# sigh....we have ich



## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

Woke up this morning to ich on my three clown Loaches. After doing some reading I did the following. Turned the heat up, it's still climbing but I'm shooting for 83-85 and I added aquarium salt (4 Tablespoons) to my 20 gallon tank.

I checked the Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and the Nitrate 5.0 this morning. 

Yesterday I added a sponge filter so there is plenty of air in the tank for the elevated temp.

I removed the charcoal from the HOB filter.

In addition to the three laoches there is 3 black skirt tetras and a Golden Wonder Killifish and two plants. Is the salt going to hurt my plants?

So far the loaches are the only ones effected with the white spots or any other symptoms. That said, they are all eating like pigs and other than the spots there color is good and they have a fair amount of energy.

Is there anything at all that I missed?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This is the best info on ich out there;
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
Read it and come to understand the enemy.
If your going to stick with salt and elaveted temp(I would never trust my fish to this method) then you need to get the temp up to at least 86-88.Any temp lower only speeds up lifecycle and does not kill the ich.
Vacum the substrate every day to remove the ichs that fall off the fish.You can only kill ich when it is off the fish so if you just remove them it is as good.You will also be adding fresh clean water every day which is very important.
I'm a Kordon Rid Ich Plus guy,but AP quick cure has the same active ingredients and works as well also.The link will tell you that formulin and M. green are the best cure along with waterchanges.
Don't be fooled on day 1-4 that you don't see spots ,they hide very well in the gills of your fish and fall from fish to the substrate only to multiply by the thousands and return.Good luck and ask for more info after reading link if you need it.Ich is easily killed ,but you have to kill it or it will kill your fish.
Your plants and bacteria in filter should be fine through this process.Ich can only live off of fish,without fish ich dies in a week or so.


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> This is the best info on ich out there;
> Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
> Read it and come to understand the enemy.
> If your going to stick with salt and elaveted temp(I would never trust my fish to this method) then you need to get the temp up to at least 86-88.Any temp lower only speeds up lifecycle and does not kill the ich.
> ...


Thank you. I'll stay with the salt for now.....and read the link you posted.


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

okay so I lost the three loaches  and I've dosed the tank to make sure the other four fish don't come down with the ich. Next question. Should I do something in particular to my hoses and buckets I've been doing water changes out of, or is the parasite dead once it's out of the water?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

sorry about your loaches.
Your question is a good one.
You can rinse or soak your hose/ bucket with a 50% bleeach and water mix for a day or two just to be safe.
I really don't think ich will survive long if the equipment is really dry,but it can survive up to 7 days or so without fish so I would play it safe.
I would keep a real close eye on those other fish as IMO they are not "out of the woods" yet .


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> sorry about your loaches.
> Your question is a good one.
> You can rinse or soak your hose/ bucket with a 50% bleeach and water mix for a day or two just to be safe.
> I really don't think ich will survive long if the equipment is really dry,but it can survive up to 7 days or so without fish so I would play it safe.
> I would keep a real close eye on those other fish as IMO they are not "out of the woods" yet .


thank you. All I could find locally is the API Super Ich cure. If I'd used my brain I would have ordered the Kordon Rid Ich Plus you mentioned from Amazon but I will get some for next time if this doesn't do the trick. 

I'll keep a very close eye on them to be sure. I wish I knew when to be sure they were out of the woods. There are things I'd like to do to the tank but there isn't any use until this problem has been taken care of. 

Thanks again. Once this is cleared up I will bleach the bucket and tubing. 

Robin


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

I may get some disagreement but to be totally blunt IMHO Clown Loaches are ich magnets....
They are very suseptable to the disease and I'm almost to the point to believe they can be carriers of ich and infect others with no other outward signs until slightly stressed. 

Most of the time you hear about an ich outbreak there is a Clown Loach involved one way or another. 
Search Ich and clown loach and you can have a ton a reading material. 

I'm with Coralbandit...
while elevated temps and salt may help there are ther medications that can zap the parasite much faster and cause much less stress. 
The key to curing ich with minimal fish loss is quick reaction and quick effective treatment.
Salt and heat is to slow IMHO.


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

Buerkletucson said:


> I may get some disagreement but to be totally blunt IMHO Clown Loaches are ich magnets....
> They are very suseptable to the disease and I'm almost to the point to believe they can be carriers of ich and infect others with no other outward signs until slightly stressed.
> 
> Most of the time you hear about an ich outbreak there is a Clown Loach involved one way or another.
> ...


Do you think all loaches are this way or just the clowns? I'd love to get some of the yoyo or kuhli loaches when I get a larger tank.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

robinc said:


> Do you think all loaches are this way or just the clowns? I'd love to get some of the yoyo or kuhli loaches when I get a larger tank.


Seems to be more with the clown loaches in particular...


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## swimwiththefishes (Jul 31, 2014)

Howdy..

i had precious C loaches such a non hearty fish IMO very temperamental to water Q. Anyways, unless i read it wrong and for my own curiosity....Did you continue to feed when you did all this? If i recall how i ran my old tank (if i treated medically) in anyway I suspend feeding or reduced significantly depending on time frame and type of treatment) I simply add up stressors and make a judgment call. But was curious non the less. Sorry to hear the loss.

cheers.


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

swimwiththefishes said:


> Howdy..
> 
> i had precious C loaches such a non hearty fish IMO very temperamental to water Q. Anyways, unless i read it wrong and for my own curiosity....Did you continue to feed when you did all this? If i recall how i ran my old tank (if i treated medically) in anyway I suspend feeding or reduced significantly depending on time frame and type of treatment) I simply add up stressors and make a judgment call. But was curious non the less. Sorry to hear the loss.
> 
> cheers.


Yes, kept feeding them and they did fine until the day they stopped feeding and then they were all gone within the next 24 hrs. I've never heard that you should stop feeding. I think, and I could be way off base here, but if you don't feed then it's just that much harder to have the energy for the body to fight off the problem. Don't know....


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## swimwiththefishes (Jul 31, 2014)

robinc said:


> Yes, kept feeding them and they did fine until the day they stopped feeding and then they were all gone within the next 24 hrs. I've never heard that you should stop feeding. I think, and I could be way off base here, but if you don't feed then it's just that much harder to have the energy for the body to fight off the problem. Don't know....


You may very well be right. I was an aquatic tech, Nothing to do with aquarium fish etc, has to do with Salmon. the way I understand it and just assumed it is applied to hobby fish as well? Feeding is a stressor, as they feed they are VERY active and hurry hurry it amps them up (stressor), Digestion is a mild stressor same with changes in water quality it adds stressors, Sorry been a while and now im tired trying to think...LOL basically anything that differs from a constant and suitable environment and or influenced by Internal / external factors (medical or being dominated (internal) etc / tapping on glass (external etc) is a stressor add to many stressors can cause death. (heart attack) well call it. I may be way off base but I believe in that makes sense to me. I just choose not to feed normally when there are to many stressors etc. Thats just my 2 cents not really sure if it is even valid or not but ....cheers

here is what im dealing with ...Mystery spinules (white clear) slimey...trying some things out i have no idea what these are.







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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I can clearly see both sides here.Almost confusing even to me.I think lighter feedings could/would be advisable ,especially if meds have knocked down the BB in your filter and nutrients were on the rise.
I also always change water (daily even) when using meds which will correct poor water conditions due to BB die off.I do think having "enough" food to aid in recovery is important,so I do continue feeding through meds(I change water though).
I have mentioned that when my maintenance falls short I feed less .This is a helpful strategy to keep water cleaner as even if all food is eaten there will still be waste produced.


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## swimwiththefishes (Jul 31, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> I can clearly see both sides here.Almost confusing even to me.I think lighter feedings could/would be advisable ,especially if meds have knocked down the BB in your filter and nutrients were on the rise.
> I also always change water (daily even) when using meds which will correct poor water conditions due to BB die off.I do think having "enough" food to aid in recovery is important,so I do continue feeding through meds(I change water though).
> I have mentioned that when my maintenance falls short I feed less .This is a helpful strategy to keep water cleaner as even if all food is eaten there will still be waste produced.


Yes i would agree with that, that makes sense. So when the salmon were medicated they were medicated (most of the time) through feeding (medicated food) BUT that more than likey was the only way to med the fish as we had 100'x100' pens and was (is) ? the most economical viable way to get the meds in them to treat them. I think i would have to know how long is treatment (days) when the species of fish i have start to loose mass due to no or lack of food.. and at what point would NOT feeding them actually become the stressor as equivalent to feeding stressor) for me this is what i like about aquariums. dont know many if any people that use biomass and or FCR's. I, of course i say that now, am going to use it or try it see what kind of numbers i get. data data data. Wow need more coffee rambling srry  

Thanks CB and cheers.


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## StevenT (Jun 11, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> This is the best info on ich out there;
> Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
> Read it and come to understand the enemy.
> If your going to stick with salt and elaveted temp(I would never trust my fish to this method) then you need to get the temp up to at least 86-88.Any temp lower only speeds up lifecycle and does not kill the ich.
> ...


Salt and temp have worked for me in the past. I have also had good luck with copper safe.


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## robinc (Jul 15, 2014)

StevenT said:


> Salt and temp have worked for me in the past. I have also had good luck with copper safe.


I wish it had worked for me. Or maybe it did in part. I lost the clowns but was as far as the problem went. I broke down and treated the tank with meds just to be sure but none of the other fish ever looked like they were even thinking of getting sick.


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