# is this ich?



## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

I had an outbreak of ich that came from a recent new addition in my mbuna tank. It started with a lot of flashing, then salt grain sized specks appeared on a number of fish. I treated with heat and salt for a few weeks and the problem seemed to go away. I noticed the symptom pictured below on the cichlid pictured below during the outbreak, and it seemed to fade like the rest. Once I began to lower the temperature of the tank, more spots appeared on this fish. Figuring the ich was not eradicated, I raised the temps again and continued salt treatment. None of the other fish have any symptoms- no flashing or spots. This particular fish has had this condition for two weeks now, but seems fine otherwise. He is, as he always has been, one of the bullies of the tank and feeds normally. I would think ich would have appeared on another fish by now, or it would have gone through its life cycle after a few weeks at 88ºF. The spots also don't look exactly like the ich spots I observed on other fish.

Any ideas? If it's not ich, I should start alternative treatment soon...


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

thats not ich.

looks like hes been in a fight to me. im sure the more advanced aquarists will be able to confirm what it is.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know about the first picture. Ich sits on the fish, and that's how I tell it from the run of the mill spots and such. With no '3-D' in the picture, I can't tell. The cyst should protrude and look like a grain of sugar on the scales or fins. Picture two shows no Ich, and the bright white spots in picture three seem to line up neatly along the lymphatic system - they are perched on a distinct line. That's not an Ich pattern. 
I would bring the temperature down carefully and watch for the spread. If you are in the US or Canada, there's a nasty looking product called rid-ich I'd have handy - it demolishes Ich here with no observable side-effects on the fish. They breed after I use it, and shake the Ich off rapidly. I keep very small fish, so an Ich outbreak cause higher mortality then on larger creatures, and it saves me a lot of fish when Ich drops in every few years.


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## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

It originally started appearing in horizontal lines at the rear of the fish before spreading vertically. In fact, I first thought he might have scraped himself on the rocks, based on the pattern. Not so much, now that it has spread further.

I don't think this is battle damage. If he was receiving so many bites he would be in worse shape, and whatever fish doing this to him would have done the same to at least one other. I have about 20 mbuna in this 75g tank, and while there are definitely a lot of scuffles, this fish is a little too "alpha" to be getting bullied like that.

Let me try to describe the 3rd dimension here...some of the spots (especially newer ones) look similar to ich - little raised spots. The older spots seem to have gotten larger and look more like peeling scales. Could these be exit wounds from the cysts?

Here are some photos where I tried to capture the texture a little better.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

one of the fish in our mixed SA cichlid tank has things like that on his side, he doesnt seem to fight from what ive ever seen but who knows what happens when your not there? like you said i thought scratching on rocks was a possibility check out all the edges of every thing ansee if there rough.

i personally have only had one ich out break and they were perfect little dots on the fins and only 1 or two on the outside of the gills. never saw them on the body but they were a lot smaller that what your showing.


such a pretty fish tho!!!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I would reduce the heat and reduce the salt. Those look to be wounds/scuffs, or the fish equivalent of skinned knees. Salt operates as a skin irritant, causing the production of slime, which makes it harder for parasites to grab on. It is possible (not certain) that the minor wounds from the Ich, from fighting, etc are irritated.
My local water favours oodinium, so I would always watch for that, but in a clean hard water tank, that is unlikely. I have to doctor my soft tap water, so if I miss a bit, velvet lurks. It's uncommon in naturally mineral-rich conditions.

The fish looks like a healthy tough male that has been a little beaten up. He may have won, but he took on something ambitious. His enemy may have been the Ich.


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## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

It does look like scrapes or scuffs like you describe... I'm only skeptical of that because of the duration of the spots (much longer than a surface scratch like that would normally take to heal) and the way the spots appeared in horizontal lines across the body at first. Seems a little too perfect to be the result of a fight, not to mention that as one of the 3 meanest and largest mbuna in the tank, the only contenders to do any real damage would be my red zebra and greshakei, both of which are capable of doing much much worse. None of the other fish show any kind of wounds aside from fin nips.

The salt concentration is pretty low- .5 tsp/g

Still going to reduce temps and stop adding salt after the next water change. I'll keep you guys updated. 

Thanks for the advice!


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