# Help identify problem - Regal Tang



## SH4D0W

Hi Guys, 

I am hoping someone will be able to help and point me in the right direction, My tank is about 2 years old and has never seen any diseases (that i am aware of), Over the past week my mature Regal Tang has been acting a little strange in that she darts to the bottom of the tank and looks likes she is nibbling at algee, just like shes does when nipping at the rock, only she is going a bit crackers, imagine a dog tugging on a toy moving its head from side to side, well that's how my Regal is looking, She does not appear to be rubbing on anything so i cant see it being ich (im not qualified to make this decision though) she can be absolutely fine and then all of a sudden she will just dart and act up. She is eating ok. 

I have noticed that she has some lumps around her body but i can not see any white spots, a friend came over last night who has kept marine fish for some time and likes to think he a bit of an expert (not to sound patronizing, as he most certainly knows his stuff) he says he thinks it is ich and that my FoxFace appears to have it too and my Clown. I am unable to see it to be fair, but i most certainly can see the lumps on Regal.

There have been NO issues in the life of my tank, i have recently added some Frags from a very well known store, Cockfields, also some pulsing Xenia that i bought of a guy on eBay, i went to collect it and his tank didnt look the most cared for but certainly not a mess by any means, i did not add any of his water to my tank. 
I noticed my regal acting up about a week ago but didnt think much of it at the time. 

I have also added another pair of T5s (i am sure she was the same before i bought them though), i had cleaned my filter media in one of my filters but left the water in it and also replaced the wool at the same time i added some JBL PhosEX Ultra. Again, i am pretty sure Regal was the same before i did this.

I can not be 100% but i think my Regal started like this after i added the Gonipora and Torch from Cockfields.

PLEASE help me chaps! 
I have a BlueSpot Jaw fish that i have had since very young and is my little gem! i must do my best to ensure it remains healthy so i just want to get some advice on my tang and how best to treat any issues i may have.

This was a week or so ago, i am fairly sure she was just starting to act a fool

















and i have taken this just now on my iPhone (sorry for poor quality)





























When i got home last night i had noticed that the tang had got a fair bit worse and was coming out in more spots. Around an hour later i checked back when i had charged my camera to get some pics and i then noticed my Torch had retracted and had all slime coming off of it, i got myself all worried and got photo happy and took over 800 photos of my tank in 30 minutes! my Tang was eating all the slime looking stuff that the Torch was producing. 

I have also noticed a white dot on my Mandarin but i am not sure if it has been there since day dot or weather it is recent. 

I turned all of my powerheads off and both filters whilst i fed the fish, i added a lot of garlic to the food and target fed making sure the Tang got plenty, i then fed my A+B for the corals and also target fed them too, my Goni got some and retracted where as the torch didnt look that interested, Any way, ill start a new topic for the Torch.

Here is the link to my album please take a look as there a dozens of shots of the tang so i dont want to post them All here:
Fish Tank Photos by SH4D0WM4NZ | Photobucket

Here are some pics:

























































































































Here are some shots of the other fish, i cant see any signs of the same, can you?


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## coralbandit

It does look like marine ich on tang.You'll need to set up qt if your going to treat as everything that could work , is not safe in reef.Possibly check into UV for your display tank as the ich will find another host when tang is removed.Truely a bummer.I can't recommend a particular treatment as reefing adds so many obstacles to chemical treatments.Hyposalinty(lowering SG{to around1.010-1.013}has been noted to help fish due to osmoregulation) but is as deadly as chemicals to corals and inverts.Will look for other solutions, but mostly wish you luck.Raising temp(82-86) shortens ichs life span in fw.


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## SH4D0W

thanks for the info, i dont think raising the temp is going to be an option as i have a BlueSpot Jawfish, these do not take well to heat...?


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## coralbandit

here's alink I just found ***ICH: HOW TO TREAT: Marine ICH(cryptocaryon irritans) - Reef Central Online Community
there are many ideas out there but this info seemed well recieved and possibly accurate.If not accurate at least helpful.
Many instances of mis diagnoses seem to be as much an issue as stress from water quality and tankmates.Vacumming substrate and many water changes can't hurt as ich leaves host and falls to substrate.Waterchanges(painful{$} as they may be )might be the way to go.Many waterchanges and vacumming instead of medical treatment.Note many claim UV to useless if all water does not pass through(this goes for ozone also).


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## Reefing Madness

Raising the Temp is not going to help you. Hippo Tangs are prone to ICH, and can get rid of it themselves. I've got one myself. And he got it quite often when I was introducing new fish, but never once did I do anything with him. He is fine. I'd watch him, and as long as he is eating, I would do nothing to him. If he stops eating, you may try soaking the food in Garlic-X, as this will entice him. If then he still doesn't eat, then I'd go with Hyposalinity for treatment in another tank.
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com


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## Sully

Wish I could add something here to help. RM an CB know their stuff so hopefully you can beat this. I wish you the best of luck!


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## phys

Its definitely ich. The only thing to get rid of it is quarantining all your fish in a separate tank and using chelated copper for treatment for 8 weeks. If you can't do that, be sure to feed your fish a few times a day for as ling as you see it. Also, prepare for death as it will kill your fish if they can't take the stress. UV can help but you need to run it with a lot of flow to get it all and its not 100%. Garlic is 50/50... Some say it works, others say it doesn't. Reef safe chemicals dont usually work and are prohibitably expensive. While they have it, dont stress them. It'll only decrease their chance of survival.


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## SH4D0W

Thanks to all, what makes you so sure it is ich? 
I do not have another tank that i can set up as a QT tank, i do have Vitimins and Garlic that i have used for some time now. 
Today my Tang looks to be a bit better in that there are not as many spots but i assume this could also mean that they have fallen off and ready to reproduce and find another host?


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## coralbandit

Not sure one can ever be possitive of proper diagnoses,until it's too late.And yes it is possible the ich has laft host to reproduce.Proper nutrition, low stress and attention to cleaning(vacumm gravel if you believe they have fallen off) is the safest,most effective form of trearment in reef.Good water quality and nutrition could solve your problem.Left as is whatever caused symptoms to occur(stress) will probably(I can't be sure,but believe)surely turn out to be full blown outbreak."Curing"ich is easiest early on as less of the pest are present.If allowed to multiply then the issue becomes only that much harder to deal with.Please read both links I and RM provided,they'll provide you the same insight minus experience.


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## Reefing Madness

Its Marine Ich.
Marine Ich


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## LegitFish

Reefing Madness said:


> Raising the Temp is not going to help you. Hippo Tangs are prone to ICH, and can get rid of it themselves. I've got one myself. And he got it quite often when I was introducing new fish, but never once did I do anything with him. He is fine. I'd watch him, and as long as he is eating, I would do nothing to him. If he stops eating, you may try soaking the food in Garlic-X, as this will entice him. If then he still doesn't eat, then I'd go with Hyposalinity for treatment in another tank.
> Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com


This is very true...Blue tangs get this sometimes, but seem to recover pretty quickly by themselves. I highly recommend a UV, and if you have one, when is the last time you changed your bulb? Also, Garlic-X helps a lot...increases their immune system.


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## RareLiveCorals

How often do you perform water changes? What are your water parameters? Temperature? What are you feeding and how often? water flow in total GPH and tank volume? Do you have a refugium? 
Never 100%, especially through picture, but between your descriptions and pictures the best assumption would be ich. The more information you could give me the better we can find the route of the cause and develop the best strategy to help alleviate the stress. Definitely consider cleaner shrimp right away!


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## coralbandit

I held back until reading latest post from RLC (on different topic), but cleaner shrimp have been proven just about useless in curing marine ich and if anyone read the link provided they see this is not my opinion , but consensus.


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## phil_n_fish

It looks like the tang is the only one that looks severe. I agree with Reefing Madness that you shouldn't do anything unless they stop eating. The last thing you would want to do is to stress them out while you try to move them around. 
Dont worry about chemicals since most of them are deadly to inverts and most of the chemicals will be taking in by the skimmer anyway plus some of them will stain silicone and turn it blue or something lol. I would also agree in performing hyposalinity treatment in another tank if the specimen stops eating.


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## RareLiveCorals

coralbandit said:


> I held back until reading latest post from RLC (on different topic), but cleaner shrimp have been proven just about useless in curing marine ich and if anyone read the link provided they see this is not my opinion , but consensus.


Do cleaner shrimp eat parasites? Ich? Oh they do. So smart guy, why would they not be good to use as part of the solution?


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## coralbandit

The trophonts are UNDER the skin so cleaner wrasse and shrimp have no effect.Not my opinion,part of link.There under the skin!
Maybe they'd eat them when they fall to substrate but most who want them gone vacumm to remove them at this stage.
Marine Ich
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
# 10 on the second link; and I'll quote"THE SECOND DUMBEST THING AN AQUARIST CAN THINK IS I'LL GET CLEANER FISH OR SHRIMP TO REMOVE PARASITE".
The link didn't say what the first dumbest thing one could say is;so I guess the ball is back in your court RLC!
I'm not much on name calling(seems a little childish) but if your gonna , get it right:IT'S SMARTER GUY TO YOU!


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## Reefing Madness

RareLiveCorals said:


> Do cleaner shrimp eat parasites? Ich? Oh they do. So smart guy, why would they not be good to use as part of the solution?


Leave it ALONE! You haven't done your homeowork. Go learn a few things before trying to pick an argument.......


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## RareLiveCorals

coralbandit said:


> The trophonts are UNDER the skin so cleaner wrasse and shrimp have no effect.Not my opinion,part of link.There under the skin!
> Maybe they'd eat them when they fall to substrate but most who want them gone vacumm to remove them at this stage.
> Marine Ich
> Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
> # 10 on the second link; and I'll quote"THE SECOND DUMBEST THING AN AQUARIST CAN THINK IS I'LL GET CLEANER FISH OR SHRIMP TO REMOVE PARASITE".
> The link didn't say what the first dumbest thing one could say is;so I guess the ball is back in your court RLC!
> I'm not much on name calling(seems a little childish) but if your gonna , get it right:IT'S SMARTER GUY TO YOU!


Okay, so Coralbandit is one of those. He read something on the internet and all of a sudden it is true and he and Reefing Madness are brilliant reef aquarium geniuses. 
For starters I never said that getting a cleaner shrimp was going to cure an ich problem. I started asking questions and in waiting for a response I recommend a cleaner shrimp for what at first appears to be a miner outbreak.
If you think that a cleaner shrimp or wrasse have no affect on marine ich whatsoever, well that is fine. There are people out there that are never going to believe that we landed on the moon. I am not a believer in running and jumping into medication. There are natural ways to fix and cure things, and better yet there are natural ways to prevent things. I run my thousands of aquariums along the premise of prevention. Tired of two hobbyists who read the internet argue everything as if they are the know all to the aquarium hobby.
Post links to whatever you would like. That will never take away the fact that first hand experience will trump all text book reading, almost all of the time.
[/UPlenty of doctors and scientists told the world that diet has nothing to do with cancer for many many years and called all of the holistic doctors quacks.
Finally Sloan-Kettering memorial cancer hospital came out and endorsed that cancer is most definitely linked to diet.RL] 
There will be plenty of debates out there. If you would like to have one, I am ready whenever you would like. Don't throw some link up and try to discredit me. Have a conversation and learn a little something.


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## coralbandit

make no claim to be 100% correct all the time.I have 8 cleaner shrimp in my reef and they're great.I have never had ich and maybe they should get the credit.I personally think water quality and stress are items that consider the greatest consideration.And not to pick apart anything anyone says;my links were from fellow keepers and not text from money making book writers.I too feel keepers with true hands on experience will offer the best, most usefull info.I mis spoke early in thread by stating raise the heat which further reading indicates is useless with marine ich.The blue hippo is highly suceptable to such infection(among others) due to it's thinner slime coat and it's ntural behavior of swimming upto 25miles in the wild in 1 day(escaping the disease).Again I think cleaner shrimp ARE GREAT, and would not deter anyone from getting them.Along the cancer line;Along with low stress,good quality water I do believe proper nutrition of fish to be very important also.I have no experience using in a expected result type of use, but possibly garlic(made for marine aquaria) would be a worthy addition to all fish diets.RLC I'm not trying to discredit you or argue every thing you say just putting out what my take is.Many have different approaches/techniques yet still achieve almost equall success.I don't think I'm always right and everyone else is wrong ,nor without substantial proof of my opinion or suggestions do I feel offended or the need to admently defend them,never trying anything new or different will not advance or hobby.Not all my advice comes from net,I have kept fish;FW and Marine since around 1986.Much has changed since and I look forward to whatever is next,but I enter unfamiliar waters with some skepticism and an eye for diligent evaluation.


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## Reefing Madness

Cleaners will help to a degree. Only to a degree. Once they've figured out you actually feed the tank, your SOL. Now this doesn't happen to all of them, because they all have different personalities, just like fish. So getting one just because......Well, thats not the way I do things. You want Ich gone, I can do that without smoke and mirrors.......Now, how was that lesson for the day Junior. Don't even think about slamming me, I'll take you to the cleaners. I've seen your PMS and I've saved them......Don't even go there.....Be civil, or go home.


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## Sully

Any updates? Would like to hear how things worked out.


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