# At suggest max but want to add a few more fish



## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

First, I have a 16 gallon fresh water tank that is currently stocked with 5 fancy tailed Zebra Dainos and 3 Platies (all females). I realize I am at my max of inch of fish per gallon- but I would like to add 1 more Platy and 2 smaller corries (nothing that gets over 2 inches). Would adding them be too much? 

My reasoning:
Before I got the Danios, I had 4 Platies. One recently died, and now they hide allot- they seem happier when there were more of them.

Corries- it was always my goal to have at least one of these guys- but since learning they like to be in groups, I figure 2 would be a good compromise with my size tank.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

You're actually a little understocked, so you'd be safe adding a few more fish.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

I would suggest 3 corys. This is a better group than 2. Why no male platys? I would add a male platy. Platys don't hid normaly, you need to find out what's wrong. If you have plenty of filtration and monitor your fish closely you can streach the 1in per gallon rule.


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

Scuff said:


> You're actually a little understocked, so you'd be safe adding a few more fish.


That is good to know- I was using the 1 inch per gallon rule, but I was think since the Danios are slim fish, I could add just a few more. I don't want to go crazy stocking too many.




NeonShark666 said:


> I would suggest 3 corys. This is a better group than 2. Why no male platys? I would add a male platy. Platys don't hid normaly, you need to find out what's wrong. If you have plenty of filtration and monitor your fish closely you can streach the 1in per gallon rule.


Luck of the draw- there were no males at the time I got the Platies. I've also been studying how to identify the sexes and have determined that they are all female. Are there problems with just keeping one sex of Platies?

I'm pretty sure they were hiding because they lost their tank mate, going from 4 to 3. (Tank conditions are fine- I am keeping a close eye on the ammonia and nitrate levels and doing about 12% water changes ever day or two as needed during the new tank cycling period). They seem to be adjusting the new danios. They are swimming all round the tank again.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Adding males to the females will just add more potential problems, unless there is another tank standing by. But, just getting all females doesn't ensure they won't have babies either. If they have been pregnant before, they can hold the sperm up to six months.


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Adding males to the females will just add more potential problems, unless there is another tank standing by. But, just getting all females doesn't ensure they won't have babies either. If they have been pregnant before, they can hold the sperm up to six months.


Thanks. I didn't think having all females was bad. I'm not looking to have a fry, but if it happens, I have a spare 10 gallon and equipment or I could just let nature take its course.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If you go the live plant route, there's really no way to overstock as long as you have enough plant growth to offset the overload on the fish. Really, when it comes down to it in that case, it's just a matter of keeping enough swimming room for your fish.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I wouldn't say you are understocked, it sounds like a nice stocking level to me, but I think you could get away with a little more. It partly depends how good you are at water changes etc. How about pygmy corys? They are much smaller. I agree that you should have at least three corys.

How long has the tank been running? DON'T add any more fish if there is any chance the tank is still cycling. Even after the cycle give the tank a week or two to make sure it is running smoothly and it's better to only add one or two fish at a time.


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

snail said:


> How long has the tank been running? DON'T add any more fish if there is any chance the tank is still cycling. Even after the cycle give the tank a week or two to make sure it is running smoothly and it's better to only add one or two fish at a time.


This tank has been running just about a month now. The bacteria bloom started just after I got the recent batch of Dainos- so yeah- I am not getting any fish for a couple of weeks until the cycle is over. I'm just getting information now so I can window shop and do some more research on the corries while I am waiting.



snail said:


> How about pygmy corys? They are much smaller. I agree that you should have at least three corys.


I need to talk to my local aquarium shop to see what he stocks. It a popular shop that sells though batches of many fish in under a few weeks. My friend set up a saltwater aquarium with owners help last year and has been very happy with the results. 

Knowing what I am looking for now- I can ask the owner to have some of a particular type ready for me in a few weeks.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

It would be best to test the water to know when your cycle is done but if you are not testing I'd wait a month or 6 weeks to add more fish. You have a lot of fish already for a tank that has only been running a month. The extra time will let you make sure your tank is running smoothly. 

Your filter also plays a big role in how many fish you can stock. Your filter must be good to stock more than you have. Some live plants might also be good.


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

snail said:


> It would be best to test the water to know when your cycle is done but if you are not testing I'd wait a month or 6 weeks to add more fish. You have a lot of fish already for a tank that has only been running a month. The extra time will let you make sure your tank is running smoothly.
> 
> Your filter also plays a big role in how many fish you can stock. Your filter must be good to stock more than you have. Some live plants might also be good.


I test and do 10-20% water changes every day right now.

The Platies are doing much better, the Danios have calmed them. The come out in the open water more often and don't immediately dart for cover when I look in. The also like their new brineshimp food :fish5:..

I've looked at my filter that came with the tank (Cascade 100), and have decided I am going to upgrade to a Cascade 300 it when it is time to change filter cartage. 

This will work out well, I have a 10 gallon I want to set up. I'll move the old filter, old filter cartage, and a new bio filter to the 10 gallon. I'll give the 16 gallon an new filter, new cartage, and the old bio filter to kick start it.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

Honestly. If the biological is there to withstand the bioload of the fish you're adding you could add much more. The 1" per gallon rule applies to 1" cubed, not length. So take the length times the height times the width of your zebra danio then divide by 3. Much smaller number isn't it? I wish more people understood how you can actually stock tanks instead of criticizing and placing these rules they think everyone should follow. I say add 3-5 cories and then see where you have space in the tank, then add a fish to use that space.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

lol, I'd have a heck of time figuring the width of a danio.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

Exactly, don't sweat over the exacts. You'll find in this hobby theres a lot of "rules" that you can break as soon as you understand how your tank works. Oh and if you're going to change the filter, get something with a biowheel. Penguin brand is my personal favorite. Once that biowheel is all filthy you'll never have an ammonia or nitrite problem.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

aconrad said:


> Honestly. If the biological is there to withstand the bioload of the fish you're adding you could add much more. The 1" per gallon rule applies to 1" cubed, not length. So take the length times the height times the width of your zebra danio then divide by 3. Much smaller number isn't it? I wish more people understood how you can actually stock tanks instead of criticizing and placing these rules they think everyone should follow. I say add 3-5 cories and then see where you have space in the tank, then add a fish to use that space.


I don't agree with that, I think 16 cubed inches of fish would be too much for a 16 gallon tank, but I get the point you are making and it's true that the total bulk of the fish is more important than just the length, also rules are more general guidelines to avoid overstocking.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

snail said:


> I don't agree with that, I think 16 cubed inches of fish would be too much for a 16 gallon tank, but I get the point you are making and it's true that the total bulk of the fish is more important than just the length, also rules are more general guidelines to avoid overstocking.


Why couldnt you have 20 cories in a 16 gallon? (yes i agree thats too much.) Its truely subjective, all thats important is that you have the room for them and the biological in place to withstand the bioload.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I think the compatibility of different fish species needs to be factored in as well. With a tropical community tank it's not such an issue, but if you introduce semi-aggressive fish like SAE's or TB's, you're going to have a fish fight on your hands until the semi aggressive species have cleared out enough room for themselves.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Unless you are experienced at keeping fish stocking by what feels right is less likely to work than using some kind of rule. I've met plenty of people who think a 10 gallon tank with a sponge filter is loads of room for 3 common goldfish. The problem is people see tanks in shops packed full and think they can have as many fish in their tank. For that reason I think it's better to use rules to start off and when you get a feel for it you can start using common sense .


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

if the fish arent swimming too weird or they havent lost any color then you can add one more fish and if they still remain you can add one more 


the point where fish start swimming erratically and weirdly or very fast that means they are getting screwed up and thats when you need to return that last fish to the store 

adding an extra filter and adding a lot more live plants gives you an oppurtunity to add more fish 


i used to have 2 ram cichlids and 6 Zebra danios and 6 cardinal tetras in a 10 gallon for 9 months and never lost a fish 


another thing to consider while stocking is selective fish that swim at appropriate levels 
(rams- bottom, tetras middle and danios top) 

they are always happy


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

Well I decided against adding the Cories to 16g. I have a big decoration on the bottom. With all the plants, I'm don't think they will have enough room to move comfortably. Plus- the Platies seem to really like the planted area- they are healthy and happy, but don't come up above the tops of the plants unless they are playing with the Danios or I am feeding them :fish10:.

Once the tank completely finishes cycling, I think I am going to keep it Platies, Danios, 2 ghost shrimp and a snail (so that means I will add two more Platies max bring their total to 5). 

I started a second 10g that I plan on eventually adding 3 Jullii Cories to with a small group of Pristella Tetra (3 right now- will up to 5 as the tank cycles). That should give the Cories plenty of bottom room.

I see how those number do before I decided on any more.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I would suggest Amano shrimp as opposed to ghost shrimp - easier to keep, bigger (means less harassment as potential snack food), and hardier than ghosts. Only thing is, most places don't have them.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

tinman said:


> if the fish arent swimming too weird or they havent lost any color then you can add one more fish and if they still remain you can add one more
> 
> 
> the point where fish start swimming erratically and weirdly or very fast that means they are getting screwed up and thats when you need to return that last fish to the store
> ...


You are one of the customers people at fish stores hate.... Why return a fish? It is usually not the store's fault that the fish died if it does. You really think its the store's fault when you buy a fish that wasn't right for your tank, or you didnt acclimate it correctly? If a fish swims eratically its usually because the water it is in isnt proper for it, or it is in shock from going from not being acclimated correctly.


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

aconrad said:


> You are one of the customers people at fish stores hate.... Why return a fish? It is usually not the store's fault that the fish died if it does. You really think its the store's fault when you buy a fish that wasn't right for your tank, or you didnt acclimate it correctly? If a fish swims eratically its usually because the water it is in isnt proper for it, or it is in shock from going from not being acclimated correctly.




would you mind reading my post properly please  

and when i said return the fish i meant getting rid of the fish, may not exactly be like "take your fish back, and give me my money " most of the stores wont take it back but they would accept the donation. IF the LFS did take that fish back, it will be because i got most of the fish from that store (business to them) and in a way its saying come again 

and its a suggestion for a newbie and its one fish cause that way he will be saving rest of the fish (donating or giving back or selling it off, GETTING RID OF IT )

and coming to your HATING point : its never my problem if someone hates me! is it ? im right now hating you for jumping to conclusion and pointing at me. not your problem is it ?


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## FlatPanda (Jan 18, 2011)

tinman said:


> and its a suggestion for a newbie and its one fish cause that way he will be saving rest of the fish (donating or giving back or selling it off, GETTING RID OF IT )


It is a good idea for a newbie. This is actually my second tank. The first one I started was Platies. I wanted a bottom feeder (cause I think they are cool, not that they would eliminate cleaning). Not knowing any better, I got a Chinese Algae Eater. Needless to say, I lost quite a few Platies before I realized the mistake  . He was terrorizing Platies, suck the slime off them. They hid all the time. If the stress didn't kill them outright, the stress made remaining Platies sick with ick. The ick got so bad, I moved the survivors to a temporary tank, and started the main tank from scratch.

Thankfully, I started to visit fish forums and read that it was perfectly acceptable to take a problem fish back to the store. I never expected any money for the fish- I just didn't want kill it. CAE was rather cute in his own way- when he wasn't killing his tank mates.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

aconrad said:


> You are one of the customers people at fish stores hate.... Why return a fish? It is usually not the store's fault that the fish died if it does. You really think its the store's fault when you buy a fish that wasn't right for your tank, or you didnt acclimate it correctly? If a fish swims eratically its usually because the water it is in isnt proper for it, or it is in shock from going from not being acclimated correctly.


It is the store's fault if they sell you a sick or diseased fish. "Most" fish look healthy in a store but usually they have only been in there at most one week, and in most cases for me only a day or two. I usually don't buy a fish that isn't new and I know the days my stores get their fish. Most fish don't start showing symptoms of ailments until about 7-10 days.

If I returned a fish that was dead because it died 1 day after I bought it, and _*they gauranteed it*_, I can care less if they hate me or not!


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

jrman83 said:


> It is the store's fault if they sell you a sick or diseased fish. "Most" fish look healthy in a store but usually they have only been in there at most one week, and in most cases for me only a day or two. I usually don't buy a fish that isn't new and I know the days my stores get their fish. Most fish don't start showing symptoms of ailments until about 7-10 days.
> 
> If I returned a fish that was dead because it died 1 day after I bought it, and _*they gauranteed it*_, I can care less if they hate me or not!


In what way is that the store's fault? It may be the fault of wherever they got the fish. And to the original poster that i quoted i apologize but from the way you said it, it sounded different than you meant. Usually a fish dying the day after you bought it, you didnt properly acclimate it. If that fish could live at the store, why couldn't it live in your tank? It should only get better in your tank than the store because it doesnt have the stress of nets in the water constantly, kids banging on the glass, and just people going by all the time.


Btw, tinman. Your post that I quoted still has so many errors in it that reading it properly is close to impossible. I really dont understand where a lot of your "logic" is coming from. I dont mean to be negative, but you shouldnt be giving advice when you have no idea what youre talking about.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

aconrad said:


> In what way is that the store's fault? It may be the fault of wherever they got the fish. And to the original poster that i quoted i apologize but from the way you said it, it sounded different than you meant. Usually a fish dying the day after you bought it, you didnt properly acclimate it. If that fish could live at the store, why couldn't it live in your tank? It should only get better in your tank than the store because it doesnt have the stress of nets in the water constantly, kids banging on the glass, and just people going by all the time.


Doesn't the store take responsibility for their products? If I go to LOWE's and buy a Black and Decker saw and it doesn't work, isn't LOWE's on the hook to replace because they take responsibility for the products they provide? I don't see it any different.

Also, personally I feel you are maybe mostly right in your comment about acclimation and fish getting better in a different tank than the store's. I drip acclimate all of my fish and it does help. However, a disease in a tank at the lfs can take as long as two weeks to show on a fish and it doesn't alays "get better". If that disease happens to be columnaris they more than likely will die. I have yet to successfuly treat a fish that had it and frankly, would have a hard time believing too many if they say they have and I have all the current meds claimed by people who have treated it before. I have lost dozens to the disease. I have also lost fish within a day or two of the store despite the painstaking of a 2-hour drip acclimate.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

jrman83 said:


> Doesn't the store take responsibility for their products? If I go to LOWE's and buy a Black and Decker saw and it doesn't work, isn't LOWE's on the hook to replace because they take responsibility for the products they provide? I don't see it any different.
> 
> Also, personally I feel you are maybe mostly right in your comment about acclimation and fish getting better in a different tank than the store's. I drip acclimate all of my fish and it does help. However, a disease in a tank at the lfs can take as long as two weeks to show on a fish and it doesn't alays "get better". If that disease happens to be columnaris they more than likely will die. I have yet to successfuly treat a fish that had it and frankly, would have a hard time believing too many if they say they have and I have all the current meds claimed by people who have treated it before. I have lost dozens to the disease. I have also lost fish within a day or two of the store despite the painstaking of a 2-hour drip acclimate.


Youre dealing with live goods. Its not the same as a saw. The saw cant get killed if the customer doesnt put it in the shed right. Although, the same logic applies in a way, if you break it the store wont be taking it back. 

I also drip all my fish usually for around an hour and i also put them in quarantine tanks before they go in any of my tanks that have anything nice in them. 

This isnt about the original subject but I'd like to add how people say "your fish had ich and it killed all my fish". A majority of the time people have problems with ich is when their tank itself has problems. If theres ammonia or something else that would cause the fish to be stressed their immune systems will not be able to fight the disease. Its the same thing as us, we come across disease all the time but our immune system can handle it. Usually you get sick when you dont get enough sleep or are stressed.


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

Well aconrad you are not able to follow my logic cause you are not reading it properly 

Lemme explain when the population becomes too much in a tank the fish are already uneasy but are accepting to live with it 

When you get a fish from the store and drive home having it in a bag and However you acclimate it to the tank conditions it still is the most stressed fish than the ones in my tank and eventually show off it's disease

And my logic comes from my observation of the fish and experience with it 
And just for you to know and adding to wat jrman said it's still a stores fault to sell bad fish ( they charge us way morethan what they get the fish for so thy are covered ) 
Basic difference between family owned Lfs and chain lps is family owned stores select their fish so they get disease free fish( atleast my Lfs does) and they obviously charge more but it's ok as long as we get quality fish 

I'm not here to explain everything to you incase you don't understand 
You didn't ask for advice so no need to take it the one who asked for got my point so it's all good 

If you are not ok with my advice, post your own. I'm not gonna argue anymore 
I only had fish for 1.5 years ( I'm a newbie too) but never lost a single fish Watever might be the reason so I think I understood the concept verywell if you disagree I'd say ......... 

Good luck everyone


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

So who's fault is it if you do everything you can to ensure the fish gets to your tank as safely as can be, acclimated and handled the best possible way and it still dies within a day or two? I don't think it's mine. Most stores don't think so either or they wouldn't offer a 14-day gaurantee.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

In my town all the "Big Box" stores offer a 14 day guarentee except for salt water fish. I have kept fish for so long that I don't ask for my money back if a fish dies, it's usually my fault. It's a wonder these fish survive the abuse we lay on them. I wonder how many fish are being lost at airports in this cold snap back East?


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

aconrad said:


> Youre dealing with live goods. Its not the same as a saw. The saw cant get killed if the customer doesnt put it in the shed right. Although, the same logic applies in a way, if you break it the store wont be taking it back.
> 
> I also drip all my fish usually for around an hour and i also put them in quarantine tanks before they go in any of my tanks that have anything nice in them.
> 
> This isnt about the original subject but I'd like to add how people say "your fish had ich and it killed all my fish". A majority of the time people have problems with ich is when their tank itself has problems. If theres ammonia or something else that would cause the fish to be stressed their immune systems will not be able to fight the disease. Its the same thing as us, we come across disease all the time but our immune system can handle it. Usually you get sick when you dont get enough sleep or are stressed.


Clearly live stock is a tricky thing to regulate but I don't think that means the store should hold no responsibility. I had a personal experience which highlighted this. I bought quite an expensive fish which looked fine but a couple of days later it had visible ich, despite treatment it died. When I went back to the store half their fish (and it was a big store) were dead or dying of ich. It turned out that I bought the fish on the day after it was imported. If they had only had the sense to quarantine newly imported fish for a couple of days it would have saved everyone a lot of trouble. Thankfully I quarantined the fish when I got it home, If I had put it in a tank with other fish I don't think I could blame the shop that it spread to the other fish as it would have been my fault for having skipped my own quarantine but clearly the death of that fish was not my fault. 

I also agree that it's often the customer who causes stress or the death of a fish but even then ideally the store should have taken the time to make sure the person buying the fish knows how to care for it and has a suitable tank, something few LFS do.

Finally if a store offers a guarantee then obviously it is their responsibility to honor it.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

In all reality every store should quarantine all of their fish before letting them out to the public. It just doesnt happen. Usually the fish would have gotten ich because of the stress from being shipped and then again being stressed being in the store, acclimating to their system, being bagged, and then finally having to acclimate once again to your tank.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Interestingly the same shop now quarantines, guess they learned their lesson.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

A lot of stores only offer guarantees to not have pissed off customers who didnt acclimate their fish correctly and are going to cause a commotion. I never return dead fish, usually its my fault or I just dont see the store as being at fault.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I've never returned a fish, dead or alive either, but then I think that was the only time I had a new fish die on me and I've not bought a fish at that store since. I do think that on the whole stores offer very poor service and show even less regard for the fish they are selling, it's just that people don't have a choice or don't know any better. Of course there are exceptions but most stores could do with a lot bigger sense of responsibility so I find it hard to feel sorry for them even if it wasn't their fault that the fish they sold died.


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