# Water changes/Top offs?



## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Is there a "condictioner" that can be added to tap water that'll allow it to be used for a salt water tank? Planning on a 10/20 gallon reef tank and I'm a little curious. I've seen it done on some youtube videos but that was also on a 500 gallon tank. Thoughts?


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Also I thought it may be good idea to have a bucket of water pre-mixing for water changes as well. I'm currently running a 40 gallon breeder freshwater tank and I use a 175gph powerhead in a 5 gallon bucket to pre-mix the water for top off's as well as the water changes. It's been working out great and I can monitor the water before adding it to the tank. So I figured I could do the same for the reef tank.


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

Using tap water in a reef system is very risky. Water conditions change and you want stability.
If you cannot afford the $120 for a reef quality RO/DI system then consider buying your RO/DI water and/or premixed saltwater from a trusted LFS. You can also buy distilled water at the grocery or in my area we have Water & Ice type stores on every street corner it seems. They are RO only but most do a very good job of removing TDS and its usually far better than a vending machine or bottled RO drinking water. You can pick up a blue water storage container at WalMart in the camping section that holds like 7 gallons and should work well for you.

If you use RO/DI there is no conditioning required for top offs. For water changes I use either 5 gallon buckets to mix in or I have a Rubbermaid trash can on wheels for large water changes that I mix up a few hours ahead of time.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you for the reply. I have two LFS's that I could buy water from so ill into that. Going with distilled water and storing it in a 7 gallon container, as you suggested will be good for top offs. When it comes time for a water change on my 10g tank, ill probably only do 2 gallons and for that I can use the LFS water? Or I can pre-mix the distilled with salt mix and add that? I would just have to make sure the salt level is right, right?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

joeyhatch11 said:


> Is there a "condictioner" that can be added to tap water that'll allow it to be used for a salt water tank? Planning on a 10/20 gallon reef tank and I'm a little curious. I've seen it done on some youtube videos but that was also on a 500 gallon tank. Thoughts?


For a non reef saltwater tank unconditioned tap water is fine. Actually, for a reef tank also but most recommend ro/di to get rid of copper and other nasties.

My 55g mixed reef ran for many years with tap water and no water changes. the key IMHO is to balance out and stabilize the system with plant life (macro algaes) and then basically leave it alone. sure I dosed the diy two part method but other then that I just let the system run.

One things that is debatable is that the maro algaes filter out the nasties which are then removed when harvested.

So all you have to do is setup the tank with macro algaes right from the start. then let the system run for a week to condition the water with no bioload. then add bioload slowly. And just replace the water that evaporates.

my .02


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

Bob, since TDS is not a measurement of anything specific and the national average TDS in tap water is approaching 250, suggesting tap water is not wise.
Yes, utilities must issue a water quality report by law bu that report is only a snapshot in time and usually a year old by the time you receive it. The report is also an average of teh samples taken in that time period and may not even be representative of the water in your neighborhood.

I am a water treatment plant operator and supervisor by profession with over 35 years in the industry and would not hesitate to drink tap water anywhere in the country but I would never think about putting it in my aquariums, been there done that and it was not pretty.


Tap water conditions change, a storm blows through and the plant adds more alum or ferric or who knows what to help treatment, quality goes down hill. Joe Contractor digs into a water main down the street and causes a massive leak, water quality suffers. The large industrial plant across town has a backflow assembly fail and causes a backflow of chemicals into the public water system, again water suffers. Your neighbor sticks a garden hose in a tree well or garden to irrigate plants and the utility shuts the water off for a reapir on the same street, when the water goes off the treewell siphons back to the water system, quality goes downhill.

The point is, you have no control over tap water quality and it can change without notice. With an inexpensive RO/DI system you have ultimate control over your water quality and it is stable all the time.

I can post a few pictures to illustrate some of what I am talking about, one is a municipal water treatment plant in Atlanta completely under water from flooding. Atlanta USUALLY has some of the best water in the country with a TDS less than 50 which is unheard of most places but even they can have problems. I have pics of fire hydrants being knocked off in traffic accidents or transmission mains bursting, or surface water sources contaminated with chemical spills or boat fuel. It doesn't matter and no matter how careful you or your utility are it happens every day. For $120, don't take that chance with hundreds or even thousands of dollars in rock, sand, corals, inverts and fish. Its a sad day when your tank goes belly up.....


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

AZ

understand the need to control the quality of water in our aquariums.

the only question is whether or not live thriving plants will suffice.

I maintain they will suffice and in fact that by forgoing water changes, the tank conditions will be better then if you use machanical filters (ro/di included) with water changes. 

To me you will have a balanced, stabilized tank with very low levels of copper and other nasties if you simply use living plant life to maintain the system.


Still just my .02


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Would it be a smart idea to start the 10 Gallon tank with 10 gallons of saltwater from the LFS? At $1 a gallon I figured why not? Thoughts? Thanks guys, Joe


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> AZ
> 
> understand the need to control the quality of water in our aquariums.
> 
> ...


You are correct they will thrive, but take it from someone who knows, so does all the bad sponge, algea and other crap. They actually take over the Live Rock, and the tank looks extremely nasty in no time at all. And your living plant life will not take in that tank, the crap will take over before it can actually take hold.
jmo


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

If it were just copper, nitrates and phosphates in the tap water it wouldn't be a problem but there is much more than that present in many waters.
I also kept saltwater tanks and my first reefs for about 20 years in tap water but constantly fought battles. After switching to RO only in about 1990 the difference was dramatic but the switch to RO/DI in about 1995 was also a big improvement.

Live plants help what is already present in the tank but why add contaminants unnecessarily with water changes and top offs? Lets be good stewards and provide the best we can for our inhabitants. We are taking them out of the oceans and placing them in a glass box with artificial light, flow and water. We struggle with the best lighting, rock, flow and water quality should be just as important if not more so.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

Still would like to hear your thoughts on getting 10gallons of water from the LFS to start the tank? Thanks guys great information so far. Starting to feel better about starting my nano!!!


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

If the LFS uses RO/DI to make their new saltwater its probably OK. I would ask several questions of them first though.
Do they use RO/DI? 
Will they show you the TDS of the water before mixing?
What brand of salt do they use and what is the specific gravity they mix to?


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

I was going to ask them the for the SG when getting it, that way I'll stay in that range. Also if I start with there water is it still safe to use distilled water as needed to top off and do no real "water changes"? With salt not leaving the tank, the distilled water should keep a good SG balance right? 

But I will find out and pick up there salt mix that way it'll all stay the same. Again thank you for the info. I feel that without you guys giving me the heads up on things, these guys at the LFS would be getting alot more of my money then they really NEED. LOL


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

Sure, using distilled for top offs is a smart move. If you have a protein skimmer and it is skimming wet, which is common at first until they become seasoned, keep and eye on the specific gravity/salinity as salt will be dumped out with the skimmate. It won't drop much but in a small system it doesn't take much either.


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## joeyhatch11 (Jul 27, 2011)

No skimmer. Was told not to bother because it's only a 10 gallon tank. Yeah this seems like it's going to be a smooth straight forward set-up and I can't wait to get the water and the rock. Looking like Monday/Tuesday. Hopping to get some nice tips this weekend to cover water and rock. Everything else is already taken care of!!!


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