# SUMP vs HOB vs Canister vs Other Filters



## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

Does anyone have a preference to the kind of filter they use. Other then a "BeaselBob" build w/o any filtration what do people think is best. 

My only experience with a sump would by my moms pond we built her. She has loads of plants, Lillies, cat tails, and one huge plant that slips my mind at the moment that only shows one bloom a year and has a huge seed pod after the pedals drop. We built her a water fall and behind the water fall was a sump for her pond with more plants in to act as a filter. Pumped the water up and let gravity take it down the water fall to the pond. Thats my only experience in sumps.

I have looked them up online and they look expensive but do they work better? Any experiences to share.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Ive had HOB and canisters,and sponge and internals.Honestly,i say it depends on what its going on.I have a 30 gallon,with a HOB,sponge prefilter.I want a canister for it.I have a canister on a 25.and i love it.My water stays perfect.Sponge filters are good for fry tanks.never used a sump,but its supposed to be the best for saltwater tanks.The internal are pretty good,but they take up too much tank space for me.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

why only on salt water and not freshwater? I was thinking a 10g, 4 dividers, getting some large filter pads in the first section...2nd being bio balls, 3rd another set of filters and then 4th i dunno but pumping the water back out. maybe some crushed rock...


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

I run a canister rated for double my capacity on my beaslbob build  the water stays crystal clear

the canister is MUCH more easy to maintain then any HOB I've ever had


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I use an HOB simply because my tank sits on top of a dresser so there's nowhere to hide the canister, and I don't want to have too much hardware hanging around the tank (already have enough with my CO2 system). Also, my AC50 works just fine to suit my needs, and the cost of a canister filter makes me hesitant to make the conversion.

With that being said, I definitely want a canister someday.

Sumps are the best, IMO, but they are designed almost specifically for large-volume tanks, and they are very expensive due to their custom nature (my LFS sells a prefab sump at nearly $200).


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

My guess on a sump is because it is where people are already dumping a lot of money, so a sump tank is not a large increase in expense. There is no reason a sump would not work in a a FW tank. It is sort of what all filters do.. pull the water out of the display tank, put it in a temporary tank, filter, then pump it back in.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

So for a sump...I've found a design for a10g sump on a 55g tank. What the person did was use a 10g aquarium and attach 4 plexi walls to divide it. So my thoughts are spend the 15 on a10g tank from walmart another 10 on supplies then the pumps. 

What do people think about section 1 being cotton, section 2 being bio balls, section 3 being actually filters, section 4 gravel. Pumping into section one from above...going up thru section 2...over and down thru section 3 and back up and it section 4


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sumps or more correctly wet/dry in this case are much better than any other filter type. They break down ammonia over 70% faster, nitrite over 65% faster for a healthier tank. Not to mention the amount of oxygenated water returned to the tank will far exceed any other type of filter (don't quote me on that).

You can design your own pretty cheap. Youtube has numerous ideas. I would only do some type of cotton fiber-type filter where the water enters the filter, bio balls, and then maybe some other type of filter before water passes over to the sump side, like a sponge material. No need to go too crazy with these.


I would look into an overflow box to get the water out of the tank...the most common way for fw tanks. There should be some sort of separation between the sump section and the filtration section. I have a aquapro 125 that I had on my 125g tank but am selling it. It worked incredibly, but my CO2 would gas out completely in less than 18hrs. Obviously you'll need a return pump. I have a couple of those laying around if you're interested.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If you feel the need, you could bump from a 10G to a 20G and have the 4th (biggest) section plants. That would really filter things!

They also make units that fit into the inlet/outlet piping for a sump that you can drop heaters, UV sterilizers, etc. into. You could check into those for some more ideas.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I like canister filters but sumps are great if you have the patience for the DIY go for it! If the tank is in your room then consider noise factor with whatever filter you choose.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah i didnt mean they are just saltwater.But you rarely hear of one on a freshwater setup.(or at least i havent)And the ones where it is on them,its usually the very large tanks.I like canisters best just because i know its a closed system.If the pump goes out it doesnt drain the tank.A sump though,i think if the return pump goes out then you risk a flood.Not sure,as ive never had one.They do seem like they would be quite easy to build if you are handy.Not for me though,lol.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

so sumps add more volume to my main tank...i have a 55g that will be set up...a 20g sump would add probably 10-15 extra gallons after all the media are installed in it. So in theory would that mean i would be able to stock more fish in the tank? Just theory...i dont wanna squeeze anyone out of room in the tank. but i could put my clean up crew in the sump so i wont hafta worry about my fish eating shrimp. 

With an over flow box taking water out of the tank, and as long as the tubing putting water back into the tank has a hole in it above water level wouldnt this stop any syphoning action incase power did go out? Once the over flow sucked down to the point no more water entered it it couldnt syphon anymore into my sump. and incase the return pump went/power outage with the hole above the water line no worries about a reverse syphon since there will be an air pocket...am i correct in this thinking? 

This will give a a chance to have a tank set up w/o all the filters, heaters, etc being seen. Or is something major i am missing.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

A clean up crew would only do so much good in the sump because their job is to clean up left over food and sift through the sand etc.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

How r crabs as clean up crews..my concern is my fish eat the shrimp. And my lfs only has them once in a blue moom...fw crabs tho they always have. I know they try to escape but are they good other then that.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Crabs are the ultimate in garbage disposals, in my opinion. They will eat anything they can get their claws onto, including your fish. Great cleanup crew, horrible tank makes. Make sure if you add them your fish don't have long fins they can grab.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Putting anything in the sump would not be a good idea in my opinion. Your idea is right on the anti-siphon. If you get a return spout made for a wet/dry filter, most have a small pin-hole in them. I would also mount a check valve on top of your pump for more safety.

You're really not losing anything as far as things seen on the tank by doing it this way. Or more correctly, there would be no difference if you went with a canister filter.

Maybe you could get away with an overstck situation, if you get good wet/dry action and water/oxygen exchange. If you did do this it would not help you much for less water changes though.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

THats why i honestly like the canister filters.In case a power outage,there wouldnt be a risk of a siphon situation as a canister is closed.Of course the wet/dry do have the failsafes but its better piece of mind for me.And they have inline heaters and CO2 diffusers as well,and eheim makes a wet dry canister too...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If the sump capacity is going to be 20 gallons, no way you'd ever have any serious concern. Think about where the water level would be in the tank if you pulled out 20 gallons. All sump/wet/dry pieces should be well dry and out of the water by then. Your overflow box and return spout will only be an inch or two in the water.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Wet/Dry's are by far the best method of filtration you can use. Granted these are normally used for the higher volume tanks and can turn over a large amount of water. They also are relatively easy to build.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

If you are going the sump route, unless you design it correclty and test it out you will get a flood.

It is not the same as your outside pond pond where if you have a power outage water just stops flowing. 

that said you can by using home depot type materials build a refugium/sump system for about $50 worth of parts plus the cost of the pump.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Water will not flow with a check valve on top of your pump, as far as siphon of water goes into the sump. If an overflow box is used, the water level of the tank will drop below the overflow box long before the sump overflows. I used to think there was great risk to flood, but I tested my system for every possible situation and never could get it to happen. But, like you say it has to be designed correctly and along with that the fail-safes have to be designed and tested also.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

YouTube - How to - Aquarium overflow / sump / refugium. Some tips

this is what im getting my ideas from as well as a few others... but same basic idea as this guy


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

there was another video i was using but i cant seem to find it right now....that one talked about putting the hole in the return line above water level so that in case of power outage there was no draining of the tank...


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> there was another video i was using but i cant seem to find it right now....that one talked about putting the hole in the return line above water level so that in case of power outage there was no draining of the tank...


Yeppers. One of the design considerations with a sump way way below the tank.

With the pumped return lines in the upper container below the water line, under power out the lines will from a siphon (reverse) through the pump into the sump. Which can cause the sump to flood. 

to prevent that 

1) have the return line above the water leven in the upper container

or

2) drill small holes above the water line in the return lines. 

in either case the idea is to allow air to enter the return line breaking up the reverse siphon.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I've just removed an AquaPro 125 from my tank and getting ready to list all pieces for sale (CPR Aquatics overflow, wet/dry filter, pump, etc..). If you're interested in any of it let me know.


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