# Seriously cloudy/mossy tank



## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

I used to have gravel in my 30 gallon tank but I decided to change to 1" peat moss covered with 1.5" play sand (sloped from back to front) in a modified Beaslbob build. The peat is thoroughly covered by sand and some large rocks, yet once I filled up the tank the water became instantly so cloudly you can't see 2 inches through it. Peat moss is everywhere and gradually covering the surface in this disgusting, sloppy mess. I have 2 big filters running for about 1 hour now but so far I can't see a difference (besides cleaning filter cartridges almost continuously).

My question is will this clear up, and if so how fast? I have a striped raphael catfish and mystery snail sitting in a 5 gallon bucket right now with airstone and a marimo ball, but I don't know how long they will last. The catfish is stressed and will not eat.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

That's the tank, it looks like hell in there as you can see.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Did you add water slowly running over a dish. as it looks like the water flow has displaced some sand and allowed the peat to escape. 

Beaslbob methods I don't agree with so I can't help you there.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

I poured the water onto a large fake stone decoration but some got splashed around because I have a bad syphon and it shakes a lot. The sand is thick I don't see how that much could get displaced by stray water

And its a modified beaslbob build because i have air pumps filter and heater; the only thing i took from it was the plant and substrate setup.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Peat when it decomposes will sour in your tank messing with the water quality. If you want to use peat, best to use just a dusting of it. In that pic you can see where the peat has pushed up through the sand.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

So is the beaslbob method just bad? I won't know for me until I wait 2-3 days and see if water clears, but seems like some people say its the BEST and other people say its the WORST.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

what your def. of clear ? Peat moss is used to help create black water like tetras, and other acid lovers want. Tannic acid is and will be releases till exhausted from peat. Test your water. If it is within the parameters you want put your fish in.He don't care it is clear. He will care(die) if parameters are out of wack. Also , fill and go. Most set tanks up prior to fish.If youhad fish before wheres his filter? Hope things work out. peat moss is a pain .


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I dont see the substrate being much difficult than many other plant specific substrates when it comes to preparation. They all have their own difficulties. The whole purpose of the peat is to try and keep the water softness lower while trying to do no water changes. That effect will only last at most about a year, if that. So in the long run, nothing gained by doing that method if you plan to do normal maintenance. It holds no exceptional plant value or better to say that plant wise, there are many other better, less difficult, plant specific substrates out there.

He will simply say that with no filters his tanks would clear in 2 days and offer very little help for you.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Fiber peat is great in a tank, but if that was loose peat not thoroughly soaked and sunken before you put it in, you have a problem. That's not tannins in the water, that's mud.
Dry peat takes about three weeks to really settle when I use it for water treatment (nice, clear, tannin stained tea coloured water), and about 40% of the peat I put in a tub ends up in the garden, because the powder rises to the surface and is skimmed as I prepare it.
The peat is active for about 5 months, after which it does little other than decompose. It no longer softens the water or reduces the pH after that time, and it is already relatively ineffective by 3 months.
So I don't get using it as an addition to the substrate. Back in the older aquarium articles and books, it was touted as a long term wonder additive, but if you test hardness and pH consistently, after about three months, any benefits are only if you believe in magic. It does nothing that is measurable.

Personally, I would swear like a sailor, get out a gravel vac and spend a couple of hours cleaning up the mess. Or, my garden would get a gift of sandy peat and I'd restart from zero.

BTW - I jsut reread your post. The bob buiild is never presented with a list of fish that flourish in it. It's a one size fits all system, and it totally ignores the habits and needs of different species of fish. A striped rapael is one of the absolute worst fish for a bob build, as it is a constant digger. It sorts through the sand hunting, and in so doing, it is always going to be dumping out more and more peat mud. I'll leave it to others to decide on the wisdom of the dirt bottomed tank, but I would never suggest it for a fish that digs. Bob would probably ignore that issue and start talking about co2, because the nature of the fish seems secondary to the vision behind his set-up.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

Since last night the peat has stopped floating up and Ive skimmed all the big parts already so Im pretty sure the sand layer wasn't punctured. The tank is also getting less cloudy over time, and I think it's only cloudy because of sand getting kicked up. 

About the raphael cat digging, though, the sand layer is perhaps 1.5-2 inches thick; its a pretty good layer. Will he dig all the way through that?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

probably.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

By reputation, they are major earth movers. I've known people who found them annoying with plants because their excavations coated the leaves with fine dust all the time. 
Most serious diggers eventually expose the glass on the bottom, so he/she is going to be an issue with the dirt bottomed tank.

I think the basic technique/set-up is excellent for a calm, heavily planted tank. I would still do weekly water changes and run a filter to move water - doing otherwise isn't sensible with most of the fish we can get. People were doing that long before beaslbob's system was named, and it works. It's a good set up for small fish from weedy or swampy habitats, but there is no magic bullet for avoiding maintenance, water changes, and oxygen distribution in the tank.

I think the difference with the beaslbob build is the no water changes, minimal feeding, no fertilization or mineral replacement set-up. It's the presentation of the standard 1940s tank as a miracle way of avoiding maintence that sets it apart. The really old time aquarists I knew constantly worked on their tanks - that's part of the fun.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not mad when I change water or clean my filter pads ( or other mechanicals)that is the fun and the pride. Besides watching behavior, general water conditions and breeding , The CARE FOR is the fun ,commitment and pride. And ya. if when it all clears up, you may see glass(bottom).Listen to the many, not one. Do you have an outside garden? I like navs solution. Plants grow in almost anything , or at least a few other substrates than what you have chosen. Size of fish kept will make difference.Little livebearers ,egg layer(little still) would love your approach ,big fish or more active ones will scavage for food to no end.It's what they do.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

Well thanks for the help everyone  hopefully it clears up later today and catfish can go in tomorrow. If it does I'll post some pics. I'll have to monitor his excavations though.....


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## z1200 (Jan 26, 2012)

When I did my dirt tank I took an old, ugly coral background and used that to displace the water. I had to vacuum All the water and dirt out from a previously failed attempt. Then after I refilled with the old background it was as clear as a regular gravel tank.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Hopefully your system will clear up shortly.

We did have one poster some time back have similiar problems untill they followed the instructions better.

and I did have cloudy problems Untill I tried the layering.

What seems important is to add a layer, then add just enough water to fill that layer and no more with nothing being lifted up. then level and clean the tank and add the next layer.


Again important is to plant the plants and any decorations after the third layer is added, wet, and leveled. But before any additional water is added.

the fill the the tank with water poured over a dish (saucer).

You could also probably add all three layers then wet them all but I have never done that.

If you add the plants with the tank containing any signaficant water, you will stirr things up creating a mess.


But with my un circulated, un mechanical filtered tanks, the initial coudiness will clears up in a couple of days.

so hopefully your tank is about ready to become totally clear.*old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> If you add the plants with the tank containing any signaficant water, you will stirr things up creating a mess.


So this form of layering allows for no subsequent plant additions without making a mess?


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

Beaslbob I have no doubt the problem in my tank is my own doing, not your method. I wanted a sand bottom so I did not add pc select above sand, which probably allowed moss and sand escapage, and I did not think to use a dish for the sand. 

Anyway, the tank has since cleared up enough that i can see the entire thing, it just looks really misty kind of. Will probably add fish once the temp gets to 76 degrees or so.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Aeten said:


> Beaslbob I have no doubt the problem in my tank is my own doing, not your method. I wanted a sand bottom so I did not add pc select above sand, which probably allowed moss and sand escapage, and I did not think to use a dish for the sand.
> 
> Anyway, the tank has since cleared up enough that i can see the entire thing, it just looks really misty kind of. Will probably add fish once the temp gets to 76 degrees or so.


And thanks for providing another datum.

I do like the pc select but even aquarium gravel would work. More for looks then trapping the sand. I feel, with my limited experience, the sand trapping the peat moss is what is important. The peat really tries to float around until it get water logged and sinks. In tanks that I filled then planted I had lotsa twigs (logs? *old dude) floating at the surface for the first couple of months or so. As well has having a surface scum that went away after adding the fish fish which usually was a platty or guppy. Which can be surface skimmers attaching the surface scum. Both cleared up once things became fully water logged and sank.

Glad it is clearing up and hopefully it is starting to look surprising awesome.

my .02


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

Take note from peat-spawning killifish breeders; boil your your peat first. Boiling it causes the air bubbles in the peat particles to expand to the pont they are forced out of the peat and rise to the top as a hot foam. When all the peat sinks in the pot, it will then also sink in the tank. Just let it cool first.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

In my experience, it is important to keep the peat "in". It is going to rot - it is an organic material trapped under sand under water, and there will be gases released if it is diusturbed. It isn't inert.
There is no beaslbob method - that would be like me telling you to use a filter and calling it the "Nav-Method". It's kind of cheeky to name someone else's method after yourself - I tried these already old methods before Bob did, and dumped them as impractical. A little peat or soil under the sand/gravel with no filtration can give you decent plant growth for a couple of months for limited number of plant species, and will allow you to keep a very limited number of dull fish species. 
The heart of "Bob's method" is the subtle twist he puts on it - no water changing or filtration, combined with limiting yourself to Anacharis and the types of hardy fish used to cycle a tank. 

A well filtered, well maintained tank with a little peat in the substrate has nada to do with "his" method. It's an old method for starting plants first (fish as secondary concerns) type tanks.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> So this form of layering allows for no subsequent plant additions without making a mess?


No. Just the initial mess.

After that you can add plants and not result in extremely cloudy water and a bunch of floaties. Because the substrate is all wet.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

navigator black said:


> ...
> 
> 
> The heart of "Bob's method" is the subtle twist he puts on it - no water changing or filtration, combined with limiting yourself to Anacharis and the types of hardy fish used to cycle a tank.
> ...


Perhaps that is nav-s method. *r2

Just for the record, although I do mention platys and anacharis in the link in my signature, I gave them as examples to insure a new person using commonly available fish and plants had the best possible chance of success.


But these methods apply to all true aquatic plants and fish and even in saltwater as well as FW. They are definately not limited to "dull ugly fish and anancharis".

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> But these methods apply to all true aquatic plants and fish and even in saltwater as well as FW. They are definately not limited to "dull ugly fish and anancharis".


 Really doesn't sell what you're saying or better shows Anacharis may be where you need to stay.

Your method is a low-med light method, which generally will grow a lot of plants, especially the more common ones, but certainly not "all" as you mention. Your methods do not support very much, if any, higher light level either. I can explain that if you need me to.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Really doesn't sell what you're saying or better shows Anacharis may be where you need to stay.
> 
> Your method is a low-med light method, which generally will grow a lot of plants, especially the more common ones, but certainly not "all" as you mention. Your methods do not support very much, if any, higher light level either. I can explain that if you need me to.


I'm glad you agree it is more then anacharis and platties. *old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> I'm glad you agree it is more then anacharis and platties. *old dude
> 
> my .02


Yes, you can add Anubias and Vals. 'Bout it!


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

Tank is clear now, I got a new bulb for my old T9 fixture; catfish and 2 electric green tetra glofish are all happy and eating well!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

looks good. Lot more air than I believe bob would apply, maybe you'll have better success. DON'T BE AFRAID OF FILTERS.Looks good for real! Good luck.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Aeten said:


> Tank is clear now, I got a new bulb for my old T9 fixture; catfish and 2 electric green tetra glofish are all happy and eating well!


Looking good.

to me it is amazing how quickly a tank clears up after the initial mess.

my .02


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

A little advice though on your plant choices, The bambo in the center isn't aquatick and will rot.


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## Aeten (Aug 4, 2012)

So should I just remove it until it grows leaves higher then the top of the tank?


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