# EMERGENCY! OMG...You Guys are NOT Going to Believe This...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

We woke up this morning to our 60-gallon springing a leak, with half the water from the tank gone and spilling through a nasty thick crack in the back wall of the tank -- our living room on the level below is ruined, as is the home theater system and speakers installed in the ceiling the water leaked into, and worst of all, perhaps, is the fact that after ALL THE HARD WORK that went into trying to save the Black Moor from the last tank disaster we had, we will probably lose her because we had to move her AND the small goldfish we recently put in with her back to the 10-gallon, which is now severely overstocked at four fancytails...

I'm wondering now if it was the SCALDING hot water I used to sterilize the tank when I cleaned it down last time (after the bacterial infection) that caused this crack in the back glass, as I believe it was Navigator Black here who warned me about this when I was doing it...but why would it have taken so long for the crack to appear? -- NEVER have I experienced a tank leak quite like this, and now we don't know what to do...we drained the water from the 60 and that has eased the leak into the carpeting/flooring, and we have an emergency contractor on the way, but what about the fish in the 10 now? How long can they last -- the four of them -- in this small tank, and do we go out and buy a new 60 to re-start the tank yet AGAIN? Our money is being drained now from the contractor we needed to call and the entire house smells like fish/fish water...

People, what am I going to DO? You ALL know what we have went through with this whole fiasco of the 60-gallon and the crash it experienced -- are these all signs we weren't meant to keep fish?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ouch!!!!

ouch!!!!

and double ouch!!!!!

Sorry to hear.

hope everything gets all fixed up.


my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks for the insight, Bob!


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## Kehy (Apr 19, 2011)

Ooooh, sucks about the tank! 
Do daily or bi daily water changes on the 10 if you can, like 20% each time. Might lose your cycle, but right now it's just important to keep the ammonia down. 

Go on craigslist, there's often cheap tanks, I've seen a 55 going for $40.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Man, that sucks about the theater system. Is your homeowner's insurance or renter's going to cover any of the damages, or the contractor?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Thanks for the insight, Bob!


you could also get a $10 30g storage container from wallmart. bolt on the lid with the center cut out. put some sand and plants in there then move the fish there until you get a replacement tank.

the lid would be necessary to stabilize the sides which would colapse otherwise.

my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Kehy said:


> Ooooh, sucks about the tank!
> Do daily or bi daily water changes on the 10 if you can, like 20% each time. Might lose your cycle, but right now it's just important to keep the ammonia down.
> 
> Go on craigslist, there's often cheap tanks, I've seen a 55 going for $40.


Thanks Kehy,

I appreciate the response; do you think the four of them will be okay for awhile in the 10 gallon doing the daily changes?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> you could also get a $10 30g storage container from wallmart. bolt on the lid with the center cut out. put some sand and plants in there then move the fish there until you get a replacement tank.
> 
> the lid would be necessary to stabilize the sides which would colapse otherwise.
> 
> my .02


I'm not even sure we're going to start another large tank up again; my wife has had it and I don't blame her -- our ENTIRE house is ruined because of this tank's crack, and I'm not saying this probably wasn't mostly my fault from rinsing it the last time with DRASTICALLY hot water, but this is ridiculous already...we have technicians, contractors and insurance adjusters crawling all over our house right now...all for a tank of goldfish...

What are the chances tanks crack like this without outside trauma caused to them? Is this common?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> Man, that sucks about the theater system. Is your homeowner's insurance or renter's going to cover any of the damages, or the contractor?


Yes; my wife took care of it on the phone with them -- I just cannot BELIEVE that I have to do EVERYTHING over again...EVERYTHING in both the stereo system that was in the room with the fish tank and the home theater downstairs was working perfectly...perfectly dialed in and adjusted...now, it's all over and my life is pretty much ruined...


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

first off where do you live? (reason I ask if you are near L.A. then that 3.8 might have shifted it enough to crack it last night)
2ndly the scalding hot water more then likely weaked the glass and the seams. When cleaning out a tank, use straight cheap and I mean dirt cheap white vinegar. and some rough sponges and very fine steel wool. unless it acrylic then use the cleaner only.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> first off where do you live? (reason I ask if you are near L.A. then that 3.8 might have shifted it enough to crack it last night)
> 2ndly the scalding hot water more then likely weaked the glass and the seams. When cleaning out a tank, use straight cheap and I mean dirt cheap white vinegar. and some rough sponges and very fine steel wool. unless it acrylic then use the cleaner only.


Hello White Glove,

Thank you so much for your reply -- indeed, I live a state away from L.A., and I didn't even know we had a quake! That would make total sense...

As for the second statement, that's more than likely what happened -- the scalding water probably weakened the glass, and that's what we suspected...we're just in ruins right now with everything that's going on.

Are cracking tanks more common than one would think? We don't know what to do right now -- especially with the fish in the 10 gallon, which is hiddeously overstocked right now...


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Its not that common but if that thing with close to 600# of water in it plus substrate weight could indeed shift just enough to cause a stress crack of fissure in the glass.

Yeah you had a 3.8 last night, I grew up in SoCal so yeah a 3.8 wouldnt wake me either lol. 

Id do what bob suggested with the tote tank instead, just rinse with the vinegar first, rinse with room temp water and wipe out with lint free clothes(old baby diapers the cotton kind are awesome for glass cleaning).

I have used scalding water to clean tanks before but It was applied with a sponge to stubborn salt creep stains.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Did you have an hob filter?

Although this is probably more common then we realize, it is still very rare.

Our local club has people with large tanks that have ran for years and years with no cracking glass.



that I remember.




my .02


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

That is really unfortunate. I have never lost a tank to an "open glass' crack, but I've had seams go. It is a mess.You might have put a hair of a crack into it with the scalding water, depending on how you did that, and then with the tremor or just with the water pressure, had it spread like a windshield crack in a Canadian winter. Or there could have been a fault in the glass. It's rare, but it's possible.
Whatever the cause - what a mess. 

And no Bob, unless you attach a washing machine motor to the HOB filter, it isn't going to crack the glass.


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Poor fishies! To say nothing of you! Tucker Totes or plastic trash cans will help you hold the fish. Keeping the water clean without shocking them with different temperature swings and rollercoaster ammonia/nitrogen levels is going to be your biggest problem since they will not be in a cycled tank. Use an extra trash can and have day or two old water, at the right temperature and PH, ready to change out as much as you need or worst case, pop them from one container to another. Look in on them as often as you can for signs of stress.
On tank cleaning, never use water hot enough to stress the glass. Never use soap. If you want to sterilize use a combination of bleach and water. Chlorine remover like you treat tap water with will neutralize the bleach completely. The worst thing I have done in recent years is use a Scotchbrite pad on my brand new, custom built, 240 gallon tank with Starfire glass. Thank goodness I realized it was scratching the glass before I damaged much of it. All I was trying to do was get the glue, ink, etc. from the shipping off. Teflon safe my behind!


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

navigator black said:


> That is really unfortunate. I have never lost a tank to an "open glass' crack, but I've had seams go. It is a mess.You might have put a hair of a crack into it with the scalding water, depending on how you did that, and then with the tremor or just with the water pressure, had it spread like a windshield crack in a Canadian winter. Or there could have been a fault in the glass. It's rare, but it's possible.
> Whatever the cause - what a mess.
> 
> And no Bob, unless you attach a washing machine motor to the HOB filter, it isn't going to crack the glass.


even then the washing machine motor is on a bracket and I highly doubt a HOB could support the weight if a less then educated person puts it on there lol. But that gives me an idea.................lol


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah. I don't want to make light of Clinica terra's mess - it really is unfortunate.

I made tea once in a thick clear beer stein (bachelor days) and moments after the hot water went in, it came out. It cracked right down the side. That taught me about glass, treatments of glass and really hot water. It was a thick beermug. 
It wasn't holding 60 gallons of water though. That is a %^%$$%$#!


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Sometimes I feel like an IDIOT. The BEST quick temporary home for fishies in trouble is a cooler! Any size will do but if you happen to have one of those Texas sized truck bed coolers you are set! Put the fish in there and it will hold the water pressure, the temperature will be very stable, and it will buy you time. You can even close the top for a few minutes if you have to move them, but do not leave it closed or they will suffocate.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks for all your concerns, fellas...

All four fish are in the 10 gallon for right now -- I just did a 50% change on that tank and that's all we can do for the time being because the workers are tearing our house apart...

If I do water changes EVERY DAY on the 10 gallon, should these fish be okay until I can figure out what to do with a replacement tank? Our house is COMPLETELY flooded from this mess...


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank God my 110 that flooded was on the ground floor. That was bad enough!


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

50% daily is probably enough. Just be careful on the temperature, ph, and chlorine.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

My life is seriously over, for all intents and purposes...


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

I posted that a daily 50% should be great, but for some reason I can't see it... off to do a 50% on my Discus tank!


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

You did post that a 50% water change would be perfect -- but another forum is telling me WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT in any of their members' minds, these fish WILL NOT live or survive in a 10 gallon, no matter what...

I did this. I caused these eventual deaths. I should share their fate...

All I wanted to do was save a Black Moor's life...and now this...

I will NEVER forgive myself...


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

oh my fricking god!!!!!!!!!!

im so sorry for whats happened! glad no one was hurt tho. 

50% daily is a must in the 10g and the fish will be fine in there for a short time only. 
a friend of mine put 15 cichlids in a plastic laundry basket with the filter, heater and air stone for a couple days and they was ok. so if you do have something bigger fill it up half then add fish and filter and water from the 10g plus conditioned tap water.


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree, they will be fine for a short time if and only if the water you change out with does not shock them. Match the themperature, PH, and get all the chlorine out, airate it if you can, and they have a fighting chance. I have had Discus in a 54 gallon trash can in an emergency and they did fine.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

You can keep your four fish alive. If your family doesn't decide to kill you for the mess (I survived my 33 gallon failing years ago) you can keep yourself alive. It'll be fine, with water changes.
All that's at issue is surviving your partner and planning the next step. I kept three goldfish from the school pond in a 20 gallon plastic tote box for 2 months while we were doing repairs. It can be done short term with water changes. Long term, you have to rehome them, or set up again. That's the next hurdle. 
But the fish should live.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

Awful lot of tanks giving out here lately. I'm starting to get real paranoid.

Clinica all I can really offer is, everybody still has there proper finger and toe count so it's all fixable. I hate hearing about these things happening, what a buzzkill.. - N


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

There are two tanks here, on the forum, that have failed with open glass cracks. That's incredibly rare. I'd be curious to know if they are the same brand name. 
I had two identical 33 gallon tanks lose the back bottom seam, weeks apart. They were tanks I had bought on sale (I had bought three), all from the same no-name manufacturer. I got rid of the third one pronto, and put it down to a manufacturer's defect, with no recourse as a consumer. They were 4 years old, if I remember correctly.
It isn't common for tanks to break, it isn't common for the break to be off a siliconed seam, and it isn't common for the break to spread across glass. I have owned over a hundred tanks, and have worked with a company running 150. In a few decades, those two defective ones were the only ones that gave.
Here. I think the scalding water started something, and it took time to fail. 

Whatever the cause, it's bad luck it happened. But I am very trusting of any cross braced tank. More than 20 gallons with no cross brace... hmmm.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> oh my fricking god!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> im so sorry for whats happened! glad no one was hurt tho.


Thanks Zero. Indeed, our dog sleeps and lies on a couch just below the ceiling that the flood took place -- if we weren't home, or didn't see this in time, it could have been A LOT worse. 



> 50% daily is a must in the 10g and the fish will be fine in there for a short time only.


I have no problem doing 50% daily changes -- but what do you mean by "short time only"? We're looking at three weeks until we can have that room back to the way it was, with all drywall water extraction and new carpeting being laid down...so I CAN'T get a replacement 60 gallon in there before then. Will they be okay? 



> a friend of mine put 15 cichlids in a plastic laundry basket with the filter, heater and air stone for a couple days and they was ok. so if you do have something bigger fill it up half then add fish and filter and water from the 10g plus conditioned tap water.


A laundry basket!? Wow...but that was for a couple of days...this would be....ummm...longer...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Rod4Rodger said:


> I agree, they will be fine for a short time if and only if the water you change out with does not shock them. Match the themperature, PH, and get all the chlorine out, airate it if you can, and they have a fighting chance. I have had Discus in a 54 gallon trash can in an emergency and they did fine.


Rod,

I'm adding cool tap water (they're goldfish) with every change and using Prime to treat the new water before it goes in (dosing the tank itself). This should take care of the chlorine and lower some ammonia and other parameters; would this not be good enough?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

navigator black said:


> You can keep your four fish alive. If your family doesn't decide to kill you for the mess (I survived my 33 gallon failing years ago) you can keep yourself alive. It'll be fine, with water changes.
> All that's at issue is surviving your partner and planning the next step. I kept three goldfish from the school pond in a 20 gallon plastic tote box for 2 months while we were doing repairs. It can be done short term with water changes. Long term, you have to rehome them, or set up again. That's the next hurdle.
> But the fish should live.


Thank you, Nav -- at least this is a little encouraging...

I will DEFINITELY do bi-daily water changes on the 10 gallon for as long as I have to; should this be enough to keep them surviving for the three-week reconstruction on our house?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Nereus7 said:


> Awful lot of tanks giving out here lately. I'm starting to get real paranoid.
> 
> Clinica all I can really offer is, everybody still has there proper finger and toe count so it's all fixable. I hate hearing about these things happening, what a buzzkill.. - N


Thanks, Nereus; indeed, we have all our fingers, toes and heads...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

navigator black said:


> There are two tanks here, on the forum, that have failed with open glass cracks. That's incredibly rare. I'd be curious to know if they are the same brand name.
> I had two identical 33 gallon tanks lose the back bottom seam, weeks apart. They were tanks I had bought on sale (I had bought three), all from the same no-name manufacturer. I got rid of the third one pronto, and put it down to a manufacturer's defect, with no recourse as a consumer. They were 4 years old, if I remember correctly.
> It isn't common for tanks to break, it isn't common for the break to be off a siliconed seam, and it isn't common for the break to spread across glass. I have owned over a hundred tanks, and have worked with a company running 150. In a few decades, those two defective ones were the only ones that gave.
> Here. I think the scalding water started something, and it took time to fail.
> ...


Nav,

A couple of things: First of all, you were more than likely 100 percent right about me using the scalding water -- I didn't think it did any damage when I was cleaning out the 60 gallon last time, when you first warned me about it, but apparently it did (weakened the seams and structure seemingly). The tank itself is by the "Fujimoto" brand, which I understand is out of California and has been around for about 33 years, making tanks. Yes, I did have a center brace that looked VERY stable and thick-glassed, so I don't understand what went wrong if that brace got comprimised somewhow...


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Rod,
> 
> I'm adding cool tap water (they're goldfish) with every change and using Prime to treat the new water before it goes in (dosing the tank itself). This should take care of the chlorine and lower some ammonia and other parameters; would this not be good enough?


Because you are doing so many changes the object is to not shock the fish with the fresh water. Get a plastic trash can and age the water at least overnight. De-chlorinate it as soon as you draw it; don’t do it a second time when you do the change out the next day. Since they are goldfish I suspect you are not heating the water and letting it sit overnight will assure it is exactly the same temperature as your tank. That is your biggest possibility of shock and you will have eliminated it as a possibility. You probably do not have to worry about anything else.
If possible put a bubbler or old power head in your trash can. That will pull the chlorine out and make sure the water is aerated and fresh when you change it. 
If you are not adjusting the PH then you should not have to worry about it because what is coming out of the tap will be the same every day.
As for the water conditioner, I don’t use any unless I am going to mix tap water with tank water then I always do in the prep trash can. Even with Discus the bubbler and old power head take all of the chlorine out of the water overnight. I would still use some but if you age the water with a pump or bubbler you will only need it when you can’t wait a day or two.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Rod4Rodger said:


> Because you are doing so many changes the object is to not shock the fish with the fresh water. Get a plastic trash can and age the water at least overnight. De-chlorinate it as soon as you draw it; don’t do it a second time when you do the change out the next day. Since they are goldfish I suspect you are not heating the water and letting it sit overnight will assure it is exactly the same temperature as your tank. That is your biggest possibility of shock and you will have eliminated it as a possibility. You probably do not have to worry about anything else.
> If possible put a bubbler or old power head in your trash can. That will pull the chlorine out and make sure the water is aerated and fresh when you change it.
> If you are not adjusting the PH then you should not have to worry about it because what is coming out of the tap will be the same every day.
> As for the water conditioner, I don’t use any unless I am going to mix tap water with tank water then I always do in the prep trash can. Even with Discus the bubbler and old power head take all of the chlorine out of the water overnight. I would still use some but if you age the water with a pump or bubbler you will only need it when you can’t wait a day or two.


Shhh dont give away the discus secrets lol.

We do this with discus all the time, if anyone says your fish will die no matter how many PWC's or well you take care of them is a BONAFIDE idiot and deserves a smack in the head. However, you wont shock the fish if you age the new water say in a 55g garbage can. When a discus like Rod and myself keep need to have a total tank clean we resort to the trash cans with heater and sponge filters, these fish are MUCH more fragile then any goldfish on this planter and they do just fine. 

Ive had discus shipped in that has literally a centimeter of water in their bags and revived just fine in a 5g bucket with about 20 others I ordered(gotta drip acclimate these guys even to go into the QT tank)

I say stick to a 90% pwc daily refill with aged,treated,heated water and they will be just fine, I think and keep in mind I do not give any advice that I wouldnt use myself or have used,that 50% is going to be too little for those guys pending you are using a filter that is made for a 10g. If you are using the 60g's filter(yes you can use it on there with some small modifications) your 50% daily will be absolutely fine. As long as its got atleast 60gph of water going thru that filter they will be fine. I use a 20g per fancy goldfish rule.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> Shhh dont give away the discus secrets lol.
> 
> We do this with discus all the time, if anyone says your fish will die no matter how many PWC's or well you take care of them is a BONAFIDE idiot and deserves a smack in the head. However, you wont shock the fish if you age the new water say in a 55g garbage can. When a discus like Rod and myself keep need to have a total tank clean we resort to the trash cans with heater and sponge filters, these fish are MUCH more fragile then any goldfish on this planter and they do just fine.
> 
> Ive had discus shipped in that has literally a centimeter of water in their bags and revived just fine in a 5g bucket with about 20 others I ordered(gotta drip acclimate these guys even to go into the QT tank)


While I'm not, truthfully, following anything you or Rod are saying above, let me address this:



> I say stick to a 90% pwc daily refill with aged,treated,heated water and they will be just fine, I think and keep in mind I do not give any advice that I wouldnt use myself or have used,that 50% is going to be too little for those guys pending you are using a filter that is made for a 10g. If you are using the 60g's filter(yes you can use it on there with some small modifications) your 50% daily will be absolutely fine. As long as its got atleast 60gph of water going thru that filter they will be fine. I use a 20g per fancy goldfish rule.


Okay. We're using an Aqueon QuietFlow 20 HOB on this 10 gallon, so we're using a model rated for one size above the 10 -- according to specs, the filter is doing about 125 gallons per hour in turnover. Can I still just do 50% change daily, or even bi-daily? I don't mind doing it daily right now...

And do I truthfully have to let the water sit and age overnight? Can't I just keep giving them clean, fresh and cool (as they prefer) water with each change, adding Prime to the tank before the new tap water goes in?

Here's my procedure, because maybe this all got lost in translation somewhere:

*1. Suck out enough water from the 10 gallon, with a Top Fin gravel vac/syphon, to fill my bucket, moving gravel around to suck in debris.

2. Pour about a half a capful of Seachem Prime DIRECTLY INTO the 10 gallon in preparation for the new tap water.

3. Dump the old tank water in the tub, fill up the bucket again with fresh, cool/cold tap water.

4. Return to the tank, dump the new water in, start the filter up again.*

Is this procedure not correct?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

BTW,

This flood disaster from this one fish tank is costing us OVER $50,000 in repairs, based on the estimate from the contracting company that's working here now...

How about that? 50 GRAND PLUS for keeping goldfish...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Wow, dude! Don't know what to say. I hope insurance covers you. I know I had to throw a couple of hypothetical tank disaster situations at my insurance guy to feel good about paying for insurance. I hope you're only out you're deductible!


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> BTW,
> 
> This flood disaster from this one fish tank is costing us OVER $50,000 in repairs, based on the estimate from the contracting company that's working here now...
> 
> How about that? 50 GRAND PLUS for keeping goldfish...


GULP! I hope your insurance covers most of it.

It really isn’t too complicated, it just sounds that way when guys that have been doing this for a long time that study all the science start jabbering. Discus often cost over $300 each so even if you buy them for $20 as babies you learn all the science and details of what is going on with the water. What I have learned from keeping everything from guppies to salt water, and Discus is your fish are your babies and the price does not matter. You took them into your home and the only way they can live is if you get it right. Every failure feels personal and hurts. I felt your pain in the words you posted before. 

See if this makes more sense and helps.
Here is the cook book version:

1.	You are changing out the water because the fish poop and pee and what they “exhale” builds up and too much will kill your fish. In the little tank is would be like being closed up in the bathroom all the time and the toilet, exhaust fan, and running water don’t work, but somebody puts food under the door and you have to “go” … yuck!
2.	The more you change the more sewer water you remove, so more is better.
3.	The only problem with changing any amount is sudden changes in the water shock the fish and will kill them, maybe even faster, than the sewer water. The changes you most need to worry about in your situation are:
a.	TEMPERATURE
b.	Chlorine​4.	The “grilling” recipe:
a.	Fill a clean plastic trash can with clear cold water from your tap.
b.	Add a few drops of plain, inexpensive, de-chlorinator.
c.	Aerate or circulate the water with an air stone or pump of any kind if you have one, if not just leave the lid open enough to let air circulate.
d.	If you are heating the tank the fish are in, heat the trash can water to the same temperature. This may be the most important step for your specific situation. If you are not heating your tank then just letting it sit overnight will take care of it and that is all you need to do.
e.	~24 hours later drain the amount you want to change from the tank and refill from your trashcan. More is better. Trash cans are not too expensive so nearing 100% is not a bad idea.
f.	Rinse and repeat for the next change out.​It really isn’t any harder than that. You can get into ammonia and nitrogen cycles and how much acid is in the water, etc. but for what you need to accomplish don’t worry about it. Just follow my directions and you can keep your fish in the temporary home for quite a while and they will do just fine. Once you get past this let’s talk about the nitrogen cycle and I promise I will try to make it easy. Once you master that cookbook recipe and you will already know this one, you can keep anything you want to spend the time on.


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## Nereus7 (Jun 13, 2012)

Glad I skipped college and took building trades. Fiddy grand is a (don't want to catch a violation) education!! Just dry it and look into how to fix your house. You got the aquarium thing. That's 10x harder than drywall and paint.


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> While I'm not, truthfully, following anything you or Rod are saying above, let me address this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Short answer, and I don't mean to be harsh, NO.

Do not ever add chlorinated water dirrectly to the tank. 
Do not ever add water that is not very close to the same temperature to the tank.

Reasons: Temperature = shock = any disease takes hold fast or the just die outright.
Chlorine = Dead bacteria = Dead tank. You are not worried about that in your emergency situation because you are doing the same thing bennificial bacteria do by doing the huge daily change out, but in a normal tank, NO NO NO = DEAD DEAD DEAD


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> BTW,
> 
> This flood disaster from this one fish tank is costing us OVER $50,000 in repairs, based on the estimate from the contracting company that's working here now...
> 
> How about that? 50 GRAND PLUS for keeping goldfish...


I don't mean to keep clogging up your thread but this worries me. I am an electrical engineer by training and am the Control Systems Manager for one of the best Mechanical and General contractors in Texas. The electrical will dry out and is probably not harmed in any permanent way. The structure will dry and is probably not harmed in any permanent way. $50K for drywall, paint, wall paper, carpet, hardwood flooring, etc. sounds ridiculous! Does that number include a HOME THEATER SYSTEM? I said that with all caps because mine is awesome and I have a LOT less than what it would take to fix my house and replace it and get to $50K. GOOD GRIEF, go to Home Depot and price the best drywall and paint and flooring and see how much you have left for labor! I don't know what kind of mansion you live in, but that is some house if a 30 gallon tank did that much damage!


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Wow, dude! Don't know what to say. I hope insurance covers you. I know I had to throw a couple of hypothetical tank disaster situations at my insurance guy to feel good about paying for insurance. I hope you're only out you're deductible!


THIS is precisely the problem -- NO ONE knows what to say; NO ONE has even HEARD of a fish tank causing THIS MUCH damage EVER in the history of fishkeeping globally...and all this happened because I wanted to SAVE A BLACK MOOR'S LIFE...

My entire life is in ruins now because of this fish odyssey...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Nereus7 said:


> Glad I skipped college and took building trades. Fiddy grand is a (don't want to catch a violation) education!! Just dry it and look into how to fix your house. You got the aquarium thing. That's 10x harder than drywall and paint.


Too late. The work has begun, and a team of contractors, electricians, engineers and insurance adjusters are on the case.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Rod4Rodger said:


> Short answer, and I don't mean to be harsh, NO.
> 
> Do not ever add chlorinated water dirrectly to the tank.


Wait a minute, Rod -- I was told SEVERAL TIMES and even by Seachem themselves that it is PERFECTLY FINE to put the Prime IN THE TANK FIRST before adding the new water...and that it's perfectly safe to do so. 



> Do not ever add water that is not very close to the same temperature to the tank.


I have had no problems thus far adding cool water to the tank that may have been slightly cooler than the room temperature; the goldies seem to be fine...



> Reasons: Temperature = shock = any disease takes hold fast or the just die outright.
> Chlorine = Dead bacteria = Dead tank. You are not worried about that in your emergency situation because you are doing the same thing bennificial bacteria do by doing the huge daily change out, but in a normal tank, NO NO NO = DEAD DEAD DEAD


But I am using Seachem PRIME to eliminate the CHLORINE you keep referring to in my tap water -- Prime is a water conditioner...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Rod4Rodger said:


> I don't mean to keep clogging up your thread but this worries me. I am an electrical engineer by training and am the Control Systems Manager for one of the best Mechanical and General contractors in Texas. The electrical will dry out and is probably not harmed in any permanent way. The structure will dry and is probably not harmed in any permanent way. $50K for drywall, paint, wall paper, carpet, hardwood flooring, etc. sounds ridiculous! Does that number include a HOME THEATER SYSTEM? I said that with all caps because mine is awesome and I have a LOT less than what it would take to fix my house and replace it and get to $50K. GOOD GRIEF, go to Home Depot and price the best drywall and paint and flooring and see how much you have left for labor! I don't know what kind of mansion you live in, but that is some house if a 30 gallon tank did that much damage!


Rod,

No worries about "clogging up the thread" -- I appreciate all and any assistance I can get with this disaster...

It's too late to interrupt the flow of work now -- a contracting company is involved, there are water extraction fans all over our house, the floors are ripped up as is all the carpeting (no, we don't live in a mansion) and everything is just a mess...so getting a home improvement education right now isn't on the agenda. We just want this to be FIXED so we can move on and live in our house again.

But I admit -- the quote this jag-off gave us for these estimates seems off the wall and asinine; it DOES seem like somewhere along the line, these a-holes just padded this job to make it a HECK of a lot worse than it really was. Here's the thing, though: When they took digital flood/moisture readings with their device throughout the house, it DID beep in most places indicating much of the flooring was soaked through and through from this leak -- our master bedroom, which sits adjacent to the wall the tank was on, exhibited moist carpets, so the water leaked into THAT room as well...our house is just a total f'ing wreck...

Our insurance adjuster is coming back out tomorrow morning to argue with the contractor a-holes and talk about some of their "repairs" to our home; I will keep you informed...

With regard to the "30 gallon" comment, and how you can't believe this tank made this mess, well, we actually had a 60 gallon, and that is the one that cracked and leaked -- were you saying that because HALF the water of this tank was gone you referred to it as a "30 gallon tank"?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Nereus7 said:


> I tried to make an ice cream cone... I dropped the ice cream scoup and 60 grand later I still havn't gotten my hypochondriach lactose issues covered... I'll never trust a chocolate chip again, I know that... - N


_What?_

Do you honestly find what I am going through right now _joke worthy?_


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Oh boy...

You sure as **** answered my question.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I have several tanks, and I do anywhere from 50 to 90% water changes on all of them, It wouldn't be feasable for me to have that much water in barrels waiting to change water. I use a python to drain and fill the tank. I add Prime to the tank per directions, and fill with water from the tap. As long as the temp is close to the tank temp its perfectly fine. I do this with $300 plecos with no problem what so ever.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Nereus7 said:


> Looooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww


Please stop derailing this thread. If you have suggestions to help its fine, but to the op this is serious.


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Wait a minute, Rod -- I was told SEVERAL TIMES and even by Seachem themselves that it is PERFECTLY FINE to put the Prime IN THE TANK FIRST before adding the new water...and that it's perfectly safe to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Their water conditioner is good stuff. I buy their Dicus buffer in bulk and have about $500 of Purigen in my back up filter. I do not like slime enhancement addatives for a lot of reasons I will not get into but they have their place. In your case, I don't think you need them. I doubt they will hurt much because of the frequent change outs, but they do burden the system and your "bathroom" is already crowded so I would not use them. When you are back up, if you want the clearest, cleanest, water you have ever seen, Purigen.

Now you hit a spot near my heart that is personal so forgive my rant. Please feel free to quote me, Roger Whitlock, when you contact the SeaChem factory and talk to Doug, Greg, or Tina. I have been in Texas for a while but I respect them all and consider them all friends. If you do talk to them please tell them my email is still the same, [email protected] and let them know I would love to hear from them.

SeaChem is the most awesome company. They have incredible dry mix production lines and really cool liquid mix lines. The place smells like the most wonderful garlic when they are making their appitite enhancers. The "label room" is 60 feet high with labels on big rolls that fit on the packaging machines for every product they make. The research labs are my baby! I designed and programmed and my men built the fume hood controls, the laboratory ventilation, and pressurization. I cannot say more about my respect for that company or their owner, Doctor Greg Morin. He is one hell of a man.

Doctor Morin has been a friend for many years. I miss him now that I am in Texas. I automated his factory in Madison, Georgia. He is one of the most brilliant men I have ever known. He got his Ph.D. from Emory University. The laboratories at the SeaChem factory are all running on my controllers, my software, my design. I spent a lot of time there and they are good, passionate, caring people.

That said, take your chances. Doctor Morin has two of the biggest aquariums I have ever seen outside of something like the Atlanta Aquarium IN HIS OFFICE! This is a guess, but mine is 240 gallons; His look about twice that size. Every office and cubical has an aquarium or terrarium. They have every eco system you can imagine. A couple of days a week they start the day doing maintenance. The more and bigger the tanks the more seniority a person has. They have a gym and a wonderful lunchroom with all the kitchen and cook out hardware for their employees. They spent big bucks to be environmentally friendly.

If Doctor Morin tells you not to worry, I bow to his expertise. If anybody else there told you that, eventually you will find out I am right. You can bet on this though, if anybody there told you not to worry about temperature shock and that it is ok to add chlorinated water dirrectly to the tank, they believed it. Also, they don't add unaged, not temperature ballanced, PH ballanced, and hardness ballanced water to their tanks when they do their maintenance. I have been there too many times while it was happening and saw it personally. Goldfish are very forgiving, so maybe they told you that and probably you will be alright.

I once had guppies living in polluted water from Monsanto in the Research Triangel Park, NC where I cooped while I was in college. They thought the water was dead, but the guppies did fine and ate the pollution crap! Go for it, or put the changeout water in a trash can overnight... sigh I feel your pain and want to help and know how, but there is an old Texas saying about leading a horse to water...


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Rod,
> 
> No worries about "clogging up the thread" -- I appreciate all and any assistance I can get with this disaster...
> 
> ...


Aye, 30 gallons got out.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Honestly, and I hate to say this, but $50K for repairs doesn't sound unreasonable. Realize that not only are they replacing drywall, maybe some electrical, hardwood floors, etc. but they also have to get rebuilding permits (which are a BEAR, trust me), inspections on EVERYTHING to make sure what they don't replace is still structurally sound and up to code, and also pay overhead for not just the contractor and his employees, but all the beaureaucratic BS to get those guys there in the first place.

Insurance companies, in my experience, are professional money wasters. They spent over $100K rebuilding my dad's attached 2 car garage. Had to re-pour the footings twice because the county inspectors said they weren't up to code.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra for now dont worry what the discus folk are telling you, just do your daily water changes, make sure you get as much crap out of the gravel as possible, feed a tiny amount of food 4 times a day and have a beer and relax. im sure you dont need the added stress of having to mess about with leaving water over night etc!!!

re the prime in the tank vs the prime in the water first argument, well ive always put it in the bucket then filled with new water only because ive got OCD and it will make me feel weird if i dont think its mixed enough! i read that if you put it in the tank first as soon as it comes into contact with chlorine etc it will neutralize them. my research hasnt taken me to water conditioners yet but when it does ill come back with a better informed opinion.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> I have several tanks, and I do anywhere from 50 to 90% water changes on all of them, It wouldn't be feasable for me to have that much water in barrels waiting to change water. I use a python to drain and fill the tank. I add Prime to the tank per directions, and fill with water from the tap. As long as the temp is close to the tank temp its perfectly fine. I do this with $300 plecos with no problem what so ever.


Thank you SO much, Susan; this has put my mind at ease!

So, it is okay to add Prime to the TANK first, and then add the fresh tap water...yes?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Please stop derailing this thread. If you have suggestions to help its fine, but to the op this is serious.


Thank you VERY much Susan -- I appreciate the assistance with this problem.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> ClinicaTerra for now dont worry what the discus folk are telling you, just do your daily water changes, make sure you get as much crap out of the gravel as possible, feed a tiny amount of food 4 times a day and have a beer and relax. im sure you dont need the added stress of having to mess about with leaving water over night etc!!!


Thank you, Zero! 

I appreciate the input and assistance -- so, I can continue doing BI-DAILY water changes, or is that too much? I have been changing water twice daily...

And as for feeding, I have been giving enough for four fish but once a day -- not good?



> re the prime in the tank vs the prime in the water first argument, well ive always put it in the bucket then filled with new water only because ive got OCD and it will make me feel weird if i dont think its mixed enough! i read that if you put it in the tank first as soon as it comes into contact with chlorine etc it will neutralize them. my research hasnt taken me to water conditioners yet but when it does ill come back with a better informed opinion.


Indeed, I have OCD too so I know where you're coming from; Susan put my mind at ease regarding what to do with the Prime, but your research has shown that as soon as chlorine hits the tank water treated with Prime first, that it will neutralize it?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Thank you SO much, Susan; this has put my mind at ease!
> 
> So, it is okay to add Prime to the TANK first, and then add the fresh tap water...yes?


Thats how I do all my tanks.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> Thats how I do all my tanks.


Thank you SO much... *w3


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## lkfishy (May 13, 2012)

What a nightmare! I wish you the best, and I hope your fishes make it through. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be, especially if you truly love aquariums and want them to be a part of your house. My first thought would be to get my tank up and running again as soon as possible but money and emotions will probably make that difficult. Good luck, and I hope one day you will be able to have your tank and your fish safely back in yours/their home. Maybe get a slightly smaller tank to start up again? Like a 35-45, you can find them on craigslist for 30-50 bucks.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

lkfishy said:


> What a nightmare! I wish you the best, and I hope your fishes make it through. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be, especially if you truly love aquariums and want them to be a part of your house. My first thought would be to get my tank up and running again as soon as possible but money and emotions will probably make that difficult. Good luck, and I hope one day you will be able to have your tank and your fish safely back in yours/their home. Maybe get a slightly smaller tank to start up again? Like a 35-45, you can find them on craigslist for 30-50 bucks.


Thank you. This has been a DISASTER and our home is totally ripped apart; we can't believe a fish tank caused all this damage...


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Thank you, Zero!
> 
> I appreciate the input and assistance -- so, I can continue doing BI-DAILY water changes, or is that too much? I have been changing water twice daily...


if you have the time for twice daily then yeah continue. dont forget to keep testing the water and make sure all the prams are in the safe zone. also in such a small enclosure the positive mineral ions will be depleted rather quickly so regular water changes is very important!



ClinicaTerra said:


> And as for feeding, I have been giving enough for four fish but once a day -- not good?


no! what ive found about gold fish (ive been doing a lot of reading on them because of you!) there grazing fish and they have long intestines, so its better for the fish to feed small amounts often, so if possible feed a small amount 4 times a day and try and get more veg based food with the ocassional blood worm treat. best thing is it get a good quality specific goldfish food like hikari, and sprinella 20 flake (cant recall the make but im sure if you google sprinella 20 flake it will come up with it). id alternate pellet and sprinella for every feed. if you know what i mean?



ClinicaTerra said:


> Indeed, I have OCD too so I know where you're coming from; Susan put my mind at ease regarding what to do with the Prime, but your research has shown that as soon as chlorine hits the tank water treated with Prime first, that it will neutralize it?


well ive read that once, ive not really researched water conditioners in debth but ill make that my top priority...but in all honesty, if susan says its ok with her 5 million tanks then im sure its fine!



regarding to your putting the pebbles in, you got to treat the glass like the most precious fragile gem! never jsut chuck stuff in, place it gently.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> if you have the time for twice daily then yeah continue. dont forget to keep testing the water and make sure all the prams are in the safe zone. also in such a small enclosure the positive mineral ions will be depleted rather quickly so regular water changes is very important!


Well, I figured if I changed water twice daily, I didn't need to test routinely now because their water IS being swapped out twice a day...what more would I be able to do even if tests DID come back out of whack? Indeed, per what you say here about ions being depleted, I am doing the water changes DAILY. 



> no! what ive found about gold fish (ive been doing a lot of reading on them because of you!) there grazing fish and they have long intestines, so its better for the fish to feed small amounts often


Glad I could be inspirational...but what does grazing and long intestines have to do with feeding small amounts often? 



> so if possible feed a small amount 4 times a day and try and get more veg based food with the ocassional blood worm treat. best thing is it get a good quality specific goldfish food like hikari, and sprinella 20 flake (cant recall the make but im sure if you google sprinella 20 flake it will come up with it). id alternate pellet and sprinella for every feed. if you know what i mean?


I know about the Hikari...



> well ive read that once, ive not really researched water conditioners in debth but ill make that my top priority...but in all honesty, if susan says its ok with her 5 million tanks then im sure its fine!


Tanks -- pun intended -- a lot...



> regarding to your putting the pebbles in, you got to treat the glass like the most precious fragile gem! never jsut chuck stuff in, place it gently.


Okay. Is there anything that can be placed at the bottom of the glass before the gravel goes in to better protect it?


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ill reply after watching the opening ceramony.......so proud to be english right now!!!!!! (till they mess up hahahaha)


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

You talking about the Olympics?

If so, go U.S. and UK!


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

yep!!! the ceramonys just started....are they not showing it over there?

yeah go USA and UK!!!


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> yep!!! the ceramonys just started....are they not showing it over there?
> 
> yeah go USA and UK!!!


Yeah, they probably are...I'm not near a TV because our house is a DISASTER after this tank leak...EVERYTHING is ripped up...

On a side note, Zero: I added a bubble bar to the 10 gallon tank, borrowed from the 60 gallon that now sits cracked and broken...will this help with aeration and health of the goldfish?


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

it will but water changes will do wonders.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> it will but water changes will do wonders.


Oh, indeed, White Glove...I am doing BI DAILY water changes...

Is this too much, or should I drop back to once a day do you think?

Thank you...


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Yeah, they probably are...I'm not near a TV because our house is a DISASTER after this tank leak...EVERYTHING is ripped up...
> 
> On a side note, Zero: I added a bubble bar to the 10 gallon tank, borrowed from the 60 gallon that now sits cracked and broken...will this help with aeration and health of the goldfish?



oh my god it was amamzing!!!!! all the teams are coming out now so got time to post. i think tho anyone watching whos not english wouldnt get the ceramony at all. was just a montage of everything english...loved it!!!!!

im sure it will help aeration but the health, no! water changes will do that and good food little and often.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> oh my god it was amamzing!!!!! all the teams are coming out now so got time to post. i think tho anyone watching whos not english wouldnt get the ceramony at all. was just a montage of everything english...loved it!!!!!


I said I couldn't get near a TV because our house is totally wrecked and a mess right now with floors and walls ripped up...*sad*sad



> im sure it will help aeration but the health, no! water changes will do that and good food little and often.


Okay; well, I'm definitely doing the bi-daily water changes right now...


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Well, I figured if I changed water twice daily, I didn't need to test routinely now because their water IS being swapped out twice a day...what more would I be able to do even if tests DID come back out of whack? Indeed, per what you say here about ions being depleted, I am doing the water changes DAILY.


theres nothing more you can do and im sure it will keep the prams down so keep with the 50% twice a day water changes. 



ClinicaTerra said:


> Glad I could be inspirational...but what does grazing and long intestines have to do with feeding small amounts often?


because a lot of food at once will release gasses and make it harder to digest if i remember correctly. so as there grazing fish a little food ofter will ease the stress put on there digestice tract and lessen the chance of bad health. there designed to eat little and often basicly.





ClinicaTerra said:


> Okay. Is there anything that can be placed at the bottom of the glass before the gravel goes in to better protect it?


a lot of people when putting togeather marine tanks will put something down then add the live rock onto it so it doesnt put pressure on the glass bottom. ill google it now and let you know. pretty sure its just styrofoam. you dont necessarly need to add something if your careful but if it will make you feel better then go ahead.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> theres nothing more you can do and im sure it will keep the prams down so keep with the 50% twice a day water changes.


Okay. 



> because a lot of food at once will release gasses and make it harder to digest if i remember correctly. so as there grazing fish a little food ofter will ease the stress put on there digestice tract and lessen the chance of bad health. there designed to eat little and often basicly.


Okay. 



> a lot of people when putting togeather marine tanks will put something down then add the live rock onto it so it doesnt put pressure on the glass bottom. ill google it now and let you know. pretty sure its just styrofoam. you dont necessarly need to add something if your careful but if it will make you feel better then go ahead.


Yes! I have read about the STYROFOAM thing -- please research that if you can, and get back to me...I would GREATLY appreciate it!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Styrofoam is used between the tank and the mount to even out and distribute hard points.

In the tank itself some use 1/4 plastic grid egg crate and of couse the sand or other substrate to distribute the weight of the rocks over a larger area.

my .02


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> Styrofoam is used between the tank and the mount to even out and distribute hard points.
> 
> In the tank itself some use 1/4 plastic grid egg crate and of couse the sand or other substrate to distribute the weight of the rocks over a larger area.
> 
> my .02


Bob,

The egg crate can be used in the TANK ITSELF, in the WATER? Will this pretty much guarantee no cracks or leaks (along with the styrofoam)?


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

ok so what ive found is if you use a thin layer and glue it down real good with something like crazy glue it shouldnt come lose BUT if it does it can shoot up and shoot; fish, rocks, gravel etc up out the top of the tank. ive read someone suggesting using plexiglass and silicone. i personally woulsnt risk it, jsut be gentle with putting stuff in there.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

the egg crate thing is recommended too.
read this:

How safe is Styrofoam under substrate ?


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

Not singling anybody out but concerning all the comments about adding tap water directly to the tank and de-chlorinating it there.

You aren't really recommending putting tap water directly in a tank with a cycled filter and adding the de-chlorinator to the tank? I am not saying you haven’t done it or that you haven’t gotten away with it. The de-chlorinator is not going to hurt anything, but the chlorine and if the water temperature is much different the combination can be lethal to your nitrogen cycle. If you are talking 20% probably not a big deal, but start getting into the 50-90% range and it is akin to Russian roulette with a Simi-automatic. Probably all of us did back in the day before we learned better. Most of the time the hits on the bacteria were not enough to kill the tank, but it can’t be good for it and maybe the sick fish were a result; will never know. Goldfish are tough and quiet resilient, but bacteria aren’t and the bacteria are the key to a healthy aquarium.
I quit MANY years ago when I had a tank emergency and cleaned it up by doing several big changes just like that, dump the water in straight out of the garden hose and pour the de-chlorinator in at the same time, let the temperature fall where it may. I killed the bacteria. Everything in the substrate released into the tank water and overnight it was almost black and stank! I actually managed to save the fish with continued change outs, but I went back to the trash can overnight with the de-chlorinator there, added live bacteria, and extended a two day emergency to a three week ordeal.
How much more trouble is putting it in a trash can today and adding it to the tank tomorrow? The hardest part is the space, but invest in a ~50 gallon plastic trash can. Put a bubbler in it and if you use a heater in your tank, but one in there too. With the 10 gallon, do your change outs and just dump the fresh water in the trash can. De-chlorinator is optional for 50 gallons with a bubbler and you are only using 10 at a time. When you get your new tank you already have what you need for change outs on it. You don’t need the big change outs with goldfish in a big tank, but even if you do 20 gallons, you will always go back in with safe, aged, clean, warm, de-chlorinated water that is as close to what they are already in as it can be without the nitrogen. Your fish will be healthier and the technique is what you need for harder to keep species even marine and Discus. 
Olympics – Are they planning to air the bicycling? Chris Froom, Mark Cavadish, Bradley Wiggins, the Britts are going to kick our butts, but TJ Vangarten will hold up the American end quiet well.


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## Rod4Rodger (Jan 2, 2012)

zero said:


> ok so what ive found is if you use a thin layer and glue it down real good with something like crazy glue it shouldnt come lose BUT if it does it can shoot up and shoot; fish, rocks, gravel etc up out the top of the tank. ive read someone suggesting using plexiglass and silicone. i personally woulsnt risk it, jsut be gentle with putting stuff in there.


I always glue things down with food surface rated 100% clear silicone. Is cyclocynimide (super glue) safe and does it last?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> ok so what ive found is if you use a thin layer and glue it down real good with something like crazy glue it shouldnt come lose BUT if it does it can shoot up and shoot; fish, rocks, gravel etc up out the top of the tank. ive read someone suggesting using plexiglass and silicone. i personally woulsnt risk it, jsut be gentle with putting stuff in there.


WOW...

I definitely don't wanna mess with this now...

So, let's say for a minute I have the contractors stabilize this floor so we can put a new tank in -- so long as the floor is stable and level and the tank sits on an even, good stand, there should be no reason to worry the tank is gonna crack again, given that no hot water is used to clean it or I don't damage it with gravel being "shoved in," as we have been discussing?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

lkfishy said:


> What a nightmare! I wish you the best, and I hope your fishes make it through. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be, especially if you truly love aquariums and want them to be a part of your house. My first thought would be to get my tank up and running again as soon as possible but money and emotions will probably make that difficult. Good luck, and I hope one day you will be able to have your tank and your fish safely back in yours/their home. Maybe get a slightly smaller tank to start up again? Like a 35-45, you can find them on craigslist for 30-50 bucks.


Lk,

There was something else I wanted to reply to with regard to your comment above -- you mentioned getting a slightly smaller tank to start up again, and that's what my wife wants to do...I would consider that, but will four fancy goldfish be okay in something like a 35 to 45 gallon? That's what I worry about...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

zero said:


> the egg crate thing is recommended too.
> read this:
> 
> How safe is Styrofoam under substrate ?


According to what I read here, Zero, most are saying the egg crate SHOULD NOT be used, nor the styrofoam, because it can dislodge and rocket stuff out of the tank (like you pointed out)...

Although I really don't see how that could happen...or why it would.

At any rate, I DON'T think it's something I want to mess with. Thanks for all your research!


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah there showing every sport. If you go onto bbc.co.uk I'm sure you can find a link or something to watch it. The bbc are the channel that's the official tv channel for the games.


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