# adding WHITE CLOUD MINNOWS....



## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

i was talking to a couple forum members YESTERDAY about adding a school of white cloud minnows into a 46 gallon bowfront aquarium with 4 Goldfish and a few snails in already. We all came to the conclusion that it would be ok.... 

i do 25% water changes every 3rd day... and my water seems perfect... i have some driftwood... rocks and plants in the aquarium and i think a small school of WC minnows would BE PERFECT... 

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK???? am i overdoing it??? would i be fine??? *c/p*


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

That's too many gold fish for that size tank


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

technically i am only 4 gallons undersized... which is not much of a big deal.... water is in prestine condition due to my every 3rd day water change... fish look happy my question was about the minnows.. but i already know what your opinion is... thanks though.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure why you would start a fresh thread just for that if you've already got an answer in your other thread. As I believe was mentioned in the other thread, keep the water changes the same frequency and you probably will be okay.

Personally, I can't understand adding any fish to a goldie tank but that is your choice.


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

2 reasons... i wanted a new title and more peoples opinions...

and 2nd i love them and my son does too.. to me thats all that really matters.. just wanted advice on additions.. thanks though.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

Monkey87 said:


> technically i am only 4 gallons undersized... which is not much of a big deal.... water is in prestine condition due to my every 3rd day water change... fish look happy my question was about the minnows.. but i already know what your opinion is... thanks though.


If you had a 50,000 gallon tank and 3 fish in it, someone would say your tank isn't big enough... I think that they are trying to make up for something!


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

PBrods said:


> If you had a 50,000 gallon tank and 3 fish in it, someone would say your tank isn't big enough... I think that they are trying to make up for something!


LOL!! so what do u think?? BAD IDEA? 
GOOD IDEA?! *old dude


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

Monkey87 said:


> LOL!! so what do u think?? BAD IDEA?
> GOOD IDEA?! *old dude


Sorry, I'm not qualified to answer that. I'm just starting out. I just posted that comment because as new as I am...I see certain people running around commenting to everyone saying their tank isn't big enough...It just gets sickening.


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

lol... i hear ya..!  well... WELCOME and ENJOY!!!!!!!!


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

PBrods said:


> I just posted that comment because as new as I am...I see certain people running around commenting to everyone saying their tank isn't big enough...It just gets sickening.



It's not that we enjoy running around telling people their tanks are too small - we've just been at this for a while and understand what happens when a tank is overstocked..... we speak from experience. The 1" of fish per gallon rule is junk, and many new people come on here thinking it works. Everyone here is just trying to help, not insult.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

That's a bit ridiculous. First of all, there are many people here who are extremely experienced. Secondly, join any aquarium forum on the 'net, or go to any place where people actually know what they are talking about and they are going to advise you to stock your tank appropriately. Taking jabs at those on here who know the hobby is really uncalled for, just because you arent getting the answer you want to hear, does not mean anyone here is compensating for anything other than the fact that they have lived and learned from experience and are tryin to help you do the same. Take it or leave it, but dont expect any one to cater to whatever it is you are looking to hear.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

When it comes down to it, if you don't like the answers you get then don't follow the suggestions and do your own thing. 99.9% of the advice you get here is people trying to be helpful and will keep you out of the tank emergency forum when you start having issues. If you don't like hearing a 46g bowfront is only good for a small amount of the fish you chosen, or whatever the situation, don't follow or get a different fish. Or, if you ask the question enough maybe you'll finally get the answer you want.


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

well all i said was "ya i hear ya" and im sure PBrods didnt mean to break any hearts or hurt feelings...he was just saying something he felt... not one of you can take that from him.. its called opinion...n my question wasnt something like can i put a shark in a 10g tank.. it was something valid.. n at the end of the day.. most people that comment its THEIR opinion... in theory.. it will work.. ive seen WORSE things work than a 46g with 4 goldfish n a small school of WCM's... i just wanted something to give a reason in why they think it was a good or bad idea... being "overstocked" is not a valid reason because there is many things that can be done about water quality.. my fish r swimming with alot space and minimal waste due to me doing PWC's every 3rd day.. but thanks anyways..


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## congar15 (Dec 6, 2011)

IMO the white clouds are fine. As long as your goldifsh are pretty small, you'll be fine. Do water changes once a week or so even and you'll be fine. Or add another/better filter. Theres alot of options here. I kind of agree that the 20g for first goldfish, 10g for every extra rule is kind of garbage. If your goldfish were 10in than yeah that's true, but with small goldies just do it. In my first days of fish keeping i was sold an irradescent shark for my 16g tank. It lived and grew in there, and when I felt it was necessary/ I saw how big they get I sold it. He lived in there for years. Also my sister kept a white cloud minnow in a 1g plastic fish bowl with water changes once every 2 months and it lived for 5 years. The science of fish keeping isn't supposed to be an exact science. Just have fun with it, and do what you feel is fine. 
Thanks, happy fishkeeping*W


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

yes. you are right, everyone has an opinion. And my opinion is that if someone has too many fish in a tank i'm going to say something because some people simply don't know any better (I sure as heck didnt when I joined this site). Whether you take the advise is up to you, you are not going to break my heart, believe me. Doesnt mean i'm not going to say what I think either. Thanks so much


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

Summer said:


> yes. you are right, everyone has an opinion. And my opinion is that if someone has too many fish in a tank i'm going to say something because some people simply don't know any better (I sure as heck didnt when I joined this site). Whether you take the advise is up to you, you are not going to break my heart, believe me. Doesnt mean i'm not going to say what I think either. Thanks so much


well you should REALLY watch what you say and stop contradicting yourself.. i find itfunny when you say that IM overstocked YET... you have 4 ADULT MOLLIES.. which need 15g for one fish.... and 3 adult swordtails which need even more space!!! and a very long aquarium... if you did your research your would know that u are EXTREMELY underspaced... but yet you are giving me advice... my point has been proven... andim SURE your 29gallon is working for you... BUT.. technically speaking you would need something way bigger than that for those fish... but ..you commented on someone elses thread who is not exactly "overstocked" i dont get it.. i just asked bout minnows who dont need ALOT of space and in a nice spacious bowfront.. anyways... im done with this forum.. thanks to everyone who helped..
*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance*banana dance


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Monkey87 said:


> well you should REALLY watch what you say and stop contradicting yourself.. i find itfunny when you say that IM overstocked YET... you have 4 ADULT MOLLIES.. which need 15g for one fish.... and 3 adult swordtails which need even more space!!! and a very long aquarium... if you did your research your would know that u are EXTREMELY underspaced... but yet you are giving me advice... my point has been proven... andim SURE your 29gallon is working for you... BUT.. technically speaking you would need something way bigger than that for those fish... but ..you commented on someone elses thread who is not exactly "overstocked" i dont get it.. i just asked bout minnows who dont need ALOT of space and in a nice spacious bowfront.. anyways... im done with this forum.. thanks to everyone who helped..


Adult Mollies need a 15g tank, but not an additional 15g for each after the first. If you have a ref that states that, please provide a link. Similar guidance for Swordtails, although I think minimum is a 25g.

You can go to any other site and you will get the exact same advice. This site is not unique in that respect. I frequent four others and the same advice is given and I mostly just read there.

You got the advice already that stated if you kept up your water changes you would not have any issue with adding more to your setup, and yet begged for more responses with a second thread asking the exact same question as if the first thread you didn't get what you needed. YOU asked for more and it looks like you got it. Not sure why you would be upset about it?


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm hardly overstocked in my 29, in fact I could probably add several more fish without having any issues. You need to think through and research your attack before pushing the enter button.


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

Aquarium conditions and care:

They need free space for swimming, however lots of aquarium plants too. For this fish, you need an aquarium with a minimum length of 1 meter. It means that an aquarium with a capacity of 200 liters or more is suitable for four specimens. For example, one male and 3 females. I don’t recommended you to keep 2 males in one tank. There is a hierarchy between Swordtails and only one male is the dominant one and could possibly harass the rest. If you keep the conditions inside the tank of a good quality, swordtails will become plentiful. Generally speaking, you will enjoy a lot of little swordtails specimens for months. Anyhow, it isn’t recommended to house them in the tank. You should give or sell them, otherwise you risk overpopulating your aquarium.

Fish keepers often ask "How many swordtails should I get?", which has been partially answered in the paragraph above. Bear in mind that when you're buying, most likely these specimens are juveniles and they'll grow. Also, adult specimens aren't as playful as juveniles. They become more territorial, although not extremely territorial. At least 40 liters per specimen...... from: The Swordtail Fish Breeding And Care


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

So I guess you're good on Mollies?

Well, if you're going to stop on the first place you find.....

I wouldn't suggest this site alone. There are dozens out there. If you have experience with keeping them please amplify. I've been keeping them for a couple of years.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I accidentally posted this in another thread so here is my advice about the minnows in your tank once again.



jbrown5217 said:


> imo set up another tank for white clouds. I am of the opinion that you have too many goldfish in that tank. After doing a bit of reading on goldfish after I had seen so many "hey is my goldfish ok in a 1 gallon tank" questions I wanted to learn more. imo goldfish should have a 30 gallon tank for the first and an extra 10 gallon for each additional. A lot of people will say 20 gallons per 1 is fine and it probably is, but they generate so much waste that I believe it should be 30 gallon per 1 and then extra 10 for each additional.
> 
> So by how I would house a goldfish you have too many. However it is my opinion and as long as your fish are happy and healthy I have no problem with how you keep your fish. As for the white clouds. I actually know a fair bit about them because I was looking to make a white cloud 10 gallon until I ran into some problems from MA law, which I am still not quite sure what the ruling is.
> 
> ...


I would also suggest that you listen to everyone else. Every time I ask Summer, Holly, and jr a question I get a helpful response that is based on experience and information that is publicly available. Even after I get a helpful response that says if I will be okay I take it upon myself to research even further. There is no problem with asking a question in multiple places to get multiple answers, but I would suggest no t doing it in the same forum. Frequent more than one fish forum to get more opinions (most will more than likely be similar or the same however) or ask a friend who is experienced in fish keeping or research more yourself, google is a powerful search engine when used correctly.

Just to give you an example of where I was helped a lot, this was yesterday, I was in the car with my girlfriend and she said she was thinking about getting a small tank for some neon tetras. I told her she would need at least a 5 gallon tank and that would even be a stretch. I told her that a 10 gallon tank would look better and she would be happier. She kept telling me no no I want a smaller tank because of space (even after seeing the size of my 10 gallon). I came onto the forum and went into the chatroom (this question only required a quick response) and I asked what the minimum size for 6 or 7 neon tetras would be. I was told that she could get away with maybe 8 gallons, but they would need to be carefully watched and that a 10 gallon would be much better because there is more horizontal swim space.

After thanking Bev who graciously helped me I went out and did more research to find out her recommendations were spot on and that I would feel more comfortable suggesting another type of tetra because neons can be sensitive to water conditions so they aren't the best starter fish. I am also pretty sure Bev mentioned it as well.

Like said before no one here is out to get you or just make wild accusations about your tank. We all truly wish to help you. I made a grave error when I first started fish keeping by getting 2 wcm in a 3 gallon tank. This was based on some bad advice given to me by petsmart (the one by my school keeps their fish healthy, but their staff has basic knowledge at best). Luckily these fish are still alive and doing well, but it has required much more upkeep than what most people wanting a fish tank require (bigger is better in almost every aspect of fish keeping). As a matter of fact the only downside to a smaller tank would be potential overall price of supplies. 

Taking what I have learned since I got those fish have only made me a better fish keeper and I hope that you take their advice with the same amount of thought many other people already have. 

Also do not disrespect anyone, there is no need for it especially when everyone here is only trying to help you.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

not that this site as the prevailing law, but just to show you I'm perfectly within reason. 








Now, quit worrying about my tanks and worry about your own.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Monkey, Susan and I both said you could probably get away with a school of the Minnows, as long as you keep up with your great water maintenance schedule, since you have a massive filter on the tank. Not really sure why you're asking the same question on the same forum.


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