# Nitrates off the charts!!!



## nunupeke (Dec 10, 2011)

The nitrate levels in my tank are maxing out my test kit every time.
The water I use when I do water changes have very low levels of nitrate.
I try to do 20% water changes every week or every other but nitrates still rise. 
I was thinking of putting in plants to help but then I would have to buy a new lighting system. So my question is,
Would there be a big difference in nitrate levels after adding plants to my aquarium?
I dont want to buy a $200 lighting system and the plants dont help lower nitrates much.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Plants would definitely help. I am looking to put plants in my 10 gallon (when I get it up and running ), and everyone has continuously suggested that I use live over fake plants.

#1 -- Live plants will eat up harmful toxins in your tank. 
#2 -- They look better. Every time I compare a planted tank vs. fake plants the planted tank always looks better.

As far of lighting goes you may not need to buy a $200 lighting system. Depending on your current lighting situation and what plants and lights you want to put in determines what you need. Low light, low tech, and low maintenance plants require different lights than high light, high tech, and high maintenance plants. 

You may just need to switch out the bulbs you use for lighting.

Again I am a first goer at live plants too, but everyone has highly suggested them and I personally think they look better and they are proven to help the tank in terms of removing harmful toxins.

I am sure someone with more experience than I will recommend a fantastic course of action.

Good luck and welcome to the forums.


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## TypeYourTextHere (Apr 20, 2011)

nunupeke said:


> The nitrate levels in my tank are maxing out my test kit every time.
> The water I use when I do water changes have very low levels of nitrate.
> I try to do 20% water changes every week or every other but nitrates still rise.
> I was thinking of putting in plants to help but then I would have to buy a new lighting system. So my question is,
> ...


As I understand it your tap water has Nitrates in it, correct? If this is the case I suggest getting a large barrel to hold water for your WCs. Fill it and let it sit for a couple of days and the chlorine with dissipate and hopefully the nitrates will die off. Plus you won't have to use dechlorinator anymore. Have you tested for anything other than Nitrates? I would at least google your towns annual water report and see what it reports is your local water supply as well.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello nun...

The following will help: You need to be removing a minimum of half the tank water every week. If you're going to the trouble of getting out the equipment for a water change, then change it! A 20 percent change is about as good as no change at all. The more water you change and the more often you change it, the better. IMO, you don't need to be concerned with testing if you do your large, weekly water changes. Again, if you faithfully remove and replace at least half the tank water weekly, testing isn't necessary. 

When you've removed half the water, add a couple of stem plants like Water wisteria and Pennywort. These will feed on the added nitrates and don't need expensive lights to grow well.

I want to beat this drum again...

Your only responsibility is to be a good "waterkeeper", so flush a lot of clean, treated water through your tank weekly and your plants and fish will be healthy.

Tank keeping is really as simple as that!

B


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## TypeYourTextHere (Apr 20, 2011)

The only issue I see with BBradbury's suggestion with large WCs(50%+) is a PH issue. The last time I did a 60% WC is the PH swing was so great that I lost about 15 fish due to PH shock. Fortunately they were only $1 each.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

TypeYourTextHere said:


> The only issue I see with BBradbury's suggestion with large WCs(50%+) is a PH issue. The last time I did a 60% WC is the PH swing was so great that I lost about 15 fish due to PH shock. Fortunately they were only $1 each.


If that is true, you have some other issue going on with your water. You should test your kh and see where it sits. If your ph is crashing just from a water change you have to have a very low kh, but you should be sure. Crushed coral will hold it steady but will also raise your ph some.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Definitely need some large water changes to get the level down. A 20% change will not make an impact on what the level is currently. You need to do a couple of 50% changes a couple of days in a row. Cut your feeding level some. 

What does your tap test out to?


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## GreatLakesAquaria (Sep 18, 2011)

Here is a calculator to help figure out how much water to change to get down to an acceptable level

Effective Water Change Calculator


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

nunupeke said:


> The nitrate levels in my tank are maxing out my test kit every time.
> The water I use when I do water changes have very low levels of nitrate.
> I try to do 20% water changes every week or every other but nitrates still rise.
> I was thinking of putting in plants to help but then I would have to buy a new lighting system. So my question is,
> ...


Plants can/will maintain nitrates at unmeasureable levels unless you have an ammonia spike. Which that ammonia spike is being consumed by the plats nitrates can bump up. then return to 0 after the spike is taken care of.

You should not need $200 worth of lights to grow plants. I don't spend more than $50 (max) on any of my tanks which include 10g, 20g, 30g, and 55g.

my .02


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Plants definitely make a difference. I've been lazy about water changes on my technically overstocked, heavily planted 20 gallon long tank lately, but I was pleasantly surprised to find 0 nitrates after 2 weeks of no water changes. Just topping off once a week. My 10 gallon fry tank always has some level of nitrates and I've had to maintain the weekly 25% water changes to keep it under control. I may have to up that to twice a week. I do have plants in it, but only a couple of floating plants for the fry.


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## nunupeke (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks for all of the help. But my tank is still messed up. Im gonna post up some water parameters of my tank, my water from garden hose, and what Ive been noticing the past couple days. Any info that can help me with this tank would be greatly appreciated!

So I have a freshwater 55 gallon tank with 4 four inch gouramis and a 1 inch oscar. I did 50% water changes for 3-4 days straight to get my nitrates down. But about a week later my nitrates maxed out my test kit at +100ppm... ( I fed them very little in this time to see how my nitrates were reacting.)

I cleaned my magnum 350 canister and HOB filter, then did a 50% water change. Next day +100ppm nitrates... 

Tests from 2 days after cleaning filters

*garden hose*
pH - 7.5
Nitrates - 10

*Tank *
pH - 7.5
Nitrates - +100

I never got to test ammonia because my test leaked everywhere. I might buy one today and let you guys know the levels. 



Does anyone have any ideas to why my nitrates rise really fast? *Conf*


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

nunupeke said:


> Thanks for all of the help. But my tank is still messed up. Im gonna post up some water parameters of my tank, my water from garden hose, and what Ive been noticing the past couple days. Any info that can help me with this tank would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> So I have a freshwater 55 gallon tank with 4 four inch gouramis and a 1 inch oscar. I did 50% water changes for 3-4 days straight to get my nitrates down. But about a week later my nitrates maxed out my test kit at +100ppm... ( I fed them very little in this time to see how my nitrates were reacting.)
> 
> ...


because your tank is producing nitrates that fast. 

With no plants consuming nitrates that is to be expected. *old dude

my .02


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I only have about 3 java ferns in my tank, and the only light it gets it from the patio door and the cieling light, so those would even be a good alternative. I only do 30% water changes about once a week and normally I'm at 30-40 Nitrates. Imo, you need to stop feeding for a few days and do water changes. With a tank that size with those fish, You might be overfeeding. Plants would def. help though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

nunupeke said:


> The nitrate levels in my tank are maxing out my test kit every time.
> The water I use when I do water changes have very low levels of nitrate.
> I try to do 20% water changes every week or every other but nitrates still rise.
> I was thinking of putting in plants to help but then I would have to buy a new lighting system. So my question is,
> ...


with live plants it is entirely possible (expected even) after the cycle to have unmeasureable nitrates and phosphates. regardless ofthe water changes or the nitrates in the replacement water.

You also should not require a $200 fixture unless you have a very very large aquarium.

check out the link in my signature.

still just my .02


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## nunupeke (Dec 10, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> with live plants it is entirely possible (expected even) after the cycle to have unmeasureable nitrates and phosphates. regardless ofthe water changes or the nitrates in the replacement water.
> 
> You also should not require a $200 fixture unless you have a very very large aquarium.
> 
> ...


I just dont get it. I dont have a lot of fish and if anything Ive been underfeeding them for the last two weeks. Nitrates shouldnt rise that fast should they?

I always heard about java fern but I never seen any for sale. I guess im gonna put a bunch of that in my tank and see if they survive. 

How do people get away with fish only tanks? Like people that only have oscars?


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

To avoid any Nitrate contamination from your tap water, make all water replacements and water changes with Bottled Drinking Water or Distilled Water. Both these sources should have zero Nitrates.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

There is nothing that is expected when it comes to nitrates continuously rising as long as decent sized weekly water changes are occurring as they should be. 35-50% should be done and if you have a high bio-load for your tank size you should be doing the higher level. Plants can help for sure.

Are you sure of your water source? I would test your water daily before your water change to make sure it is still reading zero. I would also do a 75% water change everyday until my nitrates got down in the 40ppm or so range. If you do a few of those and it can't get there, your source has to have nitrates in it. RO or distilled water is an option but doing for every water change can make your tank dangerous in maintaining a stable ph.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Not to mention that no fish can survive in completely distilled water. Are you using an API liquid test kit? If so, are you sure that your following every step to a tee when testing the nitrates, it is the most complicated test out of the kit. You sure your shaking the bottle and test tube as long as you should be? Honestly, from what you have said, it doesn't make sense for you to have such high nitrates.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Well JCCACLIMBERS post would make alot more sense to me if I would of payed more attention in Math class all those years ago.*r2*r2

Start by doing some huge water changes to get the readings down to 10-20 range then see how long it takes to build up again, could be your just not changing enough water. Also eventually that Oscar is going to want the tank to himself, but you got some time till then.


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## Redtail84 (Jan 23, 2012)

Throwing in some anacharis or other floating plants could definitely help, plus the gouramis will love them and there's no worry about the oscar rearranging anything planted in the substrate. Even my local petsmart has anacharis bunches. Also, as stated, make sure you are using the test properly. Shake for the instructed amount of time, and hold the cap on the test tube tightly (mine leaks if I don't hold it tightly).


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

jccaclimber said:


> I'll simplify it for you. I assumed that the OP (per the original post is doing 20% weekly water changes.
> From this I concluded that 50% weekly changes will solve his problem, even with nitrates in the tap water.
> I also pointed out that I suspect overfeeding to be an issue.


I got what you said, I was just cracking a joke on myself, hence the rolling on floor laughing guy. Didnt mean to offend your post sorry.
And I agree I think what he needs is bigger WC's


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Redtail84 said:


> Throwing in some anacharis or other floating plants could definitely help, plus the gouramis will love them and there's no worry about the oscar rearranging anything planted in the substrate. Even my local petsmart has anacharis bunches. Also, as stated, make sure you are using the test properly. Shake for the instructed amount of time, and hold the cap on the test tube tightly (mine leaks if I don't hold it tightly).


You sure your not just shaking too hard? 
*r2


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

nunupeke said:


> I just dont get it. I dont have a lot of fish and if anything Ive been underfeeding them for the last two weeks. Nitrates shouldnt rise that fast should they?


if your tank is increasing nitrates at 1ppm/day and you do a 10% water change every 10 days, the tank will windup with 100ppm nitrates just before the water changes. then down to 90ppm and back up to 100 before the next water change.


> I always heard about java fern but I never seen any for sale. I guess im gonna put a bunch of that in my tank and see if they survive.
> 
> How do people get away with fish only tanks? Like people that only have oscars?


IMHO massive frequent water changes. like 100% every week or so.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> if your tank is increasing nitrates at 1ppm/day and you do a 10% water change every 10 days, the tank will windup with 100ppm nitrates just before the water changes. then down to 90ppm and back up to 100 before the next water change.


Great point....this is why you never do a 10% change. 10% is nearly the weekly evaporation rate. 35-50% is preferred...the difference is it doesn't matter if you are planted or not - same recommeneded maintenance.



beaslbob said:


> IMHO massive frequent water changes. like 100% every week or so.


Slightly lower.....nice try though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> ...
> 
> Slightly lower.....nice try though.


Guess it's all relative. In my case anything is massive. *old dude

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

FWIW again assuming 10 day water changes with a 1 ppm/day nitrate increase these levels apply

change___before____after_____before next
1/10_____100_______90________100
1/3_______30_______20________30
1/2_______20_______10________20
all________10_______00________10

my .02


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## nunupeke (Dec 10, 2011)

Manafel said:


> Are you using an API liquid test kit? If so, are you sure that your following every step to a tee when testing the nitrates, it is the most complicated test out of the kit. You sure your shaking the bottle and test tube as long as you should be? Honestly, from what you have said, it doesn't make sense for you to have such high nitrates.


Im using tetra test. I follow every step, shake for how long it says, and I wait how long it says to before reading it. Thats exactly what im thinking, this doesnt make sense...




jccaclimber said:


> An additional thought:
> Contrary to popular belief fish tanks don't produce nitrates from thin air (or water). They nitrogen sources is fish, and the fish (which shouldn't be shrinking) are getting it from food. If your fish load isn't too high (I don't feel it is) then it's quite possible that you are over-feeding them.


I know how the nitrogen cycle works. uneaten food and fish waste turn into ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates. Im only feeding them pinches, I see them eat everything. And I only had 4 gouramis in there. They cant be pooping that much. 
The only thing I can think of is that the water from outside has ammonia in it. Im gonna buy a test kit today and let you guys know. 




Redtail84 said:


> Throwing in some anacharis or other floating plants could definitely help, plus the gouramis will love them and there's no worry about the oscar rearranging anything planted in the substrate.


I threw in some anacharis about 2 weeks ago. I never tried floating it but they died...


As I stated earlier "I did 50% water changes for 3-4 days straight to get my nitrates down. But about a week later my nitrates maxed out my test kit at +100ppm..." So its not that I have to do more or bigger water changes, something else is wrong. 

I only have two fish in my 55 gallon now. Some died and some are in a different tank because they are sick. If the nitrates keep going off the charts with two gouramis in it I dont know what to do. 

Thanks for all the help! Ill let you know if I figure out whats wrong.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

+1 ^ you mentioned you put in some Anacahris and it died, did you clean out all the dead leaves? I have some of this too and although it grows well at the end the leaves down by the "root" end tend to die off regularlly make sure you get out all the dead material.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

hanky said:


> +1 ^ you mentioned you put in some Anacahris and it died, did you clean out all the dead leaves? I have some of this too and although it grows well at the end the leaves down by the "root" end tend to die off regularlly make sure you get out all the dead material.




+2

IMHO it's even more basic than that.

You can't get plants to live and have nitrates.

should be enough said.

Get the plants to live and problem solved. May take some kind of refugium but still thriving plants solve the problem. 

Which is why in my tanks nitrates and phosphates were unmeasurable in both Fw and marine tanks.

still just my .02


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

The only thing I can think of is maybe someone (or a cat) peeing in your tank behind your back.
cb


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> +2
> 
> IMHO it's even more basic than that.
> 
> ...


That makes no sense. You can't get plants to live without nitrates. Without it, they will die.

Not sure what you meant to say or how you meant to say it, but your wording has to be wrong.

And with your unmeasurable nitrates comes the horrible looking plants you keep in your tank as your gallery shows. They are anemic of sorts and they are suffering.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> That makes no sense. You can't get plants to live without nitrates. Without it, they will die.
> 
> Not sure what you meant to say or how you meant to say it, but your wording has to be wrong.
> 
> And with your unmeasurable nitrates comes the horrible looking plants you keep in your tank as your gallery shows. They are anemic of sorts and they are suffering.


If the plants were thriving, growing rapidily, and the tank was mature, ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates would not be "off the charts".

even if temporiarly out of whack with no ammonia (plants consuming) and high nitrates, in a few weeks nitrates would not remain off the charts.

to me that is a direct cause and effect.

Get the plants thriving and the nitrates will not remain at "being off the charts".

Regardless of what else is happening.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> If the plants were thriving, growing rapidily, and the tank was mature, ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates would not be "off the charts".
> 
> even if temporiarly out of what with no ammonia (plants consuming) and high nitrates, in a few weeks nitrates would not remain off the charts.
> 
> ...


Like I said, it was the way you were saying it. You don't say what you meant or how you meant it, but I can see what you were trying to say. However, not terribly difficult to achieve high nitrates in a planted tank. Plants will consume less than 10ppm per day...and that is on a high light tank where they use them up the fastest.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Perhaps we need to determine why the plants aren't thriving. solve that and the nitrates won't be off the charts.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

I've had terrible luck with Anacahris. Try Sunset Hyrgo or Ludwiga Hybrid. They grow like weeds and are pretty, I can grow in high light, low light, sideways, upsidedown, in dirt, in gravel, floating. 

Also, what substrate ya goT? Any missing fish? Cut back feeding by 1/2 for couple weeks and see if that impacts. Are you adding anything to the tank other than food/water ?


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## nunupeke (Dec 10, 2011)

clep.berry said:


> The only thing I can think of is maybe someone (or a cat) peeing in your tank behind your back.
> cb


That is possible, I have three cats and one of them is always looking at the tank! :cat_dreams_fish: jk



FishFlow said:


> I've had terrible luck with Anacahris. Try Sunset Hyrgo or Ludwiga Hybrid. They grow like weeds and are pretty, I can grow in high light, low light, sideways, upsidedown, in dirt, in gravel, floating.
> 
> Also, what substrate ya goT? Any missing fish? Cut back feeding by 1/2 for couple weeks and see if that impacts. Are you adding anything to the tank other than food/water ?


I just have regular gravel. No missing fish. Not adding anything to the tank. Ill look into those plants. Thanks. 

Ammonia tested 0, I added some anacharis floating, and I cleaned the glass hood to try get as much light through. 
Now I know I need plants, I just have to get them to grow!


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