# Problem with my tank, fish dying like crazy!



## ArieB (Mar 15, 2015)

Hello everybody
I am having a serious issue with my tank.

First a little background.
My wife bought for my birthday ( Feb 14th) a 20 gallon fish tank.
It was one of those packages with lights, filter etc.etc.

I set it up, and began to read about having a fish tank.
Luckily it was to late to buy fish because I read about cycling your tank.
Unfortunately I received fish the next day as a present.

3 sunburst platties and 3 black fin tetra's.
I put them in, although I really didn't want too, but what can you do?

I monitored the tank and saw the tank go through the cycle.
Lucky enough the fish did survive.

Currently the water is o.k.
I clean the tank twice a week and do a 10% water change each time.
I especially bought two 2-gallon buckets and a vacuum.
One for the dirty water and one for clean water that has been standing for 24 hours.

Last week my wife bought me three new plants and three peppercorn catfish as an Easter gift.
I also picked up some fish food from the same store.

Last Tuesday I noticed some fluffy stuff sticking to the marble and plants and wondered what it was.
Google told me that it was from over feeding.

As far as I know, and I am a rookie, you should feed not more then that the fish eat in 3-4 minutes.
Mine dive on to it and the food is gone before I can even blink.

I do notice that certain color flakes are not being eaten.
The fish nibble on it, and spit it out again.
It wasn't a big surprise to see that fluffy stuff centered around those flakes.
I cleaned the tank, removed as much fluffy stuff as I could and began to feed them less.

Yesterday when I got home from work, I noticed something weird with one of my catfish.
It was kinda "hanging" upside down ( belly up, back down).
I wondered what was wrong, but then it turned around again and began to swim.

It was as if it had gotten a turbo boost or something.
It raced to the surface, dove down again, swam like a maniac through the tank (scaring the other fish).
Then it began "floating".
It just swayed down through the water to the bottom but was still alive.
It swam around again, did some more floating, swam around etc.

I knew it was dying, and when it began to hit the driftwood during it's floating and didn't respond to it, I knew that there was nothing I could do, so I took him out of the tank.

I was a bit scared after this incident and kept an eye on my tank.
Within 2 hours!!! my other two catfish died, and all in the same weird way?

Later on that evening I noticed that one of the platties was dead as well.
I began to wonder if there was something wrong with the catfish?
Some bacteria or something? or maybe with the new plants? or the new food?

This evening I missed one of my platties and one tetra,
both had died as well.

So that's 6 fish in a 24 hour period????
I'm now freaking out for my remaining 3 fish.

Here is what I currently have.

20 gallon tank with marble on the bottom, some plants and tropical driftwood.

This are the results from a testing strip BEFORE I cleaned the tank today.

Nitrate is 20 (safe according to my test kit)
Nitrite is between .5 and 1.0 ( caution)
Hardness between 150 and 300 (hard to very hard)

My tab water is already hard by itself, that's why I bought tropical driftwood, it's suppose to help with that.

Chlorine 0 to 0.5 (safe)
Alkalinity 0 to 40 (low)
pH 6.2 to 6.8 (acid to neutral)

My questions are:

What happened with my fish?
6 dying in 24 hours?

The problems I have started AFTER I got the catfish, plants and new food.
All bought at the same store.

The fluffy stuff?
Never saw it before until last Tuesday.

Could it be that the catfish, or plants, had some disease?

I really could use some advice cause I'm not sure what is going on.
Is it over feeding? is my water not right? is it the food itself?
a bacteria?

I'm clueless.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Welcome to the site. Showing that much nitrite is a hint that the tank isn't cycled completely. Do you have a reading for ammonia? The test strips can be off by a bit and not give an accurate reading. You need to get a liquid test kit that will show ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Also a ph test.

Do not add anymore fish for awhile. Start doing 50% water change weekly. More often if necessary. Fish dying in a new tank can be caused by many things. Cycling with fish if you don't do enough water changes to keep the toxins down will shorten their life span a lot. Acclimation of new fish can also be a cause if it isn't done right especially if the tank water is different than the water in the tanks from which the fish came from.

How much cleaning are you doing to your filter? An over clean filter can cause your tank to recycle. The fungus your seeing on the rocks is most likely food. If the fish aren't eating all of it. Feed less. I feed mine every other day because there is so many that I do tend to overfeed.

Also it is best when getting new fish to add to what you already have it is best to quarantine the new fish at least for a couple of weeks in a separate tank.


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## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

you mentioned using 24h old water to add to the tank, but you didn't mention any dechlorinator...yes chlorine in drinking water will off gas after a while, but chloramine (another common water additive) will not, this needs to be treated with Prime or some other product. otherwise you will be restarting the cycle with every water change


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, sorry to hear you're having issues and have had so many casualties. We all learned the hard way, at one point or another. New tanks have a steep learning curve that accompany them.

Your fish might be suffering from any number of ailments, but as stated a large water change on a weekly basis can really help, as will using Prime or another tap water conditioner to remove chloramine as well as chlorine. The white fuzz is indeed mold/rot that could be causing an ammonia spike and, coupled with excessive filter/tank cleaning, can cause your tank to re-cycle constantly, to the detriment of your fish.

I change 50% (5 gallons) of water once weekly in my tank, I clean my filter maybe once every 3 months, and I feed maybe twice a week. The way I see it is - Fish don't eat every day in the wild, they sure don't need to in a fish tank either.

Hope this helps!


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## ondoa (Feb 8, 2015)

Also I think that putting in enough food that the fish will consume in 3-4 mins. is way too much. I suppose it depends on they type of fish, but I would say feeding 2x daily is plenty, and only what they will consume in about 30 seconds.


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## strat85 (Mar 31, 2015)

Sounds like great advice so far. I am quite new as well, but did a lot of reading up in the process of getting my tank ready. The liquid test kit is definitely the way to go, especially starting out. I did a fishless cycle, so I was testing water quite frequently and believe I was getting the most accurate results that I could with that kit.

Where did you get your plants? Were they the Topfin plants in a tube from Petsmart or another big box store? I ask because I purchased a java fern like that and shortly after planting in my tank I noticed a white fuzz around the base of my plant. Of course being new and ignorant, I assumed the worst. It seemed to go away after a week or so and I haven't seen it return. I'm not sure if this is the same thing you are seeing.


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## ArieB (Mar 15, 2015)

Thanks everyone.

I don't have a reading on the ammonia levels, but will pick up a proper test kit asap

I clean my filter once a month.
It's a filter with a little bag with carbon.
First time I changed it was after a month.
I noticed that the water was getting cloudy and couldn't figure out why.
After I cleaned the filter and exchanged the baggy with carbon, the water turned O.K in a few hours.

Now I try to beat the "cloudy-ness" by changing it a bit sooner.

I don't have prime or anything.
I do add some liquid with bio supplement stuff.

I don't feed them food that they will eat in 3-4 minutes.
It was something that I read somewhere.

I feed them twice a day a small amount.
They dove on it right away and it was gone within half a minute.

I did notice that after I switched from one brand to another that there was a lot of waste.
Could it have been that they didn't liked the new brand?

I did bought the first plants from Pet-Smart, but wasn't happy with them.
It was just a small amount which seem to die anyway.

After that I bought bigger bunches at a local pet store with a huge fish department.
I talked to the guy first, and he seems to know what he is talking about.

Yesterday morning I noticed that my 2 remaining black fin tetra's were slowly turning white. The "black" on their fins almost disappeared.

I thought about taking them out the tank, so that they wouldn't have to suffer from ammonia poisoning anymore.
But, since they seemed to be o.k. I decided to wait till I got home from work to see if things were improving.

Slowly the black is coming back again.

I am so glad I have found this site.
There are so many things I don't know about this.
I did some research but I guess you always keep on learning.


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## strat85 (Mar 31, 2015)

You say you don't use Prime but add some bio liquid. Are you talking about the bacteria in a bottle products? These are generally used to help cycle a tank, although from what I gather people have very mixed results with it. Those products however do not dechlorinate. If you still have chlorine in your water, that will cause your problems. Additionally, it will kill your beneficial bacteria and your tank will have to cycle again. This is why when you clean your filter you use water removed from your tank and not tap water. Prime dechlorinates and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite. It's worth picking some up.


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## ondoa (Feb 8, 2015)

Absolutely get some Prime or some other dechlorinator, or else you will be defeating the whole water change program. Every time you change your water , if you don't add dechlorinator, the chlorine in the tap water will kill the bacteria that control the ammonia. You will essentially be starting with an uncycled tank after each water change.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Your Black Tetras are black skirt tetras, they were probably showing some stress. Also, Black skirts will turn paler as they age. Hope you have your problem solved by now. Keeping fish is such a rewarding hobby.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Please don't change your filter media so often - beneficial bacteria need to colonize your filter so they can get to work processing the ammonia and nitrite so those two compounds don't kill your fish. Every time you change the media, you're throwing out good bacteria colonies. The cloudiness you were seeing is a bacteria bloom as they try and colonize the tank. Also, you really don't need to use carbon - the only real benefit of carbon is it helps your tank smell better, but does little else aside from cost you money. I haven't used carbon in my filter in years.


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## Waterworlds (Apr 12, 2015)

Gizmo took the words right out if my mouth! Throwing away your filter media is never going to get you a cycled tank. You don't need carbon. Buy some plain filter media and add it now so it can be built up next time your current carbon filter needs to go in the can.

Without beneficial bacteria in your aquarium (throwing everything away once a month), you will have to do daily water changes if 50% with fish in to get it cycled. Expect a big nitrate spike within a few weeks after your api master test kit reads 0s; test everyday. The bacteria that's good lives in the filter media and decorations. It's not really in the water.

I'm guessing you had higher ratings than the test strips showed and that your ammonia was really high and so was nitrate and nitrite. That's what probably killed your fish.

We change 50% water once a week. I also feed lightly twice daily.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

As said above, you need to get the API Master Freshwater Test Kit, and some Prime. The strips do not have a test for ammonia. With a tank that is not cycled (or continuing to lose its cycle because of filter media replacement) the test kit will guide you as to water changes until you can keep a fully cycled tank. Any ammonia or nitrite above .25 requires a water change to maintain safe conditions for fish.

I would also think about changing the filter that came with your tank. Is this a Tetra kit? Which filter did it come with? You need both mechanical and bio media, both of which should just be rinsed and cleaned, not tossed. 

I would think about upgrading to an AquaClear 50 filter. This HOB filter is so easy to maintain. I use only the sponges and biomedia and sometimes purigen - no carbon. Some people use all biomedia only. It is not unusual to run 2X the filter capacity or more for a tank. But should you decide to change filters, run both the old and the new until the new one is completely seeded - several weeks at least.


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## ArieB (Mar 15, 2015)

The whole set is a Topfin 20 gallon pack.

Filter is a top fin power filter

I did bought some stuff to take the ammonia out the tank, and an ammonia test kit.

Label says however that the ammonia reading still will show a high ammonia level.

I let the water sit in the tank and didn't do anything until today.
Fish seems to be doing alright.

Today I detoxicated the tab water, sucked up as much "dirt" as I could and did a 50% water change.

I do wonder, after all of your comments, about my filter.
SueD mention the aquaclear filter.

This filters with a special foam right?
So the bacteria would grow in the foam?

But what if I rinse it out, are the bacteria gone?


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## strat85 (Mar 31, 2015)

Your filter should be good for now. There are many filter options out there, but you should be good with what you have for now as far as filtration goes. No chemical you add takes ammonia out of the tank. Prime will help detoxify it, but removal will only be possible with water changes and eventual conversion by your bacteria. 

If your tank is new, I would leave the filter alone and let it collect. If you feel you must rinse it, collect some of your tank water and rinse with that, not water from the tap. Also, if you aren't yet cycled, hold off on vacuuming your gravel. Every surface in your tank including your gravel, filter, decorations, glass, etc. are going to hold the bacteria you need to cycle.

If you have the API freshwater master kit, please post your test results. If you are unsure of your results, try taking a tank water sample to your LFS. Most will test your water for free.


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

When you rinse a biofilter, you need to rinse in your treated water. Chlorine and or chloramines kill the bio filter. 

Using ornements with pitted surfaces is also a good way to store up large amounts of beneficial bacteria. Bark, scoria (lava), any surface that is deeply pitted. This can be used as doner material to start a new aquarium as well, but the key word is "surface area". That is one reason sponge filters are so good. Sponges have a lot of surface area.

And ammonia can be neutralized, it cannot be taken out of a tank. You need a dechlorinater. You can never, ever add untreated water to the fish it will kill the bacteria, and the fish. 

Your post is very confusing. You watched the cycle, you say in the first post, but in the second you didn't have an ammonia test kit. 

I hpe you are finding out what you need to know.


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## ArieB (Mar 15, 2015)

The two remaining Tetra's have died as well.
So I have now an empty tank.

@kalyke

I didn't had an ammonia test kit when I got the tank.
I bought a Marineland test strip kit and watched how the nitrate and nitrite levels changed.

I was, and still am a newbee and nobody told me about buying an ammonia test kit.

Now I have bought the API Ammonia test kit as well.
I do have some pitted ornaments, including tropical driftwood.

Question:

My filter has those carbon refills.
Should I do that? or just forget about changing the carbon?

So now my tank is empty accept for some plants and ornaments and the old water. What should I do?

The test results of this morning are:

6 in 1 test strip:

Nitrate = 0-20 mg/l
Nitrite = 0.5 - 1.0 mg/l
Chlorine = 0.5 mg/l
Hardness = 300 ppm
Alkalinity = 0-40 ppm
pH = 6.2

The API Ammonia test kit ( 2 fluids I add to the water ) tells me that the freshwater ammonia (NH3/NH4) is 8 mg/l

Strange that the Ammonia level is so high?
I used the API ammo lock and API tap water conditioner last sunday

Should I just start all over?
Or wait to see what happens?


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

This would be a perfect time to do a fishless cycle. If you can, research fishless cycle. It takes a little while, but is well worth the time. Search the forum, there is an article of fishless cycle that is very good. Hope all goes well for you.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

ArieB said:


> The whole set is a Topfin 20 gallon pack.
> 
> Filter is a top fin power filter
> 
> ...


The filters like the Aqua Clears with separate sponges (mechanical & biological filtration) and ceramic media (biological filtration) allow you to better rinse off any of the "gunk" that gets collected in there which can cause water quality issues and hamper flow through the filter. They do not have to be replaced for a very, very long time if maintained (couple of years, even). Carbon (chemical filtration) will remove certain impurities and medicines when needed, but this is time lmited (1-3 months) as far as its effectiveness. The beneficial bacteria will actually colonize on each of these, but the best places are on the sponges and biomedia. Rinsing in dechlorinated water will not harm the beneficial bacteria. Many people use old tank water - I don't.

With the cartridges like you have, they are primarily mechanical filtration (the cartridge bag itself) and chemical (the carbon), although there will be biological filtration happening also and the bacteria colonize on the filter bag and carbon. Often there is a plastic piece of some sort that claims to be the biological filtration. I don't think the cartridge bags hold up very long which is why instructions tell you to replace these often. But when you do, you are removing all of your biological goodies. Most people do not use carbon on a regular basis for cost effective reasons (needs replacement often) and it is not really necessary, unless you are trying to remove medicines you have dosed. 

I don't know this filter, but depending on the design of the compartment, you could try to use Aqua Clear sponges and biomedia in there, rather than the tetra cartridges. Also, here's a quick article on the types of filtration going on in a tank.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Filtratio...-Biological-and-Chemical-Filtration&id=337139


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

I certainly understand. The person I learned from had never heard about the nitrogen cycle, nor did he ever test anything. When I first read the nitrogen cycle explainations you see on the web, it was all bla-bla-bla to me and I had to read it about 20 times to figure it out and see it actually was important. People who sell fish tanks, filters and fish want to make a sale, not tell you to have an empty tank in your house for 3 months. Most of us are used to easy set up kits so we expect the thing working the day we bought it. Waiting is a lost art, but aquarium people must learn how to wait.


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