# interested in a new tank



## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

so i have a 10 gallon freshwater tank that im kind of bored of, im going to give it to a friend 

i want to buy a 50-60 gallon tank, and possibly salt water, but i want black sand

Where are good places to buy a tank with that size <300, and some advice for starting it up, ive only had one tank and ive had it for a year but i want more exotic and interesting fish

i will be putting a lot of money into this, so i would like to take really good care of my fish, best quality food, good lighting, as well as good plants

the only thing i really like for sure is eel type of fish like kuhli loaches, but i have been looking at small puffer fishes, right now i only have zebra danios and a redwag platty so i do not want these type of fish any more

personally i imagine myself having at least 1 larger fish, a school of small fish, and some nice bottom feeders. any suggestions based on my interests for a 50-60 gallon tank? i live in OC in case you guys can suggest a store


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## Elz7676 (Nov 9, 2011)

Have you considered cichlids?
Obviously not the bigger species like oscars in a 50-60g but maybe you could look into getting a malawi cichlid setup? I haven't had a tank big enough yet but I would one day love to have one myself, the malawi cichlids are always really pretty to look at.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Cheapest way to get a tank would be to get it off Craigslist. YOu could possibly get the whole set up for half the cost of just buying a brand new tand and stand.
Aquarium Substrate for Marine Aquariums: CaribSea Instant Aquarium Substrate Tahitian Moon
Saltwater Fish: Marine Aquarium Fish for Saltwater Aquariums


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

thanks for the quick replies, here are some things i forgot to mention

i dont need a stand it will be in my room, how loud will it be compared to my very loud 10 gallon, i would like it to be as silent as possible but i know it will be loud still

i would also like to get a air bubbler because well i want my fish to be happy lol

i am considering a big tank also because i hear you dont have to clean it as much, any idea how much less? i used to clean mine every 3 days, now its like once every 2 weeks and its still clean with no algae

to be honest i was very interested in cichilds at one point, but after my friend showed me his salt water tank, id like to get more exotic style fish, i was even looking at fish that cost 100 dollars, ofc i would not buy it all at once though. I first have to find a fish store to even consider all this because i dont feel safe buying fish online


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Dont' have to buy fish online, just showing you options, you were refering to fish that you wanted.
Tank won't be loud. ?? Why would it be loud?
You really don't want an air bubbler in the tank if your going salt water. This will give you salt creep like mad, and this is a pain in the butt.
#1-Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhikers on Live Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way you go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.

#2-Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter) Which is really not necessary.

#3-Multiple Power heads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph power heads.

#4-Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume. Unless your tank is under 30g, in which case you can do 10% water changes a week to rid the system of detrius. But, you'll have to watch the water parameters close, if things go haywire, you'll have to do more water changes.

#5-Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Test for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.

#6-Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.

#7-Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one

#8-Rubber kitchen gloves

#9-Fish net

#10-Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets

#11-Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.

#12-Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.

#13-Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.

#14-Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.

#15-Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank

#16-Heater rated for your size tank.

#17-Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt. Instant Ocean is the cheap Salt that beginners and Advanced use alike.

#18-Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate. There is also a Digital Meter that is way advanced if you have the cash.

#19-Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, or GFO and such)

#20-Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed coral. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

wow that is a lot of advice lol, i am kind of confused

are you saying if i have adequate plants/liverocks i dont need a filter of any kind? if this is the case, thats fantastic news

i do like the idea of my tank cleaning itself with fish and plants


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

For a Salt Water tank, yes, you do not need a filter. But by doing wate changes weekly yoiu keep up with the nutrient export. If your not going to do water changes that frequent, you will need a Skimmer.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

sweet thanks, i have no issue with doing water changes, but i will look into everything you mentioned this week and possibly buy a tank by the end


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## gar1948 (Jan 25, 2012)

I would do as much reading as possible on marine setups before buying anything. It is a major jump from a 10 gal fresh water to a 60 salt tank. The equipment will be a bit different from fresh to salt.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

sorry but im back
i would like to ask for more specifics in what i need, can you guys post a link to an item of every item i would need for a basic start up

i dont want a stand because i have a large dresser that cant be moved and is where the tank would be, very sturdy, but no room for a "protein skimmer" like the ones i see in youtube, that go inside the dresser in a hidden cabinet

I am starting to think i should just get a freshwater tank because than i can have a filter hang on the back instead of being visible like the ugly protein skimmer

all i know is i need a tank and live rock and sand, not sure how to install a protein skimmer or if i need one or if i can substitute it for something else because i dont want it to be visible and just sitting outside my dresser

also i would get the tool to test water, probably a heater? not sure its pretty good in my room

uhh..i already have nets and buckets..just need more info on this protein skimmer stuff, is there a hob protein skimmer? if so are they loud/effective


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Buddy, you have a ton of research to do. I strongly suggest getting quite a few books on the subject before you think about doing this.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

i didnt come here for help so people could tell me to do my research, i believe this is a beginner forum, why else would it exist?

i never said i would neglect research, obviously i would, which at the same time asking here is research

i simply asked for whats needed in a start up of a new tank, why even waste time posting when you could be saying something useful like the previous posters


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

a salt water tank with black sand is about as vague("in terms of true marine keeping") as freshwater with black sand.You got water and substrate. Most here do.Doing research is finding out WHAT you would like to attempt(think about it) to keep.There salt only fish; live rock no coral(fowler), and reef.You could get seahorses , or a lionfish? Either way if " water changes are no problem", then you will want/need a good RO/DI filter so you change all that water. NO TAP in the salt world.Or very little success with(possibly fish only).Reasearch isn't a four letter word ,or maybe only beginners should answer beginners forum. I believe you're not pairenoid if they are all out to get you! Madness list is accurate (as usall) and research would affirm that.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Here is a list for a 55g tank:
Reef Octopus BH1000 Hang-on-the-Back Protein Skimmer - Reef Octopus - Protein Skimmers - Bulk Reef Supply
Saltwater Aquarium Salt: Aquarium Systems Instant Ocean & Reef Crystals Synthetic Sea Salt
Aquarium Substrate for Marine Aquariums: CaribSea Instant Aquarium Substrate Tahitian Moon
Hydor Koralia Evolution Nano 240 Aquarium Fish Coral Reef Wavemaker Powerhead | eBay
Anti-Explosion Submersible Aquarium Fish Tank Heater 50W100W 150W 200W 250W 300W | eBay
Fish Tank Aquarium Marine Reef Temperature Thermometer | eBay
Aquarium Reef LED Lamp 30W 14000K White (250W Metal Halide alternative Light) | eBay
Vee Gee Scientific STX-3 Handheld Refractometer, with Salinity Scale, 0-100, +/- | eBay
50 Pound box Key Largo Rock, Free Shipping *in the continental US*


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

my my thank you very much ! now that i have a set up to mimic i can begin deciding what to do


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> my my thank you very much ! now that i have a set up to mimic i can begin deciding what to do


*w2


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

pairenoid said:


> i didnt come here for help so people could tell me to do my research, i believe this is a beginner forum, why else would it exist?
> 
> i never said i would neglect research, obviously i would, which at the same time asking here is research
> 
> i simply asked for whats needed in a start up of a new tank, why even waste time posting when you could be saying something useful like the previous posters


I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning for that too come off the way you took it. I was simply meaning that depending on what you want to keep and how you want the tank set up will decide waht equipment you need. By saying do your research I was meaning you were much to vague for us to begin to reccomend what you need or to be of much help at all. I didn't mean to insult you or hurt your feelings I was actually trying to help you determine what direction you want to head with this project.


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## Sasquatch (May 29, 2011)

Just go with a 20 or 30 gal and you wont need a protein skimmer if you keep up with your water changes. A aquaclear 70 HOB and a couple small powerheads. Lighting will be cheaper with a 36" dual T5 HO with one white and one actinic. Get enough sand to give you a minimum of 1" depth ( I like 2")...Keep a few small fish like a green clown goby and tailspot blenny and you can have lots of soft corals which would be better for beginners. Do a 15% to 20% water change a week..If you use filter media in your filter it needs cleaned out weekly so it doesnt become a phosphate factory. 1lb of live rock per gallon (1.5lbs is even better). SOme will push you to cycle your tank without fish but If you get a couple of cheap damsels to start you can take them back to the petstore when your tank is cycled.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

CrazyMFFM said:


> I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning for that too come off the way you took it. I was simply meaning that depending on what you want to keep and how you want the tank set up will decide waht equipment you need. By saying do your research I was meaning you were much to vague for us to begin to reccomend what you need or to be of much help at all. I didn't mean to insult you or hurt your feelings I was actually trying to help you determine what direction you want to head with this project.


you must of not read my first post
"Where are good places to buy a tank with that size <300, and some advice for starting it up"

its vague so i can decide what i want to do based on how hard it is and how must it would cost or how long it would take..i didnt know what i wanted so i came here looking for ideas, when you tell me buddy i need to do research before even bothering to come here its like going to school and having the teacher say read a book b4 u decide to learn my class


and obviously it was not too vague because some people have been way more helpful than i anticipated..you just decided to give me attitude because you think i shouldnt start a tank, i got that a lot here when i started my freshwater tank, and to be honest i dont even know why i came back here, so many elitists..at least those 1 or 2 people that help made it worth while 

and to sasquatch, i think i might actually consider a smaller tank. After having a 10 gallon for a year you can imagine ive had dreams have having schools of fish and large fish, because im limited to 3-5 fish in my 10 gallon, but 30-40 sounds more realistic now, thanks for the advice


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## Sasquatch (May 29, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> you must of not read my first post
> "Where are good places to buy a tank with that size <300, and some advice for starting it up"
> 
> its vague so i can decide what i want to do based on how hard it is and how must it would cost or how long it would take..i didnt know what i wanted so i came here looking for ideas, when you tell me buddy i need to do research before even bothering to come here its like going to school and having the teacher say read a book b4 u decide to learn my class
> ...



Your welcome! 
I have a 29 gallon with 4 small fish, an abundance of soft corals, 5 crabs, unknown amount of snails and they all do very well under the description I listed for you. With that lighting you are limited to the corals but I have mushrooms, Xenia, Frog spawn, Duncan, star polyps, daisy polyps, Galaxia and they are quite happy with that lighting and flow. THey do make hang on back protein skimmers and such but I have no experience with them. I seen a HOB filter the other day that had a built in UV light..That might be worth looking into!
Here is the URL to a site with that HOB filter with UV light built in
AquaTop #1 Hang On Filter | Premium HOB Filters w/ UV 70% OFF


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

sasquatch i am interested in what 4 fish you have, and why you limited yourself to only 4 fish

are you planning on buying more? I felt that with a 30 gallon tank i could at least have more than i did in my 10 gallon, which is currently 4 fish

is 10 fish too much? i know it depends on size of fish but i really wanted a few bottom feeders and a small school of fish even if they are the size of neon tetras, i want fish to have fish friends lol


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

pairenoid said:


> i didnt come here for help so people could tell me to do my research, i believe this is a beginner forum, why else would it exist?
> 
> i never said i would neglect research, obviously i would, which at the same time asking here is research
> 
> i simply asked for whats needed in a start up of a new tank, why even waste time posting when you could be saying something useful like the previous posters


Stop being rude, he just offered good advice and your answer was out of line.

And when it comes to salt water, you should have less fish than what you would have with fresh.

And Reef, shame on you for thanking him on it.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

ill treat people the way they treat me, and i was not rude in anyway

i dealt with him the same way he dealt with me, and shame on you for being on a power trip

and its funny because i remember u and ur power trip on my old threads lol, u must really enjoy being a moderator, it suits your personality, here ccomes the close ,ban oo [email protected]#

anyways i want to thank sasquatch and reefer,  i got what i needed, and will never come back to this horrible forum of elitists lol, susankat your really nice its really funny i cant wait to see your response, but ill never even come back to check it sooo enjoy raging

i feel sorry for your fish


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## Sasquatch (May 29, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> sasquatch i am interested in what 4 fish you have, and why you limited yourself to only 4 fish
> 
> are you planning on buying more? I felt that with a 30 gallon tank i could at least have more than i did in my 10 gallon, which is currently 4 fish
> 
> is 10 fish too much? i know it depends on size of fish but i really wanted a few bottom feeders and a small school of fish even if they are the size of neon tetras, i want fish to have fish friends lol



You have to consider the bio load. To many fish and its going to be hard to keep your nitrates down enough to keep corals. THe fish are the "main" reason for the need of water changes (not the only reason). Corals have to have good water to thrive, fish muck it up. So one of your decisions would be do I want a fish only tank (where water condition can be slack) or corals where water condition has to be good. Only the ocean can have the best of both worlds,,unless of course you have a heck of a filtration unit and lots of time to commit to it.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

susankat said:


> Stop being rude, he just offered good advice and your answer was out of line.
> 
> And when it comes to salt water, you should have less fish than what you would have with fresh.
> 
> And Reef, shame on you for thanking him on it.


Whoa, don't bring me into this. I greed with him about being jumped by CF. I too thiught that comment she made was totally uncalled for. Be was not being rude at all in my mind. He asked a question, don't remember him asking to get his head ripped off by anyone.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Reefing Madness said:


> Whoa, don't bring me into this. I greed with him about being jumped by CF. I too thiught that comment she made was totally uncalled for. Be was not being rude at all in my mind. He asked a question, don't remember him asking to get his head ripped off by anyone.


The comment in the beginning was CF advising him to research, which as you know is good advice, pairenoid came back with a rude answer and you thanked him for it. CF didn't get snippy until pairenoid did. But he is gone now and this thread is locked


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