# What's goin on with my zoo coral?



## Nanoclown (Jan 17, 2013)

I had my green zoo coral now for maybe a month or more.. and it's beginning to not look so good.. I haven't been target feeding it anything.. but only letting it gather whatever's in the water.

It went from looking like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LWD2K4O.jpg


To this currently:

http://i.imgur.com/9yEodkk.jpg

I checked full parameters about 4 days ago, and am keeping up with weekly water changes. Parameters are good- although on the API reef master test kit my calcium took about 23 drops to reach the correct color-- so my calcium far exceeds the 400-500 limit. Alkalinity was past the upper limit in the kit as well.. going to about 20+ drops as well. 

Everything else though is fine. Salinity on point at 1.025. Ammonia, nitrites at 0. Nitrates close to 0. Phosphates close to 0. pH around 8.4.

Should I just start target feeding it? It seems a bit small to be able to take in visible pieces of food.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Target feeding will help and I think the API calcium test (2 part) is 10 drops of #1 and then you multiply drops m #2 x20,meaning at 23 drops your at 460 which is ok.I hope I'm right abou this as this is how I've been doing this for more than a year.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I'd get my ALK and Ca in line, you don't normally need to feed Zoas. I've never fed mine. Whats your PH at?.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

How long has it looked like that? One day two? It isn't tightly closed and that's a good thing. It could be alittle unhappy and will recover. I have this happen to me quite a bit. I would get your cal and alk in line if it's true they are reading that high. I would wait 3-4 days and see if it will start fully opening again.


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## ionix (Oct 11, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> I'd get my ALK and Ca in line, you don't normally need to feed Zoas. I've never fed mine whas your PH at?.


Same here, some won't accept anything. I just put a mixture of plankton in and everything is happy.

Maybe something in trace might be missing as well? Though there are probably larger things to look at first (pH for example)...

Then again it could also be something from a dirty hand or sleeve that has contaminated the water, maybe? I don't know.


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## Nanoclown (Jan 17, 2013)

Yeah, thanks guys. Today it's actually looking a bit better, except for random spots that are a fleshy/bright pink color.. not sure what those are. It seems with the actinic lighting on, it opens up more.. pH is 8.4 ish.. I wish these API pH tests were even more accurate so I could know exact numbers. 

I did a water change so maybe that put some balance back in order in my tank. It looked like it was dying, but it's perked up a lot today. we'll see!!

Also, how can I directly fix up the calcium and alk? I don't want to have to go buying all of these supplements and then dumping them in unless i absolutely need em.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

You can fix your cal and alk just by doing water changes. How big is your tank?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

tike said:


> You can fix your cal and alk just by doing water changes. How big is your tank?


Not if its out of whack you can't. You'd have to do a bunch of them separted by several days in order to get it back, that could be quite a bit of salt. When you can dose and fix it in one day.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

Reefing Madness said:


> Not if its out of whack you can't. You'd have to do a bunch of them separted by several days in order to get it back, that could be quite a bit of salt. When you can dose and fix it in one day.


Depending on how far out a whack it is and how big the tank is. The reason I asked how big the tank is. Move to step 2 when I find out that information.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

tike said:


> Depending on how far out a whack it is and how big the tank is. The reason I asked how big the tank is. Move to step 2 when I find out that information.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Not if its out of whack you can't. You'd have to do a bunch of them separted by several days in order to get it back, that could be quite a bit of salt. When you can dose and fix it in one day.


_As high as her calcium is I question the accuracy of a kH parameter of 20+.

*Mad Reefer-* Are you thinking she should dose an acid, or a calcium concoction? With calcium at 460 and Kh at 20+, I'd worry about a precipitation storm dosing calcium. She’d need to test her mag levels and beef them up a little first don’t ya think? That said, as unbalanced as those parameters are, depending on tank size, water changes would be a tedious and iffy process. _

*To the OP-* Red Sea has low alkaline salt. Definitely start boiling the top-off water- that depletes kH. Do you know what caused the supersaturated Kh? Too much buffer?

Regarding your zoa issues. The zoas look more cranky than unhealthy. It’s normal for colonies to close for days and even weeks and then open suddenly…who knows why. Are the zoas melting away or are they just closed? Zoas typically reflex to actinic light, even cranky ones, so don’t read much positive into that other than their reflexes are intact. I’ve often read that zoas are “easy”…but I haven’t found that to always be true. Some colonies are, but other colonies are finicky as he||. 

Conditions that prompt zoas to fuss… 

Magnesium below 1250-1350, give or take. And since magnesium prevents precipitation of calcium, considering your tanks alleged calcium and kH parameter, I’d guess a lot of magnesium is stuck to a lot of calcium. So who knows where your mag level is at? Maybe it’s low or maybe you had gobs to spare so it’s okay. Zoa keepers generally keep a mag test kit nearby. Google Magnesium and Zoanthids to learn the science behind zoas need for mag levels that are stable and WNL. That said, my zoas seem to like stable calcium, magnesium, kH, and pH levels…not necessarily spot-on levels but rather non-fluctuating. I don’t believe zoas utilize calcium or alkalinity so I question how a elevated yet stable kH could affect them especially when calcium levels are normal…not saying it wouldn’t…but I’m not grasping the science. Or did the kH just suddenly change? Have you dosed buffer recently? 

Other things that make zoas cranky are…
-Allelopathy- are the zoas upstream from other corals? Like leathers?
-Too much light- this can come on suddenly. 
-Too much direct flow- they hate it
-Parasites and pests- there are several and some are difficult to impossible to see. Dip everything in freshwater then watch for spiders and other creepy crawlers to appear. One tiny bristle worm (as charming as they are) can make an entire colony retract. They don’t like regular visits from a friendly hermit either.
-Nutrient deficient water- this was a hard lesson for me, my zoas, and my xenia. They need a little nitrate.
-Infection- brown or white spots. I only looked at your pictures once, but I don’t believe they look infected. I could be wrong though.
-Amongst others abnormal parameters, depleted strontium levels. 

For what it's worth, when my marine animals start acting funny I typically seek directive from whomever I bought them from. Can you contact that person/company? Sometimes I dive into wetwebmedia.com. And the information found at Live Aquarium Setup: Aquarium Care and Aquarium Fish Information has also served me well and their customer service people are great about responding to questions via email…even if you haven’t purchased from them. Beyond that, I've found most of the advice offered in this particular forum, regarding Marine Aquaria (not so much Fresh), to be reasonable and note worthy.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Goby said:


> _As high as her calcium is I question the accuracy of a kH parameter of 20+.
> 
> *Mad Reefer-* Are you thinking she should dose an acid, or a calcium concoction? With calcium at 460 and Kh at 20+, I'd worry about a precipitation storm dosing calcium. She’d need to test her mag levels and beef them up a little first don’t ya think? That said, as unbalanced as those parameters are, depending on tank size, water changes would be a tedious and iffy process. _
> .


I can have those parameters in line in 3 days. without water changes. I've done it, with no issues to my Reef tank. I had my ALK at 26 once, brought it down with muriatic acid, dosing 3 days, can't do it all in one day, this is where it would mess up a tank. And no., it affected nothing that you noted, except for the PH, and thats another reason you can't do it all in one day, you've got to give the PH 24hrs to bounce back up. Doesn't matter what the MAG is, nor what the CA is, we can deal with all this one at a time.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Why the heck are my threads being viewed now? Why won't they post right away??


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

No the OP not need to test for MAG, doesn't even matter what the CA is either. Dosing for ALK specific will not alter either one.
I've dosed my tank down from 26dKH using Muriactic Acid with no ill affects. Must take a couple days to do it though as it messess with the PH, so you gotta give that a 24hr window to come back up.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> I can have those parameters in line in 3 days. without water changes. I've done it, with no issues to my Reef tank. I had my ALK at 26 once, brought it down with muriatic acid, dosing 3 days, can't do it all in one day, this is where it would mess up a tank. And no., it affected nothing that you noted, except for the PH, and thats another reason you can't do it all in one day, you've got to give the PH 24hrs to bounce back up. Doesn't matter what the MAG is, nor what the CA is, we can deal with all this one at a time.



Yeah, I agree. Respectfully, my reference to magnesium and calcium parameters was in regards to bringing down kH with calcium...not acid. That's why I asked if when you mentioned dosing...if you were referring to dosing acid or calcium. It can be done both ways but with a calcium of 460 and unknown mag levels, I felt she’s be risking precipitation if she dosed calcium, unless there was enough mag in the water to bind with it. I'd also use acid if kH was causing issues. I had a high kH that gradually corrected itself without water changes and it never caused issues for the sessile inverts. Most will disagree, but water changes are rarely my first line of defense for anything. My kH at the time was hovering around 20...maybe hers is higher...but I doubt it given her calcium levels. It's possible. On a separate note, magnesium levels when diagnosing or ruling out zoa demise, is significant.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> No the OP not need to test for MAG, doesn't even matter what the CA is either. Dosing for ALK specific will not alter either one.
> I've dosed my tank down from 26dKH using Muriactic Acid with no ill affects. Must take a couple days to do it though as it messess with the PH, so you gotta give that a 24hr window to come back up.



I already answered you on this issue once...but apparently my post didn't publish? So again...

I believe you and I are on 2 different pages. I agree with you...completely.

Respectfully, my reference to magnesium and calcium parameters was in regards to bringing down kH with *calcium*...not acid. That's why I asked when you mentioned dosing...if you were referring to dosing acid or dosing calcium. It can be done both ways but with a calcium of 460 and unknown mag levels, I felt she’d be risking too much precipitation if she dosed calcium…unless there was enough mag in the water to bind with it. *I too would use an acid*...if kH was causing issues. And I understand that by doing so, mag and calcium levels would be irrelevant and unaffected.

That said, I had a high kH that gradually corrected itself without water changes and it never caused issues for the sessile inverts. Most will disagree, but water changes are rarely my first line of defense for anything. My kH at the time was hovering around 20...maybe the OP's is higher...but I doubt it given her calcium levels. It's possible. 

On a separate note, magnesium levels when diagnosing or ruling out zoa demise, is significant. And now that I think about it...mag levels are key to maintaining balanced calcium and kH so either way, she may benefit from knowing and understanding her mag level.

And why aren't any of my posts being published?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok, ya lost me here. Your not going to bring down ALK by dosing Calcium. ?? Did I read you correctly?
And you would think that Ca and Mag are key to keeping balance, but they are not. I had low MAG fovever, before testing, as I don't do water changes but twice a year, Dosed Calcium once in awhile, only dosed Baking Soda very rarely, and never have issues with PH. So, some spectulation as to wether thats an issue or not in my book.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Ok, ya lost me here. Your not going to bring down ALK by dosing Calcium. ?? Did I read you correctly?
> And you would think that Ca and Mag are key to keeping balance, but they are not. I had low MAG fovever, before testing, as I don't do water changes but twice a year, Dosed Calcium once in awhile, only dosed Baking Soda very rarely, and never have issues with PH. So, some spectulation as to wether thats an issue or not in my book.



High concentrations of calcium in the presence of high alkalinity will lower kH(carbonate). That's how calcium carbonate is made. When the water becomes saturated, calcium and kH ions bind. The binding creates a precipitation of calcium carbonate and results in lower calcium and kH levels. Magnesium regulates how quickly the chemical reaction occurs. This isn't a phenomenon known solely to the aquarium world, it's basic chemistry. It's one way to lower kH...and not just in an aquarium. That said, calcium/magnesium (GH) absolutely are key components to maintaining a balanced system, including alkalinity level. 


A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com


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