# Help please (algae problem)



## Nave (May 28, 2013)

So my jack dempseys tank is having an algae problem really really bad I have killed the lights for a week and it grew back with in day I cut half the light and the time I leave them on. I put my BN pleco in there and he was attacked even after I changed the layout. I was forced to move the BN back to the community tank. What can I do about this Algae or am I doomed to have an ever green tank. It just grows too fast. I have two plants in the tank as well an anubius and an sword plant of some sort. The anubius is getting a dark algae and the sword gets the green hair algae is this going to kill my plants? 

I was thinking about it and wanted to ask if anyone has had success keeping assassin snails in with jacks or any other highly aggro fish?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If you don't have any invertebrates in there, you could use an algaecide, or you could do a blackout. Otherwise, you'll need to figure out a good cleanup crew.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Do you change water?If you cut the lighting (amount and time) and still have issues then an abundance of nutrients would be my first guess.
Have you tested for phosphates? A good PH04 remover(phosban,or similiar) may help.
As far as freshwater goes alot of PH04 is introduced with the food we feed!Some sort of management is needed.
More plants can help out compete the algae also.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Siamese Algae Eaters - at AquariumFish.net, on Online Tropical Fish Store.


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## pineappleswordies (Apr 13, 2013)

Get Nerite snails. THey are the best! I had a very bad problem with algae and they eat it all. It was on the glass and on the plants. My tank is very clear now. I also did water changes also but the snails eat it up while it grows. I have 7 in a 20G and they are keeping it nice and clean.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have always believed it is a bad idea to buy some type of creature/s to take care of a problem that you already have and use of any chemicals is not even a consideration. Some things can help, but cannot usually keep a problem from happening if it is as fast growing as you say. 

Algae problems are best controlled by the light. Can you start by posting what light you have? Bulbs, kelvin, wattage, type, etc? How long do you leave it on for? What type/s of algae is it exactly? Can you post a pic of your tank?


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

without much plants, i would agree with jrman83.

about the only way to really effectively get rid of algae is to have lots of plants out compete it, or by starving it for light.

since you only have a couple plants, i seriously doubt you will be able to get them to outcompete it.


there are some cheat methods like algae fix, and antibiotics for cyano, but its almost guaranteed to come back if you dont fix whatever it is that makes the algae grow. 

algae is a fickle thing. you may find that it goes away on its own, or it could end up taking over everything. 
or, it might take over everything and then just vanish on its own.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

Thanks for the replies and sorry for mine being belated .

I do not want to or will use chems to solve my problem. The lighting I have is 1 17w t8 floral bulb (unknown K, I think the box said 5500 to 6000) the other light I have is a coralife nano tank light that was laying around its 10000k. 

The algae is green and clings itself to my rocks plants and gravel not so much the glass. It almost makes a sheet across the center rock. When I remove it it just about peels right off in one piece. 

I set up a timer for my lights just the other day as I am not home to turn them of I work 10-12 hr days so they have been on for too long I know. My other tanks don't have any issues tho just this one. 

As far as my plants this is a newer set up (4 months) so they are still small. Are there other plants that will thrive well being anchored to rock? 

I will try to post a pic I just cleaned the algae out Friday night after work. I change this tanks water..... A lot at a time 30-40% 

Is there something I can put in my filter to help with the problem? To my understanding algae feeds off nitrates and phosphates should I add more clear max to my filtration? I have an AC 70 and a fluval 206 can. I also use a maxi jet 400 to keep the water moving a bit.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

I am having problems uploading photos from the iPad it won't work if you look in my gallery there are several photos of the jack tank.

Aquarium Gallery - image139


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

looks like cyano. 

its one of those things that you may just have to wait out. the anubias should grow slow enough to survive the blackouts, but the sword might suffer.

it looks like the sword is in the lower lighted area... it should probably be the other way around. swords need more light than anubias since they grow faster.

that said, something that works for a lot of people is cutting the light back to just a few hours a day. its usually enough to keep the plants alive while being too hard on the algae. it might take a couple weeks to see it working though.
cyano is probably the most fickle "algae" i have ever worked with. its not a true algae and can sometimes hang on without much light, but starving it for light usually does work eventually.

so far as nutrients go, i dont know. i have at times added nitrates and phosphates and saw all the cyano disappear, even under 24/7 lighting, and at other times it caused a cyano bloom all over the tank. 

i have always seen it as more of a new tank problem. it usually goes away with time, even without me doing anything. all of my tanks are under 24/7 lighting and none of them have any cyano at all, but every one of them had big cyano blooms for the first few months.

the only guaranteed way i know of to completely get rid of it(besides complete 100% blackout) is antibiotics. but that also requires a change in habits or it will come right back...

i would say patience is the best medicine overall. cyano is one of those things that usually takes care of itself over time.

that said, it doesnt hurt to remove it manually from your plants in the mean time(gently). 
while the cyano doesnt normally block enough light to kill the leaves, it can damage them. one of the ways cyano extracts nutrients from its substrate is by raising the oxygen levels directly beneath it to many hundreds of times higher than normal when it is first exposed to light. this causes some of the substrate to oxidize. in this case, it slowly eats away at the leaves.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Cyanno is "considered" a bacteria,which is why antibiotics CAN work.It is a symptom of new tanks.Blue green algae killer or Red slime algae killer can help in the removal of it ,but as stated unless it "takes care of itself" then you will need to look closely at your "habbits",
Amazon.com: Ultralife Reef Products, Red Slime Stain Remover, .71 Ounce: Pet Supplies
Ultra Blue Green Remover Removes Algae Quick Freshwater Ultralife Free SHIP USA | eBay


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

antibiotics can definitely kill it, but it leads to bacterial blooms later on if it kills too much at once, and that leads to lower oxygen levels and stressed fish. not to mention ammonia spikes that come with the decaying material, and god knows what it does to the biological filter.

i prefer not to use it for those reasons.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Auban said:


> antibiotics can definitely kill it, but it leads to bacterial blooms later on if it kills too much at once, and that leads to lower oxygen levels and stressed fish. not to mention ammonia spikes that come with the decaying material, and god knows what it does to the biological filter.
> 
> i prefer not to use it for those reasons.


I've had this algae problem in one tank for a couple of months now and I'm going the blackout route right now on it.
In the second day of it now. But my tank had much more of it than those pictures show of his tank.
Considering what you just said about excess decaying matter...would you advise a large water change perhaps even twice
and perhaps the second one about 4-5 days after the first one beginning just after the algae dies ? I could use the siphon
to suck out a lot of the dead matter at this time while draining the tank also


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

Raymond S. said:


> I've had this algae problem in one tank for a couple of months now and I'm going the blackout route right now on it.
> In the second day of it now. But my tank had much more of it than those pictures show of his tank.
> Considering what you just said about excess decaying matter...would you advise a large water change perhaps even twice
> and perhaps the second one about 4-5 days after the first one beginning just after the algae dies ? I could use the siphon
> to suck out a lot of the dead matter at this time while draining the tank also


its hard to say what each tank will need, but its a safe bet to just go ahead and do the water change anyway. 

thats where the tricky part comes in. some fish are more sensitive to sudden changes than they are to fluctuations in oxygen. some are more sensitive to oxygen. 

i guess the best indicator would be the behaviour of your fish and what your testing equipment shows you. 

basically, if ammonia starts to rise, change your water.
if fish are gasping at the surface, change your water.

if nothing seems to happen, other than the cyano going away, do nothing and let it ride out. 


some may disagree with me, but i feel that its best to leave a happy fish alone, even if i think something must be wrong. 
notice the difference, however, between KNOWING and THINKING something is wrong.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Got you on that one. The type of fish are Banded Pigmy sunfish which are slow water fish which are used to the water getting
thin/w oxygen and polluted from water evaporation in ponds where they live. The prefer either slow running or still water
type environments which are more often subjected to evaporation issues than rivers or fast moving streams. They are about the
size of Cherry Barbs but thinner and there are only four of them to that ten gallon tank/w no other fish/shrimp etc.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

Thanks for the tips guys I'm going to cut the lights down to much less time per day for a few weeks and see what happens. I switched the two lights around so the brighter light is over the sword plant I'd still like to get another plant in there if anyone has any suggestions for an easy hardy plant to grow. 

Like I said before I had just cleaned the tank out on Friday once the algae starts it just takes off from there. I will continue my water changes to keep the nitrates and phosphates down.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Nave said:


> Thanks for the tips guys I'm going to cut the lights down to much less time per day for a few weeks and see what happens. I switched the two lights around so the brighter light is over the sword plant I'd still like to get another plant in there if anyone has any suggestions for an easy hardy plant to grow.
> 
> Like I said before I had just cleaned the tank out on Friday once the algae starts it just takes off from there. I will continue my water changes to keep the nitrates and phosphates down.


Wisteria is fairly fast growing easy plant which doesn't require much light but will eventually get large. I just got some and cut it
before planting it to cut it's growth and let it start out small. Took a chance and litterally cut it down to a 4" stem/w one leaf left
on it so it could still get some light but it's got a new leaf forming after only a week. So it must be hardy. I'm hoping it will soak
up some of those nutrients after it gets going good. It might do the same for you especially if you don't mutilate it like I did.


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## GreenyFunkyMonkey (Nov 27, 2012)

I haven't gone through all the replies yet so I am sorry if I am repeating what others have said. But algae grows when there are too many nitrates and phosphates. To treat those problems is do regular weekly water changes of 20% to 30% or so. Secondly, if you have a canister filter or your filtration system accepts different kinds of bag filters, it is good to use specialized bags that focus on nitrates and or phosphates. Thirdly, light is also a factor. Don't keep your aquarium lights on for more than 8 to 10 hours a day. More than that the algae will start to thrive. Also consider where your aquarium is located... some people put them in front of windows where direct sunlight lights up the aquarium. Sunlight will speed up algae growth. Doing these things will help a lot and as the weeks go by your water will get cleaner and less and less algae will form and the old algae will die off from lack of nutrition. Unfortunately there is no easy cure-all for algae, its a matter of keeping tabs on your water quality and creating the environment that algae does not thrive on. Some products that kill algae are very bad and can poison your fish. And even after that the do not treat the core problem which is keeping the water quality in best possible condition.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

I was just reading Raymond's thread labeled dark green sheet algae. This sounds like what is in my tank.

Is this algae he is talking about is BGA?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

BGA or blue-green algae is the type that usually is in sheets or very thick. Based on his description and yours they both sound like the same type.


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## fishboy (Jul 15, 2012)

If it keeps growing, maybe you could consider a chinese algae eater- he did fine with my brother's white convict and now a 6 inch redtail.


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm also fighting a bad algae problem in my 10 gallon quarantine tank. Currently, there are only 3 tiger barbs and 1 oto fish in it. The barbs had to be treated for fin problems and I treated with Maracyn II which IS an antibiotic and the meds did not kill out the algae. Lights are only on for about 7 hrs per day. Weird thing is, this algae stuff on the plants is really thick and dark...nearly blackish looking and has a gritty texture. It's not black beard or hair algae as I've had hair algae before and know what that looks like. I've also had problems with what seems like white hard water deposits (I have moderately hard water) on the leaves. I've tested for phosphates and the result was 0.0ppm and nitrates are never above 40ppm. I usually change close to 50% of the water in that tank a week. 

Nave, I've "borrowed" one of the pics in your gallery (thanks!) that shows exactly what the algae on the anubias looks like in my tank...just as it does in your picture. I've tried wiping it off and it's nearly impossible to remove. As far as I can tell, there is never any on the substrate..just the plants and glass. New tank syndrome doesn't apply to this tank as it has been set up continuously for at least a year. 

Tomorrow I'm going to do a water change and remove the plants and clean them off...maybe try a vinegar soak followed by a good rinse? I'll have to let you know how well that works.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Antibiotics do work on BGA. Although BGA stands for blue-green algae it is cyano bacteria, which is actually not an algae at all. Since antibiotics are anti-bacterial and this is why it works.

There are multiple types on the anubias plant in this photo. I'm guessing that most of these leaves were present when the plant was placed in the tank. The plants can take a little while to adjust and acclimate to the tank and this is usually why older leaves succumb because they really aren't growing and can be stunted until the plant adjusts. Since in most cases algae takes hold on leaves or stems that are unhealthy to some level, this is why I believe this plant looks like it does. New growth and how the algae is on those leaves is the main indicator of the state of your tank in regards to algae.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

The anubias was a plant took from another tank I had clipped from. The other tanks anubias has this same algae but the BN pleco a keep it rather clean. Is this other green algae I have in the tank BGA or is it hair algae? 

Since I have put a timer on my lighting and added a few more plants it seems the the algae is slowly but surely dying off and removing itself.


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## Nreal (Sep 3, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> I have always believed it is a bad idea to buy some type of creature/s to take care of a problem that you already have and use of any chemicals is not even a consideration. Some things can help, but cannot usually keep a problem from happening if it is as fast growing as you say.
> 
> Algae problems are best controlled by the light. Can you start by posting what light you have? Bulbs, kelvin, wattage, type, etc? How long do you leave it on for? What type/s of algae is it exactly? Can you post a pic of your tank?


Are you saying that one should not use chemicals or of the use and finding that they did not help then one should not think of using them at all?


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Algae in the Planted Aquarium-- Guitarfish


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## Nreal (Sep 3, 2013)

Um, just hold on there...

Using flourish excell i eliminated my BBA and my ("[Your] plants will not survive using elevated amounts of excel" said dozens of "expert" posts) Well, my plants are doing fantastic at 200% the recommend dosage. My fish are colorful and growing, appetite is tremendous and no ill effects. Water is changed at 30% every 4 days. I CANNOT recommend using any product at above recommended levels- though my experience suggests otherwise. Granted i have no inverts and all fish are of the "all scales" kind, (no puffers yet) though after MONTHS AND MONTHS of trying to find some way to destroy this bastard algae-THE BLACK BEARD ALGAE IS THE WORST.. I have won the war. I no longer see it, i no longer am concerned with it. Telling anyone to eliminate their use of chemicals in a tank... Using a chemical SOLVED my worst problem and is at the same time helping the ecosystem at same time.
-Only in the most fragile of ecosystems- with all discus or all inverts or fragile planted tank use with extreme caution- 
but with any typical system, with a very common set up, use them. 
Add premium activated charcoal to absorb the Meds before introducing another, sure, very good idea. But do not simply toss the idea and say implement a new plant or fish to take care of it... To say that is just as to have years of growing perfect Water Wisteria and say "just introduce a few common goldfish" only known to some- a common goldfish will destroy this plant.
Understand the whole issue first, then slowly eliminate factor by factor using the most destructive first. Chemicals are not the most destructive factor, and only using chemicals, IMO/IME still IS NOT THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE.

****You need to change your water using tap water that has ben sitting in a container for 24 hours, and change 30% every 5 days. You need to get rid of any uneaten food, you need to have a filtration process that uses chemical, biological and mechanical means and have the water fed threw this system 4 times per hour, you need to watch the water conditions (API Testing Kit) you need to set your lights on a timer for around 10 hours on, and use common sense. Doing all this will solve many issues.

In my case, many water changes and "all lights out" did nothing for my issue with severe problems. Being a seasoned aquarist led me to other sites and thinking on my own... Ohh! And Overuse of chemicals made everything perfect...


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Real sorry I didn't take pictures of it because people ask what it looks like all the time. But my tank had BGA and it finally
went nuts and began to cover everything. I was advised about the antibiotics but told to use that last. The thing which was
suggested I try first was a complete blackout. All lights off and a black plastic garbage bag over the tank for 5 days(at least).
A few of the plants had limp leaves around the bottom and a couple had leaves that were turning yellow. All recovered.
NO MORE BGA...all dead. However...one small spot returned, but like less than a dime. It went away after 4 days but came
back two days later an inch over in almost the same spot. I was also told that I should check the water and do more water
changes. These I have done but I replaced about 35-45% of the plants/w an other kind which are just starting. But this
tank does not get overfed. Every three or four days I feed frozen bloodworms to the Banded Pigmy sunfish in there.
More than they need but my ram snail eats the rest. Trying new lights as I have had a Marineland Double Bright on it,
but also a T8/w an Aqueon Full Spectrum bulb. Even/w both the Dwarf Sags have not made a single new leaf since I did
the blackout. They are mostly under the ML/DB. So tomorrow it gets "put up" and replaced by a T8 so there will be two of
them on it again like it started out. But I will tune down the bulbs this time. Starting to get a feel for which ones will cause
the algae when used in combinations. Still goes by those other factors..how many plants/water changes/how much you feed etc.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nreal said:


> Um, just hold on there...
> 
> Using flourish excell i eliminated my BBA and my ("[Your] plants will not survive using elevated amounts of excel" said dozens of "expert" posts) Well, my plants are doing fantastic at 200% the recommend dosage. My fish are colorful and growing, appetite is tremendous and no ill effects. Water is changed at 30% every 4 days. I CANNOT recommend using any product at above recommended levels- though my experience suggests otherwise. Granted i have no inverts and all fish are of the "all scales" kind, (no puffers yet) though after MONTHS AND MONTHS of trying to find some way to destroy this bastard algae-THE BLACK BEARD ALGAE IS THE WORST.. I have won the war. I no longer see it, i no longer am concerned with it. Telling anyone to eliminate their use of chemicals in a tank... Using a chemical SOLVED my worst problem and is at the same time helping the ecosystem at same time.
> -Only in the most fragile of ecosystems- with all discus or all inverts or fragile planted tank use with extreme caution-
> ...


I think that using that much Excel is unnecessary from a preventative standpoint. I could see using that from a corrective point. Putting the recommended amount in everyday should prevent things once you have gotten it under control. If not, you possibly have too long of a lighting period or way too much light for your tank and may need CO2. The easier bet, if you have too much light that is, is to cut your lighting period to no more than 6hrs per day.

It will affect plants. Crypts will melt and in the past I have seen it burn the edges of anubias plant, which is a very tough plant.


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Just an FYI...decided enough was enough today with this BBA, green hair algae and whatever else was in my 10 gallon. Did 50% wc and took out everything even driftwood. Soaked all plants in 50/50 peroxide and water, then soaked again in fresh water with dechlor. I'm pretty sure a lot of the problem has stemmed from this LED light I put on this tank awhile back..yea, I had some algae issues before the light, but nothing like this stuff. I see you've had trouble with LED too Raymond!. Guess it's a waiting game now to see if it reappears. If it does, black out time!


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