# holy nitrite



## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Sort of confused..helping neighbor set-up a small 20g, has undergravel filter and some bio wheels-----been cycling for 5-6 weeks with some neon tetras in it.....Went there today and Nitrite was off the chart, Nitrate was 20-25, ammon 0 and PH 7.9.....It seems like it's not cycling? I am still a rookie when it comes to this stuff!!!


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

He apparently has a healthy colony of the bacteria that break down ammonia but not the ones that break down nitrites.

He should do a massive water change. And keep monitoring and doing water changes as needed.... maybe multiple per day.

An option, once the nitrite levels are more under control and at least 24 hours after using any water conditioner, add a big dose of Tetra Safestart. It contains both of the beneficial bacteria.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Thx for the reply--- we did a 50% change today...added nite-out and api startup...We will see what tomm brings!! I honestly have no idea anything was alive after the nitrite level I saw!!


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

They are alive. But suffering. Thanks for helping your neighbor and his fish!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah----I wish I knew why it got to that point---everything last week was fine....I am still in the learning process when it comes to the bio stuff


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

Me too.... but have been doing a ton of reading since getting back into aquariums. 

Knock on wood, I am a month into the cycling process and had 0/0/10 readings after about two weeks and have yet to see any nitrite spike. I have twice seen the lowest reading of ammonia and was able to remove it both times by doing a large water change. I have also been doing 40 percent changes twice a week.

My 75 gallon is cycling beautifully with the help of Tetra Safestart. Now I am beginning again on a 20 gallon I just set up for my teenage son.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

thanks again---and good luck


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You guys are doing good.High nitrItes are typical during cycling(especially fish in)nitrAte under 40 is ok.Since there are fish in tank water must be changed as you did.Expect to see high nitrItes again tomorrow as % of water changed will equal % nutients(nitrIte )will go down.So "off the charts" will be 5 to me and tomorrow you should expect 2-3 nitrItes at least.Keep changing water they're almost through the cycle.It can take 6-8 weeks for some tanks to cycle.Done properly(close to tank temp and pH) multiple water changes daily will not hurt anything.


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

Thanks and same to you. Please keep this thread updated on your neighbor's nitrite status. Thanks.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks for the info bandit!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok----checked levels yesterday and Nitrites 3-3.5, Nitrates 20, Ammon 0, PH 7.9. Nitirites slowly coming down---Did another 50% water change yesterday, not getting in the gravel. Slowly but surely I think its headed in the right direction!!


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

Getting there. That high Ph isn't helping. Toxins are more toxic at high Ph levels. 

Appreciate your efforts and the update!


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Not sure if I should any PH lower in the tank----out of the tap it's on the high end of PH...Or if there is something else I can do to lower it..


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

even if you try to lower the PH, as long as he uses tap water during water changes, it would be an uphill battle. 

I say the Ph is what it is. Get those nitrites under control and teach him how to keep them under control. Is he doing multiple water changes every day, big ones ? That 50% change yesterday was good but I'd be doing at least two per day. 

Has he lost any fish yet ?


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

His tank wasnt heavily stocked---3 neon tetras (still alive) and 4 ghost shrimp (0 alive). I have been trying to show him how to water change but he doesnt feel comfortable yet doing it himself----So we have only been doing it once a day because of my schedule.


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

That's too bad. He really needs to become knowledgeable and comfortable with water changes. Are you using a drain and fill kit like a Python or one of the other options available ? really makes the process simple and nearly effortless.

Those are some tough little Neons. But even though they are living, they are being damaged internally more every day. He should consider moving them to another tank, even if it's someone else's.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

I will check and see tonight how it's doing and do another water change---I should've moved them to my quarantine tank, but little did I know what was going on. I still may do that, but they may be in complete shock with me having not Nitrites or Nitrates.


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

If your quarantine tank is cycled, they will likely leap out of the water and kiss you after being in the neighbor's tank with those sky high nitrites for a few days.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Hey guys---Well I went over to my neighbors last night and these were the results...Ammon 0, nitrites 3, nitrates 10, ph 7.9. I didnt move them to my quarantine tank because I have 5 bumblebee african cichlids in there and didn't want to be the one to tell the neighbor my cichlids tore the neons up....they are small cichlids but ya never know with them. So I did about a 65-70% water change. Would it help if I did get in the gravel? I figured that would be where the good bacteria is stored and didnt want to interrupt that. Thanks again for the replies, they are surely welcomed!


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

You can vacuum the first half inch or so of the gravel and you wouldn't disturb much of the beneficial bacteria if any. Most of those tiny critters are in the filter media. Ones in the gravel are nearer the bottom.

There is definitely improvement but a ways to go. You are doing all you can, so his fish thank you as do I. And I agree your tank is not an option.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The tank is close to completing cycle process.While the nitrItes are high the nitrAtes are growing in.I will guess your neighbor needs to have a "how to properly feed your fish" talk.Only as much as is eaten in 2 minutes.Tell him to only feed once a day only for next week.A guess will be this tank will be straightened out in a week or less now.Then he needs to stock slowly with compatible fish for the neons. 
You're a good nieghbor and his fish (present and future) I'm sure are thankful.Like Chris said you can vac 1/2 without problem and this may even be the finishing touch as the levels are fairly high for stocking level(leading me to feeding thought) and have to believe there is "some" crap in the gravel.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Thx Bandit----I will keep plugging away on his tank...I will get partially into the gravel and go from there!! It is nice to come home and test my tank and get 0's across the board!!


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## TroyVSC (Aug 29, 2012)

One thought. I would go get Tetra Safe Start. I have used the API Quick Start and it didn't do much of anything to help my tank cycle. Only water changes and more water changes helped my fish survive before I knew what i was doing.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

The first thing I talked to my neighbor was how much are you feeding them--he showed me and said stop it! Once a day and it wouldnt hurt once every other day....So he is doing that right now.

I will jump in the gravel today.......


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Here's a thought - while you may be vacuuming up a lot of muck from the gravel, you'll also be disturbing uneaten food.
It's probably advisable to add another filter specifically for the mech filtration - and after a week or so this will contribute to the bio-filter.
Even a cheap floss/air filter will work wonders - even temporarily.
I've recently had a bad yeast spill experience and what finally cleared it was adding a whole layer of floss at$0.25 in the cannister - on top of my filter sponges.
After the floss got coated with bacterial slime, it seems to have collected every bit of yeast I had in there.
cb


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Just got home from the neighbors and glad to say everything is down except a bit high on the PH 8.0, amm 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates below 5. Good Stuff!! Our tap water is a bit high on the PH----he just has regular pebble gravel..Not sure if there is a substrate I can add to his tank or just use the API PH Lower everytime he adds water. Thx for all the comments-----


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## CAM (Jan 27, 2013)

Trying to fight Ph is an uphill battle. using r/o water all the time is an expensive but effective way. Additives are temporary and every time you change water, you're at it again and trying to keep it at a lower PH on a consistent basis would be fruitless. Easier to maintain fish that can handle a higher PH level and maintain the tank by doing periodic water changes, maintaining your filter media, vacuuming the gravel, and testing frequently. As I said yesterday, high PH levels make any ammonia or nitrites even more toxic than they would be in water with a lower PH. 

surprised those nitrites dropped from 3 to 0 so quickly but COOL ! Now he needs to feed less and change water more to keep it from happening again. But I know you are preaching to him about both those things.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks Cam----I did another tutorial today about feeding and I think now he knows what I am talking about.....


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I keep discus at 7.6 .I no longer even desire to alter my ph.A pair actually spawned in the 180,as did a pair of angels 7.6!Those pairs are in breeding tanks with adjusted water as I can produce 75 g of ro a day,but lo and behold (I'm observant and will shout it out before the fact)there is another pair of discus in the 180(out of 7 discus) that are performing all the courtship rituals for the last week.
I would not alter pH in tank ,but slowly acclimate newcombers(hours,2+) and then be free to change water easily and at any volume necessary.Have I mentioned "I CHANGE WATER",64 gallons in my 180 today,only 32 yesterday.Tap dechlorinated and pre warmed(those two things are far more important to the existing fish than the ph,which is consistent since I make no attempt to adjust).


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Sounds good....Doing a little research I think of my neighbors neon tetras has the neon tetra disease....I could be wrong but with the unstable water conditions the past few days I am leaning toward it.....After all that work!! UGH....


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Through the cycling process they are suceptable to almost anything.NTD is fairly uncommon,but a possibility.The neons are readily available,colorful, and relatively cheap, and rank right up in the top of the worst fish to cycle with.
Also just on re-call NTD often shows no symptoms before the carnage begins,and definately is not easily cured(if any cure is offered,it's more luck).


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

If it was my tank I would probably throw them in a quarantine tank by themselves..But don't want them over at my house and he doesn't have another tank. So I honestly would never trust to put anything else in that tank for quite some time...So should I pull everything out and start and do many water changes in the gravel? Keep the water chemicals the way they should be kept because this disease is caused from unstable water conditions.....So I don't know right now


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Let them be and see if more stable water conditions make them more comfortable.Since there is nothing else in tank,it is what it is.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

I will do that---Water conditions are fabulous compared to a few days ago! The reason that got me concerned cause I noticed a bulge, possible bloating under the belly of one of them. Maybe I am overreacting, but better safe than sorry! I will keep an eye on them the next few days. It wont hurt to wait and see a bit!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Neon Tetra Disease - Causes, Treatment, And Tips For Prevention
In general not really much one can do.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah----sometimes this unfortunately happens---we are going to assess the situation in a couple days and see if this chemical balance changes them...maybe its something else...which it could be. With this disease, does it just stay within the fish or does it affect the water/gravel as well....? From what I read its a parasite in the fish and other fish get it from the carrier.


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## Dave Waits (Oct 12, 2012)

This is gonna sound weird...Don't worry about the PH. If the fish were locally bought, in all probability, they were raised in water with the same PH. People have to remember that the fish they buy are many,many generations, most times, removed from their natural habitat. Further, dropping PH can be dangerous to the fish. You shouldn't change the PH more than 1/2 point a day or you can shock the fish. Usually though, when you test the next day you'll find the PH has bounced back to what it was before you treated yesterday.


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Just an update on my neighbors tank---Everything is looking good---all the chemical levels, etc. He currently has a dwarf Gourami, couple of red wag platys and a couple sunburst platys. Unfortunately, the neon tetras didnt make it because of the unhealthy water he had them in. But my neighbor is in training as well as myself at all times. But the family is enjoying the new and lively fish!! Thx for all your help!


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## ionix (Oct 11, 2012)

Huge thread, I didn't read it all.

But, maybe you should consider getting an Reverse Osmosis system for you and your fishies. Not sure if it is in the budget but I figured I might as well put it out there (if it hasn't already).


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## Jim Albright (Jan 22, 2013)

Actually Ionix my neighbor was overfeeding the 3 neon tetras way too much and not doing regular water changes---as well as the tank wasnt fully cycled. Water out of tap wasnt bad at all ---he just didnt know what he was doing.


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