# tank cycling help



## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay well out of all the years ive had tanks ive never truly cycled my tanks only left it running empty for a day or so and never had any problems (i know shame on me haha) but now that im setting up my 150 gallon tank and getting more expensive fish i want to be sure nothing goes wrong that was avoidable so im going to get an api freshwater masters kit but thats as far as i know what to do do i just let the tank sit empty and running for a few weeks taking readings until the levels are good and what are the proper levels btw? i know ammonia is supposed to be at 0 right? i could use some help as you can tell so if someone could tell me what to do i would appreciated it greatly thanks you!


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

to cycle your tank the way you want it i would do a fishless cycle, you fill the tank up and create an ammonia source to help the start or your nitrogen cycle, get an ammonia that is free of perfumes, colors, or any other additives, i dont want to say how much to put in at a time because im not too sure at the moment myself, doing a cycle this way will usually be faster than a fish in cycle would and would be better to build the benificial bacteria to sustain the more expensive ( usually more delicate ) fish that you are looking at keeping, in no way is that complete and you should read up on cycling your tank on your own first hand, a website that helped me out alot when i jumped into the hobby is Firsttankguide.net it wouldnt hurt to give it a look and it'll explain everything alot better and more thorough than i have, good luck with your 150g.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cycling does not mean letting the tank run for a period of time. It refers to the nitrogen cycle. I would suggest reading up on it to understand what your tank will have to go through. The cycle doesn't start until an ammonia source is introduced into the tank. Fish provide that ammonia or you can use an alternate source as mentioned and do a fishless cycle.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

You have a very large tank so I would use one fish per 10 gallons. If your tank is below 76F use White Mountain Clouds as cycling fishes. Above 76F use Female Bettas. If you have a high ph use Mollies or Guppies. Add some plants, Val or Java Fern are good. Plants help temper the cycling process.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's a good link on some reading you can do about the aquarium nitrogen cycle:

The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I would do a planted tank. If you have fish that will attack plants protect the plants with some kind of refugium which could be just a partition.

By balancing out and stabilizing the system with live plants the cycle is much easier and the fish do better.


my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> I would do a planted tank. If you have fish that will attack plants protect the plants with some kind of refugium which could be just a partition.
> 
> By balancing out and stabilizing the system with live plants the cycle is much easier and the fish do better.
> 
> ...


+1

More like 0.05


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

thechief said:


> okay well out of all the years ive had tanks ive never truly cycled my tanks only left it running empty for a day or so and never had any problems (i know shame on me haha) but now that im setting up my 150 gallon tank and getting more expensive fish i want to be sure nothing goes wrong that was avoidable so im going to get an api freshwater masters kit but thats as far as i know what to do do i just let the tank sit empty and running for a few weeks taking readings until the levels are good and what are the proper levels btw? i know ammonia is supposed to be at 0 right? i could use some help as you can tell so if someone could tell me what to do i would appreciated it greatly thanks you!


Hello chief...

My resident "cycling" expert Dave, tells me cycling a tank is really simple, just takes about six weeks. Set up the tank with the appropriate heaters, power filters and lighting close to 2 watts per gallon of tank volume and three inches or so of standard pea gravel, some stem plants like Water wisteria and Pennywort and get some real hardy fish like Zebra Danios and Platys, say a dozen total and you're good. 

Cycling your tank with fish at least gives you some activity in the tank and if you pay close attention to your water tests and do the water changes, the fish will be fine.

The fish will produce ammonia from their wastes and that begins the cycle. Just test your tank water daily and when you see traces of ammonia or nitrites, change about 25 percent of the water to bring the water conditions back into the safe zone. 

Follow this routine until your ammonia and nitrites read "0" consistently, then add some more fish. Back to the daily testing, until your ammonia and nitrites remain at "0", until your tank is fully stocked. 

A 150 G tank and large, frequent water changes will support quite a large number of fish.

Good luck. Above everything else, have fun.

B


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## imp1979 (Dec 28, 2011)

Cool, I was just going to post a thread asking about getting the cycle started, but here's one already! I just filled up a 55 gallon tank and the filters are going, but I used gravel that was in my 75 gallon tank for over a year, but the said gravel was sitting in a bucket in the garage for about two weeks(I switched the gravel out of the 75 for different gravel). Question is, is the beneficial bacteria still present on the rocks, or did it die off from being outside of the water? Thanks!


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

imp1979 said:


> Cool, I was just going to post a thread asking about getting the cycle started, but here's one already! I just filled up a 55 gallon tank and the filters are going, but I used gravel that was in my 75 gallon tank for over a year, but the said gravel was sitting in a bucket in the garage for about two weeks(I switched the gravel out of the 75 for different gravel). Question is, is the beneficial bacteria still present on the rocks, or did it die off from being outside of the water? Thanks!


Hello imp...

There may be some beneficial bacteria in the gravel, but conditions in your garage aren't the best, so don't rely on it. It's best to allow the bacteria to grow in the filter media, specifically in the sponge or polyfiber (biological) media. The material in the bottom of the filter. This takes time, so patience is a good thing now.

B


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## imp1979 (Dec 28, 2011)

Okay. I have a tetra whisper ex70 and a top fin 60 power filter on my 75. Gonna take the top fin 60 and put it on the new 55. The Top Fin filter has been on my 75 tank for over a year. This should help. Thanks, and oh sorry for hijacking the thread lol. Oh we also have a 10 gallon tank that is heavy planted(fake ones) so we took a few out of there and put them in the 55, also a couple of large river stones.


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## AllieLovesFishies (Nov 6, 2011)

There are lots of different ways to set up new tanks, I would suggest going with the planted cycle:
Aquarium Cycling
There is of course, like I said, other ways to cycle the tank, like slowely adding hardy fish, or adding ammonia, and things like that. But, both of those are harder to do then just to pick up a few hardy plants at the pet store. I personally use the planted cycle when setting up my tanks, but it is up to you hope it helps!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

AllieLovesFishies said:


> I personally use the planted cycle when setting up my tanks, but it is up to you


It's also called a silent cycle. There's tons of threads about it on the forum


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay i have a question if i do a fishless cycle i have to put im pure ammonia right? and keep it around 4 or 5 ppm? so when i put the water in i wouldnt use dechloranator right? i know the one i have removes chlorine and ammonia so would i just not put any of that in until the cycle is completed?? im confused about this help me out or would it just be easyer to put fish in there and do it the old fashion way? haha


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

thechief said:


> okay i have a question if i do a fishless cycle i have to put im pure ammonia right? and keep it around 4 or 5 ppm? so when i put the water in i wouldnt use dechloranator right? i know the one i have removes chlorine and ammonia so would i just not put any of that in until the cycle is completed?? im confused about this help me out or would it just be easyer to put fish in there and do it the old fashion way? haha


From what I understand about the fishless cycle you put in pure ammonia so you get an initial concentration of ammonia. Say 3-4 ppm or so. Then as the bacteria build up the tank will adjust so the amount you're dosing is consumed by the bacteria. After the nitrItes drop down you then switch from dosing the ammonia and stock up the tank with fish.

But ask others here as that is just what I have read.

I use the planted silent cycle which involved a mix of fast growing plants and slower growing plants. You stock the tank with plants then wait a week for the plants to get established. Then (10g) add a single fish and not add food for a week. After that you (kinda) stock up the tank (live bearers initial male then 2 females, tetras like neons or danios an initial single fish then 4 more) and start feeding 1 flake per day.

What happens you get low to no ammonia/nitrIte spikes that last at most a day. But an initial nitrates spike. then as the bacteria build up nitrates drop down to numeasureable levels.

I just prefer the planted cycle because it is so easy and stable enough that it corrects operator error within very large operating conditions.

my .02


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay well now i think im just going to do a cycle where i put in some hardy fish and let nature take its course so i put in the dechlorinator right? and do i need to do anything else besides feed and clean the tank? and test it every other day or so until the readings are good?


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

thechief said:


> okay well now i think im just going to do a cycle where i put in some hardy fish and let nature take its course so i put in the dechlorinator right? and do i need to do anything else besides feed and clean the tank? and test it every other day or so until the readings are good?


Hello again chief...

The method I gave you in an earlier post is the traditional cycling method. Just review it. Your tap water will need to be treated with Seachem's Prime or another product that removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine from the water. Just feed the fish a little, a couple times a day, no more than they can eat in a minute or two. Test your tank water every day and do your water changes as needed to keep the water conditions stable.

If you need any help, just ask anyone on this forum.

B


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

thechief said:


> okay well now i think im just going to do a cycle where i put in some hardy fish and let nature take its course so i put in the dechlorinator right? and do i need to do anything else besides feed and clean the tank? and test it every other day or so until the readings are good?


Hello again chief...

The method I gave you in an earlier post is the traditional cycling method. Just review it. Your tap water will need to be treated with Seachem's Prime or another product that removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine from the water. Just feed the fish a little, a couple times a day, no more than they can eat in a minute or two. Test your tank water every day and do your water changes as needed to keep the water conditions stable.

If you need any help, just ask anyone on this forum.

B


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> ...that removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine from the water...


A quick correction:

Most tap water conditioners that "fix" ammonia don't actually remove it. Rather, they contain chemical compounds which bond with the ammonia molecules, rendering them non-toxic to fish and "lock" the ammonia (see API Ammo-Lock for any questions). However, ammonia-locking agents like that make the ammonia harder to be consumed by nitrifying bacteria, while they will still show up in ammonia testing kits. Result: you will never be sure when your nitrogen cycle is fully established, because the tank will always test positive for ammonia. And, at the same time, your fish can still be killed from nitrite, the second stage in the nitrogen cycle.

Now, on to the good stuff...

I would suggest using a dechlorinator ONLY. No ammonia neutralizing agents, no biological supplements, and no aquarium salt. In my opinion, it keeps water changes pretty simple and hassle-free - you empty your tank, fill buckets, add dechlor, and siphon buckets into tank. Presto!

You can do a fish-in cycle if you wish, using hardy fish. I hope you know you're intentionally setting them up to be poisoned and *hoping* they survive. That's cruel in my opinion, but that's just me. I know people on here who use feeder goldfish to start their cycle and both the dead and live contingent will end up getting fed to their oscars or turtles anyways. Keep in mind that once your cycle is established, you're stuck with the fish you used unless you can find somewhere to donate them (most local pet stores will accept donations, but big stores like PetsMart and PetCo will not).

Just my thoughts. Don't want to rub anyone the wrong way, and I apologize if I do...


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> A quick correction:
> 
> Most tap water conditioners that "fix" ammonia don't actually remove it. Rather, they contain chemical compounds which bond with the ammonia molecules, rendering them non-toxic to fish and "lock" the ammonia (see API Ammo-Lock for any questions). However, ammonia-locking agents like that make the ammonia harder to be consumed by nitrifying bacteria, while they will still show up in ammonia testing kits. Result: you will never be sure when your nitrogen cycle is fully established, because the tank will always test positive for ammonia. And, at the same time, your fish can still be killed from nitrite, the second stage in the nitrogen cycle.
> 
> ...


Hello Giz...

Thanks for the comment. Specifically, the water conditioners will detoxify the ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. Seachem calls this removal in their "Prime" ads. Anyway, for our purposes, we don't care so much about why it works, just that it does work.

The hardy fish used to cycle a tank are fine as long as you monitor the water chemistry and do the prescribed water changes as soon as there's a trace of pollutants in the water. 

The cycling environment is no different then doing large and frequent water changes during the life of the tank. You simply stay ahead of the waste by flushing large amounts of pure, treated water through the tank. This simple routine guarantees the stability of the water and this is the most important thing if you want to maintain a successful aquarium.

Just a thought.

B


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> 1. Anyway, for our purposes, we don't care so much about why it works, just that it does work.
> 2. The hardy fish used to cycle a tank are fine as long as you monitor the water chemistry and do the prescribed water changes as soon as there's a trace of pollutants in the water.


1. Agreed

2. Agreed as well, however in my opinion PWCs will need to be done multiple times weekly during a nitrogen cycle establishment and PWCs take time. Plus, with anything bigger than 20 or 30 gallons, buckets can really be a pain. Lastly, all those PWCs will stall the cycle somewhat by lowering concentrations in the water, taking the bacteria longer to set up shop and fully be able to handle the bioload by themselves.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Gizmo said:


> 1. Agreed
> 
> 2. Agreed as well, however in my opinion PWCs will need to be done multiple times weekly during a nitrogen cycle establishment and PWCs take time. Plus, with anything bigger than 20 or 30 gallons, buckets can really be a pain. Lastly, all those PWCs will stall the cycle somewhat by lowering concentrations in the water, taking the bacteria longer to set up shop and fully be able to handle the bioload by themselves.



+1 (or so)

Water changes can handle parameter spikes but only if you are ready to do massive water changes. and have excellent water as well.

IMHO it is much better to use live plants to keep ahead of the ammonia being generated regardless of what bacteria is doing. The key is lotsa thriving plants, a few fish, and no food being added. And to let the plants condition the water for a week before that.

but hey that just what works for me

Worth at most .02


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

man i really do not know what route to go either fishless or put feeders in there and okay ill pick up some just pure dechloranator for that but the stuff i have is good to use on an already established tank right? and in yours guys opinions what is faster and easyer fishless or with fish?? i still have a few days before the tank will be set up so yeah i just need to figure out which route to go


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

thechief said:


> 1. the stuff i have is good to use on an already established tank right?
> 2. and in yours guys opinions what is faster and easyer fishless or with fish?


1. What do you have?
2. I would say a silent cycle is fastest, fishless next, and fish-in is longest. Reason being: Silent is where you have plants that start taking on the ammonia and nitrite from day 1. Fishless you can let your levels skyrocket without harm to anything, allowing your bacteria to really take off, and fish-in takes longer because you constantly have to keep the concentrations of ammonia and nitrite low, so as to not kill the fish. Alternatively, you could just leave the tank alone and lose at least half your fish, but I'm adamantly opposed to such practices. HOWEVER, fishless cycling takes patience, as you will want to get fish right away. With fish-in, you get the gratification of having the fish, but have to work harder to keep them alive.


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay what plants would you recommend i will probably do fishless over anything because all the talk about parasites and sicknesses from feeders got my a little scared hahah and i have "kordon amquel ammonia remover conditioner for fresh and saltwater removes ammonia chlorine and chloramines" thats what the front label says haha


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you're going fishless, it doesn't matter if you add plants from the start or a week or two into the proces...or, even after the cycle has started. In other words, there is no rush, no water changes, and fish health is not threatened.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Agreed. Take your time with the fishless cycle. Research exactly what you want to put in your tank, and we're always here to bounce ideas off of.


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay well guy at my lfs told me to speed up the process to use a sponge or any other bio media from a filter thats already in an established tank in the new filter and this will cycle the tank a lot quicker because all the bacteria is already on that would this work? if so i would much rather go that route seems alot easyer but also seems to good to be true haha


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

thechief said:


> okay well guy at my lfs told me to speed up the process to use a sponge or any other bio media from a filter thats already in an established tank in the new filter and this will cycle the tank a lot quicker because all the bacteria is already on that would this work? if so i would much rather go that route seems alot easyer but also seems to good to be true haha


Hello chief...

The person at the LFS is correct. By putting the used sponge or polyfiber (biological) media from an established tank into the new tank, you can instantly cycle the new tank. 

If you add fish to the new tank, do it slowly, especially if you're moving the used media from a small tank to a larger one. You want to make sure there's enough beneficial bacteria growing to handle the waste load of the added fish in the new tank. 

Test the water in the new tank daily to monitor the chemistry and do your 25 to 30 percent water change as soon as you notice a trace of ammonia or nitrites. When after several tests, the two consistently read "0", only then can you add a few, small fish. Then, you need to resume testing and the water changes until the new tank is fully stocked. As you know, even a trace of these pollutants in the water is enough to hurt your fish.

B


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Don't agree with the "instantly" comment. I don't think there is anything that does that unless you are moving everything from an established tank to another. It will definitely assist and may reduce the time slightly, but it DOES NOT instantly cycle your tank. I've done it.


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay update guys! i got my tank set up yesterday morning got all the water in it and let the filters run and heaters and everything for a few hours while i went and got another tank for my friend and came home and put some biomedia from another filter on my sister tank and put it in my filter and then i got decor from my already established tank put it in there and then let it run for like 15 mins and then i took all my evil fish that are on "timeouts" in other tanks for killing fish and bullying so i put all of them in the tank at different times intervals or like 15 mins and they were breathing a little heavy but after 5 mins they were fine swimming everywhere loving it today they ate no problems at all and i got my api master test kit early in the mail today and ran a few tests i have 0 ppm of ammonia 0 ppm or nitrites and 5.0 ppm of nitrates but i think those results arent really valid i need to wait a few more days right? anyways these fish are thriving right now and i think they are gunna be just fine but im gunna wait a while before i go drop a ton of cash on fish and have them die because of an ammonia spike


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

thechief said:


> okay update guys! i got my tank set up yesterday morning got all the water in it and let the filters run and heaters and everything for a few hours while i went and got another tank for my friend and came home and put some biomedia from another filter on my sister tank and put it in my filter and then i got decor from my already established tank put it in there and then let it run for like 15 mins and then i took all my evil fish that are on "timeouts" in other tanks for killing fish and bullying so i put all of them in the tank at different times intervals or like 15 mins and they were breathing a little heavy but after 5 mins they were fine swimming everywhere loving it today they ate no problems at all and i got my api master test kit early in the mail today and ran a few tests i have 0 ppm of ammonia 0 ppm or nitrites and 5.0 ppm of nitrates but i think those results arent really valid i need to wait a few more days right? anyways these fish are thriving right now and i think they are gunna be just fine but im gunna wait a while before i go drop a ton of cash on fish and have them die because of an ammonia spike


It's good you got a starting point. You will know more with future measurements.

I would also hold off of adding food for a few days.


my .02


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> It's good you got a starting point. You will know more with future measurements.
> 
> I would also hold off of adding food for a few days.
> 
> ...


okay thanks i appreciate it its hard to not feed them i love watching my bluegill eat but ill hold off for a couple of days and keep doing daily tests and see what happens how many days straight of stable 0 ppm do i have to wait like if im getting around the same results everyday for a week is it safe to put my real stock in there?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

you asked earlier what plants. To get things going I reccomend many many bunches of anacharis.


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## thechief (Jan 1, 2012)

okay still getting pretty much perfect readings my ammonia is at 0 nitrites at 0 and nitrates at about 15 and ph is at like 7 they fish i have in there now are doing great they have had no problems its been like a week and a half am i good to add my real stock yet??


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

thechief said:


> okay still getting pretty much perfect readings my ammonia is at 0 nitrites at 0 and nitrates at about 15 and ph is at like 7 they fish i have in there now are doing great they have had no problems its been like a week and a half am i good to add my real stock yet??


Hello again...

When cycling your tank with fish, you need to have consistent readings like you have. That means several tests at 0-0 and nitrates in the 40 ppm range. Only after several readings is it safe to add a few more, small fish. After adding the fish, you must continue to monitor the water chemistry daily and do your 25 to 30 percent water changes as soon as you have a trace of ammonia or nitrites in the water.

You follow the above routine until your tank is fully stocked. I like to add a couple of stem plants during the water change when the water level was low. It made planting a little easier.

Don't concern yourself with the pH, that's really not essential to the success of your tank. Just focus on the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings for now.

B


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