# QT



## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm going to start my 29G planted Biocube tank after the holidays. 

I want to get my plants & fish from the same place, except it's 1hr from my apt.

Do I have to get water params in order in the QT before I get fish to put in there? It's a 10G basic QT.

My plan is to put the plants in the tank with substrate & driftwood for a bit, then the fish.

I understand the plants won't need a "cycle" necessarily, but want to make sure everything is in order before a put a few fish in there. 

My stocking will be:

6 Neon Tetras
1 Cherry Shrimp
3 Cherry Barbs
6 Neon Danios

Can all these fit comfortably in my 10G QT & stay there until I can periodically place them in the tank...not all at once, but little at a time?


Thoughts?


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Plants won't need any sort of a cycle. Just put them in and let them grow. 
The real problem, if I understand you, is that the QT won't be cycled , or have any material from a cycled tank in it. It is a fish tank, like any other, and unless the beneficial bacteria are there, as soon as you add fish, you will get ammonia, then nitrites. The plants will absorb some of the ammonia, if there is enough of them, but they don't seem to do much about nitrites. You will need to do daily water changes to try and keep that many fish alive that long.

If I were approaching this, I would set both tanks up, and plant the tanks as heavily as finances allow. I would add 3 danios, which are probably your toughest fish, to each tank to cycle them. I would test water parameters with an API test kit and change 50% water every day that ammonia or Nitrite got above 1ppm. Once both tanks finished cycling (0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, some buildup of nitrates) I would move the danios all into the main tank and buy the barbs and put them in QT (from now on use the QT as a QT.. at first you had nothing in the main tank to protect from a disease anyway). I would keep them in QT a few weeks, then move them to the main tank. Then last the neon tetras, and maybe the shrimp at the same time. 2 weeks in QT, then into the main.
If it were a normal tank you were moving them into I would say to move the filter from the 10G into the main once the QT was done being used, and to store the 10G dry (never planting it either).. this way the tank's filter stays full of bacteria, and the tank is out of sight. Since you cant, I would leave the 10G setup with something in it... maybe make a little RCS breeder out of it, though then it would stink to use it as QT again.. Ghost shrimp?

BTW, You could add several shrimp to your list, if you desired. You can fit ~ 10shrimp/gallon. They're not a very heavy bioload.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

If I am unable to get a hold of used filter media from an established tank, how can I go about seeding my QT to prepare it / cycle it...so it's ready for fish?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You could do a fishless cycle, but that will take 2-4wks (estimate). I understand buying all those fish at once if it is that far to the store. I think you will be cycling two tanks at the same time, if neither are already cycled. Putting that many in one or the other would be very risky, so you'll probably need to sort of split up the load.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You can seed a fishless cycle with raw seafood from your grocery store, fish food, or straight ammonia. I'm using some raw shrimp to cycle my ten gallon.

To speed up the cycle you could use Tetra SafeStart but I'm warning you - in no way will this product ever replace good old time and water testing! DO NOT use SafeStart then immediately add fish.

Unfortunately, this is going to be hard because you're going to have to inevitably make multiple trips to your LFS.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Unfortunately, this is going to be hard because you're going to have to inevitably make multiple trips to your LFS.


Although I'd like to put my substrate & plants in my DT right away, it's not looking good.

Sooo, I'm going to do a regular cycle on my DT & my QT shortly after Christmas. That way, I'll have both tanks cycled by the time I get the plants & fish.

After reading this, would you still say I'd be having to make multiple trips? If so, why?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like a better plan. Safer.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I would still say you're going to need multiple trips. One for the substrate and plants and SOME fish, the second for the last few fish. Personally, I would make 3 trips - one to get substrate, plants, etc., then once your tanks are cycled with the substrate and plants another for the initial batch of fish, then a third for the final batch.

You could technically do it all in one trip, but that means adding substrate, plants, and ALL your fish to a cycled tank all at the same time = massive shock to the system. It's highly likely your fish will be stressed, develop disease, and other maladies from a one-stop shopping trip like that, and the shock to the cycle you've established will undoubtedly cause ammonia and nitrite spikes. A QT tank really doesn't do much good in this case, since I'm assuming the only reason you would be using it is to separate the livestock from the main tank during the addition of substrate and plants, correct?

I'm probably misunderstanding your desired technique and I'm sorry, but as I see it right now, the only way you could get away with making one trip is to run the risk of wiping out your tank. Have you considered shopping online and getting your plants and substrate shipped to you, so you can cycle that way? Then, you could make one trip with all the livestock and that would be much better, IMO.

And for your QT, are you substrating and planting that as well? If so, even better! Less shock all around.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

GTM - I have a store that I can get substrate close by. 

I was going to cycle the tank w/o plants first, along with my QT (cycle it). Then, I was going to get the plants & fish. Put the plants in the DT, & put the fish in the 10G QT.

Slowly after things have settled with the plants, then slowly add some fish....wait....add a few more fish....wait...etc.

P.S. I always appreciate all the input. This forum is really good about that, & I appreciate it very much. Hard to get this quality of input & in a timely manner like everyone usually does - very underrated.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

igot2gats said:


> GTM - I have a store that I can get substrate close by.
> 
> I was going to cycle the tank w/o plants first, along with my QT (cycle it). Then, I was going to get the plants & fish. Put the plants in the DT, & put the fish in the 10G QT.
> 
> ...


One thing you could maybe do which would speed this along would be to get some gravel and/or ornaments from a running tank in the store. Offer to pay full price for w what's in their tank already. Just be sure if you do that you have some source of ammonia in your tanks so the bacteria on the gravel or ornament have something to consume. It can be a fish, flakes rotting, a grocery shrimp, or pure ammonia once a day. If the gravel doesn't match what you want just put it in pantyhose or a filter medias bag (about $1 at the petstore). Just make sure the bag it with water..drying it out will kill the bacteria.

Setting up the tanks without an ammonia source won't start the bacterial growth at all. You really need an ammonia source for the magic to happen. I would suggest either picking a fishless way to do it or buying the dados up front when you get the tanks and crossing your fingers. Btw, products that neutralize ammonia will delay the cycle, so when you see them just skip them. Water conditioner to remove chlorine is all you need.

Good luck!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I gotcha now. Still, I don't see the point in a QT tank in your setup - the fish and plants can go together just fine. It's the fish you want to add slowly. Adding them all at once to the QT is just as good/bad as adding them all at once to the main tank.

You're better off adding half and half, to lower the shock on both cycled tanks - half in the main tank with the plants and substrate, the other half in the QT. That way, less shock to the system, and if one of the fish is ill, it will only affect half the population, instead of the whole.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

Ok, I'll just have to make 2 trips:

Trip 1 - Get plants & half of the fish I want. Set up Flourite & plants going for a little while, while adding half of my stocking fish list to QT.

Then, slowly working in fish over time from QT to DT.

Trip 2 - QT 2nd half of fish list, then slowly working them in.

Great Scott! I think I've got it.....

All y'all are the best.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You can seed a fishless cycle with raw seafood from your grocery store, fish food, or straight ammonia. I'm using some raw shrimp to cycle my ten gallon.


Soooo, can I put a couple raw shrimp & periodically add some fish flakes in the QT....while doing weekly water changes? 

Will that work?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

As long as there are no fish in your tank during cycling, you don't need to change the water. And as long as there is a source of ammonia in the tank you don't need to add fish food. Just put the raw shrimp in there and let them decompose. I would suggest putting them in a bag so when you need to fish them out when you add real fish, there won't be a mess. No need to add flake food or do a water change until the ammonia and nitrite spikes have dropped back to zero. Then change half you water, and add fish!

Note: Your tank will be smelly for awhile, just to warn you.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Note: Your tank will be smelly for awhile, just to warn you.


Yep.. lots of people also just buy straight ammonia (no perfumes added) from a hardware store and add a teaspoon a day till the tank is cycled. The last method, which probably takes longer is to just drop a flake of food in a day and let it decompose.

gtm is right about no water changes for any of these methods if you have no fish in the tanks. The reason for water changes is to keep the fish alive while the ammonia and nitrite spike. If you add enough plants, you won't even see much of a spike. The plants will consume ammonia, nitrite, and finally nitrate if none of the others are available. Enough fast growing plants and you will make your aquarium safer for your fish.. so much so you can run the tank without a filter or water changes.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That was why I said looks like he'll be cycling two tanks....because the fish will need to be split half and half, or something along those lines.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> That was why I said looks like he'll be cycling two tanks....because the fish will need to be split half and half, or something along those lines.


Oh, I agree. It will be cycling two tanks, but once they're both cycled he could use the other tank as a QT and hospital tank all he wants, which is a good thing to have on hand. My QT got re-purposed as a betta home, and now I am again kicking myself for not having a QT.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> As long as there are no fish in your tank during cycling, you don't need to change the water. And as long as there is a source of ammonia in the tank you don't need to add fish food. Just put the raw shrimp in there and let them decompose. I would suggest putting them in a bag so when you need to fish them out when you add real fish, there won't be a mess. No need to add flake food or do a water change until the ammonia and nitrite spikes have dropped back to zero. Then change half you water, and add fish!
> 
> Note: Your tank will be smelly for awhile, just to warn you.


What tests will I need - just Ammonia & Nitrite for QT?

What about my planted tank...what tests will I need for that?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

For your very basics on testing - chlorine, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. For both QT and DT.

For DT, additional testing - pH, KH (alkalinity), GH (general hardness), copper (must have if you're going to have shrimp), and if you want to check other nutrients, iron and phosphate.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think ph is basic for any tank.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

I got my Nitrite, Nitrate, & Ammonia test kits today. The 2 Ns are good (0) - the Ammonia bad...expected.

I just started my QT yesterday with raw shrimp. Any kind of avg timetable for the Ammonia to clear up / get to 0? Should I not take out the shrimp until the levels zero out?

I'm not in a rush by any means, just food for thought if you will...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I wouldn't take out the shrimp until you got persistent nitrites at least. Once you get there your ammonia levels may drop. What level is your ammonia at now?

Time can be 2-6 weeks.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

Nitrates & Nitrites are at 0, Ammonia 2.0 last few days. Tank was started this past Monday.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Don't take the shrimp out until both ammonia and nitrite are zero - even then, don't take it out until you add fish.

The spikes each last between 4 days and a week, in my experience. Tetra SafeStart will speed up the process, but that's only if you feel like splurging $12.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

Yeah, I'm no rush to get it cycled. But, it sure is stinky...lol. I know everyone warned me here about it, but still....pretty bad.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I like the bottled ammonia approach....no smell.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Yeah, I usually just pick a hardy fish to cycle with. Last time I did it with a betta. Any of the fishless methods sound good. Not sure if my wife would put up with the smell of rotten shrimp though.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

My water level is going down via evaporation. Should I top off with some new water, or just let it be?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Top it off as necessary. Treat it though. You're cycling the tanks, right? Fishless?


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Top it off as necessary. Treat it though. You're cycling the tanks, right? Fishless?


Fishless - yes for the QT. Just raw shrimp. Treat it? What's that mean, & how do I treat?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

igot2gats said:


> Fishless - yes for the QT. Just raw shrimp. Treat it? What's that mean, & how do I treat?


I think they mean treat the tap water with conditioner, a.k.a. dechlorinator.


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## igot2gats (Aug 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Top it off as necessary. Treat it though. You're cycling the tanks, right? Fishless?


Fishless - yes for the QT. Just raw shrimp. Treat it? What's that mean, & how do I treat?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Treat it - dechlor.


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