# Suggestions?



## TonyaPatrick1985

My husband and I are getting back into the freshwater aquarium hobby after years of being out of it. We have a 29 gallon tank with a good filter, heater and lcd lights. They have day and night light settings which our lone goldfish (for the moment) seems to like.

What I need to know is: Are goldfishs compatible with plecos? Its either that or get a magnetic tank cleaner. Also, which fancy goldfish are compatible with regular ones? I dont want a fish to get picked on because it swims slowly. What other fishes are compatible with goldfish in general? I am waiting on a good introductory book to come in the mail - it should actually come to us today. We have a nice tank stand arriving either this week or next week. 

We have some plant bulbs just starting to sprout and a single sunken ship hideaway. What plants are recommended, what hideaways do the fish seem to like? Any suggestions you have are most welcome. We are going to a local store this weekend that has been in business for 30+ years. And, I just need to know what all we need to purchase!

Thank-you for your help!

Tonya Patrick


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## chenowethpm

Plecos are tropical fish, goldfish aren't. And both get bigger than a 29 can hold.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Okay. We are only planning on having two gold fish in our tank. We don't want it to be heavily populated. What then would you recommend as the best way to keep the tank clean of algae?


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## coralbandit

Lighting is the main cause of algae.How long are your lights on,and what kind of light are you using.
A good starting point for lighting is 6-8 hours a day.
Although most goldfish will eat plants,some live plants may help to remove some of the nitrients that help algae.
Waterchanges;how often do you change water and how much.
As a ball park many here just change 50% a week,but if you have an accurate test kit you let your nitrate readings guide you in this.The amount of water changed(%) will be how much you lower the nitrates.An example would be 30ppm nitrates and a 50% waterchange should yield aprox.15 ppm nitrates.


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## susankat

Recommendations for goldfish is 30 gal for the first one and add 15 gal to each one there after. A pleco can do fine in with goldfish but the tank isn't big enough to handle that much waste since both species are major waste producers. You would end up with a lot of health problems in the tank.


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## Botiadancer

Most people do between 20 and 40 gallons per fancy goldfish. I'm guessing the regular comet style would be at the upper end of that as they are good swimmers. I wouldn't mix the two, as one would get all the food.

Minimal lighting and lots of water changes are the key to no algae. Goldfish will nibble on it a little bit and it does no harm inside a tank. I only clean the front pane of my aquariums and welcome algae growth. (which is probably why I can't grow any!)

Solid Gold on youtube has a wonderful channel on goldfish. Pretty much a video for everything you can think of on goldfish.


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## Big Dog

Welcome to the forum.


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## Fadil13

Welcome! Have Fun!


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## jrman83

Welcome to the site!

Probably not the recommendations you were wanting to hear. Most here that have provided the suggestions have many years of experience. You can take it for what it is worth, which is much more than a person in the store telling you it is fine to go ahead. Just keep in mind these people have little to no experience. This info will give you what is best for not only your fish, but you as well.

Good luck with what you chose.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Well, I thought I would update everyone on what has been happening. I went to an area fish store, that has been in business for 30+ years. I explained the situation to them and I ended up getting a clown pleco and two danio/jelly hybrids. A week hadnt passed and the pleco dies. I am not sure if it was a bad fish. I think maybe that there wasnt enough for him to eat. And, I stupidly forgot to buy algae tablets for him. That reallt had me down as he was so pretty and the clown plecos stay smallish which is good considering the size of my tank.

Well, I got up this morning and the smaller of the danio/jelly hybrids was nowhere to be seen. I looked on the floor to see if it had maybe jumped out when I gave them their evening feeding. I looked all around the tank to see if he was floating...nothing. I woke up my husband (who works thrid shift) and asked him if he had fished him out when get got him. He hadnt. Well, my husband looks this morning and the danio/jelly hybrid was lying dead amidst one of the plants. I am at my wits end of what to do.

We dont have the heater currently plugged in because the store and what I have read have indicated that goldfish and danios are at the colder end of the heat requirements. We are going to take some of our water to be tested this weekend at a different area aquarium store. We are also going to get a thermometer to stick to the outside of the tank so we can monitor that more closely. I am just not sure what to do. I am sorry if I offended anyone by not replying sooner. Work has been crazy busy. But, if anyone has any suggestions for me please, please, please tell me anything you think may be pertinent to my situation. This is kind of my budding hobby and I want to do it the right way 

Thank-you for your time!

-Tonya


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## TonyaPatrick1985

I also meant to mention that my goldfish seems to be sleeping during the day when I have the day lights on. My husband says he is a lot more active when he gets home while we have the night lights on. Is that weird at all?

We have the day lights on for a max of 8 hours as has been suggested.


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## coralbandit

I would just a do a decent sized water change.50% is best.You can still have your water tested later and know where the tank WAS/is at since 50% should remove half the nutrients.
I would geuss that the additional fish may have caused an ammonia spike as the beneficial bacteria need time to grow with the increased bio load.
The danios are cool water fish so temp shouldn't have been an issue for them IMO.
Maybe even the pleco would be alright with temp as many re home them to ponds when they get large.
The pleco needs wood along with the algae wafers as they rasp on the wood which aids in their digestion.
I would get a cheap glass thermometer that floats or has a suction cup for the tank.The stick on ones can sometimes be effected by the rooms temp.
A test kit would really be helpful for you and your fish and may save you money,depending on how many fish will die without one.Knowing if your tank is high on ammonia,nitrites or even nitrates will help you in controlling water quality.With fish in the tank ammonia and nitrite should not go above 1 ppm,so it is important to be able to monitor this while you are still stocking and establishing beneficial bacteria.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Is there a brand of test kit that you would recommend? I was thinking about hopping on Amazon to check and see if they have one. I have prime shipping so it would get here fast. Thank-you for your suggestions btw!


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## chenowethpm

Most here use the API master test kit for freshwater.


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## coralbandit

Most here use the API master liquid kit.You should be able to find it on amazon for around $20,which is way cheaper than most LFS.
Having even one goldfish in a 29g you should get used to 50% water changes as they are known to foul water quickly.Clean fresh water is the best and cheapest thing you can do for your fish and wallet!


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## TonyaPatrick1985

How often should I do 50% water changes? And should I intersperse them with smaller water changes? What frequence should I be doing this?

Also, how often should I be testing my water?


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## coralbandit

You should be doing waterchanges every week IMO.Smaller waterchanges won't improve the quality nearly as much as 1 large one.If you did 10% 5 days a week it would not add up to one 50% change.This is because when you would add the new water(10%) you would be diluting the nutrients you want to remove.If they are diluted then the next day you would not remove the same amount,and so on.
Quick example; 20ppm nitrates with [email protected]%=18ppm,then another 10% =16.2,then next 10%=14.4 then next 10%=13ppm and last 10%=11.7.
If you just cahnged 50% once 20ppm goes to 10ppm.
So it is not huge but it is better,and I think easier to just do 1 larger change.
For testing if you read any ammonia or nitrites then the tank/filter is still cycling and test should be done daily.If you are 0 for ammonia and nitrites then you can just test for nitrates every week or maybe 2x a week to see how fast they accumulate.
Nitrates are the end result of a cycled filter and the only way to remove them is waterchanges which is why most everybody changes weekly.Once your tank is completely stocked and cycled it develope a regular pattern and you will then be able to have a regular maintenance schedule,which may be 1 waterchange a week or might even need to be done 2x a week.
Nitrates ideal level is 20 and under,but getting up to 40 should cause no trouble as long as it is dealt with weekly.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

If the API test kit notes a problem does it include what to do to fix it? I think I went into this a little haphazardly a couple of weeks ago and now I really want to do it right. Thank-you for all the detailled suggestions


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## susankat

Clown plecos require warmer water and don't eat algae, they are wood eaters. If you weren't doing a large water change weekly and just small ones through out the week I would imagine that the ammonia and/or nitrites are quite high. In a 29 gal tank with one goldfish and adding smaller fish I would suggest doing 2 50% water changes a week.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Just Purchased API test kit a floating thermometer (as recommended) and a small mag cleaner for the fish tank. 38.61 on Amazon  Woo-hoo!!


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Wood eaters? Wow! That would make a huge difference as I have no wood in my tank. I have one fake plant, two live plants (which are thriving and growing) and plant bulbs. But no wood. 

The store I got the clown pleco from said it was an algae eater. I made sure to ask because it looked so different from any plecos I had seen before.

Really? 2 50% water changes in one week, every week? At the risk of sounding dumb what kind of containers do you use to empty the water? Will anything do? Also, what if anything do I need to do with the fish when conducting a water change? Do I need to do anything with the gravel at the bottom?

At least if I do a water change this weekend I might be able to motivate my husband to set up the tank stand we got off petco.com.

Thank-you for the suggestions


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## coralbandit

2 times a week is just a geuss.The test kit will tell you how much you need to change.again no matter what the nutrient is(ammonia,nitrite{while cycling} or nitrate{will have forever!})the amount you change is the amount the nutrient will be reduced(% to %).
You could get a "python" or aqueon water changer that will hook up to sink so you never need to carry a bucket,or you could just get a gravel vaccum and a couple 5g buckets.You should vacumm aprox 50% of your gravel each week,or lightly vacumm all every week.
When cleanning filter cartridges(yes clean DO NOT THROW AWAY) just rinse or squeeze them in the bucket of old tank water.Cleanning them in tap water will kill the beneficial bacteria causing to cycle all the time.
If you use the water changer then you will add dechlorinator to the tank in the amount needed FOR ENTIRE TANK VOLUME.If you use buckets you can dechlorinate each bucket.Most here use Seachem prime to dechlorinate.It is the most effeicient and cheapest over the long run.
And yes all plecos need wood!Wood always makes a tank look more natural anyways as an extra added benefit!


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## susankat

I have a breeding group of clown plecos and not one of them will touch any algae, they rasp the wood for food. If there is any algae on the wood they will get that while scraping but don't go looking for algae. Plecos run in different catagories. 

1. Algae eaters
2. carnivores
3. omnivores
4. wood eaters

I raise several species and have found that the one that does the best on algae is farlowella catfish. Also are easy on the plants.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

After talking it over with my husband, who is very supportive of my new hobby, we are going to go out tonight and spend a little over a hundred bucks on an ro water system that we saw at our local pet store. We are concerned as where we live in Tulsa, OK they do have additives to their tap water. In addition, I know a couple of you have mentioned gravel pumps/vacuums. What brand do you all recommend?

I told my husband I felt bad about having to spend so much money on this because it is my "birthday gift". But, his only response was that if we were going to do it at all we are going to do it the right way 

Also, what kind of buckets are appropriate for water changes? Are there any that could be potentially harmful??


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## chenowethpm

Any 5 gallon buckets will do, just get new ones, don't wash with soap, rinse with tap water, and only use those buckets for aquarium water purposes. I'm not sure your tap water would require you to buy an RO water system. And using 100% ro water without adding back some of the minerals is bad and pure ro water lacks the buffers to keep your ph stable. I will be corrected if I'm wrong. The water changer/gravel vacuum,the aqueon system is awesome and you don't need buckets.


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## coralbandit

I wouldn't invest in RO system for a goldfish.They like hard water so at best you could probly only safely use a max of 25% ro with your tap.Most who use RO keep fish that require very soft water or have liquid rock comming out of their taps.If your water is very hard then maybe you'll be ok "cutting"(mixing) the RO with your tap,but I wouldn't think it is necessary.Nor will you get a real good RO from fish stores.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

The water in Tulsa, OK is horrendous. I am barely okay washing my dishes and clothes using the water they have here. To be perfectly honest, the ro wouldnt be for the fish tank entirely. My husband and I are getting sick of buying a $16 water wilter every two months for our own drinking water. We would definitely still be able to cut with tap water though. We would have the ro in the kitchen and still have regular tap in the bathroom.

With that in mind, what ratio should I have for the gold fish? We are thinking the one we have now may die. He has been very lethargic. My husband even called me at work (which he never does) to tell me that. So, will probably invest in a nice bubble eyed gold fish and leave it with the one danio and have that be it. Do you think there would be any room for a pleco as well?

I think it was an aquatic life reverse osmosis system if that helps. If you have a recommendation on that as well we are all ears. I just want to try to support the local store as well, if at all possible.


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## vreugy

I live in Oklahoma, south of you by Lake Eufaula. All the water around here is liquid rock and fish do just fine. There are goldfish and guppies in the river and lake too. All you need alter in your water is the chlorine. You Gold fish will do just fine in your city water if you use a dechlorinator. 

Glad to see some one else in Oklahoma on the site. There is another in Tulsa, but I will let them make themself know to you.

Have a blessed day


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## coralbandit

You will probly go through filters for the ro faster than the ones your using now.So I don't know about the ro system you are looking at ,but I will say check on prices for replacement filters and their availability!Some of these guys are "special made" and may only fit their own filter($$$).I bought my RO/DI from Bulk Reef Supply(BRS) and replacements of filters is cheap($2-10) for most.
Bulk Reverse Osmosis Filters & Systems - Bulk Reef Supply
I go through a lot of the deionosing resin and change first stage filter every 2,000 gallons which may sound like a lot,but RO's make waste water.So if you are wasting 4 gallons for every 1 you get then 2000 gallons is less than 500 gallons of usable water!
Tempature and pressure of water supplied have a lot to do with how effecient ro's are.
The thin film composite(TFC) is the final stage and most expensive($40+) .It should last a couple years,but chlorine,and low pressure will kill them much quicker.
Can't say what the mix yyou could do is till we know your taps ; pH,gH,kH.
If the goldfish looks ill I would do 50% water change x2 or atleast one today and one tomorrow.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Okay, if a dechlorinator is all I really need then maybe I should just go for that. Is there a specific brand that is better than any others? Also, as far as gravel pumps/vacuums do you have any recommendations?


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## coralbandit

Seachems PRIME is the best dechlorinator,and serves many other purposes.It can be used to detoxify ammonia and nitrite(all in the directions on bottle).A 500 ml bottle does thousands of gallons(5 ml treats 50 gallons{1 capful}).
Any gravel vac will do the same thing basically.Just get a medium sized one as they come in small,med ,large and Xtra large.The size controls how fast water is removed.


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## susankat

Tonya what part of Tulsa are you in? Tulsa gets their water from 2 different areas. So far I have been lucky that my water is close to 7.2 to 7.4 out of the tap. But I have lived in other areas where the water had a higher ph. Never had a problem keeping fish.
Use prime as its cheaper to use for the fact you don't need as much.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

I thought you all would like to know that I picked up a gravel pump/vacuum yesterday. I also had my water tested at the same time. It was only the slightest bit high on ammonia. However,my husband explained to the people that tested our water that the danio/jelly hybrids were rubbing themselves against the plants in the tank at the store where we bought them from. Which apparently is a very bad thing. And, looking at the dead body of the clown pleco he had white spots on him. Which apparently is a since of "ick/ich". Now, I know why they were willing to cut us a deal on the fish. We are a little comforted by the fact that the issue wasnt really our fault. Our goldfish was doing spectacularly - swimming around frequently and getting very excited about feedings. This stopped almost immediately after introducing the new fish to the tank.

I just feel so swindled it leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and has just had my stomach tied in knots the past two days. We were told we would have to replace gravel, plants everything. I dont mind doing that. And, I know setting up a fish tank is a process but it just feels horrible. The goldfish crawled into the sunken ship hideaway this morning and is just floating there


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## TonyaPatrick1985

I live in the 71st/Yale area of Tulsa near St. Francis Hospital.


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## susankat

Ok your water isn't bad over there for fish. I know a few fish keepers in the area there. 

And no you don't have to change everything out. But you do need to add some ich cure meds to get rid of it out of the tank. I don't use many meds but I also have fish that can handle a rise in temps to treat it.

Get yourself your own test kit. Most people use API test kits as they are more reliable. Most petstores use strips that are not accurate, unless you are going to a higher end lfs.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

I have the API test kit on order from Amazon. It should be here by Saturday. Do I need the ICH medications now? All my fish are dead. If I still need it I will buy it with a smile. My husband is going to help me empty the tank this weekend. Vacuum the gravel and everything like that. Put fresh water in. We are going to set up our tank and start over from the beginning pretty much.


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## Arthur7

TonyaPatrick1985 said:


> After talking it over with my husband, who is very supportive of my new hobby, we are going to go out tonight and spend a little over a hundred bucks on an ro water system that we saw at our local pet store. We are concerned as where we live in Tulsa, OK they do have additives to their tap water. In addition, I know a couple of you have mentioned gravel pumps/vacuums. What brand do you all recommend?
> 
> I told my husband I felt bad about having to spend so much money on this because it is my "birthday gift". But, his only response was that if we were going to do it at all we are going to do it the right way
> 
> Also, what kind of buckets are appropriate for water changes? Are there any that could be potentially harmful??


For the aquarium, take only new plastic bucket. It may have been there previously no cleaning medium. (For kitchen and bathroom). One can make a trial with live daphnia. Was previously in the soap bucket, die after a short time.

I'm always sorry when someone loses his fish by Ichthyophtirius.


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## susankat

You can buy new buckets at walmart, home depot or lowes. Always keep it separate from cleaning supplies and buckets to keep it safe to use. Or get an aqueon or python that you can hook to sink and don't even bother with buckets.


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## coralbandit

Fill the tank with tap water and let it run for 2 weeks before you add fish.No meds needed as the ich will die without a host(fish).You could set the temp high(86+) during this time as extra added safety.Otherwise you should treat the tank for 7 days at least.
If you buy meds get kordon rid ich plus or ap quick cure.Both have the proper meds mixed(malechalite green and formulin).Don't buy "fizzy tabs" or any other med that is not those two specific meds together{they are proven}
Sorry you lost your fish,but any ammonia is a sign of an uncycled filter or atleast overloaded.So maybe you even should fishless cycle the next set up.Onlly takes cheap ammonia and in the 7-14 days your killing ich you could be completely cycled and ready to stock tank completely .
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html
Many here will help through the fishless cycle.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

I just fished my fish out who died this morning. That was just the worst feeling  I took the plants out since we had not spent much on them anyway. All that is left in there is the gravel. What do I do now to cycle my tank? I plan on trying to get a couple of buckets this weekend...


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## coralbandit

This is the life cycle of ich;
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
It is pretty helpful to understand it.
For a fishless cycle you only need pure ammonia,no surfactants,dyes or perfumes.Then you need to dose ammonia to bring tank to 4ppm.Add this amount everyday until nitrItes show(don't even test for 4-5 days).Once nitrItes show you cut back to dosing 1/2 the ammonia every four days.When you are 0 ammonia and nitrites within 24 hours of last ammonia dose you are cycled.Then a large (75%) water change to bring nitrAtes to exceptable level(under 40ppm ,better around 20ppm) and you can stock tank completely.
I'm pretty sure this is the most effective method at this point,jr is really more up on this than myself.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

So I need to actually add ammonia to the full tank of water? How much ammonia do I need to add each day?


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## coralbandit

How much is the tricky part.You need to measure a small amount(1/2 teaspoon) and add to aquarium.Give it an hour or so and test.You are looking to get to 4ppm.Make sure you accurately measure as you gnce you get to 4ppm the total amount you added to get there is how much you will add everyday until nitrItes show(possibly in 5-7 days,but every tank is different).Don't bother to measure ammonia(ppm in tank ) again,there is no need,just dose original amount until nitrItes show.When nitrItes show you will cut back to 1/2 of original dose every 4 days until nitrItes and ammonia are 0.
Make sure it is pure ammonia nothing else added in.
The time this takes should be enough to kill the ich just by not having fish in the tank.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Could anybody give me any tips to make my tank ready for fish? I really would rather not use ammonia. I have not had any fish or plants in the tank for going on 2 weeks now. I have the filter going as normal. I thought I read somewhere that ich would die if it had nothing to attach to. I am assuming I will need to use the gravel vacuum. I would just prefer not to use ammonia as that smell has always been an irritant to me. I have read about other methods online. But, I thought I would ask all of you here since all of you seem to know what you are talking about.


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## coralbandit

You could "fishless cycle" old school,with fish food or a dead cocktail shrimp.Both are not as easy to regulate or as quick,but basically any form of waste will produce ammonia and get the ball rolling.I have done this with fish food many times ,but it does take aprox. 1 month.The food is just very hard to regulate,as how fast it decays and turns into ammonia is different with all foods and tanks.I used to just feed the invisable fish for a month and count it!Never really tested or knew if it really worked ,but also lost no fish,just took a long time.
You could also try bacterial boosters(TSS{tetra safe start} ,or Dr tims one and only) .Those two are considered the best,but again some have had success and others have not.I think both need fish in tank to work,and require regular testing of nutrients.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Okay I am done cycling my tank. My tests (with the API kit I purchased) are all coming out the way they need to be.

We emptied three quarters of the water yesterday. We are filling the tank back up today - we had the days lapse because we needed to purchase the correct screwdriver to put our new fish tank stand together with. Tonight we will do that. My question is after we have the new water in with what remains of the old water...how soon can I stock plants and fish? We are going to change the filters out as well. Will this have any impact on how long I should wait to stock?

Again, I appreciate all the comments!!


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## coralbandit

Changing the filter may screw up the cycle.If you could run old filter with new for a week or two you should be fine.Or you could pull the media from old filter to new if possible.
Not taking filter swap into consideration if you fishless cycled with ammonia you should have plenty of bacteria to fully stock fish.Plants only help with removing nutrients so they should cause no issues.


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## TonyaPatrick1985

Okay. So we put one new filter in last night and kept one of the old filters in.

My new question is: we are considering discus. I read they are best in pairs or in groups of three. Is this true? Is our tank (29 gallon) large enough for 3 young/juvenile discus? How long will it take the discus to grow to their full adult size? I am assuming at that time we would need to invest in a 55-75 gallon tank. If that takes a year or so that would be the perfect amount of time to save for a really nice set up for them and then convert the 29 gallon tank into something else.

I know we would need an ro system for the discus and good water conditioner. Does anyone have any good suggestions for us to accomplish this? I want the discus to thrive so if it cant work it cant work. But, on the other hand, if as I have read, it takes them a year to reach maturity we will definitely move them into a larger tank straightaway. I know the discus would be the only fish we could have in there. So, pretty much all suggestions are welcome. The goldfish were just SO dirty. We siphoned all the gravel during our water change yesterday and with moving the tank to our new tank stand every bit of mess just came up from the bottom, it was gross. We want something pretty that will thrive, preferably discus - but definitely out of the cichlid family.

Please advise


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## Summer

welcome! wont you consider coming back and posting some?


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