# Help, FlameAngel is dying!



## Clarky35gal (Dec 27, 2012)

My new Flame Angelfish started circeling to the right this afternoon, occationally swimming backwards, going against the rocks. I guess he seemed itchy or maybe neurologic, later rasing around and occationally hitting his head on rocks. I thought maybe it's ick (no spots or scrapes on him except a little beaten lower finn), so I placed him into 83F treated freshwater for 4 min and returned him to my SW tank and turned the temp higher (80ish). He continued the circeling and occationally resting upside down against a rock in the bottom of the tank. 1 or 2 hrs ago I kept finding him against the filter inlet. I made him a cave but he somehow keeps making it out and drifts around until back at the inlet. He isn't eating, well he is too disoriented to eat. Is there anything to be done to save him? What could cause this? Are my other fish in danger (clowns, blue tang, puffer, or the shrimps/crabs)?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Im guessing this fish is realitively new? Some fish will acclimate, some won't. Doesn't sounds really good though. Seen that portion to many times. Sorry to hear.


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## Clarky35gal (Dec 27, 2012)

I got him on Wed and he did really well, eating, swimming w/ the other fishes ... Could puffer fish poison do that?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Doubtful. He didn't acclimate. How was he acclimated to your tank?


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## Clarky35gal (Dec 27, 2012)

I introduced them by emptying both bags (Angel and Puffer) into a styrofoam bucket, added 8 oz water from my tank 4 times, then transferred w/ a net into my tank. This is what the guy at the store recommended, he said not to use triggeling method or smaller additions of water for longer time since he thinks the frequent additions of smaller amounts cause more stress. The fish looked really healthy for 2 1/2 days, now the angel is hanging off the filter inlet for 1-2 hrs.


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## ionix (Oct 11, 2012)

Clarky35gal said:


> I introduced them by emptying both bags (Angel and Puffer) into a styrofoam bucket, added 8 oz water from my tank 4 times, then transferred w/ a net into my tank. This is what the guy at the store recommended, he said not to use triggeling method or smaller additions of water for longer time since he thinks the frequent additions of smaller amounts cause more stress. The fish looked really healthy for 2 1/2 days, now the angel is hanging off the filter inlet for 1-2 hrs.


Just use drip acclimation. Many marine biologists use this and recommend it.  I used your same method because I didn't have a drip line yet (local LFS had it on order), and i think i killed a couple fish. I haven't had a single death since. $3.99, can't go wrong. And I just put the fish in a bucket with old water, turn on the drip, leave it. It is really understandable how people do this for hours (no work to it).

I can see what he might be thinking, that it may mix the solution better. But drip acclimation creates a slow flow, mixing the solution slowly and a lot less harshly.

It is strange, but I wouldn't doubt Reef. It may have survived for a little while but perhaps it caused some irreversible organ damage. Imagine if the way he said was wrong and it occurred two times, two bad acclimates. That isn't good.

And I'd euthanize the fish.. I don't know about others, but once a fish is like that, it's usually past the point of no return. I've never been successful with like-deaths (earlier mentioned), and I was pretty crafty (using a breeder, some soft plastic, and a pump). To say the least, I was aiming to practically force water (it wasn't fast moving) to pass the front of the fish in an effort to create a respiratory support. I have no idea if it was successful, though it definitely wasn't what killed it.


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## Clarky35gal (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks everybody! Like expected, he didn't make it. How do you euthanize a fish (in case I need to in the future). I was about to place it into the snow yesterday but didn't want to cause him a worse experience than what he was going through already.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I use a cup(cotainer for larger fish) with ice cubes.I let the water chill good for about 4-5 minutes and then place fish in chilled water.Fish will pass in less than 10 seconds.Seems like the most humane way to pass ill fish.Sorry for your loss.


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## ladyonyx (Apr 20, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your angel. In reference to fish euthanasia, The ice cube method works quickly for sure. Clove oil also is a good option. A few drops in a cup of tank water will put the fish to sleep (I've actually used clove oil to knock out my puffers and clip their teeth down with a lot of success) and then I put the unconscious fish in the freezer. Sucks to have to do these things, but every once in a while you just know they're not going to make it and ending things quickly and humanely is the best option.


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## Clarky35gal (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks I will try that if needed. 
Is there another more hardy species of fish that is small and orange and that would go well with semiaggressive fish like my Clakii Clowns, Puffer, and Blue Tang? I don't have coral but also no lid on my 35 (maybe 38) gal tank (so no jumpers).


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## ionix (Oct 11, 2012)

Clarky35gal said:


> Thanks I will try that if needed.
> Is there another more hardy species of fish that is small and orange and that would go well with semiaggressive fish like my Clakii Clowns, Puffer, and Blue Tang? I don't have coral but also no lid on my 35 (maybe 38) gal tank (so no jumpers).


Just one note onto the ice + larger fish is that the larger the creature is, the longer it will take to kill. To the point of no longer falling under the definition of euthanization. Anything larger than 3"-4", I personally feel, should be only euthanized via clove oil.

I cannot think of anything besides gobies (which I am not even sure about in this case) but take a look on liveaquaria, they have a pretty large database with pics/videos of the fish. Of course plus the relevant information (temperaments)


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Royal Gramma is a beautiful fish that will dig your caves,and I've never had one jump.
On the flame;I don't think they are being properly captured as many including myself have had trouble with them.20 years ago I had one and it lived for 3-4 years no problems.I got one last year that ended up with popeye(one eye),cured himself in a month,then re-infected a month later only to lose his eye completely.He lived another 1-2 months and then eventually died.He was the only fish I ever named(lefty).They are cheaper today then 20 years ago and that fact alone put them on a short list of tings to me ,and since they can't make them cheaper(like everything else)I feel they are capturing them incorrectly(possibly with cyanide or some other method with permanent bad effects).
I won't get another.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Royal Gramma is a beautiful fish that will dig your caves,and I've never had one jump.
> On the flame;I don't think they are being properly captured as many including myself have had trouble with them.20 years ago I had one and it lived for 3-4 years no problems.I got one last year that ended up with popeye(one eye),cured himself in a month,then re-infected a month later only to lose his eye completely.He lived another 1-2 months and then eventually died.He was the only fish I ever named(lefty).They are cheaper today then 20 years ago and that fact alone put them on a short list of tings to me ,and since they can't make them cheaper(like everything else)I feel they are capturing them incorrectly(possibly with cyanide or some other method with permanent bad effects).
> I won't get another.


Your Flame didnt' have Popeye, he had Boo-Boo eye. They get it from banging themselves on the rocks. Thats how he lost it, and was able to clear it up so fast the first time. Popeye tends to affect both eyes.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Your Flame didnt' have Popeye, he had Boo-Boo eye. They get it from banging themselves on the rocks. Thats how he lost it, and was able to clear it up so fast the first time. Popeye tends to affect both eyes.


I will respectfully disagree.
The same literature thats says one eye COULD be damage says that the issue also strikes only one eye.
Without pulling up links I'll just say sometimes people get infections in one ear sometimes two.I believe they are caused by the same issue.
This is not to dispute what Madness says as his info is accurate and very useful.Many links say one eye COULD be damage,they don't say it has to be.I don't doubt that certain fish are more hyper,nervous or have darting type behavior,but I do think these fish in particular are not being collected properly.
Do I have any proof of this ?No.But I keep fish,have not had a disease or death in my saltwater besides CASS(constant air shock syndrome{they jumped out!}).All my fish are well ,not stressed(salt tanks aren't even in an active room of my house),fed well and water is maintained to the highest level I possibly can.
I don't feel that I could be cofortable purchasing another flame even though they are about $20 less than 20 years ago.$20,anything else go down 33% in price over the last 20 years?
Cyanide fishing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Okey, I got ya. But heres where my info will point you in the right direction as to what it was. The eye in question on your fish got milky white, slightly bug eye, when you see Popeye, you freak out. The milky white is the tissue trying to heal itself. When your fish did it the first time, it was to the same effect, took 2 weeks and was healed, the next time, he damaged to to much to heal. In the Boo-Boo injury, you can't see the eye, in Popeye, you can, and they are extremely bulging out of the sockets, boo-boos bulge some, but only from the injury healing itself.
Now, how many reads did you find that the fish lost its eye due to healing? Not popping out of its head, but from healing itself? if yoiu would have looked at the fish closely, I bet you would have seen inside its head, but on profile, you would have seen the clear bubble as if they eye should have been there.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Eye completely out of socket both times.But yeah, it always seemed like a "hollow"area(eye socket)where his eye was,it didn't close up but remained a "crator" for weeks.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I stand corrected.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It never looked good for him even the first time,and I was very suprised to see his recovery(little did I know it was temporary).I almost thought I could see a "gas bubble" behind the eye.
Now my hippo tang recently had boo boo eye,and yes it was only "swollen " a litttle and turned milky(the healing).You(madness) and I had discussed my disbelief in the injury aspect,but I will say I think he ran into something.He is a trouble maker and often starts stuff that he needs to quickly escape from.He healed well in like 2-3 weeks without any treatment.I hope he learned his lesson!
The angel was always peaceful for the most part.Poor "lefty"(I have never named any of my fish but he earned it).


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

back to Clarky 35,did your fish act like this?Cyanide Flame Angelfish.MPG - YouTube


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