# Keeping Plants in Substrate



## Squatchmen (Nov 1, 2013)

I would absolutely love my aquarium, not just 2 times or 4 times, like a hundred times over again if somehow I could just keep my plants in the substrate. These are the plants I bought:

- Taxiphyllum sp.
- Glossostigma Elatinoides
- Nasea sp. Red
- Rotala Wallichii
- Alternanthera Reinecki Roseatolia
- Cabomba Paleafformis
- Dwarf Onion plant
- Hygrophila Corymbosa
----------------------------------------

Now what I did to at least greatly reduce the amounts of plants still uprooting, is I gathered all the same kind of plants together, got them out of the water and took sewing thread and put all the stems lined up and then wrapped the ends of the stems up tight, then I took a small rock, like 1" to 3" in diameter put that on the bundle and then used the thread to wrap the stem bundle to the rock itself like everyone else's advice. Then I put the bundle with rock attachment back in the water and position it in the tank that I want and with my cupped hand holding the bundle, dig into the substrate pretty deep, I have 3" substrate and then make a tiny mound on top of the root bundle/rock combo. And then repeat for every other plant.

What do you know, somehow, I don't know how, they are still coming loose and being uprooted, most of the plants are actually ok, not perfect but for the most part they stay in the substrate, it's these Houdini plants that don't want to stay in.

- Rotala Wallichii
- Cabomba Paleafformis

I've heard of some people taking larger rocks like slate that would be larger than the rocks that I tied the stems to and the larger rocks would be there to lay on top of the stems underneath as a last ditch effort. 

I don't know, I'm kind of in desperate mode right now.

Thanks*c/p*


----------



## 20gallonplanted (Oct 28, 2013)

Are they in front of your filter overflow


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Are you by chance causing the stems to rot with the use of the thread? Like possibly being too tight and causing damage? I didn't catch what type of substrate you had. This is the single biggest part of keeping the plants in it.


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Just had that same issue/w Rotala Magenta. And I'll bet the Cabomba has the same stems, as in small in diameter and
perhaps weak. I planted a bunch of the Rotala somewhere around the 18-20th of Sept. and just about four or five days
ago noticed they had stopped growing. Yesterday I went around to the side of the tank to get a better look at the base
of them and found they had all rotted off just above the sub.
I lost some but think I saved three stems. I have a large pair of tweezers(15") which I use to plant most plants in my
tanks and I do believe I mashed the stems too much when planting them. I have other Rotala but Indica and they were 
older and more sturdy/thicker stems. They did well. The Rotala Magenta were weak looking when I bought them.
My question to you was going to be how deep is your sub, until I saw it in your post. You should not have a problem/w
that at 3".


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Whats the substrate?


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

1) Don't be afraid to push them deeper.
2) Some of those species listed are more difficult plants, are you running CO2 and fertilization accordingly? If not you may find them rotting from the bottom up or becoming brittle.
3) How deep is your substrate?
4) Are there any fish that might nibble on them or uproot them accidentally such as a goldfish or large pleco?


----------



## Squatchmen (Nov 1, 2013)

@20gallonplanted - My outtake is way above all the plants and it gives the tank nice aeration from the surface.

@jrman83 - That is a very good thought, I mean I've heard COUNTLESS people say they just tie the plants to rocks or driftwood with sewing thread or fishing line, I prefer the former. I didn't tie them that tight, but like a "good" tight, lol. So I don't know, like 90% of everyone says they tie them that way. Also the substrate is a mix of amazon cichlid sand and eco complete, 50/50 mix. The substrate is 3" thick.

@Raymond S - That is too funny! Because guess what, the stems are tiny in diameter and relatively weak.... I also have a pair of tweezers that are really long, I used them on the first day that I got the plants and, yeah, well they crushed the stems so now I only use my trusty O' hands.

@majerah1 - 50/50 mix of amazon cichlid sand and eco complete

@jccaclimber2 - oh, don't worry, I push those suckers in deep, real deep (if you know what I mean) I'm fertilizing, yet to get Co2, I also have one set of Current USA Satellite LED Plus light fixture, that's medium lighting, so I need another set. Also, at $115 it's not a bad idea at all. The substrate depth is 3" and this is my stock

2 Red Spotted Severums
1 Uaru
1 Geophagus brasiliensis
1 Bolivian Ram
4 Boesemani Rainbow
3 Cobalt Gaouramis
2 Blue spotted Gouramis
8 Cories
3 Plecos

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I actually did a water change that I noticed it was only like 1 and a half bundles that came loose - one whole bundle the thread came loose from the round pebble I used and the others were too tall and those came loose. So to get to the point I re-tied them to the rocks and I'm super happy at the moment and my tank looks tip top....at the moment. Also I posted this same question on Yahoo Answers and this guy gave me two options.

1.) Reef Gel. Dab a ball of the gel onto a rock big enough to sink the plant. Hold the stem against the gel. Wait 10 or 15 seconds, it varies by brand, Then plant. The plant and the rock need to be damp. The gel sets with moisture.

2.) Get a piece of 2 to 2.5" thick aquarium sponge, medium pore, not coarse or too fine. Put some soil (like that best for roses, clay with no vermiculite or other aerators) into a bucket with some laterite and enough water to make mud. Use the sponge to "clean" the bucket until the sponge is full of dirt. Shake and wipe off the surface of the sponge, Use a single edge razor blade to make a slash on one side of the sponge in the center, or an X if the plant has lots of roots. Now it is a sponge planter. Pushing down on the top of the sponge to open the slash, insert the plant and then let the slash close on the plant. Dig a hole in the gravel down to the bottom. Insert the sponge and then cover it with a thin layer of gravel on top.


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

The severums may be assaulting your plants. I'm not sure how the other cichlids on that list will treat them.
Your substrate is ample.
I would add CO2 before trying to leave the medium light range. Please be more specific about "fertilizing", as well as what the bottom of the stems look like when you find them drifting (healthy leaves and roots, rotten shaft, rotten leaves with aerial roots).

It is nice to see someone that has a group of corries rather than just one or two.


----------



## Squatchmen (Nov 1, 2013)

jccaclimber2 said:


> The severums may be assaulting your plants. I'm not sure how the other cichlids on that list will treat them.
> Your substrate is ample.
> I would add CO2 before trying to leave the medium light range. Please be more specific about "fertilizing", as well as what the bottom of the stems look like when you find them drifting (healthy leaves and roots, rotten shaft, rotten leaves with aerial roots).
> 
> It is nice to see someone that has a group of corries rather than just one or two.


I said this to someone on another site, the severums are fine, it's my tiny 2" Uaru that's being an *** and likes to tug on things on occasion

Gotcha about the Co2 - so save my money until then

I have API Leaf Zone as my plant fertilizer 

When the plants are floating, they're quite healthy, no mushy rotten stems.

Thanks for the cory compliment


----------



## jccaclimber2 (May 6, 2012)

You may be able to pot the plants, but more fragile things like the glosso and r. wallichii won't take much abuse even if you do get them to stay rooted.
Whenever you do get to CO2, go with a pressurized setup with as big a tank as you can justify/fit under your stand (I have a 20 lb tank for reference). Don't mess around with paintball setups.
If/when you go to CO2 and/or more light you may want to look at dry fertilizers (GLA is a good source among others) as they are much cheaper.
You may also try plants that do well tied down to things, or with extensive roots such as sword plants, anubias species, java fern, and most moss species.

Be aware that there is some debate as to whether Nesea sp. Red is a bog plant or true aquatic, so its long term odds are somewhat poor as well.


----------



## Squatchmen (Nov 1, 2013)

jccaclimber2 said:


> You may be able to pot the plants, but more fragile things like the glosso and r. wallichii won't take much abuse even if you do get them to stay rooted.
> Whenever you do get to CO2, go with a pressurized setup with as big a tank as you can justify/fit under your stand (I have a 20 lb tank for reference). Don't mess around with paintball setups.
> If/when you go to CO2 and/or more light you may want to look at dry fertilizers (GLA is a good source among others) as they are much cheaper.
> You may also try plants that do well tied down to things, or with extensive roots such as sword plants, anubias species, java fern, and most moss species.
> ...


I'm afraid of potting my plants simply because it sounds like it'll not only mess up the look of my tank but seems like it would be a pain. Like it's giving me headache just thinking of it. I might try potting sometime and see if I like it as an option or just for the record that I did it.

I'm definitely getting a pressurized system, also my tank is a tad overstocked for the size, I have a 55gal. So yeah, say what you want. I was originally thinking of getting a 5gal tank, maybe 10. Kind of don't want 20. Don't know why, just don't.

About the fertilizer, I might look into alternatives, it's just that I'm really comfortable with the one I have, you know. It's like I don't want to try anything else right now. I'll get around to switching to another.

I was just thinking of getting plants that are just a tad hardier, I'm looking into them right now, all I need is like a couple hardy, but pretty plants that are cichlid resistant


----------



## attackonthebass (Aug 3, 2013)

ALSO, I was hoping to order this stuff from AMAZON since my LFS's only have the colors I DON'T want

Does anyone know where I can purchase this stuff without having to pay more than 25-30 bucks for shipping?


----------



## attackonthebass (Aug 3, 2013)

I found one place on AMAZON that will do free shipping, but they don't offer a ( 2 ) pack.

UGH!!


----------



## attackonthebass (Aug 3, 2013)

sorry, thought i was in a nother thread


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Check on e-bay but try to stay/w dealers on your continent. Much quicker shipping that way. I have bought from Malaysia 
but most of the things were delicate types that didn't make it. The Philipine Java fern did...from there.
When I get them from overseas I don't hassle them about dead plants cause it's 15-18 days till I get them...in the dark.
Then to like I said, I tried delicate ones first. The E-bay connection is fairly good for plants so have fun. Oh...just put
Live aquarium plants into their search.


----------



## adavisus (Oct 11, 2013)

Shipping within the USA is $6 for priority, up to one pound weight can be quite a lot of plants. Like 30 stems anacharis.

Though, the way ebay and paypal is gouging and mugging sellers, 
(having looked at reviews on epinion, paypalsucks.com) you might find folk listing interesting, rare or unique stuff going elsewhere.

Try webstore, bonanza, ebid, aquabid for places where its easier customise parcels, to message sellers

Regards, andy


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

adavisus said:


> Shipping within the USA is $6 for priority, up to one pound weight can be quite a lot of plants. Like 30 stems anacharis.
> 
> Though, the way ebay and paypal is gouging and mugging sellers,
> (having looked at reviews on epinion, paypalsucks.com) you might find folk listing interesting, rare or unique stuff going elsewhere.
> ...


Have briefly read about the E-bay shuffle where the owner(s)(?) of e-bay have been "putting the screws" to the sellers lately.
A pity as it started out as a wonderful place for all. Not unlike what Yahoo is doing to your/my homepage etc there/w advertising.
BTW if you know of an alternative to Yahoo...Paaleease let me know about it.
I'll start checking those other auction sites you mentioned but I've had nothing but great service from Pay Pal...no exceptions.
Could you send me a P.M. telling anything you've heard negative about Pay Pal ?
Familiar to some extent with aquabid and don't think very much of the hassle to find something you don't know the scientific name
for that is say just off the regular beaten path like the Thia Micro Crab...you must enter the scientific name to go to it.

PLANTS:
If needed I'll give my list of sellers on e-bay for plants and tank related items to anyone who will P.M. me.


----------



## adavisus (Oct 11, 2013)

One example, http://www.paypalsucks.com/view_story.php?name=paypal-robbing-us-blind

With the dsr rating disaster, along with ebay more or less condoning and enabling theft, ebay is a revolving door for ebay sellers. Here today, gone tomorrow, nothing you can do about it. With the tide of junk and lowball listings coming out of asia, it's a pain to wade through so much crap

To give you some idea how unreliable ebay is now, remember, they claim you can 'Trust' them? if your ebay dsr ratings slip into the 1-2% range of low ratings 

(it could be two buyers don't like standard usps prices and slap a low dsr rating for something nothing to do with the seller) 

that is, just 1 or 2 customers in a hundred... ebay first withholds your funds for 21 days (could be illegal) then caps what sales you can do, then blocks you, anyone in your family or associated with you, from selling. Permanently. 

Without warning.

Do you and your family and anyone connected to you want to be victimised, blocked from selling, permanently? For no reason, without warning... ebay is dead from the neck down, a bad risk for buyer and seller



> The daily operational work is now focused primarily on retaining the the top 5% of buyers/sellers, many of whom have lost their patience with the continually increasing complexity of doing business on the site (fee structures, buying/selling policies, feedback system, etc.)


 (insider, glassdoor.com)



> On the one hand, they say they still care about the small businesses and sellers that made eBay what it is today but on the other, every action they are taking says otherwise. We have totally alienated our customers


 (insider, glassdoor.com)

Webstore, bonanza, ebid, aquabid are far more pleasant places to browse. They are better websites. Am all ears for other interesting listing, auction websites as there are sellers out there with great stuff which I'd like to find. Are they going to list their precious gems on Ebay? I don't think so. Am a bit out in the sticks and browsing special interest websites within the USA improves the postage costs

Regards, andy


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

adavisus said:


> One example, http://www.paypalsucks.com/view_story.php?name=paypal-robbing-us-blind
> 
> With the dsr rating disaster, along with ebay more or less condoning and enabling theft, ebay is a revolving door for ebay sellers. Here today, gone tomorrow, nothing you can do about it. With the tide of junk listings coming out of asia, it's a pain to wade through so much crap
> 
> ...


I bookmarked your link and thanks...seems to affect mostly those who receive from Pay Pal but that is from first reading.
Looks to have many good links on it so I bookmarked it.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hmmm....that story sounds like he was using paypal for illegal activity. I have NEVER had an issue with paypal and been using it for over 10yrs.


----------

