# Converting 55g Freshwater System to FOWLR Saltwater



## gpd605x

*55g SW, Corals Coming Soon!*

I'm currently in the process of converting my 55 gallon Freshwater setup to FOWLR Saltwater. I wanted to do this but I always thought the cost was ridiculous. Turns out, the start up was only about $55 without the Live Rock which I heard was the most expensive part about SW. This was actually my wife's idea (believe it or not) while we were at the LFS. She talked to the owner/employee and asked specifically what was needed to start the conversion. I was told once I get the salt/water mixed up and the crushed coral washed and cleaned that I should run the system for about 2-3 days, bring them a water sample and then they will tell me if I'm ready to get fish. 
This is what I was told...
*Substrate (Crushed Coral)*








*Salt mixture *








*Hydrometer *








and lastely *Live Rock*
Below is what I already have...
*200W Heater *








*Here's my lighting*
















*It has 8 or 9 of these LED's (I think they are Moon lights) but only 1 of them is working. I need to figure out how to fix that issue*








*Marineland Powerhead (Unknown model or gph)*









Here's the tank w/ the Substrate, filter, heater and powerhead set up ready for water/salt mixture








Here's the tank w/ the salt/water mixture. My hydrometer says I'm right at the green level.








Now, this is only a few hours after mixing the salt and water together so its obviously a little cloudy. I'm looking into adding another filter to help out and also working on building a DIY HOB Overflow and using my 10 gallon for a sump.


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## Reefing Madness

Your LFS is full of CRAP! Those mechanical filters are going to cause you a headache. Your not going to be ready for fish for 6 weeks, at least. Your tank has to go through a Nitrogen cycle, just like a Fresh Water tank does. You have no Skimmer, and not enough water flow. Your going to be very disappointed.
These are the things you are going to need to have a succesful Salt Water Tank.
#1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.

#2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.

#3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.

#4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume

#5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.

#6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.

#7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one

#8-Rubber kitchen gloves

#9-Fish net

#10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets

#11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.

#12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.

#13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.

#14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.

#15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank

#16-Heater rated for your size tank.

#17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.

#18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.

#19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)

#20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


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## coralbandit

what madness said. Don't rush. Please read about various cycling techniques so they(lfs) can't lie to you.Go slow and enjoy.


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## Unearthed

You really need to get an RO/DI filter, Refractometer, and a SW test kit at the VERY least. If you aren't mixing proper saltwater everything else is pointless really. My cheapo hydrometer was showing 1.023 and when I purchased a refractometer it was 1.025. I am in the process of starting my first saltwater tank and the cost has been mindblowing honestly. And that is with buying an all in one nano-cube.


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## gpd605x

I plan on upgrading all of the equipment but they told me that its enough to get started... I have a SW test kit and tested out and everything checked out fine except the pH level which was about 8.4+-. They said I didn't need a protein skimmer and I didn't need a ro/di unit. I told them that I read that I shouldn't use my tap water to fill my tank and they said just to run my hose for about 5 or so minutes before filling the tank and then it would be ok. I've been doing a lot of reading and online research about filters and skimmers and sumps and overflow boxes and I want to do the diy hob pvc overflow and use my 10 gallon as filtration and what not. As for the hydrometer, I have been looking online st a better one that is much easier to read. I do have my heater on but it doesn't seem to be working correctly. The temp of the tank is about 76° F and I have my heater set to about 80° F. I am definitely waiting and making sure to cycle the tank properly because I don't want to just blow money away. As for a quarantine tank, I do have a little 5ish gallon tank, would that be ok to use? I plan on only getting 1 fish at a time but I'm thinking it might just be to small. As for power heads, I do plan on getting another one because I don't want any "dead spots" in the tank. I'm printing out that list that reefing madness gave out and bringing it to my lfs and to show them that I've done my research and its telling me that I have insufficient equipment and I need more than what they are telling me.


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## Reefing Madness

There is a big difference between your LFS and myself. I'm not here to sell you anything. I'm not being paid to type all this out for you. They have something to gain.


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## gpd605x

Ok Thanks everyone. Like I said, I'm bringing this list to the LFS so I can get the record straight. Thanks again


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## Reefing Madness

gpd605x said:


> Ok Thanks everyone. Like I said, I'm bringing this list to the LFS so I can get the record straight. Thanks again


*rotating smile


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## coralbandit

Unearthed said:


> You really need to get an RO/DI filter, Refractometer, and a SW test kit at the VERY least. If you aren't mixing proper saltwater everything else is pointless really. My cheapo hydrometer was showing 1.023 and when I purchased a refractometer it was 1.025. I am in the process of starting my first saltwater tank and the cost has been mindblowing honestly. And that is with buying an all in one nano-cube.


every hydrometer I had read differently(no bubbles or BLAH BLAH BLAH)there are alot of test for salt. If your salt isn't right? Or more importantly to those who change water ;What do you test most frequently. If your salt is not right ,goodluck.Went digital after 2 months. Funniest part is my 23 year hydro was more accurate than all 3 different new ones I tried.


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## gpd605x

Now, since I'm not getting live rock for a bit, Could I use a DIY Moving Bed Filter? Like adding a bunch of cut up bendy straws into a bottle and have an air line moving it with a sponge at the bottom? Here's the video I'm talking about...
How To: Simple Aquarium Filter
Here's my version of it...I need to add more straws and get a better more pourous sponge but the idea is working. I read that the sponge is the "Mechanical Filtration" and the Straws (or whatever is inside the bottle) is the "Biological Filtration".


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## Reefing Madness

I foresee some mishaps going on here.


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## coralbandit

I need to learn how to be politically(more over socially) correct. What madness said.


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## gpd605x

Do I just need to take it out? I don't care of your politically correct I just need some assistance. There are about a billion different techniques and crap so I don't know which to go for


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## Reefing Madness

Ok, if we absolutey can't put Base Rock or any other Rock in there right off the bat, your better off using a mechanical filter to build up bacteria for you. when you rinse out the filter pads you'll need to rinse them in tank water, so you don't kill the needed bacteria in them.


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## mkstangbanger

Good luck! I have wanted to go salt water but never been brave enough to try it. Maybe one day. You can do it!:fish-in-a-bag:


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## coralbandit

the filter on your tank in picture really is probably better(the hob). Factory filters work You still have to cycle DIY filters .


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## Reefing Madness

That thing is going to take forever to cycle, and the salt creep from the bubbles at the top is going to drive you insane.


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## gpd605x

Thanks! That's what I needed to know. I took out the DIY Filter and I'm just going to let the tank run and run. I do have a saltwater test kit and I tested it and everything was fine except the pH which was about 8.4 and according to the test chart, its at an unsafe level pH wise. The kit I have is a 5-1 Test Kit. Test Nitrate, Nitrite, Hardness, Alkalinity and pH. I also have a kit for Ammonia as well. From what ya'll have said, I need to get a test kit for Calcium, Phosphates and Magnesium correct?


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## Reefing Madness

Yup, you should test for all those if you plan on keeping corals.
PH of 8.4 is not bad. Mine usually runs 8.2. Your right at the top of the scale though, you don't want it higher than that.


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## gpd605x

An update... I've slowly been adding LR (stuff ain't cheap).
First I added only about 6lbs.








Then added 10lbs








I noticed the tank turning orange so I did some research, turned out to be Diatom bloom. Talked to my LFS and thru reading they said its not harmful that you can add a cleanup crew and it will clear up. So I did and they were right, it all is about cleared up. The snails and hermit crabs are doing good. 

After adding the 5 turbo snails and 2 hermit crabs:

















So far I've got 16lbs in there and added 5 tubro snails and 2 hermit crabs. After about 2 weeks, 4 of the snails died and the hermit crabs are doing fine. 

Went to the fish store yesterday and had the water tested for fish and they said everything was great and I was ready for some fish! I wanted to get some Clowns but instead I went with some cheaper ones that were good "Starter Fish". I walked out with 2 Yellowtail Damselfish and 2 Blue/Green Chromis, 4 more turbo snails and 3 more hermit crabs. They told me how to properly acclimate the fish and at first, the chromis hid under rocks for several hours. I woke up this morning and turned the light on and about 30 mins later, they are running all over the place. 








Here's one chromis hiding...









I plan on giving these guys about 2 weeks to see how they do then I'll add more damsels and chromis. The damsels are really pretty when they are in the light and that bright blue pops!

It looks like I added this all at once but I didn't. After adding the LR, I waited about a month to add the turbo snails and hermit crabs. Then waited another Month to add the fish so it's a patient process and at the end, the wait will be worth it.


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## coralbandit

The wait will be worth it! keep up good work and patients.Test regularly now that you added fish as they are the largest producers of waste you have placed in tank so far.LOOKS GOOD!


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

Thanks! I'm so excited! I was like a fat kid in a candy store when they told me I was fish ready lol. I had the biggest grin on my face


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## gpd605x

Here's what the tank looks like today... Just need some more rock and "landscaping" lol


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

Update... Had one damsel die. I woke up to feed them and couldn't find one of the damsels. I looked, it was stuck to the powerhead. I turned it off and it twitched away and then slowly died. This one was weird anyway, it always stayed under the rocks and never really came out too much. Not sure what happened, but all the levels in the water are fine. Good thing they were only $3.99.


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## JohnniGade

Reefing Madness said:


> Your LFS is full of CRAP! Those mechanical filters are going to cause you a headache. Your not going to be ready for fish for 6 weeks, at least. Your tank has to go through a Nitrogen cycle, just like a Fresh Water tank does. You have no Skimmer, and not enough water flow. Your going to be very disappointed.
> These are the things you are going to need to have a succesful Salt Water Tank.
> #1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.
> 
> #2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.
> 
> #3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.
> 
> #4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume
> 
> #5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.
> 
> #6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.
> 
> #7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one
> 
> #8-Rubber kitchen gloves
> 
> #9-Fish net
> 
> #10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets
> 
> #11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.
> 
> #12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.
> 
> #13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.
> 
> #14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.
> 
> #15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank
> 
> #16-Heater rated for your size tank.
> 
> #17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.
> 
> #18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.
> 
> #19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)
> 
> #20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


great post


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## Mikeyp1055

JohnniGade said:


> great post


 Definitely a must see post if you are thinking about starting a tank:animated_fish_swimm


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## gpd605x

Agree! ReefingMadness def knows his stuff.


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## gpd605x

Small update... The other Yellow-tail Damsel died this morning. It too was hanging around the rocks and never even came out when even when I put the food in. The chromis' are doing fine and haven't given me any problems. Tested the water for everything, it all looks to be fine. Any suggestions? Maybe my water is too hot? Its reading about 81-82 Degrees


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## Reefing Madness

Numbers look good to me. Your tank is a bit warm, but nothing they can't.handle. Didn't read back through the thread to find out if we warned you about Damsels and Chromis. You will end up with only one. Just the nature of the beast.


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## gpd605x

Yea, I remember reading it. I kinda figured only one would make it but the other died as well. The chromis' have been fine and are eating and everything. I want to move forward to get 2 clowns but I don't want them to die as well so I'm just double and triple checking everything.


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## Reefing Madness

The Clowns will be ok, believe it or not they are a lil meaner than those Chromis. But you will still end up with only one Chromis.


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## gpd605x

Aight, thanks again for your wisdom lol I'm going to bring the water to my LFS so they can double check the parameters just to make sure. Then hopefully I'll come home w/ 2 clowns! 

Question... Would it be more beneficial to get more LR than to get 2 Clowns? My LFS sells the clowns for about $15 each. Just curious if I should spend the $30 on LR or the Clowns.


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## Reefing Madness

I don't remember how much you have in there right now. ?? Adding alittle bit at a time to get you to 55lbs is a good thing, little bit at a time.


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## gpd605x

Right now I have about 16lbs


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## Reefing Madness

gpd605x said:


> Right now I have about 16lbs












I'd get some Rock.


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## gpd605x

Thanks! That's what I was thinking


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## gpd605x

Well, my wife surprised me Friday and brought home 2 clown fish. One was a little bigger than the other but overall I was excited. I told her that I wanted to get rock instead but she really wanted the clowns too so she went ahead and got them.

















Here's the smaller one:








Not even after 12hrs after being acclimated and in the tank, the smaller one has died. I kept looking at him about 6hrs after entered into the tank and he was staying in a corner and not really roaming around. I know that they sometimes do that because they are in a new environment and once they get comfortable they will start to roam. The larger Clown did that immediately which brought my suspicion to the smaller one. Around 7-8hrs in the tank I noticed that he kept "falling" on his side then getting back up then slowly doing it again. So I did some reading and saw that sometimes they sleep on their side so I figured that was it. I went to bed and turned off the lights. After about an hour with the lights off I went to check on him again and couldn't find him so I figured he went into some rock to "sleep". Woke up this morning and he was in a corner and the crabs were feeding on him. Checked my water parameters again and they all are reading like they are supposed to. I'm calling the LFS today to see if they can see if they know what could have happened. Also bringing them some water so they can double check my test results.


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## Sully

Want to hear your update on what the LFS says. I'm looking to purchase a couple clown fish in the future. They looked great during acclimation. Sorry you lost one.


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## LTruex

This has been an interesting read, and I find my much earlier days of salt water would shock everyone since in those days the use of UG filter was the main tourch of filtration, and salt was more for the if you dare types, but the reason I write a post...I would have gasped at any additions of livestock once fish have been placed in the tank. for they like freshwater fish are territorial multiplied 3 times over and will kill an offender. My fish were 2perc. clowns and made the mistake of 2 tomatoe clowns (fights) 2 blue damsiles to know when the water had a problem...they are very water sinsitive. 1 Nizzo tang, 1 puffer fish, and that proved to be a leason...don't excite a puffer fish during a cleaning, for if he discharges a milk looking material into the water...everything including himself will die, and the cleanup recovery is long and slow...lucky for me all the coral and other fish were out of the tank when he let it rip.
My tank at the time was home made 300 gal. 7ft long, 3ft wide and 2ft deep. It became my wifes tank in the divorce and don't know how all faired....I had the tank for 4 years with a minimum of problems or loss did have anemone for clowns, finally got rid of tomates as the don't like percula clowns and leaned not to net and grab tangs and why they are surgion fish family. but today the use of sumps, and skimmers was not popular, but known even then. Much of what I learned then and now goes into my current aquarium build...finally gpd605x it was a big step and you and your wife are to be commended, but its a long road ahead and you really need to read up on what you are doing, and what fish you will get... advise don't net and grab tangs. Larry


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## gpd605x

Well a little update...

Tank is still doing good, no problems. Haven't added any more LR yet, found a guy (3hrs away) that has about 80lbs for $1 per lbs. Hopefully I will get it soon. Still have the 2 Chromis and the 1 clown. I got a gift card for xmas to my LFS so I went in and got a beautiful Flame Angel. They said they just got him in on a trade so it's used to the tank life. Acclimated him for an hour and so far he is doing great. I just love the colors on him/her. My next plan is to get the LR, hopefully soon. Not many other plans for the tank right now.


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

Found a good deal on Craigslist. 2 Clowns, 2 Chromis, 30lbs of LR and Seaclone 100 Protein Skimmer for $130.
































New rock on the Left

































I've heard things about more than 2 clowns but I've been watching them closely and they aren't chasing each other or anything. They larger 2 are keeping together while the smallest (one I had) is keeping to himself. They are ranged pretty much small, medium and large. I want to get 2 or 3 nems to help out the separation. The 2 chromis are a bit larger as well and everyone seem's to be getting along. With the new rock, I created a lot of hiding spaces and small spots. If they start to become aggressive with the smaller Clown, I will just bring him back to my LFS and get something else.


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## Reefing Madness

I still foresee a lot of problems with what you are planning on doing. But, its not my tank.


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## gpd605x

Yea, I plan on moving the smallest clown out soon and bring him back to the LFS and get a credit towards a nem. What problems you think will occur? I hope nothing too drastic


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## Reefing Madness

Your tank is to small for more than one Nem, and most Nems get to be 10-20" in diameter, depends on which one you get. All those Damsels is just a headache waiting to happen. They are just flat out mean, and will kill each other, you will end up with one. Same with the Chromis, they will do the same to each other, you will end up with one. Bad fish to keep in a SW tank. There are a couple Chromis you can keep, but not the ones you've chosen.
Your bioload is going to get out of hand fast, as that skimmer is not going to help you one bit. Watch jour water parameters. And also, I. Order to keep a Nem, you need very high lighting, and Prestine water conditions. Meaning you need to watch Alk, Mag and Phosphates along with the normal tests, making sure they are all 0.


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## gpd605x

Oh, I didn't realize nems got that large. I've had 2 chromis since august and they haven't been aggressive at all. I currently have a Deep Blue SolarMaxHE Double T5 lights. One White bulb and one purple-ish bulb. Would those be good enough for nems or would I need to upgrade to maybe 4 Bulb T5 or just LED?


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## Reefing Madness

4 lamp T-5, LED or Halides.


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## gpd605x

ok, thanks! I'll start looking for new lights


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## gpd605x

Would these lights be good enough?
48" Saltwater Lighting


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## zwanged

gpd605x,

Great thread! This has been a very interesting read. I plan on sticking to FW for now, but bravo to you for making the bold jump into SW. Please keep us posted on new developments.

Thanks,
-Zeke


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## gpd605x

Or this one...
48" 800 Lumens LED Aquarium Light


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## coralbandit

T5 seemed ok(good deal!).The LED is freshwater and probably will not provide enough light.


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## Reefing Madness

gpd605x said:


> Would these lights be good enough?
> 48" Saltwater Lighting


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## gpd605x

Thanks!! Would LED be better? They are pretty much the same price range
I found this one Beamswork 4800 Lumens 280 Count LED Reef Ready Lights


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## coralbandit

Although beam works is a good company,that model would seem to be their "low end". .02 watts is very low power(as state of the art right now for LED is 3watts).Additionally the toggle switch that operates all 3 phases of light is bunk ,as this makes using a timer for more than one of those features impossible.I would stay with the T5 you found earlier.I use Current True Lumen Pro LEDs if your intersted in LEDs.They cost much more than your selections so far.


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## gpd605x

Oh, Ok. I also found the same design but the LEDS were 1 watt each and 4900 lumens. 
Here is that one  BeamsWork 1W Quad 48" LED Light Fixture I know LEDS are overall better because they produce little to no heat and they don't take a crunch on your power bill.


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## coralbandit

Still thinking the T5 would be more powerful and unsure if timer(optional) would make all 3 phases of lights work in synchronised fashion.
Amazon.com: TrueLumen 48-Inch TrueLumen Pro LED Strip Light, Marine Fusion 12K White/Actinic Blue Combo with Canopy Brackets: Pet Supplies
I use 4 of these on my 75.You would also need 2 tranformers($50 each).
I have purchased other LEDs from pet store and they are all bunk.For the price of the T5 I would go with them and spend more time researching LEDs as most are really weak.For your NEM your looking for super bright,and I wouldn't chance lights that your not familiar with or someone wouldn't recommend.I recommend mine,but they are pricey.


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## Reefing Madness

Look for 3watt LEDs if your going that route, nothing in the 1w or under.


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## gpd605x

Ok, great. Thanks guys!


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## gpd605x

If I'm thinking correctly, the higher the lumens, the brighter correct? I found This one on the same website and they are 3 watt LED's and total of 32 LEDs with total of 4320 lumens. 24 White 10k LEDs and 8 Actinic 460nm LEDs.


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## coralbandit

I'm still skeptical as the light looks like(designed like) marineland reef light(no good).If the cost doesn't put you in a position of great discomfort then consider your purchase of these as an experiment,as results can only be told over time.Be prepared to seach for replacement though as it really looks the marine land double bright I consider(and own)as bunk(over my sword tails and barely supporting anacharis which needs very light to begin with).The T5 you listed are proven good lights.True Lumen price make you feel great discomfort? Cause if you buy those and they suck the replacement gets you into true lumen price range without true lumen!


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## Reefing Madness

Ok, ok, my bad for not going through the whole thing here.
3W LED, you found those, good. But I can't find the focusing lens on them. Anything over 80 and the light is going all over the place, and it gets wasted. I'd not go anything over that for that kind of fixture. The fixture itself would be ok to use if it stated the focusing lens. If its just using a reflector, forget it. Depth of tank, 18"??


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## gpd605x

Ok, I think I understand it now lol. I cant remember the depth of the tank but I can email the company and ask them about the focusing lens and see what they say. I found a good T5 so if ya'll that those are good, then I'll trust ya'lls judgement. Thanks again everyone!


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## Reefing Madness

Yea the T-5 is a definate, no problems there. I don't want to keep you from LEDs because they are the bomb, and have the shimmer effect that Halides produce in tanks. Only Halides and LED will do this.


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## gpd605x

A little update, the 3 clowns are doing fine. Every time I see them they aren't chasing each other or anything. If I see anything like that, I'll move the smaller clown to my 10 gal tank. Also noticed a small bit of green hair algea growing, just need to get some inverts to clean that up. I've also noticed a lot of red stuff growing on the LR. It looks a little stringy. Not sure what it is, if anyone could help me out...


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## Reefing Madness

Cyanobacteria
How To Get Rid Of Red Slime (Cyanobacteria) Pest Algae Saltwater Aquarium Advice Blog


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## gpd605x

Thanks! What inverts are best for getting rid of it? I read the link but it didn't say which ones were best


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## coralbandit

I didn't see inverts as a solution to cyanno in that link?They're not.It is a water quality issue so lets start with water parameters first.The link listed many solutions, but clearly stated you need to find the cause of the cyanno(it's in your water probably) then pick the proper treatment.I've used RED SLIME REMOVER and found it effective,but believe it contains antibiotics which also are not always desirable.Re-read link and post water test.


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## Reefing Madness

Its about silicate, water quality, lighting, overfeeding. Quite a few things that affect this stuff. Inverts, there are a few that will help out.
Saltwater Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Astraea Turbo Snail
Saltwater Invertebrates for Marine Aquariums: Banded Trochus Snail
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Aquariums: Nerite Snail
Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Aquariums: Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab
Saltwater Aquarium Crabs for Marine Reef Aquariums: Electric Blue Hermit Crab
Saltwater Aquarium Crabs for Marine Reef Aquariums: Electric Orange Hermit Crab
Saltwater Aquarium Crabs for Marine Aquariums: Halloween Hermit Crab
Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab


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## gpd605x

Thanks guys!! Always full of great info!

While looking at the tank, I noticed my Flame Angel's right eye looked to have some white over its eye.... I just noticed this within the past few days. Here's some pictures of its eye. It's hard to get a good still shot of it. It's constantly on the move.
Here's its left eye








and now the right


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## Reefing Madness

OOOF, if its both eyes its probably Pop Eye. Not cool. If its one eye its a Boo-Boo.
If it continues or appears to get worse, the best choice is an antibiotic treatment. Since the ‘true Popeye’ can kill, the fish should be moved to a QT and given antibiotics that will go inside the fish. One such is Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. For Popeye, dose Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes at twice the recommended first dosage. If the fish doesn’t show signs of improvement in 4 or 5 days, stop the Maracyn Two treatment and treat with an anti-fungal medication (e.g., one containing Nifurpirinol).


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## gpd605x

Yea its only on 1 eye. I've got a 10g tank laying around and been wanting to use it as a QT tank. Do I need to pull in some water from the bigger tank or what? I mean if I get some RO water from my LFS, does it need to cycle or anything? I want to correctly do it and not harm the fish in any way


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## Reefing Madness

If its one eye, leave him be, he probably bumped it darting around, i've seen this many times on my ding dong fish. It should heal up in a couple of weeks. If it was a bump you should see it get milky white in a couple days, thats a good sign that its healing. Wait a few days to see what happens. 
On the QT side of thing, you can get the tank up and running, but it will take more than just water to get the tank cycled over really fast, you'll have to sacrifice a piece of Live Rock to get the bacteria going.


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## gpd605x

Ok, I dumped a about 9 gallons of water from the main tank into the qt tank. I have a heater and filter going on it for about a week now. I need to add more salt to the tank too, its just a little too low on salinity


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## Reefing Madness

Right on, no worries. Gotta take your time on this one to, just like the DT, ya gotta have this one perfect for the fish too.


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## gpd605x

Thanks! You just full of info! lol


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

Well I'm moving sometime next week and get to break the tank down and clean it really well. I found a few tips/techniques on how to move it and all. Any suggestions? Since I have this Cyno Slime outbreak, what could I do about it? Can I take the rock and lightly scrub the cyno or what? From what I've read, it's best to get new water for the tank but wouldn't getting new water have to be cycled just like starting with a new tank? Should I keep some of the old water and mix it? My substrate is crushed coral, do I need to re-rinse it or just leave it? I read that with Live Sand its best to throw out the old sand and get new... Just want to make sure I do everything right and whats best for the tank and the fish.


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## coralbandit

Scrubbing the cyanno off is fine.Although your water cotains very little beneficial bacteria,I would hold on to 1/2 if possible.Keep your substrate wet during move and do not replace any of it as much of your BB is in the substrate.Try not to stir it up during move and re-filling.Try to have water already made up and waiting for you where your moving to.That means moving tank last or on second trip.If you can't move 1/2 of your water no big deal more important is to have new water made up correctly, up to temp and ready to go in tank as soon as you get tank in new place.This should all be done as quickly as possible(not over days).Keep any filter material you use moist also,possibly running filter on cotainer your moving fish in.


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## Reefing Madness

Getting new water is best way to go, the majority of your bacteria is in the Live Rock, so your tank will not go through a cycle by just using new water, your safe there, just make sure your new batch is to temperature and SG when you add it. Same as us preaching that using Fully Cured Live Rock will cycle your tank in 3 days, your Rock is Fully Cured.
You'll definately want to rinse out the substrate, and this has trapped debre in it and can cause some issues if just thrown back in.
You can throw all the rock into a tote, or pieces at a time with your tank water, and scrub em all off, this will not harm the rock in any way.


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## gpd605x

Ok great! I don't have a RO/DI but my local LFS has their water for about $0.25 a gallon so I'll be using that. 

So making sure I got everything straight...

I can scrub the rock to get rid of the cyno and it contains all of my beneficial bacteria so once I get all the cyno off, I can just add it back to the new tank water.

I need to get new water and just use the old water for transporting the rock and fish to their new location. Before putting the new fish in, I need to make sure the salinity and temperature is the same from before the move.

I need to clean the substrate good because of possible trapped debris and once its all clean, add it to the tank. 

When transporting, I've got large buckets. Once the LR is clean, put it in the buckets with an airstone or powerhead and also have the fish in the bucket with the rock correct?

Any other suggestions?


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## Reefing Madness

Got everything , but. Do no put the fish in the buckets with the Rock. Fish need to be in their own container. No need to air stone in the rock bucket, use it for the fish. When putting your tank together, put rock in first, then sand, make sure its all to SG and temp, then add fish.


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## gpd605x

Well finished the move. A bit of a pain but overall not too bad. Got all the rock and tank all nice and clean. Added new water, new salt and several hours later, the fish. 

Temp was right around 77ish degrees.


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## coralbandit

Good deal!


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## Sully

haha, had to steal RM's emoticon on this one. Congrats on the succesful move.


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## gpd605x

Thanks! Also got me a Magnafloat to help with cleaning. My next thing will be moving to a 100g reef ready tank. I'll prob use the 55 as a sump. But that's a ways down the road. My flame angels eye is still whiteish in color, so I'm going to bring him to my LFS and let them look at him and see what they say...


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## Reefing Madness

I'd leave the Angel alone. His eye is either healing, or its gone. Your liable to end up with something worse, after you chase him around to get him netted.


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## dvanbramer88

Very Nice!


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## gpd605x

Thanks! 
A little update.... The angel is starting to look worse so I finally got my 10g Hospital tank set up. Got the salinity exactly the same as the display tank. 
Hospital Tank (10g, lil 10w Heater, air stone and a little hiding place)









The flame angel is starting to lose its color and just yesterday I noticed what looked like damage to the right side of him behind his gills.
Here's his left side:









Right side:

















I got some of this from Petsmart until my LFS opens tomorrow to get better meds


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Thanks!
> A little update.... The angel is starting to look worse so I finally got my 10g Hospital tank set up. Got the salinity exactly the same as the display tank.
> Hospital Tank (10g, lil 10w Heater, air stone and a little hiding place)
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I believe your Flame Angel may have Flukes. You could try googling 'freshwater dips' and the medication 'Metronidazole'. There may be a secondary infection at this point too. Wild caught marine angels are notorious for flukes.
> 
> Oh...and since Flukes are a parasite, you may want to reconsider placing substrate in your QT tank. It looks super nice though. I love blue.


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## gpd605x

Well a little update....
I did 5 days of the Instant Ocean pills and his color was coming back and looking good again. The damage behind the fin seems to not be going away but is looking better. I also went to my LFS and they gave me some more meds and I asked them about what his illness could be. They said it looked like he was attacked but couldn't say for sure.
They gave me this:








They said keep using the Instant Ocean and use this with it. The bottle says 5mL for every 10g. So I've been doing that also for about 3 days now. The day after I notice his color back, he looks white again... Looks almost more white than he did before. Also started looking at the clowns and noticed some small spots and some stuff on their fins. Just great, so I figured, I might as well med the whole tank while I'm at it. The thing is, I have had this Flame Angel for over 3 months... could it have been that the ich just appeared and didn't come from any fish or what?
Here's the pics of the clowns...
















^^If you look at this one, you can slightly see just above his forehead.


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## johnmark03

Good luck! I have wanted to go salt water and I try it at my level. Maybe one day. We can do it!


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## coralbandit

When was the last time you tested water parameters and what were they?I have to suspect that anything could be out of wack and wonder how your pH stays steady with regular aquarium gravel instead of marine sand or crushed coral to help buff it up?
Hope everyone gets better but test water just in case .
The blue gravel is just in hospital tank right?


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## gpd605x

Yea, the blue gravel is just in the hospital tank. I have crushed coral substrate in the main tank. I'll have to go back and look at the test but everything appeared to be normal. I'll retest and post up.


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## gpd605x

Here's my test results...


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## Reefing Madness

Your QT is cycling?


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## gpd605x

Those results are from the main tank. The QT Tank has been fine. I'm testing the QT Tank now just to be sure.


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## coralbandit

You questionably have ammonia and you are sky high with nitrIte.the nitrItes need to be removed by water changes.Possibly your cycle was "broken" when you moved.You do have nitrates which is a good sign but those nitrItes could be causing trouble for your fish.


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## gpd605x

How much water change should i do? 25%? 50%?


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## Reefing Madness

50% will cut your numbers in 1/2.


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## gpd605x

Ok, I did a 50% water change, I'll retest in the morning. Thanks guys!


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## gpd605x

Main tank:









QT Tank:


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## coralbandit

NitrItes are still really high.They should be 0.


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## Reefing Madness

That test kit working? Both tanks have high Nitrite readings.


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## Goby

It's my understanding that he's dosing a broad-spectrum medication in both of those tanks, so they're both going to cycle due to the massive die off of bacteria. He's treating the angel in the QT and the clowns in the display.

QT tanks and Hospital tanks, in a perfect world, should be kept separate. I haven't seen that topic addressed much in any of the forums I frequent. Dosing meds in a QT tank means frequent water changes. 

I've learned to fresh-water dip everything prior to going into QT, and more often than not something squirms off of them. Wild fish live in harmony with many parasites, however the stress of capture and import allows the parasites to overtake the fish. Captive bred fish are cleaner, but if they've ever been kept in a facility with a central water system, I assume they're flukey too. A stressed-out wormy captive fish is going to eventually develop bacterial and fungal infections that make it vulnerable to the opportunisic pathogens that lurk in our tanks...ICK.

Prevention, at least for me, has proven to be the best practice.


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## gpd605x

My LFS Guys said that I should take out all the livestock in thank and let it re-cycle. I don't exactly have anywhere to put this livestock still the tank is done. To top that off, the skimmer, no matter how I tweak it, is throwing microbubbles everywhere and clouds up the tank. The only way the tank looks clear is when I turn the air valve off or turn it off completely. 

The test kit should be working...it's not even 5 months old. I haven't had any other issues with the test kits. Should I buy some insta-bacteria type stuff since I have no where to put the livestock? I don't want to harm any of the fish but I also don't want to get rid of them and do it all over again... Any suggestions guys?


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## Goby

The Melafix is what's causing your skimmer to overskim...they need to put a warning on that bottle! You're skimmer will eventually stop doing that. I used to know what caused the overskimming but I can't remember exactly now...it has something to do with a change in the water's cohesivness...or something. Every bit of this is frustrating as he|| I know...I've been there. I've experienced all the crap you're dealing with and it sux. 

Yes, the best thing for your fish would be to temporarily remove them from your display tank and place them in a fully cycled tank. So do you have one of those lying around somewhere? Did the fishstore guy offer to borrow you one? No?

So in the real world...

The next best thing would be to simply correct the problems in your display tank as quickly as possible. Worst case scenerio, you may lose some fish and gain a he|| of a lot of knowledge. Best case...you may save them all and still get wise. If this were going on in my tank right now, this is what I'd do...

I'd shut off the lights, raise the water temp, and add a bacterial supplement to my display tank. I'm not usually a big fan of cycling shortcuts, but it's an appropriate emergency intervention in this case. I’m thinking Bio Spira because it’s an actual bacterium and not just a bacterium enhancer. I'm not a huge fan of carbon either, but it has its place in this hobby and I'd use it in this instance to remove the crud in the water that’s been dissolved beyond skimming size. I don’t know if Bio Spira is compatible with skimming or carbon so you may have to temporarily hold off on both...read the label. I’d raise the water temp as high as your fish and coral species can stand it. I’m comfortable with 88 degrees but every reef has different limits…Xenia can’t go above 87 degrees, ( I think). I'd also get a quality UV sterilizer going…one size larger than what’s recommended for your tank. UV lamps are cheap and worth their weight in gold and I will debate that to the end of time. UV will help to control the disease pathogens now and it will also help with the nuisance algae after the mini-cycle. And then when my display was once again invert-safe, I'd add at least 2 skunk cleaner shrimp to the community…one large and one medium sized. They’re even better than UV. The other cleaner shrimp species are not as reliable. 

If your clowns are in the early stages of disease, I'd do a freshwater dip with copper. I'd catch them at night, in the dark, when they're asleep. I'd just dip them into a zip lock bag of FW that'd been floating in the tank for a 1/2-hour or so. I'd add the copper right before the dip. I'd reach in the tank and catch the sleeping clownfish with my hands...it's easier than it sounds (with clownfish). I wouldn't chase them around the tank with a net. If your clowns are in the late stage of disease...well then it's hit or miss. I'd personally still do a FW/copper dip but with the understanding that while it may be the only thing that can save them, it may also be the final stressor that kills them. Many of the parasites may drop off during the dip and some may drop off later. Most fish just swim around in the freshwater. Some throw a fit and topple over and act like they're going to die, (none of mine have). They'll act a little pist and twitchy when they get back in the tank but they'll get over it as they've just been given immediate blood sucking relief. I'd expect to find the clown looking and acting much better by morning. Or dead. I'd repeat the FW dip daily as needed. How long should the fish stay in the freshwater? There are a lot of opinions on that. I've safely dipped fish for several minutes...maybe as long as 10 minutes or more. Should the freshwater be Ph adjusted? Again, lots of opinions. Some say yes, others no. I don't. You can. I use dechlorinated temperature adjusted tap water. With that, I believe you're using a good medication, however I doubt it's claim of stopping Oodinium (Velvet)…not without also ending the life cycle of the parasites that are physically on the fish. In fact that holds true with all marine parasites, including ICK. To actually kill the adult bugs, you'll need fresh water. And I realize your fish may not have Oodinium yet, but if they're sick and imported they're going to...and that's what will finally take out your whole tank.

Surely others will have ideas for you too…good ones…different ones. But don’t listen to anyone who tells you UV sux. They’re talking smack. UV is hands down the best investment I’ve made in my reef.


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## Goby

Oh, and get some Prime into the water ASAP to neutralize that ammonia...a dose and a 1/2 at first, and then a regular daily dose after that until your parameters are safe. Water changes as you see fit but don't go super crazy with the water changes. 

Let's see what else...


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## gpd605x

Well I do have an empty 29 gallon tank. What would I need to get it set up fast and safe for them to be in temporarily until the DT gets cycled?


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Well I do have an empty 29 gallon tank. What would I need to get it set up fast and safe for them to be in temporarily until the DT gets cycled?


A cycled filter, some cycled media and some fully cured live rock? Maybe? I think I'd skip the substrate. I've honestly never put together a fully cycled emergency tank so maybe the Mad Reefer or CB can chime in. Do you know people who could borrow you those items? Do you have a local reef club with a forum where you can request some help? Fish people tend to be helpful by nature...you might be surprised what people are willing to borrow you. Use your local resources...those individuals are great support! How are your clownfish btw? Clowns don't like to be moved. There's always that decision of whether it's better to leave them where they feel safe, or to stress them in an unfamiliar environment. Only you know their coping abilities. And no matter what you do, there will always be someone out there who's going to tell you their way was better. So what. What's done is done. Just listen kindly and then roll your eyes when they aren't looking.


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## Goby

I've been on-call all night and I'm done now so I'm going to bed. I wish you good luck today getting things squared away. And regardless of how this round ends, the next round will be better. That's how it works.


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## gpd605x

Thanks! I'm going to head to my LFS and see what they can do for me. Maybe they can keep them till its done cycling or something. Thanks again!


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## gpd605x

Update:
Brought a water sample to the LFS and they said My nitrites are low and my nitrates are good. I think my test kit may be malfunctioning or something. They also said my Salinity was low @ 1.016, which I was very surprised because last time I checked it, it was 1.023. So I got more salt and now its sitting between 1.025 & 1.026. Also just ordered this T5 Quad 48" Reef Light. I'm going to start off slow and cheap that way I can get used to keeping soft corals and get more experience with keeping them. I can't wait though!


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## gpd605x

I'm looking at getting some new powerheads/wavemakers and wanted opinions on these...I really want to stay away from suction cups, they are just annoying.
Circulation Pump Wave Maker 1300 GPH Aquarium Reef Powerhead Magnetic Mount

1300GPH Wave maker pump MAGNETIC MOUNT circulating Aquarium powerhead JVP-102B


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I'm looking at getting some new powerheads/wavemakers and wanted opinions on these...I really want to stay away from suction cups, they are just annoying.
> Circulation Pump Wave Maker 1300 GPH Aquarium Reef Powerhead Magnetic Mount
> 
> 1300GPH Wave maker pump MAGNETIC MOUNT circulating Aquarium powerhead JVP-102B


I like the 360 degree rotation on both of those powerheads. Otherwise, they remind me of my own Hydor Koralia's which I plan to run over with my car the day I can afford to get new powerheads. My tank need a more random flow. The Koralia's are just water blowers IMO...although others claim to like them very much. I'm looking at getting...

Sorta spendy but I'd only need one...

Taam Mini Polario 10ml Low Voltage Bi Directional Water Pump | eBay

I know that's not exactly what you asked...just sayin.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Update:
> Brought a water sample to the LFS and they said My nitrites are low and my nitrates are good. I think my test kit may be malfunctioning or something. They also said my Salinity was low @ 1.016, which I was very surprised because last time I checked it, it was 1.023. So I got more salt and now its sitting between 1.025 & 1.026. Also just ordered this T5 Quad 48" Reef Light. I'm going to start off slow and cheap that way I can get used to keeping soft corals and get more experience with keeping them. I can't wait though!


I started with a FOWLR...never considered corals and other inverts until later on. I started out slow too and have enjoyed the learning process very much. You'll have a lot of fun with your new light. 

I'm glad to hear your water is better than once thought. My test kit is touchy. I've learned to shake the chemicals about 3 times longer than the directions suggest. 

Did your LFS mention the benefits of low salinity while treating fish for ICK etc?


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## gpd605x

No they did not mention the benefits of the low salinity... They tested the water and said my salinity could be causing the Flame to lose color so I went home and added more salt. 

My current powerhead just is a fan that throws water so I'm thinking of getting 2 of those to replace the other one. I might just leave it in there though.

I'm thinking of placing the new ones directly across from each other then the older powerhead on the back glass going straight across. Would that plan be ok? I'm not real sure where to put them.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Update:
> Brought a water sample to the LFS and they said My nitrites are low and my nitrates are good. I think my test kit may be malfunctioning or something. They also said my Salinity was low @ 1.016, which I was very surprised because last time I checked it, it was 1.023. So I got more salt and now its sitting between 1.025 & 1.026. Also just ordered this T5 Quad 48" Reef Light. I'm going to start off slow and cheap that way I can get used to keeping soft corals and get more experience with keeping them. I can't wait though!


You should get one of these too...or something similar. It's so much fun to watch marine animals under the moonlights. And if you leave it on during the day with your HO fixture your water will glisten and twinkle.

48" 24 LED Moonlight Aquarium Moon Light with Dimmer | eBay


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## gpd605x

The quad T5 light I just ordered has 4 of them, Not sure how far apart they are spread out. I really want to go LED but I think once I get some more experience with corals etc, then I'll spend that much on it. When my light comes in...should I ditch my glass lids and leave it uncovered or keep them on?


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> No they did not mention the benefits of the low salinity... They tested the water and said my salinity could be causing the Flame to lose color so I went home and added more salt.
> 
> My current powerhead just is a fan that throws water so I'm thinking of getting 2 of those to replace the other one. I might just leave it in there though.
> 
> I'm thinking of placing the new ones directly across from each other then the older powerhead on the back glass going straight across. Would that plan be ok? I'm not real sure where to put them.


I've been told to put one power head on the back wall of each corner and to point them both downward towards the opposite bottom corner, so that the flows hit each other somewhere front/center. I think that's probably sound advice but it doesn't work for my particular reef-in-progress. I'd prefer a gentle random current that exists evenly rather than a typhoon in the middle that gradually disperses its energy outward. I'd love to get a wave box but they're not in my price range. 

Your placement idea may work great. It's essentially the same idea as what I explained above. Before you decide on a GPH, think about what types of corals you want to keep. For example Zoanthids won’t open in a strong current and mushrooms will struggle to feed if the flow is too fast. 

Your LFS may have been right about the low salinity contributing to the struggles of your Flame Angel, I honestly don’t know…it seems logical. That said, you might still Google Hypo salinity treatment for ICK. IMO hypo salinity treatment for an entire FOWLER tank is less stressful than ongoing freshwater dips. I kept my salinity low when I first starting adding my fish, solely to help control the ICK I knew was lurking. Now that I have corals and inverts it's no longer an option of course, but I still believe an understanding of the science behind the benefits of hypo salinity are helpful.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> The quad T5 light I just ordered has 4 of them, Not sure how far apart they are spread out. I really want to go LED but I think once I get some more experience with corals etc, then I'll spend that much on it. When my light comes in...should I ditch my glass lids and leave it uncovered or keep them on?


You can grow lots of cool stuff with T5s...some of the most successful hobbyists use them. I think that's all Sally at GARF uses. LEDS are really nice and they're getting cheaper and better as time goes on. 4 blue 1 watt LED bulbs will give you some nice moonlight at night but it won't give you the brilliant shimmer during the day. 

As far as whether or not you should remove the glass...that's a tough one. Fish jump. I believe if you commit to keeping the glass super clean you'd be fine with keeping the glass on. Others will tell you to take the glass off. When I used T5's I tried it both ways and I can't say I saw much difference other than when the glass was off, I had both a Dottyback and a Coral Beauty jump out. I saved the Coral Beauty and not the Dottyback but that was just as well because I hated that b|tchy fish. Also, when the glass was off, I had a lot more evaporation…a lot. That being said, when the glass was off I was able to keep the tank cooler during the hot summer months. Then again when the glass was off I had to keep the current at the top of the water lower or the resulting mist would cause a lot of salt build-up on my light. I personally like a lot of movement at the top of my tank…it increases the water’s oxygen content and moves nutrients into the surface skimmer of my overflow box.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Update:
> Brought a water sample to the LFS and they said My nitrites are low and my nitrates are good. I think my test kit may be malfunctioning or something. They also said my Salinity was low @ 1.016, which I was very surprised because last time I checked it, it was 1.023. So I got more salt and now its sitting between 1.025 & 1.026. Also just ordered this T5 Quad 48" Reef Light. I'm going to start off slow and cheap that way I can get used to keeping soft corals and get more experience with keeping them. I can't wait though!


Keep an eye on that Flame Angel when you start adding corals to the tank. Dwarf Angels are usually listed as "Reef Safe w/caution" and that's because when they get hungry they’ll sample corals, especially polyps and soft corals and once they get a taste, it's difficult to stop them. Despite the claims of some, all the Centropyge Angels are risky in a reef...some do fine, others not so much. Your Flame Angel will need to be fed very regularly and at minimum daily. I had a striking Coral Beauty that I truly enjoyed but had to gift to someone in my reef club because it liked to eat zoanthids. I had a Limbaughi Chromis that would throw temper tantrums when another fish would kick him out of his cave. He would tear into the corals until he got his cave back. I had to sell him on Craigslist. Those are the only 2 fish that have caused me true grief. 

I've since reprioritized my goals and even culled reef-safe fish. I’m trying to stay committed to fish that donate something to the reef. I keep a juvenile Scopas Tang to control the hair algae. The corals and inverts that live in my reef require nutrients to be left in the water therefore hair algae grows...not gobs but enough to irritate me. I felt I had to sacrifice all the fish I had swimming in the water column so the Scopas could essentially have the heart of the tank, including it's caves, to herself. And she does. That's apparently the way a juvenile Scopas thrives in captivity. They are timid until they are adults…then they rule the roost (I’ve read). Any territory squabbling from tank mates I was told would have stressed the scopes out, and Tangs do not tolerate stress well. She would have likely hid and gotten sick. She alone, is a chore. She has to be fed tiny amounts several times per day as she grows, and she can't survive on hair algae alone. So far she's done beautifully but if I get slack with her feedings for even a day, it shows. I have an orange spotted blenny that honestly, I regret getting. But he definitely contributes to keeping the tank tidy. He’s just too p|st-off for me. But he never bothers the Scopas and for the most part he stays out of the water column. I have orange Skunk Clowns that are a riot to watch host the bubble tip anemones. They are so protective of their BTAs! They literally attack and bite my arm the second it enters the tank and they don't back down for anything. They would fight to the death for their anemones. They never leave them. If ever I have to catch one of the skunk clowns, all I’ll have to do is pick up their nem. I had a beautiful pair of Black Ice Clownfish that I thought I'd have forever, but they were super territorial and they would have bullied the tang to death. They were my first saltwater fish...loyal and so forgiving. I sold them back to their breeder for a really good price. That was tough. Everything else in my reef lives underground. Gobies, by far, are my favorite and the life-long commitment they make to shrimp is fun to observe. I have lots of symbiotic inverts as well...Pederson shrimp, Sexy shrimp, anemone crabs...all whom host my corals and anemones such as xenia, mini carpets, rock flower nems etc. The symbiotic relationships are the most rewarding aspect of reef-keeping for me personally. I hope to get a sponge crab and an urchin crab this year. I’m hoping the urchin crab will host a fire urchin. 

So I encourage you to plan your reef in advance…in some respects in its entirety, so you don’t have to rehome fish like I did. Catching them sux. There are so many different types of reefs. I spend a lot of time reading and I have corresponded with some very knowledgeable hobbyists such as Sally Jo at Garf and Bob Fenner. I strongly recommend his site at wetwebmedia.com , especially his _Fishwatchers Guide_ Series. And if you have a local reef club, consider joining it. Tangible reefers are great support and provide outlets for unwanted stock. Fish people just tend to be good folks in general. You'll appreciate them when something fails, and something will. Just remember...everything counts towards your ultimate success...both the ups and the downs.

I hope your reefing journey is a great one.


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## gpd605x

Well I came home this morning and the Flame Angel was stuck to the Skimmer Pump, not sure how long he was like that.  I probably won't get any more fish right now, maybe some small ones but I'm going to some small corals. I'm pretty happy with my 4 chromis and 3 clowns (for now at least). I would like to get some Cardinals but not sure though. I would love to get a Tang but they all say they need at least 180 gallons or more...


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## gpd605x

I found an AquaPro Filtration Sump locally for $50. Seem like a good deal to you guys?









I know I would have to get a HOB overflow for it but if I researched right, this unit is $179 brand new.


----------



## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Well I came home this morning and the Flame Angel was stuck to the Skimmer Pump, not sure how long he was like that.  I probably won't get any more fish right now, maybe some small ones but I'm going to some small corals. I'm pretty happy with my 4 chromis and 3 clowns (for now at least). I would like to get some Cardinals but not sure though. I would love to get a Tang but they all say they need at least 180 gallons or more...


( no fair...sorry.


----------



## coralbandit

Sorry about your angel.
Good find on the filter it will surely make a difference in water quality.It has a built in auto fill so check out how to hook it up.
CPR CS100 Siphon Overflow
I'd get a skimmer box that allows for 10x waterflow(regardless of pump).You may find better prices on other sites ,but the CPR boxes are among the best.I use a reef octopus box skimmer and really like it.I used the CPR 50 on my 29g with 300 g flow aprox.and wish I had a bigger one(that's how I got the reef octopus).


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## gpd605x

Thanks! I need to find a decent overflow...I just wish they weren't so expensive lol


----------



## coralbandit

Hang On Back Overflow Box - Reef Aquarium Setup - Aqua C and Octopus
these are a little cheaper(not huge difference) but I really like the reef ocotpus(all their products are top of the line).I think I'm using the 1200 gph model on my 29 flowing like 300gph without problems.I did add the aqualifter pump and never need to worry about bubbles in syphon anymore.I did just change to black tubing as the clear grew algae in it an was clogged.


----------



## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I found an AquaPro Filtration Sump locally for $50. Seem like a good deal to you guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know I would have to get a HOB overflow for it but if I researched right, this unit is $179 brand new.


I'm filtration-equipment challenged. Sumps are new to me; I've only been managing one for a little over a year. An individual in this forum talked me through the process last year...I think that's what brought me here. 

I started with a 10-gallon aquarium sump inside my stand and eventually switched to a Rubbermaid tote that sits beside my tank. Initially I used a 25-gallon container but I'm currently using one with a capacity of 40 gallons and I appreciate the space. It's not pretty but it's very accessible which is important for me cuz I like to fiddle with things. My large skimmer sits inside the sump, as well as macroalgae and lots of live rock. I favor having cured rock ready at all times. I also like to experiment with different types of medias in strainers that catch the water from my overflow. I'm not big on reactors but only because I get intimidated managing equipment with hoses that connect to things. My husband is good with that stuff but he refers to my anemones as "those round fish"...so, yeah. He did make a custom cover for my sump though, with the lid that came with it. I have an antique drop-leaf table that tips over it so it’s not as noticeable. IMO $50 is a fair price for equipment that’s nearly $200 new. I always look for used equipment prior to buying new.

I have a Tom Surface Skimmer Overflow and I love it. I can't say enough positive things about it. It was more than I wanted to spend but it's been one of my best investments. It has some really useful features and even I was able to install it. 

Tom Aquatics Pro Series Surface Skimmer Overflow Box w/ Aqua Lifter - Overflow Boxes

Does the sump your buying have a place for a filter sock? That may seem like an unimportant feature but since I started using socks in my sump, the water in my display has noticeably less free-floating particles in it. I also like being able to throw carbon in a sock for a couple days if need be...and other temporary medias as well.

Again, I’m sorry about your Flame Angel. I found one of my skunk cleaner shrimp dead this passed weekend, looking as though nothing was wrong with him. He was huge. He’d been with me since the beginning so it made me sad. I wish I knew why he died. I’m not sure what their lifespan is. I had a large anemone split last week so I ran carbon for several days and I dunno…sometimes I suspect carbon is the culprit to that sorta thing. I don’t think any of my shrimp or my Scopas Tang act right when I’m running carbon. Maybe my cleaner shrimp was trying to shed and couldn’t cuz I had stripped the water? Who knows. 

On a happier note, let’s talk coral. What will you get first? How old is your tank? What did you decide to do about powerheads?


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## gpd605x

I'm probably going to go with some cheap zoas or something like that. Frags at my LFS are about $15 each so nothing too expensive. They suggested to get some cheap ugly ones to start out with, that way I can gain some experience. Well the tank was up and running for about 5 months or so until I moved at the end of February. Haven't decided on the powerheads... I don't want to get too much flow (I don't think there is such a thing) and I don't want to blast them.


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## gpd605x

My lights came in!! My next question.... What kind of schedule should run these lights at? I have no idea what the optimal schedule would be. 
On to the pictures...
































LED Moon Lights x4








10k Lights x2








Actnics x2


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## gpd605x

Found this schedule online, any good?
11:00am actnic goes on.
11:05am moon go off.
12:00pm 10K go on.
10:00pm 10K go off
10:55pm moon go on
11:00pm actinic go off.


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## Reefing Madness

Yea, that'll work.


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## gpd605x

Thanks!! Picking up the sump and overflow tomorrow!


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

Here's my sump, It's an AquaPro 75 Wet/Dry Filtration System. Retails for $179.00 and got it for $50!









Here's my overflow. It's a CPR CS90. Retails for $109.00, got it for $50! It's a little dirty so I am going to have to clean it really well and read the manual to figure out how it works. 

















Now I just need to get a return pump to send it back to the tank.


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## Reefing Madness

Right on my man. Coming together!!!


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## gpd605x

Now I just need to figure out how to set it all up. While I'm doing it, I'm gonna paint the back of the tank black and clean the back glass good with my mag cleaner. 

I can put my heater in the sump correct? Do I need to up the temp to account for any loss from the sump to back to the tank?


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## Reefing Madness

You'll have to be the judge of the temperature, I'd up it a degree or 2 to compensate, just depends on how good your heater is.


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## gpd605x

Well set it all up, it was a pain in the rear but it seems to be working ok. Even got electrocuted during the process lol. I was syncing everything up and plugged the sump pump up and was priming the overflow and turned my back for a second and then water starts pouring out the top of the tank onto my surge/protector, which was temporarily put on the ground. I run over and yank the plug out the wall and got a good little zap! Hurt like a mother!! But overall the surge protector did its job and no equipment was damaged or anything. So about 15 towels later and some much needed deep breaths of frustration, I finally got it working correctly. My Seaclone 100 Skimmer would not fit in the sump... only the return pump and my heater would fit so I need to find a smaller skimmer or bigger sump. My water isn't as clear as it was before with the HOB filter so I don't know if I need to add more foam or what. I made a quick little video of everything set up. Not sure if you can hear it but there's a pretty good hum going on and I'm not liking it at all. If I put a large towel over it and drowns it down a little bit but still makes the noise. So if anyone can help out with that, I'd greatly appreciate it! I have the skimmer hanging on the back for now but didn't plug it back in yet because its throwing micro bubbles everywhere and I don't like that. No matter how I mess with the air nozzle, it still throws the micro bubbles. It didn't use to do that before I moved so I'm not sure whats up with it. But here's the video of everything... Any and all advice is welcome, so let me know what I can be doing better or what would be more efficient.


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## gpd605x

Oh and I did put the heater up a few degrees. I'm running about 78-79 right now so I bumped it up to about 82. I'll give it a few days and see how it plays out. Is it normal to worry constantly about the tank overflowing?? If I hear any noise, I rush in there thinking its overflowing or something.... Its constantly worrying me and almost making me not want to do the whole sump/overflow thing.


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## Reefing Madness

Yea, first time you set up a sump you worry that the whole tank is emptying out onto the floor. It will subside in a couple days, then you'll be like WOOHOOO!!


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Well set it all up, it was a pain in the rear but it seems to be working ok. Even got electrocuted during the process lol. I was syncing everything up and plugged the sump pump up and was priming the overflow and turned my back for a second and then water starts pouring out the top of the tank onto my surge/protector, which was temporarily put on the ground. I run over and yank the plug out the wall and got a good little zap! Hurt like a mother!! But overall the surge protector did its job and no equipment was damaged or anything. So about 15 towels later and some much needed deep breaths of frustration, I finally got it working correctly. My Seaclone 100 Skimmer would not fit in the sump... only the return pump and my heater would fit so I need to find a smaller skimmer or bigger sump. My water isn't as clear as it was before with the HOB filter so I don't know if I need to add more foam or what. I made a quick little video of everything set up. Not sure if you can hear it but there's a pretty good hum going on and I'm not liking it at all. If I put a large towel over it and drowns it down a little bit but still makes the noise. So if anyone can help out with that, I'd greatly appreciate it! I have the skimmer hanging on the back for now but didn't plug it back in yet because its throwing micro bubbles everywhere and I don't like that. No matter how I mess with the air nozzle, it still throws the micro bubbles. It didn't use to do that before I moved so I'm not sure whats up with it. But here's the video of everything... Any and all advice is welcome, so let me know what I can be doing better or what would be more efficient.


I watched the video but wasn't able to make out some of the details. Regarding the microbubbles... 

I believe your skimmer is drawing water directly from the sump? If so, is there heavy turbulence happening in the sump? One way to reduce microbubbles is to pump the return-water from an area of the sump that's still and bubble-free. A couple ways I've accomplished stiller water... 

Instead of the overflow-water briskly spattering onto the surface of the sumps water, is there a way to soften that fall? I have water entering my sump in 2 places. In one place I use a filter sock to reduce splash...sometimes the sock is empty and other times it contains floss or media as needed. The sock catches debris and reduces the turbulence/bubbles in the sump. In another area I use a Tupperware container with a 6-8 inch porous holey calcium-rich live rock to catch water spilling into my sump. The water filters through and across the rock, fills the Tupperware container, and then gently overflows into the sump. That pathway reduces the amount of bubbles/turbulence and lends some biological filtration too. I've use the Tupperware container to place various medias as needed too. For whatever reason the amphipods and copepods like the Tupperware containers heavy turbulence and rock. Another thought...before the filtered water enters the final chamber of your sump, is there a way to slow it’s current down, such as directing it through foam? Also, is the waterline in the sump high enough, so that the water slowly seeps into the final chamber of the sump instead of pouring briskly into the final chamber? Macroalgae reduces turbulence and catches bubbles too. Do you have a place in the sump to free-float macroalgae?

Just an FYI: If your skimmer is drawing water directly from your display tank, and not the sump, then I'd try slowing the flow into the intake. In fact now that I think about it, you might try reducing your intake flow even if the skimmer is drawing water directly from the sump as excess turbulance within the skimmer also causes microbubbles. Also, there are a number of areas within a skimmer that may not be fully sealing thus blowing air. I had to beef up an O-ring with some tape to reduce an underwater air-leak between the pump and skimmer. I've replaced dozens of valves over the years to improve airflow-control and waterflow-control issues. New valves sometimes reduce irritating noise too. In my experience, hum’s often wane with time. 

Where is the hum coming from? I don't remember you mentioning its source.

Beyond that…

I believe you recently used Melafix? Melafix promotes microbubbles that will eventually dissipate with skimming. That said, I regularly dose a teeny teeny tiny shot of Melafix into my sump for the sole purpose of creating sticky microbubbles that seem to seal the invisible crannies of my skimmer. IMO, this increases the skimmers performance. Plus, unless I’m wet-skimming before a water change, I favor a thick, airy, sticky-dense foam. The free-floating microbubbles caused by Melafix are temporary.

If you ever buy a new overflow, do consider the Tom Surface Skimmer Overflow. I’m not familiar with your overflow model, but the Tom has a feature that prevents flooding in the event of a power outage, and it provides tight control of the water level in both your sump and your display.

I wouldn't fret about the haze in the water just yet. The new overflow has altered the flow of your tank and likely kicked up some debris. It will pass. Some filter floss or a sock in the sump would be a fast solution. You could also place a filter cartridge in your overflow to catch depris. Some overflows have media cartridges manufactured specifically for them. They function as prefilters. They also provide a way to slow the flow into the sump and run carbon if needed. 

The higher the water level in your sump, the more stable the water temp will be in your display.

Your display looks very nice BTW. Your fish appear to be happy, energetic and healthy.


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## gpd605x

When I shot the video, I didnt even have the skimmer running. There's another spot in the sump for an egg crate that I'm going to put another foam piece there to help out w/ noise and extra filtration. According to their website, they had a bunch of bio-balls there but my LFS said I wouldn't even need it that I can just leave a piece of LR in there. 

The hum is coming from the sump. Not sure what part but its a good hum. I'm having an issue with my pump pumping the water too quickly back into the main tank. So adjusting it just right takes some time. I'm worried that if I have too much water in it that it will overflow. According to the side of the sump, it has a Max level and a Min Level on it. (See Picture Attached) It also has a thing on the side of it, I think he said it was an auto top off thing or something... Not sure what I'm supposed to do with it.


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## Reefing Madness

Don't worry about the min/max, thats something you figure out on your own. What you do is fill the sump, with the sump running at the min line, turn off the return pump, let the water siphon back into the sump, find out where that line is, then add water to the sump until you get that water line to almost the top, possibly a few inches before the top. Thats the most the sump can take water line. Turn the pump back on, mark the sump after the tank fills back up, thats the max fill line.
The auto fill shut off is used in case you wish to add a ro line or such to that sump to fill itself, and this piece will shut down the fill to your adjustment.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums


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## Goby

Noisy sump ideas...

Maybe the normal vibration of the skimmer-return pump is transferring noise to the sump. Place the sump on a piece of soft dense foam. Also place a piece of aquarium-safe soft dense foam inside the sump beneath the return-pump itself. Both will absorb the shock of the vibration. My skimmer came with a piece of this foam, specifically for this purpose. 

If the skimmer return-pump sitting inside the sump is actually humming, AND it's GPH is adjustable, its flow valve may need to be opened a bit. Some equipment with an adjustable GPH gets noisy when the GPH allowance is reduced causing pressure to increase. Could there be debris, hair, chaeto, rocks etc bogging down the pump motor?

Is the casing around your return-pump screwed on tightly?

Place heavy live rock in the sump to weight it down and reduce vibration. For a lack of better words, your sump may be too hollow.

I've had to implement all the above at some point, to reduce noise. Your sump is something you’ll have to play around with to get just right.


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## gpd605x

Yea, I mean I don't have the skimmer running at all right now. The skimmer wont even fit into the sump. No matter how I put it in the sump, it wouldn't fit with the pump attached to it. This sump is really skinny and my stand is cheap and hard to get into to fool around with the sump. I mean its already a tight fit with just the heater and pump in there. I really want to get rid of the stand and get a bigger/more open one so I can actually get into and fix things or tweak things. If I put a towel over it, it does seem to drown the noise a little bit. The majority of the noise seems to be coming from where the white lid is, which is where the water from the overflow enters into the sump. It may be the actual pump cause it sits on the bottom of the sump but I'm not sure. I'll do some more tweaking on it to see about drowning out the noise and adding some foam.


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## Goby

The same concept applies to the return pump to the overflow. Try lifting up the pump inside the sump. Does the hum stop? If it does, place a dense foam cushion below both the sump and inside the sump below the return-pump. The tight fit inside your stand was the same reason I changed my sump to a rubbermaid tub that sits beside my tank. I won't leave it there forever, but for now it functions well and provides me the freedom to try different things.

How to Make a Fish Pump Quieter | eHow.com

Why does the skimmer need to be inside the sump? Could it drain into the sump while sitting beside it? Do you have a pump that could sit inside the sump and feed the skimmer? I'm not familiar with the mechanics of your skimmer...but I assume it is fed by a pump. Maybe yours came with a pump. My pump was seperate.


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## gpd605x

Yea, I'll check it when I get home. I'm going to mess with it and take some good pictures and a better video too


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Now I just need to figure out how to set it all up. While I'm doing it, I'm gonna paint the back of the tank black and clean the back glass good with my mag cleaner.
> 
> I can put my heater in the sump correct? Do I need to up the temp to account for any loss from the sump to back to the tank?


*gpd605x-* I've been thinking about painting the back of my tank too. How did that turn out for you? Did you go with black? I was thinking navy blue but black sounds nice too. I need to do something to spruce up the outside of my tank...my focus has been solely on the inside and my set-up itself looks like crap...which is why I hate to post pictures. You're set-up looks so nice and tidy...I like that. What type of paint did you use? And does your equipment scratch it? I was thinking of applying some sticky felt wherever the equipment rests. Also, how far is your tank from the wall? Mine is only 3-4 inches so I wonder if I could even fit a skinny paint roller back there. And did you fix the hum in your sump? 

*To everyone else-* I've been looking at those 3-D backgrounds too, but I worry it will look fake. Have any of the reefers here ever seen one of those 3-D backgrounds in person? I live in such a rural area...I don't get to see much. Would zoas and stars etc attach to it and grow? I would think so but can’t find anything written about that. I believe those backgrounds are made from a pliable silicone or plastic and then covered with crushed rock. So I wonder...would the crushed rock eventually turn the same color as the live rock?

Universal Rocks Holey Rock Backgrounds - Universal Rocks 3D Backgrounds


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## gpd605x

I didn't get to paint it, a friend of mine talked me out of it. I'll probably go with a black cling-on type. My tank is about 6" from the wall. The overflow is maybe 3-4" from the wall. It's pretty easy for me to move my tank back and forth from the wall so if I wanted to paint it, it wouldn't be a problem. Working night shift makes it a little hard to do a lot during the day so I haven't checked into the humming issue yet. Hopefully this weekend I'll get up to really checking it out.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I didn't get to paint it, a friend of mine talked me out of it. I'll probably go with a black cling-on type. My tank is about 6" from the wall. The overflow is maybe 3-4" from the wall. It's pretty easy for me to move my tank back and forth from the wall so if I wanted to paint it, it wouldn't be a problem. Working night shift makes it a little hard to do a lot during the day so I haven't checked into the humming issue yet. Hopefully this weekend I'll get up to really checking it out.


I work nights too. And how do you move your tank so easily?


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## gpd605x

Slide it across the tile floor.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Slide it across the tile floor.


Ahh...I see. Wish I could do that.


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## gpd605x

It's been a while since I've done an update.... Haven't had any issues lately. Had some hair algea but took care of that with some water changes. Just cleaned the glass really well and re-aquascaped for my new addition coming Saturday. 
I really need to get a background lol

Here's what I'm getting  Can't remember what it's called but its $40

He also has a Toadstool, I really like that one too but I think I'll stay with the polyps for my first soft coral, the guy is selling it for $60 (its the big one on the left) 


In ya'll's seasoned experience, what would be easier? The Toadstool or the Green Polyp?


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## gpd605x

Just bought this, should be here Tuesday
1300gph Ciculator


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## Sully

The green polyp is a zoanthid. Either should be fairly easy but the toadstool will require higher lighting than the zoa. Hard to tell size on the toadstool but 60 seems a bit high on price. 40 for the zoa also seems a bit steep but if you're confident they're coming from a healthy system, have fun.


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## Reefing Madness

I agree with Sully.
They look good though, thats a good thing. For $60, hopefully that Toadstool is of good size.


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## gpd605x

Yea, I'm going to try talk him down. He seems like great guy, he said he's also going to give me a few frags. Not sure which ones but he said they are free.

Here's his tank

Here's another shot of the toadstool


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## Reefing Madness




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## gpd605x

*55g SW, Corals Coming Soon!*

Curious...can a Clown host in a toadstool? I've seen pictures of them in them but was just curious


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## Reefing Madness

Clown fish will just about hang out in anything.


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## gpd605x

I figured lol, my 3 clowns are like a little family, they are always together and have been great with each other. I've been looking for a little home for them, thinking a bubble nem


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## Reefing Madness




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## Goby

I ended up painting the back of my tank blue and it looks great...even held up when I slid the magnetic power head a little. 

Is the guy local? If you have the opportunity to buy directly from a local hobbyist's tank, advice included, that's a wise move IMO. $40 for those zoas and $60 for that toadstool isn't a bargain, but it's within reason for an established soft colony. Forgoing the cost and stress of shipping has value in and of itself. If he's not local, and you're paying shipping charges with no guarantee...well, just something to think about. Both colonies look great though...nice finds.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I figured lol, my 3 clowns are like a little family, they are always together and have been great with each other. I've been looking for a little home for them, thinking a bubble nem


BTA's are nice but they can be finicky little heartbreakers too. I've never personally found them to be as "easy" as many others claim. I keep them, but not easily. If I were you, I'd give the toadstool a try. I've seen many pictures of clowns hosting toadstools. 

If you do get a BTA, I'd like to suggest a good sized one...at least 5-6 inches to host 3 clowns. The bigger the better as clowns sometimes play rough with a new nem. They seem to eventually settle down IME. I'd keep the clowns off the nem the first couple days so it can properly catch a wave. Your flow and water quality will be the key to your nems initial success. The combination of proper lighting will be the key to long term success. There's no reason to believe your lights can't support a BTA...they can. I've learned to not feed my nems for about a week after acclimation...some never. I've come to believe that feeding nems is overdone. If/when you do feed a nem...chop the food into fine pieces. 

FYI- I've never had an Ocellaris host a BTA even while living within inches of several BTA's for long periods of time. I know of others who have had success with Ocellaris' and BTA's though. I've had skunk clowns host BTA's almost instantly.


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## gpd605x

I finally got a background. It's reversible so if i get tired of the black, I can change it to blue. Everyone went into the tank great. The guy I bought the polyps from is a great guy. He gave me a little rock w/ 3-4 polyps on it, 2 mushrooms and some red thing lol. There was also a little star fish attached to the polyps that I bought so an added little bonus. The guy said he also has a few more frags for me that I can have. He said he loves helping people getting started in corals. Also bought some Mysis Shrimp, I'm cutting the cubes up into 3rd's to start out. 
On to the pictures!

Here's what I bought and the little star fish. I saw him moving when I put it in but haven't seen it since.

It also "jumped" of the rock I placed it on down into the gravel.

Here's the freebies he gave me...


x2 of these

[URL=http://s90.photobucket.com/user/admrl20/media/Aquarium%20Photos/null_zps9c94b3a1.jpg.html]







[/URL]


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## coralbandit

Starfish looks like astaria.If it is(check them out) catch it and kill it before you have thousands.Some eat corals,all are pest.


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## Goby

Nice!

I love LOVE thick juicy mushrooms like that, and the red thing is a palys of some type…maybe a People Eater, not sure. I have a couple different types of palys and they always look nice and are forgiving when I screw something up. They form new polyps quickly. And that’s a nice sized zoa colony too. 

The little star is likely a species of Asterina. There are many different species of those little stars. I have a few Asterina in my tank. They hitch hiked in on the live sand I bought from Petco a couple years ago. Mine seem to be algae and/or detritus eaters. I’ve rarely if ever seen them on my coral. Some people consider them beneficial and seek them for their tanks as part of their CUC, while others despise them. I’ve been told that the brightly colored pink and purple Asterina stars will consume corals of similar color…that makes sense. Mine are pale colored...mostly tans. They have not multiplied quickly, although I’ve read some can. I started with 3 and there might be 4-5 in my tank now. 

You’re off to a great start!


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## gpd605x

Thanks! I hope to get a nem or something for my clowns. My powerhead came in today too so I just put it on the opposite side of the tank at the same level and pointed them to each other.


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## gpd605x

Here's the powerhead I bought, its 1300gph. Got it off eBay for $25. I need to get another one to replace my other old powerhead. I did notice though after I put the new one in that the fish tend to stay on the other side of the tank. Not sure if that means its too powerful or what.


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## coralbandit

Try it on a timer during lighting cycle(on/off every 15 minutes).The fish will be more comfortable with that IMO.


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## gpd605x

Where do I need to look for a timer? or whatever its called lol


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## Goby

I recently purchased the same power heads, also off eBay, except I got the dual heads. For what it's worth, all my power heads blow either against the glass (at an angle, not directly), or upward to create a significant ripple on the water's surface. This allows the power heads to produce swirls of water and wave-like motion rather than straight currents.


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## coralbandit

Lowes or HD will have timers.Look for one that has "tabs" all the way around ,not just pins for on/off.The tabs get pushed/pulled and can turn P.H. on/off every 15 minutes.I run all my hydors/powerheads this way.
Goby is on track also as diffusing by hitting glass is definately another option.
I like my "extra" flow off when my lights turn off.I know this is not how it is in nature,BUT?


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## gpd605x

Ah.. Got ya. I'll point em to the glass. Should I point them both to the front or have one to the front and 1 to the back?


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## Goby

You may need to watch how your corals react to flow changes and then tweak the current accordingly. If your zoas stop opening...they may be getting to much wind. Mushrooms need a soft steady current to feed. In my experience, fish tend to go with the flow. 

And Coralbandit gave great advice when he suggested timed current. One of my powerheads only runs when my lights are on. And the better power heads offer built in timing that promotes alternating currents. I've been eyeing this power head for awhile...

Taam Mini Polario 10ml Low Voltage Bi Directional Water Pump | eBay


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## gpd605x

I may have to get a timer for it. I mean it seems to be blowing fine and my corals are not being blasted. I placed the corals on rocks but both polyps "jumped" off the rocks and into the substrate. Not sure why. I guess they will roam till they find their happy spot. I really need to get 2 bta's for the clowns. I kind of feel bad for them, before I re-arranged the rocks, they all had a nice little spot where they would actually lay on the rocks and "sleep". It was really cool to see. Now they just hang out on one side and don't venture off to the other side too much unless I'm feeding. 

Here's a iPhone shot of one "sleeping". It's kinda dark but you can see him.


Here's where everyone seems to be hanging out now since adding the powerhead


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## Goby

Zoas, palys, and mushrooms are sessile inverts, so I don't believe they jumped. Also, I don't believe any of the above can do summersaults like a tree coral. In my opinion, if they moved it was likely via the current. My advice would be to place them in medium light, preferably indirect, within a slow steady current.

I totally get your desire to keep anemones. I'm obsessed with the creatures and have right around 30 nems of different species. Among other things, it takes a mature system w/ briskly soft multidirectional flow to keep an anemone healthy. I could write a book on anemone failure. Through failure, a mature system, and a stubborn nature...I'm finally starting to successfully keep the most fascinating creature of the sea, (IMO). For me, there's nothing more rewarding in SW aquaria than symbiotic relationships...and clowns/nems are my favorite. 

If you do decide to get an anemone and you REALLY want a BTA, (would not be my choice for a first nem)...unless they are certain clones, I'd hesitate to get 2 at the same time. I'd start with one large greenish/brownish BTA. A small fancy rose BTA w/ 3 clowns will fail. A large green BTA with 3 clowns will be stressed enough to split so you'll end up with a pair anyway. And keep notes regarding your nems appearance and behavior...including daily pictures.


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## gpd605x

What nem would you recommend? I honestly have no idea what I should get. I do have a rather large Hermit Crab that likes to crawl and 3 smaller herms. I came home and it was tipped over upright like that so I wasn't sure what caused it. Both of the polyps did that so I just wasn't sure. I had the mushrooms on a rock but I guess the current was too strong for them so they unattached and moved into the substrate too.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> What nem would you recommend? I honestly have no idea what I should get. I do have a rather large Hermit Crab that likes to crawl and 3 smaller herms. I came home and it was tipped over upright like that so I wasn't sure what caused it. Both of the polyps did that so I just wasn't sure. I had the mushrooms on a rock but I guess the current was too strong for them so they unattached and moved into the substrate too.


Hermits pick through corals looking for lodged fish food. If any crab is hungry enough, they'll consume coral however I've personally not had that experience and I keep a few good sized hermits too. It's quite possible your hermits knocked your corals over. It sux that your mushroom unattached from it's rock. It's been my experience that it's tough to get a unlatched single shroom to stay put. After unlatching from their rock (likely knocked loose during shipment or blown off by current), I've then selected what I thought would be a safe alternative within a hole of a rock, only to have the current blow/suck them out. More than once, I've lost a single mushroom solely because I couldn't get it to stay anywhere long enough to reattach. And it seems each time they'd get blown around and handled and placed elsewhere, they would decline a little more. So I bought this...

Oceans Wonders Purple Coralline Reef Safe Epoxy | eBay

...and it's been a good plan B for Corals Gone Wild. Same thing goes for a single zoa or palys polpy...justa pain when they let go.

A good first experience anemone, IMO, is a rock anemone. They are forgiving and beautiful. I recommend this guy...

Rock Anemone 5 Pack Large 3 5" Flower Anemone | eBay

...he dives for the nems himself and only charges $18 to ship 5 bags, (not including fish). He'll even ship 3-4 nems in a single bag leaving room for other creatures to be shipped as well. His stuff comes via 2nd day priority mail which I've personally always had great luck with. I've even had marine life from him in transit for 3 days arrive perfectly healthy. This particular link is for 5 anemones that will look NOTHING like the picture in the auction. I have no idea why he keeps using that picture to advertise his nems. They will be much more beautiful than that...mostly whites creams and tans but trust me, gorgeous just the same. He'll sell 3 very brightly colored nems, usually green/white, yellow/white etc for $30...just send him a message. His website is Fin-Addict Aquatic Collections I've not been so crazy about his shipping methods at times. If I were you I'd remind him that you expect your nems to have more protection than the cardboard box they're shipped in. Sexy and Pederson shrimp will host those nems and that's fun to see. You simply can't go wrong with a rock nem and if you can keep them alive then I'd consider trying a BTA. For what it's worth, I've had skunk clowns host rock nems and I have one misbar ocellaris clown that will host a rock nem off and on. It's not unheard of but rare for a clownfish to host them consistently. If you buy from that guy, Chris,...consider filling 5 bags with marine critters to get your monies worth out of the $18 shipping charge. He has some fun stuff...lots more that what's listed on eBay...check out his site. Sometimes you have to order a week in advance and then he'll go out and get your stuff.


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## gpd605x

I'll have to check his page out. The "5 Pack" does that mean your getting 5 rock nems for that price or what?


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I'll have to check his page out. The "5 Pack" does that mean your getting 5 rock nems for that price or what?


Yes, it's a great deal.


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## gpd605x

Sweet. I really need to work on getting an RO/DI Unit or a large container to get water from my LFS. With my sump, I've noticed the water has evaporated more so than before. I've got rust colored stuff everywhere and I know its gotta be from my water. I need to have someone come over and check to make sure everything is set up for optimum performance. I'm also thinking about getting rid of the crushed coral substrate and going w/ sand...


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Sweet. I really need to work on getting an RO/DI Unit or a large container to get water from my LFS. With my sump, I've noticed the water has evaporated more so than before. I've got rust colored stuff everywhere and I know its gotta be from my water. I need to have someone come over and check to make sure everything is set up for optimum performance. I'm also thinking about getting rid of the crushed coral substrate and going w/ sand...


Ultra Green Anemones 3 Pack Rock Flower Anemones 3 4" | eBay

Here's an example of his green rock nems.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> Sweet. I really need to work on getting an RO/DI Unit or a large container to get water from my LFS. With my sump, I've noticed the water has evaporated more so than before. I've got rust colored stuff everywhere and I know its gotta be from my water. I need to have someone come over and check to make sure everything is set up for optimum performance. I'm also thinking about getting rid of the crushed coral substrate and going w/ sand...


I use sea water for rare water changes and I buy RO water. I really need to get a RO unit too. How come you want to change your substrate? I don't know much about different substrates but I like the live sand I have very much. It's made by Natures Ocean and it's the black variety. It always looks clean and blends nicely with about everything.


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## gpd605x

I guess the sand seems more natural... I've got a bunch of copper/rust colored stuff everywhere so I really need to get that under control. Lately its been kind of a headache. My water is clear but rust colored crap is all over the tank. I'm sure it has a lot to do with my poor water quality and I really want to "rock scape" and make it look more natural. 

I also found these things on my decorations that I removed from the tank. Anyone know what they are? I removed them like 2 weeks ago, they weren't on any LR, they were just on the decorations


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## coralbandit

Pineapple sponges,no problems with them.


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## Reefing Madness

coralbandit said:


> Pineapple sponges,no problems with them.


Agreed


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## Sully

I'm curious about this rust colored water. During my last couple feedings, when I scoop out tank water to mix up the food, I notice this kind of brown rust colored substance in there. The tank water is clear, this is only on the surface. ANy ideas what this is? Never had it before.


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## Goby

Sully said:


> I'm curious about this rust colored water. During my last couple feedings, when I scoop out tank water to mix up the food, I notice this kind of brown rust colored substance in there. The tank water is clear, this is only on the surface. ANy ideas what this is? Never had it before.


Maybe a diatom bloom? Google _Diatom Cause and Diatom Prevention_. It's actually an expected occurrence in new builds and tends to run it's course without intervention. Diatoms can suddently appear or even be ongoing in established systems if nitrates and phosphates are excessive.


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## Goby

gpd605x said:


> I guess the sand seems more natural... I've got a bunch of copper/rust colored stuff everywhere so I really need to get that under control. Lately its been kind of a headache. My water is clear but rust colored crap is all over the tank. I'm sure it has a lot to do with my poor water quality and I really want to "rock scape" and make it look more natural.
> 
> I also found these things on my decorations that I removed from the tank. Anyone know what they are? I removed them like 2 weeks ago, they weren't on any LR, they were just on the decorations


By the looks of those pics, you're system is doing awesome. Great job.


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## Reefing Madness

Sully said:


> I'm curious about this rust colored water. During my last couple feedings, when I scoop out tank water to mix up the food, I notice this kind of brown rust colored substance in there. The tank water is clear, this is only on the surface. ANy ideas what this is? Never had it before.


Sounds like a build up of proteins at the surface for some reason. Got the power heads breaking up the surface enough?


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## Sully

It's sitting about 4 inches under the surface and hits the surface about 2/3 rds of the way down the tank. I've never moved cept the time you had me about 2 weeks after initial tank set-up which was over 7 months ago. SHould I just give it a surface skim with a mesh net?



Reefing Madness said:


> Sounds like a build up of proteins at the surface for some reason. Got the power heads breaking up the surface enough?


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## Reefing Madness

Interesting. Maybe break up the surface a bit more usin the powereheads. That shouldn happen unless you got something spawing on you.


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## gpd605x

coralbandit said:


> Pineapple sponges,no problems with them.


Ok thanks! They seem to only be on the remaining decor that isn't LR. 

I figured it was a diatom bloom since I moved it and pretty much started over. Thanks guys!


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## gpd605x

Ordered another powerhead a few days ago, should be here this week. Also, got some more free frags! Not sure what they are called but hey, its a start!


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