# MY coral aren't doing so well



## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

I have 3 small frags in a 10 gallon tank. The tank has a 20 gallon filter, and a high quality heater, the frags are resting on live rock. Lately, my toadstool leathers have white spots on top and off white streaks on the stalk. My button polyps also have white lumps on the roots that look like white, large grains of sand. Can anyone tell me what this is and how to treat it? Thanks.:fish-in-bowl::animated_fish_swimm


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

what is your lighting? and do you have a protein skimmer? Those corals need alot of light especially leather. and what is your water perimeters?


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## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

I have the solarmax H.O. double T5 Lighting system, I do not have a protein skimmer. What do you mean by water perimeters?


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

the lighting sounds good. what i meant about water perimeters is what is your PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, specific gravity or salinity. I would recommend a protein skimmer for a nano reef. Its cheap and it pays for itself on the long run.


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## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

pH is 8.4, ammonia is .12, Nitrite is .5, Nitrate is 20, not sure about salinity, got reverse osmosis saltwater at an aquarium store. I already tried nitrifying bacteria on my tank, but the level didn't go down. Please help me, I'm really worried


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

coral is sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. nitrates are bad too but are ok in a small amount. How long has your tank been running? It sounds like your tank is still cycling. 

the tank salinity is determined by a refractor or you can convert the specific gravity by using a hydrometer. 

Im glad you are using RO water. Its extremely important that you are using RO water.


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## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

my tanks only been running for about a week and a half. Also how do I get rid of nitrites and ammonia?


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

your tank is still new and is cyclying. the ammonia will be eaten by nitrite bacteria. the nitrites then gets eaten by nitrates which is the least harmful bacteria but its still harmful to the fish. this is the best i can explain it lol. Just let your tank cycle until your ammonia and nitrite levels disappear


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## The.Reminder (Dec 25, 2011)

Listen. Your nitite will not have developed but your nitrate will still take take some time. A refractometer rather then hydrometer is recomended. Amonia shouldn't be an issue as you haven't had any dead things etc. and your nitite havent completed cyle Tbh. The frag will survive at a higher gravity of sAlinity I've found over the years then fish. Among the higher end of the scale. Frags are cheap. They probably will take time. 20% water changes daily. Will do. Please. Update on how things are going. I'm sure to helP But expect Half the frags to die. Leather corals. Not used to new conditions. Try some soft corals. Leather
Wil be In about 6 months. Not 1 week. Take your. Time. Rushing. Will. Hey you no where. Other parameterrs. Will be good. Just be sure to wait at leat 3 weekS before you know thing will survive. What filter have you got ?


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## The.Reminder (Dec 25, 2011)

Listen. Your nitite will not have developed but your nitrate will still take take some time. A refractometer rather then hydrometer is recomended. Amonia shouldn't be an issue as you haven't had any dead things etc. and your nitite havent completed cyle Tbh. The frag will survive at a higher gravity of sAlinity I've found over the years then fish. Among the higher end of the scale. Frags are cheap. They probably will take time. 20% water changes daily. Will do. Please. Update on how things are going. I'm sure to helP But expect Half the frags to die. Leather corals. Not used to new conditions. Try some soft corals. Then Leather
Wil be In about 6 months. Not 1 week. Take your. Time. Rushing. Will. Hey you no where. Other parameterrs. Will be good. Just be sure to wait at leat 3 weekS before you know thing will survive. What filter have you got ? Along as th filter is big enough You are generally on track. Lol


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## The.Reminder (Dec 25, 2011)

Awkward moment when it comments twice


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

mahnamahna1234 said:


> my tanks only been running for about a week and a half. Also how do I get rid of nitrites and ammonia?


*J/D* The corals you have will likely not make it. The Ammonia and Nitrites will kill them. 
Salinity in a Reef tank should be 1.025-1.026. TEmp of 78-81. SKimmer not needed in a 10g tank, but weekly water changes of 10% is needed to transport out nutrients.

The Aquarium Cycling Process, and Ways to Cycle a Saltwater Aquarium

What is the Nitrogen (Cycle) Cycling Process? - The Nitrogen Cycle in a Marine Saltwater Aquarium


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## The.Reminder (Dec 25, 2011)

Id say 20%. As long as its a slower aclimation process the more water you Cange can be beneficial. Do you know what corral you have ? Some basically. Well. 'poo' out ever once I a while the waste it produces. Some dont? Helpfull
To know what you have. Even though. Some wi
Survive some won't. It's generally. A game of chance.


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## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

thanks for all your help. BTW when I do water changes should I put in RO Saltwater or just RO water, no salt? Also, is it true that you need to heat the water your switching 24 hrs. before you switch? Thanks again, you've been a big help


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

Agreed, your tank is still cycling. Do daily 10% water changes (1 gallon) with RO water that has been mixed overnight with marine or reef salt. Heating it to the same temperature as your tank helps to keep shock to a minimum and also be sure to add it slow. Make sure your salinity is about 1.025 (on smaller systems i dont go to the sligtly higher number unless you constantly top it off every day), temperature should be at 78deg F, no nitrates, nitrites or ammonia. The best way to keep these down especially right now is to add some macro algae in your tank (i.e. caulerpa, cheatomorpha) which will help remove the nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia while your tank is cycling. You need also to make sure your phosphates (0 ppm), magnesium (1280ppm), and calcium(420ppm) levels are good. Your alkalinty needs to be maintained at about 8 dKh. The corals you have right now may not make it too much longer but there is still a chance they'll survive if you take action asap (to bring the ammonia, nitrate, nitrites down via water changes and macro-algae). You'll need a refractometer to precisely measure your salinity but if you have a LFS that sells premixed saltwater, you can have them test it before you get it and adjust it if needed.
A skimmer isnt entirely needed on a small tank if you keep up on water changes... although, my 20 gal reef does well without either due partly to the various corals, invert life, macro-algae and low feeding schedules too keep the bio-load to a minimum. It would do better with more frequent water changes but i dont have much time for them... so i'm really doing a lazy experiment. But, it's much better to follow a water change regiment and healthy upkeep measures.


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## mahnamahna1234 (Dec 29, 2011)

Thank you so much! Also where can I get the macro algae in a pet store? What are some good brands?:fish9:


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Chaeto
Caulerpa- This one can go asexual on you, and run rampant throughout the tank. Just need to watch it.


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## RareLiveCorals (Dec 16, 2011)

As it has been stated previously, your tank has not fully cycled thus far.

I would like to offer some advice on all of the advice given thus far. During a cycle it is counter productive to perform water changes, especially 20% daily. Let me start by saying I am a big believer in water changes. I preach 20% weekly changes as a minimum and if you could do it daily then please do. However during a cycle this is counterproductive. The bacteria that we need to reproduce in order to have a fully established cycled tank feeds off of these poor tank parameters. by doing water changes you are prolonging the cycle by taking away the food for the bacteria. when setting up a tank you should do nothing until it is fully cycled. I recommend leaving the lights off during this portion as well to avoid unhealthy nuisance algae growth. It is premature to have any corals in your tank and shame on which ever store you purchased your corals from as to not know that you are not ready to keep these living creatures alive and thriving.

Further more I would like to know what your biological filtration might be. example: live rock, wet dry, fluidized bed etc.
If rock how many pound and what type? How many gallons is your aquarium? and what is the total Gallons Per Hour pumping through your system? If you need a good source for purchasing products for your Reef Tank


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Live Rock - About Live Rock - Cycling, Buying, Grades, Curing, aquascaping live rock
The Aquarium Cycling Process, and Ways to Cycle a Saltwater Aquarium
Water Changes in the Cycling Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Don't Water Changes Keep the Biological Filter from Maturing?


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## RareLiveCorals (Dec 16, 2011)

I am assuming that your reply with the links was in response to my post. Forgive me if I am wrong. attached below is an insert from one of your links. Thank you for providing another source of info to confirm my post.
Michael

FAQ
Should I do a water change while my aquarium is cycling?

By Stan & Debbie Hauter, About.com Guides



Q. Should I do a water change while my aquarium is cycling?

A. Ammonia and nitrite levels need to spike during the cycling process in order for the cycle to continue and finish it's task. If you perform a water change to reduce these levels while the aquarium is cycling, you will only be delaying the completion of the cycle.

You will reach the end result earlier if you do not perform a water change until the ammonia and nitrite levels drop to zero, and the nitrate level starts rise.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

RareLiveCorals said:


> I am assuming that your reply with the links was in response to my post. Forgive me if I am wrong. attached below is an insert from one of your links. Thank you for providing another source of info to confirm my post.
> Michael
> 
> FAQ
> ...


The most common explanation that people who recommend against water changes in a fish tank while it is cycling is that these water changes will disturb the bacteria, and either prevent them from getting established in the tank, or remove them from the tank so they can't get established.

However, the bacteria in question are pretty good at holding on to surfaces. They usually are holding on to surfaces in the biological filter media which sits in flowing water being moved by the pump for the filter. In most cases, this water is moving faster through the filter than it will be removed from the tank by your siphon. (Remember, you want to turn over the entire tank volume 3-5 times an hour in most filters. In order to approach this current, you would need to empty the entire tank in under fifteen minutes with your siphon!)

So, you won't be removing the bacteria from the tank in any meaningful quantity with your water changes. but that can't be the only argument against doing water changes and saving your fish, can it?

No. They also argue that by lowering the ammonia levels in the water that you will kill off the bacteria. Now, if you were removing all the ammonia from the water and preventing any additional ammonia from being released into the water this would be a valid argument. However, when you remove 10-15% of the water, you're only removing 10-15% of the ammonia from the water. The majority of the ammonia is left in the water, leaving plenty for the bacteria to consume.
Additional reading to confirm my post.


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## Aquatic Castle (Jan 11, 2012)

I see several people have helped already. The only thing I'd like to add that seems missing is the importance of being able to monitor and control salinity. Somebody mentioned that you need a hydrometer or refractometer. Hydrometers are cheaper, the floating kind are more accurate than the gages. If you get a floater, be careful not to read the water tension that creeps up above the water level. When you change water, you take out old sea water and replace it with new sea water. When you replace evaporated water, you replace it with fresh--but you still need to watch the PH of the tank with added water. I recommend a milwaukee PH probe and some ph 7 calibration fluid to calibrate it. Even if you are buying premixed water, you should have a bag of salt on hand to adjust your salinity with.


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