# I think he know's Nothing about saltwater tank



## Joey (May 27, 2009)

I came accros this website on how to start a saltwater tank.What my eys have seen .I havent seen nothing this stupe... in my life now what do you guy's think about this guy .Go where it sais post and click on the SETTING UP A SALTWATER TANK. *o2
http://www.hobbyistparadise.com/my_aquarium_blog.html


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

agreed


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## Imaexpat2 (Jun 17, 2009)

I was expecting a real train wreck set of instructions...but suprising it was pretty decent until I read further down and saw that last little paragraph.



> OK we are all done. you will just have to supervise and feed your fish for the next 2 weeks. If your fish dies in this period it is normal plus the water cycle have een started. But just in case after 2 weeks buy another fish of your choice and see if it dies too or not. If it dies, it is not normal and you add more water conditioner to the water, check the water gravitation (salt levels), check the temperature in the tank and remove any plastic plants or plastic decorations as they could be toxic also.


*That just blows my mind.* He cant possibly be serious...can he?*o2

There is lots of good advice out there, some thats not so good and then stuff like this last paragraph that just defies all belief. Proof positive that no matter what you read on the 'net and no matter how knowledgable the person of the source is, ALWAYS RESEARCH IT AND VERIFY IT TO BE TRUE YOURSELF.

That technique for cycling a tank might have had some merit back in the 70's and early 80's (when the Dinosours roamed the earth still and Ramming was still considered a technique in Naval Warfare*#3) , but these days there are much better and far less cruel ways to cycle a tank.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

wow that guy sound likes my dad.


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## Joey (May 27, 2009)

thats what i thought i found this link in one of our members thread asking for help so lets tryand give him a hand so he dont do what that link sais lol but let him know were here for him and we will share our expirience with him.cuz for what i remember i was a noob in the hobby and didn't know anything about it.And now that i study our reef's enogh i think i know a lil somthing .But we never know everything thats for sure. lol you never know this hobby takes time and allot of love


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## ladyonyx (Apr 20, 2009)

No offense, but who in the world doesn't cycle a tank at all before putting fish in it?!?! Cycling with fish in a tank is so antiquated and horribly stressful for the fish; I thought fishless cycling was the only way to go these days. That was a scary thing to read


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## Joey (May 27, 2009)

ladyonyx said:


> No offense, but who in the world doesn't cycle a tank at all before putting fish in it?!?! Cycling with fish in a tank is so antiquated and horribly stressful for the fish; I thought fishless cycling was the only way to go these days. That was a scary thing to read


It is my freind it is a scary thing to read but we need to help this member and let him know what's the right way


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## Imaexpat2 (Jun 17, 2009)

> Cycling with fish in a tank is so antiquated and horribly stressful for the fish


Thats what I thought too, at least in this day and age.



> I thought fishless cycling was the only way to go these days.


Its not the only way to go but I sure thought we had progressed beyond that point, its not the dark ages anymore. I agree with you there are several alternatives that are far better and most definitely without debate less cruel.



> That was a scary thing to read


Yes it was. There were a few things in there that would get someone, especially a novice, into trouble. That last paragraph though was just the icing on the cake. Most of the stuff in the bullet format wasnt too bad though although I can find a few parts of it where I have a difference of opinion. But hey we are all going to have a difference of opinions from time to time on various things.



> thats what i thought i found this link in one of our members thread asking for help so lets tryand give him a hand so he dont do what that link sais


Most definitely!!! Its the least we owe the folks here. The way I see it...if a Novice here fails - then we have failed too. Maybe thats taking a little bit too much "ownership" as a member here, but thats how I feel about it to a large extent. Can you provide me a link to the thread that had this link in it via PM so I can go back and take a closer look at this thread?



> i remember i was a noob in the hobby and didn't know anything about it.And now that i study our reef's enogh i think i know a lil somthing .But we never know everything thats for sure. lol you never know this hobby takes time and allot of love


+ 1 to that! I know a lot but I realized a long time ago the more I learn the more I realize there is so much more that I may never learn or know. Guess thats just part of the "total package" when it comes to this hobby. Having a "few laps around the block" certianly goes a long way with the reading and research though. I have made a few mistakes in this hobby myself - it hurts, but I have learned from a lot of others mistakes as well - and thats a lot less painful and expensive too!


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## Imaexpat2 (Jun 17, 2009)

Delay my last Joey on that PM.


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## Shotgun (Mar 1, 2009)

agreed 

i cringed when i read the last paragraph... *J/D*


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## Joey (May 27, 2009)

Till today im still in shock with this guy that posted that online he better stik with his xbox stuff.But def ill be here to help our member out


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## drhank (Aug 3, 2009)

This is exactly what I would expect to see from a LFS owner who is clueless back in the mid 1950s.

The only thing else I can think of to say is that I hope no one listens to him about anything related to the aquarium hobby.

His ignorance is definitely showing!


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## Joey (May 27, 2009)

drhank said:


> This is exactly what I would expect to see from a LFS owner who is clueless back in the mid 1950s.
> 
> The only thing else I can think of to say is that I hope no one listens to him about anything related to the aquarium hobby.
> 
> His ignorance is definitely showing!


go to my next thread and check it out


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I can't see this link at work but from the replies I get the impression this is the cycling with fish that is poo hooed today.

Let me suggest an "alternative". Simply first start the tank with macro algaes. Hopefully in a refugium even just an in tank partition to seperate the macros from the corals/fish section. then let the tank set a week for the macros to condition the tank.

then add a single fish for which I prefer to use a male molly.

Then let the tank set another week with no food being added.

then start feeding a very very small amount like a single flake per day.

What happens is the macros prefer ammonia over nitrates when they are available.

So you get no (at a very short small .25-.5ppm) spike that last at most a few hours. NitrItes can spike 1ppm or so but again only for a day. but you will probably get an almost immediate nitrate spike up to 20ppm of so that will last for 3 weeks or so. Then drop to 0. A few weeks after that phosphates will drop also.

So even if you are cycling with a fish, you get no dangerous parameter spikes due to the actions of the macro algaes. Obviously an algae turf scrubber would have the same effect if the scrubber was seeded right from the start.

But that's just my "old school" idea.

Which as resulted in soft corals and fish in my tanks lasting for years and years. With no measureable nitrates or phosphates.

But all that's just worth .02 or so.


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## drhank (Aug 3, 2009)

Bob, I hate to be the one to tell you but your entire concept of how to cycle in a saltwater tank is antiquated. I'd really recommend that you look at Joey's thread. I've been around long enough to tell you that your thinking is circa 1960. Todays technology is live rock, skimmer and usually grocery store shrimp to bring the cycle through.

Your old school ideas are great for you but you would do first time saltwater folks a tremendous service if you would stop advocating your way to cycle in a salt water tank. Of course your tanks have lasted for years and years and you have no measurable nitrates and phosphates. How long did it take your tank to get that way? Using todays technology, you can have a tank completely cycled in with zero nitrates and phosphates in 8 to 12 weeks without harming a single fish.

Coming from a 60 year old, there has been more advancement in the hobby in the last 5 years than there ever was before. It's wonderful to tell tales of how we used to do it but putting things into proper perspective, you need to let the newbies know that this is how it used to be done. They need all the help they can get but it needs to be both correct and current.

I have no doubt that I could bring in a tank the way you suggest (but not without fish loss) and we'd both horrify folks if we told them about shoving the casualties under the substrate to push the cycle. Been there , done that, really though it's time to get with the times.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Dr. Hank

Checked google and you have awesome tanks. So those methods are working for you and newbies should be aware of them.

This 60 year old also has a simple additional idea. Just start the system with a refugium with chaetomorphia macro algae right from the start.

I am sure you don't disagree with that.

After all in the last 5 years more and more people have added refugiums and less and less have dsb's.

So now the newbies have an additional datum in running aquariums.

Oh yea and BTW. unmeasureable nitrates and phosphates in less then 8 weeks. And dern near no ammonia/nitrIte spikes ever. Even when adding a dead shrimp (to bait bristle worms), or new fish are added in addition the initial "cycling" of the tank.

still just my .02


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## drhank (Aug 3, 2009)

I agree Bob. Folks are learning about lots of live rock and great skimmers. We both remember when the "Berlin System" was new. Now it's the standard. You bet a fuge will do it. I'm heading toward a Turf Scrubber next.

Just trying to point out that you can't sell these young pups old tricks. You saw the reaction. Have a good one.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

drhank said:


> I agree Bob. Folks are learning about lots of live rock and great skimmers. We both remember when the "Berlin System" was new. Now it's the standard. You bet a fuge will do it. I'm heading toward a Turf Scrubber next.
> 
> Just trying to point out that you can't sell these young pups old tricks. You saw the reaction. Have a good one.


Ain't that the truth?

I though a turf Scrubber was old school from over a decade ago.

Perhaps we'll just set back and watch the pendulum swing back.












again.


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## ladyonyx (Apr 20, 2009)

I feel that it's very useful to know what used to be done so you know you have options. But most of these older options are better for more experienced aquarists so they know what some of the potential pitfalls are. That's why fool proof methods like fishless cycling using table shrimp are so popular, especially for people who are new to the salt water hobby. Don't think we don't like hearing about the way things used to be done. I certainly find it informative


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## rynox77 (Aug 11, 2009)

> Interesting Facts - Clown fish are Bisexual.


Choosing your fish/fish/new tank
:huh:


I would describe mine Percula Clowns as more "bicurious". LOL


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

rynox77 said:


> Choosing your fish/fish/new tank
> :huh:
> 
> 
> I would describe mine Percula Clowns as more "bicurious". LOL


Is this in the right thread? 

Clownfish and I think some other damselfish are Hermaphrodite. With one type of clownfish reported to be sequential. Which means as they mature they become an active male then an active female. But cannot go back. So a family around an anemone would be the juvies outside and two mature clowns in the anemone. The strongest is the female the second strongest the male. When the female dies the male becomes an active female and the strongest juvie becomes an active male. If the male dies the the strongest juvie becomes the active male.

my .02


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## rynox77 (Aug 11, 2009)

I understand all that. I just thought it was strange to characterize clowns as "bisexual". It suggests similarities between human behavior and fish behavior when no such similarity exists.


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