# Help!



## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi.

This morning while I was looking at those beautiful fishes of mine, I realised that one of the fishes had white spots! Was so horrified. When I came back from school, I separated it from the others. I've read that it may be ich infection or something like that. I'm so worried. I read that adding salt into the tank can kill parasites. Problem now is, I was so worried that the main tank will be infected so I added into the main tank as well. Then I continue my research on the diseases. TO MY HORROR, I added ionized salt which I just read that I was not supposed to. What am I gonna do now?


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

I would do at least an 80% water change right away. Then do 20% water change the next couple of days. Remove the carbon from the filter and continue with the salt treatment using the correct salt.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Also, treating an individual fish for ich is not the preferred method. Treat the whole tank.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Iodized salt isn't going to cause that much trouble. No need to panic. I would not do a greater than 50% water change because that is going to stress your fish. Kosher salt is an easy to find perfectly safe alternative that you can usually find in the grocery store. Its also cheaper than "aquarium salt". Some grocery stores also have "non-iodized salt". You don't need fancy, just salt. 

About ich: it looks like grains of salt. it is actually a little organism that is under your fish's skin. It is traveling around underneath there feeding and doing damage. Yep, pretty awful. When the under-the-skin stage is mature it breaks out from under the skin leaving a tiny open wound and forms a little dormant form that drops to the bottom. (Open wound = melafix or stress coat or something to help heal those little open wounds & avoid secondary infections) The little dormant guy hatches out in hundreds or thousands of invisible swimmers that go looking for fish to infect. When they find a fish, they burrow under the skin and form those white spots. The trouble is the only stage you can really kill is the swimmers, once the ich organism is under the skin, or when it is dormant on the bottom it is invulnerable to most treatments, so what you do is you crank up the heat in your tank to 86 (or as high as your fish can stand) to speed up the life cycle of the ich, and you treat the tank with salt (anybody remember exactly how much salt per gallon?) the salt will kill the ich, the high heat will also help kill the ich, and if you can find it, things like quick cure can help a great deal as well. You're going to need to keep treating even after all the spots disappear, because even after all the little creatures under your fish's skin have dropped off, they will still be on the bottom of the tank, you will need to keep up the fight until all the dormant guys on the bottom have hatched out and you have killed all the swimmers before they can reinfect your fish, officially 3-4 days after the last spot disappears, but I'd keep it up for up to a week to be safe, 'cause I'm paranoid when it comes to ich. Hate stuff I can't see.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm not sure if it's ich ): and the other fishes seem to have chipped fins. Is it due to bullying?


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

What fish do you have, how long have you had them? It's possible it should be fin rot, which is treatable.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

They are neon tetras. Had them for about 4 months. I'm so worried. I don't know much about heaters and treatments...


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## mec102778 (Feb 17, 2011)

Post a picture if you can, this way the more knowledable fish people here can review and comment.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

This is one of them. Hope you can see.







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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

J-Pond said:


> I would do at least an 80% water change right away. Then do 20% water change the next couple of days. Remove the carbon from the filter and continue with the salt treatment using the correct salt.


I would advise against an 80% water change - too drastic of a water change can shock your fish with things like pH and temperature shifts, amongst other things. Most of us on the forum recommend 50% as the maximum amount of water to change in one sitting (usually per day). However, I do suggest a 50% PWC immediately, along with an elevated temperature (82-86 degrees Fahrenheit), and some API Aquarium Salt (read the box for exact dosing instructions). Don't dose table salt or anything like that unless you REALLY know what you're doing, as you may add chemicals present in table salt that you might not want in your tank.

White spots on your fish sound like Ich to me. I just dealt with an outbreak myself - white bubble/spot-looking growths on the fish's body. I turned off my filter, stuck an emergency air bubble column in the water, cranked the temp as far as it would go (84 degrees), added aquarium salt daily, and dosed anti-Ich meds. My fish are all fine now.

If you could test your water and post your water parameters, it would help all of us diagnose further.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Evan said:


> I'm not sure if it's ich ): and the other fishes seem to have chipped fins. Is it due to bullying?


Chipped fins is a sign of fin rot, which is indicative of poor water quality. A 50% PWC should fix this problem as well. Are you adding tap water dechlorinator/conditioner to your water as it fills buckets out of the tap?


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## rutwyler (Feb 17, 2011)

I read else where on the inter-web that when using aquarium salt, work your way up to .3% salinity (3 teaspoons per gallon) over the course of 1.5-2 days. Gradually bring up the temperature to around 80ºF(i'm assuming the same time frame). And that this usually is all that is needed to kill off Ich. I also read that Formalin and Malachite Green don't mix well with salt. Is this the general consensus of the knowledgeable's here? I seem to remember that Formalin and Malachite Green are copper variants and bad for plants as well as Ich. Is that also true?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Didn't know about incompatibility of ich meds and salt, but I did know that they are bad for plants and invertebrates. Thanks for the info. I'll have to read up more on the salt-meds issue.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

The fins do look a little rough, but I don't see any spots in your picture.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm from Singapore and sad to say, we don't really have the habit to do much of water testing and I don't have much knowledge about it... Is it possible if you can tell me more about improving water and what equipment is needed?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A temp of 80F does nothing for ich except to ensure the ich cycle lasts about 4 days. Temps of 89-90 are needed to kill the ich protozoa, if temp alone is used.

I agree that the fins look a little rough but that doesn't look anything like fin rot - that I have seen anyway. Fin rot looks more like the fins are melting away. Many species of Tetras look like they have rough fins to me. I don't see any spots.

Also, if you decide to treat with any type of meds you'll need to reduce the dose in half, but treat for twice as long. Tetras and scaless fish do not stand up very well to full dosing of medications.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Evan said:


> I'm from Singapore and sad to say, we don't really have the habit to do much of water testing and I don't have much knowledge about it... Is it possible if you can tell me more about improving water and what equipment is needed?


See if you can find an API freshwater master test kit. One of your local stores should carry or you may be able to find online that will ship to you. You'll be able to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph with this kit.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

Some of the fishes have like a single white dot on the lower fins.. And is that supposed to be normal too?


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

If you see something that is symmetrical, and/or repeated in the exact same place on lots of the fish of that kind, it is worth suspecting that the spots may be a reproductive display or something, like sometimes people think their goldfish have ich 'cause they get dots on their gill covers, but it really is just the males signaling breeding condition. Ich is more like a rash, disorganized and spreading, like if somebody shook salt on them. 

Beat up fins is really more likely to be poor condition than fin rot from the sound and look of them, and more likely to be high ammonia or other water problems than a fin rot, although fin damage (ammonia burns or other wounds) can lead to fin rot as a secondary infection once the skin has those breaks in it. That's why it is important to keep the water condition very nice, 'cause any time the ammonia gets high enough it can cause burns on the skin and gills and open a path to infection or parasites getting to your fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Very hard to see ich in cardinal/neon tetras. They just don't seem to get it in the body like most fish do and the fins are nearly clear or opaque and difficult to tell. If just one had one spot on its fin I would let it ride and see if it spreads or gets worse.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks so much! I learned so much from all of you  I'll check my water condition asap.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

How big is your tank and how many fish do you have? Also what filter do you have and are there live plants in the tank? What water changes do you do? These will all have an effect on your water quality and we might be able to point out where you can improve if that is the problem.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

My tank is about 7 gal minus the height of the stones approx 5.5 gal. I have 3 live plants. Filter.. I don't really know what kind I use. Approx 56 fishes. I use to do 50% change of water but now I try to change about 25%.

They have worsen and they have ich symptoms. ):


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

56 fish in a 7gal tank? Kidding right?


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## peteyboyny (Oct 18, 2010)

i just went through a case of ICH in my tank not too long ago. I keep plants and inverts, as well as Rams. Soooo, my dosing choices were kinda slim. I raised the temp in my tank SLOWLY (2 days) from 78 deg F, to 85 deg F. Left the temp there for 4 days. NO MORE ICH.


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## peteyboyny (Oct 18, 2010)

oh, then I slowly brought the temp back down (another 2 days).


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Evan said:


> My tank is about 7 gal minus the height of the stones approx 5.5 gal. I have 3 live plants. Filter.. I don't really know what kind I use. Approx 56 fishes. I use to do 50% change of water but now I try to change about 25%.


If this is the case it explains all your problems. Such heavy crowding will cause water quality problems and disease. I would not recommend more than 5 or 6 neon tetras in your tank. With a heavily planted tank and very good filter and 2x weekly 50% water changes 20 neons could probably be maintained well enough but that would go against the advice of most and would only be a good idea for someone with experience in fish keeping.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If the tank is that small and there are that many fish, it surprises me that oxygen levels are adequate.


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## Evan (Feb 22, 2011)

OMG! So serious? My gosh... I try my best to cure ): Thanks guys.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I think the best thing you can do is to treat for the ich with salt and heat for now and when you are done see how many survive and if you need to upgrade your tank size or re-homing some fish. 

Are you running bubbles? If not a small air pump and an air stone are not very expensive and will help to make up for the depleted oxygen from salt and high temp and the agitation makes it harder for the ich parasites to swim.

large water changes every couple of days would also be a good idea to improve water quality and remove some of the free swimming parasites.


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