# Two more questions and problems.



## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

First question:

I mentioned in another post that two of my fish died of unknown... no symptoms other than hide get skinny and die (no body found because my snail clean up crew). Well now I have noticed salt like specs on my red tetras. So I am treating the whole tank with copper safe. BUT here is the question. I have 3 dojo/weather loaches... they like lower temps not so much higher... so i treated the tank with a half dose for the size of the tank.. Are they going to be ok? Also the tank is planted somewhat... ugh 

Second question:

I have a 20 gal tall tank with my convict cichlid juvies in it. Well for a few months now i have noticed one female acting odd.. hanging out near the surface. Avoiding the others sortof...lethargic.. not really eating.. but here is the thing... I think she might be blind.. so not eating well and basically groping around for food etc. she is alive.. but not thriving... what should I do?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Becca please pay attention to the forum your posting in. Not all go into member intros. That is all it is for.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks I realized that after I posted it but didnt know how to move it.. thanks for moving it for me.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Your welcome


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

I'll leave the first question to more knowledgeable fish keepers.

The convict is obviously sick if its hanging at the top, listless and not eating. Do her eyes look like there's a film over them? I've had fish die of columnaris who acted blind, and almost had to have the food put right up to their mouths, or they didn't get to eat. Do you see any patches of film on her anywhere? Look closely with a magnifying glass, if possible. Any sores? Fins frayed at all? You could go ahead and treat the convict, but you do need to have some idea of what is wrong, ie; parasites, bacteria or fungal problem. If you give the wrong meds, it could only make her worse, as meds are stressful, and you'd be putting off the correct treatment. So more info is needed. Also, what are your water parameters?


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

One eye looks smaller than the other.. **** it didnt grow. and the other looks normal. no fin probs, no sores, no ick, no fuzz, nothing in the gills.. just looks blind. i can put my hand, net or anything in there and move her around and she just moves if she is touched. the other fish all dart away when i come in and she has no reaction at all.. my water params are perfect. no ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite and ph is about 7.6. a long time ago months i think i had my pump going out without me realizing it and a few fish started with the dropsy. i was able to reverse it but maybe it had permanent damage to her. i treated then with antibiotics because some had some scale and blurry filmed eyes. they all cleared up. including her. her eyes are totally clear. so idk what is up.


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

She may be blind. Just give her lots of TLC, and hand feed her if you have to, otherwise she may not get anything to eat. You might be right that she suffered permanent damage, especially if her eye didn't look that way before.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

what is a good way to hand feet her.. i thought of a breeder box but i need that soon for my molly..


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Well I lost my silver molly last night.. the other fish seem ok.. still eating and swimming...none sitting on the bottom like she was last night... I moved my temp up to 86 through yesterday... now what? do I just wait and see?


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Oh dear...don't increase the temp to 86! You don't know what these fish are dying of, right? If it's columnaris, it will just reproduce and spread faster, and you DON'T want that, trust me. I'd keep it around 76-77. If you knew for SURE it was columnaris, I'd say drop it to 75-76, but we don't know. You said no ick, right? I'd only bump up the temp if you knew for SURE the fish had ick. But if there's any question of it being columnaris, I'd say stay between 76-77.


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

And I'm so sorry about your silver molly. What kind of antibiotics did you treat with? You might need to try something different, depending on what is killing your fish. It might be a highly virulent form of columnaris, which can kill within 12 hours, and practically no prior symptoms. This needs to be hit hard, as I lost over half my tank to it. If its columnaris, I use Maracyn and Maracyn 2 at the same time. Or you can use Kanaplex, but I've not had good results with it. Maybe just the strain I have. I've also tried Furan-2, but also not much luck.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

I am sorry for the confusion. the two probs mentioned above are in two different tanks. the blind fish is in a 20 gal and the other prob is in my 60 gal, the 60 gal has ich for sure. I am treating with coppersafe (tho i forgot to remove my filters so its prob gone) and half dose salt and heat like I said. Idk what else to do.. my dojos do not seem happy they are trying to hang out at the surface and any high area they can get to...going to do a partial water change again tonight and vac the substrate...


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Just did a pwc... fish still looking poorly.. when should i see signs of hope?


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay, now I think I understand. 86 is a little high for a Dojo Loach. I treated Ich by keeping my tank at 84 (with salt added) for a full two weeks. Maybe a little overkill, but I wanted to be sure it was gone. I didn't use meds of any kind, since a higher temp should be all that's needed to get rid of it. After 3 days of 86 degree temp, the Ich should be gone, but I'd continue with the higher temp (maybe bring it down to 84 for the loach's sake) for another few days. Then maybe down to 82, and then gradually down to a temp your dojo is comfy with. Honestly, it should be gone in a week at the max. I just did it longer because some people recommend a longer period of time, and I wanted to be on the safe side. I would think the fish would be acting better within 3 days. Just remember to have good flow from your filter, do water changes often, and replace the salt that you remove when you do those water changes. Keep us posted!!


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Was just thinking. You said you moved your temp up to 86 during the day. Only a degree or two per hour? Any faster than that, and you could shock your fish. I've seen fish die from a temperature change that took place too quickly. It could explain why they are looking poorly. Ich does, though, make fish feel terrible. I know mine looked to be on death's doorstep before they started improving with the higher temp and salt. I'm hoping you'll notice some improvement within two or three days.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Yes I moved the temp up only a degree ever few hours i was keeping it around 79 anyway was where they seemed happiest. This is day three since I noticed the ick.. and day two of the high temp... they are absolutely covered.. well some of them.. a few have less... and a few have none at all...Here is to hoping and praying.. oh and I am out of salt... just did a pwc and didn't add more...i know i shouldnt use table salt... but could i get kosher salt rocks? and how much should I add..my poor dojos...


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

I have another fish hanging on the bottom.. no ick on her.. I have some cichlid antibacterial remedy.. could I use that?


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Oh boy.... you DO have some issues going on. I'm wondering if there isn't something going on as well as ich. You use kosher salt, yes, AS LONG as it has no IODINE! Sea salt is fine too--again, NO IODINE. The ones that are covered with ich may not make it--only time will tell. You should begin to see improvement soon, if they are going to recover.

About the fish hanging on the bottom--this is a sign of stress. Is it a Cichlid? You said you have an antibacterial remedy, but don't say what it is. Some are worthless. Also, just like with people, its best not to medicate unless you know what you're medicating for, and using the right med for the problem. You could make the fish sicker by treating with the wrong med. If the fish has parasites, for example, antibiotics won't do any good, and meds are hard on a fish in any case. Especially if they're sick to begin with. 

Any other signs other than hanging on the bottom? Eating? Pooping? Any filminess or sores, frayed fins? Gills inflamed or red? Is the breathing rapid? Might give us a better idea on how to treat based on answers to these questions.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Not meaning to add to any confusion,I'm all for real meds and not salt.The heat is proven to speed up the life cycle of ich and is part of effective treatment.The salt IMO is only of use for osmoregulation issues(I know many use it for ich,but not me).I use Kordon rid ich plus.
Ich is easily beaten when recognised early and treated effectively.It's a killer for sure if it gets a hold on your fish(and is then in your tank till you kill it).Kill It!
Here's a link to the life cycle of ich so you're not fooled into thinking it's gone while in gravel.Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist.
Oh yea,you should be vacumming the substrate regulary as when the ich falls off your fish it lands in the gravel and grows by the thousands in 2-3 days and then returns.It can only be killed while it is OFF the fish.So if you see spots you're not killing it yet.Kill it when you don't see spots(when it is in the gravel.)


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

seaecho said:


> Oh boy.... you DO have some issues going on. I'm wondering if there isn't something going on as well as ich. You use kosher salt, yes, AS LONG as it has no IODINE! Sea salt is fine too--again, NO IODINE. The ones that are covered with ich may not make it--only time will tell. You should begin to see improvement soon, if they are going to recover.
> 
> About the fish hanging on the bottom--this is a sign of stress. Is it a Cichlid? You said you have an antibacterial remedy, but don't say what it is. Some are worthless. Also, just like with people, its best not to medicate unless you know what you're medicating for, and using the right med for the problem. You could make the fish sicker by treating with the wrong med. If the fish has parasites, for example, antibiotics won't do any good, and meds are hard on a fish in any case. Especially if they're sick to begin with.
> 
> Any other signs other than hanging on the bottom? Eating? Pooping? Any filminess or sores, frayed fins? Gills inflamed or red? Is the breathing rapid? Might give us a better idea on how to treat based on answers to these questions.


She was totally fine until i added the ich treatment and upped the temp. i did lower it to 84 and did a pwc. she has no other symptoms that i can see. she is thinner than she was but that is all. clamped fins also. fins a little frayed but not bad. breathing is slow, she is lethargic. doesnt look bloated much. tho she is prego so between the ick treatment and the pregnancy she could just be under too much stress...


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Not meaning to add to any confusion,I'm all for real meds and not salt.The heat is proven to speed up the life cycle of ich and is part of effective treatment.The salt IMO is only of use for osmoregulation issues(I know many use it for ich,but not me).I use Kordon rid ich plus.
> Ich is easily beaten when recognised early and treated effectively.It's a killer for sure if it gets a hold on your fish(and is then in your tank till you kill it).Kill It!
> Here's a link to the life cycle of ich so you're not fooled into thinking it's gone while in gravel.Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist.
> Oh yea,you should be vacumming the substrate regulary as when the ich falls off your fish it lands in the gravel and grows by the thousands in 2-3 days and then returns.It can only be killed while it is OFF the fish.So if you see spots you're not killing it yet.Kill it when you don't see spots(when it is in the gravel.)


I understand. I have loaches so treated with half the needed strength for my tank (also it was all I had left) and half the needed salt and upped the temp. I will go buy some ich treatment today also. And I vaccumed the substrate yesterday when i did the pwc for just that reason. Unfortunately i forgot to turn off my filter when I added the meds and the carbon probably removed most of it. I will get some moremeds today and hopefully kick it.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't turn off your filter,just remove the carbon.The tank still needs the filter to stay healthy.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

how do i remove the carbon? its in the filter...


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Cut the top of the pouch/packet and take it out,then use just the fabric.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

now another platy is rubbing on things. nothing i can see on him tho.. so two platys with no marks are doing that.. or hiding...


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Honestly, I got rid of ich with just salt and raising temp for two weeks. It's never come back, and that was two years ago. I'd be afraid to use ich meds with loaches present. The rubbing is from some type of irritation. Let's hope its just ich, and not something more sinister (although I agree ich can certainly kill if left untreated). I'm still not convinced you don't also have some columnaris going on, unfortunately.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

what is columnaris?


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Google it. It's a deadly disease, and depending on how virulent your strain is, sometimes it can't be cured, no matter what you do. I'm battling it, and have been for over a year now, having outbreaks again and again. It's a true nightmare--that's why you need to quarantine EVERY new fish you bring in, because sooner or later you'll get one with it, and it'll infect all your other fish.


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

Ok next plan.. create a hospital tank.. i wish i hadn't just sold my two ten gallons.. maybe a 5 gal would do ok for a quarantine..


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

For a few small fish, a 5 gallon would be okay. I used one for a rainbow fish for a short time. Not ideal, but sometimes you have to make do. I used a Kritter Keeper container and put a sponge filter (the smallest one they make) and a 50 wt. heater. Or you can use Tupperware, but be sure it HAS A LID! And you can NEVER have too many tanks! If you had a sick fish and a fish that needed quarantine at the same time, you'd need TWO extra tanks. See what I mean?


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## BeccaBx3 (Sep 21, 2011)

I understand. but that will have to wait until i have more room.. lol barely space as it is.. will work on that tho for sure.


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## jamnigh (Apr 24, 2013)

Work with what you got lol. A 5 gal will do as a temp home if its a must.


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