the spawn, for example if you change water with some colder water some species will spawn. I think I know what I'm doing and my peacock gudgeon fry told me their filtration is fine.


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## BabyGirl77 (Jul 24, 2015)

LOL @chenowethpm


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

It seems to me that you think your filter is better than mine. I disagree. Yours is large and not very nice looking. To be honest I would not want that displayed in my living room. However having a canister under the cabinet discreetly is nice to have. I am sorry I do not buy into the fact that a great filter equals no more water changes, ever. I have two filters on a tank, understocked and still change water. 

I would love to see you house wild caught macrostomas with a trickle filter and no water changes ever. Oh. Happily house them. Many cannot do it without RO water added. My avatar is a wild caught male. Still happy and healthy in my setup. 

Some reason you remind me of Beasl..... Are you allowed your tanks in the house?


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## FancyFish (Jul 22, 2015)

Water changes are my method of choice for maintaining my tanks as the species I keep require very specific water parameters. 

Maintaining tanks:

Reduces buildup of nitrates, which could cause a pH drop. 

Reduce build up of detritus, phosphates, pheromones, ect. 
Which effects water quality.

Replenish minerals and trace elements depleted over time.

Plants are not an option in the majority of the tanks.

Having given a reply to your question and in keeping the discussion polite, please do not reply as to how the method I maintain my tanks are unnecessary.

You do what you feel best for your tank and I will continue to do what is best for my tanks.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

chenowethpm said:


> Crap


Funny but I was actually hoping that shackelford would answer it.


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## clumsycarp (Jul 28, 2015)

this is quite interesting.....but there is a vast difference between mother nature and a water treatment plant.....


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## clumsycarp (Jul 28, 2015)

i would also have to ask. ; why is it that all of the top breeders and distributors in the world do massive water changes at a minimum of once a week ? many even do 100% daily water changes.
is the OP trying to say that those people don't know anything about fishkeeping ?
the tanks in this house get a 25-50% water change at least once a week.


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