# Stocking question for a 20g Long



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

got my aquascape all planned out the left and right corners will be densely planted with the center being a bit more open, though I may add a few short plants (maybe put one in front of the rock closed to the front of the tank)

For fish... I'm thinking either 3 Dwarf Gourami (1 mal 2 females) or some dwarf rainbows (I'd REALLY like the dwarf Rainbows more if you guys think it can work out)

For schooling fish I think I might go Red Minor Tetras.

and for the bottom I'll probably just do corys

So what do you guys think? Will I be able to add another schooling fish or will the dwarf rainbows and tetras be enough for schools?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just be aware that just because you add female and male Dwarf Gouramis it does not mean they will not fight. Mixing males is definitely a bad idea. Personally, I would just have one male unless you have some idea to breed.

Remember it is a small tank and you will want to mind the stocking level.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

i thought that it was just the males that really fought. I knew that males and females tousled but didn't think it was as bad as males. Would a group of dwarf rainbows be better than?

and I know the stocking level is something I need to keep in mind............. thats why I'm asking about what people think of my stocking list...


----------



## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

I hate to say it, but rainbows are likely too large or conversly need too much room, for your tank. On the gourami question, it depends on the individuals. Some are as chilled out as can be and some seem to be a bit of homicidal maniacs. Personally, I'd go with a male Leeri-Pearl Gourami. Another option would be the pigmy gouramis. They tend not to be too aggressive with each other and are very nice looking fish.

I'm not sure about the Miror Tetras, but they look like a Serpea varient. If that is the case you don't want them. Serpea's are aggressive fin nippers and slowly kill everyone in the tank. I'd go with Harliquin Rasboras instead. A small school lf the rasboras and 6 Celestrial Danios would look really good with the pigmy gouramis. You could also throw in a pair of Red Badis with the corys on the bottom.


----------



## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

FYI-Just checked they're Serpeas.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

you sure rainbows are too large? Dwarf Rainbows only get just over 2"... so i've read from multiple sources... aah .. yeah i definitally dont want turd fish. I'll see if Petsmart has Celestial Danios. they're pretty fish. I know they have giant Danios and Zebras but. idk what else. I'll drop by tomorrow with some fish options and see what they have and take note.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Hah, I talked to Reefmissoula today and asked if they knew about a local FRESHWATER store cus I was interested in getting a zebra pleco and Dan (the owner) said he could order one from his supplier for me for pretty much $300. It's the cheapest I've seen them o-o. He said his supplier has the Venezuela Zebra Pleco, and he doesn't know the difference between the Ven. Pleco and the Brazilian pleco though, but he could order it for me.
I COULD have one instead of cories. Thoughts?


got my plants today!! waiting for them to perk up a bit before trying to plant them this is the 'range' of plants I might have

Could include but not guaranteed -
Dwarf Sag
Green Hygro
Jungle Vals
java moss
Several Species of Ludwiga
bacopa
Floaters - greater duckweed, duckweed, dwarf water lettuce, frogbit, salvinia, azolla
anacharis
wisteria
Myrio
Limnophilia Sessefloria
Rotala
honwort
crypts - red or green
Brazillian Pennywort

from the buyer. I'm hoping I don't have duckweed, but I think I might have Frogbit because the floaters are HUGE. bigger than duckweed. It's not Salvinia cus its not 'bumpy'. but I'm sure I have wisteria.

They all arrived in a huge clump, so some are still mushed together. Some of these plants I'll have to research some because I have no idea what Myrio is... or Limnophilia, rotala...bacopa... there are a few others that sound familiar but their details escape me @[email protected]


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The 2 plecos are completely different. A true zebra will come from brazil and is basically illegal to ship from there anymore but you can now get them tank bred. I have seen them as low as $200.00 online at planetcatfish. The Venesualan zebra is basically the chocolate zebra. different colors and different striping. 

If you want to get rainbows I would suggest threadfin rainbows. Beautiful fish. Small enough for the 20 long.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

aaah i see.


----------



## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

Previous posters have made good points about gouramies. So let me offer some other suggestions.

Sparkling gouramies (dwarf croaking, Trichopsis pumila) are tiny, and in my experience in a 10gallon tank were fine in a group of 4 with no aggression whatsoever. They even bred quite regularly. I had kept them with Cardinals. they breed in caves.

The Threadfin rainbow (Iriatherina werneri) is a true dwarf rainbow and not at all active like most rainbows. A bit on the delicate side, they are a good match for Sparkling gouramies.

To continue on the small side, small cories are good, or Kuhli loaches, or any of the dwarf loaches, which also like to school. (sidthimunki or cruciatus) I have heard stories of the last two nipping fins of slow moving species, but have never observed it. As for small cories, the true minis love to school and will as hang out on the bottom as well, so they will keep two areas of the tank active - and you can have a bunch. Get 10! Get 15!! (habrosus & pygmaeus)

Hope this helps.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

m8d - is this your first tank or are you experienced at fish-keeping?


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

First tank


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

m8d said:


> First tank


If that is the case, here is my thought. You can disregard if you like. 

Whether money is/is not an issue, getting a $200+ fish is probably not the pressure you need in keeping this tank healthy as a beginner. I would get a few months under my belt and plan for that fish some time in the future, but not before I had proved to myself that I knew how to keep what I had safe and healthy. The fish will have a much better life if you have more experience at what you are doing. New tanks teach us a lot and most of what we learn is through the school of hard knocks, if you know what I mean.

Just a thought. Ultimately, your call.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

I know. I already gave a stocking list for this tank that will keep me happy until the future when I'm more skilled and can afford a larger tank.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Mmm update pic of the tank. I'm hoping the plants will perk up soon. 3 days in a shipping box can't be fun. I've pulled out some that... just didn't look like they were going to make it. Their stems were all broken and the stem itself was... squishy and limp. I know plants often will wilt back when put into a new environment but since these plants were cuttings, not actually stem and root plants I felt there was little hope. I'm hoping the wisteria survives, love the way that thing looks <3 I have flourish substrate and stuck in some API root tabs. Don't have liquid fertalizer yet, but let me know if there is anything else i can do for the plants.










The stocking list, now 100% worked out will be:

x5 Dwarf Rainbows
x7 Harlequin Rasboras
x5 Cory cats (not sure what type yet till I look at the store)
x1 Albino Long-finned Bristlenose Pleco
x1 Center fish (Will be a Gourami, just not sure what type yet. Will probably just be a Dwarf Gourami)

I still need to find one more piece of nice driftwood but Petsmart just has boring/small ones atm. Will keep eyes out.

Also... I know it ranges from 1-2 weeks normally... but I started the ammonia cycle last saturday and though theres been a slight drop in ammonia since adding the plants, there are no nitrites showing up. It's now about 1-2ppm ammonia atm. I'm thinking it's just the plants gobbling up the ammonia and not any bacteria. Should I just dose it back up or get TSS? (i was using Seachem's stability but that didn't work at all) To my understanding a lot of ppl have had luck with TSS and as long as there is ammonia for the bacteria to eat, I shouldn't have to add fish for it to work right?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

For stem plants just pinch off the dead looking parts and stick what is left into the substrate. A lot of times you can salvage enough of the stem for the plant to survive.

Do you have adequate lighting and correct kelvin for your bulbs?


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

i have no idea what light is in the stand. Should have asked but spaced, but I got it off craigslist for 60$ and it came with a build it light. It's a tube light but it has this plastic protector thing covering it and i cannot... for the life of me... figure out how to get it off @[email protected] i don't want to break it cus then that would leave the light bulb exposed... but yeah... I have no idea the type of bulb in there. P: Even if i got it off and could look at the bulb... i'd have no idea what I'd be looking for @[email protected] I can get a new bulb in the future with my college refund money once school starts up again but for now i got what i have hahaha


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have a hooded light exposed. As long as you keep the cover clean and it is clear it shouldn't cause any problems. 

You need to look on your bulb and see if it has a spectrum number on it. If it is not 5000k-10000k, it is just a matter of time that most, if not all, of your planst will die. If it says "planted" anywhere or mutil-spectrum you should be okay if it doesn't have a number. Bottom line, you need to check or risk losing your plants.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Finally got it out @[email protected] had to take the front panel of the stand off to get to it really (thank god for a cheap multi scredriver holder thing)










What it says incase it's difficult:
F17TS/CW CRB17TBC.W
Color Temperature 4200k
CRI=60 8000hrs 4910

So i take it the color temp. is what I should be looking at? if thats the case then i guess I need to invest in a new bulb anyways o-o Will this be alright though for them? Until i can get a new bulb next month?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can get the right bulb for pretty cheap if you get at HD or Lowes. They should sell 6500k bulbs or you can go to your local fish store and get one. I would not want to wait until next month before I got one. You may not have many plants left by then, but tough to say.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Mk. There's a lowes right next to petsmart here. Haha. How much do they normally cost?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not knowing what the length of your bulbs are....

$7-8


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Oh that's not so bad. I'll take a look.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Nitrites showed up today (or could have yesterday, i didn't test for them yesterday) around .5 to 1ppm (those purples are so close to the other I can't really tell, though Im leaning more towards 1ppm cus it was a bit darker) so... YAY! Haha, just when I was about ready to just say forget this crud i'ma go get TSS to jump start it



my tank was like: "Nope! We ganna save ya 10$. Here have some bacteria!"


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

As of today the ammonia reads: 2-4ppm
Nitrites are around 2-5ppm
Nitrates are somewhere in the 5-20ppm (oranges are a bit difficult to tell apart but I'm leaning more towards 5ppm just cus it's still got a yellow-hue)

Is it just me or is this cycling really fast o-o I thought it took about a week for Nitrates to show up? Oh well... I'm not complaining. Go little tank, go!!! -cheers-


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Well. My nitrite tube is taking longer the change. Before it would turn dark purple instantly at the bottom of the tube when I put in the drops. Now it's taking a bit and even then doesn't really get purple. Just a dark blue but once I invert it a few times it gets that rich purple that's at the higher end of the chart. Soooo idk of that means anything but to me it means there isn't THAT high of nitrites as there were. 

My ammonia disappears practically overnight haha and now nitrates are a rich orange-red. So I'm hoping it'll be done here soon. Itching to get my fish!!


----------



## robjh22 (Jul 19, 2010)

Let me just say that you have really good taste. The tank looks really good and I am so jealous of that light colored substrate. I didn't even know you could GET white substrate that plants would grow in.

t got a 20 high instead of a 20 long and it was the dumbest mistake ever. Your fish will enjoy swimming back and forth. Mine mostly sit in the middle knowing there's no place to go.

You didn't say much about the bacteria you introduced. To tell the truth, I just dumped a bottle of bacteria starter in my water 3 years ago, let it sit for a day, then added the fish. I've always had perfect water. Not even the stores that test it try to sell me anything to treat it. EVER!

Also, where is the ammonia coming from at the moment if you don't have any fish in there? You treated the water to get rid of chlorine first, right?

Question: did you rinse these plants really well? I have had a terrible infestation of malaysian snails that I am just now getting under contra, and I know they rode in on some plants.

Also let me complement you on the substrate. It looks really good. The substrate I bough for my live plants had sharp black rocks, and I know it was hard on my bottom feeders. I just changed to black sand (see other thread on that adventure.)

Anyway, if this is your first tank, I think you've got it looking really sharp.

I'll never get more than a single gourami again. The risk of fighting is too high.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

I introduced the searches stability weeks ago. It didn't seem to really do much though now I feel it might have sped up my cycle a bit Cus my nitrites hit pretty fast after introducing the ammonia (from ace) but now I'm sitting in the nitrite phase waiting. And yes I treat my water with prime. 

My plants come from petsmart now though a few that I ordered from someone online survived. I soaked them in a bucket when I first got em but other than that no. I don't really rinse my plants. Just the petsmart ones to get those gel stuff off. 

I'll have an update picture when I get home. I have another peice of wood coming in that should arrive next week so I'll get that in. Gotta wait till petsmart restocks their plants this Friday before I can get more. 

Ty for the compliments  I'm quite pleased with it.


Also I dropped my previous stock idea. I'm going with a new one now I have very satisfied with. 
Harlequin rasboras
Betta
BN pleco
And some corys


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Well it finally happened. I tested this morning and Nitrites were still there, though for the past 2 days it has been slower to change to purple. What I mean is, when I hit the spike the first time, the tube changed purple IMMEDIATELY after adding the drops, before even inverting. The past two days it had been taking a few seconds to change, and really just stayed a dark blue until I inverted the tube.

Tested this morning, still had nitrites. Tested just now at.... 11pm... and I now have 0 Amm, 0 Nitrites, and a whooooole lot of Nitrates as it should be. My friend is taking me to the store Friday to get the fish since it's too cold now to bike home (I only live a few city blocks away from Petsmart) Montana just hit a bad cold spell so I figured I'd play it safe.

These were the readings. I took the Nitrite test twice cus the first time I was like "Wha-what? Did I miscount the drops?" so I took in a second time, counting carefully and turned out the same. Clearly there are no more Nitrites. 










So Friday after I get home I'll do a 90% WC, clean my filter (its full of tannis and random pieces of plant fluff) and go get my fish <3

Ganna dose my take up with ammonia as a test tonight and then test tomorrow when I get home and hopefully it'll zero-out. Soooo took me... 4-5 weeks total to cycle? Yup.


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I would not touch the filter for a couple of weeks after fish are introduced then just rinse it out, don't want to upset the bacteria colony.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

But it's all dirty... 0-0


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

At worst just rinse it in the tank water you take out and do it today with your big water change and add ammonia after to make sure. Hate to see you wait this long and disturb something drastic.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

i know i just planned to lightly dip the sponges in the emptied water. normally i'd give them some gentle squeezes to really clean them but i know after the cycle the bacteria are like "FFF NO DONT TOUCH ME" which is why it was just ganna be gentle dips to remove the plant gunk peices attached to the sponge, though it's mainly the intake area that has chuckls, not so much the sponges. And I have the bio-ceramic rings in the filter too, and thos, though turning a bit orange from the tannins, are fine, which i wont touch other than just dipping in the actuall filter parts to rinse them off.


----------



## TroyVSC (Aug 29, 2012)

henningc said:


> I'm not sure about the Miror Tetras, but they look like a Serpea varient. If that is the case you don't want them. Serpea's are aggressive fin nippers and slowly kill everyone in the tank.


I respectfully disagree with this statement. They can be known as fin nippers but they will not kill slowly kill everyone in the tank specially with the size of the school the OP was going to get and the other stocking in the tank.

I have both Harlequin Rasboras and Serpae Tetras and would recommend the Serpae. Much more active and just a real pretty red. Harlequins look great with a bigger school in a larger tank to fully utilize the room for schooling, say 12+ in a 40 or more.

Also not mentioned above is Honey Gourami Trichogaster chuna. They are beautiful stay small (2") and can be grouped while most Gourami species can not. Just love mine. just make sure you get the T. Chuna as they are the species that do not have Dwarf Gourami disease.


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Ah yes, I never updated my thread here with the new stocking.
I've decided on the following:
harlequins x10
BN Pleco
Corys (pandas hopefully) x5
Betta (hopefully female, reasons are in too much detail to type out, but its basically in honor of my friend who's been so great to me this year)


----------



## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

Acclimating some of the fish now. Just got more plants in there <3 my other peice of driftwood coming in monday will go in on the left.


----------

