# did my first gravel clean up and it was DIRTY



## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

i did my 3rd water change and my first gravel clean up
i poked my vacuum into some sections of gravel and noticed bunch of flakes coming up, last time i did a water change i poked around but didnt get that much stuff


so i didnt get to finish cleaning because too much water was being taken out and i want to clean it again but i dont want to lose my important bacteria..i did about a 25% change and im sure i missed at least 30% of my gravel to clean which im worried about

the tank looked clean but now i know its not

i was gona go get my water tested n get some new fish but now im thinkin i shud clean the gravel b4 i get new fish? how bad does dirty gravel affect my fish n aquarium


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Why do you want more fish while the tank is still in a cycle? All you do is risk wasting your money. A new fish in fresh, never been occupied tank, is much different than throwing a fish into a cess pool of ammonia and nitrites.

I wouldn't vacuum my gravel much at all while it is cycling.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

obviously u didnt even finish reading my question

also ive had my water tested and everything was fine so thanks for nothing


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

The water you remove at a water change has bacteria in it but for bacteria to function properly it needs to be stuck to something so I wouldn't worry about losing bacteria with a water change, you will still have enough bacteria on the gravel and in the filter. 

In short bacteria floating about the water is negligible.

Just make sure you use some sort of De-Clorinator for the fresh water that will be going in the tank.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sorry I can't help.

I balance my tank with live plants and never clean the substrate or change the water.

oh perhaps that helps. *old dude

After 8-10 year when I finally took down a tank, the substrate was nasty. But it didn't seem to hurt anything.

You might also consider feeding less.

just some random thoughts

worth at most .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

pairenoid said:


> obviously u didnt even finish reading my question
> 
> also ive had my water tested and everything was fine so thanks for nothing


I read enough to know that what you're doing is not the best thing to do to a cycling tank.

Water changes do not hurt bacteria colonies as mentioned, that is because very little bacteria is in the water column. However, nearly all resides in your gravel and filter, and some will attach to anything else you have in the tank. This is why most people that perform gravel vacuums on their tanks only do portions at a time instead of the whole tank (like you did) - so it does not affect the beneficial bacteria - of course this is on an established tank, not on a tank that is cycling. Perform gravel vacuums on a cycling tank too much and you'll just add time to how long the tank takes to cycle. But of course I am sure you've read about this already.


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## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

pairenoid said:


> obviously u didnt even finish reading my question
> 
> also ive had my water tested and everything was fine so thanks for nothing


How rude, asking others for help and then being nasty when you don't get the answer you want. WOW*old dude


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

? he said why would you want new fish in a cycling tank

i said my tank has good paramaters and i was wondering IF <<<<< i should get new fish

he didnt answer my question he attacked me and didnt even read my question

if you read it, it is implied i want to buy new fish if its safe....
some people on here actually like to help people thats why i am posting here, thanks other people who helped, very useful information ^_^


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

pairenoid said:


> he didnt answer my question he attacked me and didnt even read my question


I may not have answered the way you wanted, but for sure did not attack you. I sort of remember your situation and only asked a further question. Many times more info is needed in order to give a better answer.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I may not have answered the way you wanted, but for sure did not attack you. I sort of remember your situation and only asked a further question. Many times more info is needed in order to give a better answer.


I have to agree with you there. I had to read this thread a couple of times to check lol. I did not personally see any form of 'attacking', just advice from one person to another. 

As mentioned the bacteria colonies that help to fully cycle your tank reside in filter media, ornaments, gravel. As from I remember your tank is not even that old hence why the advice was not to clean such a large quantity of your gravel so early as it can interfere with such a new colony of bacteria. A tank can take a month or 2months at times to fully cycle. If you test your water in a local LFS they almost always say things are 'fine' they don't actually give you the info you actually need to know whether it is fine or not. Leading onto why the advice wass not to get more fish yet until you know for sure things have cycled (preferably using your OWN liquid test kits).


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

yea i started my aquarium with a few plants

i tested it and they showed me the results compared to a chart with colors and everything lined up fine, it was the same test kit i was gona buy but they told me i can do it for free so i opted to continue this process, im going tomorow to check how my water is (because of my water change)

i didnt know that about gravel so thats good to know thanks, i only cleaned a few spots with the gravel but noticed a lot of dusty material thats why i was wondering if i should keep cleaning it, i had know idea safe bacteria lives there. Good thing i only touched a little bit of my corner tank. 

my fish are lively and swimming since day one (minus a guppy that had droppsy and a oto cat that died i never seen him eat anything think it was starvation)

so if i get my water tested and its good ur telling me i shud still wait? how do i know when the cycling is done or good to go
thanks


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

The only way you would know for sure is if you done your own tests as you would have regular (almost exact) readings. Stores only give you an over view of what is really happening and say things are fine as certain factors are within what we would say as 'safe' levels. When in reality what is in safe levels one day may not be the next. Once your tank is cycled and you take your own daily readings and they show the same levels of nitrates, nitrites and ammonia over several days then you know its cycled and slowly you can put in a new fish or two over several weeks.

As your store shows you the reading results take a note of what levels they are (number wise not color lol) and post them here for people to know what is happening. Preferably try to go daily or every other day to get it tested and if they stay exactly the same then you know its cycled (and might stop a few people having a mini fish heart attack on here when reading lol)


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

k so if i buy somethign to test regularly wat wud u recommend, i saw so many diff kits and there was no one in all test kit

i noticed ammonia was the most expensive and was hard to find an all in one test kit

price is a HUGE factor here, and i notice they all come with only 4

how is 4 any good! i wud rather just go once a week to petsmart n save me 20 bux lol


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

thats the only problem they are pretty pricey. But money spent now ensures less money spent in the future trying to sort out problems that can be caused not ensuring you have great water.

API tend to be the best. You can get master kits online which usually are cheaper than in-store


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Well for one thing Petsmart only uses test strips which are highly inaccurate. To get exact readings you actually need liquid test kits which does come with everything you need and will last at least a year.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You'll know your tank has cycled when ammonia and nitrites are zero, and you have some level of nitrates - usually in the 20-40 range.


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## Lil Gashog (Dec 1, 2010)

susankat said:


> Well for one thing Petsmart only uses test strips which are highly inaccurate. To get exact readings you actually need liquid test kits which does come with everything you need and will last at least a year.


PetSmart does have the API test kit for aorund 30$ I bought mine there


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

just realised i didnt say what a cycled tank levels should look like lol. But as mentioned just above... 0 ammonia/nitrites with a small level of nitrates usually around the 20(ish) mark.

As said get a liquid test kit as they are more accurate (though they cost more it is worth it in the long run)


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## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

I saw a post somewhere that said you can go online to Wal-Mart and find the API master testkit for less than 20 Bux and they will send it to your local store. I got mine on sale at the Dr. Smith and Foster but spent 30 bux more to get the free shipping.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah Walmart has a Site to store thing.Never used it myself,and not sure if you pay shipping,though I dont see why you would since it comes on the normal trucks.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Last kit I ordered online with Walmart was less than $20 shipped to me.


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

Answering a question with a counter question is considered rude by some people so I can see where pairenoid is kinda coming from, I personaly don't find it rude only annoying.

I cleaned my tank during cycle and seen no problems the main thing is to make sure you don't empty all the Amonia/Nitrite out with water changes as the bacteria you need won't come.

You can leave the tank for big Spikes then hit the water changes to get the nitrates down at the end or if the Amonia/Nitrite is kept low and you do a light cycle you will need to be patient when adding fish and not put to much of a burden on the tank.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Ranger said:


> Answering a question with a counter question is considered rude by some people so I can see where pairenoid is kinda coming from, I personaly don't find it rude only annoying.
> 
> I cleaned my tank during cycle and seen no problems the main thing is to make sure you don't empty all the Amonia/Nitrite out with water changes as the bacteria you need won't come.
> 
> You can leave the tank for big Spikes then hit the water changes to get the nitrates down at the end or if the Amonia/Nitrite is kept low and you do a light cycle you will need to be patient when adding fish and not put to much of a burden on the tank.


That is the problem, the tank isn't cycled and he has fish.


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

I have kind of missed the point to why I was quoted.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

Ranger said:


> I have kind of missed the point to why I was quoted.


I paid $35 for my kit, damn.


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

I never mentoned a Kit sorry, I only mentioned a few points on cycling a tank and how some folks find answering a question with a question rude, hence me saying I missed the point of why I was quoted.

Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think you just missed the point altogether. You didn't offend anyone. The original question was never answered initially...it was NOT answered with another question as you say, but rather another question was asked to get more information in order to give a better answer.

If someone comes on here and asks why they have algae in their tank and that was the only thing posted, could anyone even come close to answering if they didn't know, what size tank, how often do they feed, how many fish, how long are lights on, is the tank close to a window, what type of light, wattage, kelvin of bulbs....and so on? Just an example.

As I said before, sometimes more info is needed in order to give the person the best advice.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

im getting confused as to the point of this now all im reading is people saying a question with a counter question and vice versa lol


Anyway hope things get back on track with your tank


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## bruceaction (Dec 24, 2010)

All prase to the self disciplened people for not dumping this touchy parianod type,,
mate if you what to get on in this world,even if others seemed to have misslead you,missunderstood your blog, always respond with grace and good manners.
that way we will remain a happy group of fish interested people,,,ok


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## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

Sorry for speaking my mind, I thought this was a forum seems I was wrong.


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## pairenoid (May 20, 2011)

bruceaction said:


> All prase to the self disciplened people for not dumping this touchy parianod type,,
> mate if you what to get on in this world,even if others seemed to have misslead you,missunderstood your blog, always respond with grace and good manners.
> that way we will remain a happy group of fish interested people,,,ok


come back when ur not high as hell lol 

i know i am lazy when i type but this goes beyond all limits


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