# discus eggs in community tank



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It would appear(I just noticed) that 2 of my 8 discus have placed eggs on the outside of my overflow! What should I do(besides not much) or better phrased; what can I do to save the fry?They are in my 180g that is well packed(nice way of saying very crowded).Can I syphonn the fry out after they hatch?I guess I should research raising/breeding discus.I have plenty of tanks but kinda think/thought(first guess without research)that fry stay with parents and feed off slime coating for a while?I am totally caught off gaurd.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

If your community fish are not bothering them the parents are very good about caring and raising the young...but you must know something to prevent an accidental swollowing of the young...no surprise activity by you or anyone in you home to scare the parents once the fish have hatched....they feed mostly on the body slim of parents in early stages, but you can if other fish are removed from tank...you can feed them on infusia till big enough for baby brine shrimp. You are very lucky to have a breeding pair and it would be a good idea to get a tank just for them in the future...I wouldn't press my luck right now. I take it these are not wild discus as they don't tend to breed in general water conditions. and don't change your water parameters now that that are proven to breed in those conditions. Go online to discus sites especially from breeders who often offer suggestions for the event. Now your work is cut out, but worthwhile. You can really get to enjoy this event but keep activities around tank at low key...they swollow the young when a threat is made. and they also do that to clean the baby fish so don't panic if they take in a big mouth full...just wait and see if they release them. What kind of discus do you have and where did you get them... post pictures if you can and try to get as much prep as possible between now and hatchings. PS don't attempt to syphon them out and I wouldn't make changes unless you see a problem develop that no way can it get around without some disturbance...if you must do that get it done before they hatch is my opinion but others who may be breeder could offer better information on this subject. big good luck. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks L.T. nice to hear from you not contradicting me!I have done some research and will guess that this clutch has slim chances(being in community tank), but am super phsyched as ,you mentioned "I have a pair".
Ironically I keep them in untreated(no buffer/or adjustment)water with pH of 7.4-7.6.This to may effect the outcome as keeping discus and raising fry(successfully)do actually require different water parameters from what I've read.I also read the fry will be moved around tank by parents and feed off slime(in scales) from the adult.I guess I'll be setting up another tank(probably a 40 or 30 breeder) and adjust adults to my RO/DI after they complete there business.I got my discus(all 8)from what I call my #1 LFS.They don't get discus all the time as they strive for quality.When they arrive they QT them for1-2 weeks before selling.As soon as they are sellable they go fast.The pair are blue scribbled(not real name/nor is the bold red universe That I have two of).I probably should have suspected as the parents and B.R.U. have not been friendly to each other as of lately.There are pictures in my gallery(discus) taken today(hope they show what I see).Appreciate your input, and again "I am phsyched!", as breeding or being able to breed(having anything breed is a sign of keeping well done) brings me the greatest satisfaction and helps with my attempt to "always return more than I take."Wouldn't mind adding DISCUS BREEDER to my signature either!


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

They feed them from a slim that is on the surface or the body outside the scales. If your other tank fish are peaceful types and you have no harmful night feeders there is a chance the discus can raise them and yes they will move them around some. I would suggest a minimum or 40g breeder tank and the taller the better...if you can afford larger it won't hurnt...here is were you must pic carefully discus when moved will not usually breed for a period of time, and they like clay flat surfaces...so most use clay planting pots. and most breeders don't use a gavel or substrate in the breeder tank. I definately would move them once the clutch is taken care of one way or other. Once they get large enough about the size of a pea or just under... and eat live foods I would try to collect up and move some of the fish, for at that age the parents won't suck them in. You must keep an eye from day to day to determine if any fish day or night is after the young and try to remove that fish if possible...a Sheet of plastic or glass can be used to issolate the discus from the rest of the fish...but clean the glass with salt water no detergent. I hope this can be done since it will be the best to protect the fish till they reach a transfer age...but must do it while they are in the egg state for the least risk of loss. Larry


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

I cannot tell for sure but it looks like brown discus. First discus I had were wild browns, and went to peruvian wild greens that I was trying to develop a matched pair, and felt I came very close but they never did make a mating pair...just a lot of communication. The green discus is a real surprise, for their color is drab green...you cannot even see the bars, but when making a display, they will turn colors from golden brown to yellowish orange with purple bars...neatest thing I ever saw a discus fish do.
Is your fish the brown discus fish Coralbandit.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

It's a nice tank and your going to have to mess it up to issolate the discus eggs...you do have dangerous fish with your discus eggs, and they will always be a threat. Not much else you can do but issolate in community tank. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for info and compliments on tank L.T. .I was just about to remove all plants and exchange them with healthy(as BBA is on an upswing at this time) when I noticed eggs.The tank is crowded but through breeding swords for so long(many have come directly out of this tank) feel the only real trouble makers(likely to eat young) are the two kio angles and possibly my clown loaches.The clown loaches seem to only desire eating any nice plant I try to have in with them,never really showed interest in fry.The angels on the other hand are true fry predators without a doubt.My reading says sometimes the parents fail the first couple of tries(to raise fry properly) so with that info and a well packed tank I'm sorry to say if the fry make it great/and if they don't one should not expect breeding success under the conditions they are in.I will however look into a breeder tank for my lovely pair(thinking 75g or 120 with dual overflows{not to used during fry time}) at this point.With all this good news(breeding discus is good news to me no matter this outcome{I will prepare to help them be sucessful) comes a little bad news;I found the smallest of my discus dead this a.m.I make no joke that I don't feel these fish are kind to each other and can only hope that this is due to defensive behavior as I stated the parents are being quite brutal to others of there species at this point.There coloring is off in pics(I muffled the flash/dark pics)but when happy in good light the parents have a lot of blue"scribbles" on them.They do as you stated change and as of late they seem rather colorless,and very defensive possibly due to eggs and there enviroment.It is exciting none the less,I hope to get pics of fry in early stages atleast,and am searching and trying to think of best tank to rehome pair in.Thanks again,this is a learning experience for me (as are most days) ,this one is just more exciting.New pics up today seems some show more color,and the angel who will enjoy the fry the most(this time).


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Coralbandit I believe I saw an oscar and he will eat anything it can put its mouth around...I may have been looking at the wrong tank, for what I saw had a basket weave structure with viewing ports like windows, of aquarium glass, now I don't see that type of tank... Larry


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Coralbandit, this morning before coffeeeeee, I looked at the pictures of what I thought was your community tank, and definately saw an oscar firsh...after returning home from out of town shopping I not only cannot see any oscars in your tank (by the way a great looking tank), and the tank I saw was like a basket weave housing with viewing ports...and now that picture is no where to be found...I think my 5 hour drive has gone to my head. Perhaps another cup of coffee my help. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

no oscars(ever) nor basket weave(I don't think).I posted new pictures today of the discus(with a little better color).For the most part my tank(all of them) house peaceful fish (which I feel is also part of keeping healthy fish),as no community needs a bully.Possibly you saw one of my three honey gouramis as when I bred them I kept a few and they have grown larger(considerably) than either of their parents.I think the biggest(not by size) threat to the fry will be my two med/small angels.I see them wanting sword fry(in my catch container) the few times I get any out of this tank,since their arrival.I plan on doing thorough research tonight and probably ordering a large(120g) tank to give them an honest chance.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Looking back at the pictures, I don't see any that would make me think I saw an oscar, and the tank you have is not the one I saw...You have some nice discus and that tank of yours is great....big.....wow...Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

further research indicates that the eggs may not even hatch due to my water pH(7.6)and hardness(0gh,3-4 kh).The hardness shouldn't really be a problem ,but possibly the ph is to high. All reading indicates 48-60 hrs for egss to hatch so possibly this evening or tonight(the night hatching makes survival sense to me).Read alot last night, so maybe not such a big tank for breeding,or I run with 75/120 and divide it and try my Bold Red Universe along side.Also read of all the diffaculties after hatch(there are several).So I'll see if these eggs are even fertile and what happens here.Got my fingers crossed the parents are fertile(water quality may skew my observation though) and moving parents and adjusting parents back to lower pH(tank originally was 6.8-7pH a couple months ago)when I mixed my RO/DI ,but my kh was undetectable.I have and tried kent RO right but found it raised my pH back up,so I just stopped adjusting.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Actually, they should hatch, and the variety of discus you have is likely domestic breed and why they are willing to breed with ease. Actually I'm very happy for you and really think dividing the tank is possible and it's larger enough to accomidate all your fish even being divided....but a future breed tank would be much better and who knows where this experience will take you...perhaps if you learn to ship live discus you could be come a breeder.On this hatching and water you are concerned about the water hardness has some impact on egg case quality and alkalin water has more bacteria than acidic, but the adults will fan the eggs and pic off the casings that turn white...if they remain clear thru today...your clutch will likely hatch. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

OK; if all things have been going well it's just about hatching time.Here's where I'm at(the eggs).About 25% have turned white,not a good sign; either unfertalised or affected(infected) by a fungas(common).I actually work(a little) so was gone most of this a.m. but came home to far less eggs.Seems like the white eggs(bad/no good) are still there so I'll assume the parents did not eat them. The parents are still tending the eggs that remain.I see no fry(and realise they would be very small and diffacult to veiw{especially in large tank}), but notice a convergense of other seemingly interested fish in the egg area(notably my clown loaches and gouramis{I will keep clowns no matter what ,but the three gouramis I've kept(all males) serve no purpose so they'll be on the "to the LFS list "with next batch of swords).I'm mostly watching to see if they hatch at all.There is the chance that both discus could be females(although some healthy eggs seem to override this notion{some are appearently fertalised) which also confirms there should be no fertillity issue.As I stated before;besides being totally caught off guard,I don't expect the best outcome with the conditions that I have.So watching and hoping they hatch(they don't have to survive for this to be a win for me).I'm not heartless just semi realistic.On the semi note;I ordered a 48"x24" 120 gallon dual overflow tank(mostly)for them today.It arrives next Wednesday so by next weekend I will be able to separate them.I have a few ideas on how to "efficiently" use this tank ,so I'll explain more later when I'm more dedicated to path I will follow.More to come as I watch my eggs today/tonight.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Coralbandit, I forgot all about that both could be females....that does happen (it's been many years since those days...sorry forgot) And as you said chances are slim even if they hatch that they will survive in a communty tank, but it has happened however the parents were rather aggressive for a discus. If your fish show signs of serious defence effort it is possible. I really hope you have a successful brewed...IMO there is nothing more interesting than watching discus parent a clutch of fry...it's a marvel of tentive fish care. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't think they're both female but that was one of many things I read aboout last night at NADA(north american discus association) a great source of info I seek.As I mentioned I have odered a 120 with dual overflows and think that possibly I could divide that and place a pair on each side.I wouldn't run the overflows during fry time but before and after I could still manage the high water quality needed.My two bold red universe(fantastic looking) seem possibly to be male and female.No real indication (true confirmation) yet ,but behavior ,size and interaction leave me possibly too hopeful.Either way seeing that not all eggs went white leads to believe they were fertalised and a seperate tank, with ample space and good water is the least I can do(I'd like to do the most I can).Still watching to see just one wiggler and I'll know I'm on a good path.
Thanks,Tom


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

I think you have a good handle on how to deal with the discus, and believe like you there are a matched pair not two females. As of today are the eggs doing OK...by that I mean are there still a lot of the them turning white. Assuming they were fertilized there must be water movement on the eggs to promote an oxygen rich area. When I had an Angelfish pair lay eggs...the first time they ate the eggs, so when next time they laid the eggs I removed the slate an put it in a seperate tank where I put a bubble stream of air and I removed any white eggs...I did loose a great percentage of the eggs, but did get many to hatch...My point being if the parent fish are not properly caring for the eggs...(stay close and move the water around, and they should remove the white eggs as that will promote a fungus to attack good eggs in close proxematy). If they don't do these things it will or should improve the next time they lay eggs....For them it's like an experience and they learn from their mistakes. Larry


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

All eggs are gone.48 hours is the hatch time(under proper conditions).The parents did tend the eggs, fanning,mouthing and defending ,but did not remove the white ones(quickly at least).They are still defensive of the territory as one of my bold red universe is always intruding.Reading suggest that a second"dominate" male encourages better parental behavior.As you mentioned the parents do learn(from mistakes,or experience) and this was part of my not expecting 100% success.I'm looking for even 1 fry(wiggler) and may have seen one or a coulpe,but they're so small(smaller than eggs) that it's a little harder than finding sword fry.The eggs were slightly oval last night/evening(changing shape adjusting to fry).I feel 66-75% hatched only 1/3 at most turned turned white(possibly not fertalised{missed},or fungas;again common).I 've read many experienced breeders use methalyne blue to "treat" eggs in the beginning with good success to combat fungas,may try this on next clutch.As I said the parents seemed to a wonderful job(first time) and are still defensive of the territory,as fry may still be close ,if not eaten or sucked in by overflow(has slots on top/middle/bottom).Overall a sucess in my book and will be working on stand for their new tank and gathering accessories to have them movable by next weekend.They may from my reading actually lay eggs again before then ,as reading suggest eggs are possible every week for a 15 week cycle,twice a year!I appreciate your interest and getting to talk about it,as this is exciting to me and plan on continueing efforts towards hatch and raising in the near future.More to come.
Thanks, Tom


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

LIKE CLOCKWORK! My 120 g came in yesterday, so I picked it up today.While I was unloading it a "steak guy" stopped by to try to sell me steaks.I told him he had perfect timming and he politely offered to help bring the 200lb 48/24/24 monster in my house!I bought a few steaks and he really did help me bring it in(to my basement!).Shortly after that(which turned out to be so much easier than doing it alone) UPS dropped my pump,heaters and accessories(from Kensfish) at my door.I am phsyched again ,still.Will be setting up for possible inhabitation by Sat/Sun.The discus are still hanging in original spawn site(cleaning spot), but have not layed eggs again yet(she seems to be getting plumper).Possibly everything is aligning and I may have my beautiful pair in their spacious new home in time for round two.More to come!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So I went on a long trip with trying to breed these discus,in my 120 then moved to a 55(http://www.aquariumforum.com/f44/new-120-up-running-41349.html ) .They spawned almost weekly before taking their break and starting again.I had no real sucess as they either ate the eggs(most of the time) or ate the fry 3-4 times.I tried seperating the male(didn't help),I even tried changin my male which didn't really work any better either.so last week I finally got all my discus back in my 180.
Today what do you think I see?Eggs on the overflow,BUT with a totally different female and the second male I tried both gaurding.So this is a totaly different pair and definately the females first batch.I can't jump to move them ,not sure how fast I would/will move them, but thought that I would share .The female is a dark blue pigeon? and the male is a bold red universe.
The eggs will never survive in the 180(pH 7.6 and extremely active,crowded tank{other large fast fish}).But if they keep this up I will have to try these two in a seperate breeding tank soon.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

again today I find this second pair of discus have laid eggs in my 180 community.They actually gaurded the first set rather well.I find this second set of eggs to have come very quickly.The other pair did lay eggs almost every 7 days once they got going but did take almost 30 days inbetween their first and second set of eggs.
So it would seem these are deserving to be placed in the 55 in an attempt to spawn them.
In the last week the original pair also laid eggs on the opposite end of the tank.They didn't seem as defensive(like the second pair),but it really must be the "season" for many egg layers,as my GBR ,angels(2 females{both laid eggs}),and my discus have been busy!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It would seem the "spirit of competition" or season have taken effect and the original pair have laid eggs again.These two pair are laying eggs so often now I can't keep track of time inbetween without backtracking this thread(beauty of this site).I will leave both pair in 180 for a little while longer and then move both pair to the 55 with an eggcrate divider to seperate.Possibly with the "competition" and safety of having their own space I will finally have different results.When I move them I will post in the http://www.aquariumforum.com/f44/new-120-up-running-41349.html


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