# Help! My fish died!



## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Hi all, 

When I was a kid I had an aquarium and I remember how fun it was.

I recently purchased a Marineland 10 gallon aquarium which came with a cool Bio-Wheel filter which is cool, much quieter than my childhood aquarium.:fish-in-bowl:

I put gravel in the bottom, and 3 real water plants from the pet store, 1 of each kind. Not sure what kind they are, I asked the employee to pick plants that would work in a 10 gallon aquarium, he said these 3 would be good, so I got 1 of each. 

I filled the tank with tap water and put a teaspoon of the water conditioner that comes with the tank in there to condition the water. In retrospect I don't know if this stuff removes chlorine, I think it doesn't. So I probably put chlorine water in there. Oops! 

Anyway I got it full, with plants and gravel and a nice rock, and I put 2 small Black Mollies in there. They seemed happy and made themselves at home. They eat like they are starving but I only give them a tiny bit of food.

So now I had 2 fish
:fish10::fish10:

After a couple days everything seemed good and the Mollies seemed really active and good, so I went and bought some more fish. I bought 2 orange Mollies and 2 "dalmation" colored Mollies. About the same size as the first 2 fish.

Now I had 6 fish that all were acting hungry and lots of fun to watch!
:fish5::fish5::fish5::fish5::fish10::fish10:

The next morning after the 4 new fish were added, 1 of them was dead. Later that night, another was floating upside down but still alive, then died later that night. The next day the other 2 were dead. All 4 of the newer fish died within 2 days of buying them!

The original 2 black mollies however seem fine. It has been 3 days since the 4 fish all died. Back to only 2 fish!
:fish10::fish10:

Do you think I got a bad batch of fish? Every fish I bought that day died! But the 2 first black mollies didn't die, they are good. 

Should I go back and complain? Or did I maybe do something wrong? If the other fish died why didn't the first 2 die as well?

It has been 3 days since then, should I get some more fish and try again?

Help!*old dude

P.S. - I just remembered I had another question. I noticed that when I added the 4 fish that died, the 2 black mollies seemed to avoid them, and would just find a little "hole" or depression in the gravel, and just sit there on the bottom of the tank, like they were sleeping! They did this all the time. After all the other fish died and went to fish heaven, now the black mollies are spending less time sleeping on the bottom of the gravel. Why do they do this?


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

Its a common misconception that you can just buy a fish tank and toss fish in it. Im sure there are a number of things that you have done wrong starting with not Cycling the tank. Right now if i was you I would change 30-50% of the water and use some stress coat.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

mk4gti said:


> Its a common misconception that you can just buy a fish tank and toss fish in it. Im sure there are a number of things that you have done wrong starting with not Cycling the tank. Right now if i was you I would change 30-50% of the water and use some stress coat.


That's weird, I was just following the instruction booklet that came with the aquarium kit. It said to add water and add the water conditioner gel, set up the filter and heater, add gravel, then add fish! Didn't say anything about "cycling" whatever that is...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm guessing the conditioner you added sufficed in removing the chlorine in the water.

Hard to say what happened. Fish that die within a day or two of the fish store I don't account it as something wrong with anything of mine. Fish go through a lot to get to the stores and then some tanks they go to aren't the best.

One thing you should do is get some testing supplies. Your tank hasn't cycled and the only way to tell where it is at in that cycle is by testing the water. The plants will help as long as none of them are dying and creating ammonia in your tank. How much you feed can also create issues. Try getting an API mater test kit. A little on the expensive side but well worth it. Test your ammonia and nitrite levels and post back here your results.

Another thing is the fish you are picking. I love Mollies also, but unless you are getting just male fish, you run the chance of the reproducing and creating an overstocking issue. Mollies can have a lot of babies.

Search this site or the internet about the nitrogen cycle.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I'm guessing the conditioner you added sufficed in removing the chlorine in the water.
> 
> Hard to say what happened. Fish that die within a day or two of the fish store I don't account it as something wrong with anything of mine. Fish go through a lot to get to the stores and then some tanks they go to aren't the best.
> 
> ...


Oh wow! what are good fish for a small 10 gallon aquarium like this? I want somethign colorful and fun to look at!

I'll get that kit and post my numbers!

P.S. - not only the instructions booklet but also the employees at the pet store said I could add fish immediately !

Also, the guy above said to change 30% of the water out, does that mean I just dump out 30% of the water and fill it back up to the top with regular tap water? Or should I be using something else?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It's good to let things run for about 24hrs at least before adding fish. Cycling is a natural process that starts once an ammonia source (fish or other) is added.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

How many fish can I safely fit in a 10 gallon aquarium? My gf saw that someone said mollies will have babies and she says she wants 20 mollies!
:fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10::fish10:


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

Get a 5 gallon bucket and a hose. Try not to be too rough when u do water changes. Siphon some out, then pour some conditioned water back in.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Update:

I went and bought the API Master Test Kit!

But when I got home, another Molly was dead, one of the original 2 

Now I'm down to 1 fish alive!

The original 2 mollies came from a different pet store so I don't think this is a problem the fish had originally, it seems like my tank is killing them! Unless the new group gave the original 2 a disease that killed one of them within a couple days.

So, I followed all the instructions and tested the water. Here are the results:

pH	Over 7.6
High range pH	8.2
Ammonia	0.05ppm
Nitrite	0 ppm
Nitrate	0 ppm


Ok so... I don't understand! Aren't all of those numbers fine? What is killing my fish???

By the way, water temperature is 85 degrees Fahrenheit

I'm surprised ammonia is not higher, is that because of the real plants, the bio wheel, both, neither?


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Another update - 

You know how I started with 3 water plants? Well 2 of them sort of have a "bulb" or root mass, but the 3rd one does not.

It was called "frill" in Petsmart. I don't know the real name. I googled around and it looks like other people say it's a type of Myriophyllum.

Anyway this plant has 5 or 6 stems, with frilly leaves, and no roots that I can see. I didn't notice this at first, but the plant came with about a 6 inch long, 1/4 inch wide strip of lead wrapped around the stems, holding them together and keeping it on the bottom.

Is it possible that having this lead in the water could poison and kill the fish? Or is lead OK in the fish tank?

The lead looked pretty oxidized and covered with black junk. All in all, the water plants at Petsmart don't seem in very good condition or healthy.

I spoke with an employee there, who seemed really knowledgeable (cute too!). She said the reason their plants are in poor shape is because they don't have any fish to supply their nutrient needs 

Anyway... Just to be safe, and following some advice I read online about this plant, I removed the lead strip and separated the strands, and planted each one separately around the tank, instead of all in a bunch. I read somewhere that the plant would thrive better this way than in a bunch.

I'd appreciate any advice! The aquarium looks nice plant-wise but I don't want to keep having fish die  I'm down to 1 fish!


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

So since the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are all low, should I put in more fish now?

I don't understand how ammonia can be 0 ppm when there were 6 fish in there a few days ago. 

Same goes for the nitrate and nitrite levels. What the heck could be going on?


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## mielikki (Aug 29, 2009)

your pH is (was?) much too high, and the water temp is too high, too. Those have to be adjusted before you put in more fish, especially if you are going to get more Mollies. Incidentally, Mollies also like a little aquarium salt in their water.
Google fish tank cycling, or find the article in this forum, it's there, and explains everything. 
There are also products on the market that will chemically cycle your tank, ask the cute employee about them. As far as the plants, there are fertilizer and nutrient tabs you can get for their health, too. Keeping a tank, especially a small tank, isn't really as simple as what people expect, sometimes. You may need to be patient for awhile longer before you add more fish, so that when you do add them, they will survive...


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## RhumbaGirl (Aug 1, 2010)

when eventually you do put more fish in your tank you might consider zebra danios. They are very hardy and are quite active and fun to watch. They get lonely if you only put one in though so 2 or 3 would be best. I would still wait a while (couple weeks at least) if I were you so your tank has some time to establish itself and go through the cycle.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

mielikki said:


> your pH is (was?) much too high, and the water temp is too high, too. Those have to be adjusted before you put in more fish, especially if you are going to get more Mollies. Incidentally, Mollies also like a little aquarium salt in their water.
> Google fish tank cycling, or find the article in this forum, it's there, and explains everything.
> There are also products on the market that will chemically cycle your tank, ask the cute employee about them. As far as the plants, there are fertilizer and nutrient tabs you can get for their health, too. Keeping a tank, especially a small tank, isn't really as simple as what people expect, sometimes. You may need to be patient for awhile longer before you add more fish, so that when you do add them, they will survive...



What temperature do Mollies need?

I wonder, is it possible too hot temperatures might have killed my fish?

I am wondering if I screwed up... Let me explain...

Where I live, it is often 115 degrees Fahrenheit outside. When I go to work, I usually turn the air conditioning up to 85 degrees to save power.

So, I am sure that the temperature stays about 85 degrees inside during the day. I usually have the aquarium light on during the day too. If the ambient temperature in the room is 85 degrees, which you say is already too hot, then isn't it quite possible that the water gets even hotter than that? I mean, with the light on, that produces some heat right?

I have no idea what the water temperature is during the day because I don't get home from work until well after dark, when things have cooled off. I wonder if during the day, the water is getting higher than 85 degreees, and I didn't even realize it. How hot would the water have to get to start killing off the fish?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Sounds like you got a "bunch" plants and it seems to be doing fine. Your high pH is because the plants are consumeing carbon dioxide which raises pH. Ditto for the bio wheel also.

I use 6 anacharis, 6 vals, 4 small potted plants, and a single amazon sword for my 10g planted. With a sand substrate but also recommend peat moss in the substrate.

what I do is setup the tank with plants and let the tank set a week. then add a single platy or guppy or neon. then not add food for a week. then add 2 female platys or gupies or 4 neons. The start feeding a single flake per day.

What I thin you did was to not have enough plants (put you did have some which is good), plus you added the fish to soon. Also I have found the mollys do much better with some salt in the tank and in fact I use mollys to establish my saltwater tanks. But in pure FW and especially with no plants I have problems with a cottony fungus. but the loss of so many mollys so soon indicate to me the tank was just not ready to support that fish.

So give it a littly while, add more plants, add fish slowly, feed lighter and you should be off and running.


my .02


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.

So I should probably get some more plants? Any ideas where I can look for good plants?

The plants at the local pet stores I have seen have looked pretty terrible. Lots of brown, and black spots, look half dead, etc. Even the employee I talked to said their plants were in bad shape always.


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## mielikki (Aug 29, 2009)

you can check your tank water temperature with a thermometer, to check your water temp during the day. 64-82 degrees is what they like/tolerate. I keep my freshwater tank somewhere around 76 degrees. I am not sure how hot your water would get, or would need to be before they killed the fish. I actually think they might have died more related to the youth of the tank. However, it could have been a combination of heat/no cycling that did them in. Is your tank near a window?
Planted tanks are really nice, the plants will also decrease any algae growth in your tank. You can actually order some online, or try some other pet shops near you for more stock. Besides that, fish love the plants!
Have you considered putting a betta, and an oto in your tank? Betta's are beautiful, and would absolutely THRIVE in a planted 10 gallon tank. Their colors get nice and bright when they are in a roomy, happy tank. And the Oto will be the cleanup crew 
Just something else to consider...


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok, you know how I tested the water, and ammonia was almost 0 ppm? (between 0 and 0.05) And there was only 1 Molly left?

Well, I did that test the day after the other fish died. 

I figured, the water seems fine, so I bought 3 tiny guppies and added them to the tank, and I tested the water today again.

Now I think I know why the other fish died! Testing the water today, after the new guppies being there for 1 day, now the ammonia level has risen to 0.5 ppm - *that's 10 times higher than before adding the 3 guppies, and they are much smaller fish and less number than what I had in there before!*

Based on this new data, and how quickly the ammonia level shot up, I think it's very possible that high ammonia levels killed the other fish. Then once they died and weren't producing ammonia, the levels dropped down really quickly (maybe because of the plants?) and that's why the level was so low when I measured it.

Does this sound likely? This makes sense to me, it just means I need to let my tank finish its cycle... And do some water changes meanwhile so the 3 guppies don't die! Right?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just keep track of ammonia and do partial water changes to keep it under control. I tried to keep mine at 1 or below when I used fish to cycle a tank, but mine soared to 4ppm. Check for nitrites also. Nitrates should show after a couple of weeks, but possibly sooner.


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## Brittrugger (May 30, 2010)

Very likely that is exactly what happened before, sounds like you are starting to get the idea though. Keep a close eye on the ammonia levels and do water changes every other day or anytime there is a dangerous spike in ammonia or if you get a spike in nitrites (good sign though as this means you're cycling).


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## brimac40 (Jan 11, 2010)

Your pH is fine and I would not mess with it , when you start fiddling with it , trying to lower/raise it all you are doing is adding undo stress on your fish because every time you make a water change you will have to lower the pH once again to match the pH level that was in there before . Most FW fish , if acclimated correctly can live in a wide range of pH parameters . A pH of 7.6 is not bad at all , I would love to have that pH as mine runs a little better than 8.0 but my fish have thrived for years in it. Remember a steady pH is better than a fluctuating pH by constantly tinkering with it to get the so-called proper pH.


But you are now getting on the right track now . Keep testing your water parameters and doing PWCs' . Once your tank is cycled you can start adding more fish slowly . When the store employee told you that you could add fish the same day you set up your aquarium there's something you need to remember about many of these pet store employees , many have no idea what they are talking about (more so for those big box stores like Petco/petsmart) and they are out to make money .


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks, minor correction though: pH was not 7.6, it was 8.2. I was just saying it was higher than 7.6, the low-range scale doesn't go higher than 7.6 but when I used the high-range test it showed pH of 8.2.
:fish-in-bowl:


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

So what level is the max safe ammonia level that it shouldn't get any higher than?

Also, I added more plants, some anacharis. Petco had much healthier and greener looking plants than Petsmart, whose plants were very brown and had black spots and lots of them were dead.

Does this look like a good amount of plants?


n683778445_1544608_5109265

Also, I lowered the water level so that more air would get into the water to help with the cycling, and also I'm leaving the cover off my filter, won't this help get the bacteria to grow faster?


aquarium2


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good looking setup.

I don't think you will notice any difference in time to cycle with or without the cover on. I only tried to keep my ammonia levels below 1ppm. In the beginning it was pretty easy keeping it at .25 or below until it soared to 4ppm in a day or two. 1ppm was all that was reasonably attainable without doing a really large water change for my tank.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Update: 

The guppies and mollies are looking great, and I'm keeping ammonia down to safe levels by doing partial water changes, replacing with water conditioned with API stresscoat+, which removes chlorine/chloramines and conditions the water.

Except one guppy. He looks like he is either injured or diseased. He had a red splotch under one side of him, sort of under the gill on one side. The side fin on that side of his body barely moves. He spends most of his time hiding or floating inside the plants. Sometimes I walk in the room and he's swimming around, but he sees me and darts back down to hide in the grass again.

His abdomen looks swolen near the red splotch too and it looks like some of the skin is sloughing off there too. He really seems like he's hurt and scared, I don't konw what happend. I think he MIGHT have been like this from the pet store without me noticing.

The rest of the fish look happy, swimming around aimlessly looking for food all the time, and picking at the water plants.

What would you suggest? It has been 3 days now and he's still alive but I wonder if he is going to make it. 

Should I try a hospital tank with some salt or something to treat his wound?


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

I looked at this guppy closer and I think he's about close to death 










Any idea what this ailment is?

None of the other fish show these symptoms.


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## mcook33 (Aug 9, 2010)

You will never be there until the tank goes through the cycle.Please slow down go at it a little slower and add fish a little less at the time.You have got to get the cycle going.If it does not run, all you will do is fight a cloudy tank.I would do a partial water change refill condition the water introduce a couple of fish and allow them to help you through the cycle.There are around four stages for the cycle to complete itself.The stages are as foiiows...............................



Some call it the biological cycle, the nitrification process, new tank syndrome or even the start-up cycle. They all are referring to the same cycle - The Nitrogen Cycle. This very important cycle is the establishment of beneficial bacteria in the aquarium and in the filter media that will help in the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and then the conversion of nitrite to nitrates. Check out the aquarium water chemistry page (on the left) for more information on these terms. 

This process can take from 2 weeks to 2 months or longer to complete. It is vital for anyone planning on keeping aquarium fish to understand this process. Learning about this process will help you to be successful in keeping fish and it should definitely improve your chances when keeping tropical fish. The best way to monitor the nitrogen cycle is to purchase an aquarium test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph. 

Test your aquarium water every other day and write down your readings. You will first see ammonia levels rising. A few weeks or so later you should see the nitrite levels rising and the ammonia levels dropping. Finally, after a few more weeks you should see the nitrate levels rising and the nitrite levels dropping. When you no longer detect ammonia or nitrites but you can detect nitrates you can assume that it is safe to add your tropical fish. 



Photo Credit: Ilmari Karonen 
Nitrogen Cycle Stages
Stage 1
Ammonia is introduced into the aquarium via tropical fish waste and uneaten food. The tropical fish waste and excess food will break down into either ionized ammonium (NH4) or un-ionized ammonia (NH3). Ammonium is not harmful to tropical fish but ammonia is. Whether the material turns into ammonium or ammonia depends on the ph level of the water. If the ph is under 7, you will have ammonium. If the ph is 7 or higher you will have ammonia. 

Stage 2
Soon, bacteria called nitrosomonas will develop and they will oxidize the ammonia in the tank, essentially eliminating it. The byproduct of ammonia oxidation is Nitrites. So we no longer have ammonia in the tank, but we now have another toxin to deal with - Nitrites. Nitrites are just as toxic to tropical fish as ammonia. If you have a test kit, you should be able to see the nitrite levels rise around the end of the first or second week. 

Stage 3
Bacteria called nitrobacter will develop and they will convert the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates are not as harmful to tropical fish as ammonia or nitrites, but nitrate is still harmful in large amounts. The quickest way to rid your aquarium of nitrates is to perform partial water changes. Once your tank is established you will need to monitor your tank water for high nitrate levels and perform partial water changes as necessary. There are other methods to control nitrates in aquariums besides water changes. For freshwater fish tanks, live aquarium plants will use up some of the nitrates. In saltwater fish tanks, live rock and deep sand beds can have anaerobic areas where denitrifying bacteria can breakdown nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas that escapes through the water surface of the aquarium. 

Getting The Nitrogen Cycle Started
There are two ways to get the aquarium cycle started, either with fish or without fish. 

Starting The Nitrogen Cycle With Fish
This is not the preferred way to get the nitrogen cycle started because the fish are being exposed to ammonia and nitrites during this process. Many fish can not and will not make it through the cycling process. Often times the fish become stressed and fish disease starts to break out. I wonder what percentage of disease is caused by the cycling of new aquariums?

Certain species are hardier than others and seem to tolerate the start-up cycle better than others. For freshwater tanks, the zebra danio is a very hardy fish that many use to get the nitrogen cycle started. For saltwater tanks, some have reported success using damselfish to get the process started. Again, using fish to cycle is not a good idea and you may be throwing your money (on dead fish) out the window. There is a better way. Read on, young grasshopper.

Starting The Nitrogen Cycle Fishless
There are a few different ways to get this process started. To easily get an ammonia reading from your tank water try the Seachem Ammonia Alert. It sticks inside the tank and has a circle that changes color depending on the ammonia levels in the tank. 

Option 1:
Using Fish Food
Drop in a few flakes every 12 hours. As the food decomposes it will release ammonia. You will have to continue to "feed" the tank throughout the process to keep it going.

Option 2:
Use a small piece of raw fish or a raw shrimp
Drop a 2 inch by 1 inch chunk of raw fish or a raw shrimp into the tank. As it decomposes it will release ammonia into the tank.

Option 3:
Use 100% pure ammonia.
Using a dropper, add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water. If you don't get an ammonia reading with your test kit, add some more drops until you start to see an ammonia reading. Keep track of how many drops you've used so you can repeat this process daily. Continue to dose the tank with ammonia until you start to get nitrite readings with your test kit. Once you can detect nitrites you should only add 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water, or if you added more drops originally to get an ammonia reading cut the amount of drops used in half. Continue this process daily until you get nitrate readings with your test kit. Do a 30% water change and your tank is ready.

Option 4:
Use gravel and/or filter media from an established and cycled tank
This is the best and fastest way to go. This will seed the tank with all of the necessary bacteria for the nitrogen cycle. "Feed" the tank daily with flake food until you are getting nitrate readings. Depending on how fast you were able to get the gravel and filter media into your tank, you may be getting nitrate readings in only a day or two. There are some drawbacks to this method. Ask your source if they have recently used any copper medications in the tank. If they have and you are planning to have invertebrates in the tank you should probably not use this method. Invertebrates will not tolerate copper. Get a copper test kit to determine if it's safe to use.

Option 5:
Using live rock in Saltwater Tanks
The use of live rock in saltwater tanks has really taken off over the past few years. The reason for this is because it is one of the best forms of biological filtration available for saltwater tanks. The shape the rock is in when you get it will determine how long the nitrogen cycle will take. See step 7 on the saltwater setup page for more information on live rock.

Option 6:
Use Colonize by Dr. Foster and Smith - claims to colonize your water with the necessary bacteria needed to get the cycle going along with detoxifying ammonia so it doesn't harm the fish. To be used at the start of the tank setup and whenever you add new fish to your tank.

Another bacteria culture product is Tetra SafeStart. People have reported success on the forum with using Tetra SafeStart. Do a quick search on the forum for other members' input.

Use Instant Ocean BIO-Spira for Saltwater Tanks made by Marineland (the freshwater version may have been discontinued). This product claims to contain some patent pending species of nitrifying bacteria that will cycle your tank in 24 hours. Some of the FishLore forum members have tried it and it sounds like it is legitimate. It is kind of expensive, but if you already have fish in your tank and they are suffering through the cycle, you may want to check this stuff out. 1 ounce of this product is supposed to treat a 30 gallon freshwater tank. There are both freshwater and saltwater versions of Bio-spira. Please let us know if you use this and if it works for you by submitting comments below. 
Once the cycle has started only add one or two fish at a time. Wait a couple of weeks before adding more fish. This will give your tank the time it needs to catch up with the increased bio-load.
Speeding Up the Cycling Process
There are things you can do to speed along the process of cycling your aquarium. 

Increase the temperature of your aquarium water to 80°F-82°F (27°C-28°C) 
Get some beneficial bacteria colonies. Borrow some gravel from an established and cycled aquarium. If you have another tank with an extra filter you can use it. If you have a really nice friend with an established and cycled aquarium, ask if you can have one of their used filter media. It will be loaded with the good bacteria that we are looking for. 
There are products on the market that claim to introduce the beneficial bacteria. For more information, check out products like Bio-spira and Tetra SafeStart in option 6 above. There are many more products entering the market that contain the beneficial bacteria necessary to seed your tank. Between live rock (for saltwater aquariums) and the bottled bacteria being readily available, there really is no excuse to make fish suffer through a cycle. That want be healthy for your fish.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I would have more plants but actually your tank looks great.

I would just feed lightly like every other day just a flake or two.

And just let things settle down.

After a month or so the plants will have expanded to handle more bioload.

Sorry for your losses. It happens to all of us.


my .02


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Good news!

Looking around other aquarium forums, I was able to find someone who lives near me, and he kindly provided me with a well-used and very dirty bacteria-laden filter sponge from his established tank, which I just hung in my tank! Let the bacteria breeding begin! lol...

My fish will really be thanking him! They have been putting up with 2ppm ammonia levels for the last few days! 

I'm sure they will be much happier in a few days with the new bacteria 

Once the levels stabilize and the bacteria is established, I'm going to get a couple more guppies, a few more plants, and then I will really be happy with things!


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## Absolome (Sep 1, 2010)

Oh man, I haven't even started out my tank yet and this is scaring me. I am so glad I did massive loads of research before even looking into buying the tank 

Knowing me, I'll probably have my plants and fish species and numbers all planned out before I even buy the tank though, let alone knowing how to cycle and plant etc. the tank.

Good luck! remember that when adding fish, don't add them in straight with the store water, hold the bag in the water and wait for the fish to get used to the temperature, than add some of your tank water to the bag so it will get used to the water chemistry, do this a few times every 10-15 minutes. and then net the fish out. Never introduce store water to your tank (it may be unhealthy and contain pathogens)

If someone could check this and make sure I'm 100% right that would be nice, I haven't done this before, so everything I say is from research only!


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Well there is an even better way called drip-acclimating. I know about it now but unfortunately for my fish, I didn't know it when I bought them lol...

I'm glad I found this forum and others for information, because so far the instructions that come with the aquarium and the things people at the pet store tell you are usually wrong.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Absolome said:


> Oh man, I haven't even started out my tank yet and this is scaring me. I am so glad I did massive loads of research before even looking into buying the tank
> 
> Knowing me, I'll probably have my plants and fish species and numbers all planned out before I even buy the tank though, let alone knowing how to cycle and plant etc. the tank.
> 
> ...


Don't make it too hard. Just stock the tank with a mix of fast growing and slower growing plants. Wait a week. add a single fish. wait a week. add more fish and start feeding a single flake per day. (and have some peat moss in the substrate).

I used that method for decades before I ever measured a single thing. Tanks ran for up to 8 years with no water changes and no mechanical filters.

Can't get any easier then that. *old dude

Still just my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just remember with drip acclimating you still net your fish out. Both methods work. With 2ppm I would do a partial water change. It may still take a few days to establish the new bacteria and you may not see any changes for longer still. Have you been able to detect anything other than ammonia? Nitrite, nitrate?


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## JOMA (Jul 23, 2010)

GREAT WEBSITE FOR NEWBS! :Information on Setting Up Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Fish Tanks, Fish Bowls, Aquariums, Aquarium Filters, Aquarium Heaters, Choosing Fish, Aquarium Information


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Well the new bacteria has been in there for a day or two now and the ammonia levels were still high (staying at 2 ppm). 

I guess the new bacteria is still getting established and/or hasn't had time to lower the ammonia. 

I felt sorry for my fish in 2ppm ammonia water so I did a partial water change like you suggested (did about 50%), which brought the ammonia level down to 1 ppm. 

I'm going to check nitrites / nitrates right now and see if I have any yet.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

OK I just tested my levels... This is a bit different! I wonder if you can explain these results...

Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - *5ppm*

Huh? 5ppm nitrates, not 0? Why would that be the case, when nitrites are 0ppm, and ammonia has not fallen on its own at all? (only fell when I did water changes)

Nitrates were always 0ppm before, but I haven't checked nitrates or nitrites for about a week. A week ago they tested both 0ppm.

Interesting note - In the last few days, my plants have suddenly started to really POP! Before this week they looked duller, like they weren't too healthy, now suddenly they look noticeably greener. The anacharis especially greened up and looks awesome right now, just bright green.

Could this improved plant color be in response to the rise in nitrates, and fish poop starting to accumulate?

Also, the millfoil (if that's what it is) has grown, I can tell it's bigger and more spread out. Another fun thing is that every stalk of millfoil has started sending down tiny hairlike roots, toward the gravel. At least, I think they are roots.

Anyway, things are starting to happen with the plants finally, and it's cool. Also, I don't know if this is plausible, but it seems like the fish are more active and perky since this morning's water change (2ppm ammonia -> 1ppm ammonia, maybe they feel better now). The water remains crystal clear too, which makes me a little worried because I thought I should see cloudiness due to bacterial bloom. Maybe it still hasn't started to cycle even with the seed bacteria?

Another side note - I have started using salt in my water, adding it at a concentration of 1 teaspoon per gallon on each water change. The plants don't seem to have been negatively affected, in fact like I said, they look greener. I was worried the salt might hurt the plants but it doesn't look that way, and the fish seem happy.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

Icanman said:


> P.S. - not only the instructions booklet but also the employees at the pet store said I could add fish immediately !


Why why why why why why. There should be more pride in your job then just sending pets too a certain death. This happens way too much.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Just thought I would post an update on my levels.

Yesterday:
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 5ppm

Today:
Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm

No water change between readings. 

So, do I have an unusual cycle going on due to the seed bacteria I was given? Looks like ammonia is finally starting to fall, but nitrites are not rising at all.

Also added a few more plants today, trying to suck up some of that nitrate...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I never saw anything for nitrites when I cycled with fish. Looks like you're almost done there.


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## Icanman (Aug 26, 2010)

Quick update:

Ammonia level are now 0ppm!

All I can say is, WOW! Using seed bacteria from an established tank really does wonders!

Just a recap:

I added the seed bacteria, and nothing happened for 2 days, ammonia level stayed the same. Then, after those first 2 days of no change, suddenly within only 36 hours, ammonia levels went like this:
0 hours: 1ppm
24 hours: 0.25ppm
36 hours: 0ppm

Pretty cool


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If your nitrites are 0 you are probably done. Give it a day or two and test everything again before adding any fish. Just remember it's a small tank and 1-2 fish in a week would be all I did and you already need to be concerned about overstocking.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

If I read correctly your plants started to pop, green up and so on then the ammonia went down. Perhaps that is why I wait a week before adding fish.


What may have happened is the plants has a little shock, adjusted, then took off consuming the ammonia.

IMHO 0 ammoina, nitrites but some nitrates in a planted tank is not a sign the nitrogen cycle is almost done. Just a sign the plants are consuming any ammonia the bacteria has not reduced. When nitrAtes drop down then the bacteria has built up and is consuming the ammonia and the plants are consuming the nitrates. That is a sign of a mature (and stable) tank.


my .02


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