# Fishless Cycle, How to Keep cycled?



## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

I am doing a fishless cycle on my hospital/isolation tank, a new 10g underneath the old 10g. My question is once the cycle is complete, how do I keep it cycled? Should I just put a couple of Zebra's or Platties in there just to keep it going? Then when I need to use it, take the Zebra's or Platties out? Or just leave them in? Or maybe no fish and a couple of drops of ammonia twice a week?

Plus, if I use antibiotics in the hospital tank, will I have to start the cycle all over again?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What method are you using for a fishless cycle? If you're using ammonia, you could just add a few drops a week to keep it cycled. I started out that way but don't worry about it anymore. I have yet to have a "cycle" issue with my qt/hosp tank and have had numerous fish in there at the same time for a couple of weeks. 

To sum it up, I cycled mine and forgot about it and it hasn't had an issue. Your experience could be different. To play it safe however, adding a few drops a week should keep it cycled, along with keeping the filter and heater going at all times, and doing bi-weekly water changes.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Once it's cycled, all you have to do to maintain the cycle is keep feeding it. In my QT (quarantine/hospital tank), I was dropping bits of raw shrimp in and leaving the bits in there to decompose.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

I'd say the same thing as these others.. once its cycled, its good. just dont overload it with new fish...


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks guys. I tested the water in the fishless tank just now and it's reading .5 ppm ammonia and .5 Nitrite and 0 Nitrate. It looks like the cycle is really starting. I put enough ammonia in at first to bring the level up to 4.0 ppm ammonia. After that, I kept it at 2.0 ppm ammonia.

I think now, I'll add ammonia to bring it back to 2.0 ppm every other day until Nitrites go to 0 and see what Nitrates do. I want to watch to see how much the ammonia goes down in 48 hours. 

I also put some in plants from my old 10g that had over grown. Doing that, I changed the lights from the stock incandescence to two 13 watt cfl running them about 12 hours per day. I'm keeping the temp on the high range at 80 degrees.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

if you see ammonia, you'll probably see nitrites.. keep doing it until you see nitrates.. thats the last part of the cycle.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

Use water from your tank.

If you are setting it up for Hospital reasons then you are prob best using water from the tank and moving the fish to it since they will be moving from 1 tank to another but be in the same water and from there you can decide how to treat your fish.

Same with QT this way the fish will be getting used to the water it will be living in for the rest of its life, you can keep some water back from water changes instead of throwing it down the plug.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

That might work ok (used water) but I have four tanks now, one 60g tall "Rainbow community", two 10g's one is a general community, the other is the hospital tank I am working on and I picked up a 20g hex with wood stand, all accessories for 60 bucks today. I'm not sure what I'll do with that one but as my wife says, "You'll find something to put in it!"

Anyway, the sick fish could come from any of three tanks, actually 4 if your count the 2.5 g Betta tank. I try to keep the water all at the same temp and chemistry so maybe it'll work out ok.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The problem with used water.....first off the water has very little beneficial bacteria in it. Most of that is in the gravel and filter. Second, if I've been taking water from a particular tank that now has a fish in the same tank that I now need to medicate or is now sick, the last thing I want to be doing is putting water from the tank where it is going. What if the problem started from the water in the first place? Keep it separate. Do not mix any of your tank's water with your qt water. Keep it solid, clean, and different. JMO.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

agreed with jrman. Keep the QT tank as premium as you can. That way it will have no problems when you need to QT a fish. Its easy to match temps and PH to different tanks (if you know how though) and can be done fairly quickly when you need it. Keep some RO water to bring the PH down if you need, or some sodium bicarbonate around to help raise it up. Get an adjustable heater for this tank also. Add some plants in there to help the bio load when you do need to introduce the fish (when it comes to ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites that is) as well as having a good place for the fish to hide but easy to spot if needed.


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## BillyBob (Apr 13, 2011)

Just out of curiosity. If youve set up the tank as a hospital tank, are raw shrimp a good idea to keep feeding the bacteria colony? I heard that theres the risk of introducing diseases etc., so i was concerned myself. I just stuck to liqiud ammonia because of this.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

The idea behind using water from the tank is it's easier as you don't need a tank running 24/7 and it also means the fish is moving to the same enviroment.



> if I've been taking water from a particular tank that now has a fish in the same tank that I now need to medicate or is now sick, the last thing I want to be doing is putting water from the tank where it is going.


If your fish has Ich the brand new water will also get it after time, so that is not an issue, you would also be treating the tank with medicine so the stuff brought over will be getting killed anyway, surely moving the fish to the same enviroment and Improving it over a peroid of time would be better.



> first off the water has very little beneficial bacteria in it.


Nobody said it did

In a hospital tank you can keep it dark no lighting is really needed, some folks like to cover most of the glass sides.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

so are you saying keeping the tank dry until its needed? Keeping water in there without filtration or movement? i'm a bit confused on why you would need to move the water over unless these were involved.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

Well, I'm pretty much set on keeping the isolation/hospital as an up and running 10g with plants, using ammonia to keep the cycle going. (seems like 16 drops daily, but I'll continue to check it) Last night I had the ammonia up to 2.0 ppm and just checked it, about 20 hours later. Ammonia at 0.0 Nitrites at 2.0 Nitrates at 80. So, when the Nitrites go to 0.0 after bringing up ammonia to 2.0 on a daily basis, I'll consider the tank cycled and just do water changes to keep the nitrates down.

Then if I need it, I'll have it. I am also in the process of cycling a 20g hex tank but I am going to put fish in that one. Not sure what just yet.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

verdifer said:


> The idea behind using water from the tank is it's easier as you don't need a tank running 24/7 and it also means the fish is moving to the same enviroment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By what you say, I see no benefit from using old tank water. Therefore, just using fresh water would be the better route and there is no discernable ease going one route over the other. 

A water change is still be necessary in the QT prior to adding a med or fish to it to make sure the fish and the med gets the best chance to work.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm going to keep this thread going until both these tanks are cycled and running. I have the one 10g planted with no plans to put fish in it other than to move the ones in the old ten into it long enough to change the substrate. The 20g hex has a large artificial log with plants on it. I don't like it but am leaving it as I hoped it would have some good bacteria on it. (more on that below)

Each day I test the water twice, once in the morning and once in the evening and add ammonia as needed. Right now, I am only testing for ammonia and Nitrites. Nitrates are not really on my radar at the moment. I am having somewhat of a hard time keeping the ammonia above 2.0 ppm. Both tanks are showing Nitrites but not huge amounts. The hex is running 0.25 this morning and the 10g is at 2.0 ppm Nitrites. 

I've been adding 16 drops of ammonia to the 10 and 32 to the 20g hex. I may need to bring that up and or test about an hour after adding ammonia. If the good bacteria are really cooking, they may be removing it quickly and I just don't see the higher level of ammonia I'm looking for. I'd actually like to see ammonia at 4.0 ppm an hour after adding and 0 ppm 24 hours later. Naturally, when that happens and Nitrites run 0.0 I'll be adding a fish or two.

The 10 was brand new out of the store about 2 weeks ago and the hex was a Convict Cichlids tank that I bought of Craigslist three days ago. They left a little water in the bottom and the old HOB filter. I was hoping that the hex would either not need to cycle or be a short cycle. We'll see.

The 20g hex, I plan on putting maybe two spectacular fish and a Cory cat. It sits at the edge of the desk and is really pretty and will be more so later. My 60g tall is two feet from my easy chair and is doing fine as mostly species tank for Rainbows. The 10g sits on the stand below the original 10g that started my renewal into the hobby. i.e. ReStart.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Add, test, add test, until you get to what you want. Add the extra it took to what you've been adding everyday and it will stay.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> By what you say, I see no benefit from using old tank water. Therefore, just using fresh water would be the better route and there is no discernable ease going one route over the other.
> 
> A water change is still be necessary in the QT prior to adding a med or fish to it to make sure the fish and the med gets the best chance to work.


Are you having a laugh and did you really read any of my posts?

And I'm pretty sure that any Medicine on the market at present will work just the same in new water and water from the main tank, the idea with using water from the main tank means that the water is the same and you can get the water quality up over a period of time.

As I said earlier in a Hospital Tank you will want the water parameters to be the same so you do not have to acclimate the fish again, the idea here is it's a Hospital Tank to treat sick fish and you want the fish to be in there pretty fast so you can get to work on them and the easiest way to do that is to take water from the main tank that is unless you have fish which can be bought took straight home and put in tank without having to acclimate them.

Yes I know the water from there will not be perfect at that time if it was then chances are no HT would be getting set-up, but I see no real point in messing about with the water in the HT when by using water from the Main Tank this could be avoid, the water quality can easily be improved with water changes and since the tank will be small it shouldn't be that big an issue.

As I also said before if a Fish has lets say Ich then the water used will end up with Ich as far as I'm aware Ich does not throw a strop and refuse to fall off fish and start their cycle if they are placed in a smaller tank with new water, I have no scientific evidence to back me up here but I'm pretty sure I stand correct, as I also said before the meds used will treat this also.

For the HT the filter from the Main Tank can be used but if you can get a hold of another 1 even a cheap 1 you could use that a popular thing people do is to get a bit of filter floss and hide it away in the main tank out of sight so when a HT is being set-up they can just grab it and use that, and there you go a piece of filter media with bacteria on it already.

If you do choose to start a HT and want to keep it running 24/7 all year round then putting some cheap fish like Neons would be the best way to keep it ticking over but that is just more or less starting a new tank as you will have to keep doing the water changes and cleaning.

I just see no point on starting a new fish tank when it is not needed can I also add that a HT does not necessary have to be a glass fish tank even a big container would do the down side of this is you may not get a good look at the fish, when I started fish-keeping I knew a guy who had been keeping fish for over 25 years and he pointed out to me that my fsh could even live in my bath so long as I had proper filtration in it.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

Just an update, the 10g (isolation/hospital tank)seems to be cycle complete, even after only 2 weeks. I used the filter pad from my old 10g and moved some plastic plants from the old tank as well when I started it. Temp was maintained at 80.

I added enough ammonia to bring the level to between 2.0 ppm and 4.0 ppm each night then tested each afternoon, adjusting the ammonia back to the 2 to 4 ppm. For the last two days, in the afternoon, the ammonia is 0 Nitrites 0 and Nitrates have risen to 40. I'm calling it done and am going to let it set for a bit.

jrman and I had good little discussion about this tank over on the chat and I appreciate his help.

For the time being, I am going to keep it fishless and add a bit of ammonia every so often. I may put a couple of hardy fishes in there and then if needed as a qt tank, I'll just drop them back into one of the other tanks until the need for a qt tank is over. But I am going to play that by ear.

My hex 20 is still in cycle with Nitrites at .50 ppm and only 5.0 ppm Nitrates. I tried to put a few plants into it yesterday to discover the substrate is these large simi-pebble type stuff. So now, I am thinking to take half the water out, remove all the pebbles and replace with a more normal (for plants at least) substrate. The pebbles were there when the original owners had Convicts in there. 

I don't feel like doing that right now so maybe, maybe not. My wife said I should consider getting two smallish, colorful Cichlids and keep the pebbles. Regardless, the cycle moves on.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

verdifer said:


> Are you having a laugh and did you really read any of my posts?
> 
> And I'm pretty sure that any Medicine on the market at present will work just the same in new water and water from the main tank, the idea with using water from the main tank means that the water is the same and you can get the water quality up over a period of time.
> 
> ...


AS I SAID (lol), there is no real advantage to doing the way you recommend. So if I have my choice over fresh/new water or old tank water, I leave out the old tank water anyday. 

Plus, your way doesn't really address the question of the thread anyway. Using water from another tank will not keep it cycled.

Glad you finished your post.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

> AS I SAID (lol), there is no real advantage to doing the way you recommend. So if I have my choice over fresh/new water or old tank water, I leave out the old tank water anyday.
> 
> Plus, your way doesn't really address the question of the thread anyway. Using water from another tank will not keep it cycled.
> 
> Glad you finished your post.


I don't really understand the problem you have with reading posts, I'm up for different ideas from my current ways of doing things but please stop failing at reading, if you do not understand me I will talk to you via PM so this thread isn't hijacked and I can make it easier to understand since you seem to be either stuck in your ways or just fail at reading.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Nope, I've read it all. I just disagree. Get over it!


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

As I said I don't really see the problem you have, I'm also not intrested in Flame Wars on forums like the 1 you are trying to push here.

All I replied to the original post was he doesn't need a tank running 24 hours a day all year round he can simply put 1 together when needed, I felt I gave good points on how to do this, I was only giving a different solution to a problem.

Both our ways can be done, I only feel that by using tank water the poster will find it much easier because he won't need to acclimate his fish and he doesn't need to run and maintain another tank.



> Nope, I've read it all. I just disagree. Get over it!


I don't know you and will never meet you so if sitting behind your screen making childish comments like this makes you more a man then I will let you have your moment, as I said before hijacking a thread is not the way to go here I am more than willing to talk via PM if I have upset you that much.

A quick google popped this website up so you can see my point I find it is very fitting at the present moment http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?193361-Quick-Hospital-Tank-Setup-for-Dummies


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

My moment? 

Why don't take yours and move on....damn.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

Lets just agree to disagree.

As I said earlier I have no intrest in a childish Flame War.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

LOL I just read this post and don't really want to get in the middle of something but to the OP, you can keep the tank going as you have planned and it should work well but if you rather not have an empty tank running what I do is to have a spare sponge filter in my tank and I set up a rubbermaid tub with it and water from my main tank when I need to. That way I can keep fish in all my tanks


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> LOL I just read this post and don't really want to get in the middle of something but to the OP, you can keep the tank going as you have planned and it should work well but if you rather not have an empty tank running what I do is to have a spare sponge filter in my tank and I set up a rubbermaid tub with it and water from my main tank when I need to. That way I can keep fish in all my tanks


I like your rec best of all, lol. I may move that direction one day. That may stall my plans for another tank. The only downside I'd see is not being able to view the fish very well to see if the fish was healing....assuming some type of fungal thing going on. Could probably figure something out though.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I like your rec best of all, lol. I may move that direction one day. That may stall my plans for another tank. The only downside I'd see is not being able to view the fish very well to see if the fish was healing....assuming some type of fungal thing going on. Could probably figure something out though.


Yes, not being able to see through the sides well is the biggest disadvantage. I do have one that is fairly clear but still not as good as glass.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

My wife is taking bets as to how long I'll be able to sit here and watch a fully cycled 10g with no fish in it. lol. Right now, I have other things to do in the hobby and most of the fish I want are expensive and harder to find, so I may last longer that she expects!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good luck with that.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

ReStart said:


> My wife is taking bets as to how long I'll be able to sit here and watch a fully cycled 10g with no fish in it. lol. Right now, I have other things to do in the hobby and most of the fish I want are expensive and harder to find, so I may last longer that she expects!


Put some plants in it! *old dude


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL put the little electric fish for pools in there for now.


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

The electric pool fish would be funny as hell. I may look for some today just to see the expression on my wife's face!

And Beaslbob, in fact, I actually considered that (dutch tank). I do want one. Most of the aquarium competitions I see seem to be that type and are SO beautiful. There are a couple of things stopping me, first is I want at least a 30g for a dutch and second is the cost of lighting. I'd spend at least 200 bucks and knowing me, twice that before I'd be satisfied. I also have read some of the maintenance issues, trimming, replanting, fertilizing, etc. that goes along with a dutch tank. Really, recreating an ecosystem even beyond what we do with fish tanks. (I do love a show tank though)


Actually, I am not lasting long. I took today off, Good Friday, and am going to move some of the non-Rainbows from the 60g into the new 10g, just for a cleaner look. Larger fish in pairs with lots of clear space between them. Plus it reduces the bio-load on the 60. I am bad to think, "Just one more little fish won't overload it!". Great fish at a good price are hard to turn down. 

I had those Zebras and Barbs in there to help cycle but have grown to really like them. And now want a good home for them, ie the new 10g. I am going to half fill a 2g bucket with water from the 60, put them in the bucket, then slowly fill it with water from the new 10g to acclimate them.

Y'all have a good fish weekend and I plan on posting a short history of how I managed to suceed in the aquarium hobby with almost no skill, back in the day. Don't bother with it if you don't like long posts! ;-)


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