# I started a fishless cycle and need encouragement



## yekoms (Jul 7, 2013)

I started a fishless cycle 6 days ago in our 45gal. with a couple plants in it.

I made the mistake while dosing the ammonia by checking it with Tetra test strips. The reading that I was getting didn't make cense to me mathematically by how much ammonia (Dr Tim's)I was adding so I stopped adding. I also added Dr Tim's One and Only Bacteria. 

Minutes later I went right over to Petco ( a mile from us) and bought an API liquid test kit and tested it was a 5. (maybe a little more than 5.) I did a partial change (15 gal.)to drop it to 4.

On the 5th day (yesterday) the ammonia dropped to 3. and nitrites were 3. I didn't check nitrates.

Today the ammonia is at .25 and the nitrites are 5. I did a ten gal. water change and now nitrites are 3. nitrates are 30.

Should I dose ammonia back up to 3. ???
Does this sound normal ???

The Tetra 6 in 1 test strips are close, But I don't trust them. I threw the ammonia strips away...
Thanks,Smokey


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## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

it looks like your tanks is on the right path. When you can dose the ammonia up to 4ppm and it's gone within a 24 hour period, you're good to start slowly adding your fish.

Good job throwing out those strips! The liquid test kit is the best thing out there to use, so definitely get familiar with it. Bake cookies together, watch late night movies with it by your side, you get the drift. haha.

But yes, no worries from what you're telling me. Just make sure that when that ammonia gets low, dose it up to 4ppm, and if its gone by the same time the next day, you're good! Make sure to do a big water change before adding fish though to drop those nitrates back down to... I believe a good level to keep them at is around 20? someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## jamnigh (Apr 24, 2013)

That is correct, granted the lower you can get the nitrAtes the better, but 20 or under is perfect!


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

Took this straight from the fishless cycle sticky here on the forum:



> Now that the ammonia levels have begun to drop it is time to pull out your nitrite test kit and begin monitoring both the ammonia and nitrite levels. Again testing should be done at least once every 24 hours. Keep dosing ammonia to maintain adequate levels (3-5ppm).
> 
> <once days.
> Once any trace of nitrites show, cut daily dose amount in half and now dose ammonia every 4 days.</once><once days.
> ...


<once days.
</once><once any="" trace="" of="" nitrites="" show,="" cut="" daily="" dose="" amount="" in="" half="" and="" now="" ammonia="" every="" 4="" days.

If you're confused, just pull up http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html 
GOOD LUCK!
</once>


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not real sure how fishless cycling works with ammonia and bacrteria supplement!But if you are using ammonia and had levels of 3-4ppm and they go to 0 then you should be able to stock your tank completely.That IS the benefit of cycling fishless,the amount of ammonia used is way more than would occur under fish in or bacterial cycling and the colonies built up will be strong enough to support a proper level of fish immediately.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Okay so if ammonia drops that quick, it didn't sound like the nitrites were doing the same. If it were an already cycled tank just the ammonia going away would usually signify it is good, but not the case.

I would keep dosing ammonia every 3-4 days (to the amount that got you to the 4ppm you started). When ammonia and nitrite disappear you are done but will need a pretty big water changes to reduce nitrates.

Also, cut out the water changes. Leaving the values what they are will not hurt anything. The great thing about a fishless is no water changes and no matter what you do you can't mess the cycle up. It is nature and nature is going to occur whether you do that w/c or not.


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## yekoms (Jul 7, 2013)

Thanks all for the replies... 
I figured that things were goin' OK But I wanted to post so I and others have a chance to learn more.
I only did the water change because the Dr Tim's cycle said don't let the Ammonia or Nitrites go above 5. and I wanted to see how much a water change affected things.
Thanks again and now I'm off to test again...


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Also, cut out the water changes. Leaving the values what they are will not hurt anything. The great thing about a fishless is no water changes and no matter what you do you can't mess the cycle up. It is nature and nature is going to occur whether you do that w/c or not.


*^^ *Oooops! Sorry, forgot and left that part out!


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Lonedove, I've always cycled my fish tanks with out fish. I started keeping tropical fish 20 some years ago and it's the only way I knew how to start a new tank. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I found out people were adding ammonia etc, all this testing and water changes. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me. It's worked for me, set up the tank, let it run for a few weeks and then add fish. Never lost a fish doing it this way either. Let nature be nature I guess.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snowghost45 said:


> Lonedove, I've always cycled my fish tanks with out fish. I started keeping tropical fish 20 some years ago and it's the only way I knew how to start a new tank. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I found out people were adding ammonia etc, all this testing and water changes. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me. It's worked for me, set up the tank, let it run for a few weeks and then add fish. Never lost a fish doing it this way either. Let nature be nature I guess.


Not sure how to get this across but, A TANK WILL NOT CYCLE WITHOUT AMMONIA!!! PLEASE read this article Manage your freshwater aquarium, tropical fishes and plants: Nitrogen Cycle for Dummies Since you seem to be selling this as "the method". It is not right!

Your method works for you but all it is, is a fish-in cycle. What you don't realize is for the first few weeks to about 2 months or so, your ammonia and nitrite levels have risen fairly high and maybe your fish have lived through it but that is it. The period you were without fish in the tank your "nitrogen" cycle never even started.

Although I have asked you before and doubt you will respond, but if you can explain how the cycle just completes on its own (without an ammonia source) I would love to hear about it.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Beats me, I never got into the chemical aspect of fish keeping, just keep the tanks clean, water warm and feed appropriately.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

snowghost45 said:


> Beats me, I never got into the chemical aspect of fish keeping, just keep the tanks clean, water warm and feed appropriately.


Could you have inadvertently but routinely added something to the cycling tanks that may have decayed and kick-started a cycle? For example...fresh soil that contained dead organisms, or how about contaminated well water?


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## yekoms (Jul 7, 2013)

Ammonia and nitrites are at 0 today. The ammonia was going to 0 on the last few tests but the nitrites took a few more days to 0. 
I did an ammonia dose and will check it tomorrow. I think that the cycle will be complete soon... 
Now off to the next question...


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

I use the same gravel that is the tank from previous fish, maybe that's it. I've had to move quite often and when I break down my tanks I don't clean them. Maybe that's it. I don't start fresh with clean, unused gravel.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snowghost45 said:


> I use the same gravel that is the tank from previous fish, maybe that's it. I've had to move quite often and when I break down my tanks I don't clean them. Maybe that's it. I don't start fresh with clean, unused gravel.


Gravel has to stay wet in order for the beneficial bacteria to live. If you break down a tank and everything is dry when you start back up, it is the same as starting fresh.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

You know I've been keeping fish for over 20 years, I don't cycle the tanks like everyone does on this forum and yes I use carbon filters. I have never had any fish die due to how I set up or keep my tanks.

I joined this site to continue learning about fish, not to be criticized for how I take care of my fish. They are happy, healthy and live long lives.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

I reread the posts and I don't think the others are criticizing you, just pointing out that some aspects of fish keeping have changed and perhaps there are better or easier way to accomplish the same goals. If what you are doing works, don't change, but there is some hard science behind some of these new methods that is hard to deny.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snowghost45 said:


> You know I've been keeping fish for over 20 years, I don't cycle the tanks like everyone does on this forum and yes I use carbon filters. I have never had any fish die due to how I set up or keep my tanks.
> 
> I joined this site to continue learning about fish, not to be criticized for how I take care of my fish. They are happy, healthy and live long lives.


I don't recall anyone criticizing you about anything other than the wrong information you were putting out about how you cycle tanks, which in reality about what half the people on here do anyway. The thing about letting a tank run for 3wks means nothing, and notice I said run and not cycle.

20yrs and non-informed on the nitrogen cycle is strange. A fishless cycle is promoted on here to help, but it is the person's choice ultimately. You can read about a fishless cycle in just about every aquarium forum, not just this one.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

snowghost45 said:


> You know I've been keeping fish for over 20 years, I don't cycle the tanks like everyone does on this forum and yes I use carbon filters. I have never had any fish die due to how I set up or keep my tanks.
> 
> I joined this site to continue learning about fish, not to be criticized for how I take care of my fish. They are happy, healthy and live long lives.


I enjoy your posts and appreciate that you take pride in keeping your fish well. I also sense your genuine nature...something I've come to appreciate even more now that I've become involved in online forums. It seems these venues are a draw to some self-serving and unhappy souls. 

Regarding the history of your tank builds...

I believe that _you_ believe that when conditioned water is poured into a new tank, the cycling process begins. That's been your personal experience...or so it seems, to you. I accept that. Nonetheless, as someone whose been formally educated in wildlife conservation, biology, and numerous chemistry disciplines...I can say with absolute certainty that an organic presence of some kind cycled your tanks. Period. There's no getting around that. Whether it was a contaminated water source or simply an unlucky fish with super tough gills...those tanks, AKA ecosystems, did not cycle themselves. The nitrogen cycle isn't optional...not ever...and it begins via the decomposition of an organic source. That IS the nitrogen cycle...and in this hobby, it's best practice to formally initiate and continue to monitor that cycle to ensure the water chemistry can safely support aquatic life. 

I believe it's important to jrman83 for new hobbyists to respect and understand, at least on a basic level, the science that allows them to enjoy these creatures in their homes. Expert hobbyists such as him have committed themselves to the betterment of this hobby. They're shepherds of forums such as these and they're protective of it's public content. They identify the genuine, albeit incorrect information you're publishing as potentially harmful to naïve hobbyists...especially the "do-little" consumer-driven types who became new aquarists one day while buying light-bulbs at Wal-Mart. 

Regardless of your past experience and because you're a valued member of this forum...I'd like to encourage you to stay open minded about best fish-keeping practices supported by scientific evidence. I'm never above learning something new, and I often do...including the awareness that something I've always done, is not what's best for my fish and never was.


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