# What else should I get to improve my tank



## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

Hello guys, I just wanted your opinions on how I can make my tank better. It could be any suggestion, from more fish (or less fish) or filtration upgrades. I have issues with my artificial plants turning brown, and I also want to improve filtration but they're so many products, I just dont know what to get. Here's what I got. 

-55 gal tank (traditional rectangle shape)
-Emperor 400 with dual biowheel power filter (hanging type filtration)
I use the carbon cartrige pads and I also cut a piece of media from the PURA filtration pad.
-A little filter bag of AMMO-Carb 
-6 inch bubbler wand 

Fish Stock
-one 3.5 inch Convict Cichlid
-two 2.5 inch Red Devil Cichlid
-two 1.5 inch Firemouth 
-two 1.5 inch Salvini 
-one 3 inch Crayfish & two 1.5 inch Crayfish

Any suggestions would be very appreciated, I love my fish tank and I just want to make my fish happier.


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## ElChef194 (Dec 25, 2011)

are ur fake plants silk or plastic? my plastic plants develop algae growth on them. next time you get to your LFS, pick up a dozen or so ghost shrimp, they will clean up some of that algae and feed your cichlids and crawfish. if that is a no go, then i put mine in a bucket of hot *** water and agitate them till the algae comes off. 

it also wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in some sort of algae busting fish. ottos are too small and will become food for your fish and common plecos get to big to be effective in my opinion. petco carries albino plecos that max out at 5 inches. however they are sold very small (no more than an inch long). i have one and she is awesome. i never have algae issues in that tank. my other tank has a clown pleco and he does a good job but produces as much waste as he cleans up. i hear bristlenose plecos are a good algae buster, they also stay relatively small, like 5 inches.

also, it may or may not work in your tank, but a gourami is a good grazer. my dwarf will eat at the algae growing on his plants.


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## Laurencia7 (May 19, 2012)

Gourami's are *Labyrinth fish, and tend to not get along with cichlids. They can be an aggressive breed (cichlids not gouramis) I had a gorgeous gourami in my tank with two angels and they bit a hole in his side and he died. 

If the algae is just on your plants, take them out and rinse them. A diluted mix of water and white vinegar works for me. Or use an old toothbrush to rub the stuff off. If they are silk, I would replace them. My silk plants were horrible.

If the algae is all over, I suggest my buddies the siamese algae eaters. Otos can get eaten and poison the fish who ate them, they have barbs on their bodies. Other eaters just don't eat. SAEs are seasonal (some stores stock them as Flying Foxes) they also are hard to get genuine ones, but soooooo worth it. They are quiet, hard workers, with great personalities. 

Here are some links:
Identifying the Siamese Algae Eater - YouTube
Siamese Algae Eaters + False Siamensis HD Video - YouTube
Identifying the Siamese Algae Eater

Also, get a meds cabinet started, expensive but worth it. Then you can have meds on hand for emergencies in your tank. (Fungus cure, Ich, etc)
How long has the tank been set up?

If you do get the SAEs, make sure they others don't eat them. They can grow to 5 inches, but are sold as babies at around 1 inch. They grow in months, but your cichlids sound large, and depending on their behavior they might be mean.

Good luck, and if you need more advice just ask.


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## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks guys! Most of my plants are plastic, I do however have one that is silk (pain in da ***) I usually do a good job cleaning them with a toothbrush and hot water. I was wondering if one of those UV LIGHT type of lights can eliminate that problem or at least reduce it. 
How about a filtration system for this 55 gal tank and live stock? any suggestions there?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Gouramis aren't cichlids they are of the same family as bettas a labrynth fish.


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## ElChef194 (Dec 25, 2011)

susankat said:


> Gouramis aren't cichlids they are of the same family as bettas a labrynth fish.


yea i was pretty sure they were. angels are in the cichlidae fam though.


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## Laurencia7 (May 19, 2012)

susankat said:


> Gouramis aren't cichlids they are of the same family as bettas a labrynth fish.


Sorry :betta: they sure do look like them. Point being they don't get along with angel fish, In my Exp.


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## ElChef194 (Dec 25, 2011)

growing up my parents tank was a 55 gal angel and gourami tank.

i don't see why, if your tank is big enough with several defined territories, you cant house a couple of gouramis with a couple of cichlids. gouramis are top to middle dwellers and prefer overhead coverage, whereas most cichlids are bottom or cave dwellers.

both species would have to be added simultaneously and while very small so territories are established early on in the tank and fights are reduced. 

other than that, a flaw i see is the need of plants for your gourami. most cichlids don't work well with em.


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## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

Cool. Now going back to my original question. Being that I have:
-55 gal tank (traditional rectangle shape)
-Emperor 400 with dual biowheel power filter (hanging type filtration)
I use the carbon cartrige pads and I also cut a piece of media from the PURA filtration pad.
-A little filter bag of AMMO-Carb 
-6 inch bubbler wand 

Fish Stock
-one 3.5 inch Convict Cichlid
-two 2.5 inch Red Devil Cichlid
-two 1.5 inch Firemouth 
-two 1.5 inch Salvini 
-one 3 inch Crayfish & two 1.5 inch Crayfish

Any more suggestions that would either enhance my filtration or any additional fish that can be added. How about that UV Light that reduces algea? Does that work?


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

Laurencia7 said:


> Sorry :betta: they sure do look like them. Point being they don't get along with angel fish.


There may be instances of this, but it is not common. In every semi-aggressive tank I have had, I have chosen Gouramis and Angels as my top swimmers. If they live together from the time they are young, they do well together. They also get about the same size (roughly 6"). I assume what might have happened in your instance was having two Angels to one Gourami. Once they group up, they will assume they have free reign of the upper water and pick on any fish in their "zone" who they deem to be easy to pick on. However, if you have one Angel to every Gourami (for instance, if you had a mated pair of Gouramis in there with the two Angels) they will respect each other and leave each other alone. I've successfully raised Angels and Gouramis together in several tanks. In my 75 gallon, I have a Veiled Angel and an Opaline Gourami and I frequently see them swimming together.

Also, not all cichlids are overly aggressive. Cichlids such as Angels, Apistogrammas and Blood Parrots are considered semi-aggressive and will do fine with other fish as long as they aren't small enough to be easily eaten. And most dwarf cichlids are considered by and large to be "peaceful" and can even do well in community tanks.


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

Jonny, I'd suggest adding another Bio-Wheel. I swear by them and have two 400's on my 75. Adding a 280 or another 400 may help with your fake plant issue. It would also be possible to switch them out for real plants (maybe keep them in a smaller tank and let them grow a bit first, or buy them large) and plant them well into the substrate in small (miniature terra cotta pots work well) pots to save them from your cichlids. While Three Spot Gouramis do well in semi-aggressive and certain community set-ups, they could easily be tortured to death in your tank once your cichlids grow to adult size.

A great option would be a Kissing Gourami. They graze the same as Three Spot and Dwarf Gouramis, can grow up to 12" (in pristine conditions, but usually top out around 10") and are semi-aggressive, but the right temperament to hold their own in your tank. I have seen many people successfully keep Kissing Gouramis with the more aggressive cichlids.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

I have the emperor 400 as well and love it, I dont use the carbon anymore, replacement media cartridges cost just too much, I go to Walmart get quilt batting for $5 dollars for a huge bag, just cut it to size for the media holders, then i took the gray carbon holders that come with it and filled them with ceramic media for extra bios.
can you be more specific about your algae? maybe post a pic. ? does it grow everywhere? I use a bleach solution 19 parts water to 1 part bleach in a bucket soak plants for a few hours then rinse very well and soak in water with declorinator in it, this gets the plants and decorations clean, but try to figure out why your algae is growing and nip it in the bud.


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## Laurencia7 (May 19, 2012)

Tomorrowland said:


> There may be instances of this, but it is not common. In every semi-aggressive tank I have had, I have chosen Gouramis and Angels as my top swimmers. If they live together from the time they are young, they do well together. They also get about the same size (roughly 6"). I assume what might have happened in your instance was having two Angels to one Gourami. Once they group up, they will assume they have free reign of the upper water and pick on any fish in their "zone" who they deem to be easy to pick on. However, if you have one Angel to every Gourami (for instance, if you had a mated pair of Gouramis in there with the two Angels) they will respect each other and leave each other alone. I've successfully raised Angels and Gouramis together in several tanks. In my 75 gallon, I have a Veiled Angel and an Opaline Gourami and I frequently see them swimming together.
> 
> Also, not all cichlids are overly aggressive. Cichlids such as Angels, Apistogrammas and Blood Parrots are considered semi-aggressive and will do fine with other fish as long as they aren't small enough to be easily eaten. And most dwarf cichlids are considered by and large to be "peaceful" and can even do well in community tanks.


Yes, that is it exactly. I had larger Angelfish and one Gourami because I didn't want to overstock. He was smaller, and only lasted 3 days in the tank. I just remb being very upset with the angels and never liking them since. Glad to know how I can avoid that. They also picked off my neons one by one, and I wasn't told back then they ate little fish. Live and Learn. Glad to know they can get along. 

My mother had cichlids when she was younger, and all I ever heard was that hers ate and attacked most of her other fish. Good to know they aren't all bad.


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## Laurencia7 (May 19, 2012)

Jonny...I just fought an algae issue. Mine was caused by too much direct light and higher NO3 levels. I removed most off the tank, but my plants are still covered. Nothing but hot water on the plastic plants and a teaspoon of diluted white vinegar works for me. But it's just MO.
Water changes cleared most of the issues too.


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## mestar (Nov 17, 2011)

Jonny said:


> Any more suggestions that would either enhance my filtration or any additional fish that can be added. How about that UV Light that reduces algea? Does that work?


I had a real problem with green water in my fry tank. The green algae water was so bad I cound not see to the back of the tank. I ended up buying a uv sterilizer and in a few days my tank was clear. I could see it get clearer and clearer each day. Another plus to the uv is that it also kills off a lot of bad bacteria and diseases. I like it a lot. But they can be expensive.


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## Dafo (Aug 9, 2010)

Hi.

Definitely agree with Laurencia7 - the most and the only really efficient way to successfully solve the algae problem is regular water changes every week or two by about 25-30% or better, making water testing and make a water change every time the NO3 level rises over 20mg/L. There are actually several reasons for algae growth so best way is to begin with water parameters. It is good to not overfeed fishes (this helps to rise NO3), to maybe shorten the time of lighting (don't know what schedule you have now but in cases of severe problem you should turn lights off for few days). Filtration usually doesn't play such a big role but it is important that it has not just mechanical but also biological filtration and when cleaning it make sure you don't clean all the material at the same time,.... It would help a lot if you would post the water param's.
And about algae eating fish- they are usually not efficient when algae growth is clearly visible but are in assistance to prevent the growth so putting new fishes in your tank at that moment would not help until you solve the parameters issue. And also not all algaes are eaten by algae eaters so without more precise data on which algae do you have there is no point in advising about organisms.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Get rid of the bag of zeolite (ammo-carb) and if you still want to use the bag, fill it with biomax pellets and put it back in. Zeolite is like carbon...only good for a very short period.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

Jonny said:


> Cool. Now going back to my original question. Being that I have:
> -55 gal tank (traditional rectangle shape)
> -Emperor 400 with dual biowheel power filter (hanging type filtration)
> I use the carbon cartrige pads and I also cut a piece of media from the PURA filtration pad.
> ...


get rid of all the carbon and replace with a good quality bio media for a start, the carbon only lasts so long and is generally used for removing meds. id get ehiem media.

id also get a pleco to get rid of the algea on your plants. i got a new tank which the guy clearly never cleaned and in a day my pleco had cleaned all the glass then the next day all the plants and ornaments were spotless!!!!!! saves messing about with lighting and washing the plants all the time, plus there really cool to watch. remember tho he will need supplimenting with algea wafers.

blue eyed cichlid are really pretty too and can go with the fish you have.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

re this cichlid and gourami debate....i had 3 gouramis with malawis and they never got picked on..they all grew up togeather so dont know if that played a part in it. i only got rid of them to make room for more malawis.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

I use Bristlenose plecos and nirite snails for my algae control, I s your tank getting any direct sunlight? how long do you keep the lights on"?


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## Laurencia7 (May 19, 2012)

Dafo said:


> Hi.
> 
> Definitely agree with Laurencia7 - the most and the only really efficient way to successfully solve the algae problem is regular water changes every week or two by about 25-30% or better, making water testing and make a water change every time the NO3 level rises over 20mg/L. There are actually several reasons for algae growth so best way is to begin with water parameters. It is good to not overfeed fishes (this helps to rise NO3), to maybe shorten the time of lighting (don't know what schedule you have now but in cases of severe problem you should turn lights off for few days). Filtration usually doesn't play such a big role but it is important that it has not just mechanical but also biological filtration and when cleaning it make sure you don't clean all the material at the same time,.... It would help a lot if you would post the water param's.
> And about algae eating fish- they are usually not efficient when algae growth is clearly visible but are in assistance to prevent the growth so putting new fishes in your tank at that moment would not help until you solve the parameters issue. And also not all algaes are eaten by algae eaters so without more precise data on which algae do you have there is no point in advising about organisms.


Exactly, I failed to mention that any algae eater is not a cure all..and should only be added after the issue is resolved and only if you have the room. Most cause just as much bio waste and are a prevention method for other outbreaks, but do not cure the tank.

The only thing that worked for me was a vac and water change. My eaters help with small areas, but they are just helpers not fixers.

IF u have the room for a pleco, be sure to get one that doesn't grow too large. Many can grow to massive sizes. But be sure you have the room, and resolve this issue before adding any new fish.


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

Dafo said:


> Hi.
> 
> Definitely agree with Laurencia7 - the most and the only really efficient way to successfully solve the algae problem is regular water changes every week or two by about 25-30% or better, making water testing and make a water change every time the NO3 level rises over 20mg/L. There are actually several reasons for algae growth so best way is to begin with water parameters. It is good to not overfeed fishes (this helps to rise NO3), to maybe shorten the time of lighting (don't know what schedule you have now but in cases of severe problem you should turn lights off for few days). Filtration usually doesn't play such a big role but it is important that it has not just mechanical but also biological filtration and when cleaning it make sure you don't clean all the material at the same time,.... It would help a lot if you would post the water param's.
> And about algae eating fish- they are usually not efficient when algae growth is clearly visible but are in assistance to prevent the growth so putting new fishes in your tank at that moment would not help until you solve the parameters issue. And also not all algaes are eaten by algae eaters so without more precise data on which algae do you have there is no point in advising about organisms.


From OP's description, I wasn't sure if it was algae. If it was a build-up of organic wastes, which I kind of assumed, an extra filter could have helped. Water changes are definitely most important. Thanks so much for your input, that was a very informative post.


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

Laurencia7 said:


> Exactly, I failed to mention that any algae eater is not a cure all..and should only be added after the issue is resolved and only if you have the room. Most cause just as much bio waste and are a prevention method for other outbreaks, but do not cure the tank.
> 
> They only thing that worked for me was a vac and water change. My eaters help with small areas, but they are just helpers not fixers.
> 
> IF u have the room for a pleco, be sure to get one that doesn't grow too large. Many can grow to massive sizes. But be sure you have the room, and resolve this issue before adding any new fish.


Agree. Most plecos outside of the common or Trinidad pleco grow to a reasonable size (Gold Nuggets top out at 6", Rio ****** at 4", Bushynoses at 3", etc). With the adult size of OP's fish taken into account (namely the Red Devil who can grow to be a foot long), the added bioload of any algae eater large enough to not be eaten might be a bit too much.  It might just be wise to do some good sized water changes (50%) weekly and to kill off the algae manually.


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## Dafo (Aug 9, 2010)

Hi again!

Nice to hear it helped you in any way. If it is as you assumed then the problem is much more easier to solve, anyhow be patient when you are adding new filter to correctly set the way of out coming water flow. And sure- choose good filter material that is not just mechanical but also biological. It is another thing that is very important- when buying and adding new filter pick some of material from the old (cycled) filter and put it into new one- this will shorten time of cycling and prevent some possible issues of NO2 forming from wastes in uncycled filter.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The most effective way to control algae is through light management. If you need help visualizing that just turn off the light for a few days and you'll see that most of your algae is dead. Water changes help to reduce nutrient levels, but if the light is left on too long you will still have no problem growing algae. Algae is a single cell organism that requires very, very little to survive, start, or grow. Not saying don't do water changes. They are needed weekly in at least the 30% range. If you have an algae problem try reducing the amount of time your light is on for and go from there.


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## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow, thanks everyone for your replies. I've done a good water change (50%) and done a manual scrubbing of all my plastic plants. I always cut a big chunk of the old filter to keep the bio-filtration going. I guess would have to be more consistent with my water changes, I think thats what was going on. The algea was of a brownish-black color on the plants. Had a very thin layer on the glass that I clean with magnetic cleaning pads. I'm concerned about putting plecos, being mostly bottom dwellers, they make easy targets for my 3 crayfish. I may get an additional Emperor filter as previously suggested (a 250 or so,...guess it can hurt). 

Now as far as media.....should I NOT buy the recommended media from Emperor and instead replace it with what other brand?


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Dr Foster and Smith carry a cheaper version of the carbon filled media cartridges if your so inclined, thats where I used to order mine from, then while back someone here gave me the idea to just use quilt batting from walmart and ditch the carbon altogether, this method is the cheapest you can find


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## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

hanky said:


> Dr Foster and Smith carry a cheaper version of the carbon filled media cartridges if your so inclined, thats where I used to order mine from, then while back someone here gave me the idea to just use quilt batting from walmart and ditch the carbon altogether, this method is the cheapest you can find


Hmm, quilt batting? where is that located in Walmart? Is it by the linens and sewing stuff? 

Someone mentioned ceramic media, hows that help with filtration? Any other media that can help?


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

yep batting is in the sewing aisle, comes in a bag, ceramic media will give extra surface for good bios to grow on thus increasing bio filtration. IMO and many others the carbon is only good for removing meds and is not effective for very long anyways


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

hanky said:


> yep batting is in the sewing aisle, comes in a bag, ceramic media will give extra surface for good bios to grow on thus increasing bio filtration. IMO and many others the carbon is only good for removing meds and is not effective for very long anyways


So true. On both my Emperor 400's I only run one of the stock cartridges out of all four slots. I fill two with media cases holding Purigen from SeaChem and one with polyfiber that I switch out weekly.

I'm interested in trying the quilt batting. Sounds like it might be similar to polyfiber?


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## Jonny (Feb 20, 2012)

Tomorrowland said:


> So true. On both my Emperor 400's I only run one of the stock cartridges out of all four slots. I fill two with media cases holding Purigen from SeaChem and one with polyfiber that I switch out weekly.
> 
> I'm interested in trying the quilt batting. Sounds like it might be similar to polyfiber?


Isn't Purigen a powder? how to you use that on a Emperor? 

How about your polyfiber or quilt batting...Do you use the gray cartriges that came with the Emperor and stuff it with the polyfiber?


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