# Ammonia, Nitrites fine - Nitrates through the roof...Please help!!



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

So that I don't have to write the whole thing over again you can read the background of what I'm doing at here at this thread

Fin Rot or Not

So I've tested my water again

Ammonia is between 0 and .25
Nitrites are 0
Nitrates are pushing 80 ppm

I'm really not sure what to do. Moving the tank on Saturday was essentially a 50% water change not 3 days ago, So is it too soon to do another change? 

Is there an alternate way to bring the nitrates down to a safer level?

Please advise.

*H2


----------



## jshiloh13 (Dec 12, 2010)

It is not too early to do another water change. You can do a 75% water change every day if you want, it won't hurt anything as long as you dechlorinate your water.


----------



## jshiloh13 (Dec 12, 2010)

Also putting plants in your tank and there are some stuff you can put in your filter such as nitasorb (I think that's what it's called) that will lower your nitrates. But water changes are the fastest way to do it.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Well i checked my tap water to make sure it wasnt full of nitrates and its not.

it read pretty much 0 so i know its not the test kit or the tap water...its all in the tank.

So I'm going to do a water change as soon as i have some time. Hopefully tomorrow.

Whats the most popular way you guys dechlorinate your water?

*c/p*


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I agree, with that reading of Nitrates i would deffo do water changes to get it down. I read a bit about the situation with this tank and though the fish have been through a lot to me it's a bit of a catch twenty two. They have had to change enviroment very quickly but that Nitrate reading won't help.A lot on here use Prime water conditioner (i do too) but, whichever you use it's best to add the conditioner to the water 'before' adding the new water to the tank. If you have the time it's helpful to have the new water in a container with an airstone running to well oxygenate the water before adding.

I hope you get a positive outcome with all this going on especially as you took them on to help the someone in trouble out
Also though i'm so for 'not' having many fish in a tank when it reaches the point where it's well cycled and water testing A1,just my opinion but i would add another Silver Dollar but, that's just my opinion
Good luck


----------



## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

The #1 best way to get rid of nitrates is to do a water change and keep up with them, , a 75% everyday is not nesescary unless your keeping discus or other very sensitive fish in my opinion. Personally I don't think your nitrates are that bad, a bit high, but not that bad. Ideally you would want to keep it <40 ppm, I would maybe do a 30% w/c and another in acouple days, I personally do 50% min. w/c weekly and it definetly keeps headaches away, whatever you decide to do once you get the nitrates down to "normal" make sure you don't slack on the water changes, fresh clean water is as good to our fish as clean air is to us , if not better

As to the water dechlore I just use aqueon water conditioner, I know a lot of people use prime and api stress coat as well, there are tons of different kinds of em and they all pretty much do the same job


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys.

I'll do a water change tonight and test and again tomorrow and report back.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

seachem purigen a synthetic resin that is re-chargeable(should last a year or more) removes nitrAtes 24/7. simply place in filter and re-charge in 50% bleach water soak for 24 hrs.After bleach soak in double dechlorinated water as bleach is chlorine based.Works slowly but constantly,still make water changes as scheduled(should have schedule) and enjoy consistently better water quality.


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

80 nitrates isn't ideal but it's actually pretty tolerable for fish if the pH is above 7.
I'd stick with standard water changes from hereon and maybe add some hornwort to the top of the tank to slowly bring nitrates down with your fish load.
cb


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> seachem purigen a synthetic resin that is re-chargeable(should last a year or more) removes nitrAtes 24/7. simply place in filter and re-charge in 50% bleach water soak for 24 hrs.After bleach soak in double dechlorinated water as bleach is chlorine based.Works slowly but constantly,still make water changes as scheduled(should have schedule) and enjoy consistently better water quality.


coralbandit, that's what i use now in all my filters because some while ago i had Nitrates testing at 80ppm from the tap water. I'm often rather sceptical about certain products but as you say though it takes time i have found it does work.
Going off track i know but, i'm still only looking at the tank i got because one of my Blackmoors has a change in behaviour, he's eating and i can't see anything on him at all but he seems just a bit slower than usual so iv'e put the move to the other tank on hold untill i see him acting his usual self.
I got a 3D rock effect backdrop from Amazon and it looks so realistic, i really love it and it will show the fish substrate & plants up because it's quite dark, like different tones of brown so i'm throughly enjoying myself looking at an 'empty' tank with a backdrop on it hahahaha


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> 80 nitrates isn't ideal but it's actually pretty tolerable for fish if the pH is above 7.
> I'd stick with standard water changes from hereon and maybe add some hornwort to the top of the tank to slowly bring nitrates down with your fish load.
> cb


Hello cb
Does it depend on what type of fish because i had a problem with the tap water reading 80ppm some while ago and it really affected my Orandas . They went really dreary but as soon as we got water from a fishy pal with very low nitrates & used that they were back to their normal selves. Though it didn't affect the tropicals the same way so is it that it can affect some but not others. I don't know perhaps i'm too much of a jitterbug about water


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> seachem purigen a synthetic resin that is re-chargeable(should last a year or more) removes nitrAtes 24/7. simply place in filter and re-charge in 50% bleach water soak for 24 hrs.After bleach soak in double dechlorinated water as bleach is chlorine based.Works slowly but constantly,still make water changes as scheduled(should have schedule) and enjoy consistently better water quality.


Seachem Purigen? Is that something my LFS is going to carry or something I'd get online? 

I've got two media baskets on my filter sitting empty right now, that seems like it would be a good candidate for me.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> 80 nitrates isn't ideal but it's actually pretty tolerable for fish if the pH is above 7.
> I'd stick with standard water changes from hereon and maybe add some hornwort to the top of the tank to slowly bring nitrates down with your fish load.
> cb



My PH was around 7.5 last time i tested it. (Sunday) So thats good to hear. I'll stop panicking now. I'm headed to my LFS tonight for some supplies and I'll probably do one more partial change tomorrow. I'm still sucking old crap out of the gravel i didn't get rinsed well enough before i setup the tank.

I do have another question though...does anyone else think on the API master freshwater test kit that the difference in color on the Nitrate scale between 40PPM and 80 PPM is almost indistinguishable?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

LFS should have purigen.Small packet($10) handles 100 g jar much more(I always get pre packed small packet {if jar you need filter/mesh bag}(I run 2 or 3 on 180g and re-new(re-charge) 1 at a time.) There is no true substitute for purigen so if they don't have it order on line as other denitrators are not the same or re-chargeable.And yes the color key is diffacult to say the best. Reading under strong lighting on cards white background yeilds best results.Always read in favor of higher number if you can't decide as without trying to fertalise plants nitrAte has no good qualities and besides purigen can only (and needs to be)removed through waterchanges.Good luck and change water regularly,I like the "fresh air" thought myself.Try to keep nitrAtes 40 or under .


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> LFS should have purigen.Small packet($10) handles 100 g jar much more(I always get pre packed small packet {if jar you need filter/mesh bag}(I run 2 or 3 on 180g and re-new(re-charge) 1 at a time.) There is no true substitute for purigen so if they don't have it order on line as other denitrators are not the same or re-chargeable.And yes the color key is diffacult to say the best. Reading under strong lighting on cards white background yeilds best results.Always read in favor of higher number if you can't decide as without trying to fertalise plants nitrAte has no good qualities and besides purigen can only (and needs to be)removed through waterchanges.Good luck and change water regularly,I like the "fresh air" thought myself.Try to keep nitrAtes 40 or under .



Thanks a ton. Its always great to get advice from someone who knows what they are talking about. *w3 

I saw I can get the Purigen on amazon.com and I can get two day free shipping. So if my LFS doesnt have it thats what I'll do.

As soon as i get some Prime or something like it for dechlorinating I'll be doing changes regularly to get the nitrates down around the 40 mark. right now I'm pretty sure they are closer to 80 than 40. hard to tell on my chart...we got the card out and my wife and I look at both the 40 and the 80 under a lamp....and they look nearly identical. I have pretty good eyes and am not color blind. The test water looks to be right in that range, possibly a little darker, but since the colors are so close its hard to tell. But Im guessing its on the upper range.

So Purigen and water changes it is.

When people do water changes does that generally include vacuuming the gravel as well or just a straight up exchange of water?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Vaccuming helps with exporting accumulated waste.But changing just water still is effective.Sand substrate tanks(my 180 G) does not get vaccumed as debris has hard time settling in substrate.My glass bottom(fry/grow outs) get vac to remove visable waste.Just changing water on the 180 works well and is made more convient by semi auto(pump in sump to remove/pump in 32 g. rubbermaid fresh conditioned water to add).Both sync for flow and on same switch(less then 3 minutes to change 30G).Change water whenever your enjoying your tank,it only helps(never hurts).Fresh air!


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Still havent had the money to get the Purigen or stress coat yet. :-( Been doing small water changes, since i don't have a conditioner ive been stuck with doing very small water changes.

Nitrate levels have dropped a little, but not significantly....sigh.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Do a w/c for the next 3 day 35-50%. Don't feed for 5 days and test again. Float some anacharis. I think you have a feeding issue.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Do a w/c for the next 3 day 35-50%. Don't feed for 5 days and test again. Float some anacharis. I think you have a feeding issue.


Its not a feeding issue, i've only lightly fed like 3 times in the last week. And it was a very light feeding. Its a rescued a terribly neglected tank, and didnt rinse the gravel well enough and also probably saved to much of the old water.

I really probably just need a few good water changes, I'm just hesitant to do a large ones because i dont have any conditioner.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You need dechlorinator(one that eliminates chloramine also) if you don't know what your municipality puts in your water.In the old days you could let water stand for 24 hrs or so and the chlorine would evaporate,but these days with the possibility of having chloramine(does not evaporate), and many other "heavy metals" conditioners have become the way of life for keepers.Check on web to see what your water supplier uses and what other "goodies" they add in(some use ammonia,while many have nitrates as high as 20 right out of tap).All suppliers recieve state mandated test at least 1 time a year or even 2-3 times and list results on web.Good luck ,get conditioner you need to vacumm gravel and change water before it's to late.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hell i agree, no way would i do large water changes without using any de chlor, personally i think that could kill the fish off but even for small changes, dechlor is a must


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Seriously guys, I think you're all being a bit paranoid here.
60-80 nitrates and dropping is a great place to be -even if it is a slight drop.
Say 20% pwcs are being done weekly and Nitrates are stable at 80 - increasing pwc by 5% immediately reduces this to 60.
Since the Nitrates are dropping, we don't know where they'll stabilize - I'd be guessing but I'd say round the 40 mark is where they'd level off - and plants are likely to bring them down further.
There's no need to panic at all, things are well on their way.
cb


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I just googled about not using de chlor. If this is a true showing here not using it can mess with your filter

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...24HYCw&usg=AFQjCNE4zsWvyRssquk4WmrpPr3ucYrf1w

Anyway good luck with your tank,you.ve put a lot of work into all this going on


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think anyone is saying do anything without a dechlor and yes it can kill off beneficial bacteria. I also agree that 60-80 is not bad as long as it is going down.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Ok, well Good news Bad news.

Bad news, Nitrates are still hovering around 60-80 ppm. (Been holding off on the water changes, i did do a quick sweep of the gravel just to get some waste out of the tank)

The GOOD news is, I've got 2- 100ml media bags of Purigen coming as well as some stress coat water conditioner. Ordered through amazon with 2 day shipping. They MIGHT show up today if it comes UPS (we get ups stuff really fast.) Worst case it shows up Wednesday and I can finally do a larger water change, and then add the Purigen to my media baskets.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

Man....reading what all the Stress Coat is supposed to do for fish...makes me wish they had stress coat for humans.... *r2


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

hahahaha You're not ging to have a swig of it are you Matthew lol
Seriously though that's good to hear you've a conditioner on the way then the water changes 'should' get those Nitrates down that are bugging you.

I love the way you've set that tank up,to me it looks cosy andnot too many colours intermingled which is how i personally like them


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

goldie said:


> hahahaha You're not ging to have a swig of it are you Matthew lol
> Seriously though that's good to hear you've a conditioner on the way then the water changes 'should' get those Nitrates down that are bugging you.
> 
> I love the way you've set that tank up,to me it looks cosy andnot too many colours intermingled which is how i personally like them


ging?
I mean 'going' to have a swig


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

goldie said:


> ging?
> I mean 'going' to have a swig


I will try to resist!

Honestly I kind of got lucky with the tank setup. My mom and I had collected fake plants and decor for years, and whats in there is the culmination of what looked best together. 

I honestly wish i had 1 or 2 taller plants, to help fill the upper tank space in the back. I just found a huge piece of wood over at my moms, I may nab and put in if it looks good.

I should probably try to get somthing else like that bell i have in there. Right now the one Pleco and my Pictus catfish are constantly crammed into that thing. It think it would be nice if they had their own "rooms"


----------



## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Here's the thing - once you've saved the fish, you'll be wanting REAL plants because they/(You - sorry Loreal) are worth every penny.
I think I have the most greenery per square foot on the forum... seeing gravel is becoming difficult.
cb


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

clep.berry said:


> Here's the thing - once you've saved the fish, you'll be wanting REAL plants because they/(You - sorry Loreal) are worth every penny.
> I think I have the most greenery per square foot on the forum... seeing gravel is becoming difficult.
> cb


I'm right there with you! I've always had gravel and fake plants....I've personally had 4 or 5 tanks over the years and thats how every one of them has been setup.

With this new tank, I had some issues that were beyond my knowledge so I joined this forum...and within like 15 minutes, I had already decided I wanted a sand substrate and real plants... *r2 *w3

Possibly if i get some discretionary cash, and time over the upcoming holiday season I'll attempt a change.


----------



## drbromiandufewd (Nov 11, 2012)

The Nitrate levels must have been higher than I initially thought. 

Last night I did about a 40% WC, dosed with water conditioner and added purigen to my filter.

Nitrate levels are down, but They are still in the 40+ range. The difference between 80 and 40 on my API chart is indistinguishable to me....so my guess is they were much closer to 80 than 40.

I did notice, it took at lot longer to get to the redish color, and its not as deep red as before. I have a feeling another good water change and letting the Purigen do its thing for a day or so will hopefully bring the Nitrate levels down under 40 ppm.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

So you're feeling more relaxed now Matthew? You know the Purigen works slowly as coralbandit said and if your tanks cycling (not sure if it is) you don't really need it in there.

I can't have real plants in the tank i'm setting up to transfer my orandas to because they mess them up chewing at them but got some really lifelike artificial ones just in different shadings of green, then i throw in some real out of sight so they can munch but i don't have to look at a decimated tank.


----------

