# 100% Pure Ammonia?



## holly12

Hey there. Want to start a fishless cycle tomorrow. I live in Ontario, Canada and I can't seem to find Pure Ammonia anywhere! Walmart has ammonia but it has surfactant and tetra something in it. It's the closest I could find to pure ammonia. UGH! (Here is the page with the ammonia from Walmart. If you go to the bottom, it has a tab that says "what's in this product?" and you click on that.) Walmart.com: Great Value: Ammonia, 64 Oz: Household Essentials Will this work? Ingredients: The ingredients are water, ammonia, tetrasodium edta (chelating agent), and surfectant (proprietary information). It's a 2.5% ammonia solution..... will the surfectant and tetrasodium edta ruin the tank?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


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## susankat

You can always use a cooked shrimp and let it rot in the tank. It takes a little longer to start but it will and you may have to add another in the middle of the cycle. I have done this, but I made a little bag to put it in out of netting material. Makes it easier to remove.

You might also check hardware stores for ammonia. Shake the bottle if it foams not good to use, if it doesn't foam should be ok. Just make sure it isn't scented.


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## Rohkey

I used Great Value ammonia and it worked fine from what I could tell. I did research on it before using it and saw a few people claiming one of the surfactants were actually beneficial for the aquarium for one reason or another, but was never able to confirm this. Other sites just mentioned it was safe to use and no where did I see people suggesting not to use it or that it was unsafe, although I encourage you to look for yourself by Googling "Great Value ammonia and aquariums" or something along those lines.


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## jrman83

I would have said don't use it, but if someone has used it with no problem and been your guinea pig, I'd use it. You could just do a pretty large water change after the cycle was over to get out most of the surfectant. Do back-to-back 50% water changes and be good to go. Plus, you'll never find 100% ammonia anyway. Most is mixed with water at least.


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## holly12

Back to back water changes as in doing 100% water change in one day? Right before I put fish in?


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## Rohkey

holly12 said:


> Back to back water changes as in doing 100% water change in one day? Right before I put fish in?


Doing back-back water 50% changes isn't exactly the same as doing a 100% change...since 25% of the original water (if the second change gets exactly half of the 'new' water and half of the 'old' water) will remain...but this would go a long way to removing nitrates as well as getting out anything else you don't want in there. Since there are no fish, etc, in the water...changing a large % won't hurt anything as long as the new water is conditioned and such.


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## jrman83

No, a day in between. It wouldn't matter though if you did do it all in one day. Not much bacteria present in the water anyway. If you go this route read up on the right way to do it. You _should_ have an ammonia test kit at a minimum to gauge how much you are dosing daily.


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## ReStart

I just got the bottle I used for three tanks, one 55 one 60 and one 20. It's "Everyday Living" and as I recall, I got it from Lowes. It says on the back "ingredients: water, ammonium hydroxide and surfacant. contains no phosphorus" It worked fine for me and I did do some big wc's prior to fish introduction. I don't remember just how much but I never do less than 25% and often 50% as a matter of habit.

Part of my job with Homeland Security involves monitering the presence and flow of toxic inhalation hazard (TIH) chemicals in high threat urban areas. I see railcars with 90 tons of PURE ammonia moving all over. It is actually called "anhydrous ammonia" because it has no water and is only pure ammonia. 100% pure ammonia is a VERY dangerous substance. It will kill you in a hurry, so we really don't want pure ammonia for our tanks ;-).


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## holly12

Oh. Oops... I bought pure ammonia from Home Hardware today and started dosing my tank with it. (2 teaspoons per gallon). It's by "Old Country". The lady said it was 100% ammonia - no additives, soaps, phosphates, etc...

I'll do a 50% water change before adding anyone. I plan on taking out the amount of water that the 10g holds and putting all the water from the 10g into the 20g when I move everyone, so they get their old established water with them in the new tank. I know there's not much bacteria in the water - it's all in the gravel and filter - but I figured any little bit will help.


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## Rohkey

holly12 said:


> Oh. Oops... I bought pure ammonia from Home Hardware today and started dosing my tank with it. (2 teaspoons per gallon). It's by "Old Country". The lady said it was 100% ammonia - no additives, soaps, phosphates, etc...
> 
> I'll do a 50% water change before adding anyone. I plan on taking out the amount of water that the 10g holds and putting all the water from the 10g into the 20g when I move everyone, so they get their old established water with them in the new tank. I know there's not much bacteria in the water - it's all in the gravel and filter - but I figured any little bit will help.


100% ammonia is still usually diluted as ReStart mentioned (might be illegal to sell actual 100% ammonia). It's just called 100% because it doesn't have anything else.

Anyways you added way too much ammonia, holy cow. With my 30G I added 5 mL (one teaspoon for the entire tank, not per gallon) and that put it at 8 ppm, most people like to have it at around 2-4 ppm for the cycle from what I've seen. If I would have dosed 2 teaspoons per gallon I would have ended up with ammonia levels at the 400-500 ppm mark...nothing's gonna survive that.


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## holly12

SORRY!!! MY BAD! I meant 2 teaspoons *per 10 gallons*, lol! So it was only 2 teaspoons!! I just read the level of ammonia (after a 2 hour wait) and it was at about 4 ppm which is bang on.... which is odd for me because I usually have bad luck with this kind of thing, lol.

So... I'll test again in 2 hours just to be sure that reading is correct. Then, I'm supposed to wait 72 hours and test again. If the levels have dropped, I have to re-dose to get back to 4ppm (*but do I do the full 2 tsp dose or do I drop it to 1 tsp?* not sure how to keep it at 4ppm.... if it takes the full dose or just half a dose...) Then I start to check for Nitrites because the ammonia level has begun to drop and reduce ammonia dosing to every other day at half of what I was doing, (so every other day at 1 tsp). Once I start to get Nitrate readings, (which I always have b/c of my water source), things are moving along nicely I presume. Then, once I can do a 2 tsp dose of ammonia and have it read 0 and Nitrites read 0 within 24 hours of the dosing, I'm done, (I think, lol). So, this could go a lot quicker than I thought!!) This is following RTBob's "fishless Cycle" post. Have I missed anything?


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## jrman83

Really, only that high? Concentration of ammonia must be pretty low for that brand. I used only 4 teaspoons for a 125g tank.

Remember it is a daily dose. Usually once nitrites show, you reduce by half and dose every other day.


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## Rohkey

holly12 said:


> SORRY!!! MY BAD! I meant 2 teaspoons *per 10 gallons*, lol! So it was only 2 teaspoons!! I just read the level of ammonia (after a 2 hour wait) and it was at about 4 ppm which is bang on.... which is odd for me because I usually have bad luck with this kind of thing, lol.
> 
> So... I'll test again in 2 hours just to be sure that reading is correct. Then, I'm supposed to wait 72 hours and test again. If the levels have dropped, I have to re-dose to get back to 4ppm (*but do I do the full 2 tsp dose or do I drop it to 1 tsp?* not sure how to keep it at 4ppm.... if it takes the full dose or just half a dose...) Then I start to check for Nitrites because the ammonia level has begun to drop and reduce ammonia dosing to every other day at half of what I was doing, (so every other day at 1 tsp). Once I start to get Nitrate readings, (which I always have b/c of my water source), things are moving along nicely I presume. Then, once I can do a 2 tsp dose of ammonia and have it read 0 and Nitrites read 0 within 24 hours of the dosing, I'm done, (I think, lol). So, this could go a lot quicker than I thought!!) This is following RTBob's "fishless Cycle" post. Have I missed anything?


Oh...relief. I was about to say, you just turned your aquarium water into a liquid best used for cleaning.

Yeah, what jrman said. I was always slightly confused about this too because it takes over a week for the ammonia-eating bacteria to colonize yet most sites say to keep adding ammonia. Where is all the ammonia going I wondered..thinking back with my tank I believe I dosed once and then didn't dose again until the 4th or 5th day when I saw a decrease in the ammonia levels (this is why accurate tests are so important with these fishless cycles). Or maybe I dosed every day and that's why the levels were so high...now I forget, haha. Anyways, keep an eye on the ammonia level and try to keep it where it is now (so only add some if the level decreases obviously) and try jacking up the temp to the high 80s to speed up the process.


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## holly12

Thanks guys! Temp is at 83 and slowly rising, lol. I'm sorry to keep pestering you guys with these questions, but I've got 3 more for you: (I've never done this so bear with me, lol). 

I checked at 10pm and the Ammonia was at about 3.5-4ppm. I will check it every day at about 6 pm from now on (until I find Nitrites), and keep it at around the 3.5-4ppm level. (I'm confused as to why RTBob said to do nothing and wait for 3 days, then continue dosing daily until Nitrites are present..... _if my ammonia is falling daily from the start, I have to keep dosing daily from the beginning and can't do nothing for 3 days..._) *Or, did he mean just keep the level at 3-5ppm from the very beginning UNTIL you see Nitrites forming, causing the ammonia to drop? (Meaning dose daily if you have to, and don't if you don't need to.) Then cut the dose in half and not as often.*

Second question: Would it be right to start checking for Nitrites in about a week? (I'm just wondering because if my ammonia keeps going down on it's own from the start, then how will I know when it's the Nitrites doing it? Lol). I figured give it a week or so, keeping the ammonia at this level and then start checking for Nitrites.

Third question: Once Nitrites are present, do I keep half dosing every other day or so, until I can half dose with the Ammonia and Nitrites showing at 0 after 24 hours? With trace Nitrates of course.

I know I know, lots of confusing questions, lol. But I've really really never cycled with ammonia and really want to make sure I do everything exactly right as I don't want to screw this tank up and have to start from scratch!


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## jrman83

I dosed everyday from day 1. Nitrites showed in about 7-9 days. Waiting a week is good. 3rd ? - what I did. Unfortunately, or maybe luckily, every tank is different and it may be necessary to change things a little once you start having multpile readings.

Don't forget your other tank. A couple of handfuls of gravel in a nylon bag thrown into the new tank, any decor, used media from your filter all will help this tank cycle. Use everything you can from your established tank and you could be looking at less than 2wks.


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## holly12

Thanks jrman. I tested my water today (with strips and liquid tests) and it came back as about 4-5ppm. I'm just wondering if I re-dose with 2 teaspoons if that will shoot the ammonia way up past the recommended 3-5ppm. (I was thinking of monitoring it for the next 2 or 3 days and then re-dosing if I see it drop). I would check for Nitrites if I noticed a drop too. Then I would dose at 1 tsp every other day until I'm able to do that and have both Ammonia and Nitrites come back as 0. (Since I have high nitrates naturally, they are already present).

I would love to put gravel in the new tank from the old, but I've got Hydra in the old tank and don't want to risk getting it in the new tank. Although..... since cycling takes a few weeks I guess they would starve since it's a fishless cycle right?


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## Rohkey

Not only would they starve but I assume the combination of high temperature and very high ammonia levels would kill them, but don't quote me on that.


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## holly12

Sweet! 

Now I'm looking into doing a hydrogen peroxide dip for the plants before moving them. (It's less harsh than bleach and salt), and breaks down to water and oxygen. Although if too much leaches from the plants into the tank it could kill the shrimp and harm the good bacteria in the filter.

My plan is to dip and swish the plants (NOT the roots) in hydrogen peroxide - which comes in a 3% solution - for about 2 minutes. Then I'm going to rinse them under clear running water, then soak them in a bucket of clear water with conditioner in it for about an hour. I will then rinse them under running water again. (Possibly doing another 1 hour soak in a new bucket of clear water with conditioner followed by another rinse under running water). I'm reeeeeally hoping that this will get any peroxide off of the plants - and I'm hoping that any they have absorbed will be leached into the buckets and not the tank. (The moss balls will really have to be rinsed and squeezed as they are like sponges).

Gonna have to be careful with the Java Fern. It's on a lava rock and if that soaks up any peroxide I'm screwed, lol.

I've got to move everyone in fast after they cycle so the bacteria doesn't die, so it's all got to be done the same day or a day after cycling is done. (Fingers crossed!)

I've got $50-$70 in plants and don't want to just scrap them and start over.


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## jrman83

I think your outthinking this...just dose and stop worryong so much about everything. Worse case you have to do a water change...


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## holly12

Lol, yep, probably. Ok.... I'll just go with it.

Would you recommend leaving the lights on while cycling to build up some algae for the Otos, snails and RCS?

Will algae also create phytoplankton in the water for my Flower shrimp? (I'm afraid that moving her to a new tank will starve her if there's no food in the water. I do supplementary feedings with crushed flakes and phytoplankton), but was hoping that algae will help grow some in the water column. If not, I guess I could start adding phytoplankton to the water before the cycle finishes, so it builds up in the water.


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## ReStart

I ran my lights about 8 hours each day but none of my fishless cycled tanks are planted. I did not get algae in any of them during the cycle. I did later get that da## brown algae (whatever it is) in my Cichlid tank after they were intoduced. 

I was running the lights about 14 hours per day because I wanted some algae in that tank for the Cichlids to munch on. It didn't really work out and I now trying to get rid of the brown stuff. I am cutting way back on food, no light and 50% wc at least once per week.

Short answer to your question, yes, I would run lights on the same timer you use or plan to use once the tank is finished cycle. Get things accustomed to what the conditions are going to be. 

I know nothing about the shrimp so others will chime in I'm sure.

Edit to add, And you better post a picture of this 20g! I feel like it is somehow part of my collection! Just kidding but you know what I mean.


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## holly12

I posted a pic yesterday: Aquarium Gallery - New 20 Gallon (In Fishless Cycle Mode), but have since changed the castle to the left to a newer looking one. (My husband really likes the old 'ruins' looking ones so I had to keep the one on the right in, lol. I also put a tiny one in so hopefully the shrimp will breed in it. (and the water is still quite cloudy). I will for sure post pics when it's totally cycled, stocked and planted!


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## ReStart

holly12 said:


> I posted a pic yesterday, but have since changed on of the castles to a different one, (and the water is still quite cloudy). I will for sure post pics when it's totally cycled, stocked and planted!


Cool looking tank. I've seen just a few of the castle and Greek themes that I like but I like yours. If it were mine, I'd get a piece of glass cut to exact size and spray paint a custom background. I did one for my 10g and just painted the back of my 60g. 

Just thinking out loud here, sort of, I might do one that sort of replicated the look as if the whole castle/building thing somehow got submerged in crystal clear water. Sort of a light shimmery at the top moving darker near the bottom. Of course, the plants need to be considered.

I failed to consider the plants on my 10g background and now that I think about it, I may redo it. I am now thinking how I might get "sun rays" into the motif.


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## holly12

Thanks for the compliments! (The fake plants will be going once the fishless cycle is done, lol).

The custom background is a really cool idea! At first we thought we were going to do another "lake bottom" theme, so went with that kind of background. Then we ended up changing it. My Mom is great at drawing...... I could get her to do something! Thanks for the idea!!


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## rtbob

The plan here is to maintain the ammonia levels at the level needed to feed the colonizing bacteria with out rasing levels to high. In a freshly set up system (no bio help what so ever) it is pretty much useless to test the ammonia for around 72 hours after the baseline has been accurately recorded. It will take this long for the bacteria to start forming.

You should have at this time a baseline reading for your tap water and a baseline reading for the tank water. You should also have recorded the initial dose of ammonia required to achieve the desired range (3-5ppm) Using this info you should be able to calculate the amount of ammonia needed to maintain this level.

Example: Baseline ammonia level of tank water was zero. After dosing one tsp for every 10 gallons your new levels were 2 ppm. Not quite there. You add another tsp per gallon and retest. Levels are now 4ppm. Perfect. It took two tsp to achieve the desired level. Initial reading was zero end reading was 4 and dosage was 2 tsp. Divide dosage (2) by change in ammonia level (4)=0.5 tsp. This gives us the dosage required to change the amonia level by 1ppm, 1/2 a teaspoon.

In a case where the intial dose of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons was enough to reach the desired level you divide 1 by 4 = 0.25 or 1/4 tsp per gallon would adjust the level by 1ppm.

Maintain the ammonia level dosing your calculated amount of ammonia as needed. As the concentration of ammonia varies by product the initial tank dosage is the best way I know of to account for this. 

I couldn't just say dose "X" amount because with some products this would be way to much and with others not enough.

Hope this clears things up a bit.


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## holly12

Thanks. Since I got to about 4ppm at 2 tsp then I'll do 1/4 tsp to keep it at 4ppm once it starts to drop. 

I'm going to be moving my fish over as soon as the cycle is done, but the snails, frogs and shrimp have to wait a few weeks to get a good amount of algae growing for them to eat..... how long will it take for the newly cycled tank bacteria to die? (I'm hoping that by adding 1 guppy, 2 Cardinals and 4 dwarf rasboras, it will keep it living and strong enough that I will be able to add 3 Otos, 3 snails, 20 RCS and a bamboo shrimp about 2-3 weeks after the cycle.) Should I maybe get 1 or 2 more guppies to keep the bacteria alive?

The shrimp and snails have a tiny bio-load so I don't think they will make much of a difference in the bio-load when I do add them. At least they didn't when I added them to my 10g. The params' stayed the same when I added them).


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## jrman83

lol, at all the testing you must do. I tested the first day for ammonia to get me to 4ppm and that was it. After one week I started testing for nitrites and kept testing until I saw them. I didn't test for ammonia again until nitrites started going away. Sounds like you're testing 2-4 times a day. Not needed, IMO. There is nothing to screw up as long as you're putting the same amount everyday.


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## holly12

I'm only testing once a day. And that's because I haven't dosed since day 1. Once I reached 4ppm on day 1, I stopped dosing. I've stayed at 4ppm (without further dosing) and it's almost day 3. I am testing once a day to make sure I'm staying at 4ppm. (I'm assuming if I dose every day, I'll go waaay above 4ppm, so that's why I haven't re-dosed yet). On day 4 I will start re-dosing because that's what rtbob's article said to do. (And by then I'm assuming my levels will be starting to drop). And then away I go, lol. 



Aquarium Gallery - New 20 Gallon with Different Castle (Still Cycling Fishless) Updated picture. I took the crumbly old castle from the left out and put in a newer looking one. My husband wouldn't let me take out the old crumbly one on the right. He said it looks like old ruins and then the town started to re-build, or it looks like a really old part of the town, lol. My Mom is amazing at drawing (seriously, if I could draw like her, I'd be selling and making money, lol), and I'm going to cut a piece of Bristol board to the size of the tank and have her draw a castle scene, (maybe something from Lord of the Rings), and then have her laminate it at work. Custom background!


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## holly12

Water params today:

Ammonia: 4ppm
Nitrites: approx .2ppm
Nitrates: 20 ppm (already present in tap water and being reduced by Nitrazorb - direct tap water is about 75-80ppm)

Since every day before today the Ammonia was between 4-5ppm, and today it was at 4ppm, I think I will have to start dosing it again tomorrow. (By then it will have fallen under 4 and 4 is where it needs to stay.)

Finally got liquid tests! Woot! (I compared them with the strips and they are fairly accurate.)


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