# Big hole in molly, mollies keep dying.



## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

I have a 55 gal tank that has been running for months. When it was first setup, the fish got ich and fungus. I treated and seemed to have cleared it up. The tetras (both black and normal neon tetras, black skirt tetras, lampeye tetras), guppies, cae's, and pleco seem to be fine. There are 2 baby black molies (born soon after the tank was setup) and 1 baby guppy that are fine. The babies seem to be growing very slowly (1 molly is about 1/3 the size of an adult, one much smaller after probably 4 months or more, and the guppy is still fry sized). 

Everything is fine except the adult mollies keep slowly dieing (maybe 1 every 2-3 weeks). This is the first time I saw such a wound. I can only assume a parasite or the Chinese algae eaters are attacking? I have lost more than half the mollys over time. 


I have an api master test kit and water is fine (nitrates are high at times but I think the test reads high and I do water changes to eliminate it anyway). Other parameters are always fine (no ammonia or nitrites). 

What does this look like and or what could be slowly killing them? This is the the first time I have seen such a hole.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Could very easily be the CAE. From what I have read they do munch on the slimecoats and eventually the fishes.


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks for the opinion. I didn't know they would turn carnivorousness when I got them. I had one (bigger than the rest in either tank) start visible chasing fish and I'm pretty sure he took out one of my dwarf frogs. That was in another tank. He has been put in another tank. I think I'm going to put them all up on craigslist for free tonight to get rid of them all.


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## Sherry (Nov 22, 2011)

Yes it could be your CAE. Mine is in his own tank now. He is 6" long and chewing the tails right off my panda cory's. I have been trying to give mine away for weeks, with no luck yet. I will keep him until the spring and that's it.


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## gar1948 (Jan 25, 2012)

In order for mollies to do well they need salt in the water. I would not mix them with other fish that need no salt.


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

gar1948 said:


> In order for mollies to do well they need salt in the water. I would not mix them with other fish that need no salt.


unfortunately I didn't know that at the time (I didn't really know it till I found out about using salt to treat disease and some fishes intolerance for it compared to others). At this point, there are a lot more tetras than mollies as the mollies have slowly died off (or got killed). Would even a tiny amount of salt help the mollies, and or hurt the tetras or guppies (though the guppies could more easily be moved)?


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

Could this be related? This black molly looks huge. On the front profile the fish is quite wide too. It crossed my mind that perhaps there was some sort of stomach parasite ready to burst out like in aliens, lol. Other mollies are sniffing around it like it was pregnant though. I don't see any squaring off or anything but have only looked into it a little. It can get to the top or the bottom of the tank and can move around, but kind of slowly waddles around with slow movements. It kind of looks huge all around though more so in the stomach. In other words it doesn't look like a small fish with a huge stomach, it looks like a huge fish with a huge stomach. I'm just kind of grasping at straws (up till a minute ago I was still convinced it was the cae) but this fish doesn't look right.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

looks like 'dropsy' a bacterial infection, here's a link; Fish Disease and Treatment


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Definetly dropsy, see that the scales look like they're standing up? And that would explain why it looks bigger because its bloated, I know you said your water contions were good but can you give actual numbers? Mollies can very easily catch disease if not given the right conditions


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

I tested nitrates last night and they were between 20-40 (I always have a hard time with the api nitrate chart). I'll test the ammonia and nitrite right now.

I thought I might have found the problem with being the ph but after a little searching, maybe not. I got the same ammonia and nitrite results I always get on all my tanks now that they are well established. 

Nitrite is 0
Ammonia is just above 0 (less than 0.25 ppm)
On the api master kit, straight yellow is 0. as it turns to greener, the number is higher. Every single time I test any of my tanks it is yellow with the ever slightest hint of green (less than the amount to indicate 0.25 ppm). So basically there is ammonia in there but just a tiny amount. 

ph was 7.6 or higher (thought that was it but then read mollies do well in higher ph). I'll retest though, and do the high range ph test and post the results.


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

Low range ph goes from 7.2 to 7.6. There is not another step so no way to tell if it is higher (it was closest to the 7.6 color). Thats what made me think its might be even higher. The high range starts with 7.4 and then 7.8. The color matches 7.4. 

So If I understand dropsy right, its causes are unknown though there are many things that are suspected to cause it. Once a fish is that far gone it is past the point of return (is it worth trying to treat)? It is non contagious to mildly contagious (mostly spread from fish eating on a dead infected fish). Treatment usually doesn't work but trying to feed food dosed with antibiotics is your best chance. 

Is that all about right?


My hospital tank is unfortunately full of baby corries (only a few days old, I don't dare move them). I would only have a fish bowl to put him in. Maybe I could do it long enough to feed medicated food (dose food with maracyn as it is the only thing I have right now that treats it). Further, with a molly dropping every few weeks, I'm thinking there has got to be something environmental causing it. Do I dose the whole tank with antibiotics? Do I use full dose or just a small dose? I'm kind of at a loss how to proceed except I'll remove the bad one to a fish bowl short term and feed medicated food (its not like it has to stay in there forever). 

Any other ideas or suggestions? Fyi weather the cae are involved or not, everything I read says they will eventually start attacking fish so I'll probably get rid of them regardless. One if the other tank got caught attacking and sucking on fish (and probably killed a frog).


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

by the way your don't need salt if your water contains proper hardness factors(TDS).Salt is used to raise ph and hardness.Total dissolved solids are one part of equation.The disease chart I supplied should have the answer within it. Your disease is bacterial and often from stress(any kind ...ie disease, improper water or tank mates) a secondary infection will arise,often catching the eye better than original condition. "I would cross reference chart (I supplied) and see to any other treatments or cause that could possibly be in force"Anything bacterial could apply. None of us(that I'm aware of) are DR.s so you have to diagnose and choose for yourself.I often will "send" the ill fish if the total value of everything else is greater or the outcome looks bleek.Investigate(read chart and any other info on dropsy) think,observe and treat.I would dispose of such threat in my tank as total value is greater than one "ill fish farm produced defect".I also would say your nitrAtes are ok but really,really keep an eye on your water quality(the cause of this issue),treat your whole tank and for the love of fish, change water ;as much as you can as often as you can."Inkmaker"


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Dropsy is more a symptom than a disease. Like a runny nose.It could be organ failure or something as simple as bacterial, or even a parasite irritating to the point the fish raises the scales hoping it leaves. You can look for other signs and try to treat.

I would rehome the CAEs regardless, for reasons already touched upon.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I also failed to mention ;good for you reading up on your CAE(send them too)as they have no place with non aggressive fish.No community needs a bully.You're proof that if you care you research and invetigate and that's more important than info any of us will offer.


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

majerah1 said:


> Dropsy is more a symptom than a disease. Like a runny nose.It could be organ failure or something as simple as bacterial, or even a parasite irritating to the point the fish raises the scales hoping it leaves. You can look for other signs and try to treat.
> 
> I would rehome the CAEs regardless, for reasons already touched upon.


I already plan on it. I have to wonder if stress from the cae's are a factor. There may also be a disease factor (fungus/columaris). Wouldn't these kill fast and kill the tetras though? I have to go to work but I'll give more detail on that including a huge outbreak that killed many months back in this tank tonoght.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

there you go! nice cross reference,bacteria leads to other bacteria.Antibiotics seem to your choice.I would treat whole tank (regardless of apearance)and start a more thorough water change schedule.Water changes are the cheapest thing possible and proven(step 1 of most meds) to help reduce issues.


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## ripit (Aug 8, 2012)

So here is the story I didn't have time to post earlier. 4+ months ago when this tank was setup, it got a bad case of fungus and ich. I originally thought it was columaris and treated with antibiotics (these were the wrong kind for dropsy). It had no effect and some of the mollies got horrible and died. I had a problem with a particular food that fungused very easily and the tank was spread with fungus (and I realized that was what was on the fish). I used hydrogen peroxide to treat the fungus which worked very well. As the fungus cleared up, the ich became more obvious and I treated for that. The mollies took the brunt of the bad effects and I lost many but it seemed to have cleared up and was fine. Some of the black mollies had whiteness around the edge of the gills (no telling on the dalmatian or the white ones). Some seemed to have small white patches (looked like it could just be coloration, not disease). I never really could tell if there was a problem but they seemed fine. Here and there, I would loose mollies for unexplained reasons (maybe 1-2 a month). I'm not so sure the mollies didn't take some permanent damage from the big disease outbreak. The tetras were never effected near as bad. 

Feeding is a problem. The mollies always get to the food first and pig out. I have to feed enough the other fish get some though, so the mollies may be over eating (the exception is one skirt tetra that fights with the mollies for food and is huge compared to the rest, maybe it has dropsy too but it has been huge and seemed fine for a while). 


I read that treating water has little effect on dropsy. I'll do it anyway but I want to take other measures first. I already have antibiotics that work with dropsy so I am going to mix up some food with it in it (I was going to feed it to the bad fish but I'll feed it to them all). It is maracyn 2. I'll have to search around for how much to use but if anyone knows please let me know. I have an emperor aquatics 25 watt uv sterilizer (new, not used yet). From what I can tell, it should be barely big enough to kill disease in the 55 gal. I still need to get fittings and hoses to use it (I already have suitable pumps). After a day or two on antibiotic food and with the uv running, I will dose the water with the antibiotics. 

Does that sound like a good plan?


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