# A Few Questions From a New Guy



## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

So i bought a 35 gallon hex, after many failed attempts of trying to start with a 10 g. Started with the bacterial start chemical ran that threw for 2 months and my levels spiked then settled. went to the store with intetnions of getting all the fish i wanted. But the guy said that it is a good idea to put feeder guppys in the tank for 2 weeks because there are things that the bactera statup doesnt cover. so i bought 10 feeder guppys ( only 19cents). Was that the right move? I tested my water last night everything is fine except for my ammonia which is at .5ppm. will the ammonia settle back down to 0 in a week or did i do something really bad. Also my water is a bit murky. ive tried adding water clearifier to it but it did nothing. What can i add or do to clear up the water? One other question how often should i do water changes? And how much? I apologize for the long post and all the question, but i am very new at this and very excited toget a established tank up and running. Any help would be Greatly Appreciated!


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

Read up on the nitrogen cycle. There are many posts here that describe how to properly cycle a new tank.

It is possible that because you waited so long to start stocking your tank the bacteria that you seeded it with may have strated dying off and now you're just starting a new cycle with the fish.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

There are varied arguements on the bacteria supplements, most agree they don't work. Regardless, the feeder guppies will indeed cycle your tank. Keep testing and when you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then you can call it cycled and get your fish. I also wouldnt do the water clarifier, it will eventually clear on it's own in time and through water changes.


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## drunkenbeast (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi,

i used feeder fish to cycle my tank too...it is a good choice. the cloudiness is probably from the cycle and it will clear itself up in no time also. i would just test the water and if your levels are high do big water changes to control it.
but if they are good just keep up with a weekly 30% water change and you should be golden


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> 1. will the ammonia settle back down to 0 in a week or did i do something really bad.
> 2. Also my water is a bit murky. What can i add or do to clear up the water?
> 3. One other question how often should i do water changes? And how much?


First off, welcome to the hobby!

1. This is what happened: You added bacteria supplement. The bacteria had no source of ammonia so they died, decomposing and generating ammonia from their deaths. Then, more bacteria colonized naturally and processed the ammonia from the previous die-off, resulting in spikes. Now, all bacteria are dead and it seems by the initial elevation in your ammonia levels after adding fish that the cycle is starting over. In my guestimation, you will get the same spikes, but this time the cycle will become firmly established because the fish you added are generating ammonia. No source of ammonia = no way for the bacteria to survive. In addition, the spikes might kill some of your fish. If the levels of ammonia OR nitrite get over 1-2 ppm, do a 50% water change to lower the concentration, otherwise the toxic levels will kill your fish (unless you don't care about them, but I do).

2. The murkiness is bacteria re-populating your tank. As they settle into your filter and into your substrate the murkiness will go away on its own. Don't worry about it. The other thing it might be is green water-borne algae. Dip a white towel in the tank water and if it's green, you'll need to do a blackout of your tank. Let us know what the white towel test is and we'll go from there.

3. I generally live by a 50% weekly rule. The PWC amount is less depending on whether you have live plants or not. Live plants do just as much (if not more) to improve the water quality as a mechanical filter. So the more plants you have, the less water changes you'll have to do. Also, don't forget to treat the tap water BEFORE you add it to the tank with some tap water conditioner, particularly some that neutralizes any chlorine or chloramine in the water, as these will kill your fish as well.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow thankyou all for such a quick response! i never would have guessed that the cylce was starting over. How long do you all think it will take for it to be completed? Should i do a water change now or wait? I put the fish in exactly one week ago. i would prefer the fish not to die if at all possible, but i plan on putting cichlids and tiger barbs in so chances of these fish surviving are small.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> 1. How long do you all think it will take for it to be completed?
> 2. Should i do a water change now or wait?
> 3. i plan on putting cichlids and tiger barbs in


1. A fish-in cycle, depending on the number of fish, size of the tank, and frequency/necessity of water changes, can take from 10 days to a month, from what I've heard (I've never done a fish-in cycle myself - I prefer doing them fishless).

2. Test your water. If ammonia or nitrite are over 1-2ppm, do a 50% water change. Also, check your fish for signs of stress. Red, irritated gills, ragged looking fins or scales, and abnormal/neurotic behavior are signs of ammonia and/or nitrite burns.

3. I would advise against tiger barbs - they get BIG and they are also schooling fish, so you would need about six or more for them to be happy. You could buy them small and let them grow for awhile before donating or trying to sell them, but if I were you I would buy the right fish for the right size tank and let them grow old and wise in your tank. Plan long term.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Im not looking for just a few large fish but would like alot of small 2 to 4 inch fish. what would you recommend for a guy wanting fun active colorfull fish? im kinda bummed now i was hoping to have fish in the tank by christmas.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> 1. 2 to 4 inch fish. what would you recommend for a guy wanting fun active colorfull fish?
> 2. im kinda bummed now i was hoping to have fish in the tank by christmas.


1. Angelfish get up to 4" max and are really colorful and have lots of character. They are schooling fish as well. Dwarf gouramis are also really colorful though more docile, and are also labyrinth organ fishes so you'll have to treat them differently if it ever comes to medication. Lastly, tetras are always a safe bet as well, though they're much more common than gouramis or angels and don't get as big.

2. There are ways to speed up your cycle. One way is if you know of any friends with established tanks or any pet stores that are willing to part with their used filter media, the stuff comes loaded with beneficial bacteria. A mesh bag of some used substrate in the filter does great to seed the tank as well. Bacteria-in-a-bottle is iffy because from what I've heard it's heterotrophic bacteria, whereas the autotrophs are the ones you really want, but I've had success with Tetra SafeStart where I was able to jump-start a cycle in about ten days. You can also add live plants and they'll take care of the ammonia and nitrite for you, plus they lower stress on your fish and are a lot prettier than the cheap plastic knockoffs. They're not nearly as scary to keep as many would tell you.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I really like the angel fish but my ph is at about 8.2 which is high but was told that that level is fine for cichlids but angels need lower is that true? Also i am alone in the interest in a aquarium. i dont know anyone with a tank. so im stuck for a month waiting for it to recycle? This is awesome and you are helping me out alot more than i ever thought. i really appreciate it. i was a little hesitant to post anything and get made fun of for how inexperienced i am and how uknowlagable i am. Thankyou!!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> 1. my ph is at about 8.2 which is high but was told that that level is fine for cichlids but angels need lower is that true?
> 2. so im stuck for a month waiting for it to recycle?
> 3. This is awesome and you are helping me out alot more than i ever thought. i really appreciate it. i was a little hesitant to post anything and get made fun of for how inexperienced i am and how uknowlagable i am. Thankyou!!


1. Angels do prefer more acidic (lower pH) water, and cichlids prefer more alkaline (higher pH). I would Google the particular types of fish you'd like to keep - there are fish profiles all over the internet and they all have great info. Here's the two I just Googled to verify my facts:
Cichlid Care
Water pH

2. That's the max. You could still have some bacteria in the tank. It's hard to say, but a month is the max. Test your water, and keep a log. When you start to see the ammonia AND nitrite levels lower naturally, your tank is cycled.

3. I love this forum for that very reason. If you'd like VERY quick responses to your posts, the chatroom is a great place to go too. 2,000 posts ago, I was a novice just like you and many more. It's a steep learning curve initially, but pretty soon you'll be preaching the aquarium sermon just like I am


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

With borrowing substrate and filter media you want to be careful though, because if the original tank you are taking from is diseased, so will your tank and such things. Gizmo is pretty much hitting everything on the head. If you need to lower the Ph in your tank, driftwood and peat moss in your tank will naturally lower the Ph, plus the fish love driftwood(especially plecos and corydoras). I have been told that human bred fish are a lot more tolerant to water conditions though. I currently have an Electric blue ram cichlid in my 7.1-7.3 ph water and she's happy. They do have dwarf south american cichlids like rams that make great fish


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## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

At ph levels that high you probably should stick to African Lake cichlids... Malawi, Tang and Vic. FWIW.. Angels, Discus and rams are cichlids and are all LOW ph and soft water fishes. Some of the west African cichlids (Kribensis) will coexist with the prior three. I suggest you work with what ya got (ph 8.0) and select fish suited for that environment. For my African tanks, I have to buffer up hardness (substrate) and ph.. My Angel and Discus tanks on the other hand just love my 7.0 tap added to fully planted tanks with driftwood. Don't fight nature!.. Bill in Va.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Im a little torn between the 2 i really like angels but i also like cichlids. well im gonna be doing a water change here shortly. im hoping that the water will clear up and the cycle goes smooth. i did notice that there are a few dead fish on the bottom. its not the end of the world but def. dont like it. any thoughts? all levels are normal except for the ammonia. which is still at .5ppm


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I kept Angels in 8.2 water for a few months before the tank was hooked to a CO2 system. I didn't have any problems with them. Angels are cichlids.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> 1. Im a little torn between the 2 i really like angels but i also like cichlids.
> 2. i did notice that there are a few dead fish on the bottom.


1. I would go with willem and say you'll want cichlids with such high pH. It'll make your life a lot easier, and cheaper, and they've got tons of personality. Just be sure you don't mix lakes or you'll have a short and violent battle on your hands.

2. Dead fish always worry me, but with your levels I still think you're fine. They may have been diseased with parasites or something similar. Fish them out (haha) so their corpses don't flood the tank with too much ammonia.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Wll tonight i came home with 2 Kennyi( i believe thats what there called) still have a bit of ammonia but nothing that is going to cause severe harm. gonna let these guys get used to the tank then in about 2 weeks or so go an get 2-4 more and keep doing that till im done. does that sound like a good route to take? ive got my eye on a catfish also. Random question. i was told tonight by the local store that i could keep a newt in the tank is that true? that would be really awesome if i could.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> i was told tonight by the local store that i could keep a newt in the tank is that true? that would be really awesome if i could.


Newt, no, as they are amphibians and need to be out of the water sometimes. Salamander? Yes (Or am I confused and it's the other way around? I should Google that...)


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

I wouldn't add any additional fish until the cycle is complete.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I tested the water last night and as far as i can tell my cycle is done. all levels read 0. PH is high but thats just due to the water. i put the 2 fish in sat. could i put some more in tonight or hold off a while. ive been patient for 2 months now watiting to get fish but now that i have 2 in there i wanna add more. haha


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## jaguayo (Oct 26, 2011)

Wait at least a week


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Alright thankyou


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jaguayo said:


> Wait at least a week


+1

Patience is a virtue we aquarists seem to lack


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> Patience is a virtue we aquarists seem to lack


That is very ture. i couldnt believe how excited i got with only 2 fish.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

it sucks to be in a hobby that needs so much patience when i have almost none to start with lol, give it time, you'll thank yourself with less headaches


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

From what I have read on the fish that you did get, they don't belong in a tank that small and require a 50g tank minimum.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

from what i was told at the store, that these fish would only grow to 4 inches. is this true or was he just trying to sell me fish? if these were to big then what fish will work for a 35 gallon hex?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The source I looked at said they get to 6". There are many fish that will fit in that tank, you just have to decide what type of fish you want.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

DO NOT TRUST STORE CLERKS!!!! Take what they say with a grain of salt - many don't know what they're talking about, and those that do tell convoluted versions to make a sale. It's very rare to find an honest up-front clerk, and then they get confused when you start talking about Do-It-Yourself projects and such (I tried to explain mineralized topsoil and the Walstad method to my LFS owner. She got confused).


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

I def. agree with never trusting store clerks. Although the store we got here there is one guy that is very very knowlegable. ive asked him numerous questions and he has answered them to the best of his ability. So ive been a bit absent this last bit (been very busyat work). ive gone through a bit of a rough patch here. the water has been murky and ive had ammonia stay consistent at .5ppm. i did a 10%water change last night so ill test again tonight. i got a water sample with me gonna stop at the store after work today, and have them test it. and if its all good ill come home with a few fish. Any ideas? i like cory cats, also angels. but am very open to any opinions! This site has been absolutely fenominal!!! so many knowlegable people.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Well last night i took the plunge and bout a marineland 200. up to 50 gal. should work perfect for my 35. i also got a blue acara. gotta figure out a way to rig up my air pump so the hose stays on the bottom an doesnt keep cloating up on me.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Chevyman said:


> i did a 10%water change last night so ill test again tonight.


10% PWC's won't change much. When the cycle is established you'll need to do 1-2 50% PWC's to bring your nitrates back down into the safe range (from 80+ ppm, they'll be down to about 20-40 ppm after 2 50% PWC's).


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

So after working out all the kinks ive finally got an established tank with 3 fish so far. 2 kennyis and a blue acara. all levels are good. and fish swimming happily. gonna get a albino cory cat and one other fish and call it quits there. 5 fish in a 35 gal. that will work wont it?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

It will. Just keep an eye on them for a week or so after you get them for signs of disease or injury, and keep a bucket of treated water handy in case you need to quarantine.


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## Chevyman (Oct 27, 2011)

Tonight i got 2 more fish. A firemouth cichlid and a pleco. So all together i have 2 kennyi, 1 blue acara,1 firemouth and 1 pleco. I think i have reached my limit. any input on possibly one more fish. i still have one more i would like to put in there if possible.


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## ChessieSFR (Dec 30, 2011)

Platys are always fun and don't mind high pH. They are hardy, good beginner fish, just watch out in case you get a pregnant one. They like to school, but I think they're awesome. They stay about 2-2.5 in, and they're active and colorful.

Besides, who can resist a Micky Mouse on a fish tail, anyone?

Chessie


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