# Some advice for this novice aquarist please?



## LariM78 (Nov 2, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the aquarium hobby. I have a 170 litre (45 gallon) tank which has been set up for about 3 months now. I started off with 6 tiger barbs. When I bought them, the water was tested, ammonia and pH were fine but nitrates were a little high which the shop attendant told me would come right after I put fish in. This surely was the case as nitrates were fine after a week. I then added 4 bala sharks and 2 dwarf gouramis and everything was still fine. A couple of weeks later I added 3 mollies and one rainbow shark. I had the water tested before I bought the new fish and the tank was given a clean bill of health. It was notlong after this that fish started to die. In one weekend all 4 bala sharks died as well as one of the mollies. I took water for another test and all was fine, they showed me the test results so I'm quite sure it was indeed fine. 2 weeks later the rainbow shark died. I added another 2 dwarf gouramis and another rainbow shark and within a week of this, all gouramis as well as the shark and one tiger barb died. (Let me add that I have been doing about a 20% water change per week). I had the water tested once more - no problems reported.

Putting everything down to bad luck I bought 4 new mollies (one male, three females) and three tiger barbs. In the last week 2 of the female mollies have died. I have noticed in the same time period that two of the tiger barbs have had some red sores on them - I'm not sure if this is just from their aggressive behaviour toward one another or if it is some parasite which may be affecting the other fish. Let me add that the 2 mollies that died this week looked a bit thin, they looked like they had a dent in their bellies.

There are no signs of ich and the water is crystal clear. I keep the tank at about 27oC (80.6oF). As mentioned earlier, I do a 20% water change a week and I treat the new water to remove the chlorine and Choramine.

Thanks for reading my essay, I hope someone can give me some advice... Pet store owners at this stage seem clueless.*c/p*

Thanks,

Marc


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

Can you list your water parameters?
PH
Ammonia
nitrates
nitrites
With these numbers it will give a better idea of what you have. The red sore are usually a sign of ammonia in the water, tiger barbs will normally not attack each other.
If you don't have the test kit I would get one, try not to get the strip test but get the ones with the drops they are much more accurate.
On a side note, and I'm sure they didn't tell you but 4 Bala sharks in a 45 gallon tank is too many. They can get to be 12" in length and really need at least a 75 gallon tank.


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## LariM78 (Nov 2, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.
From the last water test:-
pH = 7
Ammonia = 0
Nitrates = 0

I went to another pet store this afternoon for some advice and the guy there seems to think that it could be velvet causing the fish to die. Something I never mentioned in my earlier post is that before all the fish died they would crash on the bottom and swim erratically. Their fins looked clamped. This guy reckons it caused by velvet in their gills. He gave me some medication to put in the water and some coarse salt that I will put in tonight.

I just had another thought as well though. When I do my water changes I make sure that temperature of the water in the bucket is the same as that in the tank and then I treat the water to remove chlorine and chloramine and remove heavy metals. I usually wait for about 10 minutes after treating the water to put it in the tank, but is this maybe too short, should I wait a little longer?

Thanks:fish9:


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I see a bunch of things that might have happened to your fish and maybe it's a combination of things so I'll just list them:
1. Aggression: Bala sharks don't like to be too close to their own kind. Also, mollies and bala sharks can cause problems together too. 
2. Too many fish. Depending on the size that the fish were when they died you might have had too many fish for your tank. Tanks have a maximum capacity for fish. The capacity depends on a number of factors: how good the water is, how good the filter is, the size of the fish, the type of the fish, etc (I can explain these in more detail if you want)
3. Stress: Some docile fish (like some mollies) get stressed out by being in the tank with more aggressive ones and if stressed enough from this it can make them sick and/or dead.
4. Diet: What were you feeding the sharks?? My sister purchased a red tail shark from the store and the guy didn't bother to tell her that they are bottom feeders and won't bother with the flakes you put on the top of the water. He lasted 2 weeks before starving to death. 
5. Sickness: Either through a disease entering the tank or through stress getting them sick they might have gotten sick.
6. Too many too fast: Good rule of thumb is to not add more then 2 maybe 3 fish at a time then wait a few weeks before adding anymore. Putting such an extra strain on the tank can screw up your cycle.

General notes:
1. For water changes I recommend leaving the new water out for at least 24 hours before adding it to the tank and let the tap run at least 10 minutes before putting the water in the buckets. I also skip the conditioners but that's a personal choice. Test your tap water and see what that is like. Then you have a starting reference point for the water that you are adding.
2. Remember treatments for diseases are poisons and should only be used as a last resort, not the first line of defense. They can also mess up your cycle. If you do use them remove any carbon from your filter if possible. Treatments can sometimes lead an already sick fish to die anyway. Be careful with them. 
3. Keep the sex of the fish in mind when buying them and research what to expect beforehand. The male and female thing can add a lot of problems to a tank. I have 3 mollies in one of my tanks (2 males and 1 female) I had to remove one of the males and put him in a different tank because he was always picking on the other male
4. IMO, females are more prone to dropping dead then males. I'm assuming it has something to do with carrying fry but I lose a lot more pregnant females then anything else in my tank. 
5. When looking for some tank help it's a good idea to include the basics in your thread (cause someone is just going to ask you for them anyway, chances are) they would be things like: how many and what type of fish in the tank, how long the tank has been up, type and size of filter, if you cycled the tank before adding fish (or cycled with the fish whatever the case), water parameters (ammonia, nitrates and nitrites), tank size and possibly substrate.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Bottom line, your tank is cycling. It sounds like the place you are taking your water to is using test strips (just a guess) which are notoriously wrong. Stop buying fish for now and take the money you would use for that and buy your own test kit - the liquid kind. An API master test kit is preferred. Get your water under control and take a breather. Funny how they recommend velvet meds, but not a test kit.

Buying fish and having them die in a day or two is common. Fish have to do a lot of moving from tank-to-tank before they end up in yours and are under a lot of stress. One thing you can do to help a little is drip acclimate EVERYTHING. Basically, this is taking the water they came in and dripping water from the tank they are going in, into that water over a period of a couple of hours and then netting them out of that water and putting into your tank. Ph shock kills fish.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

But the fish are not dying in a day or two they are dying after 2 weeks or so. The tank has been with fish in it for 3 months so do you really think it's still cycling?? I was thinking maybe the extra big load might have messed it up somehow but would it really put it back to square one?? 

Totally agree with the master kit though. Mine is my best friend.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nope, just missed the 3 months thing, lol. Maybe I should have read the whole thing - tv was distracting me...thats my excuse.

If I had to guess I'd say columnaris, if it was disease related.


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease?

here is a link that might help zero you in on the right problem. sometimes there are problems with water quality that dont show up on kits, such as hydrogen sulfide(common in tanks with sand). i have had a disease (pfisteria piscicida) wipe out my fish in regular intervals before, but water quality problems are much more common.


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