# Noob starting - what I have wrong? what I have right?



## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi everyone,
Noob with a long post folks, *pc

I have been getting all the items needed for my new 29g FW planted setup. 
I thought I will post my plan and later progress, of the build to get inputs from everyone.
Please let me know if I need to change anything, avoid some wrong items, etc in the plan and later.
Fell free to correct me, as I am still learning most of this stuff.


*Plan*
(I have not started to put anything in the tank yet - will start tomorrow)

The main aim I have is to have a well planted(meaning dense, green and healthy) tank with colorful and lively fish
(safety and health of fish being foremost to anything else though)


*Tank and Light:*
Aqueon 29g - 30"L X 18"H X 12"D
Aqueon 30" hood - with 17Watt 24" T8 full sprectrum light 
+ I get some ambient daylight in the room for 6 hours
I have a 1.5inch thick strip of polystyrene(the one which breaks into small white beads if you break it) as a buffer between the tank and stand


I know the light is low but right now I will not be able to spend anymore :-(


*Substrate:*
Eco Complete - 20 lbs
Pool Pilter Sand - I have a 50 lbs bag
Driftwood - one approx 10"L(being soaked in a for few days now)
Stones - some amount of rocks and pebbles I picked up from freshwater areas (did vinegar test and but need to dip in hot water)
Rocks - lot of medium to large sized pieces of slate rock and some unknown rock(from a garden landscaping co.)


*Filters and other equipment:*
Fluval C4 and Sponge filter 4
150 watt heater
airstones


*Other:*
Prime
Flourish and Flourish Excel
Life Spectrum Thera A+ small pellets .5mm
Ammonia from Ace hardware(for fishless cycle)


*Plants:*
(already have them in a tub anchored with stones)

Amazon Sword(small), Green Cabomba, Baby tears, Anubias(narrow leaf), Roseafolia, Foxtail green, another 2 plants are dead.
(my bad should have started the tank the weekend but some stuff got delayed in shipment)


*Fish:*
(not yet purchased)
I liked the following ones, in no specific order - need to decide on the ones I can get and which will also will fit in this setup
(little overstocking maybe, mabe not? but compatible, happy and no fighting)

Honey Gouramis, Cardinal Tetras - not finding near any LFS or they seem to be expensive, Guppies, Mollies(white, black, dalmatian), Bristlenose pleco or Rubber lip pleco, Harlequin Rasboras, Bolivian Rams, some shrimp?
Siamese algae eater - if I end up with a algae problem


*Water Readings out of the tap*(un treated)
API Kit - liquid 
pH 7.4 - 7.6
Ammonia - .25 ppm
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0


Sorry for my long post, I have several questions - any feedback would be great - thanks

:fish9:


Does the stand seem okay? It doesn't flex or bend if I apply weight to it(200lbs - me *whistle* )
Is the buffer for the stand okay? 
I am also planning to get a water alarm if I happen to have a water leak, I stay in a apartment and water damage maybe a expensive issue.
Am I being paranoid?


I think I went overboard with the sponge filter 4, I should have got a 3 or 2; should I run it? or just leave it out and use it if the main filter fails?
seems to take up lots of space


So would all the slate rocks impact my pH negatively?
the Dirftwood has been soaked in for almost 10 days, still decolors the water - is it okay if I put this in the tank?


Will running the C4, sponge and an airstone result in too much of a current in the water? run only 2 of them? suggestions please


background - I wanted it to be a blue or black one - I have seen some samples in LFS - how do these work - they have self adhesive or we need to tape them up?
I am assuming they are laminated to be water proof. Any DIY stuff which has worked out for someone?


I am going to add a small layer of Eco on the bottom, then add rocks - my idea is to have a "stream" with "cliff" on the sides with ledges - not sure how bad or good it is going to turnout.
Then add 1 inch Eco - and top off with Sand 2 inch - some rocks would be left exposed.

Is this okay? I dont want the current to keep moving the sand and breaking the "cliff" all the time, wanted to know your experiences - if it is not going to stay up - I will not take this route.



*Thanks for reading through...bring on the feedback please!*



I will add more pictures in a day or so and updates to the setup.

*Stand with polystyrene buffer( polystyrene is covered in black plastic sheet)*




*Driftwood*




*Plants - top middle and bottom right - you can see the ones dead*




*Some of the stones*


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I like your approach - very meticulous and thoughtful. You are right on track.

My comments would be that the API master test kit has once again let someone down. Knowing your water hardness would be invaluable for your fish choices, and that expensive but limited kit doesn't test that. If you go with mollies, you have a fish that needs hard water to flourish (actually, to survive), while harlequins, Bolivian rams and cardinals prefer soft water.

I paint the backs of my tanks with acrylic craft paint. It comes off easily with a razor blade if I want to change it, but provides a good flat background that doesn't take away from the fish or plants.


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## letsgowildcats (Mar 30, 2012)

Only thing I'd suggest is cycling the tank fishless. You seem to have done your homework though and are familiar with the nitrogen cycle. Also, don't add all the fish in at once, do it gradually over a few days. 

As for the drift wood, boiling it will help release some of the tanins if at all possible

As for your background, I found that most aquarium backgrounds are expensive, especially if you just want a solid color. I used some black poster board from walmart for dirt cheap.

Also, AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor is a very useful aquarium calculator, it will tell you fairly accurately what all is compatible, if you are overstocked, or if your filtration is adequate.

Hope I could be of some help!


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Noob starting - more pictures added*

*@navigator black* - thanks for your inputs...let me try to get the API kit for Hardness(both) - meanwhile this weekend will visit Petco/Petsmart to get reading of my tap water for now. Until hard water readings no Mollies on the stocking plan  
So as I understood now - mollies need hard water; but will BR and Harlequin be stressed in hard water? No way I can keep them if I have hard water?
I really like the BR and Harlequin.
I don't think I have the nerves to use a blade on the glass to remove it, if I have to remove it later - knowing me - I will scratch it. 


*@letsgowildcats *- yes, my plan is to cycle fishless. Once nitrates start peaking - will add 3 female guppies and leave it for a week and then go from there - what do you say?
Okay I still have some polystyrene left, let me try some DIY.
Boiled the driftwood for hours yesterday night - man does this thing leech tanins - grateful I boiled it.
Yes I am using Aqadvisor for weeks now - it is like fantasy football but for stocking(I must sound crazy) - I have used it a inane number of times just to see what I can do for stocking.
Thanks for the suggestion though.


Appreciate the inputs from both. 


As mentioned - more photos and log of the tank build.


*Yeserday:*
Did final clean of the sand, stones, boiled driftwood etc and finally put everything in the tank. 

*Lessons *
- planting the tank was more effort than I had thought
- carrying water in a carpetted floor is no fun
- Pool filter sand must be the best topping - natural look, easy to clean before putting in

*Today:*
Topped off water, started filters, heater and air stone. Will do water test and add Ammonia tonight or Friday night(I was waiting for it clear up a bit). 
Will post updates soon...



*Pictures: 
Let me know how it looks? awful? passable?*
*How is it?*

*Decided to go with a different stand - I was afraid the old will get top heavy*




*Eco-Complete - with the "river" layout*




*Yesterday - this is where I left it*




*How it looks right now*




*Left side*




*Right side*


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## LeopardSpot (Jul 30, 2012)

That's looking really cool so far! Can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

So hi everyone...

*updates on the cycle:*

Started it Saturday with all 0 values then added NH3 to 5 ppm, followed by 72 hours of "rest"

Started adding more NH3 to maintain 4 - 5 ppm from Monday.

*Today my readings are:*

NH3 - 2 ppm
Nitrite - 2 ppm
Did not test for Nitrate

Will dose NH3 to bring to 4 ppm before I go to bed.
I was surprised at the Nitrite readings so quickly. 

*Couple of questions:*
- I am losing water by condensation - should I top off from tap untreated?
if I treat it with Prime - was thinking my readings are going to be inaccurate.
if I do not treat it - the chlorine would kill the bacteria right?
What should I do?


And I started seeing lot of snails in the tank - from the plants I presume, though the online retailer said snail free - anyway - what should I do?
I was picking them out, should I continue? they looked like pond snails - but were very tiny so I could be wrong.
Wouldn't the NH3 kill them?


Thanks for reading...not getting lot of feedback though - either I am on the right path or my setup looks awful so people are like ahem! 

:fish5:


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

glog said:


> So hi everyone...
> 
> *updates on the cycle:*
> 
> ...


First off, let me say I love your landscaping job. Looks really nice and natural...good job! But I would be careful "stacking" rocks..a fish could knock them loose...you don't want squished fishies! (Might be better to "glue" them together with silicone.) Beneficial bacteria does not live in the water column, but rather on the substrate, filter media, rocks, etc.
Yes, untreated tap water with chlorine/chloromines could possibly kill some or all of the bacteria. You could treat a bucket of water with Prime and keep it on hand to top off any water that you lose to condensation. On the Prime label it states that it can be safely used during cycling and the values of ammonia, etc will still show using the API test kit. I've used it while a tank was cycling with no problems.

Yep, pond snails hitchhiking on plants...they seem to appear out of nowhere! Not sure if the ammonia will kill them (anyone?? i really don't know), but they breed pretty easily and they do help keep algae in check. Keep us posted! Looking forward to updates.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

Great looking layout and I was also thinking you will want to glue those stones together.

Get a couple of assassin snails which will eradicate the pest snail population over several weeks. These snails spend a lot of their time in the substrate so you won't see them everywhere like the pond snails and they breed very slowly - won't become a nuisance. They're nicer looking, too, IMO.


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## Hawk1018 (Apr 12, 2012)

that is an excellent aquascape....I love it.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Really cool aquascape, congrats and good luck


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

looks great! keep up the good work and reading. Excellent planning.Counts for a lot.You are WELL on your way! Enjoy.


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## BSCfootball16 (Aug 8, 2012)

The tank looks great so far!! Can't wait to see what fish you choose!


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's inputs and positive feedback...!!! :fish5:

@lonedove55 and @SueD
- yes after putting it up, that was the first thing which occurred to me as well dang I should have glued it - atleast for the left side; The right is not really stacked though it looks like it is, it more of a stones scattered in a line. The left, I am thinking now - have some aquarium safe silica(?) glue I can use that - or lower the stacking. 
Thanks for the input, maybe not immediate I will change this sooner than later.

Lessons for me:
- I think having the levels looks nice but I think it is going to be more difficult to maintain ie. clean etc
- too thick substrate(only in some places though) might be an issue with anaerobic bacteria

Anyway learning stuff, it is slightly different when I read about it as compared to when I experience it. 


*To the readings now:*

My yesterdays Nitrite reading was 1 ppm and not 2 ppm.


*For today*
NH3 dropped to - 1 ppm
Nitrite - 5 ppm
Nitrate - 5 ppm
pH - 8.0
Temp - 81F

Added less NH3 today, just to bring it to - 2 ppm

looks good so far, fingers crossed.

*Other Observations*
- Lots of my plants are having dead leaves - hopefully they will grow back.
- As suggested by lonedove55 topped off tank with treated water.
- Water color is a bit "yellow-brown" now - driftwood leaching.
- removing snails and doing a "sudden death" - not happy about it though - but again I do not want a pond snail takeover on my hands. Planning to buy assassin snails as well later.


Will post pictures and some of my stocking thoughts tomorrow.
Thanks for reading....


*w3


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I haven't read every word in the thread, but did you test the rocks? some will alter ph and may cause issues. The way to test them is put drops of vinegar on them. If they smoke you'll need to take them out of there.

Another way to tell since they have been in there a while is test your tap. If values are the same as your tank you should be okay.

Tanks looks good though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Love the tank

Looks to my like you are doing many things right.

Keep us posted.


edit : oh yes IMHO just top off with untreated tap water.

my .02


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It looks really good. I like the aquascaping.

But bob's trolling again with the untreated tap water line. Don't worry, you'll get used to him.

You need to know if you have chloramines in your municipal water. If you do, a tiny amount of conditioner will neutralize that problem, cheaply, easily, and effectively. It's less effort to safely treat water than it is to try to figure out why people post such things.


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the comments...

Been a bit busy lately - but I have been doing regular test and Ammonia additions for the cycle. 

@jrman83 - yes I had tested the rocks with vinegar, no reaction. My pH is around 8, both the tap and tank


@navigator black - I have used treated water to top off. How do I tell if the tap water has Chlorine or Chloramine?
I am not able smell any of it, atleast.
*

Before I talk about the cycle and stocking, had to ask everyone this - *
*Is my tank about to break or is this normal?*

As you can see below photos - the center portion of the frame does not meet my hood cover. This is similar on the front and back. Not sure if this was like this earlier, I just noticed it. Reduce the water a little, not sure what to do...
How do I know if this is just the frame or glass or both.

Can you please help? this is a new tank - 29 G Aqueon (glass)
I can get better pics if needed.


*c/p*






*Readings:*
Today my Ammonia went to 0 ppm but my Nitrites still holding at 5ppm.
Added Ammonia to bring it to 2 ppm, waiting for the Nitrite eating bacteria
*ZZZZ

*Stocking:*
Would have really liked an Angelfish but after reading the forum decided it is for a different time with a different tank(bigger)

Schooling Fish - H.Rasaboras - 5
Bottom - BN or Rubberlip Pleco - 1
Juli or similar Cory - 3
Other
Guppy - 3 (1 m 2 f)
Honey Gourami or Bolivian or Electric Blue ram - 3
Molly - 3 (only if I have hard water - will test this soon)
Red wag(?) Platy - 3

This puts me around 127% per aqadvisor. I think I need to take one or two species out. Any suggestions? 

Do you think this stocking combination provides a setup with nice activity and colors? I was looking at barbs and tetras but got confused since there were so many different varieties...

Any suggestions to change the ones on the list and replace with something else?



*And a pic of how my tank looks now:*




:fish-in-a-bag:


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Regarding bow; can't promise it won't break, but I've seen tanks do that before.They were fine.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Looking good.

the bow is normal. 

Just to make sure I understand you are or have dosed 3-5ppm ammonia and in a day or two it was under 1ppm.

my .02


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

@coralbandit and @beaslbob - regd bow - thanks for the comments - since this is my first tank was not sure if this is normal or I am going to have a disaster on my hands. Your comments kinda mitigate my fears....will wait for others to chip in as well.


@beaslbob - yes, I started with 5 pmm and after nitrite spike, I am dosing around 2-3 ppm - within 18-24hrs goes to 0 ppm. But my Nitrite still holding at 5+


*Will wait for other's comments on the bow and stocking. especially the bow*

Thanks for reading.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

re: stocking - you've listed three types of live bearers, guppies, mollies and platys. Do you have plans for the fry? Because you will have lots of fry if you have male and female of each.


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

@SueD - I was thinking of only getting males other than the guppies. Maybe a 10 gallon once I have fry would help, but you are right - I need to find to way to give away or sell or expand to a bigger tank for the "extra" fry once they grow. And even if I leave the fry in the community tank, the ones surviving will increase the crowding in the tank. 


Let me see if any of my local LFS will buy them either for cash or store credit before I buy female guppies. If not I will stick only to buying males.

Do you think I would have a problem of aggression if I stick with all males for the liver bearers?


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

Not generally. I started with 1 male and 1 female fancy guppy in a 5 gallon tank a few years ago. I was quickly overrun! I then set up a 10 gal and moved all of the females there and kept the 5 gallon for just males, moving any males from the 10 back to the 5 as I could identify them. At one time, (and I do not recommend this), I had well over 20 males in the 5 gallon and there was no aggression at all, no damaged tails. Fortunately, I seemed to always get more females.

But I will say that at one of the local fish stores near me - not a chain store, but not where I would buy my fish - I had noticed a tank with several males with tattered tails. I don't know if it was poor stock, poor handling or a little bit of fighting going on. It's just something I have never had with mine.

Guppies are a fun and easy first fish to have, but they don't call them the million fish for nothing. Unless you want to experiment and try to breed different lines and have the space to do that, I would stick with males only. You can get really colorful ones with beautiful tails. The breeding part gets old really fast and there is no end in sight once you have 1 male and 1 female.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would think it is a better bet that the hood is not made to such a tight spec that it probably wouldn't mate up perfectly anyway.

If you are dosing with ammonia and already reading nitrites, stop daily dosing. Go to dosing every 4th day and only half the amount of what your daily doses were. If you go to the fishless cycling thread stuck to the top of the "new to" forum and read the first post you'll get the full info.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Love the layout, great job for the first tank.

On your stocking, with your ph I would leave out the rams, they prefer softer water. A slight bow would be normal but if your worried about it you can lower you water some and silicone a brace across the top like in bigger tanks. if you use glass for this it won't interfer with your light.


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## glog (Jul 17, 2012)

@jrman83 and @susankat - thanks for your inputs, not sure if I will be able to do the brace myself. Right now I think I will wait and watch as many have mentioned a slight bow is normal. Will post pics later this week to see if it has worsened, then get more inputs. If it is getting bad - I can buy new tank itself maybe a bow front this time? what do you think? wait and watch okay based on the current bow? (as in the pics)

Appreciate the inputs.

@jrman83 - Actually I only dosed Nh3 to maintain 2ppm after nitrites started showing up. As your suggestion will switch to lower levels addition only on 4th day.

Question I had was - even in-between if I have 0 NH3 should I not add to maintain a low level 1-2 ppm? I was in the impression the NH3 eating bacteria will die off after 24-32 hrs of 0 readings.

Thanks

Yesterday did 5 ga treated PWC just to bring down Nitrites

Today my reading - 0 NH3 for 2 days in a row
Now my nitrites are at - 0.25-0.5 ppm(yesterday after the PWC it was still at 5+)
Nitrate - 40-80 ppm

Today just added a little NH3 to bring to 0.5-1 ppm - was not sure on this since jrman83's inputs was for not adding it. I should have not have? I was afraid continuous days of 0 NH3 would kill off the 1st bacteria.

Thanks for reading and waiting for inputs so I can do changes accordingly.


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