# cycle advice needed 55GAL



## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

*cycle advice needed **UPDATE***

So im pretty impatient. And i just got my new 55 gallon set-up aquaclear 110 filter system, heater, and they gave me these water prep supplies with the kit. 

-Vitamin & Mineral pyramids
-Bio-Boost---for nitro and bacterial additive
-Aquarium SALT
-Complete water conditioner

The lady at the store basically told me I cant buy fish for like a 1-2 months while the tank preps. Well like i said i dont want to wait that long. So whats the best thing i could do if i wanted the few day tank cycle? 

Im having a friend with an established tank bring over a cup of his gravel. I read somewhere that is one way of introducing bacteria to the tank quickly.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

The only way to avoid a cycle is to get used filter media/gravel and use it to seed the tank. Otherwise your choices are fish in(dont reccomend) or fishless- using straight ammonia. Either way you're looking at 3-6 weeks to cycle. Don't be impatient, this is not the hobby for you if you are. To do it right and have your fish stay alive you have got to take your time.


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## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

funny i never remember this as a kid. I just stuck fish in and they seemed to do just fine. 

Hell just recently i stuck a beta in a decorative pot on my kitchen and that thing lived for a couple years. 

Not saying you guys are completely wrong. Just saying really.


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

Like summer said, the gravel your friend is bringing you will help. You can work on getting your tank planted while it cycles, if you want a planted tank. The plants will help with the cycle as well. Do your research on what plants you like and want in there. Then you can start researching what fish you want in the tank. Test your tank everyday and if you do all this you're tank will be cycled before you know it. Like summer said you can do a fish cycle but it doesn't speed up your cycle and I don't recommend this either. You can end up spending a bunch of money replacing fish and the high ammonia and nitrite can damage the fishes gills and after that their life quality isn't that great. Your friend could bring you some of his tank water and any decor he is willing to part with as well to help.


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## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

okay thank you very much^


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

bgwilly31 said:


> funny i never remember this as a kid. I just stuck fish in and they seemed to do just fine.
> 
> Hell just recently i stuck a beta in a decorative pot on my kitchen and that thing lived for a couple years.
> 
> Not saying you guys are completely wrong. Just saying really.


Summer isn't wrong at all. What she said is complete fact and has been proven. When you were a kid practices were different. And just so you know betta fish live 5+ years when cared for properly. 

Read up on the nitrogen cycle. Now when you just throw fish into an aquarium for the first week or so they will be perfectly fine, however after that initial week you will start to see ammonia, then after your ammonia spikes and eventually drops to 0ppm, you will see nitrite spikes. Once the both the ammonia and nitrite are 0ppm your cycle is complete. Both of these are extremely toxic to fish and if they get above 1 (and trust me they do, it was fun when I was cycling my tank and I was seeing 5+ for ammonia and nitrites I am glad I didn't cycle with fish), you need to do an immediate water change otherwise your fish will suffer burns around their gills. Nitrates aren't as important, but they can hurt fish too. If you do a with fish cycle if nitrates ever get above 40ppm you need to do a water change. 

With a fishless cycle you don't need to worry about the fish at all, because there aren't any fish so you can let the levels get as high as they want. This leads to a faster and safer cycle for the fish.

You could do a silent cycle, but it isn't as safe as fishless cycling, but it is a whole lot safer than with fish cycling.

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e...w.aquahobby.com/articles/e_silent_cycling.php

Essentially the goal is to use a bunch of live plants to help absorb a lot of the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates so that a cycle still goes on, but neither ammonia or nitrites spike. Remember though this still means you need to watch your water chemistry closely and do water changes anytime ammonia or nitrites are > 1ppm or if nitrates are > 40ppm.

I can and always will suggest fishless cycling, but there are alternatives.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

compare what the lady at the lfs stated to the limk in my signature.


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## scooterlady (May 10, 2011)

Using plants can almost eliminate the need to cycle. It has to be heavily planted. You can put a few fish in at a time every week or so and you may not even see a spike in ammonia, nitrites or nitrates and the fish are much happier too...and it looks nice...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Whether you use plants, seeded material from another tank, etc., the tank will still cycle. No matter which route there must be ammonia present, either by putting in fish or an alternate ammonia source. Using the gravel from another tank should shorten the time period. Using used water will do nothing for you, however.

You could just throw in the fish and leave to chance if you like, your choice. I would at least get a liquid test kit so you can test the water and see what is going on.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

agree with Ben. Get a test kit at least then you can watch the cycle happen. This isnt something that just came up in recent years, when you were a kid the tank still had to cycle. Thats just how it works...


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## piklmike (Jul 14, 2011)

bgwilly31 said:


> funny i never remember this as a kid. I just stuck fish in and they seemed to do just fine.
> 
> Hell just recently i stuck a beta in a decorative pot on my kitchen and that thing lived for a couple years.
> 
> Not saying you guys are completely wrong. Just saying really.


I know what you mean. When I was a kid, I did the same thing. 5Gal. tank undergravel filter, and a couple a Gold fish. We are talking 1959 here, 9 years old and I know "EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW IN THE UNIVERSE!" As long as I didn't leak water on the ARMY ISSUE HARDWOOD FLOOR! No problem. No Parental input, no internet, only source of info, school library. After flushing several dead goldfish over the next few months, I got some parental input from my mother. "NO YOU CAN NOT KEEP WHITE RATS IN YOUR ROOM! NOT IN MY HOUSE"!!!! End of discussion. End of keeping any live pets!


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

bgwilly31 said:


> The lady at the store basically told me I cant buy fish for like a 1-2 months while the tank preps. Well like i said i dont want to wait that long. So whats the best thing i could do if i wanted the few day tank cycle?


Wow! this may be the first time I've heard of a sales person giving such good advice!

I know what it's like to be impatient but impatience really is the best way to kill fish. Are you going to have a planted tank? As others have said lots of plants might make it safe to put fish in sooner. Adding gravel from an established tank can speed things up a lot too. Other than that try to take your time and enjoy setting up and decorating your tank and deciding what fish you want to keep.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I disagree with the advice from the store. I'll be a rebel here, and say the fishless cycle is a recreational activity for people who like water testing. In my heretical opinion, to cycle a 55, you need half a dozen small fish you intend to keep. Ideally, if those fish aren't herbivores, you need live plants. And, if at all possible, you must seed the filter. The latter is extremely important.
With extremely low stocking, you need patience and self discipline. Do weekly 25% water changes religiously, and keep the stocking very low for 5-6 weeks. Add a few more fish then, but stay way understocked. Slowly build. It takes six months to have a solid tank, and a year to have one that really looks good. It's like a garden.

I have the benefit of experience, and the eye it gives you for trouble, but I have not had a tank crash out from ammonia in 25 years. I run a multi-tank fishroom, and have plenty of opportunity to create disasters. If I understock, keep it lean and stay patient (and seed the filters - a luxury with multiple tanks), all is well. However, my test kits expired in the mid 1990s, and I have never replaced them. I can't give you data or numbers, as I haven't bothered. I go from new fish survival rates and tank functioning, fish breeding, etc.

My view is that the great majority of new tank disasters are from the overcrowding of new tanks and the one inch per gallon myth, and from low quality practices at fish farms. I have another advantage - access to wild-caught fish (I tend to keep rarities) and they so rarely crash compared to what I see from fishfarmed animals that scare me even when I put them into established tanks.

I'll sound extreme and go up the middle. The fishless cycle is a chemistry experiment from which you can learn interesting stuff. The one inch of fish per 10-15 gallons for the first six weeks approach drives new aquarists crazy and makes them rush things, shoehorn in already unhealthy fish and crash. The cycle is essential. Water changes are more important than tests. Slow and steady wins the race.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

navigator black said:


> I disagree with the advice from the store. I'll be a rebel here, and say the fishless cycle is a recreational activity for people who like water testing. In my heretical opinion, to cycle a 55, you need half a dozen small fish you intend to keep. Ideally, if those fish aren't herbivores, you need live plants. And, if at all possible, you must seed the filter. The latter is extremely important.
> With extremely low stocking, you need patience and self discipline. Do weekly 25% water changes religiously, and keep the stocking very low for 5-6 weeks. Add a few more fish then, but stay way understocked. Slowly build. It takes six months to have a solid tank, and a year to have one that really looks good. It's like a garden.
> 
> I have the benefit of experience, and the eye it gives you for trouble, but I have not had a tank crash out from ammonia in 25 years. I run a multi-tank fishroom, and have plenty of opportunity to create disasters. If I understock, keep it lean and stay patient (and seed the filters - a luxury with multiple tanks), all is well. However, my test kits expired in the mid 1990s, and I have never replaced them. I can't give you data or numbers, as I haven't bothered. I go from new fish survival rates and tank functioning, fish breeding, etc.
> ...


I still think the advice from the store was very good advice. I don't think you can get around the fact that the fishless cycle is a safe and humane method. I do agree it's not the ONLY way to start up a new tank.

With seeded gravel a seeded filter and the right plants and the right condition for plants and adding fish very slowly it is possible to have next to no spikes in ammonia and nitrites. I have done it myself and I'm sure you are able do it with ease but you do have 25 years experience and a fish room with plenty of access to seeded filter media etc, it is a little different for someone setting up a new and only tank.

Whatever method used patience is the key .


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I understand what is being said, but I only tested once a day for a fishless cycle - no different than I would for a fish-in cycle. A cycle in of itself, regardless of method used to get to a completion point, can be considered a science experiment. Whether or not you test during a cycle period is largely a choice. I have tested regardless of what method I used, plants, seeded material, etc.. - because that is the way I chose to do it. However, the method I used didn't force me to do it. 

How I stocked my tanks had nothing to do with how I cycled it. So can't really understand what you're saying there. Again, the method didn't force anything.


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## piklmike (Jul 14, 2011)

snail said:


> I still think the advice from the store was very good advice. I don't think you can get around the fact that the fishless cycle is a safe and humane method. I do agree it's not the ONLY way to start up a new tank.
> 
> With seeded gravel a seeded filter and the right plants and the right condition for plants and adding fish very slowly it is possible to have next to no spikes in ammonia and nitrites. I have done it myself and I'm sure you are able do it with ease but you do have 25 years experience and a fish room with plenty of access to seeded filter media etc, it is a little different for someone setting up a new and only tank.
> 
> Whatever method used patience is the key .


Ditto! I agree. I too have several tanks and am in the process of restocking a 35G corner tank, previously occupied by Tony the Tiger Oscar. a complete make over. Aquascaped and filled Saturday. Probably could add fish now but why push it. "PATIENCE FISHHOPPER". PEACE AND TRANQUILITY COME TO THOSE WHO LET NATURE TAKE IT'S COURSE.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I never test every day with a fishless cycle. I just check once in a while to see whats going on. I actually think you could do a fishless cycle with no testing if you were patient enough. With fish in the tank I'm much more concerned about testing.


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## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

Well heres an update:::

I tested the tank last night. Went out and bought a $30 Full API kit. 

The tank was filled on 3-26-12.

4-1-12::::Used gravel from friends tank
4-2-12:::: 5 Mollies and one small pictus cat added 
4-6-12:::Last night Water Tested for 0ppm amonia 0ppm Nitrite PH Lvl of 7.5 And Nitrate of 40ppm*w3 Thats what im hoping 

I actually went out and bought my fire Eel and 2 black Ghost Knifes last night and added them. Hope it works out. I'll continue testing though. 

Forgot to mention when tank was filled Bio Boost was added


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

That's a deadly sort of mix of very sensitive fish to cycle with. Actually, it strikes me as a deadly sort of mix, period.

What is a "tiger cat"? If it's what it usually is, a red-tailed cat, all bets are off, and your fish are all doomed. I hope it isn't, but if it is, spend no more money.


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

Yeah when i bought my 55g The sales people told me " I would be able to add a fish in about a week". I then asked them why they would say that when its three to eight weeks to properly cycle a tank, and left them dumbfounded.


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## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

navigator black said:


> That's a deadly sort of mix of very sensitive fish to cycle with. Actually, it strikes me as a deadly sort of mix, period.
> 
> What is a "tiger cat"? If it's what it usually is, a red-tailed cat, all bets are off, and your fish are all doomed. I hope it isn't, but if it is, spend no more money.


sorry its a pictus cat. Tiger is what i want or a red Tail later on when other fish have grown a little more.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Whew. 
A red-tail gets about as big as you, and needs a flooded, glass-lined basement to keep. A 55 would be like trying a hippo in a teacup.

Pictus are tough enough, and you are stocked well past the max already.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

You are pushing the limits too much. You are adding fish very quickly and as said they are sensitive ones. 

Do some reading about your knife fish, I think your tank is small for one adult without any other fish in the tank. 

As navigator black says whatever you do don't get a red-tailed catfish, unless you've got a heated swimming pool for it.


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## bgwilly31 (Apr 2, 2012)

snail said:


> You are pushing the limits too much. You are adding fish very quickly and as said they are sensitive ones.
> 
> Do some reading about your knife fish, I think your tank is small for one adult without any other fish in the tank.
> 
> As navigator black says whatever you do don't get a red-tailed catfish, unless you've got a heated swimming pool for it.


im planning on having to upgrade. However thats unfortunate the red tail is a very cool looking fish.


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