# y do my plecos die?



## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

so...waffers, shrimp pellets, peas, zuchinni. thats the diet I provide. now why do my plecos not last more then 1- 2 months. the only thing im missing would be wood for rasping on. is it that important that with out it plecos die? all water parameters are normal 0 amonia 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. pH is still low but ive accepted that. 6.2 to 6.4 range. please help. maybe im just not meant to have one.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Your pH isn't too low for plecos; I've found that most fish adapt well to the 6.5-7.5 range provided they're healthy and not stressed out.

In regards to the wood, yes, they do need it. Rasping away at it serves two purposes: 1) It provides them with a source of food via the algae and and critters living inside the wood fibers, and 2) it provides them with necessary fiber in their bowels. Get yourself some wood (malaysian driftwood works wonders) and I'm willing to bet that, with your other care, you'll be able to keep them alive.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

agreed, ph probably too low. Also, you need good oxygen levels in your tank. so get some air bubblers if you dont have them. If you need to bring up your ph, you can do so by adding small amounts of sodium bicarbonate or calcium bicarbonate to your tank. Do so slowly so you dont shock your fish. About 0.2-0.5 ph per day. Seachem also sells some good stuff for ph but stay away from the neutral regulator because it contains phosphorus which is bad for ocean reefs.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Most plecos like a ph of 6.0-7.0 and soft water (Encyclopedia of Aquarium & PondFish, 2008). Make sure they have clean water and plenty of Algae pellets. Don't keep them with agressive fish. They say they turn into bullies when they get bigger but I haven't experienced this. I have several plecos and they thrive in tanks with lots of plants and algae.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

phys said:


> agreed, ph probably too low. Also, you need good oxygen levels in your tank. so get some air bubblers if you dont have them. If you need to bring up your ph, you can do so by adding small amounts of sodium bicarbonate or calcium bicarbonate to your tank. Do so slowly so you dont shock your fish. About 0.2-0.5 ph per day. Seachem also sells some good stuff for ph but stay away from the neutral regulator because it contains phosphorus which is bad for ocean reefs.


His pH is not too low. Please don't prescribe chemical dosing for someone's tank unless it's absolutely necessary, as this can cause a whole host of chemistry issues if it's not done right. His filter likely provides enough gas exchange for his aquarium as well; adding in a bubbler won't do him much good, and isn't going to affect his ability to keep plecos alive.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

Wow, you're out to prove everything wrong arent you. Did you not read the part where i said do it slowly? And how i said "if you need to". These are things i have seen others have problems with and i was passing the information on. I only suggested that these are issues and possible ways to fix a problem. So before you go off and say everything is wrong in every way and you are the only person people should listen to, try suggesting new things instead of saying i'm wrong.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

phys said:


> Wow, you're out to prove everything wrong arent you. Did you not read the part where i said do it slowly? And how i said "if you need to". These are things i have seen others have problems with and i was passing the information on. I only suggested that these are issues and possible ways to fix a problem. So before you go off and say everything is wrong in every way and you are the only person people should listen to, try suggesting new things instead of saying i'm wrong.


You did suggest that the ph was probably not a good value and suggested something be used to change it's value. The actual value of the ph is at fault very few times in situations where fish are affected. It is usually more the cause of how they were acclimated to the aqaurium or some other issue. Recommending that people change their ph value to better suit their fish (minus fish like Discus) IS bad advice, especially without trying to ascertain any other information.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

As i said.. a solution to a problem. Not necessarily needed to be followed. It could have been an issue. So in order for a person to have specific fish, then they would have to build an aquarium to match it. I suggested a solution to change the aquarium to suit the fish. Also, not needed but a suggestion. 

I agree, acclimation is a very important factor into sucessfully transporting a fish. But if the environment isnt suitable for the fish, then the acclimation will only go so far. 


So i guess my next suggestion would be, dont buy a fish if your tank will not support it. Sound better guys?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

phys said:


> As i said.. a solution to a problem. Not necessarily needed to be followed. It could have been an issue. So in order for a person to have specific fish, then they would have to build an aquarium to match it. I suggested a solution to change the aquarium to suit the fish. Also, not needed but a suggestion.
> 
> I agree, acclimation is a very important factor into sucessfully transporting a fish. But if the environment isnt suitable for the fish, then the acclimation will only go so far.
> 
> ...


The point is, this person's ph is NOT out of the value range needed to support the life of a Pleco. In fact, it's pretty close to the middle of the range. If you offer the route to change the ph, someone who may not know better will take your recommendation without being offered any other suggestions. If you are experienced at fish keeping at all (not saying you aren't), you would know that any time a person, even worse a new person, starts to do things to monkey around with the ph it is usually a combination for disaster.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

quite true jrman. Hopefully any person that would need to deal with a ph issue would look into how to do it properly before doing so. And this i shall state when making such a suggestion again. At times, there WILL be a neccessity to change some parameter in a tank so there will be a need to suggest such a thing, with the necessary warnings.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

hey dunno wanna kill your convos but my dead plecos would like to not be dead. so far I got add wood and possibly raise my pH even tho it is ok for fish(only if I wanna). dont wanna sound unhrateful but just started a new job and need a solution that matches a daily routine. which is 10hrs light feed once a day, water changes 1x a week 30%. btw 10g tank.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

Wood is necessary, they require it to aid their digestion. PH is fine. I have peppermint and common BN breeding (now both with fry) in PH of mid to low 6's ( i use rainwater in all my tanks), so i definately do not think its a PH issue.

How often and how much are you feeding? The more you pour into them the more they poop out and being they really are poop machines at the best of times they can quickly dirty a tank. The more you feed the more you need to do regular waterchanges. On my breeding BN i do twice weekly to weekly depending on amount of goop on tank base.

What size tank? How many plecos? What are your tank stats? Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte? What other fish are in with them?


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

Well, one thing is, the plecos will outgrow a 10 gallon. So if you get one, be sure to either upgrade your tank in the future or have a plan to resell or give them to someone with a bigger tank. Possibly also only try one pleco for now if you havent already. They may be starving for space and get too stressed if you have more than one in a 10g. Are you keen on keeping plecos? If not, you may try getting a clown pleco* or a reticulated loach. They only get to about 4" as full adults. They do require a good water flow and also some good oxygen in your tank but dont need aaaas much of a diet to survive as a pleco does, at least to my knowledge. But in either case, do some research to see whats missing. So far, as Alasse said, the plecos may require some wood. I also try to do a weekly water change when i can but it doesnt always end up being a weekly change. That's something else to try. 

Where do you get your plecos? Sometimes your sources may actually have some bad tanks, sick fish or bad stock come in. So something to ask while at the store is how long have they been in the tanks. If they've been there for a week or more, then they're probably going to survive a bit better than if they just arrived. This is something i've learned from getting some fish at petco. 

One other thing... how long have you had your tank running? do you know if its fully cycled? 

Hopefully things can get figured out.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

Defiantely do not get a clown loach for a 10gal tank, they need to be kept in groups and can get to 1ft in length. Way way too big for that sized tank sorry.

If it is a 10gal i would not put a pleco in there, bristlenose which are one of the smaller types can reach 15cm in length, and as a said prior they really are poop machines. They make more mess than they clean up really *L*


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

good catch alasse, i said loach, i should have said clown pleco:Clown pleco, Panaque maccus Profile, with care, maintenance requirements and breeding information for your tropical fish Alasse is correct in saying they poop alot. So maybe not for your tank. 

Also, when i wrote "reticulated loach" i should specify further as meaning The Reticulated Hillstream Loach:Sewellia lineolata: The Reticulated Hillstream Loach; Easy to Spawn or a Whole Lot of Luck — Loaches Online
Sewellia lineolata — Loaches Online
This guy may be a bit better for your tank than the plecos. Check it out further before buying though.

possibly a cory catfish: Catfish - Corydoradinae [Corydoras Catfish] These are good for cleaning up after other fish (leftover food, from what i've been told) so possibly one of them of the right sub-species. The webpage has a good list of them so look through there.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Clown plecos top out at 5-6", and aren't really suitable for a 10g aquarium. They don't eat algae, and their constant rasping away at and ingesting driftwood causes a god-awful mess, and in a 10g aquarium that can cause some huge issues.

The Hillstream loach would fit in there (barely), but they really enjoy having a lot of water flow, otherwise their health isn't quite what it could be. They really shine in long tanks, where you can create a powerful, linear flow from one end of the aquarium to the other.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

at this point, i'm wondering if you're wanting plecos for their algae cleaning or because you like them. If you're in them for the algae cleaning, there are other routes you can take, shrimp and snails work well also. And since its a small tank, several shrimp could be sufficiant as long as you keep your nitrates down and your gravel maintained.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Amano shrimp work well for algae control in a small aquarium like a 10g, and they're not too difficult to keep.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

it was one bristle nose in my 10g that was just upgraded to a 55 like 50min ago. all amonia nitrites and nitrates wrre fine 0,0, 20.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

phys said:


> Well, one thing is, the plecos will outgrow a 10 gallon. So if you get one, be sure to either upgrade your tank in the future or have a plan to resell or give them to someone with a bigger tank. Possibly also only try one pleco for now if you havent already. They may be starving for space and get too stressed if you have more than one in a 10g. Are you keen on keeping plecos? If not, you may try getting a clown pleco* or a reticulated loach. They only get to about 4" as full adults. They do require a good water flow and also some good oxygen in your tank but dont need aaaas much of a diet to survive as a pleco does, at least to my knowledge. But in either case, do some research to see whats missing. So far, as Alasse said, the plecos may require some wood. I also try to do a weekly water change when i can but it doesnt always end up being a weekly change. That's something else to try.
> 
> Where do you get your plecos? Sometimes your sources may actually have some bad tanks, sick fish or bad stock come in. So something to ask while at the store is how long have they been in the tanks. If they've been there for a week or more, then they're probably going to survive a bit better than if they just arrived. This is something i've learned from getting some fish at petco.
> 
> ...


so my plecos were in a 10 only till i got my 55 set up. First was a common pleco. He lasted about 2 weeks. Then about 3 months after that i got a bristle nose pleco. He lasted a month and a half. Today i set up my 55. moved in all my plants from my 2 10's. Sadly no plecos made it to enjoy the tank. They had a diet of waffers, sinking shrimp pellets, zuccinni, peas, flakes, algae. But so far none of them have done anything except stay attached to the sides. Now that i have my 55 im thinking a pleco would be a nice addition. I love the look of them. but i dont wanna keep murdering them. They(local mom n pop store) just got amazing stock of all kinda fish in for spring. and sure enough they got Bristle nose, common pleco, rubber lip(or nose) pleco. Still dont have any drift wood tho. 

My tank is planted with 5 wisteria plants, 1 clump java ferns about 4in tall, 3 bunches of vesuvious, 3 clumps java moss, and 2 other plants i picked up today that i have no idea what they are. I have a tetra whisper HOB rated for 60g and a fluval plus intank filter for current that is rated at a 12g. My lighting sucks right now cuz this was a craigslist steal of 2 55's, the tetra filter, stand and light for $60. My lighting is 38w on a t8 bulb. my goal is to get dual t5's on there. but money doesn't fall from the sky lately. 

Tank is inhabited by 2 angel fish, 3 neon tetra, 4 black neon tetra, 1 white skirt tetra, 1 male guppy, 7 Rosie red feeder fish that just wont get ate, and 1 blue crayfish (Capt'n Distructo). If the cray doesn't do well in the 55 he will get his 10 back. The feeder fish stole all his food in there so i hope he gets some food now. More space to drop him some grub. Anyway this will be an adventure for sure. I know i got off the topic of my plecos but this will help answer some questions i hope. My 10gs were running for 1yr & 7 months (community) and 3 months (cray tank) i used the filters and gravel from both tanks to set up my 55g. I will be doing water changes on Wednesdays and Saturdays.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

hope this new tank works out better for you and your plecos! Be sure to get everything you need before adding the plecos though. I've had the clown pleco in my tank for about 3 months now and its doing well. It'll come out in the "afternoon" (that's funny because afternoon for me and my tank is about midnight) and feeds through the night. He actully does eat a lot of algae off the plants and helps keep the leaves clean as well as gets up on the glass and goes around the substrate. They're cool lookin plecos too so if you want one that (as i have read and been told gets to 4" about) then it could work for you in the 55. The other plecos may still outgrow the 55 though.. it'll take a bit of time but they most likely will.


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