# Upgrade to 40 gallon



## sanmi (Jan 29, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am looking to upgrade from a 10 to 40 gallon. I keep two goldfish, corys, and apple snails and the aquarium is planted.

I've come across the SeaClear acrylic tank (without built in filtration) $193 from petco, which seems like a good option for a 40 gallon but I have some questions:

Will the tank be durable? Will the fact that the openings in the top are small greatly limit my options for filtration systems? Will the hood be able to provide adequate light for the plants?

If you think this is a good option, what filters do you recommend? I am thinking of canister style filters mainly. Any ideas for an aquarium stand?

If you think the SeaClear is not a good option, would you recommend a standard glass tank? What online vendors would you recommend I buy from?

Thanks for your help!
Sam


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

200 dollars it's way to much for a 40 gallon tank IMHO. For that much you can probably pick up a nice glass 55 gallon tank with the stand off craigslist. That's how much I paid for my last glass 75 gallon tank and stand. I got it off craigslist too. Acrylic is going to scratch very easily. They are not good aquariums.

You want a canister filter? I recommend the Rena Filstar models. I purchased mine at American Aquarium Products; Aquatic & Pond Supplies & Ocean Decor in Oregon. and that's where I buy my lights at too.

There's no shame in a used tank at all. Just inspect well and make them fill it with water in front of you so they can't lie if it has a leak. Tell them before you come get it that you will require that our you won't buy. You can get great tanks this way. People often have lovely aquariums but then when they have to move they are forced to leave the aquarium behind and they are in a hurry to sell because they have to leave. Because they are in a hurry, you can get them for pennies on the dollar.

I strongly discourage people from buying used filters though, and unless you really know what you're doing, you shouldn't by used lights either.

Sorry for any typos, I typed this on a smartphone


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## RylandVT (Jan 1, 2012)

That's the tank I have and so far I love it. I chose it because my local petco (my only lfs unfortunately) only carries glass 40 gal breeder tanks not regular and with the acrylic, I was able to lift it onto the stand by myself. The glass would have been too heavy for me to handle alone. The openings are large enough for what you need-I was able to fit a large piece of driftwood in no problem. I haven't had any issues wih scratching but I make sure I only touch the top and not the sides just in case. It is a beautiful tank if you have the extra money to splurge on top of everything else needed to start a new aquarium.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

sanmi said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am looking to upgrade from a 10 to 40 gallon. I keep two goldfish, corys, and apple snails and the aquarium is planted.
> 
> ...


Hello Sam...

Acrylic is much lighter, clearer and stronger than glass, but as you probably know, more expensive. You'll need to be careful with it, it scratches easily, but will make a nice tank. The openings on the cover should allow you to use most filters and heaters.

You can save a little on the filtration if you go with something other than canister equipment. Hagen AquaClear is a good one. I've used them for years in my large tanks and for the quality and price, they're very good. An AquaClear 70 should provide enough filtration for a 40 G tank.

Lighing shouldn't be a problem, just get the watts per gallon of tank volume close to 2 and you can grow most of the aquatic plants on the market. 

Just a couple of thoughts.

B


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

BBradbury said:


> Acrylic is much lighter, clearer and stronger than glass, but as you probably know, more expensive. You'll need to be careful with it, it scratches easily, but will make a nice tank.


Why I will probably never buy an acrylic tank: Glass vs. Acrylic - The First Tank Guide - The Differences Between and the Debate About Glass Aquariums and Acrylic Aquariums



BBradbury said:


> Lighing shouldn't be a problem, just get the watts per gallon of tank volume close to 2


I don't know why people keep spouting this off. It is so uninformed. Read this and learn how to truly calculate light for aquariums. The old watts per gallon rule faded from relevance over 10 years ago. Aquarium Lighting; Reef, Planted Light Information. PAR, Bulb, Watt, Kelvin, Nanometers, MH, LED.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

pH7 said:


> Why I will probably never buy an acrylic tank: Glass vs. Acrylic - The First Tank Guide - The Differences Between and the Debate About Glass Aquariums and Acrylic Aquariums
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why people keep spouting this off. It is so uninformed. Read this and learn how to truly calculate light for aquariums. The old watts per gallon rule faded from relevance over 10 years ago. Aquarium Lighting; Reef, Planted Light Information. PAR, Bulb, Watt, Kelvin, Nanometers, MH, LED.


Hello pH...

Thanks for the comment. I always enjoy a little friendly debate. My information is strictly based on my experience. Have had planted tanks for a number of years and the old "Watts per gallon rule" has worked very well for me. IMHO, if you avoid the more light demanding plants, 2 watts per G works fine.

As far as acrylic and glass. I've had both and the information I gave is true to the best of my knowledge. If you know more, than good for you.

B


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

BBradbury said:


> Hello pH...
> 
> Thanks for the comment. I always enjoy a little friendly debate. My information is strictly based on my experience. Have had planted tanks for a number of years and the old "Watts per gallon rule" has worked very well for me. IMHO, if you avoid the more light demanding plants, 2 watts per G works fine.
> 
> ...


I won't split hairs with you over the acrylic vs glass issue. If you read the link I provided, you'll see that it does support the arguments you made in favor of acrylic. (Acrylic is lighter and can absorb a hit with a baseball bat much better than glass.) The article just goes on to show why glass is the superior choice in many applications. There are certainly places where acrylic is the better choice, such as aquariums that need special arches or very large wall aquariums, etc, but these are far from the norm. For the sizes of aquariums people most often use, I simply prefer, based on the reasons detailed in the linked website, to use glass. I'm not concerned about how heavy my aquarium is when it's not full, nor do I ever foresee someone hitting it with a brick. I do however, enjoy the fact that I can use a standard aquarium stand and enjoy a much more open top, without the glass turning yellow like acrylic does in full spectrum lighting like I use for my planted tanks.

The lighting however, that I will argue. The watts per gallon rule stopped being relevant when lighting evolved. The very simple fact that I can take a 100 watt T5 bulb compared to a 100 watt florescent shop light (pretty much what you are getting in any off-the-shelf aquarium hood) and get a huge difference in light output makes that watts per gallon rule useless. Lighting has grown up a lot. Methods of measuring and calculating lighting needs for planted aquariums have also necessarily evolved. Then to up the ante, consider other lighting such as MH or LEDs. Apply that watts per gallon to an LED setup and you'll come out completely lopsided.

The watts per gallon rule has always worked for you in the past because it applied to lighting standards and lighting hardware of the past. It just doesn't apply anymore. It's outdated. Don't use it, don't recommend it to others. Since it's said that algae is the #1 reason why people leave this hobby, giving them information that will cause them to over-light their aquariums is BAD. We get more light with less wattage now, WAY more light.

Please don't use and don't proliferate bad advice. It's damaging. Teach newcomers correctly about modern lighting and set them up for long term success.

For what it's worth, I myself don't enjoy debating at all.


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## sanmi (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for your comments!

I understand the pros and cons of acrylic and do not need more help on this issue. I also feel assured that the openings in this model tank will be large enough.

I am a biologist and used to do research on photosynthesis in terrestrial plants and understand well how to measure different parameters of light. However, I do not have much experience with planted aquariums and would like some more input on what people find works for 40 gallon planted tanks. In particular the tank I am looking at comes with a hood with a fixture for one 24" T12 or T8 bulb. Assuming I buy a bulb with an appropriate spectrum and temperature, will one 20 watt T8 suffice for a 40 gallon planted freshwater tank? 20 watts seems to be about the max for these types of bulbs. Or do I need to think about getting a different hood that can accomodate some other type of bulb? Does anyone have experience with similar setups?

In terms of filters I was thinking canister or maybe canister + sponge because i understand canisters are powerful and quiet. I currently have an HOB for up to a 30 gallon on my 10 gallon and it is not adequate for my goldfish. I have to clean the filter multiple times per week to keep it running. Amazon sells an affordable canister ($60) called AquaTop that cycles 264 gph. Does anyone know anything about this filter? Power is important for obvious reasons and quiet would be nice because I live in a small apartment.


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

Get a Rena Filstar, an Eheim, or a via aqua.


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

sanmi said:


> Thanks for your comments!
> 
> I understand the pros and cons of acrylic and do not need more help on this issue. I also feel assured that the openings in this model tank will be large enough.
> 
> ...


You keep talking about watts when you should be worried about lumens, par, and pur. Read the lighting link I gave you.


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

sanmi said:


> Thanks for your comments!
> 
> I understand the pros and cons of acrylic and do not need more help on this issue. I also feel assured that the openings in this model tank will be large enough.
> 
> ...


If you get the acrylic tank, you'll need a special stand. A regular stand won't cut it.


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## sanmi (Jan 29, 2012)

My question about wattage is completely appropriate in this context. Read my post carefully because it seems you didn't understand. The question is whether 20 watts of a T8 bulb with an appropriate spectrum for photosynthesis is enough to permeate 40 gallons of water. In the case of bulbs of the same type with the same spectral emission, the output in lumens will be proportional to the wattage of the bulb. Since my hood can only fit T8 bulbs and I will only consider bulbs with an appropriate emission spectrum the only relavent question to ask is whether 20 watts is enough of whether I need to change the hood to accomodate some other system. If I need to change the hood then obviously wattage is not the only measure of comparison when looking at different types of bulbs.

So again, my question is do people with 40 gallon tanks using T8 bulbs with spectra optimized for photosynthesis find that one 20 watt bulb is enough or do I need to consider another system?


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

sanmi said:


> My question about wattage is completely appropriate in this context. Read my post carefully because it seems you didn't understand. The question is whether 20 watts of a T8 bulb with an appropriate spectrum for photosynthesis is enough to permeate 40 gallons of water. In the case of bulbs of the same type with the same spectral emission, the output in lumens will be proportional to the wattage of the bulb. Since my hood can only fit T8 bulbs and I will only consider bulbs with an appropriate emission spectrum the only relavent question to ask is whether 20 watts is enough of whether I need to change the hood to accomodate some other system. If I need to change the hood then obviously wattage is not the only measure of comparison when looking at different types of bulbs.
> 
> So again, my question is do people with 40 gallon tanks using T8 bulbs with spectra optimized for photosynthesis find that one 20 watt bulb is enough or do I need to consider another system?


Sanmi, read the link. Why do you think I gave it to you? For my health? It gives exact recommendations for a 40 gallon tank! If you were as willing to read as you are to argue, you would already know. Good luck.


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## sanmi (Jan 29, 2012)

The link only gives suggestions for LED, T2, and SHO bulbs. I am interested in what others' experiences with T8 bulbs have been with 40 gallon planted tanks. That website will only be useful if I decide to buy a new lighting system.


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## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

sanmi said:


> The link only gives suggestions for LED, T2, and SHO bulbs. I am interested in what others' experiences with T8 bulbs have been with 40 gallon planted tanks. That website will only be useful if I decide to buy a new lighting system.


I figured the math was pretty straight forward. Look at the specs it gives for the T2, compare to the output of the T8, and extrapolate in reverse. While the article mentions several types of lighting, it doesn't say you have to use one or the other; it's purely informational...

Short answer: NO. NOT ENOUGH LIGHT. You need at least 100K LUX at the bottom of your tank after about 12-14 inches of water penetration, and a 20 watt T8 isn't going to give it to you. You are going to need better lighting. T-8's are just one step above a standard shop light in terms of design and efficiency. (but I didn't want to say that and sound mean... that's why I just pointed you to information that said the same thing with the added bonus of a ton of useful information that would allow you to design and plan out your lighting strategy)


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