# Pleco very lethargic and new "aliens"



## Dango (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi

After losing almost all my fish to Ich, I regret to say that I think the last remaining survivor - the pleco - is sick.

I was advised to up the temperature of the tank to 89F in order to kill the Ich. My plec didn't seem to mind too much, but hung around the filter pump a lot.

He has now taken to lying on the bottom of the tank and barely moving - most unusual. He always used to be stuck to the sides of the tank and seemed to be constantly eating. I notice he has a patch on his back that is a different colour - is this velvet? If so, how could he have caught it?


I notice that since the rest of the fish have gone, the snail population has risen - there must be 20+ new snails, all about 1mm in size. I guess these must have just hatched from eggs laid on the plants at some time! Also, there are a few almost translucent things about 1/8" long at most. These are possibly white, maybe colourless and look like a semi circular comb on a string - impossible to photograph! They seem to be attached to the glass and sway with the current of the water. Finally, there are quite a few tiny critters that seem to swim in rapid movements, about 1/8" at a time. They are probably 0.5-1mm long and again, difficult to capture on camera! Anyone have any ideas??

I was hoping to get some more fish this weekend, but I wonder if "patrick" will last that long :-(

Before you ask, water parameters are great. There is no trace of NH3 and the nitrites and nitrates are undetectable. Only thing that is high is the PH - that is around 8.

I haven't been changing the water since the parameters are good. Simply been topping up with clean rainwater.


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## kert1224 (Nov 22, 2010)

for starters what type of pleco is it? it looks like a female bushy nose, in any case..... 89 is kinda high for that type of pleco (as far as i know) what was the temp before the treatment started? i had some in a 86 degree discus tank and they havnt grown at all while in my 80 degree and 76 degree tank they do really good (especially the 76) also whoever said 89 degrees to get rid of ich told you a bit extreme i think ive always been able to cure it with 85 degrees for one night (ya i know im lucky) anyways... as far as ich goes....... anything at all u want to know about it you can find here... Ich now on to the pleco... for starters, did you figure out and fix whatever caused the ich in the first place? in most cases (not all) poor water quality or tank conditions cause stress, stress weakens their immune system, ich attacks, the ich opens up the scales for the bacteria to get in and then your pretty much screwed. if the problem that killed the rest of your fish hasnt been fixed then its most likely the cause of this problem. i understand that you have stated that your water parameters are fine other than ph but you also have to understand that ich doesnt appear for no reason. its hard to see the "other colour" your talking about but the bushynose plecos ive had could turn the area right behind their head to a lighter tan colour if they chose to, could just be your fishs colour. bushynose are listed as being ok up to 7.6 ph, 8 is high but not high enough to likely be the main problem, coupled with something else (like water issues) and it could be enough to make them sick. plecos stomachs are very easy to see and therefor its very easy to tell if she is getting fed enough. the small white things your talking about im assuming look like little worms. these supposidly do no damage to the fish (ive had them before and thats what i was told) they come from over feeding, feed less and a few water changes and they should be gone. do both creatures you are refering to look the same or are they different? ive never used rain water, ive always done tap water with prime and stress coat. i don't know what dangers, if any, come with using rain water so i dont have much to say about that. also do you mix his food up or feed him seperately, or just let him eat the algea and thats it. plecos that eat algea only have a very lop-sided diet and tend to live much shorter lives. i have found that mine absolutely love zuccini (spelling i know) the one in my 76 degree tank will eat a whole peice 1 1/2 in x 1/2 in in about a day and a half, and he isnt much more than 2 inches. anyways this has gotten way too long.... i would suggest slowly getting him back down to at least 80, ive been amazed at the ammount of luck i have had with aquarium salt with my fish so i might also suggest that. water changes are always good. not more than about 1/3 at a time tho. ive also never heard of prime or stress coat hurting a fish (this is why i use them) so take that for whatever it is and i wish you the best of luck. losing fish sucks no matter what.


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## kert1224 (Nov 22, 2010)

last thing i forgot..... oxygen levels in the water go down when the temp is raised, unless u have over kill areation going on already and extra bubble can also help, another on eof thoes things that probably isnt the main reason but if it helps..............


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## Dango (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Kert1224

Thanks for your long reply!

The problems I was having with Ich are listed here.

To answer your other questions,

1. I don't know what type of Pleco he/she is - I just wanted an algae eater to keep the sides of the tank clean. And the LFS said this one would do the job.
2. The temperature is that high because I was recommended to set it that high to kill the Ich. It was previously 24C - about 75F.
3. The Ich came in on a dwarf loach (i'm pretty sure since I bought all the fish at the same time). He died just over a week after bringing him home. The 6 neons were next and then I was left with just the Plec. The Plec has been fine up until last night. It did have a couple of Ich on it, but there is no sign now.
4. I haven't fed the Plec since it only eats algae. I've tried putting a piece of cucumber in but there was absolutely no interest (although the snails loved it!)
5. I've used rainwater in the hope of gradually lowering the PH and hardness of my water. My LFS recommended using rainwater since it is "what the fish would have in the wild". I live in the country so I don't think there is a problem with the rain water.

The tank is only a 10G, but the plec is only 2" long at present. I would hope to move to a much larger tank in time to come...


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Nice looking pleco. Problem is many get big, really big...like up to 18 or 24". Might be worth asking the lfs what kind it is and if you can trade it for store credit when he is too big. A bushynose pleco will fit in most aquariums okay, but is still pretty big for a 10g. Snails will work good, or a few otocinclus. You do need to feed the pleco if the algae is gone. Most petstores, and even walmart sells algae wafers. The cucumber or zucchini sometimes takes a few tries before a pleco will notice its food. Microwave the slice for 15-30s s so it well stay down easier. Also, this is what many people use to remove snails.. Just put it down there and remove in the morning.
How long have you had it at 89? You turn it back down 2 or 3 days after you see the last signs of ich (just repeating what I remember. I haven't done this before).
I would worry about using rainwater. It might help, but it also might carry disease (something else found in the wild). Usually the pH is forced by things in the tank like crushed coral, lime, etc, but if you do this the ph will fluctuate everytime you add water, which is much worse than having the wrong ph at all. Most fish will live fine outside their natural ph range, if acclimated. Unless youre buying a very sensitive fish like discus or rams you'll probably be fine. You don't think the fish store collects rainwater for all their tanks, do you?
Loaches get ich very easily, but are one of my favorites. Even the stress of being introduced to a new tank may have been enough to start the ich attack. Loaches are very sensative to medicine so be careful and use half doses and nothing that haw copper in it.


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## FishyRuins (Jul 7, 2010)

the temp is wayyy too high. also, just to let you know, raising the temp doesnt kill ich. it just speeds up their life cycle


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## meggz (Nov 18, 2010)

I just want to suggest looking into columnaris symptoms. I'm in a battle with it now and the white algae like on the glass by the (water flow mostly) is what I got first. The saddle back white mark on your pleco the recent rather quick deaths of your tetras. I bet its columnaris!!! Good luck! I'm very new to the ill fish world but I'm forced lately to do some fast learning!


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## Dango (Nov 18, 2010)

Just a quick update to say that my Plec has died. I came home today to find her upside down and not moving.

There doesn't appear to be any physical signs of any disease. Her fins are all perfect, no sign of rot. She doesn't have any sign of Ich, velvet or Columnaris.

I tried scraping some skin off her back (not really practical - she's like sandpaper!) and her front, under her mouth. Nothing shows up under a microscope but she really smells bad! Just like fish food!

I managed to get a sample of the white "fluff" that's in the water and in some parts of the plants. It looks like tiny ball shapes on strings. Doing a few yahoo image searches, it looks like it could be diatoms of some sort. Also found a number of daphnia too (in the tank that is).


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## kert1224 (Nov 22, 2010)

unfortunate that we couldnt save the pleco but that was your last fish in that tank wasnt it??


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## Dango (Nov 18, 2010)

Yeah. She was the last...

What should I do before I get some more fish? I'm thinking of losing the plants and gravel and cleaning the tank thoroughly before refilling etc...


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## meggz (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Dango, I found this FISHYPORTAL.com and thought it may be helpful to find out what could have been your problem. Maybe you can find out what went wrong so you know how to prevent it from ever coming back!! Good luck!


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