# Fixing Up My Ten Gallon Tank.



## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Hi. I'm new to the forum. I was hoping Google would lead me to a place like this. Hopefully you guys can help me with my freshwater tank.

I'm not exactly a beginner but this will definitely be my most thought up tank set up.

Here are some of thee things that I have never used before in my previous set ups.

1. Sand
2. Live Plants
3. Snails

I will definitely be wanting to use sand and some live plants. I'm not sure about the snails. I've never had any before, so I'll probably only get two. What's it like keeping these guys? My tank is an open-top so do they like to climb out of the water? :fish9:

Sand won't be a problem for me to handle, I have the right filter and type of sand.

I don't know much about plants. I've been suggested getting Java Fern and Java Moss but I haven't seen much of those. The plant I keep seeing is something called the Amazon Sword. If you guys can explain what it's like having these plants or suggest other plants that would be great. If it helps I will also have some driftwood. I've been told some plants can anchor on to that.

Now for the fishies.

I am definitely getting two Bumblebee Catfish. Food and Temperature isn't a problem for me. What I am wondering is how many more fish could I be able to keep with them?

I know there's the 1 inch per 1 gallon rule. The catfish will grow the most to 3.5/4 inches.

I want to have more fish, but I won't if it will be too cramped.

I was thinking about getting 2 or 3 Pygmy Corys. If you guys think it might be too cramped, tell me please. I would also like some suggestions to other possible candidates. I will enjoy keeping anything as long as it's not aggressive or anything that likes to "jump". I have an open tank and do not need jumpers. 

Any other suggestions would be great. At the moment I do not have a budget limit (but I won't be getting a bigger tank).

This is a long post but I hope you guys can help me! I will post pictures of the progress of my tank and hopefully you guys like it. :betta:


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Pigeonfish said:


> 1. My tank is an open-top so do they like to climb out of the water?
> 2. I don't know much about plants. I've been suggested getting Java Fern and Java Moss but I haven't seen much of those. The plant I keep seeing is something called the Amazon Sword. If you guys can explain what it's like having these plants or suggest other plants that would be great. If it helps I will also have some driftwood. I've been told some plants can anchor on to that.
> 3. I am definitely getting two Bumblebee Catfish. Food and Temperature isn't a problem for me. What I am wondering is how many more fish could I be able to keep with them? I want to have more fish, but I won't if it will be too cramped. I was thinking about getting 2 or 3 Pygmy Corys. If you guys think it might be too cramped, tell me please. I would also like some suggestions to other possible candidates. I will enjoy keeping anything as long as it's not aggressive or anything that likes to "jump". I have an open tank and do not need jumpers.


1. Snails will emerge from the water, but not for long. Make sure you get snails that won't reproduce or you'll have many more than just one or two. My favorite are Nerite snails. Heard great things about apple snails and mystery snails as well though.
2. All plants require some basic things - light, carbon, nitrogen, and other smaller trace elements. They get light from the fixture over the tank, they get some carbon and nitrogen from the water (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, CO2, carbonate, bicarbonate, etc.), and they get the rest from their root systems. Plants love sand - easiest stuff for their roots to grow in. Leave your sand dirty - the plants will thank you. Also keep adding fresh water every 1-2 weeks, as they will get some other trace elements like iron, phosphate, etc. from the fresh water. Alternatively, you could dose fertilizers like root tabs and liquid plant food. Either way, your plants need marginal amounts of traces and more in the way of carbon and nitrogen.
3. With cats and cory cats together the bottom of your tank will be crowded. Instead, I would advise some middle or top swimmers like guppies or tetras. Just my thoughts though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I wouldn't add any snails. you will get plenty with your plants.

For plants I use 4-6 bunches of anacharis, 4-6 vals, 4-6 small potted types, and a single amazon sword.

for substrate I use 1" peat moss, 1" play sand, 1" pc select (or aquarium gravel). peat moss is the sphagum peat moss in the 1'x1'x3' plastic bales for $11 from home depot. Play sand is just the play sand from home depot for $3/50 pound bag. The pc select is an baked red clay used for baseball infields from pro choice. I had to email them to get a local supplier who had to special order a pallet. A 50 pound bag was $8.

I layer them in that order, wet the layer, clean up the tank then add the next.

I then plant the plants before filling the tank.

then finally fill the tank with water poured over a dish.

I then let the tank set a week.

then add a single male platty and again wait a week with no food being added.

I then add a couple of females and start feeding 1 flake per day.

After a few more weeks you can add the cat fish or other fish.

Of course no water changes, no filters not even an air stone.

just my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Rinse the plants before putting them in your tank so you don't get any "pest" snails that are hermaphrodites and will breed like mad.

Nerite snails are excellent algae eaters, but will crawl out of the tank (as will any other snail), so you'll need a lid. Nerite snail eggs need brackish water to hatch, so they won't over populate a tank! They're great! I've got 3 and they just lay little sesame seed looking eggs (single eggs) on the rocks and I just scrape 'em off.

The 1 inch of fish per gallon doesn't really work, since space gets taken up by gravel/sand, decor and plants. I wouldn't put any other fish in the tank if you get 2 bumblebee catfish.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks guys!

One thing I got from this is that I should definitely find the lid for my tank. Two Reasons: Light for the plants and so I don't have runaway snails. 



[email protected] said:


> 3. With cats and cory cats together the bottom of your tank will be crowded. Instead, I would advise some middle or top swimmers like guppies or tetras. Just my thoughts though.


Great insight. I didn't know Corys were bottom feeders too. :3



beaslbob said:


> I wouldn't add any snails. you will get plenty with your plants.
> 
> For plants I use 4-6 bunches of anacharis, 4-6 vals, 4-6 small potted types, and a single amazon sword.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's an interesting set up. A couple questions tho...

A platty is this? They shouldn't get bigger than an inch right?

And I find the use of the red clay really neat, what's the exact purpose for it? :3



holly12 said:


> Rinse the plants before putting them in your tank so you don't get any "pest" snails that are hermaphrodites and will breed like mad.
> 
> Nerite snails are excellent algae eaters, but will crawl out of the tank (as will any other snail), so you'll need a lid. Nerite snail eggs need brackish water to hatch, so they won't over populate a tank! They're great! I've got 3 and they just lay little sesame seed looking eggs (single eggs) on the rocks and I just scrape 'em off.
> 
> The 1 inch of fish per gallon doesn't really work, since space gets taken up by gravel/sand, decor and plants. I wouldn't put any other fish in the tank if you get 2 bumblebee catfish.


Ahh yes! With some snooping on the internet I saw that as being a problem with snails. Thanks for the tip of rinsing the plants! 

Since you mentioned the fact that the decor and sand does take up space.. what's a good amount of sand for me to put at the bottom, about half an inch? I want to make sure the plants have room for their roots.. Or that won't be a problem?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

for plants you need 2 inches _at least _(from what I've been told) so the roots have something to grab onto. As long as you don't have like, 4 inches of gravel in a 10g tank you should be fine. Just be careful with how big your decorations are. Most fish like tanks that are densely planted at the sides and back, with some open area in the middle for swimming. So, in the middle you could have a modest sized decoration or two - even something that also functions as a cave for them to hide in. As long as there is enough room so swim freely but also hide when they feel shy, fish are pretty happy.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

holly12 said:


> for plants you need 2 inches _at least _(from what I've been told) so the roots have something to grab onto. As long as you don't have like, 4 inches of gravel in a 10g tank you should be fine. Just be careful with how big your decorations are. Most fish like tanks that are densely planted at the sides and back, with some open area in the middle for swimming. So, in the middle you could have a modest sized decoration or two - even something that also functions as a cave for them to hide in. As long as there is enough room so swim freely but also hide when they feel shy, fish are pretty happy.


Perfect! I'll get a couple hiding places, but I probably won't get driftwood since they are pretty big and if the sand is sufficient enough for the plants to thrive. If I find a pretty small piece of driftwood then maybe. 

I am definitely thinking about happy fish! I'll probably be doing research on some mid and top feeders. I would like some (definitely no more than three!) I mean I love the Bumblebee Catfish but they are so shy. :3


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Good luck! The planning is the best part! (I'm planning out the set up and stocking of a 36g at the moment.... so many choices, lol!)

Have fun and definitely post pics when you get it all set up and the fish are in!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep on both accounts. The idea is to establish the tank with a pretty, inexpensive and hardy fish. But you could do the same with any fish. Just add one and not add food for a week.


> And I find the use of the red clay really neat, what's the exact purpose for it? :3


 well first of all is does look nice and is extremely inexpensive.
Secondly it kinda holds down the sand.

Finally I did get an "assay" from the manufacturer and it seemed to have some "neat" stuff in it. but actually aquarium gravel is good also.

web site:

Pro's Choice Products


> ...


Don't worry about snails on the plants. Sure you will have a bloom at first but then a year later only a few will be left.

my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Yep on both accounts. The idea is to establish the tank with a pretty, inexpensive and hardy fish. But you could do the same with any fish. Just add one and not add food for a week. well first of all is does look nice and is extremely inexpensive.
> Secondly it kinda holds down the sand.
> 
> Finally I did get an "assay" from the manufacturer and it seemed to have some "neat" stuff in it. but actually aquarium gravel is good also.
> ...


I might be using your setup! I like the fact that it really makes the aquarium it's own ecosystem!

Should I add the snails at the same time as the Platy or after the tank stabilizes itself? :fish9:


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> I might be using your setup! I like the fact that it really makes the aquarium it's own ecosystem!
> 
> Should I add the snails at the same time as the Platy or after the tank stabilizes itself? :fish9:


Actually the tank will be stabilized immediately after adding the plants. But balanced naaaa. Takes time for the aerobic bacteria to build up.

I don't add snails. Just use whatever show up with the plants.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

My adult Platies are about 2". Males get to about 1.75 inches and females can get to 2.5 inches.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> My adult Platies are about 2". Males get to about 1.75 inches and females can get to 2.5 inches.


I'll keep that in mind when choosing other top/mid feeder tank mates. Seems like I might go with two tetra since those don't get big at all. Would tetra's be satisfied with a school of two? Hardly a school. Perhaps three?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

If you are adding your own snails, wait until the tank is cycled as they are sensitive to off water params.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

I was researching some fish and one caught my eye.

One of it's many names is the Pygmy Gourami. I've seen tanks with larger Gouramis and they always fascinate me.

Does anyone here have them? What are they like? I don't recall seeing these little guys at my local pet stores. So I'll have to check but they look very nice and since they are not schooling fish (according to the wiki) I can have two of them and they'll be content. What do you guys think?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Never had a pygmy. I'm currently looking into getting some dwarfs. (If you do get more than 1, I suggest that the other be a female.) Make gouramis can (and usually will) kill rival males in a tank. A female should be fine with a male. (You may want to look into getting 1 male and 2 or 3 females, so that the male doesn't pester one to breed all the time.) It kind of gives the girls a break.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

holly12 said:


> Never had a pygmy. I'm currently looking into getting some dwarfs. (If you do get more than 1, I suggest that the other be a female.) Make gouramis can (and usually will) kill rival males in a tank. A female should be fine with a male. (You may want to look into getting 1 male and 2 or 3 females, so that the male doesn't pester one to breed all the time.) It kind of gives the girls a break.


Are Gouramis strong enough to handle a little/no bacteria tank? I could switch the Platy for one of the Gouramis... that way I can definitely have one male/two females. Definitely want at least one male since I'm guessing they have the prettier colors. :3

Another combination I'm thinking of is two Platys and a male Pygmy Gourami. Would the Gourami pester them?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I wouldn't add Gouramis until the tank is done cycling. (Not sure how 'hardy' they are.)

It _shouldn't_ attack the platys. They tend to be peaceful towards other fish species but not to their own, lol. That said, each fish has a different personality, and you could get one that just is angry and hates everyone.

Make sure there are no fin nippers in the tank, as they will bite off the gouramis long belly fins.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

The pygmy gouramis are cool looking little fish.I was thinking of some for tankmates to my macs.

I do not,however suggest using them in a cycle.Though they are said to be hardy,theres not much that can live through a cycle,even a silent one.I honestly think you should fishless cycle,but thats just me.

Make sure the water is not too turbulent as they dont like alot of flow,much like a betta.And they have to be able to get to surface air.Even though they are a fish,they can drown.Floating plants will be a great addition for the male to nest in and hide in.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

holly12 said:


> I wouldn't add Gouramis until the tank is done cycling. (Not sure how 'hardy' they are.)
> 
> It _shouldn't_ attack the platys. They tend to be peaceful towards other fish species but not to their own, lol. That said, each fish has a different personality, and you could get one that just is angry and hates everyone.
> 
> Make sure there are no fin nippers in the tank, as they will bite off the gouramis long belly fins.


Then I might have to go with the 2 Platy/Male Pygmy Gourami.

Or 1 Platy/2-3 Tetras.

Depending on the stores I go to I might not even find a Pygmy Gourami but even if I do I wouldn't be able to decide... I might make a poll adding on to the thread. Leave it to chance. 

It's definitely a set up I would like in the future though


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Silly gouramis - not liking current! I was planning on letting my filter run wide open (I heard corys like lots of 02) but now I guess I'll have to turn it down a bit so as to not bug the gouramis! (I do have floating plants for them though... and I guess they can "anchor" themselves in a plant that's growing from the gravel, lol.) They may have to just deal with it. (Full flow, the filter will turn over 200 gph - which is what a 36g needs, so I don't want to turn it down too much or I'll risk under filtering the water.)


And, as for making stocking decisions: I have the same trouble, lol! I even posted yesterday about the compatibility of the fish I was hoping to get. (With a few that I'm still not sure on,) just to get a general consensus on the fish I want.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> The pygmy gouramis are cool looking little fish.I was thinking of some for tankmates to my macs.
> 
> I do not,however suggest using them in a cycle.Though they are said to be hardy,theres not much that can live through a cycle,even a silent one.I honestly think you should fishless cycle,but thats just me.
> 
> Make sure the water is not too turbulent as they dont like alot of flow,much like a betta.And they have to be able to get to surface air.Even though they are a fish,they can drown.Floating plants will be a great addition for the male to nest in and hide in.


In my past tanks keeping one fish for a week always worked for me, how would I do a fishless cycle?

Confused about some of the lingo stabilizing, establish, cycle... >.<

I know of the element/chemical (one or the other) cycles but I never had drastic changes in my water.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Fishless cycles are great! http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html Here's the sticky from this forum on how to do it.

My 20g is the first tank I've ever done fishless and I will NEVER do it any other way again! The cycle is almost done (and it's only been 3 weeks), as opposed to 6-8 when cycling with fish. Also, when cycling fishless, you have the ammonia levels up _waaay_ higher than they ever would be with fish, so when the cycle is done, you can fully stock your tank right away, (instead of having to do just 1 or 2 fish at a time every few weeks.)

The only trouble is finding the straight ammonia. I went to about 7 different stores to find it. Finally found some in "Home Hardware" for under $3. The brand is "Old Country."


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

A fishless cycle is done by using something as a source of ammonia,instead of fish.Many use pure ammonia,and some has used fish flakes.Even others here have used thawed prawns.You basically are jumpstarting the nitrogen cycle,establishing the beneficial bacteria in the filter and making the environment stable from the get go.You have to test the water for ammonia nitrite and nitrate alot.

Theres a sticky here somewhere about it,if you are interested,read through it.If you decide to go that way many people will help you the whole step of the way to be sure its done right.

and the lingo,stabilize,is exactly what it sounds like.a stable home for the fish.jumps up and down on the PH ammonia nitrite and nitrate,which if any of these swing too fast can be deadly.
Establish.that is to basically get everything settled in.All the goodies in the filter and gravel.

And cycle is the nitrogen cycle.

there ya go,Holly beat me to it!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey Maj, do you think the gouramis would be bothered by my filter? (see meh post approx 4 up from this one...)


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Okay. I'm back that was an interesting read. I have a question, I'm sure you guys can answer it.

Can I do the fishless cycle with many plants already in the tank?
*
@beaslbob* Does your Peat Moss setup have an effect with the ammonia and nitrates/nitrites? Will it have a negative or positive effect if do a fishless cycle?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Live plants in a fishless cycle (using straight ammonia) will die. The ammonia will burn them. (You get your levels to about 4-5ppm, and that's just too high for live plants.) If you have them in your tank already, is it possible to put them in a container with gravel, water and lighting to keep them alive until the cycle is done?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Holly,if he can get to a place thats calm,he will be fine.He just has to be able to breathe and rest.If you have some broad leaves up near the surface he will prop against those.

Pigeonfish,Holly answered your question.If you have the plants,you can indeed keep them in a container with a light for the time being.If you dont have them then hold off on getting them.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks! I feel better now that I know I won't drown the poor things, lol!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah you want a weird look from your husband?tell him you are worried you fish will drown.

Please tell me the look you get and we can compare.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ammonia is ammonia, whether it is from fish or you adding for a fishless sycle. You CAN add ammonia to a tank with plants. You will just lower the level to about 2ppm instead of keeping it as high as typical during a normal fishless cycle using ammonia.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm gonna be taking a trip to my local pet stores in a few days. I'll be taking notes and I'll share them with you, hopefully I will have a completely planned out set up and make some sketches.

As for the fishless cycle, I don't think it's for me. Sure it's quicker, but I'm patient and prefer things to be done naturally :3

I'll be lurking most likely so don't be afraid of posting. ^-^


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A cycle with fish and a tank full of plants will be easier and possibly faster. Assuming plenty of plants though.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Tomorrow I will be visiting all my local pet/fish stores, mainly to see what they have exactly, and I will be posting my final (mostly) decisions on what I will do with my tank.

I'm very excited.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Okay. I'm back that was an interesting read. I have a question, I'm sure you guys can answer it.
> 
> Can I do the fishless cycle with many plants already in the tank?
> *
> @beaslbob** Does your Peat Moss setup have an effect with the ammonia and nitrates/nitrites? Will it have a negative or positive effect if do a fishless cycle*?


don't know other then following my recommendations there are only very low (to no) short lived ammonia/nitrIte spikes. I do get a nitrate spike immediately which could be from nitrates in the peat moss.

The main effect I have measured is KH and GH stay low for years but increase slowly with just sand.

Dianne Walstad reports the garden soil contains some bacteria which helps initially to reduce ammonia. But that is not the aquadic bacteria that builds up over time.

A web site for peat moss indicates that in a soil environment the peat sucks up ammonia initially then slowly releases back to the soil.

But then I can't say for sure as I don't use the ammonia dosing schemes.


my .02


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I think jrman said that you can do a fishless cycle if you keep the ammonia to around 2ppm instead of 4ppm. (4 would burn them.)

"Ammonia is ammonia, whether it is from fish or you adding for a fishless sycle. You CAN add ammonia to a tank with plants. You will just lower the level to about 2ppm instead of keeping it as high as typical during a normal fishless cycle using ammonia." This is what he said. (About 5 posts or so above this one.)


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Warning long post!

It's funny how all the fish stores I went to today all have certain things that are exceptional about them.

All had healthy fish, but only one had the ones I wanted. :3

Most had plants but it was limited (pretty healthy looking) One had more plants but not so healthy looking.

I went to PetSmart and I was surprised to see the tanks there were kept pretty nice and the prices for the tanks were definitely the best, everything else seemed over priced especially the food and plants (the plants looked terrible).

I even went to Home Depot, the prices for the Peat Moss and Sand were what they should have been but I don't have any space for those big bags! I live in a tiny apartment. I checked out the terracotta pots, I'm gonna buy a couple and break them in half to make some caves/ hiding spots for my future Bumblebee Catfish, they're only a dollar compared to other fancy things in the pet stores. Anyways, since I heard great reviews about the Eco-Complete I decided I would be using that, but it is overpriced in the only store I saw it in (It wasn't even the color I wanted) So, I'll be getting the Eco-Complete from Petco.com 

Now, I'm thinking about getting plants from Aquariumplants.com, I always see mixed reviews. I don't mind paying the UPS Next Day Air (for me it's about 35.00 dollars)

I read their Shipping Policies
 and at the bottom of that link there's a map... Now, I live in Florida and it says 3 days, if the map implies that I'm paying for a one-day shipping but I will receive in three... I will be disappointed. It's been extremely hot here and I don't think the plants will survive a three day trip. I emailed the website asking them more details, but I don't know if or when they'll respond. They're probably busy people, haha.

What I'm trying to get to is... Has anyone here bought things from Aquariumplants.com? Or know anyone? Or used other sites that you have been satisfied with?



One good thing, I found the perfect piece of driftwood for my tank, It's a t-bone shape with enough space to put a plant in the middle (has almost a hole it will fit perfectly)

I also decided I'm just gonna get 3 Platys to go with the Catfish, they were so much prettier than I remembered.

And the following will be my ideal plant setup for my tank:

1x Amazon Sword (for the middle back)
1x Italian Val (for the back)
1x Java Fern (putting on the driftwood)
4x Cryptocoryne, Wendtii, Green (for the front and middle)
1x Anacharis (for the middle back)
1x Dwarf Hairgrass (any empty spaces)
2x Anubias Nana (anchoring one to each terracotta pot)

What do you guys think? Any suggestion to how I can fix that would be great, Or if it's too much, I would like having lots of plants though. :3

I will probably spend around $100 give or take, which is exactly what I expected. I have to save up for it though, So I still have plenty of planning time, any help will be appreciated. 

Excited about the tank. It has become almost a project!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

No experience with the aquariumplants.com.

Really only thing I wanted to add is you dont have to break the pots in half.You can easily drill holes in them with water and a knife.Think tile and wet saw.Keep the pots wet and gently use a knife to start drilling a hole where you want it.slowly drill(under the running water)until the hole is as big as you want it.You can put as many in there as you like too.I have one I will see if I can get a pic of tomorrow for you if you are interested.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> No experience with the aquariumplants.com.
> 
> Really only thing I wanted to add is you dont have to break the pots in half.You can easily drill holes in them with water and a knife.Think tile and wet saw.Keep the pots wet and gently use a knife to start drilling a hole where you want it.slowly drill(under the running water)until the hole is as big as you want it.You can put as many in there as you like too.I have one I will see if I can get a pic of tomorrow for you if you are interested.


Sure, a picture would be nice! My partner told me not to break it with a hammer either >.< they'll probably help me so I don't waste the pots. :3


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Bump D:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Bumped for what?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hope that works

Anyhow here is a pic of the hole on the other side.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Bumped for what?


There was literally a page of spambot threads and mine fell behind... :3 



majerah1 said:


> Hope that works
> 
> Anyhow here is a pic of the hole on the other side.


Wow very nice!


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Back again.

Aquariumplants.com actually responded to me very quickly and cleared up my confusion. The map on the website is Ground Mail and not Air Mail like the one I'm paying for, So I should receive the plants in one day. They seem pretty reliable so I'm probably going to get my plants from here.

Wondering about two other things.

1. Where can I find good priced water test kits? I don't want to rely on my local fish stores to tell me. The one I saw was about 40 dollars and it had all the different types of tests, I can't remember if it was liquid or strips. I would rather use liquid since those are more accurate. What do you guys recommend?

2. I have an incandescent light and hood for my ten gallon. I heard fluorescent lights are better for plants. I saw the fluorescent hood for my tank in all the stores but they all had different prices varying from $20-40. Where can I get this at the lowest price?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Sorry for the triple post.

Since I'm gonna have a lot of plants in this tank, how badly will I need CO2 Injections and Fertilizers? 

I was doing some research on plant care and those came up. Will it be necessary for my ten gallon and if I use CaribSea Eco-Complete? I will also have an air stone producing bubbles.

p.s. I'm probably going to do a silent cycle, so I want to promote growth.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Back again.
> 
> Aquariumplants.com actually responded to me very quickly and cleared up my confusion. The map on the website is Ground Mail and not Air Mail like the one I'm paying for, So I should receive the plants in one day. They seem pretty reliable so I'm probably going to get my plants from here.
> 
> ...


Good for you!!!!!!!!
Even better if it has 2 screw in incandescent sockets.

Here's what you do. Go to your local wall mart and find compact flourecent pig tail spiral incandescent replacement bulbs. Find the GE brand that says 6500 vertically down the side. Get a pack of two 11w (actual not incandescent replacement watts (should be like 65w or so). They should screw right in, the plants will thrive, and the tank will look great.

I do think you have a nice selection of plants only I would have gotten more anacharis. I do agree aquariumplants is awesome. And also find it interesting our LFS in huntsville Al get plants from florida and you are going all the way to south dakota. I also found anacharis here at a pond shop. So you may want to check that out.

on the pots be careful with the holes. I lost one small fish that was just big enough to get stuck in the small holes in a pot.

But overall seems you are comming along.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Sorry for the triple post.
> 
> Since I'm gonna have a lot of plants in this tank, how badly will I need CO2 Injections and Fertilizers?
> 
> ...


IMHO all you need is the tank, water, light, plants, and fish.

No bubbles, filters, co2, ferts and so on.

(don't make it too hard or complicated *old dude)

my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Good for you!!!!!!!!
> Even better if it has 2 screw in incandescent sockets.
> 
> Here's what you do. Go to your local wall mart and find compact flourecent pig tail spiral incandescent replacement bulbs. Find the GE brand that says 6500 vertically down the side. Get a pack of two 11w (actual not incandescent replacement watts (should be like 65w or so). They should screw right in, the plants will thrive, and the tank will look great.
> ...


Why didn't I think of that? You always seem to think of the most elegant ways to set up your tanks and by elegant I mean simplicity 

I'll add another Anacharis to my list then. (I haven't bought the plants yet) By crunching numbers, I'm gonna have to wait about a month before I buy everything. I have the money now but I will be left with pennies and I'm not making as much money as I would like. It's just to be safe, in case of an emergency I like to keep some money around.

It's strange. About 3-4 years ago the pet stores I went to always had lush plants, visiting them the past few weeks, they had little/no plants. As it turns out there is an aquatic plant nursery 40 mins away from me but they don't sell to the public, Only to distributors. 

I could always call and bother them, but I'm not that type of person.

I'll take caution with the pots. Thanks a lot.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Why didn't I think of that? You always seem to think of the most elegant ways to set up your tanks and by elegant I mean simplicity
> 
> I'll add another Anacharis to my list then. (I haven't bought the plants yet) By crunching numbers, I'm gonna have to wait about a month before I buy everything. I have the money now but I will be left with pennies and I'm not making as much money as I would like. It's just to be safe, in case of an emergency I like to keep some money around.
> 
> ...


Perhaps your LFS could special order from them *old dude


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Perhaps your LFS could special order from them *old dude


I emailed the nursery asking for a list of the distributors in my area. Let's see what happens. *n1


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I forgot about the top holes in the pots,lol.I have bettas and they are very curious so they try to stick their heads in there.I use craft canvas to seal them.I cut two squares of craft canvas.They are small enough to fit inside the pot.I have one inside and one outside and use fishing line to tie them together.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

While the plant nursery hasn't responded to me yet, a friend of mine told me of a fish farm nearby. He says the fish are of top quality... and wait for it... so are the plants! I'll probably drop by some time next week and tell you guys how it was.

Unfortunately I think buying the things for my tank might be delayed by ANOTHER month. I had to use some money for some personal issues. Took of a chunk of what I was saving up.

Maybe that fish farm has a money tree *#3

Anyways, I only thought of two things to make my setup better.

Instead of 3 Platys I'm gonna get 4. 1 Male 3 Female, that way I won't have the girls be exhausted by the male. My tank can handle the 4 especially with all the plants, plus my filter can handle it. If they have fry they'll be at the mercy of the two Bumblebee Catfish, I'm sure they'll find em delicious.

I won't be getting the Italian Vals, I'll get some Corkscrew Vals instead, since they don't grow over 24" 

Hope everyone has a good weekend. I'll be lurking. :animated_fish_swimm


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Been awhile, I found my tax refund check and I ended up buying my supplies with it *r2

I bought Carib-Sea Eco-Complete and API Water Test Kit

Tomorrow I will be visiting a fish farm not too far away from me, I'm gonna be checking out the plants mostly.

I do have a question though, I won't be receiving the substrate for a while. If the plants are good quality I'd probably want to buy them tomorrow so I don't have to drive back. Is there anyway I can keep the plants healthy for a little less than week before putting them in the substrate?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Been awhile, I found my tax refund check and I ended up buying my supplies with it *r2
> 
> I bought Carib-Sea Eco-Complete and API Water Test Kit
> 
> ...


Should be ok for a week or so. Just be sure to have them planted in the substrate a week before adding fish. For the roots to get established in the substate.

my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Should be ok for a week or so. Just be sure to have them planted in the substrate a week before adding fish. For the roots to get established in the substate.
> 
> my .02


So putting them in a bucket with water would be cool?

I just got a tracking number, the substrate should be here in 3 days more or less.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> So putting them in a bucket with water would be cool?
> 
> I just got a tracking number, the substrate should be here in 3 days more or less.


That should be no problem at all.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Hi again, going to the fish farm was interesting, they had a large variety of fish and really good aquarium items but it seemed like they never cleaned the place. Upon entering I noticed cobwebs everywhere and green water. Snails were roaming everywhere at the mercy of our giant feet. 

There was even fungi growing on the sides of the cement tanks they created for their fish. Filtration seemed to just be a tube pumping air into the tanks.

The plants were rotting and covered in algae and they didn't have much variety.

My friend must have been there when they received the plants fresh and in new clean water.

*tl;dr* I might buy plants online because I can't seem to find a decent place with plants. It's frustrating knowing there is a plant nursery thirty minutes away that distributes to most online vendors and I can't get a hold on them. :/

I went to Walmart and bought some supplies.



Found and bought the lights beaslbob recommended. I also bought a terracotta pot and sawed it in half. It'll make great hiding spots for my future fish.



There is the tank with the new lights, it looks wonderful.

The rest of my supplies should be coming in a few days. I'm gonna try one more time trying to find a better way of finding plants, otherwise I'm getting them online.

Here's the link to the gallery dedicated to my journey of my set-up:

Aquarium Gallery - Ten Gallon Set-Up

Any info/recommendations on getting plants would be appreciated. :3


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I have a crypt on aquabid and two amazon swords.What types of plants are you looking for?I am asking 20 shipped on the crypt as shes a beast.Thats about the only place I order from,TBH.Well there and from other users here.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> I have a crypt on aquabid and two amazon swords.What types of plants are you looking for?I am asking 20 shipped on the crypt as shes a beast.Thats about the only place I order from,TBH.Well there and from other users here.


I'm looking for 4 green crypts, a small amazon sword, 3 small java ferns & anubais, 2 anacharis, some corkskrew vals and some dwarf hairgrass.

Should I make a post in the sales forum saying I'm looking for these?

Edit: I'm also checking out Aquabid.com now.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I've got an Amazon Sword I need to give away.....reason: it is wanting to grow out of my 125g and it is getting too big...may not work for most.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I've got an Amazon Sword I need to give away.....reason: it is wanting to grow out of my 125g and it is getting too big...may not work for most.


If it's too big for your 125g then it will be a giant for my ten gallon tank *n1

I think Aquabid would be better for me if I only had to get a couple plants. There are so many different vendors and shipping prices.

I'm doing my research though and crunching numbers...

On Aquariumplants.com Most of the plants I want will cost $40 dollars + $35 for shipping. That seems extremely overpriced. But I like the simplicity that it is all from one place.

I've also noticed most of the vendors on Aquabid are also some other aquarium plant websites.

Edit:

Sweet Aquatics is one of the vendors, on the website I can get everything I want for the same price as Aquariumplants.com, they are also a lot closer to me so I don't mind using the cheaper shipping. It'll cost around $50. What do you guys think?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm gonna order from Sweet Aquatics. They have pretty good feedback.










There's my cart. Wish me luck.

I'll be posting a small review after I receive the plants. (if *y2)

Edit: I HATE PAYPAL. ._.

Payment went through after a couple tries... Hope everything goes well.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Received the Eco-Complete...

Now I just have to wait for my plants :3

I'm excited


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Quick update:

My plants should be arriving in 2-3 days. *w3

Currently soaking my driftwood to get rid of most of the tannin. Can't wait. :3


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

*w3


Thoughts? :3


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

That's a lot of plants....but I also grew mine from bulbs, haha.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> That's a lot of plants...


That was the idea.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Looking good. How long did you have to soak your drift wood? Mine's been soaking for a week, with hot water changes twice a day and still leaching tannins into the bucket, (2 smallish pieces.)


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

holly12 said:


> Looking good. How long did you have to soak your drift wood? Mine's been soaking for a week, with hot water changes twice a day and still leaching tannins into the bucket, (2 smallish pieces.)


Thanks Holly. 

I soaked the driftwood for about two days. First day the water was yellow. Second day it was pretty clear. 

When I bought it the employee at the LFS told me it was already treated. So I guess that's why I didn't have to do much with it.

Really great, I got it for only $8 dollars too. What a steal.

Edit:










Here's the tank today, it has cleared up a bit. I have shaky hands though, so most of my pictures come out blurry. :3

Also saw one snail, I'm guessing it won't be long 'till a see a few more.


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## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

looking good nice job


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

This is the tank today.

The contortion vals seem to be losing their leaves. Doing research though, turns out that might promote new growth. I hope they pull through.

I planted the Anacharis since it kept keeping junk in its leaves. They're growing lots.

The junk was never supposed to be there, turns out I planted the dwarf hairgrass mat wrong, and I was supposed to remove the wool, I replanted it, now it looks great. I hope they grow better now.

Everything else is growing well and looking good. 

I'm probably gonna buy some Flourish Excel, since it will definitely help with the growth of my plants.

I haven't tested my water yet, I probably will though in a couple days. I don't plan on adding fish until next week, I want to make sure the plants settle down nicely.


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## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

its looking better everday great job on it


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I think you will find things are great and that fist fish will thrive if you don't add food for a week.

I predict water testing will not be necessary.

Now with my big mouth you have to keep us posted.

my .02


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Looks great!Ive no real experience with vals but I do believe you are right that new leaves will grow.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

> pH: 7.4
> Ammonia: 0ppm
> Nitrite: 5ppm
> Nitrate: 5ppm


What does this mean? *n1


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

^ Should I do a water change and try adding a hardy platy?

Also, I'm noticing a lot more snails now, and baby snails.

Should I get 3/4 Assassin Snails soon?

People on Aquabid sell 20+

I don't need that many. Wondering if anyone here can donate or sell :3


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I went to Sweet Aquatics and was uber impressed! I put a whole bunch of stuff in my 'cart' then went to check out and realized they don't ship to Canada!!!! Grrrrr!

Tank's lookin' good! Can't wait to see it with fish in it!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> What does this mean? *n1


It means you should not add food for a few days until nitrItes come down to 0.*old dude

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> ^ Should I do a water change


 nope


> and try adding a hardy platy?


not yet. wait a week to let nitrItes drop down and plants more balance out the tank


> Also, I'm noticing a lot more snails now, and baby snails.


yep.--normal and there will be only a few in a year if you do nothing


> Should I get 3/4 Assassin Snails soon?


nope
Besides why would you want three fourths of a snail *r2


> People on Aquabid sell 20+


so?


> I don't need that many. Wondering if anyone here can donate or sell :3


just hang in there. let the nitrItes come down. Let the snail bloom subside.

I know it's hard to do nothing but planted tank anywhere near properly setup will just take care of these things on their own. 

IME all I can do is interfere (screw up *old dude) that process.


my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Okay. I'll trust the plants. :3 

I'll check the water again in a week.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Where did you get nitrites from if there are no fish in the tank?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Where did you get nitrites from if there are no fish in the tank?


I'm guessing the plants and the snails pooping.

I also found this:










Google says it's Planaria. Now I'm noticing miniscule versions on the back of my aquarium.


They freak me out a little, but google says they aren't really that bad. As long as I don't over feed, I should be okay?

Edit: I don't get how they could even be alive. No fish, no feeding. Will they die soon?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't see snails causing that. Did you ever see ammonia?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I don't see snails causing that. Did you ever see ammonia?


Nope. Eco-complete _does_ say it has bacteria...

Or maybe my tank is magical? <.<

Edit: Part of plants are decomposing... Ex. The Vals. That might be causing the Nitrites.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> I'm guessing the plants and the snails pooping.
> 
> I also found this:
> 
> ...


The population will be self correcting just that at first there are lots and lots eggs that hatch. After addinf fish sanils will starve and the fish will eat the eggs. I think. Anyrate the population will be only a few in a year.

The 1 day nitrIte spike and initial 3 week nitrate spike are common in my tanks. At least the 1 or 2 times I have actually measured them. I think what happens is there are ammonia and nitrates from various sources like tap water, substrate, decorations and on. The live plants prefer to consume the ammonia for nitrogen and therefore don't consume the nitrates. But the aerobic bacteria is still present and starts consuming ammonia producing nitrItes. Hence nitrItes can show up even though you never see measureable ammonia. With very low bioload the bacteria builds up in a day to fully consume the nitrItes. When the bacteria if fully built up the bacteria and not the plants is consuming the ammonia and the plants are forced to use nitrAtes for nitrogen. At that point nitrates drop down to unmeasureable levels.

During the first "cycle" process (with one unfed fish) I do get very small 1 day ammonia spike. Like less that .5 PPM at most. Followed by a 1-2ppm nitrIte spike that lasts one day also. I also get similiar spikes when I start the very light feeding. And again that was the 1-2 times I actually measured these things.

What I did notice before measuring is that if I fed that first fish I always lost it on the 5th day just like clock work. The replacement fish always lived. So what I did one time was just not feed that first fish and to my surprise it lived. along with his girlfriend I added a week later.

So all this is just what worked and works for me.


and worth at most .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Okay. I'll trust the plants. :3
> 
> I'll check the water again in a week.


Hopefully you'll be able to post here in a week:


Pigeonfish's future post said:


> dern it worked



*old dude


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

dern it worked



> Ammonia: 0 ppm
> Nitrite: 0 ppm
> Nitrates: below 5ppm, between the yellow-orange spectrum


...i'm gonna have to change my title to beaslbob believer now. *r2

Here's the tank today:



Anacharis is growing at least at 1cm per day! *J/D*

Vals are doing better, and the Dwarf Hairgrass is sprouting new hairs :3

Crypts are growing bigger, and one of the Anubias is already growing a new leaf. Everything is going well, gonna start adding fish tomorrow. ^-^


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> dern it worked


*r2*r2*r2


pigeonfish said:


> ...i'm gonna have to change my title to beaslbob believer now. *r2
> 
> Here's the tank today:
> 
> ...


Just to be safe and even if you have been using the fishless method I would add a single fish and not feed for a week. This period is extremely critical in establishing the tank. Keeping the bioload low (minumun fish and no feeding) will help the tank mature so that the bacteria and plant combination will keep things safe.

I use a male platy as the fisht fish then a couple of females a week later and start feeding 1 flake per day. In 6 months you will have a tank full of fish and plants with a more or less stable population the will last for years.

And at that point say hubba hubba beaslbob was correct. 


again. *old dude*r2


thanks for posting and glad to see your success. And yes the anacharis do grow very fast which is why I recommend them.

my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Just to be safe and even if you have been using the fishless method I would add a single fish and not feed for a week. This period is extremely critical in establishing the tank. Keeping the bioload low (minumun fish and no feeding) will help the tank mature so that the bacteria and plant combination will keep things safe.
> 
> I use a male platy as the fisht fish then a couple of females a week later and start feeding 1 flake per day.


Yep, I'll be doing this, didn't make it clear... I'm excited to get one fish lol

Thanks a bunch.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Really though, with nothing driving the ammonia, nitrites up, those values will drop on their own, even without plants. The nitrogen cycle on this tank has yet to start. The silent cycle has started I guess since part of that is getting plants in and established. The few snails you have will not be enough to start the cycle, but that is just a guess. You still have to grow the beneficial bacteria in the tank and that is not a very quick process and can only be driven by the presence of ammonia.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Yep, I'll be doing this, didn't make it clear... I'm excited to get one fish lol
> 
> Thanks a bunch.


No. thanks to you.

Ball in your court now awaiting a post in a week. *old dude


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Really though, with nothing driving the ammonia, nitrites up, those values will drop on their own, even without plants. The nitrogen cycle on this tank has yet to start. The silent cycle has started I guess since part of that is getting plants in and established. The few snails you have will not be enough to start the cycle, but that is just a guess. You still have to grow the beneficial bacteria in the tank and that is not a very quick process and can only be driven by the presence of ammonia.





beaslbob said:


> No. thanks to you.
> 
> Ball in your court now awaiting a post in a week. *old dude


Lets see what happens... My guess, is that the tank cycled... for the snails. (even if it's a tiny amount of bioload) When, I add the fish, I might get a small spike and it will cycle again.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It is a near impossibility....without a present ammonia source.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Lets see what happens... *My guess, is that the tank cycled*... for the snails. (even if it's a tiny amount of bioload) When, I add the fish, I might get a small spike and it will cycle again.




IMHO the cycle is never completed. The only questions is whether or not you get dangerous, destabilizing parameter spikes like for ammonia.

The idea is to get the bacteria built up with none of those spikes because of the plant action.

So whether or not bacteria is there, the tank remains safe for fish. And that is the real bottom line.


my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Last week, I added one male Platy to the tank. Today, I added two females. He seems a lot more happy now with the two girlies. He already got it on with one of them... Oh boy. Water params are perfect, if everything goes as planned I should be adding one SA Bumblebee Catfish next week.

I would post pictures but my partner took the camera for their two tanks lol <.<


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Pigeonfish said:


> Last week, I added one male Platy to the tank. Today, I added two females. He seems a lot more happy now with the two girlies. He already got it on with one of them... Oh boy. Water params are perfect, if everything goes as planned I should be adding one SA Bumblebee Catfish next week.
> 
> I would post pictures but my partner took the camera for their two tanks lol <.<


Are you getting low to no ammonia/nitrItes with some nitrates? if so that is normal.

also feed very lightly. like just a flake or two per day.

my .02


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Here are my fishies!

A Red Wag male, and two female Mickey Mouse Platys.

Hopefully getting the SA Bumblebee Catfish next week! :3


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Here is my newest addition to the ten gallon setup:



He or She, is a South American Bumblebee Catfish.


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## FAIRCHILD (Jun 30, 2011)

Looks good!


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

Nice. Hopefully mines turns out this good. I know I got to get more plants but the only spike I got was the spike from my wallet.


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## FAIRCHILD (Jun 30, 2011)

Chillwill007 said:


> but the only spike I got was the spike from my wallet.


We all are lucky enough to get that lol


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

Aint that the truth


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