# Nitrite Level Issues... HELP



## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Hello all! First post here, but avid reader up till now. 

I am having a very frustrating time with my new tank. The Nitrite levels are proving very difficult to get under control. Please read my whole post before responding, because I am going to provide a lot of info in order to get the best help

My setup is a 37g Freshwater Marineland Tank with a 250gph filter with the BioWheel feature as well. There are only artificial plants in the tank as of now. I have had the tank going for about 8 weeks.

I knew that fishless cycles are best, but due to an impatient girlfriend, we ended up getting 4 hearty looking silver colored Gourami from WalMart to start with, and added some African Cichlids a couple weeks later. I now understand that adding the fish then was not a good idea. 
So at the moment, we have the 4 Walmart Fish, and 4 Kenyi Africans. All the fish get along great

For a while, I was dealing with the usual elevated Ammonia levels. With 25% water changes every 2 days I was able to keep the levels down below 1ppm. I was using the API StressZyme Bio-filter booster to help things along. After 3 weeks, I noticed that the ammonia levels would not rise above .5-1ppm between water changes, so I began to focus on Nitrites. 

The Nitrites are absolutely wearing me down. From week 3 until now(week 8) the levels will stubbornly rise between water changes. I vacuum the gravel enough to keep the sitting waste to a minimum, and I have been doing daily 50% changes. The levels would rise about 1.0ppm per day if I did not do a water change. I usually don't allow the Nitrite levels to get above 1.0ppm, but I'm sure there have been a couple days of 2ppm, but protected by Prime and Salt. 
Once, I let it go a few days to see if I was overchanging, and the levels shot to 2.0ppm by the 4th day. After my water changes, the Nitrite levels are usually 0.5ppm, but they always come back up the next day.

I have been adding aquarium salt and 3x normal doses of Prime water additive to combat the presence of the Nitrite, so I have not lost any fish, and they do not appear stressed. 

I have been rinsing my filter media in the water I remove with the changes.

I have not changed or messed with the Bio-wheel at all. 

I treat all my new water with ample amounts of Prime conditioner to remove the chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. After adding the Prime and stirring for a few minutes, I let the fresh water sit a few hours to ensure any chemicals in the water are not present when I pour it in. 

I use API Cichlid pH buffer and minerals as to keep my pH at 8.2 and my hardness at 250 thru all the water changes. 

I add Cycle Brand Bio-Filter Bacterial Booster after the daily changes. 

I don't think I am overfeeding, I have even tried reduced the feeding to every other day, and even skipped 4 days once. 

The water was slightly cloudy during the 3rd and 4th weeks, but now the water is always crystal clear and there is no algae or other growths. 

Tonight I did a water test(API Master Test Kit) right before a 50% water change:
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm

The levels were all halved after the 50% change. 

These reading are the norm before I do a water change. 


I need some advice... I cannot seem to get the Nitrate - Nitrate phase complete. The tank is stuck in the high Nitrite phase, and the water changes are wearing me out!

Please help me, my fellow fishkeepers!


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

I want to add a few things:

I have only been rinsing the filter when it starts to resist the water flow thru it, which is about every 2 weeks. I just ran out of the Cycle bacterial treatment tonight, so I'll hold off on buying more and try it without for a week or so. 

I was reading the forums after I posted and saw another similar post and reading it made me do another 50% water change. So I have done a 50% water change 2 times today with about 6 hours in between. After the second PWC of the day, my Nitrite level is 0.25ppm..... However, I am anxious to see how the level looks in 24 hours.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The fact that you have measurable Ammonia and Nitrite values indicates your cycling isn't complete and/or you may have decomposing food particles. Stop feeding your fish flake food, add plants, run stronge aeriation and good filtration. Try feeding flightless fruit flies, they are live food on the surface. Change your filter pads every week until cycling is complete (no Ammonia or Nitrites). Once cycling is complete make a 30-40% water change to remove Nitrates.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

How are you rinsing you filter? IMPORTANT: Don't use tap water as it kills the bacteria, and will delay the cycle, use old water from the tap.

Don't over-do the Prime, it also robs the water of oxygen so can cause problems if you just keep adding it. Some also says it can slow down the cycle, but you'll get mixed opinions.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your cycle doesn't sound so far out of what could be expected. I would guess that the end would be near, but you never know with these things. 

I would stop adding the salt until you're done with so many water changes. Salt doesn't evaporate like water does and you should only put in enough for the water you are replacing. You really don't have a need for salt right now. I think if you are doing what you need to do with water changes, you wouldn't need excess Prime. All that Prime may actually be stalling the process, as mentioned.


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## Thor (Sep 24, 2011)

I had the same problem. I put in too many fish and didn't let it cycle properly. =/


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the suggestions... I think the Nitrite situation has improved in the past few days!

When I feed the Fish, I feed a small amount to them and wait til they eat it all before I give them a little more. This way, I can be sure that no food can sink and remain uneaten. They eat the food within a 20sec period each time I feed so I don't think I'm overfeeding. I feed them twice per day.

I did two 50% water changes each day, two days in a row. I waited 8hrs in between the changes.

I have made sure to do a min 50% PWC each day.

I have reduced the Prime to a very low level, since my Nitrite levels have decreased because of the frequent PWCs.

I rinse my filter in the dirty water that is removed from the tank during the PWCs.

When I use salt, I add a small amount (1 tsp per 10gal) at the PWC to replace that salt in the water that is removed.

I have 2 bubblers going at all times to insure maximum oxygen is avail.


Results so far:

I took a reading tonight before a PWC:
Ammonia: barely detectable, below .25ppm
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm

After the change the Nitrite dropped to .25ppm, which is really low considering the tank had been at 1.0ppm 24 hours after a PWC.


It does seem like the end is near. Thanks for all the input. Further suggestions are welcome and I will keep you all posted.

Brian


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

When you are cycling the tank, don't rinse the filter. Leave it alone. In fact, don't rinse it for a few weeks after the cycle either, so the bacteria can get good and established. (If you are rinsing the filter/media - even in the dirty fish water - you are still rinsing off some of the good bacteria, and that will slow the cycle down.)

2 Bubblers plus the filter going is great! The more 02 the better for the good bacteria!

You can do one feeding a day while you're cycling. You can even feed once a day and do that every other day until the tank is done cycling. (In the wild, fish don't eat every day guaranteed. They eat when and IF they find food.) I stopped feeding twice a day and my tanks have been healthier. (Just a suggestion.)

Question: why are you using salt at all?


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

holly12 said:


> Question: why are you using salt at all?



I learned from a few different sources that small amounts of salt will help the fish tolerate the elevated levels of Nitrite. Not sure why it helps, but it's prob explained by some kind of complicated chemistry

As far as the filter goes, I only rinse it when it gets really dirty, after a few weeks usually. I have the Bio-Wheel filter system, and that wheel never gets rinsed or changed over the lifetime of the tank. It really provides a great place for a ton of helpful bacteria to grow. You should check it out it's pretty cool!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Bio Wheel....... I shall google that.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Well..... its been 3-4 weeks since I first posted. Thank you all for the comments... I have taken all the advice given here, but I am still having Nitrite issues!

I haven't changed the filter in 6 weeks.
I do 25% water changes every day.
I reduced feeding to a min. 
I stopped using bio-supplement chemicals.
My tank has no problems converting Ammonia to Nitrite.
Ammonia is usually near 0ppm, (maybe a tiny bit above 0ppm if I skip a daily PWC). 

I am unable to get past the Nitrite phase. I have been battling these Nitrites for almost 2 months now. The only thing keeping my Nitrites down near 0.25ppm are my near-daily water changes(I'll miss a day every now and then.) If I miss a day, the Nitrites will increase by almost 0.5 during a 24hour period. I'm sure if I quit doing the PWCs, the levels would skyrocket and kill my fish in a week or so. 

Even though I have been doing all I can to keep the levels down, I am sure that my few fish have suffered at least some because of Nitrite exposure over this long of a time period(7-8 weeks). 
I don't know what is keeping me in this phase, and these daily 25%(10gal) PWCs are wearing me down. 

Does anyone have any more ideas on what might explain this situation, or ideas that might help me get past this? 
Please help me someone


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sometimes it happens. I wouldn't do a water change unless the value got above one. It's weird, the last fish cycle I did the nitrite phase started and ended on the same day.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Still having the same issues with the Nitrite. I reduced my cichlid count to 6 2 weeks ago. Certainly my 40g tank should be able to handle 6 small(1.5-2") cichlids. I have been doing the darn 25% water changes almost every friggin day for over 3 months. I have had the same gravel, decorations, and bio wheel since day one, and I haven't changed the filter in over a month. Just been rinsing to keep water flowing thru it. 

Something here needs to give because the partial water changing for this tank is really beating me down. 

Could the persistent high Nitrites be something relating to the slate type rock centerpiece I constructed for the tank? Is there a reaction going on that could be blamed on the type of rock?

Please everybody, scour your brains as hard as you can for any options, as I am nearing the point where I go insane!!


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

How much/often are you feeding them now, and what kind of food?


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

I feed them twice a day. I use small cichlid pellet food... pieces are about the size of a half grain of white rice. Each fish gets 1 per feeding. I alternate some cichlid flake as well. They will eat the food within 15 sec. I am certain there is no food that ever goes uneaten.


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

Its not just uneaten food, but also how much refuse from... ahem.. "recycled" food the fish excrete.

Have you considered feeding once a day or even once every other day?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I guess now it is getting to be a little long. If it were me....my disclaimer.....I would do a large water change and then stop feeding for 5 days. No food at all. Your fish will be fine....they don't get fed twice a day in the wild.

See how it goes from there.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

stop adding food until nitrItes drop to unmeasureable levels.

I would also stop adding all the chemicals as well. Some ammonia locks will lock up the ammonia but test kits still measure ammonia. and in the process lock up oxygen as well. The danger is you lock up ammonia, still test positive add more reducing the oxygen for the fish.


my .02


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## Russell (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't have the experience of jrman and beaslbob but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. I suggest backing off the water changes to every 2nd or 3rd day at most. Let the nitrites rise to higher concentrations, perhaps to a max of 2ppm, to allow the slow growing bacteria that metabolizes it to really ramp up. 
Nitrites are a problem because they cause methemoglobinemia; a higher than normal concentration of a form of hemoglobin that prevents oxygen release to the tissues. The end result of this can be asphyxiation despite perfectly normal levels of oxygen in the air or water and normal breathing mechanisms. Significant levels of methemoglobin can be tolerated by humans, up to 30%+, without symptoms and I suspect most fish are at least as tolerant. Unlike ammonia, which causes direct tissue damage, the effects of nitrite exposure are reversible as long as there hasn't been cell death due to hypoxemia. As long as your fish are behaving normally and feeding well they should not suffer permanent effects from the nitrites. BTW, lips and mucous membranes in humans start to appear darker, even brownish, at concentrations of 10-20%, so I imagine fish may dull a bit without ill effect.
Again, this is a newbie fish person's opinion. However I've been taking care of human problems, including methemoglobinemia, for a while now.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Okay then. No food for 5 days is okay with me. I just did a PWC and will let it ride out for a bit. The fish have never shown any signs of discomfort. They will eat like crazy, and never seem to be lacking oxygen. I've got two strong bubblers in there too.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

though I don't have as much experience as everyone else. I would stop feeding for a couple of days and stop adding chemicals. the decoration you added wouldn't affect the bacteria in your tank. I'm sure the end is near, keep us posted


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## Russell (Jun 20, 2011)

Bigbeezy said:


> Okay then. No food for 5 days is okay with me. I just did a PWC and will let it ride out for a bit. The fish have never shown any signs of discomfort. They will eat like crazy, and never seem to be lacking oxygen. I've got two strong bubblers in there too.


The problem is not lack of oxygen in the water. The problem is the inability of the oxygen carrier molecules in the blood to release the oxygen to the tissues where it does its work. Bubblers can't hurt but as long as there is at least a normal amount of oxygen available they should be okay.
I'm hoping a more experienced aquarist will chime in on this.
In the mean time, good luck


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Russell said:


> I suggest backing off the water changes to every 2nd or 3rd day at most. Let the nitrites rise to higher concentrations, perhaps to a max of 2ppm, to allow the slow growing bacteria that metabolizes it to really ramp up.


I like this plan.


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## joevw007 (Jul 6, 2011)

Bigbeezy said:


> I vacuum the gravel enough to keep the sitting waste to a minimum, and I have been doing daily 50% changes.
> Please help me, my fellow fishkeepers!


Water changes are good for the fish, but vacuuming the gravel is destroying the necessary bacteria needed to keep nitrites and ammonia down. last thing you should be doing is vacuuming the gravel.


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## LariM78 (Nov 2, 2010)

If you think about it, if the nitrite is kept at a constant 0.25ppm from frequent PWCs and is not allowed to elevate then there is almost no food for those bacterial colonies to grow. I agree with the suggestion of letting the nitrite get up to 2 ppm, the bacteria will then have an adequate food source and should hopefully colonize quicker. Maybe you already stated this but I never took any notice of the temperature of the water. The higher the temp, the faster the metabolism of the bacteria. Can you get some filter media from an established tank at all?
Good luck.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Well, I am 3.5 days into the 5 day plan. The nitrites have rapidly ramped up to around 4.0ppm. I've been using prime, and the fish don't seem very stressed. I'm sure they are hungry though. My ammonia levels are around zero. The Nitrate levels are 20ppm. 

My tank seems to be very efficient at converting Ammonia to Nitrite, but still struggling with the conversion of Nitrite to Nitrate. I am going to do a 50% water change tonight to get the nitrite down to 2.0, which is roughly where it was yesterday morning. 

I will hold off on gravel vacuuming for now. When I was using the vacuum, I only got the surface and didn't "dig" down at all with it. 

You guys think this experiment is working, or am I still having the same issues?


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## Russell (Jun 20, 2011)

If the rising nitrate level is new then it's definitely working because that indicates growing bacterial colonies feeding on the nitrites. If you had significant nitrate levels before allowing nitrites to rise or if your water naturally contains nitrate then you'll need to see a bump above that baseline to indicate the strategy is working. I had nitrites for weeks but when I started seeing significant amounts of nitrate cycling ended pretty quickly. I had similar experiences with mini-cycles when I had to change filters--very efficient ammonia disposal but lingering nitrites before the new filter matured.
I would definitely do water changes to keep the nitrite levels under 4. Not sure that vacuuming the gravel is going to have any real effect since bacteria generally live in sticky films attached to surfaces.
Good luck.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would say its working. Just remember to watch your feeding levels. If you haven't already, stop feeding. Resume after a week or so. Once the nitrites break and they are going down in their own you are near the end.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

with no food being added the 4ppm nitrite level could last a couple of days then start dropping. Once that happens nitrItes will drop to 0 very quickly and stay there.


my .02


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Well, it has been 7 days since I started this week long experiment.

I did a 75% PWC on day 1.
I fed the fish only once, on day 4.
I did one PWC during this past week.

On day 1, my levels were:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 1.5ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

On Day 3 the levels were
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 4ppm 
Nitrate 20ppm

I did a 50% PWC and they were
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 2ppm
Nitrate 10

Today, day 7, the levels are
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 1.0ppm 
Nitrate 20ppm


How does this look? 
Should I feed some more? 
Still seems really slow to process Nitrites.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It looks like the nitrite is on its way down on its own. Just feed sparingly if you do. If the nitrite keeps going down the cycle may be near complete.


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## Russell (Jun 20, 2011)

I think you're definitely heading to the end of the cycle. Nitrites coming down from 2ppm to 1ppm over three days without a water change and rising nitrate indicates active bacterial metabolism. Should be done very soon.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm STILL having these damn Nitrite issues. 
My tank simply cannot develop the appropriate levels of bacteria to convert the Nitrite to Nitrate. 
I have no issues with the other type of bacteria that convert the Ammonia to Nitrite, as that process happens very fast. Not matter how little or how much I feed the fish, I always read a zero or near-zero ammonia level. 

However, even with VERY minimal feeding, those darn Nitrite levels will rise quickly and not fall nearly fast enough on their own. I still have to do very frequent water changes to keep them at a safe level. 

It has been almost 4 months now that I've been having this issue.

At this point, I am convinced that there is something complicated going on here.
I am thinking that either the slate rock decorations or the epoxy used to secure that rock might be causing some type of chemical process to occur that is blocking the Nitrite-to-Nitrate conversion process or the involved bacterial growth. 

Maybe the rock or epoxy is leaching a chemical that is directly interfering with the growth of the bacteria? 

Or, maybe the rock or epoxy could be changing the water chemistry and inhibiting the bacterial growth? Like maybe somehow blocking a crucial nutrient that is needed by that particular bacteria?

I do check my water readings like a crazy person with my API Master kit, but maybe it is a chemistry problem that is not tested for using the API kit. 

My water is maintained at a 7.8 pH level, and temperature is 80 deg F. 


I am going insane. Really.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

relax

and stop adding food untill nitrItes are unmeasureable.



my .02


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

Do you know anyone with an established tank? Perhaps you could get and ornament or some gravel from their tank and use it to seed your tank with the missing bacteria.


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

Finally done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got fed up and didnt take any readings for 3 days or mess with anything at all. 0ppm ammonia, and 0ppm nitrite. I have been feeding the fish too!!! thanks for the help!!!!


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

Awesome! I'm having nitrite issues as well, so it's quite comforting to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jaguayo said:


> Awesome! I'm having nitrite issues as well, so it's quite comforting to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.


Perhaps doing nothing for 3 days would help. *old dude


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## Kelvinlim11 (Nov 5, 2011)

Oxygen is very important for nitrifying bacteria to grow. Try to introduce more oxygen. However, there are some people whose tank require longer cycling time to bring dwon nitirite. Do visit my blog as i have picture of how i set up my sponge filter to introduce more oxygen. Www.klimshrimps.blogspot.com




Bigbeezy said:


> Hello all! First post here, but avid reader up till now.
> 
> I am having a very frustrating time with my new tank. The Nitrite levels are proving very difficult to get under control. Please read my whole post before responding, because I am going to provide a lot of info in order to get the best help
> 
> ...


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## Bigbeezy (Sep 22, 2011)

I have had two large bubble stones going for 2 months. I'm so lad it has finally cycled. What a relief. I was starting to go insane. Looking back, I really wish I had done it fishless. It took way too much effort to cycle and keep the fish comfortable at the same time.


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm doing it fishless, so less stress on that part. I got an air pump and a stone this week, so hopefully it'll help.


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## seanh2008 (Apr 14, 2012)

First of all i would not rinse, change move or do anything else to the filter while in cycle. Do not vacuum gravel or clean any ornate things in the tank either. The bacteria will grow on all solid surfaces in you tank especially the filter so every time you rinse it your removing beneficial bacteria. Do 20% PWC every other day using water conditioner but leave everything in the tank alone. Try feeding every other day. It is not uncommon or unhealthy for fish to go several days without food. I am positive this will solve your problem. Good luck and keep us posted :fish10:


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

id always vancuum the gravel, its just full of poo and rotting food!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I hope these issues are gone by now.


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