# The CO2 gods have smiled!



## coralbandit

In my acceptance of a 120 gallon saltwater tank(and more accessories than any LFS has in stock!) I have recieved a co2 tank,regulator and solenoid.Along with this comes a milwaulkee 122 pH meter,and brand new BRS pH probe(unopened).All I need is a difusser if I'm not wrong.This was all part of a "calcium reactor" dismantled a year before I got this tank(the 120 salt) so I won't be using it on the salt tank.
I instead know I want this to go on my 180 community.
Looking for a good suggestion on diffusers and what to set the pH meter at(my water is 7.6 out of tap and I change alot).
I know that most of the time drop checkers are used(needed) but with the meter I don't think I need one(correct?)?
So any suggestions on diffusers(even /maybe especially DIY) and the proper setting of the meter and I will be "in the CO2 world "and expect to be able to have healthier better plants.
I know fish people,a little help is greatly appreciated(jrman)!
My 180 has two mega overflows(surface extraction) and although easy enough to inject in tank directly ,I wonder(please help) if I can inject in my sump?


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## oldpunk

You'll need to use some kind of reactor (may be 2) or a needle wheel pump. A diffuser on a tank that size will be useless.


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## coralbandit

Tell me more OP!I thought of you too,but haven't heard from you here lately!My pH is 7.6 ,even according to the milwaulkee meter and all parts seem to be in good working order.I just hooked up the electricals and ran the co2 line from basement to tank!Waiting to here how to do this right(you're the man on plants)!


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## oldpunk

Honestly, I'd just run a needle wheel pump. You'd have to get used to the mist but its probably the easiest way to do it. Just add it to one of your returns. 

Another easy and cheap way to do it would be to just add a reactor to one of the return lines.

On a tank that big, you'd probably be better off using two of something but that will add to cost by a lot beause you'll have to figure out how to add another needle valve to your set up.


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## coralbandit

OK !I was lost with needle wheel pump(in the freshwater world) but three of my saltwater skimmers have needle wheel pumps.I get it! Thanks a ton OP!I need to break up bubbles so hopefully none ever get to surface huh?
A reactor could just be "bio balls" in a chamber on my return line huh?
What if I fed co2 into powerhead in tank and used something like vacumm pointed down down to help co2 saturate the water(hopefully no bubbles would ever come out.)?
I know if bubbles hit surface I'm wasting co2 so getting it to saturate is very important!


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## jccaclimber2

I personally like my reactor. I formerly used a needle wheel pump but 1) Didn't like the noise (I don't like the fan on my light either) and 2) Didn't like the 7-up look in the tank. Then again I run a lot of CO2. Personally I think the drop checker (less than $10 on ebay) is worth it. That tells you when things are way off (CO2 runs out, solenoid gets stuck one way or the other, etc). While many like pH meters I prefer to use nothing but a needle valve and solenoid for the following reasons:
1) I don't feel like calibrating a pH probe. Those little guys do wander a bit contrary to popular belief.
2) If the buffering/pH of your source water changes you could have very little CO2 or so much that you kill your fish depending on which way it goes. My water gets softer (ok, less like a rock) in the spring and harder if there's a drought during the summer.

I do my rough adjustment with the needle valve and my fine adjustment with the regulator pressure.


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## jccaclimber2

And just in case you aren't doing it already, regular fertilizing goes very well with CO2.


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## coralbandit

Thanks JC I have dry macro/micros that jrman recommended but haven't been able to use sucessfully without the co2(nitrates when up like hot air ballon!).I certainly will give them a go again once I "boost the need of my plants"!
Got to say this all came with a saltwater tank give away and I'm so phsyched to bump my 180 FW along with it all.
I have wanted co2 for my 180 for over a year,but just didn't have 3-5 hundred bucks to do it right.
I'm sure the meter isn't full proof but since I keep 350 gl of salt tanks it will be no big deal to check my pH in the 180 2x a week.I test like the mad hatter on most others!
You really do get what you put in to it so I know this is not a "plug and play" thing,but it is about as close as I get for where I'm going!


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## coralbandit

OK so just hooked up co2 to powerhead with no diffuser or "fancy attachments" and it ran blowing a ton of bubbles(that defiantely hit surface) for less than 3 minutes and meter says pH 6.2!
Really? that much co2 can't help my plants can it?Couldn't do a bubble per second count as it was flowing out!
Glad it shut itself down as it leads to next question : if this was even hooked up right(don't think it is).
I changed a lot of water ,like 50-75% aweek and being my pH is 7.6 from tap is this going to be an issue with "swings"?I don't the swing will last long from what I just saw?
The meter was set for pH of 7,and fish look fine,although my rummy nose seemed to start their evening activity a little early.
There is a needle valve on regulator and two pressure gauges.What should my pressure be set at /or does it matter if the meter shuts it off upon reaching parameters?


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## jrman83

I found that using a ph meter for a planted tank wasn't really worth the hassle. Much easier to set it to run during your lighting period and monitor with a DC. It works best for me. One less thing to worry about and no need for calibration and keeping cal liquids available.

I wouldn't worry about swings. Mine will swing over one full point and have never had an issue with the ph returning to previous level. My kh is 5dkh.


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## coralbandit

I certainly would not have invested in all this equipment.I see no reason to not have a DC(they're cheap),and a good safety backup.I'm loaded with timers(my original co2 setup plan was of this nature),so if something goes "haywire" I will kick it back to less "high tech".
Thanks everyone,I'm greatful!


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## jccaclimber2

The first gage is tank pressure. The CO2 inside is mostly liquid form, so the pressure will fluctuate with temperature. It should read 700-750 psi around 60*F, up towards 950-1000 PSI at 80*. It won't start to dive until your tank runs out, at which point you will want to get it swapped out or refilled (should be around $20 at a welding or fire extinguisher place).
The second gage is the pressure going to your needle valve, and then eventually the rest of your system.
Don't worry about pH swings from the CO2, hasn't hurt me or dozens (probably hundreds if not thousands) of other people.
Look to your fish and plants to see if your levels are right.
Be aware that you can't make fine adjustments with cheap (Milwaukee) needle valves.
On a 180 you aren't going to be able to count the bubbles through water. You can however slow them down using mineral oil in the bubble counter and then shoot a video of them....or you can just wing it and only make small changes.
Wait a couple days between changes.
Try to be around for the second half of the light cycle after you make a change.

The last couple comments only apply if you're trying to max out the CO2 you can run. If you stay around 30 PPM this isn't as much of an issue. Do keep decent surface movement though.


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## coralbandit

OK so I think I got this "dialed in" a little better.1bubble per second through bubble counter and barely visable bubbles comming out of powerhead,with few to none make surface.The system definately runs much longer this way,as last night I had it "pouring out" co2 like water out of a garden hose.The meter is set for 6.8 pH.
JC;180 gallon tank with dual mega overflows,should always have adequate surface movement huh?
The owners manual says it is a "blue line " regulator.Between the regulator adjustment and needle valve not that diffacult to adjust(so far).


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## jccaclimber2

You'll have plenty of surface movement with the overflows, although you may gas a lot of it off (this can be handy at times). Once you get a drop checker in there you'll have a better idea of where things are at.


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## coralbandit

Dialed down to around 2-3 bps the co2 has been running most of the day with the pH staying steady at 6.9-7.I've been checking with API liquid test to make sure.so far so good fish seem fine(last thing I want is gas my fish!).drop checker is just going to indicate my pH right?


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## coralbandit

How does this one look?
Drop Checker CO2 Ph Test Live Aquarium Plant Diffuser | eBay


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## pineappleswordies

From what I have read the drop checker uses a solution that is at a certain dkh where at around 30ppm CO2 it turns green. It measures the pH of the air coming off of the surface of the water(the air off the surface of water underwater since the checker is in the tank)which has whatever concentration of CO2 and the color changes based on the amount of CO2 in the space which is being absorbed into the solution. But yeah its a pH meter of the air coming out of your water, basically.


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## jccaclimber2

The drop checker looks fine. Be aware that you will need some (otherwise unbuffered) 4dkh fluid, NOT distilled water, and not tank water. The 'reagent' they include is just pH solution (bromothymol blue). It's the same stuff as in the API test kit (low range). Properly used it will tell you (with a couple hour delay) approximately what your CO2 levels are.


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## coralbandit

I didn't like the directions they had ,already hearing about the 4 dkh many times from you guys!
Thanks!


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## jrman83

greenleaf sells 4dkh or you can make it.


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## coralbandit

So I do seem to have this dialed in well(I think).The system runs almost all day and is even on on the a.m. when the lights come on.So my question is ;is it best to administer the CO2 all day or increase amount being injected so that it turns on and off.I would think constant to be better but I am new to the CO2 stuff.


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## jccaclimber2

There's no need to run it at night.


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## coralbandit

I know it doesn't need to on at night ,and I may put it on timer, but it will shut off when it reaches the pre set pH 6.7.So far it is very accurate so I'm not messing with it,although I may turn it up a little just to see if it will shut down for any period of time(maybe it is off at night I havent checked).


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## coralbandit

OK I don't think it is not running at night as it has been off for last 2hrs(full daylight cycle).It is computer run(I don't trust them fully,but I've been working and I guess it is working when I'm not here.) So time will tell and I have yet to get drop checker or a better diffusion system then it just being shot out of my hagen 400 powerhead(old school with new tech?).


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## jrman83

That was my question...what does the desired ph setting indictae on your DC? If it didn't show green, how do yo know what kind of concentation level you are at?


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## coralbandit

Just ordered drop checker with 4 kh solution and reagent.
CO2 Drop Checker | eBay


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## jrman83

Good deal! So now you will know if the setting you have for your ph controller provides somewhere in the green zone for your DC. I say somewhere because there can be a few different shades of green.


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## coralbandit

Yea,I am really phsyched to see how much this addition can help me grow better plants.I really appreciate everyones help on this as I am a "newb" to pressurised co2,but it has been on my "wish list" for a long time and I have tried to pay attention to everthing all of you have told others.
I have even started back up with the ferts you recommended to me(jrman) as I hopefully will be increasing my plants needs in all ways!


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## coralbandit

Ok drop checker ,4kh solution and reagent arrived today!I filled the ball 1/2 way with 4 kh solution and added 4 drops of reagent(no instructions were included with this,but I guess if you didn't know a little about this stuff you would never order a drop checker).
So my question is ,the liquid combo in ball is not "super blue/real blue".It is slightly blue ,but in the tank fairly hard to recognise.So should I add more of the reagent till I see it is "true blue?
For now I am waiting the "couple of hours" to see if it changes at all and if I notice it.
Still need to work out a more efficient diffusion system .Am thinking of incorporating a calcium reactor "vessel" with "bio balls" or something to get better mix going.
Any suggestions?
And it seems that the water disappears from my bubble counter on the regulator set up? Is it going back into the tank possibly and should I care since I will exchange it anyways when it is empty?It may be leaking out(I know bubble counters are known for this),but I don't really see any signs of it leaking.


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## jrman83

I only put 4 drops of the ph regeant in mine. What type of filter are you running again? Not sure about your bubble counter. Most have a check valve in the bottom connection point to prevent water going back into your CO2 tank.

Drop checkers do not react very quickly. You will see slight changes in the color before the entire thing changes color.


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## jccaclimber2

Try baby/mineral oil rather than water in your bubble counter. Also check for drops around the base of it where they generally leak. Four drops sounds about right for reagent. Remember that there can be a couple hour delay on drop checkers, and that you need to change the fluid periodically. I use a downflow reactor for my CO2.


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## coralbandit

My filter is a marineland model 4 sump with a 29 gallon tank running in series.It has many overflows and drip plates so I know it will outgas alot of what I am trying to add.

AOL Search
This is it ,but I have removed 1 of the bio wheels.


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## coralbandit

So the drop checker seems good and I tested the 4 kh solution and it to is good, but the reagent supplied not so good.I added 7 drops eventually to be able to see blue and was more than a little uncomfortable with this.It also never really seemed to show any color change(kind of feel like newb not being able to tell color on test,but I'll get this figured out in time).
I dumped and switched to my API pH reagent(still had to add 4 drops to get a good blue) and have driven the pH down to 6.1 and am still in the blue/green color range ,definately not yellow.
So I'll give it another day or two to see where it goes and how fish fare(most important to me) and possibly be turning the co2 up a little more!
I realise that with the dual mega overflows and all the surface exchanges that take place in the filter that I will lose co2,but the pH monitor(for computer controller) is after all of them so I guess I never thought that I would be taking a tank with 7.6 pH down to 6 or maybe even less but we'll see!


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## jrman83

The API stuff is all I use. I threw away all of the stuff that came with the DCs I bought. If the plants you have were doing well without the CO2 and you haven't added any that nearly "require" CO2, I wouldn't worry about trying to get it to green if you are dangerously low in ph. The main thing is you're not hitting solid yellow.


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## coralbandit

So with the change in reagents my drop checker is green! The monitor is set for 6.1-6.2 pH and all fish seem to be fine with it.I don't have this system on a timer so it is possible it runs at night ,but I'm not really concerened.I will monitor and see how long the tank(20 lbs I think) last.I haven't even noticed the pressure(for tank) gauge even move yet and when it is on it really shoots a lot of co2 into tank.
I have noticed some new growth on my hygro in particular so I really think this is making a noticable difference and can't wait to see the long term effects.
Thanks so much to everyone who has helped me out so far.
Still just injecting with 2 powerheads.


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## jccaclimber2

I'm glad to hear that it is working. While there aren't any strong livestock detractors from running CO2 at night, it will last ~3 times longer if you only run it when your lights are on (assuming 8 hours per day).


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## jrman83

^Agree. The pressure on the tank will stay constant (usually) until your tank is on its last days and the pressure will start to drop. Once you know it is moving you should check it everyday. It usually only last about 5-6 days after that.


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## coralbandit

OK!Thanks guys I'll get a timer on this tomorrow.What should be the schedule?1 hour before lights on and 1 hour after lights off?


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## jrman83

1 before/1 before or just match the hours. Something pretty close to that will work. Doesn't have to be too precise.


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## coralbandit

jrman83 said:


> ^Agree. The pressure on the tank will stay constant (usually) until your tank is on its last days and the pressure will start to drop. Once you know it is moving you should check it everyday. It usually only last about 5-6 days after that.


It is empty today!
I'm glad I got you guys to help with all this.You all really know what you're talking about!Thanks!


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## jccaclimber2

That went down awfully fast, even for a large tank. I would check the system for leaks (especially at the CGA320 fitting). When you refill the tank some places tell you to replace the nylon or rubber seal, others tell you it is fine if in good condition. I've never replaced mine, but I always leak check the joint. The recommended torque for a CGA320 fitting (per Concoa and Air Products) is 20 ft-lbf with a max of 30 ft-lbf. Following that with some personal experience I know people who have exceeded that and I've never seen one strip (not that you want to strip one). Remember that the regulator will strip before the tank, so you'll be the one left with bad threads.


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## coralbandit

I'll definately check the rubber seals and leak test tonight.Just had tank refilled as they said it was a nice aluminum one and all they had to swap out was steel.I'm thinking of using "teflon " tape ,more specifically the yellow tape made for gas to seal all threads.
When I hooked back up I realised I'd be taking my tank pH from 7.5(it climbed quite a bit today after lights came on) to 6.1 and decided to adjust computer to 6.6 just for a while(the large pH swing makes me nervous).I'll monitor my drop checker and where we are really at!


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## jccaclimber2

Don't bother with teflon on the threads, the threads on a CGA320 fitting aren't the sealing surface. Even if you do seal those it would leak between the nut and stem on the regulator side. Just make sure the nylon gasket is in decent shape and passes a bubble test. Dish soap with just a bit of water works really well for this.


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## jrman83

A bottle of 409 works good for that. All the other cleaners don't seem to suds up enough.

If it is a 20lb tank it should last you 3-4 months at least even with it coming on at all hours like you have been doing. My 20lb tank, which the local place has only been able to completely fill once, will last about 3 months with the usual 13-14lbs they are able to get into it.


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## jccaclimber2

Sounds like a good reason to exchange the tank at a welding place Ben, what's up with the partial fill issue?
I can see 409 sudsing well, keep it really far away from polycarb though.


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## jrman83

I go to a sports store that uses a large capacity tank to fill smaller tanks - mostly used for paintball stuff. I can get more if they just changed the tank. I only pay by the pound anyway, so it really doesn't matter too much. The welding supply store I used to go to stopped filling anything over 5lbs and I only have one that small so I gave up on them.


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## jccaclimber2

I suppose it isn't so bad if you're paying by the pound. The stores here charge a flat rate by the tank size. Its ~$16 for a 5 pound tank, $17 for a 10 pound tank, and $18 for a 20 pound tank. A 50 pound tank is only ~$20, but I haven't found a reasonably priced 50 pound tank for sale yet.


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## coralbandit

I got the tank all equipment for free(beside the drop checker).I have no clue how much co2 was in tank, but it is alot heavier now than when I got it.


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## jccaclimber2

If you have a bathroom scale do yourself a favor and weigh it with the regulator installed. Put some masking tape on the tank (or don't) and record the weight on the tank with a marker. That way three months from now if you want to know whats left you can weigh it again and know about how long you have to go.


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## coralbandit

Just weighed it 49.2lbs.It is an aluminum tank so is this a 50lb tank?
Just checked and most aluminum tanks are around 25lbs.empty so I guessI got a 20lb tank.
It definately wasn't even half full when I got it.


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## jccaclimber2

Probably a 20 pound tank. The nominal weight is the quantity of compressed gas it holds, not the actual weight. For reference, 50 pound tanks are a bit more than 4 feet tall and actually weigh around 100 pounds (not sure if this is full or empty, but I'm guessing empty).


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## jrman83

Just remember that CO2 is in liquid form. This is why you can't position them in any other position other than upright. This is also why the pressure stays the same until it is almost out.


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## coralbandit

OK it would seem I am wasting co2 as I have used 9 lbs since last fill(10/5)!I have reduced the input(bubble count) so the gas can be better disolved by the powerheads.It would seem there is no way I would get even 1 month out of this so this is my next adjustment.
Maybe I really need a needle wheel impellar(power head) like old punk said?
I have many over flows(gas exchanges) in my tank and filter and I am trying to apply to 180 gallon!


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## jccaclimber2

How about a pvc reactor?


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## jrman83

I think your problem is definitely how you are diffusing the CO2. Going through a sump/wet-dry will not help either, but your filter is fairly enclosed if I remember right. I tried putting a standard wet/dry on my 125g and couldn't get it to hold any particular level of CO2. Even tried sealing it off and it didn't work.

Those two things may definitely working against you and then you're doing it on a 180. You could put another valve on the manifold and run a second line.


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## coralbandit

I definately had bubbles to large as some were directly rising to surface of tank.Now they are "micro" bubbles comming from both powerheads when it turns on.The bubbles definately stay in the water column much longer now.They seem to be almost every where in the tank.I have yet to any "pearling" on any plants,do only certain plants do this?
How often should I change the fluid in my drop checker to be safe?I have adjusted the monitor to keep pH at 6.7 and DC is still green so maybe I could lower the amount of co2 even a little more?
Right now my injection is 2 hagen 400 powerheads,would a reactor in the sump help(don't really want one in the tank)?


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## jrman83

All my plants pearl. With a lot of movement in the tank it may be difficult to see sometimes. Turn everything off and give it a few minutes and you will see if they are or not.

Reactors are usually outside and a PVC (DIY) would certainly be. Reactors produce little to no bubbles and the CO2 is mostly already dissolved before entering the tank.


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## coralbandit

Just got this
sera GmbH - Products - sera flore CO2 active reactor 500 / 1000
Although small I hope it will help in the absorbsing of co2.I just need to figure out how to drive it as I don't want to slow down my returns even a little.So maybe one of the mag 350's will come out of the attick to power it.
It has needles on the first propeller and seems well built(it was new in my #1 LFS).
Do you guys think I could run this in my sump and not impair its effectivness to much?


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## jccaclimber2

Should work. Its hard to tell how big that is from the photo, but my main concern is pushing too much water through it and blowing the CO2 bubbles out the bottom rather than letting them roll around in the water.


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## coralbandit

I got the 500 so it is not real big but I just read a post on ptf from 2010 and they seemed impressed!So can I install this in my sump?I know it would be better in my tank(or at least piped directly to tank) but my pH meter(milwaulkee computer) is in sump and I have drop checker in tank.I am on timer now also as to not blow gas at night.


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## jrman83

You may just need to try it and see how it goes. I would guess some loss by having it in your sump but maybe not or at least not too bad.


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## coralbandit

Installed reactor in sump with a hagen 50 powerhead to drive it.I have the return from reactor directly under intake for the mag 24 return pump and my drop checker is green after hours of fiddling with adjustments.A bubble or two escape the reactor as I have turned up the bubble count,but they get chopped up by the mag 24 so I think this is going to work.
Does anyone think it makes a difference if I put the powerhead for reactor on the computer switch (with timer) or just leave it going 24/7(it is only pumping water when co2 is off,which isn't very long).
I won't give up on this quickly,but I will say I think there is "a little more" to adding co2 to 180+ gallons with dual overflows and "wet dry" filters(probly not how most do it HUH?)


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## coralbandit

Noticing "pearling" and micro bubbles actually comming from plants this evening!Seems like the reactor may help a little?


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## jrman83

Sounds like you pretty much got it figured out.


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## coralbandit

Going to say I am very pleased with the sera reactor.It is in my second stage of the sump,while the pH probe for controller is in first stage(meaning the effect must travel to the tank,through the tank and make it to the probe(after all the overflows ) in order to be detected by probe.
My drop checker turns green within an hour or so in am(when timmer turns unit on) and never changes again throughout the day.My pH is 7.5 every am and 6.5 when co2 is running.This is the change needed to change color in DC so I guess we are all dialed in now.Just wish I could bring myself to shorten light cycle!I'll try to work on this!


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## coralbandit

OK so I am dialing down the light cycle and upping the amount of light!I was unhappy with the light I was using([email protected]'t5ho & 1 4' LED strip).I pulled the t5 and added a total of 20' more LEDs! OH YEA high light by my best guess!I still have 6' of LED on for 12+ hours,but the rest come on mid day and run for like 6 hours.We'll see how this works out.


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## jccaclimber2

More importantly, how do the plants look?


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## coralbandit

Some have grown well,but others not so well.Pretty BS answer ,sorry.Wisteria and the hygrow are improved,while hornwort and anacharis are not happy at all!
I have definately had algae issues with long lighting cycle and I know what is best ,but this is a lifestyle change for ME!I'm trying to reduce lighting cycle(and not be mad about my veiwing time of tank).
It almost seems like I'm getting diatoms now,some brown algae on some stuff?


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## jrman83

With that light and CO2, ditch the Anacharis! It's time for some reds!! You need color!!


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## Raymond S.

I hope this question doesn't bore you high tech guys(much) but I've been doing a bit of reading on the whole Co2 thing
since jrman83 keeps suggesting to me that I try DIY Co2. What I ran across was a statement that said something about the 
useful life of the Co2 was only hrs once in the water. If I'm not doing my dyslexia thing and mixing up info...isn't it safe to
say that the plants can't use it after lights out time and as such a noon cut off for the Co2 would conserve it better ?
Just following your conversations and this is not yet covered so I'm just trying to learn something for possible future use.
Ya'll don't know how many times I type (for example)whoel and need to change it to whole and if my mine does this while
typing it can/might do it while collecting info also...just trying to learn something.


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## coralbandit

I only run the co2 from 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. I'm not even sure the co2 last hours?It could outgas really quick for anyone and even quicker for me(mega overflows and sump with overflows(OVERFLOWS = gas exchange)).My pH meter says my pH is 7.4 every a.m. and 6.4 once the co2 is up and running.The co2 doesn't run constantly during the day but it does turn on several times during the cycle.I chose the pH setting by watching my drop checker,the setting is what it takes to turn it green(it is blue every a.m.).


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## jrman83

My CO2 is on the same timer as my light and on/off are the same. Controllers like Tom is using sample the ph of the water for turning on the CO2 based on the setting he has it at. Most people that use these are trying for a specific ph level, maybe not CO2 level. Either way, when the light comes on the water "should" be at a CO2 level that you would try to attain over the first hour or two in doing like I do it. If using the CO2 just for plants, it can waste a little CO2. 

The CO2 is not used by the plants when the light goes out and in fact they will respire CO2 during this time. Can't speak to how long the CO2 is in the water as that will vary by tank and depends on how much surface agitation there is. 

DIY systems will continue to produce CO2 all the time but the levels that they produce at usually don't place fish at harm and likely could only happen the first few days after a new batch or running ganged bottles.


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## Raymond S.

I very much appreciate ya'll taking the time to reply to this. I'm trying not to give a wrong impression though. I would like full
decent looking plants and see a few low tech tanks on the planted tank and most look thin or malnourished a bit. The point is I
don't know that fast growth and full healthy plants can be separated. I go in my T5 tank every two weeks to trim so not looking
to increase that if it's not necessary. I've been thinking ferts/w med light would work for me better but just don't have the
experience to make that call. I'm really scared of the Co2 for causing faster growth than I care to keep up/w.
That may give you a better idea as to why I've been reluctant to do DIY Co2. 
But thanks for this info as the sooner I feel knowledgeable about it the more likely I will be to try it.


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## coralbandit

I basically had no clue about co2(basic understanding with no practical experience).Both JR and JC have been HUGE helpers for me.The beauty of this site;KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE WHO WILL HELP.


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## coralbandit

http://www.aquariumforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=385817
So this info is greatly appreciated and after research taken to heart.
I wieghed my tank today;34 lbs.It was 49.2 when full.Just saying I'm pretty sure it is a 25lb tank what weight should I let it go to before risking the dump?
I kind of think that a dump won't have much effect on my 180 and think although no gaurentee that the pH controller would shut the system down if it actually started to flow to fast(it really is flowing much faster then if there was no pH controller anyways{like 10bbs at least}).I get it may dump so fast that the pH contorller won't catch it in time(but I wonder?),but want to take NO CHANCES and know you guys have way more experience than I in this.
So when bottle weighs like 28-30 lbs?I'm not worried about not getting 3-5 lbs that I payed for as that is way cheaper than the stock in my tank.


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## jrman83

The dump, at least when I see it occurring on my tanks happens about the time that my tanks get down to about 200psi - roughly. On my 125g that it mostly occurs on, the thing I see is an increase in the bubble rate to what I believe is about a 50% increase. Given the size of the tank it usually doesn't affect anything.

With your controller if a dump started to occur the system would probably shut down after the ph reached its target. Next time the solenoid kicked back on the dump condition would probably still be present until all of the CO2 was gone.

Personally, I think the only "real" threat to fauna would be in smaller tanks and of course the flora love it. Just look at your drop checker. If anything was at risk it would definitely be yellow.


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## jccaclimber2

I used to have a low pressure regulator plumbed in between my high pressure regulator and needle valve, that solved the issue and I ran my tanks empty. That regulator developed a leak, so now I have just the POS Milwaukee. It does increase pressure as it drains, but rather than messing with the needle valve (touchy) I adjust the regulator. This happens over several days as the tank runs empty. Once I refill the tank I just adjust the pressure back (20 psi) and still don't touch the needle valve.


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## jccaclimber2

If you want to know what your system will do when the pressure dives, close the tank and monitor the inlet and outlet pressure. This occurs much faster than the end of tank pressure rise, but the magnitude is the same. Here's what happened when I did it with my regulator:

End of tank dump with a Milwaukee regulator - YouTube


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## coralbandit

So last week i refilled tank.It wasn't completely empty but since I weighed it when full I know how close I was(thanks jc).Plants look better but I do get micro bubbles passing through reactor at the end of the day(not in the beginning,strange?).I'm thinking of adding another reactor with power head and splitting the line and turning it up a little more.I have never seen the DC go past green so I could possibly add more,or at least 
get more saturation and avoid the micro bubbles.
I'm also thinking of T ing off a seperate line to another tank with only plants in it.This really shouldn't be a problem would it?I got a brass needle valve that I can install in the line to this tank so I can limit how much goes to it.
If there are no fish in tank can go heavier on ferts and co2?This is my real question.I have been fertalising this tank regulary without any waterchanges and the plants seem to be doing well.Without fish are the rules changed?


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## jccaclimber2

No change in the rules. The water changes are still there to avoid a long term buildup, although I suspect you could do them less often. I'm not sure what nitrate levels it takes to make inverts (snails) stop breeding, but I'm betting it's really really high. CO2 you can blast. I've seen some interesting pictures (such as solid red blyxa japonica) achieved using very high light. This also required CO2 levels several times higher than what fish can survive in.


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## jrman83

You really can't tee off or split lines for CO2. Fact is, the air will just go to the place where there is the least resistance. You can got to OP's thread and read on how to add another manifold with a separate needle valve. I have a dual setup on one of my 125s.

You said you put your reactor in your sump, right? Try a setup where it hits the tank directly vs indirectly. You will still have loss, but I think you may have a slightly higher concentration in the tank with your same setting.

Red Blyxa would be awesome. Figure out how to do that JC. I use to have about 250 B. Japonica in my tanks. Down to just a few now.


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## coralbandit

Couldn't I just T the line after bubble counter and before reactor and then have needle valve on line to other tank to limit what goes to other tank?
I can't see putting the reactor in the tank and definately don't want it behind the tank (in case it would ever leak),so I was just thinking of adding another one.The one I got was undersized for my tank but the only one lfs had(they had 2 and still have the other one).


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## jrman83

You can try it. They make tee line connections for CO2. Just from what I've read, they don't work. Plus, if you put a flow valve inline to the other tank and the flow is more resistant than the mainline you may not get anything out of it.

JC is a mechanical engineer...maybe he could help on that  I think that is what he is.


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## coralbandit

I got brass compression fitting for the 1/4" tubing I use(same as for my ro).I'll bubble test my connections to make sure they're good and then just see?There are no fish in this other tank so I'm not super worried about OD ing it as long as my 180 still gets what it needs.The last tank lasted all of 2 months,some of which was before the timer was installed and it ran 24/7 if the pH controller said to.So I figured I could probly pull a little out to a smaller tank with only a diffuser in it(simple as can be).If it works I'll have a tank devoted to plants only(focus on growing as much as quick as possible) with no fish so I can push the limits a little?It really is an experiment to see how much I can push the plants with ferts and co2.


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## jccaclimber2

Do yourself a huge favor and don't try to put an extra regulating valve after the first needle valve. I'll save you the long read, but there are a couple reasons that this is little more than a headache. Put in a T right before your current needle valve and put a needle valve off of that for the other tank.


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## jccaclimber2

jrman83 said:


> You really can't tee off or split lines for CO2. Fact is, the air will just go to the place where there is the least resistance. You can got to OP's thread and read on how to add another manifold with a separate needle valve. I have a dual setup on one of my 125s.
> 
> You said you put your reactor in your sump, right? Try a setup where it hits the tank directly vs indirectly. You will still have loss, but I think you may have a slightly higher concentration in the tank with your same setting.
> 
> Red Blyxa would be awesome. Figure out how to do that JC. I use to have about 250 B. Japonica in my tanks. Down to just a few now.


I'm pretty sure I already know how to do it, I just don' have a spare CO2 setup to do it. A ton of light (I think the example involved being a couple inches under a metal halide light), and enough CO2 for the plant to survive the light (not fish safe here). I suspect that direct sunlight (outdoors) in an enclosed container with a slight CO2 feed would do the trick.


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## coralbandit

So I know you guys are used to hearing "you're right",but you are.I split the line to actually install a second(identical) reactor.I T'd it and use exact same lengths of line after and the co2 still went to only 1 reactor?(I know).Then I installed a needle valve in the line of most flow to "control it".It sort of works,as there is gas going to both reactors now ,but I have no way of knowing if they equal.
I guess I'm going to get in a DIY manifold with multiple bubble counters and needle valves(I like to get BC NV combos if possible.)Time to start looking!
Got some more red luwidga and rotala macranda yesterday.


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## jrman83

Shouldn't be too hard to do yourself. Send OP a PM or check his thread. Pieces may be listed.


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## coralbandit

How about one these units?
Tri Regulator Bubble Counter 3way Brass CO2 Splitter Aquarium Live Plants | eBay
or this one;
6 Way Brass CO2 Splitter  bubble Counter Check Valve | eBay
Seems like if you add up BC(with built in check valves)and needle valves and then a manifold that these may be worth it if they're not crap!


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## jrman83

I would caution against stuff found on ebay. If it didn't have the Ideal (brand name) or the Fabco NV-55 needle valves, I wouldn't touch them. You may be able to swap out the needle valves and use the rest of it.


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## jccaclimber2

Agreed, cheap needle valves suck. If they are all that fits your bugdet, go for it. Just be aware you're trading money now for a lot of time fiddling with them later. I have one cheap needle valve that came with a Milwaukee regulator. I don't regret its purchase because it fit my budget at the time and got me more in to that aspect of the hobby. That said, my next one will be an Ideal or similar.


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## coralbandit

Well then I guess I'll purchase from green leaf or somewhere with fabco or ideal.
Seemed like too good of a deal!
Nothing fits my budget,but I've been in the game for 30+ years and buying "less" only adds up to more crap in the attick!I've learned with many other things to go for quality even if it cost more .The savings is in the long run.


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## jrman83

Have you talked to OP about modifying what you have to accommodate a second manifold? That would be the best option and you can upgrade what you currently have to a better needle valve in the process.


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## coralbandit

I read OP's thread again just last night.He does have a very detailed parts list!I even saw a manifold he made for a guys fishroom on the other site.It was unbelievable!I searched fabco last night after your post and found stuff,then went to greenleaf.This won't be as simple as I planned(hardest part getting good parts) but I'm already enjoying the benefit of co2 and think if I could properly inject it(enough volume for my big tank) that my tank would be fantastic.
I appreciate all you guys help.


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## jccaclimber2

Not the cheapest item, but I've heard the Ideal valve is really good. I want to say it was in the $70 range to get the correct needle valve from Ideal with the vernier handle. You need to order it directly though. You may just be able to plumb in a T rather than getting a full manifold.


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## jrman83

I like greenleaf's stuff. They seem to add stuff to their inventory that the community wants. They will add manifolds to their regulators if you ask them to and where else can you get either a NV-55 or ideal needle valve with your manifold.


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## coralbandit

If I added some media to my reactors would it help to diffuse the co2?Somewhere in mind I keep seeing a picture of a reactor with bio balls in it.I'm not sure full bio balls will fit in my reactors as they are small,but if I cut some up or could fit them would it help with micro bubbles.The bubbles don't bother me at all(OP said to be prepared for them I believe),but more thinking it is just wasted if I see it?My plants are excellent and my dosing seems to be working great as I dosed 3x this week and had lower nitrates than usaull before me wc!


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## jrman83

Some use bio balls in homemade reactors and some companies actually use them, like AquaMedic does. When water is forced into the reactor the balls bounce around and help break up the large bubbles as the enter the chamber. Anything that will bounce around and stir the water should work.

I don't know what type of reactor you have.


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## coralbandit

Two of these each with their own hagen 50 powerhead;The 500 model(smaller one)
sera GmbH - Products - sera flore CO2 active reactor 500 / 1000
AOL Search


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## jrman83

Are you not getting good enough dissolving into your water? You may be able to but sponge material in there, as long as it didn't impeded the flow too much to affect the operation. I have two fairly large reactors on two of my tanks made by aquairumplants.com and they use a sponge in the chamber to help break it up.


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## coralbandit

It really does take alot of co2 to get to proper level in this tank.By the end of the day the reactors due let some pass through(in microbubbles) .Really pushing more bubbles in a second than can be counted when running.Seems like early in light cycle not so much a problem as plants are hungry,but later in day always seem to see more bubbles.Again it isn't real bad and doesn't bother me,just would like to be efficient.I like to use sponges(should have thought of that myself LOL).


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## jrman83

I think your CO2 climbs a steep hill anyway with your sump. That sump has to be creating loss.


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## coralbandit

I use a drop checker in the tank.I wonder (but don't see how it would help much) if the pH probe was in tank instead of at the end of my sump.The water goes through every exchange(overflow) before it hits the probe.
I've never seen my drop checker yellow.I cleary recognise the green now,my controller is set to 6.2-6.3 now.I'm almost completely adjusted to very good results,light,co2 and ferts now barring any "modifications" I make.


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## jrman83

How long is your light cycle?  Algae under control?


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## coralbandit

8-9 hours of good lighting.I ramp up and down over 10 hrs.Algae is reasonable but I haven't eliminated BGA completely yet.Erythromycin is on my list if I go to LFS.Hoping that it resolve that issue and then all good!It does take time to "tune things" ,but I'm getting there.
I faught hard on lowering my light cycle just liking to watch the tank ,but all in all it seems real good still and I can live with the lights being out in am if I am home,and going off earlier in evening.I may cut them back a hair more not cause I need to ,but thinking just that I can?


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## jrman83

I was wondering if you were still way up there in hours.


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## coralbandit

OK I have again reduced the time lights are on.Right around 7 hours a day now.I am increasing co2 a little,but have achieved better saturation by installing 2 mix max reactors after the seras.This way any bubbles that make it through the seras get chopped up and absorbed by the water even better.This does seem to be working well and the mix max(insta) reactors were really cheap($11).I am trying to eliminate BBA and have started dosing excell,per conversation in Raymonds thread on BGA with jr.
Started the excell yesterday(my 1 g bottle arrived!) with my usaull 50% waterchange and added 100ml.The instructions say 10ml per 20g.The instructions then say to go to 10ml per 100g every other or every day,but I think I'm supposed to be overdosing to some extent so I added 30ml today.Is this sufficient dosing and what would be signs/symptoms of me possibly adding too much?I got a gallon since the tank is large and the BBA is pretty bad on wood and my overflows.the price was right and shipping(2 day) was free!
Next I'm currious if/when this has been successful(BBA is gone) what should be my regular dosing schedule/ammount,since I think I'll have some left over?Talking about 200 gallons of volume with med/high lighting and the co2.
Thanks!


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## Avraptorhal

Thanks to all of you! You have convinced me I don't want CO2. I have enough problems coping with all of the other variables in a planted tank system. Again many thanks!!!!!


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## coralbandit

Avraptorhal said:


> Thanks to all of you! You have convinced me I don't want CO2. I have enough problems coping with all of the other variables in a planted tank system. Again many thanks!!!!!


I have had algae issues long before I ever even thought of co2.I'm not sure what you got out of this,but my plants are growing 20X faster and healthier than EVER before.
If you want plants(seriously)and have not had the greatest luck I would 110% recommend co2.But to each his own.


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## jrman83

I added the amount the bottle says to add just after a water change for 5-6 days consecutively. After that you should start to see a drastic hit on the BBA. It will start to turn a lighter color and when it does its dead.

From there I would just add what the label says. It should keep BBA away. I have never used it as a carbon source...only to kill some BBA.


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## coralbandit

I'm dosing 30ml every day or every other(says 10ml to 100g) .Only on dose # 4 so far,but added the 100ml on day 1 after water change.I did as every Saturday change water again today.


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## jrman83

I go by caps. 1 capful for every 20g...do that for 5-6 days.


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## coralbandit

Thanks ,I got the gallon so my cap is 10ml and smaller bottles have 5ml cap.So I convert and say I shoul be doing 50-60 ml for 200g.
Thanks big time,I'm was thinking I didn't want to over do it ,but thought I may need to treat quite a bit longer with the amount of BBA I have .


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## coralbandit

Well I think I'm winning the battle,but the war goes on.I removed most of my wood(left 

a few for plecos)and piece by piece picked out individuall pieces of gravel that had BBA 

on them.It really seems to prefer growing on dark surfaces if I noticed anything or can

offer insight.My dosing has increased to a high level at this point.I add aproximately 1/2

ml per gallon daily!Yea I'm using almost 120 ml of excell every day!

The fish all seem fine and slowly some of the BBA is clearing(I really had/have alot!).

I'm also hitting some of the stronger growths with H2O2 everyday which is definately

knocking it out.I can't say I see the end of this treatment near,and hope my 1 gallon

will be enough,but I will probly get another in the future if I need to keep using this

on the regular.I have knocked my lighting down to 7-8 hours and possibly this helps 

also.I think I'll add a couple of my hydors to increase circulation as this too is 

recommended.My plants are growing right out of the water and need weekly/biweekly

clipping.From 1 stem of willow hygro(thanks Kehy) my tank is almost full.My red 

luwidga grows inches per week and reaches the surface in no time.So maybe a picture 

or two in the near future as I am really pleased with all of this.I know many grow 

plants well without,but for me the addition of CO2 has been one of the best additions

to my tanks since going with sumps!


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## jrman83

The BBA hasn't turned like a reddish/brown color? Once that happens it is usually dead and will fall off. I know what you mean on the Red Ludwigia...sometimes wish I didn't have it in my tanks.


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## coralbandit

For the most part it has not changed color!Where only a little of it is on plant leaves

(very little) it has turned red,but where it seems to have grown in with force,it still 

lingers.It may be thinning in those areas?I'm really loaded with some super stupid

questions(thinking of starting a stupid question thread!).The tank is just about a 

jungle even after pulling and clipping a ton last week!Could having so many plants be 

using up the excell and CO2?Would the CO2 and excell have better effects if there were 

less plants?I really can't believe how much excell I add without adverse effects on the 

fish!I didn't just jump up to where I am at once,but have been adding 90-120 ml 

daily for almost a week now!


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## jrman83

Less/more plants shouldn't matter. Your sump may have something to do with reducing the Excel. Not sure though.


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## jccaclimber2

jrman83 said:


> Less/more plants shouldn't matter. Your sump may have something to do with reducing the Excel. Not sure though.


Agreed. Despite all the CO2 plants may use the offgassing is the dominant driver.


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## coralbandit

Thanks both you guys, you are great help.I geuss this is no different than anything else 

fishy and I just need to be patient and persistent.

Here's a picture of the "jungle";


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## jrman83

Wow, you need to trim that thing, lol. Mine has looked like that a few times.


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## coralbandit

I just pulled 1/2 of a 5g bucket of plants out on Weds!And cut some of the hygro even 

today(will probly need to again tomorrow!)The plants are definately growing quickly.

I forgot to mention that although the BBA is slow to die that since starting the first

dose of excell(1/25 ?) I haven't had to clean my front glass even once!So I know it is 

doing something?

It's a jungle in there,still don't think the plants could be using up all the CO2 and 

excell?I know they are supposed to use it up but I'm dosing alot of the excell.

I'm not afraid to push it even further,but I'm not looking to in the book of worlds records

either!120 ml everyday!No carbon,no uv,just CO2,ferts and all the overflows of the 

sump.pH in a.m. is 7.4 and eventually gets to 6.1 during the day.It runs almost 

constantly at like 15+++ BPS!I did manage to get rid of microbubbles by running

2 reactors in series ,so now I have 2 seras that flow into 2 instas!Think I'm going

to make a manifold and try to get even more in quicker!It doesn't need more total,

just more faster I think?I know the sump has alot to do with it,but I'll never give up

my sumps!To many reasons to list!


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## jccaclimber2

I'm going to refrain from posting my 75. It started going downhill regarding trimming around a month ago, and you can't see much of anything now.


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## coralbandit

jccaclimber2 said:


> I'm going to refrain from posting my 75. It started going downhill regarding trimming around a month ago, and you can't see much of anything now.


So my tank is "not so out of control?"

I really don't want just a few plants here or there.I would love a more 

structured appearance,but my tank is overstocked with fish so they all

probly appreciate a little seperation and cover.Everytime I cut the hygro

I just get another "tree" of it growning.I know they're only plants,but 

like fry I get from breeding,if there isn't anything wrong with em I 

really don't want to just kill them, and I got nothing to feed the plants to

like I can with my swordtails(2 lionfish ,morray eel and a mini grouper have

no problem helping me lower the stocking!).I'm due to take fish to LFS soon

so I will bring them some plants also ,they always take whatever I got for 

decent trade(store credit).

So I geuss I'll up the excell tomorrow and watch and see.


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## jrman83

If I let my trimming go for a while sometimes I will just go in and cut everything down to about 2" above the substrate and throw it all out. A month later it is usually back to where it was before the trim. It mostly applies to my Red Ludwigia. I take care of my Bacopa and P. Erectus.


----------



## jccaclimber2

jrman83 said:


> If I let my trimming go for a while sometimes I will just go in and cut everything down to about 2" above the substrate and throw it all out. A month later it is usually back to where it was before the trim. It mostly applies to my Red Ludwigia. I take care of my Bacopa and P. Erectus.


I know the feeling. A friend of mine has a 135 (a taller 125) that we do that on. We like the way the tank looks, so on average any time a stem is cut either the stump or the top does not go back in to the tank. From time to time the stumps that do remain start looking ratty so we level most of the tank and end up with a really nice dense tank a week later.

In my defense after the comment above, I'm putting a rather large tank in my living room so in addition to moving the 75 twice in the past month I've painted two rooms, refinished a lot of wood floor, and braced the house for the new tank. I'm half purposely letting it go as I'm going to need more plants from the 75 for the new tank, and will be tearing the 75 down once this tank is up.


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## jccaclimber2

Another thing worth mentioning is the plant cycle that I advise a lot of people starting a planted tank for the first time to take. A lot of people like the look of slow growing plants, but don't want to buy enough to fill a tank. The solution is to start with a fast growers that fill the tank quickly. Put in the slow growing plant, then as that plant grows trim it less and trim the fast growers more frequently. Eventually you end up with a tank full of your choice combination of plants, don't have to get a bunch of stuff up front, and don't ever have to look at an empty tank. My compost pile appreciates anything that I choose not to replant.


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## jrman83

jccaclimber2 said:


> Another thing worth mentioning is the plant cycle that I advise a lot of people starting a planted tank for the first time to take. A lot of people like the look of slow growing plants, but don't want to buy enough to fill a tank. The solution is to start with a fast growers that fill the tank quickly. Put in the slow growing plant, then as that plant grows trim it less and trim the fast growers more frequently. Eventually you end up with a tank full of your choice combination of plants, don't have to get a bunch of stuff up front, and don't ever have to look at an empty tank. My compost pile appreciates anything that I choose not to replant.


The light is the controlling factor though and it is hard to achieve what you mean with a low light tank. Red Ludwigia is one of the fastest growing stems I own...can grow 3" or so a week. I put a few stems in my low light Blue Diamond Neo tank and the same stems have been in there over a year and have not needed trimming yet in a 20g long. I think they have grown 6" in that time. The don't look all that great, but they are still living.


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## coralbandit

So I upped the excell to 150ml today!And the angel fish and discus both laid eggs!Geuss it is safe to say it is/has not been stressing them too much.Unless this is their last attempt for survival!I don't think so!All fish seem fine.
Kind of feel like pushing it till I see some reaction ,but I'm not looking for trouble,just trying to kill BBA,not fish!
Installed 2 more hydors in middle of tank for more flow/circulation as this is also recommended to cure BBA?


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## coralbandit

So I can't say the excell did alot,but I did have alot of BBA so maybe it helped a little.I pulled almost all my mopani wood as it was covered with it and cleaned(manually) a real lot.Got new "java wood" which is from coffee trees that are no longer productive.I found it in the bird section of a pet store.
So here is todays pic of the 180 redone;

I pulled a ton of plants(red luwidga and willow hygro) so maybe I should sell some?
Eitherway I really like the new look and hope everyone else does too!


----------



## FishFlow

Regarding not wanting to discard the clippings. Just do what all us sane people do, setup another tank for just the clippings! (dur) 

Tank looks great, can't believe I've missed this thread. Must have more pictures. Closer up of sections of the tank. KTKSBYE.


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## coralbandit

FishFlow said:


> Regarding not wanting to discard the clippings. Just do what all us sane people do, setup another tank for just the clippings! (dur)


I have almost 1,000 gallons of tanks!I have plants in everyone of them!
That being said ,I would love to set up "just one more!"


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## coralbandit

So a simple manifold with 4 outlets and each reactor being fed seperately(co2) has gotten the tank to where I want quicker.The reactors are still run in series but with co2 going to each one it seems to saturate better.I would love to build 1 large reactor that can achieve this, but lack(I have searched) a design that I think will work.JC anymore info on yours?1 reactor for 300g with a sump surely would work for me I think?
Obsessed or crazy(I can't tell?)I really would like to push it a little more.Everything is doing great,but that doesn't mean a little "tweaking" can't make it better.If I were to run into problems it is easy enough to always step back to where I am now.


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## jccaclimber2

I'm actually planning to hook the CO2 into the big tank this weekend. I want to decrease the flow through the reactor a bit before I do that though.


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## coralbandit

Well it has been awhile for an update and 1 more stupid question from me?The tank is doing great everything is growing well.So well I am considering a re scape again.
So here is the stupid question;If I lower the amount of plants will they get more co2 or will they just use what is supplied(that was phrased stupid even)?Better asked if I lower plant count but still inject same amount to the 180gallons does this allow for more co2 for the plants in there?Or do I have to raise the amount co2 to get plants more?They don't need it I don't think,but wondered if I drastically lowered amount of plants if there would be a benefit.
I would think that if lowered amount of plants and kept dosing same amount of ferts they "could" get more,but on the co2 I'm not so sure there will be a difference.
Pretty stupid question I know ,but one always wonders I hope?


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## jccaclimber2

You should be adding ferts in a non-limiting manner. CO2 consumption is mostly driven by off-gassing at the surface, not by plant consumption. As such there should be no significant difference to the plants based on the number in the tank.


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## coralbandit

That's sort of what I thought as the co2 is supplied on demand by controller.I EI dose macro micros everyday along with the metricide.


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## jrman83

I don't think you should be lowering your plant count. I think you should add more. Get some low lying carpeting or ones that stay low. Blxya Japonica is a good example. Are you getting tired of the amount of maintenance a high light/CO2/fert tank needs?


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## jccaclimber2

coralbandit said:


> That's sort of what I thought as the co2 is supplied on demand by controller.I EI dose macro micros everyday along with the metricide.


It isn't even that the controller regulates the system (although that is the case as well). My understanding is that plant consumption is minor as far as actual tank consumption goes.


----------



## coralbandit

jrman83 said:


> I don't think you should be lowering your plant count. I think you should add more. Get some low lying carpeting or ones that stay low. Blxya Japonica is a good example. Are you getting tired of the amount of maintenance a high light/CO2/fert tank needs?


No not tired of tank (or work) at all!It really doesn't take any longer to dose ferts than to feed fish.I change water regardless so none of this is any more effort than before plants were growing so well.I'm just looking to rescape and have a little more division between plants and possibly some open space.I would like to bunch plants up a little more by types with a "less scattered" appearence?I think the tank looks great right now but it is a jungle in no time flat with all the tall plants!Low plants would be good.Just haven't seen any around,or really know which ones to get.I'd kind of like some "special"/less common ones,that still look great?


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## jrman83

Do you have any Crypts in your tank? I would recommend some Blyxa. It is actually a stem plant but grow like a small bush. Proprogates very easily and can look incredible. Kind of a grassy looking plant. Staurogyne Repens is another great plant if your lighting is adequate that really looks incredible.
Here is a pic of it in my 125g (plant up front):









It runs nearly the full length of my tank and it has taken close to a year to get it to the point it is. There are about 300 stems and I'm still working my way across.

Here is a pic of Blyxa in one of my old tank shots. It is the low bushy/grassy plants in front.


More:


More Staurogyne when it was in my 75:


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## aquatic-life

Wow! Very nice planted tank! 
Your plants looks so healthy!
I love your fish also very nice


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