# Need advice on what next.



## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I did a Fish In tank Cycle (because im an idiot noob)

but as of 7pm tonight

Ammonia down to .5ppm 
Nitrate 40ppm Nitrite 3ppm 75 on the hardness scale(dead in the middle) 80 alkalinity and 7.2 PH 

Is it Time for plants or a few more fishies (both?)

I REALLY do want to get that ammonia down to .25 or 0 if possible. 

15 Gallons with an oversized filter (back of tank 20 gallon filter) 50 watt heater

6500 Led Bulbs x2 

1 red crab
1 Cory Cat
2 Dwarf Gourami
3 Green Tip Swords

They get fed 2x a day every 4th day for 1 feeding some dried shrimp or some dried Tubifex

(though they dont seem to LIKE the tubifex) I give the Cory and the Crab a Pleico sinking pellet to gnosh on the same day as the tubifex. 

Temp might be a bit warm at 78-80f 

Water is just a TINY bit cloudy I think.. maybe Could be my eyes from staring at a computer screen all day OR the ugly off white of the wall behind the tank making it look that way.

No background or Air stones added yet... 

I need suggestions as to what this Tank needs to make it better. 

*c/p*


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## henningc (Apr 17, 2013)

I'd keep doing 10%-20% water changes daily and add a sponge filter. I'm kind of shocked all your live stock lived through the process.

If you're going to plant add a few or at least the most hardy type for a week and then bring in the rest. Water changes my friend.


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## Wakenbake (Mar 25, 2013)

I would also cut down the feeding to once a day. Atleast until it is fully cycled. Uneaten food will just add to the ammonia. I actually only feed mine once a day.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

So let me get this straight - every 4th day, you feed your fish twice a day? Does that mean you're feeding once a day every day except for the 4th days?

I feed my fish once every 4 days or so. They don't need food every day, ESPECIALLY a diet of straight protein. Mix your fish's diet with some frozen veggies or, if you're a lazy bum like me, some frozen veggie pellets from your pet store. Straight protein can lead to constipation, just like humans.

What testing method/kit do you use? My API Master FW Test Kit reads a 0.25 ppm false ammonia reading religiously.

As stated above, change your water! And just a warning - your crab can and will eat anything it catches, including your other fish. Crabs also like to climb up hardware and escape out the top of the tank. They're strong enough that they can lift lids, from what I've heard, and I've heard stories of people whose crabs go missing and they find them in the next room under a dresser, years later. They can survive quite a long time out of water and, in fact, need to make regular trips to get air. I would suggest building up part of your tank to be emersed, either with a piece of lava rock or a large piece of driftwood, so they can get some air.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Your worry now is your nitrites. They need to be kept below 1ppm so you need to do a 75% water change or two 50%. As far as plants add away they will only help with ammonia and nitrite levels.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

joecrouse said:


> I did a Fish In tank Cycle (because im an idiot noob)
> 
> but as of 7pm tonight
> 
> ...


Plants could help,more fish will not.
Ammonia and nitrites need to be 0(not close) to say the filter is cycled.Adding fish to an "uncycled" tank will only raise the ammonia and nitrites,possibly to very unsafe levels.
The 2 dwarf gouramis are a no-no also as they probly (99% chance) are both males and will not get along for very long(one will die).
Your nitrites are already in the very unsafe range as like ammonia during the "fish in " cycling process you should not let it go over 1ppm.My advice,like dalfeds is get your nitrites down(change water).You need at least 2 @ 50% in the next day or two to get down to.75ppm and then may need another rather quickly after that.
It is important for the health of the fish to not let ammonia or nitrites go over 1ppm while cycling.
Don't add fish till cycle is completed(0 ammonia/0nitrites).
Change water!


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

To clarify. I did not do a COMPLETE fish in cycle... I ran the tank with bacteria for 3 weeks but i neglected to feed the bacteria. My bad I misunderstood.

No I do not feed the fish straight protein. a Pleco Algae pellets or 2 goes in the tank on that 2nd feeding the 4th day. (no flake that day dried shrimp and tubifex and a pellet)The gourami turn thier nose up at it the crab doesnt care the swords will nibble at it, the cory noms on it like a fat guy at a buffalo eating contest.

My test kits are the strips from Walmart. Jungle brand. *its what I can get without doing 100 mile round trip or ordering online. 

The Gourami seem to get along together they kinda looked like they were doing it... I will take that under advisement that 2 Gourami is not cool together as they are both likely male ( I can justify that I can get a smaller tank for my office now)

Crab is 100 percent aquatic according to the folks at House of Tropicals in Glen Burnie where i got him but I will endeavor to get him some air access. If the crab get out of its tank..I was warned they can escape I hot glued a rare earth magnet to the tank and to the lid to keep the lid closed. Should it escape it has to deal with an 80 pound black lab who sits watching ... waiting... and has already created nose prints on the glass of the tank. My dog has eaten a crab a LOT larger than this.. (Dog picked a fight with a MD blue crab that escaped a steamer pot once shell before i could stop her it was SEE, POUNCE NOM with 2 claws and a few legs sticking out wriggling, 3-4 crunchy bites and it was gone only to be released later on the kitchen rug as barf which was promptly re consumed before I could even stop her... stupid dog.)

Changed water today. Took 6-7 inches of water out of the tank. Added Havre De Grace tap water, which is some of the cleanest water in the state per my Water Bill (which lists all the contaminates including ammonia, chlorine, chloramine, nitrates Nitrites and even dissolved pesticides. (all of which we as a city do our best to filter out because our drinking water comes directly from the Susquehanna river) you can get a pretty detailed report from the Water department web site if you care to look. And even ran that at slow speed through a PUR Filter bought just for the purpose. Added the recommended dose of bacteria as well for after water change. 

Will test it tomorrow after everything is mixed and see where it goes. and I am feeding them 1x per day as recommended. Will have to wait till this weekend to get a Sponge filter Walmart doesn't have em, Petco and its ilk are 30 miles away. I called the pet store in the White Marsh Mall and THEY don't have em. Nearest LFS is 40 and 70 miles 1 way (the one in Delaware is not an option). . I could I suppose call my cousin the curator at the National Aquarium but thats cheating. 

Will test tomorrow. After today's water change has had a chance to mix.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Most of the chain pet stores don't have sponge filters.They seem rather hard to find except in good fish shops.
Eitherway they are great and a good addition to any tank so here's a little help;
Change Xy-2822 Aquarium Biochemical Sponge Filter Fish Tank Fry Shrimp Breeding Oxygen : Amazon.com : Kitchen & Dining
real good price and $1 shipping!


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

"...call my cousin the curator at the National Aquarium..."

I'm guessing you've gotten a private tour? Do tell!


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Nope he would want reciprocal rights and there is no bloody way in HELL I can go through the paperwork to get him permission to walk around HP's offices. He got out of IT for a reason... Let alone somewhere he would actually find interesting I mean a cube farm is boring as watching snails mate, and NOBODY gets to hang out in the tech support offices and or secured areas.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Had a Tragic occurrence in my tank overnight... My crab moulted last night... and it looks like one of the fish decided his soft little self would be tasty. I can only suspect this because the husk on one side in a few pieces and his soft squishy not hardened body was on the other side of the tank with most of his claws, eyes and legs missing. )-= RIP Barnaby. 

So tonight because I have my car having missed my train by 30 minutes I had to drive to Baltimore, I can stop by my Not quite as good but LOADS closer than Glenn Burnie MD LFS to pick up plants and a Sponge Filter. I need some quick recommendations as to what kind of plants I should pick up. I will do the sponge filter and Plant add while I do my Water Change Per recommendations. 

Also I got a 25 buck bonus gift certificate sitting on my desk this morning So.. I might hit Petco or PetSmart and pick up a 5 gallon tank for my Home office that will operate as Quarantine tank (IT WILL GET DONE RIGHT THIS TIME!)


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Glen Burnie? Would that be House of Tropicals? Great store!

The crab was probably eventually going to commit murder anyway. I would stick to low light plants (Anubias, Crypts, Vals, Java Fern/Moss, Ludwigia, etc). They are easier to take care of. If it is HOT that you go to, watch the plants. They do have some non-aquatic plants mixed in.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I wont be going to HOT tonight...its just way to long of a haul

Probably hit Toms Tropicals in Perry Hall. The place isnt bad its just isnt as specialist as it once was (I think) as half the store is now dedicated to Taxidermy. I just don't have the mental energy to dive through city traffic TWICE (once there from my office south and then once more on the way back) AND the long haul back to Havre De Grace. Just pounding my way through Perry Hall on RT 1 is going to cause my BP to spike higher than my tanks Nitrites! 

The only reason I even put up a Tank is for the "calming effect"


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Try putting it in your bedroom....I get some pretty trippy dreams, I call them "fishy dreams".


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I couldn't put a tank in my bed room. It would have to be a VERY cold water tank. (my bed room sits at 50-60 degrees in the winter and never gets over 72 in the summer):fish10: <would be some pretty cold fish.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

joecrouse said:


> The only reason I even put up a Tank is for the "calming effect"


As a youth (too long ago)I caddied for golfers who swore,threw clubs and sweat their butts off,all in the name of enjoying the game!This won't be that bad and the true pleasure of sitting back "at home" and enjoying nature is much longer lasting then any traffic jam or snow storm!
Watch out for jr,he's known to get a little too friendly with members and appearently you are in his "nieghborhood".lol!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Been to Havre De Grace a few times to launch my boat to fish the flats.

Tom...what are you talking about? I'm the brutal guy, right? Not friendly.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Tom...what are you talking about? I'm the brutal guy, right? Not friendly.


You can play this out as you choose!We all know you are really a softie!
As far as brutal goes I stand by "it only hurts if it is true!"Offending people don't make you a bad guy!(I hope?)


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Coral I work in IT. I deal with special kinds of stupid EVERY DAY... (I now have a headache from the special kind of stupid that wants to argue about replacing a 4 year old el cheapo laptop... (Sigh) My boss (and my doctor) told me I need relaxing hobbies... apparently they don't think three gun competition, paint ball, and medieval combat cause me stress. (I say hitting someone with a mock pole ax or Claymore is HIGHLY de stressifying but they disagree)

heh.. I have been called offensive before.. Brash. BLUNT. Violent sociopath. Plus all kinds of inventive profanity. Oddly enough they always call me that when I predict the outcome of a project MONTHS in advance tell them WHY and HOW its going to fail. Then they have to admit I am right.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

sometimes it's hard to tell people the outcome you expect through experience and other times it is easy.What 's hard is dealing with being called negative or pessamistic,and then being proven correct!"I told you so"never really gets many of us far (enough),but the inner satisfaction of knowing your "gut feeling" or experience,is proven correct is usaully enough for me.I prefer to expect the worst, and then am easily pleased with any positive outcome.
The aquarium will be a very relaxing "piece of art" in your home and for me the maintenance(therapy) of changing water and sorting fry or attempting breeding is the greatest reward of all.There is a "break in" period and small learning curve but none of this is rocket science,especially with all the help the great members of this forum have to offer.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Tank is Planted now 

Anacharis and Hygrophilia I am kinda worried I over planted though... 


SHOULD be good for moderate light.. If I am reading stuff correctly The living room gets LOTS of light and the two 25 watt LED equivalents.


Did a 50 percent water change as suggested... Oh and My hands smell like fish tank... *r2

What is odd though... my fish hang out at the bottom of the tank all kind of clumped together like they are smokers hanging out in the cold, rather than swim around. Their fins are all up and look in good shape and I don't see any white spots or red. Its ODD of course there isnt much of a water column in 15 gallons either and one can not discount the possibility I have weird fish.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

joecrouse said:


> Tank is Planted now
> 
> Anacharis and Hygrophilia I am kinda worried I over planted though...
> 
> ...


With the water change and new plants it will take them a lil to get used to things again no worries keep up the readings and water changes as needed


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I think i might have figured out what was freaking out my fish. My dog staring down the fish and bouncing around the living room that might have been spooking them. every time she bounces up and down the room does and because the fish tank is sitting on a shelf the whole tank picks up the vibration from the floor. I'll ask my dad if he knows where I can pick up some thick Neoprene to put under the tank that should dampen the vibration and I think I will build a stand for this thing that is something OTHER than my Shelf for National Geographics.

oh and That last water change and putting the plants in...

Ammonia/ammonium at .25 
Nitrites under 1 and Nitrates under 10ppm 
Alkalinity MIGHT be a tad low... 
Everything else is about perfect.. ph is at 7-7.2..
If it stays there a week im going to add 2 more fish. Something interesting but easy to keep.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Before you add more fish you may want to wait until nitrite and ammonia is 0ppm.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Ummm I think I don't have to add more fish... 

There are 2-3 baby swords in my tank... I don't know where they came from... well I do but... the conditions should be even CLOSE to right for that to happen. 

DAMN IT I TOLD THE DAMN FISH TO WEAR PROTECTION! *r2

Is someone Near Havre De Grace able to help me out and take these fry off my hands??? Like Tommorow I don't have ANYTHING they could eat. and I don't have a segregation net.

Drop me a line at my yahoo or my Gmail address. If you can take care of em you can have em...


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

I've gotten the ammonia down to zero and my nitrites down to 1ppm Nitrates are at 15-20 ppm I went out this weekend gotten a foam and charcoal pre filter as I am having an issue with cloudyness. I also picked up a filter unit and heater for a 5 gallon enlongated hexigon that I am setting up as a hospital isolation and fry tank that I am running through a nitrogen cycle. 

I seem to have gotten at least 2 fry from my sword tails that are at least 3/16th an inch long. (visible to me with 1 good eye from accross the room) I'd like to try to move them out of the main tank to somewhere safe from thier canibalistic parrents before they get eaten.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Tanks usually clear once they are free of ammonia and nitrites.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

There are now 5 Sword fry in my tank...


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

2 weeks ammonia zero nitrites zero Nitrates >10 

I do believe it is Cycled. 

Casualties.. 

1 Cory Cat 

1 Red Crab 

Both Gourami... (The Gourami I think were actually my fault in poor stocking choices) the Cory died within a day of bringing them home probably tank shock. The red crab was obviously assassinated (torn apart after he moulted)

I may get a new slightly more aggressive Gourami as i think the swords bullied the last one to death as he hid in the rock castle and wouldn't eat. And my male sword is a bit of a prick...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If the two Gourami were dwarfs, they probably killed each other. You can't put two in a smaller sized tank and can possibly have the same issues in larger tanks.


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

Yep I own up to that... poor stocking choice Dwarf Gourami are also not the most hardy fish. 


I got the water parameters nearly perfect in that tank so I went and added 2 more cory cats and another fish of type eludes me at the moment (gotta look it up or get a good picture)


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## joecrouse (Feb 3, 2014)

also my 5 gallon long hexagon is up and running... perfect parameters 0-0-15ppm nitrates (I put a few buds of my plants from my main tank in there a few days ago and a bubble system to give the water PLENTY of oxygen)

I stocked it with 2 neons 2 rummy nose and a very small oto cat
and 3 of the larger swordtail fry to that tank to see how they will do with the slightly more acidic water. (it also gives the neons something to chase)

My oto cat seems to NOT like the two shelters I installed for it.. would rather suck face on the wall of the tank than hang out in two dark man made caves.


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