# First planted aquarium!



## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Hi all! I'm Donna from Salem Oregon and I just wanted to get some opinions on the new setup I'm planning to start within the next month or so. Okay, here goes.

the new tank is a 29 gallon and I'm planning an Amazon theme. In the research I've done, I've decided to go with a sponge filter setup and upgrade the bulb in the hood that comes with the tank. I'm going to go with the SeaChem Flourite for the substrate. Haven't gotten the numbers on the water, but from what I remember from my last tank that the water here is pretty good, soft and neutral. Here's what I was thinking of putting in the tank. A pair of Bolivian Rams, 10-12 flame tetra or bloodfin tetra. Would like to know which would compliment the colors of the Rams better, and 5 panda cory's. I need to know if this is too much for the tank, or is it okay for a well planted aquarium? I'm planning on at least a 30% water change every week. I know how to cycle a tank, and I plan on taking my time. 
*c/p*


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

10-12 bloodfins could be a little much since they get to 2.5 inches in length. I'd go with the flame tetras.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Thanks...still undecided on which tetra I'm going to get. I've been told the bloodfins will be just fine in a well planted aquarium of this size since the plants do most of the filtering and getting rid of the amonia. I'm going to base my decision on which tetra compliments the colors of the bolivian rams and availability of course.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds like a good setup, however I would spice up the substrate a little - I would go 33% Fluorite, 33% pool filter sand, 33% sphagnum peat moss, with maybe some potting clay or API Laterite thrown in the mix for iron. Fluorite is great on its own, but I've noticed a marked difference in plant growth in the "beaslbob" substrate arrangement listed above.

Keep in mind you might not even want the Fluorite and just go 66% pool filter sand, because it's more gentle on your bottom dwellers, but I have a pleco, two frogs, and some snails and shrimp that all don't mind my Fluorite top layer at all.

Lastly, I suggest pool filter sand because aquarium shops only carry cichlid sand that alters your pH, and you could go with play sand (like Quickcrete from Home Depot), but it's VERY dirty compared to pool filter sand (available at pool&spa hardware and chemical stores).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

scooterlady said:


> Thanks...still undecided on which tetra I'm going to get. I've been told the bloodfins will be just fine in a well planted aquarium of this size since the plants do most of the filtering and getting rid of the amonia. I'm going to base my decision on which tetra compliments the colors of the bolivian rams and availability of course.


Plants can take you a little farther in your bio-filter capacity as it helps remove potentially harmful things to your fish (ammonia, high nitrates,..), but don't get stuck in the belief that it means you can stretch things and be okay. At best, IMO, it will help keep a fully stocked tank stable. It doesn't really allow you much room to go beyond fully stocked. Stress from overstocking is not felt by us the fish keepers. Just keep that in mind. The more you push the limit, the more you risk stressing the fish, which leads to weak immune systems and eventual death.


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## tra_la_la (May 7, 2011)

Hi, Donna! I'm also in Salem and just planning on starting a 29g planted tank, too. If you don't mind me asking, where are you sourcing your fish/plants? I'm not too keen on the local big box pet stores around here, though generally resort to shopping there due to location. I'm probably going to have a school of tetras and some otos if I am able to find any. Thanks.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Hi! I was just going to use Petsmart for the Bloodfins and Panda Cory's. I've had pretty good luck with their fisth in the past...not so much with Petco. The Bolivian Rams I've heard that I can get at The Wet Spot up in Portland. Plants, I was going to order through AquariumPlants.com Their prices seemed reasonable and most of their customers seemed happy. They also carry everything on my list. I hate going to different places...I'd much rather shop at one place.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Plants can take you a little farther in your bio-filter capacity as it helps remove potentially harmful things to your fish (ammonia, high nitrates,..), but don't get stuck in the belief that it means you can stretch things and be okay. At best, IMO, it will help keep a fully stocked tank stable. It doesn't really allow you much room to go beyond fully stocked. Stress from overstocking is not felt by us the fish keepers. Just keep that in mind. The more you push the limit, the more you risk stressing the fish, which leads to weak immune systems and eventual death.


I have to agree 100%.I dont think the real basis of the number of fish is just what the filter can handle,even if thats a major part.You still need to remember they need room.One of the things many people dont think of,since we are used to overcrowding ourselves and even other pets.

Now that thats out of the way,I think your tank will look very pretty.Im not an expert on rams or anything really,but as far as tetras,some of my favorites are the black neons,head and taillight and glolights.So maybe if they would compliment the colors,the glolights stay rather small,getting to about an inch.They have lovely colors and look wonderful by the rich green plants and black substrate or background.

Can I ask why the sponge filter?


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

I've been told that a sponge filter is best for a planted tank, not only for the plants, but for the fish. The ones I'm choosing don't like alot of water movement and it would be less stressful for them and it would be truer to an Amazon theme...


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## tra_la_la (May 7, 2011)

I'll check out Petsmart, thanks for the tip. Probably going to make the trek to P-town to check out The Wet Spot soonish as well. Thanks for all your info.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

No problem Check out their website. They have a live fish section that's pretty informative. Their selection could be better, but they seem to take pretty good care of their tanks...they're clean, seldom dead fish in the tanks. You'll have to let me know what you think of the Wet Spot and how easy it is to find. I'm pretty much hopeless when it comes to getting around up in Portland...it'll probably be next month before I can get the tank...we'll see how it goes...good luck!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

scooterlady said:


> I've been told that a sponge filter is best for a planted tank, not only for the plants, but for the fish. The ones I'm choosing don't like alot of water movement and it would be less stressful for them and it would be truer to an Amazon theme...


I didn't see anything in your fish selection that needed less flow. The "best" filter for anything is always subjective. I have used HOB and canister filters and prefer canister because I have more options for directiong flow to where it does not beat up my plants.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Most fish can handle a bit of flow and the plants will certainly be happier with it.Long finned bettas are the only fish I know of who cant handle a rapid flow,though they still need a filter.I have a canister filter on both my 29 gallons,and they can be adjusted for the flow,which helps me a ton.When my macs breed they like a bit less flow so all I have to do is pull a lever a little to reduce it for them.Sponge filters,IMO are best for fry tanks and very small tanks.Its only really a bio filter.And if you are worried about the plants and the strainer on a HOB or canister,use a sponge prefilter.That will assure nothing too big gets sucked up.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

scooterlady said:


> I've been told that a sponge filter is best for a planted tank, not only for the plants, but for the fish. The ones I'm choosing don't like alot of water movement and it would be less stressful for them and it would be truer to an Amazon theme...


Sponge filters Are great as they create great biological filtration and are low maintenance and cheap, however they provide little in the way of chemical (activated carbon) and mechanical (filter floss) filtration. I run a Haagen AquaClear 50 in my 29 gallon for the carbon but mostly as a source of current and surface agitation. The more plants you have, the smaller the filter you need, in general.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The more plants you have, the smaller the filter you need, in general.


Wonder why that thought is out there? Filter selection should not be based on whether you have/will have plants when referring to it's filtration capacity (gph). The recommendation is always at least twice the rated capacity or 3-5 times per hour water turnover, plants or not. This belief is along the same lines as thinking I can now overstock my tank because I now have plants. It really isn't true.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I didn't see anything in your fish selection that needed less flow. The "best" filter for anything is always subjective. I have used HOB and canister filters and prefer canister because I have more options for directiong flow to where it does not beat up my plants.


I was told that the fish that I'm getting come from slow moving streams and still pools and would be less stressed, thus act more naturally with less flow, but I appreciate your opinion. I still think I'm going to try the sponge filter first. If I have any issues, I can always switch to a HOB. I can't afford and don't have room for a canister filter, so that was never in the running.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> Most fish can handle a bit of flow and the plants will certainly be happier with it.Long finned bettas are the only fish I know of who cant handle a rapid flow,though they still need a filter.I have a canister filter on both my 29 gallons,and they can be adjusted for the flow,which helps me a ton.When my macs breed they like a bit less flow so all I have to do is pull a lever a little to reduce it for them.Sponge filters,IMO are best for fry tanks and very small tanks.Its only really a bio filter.And if you are worried about the plants and the strainer on a HOB or canister,use a sponge prefilter.That will assure nothing too big gets sucked up.


Like I've mentioned above, a canister filter is out due to cost and size. I appreciate your opinion but I still think I'm going with a sponge filter. I'm researching to find out what size I should get for a 29 gallon. If I have any issues, I can always switch to a HOB later.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Sponge filters Are great as they create great biological filtration and are low maintenance and cheap, however they provide little in the way of chemical (activated carbon) and mechanical (filter floss) filtration. I run a Haagen AquaClear 50 in my 29 gallon for the carbon but mostly as a source of current and surface agitation. The more plants you have, the smaller the filter you need, in general.


I've heard that the only time you really need chemical filtration is to remove medications and toxins from the water. Even if I got a HOB filter, I was going to remove the activated carbon unless it was needed. I'm trying to avoid current and surface agitation. It's going to be planted fairly heavily, so I thought I'd go with the sponge filter and see how that works...


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Wonder why that thought is out there? Filter selection should not be based on whether you have/will have plants when referring to it's filtration capacity (gph). The recommendation is always at least twice the rated capacity or 3-5 times per hour water turnover, plants or not. This belief is along the same lines as thinking I can now overstock my tank because I now have plants. It really isn't true.


I've talked to several people that use little or no filtration in their planted tanks and they talk about having less issues with cycling when stocking their tanks. Plants are natural filters that remove ammonia very efficiently and the more plants the better. I've heard arguments from both sides and I think I'm still going to go with the sponge filter and plants this time around, and we'll see how it goes..


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Wonder why that thought is out there? Filter selection should not be based on whether you have/will have plants when referring to it's filtration capacity (gph). The recommendation is always at least twice the rated capacity or 3-5 times per hour water turnover, plants or not. This belief is along the same lines as thinking I can now overstock my tank because I now have plants. It really isn't true.


I think I might be falling prey to common addages like Watts-per-Gallon and inches of fish per gallon. I would agree that filtration should be based on water flow for sure. However, in my experience I've found the more plants I have in the tank the more difficult and superfluous it becomes to maintain a filter (my AC50 clogs all the time, and I've turned it off for weeks at a time and noticed no difference in my water chemistry or O2/CO2 levels).

As far as carbon filtration - I've noticed fresh carbon in my filter helps reduce the "pond smell" of my tanks - sometimes they smell kinda like stagnant water if the filter carbon is old enough.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

In that case,here is some great sponge filters:AquaBid.com - Your Aquatic Auction Website


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

scooterlady said:


> I've talked to several people that use little or no filtration in their planted tanks and they talk about having less issues with cycling when stocking their tanks. Plants are natural filters that remove ammonia very efficiently and the more plants the better. I've heard arguments from both sides and I think I'm still going to go with the sponge filter and plants this time around, and we'll see how it goes..


It is possible to have no filtration in a heavily planted tank, no doubt. A couple on here do it. However, in order for that to work the tank is very moderately stocked and a lot of consideration toward the bio-filter has to be given when adding fish. The type of plants needs to be thought out a little as well. For example...a good mix of fast and slow growers, which dictates how they consume the nutrients in the water. In my personal opnion this is not something that beginners should even consider. As beginners, you never want a tank that isn't wall-to-wall fish. Just the nature of it.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Thank you all so very much! I'm learning tons here! I'll keep everyone's advice in mind when I finally get this tank set up


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Sounds like a good setup, however I would spice up the substrate a little - I would go 33% Fluorite, 33% pool filter sand, 33% sphagnum peat moss, with maybe some potting clay or API Laterite thrown in the mix for iron. Fluorite is great on its own, but I've noticed a marked difference in plant growth in the "beaslbob" substrate arrangement listed above.
> 
> Keep in mind you might not even want the Fluorite and just go 66% pool filter sand, because it's more gentle on your bottom dwellers, but I have a pleco, two frogs, and some snails and shrimp that all don't mind my Fluorite top layer at all.
> 
> Lastly, I suggest pool filter sand because aquarium shops only carry cichlid sand that alters your pH, and you could go with play sand (like Quickcrete from Home Depot), but it's VERY dirty compared to pool filter sand (available at pool&spa hardware and chemical stores).


I'm really not interested in doing any type of sand, or clay, peat moss, etc. I just want to grow nice plants, I don't need anything more complicated than putting in a bag or two of substrate. Thanks for the suggestions though...always interested in learning new stuff...


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