# Advanced Cichlid planning



## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I've got a 55gal that will sometimes in the next few months become a planted tank. Mostly Swords I think. And there are 2 types of Cichlids I want to house in the tank: Angels and Flowerhorns. But, I'm not sure if they would get along well with each other or if it might be better to just pick one of them and go with that breeds. I'm also not sure how many of each would be okay together, if they can go together and how the possibility of mating would effect that (that is, should I make sure they are all the same sex or would they be okay while mating as well).

Any info or comments would be appreciated. Thanks


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

If you want a planted tank with swords, forget the flowerhorn. The swords would become lunch. With the angel I would imagine the fry would become lunch but that would make good population control. With plenty of plants some fry will survive.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

amie im in the same boat...55g and all. Except im looking for some bolivian rams to be my center peices of the tank


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Susan, I would no way pass up the flowerhorns for the swords LOL. If they like to munch then I'll have to figure out a different plant for the tank or if worse comes to worse then skip the planting altogether. 

Not too worried about the fry either because once they get old enough they can be moved to a different tank and I'm not really sure how bad angels would be about eating them. They are suppose to be pretty attentive parents and I think they are even the kind that carry their fry in their mouth to protect them from other fish. 

The main questions are: Can the fowerhorns and the angels go in the tank together and, if so, then in what numbers for each and would they be able to be mixed sexes or should I stick to the one sex.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

With a full size flowerhorn and they do grow fairly fast a 55 really isn't big enough. My son in law has one in a 55 and the flowerhorn can barely turn around in the tank. As for mixing angels and flowerhorns I wouldn't. And angels aren't mouth brooders, they lay eggs on leaves of plants on glass and such.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I also need to say that the fish are from different places, where the flowerhorn is an african and is aggressive like africans and angels are from South America. Flowerhorns needs to be fed live fish to keep them in optimal condition. You can suppliment with fresh fish like catfish chunks and such that you would eat. Just don't really want to feed them fish from the ocean.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks for the info Susan-it's nice to have someone to yank me back to reality LOL. Just kidding. But, to play devils advocate a little though I had a few things I wanted to clarify with you: Don't they both get to about 12 inches though? So, if a 55 isn't good for a flowerhorn then why is it okay for an angel? And, I thought a 55 was good for a school of angels-is that wrong? Also, flowerhorn is the same size as an Oscar right-he fits into a 55, so what makes the flowerhorn unable to? I thought they were both south American, well the Flowerhorn parents anyway since they are not thought to be a naturally occurring species. 

Your right with the eggs, angels do lay eggs but I thought they carried the fry in their mouths after birth? Not all the time but I thought they were known to put them in their mouths for safe keeping? 

If I skipped the flowerhorn then what would you suggest for a 55 angel tank? Damn, I hate to miss out on the flowerhorn though. I'll have to just consider it putting them on hold until I get them a bigger place.

What would you suggest for a 55 for angels when it comes to breeding them? Eg, how many should be in there and what sort of behavior should I expect from the parents when it comes to the other fish and the fry? 

Anything else you can thing to add you be appreciated too. 

Sorry, to play the advocate so much and to ask you so many questions but I know that you have lot of knowledge about fish. I've always thought that it's better to know the reasons behind an answer instead of just the answer, that way next time you have a similar question then you might have chance at being able to figure out the answer based on the last reasoning. Sort of like wanting to learn how to fish instead of being given the fish.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Amie said:


> Thanks for the info Susan-it's nice to have someone to yank me back to reality LOL. Just kidding. But, to play devils advocate a little though I had a few things I wanted to clarify with you: Don't they both get to about 12 inches though? So, if a 55 isn't good for a flowerhorn then why is it okay for an angel? And, I thought a 55 was good for a school of angels-is that wrong? Also, flowerhorn is the same size as an Oscar right-he fits into a 55, so what makes the flowerhorn unable to? I thought they were both south American, well the Flowerhorn parents anyway since they are not thought to be a naturally occurring species.
> 
> Your right with the eggs, angels do lay eggs but I thought they carried the fry in their mouths after birth? Not all the time but I thought they were known to put them in their mouths for safe keeping?
> 
> ...


Angels full grown is about 4 inches in body mass not counting fins so can handle a 55 easily. A flower horn and oscar usually max out at 12 inches, even though they can handle a 55 that tank is only 12 inches deep. Think of it this way. You are in a room that is 4 foot long, but only 12 inches wide. Would you feel comfortable in there. I know I wouldn't it would be hard to turn around in it without being flexable.

You can put a school of young angels in a 55, but be prepared to start moving most of them as they start pairing off. A mated pair will terrorize the others to the point of death. No angels do not carry eggs or fry in the mouth. the only time they do that is if they are moving them from one place to another or one strays away from the rest and they will pick it up and put it back. As for other fish in the tank a mated pair will most likely keep the others away from the area of the nest. That could be considered one side or another and if its in the middle of the tank you will see the others cornered up on both ends.

I had a bunch of angels in the 220 and after they started growing what I didn't sell the mated pair killed the others, even another mated pair.

Flowerhorns were bred from African parents. They also require different water parameters for optimal care.

Hope that answers your ?. I'm not to good at wording some things.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

So, how many angels would you suggest for a 55 without having to remove them after they start mating? What about if I was able to get all the same sex so there would be no pairing off? Would that change how many I could have in there, since that would get rid of the 'territorial parents' problem, but that might add a 'rambunctious sexually build' problem. What do you think? I know that gets bad with my live bearers but not sure if it would be the same with egg layers. And it seems to bother my live bearer males more then the females too. So, maybe all female angels? Also, what do you think on plants?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

With angels if you get standard fin ones you could possibly get by with 5 if all the same sex, but most likely that will be hard to do unless you find a breeder that is willing to sex them for you and will cost more as they will be quite a bit larger. A mated pair, I wouldn't do more than 1 pair. You will probably have to get 5 or 6 young ones and when they start pairing off sell or trade the others. As for plants for them, Tall plants are good, mine liked swords and vals, then decorated the tank around those.


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