# Power head question



## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

So I've been researching/reading/watching about the wave controllers and how expensive they all are.

I was thinking couldn't I just buy a nice powerful powerhead and wire it to a plug controlled by a dimmer switch? I was thinking if I just wanted to do a few quick pumps to stir up debris I could give the slider a few pumps. Then you could run the pump at whatever speed you wanted.

Anyone tried it or have a reason why it wouldn't work?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Normal dimmers are made for resistive loads (like light bulbs), and usually fail to operate properly when connected to inductive loads (like motors)
Powerheads operate off one straight load (inductive), if you cut alittle from them, they fail to operate.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

U can hook up a flow control to the inlet or outlet


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

catfisherpro said:


> U can hook up a flow control to the inlet or outlet


Powerheads don't have intake and returns.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

My powerheads do I have the inlet hooked onto a ug filter an 1/2 in PVC hooked on outlet as a spray bar. In fact all 4 of my powerheads do


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Aquarium Water Pumps & Water Movement: Marineland Maxi-Jet PRO
Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Evolution
Aqueon Aquarium Circulation Pump 700 GPH Power Head on eBay!


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I think the Marineland Maxi-Jet PRO Water Pumps is the way to go.it will do what you want to do.


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Normal dimmers are made for resistive loads (like light bulbs), and usually fail to operate properly when connected to inductive loads (like motors)
> Powerheads operate off one straight load (inductive), if you cut alittle from them, they fail to operate.


They do sell ceiling fan dimmers though. I've got one of my fans wired to one that has 2 dimmer sliders one for the fan and one for the lights. I wonder if that type would work?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

blacksi said:


> They do sell ceiling fan dimmers though. I've got one of my fans wired to one that has 2 dimmer sliders one for the fan and one for the lights. I wonder if that type would work?


This is a question that needs to go to dalefed,he's an electrician(it's the greatest advantage to have all trades on this site and Dale has always been very helpful).I just PM'd him so hopefully he'll lend his expertise.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

Sorry blacksi it still won't work the powerhead motors are set for a certain wattage u take away some wattage it won't work to much wattage will burn the motor. As I said earlier a simple PVC flow control $2.49 put on inlet or outlet should do what u want I have one on a marineland maxi jet 1200


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

catfisherpro said:


> Sorry blacksi it still won't work the powerhead motors are set for a certain wattage u take away some wattage it won't work to much wattage will burn the motor. As I said earlier a simple PVC flow control $2.49 put on inlet or outlet should do what u want I have one on a marineland maxi jet 1200


I haven't looked at the links yet to see what those do, but the optimal idea would be to walk up to the tank flip a switch and watch the power head blow at max for a minute or so to stir stuff up. I can see the valve working to do just that except for having to reach into the tank to make it happen.

This weekend if the electrician doesn't chime in I will disassemble my fan control and play around with wiring up my cheapo pump I have to see what it does. It should burn up the motor as far as too much power since xxxxxxx

That just put something in my mind. That switch on the wall is dealing with AC not dc as far as I know but I would assume somewhere it is transformed into DC. DUnno if its the same switch for both. hmmm.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

My circulation pumps are on timers.The kind that can turn on and off every 15 minutes.On one tank I have i set for every hour to run 15 minutes, on another tank I run them for 15 minutes 6 X during lighting cycle, and on third tank I have timer set for running every other 15 minutes in series with the light timers(meaning it turns on every 15 minutes that the lights are on and not at all after lights turn off). Timers and possibly a pre filter sponge would work out well fo you?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

It all depends on what type of motor is in the power head! Some motors (like ceiling fans) will still turn at very low applied voltages, while others will just sit and hum until you are within 10% of operating range. If you try it and make sure you are keeping a close eye on it when you first turn it on you will not burn out the motor if kept on for a very short time.
If it does not work at first you may have to start it on high to get the magnetic shield built up and then should be able to turn down. Got me interested I am going to try it tonight lol.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Normal dimmers are made for resistive loads (like light bulbs), and usually fail to operate properly when connected to inductive loads (like motors)
> Powerheads operate off one straight load (inductive), if you cut alittle from them, they fail to operate.


I've already answered this question. But, by all means go ahead and test it yourself.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> I've already answered this question. But, by all means go ahead and test it yourself.


I'm sure you've tried this already(as you're the man),but (and no insult implied) I thought bringing in a professional electrician could not hurt(he's not going to charge us)!
If you're right (RM)than I will not be suprised,and honestly also don't think that the power head will function on a dimmer,but no harm in having Dale give it his professional effort.
Thanks to both of you,
I have faith in both of you,I trust the info both of you offer and value it.
The members of this site are the best,I figure a 100% solid answer(again no disrespect RM) would make it clear to all who are "MORE CREATIVE"!(op)


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> I've already answered this question. But, by all means go ahead and test it yourself.


You may be right about the dimmers, but there are other methods for DC controls. Here's one that uses potentiometer for$25 and might be what is needed. I think I have one of these out in my misc tool parts, maybe even the innards from a broken battery powered drill.

just a quick search.


DC Motor Speed Controller Kit


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

^
That's "more creative"!
I also have no idea and never would have got there!


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

I think what RM is saying is starting to sink in. There are no moving motor parts to control the speed of like a ceiling fan at least in the power heads I've looked at so far. But I hope he's wrong about being able to control it. .


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Sorry was working when I answered this earlier (didn't read it all) a normal house light dimmer will not work!!!! But a normal house speed control should. Any hardware store or walmart carries them just ask for a ceiling fan speed control. Once again sorry for the confusion.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

Powerheads are dc dimmers are for ac. I have a degree in industrial maintence


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm no expert but my hydor 750 koralia powerhead says it's 115VAC. There isn't a DC inverter on it or anything. and i'm pretty sure on their website they say that they work with wavemaker systems. I don't see why you couldn't just put it on a dimmer (potentiometer).

-Zeke


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Ok sorry I don't do saltwater but I just checked 20 different powerheads and only one was dc and seems to be specially made for some master controller, am I missing something?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Besides a specific hydor model(made for their controller) most of the salties use the same powerheads as freshwater guys.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

My money says a speed controller will work but please let me blow chit up first and I'll get back to you


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

blacksi said:


> You may be right about the dimmers, but there are other methods for DC controls. Here's one that uses potentiometer for$25 and might be what is needed. I think I have one of these out in my misc tool parts, maybe even the innards from a broken battery powered drill.
> 
> just a quick search.
> 
> ...


DC motor power heads operate differently than AC ones. The question wasn't asked if a DC Motor woukd work. Most wave makers operate better using the DC style, they don't clatter and chatter on fire up like mos AC powerheads do, some you can't get them to catch without intetvening.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> I'm sure you've tried this already(as you're the man),but (and no insult implied) I thought bringing in a professional electrician could not hurt(he's not going to charge us)!
> If you're right (RM)than I will not be suprised,and honestly also don't think that the power head will function on a dimmer,but no harm in having Dale give it his professional effort.
> Thanks to both of you,
> I have faith in both of you,I trust the info both of you offer and value it.
> The members of this site are the best,I figure a 100% solid answer(again no disrespect RM) would make it clear to all who are "MORE CREATIVE"!(op)


None taken. I'm not tryin to give anyone grief.


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

Yeah, I was just assuming they were DC for some reason. But it they are the transformer/converter is sealed in the head since the ac wire goes into the head.

Hopefully Dalfed will give it a try, if not I will.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

When u try just keep in mind open wires an saltwater does not mix well


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

Well, I tried the dimmer and it mostly didn't work but did some. 

The prop would agitate back and forth but not spin. I gave it a spin start and it would get going for a bit but then eventually after 10 or 15 sec stop and do the agitate mode again. It was like it didn't have enough power or the frequency wasn't right to make it continue to rotate. When it was spinning it was not putting out as much volume as when direct wired.

More research I guess. I was hoping this would be pretty simple.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

There is alot involved when wiring up anything. An it sounds like u dont have enough power check the output wattage of ur powerhead see what it takes to make it run. U could just hook a switch to it to kick it on an off an I know that's not really what ur wanting but was just a thought for u. If u lived near me I would sell u my old sump box motor it has adjustable speeds for wave making


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Ok tried a regular house fan speed controller and no go. Got a high end mini drive controller small difference from 120-100 volts barely noticeable then just chattered below 100.
Went to the local motor repair guru lol, and his explanation was that the small motor does not build up a strong enough magnetic field for the fan, went on to show me by making an impeller out of copper that you could get a little more range but still nothing like a ceiling fan can be controlled.
So the Madness was right once again!!!


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

Just an idea I might be wrong but if u could find a 3 phase switch ( pull cord fan or box fan switch) an then find some resistors along wit a small capacitor an u may be able to get it to work. Make sure resistors is a different size for it to work. Also some research about resistor on ur part cause its hard to explain what u need when I have no clue what type of powerhead ur using


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Your trying to slow down a impellar thats meant to go at a certain speed, in order to maintain motion. By trying to slow it down, you stop it, or throw it off balance, its not meant to slow down. Now if you want a certain powerhead to slow down, you change the impellar or file down your current one. You want it on or off you put it on a Wave maker. But again, AC ones, depending on the powerhead used, will most times stop and not catch on start up. the DC are more capable of utilizing the on/off of the wavemakers. Most clatter, not all. But trying to slow them down by cutting the voltage to a motor that is already running minimum of watts is not going to work. Weakening the field only stops the MAGNET.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

That's what the capacitor would be for not guaranteed. What it does stores a built up charge for any sudden change in voltage so the power remains constant. Which im think that if the powerhead is dc it should boost enough power into ph kicking it on. Once on could use lower volts (resistors) while still using power out of capacitor. Maybe that could cause the ph to vary up an down in speed. Just a thought NOT saying it will work


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## blacksi (Nov 11, 2012)

Catfisher, I don't have said power head yet. I was trying to figure out what I am going to do before purchasing.

I'm mechanical not an electrical engineer so %99 percent of the electrical stuff is over my head. But like RF was stating the power heads are designed to rotate at a set speed. I would think that something controls that speed like maybe the 120 hz wave. I vaguely remember something about poles switching to make a motor turn or something. Maybe that switching speed is controlled by the hz coming in. Wish I knew more about this stuff to have some good input.


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## catfisherpro (Apr 5, 2013)

Ya it does switch between poles im just throwing out ideas trying to help. I'm pretty sure im just over thinking it lol happens alot


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## AZDesertRat (Apr 10, 2009)

Its been tried many many times and it does not work. You would have to use a variable frequency drive to convert the AC to DC then back to AC in order to control both the voltage and the amperage to vary the speed. Very expensive devices even in fractional horsepower applications.


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