# City water quality and aquariums



## danilykins (Dec 22, 2010)

So I've been wondering about the water quality of where I live (Colorado Springs) and the health of my fish, shrimp and snails. I have lost many snails in my tanks, and quite a few shrimp and fish. I'm wondering if it could be from the water not due to care. 
http://www.csu.org/residential/water/quality/report/item14338.pdf
This shows a chart from 2009 of water samples. Should I be concerned. I use a hose connected to the sink to empty/fill my tank (with conditioner and plant vitamins added). Should I invest in a filter of some sort or an RO system? You know Christmas is coming and this would be something to ask for lol


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Dani,

Your tap water looks very similar to mine (I'm in Utah). One thing though - have you tested the GH, KH, phosphates and copper? Copper is the most important - even trace amounts can kill inverts. Elevated GH and phosphates can do the same. Do you run a water softener at your house? If so, how is the salt level in the back-flush reservoir?

An RO unit is a little extreme if you don't need it. I do since we have no water softener and my GH is 11 degrees out of the tap in the utility sink, along with high phosphates. You might consider distilled water from your grocery store, and I know some LFS's sell RO water for about $0.05/gallon. How big are your tanks?

If you don't have any way to test hardness, phosphate, copper, etc., I would recommend the API liquid test kits for the above mentioned. I find them at Pet Supplies - Pet Supply Store - Pet Products | PetMountain.com

Hope this helps!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Have you tested your tap for copper and phosphates? API makes test kits for both. A RO system is a fairly large step, but the good thing is you have a smaller tank and won't have to worry so much about how long it will take to fill your tank. If you did 100% change to RO, you'd still need to add a gh booster to put back stuff your fish/plants need like calcium/magnesium, and maybe put some crushed coral in your filter to make sure your Kh was where it needed to be. This will all depend on what levels your water is naturally and how good the RO system is in filtering it out.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure what your price range is, but I would start here if you decide on a system: Aquarium Water | Reverse Osmosis | RODI Water | ReefKeeper Water | Products and answers for your water treatment needs. RO cleans the water and RODI completely strips of everything. A RO can do that also, but like I said it depends on where the starting point is.

Forgot to mention that if you did need to add stuff back, all of it is very inexpensive and readily available. Not too hard to figure out either.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

IMHO and IME in a planted tank with some peat moss in the substrate and by doing no water changes, the quality of the tap water is unimportant. The plants, peat, and tank itself condition the water very nicely.

If you must I do recommend you use a commonly used cold faucet and let the water run for 1/2 minute before collecting it to add to the tank. (flushes out copper and avoids the hot water heater.)

my .02


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## danilykins (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I have never tested for copper or anything outside the normal API liquid test kit. I'll go looking for one soon. If it comes back that there is copper and phosphates, how do I remove those? I always run the water for about 5 min before I add water to the tank.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If there's copper in the water after 5 minutes, you will need an RO unit unfortunately. Phosphates can be mitigated with things like Phos-Sorb


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

My advice an collecting water was to reduce copper.


But even if there is copper, thriving growing plants (and in marine systems macro algaes) are extremely effecient at biosorbing (filtering out) copper. *old dude

my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> But even if there is copper, thriving growing plants (and in marine systems macro algaes) are extremely effecient at biosorbing (filtering out) copper.


The fact is, however, that adding water with copper in it is still exposing inverts to copper, albeit for a much shorter period with live plants in there soaking it up. A small RO unit would solve the problem at the source, however the cost would be prohibitive.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Gizmo said:


> The fact is, however, that adding water with copper in it is still exposing inverts to copper, albeit for a much shorter period with live plants in there soaking it up. A small RO unit would solve the problem at the source, however the cost would be prohibitive.


Hence the importance of not doing water changes.

Tap water according to one source has less then 250ppm copper at the faucet at over 60% of the major cities in the US (reference some dr randy holmes-farley article). adding 5% of the tank water only add 12.5 ppm or less copper. the api test kit measures 0-4ppm copper and in reef tanks for delicate corals the are affected down to the parts per billion (not million) levels.

Meanwhile a world health organization measured copper biosorbtion of some fast growing macro algaes. The results were the macros went from 30ppm copper to 1050ppm copper when exposed to 250ppm copper for 2 weeks. And a steady state had not been reached. The absorption was linear with copper concentration and time of exposure. (other tests were at lower copper level in the environment).

In my own experience I have never had a mass snail die off using both fw and marine planted techniques using straight untreated tap water in many cities in the US as I moved around the country while in the Air Force.

Finally limiting the water by the methods I mentioned will help insure the initial copper is much less that the 250ppm in the top off.

So to me if you have water potable to humans, in a tank with low to no nitrates (and hopefully no phosphates in the future) where plants and algae are thriving, you will nave no copper problems especially if you just top off and don't do water changes.


still just my .02


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## danilykins (Dec 22, 2010)

Wow lots of great info. Thx

I just can't figure out why I vantage seem to keep snails alive. The longest I have had a snail was 6 months (the one in the photo) I bought one last week, it died and I have to take it back. What else besides copper will kill snails? My tank is established and I only have mollies, guppies, swords and amano shrimps (I've lost one of those, but I think it was from molting and fish picking at it).


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Dani - some snails are adversely affected by medications that might have settled out on the bottom or have been absorbed by the algae they eat. Have you medicated recently?

Also, I hate to say it, but if you can't keep snails alive for very long, why do you keep buying them?

Bob - macros and marine environments have no bearing here in the FW forum, but your expertise on the subject is appreciated. They're a lost cause on me. The extent of my knowledge is that copper kills inverts, and I'm far from an expert in that subject. Without knowing Dani's levels, and given that she doesn't have a heavily planted tank with little livestock, therefore necessitating PWC's, I don't think any solid conclusions can be drawn. Yes, your beaslbob method works wonders for you and many others, but personally I would not tear down an already established tank simply to do away with the maintenance. Rather, I take pleasure in managing my tanks. But that's just me.


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