# Really sick dwarf gourami... need advice!



## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

I have a 10 gal freshwater tank with an Aquatech filter. It is the one that also has the Bio pad. Not a fancy set up...

NO2 is <.03
PH is 8
GH is 5
KH is 3
My tap water is hard @ 9 so the past 3 water changes have been with distilled water which has reduced it to 8. I do a 20% water change weekly but did miss one weeks change due to illness. The last change was on 9/3. I wash out the filters monthly but have not done much gravel vacuuming because of the kuhli loach. Also, I have run out of regent to test for ammonia. Am I safe in thinking that as long as NO2 is in line the ammonia is also?

I have 3 sunset platys, 2 double bar platys, 5 small neon tetras, 1 small kuhli loach, and 1 powder blue gourami. I am writing about the gourami.

He has not been eating well for over a month now. He has only eaten maybe 3 times in the last 3 weeks but until 3 or 4 days ago no other changes. He is now hiding excessively, will not come out, does not swim to tank front or swim at all really... When I first got him he was very social and friendly. Anytime I was close to the tank he would swim and wiggle just like the others but now seems scared of everything. I have never seen any of the other fish nip or bother him.His sides are looking sunken and I believe he is starving himself to death. I have 2 different flake food, dried blood worms and also feed green peas weekly. I can not see any type of parasite, no sores or lesions of any kind, his gills look OK. I just don't see what could wrong with him. I am not seeing any clear or stringy feces... He has never been aggressive and would often hang back at feeding time so I would make sure he did get food by feeding him at the opposite end of the tank from the others.

Today I have seen him trying to swim up through a plastic plant so I know he is "scratching"? He just kinda hung there and looked so pitiful. I have also seen him sort of flinch (for lack of a better word), like a quick jerk really, but not shimmy... and only one time. I am really at a loss and he is miserable PLUS starving!
He is my favorite and I hate to see him die or have to put him down but don't know what may be wrong with him. I hate to just start dumping meds in unless I know specifically what may be wrong with him. Also so many meds are not safe with the kuli loach. I do have a 5 gal set up as well that I could move the loach to but don't want to spread anything that might be contagious. All the other fish seem happy, healthy, active, and have voracious appetites! Typical fish I guess! 
Any help will be gratefully appreciated, I do have numerous meds on hand and know I need to get something started soon but don't want to use the wron one.
Thanks in advance!
janintn


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## Northern Hawk (Sep 1, 2010)

i would really consider quarantining the fish in the 5GL tank u have... nothing visibly wrong with the fish... no white dots or massive lose of colour?


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

No not really... I have studied him best I can with a magnifying glass and all I did find was a few dots that look like fine black pepper. You can't see them without the magnifier. I don't know if they are normal, if he has always had them? He has his top fin down close to his body and has at least moved from the back of the tank to the front under some plant leaves so I can see him better. My 5 gal has fish also... I could possibly take a milk jug, cut half the top off and secure it inside the tank and add an air tube or something. That would keep his temp steady. Would that work or stress him worse? I will try to get a picture of him as you may see something I don't. I am really hoping he doesn't have that infectious bacterial gourami disease I keep reading about everywhere... i have spent days researching trying to find what may be wrong and not having any luck. He may be a little bit pale also. Thanks for your help! 
Jan


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## Northern Hawk (Sep 1, 2010)

a pic would def help... i'm sorry about the gourami. It's not easy trying to help a sicken fish without knowing whats wrong or knowing were to starting looking for the problem


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like a stressed fish. How much has your ph been fluctuating with adding distilled water? You said your water is a 9 out of the tap?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You should quarantine him. It does sound a bit like an internal parasite. But not totally sure of that. Try getting some frozen brine shrimp and giving that to him. You can also get foods that has garlic in it that helps to increase appetite. You can use a new plastic tub to put him in with a sponge filter and heater, even a 5 gal bucket. I wouldn't use a milk jug as that won't give him much room.


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

jrman83,
The distilled has brought it down from 9 to 8 over a 4 week period so not a sudden change. I was actually thinking last night after I posted that he was fine before I started the distilled water changes. Everything I read says a PH of 9 will eventually kill them all because it is to high. Should I do a change with tap/conditioned and see if that helps? Also, the 5 neon tetras were added about the time he took a turn for the worse. I have never seen any of the others pick at him though. They all tend to group together and he is a loner. I have the temp at 82.
susankat - I will only be able to make a quarantine tank inside the 10 gal. Don't have an extra heater but can make a small tank for him. He is not moving around much at all. Right now he is way back in a cave and just goes from the cave to behind a piece of plastic coral abd stays there.... My biggest concern right now is his not eating and the flashing I saw yesterday. I just purchased some Lifeguard All-In-One Treatment that says "Theraputic treatment for all freshwater aquariums" "attacks a broad range of external fish diseases" "Extremely effective against ick and fungus". Actually the symptoms for "flukes" seem to be most like his symptoms. ANY suggestions you guys can make... I really want to save him if at all possible! Thanks so much!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

janintn said:


> jrman83,
> The distilled has brought it down from 9 to 8 over a 4 week period so not a sudden change. I was actually thinking last night after I posted that he was fine before I started the distilled water changes. Everything I read says a PH of 9 will eventually kill them all because it is to high. Should I do a change with tap/conditioned and see if that helps? Also, the 5 neon tetras were added about the time he took a turn for the worse. I have never seen any of the others pick at him though. They all tend to group together and he is a loner. I have the temp at 82.
> susankat - I will only be able to make a quarantine tank inside the 10 gal. Don't have an extra heater but can make a small tank for him. He is not moving around much at all. Right now he is way back in a cave and just goes from the cave to behind a piece of plastic coral abd stays there.... My biggest concern right now is his not eating and the flashing I saw yesterday. I just purchased some Lifeguard All-In-One Treatment that says "Theraputic treatment for all freshwater aquariums" "attacks a broad range of external fish diseases" "Extremely effective against ick and fungus". Actually the symptoms for "flukes" seem to be most like his symptoms. ANY suggestions you guys can make... I really want to save him if at all possible! Thanks so much!


Try quarantine like you said, just dose the holding tank for right now. Give him some thawed out brine shrimp or blood worms. That should get his appetite up some. If those meds don't work try to find some for internal parasites. Usually comes in food.

When your doing your water changes, each time add more ro water than the last time. You need to bring the ph down. If you do this slowly over the course of a couple of weeks you should get it down to about 7.6 or so. When you get it there you should know the amount of ro to add to the tap.


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

Thank You! I will try that now!


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## Northern Hawk (Sep 1, 2010)

keep us posted on how its going pls


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi again Northern Hawk!
I bought a tank that you are supposed to put betas in today and removed the divider. There is a slotted insert in the bottom and a plug below that to drain the water. I turned the insert over, hooked up an air line to it, added aquarium gravel and made a homemade under gravel filter. It is only a little over 3 pints in size but it is the best I can do right now. I have it attached to the wall inside the aquarium so he has heat. I crushed one of the All-In-One tablets, figured the doseage out, divided it accordingly, added it to the water and put him in. He is NOT happy. Poor guy!
I looked at him through the magnifier and there are 2 distinct black dots on his upper side. Ther are smaller than the big end of a straight pin. You can see them without the magnifier but can see them much better with it. His scales are beginning to stand out like he has dropsy but none of the other symptoms. He is emaciated he is so thin. I will go to Petco tomorrow and try to get some brine shrimp to tempt him to eat. Offered him a bit of dried blood worm and no go. He is just laying on the bottom on the gravel but at least he is upright. I am really floored as to what may be going on. I was not aware that they are so hard to keep and of course the fish store doesn't tell you either... If stress is his problem I am sure I have made it worse by putting him in the small tank. Again, I would appreciate any help you may have.
Best,
Jan


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## Northern Hawk (Sep 1, 2010)

dwarf Gourami disease was what i was wondering about... i've read up on this a little bit and it sounds insanely brutal.... does your fish have a major bulge compared to the others? I've read some heartbreaking stories about the iridovirus on how it can destroy a whole tank.... tanks as big as 100 GL from whats been told to me... i hope it's not it... there such a wonderful looking fish too... its a damn shame


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

Will send pics a little later!


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## janintn (Sep 9, 2010)

OK... probably NOT the dreaded virus! He is so thin he is sunken in on his sides! Went to Petco tonight and told the girl there what was going on and she GAVE me a pack of frozen bloodworms and shrimp, plus a good dose of Melafix and some dried shrimp. It was so very nice of her! I have offered both and still he doesn't eat!!!! Does anyone have any other suggestions??? She said maybe he just wouldn't fight for his share of food (and he wouldn't) untill he just can't eat now! Would it do any good to soak a piece of the shrimp in garlic juice? I have plenty of that and will try anything! I will post some blurry pics of him at Fish in the next hour or so. Haven't had dinner yet and am starving so will post as soon as I eat a bite!
Janintn

Posted!


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## Northern Hawk (Sep 1, 2010)

well at least it isn't the virus... a silver lining i suppose but thats really odd that is not eating at all.... i'm honestly out of ideas sorry


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