# 55 or 75 Gallon Tank Project.



## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm not "new" to the hobby but have been out of it for about 5 years. The wife and I just bought a house and considering I had to give up all other hobbies, I told her once we're settled in, I'm getting a new fish tank. 

I'm looking at either 55 or 75 gallon tanks now, most likely rectangle. Was planning on dropping in 12+ plants and was wondering if having some real and some fake plants is a bad idea? My old 55 gallon tank had zero plants but was A LOT of up keep. 

As for fish, I was mainly looking at the Cichilds simply because I find them to be very beautiful fish. In a 75 gallon tank, how many do you think would be a safe number and also what else would YOU add to the tank? I do understand that Cichlids are a bit aggressive so I need other fish that will get along with them. 

I'm also interested in knowing about lighting for the tank in terms of what "kv" light would best suit the fish and the plants? To bring out the beauty in the fish but also help the plants to grow. 

As this thread starts, I'll be writing all this down and taking notes. I've already started today by going through the steps for the "fishless" cycle. 

Thanks in advance, Joe Foster


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Go the biggest you can. Cichlids are not the most plant friendly fish. 

Why was your old 55g so much upkeep?


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

My 55 had, at one point, upwards of 25 fish in it. Some were moved from a bad 20 gallon tank I had and I didn't think it was too bad to have that many fish in one tank, considering it seemed like they had enough room. But I was going through filters quite often. Water changes were once a week at 50% where before when there were only about 10-12 fish in there, it was every other week, still at 50%. 

I guess when I think back on it, it wasn't that crazy of an upkeep. Just seemed that was after adding another 10 fish. As for Cichlids not liking plants, what would you recommend putting in there to help with ammonia levels and also give the tank a good balance? Thanks, Joe


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A tank full of cichlids still may require a 50% weekly change, considering they are fairly big waste producers.

IMO, if you need palnts to help with ammonia you have already pushed your bio system too far. That is to say that if you remove the plants and your tank can't handle the ammonia on its own, I think you have too many fish. However, people use plants to do just that...push their bio loads. Nothing wrong with doing it, but it does require you to pay attention to things.

It's not to say that you can't have plants with cichlids but there are ones that may do better than others. Any plant with delicate leaves may become a snack.

Good filtration will be a good idea. I'd go with a canister since they have much more surface area where the bio exchange takes place.


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

If you're looking for low maintenance, you might want to research Walstad-type tanks. I recently set up my 90 gallon as an NPT or Walstad tank for rainbowfish and it's doing well. The soil substrate eliminates the need for fertilizers and the fish supply the CO2. The system utilizes lots of fast-growing plants, which act as a biological filter. About all I do is change 25% of the water every few weeks and trim the plants once in a while. I use a a couple of HOB filters for mechanical filtration and circulation, and outside of a heater, that's about it for equipment. BTW - I'm in complete agreement with Jrman about cichlids in a planted tank. I love 'em, but they're destructive rascals.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

I spent a good portion of my morning looking into the Walstad Method and honestly think im going to give that a try. Sounds right up my allie and I may look at other colorful fish than the cichlids due to the plant eating problem. I also plan on doing a full step-by-step post up of my process. One question though. While reading the Walstad Method she states that any levels above zero for ammonia and nitrite need to be address right away and only states a 25% water change. Is there anything else I should do if this happens? Also what is a good "standard" pH level to get/kep the tank at? Thanks guys. You've been a great help so far.


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

Based on my own (limited) experience, if you start out with a heavily planted tank and a light stocking of fish, you may not see an ammonia spike. I let the planted tank sit for a couple of weeks before I added fish in case the soil leached any ammonia, etc. So far, so good. I've yet to see any measurable ammonia or nitrites and the tank has been running for a couple of months with a few fish. I'm going to add some more rainbows this weekend and see how it goes. I'm trying not to rush it. Ms. Walstad recommends a handful of crushed shell in the substrate if your water parameters require it. As luck would have it, my parameters are ideal for rainbows (PH 7.6, moderately hard) and seem to be holding steady, so I'm happy to leave things as they are.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Most of the time much safer to not try and alter your ph. Most fish can adapt easily if they are acclimated properly. What is your ph out of the tap?

You should get the book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diane Walstad.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks again for the replies. I'm going to stop over at Petsmart tomorrow on break and see if they have the book. If not then barns and noble it is. What do you guys think would be a safe number of plants to start the tank with? I'm also going to pick up a kit to measure the tap water. But I wont have the results till next week. I move into the new house next Thursday.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Can I get some thoughts on the Aquatop CF-400UV canister system? Looking at the reviews on both Wal-Marts website, as well as, Amazon look good and I like the price. Says it moves 370GPH. In a 55 or 75g tank I think that's plenty right?


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Awesome


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not a good way to get a response. Nobody has probably ever heard of that filter. I know I haven't. I wouldn't buy just off of gph. That rate is good, but I would want a canister with large areas for bio-filtration. I haven't looked it up myself. If it has good reviews.....


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

It's a brand that Wal-Mart, of all places, sells. I've also jumped on the net and read some reviews on it, all of which were positive. It's a 4 chamber canister so it offers plenty of areas of filtration. Some reviews say that more bio-balls were needed but other than that it does a great job keeping the tank in check and the water crystal clear. Amazon has them for as little as $100 new, where Wal-Mart has them for $140.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Now that I looked it up, I think I have seen them before. Get one!


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

So the game plan now is: 75g tank, 10 Cichlids with about 10 plants. That canister filter should be MORE than enough to keep that tank clean right? All I need to do now is fine some nice lite colored rock to make places for the fish to swim through and hide out in. Any ideas on what type of rock I can use?


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

You could check out the beasalbob tanks. Its similar to the walstad meathod. He doesnt even us filters. But if u want to stock up fish wise u could just throw on a cheap hang on back filter. Its just emphisizes the use of fast and slow growing plants to get through the amonia & trates.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I've already decided to go with a AquaTop CF-500UV Canister system as well as add 10-12 plants. I'm thinking at this point that in a 75g tank, everything's going to be very well balanced and easily maintained. I've also read that having a nice canister system that filters 350+ GPH, with the addition of having plants will also keep filter changes down. 

All I'd really like to find out about now are rocks for the tank to make some path ways for the fish as well as what lighting would make the colors of the Cichlids really "pop" but also will allow the plants to grow healthy. Any suggestions?


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

What I see a lot of people use r clay pots. They break them in half anbreak the bottom off an stack them. Plus the clay helps with plants cause of the natural iron in them.


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

I use a 48" 4X54W T5 HO on my 90, and it does a nice job all around. Just out of curiosity: what kind of cichlids are you planning on getting? The cichlid family includes everything from discus to mbuna; some will do fine in a planted tank, and some will tear it up in an hour.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

All African Cichlids I believe all are from Lake Malawi


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

Joey, you might want to backtrack a bit and do a little research before you jump into setting up your tank. There are reasons why you don't see many planted tanks with African cichlids. One reason is that the water parameters Africans require (hard alkaline water) make it difficult for most plants to survive. Lake Malawi is mostly rocks and sand. Another reason is that Africans will either eat or tear up your plants. If you're looking for low maintenance, Africans might not be up your alley - they're usually kept in crowded conditions to keep aggression somewhat under control, which necessitates a lot of water changes and closely monitored water chemistry. I keep kicking around the idea of setting up a Malawi tank, but I'm not sure I want to commit to the work involved. They're sure beautiful and interesting fish though.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

I have the time for the maintenance, I'm off Mondays and Tuesdays and have the house to myself and a very small "honey-do" list. I just thought I could get away with some plants that's all. Didn't know they would tear them up like that. So if plants are a no go then it's fine to have a crushed coral/aragonite mixture in the tank to keep pH up? I just came from the LFS and they said they use that combo for some of there display tanks. 

So a high gph canister will suit the tank just fine? Nothing else besides a heater really needed? 

One of the reasons behind the plant idea was so the fish waste was broken down and used for something useful rather than me having to vacuum the tank once a week to keep the ammonia down.


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm far from an expert on Africans or canister filters, but it seems like you're on the right track. Sounds like your LFS might be a good source of info on the subject. I've gotta admit, I'm tempted to set up a Malawi tank in my office. I was thinking about a marine tank, but IMHO, cichlids are just as pretty and interesting, not to mention cheaper and less of a hassle than salt water. Don't forget to post some pictures when you get your tank going.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

For the past 2 days I've been on the fence of either SW or FW tanks. If I got fresh water I'm getting a 75g. But when I was considering a salt water tank I was going to keep it around 30/40g and have a 20g sump system. But the cost is WAY out of my price range right now. Even if I starting saving and buying as needed. It would take me a good 6 months before I could get the tank cycling. Live rock and sand is NOT cheap. LOL 

So I think I'm going to stick with my Cichlid buddies as they do have some beautiful color to them. I've also read that as long as they have a healthy environment, they'll keep there vibrant colors as they get bigger. 

I'm move into my new house in 2 days and I'm eager to see where I can put a 75G tank without making it look tacky. I'll also mention that my 2 car garage has been turned into a bar/entertainment room so I may also put a 20/30long tank in there as well. 

Would there be any benefit to getting a single powerhead for the tank to help keep good water flow?


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## Peterjay (Feb 15, 2011)

(LOL) I don't know about the powerhead, but if I had a converted garage with a concrete floor, I'd get the biggest tank I could find on Craigslist, even if I had to rent a forklift to get it in there. One can dream I suppose.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Imagine if I did that. Although amazing a beautiful, the wife would have me make that space my new home for months. LOL Check this out I just found this article and I've been reading and taking notes. Might really consider making a 20G Long Nano-reef for the wood table that's already built in the bar. 

Setting Up A Nano Reef - Nano Reef Articles - Nano-Reef.com

Sounds promising and cost should be rather cheap. No sump, no protein skimmer, just simple water changes and water tests. LMK what you think. Thanks, Joe


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Well after reading that bit about "Setting up your Nano-Reef" I went BACK to the LFS and talked to the guys there about it. They both have SW tanks set up with fish, live rock and coral. One guys has a 30G tank running on a Fluval 205 Canister filter with two power heads and he said it's been like that for about 3 years now and has never had an issue. He went on to tell me that as long as I clean the filter 1/2 times a MONTH and do my weekly water changes that the tank will be just fine. So I placed an order for a 40G long tank. 36x18x16 LOL It'll be in next week. In the mean time I'm going to look for lighting, probably go with some T5HO's. I guess it's time to move over to the SW section and talk with those guys. Thanks a bunch for everyone that has chimed in on this discussion. Joe


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