# New Red Jewel Just Laying There



## Dirt Diggler

Greetings everyone! I picked up Red Jewel Cichlid today that is just hanging at the bottom of the tank. He's breathing, but he's not active thus far. I have him in with several mbunas, and peacocks, and another Red Jewel of similar or smaller size. I netted him and put him into a breeding net for him to further acclimatize, but he's still just laying on the bottom of the net. Is this behavior normal for a Red Jewel or do I need to take him back to my LFS?


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## Jim Albright

How did you acclimate the red jewel?


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## Dirt Diggler

Jim Albright said:


> How did you acclimate the red jewel?


Plastic bag float for 30 minutes. I put in a Kenyi and a Red Empress as well and they are fine.


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## Jim Albright

If you have a quarantine tank, I would put him in there for a bit...sounds like he is stressed. When you purchased it was it doing the same thing?


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## Dirt Diggler

Jim Albright said:


> If you have a quarantine tank, I would put him in there for a bit...sounds like he is stressed. When you purchased it was it doing the same thing?


I imagine he is stressed. I don't have a q-tank yet, getting one cycled now. Looks like I'll just have to get him in there, turn the lights out, and hope for the best.


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## coralbandit

Dirt Diggler said:


> Plastic bag float for 30 minutes. I put in a Kenyi and a Red Empress as well and they are fine.


Fish need to acclimated to more than just temp.
Here's our sticky on drip acclimating(the way to go) 

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html


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## Dirt Diggler

coralbandit said:


> Fish need to acclimated to more than just temp.
> Here's our sticky on drip acclimating(the way to go)
> 
> http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html


Just read the post. Great idea. I'll be sure to give that a try next time I add fish!


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## StevenT

How is this fish doing?


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## Jim Albright

So you just floated the bag then put him in? Like the bandit said drip acclimate him is much easier transition for the fish. I learned the hard way just starting out and would float bag and dump bag water in tank---I just didn't know how to do it correctly! But you lfs water should NEVER touch your tank water. YouTube drip acclimate and go from there!! Good Luck!


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## Dirt Diggler

This thread is the first I've ever heard of the drip method. It sounds pretty reasonable, and I'll be sure to give it a shot next go round.


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## Dirt Diggler

He's a little more social, but still reclusive. I just put my fake plants in there. I took the fake plants out to make room for the real plants I have inbound but the aggression levels went up in the tank. Hopefully he feels more comfy coming out when the plants are in there. He's quite a beautiful fish.


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## Jim Albright

You may also want to move around any decorations or rocks in the tank as well. They aren't as territorial when you mix up the tank a bit. I always move stuff around when I add new fish and I even sometimes keep my fish net hanging in the water and it gives them something else to think about other than thinking about the new fish in the tank!


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## StevenT

Dirt Diggler said:


> He's a little more social, but still reclusive. I just put my fake plants in there. I took the fake plants out to make room for the real plants I have inbound but the aggression levels went up in the tank. Hopefully he feels more comfy coming out when the plants are in there. He's quite a beautiful fish.


Sounds like he might come around. I don't know your water and what your levels are but it sounds like he had a bit of a PH shock. Fish are very sensitive to PH changes.


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## snowghost45

I too change my tank around when I add new fish. Great idea about hanging a net inside a tank! I never thought that havung a tropical fish tank could be so enjoyable!


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## StevenT

Here is a link to a site with good information about AC water levels and the affect they have.

Malawi Cichlids, Malawi Species Profiles, African Cichlids, Lake Malawi, Malawi Forum, Tanks, Articles, Books, Videos


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## Dirt Diggler

I appreciate the feedback everyone! He's still kinda hiding, but I'm watching him.


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## Dirt Diggler

Looks like my pH is hovering around 7.4. I should be good but I'll try to bring it up a couple 10ths over the next couple of days.


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## Dirt Diggler

How much API pH Up do I need to use for a 45 gal tank to go up .5? The instructions are pretty vague.


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## coralbandit

NONE! Buffers always cause other issues.USE CRUSHED CORAL OR DOLOMITE in a mesh bag in your filter to raise pH. .5 really isn't a big deal and you will always be best getting fish used to pH you have in your source.So if your source is .5 less than"ideal" I would say your fish will be fine.
CONSISTENCY IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THEN PERFECTION!


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## Dirt Diggler

coralbandit said:


> NONE! Buffers always cause other issues.USE CRUSHED CORAL OR DOLOMITE in a mesh bag in your filter to raise pH. .5 really isn't a big deal and you will always be best getting fish used to pH you have in your source.So if your source is .5 less than"ideal" I would say your fish will be fine.
> CONSISTENCY IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THEN PERFECTION!


I've been good to avoid trying to adjust the pH thus far, but it seems to have dropped slightly. I'll just continue to monitor, and if it begins to drop further, then I'll take action.


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## coralbandit

It's important to place crushed coral in mesh bag and BE ABLE to remove it as if it is left in tank there is the chance it could go all the way to 8.2+.
Really is best to acclimate the fish to the water you have(I keep 20+ cardnals and discus in 7.6 with no problems)I'm consistent,NOT PERFECT.


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## Dirt Diggler

Is there a certain type of crushed coral I should be looking for?


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## StevenT

KH (Carbonate Hardness) and PH go hand in hand. KH is your tanks PH buffering capacity. Our tanks constantly produce nitrate (nitric acid) that will lower PH over time. With out proper buffering you run the risk of a PH crash. Baking soda can raise both PH and KH. As can crushed coral, and "cichlid sand".

With an established tank you have to raise levels slowly. The link I posted earlier will tell you all about this and how to safely make changes.

Here is is again.

Malawi Cichlids, Malawi Species Profiles, African Cichlids, Lake Malawi, Malawi Forum, Tanks, Articles, Books, Videos


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## Dirt Diggler

Well, looks like the mbunas took advantage of the jewel being weak and killed him. I caught him just in time to move him to the feeder tank I'm cycling (not ready to be a true q tank yet) where he took his last gasps. I had to move the new Kenyi as well which is surprising because he was one of the bigger fish and re-aquascaped the tank to erase territories. The Kenyi is hanging on but he looks better than the Jewel did. I dosed the tank with stress guard to help with healing and he has feeder guppies to eat if he wants to eat. If he makes it through the night, I think he'll be ok. Anything else I should be doing?


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## dalfed

Unfortunately you have a real good chance that the other jewel will end up the same. River cichlids have a hard time with mbunas.


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## Dirt Diggler

The other red jewel is doing well. Healthy with no tears to his fins or anything. Now the Kenyi looks like it's about done with this life...


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## Dirt Diggler

I need a nice red peacock or mbuna. Any ideas? The jewels were supposed to add red.


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## Jim Albright

This has answered my question of mixing river cichlids with the Mbunas....Sorry it turned out this way!


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## Dirt Diggler

Jim Albright said:


> This has answered my question of mixing river cichlids with the Mbunas....Sorry it turned out this way!


Well, the one that died was weak when he hit the water. There is another Red Jewel that came before him that's doing just fine who is actually a little smaller. Of course over time as they grow we'll have to see how it goes. My new kenyi was huge and they took him out as well. 2 fish funeral last night....


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## Dirt Diggler

StevenT said:


> KH (Carbonate Hardness) and PH go hand in hand. KH is your tanks PH buffering capacity. Our tanks constantly produce nitrate (nitric acid) that will lower PH over time. With out proper buffering you run the risk of a PH crash. Baking soda can raise both PH and KH. As can crushed coral, and "cichlid sand".
> 
> With an established tank you have to raise levels slowly. The link I posted earlier will tell you all about this and how to safely make changes.
> 
> Here is is again.
> 
> Malawi Cichlids, Malawi Species Profiles, African Cichlids, Lake Malawi, Malawi Forum, Tanks, Articles, Books, Videos


I read it, but I just wanted some clarification on the coral as I haven't noticed it before.


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## Dirt Diggler

KH is sitting at 107.4 so I'll need to fix that at some point.


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## coralbandit

Any crushed coral will work well.Not much is needed usaully.
Although mixing african species usaully ends up with disasterous results(death),I'll still guess that the two deaths,being so close to introduction were more stress related(water quality and aggressive mates).
Many have mixed africans before and claimed sucess,that lasted weeks,some even months,but in the long term(years) the behaviour of juvinelles to adults changes dramatically, and then the compatability is short lived.Mbunas rarely tolerate each other if not kept properly,so trying other types of fish is really a crap shoot.Not worth it IMO.


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## Dirt Diggler

I'm still working on the aquarium "chemistry" and monitoring the aggression level. I'm about to make some PVC mbuna housing that should help a bit.


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## Jim Albright

I have had african cichlids from a different lake that didn't even get along! It honestly is a crap-shoot that I want no part of and that's why I have stuck with MBUNA Malawis.


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## graybot

I find that once territories are established I have only had luck adding smaller mbuna to the mix. If the new fish is viewed as competition they are more likely to be harassed, so large or colorful new additions are more likely to be targeted than a colored-down juvie.


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## Dirt Diggler

That is GREAT to know. Makes perfect sense now that you've said that. I was afraid to add smaller fish for the same reason. But you're right, a bigger fish IS competition.


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## Dirt Diggler

Well, never mind. Looks like either my CO2 booster, or PVC project just wiped out half of my stock. I'm so dang sad right now


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## coralbandit

Sorry to hear that.


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## graybot

Why were you using co2 on an African cichlid tank? Co2 lowers ph, and any plants that would benefit would quickly become cichlid food anyway. 

Either way, sorry to hear.


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## graybot

Please don't take this personally, but perhaps you should use this as an opportunity to reassess what you're trying to do here. With the stocking I see in this thread it was only a matter of time before losing many of your fish anyway. I would choose one type- mbuna, peacock, or hap and stick with that. You were getting way too far ahead of yourself.


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## Dirt Diggler

CO2 poisoning killed them, not a stocking issue.


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## graybot

Stocking eventually would have killed some fish. Mbuna and peacocks just don't work together. Jewel cichlids and mbuna don't work together. Just because they coexisted for a limited amount of time doesn't mean that the jewels and peacocks wouldn't have been killed eventually.

My point being, if you lost a bunch of stock, regardless of the reason, make wise decisions (different from your past decisions) when restocking.


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## Dirt Diggler

While I did agree that stocking would become a problem at some point in time, this was not that point in time. The fish lived well with one another before I hit the tank with some CO2 booster for the plants I was floating in the tank for planting later on today. A 50% water change wasn't enough to save them, but the survivors are in a 10 gallon feeder tank for the night until I can refill the main aquarium. Had it been a bloodbath, I would have said that it was a stocking issue. I was aware of the pH crash caused by CO2, but I was under the impression that only occurred with gas systems. I was waiting for the fish to nibble on the plants but they hadn't yet. I wouldn't have minded if they did eat the plants.


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## snowghost45

So sorry to hear about the loss of your fish!


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## graybot

Just saying, don't make the same stocking mistakes with your next fish.

Co2 is only needed for high-tech planted tanks. Depending on what plants you have, light should be all you really need to sustain them. It takes a few days of constant co2 exposure for any noticeable difference to take effect, anyway.

I've tried hardy plants like java fern, various forms of anubias, and swords... They are fine for a day or two but eventually the plants are shredded by mbuna teeth. Even the tough anubias leaves started getting little holes and touch edges from the algae grazing cichlids.


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## Dirt Diggler

Judging by the clouding of the eyes of my convict pair, I'm leaning towards a pH crash now. I'll be sure to take note of your advice when I go to restock the aquarium, but the fish that you were most concerned about did in fact survive and look to be doing quite well all things considered. I should plant the plants this week and see how it goes. I'm avoiding any CO2 injection or boosting this time around.


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