# Trying to start a 10 gallon, fish keep dying.



## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

So i have a problem. I started a tank 2 weeks ago. Let it run for 36-48 hours and bought 3 fish. 2 guppies and 1 balloon belly molly. an hour after being in the tank, one of the guppies (both were suppose to be males - they look like males!) had babies. Not a bit deal. Waited a bit and took my water to be tested (i can't afford a master test kit). They said my waterr was perfect and i could get a few more fish. Bought 2 red mickey mouse platys. One died a few hours after being in the aquarium (his head turned yellow). Returned him and got a new MM platy. Then the blue guppy died for no apparent reason - he was eating and active and just went belly up and died. Then the two mm platys heads turned yellow and one got fit rot and died with in 2 days of eachother. Very strange. Anyways the balloon belly molly went belly up and died within the hour (he was eating, but not as active as he had been). Not sure what i should do at this point. I have 2 fry left and one guppy. The guppy seems fine but the other fish seemed fine too except the platys. I was going to add plants as was suggested to me on a previous post. I was thinking of adding salt but was told on the post it was bad for plants. So i have no idea what to do next. The fish keep dying and i lost the receipts so its not like i can get my money back. I dont have much money at all since im in school. This was a tank for my 5 yr old and he saved all his pennies to get it started. How am i suppose to cycle with fish if they keep dying on me? I know you can do a fishless cycle with ammonia, but that requires a test kit. Please help, i just want to cycle without constant death


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## JOMA (Jul 23, 2010)

too be honest you put WAY to many fish in right away, im not surprised they all died, sorry. you HAVE to cycle your tank unless you want to keep returning your son's fish.
cycleing isnt all that hard, just try to take your guppy back to the store and do the largest water change possible and pick up 2 zebra danios (they will last the cycle pretty easily) and put them in the tank and just let them be except do a 10%-20% water change each week. after about a month test your water and if its 0 ammonia, 0 nitrITes, and about 10 nitrAte do a water change and go get 2 fish, add them and wait 2 weeks then add 2 more, repeat until your tank is stocked. 

look up cycling with fish, thats how i cycled my 3 tanks and im about to set up another.


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## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

JOMA said:


> too be honest you put WAY to many fish in right away, im not surprised they all died, sorry. you HAVE to cycle your tank unless you want to keep returning your son's fish.
> cycleing isnt all that hard, just try to take your guppy back to the store and do the largest water change possible and pick up 2 zebra danios (they will last the cycle pretty easily) and put them in the tank and just let them be except do a 10%-20% water change each week. after about a month test your water and if its 0 ammonia, 0 nitrITes, and about 10 nitrAte do a water change and go get 2 fish, add them and wait 2 weeks then add 2 more, repeat until your tank is stocked.
> 
> look up cycling with fish, thats how i cycled my 3 tanks and im about to set up another.


I just did a 50% water change last night, you don't think the guppy will survive? She was in the best shape of all the fish i picked up and is still very active and eating.


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## JOMA (Jul 23, 2010)

she might, its just too risky


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Try getting just an ammonia test kit. At least then you can track it. You could get by with just that for a quite a while.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

PinkFlamingo said:


> So i have a problem. I started a tank 2 weeks ago. Let it run for 36-48 hours and bought 3 fish. 2 guppies and 1 balloon belly molly. an hour after being in the tank, one of the guppies (both were suppose to be males - they look like males!) had babies. Not a bit deal. Waited a bit and took my water to be tested (i can't afford a master test kit). They said my waterr was perfect and i could get a few more fish. Bought 2 red mickey mouse platys. One died a few hours after being in the aquarium (his head turned yellow). Returned him and got a new MM platy. Then the blue guppy died for no apparent reason - he was eating and active and just went belly up and died. Then the two mm platys heads turned yellow and one got fit rot and died with in 2 days of eachother. Very strange. Anyways the balloon belly molly went belly up and died within the hour (he was eating, but not as active as he had been). Not sure what i should do at this point. I have 2 fry left and one guppy. The guppy seems fine but the other fish seemed fine too except the platys. I was going to add plants as was suggested to me on a previous post. I was thinking of adding salt but was told on the post it was bad for plants. So i have no idea what to do next. The fish keep dying and i lost the receipts so its not like i can get my money back. I dont have much money at all since im in school. This was a tank for my 5 yr old and he saved all his pennies to get it started. How am i suppose to cycle with fish if they keep dying on me? I know you can do a fishless cycle with ammonia, but that requires a test kit. Please help, i just want to cycle without constant death


Okay, first you put fish in WAY too early. Don't want to criticize but if you learn by what went wrong then it will help for next time. 

The bigger the tank the better. 10gal is small and that makes it harder to keep. The smaller the tank the faster things can change and go bad in it. Next time, I recommend trying for a used aquarium. If you get the full set up (used gravel, filter, tank etc) then you might be able to save enough of the benefical bacteria from that tank to skip cycling the tank when you get it home. The key to that would be to save the water as much as possible. Keep the water in the filter in the filter and keep the gravel wet until set up. 

Anyway, what to do for now: Don't get anymore fish. You might be able to make it through the cycle with the guppy still alive but it's just as likely that he might die. If you want to cycle with fish I suggest a Betta. They are so resilient and if they don't fit with your aquarium after cycling they can be moved to a bowl with no filter or heater. DO NOT over feed. This is the biggest thing that you have to be careful about. Anything that the guppy doesn't eat within 2 or 3 minutes remove from the tank right away. Feed him 1 flake at a time if you have to to try to ensure no waste is left in the tank. Keep a close eye on him so that you can make sure if he starts to act funny you will know. You might not be able to save him if he does but you might be able to see a correlation between his demise and something else going on with your tank. 

Go back to the fish store in 2 or 3 weeks and get them to test your water again. Find out what they are testing the water for precisely and exactly what the results are. You want to know the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. In order to add more fish to the tank you want the ammonia and nitrites to read 0 and you want some nitrates to be present. When you get those readings you are ready to add more fish. Again over feeding is still a HUGH no no then and only add fish 1 at a time with at least a week or two in between to make sure everything is still okay with them. 

PS You can do fish less cycling. I am cycling 2 tanks right now. I have the filter and the heater running in both and am adding 2 flakes of fish food per day. That's providing a source of ammonia when it breaks down and will hopefully not too long, lead to nitrates.


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*If this were my 10g tank and if I were to cycle this tank with fish, I would only use two-three fish with 20% water changes every three days. 

A master kit does indeed cost a lot. Im guessing you can only get an ammonia and nitrate liquid test kit. You dont have to have pH and nitrite. You need ammonia, to measure the ammonia toxin level and nitrate to see if your tank has finished cycling. No way to tell if your tank has finished cycling with no test kits unless the tank has been running a good half year or more.

I would also personally add fast growing plants to help reduce the ammonia level. All petco and petsmart should have the plant Elodea (Anarcharis). It grows very fast and soaks up the toxins. It is considered a weed near dams and people constantly have to try to kill this plant to prevent blockage. It doesnt need nutrient rich soil either. It can grow in plain gravel or floating. Leave photoperiod 7-9hrs/day*


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## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

Thanks, i just went out and splurged on plants and some API plant supplement- its the only one they had. I am going to add that and start cycleing my 26 gallon with no fish and eventually over the next 1-2 months move any survivors over to that one. Is it safe to use Zeolite crystals with live plants? And in terms of lighting i have a 8000K 15W T8 18" light that came with the tank originally or a flora glo T8, which one is better for plants?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkFlamingo said:


> Thanks, i just went out and splurged on plants and some API plant supplement- its the only one they had. I am going to add that and start cycleing my 26 gallon with no fish and eventually over the next 1-2 months move any survivors over to that one. Is it safe to use Zeolite crystals with live plants? And in terms of lighting i have a 8000K 15W T8 18" light that came with the tank originally or a flora glo T8, which one is better for plants?


*
Be sure the plants are not fake aquatic plants. Ribbon plants and aqua fern die submerged. 

Remember if you are cycling fishless... you need a source of ammonia or else your cycle will never start and must NOT include plants during the cycling. You only add plants if you are cycling WITH fish or after a fishless cycling has been completed. 

I dont know what Zeolite crystals are.

What spectrum and watt is the flora gro? I would go with the one with the most watts and the spectrum closest to 6700K*


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## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

NursePlaty said:


> *
> Be sure the plants are not fake aquatic plants. Ribbon plants and aqua fern die submerged.
> 
> Remember if you are cycling fishless... you need a source of ammonia or else your cycle will never start and must NOT include plants during the cycling. You only add plants if you are cycling WITH fish or after a fishless cycling has been completed.
> ...


This is for the flora glo:
* Ideal for freshwater planted aquariums
* 2800°K bulbs for optimum plant growth
* Emits a warm photosynthetic spectrum to intensify plant color and stimulate plant photosynthesis

The one that came with the tank says its 8000k both have 15w. So i am assuming the one that came with the tank is better?
Also, If i were to do the fishless cycle by adding food could i put the plants in the 26 gallon tank im going to set up, or should i put them in the 10 gallon tank with the guppy and fry?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkFlamingo said:


> This is for the flora glo:
> * Ideal for freshwater planted aquariums
> * 2800°K bulbs for optimum plant growth
> * Emits a warm photosynthetic spectrum to intensify plant color and stimulate plant photosynthesis
> ...


*
I do not know why they said 2800K is for optimum plant growth. They must be drunk or on crack while making that statement. Either that or they are targeting some other odd plant that requires a spectrum of that color. That color is a yellowish color and is probably only used to light up a tank with no benefit of being able to grow plants. The one that came with the tank is best used, the 8000K one. 

If you are doing fishless, dont add plants to it. It will contradict each other. Food releases ammonia, plants suck up ammonia. The bacteria wont be able to grow and multiply if the ammonia that is getting released is getting eaten up by the plants. The plants will do best with the guppy tank for now. *


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## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

NursePlaty said:


> *
> I do not know why they said 2800K is for optimum plant growth. They must be drunk or on crack while making that statement. Either that or they are targeting some other odd plant that requires a spectrum of that color. That color is a yellowish color and is probably only used to light up a tank with no benefit of being able to grow plants. The one that came with the tank is best used, the 8000K one.
> 
> If you are doing fishless, dont add plants to it. It will contradict each other. Food releases ammonia, plants suck up ammonia. The bacteria wont be able to grow and multiply if the ammonia that is getting released is getting eaten up by the plants. The plants will do best with the guppy tank for now. *


lol, i will defiantly be taking that bulb back! I also looked up all the plants i bought prior to opening them and of course all but one of the plants are not suggested for aquariums...pet smart strikes again with their crap! Anyways thank you so much! Where is the best place (for price) to get plants online if i am unable to find any around the city. With a 8000k light, which types of plants is that? Is that considered moderate lighting?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkFlamingo said:


> lol, i will defiantly be taking that bulb back! I also looked up all the plants i bought prior to opening them and of course all but one of the plants are not suggested for aquariums...pet smart strikes again with their crap! Anyways thank you so much! Where is the best place (for price) to get plants online if i am unable to find any around the city. With a 8000k light, which types of plants is that? Is that considered moderate lighting?


*Moderate lighting will be depending on the amount of watts you have. If you have 15W over a 26g tank, its only roughly 0.5wpg. It would still be considered low. Moderate would be around 2-3wpg. 

I like AquariumPlants.com and AquariumGarden.com 
NEVER go to AZgardens. The place is a scam. *


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## PinkFlamingo (Sep 26, 2010)

NursePlaty said:


> *Moderate lighting will be depending on the amount of watts you have. If you have 15W over a 26g tank, its only roughly 0.5wpg. It would still be considered low. Moderate would be around 2-3wpg.
> 
> I like AquariumPlants.com and AquariumGarden.com
> NEVER go to AZgardens. The place is a scam. *


wonderful, thanks i will go look at those sites now.  Do you know of any 18" flo. bulbs that are over 15w?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkFlamingo said:


> wonderful, thanks i will go look at those sites now.  Do you know of any 18" flo. bulbs that are over 15w?


*Im not really the person to be asking that lol. I make my own fixtures cause its cheaper for me. I use screw in 6500K bulbs, not the tubes .*


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## katiesoup50 (Jan 27, 2012)

i cant help much on the scientific side of things but i can tell you that you should keep trying and never give up, it will work out,, i am a four month owner who has delveloped the nickname "fish killer" throughout my whole famliy and friends, i hate it but cant blaim them because of the 14 fish in heavan proving them right....opps.....use and sign of stress you can to help them to try and find a problem and if not it might come down to having the right fish or not...hope it works out well for you!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I would say to beware of the advice you were given. You could have cycled with the original fish, quite easily, but the added fish killed it. Now, you go slow and steady, and it will be fine.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Maybe just me, but I would hope this person figured things out by now. Either that or its an 18-month issue.


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