# Platy or Swordtail?



## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

So i was down at my LFS and saw this trio alone, and they were marked Swordtails, but im not quite sure if they are when im looking at pictures of the traditional Swordtails. Can anyone identify these? Thanks!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

They look like juvenile swordtails - the usual helleri/variatus/maculatus crosses. They look young though, and very healthy. The maculatus in them shows with the higher body. If I'm right, the swords are in development at that age, and you should see them soon.

The one on top looks like it'll be a male, and there's another probable male in front.


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

Alright, ill keep an eye out to see if they get anymore in stock, any tips on how to sex them for future use? id prefer to get more females if there are two males.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Swordtails are hard to sex. Before anyone spits their coffee laughing, hear me out...
They sex out in two waves - one at around 3 months, and one at upwards of a year. One of my wild swordtail species, Xiphophorus maeyi, produced males at 14 months. I keep unpopular wild sword species, which are greenish, and you can sex them by their pigmentation before they develop gonopodiums (the modified anal fin/sex organ) long before they are sworded. The red/orange and other dark bodied swords have all the clues covered up. 
Look for the heavist bodied fish. The anal fin should have a triangular shape. If it is very thick on the side toward the fishes' head, it's a boy in waiting. If the anal fin is large and rounded, chances are good of a female. 
I just had two Mexican helleri swords that I was sure were females - full grown, deep bodied fish - develop gonopodiums. It can be a pain when you are into breeding them - or selling them. I'm always nervous shipping swords to friends, as you can get it wrong when they are young.


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

So, ive noticed that the third one, (i had origonally only saw two in the LFS tank, and this one came out of nowhere) has been lethargic and just laying in a corner or under the ledge in my log. i added some stress coat to my tank last night, but he's still this way almost 24 hours later, and was wondering if it was just him/her being lazy or was some sort of sick. its the one in the above picture with his/her nose in the corner of the bag behind the other swordtail. ill try to get a new picture of em if i can to help


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

So this is the little guy, i had to nudge him with my net to get him tucked out of the corner for a decent picture. Sorry about the glare!








This is how he's normally laying in a corner or against a plant or log.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a he, and a sick one. I can't say what's wrong, but he has lost weight, and looks very shaky. Sad to say, with the fins clamped like that, the curve in the back and the dullness to his colour, he could be a photo of the fish you should never buy. 
Possibly, as the third male, he may just have lost too many fights. Male swords are very hard on each other, and on the fish that ends up on the bottom of the pecking order. 
Maybe if you can coax him to eat, he could rally.


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

Alright ill see what i can do, i might move my betta into the 1g for a while and put this guy in the ten and see if i can get him eating, but im not sure yet... i hope he does make it though, loosing fish always sucks, especially new ones =(


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## allllien (Apr 6, 2012)

They all look like females to me, sometimes when they're sick or scared they hold their anal fin against their body and it can look like a gonopodium when it actually isn't. They look a bit too big to be juvenile males, but it is still a possibility  Definitely Swordtails and not Platys though  I can tell by their shape. Sorry she/he's not doing too well though  

I have these Platy/ Swords that I just don't know what they are either! They develop a gonopodium at about 1.5cm in size, perhaps at a month or 2 old?? They stay small, 2cm -2.5cm (max) and don't grow any bigger than this. I assume Platys because they don't have a 'sword', but they look like mini swordtails apart from that -perhaps a cross between the 2 but it still doesn't explain their tiny size? Or their unusual color which is a pale, see-thu, yellow. The original one was male and bred with my swords and/or Platys, with the fry looking almost identical to the original male, they don't really seem to have traits from the females which is unusual. 

The original male came from a 'feeder fish' tank full of mixed livebearers -I just liked his color because I hadn't seen it before, he was only about 1.5cm in size when I bought him and already had a large gonopodium.

Could he be a different species of livebearer? If so, does anyone have any possible suggestions?

(Sorry, I don't mean to crash your thread, just thought it was related)


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch them for velvet (oodinium) a skin parasite. It'll make them go like that. It's like a rusty little film on the skin that shows more on the back, behind the head. Swords are very prone to that if their water is too soft. 

alllien, if you can get a picture - my interest in livebearers is wild-types and I might be able to ID the fish. The big gonopodium on a small body is common on a lot of other livebearers, so if it isn't a swordtail I might be able to make an educated guess. Lots of cool things get into feeder ponds - Heterandria, Gambusia etc.


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## Krymsyn (Apr 6, 2012)

So im sad to report, after lasting a very long 48 hours, the little guy didnt make it =/


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## z1200 (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm a livebearer guy and have lost a couple fish after purchasing them, it happens sometimes but less often if you look for velvet, ich, clamped fins and other things like that. Look for healthy, active fish that swim without difficulty or act stressed and you should be alright.


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## allllien (Apr 6, 2012)

Sorry to hear that, I hope the others are still doing well.

Navigator black, thanks for that, I'll add some photos of the mystery fish.
The original male is the brightest yellow one, and he bred with my Swordtails and/or Platys, resulting in very similar, tiny fish.


Aquarium Gallery - Unknown livebearers / miniature Platys

Aquarium Gallery - Unknown livebearers / miniature Platys

Aquarium Gallery - Unknown livebearers / miniature Platys


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

He's nothing wild, and he appears to be a domestic platy. It's a delicate looking fish - kind of nice. 
Wild maculatus platys are beyond rare in the hobby - I know no one who keeps them. But there were domestic 'salt and pepper' strains in the 1970s (I've had fish for awhile) that were that size naturally. The males had a different shape from the 'moon' platys of the time, and were very compact. So the potential for small size is in the genes. 
The pet trade has done the same thing with platys as with guppies - they have worked on breeding for much larger fish. I see immature platys in stores that are bigger than the biggest adults available when I was really into platys in my teens. I wonder if your fish is a throwback genetically - an old form that got through the fish farm's culling process?


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## allllien (Apr 6, 2012)

navigator black said:


> He's nothing wild, and he appears to be a domestic platy. It's a delicate looking fish - kind of nice.
> Wild maculatus platys are beyond rare in the hobby - I know no one who keeps them. But there were domestic 'salt and pepper' strains in the 1970s (I've had fish for awhile) that were that size naturally. The males had a different shape from the 'moon' platys of the time, and were very compact. So the potential for small size is in the genes.
> The pet trade has done the same thing with platys as with guppies - they have worked on breeding for much larger fish. I see immature platys in stores that are bigger than the biggest adults available when I was really into platys in my teens. I wonder if your fish is a throwback genetically - an old form that got through the fish farm's culling process?


I agree, I don't think he's anything wild, but I'm leaning towards platy/swordtail hybrid I think. I think I know the smaller salt & pepper Platys your talking about, I have one thats sort of a see thru apricot color speckled with orange and it's smaller than the regular shop bought Platys, but I don't think he's a throwback genetically to these -there's something a bit different about him and his fry that I can't really put my finger on, they're delicate looking fish as you pointed out, which Platys aren't really, but I don't think it's just their size making them look delicate? Either way, I find them quite nice looking fish  

Ah, and the other thing is the size of the males gonopodiums are really long like Gambusia -I haven't seen that in Platys before, have you? But like you, I was *certain* he was just a little Platy when I first saw him lol. There's just something different about him (besides being tiny) that I cant quite make out lol


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