# vicious whiteclouds?



## ZachZaf (Jan 26, 2012)

I have 6 (now5) white clouds in a tank witha betta, and 6 neontets, and i feed them all is well go to take a shower, and when i come back there is this wield thing sitting on the log in the tank.. i look closer thinking something has picked the legs off of a ghost shrimp and as i look real close i notice that its the spine only... of one of the white clouds. its been torn to bits in a matter of 10 minutes. 

now I thought whiteclouds were a nice and happy communal species.. but the more i watch them there is one that is being really aggressive towards the other clouds.... time for segregation!


----------



## pH7 (Dec 5, 2011)

ZachZaf said:


> I have 6 (now5) white clouds in a tank witha betta, and 6 neontets, and i feed them all is well go to take a shower, and when i come back there is this wield thing sitting on the log in the tank.. i look closer thinking something has picked the legs off of a ghost shrimp and as i look real close i notice that its the spine only... of one of the white clouds. its been torn to bits in a matter of 10 minutes.
> 
> now I thought whiteclouds were a nice and happy communal species.. but the more i watch them there is one that is being really aggressive towards the other clouds.... time for segregation!


They are supposed to be peaceful fish. Once source is White Cloud Mountain minnow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...However I read one account on the intergoogles where someone wrote that they were harassing cories, which also seems strange because they are supposed to be top-level swimmers and not bottom-level.

There is however one rule that must always be taken into account. This is the "if it fits in the mouth of the other fish" rule. Even peaceful species can sometimes mistake other smaller fish for food, and therefore if it fits in their mouth, it becomes lunch.

My experience is that shrimp of mine have betimes fallen victim to this rule. They seem to be particularly susceptible to it, possibly because they are slow moving compared to faster swimming fish. My experience is also that if it happens to one shrimp, it will probably happen again.

Best of luck. My course of action would be to segregate them, as you have.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Just because they ate the fish doesn't mean they killed it. It may just have been a dead fish that they all picked at.


----------



## ZachZaf (Jan 26, 2012)

Very good point! but they killed it... They also killed another of the males.. Down to two females two males, and the two males seem to be picking on the ladies now... though the ladies have become suddenly larger... hmm....


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

How big is your tank?


----------



## ZachZaf (Jan 26, 2012)

They are moved into a 10 gal right now, and the three males are activley fighting all day long.the females will dart from here to there. It looks like if anything mating rituals. 

Although... one male has a yellow tipped fin while all the others have a white... I wonder if that is making a difference...


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

A 10 gallon should be okay although is pretty minimum, in a larger tank they might be more peaceful, were they in a larger tank before? Only having 4 of most shoaling fish will tend to cause problems. If you had say 10 of them I doubt you'd have any problems I would at least add a couple of more to bring you back to 6 and try to add as much decor as possible to break up the space so there are more places to hide and territories to claim. Make sure that water quality is good and fish seem healthy, some chasing etc is normal but a weak fish may not be able to take it. Not sure what else to suggest, sometimes fish just don't do what they are supposed to do!


----------



## ZachZaf (Jan 26, 2012)

The more i watch it does seem to be a single mean little fish... and then i net him and move him to the other side of the tank for a time out, the others seem to be alright... I will add 4 more, at this time there are only a couple shrimp in the tank with them and i dont mind making a species specific tank for them as they are pretty and neat so it'll work out... i hope!!


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Usually when there are more fish aggression is shared out better between them, that way it is just a bit of healthy competition and play rather than one fish getting constantly beaten up. 

I don't know about white clouds but with a lot of fish having more females than males helps, that way the males don't have to fight so much for the females and the females don't get pestered quite as much, it can be quite stressful for them if they are outnumbered.


----------



## ZachZaf (Jan 26, 2012)

Its only the one yellow tipped whitecloud that is causing trouble. granted the other two males provoke him, but they are almost like teenagers out for fun. they tease the cray fish from time to time (and i am worried she is going to get a hold of one of them and have a nice meal, guh)

I am planning to head out to get some more RO water today and snag a few more maybe three more females bring it to 5f 3m and hope they shut themselves up! 

I got a farlowlla cat the other day for the tank and he spends his acclimation time hidding behind the heater (whitch makes me nervous as it is...) but i am thinking about moving him to the 20 gal for saftey sake. the clouds dont seem to notice him and didnt bother him when he explored the rest of the tank briefly last night... I dont know, they are just little brats!


----------

