# Hello! Couple of questions.



## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

I recently took up a new hobby and that's running my new fresh water aquarium! I have a couple questions about my new hobby but first let me give you some info on my tank.

55 Gallon Tank
-76℉-78℉

Filters x2
-Marineland Biowheel Penguin 200
-Cascade 400 Internal Filter 

My friends
-Tiger Oscar 2 inches
-Common Plecos 2.5 inches
-Three Dot Gourami 2 inches
-Dwarf Gourami 1 inches
-Map Turltes x2 1.5 inches
-Yellow Belly Turtle 1.5 inches
-Fresh Water Crabs x2
-Golden Snail

So far its been a week and everyone's been getting along. My fishes and turtles are all active and feeding properly. No fights have been "witnessed" yet xD. I tested my water levels earlier today and everything was fine except for the nitrate levels. I don't remember the exact number but it was high. My friend at the store gave me some NITE-OUT II. I also bought a siphon vac and 10 gallons of distilled water. 

Now for my questions:
Is my tank way too populated? If it is what should I do?
What can I do to lower nitrate levels on a daily, weekly, monthly basis?
Why does my Oscar hide from me?
What are some things I need to improve on?


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok, well in short you have done what many new aquarists do, you have made a recipe for disaster. The Common Pleco you got will definatly out grow that tank, they can get over 2' long but he will be ok for a while. The Tiger Oscar you have is an aggressive south american cichlid that will eat anything that will fit in it's mouth so as it gets bigger (up to 14-16" bigger) the carb and gourami will be in danger. Also the oscars can live in temps you have but they seem to prefer 80-82. Honestly you are what I would concider WAY overstocked, the oscar, pleco and turtles will have a massive bio load and you will end up needing to do 50 percent waterchanges twice a week or so when they get bigger. If you want to keep the Oscar I would also recommend looking for a 75g tank, the 55g tank is to narrow for them to turn around in when they get huge. If you have any questions about oscars or keeping them please feel free to PM me at any time. I love my oscars and like helping responsible keepers. Don't get discouraged, alot of us learned from our mistakes.


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Oh and BTW, as your oscar gets used to you a bit more he will recognize you as the person that feeds him and you won't be able to keep him way from the front of the glass when you come in a room. Right now he is a bit scared and shy but keep at it and he will come around.


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## Tiari (Apr 25, 2012)

I agree with the above, and I realize your choices have all been honest mistakes. Many times people are not aware of the sizes their fish they purchase will grow to, or are given a siren song that they will "only grow to the size of the tank". The last is a total myth, as "stunting" is just another way of saying retarding and stress-fully retarding a fish's growth.

You may wish to highly consider returning the oscar and the pleco to the store. I know that is always a hard choice, as you really wanted them, but unless you are willing and able to make a huge tank upgrade, their lives will not be ideal by any means.

Of another note to keep in mind, as an oscar grows, if its area becomes too cramped, they have been known to break tank glass by *banging* into the glass in frustration.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Congrats on your new project. CrazyMFFM has shared some great advice and in my opinion, you'd be wise to follow it. I'm curious...did the individual who sold you the Oscar realize it would be homed in a community aquarium? 

Beyond what's already been stated, are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle and how it will affect your new pets over the next several weeks? If not, perhaps google "aquarium nitrogen cycle". There is a lot to learn on the subject, and understanding the nitrogen cycle will be vital to your tank's long term success. Some of what you'll read will be opinion, but much will be fact. You may notice a high degree of urge in what you read as this hobby tends to be pursued and taught by passionate individuals. I personally wouldn't subject fish to a nitrogen cycle and I came to that realization the hard way many years ago. That being said, many fish hobbyist’s cycle their tanks successfully with fish they claim remain healthy. There is a science to it though…so for the sake of your sanity and your fish's gills, you’ll want to learn it.

I grew up with a freshwater tank in every room of our home as my parents were big enthusiasts. I then went on to keep freshwater tanks for over 20 years…had a lot of success and an occasional failure but a fun journey nonetheless. I’m currently embarking on a new saltwater journey and have used this forum to educate myself on all things salty. I’m learning that saltwater is a very different hobby. I have found a great knowledge base here in this forum…fellow hobbyists ready to offer guidance. I’m so thankful for the advice that’s landed in my personal message inbox via the veteran salt-lovers. 

Wishing you a trouble-free cycle!


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

Well I made lots of mistakes! Hmm looks like I'm going to need separate tanks which is no problem for me. 

-So the turtles will be out today with their own terrarium. So will the gouramis

-I read up on the Oscars and Plecos before i got them and purchased a 55 gallon knowing that i would have to buy a way bigger tank as they get older but now i know they need alot more room for themselves. Just wanted to start at a decent size and save money for a bigger tank. That being said should I leave the Plecos and Oscar alone in the 55 gallon? I'll be able to upgrade in 3-4 months.


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Oscars usually grow around 1" per month so you should be fine, and congrats on deciding to keep the oscars!


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey Goby I just bought 24 gallons of distilled water to do a 50% water change and I was wondering are there any additives besides NITE OUT II that I can add to lower nitrates or is the water change and N.O. good enough? How frequent do I do these water changes. Also should I add more plants?

Now my tank has my Tiger Oscar, Common Plecos, Crabs x2


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll throw out a question. Won't the oscar eat the crabs when they moult? They seem like perfect food for a big predator.


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

yes the Oscar will. Just keeping them in there now to help clean gravel, decaying plants n such. My Oscar is pretty small once he grows I'll switch the crabs over to my other tank.


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## Tiari (Apr 25, 2012)

You could try a packet of Seachem Purigen in the filter for nitrates. I have never personally used it, but a lot of people swear by it.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Jareth said:


> Hey Goby I just bought 24 gallons of distilled water to do a 50% water change and I was wondering are there any additives besides NITE OUT II that I can add to lower nitrates or is the water change and N.O. good enough? How frequent do I do these water changes. Also should I add more plants?
> 
> Now my tank has my Tiger Oscar, Common Plecos, Crabs x2



K...the active ingredients in products such as Nite Out...brace yourself...are designed to _increase_ your nitrate levels, not decrease them. 

Isn't this fun? lol No worries though cuz your water change is going to battle the nitrates. And yes, adding plants will reduce nitrates. Plants consume nitrates...they love them.

The nitrogen cycle goes sorta like this...

First...
Uneaten fish food and fish poop decays into either ammonia or ammonium. Ammonium isn't poisonous but ammonia is. When the PH of aquarium water is under 7, ammonium tends to form. When the PH is higher than 7, ammonia tends to form...that's the general rule of thumb.

Second...
Soon good bacteria, (such as that found in Nite-Out) will grow and oxidize the ammonia, basically getting rid of it. The byproduct of that chemical process is nitrites...a less poisonous toxin but a toxin just the same. By now you are probably into the 2nd week of the cycle.

Third...
Then another similar yet different bacteria, (also in Nite-Out) grows and converts the nitrites to nitrates. Nitrates are even less toxic to fish but in excessive amounts are still harmful. And here is where your water changes and plant life come into play...they both reduce those pesky nitrates. Fresh water removes nitrates and photosynthesizing plants consume nitrates. And since every tank is different with regards to water content, equipment capabilities, and fish stocking etc...it's difficult for me to give you good advice on future water changes. But through the process of monitoring your tank closely you will be able to create a routine that meets the needs of your particular tank. I have heard reputable hobbyists say they change out 25% of the water monthly. And I have heard others, equally reputable; say they change out 10% of their water weekly. With regards to water changes, more is not necessarily better. Also keep in mind that water changes are not only meant to reduce nitrates but also to replenish trace minerals vital to fish health. Which brings me to another concern…

Distilled water lacks the ability to buffer PH levels which results in PH swings which results in gobs of problems. Distilled water also has low dissolved oxygen levels and lacks salt and minerals vital to fish health. So while it’s appropriate to replace evaporated tank water with small amounts of distilled water, it’s inappropriate to use it for significant water changes. Since you already bought the distilled water you may want to just save it and use it to top off the tank occasionally? But if you really want to use it I’d encourage you to get a mineral additive and I’m not familiar with what’s best. And you’ll also want to add some aquarium salt but I can’t remember the ratio…you can get a small bag of it at Wal-Mart for a couple bucks and it will have instructions. I’m thinking about a teaspoon per gallon but don’t quote me on that! And you also may want to consider aerating the distilled water overnight to bring up dissolved oxygen levels. And then there’s the PH issue…you’ll need to buffer it somehow. I’d be comfortable buffering freshwater with baking soda but I hesitate to have you tackle that. You may want to consider a professional buffer from the LFS…I tend to go with Kent products. Eventually, if I were you, I’d get more comfortable with tap waters, well waters, or better yet reverse osmosis. I know it all sounds complex but really once you learn how it works, it tends to fall into place. And please know, that every single mistake you’ve made, I’ve also made, so don’t sweat it.

With all that, these are merely my personal suggestions and opinions based on past experiences. I do encourage you to seek the advice of others as well. I learn something new every day.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Tiari said:


> You could try a packet of Seachem Purigen in the filter for nitrates. I have never personally used it, but a lot of people swear by it.



Thanks for that suggestion Tiari. I had not heard of that product but just read about it and it sounds like something worth trying. :fish-in-a-bag:


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

So much to take in but anything for my fish!

So far I have a list composed of:
Seachem Purigen
Mineral Additive
Aquarium Salt
Kent Buffer
Aerate Distilled water


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Jareth said:


> So much to take in but anything for my fish!
> 
> So far I have a list composed of:
> Seachem Purigen
> ...



You'll want a mesh media back to hold the Purigen. Sounds like you have it under control.


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

would a bio wheel penguin 200 double filter do?


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Sometimes I think people make this hobby harder than it needs to be, Is there anything wrong with your tap water? Just use that with a good declorinator. plants and waterchanges are enough to keep nitrates down, even water changes alone should be enough if your changing enough water and not overstocked or overfeeding. I'm not a fan of to many chemicals sometimes they seem to make things worse or knock your parameters out of sort.


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## piklmike (Jul 14, 2011)

:fish-in-bowl:I don't know which one to "quote" as the all said about the same as I would. As far as shy goes, mine NEVER was shy. Life of the party! Center of attention! Demanding! Tank clown! The most entertaining critter I have ever had! He is less than a year old and is 10in. long. Dominates a 75G. His tank buddies are a 7in. pleco he plays tag with, the pleco acctually plays back,or won't be bullied I'm not sure which, and a 5in algea eater that plays hide and seek with him. When I clean his gravel and move the plastic plants around to do this he makes a big show of putting them back where "he" wants them. Since I have the filters hanging on each end of the tank I can't use a standard hood so I have 3 pieces of plate glass across the top. Some time he gets so excited about feeding time he has banged in to the glass as I drop crickets, Krill, freeze dried shrimp,mealworms,in the gaps between the pieces. It's a sure thing a bigger tank is coming in soon. 200G. at least.


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

Tap water is at:
Nitrate 10-15 ppm
Nitrite 2.0-3.0 ppm
pH 7.6-8.0


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

I've never used a bio-wheel so I'm not the best one to ask about their performance. I'm certain though that your carnivorous fish species will require a much larger filtering/gph rate than 55 gallons...double that at least, maybe more. If you are sold on the penguin I'd buy the largest one in it's class. I use a canister filter which many people are not fans of because they lend themselves to nitrate production. Your particular fish will be able to handle a moderate amount of nitrates though...just Google those limits. And don't quote me on this but I think I've read that bio-wheels don't manage nitrates well either...you'll want to research that I suppose. That being said, canister filters do a great job managing ammonia and nitrites...or at least mine does and did even before I got my protein skimmer. Plus with my canister I can customize 4 huge trays with whatever filter media I chose which allows me to really polish the water and/or deal with changing water issues as needed. I personally don't mind the nitrates because I have adequate plant life to handle whatever nitrates come my way...sometimes I think of my canister filter as a "feeder" for my plants. My aquarium is saltwater so I use a protein skimmer to manage most waste products, and a refugium too. 

Here is a link to my filter which has a UV sterilizer too

CF-500UV : Filters : Aquatop

This filter is about $100 and will require you to buy an overflow box or drill holes in your tank. There are a lot of knock-offs being sold as this filter, so I had to be a little careful when I purchased but I've since heard the knock offs work just as well. I use a Tom Aquatics Surface Skimmer Overflow that sells for about $100 too, but you could easily get by with a more basic overflow for much less than that. The overflow box allows you to direct your water flow beneath your tank where it will be filtered inside whatever filtration device you have sitting in your stand and then the water gets pumped back up into the tank. My particular overflow box allows me to attach hoses directly do my canister which allows the canister to act as the pump. A more basic overflow box may require the purchase of a pump that sits in a small sump tank. This hobby can get crazy expensive. I often look for higher quality used equipment that I can buy much cheaper on eBay. And while many hobbyists swear by “natural" filtration methods such as plants etc...I'm still an advocate for purchasing a very strong mechanical/chemical/biological filtration system. I love my plants but I love technology more. For me, managing water quality is almost as fun as playing with my fish


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I think you can save a lot of money, time and most importantly, fish, by ditching the distilled water, fast. Use the money to get a python or similar water changing system.
The test kit you have is fine if all that matters is the cycle, but you need to know your water hardness. If it's not liquid rock hard, you can easily keep an oscar in it - they are very adaptable.
But with an oscar, there will be times you have to do heavy water changes quickly, and if you have to run out to buy water, mix it up, etc, it's not good. Bought water leads to fewer water changes for most of us, and that kills fish, over time.
Aquarium salt (non idiodized salt repackaged and sold at ten times the price) is not needed for an an oscar in normal North American tap (once you stop using distilled). Ditto for mineral additives (for African cichlids - oscars are American), the buffer... and once the cycle is working the other products.
How bad is your tap water?


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok, all those products you mentioned I really don't use. I do have a bag full of carbon just incase I need to remove meds or something from the water. It seems your tank is still cycling which means you need to keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels and do water changes accordingly until all you have are nitrates in levels below 40ppm. Your water changes will be critical as an oscar keeper, poor water quality can lead to various health problems so keep the water clean. As far as the distilled water goes....ditch it. All you need is tap water and a good declorinator like stress coat (what I use) to treat the water for cholrines and cloramines. I do appreciate your eagerness and your concern for the health of your fish, keep it up and you will go a ways in this hobby. Also, Navigator Black happens to be one of the most knowledgable people I have had the pleasure of meeting, so read any post of his you can find!


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Thats like I said before, you dont need special water and all that expensive chemicals, as far as I know the only way to get nitrates down is live plants and water changes, I dont think any filter will help with nitrates other than special nitrate filters which I dont use either. What sort of test kit do you use? it seems odd to have such high nitrites in your tap, my tap has 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates.

Navigator, he posted a few readings on page 1, check them out and tell us what ya think.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Forgot to mention, I use the Emperor 400 with bio wheels and love it, had it about 5 years and going never changed or cleaned bio wheels, it filters 400 gph in my 90 gallon and keeps things pretty clear ( I know I could use more filtration but it works well for me), the filter comes with 2 extra carbon media holders that I filled with ceramic pellets for extra bio filtration, also I use Quilt Batting from Walmart for the filter media and save even more money.


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

API Fresh Water Master Test Kit

Tap water is at: (will redo test)
Nitrate 10-15 ppm
Nitrite 2.0-3.0 ppm
pH 7.6-8.0

Tank water is at:
Nitrate 0 ppm
Nitrite 5.0
pH 7.6

Just retested my tap and its coming up the same as my last readings

I have reptisafe which removes chlorine, chloramines, removes ammonia, helps prevent accumulation of ammonia, adds electrolytes and calcium


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

Tank water has improved after my 50% change! (with with tap and some chlorine remover) Also I noticed my Oscar doesn't like the lights much so I keep the lights off most of the time.


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## Tiari (Apr 25, 2012)

Watch out for repti-safe, I have used this in the past as I had ADF's in the tank, and it can drastically reduce the PH over time.

Since you have nitrites in your tap water, I would suggest using Seachem Prime which will take care of that.


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## Jareth (Apr 25, 2012)

yeah I ditched the reptisafe and got Tetra AquaSafe and today I just finished buying prime and some extra plants. 

Also my Oscar is alive and well. He's getting more active each and every day that goes by 

Thanks for all the help guys my Tank is improving so much from all the info!


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

I am glad to hear he and your tank are doing well, I think you will come to love that little (for now) fish!


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