# help on a 12 gallon nano cube dx setup.



## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

i have a 12 gallon nano cube dx and was wondering tons of things.where to start um i started with my old crushed coral rock then got some live rock in there and found out crushed coral isnt the best so i bought special grade reef sand and i have about 7 or 8 pounds of live rock with stuff all over it lots i dont even know what they are but they are alive which is cool i have tested my water numerous times with a strip ph test .(question #1) was wondering if thats a accurate enough reading or do i need to go the master test kit? the strips read alkaline and alkalinity are white slash a super super light shade of pink like really even hard to tell, ph was between 8.0 and 8.5 , kh is 240 and gh was 180. (question #2) was wondering if i need a nano reef proteinskimmer? i have 3 cube filters need to get new activated charcoal and the other stuff inder that and the same powerhead but i added a bigger one to push more water around cuz it sure wasnt doing it with the one it came with.. i have 2 snails in there trying to clean it up but im getting some brown i guess alage on teh live sand and the powerhead! help! please ive tryed to give as much info as i can if there is anything else u need to know ask me and i will try to tell you what you need. also ordered 2 new 24w 10000k blue and white light and one with both white lights. which should go on the front and which should go on the back? they needed to be changed. also if u have any suggestion on where to get the blue night lights in them or whatever they are called please help i know im a newb but im so intrested in the colors the care and the life that it brings if any one could help me out please feel free to help a new SW lover.thank you so much.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Protienskimmers are needed for small tanks. They remove bad stuff (protiens)that a mechanical filter doesn't. I wouldn't worry about your ph until it drops to 8.0 or below. Then you need to make a partial water change (with new saltwater) and try to bring the ph above 8.2. The waste products generated by fish tend to bring down the ph of a tank and the only solution is a partial water changes.
Merry Christmas!


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

NeonShark666 said:


> Protienskimmers are needed for small tanks. They remove bad stuff (protiens)that a mechanical filter doesn't. I wouldn't worry about your ph until it drops to 8.0 or below. Then you need to make a partial water change (with new saltwater) and try to bring the ph above 8.2. The waste products generated by fish tend to bring down the ph of a tank and the only solution is a partial water changes.
> Merry Christmas!



I disagree, many nanoreefers will tell you that a protein skimmer is not necessary for success. You can accomplish what a skimmer does by doing routine water changes, which is what I have done with absolutely no problems. I have optimal growth and all my corals are happy. Protein skimmers are beneficial, but for the price, they are not always the best or most economical option for a small tank


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

thank you both for your advice and i would love to get some more feed back from other nanoreefers


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't think it matters where you put the lights. I think you can get new moonlights on nanotuners.com. A lot of people replace the stock pump for a Maxi Jet 900. It does 230 gph, and the stock only does 106 gph. You might want a little bit more live rock to have more bio filtration. If you haven't removed the bioballs/ceramic rings, and sponges, I'd take them out, because they become nitrate factories. You can put LR rubble in the back where those were as well as some activated carbon or purigen or whatever. If you want some mechanical filtration you could stuff some filter floss in the 1st chamber.
Kaiden


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I have a 420gph hydor powerhead. Will that be sufficient enough? How do you classify the chambers, from left to right or right to left from the front of the tank? What is purigen and what does filter floss do? Do you know anything about how to keep everything stable without filtration? Thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated!


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Filter floss is like the stuff they make filter cartridges out of. It just catches all the poop and food and junk floating around in your tank. 
Here's the product description of purigen:

Purigen® is a premium synthetic adsorbent that is unlike any other filtration product. It is not a mixture of ion exchangers or adsorbents, but a unique macro-porous synthetic polymer that removes soluble and insoluble impurities from water at a rate and capacity that exceeds all others by over 500%. Purigen® controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal. It significantly raises redox. It polishes water to unparalleled clarity. Purigen® darkens progressively as it exhausts, and is easily renewed by treating with bleach. Purigen® is designed for both marine and freshwater use. 

Never used the stuff, so I'm not sure how well it works, but maybe someone else can chime in and give some experience.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> I have a 420gph hydor powerhead. Will that be sufficient enough? How do you classify the chambers, from left to right or right to left from the front of the tank? What is purigen and what does filter floss do? Do you know anything about how to keep everything stable without filtration? Thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated!


420 will be fine, more than I have in my 14. The chambers are 1, 2, and 3. chamber one is the intake where the biocube filter goes, chamber 2 is where the bioballs WERE (hopefully you removed them ) and chamber 3 is the output pump.



Kaiden32 said:


> Filter floss is like the stuff they make filter cartridges out of. It just catches all the poop and food and junk floating around in your tank.
> Here's the product description of purigen:
> 
> Purigen® is a premium synthetic adsorbent that is unlike any other filtration product. It is not a mixture of ion exchangers or adsorbents, but a unique macro-porous synthetic polymer that removes soluble and insoluble impurities from water at a rate and capacity that exceeds all others by over 500%. Purigen® controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal. It significantly raises redox. It polishes water to unparalleled clarity. Purigen® darkens progressively as it exhausts, and is easily renewed by treating with bleach. Purigen® is designed for both marine and freshwater use.
> ...


Well Put. Purigen removes ammonia, nitrites, nitrates without taking out the trace elements that are beneficial to your tank critters. It is good to used AFTER your tank is established if you have algae outbreak such as cyanobacteria due to high no2's, no3's, or po4's. Don't even worry about it for a while down the road.


When you say "Do you know anything about how to keep everything stable without filtration?" I am a little confused on your question. All a standard carbon filter does is remove particle matter/detritus and then carbon clears the water by removing organics. If you mean remove the filter in general, it has been done it's called the berlin method 
link here:
Berlin Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is my opinion that everyone should keep up with their carbon filters in addition to the biological filtration, and many reefers would agree I'm sure. Most people who don't run filters, run a protein skimmer


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I have removed the three sponges, and the ceramic cylinders, and the plastic filtration balls. Now all I have is an activated carbon bag handing over the second and third chamber divider (more in the third chamber). Is it harmful to have the LR rubble in the filtration or would it cause too many problems? I just got two new test kits (both API master kits and they both have different purposes). I also bought calcium and Zooplex. It's my first time using the test kits and the boosters (calcium and Zooplex) and I was wondering if you guys might know any links about when to add/not add them. Also I have the Superbuffer DKH and the dose is 2 tsp. mixed in the saltwater:goldfish: (Monday), and 15 minutes after that I add the turbo calcium 1/8th tsp. mixed with tap water (Monday). I also have the Lugol's solution - two drops (Mondays and Thursdays). The guy at the aquarium store gave me the instructions on doses. Is that the proper dosing for each week? Thanks again and sorry for the lectures

PS: I have about 7lbs of live rock. And a 12 gallon tank. What would be the preferred amount of live rock poundage? Lol

The end.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> I have removed the three sponges, and the ceramic cylinders, and the plastic filtration balls. Now all I have is an activated carbon bag handing over the second and third chamber divider (more in the third chamber). Is it harmful to have the LR rubble in the filtration or would it cause too many problems? I just got two new test kits (both API master kits and they both have different purposes). I also bought calcium and Zooplex. It's my first time using the test kits and the boosters (calcium and Zooplex) and I was wondering if you guys might know any links about when to add/not add them. Also I have the Superbuffer DKH and the dose is 2 tsp. mixed in the saltwater:goldfish: (Monday), and 15 minutes after that I add the turbo calcium 1/8th tsp. mixed with tap water (Monday). I also have the Lugol's solution - two drops (Mondays and Thursdays). The guy at the aquarium store gave me the instructions on doses. Is that the proper dosing for each week? Thanks again and sorry for the lectures
> 
> PS: I have about 7lbs of live rock. And a 12 gallon tank. What would be the preferred amount of live rock poundage? Lol
> 
> The end.


You can put LR in you rear chamber thats no problem, a lot of people do it to improve the biological filtration. You should have around 1 lb of LR per gallon. Why are you dosing so early?


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Well I have had it up for almost 3 weeks. I have already seen the dyotomes and they are almost completely gone. I've had live rock in there for about the same amount of time. When would the right time be to start dosing?


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> Well I have had it up for almost 3 weeks. I have already seen the dyotomes and they are almost completely gone. I've had live rock in there for about the same amount of time. When would the right time be to start dosing?


Dosing should be left to the experts once you know what your tank needs/uses. Dosing is used to replace elements that are absorbed or lost over time, however, they also come in the salt. If you keep up with regular water changes, you replenish what is used, so there is no need to dose. I don't even dose calcium and I have a ton of LPS coral, snails, hermits (which use it for their exos) and my calcium levels are always within the safe range. In a sense, you are wasting money using something you don't need. The only thing I do dose is iodide, and that is because I have anthelia and kenya that sucks it up in only a few days. IMHO, save your money and do more water changes, you are killing two birds with one stone: replenishing trace elements, and removing waste


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I'm also going to be starting a 24 gallon saltwater within a week any suggestions for that? and thank you so much for your help this really means alot.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

On another note, what do I feed my inverts? Brine shrimp frozen or mysis shrimp? Or should I get a brine shrimp making kit?


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd say just pretty much do what you did with the 12 gal. You're gonna have to do bigger water changes, but really that is the only real difference.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

That is going to depend on what inverts you have.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

What would a white tree-looking thing be called?







I also have two turbo snails, and was wondering what kind of clean-up crew I should get in it?


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Picture of the tree thing

725-1.jpg picture by lbabigurl101 - Photobucket


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> On another note, what do I feed my inverts? Brine shrimp frozen or mysis shrimp? Or should I get a brine shrimp making kit?


They are scavengers, let them pick at the LR. I would not go with brine shrimp making kit lol, they are not that picky. You can even throw in extra pellets (only if you are dead set on target feeding them). Not too much though. Whenever I feed my corals frozen mysis, the crabs and snails like to get the scraps.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> Picture of the tree thing
> 
> 725-1.jpg picture by lbabigurl101 - Photobucket


That looks like a hitch-hiking anenome... I don't want to say it's an aiptasia, but something similar. I would say it needs to be removed but I will wait for someone else to chime in


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

So should i not get any corals or any fish yet and wait? How long should i wait? If I need to wait.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> So should i not get any corals or any fish yet and wait? How long should i wait? If I need to wait.


I would say get a hearty damsel fish to help push along the cycle.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

How much longer do you think I have in my cycle? I'm sorry I keep asking so many questions and I hope you all know how much all this help means to me.If i get a damsel would I have to get rid of it later on when I add my two clown fish and goby fish? Do I need to get a clean up crew other than my 2 turbo snails? And what all would I need in my 12 gallon?


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

yeah looks like aiptasia to me...I'd take it out if I were you, just to be safe.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

How would I take it out without removing the whole rock?


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

If it is aiptasia, peppermint shrimp might eat it, but I wouldn't count on it. I'm not sure about a good way to do it.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

You can do a couple of things, you can:

Take out the rock, dry it out and kill it along with everything else that may be beneficial in the rock

or you can buy a peppermint shrimp like kaiden said, and they are "supposed" to eat them.

or you can do what I did and buy a little product at my LFS that you just inject into the mouth of the aiptasia and it kills it that way without it spawning hundreds of new ones which it does sometimes if it feels threatened (so don't try to cut it!)


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah I guess they can regenerate themselves out of like the tiniest little thing you leave behind when you cut it.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

The guy at the fish store said they were not bad for my tank? he said the ones with brown tentacles are bad or ones with crates that they sit in are bad. Any thoughts on that? Also what temperature should my tank be around i think its at 83 to 84 right now and I don't know if that is a good range. I also bought a Zoanthid green I think it still has not started opening back up and was wondering if my temperature is to hot or there is to much pressure on it from the power head? I will take a picture and post it let me know what u guys think of my new setup also it would really help out alot getting peoples feed back on how it looks. In other news i added 3 small/med hermit crabs still have my two turbo snails and i have 3 nassarius snails.let me know if I made a good buy? thanks everyone.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

ewwwww also forgot to ask, what is the best way to make coraline algae grown? I'm all most sure that is the one that i want being the purple and pink color right?sorry you guys can tell me I'm a newb all you want


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Haha thats okay. I think your temp is a little high, usually you want it between 75 and 82 farenhiet (however you spell it). Hermit crabs are an excellent addition to a clean up crew. Zoanthids are very good beginner corals. If the powerhead is aiming right at it, I'd move it, because that would probably be why they aren't opening up. It could be that your temperature is a little high though. Do you have a heater, or is it just that high by itself? I'm not an expert on hitchhiking stuff, so i don't know for sure about that anemone looking thing.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I bought a digital thermometer from Petsmart and it is apparently reading 82-86 degrees and when I stuck my finger in there it was cold. I had my heater set at the lowest it would go. So, I'm going to buy a regular suction up thermometer to see if that helps.

The powerheads are not pointed directly on it, they're pointing towards the front of the tank. I'm going to post a picture on here to see what you guys think about the set up and whether the powerheads are in the right place. If you have any suggestions on how to set up the live rock or if you like the way it's set up, feel free to tell me Thanks! :fish10:


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Nice! I like the scape. One thing that I might consider is maybe moving the powerhead to the left side of the tank, just to create more chaotic water flow. With where you have it, both the pump and the power head are pointing the same general direction. Now, it is pointing at the glass though, so it is probably diffusing it a little bit, so you don't have to move it, that is just a suggestion. That seems like a lot of flow for that tank though, but it might just be me. I guess that fish would probably adapt to it, its just that a while ago I got a little clownfish and the current in my tank was too strong and it couldn't really swim, and that was only like 350 gph. I ended up having to point my powerhead at the glass so that it would diffuse the flow so the clown could swim. Again, just a thought, its your aquarium and you can do what you want with it. Maybe csingh07 has some feedback.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Here's a link to my gallery, so you can see my tank. Its the same as yours, except there's still the stock pump, and a biocube powerhead. There is some zoanthids in mine now and I am getting a frag of xenia tomorrow, and the tank shot doesn't have the clown in it yet, but here you go:

Aquarium Gallery - Kaiden32 Gallery

10 astrea snails
2 red leg hermits
3 blue leg hermits
1 ocellaris clownfish (not in pic)
1 frag of green zoanthids (not in pic)
Tell me what you think!


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Any one have any ideas on how to get my calcium level back up i think its so low its starting to make my coraline algae turn to green not sure need help please.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

all4fire39 said:


> Any one have any ideas on how to get my calcium level back up i think its so low its starting to make my coraline algae turn to green not sure need help please.


Do a couple of water changes (10-15%) or buy a calcium supplement


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Does any one know how to help me do my test and which ones are really important? also is alkalinity the same and KH? Could some one refer me to a website about all the chemicals please.thank you.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

csingh07 I did a 75 percent water change so hopefully that will work i also bought the b-ionics alkalinity and calcium kit


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

75 percent is a lot...


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

That's what some guy said that i watched his videos on youtube. my calcium level was like 280 so he was like you need to do a 75 percent water change twice in 1 week.

Does any one know how to help me do my test and which ones are really important? also is alkalinity the same and KH? Could some one refer me to a website about all the chemicals please.thank you.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, just don't do it when you have all your fish, corals, etc. because it will really mess stuff up.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

Ok so I am having trouble keeping my calcium up and my alkalinity down..... and as far as I know I tested my magnesium and it was 1350. My dkh was 340.1ppmand my calcium was 280. I need help i have no clue how to fix this everything else was good. help! please.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Are you dosing for calcium? Sometimes if you dose too much calcium, from what I understand, your alkalinity will get screwed up. But I guess if that was the problem your calcium would be right.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

i does turbo calcium 1/8 tsp for a 12 gallow half full tank 1 time a week.


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

Slowly, over the course of the week, I would do a 30-40% water change and then test your levels. Make sure your test isn't screwed up. I always advise against dosing without full knowledge of reef chemistry because it can lead to imbalance and improper fixation of other marine elements


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

well the thing is i dont have much money for an ro/di unit so i am trying to find distilled water in stores and cant find it....... any ideas?


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

Most stores have "drinking water" machines, where you can bring/buy gallon jugs to fill up with drinking water. It's comparable to what you would get out of an RODI system and can range from 15 cents to 50 cents per gallon which isn't bad


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

do you have any links or locations of these systems? that would be amazing!


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## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

Most Wal-marts have them, Meijer (which is a mid-west chain), I'm sure sams club has them, or if you have any water distributors that deliver gallons to local businesses you may be able to get a contract with them (like culligan water)


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah. they almost always have them at Walmart.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

all4fire39 said:


> Ok so I am having trouble keeping my calcium up and my alkalinity down..... and as far as I know I tested my magnesium and it was 1350. My dkh was 340.1ppmand my calcium was 280. I need help i have no clue how to fix this everything else was good. help! please.



I certainly hope the dkh was not 340.1. Mixing units (degrees and ppm).

I would recommend you look up the diy two part system

see: An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

You use calcium chloride and baking soda to adjust calcium and alk.

So you start by adjusting all three to say 400, 9 khk, 1350. In you case it would seem some calcium chloride would be needed.

then mix up 1g mixtures 1 for calcium, 1 for alk, 1 for magnesium. When alk drops down you dose equal amounts of the calcium and alk mixtures. Then when 1g of the calcium and alk are used up you dose 300ml of the magnesium.

that keeps all three in line and doses according to what the tank uses.

Calcium chloride is used a driveway ice melter and to harden concrete at colder temperatures. a 50 pound bag is $20 or so.

alk is just baking soda (plain old arm and hammer)

magnesium is part epsom salts and part magnesium chloride. I get magnesium chloride from a local industrial supplier for $25 per 50 pound bag.

Seems complicated but once you get it setup it is second nature. I also used to give this stuff away at local club meetings and frag swaps.


my .02


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

I have moved this to the nano reef section as it has a lot of good information.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I read that if you dose calcium then it will start to bring the alk down and once they are the same to dose the same amounts.I am using the bionics 2 part stuff and i did some calcium for now so we will see in about half a day when i test again.... cost so much to test over and over.....but any suggestions on the bionics that would be great thanks.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

First.....stop dosing! There should be no need to dose a nano tank. Water changes will balance everything. Next, what salt mix are you using? Diiferent mixes have different alk and calcium levels but all will keep your corals alive. Like above, follow the water change regiment. Once you get the tank in balance do weekly 10% water changes and this will keep the tank fairly balanced.


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## all4fire39 (Dec 25, 2010)

I'm using instant ocean sea salt,but I'm not sure if the salt is bad because its really solid and i have to use and ice pick to try to get some out. I guess that means all the minerals have gone to the bottom or what not, and I also don't have an ro/di unit I'm buying distilled water from the store to try to help out with that.If i stop dosing my calcium drops down way low like 240 so I'm worryed on what to do because I'm not getting any real answers from anybody.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

First...dump the salt and buy new salt. It got exposed to humidity that is why it clumps also it doesn't mix up like it suppose to so i am suspecting this is leading to your calcium problem. The new salt store it in tupperwave or other tight sealing container so it isn't exposed to the air. Instant Ocean freshly mixed will have a calcium reading of 350. It is the salt i have used for 10 years now with no problems.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds like you need new salt. Try Reef Crystals, that salt is supposed to have extra calcium and other important stuff. I've never tried it, but others swear by it. Just a suggestion.


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## FkeidcDmn (Feb 3, 2011)

Do you think storing the salt with silica gel packets could make it keep longer?


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

dunno.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

I would use a tupperware like container. Just mae sure it's the air tight one.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

That would probly work.


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