# I'm at a loss... should I start over?



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

This is long, but it explains things from the beginning, so you can have an idea of how to help: Basically, my initial fishless cycle got stalled (from mid week 2 to week 5) because of the use of Nitrazorb. It was removed, but the cycle never re-started... it stayed stalled. Then, (in week 5) the water got really cloudy because of dead algae that fell off of ornaments, and after 4 days it still wouldn't settle. (Took all ornaments and fake plants out. All that's in there now is the gravel, 2 filter outlets, heater, thermometer and airstone/tubing). Everything got rinsed before going into tank - including the tank. Water is at 84-86 degrees to help speed up bacteria growth.

My next step was a 90% WC (in week 6) and gravel vacuum to get as much of the 'fluff' off of it as possible. I had to squeeze out the filter media as well, as it was incredibly clogged with the dead algae.

I refilled the tank, and threw an old 10g sponge back into the water (it was there previously). The day after the WC, the water read .50ppm ammonia, so I dosed it to get it back to 4ppm and start the cycle again. Well, since then it's been 6 days.

The ammonia has not budged from 4ppm (one night it showed 1ppm but then the next it was back at 4ppm, so I'm assuming I made a mistake during testing.) After the WC the Nitrites were at .05 - .10ppm and the Nitrates were at 20ppm.

Since then ammonia has stayed at 4ppm for 6 days, the nitrites have slowly risen to .25ppm and the Nitrates have risen to 40-80ppm. None of this makes sense, because if the NitrItes and NitrAtes are rising, then the Ammonia should be dropping! :fish9:

I've also done multiple filter media squeezings from my 10g tank, and also put the old carbon from the 10g into the new filter. NOTHING is helping!

Should I just tear the tank down, scrub and rinse everything and start again, or do I just "keep waiting?" I feel like I'm wasting really expensive water tests here! (This is week 7 here people!!) When I originally started my cycle, the ammonia was dropping daily. I'm so glad that others on here are having such good luck cycling their tanks, but I mean, come on!!! 7 weeks!!!! Everyone else is doing it in like 3!!!! PLEASE HELP ME BEFORE I SERIOUSLY GIVE UP ON THIS TANK!!!!! *I have used strip tests AND liquid tests, so it's not a problem with the test media. I also use bacterial boosters. I know some people think they are a waste, but at this point, I'll try anything, lolol! (That was insane laughter!!)

Thank you for listening to my rant, and thank you for your advice. 

P.S. Thank you all for being so patient with me. I've posted about this before, but figured I'd post the entire problem, from start to now so it's all in one post.


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

Holly have you tried pulling all the decorations out of the tank to see if it might be something caused by one of them? Have you tried a different type of water test, like test strips? Have you thought about sticking a fish in there, something like a comet goldfish? If you have a bottle of safestart, or some other bacterial starter, have you tried pouring in maybe 4-5 times the recommended dose? I'm just giving you ideas. I'm no expert by any means. Good luck!!!


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## pjones (Jun 5, 2011)

*blue sorry So sorry to hear Holly.

I will leave the opnions to people better suited, I cycled my tank with plants and a black molly


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Thank you for your suggestions!!

I edited the post a bit to answer some of your questions for other people who read it. 

Yes, I took all decor out of the tank. I've tried test strips and liquid strips. I do add bacteria starters, but haven't overdosed them yet... it's worth a try!! I have not put a fish in there yet, since the ammonia is at 4ppm (I figured it would last about 5 mins in there, lol.)

Maybe I'll try adding more bacterial boosters!


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

What about doing a water change, and then adding a bunch of Anacharis. It will get rid of your nitrites...

API also makes something called Ammo-Lock, but I don't know how it actually works. (ex. turns ammonia into nitrites faster?)


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

Holly have you thought about lowering the temp to maybe 76-78*? Just a thought.... Sounds like trying anything different is worth the experiment. Hang in there! Casey


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

PapaM said:


> Holly have you thought about lowering the temp to maybe 76-78*? Just a thought.... Sounds like trying anything different is worth the experiment. Hang in there! Casey


Actually turning up the temperature to 80 (26c) will speed up the metabolism of the bacteria. Seen it mentioned a lot on the internet.

Also saw something interesting, the more air getting into the water will help a cycle go faster... ex. air stones and using the filter flow to create a "bigger waterfall" helps too.

If I had my plants, I would test this out myself... but I don't know how accurate it is. :/


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## PapaM (Jul 10, 2011)

You've got me thinking about your problem now. How does your tap water test out? What do you use to transfer the tap water to the tank?
You know when I was cycling my 3 ten gal tanks I used fish, but I was running 4 ppm ammonia, so I did water changes every day. I don't remember losing any fish even though the ammonia tested high. Could you be reading ammonium and not ammonia? Prime and some other conditioners, convert ammonia to ammonium, and it still shows up in tests as ammonia. I think you ought to put a feeder fish like a comet GF in there.


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## briane (Jul 9, 2011)

Nitrates are rising seems like it has not stopped .Put a couple of neons in and see what
happens.Take it slow.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Starting over will not help. Once you have some of the things present to start the cycle trying to go back to where you don't is a serious step backward. 

I think that your ammonia is remaining at 4ppm is where it should have been kept all along. Test initially to get you there, dose that amount daily until nitrites show (regardless of testing result from ammonia testing), and then dose every other day with 1/2 dose. The way you have been doing it, your ammonia levels have been allowed to dip before you dose. 

I would take whatever that original amount of ammonia it took to get to 4ppm and dose it every other day (1/2), no matter what, until you see ammonia start dropping at a fast rate and then one day just before you go to dose, it's at zero. Forget filter droppings from your other tank - change the media in your other tank and stick the old media in your new tank filter. Make two filter bags of gravel from the 10g and put them into the new tank - old stocking will work. IME, you won't see minor change of one value change enother. In other words, just because nitrite goes up a tad it doesn't have to mean that ammonia must go down. More than likely once ammonia starts to budge, it will bottom out and nitrite will shoot up very fast - providing the ammonia has been dosed properly. Fluctuating values may change things.


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## sondre (Jun 1, 2011)

Holly,get yourself in your local fish store and get a few plants , plants "eat" ammonia , and do help with cycling .

You know i am new to this hobby,but my planted tank cycled in 11 days,if i didnt have plants it probably would have taken much longer . 

Worth a try .

Good luck


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Holly do as Ben says and quit worrying about it.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> .I would take whatever that original amount of ammonia it took to get to 4ppm and dose it every other day (1/2), no matter what, until you see ammonia start dropping at a fast rate and then one day just before you go to dose, it's at zero.


I can do this, I'm just wondering... if the ammonia has not dropped, wouldn't adding more and more just make the water higher and higher in ammonia? Like, suitable for cleaning rather than fishkeeping?



jrman83 said:


> Forget filter droppings from your other tank - change the media in your other tank and stick the old media in your new tank filter.


I just changed the sponge from the 10g 2 weeks ago and put it in the 20g _tank_. I changed the 10g carbon last week and put it in the 20g _filter_ this week.




jrman83 said:


> Make two filter bags of gravel from the 10g and put them into the new tank - old stocking will work.


Not a lot of gravel in the 10g.... but I guess I can just replace what I take out with fresh gravel..... the bags I make will be small though, lol.

*LAST QUESTION:*

IF I AM DOSING 1TSP EVERY OTHER DAY, NO MATTER WHAT LIKE YOU SUGGESTED, HOW OFTEN DO YOU TEST FOR AMMONIA, NITRITE AND NITRATE?

Thanks again!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

You know my advice.


thanks for posting. I find this all very interesting.


my .02


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

Found this online hope it helps Tips and tricks for your fastest fishless cycle!

I never really went for this dosing Amonia I just think throwing a dead Prawn in and letting it rot while you sit and watch the telly is easier, unless you have Marines in that case the sand and LR does it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The ammonia could rise, but even if it does it won't matter too much. I think your ammonia has been going down on it's own without the help of nitrifying bacteria. Do what you can with the gravel from the 10g. You should have 2-3 inches if it is a planted tank. I only tested for ammonia 2 times a day....once before I dosed and then again when I got home about 12hrs later.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Alrighty.... I shall make up some gravel bags tonight, and just dose every other day.

Testing twice a day? That's more than I test now, lol. I usually only test once a day - twice on days that I dose.

And I shall dose 2tsp of ammonia every other day. (Since 2 tsp is what gets the tank to 4ppm.)

Fingers crossed.

And Beaslbob, I'm glad you are enjoying my angst, lol!


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## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

hope it works for you this time Holly, sorry you have had suck a time with it


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

Dang, Holly, sorry the usual ways have not worked, so far. If it were me, I'd do just what jrman said OR I do as someone else said and drop a darn goldfish in there and see what happens. I'm pretty sure he won't die but what do you do with him after that? Heck, I had Black Grouper while I was in West Palm Beach this weekend and felt guilty. If I had seen a Grouper while diving Sunday I would not have killed it. Anyway, maybe Ben's way is best. It usually is. Keep on trying. Also, I thing the plants thing might help.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I made a small bag of gravel for the filter. The filter has now (in order): 10g carbon on the bottom, 10g gravel bag, 20g sponge, 20g carbon, 20g biomax. Hopefully the 2 bottom media will seed the upper 3 while the water gets pushed through.

Also have another small bag (could only get tiny handfuls) sitting on the tank bottom. (Along with the old 10g sponge.) We'll see how that helps.  Have Planaria in the 10g, but I'm thinking the lack of food and high ammonia in the cycling tank will kill any that got into the gravel bags.

Will do 1 tsp dose of ammonia tomorrow, as per Ben's instructions of the half dose every other day. (It took 2 tsp to get to 4ppm.) Hopefully don't end up with water better suited for cleaning, lol! (Didn't even test today. Was too mad at the tank, lol.)


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

Can I also add that there is no set time for a tank to cycle , my Marine Tank cycled in 2 weeks but Ive heard of folks getting it done in days while others sit for ages.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Very true. Many people believe the smaller the tank, the easier it is also. Holly is blowing that theory out of the water, lol.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

hahahha, thanks Ben....


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

So, I did what Ben said.... ammonia was at 3ppm today so I dosed 1 tsp..... 4 hours later the ammonia is at 6-7ppm..... *nervous laugher*.... seems kinda' high..... *cough..... I guess I'll just keep dosing 1 tsp every other day...... until it reads 0ppm......


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Ok, I guess he was right. I ignored the tank yesterday and when I tested today, the ammonia had dropped from 7ppm to 4ppm. The Nitrites have risen to 1ppm and the Nitrates have risen to 80ppm. Now... I just have to decide if I want to let it drop below 4ppm, or, dose again and bring it back up to 7ppm. Thaaaaanks Beeeeeeeeeen!


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Whooo! Throw a party Holly! *w3


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

*W


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Dose, dose, and dose.....no decision. Just do what you know you must and the rest will happen on its own.

Glad to see it is working out...I was worried you were going to come here and beat me up like you threatened....although I may like that kind of stuff


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow,congrats,Holly.Should be soon then huh?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Ha ha ha Ben!!! 

And yes Bev, I'm hoping it will be soon!

Thanks everyone!!


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