# TYTH DIY overflow/sump build



## TypeYourTextHere

I have a few threads inquiring about different issues with my project and it's progress/setbacks. I decided to start a new thread that will serve as a journal and help with troubleshooting it.

This is the 1" overflow I have built(at least 2/3 of it).



The issue I am having with it now is when there is water flowing in it air is getting into the siphon tube which is slowing the flow. I let the siphon tube sit with water in it all night and no air got into it so I know that it is air tight. The inlet of the overflow sits about 1 7/16" below the waterline and it starts to overflow at roughly 300 GPH (EDIT: I remeasured it as 360 GPH). As far as I know a 1" pipe should be able to handle 375 GPH. There is a slight tornado effect at times and other times it has what looks like a waterfall effect on the inlet. I am open to suggestions as to what to do.


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## drunkenbeast

Good luck with this I am really interested in how it turns out. what are you doing to fill the tank?


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## TypeYourTextHere

I am planning on using a CA 1800 as a return from two 12.5 gallon Sterilite tubs that I am going to plumb together. I am estimating that the sump will hold 12-16 gallons of water give or take.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I just remembered the other thing I was going to ask about... How do I get rid of that awful smell from the PVC cement that is lingering in the overflow? After about a day of letting it cure I leak tested the overflow and I about choked to death on the fumes when I started the siphon on the U-Tube. I can't imagine the fumes will be good for the fish, and dont't care to leave it to chance.


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## TypeYourTextHere

Here is the completed overflow. The only thing to do now is figure out how to leak test the thing being as it is 30" long and I don't have a bucket that big.


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## jrman83

You can get a puller air pump to vacate the air. How does this thing go wherever it's going? Doesn't seem attractive to be hanging in a tank. What size tank?


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## TypeYourTextHere

jrman83 said:


> You can get a puller air pump to vacate the air. How does this thing go wherever it's going? Doesn't seem attractive to be hanging in a tank. What size tank?


At this point I think I am going to have to get an Aqualifter. As far as the overflow going in the tank, I am putting it in a 75 gallon tank and the only thing that will be visible is the two intakes. They will be painted black against a dark blue background. I put them in the tank briefly to see what it looks like and they only go about 1/2 way into the tank, plus its a planted tank so it will be mostly hidden from view. This is a work in progress for sure. I have been able to test the flow rate and it appears to be good so far but without having the Aqualifter I am not certain.
I have been talking to the guy who designed this version and he says that his 3/4" version gets the maximum flow possible with the Aqualifter attached to it.
This is what my tank looks like right now. As you can see there quite a few plants in it to hide the overflow.


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## TypeYourTextHere

After I completed the overflow I decided not to use it and that I needed to make a taller one. I am still keeping the same design, but instead of the tubes being 8" tall I made them 15" tall. As I continued to research DIY PVC overflows I found that the taller they are the more flow they get. Also, The completed one was not completely straight and I am super anal about right angles.


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## jrman83

How much more cost until you add up to a CS90 from CPR Aquatics?


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## TypeYourTextHere

jrman83 said:


> How much more cost until you add up to a CS90 from CPR Aquatics?


It only cost me roughly $15 to make. The site is updating now so I can't veiw prices, but I can only guess that would cost $100. I still saved 70% and it works just as well.


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## jrman83

How come this tank was never entered into the Tank of the Month?


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## TypeYourTextHere

jrman83 said:


> How come this tank was never entered into the Tank of the Month?


I guess I felt it didn't measure up to the occasion. Besides, I need to prune and clean it still.


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## beaslbob

Looks good to me. Basically similiar to my "beaslbob traps" or pvc overflows.

I do put the Overflow section higher which traps more water in the "u" trap during power outages.

I also just used the return pump or power heads to form a venturi to suck out the air in the hob siphon part.

But overall basically the same design.

And yes I do get the pvc cement smell. But it did no seem to affect the fish or corals in my mixed reef marine system.

my .02


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## TypeYourTextHere

I haven't been working on it to much lately but i did check the seal on my airline that starts the siphon on one side of the overflow this morning to find that when I siliconed it yesterday not only did I get silicone in the airline but the freaking thing leaks air. I resiliconed it this morning and now I have to wait again for it to cure. Hopefully it will be leak free this time, otherwise I am going to test how it holds up against a hammer.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I got my CA 1800 pump ordered the other day. Hopefully it will be here by Friday. I need to complete my overflow before then so I can test the overflow's ability to keep up with the pump. I don't foresee it being an issue but it's always better to be safe than sorry, especially when you are dealing with 15 gallons of water possibly going onto your floor.


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## beaslbob

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I haven't been working on it to much lately but i did check the seal on my airline that starts the siphon on one side of the overflow this morning to find that when I siliconed it yesterday not only did I get silicone in the airline but the freaking thing leaks air. I resiliconed it this morning and now I have to wait again for it to cure. Hopefully it will be leak free this time, otherwise I am going to test how it holds up against a hammer.


If this is on the over the side part what I do is use rigid air line tubing, drill a tight fitting hole in the pvc, and glue in place with epoxy plastic weld.

Just a thought

Worth at most .02


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## TypeYourTextHere

beaslbob said:


> If this is on the over the side part what I do is use rigid air line tubing, drill a tight fitting hole in the pvc, and glue in place with epoxy plastic weld.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> Worth at most .02


I actually fixed that last week. I resiliconed the airline that I am using and it's fine now. I thought about using Polyethylene(I think that's what it's called) but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get connectors to attach to it.


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## beaslbob

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I actually fixed that last week. I resiliconed the airline that I am using and it's fine now. I thought about using Polyethylene(I think that's what it's called) but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get connectors to attach to it.


You're just too quick for me then.

Glad it's working. *old dude

.02


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## TypeYourTextHere

I just had a thought, is there any media I should put in my sump as well as the filter mesh bio media and occasional charcoal? I am using unconventional filter media because I am cheap. Currently I am planning on using a floor buffer pad as the mesh to strain out larger stuff like fish food and other larger particles, Quilt batting for the smaller particles, Nylon scrub pads for the wet/dry bio media and occasionally charcoal for any other chemicals that may contaminate my tank.


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## beaslbob

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I just had a thought, is there any media I should put in my sump as well as the filter mesh bio media and occasional charcoal? I am using unconventional filter media because I am cheap. Currently I am planning on using a floor buffer pad as the mesh to strain out larger stuff like fish food and other larger particles, Quilt batting for the smaller particles, Nylon scrub pads for the wet/dry bio media and occasionally charcoal for any other chemicals that may contaminate my tank.


I used a wastbasket with the bottom cut out and replaced by a window screen on my 55g mixed reef marine system. for filter material I used crushed oyster shells with a screen then red lancscape lava rocks on the screen. that was to spread out the water going into the shells and the screen prevent the rocks from sinking onto the shells.

But that was also for a marine system and did increase calcium. Perhaps not the best idea for a fw tank.

You could try pond stores. they have some unique ideas.

my .02


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## TypeYourTextHere

That is a thought. 
I got a small powerhead today instead of an Aqualifter that I attached to the lines running out of the siphon u tubes and did a water test on the overflow. both sides were able to keep up with the water flow that was coming from the washer hook ups on full blast. I am simulating a power outage at the moment to see how it reacts if said event were to occur. Hopefully things work out like I want them to.


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## TypeYourTextHere

Another thought occurred to me just now. Instead of having a ball valve in line from the return pump to the display tank to restrict flow (option 1), would having a tee with a ball valve going back into the sump (option 2) make a lighter load on the return pump opposed to just restricting the flow of the pump altogether?


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## phil_pl

Are you wanting to restrict your return pump to make sure it wont overpower your overflow? I don't understand the design of your overflow completely. Will your entire overflow be sitting in the tank or will it be hanging off the back? Will your intakes be totally under water or with they be at the surface of the water?


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## TypeYourTextHere

phil_pl said:


> Are you wanting to restrict your return pump to make sure it wont overpower your overflow? I don't understand the design of your overflow completely. Will your entire overflow be sitting in the tank or will it be hanging off the back? Will your intakes be totally under water or with they be at the surface of the water?


As stated in earlier posts I am going to be using a 1" HOB PVC overflow. The point of the pic I posted was to display the best option for controlling the flow rate of the return pump without restricting the pump causing undue stress and shortening the life of the pump.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I just finished installing the bulkheads I am going to use to plumb the two sump tubs together. They are only about 1/16" - 1/8" off from each other. I figure that is close enough for what I am using it for.

Here is a pic



Edit: It just occurred to me that I am using two 1" overflows and have a 1" pipe connecting the two tubs. I am thinking that things will work out fine as far as the sump being able to keep up with the overflow, but my brain is fried ATM and I can't think straight.


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## jrman83

I can see where the DIY ideas could run into problems like this....not knowing if your return pump is properly matched to the flow rate coming from the overflow (I'm sure you have some idea). Very easy to match if you know the values. Nonetheless, a ball valve is not a bad idea to have in place. If you are pretty close on those values (flow in/out) I doubt you will cause much stress on your pump. Don't forget about figuring riser length and loss of pump capacity.

Personally, I would only use a mag pump. A tad more expensive, but parts to rebuild them are everywhere. That is their big selling point. Not sure if that is true with CA.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I went with the CA 1800 mainly because of cost. It was only $39 total. I am trying to spend as little as possible on this project. My whole point of doing this is to build a filter that in theory works just as good, if not better than a store bought one. I have done as much research on these types of filters that I am 100% confident that it will be successful, and over time I am planning on replacing it with better parts. My only real concern is water leaking in the plumbing from the tank to the sump. 
Now that I had my nap, I realized that the sump should not overflow due to the 1" pipe that is connecting the two tubs being as the pump will only pump as much as it is going to be fed. Plus I can always add another bulkhead and pipe to the design if it is needed, or go with a larger diameter pipe since drilling glass is not an issue.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I did my first leak test on the sump tubs and found that when I placed the o-rings on the inside (wet side) the bulkheads leak. I have them sitting full of water at the moment, with the o-rings on the outside (dry side) of the bulkheads and there has not been a leak yet. Even though the o-rings are normally supposed to be on the inside I figured I would try them on the outside anyway.
There is about twice the amount of water in them for the leak test then will normally be when it is running simply because I figure that a leak will be more likely to occur with the extra pressure on the o-rings.


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## phil_pl

TypeYourTextHere said:


> As stated in earlier posts I am going to be using a 1" HOB PVC overflow. The point of the pic I posted was to display the best option for controlling the flow rate of the return pump without restricting the pump causing undue stress and shortening the life of the pump.



I think this could be a very good way to restrict your return. I am not sure if it will prolong the life of the pump.....yet. I will be researching this one to see what I can find.


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## TypeYourTextHere

phil_pl said:


> I think this could be a very good way to restrict your return. I am not sure if it will prolong the life of the pump.....yet. I will be researching this one to see what I can find.


I think I worded that wrong. What I meant was that it would keep from bogging down the pump and allow it to work at full capacity without having to bog down the pump at all.


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## beaslbob

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I just finished installing the bulkheads I am going to use to plumb the two sump tubs together. They are only about 1/16" - 1/8" off from each other. I figure that is close enough for what I am using it for.
> 
> Here is a pic
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: It just occurred to me that I am using two 1" overflows and have *a 1" pipe connecting the two tubs*. I am thinking that things will work out fine as far as the sump being able to keep up with the overflow, but my brain is fried ATM and I can't think straight.


I thought so until I ran a 1'" pipe between refugium and sump. Better make it more like 2" though. You don't want a size anywhere near the diameter of your drain from the display. (the drain must be the limiting factor not the connecting pipe).

Try a reducing bushing to form a flat flange so the gasket is a flat gasket not an o ring.

The sump should have a much small "foot print" compaired to the filter/refugium area. That way the water level in the sump will vary more making adjustments easier. (or just put a smaller container inside the larger on with the return pump in that container.) 

I run refugiums so the connection between the two containers is much higher so the water level in the refugium area is 2" or so below the top. Then the water overflows to the lower sump area. With the connector low both containers are at the same level making adjustment harder and limiting the amount of water in the filter/refugium container.

Your wet dry looks interesting. I would insure the water flows through it to the bottom so you can put the water higher around it in the filter/refugium section.

And as usual my observations are through the filter of my experience. Which may not be totally accurate for what you're trying to do. *old dude

and hence worth at most.

.02


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## TypeYourTextHere

Actually I was referring to a flat gasket, not an o-ring.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I finally got my pump today so I have been going crazy running to and from the hardware store getting the last bits and pieces. I installed the sump tubs under the tank without any leaks. I have the overflow completed now and only need to get the pipes run from it to the filter portion of the sump. After that I have to drill about 500+ holes in the drawer system that will hold my media to achieve the wet/dry function of the filter. Then it will be on to the return portion.


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## phil_pl

If you haven't already gotten your bio media, you may want to check out MarinePure ceramic bio media. Not quite as cheap as bio balls but they are pretty much amazing. Marine Pure Ceramic Biomedia 1.50" Spheres 2 Quart Box


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## TypeYourTextHere

phil_pl said:


> If you haven't already gotten your bio media, you may want to check out MarinePure ceramic bio media. Not quite as cheap as bio balls but they are pretty much amazing. Marine Pure Ceramic Biomedia 1.50" Spheres 2 Quart Box


OUCH! At that price I think I will stick to the 50 cents per potscrubber that I bought. $50 for 2 quarts of bio media is kinda outrageous IMO.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I got all the plumbing finished and am waiting for the PVC cement to cure a bit longer before I fire everything up and check for leaks.


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## TypeYourTextHere

I finally got it up and running! There are still a few minor tweaks that need to be done and I have to put the media in the filter.
As best as I could see there are no leaks and the only major issue I can see that will be a problem is there is a continuous siphon coming from the powerhead when I have done a simulated power outage. I think if I put a check valve in line that should solve that issue. The sump handles the drainage from the tank during the power outage simulation just fine, and from what I can tell I will need to do something about the fact that the display tank will flood in the event that the overflow is blocked. I will post pics tomorrow.


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## Sasquatch

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I finally got it up and running! There are still a few minor tweaks that need to be done and I have to put the media in the filter.
> As best as I could see there are no leaks and the only major issue I can see that will be a problem is there is a continuous siphon coming from the powerhead when I have done a simulated power outage. I think if I put a check valve in line that should solve that issue. The sump handles the drainage from the tank during the power outage simulation just fine, and from what I can tell I will need to do something about the fact that the display tank will flood in the event that the overflow is blocked. I will post pics tomorrow.[/QUOT
> 
> You can just drill a small hole on your return just below the waterline. That will break your siphon when the water level drops below it.


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## beaslbob

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I finally got it up and running! There are still a few minor tweaks that need to be done and I have to put the media in the filter.
> As best as I could see there are no leaks and the only major issue I can see that will be a problem is there is a continuous siphon coming from the powerhead when I have done a simulated power outage. I think if I put a check valve in line that should solve that issue. The sump handles the drainage from the tank during the power outage simulation just fine, and from what I can tell I will need to do something about the fact that the display tank will flood in the event that the overflow is blocked. I will post pics tomorrow.


If the return line from a siphon then you need to 1) put the return line above the tank's water line, of (2) drill a small hole above the water line point down. The idea is to add air in that line breaking the siphon. 

Leaks are a pain. Good line with them

Glad you are testing. The return siphon was the first problem I had to fix.

my .02


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## TypeYourTextHere

Still working on things. I got it all up and running and now all I have to contend with it quieting the pipes a bit. There are no leaks, and I only have about an inch of water draining back to the sump when simulating a power outage. I attribute most of that to the water that is actually in the pipes.
I decided to go without a spraybar for now. I will get pics posted as soon as I can clean up the horrendous mess in my downstairs room. I can't even walk in here right now.


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## TypeYourTextHere

This is definitely taking me longer to finish than I expected. I had to tear down my tank the other day to move it since the wife rearranged the entire house, literally. I decided that since I was doing that I might as well take advantage of the $1 a gallon sale at Petco and I got a 20 long to use instead of the plastic tubs I was using. I think that will work out a lot better.
I painted the overflow black and I still have not put the sump back together yet because it is taking me forever to silicone the baffles into the 20 gallon sump since it is permanently under the display tank and I can't remove it now. 
I also decided to replace the sand in the tank while I had it torn down since it was sloped severely to one side. I never realized that substrate could smell so bad. It smells exactly like the open drain pipe in my bathroom sink that I still need to fix.
I also found that I had 2 platy fry in the tank that I was unaware of. They were lost in the tank move though. They had gotten to about a quarter inch long. So far all the other fish have been fine. A couple more days and I should be able to complete everything and have it up and running


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## Raymond S.

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I just had a thought, is there any media I should put in my sump as well as the filter mesh bio media and occasional charcoal? I am using unconventional filter media because I am cheap. Currently I am planning on using a floor buffer pad as the mesh to strain out larger stuff like fish food and other larger particles, Quilt batting for the smaller particles, Nylon scrub pads for the wet/dry bio media and occasionally charcoal for any other chemicals that may contaminate my tank.


As this thread is old(saw while looking for DIY sump) I do believe you already have a filter bio-media.
But just in case your not satisfied/w it I thought I'd give you this link to the type I use.
CPR Bio Bale 1 Gallon Best Biological Filte Media White | eBay


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