# Starting a planted tank



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I want to do something different so I am going to throw my hat into the ring and start a fresh water planted tank, but I have a few questions. It will be a 20gal long tank with T5 lighting. My back ground is in salt water so I know not all the same rules will apply. In the beginning I just want to do some Anacharis and Hygrophilia. My first question is do I have to have a sand bed or can I use gravel? And secound will I need more then a few air stones or will that be enough Oxygen? And last can I use 10k bulbs or should I use 67k and and some atinic for more color? Thanks


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

You can use gravel, just try to avoid the huge gravel. Air stones aren't really needed as they tend to deplete the CO2 from the water. 10,000 bulbs will work just fine.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

squirrelcrusher said:


> You can use gravel, just try to avoid the huge gravel. Air stones aren't really needed as they tend to deplete the CO2 from the water. 10,000 bulbs will work just fine.


Any info on the plants that I'm trying? are they rooted or will they float?


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## Sweet Tee (Nov 24, 2009)

I believe the Anacharis can be planted or floated along the top of the tank. I ordered some last night and I'll probably float it along the top for my gourami once I get one. I'm not familiar with the other plant though.


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

Glad you're trying a planted tank! I think you'll find it rewarding (not to mention beautiful). As SweetTee says the anacharis doesn't need to be planted in the substrate at all. You can use plant weights or a rock and fishing line to keep them in line if you want them to be that way. Or you can plant it if you want, it's a really hardy plant and will grow either way.

There are literally tons of hygrophlia's, so if the know the scientific name of it we can tell you more. Generally though they need to be planted in the substrate because they have root systems. Also, google PlantGeek, as there is an amazing amount of knowledge there regarding different species. 

As a side note, anacharis is a fast growing plant that is a great absorber of nutrients. 

10,000k lights should be ok, as you are using T5's, but 6500 or 6700 are want plants really want. Also, if you aren't injecting CO2, with T5's you may have algae issues. How many bulbs are you using? Are they 24"?


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

obscbyclouds said:


> Glad you're trying a planted tank! I think you'll find it rewarding (not to mention beautiful). As SweetTee says the anacharis doesn't need to be planted in the substrate at all. You can use plant weights or a rock and fishing line to keep them in line if you want them to be that way. Or you can plant it if you want, it's a really hardy plant and will grow either way.
> 
> There are literally tons of hygrophlia's, so if the know the scientific name of it we can tell you more. Generally though they need to be planted in the substrate because they have root systems. Also, google PlantGeek, as there is an amazing amount of knowledge there regarding different species.
> 
> ...


I'll find the scientific name of the hygrophlia I was looking at. I do plan to use CO2 some where down the line but not just yet. I want to get my feet wet first. Then after I get a working knowledge and the hang of it I'll move up to a bigger tank. Question what other substrate can I use insted of gravel? Or will the root system of the hygrophlia be hurt or even die? As far as the bulbs go there will be two 28watt 24" T5's and to add some color I was thinking about maybe one bulb for atinic. Or am I looking at this wrong? I know in a salt water tank 10k's have a yellow hue to them, is it the same way for fresh water? If not I won't need any atinic and just go with the 65 or 6700 bulbs. 
I like the fish line idea I can already see it, it will look like it just hanging in mid air(water) in the middle of the tank. That bring me to another question, will I need to add a power head or two? Is flow as important in a fresh water tank as it is in a salt water tank?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Ok..first the lighting. the 10k bulbs will just be..."ok". Not very recommended in the planting world.

Second...at that light...you will need start right off with ferts and CO2.

Third...actinics do nothing for the freshwater world except add ambiance for night viewing.

Would highly suggest starting with the 6700 bulbs.

You can use the power head to help diffuse the CO2. Depending on the species (not too many), flow will not be much a factor. Your exception would be a river tank like Hillstreams and such.

Any substrate will work. The gravel will be more of a pain to deal with. For a planted tank, look to a nutrient rich substrate like Flourite, Eco-Complete, Turface, etc. I have seen some custom soils available online as well.


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

Yes, as James says with that much light you'll need CO2. I have the same amount of T5 light in my 29 gallon and it would be algae soup without CO2 and ferts. The idea of adding co2 and ferts to a high light tank is to get the plants growing to a point that they out compete the algae for nutrients. I wouldn't use actinic bulbs either as all they do is promote more algae growth. 

You can make a simple DIY CO2 reactor for a small tank like that by using a 2L soda bottle filled with yeast, sugar, and water (some say baking soda too, though I don't use it). If you look up DIY Co2, you'll find tons of recipes and instructions for making your own system. A power head would be a great way to diffuse the co2 into your tank. Flow is not critical in a planted tank as it is SW reef tanks.

The problem with plain gravel is that plants don't really like to root in it very well and you could find yourself replanting them a lot! It also needs to be enriched with fertilizer tabs every few months.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Here I thought it was going to be easy...I'm going to look into a DIY CO2 reactor because I really want to use the T5's. I still have to make a canopy for the tank so I might as well do it all at once. If you would give me some other plant names to look up before I start to stock. I can see those sleepless nights all over again just like when I started my first salt water tank. Just to make sure, when you say ferts you do mean fertilizer right? So no atinic is needed. And I should start CO2 right away. I'll keep this thread going through out this build. Oh happy days!!! OK I looked up a few reactors and now I have a few more questions...Just what part does the CO2 play? And is this something I will have to replenish or do I just add the reactor and that's it?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Well...CO2 is vital for all plants to survive. But that's another science lesson. ;o)

DIY CO2 systems can last anywhere from 2 weeks to a month depending on how it's done and room conditions. Mine usually last a little over a month before having to recharge. By recharge, I mean you mix up another batch of yeast mixture.

What type of filter do you have? If you have a canister, you can put the CO2 tube right at the canisters intake. That will provide for the best diffusion. If it is an HOB kind, you can diffuse through either limewood or even a glass diffuser. Depending on you vessel of course.

As for plants...the sky's the limit. Your LFS will only carry a very select few if that. I would suggest checking online as there are a few good places out there to order from.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> Well...CO2 is vital for all plants to survive. But that's another science lesson. ;o)
> 
> DIY CO2 systems can last anywhere from 2 weeks to a month depending on how it's done and room conditions. Mine usually last a little over a month before having to recharge. By recharge, I mean you mix up another batch of yeast mixture.
> 
> ...


I may have worded that wrong...I know what the co2 does what I should have asked is how does the reactor work? Does it just keep running until it all out or will I have to set it up and add it daily? And yes it will have a canister filter. Tell me alittle more about the diffusion.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Gotcha...my apologies. The reactor is the vessel where the CO2 is generated. It contains your ingredients. Once you get it set up, you won't have to do anything else to it until it fizzles out. What happens is the yeast have consumed all the sugar and the alcohol level gets too high for them to survive. This is where bubble counters come in to play. While not required, it helps to let you when to put in a fresh batch.

I thought I had posted my DIY CO2 generator here but turns out I didn't. I'll post it shortly.

As for the diffusion part, this is where the CO2 actually mixes in with the water. The more contact that the bubbles have with the water, the more gas actually gets to the tank. Once the bubbles reach the surface and pop, the gas is lost.

Since canister filters are closed systems, this gives the CO2 more of an opportunity to fully disolve in the water.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

I just posted my DIY CO2 method.

Here's the link:

DIY CO2 Made Easy


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I just posted my DIY CO2 method.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> DIY CO2 Made Easy


OK Looks simple enough...what I don't understand is the jell-o do I add all of it when I set this up or will my grand kids have some of the left overs? And what does it do?( won't it melt back down?) secoundly where does the air stone go, and is that what pushes the mix from one bottle to the other? And lastly I know this goes up from the beginning, but do I add it after the first plant or after the water goes in?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Just my .02 here.

1) you don't need co2

2) you dont need circulation or mechanical filters.

3) I use a substarte that is 1" peat moss (no frets added), 1" play sand,1" pc select

4) for a 20g I would use 10 bunches of anacharis, 10 vals, 10 small potted plants and a single amazon sword.

5) for lighting I use 3 15w spiral compact flourescents 6,500 k avalable from wall mart. In round clip on spot reflectors. For a top I use an egg crate cut to size and just put the light on top of the egg crate.

I set the tank up and let it set a week. Then add a single fish and wait a week with no food being added. I then more or less stock up the tank and start feeding 1-2 flakes per day.

my .02


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> OK Looks simple enough...what I don't understand is the jell-o do I add all of it when I set this up or will my grand kids have some of the left overs? And what does it do?( won't it melt back down?) secoundly where does the air stone go, and is that what pushes the mix from one bottle to the other? And lastly I know this goes up from the beginning, but do I add it after the first plant or after the water goes in?


1) The Jell-O is so the mixture will last longer. As it slowly dissolves, it will release more sugars to the yeast. Unfortunately, no there shouldn't be any left overs for the kiddies. Not sure you would want them to have that much sugar anyway. ;o)

2) The airstone (diffuser) can go any where in the tank. The best placement for it will be under the output of an HOB or right at the intake for a canister. The pressure from the reactor vessel pushes the gas from bottle to bottle to tank.

3) You can add it at any point during the process. I would say that if you are just getting it set up, to add it first. That way you'll get the hang of it.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

beaslbob said:


> Just my .02 here.
> 
> 1) you don't need co2
> 
> ...


I already have the lights, so I have to work with what I have. With the peat moss can I for go the sand and add gravel on top of that? This is for my wife so of course it has to look pretty. And by adding the peat moss I don't have to add fertilizer ?


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> 1) The Jell-O is so the mixture will last longer. As it slowly dissolves, it will release more sugars to the yeast. Unfortunately, no there shouldn't be any left overs for the kiddies. Not sure you would want them to have that much sugar anyway. ;o)
> 
> 2) The airstone (diffuser) can go any where in the tank. The best placement for it will be under the output of an HOB or right at the intake for a canister. The pressure from the reactor vessel pushes the gas from bottle to bottle to tank.
> 
> 3) You can add it at any point during the process. I would say that if you are just getting it set up, to add it first. That way you'll get the hang of it.


 OK I have everything for the reactor, but before I start to put it together I want to get a better understanding of the substrate like the peat moss and gravel. And will I be able to add fish right away? Is there a cycle you have to go through for fresh water? My wife has 3 gold fish in a tank on the stand I have to use for this set up and I don't want them to be homeless she would kill me she has had them for years. And I need to know about PH phosphate's and Nitrates where should they be in a fresh water tank. I do understand water chemistry, but me being a salty I feel like a guy how has worked on BMW's for years and then somebody brings him a chevette and says fix this and make it go faster. I just didn't know it was this much to a fresh water tank. I have a new found respect for the work you'll put into this type of tank.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I just posted my DIY CO2 method.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> DIY CO2 Made Easy


There is still one part I'm missing, The air stone is what's in the tank I got that the big bottle is where the jell-o goes but what did you put in the small bottle? I know the big bottle loops to the small bottle and then to the tank. So is it just the gas that is pushes into the secound bottle? And what keeps the level in check? Is it possible to add to much since it will be running 24/7 and one more thing when it's time to replenish are you doing the whole mix again starting with the jell-o ?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> OK I have everything for the reactor, but before I start to put it together I want to get a better understanding of the substrate like the peat moss and gravel. And will I be able to add fish right away? Is there a cycle you have to go through for fresh water? My wife has 3 gold fish in a tank on the stand I have to use for this set up and I don't want them to be homeless she would kill me she has had them for years. And I need to know about PH phosphate's and Nitrates where should they be in a fresh water tank. I do understand water chemistry, but me being a salty I feel like a guy how has worked on BMW's for years and then somebody brings him a chevette and says fix this and make it go faster. I just didn't know it was this much to a fresh water tank. I have a new found respect for the work you'll put into this type of tank.


Good Morning and first off....Merry Christmas!

Peat is usually used as a bottom layer. You will need something finer than gravel to cover the peat as it will work its way through the gravel. You can do a layer of peat, sand then gravel if you want. Have you thought about the look you want? (I.e. gravel, sand, etc.)

You can add a couple fish now and do a fishy cycle. Though not very popular it can be done. When cycling the tank this way, you will have to be very diligent on testing and maintenance so as to not harm the fishies. Are the goldies going in here?

Your water parms will vary. One thing to note with peat is that it will lower your PH. While most species are adaptable to most PH levels, it is important to know what stocking you will be going with as some species prefer lower or higher than "normal" PH values. An ideal range would be 6.8 - 7.4.

The small bottle (gas seperator) is just filled with water. The gas created will build up in the reactor vessel and be pushed through the tubing to the seperator bottle. You will see the bubbles coming out of the tube and can get an idea of how much gas is being generated. Then as the pressure builds in the seperator bottle, the same process as before. It will get pushed into the tank.

With DIY CO2, you will not be adding too much gas to the tank..even for a 24x7 setup. What most people do is to run a standard air stone at night to get O2 into the tank. Plants use O2 during the night time.

When using the Jell-O method, after the gas level drops to where it is no longer effective, you pour out the water on the top and replenish with a new yeast batch. The only time you add Jell-O is if you are starting completely from scratch. I normally recharge with new yeast once and then redo the entire mix.

Use a device called a drop checker to determine your CO2 level. This is a small container that has a fluid called 4dKH solution in it. You want it to be Green. This tells you that you have the proper amount of gas. Blue will be too little and Yellow is too much.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> Good Morning and first off....Merry Christmas!
> 
> Peat is usually used as a bottom layer. You will need something finer than gravel to cover the peat as it will work its way through the gravel. You can do a layer of peat, sand then gravel if you want. Have you thought about the look you want? (I.e. gravel, sand, etc.)
> 
> ...


 Merry Christmas! And thanks for all the help and yes the gold fish are staying hope that's not a problem? I'll do the peat moss and sand then gravel I'm sure it will have to be a thin layer of gravel. I started to make up the water this morning. And tomorrow I'll get everything else. I'll post pics soon. Thanks again


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## chadasmus (Dec 26, 2009)

i tried using peat moss that was intended for planters, then sand, but no gravel. my water was really cloudy for a week or two and then was really yellow to an almost brown color for a month or more before i just removed it all. is that normal and is there a way to get rid of the color in the water? did i use the wrong kind or is that what you use? i had 2 different tanks with plants and after 6 monthes or so algea would take over and kill the plants, i'm sure it was because of not haveing the co2 thing. when i finnally make it home and can start my new tank i will try that, so thanks for the info!!!!!!!!


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

The peat will release tannins which will color the water to a "tea" color. It's personal preference whether to keep it like that or not. Me personally, with the right lighting...it looks much better. To remove it, add carbon to your filter and increase water changes.

The key to good planted tanks is balance. You have to achieve the proper balance between lighting and nutrients.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

chadasmus said:


> i tried using peat moss that was intended for planters, then sand, but no gravel. my water was really cloudy for a week or two and then was really yellow to an almost brown color for a month or more before i just removed it all. is that normal and is there a way to get rid of the color in the water? did i use the wrong kind or is that what you use? i had 2 different tanks with plants and after 6 monthes or so algea would take over and kill the plants, i'm sure it was because of not haveing the co2 thing. when i finnally make it home and can start my new tank i will try that, so thanks for the info!!!!!!!!


The reason I give the instructions to add 1" peat moss, then wet, level and clean, then add 1" sand and repeat is to prevent that initial cloudiness.

with no circulation the inital brown cloudiness will clear up in a day or two. Continued cloudiness can be cleared up by killing the lights until the water is clear.

I recommend peat moss in "bales" at $10 a bale with no added nutrients.

I use no co2. I will rarely get algae, cyano, cloudiness and in all those cases kill the lights and stop feeding until it clears. 

FWIW it is possible that algae (cyano) can overtake the tank and kill the plants. but killing the lights not only kills off the cyano but also returns nitrates the plants need.


my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> I already have the lights, so I have to work with what I have. With the peat moss can I for go the sand and add gravel on top of that? This is for my wife so of course it has to look pretty. And by adding the peat moss I don't have to add fertilizer ?


Yes you can use peat->sand->gravel. (IMHO top layer is for looks)
The peat moss and fish wastes will provide all the nutrients the plants need. Actually, the peat helps keep the softness constant in my no water change tanks. So there is water conditioning in addition to nutrients.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

This brings me to another question about KH and GH I'll be using RO water. Will eather of these become an issue? And is this the same cyano you would see in a salt water tank? If so that would be a algae problem it would be a bacterial issue right? I just about have all I need to get started I'm still waiting on the hood it should be finshed tomorrow or Monday. So I think I'll go a head and start laying my substrate. In addition to co2 can I add like a bubble wand as well? And should I add carbon right away to clear up any cloudiness I may have?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> This brings me to another question about KH and GH I'll be using RO water. Will eather of these become an issue? And is this the same cyano you would see in a salt water tank? If so that would be a algae problem it would be a bacterial issue right? I just about have all I need to get started I'm still waiting on the hood it should be finshed tomorrow or Monday. So I think I'll go a head and start laying my substrate. In addition to co2 can I add like a bubble wand as well? And should I add carbon right away to clear up any cloudiness I may have?


I don't use RO/DI water in any of my planted tanks. With ro/di you may have to add stuff to bring kh and gh up. and the plants filter out the nasties like copper.

The cyano is very similiar to saltwater cyano but obviously a FW version. True to the name in FW it is actually a blue green color. And it is a slime on the plants and grass. And yes it is a bacteria. Still I just kill the lights to fight it. It does show up when nitrates drop down to 0 and some FW planted type actually dose nitrates to help keep the plants thriving.

Yes you can add a bubble want if you want too.

carbon and water polishers and diatomous earth filters will clear up cloudy tanks. But all I do in kill the lights untill it clears.


my late .02


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

beaslbob said:


> I don't use RO/DI water in any of my planted tanks. With ro/di you may have to add stuff to bring kh and gh up. and the plants filter out the nasties like copper.
> 
> The cyano is very similiar to saltwater cyano but obviously a FW version. True to the name in FW it is actually a blue green color. And it is a slime on the plants and grass. And yes it is a bacteria. Still I just kill the lights to fight it. It does show up when nitrates drop down to 0 and some FW planted type actually dose nitrates to help keep the plants thriving.
> 
> ...


Ok this is what I have so far...I don't have any water in the tank yet I don't want to set it up I don't have to hood done. I have a bag of peat moss a bag of sand and gravel phosban reactor(for carbon) co2 reactor and a few plants floating in another tank. I just might go a head and set it up tomorrow and use shop lights in the mean time. Is there anything else I may be missing?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> Ok this is what I have so far...I don't have any water in the tank yet I don't want to set it up I don't have to hood done. I have a bag of peat moss a bag of sand and gravel phosban reactor(for carbon) co2 reactor and a few plants floating in another tank. I just might go a head and set it up tomorrow and use shop lights in the mean time. Is there anything else I may be missing?


With RO water, depending on your plants, you will have to dose some kind of ferts as all the nutrients are removed during the process. If your not comfortable with dry fertilizers as yet, you can look at using Seachems line of products. But that is a little more on expensive side. I would recommend starting out with a PMDD pre mix and then gradually switching to EI dosing. If you are interested in dry ferts, check out AquariumFertilizer.com.

Shop lights are a good/cheap alternative. I use them on most of my tanks.

Sounds like you're good to go.


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## chadasmus (Dec 26, 2009)

do the dry fertilizers work better?
and is there a certain kind that you recommend?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> Ok this is what I have so far...I don't have any water in the tank yet I don't want to set it up I don't have to hood done. I have a bag of peat moss a bag of sand and gravel phosban reactor(for carbon) co2 reactor and a few plants floating in another tank. I just might go a head and set it up tomorrow and use shop lights in the mean time. Is there anything else I may be missing?


I think you got pretty much everything you need.

Hopefully the tank is in the final position in your house. Moving a setup tank is a real pain.

Skip the co2 and rodi. Just setup the tank with the plants and shop lights and let it set a week. You might be amazed at how easy this is. Of course you need the fast growing (anacharis and vals) and slow growing plants as I have stated many times before.


And use the layering trick on the substrate. Wish I had many years ago. I would have avoided many tanks with cloudiness the first few days.


my .02


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

beaslbob said:


> I think you got pretty much everything you need.
> 
> Hopefully the tank is in the final position in your house. Moving a setup tank is a real pain.
> 
> ...


As always thank you my friend. I don't even give my dogs the tap water around here it's badddddd...And it is in the spot it's going to stay. I was going to add a canister, but I want to see how the reactor with carbon in it does first.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> With RO water, depending on your plants, you will have to dose some kind of ferts as all the nutrients are removed during the process. If your not comfortable with dry fertilizers as yet, you can look at using Seachems line of products. But that is a little more on expensive side. I would recommend starting out with a PMDD pre mix and then gradually switching to EI dosing. If you are interested in dry ferts, check out AquariumFertilizer.com.
> 
> Shop lights are a good/cheap alternative. I use them on most of my tanks.
> 
> Sounds like you're good to go.


 So I will need a fertilizers other then the peat moss?


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

One thing I haven't asked yet is what should the temp be and how long of a light cycle should I have for a healthy tank? And once I find the camera I'll take some pics of what I have so far.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

I would say temp range could be ideally anywhere from say 72-78. I always keep mine on the upper end though. Seems that my fishy friends are more active at that point.

As for the photo period, 10hrs is a nice mark.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

you can use fertilizers,but at the same time keep in mind that adding fertilizers in an aquarium can many a times cause death of a fish...be aware of that fact...


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

spawn said:


> you can use fertilizers,but at the same time keep in mind that adding fertilizers in an aquarium can many a times cause death of a fish...be aware of that fact...


Thanks I'll keep that in mind.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I would say temp range could be ideally anywhere from say 72-78. I always keep mine on the upper end though. Seems that my fishy friends are more active at that point.
> 
> As for the photo period, 10hrs is a nice mark.


Thanks I'll get some pics up soon.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I just posted my DIY CO2 method.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> DIY CO2 Made Easy


James my friend I'm still missing something here...I have the tank all set up and so far so good. I have the reactor all set up.My question is do I just put clear water in the small bottle? or is it a mix that I'm missing?


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

Yes the second bottle is being used as a bubble counter I believe. You just have to to monitor how much CO2 you are putting into the tank so you can get a rough idea on when you refill your CO2


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I just added some "flourish" by seachem and now my fish are acting very funny no swimming just kinda laying on the bottom. I didn't add anything thing else should I do a water change? They where fine yesterday. To me they are just gold fish but they mean a lot to my wife. And if I did something to harm them I may be spending the night on the sofa.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't use ferts, but if all you did was add the ferts, I would think a water change would be the best. Did you add it in accordance to the label? Next time you might want to add it slower to see how it will effect your tank.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

squirrelcrusher said:


> I don't use ferts, but if all you did was add the ferts, I would think a water change would be the best. Did you add it in accordance to the label? Next time you might want to add it slower to see how it will effect your tank.


I did about a 30% water change just now and they were up and moving. I think I just wanted it all to happen to fast. I have to say doing a water change in a fresh water tank is a breeze compared to a saltwater tank. Thanks for getting right back to me.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

That's why I am afraid to try my hand at salt water. It seems like it would be harder/more time consuming.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

squirrelcrusher said:


> That's why I am afraid to try my hand at salt water. It seems like it would be harder/more time consuming.


 It's is time consuming in the begining, but like everthing else you get out of it what you put into it. With a good start it will be up and running in no time. Please let me know if you decide to take that leap. I have a lot of information that would make that treck a lot easier.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

If I do end up trying salt water, and I do because the fish are beautiful, it won't be for awhile. The whole being 24 and living with my parents puts a damper on alot of things including adding more fish tanks. Must finish college and get a job first


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

The second bottle (gas separator bottle) is just filled with regular water.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I just looked at the tank and it a little cloudy not much but it's there I have carbon in the filter and I setting up the o2 now. There are about 6 or 7 plants and out of one I have a little yellowing in some leaves I do not have a green thumb out of the water so I guess I can make this work well I hoping anyway. So how much water in the secound bottle maybe half full?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Doesn't matter really. As long as the water level is higher than the end of the tubing. I usually fill to about 3/4.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

t seems there is way to much of available nutrients, which arent being used at a quicker rate. Therefore the excess nutrients are causing some algae build up, in your tank as well on your plant leaves.

But when i first got Anubias, the 2-3 leaves did ended up yellow or even deteriorate for a bit. But soon after 2-3 weeks new leaves started to grow out....


Also if you are interested in learning about growing aquatic plants, the more you learn the better grasp you will have on them. And there are great resources online, plus the abundant knowledge that is available on this forum.


You have ample light for Anubias and probably more than enough fertilizer unless you have some good nutrient hogs in there. With no CO2, you could lower the light intensity by raising you light a bit which can help with the algae. (You may also consider adjusting your photoperiod.

since this plant is a slow grower, you can easily be dealing with a chronic state of nutrient deficiency (seems to be low iron chlorosis for the yellowing, magnesium is also possible but id agree its Fe) and these ferts you are dosing may not have time to correct it for that round of growth you are seeing. matter of fact I can't recall one single time in ten years that a cholorotic leaf ever corrected itself, it's always the next round you have to check, so expect that leaf to get worse even if you correct your nutrient issue.

Id look more to your new shoots and make sure they are normal, if so just prune these when they get ready. a little algae isn't terrible, unless your tank is years old I'd consider it normal as it's still balancing relative to what you keep in it and how you feed and clean it. steady states take a while.

also, even though you listed faster growing plants the amount you'd have to have relative to your bioloading and fert addition would have to be astounding to uptake all that business. In other words, even your fast growers aren't dense enough to really scrub the system for you, although they are still fast growing. you should step up water changes imo for a while and use a low dose sustrate fert pellet to keep ferts out of the water column, not the heavy phosphorous ones be sure and check the lable to make sure these major nutrients and balanced by micro ones as well. There are some pellet fertilizers for tanks that are just phos, potassium and nitrate and those are algae farms although they will sprout the heck out of your plants. You can also cheat 99% of this process by using an oversized UV light although most will recommend a natural approach. When I put one onmy tank it corrected the problem for me, -then- i learned the natural approach and used it on other tanks.


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## Sweet Tee (Nov 24, 2009)

Great post spawn...I took benefit from it as well.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

spawn said:


> t seems there is way to much of available nutrients, which arent being used at a quicker rate. Therefore the excess nutrients are causing some algae build up, in your tank as well on your plant leaves.
> 
> But when i first got Anubias, the 2-3 leaves did ended up yellow or even deteriorate for a bit. But soon after 2-3 weeks new leaves started to grow out....
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post...It's not a algae problem in fact it may even be to soon for algae to form it only been running a few days. I think the 
cloudy water may have just come from things getting settled in it's not all the way clear yet but it's more clear now. I did add co2 this evening. I will change out some water tomorrow to take more of the ferts out. I think I just added it to soon.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I just posted my DIY CO2 method.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> DIY CO2 Made Easy


You may want to look this over a little and do a little tweeking to make it more clear. I had a few problem understanding a few things like the second bottle and it's not listed when to or where to add the baking soda. I have it up and running now. Thanks for this post as-well


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> Doesn't matter really. As long as the water level is higher than the end of the tubing. I usually fill to about 3/4.


I have a question. First bottle is where the gas is made the tube from the first bottle is about 1" from the lid. In the second bottle the tube coming from the gas bottle is not under water, but the tubing coming out of the 2nd bottle into the tank is under water.....My question is..........is this the way it is suppose to be? The water from the 2nd bottle is being transfered into the tank and that makes the tank water level rise and I have to keep putting water into the 2nd bottle.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

I believe you have it backwards. The tube from bottle 1 to bottle 2 should be underwater so that you can count the bubbles. Then the tube leaving bottle 2 should be about the water line so that the pressurized gas can flow into the tank.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

Here is a pic that should help. Google "diy co2 aquarium" images. A really good DIY CO2 pic came up but it was in the wrong format to post on here.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

nice post...


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> You may want to look this over a little and do a little tweeking to make it more clear. I had a few problem understanding a few things like the second bottle and it's not listed when to or where to add the baking soda. I have it up and running now. Thanks for this post as-well


I can do that...curious...what wasn't clear on the seperator bottle? Definately don't want to confuse anyone. I did find where it was not mentioned to fill the seperator bottle with water. I just modifed the DIY thread to reflect that. Thanks.

As for the baking soda, it is in there in Step III - #7.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

trouble93 said:


> I have a question. First bottle is where the gas is made the tube from the first bottle is about 1" from the lid. In the second bottle the tube coming from the gas bottle is not under water, but the tubing coming out of the 2nd bottle into the tank is under water.....My question is..........is this the way it is suppose to be? The water from the 2nd bottle is being transfered into the tank and that makes the tank water level rise and I have to keep putting water into the 2nd bottle.



You're tubes are not right.

- The tube in the gas bottle should be sticking out ~ 1/4" in the cap.
- The tube from the gas bottle to the seperator bottle should be long enough to create a curve in the seperator bottle. The curved end should be under water
- The tube from the seperator bottle to the tank should be sticking out ~ 1/4" in the cap. This tube should be long enough ( ~ 2' ) to be able to adjust the diffuser anywhere in the tank.

Read over the DIY again and examine the pics as well. Hope that didn't sound mean. If there is anything in there that is confusing, please let me know so I can clean it up. It is meant to be easy for all to use.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> I can do that...curious...what wasn't clear on the seperator bottle? Definately don't want to confuse anyone. I did find where it was not mentioned to fill the seperator bottle with water. I just modifed the DIY thread to reflect that. Thanks.
> 
> As for the baking soda, it is in there in Step III - #7.


I printed it out and the baking soda part was on my 3rd page so that was my bad...And I'm glad you added how the tubing goes in the second bottle. I'm going to redo the tubing all the way around. As alway thank-you this has been a nice experience.

ps add a pic or 2 looking straight into the side of the bottle.. most are just from the top, that way can see the placement of the tubes.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Here's a picture of one of my setups:



Here's the diffusers I use:


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks I have it up and running now. This is what I have so far, I'm still waiting on the hood. And I still have a few thing to add yet.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

James0816 said:


> Here's a picture of one of my setups:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the diffusers I use:


I was looking to add a diffusers like this in the next day or two.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

How is the tank going? I just read through most of the posts and I am not sure what all you settled on (gravel, lights, plants) but wanted to chime in with a few things that may help.

Lighting: You are using T5 in a 20g. These are high output, hig penetration lights 1 28w bulb will be enough for awhile. Perhaps when your tank is really growing can you add a second bulb. The 6700k bulb is slightly yellowish in tint and is the wavelength most plants like. A 10,000k bulb is usually full spectrum pure white and will work just fine for plants.

Gravel: Probably too late, but if you are going with high lights and CO2 I would recommend some clay-like substrates such as flourite, eco-complete...etc. Rinse these out well so you don't have too much mineral leeching into the water. Peat will drop the pH of the water and is unnessary for most fish, especially if you are adding CO2 that will drop the pH even more.

Your cloudiness: Unless it is green, is probably a bacteria bloom, not algae bloom, but it could also be nutrients/clay particles if you used one of the above substrate.

DiY CO2: Keep an eye out on your pH for a couple of days. See what it is prior to adding it to the tank and see what it drops down to in your tank. You can adjust the bubble rate a bit by sinking the bubbler lower into your tank (more water pressure). You can also fine tune it by adding or subtracting more bottles, bottle size, more/less sugar...etc. If you do not have a high enough kH and GH you may see bigger fluctuations in the pH. RO/DI water is too pure, I would mix it 50/50 with your tap or you will have to add GH booster, pH buffers, on top of your plant nutrients.

At night you may want to turn on an airstone if you do not have a lot of surface tension. Plants flip flop at night and give off CO2 while taking in oxygen. You want to make sure your tank has enough oxygen via aeration and gassing off CO2 via some surface tension.

Lastly, I noticed you are trying to have a planted tank with goldfish? These fish may start eating some of your plants and that pleco may get to big and start uprooting some of your plants as well.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I will be using T5 ho bulbs but I'm waiting for my hood to get finished. So right now I'm using about 30watts of light. On the bottom I have a thin layer of peat moss a thin layer of sand and gravel on top of that. The air stone for the co2 right now is on the bottom of the tank. I just ordered a glass diffuser and when I add that, it will be right next to the intake of my canister filter. I do have a bubble wand under the sand so there is always oxygen being added as-well. I have not tested for Gh/Kh yet but I do have a test kit and PH at last test was 7.2. And as far as the gold fish and the pleco goes they are a must keep. If it wasn't for them my wife wouldn't have given me the go ahead to redo her tank. All and all tank's is doing well no cloudiness no algae and for the most part the pleco stays out of the planted area and have not seen the gold fish nipping at all. I will be using ro water because I don't trust our city water around here. One plant has some yellowing on some of the leaves do to some mishaps in the beginning, but everything else is nice and green.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

What is the pH of the water before adding it to the tank? You have to know how much the pH changes with each water change. This is what will affect the fish. For instance I add water that is at pH 7.0-7.2, the CO2 drops that pH down to around 6.5 or lower daily. My CO2 is off at night, but yours will be constantly on, so you want to watch that it does not drop too much.

If you are using just RO/DI water then your hardness is probably around ~1-2, which is low.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Dmaaaaax said:


> What is the pH of the water before adding it to the tank? You have to know how much the pH changes with each water change. This is what will affect the fish. For instance I add water that is at pH 7.0-7.2, the CO2 drops that pH down to around 6.5 or lower daily. My CO2 is off at night, but yours will be constantly on, so you want to watch that it does not drop too much.
> 
> If you are using just RO/DI water then your hardness is probably around ~1-2, which is low.


I'll test my water before I do a water change.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

I finely finished the hood


Its funny the gold fish haven't touched the plants at all not to say they won't but so far so good. I jacked the lights up this high because there are 2x10k's and there's egg create on the top to cut some of the light out. I didn't know a fresh water tank could be so clear. So far I have no algae growth from the lights and I've had them on there for more then a week. So I guess it's time to add more plants. I have to say I went on and put these lights on because in the back of my mind, if it didn't work out with the planted tank it would have given me a reason to start another reef tank.


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