# Cherry Shrimp and Pencilfish...



## Fishrule912

Not sure if this belongs in the invert forum, but I'll give it a go. So I got some hockeystick pencilfish, _Nannostomus eques_, (from an aquarium fish store) and added them to a planted 7.9 gal Fluval Flora that was already established with 20 or more cherry shrimp (from a local aquarium club). I've been losing them, and I have noticed the shrimp eating the dead fish. A family member thinks that the shrimp are killing and then eating the pencilfish, but I don't think so. What do you think? How can I keep the fish alive (they're really cool)?

Just a quick question that I might as well ask, the fluval flora tank comes with a small bottle of plant nutrients. Much to my dismay, I realized there is copper and other metals in the ingrediants. If I'm correct, shrimp are sensitive to metals. Should I get new plant nutrients?

Thank you for taking the time to read this!


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## lucienjr

yes please


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## coralbandit

lots of plant ferts. raise nitrAtes to pretty high levels.Check water quality,and yeah copper is bad for everything use something different(flourish or dry ferts that others here use).How often do you change water? that's a big part of fertalising plants.


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## Fishrule912

The aquarium was stocked recently (already cycled) so I haven't done any water changes yet.


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## Gizmo

How is it "already cycled"? How long has the tank been running? What were your cycling methods? Why are you not changing your water? What are your water parameters? (And I want parameters, not an "everything is fine cause my fish store clerk says so" sort of response).

Shrimp eat dead things and garbage, but they do not kill things. Especially tiny little guys like red cherry shrimp. Of all the creatures I've ever owned, shrimp are the most docile. Snails are more aggressive than shrimp.


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## Fishrule912

Um, here are the water parameters (may not be 100% accurate):

pH: 6.8

Alkanlinity: 0 (according to the "Quick Dip" test kit...)

Nitrate: 20

Nitrite: 0...I think

Hardness: Either 75 or 150

Once again, this probably isn't accurate since the test strip started to dry and change color as the typed the results.


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## Gizmo

How old is the tank? Why aren't you changing your water?

Your pencilfish are probably dying from either an uncycled tank (can't tell because you don't have a way to test for ammonia), or poor water quality due to NO water changes.

Either way, do an immediate 50% water change. Do you have dechlorinator, a.k.a. tap water conditioner?


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## Fishrule912

I cycled the tank using old tank water from an established 55 gal. 

If there was ammonia in the water...wouldn't the shrimp die too? Yes, I have a dechloinator.


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## coralbandit

Aged(used from another aquarium) water holds little to no beneficial bacteria.To seed an aquarium you need to use cycled filter material,even substrate from cycled aquariums holds very little beneficial bacteria.The proof to water holding very little to no bb is water changes(with a cycled filter you can change 100% of the water done correctly).
Liquid test are far more accurate than strips also.


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## Gizmo

How old is the tank?

I'm not sure about pencilfish, but they may be more delicate than cherry shrimp. I know mine are pretty tough.

As stated, using used water adds virtually no bacteria. True, there is a small amount, but virtually nothing compared to using used media from a filter, or a bag full of used substrate.


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## coralbandit

A quick check specifically said this about pencil fish"they can be sensative to nitrAtes so frequent water changes may be necessary".This comes from live aquaria,who usually says everything is easy,and will do well.They were listed as moderate for care level.
Even if tank is fully cycled nitrAtes are the end result of a cycled tank and basically are only removed by waterchanges.


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## Kehy

You should always do at least weekly waterchanges, even on established tanks. Get some liquid tests, and plant the heck out of that thing, but mostly just do water changes with aged and treated tap water. Using water from another tank introduces more nitrates to the tank, with very little bacteria. Essentially, you're concentrating the nitrates. Only water changes are capable to removing a significant amount of those in a short period of time. Plants help, but only do much.


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## Fishrule912

@Gizmo: About 3.5 weeks, maybe.

@Kehy and coralbandit: Thanks.

A few pencilfish are still alive. They have been for the last few days.


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