# Really need help!!!



## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm very upset and stress to see one of my beautiful goldfish so ill! She's been acting like this for 2-3 days, I noticed her odd behaviour when she wasn't as hyperactive as she should be. I thought it might be ammonia in the water and got i tested straight away when i noticed her behaviour, Xiang (My male goldfish) Had swim bladder disease, so I went for the pea treatment and it worked perfectly with him he began to swim around without trouble in an hour or two and i thought Fan (girl fish who is ill) might have the opposite where she sinks to the bottom and i tried feeding her a pea and she refused, she swam away from me which i thought was really strange for her because Fan is very social and will swim to my hand and accept my food and maybe even lie in my hand if i put it flat, and she swam away and didn't take the pea so i thought maybe she doesn't like pea and i placed in her favourite food which is frozen bloodworm and she again didn't eat it.

So i knew now something was really up with her, I checked for signs and saw a small bump but i thought it was nothing. This was yesterday.... so i went to the fish shop and told her symptoms to the owner and he was confused he couldn't think why, he tested the water himself and saw it was fine. So i went home and looked towards the tank to see Fan like this









I panicked and ran over to the tank thinking she was dead and placed my hand in and picked her up and noticed a the small bump had gotten much bigger and i was thinking This is either an ulcer or a tumour.... she lay in my hands before she began to wiggle in my hand and she looked in pain, Like i said Fan is a very social fish and she lets me hold her and check her so i did and by lord that lump is large, I went back to the fish shop owner and he said it could be an uslcer, and gave me this stuff called Myxazin which cures fin/body rot, ulcers, cloudly/pop eye and other bacterial infections so i followed the intrcutions and i am paniking because these fishes are like my children.

Xiang again has still got swim bladder. even though is stopped for a few hours after giving him a pea and i'm not sure if he's doing this on purpose. seeming he likes to swim around at the top and likes to float at the top which is very annoying.

So what i'm asking is, Is there a way to help get rid of uclers? or is it just sit and wait for her to get better, it's just horrible seeing her on her side obviously in pain. I want my lovely fish back to her old self. Also i should point this out, just in case these have anything to do with it.








i found what looks like dragonfly lavi....but i doubt they'll have something to do with fan....


I'll show you guys more pictures of Fan, just so you can get a better idea what's up with her. the lump is on her right side, she likes to lie on her left because of it.


























It's horrible just turning around and seeing her like this. So please really help!!! if i'm doing something wrong tell me ): 
I'll tell you what my tank levels are at.
PH - 7
NO3 - 0/10 (the colour chart is rubbed off on mine but shop owner says it's perfect)
NO2 -0
GH - 16D
KH - 6D
CL2 - 0

erm... I've check the temp and apparently it's gone up to 22-23 decrease last i checked it was at 18....and i have a 20 gallon tank. Please help!


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

It's difficult to tell from pictures...it could be swim bladder but it sorta looks like a condition called _Dropsy_, which is basically kidney failure that causes fluid build up. Sadly, if Fan has Dropsy it might be too late to save her. I would try adding Epsom Salt to the water...about a 1/2 teaspoon for a 20 gallon tank...maybe a little more and it would be best to move her to a hospital tank if you have one. Epsom Salt may pull some of the fluid out of her. DO NOT use aquarium salt or table salt because that may make ther bloat more. You might also try a broad spectrum antibiotic as Dropsy is often a symptom of a bacterial condition.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

The scales don't look to be out. I'm thinking internal parasites, because the flanks of the fish are lean. 
As with any antibiotic, you have to follow the course for the full treatment.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Do you think the insect could be a fish louse? There are slender bodied ones. I've only seen the round ones, but I'd google image 'fish louse' and work through a few pages looking if I were you.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

navigator black said:


> The scales don't look to be out. I'm thinking internal parasites, because the flanks of the fish are lean.
> As with any antibiotic, you have to follow the course for the full treatment.


Yeah, her scales aren't out. I've been given antibiotics, but if it is internal parasites how do i get rid of them? just continue with the antibiotics?

also i've discovered her fins have been ripped.









I sadly don't have a hospital tank ): I trying to think of a way to seperate her from the other fish, I have a spare filter, so i'm not sure that i should buy a fish tank like a cheap one, seeming i have a spare filter and heater. I should propally make a hospital tank


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Goby said:


> It's difficult to tell from pictures...it could be swim bladder but it sorta looks like a condition called _Dropsy_, which is basically kidney failure that causes fluid build up. Sadly, if Fan has Dropsy it might be too late to save her. I would try adding Epsom Salt to the water...about a 1/2 teaspoon for a 20 gallon tank...maybe a little more and it would be best to move her to a hospital tank if you have one. Epsom Salt may pull some of the fluid out of her. DO NOT use aquarium salt or table salt because that may make ther bloat more. You might also try a broad spectrum antibiotic as Dropsy is often a symptom of a bacterial condition.


I really hope it isn't dropsy ): This only started really yesterday, she can swim around but it looks very painful to move that she gives up and lies back down, She swims to the bottom and finds a place to rest, Where can i buy Epsom Salt? her scales aren't out like a it says with dropsy ); she's gone one swollen side which is the right, all her her scales are down and she moves about but it looks very painful like said. ):


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

aww the poor thing  she looks so pitiful! How long have you had her? I would do a hospital tank just so if she has something contagous she cant pass it on to your other fish


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Swollen just on the one side sort of sounds like a tumor, but from my experience those take longer to develop... Granted, this was with a betta, not a goldfish, so maybe it sets in faster on them. If it is a tumor then there sadly isn't anything you can do other than try to keep her comfortable. Your best bet is to treat it like a parasite or bacteria infection and hope it's one of those instead. 

The ripped fins are probably from how she's been on the bottom so much, that doesn't look like the smoothest gravel, so when she flails against it the gravel is probably scratching up the tail to the point it frays. The epsom salts help encourage the fins to regrow if I remember right, or maybe that was normal aquarium salt... Someone better at treating fins can correct me on that


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Summer said:


> aww the poor thing  she looks so pitiful! How long have you had her? I would do a hospital tank just so if she has something contagous she cant pass it on to your other fish


I've had her since november ): she was my birthday gift. I feel so bad for her, just feel bad i can't wave a magic wand and make her better. I'm looking up online how to make one very quickly seeming i need to move her out that tank as soon as. ):


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

If you pull her out into a hospital tank (which I recommend), make sure to leave the bottom bare so there's nothing she can catch her damaged fins on. Keep the water pristine with large daily water changes (only if the meds you're using allow this) and you won't have to worry about having ammonia spikes from a freshly set up tank further stressing her.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

luananeko said:


> If you pull her out into a hospital tank (which I recommend), make sure to leave the bottom bare so there's nothing she can catch her damaged fins on. Keep the water pristine with large daily water changes (only if the meds you're using allow this) and you won't have to worry about having ammonia spikes from a freshly set up tank further stressing her.


I need some tips on making a hospital tank seeming i have never made one of these before, My other fish Xiang is getting ripped fins too all of a sudden, My tank is out of control at the moment. Can someone tell me step by step or link me to something that gives me detail about hospital tanks I need this tank by tomorrow or Soon as! I'm going out to get the tank and i've put the spare filter in the main tank now to get some bacteria in it, The spare heater is working fine! Should i used the water from my main tank for the hospital tank and do a normal water change with the main to fill the empty water?

I'm slightly stressing, this is my first big problem! D:


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

set up at least a 10 gal with a filter using media from your already existing filter, as stated above i'd keep it barebottom, do daily large water changes and treat with appropriate meds. remember to remove carbon while using meds as it will remove them from the water


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Summer said:


> set up at least a 10 gal with a filter using media from your already existing filter, as stated above i'd keep it barebottom, do daily large water changes and treat with appropriate meds. remember to remove carbon while using meds as it will remove them from the water


The medicine i'm using for her says to do a water change before adding it in, add it in once a day for 5 days then do another water change if she's not better repeat, I also have air stone, which would produce oxgyen, I'll put a plant in there for her, Keep it graveless. I'm not sure what other medicine i should put in there or just leave it for now.


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

That's probably enough for now. I know it's tempting to try and cover all scenarios because you're frantic to help your fish, but if you try to do too many types of treatment at once it only stresses the fish out more. Make sure you follow the dosing instructions and full course of treatment. If it doesn't seem to be working at the end of the treatment cycle, THEN you can attempt a different method. Cutting off a treatment mid-cycle is how you get medicine resistant bacteria/parasites, which is bad news all around.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

luananeko said:


> That's probably enough for now. I know it's tempting to try and cover all scenarios because you're frantic to help your fish, but if you try to do too many types of treatment at once it only stresses the fish out more. Make sure you follow the dosing instructions and full course of treatment. If it doesn't seem to be working at the end of the treatment cycle, THEN you can attempt a different method. Cutting off a treatment mid-cycle is how you get medicine resistant bacteria/parasites, which is bad news all around.


Hey, I've setted up a Hospital tank, I'm a bit worried that i added some of the main tanks water into the Hospital tank for some of the bacteria to settle in the filter. I'm worried I've disturbed the treatment cycle, I also need to find a way to get her slime coat, because she has seemed to have lost it.
here is the Hospital tank:









Someone is telling me to use melafix but like i said I am using Myxazin for her treatment, I fed her one little pellet which she ate which is a good sign that she ate it. I don't want to stress her out when i move her into the hospital tank (that's if she survives when the cycle of the tank is completed in a week or less.) she's not showing signs of dopsy yet. (touch wood) her scales are flat I hope and think.









Also the male goldfish is getting depressed, I'm not sure if this him being lonely or he's sick as well. Before i got fan he wasn't hyperactive or social then when i introduced her, he perked up now he's acting like his old self. I'm not sure if i should move him into the hospital tank with her encase he is ill as well or leave him in the main tank while she's in the hospital tank. these two are close together and always swam together so i'm not sure if i move her out and leave him in the tank he'll get stress and get an illness also...


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Your male might get depressed, but he shouldn't get sick from that. He's really better off staying in your main tank so he's not subjected to the various treatments and so he doesn't catch anything that your female might have.

Melafix is a wonderful antibiotic and helps with slime coating. I don't know how it would interact with your existing medication however. If it's any sort of antibiotic then you really need to finish the treatment cycle rather than stopping and swapping to Melafix. I did a quick google search to see if Melafix can be used at the same time as Myxazin, and the general consensus seems to be that they should be used separately or you risk overdosing the fish.

At this point I think you need to wait for the cycle to settle in the hospital tank (hopefully you used seed material from your main tank) and continue your current round of treatment. Once the Myxazin treatment is done if she's not any better you can try swapping to Melafix while she's in the hospital tank. It's all a matter of waiting to see if she pulls through.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, Sadly Fan didn't survived. She was breathing very slowly this morning so i thought now would be the best time to put her out her misery, I brought Clove Oil but by they time i came back she'd died.

She got dropsy over night and in the middle of the day her scales were up. I'm still running the Hospital tank because i am not risking another fish getting ill and i can't treat them probably. 

The male is swimming fine but looks like he is depressed, he's not as lively as he usually is and keep going behind the filter where Fan used to rest. I'm staring to worry that Xiang (male) is developing something, so i'm keeping a close eye on him. I'm gonna keep on eye out for another female for him, but that won't be for 2 weeks.

Thanks for all your help! Even though she didn't survived, I've learnt symptoms to what Fan had, Even though it's still a mystery to what caused dropsy but these are fancies we're talking about xD Any way thanks for the tips and help! x


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear she didn't make it  It's always frustrating when a fish you really care about is suffering and you're not sure the best way to help them. Hopefully your boy is just missing his friend, in which case he should perk back up once you find him another girl


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

No doubt Fan was an exceptional goldfish. And you are an exceptional goldfish keeper! You came to this forum with an open mind, asked for guidance, and did everything you could for her. Very inspiring...

I have a hunch Fan had dropsy even before her scales pine-coned. Dropsy is not a disease; rather it's the progressive symptom of a disease process. Dropsy often begins as an accumulation of fluid within an organ, usually the kidney. The fluid-filled organ causes a lump. Eventually the fluid leaks into the nearest body cavity which then causes a bigger lump. Finally, the fluid leaks into all soft tissues causing the scales to rise up. 

Dropsy has been linked to many factors...poor water conditions and bacterial infections to name a couple. That said, you may never know what caused Fan to get dropsy. Even fish that appear disease free and swim in pristine water develop it. Simply being a fancy goldfish predisposed Fan to the condition. Fish that have been bred to have a distorted mid-section seem to be at higher risk for dropsy, constipation, bloat, swim bladder disease you name it. 

So since you fancy fish that are prone to dropsy, I encourage you to learn how to treat them with Epsom salts. I've had success with Epsom salt dosing and Epsom salt baths. Epsom salt pulls the fluid out of the fish. This makes the fish _feel_ better which promotes their appetite and keeps them alive long enough for medications to cure their disease. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And while there's no reason to believe Epsom salt would have saved Fan...I do believe that Epsom salt could be a useful tool for you and your fish in the future. I also recommend Oxolinic Acid Powder x 3 days as the first-course antibiotic treatment for dropsy. You can order it from an aquatic pharmaceutical website. Oxolinic Acid is absorbed through the skin. I also suggest raising the water temp to about 85 degrees. And unfortunately, since goldfish who survive dropsy tend to relapse off and on throughout the remainder of their life... I'd keep my Epsom salts and Oxolinic Powder nearby and keep their water on the warmer side at all times. 

I wish you and Xiang all the best!





Jinyuu said:


> Well, Sadly Fan didn't survived. She was breathing very slowly this morning so i thought now would be the best time to put her out her misery, I brought Clove Oil but by they time i came back she'd died.
> 
> She got dropsy over night and in the middle of the day her scales were up. I'm still running the Hospital tank because i am not risking another fish getting ill and i can't treat them probably.
> 
> ...


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Goby said:


> No doubt Fan was an exceptional goldfish. And you are an exceptional goldfish keeper! You came to this forum with an open mind, asked for guidance, and did everything you could for her. Very inspiring...
> 
> I have a hunch Fan had dropsy even before her scales pine-coned. Dropsy is not a disease; rather it's the progressive symptom of a disease process. Dropsy often begins as an accumulation of fluid within an organ, usually the kidney. The fluid-filled organ causes a lump. Eventually the fluid leaks into the nearest body cavity which then causes a bigger lump. Finally, the fluid leaks into all soft tissues causing the scales to rise up.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much, Do you know were i can get Epsom salt? I'll get all of that stuff for the hospital tank so i don't make the same mistake where i didn't have anything, including the hospital tank. I'll be getting another female for Xiang and she'll be put into the hospital tank to make sure she hasn't got any illness ;] thank you very much for the information and being supportive


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Jinyuu said:


> Thank you very much, Do you know were i can get Epsom salt? I'll get all of that stuff for the hospital tank so i don't make the same mistake where i didn't have anything, including the hospital tank. I'll be getting another female for Xiang and she'll be put into the hospital tank to make sure she hasn't got any illness ;] thank you very much for the information and being supportive


You can get Epsom Salts at any pharmacy and at some grocery stores. I bought a bag at Wal-Mart a couple weeks ago on sale for 88 cents...but not for my fish, for me. I'm on my feet a lot and when they swell, I soak them in super hot water with Epsom Salts to reduce the fluid build-up. It works great. And when I hurt from head to toe I'll put a couple cups in a hot bath and soak for an hour or so...it relieves stiffness and tension. I worked at a clinic for several years where Epsom Salt soaks were often prescribed for closed sports injuries that had a lot of swelling. For a fish...I'd be comfortable using as much as 2 heaping tablespoons per 10 gallons of water. That said, before using it I'd encourage you to do some official research on the recommended doseage for goldfish.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

I need more help. xiang is now getting what fan had. is it a parasite?


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

do whats goby said to do with the salt thing.


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

What size tank is this in, and what all do you have in there? Is it just Xiang? How often do you do water changes, and how big are those changes? This feels too long between when you lost Fan and this guy getting sick for it to be the same thing unless it's being caused by the environment and/or genetics somehow...

I agree, for now, go with the salts.


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## WaterPanda (May 23, 2012)

Hey if you have an aquatics pet store in your town i would say call them and try to talk to some one there that is more or less an expert they might have seen it before with their gold fish. something that you can do is use the hospital tank as a temporary stay while you completely clean and recycle the other tank. if it is a parasite that might be a good way to go. then you can get rid of any unwanted animals in your tank while still being able tot treat your sick fish. and when you set up the "new" tank do not use any water from the hospital tank or the old water. this will help insure that no re-contamination will happen also try giving him cooked frozen peas with the hulls removed, you may have to hold it to his mouth so he can eat but try that.see if it helps while still doing the salts treatment


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I notice no one picked up on the fish lice or gill louse idea I floated from the picture. The insect-like thing you photographed seems thin for a fish louse, but I only have experience of Amazonian species. I don't think it's a dragon fly larvae at that size although again, we live in different parts of the world and the fauna is different. You may have local variants of fish or gill lice that will weaken, or if in the gills, sometimes kill a fish. I would do some internet research and see how it looks.


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## 19119 (Mar 26, 2012)

Gah, Xiang died ): he died from the same thing as Fan, I have no clue what starts it! i tried a salt bath but nothing happened! he has the same sytoms as her. they go through stages and it happends really quickly other 3-4 days!

1) They get ripped fins.
2) Black starts to form around the fins
3) A lump appears on their right side.
4) The fish either floats at the top or bottom.
5) The lump gets bigger and the fish bends.
6) The fish is unable to swim.
7) The fins rot into thin strips
8) They get dropsy
9) they die.

I've tried anti-biotics, I've put Copper into the tank, i've gave the fishes salt baths. Nothing gets rid of it!! That's two fish it's happened too both are goldfish. I have one goldfish left.

I've check the water and apparently it's fine, Ph and everything is at the right levels! the tank is cytal clear, I do a water change every week!
one thing i notice about the fish is they can't poo, but i fast the fish 3 times a week! I don't understand what is causing this!


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## luananeko (Aug 27, 2010)

Jinyuu said:


> Gah, Xiang died ): he died from the same thing as Fan, I have no clue what starts it! i tried a salt bath but nothing happened! he has the same sytoms as her. they go through stages and it happends really quickly other 3-4 days!
> 
> 1) They get ripped fins.
> 2) Black starts to form around the fins
> ...


Again... What size tank is this, what's in it, and what water change schedule is it on? Goldfish need a lot more space than folks realize. If it was 3 goldfish in anything less than a 30 gallon tank I'd wager that was contributing to whatever it was. The bump sounds like something was going wrong with their insides, which is what happens when fish are kept in tanks too small for them... Navigator could be on to something with the louse idea too, though the deaths were farther apart than I'd expect for a parasite issue.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I got curious and looked the symptoms up. The second site googled with 'goldfish anatomy' gave me a description of viral septicemia, known as goldfish disease. I don't keep goldies, so I have no real familiarity with their diseases, but this sounds extremely likely as a cause. 
The black around the fins is usually a sign of internal bleeding, which is what got me thinking. It's unfortunately very consistent with what Jinyuu describes as the progression of the disease - unfortunate because it is an untreatable and extremely aggressive virus.
I'd still like to know what those bugs are, but look up viral septicemia in goldfish, and you may have your problem identified.


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