# Mystery deaths



## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

I've had my 55 up and running for over a month now, and readings have been 0 on ammonia, nitrate and nitrate as of yesterday. I had 7 plays and a silver dollar, all doing well for weeks now, Last night, 4 of the platys died. The others are robust and eating. No change in the water chemistry. Water is clear and smells OK. I use the master test kit, ATI, and for all of its complexity, I never have seen much variance in its readings. I have followed directions to the letter. Seems odd.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You have had the Platys for over a month? Do you check your ph at all? Is you water hard or soft?


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> You have had the Platys for over a month? Do you check your ph at all? Is you water hard or soft?


Water is 7.2 and has been throughout. Temperature is 76, same as the house (we're in FL). Inert granite rocks, sand; the last 3 platys were in there only 10 days, and it was 2 of them that died.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

I do have glass covers (Marineland) with the plastic inserts, but I cut out areas for the filter intake/outtake and heater, so I think there should be enough oxygen.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

2 more Platys died, one remains, along with the Silver Dollar I started with. Still no ammonia reading. Did a 40% water change with prime. Opened up the glass cover. Very odd to me.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Old Silver Dollar died (about nine years old), and only one Platy remains--he looks good. Water chemistry after 50% change is fine. Maybe I overfed? No ammonia spike, and no changes within the tank. My exchanged Current Satellite fixture should be in later in the week. If this Platy survives, I might add a few more to see if I can get things back on track.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Very sorry to hear about Dollar and how this is working out for you.I'm a little boggled by the lack of any detectable nitrates?
We will assume your water test are accurate and then need to figure this out.I had a similiar problem in my last set up.I would add 1 fish and it would in die days.This happened 3 times in a row for me even with good water test also.I realise your platies and Dollar lasted longer, but wonder if there is something in the water we don't/can't test for.Being very frustrated myself with the deaths I finally just installed a large amount of carbon and ran it for a week.after that I had no more issues!
In basic aquarium keeping I do think carbon is useless,but if there is some contaminent or foriegn impurity in our water this is what carbon is for.So maybe adding carbon somewhere in filter if possible could help.Only use it for a week if you do.
Hopefully the platy survives,BUT if it doesn't and your tank is empty of fish I would take the oppurtunity to add some ammonia(2-4ppm)and watch what results you get.Hopefully it will convert and not be registered on test in 24 hours,but if it doesn't you may want to continue then with fishless cycling steps until you do register nitrates.
I think you did the right thing changing water even with good test,but it does to me re-enforce the "something" in your source water idea with the death of a long fish of yours.You are using the same source water you have been before with dollar?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Doesn't this tank have the same water that the Silver Dollar came from? Sorry for your loss. Would suck to lose a fish after 9yrs.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> Doesn't this tank have the same water that the Silver Dollar came from? Sorry for your loss. Would suck to lose a fish after 9yrs.


Thank you. Actually, Dollar was very aged, hump-backed, and about ready to go. I have used the same source of water, city water, that I have used before. It does go through a softener, but that was what I used two months ago. Bypassing is a bit difficult but it can be done. Thing is, I used that same water successfully with my old 37 gallon. As for carbon. I have a carbon pad for my 2217 I never used. Maybe that might help.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Water softeners are known to produce water with 0gH.Livebearers really prefer high gH or at least some.I would try to use water before the softner(by pass) as some have done ok with softened water but most end up with issues,mostly from the salt replacing calcium,and whatever the softener does(I don't own one so can't really speak from experience).
Possibly finding a way to add limestone to tank water(small amount in mesh bag in filter) will help.The water softener will also effect plants eventually.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Certainly worth a try, as it can be done. Just need to run the water a few minutes beforehand. I would imagine there are a lot of people in FL who use softeners as the city water here by itself can be very sulphrous and nasty smelling. Hard to say which is the worst of two evils.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Are all of your faucets softened? Most of the time outside face it's like hoses are not run through the softener. You could tap the line before the softener for your tank water.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I am properly using the Prime de-chlorinator in my water changes. The label says a capful (1 ml) for 50 gallons, and I have a 55, so I have been removing about 15-20 gallons, dosing the tank with a capful and a half of Prime, then adding back the water. Should I be dosing the water before it goes in (kind of hard with multiple buckets)? Or, should I just go to, say, 3 capfuls and then fill up. My sole Platy is recovered from whatever killed everyone else, making me think it is a dispersible water contaminant (like chloramine) versus a heavy metal or some weird thing that would remain and kill everyone. And, the fact that it took a month to manifest itself (although the 3 new Platys seemed to bring it all on) makes me thin: can I overdose on the Prime just to be safe?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

One capful is 5 ml which is enough for 50 gallons.so you are already using 3x as much as needed for water.But many who use pythons know that if you are treating source water in the tank then you should add enough prime for tank volume.You are still ok with the amount you are using.
Prime can be used upto 5 times amount needed for ammonia and nitrite removal according to the lable.When doing this the ammonia or nitrites will still show on test so don't go crazy.
You didn't add carbon or anything different recently?
Maybe you should take a sample of your water to a store that will test just as a double check.Whenever I get crazy numbers(0 or somthing real high) I always check the test on another tank to make sure it will read something different or accurate.You've been 0 on everything all this time which I think is a little funny?Have you checked the expiration dates on the tests?


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> One capful is 5 ml which is enough for 50 gallons.so you are already using 3x as much as needed for water.But many who use pythons know that if you are treating source water in the tank then you should add enough prime for tank volume.You are still ok with the amount you are using.
> Prime can be used upto 5 times amount needed for ammonia and nitrite removal according to the lable.When doing this the ammonia or nitrites will still show on test so don't go crazy.
> You didn't add carbon or anything different recently?
> Maybe you should take a sample of your water to a store that will test just as a double check.Whenever I get crazy numbers(0 or somthing real high) I always check the test on another tank to make sure it will read something different or accurate.You've been 0 on everything all this time which I think is a little funny?Have you checked the expiration dates on the tests?


The expiration date says 5/17. And, I agree that the lack of real readings has been troubling. I did get real readings the first week, but things quickly went to 0 after that. That said, I do not have a lot of faith in this Master test kit (which wasn't cheap). As for carbon, I never put in the carbon pad that came with my Eheim 2217. Ben suggested I do so in case of any toxins and I was considering it. Maybe I should just get a few black tetras and see how things go. I greatly appreciate your insight and hope your Swordtails are doing better. That sounds more like an isolated problem than a systemic condition. Just my two cents.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The only time that the test ever gave me "bad" readings I did something wrong.I appreciate your thought on the swords,I hope I can get them straight?


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

You will, and so will I. This is the wonder and mystery that we all love and which got us into this hobby to begin with. My first ten-gallon tank 50 years ago was a window into a strange and beautiful universe. And now, I'm in a place now where being occasionally horrified, dismayed, and incredulous are not necessarily bad things. May the adventure that is fish-keeping continue!

PS: Last Platy died. No more live-bearers, and no more test-kits, as I can't trust them. At least the Master API.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

sorry to hear of the last platy.I would take this time with no fish to dose some ammonia and see what happens?
If possible I would use you old filter to get a good amount of a decent grade/volume of carbon into the system also.
The test aren't all bad.Like I said I had the same problem with much quicker deaths in my new 120 reef tank.Put one fish in and it died in 2 days.Water tested perfect so I tried another fish(same kind royal gramma) and it died.Well I did it a third time and yea,fish died.The whole time water tested perfect(for reef quality).I added carbon thinking something I couldn't test for was in the water and 1 week later the stocking began without deaths.I only ran the carbon for 1 week.
We only test for known nutrients,not contaminents, so I really think something else was in the water?In this application carbon can do what it should be used for.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks, and I will be adding the unused carbon pad into my Ehiem 2217 straight-away. I may then try a few more platys (I don't want to be inhumane) after I do a water change--this time bypassing the softener (have to let the pipes clear first). I was considering going ahead with a planted environment, just low light stuff for now, to maybe balance things out. Still awaiting the exchanged return of my Current Satellite Plus (they said I had a bad controller); if the new light doesn't work out I will demand a refund and get a Finnex Furgeray Planted, which is probably what I should have done in the first place. Meanwhile, it is great to have feedback from fellow fish-keepers. As for the test kit, all is still reading 0s across the board. Back in the 60s and 70s, and when I was at the Long Beach Hatchery, we used to do the sniff test for water (and there were tons of tanks everywhere and no reliable tests that were inexpensive enough for mass use). Wildly inaccurate I'm sure, but probably not a bad idea even today. I hope your fish are well and thanks again for the carbon tip--also thanks to Ben for mentioning it as well.


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## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

They all ended up dead? I'm so sorry, that's terrible.


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

Threnjen said:


> They all ended up dead? I'm so sorry, that's terrible.


I put a carbon pad in my filter and will try again, as Petsmart's tests showed the same things as mine did and they were happy to refund my fish. Of course, I had to bring the bodies (this is starting to sound like an episode of Law and Order!); the last thing I wantto do is expose new fish to a potential hazard, whatever it is. Coralbandit says carbon did the trick for him in a similar situation with live-bearers, and I am going to stick with his and Ben's advice. Anyway, for $1.13 I lightly repopulated the tank with 3 platies and 3 mollies and after three days everyone seems happy and healthy and hungry. I'm watching the parameters twice daily but am going to cut back on the volume of water changes (to 25% a week) unless I see a change. I am also going to add Safestart and keep the carbon fresh for the time being. I am always suspicious of this FL water (I am on city, not well--like most homes), as I am sure others here from the area can attest. Good or ill, I will post my progress or lack thereof. Thanks for all the support.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sorry if you mentioned before, but did you drip acclimate them? Also, how is the 2217 working out for you?


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## Protues55 (Dec 26, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> Sorry if you mentioned before, but did you drip acclimate them? Also, how is the 2217 working out for you?


No, I didn't, but I took extra time with the bag and slowly introduced water into it over about 30 minutes, They swam out eventually on their own. As for the Eheim 2217, it is incredible. I followed a video from youtube and set-up was a snap. One tiny tug on the outtake and it filled super fast. A few days ago I opened it for the first time to put the carbon pad in, and that was super easy as well. Just turned off the power, unplugged it, turned the valves off, and drained it over the sink. The white pad was dirty after six weeks so I replaced it (I'd bought extras); once I connected the hoses and turned the valves back on it filled right up and primed right away. Incredibly quite! I know you told me how easy this would be, and you were absolutely right. The flow from the spray bar has rearranged the sand some, but nicely so, once I arranged the rocks accordingly. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cool, I know I like it. You can put the spray bar at the side of the tank. Doesn't bounce off the glass as quickly and usually will move stuff around less since the force of the water has more time to dissipate. Actually a cleaner look too.


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