# First Readings



## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

:fish-in-bowl: my 45 gallon aquarium has been running for 15 or so hours now. I used black CaribSea for my substrate and decorated with large rock and two pieces of Mopani Wood, and have already already planted 2 Anubis Nanas, 5 stems of some sort of striped Longsword and 3 small bunches of red Cardinal plants.

I'm awaiting a shipment of plants that include: 2 Java Moss, 4 potted Dwarf Hair plants, 3 Potted Water Sprites, and 1 potted Baby Tears that I intend to float.

I'm attempting a silent cycle using the live plants. My first readings today were: PH- above 7.6, high PH- 8.2, Ammonia- 1ppm.

Should I start trying to adjust PH now, or wait? I have an outdoor goldfish pond. I know my husband just cleaned the filters a week ago, but would it help or hurt to add anything from the pond?

Any new advice at this point? :betta:


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I would never adjust the pH unless you intend to breed fish that the eggs of need low phan and soft water for.How did you get your ammonia to 1ppm and do you plan on getting it higher(most shoot for 4ppm ammonia in fishless cycles even with plants).Without adding ammonia your tank is not "cycling".Whether the ammonia comes from fish waste(fish in cycle and unhealthy for fish),or with fish food(very unpredictable),or from adding ammonia with no surfactactants ,you need some source to get the nitrogen cycle rolling as it is in reaction to ammonia,then nitrites that a cycled(turning all into nitrates) happens.
If you have a filter pad from the pond that you are sure will bring no hitchikers you could cycle in under 10 days POSSIBLY.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

KJCos said:


> :fish-in-bowl: my 45 gallon aquarium has been running for 15 or so hours now. I used black CaribSea for my substrate and decorated with large rock and two pieces of Mopani Wood, and have already already planted 2 Anubis Nanas, 5 stems of some sort of striped Longsword and 3 small bunches of red Cardinal plants.
> 
> I'm awaiting a shipment of plants that include: 2 Java Moss, 4 potted Dwarf Hair plants, 3 Potted Water Sprites, and 1 potted Baby Tears that I intend to float.
> 
> ...


Hello K...

If you just have plants in the tank, you don't need to fret over the water chemistry. The plants just need water, nutrients and the proper lighting.

B


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Actually I haven't done anything to get the ammonia at 1ppm. I just happened to read about silent cycling a few days before setup ( in the sticky at the top of this forum). It made it sound like it wasn't necessary to add anything except the plants and let the tank do it's thing. 

So if I add ammonia, it should be
pure ammonia and cause the reading to jump to 4ppm, correct? I need to go back and reread, but I should do this daily?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This is the fishless cycle thread;
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html
I would read it all and pay particular attention to jrmain82 threads.
Hopefully he will chime in to help you.
Basically you add enough ammonia to get to 4 ppm then continue with dose(the ammount you used to get to 4 ppm) daily till nitrites rise(don't even bother with nitrate testing).When nitrites show cut dosing to every other day I think(maybe I should read thread also).If jrmain doesn't jump in PM him as he helped write the tread.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Do you want to do a "silent" cycle or do you want to do the fishless cycle? A silent cycle is a fish in cycle in a tank that has plants, but it assumes the tank is fairly well loaded with plants that have started to grow in their new location. Basically, the difference is the plants help you fight the ammonia spikes and tend to speed the cycle because the water changes can be less frequent.

A fishless cycle is much different but can be very easy to do.

I'll wait for which you plan to do before I add more, but the top part of the fishless cycle thread covers it pretty well. The last two times I have done it both were done in 10 days or less.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

A silent cycle actually requires the tank to be 75% planted with fast growing plants.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Do you want to do a "silent" cycle or do you want to do the fishless cycle? A silent cycle is a fish in cycle in a tank that has plants, but it assumes the tank is fairly well loaded with plants that have started to grow in their new location. Basically, the difference is the plants help you fight the ammonia spikes and tend to speed the cycle because the water changes can be less frequent.
> 
> A fishless cycle is much different but can be very easy to do.
> 
> I'll wait for which you plan to do before I add more, but the top part of the fishless cycle thread covers it pretty well. The last two times I have done it both were done in 10 days or less.



My hopes are to achieve a cycled tank without harming any fish. I think I am beginning to sort out the two different options. I only discovered the silent cycle a few days ago. I went back to your sticky to make final plans to start the fishless cycle when I filled the tank, and discovered the posting on the silent cycle, and I thought it might be easier to deal with. Until that time I had always planned a fishless cycle so I think I'm better off to stick with that. 

Today I went out and got a couple small cuttings off the filter in my fish pond. It's always been healthy and I have no fish illnesses, nor any unwanted "critters" in the pond. I put them in the bottom basket of my Fluval 206 canister filter.

Do I still need to add ammonia or wait and see what the cuttings produce? I'm sure this is much easier than I am making it, but I'm pretty confused now. LOL. 

Thanks for your help!


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Here is a picture of the tank so far:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The filter clippings will help, but I would go ahead and do the fishless. The important thing about doing the fishless thing is to dose daily. Add ammonia to your tank little by little until you hit 4ppm, remember what that amount was and dose it daily. Stop measuring ammonia for the first week at least. It does no good, it will be high and you need to dose no matter what the reading is or the cycle will just stall. Test for nitrites after 6-7 days and once you get a reading, cut the ammonia dose in half and dose every 3-4 days. Continue this until you see the nitrites start to drop and nitrates increase. No need to test for nitrates until after about 7 days also.

When you described those plants I sort of thought they may not be good. Those are ribbon plants and are not full aquatic plants and will eventually rot. The other ones you mentioned that were in there sound the same...like they are not full aquatic.


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Tank is really looking good so far! The ammonia reading you are getting could possibly be from the substrate. Carib Sea advertises their substrates as "packed with living, water-purifying bacteria". Not sure how true their claim is. Also, the tall white and green variegated plant doesn't look to be a true submersible aquatic plant. After googling "striped longsword" I couldn't find anything that resembled what you have, but did find several similar plants listed as water garden plants (NOT completely submersible). water_garden_plants_1 I do admit it is cool looking though! The anubias you have planted will do better being tied to either driftwood, rocks, etc. The stem part shouldn't be planted beneath the top of the gravel/sand..only the roots can. However, you can tie them to a rock and then bury the rock into the substrate (have done this with very good results). 

The link I mentioned is great for identifying true aquarium plants and I use it often. To bad they only sell to retailers. <label for="rb_iconid_9">







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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

P.S. Ooops..forgot about this part:


> Today I went out and got a couple small cuttings off the filter in my fish pond. It's always been healthy and I have no fish illnesses, nor any unwanted "critters" in the pond. I put them in the bottom basket of my Fluval 206 canister filter.
> 
> Do I still need to add ammonia or wait and see what the cuttings produce? I'm sure this is much easier than I am making it, but I'm pretty confused now. LOL.


Adding some filter media from your pond filter, you have helped "seed" the fluval media in your canister. It will take awhile to fully seed the newer media and will still need to be "fed" to keep it thriving. Since you have no fish in the tank yet, you could dose a small amount of ammonia (maybe up to 2ppm on API test?) and retest 24 hours later to see what if any ammonia remains.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

I really appreciate all the helpful advice! I stopped by Rural King this morning to look for ammonia but all they had was foamy when I shook it/not pure. We are headed out of town for the rest of the day so I will have to try and find some first thing tomorrow morning and get it started. 

I will definitely get the annubia tied to some rock, I have a few good ideas for that already. 

The rest of my plants are being shipped on Monday from Alpha Pro Breeders so I hope they all do well for me. I need to do some more shopping to replace the two that won't survive. 

I'm really enjoying getting everything up and running. I can't imagine how much more fun it will be when I actually get to add the fish! LOL!


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

I started adding the ammonia today and tied my annubia plants to the Mopani wood (one plant's roots had already grown back out of the substrate and was trying to climb the wood o it's own).

My readings yesterday were identical to Saturday, and after my initial reading today I put the tests away until this weekend as Jrman recommended. I'm anxious to see how long this takes. I refused to even look at the fish in the pet store today. LOL! Next time I look them over it will be to bring the first one or two home to their new setup.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Those ribbon plants are non aquatic and will rot, FYI. I would take them back and look for fully aquatic or just get your cash back and spend it somewhere else.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Before I added the ammonia today I grabbed a water sample (It's not so much that I'm impatient, but more so that I like to closely follow the process. Haha) to test the nitrites.

I wasn't expecting any changes, but to my surprise it shows between 2-3ppms!

Should I continue the daily doses for the next week or go ahead and cut doses in half?


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Taken straight from jrman in "Fishless Cycle":

4. Once any trace of nitrites show, cut daily dose amount in half and now dose ammonia every 4 days.

5. Keep doing that until nitrites test 0ppm.

6. Once nitrites are 0ppm, _then_ test ammonia again and make sure it has zeroed also. 

7. You can test the system if you choose. Dose some ammonia and test for ammonia the next day, along with nitrites, etc....until it all disappears again.

I'd like to add to that though...if Nitr*I*tes have gone to 0, test for nitr*A*tes..you should be seeing some.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks, Dove! Trust me, I headed straight for the sticky post as soon as I got my reading. LOL! I just didnt't expect such a quick change and wanted to make sure it wasn't an indication something went haywire. I guess seeding it from my pond really speeded up the process!


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

I tested all three today since I had Nitrites yesterday. 

Ammonia-8.0
Nitrites-above 5.0
NITRATES-160 

All numbers almost off the charts! I hope it continues to go this easily.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Tested today:

Ammonia-0 
Nitrites- between 2-5
Nitrates- 80

I think it's getting there! Added ammonia (1/2 dose)nfor the first time since nitrite spike.

Will plant fertilizer hurt or stall the cycle?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Plant ferts may give you innaccurate readings as most are nitrates.I would hold off till cycle is complete,but jrmain will know better.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

They shouldn't hurt the cycle, but I would argue whether or not they are needed since the plants are taking in the ammonia before they start taking in any of the nitrates. I would say they are getting plenty of whatever they need as long as you are still dosing ammonia. They can also help jack up the nitrates, but jacked up nitrates are normal for fishless cycles.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you. I will just wait a while then.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

My ammonia levels are zeroing out in 24 hours, but Nitrites and Nitrates are through the roof. I did a 40% water change and after the next ammonia dose, get the exact same results. Am I still on track or do I need to do anything different?


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'd say you are getting close to the end, but those nitrites *must* zero out also (they convert to nitrAtes). Not sure about the water changes to lower nitrites/nitrates...been awhile since I fishless cycled. I'm sure jrman will chime in on that.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

I hope you're right! I'm getting excited for fish.  

Jr...if you see this, should I still dose every 3-4 days if it's disappearing in one?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I keep dosing. I know the nitrites are high but once they start to drop they will disappear very fast. One day they will be off the scale and the next completely gone. Dose every 4 days and if you are that close you shouldn't have to dose many more times anyway.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Awesome! Thanks again for everyone's help! Sounds like it won't be long now.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

Today's test shows zero Nitrites! Ammonia still zeroed out and my Nitrates seem to be hovering between 40 to 80. I want to call it 40 but it's too hard to read. Will it continue to drop on it's own or do I need to do something else? If it's low enough tomorrow I am going to add the first fish...maybe 3 Mollies. 

I'm excited!!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You have to handle nitrates by doing water changes, usually weekly. I would do a 60-70% before adding any fish.


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

I'll that tonight and retest to be it's all ready!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Now that you're cycled waterchanges dictate your water quality.The amount you change(%) is how much you will reduce your nitrates.So if you are at 40 nitrates a 50% waterchange will yield you 20 ppm nitrates.Change at least 50% before you start to stock and enjoy and congratulations!You earned it by it right!


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Congratulations!! That wasn't too bad was it? Wow! Cycled in about 12 days...might be a new record??


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## KJCos (Feb 13, 2012)

It wasn't too bad. Actually it was kind of fun waiting and watching. I think using my pond filter as seed material helped speed it up a lot. Still, I now HATE the color purple! Haha! I know it could have taken weeks longer but I was so happy to see blue yesterday. 

All numbers are now good and three Dalmation Mollies are coming home tonight to join the two snails (hoping only two) that must have hitched a ride into the tank on one of the plants.


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