# *Help* Discus problems



## Nimrod (Aug 9, 2011)

I have a problem with the Discus in my tank, The fish are very shy and the hide away in the back corners and they are hardly out and a few of them arent feeding. i put 3 new discus in my tank 2 weeks ago to try and get the others to come out but i have not succeeded. My Ph is at 7.8 and my nitrate levels are the same as the water from my tap at 15 ppm. I'm not sure whether this is wrong but would someone please give me some advice to why my fish shy away all the time.


My Current Tank contains 6 Discus mixed species , 4 Bristlenose Plecs 2 sparkling gouramis 10 Harlequins and 15 cardinal Tetras.

Many thanks 

Tim


----------



## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The classic water conditions for Discus are soft water, low ph, high temp (>80F) and low Nitrates. Discus are often very shy and need a lot of plants to feel secure. Discus are also variable in their personality. I once had a Brown Discus that was as agressive as any large cichlid. It's never a good idea to stock other fish with Discus because potential disease problems, increased fish wastes and possible bullying action of the other fish toward your Discus.


----------



## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

What's your temperature and the size of your tank?


----------



## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

That is the whole idea of researching before you buy!!!


----------



## Nimrod (Aug 9, 2011)

My water temperature is at 29º C and the Tank is a Jewel Trigon 190l.

The 3 three discuss i had before are fine its just the newer ones that i never see.


----------



## Nimrod (Aug 9, 2011)

giddetm said:


> That is the whole idea of researching before you buy!!!


Thanks for that terrific advice! (Oh the sarcasm bleeds)

If you aren't willing to help then go and find someone else's thread to fill with your pointless and unhelpful advice.

*td


----------



## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

I am trying to help,just remember next time you go to your LFS. When you walk around the corner and your jaw drops at the fish you see STOP ask questions,go home and researching the fish and then buy. If you are worried that some else will buy it first,ask the owner to hold the fish. It's SIMPLE!!!


----------



## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The universal tonic for many fish problems is water changes. With your Discus I would make a 10-20% water change with distilled or demineralized every day for a week. Watch your ph, it should start dropping and you will want to get it below 6.5 if possible. You also should see a drop in your Nitrates. The Discus is one fish you must practice frequent water changes or they die. Remember that the Discus is not a community tank fish and doesn't do well in the dirty water produced in a crowded community tank.


----------



## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

You're very overstocked. How long have you had the tank set up? Did you cycle it? if you didn't acclimate them properly, they still might be adjusting, or may be shocked by the change of pH. Best way to acclimate fish is definitely the drip method.


----------



## Nimrod (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for your advice, the tank has been setup 3 years, the decor has not changed i have plants bog wood and gravel. i have had 3 discuss that have been fine for the past three months and have continued to do so. these three have been brought up on hard water so i know that these discuss can live in these water conditions, but the three more that i bought last month have been coming out a bit more now so i think they were just getting used to the tank. but i shall try and lower my ph and nitrates using your advised methods. many thanks for your time!


----------



## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

Nimrod said:


> Thanks for your advice, the tank has been setup 3 years, the decor has not changed i have plants bog wood and gravel. i have had 3 discuss that have been fine for the past three months and have continued to do so. these three have been brought up on hard water so i know that these discuss can live in these water conditions, but the three more that i bought last month have been coming out a bit more now so i think they were just getting used to the tank. but i shall try and lower my ph and nitrates using your advised methods. many thanks for your time!


If they've already been in the tank for 3 years don't go try changing the pH. But if your tank's pH is changing on its on, and it's not caused by plants, you have to find the source of whats causing it, otherwise the pH products will be useless.


----------



## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

Your tank is a 50 Gallon tank US. You are probably overstocked a bit. It is good to have "some" dither fish in there with them. Your ph is way too high and your nitrates are off the charts for discus. Reduce the dither fish, watch your feeding... You need to get your nitrates close to zero... (keep the cardinals..the others go)...Good luck. Bill in Va.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Wow, that many fish and your nitrates are only 15ppm in that size tank? Sounds hard to do.


----------



## logan84 (Jul 27, 2011)

I don't think I saw anyone mention this but discus, while rather peaceful, can still be territorial just like any cichlid can be. That said your discus that have established themselves may be intimidating the new guys. Just a thought!


----------



## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

Another suggestion I've got for you is to totally re-arrange the decor in your tank... The older fish have mapped out their "territory"... and relegate the others to everywhere but what they are familiar with. Changing the arrangements.. plants, driftwood, decorations will eliminate those defined territories. Bill in Va.


----------



## sipres87 (Nov 14, 2010)

i agree with the guy below, they maybe just be "just picking on the new guys"..
i read about an researched discus for 1 1/2 yrs b4 i set up, an found lots of ppl talking about "pecking order".
-Also, maybe they were/are shocked an took a while to adjust to ur water. do you know the water that they came from?


----------



## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Seachem Discus Buffer!!! Get the PH down or they WILL die.


----------



## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

Or my best suggestion would be to pack up the 6 discus and ship them to me!.. .I've only got 8 in a 155G or 590L... Bill in Va.


----------



## AmazonTreats (Nov 12, 2011)

Meow Mix Anyone... ?

Puff a spliff and relax UM kay

Now,
I sell my Discus to varies stores and individuals and I find that not all stores have the same requirements it would Depend where the fish are coming from Tank raised, Farm Raised or wild spawn F1 -F3 . When you get them from the store ask what their conditions are because not all use peat or acid buffers. Alot of mom and pop shops use tap and that is fine as long as it is conditioned. Ideally Reverse Osmosis is the best (the 99.8% of filtered saline particle is what is required for sperm to penetrate the egg after spawning and that cannot be reproduced by product. Generally R/O is used when pairs are regularly spawning every 2 weeks and to maximize the number surviving fry.
You Must Lower the PH GRADUALLY as not to shock the fish. The sooner you start the better as every day that passes by weakens their immune system thus causing them to cower it is a sign of stress if they have darkened expect some internal parasites as Discus can stress themselves into illness. They are only high maintenance if you don't do the upkeep . The highest you should have your ph at is 6.8 they can go to as little as zero. I don't know what kind of filter you have but get rid of the substrate and you can get some salt and pepper corys other than the ancistrus they are the only other bottom feeders suitable for Discus as they tolerate higher temps without passing on parasites that Discus do not have immunity to. Discus do not need gravel in my Show tank I have my retired Dinner plate sized Discus in all strains there is no substrate but plenty of slate and Malaysian woods as well as Driftwood. I use Sword like plants usually plastic they require less maintenance, no bushy leaves . The Discus love swimming in the longer reeds. The more Aquascaping you do towards the back of your tank the faster you will eliminate their timidity. They should be lookind forward to seeing you as they recognize who butter's their bread " Oh ...everybody smile, look hungry...here comes the food guy". I can hand feed all of my Discus,Angels Rams or corys and it is because they are accustomed to me being in their space... but they also know that with disruption there is always a num-num for them so they don't freak out-- even when they are breeding. Always approach Discus from front and NOT on from the top this is where they become spooked the most as their natural habitat in the Amazon is shallow river water banks and something approaching from atop without any warning usually means your the meal in the animal world. So it is their instinct never underestimate a fish...Especially Discus they are the only egg layers that require the parents mucous to feed off of for the first 5 days of their lives without it they would die . In large Breeding Farms they reproduce the fish mechanically so the fry know where to attach themselves.
So Ph has to go down do it gradually with a Ph down buffer and you can check it daily and go down .5 each day. Now you need proper bacterial conditioning for Discus they love the humus water the green dingy kind. Since fish are colour blind this can be reproduced with either peat filters or moss balls and driftwood. I use an Amazon water conditioner when I use tap water I also use Black Water extract when inducing Breeding. Nitrates and Ammonia both come from polluted water either from overfeeding or not enough space. Regardless of what people say fish don't stop growing because you tank says so. If that were the case there would be no marine zoo's/aquariums cause everyone could have a dophin or a whale or a gynormous Tuna, right...lol . The other things to consider is medications the best medication for Discus is Prazipro and Fluke Tabs . Prazipro in particular helps with everything it also can be used with charcoaled filters and it does not change or cloud up water. Remeber a couple of things though, what were their conditons like before whether with you or the new ones and the temp should be atleast 82 degrees and to induce breeding you go up to 86-90 . 
The most important thing to remember about Discus is to keep the tank clean so do everything you can to eliminate anything that waste can hide under or collect around (like gravel ). You can start off with alot of plants but gradually you can remove them so the Discus will be comfortable with their surroundings and still be active vibrant fish and like every cichlid once they establish themselves there will be a pecking order and the begginings of pairings. Diet for Discus is imperitive, for fry Beefheart is fantastic for growth as they progress keep up with the Beef heart and start adding brine shrimp, they loke worms as well but worms have little nutritional values and depending on where you get them they can have parasites..even some of the Hikari brands of Tube worms are risky. Spirulina is a natural colour enhancer as well as providing the proper vitamin nutrients. Flakes however suck they are messy and Disus like to sink there teeth into something. Get a dry food that has Spirulina in it and feed them a couple or more times a day rather than one big one. Feed them the frozen or live food last because if they have the steak before the hamburger they wait for dessert leaving a big mess in the tank of uneaten food which turns into ammonia and nitrates. You can always purchase a nitrate/ammonia pack from any filter put it in a mesh bag and put it in your filter for a couple of hours and check your levels or leave it in for longer.
Brine Shrimp helps Discus bulk up and grow so Protein,protein,protein Brine Shrimp also helps to the brighten the Red hues in your fish .

Hope that helps and wasn't patronizing


----------



## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Good advice. I have reached many of the same conclusions. There were a couple of new ideas there I will look at. I wish you were in Houston so we could trade some fish, or perhaps I could just by some for my big tank.

My biggest breeding pair is about 6" but most of my others are five give or take.


----------



## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

AT.. I really have to take exception to a number of points you state.. While I've only been into Discus for the last year, I do have 5 or 6 years experience over 20 years ago. 
As you state in your opening.. your a breeder.. supplying stores.. NOT a hobbyist... we are two different breeds my friend... 
My Discus tank has a clay based substrate with close to a 100 plants in it.. The fish love it.. They may not grow as big as you do in your sterile cube of water.. but then again I could probably grow my children in a bubble to the age of 150 years and 7 feet tall... It's my belief that the fish doesn't really have a vain bone in it's body that it should be an inch longer.. only humans have that vanity streak... I think they enjoy the environment that I provide with all the associated bumps and bruises they'll acquire during their lifetime. For you in the fish factory business, sure go for your sterile environment, me?.. I prefer to focus on providing the most natural setting that I can provide. 
another issue.. You sound like a pharmacist!.. To lower ph?.. Grab some leaves off your lawn and throw them in the tank once ya know you've no chems attached to them.. Ph no higher than 6.8.. Please don't base your passing of information based upon what ya learned 20 plus years ago. Today's tank raised Discus can do fine up to 7.6 or even more.. and in HARD WATER no less... My first foray back in the early 70's, with fish directly from Watley did require Ph down around 5.. peat in the filter... black water extract. Thank God for the progress in keeping the King of Fish.... 
RO water for breeding?.. There is a major breeder you'll find on AB that sells 100's each month... all bred in hard water..

My conclusion?.. you are either passing on dated information or are trying to add a degree of mystique to the keeping of Discus in order to generate benefits to your fish farming operation. Bill McDonald Richmond, Va.


----------



## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

To the OP.. Some folks get tied up in the technical issues associated with the hobby..They get engaged in the techie stuff and lose sight of the primary issue... FISH! Pursue that other venue if you like.. Just make sure that you visit your fish OFTEN.. they'll become less shy like AT stated... Keep watch on their fins.. as they become more comfortable with your presence..they will put on a display for ya.. fully outstretched.. showing off their colors.. That means happy fish.. Enjoy them and take heart that tomorrow, someone else with have advice that contradicts all that you've heard before.. Bill in Va.


----------



## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I think the fish will sort it out, but from my discus experience, most of them will have to go, as well as the other fish. With four discus in a tank twice that size, i got locked into an endless cycle of water changes. You may be able to do it, but once they had grown to adult size, I had to do forty pêrcent twice weekly or they immediately showed distress. If you are going to keep them for more than a year, I think you`ll need no more than one discus per 80l. 
I don't keep discus anymore, although I follow the same rule with my Satanoperca from the same biotope.

There are different philosophies - and I never bought the bare tank approach although I respect it (btw - all scientific research says fish see color). Discus freaks tend to disagree with each other rather strongly, but I've seen both approaches result in long-lived, healthy fishes, and in breeding.


----------



## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

Hey Nimrod, How are your Discus doing? Did you make any changes,Please let us know this great debate is going and you should tell us what is going on now.


----------



## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Nimrod said:


> I have a problem with the Discus in my tank, The fish are very shy and the hide away in the back corners and they are hardly out and a few of them arent feeding. i put 3 new discus in my tank 2 weeks ago to try and get the others to come out but i have not succeeded. My Ph is at 7.8 and my nitrate levels are the same as the water from my tap at 15 ppm. I'm not sure whether this is wrong but would someone please give me some advice to why my fish shy away all the time.
> 
> 
> My Current Tank contains 6 Discus mixed species , 4 Bristlenose Plecs 2 sparkling gouramis 10 Harlequins and 15 cardinal Tetras.
> ...


I posted a while back and am curious to read how things have worked out for you. Hopefully you got the PH down and with water changes got the nitrogen down.

My Discus, except for one, want me to pet them when I feed them. I hold the food in my hand and they come up and peck at it and rub against me until I open my hand and give them what they want. I think the key is they have to recognize you as the caregiver and not a threat. I started with mine when they were the size of a quarter and now the big ones are huge, over 5", and the ones that stopped growing are 3-4". Perhaps the key was they grew up with me.

Discus are shoaling fish. They love to group together but not follow a leader even though a dominant shoal fish will emerge. How friendly that fish is may be another key. My shoal leader is the only one we have named, Plato. He is only a little bit of a bully and lets the others eat and is friendly to the people. As somebody else stated they can be territorial but usually that is only when they start to pair off.

I consider neon and cardinal tetras as "canaries" for discus and the fact you are keeping them alive is a good sign. The bad part is discus like it hotter than they can stand. Further, it you keep the tank around 87 degrees the worst of the paracites reproduction is interupted and they are less prone to get sick. In fact I have killed it in the past by running the tank up to 90 degrees for a month without adding any medication.

Good luck with your fishies and let us know how they are comming along.


----------

