# Trying to cycle, ammonia never drops



## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

I bought a 1.5 gallon tank early this year without really knowing what I would keep in it. I read everything I could get my hands on about the nitrogen cycle, then attempted to fishless-cycle the tank--not once, but THREE times over several months, during which time the ammonia never dropped and there were never nitrites or nitrates present. When I unexpectedly inherited some fish, I said "what the heck" and put them in the uncycled tank. It's been very taxing on me keeping the water parameters good for them, and I eventually got a five gallon hex tank to solve the problem, thinking that the 1.5 gallon had simply been too small to cycle. But it's been three weeks, and the ammonia level has still not dropped. If the tank size was not to blame, then I have no idea why I am unable to breed the necessary bacteria.

Here is some additional info: I do not have a heater or airstone in either tank. The 5 gallon has a bio wheel and a carbon filter, while the 1.5 gallon has a small canister filter with a sponge. I kept both tanks mostly covered with a breathable, chenille blanket while trying to cycle, and my ammonia source was pure ammonia with no surfactants. I treated the water with Aquasafe before adding it to either tank. Our tap water is a little on the soft side, with neutral pH. I have gravel substrate in both tanks, about 5 lbs in the 5 gal, and 2.5 lbs in the 1.5 gal. The plants in both are artificial. Right now, the 5 gal. reads about 4 ppm of ammonia. Alkalinity is 80 (moderate) with no nitrites or nitrates.

Perhaps if I give every detail of my setups, someone with more experienced eyes than mine can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'd appreciate any insight at all into this mystery.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I am not a fan of trying to start a cycle using Ammo, usually never get it right. Anyway, the only thing I am missing here is source water. What are your readings on your source water? And, cycles usually last up to 6 weeks.


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for the interest, R.M.

I did mention the source water up there somewhere in that long-winded post. I'm getting it from our tap water, which comes from our city. (Well, technically our lake, but you know what I mean.) Straight from the tap it reads with neutral pH and just a little bit soft, as I said. The one thing I can add to that is that I know it contains no ammonia.

As an update: I tested the new tank water again tonight, and none of the readings have changed. Ammonia still holds at 4ppm. I'm giving it a month to show me some sign (however small) that it will eventually cycle. And it's Day 21 now. (You hear that, tank? You've been warned.)


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

*pc


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## harveya (Aug 12, 2011)

Are you keeping fish with ammonia level of 4ppm? What fish are they and how much are you feeding?


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

No, Harveya, sorry about the confusion. The 1.5 gal tank currently holds the fish. They are glowlight tetras, and I would never try to cycle with them. --Although--their conditions are less than ideal, which is why I'm preparing the 5 gal tank for them. That's the one that has 4 ppm ammonia. 

My little fishes will be much happier with more space and a couple more tank mates, and most of all a cycled tank. This last one is important, because, while I am able to do frequent water changes and use AmmoniaSafe to keep ammonia levels low, I shouldn't have to. As all you more experienced aquarists know, the difference between low ammonia and NO ammonia is huge, if you are a fish. *frown


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## harveya (Aug 12, 2011)

Have you seeded with live bacteria? There are a few different products on the market. I am not a fan of stress zyme. Aquarium complete is very good. These product are not needed but it will speed up the cycle. Have you put any media in the 5gal from the 1.5gal? it will also speed up the process. I have never done a fishless cycle so i have no first hand knowledge of cycling this way.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Just thorw some Ammo Lock in there and call it a day.


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

Harveya, I'd truly like to do as you suggest and put some good media in there from the small tank, but the small one isn't cycled, so I don't guess I have any good stuff growing in there.

@Reefing Madness: You sound so confident about that! Ammo lock, was it? I went ahead and Googled it since I've never heard of it. Is it similar to Tetra's AmmoniaSafe? Because that's what I've been using between water changes in the 1.5 gallon tank.

I am wary of relying on a product like that, since logic would tell us that it must build up in the tank water over time. Or is it more like something that would allow a person to cycle the tank while it contains delicate fish? I'm really curious about it.

Oh, and I almost forgot about this, but I used Stress Zyme in a couple of my attempts to cycle the small tank, with no results. One of the mods at another forum I used to go to contemptuously informed me that products like that (if they can even be trusted to contain live cultures) probably don't contain the same bacteria found in your home, and they actually stall the process by competing with the bacteria that would otherwise flourish. Then again, some people swear by these products. Its all very confusing. I didn't have results with Stress Zyme, but then again, I didn't have results with *anything*.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Really want to know what I think.....Dump it and start over, you've thrown to much crap into the tank. Start from scratch and don't mess with nature, it will take care of itself. Throw in some rock or drift wood, substrate and leave it alone.


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## rw5579 (Jun 27, 2011)

Hang in there, my ten gallon finally finished a fishless cycle this week, was nearly an eight week process... but totally worth it, just picked up a pair of Electric Blue Rams this evening


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey - it's me - Holly..... "Holly of the longest fishless cycle ever" lol. (At least that's what ppl on here have dubbed me after a 20g tank took 8 weeks to cycle.)

First - AmmoLock is going to completely halt the cycling process. You WANT to build up ammonia so that the Nitrite bacteria grows, then the Nitrate bacteria grows. Using AmmoLock will just get rid of the ammonia you are dosing into the tank... therefore rendering all your work pointless....

I recently did a fishless cycle on a 36g tank and it took 3 weeks.

It's important to have the heat up to 86 or so, because that helps the bacteria grow faster. Lots of aeration is important too, so an air stone will help, plus keep the water level about 2 inches from the top of the tank - the lower water will be aerated more when the water falls into the tank from the filter.

Seed the tank with as much seed material as you can. (See if you can get a handful of gravel from a LFS. Put some in a nylon stocking in your filter to help seed the filter. Put some in a nylon stocking and leave it on the floor of the tank to help seed the gravel with bacteria.) As much seed material as you can get will help you out! Even decorations from an established tank will help.

Also dosing the tank with live bacteria helps if you can find some.

If you don't have live plants in the tank, keep the lights off so you don't grow algae during the cycle.

When my 20g wouldn't cycle, Jrman83 (on this forum too) told me to dose the tank with ammonia every day with out fail. It eventually worked. With the 36g I ended up only having to dose every other day because that cycle just happened to be faster.

Live plants can also help cycle. Fill it with as many plants as you can afford. Fast growing plants like Wisteria and Hygro difformis and other stem plants. You can still use straight ammonia, but you will have to dose at a lower level - around 2ppm - so you don't burn the plants. You will also have to have the lights on for some of the day so the plants can get enough light.

I hope some of this helps. Good luck!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Definitely stop adding any chemicals that knock out ammonia. It messes up the whole process. You definitely need temps in the 80s range. Colder water will prolong the cycle as well. The biggest thing is patience. Cycles can take a while and the size of the tank has nothing to do with it.


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I'm no longer trying to cycle the 1.5 gallon, but it sounds as if the reason I had to give up was because I'd just tried too many different things.

As for the 5 gal....luckily I didn't do anything to it yet besides dechlorinate it. If I wasn't so strapped for cash right now, I'd try a heater to speed things up. That sounds like a good idea. But what I think I will do is go down to the pet shop and see if they can give me any seeded material.


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

Update: I went to the pet shops around here, and they said they don't like to give seeded material. A couple said it was because they want to minimize risk of spreading harmful bacteria (a.k.a. they want to cover their backsides so people can't come in and claim they got an outbreak from them), which is silly, because they sell fish, which also spread contagion.

Anyway, I opted for a heater instead, which wasn't as pricey as I'd thought. I got a little 25 watt and put it in my 5 gallon. It seems to heat pretty well. This morning I tested the ammonia and thought the test liquid looked juuuuust a tad lighter than usual. But I'm probably just seeing what I want to see, because nitrites are still zero.

[sigh] I'll keep waiting. Maybe a heater will make a difference. Incidently, how high can I crank it up before it would actually harm the bacteria?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It just depends on how cool the room it is in? You don't really need to keep the heater higher than 80 to cycle the tank. What is your ammonia source again?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I kept mine at 84-86 degrees when I cycled.... but as long as it's at least 80 (like Ben said) you should be fine.


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## NeptuneStar (Aug 18, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> What is your ammonia source again?


I added pure ammonia. Would it help at all to add a pinch of fish flakes? It seems like I read a long time ago that nitrifying bac needs a little bit of phosphates to survive.


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