# Help me plan my next tank.



## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

So I am planning on getting either a 30 or 55 gallon tank over the summer and I am in need of help figuring out what exactly to put in it or even how to set the whole thing up (filters, lights, gravel/sand). Heres a little info about what I have now, I currently have a 10 gallon with a Kissing Gouramis and a Fantail Goldfish along with two neon tetras, I wasnt expecting the Gourami to go well with the Goldfish after the first one bullied really badly but they seem to like eachother and actually stay pretty close together as they swim. 
Now on to the new tank, as I said above it will either be a 30 or 55 gallon, I like the colorful fish and Id like alot so maybe some smaller ones.
Any suggestions?
Andy


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Gourami and goldfish shouldnt be kept together as one is tropical and the other is cold water. The neons would like a larger group as they are schooling fish. THere is a big difference in swimming room between 30 and 55 so once you know for sure what you are getting it would be easier to help you figure out what to put in it but i def. reccomend deciding if you are going tropical or cold water first


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I think id like to go tropical and keep the goldfish in the existing tank, What I get depends on what my Grandpa has in his shop, my aunt and uncle used to breed for our LFS and their moving and gave my grandpa all the tanks to sell


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

What about planning for a 30 and upping the numbers a little if I end up with a 55?


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

any ideas at all? what about lights/filters


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## fishman81 (Jan 12, 2011)

windySI said:


> any ideas at all? what about lights/filters


aqueon makes some nice cheaper but goo dlights u can buy at petsmart. i bought a 48" one for my 75 gallon which would also fit a 55 well for under $100 and it has two T5 bulbs, and comes with them. Another good place for cheap but good lights is fishneedit.com They seem kind of like a fly by night company from their website, but i bought a t5ho setup from them for my 37g for half the price i would've paid for something on foster and smith that wouldn't have been much better, only bad part is the bulbs they come with are mediocre.


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## fishman81 (Jan 12, 2011)

as for filters if you wanna go cannister, i like my Rena Filstar XP3, they make an XP2 that would be big enough for a 30g, would go with the XP3 for a 55g if you can afford it. Otherwise i like the aqueon HOB's for waterflow, less than $50, and they push a lot of water, i think 400 gph. If you want real custom filtration go with a canister, much more flexibile.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

What about good things to go with the kissing gourami? The Goldfish is getting his own tank


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Homedepot/ Lowes sell some nice flouresent fixtures that are cheaper than you would find at any petshop. Some people suspend them over the tank or build a canopy or just set on top of glass covers.
Filter, I like Aquaclear they are great filters get the one for 110 gallons if you getting the 55, you can adjust the flow of water.

Then again your aunt and uncle should have everything you need.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

the thing is that this was a long time ago and I just found out about it when I told my grandpa I got a tank
will I NEED a hood?


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

It's always good to have a hood just in case the fish try to jump. Personally, I'd get the 55 gallon since Kissing Gouramis are known to get pretty big. More room the better. Um..I don't know how well the neon tetras will do with the Kissing Gourami once it gets bigger. If it fits in the mouth of the Kissing Gourami, they may eat it. But if you raise them young together there is always a chance of it working out. But I'd add some more neons since they are a schooling fish or you could try the Cardinal tetras instead of the neons. They get a little bigger.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

What about a pair of dwarf gouramis? I want a lot of fish so i think ill go with mostly smaller fish


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

If you're going to do two Dwarf Gouramis, try to get a male a female or you may have some problems.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

How can you tell the difference? What else can go well with those?


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

You should be able to find some websites that tell you how to figure out the gender of Dwarf Gouramis. A lot of things will go with the Dwarf Gourami since they are considered community fish.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

ok ill look that up, now if I have two dwarf gouramis then will those get too big for neon tetras? as in eat them? if i have 5 or 6 of those then a pair of gouramis then what else would go and look good with that


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

Dwarf Gouramis only get around 2 in. so no you shouldn't have a problem with them eating your neons. Um..you could do some cory catfish.


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

Granted I like schools of little fish as much as anyone, but the perk of having a larger tank means you can have larger fish. Do your research and look into something like african cichlids. After I move my oscars to my new 75g that is most likely what I will do with my 55g. You will love the bigger tank BTW, the bigger you go the more options you have in terms of fish, plants, decor, etc.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

For a 55 or 30 for myself - I'd be looking at Discus or Angels.
Then maybe 5 rummynose and 5 corys and call it a day in terms of fish.
In terms of plants and decor, I'd look at easy to maintain plants such as Java fern on a lump of bogwood, and some amazon swords interspersed with vallis. - Nothing complicated...
Lighting - I'd be looking at LED because compared with a good fitting - in 2 years you'll save the money on tubes alone.
Substrate etc. 2nd time round - I think I'd buy a dark substrate.
Filtration - Drill it and sump it or use an internal filter. Canisters I see reliability issues with and HOB - I have too many power cuts for.
That's what I'd be looking at for me 
cb


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Now after measuring the area that I have, the 55 gallon is too much for my apartment (unless I dont want a functional front door). Im kind of stuck with the 30 gallon so lets assume a 30 gallon here. What are the disadvantages of a HOB filter for a 30 gallon? And about lights, is there any type of LED's that will change color (in the car world this exists even though i think its stupid) Any that i can change from sunlight to moonlight?

I thought that Chiclids were semi aggressive, can they still be put together in that case? I havent really thought about doing much with Chiclids because I like different types also (i might be getting too picky here though) 
What I mean by different types is some variability on what i have. Thats why I had been looking into the smaller non aggressive fish, so I can have lots of different colors and shapes.
Sorry for all the questions, Im trying to do it right this time


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Assuming you want to keep the Kissing Gourami and Tetras, Chiclids are pretty much off the table from my understanding. I think your first priority is to flesh out the Tetra school with at least 4+ more (more is always better). They'll be happier, and they look much nicer in a good sized school. 

If you want lots of color, take a look at guppies. You can either keep 2-3 females to every one male if you want them to breed or all males in a 6+ group for maximum color. If you want them to breed, have a plan in place beforehand on what to do with the fry, as they will happily overpopulate the tank in short order otherwise. The gourami might help keep the fry numbers down as they tend to chomp on them, but don't count on it as your sole plan. If you go the all males route, they will tend to chase each other due to the fact that they're the most ummm "breeding obsessed" males of any fish, so make sure you have 6+ so no one gets chased constantly.

You'll want to add some sort of bottom dweller to help balance out the tank, so you might want to look into cory cats, otos, or any of the smaller loaches to finish off the tank. Maybe a bristlenose pleco too if you like their look, but make sure you have driftwood and hidey holes for them. I have 3 otos, 3 dwarf chain loaches, and a bristlenose pleco in my 30 gallon, and they definitely add some activity and life along the bottom, plus they help keep the place clean.

Hope this helps!


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

Some Cichlids are aggressive and some are less aggressive. Angelfish are in the Cichlid family but you'll see them mostly in community fish tanks. I'm sure someone could recommend a Cichlid that isn't aggressive. I've never kept them other than Angelfish.


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

LaurenK said:


> Some Cichlids are aggressive and some are less aggressive. Angelfish are in the Cichlid family but you'll see them mostly in community fish tanks. I'm sure someone could recommend a Cichlid that isn't aggressive. I've never kept them other than Angelfish.


Word of caution on the Angelfish... Depending how big they get and their personality, they might decimate your Tetras. One of my friends gave me her Angelfish when she moved away and that fish killed half of my Neon Tetra school by biting out their eyes before I could catch and rehome the survivors. Angelfish also tend to be pretty sensitive and less forgiving of water parameters getting out of whack, so if you still decide to go with them you'll want to wait until the tank is well established.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks for these answers and help. I personally am not a huge fan of angelfish so I hadent taken a second thought about those. I'm worried about the gourami eating the tetras and harassing the guppies. What if I did 5 neon tetras 2 Cory cats and a snail and 3 guppies. And maybe 5 of something else small that schools?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm actually looking into adding a gourami with my guppies once I move them over to the 75 gallon I'm working on, and from all my research they shouldn't bother each other. Lots of folks actually recommend using gourami to control the overabundant guppy fry as they will leave the adult guppies alone. I also have neon tetras in that same tank, but from my reading gourami usually will leave them alone as long as the tetras are full grown and as long as the gourami isn't in the middle of trying to court a female. If you keep the one gourami it should have no reason to get in a huffy breeding season mood. The only reason I would suggest getting rid of the gourami you already have in favor of the guppies or tetras is if you truly don't want the gourami anymore. As long as you keep an eye on the gourami and any new tetras to make sure you don't have an unusually aggressive one then you should be a-ok 

Otherwise, the fish combination you're suggesting should work fine. Another good, active schooling fish would fit as long as you didn't add all the new fish at once, take a few weeks between fish additions to give the tank time to adjust to the bioload increases. Rasboras are colorful and active, as are Danios. Or you could get another variety of tetras.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Is this overstocked for a 30 gallon? What about plants and decor? Would I'll probably need a bubbler won't I?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

windySI said:


> Is this overstocked for a 30 gallon? What about plants and decor? Would I'll probably need a bubbler won't I?


This is my favorite site for figuring out if I'm overstocked or what fish will or won't work together. It tends to err on the conservative/cautious side, so if your build looks good there it shouldn't have any issues:
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

Bubblers honestly are unneccessary as long as you've got good surface agitation from a filter. Most of the time a bubbler is only helpful if you've got heavy live planting and CO2 dosing since the plants eat up all the oxygen at night when the lights are off. If you want plants, it's usually easiest to start off with a low tech/low light setup. Someone more experienced than me with planted tanks (I'm just now graduating to a medium/high light, high tech setup after 6 months of trying out a low light setup) should chime in on that part  For decor, go with what you like, although the more natural and hidey-hole full for them to explore and retreat to when scared generally the happier the fish will be.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

That's pretty cool. It told me the kissing gourami is going to get too big. What about one of those little sharks with the red on them. Or are those aggressive


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Rainbow Shark or Red Tailed Black Sharks need a minimum of 55 gallons and will be very aggressive to your smaller fish if kept in something as small as a 30 gallon. They can be kept in a community tank if you're careful and have a larger tank so the shark doesn't decide his "territory" is the entire tank. 

If you like the look of gouramis you might be able to swap your kissing gourami for a dwarf gourami instead.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I like the idea of the dwarf gouramis. No sharks then. I was at the pet store a while back and saw some small diamond shaped fish. I think they were tetras and they had colored stripes along their back one was green and one was orange I think they were tetras but I'm not sure now Does anyone know what these might be?


What's the best type of filtration for a 30 gallon?


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## Stinky (Jun 18, 2009)

There are some colorful cichlids that vary greatly in color, such as african cichlids, you just need marine-level lighting to bring it out. A friend I knew had a tank similar to this (but smaller) and casual observers thought it was marine (his had sand and some mock corals and ocean type decorations, which I always think is strange for freshwater).


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

See now to me those look like their always fighting and nipping at each other and im most likely wrong but is that healthy for them?
What about other things I could keep with Chiclids


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

luananeko said:


> Word of caution on the Angelfish... Depending how big they get and their personality, they might decimate your Tetras. One of my friends gave me her Angelfish when she moved away and that fish killed half of my Neon Tetra school by biting out their eyes before I could catch and rehome the survivors. Angelfish also tend to be pretty sensitive and less forgiving of water parameters getting out of whack, so if you still decide to go with them you'll want to wait until the tank is well established.


If you raise the Angelfish young and raise them with their tank mates you have a less chance of them eating your fish. Neon tetras aren't the greatest choice to put with Angelfish as they don't grow very big and can fit in the Angel's mouth when full grown. If you go with an Angelfish, I'd suggest switching to the Cardinal Tetra like I suggested earlier in the topic.


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## Stinky (Jun 18, 2009)

windySI said:


> See now to me those look like their always fighting and nipping at each other and im most likely wrong but is that healthy for them?
> What about other things I could keep with Chiclids


The idea is to get close to how they behave in the wild, which isn't really unhealthy. They are aggressive but things are stable if the tank is in good shape all around. The only thing I can think of to keep with them are plecos.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Im still unsure about going with something thats aggressive, especially since im fairly new at this


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## Budlight 20 (Mar 31, 2012)

Some good fish for a 30 gallon are green tiger barbs maybe a dwarf chiclid but they need a hideing cave and some of the larger tetras also an uside down catfish also if you get a dwarf chiclid youll needabout 2 or 3 and a lot ofhiding places


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Your green and orange tatras are probably injected with fluorescent dye - a common practice. They fade, and then die.

A lot of people get caught by not reading - and then buying into pet shop, trade names for fish. Latin's nerdy, but it's precise.
There are at least 5 upside down catfish species, some of which get big and are aggressive. Some stay small.
There a many different gouramis, ranging from 1.5 to 18 inches in the aquarium.
Red-tailed sharks are just barbs, and nasty ones at that.
There are hundreds of 'pleco' species, again, in all sizes.

Plus, trade names can change by country, by region or even from one pet shop to another. Harlequin rasboras are several species, rummy nose tetras are three different things, there's a natural parrot cichlid and a very different hybrid fish farm parrot cichlid, on and on. The absolute, wonderful diversity of life on our planet is fantastic, but it complicates life for aquarists...


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

windySI said:


> Im still unsure about going with something thats aggressive, especially since im fairly new at this


My general rule of thumb is if you really like a fish, then it's worth doing the research to see if you feel comfortable trying to keep it. If you don't like it enough to make it worth the effort, or if you don't feel confident enough after doing all your research, then it's usually best to leave it for later on when you're ready for a challenge. If you're happy with tetras, gourami, etc, then there's nothing wrong with sticking with what you know. Chiclids aren't for everyone and can be daunting to someone relatively new. Besides, if you went with chiclids then you would almost definitely need to rehome or find another tank for your other fish.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I enjoy the way they look, just unsure on keeping them since theres so many types. Im pretty swayable and have a bit of time, I wont even set up this tank until next august. but ill get the tank and build a stand over the summer. 

I like the tetras because of the colors and the different shapes of the fish like these









And just like everyone, id like to maximize my amount of fish for the space
Wouldnt I only be able to have like 5 or 6 chiclids in a 30 gallon?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm not familiar enough with chiclids to say how many you can have in a 30 gallon, but they definitely get larger than the tetras, rasboras, or danios, so clearly you won't be able to keep very many compared to if you got smaller fish. Tetras and the like look really cool in large schools, so if you want you could have a tank with only one or two types of schooling fish with 8-10 each, plus a dwarf gourami and a couple scavengers and it would be a very colorful and active tank. Or if you go the chiclid route then you could have much larger and vibrant colored fish that are also active, just much fewer than the schooling fish route. Just depends what type of look you prefer.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I like the schooling ones, but heres where I get hung up, what to get?


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

If you like color, get cardinal tetras, they are like neons, but have a red stipe and blue stripe that go along their entire body, they are also a bit hardier than neons. I personally really like my black harlequin rasboras and harlequin rasboras. 

You could get another species of tetra, barbs, cory cats, platies, guppies, etc . . .

Those are all the schooling fish I can think of off the top of my head.


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

Like Jon said, the cardinals are a great choice and there are countless other tetras you could try. Bleeding heart tetras, serpae tetras, golden pristella tetras, rummy nose tetras come to mind, but there are hundreds to chose from. My advice would be to go to a LFS and look to see what you like the looks of. Take notes. Write down names. Then go home and look them up online. A little research will get you so much further ahead of the game in this hobby. My last action before deciding on a fish selection is to take my ideas to Susan (Susankat) in chat and run it by her, LOL.


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

In addition to tetras and rasboras, take a look at the danios when you're going through your LFS. They may not have the color of the tetras or rasboras, but they are VERY active and can add a lot of life to the tank while zipping around. Just make sure to have a good long stretch of open space in the front of the tank so they can get going and stretch their fins. 

If there are no small LFS near you Petco or Petsmart will have a good variety of schooling fish, just be sure to look carefully for sick fish before buying any.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Do I have to worry about the life span of the tetras? how long do they live in general?


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

most schooling fish will live 5 or more years if cared for correctly.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

cool, I guess i have this stigma of small fish not living long


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## Stinky (Jun 18, 2009)

The max life for neons is 5 years, maybe more, but the vast majority don't live that long, only about 3 years.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Stinky said:


> The max life for neons is 5 years, maybe more, but the vast majority don't live that long, only about 3 years.


This is generally due to stores not taking proper care of them.

Once they are placed in a proper environment they can and will live to their max life.

You could say the same thing about betta fish. Most people I know who have owned betta fish, seem to keep their betta alive for 1 - 2 years. A bettas lifespan is 5+ years. The reason they live for such a small amount of time is because of the way stores sell them and the fact they are often not properly cared for.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

Alot has to do with breeding, stress and inbreeding from the start. Sometimes it doesnt matter how well you take care of them when you buythem if they have had a hard stressful life to start then they already have shortened life spans. I'd say 3-4 years max or you might get lucky and reach 5.


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## Stinky (Jun 18, 2009)

True. You pretty much have to hatch them yourself from good breeding pairs where inbreeding isn't an issue, and where you will provide minimal stress. When it comes to bettas, I find that the veiltails that are less showy, more drab often tend to live longer. Maybe because it's the inbreeding that creates desirable colors and varieties.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

My main concern was that they would live like a few months and die


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

With Neons you should always assume there will be some die-off, due to the poor breeding stock that's out there right now. As long as the ones you get last through the first month or so they'll live for quite a while barring your tank getting seriously out of whack.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

heres what Ive got
6 Neon Tetra
6 xray tetra
3 Cherry Shrimp
5 Zebra Danio
4 Emerald Green Cory Cats
Is this ok?
I was wondering if I could do less of the Cory Cats, the website said there had to be 4


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

bump it to the top


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Cory cats are schooling fish, so they prefer to be in groups. I wouldn't go with any less than 4.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Is there one slightly bigger fish that can go with these that isnt aggressive but doesnt get too big and can be solitary?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm not sure what you consider "slightly larger", but a bristlenose pleco could be solitary and help with any algae you might get. They max out at 4-5 inches.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Im not a particularly big fan of plecos, will the shrimp eat some of the algae?
Is there something like maybe 5 inches that is solitary and has good color?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

A gourami or a betta are probably your best bets for colorful, non-small fish that don't mind (or need in the betta's case) being the only one of their kind in the tank. The shrimp might help with algae, but I cant say for certain since I havent kept them before.

Edit: Another note on the betta... Aqadvisor will tell you that pretty much no fish are recommended to be kept with a betta. It's a tad on the paranoid side. On occasion you will find a betta that won't tolerate any other fish, but the majority will do fine with the danios, tetras, cory cats, shrimp, etc.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Maybe ill wait on something bigger
What about plants in this, I plan on a smallish rock formation on one end and some driftwood on the other end with some plants behind and in between
Also should I do a long bubbler along the back


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Unless you're using a lot of CO2 for live plants, bubblers aren't needed. You can add one if you like the look, but you get more oxygen into your water from the surface agitation caused by your filter than you do from a bubbler.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

ok so no bubbler, I really like a natural look what type of substrate is good for this tank? I guess I should probably figure that out before I think about plants


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Are you going with live plants or fake? If fake, any natural colored gravel is fine. If live plants, eco-complete or some other nutrient-full substrate is better. You can still use regular gravel for live plants, but depending on the plants you get you probably will need to dose fertilizers.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Id really enjoy live but is it alot harder than fake plants?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Low light/low tech planted tanks generally aren't too hard. They're intimidating at first, but as long as you go with easy, undemanding plants like anubias, java ferns, and crypts then it's pretty hard to mess up


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

what about filtration? will a hang on back filter do ok?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Yep, should work fine. As long as you have a decent filter then its all up to personal preference on if you go canister, hang on back, or sponge filter (only if you want low water current).


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Will current potentially harm the small fish. Currently they stay away from the current of the flow. If it is too high I could always block it with something a little bit Will sand hurt the catfish at all? I'm trying to get it as natural as possible and pull elements from each of the fishs habitat


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

A standard hang on back filter shouldn't cause too much flow to bother the fish you have in mind. Mostly folks go for the sponge filters when they're dealing with frogs, fish fry, bettas, or gourami (to avoid damaging bubble nests).

Sand shouldn't hurt any fish, plenty of folks use it with great success. Just be aware it might be harder to clean since your siphon will tend to suck it all up. I usually use gravel so someone more familiar with using sand would have to give you tips on the best way to keep sand clean.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

I like Pool filter sand since its a bit larger grains it doesnt get stirred up as easy, just be a little carful when vacuming, dont dig down deep, some people with live plants and sand dont even syphon the bottom, Aquaclear filters are great and have adjustment to lower the flow of water.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I like the price of the aquaclear, one on amazon is 28. Its a 50 gallon size though, should I overfilter it?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Filter vendors always overrate their filter's capability. A 50 gallon filter is the perfect size for a 30 gallon tank, especially if you plan on stocking anywhere near the tanks capacity. You can always lower the flow rate of the over-sized filter too, but you can't make a too-small filter over-perform.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Ok so thus far I have a 30 gallon tank with :
6 Neon Tetra
4 Emerald Cory Cats
3 Cherry Shrimp
5 Zebra Danio
6 Xray Tetra
Filtered with a AquaClear 50 gallon 
With a pool filter sand as substrate
Im actually leaning towards mostly fake plants and some Java Moss
Then im going to try and find an LED light with both day and night modes

Hows that sound?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

From my understanding LED lights are more expensive and unnecessary if all you want to grow is Java Moss. If you want to upgrade to plants later then I can understand putting in the cost, but it's definitely overkill for your current planned tank.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

so just do a flourescent? is there any way to get a day/night mode from it?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

I've never done anything with day/night settings, so someone else will need to chime in on that. Any time you go for the dual lighting type set-up you're raising the price tag though. Java Moss doesn't care about day/night lights, just that it gets some light during the day. Fish generally don't care about night lights either from my experience, so only go through the effort of getting one if you like the look.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

windySI said:


> Ok so thus far I have a 30 gallon tank with :
> 6 Neon Tetra
> 4 Emerald Cory Cats
> 3 Cherry Shrimp
> ...


so far looks good, just keep in mind if you end up with a pair of shrimp they will multiply but thats not a big deal either.
Also on the lights, I my opinion the day/ night light thing is more just a look for the owners, although the leds do look nice. I'm not sure either how well they do at growing plants, I'm sure they are fine for low light plants but if you want anything more in the future you may end up needing another light. I use flouresent lights. If you want a night light they also sell small submersable leds to put right down in the gravel, check pet co/smart


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

do the submersible ones have cords going all over?
Im attempting to minimize that


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

take a look at this.
Marineland Auto Color Changing LED Bubble Ring at PETCO

I dont actually have one or seen them in person, but they look neat and I'm sure there is a cord that would have to run down in the tank.
If you have your heart set on day/night then go ahead and get the led hood.
One thing I've learned in this hobby is you can spend a little money and have a nice set up or spend alot and have a nice setup, its all about personal preference, and the last thing you want is to buy a flourescent then sit there and wish you got LED.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I know its been a long time, got busy with school, but now im rethinking going with a peaceful tank, what is there that is/looks exotic that I could put with some chiclids or something


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

If you're still going with a 30 gallon a lot of the chiclids will get too big for it. Most folks I hear that are going chiclid have a 50 gallon tank minimum. I don't know a whole lot about the various species, so someone else can suggest something that might be suitable for the smaller tank.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

The reason for wanting to go this route, is I love everything exotic and rare, and I was hoping there would be something that not many people see normally


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Exotic and rare is in the eye of the beholder... There are plenty of "exotic" looking fish out there other than chiclids. Unfortunately, most of those "exotic" fish grow rather large and would not do well in a 30 gallon tank. 

Your best bet is to go to one of the fish shops that sell online and just browse through all the fish categories until you find fish you like. Thatpetplace.com or Liveaquaria.com both have a wide variety. Once you see a fish you really like, look around for more information about what that fish needs and see if it's something you think you can provide. 

I find it helps to have a prioritized "wish list", where I list the fish I definitely want to try and get, along with fish I like but could do without if they're not compatible with my high priority fish. From there find out which can live in the same type of tank and make your stocking plan based on that. Hope this helps!


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

does anyone know about dwarf puffers? on thatpetplace.com it says a min of 5 gallon tank, would one of these do fine on its own?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

I'll let someone experienced with dwarf puffers chime in on that one... I've never had or researched them in the slightest. I think my LFS has one in a big display tank where its the only fish in the tank though.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

After reading into them a bit, i think its too aggressive. Now I just came across pipefish, which are really cool and peaceful but require live food and it has trouble competing for the food. Do you have any experience with those?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry, no... I mostly stick to live bearers, tetras, rasboras, danios, bettas, ADFs, and various catfish, with relatively brief trials of rainbowfish, angels, and rams when I was younger. I've also researched a lot on gourami, red tail sharks, and loaches lately since they're on my stocking plan for my 75 gallon I've been establishing.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

A shark would be sweet but from what I can tell, there are none that are small enough for a 30 gallon


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

i just came across a 40 gallon set up for $100
It comes with:

-custom two piece glass lid
-55 gallon filter
-10 sponge filter
-40g heater (1 year old) 
-dual outlet air pump
-24'' daul light (new hardware) 
-sand/rocks(optional) 
-wooden stand i made (42'' tall)
-power strip with light timer
-random buckets and supplies 

Is this worth it?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, considering that stands alone usually run $50+ and the tanks themselves are typically $100 minimum. When you add in all the extra goodies and it sounds perfect for you


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Anything to look out for when buying a used tank?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

The main thing with used tanks is you need to make sure they have no leaks. If they're willing to fill the tank in front of you so you can look for any pools of water forming on the sides or under the tank then that's great, but sometimes the really slow leaks aren't obvious until the tank sits with water for a couple days. These can usually be fixed pretty easily with some aquarium silicone sealant, as long as you find the leak before you start adding fish and decorations.

It's also a good idea to give the tank a really good washing (preferably just with lots and lots of tap water, or very mildly soapy water as long as you really rinse it afterwards) when you get it home to make sure no contaminants or chemicals that might have gotten into it while it was sitting in storage at the other persons place. For example, if they stored it in the garage and then did some spray painting or sanding work in the garage, it's possible for the dust or spray mist to settle in the tank if it wasn't properly sealed/packed.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I think Im good on both of those, I think fish are in it currently and they will be relocated if I buy it, so no leaks and it wasnt in a garage, I think im going to jump on it and hold it over the summer. Is it possible/ok to build a rock formation with an overhang or tunnel?


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Yep, lots of folks build their own rock caves out of slate with silicone sealant to hold it all together. Just make sure to either keep it stable enough so there's no risk of it getting toppled by a fish and/or have it attach to the side of the tank with suction cups for extra support. The last thing you want is to crack the sides or bottom of the tank because something shifted. I'm sure there's some threads in the DIY forums with explanations, and if there aren't then there are lots of websites with tutorials.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

dang, im not sure if ill be able to get this tank, my parents say they dont want it in their house


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