# gasping molly and other things



## squid liquor (Sep 29, 2010)

hey guys just wondering if anyone can give us a bit of advice on this..

the tank had been running pretty healthily for ages, previous problems had sorted themselves out (see my prev post) and everything was going swimmingly. unfortunatly one of the zebra dannios took a hit from a sucking loach and had a sore patch for a while but it seemed to be healing fine.

about 4 days ago though we needed to put another two fish in from another tank, two (female) fighting fish as the male we had put them with was overly agressive with them so we decided to seperate them.. thats not what this is about though, and tbh it may just be coincidence that it all happened at the same time.

within 5hrs of putting them in, one of our mollies started gasping at the surface, and she has been there for 2 days now. at the same time the dannio started to look a bit ill, and although he is swimming around fine, he looks swolen and has lost his stripes almost entirely. one of the ember tetras also has a white lump on its top lip. 

we straight away had the water tested. nitrate levels and ph were fine, amonia and nitrite were slightly above normal, presumably cause we had needed to add the two new fish so soon after the mollies (who instantly gave birth)

we straight away did a 20% Water change and treated for the amonia/nitrite levels. we have also started a 7day anti-fungle treatment which will need a 50% water change afterwards.

all of the other fish seem fine... the tetras seem a little more colourful than before, but we had that down to the tank finally getting ballanced after the emergency tank change we had to do.

any ideas what could be causing the current problems?


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currently have a 140l tank at 26c. with (lots of) live plants. ph stable, nitrate levels good, nitrite and amonia levels slightly up (before water change)
two corydorus, two dannios, 5 tetras, red tailed shark, flying fox, sucking loach, 7 mollies +some fry (numbers gradually diminishing) 2 female fighting fish.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

First question, you said the nitrites and ammonia were 'a little above normal'. What are you calling normal?? Cause those two number should both be at zero. 

Don't forget to remove any carbon from the filter, if possible, while treating the water.

Is that the only molly in the tank? Mollys seem to stress easy, IMO, so maybe she doesn't like the new tank mates.
Could your tank be past it's maximum capacity for fish? Gasping at the top of the tank is sometimes not enough oxygen or too much ammonia. 
What color is your substrate? Sometimes a lite colored substrate can cause fish to lose their colors. 
Me, personally, prefer not to treat water for ammonia and nitrite levels. I just do extra water changes. I just think it's safer then using things like AmmoLock and the like. I'm not sure which ones but some of those products do not remove the ammonia they just sort of neutralize it so it will still read when you test but it's not harmful so it would be harder to try to determine the 'harmful' ammonia in your tank from the 'not harmful'

Lump on lip sounds like it could be a parasite. But maybe the fish is just stressed too. Sometimes when they are stressed they have physical manifestations because of it. 

IMO, keep a close eye, do the fungal treatments, do the water changes and watch for any further developments with the fish for now and see where you are in a week when the treatment is finished.


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## probe1957 (Jul 2, 2010)

It is possible, although it doesn't seem very likely, that the addition of the two small fish overwhelmed your filter. Nevertheless, the symptoms you describe lead me to wonder if that is indeed what happened.

You really need to get your own LIQUID test kit. Having to take your water to have it tested is not the best option. Other than that, I have nothing to add to what Amie said.


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## squid liquor (Sep 29, 2010)

update:
the black mollie that was gasping has died, just found it at the bottom of the tank. on inspection she had silver gills, not sur if thats normal or not.

non of the other mollies seem to be affected at the moment. the fry are looking very red behind the gills, again, not sure if its always been like that. the mollies also seem to be doing very long white poos all the time.. not sure if that is anything of note.

what i meant by 'above normal' is slightly elevated. wwe cannot afford the water test kits ourselves as we are pretty skint at the moment, but our local petstore does free tests so i cant see why would ever need to buy them.

hopefully our water changes and fungle treatment will work, but have just noticed that another mollie has started gasping at the surface..


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## probe1957 (Jul 2, 2010)

squid liquor said:


> update:
> the black mollie that was gasping has died, <snipped>
> 
> hopefully our water changes and fungle treatment will work, but have just noticed that another mollie has started gasping at the surface..


It certainly is beginning to look like what you're doing just isn't working. I imagine you see it that way too and that's why you're here.



squid liquor said:


> what i meant by 'above normal' is slightly elevated.


The problem is, that really doesn't mean anything. Your readings need to be 0 for ammonia and nitrite. 5 ppm may be considered "slightly elevated" but will kill your fish. IOW, the experts here will need to know EXACTLY what your levels are for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph.

ETA: In the meantime, I am going to recommend doing a 50% water change. Be sure you treat your water with something to neutralize chlorine (Prime).


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## squid liquor (Sep 29, 2010)

we have been doing water changes since it happened.. getting through a shed load of chlouring fixer. the guy that did the testing said that a 20% water change should be sufficient to fix the amonia and nitrite levels. 

mollies seem to have retired from the surface for now. hopefully it will stay that way. is the long white poo normal for mollies? or do we need to start parasite treatment as well? 

we wwould like to get our own test kits but they seem to be horrendoously expensive and we are spending just about everything we can afford on the chlourine treatment, we already had some fungle treatment left from a while back.. we have to form another £8 out for some more soon as well..

thx for the help guys..


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Are you walking to the store to get the testing done there?? Cause if not then eventually your going to spend more in gas then the test kits cost. Also, at the store are they using test strips or a liquid test kit?? Most people on here (including me) will tell you to skip the strips because sometimes they are inaccurate. 

IMO, skip treating the water with the chlorine stuff and just leave it in the bucket 24 hours before putting it in your tank. I know that won't work in emergencies but it should work most of the time. 

No harm in doing anothe4r 10 to 20% water change even though the molly is not at the top right now. 

Sometimes white poop can be a dietary thing. Trying giving them a different food for a little while.

Some more details on your tank and stuff would be helpful: size and fish in the tank (both number and breed). Type and size of filter and type of substrate couldn't hurt either.

Not sure what color a mollys gills should be but I know red is not good, so I'm assuming silver would be better then then red anyway. 

I wouldn't treat for a parasite and fungal infection at the same time, IMO, in fact, if you think they might have both I'm not sure if I would treat for anything. I would want to research it a little bit more first., The ones with a parasite might have a weakened immune system and maybe the fungal treatments might do them more harm then the good it might do the ones with the fungus. Someone more experienced can give you some better advice on that then me. 

Also, in the meantime, I would skip feeding them for at least 2 days. Couldn't hurt and if the problem is ammonia then the lack of food will mean no extra ammonia being produced from left over food. When you start feeding again make sure it's VERY lightly.

Having some live plants in the aquarium can help with that. The tank that I have fry in have lots of live plants because I know I'm going to end up overfeeding them in an effort to ensure that the fry get some food so I got the live plants to help absorb the extra waste produced to make the tank more stable with this stuff going on.


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## squid liquor (Sep 29, 2010)

my initial post lists the fish we are keeping at the moment, there is now 1 less mollie though. using a fluval 2 filter i believe running with top aeroated output.

the petstore is only about a mile away so we walk it when we need to go to get tests done. 

substrate is mixed light 4-7mm gravel.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I might not have all the details right here but I see a couple of things. I think you have a 40 US gallon tank and the filter you have is rated for up to 24 gallons (they tend to be over rated so that would be more like a 15 gallons IMO). You need a better filter. I know you said cost is a problem but if you can I'd try to get a second hand canister filter. I see you have plants which helps. Some people factor plants into their filtering in a big way but that can get a little complicated with lighting, substrate type, growth rates etc so ask some one who understands better than me.

Also how long has this tank been set up for? When you changed to this tank, did you use the gravel from your old tank, and what about the filter? Your tank might still be cycling or your filter isn't enough to handle the waste from your fish. Either way my guess is the two extra fish were the last straw in a situation has been mounting for a while. That would also explain any other problems like lumps and sore spots as poor water quality makes fish vulnerable to fungus, parasites and bad bacteria.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

By the way letting water sit (I prefer 3 days to a week but 24hrs seems to work for some) removes chlorine but not all chemicals (chloramine i think it is that doesn't evaporate) so it all depends on what your water company treats with. If you phone them they can probably tell you what chemicals they use. If it is a choice of water changes or no water changes I think I'd risk it and let water sit 24hrs in your situation.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

two corydorus (2.8 each)
two dannios (2 each)
5 tetras (2 each)
red tailed shark(4.7)
flying fox (5.5)
sucking loach (6)
7 mollies (4 each)
2 female fighting fish(2 each)

The numbers in brackets are the general size that each fish will reach in inches when full grown. All measures are approximate as things like differing sub species of a species grow to different sizes and males and females can grow different but it's a general guideline. The general rule of thumb for a community tank like this one is no more then one inch of full grown fish per one gallon of water. Some will tell you to go even less though. Your total comes to 57.8. So generally, the amount of fish that you have in that tank should be housed in a 57 gallon tank at least. So I think it's a fair bet to say that the problems your having could very well be caused by too many fish in the tank.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Amie makes a good point. You seem to have a heavy fish load for the tank. If you were able rehome some fish it would help a lot with you keeping the tank balanced. I didn't work it out myself but by Amie's calculations that is going to keep being a problem for you. With a really good filter and regular 2x weekly water changes for example you might be okay it but it will make your life harder.

For now feed lightly and if you don't get a test kit yet see if you can get the actual numbers from the pet shop when they do the test and post it here.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

If the fish are still pretty young that might be why your starting to get these problems. Perhaps the tank has reached capacity now because of their growing. If that is the case the problem will get worse as they get bigger. 

Snail is right that with extra work you should be able to keep the tank nice and healthy but you will always run the risk of losing them. 

Your lucky to be so close to your store. I'm about 80 kilometers from my pet store!!


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Amie said:


> Not sure what color a mollys gills should be but I know red is not good, so I'm assuming silver would be better then then red anyway.
> 
> .


I was thinking when I read this that the gills were probably silver because the fish had died and no blood was present in the gills anymore. I could be way off though!


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