# Starting a 29 FW Planted Aquarium :)



## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi, I'm Rachel and have done research to start a 29 gallon...... the right way  I look forward to using this post to ask questions, post test results, get feedback, etc. 

I'm not new to fish keeping, however it has been awhile. And I have never had a planted tank or done a fishless cycle. I have read, read and read some more. I plan on doing a fishless cycle with ammonia (or is fish food better)? And, with a planted tank. Is there anything I need to do differently since it will be planted?

Here is the set up that I have decided on. Is this ok, of should I make changes?

29 gallon tank
Aquaclear HOB filter 200/50
HydorTheo Submersible Heater 150w
Lights - I'm not sure of the wattage but I was planning on trying a florescent strip from walmart that has on it aquarium/plants. I will check the wattage before I get it, I know I should have around 2 watts per gallon.
EcoComplete Substrate

I have also bought my thermometer, a API FW Master Test Kit and Prime

I have a piece of driftwood and I'm going to put a couple of rocks, would love the round, smooth river rocks, but unsure what yet. 

I'm leaning on getting the Deluxe Aquarium Plant Pack from DrFoster. It will have the following plants:
1 microsword or dwarf hairgrass (thinking about getting an additional one)
1 water sprite
1 anubias nana or anubias bareri round leaf
1 ludwiga - broad 
1 chainsword - narrow leaf
2 anacharis or hornwart
1 javafern
2 cabomba
1 red or green cryptocoryne
1 amazon sword

When I get past the cycle, I'm thinking about stocking with 2 bolivian rams, a school of tetras and kohli loaches. This is not set in stone. What other fish would go with this setup? And would the ones I'm thinking about go together?

I look forward to your imput and suggestions. And getting to know each of you. 
Rachel


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds pretty good so far.I know nothing on the fish you chose,but i do know much about betta species,lol.I have a 29 im setting up as well.My stock light is 8,000k natural daylight,17 watts,lol.This is way off for plants.It has a red tint to it.
Anywho,the plants sound great.Foster and smith is a great place to buy from.Ive not had any issues from them.I cant say anything about live aquaria though.If you feel like browsing aquabid for packages,you can look for bayleesfishes.He does great packages and has very healthy plants,high ratings and great packages.Plus you can email him if theres a particular plant in the package you dont want he will add something else instead.So pretty good customer service.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

Everything sounds good. I would recommend Neon and/or Cardinal Tetras if you're going to do Tetras - they give good color.

Also, I recommend doing a Quarantine Tank for your fish instead of just floating the bag(s) & dumping your fish.

Quarantine helps detect anything wrong with them if there is anything before putting them into & possibly affecting your display tank.

Also, what kind of co2 are you doing? DIY or pressurized?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Welcome back to the hobby!

Sounds like you're off to a great start. If you're going to go planted tank, may I suggest a T5HO light fixture? They are expensive (between $70 and $130), but your plants will thank you. WalMart's plant light fixtures are probably standard hood lights with special plant bulbs put in - decent lighting, but not exactly ideal for plants. You could go this way of course, but it will slow your plants` growth as they won't be getting all the light they need.

Consider CO2 and fertilizers for your plants as well. There are many posts on here about how to do DIY (do it yourself) CO2 using soda bottles, yeast and sugar. Fertilizers are a fun and very scientific way to get your plants all the nutrients they need. You don't need to start off with these suggestions, but keep them in mind once you get the hang of initial plant tending.

Your stocking ideas sound great! It'll be a very pretty tank. Make sure you add your fish slowly (3 per week), and consider a quarantine tank. You can get a full 10 gallon setup for dirt cheap on Craigslist, replete with filter, heater, hood, light, and gravel, most times. Quarantine tanks are useful simply because you have a spare tank, so you can isolate fish that are sick or are getting bullied, and if your main tank springs a leak or something else bad happens, you've got a spare. You might also be able to find a good light fixture on there, though I would recommend if you do buy one off Craigslist you replace the light bulbs.

For your fishless cycle - DO NOT ADD FISH! Add a mesh bag of raw seafood from the grocery store instead. This will "seed" the tank with an ammonia source so bacteria can colonize that will process the ammonia->nitrite->nitrate. To speed up this process, see if you can buy some used filter media from your local fish store (LFS), and a bottle of the Tetra SafeStart or some other tank starter wouldn't go amiss either. Handled properly, you could feasibly have a tank cycled and ready for fish in a week or a little more.

During the cycling process, test your water daily. And I keep a spreadsheet on my computer with my daily readings so I can track the cycle. It's fun - first you will see an ammonia spike, then a nitrite spike, then a nitrate spike. When the ammonia and nitrite readings are down to zero, do a 50% water change to lower your nitrates and add your first batch of fish. I would suggest adding the rams first, as they seem to be the hardier of the fish and could withstand any hostile tank conditions you might not have noticed.

There's my ramble, haha. I'm excited you're starting out on the right foot! No fishy deaths for you


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

ok, I've done more research and these are the changes.

I've been looking on aquariumplants.com and I'm going to order the following plants and I THINK, instead of using the ecocomplete that I'm going to use the aquariumplant.com's substrate. 

The plants are:

1 Amazon Sword
1 anubias nana
1 crypt wendtii, red
1 java fern
1 ludwigia, broad leaf
2 water sprite
2 anacharis
10 sagittaria subulata, narrow leaf

I'm planning on using the flourish products and will research using the CO2

Still looking for info on fishless cycling with ammonia..... with plants.
Filter, heater, etc that I ordered from Bigal's is on the way


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds like you've got things under control! If you have questions for us, feel free to ask


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like you are doing it the right way....slow and with a educated approach. Many different opinions here....all will probably work you just need to figure out which ideas work for you.

I wouldn't recommend a fishless cycle for a planted tank. That is of course if you plan to plant from the start before fish are in it. I would suggest it if plants come later however. The two things that you benefit the most from a fishless cycle is one, you don't tend to kill fish from high levels of toxins and two, you maintain high levels of toxins to drive the phases of the cycle faster without the need for water changes to save your fish. If you plan to get the plants in there and established before you put fish in the plants should handle any kind of normal cycle issues seen without plants. This will require a little patience on how fast you want it stocked of course. 

And...I think that it is hilarious that it has to be said to not add fish to a "fishless" cycle....isn't that the point? Once you put a fish in, can you still call it a fishless cycle? There is no 50/50 cycle (fishless/fish).

The lighting you had planned may work for the plants you have chosen, but as mentioned you may want more later. Low to medium lighting is okay, you just won't get real fast growth from some. I had seen it mentioned on a planted forum where it said that you should look at your light as a gas pedal for your plants. Higher the light the more gas they have to grow. Also, if you move toward higher lighting, CO2 may become a necessity to keep down algae and you may want it anyway to help your plants out. I have a DIY CO2 on my 29g and my drop checker indicates green, meaning it's adequate for now.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I wouldn't recommend a fishless cycle for a planted tank. That is of course if you plan to plant from the start before fish are in it. I would suggest it if plants come later however.
> 
> The two things that you benefit the most from a fishless cycle is one, you don't tend to kill fish from high levels of toxins and two, you maintain high levels of toxins to drive the phases of the cycle faster without the need for water changes to save your fish. If you plan to get the plants in there and established before you put fish in the plants should handle any kind of normal cycle issues seen without plants. This will require a little patience on how fast you want it stocked of course.
> 
> ...



Plants are coming before the fish. I ordered them this morning, so they should be shipped the beginning of this coming week.. My BigAl's order will be here Monday. and, my substrate (decided to stay with the EcoComplete) my LFS will have it for me Wednesday.

Soooooo are you saying, with plants that I don't need to do the fishless cycle*question as long as I limit the additions of stock SLOWLY? I've seen that stated some other places too.

If this is true, I need to work on my list and decide what? and when? hmmmm which brings to mind another question. Do they still make the BioSpira???? I had great results with that stuff years ago. 

I did buy an all glass hood last night. I had one that was 1/3 black (where you punch out places for the filter, heater cord, etc) then 1/3 clear, then front 1/3, the *door* also black. I figured I would have more area to put a light... or two.. depending on what I decide. 
I think I'm going to try the walmart light first. It does specify that it's for plants and I want enough light.... but I don't mind if the plants grow slowly. I don't want a forest growing in there... I hate the cluttered look. 

Also, I need to get a background. I'm going with the royal blue or black, I don't want one with pictures. Which color would be best? My substrate is going to be black, with the green plants and touch of red in there. Also driftwood and a few large round river rocks (if I can find them).

Also, can you have a bubble want in a planted tank? Or, does that mess up the plants? I would love to have one along the back wall, if possible. But, I don't have to have it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Right, you won't need to do a fishless cycle with plants. Add fish at a speed of about one per week and you should be fine. After the cycle has completed you can add little faster, but not too much faster.

The mention on the light is probably basically stating that what the spectrum the bulb is in.....that it is good for plants. Doesn't really cover the amount of light or watts you may need. The WPG rule does not always work for smaller tanks and is a very general rule, sort of like the 1" of fish per gallon - both are very outdated. Generally 6,500k or 10,000k bulbs are used. If not those specifically, within that range usually.

On the bubble wand....you may want one and they are okay to put into a planted tank. However, if you choose to do any form of CO2 the bubbles going to the top of the water will create enough surface disturbance to cause CO2 to gas out of your water. Just remember that if you later decide to get CO2. Those that use CO2 (especially pressurized), usually use a bubbler of some type when CO2 gets too high or run it opposite times their CO2 is on.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm not sure that they still make BioSpira, but I personally had some moderate success with Tetra SafeStart (though it still can't be used to completely start the cycle, it can help).


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

If I don't do a fishless cycle and add one fish, the plants will eat the ammonia. How will there be enough ammonia for the nitrite to start forming?

With fishless cycle, I would add enough ammonia for the plants and there would be extra for the nitrite to form, correct? 

It seems like fishless would still be the way to go. NO?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Fishless is definitely the way to go, in my opinion. Less potential for damage and/or fish fatalities.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but with plants it is possible/expected there will be no ammonia/nitIte spikes but possibly an initial nitrAte spike. Because the plants themselves will consume the ammonia directly. then as bacteria build up the plants get their nitrogen from nitrAtes because that is all that is available.

I do like your chouce of plants.

I "worry" Rams in a planted tank.

I also like that you are running the tank fish less with plants. That way the plants can condition the tank and get in control.

I would add a very small amount of fish and not add food for a week. then do a more heavy stocking and start feeding very lightly only once per day.

Sure sounds like you are on your way to a good tank though.

awaiting (more) pictures to see how things go.

my .02


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Why do Rams 'worry' ?

If no Rams, I think I'm going with Angels, some sort of tetra and cories and amano shrimp.. or will the shrimp end up being fish food?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think many ciclids will munch on plants. You can do some research on plants that they won't, however.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

pinkice said:


> If no Rams, I think I'm going with Angels, some sort of tetra and cories and amano shrimp.. or will the shrimp end up being fish food?


The angels might munch on baby shrimp, but they won't mess with a fully grown Amano shrimp. I've had a koi angelfish in a tank with some red cherry shrimp (much smaller than an Amano), and the angel left them alone for the most part.


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## roacan (Dec 25, 2010)

pinkice said:


> Do they still make the BioSpira???? I had great results with that stuff years ago.


Bio-Spira (instant tank cycler)saltwater
SAFESTART (instant tank cycler)(replacement for MarineLand "bio-spira")


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmmm.. that's not going to me any good.. I'm doing a saltwater tank.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

pinkice said:


> Hmmm.. that's not going to me any good.. I'm doing a saltwater tank.


In a saltwater tank, my plant idea does apply only instead of true plants you have to use macro algaes. And with most fish protect the macros from the fish and cleaner crews like iwht a simpl partition.


my .02


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

I meant I'm NOT doing a saltwater tank *sigh


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Haha, good. You scared me. I was gonna say, "Man, she has this long thread with all of us thinking she's going fresh when she's going salt? Jeebus!" But now my fears are abated.

I used Tetra SafeStart with a bag of rotting shrimp and live plants and had my 10 gallon tank cycled in 10 days. 2 50% PWC's later my nitrates were down from 120 ppm to 30 ppm and I added my first fish (a crayfish) three days later when I got him for free. Then, four days later, added 3 black stripe tetras on sale for a buck each, then another 3 a week later after another 50% PWC. Not really sure where I'm going with this story, just felt like sharing, haha.

And now I will lapse into awkward silence trying to figure out what point I was trying to make...


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

pinkice said:


> I meant I'm NOT doing a saltwater tank *sigh


ok

please ignore previous post. *old dude


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

What kind of Tetras are you thinking of doing?

Also, glad you're on the fishless method - def the way to go. Setting up any kind of fish tank (plantless, sw, planted, FOWLR, etc) is NOT a race. Some people think it is, but it may hurt you if you hurry things up.

Waiting on the other hand, can't hurt your tank.

Keep us posted - you're plans are great.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

What's a FOWLR?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What's a FOWLR?


Fish Only With Live Rock


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

I just got home... AND my plants are here!!! it's almost 10:00pm and my tank isn't completely set up ready to plant yet. Can I plant tomorrow.. Should I do something with the plants?... keep them in the bag where it's moist?? I'm at a loss what to do


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

pinkice said:


> I just got home... AND my plants are here!!! it's almost 10:00pm and my tank isn't completely set up ready to plant yet. Can I plant tomorrow.. Should I do something with the plants?... keep them in the bag where it's moist?? I'm at a loss what to do


Should be ok till morn.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah just leave them bagged until you get time to plant.Plants are suprisingly tough little things.I moved 1200 miles with some plants bagges and they had to stay that way for three weeks,and all but a few made it through.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Ok, tank is planted  filled with water and running  

My driftwood is floating so I put one of my rocks on top of it. Hopefully it's not going to have to stay there. 

Also, I think I ordered the wrong sagittaria because it was as tall as my tank almost. I cut it short, but I'm probably going to eventually pull it and replace with micrograss. 

They also substituted the ludwigia, broad leaf with something else that I don't know what it is.











More pic in my gallery. I will retake them tonight when I won't get the reflections from windows, etc.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Test results Day 1

PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0


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## Price (Dec 11, 2010)

Looks Great!! 

They also replaced my ludwigia broad leaf, the one they sent instead is called a Ludwigia ovolis Ludwigia ovalis

Our results for day one are pretty similar!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Looks good. Did you soak your driftwood a few days before you put it in the tank? It's already been boiled?

You adding flakes?


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

These might be a little better. Took them tonight in dark room, so no reflections.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Better...lol, must be a cell phone camera.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Looks good so far!Love that driftwood.Is your camera set on auto focus?If so try to change it to manual focus because autofocus is horrid for aquariums.I learned that the hard way,hehe.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

It's not a cell phone, It is a camera.

I'll check the autofocus. I think it is set to that. Thanks

And I decided to go fishless. decided from a *yahoo discussion* I had last night, you know who you are.. THANKS 

So

ammonia 4.0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Todays readings follow.. 

Also, my driftwood is collecting a something very light greyish around it. Is it some sort of alage or slime forming? You can hardly see it, but it's there. What do I do. 

ammonia 2.0
nitrites 0
nitrates 0


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Its fine.I use a rigid airline tubing connected to regular airline to siphon it off.My wood was like that but after sitting in the water for a few months,it quit.I think its just a slime coat.Anyhow i was told by other aquarists its fine.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That growing on the driftwood is normal and will disappear. It helps to soak 2-3 weeks before you put it in there.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

pinkice said:


> Todays readings follow..
> 
> Also, my driftwood is collecting a something very light greyish around it. Is it some sort of alage or slime forming? You can hardly see it, but it's there. What do I do.
> 
> ...


Looks like you got a much larger ammonia spike then I get but it is coming down. (mine are like .5ppm or so)

Bottom line is the ammonia is getting under control

Betch the pH is rising also. *old dude

.02


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

Just read through this post/discussion. Wanted to add my 2-cents: Anacharis, is a great beginner plant, I have a bunch in my goldie tank. I noticed you were going to add flurish for you plants, be careful when adding this it may melt your Anacharis. I had to stop adding it in my tank, almost killed off the Anacharis.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

J-Pond said:


> Just read through this post/discussion. Wanted to add my 2-cents: Anacharis, is a great beginner plant, I have a bunch in my goldie tank. I noticed you were going to add *flurish* for you plants, be careful when adding this it may melt your Anacharis. I had to stop adding it in my tank, almost killed off the Anacharis.


I think you are referring to excel. excel melts anacharis according to the manufacturer's web site.

At any rate the ammonia spike (4 ppm or .5 or whatever) that drops down in a day or two is normal. I didn't start measuring anything until a few years back so I may have had similiar spikes say 20 years ago or so. but with the wait one week method I use(d) the only thing that matters is that it was gone before I added the first fish a week after starting.


I do think some anacharis would help but if the ammonia is dropping down it would seem things are under control.

my .02


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Ok, I just did water tests again. I hadn't been able to test a lot this week because of things going on. And my ammonia was so high anyway. 

The tank has been set up a week. My plants are doing great, so I guess the walmart plant light is doing it's job. The watersprite and anacharis are shooting up. Some of the water sprite has doubled it's height and is at the top of the tank. The red wendti is growing little leaves at the bottom and the top. 

The driftwook still has the slime. It's very visible now. My son likes it, says it's 'cool'. I'm not so sure about that. 

Test results are

ammonia .50 
nitrites 2.0
nitrates 20


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## Price (Dec 11, 2010)

Nice seems like ur tank is moving along pretty well! no growth on my plants like that yet, everything seems to be doing good tho, What method for cycle are u using? flakes or ammonia?


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

HI Price  I'm using ammonia. And, I started with to much, I think.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

pinkice said:


> I started with to much, I think.


You can't have too much in the beginning, in my opinion. Your plants won't be hurt, it will only cause a bigger bacteria bloom. Just keep adding it to keep the cycle fed.

How are your readings now?


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Ok.. Water tests this morning.. When I tested day before yesterdsay, I put to much ammonia and it was off the charts.

So about 36 hours afterwards, this is results

ammonia .25
nitrites 5.0
nitrates 80


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

I have also thought more about my stock. What do you think of this? Would they make good tank mates? If so, are the numbers good?

2 Bolivian Rams
6 Danio Margaritatus
6 Praecox Rainbows
2 cories (species not decided)
Red Cherry Shrimp


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds to me like those fish would be having shrimp cocktail.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Which fish would eat the shrimp?

The Danio Margaritatus aka Celestial Pearl Danios, are in a show tank with red cherry shrimp at my lfs.. without a problem.. There are at least 100 shrimp in there as well as those and a very small fish, almost looks like a dwarf white cloud, if there is such a thing.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I was thinking the rams.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds like you're in the throes of a nitrite spike. Once it drops off you may stop adding ammonia and add your first few fish. Do you have a quarantine tank set up at all?


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

I guess I will go with cories instead of rams??? is this safe for the shrimp?

also my amazon sword has a shoot that has two 'babies' on it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Honestly, I'm not sure if rams or rcs are compatible. All I know is cichlids will be cichlids.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

There is some kind of life form in my tank!! They are white.. anywhere from a mm to 1/4 inch and about the diameter of a piece of thread. I'm noticed them on the back glass and also swimming. Any ideas??

I did see two snails last night. They are no longer in there..

After my water tests last night, I added ammonia.

Tonight's test results:

ammonia 0
nitrites between 2 and 5
nitrates 20


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## Price (Dec 11, 2010)

sounds like ur tank is going good, dunno if you read on mine or not, but my tank sprung a leak so i had to start mostly all over yesterday  lol had about 10 gallons of the water and the plants and filter lol other than that all new peat moss, sand and gravel lol i did still have some ammonia reading after it so hopefully it didnt start my cycle completly over! haha, how are your plants doing? your ludwigia ovolis doing good? i really like mine actually had a runner that i planted so i have a mini one in my tank too lol


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi Price, I did read about your tank. Hugss, all that hard work  I would have panicked if that would have happened with me. Hopefully you didn't lose all of your bacteria. 

My plants are doing great. The Amazon Sword has two babies growing on a shoot. The Watersprite and Anacharis are growing to the top of the tank. I see changes in the other plants too, just not as much. 

Will do water tests again tonight to see if the ammonia that I put in there last night is gone again. I'm surprised that I'm already getting the 0 readings I figured it would take a little longer. 

Have a good day, work calls.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

pinkice said:


> Will do water tests again tonight to see if the ammonia that I put in there last night is gone again. I'm surprised that I'm already getting the 0 readings I figured it would take a little longer.


Not still putting in the same amount are you?


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## Price (Dec 11, 2010)

pinkice said:


> Hi Price, I did read about your tank. Hugss, all that hard work  I would have panicked if that would have happened with me. Hopefully you didn't lose all of your bacteria.
> 
> My plants are doing great. The Amazon Sword has two babies growing on a shoot. The Watersprite and Anacharis are growing to the top of the tank. I see changes in the other plants too, just not as much.
> 
> ...


haha it sucked but luckily me and my girlfriend were layin in my room watchin a movie and once a small puddle formed on the coasters i have under the stand i heard it dripping so very minimal water got in the carpet luckily!! now just kinda starting the cycle over slightly, o well my new tank seems to be doing great! lol of course it had to happen the day before i start back to college and get all busy lol and after meeting my professors it seems this semester will be okay except for one or two haha!

well sounds like ur plants are doing awesome! mine seem to be doing good too, very noticeable growth from my wisteria, and everything else seems to be adjusting well and getting established, i was shocked at the root growth of 9 days when i had to pull them all out! 

Well hope everythings good for you!


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

It's been two weeks  and I think we are moving right along. 

My plants are still growing. They are also being host to some sort of alage now. I'm getting little green spots on a lot of leaves. 

The grayish looking slime has turned brown and either my java moss has died or the slime , which is now brown, is covering it.

The biomax, in the filter, is turning brown. 

water tests tonight:

ammonia was 0 ( I added more will see what it says tomorrow)
nitrite 1.0 
nitrate 20


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds like a nearly complete cycle to me.

As far as the algae goes - there's really no way to completely prevent algae from growing, but a cleanup crew does a great job of controlling its growth, amongst other benefits.

Some people use the inevitable pond snail/MTS outbreak most get in planted tanks to control algae. The two - algae and snails - tend to balance each others` populations out after awhile. Others (like me) use shrimp, and control our pond snail populations with assassin snails. Others will use crabs, cories, otos, and catfish to clean things up. Two I would advise against, however, are plecos and algae eaters. Plecos get BIG, and algae eaters get mean (as in killer mean).

Did you have a cleanup crew in mind before this? I know you were doing some fish shopping/dreaming.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A planted cycle is complete when you see the nitrates zero out. Although, doing a fishless cycle with plants may alter that a little.


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Added ammonia last night after my water tests

Tonight my readings are 

Ammonia 0
Nitrites .25
Nitrates between 10 and 20


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> A planted cycle is complete when you see the nitrates zero out. Although, doing a fishless cycle with plants may alter that a little.


You mean nitrites, right? Nitrates should always be there, especially if you have live plants that need them.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

No, nitrates.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

In my humble opinion, nitrates should never go away. They're the end of the nitrogen cycle, and it would take massive amounts of plant matter to make nitrates go away, unless of course you stop dosing ammonia, in which case you essentially stall the cycle and risk losing your bacteria.

I've only ever zeroed out my nitrates once, and that was with my 30 gallon 2/3 full of plant life. I ended up dosing nitrates and continue to do so to keep the concentration at a healthy level.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> ...
> 
> I've only ever zeroed out my nitrates once, and that was with my 30 gallon 2/3 full of plant life. I ended up dosing nitrates and continue to do so to keep the concentration at a healthy level.


different folks different strokes I guess.

All of my tanks have nitrates unmeasureable with the api nitrate test kit. Freshwater and marine. And most have unmeasureable phosphates (salifert phosphates test kit) also.

In fact in the past on my marine tanks I have even dosed nitrates (calcium nitrate) to see what happened. The 15-20ppm dropped to 0 in a week.


my .02


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## pinkice (Dec 29, 2010)

Will start week three tonight 

Test results before work this morning:

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20

I added a few drops of ammonia. I will check again tonight, to make sure.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I dose nitrates every other day.My plants suck it all up very quickly.I also dose phosphates every other day.


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