# [Growning] Guppy fry



## Bianco

Last November i got a new 52L fresh water tank after 1-2 weeks I introduced 3 bottom feeders, 1 molly and 4 guppies (2 male,2female).

After a week, one of the bought pregnant female guppy had 20 little fry and 5 of them were eaten/died. 

15 remained alive and it is now March (4 months later) and the fries are still 1.5cm.. is it normal to grow so slow? 

I am feeding them once*"http://www.coxwellaquatics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/coxwellaquatic/images/novo-grano-mix-refill.jpg"* and twice *"http://web4.dev1.eifel-online.com/fileadmin/downloads/web/00730_sera-vipan-baby_50ml_d.jpg"*

Also, they always seems to go up and down 1/4 of the tank and stay near the surface since they were born(before in the breeding net)

Temperature: 24-26deg
Water Change: once a month 50% 
Sponge filters: clean every 3 weeks
Water Visual: is clear

Also i got the API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strip(the bottle one: *http://www.petsworld.my/images/201008/goods_img/111_P_1282315456439.jpg*)
No3: 80ppm(mg/L)
No2: 0ppm(mg/L)
PH: 7.0
KH: 40ppm(mg/L)
GH: 180ppm(mg/L)

are those readings good?

Thanks in advance,
Bianco 

PS: i hope i posted in the correct area.


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## coralbandit

NitrAtes are high ,should shoot to keep them under 40.More waterchanges will solve nitrAte issue and help fry grow.
In order to grow fry faster you should change at least 50% weekly.
Rinse sponge in waterchange bucket(dirty tank water) at least every 2 weeks if not weekly.


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## Bianco

Thanks for your prompt reply.

How can water changes change the way fry can grow? 
Also nitrates are high is because of overfeeding?

Also regarding water changes i usually fill up 10 bottles of 2.5l each, leave them for 1-2 days with small drops of Water Condition and Liquid Biological Filter.


is that good?


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## coralbandit

Nitrates might just be high because you don't change water often enough.They(nitrAtes ) are the end product of a cycled filter and basically are only removed by waterchanges.
Changing water dramatically enhances fry growth just like fresh air leads to healthier people.
I feed my fry heavy (that will definately help growth),therefore need to change water more.
I change 10% daily or 25% every other day(depending on my schedule) and my swords are well over 1 inch (alphas being 1 1/2-2 inches) in aprox 3 months.


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## Bianco

Wow ok than  also what is the maximum number of times to feed my fry each day? because the bottle says 6 times a day and i think thats alot...


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## coralbandit

If your willing to change water often enough then ya, you could feed them as much as you want.Try to make sure they eat it all in 3 minutes, but some days I feed my fry 5-6 times.I almost always feed them right after waterchange(kind of how dosers do fertalizer,in that they do 50% water change and add ferts.)Most keepers IMO almost starve their fish in order to not have to do as much maintenece,but in nature,they would peck and feed ALL DAY LONG.
The fry especially need as many feeding as possible and clean water all the time.If you had fed 6x daily and changed 10% every day or 25% every other I dare say your fry would be at least twice their size!(possibly breeding already)


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## Bianco

Ok.
Than i will prepare lots of 2.5l of water and prepare half for everyday.

I also got 2 more concerns:

*Gravel Cleaner*
-I bought this gravel cleaner (NEW Aquarium Gravel Cleaner Syphon Fish Tank Vacuum S10 | eBay)
-The gravel gets sucked up the pump and dumped out
-I have set a small net between the pipe and the pump so that the gravel doesnt suck up.. but the pump keeps the gravel stuck to the net i did and therefore i have to switch on and off the pump for the gravel to fall down again..
- Could it be i am not using it correctly? 


*Water Type*
-Is it bad to directly insert water from water tap to the aquarium
-Do i have to let it settle? My friend said that Malta's Water has high hardness and may contain cloreen (dont know how to write it^^) .


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## coralbandit

Using a de-chlorinator(prime by sea chem,or aqua nova by kordon )are very important.Chlorine evaporates eventually(disapates in to air),but how fast is a random guess now adays.Also some water from municipal water supplies(city,town) have chloramine which does not evaporate.Water chemistry(hardness ,pH...) can change or settle as you said over 24 hours.A bubbler or circulating pump in container can help your new water,but you are not preparing large volumes(I have 64 gallons(236L) on hand all the time)so possibly letting it come to room temp and have open top(no lid on container)for 24 hours will be enough.
I don't have a power vacumm ,so I would try to vacumm without the pump if possible.If your set up won't work without pump regular vacums(no pump)are pretty cheap.
Although vacumming the gravel is good and fairly important,if your going to change water regulary you don't have to vacumm every time,as just removing water(with nitrates)to be replaced by clean fresh is still better than not.
If water with chlorine or chloramine are used you stand a good chance of doing damage to your biological colonies in your filter so try to get some kind of "water conditioner".


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## Bianco

I have sera bio nitrivec (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...4-BKJuCJgj_pjoHXVUtUWzjtlJ_q3G9cvbIemsDjO2Ppw)
and
sera aquatan water conditioner (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...VETlTYGugWDOEMfOCG_YsEto54GKDQT4p3nI-hRcBxljg)

Will those suffice?


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## coralbandit

The sera aquatan water conditioner will remove chlorine along with any heavy metals in water supply.Use according to directions.


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## inkmaker

Bianco said:


> Last November i got a new 52L fresh water tank after 1-2 weeks I introduced 3 bottom feeders, 1 molly and 4 guppies (2 male,2female).
> 
> After a week, one of the bought pregnant female guppy had 20 little fry and 5 of them were eaten/died.
> 
> 15 remained alive and it is now March (4 months later) and the fries are still 1.5cm.. is it normal to grow so slow?


You are not changing near enough water. They are at the top gasping for Oxygen!

50% once a week or more is not enough. If you want good healthy fish you must flush the toilet more often. As much as you feed, your tank water is a cesspool of decaying food and Guppy feces. No one said anything about the hormones left behind????


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## Bianco

inkmaker said:


> You are not changing near enough water. They are at the top gasping for Oxygen!
> 
> 50% once a week or more is not enough. If you want good healthy fish you must flush the toilet more often. As much as you feed, your tank water is a cesspool of decaying food and Guppy feces. No one said anything about the hormones left behind????


What about them?

i just did a 50%water change this second.

From now on i will do 25% water change every other day (1 break and other day water change of 25%)

Will that suffice?


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## coralbandit

As fish grow they release hormones that can stunt other fry growth .There are many things in the water we can't or don't test for.The hormones are release by the alpha(larger faster growing) fry.They do many things besides possibly stunt growth like keep less dominant live bearers from reaching sexual maturity.Often livebearers appearing to be female will change to male once they are out of the presence of the alpha.
25% every other day will be good and I honestly think you'll notice the improvement.
Inkmaker is a very source of information on many water issues.


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## inkmaker

*coralbandit's* information is very good and worth understanding. The fish you have, Guppies, are found in very large bodies of water or slowly moving streams. They have their water continuously changed moment by moment. They never face 1 part per million Chlorine or Chloramine, Your tap water probably has one or the other. Don't kill your fish with Chlorine. It must be chemically removed. There are lots of treatments to remove the Chloramine, but just letting it set or bubbling air through it for several days won't remove the compound. It is not a gas and doesn't act like one. It is very stable and doesn't just go away.

_Change as much water as often as you can_ is a very good program to follow. You can set up water changes with as much at a time as you are able to *easily do*. Make it easy on yourself and you will be most likely to follow the plan. Just don't expect great things to happen in a toilet that never gets flushed.

Charles H


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## Bianco

inkmaker said:


> *coralbandit's* information is very good and worth understanding. The fish you have, Guppies, are found in very large bodies of water or slowly moving streams. They have their water continuously changed moment by moment. They never face 1 part per million Chlorine or Chloramine, Your tap water probably has one or the other. Don't kill your fish with Chlorine. It must be chemically removed. There are lots of treatments to remove the Chloramine, but just letting it set or bubbling air through it for several days won't remove the compound. It is not a gas and doesn't act like one. It is very stable and doesn't just go away.
> 
> _Change as much water as often as you can_ is a very good program to follow. You can set up water changes with as much at a time as you are able to *easily do*. Make it easy on yourself and you will be most likely to follow the plan. Just don't expect great things to happen in a toilet that never gets flushed.
> 
> Charles H



Following the above.....giving them the conditioner & liquid biological filter is enough? or should i buy new chemicals?

When i bought the aquarium last November the pet store manager gave me the above 2 chemicals because he knows the water condition in our island.

Thanks for your help.


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## coralbandit

There are some who add bacteria (bio nitrivec)to there water during waterchanges.I don't and if your filter is mature and maintained properly(never rise bio media in anything but existing tank water,which should not be necessary often at all if at all) you should not need it.The conditioner(aquatan) is necessary for every waterchange as it removes chlorine and heavy metals(toxic to fish and bio filter).
If you want to use the bacteria it should not create any problems,but it's your money.


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## inkmaker

sera aquatan water conditioner looks to be a Chlorine remover. I don't know what the other stuff is. If it has been working since November, I would continue to use it. If you can adjust your water temperature so that it is the same as the water in the tank, connect a garden hose to your faucet add the water conditioner to the drained tank - you may fill the tank with tap water. Just be sure the conditioner is in the tank before adding new water and the temperature is the same. A slow fill from the faucet so you can manage the water temperature is best. Unplug the tank heater while you are doing water changes. Fresh water may crack the heater housing.

Charles H


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## Bianco

coralbandit said:


> There are some who add bacteria (bio nitrivec)to there water during waterchanges.I don't and if your filter is mature and maintained properly(never rise bio media in anything but existing tank water,which should not be necessary often at all if at all) you should not need it.The conditioner(aquatan) is necessary for every waterchange as it removes chlorine and heavy metals(toxic to fish and bio filter).
> If you want to use the bacteria it should not create any problems,but it's your money.


yes the biofilter is the BIo nitrivec Sera that i am using.
Ok than ill use it till the bottle is empty as the manual says 2.5 cups(bottle cup xD) for every 50-60l..and 1.5cups for the water conditioner aquatan Sera for every 50-60L.

Also above that should i use any other item?



inkmaker said:


> sera aquatan water conditioner looks to be a Chlorine remover. I don't know what the other stuff is. If it has been working since November, I would continue to use it. If you can adjust your water temperature so that it is the same as the water in the tank, connect a garden hose to your faucet add the water conditioner to the drained tank - you may fill the tank with tap water. Just be sure the conditioner is in the tank before adding new water and the temperature is the same. A slow fill


Ok than i have 2 problems

1st how can i get the water the same? 
2nd i dump 2.5L of bottles after each other.. did not fill it slowly.. do i use a pipe next time?


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## Bianco

inkmaker said:


> sera aquatan water conditioner looks to be a Chlorine remover. I don't know what the other stuff is. If it has been working since November, I would continue to use it. If you can adjust your water temperature so that it is the same as the water in the tank, connect a garden hose to your faucet add the water conditioner to the drained tank - you may fill the tank with tap water. Just be sure the conditioner is in the tank before adding new water and the temperature is the same. A slow fill


Ok than i have 2 problems

1st how can i get the water the same? 
2nd i dump 2.5L of bottles after each other.. did not fill it slowly.. do i use a pipe next time?


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## inkmaker

Bianco said:


> Ok than i have 2 problems
> 
> 1st how can i get the water the same?
> 2nd i dump 2.5L of bottles after each other.. did not fill it slowly.. do i use a pipe next time?


Okay, maybe I went too far. I use my bathroom faucet which has hot and cold water that mixes together at the faucet so that the water coming out is the perfect temperature. I have a faucet adaptor that I use to connect a garden hose to and I have a 50 foot hose I can use to fill tanks in my basement. 


Stick with 2.5 liter bottles if it is easier. Just make it easy on yourself to change water so you will do it often.

Charles H


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## Bianco

inkmaker said:


> Okay, maybe I went too far. I use my bathroom faucet which has hot and cold water that mixes together at the faucet so that the water coming out is the perfect temperature. I have a faucet adaptor that I use to connect a garden hose to and I have a 50 foot hose I can use to fill tanks in my basement.
> 
> 
> Stick with 2.5 liter bottles if it is easier. Just make it easy on yourself to change water so you will do it often.
> 
> Charles H


ok than  thanks alot for your help.. it seems that i have the last question ^^

What is "normal" pop for guppies?


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## tbub1221

coralbandit said:


> Nitrates might just be high because you don't change water often enough.They(nitrAtes ) are the end product of a cycled filter and basically are only removed by waterchanges.
> Changing water dramatically enhances fry growth just like fresh air leads to healthier people.
> I feed my fry heavy (that will definately help growth),therefore need to change water more.
> I change 10% daily or 25% every other day(depending on my schedule) and my swords are well over 1 inch (alphas being 1 1/2-2 inches) in aprox 3 months.


dont think i could have said it better myself .
I have hatcheries with only fry in them and i do 30-40% about every 3rd day now but did a 50% each other day at times of high stocking. 
its a common misconception that if the ph,ammonia, etc all looks good that the water is healthy.
that is the case , but its highly recycled and fish need and appreciate the new water (not just adding a 1/2 bucket a week but actually removing it and replacing it).
Feed the babys heavy and they will grow also get the no3 out of the water with water changes and you will be in good shape. :fish5::fish10:


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## coralbandit

If pop is how often do they give birth then, livebearers give birth aprox. every 28 days .If you are questioning stock, 2-3 females per male keeps most happy and from being constantly harrassed.


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## Bianco

coralbandit said:


> If pop is how often do they give birth then, livebearers give birth aprox. every 28 days .If you are questioning stock, 2-3 females per male keeps most happy and from being constantly harrassed.


Sorry but i meant poop "s**t" xD 

Reason i am asking because some forums and thread 
-say just small strings 
-some say that it is just clear.

also now that u mentioned it they have never given birth since the owner gave them to me pregnant. 

might be the cause of not alot of water changes or stressfull fish?

This is the current status of my aquarium after 4 hours water change 
No3: 80ppm(mg/L)
No2: 0ppm(mg/L)
PH: 7.0
KH: 40ppm(mg/L)
GH: 180ppm(mg/L)

all the same No3 still 80.

also here is a picture  http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2871/20130311195147.jpg


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## coralbandit

Your fish look healthy in picture,nice tank.Your No3 is still at least 2x higher than you or your fish would like.A 50% change should cut No3 in half(it's simple math that you replaxe half your water and half the bad stuff is taken out.I would change 50% today(try to get it close to tank temp),and half again tomorrow(or try for half two days in a row)and your No3 should end up around 20-30.Then you can do scheduled changes that will give good results.
Charles(inkmaker) will probably be better on the poop thing as he knows all about internal parasites(has the medication many here have used,that only he could provide).


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## Bianco

I just did a 50% change today at around 4-5 hours ago:/ and it seems the same.. let me do the 2nd 50% tommorrow and lets hope the no3 changes ^^ thanks for help.


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## Bianco

Good news no3 is currently at 30-40 instead of 80... it is working 

Now my main concern is that i have Juwel Rekord 600 aquarium and the temperature is set at 26-28 degrees (50W Heater) and the temperature is always around 21-23 degrees.

What may be the main problem. I check the pump and it seems to work find and i cannot fit a bigger pump because its appropriate to the design. 

Any suggestions or did any of you have this problem?
http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/imagehosting/56724fc95feb9ee71.jpg


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## coralbandit

Did the heater just stop heating correctly or has it always been "off"?


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## Bianco

coralbandit said:


> Did the heater just stop heating correctly or has it always been "off"?


2 weeks ago i though that the heater was "faulty" and therefore i went to the local fish store for a replacement but the same thing happened.

As i can understand the heater than were both working fine and the problem may be the airflow from the preinstalled filter unit.
It could be that the water in the filter is getting heated and therefore the thermostat is disconnecting power to stop heat. The pump is also working fine as i disconnected it from the aquarium inserted it in a bucket and injected white colour to the water so check if the pump is sucking up and pushing out water. 

Yesterday i had the aquiarum at 23.5deg all of a sudden i found the aquiarum back to 21.2deg. The difference between yesterday and today is that Yesterday the the island temperature was at 18 degrees and today its at 11 degrees.

Should i install another heater outside the preinstalled filter unit?


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## Bianco

also should i remove/rinse the gravel or will it change my biological gravel(or whats it called) as i am going to try to change the looks of my tank and changing the colour.


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## coralbandit

you could use a heater in the aquarium if you wanted and that may help.You could also turn heater you are using up til it gets the tank to the temp you want.If the outside temp effects your tank then you should probably just put another one in tank to help avoid flucuations.
If you are going to remove your gravel to change it then make sure you don't mess with your filter at all for at least two weeks as that will be the area with the proper bacteria still active and alive for your whole tank.


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## Bianco

coralbandit said:


> you could use a heater in the aquarium if you wanted and that may help.You could also turn heater you are using up til it gets the tank to the temp you want.If the outside temp effects your tank then you should probably just put another one in tank to help avoid flucuations.
> If you are going to remove your gravel to change it then make sure you don't mess with your filter at all for at least two weeks as that will be the area with the proper bacteria still active and alive for your whole tank.


Thanks for the Gravel.

I cant just turn up the heat because than it senses that it is at the specific tempreatue and the thermostat will cutoff much sooner than before.

Than i just need to add another heat inside. 

Regarding the gravel , i have just cleaned the Filter this week and therefore will allow a month or so before touching the gravel.


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## Bianco

i have set my 50W extra heater at 32De for more than 24hrs and the tank is still at 23.7deg oO is that normal?


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## coralbandit

a guide to heaters that came with my aqueon pro says;based on a room temp of 68-72 degrees;
10g(40 l) with 50w can only raise water 10degrees above room temp,if you need to raise tank 15 degrees then it recommends a 100w.
In a 20g(80 l) you would need the 100 w to raise even 10 degrees above room temp.
So I would try to get a 100w heater and place it in tank.
I'm just guessing but from your picture it looks like all the filter and heater are in the hood,and POSSIBLY the heat from the light is tellling the heater that the water is warm.Most lights generate heat,which would cause your heater to believe the temp is up to where you want regardless.
I will also add for the price a glass bodied mecury thermometer would be a good investment as thermometers are just about as cheaply made as heaters.
I hope you don't have a stick on the outside of glass thermometer as they often can not overcome a low room temp enough to accurately read tank temp.


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## rtmaston

i agree 28 days is very close.i have 3 female is 28 days to the day and some that goes a few days later but 28 days is a good gide line to go by.good luck


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## Bianco

coralbandit said:


> a guide to heaters that came with my aqueon pro says;based on a room temp of 68-72 degrees;
> 10g(40 l) with 50w can only raise water 10degrees above room temp,if you need to raise tank 15 degrees then it recommends a 100w.
> In a 20g(80 l) you would need the 100 w to raise even 10 degrees above room temp.
> So I would try to get a 100w heater and place it in tank.
> I'm just guessing but from your picture it looks like all the filter and heater are in the hood,and POSSIBLY the heat from the light is tellling the heater that the water is warm.Most lights generate heat,which would cause your heater to believe the temp is up to where you want regardless.
> I will also add for the price a glass bodied mecury thermometer would be a good investment as thermometers are just about as cheaply made as heaters.
> I hope you don't have a stick on the outside of glass thermometer as they often can not overcome a low room temp enough to accurately read tank temp.


Ouch.. My thermometer is this (Aquatic Stick On Thermometer Temperature Control Tropical Fish Safety Safe | eBay i need to buy a new one. 

Regarding the Heater i cannot just add 100W heater as it wont fit with my fixed filter as i had already checked it out.

I think the real problem is that the heater is in the filter and its getting hot quickly as the flow of water is slow. Therefore the heater thinks that water is at the right temperature which cause it do switch off.

I guess the "heater problem" is currently underway as from the last time the heater was at 32deg and i pushed it down to 26deg since it was at 24.5 deg.

With the internal filter heater at 24 deg cutout and the outside heater at 26deg cutout the temperature seems to be constantly at 23.5-24deg.


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