# Proving wrong some Common Saltwater Knowledge.



## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

Hello everyone, Zeph here from Central Aquatics(The maker and owner of Aqueon, coralife, oceanic, kentmarine, zilla and others.)

Please note, before you start buttclenching, read the entire post first. This for people who dont have the time or the money for some stuff.

First myth: I feel like i should share my knowledge with everyone here. One of the most common things i have seen is the cycling myth for transferring all your live rock, corals and fish when taking down your old tank. All most everyone in the hobby says you need to cycle it first, that is WRONG! Since i work in the R&D Dept. I have taken down countless large reef tanks and put everything into a new tank the same day with a completely new sump system. The trick is you need to have new salt water ready, *NEED RO WATER* along with new crushed coral or argonite sand(we use argonite.) Dump the sand in, then fill it up half way with new water add your LR and corals, add the rest of the water and add fish. DONE! Thats all, no hassling, nothing. Never had a fish or coral die, Doesnt matter how many fish or coral you had in your last tank. 

Second Myth: Your equipment.........*r2 ha. There is only several pieces of equipment you need for a perfect reef, a sump, a skimmer, obviously a light, a heater or a chiller(depends where you live.) 

Thats all we have setup, all the reef tanks have sumps with sock filters, skimmers and thats it. Water is crystal clear. No refugium, just that. 

All of our corals are healthy and huge, we feed them Kent marine chromoplex, phytoplex, zooplex, coral accel along with other products. Im in no way trying to advertise for us but the evidence is clear. in the past six months all of corals have grown from tiny 3 in. frags to over foot and half big monsters. Obviously its not just the what we have been feeding them its also the lights, But i cannot disclose what they because there in the prototype stage atm. next year they will be out in stores(hopefully) But you might want to start saving money because there $2,500 ea.

So yeh, hopefully this will help someone from wasting there time and money on equipment they dont need!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

All this is common knowledge to people who keeps tanks. The only time a tank needs to cycle is when it is first set up and no bacteria is present on the new rock and sand. Argonite sand doesn't contain live sand unless its been seeded. Rocks would have to be fully cured. If you use unseeded sand and rock that isn't fully cured be prepared to cycle.


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

susankat said:


> All this is common knowledge to people who keeps tanks. The only time a tank needs to cycle is when it is first set up and no bacteria is present on the new rock and sand. Argonite sand doesn't contain live sand unless its been seeded. Rocks would have to be fully cured. If you use unseeded sand and rock that isn't fully cured be prepared to cycle.


Yeh Ik, But susan there ARE tons of pages from countless forums that tell the wrong things. I just felt like writing it out. because there is hardly if any that say otherwise.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'd be interested to know the water change schedule and % for the tanks you speak of.Possibly the whole secret is "truely" cured live rock, and water changes on a schedule(fairly regularly,I'll bet?) since you make no mention of "test dictated" water changes.


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> I'd be interested to know the water change schedule and % for the tanks you speak of.Possibly the whole secret is "truely" cured live rock, and water changes on a schedule(fairly regularly,I'll bet?) since you make no mention of "test dictated" water changes.


Lol, the only water changes we do are for freshwater, not salt. We have never done a water change EVER for salt. But new freshwater is added to the salt tanks every other day due to evaporation. its quite humid in the lab, so water evaporates quickly, hence the no need of water changes. But yeh, when i first started here i was asking the same questions. The water is pristine, we got 4 lg. rose bubbletipped anemones in 1 tank. We got ridicoulous amounts of hammercoral, we literally have so much we were giving away lg chunks for free!

Oh i forgot its all RO water!

and no there is no secret, we reuse live rock from other tanks, and our own grown live rock. since our corals grow so fast.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

RO/DI? or just RO?how do you test for TDS ? Success is measured by years, not months.Sound familiar?How long running?Why does kent marine "super DKH" and "Coral Builder" both say raises and matains PH under name?What's the diff? Not hard timming ya, I use both, but label and name seem "misleading" especially to those who are not "professionally"educated on topic?


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> RO/DI? or just RO?how do you test for TDS ? Success is measured by years, not months.Sound familiar?How long running?Why does kent marine "super DKH" and "Coral Builder" both say raises and matains PH under name?What's the diff? Not hard timming ya, I use both, but label and name seem "misleading" especially to those who are not "professionally"educated on topic?


Its plain, RO water. We have 2 large vats for freshwater and saltwater. Now please remember these are NOT my tanks, I care for them, I study them, etc. These are at work not my house. But everything alive in there is mine, sort of. 

Now this lab has been running longer than me or maybe even you have been in the hobby. Its the birthplace of the products you use today,please remember this is the world headquarters. So yes we know what we are doing. 

Now those two kent marine products clearly say what they are, They are sorta the same but if you read the label more closely you will notice the difference the DHK and coral builder do the same thing BUT coral build will have less affect on calcium, magnesium and strontium levels.
Theres your answer.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If you only add "freshwater" what are you doing with salt water vat, besides replacing existing systems with"new"?And Since I use both I think I understand,and know how to read instuctions, so to the point; Which one of the two( super DKH or Coralbuilder) would you "advise use of " to raise kh? I,ve kept salts/corals since 1986,long enough?


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> If you only add "freshwater" what are you doing with salt water vat, besides replacing existing systems with"new"?And Since I use both I think I understand,and know how to read instuctions, so to the point; Which one of the two( super DKH or Coralbuilder) would you "advise use of " to raise kh? I,ve kept salts/corals since 1986,long enough?


I did not come here to fight, i came to give my 2 cents worth of knowledge! But i seem unable to do that when people like you try to test me to see if I know what the hell im talking about. OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD USE DKH

Honestly, I have read them in our cabinet but they've been there for awhile unopened. We have all the Kent Marine products but we really only use Phytoplex, chromaplex, zooplex, coral accell, tech M, basic essentials and a couple others that we rarely use. We dont use any high tech crap, just the stuff i have said before. 

Obviously everyone is going to try to call me out on this because they "think" they know what there talking about and wont try it themselves. Which i dont encourage unless your ridiculously rich or your able to order directly from segrest farms. Which is UNLIKELY because you need to be a store or a facility like us in order to order anything. not just a plain hobbyist.


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

I would agree with your assessment. I have done the same things MANY times in the saltwater hobby, however I do water changes of 20% a month on a 60 gallon tank. Ihave many stony corals and my calcium levels drop woefully low when I don't do them. I have noticed if i don't do the changes the corals stop growing, they still look great they just stop growing so i do the water changes.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Not trying to start fight(happens naturally when people try to explain things they don't completely understand or know how to express).I use the coral builder to raise my KH and was called out on it by another member the other day ,so just trying to clarify the proper component for others.It would appear I don't understand or read test differently(my bad).What's the salt water vat for? I use kent products so really not trying to start fight or give product bad name,just thought maybe I'd get solid info(my bad).


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

I do agree with doing water changes but in the lab we dont do them because of evaporation, which means we dont need to use so many chemical additives to the tank because its in the system permanently (i think). But still we use them...rarely.

The salt water vat is for, well, saltwater. The RO system directly fills the The fw vat and then we open a valve to fill the saltwater vat. Once the salt vat is filled we use a refractometer to check salinity.


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

im actually heading over to work right now, the lobby tank has sprung a leak! I will try to get some pics with camera tonight of our tanks. You guys are going to be amazed at the 125 planted tank i set up yesterday!!


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## tike (Nov 10, 2008)

Good deal!!!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

All this from a person who thinks his algae is an unidentified alien creature. Sorry but I don't buy into what every he says.

Also you need to check with Tom about using a company logo on here as that is a way of advertising and to advertise you must become a sponsor.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

has he said what they do with salt water vat yet(besides re-fill leaking tanks{ya real sucessful and full of knowledge})?


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## zephspacer (Jul 29, 2011)

susan, for the last time that was not algae. it was a cnidarian, I took it in and had it checked out. It was some species of hydra. LIKE I SAID IT WAS. I just gave up on that thread because everyone had a bristle worm stuck up there arse and was too stubborn to say otherwise. Again, this is now anther reason why i didnt come back to this site for a while because every one is an ***.

And yes if you can read i did respond about the vat.
Pictures will be up tmw.

and the leak was from the sump, its a 7 year old sump, which was a non passed prototype. the tank wasnt leaking.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The salt water vat is for, well, saltwater. The RO system directly fills the The fw vat and then we open a valve to fill the saltwater vat. Once the salt vat is filled we use a refractometer to check salinity.[/QUOTE]

The only water changes we do are for freshwater,not salt.We have never done a water change EVER for salt.[/QUOTE]
I read but still wonder what you do after checking salinity(like do you use it and how?) with no salt water changes it seems a waste of ro and salt.I never owned a refractometer, went right to digital for accurate results,and after testing I used my water to change out old with the new.You just test and?No water changes ever? "New" tanks every week instead?(that would be a 100% water change). And now on to replacing evap;Evaporation is similiar to distilling with the opposite result(as all the crap is left in the tank and the pure water is gone).Adding "new" water is obiviously necessary but none of the waste or tds ever leave tank , they only keep accumilating,to greater and greater levels,they can't go down .


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Jim you had more than one thread on a couple of different subject matters. And yes there was one with algae.

Talking to this person is like talking to a brick wall. You will never convince him any differernt. 

As I said about your avatar. You wanna use it, become a sponsor.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

For a fun read here is his thread about algae that he swears isn't algae. He never showed the jar or anything else to prove otherwise.

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f5/mystery-nuisance-organism-24763-post148336.html#post148336


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

zephspacer said:


> I did not come here to fight, i came to give my 2 cents worth of knowledge! But i seem unable to do that when people like you try to test me to see if I know what the hell im talking about. OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD USE DKH


Upon further reading(the directions on jar);Kent Marine Coral Builder raises alkalinity or carbonate hardness(kh),stabilizes pH, and prevents pH drop in marine reef aquarium systems.Will not increase pH and is specially formulated to have minimal impact on calcium,magnesium,or strontium levels.
Kent Superbuffer DKH;Designed to raise and stabilize pH,prevent pH drop and build kh(carbonate hardness).
I and several people I know found the results of using Superbuffer DKH to do anything besides raise pH was futil.(Possibly the name misleads more than helps{or just sells it})
We all also agreed that Coral builder was the prefered method to raise KH.
I guess if you don't know it's little wonder that aquarium keepers can find this a little confusing.
You are correct about the coral builder calcium,magnesium,strontium thing.
Although rarely well received I'll offer one more piece of advice;whether you(your employer)becomes a sponsor I would be more careful with response(the attitude of) when you claim to "represent" a business.I own my business (for over 10 years now) and the people who work with me know that personal opinion and attitude have NO PLACE in conversations with customers.You speak to represent a larger entity than your self and if questions come you don't know the answer to or seem "challenging", the truth or a reference to someone who can answer the question is always best.I speak to enlighten,explain and encourage my customers otherwise they probably wouldn't be "my customers".I made it clear several times I use Kent products ,and seeked info from someone who said they worked for and understood(good enough to dispell myths") but got attitude and as far as I'm cocerned INCORRECT INFO.No sale here.I question whether these products deserve my continued "support"($).I wonder what your boss would think of this?
THANKS!


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