# Why should someone ask for help?



## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

Please let it be abundantly clear that this is directed at a VERY small group of people on this forum, and they WILL know who they are. 

As the topic suggests, I'm curious why anyone would want to ask for help in a forum environment like this one? 

I have read today a deplorable posting, we'll just leave names out but it breaks down like this:

1)Guy is having trouble - Guy asks questions
2)Veteran Forum Smartypants scold Guy for not being naturally wonderful with aquatic animals - Veteran Forum guy uses horrible analogues to push down Guy instead of being a little patient.
3) Guy lets his fish die because the insult and embarrassment involved with seeking advice and help outweigh the moral obligation to the animals.

So I query you all this... If you're here to share knowledge because of your love of fish, why would you directly cause harm to the animals by means of chasing away a hobbiest who is in genuine need of assistance and simply can't word things as properly as you, or as clearly?


By flexing your e-muscles you've compromised countless fish lives, and you should all be ashamed for every situation you've done this in. I've done it before, and I'm ashamed, but I've learned from scolding people that nobody is perfect. Beyond this you're not perfect... If you believe for a second we're doing any fish any favors outside of preserving endangered species by plugging an aquatic animal into a puny box with mechanical pumps shaking them all day and night, then you're an idiot, simply put. 

We have to accept the fact that you don't know everything, I don't know everything, and the purpose of forums in general is to compare a collective group of knowledge so as to offer the most coherent and effective advice as possible.... Today I saw none of that, I saw only fish going to die overnight because of egomania dictating who deserves to have healthy fish and who deserves to watch them suffer and die despite asking for some assistance.

Put your language barriers outside, keep them warm with your crappy attitude and actually offer some help to the individuals who come here with a problem they were not prepared for, and simply do not wish to see the problem advance any further.

Seriously... Grow up. Get a phD if you guys think you're so damn smart, offer something to science, and stop lying to yourselves believing that mouthing off on a forum is helping anyone do anything.

In my personal experience, i believe I've asked a total of 3 questions on here, only 1 received a friendly answer. (I go to reef central if I have a question you guys are JUST that cool) I've been shot down when giving an honest delivery of a fact... How can you people believe you're helping anyone while you behave this way?


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## Alaizabelle (Mar 4, 2011)

I've seen this sort of thing in nearly every forum I go to for various animals and plants. (and that's a LOT) 

My reasoning (as I try and make up something to make the people seem a little less mean) is that so many people come with a terrible situation that they have created, ask what they did wrong, get a reply, and then instead of attempting to help remedy the situation, the thread started gets defensive and states that their method of 15 goldfish in the 5 gallon tank is perfectly acceptable because they have done it before. The forum 'smart' posters get very tired of this, and instead of being patient with the poster like they used to be, jump straight to the scolding. Other 'smart' posters might just see the neglect and want to scare the thread op. into immediate action for the good of the animal. 

Think of animal rights groups. They get so wound up in yelling about the animals treatment that they make an enemy of someone who could of used their help. 

Also, I would hazard a guess that fish keeping attracts more of the solitary, less socially gifted crowd (not saying everyone! Please don't take offense to that!) Some of the posters may not quite realize to take into account the feelings of the person. 

I think that it's a common theme that runs through most dedicated hobbies. You would not believe the digital tongue lashing I have gotten over an orchid! I personally think that it just comes with the territory of online forums, and others should do their best to follow up those posts with more gentle words and help the person out.


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

Interesting post. I've only had experience with one unfriendly reply to a question and it wasn't my question. I however covet this forum due to the majority of the regulars that are always posting and their outright friendliness to everyone in this community.

I agree though, if you're having a bad day don't sign in and cause other people misery with your rude remarks and jerk statements. With that said, guess some people weren't raised with the rule of "If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything.".


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have been going to different forums since 2003. All started with info on my truck.

One thing I can say is that they are all the same. This site is not different from any other, but it does seem very eager to help people in need of it. That sort of separates it. You will not find many posts that go unanswered or threads for that matter.

Sometimes there are people that just don't want to hear the answer that you provide. Right or wrong in that advice, at least something is given. The person is better off for having received it, despite how it may have been delivered, and usually comes to the fix based on the advice of many or just a few. Or, on their own.

If I have a problem, I go to other sites and ask the same question I would here. I just want varied answers. When it comes right down to it, I want the nasty answer if I have done something that is terribly wrong in the eyes of others in this hobby. I'd rather hear someone give how they feel without having to worry about how they have to say so I get the true info. But...that is just me.

I don't know that I have ever gotten a "digital tongue lashing" , but if I do I understand that if I'm going to post my business on the internet, then there is always that chance and I just sort of have to be prepared for it. Not that that is an excuse to do it.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't think that you should have to be afraid to ask something because of smart alecks, but at the same time, at least with me, I want the true answer. BUT, the people giving the answer, even though it might seem obvious to them, need to be decent. So help people, just don't be rude, and we'll all be happy.


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## dirtydutch4x (Jun 16, 2009)

I have had this problem on here as a noob and i really was ready to just quit, I agree if someone asks for help and you can help then do so but dont just insult and tell them they screwed up, help them fix it. some on here ask for advice because they did the noob thing and bought the cute fish at the LFS without research, but what do they know? An LFS employee tells them something they believe it. I consistantly hear people told to return fish or that they must do this or that, and thats great when its said right rather than a straight order.advice is great when offered but not as a demand or an order. Oh yea and occasionally someone puts a fish in a tank not realizing that it will grow huge and rather than TELL them to return the fish, recommend a near future upgrade.


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## aquaticsnerd (Jan 29, 2011)

I think of a forum as a public place. We should all be on our best behavior and try get along like you do anywhere out in public. We're all here for the betterment of knowledge and seeking out assistance if required.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

For me, it's easy. I ask for advice, I get it and then use whatever parts I think will work. Sometimes, I actually think I might know enough to suggest something to someone who has asked a question and do so.

Frankly, if someone is cyber rude, I don't care a bit. I try to be friendly and helpful to those who are friendly and helpful. Outside of that, it's just bits of data on a wire.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Holy crap I hope I don't fit into this category!!! I have seen a few people on here that are a little frigid by for the most part I have only seen problems crop up when someone asks for an answer about a problem and then denies the answer and gets upset about it. There was a person on here awhile ago and he added like 8 aggressive fish to his tank in the matter of 2 days and they lasted 2 or 3 days and he wanted to know why they were dying. He refused to believe that it was water quality, aggression and territoriality among the fish, or a parasite brought in by the fish and the tank had not been cycled previously. Then as they died off and before he got an answer that satisfied him he started adding more fish to the tank again. People got upset that he had asked for help and was refusing to accept the answers given. But, I find most people on here are pretty good. You will find 'pushers' and although set in their ways they are still nice, for example beaslbob is a Leiden tank pusher jrman is a pure liquid ammonia to cycle tanks pusher. Me-I'm a beaslbob substrate, cycle with fish flakes, balance the tank with live plants, forget the water changes and all chemicals pusher LOL


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## pringleringel (Apr 3, 2011)

If someone gets cocky just hit them with an e-driveby..*gunship

Seriously though.. There's fish nazis on all of the fish sites. 

People might be sick of answering the same questions over and over but they need to remember that someone else will probably be willing to help with an answer so they don't always need to be the first person to answer every question.. 

This reply is probably not relevant to the situation but something I've observed everywhere.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Well I don't know if I just read the thread in question, but I did just read one and TBH, I sure didn't care for the response that the OP got and felt it was uncalled for. Which of course led to things getting out of hand.

Every now and then, things like this will crop up on every forum. It's unavoidable no matter how much it's advertised that it is a "friendly" site. And I'm sure we have all had it happen to us as well.

I would definately say that people just have to be very mindful of what they post. If someone asks a question and you feel like you can answer it...go ahead. But leave out all the unsolicited side banter.

Doesn't matter how knowledgeable you may be. Remember, you were once a noob too.


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## cooltow1 (Mar 30, 2011)

James0816 said:


> Doesn't matter how knowledgeable you may be. Remember, you were once a noob too.


Amen. I would have given anything for the information that is available on-line when I started out. 


Rick


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

FWIW this forum is much better then two large saltwater/reef forums. *old dude

I first started posting back in 2003 and the reaction fo "my" advice was exactly what was observed in the first post here.

There are many ways to maintain tanks and we all advise what works for us.

Of course my posting techniques have changed over the years also.

like

that's just my .02


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

James0816 has it down!


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

I have did it here once, and in hind-sight I was wrong, but when you get someone asking a question that has been covered a 1000 times and could be answered with a simple google search it beggars belief.

But this is a Forum for trading ideas and again in hind-sight I wouldn't do it again.


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## pringleringel (Apr 3, 2011)

I've done searches on stuff and figured I had found the answer but still asked anyways. Sometimes I want as much input as I can get. Othertimes I might just want to strike up conversation..

Sometimes I just get excited and want to talk about it even if it is the same old stuff that has been covered everyday for years lol.

That's where people that are sick of answering the same questions over and over need to kick back and chill and let someone else that doesn't mind answer them.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

I believe you're missing the point I'm trying to make, verdifer.. I have no interest in chronically repeating myself either, however if for a moment you would believe that the majority of confusion can be resolved with a google search, you're horribly mistaken. You would need a phD to manage the amount of information you would receive on any topic, some people need guidance, especially those new to the hobby who just learned what a nitrogen cycle was, that bacteria can actually help your ecosystem and so on. For these individuals, just googling a result cannot sufficiently answer their questions.

I really dont want to get into what post was what, im not interested in starting a flame fest either. I appreciate the positive responses also but implore you to not miss focus here. I'm upset that people are being put down and insulted over simple errors... Google simply cannot educate, or our public school systems would be in ruins.

I dont expect you to take me as a knowledgeable person either. Afterall, I did come to this forum to ask things, collect insight and hear of other peoples experiences. If for a moment we reduce this to google searching because we're too lazy to be patient and notice that something outside of saying "Nitrogen cycle" doesnt make sense to someone.

Fathom this... In canada you learn about the nitrogen cycle in GRADE 10! If its so damn simple, why is anyone part of this forum past the age of 14? The answer is that something like a nitrogen cycle simply cannot be explained to a 14 year old, it may be disambiguated into simple terms, but not for a second does the 14 year old fully comprehend the scope and management of a nitrogen cycle, perculation, ecology, or anything for this matter... They've simply had a peek into a vast universe of understanding that they will have to work towards obtaining. Some may continue to study ecology or another aquatic type faculty, but for the most part, try to convince me im wrong too, but aquarists arent always professionals... They're often teenagers, children, or just an average person wanting a relaxing view in their home. 

The day that we need in depth comprehension of icthyology is the day that aquariums will no longer be sold in stores, fish will only be eaten as foods, and only the most devout scientists will have any form of aquatic animal swimming around in captivity. I subscribe to 2 monthly magazines for reef keeping, each month I'm learning new things, and each month in the Q&A column there are novice aquarists seeking help, and here they get it. Beyond this, every quarter i see an article in both magazines trying to motivate the readers to share this wonderful hobby with the people around them. 

Children, Relatives, loved ones. The fact remains that we see our hobby dwindling into the darkness, people are less interested in trying because of failure rates, they believe the maintenance is too extensive, and so on. But for any educated keeper here, we all know that we dont need a science degree, we dont need extensive maintenance, you need control. With control comes consistency, and with that comes a thriving species.

Money wont make your fish happy, your education.. maybe can help if something "bad" goes down, but ultimately that doesnt do much for your fish either. Its the dedication from the hobbiest who wants to learn, observe and grow themselves from keeping fish, and it is these individuals which are too cool, or busy, or loco to answer a question that may be better understood with a little disambiguation. 

Perhaps you should grab the moderators and put together a licensing program so that only smart people who never have sick fish can post here. Then you can just run around all day bragging about how elite you are, while everyone else has fish die off from lack of understanding, despite genuinely sucking up the pride and asking for help. 

The funny thing is, the guy with the problem can at least suck up his pride...

This happens everywhere? Well, no, it doesnt... It will happen in many places, but dont lie to yourself to say you're just like everyone else, you are only like yourself, the day you are a staple is the day you should just stop posting, since you truly couldnt actually help anyone since you're on such a level playing field. 

This comes not from 1 day, or 1 post. This comes from observations from the day i signed up on here. I can agree many people do post productively, but you'll also notice as I opened i did isolate this accusation to small groups of individuals. To assume I've included you (after noting that you'd know it if it was) is rash, quick minded, plain taking this out of context and further proving my point. 

The reassuring posts that this group of individuals is not condoned by the average user, and should be brushed off was very promising. I spend a while last night thinking of how I could respond since I felt so silly. I expected people ranting like lunatics in here, but instead they were understanding... Anyhow, I felt that since you people responded to this I would respond also. I've no further interest in this conversation, it will prove no use for anything to come in the future. I'm just hoping the people who abuse individuals seeking help do get to read this and hang their heads in shame, those of you who do not do this, keep helping others, do your best... I just cant be bothered tippy toeing around the fools who think they're next to god of aquariums.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Slurik, if you think its bad here go to 3 larger communities and see how gestapo they are about it.

I hate repeating myself however I will link to or answer the question. I dont type in attitude and hopefully it isnt perceived that way. I mean, I really wouldnt have a successful aquatics business if I never answered the same questions over and over with each customer.

Now if its the same person asking the same question over and over then yeah they deserve a little heat for it.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

TBH I'm not a big fan of this "you know who you are" thing, can you post names.

You have came this far why stop.


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

I got a great idea, I think we should petition the admins for a Knowledge Base of sorts. This would give a place to search and possibly get answers for some common questions. Doing a general search on even the forum is daunting, this thread turns into that thread which you have to dig through to locate an answer. Or at least get you going in the right direction.

Why name names? Honestly Liam, I couldn't remember who it was in that thread. But I remember now.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Sure I learned about the nitrogen cycle in high school.

It took me 40 years to learn the ammonia->nitrIte->nitrate spikes does not apply to planted tanks. *old dude

It took just as long for me to figure out that 70ppm nitrates is the result of 1ppm/day and a 10% weekly water change. (actually it took 39.5 years before I tried to figure that out.)

I also find it amusing about google searches.

Most of my google searches return forum posts like these *old dude


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## retiredsemi (Feb 8, 2011)

simply put if you need to ask a question then ask it..If you don't like the answear then don't use the advice. I have asked questions here and have used the advice and so far my planted tanks are starting to be self supporting. Many thanks to you beaselbob. *old dude if you have thin skin don't cry if ya get hurt feelings!! For the most part I have found this to be one of the best forums about aquariums on the internet

retiredsemi the other*old dude


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

retiredsemi said:


> simply put if you need to ask a question then ask it..*If you don't like the answear then don't use the advice*. I have asked questions here and have used the advice and so far my planted tanks are starting to be self supporting. Many thanks to you beaselbob. *old dude *if you have thin skin don't cry if ya get hurt feelings*!! For the most part I have found this to be one of the best forums about aquariums on the internet
> 
> retiredsemi the other*old dude


I don't think that's the issue.

Asking a question, getting an answer and whether or not the OP takes that advice is a different story.

Asking a question, getting an answer and getting slammed, put down, beat down, belittled, degraded, etc. is absolutely uncalled for in any type of forum; public or private.

There should be in *NO* instance that anyone responds to a question in a belittling fashion. Who cares if the question was asked and answered 1 or 1000 times. The OP is out here looking for advice, help ... knowledge.

If you're going to offer to assist, do so in a respectful manner. What are those two sayings that always come to mind: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" AND "Mama always said; if you don't have anything nice to say ... don't say anything at all".

Principle applies to forums as well.

I said this in my last post. If a member poses a question to the forum and you feel inclined to answer it, do so respectfully. If you feel you need to be a wisenheimer, take it elsewhere. What did THEY do to YOU personally to cause that type of treatment? NOTHING! If it aggrevates you that it has been asked over and over and over again, don't respond. If you feel it's a stupid question, don't respond. Simple as that. Me personally, I don't see what's so hard about it. I'm not disrespectful and I sure hate to be disrespected. I'm sure most of us out here are the same way.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

James, is a Weisenheimer the same thing as a stunad and aschlacht? lol

James, I know you on a few forums, you dont change attitudes at any of them, I respect your responses and have used alot of your advice already knowing how to do it one way. I do appreciate your knowledge.

If it was ME being the arse, then yeah slam me, call me out but I try to refrain, I do havfe anger issues and try not to let those come out to others but sometimes it leaks and we deal with it but I think we as a hobby of one commmon interest is support each and every single new hobbyist we get.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

This is an interesting topic, I'm glad we're addressing it. If you're a person who goes through the new posts regularly looking for messages that you might have useful advice regarding, make sure you do it when you've had your caffeine, you're well rested, not cross about something else, when you're at your best. If you need to blow off steam, log on to Facebook, or sign on to World of Warcraft and kill some monsters. Don't drive angry, don't forum angry. 

When we're here, in a small way we're educators. If we're going to bother to spend the time and energy to put ourselves out there, our experience our opinions, we need to think about doing it in a way that's useful. Getting snarky and snappy and exasperated at people because they're making mistakes is tempting, God knows I do it, although I'm working on it. When a student hears negative spin on what you're saying it closes up their ears. All of us have had experience with people responding to our advice by being defensive, "it couldn't be that, I didn't do anything wrong". That's an example of the negative closing the student off from the learning experience. Sometimes it isn't our fault, sometimes the student brings their own negative, but sometimes we bring it, with our choice of words, with our attitude, what have you. If we're going to put our energy into this, wouldn't we rather actually teach people? But to teach people we have to approach them in a way that allows them to be open to new information, sometimes they're going to have to discard old ideas in order to adopt new ones "I thought if I kept my tank super clean I was doing a good job, now you're telling me some of this dirt I was cleaning up was actually important and I needed it in my tank?" We have to learn how to approach people gently, to help them keep an open mind about what the source of their problems is. 

Even once someone is in defense mode, you can coax them out of it if you're patient and if you actually explain the why of things and don't meet defensive with critical. Nobody was ever beaten out of a defensive position. Sometimes they stop responding, but I've never seen anybody say "oh well, you've yelled enough now, I guess you're right.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> James, is a Weisenheimer the same thing as a stunad and aschlacht?


lol ... yeah, pretty much one in the same. ;oP



WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> James, I know you on a few forums, you dont change attitudes at any of them, I respect your responses and have used alot of your advice already knowing how to do it one way. I do appreciate your knowledge.
> 
> If it was ME being the arse, then yeah slam me, call me out but I try to refrain...


Thanks kindly. I respect the advice and knowledge I garner from others, including yourself, as well. There is no way we know everything.

I still don't know the who (doesn't really matter actually), what, when, where, etc of the fuel to this debate so please don't think I'm singling out anyone in particular. My thoughts are general in nature and would hopefully apply to everyone to include myself. Mainly myself since I can control me and not anyone else. ;o)


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

lol, wife is really german im just a german italian mutt(twice the temper though) and yeah I practice self control every millisecond of the day my man. 

Like Ive said many times before, there are no experts just those with more experience.


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

Funny part is the ones that tend to be rude or mean are hardly here anyway.

Here's a short list of people that are always on here (when I am at least) and give good advice.

Susan
jrman
gta
bealsbob
james

And don't get me wrong there are a lot of people that give great advice "NursePlatty" and the DIY Light Fixture which is awesome. But the people above, you can place a firm bet they are here and replying/posting daily/hourly.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I hope i havent said anything to offend anyone either.If I did,I am sorry and it was most likely written wrong by me,lol.That being said,I have been a complete noob myself,and I feel theres always more to learn.I dont know it all, but will try to be as helpful as possible,and in a nice way.My mom taught me that rudeness is very uncalled for.so I try my hardest to not be so.


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## cooltow1 (Mar 30, 2011)

I really was sure this was dead and gone.
I think I will just back to my GOLDFISH forums 
I really hope you all can find a common ground

Rick


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I think it works both ways, it's really important to be polite when answering posts but people who ask questions can't be too sensitive either. If we are all too busy treading on eggshells we won't have the chance to help people and fish. I wouldn't want people to stop giving straightforward advice. That's not an excuse for being rude or abusive (and if someone is admin do take steps) but everyone is bound to come over too strong, know it all, or be overly biased by to their own opinions at times. If someone is a little rude or heated answering calmly usually solves the problem, it's hard to have a one sided fight . For the most part people who really want answers, not just flattery stick it out. Different personalities, ages, cultures and opinions, are part of using a forum. We all have to work at giving and receiving advice well. 

I have found this the friendliest fish forum I've been a part of, someone almost always takes the time to answer newbie questions in a helpful way. Once I saw a rude post and I pointed it out to the admins but to be honest both sides were being prickly to start with (I can't even remember who the posters were, so I'm not making a dig at anyone).

I invite anyone who feels any of my posts don't come across right or are just wrong to let me know. I always try to give what I feel is the best advice in polite, and informative way but I'm quite sure I get it wrong sometimes.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be smart to have a suggested form for people to fill out when they're requesting advice when there's illness or fish death involved that would have spaces for people to put in the results of various water tests, info on what kind of filter, heating, size of tank, types of fish, length of time tank has been running - you guys know what would be on there - so that people responding to the request could start right out with answers instead of questions. So much of the friction comes about with people having to be asked to round up all the info we need to give them the answers, with them feeling accused because we're asking, but once we know what the info is, 75% we know exactly what's wrong. Of course some of them are still going to be touchy, because 90% of the time the problem is something that happened because of something they did or didn't do, and they'd like it to be "not their fault". But the more plainly routine the questions seem, maybe the less accused the question askers can feel?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

That is one of the basic reasons people end up in tiffs, When someone that is trying to help and have to ask other questions so many people get defensive. I really don't think a sticky for a list of what needs to be known as its commonplace most people don't read the stickies.

I know I do come off sounding rude sometimes, but I'm not really, I'm just a very blunt person. I can only give advice on what I have learned myself or what I have learned from others with more experience.

As most people with a lot of years experience will tell you, they still learn new things everyday when it comes to keeping fish. I have been keeping fish for over 30 years and I still read and learn everyday on this hobbie. If someone claims to be an expert and don't need to learn anymore, they are really blind to the fact that new things come out everyday that they don't know.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

chris oe said:


> I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be smart to have a suggested form for people to fill out when they're requesting advice when there's illness or fish death involved that would have spaces for people to put in the results of various water tests, info on what kind of filter, heating, size of tank, types of fish, length of time tank has been running - you guys know what would be on there - so that people responding to the request could start right out with answers instead of questions. So much of the friction comes about with people having to be asked to round up all the info we need to give them the answers, with them feeling accused because we're asking, but once we know what the info is, 75% we know exactly what's wrong. Of course some of them are still going to be touchy, because 90% of the time the problem is something that happened because of something they did or didn't do, and they'd like it to be "not their fault". But the more plainly routine the questions seem, maybe the less accused the question askers can feel?


I think it's a good idea in theory and it could help but I've used other forums where they ask you to give all that info and read all the stickies and FAQ before you post and it takes about 3hrs to do if you actually follow their instructions properly. I'm sure it puts some people off posting and others ignore all that and then yelled at. The balance has to be kept between getting the info and creating to much bureaucracy. Some people don't have test kits or are not good at filling out forms but perhaps making it optional could work. An FAQ to link people to might help.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

susankat said:


> That is one of the basic reasons people end up in tiffs, When someone that is trying to help and have to ask other questions so many people get defensive. I really don't think a sticky for a list of what needs to be known as its commonplace most people don't read the stickies.
> 
> I know I do come off sounding rude sometimes, but I'm not really, I'm just a very blunt person. I can only give advice on what I have learned myself or what I have learned from others with more experience.'t know.


Sometimes it's hard to find a way to put it that doesn't sound rude, it's not like you want to be, your just trying to solve the problem in a straightforward way and if someone has an oscar in a 10 gallon tank or the tank has been running for 4 weeks and fish just started dying it's pretty clear what the problem is, no matter what the LFS guy said. I don't believe there are many on the forum that are cruel on purpose, and we don't wan't to accuse them of that but you still have to tell them what they have done is killing their fish, or will if they don't change things. I do sympathise with newbies, I've been their too, my first fish as a kid were goldfish in a bowl and now it makes me cringe.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

retiredsemi said:


> simply put if you need to ask a question then ask it..If you don't like the answear then don't use the advice. I have asked questions here and have used the advice and so far my planted tanks are starting to be self supporting.* Many thanks to you beaselbob. *old *dude if you have thin skin don't cry if ya get hurt feelings!! For the most part I have found this to be one of the best forums about aquariums on the internet
> 
> retiredsemi the other*old dude


aww gosh

gee whillikers

shuckie dern

farm out


outta state

and a general


{blush} *r2

Glad it's working.


I'm retired from one job and so perhaps you gotta be old and retired for these things to work.

my .02


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

Maybe we could use something like the US Army does to deal with people with hurt feelings. Click on link below. It's a PDF file, you need Adobe to open it.


http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/legalfiles/gates_letter_sept09/attach_1.pdf


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/legalfiles/gates_letter_sept09/attach_1.pdf[/QUOTE]

That is pretty funny. 

Maybe we could just have, instead of a "welcome" button, a poke you in the eye/kick you in the groin button. Just to test for toughness. 'Cause people who expect to be treated with courtesey are euphemisms.


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## retiredsemi (Feb 8, 2011)

love it yes maybe we need to adopt it on the forum *r2 .. Sorry if I hurt anybody's feeling wwith this post but I feel that way about whiners and crybabies.. and by the way someone said noobs ask stupid questions hmmmmm well \i always tgiught that the only stupid question was the one you were afraid to ask..........*old dude


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

If you feel as though you're being harassed, report it to a moderator and let them handle it. Naming-and-shaming (this thread is borderline) isn't a great way to get your point across.

As sad as it is, welcome to the internet. People are going to act poorly sometimes, and you have to understand that and shrug it off. If someone berates you for what they consider 'poor fish-keeping' or anything else for that matter, don't let it personally bother you.

At the end of the day, they're just some shmo on the internet talking about fish, just like you and I.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Scuff said:


> If you feel as though you're being harassed, report it to a moderator and let them handle it.


I think thats a good idea.


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