# raising water ph level



## alexcb (May 27, 2009)

i want to know how can i raise the ph level of the water in my tank. i heared that the right ph for my flowerhorn is 7.5 to 7.8. is this true?:animated_fish_swimm


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## Oldman (May 25, 2009)

I have no idea what the best pH is for a flowerhorn. The first thing to note is that whatever pH you already have will be the easiest for you to maintain. If it is within the acceptable range for the flowerhorns, I would leave well enough alone. More often than pH, the real need of most fish is an appropriate mineral content for the fish. Do you have data on the TDS and hardness that a flowerhorn needs and the corresponding values for your tap water? With those 2 things, we could make some educated suggestions on how you could get your water close enough for the fish you want. You need to consider that doing so may make it hard for other fish to live in the same tank.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2009)

What is your current pH level? 

I would strongly recommend NOT to tamper with your pH, as it will be extremely difficult to maintain a stable level. If the pH suddenly drops or raises, it can become a threat to your fish.


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## JIM (May 27, 2009)

*X-3
If the ph is not way out of line it would be a pain to be always trying to adjust your source water, and probably more detrimental to the fish than a couple of points off of perfect. Fish adjust within reason *


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## alexcb (May 27, 2009)

thanks for enlightening me. but i dont know what is TDS and i thought hardness is the ph or alkalinity of water. can you also teach me how to ensure my fish can have adequate minerals. i sounds essential to me. thanks again EXpeRTshttp://www.aquariumforum.com/images/icons/icon14.gif


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## Oldman (May 25, 2009)

Hardness is the concentration of calcium and magnesium ions in the solution. It does not take into account any other anions. 
KH is also called temporary hardness, it is a measure of how well water can resist being made acidic by acids and similar compounds. It is usually related back to equivalent values of carbonates and so is called carbonate hardness. 
TDS is total dissolved solids. It is a measure of dissolved solids in the water usually expressed in ppm but it does not take into account the suspended solids floating around as particles in the water. Suspended solids can be filtered out of the water by a simple filter and are almost never part of the equation when talking about fish keeping water. 
pH is a measure of the acidity of water, the units of pH are actually the power of ten of the inverse of the number of hydrogen ions in a mole of water. Forget the technical definition and think of it as water above 7.0 pH is basic in nature and water with a pH below 7.0 is acidic. Each whole number lower of pH is a power of ten, ten times, the acidity of the next number. That means that a pH of 5.0 is ten times as acid as a pH of 6.0 (it has ten times the H+ ions). 

There are typical relationships between pH and KH because a high KH almost always is associated with a higher pH. These relationships are not a requirement of the parameter but just typical relationships. A classic example is the value that we call hardness. There are fish that are considered to be soft water fish because they do not tolerate a high mineral content in their water and that often means soft acidic water. People will go out and buy a domestic water softener to "help" these fish. Once you realize that a domestic water softener only works to remove calcium and magnesium by substituting sodium, the softener does not look as beneficial to the fish. It gets even worse when you look at the resulting total dissolved solids. By replacing a Ca++ with 2 ions of Na+, you have in essence doubled the anion concentration of the resulting water while "softening" it. Soft in this case has nothing to do with soft in terms of meaning low mineral content. The mineral content has been raised and the soft water fish are now worse off.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

In laymans term, if your kH is low (0-2dKH) and you add x amount of acid or base, your pH can shift dramatically compared to if you add the same amount to water that has a higher kH. Carbonates act as a buffer for the pH. The most common way to increase your kH is to use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). You can find kH (carbonate hardness) and GH (general hardness) test kits.

If you are serious about changing your pH, the best way IMO is to adjust your pH using a combination of an acid and akaline (base) buffer to get to a target pH. This keeps your pH from shifting, however, every time you do a water change you will need to adjust the new water to the target pH prior to adding it to your tank. The ideal solution however, is to get fish (etc) that is compatible to the water you have, keeping in mind that most fish/plants/inverts can adjust to a range of pH.

For instance in my pressurize CO2 tank the pH fluctuates from about 6.8 to 6.3 daily due to the CO2 turning on and off at night. Most fish are completly fine to this amount of fluctuation as long as it is not a spiked change.


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## Oldman (May 25, 2009)

Sorry and happy you stepped in Dmaaaaax. Sorry that I went too far on the technical end but that was how I read the question. Happy that you expressed much the same thing in very simple if a bit simplistic terms. Depending on the person's needs, I can't say which is a better explanation for the poster.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

Oldman said:


> Sorry and happy you stepped in Dmaaaaax. Sorry that I went too far on the technical end but that was how I read the question. Happy that you expressed much the same thing in very simple if a bit simplistic terms. Depending on the person's needs, I can't say which is a better explanation for the poster.


No problem...You obviously know your stuff, but since the poster did not seem to know what TDS (total dissolved salts) meant or exactly what hardness was, I did not want your post to scare him away. Now this thread will help out the new and those who have been at it awhile.


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## alexcb (May 27, 2009)

thanks masters. i will try to learn more coz i think i really need to. with the help of the experts here i hope in time i could be a good fishkeeper and in the future a breeder. thanks a lot again!!!:angler_fish::animated_fish_swimm:fishRed::fishGreen::fish5::crabbycrab:


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

well i can tell you this much once you find a way to get your new water to the ph you want it, its a piece of cake to keep your ph right


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2009)

phil_pl said:


> well i can tell you this much once you find a way to get your new water to the ph you want it, its a piece of cake to keep your ph right


Not really. If your tap water is different from the tank water, it is going to be VERY difficult.


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

i just had to adjust my water before i put it im my tank
my tap was 7.0 and my tank was 8.2


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## Oldman (May 25, 2009)

A spread like that means treating every bit of water that goes into the tank before you add it, or making only very small water changes Phil. The only consistent way that I am aware of to raise and maintain pH is to use things like crushed coral in the filter and to be very careful to always change the same amount of water on a frequent basis so that the pH does not rise too far before the next change.


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

Oldman said:


> A spread like that means treating every bit of water that goes into the tank before you add it, or making only very small water changes Phil. The only consistent way that I am aware of to raise and maintain pH is to use things like crushed coral in the filter and to be very careful to always change the same amount of water on a frequent basis so that the pH does not rise too far before the next change.


i have never herd of the crushed coral technique. do you have any more information on it


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

A difference in ph like that can also be caused by how much your tap water out gases. A friend of mine is on well water, which has a high concentration of O2 so the ph out of the tap is 5.8 after the water sits for awhile and out gases the O2 the ph is 9.1.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

I do 25% water changes ever week. I put 20g of tap water into a trash can the day before and add the same amounts of Seachem's acid buffer and akaline buffer every time....easy, peasy!

I add 1/8 tsp acid buffer and 1/2tsp akaline buffer. This raises my tap water's pH from ~7.0 to ~7.5 and raises the kH from around 1-2 to ~3-4. Once I add this amount to my tank that is at ~6.4pH and ~3kH, the pH goes up to around 6.6 but gradually goes back down due to the CO2. The fish love the new water and are not phased by the difference at all. You would not have to worry about the CO2 part, just get your water to the pH you want and save your measurements.

Basically what I am saying is that once you know your tap's pH, kH, and GH, if you always use the same amount of water (x gallons) you can figure out exactly how much of each buffer to add, and never have to worry about it again. Actually I would check your tap 2-3 times a year, just to be safe...but it should not fluctuate much...lol.

Susan, some of that gassing off could also be from CO2?


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## Oldman (May 25, 2009)

The crushed coral technique is easy as can be. Put some crushed coral in the filter and it will gradually raising both the pH and KH of the water. (It is the reason you should never use the substrate they sell for a salt water tank in a freshwater tank) Since it is slowly dissolving and raising pH, you decide how high you want to allow and just change water often enough to keep the pH and KH in a narrow band. Depending on how acid the water started out, the crushed coral will dissolve faster or slower. If the pH was fairly high to start with, the rate will be very slow.


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