# 5 gallon tank questions



## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Hey guys, this is my first post here! This is also my first aquarium!

(You can skip this paragraph, its more of an introduction!)
My girlfriend and I were just browsing through a pet store one day and she wanted to get a bunny (Of course). I said why don't we grab a betta!? I've had one before! So we bought the betta along with a 0.5 gallon tank which came to around 30 dollars (With plants, gravel, and a lounge leaf). long story short, we returned the tank because of a defect in it and ended up walking out with a 5 gallon tank, a new bag of gravel and a LOAD of stuff: Plants, colored gravels, ornaments, decorations, food, treats for the betta. Anyways...
(Heres where my questions start!)

We wanted to add some tankmates to our betta in his 5gal. So we did some research and we decided a Neon tetra, a golden zebra danio, and a small pleco would be ok. In doing so I figured it would be a smart idea to get some aeration and filtration in there so I bought a 7 gallon filter system with a small, 5 gallon aerator and stone. (Pics below)

My question is: Do these fish have enough room, or did I mess up and crowd them too much? I've read that plecos are supposed to be in 50+ gallon tanks! :fish9: 

also, is this lighting (See pic) ok for night time? Its a single white LED at the far left side above the bubbles.

thanks so much for the help, we really appreciate it!

Ps. The fishs' diets are in order, I have that all under control!



daytime









night time











my awesome little pleco, hiding under the betta's leaf!


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

that Pleco... those guys, although cute and small now, grow over a foot and a half long... so yeah a 5 gallon isn't going to cut it for him. 5 gallons is even too small for the smaller species of Bristlenose Plecos.

Zebra Danio are recommended to be in no less than 10 gallons since they're a pretty active fish that need room to swim. I have a group of 4 Blue Danios in my 30 gallon, and they're non stop form side to side of the tank, so they make use of the entire 36" of tank... I can only imagine if they were confined to a 5 gallon...

Neon Tetras are the same in that they need room. They're also a schooling fish and do best in groups of 5 or 6 (the more the better, without overcrowding of coarse). 

My honest opinion is that if you want to have a tank smaller than 10 gallons, it shouldn't hold any more than one small fish and maybe a few shrimp...

Just keep a close eye on your water parameters with that number of fish in a small tank. I'm not going to say that it's going to be impossible to keep the tank healthy (although I'm am going to recommend AGAINST it), but the ammonia can skyrocket pretty quick if you make the bioload too much for the tank to handle. That little Pleco might be fine for a few months, but in a 5 gallon, I'd get rid of him once he reaches 1 1/2 to 2 inches long... any bigger than that and you're pushing it... Also, I'd recommend you to do a little research on Plecos as well. Their diet and needs are a little more complex than most people make it out to be. That way if in the future, you do get a larger tank and want to get a Pleco for it, you'll know exactly how to handle him (or her)

The lighting looks fine. In a tank like that, the light is purely for looks. No live plants, so you don't have to worry about them getting enough light. And a single LED isn't going to be enough to cause algae problems either. But I wouldn't leave it on all night. Fish go through a sleep cycle like every other creature on earth. Have light 24/7 will have them all messed up...



Seeing that this is your first aquarium, I'd recommend doing some searching and reading up on the nitrogen cycle and cycling a new tank. Having an aquarium, you're basically in control of a mini ecosystem, and it helps to know all about what makes it "tick" if you want to have a good experience with it.



Welcome to the addiction by the way


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> that Pleco...
> Welcome to the addiction by the way


Thanks so much for such a lengthy, in depth response! I really appreciate it. I guess I figured it would be easy to throw some fish in water and watch them swim!! Now that I'm addicted, ill have to do my reading!

As for the ammonia, I'm assuming that all of the fish contribute to the pollution in the tank, correct? So what options do I have to care to that matter? I was thinking a weekly 50% water change would suffice but I cringe because I know I'm wrong there...! 

I originally wanted a pleco for cleaning some algae up in the tank, but I now know I may have to reconsider! He seems to like zucchini (blanched and skinned) quite a bit! 

So is it ok if these guys are in pitch black? My house has no light during the night at all (I'm assuming the "wild" doesn't either!  )

Thanks again for all your help!


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

kestik said:


> Thanks so much for such a lengthy, in depth response! I really appreciate it. I guess I figured it would be easy to throw some fish in water and watch them swim!! Now that I'm addicted, ill have to do my reading!
> 
> As for the ammonia, I'm assuming that all of the fish contribute to the pollution in the tank, correct? So what options do I have to care to that matter? I was thinking a weekly 50% water change would suffice but I cringe because I know I'm wrong there...!
> 
> ...


If you're addicted, I suggest perhaps investing in a 30 gallon tank, I believe Petco is having a sale "dollar per gallon" so you might be able to get one for 30 dollars. It's a steal.

The fish will be fine in a den as long as you don't mind seeing your fish too much. They don't need the light, actually too much light might bother them.


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

As mentioned above Plecos get big and fish need space to swim even my Betta swims in a 29 gallon tank. a 5 gallon is a waste of money only good enough for fry are a quarantine tank sorry if I sound harsh fish need a good place to live..


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

As the above have mentioned your tank is rather small for your choices of tank mates. Tetras like the room as do danios. Shrimp would do well in the tank and are great little things to watch (and help clean up left overs and algae)

They should do alright with the betta


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

kestik said:


> As for the ammonia, I'm assuming that all of the fish contribute to the pollution in the tank, correct? So what options do I have to care to that matter? I was thinking a weekly 50% water change would suffice but I cringe because I know I'm wrong there...!


Fish waste, uneaten/decaying food, and decaying plant matter all release ammonia in the tank. Plecos are cute but produce a lot of waste for their size (they poop out long strands that can be unsightly as well). They also require supplemental food in the form of algae wafers and/or vegetables. Common Plecos are only suitable for 50G+ aquariums and when full grown require tanks in the triple digit gallonage. A 5 gallon aquarium is only large enough for a solitary betta (or a couple Dwarf Frogs, shrimp, etc) for all intents and purposes and even the smaller bristlenose plecos require at least 20 or 30 gallons.

In an established aquarium the ammonia is removed by bacteria that forms in (mainly) your filter. Presence of ammonia is all that is needed for the bacteria to form but there are two main problems. 1) It takes a much higher level of ammonia to form bacteria within a reasonable amount of time (1-3 weeks) than fish can tolerate and 2) while the bacteria removes ammonia, it produces nitrites (NO2) which are just as harmful, if not more so, than ammonia. In the presence of high NO2, bacteria eventually forms (these take about twice as long to colonize as the ammonia-eating bacteria) to convert them to nitrate (NO3) which is much less harmful to fish and can be removed by partial water changes.

Since you already have fish, the only way for your filter to grow the bacteria you need to maintain a very small amount of ammonia for a long period of time. Ammonia levels in the .25-.50 ppm range will allow bacteria to form, but the process will take months at this low of a level. Even at these low levels, the fish are in danger. .50 ppm of ammonia can very well be lethal, but if the fish are strong enough to withstand it they will still most likely be very stressed and susceptible to disease, parasites, and other illness. The overstocking of the aquarium only adds to the stress. At this point it's really a crapshoot if they will survive a month or longer.

You'll need to buy a testing kit (API Freshwater Master Kit is a really good one, especially for ammonia and nitrites) and test the water just about every day to make sure the ammonia does not get above .25-.50 ppm. If it does, you'll need to do a water change. You'll most likely have to do about a 25-50% water change every day as the ammonia will build up fast. 

Here comes another problem, you'll need to find out if the tap water you're using contains either chlorine or chloramine. Chlorine was the most common chemical added to tap water to kill impurities in the water to make it safe for human consumption, but recently many cities have switched to chloramine instead. To rid the water of chlorine (as it's toxic to fish) leave it out in a bucket or another open container for a day or two and it'll evaporate out. If your water contains chloramine (a bond of ammonia and chlorine), however, you'll have to use a water conditioner that converts this into non-dangerous forms of ammonia and chlorine. The problem is that when the water conditioner (water conditioners are highly recommended anyways because they remove metals, instantly take care of chlorine without needing to let the water sit beforehand, and add a stress coat to the fish) that converts the chloramine into ammonia, it actually converts it to ammonium which is non-toxic but the bond only lasts for about 24 hours. After 24 hours the bond breaks and ammonia is released. In an established aquarium this isn't a problem because the biological filter (aka the bacteria in the filter media) takes care of the ammonium before it becomes toxic ammonia. Even though ammonium is non-toxic, it still shows up in ammonia tests, thus it can be difficult to determine just exactly how much toxic ammonia is present in your tank.

A solution to the chloramine problem is to use distilled/RO/bottled water. There is still a problem though because this water has been stripped of many of the important minerals that your fish depend on that is present in tap water.

So is there anything you can do? Well yes..

First, I'd recommend taking all of the fish back except the beta or finding a larger tank (I'd still recommend taking them back so you can properly 'cycle' your tank so it is safe and suitable for fish)
If you can't (or won't) you can do 25%-50% water changes daily with 'safe' tap water (i.e. no chloramine).
Do research about everything you do to the tank as well as anything you add to the tank. You can't be too cautious. I honestly research everything I put into my tank from foods to gravel, plants, fish, chemicals/medicines, etc. It's always good to know what effects your actions have...especially with some a small aquarium.

Also what kind of filter do you have? Some filter brands allow for ammonia-removing media. I don't know how effective these media are but I have one of these mediums in my small filter for my 30G tank just to be safe. A filter should be rated for about 2-3x the actual size of the aquarium (i.e. if the filter say it's designed for a 30 gallon tank, it really should be used for 10-15 gallon tanks) and in your case, with an overstocked aquarium, you'll want to look for 4-5x the amount, provides the current produced by the filter isn't too strong for your fish to handle. If you can buy a new filter I'd strongly recommend buying something along the lines of an Aquaclear 20 that can be fitted with multiple media. Then you'll want to put a sponge, an ammonia-removing medium (I believe Hagen calls their Aquaclear ammonia-removing media amrid) and another sponge, carbon, or biomax. 

There are also chemicals and tablets that remove ammonia but I don't know too much about them. It's generally a bad idea to try to control your water parameters in these ways as they can throw the water chemistry out of whack and often do much more harm and good. In an emergency, they may be useful though.

I should also mention in a 5G your betta could become aggressive towards the smaller fish. Shrimp good be snacks for them, but he also may leave them alone..it's a crapshoot. I hear bettas have unique personalities and in the upcoming weeks and months you'll get to know your little guy and be able to figure out if small fish/shrimp you add are in danger of being eaten.

Best of luck on your tank though, if you have any questions/concerns I know we'll all be glad to help.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> Fish waste,
> Best of luck on your tank though, if you have any questions/concerns I know we'll all be glad to help.


Thank you so much. That information was suprememly helpful! I feel much much more knowledgeable now! Check out my new post (need opinions on my 10 gallon tank) I moved everything (except the betta) into a 10 gallon. I bought a much better filter with a bio wheel in it as well. I'm much better equipped but still not all the way there. 

Ill get there soon! Thanks again, you've really helped alot


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

kestik said:


> Thank you so much. That information was suprememly helpful! I feel much much more knowledgeable now! Check out my new post (need opinions on my 10 gallon tank) I moved everything (except the betta) into a 10 gallon. I bought a much better filter with a bio wheel in it as well. I'm much better equipped but still not all the way there.
> 
> Ill get there soon! Thanks again, you've really helped alot


No problem..also I forgot to provide you with this link that can help determine if your fish are in danger. Note that the absence of these symptoms does not necessarily indicate safe ammonia levels.

Fish Disease - Ammonia Poisoning


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> No problem..also I forgot to provide you with this link that can help determine if your fish are in danger. Note that the absence of these symptoms does not necessarily indicate safe ammonia levels.
> 
> Fish Disease - Ammonia Poisoning


Awesome, this is excellent! I bookmarked that for reference on starting up tanks (a related article on the site) as well as ammonia reference.


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

As mentioned above this is great info. a quick-fix for ammonia levels is Prime made by Seachem this is only a band-aid for the problem daily water changes are best way to go, and getting a Filter rated 4x to 5x greater than your tank... A little about me I worked for Marineland for 15 yrs. as a filtration technician. I run a top-fin 30 and a Penguin 150 filter for my 29 gallon tank. for my River tank ( 125 gallons 0 in-the work I will be running 2 Emperor 400,s 3 Aquaclear 110 powerheads and Fluval FX5 Canister Filter wih a 75 gallon sump. I wish you all the luck keeping fish can be alot of fun, take your time and learn..... HAPPY FISH KEEPING


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> As mentioned above this is great info. a quick-fix for ammonia levels is Prime made by Seachem this is only a band-aid for the problem daily water changes are best way to go, and getting a Filter rated 4x to 5x greater than your tank... A little about me I worked for Marineland for 15 yrs. as a filtration technician. I run a top-fin 30 and a Penguin 150 filter for my 29 gallon tank. for my River tank ( 125 gallons 0 in-the work I will be running 2 Emperor 400,s 3 Aquaclear 110 powerheads and Fluval FX5 Canister Filter wih a 75 gallon sump. I wish you all the luck keeping fish can be alot of fun, take your time and learn..... HAPPY FISH KEEPING


I'm running a penguin 100 for my 10 gallon. (The one with the bio wheel and whatnot) 

Could you give me a quick rundown on what a "Sump" is? I hear it alot and don't know what it is. I'm assuming its a submersible filter? (I'm thinking sump pump here, in a mariner boating sense haha)
EDIT: Nevermind, google and google images work amazing when used for "Sump Aquarium"... *Facepalm*


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

This may sound like over-kill but I am building An Asian river tank that requires high water flow so I am adding a sump I will post pic when this is done, Back to what a sump is:

If you have the space , a sump filter is one of the best filtration you can set up. However, note that sump filtration is only useful in high bioload tanks (ie monster fish, predatory fish, messy eaters etc), otherwise, it is an overkill (Well you can never have too much filteration, but if you don't have a high bioload, you can use another filteration and instead use the space for another fish tank!)

The best advantage of sump filter is that you can increase your tank water volume greatly, depending on the size of your sump. With a large water volume, there is less fluctuations in water parameters and the water is more stable. You can also house a great amount of biological media for bio filteration.

Sump filtration has other advantages, for example you can set up a wet-dry filtration in the part where water enters the sump by filling it up with bioballs. Also, you can change water using the sump or even grow plants in the sump to soak up excess nitrates.Maintainance is also easy since the mechanical filter media (ie filter wool) is in plain sight so you can easily see when it needs to be cleaned or changed and if maintainance is needed you can easily do it without have to turn off the power or meddle with covers/clips/clasps.

Electricity wise, sump systems can hold the most amount of biological media for bio filteration while using the least electricity. In fact, a sump can use the same amount of electricity no matter how much bio media the system houses.

The one important thing to note is that you should be careful of the piping work if you are setting it up yourself or making modifications. If you drill a hole at the bottom of your main tank for the water to drain out to the sump, you should use a long pipe so that water drains out from the top of the tank and not from below. This is so that if the pump is to malfunction you wouldn't have most of your tank water drained out. If you find a pipe unsightly, you can also board the sides of the holes up with acrylic or glass so that glass overflows from the top. You can then fill the inside with bioballs so that the space in used for wet-dry trickling effect.
This also used for marine tank set-ups. As for small tanks I would worry about it.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> This may sound like over-kill but I am building An Asian river tank that requires high water flow so I am adding a sump I will post pic when this is done, Back to what a sump is:
> 
> If you have the space , a sump filter is one of the best filtration you can set up. However, note that sump filtration is only useful in high bioload tanks (ie monster fish, predatory fish, messy eaters etc), otherwise, it is an overkill (Well you can never have too much filteration, but if you don't have a high bioload, you can use another filteration and instead use the space for another fish tank!)
> 
> ...


Sounds like a lot of fun!! Thanks for the info


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