# Filter under-performing



## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey guys, as you know I have an eheim 2211 on my 20g tank. The water has never been crystal clear since putting this filter on and so I'm thinking it's not performing as it should/could. My 55g is over filtered by a marine land c360 and the water is always spectacularly clear. So what's the deal with my eheim? I thought these things were supposed to be phenomenal filters and what I'm seeing it terrible performance. Upon shining a flashlight at the intake, the particles in the water are being drawn in gently and not at a rate fast enough to clear the column. So far I am very disappointed with my first eheim filter. Any suggestions? I don't want to have to clean this thing every few week and if that's what's necessary, I'm chucking the eheim.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

What media are you running in the canister?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

The stuff that came with it. Ceramic rings covers with a single round layer of coarse foam, followed by the little bio-media balls they send with it, single layer round coarse foam, cover plate. I'm pretty sure I'm scrapping it for the fluval 106 rated for 25g at 145 gph turnover. I may check the filter floss before making that decision first to see if that helps. This thing intake issue with is that my 360 runs for so long without losing flow, and everyone raves about how good the eheims are, but that's not been my experience so far. Servicing the canister every couple weeks is not what I should have to do.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

That sucks man. Er it doesn't suck and that's the problem. You're the first person I've heard that has a problem with one of the eheim classic series canisters. I have a 2213 on my 29 and my water stays crystal clear. It's set up the same as yours, media wise at least. It's also super quiet. I just hooked a surface skimmer to the intake of mine and the flow wasn't affected at all. I don't have any experience with the fluval canisters but I have a 305 waiting for my next tank build.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Before getting rid of it, keep in mind I am in favor of fluval filters, why the water is dirty. What is your water change schedule on that tank. What percent? Plants or no plants? Gravel or sand? Do you vacuum it? Things of this nature.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I hooked a skimmer up to it too and had no further Ill effects, but I can just see that it's not doing it's job as a filter. The entire water column is full of small particles so I'm not thrilled. At this point all I can do is replace it and keep it as a backup for emergencies for something. Glad I didn't buy a big one for my 55. I mean yes, everyone says they're great and it's not that I don't believe them, but I'm not seeing it. Probably should've seen this coming. Cories are dirty fish and I'm going to need a more powerful filter.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Oknso as far as not enough filtration for the fish your housing I'll buy that. My questions were based on a similar situation. I built a 20L sump for my 75g cichlid tank and my girlfriend gives me grief about it because that tank is the only one that isn't crystal clear. (I know iI'm not helping by saying the rest of the tanks are run by fluval products...) but my issue is that i am having a hard time keeping the sand clean enough. The fish kick up debris from the sand and it doesn't all make it to the sump. My thought for your tank is that you don't have the right mechanical filtration. Try replacing bio media with sponges which are argueably better bio media anyways.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

I follow you, wingz, but for some reason I still have the thought that my gph just isn't enough. The 2211 is only rated for something like 75gph. That's only turning my tank 3.5 times an hour which might be enough if the suction were higher.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Well 3.5ph turn over is generally enough. I aim closer to 5x + if I can. What about some of the questions I posted earlier. Vacuum, WC, gravel or sand, that sort of stuff.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry bout that. I change 50% every week. I have supernaturals white sand (0.25-0.50 mm). Vacuum as often as I see detritus on the sand. The only drawback to high flow is it could kick up the sand. When I had the HOT magnum 250 on the tank it did just that, but it was 250gph pump. The fluval 106 is 100gph less at 145/hr.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

OK, well how bout positioning of the intake/output. I try to put my canister intakes where I found the most debris kicked up and tried not point the output right at the ground or even where a strong current will go across the substrate.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Spray bar is at the top of the tank, just under the water line. Intake is below the spray bar. Water movement creates a VERY gentle barrel tool effect from left to right. This filter doesn't have enough power to kick up the substrate, even as fine as it is. Lol. Sorry, not laughing at you, but if you saw this thing you would understand. Anyways. The intake is positioned to grab the water as it flows back up the left tank wall, but the suction is the problem. There isn't enough to pull much in at all.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Haha its all good, I understand the frustration. Is there anyway you can get your intake closer to the bottom. I don't think its a auction issue. I would go with more the idea of where the suction is coming from.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

It about 3 inches from the bottom.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ha well I'm out of ideas for now then lol. Aside from different media then I don't know.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah, I've pretty much tried everything aside from that. I feel like if the filter won't perform with the supplied media, then it's not worth using. My 360 works outstanding with the stock media so I guess that's my baseline. Only thing that I would like to see is flow adjustment on the marinelands, and yes my valves are wide open on the eheim. I hear I can add those second hand, but the fluval says you can do it with the stock 106 so...that's my next filter I believe.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ya you can add flow valves. But I like to go with one step above what I thought I needed. However a 206 is too much for a 20g.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

I agree, but the 106 should be just right. It's almost exactly double the flow rate and if I diffuse it with a spray bar it should be perfect


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, filter has been replaced. I called my LFS and found out that they were clearancing the Fluval 105 model and it's was 50% off! So that's what I got. First impression: very quiet. Very high water flow, adjustable if need be. It didn't blow my sand around and it filters twice as much gph than the eheim. Tank is already clearing up. Sad to say, I will probably not use eheim products again. It was worth a shot, but it failed to meet my expectations. Marineland and Fluval have, so far, met them immediately.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

All of my filters are marineland and fluval. Even the pump in my sump is a marineland. But wow what a find on the filter!


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I was thrilled! I was originally looking for the 106, but it doesn't seem to have much difference, mechanically or otherwise, so I'm happy. I did go ahead and just transfer all the bio media from the eheim over. So I have the mechanical sponges from the fluval, the ceramic rings and the bio balls from the eheim, and the bio rings that came with the fluval. Biggest difference is much more sponge to catch large particulates. The eheim appeared to be designed only for bio filtration. That's unacceptable.


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## Avraptorhal (Jan 24, 2013)

Hey, I can understand your frustration. I have one question. Why did you position the intake under the outlet of the filter?

My gut tells me that the two should be on opposite sides of the tank. Just asking.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You said the intake wasn't enough, but you also said you hooked up a skimmer? Sorry, just reading through all of this.

I have the 2211 and have had no problems with mine. The white filter pad has to be replaced based on how much stuff it is intaking. So if it is coming in and pulling a lot of stuff out of your water the more that happens the less effective it becomes. Not much different than most other filters. Eheims don't blow by the filtration much like the one you just got, so when the filter pad reaches its max point if you don't replace it, it will under-perform. Also, if you altered the intake that usually isn't the fault of the filter.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Sorry about the eheim. I've been totally impressed with the 2217 on m55; crystal clear water all the time. The only time I saw a flow reduction was when I put a Fluval Edge pre-filter on the intake stem (a platy had some fry and I thought I'd prevent them being sucked up; a few survivors are hiding in the hornwort). After two days the pre-filter was clogged enough that it impeded the flow of the filter. Once cleaned, it started back up really strong. I too get that tidal effect, and the flow isn't mind-blowing, but the tank is quiet and clean. Best of luck with the new filter. Maybe you could contact Eheim of NA and see if they could replace the motor or exchange the unit.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

The skimmer wasn't the problem, and I know this because even taking it off didn't help. Ben, I think you're right in the sense that the filter pad is the problem...but I think it's the size of it that's really the problem. Such a tiny canister is filled with 95% bio media...so 5% of it is used to collect detritus. That's a terrible idea IMO. Anyways, the fluval is working very well. Lots more foam in it which I like and more bio media. And yeah, when it slows down a bit, I'll clean the foam, but the thing is: it'll be required less often. I was having to clean that little 4in diameter foam every week and when I tried using more foam and less bio, air would get trapped. Bad design if you ask me. Such a pain in the a**. Anyways, to those who like them, great.....for me it's marineland and fluval.

Hal, the reason I have it set up is to catch more stuff. Imagine the output at the top of the tank blowing from left to right. When that current hits the right side of the tank, it takes a dive to the bottom right side, curls down over the substrate sweeping some detritus with it over to the left bottom of the tank. When it hits that wall it curls up towards the top of the tank. So you get this barrel roll effect. Well, with a strong enough intake, it'll suck some of the junk up. Not all, but some. Well, at 145gph turnover eventually all that crud will get sucked up fairly quickly, making vacuuming easier and less frequent.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

It seems to me that you went from a filter with 70 gph flow rate or so to a filter with 145 gph flow rate. So if you would have gone with an eheim that flows as much as the fluval then you wouldn't have had a problem. I would think a comparison could only be made between filters with closer to the same flow rate. The fact that the fluval is turning over more water per hour seems to be the reason your water is clearer. So really any filter that has a higher flow rate than the original you were running would make the water more clear. Just my observations. So it's not a eheim vs fluval issue but a higher vs lower flow rate issue. I'm glad you're satisfied with what you got!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

MriGuy85 said:


> The skimmer wasn't the problem, and I know this because even taking it off didn't help. Ben, I think you're right in the sense that the filter pad is the problem...but I think it's the size of it that's really the problem. Such a tiny canister is filled with 95% bio media...so 5% of it is used to collect detritus. That's a terrible idea IMO. Anyways, the fluval is working very well. Lots more foam in it which I like and more bio media. And yeah, when it slows down a bit, I'll clean the foam, but the thing is: it'll be required less often. I was having to clean that little 4in diameter foam every week and when I tried using more foam and less bio, air would get trapped. Bad design if you ask me. Such a pain in the a**. Anyways, to those who like them, great.....for me it's marineland and fluval.


It is a small filter, that I know. Maybe the flow rate wasn't what you were looking for anyway? I can't say that I agree with you about a poor design. I have yet to see any filter mfg that uses more bio media in their canisters and spends a lot of time designing and making it to the point where when it comes to this type of media, nobody makes it better. Even many Fluval owners would agree. In my personal opinion, flow can be gotten anywhere, even a powerhead, but what makes any filter worth its weight is its bio-capacity. Without that your tank is very fragile, it doesn't matter how well your filter pulls stuff from the water or how much flow there is. It is the unseen stuff that keeps your tank healthy and safe. I realize there is a tradeoff on what you expect a filter to do as far as keeping the tank clean to some extent. So I would agree that Eheim spends a lot of time in this area, but not that it is a bad design.

Good luck with the purchase. Every brand has their issues, some worse than others. I know you say Fluval is your brand...own it for more than two weeks before you make that leap in your head.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

:::sigh::: whatever man. Apparently you didn't read ,thoroughly, to see that the entire point of this post was to pull more particulates out of the water.


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

By particulates, do you mean little things that float by and around just like in nature, or are you referring larger pieces of fish poop etc?

Did you run a prefilter on the intake? Skip the fine floss like pads inside and put a prefilter on the intake - then you can go a looooooong time without having to open the canister. My 100% bioball classic eheim canister with prefilter on the outside I open every couple of years. Its really learning exactly how to manipulate mechanical and biological filtration to suit your needs and the filter you have.

Since you have both, run bioballs in the eheim, and purely mechanical in the fluval, and put prefilters on both. Lots of filtration, lots of water flow, and ease of maintenance. And my personal favorite filter theme... redundancy!


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

No, I don't rely on the filter to get the fish poop. I use an eheim quickvac to grab that stuff up. I have a ton of tiny particles floating around the tank...makes it look slightly cloudy. My 55 is crystal clear. I get the feeling it's micro bubbles which I've heard filter floss will actually take care of, so I'm considering tossing some in the new fluval. There just wasn't enough room in the tiny eheim canister to fit much of anything other than what came with it without removing some of the bio material which I didn't want to do. I watched very closely to make sure it wasn't the output blowing my sand around, and it doesn't appear to be, so I can only assume it's mico bubbles. The output is below the water level so it's not creating any more bubbles than what's already floating around. Tank temp is at 74 so I guess there could be some long term out gassing going on. Still, it seems like filter floss may solve the issue. What do you think, botiadancer?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Ok so I was at my new favorite LFS (Ocean Floor, for those of you in the Phoenix area) and stumbled across some filter floss that I was able to make fit in the new fluval 105. I also happened across a spray bar that wasn't meant for the fluval, but was easily modified to fit. I think that this will help roll the water into the intake and this along with the filter floss is already clearing up the water. Woohoo! 

On an unrelated note, I picked up some new digital heaters that I think are pretty cool. Been using the run of the mill heaters that I would have to adjust and check after an hour to get the right temp. Digital is awesome! Here's a pic of the setup, attached.


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