# Kordon Rid-Ich Plus??



## JenD

Hi all. I am battling ich. I am on day 3 of treatment using Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. I have raised the temp to 86 degrees. I am not noticing any improvement. I am doing 25% water changes before each dose. Has anyone else used this med? Am wondering if I should look into something else or just be more patient? Lost my sons rainbow shark today and am hoping to avoid any further losses. 

37g with the following still in it:
5 mollies
5 lamp eye tetra
4 zebra danio
1 hatchet fish
1 black kuhli loach
1 otto
4 ghost shrimp

Thanks for any input!


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## Gizmo

Continue with the Rid-Ich, but get those shrimp out of there. #1 inverts aren't harmed by ich, and #2 shrimp are very fragile creatures. Frankly, I'm surprised you haven't lost one already. Check and make sure that Rid-Ich is invert safe, otherwise you just poisoned your tank and can't put the shrimp back in.

Also, did you remove the carbon in your filter? It will strain the meds out, if it's still in the filter.


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## coralbandit

I'm with Gizmo.Your shrimp need to be out of the tank as it says"Not for use with invertebrates(your shrimp) or live rock."You seem to be following directions well,as far as water change with each treatment,and raising temp as you did should shorten the life cycle of ich.
Sorry about your sons shark ,but often a fish is seriously ill before many recognise the disease.The meds didn't kill him as he was probably stressed by the ich.The meds will stress fish and if they are already weak(disease has hold on them)some will not survive.Believe the ich would have got him regardless.
Your kuhli loach(a scaleless fish) may also be more sensative to this med , so watch him if you can(I know they hide).
This is a good med and I have used it before and keep it on hand at all times.I have clown loaches(another scaleless fish) that have done well with this product.
Sometimes it could take 10 days to stop seeing visable signs so be patient and continue meds for 3-4 days after visable signs are gone as the ich tomites fall to substrate and can hatch.Keep temp up(where you are as long as fish are ok with it) for a week after you stop meds then slowly reduce it to where you were.Hope this helps.


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## JenD

I did take the carbon out. And shrimp are into the other tank. It says its safe for most scaleless fish but says nothing about inverts. Thanks for the info, hoping I got them out in time. So I won't be able to ever put them back in? That sorta stinks.


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## JenD

Dear lord do I feel like an idiot! After reading your post Coralbandit, I picked the bottle up and read it yet again and NOW I see the bold print where it says not for use with inverts. I have read the back of that bottle over and over the past few days making sure I was doing everything right. How I missed that I have no clue! But they are out and in with the frogs, hoping it was before they were harmed by the meds. Thank you both for bringing this to my attention! Feel absolutely terrible that I missed this.

I will continue with this med and all else I was doing. Am glad to hear I had all else right. All the fish are active like normal except the hatchet fish, he is just hanging around the same area mid-tank. But he is the worst of all of them.


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## rtmaston

how did you get the ich? hang in there.i hope its goes away quick for you.i guess its good to keep somthing on hand.


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## coralbandit

After you finish with meds and do a couple of water changes,add carbon(if only to remove traces of meds) you should be able to put shrimp back in tank.You just want to be sure all traces of the med have been removed.


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## JenD

I don't have a quarantine tank and am thinking the hatchet fish brought it home and I missed it. He is the worst, spots all over. So I def need to get another tank to use for that! And thank you, I hope it clears very soon!


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## JenD

As long as the shrimp seem happy maybe I will leave them in with the frogs. They don't seem to be bothering each other. 

After doing my water change this evening I found the loach, strangley enough in the same corner the shark was found. His color was off and he had brown splotches. Earlier today he was swimming around in some of the plants, he seemed to be doing ok. So loss is now at 2. The danios are hanging on the bottom an awful lot, expecting the worst with them as well.


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## Gizmo

Yeah, some Ich meds contain copper sulfate. Copper in any form is toxic to invertebrates, and is very hard to remove completely once you've used it.

I lost all ten of my $6.50 cardinal tetras to Ich, but the one $0.50 guppy survived. It's very hard to eradicate. I ended up tearing my tank apart, rinsing and boiling the substrate, salt dipping the plants, and putting in new filter media. Had to re-cycle the tank as well, but it got rid of it.


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## saltydad

I have used Kordon's Ich Attack Herbal Formula with good results, and it is safe for shrimp, too. Good luck.


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## JenD

Ok I got a pic of the hatchet fish. His back fin looks almost like it is rotting. He is acting normal and is active which I find odd concidering. The otto and all 4 danios died. One of the danios had an eye fall out?? Will be googling that shortly. Am wondering if I shouldn't just go for the aquarium salt. Are the tetras sensitive to that? Def frustrated and disappointed. 

Gizmo sorry about your losses! Figures that would be the way it would go. I love the guppies though, they do so well. And are so pretty 

Hope my pic shows up. Not sure if I did this right!


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## coralbandit

wow! He's really covered. Sorry for the loss of other fish.So you have tetras and mollies left?The kordon rid ich plus does say you can dose every 12 hrs instead of 24 for severe cases.The hatchet looks pretty severe.Know this;No med or salt will kill the ich while it is on the fish.The parasite is under the skin while on fish.The meds or salt(many claim salt works) kill the trophont after it leaves the fish falls to substrate(then a tomont),and while the cyst generates to many more,and is in search of new host(3 day period).Vacumming the substrate is very important and you seem to keeping a watchful eye on things so salt or continued meds;I'll recommend you do a thourough vacumming when the hatchet looks a little better(ich has fallen off) and vacumming more than 25% is ok and possibly a safer precaution.Shake your bottle good if you're going to keep using and make sure your using enough(see no hint of color in water{should be colored from dye}).


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## JenD

I can't tell for sure, but he might have lost a few spots since last night. He has looked like this almost a week now. Was thinking of maybe doing 50% water changes over the next few days. Just googled whether I can use the salt with the tetras and it does seem they are sensitive so that would be a last resort. I do shake the bottle like mad before using. The water is blue for awhile after putting in and then clears up. I assume that is normal because I am using the recommended dosing. And yes that is all that is left unfortunately. I had moved the shrimp over and they seem to be doing well. And thank you all so much for all of your input!


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## coralbandit

since tetras are sensative to salt I would dose the kordon every 12 hrs.If the tertas start to look bad a little salt might not be the end of the world(usaull dose is 1 tablespoon per 5 g/so do 1 tablespoon per 10g and tetras may not be botherd). The hatchet looks severely infected so even if others seem fine(they are healthier and have not been subjected to same stress{hatchet is newest arrival(shipping...)} I think the disease has the opurtunity to get good hold on your tank,Therefore more frequent dosing would be good if you want to win(the ich wants to win and losing means dying for it)fight hard.


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## rtmaston

you got some good advice.i hope you get rid of it soon.


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## JenD

I will start dosing twice a day tomorrow. I was afraid to do that before with the loach and so on in there to but since they are gone now I agree that would be a good idea. Should I still vacuum with every dose? Or just do that with one a day? I def wanna beat this, it is severely pissing me off lol!


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## coralbandit

vac every time as they fall off and land on substrate 1 cyst can turn into 3000 new "little ichs" looking for a new host.The meds work while they are off fish and if they don't find new host they die in 3 days.Thats why they say to continue meds 3-4 days after visable signs are gone as they are not necessarily gone but in substrate or swimming looking for next victim.Ich is brutal when it takes hold.Recognised early it can be defeated in 7 days.Hope all this helps and wish you(and your fish ) luck.


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## jccaclimber2

Bump the temperature another degree or two. The fish will take the heat, and the ich won't. This will give you some wiggle room in case your thermometer or heater is off by a degree or two.


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## JenD

Have been continuing treatment as we talked about above. The hatchet fish unfortunately did not make it. He did loose all his spots but lost the battle anyway. There are just a few showing spots that didn't have before. My new plants arrived and I got them in. Don't know if there is any truth in it, but the girl at the pet store said live plants would help, I sorta am doubting it would help with ich though. But regardless they look nice. But so on we go, at least there has not been any more deaths since Sunday morning. Hoping the rest pull through well and the battle is soon over!


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## Sully

One thing I didn't see mentioned here but was suggested when I went thorugh this a month ago is to lower you're water level a bit so that your HOB filter (if thats what you're running) will create a splash in the water and create oxygen. The higher temps and the meds reduce the oxygen level in your tank quite a bit from what I've been told.


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## JenD

I did put an airstone in but that would help as well. Plus a little less water to look after with all these water changes. And with that all I can say is I am so glad we don't pay for our water! Once the last spot is gone I figured on going a week with the treatment rather than a few days just to be safe. How long should I wait to start replacing the fish we lost once treatment is over? A week, 2 or even 3? And a breeding net wouldn't be sufficient for quarantine would it?


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## jccaclimber2

A week should be fine. What is more important is to add fish slowly. Breeder nets are not sufficient isolation as the water still mixes.


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## JenD

Thanks, thats what I was figuring. Before we were adding 4-5 at a time. Plan on changing that to 1-2 from here out! And very thorough examing before they get anywhere near that tank!


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