# Fin Rot or not? Rescued fish Please help.



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Greetings all.

I'm not new to the hobby (I've been out of the game for a while though)

I just rescued a 72 gallon FW aquarium and its inhabitants from a gentleman that was just not in a place in his life that he could take care of it anymore.

So now the tank and its 4 inhabitants live in my kitchen. 

Generally 3 of the 4 fish were in good heath seemingly despite the conditions they were kept in.

The 4th, which I THINK is a silver dollar fish is missing almost every fin.

Here is a picture of the poor guy. 






*CAUTION* (kind of terrible)










Was this most likely caused by fin rot?

I know the tank hadn't been cleaned in years (yes years) the other 3 fish, two plecos and a pictus catfish's, fins are all fairly Ok. However today I did notice the plecos fins do seem a bit "tattered" and the catfish has a small white area on his top fin...Possibly the same issue?

Any and all diagnoses would be greatly appreciate. Please include treatment options! 

Also, can anyone verify for me that Silver Dollar is the name of this type of fish? I Googled it but not all of them seemed to have spots like this guy so I wanted 100% sure.

OH and last thing, Is that type of damage reversible? Is it possible his fins could recover?

I called him Omen...its Nemo backwards....cuz poor Omen only has 1 GOOD fin.

Please Help.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it is fin rot, for sure, and it's caused by poor water quality.

I would do a filter media change and a 25% water change, and test for fluctuations in ammonia and/or nitrite until you're satisfied the new media has been seeded with bacteria. While you do the water change, vacuum the beejebus out of the gravel too, as it's probably quite dirty. Don't forget to dechlorinate the new water, as well.

Glad to hear you rescued Omen & the others!


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> I think it is fin rot, for sure, and it's caused by poor water quality.
> 
> I would do a filter media change and a 25% water change, and test for fluctuations in ammonia and/or nitrite until you're satisfied the new media has been seeded with bacteria. While you do the water change, vacuum the beejebus out of the gravel too, as it's probably quite dirty. Don't forget to dechlorinate the new water, as well.
> 
> Glad to hear you rescued Omen & the others!



I've KIND of already done some of that. When I moved the tank from his place to mine I saved out about 30 gallons of the old tank water from that tank and both the bio wheels. I didn't have any other arrangements to keep these fish, so they pretty much had to go back in the tank. (the wife wasnt going to stand for buckets of fish around the house with our toddler and baby)

The gravel was removed from the tank and rinsed before going back in and the cartridges for the filter were replaced with new.

I was hoping to keep as much of the established tank as possible without carrying over any of the nasties.

Like I said everyone pretty much had to be back in that tank by the end of the night on pain of death from the Mrs. While not great aquarium practice...good for the longevity of my marriage.

It was about 8 hours worth of work moving everyone around and cleaning up after words.

The gravel is still pretty dirty. I rinsed as well as i could with it being in a 5 gallon bucket, but i was on the clock.

I will be sure to pay special attention and get as much gunk out of the rocks as possible next water change.

I moved everything on Saturday night (from 4-till about midnight) and I did a water test Sunday afternoon. 

Ammonia looked somewhere between 0 a .25ppm, Nitrites were next to 0, however the Nitrate levels were pretty high. I figured the good culture were working overtime?

Which probably means I should do another water change soonish?

I also I'm wondering if there is any need for pro actively treating with antibiotics or something along those lines?


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> Glad to hear you rescued Omen & the others!


I hate to admit, at first I was really only interested in the tank at first. I'd never be able to justify spending money on a tank that large, so to have a chance at getting one I was really excited. His fish were just something I was going to have to "deal" with.

But after I got to know the guy, (hes got a pretty heartbreaking story) and then realized how much those fish had endured, i'm really attached to doing everything i can for them.

Luckily they seem to be doing alright so far.

But I haven't seen Omen eat at all yet, and the catfish is pretty lethargic. 

Omen seems pretty lonley as well, I think they are schooling fish aren't they? I know he switches between kind of schooling with my tetras and then being PO'd at them.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I would avoid doing another water change just yet, as such a huge change in environment could really stress the critters out (osmotic shock and all that). What, exactly, are the nitrate concentrations? Anything over 80 ppm would be a red flag for me.

The nitrate explosion is probably from disturbing the gravel. You essentially destroyed a huge amount of the biological filtration capacity when you overhauled the tank (which I'm glad you did). Gravel can sequester nitrate and, if anaerobic bacteria are present, can even harbor nitrite, ammonia, and hydrogen sulfide.

Just keep an eye on your parameters and if you start seeing nitrates over 80 ppm or concentrations of ammonia and/or nitrite over 1-2 ppm, get your buckets ready.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Poor omen has had it pretty bad. Most of the damage is caused by water quality. I doubt if his top fin will grow back as it looks rotted almost to the bone. Silver dollars do prefer to be in groups of its own kind, but the tank isn't really big enough to handle one with as much as he should grow.

I would imagine right now they are pretty stressed with the move then getting all clean water. With them being in such bad conditions the changes actually should have been done gradually but you didn't have the time to do that. I would keep the lights out most of the time and feed lightly until they get into better shape.

If you can get some aldercones to put into the tank for a few months. It will darken the water to a tea colored but they also have anticeptic properties that will help soothe the fish through this ordeal.


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> I would avoid doing another water change just yet, as such a huge change in environment could really stress the critters out (osmotic shock and all that). What, exactly, are the nitrate concentrations? Anything over 80 ppm would be a red flag for me.
> 
> The nitrate explosion is probably from disturbing the gravel. You essentially destroyed a huge amount of the biological filtration capacity when you overhauled the tank (which I'm glad you did). Gravel can sequester nitrate and, if anaerobic bacteria are present, can even harbor nitrite, ammonia, and hydrogen sulfide.
> 
> Just keep an eye on your parameters and if you start seeing nitrates over 80 ppm or concentrations of ammonia and/or nitrite over 1-2 ppm, get your buckets ready.


I'll test again right when i get home. Nitrate levels the next day were in that range. It was kind of hard to tell, I dunno if my eyes just don't see those colors well but the different between 60 and 80 is pretty subtle on the chart.


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

susankat said:


> Poor omen has had it pretty bad. Most of the damage is caused by water quality. I doubt if his top fin will grow back as it looks rotted almost to the bone. Silver dollars do prefer to be in groups of its own kind, but the tank isn't really big enough to handle one with as much as he should grow.
> 
> I would imagine right now they are pretty stressed with the move then getting all clean water. With them being in such bad conditions the changes actually should have been done gradually but you didn't have the time to do that. I would keep the lights out most of the time and feed lightly until they get into better shape.
> 
> If you can get some aldercones to put into the tank for a few months. It will darken the water to a tea colored but they also have anticeptic properties that will help soothe the fish through this ordeal.


I can kill the lights in there, with the tank lights off that room stays pretty dark. Its actually in my "dining room" next to the kitchen.

That makes sense that it should have been done gradually, i really feel bad for them all. I just didn't have a choice...it was hard for the fish and their previous owner.

I guess i just took the band aid approach. I had been running the lights so i could see what i was doing, but I will keep them off as much as possible and look into the aldercones.

Thats too bad about his top fin...


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

*Update on Omen*

Omen came out and ate today! This was day 5 after the move and he finally came out and grabbed a few flakes.

Here's an updated pic of the tank. Nitrates are still a little high. Still working on bringing them down. 

Still need a background. I've got one picked out, just need to order it.


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

Wow, just want to comment on how awesome your tank looks! I love it! I hope Omen continues to do well! Good for you!


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Me too, that looks really lovely & it's great to hear Omen is eating. He must be feeling happier now. If you showed the guy who had them before
It the pic it might lift his spirit a bit to see his fish in this tank now.
Did you post a pic of this tank before it had the makeover because i can't find it if you did only i love to see the before and after.
It looks great


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

goldie said:


> Me too, that looks really lovely & it's great to hear Omen is eating. He must be feeling happier now. If you showed the guy who had them before
> It the pic it might lift his spirit a bit to see his fish in this tank now.
> Did you post a pic of this tank before it had the makeover because i can't find it if you did only i love to see the before and after.
> It looks great


Unfortunately no I didn't get a before and after shot. The only "before" shot i could have gotten would have been while it was still in his house. I kind of wanted to, but i figured it would have been rude to take pictures of it in its current state. 

I can explain it though....the "Before" was gravel in the bottom and the 4 stones you see in that picture...and that was it. And the stones he had laying flat in the gravel, not standing upright like i have them. 

The center brace of the tank was broken, so he had a yardstick laid across the top so he could keep the glass on, and then he had the light held up with doggie chew toys on either end. (Its true) 

There was so much scale build up on stuff I was using a putty knife to get the bulk of it off, and then vinegar and a scratchy pad to get the rest.

I couldnt put the Penguin biowheel filter's lid on because there was too much scale build up. The cartridges were so plugged up most of the water was coming out of the overflow spot and the biowheels were barely turning....etc. etc. etc.


I didn't know Omen had black spots when i saw him first. he was so stressed out he had no color and no place to hide.

I have sent the update pictures to the previous owner. He's really hard to read though. I think he was pleased.


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

seaecho said:


> Wow, just want to comment on how awesome your tank looks! I love it! I hope Omen continues to do well! Good for you!


Thanks so much! It's nice to hear. I spent a lot of time and money (for a college kid) on my 40 gallon tank I had in college. So most of the plants and extras I have in there came from then.

So cleaning up the tank and making it look nice, Check.

Now i just need to get my fish healthy.

I think im going to start dosing the tank with Stress Coat along with the water changes. Hopefully that will help Omens fins recover.


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

seaecho said:


> Wow, just want to comment on how awesome your tank looks! I love it! I hope Omen continues to do well! Good for you!


I just looked at your photo gallery you have some great lookings tanks too!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

drbromiandufewd said:


> I think im going to start dosing the tank with Stress Coat along with the water changes. Hopefully that will help Omens fins recover.


I've always used Stress Coat and aquarium salt as topical healing remedies. They work well, IMO


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow, poor Omen did look bad. Have you noticed any regrowth at all? Usually the fish can pull through the finrot pretty well if they are young and healthy for the most part. Your main worry is secondary bacterial infections which, as the way you have been taking care of things, sounds like all will do well! 

Very comforting to know he ate as well! You seem to be doing a great job,and the tank looks great!


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

majerah1 said:


> Wow, poor Omen did look bad. Have you noticed any regrowth at all? Usually the fish can pull through the finrot pretty well if they are young and healthy for the most part. Your main worry is secondary bacterial infections which, as the way you have been taking care of things, sounds like all will do well!
> 
> Very comforting to know he ate as well! You seem to be doing a great job,and the tank looks great!


I haven't seen any regrowth yet. I'm really not sure what to expect either. How quickly do fins grow? Its only been 6 days since the move, and only 1 since he's been well enough to eat.

What kind of time frame would you expect to see some improvement?

Like i said, I'm ordering some treatments this weekend to help speed up the process.

I'm dying to get this tank healthy! I want more fish!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I hear ya there. Regrowth should be seen anywhere from three days to a week and a half, depending on the stress level of the fish. It will of course be gradual and not the easiest thing to see when always looking at the fish. You can, in a few days take another picture of him and compare, that would be the easiest way to see the difference.


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## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

majerah1 said:


> I hear ya there. Regrowth should be seen anywhere from three days to a week and a half, depending on the stress level of the fish. It will of course be gradual and not the easiest thing to see when always looking at the fish. You can, in a few days take another picture of him and compare, that would be the easiest way to see the difference.


Great idea. I'll grab some this Sunday.


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