# Beaslbob Build 2: Electric Boogaloo



## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

Sorry for the Breakin' 2 reference and the new post about a related post. 

I have just stumbled upon about $400-500 in free money. (Short version: a colleague paid me some cash to help him do some legal work.) 

I have a 10 gal tank that I planted after-the-fact. Now that I've done more research and read Beaslbob's posts about his planted tanks, I am currently looking at a 26 gal bowfront with stand because the footprint is about two square feet. (Space is an issue.)

My basic plan is to use peat moss and sand layers, then a top layer of either prochoice select or some other plant-friendly substrate. 

Here are my questions:

1.) I haven't seen peat moss or play sand at my LFS, and the local big box stores don't have it listed on their websites. Do I get this stuff at a hardware store? 

2.) Will adding some gravel from my existing 10 gal help kickstart the cycle in the new tank?

3.) Does the Bealsbuild leave room for rocks and whatnot? I was thinking about using half the number of plants that he does for a 55gal. I also want some rocks and other features. I plan to add a red-tailed shark to this tank, so I need non-plant hidey spots as well. 

4.) I am wary of not using a filter system. I was planning on using a bio-wheel HOB filter specced for a 40 gal tank. Are there other filter media I should use? I know the traditional Bealsbuild uses no filtration, etc., but if this tank ends up in the bedroom, I want to have the added benefit of filter sounds. They're soothing.

5.) Any other considerations?





My main fear is the lack of a filtration system, etc. in the bealsbuild.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

dern


another beaslbob build. *w3

Keep us posted and here are a few comments FWIW.





CmdrSlack said:


> Sorry for the Breakin' 2 reference and the new post about a related post.
> 
> I have just stumbled upon about $400-500 in free money. (Short version: a colleague paid me some cash to help him do some legal work.)


that is a lot of money for a beaslbob build. you could probably do a 55g with that.


> I have a 10 gal tank that I planted after-the-fact. Now that I've done more research and read Beaslbob's posts about his planted tanks, I am currently looking at a 26 gal bowfront with stand because the footprint is about two square feet. (Space is an issue.)


 sounds good to me. Make it fit your space available.


> My basic plan is to use peat moss and sand layers, then a top layer of either prochoice select or some other plant-friendly substrate.


see comment below


> Here are my questions:
> 
> 1.) I haven't seen peat moss or play sand at my LFS, and the local big box stores don't have it listed on their websites. Do I get this stuff at a hardware store?


the LFS will not have them. The big box stores do not list it on their web sites. I got mine from home depot. a 2/3 cubic yard of sphagum peat moss was $11. For reference immagine a cube 3 feet on each end and take 2/3's of that. 50 pounds bags of premium play sand is like $3. The pro choice select was more difficult. I emailed the manufacturer and they replied back with a local source. A landscaping firm that did golf courses and the like. They ordered a pallet and I got 4 50 pound bags for $8 a bag. It is a dark red/brown in the tank so maybe Amie's more colorful aquarium gravel would be more to your liking.


> 2.) Will adding some gravel from my existing 10 gal help kickstart the cycle in the new tank?


no. With heavy planting there are no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes even if there are no aerobic bacteria on the system. So no need to jump start anything. You will not get the spikes with or without existing sand.


> 3.) Does the Bealsbuild leave room for rocks and whatnot? I was thinking about using half the number of plants that he does for a 55gal. I also want some rocks and other features. I plan to add a red-tailed shark to this tank, so I need non-plant hidey spots as well.


now we have a beaslbuild. Hmmmmm. (looking down) hopefully your's won't have a gut.  Sure you can use rocks to create hiding places. You might search local streams and look for driftwood. that looks good also. The red tailed shark from what I hear is very territorial and agressive. But others may want to provide expertise. The plants themselves will provide hiding places and that is actually one of the benefits of a planted tank.


> 4.) I am wary of not using a filter system. I was planning on using a bio-wheel HOB filter specced for a 40 gal tank. Are there other filter media I should use? I know the traditional Bealsbuild uses no filtration, etc., but if this tank ends up in the bedroom, I want to have the added benefit of filter sounds. They're soothing.


a totally quiet tank is also very soothing in a bedroom. I would not use a bio wheel. I have heard reports of 0 nitrates with biowheels even in marine tanks. The wheel works with algae which is the same exact method the plants use. So the bio wheel steals nutrients from the plants. With filter media at least the break down of the stuff filtered can return to the tank and feed the plants (nitrates, phosphates). But then I don't use filters but do worry about them robbing nutrients from the plants. So I just let the crud settle down in the tank to feed the plants.


> 5.) Any other considerations?


 are you sane? did Amie do that well? *old dude

sounds like you have a plan.


> My main fear is the lack of a filtration system, etc. in the bealsbuild.


I know I know. I had the same fear with my first tank. Hopfully you will find out the plants themselves are tremendous filters. And the peat moss tends to keep KH and GH in reasonable values.

Now I double dog dare ya to not do water changes. *old dude

Best tank ever.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Good luck with your build. Can't wait to see some pics. If your nervous about removing the filter then you could try what I'm going to do. After the tank is fully planted and grown in sufficiently I'm going to attempt to remove the filter then. I'll probably take out all of fish except 1 or 2 though just in case, then slowly add them back in. Just a tip: when you do your layers you can see all 3 of them from the side of the tank but it is possible to blend them so you only see the top layer and the other 2 are then hidden. I did not do that and personally, I think it's probably better at least for the first one to be able to see the layers-that way you can see exactly which layer your plants next to the glass are in and you can see the roots growing into the layers to make sure they are thriving. I cut the top off one plant the other day and transplanted it as it's own plant and planted it very close to the glass so I could see when/if the new plant started to root and it has!! Another tip, try making the peat moss into a nice mud mixture with water before putting it into the tank. It will make it much easier to deal with when you add water after that. 

Check out my thread http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/my-beaslbob-build-8208.html and hopefully that can give you some tips or suggestions. PS you owe me $5.00 for the copyrights of the name LOL


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Some people who advocate this type of tank set up still recommend a powerhead as it won't compete with the plants but adds water circulation.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

snail said:


> Some people who advocate this type of tank set up still recommend a powerhead as it won't compete with the plants but adds water circulation.


maybe a bit much for smaller tank. Circulation stirrs up the substrate and may affect the plants.


but even with my "no filter" recommendations I have used (once) just a simple air stone to provide some gentile circulation. that would also seem to allow all the crud to feed the plants while circulating the water for air/gas intercnage. And perhaps lower pH to more normal values. PH is very high on my uncirculated tanks but fish and plants thrive and live for years.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Amie said:


> ...
> 
> . PS you owe me $5.00 for the copyrights of the name LOL


Like your input here especially the wetting the peat moss before adding to tank.
B4 you get the 5 bucks they should send me my royalities for the "beaslbob". *old dude

my .02


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> maybe a bit much for smaller tank. Circulation stirrs up the substrate and may affect the plants.
> my .02


Makes sense. What fish do you keep in these setups? Do you have any larger fish?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

snail said:


> Makes sense. What fish do you keep in these setups? Do you have any larger fish?


generally smaller peaceful types. But in one tank I did keep a few angels for 3-4 years.


Of course one thing with planted tanks is larger fish can play havoc with the plants. expecially fish like goldfish or cichlids.


but then how would I know if I never kept such types?

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just hard for me to fathom a tank without some type of flow. Only ones I've ever seen were sess pools of muck. But, they didn't have a single plant in them. I'd like to see how this idea would do on a larger tank, like 125+.

Some of the smaller Kydor power heads wouldn't work with this type of setup?


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I have toyed with the idea of a tank like this for my pumkinseed, I'm expecting him to get pretty large. He shows no interest in plants or substrate so far but is a large bioload fish.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Just hard for me to fathom a tank without some type of flow. Only ones I've ever seen were sess pools of muck. But, they didn't have a single plant in them. I'd like to see how this idea would do on a larger tank, like 125+.
> 
> Some of the smaller Kydor power heads wouldn't work with this type of setup?


I guess they might work.

After all "my" idea is "it's the plants stupid" so anything else added like power heads should not make any difference. 

sure if you put some sand in a container add some life you would get a cess pool. After all that is the way cess pools work.

but with the plants consuming ammonia/nitrates/phosphate/carbon dioxide, returning oxygen, bio accumulating (filtering out) nasties you don't get any of that.

Plus the plants themselves provide a low level of water circulation.

But I didn't realize all that untill I tried it. 8 years later still had the same tank running with descendants for the original fish.

my .02


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

My plan is to use this with each tank I plant and eventually one of those is going to be a 55gal Cichlid tank. I think some are suppose
to be worse for tearing up plants then others. My Oscar would probably have a good chew on them but I saw a heavily planted tank with Convicts and WhiteDevils tanks are planted and he has angels. So I think it's just a matter of the right fish and the right plants. 

Beaslbob: You got me on that one......Can we consider the fact that your design has caught on and been immortalized in the tanks of others and on the internet as payment?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Amie said:


> My plan is to use this with each tank I plant and eventually one of those is going to be a 55gal Cichlid tank. I think some are suppose
> to be worse for tearing up plants then others. My Oscar would probably have a good chew on them but I saw a heavily planted tank with Convicts and WhiteDevils tanks are planted and he has angels. So I think it's just a matter of the right fish and the right plants.
> 
> Beaslbob: You got me on that one......Can we consider the fact that your design has caught on and been immortalized in the tanks of others and on the internet as payment?


Aww gosh. gee whillikers, farm out, outta state. *old dude

One thing to consider is the possibility of using some kind of refugium to protect the plants.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

How does a refugium work??


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Amie said:


> How does a refugium work??


very well actually.












By defination a refugium is just a protected area for the plants to thrive in free of predation. So even just a tank partition is all that is required.

This is more of a problem with marine systems where the plant life is actually algae which are consumed by fish, snails, crabs and so on. So you almost have to set up a seperate container (or partition the display) add lights and pump water between the display and refugium. That way the plant life and display have the environment both needs to thrive.

I have seen threads where this was done on 120g cichlid (or was it a discus?)tank. The refugium was a container below the tank in the stand.

I think a planted display looks and works best. But at with some setups you do have to seperate the fish and plants. but those are pretty rare.


my .02


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for the input!

So I managed to score a free bag of play sand from a parent at my daughter's day care. Chalk one up for chatting with random parents at pickup time. 

Tonight my daughter and I are measuring a few spots that might be ok for a tank. This new tank and our existing 10 gal are turning out to be a good way to learn about science at home. Even the act of measuring the spots teaches her how to use a ruler/tape measure.

Since space is so tight, we may be going with a 14 or 26 gal Biocube with a stand. Given that it appears to have many built-in filter bits, I'm wondering how to make a Beaslbuild (R) work in that setup. 

I really want to try the layered substrate with the heavy planting. Obviously, I'll have to cut down the number of plants from the 55 gal build. If the filtration system in the Biocube is possibly going to stir up my substrate, would the use of rocks (perhaps stacked to create multiple caves) and moss anchored to those rocks a) keep the substrate in place and b) be a decent swap out for the potted plants?

I am also debating moving the fish from the 10 gal over to the new tank once the plants are established. If I do that, I obviously can't move the gravel. I also don't want to use the existing decor since I am going for a more natural look on this tank. 

Do I need to follow normal stocking methods and only add a few fish per week? Can I transfer them wholesale? I can always get new fish for a new tank, but I really like some of these fish in the 10 gal and want them to have a nicer home. Also, I wouldn't mind taking a mulligan on the 10 gal and starting over.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

My top layer in the beaslbob build is gravel. I also have filtration and it doesn't stir it up. He introduces the fish into his tanks one at first then the rest slowly and lets the tank stand for a week first, so I would go with move them over slowly. I have 1 full grown guppy in mine (and about 30 or so fry at the moment YAY!!). 

PS Got a kick out of the registered trademark thing!!!! Hilarious!!!! Too bad our fish don't appreciate how funny their people are!!!! Mine just care about me when I open the top to put in food and I don't even tell jokes then!!!!!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

CmdrSlack said:


> ...
> 
> Do I need to follow normal stocking methods and only add a few fish per week? Can I transfer them wholesale? I can always get new fish for a new tank, but I really like some of these fish in the 10 gal and want them to have a nicer home. Also, I wouldn't mind taking a mulligan on the 10 gal and starting over.


I recommend after a week of plants only to add 1 fish (in a 10g) then wait a week. With live bearers I add a single male then 2 females. With neon tetras or other schooling fish the second fish adding is like 4 to setup a school.

Then only add a single flake per day for a few weeks.

But all that is just to be cautious and has always worked.

The wife once setup a 10g with water conditioner, full of plants and added 5 glo fish and 6 neon tetras the first day. But that was close as 1 neon did die the first night. But the rest of the fish did lived for over 2 years until we took the tank down.

So you can add fish very fast but I don't recommend it. According to some natural aquarium references a key is to not add food for the first few weeks.

my .02


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

Well, the new tank will be much larger....between 20 and 30 gal. We have to locate a stand that fits in the spot we've allocated for the second tank. Bad part is that it's only 38" high, so that limits most stands available at the LFS or big box stores.

Tonight is "looking at and possibly buying a tank and plants" night so hopefully I will have pictures soon.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

For that size tank, if it were me, I would get a good strong coffee table, of appropriate size. The stands always seem to high to me and I'm always afraid that they might tip or something in my house (3 kids 18 month old twins-one of whom is a real climber and an 8 year old).


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Amie said:


> For that size tank, if it were me, I would get a good strong coffee table, of appropriate size. The stands always seem to high to me and I'm always afraid that they might tip or something in my house (3 kids 18 month old twins-one of whom is a real climber and an 8 year old).


That would have put my tank within my kid's arms reach. A very dangerous place to be!

Actually my youngest (5) uses the chairs to get to everything, so nothing is truly safe. I am glad we waited long enough for him to understand overfeeding=dead fish. As much as he loves feeding time it would have been a disaster. Good point on tipping though... that age is just downright scary.


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

Finally settled on a 29 gal tank. Got a stand for $69 (slightly dinged floor model for the win) and a 29 gal tank kit. Once I snagged loads of plants, some gravel, peat moss, and a planted piece of driftwood, the damages were $340. 

I have about seven bunches of anacharis, a micro sword, an amazon sword, two anubias, whatever is planted on the driftwood, and a couple other plants, bringing the total to 7 of varied potted things. I have no idea what is on the planted driftwood, but it looks nifty and was in an established tank. 

Photos to come, probably some before and after once I add fish.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Me personally, I would have done that over the span of a few days: got the tank and set it up and got the substrate in one day then go get the plants. But, as long as you kept them good and wet they should be fine anyway. 

IMO, do the substrate, then add the plants and THEN fill it with water. VERY carefully though so as not to disturb the bottom.


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

I was up till 3 AM doing just that. The plants are already tossing out new bits of root, etc. I did keep the lights on for longer than I would do with fish in the tank, but mostly to encourage exactly that. 

The only real "issue" was that we had some bubbles coming up on the first full day. Now that they've settled down, the water is clearing up and looking great. The worst part of the process was pouring water in a gallon at a time while holding the dish to prevent serious splashing. I'm glad I didn't get a bigger tank.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I have my light on all day long and turn it off when I go to bed. No casualties yet and no algae yet either. I still have small bubbles in my substrate. I think because it is not heavily planted. I made a few small holes with my finger the other day and let some of them out.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

CmdrSlack said:


> I was up till 3 AM doing just that. The plants are already tossing out new bits of root, etc. I did keep the lights on for longer than I would do with fish in the tank, but mostly to encourage exactly that.
> 
> The only real "issue" was that we had some bubbles coming up on the first full day. Now that they've settled down, the water is clearing up and looking great. The worst part of the process was pouring water in a gallon at a time while holding the dish to prevent serious splashing. I'm glad I didn't get a bigger tank.


Isn't it exciting. I have had some late nights also.

One of the amazing things is it actually took less time to fill my 55g tank. I used a faucet adapter and some clear plastic hose. Just ran the water from the faucet to the tank. Took about 15-20 minutes.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Buy a tank refill kit. Comes with vacuum tube, hose, faucet adapter, and 25ft of hose.


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

I know this build isn't supposed to involve water changes, but I'm getting a bit concerned. My ammonia has zeroed out, but nitrIte and nitrate have been stuck at 2ppm and 5-10ppm, respectively, for two and a half days. 

I lost one molly today, but the rest seem fine. I stopped feeding in the hopes that the nitrIte spike would level out, but so far, no change.

A partial water change is how I'd do any other tank, but the bealsbob system eschews the conventional wisdom. 

So yeah.

I'm stuck. 

Fish loss is part of cycling with fish, but I always feel bad about it. My need to feel less guilt has me wavering towards water change...like 20%ish.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

CmdrSlack said:


> I know this build isn't supposed to involve water changes, but I'm getting a bit concerned. My ammonia has zeroed out, but nitrIte and nitrate have been stuck at 2ppm and 5-10ppm, respectively, for two and a half days.
> 
> I lost one molly today, but the rest seem fine. I stopped feeding in the hopes that the nitrIte spike would level out, but so far, no change.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the loss of the molly. 

and fish loss is not part of cycling with fish.

I always lost my first cycle fish with exactly the same symptoms. On the same day (like day 5). Untill I took the attitude I'm not going to add food because that fish will die on day 5 anyway. 

but to my surprise the fish lived.

Symptoms were heavy breathing day 3. Slowing down and at bottom of tank day 4. Dead day 5. This happened in10 or so tanks I started since the late '70's. Just like clockwork. The second fish always lived.

But with the 1/2 dozen of so tanks I have started without adding food the first week, all the fish have lived.

I also have not use mollys to cycle.

my .02


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

I did a 5gal water change for good measure. 

I've had success with mollies so far, largely because they seem to be really hardy. These fish didn't even seem sick, so I guess it could have been just a "sometimes fish die" moment. 

Now I just want the water to even out so I can get something to dispose of all of these snails! I appear to have inherited quite the colony of tagalongs when I bought these plants. Looks like I'm gonna need a bigger loach.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

CmdrSlack said:


> I did a 5gal water change for good measure.
> 
> I've had success with mollies so far, largely because they seem to be really hardy. These fish didn't even seem sick, so I guess it could have been just a "sometimes fish die" moment.
> 
> Now I just want the water to even out so I can get something to dispose of all of these snails! I appear to have inherited quite the colony of tagalongs when I bought these plants. Looks like I'm gonna need a bigger loach.


Naaaaa

In a year or so there will only be a few left.

always happens with new plants.

my .02


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

I may get a loach anyway, the yo yo and zebra loaches look cool. It also appears that some clown loaches may be "close enough" to a clownfish for my kid's tastes. 

My main concern there is the "can get big" factor, but whatever, I'm not pushing this tank to the full fish limit anyway.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

You are also suposed to keep them in a school, I've seen 75 gallons minimum for clown loach.


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## CmdrSlack (Oct 12, 2010)

Yep, after some loach reading, it seems that perhaps the zebra or yo yo would make more sense.


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