# lost a fish any ideas



## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 gold tetras, 6 neon tetras, 3 blood fins, 1 rasbora, 1 unidentified fish, 1 kulhi loach and 1 pleco. There was a betta in there but it died. The betta had been in there for 15 days and the night before it seemd to be doing fine but in the morning it was dead. A dalmation mollie was added at the same time as the betta but it died after 7 days and I dont know why. I feed them tropical flakes one day and blood worms the next taking 1 day off a week. I dont know why the betta died. When we got it we picked one out that had damage to its tail, we didnt know it was damaged but when it was scooped out the LFS person said we could have a discount because something has been eating its tail. We got 2 bucks off. In the 2 weeks I had the fish the tail seemed to growing back very well then all of sudden the fish died, any ideas? What should I do? The fish did not look like it had been attacked. I replace 10 gallons of water every other week and I did that 1 week before the fish was put in the tank and 1 week after. All the other fish seem to be doing great. I tested my water after removing the dead betta and the temp is 78f, ph was 8.0, ammonia was less than .3 and nitrites were 0. here is the only pic I have of the fish, it was taken after the fish had been in there for about 1 week.


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## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

When you add the fish, I assume you drip acclimate them. How long did you take to acclimate the betta and the molly? Your pH is a bit high, so less acclimation time could have stressed them. 

It could also be that your tank is overcrowded. How big is your filter? And I'm sure you've heard this before, but do you know that plecos usually grow to be about two feet long? (Sorry, just mentioning it!)

I'm really sorry about your fish... The betta was beautiful. I hope you can find what killed him so that it won't happen again.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

When I add them I float the bag they come in in the tank for about 10 minutes, then I add some of my tank water to the bag the fish are in and let them float for another 15 minutes then I dump them in. They lived for 1 week and for 2 weeks so I thought I was acclimating them well enough. For filtering I have an undergraved filter and a HOB aquatech 20/40 power filter. Yes I have been told about the pleco and plan to rehome it. I've only had it for a few months so its still small, less than 3 inches. I had learned my lesson about researching fish before I add them, my tank came to me stocked and it had pleco in there that died on me so I just replaced it.


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## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

If there is a substantial difference between your tank water and the water from the store, then the fish need more time to adjust. I don't think there's a specific rule on time, but the goal is to keep taking out their water and adding your water at a rate of about 1/4 cup every 15 minutes or so, until their water's pH is the same as the pH in your tank (basically, until they're in mostly your water). The slower, the better.

I've heard that pH shock can take several days, even weeks, to kill a fish because it's really a secondary infection that does it. Also, you shouldn't add any of the store's water to your tank. It might introduce pathogens or parasites, so try acclimating the fish in a bucket or container and then netting them out. 

Glad to hear you're rehoming the pleco! I never knew they got that big, either, until I got into fishkeeping.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

OK thanks. Maybe it is ph shock. What do think my ph should be and what can I do to bring it down? I guess I was under the impression that neutral water was 7.0 so I was good since I was close to that. I guess I should ask my LFS what the ph is in their tanks. When I add water I use tap water and condition it with stress coat. I have a reverse osmosis drinking water systen at home, should I be using some RO water in the tank? I have heard that I shouldnt add LFS water to your tank but I guess I trust the fish store I go to and thought it would be more stressfull to the fish if I took it out of the bag, put it in a bucket then caught it with the net. But maybe I'll try it when I add a new betta. I really want to replace it but I am afraid it will die.


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## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

Oh, don't try to mess with the pH! Yours is a little high, but that's fine. Except for some very sensitive fish, most can adapt to pH, especially within the range that yours is in. Just take the extra time to acclimate them and they should be fine.

Something you could do to avoid having to net them twice would be to pour the water and fish into a container, then add some of your water and go from there. Then you'll only have to net it out once.

As for the RO system, I really don't know. Maybe someone else could answer that. 

Just take it slow when adapting fish to your tank. I've heard that for some, it takes hours. It's time consuming, but well worth it. Good luck!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

It could also be that you have a lot of fish in a 29g tank. 

What kind of pleco do you have? If it's a common pleco, he'll get to over 12" long, so you may need to rehome him.

Bloodfin Tetras and Rasboras need to be in schools, so 6+, but you are already over stocked, so maybe try re-homing them. That way, you will be able to lighten your bioload and the fish will be able to go somewhere where they can have proper schooling sizes.

Your Khuli loach also needs to be in a school of at least 3, but again, I wouldn't add anymore unless you re-home the Bloodfins and Rasbora - possibly the pleco too if he's a common.

It would help if you could get a picture of your 'mystery' fish, so we can let you know if he's appropriate for your tank or if he's killing the other fish.

For water changes, you should be doing that once a week. Usually 15-20% is sufficient. Drip acclimation can help so that fish don't die weeks or even a few months after being added.

So, I'm thinking it could be a combination of overstocking, water not being changed enough (even ammonia at .25ppm can have negative effects - it needs to be at 0ppm), and improper acclimation... possibly your 'mystery' fish as well...


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

There has been good advice given, I'd just add that bettas with long fins struggle if there is too much current in the tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

sschreiner5 said:


> OK thanks. Maybe it is ph shock. What do think my ph should be and what can I do to bring it down? I guess I was under the impression that neutral water was 7.0 so I was good since I was close to that. I guess I should ask my LFS what the ph is in their tanks. When I add water I use tap water and condition it with stress coat. I have a reverse osmosis drinking water systen at home, should I be using some RO water in the tank? I have heard that I shouldnt add LFS water to your tank but I guess I trust the fish store I go to and thought it would be more stressfull to the fish if I took it out of the bag, put it in a bucket then caught it with the net. But maybe I'll try it when I add a new betta. I really want to replace it but I am afraid it will die.


_Everything_ you talk about here can/will be alleviated if you conduct a proper drip acclimation. Refer to the sticky thread at the top of the general section.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

holly12 said:


> It could also be that you have a lot of fish in a 29g tank.
> 
> What kind of pleco do you have? If it's a common pleco, he'll get to over 12" long, so you may need to rehome him.
> 
> ...


Yes its a common pleco and I plan to rehome it. I am working on getting the school sizes to where they should be. The tank came to me with only 1 bloodfin and 1 neon so I have been adding them to get the school size up. the kulhi loach was single too and I've only seen it twice in 5 months. I did have 3 rasboras but two died, there was only of 1 everything except gold tetras when I got the tank. I think my 30% water chane every other week is working fine but i just got a test kit so I can track water quality so I know for sure. Every time I have brought water in be tested my LFS says its good and they seem to think my water changing is ok. 

I will try drip aclimation if I add a new betta. 

So how do I know if I am overstocked? Someone sent me to an online calculator and that says if I rehome the pleco I'm only at 68% stocked. My LFS says as long as my water quality is not jumping around and my ph and amonia are ok I am not overstocked, what do you think. I have plenty of places for fish to hide out.... my avatar is my tank and there are a few more pictures in my profile.

Also I will have to check my color charts to be sure but I think my amonia is 0 I said less than .3 because thats the loweset my color chart goes and my color was lighter than the chart. maybe it was nitrites that was less than .3. I am pretty sure my water is ok. I dont think the mystery fish is killing anything but he doesnt take any crap from any other fish, he is smaller but will chase the gold tetras if they try to chase him first. Here is his picture.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

snail said:


> There has been good advice given, I'd just add that bettas with long fins struggle if there is too much current in the tank.



There is not strong current in the tank the betta seemed to love to swim up stream from where the HOB filter dumped water back in. It also would swim where the powerhead would return warter to the tank, the betta seemed to love what little current I do have in the tank. It did not struggle to swim anywhere.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

One more question: if overstocking or water quality is the problem then why was it the betta that died? I thought they could survive in really bad water quaity? The betta seemed to be doing very well, its tail was growing back like gangbusters. So far everybody else is still alive and doing fine, I even saw the kulhi loach this morning!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Some type of Tetra. You should stop listening to your LFS. They obviously don't have a clue. Most don't even have experience keeping tanks besides what they do in the store and it is nothing like what you do at home.


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## sschreiner5 (Oct 11, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Some type of Tetra. You should stop listening to your LFS. They obviously don't have a clue. Most don't even have experience keeping tanks besides what they do in the store and it is nothing like what you do at home.


Yeah I am starting to wonder. I went in after work yesterday asking questions about stocking limits and water quality then asked about my dead betta. They were not much help on that. I did have some questions about the test kit I just bought and they had good info on that, at least it seemed good to me. Anyways I think they thought I was mad and wanted a free fish, not the case. The fish was 7 bucks then I got a discount cause of its tail, I bought the dalmation mollie at the same time cause I had a buy one get one free (less than $5) coupon. So I got two fish for 5 bucks but they both died. Really I'm not as concerend about wasting 5 bucks as I am dieing fish. I would have glady paid full price for both fish and still have them in my tank!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

With stocking, you want to stay around 80%. That way, you've got a good amount of fish and it's not so full that your water params' start to go wonky.

Put up a list of what you plan on having here on the forum - you'll get lots of advice as to whether it's too many or if you can add more.


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