# Culling fry



## danilykins

I've noticed one or two fry that have crooked spine like in almost an s shape. Should I dispose of those? What are some guidelines of culling fry?


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## majerah1

Well, depends on what you want to do.Most likely they will pass it on if allowed to breed.Culling can be done several ways.One,you can raise them up,and adopt them out with strict instruction to not breed them as they have the defect and it is genetic.
Or you can put them down like a larger fish,via clove oil or freezing.Or,feed them to a larger fish.It being bent spines,its not an illness.They will live if you let them,just wont be like the others,and may swim funny.


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## chris oe

Actually there's a disease that causes this, it isn't genetic. Arrrgh! I can't remember! I think it is a parasite, I think it might be intestinal flukes that causes babies to curve like this. Uhm -- I will look around and see. You might still want to cull these, I'm not sure if they will go back into the correct shape and I don't know if they are in pain in this shape, but no, they're not genetic, I thought for the longest time this was a gene thing, I had it in my tank, then I found out differently, treated for it and never saw it again. Arrgh! I'll see what I can find out. I need to write things down someplace where i won't loooose them.


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## chris oe

Right off the bat I'm finding journal articles about vitamin imbalances, especially excessive selenium causing spinal deformities in fry - might want to try changing your food - what do you use? Hikari has a good guppy specific variety that's not too expensive.


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## chris oe

Okay, here's my theory: I got my problem fixed by treating for intestinal parasites. It is entirely possible that intestinal parasites make things worse because they effect the ability of the fry to absorb nutrients from their food. But the journal articles talk about selenium displacing sulfur (?) and causing weak spots in the spine, and that this is more of a problem with some species than others. 

So I suggest a two prong attack: treat your tank(s) with a broad spectrum antiparasitic. I am pretty sure the one I used was just the tank buddies brand that cleared my problem up. I would also take a look at the food you are feeding, particularly if you can't imagine that your fish have parasites (no stringy or string like poop, that kind of thing). Is it guppy specific, is it at least for livebearers? If it is, we're back to parasites. If it isn't, it might be entirely a nutritional thing. Either way, these bent fish have a chance of going back to normal, there are reports out there of people who had fish grow back into a more normal shape. (but there's the internet for you, these were not scientists, these were tank keepers, or trolls, I don't know)


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## mec102778

I believe the disease you're lookng for is call rickets(SP). I have guppies with this problem, I will begin culling them by feeding to my cichlids. 

But absolutely do not flush them, I'd say put them in a ziplock and place them in the freezer before putting them in the trash can.


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## danilykins

Ive been feeding the babies, first bites. Now that they are in the large tank they are getting regular tropical flakes and anti bacteria food, along with some algae(the dried stuff that looks like its for sushi)


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## chris oe

mec102778 said:


> I believe the disease you're lookng for is call rickets(SP). I have guppies with this problem, I will begin culling them by feeding to my cichlids.
> 
> But absolutely do not flush them, I'd say put them in a ziplock and place them in the freezer before putting them in the trash can.


Nope, rickets would be in humans, and would have to do with vitamin d and calcium etc. and takes place where people, who produce their own vitamin d in the presence of sunlight need vitamin d supplementation in areas where daylength is short. Fish live completely without sunlight, under florescents their whole life without ill effect. This particular problem seems restricted to certain species, mostly livebearers.


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## chris oe

Why are you feeding antibacterial food? Is there currently an illness in the tank? How long have you been feeding the antibacterial food? What brand tropical? I'd consider treating for parasites if I were you, assuming the tropical is quality and less than a year old, but I would also think about stopping the antibacterial.


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## danilykins

Im feeding them the anti biotic meds because some of them were having some long stringy poo, but I am still feeding them the normal food too...Im feeding them regularly Tetra Algae veggie crisps and for treats (about 2xs a week) seaweed Salad. ITs green marine algae made by sally's. Its dried sheets of algae. 

I was looking at them today, and I only saw one or two with the crooked spine. Im thinking it might just be a birth defect??


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## chris oe

long stringy poo is a sign of intestinal parasites - the antibiotic is unlikely to do much good. More than likely the intestinal parasites are the cause of your bent spines as well. I'd quit on the antibiotic and start up some antiparasitic.


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## danilykins

Sorry, I meant to say its Anti-Parasitic Medicated fish food for internal parasites by jungle...


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## majerah1

Ok see i didnt know the fry have parasites.All my bent babies were from genetics.I guess its different between guppies and bettas.Never had a parasite issue in my fry tanks.


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## danilykins

^ yeah not sure if its parasites... Im thinking genetics since its only a few


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## chris oe

What happened to me is, I had a strain of reticulated pattern guppies with a golden base body color that I was breeding to the albino variation of the strain, and I kept getting these bent bodies. I assumed because I was inbreeding that I was getting some kind of recessive spinal injury thing, so I'd cull the bent ones and keep going. Then I was talking to someone on the guppy list and they said "no, that's not genes, that's parasites". I thought I might as well give it a try, so I did a broad spectrum antiparasitic and never had another bent baby, even though I continued to inbreed the same albino reticulated strain. So I know it is possible for parasites to cause the bent bodies. Whether or not they're causing your bent bodies is unknown. You could also think about the excess selenium from the article. And yes, fry can be born already infected with parasites from their mother.


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