# new ten gallon tank



## crazyfire (Feb 7, 2013)

Hi, I am thinking of starting a new ten gallon tank with the following fish: two kulhi loaches (sense they are social but not schooling) 5 neon tetras, a few cherry shrimp or nano crabs, and maybe a betta if space permits. Is this too much for a ten gallon? I know the kulhi are 4 inches but i read that sense they are long and thin they counted as a 2 in fish? Which fish should i start the cycling process with? Also if that is too much could I sub in endless liverbears for the neons sense they stay a bit smaller (1 in instead of 1.5 in)


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

The kuhli loaches should be in groups of at least five, neons have very little bio load same as shrimp. If you forget about the betta I think this should work for you. Please do not use any fish ever to cycle your tank!! http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html this is a great read and the right way to cycle you're tank.


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## crazyfire (Feb 7, 2013)

If I were to get the endless live bears instead of the neons (I like both about equally so I could really go either way) could I think get the betta? Also I know that most schooling fish need to be in groups of 5 or more but I thought that social fish just needed a buddy or two?(Source: Kuhli Loach Profile) Was I miss informed and kuhli loaches a schooling fish? If not what is the difference between the two? I look into the fishless cycle assuming it doesn’t cost be a lot (college student on a tightish budget).


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

crazyfire said:


> If I were to get the endless live bears instead of the neons (I like both about equally so I could really go either way) could I think get the betta? Also I know that most schooling fish need to be in groups of 5 or more but I thought that social fish just needed a buddy or two?(Source: Kuhli Loach Profile) Was I miss informed and kuhli loaches a schooling fish? If not what is the difference between the two? I look into the fishless cycle assuming it doesn’t cost be a lot (college student on a tightish budget).


Just read your link and it says minimum tank 20 gallons and three or more? Bettas are really hit and miss some won't bother anything and some will terrorize everything in your tank especially the shrimp or crabs when they molt.


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## crazyfire (Feb 7, 2013)

Well I guess it would be illogical of me to take one item out of the website and disregarded the other but would it stress them out if I got 3 or 4 so I could get the betta. As far as the betta itself goes assuming i put it in last (so it doesn’t consider the tank his right off the bat) and have plenty of places to for my shrimp to hide when they are molting I think it would be ok. The way I see it is if I get a meanie I could just return it to the pet store and try again. (btw I’m not trying to quibble just trying to find an optimal setup for my fish tank )


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Give it a try just keep an eye on it and be prepared to act hopefully it all works out


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If you get a female betta you should be fine, as they are much less aggressive than their male counterparts. I would say 5 neons and a female betta or 5 endlers and a female betta works.

Do NOT put loaches and shrimp/crabs in the same tank! The loaches will chow down on the shrimp. Do loaches, or do shrimp/crabs. I prefer red cherry shrimp, but there's also Mexican Dwarf Lobsters and Thai Micro Crabs that are also lots of fun.

And welcome to the forum, BTW


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## crazyfire (Feb 7, 2013)

Gizmo if I understand what you are saying I can either do 1 female betta, 5 neons or endless and either the shrimp(crab, lobsters ect) or the loaches correct? 
Also If i got a baby betta would it be more apt to be friendly if it grew up will all my fish? 
Are there any other 2-2.5 full body fish that would do well by themselves (so I could avoid the betta drama)?
Assuming I do the fishless cycle first I am still assuming that I could not add all the fish I want at once so what would be the optimal order in which to add them?
Tks for the welcome I’m glad to be here


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

A dwarf gourami is also an option for a larger solitary fish. The larger fish like gouramis or bettas will still try and eat your smaller invertebrates like dwarf shrimp.

If you're looking for a nice centerpiece fish but don't mind having a slightly smaller one, consider a male scarlet badis. They're very awesome little guys.

For adding fish after a fishless cycle, you're right that you can't add all at once or you might shock your tank and cause ammonia/nitrite spikes. I would add the neon tetras or the endlers first, then the shrimp/crabs/lobsters or the loaches, then your centerpiece fish.


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## crazyfire (Feb 7, 2013)

Just a random question but can the scarlet badis life in a 1 gallon tank? with a small snail maybe?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> If you get a female betta you should be fine, as they are much less aggressive than their male counterparts.


This is not always true. Take into consideration you have a fast aggressive fish, with little fins to weigh her down. This makes her more agile. The males at least are usually( unless you get a plakat male) weighed down a little by the finnage. I have had ladies ten times more aggressive than males. As a matter of fact I have told you about the male killer I tried numerous times to spawn, to no avail. She was much faster and meaner, even to a male who was younger by far, and I figured she would act more civil. They can be nasty little girls.

A betta with shrimp is almost asking to have the shrimp wiped out regardless of hides. If any do survive, they will stay hidden and stressed. Then perhaps starve to death. All bettas have their own personality. If you have a friend who has a betta that is lax in nature, you cannot guarantee yours will be as well, male or female. 

My advice, I would look into a shrimp only planted tank, or research smaller species. The Elassoma Gilberti - Pygmy sunfish -are great little fish and would fit the ten gallon well. There are several other species as well.



crazyfire said:


> Also If i got a baby betta would it be more apt to be friendly if it grew up will all my fish?


Not really. They are jarred for a reason. Breeders start to jar the fish, males and females, once they see aggression between them and their siblings. This is to keep the stress down and the fins in decent shape as well as prevent possible losses.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Learned something new today. Thanks Bev


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