# Uh oh nipping! Here is what is in my 10 gallon



## bobross05 (Feb 10, 2011)

Hello mates,

two weeks ago i got a 10 gallon tank with 10 lbs of gravel, 2 live plants, light and filter, warmer etc. Tank is set to 78 degrees. Here are the current inhabitants:

10 zebra danios (first 5 were used to start the tank for a week or so; all survived)

1 balloon molly

1 red sword

1 angel fish (currently very small)

The easily excitable aquarium man working at the store told me this would be fine for the 10 gallon, including even the angel (I had doubts after reading other fish forums)

Well, i know the size may be an issue, but more annoying is that the danios are nipping the poor angel fish's top fin. I thought they would be fine in a large enough school.

i guess he will just eat them when he gets big enough.

Any ideas? also, any other fish suggestions? I kind of want a small shark and a few shrimp also. i really love the look of the tank so far


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Poor Angel, just hope it's not one of the really small ones they sell in the stores. The only thing you can do is get him out of that tank. Never trust the people in the stores, they're just there to sell you the fish. Better to read up on the species you want on your own. He will eventually die from stress.

What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate right now? Your tank should still be cycling. I would imagine that your ammonia is pretty high putting that many fish in that small of a tank that fast, which by the way you are probably maxed out already or very close. An Angel is also not the kind of fish to cycle a tank with either.


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## ltshears (Feb 9, 2011)

i think you have too many fish in a 10 gallon.. that tank is too small for angelfish and also way too small for any shark.... The lady at the pet store doesn't know what she is talking about.. not only are you overstocked, but your tank also is not cycled..


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Your tank is overcrowded, both by the inch per gallon rule and the number of fish used to start cycling. Also, a school of 10 fish in a 10 gallon is too many. A school of five is much better. Your Angel will evetually be killed by being harassed by you Danios or from Ammonia Poisoning.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

i may be the only person here who will say if you do keep up with very very good maintance your fish might survive. Water changes on a regular(2 day) basis, amazing filtration, and enough decor so fish can have their own territories. 13 fish in 10g is alot tho. I have 8 in my planted tank and its a 10g thats taller then it is wide. i keep 2 angel with tetras and 1 male guppy. You may want to check out craigslist tho for a cheap 20g. Keep up with the maintance, check your stats(ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph) and do what you can to keep them happy and healthy. 

Just curious tho...
was it a big box store where you bought your fish or a local fish store?
What is your filter rated for? 
Did you get a test kit as well?


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## corE3105 (Jan 26, 2011)

did you do ANY research before adding all these fish so quickly? i wouldn't be surprised if all the fish in the tank die...tisk tisk


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## bobross05 (Feb 10, 2011)

Yeah I did some internet research first--don't be a ###. 

I purchased the fish at a local aquarium store, the gentleman helping me was a retired hobbiest, working there for fun and extra income. He seemed very knowledgeable and talked to me for a long time. He said the 10 danios would be about the bio equal to 2 fish and that they wouldn't be aggressive.

Speaking of research, you are the one browsing a fish forum looking for someone to criticize with your superior fish knowledge. I work and guess I don't have time to read as much about fish as you do. I hope it makes you feel important though.

Thanks to others who have responded in a helpful manner without judging me for wanting to enjoy this hobby.

Cheers


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

what's your filter rated for? And is your tank planted? The better you can keep thw water the better for your fish. Keep an eye on your levels n do water changes...


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hello,welcome,and sorry for the troubles.Many experienced hobbyiests may can figure a way for the amount of fish to work in a ten gallon.If heavily planted and heavily filtered,it is possible.But many who are knowledgeable should realize some dont know as much as others.SO a few questions,if you dont mind.

A test kit.Do you have one?If not you should invest in one.The ones with the glass vials and liquids,not the strips.The strips are very inaccurate.

Filter.What type is it?

Plants.What type are they?Are they large or small?

Size of the fish.

I do suggest you either rehome the angel or look into a proper setup for him.Angels need height more than length,and love alot of plants.They feel more secure.The zebras need length more than height,as I am sure you noticed the darting.Sharks are not good for smaller setups at all.I always suggest a ten gallon is best suited for a quarantine and nothing more,though alot of people would disagree.I think a 20 is the smallest anyone should try for a community,because of the water quality.


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## bobross05 (Feb 10, 2011)

Hi,

The filter came in a box with the tank-- how can I tell its rating?

As far as water levels go, I thought once the cloudiness went away, the tank was ready to go. I waited for that to happen after I added the first 5 danios to begin the cycling.

My red sword died this morning. Is this due to poor water quality, or starvation? He wasn't very forceful about fighting the danios for food. I feel badly that he perished.

I have two live plants, but don't remember their names. I got these hoping it would help provide shelter for the angel... His poor top fin is getting smaller yet. Could it be a particular danio causing the strife? Perhaps I will pluck that one out.

Thanks again for any other tips.

Can I add 1-2 koi to a 10 gal? I fancy their appearance.

Thanks mates


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

First of...NO KOI.Koi and goldfish are pond fish.They get very large.The will be longer than a ten gallon,lol.Its recommended that koi have 1000 gallon ponds,so yeah.

The way you can tell the rating on a filter is on the bottom of the filter.Or the lid.Something like Aquatech 10-20.

The initial clouding is always hard to tell,IMHO.It could be from the gravel,or your water,or a bacterial bloom.The only safe way is to get a kit.I think the reason the sword died is the amount of fish is too great for your water to dilute the amonia and the bacteria isnt built up enough to detoxify it.The only way to keep the current fish from following the same suit,is to do massive waterchanges every other day,test every day and upgrade to a larger tank.Also i dont think its just one danio,as they are notorious nippers.


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## corE3105 (Jan 26, 2011)

bobross05 said:


> Yeah I did some internet research first--don't be a dick.
> 
> I purchased the fish at a local aquarium store, the gentleman helping me was a retired hobbiest, working there for fun and extra income. He seemed very knowledgeable and talked to me for a long time. He said the 10 danios would be about the bio equal to 2 fish and that they wouldn't be aggressive.
> 
> ...


someones sensitive! haha...i think its funny how you think i browse this place so i can find someone to criticize...i simply saw your post and noticed that you apparently dont know anything about keeping fish, and the same goes for the old man you talked to...you're way overstocked for a 10 gallon, especially without even cycling the tank first...no one said you have to take a sick day to research fish, but if your job is so demanding, maybe you shouldnt of jumped into a hobby you know nothing about...because if you cant even find time to figure out how to properly setup your aquarium, then how are you going to have the time to maintain it?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It is just a mistake and we all either have or will make them in this hobby. Easier to do when it is something new to you. He came here for help...lets try to get him on the right path....


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with JR here.Lets be civil and try to offer advice and help.Some learn by seeing others by doing.

I forgot to ask.OP,if possible could you get pics of the tank and the damage to the angel?I just thought,it could be finrot considering your bioload,and it would be best to narrow down the issue with pics.


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## bobross05 (Feb 10, 2011)

So an update:

I just did a 50 percent water change to try and calm the situation down.

I checked and my filter is rated for 5-15.

I was just kidding about the koi, though I might like to have a koi pond someday outdoors. Someday...

I admit I made a few mistakes and was too eager. The fish just looked so nice in the store and I was over zealous after the first 5 made it through so splendidly.

Do danios school? The fish man told me they do, but my group of 10 doesn't. 

My plants are both tall-- one is prickly like a rosemary branch. The other has small round leaves. I don't remember their name.

I have written about the fish experience in my blog pipedreamopedia.blogspot.com if you'd like to take a read.

Thanks!


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

hey bobross 

my 2 cents 

i dont think the tank is over stocked but adding 5 danios you should have waited for atleast 4 to 6 weeks before adding any other fish 

a 10 gallon is not suitable for an angel and most say angels can live alone but i think they need to be atleast in a pair 

Danios are the most energetic fish i have ever seen, they pick on anything and everything 
if you have an option to return the fish to the store i would just keep 7 danios and return all the rest and you can slowly add may be 4 to 5 more fish over a period of 2 months 

i dont think your angel if left in this condition wouldnt make it for more than 2 more weeks at max 

and another advice you should never add more than 2 fish (for a 10 gallon) at a time and should wait atleast a week to 10 days before you add anymore 


Good luck


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

In my experience and in a few articles online,danios dont school per se.They are more comfortable in large groups but will never be a nice everyone go the same way school.They are all over the place.

I will check the blog tomorrow,thanks for sharing.

As i was afraid,the filter is not big enough for the load in the least.Is it possible for you to change to different fish or upgrade to a larger tank?Many stores will take the fish back and exchange them for different species.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It's good that you did a good water change. Do you have testing supplies to test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates? You should get a liquid test kit that can test these 3. An API liquid master test set is the most recommended.


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## bobross05 (Feb 10, 2011)

I do not have a testing kit.

My local aquarium store will perform tests. How much does a testing kit typically cost?

I will monitor the fish's behavior closely and change water every few days. I still feel terrible about the sword-- he was being very calm last night and I was afraid he was ill. Oh dear


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Probably about $30 at your local store. They should carry it. If they use liquid test themselves and not strips, then I'd say you'd be okay using them for a while if you needed to. If they strips though, get your own kit. Strips are too unreliable.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

i would think about getting either another filter or a filter rated for a 20-30g tank. you dont want the current to be to strong or else it will suck up your fish. but a good rule i follow is double what ever your tank is in filtration. If you double your 5-15's you have now, should 1 break you will always have a second one to use. 

Dont worry about the Jerk who keeps trying to rip you. Everyone here is is normally helpful. And even if you are extremly busy an aquarium is a hobby that isnt something that steals all of your free time. Once you get into the habit of doing tank maintance you will get it done in no time. 

This is a great place to get more knowledge and find out some tips. Also look into other forums as well. The more advice you get the better. On this forum there may be ideas or likes/dislikes that other forums may see differently.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

side note ive seen else where that its not one inch of fish length but cubic inch per gallon. anyone else hear that?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I dont use the inch per fish rule or the cube factor.I look at the energy and swimming level of the fish.I have three macrostomas and an albi in a 25,and while many would say its still got room,it doesnt,because they are territorial fish,and anything else will bicker.

I secont getting a second filter,but still think you should upgrade to a larger tank for the danios.They get big and swim erratically.A group of ten will be fine in a 20 long and you could add a few other species,if you have enough plants and filtration.

Forgot,most stores will test for free,but make sure they use the liquid like mentioned above.The strips are just a waste of cash.


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

bobross05 said:


> I do not have a testing kit.
> 
> My local aquarium store will perform tests. How much does a testing kit typically cost?


Let me first say everyone makes mistakes, all we can do is try to learn from them. Now my advice:
Even though the pet store will do free test you should get the API test kit, for the beginning you should check you water everyday, especially with the amount of fish you have. 
The old method of how many fish was: 1" of adult size fish per 1 gallon of water. So looking at the Danios, lets say adult size 2" you would need 20gallons of water. Angel fish should be kept at the same rate as fancy goldfish 10 gallons per fish, minimum tank size 20gallon for angels, they can grow to about 8"diam in the right conditions.
Also look at the amount of gravel and decorations you add, the more you add the less water is in the tank. I would try to return the Angel, maybe for another molly or a store credit you can apply to the test kit. 
If you have questiions don't be affraid to ask we were all new to the hobby at one time.

PS:I forgot to mention, I personally would upgrade to a larger filter at least one rated for 20-30gallons pre hour.


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## 3x100cart (Feb 7, 2011)

my 2 cents 
first I dont think your tank is large enough to get any fish to really school 
but my fav school fish are neons they stay mid level dont bother others stay ffairly tight and are really small so more per tank in my experience

I would say your tank is to small and I have found the larger the tank the easier to take care of backwards I know but the tank balances better I have had 3oz(light bulb hallowed) 10 20 45 55 75 and 110gal my 110 is BY FAR THE EASIEST and I dont think I would ever do a 10 gal again 

the best way I found to set up new tank is to find a friend with a good healthy balanced plant tank take some of his water and gravel to add to your own new gravel this helps to skips so time


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

A light bulb? Why a light bulb?


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I really like 10 gallon tanks, if they are very carefully planned. But I think you need to think about your goals. Bigger tanks are easier to keep and you can have more fish. Do you have the space/money for a bigger tank? Do you want to keep the fish you have?

I strongly suggest you return the angel to the store quickly, it's too big for the tank and is unlikely to cope with a cycling tank. I personally would put danios in a bigger tank but it is possible for them to be kept in a 10 and they are at least hardy and more likely to cope with the cycle. A cycle typically takes 4-6 weeks to complete.

Get a test kit when you can which will help you know whats going on with the water, until then I'd keep up 50% daily water changes.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

corE3105 said:


> someones sensitive! haha...i think its funny how you think i browse this place so i can find someone to criticize...i simply saw your post and noticed that you apparently dont know anything about keeping fish, and the same goes for the old man you talked to...you're way overstocked for a 10 gallon, especially without even cycling the tank first...no one said you have to take a sick day to research fish, but if your job is so demanding, maybe you shouldnt of jumped into a hobby you know nothing about...because if you cant even find time to figure out how to properly setup your aquarium, then how are you going to have the time to maintain it?




Keep this civil or I will lock this thread. Watch the words, no name calling or anything else.*flaming is not allowed on this forum.


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## 3x100cart (Feb 7, 2011)

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> A light bulb? Why a light bulb?


I saw a guy with super tiny tank pics claiming the smallest tanks ever some in test tubes but they didnt seem real to me only water and a plant single grass stem so not really a fish tank 

So I tried to make smallest FISH tank I hallowed out a light bulb put in sand leafy plant spud, snail and baby feeder guppy lasted bout 2 months made couple others for friends 

was just kinda cool and fun challenge


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I think you can only go so small and still give proper conditions to a fish, that is why most mini tanks don't include fauna.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

bobross - what is the latest for your tank and fish?


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