# is ro/di water necessary?



## ashleykn

I have a 24 gallon bio cube set up and i have been reading about ro/di water and i have some questions.

1) is it necessary? i checked the filtered water that comes out of my fridge and the readings were: nitrate: 5, nitrite: 0, hardness: 150, chlorine: 0, alkalinity: 150, ph: 7.2

i talked to two fish shops and they both told me different answers. one told me it wasn't necessary to use ro/di water- in fact that they use tap water. the second one told me it was completely necessary.

2) if i need to get a unit would this be a good one? :
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...047&cmd=VIDESC

also-- do units stay hooked up and make water all the time? or can i just hook it up and use it when needed?


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## Rufus' Mom

http://http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.html#correct_ro

If I pasted it in correctly, the link above answered a ton of questions for me about the use of RO/DI water in aquariums. It addresses marine as well as freshwater. 

You can get either a whole house unit or one that you use as needed.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics

Yes and No, I use RO/Di with my freshwater fish in order to have uncompromised and unaltering base readings, it takes the chemical work out of keeping tanks stabilized if you have buffering issues and if you use tap you have buffering issues no matter what due to water supply treatment fluctuations.


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## ashleykn

any suggestions for systems under $100?


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## gar1948

I have never used anything but tap water for the last 50 years of fresh water fish keeping. Salt water is different and I think it is better to start with r/o water. Unless your tap water is way out of the ordinary, don't worry with most fresh water fish.


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## Reefing Madness

Reverse Osmosis RO 100 GPD 5 Stage DI Water Filter D1005R1 741459921231 | eBay
For use only when you need it. You hook up Johnny Guest shut off valves to the system, and just turn them on when you want the water to come out. The down side to that is, you not getting a system that makes water really fast. Most use something like a 50 gallons per day or 75 gallons per day unit, so its best to have a barrel or storage container to store your water in when you nee it. I use a 165gpd unit, and store it in a 55g drum next to the unit in the garage.
Now onto your first question.
For a Fish only tank, you do not need an RO/DI unit, the fish don't care about the small amount of Nitrates and Calcium that comes in the water. They do'nt much care for the Chlorine though, so therefore you will need to dose the tap water before you add it to the tank, because a skimmer does not like water treatments either.
For a tank with Corals, it would ne best to use an RO/DI, is it necessary, no. If you just plan on keeping Soft Corals in the tank, they will be ok, Trates and some Phosphates don't much bother some of those kinds of corals. You will on the other hand, get some sponge and other weird looking stuff growing in the tank if you do plan on using Tap Water.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics

Reefing has a good link there, perfect system. I have us water systems 100gpd and 300gpd and a "portable" one like the link to take to customers as needed. Its nice.


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## Nereus7

I went RO/DI. It's expensive up front but my guys eat before me so "as they wish". Also, I get a little worried with the adding chemicals to take care of chemicals etc. It never ends. Kind of like that digging yourself out of a hole saying. Another thing, tap water changes, so does well water for that matter but, all the stories I've read that start off, "I did a water change, and now all of a sudden every one of my fish died" were ALL tap water people. I sleep a little easier knowing exactly what's in my water.

Just make sure you know what to add back, I initally mixed my water with the KH too low. Any easy fix though. - N


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## beaslbob

ashleykn said:


> I have a 24 gallon bio cube set up and i have been reading about ro/di water and i have some questions.
> 
> 1) is it necessary? i checked the filtered water that comes out of my fridge and the readings were: nitrate: 5, nitrite: 0, hardness: 150, chlorine: 0, alkalinity: 150, ph: 7.2
> 
> i talked to two fish shops and they both told me different answers. one told me it wasn't necessary to use ro/di water- in fact that they use tap water. the second one told me it was completely necessary.
> 
> 2) if i need to get a unit would this be a good one? :
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...047&cmd=VIDESC
> 
> also-- do units stay hooked up and make water all the time? or can i just hook it up and use it when needed?


RO/DI water is never necessary for Fish.

And it is not the parameters you listed but rather heavy metal ions like copper that degrade more delicate corals anemonies and so on.

So part of the answer depends on what type of tank do you want.

the other part is how the tank is being maintained. I use macro algaes and no water changes. Which keeps things like copper in line.

The RO/DI units are rated in gallons per day. So you have to run them all the time and there is a very high like 50-70% reject rate from what I hear. By that I mean that for every 100g created there is another 100-200g that goes down the drain.

my .02


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## WhiteGloveAquatics

depends on the unit and how much you spend, my 300gpd is a 1:1 ratio unit and my waste water that yes I pay for going out just as much as what comes in(they mirror the bill in my town) and I use that waste water for my landscape plants outside(obviously)

And yes water sources change parameters all the time infact several times a day due to weather or lots of waste water being produced. Ive run RO water for over 3 years now and the only fish I have lost in that time frame has been noobs who dont survive the trip from hawaii or brazil. 

I had a wild discus come in with less then 1/4" of water in the bag, he was unable to be floated so he was drip acclimated to my RO water, yup he is alive and well and a proud father of about 700 kids.


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## Reefing Madness

beaslbob said:


> RO/DI water is never necessary for Fish.
> 
> And it is not the parameters you listed but rather heavy metal ions like copper that degrade more delicate corals anemonies and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> my .02


WRONG! Trates in the water at high levels will kill corals and Anemones.
Where do you come up with this crap dude.


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## beaslbob

Reefing Madness said:


> WRONG! Trates in the water at high levels will kill corals and Anemones.
> Where do you come up with this crap dude.


Trates come overwheling from the bioload but copper and other heavy ions come overwheoming from the replacement water. 

By limiting being added and fully comsuming the nitrates with macor algae or an algae turf scrubber you also filter oud copper and heavy ions.

A world health organization report on copper and corals reported experiments on a macro algae which biosorbed copper so that in two weeks copper in the macro increased from 50ppm to 1030ppm when exposed to 250ppm copper. Copper levels in major US cites have an at tap level at and usually lower than 250ppm. The absorbtion rate was lineraly porportional to the copper conentration and had not reached final maximum values after the two weeks.


Sure copper for corals in the ocean is much lower like the ppb levels but to say algae does not bio absosbe copper as well as stabilize and balance out ammonia/nitrate has been demonstrated incorrect.

Perhaps you have some actual scientific experimental results that contradict those.

my .02


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## Reefing Madness

We are talking about the tap water. Try and stay on course here. You never know how much of or what exactly yiur going to Get out of the tap, that's why its best to test it before using it. Low trates and copper for fish are not an issue. They are for corals.


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## beaslbob

Reefing Madness said:


> We are talking about the tap water. Try and stay on course here. You never know how much of or what exactly yiur going to Get out of the tap, that's why its best to test it before using it. Low trates and copper for fish are not an issue. They are for corals.


Gee kinda though I was on course.

Glad we agree on the copper concerns are just for corals.


Plant life like macro algae or truf algae in an ats will result in unmeasureable trates in any marine tank using any potable tap water source. and phosphates as well.

I guess you agree with the reported ability of marco algae to bioaccumulte copper as well. 


my .02


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## ashleykn

okay so i think i will get a unit..

but the only corals i have are basic soft corals. 
i just dont like all the algae and cynobacteria issues with fresh water..
just wish i didn't have too.


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## Reefing Madness

ashleykn said:


> okay so i think i will get a unit..
> 
> but the only corals i have are basic soft corals.
> i just dont like all the algae and cynobacteria issues with fresh water..
> just wish i didn't have too.


Smaller tanks are easier to take care of in that aspect. You can get RO/DI water from a shop, that doesn't cost alot.


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## beaslbob

ashleykn said:


> okay so i think i will get a unit..
> 
> but the only corals i have are basic soft corals.
> i just dont like all the algae and cynobacteria issues with fresh water..
> just wish i didn't have too.


With marine tank you have algae issues also.

what happens in marine is you go through some initial phases like brown then green. Then things run great for about 6 months and finally nitrates drop down.

Then the second foot drops and you get a red cyano bacteria bloom that can cover everything. Because there is still phosphates and cyano can get its nitrogen from nitrogen gas in the water column. Plus if you have anarobic/anoxic (low oxygen) in the substrate that reduces nitrate to nitrogen gas. So at the substrate (and rocks) surface you have low oxygen, higher carbon dioxide and nitrogen gas. And the cyano spreads very rapidily.

I use maceo algaes to consume the nutrients to prevent all that. And if it does happen kill the lights stop adding food until the cyano dies off. that returns nitrogen to the ammonia/nitrates the macro and other algaes can use.


my .02


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## ashleykn

okay changed my mind. im going to just keep using tap water (checking it before hand of course) because i am not going to get any high maintenance corals. i only have some soft corals in there with live rock, two ocellaris clownfish, a sapphire blue damsel, and a coral banded shrimp. 

im looking into adding a fish to seep the sand clean.. that is where most of the algae is. should i get a sand sifting goby? 

thanks for all the help!


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## AZDesertRat

Water is the single largest ingredient in an aquarium and everything depends on its quality and its stability.
It is foolhardy to not use RO/DI since the cost is minimal. A good reef quality RO/DI from one of the oldest and best names in the business is only $128. The cost to produce a gallon of RO/DI on average is about a nickel, thats 5 cents.
MAXPURE MPDI SYSTEM

I have been keeping saltwater aquariums for over 30 years and reefsspecificallty for over 25 years myself. In the beginning I used tap water from deep wells, not even treated surface water with organics and I still constantly fought algae and other issues.
I switched to purchased bulk RO only in about 1990 and things improved dramatically and once I purchased my own RO then later RO/DI the differences are night and day.


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