# Peacock gudgeon breeding?



## chenowethpm

*Peacock gudgeon breeding journal.*

I've had a single peacock gudgeon in a planted 10 gallon for a few months. The tank is heavy with RCS and everything is wonderful. I love watching this tank. A few weeks ago I was at my lfs and I saw that they had gotten some more in. I hadn't done very much research in sexing or breeding of these fish so I was unsure of the sex of the one I had. I knew that the difference between the two sexes is mainly fin size, slight body shape difference and a black edge on the fins. The one in my 10 has black edges on its fins s o I got one from the lfs that had no black edges on its fins hoping that it would be the opposite sex from mine. Anyways, after a short 2 week quarantine, I added this new one to the 10 yesterday along with a couple of 1/2 inch pvc pipes cause I read they like those. Long story short, tonight I look and they are both in one of those pipes doing what I assume is gettin busy. We will see. Just thought it was cool that they got together so fast. Will keep updated.


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## big b

ooh that must look nice,a peacock gudgeon in a planted 10 gallon.


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## chenowethpm

It does look nice, now it's 2 peacock gudgeons and a lot of red cherry shrimp. They're still in there this morning. Maybe I'll see eggs later.


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## majerah1

Congrats! I have empire gudgeons. Beautiful fish!


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## coralbandit

Wishing you success and hoping to see some pics if it works out!
Breeding is the "cherry on top" of an already fun hobby!


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## chenowethpm

I don't know if there's eggs. I won't be to upset if there's not, but I'm getting ready to hatch some bbs and setting up a 5g bare bottom with a sponge from there existing tank just in case. My wife is about to kill me though.


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## coralbandit

Something NEVER listed in fishkeeping tools I find unreplaceable is a flashlight!
Feed them and look in where they are with FL.!


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## chenowethpm

Checked with flashlight, no eggs. But now they are in the other pipe. I guess they're trying to figure out which one they like the best.


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## April R

chenowethpm said:


> I don't know if there's eggs. I won't be to upset if there's not, but I'm getting ready to hatch some bbs and setting up a 5g bare bottom with a sponge from there existing tank just in case. My wife is about to kill me though.


Spouses be trippin, lol. My husband tried to put his foot down when I got my first tank in January but 7 tanks later I think he gave up *r2


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## majerah1

I just get a sigh or a " Another tank? What's going in this one?" nowadays. Hubbs knows it is an outlet for me and I am so very thankful he is a great and understanding man.


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## Kehy

My SO just smiles and goes back to me cleaning the tanks. I think he deals with it because I let him geek out with card games.


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## big b

i can relate to yall stories but with my parents instead of a spouse.


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## chenowethpm

Came home today and looked at my tanks, noticed one peacock gudgeon in the tube with EGGS! I think it's pretty cool. I believe I will try to raise these if I can get them to hatch and all is well and whatnot. I have to say I'm pretty stoked about it!


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## chenowethpm

Well, I went to move the pipe with the eggs in it to a 5g with a sponge filter from the parents tank and what did I find? One of the parents having a high protein feast on its own eggs. Live and learn right! If I want to raise some peacock gudgeon fry I'll have to move the eggs as soon as I see them. I'm assuming this is normal behavior? I reed that they will do that. Maybe it's cause it's their first time, but I'll be ready next time.


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## chenowethpm

Well, yesterday was kind of exciting. I saw the pair in their pipe again this time she laid tons of eggs. I watched him kick her out of the pipe and guard the eggs fanning them with his fins.



Taking no chances this time I setup a small 3gallon hatching tank with a sponge filter, heater and a clump of Java moss. Water, moss, and filter taken from the parents tank. I placed one side of the pipe with eggs against the sponge filter hoping to keep water flowing through the pipe. Fingers crossed I'll have fry in a couple days.


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## chenowethpm

Update:
No hatching yet but it looks like some may hatch soon. If I look closely for long enough I see some wiggling inside some eggs.


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## majerah1

Awww, congrats! I hope they give you tons of little ones


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## chenowethpm

Thanks y'all, I'm definitely excited. I don't want to get my hopes up though. From what I've read peacock Gudgeon are fairly easy fry to take care of. Any advice on when and how much water I should change in the hatching tank?


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## majerah1

I would do maybe 15% at first, but make sure the water added back is dripped slowly. This allows there very little change in the chemestry.


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## chenowethpm

Well, tonight I look into their pipe and I see tons of little tiny sets of eyes. They're all wriggling about still inside the clearish sacs. It seems it won't be long now. Anyone got a quick way to get some Infusoria for feeding them until they are big enough to accept newly hatched bbs. I'm going to start hatching some bbs as soon as I see them not in the sacs anymore. I'm pretty much just beside myself, just knowing that I've done something right.

It's super hard to get a pic so here's the best I could do with a flashlight illuminating through the pipe. There's way more than can be made out in the pic.


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## majerah1

Hard to say a fast way, perhaps add some moss. I have some vinegar eels if you are interested? Can send a small starter for shipping cost.


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## chenowethpm

Update:
So, after watching the eggs for a few days and removing some ones starting to get fungus on them the little wigglers started to come out. There's a bunch of what I call wigglers,and a few almost free swimmming. I suspect they'll be free swimming tomorrow. I got a hatchery set up and should have bbs tonight or in the morn. Let's hope I can raise a few. I've already removed about a dozen that died, probably from the fungus.


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## treliantf

This is the difference: marine fishes can never be hatched and raised so easily. I remembered my early freshawter days, I (and my lovely daughter)ended up to take the fries to LFS to free them!!!


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## Kehy

Thought about using thread algae to raise the fry? Auban has had some fantastic results with it.


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## chenowethpm

majerah1 said:


> Hard to say a fast way, perhaps add some moss. I have some vinegar eels if you are interested? Can send a small starter for shipping cost.


About those vinegar eels. Let's make this happen!


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## majerah1

PM Me your address and send shipping monies and Ill get them out!


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## coralbandit

Any updates?They can stay "wigglers" 2-3 days sometimes before taking "cloud" formation(free swimming).


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## chenowethpm

coralbandit said:


> Any updates?They can stay "wigglers" 2-3 days sometimes before taking "cloud" formation(free swimming).


Most of the time they were just laying on the bottom, but now there are a few free swimmers. They are so tiny. I keep thinking the ones on the bottom are dead but when I put the siphon on the bottom to clean they move out of the way. Been hatching bbs every night to try and feed the free swimmers. Also been trying a little Hakari first bites mixed with tank water. These are all I have on hand. Got a vinegar eel culture on the way, trying to be better prepared for next time. I can't count all these little guys but there's at least 10 or 12 that survived. Lost a few to the fungus on the eggs before I removed it. I'm learning. Its a delight.


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## chenowethpm

All free swimmers tonight. Except for two dead on bottom of tank. Removed the two and added some bbs to the tank. The little fry were darting around like crazy. Unreal how tiny they are. Looks to be about 10 or a little more. Hard to count cause they don't stay together and are practically clear. So hard to take a pic. Cleaned bottom of tank after 15 minutes of eating time and did daily water change. Started another batch of bbs eggs. Best pic I could get with my phone.


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## chenowethpm

Update: I fed some more baby brine shrimp last night. They're definitely eating because I can see the orange in their bellies. It's quite amazing to see all these tiny little fish. Everything seems to be going well. I counted 13 but it's so hard to tell how many there actually is.


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## chenowethpm

Guess this is my peacock gudgeon breeding journal. Everyone seems good. I keep feeding bbs and they keep eating and filling their tiny belly's. It's pretty cool to watch them. Here's s quick video. The parents are in their pipe again. I don't know if they're gettin ready to spawn again but if they do I don't have any more room to put them.


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## chenowethpm

Can't post the video, it's in my gallery. I'll try to embed it.


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## majerah1

Did the vinegar eels make it ok?


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## chenowethpm

majerah1 said:


> Did the vinegar eels make it ok?


Yeah, I forgot to message you. They made it fine. Thanks again. I feel a little more prepared for the next spawn.


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## coralbandit

chenowethpm said:


> Guess this is my peacock gudgeon breeding journal. It's pretty cool to watch them. The parents are in their pipe again. I don't know if they're gettin ready to spawn again but if they do I don't have any more room to put them.


I think I have seen this show before?*pc
*r2
Not sure if you need good luck ,but definatley enjoy!


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## chenowethpm

coralbandit said:


> I think I have seen this show before?*pc
> *r2
> Not sure if you need good luck ,but definatley enjoy!


Thanks, I will enjoy it, if my wife doesn't kill me. I've now taken over most of the closet in our bedroom with fry tank and bbs hatchery. I keep thinking,how can I add more space for another tank to grow fry out in.


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## chenowethpm

What have I gotten myself into? Here's a pic of the parents as of 5 minutes ago.


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## coralbandit

^nice!!!!!^
Maybe we can trade fry when weather gets better!


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## garstrom

Very cool, thanks for sharing. This has been more fun to follow than the Kardasions*r2

What is the purpose of the vinegar eels, I am not familiar with them.

Have fun and Thanks again


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## majerah1

Vinegar eels are a great small live food for the fry once they can eat. Its just a little something other than the goodies living in/ on the plants. 

Congrats on more eggs! I believe once they start, most fish wont stop


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## chenowethpm

coralbandit said:


> ^nice!!!!!^
> Maybe we can trade fry when weather gets better!


Sounds awesome! I would love to have GBR again. And apistos!


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## chenowethpm

I guess I'm going to have to setup something else's to raise more fry. I Have a 20 long out on the shed that has never been used. I may get it out and divide it in half for grow out and hatching. I have to admit in having a lot of fun with these guys. My lfs said they'd give me credit if I bring them some peacock gudgeons. They sell them for 12 bucks each.


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## chenowethpm

These tiny guys are getting bigger. Still less than 1/4 inch long, but when I put the newly hatched bbs in there, they get some big orange bellies. Here's a pic from tonight. Maybe the best pic I've gotten of them tonight.


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## chenowethpm

Fry are getting fatter and starting to resemble fish. I m still observing the new spawn in the parent tank. Today the male is still in the pipe taking care of the eggs. He's a good daddy. They seem to be maturing faster than the last time when I removed him. Also no fungus and a lot more viable eggs. I think I will have to pull them tomorrow. I gotta work and I don't know where I'm going to put them yet but I'm afraid to let them hatch in the parent tank. I don't know what would happen if I put the eggs in with the other fry. My plan was to divide a 20 long and put the fry on one side and the eggs on the other. I'm just worried they're going to hatch tomorrow. Hope I can get something set up before they do.


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## chenowethpm

Well, after putting the pipe with the male in a breeder net in the main tank so they wouldn't hatch and get eaten my the female or a shrimp I finally got another tank set up for the fry. I put the fry I already had in a 3g into a 10g and moved the breeder net with the pipe into there. The male didn't want to come out but I got him back in the main tank. The eggs are starting to hatch and it looks like about 50 of them this time. No fungus or anything. Wondering if I can just let them go in the main tank or should I keep them in the breeder net till they're free swimming and then let them out. Would the fry I already have mess with them? Getting ready to harvest some vinager eels for the newly hatched fry.


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## chenowethpm

Well, I had to remove the fry from the breeder net because they were getting trapped in between the frame and the net. Bad design. Anyways, they are all free swimming now and getting along great with the older fry. They're not that much smaller. I can't count em all but it seems like 30 or 40 made it. They're eating vinegar eels and bbs. Anyone have any good experience with tank dividers? The only one I ever tried sucked.


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## chenowethpm

Everyone's eating and competing well for food. They go crazy when I put the vinegar eels and newly hatched bbs in the tank. Doing daily feelings and water hanged and bbs hatchig has become such a routine that I don't even think about it anymore. Would it be real bad if I missed a day of water changing? I was sick yesterday with a stomach virus but still managed to change that water. I've got a system where I take out the water and then drip new water in while I go to sleep. A few times I've woken up mid sleep thinking, oh no the tank is going to overflow. But I never add too much water for that to happen, just a scary thought.


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## Kehy

Sounds like you're having great success! I love seeing people breed fish for the hobby so they don't need to take any from the wild. These guys are gorgeous, I wish I had room for them...


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## chenowethpm

It's more fun than I knew it would be. The little guys are too cute with their bellies full. My only problem is that I usually have to wait till everyone's in bed at my house before I can tend to them so I'm always up late. Half the time I'm just sitting in front of the tank watching them eat though.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l0VumQZm3Hc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## chenowethpm

Well, it's been almost another week and these little guys are still doing well. The first batch is growing fast and I can see all of their little tiny fins developing. The second batch is still smaller but they're growing fast too. Daily water changes and bbs hatching/feeding are so routine now I can do all of it in half an hour. The parents are not in there pipe but the female is starting to get her yellow bulge in her belly again. I'm almost scared to change their water because it might trigger another spawn. Built a stand to put the 10g fry tank on. The stand has another shelf so I can set up another 5g tank for more fry growing room. My wife hasn't yelled at me for taking up part of our closet with the fry tank yet.


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## chenowethpm

Update: first two batches are still growing and living together peacefully. I haven't had any deaths in a while. Still doing daily water changes and feeding live bbs. There's at least 50 of them but it's impossible to get a good count. Looks like I might have to setup something else because the parents have gone into their pipe again tonight. If it plays out like it has been there should be eggs tomorrow. I'm going to try to train the fry in already raising prepared foods instead of live. Any suggestions? I might move the the fry to an established 20 gallon to give them more room. It has one convict in it that I rescued and am finding a new home for.


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## chenowethpm

Well, the male is still in the pipe today caring for a new batch of eggs. Looks like I'm going to have to set up another 5.5g to put them in. I just don't have anymore cycled sponge filters to put in there. Maybe with the daily water changes and small bioload it won't matter.


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## chenowethpm

Got them moved. The male left the pipe as soon as I picked it up. He was not happy with me. He flared up as big as he could and got near his lady. They're both just flaring their fins at each other. The eggs I just put in the new 5g are about to hatch. They already have the eyes and tails showing. Probably wigglers tomorrow. Vinegar eels ready to harvest. I don't know how much longer the parents will keep up this spawning behavior, but it's really cool and feels good to know undoing something right. My only concern about this new batch is the sponge filter wasn't cycled. Will it be good with daily 50% water changes?


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## chenowethpm

Quick update on these guys. The first two batches in the 10g are getting big. They're actually recognizable as fish with all their fins and are starting to turn yellowish color. The third batch in the five have gone from eating vinegar eels to bbs already. It's probably the biggest spawn yet. And I've only lost/culled 4 of them for various reasons. I probably have a total of 70 or so fry between the two tanks. I might move the fry in the 10g to a 20g to grow them out the rest of the way.

Here's a pic of the 10g with the first two


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## chenowethpm

It's been a few days and a few water changes. Just a quick update on these guys progress. They're all still growing fast and eating like crazy. Still on the live baby brine shrimp everyday, I got the first batch to eat a little crushed flake food so I'm going to try to start training them to that, but I'm still going to feed the bbs because the second batch is still real tiny. The parents are starting the ritual again, if they are doing like before I'll probably have another spawn within the next week. Here's a couple pics of the first two batches in the 10 and the third batch in the 5.5


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## coralbandit

How cool!
Nice picture.
You can see an eyespot(coloring) near the tail to help protect them from predators!


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## chenowethpm

coralbandit said:


> How cool!
> Nice picture.
> You can see an eyespot(coloring) near the tail to help protect them from predators!


Thanks man, they're pretty fun to watch. I can hardly wait for them to grow and get their adult coloration. Gettin ready to move the two batches in the 10 to a 20 so they'll have more room to grow.


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## chenowethpm

Been a while so I thought I would update.
The little guys are growing slowly. But they look great. The first two batches in the 10g are voracious eaters and never leave food uneaten. They are doing wonderfully. Going to be moving to a 20g soon. I'm having some troubles with the batch I the 5.5g. Been losing a couple every few days. Can't figure out why. Parameters are always NH4-0, NO2-0, NO3-5-10ppm. Don't know why. Still changing 50% a day on both tanks mostly after feeding to clean up any leftovers. Hopefully they stop dying and I don't lose all of them. Total on both tanks is around 60 little gudgeons. Got them trained on non live foods now so no more daily bbs hatching. The first two batches in the 10g are about an inch long now. Here's a pic of them. 

Here's the grow out setup in my closet, wife's not to fond of it but she bears it.


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## coralbandit

they look great!
Your wife and landlord will hate me!
Move them to as big a tank as possible!
It is as big a difference as feedings in first few weeks!
More room to run,more room to grow.
If you got some to 1 " we could be very close to trading!(sitting on 100+ gbr{1/2 over 8 months!})
Nice work young man! and glad to hear that maintenance is a problem!
Probably means you are doing almost enough!
I don't push everyone!


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## treliantf

NO3-5-10ppm....?

Would you consider setting up a RO dripping system such that you may further reducing nitrate to <5ppm? Fries are sensitive to NO3 but not adults, as I tried very hard to educate folks on the Forum here.


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## chenowethpm

treliantf said:


> NO3-5-10ppm....?
> 
> Would you consider setting up a RO dripping system such that you may further reducing nitrate to <5ppm? Fries are sensitive to NO3 but not adults, as I tried very hard to educate folks on the Forum here.


You know it may very well be below 5ppm as anything below 10 is hard for me to tell the difference in my nitrate test kit. The tank has moss and frogbit floating to help reduce nitrates. My reading was also the day after I skipped a water change cause I went to a wedding. I've missed about three water changes total on these tanks. 50% daily is my normal routine.


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## chenowethpm

Been a while, after a few months break my pair is at it again. Spawning every two weeks. They ate the first spawn cause I didn't remove the eggs in time, but I got this batch out into the hatching tank. Here we go again!

Here's a pic of how I keep the eggs from getting fungus. Place the pipe with eggs on the outflow of a sponge filter and the bubbles travel through moving water constantly but gently.


Here's a pic of the original spawns, they're really looking like p. Gudgeons now.


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