# Light or CO2



## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

I am so confused about what I need to get my plants to grow better, that I joined this forum so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

My tank is a 55 Gallon 4ft long 21in hieght 12 depth, it has (2) hoods with a single 5500k tropical daylight bulb from zoo med in each, a magnum canister filter, a sugar/yeast CO2 generator, and a couple air stones.

My problem is that my broad leaf plants keep drying (become see through or brown). My other plants seems to be doing alright, but not great. How can I correct this? 

I read on the interweb that CO2 is the key, but the local pet store guy said that he doesn't use CO2 all you need is the proper light. So I looked that up and now am confused on the whole NO, HO, VHO bulbs. I can't find any HO lights that will fit where my current lights are sitting. Also how important are the lunar lights?

TIA


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

the conventional rule say that kprovide 2-3 watts per gallon for a planted tank.at the same time for a heavily planted tank we will alaways recommend to use co2 diffuser.moreover there are some useful fertilisers for the growth of plants..i think if you use co2 diffuser along with proper lighting and fertiliser then your tank will be an aquatic garden...


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

Planted tanks are all about balance. The more light your provide, the more CO2 and nutrients (fertilizer) that is required. Also, certain plants require more lighting/fertilization than others. 

What kind of plants do you have? Also, what lighting are you using? How many watts are the bulbs? Do you have two 48" bulbs or only 2 24" bulbs? If you only have two 24" bulbs it's likely that you have too little light for the plants to get any benefit from CO2 you are providing. Also, sugar/yeast DIY CO2 doesn't generally work for tanks 50G and up. In addition try to limit surface agitation, as this will cause you to loose a large amount of CO2 into the air.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

absolutely you say...


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

I have some (amazon?)swords that are doing real bad. Subulata, Dwarf (looks like grass to me) it's doing alright. A few bamboo plants that are doing good. And maybe Java fern. I dunno but they are doing awesome. grown like 3 inches since planted 2-3 months ago 

My lighting is 2 18in 5500k bulbs. the top of my tank has 2 hoods that are each 20inches and each holds 1 bulb


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Couple things to note here:

Lighting...too low....even for low light standards but low light plants will do....ok. You want to look for daylight bulbs around the 6700k range. Try shooting for 2wpg. The depth is what gets ya concerning light. More light is needed to reach the lower end of the tank.

DIY CO2...the only way this will really benefit this tank is if you run multiple bottles at the same time.

Now...the more light you add..say > 2wpg...you should look to add CO2 and ferts. Best method would be pressurized. It is a larger cost up front but in the end it will pay for itself.

Lunar Light...no value to plants only asthetics. I have one on my larger tank to run a couple hours at nigth just so I can watch the night time fishies for a while.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

if you look for a planted tank you need all fertilisers,proper light and co2 injection...then your tank will be an aquatic garden.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks. I will try and get some better bulbs today. I know the lunar light wont help the plants, but I want to make my fish happy to.

What is a good website for lights? I couldn't seem to find any yesterday that had 18" bulbs that would fit where my current lights sit. The fixtures themselfs are about 21 1/4" by 4" 


If I can get proper light or at least better light, will should I still get CO2 right away? I only have 5-7 plants.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Not sure as websites to get lights from. Maybe Dr Fosters and Smith? I just go to Lowes or HD and get shop lights now. Cheaper. *#3


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

Aquarium Lighting: Choosing the Proper Lighting for Your Aquarium
Discover The Importance of Proper Aquarium Lighting
there are lots of lots of website about it..i find this links..hope it works well for you...


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

squirrelcrusher said:


> Thanks. I will try and get some better bulbs today. I know the lunar light wont help the plants, but I want to make my fish happy to.
> 
> What is a good website for lights? I couldn't seem to find any yesterday that had 18" bulbs that would fit where my current lights sit. The fixtures themselfs are about 21 1/4" by 4"
> 
> ...


Keep in mind if you want to shoot for 2 wpg in this tank, you'll need more than two 18" standard fluorescent aquarium bulbs, regardless of there temperature (K) you still won't have enough light for plants really grow.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

thanks for the help. I think I am going to get some glass hoods from Dr Foster and some new lights. I would use shop lights from HD, but I don't want to mount them to my wood stand. I'm leaning toward some PC 2 24" lights 65 watts each so 130 total along with the glass hoods I'm lookin at about 200 bucks and some shipping. Wow


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

You might want to consider T5HO lighting instead of PC. It has a few advantages: bulbs are cheaper, it produces a more penetrating light than PCs (able to reach the bottom better), and the spectrum doesn't shift as much towards the end of the bulbs lifespan. 

You could pick up a fixture like this 48" Freshwater Nova Extreme T5HO for just over $100. Then all you'd need would be the glass cover (if you want one). This specific one produces 108 watts would put you right at 2wpg.

Whatever you do steer clear of Actinic and 50/50 bulbs as they really won't help your plants grow. Many PC fixtures come with a setup that includes Actinic.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

With HO/VHO bulb you can throw the wpg rule out the window. These bulbs have higher lumens or penetration power. Once you add over 1wpg, I would seriously consider pressurized CO2 and daily nutrients. 

By doing this you will now have a high-tech tank. This means faster growth but more work. You have to keep up on the nutrient dosing and pruning weekly, and larger water changes or you have the potential to grow more algae. It really depends on how much time and money you want to put into the hobby and how fast you want these plants to grow.

If you keep everything as is right now...maybe add one more normal bulb at 6700k or higher and get to 1wpg, your sword will still do ok IMO. You just need to trim off the dying leaves and add nutrients/root tabs with iron. The clear looking leaves is usually due to a lack of iron and potassium.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

I have a 55 gallon tank with the middle support bar. That is why it has the (2) 18" bulb fixtures in it now. I thought about just getting a 48" light, but wouldn't the center support mess with the light? Or could I just brace it on the ends to it sat higher than the center support? Will the lights get hot enough to melt/disform the plastic?


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## jbrianchamberlin (Aug 31, 2009)

I bought the Hagen Glo T5 unit...x2 (54 watt) so it's only 108 watts but it's very bright.. has a high lumen output so it should work.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Yep...that'll do ya fine. As for sitting across the brace, it should not be that hot to cause it any harm. I have a 110w sitting on the 46 with no issue.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the help. I think I will get the light obscbyclouds recommended. After that I'll look into the CO2 set ups


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## obscbyclouds (Apr 6, 2009)

squirrelcrusher said:


> I have a 55 gallon tank with the middle support bar. That is why it has the (2) 18" bulb fixtures in it now. I thought about just getting a 48" light, but wouldn't the center support mess with the light? Or could I just brace it on the ends to it sat higher than the center support? Will the lights get hot enough to melt/disform the plastic?


Many lights also come with mounting legs to support the light fixture 3-4" above the aquarium. You might want to check whichever you buy to see if they have these, then the center brace is no problem.


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## spawn (Sep 21, 2009)

ya co2 set up is necessary for an aquarium...


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

Went to HD today to look at thier lighting options and the T5s they had were smaller wattage than what I have been seeing online. Is there a regular t5 and a t5HO? Would the fixture HD had work for me if I bought some HO bulbs? If so I will do that because it was WAY cheaper than the ones I've found online.


If I get one online I am leaning toward this one now. It is $120, but would be easier to mount than the other one linked above.
Current USA 48" Nova Extreme T-5 Fixture 2x54W 10K/Freshwater, (1129) - AquaCave


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## jbrianchamberlin (Aug 31, 2009)

I personally think you'll be fine with the 2x54 watt T5 light simply because the lumen output. The 2 to 3 watts per gallong rule is old and quite out dated.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

That would put you at 2wpg and since it is a T5HO it is closer to (3wpg) as far as the old rule goes, and you would need CO2 and nutrient dosing for the tank. If you were to take out one bulb you could probably get away from having to add CO2 and adding daily nutrients.

Plants require 3 things: light, CO2, and nutrients. If any of the above is limiting it can lead to an imbalance and you either see the plant die or algae bloom. In a tank with low light (say around 1wpg (not T5)), growth is slower so it requires less nutrients and CO2. Most of the time, your fish bio-load and weekly water changes will provide you enough "nutrients" and carbon.

But if you increase the light to 2-3wpg, plants will begin to grow faster, and will soak up all the nutrients and CO2 in your tank. Now you have an imbalance where you tank is completely depleted of CO2 and nutrients. Your plants get thin and begin to die and algae takes over. In order to keep this from happening, as you increase light you need to increase CO2 and nutrients. Hope that makes sense.


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## squirrelcrusher (Sep 23, 2009)

So I am a flip flopper. I bought a 48in 2bulb t8 from HD today. So now I am at (2) 32watt 8000k bulbs. 64 watts total. We will see how they do. If need be I can add a bulb or two. Lots of room to mount it in my wood canopy thing. Hopefully it will help the plants. It is for sure brighter than my last set up.


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