# Is there over filtering?



## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

Is there such a thing as over filtering? as in im getting a 55g tank today. Is it ok to put in 2 filters that are rated for 50g (200gph). Or should i use 2 30g (150gph)? This is my first time with a tank this large and i dont want to go thru the cycles and see my fish perish. Also I really like betta fish. In a 55g could i keep multiple betta with other fish?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*I dont see any harm using two filters rated for 50g. Just make sure the fish are not blown all over the tank. I use 2x powerheads for my 55. one is rated for 70g and the other is rated for a 50g. *


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Most here run about twice the rated filtering on their tank. I for instance run an AC50 on my 30G. You want at least 4 times the water turnover per hour, so for mine I would want at least 120GPH, and the AC50 does about 200GPH. I'd say the two AC50s at a minimum. Running two filters is a really good idea though, as if one goes out you at least have partial filtering while the other is replaced, and your beneficial bacteria has two filters to live in. 
As for bettas, I had one in a tank with some platies, a molly, and some glofish (genetically modified zebra danios). It did okay, but harassed others a little. It did severely limit the choices. Now our betta lives in a separate 2.5G and we plan on some more variety in the bigger tank.


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

yeah I don't think you can really over-filter the water, but too much power from a high rater filter can over-agitate the water and be stressful to some fish

a lot of filters have flow regulators, and that's a major plus 

I have a canister filter rated for 70 gallons (Fluval 305) on my 30 gallon tank, and I have to adjust it WAY down to keep everything from blowing around in the tank, but the filtering capacity is amazing


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## ValorieMackison (Dec 10, 2010)

I don't think it's possible to over filter, but it's certainly possible to go the other way! Only concern I'd have is creating a tidal wave in the tank, lol, which most fish do not appreciate. 

Personally, I run a HOB plus an undergravel filter. I know the UGF is extremely debatable (some love them, some hate them). -I happen to be of the former variety.- =D


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I don't use any mechanical filters on my freshwater tanks. So to me any filter is over filtering. 

But basically actual over filtering would be very hard to do. At some point it would be possible that the filters keep stiring things up and create too much current for the fish and decorations. But anywhere near normal operations that should not be a problem.

that said with my tanks anything removed by a filter would just be plant food taken away from the plants. Plus the circulation would probably also add carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

but that just my .02


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

beaslbob, do you at least have some sort of aeration with a bubble stone in your tanks, to break the water tension at the surface? if not, how do you keep the surface from developing a film? just curious


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> beaslbob, do you at least have some sort of aeration with a bubble stone in your tanks, to break the water tension at the surface? if not, how do you keep the surface from developing a film? just curious


No mechanical circulation of any kind not even an air stone.

basically I don't get a surface film.

When I first started and would just dump sand in or even peat moss and sand, then add water and plant I would get a surface file. Probably because of all the floaties from the sand. that film would go away a week after I added the first platy. So I think the fish was acting like a vacuum cleaner at the surface.

my .02


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*If you use CO2 and dose ferts in a high maintenance tank, water circulation is a must or the plants will not get their nutrients properly. You also need it to spread CO2 around the tank. There will be insufficient nutrients in certain areas causing algae to grow. If I remove my powerheads in my high tech tank.... all hell will break loose. Plants compete with algae for nutrients. Lack of nutrients causes algae growth, and that's a fact. A tank with no circulation will not have the right nutrient distribution.

Even in a low tech tank I would still encourage water circulation. I just dont believe a stagnant tank is as healthy as a tank with water circulation. The water is not spread around. Right now it's 20 degrees outside, and all my tanks use a heater, if I had no circulation the heat would not be distributed right. Waste also builds up on leaves decoration and etc. There also dead spots. And that film thing... I get it in my tanks too. Im afraid if that film build up occurs... oxygen/co2 exchange wouldnt be able to happen at the surface and will suffocate my fish.

heh *


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Agree with the filtration: no such thing as too much as long as the current is not too strong. As to having more then one Betta in the tank......let me think........I'm not sure.........hummmm.........NO NO NO NO NO. LOL Sorry to be so abrasive on it but these guys HATE each other and will fight to the death if they can get at each other. If you want to put in a tank divider and put one on each side you can do that but otherwise only get one.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Amie said:


> Agree with the filtration: no such thing as too much as long as the current is not too strong. *As to having more then one Betta in the tank......let me think........I'm not sure.........hummmm.........NO NO NO NO NO*. LOL Sorry to be so abrasive on it but these guys HATE each other and will fight to the death if they can get at each other. If you want to put in a tank divider and put one on each side you can do that but otherwise only get one.



+1

gee there is a reason they are called fighting fish. *old dude


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Amie said:


> Agree with the filtration: no such thing as too much as long as the current is not too strong. As to having more then one Betta in the tank......let me think........I'm not sure.........hummmm.........NO NO NO NO NO. LOL Sorry to be so abrasive on it but these guys HATE each other and will fight to the death if they can get at each other. If you want to put in a tank divider and put one on each side you can do that but otherwise only get one.


Oh yeah. I missed the "multiple" part of the betta question. Bettas will tear each other apart, and pretty much anything else as "showy" as they are. From my understanding it can be risky enough putting a male and female in a tank to breed, but you can't even leave them together. They're very territorial little buggers, and don't take companions.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

You can't over filter, but I would save my cash is 1 of the filters is rated high enough for your tank.

You need some sort of surface movement or air stone to get the oxygen in the water.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

wont the plants, if i go with live plants, put oxygen in?


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

I dare say they will put Oxygen in since thats what plants do by nature but will they put enough in if you have no surface movement or air stone that is the question Question.

And I don't know to be honest.


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## Lil Gashog (Dec 1, 2010)

What filtration should i use for a 20g?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Plants oxygenate the water when there's light. When the lights are off, they consume oxygen and produce carbon dioxide. Be warned of that, but unless you're injecting carbon dioxide into your tank, that's nothing to worry about. And a bubbler is not necessary, especially if you have the waterfall HOB filters. They disrupt the surface far more effectively than any bubbler.

I've got a unique situation where it would be bad to over-filter the water: when you have filter feeders like clams or bamboo shrimp. Any organism that eats particulates in the water will suffer because that is exactly what filters are designed to remove. I lost 2 freshwater clams out of the 4 I bought a few months ago due to the fact I was changing the carbon on my filter weekly. Switching to biweekly, the other 2 clams have been happy as...well...clams


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ditch the carbon altogether...not really needed.

I would argue that bubblers are effective in putting oxygen in the water if most of the bubbles I saw didn't just go to the surface and dissapate. Most filters of all types are more effective than most bubblers in putting oxygen in the water. Different results from different setups. They are cool to watch if your fish like to play in the bubbles though. 

If I were just starting a 55gal that was going to be fairly well stocked I would be adding two AC70s on the back. The amount of current is always a concern but you can minimize by changing the water level in the tank.


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## swampcat874 (Dec 12, 2010)

I use an Aqua Clear 500 (110) on my 55, works great. I originally had two Aqua clear 200's on this tank (I think they are now model 50), I am much happier with the results using one AC 500. This filter is 15 years old now ,and still purrs like a kitten. The 110 will give you lots of room for media, I personally only use foam, with lava rock and bio max for bacteria colonies , but in a rare occasion would have plenty of room for any media needed.

I think over filtration is the way to go, most important thing in your filter is mechanical filtration for obvious reasons _and lots and lots of media that will support colonies of good bacteria (cycle). _


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## HUMAN1ESS (Oct 5, 2010)

I run 3 filters on my tank, i have a Fluval 305, and 2 aquaclear 30's


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> wont the plants, if i go with live plants, put oxygen in?


Yep.

although I haven't measured oxygen or carbon dioxide directly I do find in my tanks that pH using the api high range test kit goes up to 8.4-8.8 even with high bioloads and peat moss in the substrate.

I also have had pH in a salt tank raise from 7.6 (yellow/brown) to 8.4-8.8 (purple) after adding macro algaes.

So I speculate that what happens is the tank becomes a net consumer of carbon dioxide and producer of oxygen each 24 hour period due to the plant action.

Perhaps the tank has basically become like an oxygen tent for the fish.

All I know is things work much better with the plants thriving


my .02


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## gbose (Dec 19, 2010)

Lil Gashog said:


> What filtration should i use for a 20g?


LilG,

I use an Aquaclear 50 (Hang on back) filter on my 25G and have been happy with it. Believe it would work for you. Or you could try 2 Aquatech 10-20 filters. I use an Aquatech 5-15 on my quarantine tank and it seems to work well; that way, you'd have a failover, in case one fails.

Good luck,

GBose


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Amie said:


> As to having more then one Betta in the tank......let me think........I'm not sure.........hummmm.........NO NO NO NO NO. LOL Sorry to be so abrasive on it but these guys HATE each other and will fight to the death if they can get at each other.



Let me add something to this.You can keep multiple males together,but there is a secret.Get wild splendens,or any other type of wild.The males will not fight.They are just as easy but research the wild you wish to keep.

Betta splendens
Betta smaragdina
Betta rubra
Betta imbellis
Betta bellica
Betta albimarginata (my favs)
Betta simplex
Betta macrostoma (other favs)


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## Santaaa (Dec 20, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> Let me add something to this.You can keep multiple males together,but there is a secret.Get wild splendens,or any other type of wild.The males will not fight.They are just as easy but research the wild you wish to keep.
> 
> Betta splendens
> Betta smaragdina
> ...


It is possible to keep male splendens together but I have only ever heard of it twice. Once someone tried it on petfish and seemed to succeed can't remember how. Then the other I read about someone who kept them in a swimming pool that has enough room they can stake out a territory. Regular tank size don't bother. Although I have heard rumors if they are born together and never ever seperated they can get along with each other. Not sure if that is true but that is the rumor I have heard. I would advise against it. Also, use safestart by Tetra when starting a new tank as it is a biological filter in a bottle. I have personally used it with great success. Petsmart now carries it which is great as it is now widely available. It really is an instant cycle contrary to popular belief that bacterial colonies that are sold in bottles don't work some actually do and the best one is Tetra's Safestart for freshwater. Try it and see. Most other ones though in my experience are just water in a bottle that do nothing at all while Safestart works perfectly as it says. It prevents new tank syndrome completely. Make sure you get the right size bottle for your tank and make sure even if there is extra you put it all in the tank and don't forget to shake the bottle up to mix it up a bit. I think it contains bacteria and food for the bacteria. It works wonders and really is a great product.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

About the safestart-I have a question: how long before the bacteria in the bottle die and in that time are you sure that the tank will have time to grow enough bacteria to sustain itself? That is my problem with these type of products. I don't doubt that they will add the bacteria to your tank what I am skeptical about is the bacteria you add not starving to death and then you are left with an uncycled tank again.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm testing the validity of Tetra SafeStart right now. The bacteria seem to have been kept alive and well in the bottle, as my water testing reports. However, as you have said - in order for the colonies not to die you must have an ammonia source. I'm using some grocery store raw shrimp (3 in a bag) as fuel for the cycle, and the bacteria seem to be handling it.

I would strongly advise not to put fish in with the SafeStart, because depending on tank conditions you're still going to have ammonia and nitrite spikes as the cycle adapts to the bioload. Easy way to lose fish, but if you use another source like fish food, raw seafood from the grocery store, or straight ammonia, you can start the cycle fast and add fish from there. Just my thoughts on SafeStart


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I guess that if you had two filters one above another the upper filter would be over filtering.

But then what do I know.


.02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)




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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

When i said splendens,i meant wild splendens.These are not the same as the walmart or even the plakats.These are mostly from wild caught parents or are themselves wild caught.The difference being,these are not bred to be fighters and do not have the fighting instinct.
I myself have wilds,the albis,mahachai and the macrostomas.I also breed plakats and halfmoons and can vouch for the deference in temperment between the wilds and the domestics.


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