# Changing filter type in existing tank...



## thriftygranny (Sep 3, 2012)

My FW community tank has been set up for 3 months now. I had very little extra money at the time I set it up so I simply used what I had on hand. That means that the undergravel filter went into the tank. I'm now in a position to upgrade the filter and was considering a Fluval underwater U4.
When I set up the tank it was pushed up against the wall with only an inch of clearance so a HOB filter is not an option. I have live plants that are growing (slowly) and my lighting will be the next upgrade. 

but have a few questions.....

1. Do I have to remove all the gravel and the UGF entirely to use a new filter system? or can I simply turn it off and put the new filter into the tank?

2. Should I run both filters for a while till the new filter has bacteria established?










3. With live plants will the water flow be a problem.

4. Anyone have any experience with the Fluval underwater filters? Pros? Cons?

This is a 46 gal bowfront with neon tetras, dwarf coral platys, a blue ram, guppies, and 2 angel fish. I know I'm at the max - fish wise but the tank is very happy right now - amonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 40... and I don't want to mess it up. I've been told that an UGF is a huge NONO for plants.

All comments are appreciated.


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## roland0 (Mar 6, 2012)

You can't just leave a UGF plate under the gravel if you are not going to use it. It will become a bed of anaerobic bacteria. Either keep using it or remove it totally. Running the filters together for at least a couple of weeks would be a good idea to seed the new filter. The plants should be ok with the water flow.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Interestingly, while I was told an undergravel was a huge error with plants, I tried it and had great plant growth. I would consider an undergravel far superior to any submersible, in tank filter. Underwater filters are disruptive to clean, intrusive to look at and weak as biological filters. 
If I had no clearance, I might consider a canister filter, but otherwise, I would stay with an undergravel any time. If you do make the change, I would run both.
How are you running the UG? Is it on powerheads or an air pump?


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## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

thriftygranny said:


> My FW community tank has been set up for 3 months now. I had very little extra money at the time I set it up so I simply used what I had on hand. That means that the undergravel filter went into the tank. I'm now in a position to upgrade the filter and was considering a Fluval underwater U4.
> When I set up the tank it was pushed up against the wall with only an inch of clearance so a HOB filter is not an option. I have live plants that are growing (slowly) and my lighting will be the next upgrade.
> 
> but have a few questions.....
> ...


1. Do I have to remove all the gravel and the UGF entirely to use a new filter system? or can I simply turn it off and put the new filter into the tank?

I would (i will explain in detail why futher into the post)

2. Should I run both filters for a while till the new filter has bacteria established?

Yes and no..Yes if it your only means of getting bacteria to your new filter
No if you have another source..(ie another tank with a filter on it)

3. With live plants will the water flow be a problem.

Depends on he plant..some like flow some do not..Need more info on your plants you have now and are planning to get in the future to correctly answer that question.

4. Anyone have any experience with the Fluval underwater filters? Pros? Cons

I do not have any experience with those filter so i cant say how good they are .

Now for my explanation on why they shouldn't be used.
UG trap alot of stuff underneath them. that needs to be cleaned or waer parameters are going to get nasty. Also rooted plants will root, thats what they do and they dont really care what they root too. Ive had mine root to the botom of the glass before. So if they root there. you will have alot of roots growing between the little slots on that UG making it impossible to remove to clean.

For filters..i would get a canister remove the UG. i would also use sand for plants depending on plants you get in the future. Stem plants will do ok in gravel, but if you want a foreground plant like glossostigma, or dwarf baby tears, they dont have long enough roots to stay in the gravel long enough to root themselves.

Hope this helps

Rick


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## thriftygranny (Sep 3, 2012)

navigator black said:


> Interestingly, while I was told an undergravel was a huge error with plants, I tried it and had great plant growth. I would consider an undergravel far superior to any submersible, in tank filter. Underwater filters are disruptive to clean, intrusive to look at and weak as biological filters.
> If I had no clearance, I might consider a canister filter, but otherwise, I would stay with an undergravel any time. If you do make the change, I would run both.
> How are you running the UG? Is it on powerheads or an air pump?


I use powerheads to run the UG. I guess if I have to remove it then I would be doing a complete tear down of the tank which is not something I'm eager to do since the tank is basicly just done cycling. Hate to start over. Maybe I'll look into upgraded lighting for now and see if the plants are happier after that. 

I add API Leaf Zone with each weekly water change. Should I be adding anything else? or a different product?

Thanks for the help.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I had great results recently on an emergency filter I had, due to one breaking. While you are being thrifty, consider this. I purchased a commercial sponge filter - one of the larger ones with coarse black foam. It was about $15 here. In the US, it'll be half that.
The air tube of the sponge filter slid out, and fit perfectly with the bottom stem of a maxi-jet powerhead. I ran that assembly as an in tank filter for months, with very delicate wild caught Mexican mollies in a 33 gallon. The water quality stayed superb and the filter was easy to clean and not hard to hide. Instead of buying a submersible filter, I had a superior one for next to nothing.
I'd do that with the other powerhead running the UG. However, if you stop the UG, you probably want to remove it.
Whitetiger has excellent points, and is a true planted tank guy. Bear in mind that while all my tanks are heavily planted, I don't focus on plants with the passion and attention to detail he does, and my suggestions are based on my less plant oriented approach.


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## thriftygranny (Sep 3, 2012)

thanks to both of you for your replies. 

I think my biggest decision right now is... am I ready to "start over" or not. Removing the UG creates a lot more expenses. i.e. new substrate, new filter, new lighting, new fish since you know I'll loose some during a new cycle, etc. I like the idea of the sponge filter that's a thrifty approach that appeals to my nature. But I'm smart enough to know that an aquarium is a costly hobby in itself. I'd like to do this a little at a time to help spread out the cost over time. I guess I shouldn't take to long to decide. I know that my amazon swords are creating a large root system into the UG as there are roots growing up the intake tube on one side of the tank already! That can't be good! LOL

I'll update as I decide what to do. You both have given me great info to consider and I truly appreciate it!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I assumed that ug was a problem in planted tanks as they need to be vacummed and that would disturb plants.Under gravel filters with power heads offer a "natural" way of filtering .I would think that if you kept one power head on ug and added second filter it shouldn't be a huge problem.Many have trouble keeping plants rooted so if plants attach to anything (under substrate) I would consider it helpful.UG filters aren't obsolete but think many enjoy the ease of hob/canisters.That being said and taking into consideration others(plant peoples)opinions; are plants your focus or an addition to fish?UG are good filters(I don't use them anymore), and when Iused them had no trouble with fish.If you choose to abandon UG then I would run it while letting second filter seed and then remove it.As with all gravel tanks you will still need to vaccum.Sand tanks don't need as "deep" vaccuming to remove debris as less "settles" in the substrate.I agree that without flow the space under UG plate would/will become anerobic which is lethal when disturded or allowed to get out of control.I tried a couple of the in tank submersable filters and they are not really adequate to run a tank alone.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Why new substrate? Your old will hold some of the bacteria. I would remove the UG and leave the old gravel until your new filter seeds. Then change this so you wont have as large a crash. Do everything in steps so to speak. On the filter you have mentioned Ive no experience myself but if its internal they do work welll. Ive a whisper internal and really liked it. However, they do take up room inside the tank. That was my only issue because with my fish they needed the room lol.


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## thriftygranny (Sep 3, 2012)

In an effort to spread out my tank upgrade and help my plants do better I went shopping yesterday. I found new bulbs for my light fixture. It's a traditional T8 with 2 18" bulbs end-to end. I found zoo med Flora Sun - Max Plant bulbs so picked them up. I also got plant fert tabs. Put in the new bulbs and the fertilizer tabs and will see if this helps. Next step will be the filter upgrade. 

I keep you posted on the progress.

Thanks again for all the great advise!


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