# Lovely angel fish



## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

I was suggested that I should get an angelfish, so I did my research, and got a beautiful shiny yellowish one. I am attatched! He(she?) is such a personal fish. Just staring at me through the glass excitedly swimming as if she could come right to me, and when I put my new plants in, she joyfully swam around my arm, and takes flakes from my fingertips! Very nice to my other fish! Anyone else have any angelfish stories?

Btw, I originally got two, but took one back, because they didn't really care about eachother. If you have any concerns, tell me.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

if you'd gotten a male and female, they would have gotten along, but the same sex either way just doesn't work. And if you get 3, the pair kills the extra...
Good decision all around, I expect. They are really nice fish.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I have 7 koi angels. such fun fish. All of mine will come right to the glass to look at me (or beg for food haha) and are a lot of fun to watch grow. Love to see pics of yours!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glad to hear you took one back. An Angel doesn't really belong in a 20g tank, even worse with two. Plant the tank and it gets worse. Plants are good and it is best for Angels, but in your case the more vertical space a plant takes up, the less space for the Angel to live. Keep closing it in and it will die from eventual stress.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I disagree completely with jrman - 20 gallons is plenty for an angel. it's a slow moving fish that needs about that depth. Keep it clean and it'll do fine. If your goal is breeding, a 20's way to small, but for keeping, it's reasonable.
Just stay the course and don't add, as an angel likes its calm.
I guess if you put 300 plants as jrman probably would, his 'closing it in' scenario will happen. These skilled plant guys have a different perspective when they see a tank. With reasonable planting, the two foot base is room to move, and the height of a standard 20 is twice the height of the average domestic form angel. Prioritize the fish and not the plants, and you and your angel'll both be fine.

Wild angels have vertical stripes, and come from areas with grassy plants and plant roots coming down into the water. They look their best if you take that into consideration. The stripes have been bred out by fancy form breeders, but the behavior hasn't.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ultimately it is the Angel that will decide if the tank is the right size. Any tall plant, even 5-6 evenly spaced ones will give the Angel some discomfort in that small of a tank. 20g may be the recommended minimum size for ONE Angel, it changes with every plant added. Get something like an Amazon Sword and you've just made it worse. Better yet, if you look at the way Wisteria grows, one already added, it will flare and spread like crazy. The more plants that go in that tank, the worse the fish would be. Make it a 29g and you have more wiggle room. A 20g has none.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

So stick with Vallisneria or sagittaria (aquatic grass type plants), which the fish will glide through. Add a few branches down from the surface, which it will move around. Or avoid plants altogether and go for wood, java moss and such.
I used to breed angels and two pairs will take up residence at opposite ends of a three foot tank, and claim an area about half the tank. They aren't dempsies with a nine foot breeding territory - 12-18 inches is about what they defend in aquaria. They don't swim fast anough to defend more. I've raised beautiful angels that have lived long lives in 20 gallon tanks, and their behavior has been pretty well that of angels in larger tanks, minus the sparring you get in groups. They hover, and dart when something catches their attention. 

It's one thing to 'successfully' keep a fish in too small a tank, and have it linger like a wolf in its cage for a long lifespan. This isn't that. I haven't seen scalare in any degree of distress or discomfort in 20 gallons. They do just fine.

As for planting, dotfrog didn't discuss that, and since the fish comes from a land of roots, and straight thin lily pad stems, ten minutes on the internet digging will show that as he/she sets up.

Let's agree to disagree since I believe you see plants as central, and I don't. We have a different vision of the set-up, which leads to a different opinion. Meanwhile, let's not discourage dotfrog, who has a perfectly workable set-up he/she should feel pretty good about. We're raining on a parade!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

He discussed planting in his other thread and list it in his sig as well. I don't look at plants as central or it is not my main thing, but anyone who believes that the apparent size of a tank doesn't change when you plant it is abolutely wrong, which was my original point after reading the other thread where the OP mentioned plants. Putting a fish in a tank that is the absolute minimum size to begin with and then do something to alter what that space is, is just asking for trouble. 

Anyone saying "I have done it and didn't have issues" doesn't have much relevance, IMO. I know people that have kept goldfish in tiny jars for a year or two until the mouth and tail were touching the glass and didn't change it and as far as I know the fish still lives. Just because you can make something successful, as they have, doesn't mean that it was what I would call...the best chance for the fish. You can't see stress.

I don't believe in pushing the limits on anything or "making" it happen for any fish or any setup. The stock limits for this tank are already being pushed.

As I said before...ultimately it is the Angel that will decide. Not you or I.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

I'd love to see a pic of your angel. I currently have 3 *wild types*. (black vertical strips) 
Lets turn it into an angel pic thread!!! Here are 2 of my 3.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

nice pic wes. 

Here are a few of mine: 


























I have to side with Ben here. 20 gallons isnt much for an angel, while sharing space with other fish, plants, substrate etc. Just because it CAN be done, doesnt mean it SHOULD be done. My opinion.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Well I am not here to post a pic but apparently not many people have seen a full grown thriving angel.

A full grown angel in a tank that is appropriate will have a body mass of 5 inches, not counting the fins. Add the fins, wild type will be 8 to 9 inches from tip of top fin to tip of bottom fin, then add in the tail which can make the angel anywhere fro 7 to 9 inches long. If its a veil angel a thriving full grown veil tail can reach 1 foot in length.

Now I know people who keep their breeders in as little as 10 gal. But that doesn't mean the fish is thriving and there is also other factors added into the mix, like moving the adults into bigger tanks after the eggs are laid.

I am one of those people that believe that an aquarium and fish should be considered at full growth, but you can keep 1 angel in a 20 gal for awhile. But can be moved to a bigger tank when needed. The problem with that is (will you be able to tell when to move) or will it be to late and the fish is stunted. There is also several other factors that need to be considered in this scenario. What other fish are in the tank? How much swimming room is required? Angels may seem like slow moving easy going fish. But remember they are cichlids and require more than what you think. I have seen mine zip across a 5 ft tank just as fast as anyother fast swimming fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I like what you have done with that pic Wes!


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## gar1948 (Jan 25, 2012)

I have kept a pair of angels in a 26gal bowfront for years and they did just fine. Just keep wood and plants to a reasonable amount. They do need space to swim and feed.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I like what you have done with that pic Wes!


Hehe. It certainly looks like something was *done* to that pic. That is the original pic, no modifications. (I am assuming you're implying the pic is photo chopped of some sort, forgive me if I misunderstood)

I love the pic because, to me, its seems to be a photo chopped picture of two images. But it's just a great single shot of a juvy angel several inches in front of an adult angel.


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## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

She (or he, anyone know the differences?) is a plain yellow one. I picked her in a tank of lots of marbled, koi, etc. but she had lots of personality, so I got her!
Btw, my family camera takes photos in a file type that isn't supported. I dont know how to change it. If I can get a picture with another camera (which I did with the hand feeding kuhlies pic) I'll post a picture of her.


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## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

[/url][/IMG]here she is!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Looks like a pearlscale, to young to sex though.


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## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

susankat said:


> Looks like a pearlscale, to young to sex though.


I don't really want to breed them. Also, she claimes pretty much the whole tank, as my other fish are bottom feeders.


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## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

Can anyone tell male or female by the pic?
Or did you say as in to young to tell the gender?


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Very pretty.


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## DotFrog (Dec 27, 2011)

Also, is it a given that she will get so big I'll have to move her out?


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

Too young to tell. Even adults are very hard to sex. Although if susankat says male/female, she'd know. 

I read, the only way to sex angels accurately, is to see which one lays the eggs, and which one fertilizes it. Female laid the egg, male did the fertilizing! 

I call ours a female even though I've no idea.


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## Dave Waits (Oct 12, 2012)

Evidently, I've been out of the Hobby too long. Last time towards the end I was breeding Black Lace Super-Veils. My breeding tanks were 20 longs and I had six I kept in a standard 55 gallon along with a pleco. I had those six in the tank for almost five years. I wear a size eleven glove and their bodies were as big as the palm of my hand. Back then the prevailing theory was as long as you had adequate exchange on the Surface and held a good oxygen level it was good. I was running an Aquaking Sump-type that moved a lot of water and a large air-driven Sponge filter.

Now, I'm setting up another 55, 48 inches long, 21" tall and 13" deep. I am looking for Blacks again. Six to be exact. Not heavily planted, just some phonies I bought to scape it with. Plenty of swimming room.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Dave be careful of fake plants with veils, make sure they have no rough edges to tear the fins.

Some of my angels that I used to keep.
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC05815-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC05815-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC05810-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC05810-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC00552.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC00552.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC00051.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC00051.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This is what I have now
3 pairs actually.
<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC03587.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC03587.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC05343.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC05343.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/?action=view&current=DSC05362.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/susankat55/DSC05362.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## Redbug (Sep 10, 2012)

Just read this thread and got me a little interested in angels. Love Susankats, jrman83 and Black navigators opproach that the fish comes first re size of tank.
Goodluck with them Dotfrog.:animated_fish_swimm:animated_fish_swimm


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## Dave Waits (Oct 12, 2012)

Beautiful fish Susan, thanks for the advice. I had notoriously bad luck with live plants last time. As soon as I figure out how this new computer works I'll load some pics of my tank up in photobucket and post them.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Seen your pics in the other thread, If you try vals and a sword plant the angels would be greatful and they are basically easy to grow. Put some fert tabs near the vals and under the sword every couple of months and they should grow fine for you. Those 2 are the least demanding and plants the angels like.


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## bgabler (Oct 10, 2012)

I currently have 2 juvenile Angels in a 20 gallon tall, they seem to be doing alright.


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