# Okay, the scratching is definitely a parasite of some kind.



## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I have no heater however my 25 Watt incandescent light bulbs have raised temperatures to 82 and now entering 83. Mainly because in an attempt to raise temperatures to slow down the progress of Ich, I've kept the light on all night for the past couple of nights. On Tuesday, I will buy a heater. But for now, is 82 enough to slow down the progress of Ich until I can get that heater? Thanks a bunch.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

Temps over 85(86) are what is recommended to kill or effect the cycle of ich.Not having a heater may have brought the ich on as changing temps(day with light,night without) is a major cause of stress .
Here's a good link to explain how ich works,it is important to know the enemy.
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
Best thing is meds(kordon rid ich plus/quick cure) with malechalite green and formulin.
Ich is easily cured with meds ,but will kill your fish no problem if not killed.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

What type of fish are you treating? Sadly you will need higher to kill the ick and maybe even slow it down. But depending on the fish salt will help ( it is not recommended to use on bettas, its very hard on them) but waterchanges will help as well.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

I'm treating a Dalmatian Balloon Molly. The temperature is now passing 83 entering 84.

So, basically the best thing to do right now is to maintain my day/night cycle with the lights and keep doing water changes?

I have been doing daily 10% water changes recently.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

If I'm reading correctly, coralbandit suggested you use a medication to kill ich. Sounds to me like maintaining your current plan of action may result in a lost Molly.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

I don't have the money to get the medicine yet though, I get $31 dollars on Tuesdays. I've been trying to treat it as a precaution. I don't know for sure if Lady has Ich yet. The only signs I have to work with are the Gasping at the surface and her scratching herself on the decor in the tank. I am only worried about Ich because I read somewhere that if she's scratching herself, it's commonly a sign of Ich. For all I know, I could have a totally different disease issue.

I don't see any white dots yet. I've been watching her very closely trying to see if there are any white "sand grains" on her black spots. It will be hard though because she's a Dalmatian which means she has lot's of white on her. But I won't stop watching her until I'm sure what it is and resolve it.

I saw another thing, which was her floating head facing up, treading in place, but I dismissed that as a symptom of anything because she only does that when Lemon goes near her. So Lemon is unfortunately aggressive. I need to get a bigger tank to try and ease the aggression.

But then again, I don't know what to really do. There's a disease issue that I'm worried MIGHT be Ich, but then I have an aggression problem from Lemon. I don't know which to fight first. That's why I came here, to get as much information as I can.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

Shine a flashlight on the fish and look for gold dusting. 

Gaping is a sign of lack of oxygen. What is the tank specs? IE size, stocking, waterchange schedule, temp, filter, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

The tank is a 10 gallon.

There are about 6 to 8 wild (or Feeder kept as pets) guppies, 4 molly and/or platy fry, Lemon(Fancy Guppy), Lady(Dalmatian Balloon Molly), 2 mystery snails, 1 ramshorn snail(I have assassin snails for when they get out of control), 1 Nerite Snail, I'm working on getting rid of my bladder snails, and I have 3 ghost shrimp. 

Typical water change schedule is 30% water change weekly, but now it is 10% daily to help Lady get over the Shimmies.

Temps stay above 76 now that I have a light fixture.

As for my A.N.N levels, last time I checked, my ammonia was building up and my Nitrates were at about 20 parts per million. I am fighting to keep those levels down with the water change. I guess because I added Lady and Lemon in the same day, it's putting a strain on the bacteria in my filter.

I know my tank is violently overstocked but that's why I've been trying to get a 20 gallon tank from the store. A 20 gallon at walmart runs for 49 dollars which isn't too bad. And it comes with LED lights.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

I say that is your main issue, overstocking. Not only will it affect your readings and water quality but cramped living conditions will stress out fish. Do the flashlight test, change at least 20% daily to keep things in order and work on getting that larger tank. When you upgrade, I suggest not adding anyone else for awhile.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

Will they be alright? I only get 31 dollars a week, so it will be at least 2 weeks before I can get them that tank, and then a few weeks more to cycle it.

And, I never said it, but I did the Flashlight test and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, just a bright flash of light reflecting off of all of their scales.

And maybe the vertical thing is a symptom of something. I just saw her do that when Lemon nor any other fish was no where near her. She does it in defense AND when no one was there.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

I just realized something, I'm currently cycling another 10 gallon tank. Maybe for now, I can place my Nerite and Mystery snails in there to produce ammonia from the waste. That way the Bacteria colony can grow faster. Then I can place all but two wild guppies in that tank. Sounds like a good idea, but is it? Can I do this until I get my 20 gallon tank? After all, based on observation, so far the Mystery snails are contributing to an estimate of about 35% of the waste. That's a lot for a single species.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

You have a HOB filter right? How many cartridges do you have in it? If you have more than one, you might be able to transfer it to the second tank to seed it and jump start the process since the second cartridge would already have a bunch of bacteria on it. You would want to replace the moved cartridge with a new one, I dont think you would want to drop down to a single cartridge, as i think that would decrease your tanks current ability to process waste. If you only have one cartridge as of right now, maybe throw a second one in so it can grab some bacteria from the first one then move it?


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

More and more of my fish are exhibiting the whole twist-and-turn behavior. I still don't see the salt look on anybody yet. The gasping at the surface has finally stopped now that I put an air stone in there to oxidize the water. So, all I see is the scratching thing. Can you tell me what I'm dealing with? Thanks a bunch.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

No spots on their fins or tails? I would get some quick cure now and treat the tank. It is good for ich and a number of other external parasites. Spending too much time to diagnose usually just means dead fish.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I get my money on Tuesday. Do you think they'll be okay until then? It's about 3 days.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Tough to say. I would be doing 30-40% water changes everyday until you could medicate.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I'll do anything for the health of my fish.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Will this help with my Parasite problem?*

I had a total of 13 fish in my 10 gallon. I took out eight and put them in two 1 gallon containers based on species. I put the 5 guppy fry in a bucket and the 3 molly and/or platy fry in a 1 gallon tank. On Tuesday, along with the Ich medication, I will place those fish in a 5 gallon until the 10 gallon tank is completely cycled. Now, I have a total of 5 fish left in the tank. 4 are guppies (1 fancy and 3 wild) and a Balloon Molly. So, I have 5 fish, 3 shrimp, a Nerite snail and a Ramshorn snail and some bladder snails I'm trying to control. I removed my mysteries and placed them in the cycling tank to help it cycle faster. I went from probably about 60 or 70 bladder snails to under 30. Is this going to help me with my Ich problem until I get my money?

And also, can you recommend a medication that treats all parasites for tropical freshwater fish? Thanks a bunch.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Will this help with my Parasite problem?*

Seperating them may help ,but keep up on daily waterchanges for ALL!
I would pull all the snails you want out of the tank to be treated as they may not do to well with meds.Kordon rid ich plus or API quick cure are the meds you want to have most of the time.No single med will work for everything,but the malechalite green and formulin will work for many.Don't get any of the herbal meds and stay away from any of the" fixes"(mela fix/prima fix).Real meds NOT herbal.Then do a 50% water change before meds and follow directions of product.No harm in doing waterchanges during treatment just re dose meds for the amount of water changed(this is the best way).
DON"T add fish to the tank with snails as they don't get ich,but can carry it and therefore if you add fish with them could get it in that tank.The ich can be carried by snails,but will not live off the snails so 2 weeks of snails only and the ich should have died(it has to have fish to live).
Good luck!


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Will this help with my Parasite problem?*

So, I'll put as many snails in the cycling tank as I can, not only to kill the Ich parasite, but to help with cycling. There are absolutely NO fish in there... yet. But what do I do with my shrimp? Will they be okay with the Ich treatment? Or should I move them too? Moving them will be much easier since I only have 3. They're Ghost Shrimp.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Will this help with my Parasite problem?*

Move the shrimp too!I am glad you asked as I meant to say that also.They to can carry the ich but the ich can not live on them.
NO FISH with the snails or shrimp for 2 weeks at least.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Is 82-83 degrees enough to kill Ich?*

I have an Aqua Tech power filter for 5-15 gallons. Here's a picture of the package:


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Last resort to battling Ich?*

Hi. I went to buy an adjustable heater but the pet store want's a friggen fortune for one. All of them do. And those heaters aren't even adjustable. So the adjustable ones probably cost WAY more than I will ever afford in a billion years. So, I can't get a heater. Another problem I have is that I have an Activated Carbon based filter and my LFS doesn't carry any meds for Ich. So, medication is out of the picture. Another problem is since I bought a tank for my Fancy Guppy and food for my bearded dragon, I cannot afford Aquarium Salt. I am on the verge of completely losing any evidence that I even had any fish because 31 DOLLARS IS NOT ENOUGH TO RAISE AN AQUARIUM(for those with a similar budget). So, I'm kind of stuck here. Do I have ANY options at all? Thanks a bunch.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Last resort to battling Ich?*

Isn't there anything like medicated food? Maybe something that the average house usually has?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

*Re: Last resort to battling Ich?*

This is your 4th ich thread. I'm going to combine them all. In the future could your please re-use the threads if they are still fairly current and more importantly your issue is still current? Helps keep confusion down for those trying to lend you help.

Thanks.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Re: Last resort to battling Ich?*

Sorry about that. I just lost two Betta Fish from Columnaris and I don't want to lose my remaining fish to Ich and I'm a bit stressed as a result. So, I apologize. It won't happen again.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I got good news!
I'm NOT dealing with Ich. *w3 I have researched and researched in high desperate hopes that it's something else due to a shortage in funds... sort of. God answered my prayers. It turns out that Stage 1 of Ich is the white spots. The itching and scratching follows in Stage 2.
So, either Ich is progressing completely out of order or I can happily rule out Ich. I don't see any signs of Gill Flukes either, so tomorrow I'm going to my LFS and test for metals and other things that may cause irritation in fish. I can finally relax... perhaps. It depends on what the water tests say.

Wish me luck!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ich has different stages, that is correct. It attaches to the fish and then shortly after falls off, and then not so long after looks to attach itself again as it multiplies. Because it has reached one point or the other does not mean the cycle is going to stop. You need to interrupt the cycle. Once the protozoa have detached from the fish and are free-floating in the water again they can be killed. If they are attached to the fish (looks like the fish has been sprinkled with sugar - usually seen easier on tail and fins) they cannot be killed. The ich cycle is about 4 days. This is why you have to treat at least one cycle period beyond the last time you saw a sign of it.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

Yeah, I got my hopes up only to be disappointed. But I made my mind up now. It HAS been Ich all along. I know I said this a million times already, but I'm now 100% sure without a shadow of a doubt. I saw an elevated white spot on Lady's left fin. There may be others but she is mainly white with black spots so it will be hard to find any others. I would've panicked when I saw it but I got so happy when I saw that dot because I had already bought aquarium salt that same day. Yesterday, I went to buy an adjustable heater (which was only 24 dollars, and goes up to 85F  so it's next, even though it's 30-60 gallons) but I didn't have the money for it. So, I bought Ich Meds instead. I bought the Tetra Lifeguard, All-In-One tablets. I already treated twice so far and I removed my shrimp and put them in with Lemon. Will this medication really kill my bacteria colony? I've heard it will do that, confirmation? Can you give me a tip on how to minimize the damage? Thanks a bunch.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

Lady's still flashing (Although I haven't noticed excess flashing on the other fish recently). The treatment said treat for 5 days and I'm on my fifth day. Do fish still flash after treatment due the remaining bite wounds from the parasite? Or is the treatment not working?

There's a regular heater that costs $20 and the adjustable one costs $25. I don't want to spend an extra 5 dollars on an adjustable heater on Tuesday or Wednesday but I will if I have to.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Do a second dose of meds if you have them.Make large water change (50%) and remedicate tank.The cycle of ich is tricky enough that strong or slow "ichs" could out live the first 5 day treatment and you need to keep the meds up to get them.
Somewhere in the directions it has to say;"In persistent cases.....".
A heater you can not adjust is a waste of money,and will prove so quickly.If you can order on line the check Kensfish.Very good prices,often 1/2 of what the LFS charge!
Kens Fish - Home of quality tropical fish food and supplies


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You are supposed to treat ich at least one full ich cycle (about 4 days) beyond the last time you see anything on your fish or the flashing. I know the med says 5 days, but you do need to reset it with a water change and keep going. If you don't you potentially build a resistive strain in your tank.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

So, water changes during treatment is necessary? Alright, I'll try it with those. I only changed once during treatment. Evidently that's not enough.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You can change water every day during treatment AS LONG AS YOU REPLACE THE %OF MEDS REMEOVED.Just changing water and not redosing meds will not work out probly.But fresh water and meds are definatley a good thing.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can change water as often as you like. Most meds have you change 25% in between doses, others maybe not. If the treatment period only calls for 5 days and that still isn't enough, you need to do a water change to reset the water and start over.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

*Treatment Is Working *

It's not over yet, but I haven't noticed my fish flashing nearly as much as they were before treatment. YEYAH!!!

Now I get to watch as those Ich Monsters DIE!!!*r2:really funny::hahaha:

You can tell I really hate Ich. Hehe!


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

Okay, I just noticed a fish flash. But then again, I JUST added dechlorinated water and 1 half a tsp of aquarium salt. Could that flashing be the result of the new water?

I read somewhere that after a water change or the addition of new water, fish will flash for a little bit but then after getting used to the new water, will flash less. Is this true?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I wouldn't normally think flashing occurs because of new water.Are you still treating?Are you using meds or just salt and how is tank tempature?Sometimes fish just itch,but I would keep up with whatever treatment you are doing.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I'm treating with my so-called "round 2" which is dosing by the water change. Every time I change water (which is daily for the treatment) I redose. "Round 3" will be dosing with water changes, with an adjustable heater and I won't stop dosing until I'm sure the Ich is dead. Which may be 3 to 7 days after I see no symptoms. Since before I was dosing, I have been using aquarium salt. Every time I do a partial water change, I replace the salt.

Now I am seeing Lady gasp at the surface. I do water changes, and I have an air stone in there which is hooked up to the air pump powering the filter, so oxygen SHOULD be fine. On Tuesday, when I go to CVS Pharmacy, I'll stop at the LFS to have my water checked and see if it's poor water quality. I won't doubt that since the meds I use have been reported to kill the bio-filter. If it is poor water quality, I'll do 50% changes daily instead of 25% until I get my bacteria colony back.

One more thing, I've noticed that whenever my fish are dropping feces it's kind of "jelly-like" and see-through. It's a white-ish silver color. Is this the result of the medication? I also noticed that they are eating the snail egg sacs that my bladder snails keep laying. Could THAT be the culprit? I really hope it's not another parasite. I'm all parasited out.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just make sure in adding back in salt you only add enough for the water you replace. Ex. remove 20g, replace with enough salt for 20g and that is it.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I've been treating this parasite for a total of 3 weeks now, a tad bit longer with the aquarium salt. I haven't seen any signs of Ich anymore. Some of my fish fry appear to have a reddish color on their gills but I saw other pictures of these guys and it looks normal. If anything, it's the organ that the gills hook up to.

I'm all out of the Ich Meds, but I still have loads of Aquarium salt. Should I keep using the salt for a few more days while I continue to search for Ich Symptoms?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It would seem likely after three weeks that is something else or the meds you chose were not effective.If you are going to purchase any more meds make sure they contain; malechalite green and formulin(rid ich plus or quick cure).Those would be the only meds I would have chosen to begin with.The salt will do nothing at this point it would not have done already.Ich can be completely killed in around 10 days ,so you either have something els or the fizz tabs are crap!
ich is known to hide in the gills of fish where it can linger indefinately if it is not killed.
You need to read this link!
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I think you misunderstood,
I said I HAVEN'T seen any symptoms recently, but still wondering if I should continue treating with the salt until I'm sure that there are no
Ich critters swimming around. Sorry.*rotating smile

Basically, I believe the treatment worked, but just want to be on the safe side.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Stop using the salt make sure you do good water changes regulary and see what happens.If the meds were capable of killing the ich then it should be gone by now.
It can hide unseen in the gills though.But no telling till the fish get fresh water and time.It would seem they should be ok if they have survived this long as ich left unchecked can kill quickly.
Hope everything turns out well for you and your fish.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

Sweet. I'll start the "Freshification" tomorrow.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I am back to say I lost the battle with Ich. Lady is dead. I am so angry right now. I put Lemon back in the community tank since his target is gone. I would like to say you were right. The pills were complete crap causing more harm than good. Tomorrow, I'm going to buy that adjustable heater again and hope it works this time and I am going to commit mass Genocide against an entire race of Ich, and WHEN I'M DONE, THEY WILL BE PLAYING THE HARP STRINGS IN HEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I REALLY HATE THAT PARASITE!!!! And NOW I may be dealing with Clamped fins! IT'S ONE DISEASE AFTER ANOTHER!!!!!! What more do they want? I keep their water clean! I keep their temperature up! I have a filter for them! I have an air stone for them! I fought the snail population! I gave them hiding spaces! I feed them every day to every other day! There's only 9 fish in the tank. Three of them are Mickey Mouse platies I got accidentally from my local fish store. And the rest of them are guppies!

**deep breath**

I'm sorry for taking this out on you. It seems like me and the aquarium hobby got out on the wrong foot. This is the most frustrating part of the hobby. Is there any way I can minimize the amount of diseases my fish catch?

I've been caring for them extra hard recently to keep up with the diseases, and I've been failing up a storm. The only thing I successfully cured were the Live bearer Shimmies and that's a symptom, not a disease.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry to hear things didn't work out.Get the adjustable heater as you plan and when you can get Kordon rid ich plus or quick cure(not the herbal crap).They both have the same active ingredients that WILL WORK against ich.Get the salt out of your tank,and just keep temp in normal range if you use these meds as they are all that is needed.The clamped fins could just be a secondary infection to the ich.Don't do any treatment specifically for it,just kill the ich.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

GOOD NEWS!!! The water heater is on it's way and will be delivered today. When it comes, the Ich parasite will be DEAD! AND LADY WILL BE AVENGED!!!

DEATH TO ICH!!!


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

In many fishes (eg 300 Tiger Barbs), sometimes the 7-pool method has helped. If it is detected early and the fish are still strong.
Every day, all put in a new pool, all around.


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

I got my heater a second ago. The only problem is the degrees is expressed in Celsius, no Fahrenheit. At least it's not shorting like the one I bought from Walmart. Can you tell me how many degrees Celsius is okay to kill the Ich?

Don't worry, the fish I haven't identified I just did. They are Mickey Mouse Platies. So all of the fish in there are Tropical.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This chart should help.You just need to scroll to larger values to get into the 80'sF
Fahrenheit to Celsius table


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## IanHulett (Oct 6, 2013)

Okay. How's 30 degrees sound? Is that too high? Or should I go higher? The heater goes up to 35. Their all Guppies and Platies. And I do have a giant mystery snail. All my shrimp are gone... poor guys.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ya 30 c(86 f) should work to speed up the life cycle of ich and kill it.Just work your fish up to it slowly so you watch them and make sure they can handle it.waterchanges are more important with higher temps,as the higher temp reduces oxygen and raise nutrients.


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

I understand that you are very depressed. 
Fish diseases are an ungrateful subject. Because it can ruin the hobby joy. We have all experienced. 
The prevention of fish diseases are a better subject. 
One can deal with the details and is not under time pressure. 
There are many causes. The most common two are: The fish suffer under their conditions. 
Each fish has on his body a number of latent germs of various fish diseases. They are usually in the mucosa and disabled of immune substances. As long as the fish feels comfortable, they are always created anew. 
So, help avoid good conditions. 
Furthermore, may be introduced or fish ponds en masse germs. Even this can be avoided if the food one day projects. 
It is important to observe the fish always accurate, so you noticed early on when something will develop. 

We must lose no time! The disease is stronger and the weaker fish.

Many remedies are sold, but the road to success is narrow. Any medication that is to kill other organisms, also weighed the fish. Assuming not immediately the right, you lose time and further damage to the fish. 
One must also immediately treat at the correct temperature. But depends on the kind 
Then the correct concentration must also be applied immediately. 
If it is too strong, harm to the fish. Too weak is even worse. You kill the many weaker parasites, and lets the strong left. The multiply rapidly in pure culture. 
You can see that it is very difficult. But there are also success. It must immediately everything to be done properly.

Therefore, in avoiding.


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