# Cycle Help. NitrAte before NitrIte?



## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey everyone.
Just a few quick questions about cycling.
I read quite a bit on "Cycling" but still am not sure about what's going on in my tank.

I have a 55 gallon.
Late Weds night I put about a bottle of Tetra Safe Start in the tank.
Thursday morning I bought 6 Zebra Danios and put them in.

I had and have maintained a PH of around 6.8-7.0 since then.

From what I read, I thought the Ammonia was supposed to show up, then Nitrite, then Nitrate.

But here are the number I've had for the last 3 days.

Put fish in Thursday

Friday:
PH - 7.0
Ammonia - .6ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - Didn't test

Saturday
PH - 7.0
Ammonia - .6ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 2.5

Sunday
PH - 7.0
Ammonia - .7ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 2.5

So is it because there's Nitrate in the tap water maybe?

Also, I didn't really read about Fishless Cycling until after the fact...
So do I need to do a water change to get the Ammonia down?
I read it should be below .25 (Even when first cycling?)

I feel bad if the fish are really suffering... I can do a water change Monday morning.

*thumbsup thanx


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh yeah, I do have about 5-6 live plants in the tank as well if that is consequential. 
And I'm feeding the fish a "pinch" twice a day (Too much?)


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Have you tested your tap water to make certain it doesn't have nitrates in it? If it does, and you have city water...you might want to call the city asap.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

You have 6 small fish in a 55g tank with plants, you should be fine. You might see a slight spike in ammonia, but I would not expect much. Do a small water change ~25% every couple days unless you see a spike, then do a larger change daily. Feed the fish as much as they will eat without flakes settling at the bottom.

With plants the spike may never happen. The plants can use ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates and often come with benefical bacterial all over them if they were immersed (under water). However if some of the leaves start to die, remove them as they will leak nitrate back into the water. Definately check your tap for nitrates. Other than that, did you add any ferts or root tabs? This can contain nitrates that would show up in the test.


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

So you'd suggest a 25% water change right now?
The plants were in water at the fish store, yes.
I think I basically have Anacharis, Java Fern, Wisteria, and Hornwart plants.

I'm just concerned that the .6-.7 Ammonia level is too high.
Will it still cycle fine if you lower that with a water change?


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Just tested the water...

I had:
.6-.7 on Ammonia (It's Lime green if you know the color chart)
6.8 - PH
0 - Nitrite
And now I'm getting 0ppm on NitrAte.

So maybe it was a misreading the other 2 days? Not sure why the Nitrate would go down.

It was orangish-yellow, now it's definitely the 0ppm Yellow.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

The plants are using your nitrates as they take root and start to grow, that is normal in a planted tank...which is why you can overstock a healthy planted tank.

I would keep ammonia as low as possible with partial water changes or add something like Prime from Seakem which detoxifies the ammonia. Your fish will continue to make more and as long as they are not breathing at the top or scratching, your not in any immediate danger.


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Dmaaaaax said:


> The plants are using your nitrates as they take root and start to grow, that is normal in a planted tank...which is why you can overstock a healthy planted tank.
> 
> I would keep ammonia as low as possible with partial water changes or add something like Prime from Seakem which detoxifies the ammonia. Your fish will continue to make more and as long as they are not breathing at the top or scratching, your not in any immediate danger.


Thanks for the replies.
I ended up doing about a 15% water change.

What do you mean by scratching?
As far as breathing at the top, they're just kind of racing around the tank chasing each other kind of, and they'll go from swimming around the bottom for like 20 seconds and then go up, come back down...

It's hard to tell. lol


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Adding chemicals will delay the cycle completion. On the first couple of nitrate readings how long did you wait before comparing to the color chart? The directions say 5min and I have noticed that if you go as little as 10min, the color will darken significantly.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

Scratching is commonly seen with ick. A fish tries to scatch it's gills and body against a plant, driftwood, or rock. The more technical term is called flashing, since the movement looks like a flash as it flips sideways and you see more shimmer from the scales.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

The ammonia->nitrIte->nitrates cycle is due to anaerobic bacteria.

Live plants prefer to consume ammonia directly and nitrates as a second choice. 

So a normal planted cycle is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, some initial nitrates. Then as more and more bacterial build and consume the ammonia, the plants start consumeing nitrates. So after a few weeks nitrates drop down.


Also I would not add chemicals to adjust pH. Plants consume carbon dioxide which raises pH. In my planted tanks even with peat moss in the substrate, pH rises to 8.4-8.8 on the api high range test kit. Danios, neon tetras, hachetfish and other that "need" a ph of 7 or lower live for years in the environment. After all it could hardly be detrimental to the fish if all that is happening is the plants are removing carbon dioxide and returning oxygen.


my .02


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## jclee (Aug 17, 2010)

If it was only the first reading that was off, then it might have been a faulty test reading. If you don't follow the nitrate test directions exactly (shaking the bottles for set amounts of time) they can give faulty readings.

I'd test the tapwater, just to be safe. Let it sit out for a day to gas out the chlorine and stabilize before you test it, though.

Plants can consume ammonia/ammonium and nitrates and nitrites, but how much this affects readings depends on how many fish (and food and poop) you have in proportion to the number of plants in the tank. 

Daily changes if/when you have ammonia and/or nitrite are a good idea. The fish will thank you for it.


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Updates...
The Ammonia appears to be going down, probably from water changes.
It's around a .3 maybe.

And now the Nitrite levels are detectable. Not much there, but it's definitely not the same as it had been for about a week.

Maybe like a .15ppm on the Nitrite.

So I guess it's beginning to Cycle?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It's been cycling all along. It is now moving to the next phase.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

kaylak68y said:


> So you'd suggest a 25% water change right now?
> The plants were in water at the fish store, yes.
> I think I basically have *Anacharis, Java Fern, Wisteria, and Hornwart plants*.
> 
> ...


Those are excellent plants for establishing a new tank.

I would not add any food until the nitrItes drop down to 0. Usually a matter of a few days. What I do is not add food for a week after the first fish are added. 

That is not starving the fish as they get plenty of food from the plants and can go for weeks with no added food anyway. But by no adding food the plants keep the spikes down.


my .02


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## kaylak68y (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks.
I'm really liking the plants. They're growing like crazy, especially the Anacharis. I almost need to trim it...

Today I basically had 0ppm on Ammonia, and then when I test the NitrIte it was 0ppm.

The 6 Zebras have been in for a week today. You think I can add a few more fish?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

kaylak68y said:


> Thanks.
> I'm really liking the plants. They're growing like crazy, especially the Anacharis. I almost need to trim it...
> 
> Today I basically had 0ppm on Ammonia, and then when I test the NitrIte it was 0ppm.
> ...


I think on a 55g you can add some more fish. I have found peat moss is necessary on my tanks anyway to keep neon tetras.

Just remember to feed very lightly, let the plants continue growing. That way everything will remain in balance.

If you get cloudiness kill the lights and stop adding food for a few days.

Keep your cool, go slow, and in a few weeks nitrates should drop down. At that point the aerobic bacteria has build up and are consuming the ammonia with the plants then consumeing the nitrates.


my .02


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