# Hi Nitrite Question



## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

So my 60 Gal FW Community tank, is about 5 weeks today. When we set up the aquarium the clerk at LFS told us not to waste money on test strips. Just bring in samples and he would test my water for free. Well he told me we had Hard water and High PH and sold us a PH buffer, which we use. Everytime we have brought in a sample he has told us we had high PH. We I decided to buy some 5 in 1 test strips at my local walmart. The brand is Jungle Pet care products. So I did the test according to the instructions and came up with hi Nitrites and my ph tested somewhere in between 7.2 and 7.5. So my question, is that considered Hi PH? The Nitrites where in the unsafe level so, I read 25% water change. This would be my first water change does that sound about right? Is there anything else I should do to help with the Nitrites?

2 whisper 60 Back pack filters
3 tetras
2 mollies
3 golden barbs
3 cherry barbs
5 Hi Fin Danios
3 Blue Gouramis
3 Platy's
thanks for the help


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

BTW I also tested the tap water and it test soft and low PH. I think the guy at the LFS was just tring to get an extra sale


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The presence of high nitrite indicates that cycling has not been completed yet. Once cycling is complete nitrites should be near zero. Cycling should never be started with lots of fish, 2 or 3 is better. A high ph would be above 7.8. A high ph is very common in salt water and large lakes in arid areas. Lots of fish like a high ph, including Livebearers and Rift Valley Cichlids. Any of the Tetras, Rasboras, Corys and South American Cichlids don't.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Welcome to the wonderful world of aquarium husbandry.

High nitrites after 5 weeks seems odd, but in any event I would re-test and make sure you get the same results. If you indeed have high nitrites, you need to start doing daily 50% partial water changes to try and reduce the level. Try and aim for 1 ppm or less of nitrite. Are you sure you're not confusing nitrIte with nitrAte?

You've also run into one of our usual complaints - pet store clerks who have no idea what they're talking about. A pH between 7 and 8 is ideal for an aquarium. Stop the phosphate dosing immediately and throw that stuff out - it doesn't fix the problem and instead elevates the phosphate levels in your tank, which can be detrimental to the health of your fish and any plants you have in there as well.

I would seriously consider buying a liquid titration test kit as opposed to the test strips. Test strips are quick and usually suffice, but they are highly inaccurate and you can go through a bottle of strips in no time flat. Liquid test kits are more accurate and last a LOT longer (1 kit can last for 100 tests or more). They are, however, a little more involved to use. I personally use and love the API Master Freshwater Test Kit, $35 at PetsMart. It's good for 200 tests, is accurate on pH to within 0.2 degrees and ammonia and nitrite to within 0.2 ppm.

Just my thoughts


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

So I retested and I noticed that the colors on the test strips actually match the colors on the Saltwater side of the test chart almost exactly. I wonder if since I added aquarium salt which the same LPS guy recommended. 1 tablespoon per 5 gal so I added 12 tablespoons of salt on setup. Is that why my results better match the salt water side? either way still hi nitrites


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe. I've never heard of that, but I know salt water tanks have a much higher salinity than I think you are encountering.


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

ok I was just wondering, it doesn't change anything. thanks for all the help I will do the water change and buy the better quality API test kit and check it that way. thanks for all the help


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Surprised you haven't experienced fish deaths with nitrites that high. Most of those fish won't tolerate it for too long though. What surprises me even more is that you have not done a water change since the tank has been running. If you plan to continue to keep that many fish and for them to stay healthy, you need to start doing 25-35% weekly water changes minimum and more when the situaton dictates. This is normal maintenance after the cycle is complete. Right now daily 50% is required.

Are you able to test for nitrates?


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

see thats the thing I was going based on what the guy at the LFS told me. He said wait 45 days before my first water change and like 2 months for first filter change. I was going based on that. I have lost 1 fish molly last week. I just did a 50% water change and as I was doing it I was reading the packaging from my water conditioner (Prime) and it says it also Detoxifies Nitrites as well. I just did another test, and according to these test strips.
Nitrate 20
Nitrite Between 1.0 and 3.0
Hardness 75(soft)
Alkalinity 120
PH 7.5 
Will test again in a little while


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds like things are back under control. I would do a 25% PWC tomorrow to bring down your nitrites a little more. Prime is a great water conditioner, though I do not use it so I'm not familiar with its strengths and weaknesses.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Galvatron898 said:


> see thats the thing I was going based on what the guy at the LFS told me. He said wait 45 days before my first water change and like 2 months for first filter change. I was going based on that. I have lost 1 fish molly last week. I just did a 50% water change and as I was doing it I was reading the packaging from my water conditioner (Prime) and it says it also Detoxifies Nitrites as well. I just did another test, and according to these test strips.
> Nitrate 20
> Nitrite Between 1.0 and 3.0
> Hardness 75(soft)
> ...


He is of the mindset to "save the cycle" and sacrifice the fish. You have to shift to "save the fish" mode unless you want them to die. Water changes change the timeline of your cycle a little and extend it somewhat. But, in the end you could still have all the fish you started with.


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

Im in a "new to this stuff and hoping to get better advice then the guy at LFS" Mindset. I will continue to do the water changes and buy a better quality test kit and hope that I don't loose any more fish.


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## Magoo (Mar 15, 2011)

When cycling a tank the nitrites go up b/c of one type of bacteria breaking down the ammonia in the tank. It then takes another type of bacteria to then convert that nitrite to the less harmful nitrate. You don't want to do such huge water changes as "50%" because then you are removing too much of the bacterial base. It is better instead to change only 10% of your water, but to do it everyday. Adding aquarium salt helps lessen the toxicity of the nitrite. The other way to lower it is to add a boost of bacteria from a product like Stress Zyme.


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks I have salt and I will look into the stress zyme


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Magoo said:


> You don't want to do such huge water changes as "50%" because then you are removing too much of the bacterial base. It is better instead to change only 10% of your water, but to do it everyday. .


As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong!, but the bacterial filter is mainly on/in the gravel, walls of the tank, filter, etc. It grows on everything but not as much in the water so when you have nitrites that high and ammonia, you have to change out that much or you set yourself up for a fish kill. 10% a day, in my opinion, would only keep the ammonia/nitrites in the status quo (because the fish excrete more every day, and you're only taking out what they just put in) and not get the overall percentages down enough to make a difference in their health. But hey, I'm considered a newbie around here so I must defer to all you old fish forum folks! *old dude

For what it's worth, I swear by Nite-Out. I know bacterial additives have their fans and enemies on our forum, but I personally wouldn't cycle a tank without it. Good luck to you!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Niki7 said:


> As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong!, but the bacterial filter is mainly on/in the gravel, walls of the tank, filter, etc. It grows on everything but not as much in the water so when you have nitrites that high and ammonia, you have to change out that much or you set yourself up for a fish kill. 10% a day, in my opinion, would only keep the ammonia/nitrites in the status quo (because the fish excrete more every day, and you're only taking out what they just put in) and not get the overall percentages down enough to make a difference in their health. But hey, I'm considered a newbie around here so I must defer to all you old fish forum folks! *old dude
> 
> For what it's worth, I swear by Nite-Out. I know bacterial additives have their fans and enemies on our forum, but I personally wouldn't cycle a tank without it. Good luck to you!


You're right. The amount of water change depends on just how high the nitrites are. If you want the fish to survive you do what's necessary to ensure it. In this instance, you have to forget about impact to the cycle and save the fish. It doesn't delay the whole process a great deal. 10% a day will take 4-5 days to knock down a nitrite reading of 4-5 and in that time may have already wiped out whatever fish you may have had. Again, sacrifice the cycle to save the fish. The cycle will still complete, but with the fish you started with instead of without.


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## Magoo (Mar 15, 2011)

Saving the fish is the priority. I just feel you could do it while saving the cycle too. I have done it myself and it worked out great. The nitrite's toxicity it cut down with the use of the aquarium salt. I've done those huge water changes before and all it did was add stress to the fish which was the last thing they needed. The bacteria definately seemed to knock out the nitrite faster too. Again....this is just in my experience.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Salt will not lower the nitrite. It is different if it is a spike, but this is cycling not normal maintenance or normal nitirte levels. 

Large water changes, as long as they are kept at 50% or below, are not as stressful to fish as people think. Most of the planted tank crowd are doing 50% weekly and not having trouble. Many people go well beyond that.


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## Magoo (Mar 15, 2011)

I didn't say the salt would lower the nitrite level. I said it lowers the toxic effects of it. I'm also just cautious about doing the big water changes with sick fish. In my experience it just hasn't worked. To each their own though. I am curious though why you would need to do such a big water change weekly. I am just starting to explore the world of freshwater plants myself.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

If you have a planted tank, the 50% water change is to reset the parameters of the ferts you add.

That much of a water change shouldn't stress the fish if the temp is the same and its dechlorinated and add back slowly. I have tanks I do 90% water changes with no ill effects.

After a tank is cycled you can test your nitrates and base the size of your water changes to it. If your nitrates are 50% and you do a 25% water change your nitrates should go down by 1/4th. A 50% water change will cut the nitrates in 1/2.

To help your cycle and fish, toss in a bunch of fast growing plants like hornwort or water sprite. Just let them float. They will help take up the nitrites during the cycle and make it easy on the fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Magoo said:


> I didn't say the salt would lower the nitrite level. I said it lowers the toxic effects of it. I'm also just cautious about doing the big water changes with sick fish. In my experience it just hasn't worked. To each their own though. I am curious though why you would need to do such a big water change weekly. I am just starting to explore the world of freshwater plants myself.


I understood what you said and wasn't debating. I have never heard that before and maybe need to research that myself. My point was, at what point do you determine how toxic the nitrites are based on putting salt in? If you add a teaspoon per gallon is a 5ppm of nitrite now like 2.5ppm on toxicity? If the nitrites are present, I'm guessing there is no real way to determine what the actual effect the salt is having? So really the only safe thing to do is lower them by doing a water change.

I was doing 50% even before my tanks were planted and required it for the reasons susan posted. I am just a believer in the more fresh water in a tank the better. Ever notice how your fish get all excited after a water change? I actually believe it tells you something.


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## Magoo (Mar 15, 2011)

When I have had hi nitrite levels I have noticed how my fish act. They breathe rapidly and swim with clamped fins. After I add the salt they don't act like that anymore. That's how I know how effective the salt is at lowering the toxicity of the nitrite. That information can be found simply by reading the dosage instructions on a carton of API's aquairum salt.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The salt causes the fish to produce more of a slime coat to help protect them. Thats how salt helps with the nitrites.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

susankat said:


> The salt causes the fish to produce more of a slime coat to help protect them. Thats how salt helps with the nitrites.


Susan, does it help with gill function too, or no?


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

Well in the end I have done a little bit of everything. I have used API Aquarium salt following dosage on the packaging. I am not sure how I feel about the water change debate because both sides make sense to me so Sometimes I have done 25% changes and sometimes 50%. I just tested and my Nitrates are rising and my Nitrites are in the .5 to 1.o range so they are finally lowering and I believe everyone is almost out of danger and cycling is almost complete. I will continue to do my water changes every other day till all levels are good. BTW as far as I can tell my fish have not see to show any signs of stress, I mean besides the obvious of my 2 mollies dying. I just built a Canopy and it came out real nice! I will paint it this weekend and once im done I will start thinking about my next tank.  I'm thinking a 29 to 40ish gal tank for my bedroom. With that tank I'll look into that Nite-out stuff Thanks for all the help and input on this topic


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Awesome! Post pics when you're done with the canopy, sounds great! Congrats on cycling your tank 

When you're ready you can get info on Nite Out II from Big Al's which quite a lot of folks seem to use for supplies. I have used them too. I also got it once on eBay believe it or not.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Niki7 said:


> Susan, does it help with gill function too, or no?


It does to an extent.


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## Galvatron898 (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks Niki!


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