# Just got my first fish. Couple of newbie questions!



## azdaboss (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi guys,

Well yesterday I got my first fish - a hermit crab (very impressive!), a couple of domino damsels, a purple and yellow wrasse, and another fish i dont know the name of. These fish are just there to get the tank cycling, and i'll be adding more fish soon 

Just a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with:
1) The water is quite cloudy. How can I sort this? Before I added the fish it wasn't cloudy. I also added a few ornaments and peices of live rock yesterday.
2) How can I clean up excess food from the tank?

I currently have a 200 litre tank (52 U.S. gallons) tank, with a Fluval U4 internal filter and 2kg of live rock. I've added Tropical marine gravel on top of the normal gravel I had there first to help with filtration.

I was told the hermit crab would also help with filtration.

Please also advise of what extra things I need for the tank.

Thanks!


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

azdaboss said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Well yesterday I got my first fish - a hermit crab (very impressive!), a couple of domino damsels, a purple and yellow wrasse and another fish i dont know the name of. These fish are just there to get the tank cycling, and i'll be adding more fish soon
> 
> ...


Wow where should we start.First off welcome. How long has this tank been up and running? And what kind of ornaments? The cloudiness maybe a sign of not enough filtration the u series are good filters for terrariums and turtle tanks it may not be enough for a salt water tank. For a salt water tank you want a filter rated at maybe 2x's the water volume of your tank. And only having 4.5lbs of live rock your filter has no help. Believe me I'm not trying to be a kill joy here. Most wrasse seek shelter in sand beds and with gravel this may stress the fish out. And domino damsels can be some of the nastiest fish you can add to your tank, they maybe ok when they are small but as they grow one is bad two can be trouble. Did you have your water tested?


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

azdaboss said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Well yesterday I got my first fish - a hermit crab (very impressive!), a couple of domino damsels, a purple and yellow wrasse, and another fish i dont know the name of. These fish are just there to get the tank cycling, and i'll be adding more fish soon


Isn't it fun when you first start?


azdaboss said:


> Just a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with:
> 1) The water is quite cloudy. How can I sort this? Before I added the fish it wasn't cloudy. I also added a few ornaments and peices of live rock yesterday.
> 2) How can I clean up excess food from the tank?


The cloudy conditions as trouble93 stated could be a sign of a filtration issue. I'm not familiar with the pump you use but its always good too get one rated about double what your tank volume is.

You should get about 10 snails and 10 crabs. This will do the trick for the left over food, also......don't feed as much. Only feed as much as they will eat.



azdaboss said:


> I currently have a 200 litre tank (52 U.S. gallons) tank, with a Fluval U4 internal filter and 2kg of live rock. I've added Tropical marine gravel on top of the normal gravel I had there first to help with filtration


.

gravel isent really the best idea for a salt water tank in my opinion. Bits of food can get trapped underneath the gravel and cause water quality issues. Another issue is the silicates found in regular gravel can be a breeding ground for algae.



azdaboss said:


> I was told the hermit crab would also help with filtration.


He will! But you need more then 1.



azdaboss said:


> Please also advise of what extra things I need for the tank.


Would it be possible to get a picture of your tank along with your water temperature and specific gravity (salt), nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, and ammonia readings.


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## azdaboss (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys! Well it seems the cloudiness disappeared overnight and the water is fine now. 

Now i have another problem! One of the dominoes looks like it is on the verge of dying, spending all of its time at the bottom of the tank breathing very fast with its side against a rock! The wrasse and other yellow fish have retreated to hiding places and dont come out and dont seem to be feeding properly. The only fish that is doing fine is the other dominoe. I think it is a bullying issue as it is slightly larger out of the two. The hermit crab seems to be doing fine.

I did a 10% water change because pH seemed a bit low, but it didnt help. Temp is 25°c, tank has been running for 4 days so nitrite is on its way up, pH is stable at 8.0

please help make my fish better!!!!

I'll try n get pics up tomorrow


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

azdaboss said:


> Thanks for the replies guys! Well it seems the cloudiness disappeared overnight and the water is fine now.
> 
> Now i have another problem! One of the dominoes looks like it is on the verge of dying, spending all of its time at the bottom of the tank breathing very fast with its side against a rock! The wrasse and other yellow fish have retreated to hiding places and dont come out and dont seem to be feeding properly. The only fish that is doing fine is the other dominoe. I think it is a bullying issue as it is slightly larger out of the two. The hermit crab seems to be doing fine.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say you may have overloaded you system. I wouldn't trust a fish store that would sell you that many fish for a tank that is less then a week old. Sad to say, but there are LFS that are just after your money and just don't care if things live or die. The best thing for you to do is take those fish back. And give your tank chance to cycle properly. Nitrites are toxic to fish. You should look to add more cured live rock. Don't get discouraged, and keep this in mind no good thing happens in this hobby over night. It takes time to develop a healthy system. Also look to upgrade your filtration. I hate to make it sound like I'm picking your whole system a part, but there are just a few things you should look to go another route. Using gravel you will have a hard time keeping your PH stable. All is not lost sometime it's best to go back to square one and get a good start the second time around.


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## mcook33 (Aug 9, 2010)

How long has the tank cycled before putting in the fish?Here is a little information on the cycles the tank goes through before adding fish it is lengthy but should help.....
Some call it the biological cycle, the nitrification process, new tank syndrome or even the start-up cycle. They all are referring to the same cycle - The Nitrogen Cycle. This very important cycle is the establishment of beneficial bacteria in the aquarium and in the filter media that will help in the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and then the conversion of nitrite to nitrates. Check out the aquarium water chemistry page (on the left) for more information on these terms. 

This process can take from 2 weeks to 2 months or longer to complete. It is vital for anyone planning on keeping aquarium fish to understand this process. Learning about this process will help you to be successful in keeping fish and it should definitely improve your chances when keeping tropical fish. The best way to monitor the nitrogen cycle is to purchase an aquarium test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph. 

Test your aquarium water every other day and write down your readings. You will first see ammonia levels rising. A few weeks or so later you should see the nitrite levels rising and the ammonia levels dropping. Finally, after a few more weeks you should see the nitrate levels rising and the nitrite levels dropping. When you no longer detect ammonia or nitrites but you can detect nitrates you can assume that it is safe to add your tropical fish. 



Photo Credit: Ilmari Karonen 
Nitrogen Cycle Stages
Stage 1
Ammonia is introduced into the aquarium via tropical fish waste and uneaten food. The tropical fish waste and excess food will break down into either ionized ammonium (NH4) or un-ionized ammonia (NH3). Ammonium is not harmful to tropical fish but ammonia is. Whether the material turns into ammonium or ammonia depends on the ph level of the water. If the ph is under 7, you will have ammonium. If the ph is 7 or higher you will have ammonia. 

Stage 2
Soon, bacteria called nitrosomonas will develop and they will oxidize the ammonia in the tank, essentially eliminating it. The byproduct of ammonia oxidation is Nitrites. So we no longer have ammonia in the tank, but we now have another toxin to deal with - Nitrites. Nitrites are just as toxic to tropical fish as ammonia. If you have a test kit, you should be able to see the nitrite levels rise around the end of the first or second week. 

Stage 3
Bacteria called nitrobacter will develop and they will convert the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates are not as harmful to tropical fish as ammonia or nitrites, but nitrate is still harmful in large amounts. The quickest way to rid your aquarium of nitrates is to perform partial water changes. Once your tank is established you will need to monitor your tank water for high nitrate levels and perform partial water changes as necessary. There are other methods to control nitrates in aquariums besides water changes. For freshwater fish tanks, live aquarium plants will use up some of the nitrates. In saltwater fish tanks, live rock and deep sand beds can have anaerobic areas where denitrifying bacteria can breakdown nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas that escapes through the water surface of the aquarium. 

Getting The Nitrogen Cycle Started
There are two ways to get the aquarium cycle started, either with fish or without fish. 

Starting The Nitrogen Cycle With Fish
This is not the preferred way to get the nitrogen cycle started because the fish are being exposed to ammonia and nitrites during this process. Many fish can not and will not make it through the cycling process. Often times the fish become stressed and fish disease starts to break out. I wonder what percentage of disease is caused by the cycling of new aquariums?

Certain species are hardier than others and seem to tolerate the start-up cycle better than others. For freshwater tanks, the zebra danio is a very hardy fish that many use to get the nitrogen cycle started. For saltwater tanks, some have reported success using damselfish to get the process started. Again, using fish to cycle is not a good idea and you may be throwing your money (on dead fish) out the window. There is a better way. Read on, young grasshopper.

Starting The Nitrogen Cycle Fishless
There are a few different ways to get this process started. To easily get an ammonia reading from your tank water try the Seachem Ammonia Alert. It sticks inside the tank and has a circle that changes color depending on the ammonia levels in the tank. 

Option 1:
Using Fish Food
Drop in a few flakes every 12 hours. As the food decomposes it will release ammonia. You will have to continue to "feed" the tank throughout the process to keep it going.

Option 2:
Use a small piece of raw fish or a raw shrimp
Drop a 2 inch by 1 inch chunk of raw fish or a raw shrimp into the tank. As it decomposes it will release ammonia into the tank.

Option 3:
Use 100% pure ammonia.
Using a dropper, add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water. If you don't get an ammonia reading with your test kit, add some more drops until you start to see an ammonia reading. Keep track of how many drops you've used so you can repeat this process daily. Continue to dose the tank with ammonia until you start to get nitrite readings with your test kit. Once you can detect nitrites you should only add 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water, or if you added more drops originally to get an ammonia reading cut the amount of drops used in half. Continue this process daily until you get nitrate readings with your test kit. Do a 30% water change and your tank is ready.

Option 4:
Use gravel and/or filter media from an established and cycled tank
This is the best and fastest way to go. This will seed the tank with all of the necessary bacteria for the nitrogen cycle. "Feed" the tank daily with flake food until you are getting nitrate readings. Depending on how fast you were able to get the gravel and filter media into your tank, you may be getting nitrate readings in only a day or two. There are some drawbacks to this method. Ask your source if they have recently used any copper medications in the tank. If they have and you are planning to have invertebrates in the tank you should probably not use this method. Invertebrates will not tolerate copper. Get a copper test kit to determine if it's safe to use.

Option 5:
Using live rock in Saltwater Tanks
The use of live rock in saltwater tanks has really taken off over the past few years. The reason for this is because it is one of the best forms of biological filtration available for saltwater tanks. The shape the rock is in when you get it will determine how long the nitrogen cycle will take. See step 7 on the saltwater setup page for more information on live rock.

Option 6:
Use Colonize by Dr. Foster and Smith - claims to colonize your water with the necessary bacteria needed to get the cycle going along with detoxifying ammonia so it doesn't harm the fish. To be used at the start of the tank setup and whenever you add new fish to your tank.

Another bacteria culture product is Tetra SafeStart. People have reported success on the forum with using Tetra SafeStart. Do a quick search on the forum for other members' input.

Use Instant Ocean BIO-Spira for Saltwater Tanks made by Marineland (the freshwater version may have been discontinued). This product claims to contain some patent pending species of nitrifying bacteria that will cycle your tank in 24 hours. Some of the FishLore forum members have tried it and it sounds like it is legitimate. It is kind of expensive, but if you already have fish in your tank and they are suffering through the cycle, you may want to check this stuff out. 1 ounce of this product is supposed to treat a 30 gallon freshwater tank. There are both freshwater and saltwater versions of Bio-spira. Please let us know if you use this and if it works for you by submitting comments below. 
Once the cycle has started only add one or two fish at a time. Wait a couple of weeks before adding more fish. This will give your tank the time it needs to catch up with the increased bio-load.
Speeding Up the Cycling Process
There are things you can do to speed along the process of cycling your aquarium. 

Increase the temperature of your aquarium water to 80°F-82°F (27°C-28°C) 
Get some beneficial bacteria colonies. Borrow some gravel from an established and cycled aquarium. If you have another tank with an extra filter you can use it. If you have a really nice friend with an established and cycled aquarium, ask if you can have one of their used filter media. It will be loaded with the good bacteria that we are looking for. 
There are products on the market that claim to introduce the beneficial bacteria. For more information, check out products like Bio-spira and Tetra SafeStart in option 6 above. There are many more products entering the market that contain the beneficial bacteria necessary to seed your tank. Between live rock (for saltwater aquariums) and the bottled bacteria being readily available, there really is no excuse to make fish suffer through a cycle.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

a bit of a read but tons of good info


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

that U4 is an internal filter, its IMO Junk, I have a U2 in a 15g turtle tank in about 5g of water and it barely cleans it. You need a proper marine filter system not an internal all in 1 filter. atleast get a canister filter for it. the U4 does not provide nearly enough space for the bacteria to do its job.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Everybody is hitting on just about the same area Filtration. Filtration is a 3 fold operation biological, mechanical and chemical. A good canister IMO fluval 305 will give you the space you need. And from what I have been told Rena makes a easy to clean canister with large media baskets for addition different types chemical media.


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## azdaboss (Aug 24, 2010)

Sorry for the late reply, have been extremely busy last couple of daya. First off thanks for the great info. Surprisingly enough my fish seem to be back to normal swimming all around the tank as before! The only problem is that the smallest fish the wrasse, likes to hide in the live rock sometimes all day long and he never seems to feed properly. Also my hermit crab is showing white patches on its legs. Is this normal? Photos of my tank and crab are in my gallert. Again sorry for the late reply.


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## DEEGOON (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi,
Im not an expert in SW but make sure that the ornament you made doesnt release any contaminants into your water.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

how long was the tank up before you added fish, also how long did you wait between adding fish too the tank?

Also what is the ornament you made, made out of?

AND you have like 1 piece of live rock... your going to need a lot more.


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## azdaboss (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok iv taken the ornament out. It was nade out of white clay with metallic glaze as a paint. Thinking about it, it was a silly idea! Im going to be getting more live rock on saturday. The fish were added 2 days after the tank started with the advise if my lfs.


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

In the long run those things in your tank will lead to problems with algae unstable PH and silicates. Take a minute and look around at some other salt water tanks and how they are set up. I understand wanting different but it needs to be functional.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

the glass bottle is a cool idea though....I might think about doing that myself


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## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

GetITCdot said:


> the glass bottle is a cool idea though....I might think about doing that myself


Paul B has had beer bottles in his tank for years.


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