# Various mosses fertilizer needs...



## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I do believe that on here I was told that any of those "ground cover" type mosses are better left to the experienced growers as they
usually require noticeable high levels of light and I would presume the ferts and Co2 that are appropriate for that level of light.
I have one 15" and one 18" light at 14/15W on a ten gal. putting it at 29W or 3W per gal.
These are the mosses...Elatine hydropiper / Tortula ruralis (star moss) / Pellia / Fissidens (both regular and mini) / Tricho
The Elatine's shriveled to almost nothing due to excessive heat(I read too late that 77F is as high as they like it). The tank now stays about 70-74
but may get higher this summer. Just a few sprigs dotting the floor now. The fissidens seem to be doing fairly well. The Pellia I fear is gone as there 
is but faint traces of green...but we'll see on those.
So the main holdoffs are the Tricho and Star moss. They are growing but exceedingly slow. Started out at about 3/16th or maybe 1/4" and at the
aria on each which seems to be doing best they may be 5/16th or 3/8th". That is after about one month of the 3W as before that I was rationing 
their light to kill hair algae and they had 15W for two days and 30W on the third day and so on. At 8 hrs I should say.
That tank has a (layered) mixture of 1/4 "Pure Laterite" under 3/4 "Eco-Complete" for 2".
So here's the 64 dollar question...
I really don't want to "feed" the algae and "Leaf Zone" has potassium in it. But the trouble mosses don't have much in the way of any root "system"
so I am considering using "Leaf Zone" to get fertilizer to them through the tops of the plants. I dose Co2 (either API Co2 Booster or Flourish Excel)
so that potent substrate may not be doing them much if any good.
Any thoughts on the likelyhood that leaf zone would help or should I just try and aquire more patience ?
P.S. I just ordered a 16oz bottle of Fourish Comprehensive to add some trace elements to that tank but mostly for the other ten which has no
plant substrate just gravel(which is not vacuumed)but does have a layer of that tan silt plus still has much in the way of hair algae covering
the bottom. I pulled out what stuck up about that but the gravel comes up/w the stuff on top of it. Seriously reduced the amount of the 
hair algae but not gone...too much to peroxide it. Hoping to get the plants growing enough to starve the algae. This tank has 15W for 9hrs.
Zoo Med Flora Grow T8.

Forgot to add...important info for persons who might like to start trying mosses. CRS eat some of them. When you have a handful of Java moss you
don't notice the loss. But the tricho/star moss and some other mosses come in thin pads which have to fill out by growing. Add these to a new tank
which has little or no algae for the CRS to eat and they go strait for the moss. Still your call but now you know.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I would look into Flourish Excel, in addition to the Comprehensive, in place of API LeafZone. I use LeafZone solely because I bought it before doing a side-by-side comparison with Flourish, and am going to use it up before switching to Flourish; LeafZone has only chelated iron and potassium, but Flourish has a LOT more (the website has a spec sheet with mineral contents).


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I must be missing something as what I just read states that Excel has one (1) supplement which is a Co2 substitute which,they say, is better than regular Co2
as it helps the plants use the iron better. And can be used alone or in conjunction/w Co2(injection). This link brings you to their site and that description.
Seachem. Flourish Excel
Actually I already use Flourish Excel. I bough it first but the second time instead I got API Co2 Booster which seems to be the same(though likely not exact)
chemical because of the description and here is that link.
Welcome to API Fishcare: CO2 Booster®
I do have intentions of returning to Flourish Excel after I use up the 8oz bottle of Co2 Booster which I bought. In fact I bought a 16oz bottle of the Excel as well 
as a 16oz bottle of the Comprehensive when I ordered this time from Petsmountain. They are less than half the Petsmart price on Comprehensive...a savings
of more than the shipping cost for both.
I have two tens and one is good on plant substrate as I mentioned above. I think I'll mostly limit this tank to the Excel, but the other one which has no plant
mineral additive type substrate but rather just fine gravel plus silt would benefit from the "Comprehensive" as well as the Excel. As the "Comprehensive" says
nothing about iron I may add Tetra Pride later if I see any symptoms of a deficiency of it in the plants. The first tank mentioned which has the mixture of
"Pure Laterite" and "Eco-Complete" for substrate obviously need no iron. Add more to that one and the plants could start rusting...LOL
But a once a week dose of the Trace minerals in "Comprehensive" may benefit it.
My original question about the "Leaf Zone" was relevant to the mosses directly absorbing nutrients through their tops as they have little in the way of "roots".


First part of post made on 4/09/13...this entry...4/10/13
I have read all the various products ingredients (on the ones which actually gave a list) and the Flourish Comprehensive has more Boron than any other one.
I think this to be important because it is mentioned as a "necessary" on list of nutrients required for plants to reproduce and that process is linked to the
plants ability to absorb iron on the sites where I got this info from.
I was wondering why it was said that "Flourish" was a plant mineral supplement as I had found no item named just "Flourish". There are seven products that
start with that name but have a second name behind it such as "Trace" "Excel" "Comprehensive" etc. but I just found a supplement which comes in tablet
form that has only the name "Flourish" on the box( Actually it says Flourish Root Tabs ) so perhaps this is what they were referring to.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Gizmo I just took a look at your gallery and I see you also like the small tanks. Hope I'm not making a mistake by going to a 55 for
my next one(and getting rid of any but one ten gal to keep for an isolation tank). The limited space of the small tanks and relevant 
restrictions are far out weighted by the ease of maintenance and price of things such as bulbs etc.
My apt restricts me to "a" ten gal or I can give them a "pet deposit" of $350 if I want a larger tank. (but there's no damage deposit
if I only have a ten gal)...I know if there are no noticeable "mistakes" that I'll get the "pet deposit" back but I just don't have very
many spare $350 laying around these days. Just hope they don't blow a cork if/when they notice that I have two tens. After all
doesn't everyone have a tank for the bedroom as well as a tank for the living room ?

I originally had but one bulb(18"T8 Zoo Med Flora Max) in/on my ten gal. tank. The Java moss was growing but very slow. And people who have grown Java Fern
know already the way the leaves grow with that soft tip which to an inexperienced person looks as though the plant is lacking a nutrient. That's when the LFS
owner suggested Flourish Excel. Used it and the moss became stringy, elongated and thin(because I didn't have enough light) so after about perhaps a year and 
a half of trial and error I seem to be closing the gap. I did however decide that Java moss when left alone to grow naturally is much prettier than the rush job results.
The irony of all this is that when I push for rapid growth at first...it stays that way and the plants get out-of-hand starting to overcrowd and requiring frequent
trimming. So I'll admit that it looks as though I really don't know what I want and/or that what I want today contradicts what I want tomorrow. If this admission
helps anyone to know that they are just human and not completely loosing it then I may have done something good for today.


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## thabadassone (Apr 4, 2013)

mosses and lilies tend to do verry well with pond ferts or ferts for flowering plants.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Plants can get nutrients from the water column and/or the substrate, but they (like terrestrial plants) much prefer to absorb nutrients through their root systems, with the exception of plants like anubias, java fern, and mosses that take hold on driftwood, rocks, etc. These plants need nutrients absorbed from the water. I'm sure you already knew this, but I need to establish a baseline.

There's also what are called macro and micro nutrients. Macros are carbon, nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous. Micros are pretty much everything else, like iron, boron, magnesium, etc. Carbon is easiest to absorb via carbon dioxide diffused into the water column, but aquatic plants have evolved to utilize bicarbonate and carbolic acids as well. The rest are dosed using ALL of the SeaChem Flourish products. The root tabs supplement substrate that has a high cation exchange capacity, or CEC, with the actual nutrients needed by the plant. A great example of this is sand; great CEC, but mostly inert as sand is usually silica, hence the need for additional fertilization via root tabs.

The alternative to burning a LOT of money on liquid plant fertilizers is to go with dry chemical fertilizers, such as those from GreenLeafAquatics. Once you get the hang of them, they're a LOT more cost effective than liquid ferts. You can buy some dolomite, osmocote plus & muriate of potash and freeze them suspended in water, making your own root fertilizer tabs you can push into the substrate, and that might save you some money too.

The point is, you need to be looking into a complete fertilization regimen or you run the risk of ODing on one particular nutrient (look out for the phosphate fertz) and causing either an algae outbreak or a wipeout of some of your livestock.

What kind of light do you have?

And yes, I like small tanks  I'm not allowed to have one, technically, but I keep one anyways and maintain the ability to break down and hide the tank with 24 hrs notice.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I have ten gal. tanks now so my bulbs mostly are 18" but one is 15". One tank has a Zoo Med Ultra sun plus a Quantum Flora bulb which is the 15 and I intend to change that
to one Zoo Med Flora Grow at 18" and I have a Aqueon Full spectrum in the 15" to go with that. That Ultra sun is a 6500K but the Aqueon is a 8000K so I'm really just 
reversing the bulbs but to a slightly better two. About 9A to 6P with no timer on it.
The other tank is now on one Zoo Med Flora Grow (they don't list a K rating) and the Ultra Sun will be moved there to go with it but on about 7 hrs and on a timer.
Those two bulbs work great together so I cut the hrs a bit on that combo.
While I have you...The Zoo Meds say they are good for "up to" 10,000 hrs. At 8 per day X 365 is 2920 divided into 10,000 is 3.46...years...so I should be able to get
at least two years from them. So why do people say 9 months or a year at most ?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm not quite sure, TBH, I don't change my bulbs often either.

What type of fluorescent bulbs are they? i.e. T8, T5NO, T5HO, etc.?


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

All my bulbs but one is a T8 and the other is a T6 which is fairly new but designed to take the place of the T8's as it fits and works in the T8 fixtures.
Don't know what they have at Loew's in them but for the plants I only have found two sizes and they are 15" and 48". Called "Quantum Flora" on
Petsmountain.
But for the news of the day...LOL...I have read and heard otherwise that the plants prefer to get their nutrients through the roots but can get it from
the water. Two days ago I put Tetra Pride in my tank that I've been holding off on using it in. Have Eco-Complete plus API "First Layer Pure Laterite" in
this tank so naturally did not want to end up doing what I've heard referred to as "chemical warfare" in this tank. But after three months of not much
growth in some of the plants in this tank...thought I'd try it. Took two days to see improvement in one plant. Think I see it in others but not as sure
as the main plant that has been giving me trouble. Hope I don't wake up tomorrow to a tank completely filled with hair algae...LOL...


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

One thing you must understand, even with the substrate you are using they can still use the ferts as the substrate will not contain everything that is needed and usually not enough of what is in them.


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