# 75 gallon FW CA/SA cichlid tank



## zwanged

I inherited a 75 gallon Oceanic aquarium with built-in overflow from my father. It was built around 1995-1997 I think, probably about 15 years old. It had been sitting in my storage shed for a little over a year. I'm hoping the thermal fluctuations did not damage the structural integrity of the silicone. Preliminarily it seems that the silicone is in good shape and I leak-tested it in the garage. So far so good.

Initially the cabinet was a bit horrendous looking and my wife wouldn't let me keep the light stain. The doors were cracked and needed repair. I glued / clamped them with wood glue and that seems to have fixed them. Used wood filler to fill in any gaps that remained.

Stripping/sanding/staining/refinishing was very time consuming as this was only my second time doing such a project. Took me 2 weekends + pretty much every weeknight. There was just an incredible amount of surface area to cover...the canopy was a giant pain...Used Minwax water-based stain + prestain + 2 coats of rub-on polyurethane.

Before (tank in the shed)



After (tank now in the house)




Now working on setting up sump. This is how I found it (I never used this before). 



Now trying to figure out the media I want to use.

Current setup:
Top shelf: plastic drip tray with nothing on top
Middle shelf: Spiral cloth thing (forgot the term)
Bottom Shelf: Volcanic Rock (lava rock) on top of fine metal screen

It has an EHEIM 1060 pump which can do 37 liter/hour (587 GPH). I'm thinking it should be more than adequate for my setup. The size of the sump is 20 gallons.

My plans for the sump:

Top shelf (above drip tray): Filter pad or filter floss (Open to suggestions here). Would prefer something I can just clean / swap out once every few weeks. 

Middle shelf: Ditch spiral tower thing, or just cut it up and put it or a filter pad on top of Fluval ceramic bio rings.

Bottom shelf: Ditch lava rock. Add Fluval ceramic rings? 

Is 2.5 pounds of ceramic rings sufficient or should I get more?

Current status: Waiting on getting all the plumbing parts to hook up the sump to the overflow box. Getting fresh gaskets for the bulkheads. Silicone on the tank seems to be in good shape despite the tank being 15 years old. Hoping it doesn't leak or my wife will punish me severely. 

Planning to get black background paper (Don't want to paint) so the fish stand out nicely. Will want to plant the tank prior to adding fish. Although some tell me the severum will destroy everything in sight..maybe some mix of real and plastic plants...

Centerpiece of the tank will be a large (15-24" ) piece of driftwood, still waiting for it to arrive...

My stocking plans -- planning to go the freshwater route:

1 red-spotted severum 
1 blue acara
1 firemouth
6 boesemani rainbows OR 1 gold nugget pleco. Which?? 

Comments/suggestions greatly appreciated!

-Zeke


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## phil_pl

this should be a great build! i love how the stand turned out great job!!


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## zwanged

Thanks! I'll keep posting updates as things fall into place.

-Zeke


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## phil_pl

Thought you might like these.
Marine Pure Ceramic Biomedia
I am going to be adding them in my sump.


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## zwanged

Hi,

How does this marinepure product compare to the fluval ceramic bio rings? Staying wet during power outage seems like a good feature. However seems a lot more expensive than the fluval ceramic bio media which is about $12/500g.

What should I use for mechanical filtration, i assume it should sit on top of the drip tray?

-Zeke


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## LTruex

*w2 Welcome Zwanged, You certainly have a nice start and can go any direction you wish (fresh of salt). Just pick and choose what suit your knowledge or it can become a painful venture...If you have high knowledge in salt and know the process your all set for it. but if your subject is live coral and frags you need a lot more equipment and very high understanding of water conditioning plus how good is your live fish store you purchase from and how far away. Just food for thought and you really do have the tank for it and your repair work is really nice. Larry


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## zwanged

Hi,

I don't know anything about doing saltwater...Going to stick with freshwater for now. But it's nice to know I have the flexibility to do saltwater later on should I decide to take the plunge.

-Zeke


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## LTruex

Yes you do have the right start, and the equipment you have is also great for fw setup including use of the sump...If you do have skimmer it don't work well on fw, but there are ways, just google foam fractionators though it required larger equipment diy. I will watch what your doing...good start. Larry


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## zwanged

I don't know what a surface skimmer exactly is. There's some teeth at the top of the overflow box but that's it. 

Am I going to have a lot of waste accumulate in the tank? I don't see how everything's going to get over that overflow box. I get the impression that I am going to need to do one of the following:

A) Do nothing and hope my future cichlids and pleco just dig and kick stuff up all the time and create enough flow of their own. Although I hear plecos like having a nice amount of water flow.

B) install a pair of powerheads to get more water flow across the low-mid regions of the tank. Is there any particular brand/model you would recommend? I'm not sure how much flow is too much for these fish in this 75 gallon tank. Maybe two 750GPH powerheads, one on each end? Is this too much for SA/CA cichlids? Maybe two of the Hydor Koralia 750GPH powerheads should be plenty?

C) do under-sand jets under my substrate (about 50 pounds of pool filter sand). I'm thinking about building my own undergravel jet system with PVC pipe and hooking it up to one of these guys:Amazon.com: Brand New Marineland Max-Jet 1200 Item #7280: Pet Supplies


Also to improve water circulation I was planning to do my own PVC spraybar across maybe half of the tank. how should I position it? 

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update: 

Made sure tank was sufficiently level on the tile floor, then filled with water (let half sit overnight), then filled the rest today. Set up plumbing for sump...vinyl tubing was horribly inflexible so I used corrugated plastic instead for some of it. Worked great! Put emergency shutoff valves under the bulkheads. Already saved me once when a hose popped loose (had forgotten to secure it). Pic here:



Sump setup:



Above intake to sump, have sponge on porous hose sitting above it to keep major debris out (see pic). Is this a bad idea? I don't see any scenarios where this would ever become blocked.




On top of drip tray:
Using cut up cloth felt-like material as mechanical prefilter.

On middle and bottom shelves of sump: ceramic rings 1000g on the middle shelf and 1500g on the bottom shelf. Is it worth buying more? See pic.

Cleaned 50 pounds of pool filter sand which cost about $10. Apparently didn't clean it well enough as the water was cloudy afterward, but after a 95% water change things cleared up nicely.

Made 2ft homemade PVC pipe spraybar to distribute flow across the left half of the tank. Seeing a LOT of micro-bubbles on the left side of the tank. Will this be OK for my future fish in this FW setup? See pic below.



And the big picture here:



with canopy:




More updates to follow...going to add a 4 foot piece of driftwood. + some plants....so my future cichlids have something to destroy.


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## LTruex

I will try to help with what I can make out of your equipment and interpret what you may say...for I didn't say a surface skimmer...I was trying to get you to go online and start looking up your equipment and start by looking at a fresh water type of protien skimmer called a foam fractionator...but more for freshwater. You have in the tank an overflow box as you call it...its a weir, and designed as a safety shut off in the event of a power failure...suggest your look this design up, for it requires you leave enough room in your sump to accomidate that volume of water or what is to much will overflow on your perhaps carpeted floor. In your sump is a wet dry design to add bio balls and such into, your heater, air, supply, and I cannot really gather what else may be there. You really should understand all that you have for most of this equipment may not be familar to freshwater persons...it is very understandable to those of the salt water aquarist persons. If you don't set your system up right...it may work, but on the first power outtage you could have a lot of water on your floor, and your wet dry sump may not function to its potencial. You do have a great start and it the entire system can be used for freshwater, but if you don't understand what you have and don't setup the system correct it real potencial will be lost. If you have an neighbor that is into salt water introduce your self and ask for advise....after he wipes the druel from his face. I will try to help all I can but take lots of pictures of everything you and get onto the salt water forums of this site...you need help man. Larry


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## zwanged

Hi,

I did leave sufficient room in the sump for the volume of the overflow box to drain into it.

The sump is 20 gallons and the overflow box is 5 gallons. So to be safe and to give myself some safety margin, I make sure I fill the sump only half-way.

I do think i'm going to need additional water circulation in the tank....as I don't see how the waste is going to be kicked up above the overflow otherwise.

Should the ceramic media on the sump be submerged? Right now the middle shelf is partially submerged and the bottom shelf is fully submerged.


-Zeke


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## coralbandit

system seems to be running well.The hydors would be a good addition to help keep debris from settling on sand(sand doesn't let as much stuff settle IN most just settles ON).I noticed your "tower" in filter is completey seperated from sump(20g tank).If you want you could elavate the tower a little higher and have less always wet(more wet/dry).Bubbles in the beginning are normal , but if they're comming from spray bar you may want to do something about that.Cut to fit in top drip drawer will work well and needs to cleaned regulary.I've experimented(1 1/2 years) with Larrys' idea of Protien skimmer(aka foam fractioner) on freshwater and without the addition of ozone ,they do very little to help water quality (they're intended for salt water,but have been used{with ozone} on fresh and are rather expensive for quality).I didn't look up your sand jet idea,but feel the hydors to be a more practical and proven method.With the addition of circulation(hydors) you could remove srpay bar as returned water would be mixed throughout system better.I believe we touched on how to use your sump correctly,but didn't see your max fill line marked on sump(better safe than sorry).Stand came out awesome and everything seems to be working well.You're well on your way.Keep asking ? but seems like you're doing well.


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## LTruex

Zwanged, there are people to follow different concepts as you will learn after being here a short time...at least look into foam fractionator as used in koi ponds and they don't require an ozone device, and they do work, but are large scale...the smaller the scale the less it works...but you may find use for it in your pursuit of this hobby. I do agree that fractionators work best in saltwater and on a smaller scale, but it's not correct to say they don't work in freshwater. Larry


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## jrman83

IMO, no need to add something that is not needed.

If you matched your pump, to include length of return hose, to the intake of the overflow you started out right. I don't like spraybars on wet/drys too much, but as long as the holes in the bar act as a way to break the natural siphon back into the sump in a power outage, you're good. I know you mention check valves, but didn't really look where you may have had them. 

The single biggest thing you can do now is to test your setup by killing power and see how it all works. Do it multiple times to make sure it consistently performs in the same manner. The first one I setup I couldn't even sleep until I had done this.

Nice looking setup.


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## zwanged

Hi jrman83,

Sorry, I misspoke. I meant I put in *emergency shutoff* valves, NOT check valves. Was late when I posted, just corrected my post 

The PVC spraybar is slightly angled downward from the overflow so yes the holes higher up (closer to the overflow) should break the siphon. Are you saying that the PVC spraybar is totally unnecessary? I just wanted to break up the flow a bit near the surface so it wasn't a single huge jet going out of the return. Although it's not THAT huge, the EHEIM return jet only goes out 5/8" hose not 3/4".

The spraybar does seem suboptimal upon further reflection. It seems it would be inefficient to have flow located so close to the overflow as that's just going to backwash into the overflow right away. Replaced the spraybar with a jet thing I had lying around...what do you call these??

The underside of the elbow is drilled with a small hole to break the siphon, I will test this to be sure.



I'll be sure to test the setup multiple times. 

Adding driftwood + other decor also is going to raise the water level, so I will keep that in mind.


-Zeke


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## phil_pl

zwanged said:


> Hi,
> 
> How does this marinepure product compare to the fluval ceramic bio rings? Staying wet during power outage seems like a good feature. However seems a lot more expensive than the fluval ceramic bio media which is about $12/500g.
> 
> What should I use for mechanical filtration, i assume it should sit on top of the drip tray?
> 
> -Zeke


I haven't compared them directly. I want them because of the surface area comparison to bio balls, and I think they are the most efficient use of space as far as for growing beneficial bacteria


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## zwanged

Ok I will keep that in mind, thank you!

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Tank is starting to take shape.



Finally got my first fish for the tank: a male firemouth. 



Added prime, then bacteria (SafeStart) to the tank before adding him.

He didn't seem to pay much attention to the food I tried to give him, think he's still settling in...now hiding under the driftwood + heater...

Also added in some Brazilian Pennywort. 

Finally, something to look at, other than glass wood and sand 

-Zeke


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## Brian757

Very cool! It looks great! I also like the darker stain finish much better. It clashes with your substrate and thus, looks good. It will also make your fish stand out. 

Since you have a Firemouth, you can start getting South American cichlids and have a blast!


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## zwanged

Yeah, I was planning to do blue acara + severum (either red-spotted gold severum or rotkeil or gold -- not sure yet) + gold nugget pleco (L177)

Do you think I'm making a big mistake by not trying to do pairs of fish? Just sounds like a lot more work, but the parental behaviors sound interesting.

-Zeke


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## Brian757

zwanged said:


> Yeah, I was planning to do blue acara + severum (either red-spotted gold severum or rotkeil or gold -- not sure yet) + gold nugget pleco (L177)
> 
> Do you think I'm making a big mistake by not trying to do pairs of fish? Just sounds like a lot more work, but the parental behaviors sound interesting.
> 
> -Zeke


No, not really. I have pairs for Green Severums, Bolivian Rams and HAD pairs for the Pearl Cichlids. I had to get rid of the pair for the pearls because it was actually two females. They fought all the time. With the severums, I have two males and they lock lips occasionally and fight  also, the green severums, I am not quite sure of their sexes but they fight occasionally too. Its not bad as they just poke each other and lock lips. But yes, while breeding, a pair can become very territorial and situations can get bad in a tank. Your taking the safer route..


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## zwanged

UPDATE:

Added a gorgeous red-spotted severum (smaller than the firemouth) and a very energetic blue acara (larger than the firemouth). Was a bit worried about the severum last night as he had barely acclimated at the fish store before I took him home and was looking kind of wobbly and weak -- at times I almost was afraid he was dead -- but he's looking much better today and actually swimming around. Will see if he has an appetite tonight. Being careful now not to over-feed.

Everyone seems to be getting along well so far. 

Will monitor ammonia levels twice a day and do necessary water changes to keep ammonia level < 1ppm. Right now it's 0.5ppm. Hope I'm not damaging the fish too much by cycling 'fish in'. I added SafeStart at the same time that I added the firemouth.

Pictures to follow on Thursday. 

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:


Added Java fern + hornwart this evening. All the fish seem a lot more comfortable with the plants, especially the severum who hides in them a lot. Ammonia levels still at 0.5ppm but I suspect they may hit 1.0 tomorrow. pH is a bit high, 7.4. Hoping the driftwood will help drop that. If not pH should go down a bit when I do a water change. I think the pH is getting more basic because of the low levels of ammonia...my tap water is typically 7.0.

I'm prepping an emergency tank (29gallon) with clean heated, dechlorinated water in anticipation of an imminent water change. Is it worth adding Prime anyway even though the chlorine should leave, especially with a HOB filter and bubbler running on this emergency tank?


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## zwanged

Still waiting on 1 more piece of driftwood that I'm soaking...it should be ready by tonight. Severum seems a lot happier with all the new plants. Likes hiding in them. 

Tank:



Red-spotted severum (~2")



Blue Acara (~3-3.5")



Firemouth (~2.5-3") -- didn't have time to get a good picture, here's him hiding...



Have my fluorescent light set up on a timer to run 7 hours a day. Since the tank gets very little if any sunlight it seems like I'll want to keep the plants happy. Also once I get algal growth in like a month or two I'm hoping to add a gold nugget pleco (L177) to take care of that. 

Would you do a school of buenos aires tetras or something instead of a gold nugget pleco? My wife likes the gold nugget because it looks fashionable...help!  Oh and they are very cute when they are small...

So far all the fish seem to be getting along well. The firemouth seems to now keep his distance from the blue acara and the blue acara seems to be dominant over the firemouth.

I'm cycling the tank with bacteria and these fish and keeping a very close eye on the ammonia levels. it's maybe 0.75ppm right now. Has been about 0.5ppm the last 2 days. Will do water change once it hits or exceeds 1ppm. Have 29 gallons of prepped water ready to go in my spare oceanic cube.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Added another piece of driftwood -- which is unfortunately floating and not sinking, so I decided to wedge it between the top central beam between the front and the back and the overflow. 



The new driftwood is diffusing the flow out of the sump return substantially and I'm pretty sure there's not enough flow across the substrate and throughout the tank now....

I'm concerned that debris is just going to get caught on the bottom so I ordered a Koralia 750 powerhead. That plus the 480GPH of my sump should provide plenty of water circulation and help keep debris off the bottom. hopefully it works but doesn't blow the fish around too badly either.
-Zeke


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## zwanged

Btw the severum eat the spectrum pellets like a pig....and is not eating the peas I cut up. Maybe because his mouth is too small. Meanwhile, the blue acara swallows the half peas WHOLE  Should be interesting to see how the growth rates of the fish compare...

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Probably was a piece of debris or something. I am cycling the tank 'fish in' so it's very hard to get a picture of the dorsal fin as he's clamping it a decent amount of the time. Might well be the stress of the cycling. Ammonia levels are very close to 1ppm now.

He does have a small chunk bitten out of the back of his dorsal fin...probably the blue acara. 

Here's another pic.



-Zeke


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## zwanged

Added Koralia Evolution 750GPH powerhead to improve water circulation in the tank. Seems like it's pretty good at what it does, thinknig about possibly adding a second or a smaller Koralia Nano (425GPH) on the left side. Here's the picture with the Koralia evolution in the top right-hand corner:




And zoomed out, so you can see the scale of the koralia on a 75 gallon tank:



If I add another 750 on the other side, will that be overkill? If so, what about a 425 nano? Total water circulation in the tank:

Eheim1060 pump (sump return pump): ~480GPH at 3.5 feet of ilft
+ Koralia evolution 750GPH
--------------------------------------------
1230 GPH

1230 GPH is 16.4x turnover per hour, I'm not sure if I should do any more water circulation with these fish, thoughts?

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:

My really old lighting strip was too tall to fit under the canopy I spent a crapload of time refinishing and was falling apart so I went out and got a Deep Blue Solarmax T5HO with dual T5s. Also has 8 blue LEDs which don't sound particularly useful to me. The fixture came with one 10k bulb and one actinic bulb.

I replaced the actinic bulb with a 6700 bulb as the actinic bulb is not useful for aquarium plants. If it turns out to be way too much light and I get major algae issues then I will switch back to the actinic bulb. Or hope that my future gold nugget pleco (L177) is very very hungry 

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:

After talking to several very helpful people here about lighting I think I am going to either stick with this fixture, doing a single 54W bulb, or return it for a 2 x 28W fixture and save myself $50. The lighting is going to turn the tank into a giant algae factory if I do two 54W T5 bulbs.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

cycling summary:

days 1-7
ammonia gradually ramps up to 1ppm
day 8 
ammonia 0.5ppm, nitrite 0.25ppm
day 9 (Tuesday)
ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 0.5ppm

seems like the cycle with TSS is moving along...saw a small spot or two on the severums tail...I'm guessing it's the stress of the suboptimal water conditions. hope the nitrite gets processed into nitrate soon.

Zeke


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## Brian757

What are you doing to reach optimal water parameters?
Your not too bad but any ammonia is bad. You might want to try doing partial(20%) water changes to eliminate your ammonia/nitrite problems.


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## zwanged

The safetstart instructions as well as what I'm reading online say to not do any water changes for the first 2 weeks as that will slow down the cycling a lot and could be counterproductive. Not quite there yet.

The cycling is going about as best as can be expected with SafeStart. Nitrite is actually more toxic to the fish than ammonia, so I hope that that the nitrite starts getting turned into nitrate soon. Ammonia levels seem to be dropping which is good. I'm hoping the nitrite will drop off in the next day or two. Will test again tonight to see where levels are at. Fish still seem pretty energetic.


-Zeke


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## Brian757

Well thats good to hear. I have never used anything from Tetra but it sounds like its coming along! Good luck!


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## zwanged

Tuesday night (day 10) update:

Finally starting to detect nitrate:

Ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 0.5ppm, nitrate 5ppm.

The pH has dropped over the past week from about 7.2 to 6.4...I'm guessing this is due to the tannins of the driftwood...Hoping the cycle finishes soon so that I can do a partial water change. My tap water is around a pH of 7.

The blue acara and firemouth look fine, severum seems to be doing the worst -- has some damage to his fins and a few spots on fins...probably due to the combination of the stress of ammonia + nitrite + bullying of the substantially larger blue acara. Hope he pulls through OK. Still is moving around quite a bit and feeding at least.

Wednesday morning (day 12):
Ammonia < 0.25ppm, nitrite 0.25ppm, nitrate between 5-10ppm. Didn't check pH.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:

Good news: Tank cycling finished wednesday evening. I introduced three 2.5" boesemani rainbows (who are starting to show their color) on Thursday. They seem to help reduce the blue acara's aggression on the severum.

Now for the bad news: I noticed the severum (who wasn't doing so well before) definitely has ich on Friday. Saw a few salt-grain white spots on his fins and body. 

Decided to raise the tank temperature to 86 degrees for 10 days to kill ich. All these fish are tropical fish and should be able to tolerate these temperatures. Hope everyone pulls through...Planning on doing daily partial 25% water changes to help remove any free-floating ich and keep the water quality high. Not planning on doing salt as I think it will be bad for my aquarium plants and I feel like it is not absolutely necessary. To help compensate for lower levels of dissolved oxygen at higher temperatures, I angled the powerhead at the top of the tank upward toward the surface to increase surface agitation and therefore gas exchange. I also adjusted the output of the return to agitate the surface more as well.

Does this sound reasonable?

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

salt is not even a guarenteed cure.Rid ich plus(kordon) works best.High temps help(reduce the life cycle) but are not a guarenteed cure either.As for water changes ,there will be NO free floating ich;when the ich burst through the fishes skin and leaves it's host they fall to gravel= vacumm gravel thoroughly.While in the gravel it take aprox.3 days before 1 cyst turns into as many as 1000-3000 new little ichs searching for a host to infect.Ich can be cured easily(as few as 7-10 days) if dealt with immediately,left to get a hold in your tank it could take weeks to eliminate and probably some losses.


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## zwanged

Hi coralbandit,

Thanks for the advice. 

On this particular site I'm reading that I should be able to get rid of ich with high temperature alone, unless I happen to have a rare nasty high temperature-resistant strain.

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

That said, I will look into that product you mentioned...You sure it won't screw up my newly established biological filtration? Most meds seem like pretty nasty stuff. I feel like I would prefer aquarium salt over that...Or just sticking with pure heat at temp of 86-87.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

No med is 100% safe for plants or filters.That being said the kordon has not caused problems(anywhere near the proportion of ick) with my stuff.Heat does help,cure I'm not sure.Salt helps also;read more links on both to hear pros and cons.Kordon makes a "herbal" or some other formula of ich med(listed in ich post) possibly it was listed as safe for inverts,either way different medicines in formula .Vacumm the substrate thoroughly every day while your trying to kill ick,and read up on the ick cycle so you know what your looking for and understand how it can look like it gone,but not be(3-4 days in gravel before infecting again).When it leaves the fish is the only time you can kill it so pay close attention(meds or whatever will not affect it while it is on fish{it's under the skin})and even the meds kill it only when it falls off.86 should work on shortening the life cycle.


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## zwanged

Help...

I'm pretty sure the whiteish elongated 'spot' about 2mm on the blue acara's dorsal fin is some sort of parasite... seems too small to be fish lice? Some other type of parasite? It's rectangular in shape... How do I get rid of this? I'd rather not have to remove him from the tank to do it, if I can treat the tank that would be preferred...but don't want to wipe out my biological filtration.

The blue acara also has developed a larger 1-2mm round lump at the base of his left pectoral fin. Very hard to get a picture of this...Any idea what this might be? It seems a lot bigger than the tiny ich spots on the severum so I'm not so sure it's ich. It kind of came out of nowhere...the lump looks firm not cottony.

He's occasionally rubbing against the sand on the bottom of the tank -- flashing. Probably irritated by this and/or the ich problem that is likely infesting the tank.

The problems just keep on coming...but anyway, my #1 priority is dealing with the ich first as that seems to be the most serious problem. Will ask my LFS guy tomorrow for suggestions.

At least all the tank inhabitants are energetic and eating. Severum is gobbling up the hornwort nonstop 

Thanks,
-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Often by the time a disease is "truely diagnosed" the health of fish has become so stressed that "secondary" infections also begin to show.Often treatment of the initial issue will alieviate all.Either way treating the intial issue ,as you said is always the best path to start on.Good luck.


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## zwanged

Thanks,

I decided to treat the tank with quick cure for a few days. Keeping temperature up at 86-87 in addition. I'm hopeful that things should start turning around soon.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Ich seems to be gone as of like tuesday of this week so I'll start dropping the temperature from 86 down to 78-80 GRADUALLY (maybe 2F/day).

Changed the tank layout a bit, here's the latest picture:



Only


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## rtmaston

I had my 55 gallon sence 1997 and your cabinet and canopy is just like mine just the size difference.i really love mine.does your have selfs and a back in it?i would like to know if you can show some pictures of the inside of it and some pictures of just the canopy with and without the lids?is the inside of your canopy white mine is thanks.i cant wait to see the pictures.


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## zwanged

My canopy does a back but i have enough clearance for wires. the inside of the canopy was originally pretty light colored like the rest of the tank. I stained + finished the whole thing inside and out. Did the same for the interior of the cabinet below. Pain in the butt but I like consistency.

Part of the inside of the lid didn't take the stain very well but whatever 

Here are some pics. 









rtmaston said:


> I had my 55 gallon sence 1997 and your cabinet and canopy is just like mine just the size difference.i really love mine.does your have selfs and a back in it?i would like to know if you can show some pictures of the inside of it and some pictures of just the canopy with and without the lids?is the inside of your canopy white mine is thanks.i cant wait to see the pictures.


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## rtmaston

very nice tank.


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## zwanged

added 2 turquoise rainbows and 1 more male boesemani rainbow. Hopefully the rainbows will color up a bit more...in the store they look so much better. I'm pretty sure at least one of the boesemanis is a female so the males should theoretically color up for her. Now i'm just trying to see if I can get a hold of a L177 gold nugget pleco....might have to ask my LFS to order one.
-Zeke


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## DL Lawrence

Nice looking tank- enjoyed reading this thread. My next large FW build will use a sump- good reading on that stuff. Nice pieces of driftwood!


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## zwanged

DL Lawrence said:


> Nice looking tank- enjoyed reading this thread. My next large FW build will use a sump- good reading on that stuff. Nice pieces of driftwood!


Thanks! Keep me posted on how your next large FW build goes. 

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Yuck. I'm having bad luck here. New rainbows I added looked fine in the store but this morning had some white crusty stuff around their mouth. Looks different than Ich... Will ich meds 'quick cure (formalin + malachite green)' help at all? Tank temp is 82-83F right now.

Does this sound like columnaris? 

Here's a pic. It's a little white something sticking off of his lower lip.



I started treating with quick cure thinking it was initially ich but it seems different. Ugh. Maybe I'll discontinue the quick cure treatment, do a partial water change, and see if he just kicks it on his own? If it is columnaris or something fungal I should probably slowly drop the tank temp a bit as I hear that these types of infections (columnaris or fungal infections) get worse at higher temps.

My LFS recommended dosing the tank w/ aquarium salt...1 TBSP/5 gallons...thoughts? I probably over-reacted dosing the quick cure.


-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

Update:

I'm just returning the sick boesemani to the store for a healthier one...fortunately wasn't too hard to catch 

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Good call on diagnosis and even better to return.Columnaris needs antibiotics to cure and they will effect your biological filter and plants.The salt (recommended) is to help gill functions and help fish properly osmoregulate,not cure.Often healthy looking fish(in store) only need the stress of ;catch,bag,ship and different water to show something no-one wants to see.Hope the rest are well.The biggest risk to any of my tanks is a new fish.If I feel that a certain fish is what I must have, I will get everything else that I may have passed on before so as to minimise the exposure(even the healthy,special fish is as risky as the average).Close observation(which I applaud you for) is necessary.


----------



## zwanged

Yeah...I'm learning it's good to be flexible when dealing with new fish. Especially since the store had plenty more boesemanis that looked good. I'm just glad it wasn't too hard to catch the lethargic boesemani with the issue. It would've been a giant pain to take out all the decorations to catch him.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

Update:

Lost one of the rainbows this morning. Found it on the bottom of the tank. No obvious signs of disease or injury....This particular rainbow never had been particularly colorful. Wonder if it had a digestive blockage or something? Not sure what happened. This rainbow had been in the tank for about 2 weeks. Wonder if I bumped it when I was moving driftwood around yesterday (was removing that upper piece of driftwood as it's impractical and kept growing mold)...although that seems unlikely.

Oh well...

Other fish look fine to me + water parameters look fine. pH 6.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate < 5ppm. Had done a water change yesterday hence the low nitrates.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

Another boesemani rainbow was looking pale yesterday and died this morning. I think they are susceptible to a white fungus on their mouth which seems to kill them pretty easily. 

Oh well...

Went to the fish store today and got two synodontis nigriventis (upside-down catfish) for my tank. They are about 1.5-2" and should grow to 3-4". They are cute, i'll post a pic later. May add another 2 more if these do OK. Hopefully they won't get picked off by the cichlids. Might consider switching to something slightly bigger later (e.g., pictus catfish).

Added some large amazon swords to the tank. They really brighten up the tank. Will see if severum deems them edible  I'll post pics soon.

Also thinking about getting a female bristlenose pleco...but haven't decided yet.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

Update: Here's the new upside-down catfish I added and a picture of the tank with the new amazon swords. They really stand out! Can anyone confirm that this is synodontis nigriventis? My LFS store didn't know the species but said it would get to about 3-4 inches.





-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Does appear to be S.Nigriventis.The S.Eruptus looks similiar,but doesn't swim upside down so much.I had 3 Eruptus with my africans and they got to be about 6 inches.All reading says S.N. stays 3-4 ,but that will be a fat and tall 3-4" long fish.They're peaceful and have been bred in capativity,but specifics aren't available and sexing is diffacult.Groups of 3-6 are best they say.Cool fish!


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## zwanged

Yeah -- I was planning to get 2-4 more if they are compatible with my cichlids. They are fun to watch 

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Does appear to be S.Nigriventis.The S.Eruptus looks similiar,but doesn't swim upside down so much.I had 3 Eruptus with my africans and they got to be about 6 inches.All reading says S.N. stays 3-4 ,but that will be a fat and tall 3-4" long fish.They're peaceful and have been bred in capativity,but specifics aren't available and sexing is diffacult.Groups of 3-6 are best they say.Cool fish!


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## zwanged

Btw I'm pretty sure the white bump on the blue acara's dorsal fin and on his pectoral fins are 'lymphocystis'. A common acara virus that hopefully will go away (or at least go dormant) after some time if I maintain good water conditions + minimize stress in the tank.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Added 2 more upside-down catfish, 2 boesemani rainbowfish (to replace the ones that died), and an albino bristlenose pleco. I think I'm done adding fish to this tank, though may consider adding a second bristlenose pleco later. Seems like a great fish!

Just dosed the tank with flourish excel as I hadn't done anything for the plants beyond lighting.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:

Tank seems to be doing well. One of the rainbows still seems to be fighting off some sort of fungal infection. I don't want to medicate the tank for this as it will damage the biological filter. Will just wait and see if they kick it on their own...

Here's the latest tank pic, and another pic of the severum  Few minor nips on the severum's fins from the firemouth but not too bad. I hope he will soon outgrow the firemouth and will start to hold his own.





-Zeke


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## zwanged

Updates:

Replaced my Eheim 1060 with a Mag 9.5 pump which should be able to do about 800GPH at 3.5 feet of lift. Much beefier than my previous pump, which only did about 480GPH at 3.5 feet of lift. I think my filtration should work a lot better with the increased turnover. Removed the 750GPH powerhead as it seemed totally unnecessary at this point. I switched back to using a submerged spraybar on the output as the flow was just too intense. 

Added some dwarf saggitaria plants. Hoping they do well and start to carpet the bottom in a few places.

Put a light on my sump today and noticed the sump has a few snails. Are these pond snails? Shell seems to have some specks in it. Tried feeding one to my blue acara who grabbed it before it even hit the bottom. Free live food supply for occasional treats for my fish -- or bad idea?



I shoved a piece of plastic into the sump to partition off the return pump from the filtration box to make a refugium. Threw some plants that weren't doing well into there, will see how they do without my fish munching/yanking at them all the time.

Here's a picture of my refugium:



And finally, the latest tank layout...not sure if i want to try anchoring the java fern to the driftwood, kind of looks weird right now.



-Zeke


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## zwanged

Made a diagram of my primitive sump/refugium setup for those who are curious:


And the Durso standpipe I'm using in my overflow box:


-Zeke


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## zwanged

My rainbows still seem to have some sort of fungus and unfortunately it looks like it is spreading. Rather than medicating the entire 75gal (and risk damaging my biological filtration), I decided to move them to my 30gal and treated with Jungle Fungus Clear (which I think is essentially Methylene Blue). Will do this for a few days and then move them back if they look better.

This morning, I think I could literally see white stuff (dead fungus) floating on the surface in the hospital tank...so I think it is working! 

-Zeke


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## TroyVSC

Hope your fish improve.


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## coralbandit

Methylene blue is one of the safest dye based meds.That being said make sure you keep it up to "snuff"(full stregnth) to properly work.It is not safe for most plants however so don't favor your fish with any plants you care about in the hospital tank.It safely can be dosed at more than twice recommended stregnth in most cases, so better to use a little more than to little.It is so safe it is a recommended treatment for fish eggs and fry(I've used it with fry{and may end up trying it with the discus scenario that continues to puzzle me} ,and always have it on hand in my emergency kit).Good luck.


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## zwanged

damn it...one of the male bosemanis died last night. granted, he wasn't looking so hot even before medicating...I think the shock of moving him to the hospital tank pushed him over the edge. 

the female bosemani still is showing the white stuff in 2 spots...I guess ill check tonight...which will be the 48 hour mark. a full treatment period is 4 days.

should I keep medicating for another 2 days? my inclination is yes until that female heals.

my hospital tank is 30gal so at least waste should stay relatively dilute.

The turquoise rainbows seem a bit more robust than the boesemanis...

zeke


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## coralbandit

Even if not in directions of med,changing water and re dosing with fresh meds is never a bad thing.Methylene blue sorta disappears(absorbs) on its own so possibly even adding more meds to existing would be ok? Since there is no way to measure the level of MB watching the color is really where it is at.Keep it well colored,as this is only way to know it is still there.


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## zwanged

Got it. I'll do a 40% WC and dose more tonight. It does look less blue than it did iniitally. I did the standard dosage for the initial dosage.

Ingredients listed for Jungle Fungus Clear: Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, Potassium Dichromate. Presumably the methylene blue is a component of the furazolidone (3-{[(5-nitro-2-furyl)<b>methylene</b>]amino}-1,3-oxazolidin-2-one) ?

-- will high doses of these other ingredients cause problems?


-zeke



coralbandit said:


> Even if not in directions of med,changing water and re dosing with fresh meds is never a bad thing.Methylene blue sorta disappears(absorbs) on its own so possibly even adding more meds to existing would be ok? Since there is no way to measure the level of MB watching the color is really where it is at.Keep it well colored,as this is only way to know it is still there.


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## NewGuy5

Very nice tank! I also have a red spotted Severum too. It's a green one though. Very pretty fish!


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## zwanged

Blue acara is doing well...TOO WELL. starting to do too much damage. I separated him along with the firemouth to my 30gal tank in the basement. The next morning the firemouth had severe fin damage so i moved him back to the main 75gal tank. I then went ahead and returned the blue acara to the store. The employee there told me that this blue acara is wild caught and therefore may be more aggressive than the farmed varieties. 

I then went ahead and picked up a green severum. The store says it's a hybrid between a super-red and a wild green severum -- should be interesting to see how he turns out!

Here are some pics of the new green severum. Is it a female or too early to tell? I don't see any spots / zigzags on the nose. This severum is pretty small though -- not more than 2 inches. My other severum (the super-red severum) is more like 3". 







-Zeke


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## zwanged

The firemouth seems pretty colorful since I returned the blue acara to the store  He must be very happy to be the dominant fish in the 75gallon tank.



-Zeke


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## zwanged

Thanks! So yours is green with red spots? Is it a hybrid? 

-Zeke



NewGuy5 said:


> Very nice tank! I also have a red spotted Severum too. It's a green one though. Very pretty fish!


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## Raymond S.

I do realize I'm getting in on this late in the game but just joined this forum not long ago. I'm experimenting/w two bio media types at the moment. Well three actually but
two were already in my last set up and seemed to work great together. The Fluval Pre-filter I see you already use. What I have on top of that is Bio bale. They do well
in my tank. The new material I intend to pair/w the Bio bale is Matrix and as before it will be under the Bio bale in stead of the Fluval. Just though I'd let you know
as I like to try different kinds so you may get an urge one day.
Seachem Matrix Bio-Media Aquarium Filter Bio Media
Bio bale - TheFind
CPR BIO-BALE Biological Filter Media/Medium (White) - 1 gallon/35sf | F3Pets.com
Haven't had the time to read all of this thread yet but first time seeing a freshwater set up/w the sump filter and have always wondered about that.
Beautiful set up. Look forward to reading all of the thread soon.


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## coralbandit

More than a few here use sump type (wet dry )filters on FW.They are simply the best filter going as anyone who has used one would attest.
May I ask why you keep changing /or trying different bio media?
I run my 180 on a sump style with mechanicals and a sponge,basically 0(zero) bio media(I count the sponge as bio and rinse it accordingly) but feel that be it salt or fresh that all bio media eventually turn into nitrAte factories.
What size sump do you have and what size tank is it on.
Sorry for jumping in Zeke!


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## zwanged

No problem!

I'm actually using this random felt-like material as my prefilter in my sump that I found with the sump  Will probably switch to filter floss (polyfil) when this stuff needs to get replaced.

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> More than a few here use sump type (wet dry )filters on FW.They are simply the best filter going as anyone who has used one would attest.
> May I ask why you keep changing /or trying different bio media?
> I run my 180 on a sump style with mechanicals and a sponge,basically 0(zero) bio media(I count the sponge as bio and rinse it accordingly) but feel that be it salt or fresh that all bio media eventually turn into nitrAte factories.
> What size sump do you have and what size tank is it on.
> Sorry for jumping in Zeke!


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## Raymond S.

Call it an urge to be creative or perhaps a hobby within a hobby. The changing of the media I mean. I did this on my introduction to the forum but I guess I'll need to do it
again every now and then but...I think I like experimenting/w new designs almost if not more than just having the tanks. I build built-in bio filters. I have a double issue
reason for the size tanks I use. The place where I'm staying right now doesn't require a pet/damage deposit...unless you have a pet/aquarium more than 10 gallons.
Since I'm poor after expenses I choose not to give them $350 to be able to have larger tanks. These filters are permanent as is the new wall covering that I'm also
experimenting/w. When I get the filter to where I think it can no longer be improved practically, I will then get a large tank and put one in there. The first one was just basic
to see if... The second one was an attempt to enlarge the filter and conceal it. The results were inconclusive. I like it but it takes up too much of the tank.
Now back on the first tank making improvements to minor details of the filter and adding wall covering. Actually adding water now. Have added the substrate I chose
and will add a couple of the plants during fill. Taking my time/w fill. 12 hr work shift for three days Fri.-Sun.(today) but 5 P. M. appointment for Mon. also...little time now.
I should add this. No one goes in the lakes and rivers to clean the algae. It's "natural"...so I cultivate it, but try to balance it/w the plants. I know I swim upstream.
And I pay the price often...we'll see. I have lots of streams around that have little or no algae...but there are also some/w the rocks covered by beautiful green algae
flowing in the current. There will be a place that resembles that in my large tank. All the experimenting is leading up to that. I also think that if you make a "spot" in your 
tank where algae can thrive well do to near perfect conditions, that most or all of any other algae in the tank won't get enough nutrients to survive considering
that you also have plants competing for those nutrients. Here we go...up stream again...


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## coralbandit

I did read your intro and almost made built in "skimming filter" on my new 33 long.I ended up putting a breeding pair of koi angels in so all I needed was sponge filters.I have made many filters myself(all wet dry sump styles) and also enjoy the challenge of making something that has to perform a real"natural function".Have alos agree much like wood,algae is in all bodies of water ,but to what degree is the difference.Acceptance is the key,with understanding of what is possible.GOOD LUCK,I dig the gravel on the sides you do also,as there are no smooth,clean sides to lakes,rivers ,streams or even the ocean. all surfaces have some form of "substrate" right up to the surface.


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## zwanged

I bit the bullet and decided to add a second firemouth to my tank, with the intent that I will potentially upgrade to a larger tank in the future as needed. it was kind of difficult to determine whether the firemouth I got from the store was a female or just a stressed male. Here are some pictures! I'm hoping they will pair up assuming I got the genders right and the male doesn't just harrass the other fish.

What I did definitely confirm was that, as i thought, my existing firemouth is definitely a male. He is way too colorful to be a female. The display after adding the new firemouth was really impressive as he flared his gills out and chased the other firemouth all over the tank for several hours 

The new firemouth (which had some color around the belly and mouth when I got it but lost it after acclimating to the tank). I'm guessing this is either a female or a stressed male. Time will tell.



Some pictures of my existing firemouth flaring up while chasing the new firemouth. I was surprised how deep the colors got. My lousy pictures don't do it justice. 

Pics of the existing male firemouth flaring up / chasing the other firemouth












-Zeke


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## zwanged

I bit the bullet and decided to add a second firemouth to my tank, with the intent that I will potentially upgrade to a larger tank in the future as needed. it was kind of difficult to determine whether the firemouth I got from the store was a female or just a stressed male. Here are some pictures! I'm hoping they will pair up assuming I got the genders right and the male doesn't just harrass the other fish.

What I did definitely confirm was that, as i thought, my existing firemouth is definitely a male. He is way too colorful to be a female. The display after adding the new firemouth was really impressive as he flared his gills out and chased the other firemouth all over the tank for several hours 

The new firemouth (which had some color around the belly and mouth when I got it but lost it after acclimating to the tank). I'm guessing this is either a female or a stressed male. Time will tell.

Pic of new firemouth during acclimation -- does this look like a male or female, or hard to tell? Size is about 2.5-3"



After being released into the tank, lost most color as it got harassed by my existing firemouth.





Some pictures of my existing firemouth flaring up while chasing the new firemouth. I was surprised how deep the colors got. My lousy pictures don't do it justice. 

Pics of the existing male firemouth flaring up / chasing the other firemouth











So do you all think I have a male and female, and will they become an item? 

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Good looking fish there!


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## zwanged

Thanks! I can't wait to see what happens  Do you think this is too many fish / too much aggression for a 75 gal tank if all fish reach full size? I get the sense I may need to upgrade sooner, rather than later. I'm thinking about making the jump to 180, but probably will want to add some additional supports for the floor joists in my basement underneath my kitchen to handle such a large tank...My home is pretty new but a new tank on the other wall would sit PARALLEL to the floor joists...not ideal if it weighs 2000 pounds!

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

I did "beef up " the wall under my 180 as it runs parallel with joist and right over a beam.My house is not new and has 2x8 joist ,but they balloon over the beam(not real huge).
Your fish would certainly enjoy a larger tank eventually as much as I know you would!Can't go wrong going big.


----------



## zwanged

Any recommendations for 180gal tanks? I'm open to doing a FW sump just like on my 75...so I guess a tank with overflows would be required. If i want to be REALLY fancy I could run some pipes down my kitchen wall to my basement and put the sump there  Cool in theory but I think i probably won't do that.

I was thinking about the marineland monterey cabinet/canopy with a 180 gallon aquarium...Should I go with Marineland/Perfecto or get the actual glass aquarium from another manufacturer? Any suggestions? 

Thanks!
-Zeke


----------



## coralbandit

I'm big on aqueons overflow in comparison to all others.They're built better and not placed in corners .I split my returns so one goes right down in the corner and point other out to create the directional flow.
The 120 I just got is great and basically just a 4' version of the 180,I really like it(it's an aqueon with 2 overflows).My LFS guy probably hooks me up a little but it was only $425 plus the dursos(aqueon calls them mega overflows).
My filter for the 180 is in the basement so it's nice and quiet in my living room,but I did drill a 4" hole right through my floor(inside stand)!I use a mag model 24 to pump back up.
Your tank is probably pretty crowded by AQadvisor standards,as mine is seriously overstocked by their standards.They recommended what most would think are pretty large water changes,that I was already doing sometimes even more.They don't account for sump filters properly either I don't think?
Between your filter and changing about 20G a week your tank will stay healthy unless the fish just beat the snot out of each other.
Building your own stand will save you more money than the tank will cost,NO JOKE!


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## zwanged

My wife is very picky about the appearance so anything i build will probably be too ugly for her taste :-( Also my carpentry skills are pretty limited. I could probably follow an exact plan though and build myself. And I don't know if I trust myself to build something capable of supporting 2000 pounds.

Can you safely mix and match stands + aquariums from different manufacturers -- or bad idea? 

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

I should add the tank was $425 without any plumbing.The mega overflow kit comes with durso ,bulk heads the returns and flexabile extensions(2 for each overflow).
My 120 stand uses only 4 2x4 and 4 2x6 to support it on the corners(1 of each in each corner forming a 90).No support in middle for easy access to space below.
My 180 stand has 2x4 running the whole side(like 14 on each side) again with no support in middle as glass really doesn't bend.
All my tanks with overflows are aqueon(they were all glass years ago).I looked at perfecto ,marineland and deep blue and just don't like there design of overflows(check them out in person).Also noticed something about deep blue most probably never noticed;Tag said warranty voided if used on any metal stand.That said to me they used thinner glass and cheaper silicone that they had no confidence in their tank being stable without center support.Center supports really bone you if you ty to get a decent sized sump under your tank.
Building your own stand you can make it high enough to flow to your sump properly.
Also was told deep blue leak pretty often and way too soon.I've seen 3 used ones at a couple of my lfs that had fresh caulk in them in certain spots(all on the bottom).
The monteray is pretty expensive for a tank,stand and hood(over 3g).You can definately piece together quality components and build a nice(good quality wood) stand and canopy for way less.Probably be able to get all your equipment and still have cash left for fish!
I've used mahogany and poplar for my stands and even made cabinet doors for 120 out of LACE WOOD(that was about $120 just for 2 doors{15x30 inches}).But they look SWEET!


----------



## zwanged

Saw your 180gal tank stand in your gallery... Looks amazing! I just don't have very much experience in building things (yet). It was a huge undertaking for me to sand/stain/refinish my existing tank stand + canopy  But I'll look into seeing what it'll take to do the stand + canopy myself.

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> I should add the tank was $425 without any plumbing.The mega overflow kit comes with durso ,bulk heads the returns and flexabile extensions(2 for each overflow).
> My 120 stand uses only 4 2x4 and 4 2x6 to support it on the corners(1 of each in each corner forming a 90).No support in middle for easy access to space below.
> My 180 stand has 2x4 running the whole side(like 14 on each side) again with no support in middle as glass really doesn't bend.
> All my tanks with overflows are aqueon(they were all glass years ago).I looked at perfecto ,marineland and deep blue and just don't like there design of overflows(check them out in person).Also noticed something about deep blue most probably never noticed;Tag said warranty voided if used on any metal stand.That said to me they used thinner glass and cheaper silicone that they had no confidence in their tank being stable without center support.Center supports really bone you if you ty to get a decent sized sump under your tank.
> Building your own stand you can make it high enough to flow to your sump properly.
> Also was told deep blue leak pretty often and way too soon.I've seen 3 used ones at a couple of my lfs that had fresh caulk in them in certain spots(all on the bottom).
> The monteray is pretty expensive for a tank,stand and hood(over 3g).You can definately piece together quality components and build a nice(good quality wood) stand and canopy for way less.Probably be able to get all your equipment and still have cash left for fish!
> I've used mahogany and poplar for my stands and even made cabinet doors for 120 out of LACE WOOD(that was about $120 just for 2 doors{15x30 inches}).But they look SWEET!


----------



## coralbandit

I'll admit I build for a living,but most stands are really crappy.All it takes is patience ,the tools and space to work.Being a builder I'm pretty spoiled with really good tools and that stuff,but it's not really hard,and definately worthwhile(money and pride).
Your stand looks great,and you get to say you finished it.That almost always makes it worthwhile huh?
Look inside premade stands at stores ,they're really poorly built.I'm really suprised no one ever has said one failed yet,even for 55g.They use staples and the cheapest pine(less than 3/4" with no dimensional lumber at all.Not even one 2x3 or 2x4 just 3/4 boards stapled together)!
Look at premade stands and you'll see.


----------



## zwanged

Update:

Another rainbow died :-( I took the remaining 3 rainbows back to the store. I think they were getting their asses kicked by the firemouth or something.

Big firemouth was bullying the smaller firemouth badly so big firemouth is residing now in my basement 30gal tank alone. Seems a bit depressed...

Upon returning my rainbows I saw my LFS had some smallish Honduran Red Points (a subspecies or related species of "Convict") They were very cute and I couldn't resist...and got one female.

Here's a pic (more to follow):


Seems to be doing fine so far and has very interesting behavior  Has more color now -- i will post new pictures tonight.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

So I hope the worst is over with the firemouths. They had a fight to determine dominance which lasted about 20 minutes. In the end, the larger one seems to have won out, although both have a decent size of fin missing from their tails. The loser seems to be less colorful than the winner.

Here are some recent tank pictures. Note I finally got around to anchoring the java fern to the driftwood. Used fishing line to tie it down.





I'm starting to have some algae problems. Considering going the CO2 route. In the meantime I've reduced my lighting from 9 hours/day to 7 hours/day. I'm dosing Flourish Excel daily. Plants are not growing that well and are getting out-competed by algae.

Here's the dwarf sagitarria -- starting to look brown in some spots and not growing very well.



Looking into going "high tech" and doing a pressurized CO2 injection system.

Any recommendations? The part I'm not sure about is how I want to dissolve the C02. I think the ceramic/glass diffusers probably don't work very well, and am considering either a DIY option or a high end reactor.

What do you think of this reactor? How would I incorporate it into my setup? I guess I could just have it run in the sump -- NOT inline with the return pump, but having its output near the return pump.

CarbonDoser EXT5000 (External Reactor 5000)

Also, what kind of regulator do you recommend? I thought I would go with Milwaukee initially but it seems like they don't support perma-seal. Note that I do plan to upgrade from 75 to a 180gallon tank in the future so want a system that will be future-proof.

Also, I'm guessing my plants are nutrient deficient. The amazon swords seem to be lacking nutrients as the leaves are curling on the edges and not growing very well. Any particular fertilizers you would recommend that won't hurt my fish?

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

Changed out the plumbing in my sump. Was previous clear plastic tubing and decided to change it out with PVC pipe in my sump. Here's a picture of the new plumbing.



I didn't bother gluing the pipe as I thought it would do more harm than good. Given that I had trouble pulling it apart to glue it, I decided it wasn't worth gluing. Bad idea or good idea?

Anyway... seems to look less amateur than before. I made the intake pipe 1 1/4" PVC and the return pipe 1" PVC. Inside of the intake bulkhead is 1" male NPT and return bulkhead is 3/4" male NPT. The return plumbing doesn't really thread on very well to my bulkhead for some reason, I am thinking about changing it out to use the inner threads instead of the outer threads. Still, I don't think it's going anywhere -- it's on pretty tight.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

The existing Honduran red point laid eggs a few days ago and is patrolling them like crazy  The stripes turned a much darker shade of black -- it's amazing how different the coloration is! Apparently this particular red point had been in the shop for quite some time , it is undoubtedly the oldest fish in the tank.

New colors on the old red point:



Facing off with the firemouth which is about 10x its size:


Also, added a few more fish to the tank. 

1 more Honduran Red point

The new honduran red point looks a lot lighter colored (and younger) than the older red point. I think it's a female from the red splotch on the side -- but i suppose it's a bit early to tell. You can also see one of the electric blue EBJDs in the background.



2 Electric Blue Jack Dempseys (small and very cute).

I'll try to post some better pictures later.

I think better get upgraded to 180gal soon! Yes, I'm technically overstocked here but most fish are still quite small. 

According to AqAdvisor, I'm 60% stocked on the 75 if you factor in the current fish sizes and 168% stocked on the 75 if you assume they are full size 

Still...I think i'm starting to run into territorial issues with the firemouths/severums and they aren't even that big yet! That said, I will take my time planning/preparing the new 180gal tank. It's going to be a lot of work but I'm looking forward to it.

-Zeke


----------



## zwanged

As promised, here are some pictures of the new electric blue jack dempseys:


----------



## zwanged

Also here are some updated pics on some of the other tank inhabitants:


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## coralbandit

Everyone looks great!That's quite a tough group of fish you got going there,rough nieghborhood!I was going to say they look sweet,but they're to tough to be sweet,but they are sweet looking!


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## zwanged

Yeah -- i think they'll appreciate the extra space of a 180... They're still nowhere near full size though so I can take my time planning the upgrade.


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## zwanged

Currently I'm using pool filter sand on this 75 gallon which is a rather light color. For the 180, should I go with a darker substrate AND a black background? I thought the colors of the fish might pop a lot if I do that, or will it be too much darkness? I suppose the fish will probably be more comfortable with a darker substrate...maybe black diamond blasting sand? Any recommendations?

If in doubt I'll just stick to pool filter sand.

I'm just planning to do java ferns + anubias attached to driftwood. Maybe swords too (with root tabs).

-Zeke


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## johnmark03

Hey it's a great job buddy ...
you have done a great job


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## zwanged

Thank you....appreciate it! The tank's been going since early December. I think I am going to need to upgrade to a bigger tank soon due to impending territorial issues. I will keep everyone posted! But so far not too much fin damage on any one fish. But as soon as these fish grow out more I think I'm going to be in trouble without the bigger tank! 

Maybe I will try to learn how to do salt-water on this 75 once I move over.

-Zeke



johnmark03 said:


> Hey it's a great job buddy ...
> you have done a great job


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## coralbandit

Your tank does look great!You're probably going to add more deco(wood,rocks,plants) to your larger set up,so maybe getting some of that stuff sooner and installing it in the 75 will help the fish develope thier territories and block physical line of sight for some.
The salt water idea is a great one!Besides the intiall set up and time it takes to cycle(it does take a little longer than fresh) the mechanics of salt and the care are as easy if not easier over time.It takes a year for a salt tank to be mature although the cycle can easily be completed in under 2 months.
Lights and a protien skimmer are your most important investment for salt,as you already have your sump which will work wonderfully for you.
I'll be pulling out the drawer system today and load up some photos for you Zeke.


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## TroyVSC

I personally love the draker substrate on my tank but it is all personal preference. I think you purposely set it up for the overcrowding just so you can get a bigger tank. I think I will try the same and tell the missus that "oops i didn't realize but Honey you don't want the fish to suffer right?"


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## zwanged

Haha...you're probably right. That certainly was going on at at least a sub-conscious level 

-Zeke



TroyVSC said:


> I personally love the draker substrate on my tank but it is all personal preference. I think you purposely set it up for the overcrowding just so you can get a bigger tank. I think I will try the same and tell the missus that "oops i didn't realize but Honey you don't want the fish to suffer right?"


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## zwanged

Returned the smaller firemouth which was too much of a bully.

The other tank inhabitants, especially the severums seem much happier with just 1 firemouth in the tank (the larger one which has a much better temperament).

the larger electric blue jack dempsey is bullying the smaller one...I think I may return the smaller one for store credit. Only problem is the not-so-local fish store where I got it is really far away -- like a 70 minute drive... I convinced them to take it back for credit ... but it's hard for me to convince myself to drive 60+ miles in each direction to return an overpriced $40 fish...maybe sell on craigslist / try to trade at a more local LFS?  Just checked with one of my LFSes...they won't even it take a $40 fish for free! surprising!

If I try to exchange one of the EBJDs for a salvini -- am I asking for trouble, even for a 180 gallon tank? I hear they *can* be nasty when they get bigger, but there's always going to be individual variation, right?

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Here's an analysis from aqadvisor if I find a new home for one of my EBJDs and get 1 salvini -- and upgrade to 180 of course.

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

If I keep the 2nd EBJD, i may have territorial issues later on, even in the 180:

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

Should I try to find a new home for the 2nd EBJD, or take my chances? The smaller one is way less active than the bigger one...it's definitely the runt...and just hides in the corner.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Ya with only two you either got to spread out the beating(more at $40?) or send one .Many times with some species having only two will only work if they pair up to breed,which then often causes havoc for other tank mates,or if you school them so the beatings are sread out.Kind of a shame as the EBJD is a very good looking fish.I've never seen any but young/juvis,and am curious how they show when grown?


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## zwanged

Yup I was stupid and got 2...:-( Maybe i'll try growing them out and see what happens....they still are very small -- maybe barely 2 inches. Or maybe i'll ask some random customers at my LFS if they want it 

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Ya with only two you either got to spread out the beating(more at $40?) or send one .Many times with some species having only two will only work if they pair up to breed,which then often causes havoc for other tank mates,or if you school them so the beatings are sread out.Kind of a shame as the EBJD is a very good looking fish.I've never seen any but young/juvis,and am curious how they show when grown?


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## zwanged

Here are some updated pics of the crew. I treated the tank for ich (introduced by the red points or EBJDs or plecos) 8.5 days with 1/2 daily dose of quickcure, doing 50% PWC every 3rd day. Should've raised tank temp from 78 to 82 on day 1...did it on day 3 instead. Even so, I think I should have eradicated it. Will monitor them closely.

Btw the fish seem a bit skittish lately -- hiding whenever I walk by...they didn't used to spook like this. Stress, I guess? Perhaps the fact that I hadn't run lights on the tank while medicating, and now they're running 7 hours/day? Hope they calm down...

New developments on tank pecking order/aggression: 

Yesterday: The female red points just recently decided the hate each other...My guess is this is because the smaller one has caught up in size with the bigger one? I'll keep an eye on them. I'd hate to have to give one away...They're small but they pack a big punch for their size and can do a surprising amount of damage.

Firemouth seems to hang out a lot with the 2.5" electric blue jack dempsey....He seems to not be bothered at all. Very interesting... meanwhile Firemouth hates the salvini + red points + severums. Go figure...  Will be interesting to see how this evolves as the EBJD grows.

Salvini seems to have settled in, and seems to outrank red points now -- but very little confrontation.

Firemouth is still the king of the tank, though red spotted severum is a close second. 

Here's the approximate pecking order:

Firemouth -> Red severum -> Salvini -> Honduran red points -> Green severum -> electric blue jack dempsey -> Bristlenose Plecos/catfish.

Also here are some updated pics of the tankmates I took tonight. The synodontis nigriventris catfish usually hide so don't have pics of them.
























































































































-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Good looking fish!They appear healthy (no sign of disease).Pics 2&3 are the red points?Although they seem to be middle of the road in pecking order they both seem rather robust, so don't let them fool you,they get their share of food,or possibly are carrying eggs and that would explain the issues between them?


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## zwanged

Actually pics 2 and 3 happen to be the same red point. This red point is much younger than the older one... My LFS said they probably had that older one for like a year . That red point actually had just laid eggs for the second time earlier this week (Just under 3 weeks from the last batch of eggs!). It was quite hilarious, actually...it built a sand castle in the corner of the tank! See pictures below... It moved a LOT of sand  Good parent! . Too bad there's no male 




























The salvini came in pretty sick with the other batch of salvinis...but I added it anyway since I had just started treating the tank for ich/parasites anyway. She still has a tiny bit of secondary infection around her mouth but it's been disappearing. I've been giving them spectrum 1mm pellets soaked in Vitachem, which has garlic, vitamin C, etc. Seems to work pretty well. 

-Zeke





coralbandit said:


> Good looking fish!They appear healthy (no sign of disease).Pics 2&3 are the red points?Although they seem to be middle of the road in pecking order they both seem rather robust, so don't let them fool you,they get their share of food,or possibly are carrying eggs and that would explain the issues between them?


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## zwanged

Ugh seems like ich is back. Did 50% WC, raised tank temp to 84ish, and dosed quickcure, this time full dosage instead of half dosage. will see how things look after 3 days..might do another 50% WC and repeat treatment -- before upgrading to 180...A lot cheaper to medicate a 75gal tank +20gal sump (95 gallons) than a 180 (+ 75 sump) = 255 gallons!

-Zeke


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## coralbandit

Not sure about the quick cure,but th rid ich plus gets dosed everyday while treating.
I just treated 2 of my salt water fish in a 10g and found they were very tolerant of 3x the dose.Between that and being a bare bottom tank(easy to thoroughly clean bottom)I cleared them both up in about 7 days.I hope the main tank is safe as marine ich can live for 11 months,but I guess I'll have to wait and see.It's not easy catching them(from the 120),but was way more effective and way less meds in the 10.The two ichs are different,but the meds are the same.The recommended dose was 1 teaspoon per 10g and on day 3 I managed to get 3 teaspoons in tank and niether seemed to have any bad effects.
Good luck.


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## zwanged

The reason I initially did 1/2 dose during the last outbreak was that I have catfish in the tank, which may be more sensitive to medication.

Since 1/2 dose didn't seem to do the trick though, I upped the dosage this time.

-Zeke


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## zwanged

Update:

Whatever the Rotkeil severum had wasn't ich, it just kind of comes and goes. Right now he looks clean in the 180.

The Rotkeil severum was kind of beating up the other 2 severums pretty badly so I evacuated them to my 75 gallon. I also moved over the small electric blue jack dempsey and an albino BN pleco. The guppies that were in the 75 got moved to the 30 gal in the basement.

Seems like the 2 severums paired up in the 75! They've been digging a massive hole and are doing lots of tail shaking / head shaking / lip locking / chasing etc.

Here is a link to a bunch of recent pics of the 75. Note the sand piled up on the left hand corner of the tank and on top of the driftwood 

Severum Breeding In 75gal Photos by zwanged | Photobucket

Think I probably should do a few water changes to reduce the salt concentration, it's still at about 70% of the full dose.

-Zeke


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