# fish swimming upright and dying...plz help.



## dime1aotk (Oct 27, 2012)

i have a school of 5 tiger barbs but one has recently started swimming looking up at the top of the tank, and after coming home from errands today i found him lying on the bottom, not dead but i took him out and he is lying in on the bottom of 2 gal and i think he will die soon..... 

is this due to bad ph, i do not have a test kit but am going to go get one or what else could the problem be, my tank is a 80 gal, with 1 angel, 1 denison barb, 1 acei cichlid, 1 rubber lipped pleco, 1 very small bichir, and of course the other 4 tiger barbs, they all get along thus far and the water temp is always at least 74 to 78, plz give any advice i dont want to lose any of the fish!!!!


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## tbub1221 (Nov 1, 2012)

wow what a cool mix of friendy you got there i really like the Bichir but i cant have one because he will nibble on my endler or my scorpion fancy i think. i also think he might eat a little koli loach iv got that he could suck down like spaghetti. ok enough of my randome rambling , i would start with the ph , if you like to watch your chem lvls id get a master kit cause its cheaper but if u arent watching ammonia id probably get atleast an ammonia test kit and a ph kit but strips can be a little off sometimes , not to mention they cost a whole lot compared to a droper test the kit i got first was about 10-12 $ and u can do like 250 test with it but for a few more bucks than getting a ph and ammonia test kit you can get master kit and watch also nitrates etc , so what to do is up to you but when you go to the pet shop take water with you , let them test it and that way if you need neutral ph or ph up or ammonia neutralizer you can get it.. i hope it all comes together for you take care and have a great day.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Nice size tank, can you answer a few questions for us.

How long has the tank been running?
How long has the fish been in the tank?
Can you give us actual numbers for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? Those are important to know.
What is your water change schedule? How often and how much?

Don't worry about your ph its fine as long as the fish are acclimated to it properly. Don't use chemicals to raise or lower ph as if not done properly can harm your fish even more.
Also sounds like you might need to add another heater to make your temp more stable. It shouldn't flucuate that much.

Your dennison barb, needs company of its own kind. Will make for a happier fish. The acei seems kind of out of place in the tank. Its from africa where the angel is from s. america. They will have different needs from each other. Don't give him much protein as they are suseptable to malawi bloat.


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## jshiloh13 (Dec 12, 2010)

I wouldn't mess with your ph, Most fish can adapt to ph levels, but fluctuating ph can be dangerous for your fish.


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## tbub1221 (Nov 1, 2012)

wow your both telling this person to ignore the ph lvl that rather immature sounding to me if you look at acceptable ph ranges for the fish they have there are overlapping margins but none the less to say that they will merely adapt to a ph is a bit off key dont you think ? especially hearing you talk about the fishes individual needs by the region they come from, granted i obviously know a heck of a lot less than most being relatively new to this again now but i know some fish have a wide range like the catfish for instance. but i also know the the angel calls for ;ike 6.5-6.8 th be healthy so adaptation or not if the ph is at 7.4 or higher , which is possible easily then that fish cant be as healthy as you would hope for. i didnt mean to run out in any means , but i thik its irresponsible to say to ignore it , Jshilo is corect though fluctuation to rapidly or to oftin is truly the killer among ph issues in my opinion, i do not recomend a ph up or ph down , i use a neutralizer that regardless of if its high or low it over the coarse of several days slowely balances it all at 7.0 its cald neutral regulator by sea chem. it was 5.99 at my lfs. directions calls for 1/4 tea spoon for each 3-5 gallons so me being causious to not use to much foregn chems or junk in my water i do each 5 gals so i do 1 and 1/2 tsp and it take atleast 5-7 days to bring it back but i have also never seen my own over 7.2 and only use this once a month . if you can get a nitrate and nitrite count that would be helpful which is why i say take water with to petco or where ever you go to buy ur chems thel usually alwayse try and help out , if it apears to be anything other than ph it is all easy fixes , i also use a product cald prime , its cheap and sole every where im sure you know it or have seen it. it it awesome for slime coats but it removes chlorine, cloramine , and ammonia. also it detoxafies nitrils and nitrites .. it is also made by sea chem. one capfull for each 50 us gallons or use directions for smaller dosing but i use it to condition my water in a bucket when i vaccuum and water swap so wile im vaccuuming its already conditioning in clean water. maybe give it a shot if you never have, but this is only if its needed , i dont mean it will just fix any issue , just that its a very mile low chem incredible working all in one that is safe to use at water changes weekly. adn again i hope u figure it out. but remember , if there is no chem or temp issue then it very well could have been just the fish , but without all the info i cannot say all to much more about the subject.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

tbub1221 said:


> wow your both telling this person to ignore the ph lvl that rather immature sounding to me if you look at acceptable ph ranges for the fish they have there are overlapping margins but none the less to say that they will merely adapt to a ph is a bit off key dont you think ? especially hearing you talk about the fishes individual needs by the region they come from, granted i obviously know a heck of a lot less than most being relatively new to this again now but i know some fish have a wide range like the catfish for instance. but i also know the the angel calls for ;ike 6.5-6.8 th be healthy so adaptation or not if the ph is at 7.4 or higher , which is possible easily then that fish cant be as healthy as you would hope for. i didnt mean to run out in any means , but i thik its irresponsible to say to ignore it , Jshilo is corect though fluctuation to rapidly or to oftin is truly the killer among ph issues in my opinion, i do not recomend a ph up or ph down , i use a neutralizer that regardless of if its high or low it over the coarse of several days slowely balances it all at 7.0 its cald neutral regulator by sea chem. it was 5.99 at my lfs. directions calls for 1/4 tea spoon for each 3-5 gallons so me being causious to not use to much foregn chems or junk in my water i do each 5 gals so i do 1 and 1/2 tsp and it take atleast 5-7 days to bring it back but i have also never seen my own over 7.2 and only use this once a month . if you can get a nitrate and nitrite count that would be helpful which is why i say take water with to petco or where ever you go to buy ur chems thel usually alwayse try and help out , if it apears to be anything other than ph it is all easy fixes , i also use a product cald prime , its cheap and sole every where im sure you know it or have seen it. it it awesome for slime coats but it removes chlorine, cloramine , and ammonia. also it detoxafies nitrils and nitrites .. it is also made by sea chem. one capfull for each 50 us gallons or use directions for smaller dosing but i use it to condition my water in a bucket when i vaccuum and water swap so wile im vaccuuming its already conditioning in clean water. maybe give it a shot if you never have, but this is only if its needed , i dont mean it will just fix any issue , just that its a very mile low chem incredible working all in one that is safe to use at water changes weekly. adn again i hope u figure it out. but remember , if there is no chem or temp issue then it very well could have been just the fish , but without all the info i cannot say all to much more about the subject.


I have been keeping fish for more than 30 years, I know that angels come from low ph in the amazon, but unless your buying wild fish any more they have become adapted to higher ph. When speaking of regions I was talking about the different dietary needs of the fish, most malawians are herbivore and can't tolerate a protien diet. It causes a disease called malawi bloat.

Most fish can adapt to any ph as long its not fluctuating. I have seen angels thrive in a ph of 8.9, but they won't breed.

When it comes to wild fish, I would never advise them for in experienced people because the the different needs and harder to keep alive. Most fish in the trade are mass produced in conditions less than desireable and most are produced in waters outside of their natural enviroment, unless you get them from a private breeder.

Most big box stores like petco and petsmart uses the test strips which are really unreliable, Its best to use a liquid test and do it on your own. I know I have tested it out. I have even taken some bottled water to be tested and was told it had high ammonia and high ph. Bottled water is neutral.

Oh and I also keep and breed angels at a ph of 7.4 and they do fine. I also have wild caught plecos that I keep at 6.5 (but they are wild caught)I don't use chemicals to lower my water but I do it naturally with aldercones, oak leaves and lots of wood.


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## dime1aotk (Oct 27, 2012)

@susan the tank has been running about two months with the fish in about 1 month, the tiger barbs and the cichlid in there about two weeks. sorry i dont have ammonia levels or anything yet, and i change the water about half way down once a month, the angel ive had for a year and have never had any issues, it was just that one tiger barb who has died but the other fish look fine, could he have been sick or somthing?? i did get him from petsmart so maybe i just wasnt sure, i have those stones in my filter to neutralize ammonia should those be changed every so often?


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## dime1aotk (Oct 27, 2012)

oh and i do plan on getting more denisons  its just i have not been able to find any where im at.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You need to get yourself a test kit. That way you would know what is going on with your water. Also start doing weekly water changes to get any toxins in the water down, Like ammonia, nitrite which needs to be zero and nitrates below 40.


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## jshiloh13 (Dec 12, 2010)

I dont know how much you know about the nitrogen cycle, but i would like to add that you want to see nitrates when you test for them, along with both ammonia and nitrites being zero. otherwise your tank is not cycled (just adding my two cents)


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## dime1aotk (Oct 27, 2012)

thx guys i really appreciate all the advice!!! im getting a test kit tomarro (i get paid) and ill do weekly changes and level checks


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