# Business



## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

So, I finally have all my aquariums in my future fish room (currently my bedroom).

So far all of my aquaria are empty, though I hope to start cycling one of them today.

Pictures:
(2) 283L (_75G) Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
(1) 184L (_50G) Tall; (1) _75L (_20G) Cube Hex Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
(1) 142L (_40G) Hex Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
(2) 106L (_29G) Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
(1) 510L (135G); (1) _75L (_20G) Long; (1) 170L (_40G) Breeder; (2) _39L (_10G); (2) _21L (__5G) Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

I am seeding a filter on my dad's 100 gallon. I hope to go to my local fish store today to get some supplies and get a few plants for my first aquarium. I do not plan to have gravel in my first aquarium. I will keep the breeding stock in one of my 29 gallon aquariums and the fry from them in one of my 75 gallon aquariums.

I hope to build stands for all of these aquaria when I get enough return.

For now, I am only going to breed Showa Swordtails. I will expand when I feel it is the opportune time. I will keep you all posted on the progress.

PS~ This thread is not to advertise. I am only using this to post progress of my business. An alternate title might be: Breeding Adventures. I hope to help reduce the strain on the wild populations of aquatic organisms that are kept in the aquarium hobby.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

106L (_29G)~001 Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

My Showa Swordtail breeding stock aquarium. It is almost completely set up. I am trying to get the chlorine and other harmful stuff out naturally by aerating the aquarium for 24-48 hours. On Monday I will go to my local fish store, as I will not be able to make it there today. I hope to order the inhabitants by Wednesday of next week, though this will greatly depend on whether anyone on AquaBid has any that they put up for auction. On Monday, I hope to get plants, a water test kit, live food cultures, and some other supplies from my local fish store. I will ask them if they would be willing to buy some Showa Swordtail fry from me. I am hoping for $3-$5 for each fry. I will keep you updated on the progress.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You should find out if your water contains chloramine as it won't dissipate and you will need to use a dechlorinator if it does.


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## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

susankat said:


> You should find out if your water contains chloramine as it won't dissipate and you will need to use a dechlorinator if it does.


agreed..also have you looked into this business of yours..how are you planning on getting a return..are you turning them in for store credit or are you selling them online..if your selling them online you might want to check into it a little futher. alot of varibles there..stock dying in transit, shipping cost, etc..based on my experience its not a profitable business unless you are breeding very rare fish. Im not try to be negitive or talk you out of it, its just ive been there , done that, just giving you a heads up on what is to come.

Rick


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

You'll be lucky to break even buying supplies at a local shop, online is much cheaper. Make sure there's a market for what you are doing, from experience if 3 shops say they will buy them one will when you have them ready to go.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

whitetiger61 said:


> agreed..also have you looked into this business of yours..how are you planning on getting a return..are you turning them in for store credit or are you selling them online..if your selling them online you might want to check into it a little futher. alot of varibles there..stock dying in transit, shipping cost, etc..based on my experience its not a profitable business unless you are breeding very rare fish. Im not try to be negitive or talk you out of it, its just ive been there , done that, just giving you a heads up on what is to come.
> 
> Rick


If my local fish store will buy them from me, I plan to sell them about 50% of the fry and sell the rest online. The reason for this is to make sure I don't supersaturate the market. I still need to compare shipping cost with USPS compared to FedEx and others, but that will only take me maybe a day or two. I appreciate the advice and I know you are not trying to talk me out of it, and even if you were, you'd be too late. I am doing what is right now popular and I hope to expand within a few months to include some rare shrimp species, because it seems those never really die down. I plan to raise and breed every bit of food, every plant, every fish myself so the only cost will be the initial payment to get the cultures started. So, essentially, I hope to create a self-sustaining business that, after the initial cost, never has to buy anything except replacement parts, which aren't too terribly expensive. I may even eventually try to make my own supplies to cut down on the cost of buying replacement equipment, though it won't happen for several years. After a while, I hope to breed some never before bred aquatic organisms such as Ropefish, Roseline Shark, and puffers. I also hope to eventually expand to saltwater organisms and try to help to do my part to help reduce strain on wild populations, and even help build wild populations back up by initiating breeding programs for endangered species. I hope to breed all different types of freshwater and saltwater organisms that are currently in the aquarium hobby all over the world. This would include sharks, rays, seahorses, moray eels, all types of freshwater aquatic organisms, coral, etc. I even hope to eventually breed some real oddballs such as arowanas, elephantnose, knifefish, as well as others. I know this may not sound realistic, but this is my DREAM. I know I can do this. I just have to start small, with the lowly, albeit beautiful, showa swordtail and others. In essence, I hope to help make the aquarium hobby a naturally flourishing, self sustaining hobby while helping conserve and rebuild the natural populations of aquatic organisms all around the world. Oh, and did I mention I WILL do all this WITHOUT the use of hormones? AND, in order to help insure species do their natural parenting ways all throughout the many captive bred generations, I will introduce natural predators in the breeding aquaria of those aquatic organisms that have those oh-so-sought-after parenting roles, such as cichlids that, with each passing captive bred generation, the natural parenting instincts diminish because we breed them in sheltered and artificial conditions.

As you may or may not have noticed, while I DO need money, and I DO need a return to help me gain experience in breeding, my ultimate goal is NOT to make a profit. My ultimate goal is to help the poor, often mistreated, aquatic organisms we keep in aquaria. My goal is to ensure that we, as hobbyists, still have aquatic organisms to keep while also ensuring we don't deplete the wild populations down to NIL. Trust me, if I could stop the trade of ALL aquatic organisms in aquariums, and could convince you to stop keeping them to help insure the wild populations... I WOULD IN A HEARTBEAT! The problem? I can't. Why? This hobby is too darned big for one person to impact it that much. Plus, even if I could make a difference in that way, I know of one person who would not totally stop... ME! I love keeping aquatic organisms. Mainly because I can see them and I do not have the time or money to visit every place that has aquatic organisms. Plus, in aquaria we can surround ourselves with aquatic organisms and, with the correct setup, we can see most of the aquatic organisms in the world in a matter of a few days, rather than spending a lifetime traveling the world and not being able to see the organisms more than once. I also can study the aquatic organisms without having to do so much as travel. If I were to set the aquaria up like the habitats the aquatic organisms come from, I can study their natural habitat from the comfort of my own public aquarium.

Yes, I said my own PUBLIC AQUARIUM. I also hope to own the largest public aquarium there ever will be. I will continuously expand it so no one can top mine. I don't want in the hall of fame, mind you. I want to keep ALL aquatic organisms while breeding and helping maintain, sustain, and, if necessary, build up ALL aquatic organisms' natural habitat. For this to happen, I will have to build the largest public aquarium ever and keep adding on to it.

I'm sorry for going off on a rant. I just want to let you know that I am fully aware of what I want to do, how I am going to get there, and how ridiculous it sounds. I would like all of your support. Call me a madman, but this IS going to be a reality!

~Jacob Green
Future Marine Conservation Biologist
and current madman who is anti-social and probably delusional as well.

Please bear with me. *old dude (me in the future)

PS~I know I seem crazy, but I am completely sane, I know what I am doing and what I hope to do. I also know that my plan sounds absolutely ridiculous and you are probably shaking your head and are thinking I am high or something. I'll tell you, I'M NOT! I have never been so sane in my life. I know this is more of a fantasy right now, but then again, 20 years ago, handheld, touch screen cell phones, tablets, and all the technology we have now was a fantasy made real by someone having an idea and sticking with it even though people called him crazy. I'll tell you, I am the equivalent of that man 20 years ago, except with one main difference: that person 20 years ago had an idea about technology. I have an idea about aquatic organisms.

Thank you for bearing with me and for hearing me out. I can't stop you from thinking I'm mental (I may be mental, but I've never been so sane in my life), but don't try to talk me down, because all negative comments will only fuel this burning desire of mine to make my DREAM a REALITY. Thanks again and have a great day!


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I am pondering if I should try to create a Rube Goldberg Machine that will be on a timer and automatically feed my fish and all. What do you all think? Any ideas on how to design it? I know it's possible, it's just a matter of getting the materials (the cost) and getting my creative juices flowing. Plus, once I create it, will it function? Mythbusters created one on a Holiday Special episode, and it took them about 15 tries for it to work. I want this to work with little maintenance and it must work for at least a week straight. If I could do this it'd be awesome! Also, no fish will be harmed in any way. I will make it totally safe for any fish with fish safe materials and all. I just think it'd make a great way to save time for when I go back to college to help keep my business running. Now, I don't plan to catch the fish and ship them with the machine - there's some things I know are best left to humans....

I plan to feed the fish first, and maybe expand it to maintenance later on, IF the first part (feeding) works properly.

Any ideas on my idea would be greatly appreciated.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

To do something like this you need to plan on a lot of physical maint. yourself and not rely on different machinery to do the work for you. No matter how big you grow your system.

I know people that run fish farms and people that has there own breeding going in very large retrospect. And there is still lots of physical work to do. And they still have to work at a second job as their main income.

I myself breed some high dollar plecos, but I just barely break even. For the simple fact that I have to feed, lots of water changes and such for at least 4 to 5 months before I am able to sell them. Some are even longer than that. When it comes to fry and juvies your feeding 3 to 4 times a day and doing water changes at least every couple of days.


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## z1200 (Jan 26, 2012)

J4C8_GreenGo said:


> I am pondering if I should try to create a Rube Goldberg Machine that will be on a timer and automatically feed my fish and all. What do you all think? Any ideas on how to design it? I know it's possible, it's just a matter of getting the materials (the cost) and getting my creative juices flowing. Plus, once I create it, will it function? Mythbusters created one on a Holiday Special episode, and it took them about 15 tries for it to work. I want this to work with little maintenance and it must work for at least a week straight. If I could do this it'd be awesome! Also, no fish will be harmed in any way. I will make it totally safe for any fish with fish safe materials and all. I just think it'd make a great way to save time for when I go back to college to help keep my business running. Now, I don't plan to catch the fish and ship them with the machine - there's some things I know are best left to humans....
> 
> I plan to feed the fish first, and maybe expand it to maintenance later on, IF the first part (feeding) works properly.
> 
> Any ideas on my idea would be greatly appreciated.


A machine like you explained would require someone to reset and start it everyday you fed the fish. You can buy automatic feeders that go off a certain time of day. You would only have to refill them once and a while. And good luck, -Z


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with Susan, dont take the easy way out. One of the joys of having fish is the interaction. Otherwise it leads to the thinking of them as decor and not living things. Not saying you will just it would be better for you and them to have that.You would be able to watch for signs of stress and disease easier.

Breeding is a lot of work, but if you put your all into it, you can get rewarded with some great fish and some great friends in the hobby.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I completely understand. I just thought I could save a little time while I was at college. I guess I'll have to do it the old fashioned way - not that I mind, mind you. I will have a lot of homework, but I'm smart and could do it quickly enough to still have time to change water and all. Besides, I need support and I agree that not putting my all would be bad. I also agree, now that Bev mentioned it and I think about it, that trying something like I was going to could ultimately lead to me treating them more like decoration and not like actual beings. Thanks for preventing me from making a critical mistake!


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Water changes are the real time killer, there's ways of making them go more quickly, or setting them up so they take care of themselves while you do other maintenance tasks. Hoses & pumps are a big part of this, as well as self siphoning overflows or drilled tanks. 

Most everyone ends up doing & redoing things several times over before they hit on a system that works best for them. You'll be thinking of upgrades or a way to build a better mousetrap for the rest of your life, enjoy!


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Sorry I haven't updated this for awhile. I've been busy. I haven't gotten to go to my local fish store and I've been checking AquaBid.com but there are absolutely no showa swordtails for sale. This is really getting irritating, having an aquarium set up and almost ready, but having nothing in it. I'm now thinking about starting with shrimp and/or aquatic crabs. Any input would be appreciated!


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I finally went to my local fish store yesterday and bought a few supplies.

Pictures:
Panther Crab Aquarium Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

My 75 gallon has two marimo moss balls, one broadleaf amazon sword, and two anubias. I plan to put three panther crabs in this aquarium, one male and two female. There is no substrate except the gravel, but the plants are fine.

Picture:
Broadleaf Amazon Sword Bubbling Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

They are bubbling. I just need to fix the fixture so both lights will shine. Well, I've got to go for now. I'll update soon.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Well, a miracle happened sometime yesterday. I checked the lights yesterday and the light wasn't working because of some wiring and/or rusted parts. I think rusted parts. Anyway, I got so frustrated with the lighting fixture that I was about to give up on the stupid thing and go buy a new one. I am on a really tight budget, so that wouldn't've been good. Well, the miracle is: somehow, by the grace of the Almighty God, both lights were on when I went to bed. I don't know how, the one that has always worked was on for a while, and then sometime later the other one came on. Trust me, it should not be working - but it is! Praise the Lord!


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I'm going to get the panther crabs tomorrow. My local fish store got them in a few days ago, but I had too high of ammonia levels to get them. They are small, about one inch. They are SO cute. I will post pictures of the aquarium and crabs tomorrow when I get them. I can't wait! *w3


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I've finally got the panther crabs. They are beautiful. Going to finish setting up the aquarium and posting pictures in the next few hours hopefully.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Sorry for not updating this. I've been AWOL on this site for awhile. A few things to mention. First, one of my panther crabs escaped. I decided to take part of the cover off as an experiment to see if they could escape. None did, so I took the rest off and what do you know, one climbed out. Haven't found him, but he was the largest of them, so I'm still disappointed and ticked off at myself for being stupid. They weren't very active so I figured they wouldn't escape. Wrong! Anyways, one of the two smaller ones moulted and is okay, and I didn't add any iodine, so I guess I don't need any. I hope to add a few shrimp to the aquarium since it looks kind of empty. If you have any advice on mixing shrimp with the crabs, please tell me. I hope they will continue to moult and grow. I know it'll take a few years, but hopefully soon they will breed. I've never kept crabs before, but this species is supposed to take longer than other species to reach sexual maturity. So, I guess I'm going to have to wait. Well, I'm off. I will continue to be a part of this forum and update this thread. I will try to make time to post pictures this week. A lot has been going on lately. I've totally reorganized my room and all. I'm still praying I'll find that crab that escaped. Well, I'll see you all around.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Quick update:
My other panther crab just moulted. I saw two in one cave, and checked the other cave and the one was still in there, so I looked in the first cave closer and realized it was just a shell! These two are very similar in size, and apparently age.

Now for a question: If there is a large crab in the same aquarium as a small one, and the one is much older than the other, can the one pose a threat? What I'm getting at is: If the big crab was still with me, it would've matured first. Maybe since the other two weren't ready and it wanted to reproduce, would it have killed the other two in it's haste? So, I'm of the belief that everything happens for a reason. We may not know that reason, but there is a hidden, deeper reason behind everything that happens. So, could the Lord have taken away the crab he gave me to help ensure the other two would reproduce? I may be thinking too much into this, but I guess the only way to find out would be to wait and see if the two are male and female. If they are, that could then be the reason. Now please don't post hateful comments on how there isn't a reason for everything, or that the crab escaped because I was stupid and took the cover off. We all have our separate beliefs and I know I was stupid to take the cover off and that is why it escaped. I just believe everything has a deeper meaning, as I stated above. Thanks for taking the time to read this and for the continued support for my business. I hope to get some shrimp or something soon to help get things going since these crabs aren't going to breed for another few years. I'll be sure to post pictures as soon as I can and will keep you all updated!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I too believe everything happens for a reason.But being"thinking" animals we often struggle to understand.I also believe we don't always need/deserve to know the reason,so I with you would just roll with it!
I'll also say from what I've seen in the aquatic kingdom that often size difference is the only visual difference between the sexes(females usaully are bigger in general{but not always}) with many speceis.I wish you luck with your crabs and caution not to add anything of true value as I would GEUSS the crabs would/will eat anything they can catch,unless they are 100% herbavores.
Good luck!


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> I too believe everything happens for a reason.But being"thinking" animals we often struggle to understand.I also believe we don't always need/deserve to know the reason,so I with you would just roll with it!
> I'll also say from what I've seen in the aquatic kingdom that often size difference is the only visual difference between the sexes(females usaully are bigger in general{but not always}) with many speceis.I wish you luck with your crabs and caution not to add anything of true value as I would GEUSS the crabs would/will eat anything they can catch,unless they are 100% herbavores.
> Good luck!


I agree with you on the "thinking" animals part. We do struggle to understand and, yes, we don't always need/deserve to know why. We also tend to over think and over-complicate an issue.

I never thought about the whole females being larger thing, but that is true. However with them being so small and the other being almost twice the others size (I have pictures from when I bought them that shows this), I don't think that's the case. Even the large one wasn't close to the mature size for this species of crab. The crab was approximately one inch and the maximum size is three inches. I would think one of these will eventually have a growth spurt, maybe over time just growing larger than the other.

Now for a question. I know most crabs are scavengers, eating what they can catch and all. These crabs are no different. I feed them silversides every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I also have some Hakari Crab Crusine. So, are they like some fish, where if you keep them well fed they probably won't go for your other aquarium inhabitants? I know they might still go for them, but will they actually eat them? I asked my parents to check to see if Denison's Barb are sold at petsmart per your advice since they are so much cheaper, and I plan to put them in with my crabs for the time being. They leave at 3:00pm (~4 hours) my time so I need a response ASAP. I told them to go ahead and buy them if eight of them would cost me $20 or less. My dad does have a 100 gallon aquarium I can put them in, but it has moderately sized fish and depending on the size of the Puntius denisonii, I might be too nervous to put them in there. I don't plan on keeping them in there permanently. I will set up their own aquarium for them. I'd just like to get them now so they can grow and I'll attempt to breed them. Which reminds me, how've your breeding trials went so far Coralbandit?

*c/p* Thanks!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

They haven't spawned in the 180gl(didn't think they would) ,and haven't had room to pull them to appropriate size tank(my 75 is full of swodtails{200},but my lionfish and groupers are more than willing to help with this{my lfs will be getting 200 this weekend but they're getting some of my showas and more fancy(in other tanks)}).I recently lost my two oldest roselines from what would appear to be old age(somewhere between 5-6 years old).Very sad to loose two of my favorite fish,but I still have 12.
Honestly I'm working on GBR right now with moderate sucess so I don't know if I'll get to the roselines any time soon,but I'll never give them up, so maybe someday.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I plan to set up a new aquarium for my panther crabs. I want to move them to the 20 gallon long, since there is so much empty space in the 75 gallon they are in now, and I hardly ever see them. Also, I want to get some nice semi-compact sand that is good for burrowing in case they want to burrow. I hope to post pictures of the plan and the current aquarium by Friday. No, I WILL post some pictures by Friday. I say this because plans can change and I haven't been as on top of this thread as I'd like. So, if I don't have pictures up on Friday, that means something terrible has happened and you can probably expect not to hear from me again. If by chance you do, well, something will happen to me then. Lol.

I do plan on using this opportunity and any other to do hands on research with the organisms I keep. I will be experimenting with the organisms. Now, before you hit that reply button and start in on me on experimenting on pets, know this: I will NOT, I repeat, WILL NOT, harm any organisms. Also, note the "experimenting WITH", Not ON. The types of experiments I will do involve little more than trying to see how intelligent the organisms are, and in general trying to understand their minds a little better. This basically means, I will be doing nothing that involves pain, or poking them, starving them, or any other abusive activity. I will be testing recognition, memory, and other things.

However, as two organisms are not enough to do a full fledged study, testing, and experimenting with, I will have to wait for the organisms to reproduce, so I will have many, many more. I will need at least 100 individuals to test, study, and experiment with, and that is WAY too many to buy. Lol.

I will be making a separate thread with more on the details of the study, testing, and experimenting with the organisms I keep. I will post any ideas I have on testing and experiments I would like to do as well as any hypotheses I have that I would like to test for. This is mainly to run everything through this forum to show I do not want to harm any organisms, and so everyone will have their say on the specific things I want to observe.

Note: I plan on publishing all the things I do, and so I may not put everything down to prevent third parties from "stealing" data. However, everything I plan to do, I will run through you guys, so there will be nothing in my publications that I haven't run through you, or that you have said would be taken as abuse or otherwise, that the majority of you do not want me doing whatever it is. Also, I DO consider myself a scientist, which is why I plan to do this. However, I am also an avid aquarium hobbyist who does not want any harm to befall his "children." That being said, I will ensure that my pets do not become lab animals, and that I regard them as the animals they are and not things to mess with. That means I will be doing relatively few experiments with my organisms per generation, group, etc. Also, I WILL still sell them when the time comes, but all this will be explained in detail later on.

Now, if you advise against me doing this, please let me know. However, please don't spam. I will attempt to find out how to put a poll on replies to threads. This will ensure that there is no spamming and will be on my next reply to this thread and the other thread that will say what I plan to do with my organisms. So, please do not reply with things like: You shouldn't do this because.... or similar, or even your opinion, whether it be yes or no, as I plan to put a poll up that you can use to tell me without spamming this thread. If you know how to put a poll in a reply to a thread, please reply and let me know. However, please do not put a poll up yourself as I need to know how to do it myself. If you have any concerns or questions with me doing this, please reply and I will answer accordingly.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Poll: http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/community-vote-55818.html

This is where you may vote if you are okay with me doing the above mentioned.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Hey, all. I just got finished taking some pictures of my crabs, though I must warn you, they are not good photos. I will attempt to take better pictures when I have more time. I start my second year of college this Monday, the 19th, with my birthday coming up the following Sunday, the 25th. I will turn 19 years old. Erm, I mean young. Lol.

Anyway, I say that so you will know I will be busy for a LONG time, and I may not update this but maybe once a month, if I have time to, or if something happened as far as getting a new aquarium able to be set up, the panther crabs have eggs (least likely, as they are not close to being full grown and thus mature), I find the big one or he returns to me by some miracle and tells me of his adventures.... Okay, now we are getting silly. However, if that does happen... Oh, who am I kidding, I just want to find him. Or say they moult or something else that happens to be a breakthrough in my business or just life pertaining to my children - Yes, I said children. You got a problem with that? - that is worthwhile to jot down. And, just to clarify, my CRABS are my CHILDREN. I am almost 19, and no I'm not married. I'm not even in a relationship. Well, except my aquatic one - being fish keeping - but most wouldn't count that as a relationship.

Okay, enough about me. Time to get to the heart of the matter. Okay, what was the heart of the matter? Hold on.... Oh, yeah. The pictures.

Before I post them, I want to quote something I said in my last post, becasue it kind of got washed away in the stuff after it:

"I plan to set up a new aquarium for my panther crabs. I want to move them to the 20 gallon long, since there is so much empty space in the 75 gallon they are in now, and I hardly ever see them. Also, I want to get some nice semi-compact sand that is good for burrowing in case they want to burrow. I hope to post pictures of the plan and the current aquarium by Friday. No, I WILL post some pictures by Friday. I say this because plans can change and I haven't been as on top of this thread as I'd like. So, if I don't have pictures up on Friday, that means something terrible has happened and you can probably expect not to hear from me again. If by chance you do, well, something will happen to me then. Lol."

I am posting pictures now and have explained my situation, so I am in the clear for that. About the 20 gallon long I plan to transfer my panther crabs to, here is the plan:

DSC01079_zps082c8b69.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

Yes, I know it's kind of dark and so hard to see and perhaps read. If you have any questions let me know. The scale is one (1) square equals (=) one (1) inch. If I need to space any plants further out, please let me know. I plan to only buy the bare minimum (what is shown) and let it grow in.

For the slopes, I need some semi-compact sand that would be great for burrowing. I know I have the terracotta caves, but what if the crabs decide to extend their cave up to make a way above the water from their cave? I don't want the sand collapsing around them and suffocating them. :'( So, any suggestions? I thought about maybe black beauty blasting sand, but is it compact enough to support a cave, while being loose enough the crabs can burrow through it? Also, I would like something with natural colors, such as brown, black (preferred), white, etc. I know I may not be able to know where they are at all times, but that is kind of the point. I want it to be as natural as possible, while helping them to feel secure enough to come out more often. Hopefully this way, when the time comes, they will feel secure and confident enough to raise a family. Well, at least as close to that as possible, since crabs flurry them out into the world to fend for themselves. Lol. That is, of course, if they are a pair. :/

I am planning to move them because I am sick and tired of looking at a 75 gallon aquarium, where there is no places to hide, and they are so timid because of it, which makes the aquarium look and feel like it's empty. Sure there are small snails roaming the glass, but that's not what I bought to watch, observe, study, and breed. Also, we have a problem with this set up. Note in the plan I'm putting a sponge filter in. This is because, even though my crabs look like identical twins, I can name them and know who is who. How? Well, one climbs into the darn filter of course! Part of the reason I took my makeshift cover off. I thought that one would stick it's leg out on top of it and thus escape. Though, that's not what happened. Instead the big one escaped and went on an adventure never to be seen again. *sigh*

Sorry for that small rant. I guess the one didn't want to leave because it found an abundant, actually limitless, supply of food. *sigh* Well, I hope to prevent that from ever happening again. They will have an abundance of food on the sponge filter.

Though there still is one problem: a heater. Is there some type of external, under-the-aquarium, or otherwise heater that won't have a cord trailing out of the aquarium? At room temperature, the water is WAY too cold for them. I do plan to put a canopy or some type of cover on it, so don't think I'm trying to get out of that. I just want a VERY secure fit to ensure no more escapees/travelers/adventurers without a guide. (Which will never happen, of course, as they are EXTREMELY FAST.)

Now, on to my other pictures:

DSC01075_zps1bf43817.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
DSC01074_zpsa306a734.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
My two crabs. Really bad pictures, I know, but they are extremely good at avoiding the camera. Lol.

DSC01073_zpsf01b960d.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
This one I knew a crab was in here, and he was, he was just partially behind the gravel and partially sticking out through a small depression in the gravel at the back. And, to put it in perspective, a moment before I took this beautiful picture, the darned bugger was on top of the mound he hid behind. Lol. I just love these crabs. 

DSC01072_zpsfd4a3671.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
This is the current aquarium as it sits. No hiding places whatsoever. I know, I should've put more, I just was too focused on the crab and not their comfort. I've learned my lesson. *sigh* Oh, and the heater to the left is the one I think he climbed out of by, and the heaters are the only cords in the aquarium. And the filter on the right, well that's the one's feasting grounds. Though, when I went to get him out I pulled the filter media out to get him, and he wasn't on it. Oh! but he wasn't far behind, LOL! Usually I have to gently scoop him out of there. Just goes to show they are at least partially intelligent, and they can learn. And they even IMPLEMENT what they learn! And I've only had to scoop him out around five times. They learn fast, them buggers. <3 :crabbycrab: AND, they must retain some experiences because I scooped him out the five times over a period of three to four weeks! Now you see why I want to try and figure out the limits of their knowledge? They could hold the secrets to life as we know it! (Disclaimer) Though, I think it'd be interesting to see if they do have some sort of cognitive function or similar. I know this is highly improbable, but that's the kind of thing I like delving into because it gives me a challenge! And takes my mind off my loved ones. *sigh*

DSC01071_zps1818049d.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
This is the same view just with the flash. I don't know about you, but I like how the first one turned out better!

And now the long trip down memory lane.... *sigh*

DSC01069_zps43b65bd6.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
This is one where you can see what was my "cover," though it was more ghetto than cover. Oh, and when I moved my aquarium, before I took it off, I made it more secure in the front, but the back kept getting wet and was sagging once I finished moving it, so that's when I took the one off and then after no incident, took the other three pieces off. The one I took off first was the back piece near the one's infinite food source. I've thoroughly learned quite a few lessons from that one experience. *sigh*

DSC01068_zps0ae71b1d.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
And this one is right before I put them in. CoralBandit? See how the one is double the size as the others. That one, the big one, is only a third of the size as a fully grown mature one. That's why I respectfully disagree with what you said about the females being bigger thing a few posts back. I still think if that is the case, one of the two will grow minutely bigger than the other one each moult until it is a little bigger than the male as it were. Now you have a complete visual. 

DSC01067_zps906601da.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket
And this is when they were acclimating. I put the marimo moss balls in there for food, comfort, and a bit of shelter. Note I got one for each crab, and now I have an extra. *sigh*

I guess that's all. I will try to catch a video of them moulting, feeding, me preparing food to feed them and then feeding it maybe, and, of course, better pictures of the crabs as they are now.

Note: I'm sorry this ended up so long. I have just sat here for over an hour trying to get all of you caught up. I will try to only post them at half this length from now on.

Okay, from looking at the preview, maybe only a quarter of this length. Lol. Reply how long you would want future posts' maximum length to be based on this post! Make sure to entail an exact location, such as: Where the huge dancing crab is! or something like that.

Oh, and just to try and give you an idea of how long I've taken to write this, going down memory lane and all, *sigh* (Think of the good times Jacob, think of the good times.), When I started this I had just logged back in from being timed out. And when I tried to preview the post, it had timed out again! And this last little bit has only taken me maybe 8 minutes to type.

Disclaimer: I do not actually think of this as a relationship. I was joking when I said that, among other things. So please, do not take that section of the post 100% serious. There are some things I did say that I was being sincere about, but I'll leave you to decipher that. Also, I am still saddened by the loss of one of my own. I don't care about losing the money associated with him, but I do care about losing a beautiful crab to partial stupidity. Okay, maybe complete stupidity! *trying not to cry....* Seriously. But I'm losing............


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Just as a point of reference, since the "tell us a little about your aquariums" section is really ticking me off, here is my aquarium information:

One (1) 510L (135G)
~Plan: Five (5) Bala Sharks

Two (2) 283L (_75G)
~Plan: Eight (8) Roseline Shark
~Two (2) Panther Crabs; Marimo Moss Balls, Jungle? Vals, Anubias, Broadleaf Amazon Sword (All moving to 75L)
-->Plan: Four (4) Ropefish

One (1) 170L (_40G) Breeder
~Plan: Shrimp for Sale from BOTH Breeding Stock

One (1) 106L (_29G)
~Reserve Water Aquarium

One (1) _75L (_20G) Long
~Plan: Two (2) Panther Crabs; Marimo Moss Balls, Jungle? Vals, Anubias, Broadleaf Amazon Sword, - (All moved from 283L) - Crypt, and Java/X-Mas Moss
DSC01079_zps082c8b69.jpg Photo by J4C8_GreenGo | Photobucket

Two (2) _39L (_10G)
~Plan: RCS Breeding Stock; TS and eventually OEBT Breeding Stock (I will sell all TS before I get OEBT to protect from cross breeding)
~Plan: Three (3) Red Clawed Crab - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female

Two (2) _21L (__5G)
~Plan: Three (3) Borneo Orange Arms - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female
~Plan: Three (3) Borneo White Arms - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female

Will buy:
One (1) _75L (_20G) Long
~Plan: Three (3) Red Chili Crab - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female

Many _39L (_10G)
~Plan: Various Uca species (Fiddler Crabs); Six (6) Each - Two (2) Male, Four (4) Female

Many _21L (__5G)
~Plan: All color morphs of Vampire Crabs (Each get own aquarium); Three (3) Each - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female
~Plan: Three (3) Batik Crab - One (1) Male, Two (2) Female


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

Okay, so I just wanted to give you all a run down on what I plan to get in order.

1) White/Orange Arm Borneo Crab
2) Vampire Crab
3) Batik Crab
4) Red Chili Crab
5) Red Clawed Crab

After that, I don't know. The Vampire Crab collection will start after the Borneos, but will continue as I find new varieties. This means I may get a new Vampire Crab variety after I get the Red Chili Crab, or anytime I find a new variety and have enough money.

Also, I will not be getting any of these new crabs until I get my Panther Crabs transferred to my current 20 Gallon Long. As I've detailed in my aquarium information post above (which will be updated accordingly, so keep checking that post), I have to buy suitable aquariums for some crabs. The largest aquarium I'll probably need is the 20 gallon long, but that may change.

Well, I hope to update this thread regularly, but who know if I'll be able to. I'm going to be busy, so we'll see. I hope you're looking forward to seeing my crab collection grow as much as I am. Stay tuned for more crabby adventures!

Oh, I have a question. What do you all think is a suitable nickname for me? I have an idea, but I want you to respond to see if we are on the same page.


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## J4C8_GreenGo (May 19, 2013)

I was a little worried, as when I was going to feed my crabs before I went to college, I couldn't see any of them. I decided I didn't have any time to check on them or worry or anything, as I was running late.

So, fast forward to around 2:00pm Arizona time. I decided to top off my aquarium, and, as I did, I remembered this morning. So, I looked and behold! one of my crabs was visible in it's cave. I couldn't find the other one though. I looked in the filter and everything. I finally was going to move a few of the caves to see if he was hiding where I couldn't see him. I noticed a marimo moss ball had moved. I hadn't moved it when I was checking the filter, and no currents from checking the filter could've moved it. So, I looked, and behold! there was a crab. Lol! After that, I turned to put the flashlight on my desk where I normally keep it for such occasions, and I look back, and I notice the moss ball was back beside the cave where it always is.

What I'm saying is: crabs are clever little buggers! Mine was using the moss ball to try and move undetected by looking like the moss ball. I love them!


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