# Garra Flavatra Aggression



## jvance

I do not believe by any degree that my following anecdote is of serious concern, but all the same I wanted to get more than one opinion on the situation. 

I recently purchased a male "Panda Garra" (Garra Flavatra) that is nearly full size of about 3.5". I was attempting to put a pair of Bolivian Rams in my 20g long tank as my "larger fish", but after several attempts none would pair and territorial behavior was beyond my liking. After researching that the Ram would do fine on her own I decided to get a fish of similar size to replace the other Ram, the Garra. 

About 85% of the time he is quite docile and does well as a community member among six guppies, 8 Harlequins 2 Otocinclus macrospilus and a longfin bristlenose pleco. The Garra is quite fond of chasing around the Bolivian Ram around the tank for a good 10 seconds or so quite aggressively but most of the time they are fine in each others' company. He will sometimes chase the guppies and tetras around if he is roused by feeding. The most interesting part is that the other suckermouth fish I have in the tank go practically unnoticed by him, and I have researched that the tendency of the G. Flavatra is to be aggressive towards like species. Opposite case here. 

I assume that he prefers chasing the Ram out of "good sport" due to the fact that the Ram is really the only fish that can swim well enough to be chased. If anyone has any other insights to this, they are very welcomed. If not, hopefully this anecdote will help other aquarium enthusiasts better understand fish behavior. I suppose my ultimate question is: Does a fish of this anatomy have the ability to injure the others?

Thanks for reading!
I have pictures of both fish in my gallery


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## coralbandit

Upon reading up on this fish I find it very interesting.One common name for this "Dr.Fish" as it is the fish used in spas to eat/pick at peoples feet(for the most part, but using this fish for psoriasis/and other skin ailments is noted).The fish comes from rivers with strong(seasonal) currents and enjoys swimming in a strong current.Those two things being considered(nibbles on "dead flesh" and preference for"strong current") would lead me to believe it could be a major pest to tank mates.Although many of the reports said unfriendly to conspecific,they also reported that most captures in the wild was from slow/shallow pools in rivers(during seasonal lull) and that "schools" of them were present(along with a few other species).I would try five of them together although a social hyarchy was noted this rings true with many species.The more there are the more you spread out the "beatings".If more of the same are not possible ,then I would strongly consider other mates fast enough(torpedo shaped in general) to elude.Although chasing sometimes seems mere play this can only be an observation as none of know what the fish being chased is thinking(scared/stress/disease/death).Also noted was similiar behavior to SAE whom are known to "hook on" to other tank mates and remove enough of slime coat to cause;stress,disease,death.Very interesting fish(possibly a good find) and truely a unique species.Good luck,hope this helps(a little).


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## jvance

Tom (coralbandit),

Amazing research and thoughtful input on this topic. Your contribution is extremely appreciated. 

Being that I am restrained to a 20 gallon long tank for probably the next six months I am stuck with the current lineup in a planted environment with only currents from a piggy-back filter: 
8 Harlequin Tetras
2 Otocinclus 
6 male guppies
1 female albino Bristlenose Pleco
1 female Bolivian Ram
and a few shrimp plus one snail

Given this environment the G.Flavatra is doing quite well. Like I stated in the previous post, he tends to chase the female Ram around the tank every once and a while for about 8 seconds at the most. Most of the time they take no notice of one another and occupy the same area. I will concede that many species such as the Otocinclus, the Ram, and the Garra should exist in larger numbers, but I think it is obvious enough that my biomass is high enough for my tank size, at least. The interesting part of the behavior in this tank is that the Garra only seems to chase any fish but the Bolivian Ram. In some of my research on the Garra Flavatra I have read that it tends to be aggressive towards like shaped species. Perhaps the Ram looks somewhat like the Garra in body shape but I would think that the Pleco would be a more enticing candidate. However, those two I often see together and no aggression has ever been observed. What makes the Ram safe, in my opinion, is its ability to swim quickly at a constant pace (as opposed to quick "darting") and is always out of reach. For this reason I believe that perhaps the G.Flavatra is either making feeble attempts at domination or it is simply playful interations due to its lack of like-species. Either way, this is an interesting topic on a fish that is seen in the aquarium world more commonly all the time.


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## jccaclimber2

Coralbandit, you're mixing up a Garra flavatra with a Garra rufa. The people I've known with garra flavatras described them as peaceful omnivorous fish with good personality. They go well with danios and other small fish, so I'm surprised it isn't the rams chasing the garra. On the other hand, every fish is different.


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## jvance

jccalimber2, thanks for the clarification. On the whole my G.Flavatra is peaceful and takes no notice of smaller fish. Perhaps the size similarity is provoking hierarchy behavior. The Ram that I have is extremely timid compared to most Bolivian Rams. I have tried pairing her with 3 other rams separately in the past only to be met with the other Rams becoming totally dominant. She would end up only having a small corner of "territory" within a week. Since she was one of my original Rams, is not aggressive to others, and had my pity card to play I decided to keep over the rest. On the other hand, Bolivian Rams do not get to full size extremely quickly and I do not think it will be long until she is decently larger than the Garra. In that case the chasing may stop or reverse roles as you said. 

Only one worrying instance has been observed. During one chase, the Ram was put into an awkward position going under a log and the Garra ended up catching her and pinning her to the substrate for a moment, sucking on the side of her body right about where the black spot is found on a Bolivian Ram. I didn't really care about anything until this point since I know a suckermouth can't do much fin-nipping. However, I know they sure can take the slime coat right off of a fish that way and I was troubled. Luckily it appears to be a one time instance, but unpleasant to watch nonetheless.


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## jccaclimber2

Is the garra starved and looking for food? I've heard of omnivorous fish doing this when particularly hungry.


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## jvance

I certainly doubt that he is underfed (though he is a hog when I do feed). I am wary to increase the food put into the tank because recently I had some water quality issues that I believe had to do in part to overfeeding, but this was before the Garra. I might try to do a little more food to see if his aggression might lessen.


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## jvance

Just a behavioral update:

These fish are known to be jumpers and always have a note to have a secure lid on your tank. Right now in my 20g long I have 2 filters... I originally bought an AquaClear 20 (not knowing the size rule) and am now replacing it with a Fluval C3. To allow the new filter to acclimate I have both running simultaneously. I was sitting in my room and heard the occasional splash of the Garra doing his thing and took no notice. After a minute I looked over and couldn't find him anywhere, only to find him in the smaller AquaClear filter. Please note that this filter is very small compared to the fish and however he made his way all the way to the reservoir above the pump is a mystery. This is a 3.5" fish that was just sitting in about 2" of water. I think he may have scraped his fins a bit in this process, but no real damage was apparent. I am lucky I found him within 15 minutes of jumping in or else something worse may have happened. These are pretty crazy fish, in my opinion, I hope he doesn't end up killing himself someday.


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## jccaclimber2

I should have mentioned that. I've seen a 3.5 inch garra flavatra make it out of a container with the water level 10 inches from the top (acclimation tub). Lids, at least at the edges, are a must with these guys. Lids in the center may be useful as well. Every now and then I find an endler on the lid of my female endler tank and the only exit there is a ~1.5 inch hole 6 inches from the sides of the tank.


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## jvance

Not to keep perpetuating my tale of the Garra Flavatra, but I feel that it is important information considering they are relatively new in the aquarium market. Seemingly overnight after more than a month the roles switched between the Garra and the Ram. Now the Garra is afraid of the Ram and the Ram chases it probably more often than the Garra would. This was about the same time I found the Garra in the filter, so that may have been related. Either way, I have to admit that even though I like my Ram better she seems to be a bigger threat. She actually has a mouth instead of a sucker-disc, does anyone think she will potentially cause damage to the Garra if they are being territorial? It appears as if she hasn't tried to nip anything, just chases the Garra away from her spots, but I can easily imagine some bad things happening. At least the Garra can slip through smaller spaces than the Ram and can easily get away... for now. Thoughts?


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## coralbandit

If you know GBR is female, is her belly very red?She could be holding eggs and defending her chosen site to lay them.Some fish "spawn" with out mates or with the same sex(both cases unsucessfully).


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## jvance

It's actually a Bolivian Ram, not a German Blue, but there isn't much of a difference besides appearance. In any case, she's always had a bit of a reddish area on her belly because she is fairly translucent (it's actually kind of nice, I can always tell if her gills get irritated) but the coloration is certainly not abnormal. If anything it is less pink than it has been


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