# My Red Devil look sick to you.



## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

I posted this in the cichlid forum, but thought I try here to see if I can get a little more feedback. My 10-11" Red Devil hasn't been eating for the last two days, and displaying little energy - his fins are down most the time. I don't see anything on him that would indicate any disease, but something is wrong. My water reading are as they should be.. I've done a 50% WC added some aquarium salt, and Pimafix. Any thoughts would be appreciated..


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Constipated??? Parasite??? It sure looks depressed. Hope you figure it out soon


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

That's what I'm thinking, I stop feeding, and been trying to give him a pea or two, but he's not eating. I have yet to cure a fish from this.. Don't believe the Pimafix will work - Going to try Jungle tablets. I'm going feel real bad if I lose him.. He was in a 30g for a while, and finally upgraded him to the 75g about a month ago. He was so happy until a few days ago. I hope it's not too late. He still attacking anything I put in the tank (net, gravel cleaner etc)


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

I just responded on your cichlid question and here are the answers. I am going to stick to this one now okay? I would quit throwing meds at an unknown problem as that creates more confusion in the tank realy. Also, you really need to flush the Pimafix from the tank, before adding any other meds. That can kill the fish. The AQ salt is also a medication and you are now really polluting that environment. Is he showing signs of bloat? Is he looking puffy? He can go without food for a few days and be fine let his gut sort this out. Check his gill area do you see anything in them? Use a flashlight. I would go with pristine water and a moderate amount of AQ salt in a soak performed in a separate bucket. I would seriously flush that tank water out by doing a series of large water changes while he is in a separate container. Then reacclimate him to the tank. Do the salt soaks 3 times a day. Do you know the amount of AQ to use? Just trying to help.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Could it be his age? If he is older, maybe the change to a new tank was just to much for him. Sure hope you can help him.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Farm said:


> I just responded on your cichlid question and here are the answers. I am going to stick to this one now okay? I would quit throwing meds at an unknown problem as that creates more confusion in the tank realy. Also, you really need to flush the Pimafix from the tank, before adding any other meds. That can kill the fish. The AQ salt is also a medication and you are now really polluting that environment. Is he showing signs of bloat? Is he looking puffy? He can go without food for a few days and be fine let his gut sort this out. Check his gill area do you see anything in them? Use a flashlight. I would go with pristine water and a moderate amount of AQ salt in a soak performed in a separate bucket. I would seriously flush that tank water out by doing a series of large water changes while he is in a separate container. Then reacclimate him to the tank. Do the salt soaks 3 times a day. Do you know the amount of AQ to use? Just trying to help.


Thanks - I must have missed your response - I'll flush the tank, and put him back in his 30g tank while I do that...


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Hmm. His colors look off. I agree with farm, The meds could be a problem. You really have to target them.
I have no idea if Pimafix is a good anti-fungal, but I see no fungus. Here, I would immediately look up Oodinium (velvet disease) a parasite that can fade a fish like that - see if the images you find correspond to anything on the fish. Check along the spine behind the head with a good flashlight. 
Other than that, it seems like a wait and see after the meds are at least reduced in the water column. It'll take time to eliminate them. If it is Oodinium sp parasites though, those meds will probably not go well with the effective treatments.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

When I replied last time, I just got home and didn't get a chance to look at my guy - He looks much better today. He always recognizes me and did his normal glass dance. I'm not willing to move him right now, because that always stresses him out. He's the only one in the 75g tank so I did another 50-60% WC to flush out some of the medication. I use to regularly put aquarium salt in the tank doing my weekly WCs. Read somewhere it helps relieve stress. I stopped when I read somewhere it didn't. So I decided to do it every now and then. Haven't used salt in months. I've been doing regularly WCs since he's been under the weather. He always loves when I change the water. He still attacked the gravel cleaner as usual, so that's hope. 

He's always been a picky eater, won't eat anything but the Large Cichlids Gold Pellet Fish Food by Hikari. He only eat about 4-5 of them once a day. I was glad he ate a little Metrodidazole & garlic flakes today, but I'm hoping that's because he getting hungry. I'm leaning toward Vreugy 1st comment about being constipated. 

As far as his color, it always changes from light to red spots like the picture. I believe that's the way he expresses his moods. I got him when he was 2 years old, about 6 months ago. So he's not that old. They can live to be 15 years old. I'm hoping my prayers were answered, and he pulls through.. I'll probably do another WC tomorrow. 

Thanks as always people I really appreciate you.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

With all due respect, you are quick with the medications. Please - if you have used the medicated food, it should be his main food for two weeks. The last thing you want is a metro resistant bacteria running in him, and using antibiotics without a set, disciplined pattern could create that. 
You hit him with pimafix, salt, garlic and metro - that's an onslaught. Once you have used metro, stay the course all the way.
He does communicate with colour, and he is smart enough to have something to say.
Have you tested your water hardness? The species originates in Nicaragua, which puts it over limestone and in quite hard water. It will have adaptations to that, and while soft water fish generally can transition (but not breed) in hard water, hard water fish in soft water will be pale, lethargic and have potential kidney problems. Evolution has tuned their bodies to need minerals in the water. Aquarium salt is expensive salt - it is not a mineral they need but it will add to the hardness. You might want to explore your basic tapwater. Locally, it varies in hardness with the seasons, and I harden it for livebearers from the same general ecological region as your Red Devil.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

Glad to hear that he is looking better. Unfortunately I must agree with Navigator Black and please take this as help so that your fish may live out his 15 years. Yes, you are correct that his color does reflect his health and emotions. I would continue the water changes as you are doing them. And with that said I would like to know your water hardness... do you hae a way to test for that? He may enjoy the large fresh w/c's due to the fact that with each change you are remineralizing the tank a bit. Tap water does fluctuate by season and our counties do change their chemical additives as well without notice to the public. He is a beauty of a RD and I do have a soft spot for these big guys. Very happy to hear you have gotten him into such a wonderful new home! Looking forward to hearing about him more.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Guys, I will test the hardness in a few minutes. 

I agree with your comments about me being quick with the meds, I'm working on that. I really didn't considered the aquarium salt, and the pimafix as serious meds, since it's also used as preventive remedy. Also, with no disrespect, most natural suggested remedies never work well for me in the past. Might be my fault for not recognizing the symptoms soon enough..hard to say. Researching will give you many different remedies and like I've said before - the rare times my guys get sick, I've never been successful with any cures.. Only sick fish I've had were mostly community fish, and it was usually something I did wrong when I first started this hobby back up a couple years ago. I have 5 successful tanks, not counting my hospital and feeder quarantine tank. I credit this forum for that, along with some other fish keepers I've met at my LFS. I always get good advice here.

Anyway, back to Big Red, he actually appears normal except for a few flashes every now and then. I did intend to feed him the med food for 7 days as recommended on the label. I was leaning towards constipation, or some kind of internal parasites. The med flakes seem like a good option. He only ate a few before spitting it out. 

I did another 40% WC, and believe most of the meds have been flushed - I will do them every other day until I'm certain he's well. I'll post sometime later my results. Thanks again.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Sorry for the delay in getting back - very busy with real world stuff - but you're right, my water has turned a little hard both GH and KH were in the 100-200 (11-8) - I got a lot of mopani driftwood hanging around - will put a few logs in his tank.. What do you guys use to soften up your water? 

BTW: Big Red looks hungry, and appears quite normal. I think he's tired of these flakes.. I'll stay the course a few more days before I give him some real food. Thoughts?


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## treliantf (Oct 10, 2014)

navigator black said:


> With all due respect, you are quick with the medications. Please - if you have used the medicated food, it should be his main food for two weeks. The last thing you want is a metro resistant bacteria running in him, and using antibiotics without a set, disciplined pattern could create that.
> You hit him with pimafix, salt, garlic and metro - that's an onslaught. Once you have used metro, stay the course all the way.
> He does communicate with colour, and he is smart enough to have something to say.
> Have you tested your water hardness? The species originates in Nicaragua, which puts it over limestone and in quite hard water. It will have adaptations to that, and while soft water fish generally can transition (but not breed) in hard water, hard water fish in soft water will be pale, lethargic and have potential kidney problems. Evolution has tuned their bodies to need minerals in the water. Aquarium salt is expensive salt - it is not a mineral they need but it will add to the hardness. You might want to explore your basic tapwater. Locally, it varies in hardness with the seasons, and I harden it for livebearers from the same general ecological region as your Red Devil.


Good suggestions/practices for all. Regarding metronidazole (metro) in specific, this is a potent antibiotics works on anaerobic infections but ineffective to most other. You are rolling a dice to use unless you know what's making the fish sick.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

I understand. My guy is doing well, and back to biting my hand every chance he gets. He's a nasty one...but he's my guy. Thanks for all your suggestions. I appreciate it.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

is he looking better?


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

100% - He's doing very well, I'm still doing 30% WC, no meds, 3 please pcs of mopani wood to help with the hardness - dare I say say it, but I believe he's Healed. 

He's mad at me tho, every time I come near the tank he's in attack mode, he will not let me play with him like my Flower Horn. He'll come around, he knows I love him. ? - Thanks guys, appreciate you.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

That is so great to hear. Perhaps those are love bites he is giving you? You are an excellent fish owner and before tossing anything in your water just jump on and talk to your fish friends. It is why you are part of a forum. Thank you for the update.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

any more pics?


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