# Filter vs Tank Size



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

Hello all, new here but not to the hobby. I have had aquariums for a long time from freshwater planted to artificial plants to saltwater over a course of 20 yrs or so. Never really setup up tanks totally by the book in the past but was always successful with them as they were nothing fancy. Just simple tanks, managed them by what I could afford. My current tank is a 55 gallon with a Fluval Canister filter with artificial plants and it has been great and I have had no problems out of it. 

Anyways, I am ready to upgrade to a bigger tank with a nice stand and canopy which I have already picked out. The new tank is going to be 75 Gallon freshwater. Here is my question. I am going to upgrade I guess you can say from a canister to a wet/dry filter. Now I know they make a wet/dry filter for tanks up to 75 gallons, but could I use one that is good for up to 125 gallons? I already have the filter, overflow and pump picked out. Would I be ok using a bigger filter? I figured it would be fine as long as I get the right overflow with the right flow rate that the filter could handle and a pump that could balance it out. Any feedback on this?

-Thanks


----------



## swimmatte (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm new here but have read that ideally you want to have ~2 gallons of filtering capacity for every gallon of water. I'm sure others will chime in.


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes you can use one for a 125 gal. It never hurts to over filter.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

most important is overflow and pump.If the overflow can't handle flow the surface of water will not be properly skimmed.Larger sumps are no problem and help to hold equipment(heater/uv...).Proper sizes are just that, I feel bigger is better.Make sure to figure head pressure for pump.Pumps can always be throttled down or upgraded, the overflow is really the key and truely determines how much water can be filtered.


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

Yes thank you all. One of my personal rule of thumbs is I like to over filter and always have, not for the sake of less maintenance, but because I like and want to turn the tank over more. It has always worked good for me in the past and I have had great results doing this. I figured I might get some heat for using a bigger filter...LoL I would use my canister but it's only rated up to 70 gal and this new tank is 75. So it wouldn't be enough. So I figured if I had to upgrade I would get a wet/dry in case I want to do salt some day. 

coralbandit, you touched on something that is what I am really puzzled about and what I've been trying to figure out. It's how to size up everything and what size to get. I know if I get a overflow that is too big the sump won't be able to handle it, then if I get a pump that is to big or small. So it kind of like a math puzzle which I suck at math...LoL

This is the specs of what I am looking at. Not sure how accurate they are as I have seen different specs in different places. 

ProClear Wet/Dry Pro Series 125 450GPH. Going with this one because I know a few friends that have it and has been a really good filter for them without problems and I like the design for what I am needing. 

CPR CS90 Overflow rated for 600GPH

So this leaves the pump. I have a couple picked out but what should I be looking for in terms of GPH with the above mentioned specs? Also any recommended pumps? Sub pumps of course. Quiet, durable, etc. 

So to wrap it up

Filter 450 GPH
Overflow 600 GPH
Pump ???

-Thanks


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll start with I think CPR over flows are the best.I use the 50 on a 29 with a mag drive model3 pump. The overflow barely,barely keeps up.My pump is split with a T and returns to both sides of tank and I still throttle it down.The over flow was given to me by buddy who finally got 75 g with built in overflow (tanks with built in over flow {Reef ready}are the way to go).I'm considering getting next up or the size you've chosen(even though I've said I'll never buy overflow again{reef ready tanks rule,and eliminate mis haps with syphon overflows,but are not available under 55G).You CAN have a skimmer larger than necessary(it will pull off suface better).So the price difference to up your skimmer size is basically nothing($10) as compared to buying another after the fact.The overflow can't run faster than the pump that supplies it(thats how it works.)My point is consider the largest/larger overflow and cost seriously.(I like to turn tank over10x an hour)For pump I use mag drives on all tanks(model24 on 180g reef ready{pumps from filter in basement to tank in livingroom} model 9.5 on 75g reef ready 4' head{all out full power}, and model 3 on 29g with 4' head,a T and 90's at top.) Head is linear feet of hose,a T or 90 = aprox.1foot.Also mags like to use large hose which until you reach 1" inside dia. increases flow.The mags have chart on box with flow and head.The CPR is diffacult to clean(inside overflow syphon) threfore possibly slowing maximum flow(which is certainly how it is rated) and have more(get larger cpr for the $10) clogging/slowing flow issues.Your over flow will not over power your filter the pump determines the turn over time,the overflow has to be able to (easily ) handle it.(higher flow on overflow than pump{really}).


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> Your over flow will not over power your filter the pump determines the turn over time,the overflow has to be able to (easily ) handle it.(higher flow on overflow than pump{really}).


Thanks for the response, since my last post and me and the wife talked and since this will be a project we are going to do a reef tank. Since we will be building this up a little at a time and taking our time we decided to do something we really wanted since we have to wait anyways.

The one thing that really throws me is how the overflow wouldn't flow more then the pump pulls.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It could be looked at like filling a bucket with a faucet; when the bucket is full it will overflow at the rate of the faucet.Overflows keep your aquarium filled to certain level always while running{possibly getting higher if overflow clogs or slows due to blockage}.In order for water to go into /through overflow the pump sends water.As long as skimmer can handle the volume(if it can't tank may overflow/ or skimmer/overflow will not draw from surface as surface will be above overflow) the water will only exit through overflow as fast as it is pumped(returned) to tank.Faster pump /faster flow(overflow has be able to handle) slower pump slower flow(can't come out faster than it is fed).Besides aesthectics bigger overflow is better and safer.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

CPR overflows are awesome. Matching everything in your setup is important not only for it all to work well, but also how it will all work when things happen like losing power. Selecting the pump is fairly easy. Most websites have their rating and what the true rating is depending on the return length, which significantly changes the rating. You'll want to make sure the overflow supplies enough water to the pump and in turn make sure that the pump is not pumping out faster than what the overflow can provide. You can make minor adjustments to the flows with the use of ball valves. Not always necessary, but they can make things easier on you if you're having problems.


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok thanks guys, thank makes perfect sense now. The overflow I am looking at is the CPR 90 which has a GPH of 600. The pump I am looking at is the Mag 5 which has a GPH of 500 so the overflow should be able to handle it no problem. I was thinking the Overflow would do 600GPH but that is just want it will handle not what it would actually do. So that is where I was confused, but it makes sense now since the pump actually controls the flow of the overflow as long as the pump isn't pumping more then the overflow can handle. Is that right?

What about the sump? How do you control the volume in your sump? I figure you have to fill it where you want your water line in your sump to be minus the water level in the main tank right?

-Thanks


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

To find proper(safe) level of sump;with overflow in place and hooked up to sump ,add water to tank.Without pump on water will enter sump and not return to tank.This is important as to not flood out of sump if power fails.Add enough water to have sump be 3-4 inches from full(how full is up to you really), but this is safe.After you think sump is "full" turn pump on and watch level in sump change(will get lower as pump fills tank).While running(a minute or so) mark with tape{some sumps come with" maximum level sticker"} the level water is at(while running).That will be the level you can top off to.The water level in your tank will never change(while running) unless overflow clogs/or slows.The level in tank is adjustable by raising or lowering overflow with thumb screws atteched to skimmer.The screw on back bottom "tilts"skimmer into tank or raises the front of skimmer out of water.Tilt in to help it draw water.You can also make skimmer tilted(left to right)if it is not centered in tank.This will draw water from lower side.Good questions so far, it won't seem so complicated once it's running.


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

I promise I am not a idiot...LoL This all makes sense and I am sure it will make more sense when it is set up. Just want to make sure I am purchasing the right equipment. 

I guess what I am concerned about is pumping the water out of the sump faster then it can go in. Since we are doing a Saltwater tank now I have changed to a Trigger Systems Sump from the ProClear so I have a Refugium. I am familiar with the adjustments you are referring to on the overflow as I have seen and read about that from it's product videos. So that all makes sense what you are saying. The Total Water Volume of the sump is 21.3 gallons and Operating Water Volume: 15.4 gallons. So if I let the tank fill the sump will it maintain that level when the pump is on? Won't that lower the water level in the the actually tank? I figured I would need to add water to the main tank to compensate for the water volume in the sump or is that not the case? 

A couple of safety measures I was going to put in place is to put all the power on a UPS and then when I plumb it use check valves to prevent back siphon from the return. That won't help on the overflow though as the sump will need to handle the overflow should the power go off as you mentioned. I just thought once the tank starts to fill the sump it will lover the water level in the main tank. 

-Thanks


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

water won't flow out of the bucket if the faucet isn't on(filling it).Water won't exit your tank unless pump raises level to go into overflow.Your sump level will constantly change(up when you top off/ or power failure [pump stops}), down if skimmer clogs/or loses syphon(tank will overflow{on your floor},or do to evaporation.The return line from the pump should NOT be more than 1/2-1" below surface of water in tank(or it will syphon back to sump).Check valves will work but possibly lower pump flow(takes pressure to open valve).I would get next size up CPR as it will only cost you $10 now/or $110 if you decide to upgrade later.The cpr being larger will only make flow smoother and more consistent(it will not increase flow rates){the bucket overflows the speed of faucet}.Your pump dictates the flow(it's the faucet).The volume of your sump sounds good(15 gallons running/able to hold 21 gallons when pump is off).You can top off to tank directly but the sump will change levels not tank(as extra water overflows to sump).


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

So with that said it is safe to say the main tank level is adjusted by the adjustments made to the overflow? Which also determines the the level of your sump too correct?

I am going to go up one pump size to a Mag 7 but I have also just decided that for a extra $50 we go to a 90 gallon. So now the size has changed. Which also means I will probably step up my overflow to the CPR CS100 Overflow Box. I may need to step up to a Mag 9.5 but I am afraid that pump may be to much as I am going to plumb it with 1/2" PVC and Nylon tubing. At 4' the 9.5 is right at 800GPH which is the max for the CS100 Overflow. At 5' it is 750GPH so I will be cutting it close. I am sure I will be ok though as the rise I am sure will be more then 4' since the tank is 25" tall and the stand is 30" that's roughly 4.5' right that not including the bends so the 9.5 should be ok with the CS100. 

Does anyone know where to find a good return line kit that can be hard plumbed? If I go with the Mag 9.5 I will have to go 3/4" if I go with the Mag 7 it will be 1/2". I found this kit which is nice but I don't think I want to drill my tank. 1/2" Inch Loc-Line Return Kit - Glass-Holes.com dope aquarium stuff Not that I am worried about doing it but once you do you have to live with that. 

-Thanks


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

ok;Before you even consider drilling a hole;look into AGA(all glass aquarium) reef ready.They have overflow and return line built in(called mega overflow.)They do not cost more than tank,overflow,return line.They make all of this simpler and better.I think I mentioned I would never buy overflow again(reef ready ) is way to go(easier,won't overflow{onto your floor when your cpr loses syphon} and is just better.Really ,really the way to go.AGA makes them from 55g and up.I have 75g and 180g(never buying an overflow again).On going from 75 to 90 no big deal but we never talked about light yet and since salt is really solid(it really is) the deeper the tank the stronger the light you will need.The extra hieght may be what you want, and if it is then get it, but it will not help you have more fish or help you light your corals any easier.I use the mag 9.5 on my 75(aga with mega overflow)and it runs full speed and is great.If you don't consider reef ready than go up one more size than you're saying for cpr(if the pump and overflow match you are maxed out and if the overflow slows{they will} you'll possibly overflow your tank(on your floor).GO REEF READY, YOU WON'T BE SORRY!


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> ok;Before you even consider drilling a hole;look into AGA(all glass aquarium) reef ready.They have overflow and return line built in(called mega overflow.)They do not cost more than tank,overflow,return line.They make all of this simpler and better.I think I mentioned I would never buy overflow again(reef ready ) is way to go(easier,won't overflow{onto your floor when your cpr loses syphon} and is just better.Really ,really the way to go.AGA makes them from 55g and up.I have 75g and 180g(never buying an overflow again).


Do you have a link to AGA? I have looked into the Reef ready tanks but the difference in price is almost $300. The place I am ordering my tank from can build in a overflow but it comes with 2 bulkheads. The sump I am getting can only handle one. Where going from 75g to 90g is only a $50 jump. Going from 75g to 90g reef ready is $241 increase then what I started with. Yes I am saving on not having to by a overflow but that's only $119 for the CS 100 and something a cost I wasn't planning on spending upfront. With my aquarium, stand and canopy for the 75g it was $600 +$48 for shipping. To go to a 90g it's only $53 more. To go to a reef ready 90g it would be $841 total and I would have to upgrade my sump to handle two bulk heads. So add another $100. Also didn't want to get a reef ready tank in case somewhere down the road I just want to do something simple then I am stuck with a reef ready tank and no reef. At least with a non-reef ready tank I can resale what I am not using for a canister filter to go back to freshwater if/when that should ever happen. Also this is a project and I know it will probably take a year to get it all up and running so $700 is a little more feasible to spend on the credit card then almost $900. Especially since I had planned to get things a little at a time. Also the Wife won't be as mad when the CC statement comes in. Little here and there softens the blow some...LoL May be something I will have to sleep on for a few. I probably won't be starting this project till after the holidays at the latest, so we will see. It may be worth it in price, but that is a lot more then I was planning upfront. 




coralbandit said:


> On going from 75 to 90 no big deal but we never talked about light yet and since salt is really solid(it really is) the deeper the tank the stronger the light you will need.The extra hieght may be what you want, and if it is then get it, but it will not help you have more fish or help you light your corals any easier.I use the mag 9.5 on my 75(aga with mega overflow)and it runs full speed and is great.If you don't consider reef ready than go up one more size than you're saying for cpr(if the pump and overflow match you are maxed out and if the overflow slows{they will} you'll possibly overflow your tank(on your floor).GO REEF READY, YOU WON'T BE SORRY!


The reason for the height in going from 75g to 90g is more viewing space. not so much to have more fish or help the corals with lighting. The lighting I am going with is 2x250w MH with IceCap ballast with Phoenix 14K lamps and then 4x54w T5s then 8 LED moonlights. Should be plenty of light. 

So back to the return kits. If I don't go reef ready what are my options as far as return kits. I just want to gather up as much information and research all my options before coming to a decision. This definitely isn't something I am going to jump into since it will be my dream tank...LoL


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Bulk reef supply(BRS) sells overflow you silicone to tank,glass drill bits,and bulk heads ,check them out(also CPR).My 180 rr is fresh water(still using sump).At my lfs a 120 g (48 ") rr is $420.If your have two bulk heads they could be Y to go in to single input filter.She may be mad about cost but no one needs "I told you so" when your cpr loses syphon,you struggle(as quick as possible to shut pump off{if you witness instead of finding all that can be pumped already all over your floor).I figured you seem to be planning (which is best) and I would just suggest RR.If not in means($) I here ya,I've been doing this for over 30 years and am on my fourth 6' tank.I didn't start where I am.


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

If I am going to go reef ready I prefer to have it already done for me where I don't have to convert a tank and do any drilling or silicone myself. I don't mind the drilling, but my silicone skills are lacking...LoL It only cost $140 more to make this 90g RR. That includes the glass overflow wall, two holes for the overflow, two heavy-duty schedule 80 bulkheads, then a black plastic acrylic cover for the overflow wall. So it's not a bad option. Seeing that the Overflow is $129 just a few bucks more wouldn't hurt. I just wasn't planning on spending all that at one time though. Which means I will have to wait a little longer if I go that route. 

Is it ok to do a Y from the overflow? If I went that route since I would be plumbing it I would do a 90 from one bulkhead then T the second bulkhead which would run to a 90 into the sump. That why I could run the plumbing along the top of the stand with a union and check valve. 

Even going RR I am still going to be needing a return solution? I guess at that point since it's already RR I could drill a bulkhead for the return but I would want two returns. One on each side of the overflow so I could get good movement. Then maybe plumb it the same way I did to the sump with one line where that has a T to one return that feeds to the second. I would definitely need a Mag 9.5 though. 

I think I may just go that route, will have to wait a little longer to do that but I am sure the benefits will be worth it in the end.

Ouch!!! If I go that route the shipping goes from $48 to $108 which when I started was just $648 shipping including for the 75g Non-RR, to $701 Shipping included for the 90g Non-RR to $906 shipping Included for the 90g RR. Have a lot of thinking to do. Don't think the wife will let me spend that all at one time...LoL We will see...


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

on rr return is in overflow.Neither drain or return are under pressure from aquarium water only 1-2 gallons in overflow.


----------



## Texan78 (Oct 25, 2012)

This RR tank only has the overflow, it doesn't have a return.
So ether route I go I still have to find a return solution.


----------



## Dave Waits (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi, been away for a couple of weeks. This is mainly for guys who use Waterfall types and standard pump-types but, the rule of thumb was always to use a filter that moved five times the aquarium capacity per hour. Why? Because most filters have their flow-rate measured without filter-media in them. Not sure what the efficiency difference is with Cannister types but I'm sure there's a loss with media installed. Although I did run a Diatom for a while(Pretty much dates my experiences) I can't remember it's flow-rates but it was more efficient.

Anyway, I did do a test once with a 55 gallon tank and a Aquaking Sump type Back of tank filter. It took one hour to pump out all the water without the media. With the media installed(2" of Carbon, one inch of floss(Dating myself again), and a peat bag it took one hour and forty minutes to completely drain the tank. So, media does slow down the pump.


----------

