# cories, neon tetras, angels dying on office tank!



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

so....my coworker thought it would be convenient to purchase fish from liveaquaria. Seems like a huge mistake as I usually just hand-pick fish from my LFS. 

After introducing 10 sterbae cories (no QT tank in office), they started to die off (a few every day). Then our neons started to die, a few every day. Yesterday we lost an angelfish. Now another cory and tetra today, and I think the remaining angelfish isn't looking good. Hiding at bottom of tank, no appetite..

Water params are good. I have been on top of the water changes. I think it must be a virus. no visible sign of disease whatsoever other than the dead fish seem bloated/pale when I find them in the morning. Definitely not ich. 

Haven't lost any SAEs or rainbowfish, not sure if it's just a matter of time or if they are just immune. 

Is this neon tetra disease or something? Seems like there's not much I can do to stop it! 

Any help would be greatly appreciated....to prevent this tragedy from getting even worse..:-(

Zeke


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

was there any kind of overnight bug spraying or use of toxic chemicals by a cleaning crew?


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Not to my knowledge but I will try to talk to the cleaning people to make sure. Apparently there is a new cleaning crew...so it's *possible* though I think it's improbable.

Zeke


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## brads (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear about your fish. Um, ammonia possibly? Fish will look like yours (no visible sign of disease whatsoever other than the dead fish seem bloated/pale) if that's what happens but you keep up on water changes so not likely. Unfortunately, the damage is already done so I think all you can do now is change the water 3-4 more times. I agree with kalyke and wonder about toxins too so checking the cleaning crews out is a good idea. They could have laid a dirty rag on the tank or something. Probably not but you never know. Oh, I'm with you. I hand pick my fish as well. Mail order fish, no thanks. Where's the fun in that?

Another thought: are your water test chemicals or whatever current? Old stuff sometiomes gives false readings. Just saying.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Thank you for your feedback.

As I said earlier, all the readings are coming out clean (ammonia=0, nitrite=0, pH=7, nitrate<=5ppm. Test kit (API master freshwater test kit) is only a few months old, API test kit.

I carefully did a very aggressive 90% water change today, on top of a 50% change I did yesterday. Hopefully that will help...

I'm thinking it's some sort of internal infection (protozoan or something?), the angelfish's poop was very long/stringy and i also saw fluid coming out (diarrhea?) . 

Zeke


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## brads (Mar 23, 2013)

Great, water is smack on. No offense intended. Does sound a lot more like protozoan's or parasite's now. Here's a little info that may help. Thank you to "Angels Plus"


Angelfish Disease

The following are the diseases that most commonly infect angelfish.

Angelfish Virus: A Potentially deadly disease. It is highly infectious. All exposed angelfish that are not immune will come down with symptoms within 2-3 days of exposure, usually quicker. If you suspect that a quarantined fish has this, you should destroy the fish. The risk is too great to keep such a fish around. There is no medication for this virus. The fish's immune system must be relied upon for the cure. Symptoms: Clamped fins, excess slime, listless with nose pointed up slightly, usually towards the back of the aquarium. It has an approximately 3 week infectious period. This disease is so undesirable, because if an angelfish survives the virus, it will likely become a carrier for up to six months. This can put an angelfish breeding operation out of business very quickly. These symptoms can also be caused by other infectious diseases which may be secondary or tertiary infections, that are unrelated to the virus. The object is to keep the angelfish comfortable while giving the immune system time to kick in. Remove any bright lights from the aquarium and treat with an antibiotic to prevent secondary infections.

Flagellates: Protozoans such as these cause persistent trouble in situations where angelfish are stressed. Hexamita is one that is very prevalent. It is thought to be present in all angelfish, at least in small numbers, and an outbreak is what you're trying to prevent. It appears to explode in numbers if the fish are too crowded, overfed or being overly stressed by some other situation in the aquarium. Stressing your angelfish, is what you need to avoid. Symptoms: If the angelfish is still eating, they will pass a white, chalky feces. Appetite will decrease. No external symptoms will appear on the angelfish. They are prone to secondary infections of bacteria and other parasites when in this weakened condition. To cure, relieve stress and then raise the tank temperature to 95° F for 7-10 days and medicate with metronidazole, or a medicated food that contains it.

Angelfish Parasites: The ones that cause the biggest problems with angelfish are a nematode known as Capillaria, and gill flukes. Many others can be present, but these two are the most common. The only way to positively identify a parasite, is to have a microscope and the know-how to examine gill samples, skin scraping, and fecal samples. This is beyond the average aquarist, so I generally recommend a heat treatment to help the angelfish fend off the parasitic infestation. Try 95° F. for 7-10 days if you suspect a parasite. If there is no response within that time, then it is likely something else, or a combination of pathogens.

Capillaria symptoms: The infected angelfish will have no appetite. They will commonly mouth their fish food and spit it out. The angelfish get progressively thinner until they die. Capillaria is a round worm that is hair-like, and up to an inch long. It is diagnosed by worm eggs in the feces. The worm egg is oval with a cork-like plug in each end. Severe capillaria infections are almost always accompanied with outbreaks of hexamita in the infected angelfish. This makes diagnosis and treatment even more difficult. For gill flukes, capillaria, or nematodes, treat with a medicated flake designed to de-worm.

Angelfish Medicine Cabinet: If you need to order medications after your angelfish have a problem, it may be too late. It's a good idea to have the basic medications on hand. Keep them stored cool, dry and dark and they will last long past the normal expiration dates. This is what we recommend that you have in your angelfish care arsenal.
•Disease Dip - Disinfectant for wounds, scrapes & abrasions.
•Broad spectrum Antibiotic - A couple to cover a wider range
•Internal parasite eliminator - Metronidazole, Praziquantel and Fenbendazole are the main medications.
•Metronidazole - To combat hexamita and spironucleus, two protozoans that are common problems.
•Ich Control - use No-ParaIch.
•Medicated Foods designed to treat bacteria, worms and flagellates. 
•Although there are many other valuable medications, these will cover most of the more common angelfish problems. The medicated foods are especially important.

Aquarium Temperature for Fish Disease Treatment: As stated above, high temperatures are useful when treating parasite problems. Be careful, for there are many people who recommend heat for bacterial or viral infections. Their poor advice will most likely kill your angelfish. Bacteria and viruses thrive at higher temperatures and multiply at much faster rates. If you suspect an external bacterial problem, treatment is the application of the proper antibiotic. This can only be determined by culturing the bacteria in an incubator, identifying it, and then testing to see what anti-biotic will kill it. If you can't do that, then start out with broad spectrum antibiotics such as Kanamycin Sulfate or Bifuran. Sometimes, combinations of antibiotics are good choices to broaden the treatment even further. If it's an internal bacteria, identification of the bacteria will require an angelfish to be sacrificed in order to get a fresh sample of the internal bacteria. Treatment for internal bacteria must be by intramuscular injection or by feeding a medicated fish food with the proper antibiotic in it. In some cases a skin-adsorbing antibiotic such as Kanamycin will work, but it is no going to be as effective as getting the antibiotic into the fish's body. Of course, the angelfish must be eating well for a medicated fish food to work. 

Angelfish Diseases References: A few of the better books for learning more about this topic are The Manual of Fish Health and Aquariology, both put out by Tetra. Also a TFH book, Discus Health, is a very good reference. These books are likely out of print at this time, but worth looking for.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Thank you, no offense taken. This is very helpful information. 

I'll hope things go OK during the weekend while I'm out... Will give update Monday.

Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

update:

as expected, angelfish died over the weekend. found a skeleton on the bottom of the tank. Lost a few more neons too....Sigh

Zeke


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

I was thinking more like a "bug Bomb." You need to cover tanks with cling wrap.


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## brads (Mar 23, 2013)

Sounds like it's time to ask the experts. Here's a link that might help. Scroll down to Getting immediate help for your specific problem.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1ZzADA&usg=AFQjCNGwAa6Mbppf9NToSi7T73aBxq5ekQ


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Turns out they were spraying for roaches the last 2 weeks. Wonder if that caused issues...

Still think the most likely culprit is the cories, though it certainly could be a combination of factors.

Zeke


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## brads (Mar 23, 2013)

zwanged said:


> Turns out they were spraying for roaches the last 2 weeks. Wonder if that caused issues...
> 
> Still think the most likely culprit is the cories, though it certainly could be a combination of factors.
> 
> Zeke


Insecticide, yeah that's it. Brings back bad memories for me. Made a huge mistake by spraying for wasps in area around my pond years ago. Had fish in my pond. They became lethargic in a few days and all but one died in a week. Unfortunately you'll never prove it but... Nothing you can do now but hope some survive.


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## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

I was also thinking about old pipes have copper and lead in them. Well I guess it is awful for the fish but good to have a potential culprit. Whatever the case, you need to be notified of any spraying in advance. Sadly you may also go for a planted tank without fish, if it is for ornamental purposes.


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## R.Shakelford (Jul 17, 2015)

water temperature?


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