# Golden ram died today



## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

One of my golden rams died today, and I have no idea why. I tested the water this morning, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrate <20. Water temp 80. No signs of illness that I could detect. 29 gallon pentagonal corner tank, planted. 8 rams, 2 small clown loaches, 1 ancistrus pleco, and 2 sunset gouramis. 

I did a 5 gal water change after finding the fish, and it occurred to me it might be the multi stage filtered water I've been buying. Our water here is very hard and has very high Ph, so I've been buying water to keep the ph and hardness lower. Could it be that the fish died from mineral and electrolyte deficiencies? 

All thoughts and ideas are appreciated.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I would have to be really low conductivity to kill a fish, and the fish would all show massive distress.
I'd suspect murder most foul. A pentagonal 29 is a small 'footprint' - and dwarf cichlids don't care about gallons but rather how large the bottom of the tank is for territories. If they are sexually mature, the attrition will begin as they carve out space. You will be lucky to have four by the end of the game, and maybe even two. Rams are peaceful cichlids, but they are cichlids, and they need about 16 to 24 inches of tank bottom for a territory. 
The clown loaches will outgrow that tank quickly. They'll top out at anywhere from 8 to 18 inches, with very bulky, filtration overloading bodies. They sell babies in the stores, but in my experience, til about six inches, they grow very fast.
Be careful handling them, as they have a very sharp defensive spine under the eye. When they extend it, they can hurt you, and puncture a fish bag.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Have you checked the ph at different times of the day? The problem with 100% of any type of special water is it "usually" lacks the carbonate hardness (kh) to hold a steady ph. Without that, the ph will go up and down very easily and stress/kill your fish. Your fish also need what is naturally found in water for their health (magnesium, calcium) just like we do. Filtered water will sometimes strip all of that out.


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## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks to both of you for very reasonable explanations. 

I just planted a new 50 gallon last weekend, my first dirt tank. I had planned on letting it settle in a bit before moving the rams, but it looks like today might be moving day for some of them. I'll move the GBR pair and the electric blues. With 4 feet of real estate, they should be able to stake out their own territories. I think the remaining GBR and two goldens are all males, so they should be ok in the 29 g.

I haven't tested ph at different times throughout the day, but when I do test, usually late in the day, it's always oddly high. My water comes out of the tap at about 8.4, and maxes out the gh/kh test. The filtered measures at about 6.2 I've been converting to the lower ph water through my weekly water changes, and I estimate I should be at about 80 to 85% filtered by now, yet the ph still measures around 7.6. I had assumed once I reached about 7.0. I could maintain that by mixing tap with filtered during my changes. I'll try measurements throughout the day. Assuming this is an issue, what would you recommend to stabilize?


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I would also suspect the fish getting mature and fighting for territories.


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## Rufus' Mom (Jan 2, 2012)

I did move the GBR's and electric blue's, and I noticed that one of th GBR's had damage on his lower lip from fighting. I lost him 3 days later, but i still feel pretty certain of his COD. Then one by one the other Rams started showing signs of illness- clamped fins, much less active, etc. No other fish showing signs. Water parameters were ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate near 0, but still did water changes. Moved them to my hospital tank, but lost them all. All other fish still fine, and remaining golden rams in the original tank are still fine. 

I'm guessing that there are other chemicals in the water in the 50 g they just couldn't handle. It was always my intent to move them to that tank, so I guess it was inevitable. 

Maybe the Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix is putting out too much nutrients for the fish to handle well? The plants are thriving, and there is no visible algae in the tank. 

I've thought about adding some activated carbon to the filter to help absorb whatever might have caused the problem. Even though no other fish have died, I'm a little worried that they may just be better able to tolerate less than ideal condition. What do you think?

Again, all thoughts welcome. Just when you think you have it figured out...


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