# High PH in tank - seeking help



## robert_jun

Hi I am new to the forums and just starting my Freshwater Aquarium, seeking help.

Goal - To Set up the tank for tetra's ( red cardinals, and black skirts ) wanting my PH to be Slightly Acidic.
and wanting know if anyone knows what to do to bring my PH levels down since its spiking so early in development.
Day 4 ( exchanged water 2 times to try to bring the PH down. had been sitting for over 24 hours but rising slowly again in PH.

Current PH = 8 
did a ammonia and nitrite test just to see if the plants were doing anything 
Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrite = 0 
( cycle hasn't started ) 

The freshwater Aquarium which is 20 gallons fitted with a BioWheel 200 penguin, I have Art Rock for my substrate ( was rinsed before putting in ) Some Drift wood which I Boiled for hours before placing it in the Aquarium ) Two live plants which are not very big at the moment. high *PH of 8*

I originally filled the tank with roughly half brita filtered and half tap water ( tap water ( fossit water ) here in Los Angeles is coming out 7.2/7.4) to get my PH entering the Aquarium tank at 6.5 PH (de- chlorinate using tetra Aquasafe ) :fish-in-bowl: 

6.5 entering into the tank and rising to 8.

The Cycle hasn't even started and I'm having problems with the PH, I also don't wish to use chemicals for a quick fix.

any help would be much appreciated !!! 

*c/p*


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## susankat

Take a glass of water and let it sit for 24 hours, this will give it time to outgas and give you your true reading for the tap water. Also did you test the rock to make sure it doesn't raise your ph?


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## NursePlaty

*Seems to me something in the tank is raising it to 8. *


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## robert_jun

I will do a test tonight for the tapwater PH ( leaving it overnight )

though mixing the water in with brita and tapwater and getting a reading of 6.5 and it rising by 1.5 is pretty extreme.

substrate isn't raising the PH I doubled checked that.

tomorrow ill post the tap water PH after sitting overnight.

cheers
Rob

:fish9:


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## susankat

I have a friend that has well water, right out the tap it's ph is 5.8 after 24hours its sitting at almost 9. Water will show a lower ph till it outgasses.


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## robert_jun

Might need to start a new thread but hope to keep it all in one.

Anyone know if or how to create Low PH water without chemicals ie ( api ph up or down ) that is created to lower the tap water PH through some sort of filtration before it is put into the tank ? :fish-in-a-bag:


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## James0816

susankat said:


> I have a friend that has well water, right out the tap it's ph is 5.8 after 24hours its sitting at almost 9.


WoW! That's such a huge swing. Glad mine stays consistant....consisistantly low. ;o)




robert_jun said:


> Anyone know if or how to create Low PH water without chemicals ie ( api ph up or down ) that is created to lower the tap water PH through some sort of filtration before it is put into the tank ? :fish-in-a-bag:


RO/DI units will nuetralize the water (or should) to 7.


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## jrman83

I haven't checked, but what is the recommended range for the fish you want? MANY people have tanks with water outside the suggested ph range and the fish still thrive. It is more important for the water to be a stable ph vs any set value.

My ph is 8.2 out of the tap, in my tank, and even directly from my RO system. I haven't let the RO water sit a period before testing though.

You could add a few gallons of bottled water when you do your water changes to naturally bring down your ph. Being such a small tank it would be very easy.


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## beaslbob

robert_jun said:


> Hi I am new to the forums and just starting my Freshwater Aquarium, seeking help.
> 
> Goal - To Set up the tank for tetra's ( red cardinals, and black skirts ) wanting my PH to be Slightly Acidic.
> and wanting know if anyone knows what to do to bring my PH levels down since its spiking so early in development.
> Day 4 ( exchanged water 2 times to try to bring the PH down. had been sitting for over 24 hours but rising slowly again in PH.
> 
> Current PH = 8
> did a ammonia and nitrite test just to see if the plants were doing anything
> Ammonia = 0 ppm
> Nitrite = 0
> ( cycle hasn't started )
> 
> The freshwater Aquarium which is 20 gallons fitted with a BioWheel 200 penguin, I have Art Rock for my substrate ( was rinsed before putting in ) Some Drift wood which I Boiled for hours before placing it in the Aquarium ) Two live plants which are not very big at the moment. high *PH of 8*
> 
> I originally filled the tank with roughly half brita filtered and half tap water ( tap water ( fossit water ) here in Los Angeles is coming out 7.2/7.4) to get my PH entering the Aquarium tank at 6.5 PH (de- chlorinate using tetra Aquasafe ) :fish-in-bowl:
> 
> 6.5 entering into the tank and rising to 8.
> 
> The Cycle hasn't even started and I'm having problems with the PH, I also don't wish to use chemicals for a quick fix.
> 
> any help would be much appreciated !!!
> 
> *c/p*


There is a highly technical term for your conditions in tanks that have live plants.

it is called (drum roll please) Ta da.......



NORMAL!!!!!!!!!!!! *old dude

Plants prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates and consume carbon dioxide as well. So initially in my planted tank there are no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes but possibly an initial nitrates spike. then as the aerobic bacteria build up there is less and less ammoinia so the plants start getting their nitrogen from nitrates. So after a few weeks nitrates drop down.

By consuming carbon dioxide the plants cause high pH. I have started tanks with peat moss and soil master select both of which should result in low pH values. And the pH was initially 6.5 or so. But a day later the pH was up to 7.2 and a week later 8.4-8.8 with the high range api test kit. All my planted tanks have those values of pH because the plant action. Including my marine tanks. And before I added macro algaes in a marine tank with a heavy bioload the pH was 7.6 or lower. It rose to 8.0-8.2 in 24 hours and then to 8.4-8.8 a week later. All the tanks run at that pH for years.

My Fw tanks with fish (that are supposed to have soft acid water and pH values of 7 or less) live for years and years. They also are very active and show no signs of heavy breathing or other signs of stress. This is true for zebras, neon tetras, angelfish, hacetfish.

If you think about the effect of the plants, they are preventing ammonia spikes, consuming carbon dioxide and returning oxygen. So the tank becomes a net consumer of carbon dioxide and producer of oxygen every 24 hour period. That would seem to be a very good environment for any fish.

My FW tanks additionally have no circulation, no filters, no water changes, no co2, no dosing, and use untreated tap water (just for top offs). Just the tank, substrate, light, plants and fish.

With that setup I would be very worried if the pH dropped. That would mean something was very very worng.

So my advice is not to do massive water changes or add chemicals because the pH is too high. Those will kill the tank not the high pH.


still all and all just

my .02


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## robert_jun

Test results just a bit over 12 hours 

Test results are not in the Aquarium but water placed into containers 
- Ph in Aquarium tank is holding at 7.8 PH 

*Tap Water *
Ph 7.4 out of the tap
12 hours : ph 7.5 

*Brita mixed with tap *
Ph - 6.8
12 hours : ph 6.8 
*
Brita *
6.2 Ph
12 hours : ph 6.4

slight variations might also be from color discretion.




-


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## beaslbob

robert_jun said:


> Test results just a bit over 12 hours
> 
> Test results are not in the Aquarium but water placed into containers
> - Ph in Aquarium tank is holding at 7.8 PH
> 
> *Tap Water *
> Ph 7.4 out of the tap
> 12 hours : ph 7.5
> 
> *Brita mixed with tap *
> Ph - 6.8
> 12 hours : ph 6.8
> *
> Brita *
> 6.2 Ph
> 12 hours : ph 6.4
> 
> slight variations might also be from color discretion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -


Now try that with a live anacharis under lights.


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## robert_jun

*Interesting new results*

Latest Test results just a bit over 24+ hours

Test results are not in the Aquarium but water placed into containers
- Ph in Aquarium tank is holding at 7.8 PH 80 hours + 

*Tap Water*
_Ph 7.4 out of the tap_
12 hours : ph 7.5
24+ hours : ph 7.5 tested with low range API PH
24+ hours : ph 7.8 tested with High Range API ph 

*Brita mixed with tap* 50%/50% 
_Ph - 6.8_
12 hours : ph 6.8
24+ hours : ph 7.3
24+ hours : ph below the color range of 8ph tested with the high range API ph

*Brita*
_6.2 Ph_
12 hours : ph 6.4
24+hours : ph 7.3

slight variations might also be from color discretion.


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## robert_jun

beaslbob said:


> Now try that with a live anacharis under lights.


Aqurium tank is holding steady which is good. 
at 7.8. 

:fish-in-bowl:


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## jclee

Wood and peat moss lower pH gradually, if you're still looking for natural options to slowly lower the pH. I will second jrman83's comments, that many fish can live comfortably outside of their recommended range; just make sure to drip acclimate them gradually, so that they don't face a shocking transition between the pet store and your tank's water.


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## robert_jun

jclee said:


> Wood and peat moss lower pH gradually, if you're still looking for natural options to slowly lower the pH. I will second jrman83's comments, that many fish can live comfortably outside of their recommended range; just make sure to drip acclimate them gradually, so that they don't face a shocking transition between the pet store and your tank's water.


I was just looking into peat moss on the internet just then, with my Driftwood in the tank and an addition of peat moss, I think that would suffice.
If I am holding at 7.8 now and the peat moss over time brings it down by .5 
would be 7.3 roughly.



jclee said:


> that many fish can live comfortably outside of their recommended range.


I agree but I would like to get the red cardinals which they say are a little more touchy then then the other tetra's with the water values.
and its also a challenge creating the water eco system chemistry for the the tank.

:betta:
:fish10:


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## jrman83

Now you make me want to get some and see how they do in my 8.2 water.


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## Alasse

My fish live in whatever PH i have at the time. I currently have high PH water (8 or so) and everything is living and breeding in it (tetras, angels, bristlenoses etc) with no problems.


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## robert_jun

Alasse said:


> My fish live in whatever PH i have at the time. I currently have high PH water (8 or so) and everything is living and breeding in it (tetras, angels, bristlenoses etc) with no problems.


which type of tetras do you have in there ?
:animated_fish_swimm


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> Now you make me want to get some and see how they do in my 8.2 water.


If you do let me know how you go ! 

I have two Aquarium shops near me,
*Store #1* has PH water at 6.8 ph / 7 ph
and 
*Store #2* Aquarium shop is 7.2 / 7.6 ph 

The second store i will buy from later down the track.

:fish-in-bowl:


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## beaslbob

robert_jun said:


> *Interesting new results*
> 
> Latest Test results just a bit over 24+ hours
> 
> Test results are not in the Aquarium but water placed into containers
> - Ph in Aquarium tank is holding at 7.8 PH 80 hours +
> 
> *Tap Water*
> _Ph 7.4 out of the tap_
> 12 hours : ph 7.5
> 24+ hours : ph 7.5 tested with low range API PH
> 24+ hours : ph 7.8 tested with High Range API ph
> 
> *Brita mixed with tap* 50%/50%
> _Ph - 6.8_
> 12 hours : ph 6.8
> 24+ hours : ph 7.3
> 24+ hours : ph below the color range of 8ph tested with the high range API ph
> 
> *Brita*
> _6.2 Ph_
> 12 hours : ph 6.4
> 24+hours : ph 7.3
> 
> slight variations might also be from color discretion.


Looks more like my 24 hour results.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> Now you make me want to get some and see how they do in my 8.2 water.


JR did you end up getting some cardinal tetras ? 

:betta:


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## jrman83

I just received an order of Cardinal tetras today. 10 total, all juvies. I was hoping for adult fish, but they did increase the order by a little to make up for it, I guess. I have been drip acclimating them for 3hrs now. The ph of the tank they are going in is 8.0. My ph out of my tap is 8.2, but there are two pieces of malaysian driftwood in the 29gal tank they are going in and it lowers the ph slightly.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> I just received an order of Cardinal tetras today. 10 total, all juvies. I was hoping for adult fish, but they did increase the order by a little to make up for it, I guess. I have been drip acclimating them for 3hrs now. The ph of the tank they are going in is 8.0. My ph out of my tap is 8.2, but there are two pieces of malaysian driftwood in the 29gal tank they are going in and it lowers the ph slightly.


ahhh awsome !! do you know what PH the water they were in when they arrived ? and how did the acclimating go ? did they survive ?? 

Rob.

:betta:


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## jrman83

They only told me that their tanks are between 7.5 and 7.8. Not sure which the tetras were in.

They survived acclimation. If they are going to die from Ph issues, I suspect that wont show at the earliest a couple of days from now..


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## James0816

Wow...that's pretty high for Cardinals.


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## jrman83

James0816 said:


> Wow...that's pretty high for Cardinals.


We'll see how it goes. Hopefully they will do fine.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> We'll see how it goes. Hopefully they will do fine.


keep us updated ! 

:fish10::betta:


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## flyin-lowe

When I first set up my 120g I was struggling with pH as well. Much like you mine would shoot up to over 8.2. The best advise I can give is to forget about it. As long as you acclimate the fish slowly they can survive in your pH range. I have angels, BN plecos, cardinal tetras, ottos, and corry cats and german blue rams that have all survived pH between 8.2 and 8.4. I added some driftwood thinking it would help with the pH. The tannins that are released from the driftwood are the chemicals that causes the pH to drop slightly. So if your wood is not turning your water a brown tea color then it won't be affecting your pH. I had three huge pieces of driftwood that initially had my water really stained. It still didn't make a noticeable difference. I finally added a product to remove the tannins because I myself didn't like the look. My RO water comes out at around 7 or just under and after 24 hours its back up over 8. The fish will much more prefer a constant pH then the ups and downs of you trying to manipulate it. Plus it is one less thing for you to stress over.


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## brimac40

Agreed . I have had cardinal tetras that have thrived in my tanks that run a little better than 8.0 . As long as they have been properly acclimated they will do fine . If you ask me , to many people sweat it over their pH , buying buffers and constantly tinkering with it trying to lower/raise it . I used to be one of them , stressing my fish needlessly . Ever since I have learned to live with it and my fish have done great , living long , healthy lives . I quit messing with the buffers and RO water and all the other tips and tricks I have read about to try to lower or raise my pH , needlessly spending money when it's just not needed . I only test my pH now just to make sure there are no spikes or drops in it , just as long as it is 8.0 or there about and staying steady then I am golden .


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## jrman83

My experience with my Malaysian driftwood is much different. I have 1 large and 2 medium sized pieces in my 125 and it has kept my Ph at the 7.6 range. It is 8.2 out of my tap (well water). I no longer have the stained water look.

I did loose 3 of the cardinals. Don't think it was Ph related.


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## Dmaaaaax

To outgas your water, put it in the pH tube and shake it vigorously. Then open the cap and let it stand for about 15min...forget overnight. This is getting rid of CO2.

Your pH can also fluctuate because of 2 other reasons:
1. Your tank is not cycled. See what is is once you have it fully cycled and stocked (fish and plants).
2. Your water might not be well buffered. See if you can test the KH and GH (carbonate and general hardness).

I buffer mine with chemicals, because I want a consitant pH with each water change. The key is to use both an acid and base combo so that it "buffers". This keeps the pH from shifting which you will see if you use pH down alone. I use Seachem's acid and akaline buffer. This also adds some KH and GH to my water, which the plants like. 

Fish can do well under daily pH and temperature swings. In the wild, rainfall in the Amazon causes massive change in water conditions once the run off from mountains hits the main basin. There colder rain water could lower the temperature by as much as 10C and pH can change from the change in mineral content and depth (trees that were once on dry land are now in the water). Some discus and tetras live in pH as low as 4.0 or less.

In a tank setting people with CO2 tanks see daily changes in pH of a 1.0 or more. When lights are off, CO2 is turned off and gases off, which causes the pH to rise. Then during the day when the CO2 is turned on, the pH can drop 1.0 or more. Plants in these type of tanks grow like crazy and the fish seem to always be healthy and happy.


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## flyin-lowe

jrman83 said:


> My experience with my Malaysian driftwood is much different. I have 1 large and 2 medium sized pieces in my 125 and it has kept my Ph at the 7.6 range. It is 8.2 out of my tap (well water). I no longer have the stained water look.
> 
> I did loose 3 of the cardinals. Don't think it was Ph related.


I might be wrong and if so someone feel free to correct me. But my understanding is the tannins are the chemicals that alter the pH. So if your dirft wood is not producing tannins it is something else that is altering your pH.


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## robert_jun

flyin-lowe said:


> I might be wrong and if so someone feel free to correct me. But my understanding is the tannins are the chemicals that alter the pH. So if your dirft wood is not producing tannins it is something else that is altering your pH.


with the drift wood in the tank now for 2 weeks, it has made my tank a tea color, which I like for a natural look.

PH is holding at 7.8 with out it, it was over 7.9/8. 

Have yet to add Peat Moss yet.

:fish10::betta:


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## jrman83

Cardinals and neons still doing well in the 8.2 water. The 3 fish I posted I lost was not all cardinals. It was 2 neons and 1 cardinal.


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## archer772

I have 24 cardinals, 4 angels, 4 ABN PLecos, 7 otos, 6 cories and 9 amano shrimp in PH of 8.0+/- for 8 months now. I started with 19 angels but thinned them down and had 2 breeding pairs in my tank so had to thin them down again and it appears all my fish are breeding.


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## flyin-lowe

archer772 said:


> I have 24 cardinals, 4 angels, 4 ABN PLecos, 7 otos, 6 cories and 9 amano shrimp in PH of 8.0+/- for 8 months now. I started with 19 angels but thinned them down and had 2 breeding pairs in my tank so had to thin them down again and it appears all my fish are breeding.


Archer you have great taste in fish. I have 7 angels, 10 corries, 12 ottos, 4 ABN plecos, 25 cardinals and 12 otto's in my 120g tank.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> Cardinals and neons still doing well in the 8.2 water. The 3 fish I posted I lost was not all cardinals. It was 2 neons and 1 cardinal.


ahhh this is good to hear ! I will attempt in another months time. 

:fish10::fish10:


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## robert_jun

Finally my freshwater tank has finally completed its nitrogen cycle ! 0 casualties 

might look into the red cardinals now PH is still around 7.7 - 7.9.

:fish10::fish10:
:fish-in-bowl:


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## jrman83

robert_jun said:


> Finally my freshwater tank has finally completed its nitrogen cycle ! 0 casualties
> 
> might look into the red cardinals now PH is still around 7.7 - 7.9.
> 
> :fish10::fish10:
> :fish-in-bowl:


Outstanding!! Cardinals will do fine in that water...just drip acclimate whatever you get.


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## NursePlaty

*If you want to lower the pH, just do what I do and mix Reverse Osmosis water with your tap water during water changes. They sell RO water at my Walmart at a fountain. I just bring my 5gallon jugs, fill it up, and bring them home. I believe it was only 33 cents per gallon. The pH of it is 6.0, KH and GH of it are both 0ppm. I mix 75% RO with 25% tap and sometimes 50/50.*


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## robert_jun

I have purchased some red cardinals, and have dripped acclimatised them. 
3 hours have passed and they seem to be doing fine there schooling close to the bottom of the tank, they look dwarfed to the black skirt tetras in the tank.


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## jrman83

That's good. I thought they were better in schools of 6 or more?


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## robert_jun

yeah I purchased 7 of the red Cardinals


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## jrman83

lol, okay. Some reason I was thinking 3. I see now it is 3 hours.


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## robert_jun

*Update* 

*Red Cardinals 
*
Update is 6 out of 7 cardinals have survived, the only reason why one of them had died which died with in the first 16 hours, was it looked like one of the black skirts had ago at trying to swallow one the cardinals from the rear end.

The rest are all happy. *w3

*Peat Moss*
I am also Trying to find some good peat moss from a local store.

I have purchased Uni Gro Premium organic peat moss. nothing on the bag claims it has fertilizer.

Though when I did some test results in a concentrate form, it has a high Ammonia reading, is this normal for all peat moss to have a trace of Ammonia ? or do I have the wrong peat moss.

I also tested the sphagnum peat moss which also had ammonia traces. 

Anyone have experience with this ?

:fish10::fish10:


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## jrman83

Some are using peat in their substrate. I planned on buying the peat that is specifically made to be used in filters. Just haven't gotten around to it.

I picked up 5 more Cards today. Been acclimating them the last 2hrs.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> Some are using peat in their substrate. I planned on buying the peat that is specifically made to be used in filters. Just haven't gotten around to it.
> 
> I picked up 5 more Cards today. Been acclimating them the last 2hrs.


Which peat is specifically made to be used in filters ?


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## jrman83

Fluval makes it. Maybe one or two other places that do. 
Amazon.com: Fluval Peat Granules, 500 gram (17.6 oz): Kitchen & Dining
You'll need to get a filter bag for this stuff. They have them at my local fish store.


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## archer772

There is also this 
Freshwater Aquarium Water Conditioner: Sera Super Peat
I believe most people are useing Canadian Sphagnum Peat under there substrate in planted tanks.


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## beaslbob

robert_jun said:


> *Update*
> 
> *Red Cardinals
> *
> Update is 6 out of 7 cardinals have survived, the only reason why one of them had died which died with in the first 16 hours, was it looked like one of the black skirts had ago at trying to swallow one the cardinals from the rear end.
> 
> The rest are all happy. *w3
> 
> *Peat Moss*
> I am also Trying to find some good peat moss from a local store.
> 
> I have purchased Uni Gro Premium organic peat moss. nothing on the bag claims it has fertilizer.
> 
> Though when I did some test results in a concentrate form, it has a high Ammonia reading, is this normal for all peat moss to have a trace of Ammonia ? or do I have the wrong peat moss.
> 
> I also tested the sphagnum peat moss which also had ammonia traces.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this ?
> 
> :fish10::fish10:


not familiar with Uni gro premium but what I use is sphagnum peat moss purchased in the large bales for about $11 or so. something like 2/3 cubic yard.
got mine from a local home depot.

Also have not tested for ammonia but my tanks which use it as the bottom of the substrate measure no ammonia. But that is also heavily planted so the plants sould be consuming any ammonia present from the moss.


The main difference I have measured is that both kh and gh have remain constant for over 2 years with the peat but rose with plain sand.


my .02


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## robert_jun

beaslbob said:


> not familiar with Uni gro premium but what I use is sphagnum peat moss purchased in the large bales for about $11 or so. something like 2/3 cubic yard.
> got mine from a local home depot.
> 
> Also have not tested for ammonia but my tanks which use it as the bottom of the substrate measure no ammonia. But that is also heavily planted so the plants sould be consuming any ammonia present from the moss.
> 
> 
> The main difference I have measured is that both kh and gh have remainee constant for over 2 years with the peat but rose with plain sand.
> 
> 
> my .02


*Quick test *

Is it possible you could grab that peat moss, say a hand full from the fresh bag you have and put it into a small dish of water, so the peat is of high concentration, and then do a quick ammonia check after 25 mins to see if gives off ammonia ? 

:fish bowl-3:


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## beaslbob

robert_jun said:


> *Quick test *
> 
> Is it possible you could grab that peat moss, say a hand full from the fresh bag you have and put it into a small dish of water, so the peat is of high concentration, and then do a quick ammonia check after 25 mins to see if gives off ammonia ?
> 
> :fish bowl-3:


I have the bale in storage. So I will if I get a chance.

It also would not surprise me.

But I did not measure ammonia in the newly setup tank. So any ammonia was being diluted and consumed by the plants immediately.

It might be faster for you to do a test with a 1g jar and some anacahris. It could take a little while for me to test.

FWIW fertz added for plant food are notorious for having ammonia in them.

my .02


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## robert_jun

Found a place that had sera peat granules. 

testing it out now  

:betta:


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## jrman83

robert_jun said:


> Found a place that had sera peat granules.
> 
> testing it out now
> 
> :betta:


How did this stuff work?


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> How did this stuff work?


I put some of the Peat Granules into a nylon bag, and placed them into my Marine 200 bio wheel filter.

Lowed PH by .3 -.4 so my Ph now is 7.2-7.6 range.

For water exchanges I have another bag I let soak in a bucket of water before putting the tap water into the tank, which brings the tap water down to 7.2-7.5 PH.

I would say it is working out just great  

I did a test and put the Sera Peat granules into a small dish, and they too showed low level signs of ammonia.

So the peat bag I got ( UNI GRO Peat Moss ) I boiled 4 cups worth and then did the same test. same level of ammonia. but just 1/10th the cost. no fertilizer. 

So I might make the switch to save on $$$$

Currently waiting on 5 more red cardinals to add to the tank to complete it !!.

I am happy that my tank is fully cycled which took around 7 weeks to fully complete and things are really stable.

I did take one black skirt out to treat for a fungi infection, and hes back in the tank now, and all healed.

current in my 20 gallon.
5 black skirt Tetras
6 red cardinal tetras
2 sunset ( yellow body red tail sort of thing cute little guys ) Dwarf gourmai 


:fish10::fish10::fish10:*w3


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## jrman83

Good to know that stuff works.

Think I'm going to let my cardinals go in my new 120. The CO2 pulls the ph down to 7.4 and there are already 5 neon tetras. Want to find out if Cardinals and Neons will school together or separate in a larger tank. In my 29, they don't have much of a choice.

Going to do some work on my 29 - the main reason I'm doing it.


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## Chillwill007

robert_jun said:


> current in my 20 gallon.
> 5 black skirt Tetras
> 6 red cardinal tetras
> 2 sunset ( yellow body red tail sort of thing cute little guys ) Dwarf gourmai
> 
> 
> :fish10::fish10::fish10:*w3


Got any pics of the tank with the red cardinals


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## robert_jun

Chillwill007 said:


> Got any pics of the tank with the red cardinals


Taking some pics now, be posted shortly !


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## robert_jun

Chillwill007 said:


> Got any pics of the tank with the red cardinals


as requested 











*w3:fish10::betta:


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## robert_jun

Black SKirts 



and one of the gourami's


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## jrman83

Cool pics.

You have neons also? The second pic you have labelled red cardinals looks like a neon to me (closest one). The red line on a cardinal goes the full length of it's body, only half for a neon. Other than that they look the same.


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## robert_jun

jrman83 said:


> Cool pics.
> 
> You have neons also? The second pic you have labelled red cardinals looks like a neon to me (closest one). The red line on a cardinal goes the full length of it's body, only half for a neon. Other than that they look the same.


yeah they are actually all red cardinals, just looks like that in the pic, I too thought the same when I seen the Pic.


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