# My Diatom Odyssey...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Okay. This is getting out of hand already. Not only can I not seem to get an air pump that pushes bubbles to my wand for more than one week at full power (see my thread about this; I'm still suffering with a new Tetra Whisper 100 that put out a TON of bubbles the first couple of days but is now slowing down like every other pump I buy), I am getting a full return of diatom algae all over my tank, and they're more aggressive than ever...

Let me rewind a bit, to give you all some history about this problem; the air pump issue we'll save for another time...

My 60 gallon is stocked with four small/medium sized fantail goldfish, and has been running about a year solid come next month. Believe it or not, I haven't lost one fish -- and that's with no real regular maintenance in terms of constant, routine water changes (I change the water when it looks like there's a problem, or the water gets a bit "off" or if one of the fish seem to be having an issue, etc.) and with two HOB filters running the show, an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and an AquaClear 110. Almost since the beginning of the tank's cycle process, we have had an horrendous outbreak of brown diatom algae -- they came all of a sudden, attaching themselves to everything...the glass, gravel, decor, plastic plants...nothing we did got rid of them. I tried all the suggestions put to me -- cut down on feeding, try water other than the tap supply, get good current going (I have two powerful HOBs plus a big bubble wand), do more semi-regular water changes and even bought some of Seachem's "PhosGuard" which I put in the AquaClear filter for a few months. Nothing worked.

I had to continuously remove all the decor of the tank -- a big pirate shipwreck ornament (its white cloth sails are COMPLETELY ruined with brown diatom spots that never came out and now green algae spots that have consumed it), a pirate skull, a tropical "reef" corner ornament, a pirate treasure cave and a lot of plastic plants -- and walk them across the house in stages to the nearest bathroom, where I washed EACH item down with hot water to get rid of the diatoms as best I could. They did NOT come off easily, and some items simply will not come clean. Let me tell you -- this was absolutely BACK BREAKING work; to stand at the sink and wash each of these pieces down, then return them to the tank, which made a mess in itself, was just downright daunting. I said I would never do it again.

The "clean" ornaments lasted a few weeks before brown spots began showing up again. I know I said I would never clean these items again, but a few months later, I simply couldn't look at the brown stained decorations any longer. I did the wash down of the diatoms AGAIN. This time, even less came off. Meanwhile, my supply of PhosGuard, which is supposed to remove silicates and phosphates from the water column, ran down so I tossed the 200ml sack. 

Recently, I ordered more PhosGuard and extra bags of Purigen for my filters, but with each day that passes, the diatoms are coming back even more aggressively than they ever did -- and this is WITH changing my water supply to R/O and purified from the store, no more tap. I've tried cutting back on feeding, that didn't seem to make any difference; I played with lighting -- less, more, depending on who told me what. Nothing seemed to do anything in that regard.

I am absolutely at my wit's end. The diatoms are now all over the glass (which I have to wipe down nearly daily with a magnetic glass scrubber) and they're covering the decor and plants again, not to mention the filter intake tubes...and just about everything. What is causing this? Will the infestation ever end? I have read -- and have been told -- that diatom algae is a sign that a cycle may be coming to a close and they will disappear on their own, sometimes to be followed by green algae. But now, I AM getting green spots on the sails of my shipwreck ornament ALONG WITH continuing brown diatom growth. What is going on here? Why wouldn't changing my water supply even help this problem? I was almost certain the problem resided in my tap water -- but since switching to R/O and purified water in bottles for top offs, it has not made any difference. In fact, the diatoms are coming back aggressively now.

Can anyone tell me what is going on here? Are diatoms supposed to last this long? As I said, the tank is nearly a year old, with fish in there for nearly the whole year -- shouldn't the diatoms be gone already?

Can anyone suggest any other routes I can explore to combat this?

Thanks in advance.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Diatoms are usually caused by silicates. What kind of substrate are you using?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Diatoms are usually caused by silicates. What kind of substrate are you using?


As always, thank you Susan. 

My substrate is store-bought colored gravel, standard kind for aquariums (varying shades of blue). It was washed well before being poured into the tank nearly a year ago during initial setup.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Any other thoughts on the gravel, Susan?

It actually does seem like the diatoms originate at the substrate level -- they're always crawling in clumps from the gravel line it seems...


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Do you still have the bag? it might be the kind of rocks that have been painted, it could even be the paint that was used. Thats one of the reasons I always use sand or natural rocks for substrate and have never had a diatom bloom since I started using these.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Do you still have the bag? it might be the kind of rocks that have been painted, it could even be the paint that was used. Thats one of the reasons I always use sand or natural rocks for substrate and have never had a diatom bloom since I started using these.


No, I don't have the bag anymore -- it was nearly a year ago!

I wonder if this could be the source of this problem all along -- indeed, the gravel pieces do look like they're painted, as they're varying shades of blue. What is it that causes the silicates from the substrate? If it is my gravel, will the diatom blooms never go away as long as the gravel is in there? 

When you say "natural rocks," can you give me an idea of what you mean?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Well....I think water changes help the situation, but that is probably arguable to a point. After this long if it is still bothering you, I would suggest going more natural in your decor. Try getting some nice pieces of driftwood. The funky decorations or really cool ones you buy in the store are sometimes okay, but something natural will always be better looking than anything else, IMO.

As far as the glass goes, we all deal with that. I don't see mine so much, but I feel it when I rub my hands on the inside. Whether or be diatoms or whatever, I clean my glass weekly. But, I do weekly maintenance and it is just part of it so it doesn't bother me. I wish there was, but no such thing as a great looking tank without touching it regularly - in some way. 

If you went with the natural decor, just think....most of your headache would be gone.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Well....I think water changes help the situation, but that is probably arguable to a point. After this long if it is still bothering you, I would suggest going more natural in your decor. Try getting some nice pieces of driftwood. The funky decorations or really cool ones you buy in the store are sometimes okay, but something natural will always be better looking than anything else, IMO.
> 
> As far as the glass goes, we all deal with that. I don't see mine so much, but I feel it when I rub my hands on the inside. Whether or be diatoms or whatever, I clean my glass weekly. But, I do weekly maintenance and it is just part of it so it doesn't bother me. I wish there was, but no such thing as a great looking tank without touching it regularly - in some way.
> 
> If you went with the natural decor, just think....most of your headache would be gone.


What do the looks of the decor have to do with the problem I'm experiencing?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Because most "natural" decor (ie driftwood, rocks, etc) it will not matter how much diatoms it has on it....you won't know, as long as the rocks aren't strikingly white. If I remember you had a model of a wooden hull ship with white sails? How much time do you spend scrubbing the hull...assuming it is brown?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Because most "natural" decor (ie driftwood, rocks, etc) it will not matter how much diatoms it has on it....you won't know, as long as the rocks aren't strikingly white. If I remember you had a model of a wooden hull ship with white sails? How much time do you spend scrubbing the hull...assuming it is brown?


Hey JR,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you -- yes, I have a wooden pirate shipwreck ornament with white cloth, or silk, sails; this routinely receives an attack of diatoms that turn the entire thing an ugly red/brown. The sails are beyond repair or salvage -- they're so littered and stained with the brown diatoms, as well as now green algae blooms all over them, that the ornament is basically worthless. I have tried to scrub this ship down with hot water (removed from the tank) several times, and the diatoms just won't come off the sails in particular, as if they're permanently stained on. 

As for the new decor, what I'm trying to ascertain is if I changed to an entire tank of the "natural" decor (plain earth-colored rocks for substrate and getting rid of the plastic plants for driftwood, etc.), would this actually stop the diatoms from growing IF my problem is in the colored gravel I have now -- further, you say it won't matter if the diatoms grow with the natural decor because they won't be able to be seen, but that doesn't really solve my problem because they'll still be on the glass and other surfaces...right now, there is a MASSIVE heaping of diatoms on the center of the rear glass that I just can't reach to scrub off, but new decor won't hide these kinds of outbreaks...

I'm really looking to explore the angle Susan was suggesting in the thread, which is the possibility that my substrate or some other decor may be causing the silicates to allow the diatoms to continue to flourish in my tank; if this is the case, I will consider stripping the tank down and starting over...


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Natural substrate, is like river rocks, sand and such. Colored rocks once the paint wears off usually helps but it takes a long time for it to happen. Anything that has been painted usually has silicates in it. I would go with more rounded pea gravel or small river rocks. 

There is no tank that does not have some sort of algae, whether its a small amount or large amount. If you can't reach to back of the tank they have long handled scrapers that work, Or put some nerite snails in the tank. Oto's will also help. You don't need to worry about running out of food for them as they will also eat what ever falls to the bottom of the tank. I had one tank that kept getting a green dust algae, I put a couple of nerites and that tank and haven't seen it since.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

You've got a couple things going on here. I remember all your old posts as well.

First the diatoms. As you know by now, they thrive on silicates. This can come from anything from the silicone used to seal the aquarium to the decorations to even your water supply. Being that you started using RO/DI water, that should remove that part of the equasion which just leaves the items left in the tank.

It would be nice to get some Oto's in there but with your stocking, I'm not sure that would be such a good idear.

I don't normally recommend people buying other gadgets, but if it is bothering you that much, maybe look at a diatom filter?

Now the second issue. It now sounds like you are developing GSA (Green Spot Algae). This is caused by your phosphate level. You are removing all the phosphates from the system. This is giving them the advantage. Pull the PhosGuard.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I recommended a diatom filter a good ways back. It is funny that the tank that I believe I get less issues with diatom algae show up is the tank that the substrate is loaded with silicates.

No matter what you do, a piece of glass with water (without the use of chemicals like chlorine for example) will never stay clean over a period of time. You will NEVER get away from having to clean the glass. You may get to a point where you can go 1-4wks or something, but it will still be needed. If I go one week without cleaning my glass, by week 2 it starts getting brown spots. Tanks in fish stores clean their glass for the same reason you will have to do yours, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have glass remain clean indefinitely.

You just have to find the area where you are comfortable with the amount of work required - whatever that may be. There is not an easy answer.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Natural substrate, is like river rocks, sand and such. Colored rocks once the paint wears off usually helps but it takes a long time for it to happen. Anything that has been painted usually has silicates in it. I would go with more rounded pea gravel or small river rocks.


This issue of the "paint" on colored gravel is all new to me -- amazing; I never would have considered the decor causing this problem. Even when I kept tropicals many years ago, I always kept colored gravel as substrate and never thought of more "natural" decor, etc. 

When you say it "takes a long time for it to happen," do you mean the wearing off of the paint off the gravel surface? I don't really want to go with sand as substrate, as I hear that this material can get sucked into filter intake tubes and wreak havoc on the motors, but where can I find "river rocks" whether they be small or large? Do LFS's sell the natural looking substrate? 



> There is no tank that does not have some sort of algae, whether its a small amount or large amount. If you can't reach to back of the tank they have long handled scrapers that work, Or put some nerite snails in the tank. Oto's will also help. You don't need to worry about running out of food for them as they will also eat what ever falls to the bottom of the tank. I had one tank that kept getting a green dust algae, I put a couple of nerites and that tank and haven't seen it since.


I will look into getting the scrapers; thank you. I understand I will have to deal with some kind of algae.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

James0816 said:


> You've got a couple things going on here. I remember all your old posts as well.


Hello, James. 

I recall your input and suggestions in the past as well; thanks for contributing to this thread. I wouldn't have even started it, but the diatom issue will not go away, and each time I clean the decor of these things, the brown spots seem to come back tenfold on everything even thicker and more aggressive than ever, and I'm at my wit's end with it -- it's going on for a year now. 



> First the diatoms. As you know by now, they thrive on silicates. This can come from anything from the silicone used to seal the aquarium to the decorations to even your water supply. Being that you started using RO/DI water, that should remove that part of the equasion which just leaves the items left in the tank.


Okay, first of all -- indeed I recognize that they feed on silicates. If you read my original post in this thread which details my entire odyssey of this whole debacle, you will see where I mentioned changing the water supply, cutting back on feeding, playing with light exposure, changing the brand of food, doing more routine water changes...and nothing seemed to change the growth of the diatoms. Now, you're right -- because I switched to an external water source for top offs, the factor becomes more what's in the tank, what I'm feeding, light, etc...but with regard to the silicone that seals the glass in the aquarium, I have eliminated this as a factor after lengthy, month-long email discussions with Seachem's support team who assured me they do not believe it's the sealants of the tank causing this problem. They claimed that the glass would have long since cured by now, even if it was brand spanking new out of the factory before I set it up, and that there's just no reasonable way to think it's this that's causing the diatoms. I kind of just believed them and let that factor go...



> It would be nice to get some Oto's in there but with your stocking, I'm not sure that would be such a good idear.


Do you mean because I have goldfish? I have asked this question several exhausting times here and on other forums -- I am uncertain if cats can mix with goldies in the same tank. If they can, I would consider getting some cats. 



> I don't normally recommend people buying other gadgets, but if it is bothering you that much, maybe look at a diatom filter?


I have considered and looked at diatom filters -- they are very expensive and I am uncertain as to how they work exactly...do they actually work on diatoms specifically, or is it just like adding a third filter to my tank? Don't forget -- I have two large HOB's running on the tank as it is, so would adding a third be advisable? Further, do these things actually affect diatoms specifically in a tank? If they do, I would reconsider trying to save up to buy one. 



> Now the second issue. It now sounds like you are developing GSA (Green Spot Algae). This is caused by your phosphate level. You are removing all the phosphates from the system. This is giving them the advantage. Pull the PhosGuard.


I am only getting the green spot algae on one decoration -- that is on the white sails of the "pirate shipwreck" ornament in the center of the tank. They are big green spots which seem to be devouring the sails at this point, even more prevalent in nature than the brown spots of the diatoms. It's ridiculous what's going on in my tank; but, you speak of the phosphate level...I actually do not have the PhosGuard in my filter yet because of a backorder problem from the Amazon vendor I bought from. So it's not actually in the system; I was told that I need something like PhosGuard to combat the diatoms though. Are you saying don't use this stuff at all?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

FWIW I had a 10g planted and did not even touch the glass for over 4 years. Not a speck of algae of any kind.

1) try a planted tank.

2) with or without plants kill the lights and all algae will die off.


my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I recommended a diatom filter a good ways back. It is funny that the tank that I believe I get less issues with diatom algae show up is the tank that the substrate is loaded with silicates.
> 
> No matter what you do, a piece of glass with water (without the use of chemicals like chlorine for example) will never stay clean over a period of time. You will NEVER get away from having to clean the glass. You may get to a point where you can go 1-4wks or something, but it will still be needed. If I go one week without cleaning my glass, by week 2 it starts getting brown spots. Tanks in fish stores clean their glass for the same reason you will have to do yours, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have glass remain clean indefinitely.
> 
> You just have to find the area where you are comfortable with the amount of work required - whatever that may be. There is not an easy answer.


I understand I will have to clean the glass occasionally; but what I am talking about here is simply getting out of hand, because with each day that passes, there is more brown crud on everything in the tank -- the gravel, decor, plants and glass.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> FWIW I had a 10g planted and did not even touch the glass for over 4 years. Not a speck of algae of any kind.
> 
> 1) try a planted tank.
> 
> ...


You mean don't even put on the fluorescent lights above the tank?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> You mean don't even put on the fluorescent lights above the tank?


Correct.

algae (and cyano for that matter) can not live without light.

also that is just for a few days then you resume the lights at shorter duration.

Hopefully you can reach a point where the fish are happy (and especially plants if you have them) but the algae does not come back. with a planted tank the plants are consuming the nutrients and not the algae. 

It's more difficult and requires more effort (cleaning, water changes, etc etc) with no plants but it can be done.

my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> Correct.
> 
> algae (and cyano for that matter) can not live without light.
> 
> ...


Okay, so NO fluorescent lighting for a few days, correct?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Okay, so NO fluorescent lighting for a few days, correct?


yep


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

beaslbob said:


> FWIW I had a 10g planted and did not even touch the glass for over 4 years. Not a speck of algae of any kind.
> 
> 1) try a planted tank.
> 
> ...



No offense.. But this is not going to help against diatoms. Sry

Sry Clin... I thought i read you were using or used a phosphate pad. I'll go back and read it over again. GSA appears when you have low phosphate levels and is an even bigger pain than diatoms to remove.

As for the diatom filter, i have never used one so can't say how they work or how effective. They are more commonly used in reef tanks.

Pretty surprised at seachems remarks too. Just because the silicone is cured does not mean that it wont release silicates in the water column.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

You may want to consider a plant refugium or algae turf scrubber.

Both are seperate containers growing plants in the refugium or algae on screens.

That way the plants or algae will consume the nitrates and phosphates to prevent the algae from returning to the display.

With the seperate container you can then kill off the algae in the display (no lights) while the plants/algae outside the display consume the nutrients keeping the display "clean". 

Once that balance is achieved you will no longer have algae in the display as the plants/algae external to the display are in charge. nitrates and phospates will be unmeasureable regardless of the filters and water changes being done.


my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

James0816 said:


> No offense.. But this is not going to help against diatoms. Sry
> 
> Sry Clin... I thought i read you were using or used a phosphate pad. I'll go back and read it over again. GSA appears when you have low phosphate levels and is an even bigger pain than diatoms to remove.
> 
> ...


James,

I did indeed have PhosGuard in the AquaClear filter some time ago, so that's probably where you read it -- it has since exhausted, and I've been running without it for some time now. But I recently ordered another 200ml. 

As for Seachem's response, they did in fact tell me that they do not believe the tank's sealants are causing the silicates at this point.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Diatom filters are basically for green water and really doesn't help the algae and such that is on the ornaments and glass. They use a powder that you mix in water and swish the inside filter in it. (can't remember the spelling) But the powder can be hazardous if you breath it in. I have 2 of the older models but only use them as filters.

I doubt after this long that the silicone is part of the problem. I run some sort of sand in all my tanks and have never had the problem of it going into the filter so I can't explain that one reasoning and out of 47 tanks that is a lot of sand that I have. Most of the fish I have will move the sand like anyones business and still no problem. Sand don't float up it stays down pretty good.

Petsmart and petco both carry the river rocks. But most people I know that keeps goldies usually keep them barebottom to make it easier to clean.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Diatom filters are basically for green water and really doesn't help the algae and such that is on the ornaments and glass. They use a powder that you mix in water and swish the inside filter in it. (can't remember the spelling) But the powder can be hazardous if you breath it in. I have 2 of the older models but only use them as filters.


Doesn't sound like a road I want to go down -- are you suggesting that perhaps a diatom filter wouldn't be right for my situation? 



> I doubt after this long that the silicone is part of the problem.


You mean the silicone in the sealants of the tank's glass? If so, that's what Seachem told me as well...



> I run some sort of sand in all my tanks and have never had the problem of it going into the filter so I can't explain that one reasoning and out of 47 tanks that is a lot of sand that I have. Most of the fish I have will move the sand like anyones business and still no problem. Sand don't float up it stays down pretty good.


Okay; I'm sure you have had good luck with sand -- I'm just going by what I have read online about folks with filters like the AquaClears that have had burned up motors from sand being sucked into them...



> Petsmart and petco both carry the river rocks. But most people I know that keeps goldies usually keep them barebottom to make it easier to clean.


I have heard that theory before regarding the goldies and the lack of any substrate -- but I'd like to keep some kind of substrate in the tank if I could.

Can you give me an idea of what I should be looking for in terms of decor and "natural" rocks for substrate? Do you have any links I could take a look at?

Further, at this point, can we assume it's something in the decor of the tank, or perhaps specifically the gravel, that is causing this constant outbreak of diatoms, being that everything else hasn't worked yet (water changes, switching out tap water for purified, etc.)?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Just some thoughts here.

Looks like you're going through some kind of delayed algae cycle.

It is normal to get brown then green algae but usually over the first few weeks/months not a year later.

Diatoms use silicates to form cell structures.

Both diatoms and green algae of course use ammonia/nitrates, phosphates, lights, and carbon dioxide to grow. (actually plants also)

The presence of a bioload (fish) with food being added creates a constant source of the ammonia/nitrIates, phosphates, and carbon dioxide. But silicates come from more fixed sources like the tank setup itself. 

So after a while the silicates are reduced and the diatoms do not have them for cell structures. The diatoms die off and the silicates are locked up in the dead cells of the diatoms.

At that point the green algae that do not need silicates to grow start showing up.

So like I said just a delayed algae cycle.

Now with a planted tank the plants consume the nutrients so it is possible that neither diatoms nor other algaes show up. 

And neither would show up in a totally dark tank. Which also means you couldn't see the fish as well.

So the key is to find some "sweet point" when desirable things like plants are in control and the ugly algaes are gone.

Still just my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> Just some thoughts here.
> 
> Looks like you're going through some kind of delayed algae cycle.
> 
> It is normal to get brown then green algae but usually over the first few weeks/months not a year later.


That's why I have been concerned -- the tank has been set up and running for a bit over a year now, actually, and the diatoms are as aggressive as ever. 



> Diatoms use silicates to form cell structures.


I know. 



> Both diatoms and green algae of course use ammonia/nitrates, phosphates, lights, and carbon dioxide to grow. (actually plants also)


Okay...



> The presence of a bioload (fish) with food being added creates a constant source of the ammonia/nitrIates, phosphates, and carbon dioxide. But silicates come from more fixed sources like the tank setup itself.


So, if it's most likely not the fish or their food, am I to take it it's definitely something in the decor/glass/substrate? 

What bothers me is that every piece of decor I put into the tank is aquarium-safe, and specifically made for aquariums, bought at a LPS. Why would these items cause such algae infestations? 



> So after a while the silicates are reduced and the diatoms do not have them for cell structures. The diatoms die off and the silicates are locked up in the dead cells of the diatoms.
> 
> At that point the green algae that do not need silicates to grow start showing up.


Well, as I said, only one ornament in the tank is showing signs of green algae -- the white sails of the "pirate shipwreck" piece; it's the weirdest thing. No other area of the tank has green algae. 



> So like I said just a delayed algae cycle.
> 
> Now with a planted tank the plants consume the nutrients so it is possible that neither diatoms nor other algaes show up.
> 
> ...


So, where does that leave me? I'm experiencing a delayed algae cycle? Or is it their flake food I'm using? Or something in the tank (decor, substrate, etc.)?


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## Kehy (Apr 19, 2011)

It sounds to me like you might just want to start slowly removing different pieces of your decor to see if removing them changes anything. By removing one piece at a time, and leaving a gap between removing stuff, you can see if there's a change. If there is a change, then you might have found the culprit. Since you seem to have the most trouble with it, I'd say remove the ship first, but that's just my opinion. 
After that, a tank blackout for a bit, just to see if it helps anything and maybe adding some plants afterwards would help. There's a few plants that don't require much work, and grow quickly to mop up excess nutrients. 
If you try doing everything, hopefully something should work, lol


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Kehy said:


> It sounds to me like you might just want to start slowly removing different pieces of your decor to see if removing them changes anything. By removing one piece at a time, and leaving a gap between removing stuff, you can see if there's a change. If there is a change, then you might have found the culprit. Since you seem to have the most trouble with it, I'd say remove the ship first, but that's just my opinion.
> After that, a tank blackout for a bit, just to see if it helps anything and maybe adding some plants afterwards would help. There's a few plants that don't require much work, and grow quickly to mop up excess nutrients.
> If you try doing everything, hopefully something should work, lol


Thanks Kehy. 

I don't know; I'm thinking I may just start from scratch at some point with the so-called "natural" decor (non colored rocks and substrate, etc.) but that may not even solve the problem if it's a combination of my type of fish/bioload/water etc...


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## Kehy (Apr 19, 2011)

That's part of where plants can shine really. If you go with a natural look, live plants look better than fake ones (to me at least). They also use fish waste as fertilizer, not only helping the plants, but helping keep up water quality too. You'd still need good filtration, but plants do help. Fish seem to like them better than plastic plants too. There's a few videos on YouTube that feature planted tanks with goldfish that look great, and always pictures everywhere else on the Internet that might give you some ideas.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> ....
> 
> 
> So, where does that leave me? I'm experiencing a delayed algae cycle? Or is it their flake food I'm using? Or something in the tank (decor, substrate, etc.)?


sorry about all the History of diatoms and stuff. hopefully all that will help others reading the thread.

I think overall it actually is extremely hard to have a 100% algae free tank which means the white sails will turn dark over time. I guess about all you can do is take it out and clean it up from time to time.

I guess I have/had some level of algae in all my tanks just at very low levels. And a speck here and there on a plant I just ignore.

I'm currently doing a black out on one tank and it is starting to clear up but it I let it go too long and has been blacked out for 2 weeks now. It also gets direct sunlight as its only light.

So I would just get live plants established, kill the lights and stop feeding for awhile, and probably change the tank decorations.

but that's just my and my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Kehy said:


> That's part of where plants can shine really. If you go with a natural look, live plants look better than fake ones (to me at least). They also use fish waste as fertilizer, not only helping the plants, but helping keep up water quality too. You'd still need good filtration, but plants do help. Fish seem to like them better than plastic plants too. There's a few videos on YouTube that feature planted tanks with goldfish that look great, and always pictures everywhere else on the Internet that might give you some ideas.


I appreciate that, Kehy -- the thing is, goldfish are notorious plant eaters, and I don't really want to go down that road.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> sorry about all the History of diatoms and stuff. hopefully all that will help others reading the thread.
> 
> I think overall it actually is extremely hard to have a 100% algae free tank which means the white sails will turn dark over time. I guess about all you can do is take it out and clean it up from time to time.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm definitely not expecting a completely algae-free aquarium environment -- but the outbreak of these things are beyond ridiculous now. Every time I clean them off the decor, they return even more aggressively than prior to the cleaning, suggesting to me something is triggering these things.


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