# Fin nipping



## SueK (May 25, 2012)

I have a very established tank and don't add occupants often, but recently made what I thought were thought out acquisitions.

I have a 46 bowfront, and until recently I had:

7 Dwarf Neon Rainbows (The river piggies)
2 Mollies
1 Butterfly loach
2 Dwarf Chain (sid) loaches

These have all been together undisturbed for a couple of years. All along I've contemplating adding an Angelfish and more chain loaches and recently took the plunge.

I picked up 2 angels and maybe a week later, 4 dwarf chain loaches. I messed up and the loaches brought ick in, so I have the temp elevated and treating with half doses of Maracide (and I lost a loach, for a new total of 4)

I assume this adds a stress level.

I just noticed the tips of my Angels fins are nipped. The bigger of the two has nips and I'm pretty confident the smaller wouldn't do it, so it's the river pigs or the loaches.

I've read plenty of times that I can get away with the rainbows and Angels together. It's hard to imagine the loaches being the issue, as my original two certainky never were, but I'm told they can be aggressive (I sort of thought the idea was funny, given the 2 I had).

Anyway, do I need to panic and get my Angels out of there, or do I wait and see? The nips are very minor right now. I'm tempted to wait until after the ick treatment is finished (just put in day 5 treatment) and see if it calms down when I can bring everything back to normal.

I added melafix in hopes of not having those nips turn into anything worse. I'm not happy about all the chemicals going in and look forward to a good water change over the weekend.

I don't have a second tank and really don't want to get rid of any of my fish. I like what the Angels bring to the tank and my river piggies are certainly NOT going anywhere. I'd let the loaches go if they're a problem, though I have no idea how I'd ever get them out of there!

What do you think?


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

*Re: Fin Nipping*

Hello Sue...

I'd get the parasites under control and then deal with the fin nipping problem, if that's what's happening. The problem sounds minor. The parasites are more important, so deal with them.

The meds are going to stress your fish and can kill good bacteria and don't do your aquatic plants any good, for sure.

The best thing to do is to keep the tank water very clean by removing and replacing at least half of it every 2 to 3 days and vacuum the substrate where possible. There will be parasites living in the gravel.

Get the water temp up to about 86 degrees and add a small HOB power filter to get more oxygen into the water for the fish.

Keep the lights off in the tank and the room too. The "Ich" parasites locate a fish by site.

Cut way back on feeding. Sick fish aren't very hungry and you don't need extra food around to foul the tank water. If you feed anything, then feed a little minced garlic to your fish. This is a natural antibotic and has a high nutrient content.

Get some standard aquarium salt into your replacement water too. Add a little more than a teaspoon of it to every 5 gallons of your new, treated tap water and make the new water a little warmer than normal.

Do these steps for two to three weeks and see how your fish do. This is all I can think of at present. Good luck!

B


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

It's possible the loaches are the culprits, but I doubt it... Adding more of them should have made the loaches less likely to be nippy, not more likely. I have 5 in my 75 gallon and they don't even bother my guppies, which are usually the first targets for any nippers. My guess is the stress from the parasites is making everyone more irritable, so I'd wait and see if the nipping continues after everyone's healthy before making any changes.


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## SueK (May 25, 2012)

86? Wow, I would have thought that would cook them! I had put it up to 80 when I first saw the ick, which suddenly feels very conservative! Well, I usually keep them around 76, so I guess it is pretty conservative. I really hate stressing my fish and I worry about my butterfly loach from an oxygen standpoint if I take the temp too high.

I keep a magnum hang on tank going all the time for surface movement already.

I recall seeing something about garlic on a frozen diet, but beyond that didn't realize it was something to feed fish. I'll definetly give that a try. To be honest, I've been feeding them heavier than normal, thinking healthier fish can fight off parasites more. Well if not heavier definetly different. Less flakes and more frozen brine and blood worms. Went to the LFS yesterday and bought a variety of frozen things for them. 

I'll start getting water warmed and ready tonight for a big change tomorrow and give it a good vacuming. Maybe a nice meal right before the cleaning and then lighten up a couple of days.

Man, it's stressful when something goes wrong with them. I hope I get them through this alright.

Thanks!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Go easy on the food when they are ill - it actually goes the the opposite way - more food, more pollution, more stress.

Stability comes first, and getting rid of the Ich. Then you will have time to see who the nipper is. I'll bet the other angels, but you will have to see. Odds are, the nipping is nothing. The smaller one could be a male.

And that behavior could stop when the Ich is done and the temps come down.


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## SueK (May 25, 2012)

I don't see any signs of ick and have the temp down to normal. I probably need to do another water change or two to ensure all the junk I put in is out, but I have done some and have carbon in there again.

Surprisingly, right after the water change, I did see a loach go for the an angel. Lterally before the tank settled, so I'm guessing stress. I still find it hard to beleive those little guys could actually do damage, so I'll keep watching, but maybe they would be the most stressed by chemicals, so I'm hopeful it was them and temporary.

I'm concerned with the tips of the fins gone, I'll have trouble telling if it' getting worse or healing? What do I look for and how long do I wait to know if they're safe or not?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Did you see the loach actually nip the angel, or just follow it? My loaches play "follow the leader" and follow other fish in the tank all the time without actually doing anything to them. 

Take note of how short the fins are, take pictures if needed. Then compare that with how they look in a week or two. It should be easy to tell if the tips are getting any shorter by then. If they stay the same length or get longer, then the nipping has resolved itself. Fins will tend to grow back clear first, then thicken and get coloration over the course of a month or so (if they grow back at all, depends on the fish's age and how it was nipped).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glad things worked out for you. In the future I would stick with one type of treatment and stick with it. Combining a med treatment and on top of that putting in two different types of med and treating with higher temp at the same time can prove deadly. Both the temp and the meds stress the fish and rid the water of oxygen. The two meds you used do not interfere with your good bacteria or your biological filter.


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## SueK (May 25, 2012)

It as a definite nip as the angel reacted, scooting away a bit. That said, I still struggle to imagine the loaches doing any actual damage, so I'll kkeep an eye open. I have high hopes this will resolve itself, as the only ones in my tank I think of as potential nippers are the angels themselves (though I'm sure the smaller one can't be picking ont he bigger on, so something else did go on).

Love the ide of taking pictures, I'll do that now. Should help me see if we're getting better or worse faster than watching and guessing! 

Right now, one of my male rainbows has that white stripe and is flirting with my girls (I have 2 males, 5 females). My guys haven't done that in a bit, it's good to see.

Thanks all! Snice to have somewhere there's other people that understand you can care about fish.


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## wmurky (3 mo ago)

Suddenly my dwarf chain loaches have started picking on my serpae tetras, one tetra at a time, killing 3 so far now going after a 4th, I have 8 loaches. Everything was peaceful in the tank for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks suddenly I noticed I had one dead tetra then I saw going after another tetra that 1 died 1 time then they went after another tetra and that 1 died now they're on their 4th harassing constantly it seems they pick out the weak fithe weak fish had won't leave it alone until it dies.


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