# UPDATED API Test Results for 10 AND 60 Gallon...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Okay. Just finished running the API freshwater master tests on both the 10 and 60 gallons, and I'd like to report on them per my promise to both JR and Zero...

These tests come on the heels of a water change just done on the 60 gallon -- an approximate 20 or so percent this past Monday -- and, after subsequently getting what I perceived as alarming results on the 10 gallon just now, I have performed a 50% change on that tank, dosing of course with Prime prior to the fresh water going in...

Here is what I found:

*60 Gallon Results*_ (tank contains one Black Moor goldfish)*:**

AMMONIA: 0.25* (definitely jumped a bit from the last reading -- but I don't know if this is from the Moor excreting more waste, which is clearly visible, or from the tank just naturally cycling and the ammonia level beginning to spike)

*NITRITE: 0

NITRATE: 0

10 Gallon Results* (tank contains three fancy goldfish; two very small varities and a somewhat larger Red Cap Oranda)*:**

AMMONIA: 0.50

NITRITE: VERY high and VERY purple in color -- so it's on the high end of the range based on the color chart; the purple was almost alarming in shade, and I couldn't even get a clear reading on where it fell number wise...

NITRATE: 5.0-10 ppm*_

Based on the results of the 10 gallon, in particular, I did an immediate 50% water change on that tank -- but how do these numbers look now some two or so weeks into the cycle (the 60 gallon)? Was it good, or okay, that I did the immediate water change on the 10? Does the 60 need another change based on the ammonia reading? As I stated, I just did a 20% or so on this tank this past Monday...

*c/p*


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You need to keep all these posts together, most people don't like hunting down your other posts on the same subject.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Susan,

Can we then close out the other threads prior to this one, and I will keep this current one as the thread I add to?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

No, I won't close the threads, just don't keep making new ones on the same subject.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> No, I won't close the threads, just don't keep making new ones on the same subject.


But why not? Who honestly is going to care except for me? What is the big deal to just close those other ones down, and we can start from scratch in this one?

That's fine, though -- I'll just add to this thread as the tank's updates are refreshed.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

dont do a water change till the ammonia is at 1ppm on the 60, test every day for it.

test the water in the 10 now and see what the readings are, you may need to do another water change to get the readings to the safe level.

personally id move one of the little fish into the 60.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> dont do a water change till the ammonia is at 1ppm on the 60, test every day for it.


I did a 10% or so change on the 60 already (yesterday) just to perhaps get some of that ammonia down -- was that alright? 



> test the water in the 10 now and see what the readings are, you may need to do another water change to get the readings to the safe level.


I didn't do a reading since the 50% change...



> personally id move one of the little fish into the 60.


And so it seems that's the concensus...

Would this drastically reduce the bio load of the 10?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

*UPDATE:*

My wife and I just transferred one of the small fancy goldies from the 10 to the 60 gallon -- all seems to be doing well, and he's swimming about the larger tank, scouring for food in the gravel and playing in the bubble walls...

Here's the bizarre thing: Believe it or not, the once docile Black Moor has shown slightly aggressive, territorial behavior towards this small new tankmate -- she has been twitching and swimming a bit erratically since he came in the tank, and has gone over to him a couple of times already and ever-so-slightly nudged him as if to establish territory and superiority...unless I am interpretting the behavior incorrectly.

So now, there may be a behavior incompatability problem in THIS newly setup tank...

At any rate, here's the situation: Two fish reside in the 10 gallon as of now, and two in the 60 -- do any more need to come out of the 10?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If nitrite or ammonia get to 2ppm or higher you need to do a 50% water change (minimum) and do again the next day if necessary until it is down below 1ppm.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

take the other little one one and put in the 60, any agression will be spread out more.

Originally Posted by zero 
dont do a water change till the ammonia is at 1ppm on the 60, test every day for it. 

I did a 10% or so change on the 60 already (yesterday) just to perhaps get some of that ammonia down -- was that alright? 

no! you need to test every day and when the ammonia gets to 1ppm then do a water change. your never guna build up bacteria of you keep the ammonia down all the time, it will take forever!

Quote:
test the water in the 10 now and see what the readings are, you may need to do another water change to get the readings to the safe level. 

I didn't do a reading since the 50% change... 

well you need to test after youve done the change! in the 10 you need to be testing everyday too and keeping the readings at a safe level even if that means 2 water changes a day. id get the other gold fish out and in the 60.


Quote:
personally id move one of the little fish into the 60. 

And so it seems that's the concensus...

Would this drastically reduce the bio load of the 10

not sure about drastically but it would def help keep the readings down.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> If nitrite or ammonia get to 2ppm or higher you need to do a 50% water change (minimum) and do again the next day if necessary until it is down below 1ppm.


On either tank?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> take the other little one one and put in the 60, any agression will be spread out more.


Are you sure this is logical? Then that would leave the Oranda all by himself in the 10...I know this is an aggressive fish who initially exhibited the bullying tendencies, but leaving him alone in that tank is okay?



> no! you need to test every day and when the ammonia gets to 1ppm then do a water change. your never guna build up bacteria of you keep the ammonia down all the time, it will take forever!


This is a bit confusing and against the grain, so to speak, compared to what I've been told in the past -- I was under the assumption that ammonia of ANY kind, even during a cycle, is stressful for the inhabitants and must be lowered immediately.

So, your suggestion is to change the water when the ammonia reads 1ppm? Otherwise, LEAVE THE WATER IN THE 60 ALONE COMPLETELY?



> well you need to test after youve done the change! in the 10 you need to be testing everyday too and keeping the readings at a safe level even if that means 2 water changes a day. id get the other gold fish out and in the 60.


I will try and step up my testing -- you mean I should move the other small goldfish and put him in the 60 gallon as well?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

*UPDATE:*

Okay. Ran API tests on both tanks this afternoon; here were the results:

*60-Gallon Test Results:

Ammonia: No higher than 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

10-Gallon Test Results:

Ammonia: No higher than 0.25ppm
Nitrite: STILL VERY high and VERY dark purple in color; maybe even off the chart's range
Nitrate: Somewhere between 5.0 and 10ppm*

I did an immediate 50-60% water change on the 10-gallon following these readings, with a deep gravel vacuuming, and the water in that tank looks absolutely pristine and crystal-clear (not that this would mean anything when it comes to ammonia and such, but it just seems like the small Aqueon HOB is doing a commendable job keeping this tank clean). One of the small goldies has been moved from the 10 to the 60-gallon, and the two now in the 10 seem to be doing fine, as are the two in the 60...

Now, with regard to the 60-gallon -- the test result numbers don't seem to have moved from the last time I tested, and ammonia seems to be hovering around that "0.25ppm" mark...does this tank need an immediate water change or not? Should I just wait until the ammonia reaches 1.0ppm? Nitrite and nitrate continue to hover at 0ppm -- is this still normal?

Is it possible that the 10-gallon's ammonia went down a bit from the last time due to that fish being removed? Could there have been such an immediate reaction? Why is the nitrite so high in that tank (reading VERY purple in color)? And is the nitrate reading of "5.0-10ppm" normal at this point or dangerous for the fish? Is this all because things are spiking due to the cycle?

*c/p*


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

People use different marks for when to do a water change during a cycle. Some say .5ppm, some say 1ppm. This goes for ammonia and nitrites. Your water change schedule is obviously not set yet because the tanks have not cycled....that is to say that what you do now may not correspond to what you do after the cycle.

If either tank hits 1ppm on ammonia or nitrites I would do a water change and would not do one if it were lower. To some extent, you need to let the bacteria grow. Water changes slow the cycle, but spare your fish. Keeping ammonia and nitrites at fairly low levels usually accomplish both.

Your high nitrites in the 10g is just a representation of how much ammonia it has been processing. The by-product of this process is nitrites. So if your nitrites are high, generally speaking your ammonia was probably high at one point. The fact that ammonia goes down shows that your tank is progressing normally. Next, you'll see nitrites start to drop very fast and nitrates will spike. 

After all is said and done for the cycle, you and your fish will be better off doing at least a 50% water change or doing as I have said in your other threads and test for nitrates and let the result tell you how much needs to be changed.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> 1, Are you sure this is logical? Then that would leave the Oranda all by himself in the 10...I know this is an aggressive fish who initially exhibited the bullying tendencies, but leaving him alone in that tank is okay?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i second what jrman said. and in respose to your points:

1, yes its fine to leave him by himself im sure he wont mind. plus it will ease the bioload on the 10 and up the laod on the 60.

2, yes ammonia is stressfull to fish but in its non tocix form not so much. and yes leave the water alone till it gets to 1ppm then do a change.


3, yes move the other small fish to the 60 and do another water change in the 10 to get the nitrites down.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> 1, Now, with regard to the 60-gallon -- the test result numbers don't seem to have moved from the last time I tested, and ammonia seems to be hovering around that "0.25ppm" mark...does this tank need an immediate water change or not? Should I just wait until the ammonia reaches 1.0ppm? Nitrite and nitrate continue to hover at 0ppm -- is this still normal?
> 
> 2, And is the nitrate reading of "5.0-10ppm" normal at this point or dangerous for the fish? Is this all because things are spiking due to the cycle?



1, they dont seem to be moving coz u keep doing water changes when its not needed, it will take for ever at the rate your going! that why i say add the other two fish and wait till the ammonia is at 1ppm.

2, yes thats notmal and fine, you want to keep it below 20ppm once youve finished cycling but right now you need to sort the dangerously high nitirtes out.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

As always, JR, thank you for the response and for your time in responding (Zero as well, which I will get to)...



jrman83 said:


> People use different marks for when to do a water change during a cycle. Some say .5ppm, some say 1ppm. This goes for ammonia and nitrites. Your water change schedule is obviously not set yet because the tanks have not cycled....that is to say that what you do now may not correspond to what you do after the cycle.


I understand completely. 



> If either tank hits 1ppm on ammonia or nitrites I would do a water change and would not do one if it were lower. To some extent, you need to let the bacteria grow. Water changes slow the cycle, but spare your fish. Keeping ammonia and nitrites at fairly low levels usually accomplish both.


I have been doing regular, more-than-once-a-week changes on the 10-gallon out of sheer fear of its toxicity (stocking goldfish, slightly overstocking, etc.) -- should I also wait until ammonia reads 1ppm on this tank to do a change? The nitrite readings -- which were through the roof in the "dark purple" area of the color chart -- concerned and alarmed me very much...should I continue waiting until ammonia reaches 1ppm on this tank?



> Your high nitrites in the 10g is just a representation of how much ammonia it has been processing. The by-product of this process is nitrites. So if your nitrites are high, generally speaking your ammonia was probably high at one point. The fact that ammonia goes down shows that your tank is progressing normally. Next, you'll see nitrites start to drop very fast and nitrates will spike.


Okay... 



> After all is said and done for the cycle, you and your fish will be better off doing at least a 50% water change or doing as I have said in your other threads and test for nitrates and let the result tell you how much needs to be changed.


Do you mean AFTER the cycle is complete, begin a 50% a week change schedule?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> i second what jrman said. and in respose to your points:
> 
> 1, yes its fine to leave him by himself im sure he wont mind. plus it will ease the bioload on the 10 and up the laod on the 60.


Thanks, as always, Zero...



> 2, yes ammonia is stressfull to fish but in its non tocix form not so much. and yes leave the water alone till it gets to 1ppm then do a change.


On BOTH tanks -- regardless of the fact that NITRITE in the 10-gallon has been ridiculously and dangerously high? 



> 3, yes move the other small fish to the 60 and do another water change in the 10 to get the nitrites down.


Now I'm confused again...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> 1, they dont seem to be moving coz u keep doing water changes when its not needed


I seriously don't think this is why the numbers don't seem to be moving from test to test; isn't it normal for a cycle to sometimes take months depending on the tank?



> it will take for ever at the rate your going! that why i say add the other two fish and wait till the ammonia is at 1ppm.


For heaven's sake, all I keep hearing about is "water changes! Water changes! It can only do your fish good no matter what is going on in there!" and so all I keep thinking is I have to get fresh water into both those tanks...

*Are you saying to completely ease off the water changes -- EVEN THE SCHEDULED ONCE-A-WEEK ROUTINE I was told to follow even during the cycling -- until ammonia reaches 1ppm on BOTH tanks?*



> 2, yes thats notmal and fine, you want to keep it below 20ppm once youve finished cycling but right now you need to sort the dangerously high nitirtes out.


So my NITRATES were normal...on both tanks? I'm STILL getting 0ppm readings on the 60-gallon...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The 1ppm mark is for ammonia OR nitrites. At the level you are at I'd be doing 50% everyday until it got down to readable levels. And yes, at the very least 50% after your cycle is complete. Possibly higher if your nitrate readings dictate it.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> The 1ppm mark is for ammonia OR nitrites. At the level you are at I'd be doing 50% everyday until it got down to readable levels. And yes, at the very least 50% after your cycle is complete. Possibly higher if your nitrate readings dictate it.


Wait a minute -- are you talking about on the 10-GALLON? The 60-gallon has been coming back with 0 readings since I began testing -- you are saying to leave the 60-gallon alone until the AMMONIA jumps to 1ppm, correct?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Wait a minute -- are you talking about on the 10-GALLON? The 60-gallon has been coming back with 0 readings since I began testing -- you are saying to leave the 60-gallon alone until the AMMONIA jumps to 1ppm, correct?


Yes. Or at least I am saying that you _could_ wait and not do a water change. With your low levels of ammonia during the cycle you may never see nitrites - just a fyi. Ammonia may climb with the addition of the second fish.

The 1ppm threshold is for both of your tanks and it is for ammonia OR nitrites, not just ammonia. Both are toxic, both can kill your fish.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

right im gettting all confused now! so heres what you should do in simple steps;

1, move the small fish from the 10 to the 60 and leave the bully alone in the 10.
2, post what ppm the nitrite reading is on the 10.
3, do 50% water changes in the 10 untill you get the nitirte down to below 1ppm. so test, make a note of the number, do the water change, then the next day repete.
4,dont touch the 60 untill the ammonia gets to above 1ppm. test every day. with 3 fish in there it should speed things up a bit.
5, keep testing and doing water changes in the 60 when needed till you start seeing no ammonia and some nitrites, then wait till the nitrite gets to over 1ppm then do a water change. keep doing this untill there is 0 ammonia and nitrite and 20ppm lets say nitrate. 
6,then now the cycle has finished do a weekly water change of 50% with massive gravel vaccuming. 
6, keep an eye on the water prams.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you, Zero...

I, too, was getting a bit cuckoo from all this...

Let me run updated API tests on both aquariums and report back...


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