# Dwarf Powder Blue Gouramis - Too Agressive for me I think :(



## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

Well, I am becoming a little disappointed with my choice of fish thus far.
I posted yesterday for my first time here: http://www.aquariumforum.com/f13/hello-newbie-lot-learn-any-advice-28337.html
I am totally new to this, and spent a ton of time reading and looking at fish pictures trying to decide what fish I wanted.
I asked questions, went to the LFS, asked more questions, and was under the impression that I should get 2 Gwarf Gouramis and not one. I knew that there would be a chance that the betta I bought might not do so well with the Gouramis, but after everything I read it seemed like a 50/50 shot, and I was hoping for the best. I put the 3 fish in my tank, and for 3 days no real problems. I noticed my gold/blue Gourami was a bit of a trouble maker, and liked to claim the tank space a bit, and swim all over the place really fast, and eat most of the food. The other blue Gourami was really peaceful and calm, and the pecking order seemed to be pretty obvious, but no aggression. The betta was fine, then a day or two later, the orange Gourami seemed to just bug him a lot and chase him around a bit, no biting or nipping or touching, just the quick swim-by with some attitude. Then a day or so later I noticed by betta had had enough of the Gold's showboating, and put the chase on him. After about an hour of constant chasing and nipping at the Gourami, I decided to remove the betta. Now he's totally depressed in his little betta tank and won't eat, and hasn't been swimming much or doing anything really. I got him to put in the big tank hoping he would be a good fish and get along, and I don't feel good keeping him in this little tank and I don't really want to keep a depressed fish, so I figured I'd give him until the weekend and see if he improves. I got him some better food and some blood worms and warmed up his tank a bit, but no improvement so far, so I was considering trying to return him to the fish store. Then at least he can be with his buddies, or someone will hopefully give him a better home. Now today, the Gold is doing the same thing to my Blue Gourami, chasing and nipping and pushing. Not cool. Not cool at all. So now I'm wondering if it's just my Gold that's the problem, and maybe he's the one that should be removed/possibly returned. I don't want any injured fish, and I don't want any depressed fish. I'm trying to make a community fish tank, and obviously started out with the wrong fish. Why do I like the aggressive fish? Both the Gourami and Betta are so cool to watch and the colours and appearance are so attractive. I really pictured them being in my comminity. The powder blue and the betta seemed to get along well actually, and never even really went near eachother, or seemed bothered by one another. So I'm wondering if I should maybe put the Gold in the little tank and try the betta and the blue together to see how it goes? Maybe I might get my wish and be able to keep both in a community tank, or maybe the betta will be too agressive for him too, and I'll have to return both agressive fish and just keep the blue and get something different. I'm really not sure what I should do. Kind of disappointing that 2 out of my 3 fish are causing trouble and being agressive. Any advice? Words of wisdom?


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Can you refresh my memory on your tank? Size, planted, etc? if it's big enough it might help to use plants and decor to sort of section it off so the fish can have an easier time claiming territories.


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

Its only a 20 gallon tank. Not planted. It has a few plastic plants, some ornaments, a pirate ship etc. I am thinking about getting some floating surface plants (plastic likely) for a little more coverage and maybe a larger piece of driftwood or something to break up the tank a bit more, but with it being a small tank I am running out of space for adding too much more to it. I don't really have the cash to add to it for at least a couple weeks either, and I am thinking if I wait too long my fish may hurt eachother.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I've got three gouramis - a neon, a fire red, and a powder blue - in my 29 gallon with a LOT of wood, rock, and live plants, and even though there's half a billion hiding spots they still get into it with each other. The fire red (I think a female) stays to herself and the boys leave her alone, oddly enough. However, the neon and powder blue like to do as you said - chasing, nipping, etc.

I've considered returning the powder blue to the store, but at the same time they both seem healthy, very little fin ripping, so instead I think I'm going to enjoy the activity until somebody gets really hurt.

Good choice on moving the betta - long-finned fish like bettas don't go well in tanks with plastic plants; the sharp edges of the plastic decorations can shred their fins.

Also, I know it might be a leap of faith for you, but I would advise a more natural environment for them - some real driftwood, and some live plants. The plants will not only improve the water quality by absorbing things like nitrites and other contaminants, but they won't hurt your betta and they will provide great ways for the gouramis to escape each other if the fighting gets too intense. I know some bettas even like to rest on the leaves of the plants, which they can't do with plastic plants. All the live plants need is the occasional water change, light, and maybe some root fertilizer tabs.


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## Fishaholic (Jan 16, 2012)

A gold gourami isn't a type of dwarf gourami. I have a gold one and had to move him into his own tank because he was aggressive to all my fish, tetras, platies, danios, a ram, and a flagfish. Not sure about the blue one, there are 2 types, the powder blue which is a dwarf, and the blue which isn't a dwarf but a variation of the gold one from what i understand. If either of them aren't dwarfs you may want to return them if you want a peaceful tank. The dwarfs are pretty peaceful though, after moving my gold I got a flame dwarf for my big tank and he never bothers anyone, he's probably the most peaceful fish I have, and he's an adult.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I usually advise against having two gouramis because they are territorial fish. If you want more than one you need to have a lot of places for them to hide and claim territory. The betta also isn't helping as they are generally aggressive fish as it is.

Also I consider most gouramis to be colorful, and that will set almost any betta off.

If you want to keep everything in one tank, get live plants. And a lot of live plants at that. I keep water wisteria, willow hydro, java moss, java fern, and a banana plant and I don't do use anything other than proper lighting and they grow.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Fish don't get depressed, they get stressed. Anyone who has more than one Dwarf Gourami is just waiting for the enevitable. Doesn't have to be any nipping or attacks for one to kill the other...again, it will be stress that kills. In the ones I lost before I learned there wasn't a mark on them.

How long has this tank been up? How long have fish been in it? Sounds like it is a cycling tank still, which will cause fish more stress and they will act differently than they normally would. 

Do you know what your readings for ammonia or nitrites are?


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

From all the stories I've heard its my opinion to most definetly keep only one gourami in a tank with different tank mates, unless you have a fairly large tank with tons of hiding spots as others have stated


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## fishnjeeps (Nov 11, 2011)

My experience has been that DWARF Gourami's do not get along with other DWARF Gourami's. They do get along with larger regular Gourami's. and Regular gourami's can be had together. I currently have 7 Gourami's in my tank and one is a Dwarf. They all get along with my Rainbows, killies, and my Crayfish.

Gourami Stocking:
2 Pink Kissing Gourami's
2 Pearl Gourami's
1 Opaline Gourami
1 Snakeskin Gourami
1 Dwarf Honey Sunset Gourami


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> I've got three gouramis - a neon, a fire red, and a powder blue - in my 29 gallon with a LOT of wood, rock, and live plants, and even though there's half a billion hiding spots they still get into it with each other. The fire red (I think a female) stays to herself and the boys leave her alone, oddly enough. However, the neon and powder blue like to do as you said - chasing, nipping, etc.
> 
> I've considered returning the powder blue to the store, but at the same time they both seem healthy, very little fin ripping, so instead I think I'm going to enjoy the activity until somebody gets really hurt.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I plan on going to get some plants and driftwood tomorrow. I was advised by a fellow fish enthusiast to just stick with plastic plants, to save myself some effort and money. He told me that having live plants would likely double my cost, and I am already well over triple what I thought I would spend on this
setup. But I am really starting to enjoy the hobby, and I can't help but wanting to keep spending money on it to make things better. My betta does like to lay in the leaves of even the fake plants. So I am thinking some real ones would do him some good.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

The awesome thing about live plants is that they grow and then you can trim them and plant them somewhere else in the tank. So you could start with one aquatic plant and eventually your tank will be filled with plants.


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Fish don't get depressed, they get stressed. Anyone who has more than one Dwarf Gourami is just waiting for the enevitable. Doesn't have to be any nipping or attacks for one to kill the other...again, it will be stress that kills. In the ones I lost before I learned there wasn't a mark on them.
> 
> How long has this tank been up? How long have fish been in it? Sounds like it is a cycling tank still, which will cause fish more stress and they will act differently than they normally would.
> 
> Do you know what your readings for ammonia or nitrites are?


Non existent it seems. 0.1-0.3ppm ammonia, Nitrite is not showing up at all. The tank has been cycling for about 8 days. My fish don't seem stressed in the tank though really. My betta hates his little tank, but that's about it. I remember at the fish store when the guy scooped up the orange one, I just had a feeling he was going to be trouble. He was scooting all over the tank there and was hard to catch. Just seemed to have a ton of energy. Next time I will pick out my own fish.


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

To expand on this yet again and to maybe clarify a little bit. They are both powder blue gouramis I believe. Both dwarf. One is just all blue, the other is orange/gold like a gold fish with a blue fin.

Anyway, as I said, I removed the betta because him and the orange one weren't getting along. The betta and the blue one seemed completely fine the entire time. And like I said, I started noticing the orange one being aggressive to the blue gourami as well. Then today it got a bit out of hand. He was just relentless, and during feeding time got a bit violent and scales were flying. So I knew I needed to remove the aggressor. But the betta was in my other tank. So I don't know if its a good idea or not, but this seems to be a lot of trial and error, and as I said the blue gourami and betta seemed fine for the 3 days they were together. So I moved the betta back to the big tank, and again he was instantly happier, and I moved the orange Gourami to the smaller tank. He is totally. PO'd, but he's causing too much trouble. I am going to see if the fish store will take him back tomorrow. I know he's just going to do the same thing to any other fish I get as well.


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

So my orange gourami went back to the store today. My blue one and the betta are getting along great. They each have their own sections of the tank they prefer and they have not shown any signs of aggression whatsoever.
So I traded my gourami in for 6 black smoke platies. Got a really cool piece of driftwood that splits up my tank a bit better and got some cool floating surface plants that the betta instantly took a liking to. I'm thinking my betta and gourami may work out in my community tank after all. *fingers crossed*


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## mchapple (Feb 23, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> I've got three gouramis - a neon, a fire red, and a powder blue - in my 29 gallon with a LOT of wood, rock, and live plants, and even though there's half a billion hiding spots they still get into it with each other. The fire red (I think a female) stays to herself and the boys leave her alone, oddly enough. However, the neon and powder blue like to do as you said - chasing, nipping, etc.
> 
> I've considered returning the powder blue to the store, but at the same time they both seem healthy, very little fin ripping, so instead I think I'm going to enjoy the activity until somebody gets really hurt.
> 
> ...


I really want some real plants, and was hoping to get some next week. My fish are all getting along great now (except one of my platies died not even 24 hrs after entering the tank). But I should have taken your advice sooner and paid more attention. My bettas fins are all torn up from these floating plastic plants I got. Man, this is incredible how much of a learning experience this tank has been. Another thing I learned is that I really hate my colored gravel that came with the tank. Unnatural looking and already completely 
disgusting. I think I am going to try to switch it out for some nice sand.

That being said, any advice on how to change substrate once there's already fish and water in there?


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

mchapple said:


> Non existent it seems. 0.1-0.3ppm ammonia, Nitrite is not showing up at all. The tank has been cycling for about *8 day*s. My fish don't seem stressed in the tank though really. My betta hates his little tank, but that's about it. I remember at the fish store when the guy scooped up the orange one, I just had a feeling he was going to be trouble. He was scooting all over the tank there and was hard to catch. Just seemed to have a ton of energy. Next time I will pick out my own fish.


8 days is just not enough to cycle a tank - unless you're using a bacteria source from another tank.

I'm glad you're testing the water but as pointed out to me, until nitrates start appearing in your water, the tank is not cycled.

If your filter is new and it has some of those fancy granules that remove nitrite and ammonia, the chance is that your tank will actually take longer to cycle depending on how efficient the removal of these substances is - now the risk is that you'll get ammonia and nitrite spikes which would mean more frequent water changes, delaying the cycle further...

The options that are open to you that won't cost much are:

#1 read about ich - chances are that the fish will get stressed and succumb to this (mine did) and early treatment with protozin (or other bacteria friendly ich treatment) at the first signs is only possible if you have a bottle handy when the shops are closed.

#2 get a cup-full of gravel from a cycled tank (the LFS at the worst case as this is more likely to be contaminated)

#3 get someone's old filter media.

#4 to reduce aggression during feeding, make 2 feeder rings with some air hose that float in different parts of the tank (preferably without line of sight between them...

I kickstarted my cycle by using the entire filter from another tank - this then supposedly takes 24 hours - I left both filters running for 48 hours and did not experience a spike.

Also remember not to wash your filter media in untreated tap-water as this kills the good bacteria that build up in your sponge.

I'm not a fan of carbon in filters either - it's a fantastic idea but completely unnecessary unless there's a problem with your water or you want something removed from your tank. 

From my (limited) experience with dwarf gourami, they can be murderous but tend to leave cories and tetras alone. I thought cories were boring at first but they are the most active fish in my tank, bumbling along and cleaning everything. The challenge with them is to give them enough food without overfeeding the other fish. I often squash up a frozen pea or give them some steamed broccoli as they ravish it and the other fish tend to let most of it fall to the bottom.

Good luck with your fish but don't be scared to make an isolation tub with small holes in it to save one or other - better a live fish taken back to the store than a dead one in your tank.

cb


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