# Weird Growth



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

There is some kind of growth growing in my tank. Growth dosen't accuratly describe it. The more accurate description of it is dust. I recently turned my non planted tank into a planted tank. I added florite then waited for the water to clear. I had maybe 1 cory and 1 convict ciclid. I gave the convict away then started to add angle fish. I started with 4. then i moved up to 6. Other things in the tank: 2 bala sharks, 2 corys, 3 neon tetras, 2 rapheal catfish and a female guppy with some fry. Well my angels keep dying. i'd say i've gone through 10 - 12 including the 3 i have left in the tank, 1 is not eating now and i've noticed that he has stuff hanging off of him. Kind of looks like the growth on the plants and the decor. However i did not notice this on the others that have died. Then i noticed that he has his mouth open and some of this growth is coming in and out of his mouth like hes breathing. Firsh i though it was where i was getting them(petsmart/petstore in town/petco). Got more else where, they died too. Then i thought it was the fact that i didnt have a heater. I added a heater and set the temp to 80F. More angle fish died. So then i thought that i was changing to much water. So i stoped the 50% water changes and started just 20% now i've noticed stuff on the fish i mentioned earlier. The tank is cycled, nitrates have stayed low, no nitrites or ammonia. The water is very hard. The PH from the water that comes out of the tap is high (7.6) but in the tank its low (6.4) After this one thats about to die, dies the 2 left in there are ones from probably the first batch or 2 that ive bought. So ive had 2 stick through everything. I do have different types of angle fish. And the 2 that are alive are of the same type. The ones that keep dieing are the ones with the long "striggy" dorsal and pelvic fins but i have had some of the other type die as well. And the ones that have died appeared to have died from the swim bladder disorder. I have some Meadel medication im about to add. Someone please help my angles.


----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

The tank is 40 gallons by the way and the plants are not getting enough light.


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

The Balas will get too large for that size tank (is it a 40 tall or long) and are very skittish and that might be causeing your angels problems, I would not have more than 4 angels if its a 40 long and 2 if its a tall, how is it your PH is dropping in the tank, make sure you let your water age untill the PH stabilizes before doing your water change, are the rest of your fish doing well.


----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

the rest of my fish are doing fine. I plan on getting a 75 gallon soon. I know it may be cramped when they get bigger but they are all little at the moment. The angles i get are about the size of a 50 cent piece.


----------



## djrichie (May 15, 2008)

can you post amy pictures of this......


----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)




----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

I took the plants out so i had to put them back in. They've only been out for a few hours. You probably wont be able to see the stuff thats hanging off of him. Its sort of translucent but i would bet money that its the same stuff thats on the plants, and it is mainly on the plants.


----------



## djrichie (May 15, 2008)

Ok thats interesting.....Can you list you water perameters/// PH NItrate, ect.

I going to go thur some books and do alittle research on the fish because it looks sick cloudy eys fins look matted together.


----------



## djrichie (May 15, 2008)

I think you have a two problems here. I think what your seeing on your plants is rotting plant leaves,you may not be selecting plants that you have the lighting for, so in effect you have alot of debris free froating and its just settling on the the fine plant. This in trun has cause your water quality (WQ) to fall below exceptabley for the fish. A 50% water change (WC) is way to much, if your doing schedule weekly WC's. You should be doing a weekly WC of 20% while rotating the gravel vacuming, into 4 sections a new section each week. With all the nutrinates you have in the water from the substrate and the high tempeture your runnning the tank at, you seid you are running at 80F back it of to 78F, you have accidently created Poor Water Quailty. This in turn has caused you fish to get sick. To correct the problem of water quality you should replace the floss in your filter start doing a scheduled 20% WC. The plants that are effected remove. I will need to know if you are using CO2 an the wattage of you light fiture and the sizes.


After looking up and going by the pictures of the fish and the symptoms you listed. It looks to me as a case of Cotton Wool Disease (Flexibacter columnaris). I don't see the traditional look of it, but you seid you can see tuffs of it moving while the fish is breathing,

Symptoms: 

Wounds
Faded Colours
Clamped Fins
Loss of Appetite
Loss of Equilibrium
Cloudy Eyes
Rubbing on Objects
Cotton Tufts
Damaged Fins
Patches 

While this disease look like a fungus attack, it is actually a bacteria infection. As with most common diseases, false fungus is caused by stress in the living environment of the fish and/or poor water quaity.

In the long term form (chronic form), they appear as light grey markings on the fish., lips of the fish or inside the fish's mouth. These markings then become fluffy and look like cotton wool, therefore making people think they are fungus. This false fungus has a more coarse and grainy look, and they are more gray than true fungus. As this false fungus develops, the skin appears more and more of these ulcers. The places that get affected is usually the mouth and gills because they are more vulnerable but it can infect anywhere.

There is another form in which this occus, and in this form the disease strikes hard and fast. There is no external symptoms and the affected fish can appear listless and die just a few days later. A post motem examination is the only way to discover this infection.

Both of the above forms of fungus are caused by the same bacteria called Flexibacter Columnaris, which is why this disease is also called Columnaris Disease.

Furanace (available in FURAN brand medications) is the only truly effective treatment for both internal and external symptoms of columnaris. Other medications that are effective externally include oxytetracycline, and sulfamerazine administered as long term aquaria treatments.Dipping treatments include copper sulfate,oxolinic acid and potassium permanganate although these will only be effective at the early stages of infection. The lack of treatments able to treat the condition internally are one of the reasons so many keepers fail in attempting to beat this problem, suffering repeated bouts of fluffy grows, and often eventual debilitation and death of the fish even when external symptoms have subsided.Again it is worth reiterating that only furan treats this condition internally as well as externally.

Now remeber I just taking the info that is presented to me, in the form of you discription and some pictures and this is just an educated guess from that information.


----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

PH - 6.4
Nitrate - 5.0ppm
Ammonia - 0.0ppm
Nitrite - 0.0ppm

Here are some pictures of my other fish that have outlived all the others.


























































About the one that has is black and gold - His dorsal fin looked like that when i got him and has slowly been growing back. Im pretty sure i got him and the gold one from the petshop in town and they were one of the first.


----------



## desolatedelusion (Jul 14, 2008)

Well im not sure if its rotting plant leaves, it looks more like a dusk that collects on them. I did have a plant at the bottom of the tank that didnt do well and the leaves started to look translucent. I already removed that one several days ago and have now just decided to take all the plants out and abandon the planted tank idea in this tank because it is a tall tank and tall tanks are useless for planted ones. I've already decided to start just a 20% water change instead of 50, i know that fish are sensitive to change and the PH from the tap was way different from the PH in the tank. Im not sure of the wattage of the light but i know its old and i know its for a coral reef tank. I bought the whole setup from someone and thats just what came with it. I've had a hard to trying to fight a high enough wattage light so thats why i havn't replaced that. Try looking for a compact florescent replacement fixture for an 18in hood. And i am not adding any additional CO2 because i didnt really want it to be a full blown planted tank, i just wanted a few plants to help keep the water quality up and the fish happy. Why would this only attack the certain ones and not the ones that are doing good? Do vets do examinations on dead fish and do they cost an arm and a leg? When you say change the filter floss do you mean change the cartridge all together? The black one in the pictures is not going to make it through the night and while i was in there looking at him a minute ago i didn't notice anything attached to him like before. I've had this sort of problem before and it got so bad that i had to tear the whole tank down, throw away the gravel and start all over. But i started seeing worms crawling up the glass at night, big ones... it was scary. Not sure if its the same thing or not. I have another 10 gallon in another room and i cant seem to keep a beta alive in or various other fish (clown pleco, 3 betas, and a cory have been lost to that one) but the guppies in the tank seem to be doing great and have been for a good year. One beta that i fished out did have those cotton wool growths on him like you mentioned before. I'll deffinately look into some cotton wool medication and ill try and make my way over to the vet with my soon to be dead fish in the morning, along with the plants. Maybe ill see if theres somewhere around here that can do a test on my water.


----------



## djrichie (May 15, 2008)

If you want plants in the tank, there are alot of lowlight plants you can put in the tank. To see what wattage of light you have the bulb will have it printed on it. Thw worms you youa re seeing are a sign of over feeding and poor water quailty. You should call any vet and see if the look at fish, but I personally don't know any or heard of any. Just being in the hobby so long, I know people who if I needed I could ship the fish to them and they would look at for me. 

Whne I say replace the floss I assumed you had a HOB filter, I don't recall if you mentioned the filter and size of the filter and tank. 

As I stated before my personal feeling is that you WQ is not good and that is causing the sick fish.


----------



## lagniappe (Jan 11, 2008)

I see what appears to be plenaria or the like in there along with a lot of bacterial sludge. Your angels may have had Heximita. I would feed them with a medicated food containing metranidazol. If they won't eat, you can medicate the water with Tank buddies. That's the easiest cure .
Or, you could do nothing at all in those regards and just improve the tank conditions.
Firstly, remove all the carbon!!!! Carbon = Bad for angels. Second, do 20% water changes every day or ,at least, when you feel like it. At least every other day , for a while , would be the minimum.
Increase the temp. to 85 degrees and keep it there for at least a week.( this will be bad for your plants so you may want to put them in a separate tank,or let them tough it out.)


----------

