# Plants won't grow



## JJBRO (Apr 9, 2011)

My Echinodorus'es won't grow. They develop new leaves allright, however they only get around 20-25 cm before they wilt - they should be much taller. I have planted some extra tall Echinodorus'es - they started by shedding their leaves and are now down to 20-25 cm as well. Green algae - threads have started invading now alos.
The fish are a mixture of different tetras - around 50. The are doing great.

The tank is 450 liters, 145cm long x 45cm deep x 60cm tall. Lightning 4 x 54W T5 tubes. Temperature around 27C. Light on 10 hours a day. 25% water changed every weekend, "vacuuming" the gravel.

I have tried different types of fluorescent bulbs, fertilizer frequency, light on duration, etc. - and I really need some good advice as to what I should try next. What am I overlooking?

Your help is appreciated!:animated_fish_swimm


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What kelvin are your bulbs?


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## JJBRO (Apr 9, 2011)

one is 10000 and the rest are 6000 as far as I can figure out


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

how long has it been planted? what's your substrate setup?

my Amazon Sword (common name for that species) pretty much just wilted for almost the first 2 months, and is starting to REALLY take off now. I'm dosing ferts once a week and run 2 watts per gallon for about 10 hours a day (on two 5 hour cycles), and they're loving it. I'm also running the "beaslebob" style substrate (a layer of peat moss, play sand, and gravel) so that probably helps


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## kubalik (Nov 25, 2010)

you may want to plant some root tabs, they have vary large root system and take up most of their nutrients through roots.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

A few things... 10,000K i dont think is as good as a 6500ish K bulb. Vacuuming that often isnt necessary and if they're rooted plants, they do get some nutrients from the leftovers in the gravel. It doesnt sound like you have enough lighting either. Maybe increase the number of bulbs you have from 4 to 6. Also, try dosing some liquid CO2 and see if that helps. It may. I did notice my snails dont do so well when i dose with it, i'm not fully sure yet so im going to dose again after i've seen their activity increase. It may be nothing though. 
What is your KH and GH levels? If they're not high enough they may not have enough nutrients in the water. The gravel tabs may work well too. What kind of substrate do you have? If you have straight gravel, then you dont have the necessary nutrients in it for root plants.. so you'll need to get those tabs. 
Do you have Under gravel filters? those MAY be an issue but its difficult to tell.


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## JJBRO (Apr 9, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> how long has it been planted? what's your substrate setup?
> 
> my Amazon Sword (common name for that species) pretty much just wilted for almost the first 2 months, and is starting to REALLY take off now. I'm dosing ferts once a week and run 2 watts per gallon for about 10 hours a day (on two 5 hour cycles), and they're loving it. I'm also running the "beaslebob" style substrate (a layer of peat moss, play sand, and gravel) so that probably helps


It has been planted for 1½ years now. The substrate is gravel only, different sizes, finest granularity in the bottom. I have never tried the peat moss, play sand set up.

About the wattage: having 4 x 54 W tubes on a close to 100 gallon tank I am close to your 2 watts per gallon. 

One thing that has been puzzling my mind about the watts per gallon is that my tank is tall - it is 60cm approx. 22 inches from light source to plant. That is a long distance for light to travel compared to a smaller tank where the distance is much smaller. This hooks up to the comment further down about me having insufficient light?


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

Yes, you may need more. I have a 55 gallon and its only 20 inches from light to bottom of tank and i'm running almost 3 watts per gallon. I tried 2 and it wasnt enough. yes, the deeper the tank, the more watts you'll need due to the water reflecting/refracting/absorbing the light. As posted before, your plants probably arent getting enough nutrients so you may try that also if you havent already. I've had to do that, add CO2, use iron, and put gravel tabs in, double my lighting (160 watts) and i'm still struggling with mine. You could supplement some of the lighting with LEDs (you'll need about 1/3 the wattage of an LED to equal the same light output as the t5) since they dont take as much room and you can stick them inbetween your light fixtures.


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## JJBRO (Apr 9, 2011)

phys said:


> Yes, you may need more. I have a 55 gallon and its only 20 inches from light to bottom of tank and i'm running almost 3 watts per gallon. I tried 2 and it wasnt enough. yes, the deeper the tank, the more watts you'll need due to the water reflecting/refracting/absorbing the light. As posted before, your plants probably arent getting enough nutrients so you may try that also if you havent already. I've had to do that, add CO2, use iron, and put gravel tabs in, double my lighting (160 watts) and i'm still struggling with mine. You could supplement some of the lighting with LEDs (you'll need about 1/3 the wattage of an LED to equal the same light output as the t5) since they dont take as much room and you can stick them inbetween your light fixtures.


I will have to do something about the light for sure. And the CO2 + gravel tabs. Are you running t5 bulbs - are what kind?


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm running t-12s actually. now that i think of it, you have 1800 more lumens per bulb than i have. So you have the equivelent of 2 more t12's. I would try fertilizers, CO2 and the other methods before you go and buy another light. You may end up finding ferts will be the solution and going with more light may increase algae. Liquid CO2 is a little expensive over time so you may want to try a DIY CO2 generator. Fertilizers are cheap though. I'd say, fertillizers first (liquid and gravel tabs), CO2, then more lighting. Go slow, it'll take a few weeks to see any good from each method.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

WPG doesn't appy in very many situations nowadays. Especially in the case of a T5HO fixture, which is what I assume you have and not just T5? I have only 312W total on my 125, but am in the low side of high lighting. T5HO fixtures far exceed most lights out there due to the quality of the reflectors, for what you get anyway.

Is this a T5HO fixture?


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