# Their too young for this dammit!!!



## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I found an unnerving discovery in my fry tank a little while ago..... new fry!!!!! Now, here are my problems:

1. The fry that had these new fry are not yet full grown (yes I do have to work on figuring out a way to separate them sooner from now on but when they are so small it's hard to tell the difference). So, my first concern in for the health of the momma fry. Is the fact that they had babies before they were full grown going to damage their health?

2. What about the health and well being of the new fry? As you can imagine, they are smaller then their parents were when they were born so I'm worried about their development. Do you think they will be okay or hat can I expect from them (I think they are most likely guppys).

3. Next, I'm trying to think what I should do with the parent fry. I'm thinking of putting the bigger ones in the 55gal tank but I don't want them to get eaten. In the big tank are: glass catfish,platys, swordtails, red eye tetra, phantom black tetra, and angels. If I put them in the big tank who would be likely to chase after them? 

It's hard to estimate the size of them. The guppys are just getting their tail colors if that helps. If need be I can figure out something to measure them.....I think. They are less then full grown but look like mini adults. Correct shape and color and stuff like that. All of the Mickey Mouse Platys don't have the markings yet. The other Platys have all their coloring and I can't see any difference yet in the males and the female Swordtails.


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## Martini2108 (Jul 23, 2010)

will say that putting them in ur 55G would not be a good idea unless you have an abundance of hiding places. the catfish will proly eat them, The angel most def will, the tertras are kinda a 50/50. As for their health I'm really not sure about the "mama" I believe she should be fine. The babies I really can't say much any fry I've had stay in whatever thank they are born in


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Have the same issue with my mahachais.They are three months old,and not fully grown,and are spawning away.I have no advice for ya except to try your best to pull the males from the females.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I don't like to see females breed before six months of age. If you ever see a really old female guppy you'll see they get all bent looking, their spines kind of curve on them. I think a lot of their nutrients go to the babies and the less time they spend eating and the more time they spend pregnant the harder it is on them and the shorter their lives. That's why I always divide the girls from the boys as soon as i can see a gravid spot. Plus even after the populations are split, I watch in the female tank for gonopodiums, because sometimes you'll get a male with a black pigment spot that looks like a gravid spot, and when they're so tiny it is hard to tell pigment from something else, but if you catch them just as their fin is changing you can usually stop things before they get started, y'know?

With regard to returning them to the community tank, most of the fish on your list will eat anything that can fit into their mouths, so once your fry are big enough to not fit anymore, they'll be fine. Another advantage to splitting up the genders is they grow faster, what with not getting pregnant and all. You might try feeding the fry tank twice a day to help them get bigger faster, since this will help you get them into the big tank faster.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have Platies that have done the same thing...had babies before they are completely grown. I haven't experienced this problem with Guppies because I have yet to have a male born - that I can tell anyway. One or two might be.....hard to tell still. I keep my Platies and Guppies together...they keep my young thinned out a little. Right now I have 2 males and over 20 female Guppies.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

@JR Really? No males? How old are the offspring? Gonopodiums & color don't develop for weeks, so you might get some yet if they're still youngish. Wow. What're the odds?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

In bettas,i know its not unheard of to have a spawn full of either all males or all females,and its been proven,a breeding female,will change sex to a male and become a great father...Not sure if iotll happen with livebearers though.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

chris oe said:


> @JR Really? No males? How old are the offspring? Gonopodiums & color don't develop for weeks, so you might get some yet if they're still youngish. Wow. What're the odds?


Well, despite me having Guppies for most of the last 8 months I haven't had that many offspring that have made it until about 2-3 months ago. Or more correctly the adults have been affected by parasites usually. I think that is mostly under control with a few exceptions and have about 20 younglings that are 1-3 months old. I only have 2 producing adult females. The rest (about 4) appear healthy, just not producing. I only have 2 adult males. Anyway, most I can already tell what sex they are. Only 2 remain unknown. The other have the orange spotted tail, or red, or grey body/yellow tail. Normal colors for females.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

@JR the one parasite I know that is selective (among guppies anyway) by sex is the callamanus worm, mostly because guppies are little enough the callamanus ruptures the males and kills them, where the females can expand (nature of the female) and survive much longer. I hate those bstrd worms. They persist in empty tanks because they have a secondary host - daphnia - and most tanks have daphnia even if they don't know they do. So you can lose all the fish in the tank and still have the dmd worms. I need to find out what I can use to kill the daphnia in a tank at the same time as I'm treating for the worms. (sound of teeth grinding in frustration).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

There is a med called d-louse, I think. Claims to kill all invertabrae. Might work.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Here is my solution: I sold my Oscar . So, I'm going to move all my full grown male and non livebearing fish to Oscars former tank and move the fry to the 55gal tank that is currently the community tank. Except the full grown female live bearers-they will go in my first planted tank and the second generation fry that appeared a few days ago will stay in the second planted tank. That way each tank has fish in it to ensure that at least some bacteria will still grow in the tank with out the addition of further ammonia sources and the little fry will have the tank to themselves to give them the best chance of survival. Oh, the first generation female fry are going to stay in that tank too-just to ensure if they have more then I will know about it. That's how it will stay for now anyway, since one of my 55's will soon be becoming an angel sanctuary but that's a little ways away yet. 

Now, so, I can expect that in the long run the guppys that are giving birth now will probably not live long lives? Is that right? That sucks!!! Any other complications for those females? What can I expect from the new fry? Will they be the same size and live long lives? (provided I can get them separated before they mate)


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Just because they had a bad start doesn't mean they're done for. Feed them well, make sure there's good calcium levels in the water, in short, give them the best growing conditions you can, and you can offset a lot of the deficit they're starting with. Guppies store sperm, so they may well have additional drops, but so long as they're getting what they need in the way of food & space there's no reason they can't have healthy lives.


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