# Fish problems, need advice



## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi all, tank parameters are 7.4 pH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates, oxygen levels ok, regular weekly water changes and every couple days I use my eHeim filter to clear out some of the poop and old food.

I have several tanks. My 45 gal is the main problem. I have very few fish in there right now (I'm in the middle of downsizing to a 29 gal) - only 4 zebra danios, a good sized pleco, and 2 guppies. About three weeks ago I had a danio get sick with columnaris, at least that is what it looked like. I quarantined immediately and attempted to treat but in the end I just euthanized because nothing was working. 

Then I watched a male guppy get sick. Basically he started by laying on plants and I thought he was resting there. Then he started lying on the bottom of the tank for extended periods but would still go after the ladies and eat etc. I moved him to quarantine just the same, but he died a few days later. I never saw any type of spots or fungus or anything on him, he looked perfect except he was at the bottom of the tank and stopped eating just before he died. When I checked him after he died, his scales were sticking out but he wasn't puffed up like dropsy. Wierd.

Now my two female guppies are alternating between hovering at the surface or lying on the bottom. Their gills look swollen and red to me but they are albinos so its hard to tell. Last week I treated with Parasite Guard because a couple danios were very fat and had extremely long clear poops, so I thought maybe I was dealing with internal or external parasites. After that there was a lot of pooping going on with all the fish, and the bellies on the danios now look normal. 

I have been hesitant to add any strong antibiotics because of my biofilter, but today I just said that whatever is in there is killing everything and I have to do something. So I treated with tetracycline (on these boards I found out that it might be a bacterial gill issue and to treat it with tetracycline). I'm not sure what else to do.

I took my snail out and moved him to another tank. I am wondering what to do about my pleco who is doing ok right now but I know he is more sensitive to meds - what can I NOT use with him in the tank? (If I need another med).

Thanks for reading this long note. Hope I have been thorough in my explanations!

Niki


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

When you used the meds the first and second time did you remove your filter and keep it wet and fed while the meds were working on the tank? 

I'm not really sure what sort of advice to tell you about what could be causing the problem, if you want I can research it for you and try to figure it out but if I were you I would stop putting meds in the tank. Meds work by poisoning the problem parasite/fungus/whatever to death. Problem is it also poisons and kills your beneficial bacteria and poisons your fish. The general principle behind the meds is that they poison the parasite more then the fish but any fish that are already weak can be killed by the meds. 

There are usually ways to treat parasites without using meds but sometimes it can require some foresight. For example, there are some types of leaves that can help combat certain parasites but they can be hard to come by so if you had something like that in your tank then i would certainly be better if you had already had the leaves on hand. Ick can be treated by turning up the heat and adding some salt. All these things, of course, are much nicer for the fishies. If you want, I can try to figure out your problem and a natural cure for it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like possibly parasites. After treating numerous fish with this problem I have surmised that the success of the med is largely dependent on how quick you notice and treat. I still loose 1-2 fish a month to parasites but all of them have been with me for a while, with the exception of two 3-month old molly fry.

Have you ever treated the entire tank? The one they came out of? Also, make sure when you are medicating your fish in your hospital tank that you do about a 50% water change to get rid of the meds. Multiple treatments of different meds without changing the water can make your hospital tank a toxic mess and wipe a fish in muntes. Just something to keep in mind.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Ben, long time no talk to! I really appreciate your thoughts on the problem.

This is the first time that I have treated the entire 45 gal tank with parasite meds and tetracycline. Other than this time I have always treated the fish in the quarantine tank. I decided that I needed to try and kill off whatever is in there once and for all. I did do a big water change in between the treatments but there was no change in the sick guppies. I am preparing for a cycling, getting ready for lots of water changes and doses of Nite-Out. Ugh I hate cycling.

I believe that my biggest problem is my tank and filter. It is a 45 tall corner tank and the filter just isn't clearing the water the way I would like because there are too many corners and the way the water flows leaves a lot of stuff floating around. I think I need to go forward with my plans to downsize to a 29 gal standard height tank with double filters, and this will be easier to maintain and hopefully I will have happier fishies. I also want to go planted in the new tank (my fry tank is planted and I love it).

Congrats on your newest molly fry! My "Mama Blue" guppy gave birth yesterday to 40 new babies, everyone looks healthy and happy in that tank, so that is almost making up for my sadness about the others. Almost. *frown

Thanks again,


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Amie for your advice. No I didn't keep the filter separate, I know I will regret that later. Cycling is not something I look forward to! But my feeling was that I wasn't sure where the problem was, so I wanted to clean everything out with hopes of solving the problem and not having it come back.

Problem with raising the temp and adding salt is that the pleco won't be happy with the salt. A little as I understand it is ok but more than a little could put him at risk and I don't want to lose him. And I am pretty sure it isn't Ich in the tank, or at least it doesn't look like it.

As for the leaves idea, I have no idea about that. I doubt I would have time to get anything at this point anyway. I always like the idea of going medication-free, but in this case I just can't seem to solve it any other way. 

As for research, I checked over this site and also went on a few other pharm sites to try and determine what it is. Bacterial infections seemed possible along with the parasite idea. Any other thoughts are always appreciated!!

Thanks again!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I'd be very surprised if your tank tried to cycle...and even if it did it doesn't start all the way back to the beginning. You could possibly get some positive numbers on your readings but they should pass fairly quickly if you did.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Just wanted to give an update. Both my guppies pulled through after the tetracycline treatment, in fact within a day they were back swimming around and acting completely normal. Unfortunately after a few days one started sitting on the bottom again. All normal water parameters, just did a water change 3 days ago and they seemed fine other than a day of ammonia at .25 . I am treating again. Must be some type of bacterial infestation? Ben you were right in that it didn't completely filter, just a little blip. Thanks all, will keep you updated!


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