# after today...my bettas will never see live food again other than brine shrimp



## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

this morning my black betta was all happy and healthy after his live food...i fed him again with mosquito larvae earlier and now he is literally covered in Ich. thank goodness i thought to put in methylene blue this morning..if i must start my own cultures of live food like microworms then i will, but this is a complete shock. i can be so thankful to my lucky stars that i thought this as a possibility


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I can't say anything for sure,but I'll bet there are a "few more 'biologically' informed people", but I found no inference to mosquito larvae being able to support ich.Although salt water ich is totally different,I know in fresh water snails can carry ich(when they have been around fish with ich),but no invert can support ich living.So I'll Guess that if the mosquito larvae didn't come from where there were fish it cpould not have brought the ich with it.To me I would think if there were fish where the mosquito larvae were there wouldn't any(they eat it like pigs).
Hope you betta gets better,it usaully takes more than MB to kill ich(I'm a huge fan of MB).


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

where i got the larvae from was an outside pond that had clearly rotten water in and it wasnt just larvae i scooped out. i really shouldnt have given it to him but i didnt want him going hungry..i have a med specially for ich but everytime i've used it, it made the ich worse so i always resort to MB because it works faster so i'll be doing another water change and putting a bit more in with some salt


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Raise his temp slowly to 90 for a few days. To be honest I do not think it was the food. I have some pretty stagnant pools of water outside myself which sit under trees that I collect from. I have never heard of any instances where ich would come in on food like that. It is very possible he had the parasite with him when you got him and he finally sucommed to it.

Also, please do not use salt. It can do more harm than good for the fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That would be the first time I have heard of it being carried in on food. The Ich meds that have worked the best for me have been med cocktails that also included MB. Something like Quick Cure or Rid Ich+. If that med has worked for you in the past...I haven't read too many positives of being used by itself.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

turns out, he may well have been harbouring it already...my main tank with the bala shark also has it but the bala shark is infested with it the same way as the betta so my guess is that i didnt treat long enough the first time round now i have to do it again unfortunately. and honestly, methylene blue is the only reliable med ive got thats worked for me in the past. one thing i'd like to know though, should i put an airstone inside? although i've tried not to ive been crying my eyes out each time i see my betta infected with it..ive been so careful to look after each of them but my newer fish should have been quarantined. it sucks big time...not my best year regarding my tanks.. i've been so stressed and upset with the all the nonsense ive had this year and just when i was about to give up on them i decided to give it another try and i'll do anything for these fish and it also happens to be the sixth year that ive been keeping fish and etc. at least the other fish are healthy..


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

An airstone will help as even just the MB will lower the oxygen level.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

With your main tank having ich already, I can see it being transferred by net, water bucket or drain hose. Even moving plants or deco can transfer it from one tank to another

And another thing that I was told by an ichtologist is the parasite lives in all bodies of water and all it takes is a little bit of stress from temp changes or messing with a tank to much can set it off.


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## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

The ich was not from the food, and yes it lives in all bodies of water. People say, "My tank got ich," no it had ich and you made it act up.

Ich lives in cycles, thus it came back with a vengence because it wa on the bottom multiplying. First things first, start upping the temp as advised before. Next add some level of salt content, what ever the tank can tolerate. Last, make a salt bath for your fish and give them a bath. I use 1-Tbs. per gallon for about 5-10 min. You may want to run an airline as salt water doesn't hold oxygen like fresh water.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

not to be rude, but i do NOT believe Ich has been multiplying in my tank. other than my 120L, NONE of my tanks have gravel for it to multiply in, and that big tank is the most stable and best looked after tank. if ich had been multiplying in that tank, it would have broken out a long time ago. one or two of my tanks have had trouble this year but this 120L for the first time in the 3 years that ive had it set up has got ich. i've NEVER had any problems in this tank so the only possible place where the ich may have come from was the new fish. i have a tendency to trust most petshops with their fish as being "fine" and not quarantine my tanks, which i think we all know wont be a mistake i make again.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ich does NOT live in any dormant stage in every tank.A fish either carries it or it doesn't.It is often missed by almost everyone(besides scientist) because it's last hiding spot(and often it's first choice) is the gills of the fish(in the gills where they can't be seen).
It is not in every tank.It is easily introduced by even stressing factors,as opposed to only new infected fish.This leads many to believe it is always in the tank(just not true).
I remember when Navigator Black was corrected for this very statement and he came back with real info and huge thankyou to whoever corrected him.
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
Section 1 .Only have to read 1 paragraph.It is the first thing they address.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, like most parasites Ich needs a host to survive. It lives for a little while in the water after it has dropped from the fish, but not for very long.

Also if you plan to medicate, DO NOT increase temp. Meds will deplete oxygen levels from your tank, just as increasing the temperature will. Both together can be too much for the fish. Salt you can add at your discretion. Treating Ich with meds is the only sure way to make sure it is gone for sure, IMO. And you do it without all of the added stress of a higher temp. Some fish do okay with a high temp, some don't. Whatever your path, you need to treat long enough that you are sure it is gone. For meds, generally you continue to treat a minimum of 4 days past the last time you saw a sign of it on any fish. Some go 7-10 days.

Some believe increasing the temp speeds up the ich cycle, and this is true to an extent. But unless you have a cold water tank your temp should already be in the range that the cycle is already in the 3-4 day cycle. Increasing the temp to speed up the cycle really only applies to water that is lower than 58F. Also, using temp as a means to kill Ich is what I was referring to mostly above. You will need temps at or above 87F to start to kill it. This is the area where you can start to see stress on your fish. You can lower your water level so your return splashes in the water or even add a powerhead to help with the oxygen depletion.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This was the thread where perma link 31 started it all.Ich does die and you have to kill it!Real meds ,no salt!No salt for the betta anywway accorgding Bev(and we have believe her knowledge of bettas!).
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f5/possible-ick-40027.html


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL thanks 

Yes no salt for bettas it can cause kidney and liver failure.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Well I will still go by what the Ichtologist says as they specialize in fish diseases.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

susankat said:


> Well I will still go by what the Ichtologist says as they specialize in fish diseases.


I believe Ich lives in all bodies of water. However being an avid fishermen and a career Sailor in the Navy, no way would I consider any of my tanks a "body of water".


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

susankat said:


> Well I will still go by what the Ichtologist says as they specialize in fish diseases.


Upon thinking about it and taking your words accurrately I am willing to believe that ich does live somewhere in everybody of water(natural ones).I can't imagine a scenario where nature would totally eliminate it.
Now in our tanks?It can be killed(documented) and therefore we don't need to assume all our tanks have ich.
It is safe to assume every new fish you get has ich (hidden in the gills) that will we never see until we press the right stress buttons(we all seem to good at that).This is why QT's exist and rule.No experienced keeper aquires new fish without.Even if they only go right into there new tank they would be the only fish.
Ich can and will continue to be brutal to many.
I'd raise the temp for the betta(87-90+ ) if the fish will tolerate.Most strains of ich can be killed by extreme heat,and I think bettas are one of the few fish capable of extreme temps?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I used to treat my new fish with quick cure for 4 days back when I ran a QT. Now I would use Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride in its place. It is anti-microbial, anti-fungal, and anti-bacterial. Some don't believe in medicating new fish.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

coralbandit said:


> I'd raise the temp for the betta(87-90+ ) if the fish will tolerate.Most strains of ich can be killed by extreme heat,and I think bettas are one of the few fish capable of extreme temps?


Indeed, yes they can tolerate higher temps. The guy I got my white platinums from would spawn his fish in 90 degree waters, to speed the egg hatching and growth process. Plus the added benefit of ich not able to survive that high.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You might be able to google facts on tanks having an outbreak of ich in which no new fish has been added. Temp fluctuations causing enough stress to get an outbreak. I have seen it myself.

I never add new fish to an established tank since most of my tanks are species only but have not had an outbreak in probably 8 or 9 years. Last outbreak was caused by a power failure in which I couldn't keep the tanks heated.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

ai well all i can do is get rid of it now..and soon since he refuses to eat anything but still active thank goodness and hopefully it will be the last outbreak in my tanks


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I would raise your temps as high as you can and use the MB.There is documentation to the fact it can kill ich(like other meds when it is free swimming).The ich can only be killed when it is free swimming,not on the fish,not in the substrate,only when free swimming.Vacumm the bottom good also as this helps remove the tomont phase,before the meds get to them.


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## MeganV (Sep 22, 2013)

I was always under the idea that ich was always hosted in fish. It is a hit or a miss if the fish is already contracting ich or not. Maybe I am totally wrong though...

Quoted from thepetadvantage.com
"Ich is considered the common cold of fi
sh. Just like germs that make humans
sick, parasites are always present to atta
ck fish. In a healthy situation a fish’s
normal immune system will protect it against these attacks.
When your fish becomes “stressed’
its immune system br
eaks down and the ich
parasite is able to make your fish sick.
Just about every fish has been exposed
to the parasite at one time
or another and may be a ca
rrier. There are 3 common
causes of ”stress” for your fish"


__________________
My wife hates my fish room and all the tanks haha!


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## MeganV (Sep 22, 2013)

I dont think you can hold "live food" against that case can you really..?


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## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

I've been keeping fish a long time and live food is not how they become suseptible to ich. Heat, a salt bath, more heat and meds.


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

If food is caught from a pond, the fish may contain, so you should let it stick out at least one day. The life cycle of such ectoparasites requires that the dreamer after 6 - 12 hours to find a new host. Man avoids such hassles.
Nevertheless, each fish has a lot of germs in itself, although not erupt, as long as he feels comfortable.
Temperature increase and malachite green can sometimes (not always) help.


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