# 120 fowlr setup



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So I've gone in a different direction with my 120(4x2x2).Origanally it housed my breeding discus,then I switched it to salt and put 2 snowflake clowns in it.Had "a slight mis hap" 2 weeks ago;a timer(plugged in) fell into sump(YIKES)!I must have arrived just in the nick of time as the lights were still on and smoke was just starting to rise!As I went frantically to unplug timer my power strip shut it down(thank goodness,and hence I think it happened right before I came into room.)I still unplugged it and pulled it out of water to have brown crappy (probably poisonous )water drip out of timer.I threw the timer out and went back to tank.
Here's a question I have wondered about before(not my first electrical mishap),but it seemed the turbo snails and limpets were immediately "effected" by the surge of electricity(they all died).The clownfish however were uneffected,at that time and still today seem fine.I removed the clowns and placed them in my 29 slow reef where they still today seem fine and quite happy.How come the snails and limpets couldn't handle the electricity and the fish could? 20 years ago a light fell in my first salt set up and none of the fish were effected either.Is this just some adaption they have,possibly to lightning or am I just lucky twice(besides not getting electrocuted?).
I didn't have a protien skimmer on tank yet so I really thought nothing should be in tank till I could be sure the water was good again.I got another Red Sea C SKIM 1800 and hooked it up to get water right.I ran the tank for the last 10 days and "retested" water quality with turbo snails and limpets again ,besides the api test performed regulary since this tank is fresh.
So now the different direction I'm going with this tank is a semi-aggressive fowlr.The tank has 50lbs. of LR and another 50+ of dreid rock.Friday I purchased a small(10-12 inch,little thicker than a pencil) snowflake morray eel and an orbiculate batfish.The morray loves the tank and has found ever tunnel in the LR and dreid rock and really knows his way around his tunnels already.I feed him frozen prawn on a little spot in front of one of the cave and he comes right out and eats well.The bat(I had one 20+ years ago) eats well and I expect to grow huge.
This a.m. I found a crab shell on top of the LR and must assume he was hiding in the LR and the morray found him(delicous).The tank is cycled as I added sponges from my existing set up and beside "mishap" has been runnig about a month or so(stayed running but I'm sure was no help).
I figured this is my oppurtunity to have some fish that can't go in my 75 or 29 since they are reef with shrimp and everything.Possibly a lionfish in the future will be added ,but I'm open to ideas(I don't think I want triggers),as I'm not looking for aggressive fish but more fish that eat what fits in their mouth(if you know what I mean).
I'll be building a simple sump myself soon and post a thread,the tank is running a good sump now but not much room in it for anything.
I'm curious if anyone has input on electricity and fish,and I'll post pics of the 2 new inhabbitants soon.
Oh yeah,was thinking of adding very thin layer of crushed coral to bottom(tank is bare bottom),but haven't found info on whether this will be bad for morray(he is pretty cool).Probably not going to cover entire bottom but use up the couple pounds I have left over.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So this is how tank looks presently.The brown thing in middle front is the batfish.
The third pic is where I feed the snowflake morray.He is really a pig and can eat quite a bit as this was second feeding this a.m.to photo him,besides the crab I think he found last night.The shrimp are on the right of him in a natural "dish" shaped spot in rock.Seems like a good spot to "train" him to eat at.
Picture 4 is him eating.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I've had a FOWLR, had Lionfish, Snowflake Eel, Spotted Grouper, Porcupine Puffer, Orc Batfish, Pink Tail Trigger( he's alittle less aggressive than some others) Good times whatching those guys eat, specially my tank, I fed live feeder gold fish.
I also had a 2" CC bottom, won't hurt the Eel, no worries, you just don't want the big CC bottom, you want it fine or x-fine.
The electrical part of it is those guys being Inverts, they are more susceptible to distrubances in the water than fish are. Just like water quality, if you had corals I would suspect they would have been dead right with the inverts. But, you never know. Its the grounding thing, you had a huge burst of stray electicity, lil bit longer and it would have grounded itself, thus probably killing everything. Popping the breaker.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So I added what crushed coral I had left over to tank and it makes it across the front 10 inches or so.I have to say the "little" morray is incredibly interesting when he is out of the live rock holes.He has thoroughly explored and found every nook and tunnel there is.Yesterday before feeding he was out and swimming EVERYWHERE,including in and out of my built in overflow!I had already made one of the overflows "escape proof" by using tubing cut length wise to raise upper edge of overflow to glass lid,but the second over flow was not,so in and out he went right in front of my eyes.Fixed that after feeding him and hopefully he can't get in(out of tank) to them anymore.
On another note,what a pig!I already see that This fish will be fairly similiar to a true snake in that he will eat enough to grow all to quickly.I place food (frozen prawn)in the same place for him so he can easily find food,but if any get carried away by currents he is certainly going to find it also.What a scavenger!
I think I'm going to search for sebae monos to join this tank.I hope they will be ok with the bat(actually hope bat will be ok with them?)


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So I added a couple fish this weekend;
First is a polkadot(panther) grouper

A bicolor angel

And a lionfish

The grouper will eat anything including frozen prawn already,and will grow large(over 8 inches,probably much over).The angel will pick on algea and eat frozen offerings,I got him for a splash of color,and like the rest of this tank he could not really go in a reef.And the lion fish.He is small now but is the species(volitan)that grows large.The LFS said he is eating ghost shrimp, but I find he also enjoys small marigold swordtails.It is my mission to train(trick) him into eating frozen eventually.
And finally a full tank shot of the 120 how it looks now;


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Grouper will get to over 20"


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Not while he's with me!I get my LFS owners to agree to take back for cost when they exceed my tank.I hope to get a year or two for the fast growers!


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Just a theory about the electricty affecting your snails and others more then your fish; the complexity or more advanced "heart" in fish may of saved them. Just based on electricity in humans seems to affect those with weekened hearts more then those with healthy hearts and men more then women with the idea being that the heart in women make up a larger part of there mass.May be to far of a jump but food for thought.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Well then God bless those little fish and their big hearts!I know I wouldn't have wanted even my little finger in that water!They really seemed "unphased"(pardon the pun) as they just swam in place,as usaull and have no ill effects since.
Dale you're an electrician I believe? It's amps that have the killing power not volts correct.Power strip kicked it off before breaker but I'm pretty sure that line is only on 15 amps.
It seems like torture to try any kind of experiment,but they sure did better than I would have.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Make sure your top is secure---those morays are escape artists!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

He's to small to dislocate the top right now,but perfect for finding any space no matter how small.Biggest trick was escape proofing the overflows,espescially after watching him swim in and out of one on day 2!He literally checks all surface exits every morning and probably most the night.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

yeah--I lost a couple houdinis...Good Luck


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

He (the morray) hides 90% of the time in the live rock,so every morning if he is not clearly visable I search around the tank and in the filter!
I have full glass cover and have duct taped the plastic back filter cut out part,but as you accurately named him(Houdini) I still give him the benefit of the doubt.If theres a way he will find his way out,no doubt!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Sounds like you have it all secure....


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> Well then God bless those little fish and their big hearts!I know I wouldn't have wanted even my little finger in that water!They really seemed "unphased"(pardon the pun) as they just swam in place,as usaull and have no ill effects since.
> Dale you're an electrician I believe? It's amps that have the killing power not volts correct.Power strip kicked it off before breaker but I'm pretty sure that line is only on 15 amps.
> It seems like torture to try any kind of experiment,but they sure did better than I would have.


It only takes 7 milliamps to stop a human heart, guessing it would be microamps for a fish, thats why gfi protection is crucial for aquariums.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Running with the elctricity theme for the moment my other two salt tanks have titanium grounding rods in them.It's just a metal rod with wire that is attached to outlet cover screw.Do these really help,they're pretty cheap?
Aquarium Safety: Ultra-Ground Titanium Probe


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

My dad just added GFI throughout my tank.....fairly inexpensive...sense of security when it comes to electricity!


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Only problem with grounding rods is if somehow you manage to lose your service neutral or house ground there is a possibility however remote of transient voltage backfeeding through your rod.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Does it(the rod in aquarium) really do anything?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I would say without gfi protection it may help with transient voltages but if your tank is gfi protected the plug if working correctly would react much faster than any grounding probe. As a backup it doesn't hurt to have it if you already own it but I am very skeptical on how much it will actually help, remember it takes 15 amps to trip your breaker by this time whats left alive?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Does it(the rod in aquarium) really do anything?


Only if its connected to a GFCI that your equipment is working off of. The probe is there to lend a way out for stray voltage, but why on earth would you not want to find the issue instead of just letting it out of the tank? GFCI with attached equipment, will stop if it gets to high, then you are able to hunt down the problem piece of equipment and replace it.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

We put in a GFI on one of my outlets that was connected to many others in the basement. You only need one if you existing outlets are connected.. I think I paid around $40 for outlet....


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So I read up on installing GFCI last night.It seems(PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG) that the outlet is really all there is too it?No special wiring configuration or additional lines.I hate to say ,but I feel confident that I'm a competent DYI guy when it comes to most stuff.I have no fear of electricity accept what anyone with common sense would have(it's a killer),and actually took electrical instruction when in high school(some time in the last century after lights were invented).I have sucessfully wired 3 way switches in my house and many other electrical applications.So is it just a matter of switching my regular outlet to a GFCI?
Here's what I read;How to wire a GFCI outlet


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Pretty much, yes. When the GFI gets a spike it kicks out and stops the current.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Will be installing ASAP! All my other tanks in fish room are in series from this very outlet behind the 120 so it will serve a much greater purpose.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, there is a difference in GFI and GFCI. GFI will kick out that outlet, GFCI will kick out whats wired inline with that outlet.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Well, there is a difference in GFI and GFCI. GFI will kick out that outlet, GFCI will kick out whats wired inline with that outlet.


A GFCI and a GFI are the same thing. The terms are interchangeable. They come in different physical mechanisms (GFCI breakers, in line GFCI's, GFCI receptacles, etc.), but they would all perform the same function which is shutting down a circuit when a difference between hot and neutral current is detected. A common cause for this would be water in a receptacle, so they are installed in wet areas likes spas, bathrooms, building exterior, etc.. Either will shut down the rest of the circuit if hooked to the load side of the plug.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I guess it would all depend on how you want to coin the term and how its wired up.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you guys love forums then read this ;GFI vs GFCi - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
Thanks Dale .I'll be installing an outlet not breaker ,and if we Americans aren't totally out of it I'll be checking for the microamps cut out.
I love other forums where they're still allowed to bicker(I really miss beasel).


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Man that stuff drives me nuts.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> Will be installing ASAP! All my other tanks in fish room are in series from this very outlet behind the 120 so it will serve a much greater purpose.


If you get a plug make sure it is the first one in line from the breaker and the rest is put on the load side of the plug. I am not aware of any class b receptacles only breakers but you can check.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I think I get it! Can't believe I thought there was more to this then there is.EVERYONE SHOULD PROTECT THEMSELVES AND EQUIPMENT WITH GFCI! It's water and electricity, no real need to a complicate it! Thanks guys!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

OK so back to fish.Yesterday I got a miniatus grouper.He is pretty colorful and of a decent size(right now)of about 3-4 inches.I know he's an ambush predator but for the time he is hiding like mad and being harrassed by the morray eel!Every other fish in this tank has gone right up into the eels face without issue and even seem to push their luck with him,but possibly due to the groupers urge to hang in caves and under ledges the eel is not so thrilled with him.The eel actually pursues the grouper when they get close to each other.Possibly it is a color thing(kind of thought eel was pretty much blind/or at least poor eyesight),but the grouper is a fairly bright red and the frozen prawn I feed this tank and the eel munches down on is red.I can't even get picture of grouper yet,he really hides well.
On a positive note I got the lion fish to eat his first frozen prawn this a.m.I wiggled individual shrimp with big tweezers and truely got the lionfish interest.He ate two shrimp in like 30 seconds.I had been trying to encourage him by holding out on the live food(swordtails) till later every day but he never even had any interest in the shrimp.I know he will be healthier and live better and longer eating "true" marine food,so this is a good thing.The Miniatus grouper has not eaten yet ,but this is only his first whole day in new home.Hopefully I can get pic of him some time today.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Back to the GFCI.....As some of you know I almost lost my entire tank last week due to some sort of surge that tripped the GFCI...This in turn shutdown everything--filter and heater --I got home from work and the temp dropped 10 degrees and my fish were colorless....I was able to save them but be careful if you have automatic timers that are connected to your GFCI. I have done some tests and it trips the GFCI on many occassions!! So be careful when it comes to this.....


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

FWIW; the chiller on the comet goldfish system at work is plugged into a GFCI outlet and it would trip at least once a day. We replaced the outlet for a new one and it hardly trips it anymore. 

Problem was, when it would trip, it obviously wouldn't run and the water temp in the system would start rising quick. My guess is those giant pumps make a lot of heat.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

GFI get old just like anything else, and they lose the correct amping to kick them out, and will kick out accidently. The should be changed out, but when is a good question. Once yiu get a trip out often enough, like every other day, and you've trouble shot your equipment, next thing on the list is the GFI.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Unfortunately, this is a brand new GFCI...so I don't know! I guess I will troubleshoot somemore


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Yikes. Might be equipment?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Jim Albright said:


> Back to the GFCI.....As some of you know I almost lost my entire tank last week due to some sort of surge that tripped the GFCI...This in turn shutdown everything--filter and heater --I got home from work and the temp dropped 10 degrees and my fish were colorless....I was able to save them but be careful if you have automatic timers that are connected to your GFCI. I have done some tests and it trips the GFCI on many occassions!! So be careful when it comes to this.....


If it is a digital/electronic timer the contacts may trip a gfci on occasion it is much safer to use the rotary timers where there is a definite on off switch. The manufacturers say the digital timers won't trip gfci's but I have ran into this before it almost seems like they work like a fast dimmer not a definite switch. Sorry to reply on your post Tom.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Everyone is all good!Sharing knowledge is the whole idea of the site and I'm paying close attention in an attempt to learn.Some days it seems like a real challenge!
Thanks anyways Dale.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

I have two rotary timers---one has my daytime lights and the other has nightime lights and airpump. I am thinking when one of them turns on it's thinking there may be a power surge of some sort. So I used to have my filter and heaters on the gfci network but just have them on regular outlet now....not taking chance---like I said gfci is new and the timers are new.... thx for all the input


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So an update on the tank.The miniatus grouper was found(seen) "snuggling" with the morray eel this a.m.!I am relieved to see they are getting along.He (the grouper) is like a rocket swimming around the tank and still fears my presence,but is eating the frozen prawn well now.He is a very good looking fish and I hope to have pics of him soon.
The lionfish has taken to the frozen prawn like a champ also as long as I make him chase it by using large tweezers and "teasing " him.It doesn't take much if I move it 1" he thinks it's swimming and hits it without hesitation .I read they are often veiwed by owners to have "dog like" personality and behavior.It really is like playing fetch with him.He is always happy to see me(it's funny how different fish in the same tank can be).My wife thinks we need to find a good "dog name" for him and I sorta think he deserves one,but rarely name my fish.Any dog like suggestions?All my dogs(5) have nice "human" names;Emma,Tessa,Riley,Graycie B. and Gia(last ones a little weird but most the names spell something out for AKC registrations{Emma;Emma Moonshine Muller of the Adirondacks,Tessa;Tom and Emmas Silver Sister of the Adirondacks and Gia ;Gunna In the Adirondacks(her moms name is Gunna)}).The B in Graycie B. stands for Beaster(she is) and Riley usaully answers to Rye Bread.
So no fidos or spot but a dog like name would be deserved,and suggestions are welcomed!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Show me a pic and I will throw out a name!! Cant wait to see them!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Here he is;


All I had to do to get him out and posing was open the top of the aquarium.He really likes me(or that I feed him{just like my dogs})!


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I love those fish.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Nice Lookin Fish! For some reason the fish reminds me of a candy-striper----Maybe Candy


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

OK I realise that I have chosen fish that will grow large,but think I have 1 more addition I would like to get thoughts on?
A harlequin tusk.
AOL Search
Reading says they are not quite the beast they appear.Actually much reading said angles or other wrasses may bully him,I'd believe it if I saw it,but I have no wrasses in the 120 and don't think my bi color angel is what they are talking about.
So anyone ever have one of these guys?I read the Australian are better colored and more healthy possibly due to capture and transporting techniques.
I always thought(and old books labled him "death to other fish")that they were highly aggressive,but just read a link that a couple of more experienced reeferers keep them in their reef tank!
So since reading of more up to date info has them being "not killers"I think I would like one in the fowlr.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Can't say on that one. Always wanted to get one, but because they have to eat stuff like the Puffers do to maintain their teeth, I never got one. From what I've gathered, your not going to have any issues with him and the Angel.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll have to read more since nothing I saw mentioned the teeth.Thanks!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Decided against harlequin tusk and have added four more fish over the last month and a half.Tonight I will be adding(dripping right now) a juvenille emperor angel(pretty pshyched as they are the "king" of saltwater,a second lionfish(similiar species and size),a mono sebae(converted from fresh water) and a sq. anthias(male).The tank is very active now and truely a very enjoyable addition to all my other aquatic endevors.If the emperor is all settled in tomorrow(he's big enough he should rule{possibly will be returning the bicolor})I'll see if I can post any pics tomorrow.
Kinda waiting on mods or admin to tell me why I can't post pics anymore?
Really enjoying this fowlr setup.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Looking forward to the pics.


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