# New to planted tanks



## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

:fish9: I have had a 260l tank for many years and have had my ups and downs but have learnt from my mistakes. The last couple of years all has been well and fish are all happy and healthy. Vacuum sand once every two weeks (alternating sides of the tank), 30% water change twice a week (I have a well stocked tank and all is well with the extra work) ALL PLASTIC PLANTS!! I hate them! Tired of cleaning them! So I finally took the (expensive) plunge and went all out on a planted tank. Two months later and WOW, what a difference. I just love my new décor sooo much. So do my fish. My question is: I do not vacuum anymore but still do a 30% water change twice a week. Nitrates less then 10g. Everything looks awesome. Filter clean when it looks necessary. (Boyu out of tank filter) My PH used to sit on a steady 6.5 - 7.0 but since adding new soil and plants the PH has climbed and is currently on 8.0. I am getting very worried because the fish I keep all want an ideal of about 6 to 8ph. Why is my PH climbing and what can I do to bring it back to at least 7? Is it the new soil? The plants? I just don't know. Please, I am open to any suggestions. *c/p*


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## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

it could be the soil, what did you put in there? Thats quite a PH jump... the plants won't cause it, not that I know of anyways. I use flourish for my plants with sand on top and my pH is still about 7.6.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ya the plants won't play with your pH at all, have you added anything else? And what kind of sand did you use, cause I haven't really heard of sand changing pH either.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like possibly a bad substrate choice. Plants do change the ph to a small degree as they use up the CO2 in the water, but that should be fairly slight.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

m8d said:


> it could be the soil, what did you put in there? Thats quite a PH jump... the plants won't cause it, not that I know of anyways. I use flourish for my plants with sand on top and my pH is still about 7.6.


Umm, Not sure except it cost me a fortune!! *r2 It was ready washed and came in a sealed bag. An imported product and supposed to be excellent according to my supplier (an very up to date aquarium store that I use). Will go and see them today and see what they have to say. :fish-in-a-bag:


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> Sounds like possibly a bad substrate choice. Plants do change the ph to a small degree as they use up the CO2 in the water, but that should be fairly slight.


That is what a fellow fish hobbyist told me as well. Will keep a close watch on it.


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## m8d (Jan 9, 2013)

yeah I'd ask them if the substrate has anything in it that can alter the pH. I'm 99% sure that the pH raise is due to that new substrate.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> Sounds like possibly a bad substrate choice. Plants do change the ph to a small degree as they use up the CO2 in the water, but that should be fairly slight.


Also use flourish for my plants.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

m8d said:


> yeah I'd ask them if the substrate has anything in it that can alter the pH. I'm 99% sure that the pH raise is due to that new substrate.


Will definitely do so. Thanks very much.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

hotwingz said:


> Ya the plants won't play with your pH at all, have you added anything else? And what kind of sand did you use, cause I haven't really heard of sand changing pH either.


It was a soil substrate in a sealed bag packaged and sold especially for planted tanks. Will be going to see the supplier today. Thanks for the reply,:fish-in-a-bag:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Can you give the brand name? See if the bag says anything about keeping African cichlids. That type drives the ph to an 8.0 range.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> Can you give the brand name? See if the bag says anything about keeping African cichlids. That type drives the ph to an 8.0 range.


So sorry. I disposed of it. I have been keeping a close watch on the ph and I must say that it is dropping slightly again. I don't want it to drop too fast because that will just create other problems. So far so good. :fish9:


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

Angel said:


> So sorry. I disposed of it. I have been keeping a close watch on the ph and I must say that it is dropping slightly again. I don't want it to drop too fast because that will just create other problems. So far so good. :fish9:


Have just contacted the supplier of the substrate and it's called ECO PLANT made in America.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like Eco-complete. Is it black, has small amount of liquid in the bag, and comes with this stuff to add to your water to help clear it?


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> Sounds like Eco-complete. Is it black, has small amount of liquid in the bag, and comes with this stuff to add to your water to help clear it?


Hi. No it's reddish brown. Was prewashed and did come in a bag with a small amount of liquid.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Without knowing for sure, I'm about 90% confident it's your plants consuming CO2 that is driving the pH up. pH swings based on CO2 concentration in the water - the less CO2, the higher the pH, and vice versa. Try turning your light off for 24 hours and testing the water to see if the pH has changed - plants don't consume CO2 with the lights off.

I'm very confident about this because it's exactly what happened in my tanks - I started injecting CO2 and the pH plummeted to 6.6-7.0. Before, pH was in the 7.6-8.2 range.

Also, to establish a baseline, test your tap water straight out of the faucet, and test tap water after you've let it sit in a bowl on the counter for 24 hours - tap water can have a lower pH when it comes fresh out of the tap due to large quantities of CO2 mixed in during distribution from the treatment facility to your house, which subsequently gasses out of the water when it's left to sit, resulting in a slight elevation in pH.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Gizmo the reason you get such a drastic ph change the other way is that you are moving co2 from 4ppm to 20-30 ppm, but using up 4ppm should not alter it as drastically.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

Gizmo said:


> Without knowing for sure, I'm about 90% confident it's your plants consuming CO2 that is driving the pH up. pH swings based on CO2 concentration in the water - the less CO2, the higher the pH, and vice versa. Try turning your light off for 24 houtrs and testing the water to see if the pH has changed - plants don't consume CO2 with the lights off.
> 
> I'm very confident about this because it's exactly what happened in my tanks - I started injecting CO2 and the pH plummeted to 6.6-7.0. Before, pH was in the 7.6-8.2 range.
> 
> Also, to establish a baseline, test your tap water straight out of the faucet, and test tap water after you've let it sit in a bowl on the counter for 24 hours - tap water can have a lower pH when it comes fresh out of the tap due to large quantities of CO2 mixed in during distribution from the treatment facility to your house, which subsequently gasses out of the water when it's left to sit, resulting in a slight elevation in pH.


That makes sense to me! Since I have introduced plants to my tank I have been leaving the lights on for longer. :fish10:


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Got to say I have had plants in my 180 for years.My pH was always consistent(7.6) even with my true lumen pros on for 12-14 hours a day(these are among the most powerful LEDS).The never had any effect on my pH.I do now inject co2 also and drop my ph to 6-6.2(I use a controller and alot of co2) and only run my lights for 7-8 hours but before and after lights the co2 is off and my pH returns to 7.2-7.4.
On the notion the plants would use up co2 and raise your pH the use up o2 when lights are out and thus would lower oxygen in the same ratio that they use co2 during the day.IMO it would even out and the plants are not the cause of the pH spike.
Have you tested your source as others recommend?And again 24 hours later.Maybe even try testing 24 hours later with a bubbler?(to help outgas and simulate tank enviroment).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Plants will consume CO2 in the water but the levels will return when the lights go out as the plants respirate. You should only see slight differences, like .2 or something, at the end of your light cycle as compared to the beginning of the cycle.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> Without knowing for sure, I'm about 90% confident it's your plants consuming CO2 that is driving the pH up. pH swings based on CO2 concentration in the water - the less CO2, the higher the pH, and vice versa. Try turning your light off for 24 hours and testing the water to see if the pH has changed - plants don't consume CO2 with the lights off.
> 
> I'm very confident about this because it's exactly what happened in my tanks - I started injecting CO2 and the pH plummeted to 6.6-7.0. Before, pH was in the 7.6-8.2 range.
> 
> Also, to establish a baseline, test your tap water straight out of the faucet, and test tap water after you've let it sit in a bowl on the counter for 24 hours - tap water can have a lower pH when it comes fresh out of the tap due to large quantities of CO2 mixed in during distribution from the treatment facility to your house, which subsequently gasses out of the water when it's left to sit, resulting in a slight elevation in pH.


Have you ever measured differences during the light cycle in a non-injected tank?

I am sure that your ph did start to drop quite a bit once you started injecting CO2, same as anyone injecting. However, not sure how that explains anything here.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Plants will consume CO2 in the water but the levels will return when the lights go out as the plants respirate. You should only see slight differences, like .2 or something, at the end of your light cycle as compared to the beginning of the cycle.


Depends on KH, or carbonate hardness (buffering capacity) right?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Have you ever measured differences during the light cycle in a non-injected tank?
> 
> I am sure that your ph did start to drop quite a bit once you started injecting CO2, same as anyone injecting. However, not sure how that explains anything here.


I have not. Before I started injecting CO2, I had no idea what a pH swing was.

FWIW, I used CO2 injection to show how drastic the change can be. For example's sake only. I'm not sure if it explains anything, but it might be enlightening if pH swing is the culprit. That's an IF though. No guarantees, as I'm no expert.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

Angel said:


> :fish9: I have had a 260l tank for many years and have had my ups and downs but have learnt from my mistakes. The last couple of years all has been well and fish are all happy and healthy. Vacuum sand once every two weeks (alternating sides of the tank), 30% water change twice a week (I have a well stocked tank and all is well with the extra work) ALL PLASTIC PLANTS!! I hate them! Tired of cleaning them! So I finally took the (expensive) plunge and went all out on a planted tank. Two months later and WOW, what a difference. I just love my new décor sooo much. So do my fish. My question is: I do not vacuum anymore but still do a 30% water change twice a week. Nitrates less then 10g. Everything looks awesome. Filter clean when it looks necessary. (Boyu out of tank filter) My PH used to sit on a steady 6.5 - 7.0 but since adding new soil and plants the PH has climbed and is currently on 8.0. I am getting very worried because the fish I keep all want an ideal of about 6 to 8ph. Why is my PH climbing and what can I do to bring it back to at least 7? Is it the new soil? The plants? I just don't know. Please, I am open to any suggestions. *c/p*



Thank you so much to every one who gave me advice. I am pleased to say that my PH is now 7 and my tank and I are very happy!! I was giving too much light and since cutting down a few hours the PH gradually dropped to an acceptable level!! :fish-in-a-bag:


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

Gizmo said:


> Without knowing for sure, I'm about 90% confident it's your plants consuming CO2 that is driving the pH up. pH swings based on CO2 concentration in the water - the less CO2, the higher the pH, and vice versa. Try turning your light off for 24 hours and testing the water to see if the pH has changed - plants don't consume CO2 with the lights off.
> 
> I'm very confident about this because it's exactly what happened in my tanks - I started injecting CO2 and the pH plummeted to 6.6-7.0. Before, pH was in the 7.6-8.2 range.
> 
> Also, to establish a baseline, test your tap water straight out of the faucet, and test tap water after you've let it sit in a bowl on the counter for 24 hours - tap water can have a lower pH when it comes fresh out of the tap due to large quantities of CO2 mixed in during distribution from the treatment facility to your house, which subsequently gasses out of the water when it's left to sit, resulting in a slight elevation in pH.


 Thanks so much! I followed your advice and after a few days my PH is now an acceptable 7! So pleased you answered my plea for help!!!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> Depends on KH, or carbonate hardness (buffering capacity) right?


No. Kh does not stop the ph from moving, especially here where we are talking about plants removing an acid (CO2).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Angel - do you have a kh test kit? Unless you have a lot of plants in your tank, my guess is they are not causing any kind of swing in your tank. I have only measured minimal differences and this tank was loaded with plants. Your ph should change slightly at best. If it is swinging as much as you state, you have other issues going on that may end up killing your fish due to large ph swings. If the tank is a low kh it could decide to swing one direction and not stop. Without knowing what your kh is, you will never get to the root of the cause. API makes a gh/kh test kit.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> Angel - do you have a kh test kit? Unless you have a lot of plants in your tank, my guess is they are not causing any kind of swing in your tank. I have only measured minimal differences and this tank was loaded with plants. Your ph should change slightly at best. If it is swinging as much as you state, you have other issues going on that may end up killing your fish due to large ph swings. If the tank is a low kh it could decide to swing one direction and not stop. Without knowing what your kh is, you will never get to the root of the cause. API makes a gh/kh test kit.


I will contact my dealer and ask if they stock this kit. I am sure they do. Will let you know what happens. Have lost a Rainbow Boesmani since planting the tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Have you made any waterchanges?I still really think it was from your substrate and you could just be removing some of the "buffers" from the water column.


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## Angel (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice! You are all so helpful in here. My PH seems to be stable now on 7, nitrates <10. Plants and fish all look good. Besides my twice weekly water change I am now going to leave it alone and just keep a very close watch on everything.:fish5:


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