# So Far, first planted tank has been terrible, please help!



## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Hey Guys:

Here are my issues, any help would be awesome.

When I built the tank I started off with just black A]aquarium gravel. after starting the tank cycle I decided that since I have always wanted a planted tank, I would just start over and build one. I read many articles on this site and watched a few youtube videos about starting one. I mde a DIY CO2 etc. 

My substrate looks terrible. Redish Flourite under Black Aquarium gravel (some how the flourite is slowly popping up to the top of the gravel and it looks hideous!!! My lighting is 2, 18inch T8 Planted tank bulbs but they seem way to dim and make my tank look hazy. (they fit the hood that came with the tank) Flourite under Black gravel was recommended to me by the LFS

I have a 55 Gallon Tank. I have 2 swords, 2 Anubs, 2 Java Ferns, and 2 Hornworts. DIY CO2, and 4 Zebra Dans. The fish seem to be doing great but the plants look really bad. Alot of dead leaves, and they seem to be covered in some sort of Blackish looking Algae. 

I need some help. Should I start over using a different substrate? Like pete moss and play sand?. 

I do have an old shop light in my garage that I never use. Should I use that instead of the tank hood? Do I need to buy a second light and hang them over the tank? (saw that in a youtube video)

Is the Black looking algae a serious issue? or will it go away in time? I see people's tanks on here and the plants look amazing! I'm really jealous!

I just want a Clear, Green, Healthy tank, with happy fish. Right now I have Happy Fish, but an ugly dim tank, and pathetic plants! 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

I can place the fish and the plants in an empty 10 gallon I have in my garage while I rebuild. 

If there is a step by step guide on how to build one, or things to do, please direct me to it. I can follow instruction very well!

Thanks!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like your substrate would be fine, especially with the plants you listed. Are your two lights end to end? Do you know what kelvin rating they are? How long are they on for?


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## knownothingfishowner (Feb 22, 2010)

Been there, dude. It sucks. Tried every configuration similar to what you listed and ended up with zero improvement. Murky water, sketchy fish, dying or dead plants...except anubias, which are essentially bullet proof. 

Finally gave up and got some proper lighting. Amazing improvement in both plants and fish. Threw in some Flourish tabs, Flourish Excel and a 100ml bag of Seachem Purigen in the filter. 

Boom. Crystal clear water, minimal algae, happy fish and fast,full and green plants.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

As I understand it you have a 55g which I presume is 4'.

I agree The first thing is to increase lighting. a couple of 4' 2 tube tube shop lights would help. Home depot has them from about $10 and 6500k tubes are 2 for $6. If you can use them with your hood you should get enough light.

The substrate is fine but if you desire to replace you could do that also. even Just putting 1" of sand on top then gravel on top of that may be more to you liking.

I would also add enough giant vals to form a back wall of plants would be nice.

FWIW java plants do tend to get algae.

finally from what I hear co2 is for high lighting tanks.

my .02


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

> finally from what I hear co2 is for high lighting tanks.


this is true in reverse(if that makes sense.) once you max out on light, the plants use up co2 too fast for the extra light to do any good. in other words, lights are good, but to get the most out of the brightest light, you need to add co2 in order to give the plant the feul to carry out photosynthesis at its maximum potential. as for cheap lighting, check out my gallery, there is a pic of the type of lights i use on my tanks. sometimes, the cheaper stuff just works better


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

By your description .... your #1 problem is your lighting. 2 18" bulbs over a 55g tank just won't do very well at all. You can use shop lights ( I use a few myself ). They are a cheap and great alternative to aquarium lights. Depening on your set up, you can also use CFL bulbs in a vanity or even pendant lights.

DIY CO2 on a 55 will only benefit you if you are running multiple bottles. You would probably need about 4 bottles of DIY before noticing any effects.

What is happening with the substrate is normal actually. The smaller particles tend to work themselves down through bringing up other stuff. I see this happen alot when people cap gravel with sand. It's good for a while, but over time, things settle.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks so much for the advice so far. I will change the lights out tonight after work. That fixes one of my problems. (and yes they were two separate bulbs.)
Will one shop light work? Do I need to hang 2 over it? Also will the standard bulbs work or do I need to go to the LFS and buy special ones?

So would it be beneficial to change the Substrate? Im sure it will work as is, but its not very attractive. If I get more lighting and the plants take off, I suppose I could plant some "Carpet" to cover up the ugly mixture of Gravel and flourite. 

Any thoughts on my substrate situation?

Oh also, I have a large bubble curtain in the back of the tank. Is that even necessary anymore?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Substrate will be entirely up to you. It should grow plants just fine. If you don't like it though ... it's your call whether you want to change it.

As for the lighting, how many watts is the shop light? Regular bulbs will be just fine for it. Go to Lowes or HD and look for Daylight bulbs. Should be in the 6500k spectrum.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

I will get the shop light out of my attic when I get home. If its not strong enough I'll just buy a bigger one.

If I choose to change the substrate, whats cheap way to change it that looks natural and eye appealing?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Attractive is too subjective. I actually like the black look. What looks even better is when you add with the large gravel (light tint of brown color) that is actually natural river rock. Small rocks, but large for gravel.

Can you post a pic of your tank?

When you get the better light on there, I'd start out with leaving it on for about 8 hours and adjust from there. A timer comes in handy for this. None of my tanks get more than 5hrs a day. Longer hours than what is needed just promotes algae growth. Also if money is not that much of a concern, you can buy a light for that tank for just under $250.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Let me first say, I don't have a lot of experience in this, but in thinking about future upgrades to my 30G, I've been considering what you're doing. From what I've read I agree with what the others have said, high lighting and CO2 injection go together. If you try to do one without the other you wind up with problems. For CO2 injection you really need well over 2W per gallon, with 3 or 4W per gallon being more ideal as a general rule of thumb. With no CO2 injection you want to max out around 2W per gallon. If you look at your bulbs, I think you'll find they won't even come close to 100W, much less the 150-200W you should aim for with CO2. Shop lights will work just fine, but if you want a nice look (which SWMBO insists on, in my case) you might want to look into a kit to retrofit your hood at a place like ahsupply. It would take a little DIY power, but I think they are supposed to be very good kits.

The only way I know to keep substrate layers from mixing some is to keep the plants in terra cotta pots, and bury them halfway. I'd rather have layers mixing, myself... :/

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Depends on the plants, I guess. I have 3.47WPG on my 75gal with no CO2. Plants grow over an inch a week and thrive.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

More light would help but before you make too many changes look at low tech, low light tanks. You can create a very nice look with the 'bullet proof' plants, it just limits your options on plants but not scape.

Algae is more of a problem in a new tank, some algae problems vanish with time. I love nerite snails, they clean the algae right off the leaves of plants. Don't leave lights on for too many hours a day as that causes algae problems even if the light is not strong.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Loren said:


> I will get the shop light out of my attic when I get home. If its not strong enough I'll just buy a bigger one.


a 2 tube 4' shop light will give you (40W tubes=40w, 32w tubes=64W) 1-1.5 w/g which is actually pretty good. If you use your existing 2 18" tubes that should be enough and approacting 1.5-2 w/g


> If I choose to change the substrate, whats cheap way to change it that looks natural and eye appealing?


No need to change out the entire substrate but if you must I would use the 1" peat moss, 1" play sand, 1" pc select (or aquarium gravel. In layers with each layer filled with water then leveled and the tank sides cleaned up. I put the plants in there before I fill the tank then fill the tank by pouring water over a dish on hte substrate to prevent disturbing the substrate.

While that's easy to do for a brand new tank, it requires a lot of work for an existing tank. So it is up to you.


I use the peat moss with not ferts added in 2/3 cubic yard bales from home depot ($10), play sand in 50 # bags ($3-4). Pc select is harder to get but only costs $8 for a 50 pound bag.

my .02


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Ok, I dug out the Shop lights and to my surprise I found 2! so I don't have to buy an extra one. I looked at the bulbs and they say "Phillips F32T8". I'm assuming that's a 32W bulb at T8.

What do you guys think about that? Overkill to use both?

I'll leave substrate alone for now. I guess I just want it to look really nice and I'm some what of a perfectionist. I think I'll be patient and wait for the plant improvement. no one really looks at the gravel anyways. (Just me for some reason!)

I'll attach a picture soon.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

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Its not amazing, but I'm learning. Eventually I hope I can make it look awesome. Or buy a larger tank and use what you guys are telling me to make a really great aqua scape.

Oh and, the tank is roughly 10 years old. The Tank has been with me at College, traveled half way across the country and back. So the hood has gotten a bit beat up over the years. When I go to shop lights it wont matter.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

I looked up the bulbs. They are only 3500K, Do I need to bump all 4 up to 6500K?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

6500k would be better.


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## carpus (Oct 16, 2010)

*Yes, BUT...*

mere mortals usually don't know when they are crossing the line of diminishing returns. It sounds to me like this guy could easily use some more lighting, and is in no danger of needing an HO-fan-cooled--highbeam-bright unit, especially as he has a tank with a dark bottom. 

I like the simple Coralife freshwater units--the low ones with aluminum housing and wire extensions on the end--nothing fancy, but they are inexpensive, and work. Also, some light colored Conga Rock on the substrate would brighten things up a lot.



Auban said:


> once you max out on light, the plants use up co2 too fast for the extra light to do any good. in other words, lights are good, but to get the most out of the brightest light, you need to add co2 in order to give te plant the feul to carry out photosynthesis at its maximum potential.


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

*Re: Yes, BUT...*



carpus said:


> mere mortals usually don't know when they are crossing the line of diminishing returns. It sounds to me like this guy could easily use some more lighting, and is in no danger of needing an HO-fan-cooled--highbeam-bright unit, especially as he has a tank with a dark bottom.


i prefer to use cheap lights from walmart, no fan cooling involved . even so, without the Co2, my plants dont grow fast. of course, without the bright lights, the Co2 doesnt make much difference...


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Ok, so after some work this weekend, here is what I have now. 

The water is a bit hazy partly because I just planted some Vals and stirred up the substrate a bit and I think the tank is still settling. I'm going to leave it alone, I think the water will clear in time (It does clear in time correct?). Lights are 6500K Daylight bulbs X4

The little gray box at the bottom left is an HVAC control panel. I rigged the controller up to control my lights on a schedule so I don't have to ever physically touch them. Right now the lights are scheduled to run from Mon-Sun 8am to 8pm. I also programed in an Override switch on the Thermostat that's mounted to the light bar. The override allows me to run the lights over the 12 hour period if I choose to. (Company over at the house, etc) right now I have it set at 120 Mins. Then the lights turn back off after the time expires. 

The Thermostat also displays the room temp, and as soon as the sensor I ordered comes in, it will digitally display the water temp as well.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Tank looks good, but would look much better with natural driftwood. Just a thought. Also, just looking at that...12hrs a day....you'll probably have algae problems.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

ok, Thanks. I'll back it down then. do you think 8 hours is better? Less even?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You just have to see. Set it for what you want and back off from there. Take away hours your not home and in bed first and adjust. Watch your plants and make sure they are not affected.


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## Kirby1 (Nov 17, 2010)

Looks nice, your plants will grow much better with those lights. When I went from a single blub to 3 higher wattage bulbs my plants exploded.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

10hrs is a good photo period.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I have been experimenting recently to get more algae for my nerite snails (yes I may be the only person who wants more algae)!

I get almost no algae with 8hrs, a little with 10hrs and quite a bit with 12hrs, which keeps it just above the rate my snails can eat it at. Every system is different but I have about 2wpg and no co2.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I wish it were that easy for me. One of my tanks I only have lights on for 4hrs a day and still fight that bright green algae...and I mean everywhere. I think it is getting it from my TV and room light. Getting ready to force load with plants...hope they win out.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I wish it were that easy for me. One of my tanks I only have lights on for 4hrs a day and still fight that bright green algae...and I mean everywhere. I think it is getting it from my TV and room light. Getting ready to force load with plants...hope they win out.


Interesting, what type of algae is it?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> Interesting, what type of algae is it?


The nice pretty bright green kind. I even had it below my substrate line on the glass. Most came from the ambient light in the room during the day. It sits right next to a double door that is mostly glass. It sits back from it in a corner and hasn't been getting much light during the day until the season change, or so it seems. I've gotten blinds for the windows now and a UV sterilyzer going. I think the problem has gone away - hopefully. There are over 100 plants in there as of today, so hopefully there won't be many spare nutrients for algae to grow.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you dose the tank? 
I'd consider nerite snails, they eat large amounts of algea. Mine aren't much good at eating tough, stringy algea but they eat all the algae that coats the rocks, glass, plants etc.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Loren

If it doesn't clear up in a couple fo days cut back light duration.

Looks nice and I think the plants will explode now and your problems are a thing of the past.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, I dose it. Have thought of those snails, just have not moved ahead enough to get them. Just added about 100 plants to the tank and was hoping that would help. Verdict still out on that though.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Could you have been dosing too much for the plants you had?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> Could you have been dosing too much for the plants you had?


Possibly, but the algae started long before I was dosing with any ferts. Before it was just Wisteria and a few Anubias. The algae is reduced now that I cured most of the ambient light problem and there are nearly 100 plants of many types in there.


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