# How long for ammonia to spike after adding fish?



## Jenniferinfl

How long does it usually take for ammonia to spike if it's going to after adding new fish? I ask because I seeded some ten gallon tanks with gravel from my 40 gallon to set up some quarantine tanks for PetSmarts sale on tetras. I'm hoping that will be enough to prevent too much of a spike, but, I also plan to do probably a 25% water change everyday just in case, more if I get a reading that necessitates more. I only put 5 tetras in each ten gallon. There's also several plants floating in there because I heard that they help with ammonia. 

On a side note, I came straight home with the bags of fish, they were in the bags under ten minutes before I dumped them into another container to try drip acclimating. Anyhow, just for laughs, I grabbed a water sample and the ammonia was 1.0 ppm and nitrates were 80 ppm.

Edited to add: 18 hours after adding fish, ammonia is still at 0 and nitrates are at trace levels but not quite at 5 ppm. So, maybe I've added enough beneficial bacteria. I'll keep testing every 8 hours or so to make sure.


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## dalfed

Once a day or two days even with that light of a bioload is fine.
Don't you love petsmart, and people wonder why their fish don't live for long.


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## StevenT

Jenniferinfl said:


> On a side note, I came straight home with the bags of fish, they were in the bags under ten minutes before I dumped them into another container to try drip acclimating. Anyhow, just for laughs, I grabbed a water sample and the ammonia was 1.0 ppm and nitrates were 80 ppm.


Wow.


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## Jenniferinfl

The sad thing is that Petsmart looks better than our two local fish stores. The local fish stores have fish that look like they're either starving or have some kind of parasite. 

So far ammonia is still at 0, so maybe there's just enough bacteria seeded where I won't have an ammonia spike. I'll keep watching it though.


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## Raymond S.

Clearly a situation/w calls for a cheapo e-bay sponge filter. I've heard that many breeders are going to them for their main filters.
As was already said, that low bio load helps this, but a semi-educated guess says 4-7 days. The fish waste need time to break down and accumelate.


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## larryq

Jenniferinfl said:


> The sad thing is that Petsmart looks better than our two local fish stores. The local fish stores have fish that look like they're either starving or have some kind of parasite.
> 
> So far ammonia is still at 0, so maybe there's just enough bacteria seeded where I won't have an ammonia spike. I'll keep watching it though.


I am sorry to hear that. Lucky for me I get to frequently go to the best fish store I have ever been to. Its called "That Fish Place, That Pet Place" in Lancaster, PA

This place has isles and isles of freshwater and saltwater fish, live plants, and corrals. Its so clean and all the tanks look great. 

If your every by Lancaster, PA...... be sure to check it out. I would diffidently give it a 10 out of 10

Oh and the prices are good too!


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## Jenniferinfl

We used to have a few local good ones, but, those ones have been gone 5 years or so. Then a new good one opened a few years ago but closed in under a year when the owner decided not to take credit cards anymore. 

There are two decent ones within a half hour drive for african cichlids and 2-3 good ones for marine fish, but utterly nothing for all those other neat little fish. I'm jealous of your good fish store Larry!


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## Jenniferinfl

Raymond S. said:


> Clearly a situation/w calls for a cheapo e-bay sponge filter. I've heard that many breeders are going to them for their main filters.
> As was already said, that low bio load helps this, but a semi-educated guess says 4-7 days. The fish waste need time to break down and accumelate.


I already had a couple HOB type filters available, so those are on the tanks at the moment. I'm thinking your probably about right with your estimate. I found a few more timelines and it appears ammonia usually spikes within about two weeks. So I think I'll drop my ammonia testing to every 12 hours since it appears it doesn't spike that fast.


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## Raymond S.

Jenniferinfl...just in case...floating plants, along/w other nutrients, use ammonia as food...and at a faster rate than plants rooted in substrate as they get everything they
use directly from the water. I was searching for articles which talk about that subject when I found one which stated that most use ammonia as a preference and then
go after nitrates once the ammonia supply is depleted. That article said that the Giant Duckweed is an exception using nitrates almost as quickly as ammonia. So it is
in both my tanks now. Just keep it to a minimum amount around the edges(much easier to do that with it over the common duckweed as I have far fewer plants).
The article did not mention any floating plant which does not use ammonia or used it noticeably less. Goes without saying that this is not a substitute for a cycled tank
and the filter therein.
Being a devote member of the DIY crew( one of my favorite expressions is...experience is the best school but beware the tuition is also the highest) so therefor this
is research/practical application info. Algae is also in that category of ammonia/nitrate users. I've all along asked myself who goes down in ponds/lakes and rivers to
clean off the algae. So my concept of "natural" looking is vastly different from most people. Crystal clean tanks do have their appeal. But I favor a different tune.
In a thread on here in one reply a person said they raise fry( up to 100) in a small tank which is clogged/w hair algae with no ammonia readings because of the rate
at which it uses up the ammonia. Don't know if any of that would be useful in this case but shows what people do when they get up at 1:30 in the A.M.
I'll include a picture of my oldest tank. First set up / latest / side view of DIY built in bio-filter(still evolving)...no pads, screens to interfere/w fry/daphnia passing
through. I realize it doesn't appeal to everyone...the rocks(shale) and gravel on the walls are for algae to have a place to cling to, not actually as a decoration
in themselves.


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## Jenniferinfl

That's a neat setup actually, I may attempt something similar. I was actually thinking of picking up some of those sponge filters, but, just haven't got to it yet. I don't really mind most of the algae's either, so long as they aren't killing the plants, I would probably let them stay. But, so far I don't have any in my 40 gallon tank, but, may be because of the quantity of plants. 

I actually have a few new plants that are floating out in those ten gallon tanks with the new fish and they have created an interesting anomaly in my readings. 

Last night, ammonia was at 0. I didn't bother to test nitrates as I knew I had at least 5 ppm because that's what I got as a reading when I set up the tanks. My baseline was 5 ppm after I added biological material from my other tank and my tap water is not at 0 nitrates either. This morning, I had .25 ammonia in one tank and just above 0 in the other (slightly green, but, not 0.25 yet). I went ahead and tested for nitrites and got 0, tested for nitrates and, surprise, 0. I redid the test on both tanks and once again got 0. Like bright yellow, no doubt at all, 0. My tap water still reads above 0. So, the best I can figure is that the plants did remove nitrates in the absence of ammonia. I'm using natural lighting for these tanks, they are out in my sunroom and should start getting indirect lighting in about half an hour or so. (they never get direct sunlight, just indirect) I wonder if ammonia will be reduced to 0 by dusk? If it's not at 0 by dusk or so I'll go ahead and do a 25% water change on each tank to keep the ammonia to trace levels. Though, it does make me wonder how bad off my 40 gallon tank would be without plants.


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## Raymond S.

This one was an advanced version of the one pictured below. I re-did that one/w rocks(gravel) but over did it...one end and the back I believe would have been better, the end/w the filter and leave the other end free. Haven't done it/don't know if I'll let it till the next one but black or blue spray paint on the outside
of the glass or even white would improve it when viewed from the inside(front). I'm lease bound to the ten's and they just don't have the room to build a
setting which doesn't look as though someone "just put things where they would look good". Looks contrived or set up.
These all make good bio media for this purpose.
Hagen Fluval Pre-Filter Media 750 grams Aquarium Filter Bio Media
Seachem Matrix Bio-Media Aquarium Filter Bio Media
CPR Bio Bale 1 Gallon Best Biological Filte Media White | eBay
First pix original bio-filter without media / during re-do shown from top / diagonal glass is food baffle right angle glass is actual filter / side view / first photo as it
was being filled / after one month / latest 







Hope I can do this clearly...2 4"x11" pieces of glass make the corner enclosed, one from the end and one from the back, the one running parallel to the length
is higher. 1 piece 1.5" x 9" diagonally across the corner where box meets end to act as up-draft tube/w air stone in it. Slate in photo is on top
of that to deflect bubbles towards center of tank. Your own design will be an improvement I'm sure. Grid at bottom is plastic fluorescent light grid up on
anything that will hold it at right height.


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## Jenniferinfl

Raymond, that's a pretty neat design you've got going on there. I don't know if I'm quite that handy, but I think I'll take a stab at it next time I set up a ten gallon. We cut glass at my place of employment, so I can always get glass scraps. I'll have to watch for some about the right size. 

Interestingly, I noticed that the tank with the lower ammonia also was the one where the plants were still floating, the other tank with higher ammonia the plants had sank to the bottom. I repositioned them this morning so that they were partially emerged and by evening ammonia was below .25 though not 0 in that tank. Nitrites still at 0 in both tanks, but, tank one may have been just a bit off of 0 for nitrates. Not enough to be a definite reading, just not quite bright yellow. Hmm. I'm still hoping I'm just going to have a mini cycle with these tanks. But, eh, we'll see. Probably going to water change in the morning regardless of readings and just keep testing. I need to find the ammonia and nitrate tests in jumbo bottles.. lol

Edited to add that evening of the 7th I still have around .25 ammonia, looks like less than that, but close. Definitely have trace nitrates now in both tanks, not enough to be 5 ppm, but not bright yellow either. 0 nitrites for both. Fish were put into tanks around 6 pm on July 4th, so that's around 72 hours with fish in the tanks. Ammonia showed up somewhere between 24 and 32 hours after. So, holding at .25 ppm ammonia for around 40 hours now. 

I went ahead and rinsed the other filter in my main tank lightly to add a little more good bacteria to the new tanks. Gravel hasn't been thoroughly vacuumed due to being planted, so I think I can get away with it. But, will keep up on testing in my old tank to make sure I didn't remove too much. I've got a bunch of duckweed in my parents pond that I'm going to go over and harvest tomorrow to really fill the tanks with plants. 

Also filled my 20 gallon tank with water and the 5 gallon and threw filters on them and some floating plants. No substrate yet.


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## Jenniferinfl

Thought I'd update in a new post and then edit this one with results so far.. 

Ammonia in both ten gallon tanks is still holding at 0.25 ppm. One tank had trace nitrites, the color wasn't quite the shade of blue it's supposed to be but a slightly different shade of blue, not really near 0.25 ppm. Both tanks had nitrates, right between 0 and 5.0 ppm, guesstimating around 2.5 ppm. Definitely more nitrates than yesterday. This evening I added a bunch of duckweed to the tanks, so hopefully that helps out even more. Really happy to see the ammonia not moving up and more nitrates showing up. 

Setting up new tanks is so much more fun once you have a fully cycled tank to seed them from.


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## jrman83

You can't predict an ammonia spike as it has to do with too many factors...bio-load, filtration, tank size. What one tank saw will not match what any other saw. From what you've posted, I'd be surprised if you ever saw much.


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## Raymond S.

Wouldn't risk calling it research but reading maybe was what I did a bit of on the subject of which plants use what chemicals, mostly ammonia and nitrates.
So the last thing that I read(until I pick up the next article) was that 98% of most plants go first for the ammonia and then when that is depleted they go
for the nitrates. What place the article was I don't remember but they talked mostly about duckweed. Though not described the wording of the article
sounded as though test were done and the reason I brought it up was that they stated that Giant duckweed did the nitrates at the same time as the
ammonia rather than not using any of it till the ammonia was gone. I now have it in both my tanks and find it much easier to deal/w than hundreds of
tiny plants dividing daily...much easier to remove the excess. Got it on e-bay. They sent way too much even at 1/2 cup or might have been 1/4 cup.
Thought it might be helpful to you or whomever...


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## Jenniferinfl

I'll have to find out if what I have is regular duckweed or giant duckweed. I bought it probably a decade ago to add to my parents koi pond. 

Jrman83, yeah, I agree. A tank with no plants, stocked to capacity with a HOB filter undersized for the bioload will make for a bigger ammonia spike a lot sooner than a heavily planted tank lightly stocked. 

Interestingly, one tank is already down to 0 ammonia. The other tank is still hovering around 0.25 ppm ammonia. The tank that had trace nitrites is the one at 0 ammonia. Probably going to retest nitrites to verify that those numbers didn't go crazy and see if tank 1 zeroed out. 

I know this wouldn't work for every tank, but, it's neat to see how fast seeding plus live plants can move you through a cycle.

Edited to add, yesterday evening I had a nitrite spike in both tanks, to 2.0 and 1.0 respectively. Promptly changed enough water to bring down to trace levels. This afternoon I had to do another water change, but, the levels were only 0.5 and 0.25 before the water change. BUT, ammonia is at 0, and has been at 0 for 24 hours now. So, at least it would seem the ammonia part of the cycle is over, now just to get through the nitrite part.


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