# L.E.D light for planted tank?



## Chillwill007

Does any one know if this L.E.D light would work for a planted tank. It says it uses 6,000k L.E.Ds. I have a 40g breeder tank which is 36L x18Wx16H. So if I go with the 24"-36" it has 68 L.E.Ds & 4 blue L.E.Ds and says its 400 lumens. Or if I go with the 36"-48" model it has 102 L.E.D & 6 blue ones 600 lumens. The blue L.E.Ds say they r 420nm watts. I don't know how all that translates to watts per gallon our par for that matter. I plan on moderatly planting with mostly low light. I've seen other L.E.D light kits that say they r 1 watt each bulb so would that mean these are either 68 watt and 102 way kits? There on sale so I would like to get one since they are also free shipping on them. Here is the link to them
Aquarium Lighting & LED Lights: Marineland Single Bright LED Lighting System


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## Chillwill007

Never mind I got in touch with the company and found out that one is only .06 watts power L.E.D so only like 6 watts total. So no go.


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## elspru

Chillwill007 said:


> Never mind I got in touch with the company and found out that one is only .06 watts power L.E.D so only like 6 watts total. So no go.


I personally have growpanel 28 watts which cost me $140,
but recently I've been getting emails from my made-in-china LED suppliers
So I asked them about their grow lights, and they seem quite reasonable:

COLOR RED(640-670nm）
BLUE (430-460nm )

8 watts, 600 lumen, bulb $28
50 watts, 1800 lumen, circular-lamp $98
100 watts, 3400 lumen, rectangular-lamp $140

those are the factory prices.
Can private message me for more info.


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## NursePlaty

*LED's are brighter than CFL's I think and it uses less watts to be as equally bright. Its like the new LED tv's. Brighter and saves electricity. But its still newly introduced to the aquarium so no one really knows if it is effective at growing plants or not. Unless you are not using it to grow plants then its fine. *


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## Chillwill007

Well ya I want ro have a planted tank thats why I was asking. I planed on mostly using low light plants so was kinda going this would have worked


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## elspru

NursePlaty said:


> *LED's are brighter than CFL's I think and it uses less watts to be as equally bright.
> *


*
yes certainly.
LED's are much more efficient.




Its like the new LED tv's. Brighter and saves electricity. But its still newly introduced to the aquarium so no one really knows if it is effective at growing plants or not.

Click to expand...

Actually there has been large amounts of research at the wavelengths optimal for plant growth.
Photosynthesis happens due to chlorophyll, which has optimal wavelengths of absorption, here is a graph:

as you can see the optimum is red (640-670nm）and blue (430-460nm )
LED's are capable of emitting just those optimal frequencies. 



Chillwill007 said:



Well ya I want to have a planted tank thats why I was asking. I planed on mostly using low light plants so was kinda going this would have worked

Click to expand...

Of course is grows plants. 
Photosynthesis and chlorophyll is in all plants.
In fact I've tested the lights myself,
and I have quite a bit of new growth,
even though it is winter outside,
and my blinds are closed.

Even though my LED is only 28 watts,
the distributor I got it from said it grew tomatoes.

most of the aquarium activity is focused on the front wall of the aquarium where my LED panel is aimed at. 
Many of the plants I got were hibernating for the winter, and now they are growing rather rapidly, 
the top of my aquarium has filled in with duckweed also, which I eat as it's high in protein.


I recently got some watercress from nearby park, hoping it can live in full submersion, 
then will be able to harvest salad vegetables from my aquarium year round. 



Also I've talked to my made-in-china supplier,
they can ship to you direct from the factory.*


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## Chillwill007

Do you have any over of the lights speak over. And r u serious why would you eat something out of your fish tank??


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## Chillwill007

Well I don't know how I feel about the red L.E.Ds. Ange do you have a pic of the actual light and how much would it be in total??/


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## NursePlaty

*Just buy CFLs pigtail 23w bulbs from lowes (4 bulbs for $11), 6500K spectrum and wire them together. Use an old extension cord like from a computer or a vacuum to power it. Then stick it in a wooden frame that you built. I do this for my 20g and my 55g. Both are very efficient at growing plants. *


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## majerah1

Nurseplatty could you do a DIY or show us what you are talking about?I have a lightstrip i would very much like to convert with little money to do so.


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## jrman83

NursePlaty already has a DIY thread.

I like the idea of LEDs, but it would have to be white lights. Colored lighting makes everything look the same color as the light and only a moonlight effect looks half way natural - IMO.


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## elspru

Chillwill007 said:


> Do you have any over of the lights speak over.


I'm not sure what you mean.
I have a spreadsheet they sent me.
By the way, shipping from china-factory seems to be about $11 per kilo.
the 8watt 600lumen bulb with shipping and handling estimated to be $45
the 50watt 1,800 lumen circular lamp with S&H estimated at $135
the 100watt 3,400 lumen rectangular panel with S&H estimated at $200.

I got the grow-panel I have now from Greners, here is the link to their LED selection:
LED Grow Lights - Grow Lights + - Greners.com



> And r u serious why would you eat something out of your fish tank??


It's a planted tank, it has plants growing in it.
Plants are a source of nutrients, 
some are edible for humans,
and also quite tasty. 



jrman83 said:


> NursePlaty already has a DIY thread.
> I like the idea of LEDs, but it would have to be white lights. Colored lighting makes everything look the same color as the light and only a moonlight effect looks half way natural - IMO.


If you want to take pictures of it for a show,
you could use full color lighting, or sunlight.
Though plants only need a few wavelengths.

I know in North American consumerist culture much is about appearances,
and so people grow pretty poisonous plants in their yards and aquariums.
Usually under the pretense that "wouldn't want the wildlife to benefit from it".

but in much of the rest of the world,
where food is considered a precious commodity,
and people produce food themselves, 
they grow edible and useful plants.

Aesthetics is frequently an afterthought,
after you and your family are fed and clothed.
Sacred geometry does increase production, so can be used.
Also note that aqueous have very high production rates,
so can grow more food in less space when using an aquarium.

The initial intent of my planted aquarium was to provide for breathing air in my room, 
with the amount of plants in the aquarium and deep-sand-bed, 
the water is quite clean, so are the plants harvested from it for food.
While you don't have to eat them, it is a year-round source of home-grown plants.


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## Chillwill007

Ok so u don't have fish in your aquarium? I looked at that sight. Lots of cool stuff but I have a 36" tank and those are small. They are more for just planting. They have a lot of nice light stuff for smaller tanks like that lil 125 watt cfl kit but even that's only 18". thanks for the info


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## NursePlaty

*Here is the link to the thread. *

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f34/diy-large-hood-55g-walkthrough-7596.html

*If it doesnt work, then you can just go to the "Freshwater Do-It-Yourself" category and it should be called diy large hood 55g walkthrough on the 2nd page. *


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## beaslbob

elspru said:


> ...
> 
> By the way, shipping from china-factory seems to be about $11 per kilo.
> the 8watt 600lumen bulb with shipping and handling estimated to be $45
> the 50watt 1,800 lumen circular lamp with S&H estimated at $135
> the 100watt 3,400 lumen rectangular panel with S&H estimated at $200.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Just repeating from memory what I have heard on some other forums.


the spectrum shown is almost exactly the actinic (blue) type lights used for simulating the deap water light where the reds are filtered out by the water to a blue at depths below 30' or so.

at your local home depot are $10 t-8 fixtures and 2/$6 32 watt 6500k tubes. Each tube is rated a 2500 lumens and 40w 4300k tubes are rated at 3300 lumens.
So for $16 you get 5000 lumens at your local home depot. and you only use 64w to fire up those tubes. compared to 3400 lumens requiring 100w at $100+$200 s&H.

So it doesn't seem to make any sense to use these lights.

Perhaps a PAR rating would show some advantage. PAR is more for the lights plants use and in the frequence spectrum shown here.


LEDs are creating a stir right now but the facts presented do not support using these lights

my .02


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## elspru

beaslbob said:


> Just repeating from memory what I have heard on some other forums.
> 
> the spectrum shown is almost exactly the actinic (blue) type lights used for simulating the deap water light where the reds are filtered out by the water to a blue at depths below 30' or so.


which spectrum are you looking at?

LED lights typically have a lot more red than blue, as plants typically use more red than blue.



> at your local home depot are $10 t-8 fixtures and 2/$6 32 watt 6500k tubes. Each tube is rated a 2500 lumens and 40w 4300k tubes are rated at 3300 lumens.
> So for $16 you get 5000 lumens at your local home depot. and you only use 64w to fire up those tubes. compared to 3400 lumens requiring 100w at $100+$200 s&H.


but CFL lumens are over a broad spectrum.
whereas the LED lumens are specific to what plants grow best at.
so a 100w LED light is the same as a 500w Metal Halide lamp.

Here is a website citing research by NASA into how LED is more effective than HID among other research about wavelength and such:
The Lowdown on LED Lighting



> Perhaps a PAR rating would show some advantage. PAR is more for the lights plants use and in the frequence spectrum shown here.


actually PAR is Parabolic Aluminized Reflector, is used more for theatrical performances.
Parabolic aluminized reflector light: Information from Answers.com



> LEDs are creating a stir right now but the facts presented do not support using these lights


LED's also have life-expectancies much more than CFL's
here have a look at this LED to Incandescent to CFL comparison site:
LED light bulbs: Comparison charts - Eartheasy.com Solutions for Sustainable Living
It finds that using LED's for all household lighting is economical.

Well I hope now that you have more links to sources you can agree there is support for using them.

By the way, my day-night timer is set to spring, 14 hour days, and my cats have gone into heat, 
even though they aren't supposed to go into heat between November and February.
So clearly it is bright enough to trigger some of their internal biological clocks.
they do their in-heat moaning-meow, have swollen nipples, and beg for petting.
I'll change it to late autumn 9hr timing see if they revert to normal.
I realize that it may have affected my female partner also,
she goes to school in the day, so has limited exposure.
Lustful spring in December, is a novel experience,
here in Eh-land we are in northern hemisphere.


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## beaslbob

elspru said:


> ...
> 
> actually PAR is Parabolic Aluminized Reflector, is used more for theatrical performances.
> 
> ...


that's one PAR but not the PAR I was speaking of.

Check out:

Photosynthetically active radiation


Photosynthetically active radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Photosynthetically active radiation, often abbreviated PAR, designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis.


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## jrman83

I think the whole idea of LEDs is great, longer life, cheaper, etc.. Somebody just needs to figure out what is best for X tank and market it properly with the research to back it up. For me it would need to be a white light, or at least look normal to me when I look at the tank. That bottom pic you posted is just ugly...I didn't pay all the money I've paid to look at a multiple shade all-red blob. It's a cool effect for night maybe, but I prefer to see thing in their natural colors. Can't imagine what that would look like to someone who is color blind - although it could be the same as normal for them.


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## Chillwill007

Thanks for the reply guys.

So beaslbob I don't have any light at all yet. So I could just go to home depot find a 36" fixture and buy those bulbs? What section should I look for the fixture? Over with the shop vacs and drop lighting? And guess I would have to have a glass top and just set them on top since they won't have any legs like the aquarium ones have right?


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## beaslbob

Chillwill007 said:


> Thanks for the reply guys.
> 
> So beaslbob I don't have any light at all yet. So I could just go to home depot find a 36" fixture and buy those bulbs? What section should I look for the fixture? Over with the shop vacs and drop lighting? And guess I would have to have a glass top and just set them on top since they won't have any legs like the aquarium ones have right?


Under the assumption you have a 36" tank there are two things to do.

the really cheap lights are 4' utility lights which work nicely with 4' tanks.

they are in the lighting section.

For a tank top you can use 1/4"square plastic grid lighting diffusers for drop ceilings. Here those are referred to as egg crate. They are sometimes in the lighting section but more always in the ceiling sections for drop ceilings. a 2'x4' section is like $10 or so. I just cut to size then place them on the egg crate with a couple of 2x4 peices holding the light off the egg crate.

With 3' tanks I once cut 1' off one of the 4' fixtures and that did work well but obviously was a lot of work.

Another option for smaller tank is the eggcrate but the using the spiral screw in bulbs in the round clip on reflectors. The reflectors are usually in the electrical section. 6500k spiral bulbs are available from wall mart. Be sure to look for the actual watts not the incandescent replacement wattage. Those bulbs have something like 15w=90w where the 15w is the actual the 90w is the watts of the incandescent bulb it is meant to replace.

using those I just placed the round reflectors on the egg crate and got very nice effects on tanks of say 20g longs up to 36" wide tanks.

For the "lowly" 10g I looked around untill I found one of the old style incandescent hoods. I then just use the "skinny" spiral screw in tubes with excellent results.

my .02


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## mfgann

I'm all for LED lighting, as you should have a much longer life, but they are still pricey, no one has a good measurement of how much is enough for plants, etc.. So I stuck with florescent.
I have a 36" long tank and a standard hood that had a single 25" T12 florescent bulb. In home depot I found a 36" dual bulb T5 replacement fixture (its over where the florescent strip lighting is. It comes with 2 T5 bulbs and its in a little box a little bigger than a T12 florescent bulb itself. Buy a couple of 1/4" bolts and nuts too. I went home. unscrewed the T12 bulb fixture from its hood, set the T5 in the hood (perfect fit), and drilled two holes in the hood for the bolts where the boltholes line up. I then used the supplied nut-screws to attach it to the old wiring and then bolted it in with the bolts and nuts I had. Viola.
It lights up my tank MUCH better, being the proper length, and gets me up to 42 watts. Still need another 20 or so, but the plants that were growing under the old 20W T12 should be happy. The only problem is the T5 bulbs that came with it are not the right color range. Very yellowy. I need to buy some 6500K T5 bulbs, but at that length they're more rare. I can get them at 1000bulbs.com though.

It went well enough I'm thinking of making a custom hood to add another dual strip to get the wattage up. I was really impressed with the dramatic change in lighting. 

On my 10G and 2.5G they both had hoods to take regular light bulbs. I just bought "daylight" spiral compact florescent bulbs for both, aiming for about 3W/g, and everything seems to be going well.
Good luck.


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## elspru

jrman83 said:


> I think the whole idea of LEDs is great, longer life, cheaper, etc.. Somebody just needs to figure out what is best for X tank and market it properly with the research to back it up. For me it would need to be a white light, or at least look normal to me when I look at the tank.


It's possible if we add carotene wavelength at 500 blue-green it would look more like natural light.




> That bottom pic you posted is just ugly...I didn't pay all the money I've paid to look at a multiple shade all-red blob.


lol ya, it's actually there was a bunch of algae growth I didn't clean off for the pic.

on the bright side my watercress grew several inches, both the plants now poke their head out of the water with several branches with leaves.




> It's a cool effect for night maybe,


Actually for night time the best wavelengths are from 530 till 630 nanometers (green to orange).


for night-light, I suggest wavelengths 530 (green), 580 (yellow) 630(orange). 



> but I prefer to see thing in their natural colors. Can't imagine what that would look like to someone who is color blind - although it could be the same as normal for them.


You could have the night-lights on during the day, and you'd have full-spectrum lighting.


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## aalina387

i think it will work for aquarium.LED lights stay relatively cool.They require less voltage.


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## phys

Hi everybody,
As i am looking into building my own LED system for my reef tank in progress, i have been looking at a lot of stuff for them.

First of all, the reason why the chinese company puts 800 led's onto one of their fixtures is because each of those led's are not intense enough to supply a good amount of light. 800 led's seems to be a waste for such an endevour. LED companies have recently been making 1, 3, and 5 watt (some even go up to 12 watts each but are very pricey right now) LED's which have a much more reasonable light output. 

Some forum's i've seen have people using about 24 LED's for a 29 gallon reef tank have noticed improvements in their corals using 3 watt led's. This is for a reef tank which seems to require about two to three times as much light as a planted tank and 4-5 times as much for an unplanted tank. So taking the 24 three watt LED's used for a 29 gallon tank and extrapolating for a planted 29 gallon tank, you should only need about 12 LED's. Cut that in half yet again for a fish-only tank. Most people i've seen using these for their reefs use a mixture of 5000-10000 K LED's and 420-450nm blue LED's. For a planted tank, this should be complimentary. 

The Kelvin rating for the white led's, btw, is controlled by the (i believe) amperage (500 mA - 1000 mA) so is adjustable by the user.

The other idea that LED's have a better spectral output is quite true with a few misconceptions. The posted images of the chlorophill spectral sensitivites are quite correct. The WHITE LED's have a spectral response closely matching the chlorophill sensitivities as well as having a response in much of the region it is not sensitive to. The blue led's (actinic as you have heard) have only an output between approximately 410-500nm which is perfect for plants and corals. 

The terms you have heard as wattage isnt the light output of the lamps, but the energy usage. Since LED's are quite a bit more efficiant than fluorescent lamps, the wattage you see relative to the output is skewed in comparison. Also, the light coming from a fluorescent light fixture is being output over a much wider area than the LED's so the lumen output you get from something like a T5 bulb isnt being directed fully downward into a tank, unlike the LED which has a very tight light output. So, you get all the energy focused where it belongs which also leads to you needing less wattage and light output. But, you may have to raise the fixture over the tank to get the spread you need and may also have to add a few LED's to help with the brightness after being raised. 

I'm planning on using 24 three watt LED's for my 20 gallon reef tank, 12 white and 12 blue. I have priced the cost of these and the power supply required and its a reasonbly priced 150 bucks to build it yourself without purchasing a kit. You'll need to get a heat sink so that will add to the cost. I'm using the heat sink from an old stereo amplifier so that was pretty much no cost (at this time but was when i purchased it several years ago) for me. I may find that i will have to add another set of LED's onto the fixture but when you DIY, its a lot easier to modify your system.

If everyone would like, when i build my system, i'll do a step by step with everything involved as well as keep track of the growth of the corals i add to the tank. Then I'll be able to better inform you about how many LED's you'll have to use for your tanks. Personally, if it works out, 150 bucks for a system that will work for 5 years with no replacement is well worth the cost.


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## aquaticsnerd

Here's what I did on my Seaclear 50g tank (using the Casco top that came with it):

24V Power Supply (can power two of the 24" LED strips)
27 SMD 24" LED Under Counter Light Strip 8 Watt, white, 2041WH (buy the white--not the warm white)
End to end connector (if you plan to use two or more--connects two strips to one power supply)

I used two of the strips on the rear part of the Casco hood and cut out the front part with a dremel. I placed a Marineland Double Bright LED light system (36-48" model) on the front part. You can see how bright it is in the photo in my profile.
If you require more light, then you can find more powerful LED strips out there, but they can get expensive.


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## jrman83

aquaticsnerd said:


> Here's what I did on my Seaclear 50g tank (using the Casco top that came with it):
> 
> 24V Power Supply (can power two of the 24" LED strips)
> 27 SMD 24" LED Under Counter Light Strip 8 Watt, white, 2041WH (buy the white--not the warm white)
> End to end connector (if you plan to use two or more--connects two strips to one power supply)
> 
> I used two of the strips on the rear part of the Casco hood and cut out the front part with a dremel. I placed a Marineland Double Bright LED light system (36-48" model) on the front part. You can see how bright it is in the photo in my profile.
> If you require more light, then you can find more powerful LED strips out there, but they can get expensive.


Tank looks good. How long have you had your plants in there with the LEDs.


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## aquaticsnerd

jrman83 said:


> Tank looks good. How long have you had your plants in there with the LEDs.


The tank has been setup since Jan.


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## balutpenoy2oy

NursePlaty said:


> *Just buy CFLs pigtail 23w bulbs from lowes (4 bulbs for $11), 6500K spectrum and wire them together. Use an old extension cord like from a computer or a vacuum to power it. Then stick it in a wooden frame that you built. I do this for my 20g and my 55g. Both are very efficient at growing plants. *




I saw pigtail CFL colored red and blue , do they posses same spectra plants needed. If it does I think this more economical than LED system for DIY person. They are 13 W for 100 W all you need is 8 pcs ,I don't know how much heat it generates.

Just my .02c


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## phys

More research has come up with some great numbers. I've found that Cree XP-G white LED's can output as much as 493 Lumens per LED if driven at 1.5 amps. But thats a lot of amps. If you bump it back down to 1 amp, you can still get 347 lumens from a single LED. So driving 12 of these at 1 amp, you can get 4164 lumens! They are quite well priced at around 7 bucks. A royal blue Cree XP-E can output 72 lumens per watt and if driven at 3 watts (1amp) you can obtain 216 lumens per LED. Drive 12 of those and you have 2592 lumens and are only about 5 bucks per LED. So combine these two for your system and you can have a total of 6756 lumens for 144 bucks minus the driver which is about 58 dollars plus shipping. This provides 6756 lumens at only 72 watts of power. 

Compare this to the T5HO 54 watt which outputs 5000 lumens but is not as effective due to the PAR/PUR output and light dispursion. Lets say that due to directional decreases in the T5HO and par rating decrease the effectiveness of the bulb, assuming 180 degrees of the light is not falling directly into the water and a 10% better PAR from the LED this give us an effective 2000 lumens from the T5HO reaching the water. Which means you would need 3 of them to match the effectiveness of the LED's. I'm assuming this on a conservative loss. This also brings up power usage to 162 watts which is twice the power usage as the LEDs. This is only an estimate though but even with a reflector on the T5 housing which is usually only about a 60% reflectivity, the LED's are still much more efficiant. Add that to the continuing cost for replace bulbs every 6-9 months compared to the LED's 17,000 hrs (at about 1amp instead of 350mA, it is decreased from 50000 to 17,000) and is still almost 4 years without replacement if assuming you keep your lights on 12 hrs a day 365 days a year. 

If you get an amperage adjustable driver, you can change the kelvin rating anywhere from 5000 - 10000K (which also changes the lumen output). This can be quite useful when you'd like to adjust for realistic enviroments.

If you're not doing a reef, you can supplement the royal blue (actinic) LEDs with the white and gain up to 8328 lumens for 24 LEDs at 1 amp. That should be quite sufficiant for many planted aquariums and there is definately room (considering they're only 3.5-4mm each) for expansion.

I'll keep you updated when i get more information so we can all learn something.


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## aalina387

*The Advantages Of Using Grow Lights*

i think LED lights are better than clf lights,these would be best for aquarium they produce less heat....


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## aquaticsnerd

Original source

*How Bright is that LED Bulb?*
How bright is it? That’s a simple question that deserves a simple answer.
How do we compare the brightness of Compact Fluorescent Light (“CFL”) bulbs to incandescent lights? We say that a 13 watt CFL with the brightness of a 60 watt incandescent bulb is a “60 watt-equivalent, 13 watt CFL.” The CFL bulb uses only 13 watts of power (what you pay for,) but it generates the light of a 60 watt incandescent bulb. Therefore, the CFL uses only 13/60 = 22% of the power of the incandescent to generate the same brightness.
For white LED’s we use the same system, and rate our bulbs by “watt-equivalent,” with incandescent light as the reference just like before. So, a 7-watt LED that generates the brightness of a 70-watt incandescent bulb is a “70 watt-equivalent, 7 watt LED.” The LED uses only 10% of the power of the incandescent to generate the same brightness. That 90% energy savings is typical for LED’s, versus incandescents. (Incandescents are inefficient light sources: they generate over 90% heat and less than 10% light.)
That may be all you wanted to know about “how bright it is.” Just compare watt-equivalents to get an idea how that LED will compare with an incandescent in brightness.

So assuming what I posted from that document is correct
1W LED = 10W incandescent

This chart also confirms the above


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