# Bubbles from my substrate??



## Niki7

When I planted my new plants in my established 20 gal, each time I poked my finger into the substrate to plant them, a big bubble came out of it. I know my substrate is pretty thick, and there was the question of dark spots in the sand which may have been just algae but I am unsure (I had posted that question along with a pic of the spots earlier). I have pretty thick peat with sand on top then gravel on top of that. I know I overdid the peat thickness but thought it would be ok. Now I'm not so sure. Should I be concerned about hydrogen sulfide building up underneath? Since I added the new plants a few days ago, some of my fish have taken to staying at the top of the tank, and I have ammonia again at .25. Should I be thinking about breaking this tank down and redoing the substrate or just waiting it out? This tank has been set up for awhile, so I'm wondering about "old tank syndrome". My other tanks have gravel and ecocomplete and are not as thick and are having no problems (I planted those tanks too and had no big bubbles released when I planted). Now maybe when I planted the plants, I disturbed the gravel enough to throw off the bacterial filter, and the plants could be in shock right now and aren't taking up as much ammonia. Here is an old picture of the black in the sand which btw has gotten bigger:


Thanks everyone


----------



## mec102778

Oh, I'm not sure but with a deep SB there is supposedly a bacteria that builds up and is quit harmful to the aquarium. Supposedly this is more specfic to SW tanks but I believe the threat is still there for all tanks. I would recommend looking up Deep Sand Bed or DSB on the site, Beaslbob posted a good link about this not to long ago. I will see if I can find it. 

Then again I could just be over paranoid for you.


----------



## mec102778

Found it, maybe my concern is unfounded. I am sure one of our awesome experienced/masterful forum mebers will chime in with an accurate evaluation. 

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f67/dsb-dangers-12019.html


----------



## Niki7

Well my spot doesn't look as dark as the ones in the posts...maybe it isn't a big deal. I'm wondering now if my peat was wet enough when I put it down...if it was dry in spots maybe the water pressure is forcing the air out now. Hmmm.


----------



## beaslbob

I get bubbles from my substrate for the first few months or so.

Hopefully the new plants will consume the ammonia and it will drop down the next day.

I also don't add food for a few days to help things settle down.

Even if you have some bad stuff in the substrate, if you don't stirr it up it should be fine.


my .02


----------



## Niki7

beaslbob said:


> I get bubbles from my substrate for the first few months or so.
> 
> Hopefully the new plants will consume the ammonia and it will drop down the next day.
> 
> I also don't add food for a few days to help things settle down.
> 
> Even if you have some bad stuff in the substrate, if you done stirr it up it should be fine.
> 
> 
> my .02


I just realized that this isn't my older tank, this one IS only a few months old. So maybe it is just normal like you said Bob. Thanks for the info!


----------



## jrman83

My tanks with Eco in them bubble from the substrate. Whichever way you set it up initially should have long been overcome by now, given how long it has been up and running.


----------



## mec102778

Bob is awesome!


----------



## Niki7

jrman83 said:


> My tanks with Eco in them bubble from the substrate. Whichever way you set it up initially should have long been overcome by now, given how long it has been up and running.


So do you mean this shouldn't be happening, or it isn't a problem? Or maybe do you mean that all substrates bubble regardless? :fish9:


----------



## Niki7

mec102778 said:


> Bob is awesome!


Yep! (but don't tell HIM that, it'll go to his head!! lol)


----------



## beaslbob

Niki7 said:


> Yep! (but don't tell HIM that, it'll go to his head!! lol)


naaaa

it can't get any bigger. *old dude


----------



## jrman83

Niki7 said:


> So do you mean this shouldn't be happening, or it isn't a problem? Or maybe do you mean that all substrates bubble regardless? :fish9:


I think so. It happens in all of my tanks....but they are all planted and all have mostly eco-complete.

Maybe your tank just has gas


----------



## Niki7

jrman83 said:


> Maybe your tank just has gas


That wouldn't surprise me in THIS gassy house - between the dogs and the men, it's a wonder the fish survive at all lol *o2


----------



## jrman83

Niki7 said:


> That wouldn't surprise me in THIS gassy house - between the dogs and the men, it's a wonder the fish survive at all lol *o2


There it is...men getting the bad rap again. :fish_slap:


----------



## Niki7

jrman83 said:


> There it is...men getting the bad rap again. :fish_slap:


sorry! I call it like I see it heh heh


----------



## Gizmo

From my understanding, there's 2 types of gas bubbles that can be generated/trapped in the substrate.

1. The dangerous kind. Anaerobic bacteria in some deep beds (mostly in marine tanks) will trap nitrate and sulfate from the water and generate hydrogen sulfide and other stuff. The hydrogen sulfide builds up in a gas bubble and "explodes" into the tank, killing most things living if the bubble is big enough. With that being said, freshwater tanks and especially planted freshwater tanks have little to worry about in this department, since there is usually more water flow deeper in the substrate and plants` roots consume sulfate and nitrate in the substrate before the anaerobic bacteria get their hands on it. Freshwater tanks also have a much lower sulfate concentration because plants dig sulfate. The anaerobic bacteria generate a big enough hydrogen sulfide gas bubble over the course of years, as well, so you have little to worry about.

2. The harmless kind. If you washed your substrate before putting it in, or added peat moss without soaking it, etc., air will have been brought in with the substrate. It will sit there for a LONG time (months, I would guestimate) until your fingers or a gravel vac kicks it up.


----------



## Niki7

[email protected] said:


> From my understanding, there's 2 types of gas bubbles that can be generated/trapped in the substrate.
> 
> 1. The dangerous kind. Anaerobic bacteria in some deep beds (mostly in marine tanks) will trap nitrate and sulfate from the water and generate hydrogen sulfide and other stuff. The hydrogen sulfide builds up in a gas bubble and "explodes" into the tank, killing most things living if the bubble is big enough. With that being said, freshwater tanks and especially planted freshwater tanks have little to worry about in this department, since there is usually more water flow deeper in the substrate and plants` roots consume sulfate and nitrate in the substrate before the anaerobic bacteria get their hands on it. Freshwater tanks also have a much lower sulfate concentration because plants dig sulfate. The anaerobic bacteria generate a big enough hydrogen sulfide gas bubble over the course of years, as well, so you have little to worry about.
> 
> 2. The harmless kind. If you washed your substrate before putting it in, or added peat moss without soaking it, etc., air will have been brought in with the substrate. It will sit there for a LONG time (months, I would guestimate) until your fingers or a gravel vac kicks it up.


Thanks for getting us back on topic! *whip*

Well I feel better about the gas build up. I'm pretty sure it might be that the peat wasn't wet enough. I remember being very impatient when I was soaking it, and there is actually a very small spot that I can see in the peat layer that appears to be an open spot where air bubbles are. It almost looks like there is condensation in the spot too. I think this was just a dry spot that didn't get as wet as the rest, and if there is one that I can see, then there are probably more that I don't see. If it helps, the gas bubbles have no smell...I have since found out that the bad gas smells yucky, which isn't the case with my tank. And now the bubbles are periodically coming out of the substrate now without me digging around, so maybe I loosened things up a bit, just enough to release the trapped air. Hope so anyway!!

Thanks so much!


----------



## susankat

Anaerobic bacteria can build up in fresh water tanks with sand also and it can be very toxic to fish that dig in the sand, like cories, loaches and such. Best way to curb this is with mts or taking a chop stick, fork or such and poke holes with it where there isn't any plants during water changes.


----------



## beaslbob

jrman83 said:


> There it is...men getting the bad rap again. :fish_slap:


that's because men actually have to work.*old dude


----------



## susankat

Beaslbobs work is to fill the bandwidth with his knowledge


----------



## Niki7

beaslbob said:


> that's because men actually have to work.*old dude


Oh NO you didn't! Bob?!? 

On the other hand, yeah, I guess *old dude making gas could be considered work. *NA*

Aw well, there goes my serious thread lol


----------



## jrman83

Here we go....


----------



## Niki7

jrman83 said:


> Here we go....


Oh no not me! I'm done, going to bed! I don't wanna get in trouble! *none


----------



## jrman83

Niki7 said:


> Oh no not me! I'm done, going to bed! I don't wanna get in trouble! *none


chicken...


----------



## susankat

*r2*r2*r2*r2*r2*r2*r2


----------



## Niki7

jrman83 said:


> chicken...


 :mini-bird: :mini-bird: :mini-bird: :mini-bird: :mini-bird:


----------



## snail

susankat said:


> Anaerobic bacteria can build up in fresh water tanks with sand also and it can be very toxic to fish that dig in the sand, like cories, loaches and such. Best way to curb this is with mts or taking a chop stick, fork or such and poke holes with it where there isn't any plants during water changes.


+1 I've heard of people using black worms in their substrate too. I have a small experimental tank going with organic substrate, I poke it with a bamboo kebab stick every few days.


----------



## beaslbob

Niki7 said:


> Oh no not me! I'm done, going to bed! I don't wanna get in trouble! *none


no comment


----------

