# Nitrites and Nitrates high (another thread))



## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

I know this subject has been beat to death, but here's my problem.

I'm working through the cycle stage (about 4 weeks now) and things are going good. 

I have a 36 gal tank with a Marineland Biowheel 200 filter, a sponge filter, lots of live plants, 4 platties (and some babies), 8 neons, 4 zebras, all introduced slowly over time. All fish seem happy and healthy.

The PH is around 7.6, temp around 80. The ammonia has dropped to 0, but the nitrites have spiked and so have the nitrates (just as I would expect). However in spite of my frequent water changes up to 40%, I cannot lower the values.

When I test for Nitrites I get a color (API) that isn't even on the chart. It's kind of dark purple/red. My Nitrates are around 40ppm. So I decided to do an experiment by using 2.5ml of tank water and 2.5ml of tap water. The Nitrite test turned up the same odd color. So I tried 1ml of tank water and 4ml of tap water, and I got 0.25ppm. Based on this is it safe to assume that my Nitrite level is around 1.25? Is my test kit bad? I can't find an expiration date on my test kit.

Anyway I will continue with the water changes and I'm hardly feeding them at all. Just a few flakes every other day. Also I use very little chemicals. Only a small amount of Prime added to the new water.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

I just bought a API MASTER kit and the testing fluids all expire between 3-5 years from now. all the bottles have expire dates. If your kit is over 5 years I would say its time for a new one.
I'm no expert on cycling but sounds like things are going like they should, now you need the bios to change nitrites to nitrates


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

stop adding food until nitrItes drop down.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

love2fishfork said:


> I know this subject has been beat to death, but here's my problem.
> 
> I'm working through the cycle stage (about 4 weeks now) and things are going good.
> 
> ...


Hello love...

It's been years since I cycled a tank. Do we no longer test the water every day and do the 25 to 30 percent water changes? Thought we used to put a few hardy fish into the tank and tested for ammonia and nitrites every day and if we noticed a trace of these two pollutants, we removed and replaced a quarter of the tank volume to get the water back into the "safe zone". When several tests read 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, we added a few more fish and resumed testing and the water changes until the tank was stocked. The process took about 6 weeks and we were done.

Is there a newer and better process? Just curious.

B


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

BBradbury said:


> ...
> 
> Is there a newer and better process? Just curious.
> 
> B


Naaaa

but there is IMHO an older and better process. 

Just start the tank heavily planted and let the plants take care of things. *old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It sounds like you stocked too quickly without letting the tank fully go through the cycle. I'm still not getting what your nitrites are reading? If it is an odd color, what color corresponds the closest? If they are below 1ppm, leave it. If they get above 1ppm, then do a water change. Stop feeding.


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> I'm still not getting what your nitrites are reading? If it is an odd color, what color corresponds the closest?


That's my problem. The color doesn't match anything on the chart. So either I'm off the chart, or my test kit is bad. I'll try to post a picture of the test results, but I'll probably wait until tomorrow in the daylight to get a better picture.


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

You can't use tap water to dilute tank water and expect to get an accurate high resolution test. The idea is right though. It's just that you don't know what is in your tap water. There could be either nitrites or nitrates or both in there. If you want to do this test that way, use distilled water. While you are at it, you can test your tap water to see if it does have these nutrients in it.

Ammonia and nitrites shouldn't be a problem after a while. Nitrates can be a real bear though. Plants help with that though. There are also chemical filter media you can buy and reuse that help with nitrates. This same media will remove ammonia. Fortunately nitrates aren't toxic to most fresh water critters. You may want to avoid snails though. 

It's possible your test is off. Have your LFS test your water. Those color change tests are hard to read. Like you said, they make a color that isn't even on the chart.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

It sounds like things are going normally. The basic idea of a cycle is that there is an ammonia spike, as that falls you start getting a nitrite spike, when you see nitrates you are getting near the end of the cycle but the time each stage takes varies from case to case. 



BBradbury said:


> Hello love...
> 
> It's been years since I cycled a tank. Do we no longer test the water every day and do the 25 to 30 percent water changes? Thought we used to put a few hardy fish into the tank and tested for ammonia and nitrites every day and if we noticed a trace of these two pollutants, we removed and replaced a quarter of the tank volume to get the water back into the "safe zone". When several tests read 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, we added a few more fish and resumed testing and the water changes until the tank was stocked. The process took about 6 weeks and we were done.
> 
> ...


That method is still used but many people prefer the 'fishless' cycle. The cycle is completed before fish go into the tank so it's much easier on the fish.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

Here is the Nitrite test after a 40% water change. Sorry not the greatest photo.

FWIW I did the dilution test using filtered tap water that contained 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates.








[/IMG]


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

Do large water changes and retest afterwards. Keep doing the water changes until your readings are withing the chart.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't know what a dilution test is. The sample taken from your tank should not be mixed with any other water. After a water change wait at least 30 min before taking another test to allow the water to circulate. Aside from that, looks like you have a high level. Do 50% every day until the levels come down.


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> I don't know what a dilution test is. The sample taken from your tank should not be mixed with any other water.


I understand this, the dilution test was discussed in post 1, and 8, and was an attempt to get a higher resolution reading and determine if my test kit was bad.


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

My advice about what to do stands. Consider a nitrate removing media, consider getting your water tested by your store, consider waiting for nitrite to come down on its own. Bacteria are very fast at multiplying, this shouldn't take long if your nitrites are truly high. Think about this, how long did it take for the bacteria to eat the oil in the golf of mexico?


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

Maybe consider a bacteria additive


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

love2fishfork said:


> I understand this, the dilution test was discussed in post 1, and 8, and was an attempt to get a higher resolution reading and determine if my test kit was bad.


I read your explanation, but it makes no sense to perform it. You can't mix things together to determine if you have a bad test kit or not - it would tell you nothing. I can understand testing your tap (with the sample being 100% from your tap), but anything other than that is just a waste of time.

Is the test posted a mixed test, or a 100% sample from your tank?


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

make sure you perform your tests exactly as directed in instructions. First time I used my API , I used the nitrite instructions to test for nitrates when I retested after my duh moment I got a totally different reading.

I'm still having issues getting my nitrates down, 
my ammonia is between 0 and .25
nitrites are 0
nitrates are 120 or so
did a 40% WC today and still got same readings for nitrates
any suggestions?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

hanky said:


> make sure you perform your tests exactly as directed in instructions. First time I used my API , I used the nitrite instructions to test for nitrates when I retested after my duh moment I got a totally different reading.
> 
> I'm still having issues getting my nitrates down,
> my ammonia is between 0 and .25
> ...


Larger more frequent w/c, less feeding, test tap for nitrates.


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

1. I AM performing the test correctly.
2. My tap water does not contain any nitrItes or nitrAtes
3. The nitrIte test using 100% tank water produces a color that does not correspond to anything on the chart.
4. 40% water change has no effect on test color.

ideas?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

love2fishfork said:


> 1. I AM performing the test correctly.
> 2. My tap water does not contain any nitrItes or nitrAtes
> 3. The nitrIte test using 100% tank water produces a color that does not correspond to anything on the chart.
> 4. 40% water change has no effect on test color.
> ...


my guess is that you're pegging the kit at the highest reading.

try 100% dilution of the test sample with distilled water. Fill the tube up 1/2 way with tank water and the rest with distilled water. then test. If you get a reading then the kit was maxed out. whatever the reading it not a relevant but if you did a precise 50/50 mix the tank is actually about double whatever the reading was.

But then again stop adding food until the nitrItes drop down. that doesn't change regardless of what you measure.

Finally I presume you have verified the test with another test like at lfs or whatever.

my .02


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> my guess is that you're pegging the kit at the highest reading.
> 
> try 100% dilution of the test sample with distilled water. Fill the tube up 1/2 way with tank water and the rest with distilled water. then test. If you get a reading then the kit was maxed out. whatever the reading it not a relevant but if you did a precise 50/50 mix the tank is actually about double whatever the reading was.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Last night I did the 100% dilution test and the reading was off the chart. However I just repeated it and got a reading of 2ppm. So hopefully I'm heading in the right direction.

I'll continue doing water changes, and I have already discontinued food.

I haven't had a chance to take a sample to my LFS, but will tomorrow.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

love2fishfork said:


> 1. I AM performing the test correctly.
> 2. My tap water does not contain any nitrItes or nitrAtes
> 3. The nitrIte test using 100% tank water produces a color that does not correspond to anything on the chart.
> 4. 40% water change has no effect on test color.
> ...


Have you tested your tap for ammonia? I just heped someone cycle a tank recently and had extremely high nitrites that wouldn't seem to budge. Turned out the tap had ammonia and since the tank could already handle the ammonia, it would process it and drive the nitrites even higher. Its worth a test. You didn't mention testing the tap for ammonia that I saw.

It is not uncommon for nitrite test to test off the charts and it is not uncommon for 1 or even 2-3 water changes to be completed and nothing change. But, if the water you put in doesn't have ammonia or nitrites you know that the water going in has to be diluting what is left in the tank. For the safety of your fish that is the important thing. I would keep doing the water changes as long as there is no ammonia.

There is no need to try and test to see if you have anything above 5ppm, unless you just need to know and you want to waste a little time or money buying special water. At 5ppm you have already far exceeded what it takes to kill a fish. For me, that is all I need to know and I would do the water changes until it was where the test could get a result it could read.


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Have you tested your tap for ammonia?


This is an interesting point. My water supply has chloramine. I just took a sample from the faucet and tested it. It came up 0ppm Ammonia, then I took a sample of water that I treated with Prime 6 hours ago and tested it. It came up with 0.25ppm. The important point is that it takes time to break down the chloramine. So yes, the water I'm replacing in my water changes is adding some ammonia which in turn is turning into NitrIte!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

love2fishfork said:


> Thanks, Last night I did the 100% dilution test and the reading was off the chart. However I just repeated it and got a reading of 2ppm. So hopefully I'm heading in the right direction.
> 
> I'll continue doing water changes, and I have already discontinued food.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to take a sample to my LFS, but will tomorrow.


If you diluted the diluted sample again the 2ppm would be 8ppm in the original test sample. Which is above the 5ppm of the nitrIte test kit.

Still sound to me like you're pegging the test kit which has happened to my with unplanted tanks. A few days and sometimes a couple of weeks of not food being added and in a day ot two it drops right down to 0.

my .02


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> If you diluted the diluted sample again the 2ppm would be 8ppm in the original test sample. Which is above the 5ppm of the nitrIte test kit.


I didn't dilute a diluted sample!!! I took a fresh sample with 2.5ml of tank water and 2.5ml of distilled water. 

Still reading off the chart this morning. Getting ready to do a water change (15 gallons=42%).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about diluting tests, just diluting your tank water with fresh water. You are doing the right thing. Keep going and it will come down. Be sure to take new readings at least 30min after your water change to give time for the water to circulate.


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## love2fishfork (Jan 25, 2012)

A miracle occured!

After days and days (and days) of water changes, with no real change in NitrItes, or NitrAtes, I got up this morning and tested. The levels while not perfect were much improved.

Ammonia = 0
NitrItes = 0.25ppm
NitrAtes = 5

Looks like I'm almost there!

Fish seem happy - now if I could just find some birth control for my prolific platies!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glad to hear. No telling how long it would have lasted without water changes. The important part is the fish made it through it. Once you are completed, I would wait another week from that point before adding anymore fish. This will give the tank time to continue to stabalize and grow more beneficial bacteria.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

love2fishfork said:


> A miracle occured!
> 
> After days and days (and days) of water changes, with no real change in NitrItes, or NitrAtes, I got up this morning and tested. The levels while not perfect were much improved.
> 
> ...


Isn't that amazing when they finally drop down. then the next day they are 0.


Congrates.*old dude

my .02


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## PixiesDad (Feb 27, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Isn't that amazing when they finally drop down. then the next day they are 0.
> 
> 
> Congrates.*old dude
> ...



I'm glad others feel that same sense of relief when it FINALLY drops down. God bless all them little bacteria working their little butts off! :fish-in-a-bag:


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

PixiesDad said:


> I'm glad others feel that same sense of relief when it FINALLY drops down. God bless all them little bacteria working their little butts off! :fish-in-a-bag:


good. 

also FWIW nitrItes drop down realitively early in the cycle.

Just wait until nitrates drop down. *old dude The feels even better. 

Not to mention phosphates which most don't measure.

my .02


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