# Centerpiece Species for 75 Gal Peaceful Community Tank



## CAM

Okay... here's what I have in my fairly recently established 75 gallon tank so far:

8 Zebra Danios
7 Albino Corydora Cats

I am definitely planning to add:

2 more Zebra Danios for a total of 10
3 more Corys for a total of 10
10 Harley Rasboras
10 Cherry Barbs
10 Cardinal Tetras

Now... I was originally plannng on adding a Dwarf Gourami as the centerpiece fish for this tank. But the more I read about them, the more I am shying away from that idea. The DG disease appears to be common and the DG is not very active. As you can see from my choices, I do like active fish. 

According to aqadvisor.com, I have plenty more capacity for a few fish. I have been doing some reading and am contemplating a set of three female bettas. They would add a nice dash of color, are fairly active, and have some personality. Some sources say they are good in a peaceful community tank as long as you don't have any long-finned, colorful fish in the tank that it might confuse as a male betta. Other sources say that even some female bettas can be aggressive. 

I considered a German Blue Ram but my Ph runs around 7.2 and appears that fellow prefers acidic water. 

Thoughts on the female bettas or other suggestions ?


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## coralbandit

German rams could probably be acclimated and do fine in your pH.They're very similiar in requirements to the cardinals.
Puntius Denisoni is one of my favorites(roseline shark).
AQadvisor says 5 which puts you at 103%,3 keeps you at 93%.
The are a peaceful,beautiful fish that will grow bigger than all your others,adding a nice diverse look.They get better color as they age also.
Petsmart often have them for $7.99,or on sale for $5.00.
My lfs sells them for $19.99 and when I first found them they were $25.00.
They're one of my favorites.I have 14 of different size and age.
They are more cool and happy in schools.
AOL Search


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## CAM

That seems like a great choice, Bandit. Awesome looking fish, going to do more research on it but at first, blush... I like ! 

Never saw those at my local Petsmart, will have to ask if they carry them. If not, I don't live far from That Fish Place who does overnight shipping to your front door. 

As always, appreciate your assistance !


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## CAM

Some sources indicate that the Roseline Shark (Denison Barb) can get up to 6 inches long but are not a threat to the smaller community fish. Awesome ! In my 75 gallon they would likely get to 4 inches. 

Only problem I see is sometimes you can get one that is a bit agressive and nip fins but appears only with each other. Appears if you keep them in a small school, that is less likely to be a problem. 

I might do a school of them in place of the school of cardinal tetras and keep my bio load at a very reasonable level.


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## coralbandit

Mine don't cause trouble with anyone.I have cardinals,rummynose,cherry barbs,serpae and glowlights among my smaller fish.Some of my roselines(the 3 year old and up) are 6 inches now.They do chase each other in friendly fashion.Possibly they are still listed on the endangered list as only a few commercial breeders have sucess breeding them,but they do seem to be being bred as they are regulary stocked by petsmart.My #1 store may get them them from a local discus breeder I think,as I think I met him once(and remember) he said those are mine,pointing to the sharks after showing me pictures of his discus.
Your stock seems like a great peaceful community(what I'm into) so I'd warn you if they were trouble.
Another possibiltiy that stays small and schools is rummy nose,but be warned they play dead when you purchase them(for real).I got 2 for free last time because they were playing dead right in the store,and the employee had never heard about them.He was concerned and said I won't charge you for those two just in case, when I told him.They were fine when I got home!
The cardinals are tough(very sensative) and in the wild are expected to live only 1 year.In aquariums you have done very well if they last 3-4 years.I know that sounds like a long time ,but if done right some fish last 8-10years,so losing such a beautiful little fish so "soon" is frustrating if not heartbreaking.


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## CAM

I think the Roseline Shark would be a great addition but I fear they may be hard to come by. That Fish Place, which is the largest pet store in the country, doesn't have have them... also searched under its other names (denison barb and redline torpedo barb). 

I'll check the Petsmart that is a 3-wood and pitching wedge from my house and a LFS that is about 30 miles from my house to see if either can get them for me. Would have plenty of time, would not add them for about 4-5 months as they are apparently very sensitive to water quality and my tank is still new. 

If I get the rummynose, I think it would be in place of the cardinal tetras and I would still look to get a centerpiece fish. 

Thanks again !


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## coralbandit

There are other gouramis,many are tough but I like the pearls.They are the champagne of gouramis.1pair of them would be a nice centerpiece.
I realised after posting that rummy nose didn't really fall in the center piece category,they are truely just another small schooling fish.They look like baby roselines(or close enough in color) that the two together is kind of cool.
Having different size fish adds as much character to a tank as different colors.The whole issue you're dealing with is finding a larger(centerpiece fish) that will not terrorise your smaller schools.


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## coralbandit

Rainbows are another option.Many different colors to choose from and they're schooling.


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## CAM

Yes, one of the Gouramis that is not in the Dwarf family but still compatible with my small, community fish could be an option. The Pearl Gourami is a beautiful fish, I just wonder if one of two of them wouldn't be shy in a tank full of little, active fish. 

Really like that Roseline shark but wow, only place that seems to sell them is a place out in Arizona. 

I have several months to explore my options so thanks for giving me some excellent choices to be thinking about !


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## TroyVSC

Just went to a my LFS and they had the roselines for 12.00 and had a whole tank full of them. They were pretty. Based on what you said in their behavior I think that they would be really really nice. Beautiful fish for sure.

Maybe if you reduce the schools by one or two you could have more room for them.

I guess it will be an excuse to get a bigger tank some day.


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## CAM

I could have room for a school of them by eliminating a school of one of the species I was going to stock. Trouble is.... going to be hard to find them. Very cool your LFS carries them!


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## CAM

Oh man..... was tempted by my neighborhood Petsmart tonight!

Went there for three Cherry Barbs to add to the three already in my tank. None available. But I'll be darned.... first time I've seen Roseline Sharks there. Six of them, just the number I want. Did not get them.... concerned my tank isn't mature enough for them yet. Especially since three of them were nearly three inches.

And they were only $9.19 each. Wow!


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## TroyVSC

Great price. Pretty aren't they?


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## coralbandit

I think your tank is probably ready for some.You've been up for a while now and test well? I know you said your up on water changes so I would say you should get the three smallest ones.
Your petsmart will probably get more so you could add other three later(hopefully not as large{just means their older}).These fish don't all have to be added at same time as they get along well with each other.
Your choice but if you want, you should get.


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## CAM

Hmmmmmmm. I was going to add all six at once because they enjoy schools of six or more and want them to be happy from the start.

Also.... not sure how long they have been there and I understand they are not the hardiest of fish. Don't want to move them again if they just got there. Might find someone there tomorrow who knows more than the young lady there tonight.

Question..... these didn't have much red coloring. Not even the bigger ones. Do they get full coloring when mature?


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## CAM

Oh.... and yes..... religiously changing water. Two 40% changes this week. Have had spotless tests for several weeks now.


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## TroyVSC

I think they will gain coloring back once they are happy in the their new environment and have proper diet, space, water etc. Fish at the pet stores are often stressed. The ones I saw at a really good LFS had the reds in them but they were also a little larger than ones I have seen at a couple of stores.


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## CAM

Thanks. Yeah..... they had these poor six Roseline Sharks and several other fish in a tank that could not have been more than 20 gallons. I bet they are stressed!


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## coralbandit

As long as they look generally healthy than I would say they will come around for you.And conversly to your thought they haven't been there long not being a good sign(and I got mine from petsmart also) I'd take them 5 minutes after they got there to ensure less time in a inferior climate.
My #1 LFS will hold fish a week or even two ,to assure health and I trust them not to kill what I want,but petsmart?


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## CAM

Good point, Tom. They would be less stressed moving again than spending time in that little tank.

Will be there when they open in the morning and hope nobody bought the three smaller ones after I left there at 6:30 tonight.

Thanks!


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## coralbandit

I'm sure you'll enjoy them and they will color up and be great fish for your tank.Make sure everyone in store tank is healthy looking(considering where they are) and that there are no dead fish in that tank.


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## CAM

Thanks, Tom. I will give them a closer inspection. Only saw one dead fish in any of their tanks tonight..... a guppy tank. 

They hardly have any gravel in their tanks. But I will say their tanks appear cleaner than two LFSs that are 30 miles from me.


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## CAM

Got the three smaller ones!! They don't have a lot of color yet, as they spend ah hour or two in my new AccliMate Pro acclimation container. But they are still beautiful fish. Quite the jumpers too. One jumped out of the container at the store and another tried to jump out of my acclimator. Guess he was surprised there was a lid.


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## coralbandit

Good deal and I'm sure they'll settle down and enjoy the space you have for them.They should color up nicely for you today once in your tank.They'll probably enjoy nibbling on any growth you have in there also.


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## CAM

Thanks, Tom.

Had them acclimating for an hour and a half. Released them about 10 minutes ago. Even though they are youngsters, they are already the biggest fish in the tank. Still..... they are keeping mostly hidden now.... checking the new home out slowly.


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## TroyVSC

Cool, want to see some pics.


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## CAM

I'll see if I can get a couple of decent pics seen with my not-so-great camera.

Couple hours in the tank and I can see a bit of their red coming out.... on their "noses" and sides.


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## CAM

I think I'm going to have to start buying food in bulk quantities. Man, those three Roseline Sharks can really eat! They sucked up as much flake food as they could get to, which was a lot as fast as they are. Then they went down to the bottom and helped the Cories eat their shrimp pellets. And throughout the afternoon they were occasionally scavenging around the gravel and driftwood..... surprised me. Going to make vacuuming easier! ;-)

And I can see how they got their names.... they move thru the water more like a shark than a Barb. 

Loving them already. Thanks again for the suggestion, Bandit!


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## CAM

Here's a few pics. Between my not-so-great camera and the Roselines being so fast, pardon the poor photos. 

When I brought them home, the black lines were faint and there wasn't a hint of red. Now the black lines are sharp and there is a hint of red on their noses and down the bodies above the black stripes. Not sure if the red will come in all the way as they get comfy in their new home or if it's a maturity issue. 

Anyway....


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## coralbandit

Looking good!Years ago when I first saw them I thought "they'll lose their color as they get older,so I see nothing great about them."I couldn't have been more wrong!I can't say when they will color up, but they will and when they do they are impressive peaceful fish.Next to the 8 year old clown loaches(as close to family as fish can get) the roselines are my wifes favorite!It shouldn't be a matter of aging to see the red come in ,but with age the silver scales will take on a green hue thats beautiful.
ENJOY!
Here's what you get to look forward too!


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## CAM

Yes.... THAT is what I hope mine look line in a few months or a year ! Impressive ! They look well fed too.


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## CAM

Bandit probably can answer this question but it's open to anyone else who might know. 

The day after I got the three young Roseline Sharks, two of them had some sort of confrontation that I want to verify was the way they establish who is the dominant male in the tank. 

The larger of the two males (assuming the third is a female because her black stripe is not quite as prominant) was on top of the other and lowered himself on the slightly smaller one, pushing him down very close to the gravel, about an inch or so. Did this three times, then swam upward a bit to release the smaller one. 

No harm done, just appeared to be sending a message to me. Playing, or establishing dominance ?


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## coralbandit

No - one has confirmed a way of identifying the difference between sexes yet.Probably a size thing ,but even with that some fish have larger females,and some larger males(fish like to keep you guessing).
About 2 weeks ago there seemed to be something going on with my roselines.2 of them almost completely lost their black stripe and were qualifying for the Indy 500.They chased each other through every inch of the 180,getting a couple others ryled up and even catching the interest of my clown loaches.For the most part only the 2 really engaged in the festivities,but it lasted like 10 minutes,around 8:30 in the evening(by then most fish are settling in).
I truely hope some sort of pre spawning activity was taking place but have not noticed anything since.
Yours were probably establishing the pecking order,but I honestly have never seen a truely dominant one.At any given time one can start cruising and others will join in but that's about it.
These fish are now being commercially bred but most certainly by farms that actually inject hormones into the fish to achieve spawning.One of my "I've done a good job" goals is to see these fish spawn,but to date no recognisable activity.Possibly ,like other fish a 180 gallon aquarium is really no where near large enough for them to feel that comfortable.But I hope and try to establish a good group of different ages(by years) to have any/all possibilities and have a large school of them together,14!


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## CAM

Thanks, Tom. Appears I'm in for some more interesting times with those fish in the tank. 

Yeah, ever since then, I see no signs of dominance... when they travel around the tank together, it's not always the same one leading the way, no more bullying at all, etc. Interesting. 

I'm looking forward to adding the three more though. Last night these three saw their reflections in the glass and traveled back and forth as a group of "six" for a good 20 minutes.


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## CAM

Added two more Roselines yesterday. Luckily, found a couple very nearly the same size as my first three, although they are not as "fat" as my original ones. But give me a few weeks.

They all accepted each other as kin right away and now my original trio spend more time out in the open and less time behind the tall plants that form a semi-circle near the back-center of the tank that I have dubbed Shark Cove.

They looked so awesome when schooling together and they are so cool tempered, never bothering anyone (unlike my danios and an ornery Cherry Barb that chase around other fish hours of the day).

The red lines are becoming very pronounced now, too.... very gorgeous fish!

Thanks again, Bandit! Could not have picked a better centerpiece species!


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## coralbandit

Truely a favorite of my wife and I and overstocked as I am,I wouldn't part with 1 of the 14 in my 180! they are grace in motion only equalled in my eyes by an arrowana(which will not work for me but is still one of the most beautiful fish to watch "glide" around a good sized tank.)
On another note of stocking for color and personality(and I clearly see the difference between the two fish) my school of rummy nose often blend right in and look like "fry" of the roseline,which although not true is a close enough "cheat" for geust who thinkt here are a school of those guys,just smaller !
I'm really glad you like them Chris and would always HIGHLY reccommend them to anyone with right sized tank that wants peaceful larger fish.THEY'RE BEAUTIES NO WAY AROUND IT!


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## CAM

You probably didn't notice the change in my signature.... the stock list in my 75. I gave up on the school of Harlequin Rasboras because I kept losing them, one at a time, after a week or two. 

Went instead with Bloodfin Tetras. Those guys must see the red on the Roselines and think they are cousins because the sure have taken a liking to them. Especially the biggest one likes to join them quite often. 

I'm wondering if I could get away with 8 Roselines. Sure would create quite a spectacle to see that many cruising around in my 75.


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## coralbandit

Honestly most "torpedo" shape fish like to sprint,but in the real world we are all caging these creatures.I know many would say that a 6 foot long tank is necessary for certain fish,but honestly I think we give ourselves too much credit(we can do math),and my fish really don't think they're any more free than if they were in a 4 foot tank.The difference in our homes is tremendous ,the difference in the fish world is barely noticeable IMO.
You do the right thing with water changes and paying attention to your fish,so if you think you want more ,you probably could have more.
I do greatly appreciate AQadvisor and value the information they provide.They keep me working all the time doing waterchanges,since they say my 180 is stocked at 219% ! I will also say I don't think they have any give or take for my filtration as a sump that holds 40gallons and moves over 1200GPH is not even an option with them.Although they say I'm seriously overstocked(and should consider a larger tank{I'm always considering a larger tank{his wife laughs in the background}),they say I still have ample filtration when I list just 1200gph.Possibly it's not a question of water quality ,but proper space for creatures to survive.My guys from the smallest(cardinals) to the largest(clown loaches,roselines and discus) really seem to do well,thrive,grow and breed.Maybe I see things the way I want,but in the long run (as I said "I appreciate the input") it is MY TANK,and I wouldn't do it differently if I could.


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## CAM

Thanks for the confirmation.

Yes.... AQAdvisor seems to err or the side of caution regarding stock levels. And likewise, they don't list my Top Fin 75s either. I use their option of Top Fin 60s and compensate accordingly.

I know a lot of my fish aren't fully grown yet but my 75 doesn't seem nearly crowded and don't think it will be even if they all reach their Max size potential.


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## coralbandit

My #1 LFS says that the roseline will reach 14".I really don't think they are even close to what these fish do in captivity as mine that are 4 years old are 6" at best.I only hope they live long enough to be 14",that would seem like another 8-10 years,and I like you (thank God for automation and 30+ years experience) change around 50-100% water weekly in my 180! so I don't think they are really going to grow too much more?I have never seen any in captivty larger than mine.What fish grow to in the wild (totally unthrottled as far as food and space go) can not really be considered applicable to captivity with the rare exception of some fish(tiger shovel nose for example).
I don't think I do better than most,but I do think I provide optimum conditions and the rest is up to nature.None of my fish are weak or less than thriving despite the "seriously over crowded" lable,and not for automation to make waterchanges "very convienent" I may have a totally different experience,but is easy and important to me to do the things I do.I change "massive" amounts of water in all my other tanks,that do not have any automation also as this is a simply proven way to keep healthy fish .It's no secret,but few LFS will truely emphasise how important waterchanges are.I probably wouldn't have half the fish I have if I didn't do my waterchanges on a regular schedule.
I'll add that in the four years I have had the roselines,that I have not lost one since getting them.They are appearently hardy along with being peaceful beauties.


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## CAM

I have done a lot of reading on the Riselines Ans appears six inches is the Max size they will reach in an aquarium. Most people who keep them say they grow to 4-5 inches.

They seem quite hardy. All five of mine immediately were active in my tank and my three original ones are growing like weeds.

Agree re: frequent and large water changes. I figure I owe it to my little friends to give them the most comfortable environment I can and eater quality is the best way to do that.


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## CAM

Notice a change in my signature ? 

Added the last two Roselines on Saturday. So I added three initially, then two more about a month ago, then these two. The first five are getting pretty big already, very nearly four inches. 

The last two are the smallest of any I've purchased, about an inch and a half. They're getting chased and harrassed a bit by one of my larger ones (I believe it's one of the second batch that established himself as The King Of The Tank). 

Bandit, with your experience with Roselines, you think this will end shortly ones the dominant fish accepts the two young newbs ? Or will it go on until the two newbs grow to near the size of the other five ? 

TIA !


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## coralbandit

They'll all get along like family shortly(what's your family like?).They really only seem to want to school and nibble on algae and plants.I know I've told you before but I have 14 and certainly did not get them all at once.
I've added 1 1/2 inchers to my 4-5 + inchers and they all settled out fine.
I really hope(and can't believe any different with your continued stocking) that these fish are all I said they will be.Between them the clown loaches and discus they are the only "large "fish in my tank,the rest are tetras and such,and all seem fine .


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## CAM

Thanks, Tom.... that's the answer I was hoping for. The bigger 5 allow the newbs to cruise around the tank but just the one gives the youngster's a nudge sometimes and also chases them off.

Of course, he still does that to the other four larger ones sometimes, less frequently than with the new ones, and always thought he was just playing. Maybe he likes to send reminders he's the head of the family.


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## TroyVSC

Take a pic of the whole group if you can get them all schooling together and in focus. Hopefully they all get settled. Everytime I see them at my favorite store (they have like 20 in a larger tank) I want them so bad.


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## CAM

Will do shortly, Troy. Don't have the best camera but I'll see what I can do. Hard to get them in focus, the are always in "Cruise Mode" and rarely all seven together. They all rest back behind the group of plants I have near the center of the tank. One of them stays there a lot even when the others are out cruising. 

Will do my best. And they really are great fish... they swim with a lot of dignity. That's the best word I can use to describe them. And they are some of the best looking freshwater fish you'll find.


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## CAM

Troy, as promised, here are a couple pics I took recently. Sorry I couldn't get better ones. 

I am happy they are spending more and more time out in the open now since I've added the last two to bring their school to seven. 

One of them really has a nice red stripe now, others are coming in more and more all the time.


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## TroyVSC

Looks like they are starting to color nicely.


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## CAM

Thanks... yes, they are. Hoping, in a few months, they'll look like Bandit's Roselines.


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