# Treating Ich First Time



## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

I got two new discus for a community tank if some of you saw my other thread. However one of the fish seemed to develop Ich (learned my lesson about not quarantining). I quarantined the effected fish into a 10 gallon and treated with Maracide. Should I treat the rest of the 55gallon tank as well?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

First read the active ingredients of your maracide.I believe it is an antibiotic and will prove useless and costly(dead discus).If it has malechalite green and formulin as the first ingredients then it will work.If it is an antiobiotic stop using it and get Kordon rid ich plus or mardel quick cure.Those two products are PROVEN and always recommended by members who know.
You certainly should treat the whole tank and fast!I would even put the infected fish back in the 55 as to not let stress or waterquality kill him during treatment.
Next you need to learn about ich.It will trick you into thinking it is gone when it falls off the fish and multiplies by the thousands in your substrate!The ich can only be killed while it is OFF the fish so moving the infes=cted one back to main tank should not interfere with treatment.
It is important to vacumm your substrate(while medicating) to remove the fallen ich and thus allow the addition of fresh water and the proper amount of replacement meds(only replace for volume of water removed(50% wc 50% meds).
This link will provide you with very important info and the knowledge to kill the ich.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
YOUHAVE TO KILL IT OR IT WILL KILL YOUR FISH!
Skip the salt crap info,use proper meds(malechalite green and formulin) and you can kill ich in 7-10 days no problem!Wait to introduce the proper meds and allow ich to get a good hold in your tank and you'll be crying!


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Active ingredients are malachite green and chitosan. Ill move the Discuss and treat the whole tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Read the link I gave you it really is helpful to understand the enemy.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ok just read up your med.You definately want to see the color in your water.The whole chitosan thing says it "attaches" to the fish so the med will work.The ich can not be killed on the fish as it is under the fishes skin.If the ich gets worse in the next couple days I would swith over to one of the meds I recommended,as the part your missing is the formulin.Formulin is a fancy(not so blatent) name for formaldehyde,which really may be the killer.It is certainly dangerous even to fish in much stronger doses.I have used the rid ich always with great sucess and I know jrmain uses the quick cure and it works by him.They both have the samemeds.The malechalite green by itself may work,I still favor old school "dye " based meds myself and have never had a problem.
Your med says not to change water,but if you see the spots off your fish I would vaccumm and add fresh water and meds as I stated.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks so much for the info, I figured it was normal just venting frustrations haha. Ill keep an eye on the fish and will report back of anything out of the ordinary during treatment and read that article once its back up and continue to search other info as well.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Affected fish is looking much better already! Dense white spots are either gone or translucent and smaller. LFS store only had the one bottle of Maracide stuff (only treated tank once) so I ran to Petsmart and picked up APIs Super Ick Cure which contained malachite green and nitro something or other as an active ingredient. Dosed again on Sunday (forgot to remove carbon from filter cartridge d'oh!) and dosing again with API meds tomorrow morning. Wait another 48 hours and put new cartridges in 50% water change vacuuming all the gravel.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't install carbon or stop medicating for at least 4 days after last spots are seen.The ich could still be in substrate.7days is even safer.No hurry on the carbon at all as water changes will do everything the carbon does even better(removing meds and whatever).


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Medicated this morning, most except a few are clear on the one infected fish. Will wait another 48 hours and dose again if needed then wait another 48 and start my water change regiment. Thanks for the help!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Unless the fish are stressed out by the meds I would be in no rush to remove meds or do the shortest treatment you can.If the disease persist you will need to start all over again and use more meds all over again.Be patient and be sure you have killed the ich,don't just let it trick you(it is known to this with many).


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Red tailed shark and two clown loaches didnt make it over night. They were fairing ok with the treatment it seemed (yes I know scaleless fish dont fair well with a full treatment). The shark was floating belly up at the surface and loaches are completely MIA. I think they probably were eaten by the discus or angel. Only thing other than the two discus left is an angel, two guppies, and three glow tetras. Would have been loose a $60 fish and possibly the rest of them or save the $60 fish and MAYBE some of the other fish. Everyone else in the tank is perfectly happy though.

Spots seem to have have cleared up but I can tell the discus are stressed. There eyes are a little cloudy and the one infected discus still has a solid white spot on one of his fins, could be just part of his coloring that I haven't noticed before though since they are so new.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you have meds left change water!50% then redose 1/2 meds.SEARCH FOR CLOWN LOACHES,as they will do nothing good if they are dead in tank.
Sorry you lost them,I have clown loaches 10 years old + and they have actually survived stronger than full dose of rid ich plus.I think(regardless of directions{remember I said"I think"}) that changing water should be a part of treating most disease as many meds lower oxygen levels and even effect the beneficial bacteria,that could allow ammonia or nitrites to gain in our tanks.I'm big on waterchanges anyways(lot cheaper than meds over time),but usaully do 2-3X more waterchanges if I treating a tank and the meds are available and not super expensive.
If you have an air pump making bubbles in the tank to move surface more and get better gas exchange would be a good thing also.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

HOB filter plus air pump to help with gas exchange done for sure and no one gasping near the surface. The only other think I can think of is that they swam inside a ornamental imitation piece of driftwood, which broke when I tried to clean it today so chucked it anyway but there really isnt anywhere for them to hide in the tank now. Only thing I can think of is they got eaten but I thought there would be a skeleton or some bits floating around somewhere in the tank. Very mysterious.

So 50% water change and redose 50% medication?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Lowering the water level even an inch will make splashing and bubbles also.
Ya if you have the meds change 50% and redose for that volume.
My money says the clown loaches may have been in the fake wood.Mine always use to hide in a piece I had.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Ugh tank was in perfect equilibrium and received the wrong fish from Live Aquaria and through it all out of wack. Oh well, learned my lesson, sucks some of the fish had to suffer for it. 

Ill change water and redose after dinner.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Discus in general are pretty sensative fish.Anything that might be considered stressful to them(who knows what fish think?) can bring on a disease.I know you don't want to hear this but out of almost all diseases ich is one of the easy ones to deal with.Once they are cured you may want to increase your regular waterchanges to help keep them happy.You don't want to know the extremes some discus keepers go to for them(like 50% water changes every other day!).Mine seem to well with 50% a week,but sometimes I get time to do more ,and do.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Vacuumed out six, 5g bucket fulls and medicated the 30 gallons I put back into my 55 gallon tank. I made sure to turn the gravel up looking for my loaches and found nothing. Really cant imagine where they went too. They cant really jump out of the tank, didnt come out when I moved around the other ornament driftwood, the mystery continues. Ill keep an eye on ammonia levels in case they are rotting somewhere I cant see. All fish look great though less the one discus but that is expected I guess. Ill report back in the morning.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I have had some of my clown loaches stay inside hollow plastic wood(when I had it) for over 5 minutes out of water.I would be cleaning the tank and place some of the decos(hollow wood) in empty buckets and hear the loach" plop" out and flip around the dry bucket.Shine a flashlight in hollow wood if you still have it(you said you threw one out due to breaking),and I'll bet they are in it!


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

I tried flushing it out when it did break but nothing came out, and its below thirty in MA right now soooooooo its a little late if they are in there somewhere.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

One loach is back. WHERE DID YOU GO!?!? On of his fins is a little tattered, but looks appears fine otherwise. There really isnt anywhere for them to hide in the tank right now so I really don't understand it. Still wondering about the other loach now... The pair was playing/fighting a little bit before I got the discus but figured they seemed to settle down eventually. 

Discus look good minus a dense white spot still on the originally infected. Im starting to think maybe its just a deformity in his fin or coloration. Will keep a close eye on him. Did a 50%+ water change yesterday and added another 30g worth of medication last night.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Good deal on the loach!Possibly he was hiding behind filter intake pipe?They really are pretty slick!They play alot but rarely have real fights IME.
A pic of the effected discus would help,but you definatley did the right thing with waterchange and fresh meds.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Who knows, thats still only one of two though. He looks a little stressed, probably from not eating and the meds I'd imagine. Being near scaleless fish its probably a little harsh on him just not as bad as it was on my shark. 

While trying to get a picture (couldnt get a good one) I could see whatever the white spot is, is hanging onto him by a thread so I'm going to guess its ich. Eyes are still on the cloudy side but Im sure once get rid of the meds and lets them finally adjust they will be ok. Tips of the fins on the other discus appear gray/whitish. Is that just stress?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The eyes and other symptoms could just be secondary infections that are common with many diseases.The good news is that most people miss the real issue and only see the secondary one,and that if we can get the first issue under control the secondary ones often go away as the fish regains his health.
What are you feeding the discus?I HIGHLY recommend frozen blood worms.Getting them to eat stuff that is good for them is a real key to keeping them healthy also.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

I currently feed a mix of MarineLand Color Enhancing Tropical Flakes, algae wafers, and have some freeze dried blood worms. Usually feed once in the morning and once at night, always the flakes and a few wafers or blood worms. Usually whatever I grab first in the cabinet.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

All fish look clear of and spots this morning. I changed about 30% water this morning to clean up all the stuff that settled on my plants and substrate and remedicated for the full 55 gallons of water. Ill do another 50% water change on Sunday and put some carbon back in my filter.

Still no sign of loach number two.


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

I would think the Heat & Salt treatment would work great with discus - no problems keeping them at 86 degrees or even hotter. I usually find the white spots gone in 2-3 days and I run the treatment for another 10 days. I use about 1 - 1 1/2 teaspoons per gallon. As with any medication, be prepared to do a 50% water change at the first sign of heavy breathing or other stress. Otherwise, I change the water/gravel vac every day for the first 5 days. I've used it with corys, clown loaches, other loaches, and other cats as well. Cichlids and tetras you can use a higher concentration of salt, but not really any need to go higher.
And by salt, I mean table salt. With or without iodine doesn't matter. The key is to never let - not even for an hour - the temperature drop below 86 degrees. Not sure why this treatment isn't more popular.


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Treated Friday morning with medication with fish displaying no signs of ich. Changed 50% water today and did not redose medication. Also put carbon back into filter. Hopefully this is all cleared up finally! Going to do another large water change tomorrow!


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## bcalla (Jun 3, 2013)

Just saw some "salt like" white spots on one of my new black molly's and after some quick research, found out it's ick. First time for me as well so the timing of this thread is awesome

Time to get some malachite green and formulin but I just wanted to confirm, I must remove my carbon medium correct?


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## USMM (Oct 15, 2013)

Yes remove the carbon from your filters if you can. If youre using a HOB type filter with the typical cartridges you can just remove them for the time being. 

Also, for anyone who cares after being missing for nearly two weeks. The missing clown loach has reappeared. The one that showed back up died the same day, however this guy seems to be doing much better. Awkwardly enough, I replaced them already with two more clown loaches (and replaced my red tailed shark with a beautifullll one). The two new loaches are less than an inch big but full grown I know I will be overstocked, Ill see how everything goes and maybe bring the larger to the LFS.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If the carbon is in your filter cartridge you can just cut the top off and dump the carbon and keep your beneficial bacteria.You should do this anyway,since the quality and amount of carbon in filter cartridges is very low in both respects.You really don't need carbon if you do waterchanges and even high grade carbon doesn't last very long,while you would/should want to keep your cycled filter media as long as possible(till it falls apart).
Quick cure(from AP) or rid ich plus(from kordon) are both very good meds.Stay away from herbal versions and make sure there is formulin and malechalite green(the two in combo seem to be the most effective).
Change 50% of your water before first dose.


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## garstrom (Jan 5, 2014)

Very interesting...How are these meds with planted tanks?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

garstrom said:


> Very interesting...How are these meds with planted tanks?


Quick Cure or Kordon Rid Ich + will cause no issues in planted tanks. I guess they may if the treatment had to go on for weeks, but it usually knocks it out long before then.


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