# Need opinion on my 10 gallon Tank



## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Hey guys, me again. 

I just bought a 10 gallon tank for my fish to insure a better home for them. I took out the betta and left him the 5 gallon. 

So currently I have 3 neon tetras, 3 zebra danios (one of which is an orange color), a ghost shrimp (I want to get 2 more of these!!) and my pleco (poor thing  ) I bought a filter rated for 20 gallons and a larger air stone for this set up. I think this is much better for them until I get my 30+ gallon tank. (Hopefully soon!!)

So what are your opinions on this setup? 
Also, is it safe/ok to keep them in pitch black during the night? My house is VERY dark at night. Or would it be better to keep a lamp on for some ambient light?

Thanks!

Here it is!


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## joe2011 (Jul 6, 2011)

looks nice!!!! no top ? i have had fish jump out when i didnt have a top on my tank .


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

joe2011 said:


> looks nice!!!! no top ? i have had fish jump out when i didnt have a top on my tank .


Not yet, im using a piece of cardboard *r2 need money!!!!


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

looks good! like mentioned before, that Pleco is going to grow too large for that tank, and even a 30 gallon (unless you got a Bristlenose species instead), but this is MUCH better for him for the time being

and the light still isn't much of a problem; the tank can be pitch black at night, it won't bother them. I have an LED strip that I leave VERY dimly at night, but that's because I have a few creatures in my tank that are primarily active at night, and I think that little soft glow helps them a little. but most tanks do just fine being pitch black. you don't want it lit up all the time because that can actually bother and stress out a lot of fish


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> looks good! like mentioned before, that Pleco is going to grow too large for that tank, and even a 30 gallon (unless you got a Bristlenose species instead), but this is MUCH better for him for the time being
> 
> and the light still isn't much of a problem; the tank can be pitch black at night, it won't bother them. I have an LED strip that I leave VERY dimly at night, but that's because I have a few creatures in my tank that are primarily active at night, and I think that little soft glow helps them a little. but most tanks do just fine being pitch black. you don't want it lit up all the time because that can actually bother and stress out a lot of fish


Ok perfect thanks. What about my ghost shrimp? He ok too in the dark?! Lol 

That poor pleco, I'm going to give him away soon  sad to see him go but I don't want him to be in a bad environment.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

When you get the 30G I'd highly suggest doubling or even tripling the amount of Tetras and Danios in the tank as they prefer larger groups (going for maybe 8-9 of each would be a good idea) and swapping your pleco for a bristlenose. If you decided to take that advice, you'd be at your stocking limits and would probably want to refrain from buying another else outside of maybe more shrimp. Also you mentioned you want to buy 2 more ghost shrimp, why not more? My 30G had 12 of them in before I had to medicate for Ich (and consequently remove my shrimp to a 10G tank since they can't handle the copper in the medicine) and I wanted to get more. The general rule is about 1-2 gallons per shrimp, but really as long as they aren't fighting amongst eachother they are fine as they contribute little to the tank's bioload and are extremely useful for cleansing the tank of uneaten food. Just make sure if you get more that they all have enough to eat, you may have to supplement their diet with some sinking pellets (they make sinking pellets for shrimp but they aren't picky at all, I feed mine frog pellets sometimes and they love them haha).


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## joe2011 (Jul 6, 2011)

kestik said:


> Not yet, im using a piece of cardboard *r2 need money!!!!


I hear that this hobby can cost a ton !!!! i like glass tops but thats just me


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> When you get the 30G


Thanks so much! So do you suggest 10 shrimp for this tank? I think I might only get 5, they are costly and I want to save a bit for my 30gal. My 30 I want to do a planted (beaslbob) build. 

I have some kelp/algae/protein round wafers for my pleco (I hate them, if they don't get eaten they cloud) should I drop them for the shrimp once in a while?

Thanks!


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

kestik said:


> What about my ghost shrimp? He ok too in the dark?! Lol


he should be fine  my fist experiences with inverts were with Ghost Shrimp just because they were cheap and readily available, and this was back before I did the whole dim-lit LED thing, and they were perfectly fine in the dark. In fact, two of them that were in my 10 gallon tank are in my 30 gallon today!


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> he should be fine  my fist experiences with inverts were with Ghost Shrimp just because they were cheap and readily available, and this was back before I did the whole dim-lit LED thing, and they were perfectly fine in the dark. In fact, two of them that were in my 10 gallon tank are in my 30 gallon today!


Haha ok perfect! I love that little shrimp! I sat and watched mine for half an hour once I finally introduced him to the tank! My girlfriend named him "jaques" after the shrimp in finding nemo "rolls eyes". 

Thanks for the help!


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

Where are you buying the shrimp from? Petsmart sells them for $.33 where I live. 

And 10 shrimp would be perfectly fine for a 10G as long as there are enough hiding spots and other nooks and crannies for them to hide in if they feel threatened (which very well may happen with a betta in there). I currently have 12 shrimp in my 10G and they are just fine. A good way to determine if they are healthy and comfortable in a tank is that within a month or so you'll spot one or more of the larger shrimp (larger ones are females) with green/brown looking stuff in their 'stomachs.' In actuality these are eggs and you can watch them grow throughout the next couple weeks until they hatch (good luck raising the babies though, it's not easy).

Feed the pleco as needed. It's hard to tell you a fixed amount, put a small bit in there and if it's gone after a day or two add another. Most foods shouldn't cloud the water (cloudiness may be something else). Since you only have one shrimp I wouldn't worry about feeding him. He'll eat. At feeding time he'll probably fight with the other fish and try to snatch some food and go and hide to eat it, if not he'll get at the leftovers. They're pretty cool to watch, mine seem to be pretty smart...before I even drop the food in they all come out of their hiding spots to try and nab food (I think they notice the fish getting all excited, as when I open the lip and tap on the glass the fish know it's feeding time which probably alerts the shrimp).

Another option for feeding plecos (if cloudiness is becoming a problem) is to boil zucchini/broccoli and place this in the bottom of the tank. I haven't done it but I hear plecos love it.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> Where are you buying the shrimp from? Petsmart sells them for $.33 where I live.
> 
> And 10 shrimp would be perfectly fine for a 10G as long as there are enough hiding spots and other nooks and crannies for them to hide in if they feel threatened (which very well may happen with a betta in there). I currently have 12 shrimp in my 10G and they are just fine. A good way to determine if they are healthy and comfortable in a tank is that within a month or so you'll spot one or more of the larger shrimp (larger ones are females) with green/brown looking stuff in their 'stomachs.' In actuality these are eggs and you can watch them grow throughout the next couple weeks until they hatch (good luck raising the babies though, it's not easy).


Wow that's awesome for pricing!! That one little guy was 3 dollars! Unreal. It was a big aquatic store in my area. 

Oh, don't forget! The betta is safly away from the rest in a 5 gallon all to himself. (He's my girlfriend's to deal with now hah!) There will soon be a piece of driftwood in the center where the empty area is (its busy soaking overnight) for the pleco and maybe the shrimp if they can find something to suck on lol


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh my bad, I completely missed that. I tend to read too quickly and miss important stuff like that haha. Yeah the shrimp should be fine then, they're hardy little fellows and worst case scenario (if he/they are starving) he/they will eat with the pleco. I've seen mine crawl on top of my pleco and pick pieces of stuff of her while she was eating a wafer, and then muscle in on the wafer as well afterward. Adding the driftwood should suffice. You could also look into buying a moss ball, they love to pick at those (but those can be expensive - $5-10 - so maybe not).


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> Oh my bad, I completely missed that. I tend to read too quickly and miss important stuff like that haha. Yeah the shrimp should be fine then, they're hardy little fellows and worst case scenario (if he/they are starving) he/they will eat with the pleco. I've seen mine crawl on top of my pleco and pick pieces of stuff of her while she was eating a wafer, and then muscle in on the wafer as well afterward. Adding the driftwood should suffice. You could also look into buying a moss ball, they love to pick at those (but those can be expensive - $5-10 - so maybe not).


haha that's hilarious! These are what I have for feeding the pleco:

Would shrimp eat these up? They have Salmon, halibut, and "seafood mix" (Includes krill, herring, and shrimp) in them as well as Kelp.


















They say they wont cloud the water but they did both times I put one in the 5 gallon. I'm assuming they don't cloud when the fish actually eat them...? lol

$5 isn't too much considering how overpriced everything is here. I would guess that a moss ball costing $5 dollars however, would cost up to $13.99 here.. It's silly how pricy things are here. (Ontario, Canada.)


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

You may be right about the pricing, it varies a lot. This hobby can get expensive that is for sure. I have little doubts the shrimp would eat the veggie rounds, they'll eat just about anything (including their own shell after they molt).


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> You may be right about the pricing, it varies a lot. This hobby can get expensive that is for sure. I have little doubts the shrimp would eat the veggie rounds, they'll eat just about anything (including their own shell after they molt).


Crafty little scavengers, aren't they!? How can I test if they will eat it? Just fire one down there and hope he nibbles on it?

I also have a container of blanched zucchini in the fridge for my pleco. I can try those too I suppose.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> You may be right about the pricing, it varies a lot. This hobby can get expensive that is for sure. I have little doubts the shrimp would eat the veggie rounds, they'll eat just about anything (including their own shell after they molt).


Ok I have a serious problem here...

all 3 of my neons are stuck to the filter, motionless. I'm pretty sure they are dead. My white danio continually stays near the surface. What did I do wrong? Maybe loaded the tank too much too soon? Or could it be shock? 
My temp is about 73F. 
Could ammonia have spiked this lethal in this short amount of time on a BRAND new tank? I used conditioner on the water and let the tank run for an hour before introducing fish. I also let the fish sit in the water in their store bags to adjust to the temperature, if there was a difference.

What should I do!?


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

kestik said:


> Crafty little scavengers, aren't they!? How can I test if they will eat it? Just fire one down there and hope he nibbles on it?
> 
> I also have a container of blanched zucchini in the fridge for my pleco. I can try those too I suppose.


Essentially, yeah. It's also easy to see if/what they have eaten as it will remain visible inside of them for a while. If your little guy is completely clear with no color near his mouth, he hasn't eaten recently..otherwise you can usually tell exactly what he's been eating.

As for your fish dying, if you just put the water in then it probably wasn't ammonia. Neons are not as hardy as danios which explain why they died first. It's really hard to speculate why they died without knowing all of the information (and it would be difficult for you to really tell us all of the important information) but shock very well may have been the reason as the fish just went from the store to a tank to a new tank pretty quickly (and may have been in transit for along period of time prior to arriving at the pet store just a day or two before purchase as well). However since the water was the same as the water from your 5 gallon I'm going to say it was probably something else. They could have been ill to begin with, or the stress of all of their relocations and such could have allowed infections/diseases to take over. How were they acting before they died?

Also 73 degrees is pretty low for tropical fish. I have my tank set at 81 degrees and during my Ich treatment the temp was set at 86-88 degrees with no problems. 80 degrees is probably ideal I'd imagine, however Danios prefer lower temperature so with your current (or should I say previous) setup, you probably want a temp of around 76-78. A problem here is that the higher the temperature (and pH), the more toxic the ammonia in the tank is (there's a link to a chart somewhere on the site but I don't know if it's accurate). Tropical fish stores usually try to maintain 78-80 degrees with most of their tanks, but it's hard to say if this was the cause of death.

And I say death because even if the Neons are still alive, a fish stuck to a filter is inevitably a dead fish...no healthy fish would allow itself to be stuck to a filter.

Did you over-condition the water? I believe with some brands it's impossible to do so, but with others if you add more than the suggested dosage you may kill the fish. Most conditioners only require a drop or two per gallon.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> Essentially, yeah. It's also easy to see if/what they have eaten as it will remain visible inside of them for a while. If your little guy is completely clear with no color near his mouth, he hasn't eaten recently..otherwise you can usually tell exactly what he's been eating.
> 
> As for your fish dying, if you just put the water in then it probably wasn't ammonia. Neons are not as hardy as danios which explain why they died first. It's really hard to speculate why they died without knowing all of the information (and it would be difficult for you to really tell us all of the important information) but shock very well may have been the reason as the fish just went from the store to a tank to a new tank pretty quickly (and may have been in transit for along period of time prior to arriving at the pet store just a day or two before purchase as well). However since the water was the same as the water from your 5 gallon I'm going to say it was probably something else. They could have been ill to begin with, or the stress of all of their relocations and such could have allowed infections/diseases to take over. How were they acting before they died?
> 
> ...


They are confirmed dead, I just disposed of them. How can I prevent shock ( if it was shock) for the next time?

They were very active prior to this (6 hours ago) and stayed together in their group of three.

I put slightly over the suggested dosage of conditioner but very barely. The suggested for dechlorination and protection of the fish in a 10 gallon was 10mL. I put maybe 11 or 12mL and let the water stand for a few hours and run through the tank for an hour. Maybe it was the temperature then?

This really sucks, thanks for the help 

Edit: also, the 2 new neons where brand new from the pet shop and weren't in the 5 gallon. The same goes for 2 of the danios and the shrimp


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

If all three died so suddenly I'm guessing it was either shock or the water chemistry. If you drip acclimate the fish for a couple of hours before putting them in you can prevent shock in most cases. I don't drip acclimate but it's the best way from what I've read. What you do is rig a small airline from the tank and let it drip in a bucket (or whatever other large container you can put the fish in) for a while before putting them in. Other members can explain how this is done better than me.

Did you add anything else to the water other than conditioner? Also did you put any of the water from the petstore into your tank? (Probably wasn't the cause but a good rule is to never put water from any other tank in your aquarium unless necessary.)


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> If all three died so suddenly I'm guessing it was either shock or the water chemistry. If you drip acclimate the fish for a couple of hours before putting them in you can prevent shock in most cases. I don't drip acclimate but it's the best way from what I've read. What you do is rig a small airline from the tank and let it drip in a bucket (or whatever other large container you can put the fish in) for a while before putting them in. Other members can explain how this is done better than me.
> 
> Did you add anything else to the water other than conditioner? Also did you put any of the water from the petstore into your tank? (Probably wasn't the cause but a good rule is to never put water from any other tank in your aquarium unless necessary.)


Hmm. I did put the petstore water into my tank as the bags they gave me were too small for my net. (I probably could have just emptied them into a large container and netted them then, now that I think about it)

My danios seem much better today however. The white one is still a bit uncomfortable looking but much better than last night. Maybe it will just take some time. Ill introduce new fish very slowly after these ones get settled


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

never dump petstore water in your tank!!


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## allaboutfish (May 18, 2011)

never dump petstore water in your tank!! id do a huge water change to get whatever was in that water out


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

allaboutfish said:


> never dump petstore water in your tank!! id do a huge water change to get whatever was in that water out


Could this be why my water is going cloudy? I did a 25 percent this morning, ill do a 75 tomorrow morning. What could be causing this cloudyness?


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

allaboutfish said:


> never dump petstore water in your tank!! id do a huge water change to get whatever was in that water out


It really depends if the pet store keeps rotting and diseased fish with what they sell (Walmart, Petsmart, Pet... etc..)

Otherwise it's fine to use some of the water that way they won't be so stressed when getting into a new tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Pigeonfish said:


> It really depends if the pet store keeps rotting and diseased fish with what they sell (Walmart, Petsmart, Pet... etc..)
> 
> Otherwise it's fine to use some of the water that way they won't be so stressed when getting into a new tank.


Theoritically you might be right, however, its not a good idea regardless. Even if I ordered fish from a breeder that I know has good tanks, I don't want that water in my tank. It will not help with stress because the volume of your tank will far exceed what was in the bag. The way to deal with stress is with proper acclimation, like the drip method.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Theoritically you might be right, however, its not a good idea regardless. Even if I ordered fish from a breeder that I know has good tanks, I don't want that water in my tank. It will not help with stress because the volume of your tank will far exceed what was in the bag. The way to deal with stress is with proper acclimation, like the drip method.


I was gonna do that, I have an air pump tube and a bucket, will that work? How long should I keep it there?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Pigeonfish said:


> I was gonna do that, I have an air pump tube and a bucket, will that work? How long should I keep it there?


If you're referring to drip acclimation, you won't need any type of pump. Syphon action will more than cover it. Here is an instructional thread I did a while back. If you have any questions, let me know. 
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Another note on the water in the bag.Even if its from a reputable breeder like Ben said,you have to take into consideration how long the fish has been in that water.Waste builds up quickly in there.
Drip acclimation is the way to go,regardless of the fish.It will ensure they will get used to your water while not introducing the icky stuff they were in to the tank.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Theoritically you might be right, however, its not a good idea regardless. Even if I ordered fish from a breeder that I know has good tanks, I don't want that water in my tank. It will not help with stress because the volume of your tank will far exceed what was in the bag. The way to deal with stress is with proper acclimation, like the drip method.


Do you have any more information on drip acclimation? Rohkey went into a bit of detail already. Can you elaborate for me?

Thanks


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

kestik said:


> Do you have any more information on drip acclimation? Rohkey went into a bit of detail already. Can you elaborate for me?
> 
> Thanks


What kind of info are you looking for? The thread on how to do it is linked a couple of posts above this one. There is some info in the thread.


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## kestik (Jul 5, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> What kind of info are you looking for? The thread on how to do it is linked a couple of posts above this one. There is some info in the thread.


Sorry, I was on my phone and didn't get to see that post. Taking a look at it now! Thanks again


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