# Help with high nitrates!



## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi every one! I bought a 125 gl. cichlid tank complete with every thing needed to keep mostly mbuna's. There were 25 cichlids plus two plecos when I moved the tank and set it back up. I lost three in transit due to a issue of the faucet adapter not fitting my kitchen sink. It took about three hours total before I got the fish back into water that had any O2 in it.
It had run for a month before I did a 1/4 water change, then another two weeks before I did the next 1/4 water change. During that time, my water parameters staid pretty good except for the nitrate which just kept climbing. It has been another week since then and I have done a 50% change. That helped for a day but the nitrate is back up to what looks like about 80ppm. in two days.( Changed it on Saturday and now it is Tuesday morning )
I have been trying to find out just how much and how often I can change water to get the nitrate level down to below 40ppm. I have always been afraid of losing good bacteria in the water I drain out.
I found an article that states that I can drain 80%, fill back to 40%, then drain down to 20% again then repeat the fill to 40% and drain back down to 20% then fill all the way back up. This sounds pretty drastic to me but I have had two fish die in the last four days and I am getting more than desperate.
I have a Rena XP3 and a Emperor 400. I changed the media in the Rena one month after setting up the tank, and then the Emperor's media a week later. Both were left "dirty" for me by the previous owner. The tank has holy rock and white play sand in it. The gravel vac I purchased does not pick up the fish poop so I have to use a re-worked model to get it out of the tank. (read cut down version!) I hope the attached picture of what my nitrate level reads is any help as I am not real sure just where it is on the red scale!?? I purchased 2-size 6 bags of Nitra-Zorb and placed them one on top of the other in the Rena but they seriously impeded the water flow so I put them both in the HOB. They have been in about a week and a half but don't seem to be doing any good, I have fed what the fish can eat in about 20 seconds every other day. Some of it floats and gets eaten later but most of it sinks and is gone in a few seconds. 
Any suggestions on the drastic water change method I've described?


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Very little bacteria live in the water. Basically all the bacteria live on surfaces. Either in the substrate and especially in the filter media. 

What did you do with the sand when you moved the tank? It is possible that detritus and debris in the sand is causing the nitrate spike, especially if you did not rinse the sand before putting it back in the tank. Possibly try stirring up the sand really good to disturb and dead spots or anerobic pockets. 

If you didn't rinse the sand


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## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

dvanbramer88 said:


> Very little bacteria live in the water. Basically all the bacteria live on surfaces. Either in the substrate and especially in the filter media.
> 
> What did you do with the sand when you moved the tank? It is possible that detritus and debris in the sand is causing the nitrate spike, especially if you did not rinse the sand before putting it back in the tank. Possibly try stirring up the sand really good to disturb and dead spots or anerobic pockets.
> 
> If you didn't rinse the sand


The sand was removed from the tank but I did not rinse it when I put it back in and filled it with water! It was very clean looking and still is!
Here is a pic of the nitrate reading:


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I need 2 water changes of 40% in my mbuna tank that has 25 dwarf mbuna (electric yellows and demasonis) and two bristlenose plecos, to keep my nitrates at or below 20ppm. in a 125 gallon.
I change 50% twice a week in my 200 gallon that has 20 larger cichlids (red zebras, socolofi and bumblebees) with 5 cuckoo cats.
You need to check your ammonia and nitrite levels if you have replaced filter media in both filters a week apart, you MAY have started your cycle over again, the media should just be rinsed off in removed tank water only replaced when it is falling apart.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

How long has it been since you changed the carbon? They are short lived and many of us use Seachem Purigen (synthetic) that lasts much longer. Test your tap water and see what the nirates say with that. You will not hurt the biology of the tank by doing big water changes--just watch your temp when you refill....I have the same size tank with about the same number of stock in it as well...My nitrates are never above 20ppm. I would keep doing 50% water changes, but I would disrupt about 1/2 the substrate to get more toxins out! Good Luck~!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You need to step up your water changes.Carbon won't make any difference with nitrAtes(or most other nutrients).Purigen is indeed a good product that will help with nitrAtes ,but will need to be recharged very frequently if you don't get on top of your water changes.My guess is that you're looking at at least 40% a week at least, or lower the stock in your tank.
Everyone has been correct as far as bacteria in water column,basically 0 is there and you will not have any trouble if you change your water correctly(proper temp and dechlorinated.I have changed 100% on tanks with discus,and regulary change 50% or more on all my tanks.I also change like 10-33% daily on most.
The method you read about would seem to be vey effective and safe IMO,but reember to have replacement water very close to tank temp.


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## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

Jim Albright said:


> How long has it been since you changed the carbon? They are short lived and many of us use Seachem Purigen (synthetic) that lasts much longer. Test your tap water and see what the nirates say with that. You will not hurt the biology of the tank by doing big water changes--just watch your temp when you refill....I have the same size tank with about the same number of stock in it as well...My nitrates are never above 20ppm. I would keep doing 50% water changes, but I would disrupt about 1/2 the substrate to get more toxins out! Good Luck~!


When I got the tank, there was no carbon being used so I did not immediately put any into the system. I have a bag that I have added to the HOB filter since then. I ordered some Purigen just a few days ago and am waiting for it's arrival.
I have tested my tap water....PH is about 7.2...no ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate!
I tested the hardness and remember that it was very except-able at that time.
I have gotten very good at taking my water's temperature by feeling it. I am usually within a few degrees but I use a thermometer just to make sure. I have a JBJ 500 watt titanium heater that uses a digital temp. probe so it should be pretty accurate in the tank; I just match my tap water to it's current temp by using a small free floating thermometer.
I will do water changes at at least 50%! I had gotten used to a very lightly stocked 30 gl. fresh water with an under-ground filter. This is a very different set-up!
Thanks for the help! I very much appreciate it!!


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## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

Here is the Seachem test result for nitrate... I went for a second opinion in this case!
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## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

Here are the API test results...the nitrate in this says around 80ppm... but the Seachem test reads about probably 10ppm! Which one do I believe!??


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

easiest way to tell is to do a 50% water change and retest. No such thing as too many water changes.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

I would believe the API--I have had no issues or controversy with their results. If I had an API reading like that I would do back to back 50% water changes and then test again. I would get in the gravel/sand on one of those times, but do only half the tank.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Do you any other filters around that you can add to the tank? I would agree with the theory of the anaerobic pockets in the sand, and that you may be on a recycle with the changing of your media. I think you have the correct media now, but they need to build up their bacteria colonies. Or what you can do is either switch out media from another filter to this one. Or take that media and squeeze it out into this tank. That will boost your new cycle.


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## MGrant (Mar 30, 2013)

Hey, first of all...a big THANKS for all the help! I see a lot of caring water keepers here!
I have ordered a Eheim 2078 canister filter and all the media for it. It should be here in a few days and I think it may really help in the long run!! Until it gets a proper colony of bacteria built up in it, I have begun to add live bacteria to help speed things up.
I probably got rid of both of my filters good bacteria to close to each other and am cycling! I have a Eheim 2217 on my 30 gallon, but I have just changed it's media as well. Now I will have two filters in the cichlid tank and can change one at a time.
I will do 50% water changes every three days until I get the nitrates down to at least 40ppm.
I added some Purigen to my hob filter and will check as needed!
Again...thanks for all the help! Very much appreciated!


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

With those readings on the API tests, it appears the ammonia and nitrites are 0, so not sure you've started a mini cycle/new cycle when you changed out the media in the 2 filters. I wholeheartedly agree with others that the nitrates are way too high and were probably lurking in the sand bed. Back to back large water changes will help lower that tremendously. 

When you do receive the new Eheim filter, to "seed" the new media that comes with it, add some of the filter media from either the Rena or Emperor to jump start the bacteria in the canister, but continue to run the other 2 filters at the same time. This way, the newer filter can build up the bacteria and you will still have the filtering of the other 2. When I purchased an Eheim 2215 for my newly set up 38 gallon, I removed 1/2 of the Ehfisubstrat (round balls) and Ehfimech (noodles) along with one of the filter pads from my *established* Eheim 2213 and mixed it in with some of the new media (rinsed in dechlorinated water) that came with the new canister. Since goldfish were being put into the 38 gallon, I was afraid of having to newly cycle that tank. Mixing the medias worked wonderfully! I only had .25ppm ammonia show up in that tank for only *one day*, NO nitrites and XX number of nitrates (probably coming from the older media).

I also use Purigen in my canisters to lower/maintain nitrate levels. But Purigen is not a "fix all be all" product and will not lower the nitrates immediately...water changes will still need to be done on a regular basis.

*P.S. I learned the way to "seed" a new filter/media on this forum....THANKS EVERYONE!! *


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