# Sky High Ammonia (and ich)



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

I got my ammonia test kit in the mail.. FINALLY.. today. Checked it immediately expecting it to be super low and was amazed. It is reading ~.50ppm?!?! maybe a teeny bit higher.

I am wondering what caused the spike.. I set this 55 gal freshwater aquarium up with almost all of the gravel, deco and filer from my established 29 gal. It has been up and running for 3 weeks.

I have been testing all other water parameters with the API dip sticks and everything seemed to be in order (ph, nitrite and nitrate). I have been battling ich for almost a week now. I am assuming it came from the 3 baby clown loaches and moss ball I got from my lfs nearly 2 weeks ago. I would have quarantined them had the 29 gal been empty for use..

I have been using quICK cure for nearly a week but the white spots are still there and have gotten slightly worse. The worst fish only has about 6 visible spots on him, the other two having only 3 or 4. My temp stays at 84/85 degrees so the ich should be on its final stages soon.. RIGHT?! I just did a 25% water change using prime. This makes the third water change in a weeks time. I have NOT dosed the meds today because of the clowns and cory cats in my tank. I am worried about prolong use of the meds because they are so sensitive. I understand that the ich can only be killed once they fall off the fish and this has not happened yet.. I vacuumed about 4 days ago. 

I am just wondering what caused the ammonia to be so high. I am surprised ANY of my fish are even alive.. though they all seem to be doing quite alright. Active and eating normally. I had to remove my pad filter because it had carbon in it. I know that had a lot of biological bacteria in it but I also have a large sponge filter as well that I only rinse every 2 weeks using the aquarium water so that should have been enough to keep the bacteria going. Any suggestions on how to get the ammonia down? I feel bad enough for them as is with the ich and being medicated daily for so long and now this.. I feel terrible for them! *frown


----------



## Donna120 (Dec 7, 2013)

Did you retest to see if you might of made a mistake the first time? I had a problem the first time I tested, turns out I somehow messed the first one up.
I am anxious to see what others say about transferring form older tank to new. I just did the same thing about a week ago due to a leak. Seemed logical to me....


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

Donna120 said:


> Did you retest to see if you might of made a mistake the first time? I had a problem the first time I tested, turns out I somehow messed the first one up.
> I am anxious to see what others say about transferring form older tank to new. I just did the same thing about a week ago due to a leak. Seemed logical to me....


I did test twice. Once before the water change and once after. The test before the water change was even higher.. It looked closer to 1ppm.. it was diluted after the water change but I know it is possible for it to rise up again.. I am so worried.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

.5 isn't super high and could be from recent change of tanks,removing pad or meds.I don't see how a 25% waterchange could get you from 1 -.5,I would think you are more around .75.I know the test are hard to read.So if you use half the water you would get a reading twice as high as actuall(just divide it by 2),or you could use full 5ml of water(as it is hard to measure water without using the line on vial) and twice as many drops.This too should give you a reading twice as high as actuall reading to be divided by 2 to get true reading.This is just a suggestion to get a more clear reading if you are unsure.
If your clowns and cories have not been noticeably "uneffected" by the meds(my clowns have been through higher than full dose a couple times),I would change water again(anything less than 50% is pretty much useless) and dose full strength.The ich should fall within 4 days of being noticed.Could the spots be new ones(are they in the same place on fish?)?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The advice Tom gave is the best thing. Need to up your normal water changes to 50% until you get the cycling issues over with and your tank becomes more stable.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> .5 isn't super high and could be from recent change of tanks,removing pad or meds.I don't see how a 25% waterchange could get you from 1 -.5,I would think you are more around .75.I know the test are hard to read.So if you use half the water you would get a reading twice as high as actuall(just divide it by 2),or you could use full 5ml of water(as it is hard to measure water without using the line on vial) and twice as many drops.This too should give you a reading twice as high as actuall reading to be divided by 2 to get true reading.This is just a suggestion to get a more clear reading if you are unsure.
> If your clowns and cories have not been noticeably "uneffected" by the meds(my clowns have been through higher than full dose a couple times),I would change water again(anything less than 50% is pretty much useless) and dose full strength.The ich should fall within 4 days of being noticed.Could the spots be new ones(are they in the same place on fish?)?


I will test again in just a few minutes to see what it says.. I used the 5ml line both times. I am trying to use my best judgement on what color it really is.. I would agree that after the water change it was closer to .75 as it was a liiiittle darker than the .5 color. This time I will do twice the drops and divide to see if it is about the same. 

One of my corys has been swimming around more like he is annoyed.. Sometimes his swimming seems worse than others. Today is the first day I have not given the meds.. You have been with me since I first noticed the ick on the clowns which showed up a day or two after the initial spot on the cory (which I actually don't see anymore). It has certainly been more than 4 days.. I would say about 5 for the clown spots. But now the bigger clown has many more spots than a couple of days ago. They seem like the same ones but you can understand when I say that they are small and don't like to sit still so being able to recognize every individual spot is difficult. He has several new spots on his tail that were not there a couple days ago.. I don't know why it is only getting worse. I dunno what I am doing wrong.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> The advice Tom gave is the best thing. Need to up your normal water changes to 50% until you get the cycling issues over with and your tank becomes more stable.


The ph/nitrates/nitrites/gh/kh seem to be pretty stable.. at least they have been the last couple times I have checked them. Today is the first time I have been able to test the ammonia. The water is crystal clear and I never suspected the ammonia to be so high.. I will certainly be keeping a close eye on all of it, especially with all of this other mess going on. I was almost positive the cycling process was over with, though i'm sure the meds and frequent water changes have tampered with it some. I feel so lost and glad to have any advice so thank you.

I am also currently awaiting the arrival of my new HOB filter as well, which I hope will help with maintaining the best water quality. I already have Matrix biomedia made by seachem to throw in when it arrives. 

So should I continue with the meds anyway?.. I am up to a full dose now (55 drops) and like I said, the only one that seems to act kind of funny is one of my cory cats. But they are all active, even the clowns in the light and they eat normally. I do not overfeed them, though. I have been trying to keep the feeding to once a day anyway while medicating. How often should I be doing water changes of at least 50%?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Do a 50% wc an dose full like you have .IMO the meds don't last more than a day or two,so redosing is necessary.The waterchange is just to offer the fish the best quality and offset any issues(your ammonia/nitrite readings),while medicating.I do change 50% every week on all my tanks,but when medicating I change water almost every day and remedicate.If spots are showing up (more) you want meds to be at good strength since it seem they have dropped and multiplied and now are re-infecting.This happens to many so just stick with it.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> Do a 50% wc an dose full like you have .IMO the meds don't last more than a day or two,so redosing is necessary.The waterchange is just to offer the fish the best quality and offset any issues(your ammonia/nitrite readings),while medicating.I do change 50% every week on all my tanks,but when medicating I change water almost every day and remedicate.If spots are showing up (more) you want meds to be at good strength since it seem they have dropped and multiplied and now are re-infecting.This happens to many so just stick with it.


The one spot that appeared on the mickey mouse tail is now gone which had just appeared about a day ago.. but at least two of the spots that are on the big clown are new. I counted 6 just now on the big one and 2 on the smaller one which has been the same. I rechecked the ammonia and it's ~.75 so, the same as before. I am about to do another ~ 10 gallon change (I use a 5 gal bucket) and vacuum before i redose for the day. Not sure why it would fall off of the mickey mouse but not the clowns though.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

I use a cheap siphon gravel filter (where I usually have to suck the water through until the water is free flowing) and it doesn't do a good job at just kind of grazing the surface and picking up things. I have to stick it into the gravel and let it sit for a minute. Even then it doesn't get every single particle.. will that get the fallen ich efficiently, do you think?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The idea behind vacumming is to just remove what you can so it is that much less to kill.All the ich won't fall or die at the same time.Each is a living creature(a nasty one).You wouldn't expect if one fish died naturally that all others would also.Each is on it's own life cycle and it sounds like you have atleast 2 generations of ich going.Definately keep up on water changes and meds.They really should work,ich isn't hard to kill,but you do have to kill it completely or it will just keep comming back.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> The idea behind vacumming is to just remove what you can so it is that much less to kill.All the ich won't fall or die at the same time.Each is a living creature(a nasty one).You wouldn't expect if one fish died naturally that all others would also.Each is on it's own life cycle and it sounds like you have atleast 2 generations of ich going.Definately keep up on water changes and meds.They really should work,ich isn't hard to kill,but you do have to kill it completely or it will just keep comming back.


Alrighty. I tested my tap treated tap water to make sure I wasn't adding more of a threat to the water and it seems fine. It just seems as though the oldest ich never left.. I think you are right about the 2 different generations. 

Everyone looks great except the two clowns and only one looks kinda worry sum. I just did the water change and medicated ~55 drops. [It is kind of hard to make sure I get the exact number of drops. The dropper sucks butt and sometimes several drops will come out at once, so my brain must be working super hard when I do that! haha] You don't think that the prime or meds are for any reason giving me a higher ammonia reading, do ya? Just a thought. 

I will keep up with the daily water changes and medications and just hope for the best.. I will let you know if anything changes or if I have any more questions -which is almost certain! lol


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> The idea behind vacumming is to just remove what you can so it is that much less to kill.All the ich won't fall or die at the same time.Each is a living creature(a nasty one).You wouldn't expect if one fish died naturally that all others would also.Each is on it's own life cycle and it sounds like you have atleast 2 generations of ich going.Definately keep up on water changes and meds.They really should work,ich isn't hard to kill,but you do have to kill it completely or it will just keep comming back.


Update: some ich has gone and more has followed. Even worse this time.. I see it on my dalmations now and my smallest clown is flashing and has many spots. The temp has been at a stead 86 and I have been medicating with full doses and doing water changes.. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong for it to not go away.. by only worsen! I'm getting super frustrated.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If the meds were working NONE could have come back! I would increase dose,but many don't go beyond directions so choice is yours.
NO carbon in filter? NO missing, dead fish in tank?You see color from malechalite green in water next day?


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> If the meds were working NONE could have come back! I would increase dose,but many don't go beyond directions so choice is yours.
> NO carbon in filter? NO missing, dead fish in tank?You see color from malechalite green in water next day?


I know and that is why I am totally lost.. no carbon in filter. No missing or dead fish. I do not see the color in the tank after a couple of hours.. it is crystal clear pretty quickly. And sadly there is no where else to buy stuff from unless I drive an hour to get it. I've seen spots come and go.. I'm not sure what the issue is. I jist found my biggest clown floating sideways in the water. I watched him and he would every now and then wiggle a little so.. I stuck my Hand in and poked him. He swam away and ate just fine. Very weird.


----------



## OCTOhalie (Mar 25, 2014)

Just wanted to update you. The situation has not gotten better. My biggest clown now has spots near his eyes and more spread over his body. My smallest clown also has it worse than ever before. It has also made it's way back onto my mickey mouse platy for the second time. The big clown is starting to show signs of deterioration. He hovers over the same spot nearly all day and doesn't seem to have much energy as he swims with a limpish body and sometimes just seems to wanna give up. He is still eating normally but I am very much worried. The two are no longer swimming together and hide most of the day (which is unusual for them). 

What I don't get is why it seems to improve and then get worse over and over. It's been 2 weeks now and it has come and gone several times it seems, each time worse than before. I do not know what else to do and it is starting to put a strain on me emotionally, if that makes sense. I am still doing water changes and medicating. The temperature is still 86.. 

Should I stop the meds and try a different method? Maybe the salt method or Ridick+? Apparently this stuff isn't working..





coralbandit said:


> If the meds were working NONE could have come back! I would increase dose,but many don't go beyond directions so choice is yours.
> NO carbon in filter? NO missing, dead fish in tank?You see color from malechalite green in water next day?


----------

