# Day 12, still no nitrites??



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Running a virgin cycle using a spare hob and a bucket. I deliberately did not seed out both because my main tank is having problems, and I wanted to see how long it would take if I didn't fiddle with it, and followed directions exactly. 

Problem is, 12 days in and no nitrites. What's the deal?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Fish or not? With fish can take 3-6wks to see nitrites and in some cases never see them. Is the ammonia going down? That has to happen first and is your indication that nitrite should be rising. If ammonia levels remain low you could possibly not see nitrites.

If you're going fishless and dosing everyday, and only dosing EVERYDAY, you should see nitrites in 4-5 days.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Yes I have been dosing every single day. Ammonia is so outrageous that the vial almost instantly turns a deep green-black.
Fishless. Just dosing ammonia. I've been dosing 12 days in a row now. Well I should say 11 as I haven't dosed yet today.

This feels like a science experiment. What are your pH, gH, kH from your tap water? Since these are your instructions for fishless. I'm curious if my parameters turn out slower/different results from yours. I know you've gotten repeat results doing this with a full cycle in about 2 weeks.

My pH is around 7.0-7.3, gH exceptionally low (don't bother to test because city water quality report says 1-3 grains per million), kH 0.
I wonder if these various parameters affect cycling speed.

I've been checking my pH as well since I did have a crash when fishless cycling the 90, but it is remaining calm and stable.

Why does everything I try to do turn out so irritating -.- I have got to get this crap cycled so I can move it to the 10g so that my poor snails have some actual bio filtration in there.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Is the tank filtered?


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

I don't understand your question. Do you mean, does it have a filter running on it?
Yes, there's a HOB hanging on the side, and a sponge filter submerged. And a piece of driftwood.

I'm guessing you're just as perplexed as I am based on the stretch of the question 

I'll pop over and make sure I didn't stuff the filter with too much media and am preventing water flow .... ??? But the bio-wheel is turning, so I really don't think that's a problem.
Edit: it's fine, there's plenty of flow. How fast is a bio-wheel supposed to turn? I mean it's not whipping around like mad. But it's turning. I didn't stuff the filter like crazy, it has flow.

I appreciate that you're trying to think of things for me. I'm really not sure what's up. I know how to fishless cycle so this is just plum odd.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Checked the temp, it was a little low at 77 but not cycle-killing low. Turned up the heater.

This is ridiculous. ??? The hell...


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Grasping at straws here but what was in the bucket before use?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The reason I asked is you need flow.

Was that you that had the failed nitrate test?


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

dalfed said:


> Grasping at straws here but what was in the bucket before use?


Hmm, I'm not sure. But I've used it as a fish bucket for a while. It has never had any chemical-y stuff as far as I know. It used to have cat litter.
I have a bucket that I use with bleach sometimes, but this isn't that bucket, because that one was in use when I set this up.
Although this does spur me to label my buckets, very clearly.

Maybe I'll try adding some carbon to the filter, and adding a bunch of prime. ?? I'm grasping at straws too...
This is my only square bucket, so not sure what else I could use bucket-wise.

I see where you are going with this though. Maybe I should try another bucket. I will go see if I have anything suitable.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> The reason I asked is you need flow.
> 
> Was that you that had the failed nitrate test?


Yes, although that was (relatively) ages ago.

I'm also the one who:
* Is a compulsive test-taker and test-logger (with my rack of API vials and my spreadsheets and my taking of tests every day for weeks because I HAVE TO KNOW, and two different nitrate test brands)
* Columnaris in my 90g (otherwise I would just seed this bucket with filter media and be done with it, but I wanted it to be virgin and uninfected)

Good lord if you look at my posts all I am ever doing is whining about my problems. Remind me to make some normal posts sharing my tank. It's not doom and gloom around here all the time in fishville.

I need an avatar. You talk to me a lot; then you would recognize me more easily!


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

OK, the bucket is as good a culprit as any. So I found a different bucket, one I KNOW has never had bleach in it. Moved everything over. New water. Added a massive OD of Prime. Added some carbon to the filter.
Remembered that I washed this HOB with water with bleach, because it came to me used from a saltwater setup. Rinsed it a LOT. However it has a bio-wheel; I wonder if that's just too porous to effectively de-bleach. Could be there is bleach residue on the bio-wheel preventing it from EVER growing anything. This sounds as likely as anything else so far.
If there's any bleach residue, would the prime OD + carbon take care of this?
Purigen can be bleached and reset with heavy rinsing and Prime, so I imagine the bio-wheel could be salvaged. I'm not really worried about the hard plastic parts, but the bio-wheel itself could be the problem. Chemical residue. Seems the obvious culprit now because if everything else is as normal and there are no nitrites, there has to be a proper reason.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I would think in 12 days the bleach(chlorine) would have evaporated.Maybe no help in the first few days but since you only added ammonia (no fish) probly not a big deal.
Some cat litters have perfume(fragrance) added to them so possibly this could be an issue,but I have used cat litter buckets in several of my filters(diy simple sump) without an issue.I didn't go ballistic cleaning them just rinsed well.I can't see the carbon making any difference unless it has ammonia removing qualities(ammo carb).
Changing the water over to new and starting fresh should cause no harm either as long as you didn't mess with the filters.With only ammonia readings it is unlikely that there was any beneficial bacteria in the water and whatever there is should be housed in filter and sponge.
Being a saltwater filter before also should cause no trouble.The bacteria in each system(FW and salt) are different so in switching(although the filter wasn't active anyways)would just kill the existing bacteria and cause new to start to form.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The original filling of the tank you treated the water with Prime or other conditioner? Done the same for any topoffs?


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Yup. Prime, check. With topoffs, check.
The filter was dried out for over a year after being used in a saltwater tank, so it was long inert. It had a lot of scum and buildup and was really dirty though so it needed a good wash.
This particular litter bucket was unscented, that was a good idea though. The bucket is definitely clean, the only thing it has had since litter is substrate that I rinsed. It's definitely never had any sort of chemicals, and has had lots of water in and out.

Sounds like we are all stumped. I moved stuff to the new bucket and I guess I'll just start over.

LOL at this point I am done treating the main tank and could just borrow filter media, but now I feel stubborn and I want to know why this isn't working


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Try adding cc to bring the kh up to where your other tank is. What is amazing to me is your ph holding. In water with 0kh, ph usually will bottom out with the presence of ammonia.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

I've been curious about that myself. I've been testing ph every other day because I keep expecting it to crash. my 90 crashed during cycling. But the ph remains steady. It's all quite the conundrum. 
I hope to at some point find the part of my human error that is causing this. Not because I love to be wrong, but surely I must be making some mistake, or something would be happening by now.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok how about the driftwood. 
It's manzanita driftwood from Dr's Foster and Smith. I put it in the bucket so it could soak somewhere, it just seemed convenient. 
Although, I didn't add the driftwood until something like day 6.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Driftwood would make the water a tad softer and lower ph slightly. Shouldn't cause any problem.


----------



## Threnjen (Jan 10, 2013)

While I doubt anyone has been feverishly wondering what is going on with the cycle 

I "reset" it on Dec 21 by moving all the stuff to a different bucket. Today Dec 25th I have (at last) a nitrite reading.

So either-
*Something was wrong with the original bucket, and I got nitrites on day 5 after my "reset" in the new bucket, OR
* It took 15 days to get nitrites

Either way, at least SOMETHING is finally happening.

Planning to keep this bucket alive indefinitely until the 10g becomes available as a permanent QT, either because the cories all die or they eventually are well enough to return to the main tank (doubtful, but irrelevant)


----------



## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

Pretty odd... Wonder if the original bucket was somehow preventing the bacteria from growing?

I'm fishless cycling a 20G right now, and I was seeing Nitrites on day 4, I Believe... Funny, cause I remember reading this thread before I started this cycle and thinking to myself, crap I hope it doesn't take 2 weeks to see nitrites! Heh


----------

