# Return pumps



## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

I was thinking about 2 return pumps in my sump. Should I put 1 return at the top of the tank and one near the bottom of the tank. If not could someone tell me how to position the returns in the tank?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you are talking about where to outfeed the returns ,they need to break air, or atleast not be deeper then the sump can recover in powerfailure!As far as the return goes into water that much will drain into sump until syphon is broken.
Even with check valves and holes drilled on top of ":durso/mega over flow returns" I would not place returns deeper then sump allows.
If you are talking about pump placement in sump bottom with out a doubt.
Why two pumps and what kind? check out next thread!


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## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

Was given a 450 gph pump and added a 600 gph for a 125 gal tank. Using a 1000 gph overflow.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You want them near the surface of your tank.Aim them wherever you want,but not to deep.
You have to kill the power and start up several times to have any peace in this world!
If you don't know what will happen "meet Mr.Murphy"/"if it can wrong it will"!


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## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

Can I get away with using just the 600 gph pump?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The flow really depends on head pressure?
How far is it from ground(where I assume the sump is) to the top of tank?
This is the head pressure issue.
All pumps are different but the lossin gph per foot of head pressure can be large.
Add to the hieght that every 90 degree elbow equals aprox 1 more foot of hose and a 600 gph pump my return as little as 200 gph at 4'.
10x turnover is pretty high(right up there!) for FW ,but you aren't getting 1,00gph with a 400&600 gph pump,we could hope for 500gph(wishful I think not knowing the head).If they are powerheads you could be even less.


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## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

They are via-aqua submersible pumps with 4' flex hose. The 450 uses a 1/2" dia hose and the 600 has a 3/4" hose. This is for a freshwater Cichlid tank. If this is not enough what would you recommend.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Are the pumps one of these;
ViaAqua: Economy Pumps
ViaAqua: Pumps/powerheads
The links do tell max flow and max head pressure but tell how much the flow is decreased by head.If you are close to max head then pump could be flowing way less then 50%,even as low as 25% of max flow.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/downloads/Via-Aqua-Instructions.pdf
page 5 has a graph on some pumps.The fall off is large(they loose flow very quickly).


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## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

They are the VA 1800 and the VA 2300 with a Aqualine HOB overflow with 2 1.25 tubes and 2 1.25" drains.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I would keep the returns at surface level(breaking the surface) .1 for safety and syphoning issues.2 for maximising flow.If the return is submerged then it has added headpressure from the volume in the tank(the syphon is always in effect ,but the power of the pump overcomes it,don't make the pump over work itself.
With the two running sound like you should have enough flow for filter.Extra circulation can be made up with additional pumps(wave makers or simple power heads).
Keep an eye on tank temp after you have had both pumps running for a couple days.It is not unheard of for "common " pumps to raise tank temp 4-8 degrees above room temp.
I'm all in on dc pumps now.Less electricity,digital flow control and NO heat transfer.
The DC pump thread should still be close to page 1 on board.


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