# Just another noob =)



## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi everyone! =) I just purchased a 30 gallon tank and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. I would like to get a couple false percula clownfish and some sort of anemone and maybe a couple other small creatures or fish of some sort. Does anyone have any resources where I can learn what can co-exists with them or what type of habitat I should create or suggestions or anything really. =) I still have a couple months until I'll be ready to put anything in it, but I'm trying to get some sort of game plan together. 

Thanks,
Greg


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## roc-aquarium (Aug 26, 2008)

Welcome aboard Greg


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks. =)


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## MediaHound (Jul 19, 2006)

Welcome aboard! 
What else did you want to mix? You came to the right place.. but we could spend forever making suggestions. Did you see something you liked at the store and are wondering if its a good idea or not?


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I haven't really looked too much at the local fish stores since I decided to do this. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I start. I just had my boss order me a RO setup today so I haven't gotten very far yet. =) I found one site (Dr. Jungles Exotic Pets, Animals, Aquariums) that was pretty informative about the different fish. I'm really just looking for a couple unique, bright, small fish that would get along well with a clown that an anemone wouldn't kill that are somewhat easy to take care of. I've had freshwater fish most of my life, but I'm pretty much clueless (and intimidated) when it comes to sw and I don't want to get in over my head right from the beginning. lol. But, luckily I still have a couple months to cram. =)

Thanks again,
Greg


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Dont let SW intimidate you, just make sure you go very slow. When set up properly they can be very easy to take care of once they have been running for 9+ months. You say 30 gallon what is the foot print of the tank.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Lol. Thanks. I found a fish store not too far away that specializes in sw, so I'm going to go out there tomorrow and look around a little bit. It's a 29 gal. Biocube. L 20.8 x W 19 x H 20.1. It's pretty small.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Those 29 gallon Bio Cubes are nice. I will suggest one thing dont buy anything without researching first because remember LFS's are there to make money and that means selling you things even if you dont need them or are ready for them.


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## MediaHound (Jul 19, 2006)

Make a list of what they have that you like and come here and post it. 
Patience is extremely important at this stage, please remember that!


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I went to the "salty critter" today. They didn't have a ton of fish. They had a ton of live rock, corals and different plant type things. They did have what I believe might have been a Goldbelly Damsel (or something in that family, nothing was labeled very well.) that caught my eye. From what I've read it seems they might work out pretty good with a clown. It says they are territorial (but it seems like most sw fish are from what I've seen). Is the trick to break up the tank a little with rocks and coral or whatever? There is another place I want to go to tomorrow so I'll see what they have too.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks again everyone for your help. It's really kind to take time out to help a stranger. I don't remember how we ever lived without the internet. =P


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Is ordering fish online a bad idea? It seems like it would be, but I guess they are shipped to the lfs. Of course I'm guessing I'd have to wait until Spring (which is ok). If it's not a bad idea here is what I'm thinking. 

Ok. I ordered a Marine Depot Aquarium Refractometer, Kent Marine Sea Salt 50 Gallon Mix, Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand 10 lb, American Marine Pinpoint Wireless Thermometer, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Liquid Master Test Kit, Ecosystem LED Accent Lighting - Moonlight Red and a 6 stage ro system. Once I get all that set up I found a local store that sells pacific live rock. I'll get some of that to set up territories, hiding places, etc (From what I read I guess that's what your supposed to do? How many lbs do you think would be enough?). 

Then once the tank cycles I'm thinking

1- Diadema Pseudochromis
Agrresive towards similar fish.
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.025
MAXIMUM SIZE 2.5"
TANK SIZE 30
TEMPERATURE RANGE 74 - 82
PH RANGE 8.1 - 8.4

1- Indigo Hamlet
Won't tolerate other Hamlets
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.025
TANK SIZE 30
MAXIMUM SIZE 5"
TEMPERATURE RANGE 74 - 82
PH RANGE 8.1 - 8.4

2- Orange Tail Damsels
School fish, have a tendency to pick on weaker fish
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.024
DIFFICULTY 2
MAXIMUM SIZE 3"
TANK SIZE 30 gal
TEMPERATURE RANGE 76-84
PH RANGE 8.0 - 8.4

1- Yellow Tail Damsel
Ok in groups when they are young, but may become more aggressive as they grow. 
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.025
MAXIMUM SIZE 3"
TANK SIZE 30
TEMPERATURE RANGE 74 - 82
PH RANGE 8.1 - 8.4

And last

1- Springer Damsel
Aggresive towards newcomers
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.024
TANK SIZE 30
MAXIMUM SIZE 4"
TEMPERATURE RANGE 72 - 80
PH RANGE 8.0 - 8.4

2- Ocellaris Clownfish
As the fish matures, they may become aggressive towards new arrivals to the tank.
SPECIFIC GRAVITY RANGE 1.020 - 1.024
TANK SIZE 20 gal
MAXIMUM SIZE 3.5"
TEMPERATURE RANGE 76-84
PH RANGE 8.0 - 8.4

That's 8 fish totaling 27", which i'm guessing is probably too much. I've been looking to try to find out how many inches per gallon your supposed to have in a sw tank, but haven't found much yet. Found one that said 1 inch per 10 gallons, but that can't be right. So if anyone has any input about anything it would be appreciated.

Thanks, 
Greg


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

The hamlet will get way to big for your tank and so will the springer damsel, you cant really use inch per gallon rule because all fish need there territory. Damsels in general get aggresive and so are the dottybacks. I wouldnt put more then 4 fish in your tank, the 2 clowns and maybe a couple smaller fish.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok. Thanks. I'll keep looking. Should I look for some sort of small schooling fish and get a couple of those so there are less territorial issues? Any suggestions? I kind of like bright, multi- colored fish with sharp lines breaking up the color.


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## heathershill (Jan 27, 2009)

have you considered a bleeny? In my case mine has been the hardiest of all my fish with the most personality and of course he helps clean!

Be careful with clowns...in my experience they are pretty, but they are like a chihuahua...let someone else have them...every clown I have had has bit me...they run from the other fish, you think they're cute and docile...but the minute my hand goes in the tank to clean, they attack...just remember to keep bandaids handy


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Yikes! I haven't completely decided yet. My niece and nephew would love the clowns and that's why I'm considering them. I'm still working on getting everything set up though. Thanks for the suggestion of the Bleeny. I'll take a look at them.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Finally filling the tank with water. At 4.5 gallons per hour it's taking 
f-o-r-e-v-e-r.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok. So I filled the tank 1.023 sg and added 30 lbs of Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand and 10 lbs of alor live rock. The water hasn't really started doing anything yet. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are all still 0. The Ph is a little low. between 7.8 and 8. Should I be doing anything other than waiting and how do you guys regulate the ph? I've read different things but was just curious what you guys do. Also i put a small piece of fresh fish in there. Not sure if it did anything or if I should put more in there. I read somewhere that putting (dead) fresh shrimp or fish in the tank will help start the cycle. Btw, I just did it last Tues/ Wed. 4.5 days ago.


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## heathershill (Jan 27, 2009)

If it were my tank I would add more live rock...unless you are aiming for a reef tank.

Never heard the dead fish theory, I know I always get dead things out before it messes up the water...dead fish decompose and I guess they would start the cycle, but it would be easier to add fish...damsels are cheap/hardy fish. Buy a couple damsels ($5-8 each) and they'll get the cycle started...they'll also be better to look at!


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Yeah, I had planned on getting 30 lbs, but it was super expensive at the lfs. Ended up being $9 a lb. Probably order some base rock online when I get back from vacation. 

I read somewhere on a link that someone posted that putting fish or shrimp in a stocking and hanging it in the tank helps start the cycle because it produces ammonia as it decomposes. I actually have .5 ppms of ammonia today though. yay!


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

cycling with fish is very inhumane(inducing alot of stress on the fish). for your question on what fish to keep check out royal grammas and neon gobies


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree with you petlover you should never cycle a tank with fish, LR should be all you need to cycle your tank but if you want you could toss in a small piece of raw shrimp of even frozen fish food can work.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks petlover, I'll check them out. 

I threw another small piece of fish (that was on sale, and I'm pretty sure rotten by the time I got it home. lol) in there Sunday and the ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites are starting to rise. I was getting a little anxious when nothing was happening. lol. I ordered another 16 lbs of lr so moving that back and fourth across the tank will give me something to do over the next few weeks or months or however long it takes. 

Thanks again,
Greg


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

So my nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all back to 0 after only a week. Kinda weird. But I'm going on vacation next week so I'll check it again when I get home. Another question though =). hehe. My ph hasn't moved from 7.8 from day one. I've read that adding baking soda will raise it. Would you recommend doing that? Also, I read that your supposed to add Calcium, Strontium, Iodine and Trace Elements for the lr. Would you recommend this either?

Thanks in advance,
Greg


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## HeatherM (Feb 5, 2009)

Fishless cycle is always the way to go! Much less cruel than to try to save a fish through a cycle. 


Fishless Cycle

Check out the fishless cycle notes. Very helpful!!!
I believe the general rule is 1lb per gallon.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

OK. Wait a minute! You guys have a problem with putting a live fish in, but its fine to put one that was slaughtered? Whats the difference exactly? The live one in the end will live....When cycling with fish the fish dont usually die, wish FW atleast.


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## HeatherM (Feb 5, 2009)

Actually the fishless cycle i suggested uses PURE AMMONIA without additives.... Not dead fish...

I don't think we know the full extent of damage that is done during a 'fish in' cycle but why torture something that depends on you to take care of it, when you can boost the ammonia super high with a fishless and it take less time than a fish in cycle..?


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I wanted to try the pure ammonia and looked for it at the store, but was afraid I would get the wrong stuff any really mess everything up. As far as the "dead fish" goes. I read on a link that someone here posted and it suggested adding a 1"x2" piece of fish (or shrimp) and I seen a $12 filet marked down to $3 (it would of just ended up in the garbage anyway, it smelled terrible) so I thought I'd give it a whirl. The first batch of lr I got from the lfs was super clean and didn't seem to do much, but the second batch I ordered online wasn't quite as clean and I think helped more. Both fully cured. 

I'm just trying to do as much right as I can. I don't want to have a ton of money wrapped up in something that's just going to cause a lot of frustration. I'm sure I'll make a ton of mistakes, but I'm hoping it will be fun, relaxing, enjoyable, etc...... =)


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## HeatherM (Feb 5, 2009)

I belive the ACE brand at ACE hardware does not have any surficants or chemicals orr you could always use your Urine. I know plenty of people that have. It is not going to 'hurt' anything and you will be doing a very large water change before you add in fish soo....  


COPIED FROM:
Fishless Cycling for Saltwater Aquariums (Paradise Pets: Fishless Cycling for Saltwater Aquariums)
"Cycling" your marine aquarium basically means growing beneficial bacteria in the filter before you add any fish. When the tank is cycled, the filter can remove fish wastes. If the tank is not cycled, the fish will be forced to swim in their own waste products. This, in turn, will cause them to become sick, and perhaps to die. So cycling properly is very important. The method described below takes about a month. 

You will need to test the water several times during the cycling process. You can bring a sample in to your dealer for testing. It is much more convenient, however, if you have your own test kits. The basic ones are not expensive, and are easy to use. 

Step-By-Step Method 

Add enough 6% ammonium chloride solution (approximately 1/2 teaspoon per 20 gallons will be needed) to give an ammonia test reading of 1.5 - 5.0 ppm. 
Wait 24 hours. Test ammonia again. If lower than 1.5 ppm, add another 1/2 teaspoon of ammonium chloride solution per 20 gallons and test again. 
Repeat as needed until the ammonia reading remains stable between 1.5 and 5.0 ppm overnight. 

Add one pound of cured live rock or rubble per 20 gallons. 
Wait 5 days, and test for nitrite. Make a note of the date and the test result. Repeat the nitrite test every 2-3 days. Be sure to write down the date and the test result each time. 

You will see from your nitrite test results that the level of nitrite in the tank starts off slowly and then increases until the liquid in the test vial becomes very red. It remains like this for a while, and then drops off, finally reaching zero. When the nitrite level reaches zero, this indicates that you have grown a very large population of beneficial bacteria. 

Before You Add Fish to Your Tank 

Test the water for nitrate. (Notice that nitrate and nitrite are two different things.) If the result is greater that 12.5 mg/l, you should change about 1/3 to 1/2 the water in the tank before you add any fish. 
Also test the pH of the tank at this time. If the pH is lower than 8.0, change 1/3 to 1/2 of the water in the tank before adding animals. 
You can add new animals every 10 - 14 days. Remember not to overcrowd your tank. Do not try to put large fishes into a tank that is too small for them. 

It is wise to check ammonia and nitrite levels before, and a few days after, adding new animals. If either of these tests is anything other than zero, do a partial water change immediately. A positive test for either ammonia or nitrite indicates that your filter bacteria are not doing their job properly. In this situation, it is important to take quick action to protect the health of your fish and/or invertebrates. About a week after you add your first fish, and each week thereafter, you should test both pH and nitrate. Write down the date of these tests, and the test results. 

Schedule a water change of 20 - 25% when nitrate rises above 25 mg/l or when the pH falls below 8.0. If nitrate seems to rise very high in a short period of time, you may have too many fish in the tank, or you may be feeding them too much.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok. So over the past few weeks I've added 6 trochus snails, 10 blue leg hermits, 2 red leg hermits and 2 emeralds. They're pretty cool. They eat non-stop. I've started the water changes and the nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all still 0. Now, I'm trying to decide on some sort of sand sifter. The guy at the lfs mentioned a cucumber and I think they're pretty cool but the releasing toxins thing kind of makes me nervous. My question is do they release enough toxins to worry about or should I shoot for something like a orange marked goby or something like that?

oh yeah. and I have "Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand". I don't know if that matters or not.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

You would be better off with sandsifting snail and or a gobie because IMO you tank is much to small for cucumbers and sandsifting stars.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Ok. Thanks. The cucumber idea kind of made me nervous anyway and a gobie would be nicer to look at. =) I hadn't heard of a sand sifting snail before. I'll have to see if I can find some info on those too. 
Thanks again!


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Here you go Saltwater Aquarium Invertebrates for Marine Reef Aquariums: Super Tongan Nassarius Snail


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Oh. Thank you. =)


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## maryg (Feb 8, 2009)

Nassarius snails or a olive snail would be fine to clean the sand for a closed system of your size. Have you had a diatom outbreak yet? Also I would stay away from Damsels. They are real aggressive for a tank that size. If it were mine I would get a pair of clowns (of course), a six line wrasse or a royal gramma, and a small goby like a yellow watchman) Seems like you got a decent clean up crew. Maybe a very small serpent starfish. They are real cool.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks maryg. Yeah, I had what I believe is diatom. It was kind of a brown algae that was focused where my power jet blows out and spread around to the front. There are a few really small red spots too. And after the snails cleaned it up there are little white bugs crawling all over the glass. I haven't figured out what they are yet. They're so small I think Im going to have to find a magnifying glass to even be able to identify them. Thanks for your input.

Greg

That's kind of funny. I haven't completely decided yet, but I was thinking a pair of clowns, a royal gramma and a yellow watchman.


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## maryg (Feb 8, 2009)

Cool. Looks like you got some copepods. Great scavengers and food for your fish.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I found some Nassarius Snails at the lfs. I only bought 6. Wish I would of got more. They're super cool. =)


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

sorry i have not posted on this thread for a while but i just wanna put in that u should make sure u have alot of caves in the live rock...thats a must for RG's. i have never actually kept an RG before but i researched them for 1 month+ straight. they have been known for attacks on clowns, so try and look for a female. females are not as colorful, purple usually goes down past the pelvic fins, and are not as aggressive. they are actually a relative of the grouper and do have alot of grouper-like traits(i.e. huge mouth, very territorial). if u do get a royal gramma, add it last as it will become the dominant fish in the tank and if added first it will establish a territory(the whole tank), and be very aggressive. that usually happens with all territorial fish. just my 2 cents on RG's


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

> if added first it will establish a territory(the whole tank)


 lol. 

Thanks for your advice. I wasn't aware of that. 

I also found out that the sand I have is good for sand sifters and soft belly fish, but not the best for burrowing. So I may also have to scratch the yellow watchman goby or change the sand. Not sure what Im going to do yet.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

i checked out this sand u have and from the pics IMO it looks like crushed coral. there is something on this thread no one has mentioned yet: a cleaner species. kick off the YWG and replace it with a neon goby. cleaner shrimps are really expensive while cleaner wrasses ONLY eat by cleaning. neon gobies are colorful, cheap, and hardy. i recommend u get one of these first, as it will top off your clean-up crew, and once it is established, add the clowns. be sure to get 1 big one and 1 small one. and last, a female royal gramma. remember what i said about how to tell if its a female.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I've thought about the neon goby as well. My only concern has been that I've read that they're short lived. But I'm thinking cheap and hardy might make a good combination to start off with until I gain some experience. 

I've been testing my nitrates, nitrites, ammonia & ph. Should I be testing anything else? I'm not planning on adding any type of corals or anything at this point. 

Thanks,
Greg


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

cleaner wrasses are even more short-lived while cleaner shrimps are sensitive and at 25$ may be a little past your budget. for your testing, u might also want to test carbonate hardness.


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

the smallest saltwater tank should be a 75 gallon. this way the hobbyist can enjoy is tank as a hobby and not a constant, expensive job. smaller tanks are harder to maintain because of constant fish and crustacean defication. saltwater fish urinate in ppm, but they urinate constantly, changing the chemical levels in a smaller tank, at least a larger tank provides some kind of natural biological filteration. clams are also a natural filteration system and need 2 dig which helps u stir up the substrate. u will spend all the money to get a small tank while u will just find out u want a bigger tank. it looks like i am a little too late to warn u, though.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Yeah, lol. I already want a bigger one and I haven't even started yet. Unfortunately extra space is somewhat of an issue right now. One day maybe. =)


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

> u might also want to test carbonate hardness.


Thanks. I'll check that out.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

carbonate hardness, if i am correct, is the amount of various different particles in the water. Carbonate hardness is measured in dKH. The dKH of a SW tank should always remain in between 8 and 12 degrees.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

o and just for a little info in case u try a reef tank in the future, the dKH of a reef tank should always remain between 7 and 10 degrees


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## saltydad (Jun 27, 2008)

Don't forget to check specific gravity if not checking salinity directly.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

Oh yeah. I'm checking that too. =)

Thanks,
Greg


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

I figured out that I have what I believe is a aiptasia anemone. =( I hate to kill it because it's kind of neat, but I guess I'll be getting a peppermint shrimp tomorrow because apparently they are evil. =P hehe.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

uh-oh that aint good. Hurry up and kill it before your tank looks like an ataipsia reef.


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## kingskidgthomas (Jan 12, 2009)

lol. that's what i've heard. hopefully there aren't any more!!


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