# So starting over.....



## aerithny (Apr 8, 2012)

Hello,

First off thank you so much for your help everyone. I really really appreciate it. I hope to one day be as knowledgable with fish as I am with birds and gardening (I am an expert in some things!!!).

So I am down to four fish and expect I may loose them all. So here are my questions starting over:

If all DO die, should I still keep the water that had ich and just turn up the heat above the 84.1 it is currently at, clean the plants, decorations and gravel? If so, should I boil the decorations? Do I clean the tank with anything else special?

Or do I dump the water and start ALL over. Cleaning everything with hot water?

I know if I loose my pleco, I still want another one, then I still want fancy tail guppies. Any suggestions if I should still do tetra, or is there another recommdation for a hardy beautiful fish to try?

I have a 30 gallon.

Thanks!!!


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

First of all, sorry for your bad luck.
There's not enough information in your post for me to determine if Ich was the only thing that went wrong with your tank - even if that's according to the best of your knowledge.

If the only problem was Ich - then treating the water according to the instructions on the bottle should be sufficient to eradicate it if you're using a reputable anti-ich med - if you combine this with good vacuuming of the gravel.

As you still have some fish left though, this leads me to believe that you might be getting something wrong with how you're treating the Ich and that you may be causing some of the damage unknowingly.

If you're using something like Protozin for treating the Ich, then an increase in temperature will compound any problems you might have with oxygen levels n the water for instance which is why I personally think there is something wrong with the idea of treating AND raising the water temperature above 80 degrees.

Other things that could have gone wrong are your tank's cycle and diseases that you didn't see symptoms of. 

I know my reply is pretty sparse thus far and you probably want to just get started with doing things right - sure, you could sterilize everything and start again - but hope that you have a bit more hope in saving what's left (including the cycle) than that.

Please post back with water parameters, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia levels, whether or not the filter was running permanently and how you ended up where you are.

Hope this helps.
cb


----------



## aerithny (Apr 8, 2012)

Hello )

I am at work now (bad me) so I can't do a new test. I can tell you that I am treating with Ick Guard tablets by Tetra. I am doing this every 24 hours follwed by a 25% WC. I was informed on the board to up the temp to about 85 to help kill the ich bacteria that has caused white spots on my fish. We took out the carbon and....I can't recall the other item at the moment.

I agree, I would think keeping the water and just cleaning the gravel and decorations well would be best, as I have a cycle started which I do not wish to re-start, but not having the best knowledge I just wanted to be sure.

The tests last week came back with a 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. This test was done at my petsmart....heh...so who knows.


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

When that test was performed, your tank had not cycled (if you believe the results). Until your tank is capable of producing Nitrate, it's best not to add fish as the tank hasn't cycled.
The tank will not cycle without a source of ammonia - in spite of all good intentions.
Without a test for nitrite and ammonia, you cannot cycle an aquarium safely without big daily water changes - and you also risk damaging/torturing the fish.


Take a good read of the first two posts here: (This forum)
New To The Freshwater Aquarium Hobby - Aquarium Forum

Then take a trip by the chatroom sometime and make sure you've understood it.

I know this sounds a little strong in terms of advice but I'm honestly not cross with you - just with another LFS not really doing their job. Welcome to the hobby where nearly everyone ends up killing a fish or ten.
cb


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Get your own testing equipment and don't use strips.

TBH, for me Ich has been the easiest thing I have ever treated in any of my tanks, but only had it show twice in 2yrs. I have used the high temp with salt method and I have used meds (Quick Cure). IME, the natural method takes too long to work and if your Ich has progressed to a severe point then this method may not work too well if a fish is pretty eaten up with it.

A higher temperature in your water depletes oxygen levels. So does adding any type of med. This is why it is not a good idea to do both at the same time as it can end up killing your fish just from oxygen depeletion in your tank. In either method it is suggested that you add a powerhead or situate your filter to cause the greatest surface disturbance. This type of info is all over the net in the treatment of Ich. Also, you should read up on the Ich protozoa so you know how and what stage of its life it can be killed. You really do need to understand the 4 stages to effectively treat it.

If it were me, I would start to bring down your temp, do at least a 50% water change and immediately start treating with Quick Cure. If you can't find the med, then I would just continue on the same plan you are on. You do need to increase water circulation though.


----------



## aerithny (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to read the link about ich while on my lunch break. 

More backround which I left out on my other post:
I had my tank cycling (or what I was told was cycling) for three weeks before I added any fish. I added clarifier and water conditioner petsmart recommended and put some flake food in the tank as well. All of the decorations were soaked multiple times in hot water and the gravel I had boiled. I then took my water in and they tested it, telling me the results I gave you and said I was ready for fish within the week. I was experincing a bacteria bloom according to them and I was super concerned with the cloudiness.

Then I went with my fiance (who did all of this for me for our anniversary, another reason why this all sucked so much) and bought all of those 24 fish.

I plan on adding four fish at a time this time around also I think I will lower the 24 fish to 20. So I guess the last question here is, how do I know when I am ready to begin adding new fish? What type of test results should I be seeing? 

I will do a 50% wc when I get home, read up on the ich links, vaccum the gravel and boil the decorations I am re-using. So I should lower the temp then?


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Sorry for your problems.

I would recommend you take a look at the methods in the link in my signature. 

To me that would be a good way to start over.

best tank ever.

still just my .02


----------



## em1y386SX (Apr 10, 2012)

Sorry for your problems,

Ok, here is my thoughts on it, the ich has most likely been caused by stress, which has in turn been caused by an incomplete cycle.

I would suggest keeping the temp constant and doing a 50% water change, leave it 2 days, then do 25% water change, leave it another two days and do another 25% water change, that should bring your ammonia levels down, run a test with a liquid test kit to check this.

The other important thing is to feed sparingly like once every 2 days, a very small pinch of food, watch the fish and time them, how long it takes, any food not eaten in 5 mins should be netted out.


----------



## aerithny (Apr 8, 2012)

Now that is a question, I have seen online and on the food to feed the fish 2 times a day. I did this as I read it, however my experience in the past with my goldfish was feeding once a day, I did it when I woke up every morning. How do I know they are getting enough food? What should I start with?


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

aerithny said:


> Now that is a question, I have seen online and on the food to feed the fish 2 times a day. I did this as I read it, however my experience in the past with my goldfish was feeding once a day, I did it when I woke up every morning. How do I know they are getting enough food? What should I start with?


One thing to remember is that in the wild fish sometimes go for extended periods with little to no food.

but in an aquarium we tend to overfeed and IMHO most of aquarium problems and fish losses can be traced eventually to just plain adding too much food.

so if you fish are healthy and active they are most likely getting enough food.

If you are getting algae (in a planted tank), have fungus or white cottoney despoites on the substrate, snail blooms, or cloudy water you are probably adding too much food. (and probably too much light in the cloudy tan case)


In extreme cases if the fish are listless and breathing heavy that too is probably too much food but in that case you may have to take immediate other actions to save the fish.

so chances are you are overfeeding not underfeeding. especially if you have a well planted tank.

Still just my .02


----------



## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

You could have had an ammonia problem, or maybe sick fish from the store. You certainly added too many, too quickly. 
This time, I would stay the course for a few more days. With a half decent filter, you won't deplete the oxygen enough to harm the fish. Plus, you don't have many fish now ;-(
Do big water changes once the spots are gone, and very gradually drop the temperature. Very gradually add fish. It's a garden, and you need to let it take. You've got to bring it along slowly, with a gardener's patience. It'll probably take you a couple of months, but hey, my Canadian flower garden looks like a mud pile today. I'm willing to wait a few weeks to see it in its glory.... tanks and gardens are very similar, at least in the mindset we need to make them work.


----------

