# c02 injection for multiple tanks -- need advice



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi,

I'm exploring the possibility of doing pressurized CO2 injection on multiple tanks. Disclaimer: i've never done pressurized CO2 before, so I'm making a big jump here.

I'm willing to spend a little more money for a higher quality regulator that won't End-of-Tank dump on me. 

I'm thinking about the following regulator, with a quad manifold setup (one output per tank). Each of the outputs would have its own bubble counter and needle valve. 

Ultimate II CO2 Regulator | Green Leaf Aquariums

GLA also sells a 2-stage regulator for $460. I'm considering that one as well. 

Ultimate Two Stage Regulator | Green Leaf Aquariums

Trying to decide if the extra $200 for the 2-stage is worth it. Quad manifold adds $180 to the cost. So already looking at $400-600 for regulator + manifold assembly. I'm NOT handy with this kind of stuff and am fine paying professionals to do it.

With this system, I could use it to drive my 180 gal, my 75gal, my 93 gal, and possibly my 30 gal. 

My 75gal and 180gal currently have sump setups. The 75gal uses a Mag 9.5 pump and the 180 uses a Sicce Syncra HF 12.0 pump that's throttled back by like 40% (WAY too powerful, as it was used in my previous house to overcome 11' of head height, which is not the situation in current house, however). Anyway, for these 2 tanks, GLA suggested that I get a fractionating impeller (to 'chop up' the c02 really finely and a venturi assembly. For my Mag 9.5 pump, it looks like I can just use the following:

Venturi assembly:
Supreme Mag Drive Venturi Assembly W/Tubing and Muffler Fits Mag 9.5 thru 18

Fractionating Impeller:
Amazon.com: Supreme-Hydroponics 16745 Replacement Fractionating Impeller Assembly for Pump Model 9.5: Pet Supplies

For the 180 gallon, I think i may just end up putting in a MagDrive 18 pump + venturi assembly + fractionating impeller as the return pump. I will probably be able to repurpose the Sicce Syncra pump for a waterfall when I eventually convince my wife to let me build a pond somewhere...

For the 93 gallon, where I have two Eheim 2217s, I will just use an inline C02 diffuser.

For the 30 gallon, I will probably do an inline C02 diffuser on a canister filter. My aquaclear 50 on that tank and Penguin biowheel filter are not working very well so I am looking to replace them with an Eheim 2215 or something. 

Other than that, seems like I'll need to get a bunch of drop checkers (1 per tank) and a bunch of CO2 resistant tubing. What else am I forgetting?

As far as CO2 tanks, I'm thinking about going as big as possible since it will be driving 4 tanks. Maybe two 20 pound cylinders? Just keep a spare 20 lb tank on hand full for switching over? 

What do you think? I know the up-front cost going to be quite high, but I feel like my plants (and fish) would be a lot happier, as long as I don't screw up. 

Thanks,
-Zeke


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ben and JC will have the best advice and knowledge on this.But ,without looking at cost I would suggest looking into a seperate set up for the 180 and ganging up all the others.My 20lb bottle last about 2 months on my 180.I have a milwaulkee pH meter/controller that guides my co2.These are just thoughts and others will add in.
I do think co2 is the best thing I have done for my tank in the last ....well since I started building/modifying my own sumps,10 + years.My plants are doing great and I think my fish also benefit.
Glad to here you are looking into co2 and GLA has some great equipment.Can't wait to see where this goes!


----------



## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I have bought a lot of stuff from them and thay sell the best stuff.if I have a question I can email them and I hear back within a couple hours.i love my co2 system once I got every thing set.the co2 was a little hard to adj it took a few days.good luck on your co2 setup.


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I think It might be safer for me to just buy a system for the 93gal cube, use inline diffuser until I get comfortable with it, then I could get a separate system(s) for 180 and/or 75 and/or 30g later on. Will cost more but less overwhelming I guess.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Now just leaning toward c02 system for 93 gallon only.

Optimum CO2 System | Green Leaf Aquariums

with 10 pound tank...(if i want the c02 tank to fit under the stand), or a 20 pound tank (if i want to put the c02 tank in the mechanical room, behind the wall).

inline diffuser to put on eheim 2217 output:

Atomic Inline CO2 Diffuser 12/16mm | Green Leaf Aquariums

drop checker:

CAL AQUA LABS Clip'n Drop Checker | Green Leaf Aquariums


-Zeke


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

LOL, I was reading this and thinking, WOW, this is a big project and especially big if never having used CO2 before. 

I like the adjusted approach! The only regulator guaranteed against the EOTD is a dual stage. However, with careful and regular checking on your equipment it can easily be avoided. I think you have linked some pretty decent pieces.

What light do you have and will ferts be part of your plan also? I would recommend dry ferts, also available on GLAs site.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

On my way out for a couple days but that said:
1) EOTD isn't what it's cracked up to be, and unless you're already on the edge you'll be fine. If you're handy just plumb in a low pressure regulator right before the solenoid and you'll resolve the issue for less $. I'd love a dual stage regulator, but I'm not willing to throw the extra hundred dollars into it, and it hasn't been an issue for me even when the output does rise. Some surface movement, don't live on the bleeding edge, and you'll be fine.
2) GLA's stuff is decent and I love getting ferts from them. That said, there stuff can be a bit pricy (especially their drop checkers).
3) I don't have time to read the full thread and post at the moment (will on Sunday night or Monday), but the easiest way to do multiple tanks is a manifold with individual needle valves after the solenoid. Obviously all tanks will start/stop at the same time.
4) I'd start with one tank.
5) Make sure you fertilize as well if you aren't already (might be in the OK, see start of comment #3).
6) Bigger tanks are less hassle and cheaper to refill per pound of CO2 up to the 20 pound mark.
7) I do love my DIY reactors.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

Oh, and bubble counters aren't nearly as handy as people claim on bigger than about a 29 gallon tank. More like an "is it on" than a "how much am I flowing".


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I already have the dry fert kit from GLA's website, the PPS pro kit, though haven't used it lately. Would start using it again I start using CO2.

Lighting on the 93 gallon cube (30Lx30Wx24H) is two Finnex 30" fixtures (one ray2 daylight, one planted+). Do you think I'll need to add a 3rd fixture? If so, should it be another planted+ or another daylight?



jrman83 said:


> LOL, I was reading this and thinking, WOW, this is a big project and especially big if never having used CO2 before.
> 
> I like the adjusted approach! The only regulator guaranteed against the EOTD is a dual stage. However, with careful and regular checking on your equipment it can easily be avoided. I think you have linked some pretty decent pieces.
> 
> What light do you have and will ferts be part of your plan also? I would recommend dry ferts, also available on GLAs site.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I wouldn't bother with smaller than a 20lb. bottle.
Search "co2 drop checkers on ebay" and you can get them around /under $10(made of glass some with the 4 dkh solution).I got mine for $8.99 and it works great.I use 4dkh and API pH reagent.
I got cheap bubble counters(fluval) from kensfish for $2.99.They seem to work well and I have not detected leaks.
Most don't use pH controllers,but I do since I had it for free.It assures no end of tank dump since it shuts off solenoid when I reach target pH.


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I took Ben's advice a while back and got this CarbonDoser Electronic Co2 Regulator as simple of a setup as you can imagine and works like a charm.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have one of these that I am about to remove and sell.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nothing wrong with it by the way. Just upgrading to a dual stage.


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I think i *might* just bite the bullet and start wth dual stage myself, but if I can get a good deal on yours, I'll consider that too. Just PMed you. To get a little more mileage out of it, I think I will hook my 30 gal and 93gal to it, so will do the dual manifold option.

-Zeke



jrman83 said:


> Nothing wrong with it by the way. Just upgrading to a dual stage.


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Nothing wrong with it by the way. Just upgrading to a dual stage.


What benefits do you get from the dual stage?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

dalfed said:


> What benefits do you get from the dual stage?


Over the one you got...maybe not much. Maybe I just need to spend my money on something, lol. I have a brand new dual stage to replace it  My other two are now dual-stage so I thought I would do that one also.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

Ok, finally back in town. It looks like things have been reconsidered a bit since the OP. I'd like to add a couple things:
1) If you know how to smear pipe goop on something and turn a wrench you can add a manifold later. A simple pipe T will do, and these are available both at local hardware stores and online (McMaster Carr among others). IMO this is a similar difficulty as smearing tooth paste on a toothbrush and screwing the cap back on. The difference is that you'll want to run some soapy water over it afterwards to make sure it doesn't leak.

2) A dual stage regulator is like taking the steel rims off of your car and putting on aluminum ones. Do they work better, a small amount. Does catastrophe strike without them, no. Do they make their owners happy (the real goal here), often enough yes.
At some point I'll be putting a dual stage regulator on my large tank, but I recognize that it is a toy, not a need.

3) If you do go single stage, as the tank runs low don't adjust the needle valve, adjust the regulator to keep the pressure constant (or somewhere close to it).


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Ok, I think I am going to save my money and try to get a used single-stage setup... a dual stage GLA regulator with dual manifold is nearly $600! :-| I'm sure it's very nice and all, but not within my budget.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Also found some inexpensive drop checkers on ebay for $8.99 each. Great deal, thanks Bandit!

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

So here's my shopping list:

$130 - used single-stage GLA ideal regulator + dual manifold assembly + bubble counters

$111 - three new inline c02 diffusers from GLA. I will use these on the 1/2" output from my Eheim 2217s on my 93gal and 30gal. The third diffuser is a spare for changing out / cleaning old diffuser with minimal downtime.

$150 - new CO2 tank from Amazon. My local welding supply will be happy to fill/refill this for $17.50.

Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank New Aluminum CGA320 Homebrew: Kitchen & Dining

$20 - 20 feet of clear co2-resistant tubing from GLA

$20 - two drop checkers from ebay

Total cost for this 2-tank setup (93 gallon, 30 gallon) : $431

Not terrible I guess...If I'm happy with the results over the next few months, I'll think about setting up another system or two for my remaining tanks (180 gallon, 75 gallon), both which have wet-dry filters...

Fun!

-Zeke


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

zwanged said:


> So here's my shopping list:
> 
> $130 - used single-stage GLA ideal regulator + dual manifold assembly + bubble counters


Sounds reasonable. Is there a solenoid on that postbody? You'll want one if not. Don't forget a vacation light timer for the solenoid too.


zwanged said:


> $111 - three new inline c02 diffusers from GLA. One is a spare for changing out / cleaning old diffuser with minimal downtime.


I'm a fan of reactors, but this is a reasonable plan too.


zwanged said:


> $150 - new CO2 tank from Amazon. Yes, my local welding supply will be happy to fill/refill this for $17.50.


I was going to ask about refill, but it looks like you have that covered. Aluminum tanks are nicer to carry around since they weigh less. They also look nicer if they are going to be out in the open. You may also try your local Craigslist as 20 lb tanks show up from time to time at about half that price.

I personally chose steel because not all CO2 tanks are the same height. The stem height varies an inch or so based on how it is threaded in and I needed that inch to fit the CO2 tank and regulator under my stand. I also don't feel like paying the hydrotest fee every few years and exchanging allows me to avoid that.


zwanged said:


> Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank New Aluminum CGA320 Homebrew: Kitchen & Dining
> 
> $20 - 20 feet of clear co2-resistant tubing from GLA
> 
> $20 - two drop checkers from ebay


Make sure they come with 4dkh, not just the reagent (DO NOT USE TANK WATER). If they don't you can make it yourself or get some from GLA since you're already putting in an order there.


zwanged said:


> Total cost for this 2-tank setup (93 gallon, 30 gallon) : $431
> 
> Not terrible I guess...If I'm happy with the results over the next few months, I'll think about setting up another system or two for my remaining tanks (180 gallon, 75 gallon), both which have wet-dry filters...


Make sure your overflow isn't sucking air, seal the top of your sump and you'll be fine on CO2 loss.


zwanged said:


> Fun!
> 
> -Zeke


Yep.


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

jccaclimber2 said:


> Sounds reasonable. Is there a solenoid on that postbody? You'll want one if not. Don't forget a vacation light timer for the solenoid too.


Yes, there is a solenoid on the postbody. The seller is going to change it out for me too to a brand-new one.



> I'm a fan of reactors, but this is a reasonable plan too.


Yeah I'm hoping it will work just fine...



> I was going to ask about refill, but it looks like you have that covered. Aluminum tanks are nicer to carry around since they weigh less. They also look nicer if they are going to be out in the open. You may also try your local Craigslist as 20 lb tanks show up from time to time at about half that price.
> 
> I personally chose steel because not all CO2 tanks are the same height. The stem height varies an inch or so based on how it is threaded in and I needed that inch to fit the CO2 tank and regulator under my stand. I also don't feel like paying the hydrotest fee every few years and exchanging allows me to avoid that.


Height won't be an issue, as this will be going in my mechanical room. I think I might want to take some measures to secure it against the wall / keep it from getting knocked over. Any suggestions?



> Make sure they come with 4dkh, not just the reagent (DO NOT USE TANK WATER). If they don't you can make it yourself or get some from GLA since you're already putting in an order there.


I think my tap water is about 4dkh... Can i just use that?


> Make sure your overflow isn't sucking air, seal the top of your sump and you'll be fine on CO2 loss.


What' the best way to seal the top of my sump? i have hoses going everywhere in it...:-| it's a bit of a mess. Though I don't have to worry about this for a while...the current tanks I'm doing now don't have sumps.



> Yep.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

zwanged said:


> Height won't be an issue, as this will be going in my mechanical room. I think I might want to take some measures to secure it against the wall / keep it from getting knocked over. Any suggestions?


Get a short section of chain at the hardware store. Secure it around the upper half of your tank with two eye bolts, hooks, screws, carabiners, whatever. Once you get it installed (doesn't need to be super tight), lean the tank over and see if it can fall.


zwanged said:


> I think my tap water is about 4dkh... Can i just use that?


If you want to bet that there aren't any buffers (like phosphates) in your water, and that your water has the same hardness year round (including summer dry times and spring floods) then yes, you can.


zwanged said:


> What' the best way to seal the top of my sump? i have hoses going everywhere in it...:-| it's a bit of a mess. Though I don't have to worry about this for a while...the current tanks I'm doing now don't have sumps.


Acrylic with holes for pipes and tape around the edges is the common solution. I don't actually have the top of mine sealed, but mine is completely flooded aside from an emergency overflow/top off chamber, not a wet-dry.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You want the 4dkh standard. Using your water may mean you have times that your drop checker is giving the wrong indication.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

jccaclimber2 said:


> If you want to bet that there aren't any buffers (like phosphates) in your water, and that your water has the same hardness year round (including summer dry times and spring floods) then yes, you can.


For clarification, the above should be read as "Technically yes, but you really shouldn't".


----------

