# Newbie with a used tank find



## chaostoday (Apr 7, 2014)

New to site and a tiny bit more experience than a beginner but not even a novice and not afraid to admit it. I have been using search and learning a lot but have some specific questions to this tank. 
I just got my kids a used fresh water tank that has a large Algae eater and no fish. Tank was not maintained well and is at least 5 years old. 20 gallon. Threw the filter in the trash and bought a Fluval aquaclear 50.
Did a 75% water change and have just taken the tank and substrate to the bath tub.
Cleaned the tank well with vinegar, razor blade (Glass tank) and water and got off the tough stuff.
Rinsed and soaked the substrate in a 1 cup bleach mix in a gallon of water for two hours.
Rinsed the substrate well but does the substrate have to dry before putting back in the tank with 75% fresh water and 25% old??
If so, how long will the algae eater survive without a filter and heater?

I think I need a new heater too. Old one is about 5 years old. Not sure how good. Aqueon 100W that came with tank.

Thanks for all the help and great advice.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

The substrate does not need to be dry but it should be rinsed thoroughly if you soaked it in bleach. Maybe even soaked in dechlorinated water. The "old water" is not necessary as most of the beneficial bacteria was in the filter. The fish won't last long without a heater and more importantly clean water and oxygen which will be depleted fast if there's no source. You're going to have an uncycled tank if you threw the old filter out. My suggestion it to take this fish to your local fish store and see if they will adopt it out. If you chose to put the fish in the uncycled tank you will need to do lots of testing and water changing to keep the levels down to safe for the fish. Here's a couple of links to check out.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fish-poop-you-primer-8310.html
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

welcome


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## Allanira (Mar 28, 2014)

The substrate doesn't need to be dry. You will need to soak it in dechlorinated water and rinse the crud out of it. The longest the fish will survive without heat and filter I would give it a week. You have also killed and removed all of your beneficial bacteria. So you will have to start all over on cycling the tank. I suggest selling the fish and starting everything from scratch. That way you have time to get all the equipment, let everything settle, and decide exactly what fish you want to put in. It's not about your ability to keep the fish, it's about safety of the fish, and making sure everything is good to go. The fish thats in there is probably not happy about the size of the tank. 20 gallons isn't big enough for a large algae eater/pleco. They need a lot more space because they can get up to 12 inches depending on species. In my 20 gal I have 8 guppies. Before that I never went over 10 really small fish. Good luck on the tank. My son loves his guppies.


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## chaostoday (Apr 7, 2014)

Ok. I have the tank back up and running. It does have a new filter and 75% new water. It is conditioned and I have added some Bacterial supplement to the new water.
Heater is working good from what I can tell and the tank is at 82 degrees.
The Pleco who my daughter has appropriately named "Eater 2" (She lost a pleco years ago) is in the tank. I can't believe he has survived this all. He is about 3 years old (What they told me) and about 10" long. The tank was horrible!! I had gotten immediate advice from a "Fish" person at Petco who came highly recommended and she was the one who suggested the bleach solution and a 75% water change. She knew of the new filter and still suggested it. I think I'm going to take some other advice from the site and rehome him so he can be in a better environment.
I didn't realize that most of the good bacteria was in the filter. It was a plain Aqueon filter with a removable/ disposable filter cartridge. I assume that when you change cartridges that it takes the good bacteria with it also as there is nothing else in the filter unit that stays other than the hard crap....lol
I would like to add some "Hearty Fish" to the tank. Maybe about 3 or 4 to help get the nitrogen cycle going. Is that correct?
I thought pleco's were a good thing for the tank and its algae? Is it just that he's too big? I didn't realize how tough they were and also how messy...


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## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

I think you made the right choice by rehoming the pleco. A 20 gal really isn't enough for him to grow. There are several smaller fish that will do well in that size. I have learned (and read) that a 20gal is harder to start/keep than say a 55gal. Because of their size, water parameters are more difficult to maintain. If you could or wanted, a bigger tank wwould be awesome. But if not, I understand.

As far as the nitrogen cycling/new tank syndrome goes, there are several good sites(including those one) with tons of information on the subject you can find with a simple search. It is a bit overwhelming but it's better to learn now than the hard way like many of us have. Since you have no fish now (or won't soon), you could do a fishess cycle. With fish is fine too but there are some pros and cons for both ways. Cycling can take anywhere between a couple weeks to several weeks depending on several factors. I'm glad you cleaned everything thoroughly and got a new filter. Do you have any water test kits for ph, no2, no3, gh and ammonia? They're pretty cheap and will help out a ton when cycling the tank and after. It's important to keep an eye on these as they all play an important role in what condition the water is in and will let you know what's wrong and how to fix it. Many fish prefer different types of water like hard or soft. Some prefer a higher ph than others, though maintaining a stable ph is more important than constantly tampering with it (with fish in the tank), as a sudden ph change is very harmful for them.

Depending on what fish you want will determine how many fish you can have and what type of tank to set up. It takes a lot of researching to get everything right but once it is, you'll feel like you can take on anything. Sorry for the length of this. There is just so much info to cover! There are so many good people here that have much to offer in terms of advice and personal experience. So ask away!


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## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

chaostoday said:


> Ok. I have the tank back up and running. It does have a new filter and 75% new water. It is conditioned and I have added some Bacterial supplement to the n..w water.
> Heater is working good from what I can tell and the tank is at 82 degrees.
> The Pleco who my daughter has appropriately named "Eater 2" (She lost a pleco years ago) is in the tank. I can't believe he has survived this all. He is about 3 years old (What they told me) and about 10" long. The tank was horrible!! I had gotten immediate advice from a "Fish" person at Petco who came highly recommended and she was the one who suggested the bleach solution and a 75% water change. She knew of the new filter and still suggested it. I think I'm going to take some other advice from the site and rehome him so he can be in a better environment.
> I didn't realize that most of the good bacteria was in the filter. It was a plain Aqueon filter with a removable/ disposable filter cartridge. I assume that when you change cartridges that it takes the good bacteria with it also as there is nothing else in the filter unit that stays other than the hard crap....lol
> ...


I missed this post when I replied.. but it seems like you're catching on quickly. Lol. I think 3 or 4 hearty fish would be alright. If they are schooling fish, 5 or 6 may be better. Careful with adding so many at once though as the ammonia will spike. 

As you stated, the pleco is VERY messy. Most people will tell you that they make much more of a mess than they eat up in algae. And yes, I am pretty sure 10" is too big for a 20 gallon. They grow even bigger than that and need at least a 55gal IMO.


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## Allanira (Mar 28, 2014)

You can add a sponge to the intake tube that will hold bacteria, also when I start my 55 again I would rinse the filter in the old tank water and reuse one and replace one. I alternated every 2 weeks which one to replace. That way I always had bacteria that was healthy along with the sponge. If you can you can add a sponge filter behind the carbon filter and rinse it only in tank water. That way you get the gunk off it but keep the bacteria. In my 20 I have 8 guppies in my son's room. When I get this 55 going it will only have 2 Texas Cichlids. I'm a purist when it comes to my fish for the most part. Well I wish you all the luck with your new tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think I would have just gotten fresh gravel if I was going to bleach everything. Old water will do you no good either. Water holds nothing that transfers very well and not beneficial bacteria in the water column.

I hope you have at least an ammonia and nitrate test kit. Until your tank has completed the nitrogen cycle I would do at least 50% every time you change it. Lower % changes have very little affect in lowering harmful things to your fish.


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## Allanira (Mar 28, 2014)

Do any of your friends have aquariums? If so see if they will let you have some of their gravel. Then put it in your tank. That way you can start the seeding process. Also see if they will let you toss a sponge filter in their tank for a week or two to seed the sponge with beneficial bacteria. When I originally started my 55 I did it and the cycle went fast.


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## chaostoday (Apr 7, 2014)

OCTOhalie said:


> As far as the nitrogen cycling/new tank syndrome goes, there are several good sites(including those one) with tons of information on the subject you can find with a simple search. It is a bit overwhelming but it's better to learn now than the hard way like many of us have. Since you have no fish now (or won't soon), you could do a fishess cycle. With fish is fine too but there are some pros and cons for both ways. Cycling can take anywhere between a couple weeks to several weeks depending on several factors. I'm glad you cleaned everything thoroughly and got a new filter. Do you have any water test kits for ph, no2, no3, gh and ammonia? They're pretty cheap and will help out a ton when cycling the tank and after. It's important to keep an eye on these as they all play an important role in what condition the water is in and will let you know what's wrong and how to fix it. Many fish prefer different types of water like hard or soft. Some prefer a higher ph than others, though maintaining a stable ph is more important than constantly tampering with it (with fish in the tank), as a sudden ph change is very harmful for them.
> 
> Depending on what fish you want will determine how many fish you can have and what type of tank to set up. It takes a lot of researching to get everything right but once it is, you'll feel like you can take on anything. Sorry for the length of this. There is just so much info to cover! There are so many good people here that have much to offer in terms of advice and personal experience. So ask away!


Thanks for the great advice. Testing water on Friday and hopefully adding some hearty fish. Prefer to only add 3-4 but don't want to disrupt the schooling fish comment you made. I'm spending some time reading up on the nitrogen cycle and other stickies so I can be more informed.


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## chaostoday (Apr 7, 2014)

Allanira said:


> You can add a sponge to the intake tube that will hold bacteria, also when I start my 55 again I would rinse the filter in the old tank water and reuse one and replace one. I alternated every 2 weeks which one to replace. That way I always had bacteria that was healthy along with the sponge. If you can you can add a sponge filter behind the carbon filter and rinse it only in tank water. That way you get the gunk off it but keep the bacteria. In my 20 I have 8 guppies in my son's room. When I get this 55 going it will only have 2 Texas Cichlids. I'm a purist when it comes to my fish for the most part. Well I wish you all the luck with your new tank.


I do have the Fluval Aquaclear 50. This is a 3 stage filter which I believe will let me do what your are suggesting. I have the foam insert, carbon insert and the BioMax insert. I'm actually told that I can wash these out one at a time maybe on two week intervals and change them on an interval about every 6 months. What do you think? This way I get rid of the junk but maintain good bacteria.... I hope I'm getting it.....


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## Angelcliff (Apr 14, 2014)

Welcome


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

The AC 50 is a good filter, you can leave out the carbon, in my aqua clears I left the carbon and doubled up on the bio media. What Allanira is talking about is a good idea, get a sponge, much like the sponge inside your filter, cut a hole in the middle and slide or over the intake strainer as a prefilter. And you should only rinse the media in your filter in old tank water.


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## chaostoday (Apr 7, 2014)

chenowethpm said:


> The AC 50 is a good filter, you can leave out the carbon, in my aqua clears I left the carbon and doubled up on the bio media. What Allanira is talking about is a good idea, get a sponge, much like the sponge inside your filter, cut a hole in the middle and slide or over the intake strainer as a prefilter. And you should only rinse the media in your filter in old tank water.


Thanks!! I understand about rinsing your filter in tank water to keep from killing good bacteria but doesn't that just put the waste back in the tank?
Should this happen simultaneously with a vac and water change. Maybe washing the filter in tank water then doing a water change?


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I think they mean rinse the filter media in the bucket of old tank water. Don't rinse them in the tank, just the water you take out of the tank

have a blessed day


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

chaostoday said:


> Should this happen simultaneously with a vac and water change. Maybe washing the filter in tank water then doing a water change?


Regarding vacuuming gravel/substrate and cleaning filter media, you don't want to do all this at the same time. Alternate between vacuuming and rinsing the media over a couple of weeks or so. If you have multiple sponges or whatever in your filter(which is a good idea), alternate the schedule for cleaning these too. If you rinse all your media and vacuum substrate at the same time you will be losing a lot of "good" bacteria and can cause your tank/filter to cycle.

What vreugy said. Rinse the filter media in a bucket of old tank water, not the tank. If you have to siphon some out just for this purpose, do it.


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