# White spot (I think)



## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Hi guys.

I was recently given a tank from a family friend. It's a Juwel vision 180 and the specs are as taken from a website - Volume: approx. 180 Litres
Aquarium Measurements: 92 x 41 x 55 cm

We decided to put a few goldfish in all bought from the same store and it looks like there's been an outbreak of whitespot. I'm pretty sure it's whitespot but here's a picture of the one who has the worst of it










The tank temperature is resting at 24c unheated.

We've done a water change and removed the carbon filter and added the first course of interpet anti whitespot four days ago so it's due another treatment today.

Is there anything else I can do if this treatment fails?

Thanks for any help, just hoping they all pull through


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh and just to add, I've done a test for PH levels and they're at 7-7.5 not sure if that'll be any help.


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## startsmall (Oct 17, 2012)

Here is what I did....some may disagree with this because I know the product does not have good reviews....but it worked PERFECTLY for me.

Turned up the heat to about 81-82* F. 
Took out filter and put in a bowl of tank water to save bacteria
Added 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt (CHECK YOUR FISHES TOLLERANCE OF SALT)
Added 1/3 dose of Jungle Ick Cure Fizz tabs
24 hours later, 30% water change making sure to vacuum
another 1/3 dose of Ick Cure
24 hours later 30% water change with vacuum
another 1/3 dose of Ick Cure (No real signs left at this point but its the parasite you cant see that cause problems)
24 hours later 1/3 dose of ick cure fo rthe final time
24 hours later final 30% water change

This worked for me, I cannot promise it will work for you but that has been my experience thus far with Ick.


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Thank you, I'll try that at the end of the second treatment if it fails. From the picture does it definitely look like white spot? The white patches look bigger than salt grains so I'm starting to doubt whether it actual is whitespot or maybe something else.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

looks like ich.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hello Claypool
IMP I would stick with the Interpet for a few reasons. Orandas in that volume of water need the filter not being removed for even four days.Also to try and avoid the high temperature (for orandas) and salt if possible(though sometimes helpful). Iv'e not had to use the White Spot by Interpet but i think you're able to re-dose even after the secondbut, after a water change?


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks goldie, I haven't removed the whole filter, just the carbon pad as I've read it removes the treatment.

Unfortunately I can't adjust the heat as it just sits that way with the room temperature.

So I should go ahead with the second treatment and then treat again after another 4 days if no improvement but after I've done a water change? How much would you recommend?

Thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

No i meant the much higher temperature with the other med claypool.

The instructions are on the leaflet supplied with the treatment.,arn't they
Sorry in a hurry atm, just saw you answered via my mail


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh I see  

The instructions are pretty poor and hard to follow! The majority of the booklet is about various other fish diseases and only a small section on whitespot I can't even find the bit where it says to retreat after four days, maybe I imagined it or read it somewhere else.

Anyway, I'll follow your advice and post back with any progress, thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hello again claypool
Yes do put the second dose in. I'm not up with meds so rang my supplier so I don't give you wrong info. He said if you don't see some improvement a couple of days after this second dose he feels it's not going to work & you would need something stronger to try but, not anything where you have to remove the filter .The fish you have in that volume need the filter running & not losing any good bacteria I feel the posters in the States know better about stronger but safe meds than me so if the Interpet dosen't work they will i'm sure advise you on that.
I just looked at the pic you put up & see the red cap is really smothered. Is the redcap still strong because i was wondering if it could take a salt bath. I certainly wouldn't try it if its weak though. I dare not advise youto give him one because they can topple them over. Just saying if it was my fish.

How long have they had the whitespot (ich)claypool?


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow thanks for the advice goldie, really appreciate it.

Yeah the redcap is still acting normally, swimming around fine and still has an appetite. He really is covered though, well all of his fins are anyway.. it looks like he's got a bit of blood in his back fin now.

I have two other fish in there, a black moor, which has spots on his eyes and a normal goldfish which has small specs on his back fin. Also a plec, not sure if it has whitespot though as I rarely see it out and about during the day.

How would I give them a salt bath? Could it kill them even if they're strong? Is there a chance it immediately cures the white spot or something?

Thanks for the reply


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh and they've had it for around a week I think.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

nothing will cure them instantly.The pleco is a huge pollution machine and eventually needs to be re-homed.In meen time change water and add meds as often as med directions say.If/when disease is gone you will need to change water like every 2-3 days and around 50% of tank.You've got a group of fish that pollute(through their waste) more than almost any other fish.


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

50% every 2-3 days seems like an awful lot.. Are goldfish really that bad? The tank has a huge filter so I assumed 30% weekly would be fine. I've known people keep them in tiny bowls and they've thrived for years, no idea how much they changed water though lol..

I'll do 50% every 3 days though just to make sure, thanks.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

30% weekly would work.The pleco is as big a mess maker as goldfish(tough call which makes more of mess).


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi Claypool, hope your fish recover. I love Orandas too


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Okay.. a little update

I've done a couple more water changes and started using new white spot meds..

I thought the spots were clearing up a little but the fin is full of blood vessels now and when I checked before the fins and went really ragged and it looks like it's rotting! I'm not sure if it's the treatment causing this or whether it's got another unidentified illness. The spots are starting to look crusty, really worried now.

A couple of pictures to show what I mean



















Any advice?

Thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

If that was mine & that's a strong Oranda. I would clean the water up to get the new whitespot treatment out because it looks like bad secondry infection so all needs to be addressed. I would do several water changes with dechlor,really clear that water up (even use carbon for few hours) and get this in as soon as possible

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...moGoAQ&usg=AFQjCNHai5tV5i9Mr2laSOgFZyozdWeNJg
If the link dosent open its

SEACHEM PARAGUARD


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks Goldie, the fins look even worse this morning  

I'll check the petstore for that treatment when it opens in the morning, if not I'll order it but it'll take a few days to arrive, hopefully that'll be enough time.

There's some treatment that came with the tank called Melafix it says it treats

- Heals open wounds and ulcers
- Rapidly restores damaged fins
- Treats fin and tail rot
- Treats cloud eye

Would this be Okay to use in the meantime?


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

claypool, personally i wouldn't but it's your choice. What's the behavior of the Redcap.I don't see rapid gill movement but is it hanging all the time at the surface like it is in the pic or is it still swimming around the tank,also is it eating


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Goldie it has spells where it swims around normally, it's also eating. It does spend some time near the surface but also spends a little resting under the filter. Really thought I was making progress before the tail started disappearing. 

It's one tough fish though I know that much, just hoping it has the strength to recover from this.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm staring at the pics claypool.It'sbdeffo got bad finrot which you could get your Interpet treatments that you use today but, i was thinking of the Seachem because it's suppose to cover Bacteria plus whitespot as well.
Has it still got Whitespot (is it flicking) or has that cleared & this showing on pic the 'only' thing
What med have you got in right now & what does it cover


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

also i would have said increase salt but the pleco


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Not looking good this morning, this has spread so quickly. It's hanging at the top of the water with no fins and it has spread to the body by the looks of it, face looks swollen and looks like it has bits of cotton wool stuck to it.

The black moor is starting to act strangely and I haven't seen the pleco at all last night or this morning so I think I'm going to have to move some stones to see if it's still alive.

Going to get that treatment but I know it's too late now, if the redcap pulls through this I'll be amazed, never seen a fish look so ill


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Found the Pleco and it had passed away.. what the hell is in that tank *Conf*

Should I start adding salt to the tank now the pleco has gone goldie?


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Claypool, just adressing you Redcap atm. The cotton wool like stuff is most likely Fungus. It had White Spot real bad and this will be a secondary infection of Fungus and Finrot in my opinion.
I,m going to blunt Claypool.

If the Redcaps hanging at the surface and it's fins have dropped off,added to that the pic yesterday showed really bad finrot, now a swollen face, i completely agree with you in thinking it will not make it.

If that was my Oranda i would put it to sleep to save anymore suffering
That,s what i would do, i'm sorry


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

goldie said:


> Claypool, just adressing you Redcap atm. The cotton wool like stuff is most likely Fungus. It had White Spot real bad and this will be a secondary infection of Fungus and Finrot in my opinion.
> I,m going to blunt Claypool.
> 
> If the Redcaps hanging at the surface and it's fins have dropped off,added to that the pic yesterday showed really bad finrot, now a swollen face, i completely agree with you in thinking it will not make it.
> ...


Then if the Blackmoor is showing early signs of the same, i would clear the second whitespot treatment with big water changes. I don't know what second whitespot treatment it is but i would clear the water and add carbon for a few hours
When its cleaned up i would dose with Anti fungus and finrot 
oh well vacume the gravel as well (sorry)


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Right, about to do a big water change and I've already added the carbon.

Would I be safe to put in the medication as soon as I've done the water change or should I wait until this evening.

I've gave the redcap a salt bath and it has got no worse and the head is looking a little less fuzzy than it was before the bath so I'm hoping it's had a positive effect already, however unlikely that is.

Thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I would'nt put another med in straight away Claypool i would go with your second option, cleaning that water well up before adding anything else

Wo am i surprised the salt bath did'nt knock the Redcap out going on what you said about its deteriation. That's a fighter.


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Yes Goldie, it really is a fighter, it gives me hope that it might make a recovery.

Here's a few updated pictures since the salt bath




























As you can see a lot of the 'cotton wool' has gone from it's face completely but the fins are really damaged, if it pulls through will they grow back?

The black moor looks like it has no white spot but it has a slight white film covering it, not sure if that's the start of fungus? I also gave the black moor a salt bath just to be sure, hopefully that was the right thing to do, thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

well that's certainly cleaned the tail fin a lot & yes if it got through this its fins would grow back. I thought you said all its fins had dropped off lol
Is it gasping a bit because of the salt bath.Apart from the breathing that looks far better than the pic yesterday since the saltbath

The Blackmoor to me it looks like fungus as well, don't know about anyone else
Now the plecs not in there YES i would add Aquarium salt 'gradually' but after a good water change & carbon in to clear any med you have in and cleaning the gravel


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh I should have been more clear, sorry, all the the stuff between the fins has gone, it's just left with lots of strands that hold the fins together now.

What is a good plan to add the salt gradually? Just about to do a 50% water change now and I'll make sure I give the gravel a thorough hoovering. 

Thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Im always a bit nervy about telling people to give their fish saltbaths Claypool because their not my fish.lol i was picturing it with no fins, a swollen head and that added to the pic yesterday thats why i said that.
The fins look so much cleaner now. Keep us updated, fingers crossed here


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Okay I've done the water change and there's one bucket left to put in which I'm going to put the salt in with.. just got a few more questions so I know exactly what I'm doing.

Should I turn off the filter or remove the carbon once the salt is in the tank or leave them both in?
How long should the salt be in and what's the best way to remove once they've been treated?
Will I have to replace the filter pads once the treatment is done or just give them a good rinse under clean water?
Should I leave the airflow in the tank during salt treatment? 

I've removed all of the decorations, what's the best way to clean them to make sure nothing nasty is on them? I was thinking maybe boiling water to sterilize them? 
.
Also I'm going to buy a water testing kit, at the moment all I have is PH kit, what are the ideal conditions for Goldfish? 

Sorry for all the questions I just want to make sure I do this 100% right. Going to throw away all the medications I got given with the tank tomorrow and replace them with new medications so I'm prepared for the future.

Thanks.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I've written that down Claypool so i hope i answer all lol


Deffo leave filter running all the time & leave carbon in longer to clear the med

At this point i personally wouldnt replace filter pads
If they ever get where you feel they need a clean, just squeese gently only in TANK water (never tap ) because it will knock out the good bacteria on them

Airflow, Yes deffo keep running even 'up it'

The Salt.
I personally would aim for ..'.one tablespoon per gallon'
but, not all in one go. I would try and get to that amount gradually to see how they handle it
If while you're adding salt they show stress i would do a water change so it's diluted to a lower strength

Just leave it in but when you do your water changes remember to put back what came out with the water (i personally would write the salt adding down to keep a check on it as you add etc)

If you get to a point where they were alright again then do a few water changes gradually without replacing the salt

The ornaments, i wouldnt bother about then atm but yes you can boil them to clear stuff off them

I would get an ..API liquid test kit to test water on a regular basis
You can get them on Amazon, think their cheaper too from there

Your water needs to show on the test results

Ammonia....No Ammonia
Nitrite....No Nitrite
Nitrate...ideally below 20.ppm
My Orandas do well in a...PH 7.6 (close to that)

One last thing i just thought about
When you add the salt but gradually to make sure its well dissolved in the bucket before adding to the tank

I think that's all you asked but will check. Really hope this works out 

Today i would start with one teaspoon per gallon


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

goldie said:


> I've written that down Claypool so i hope i answer all lol
> 
> 
> Deffo leave filter running all the time & leave carbon in longer to clear the med
> ...


CLAYPOLLLLLLLLLLL NOT trying to kill your fish lol

sorry

ONE TABLESPOON FOR EVERY......5 Gallons

SORRY ABOUT THAT


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## Claypool (Oct 30, 2012)

Brilliant, thanks  They look to be doing well so far.. still hovering around the surface of the water but they haven't keeled over yet so it must be a good sign lol...


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

That is good they haven't keeled over lol. Hope they get well


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