# 75 gallon FW Aquarium running hot



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi,

For some odd reason my 75 gallon tank (Oceanic tank) is running quite hot. Even without the lights on the tank running it runs about 5F above room temperature. So when the room temperature is 77 the tank is at 82. 

I'm not even running the heater. The only thing that could possibly be contributing heat would be the old Eheim 1060 pump being used in the sump, but I heard those types of pumps are not supposed to contribute much heat at all. I had similar temperature problems when I tried a new Mag 9.5 instead.

I think the biggest part of the problem is lack of ventilation. The canopy is enclosed on all 4 sides and only has some tiny gaps on the sides around where it sits above the aquarium rim.

I'm thinking I might need to cut out the back of the canopy (so sad) and put in some ventilation fans (probably rig up some computer fans?) Aesthetically, I would rather not adulterate the top or the sides of the canopy. There just isn't a good place for the heat in the tank to escape....I also removed the glass lids but that surprisingly barely helped at all.

Also... underneath the tank in the stand/cabinet, where i have a 20 gallon sump, the back panel only has 2 small 4" holes (where i'm running wires. So there's really very little ventilation down there as well, other than the small gaps around the cabinet doors and those holes.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd rather not shell out $500 for an aquarium chiller if I can avoid it.

Finally do you think 82-84F is a bit hot for 2 severums and a jack dempsey and an albino BN pleco. Or should I not even care? My understanding is that it's on the high end of their range...I would think that 78-80F would be ideal?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Throw some CPU fans across the water surface, that'll cool it down.
My fans fit just below the Halides.


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## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

My house stays at about 78 degrees but my water stays at 82 also. I'm not sure of the science behind it, but I don't want to turn my air down that much to keep the water at 75 degrees. I know 82 is hot (it seems quite cool to me), but my fish don't show any signs of having a problem with it.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

Test or get another thermometer. Either the one in your tank, or the one in your house is wrong.

When you say no heater, you mean there isn't one in the tank? Or you never "see" it on? What temp is the heater set to? Recall, never trust the setting on the heater, use a reliable themometer to adjust the heater dial.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I have 2 thermometers on the tank and they both agree within 1 degree. I even tried a third thermometer and it also agrees. I will try putting a thermometer outside the tank just to double check that my indoor temperature is not going much above 77...but it's in a cooler pat of the house that gets less hot...so I i'm pretty sure that's what the temperature is.

I literally unplugged my Aqueon Pro heater just to be sure it wasn't a defective heater. Tank gets up to 84 if i run the lights 4 hours a day, then drops down to about 82 if I leave the canopy open overnight. If I don't run the lights at all the tank is about 82 all the time. I think the problem is there's literally nowhere for the heat to go...

-zeke



FishFlow said:


> Test or get another thermometer. Either the one in your tank, or the one in your house is wrong.
> 
> When you say no heater, you mean there isn't one in the tank? Or you never "see" it on? What temp is the heater set to? Recall, never trust the setting on the heater, use a reliable themometer to adjust the heater dial.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Would adding a bubbler help? That would push room temp air through the water. Also help with surface agitation for better gas transfer.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I thought about it....I could put one in the sump. It certainly would speed up evaporation. Though I'm not sure I want too much moist air accumulating in the aquarium cabinet....there's zero ventilation down there! Almost fully enclosed except for 2 holes for wiring in the back.

-Zeke



SeanMcC said:


> Would adding a bubbler help? That would push room temp air through the water. Also help with surface agitation for better gas transfer.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

My canopy has zero large openings, so I guess I'm going to need to cut open the back of the canopy to make room for the fans? Am I also going to need exit holes, or just let the positive pressure push the air out the small gaps in the canopy? I feel like at a minimum I need the fans to draw in fresh air from outside the canopy.

-Zeke




Reefing Madness said:


> Throw some CPU fans across the water surface, that'll cool it down.
> My fans fit just below the Halides.
> View attachment 2730


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Well if it was just maxing out at 82 I would be OK with it..the problem is that it gets even hotter than that ..84-86F, if I run the lights more. I would like to be able to run the lighting longer than I am right now.



Ty said:


> My house stays at about 78 degrees but my water stays at 82 also. I'm not sure of the science behind it, but I don't want to turn my air down that much to keep the water at 75 degrees. I know 82 is hot (it seems quite cool to me), but my fish don't show any signs of having a problem with it.


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## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

I understand. I leave my lights on all day, turning them off when I go to bed, and on when I get up. I don't have a canopy though. So my guess would be like you said, there is just no where for heat to go so it is heating up the water.

As much as you hate to do it, cutting into the canopy and installing fans seems like the best bet. Or going with LED lights?...They don't put off the heat that fluorescents do.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah I agree. I think there's no choice but to cut into the back of the canopy.

-Zeke



Ty said:


> I understand. I leave my lights on all day, turning them off when I go to bed, and on when I get up. I don't have a canopy though. So my guess would be like you said, there is just no where for heat to go so it is heating up the water.
> 
> As much as you hate to do it, cutting into the canopy and installing fans seems like the best bet. Or going with LED lights?...They don't put off the heat that fluorescents do.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If the setup is tall and not able to see the top surface, I'd also consider cutting two holes in the top for fans to pull the hot air out.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Setup is not that tall, so probably wouldn't want to do that. Well, I can easily see the top, not sure if my wife can...Tough call 

-Zeke


jrman83 said:


> If the setup is tall and not able to see the top surface, I'd also consider cutting two holes in the top for fans to pull the hot air out.


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## rayray74 (Mar 19, 2013)

82 is not hot at all for them. Your fine. Ask the fish in the amazon. its hot there.
if your really concerned freeze some water bottles. Plop them in the sump.
big orange juice bottles are great. Thicker plastic and screw on lid.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah, I agree that 82F is acceptable, but what about when it gets up to 84-86F after I start running the lights for 6-8 hours a day? It tends to take a long time to cool down as well, due to lack of ventilation and high specific heat of water.

-Zeke



rayray74 said:


> 82 is not hot at all for them. Your fine. Ask the fish in the amazon. its hot there.
> if your really concerned freeze some water bottles. Plop them in the sump.
> big orange juice bottles are great. Thicker plastic and screw on lid.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm thinking I should try cutting out some holes in the rear of the canopy for computer fans and just have them blow across the surface of the water. Will see if getting the fresh air in there will be sufficient before adding any ventilation holes on the top (which I would prefer to avoid if possible).

I'll see how that works out and report back...Thank you all for your help!

-Zeke


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

zwanged said:


> My canopy has zero large openings, so I guess I'm going to need to cut open the back of the canopy to make room for the fans? Am I also going to need exit holes, or just let the positive pressure push the air out the small gaps in the canopy? I feel like at a minimum I need the fans to draw in fresh air from outside the canopy.
> 
> -Zeke


You need 2 holes, you can put them both in top, or on oppostie ends, or in the back. One run blowing in, the other blowing out. My canopy is open on the back, much easier to place the fans.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'll try on opposite ends in the back. should 29CFM 80mm fans be sufficient? Something like this: 

COOLER MASTER SAF-B83-E1 Case Fan - Newegg.com


Btw I forgot to mention the tank lighting is a two 54W bulb T5H0 fixture, but just running on a single 10k bulb for now.

Thank you,
-Zeke




Reefing Madness said:


> You need 2 holes, you can out them both in top, or on oppostie ends or in the back. One ran blowing in, the other blowing out. My canopy is open on the back, much easier to place the fans.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Yup, that's all you need.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you are ambitious enough you should remove the ballast from your light fixture and remotely locate them somewhere outside of the stand or canapy.They and the pump are the only source of heat that can drive you over room temp.(the ballast are BIG HEAT PRODUCERS).
When I had 6 VHO flourescents I ran the wires into my basement(way before my filter was in basement and much easier to do,as small hole1/4" in base molding and then mounted my ballst to my metal duct work.I got heat for free{so to speak as the duct work functioned as heat sink} in winter,and had way less heat in my tank during summer).I also installed 4-5" computer fan in top of canopy.I have no back on canopy so it just moved air easily.I ran the lead from CPU fan to timer to turn on when lights turned on automatically so it was a no brainer(I'm pretty good at those).


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'll try the ingress/egress fans in the canopy first to see how much that helps. it's pretty darn warm even with no lights..


-zeke



coralbandit said:


> If you are ambitious enough you should remove the ballast from your light fixture and remotely locate them somewhere outside of the stand or canapy.They and the pump are the only source of heat that can drive you over room temp.(the ballast are BIG HEAT PRODUCERS).
> When I had 6 VHO flourescents I ran the wires into my basement(way before my filter was in basement and much easier to do,as small hole1/4" in base molding and then mounted my ballst to my metal duct work.I got heat for free{so to speak as the duct work functioned as heat sink} in winter,and had way less heat in my tank during summer).I also installed 4-5" computer fan in top of canopy.I have no back on canopy so it just moved air easily.I ran the lead from CPU fan to timer to turn on when lights turned on automatically so it was a no brainer(I'm pretty good at those).


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> If you are ambitious enough you should remove the ballast from your light fixture and remotely locate them somewhere outside of the stand or canapy.They and the pump are the only source of heat that can drive you over room temp.(the ballast are BIG HEAT PRODUCERS).
> When I had 6 VHO flourescents I ran the wires into my basement(way before my filter was in basement and much easier to do,as small hole1/4" in base molding and then mounted my ballst to my metal duct work.I got heat for free{so to speak as the duct work functioned as heat sink} in winter,and had way less heat in my tank during summer).I also installed 4-5" computer fan in top of canopy.I have no back on canopy so it just moved air easily.I ran the lead from CPU fan to timer to turn on when lights turned on automatically so it was a no brainer(I'm pretty good at those).


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## ArtyG (Jun 29, 2011)

82 degrees is what most tropical fish call cozy. Its breeding temp! When I breed my fish besides feeding heavily with frozen and live foods I also raise the temp to 82-85 . Works every time. Last night my silver dollars sprayed thousands of egg in to several hand tied mops submerged in a plastic 150 gallon stock watering trough heated by the sun to 87 degrees. I have never tried it outdoors with tropicals before. Initial fry food will be home grown infusoria followed by daphnia and ground flake. They should be large enough to net out by mid September.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I think if I can get the fan to drop the max temp by 2-3 degrees then i'll be in the 82-84 range when running my lights a reasonable amount... 

Thanks for the info!

-Zeke



ArtyG said:


> 82 degrees is what most tropical fish call cozy. Its breeding temp! When I breed my fish besides feeding heavily with frozen and live foods I also raise the temp to 82-85 . Works every time. Last night my silver dollars sprayed thousands of egg in to several hand tied mops submerged in a plastic 150 gallon stock watering trough heated by the sun to 87 degrees. I have never tried it outdoors with tropicals before. Initial fry food will be home grown infusoria followed by daphnia and ground flake. They should be large enough to net out by mid September.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Even doing a single fan at full speed blowing fresh air across the water with no egress fan appears to work great. The positive pressure just pushes the air out the top (through small openings in the canopy) and out the small gaps around the edges. It easily dropped the temp by 3 degrees last night in just a few hours.

I'll do some tests today and see how the temperature looks with the lights and fan running. I put the fan on my light timer so it's not running all the time. The fan was pretty loud at full throttle so i put its temperature sensor back on -- should turn up if canopy gets too hot.

-Zeke


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

If you were concerned about looks the fans could be cut in to blow on your sump, same effect.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Here's some pics of the setup. I cut out a hole in the back of canopy and then just wedged the fan in / taped around it to hold it in place. it's not going 
anywhere. Just a single fan blowing in for now.






-zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

The problem is that won't do enough to prevent heat buildup in the canopy. My canopy is totally enclosed. Now with the fan in there, it at least has fresh room temp air getting blown in constantly.

-Zeke



dalfed said:


> If you were concerned about looks the fans could be cut in to blow on your sump, same effect.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Glad it has worked.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

You can't just have a single fan blowing in, where is the outlet for the heat?


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Works on the same principle as many computer cases -- where you just use fans to create positive pressure within the case to push heat out. 

There's small gap along the top of the canopy where the hinge is, and around the edge. In fact I can stick my hand above the canopy and feel the air getting pushed out of the small gaps.


Reefing Madness said:


> You can't just have a single fan blowing in, where is the outlet for the heat?


I'll see how this performs running the light 10 hours today with the fan. If it's not keeping up i'll add a second fan on the other side. Only had 1 fan on hand last night so I was just using what I had available.

-Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

RM: 

Check out this link where they discuss the various ventilation configurations. 

Canopy fan suggestions..? - Reef Central Online Community

Only downside to intake only is the slight back pressure on the fan.

-Zeke


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Yea, theres arguements on both sides, but I get ya.
Canopy fan suggestions..? - Reef Central Online Community
*I'd have a hard time disagreeing with you ,simply on the merit that you've built a canopy that functions the way that you want it to, and I haven't yet. However, I have had a lot of experience building computers and modding cases for airflow (totally different "hot enclosure", I know).

In theory... and it's generally theoretical, since the friction caused by obstacles and fan positioning impacts the performance of each fan (much like friction in our plumbing impacts water flow)...

My plan is to "seal" the back. Meaning, generally close it off, but it won't be air tight.

Intake Only - having only intake fans will create positive pressure within the airspace of the canopy. The general advantage of this arrangement is that the positive pressure in the canopy is created with cooler air. The negative is that this creates back pressure on your intake fans as they need to force the air out of the exhaust (assisted by the fact that heat rises). You also have two fans pointing at each other, which (much like powerheads) creates disturbance, but doesnâ€™t dictate a flow.

Exhaust Only - having only exhaust fans will create negative pressure within the canopy. This could be an advantage when using very strong fans and exhausting very high heat. The negative is that this generally results in cooler outside air coming into the target area at a slower pace, and forward pressure is created for the fans as they work to pull cool air through the area.

Intake and Exhaust - an even flow situation in which (under appropriate conditions) the fans are feeding cool air in and exhausting hot air out at an even pace, resulting in optimal performance and maximum air flow for each set of fans. The drawback is that it's the highest cost configuration, and could be over kill.

One could use this option with one intake on one side, and one exhaust on the other. However, this will result in half of your bulbs getting cold air passed across them, and the other half getting hot air. Hot air will also rise to the top of the canopy, so you may end up sucking out cooler air, and trapping hotter air?

Overall - When I've cooled computer cases, even flow and positive flow configurations have always resulted in lower temperatures than negative flow. That being said, an even flow has been better than positive flow when the case is â€œsealed,â€� but positive flow has been better than even flow if the case is open (leaving the side off in hot months). In other words, just blowing cooler air in and letting everything blow out the side produces the best result, but might not be feasible for everyone.

Of course, all bets are off when the ambient temp of the room is the same or greater a temp than the canopy. In colder months, where you are heating the tank, you still want to cool your canopy to keep your bulbs cool. My plan is to put the exhaust fans on a 12v switch and turn them off when they arenâ€™t needed.

Itâ€™d be interesting to do what I did with computer cases, and test temperatures with different types of configurations.*


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Also I get nervous every time I mod the canopy, I'm not that good with tools 

-Zeke



Reefing Madness said:


> Yea, theres arguements on both sides, but I get ya.
> Canopy fan suggestions..? - Reef Central Online Community
> *I'd have a hard time disagreeing with you ,simply on the merit that you've built a canopy that functions the way that you want it to, and I haven't yet. However, I have had a lot of experience building computers and modding cases for airflow (totally different "hot enclosure", I know).
> 
> ...


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Looks like you did a fine job adding that last fan in there my man.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

It wouldn't be a big deal to cut or have someone cut a couple of 1" holes along one end of the canopy(and I might even put a dust filter
over the holes like a piece of that blue filter matt) and put one computer fan blowing out at the other end. And you might do the same/w the cabinet under the tank. No ventilation=heat build up if there is anything electrical in there.
You could also make the holes in either(both) ends of the back of the canopy...fan out pulling room air in on the other end.


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