# Sticky  The use of Melafix, Pimafix, Betafix with Labyrinth organ fishes...DON'T!



## Chickadee

The advantages of the medications of Melafix, Pimafix, and Betafix are numerous and almost magical. They do a fantastic job of healing fins and tears and are nearly irreplacable in the aquarist's pharmacy, BUT I have to ask you to reconsider their use in the area of one family of fish. I have known that in the family of fish that have Labyrinth organs and have the need to go to the surface to breathe that these medications will cause deaths in a wild and unpredicable manner. It destroys the ability for the Labyrinth organ to function and allow the fish to breathe air as it needs to and they die horribly.

While I am not saying do not use these medications and would never say that no fish should have the benefit of the good that they do, I am simply advising that the harm they do the fish with Labyrinth organs is more than enough to warrant asking you not to use it in tanks containing any of these fish. There are other medications that may take a while longer and more patience to use to treat the problems of these fish but will not take their lives. That is all I am saying. I do speak from personal experience and do know of other owners of bettas and gouramis in particular who lost fish by using these meds in their tanks trying to help them and killing them in the attempt. The solution to their deaths was brought to my attention when I was moderating at another forum and a moderator from a third forum brought it to our attention when she heard of the deaths that were occurring unexplained on our forum and she had found this problem dealing with her own fish. So this is a problem that has cropped up in the cases of many other owners. Please do take this seriously. As I said I am not slamming the medications. They work wonders but not on Labyrinth organ fishes.

A partial listing of the Anabantids (Labyrinth organ fish) are as follows:

Perch
Combtail
Bettas of all types
Gouramis of all types
Ctenopoma of all types
Paradisefish

and while they are not technically Labyrinth organ fish the same effect seems to be present for some reason on the following:

Pencilfish

Thank you for your attention.

Rose


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## Guest

Oops, maybe thats why clifford jumped out, I had been treating with melafix from work( concentrated version) and a few days after that started the top was open and he got out and tried to live the human life.


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## Chickadee

It is sad but they do need to breathe air and it is the one type of fish that can actually drown if they cannot get to a surface that is free of a slick or any hinderances of any type. So many owners are not aware of this thinking that clean water and food are all any fish needs. But there are fish who can drown and the Anabantoids are the family of those who can. 

This is another reason that I have always recommended giving bettas a tall plant or some really tall thing to sleep in as it saves them from all the swimming at night when the lights are off to get to the surface to breathe. I think it is a wonderful gift for a sleepy little buddy. A lot of people including my family think this is sappy, but how do they like having to get up at night and having their sleep disturbed all the time? Not much!

Rose


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## MediaHound

Great info Rose, thanks!


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## Chickadee

I had airstones in the tanks but it did not keep my fish alive and those others that lost fish were not inexperienced fishkeepers either. One of them was quite an expert with the care and attendance of bettas and she lost more fish than any of us over this. I do not distrust the product but over several uses I found that it caused a problem and would not want to risk someone else's fish by not informing them of the problem.

Thank you for the comment though.

Rose


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## Chickadee

Since I have a 27 year career as a nurse I doubt that dosing was an issue. I am used to figuring dosages for complicated tanks. No the meds were given repeatedly to these fish some of them died with the first dose with my friend and some died after repeated doses so it does appear to have a cumulative affect on the fish. You cannot depend on the fact that because it did not hurt the fish the first time that it will not. Unfortunately my loved Marty, a special betta that I will not ever have the likes of again, was the first that I lost this way and did not understand at the time what had done it. But he had done as your fish had, recovered from a case of fin problems with no difficulty with the help of Melafix and then when I needed to use it the second time it took him.

Rose


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## JIM

*Thats why we made Rose the Boss of the Betta section, and the ONLY Moderator there. All other Staff are considered Guests in that section. *





* k:*


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## IMIGHT

This is an old thread but i had to add my .02. I have a 27" Giant Gourami, i've had this guy since he was a fry and used to feed him freash fruits and veggies. Some of the veggies got hid under the drift wood and started to mold. I didnt see it and the mold got onto the skin of my GG. He was covered with it and almost died. If it wasnt for the pimafix he would have died as a matter of fact it killed my blue channel cat due to a lack of scales to help protect it. 
Recently he was over fed while i was on vacation all the extra food in the bottom of the tank shot my params through the roof. He turned a brownish color and didnt move, just layed at the bottom of the tank. After a week of doseing with melafix and emergency water changes hes back to his old self. Although i havent had much experience with medicating my fish these products havent had any ill affects on my Giant Gourami and i will continue to use them when needed for all species of fish including those with labrinth organs. I'm not disputing what Rose posted just i have never heard or seen any ill affects from these products in labrinth fishes.

DION


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## Chickadee

As I have said earlier, it is not something that happens the first or second time in all fish but does have a cumulative effect on these fish. Just because it did not kill your fish does not mean it did not weaken its Labyrinth organ and that it will not cause a problem at some point. Some fish die with the first use and others later on, but it has been shown to cause deaths in these fish and when you have a fish that you love there is no way of knowing if you are going to be one of the lucky ones who will get by with using it "just this one time" or not and I felt that I had to post the warning for those of the ones who risked losing the fish on the first or second attempt or at all.

To those who choose to continue its use, it is your choice totally and like I said they are miracle meds for other fish but I truly do recommend holding their use in the case of the Labyrinth organ fish as there are other meds that will work without causing the damage to the organ that helps to keep these fish healthy and alive. Like I have always said, it is totally up to you and what you choose but the information is here for your use.

Rose


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## IMIGHT

A very good point Rose and has prompted me to research these products in depth, starting with the active ingredient in Melafix (Melaleuca Ca#8008-98-8). Im glad for the sake of all hobbiest that you posted this thread/warning it was truely an eye opener.

Thank you Rose.

Dion


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## JIM

*Thanks for that conversation, i think this an item, that deserves being revived on occasion, even with differing opinions. And may save someone from accidently harming their fish.*


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## orion

why not sticky it or as i mentioned earlier somewhere else maybe make a forum that is an archive of all the valuable info that goes on in here like a fresh and salt archive maybe just copy the thread in there and close it then just leave the one out here open with a link in the archived portion so that if anyone has any questions they can come back to the original thread and gravedig a lil 

thats generally what i have always done in the forums i have ran and it worked pretty good

just my


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## Chickadee

It is stickied. I did it when I first posted it but thanks for the suggestion.

Rose


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## orion

yw


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## Anna Robinson

I do consultancy work for Mars Fishcare (owners of API, makers of Melafix and Pimafix) and have direct knowledge of some of the background behind these products. I don't believe these medications cause problems with labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes. 

To clear up a couple of minor points first: 



whitedevil said:


> I had been treating with melafix from work( concentrated version)


There is not actually such a thing as a concentrated Melafix treatment in freshwater. When used according to directions they are all the same concentration in the tank water. Some are more or less concentrated in the bottle to make dosing easier. 



Chickadee said:


> they do need to breathe air and it is the one type of fish that can actually drown if they cannot get to a surface that is free of a slick


Melafix/Pimafix do not cause a slick at the surface. If you use these treatments you can see that they don't (although they can cause some foaming). They are specially processed with emulsifiers so that they mix with the aquarium water. They also do not lower oxygen levels in the water; this was investigated during development using oxygen probes. (Although I can't clearly understand why people feel a slick would damage the labyrinth organ anyway, seeing as the fish breathes the air above the tank, and not the actual water). 

Mars Fishcare (API) spent years developing and testing Melafix and Pimafix (Melafix alone spent 6-7 years being tested and refined). During that time they were extensively tested on labyrinth fishes (Bettas and multiple species of gourami) and also on pencilfishes. They were tested in bare-bottom tanks and 'traditional' established tanks, on wild fish and aquarium strains, and in the case of the pencilfishes at least, pencilfish hobbyists were recruited to help test. Samples of the medication were sent out to them to add to their own tanks with their pencilfishes, just in case there was some unknown factor that was different about the testing facilities at API compared to hobbyists' tanks at home. None of these tests showed any problems with Melafix or Pimafix for either labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes. 

When a fish is being treated with a medication, it is because it is unwell in some way (obviously). Therefore, if a fish dies while being treated with Melafix/Pimafix, it is likely to be the original illness that caused the death, rather than the medication. This can even apply if other fishes, which did not appear to be sick and are not the targets of the medication, die during treatment – whatever caused the problem in the first place will have potentially affected and damaged all the fishes in the tank. (Particularly as most problems are caused by poor water quality, which can occur some time before symptoms are noticed). Fishes can also die for no apparent reason, as we are all aware. If this happens after a medication has been added to the tank the owner naturally assumes the medication was to blame, when if it hadn't been added, the death would have been written off as "one of those things". 


Chickadee said:


> Some fish die with the first use and others later on


It's clear here for example that Chickadee blames the Melafix no matter when the fish dies. (Sorry, Chickadee, not getting at you personally!). Although this is understandable, it is not scientific. 

I think it is important to point out that there is no evidence that Melafix or Pimafix harm either labyrinth fishes or pencilfishes other than these reports circulating on the internet. Mars Fishcare (API) on the other hand, have lots of good evidence that indicates that they don't. It is also important to point out that huge numbers of hobbyists use these products around the globe, so any genuine problems would most likely show up very quickly and be well-known.


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## Chickadee

While I respect your knowledge and understand the need to protect the reputation of the products, I must respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions. I am neither an alarmist nor do I bear any ill will to your products. They have and I am sure will continue to provide miracle cures for a lot of fish, but this is not based on MY own experiences alone nor on the experiences of fish hobbyists on one forum alone. It is based on the experiences of a lot of fish hobbyists who started seeing the problems and got together and discussed the similarities of the problems they were having. If the problems the fish were experiencing prior to the use of the product were even similar I could perhaps agree with you but the only similarity seemed to be the use of the products and the type of deaths we were seeing. (convulsions, panic, and other symptoms shared by the fish) The problems they were being treated for would not have caused this reaction in them.

So while some may and certainly have always had the option of using these products on the fish and I believe I made this clear, I will continue to err on the side of caution and not do so.

It does remain every fish hobbyists right and priviledge to do as they will but I consider it my responsibility to put forth my experiences as they happened and to bring out the things that I have learned through dealing with others who have had similar or even worse experiences. I could not in all good conscience do otherwise.

I have said and will continue to tell anyone who asks that Melafix and Pimafix are wonderful medications for the right situation. I just do not happen to believe that situation is with Labyrinth organ fishes.

Rose


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## phys

I have used melafix in two of my tanks so far and my experience was it is not for use with a blue gourami. It had no prior illness to treatment for a new fish but became quite ill until i did a 50% water change and after 2 days, it was fine again. I have also used it on a red tetra and it is doing quite well now after an instance of fin rot. FYI...


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## sivakv

So what is the alternative to use for labyrinth fish ?i have lost almost half my fishes and they typically seem to go in pairs. I did try different medicines and when the infection appears on the fish, it is as good as gone. Having said that, the 3-4 in gorami i had, appeared to have fought the very rapidly spreading scars on its body, before it succumbed. I was using melafix. This guy was the lone survivor of inadvertent chlorine contamination in water, feel pretty sad to lose him.


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## Subaru4wd

I just thought I would post and let it be known...

I was forced to use Melafix to heal my Blue Gourami (even after reading this thread a few weeks prior). I was worried as I have 2 other gourami in the tank, but I followed directions as it showed on the label and a week later none of my gourami show signs of stress, illness or weakness. My blue gourami had two bad open wounds, both have healed and it doesnt look like she was ever effected by it (the wounds or the medication).

The label also does not say anything about labyrinth organed fish and has a statement that says it is proven safe for ALL freshwater fish.

Not to shoot down this "rose" fella, but if you have a sick or ill gourami do not fear this product.


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## majerah1

I have used it on one of my bettas and a gourami I had once,and both died.They stayed near the top,gasping for air.The color of the fishes went very pale and the fins melted off.Ill never use it again.i use the betta fix on the betta and melafix on the gourami.For both fish to be effected the same way,when they were both treated at different times,in different tanks with these meds,that tells me something is not right.


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## Narny105

I bought this killer from a pet store a few days ago, used it then did some reading on it. Added my carbon back in and did a 50% water change. They should really write that kind of stuff on the bottle including the ingredients, luckily I got it out and added some aquarium salt to help his gills. Battling fin rot at the moment  hopefully the medicine I have will work


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## shadesofviolet

Hmmm.... Used this product a couple times a while back with a small community tank... The first time was shortly before my betta died. The 2nd time was shortly before my dwarf gourami died... both times i was treating the tank for problems that the betta/gourami didnt have (and i didnt have a hospital tank at the time)... There could have been other factors at play here... I dont think the betta liked the idea of a community tank, and my gourami may have gotten scared by my vacuum and ran into a wall causing internal injury... maybe a coincidence that they both died no more than a week after medicating... Will talk to LFS and see if they've heard of anything like this


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## Future Marine Biologist

That is wierd I used it for my betta and it didn't effect him (yes he did unfourtanatly die but a year after I first used melafix with him.) None the less the next time I get fish like this I vow not to use melafix (and all those other medecations)


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## Narny105

Yes, Melafix, pimafix and bettafix all work wonders. The problem is that they are oil based medications so they coat the labryinth organ as well as the gills. They do seem to have effects on all fish when used prolonginly as they are not intended for use every time a tear appears.


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## lilmamabear

I'm unsure if this has already been mentioned but its just diluted tea tree oil. If you think about it, breathing an oil type substance into your lungs would be about the same as a labyrinth fish breathing it into theirs, it would't end pretty and all it would do is coat your breathing organ and stop the oxygen fron truly soaking into the cells and going where it should. Sorry just getting the nerdy know it all opinion out there lol


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## lilmamabear

And Narny I don't mean to steal your oil response, I was just getting more into it lol


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## Narny105

lilmamabear said:


> And Narny I don't mean to steal your oil response, I was just getting more into it lol


No worries  It is always good to add on information to posts like mine that are brief 

I have looked into these products and read many articles on them, and to be honest, there is just not enough evidence based on these three medications suggesting that they are potentially lethal medications.

Many people have used at full dose with bettas and other labyrinth breathing fish with fish dying similarly, while others have had no issues. Keep in mind that these products are all refined oils (normal oil would float ) which allows them to be dilute and mix with water particles freely. 

When used at 1/5 the dose (the amount it should be used on bettas), people have had no issues whatsoever with melafix. I do not encourage continual use or prolonged use, but it is still a great natural medication for encouraging cells for fin regrowth.

Melafix diluted down to 1/5 the dose is essentially the same diluent as bettafix, which is just a watered down version of melafix. 

It has been scientifically proven that oils do pose a threat at coating the labyrinth organ, however it cannot be said for refined oils, meaning that it SHOULD be used with caution, and at a reduced dose for labyrinth breathing fish, particularly bettas.

Many betta breeders swear by melafix and bettafix as outstanding in encouraging fin regrowth, and this is at the reduced dosage for melafix. 

I prefer melafix over aquarium salt as a medication as many bettas seem to be very sensitive and cannot regulate salinity in their bodies correctly, often resulting in more fin loss and stress. 

I have successfully used aquarium salt at 0.1% on many bettas (male and female) for treating fin rot, and it is fantastic at doing so, but I also currently have one male betta who after previously using salt as fin rot medication and as a fin regrowth medication, cannot handle it any more and looses finnage when in a salt solution even at a reduced dosage of 0.05%.

I guess any medication, be it salt, melafix, pimafix, aquari cycline, etc, has their pros and cons, and it really just needs to be tackled with caution as all medications pose the threat of mortality. Research needs to be done before using medications, and people cannot just rely on one source. Although this article is great, and I don't mean to be proving or disproving anything, it is just not very reliable to go off home owners experience with products as you will find the same result with other medications.

In my previous posts on this forum (when I first joined I think, this is my first time back in a while ) I had done no research or readings into these products, so I have had a change of opinion on them!


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## gypsydancer

I used melafix on a male betta who was "destroyed " by a female during breeding. He lived for two years after that. His fins grew back as good as new. Namaste, Gypsy


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## navigator black

I used nothing but water changes on a Hemichromis that has lost its tail down to the stump in a breeding fight, as well as on a ripped up breeding betta. Both recovered and lived long lives with nice fins.
We can't really evaluate these meds without seeing the studies and results the poster from the company refers to. I don't think Melafix or Pimafix does any appreciable harm to Labyrinth fishes, but when I have researched the active ingredient (proven to work in extremely high concentrations) and then look at the very low concentrations in the product, I'm extremely skeptical about whether does anything other than make us feel we're doing something.
When aquarium antibiotics were banned here without a veterinary prescription, I was sure we would lose fish by the bucket. Losses remained about the same or even declined when we could no longer shotgun inappropriate meds at bacteria we couldn't properly diagnose. We can very effectively treat parasites like Ich, velvet, tapeworms, nematode worms etc, but internal medecine with fish seems more often a question of whether the fish has the proper environment and the strength to recover on its own.


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## zero

i cant remember where but im sure i read alao vera shouldnt be used with Labyrinth fishes, is this correct?


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## Richbinduga

i was this close to using it for my leopard bushfish but i was told not to just in time in one of my threads. thankgod


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## kicksilver

My dwarf gourami has been acting real sluggish and sickly the last few days, and I assumed it was just the infection he had taking it's tole, now I know it's actually the medicine! What can I do to save this little guy's life? Is changing the water to remove the medication going to be enough? I have been dosing Melafix each morning for about 4 days now, and changing 30% of the water every night from his 55 Gallon Tank (my filter isn't working and I'm waiting for delivery of a new one.).


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## coralbandit

kicksilver said:


> My dwarf gourami has been acting real sluggish and sickly the last few days, and I assumed it was just the infection he had taking it's tole, now I know it's actually the medicine! What can I do to save this little guy's life? Is changing the water to remove the medication going to be enough? I have been dosing Melafix each morning for about 4 days now, and changing 30% of the water every night from his 55 Gallon Tank (my filter isn't working and I'm waiting for delivery of a new one.).


I would change water daily till you have done double the volume of tank.If you have an air pump I would install it as oxygen comes from surface movement and between the "fixes" and your filter not working you need to disturb the surface.If you see the oily sheen on surface you can lay newspaper on the surface and pull it up from one end.This is an old school way to clean surface.
Good luck.


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## majerah1

Yes do lots of water changes. It should help him with not only removing the medicine but also help him heal a little faster. Good luck with the guy and I hope he gets to feeling better soon. Is that him in your avatar?


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## kicksilver

I came home from work to find him vertical with labored breathing. He's sinking slowly every now and then and then feebly attempting to swim back up to the surface. I changed a lot of the water, stole a 30 gallon filter off another of my tanks, installed an old air pump that I don't use any more, and did a big water change. His condition isn't improving, in fact it's getting worse. I switched off his light for the night but I keep going out there to look at him every 15 minutes or so to make sure he's still alive.

It's not him in my avatar, but I tried to find a picture that closely resembled him. He's a really nice looking fish, and he has a great personality, always shooting water at me when he gets hungry, and happily building elaborate nests among the water lettuce. I hope he pulls through, but my hopes aren't too high at this point.

Also, he had some of the surface film caught in his nostril, so I gently removed it with tweezers (not an easy task). It was completely clogging up the passageway, and was wedged in pretty tight.

Update: I found him dead at the bottom this morning. I really can't believe that both the companion manager, and the aquatics specialist at Petco recommended that I use this stuff on him. Well his infection cleared up before he died anyways a lot of good that did him.


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## fishboy

Are scaleless fish ok?


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## Angelcliff

You did make a point that I liked I has to med my tank and wat your saying is so true that happen to my fish they were at the top breathing heavy taking deep breaths but it did break down some of my fish that were fine so the use of it is good but it can cause wat your saying and I saw it happen in my tank


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## dhoch

What medication would I use on Cory's if the occasion arises?


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## Tolak

Depends on the occasion.


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## Gamegurl

I would add a warning here that when I had an injured Danio and treated with Melafix it caused severe breathing distress in my Nerite Snails. SO much so that I replaced nearly 75% of the water over two days.
Cheers
GG


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