# Emaciated Fish.



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi everyone, iv'e just come from a neighbours house and seen what i think is a really sick fish.
I saw their tank only a couple of weeks ago and the fish looked perfectly okay but tonight one of her Orandas (Black moor) which is about three inches has completely changed.
It looks emaciated but it is eating, it's lost a lot of colour (it was really black) and it's not as active as the other two, only when she put some food in while I was there.There was nothing to see on the body at all and no rapid gill movement or flicking.

The water is testing A1
Not seen a fish change so quickly as this before and I haven't got a clue what this could be.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
goldie.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Do you know what color it's poop is? could be internal parasites?


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Manafel said:


> Do you know what color it's poop is? could be internal parasites?


 I asked her that and she said it looked like the others,in other words normal but if it was internal parasite what colout would the poop be? and also would you know what to treat it with?She hasn't had fish very long so it's possible she could have missed this. Would it matter if the tank was treated for as you say internal parasites because i just coudn't see anything else amiss but it didn't look the same fish as i saw last time.
This has happened over such a short period of time do you know if the fish could be saved if it was treated.also i'm feeling it's worth trying a treatment for this so do you know what the best treament would be?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

A sign of internal parasites would be white or clearish stringy poo.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

There are four possibilities I can think of:
a) a bacterial problem (tell her to wear gloves if she has cuts on her hands and she is dealing with the water). In that case, the fish is a goner, as something in the environment or a weakness in the fish allowed the bacteria to get the upper hand, and the fish is dying of an infection;
b) a parasitic problem, probably intestinal worms, easily treated if identified (but the treatment won't help if it is bacterial, and it isn't cheap - a praziquantel based medication);
c) a basic body breakdown due to a tumour or a congenital problem - common enough in highly inbred fancy type goldfish;
d) a lack of water changes or a too small aquarium creating environmental stress. Test kits are very limited in what they measure, and larger goldfish family fish do best with about half their water changed weekly.

The problem is that you can't be sure what it is. An anti parasitic med is a stress, and if the problem is stress and not tapeworms, what do you accomplish? The possibilities are very different. Ditto for an antibacterial treatment, etc. Most stores will sell you a remedy, but it's not for your fish, it's for their cash register.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

navigator black said:


> There are four possibilities I can think of:
> a) a bacterial problem (tell her to wear gloves if she has cuts on her hands and she is dealing with the water). In that case, the fish is a goner, as something in the environment or a weakness in the fish allowed the bacteria to get the upper hand, and the fish is dying of an infection;
> b) a parasitic problem, probably intestinal worms, easily treated if identified (but the treatment won't help if it is bacterial, and it isn't cheap - a praziquantel based medication);
> c) a basic body breakdown due to a tumour or a congenital problem - common enough in highly inbred fancy type goldfish;
> ...


I really don't feel it's stress because the fishtank was left at this house for her when they moved in and it holds about 90 gallons ,plus the three orandas never bother each other.It's a well matured tank because they did a fishless cycle in it for about three months and they've had the fish for five months.
I had read your post earlier and rang them telling them what you had all said .

I think they really went on a poo-watch then because they did see like a piece of white cotton trailing from it so her hubby went and got waterlife Octozin which is now in the tank. Whether this has any Praziquantil in it iv'e no idea but it didn't show on the bottle at all,also whether it's at all effective no idea again.
The fish is still much slower than the other two but it's still very keen for food

btw I did mean to say the fish has turned from a 'very black' to almost bronze in places and i know this is not uncommon?? but it's the extreme weight loss and slowing down that was /is the worry about this

Thanks for all the info and here's hoping it will be alright


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I've heard that is it normal for a goldfish to change colors, but not sure about them changing when they are already adults. hope everything urns out ok.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not a goldie guy, but I have seen colour changes, more or less at random. The conditions sound good, and from what you say, I agree it's not stress. I hope the antiparasite drug works.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

navigator black said:


> I'm not a goldie guy, but I have seen colour changes, more or less at random. The conditions sound good, and from what you say, I agree it's not stress. I hope the antiparasite drug works.


Yes me too Manafel and Navigator.

btw Navigator? I meant to say to you,when you said about if she had been putting her hands in the tank and had a cut the fish would be a goner that was another learning point for me because i never wear gloves,i've been heavily salting my hands then rinsing them even going from one tank to another.It sounds as if i could have easily killed my own fish.I won't be doing that again in a hurry.

Gloves added to shopping list


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

The Black Moor died thus evening. I was there and only today did it stop eating,it didn't suffer it just passed away very peacefullg ,such a sbname because it had a great life in a big tank and no hassle.

I asked her if i could look at it and i could'nt see anythong on it at all but, its gills were nearly white. That's the only thing i could see.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It's not that you would kill the fish, it's that the disease _Mycobacter marinum_ could be the killer, and it's a bacteria that we can catch through wounds. It is a serious inconvenience and not much more, but you don't want that.
Your cat can give you dangerous parasites, and your fish are extremely safe by comparison, but _marinum_ is a major pain in the lymphatic system, and does take some time to cure. 
it's always better to be safe than sorry.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for that info Navigator i have got gloves now for each tank .

Going onto the Black Moor my friend didn't mind me looking at the fish and i couldn't see anything outwardly wrong with it. But it had only just passed on while i was there. It wasn't agitated at all but it was showing 'nearly' white under the gills. Shouldn't they have been at least pink if not darker?
In a human i would look upon that as anaemia.

A few years ago i was losing some large Koi also other people were but no new Koi had been added so we called Defra in and they did some autopsies. It turned out to be the Herpes Virus and under their gill plates it was' too 'dark red, almost maroon coloured.
I'm going offtrack here but i keep thinking about the inside of the Blackmoors gills just a few minutes after it died.

What with the emaciation and slowing down but still eating eagerly untill only yesterday have you any idea what this could have been?


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh!I meant to say Navigator that when she got the Blackmoor out of the tank there was a bit of poop that came away from it and i smeared it on the palm of my hand. It was browny coloured but i 'think' it had blood mixed in with it.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

oops I missed one thing. Her hubby got a magnifying glass and saw a minute and it was minute hole in the tail fin, there was nothing around the hole, just a clean hole.
They would have let a Vet do an autopsy on it but there,s no Vets around here that specialise in fish.


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