# What to do if I can't find ammonia for fishless cycle???



## paisley (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok, I am going to give as much info as I can so that you fish pro's :fish-in-a-bag: can give me some advice I have NEVER had a fish tank before! My daughter got a betta in a 2 Liter cube thing for her b-day and it got sick. We have never owned fish and did not know that they need water changes BEFORE the water begins to 'look' dirty. So the fish stopped being active and started sitting at the top of the tank. I re-searched online and found out they need a much bigger tank or daily water changes. I began changing his water daily and put his cube in a warmer area. He still wasn't looking good and his fins seemed to be melting together or something.? I began dosing him with cephaliexin and doing the daily water changes. He just finished his 10 day course of antibiotics. He is doing a LOT better and began eating/pooping again So while all of this was going on we were given a 10g tank with Aqueon 10g filter and light. We put rock in the bottom of the tank. The rock was eco rock with added conditioners etc. We are on well water that had a 6.2-6.8 pH with 10ppm nitrates. We then filled the tank with water and began filtering the water. We went out to look for ammonia to do a fishless cycle. However, we were unable to find ammonia w/o surfactants ANYWHERE!!!! I am super upset as I would like to get the 'cycle' going so that we can get our betta in there soon!!! 
I do not know how to get the ammonia in the tank now?? Here are my main questions:

1-Can I just dump the water from the daily changes on the 2L tank into my 10g tank for the ammonia dose?? Or will that be too little/

2-I have heard you can use fish flakes to start, if I do this method, how many flakes do I add for 10g and how often do I have to add them?

3-I do plan on having some live plants and the fish guy at the LFS advised me to wait until the tank was cycled to add them since I only have a 15Watt lamp running....is this correct? He said that he would cycle then add plants, wait until the readings are 0 and then add fish, is this correct?

Sorry for all the info/questions but I am overwhelmed by trying to research this any farther. All the senarios that I have seen so far are different from mine. Example: they already put plants in their tank, they were able to find ammonia w/o surfactants etc. PLEASE HELP!! I want to do this RIGHT the first time, so feel free to give me info/suggestions based on what I have right now...which is a 10g filled tank with 2" rock in the bottom, a running filter and a 15 Watt light. Also, my husband just bought a heater and I will be putting that in tomorrow, the tank is currently at 74degrees and the heater will bump it up to 78-80 for the fish 
Thanks for reading all of this in advance!!!!*H2*question I just need direction!!
Paisley


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

With a 10 gallon, put the Betta in. Do weekly 25% water changes, and add no other fish for a few weeks. The tank will gradually cycle.

I've kept fish for 45 years and have never had a wipeout from an uncycled tank. I stock VERY lightly to begin, and always try to have fewer fish than I think a tank will hold as I go along. I have never done a fishless cycle, and unless I feel like doing a chemistry experiment, I never will.

There's a sort of orthodoxy formed that sees the fishless cycle, originally a neat experiment to learn from, as a necessity. A cycle is necessary, but so is low stocking with healthy fish. 

I'm firmly convinced that most of the deaths of fish in newly set-up LIGHTLY STOCKED tanks that we blame on ammonia are actually the result of buying low quality fish farm 'products'. More and more stores look at the price of what they buy and resell before its quality, and to cheapen the product, there are some very dodgy practices in the industry.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello p...

If I was starting out in the tank keeping hobby, I'd look into a larger tank. A 10 G would present a challenge to even an experienced hobbyist. The reason is a small tank isn't very forgiving of mistakes in tank management. Pollutants will build fairly quickly and there isn't enough water in the 10 G to dilute the pollutants. 

Putting even one fish into such a small tank is like confining your dog or cat to living in the bathroom only.

I started with a 20 G and still had water problems that caused problems for my fish and ultimately for me.

Just a thought.

B


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## paisley (Feb 7, 2012)

We do have an Ace Hardware about 20 min from out house and I will go by there this morning after I get my daughter to school. As for the LFS guy who said he would wait to add plants, there could very well be an error in my understanding He seemed to know what he was talking about but then again I had NO idea what he was talking about as I am new to this If I recall right he said that you will have a slight nitrite spike when you add plants and to wait for that to pass before I add the fish. However, he may have seen how little I knew on this whole subject and decided that it would be harder for me control my water conditions with more stuff going on. I do know that I told him I was planning to do a fishless cycle and add the ammonia and he said that he had never cycled his tanks that way himself. It seemed that he used goldfish. I let him know that I didn't want to accidentally or intentionally kill any fish and he said that the goldfish would be able to handle it but to do it whichever way that I prefer. 
At this point, I just want to get this going!! I will stop by Ace Hardware today and look for the ammonia. Thank you all for your input. I wish that we had room and money for a 20G tank right now but our house is only 946sq ft. and we have 3 kids with a 70lbs dog!!!! We have hardly got enough room for a 10G;-P I would love to upgrade "when" our house sells..LOL. I will let you all know if I find the ammonia and how it goes 
Thanks!
Paisley


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Bettas do like temps in the 80's 84 seems to be the general consensus for comfort, and go ahead and add plants any time. You can add flakes, but as JC said, it will take a while. As navigator black said, you can do a silent cycle, with one betta and routine water changes and water parameter monitoring it should not be any issue. Good luck!!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Take a look at beaslbob builds in the link in my signature below.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

There are other ways to do a fishless without ammonia. I agree with your lfs guy for once, you probably need more light, especially if it is an incandescent bulb.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Ammonia can actually be hard to find. None of my local stores stock it any more as it's not exactly a 'green' option, and the market for it is apparently dead. You might want to phone ahead if there's a drive involved.


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## paisley (Feb 7, 2012)

YES!!! I found the ammonia at Ace hardware! Thanks for all the advice I will be adding it to the tank tonight and starting the fishless cycle. I am super excited to get this process going. If I happen to have questions during the process, can I just post on to the end of the 'fishless cycle sticky' or should I start a new thread?? I don't want to post to the end of the sticky if no one will know that there is a post there but I also don't want to start threads all the time either! Let me know
Thanks!!
P


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## paisley (Feb 7, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> There are other ways to do a fishless without ammonia. I agree with your lfs guy for once, you probably need more light, especially if it is an incandescent bulb.


I think it is a 15 watt fluorescent, it is what came in the hood for the tank. Will that be enough light for the hardy low light plants or should I plan on upping the wattage? If so what watt should I get? I am only wanting plants that are smaller and low maintenance....if there is such a thing!LOL
P


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

just keep posting your questions here on this thread and we'll try to help as much as we can.
IMO its easier to just get a couple hardy fish to cycle a tank and keep an eye on all the chems, do water changes when needed but totally up to you.
theres also a whole thread section here on Bettas that you will find very informative as well


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Personally I like to add a few hardy fish to cycle itcause it gives me alittle action in there to look at and as for the lighting I'm sure you'll be good at 2-3watts per gallon but you might wanna look into that alittle more


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## paisley (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok~
I added 1/4 tsp ammonia to my 10G and 2 hrs later I tested and it was at 4ppm!!! YEA! So happy I didn't put in a 1/2 tsp like I originally intended. When I logged onto the chat earlier I asked some ppl in there and they said starting smaller was better So I do have a question though, after the 2 hr wait I went in and noticed stuff that looks like tiny bubbles on the sides of the tank (which was there before but were clear like a bubble) that are a little brownish tint now. Do I need to do anything about that? Is it algae? My tank was set up with gravel/rock that had added conditioners etc., filled with water and the filter started on 2/7/12. Then I ran to the store to buy ammonia...but they didn't have any. So today I finally found the ammonia as stated earlier and added it. The tank sat w/filter, substrate, and a 15W light for 3 days. Would that be the cause of the bubbles turning brown after ammonia was added? Please tell me I didn't screw everything up by not adding the ammonia the day I filled the tank!!!
P


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