# I need some help knowing where to start.



## Absolome (Sep 1, 2010)

I am a kid who has been studying marine biology my whole life and now that I have some free time available, was looking into starting a 20? gallon tropical freshwater tank. I don't know quite how much this will cost, but I plan to wait a month and see if I am really committed to doing this, than start buying the parts separately over time.

I know I need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I also know how the nitrogen cycle works in aquariums (I have been studying marine ecology for a while, and the cycle is very close to the biogeochemical cycle of nitrogen in the oceans, fish and other animals (especially freshwater fish who gain water by osmosis and need to excrete a lot of water to avoid swelling) will release a lot of ammonia into the water, which is not bad in the oceans because of the amount of water, and microscopic bacteria and animals converting it into nitrite, than back into nitrates, but in aquariums, the ammonia is fed through a filter of bacteria that converts it into nitrite, than nitrate, after which you keep nitrate levels in check with plants and partial water changes). If I am wrong about any of that, please correct me.

I would like to know what filter I should work towards getting, I know I need a mechanical and a biological filter, and want to do a fishless cycle (I couldn't live with myself if the cycle killed fish), and would like to know more about that. I would like to know what I should expect to be doing for the first month of the aquarium (how ofter do I do a partial water change, how is that done, etc.) and how to dechlorinate my tap water. I would like to know what heater to use and the size of tank that would be optimal for an easy newbie tank.

In terms of fish I would like to start out with zebra dannios for a bit, when the water is fully cycled and I can add the fish, should I add one dannio at a time, or add them in small groups, or just add about 6 all at once?

I would like to know what kind of substrate/gravel I should use that is (preferably) not plastic coated (I am going for a plastic-less tank in terms of gravel and decor) and what gravel will not mess with the Ph.

I would like to get plants for the tank, and am wondering what to do about that, what lights I need, etc.

So, TL;DR:

I would like to know:
1: What size tank is best for a newbie tropical freshwater tank, and how much I could get one for
2: If said tank doesn't come with a hood, what kind should I get and with what kind of lights for plants?
3: what non-plastic gravel can I add that will be a dark color and not mess with the Ph
4: What test kits to buy
5: how often and how to perform partial water changes, and how often to check the water with the test kits
6: how to introduce fish to my tank, and how often can I add a fish till the tank is stocked?
7: how do I perform a fishless cycle
8: how much should I expect a whole new tank to cost
9:how can I add wood to my tank without altering the Ph
10: How often till I can add a pleco?

I hope that isn't too overwhelming! I just am very curious about all this, and those topics for whatever reason aren't covered in most beginners guides


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## Inga (Aug 31, 2010)

Sorry, I am new here and hit the "thanks" button instead of reply so I don't know what that just did. lol

First I wanted to just say that if you do plant the tank and do so relatively heavily, you can almost skip the cycle process and get a few fish. Again, that would be heavily planted not just one or two plants. Also, add only a few fish to start and not some of the most "fragile" fish. 

The plants, as you know, use the ammonia and Nitrite that would be produced during the "cycle" of the tank and there after. You would of course still need to do a water change on preferably a weekly basis. The amount varies from person to person. I do a 40% change every Saturday. I add Fertilizer for plants 24 hours after my water changes. Remember that you will need a water conditioner for any added water. I use "Prime" water conditioner. 

Because I intended to have some heavy root feeders, I use Eco-Complete as my substrate. I use Red because I think it gives a nice natural feel. I also add root tabs to my swords as they are heavy root feeders.

I definitely recommend a good water test kit like API Master test kit for the fresh water aquarium. If I were to start a planted 20 gallon (which I am thinking about) I would only use a sponge filter. That is really all it needs unless you need to create more current for certain fish. In a 20 a sponge will be more then enough filter with the plants. 

Here is a picture of my tank. I have made quite a few changes like, got the heater out of sight by dropping it below the wood, plants at the back, got rid of the pot on the right and added a large sword plant and a few other plant additions. 











I would like to know:
1: What size tank is best for a newbie tropical freshwater tank, and how much I could get one for *depends on where you get it, 20-30 gallon is nice size to start. I prefer 30*
2: If said tank doesn't come with a hood, what kind should I get and with what kind of lights for plants? *You will need bulbs with a 6500K rating*
3: what non-plastic gravel can I add that will be a dark color and not mess with the Ph *I use Eco-Complete and love it*
4: What test kits to buy *answered above*
5: how often and how to perform partial water changes, and how often to check the water with the test kits *API Mster Test Kit for the fresh water tank test weekly to start*
6: how to introduce fish to my tank, and how often can I add a fish till the tank is stocked? *Only add 2-3 at a time then wait a week or so*
7: how do I perform a fishless cycle *sorry I don't know if I can add links but google it. If you have heavy plants you can skip it for the most part, see above*
8: how much should I expect a whole new tank to cost *again, depends where you get it. I have seen 220-30 gallons used for $50.00 for everything but I question how good they were. New would be more, obviously.*
9:how can I add wood to my tank without altering the Ph *My wood only temperarily changed PH Best to get fish that do well in your normal PH. Check your source waters PH Tap or bottled.*
10: How often till I can add a pleco?
*Not until you have some algae growth. Keep in mind that a common pleco will soon outgrow your tank. There are some species that are dwarf variety you best research them. If you want a Pleco for algae removal, there are other options like Oto's and snails.*


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## JOMA (Jul 23, 2010)

i am only going to be able to answer some of your question:

1.) to be honest , you should get the biggest tank possible, it is much more stable with water conditions because it would take a lot more of something to unbalance it. i started out with a 20 gallon and did OK, lost 2 fish but hey, you cant prevent ALL deaths.

2.) i dont have live plants so i am not sure.

3.) any gravel from a petstore is fine if its marked aquarium gravel. ive heard you can get river rocks from a home improvment store but im not sure what to look for.

4.) im cheap so i never bought test kits  i just went to the petstore 1-3 times a week. if you have the money though i would just buy a master kit, it tests for everything.

5.) if you are going with a fishless cycle never change the water during the cycle. once you put fish in do about 10% each week and/or 25% each month. Im not sure when to test with a fishless cycle (i did mine with danios in both my tanks)

6.) add fish after about 2-6 weeks. you ammonia should be 0ppm, same with nitrItes, your nitrAtes will be about 20-25ppm. when your test kits say this after just recently adding ammonia, then you should be able to add your danios. only add 2, 3 tops, at a time. i would add new fish every week to 2 weeks, or when your ammonia and nitrItes go to 0.

7.) im not sure, i did mine with fish, do some research, there are TONS of websites explaining how to do it

8.) they can be quite costly, i would expect to pay close to $125-150 dollars to get a 20 gallon going. i would buy i kit though. it comes with a tank, filter, and a hood with light. some kits come with even more! just shop around and do some research to find the best one for the best price.

9.) if you find driftwood from a river that SHOULD be fine if you boil it. you never know. the safest way but the most expensive way is to buy some.

10.) you could add it after a week or two after you add the danios. be careful, the common pleco i think grows up to 12 inches!



i hope i have helped and GOOD LUCK!! 

-JOMA


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## JOMA (Jul 23, 2010)

darn, inga beat me haha


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## flyin-lowe (Oct 3, 2009)

The best thing to do is shop around for some used stuff. You can find 55 gallon tanks ready to go on Craigs List all day for around $100.00. 20 and 29 gallons are even cheaper. If you go to a pet store and buy everything new it would not be uncommon to have $500-$700 in the same set up. I bought my 120 gallon with the lights, stand, and hoods for $200.00 even.

API makes about the best master test kit. Any name brand kit that uses liquid solutions are good. Don't get anything with dip test strips, they are just not reliable and precise enough to trust. 

As far as the plants go there are a few things to consider. I will give a very generic and brief overview. If you don't want to spend the money and upgrade from stock aquarium lights that come in almost all hoods there are only a couple types of plants that will grow in the low light levels (java ferns, java moss, some anubias, and a few others.). If you upgrade lighting you are also going to have to get faster growing plants. The fast growing plants will eat up some of the nutrients that algae needs to grow so if you don't have the right plants then you will have algae issues. If you go to high light level plants then you will need to use ferts and CO2 in order to keep the plants growing and the algae down. In my 120 gallon I have the low-medium light plants. There aren't a bunch to choose from but I didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars more on lights and then buy a CO2 kit. I went to a gravel pit and they gave me a hundred pounds of pea gravel for free. They don't miss a few bucket loads and it has a natural native look much like the pic above. So if I were you I would get the tank and start cycling. Then the month or so while it cycles you can pick out for sure what kind of plants and fish you want and see what is compatible with each other. You are on the right track by researching and asking questions before you start the tank.


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## Absolome (Sep 1, 2010)

Whoa, I did not expect that much detail or that many posts so soon! Thank you so much!

I only ask about the plecos because they are one of my favorite fish, I would only go for smaller ones though, I don't want to be stuck with a foot long miserable pleco!

If I were to find a full kit on craig's list that is bigger than say, 30g, would it still be a good idea to get it? (ie: would a 50 or 55g tank be much harder than a 20-30 for a newbie?)

and finally, if the plants eat ammonia up, do they also use the nitrites and convert them to nitrates? and if that is the case how will the sponge filter get the bacteria it needs? wouldn't the plants inhibit it from growing the bacteria?

I plan on having a moderately planted tank, plants I have scouted out so far are Aponogeton crispus and anachris (not sure if these are commonly used names for them, but both look beginner easy and good for water oxidation)

Where should I get my fish from if I can't find a good local store (I am going to check one near me out soon)? is there a good online supplier and how does getting fish online work?

again, sorry for the loads of questions, I'm just excited about this project.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I would get a 55-75 gallon but hey thats just me. I feel you have more and better options with the larger tanks sure they will cost more but are much more stable. 
I look at it this way if you are going low light and low tech as in no CO2 and minimal fert dosing then you would be looking at lets say 20% WC every 2 weeks so its a difference from 6 gallons on a 30 or 10 gallons on a 50. 
I think you have more and better options for lighting and filtration on larger tanks. 
The plants do use ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for growth but they wont use all that is produced so what you get is a soft cycle and the bacteria will develope. 
I would go with a cannister filter as they tend to be able to go for longer periods between cleanings than a hang on filter. 
I am not sure where you are located so cant really help on where to purchase from and depending on what you want to stock with but I like getting my fish from local breeders when ever possible. 
I just used floor dry with a little Eco and flourite mixed in for my substrate.
Safe T Sorb Oil Absorbent, 40 lb. - 0800989 | Tractor Supply Company


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## Absolome (Sep 1, 2010)

ok, so say I get a 55 gallon tank with a filter and heater etc. online, if I fill it with gravel and plants and either do a fishless cycle or put 3? zebra danios in it to help with cycling, will it be ok only having that small an amount of fish in such a large tank? Also, would I need an extra filter for the larger amount of room? and how does tank size affect cycling time and intensity?

I am checking out fish right now and most of them have a minimum tank size of over 30g, so I think I may want to go with the larger tank size.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Absolome said:


> ...
> 
> I know I need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.


you don't need test kits of any kind. At least I didn't until a few years ago and had tanks that ran for years and years. While it was interesting to know the values all they did to me was confirm what I was doing worked.


> ...
> 
> I would like to know:
> 1: What size tank is best for a newbie tropical freshwater tank, and how much I could get one for


largest you have money and space for. But actually nice tanks can be 10-20g


> 2: If said tank doesn't come with a hood, what kind should I get and with what kind of lights for plants?


I used 1/4"square plastic grids (egg crate) lighting diffusers from home depot with round clip on spot reflectors and spiral bulbs in them. Worked great.


> 3: what non-plastic gravel can I add that will be a dark color and not mess with the Ph


I recommend 1" peat moss, 1" play sand,1" pc select (or aquarium gravel). don't worry about pH with a planted tank. The plants will raise the pH.


> 4: What test kits to buy


none


> 5: how often and how to perform partial water changes, and how often to check the water with the test kits


I never do a water change and never test


> 6: how to introduce fish to my tank, and how often can I add a fish till the tank is stocked?


I add a single fish after the plants of been in the tank a week. Wait one week with no food being added. Then add more fish and start feeding a single flake or two per day. For live bearers I add 1 make then 2 females the next week. for neons, danios or territorial I add one fish then a week later 4. for larger tanks I would stock up after 4 weeks or so.


> 7: how do I perform a fishless cycle


I give up how? *r2 I dont use the fish less cycle. I also don't lose fish the first few weeks and the fish show no signs of stress.


> 8: how much should I expect a whole new tank to cost


For 10g $10 tank, $10 peat moss, $3 sand, $8pc select, $20-30 plants, $10 eggcrate, $10 reflectors, $5 spiral tubes.


> 9:how can I add wood to my tank without altering the Ph


soak it first?


> 10: How often till I can add a pleco?


too big for a 20g or so.


> ...


enjoy this hobby. Just don't make it too hard or expensive. You can do a lot by contacting people in your local area.


my .02


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*You said you wanteda filter with mechanical and biological. The biological filter is the beneficial bacteria in the tank necessary to break down the 3 nitrogens. My filter only does mechanical. And I dont use carbon, so therefore I dont use chemical filtration.*

1: What size tank is best for a newbie tropical freshwater tank, and how much I could get one for
*I used a 20 and its working out very fine for me. I now upgraded to a 55.*

2: If said tank doesn't come with a hood, what kind should I get and with what kind of lights for plants?
*If you are wanting plants I suggest you make your own hood. its as simple as hooking up an extension cord to a light socket and add a bulb. If you want more lights you simply add more sockets connected parallel or in a series. Very easy. But if you are not growing plants, any hood that provides light will do. *

3: what non-plastic gravel can I add that will be a dark color and not mess with the Ph
*If plants, use eco-complete. If no plants, any gravel should work.*

4: What test kits to buy
*Test kits are good to make sure what happened to the tank when it does. If a fish or shrimp dies in my tank, i test my water parameters just to make sure. API Liquid Test kits. I got the master so it includes everything. Technically you only need Ammonia and Nitrate to know if the cycle started or has finished. *

5: how often and how to perform partial water changes, and how often to check the water with the test kits
*Since you are looking at fishless. You only do 1 big water change at the end of your fishless cycle. And once you get your tank started up, water changes can occur weekly or bi-weekly. This depends on the tank. My tank is heavily planted and always has 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate so i do water changes every 3 weeks just to renew the water. Before I could not get nitrates below 5ppm so I did water changes bi-weekly.*

6: how to introduce fish to my tank, and how often can I add a fish till the tank is stocked?
*You add the fish only, throw the water that came with the fish bag away. The more room for the fish to swim the better*

7: how do I perform a fishless cycle
*You add ammonia until it reads 5 or 6 ppm. If it lowers the next day, add more to maintain it at 5 or 6. Give it time and you should see nitrite readings. Give it more time and you will see nitrate readings. Once ammonia and nitrite both read 0 and nitrates has a reading, means you are done. One big water change at the end to lower nitrates. Dont vaccuum the gravel.*

8: how much should I expect a whole new tank to cost
*my 20g costed me $60 all together because of the filter, eco complete and other necessities.*

9:how can I add wood to my tank without altering the Ph
*you will need a LOT of wood to alter the pH. I have not been able to alter he pH with driftwood. The only way my pH lowers is by using CO2 injections for plants.*

10: How often till I can add a pleco?
*Anytime after cycle is complete IF you get the one that doesnt outgrow your tank.*


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

And if you want a tank right now petco or petsmart is having a sale on tanks for a $1.00 a gallon. One store will price match the other.


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## Absolome (Sep 1, 2010)

what is vacuuming the gravel and how is it done?

I plan to have a medium planted tank, so not totally filled with plants but also not plantless. where can I get ammonia that is safe to use with the cycle?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

Absolome said:


> what is vacuuming the gravel and how is it done?
> 
> I plan to have a medium planted tank, so not totally filled with plants but also not plantless. where can I get ammonia that is safe to use with the cycle?


*Vacuuming the gravel is cleaning the gravel. It looks like hose with a bigger hose connected to it. 

I got my Ammonia at Ace Hardware store. It must not contain any additives like scent and etc. The one you want should say 10% ammonia, and I think the other 90% is water. Shake to make sure and if the bottle foams and doesnt settle fast its the wrong one.*


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