# API TEST RESULTS ROUND 4: Please Help Me Analyze...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Okay. My Red Cap Oranda began to show signs of orangey spots on her body and scales, and developed a reddish area near her rear fantails, so I thought something must be up with my water, once again (which, incidently, looks horrid since the diatoms have taken over the tank again; they're almost "tinting" my water brownish they're so bad)...so I broke out the API kit this morning, and came up with these results:

*High PH: 8.2 (is this okay for goldfish?)

Ammonia: 0-0.25 (STILL remaining at this level no matter how many times I test; I am chalking this up to keeping a variety of fancy goldfish...)

Nitrite: 0-0.25 (this seemed to climb a bit from the last couple of tests, which both registered "0")

Nitrate: Anywhere from 10 to 40 ppm -- this has been nearly impossible to read exactly, as my water test sample gives an orange shade that can fall into any of these ranges...*

Can anyone help me analyze these? Do they look good/bad for a freshwater fancy goldfish tank?


----------



## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

how long has this tank been setup?

have any fish been added to the tank recently?


typically diatoms only appear in a newly setup aquarium and will only last a week and then disappear for good, then the fight with green algae begins  but if this tank is only 3 or 4 weeks old, I'd say it's just fishing up the cycle. if you've recently added new fish, if could be going through a mini-cycle and causing the readings

the tinting of the water could also be from wood decor like drift wood. I put a new piece of store bought wood in a 10 gallon I just set up about 2 weeks ago, and the wood is still leaching tannin into the water and tinting it a yellowish brown color. it'll eventually go away with water changes, it just takes a while


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It amazes me that even after this long you still have ammonia and now nitrites to deal with. Providing you're not over feeding, it seems that your bio-load is beyond your filter's capacity. Although, not sure how that is possible with the filters you have. 

Stop feeding for 2-3 days and test again. Your fish will be fine doing that. Regular water changes would benefit. What kind of filter maintenance do you do?


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> how long has this tank been setup?
> 
> have any fish been added to the tank recently?
> 
> ...


Hydro,

This is not a brand new tank -- it's been running for about five to six months. And I don't have any driftwood in the tank. Also, the diatoms WILL NOT go away on their own so far...I ripped everything out of the tank a couple of weeks ago to wash all decor down with hot water to scrub off the diatoms, returned everything to their place in the tank, and the water quality got much better. This lasted for about a week, when the diatoms returned in an even more aggressive state -- they're covering just about everything now, including spots on the glass which we wipe off with a magnet algae scraper...

So, the "tinting" of the water isn't from any tannins from driftwood -- I don't have any in my tank. The water quality seems to get progressively worse every time the diatoms pop back up. I just today dropped Seachem's PHOSGUARD into my filter, so I'll see if this helps eat up the silicates that may be in my tap water -- the ONLY thing I can think of at this point that is causing the brown diatoms.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> It amazes me that even after this long you still have ammonia and now nitrites to deal with.


Tell me about it -- I am ready to seriously give up on this whole thing...I don't want to kill my fish, but I seriously have had it with this hobby. It seems every day brings worse and worse water quality, and I don't know what to do about it...

The ammonia levels, though, can't be considered "okay" or nominal at 0-0.25 for four goldfish? And my Nitrites seem bad to you? 



> Providing you're not over feeding, it seems that your bio-load is beyond your filter's capacity. Although, not sure how that is possible with the filters you have.


Here's another head scratcher for me -- you nailed it. I cannot BELIEVE these two filters aren't working on keeping this water clean and clear; I mean, all I kept hearing about was the "AquaClear 110!" and "Get the AquaClear 110 -- you will NEVER see water that clear!" But since installing this unit, I just don't see crystal clear water...at all. 

As for the feeding, I am feeding once per day, enough for them to consume in a few minutes, and sometimes a very small "snack" in the evening... 



> Stop feeding for 2-3 days and test again. Your fish will be fine doing that. Regular water changes would benefit. What kind of filter maintenance do you do?


I'm currently not doing any water changes, but I don't see how this would stop the diatoms at least because if it's my tap water, I only pour more of it in during changes/top offs anyway; so I don't think this cycle can ever be broken. 

Are you SURE the fish could go two to three days without feeding?


----------



## soc200 (Feb 2, 2011)

ClinicaTerra said:


> As for the feeding, I am feeding once per day, enough for them to consume in a few minutes, and sometimes a very small "snack" in the evening...


And why are you feeding them this "snack" ? Even if the food doesn't rot...it will certainly cause more ammonia to be produced by the fish. i have no problem with extra feedings for enjoyment...but this seems like a bad time to be introducing extra ammonia into the system.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

soc200 said:


> And why are you feeding them this "snack" ? Even if the food doesn't rot...it will certainly cause more ammonia to be produced by the fish. i have no problem with extra feedings for enjoyment...but this seems like a bad time to be introducing extra ammonia into the system.


No apparent reason; they seem to congregate at the top of the glass each evening, expecting it...


----------



## soc200 (Feb 2, 2011)

So in essence, the fish have trained you. :fish-in-a-bag:


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Indeed...:fish-in-bowl:


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

LOL, yes, your fish can go a couple of days for sure. I just got back from being gone for a full week on the west coast and my fish were fed Sun morning and not again until Fri night. They were perfectly fine. I have heard of people leaving for longer than that, but not sure I'd try more than a week. 


I read an article on feeding a few weeks ago that talked about one of the best things to do for the health of your fish and your biofilter is to skip a day on feeding. Remember your bio-filter is your beneficial bacteria filtering your fish waste. Skipping the day there is less chance of uneaten food, your fish aren't creating as much of their own waste, and the bio-filter has a chance to "catch up" so to speak. It is actually healthier for your fish as well. I'd skip for 2-3 days to try and give the system a little time to deal with the ammonia and nitrite and see if it helps.

The AC110 is a good filter, but there are better more costly one out there. However, you not doing water changes may make the filter not as effective as it could be - possible anyhow. I think you'd be better served with a canister filter that has huge chambers that are filled with biological media instead of the little bag that is in an AC filter. There are some that are about the same price as the AC110 or maybe a little more if this is even an option you wanted to explore?

Your diatom issue is a different issue altogether.


----------



## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm still rather new to this hobby, but I recently concurred my ammonia problems by doing a deep gravel cleaning. Instead of doing just the surface of the gravel, I push the siphon all the way down to the bottom and stirred it a bit. Ended up pull quite a bit of white hazey debris. When from a reading of 2 to 0 with a couple dedicated back to back cleanings.

Worth a shot if you haven't done so yet. Have no idea what to do about the diatoms.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> LOL, yes, your fish can go a couple of days for sure. I just got back from being gone for a full week on the west coast and my fish were fed Sun morning and not again until Fri night. They were perfectly fine. I have heard of people leaving for longer than that, but not sure I'd try more than a week.


Really? You should have told me you were gonna be on the west coast -- perhaps you coulda popped over and looked at my tank and its problems, and I woulda bought you dinner or a beer! 



> I read an article on feeding a few weeks ago that talked about one of the best things to do for the health of your fish and your biofilter is to skip a day on feeding. Remember your bio-filter is your beneficial bacteria filtering your fish waste. Skipping the day there is less chance of uneaten food, your fish aren't creating as much of their own waste, and the bio-filter has a chance to "catch up" so to speak. It is actually healthier for your fish as well. I'd skip for 2-3 days to try and give the system a little time to deal with the ammonia and nitrite and see if it helps.


Okay -- good information and insight here; much appreciated. I will try skipping for two to three days...

Although, at 0-0.25, is my ammonia that bad? 



> The AC110 is a good filter, but there are better more costly one out there. However, you not doing water changes may make the filter not as effective as it could be - possible anyhow. I think you'd be better served with a canister filter that has huge chambers that are filled with biological media instead of the little bag that is in an AC filter. There are some that are about the same price as the AC110 or maybe a little more if this is even an option you wanted to explore?


I hear you...I didn't really want to get into more/new filtration any time soon, as the price of the 110 was steep for us at the time and I kept hearing how great this unit was and how I HAD to have one on my tank. Indeed, you could be right about the water changes. If I go the canister route, does the biological media work on actually keeping the water quality high and the clarity pristine? I thought the biological part of filtration is really just for the BB to grow and such...

I really would like to see if I could keep just the Aqueon and AquaClear units I have on the back for now, and try and make them work at their peak efficiency -- between all that is going on between the diatoms and the bad water quality and some whacked out readings from the API kit, I don't know if I am coming or going; should I get a diatom filter? A canister filter? BOTH? Replace the HOBs I have on the tank now? Add to them? :fish9:



> Your diatom issue is a different issue altogether.


I realize this; actually, I dropped in the small bag of Seachem PhosGuard last night that I ordered (into the AC 110) and so far it has not done anything...the diatoms are still clinging to everything in the tank...


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

FlatPanda said:


> I'm still rather new to this hobby, but I recently concurred my ammonia problems by doing a deep gravel cleaning. Instead of doing just the surface of the gravel, I push the siphon all the way down to the bottom and stirred it a bit. Ended up pull quite a bit of white hazey debris. When from a reading of 2 to 0 with a couple dedicated back to back cleanings.
> 
> Worth a shot if you haven't done so yet. Have no idea what to do about the diatoms.


I don't have an "ammonia problem" per se; the reading wasn't that off the charts -- it was somewhere between 0 and 0.25...


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> The ammonia levels, though, can't be considered "okay" or nominal at 0-0.25 for four goldfish? And my Nitrites seem bad to you?


Should be zero but goldfish keepers often report occasional readings, they are such messy fish, thankfully also very hardy.




> As for the feeding, I am feeding once per day, enough for them to consume in a few minutes, and sometimes a very small "snack" in the evening...


From my experience goldfish can eat A LOT in 'a few minutes'. Some are greedier than others but I'd try feeding them more like what they can eat in 1 minute, as long as they are all getting food that is likely to be enough.



> Are you SURE the fish could go two to three days without feeding?


It's good for them to skip feeding for a day or two once in a while, that is more like how they would eat in the wild and is not so hard on their digestion if their stomachs get the chance to completely empty once in a while. A week without food would not hurt them, probably much more but a week is safe.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

snail said:


> Should be zero but goldfish keepers often report occasional readings, they are such messy fish, thankfully also very hardy.


Right -- I've always understood it that goldfish can fall into the "0.25" range during readings, and that most kits are really at 0 when they read 0.25...



> From my experience goldfish can eat A LOT in 'a few minutes'. Some are greedier than others but I'd try feeding them more like what they can eat in 1 minute, as long as they are all getting food that is likely to be enough.


Okay; but I don't think this ammonia issue is really an issue at all -- my tank doesn't look good from all the diatoms, but the readings from this last round of tests didn't really come back all that bad...

Did they? 



> It's good for them to skip feeding for a day or two once in a while, that is more like how they would eat in the wild and is not so hard on their digestion if their stomachs get the chance to completely empty once in a while. A week without food would not hurt them, probably much more but a week is safe.


Good to know; thank you.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think your ammonia problem is bad, but the fact that it is persistent enough to cause a nitrite reading is not good though.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

So, Nitrite should not be where it is, above 0?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nitrites can be more toxic than ammonia. It should be zero.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Okay -- I am going to have to do a water change then...

What about my other readings; do they look OK or are they off to? I.e. High Ph, Nitrates...


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Other looks fine.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Other looks fine.


Nitrates and Ph is OK, really? :animated_fish_swimm :goldfish:


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Nitrates and Ph is OK, really? :animated_fish_swimm :goldfish:


Yes, both are fine. Nitrates are at the level where it is time to do a water change. The problem with that test in that range is figuring out where you really are. I usually decide I'm the higher level if it comes between 2 different colors on the chart. Better to assume worse case in all these tests if there is diffculty in chosing which level you're at.

I'm not sure what ph goldfish prefer. However, if you haven't had anything go wrong with them then they should be acclimated to your water. Too many people strive to get what they believe is the "idea" ph for a particular species, when really there are only a few of them that require very strict ranges (ex. Discus). Trying to adjust your ph through chemicals can be very dangerous to your fish. There are some natural ways, but they usually don't have a huge effect on it unless you are dosing CO2. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Yes, both are fine. Nitrates are at the level where it is time to do a water change. The problem with that test in that range is figuring out where you really are. I usually decide I'm the higher level if it comes between 2 different colors on the chart. Better to assume worse case in all these tests if there is diffculty in chosing which level you're at.


Wait -- NitrAtes are at a dangerous level, or NitrItes? Because I think you originally said my NitrAtes were okay...:fish9:



> I'm not sure what ph goldfish prefer. However, if you haven't had anything go wrong with them then they should be acclimated to your water. Too many people strive to get what they believe is the "idea" ph for a particular species, when really there are only a few of them that require very strict ranges (ex. Discus). Trying to adjust your ph through chemicals can be very dangerous to your fish. There are some natural ways, but they usually don't have a huge effect on it unless you are dosing CO2. I wouldn't worry about it.


From what I read in the API booklet, there is a certain range they prefer; I will have to recheck that...


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, nitrates are at an okay level right now, but they are approaching the level where you need a water change. All I was saying.

Don't worry about what info you read says. Your fish have been fine in your water. Leave it alone or you just ask for trouble.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Yes, nitrates are at an okay level right now, but they are approaching the level where you need a water change. All I was saying.


Oh, okay -- but so are the NitrItes, right? 



> Don't worry about what info you read says. Your fish have been fine in your water. Leave it alone or you just ask for trouble.


You mean as far as Ph goes? Or other parameters? What do you advise me to "leave alone" exactly...what parameters?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If the Nitrites don't go away after a few days of not feeding then I would do a partial water change. Yes, referring to the ph. Just leave it.


----------



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't know what to do to change the Ph anyway, so I have no choice but to leave it...


----------

