# Driftwood - fish gasping for air???



## apatel40

Hi there,

I bought some driftwood from local shop (two quite large pieces). I washed them before putting them in my malawi tank. Firstly the water turned brown due to tannins so I removed the wood (also floats which is annoying) and soaked it for a week. After a week I put the wood back in the tank and it the water did not change colour BUT after one night the fish were gasping for air and a few had died! I took the wood out soaked it for a couple more days and again after one night the fish were all at the top gasping for air!!

What is going on?????

In the tank all I have is aquarium sand, power head with air supply and filter and some plants.

Please help to stop more fish dying (obviously I have removed the wood until a resolution can be reached)


----------



## mk4gti

Maybe the wood is lowering your PH too much, i dont know much about malawis but i know that africans prefer hard water. The tannis in driftwood, especially new drift wood, could significantly lower the PH. I think this is why you see most African tanks decorated with rocks and caves rather than driftwood.


----------



## jbrown5217

Yep I am going to agree with mk on this one. This is one of those extremely rare cases where ph actually matters. 

Basically your fish got used to a specific ph and then when you added the driftwood, it drastically changed and shocked some of your fish. They simply died from stress. 

If you had added the driftwood before you added any fish you would have probably been fine. I suggest testing your ph for a few weeks every other day to make sure that it stays at consistent levels.


----------



## Goby

I love driftwood and have used it. But IMO, as beautiful as it is, placing driftwood in an aquarium is always a gamble. Technically speaking, the driftwood in the aquatic section of LFS's _should_ be aquarium ready. That being said, sadly, not all driftwood in the aquatic section of LFS's is meant for aquarium use. My own LFS has a big box of beautiful driftwood that they sell by the pound, and it is without labels of any sort. Who knows how it's been treated? If it's been treated? To answer your question, certain toxins that have soaked into certain pieces of driftwood absolutely can kill fish. The tannins are usually harmless (I think) but don't quote me on that...research research research. I can say that I personally have not lost fish in water that was tannin-stained. There is also a chance the wood caused your ph to fall and that may have killed the fish...not sure if that is caused by the tannins though. :O(

Theoretically speaking...if I bought some "aquarium safe" driftwood, I would boil it for several hours...a minimum of 8 and as long as 24. Then I would run it through the dishwater many times (water only)...and then I would soak it for a few days in some water w/ conditioner. By this point, most driftwood will sink to the bottom of the pail and then rest nicely in the tank. But some pieces take a very long time to sink and some may never sink and will need to be weighted down.

There are many aquarists that would never put a piece of driftwood in their tank.

Good luck! I love the look of driftwood too!


----------



## jbrown5217

Tannins don't hurt fish, but they can and will lower the ph of the water in the tank. This is why I suspect shock/stress over chemically treated driftwood. I have driftwood in two of my tanks and it looks very nice and there should be no issue as long as you boil or soak it for a good period of time.


----------



## susankat

Tannins from the wood will not lower ph that much over night, It will take days to do that. When fish are gasping at the top its usually an indication that there isn't enough o2 in the tank. 

What kind of filtration are you using? Is it splashing the top of the water as it falls in?


----------



## majerah1

I use driftwood in my tanks,some leeches and some doesnt.AAs Susan stated the ph drop is very gradual so I dont think the issue is the wood.And also as stated gasping is from lack of oxygen.

Wats the other params?Ammonia,Nitrite,Nitrate?


----------



## navigator black

Malawis and wood do not mix. These are fish from mineral loaded lakes with high alkalinity (pH 7.8 to above 8). Driftwood is a wonderful way to acidify water and drop pH - I use it all the time with rainforest fish, but I wouldn't put it near a Malawi tank unless it was so old it was leached out. Even then, it is a completely artificial element iin the lives of rock dwellers like the usual Malawis. Your fish are highly specialized for an extreme environment (extra hard water), and you accidentally created conditions they can't handle.The wood won't have dropped the hardness, but Malawis hate tannins.


----------



## apatel40

Thanks for the replies people. It is just very strange how both times I have put the wood in overnight the fish in the morning are all desperate for oxygen and appear "drunk". I thought maybe the wood has taken out all the oxygen from the water but the most likely cause is the ph drop I guess? Would fish go for air if the water is acidic. 

I also had a lobster in the tank that died after placing the wood in the tank.


----------



## Goby

If the ph actually did drop (although some have said it couldn't drop that fast and they may have a point)...but if it did drop, science 101 is that the oxygen level also dropped. As someone else suggested...perhaps that particular fish species is ph sensitive? Could the O2 levels have already been low?


----------



## SuckMyCichlids

Wouldn't using an agoronite substrate keep the ph at higher levels with driftwood?


----------



## piklmike

WELL! I am glad I did not buy any "DRIFTWOOD" today for my 75G. with Tony the Tiger Oscar, 8+in. less than a year old, tank buddies, 4in. pleco, 3in. algea eater. Would not be a happy camper if it caused any undue stress for Tony!


----------



## navigator black

Tony is a South American fish, and would love the tannins from driftwood. The pleco would love driftwood too.
They are both forest fish with wood as part of the natural habitat, and soft, acidic natural water.
The fish in trouble here are Malawis - from a lake with next to no wood in it, lots of rock, minerals galore and highly alkaline water. They have evolved to fit their extreme environment, but that has locked them in. The rivers of Africa are mainly rainforest, but Malawi cichlids can't move out into them.
You have to know where your fish come from to know how to care for them. Oscars and Malawis may both be cichlids, but they come from worlds apart. I really doubt an Oscar would be anything but delighted at a nice, tannin leaching hunk of wood.


----------



## Summer

Is there any chance that your driftwood has been treated with something? I've heard some pieces suited for reptiles are not safe for in an aquarium.


----------



## piklmike

navigator black said:


> Tony is a South American fish, and would love the tannins from driftwood. The pleco would love driftwood too.
> They are both forest fish with wood as part of the natural habitat, and soft, acidic natural water.
> The fish in trouble here are Malawis - from a lake with next to no wood in it, lots of rock, minerals galore and highly alkaline water. They have evolved to fit their extreme environment, but that has locked them in. The rivers of Africa are mainly rainforest, but Malawi cichlids can't move out into them.
> You have to know where your fish come from to know how to care for them. Oscars and Malawis may both be cichlids, but they come from worlds apart. I really doubt an Oscar would be anything but delighted at a nice, tannin leaching hunk of wood.


I know. Thats why I was out looking for a piece. I didn't know that about the Malawis cichlids though, but I've never had any either. Nice bit of info to store away for future reference. Thanks!


----------

