# Please help, losing fish like crazy.



## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

So im honestly not even sure where to start.
about two months ago, I got a 75 gallonk tank, then slowly being to introduce fish to it in twos. Everything was fine and dandy until about a week ago then my fish just started dropping dead like crazy.
Honestly in three days 6 fish died or something like that.
So I was naturally freaking out, went to petsmart got the water tested and they said it was completly normal. Then they asked me if I had a heater and I said no, basically I was freezing my fish out. Its been about two days with the heater, and after one day another two fish have died. The one which was a dolmation molly looked sick for a couple day and I had put her into a hospital tank, and she passed about 20 hours ago. And then I just woke up this morning and my female fancy guppy, who when I went to bed was swimming around like a happy healthy fish is laying dead in one of my plants. 

Sol im not even really sure what im wondering, could these dead fish just have been sick from before when i didnt have a heater? Or could something else be wrong?

My other fish are all swimming around like happy fishies, their eating and healthy... as far as I can see..

What I have left in my tank is..

One Dalmatian.
Two redtailed sharks
Two swordtails. (male female)
Black molly
Lepoard cat fish???? I really don't know what this fish is. I honestly never see it, and its about one inch bigger than the glofish
Pink glofish
Two orange platies
Two white/ yellowish fish that I don't know what they are. Guess would be yellow platies, and when I bought them they were in the same tank as the orange ones.

And one last note.. all the fish that have died, literly everyone minus the one dalmation molly were from a pet store, and the rest were all from pet smart.
Do you think this could have something to do with it.
The only fish I have left from this petstore is the two swordtails and the redtailed sharks


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Is the tank cycled?Do you have live plants?If the tank isnt cycled then you are losing fish because the filter cant hold the bioload.The fish will continue to die until the filter gets some beneficial bacteria on it.


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

What was the water temp before you added the heater? What is the current water temp? I have read where red tailed sharks shouldn't be in a community tank. They are considered hostile.

Red Tail Shark


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

So what is the temperature of the water and what was it before? I'd be very surprise if temp did mych of anything. This time of year, hard to keep my water below 80 with no heater.

When is the last time you did a water change and what are your normal maintenance prectices? Are you using de-chlorinator?

In general if you get a bunch of fish die, there is something wrong with your water and you should do a 50% water change. Most problems with fish health can be fixed with frequent wter changes.


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

what kind of substrate do you have? in the past, i have had fine sand produce hydrogen sulfide when organic matter got trapped in it. it killed several fish a day until i stirred the sand and it released stinky bubbles. the only other thing i have had that killed a lot of fish quickly was pfiesteria piscicida, which causes sores on the body after it kills the fish. i doubt the latter is your problem, it usualy only pops up with very high phosphates.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Okay so im really new to fish keeping so itrying to do my best to understand you all.
I know some because I have spent hours doing research when my fish started dying.
I cycled the water a bit, probably changing 20 percent so far, I didn't was to over whelm the fish anymore then they allready had been. And when I cycle the water as far as I understand thate means taking old water out and putting new water in correct? And when i put new water in I let it sit for a day first.
And I dont know how cold the water was but it was cold haha.
Keeping it below eighty is not a [roblem for me because I have central air, the water was to cold. The heater is in and its set on eighty but I dont think its that far along yet. Probably about 75 degree water. 
I dont have any live plants.
The redtailed sharks as far as that goes the pet store guy told me that sence my tank was so big that they would be fine.

As far as this goes "what are your normal maintenance prectices? Are you using de-chlorinator?"
Im not really sure what any of that means. Please explain?
I also don't know what substrate is.. explain please..

Wow I feel very newbish.
But I dont think its dieases because I havent noticed any spots or anything on all the fish, besides some acting funny right before they died they all looked healthy. And petsmart said my water was great so again, I dont think thats it.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

No,cycling has to do with the nitrogen cycle.Read that here:http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html

There are many instances where the people at pet stores will give false information,not alway on purpose,mind you.Most go by the fish they have in,in many cases they are babies.

Substrate,is the gravel sand or whatever you have on the bottom of the tank.Maintenance is what you mistake as cycling.Maintenance includes removing water and adding new,checking the filters for clogs and rinsing the pads in old tank water(to preserve the bacteria.)Also this includes cleaning the gravel of wastes with a gravel vac or through live plants.

Diseases do not only show up as spots,some will also be a shiny gold sprinkling or even a cottony growth,or the loss of fins and things like this.Sunken bellies,not eating,fins held close to the body,red swollen gills.These are things we look for to see what is wrong with them.

I also want to add,that many members here have joined because they need help,so dont feel like a newb.Its not something everyone can just plop down and get right the first time.


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

When I do a water change I fill the bucket with water, using a thermometer to fill at the same temp as the tank. I then add a dechlorinator called Prime (there are others at your LFS). I let it sit for a minute or so then put it in the tank. Cold water can shock the fish so you want the new water close to tank temp.
Substrate would be your gravel, sand,etc. You should purchase a gravel vacuum (there are instruction videos on youtube) and use it when doing a water change.
You might also invest in some form of water test kit, liquid or strips. I use the liquid because I don't think the strips are that accurate, but that's just me.

Oops, must have been typing when majerah was.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> I cycled the water a bit, probably changing 20 percent so far, I didn't was to over whelm the fish anymore then they allready had been. And when I cycle the water as far as I understand thate means taking old water out and putting new water in correct? And when i put new water in I let it sit for a day first.


The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

You should read up on the Nitrogen cycle. Cycling is the term most aquarium keepers use when it comes to starting up the Nitrogen cycle in an aquarium. There's a few ways to do it, I'll list them (the easiest would be the first one, the more complicated would be the last)

*Cylcing with a fish*
You get one hardy fish to establish the bacteria in the water. For example a Platy. This is very stressful for the fish and their lifespan will be shortened. Then you slowly add fish one by one or in pairs.
*Silent Cycle*
You're also using one fish to establish bacteria, but you have many fast growing plants that will make the water less stressful for the fish. You also add fish slowly, one by one or in pairs.
*Fishless Cycling*
No fish. You use a direct source of ammonia (only ammonia, nothing that contains soap or suds). That will establish the bacteria. It is a little more complicated as you have to know more about the chemistry of your water but it is humane and there is no stress on the fish.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html




stephy100893 said:


> As far as this goes "what are your normal maintenance prectices? Are you using de-chlorinator?"


Tap water contains Chlorine and is harmful to fish. You need a de-chlorinator to remove the Chlorine. It's usually called water conditioner. Aquasafe is the most popular brand.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Okay im reading the nitrogen cycle as soon as I reply.
For substrate, I just have white rocks that you buy in a big bag.
For matainence I have cycled probably about 20 percent of the water, I didn't want to do it too fash and overwhelm the fish anymore. I do check the fliters and remove all junk that gets in them.
With the filters, I just rinsed them off in water, I didnt know anything about old tank water?
Can you please elaborate on that..
&& I swear it sounds crazy, but up intill the fish start acting weird they are completly active and seem happy. The fish that all died, they were acting weird before they died, besides the male guppy who honestly shocked me by dying.
They were staying towards the bottom, sometimes swimming on their side && hiding extremly well which was not normal for some of them.
They all look physically healthy they just wernt asking it. They never looked any diffrent from before they acted weird to when they died. But when it came to eating they would still swim up to the top and eat as normal then just go back to their normal position when done eating.
The fish I had that died were 2 fancy guppys, one dalmation molly, two regular guppys, im not sure their bread they were bigger though and three anglefish.
The anglefish, I was told were agressive but if I got three they would leave the other fish alone, and the store recommended them to balance the tank out so I got them.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> For substrate, I just have white rocks that you buy in a big bag.


You have to rinse those rocks before putting them in the tank because they contain a lot of junk harmful to the fish.

Edit: You should also buy an API Water Test Kit, so you can test the water yourself. I have a feeling your "pet store guy" didn't really test your water, or lied when he said the water was fine.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

I knew about the adding fish slowly. I started off with the two mollys because the fish store told me they were more deriable and could take being starter fish for a tank. 
and for the chlorine in tap water, I was told that as long as you let it sit for about a day the chlorine would disapate and then the water would be fine.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Pigeonfish said:


> You have to rinse those rocks before putting them in the tank because they contain a lot of junk harmful to the fish.
> 
> Edit: I have a feeling your "pet store guy" didn't really test your water, or lied when he said the water was fine.


I had the rocks for a very long time because I had a tank about two years ago, so they wernt knew out of the bag, but I did wash them all by hand before starting the new tank..
and for the water testing I thought he might do something like that sence all the fish that died were from his store so I got the water testing done at petsmart.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> but I did wash them all by hand before starting the new tank..


Actually, if it's from an old tank, then you probably shouldn't have washed the substrate because it contains a lot of beneficial bacteria that will help cycle your fish tank. You should only rinse the gravel when it's brand new, out of the bag.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Pigeonfish said:


> Actually, if it's from an old tank, then you probably shouldn't have washed the substrate because it contains a lot of beneficial bacteria that will help cycle your fish tank. You should only rinse the gravel when it's brand new, out of the bag.


Yeah but like they had been sitting in a box and were really dust after not having use for so long so I didnt think that was good to put in the tank as is.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> Yeah but like they had been sitting in a box and were really dust after not having use for so long so I didnt think that was good to put in the tank as is.


Ahhh. Of course, then it was fine that you rinsed it. I thought you had a tank that was running with water and put the gravel directly in your tank. If the gravel dries up then all the beneficial bacteria dies.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Pigeonfish said:


> Ahhh. Of course, then it was fine that you rinsed it. I thought you had a tank that was running with water and put the gravel directly in your tank. If the gravel dries up then all the beneficial bacteria dies.


Nono, I ended my last tank two years ago because I was moving a pretty big distance, so I gave the fish to a neighbor, he allready had a tank though so he didnt need anything from mine so I kept it all.

So knowing I didnt do something wrong is great haha. So if its not the rocks, and the water is fine, and the temp is now going up, any other ideas?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

When doing a waterchange,many drain the water into a bucket.Then they take the filter pad,and swish it in the water in the bucket.This keeps the good stuff on the pad(running it under the tap removes all the good stuff)and gets the loose debris off so it will still have good flow.

On the used rocks.As Pidgeonfish said,if they were from an established tank then rinsing isnt necessary.However,if they have been dried out then cleaning will be needed.

Cold water does indeed shock fish.I have a bucket above the tank and use airline to drain fresh dechlorinated water into the tank.It adds slow enough that the temperature is not a dramatic difference.

A test strip is what most pet stores will use,and they are not accurate.I would suggest you get a master freshwater test kit,should be close to the dechlorinators(which you need too if you dont have any)

What I think happened,and if you read up on the cycling you will understand this better.The fact that the tank has not been up and going for long,has not given your filter time to build up enough bacteria to convert the ammonia over to the less harmful nitrite,and then the less harmful nitrate.This in turn caused the water to be full of ammonia(like urine)or nitrites and the fish cannot handle this.They will go to the bottom,gasping,and later die.Its not your fault but the fault of the store employees who have failed to do what they get paid to do,and that is to inform you of the proper care of these animals.

I suggest you not add any more fish to the tank.What you have,try to keep them as healthy as possible while your tank cycles.The addition of live plants will help keep the tank more stable and the fish a little more happy.Once the tank does cycle,then research the fish you want and add them very slowly so the filter can accomodate the bioload of the fish.Be sure to stock lightly.You dont have to have a fully stocked tank in order to enjoy it.On the contrary if you have a balance of flora and fauna,its more peaceful to watch.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> So knowing I didnt do something wrong is great haha. So if its not the rocks, and the water is fine, and the temp is now going up, any other ideas?


I don't think your tank was fully cycled... tank was able to support the Mollys but when you started adding the other fish, your tank didn't support the bioload.

Although, not exactly related, in the future keep this in mind:

Changing the filter media can cause a mini cycle because most of the beneficial bacteria says in the filter media.

Besides the regular filter media, I also keep a sponge that I never change. That way the bacteria always stays there. And instead of changing the filter media every month, I rinse it whenever it gets too dirty and then put it back. I do that until right before the filter media starts breaking apart. It takes about 3-4 rinses before that happens.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

As soon as im done on this forum I am going to clean the filters as a first thing. 
And yeah,im sure that may have been one of the problems so when I got the heater I mean the fish did stop dying accept for two, but there was 6 that died before the heater so im assuming maybe those two were just too far gone from the cold to be helped.. 

Also monday I am going to go by some prime, and a testing kit.

As far as the tank goes, I let it run on its own for a week, and then introduced two fish, and then waited a week and added them in twos or threes. The only thing is if the nitrate was the problem why were all the fish fine for so long before they just started dying a week ago? && yeah, honestly in the last day I have learned more from this forum then anything close to what these fish stores tell me. Who knew fish were so high maintance? haha
I also am not planning on adding any more fish for at least a couple weeks to make sure that no more die. If no more die in about 3 weeks then I will introduce two new ones. After I research the breed.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> . Who knew fish were so high maintance? haha


Not really high maintenance.

You just gotta take a week and do research and take things slowly.

Just like you would when considering getting a cat or dog. :3


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

So as of two minutes ago, my sword tail fish, the male was dead. I was putting the filters back un and he was laying on the bottom of the tank dead. Not only an hour ago he was swimming around happy as ever with all the other fish but he was eating. I checked him. He looks completly normal, no spots, dots, missing fins or scales. UGH.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Pigeonfish said:


> Not really high maintenance.
> 
> You just gotta take a week and do research and take things slowly.
> 
> Just like you would when considering getting a cat or dog. :3


Haha I have had my dog and cat for 11 years. They are pretty easy going. a puppy seems easy at this point.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

stephy100893 said:


> Haha I have had my dog and cat for 11 years. They are pretty easy going. a puppy seems easy at this point.


Don't worry, most people start off frustrated with fish keeping. I got into the hobby because my best friend was having trouble with their fish, I ended up nursing and keeping a lot of them. I always did my research though, so I didn't have many problems. It also helped that the employees of the pet store I go to, are very nice and knowledgeable.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Pigeonfish said:


> Don't worry, most people start off frustrated with fish keeping. I got into the hobby because my best friend was having trouble with their fish, I ended up nursing and keeping a lot of them. I always did my research though, so I didn't have many problems. It also helped that the employees of the pet store I go to, are very nice and knowledgeable.


Yeah I am very fustrated. Like the sword tail just died. and literlly an hour ago, he was swimming arounf and eating because I fed them. then bam dead!
Like I just don't understand :l


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hell, I got frustrated reading all of that.

The link posted by Pigeonfish is a good place to go and read about what will or has happened in your tank. In a nutshell, ammonia will rise from fish and food waste, then about the time it starts to go down, nitrites will rise. Once they start going down on their own, nitrates will usually rise. Once ammonia and nitrites are gone, usually the tank has been through the nitrogen cycle - or it has "cycled." This is all taking place because the benficial bacteria in your tank is growing and naturally taking care of the bad stuff in your tank. This is referred to as your bio-filter.

If I had to guess, I'd say that your tank probably has high nitrites right now. You need to remove approx 50% of the water in there and replace it with "treated" water. Treated with something that removes chlorine from the water. If you have not treated any water in your tank to date, the chlorine has been killing all of the beneficial bacteria in your tank and may be why your tank has not gone all the way through the nitrogen cycle yet. The chlorine can also kill your fish. You will continue to loose fish until you get the hazardous stuff out of your tank. Do the water change now if you have water treatment - don't do without. 

If you're going to wash out your filter, the reason why you should not do it from your tap is the chlorine in your tap will kill the bacteria that has been growing in your tank - this is beneficial bacteria you need to keep your tank safe.


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

Stephy here is a link that describes what the various chemicals will do to your fish. You will most likely find your problem and answer here.

Diseases that affect Tropical Freshwater Fish


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> When doing a waterchange,many drain the water into a bucket.Then they take the filter pad,and swish it in the water in the bucket.This keeps the good stuff on the pad(running it under the tap removes all the good stuff)and gets the loose debris off so it will still have good flow.
> 
> On the used rocks.As Pidgeonfish said,if they were from an established tank then rinsing isnt necessary.However,if they have been dried out then cleaning will be needed.
> 
> ...


Cold water does NOT cycle as fast as warm water does. A-lot of employees at fish sores have no clue of what that are doing. ( I apologize to those who do ) and glo-fish will eat your sharks*r2


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Haha,glo fish eating sharks.I dont buy any fish from petstores,save maybe once or twice depending on what the fish looks like.I prefer to get mine from fellow hobbyists.how many times have you seen wild species of bettas in stores,especially places like petco,petsmart and walmart?

The sad thing though is the employees who give bad info,make a bad name for all pet store employees and many people who know this,take all information-even good-with a grain of salt.Poor scuff was constantly having to take up for pet store employees,lol.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Okay So I am going to read through all your comments, and links as soon as I can. I do have two new things to add. But first I would like to say thankyou for everything. Even if all my fish do die at this point, I will know how to properly start a tank over, and hopfully by then the tank will be through the full cycle.

Anyways, when I woke up this morning, one of my red tails was dead. I examinened him for spots, dots or gills missing. Any of the signs you guys pointed out. Nothing, so I am not totally sure why he died, allthough it may have been the other red tail?

And the other thing my dad made me realise. Besides one dalmation molly that had died (but that fish always acted weird from the begining, so it didnt really suprise me when it died.) EVERY fish I have that died has been from this pet store I talk about. && I didn't completly realise this until my dad said something.

So if my levels really are fine, and the temp is now at a good level, do you think maybe the fish I am buying from this pet store could be dieased? Like is that possible? That a certian pet store as bad fish? Like maybe they buy them from bad fish dealers, or they don't maintain them well. I do remember one time while I was at the fish store there was this huge fish probably a foot long, that was dead and the other fish was eating it.. I mean those fish are bigger they probably don't die as easy. && I told the guy, and he was just like okay. && didn't even go check it out or anything.

It's just a hunch I have. Any opinions????


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I buy fish from local pet stores all the time and for the most part have a great luck. You need to remember the amount of stress that a fish goes through before they hit your home and the amonut of stress they go through from the store to your home. One of the very best things I started doing that decreased my fish fatalities was drip acclimation. Personally, I think it gives the fish the very best chance of surviving your tank and it sort of have a calming effect on them.

Without testing to see what your water has it is hard to say if the water you're putting them in isn't the main cause of them dying. I would not put another fish in unless you tested the water first. As I posted once before I believe, you NEED to do a 50% water change NOW. Water changes are the only way you'll keep fish alive when the tank is going through the cycle....no chemical is safe to add during that phase. Water change, water change, water change.....get used to it.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Well the reason I havent done a water change, is because I dont want to just put tap water in because I know how bad it is now.. & I wont have money until monday to by prime, or any other brand of that stuff to glean the tap water.

&& I get what your saying about the stress.. But you don't think that its a little ironic, that 9 out of 10 of the fish that have \died are from this pet store?
and the other 10 left are minus two are all from petsmart?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I look at it this way.....if your water if free of ammonia and nitrites (something you're not sure of yet), hard to say one way or the other. The healthiest fish you can buy can be taken down by this stuff.


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## stephy100893 (Jul 30, 2011)

Yeah I know I keep saying that I took the water in a could of days ago, and it was fine. But tomorrow when I have the money, when i buy the prime, I also plan on buying a testing kit.
But how could the water change that much from when I got it tested 3 days ago?


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

Go to this web-site Manufacturers of Yamato Green, the finest aquarium plant fertilizer in the world! Mysterious Fish Deaths Explained!
they have some very good info... more than just water parameters and water changes check it out


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

You can also help air off gasses in your tap water if you fill a bucket and let it sit uncovered for 24-48 hours. That will allow chlorine and other toxins to air off. You still need to treat the water with Water Conditioner to get anything that the airing off process didn't get rid of. (Just remember you saying you didn't want to use tap water... you can use it if you let it sit out and treat it too.)


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