# All gone wrong since adding new fish



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

ok quick rundown,

60 liter tank,
carbon and spnge filter,
plenty of oxygen,
temps 26/27

fish
1 molly
2 raindow fish
1 catfish
2 angelfish

they have been in the tank for about 4/5 weeks with no problems,

saturday just gone i got 3 guppys from a different pet store and added them to the tank,
by monday 2 guppys were dead the other one swimming fine,
1 of my angel fish had a really red gill and my molly was at the bottom on its side, still alive, 
so after looking around it seemed like ammonia but i tested the water and all was ok,

went to my usual pet shop yesterday and they tested the water for me and all was still ok, got a new molly,

this morning both my angel fish are dead, the new molly is at the bottom on its back still alive and my 2 rainbow fish are now acting strange,

i have added, "generalTonic" (advised by pet man as he was also confused,
he has gave me a possible answer but i wanted to see what others have to say before i put the thought in everyone elses minds,

there is a reason i have to have this tank working but i dont want to lay my sod story on you all, i just need spome help please:animated_fish_swimm


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

1 of my rainbow fish have just started spinning around and flopping everywhere, on the floor, of the pump and everything


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Have you tested the water for ammonia and nitrites? If I had to guess, I'd say you've got a nitrite issue going on, given the timespan. I don't care for fish store testing as most do so with test strips and they are well known for inaccurate results. They also tend to say "within range" and to me that is just not enough info.

I don't know what general tonic is, but doesn't sound good. I would do a 50% water change ASAP. Re-evaluate from there.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

i am using api freshwater master test kit

ph
7.5 (same as pet shop)

ammonia
0ppm / 0.15ppm

nitrate NO2
0 ppm

nitrate NO3
looks like around 40ppm / 80ppm

generalTonic is (pet guy advised it)
TetraMedica GeneralTonic -Aquaristic shop


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would do the water change for sure. Hard to say what you've got going on. Has anything been used around the tank that may have had harsh chemicals in it?


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

no all has been fine until the weekend, not added any decor, temps and tests have stayed stable, tank in same place it always is, 

if i just new what it was i could sort it but i am stuck,

1 rainbow still spinning and bouncing of things and my other rainbow is trying hard to stay at the top,

1 molly still on back, other still on the bottom aswell, but the 1 keeps trying to get up to swim but gets so far and plumits,

i have taken the guppy out,


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Is this tank a 60L or a 60 gal? if its a 60litre its way to many fish.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah, good catch. I was thinking 60g.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

60 liter,

i only had 9 and thay all small fish, the pet shop guy said the amount of fish was fine,

both my rainbows are now on the bottom of the tank,

for the water change, shll i add anymore tapsafe or just plain water??


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

That is only 15 gals of water, the rainbows and angels will get to big for the tank. You need to take the rainbows back to lfs as they told you wrong. Depending on the catfish if its a cory they need company of at least 2 more. IF the molly doesn't die if its a female you could be looking at a lot of babies.

The tank isn't cycled and having to many fish is causing the problems. When you do water changes you need to add something to remove chlorine and chloramines from the water before adding to the tank and make sure its the same temp. Your best bet would be to return all fish and cycle the tank before adding anything to it. Or be prepared to do a lot of water changes. Get yourself your own test kit as most places will tell you water is fine when it isn't. You can already see that they gave you bad advice by telling you those fish will fit. When you buy fish you take into account of how big they get normally. Fish don't grow to size of tank, the body might stop growing but the insides don't causing a slow and painful death.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

they all so small at the moment so i thought they would be ok for a couple of years before upgrading,

i have a test kit,
api freshwater mater test kit,

levels are
ph
7.5 (same as pet shop)

ammonia
0ppm / 0.15ppm

nitrate NO2
0 ppm

nitrate NO3
looks like around 40ppm / 80ppm

both the mollys are male, 
lost 1 rainbow about 30 mins ago, the other still lying at the bottom of the tank

currently left in the tank is
2 molly (bottom of tank upside down)
2 loach (seem fine)
1 rainbow (bottom of tank upside down)
1 catfish (seems ok, been in since day 1)

lost
2 guppys, removed the other and returned to the shop today, (was new the weekend when all the troubles began)
1 rainbow
2 angel fish


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Rainbows will grow fast and you need to think of upgrading in just a couple of months if they survive.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

with you saying my tank was not cycled i decided to do another ammonia test, 

it is spiking, currently, 0.50 / 1.0ppm

yesterday it was virtually 0,

should i get ammoniaLock? do water change and then hope for the best?


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Thats how petshops make money.They sell you too many fish all at once,and then they start dying.Then you have to spend more money on meds,and the employees telling you to get more.Susan is right.If the fish live,you need to upgrade or you will continue to have issues.If they dont make it then you can do a fishless cycle,and have it ready for the proper number and sized fish.


----------



## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

well, rainbows but wat kind of rainbows ?? 

i dont think fish die all of that sudden if its a crowding issue 

if there is a dead fish it will automatically spike the ammonia 

also if you put in too much food or feed them more than twice when they are those many then also there would be ammonia spike 

and .............. well how is the corycat doing ?


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

No matter what rainbows, it was still to crowded and yes it can start having problems all of a sudden.
What kind of loaches? You didn't mention those in the first post.

Looking at it this way, you started out with a 15 gal tank (60l) after you add gravel and any decorations you are actually down to about 10 or 11 gal. You put in to many fish that will get to big for the tank and would need at least a 50 gal (189l) before a year is up due to fish growth. Just for the fish you started out with to keep them healthy. Angels are fast growers and will get to 6+ without the fins if given enough room to grow in. If the loaches you have are clown loaches they get 12 inches and just about as fat. 
The 1 inch per gal is just a myth and really would only work for small bodied fish at full growth like guppies. Mollies given the right condition can and will get 3 inches and are a fat fish when healthy. Most petshops when they sell rainbows its usually the larger species as the smaller ones aren't that popular for the general population and is usually special ordered. You still didn't say what type of catfish, if its a cory that size tank would work but needs company but not until the tank straightens out.

As for the ammonia, do water changes when it gets up to .50, next will be nitrite spikes which can be just as harmful.


----------



## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

Somethings not quite adding up for me. If the tank was stocked this heavily 4/5 weeks ago, why would the ammonia just now be spiking. I would have expected that to be within 2-3 weeks and by this point would have high nitrites if the cycle hadn't stabilized yet. 

Any thoughts on this from you guys?


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

not sure what type they are so will get some pics for you,

they have now all gone appart from the catfish and the 2 loaches, i know the loaches are not clown loaches, they are kind of grey all over but you can see some black running through there insides,
(got them the same time as the second molly when the pet shop man told me the water was ok)

my catfish is virtualy black with black spots and all the fins have a bright white outline and the whiskers are also pure white,

will get you some pics a bit later,

i done a 20% water change last night, trated with TapSafe, checked the ammonia just and it is still at .50ppm so am going to do another water change today,

should i do 20 or 50% change?

i have been looking into ammo-lock, do you think it is worth a try,


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

here are a couple of pics, 

loach approx inch and half

catfish approx 2 inch long

molly approx 2 inch (passed away)

rainbow fish approx 2inch long (passed away)


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

just ran my tests as i done another 20% water change,

ammonia
0.25ppm / 0.50ppm

nitrite NO2
5.0 ppm

nitrate NO3
40ppm / 80ppm

so it looks like my ammonia is coming down very slowly but my Nitrite is spiking really high,

is it worth getting nitra-zorb as recommened by the book for high nitrite levels?

i just dont want to loose anymore


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

nitrites spiking are good in one way because it means you are closer to the end of the cycle but they are bad for fish so you probably need to do a 50% water change every day to keep them under control. I don't recommend any products to remove nitrites or ammonia as they may just cause more problems.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

ok will do a 50% water change tomorrow and not add any chemicals,

what next after the nitrite spiking, is that it??


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

sharingdoodles said:


> what next after the nitrite spiking, is that it??


Yep, pretty much. You will then get nitrates but they are not so deadly for fish and will be kept under control with weekly water changes. Live plants also consume nitrates.

To understand more about it read about cycling your aquarium and the nitrogen cycle.
Filtration and the Nitrogen Cycle, by Les Pearce


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

When ammonia and nitrite are 0, then maybe that is it for your cycle. If your stocking level is still too high you could still potentially keep a persistant ammonia value.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> If your stocking level is still too high you could still potentially keep a persistant ammonia value.


True, what fish are left now?


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

1 catfish,
2 loaches

they currently seem fine fingers crossed,

would it be worth adding a live plant or to for the long term future?

got be a bigger bucket just so going to get some water ready for the 50% change,

i already done a 20% this morning so shall i leave the 50% untill tomorrow??

thanks for all your help so far guys/girls, it really is appreciated


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

snail said:


> Yep, pretty much. You will then get nitrates but they are not so deadly for fish and will be kept under control with weekly water changes. Live plants also consume nitrates.
> 
> To understand more about it read about cycling your aquarium and the nitrogen cycle.
> Filtration and the Nitrogen Cycle, by Les Pearce


thanks for the link, made me realise a few missing steps, 
after reading that i think a couple of small living plants would be a good idea, what do you guys think?
there is not much in my tank, just a small rock formation to 1 side and then a bigger but more spread out rock formation closer to the middle, sounds a lot but max height is about 3 inch high


----------



## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

sharingdoodles said:


> just ran my tests as i done another 20% water change,
> 
> ammonia
> 0.25ppm / 0.50ppm
> ...


I'm still a bit confused how you went 4/5 weeks with near zero ammonia and zero nitrites and then in literally 24 hours (from your test results) you got an ammonia spike and then off-th chart nitrites. As a note, 5 ppm is the max on the API nitrite test card, so you may very well be much higher.

This level of nitrite is often lethal to fish. If I were you, I would be doing 50% water changes twice daily to get it down ASAP. Since you are changing a large amount of the water, try to make sure it matches the temperature of the tank as best as possible and put it in slowly so you don't shock the fish. I put mine in using an 8oz cup so it takes 10-15 mins to add it all in (I typically change 30% of a 29 gallon)

You want to get those nitrite readings down below 1 ppm as quickly as possible and the best way I know to do that is with large water changes. There are chemicals out there that will probably help you, but some can be hard on your fish and you don't have much time to figure out which ones are best and go buy them. I would go with the water changes since they are safest and you can do them right now. The other nice thing about water changes is that it will remove other possible water chemistry issues that you may not even be aware of.

Also, make sure you're feeding very lightly. You may even want to take a break from feeding for a couple days until you get the water chemistry under control. Fish can easily go a day or two without food (and often go a week or more without problems).

Best of luck to you. Keep us updated.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

reading another issue similar to mine on the net a guy had his tank all running ok for a few weeks so added more fish but that caused the cycle to restart as it was to many fish at one time before the cycle had finished properly, he loas all the fish,

so i have my bucket and going to do a 50% water change and then re-run the tests later tonight when it has settled a bit and see what i can do from there,

fingers and toes crossed


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

keep us posted.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

water is in bucket and been treated, so will leave it for an hour or so just to make sure the temps are stady then make the swap,

is it worth checking my levels for the new water?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Always good to test your water coming out of your tap. Many people have some level of ammonia already in their water, which can play havoc on a unestablished tank.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

already tested,

ammonia 0 / 0.25ppm

Nitrite 0pm (real pale blue)


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

ok, i have finished my 50% change,

ammonia reading approx 0.25

nitrite around 2.0 /5.0

so both have lowered slightly, going to get another change ready and let it sit over nigh ready for the morning,

total 70% water change today, 20 this morning, 50 just,


*** do you know what type of catfish i have???? ***


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That's good.

Your catfish is definitely a corydora, but the lighting in the pic is not good enough for me. He is not green is he?


----------



## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

See that's what I'm talking about 

Those are dwarf neon rainbow fish and they can be housed like 4 or 5 in a 10 gallon 

They get to a max of 2.5 inches 

The problem being if they are both male they will fight and get stressed 

The one in the pic is a male one it has red trim and females have orange trim  

As I know the stocking is fine the issue is with some thing else


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

There have been 11 fish in this tank, two of which were angels.


----------



## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

The post says there are 6 fish then he added 3 guppies and 2 died in 2 days 

So makes it 6+3-2 am I missing something  

And I used to have guppies long back and guppies from big chains like Petsmart.. They die for no reason  I loved guppies but thts when I stopped getting them


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

all i have left is 

1 catfish, still dont know what type this on is
2 loach , well they look like the thing below lol


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The second pic is that what you call a loach. It isn't. It looks like featherfin syno.

Does it look like this


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

the pic i posted is what my 2 loaches (so called) look like lol


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The cory is an emerald cory. And no its not loaches those are synos which can get 6 inches.


----------



## sharingdoodles (Jan 12, 2011)

my 2 little things look like this, mine is first pic in the set below, he not green, that was treatment in the water









second pic down, is my other


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

tinman said:


> The post says there are 6 fish then he added 3 guppies and 2 died in 2 days
> 
> So makes it 6+3-2 am I missing something
> 
> And I used to have guppies long back and guppies from big chains like Petsmart.. They die for no reason  I loved guppies but thts when I stopped getting them



Your missing the loaches that weren't mentioned in the first post. which in actuallity are synos. so thats 6+3+2=11


----------

