# Goldfish missing a few scales?



## darkhymn (Dec 16, 2014)

I have a juvenile common (feeder) goldfish (6 or so months old, got him from a fair in August) who seems to be missing a few scales in a vertical line just below the leading edge of his dorsal fin. 
(S)He's currently living in a 10 gallon tank (I know this is insufficient, he'll be moving to a 20 tall this weekend and likely a 55 in February once it's cycled) that has been up for about two months. Ammonia and nitrite are 0, nitrate is at 40, I'll be doing a pwc tonight and another in the morning. Water temperature is 73F. 
Filter is a 200 gph Aquaclear 50 HOB with the media it shipped with (sponge, carbon, bio bag). 
(S)He's pperhaps 3 1/4" long . Tankmates are a juvenile bristlenose pleco who's about an inch long, and five young harlequin rasboras who are perhaps an inch long. 
I do two 25% water changes weekly involving a deep gravel clean and test my water parameters just before and just after each water change in order to ascertain need for additional changes (such as today). 
The tank decor consists of a smallish cave and a handful of plastic plants that have been with this fish from day one. S(He) eats a combination of TetraFin floating goldfish pellets, Omega One "color flakes" (for the rasboras, primarily), Omega One veggie rounds (for the pleco, mostly), and nibbles of the occasional pea or zucchini. Diet has not changed in several weeks.

I took a few photos. This one attached is, sadly, the clearest.

Any thoughts? Research suggests it could be a bacterial infection, but I don't want to stress the fish out by moving to qt or treat for the wrong thing.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

If it is raised or swollen, it could be an infection. Losing a few scales can be a common enough, fairly harmless injury though.


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## darkhymn (Dec 16, 2014)

It is not raised or swollen. It's flush with his body. Someone on another forum I frequent suggested that it may be due to growth? This is the first fish I've had in probably 15 years, and the first I've ever cared for anywhere near properly, so I don't really know what I'm looking at.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

A few missing scales with no other signs or symptoms... darkened or blackened areas under the missing scales. Red or swollen areas at or near the missing scale sites. If the fish is behaving in a normal fashion at this time... then we must assume that this is a simple injury. Personally, having him in such a small tank I would consider also the water quality unless you are keeping the tank pristine. Have you measured your water parameters? If they are skewed I would do a 50% water change being sure to condition the water and temp match it before putting it into the tank. Beings that this is only a ten gallon you could easily do a 50% partial water change every other day using your conditioner, only in the amount that you are replacing the water amount and temp matching the water. You may see the scales mend fairly quickly. Watch the site on the fish closely, if it begins to erode even slightly I would start a careful treatment with AQ salt for a few days unless you can identify the problem i.e. a fungus, or parasite, infection etc. Ask questions on this site, their is also a goldfish specific area. Someone will be happy to help you as best they can. Good luck. Just a quick thought, is he scraping it along the "smallish cave?", sit and watch his movements. Also, try giving your Goldie a bit of bloodworm twice a week for added protein. Blanched spinach leaves clipped together work well too.


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## darkhymn (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks for the advice! He has no other marks or damage anywhere else, and he's not behaving oddly or flashing. He seems to be swimming normally and has shown no obvious signs of stress. pH is 7.3, Ammonia and Nitrites are both zero. Nitrates were a little high (40ppm) before this evening's PWC, so I'll do an extra change this morning to bring them back in line. I haven't seen him scrape on the cave. He tends to swim a little above and behind it where the current is strongest from the filter, or near the bubbles. I'll keep monitoring, but it seems to me from the feedback that he has just managed to scratch himself, so I'll hold back on medication of any kind unless it appears to worsen.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

Great! Meds, including salt, should always be held until we try perfecting their environment and performing increased water changes simply to flush out any potential nasties floating in our tanks. We perform tests for specific values but there are so many things in that water that we do not test for! I hope to hear that your Goldie is healing well. Use this site to make this fish have a great life with you. You could have a 15 year friendship in that tank. If you cannot get that 55g then at least get him in a 20L or 30L as you work towards that 55g. Long tanks provide them with more room. Tall tanks benefit our viewing of them... long tanks benefit their swimming capacity.


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## brads (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks for the advice! He has no other marks or damage anywhere else, and he's not behaving oddly or flashing. He seems to be swimming normally and has shown no obvious signs of stress. pH is 7.3, Ammonia and Nitrites are both zero. Nitrates were a little high (40ppm) before this evening's PWC, so I'll do an extra change this morning to bring them back in line. I haven't seen him scrape on the cave. He tends to swim a little above and behind it where the current is strongest from the filter, or near the bubbles. I'll keep monitoring, but it seems to me from the feedback that he has just managed to scratch himself, so I'll hold back on medication of any kind unless it appears to worsen.


Agree, probably just scratched himself. One of my Goldy's just did the same thing. (and strangely enough, in the same place!) She is healing well with no meds. :goldfish:


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## fishlips (Jul 8, 2014)

Hi, when I've noticed this on my goldfish, it has been related to harmful bacteria in the tank or a minor burn from toxins (ammonia, etc.). Your water parameters look good, (with nitrate riding a little high; are you using a water conditioner such as Prime to protect against the nitrate level until you move to the 20 gal? Prime will convert nitrate at 5 ppm per single dose and more frequent pwc to bring it down gradually to 20 or less - 0-15 ppm being ideal, would be good), so it doesn't sound like a toxin or chemical burn. My main point tho' is that, whatever the cause, I have found that adding an aloe tonic to my tank has helped these minor injuries heal and the scales grow back pretty quickly. I like it because there are no harmful side effects. You'd just add a TBL of aloe gel or juice per 10 gals of tank water to your fresh water when you do your next pwc. You can repeat for 3 days and then remove with future pwcs. You can repeat the tonic every couple of weeks. I've had fantastic results using this (with fungus as well).


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

Is that an Organic aloe gel? I was not aware of that portion of your commentary. I have always treated with clean clear water however an organic aloe gel would possibly be advantageous with great moderation. This is an ingredient in many products sold for non labrynth organ fish but it would remove all the other nasty ingredients in those bottles! Interesting.


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## fishlips (Jul 8, 2014)

Yes, I use an organic aloe gel or juice. It's very affordable at amazon. I like to use natural remedies for my fish whenever possible, just to avoid harmful side effects. I've had really good success with them and am amazed at how quickly they work. For bacterial infection, I also use a garlic tonic and/or will feed peas marinated in garlic water.


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## darkhymn (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion! I think I may do just that. His scales have started to grow back (they look scaly, but they're still off color) and he's just been happily puttering around. The 20 is all cleaned out and ready to go, it just needs substrate and a few decorations and I'll make the switch.
I got those nitrate levels under control with a series of PWCs. Unfortunately, I'm not using Prime at the moment, though when I run out of my current water conditioner I will be making the switch.


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## fishlips (Jul 8, 2014)

Great! I hope you'll give it a try. 

You know, on second thought, regarding switching to Prime, when I had a couple of fish in a 20 gal tank, they'd always start gasping at the surface during water changes and I and a friend wondered if it was the Prime. I try to remove super sat gases and am very careful with my fish, so the Prime seemed to be the culprit. Now I'm talking with another GF keeper who is having the very same thing happen in her new 20 gal tank and again, we're wondering if it's the Prime. You might want to try AmQuel Plus instead and save yourself the headache. Now that my fish are in a 50 gal tank, this never happens during water changes and I'm still using Prime. I don't quite have it figured out; just thought I'd mention it.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

That is odd??? I run many tanks of various sizes and differing fish with no ill effects. Although it is difficult to overdose it is possible... Prime is dosed in "drops" I mix mine in about a gallon of water and change it during the water change. I dose for the tank during the weekly water change and for the replacement amount only if I do a pwc mid week for any reason. Never have had any problems. Amquel is a lovely product but is very expensive and removes the ability to provide our fishy friends from this wonderful type of coverage based on the expense alone for some of our aquatic friends. I would still recommend it over Amquel at this point. And if you are considering the switch to Amquel you must also use that in conjunction with another product... I believe it is called Novaqua... More $$. The difference being you get 4 days of coveragein your tank vs. the two. Great for shipping fish but if you live with them and are on a budget then ??? If you can run a perfect tank, perfect environment, numerous water changes, excellent plant life, test consistently etc. you actually require neither of these products and could use something along the lines of Stresszyme etc. The only reason I mention Prime is that it truly helps the newer aquarists, or the busy with their lives aquarists, keep the fish in a safer environment. Well look here I have written a book. Apologies! Sorry if I sound negative on your comment I just have so many contacts and friends raising beautiful Goldies with the assistance of Prime that I cringed when I heard that. Just my opinion here. No offense meant.


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## fishlips (Jul 8, 2014)

I like this forum! People are nice when they disagree with you.  

No offense taken Farm; none at all. It's great to discuss these things and, like you, I'm just offering up what I've noticed for consideration. I priced AmQuel and (I hope it's okay to mention where I've purchased things) at least as Amazon, it's slightly less expensive than the same size bottle of Prime. You're right, though, the cost about doubles because you have to use it along with their Fish Protector. When I run out of Prime, I'm going to try these 2 products. The Fish Protector has vitamin B and Echinacea, to help calm fish and protect them from infection. I agree with you, you can overdose with Prime and so I use a dropper and am careful when dosing. 

Question, have you personally used the 5x dose that Seachem says is safe while cycling, or know of keepers who have done this without OD'ing their fish with the Prime? I'm just curious. I've read that it can burn fish at the higher dosages and am wondering about that.


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## Farm (Nov 17, 2014)

I am afraid we may be getting off topic??? I have never needed to use the product in this manner... I know many who have and many who recommend without poor results. I test frequently, perform scheduled maintenance, I believe in pristine water conditions and am very strict on not overfeeding. I am boring!


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## fishlips (Jul 8, 2014)

Point taken. I'll post my question in a more appropriate topic. Sorry darkhymn, didn't mean to hijack your thread!


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