# Went to LFS, now I hvae more ?'s than answers!



## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Okay, made a lil sale of our old car and had some money to spare so we went to the LFS. I was almost prepared to get everything I needed for our 55 gallon tall tank but then the numbers started hitting me.

lighting-200.00+ I wanted LED's he said I shouldn't get them... are they bad or something? I want to grow plant so..

substrate-4 bags, I asked about doing a peat moss or whatever bottom and sand on top he said it was too messy and I shouldn't do it.

Then one guy is telling me to buy a lid, another telling me not to. I am so freakin confused!

Also, I thought maybe I could get light online and I found this


Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting

Has anyone ever had this brand of lights? Good, bad or otherwise? Is Aqua Traders good or not? 

Thank you in advance!

:fish9:


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## bmoore09 (Nov 20, 2010)

Bee said:


> Okay, made a lil sale of our old car and had some money to spare so we went to the LFS. I was almost prepared to get everything I needed for our 55 gallon tall tank but then the numbers started hitting me.
> 
> lighting-200.00+ I wanted LED's he said I shouldn't get them... are they bad or something? I want to grow plant so..
> 
> ...


Shop on craigslist for most of what you need (tank/lights/lids). That will lessen the blow on the $$$.

I've never dealt with peat moss, but I can say go to your local pool supply store and get 50lbs of Pool Filter Sand for $10 or less for your substrate if you want sand.

Getting a lid is all preference. I've done no-lid, and while it does have that "cool" factor , it does limit some fish you can buy (limited to non-jumpers).

I don't think there's much known about LED effects on plants. If you really want to go with a heavily planted tank Iwould just go T5. Yah, they can be expensive, but they're worth it. But make sure you have the right levels b/c you may get into a situation where you need co2, or else you'll have algae everywhere.

Hope that helped a little. I'm still learning ....and while this forum is extremely helpful, most of it is lessons learned the hard way


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

bmoore09 said:


> I'm still learning ....and while this forum is extremely helpful, most of it is lessons learned the hard way


Man I hear that! lol


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

I can agree to that, lessons learned the hard way! LOL The guy said I needed a certain kind of sand and it didn't even turn out to be sand. It was chunky, which I didn't want.. But he said that other sands don't hold nutrients or are made of coral, which I guess is also bad?


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I can't chime in on much, however I have play sand and it seems to be working quite well! The lid is your preference, and as for hte light, I have a shop light with GE aquarium bulbs, the whole shebang cost about 30 bucks. Plants are growing well and look great to me! i'm sure you can go more high tech, if YOU want to, but you can also go cheaper and still do well with it. That's all in what your preference is and what your goals are for your tank!


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Anyone know about that light that I posted? Does it look like a good deal? Or too good to be true? Summer, I plan on making this a nice looking tank but hopefully for cheap. LOL If that is even possible.

And Bmoore, I forgot to add, I usually do stalk Craigslist, that's where I got the tank, which was free... but I kind of wanted new lights for some reason.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Bee the light is fine but you don't need the actinic bulb. That is for salt water. Going high light you will need to also add pressurized co2 and that will be another expense. LED's are good, but then again they are high dollar and would require co2.

If you or your husband can build a hood for the tank, you can mount 2 48 inch shoplight fixtures, use the 6700k bulbs and would be able to grow most plants. I use them on all of my tanks.

Peat moss is fine in the tank, then top with pool filter sand. The only problem it can give you is if you tend to move plants a lot and it will get messy. I use pfs in most of my tanks and plants grow fine. Just if you have sword plants or other heavy root feeders you need to add plant tab under the sand next to them. You will also need to get some liquid ferts and dose once a week. For a 55 gal tank it would take one bag and they run 6 to 10 dollars a bag.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Rule #1....don't listen to anyone in your local stores. Most of their experience is limited to what they have done in the store and out of all the ones I have talked with while they are netting my fish, only one has had any tank eperience.

If you dont use a top on your tank you will get a lot of evaporation, but like was said, your choice. My glass tops slow the evap down to about 1/2.


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## TypeYourTextHere (Apr 20, 2011)

Bee said:


> Anyone know about that light that I posted? Does it look like a good deal? Or too good to be true? Summer, I plan on making this a nice looking tank but hopefully for cheap. LOL If that is even possible.
> 
> And Bmoore, I forgot to add, I usually do stalk Craigslist, that's where I got the tank, which was free... but I kind of wanted new lights for some reason.


If you decide to buy from Craigslist make sure the tank holds water and is not cracked. I have gotten tanks off CL before with great luck.
I was actually considering buying an Odyssey light when I first started my tank and decided to go with a Hagen Glo light instead after reading a lot of reviews, and coming to the conclusion that sometimes price does matter. As far as substrate goes I have Pool Filter Sand (PFS to most) and am happy I did. it is a tenth the cost (50lbs. for $10) and I think it looks better. I have a hood on my tank for several reasons, it is quieter, fish don't jump out, evaporation is next to nothing, it helps protect my lights from getting "crusty", and I like to pile up all the crap I don't want my son getting to on the top of it.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks guys! This is really helpful!


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## bmoore09 (Nov 20, 2010)

susankat said:


> Bee the light is fine but you don't need the actinic bulb. That is for salt water. Going high light you will need to also add pressurized co2 and that will be another expense. LED's are good, but then again they are high dollar and would require co2.
> 
> If you or your husband can build a hood for the tank, you can mount 2 48 inch shoplight fixtures, use the 6700k bulbs and would be able to grow most plants. I use them on all of my tanks.
> 
> Peat moss is fine in the tank, then top with pool filter sand. The only problem it can give you is if you tend to move plants a lot and it will get messy. I use pfs in most of my tanks and plants grow fine. Just if you have sword plants or other heavy root feeders you need to add plant tab under the sand next to them. You will also need to get some liquid ferts and dose once a week. For a 55 gal tank it would take one bag and they run 6 to 10 dollars a bag.


One of my favorite days is when I found the "shop light." No more spending $100 or more on a light. Like Susan said, just goto home depot and spend $30 for the whole sha-bang. Really brings the costs down.

On another note, I have a freshwater tank and I use an actinic light. Most people here will say that you don't need it, or that it may cause algae...and that may be the case. But in my experience, it gives it a great look if you combine it with white lights as well..and I've never had an algae problem.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Hmmm, interesting, thanks! I think we will check out shop lights... but I'm not sure what we could rig up. It will be in my daughter's room, so that kind of scares me. Guess I got a lot to think about lol.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Bee,

The T5 fixture looks good, except for the actinic bulb. Actinics are built for coral reefs and don't do any good in a freshwater tank. With that being said, I would say to buy the fixture and also buy a nice freshwater plant bulb, something like a 5500K or something like that, then sell the actinic on Craigslist for cheap. I swear by T5, however one day when I've made my million I will have LED fixtures. Your LFS clerk was probably steering you away from LEDs because of their cost and his or her lack of understanding as to their true effectiveness at growing plants (even I'm a little skeptical of them).

Lids are great to prevent evaporation and stop jumpers from getting out of the tank, but they reduce the effectiveness of your light fixture and they aren't as aesthetically pleasing as an open-top tank. I use them just because I find topping off my tanks halfway through the week due to evaporation is a pain, and even with the lids on I still get jumpers from time to time.

Peat moss is great in a planted tank because it is chemically inert, so aside from potentially making your tank messy it will not screw with the chemical composition of the water. What peat moss is great for is lowering the pH of your water. If the water out of your tap is basic like mine is (pH of 7.6 and higher), peat moss will make it more acidic, which is what some fish like neon tetras prefer. Many people will put a bottom layer of peat moss in the tank and plant plants over it, others will fill a mesh filter bag with peat moss and stick it in their filter. Both methods have the same effect.

As many have stated, pool filter sand is great and cheap as a substrate because plants love to sink their roots into sand, but might need a little extra nutrient supplementation like root tabs. The stuff the LFS clerk was trying to sell you is aquarium-specific plant substrate like Eco-Complete, Floramax, or Fluorite. All are great for plants, and are quite a bit more on the gravel side than sand. If I were you, I would later 1" of peat moss on bottom, 1" of pool filter sand next, and a top layer of the planted tank substrate. Also, if you don't want to see the layers through the tank glass, wet some of the planted tank substrate and pile it up on the sides, then layer your peat moss and pool filter sand in the middle, and top off with planted tank substrate. That way, not only does your tank look great, but your plants will have great substrate to grow in, and the peat moss will help regulate the pH in your tank.

Remember to wash anything you get for substrate very thoroughly before adding it to the tank, or you'll turn your tank water into soup. Also, if you get peat moss and want to save yourself some effort, soak the peat moss in a bucket of water so it will become waterlogged and sink easier. Much easier to layer in the tank that way.

Most LFS clerks are a lost cause when it comes to DIY projects and any other stuff like pool filter sand, shop lighting, etc. that you might buy from the hardware store or elsewhere. I generally don't even engage them in conversation aside from small talk anymore, I just go into the store for what I need, let my dog bark at the birds, and leave.

Just my thoughts...


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## SevenNoOni (Oct 11, 2011)

I have two Lights from Aquatraders, Both are that name brand and both work great. Im planning on buying another. My Father is also buying one for his new tank... I give them a 9 outta 10 on shipping and 10 outta 10 on items. I will buy the rest of my lights from now on from that site. in my opinion spending 300 bucks on a light is dumb.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

So I decided to dive into their site a lil more and I narrowed it down. If I don't get shop lights, it will be one of these. I think. What would ya all suggest, which is better?

Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting

LED Freshwater Bright


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Get the Odyssea, the LED fixture has actinic LEDs in it and you can't replace them. In the T5HO fixture, you can replace the actinic bulb with a 5500k freshwater bulb very easily.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Then why the heck would it say for freshwater? The LED one. And this is a new T5 that I looked up, it's got 3x 39W T5 HO lamps 6500K no actinic bulbs... right? or am I still missing something?


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## SevenNoOni (Oct 11, 2011)

your most likely running into the same problem i had with that site. The T5 HO lights all have two identical links side by side one is for freshwater ones for saltwater.. the link you provided at the top is the salt water light... Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting im guessing this is the light your looking at...


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## bmoore09 (Nov 20, 2010)

Don't think that you HAVE to replace the actinic bulb. It may not be all that useful to plants, but it does add some effect to the lighting.
If you go shoplight, which can just sit on top of your lid, get a double one (two builbs), and have one actinic and one 6500 or 5500 white bulb (Unorthodox, but its my preference and my plants grow really well).
Then again, if you go shoplight, it doesn't come with any bulbs, so if you wanna go that route you just pick up a two-pack of whites from Home Depot for like $8

PS: There's no need to worry about the shoplight in your daughters room. Mine sits pretty firmly on the top of the lid...no real chance of falling off unless it's pulled really hard


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## bmoore09 (Nov 20, 2010)

Also...if he goes with that 117W T5 light he'll need co2, correct?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If this is for a standard 55g, then you'll need a 48" fixture. You'd also not want more than a 2-bulb fixture. Even with 2-54W (48") you'll need to carefully manage your lighting period to prevent algae.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

It's not standard, it's a tall tank.


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## Hooperman42 (Oct 23, 2011)

:fish-in-a-bag::betta:I have a 55g marineland kit that came with the LEDs which everyone said are to small to support plants they are two small units with a total of 86 at a puny .11 watt each. It has blue LEDs for moonlights. The trouble for all the naysayers is the plants are growing like weeds..but it does get a bit of natural sun and in Fl that is everyday but the water stays the right temp. Not sure if sun does anything coming from the window but maybe that's it..anyways went and added a dual bulb t5 48 inch from the company you mentioned. I opted FOR THE blue bulb too since it enhances color to me does not ever look yellow. I may replace the bulbs however with my favorites which are the ATI ones with the Aquablue special which is a perfect white light and a blue plus which is like the actinic on steroids for a gorgeous night view. I have both ATI's in 24 watts on my 30 inch model that is on my sons 20g long...leave both on for about ten hours then the moonlights on this model. I have pics in my gallery with both of those ATI's on in the daytime and it just looks great in my mind..I think I have a pic or two with just the blue plus on for evenings...at night I use the moon and there are pics of that you can see....Anyways on the 55g I am adding that 48 inch dual 48 and keeping my LEDs too since I have a glass top and the led fixtures can sit right on the front lid on the glass top. Non of my 55g pics have anything but the tiny LEDs in my pics. All the best!


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for your input Hooper! I just really like the thought of LEDs for the energy savings.


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## Hooperman42 (Oct 23, 2011)

Agree they use little or non. But in our house the AC alone in Florida makes it a non factor. . Your tank will be terrific! Promise.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

As said above, Shop light fixtures for 10-12 bucks and a 2 pack of full spectrum daylight bulbs at the home depot is 8 bucks. If your handy you can build your own hood from an acrylic sheet. I am making one for my 20 gallon. A sheet big enough costs 16 bucks and a hood costs 30 - 35 online or in stores. Get Cabinet hinges and you can incorporate a nice lid for feeding.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Blue lights of whatever type you want, are okay if you don't have plants. If you do, it is just a matter of time before they melt. You need lighting in the 6500-10000k range or else you'll be wondering why your plants are dying and covered with algae before too long.


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## Hooperman42 (Oct 23, 2011)

So all lights that give any blue light will melt plants? Is that what you are saying? Interesting.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

the lights i mentioned are 6500K.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

I ordered the LED... it says it's for a freshwater, planted tank so this should be a very good experiment. I wanted them based on the fact that we need to cut down on energy costs. I've heard from many people that they are good, I don't know. If they suck, lesson learned. If not then Yay! I also picked up 50lbs of silica sand for 4 dollars at Menards, a Co2 set, a filter and a new heater. Filled the tank tonight and hopefully it turns out ok. Fins crossed!


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

bmoore09 said:


> On another note, *I have a freshwater tank and I use an actinic light.* Most people here will say that you don't need it, or that it may cause algae...and that may be the case. But in my experience, *it gives it a great look* if you combine it with white lights as well..and I've never had an algae problem.


I agree 100%
I absolutely LOVE the actenik light on my 150!

When combined with my other lighting, it gives a far better "natural clear water" look to the tank.
Now, without it, the tank looks almost yellowish in comparison.

I love to show guests the tank with the actenic off first. They go "OOOH! Nice, how do you keep the water so clear/"
Then I hit the actenic.
And their eyes pop out.

My light has Blue LEDs too, but really I prefer to go full light in the daytime, then when we settle down for the evening to have family time, I use just the actenic. It gives almost a sureal, mystical twilight look. Then I go with just the LEDs when we hit the pillows.

To me, the actenic is really what makes a freshwater tank pop.

WELL worth the money!

In fact, many times when you see a really nice "show tank" at a good LFS, or serious fishkeepers prize tank, their "secret ingredient" to set it apart from others, is nothing more than an actenic bulb or two.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

meBNme said:


> I agree 100%
> I absolutely LOVE the actenik light on my 150!
> 
> When combined with my other lighting, it gives a far better "natural clear water" look to the tank.
> ...


So do you have plants in it? And if so how long have you had them? Do they grow ok?


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Blue lights of whatever type you want, are okay if you don't have plants. If you do, it is just a matter of time before they melt. You need lighting in the 6500-10000k range or else you'll be wondering why your plants are dying and covered with algae before too long.


I have 14 different types of plants. Every plant in the tank is live.
From swords to madagascar lace to anubias, Cryptocoryne, Java fern, and wisteria. Even a few grasses.

Ive had 4 of then to lose all the leaves right after transplant, but come back strong soon after. All of them are doing fine, in fact Ive had to trim back and relocate several of the fast growers.

My actenic bulb stays on about 14 hrs a day, the white about 10hrs, and the blue LEDs 24 hrs a day.


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## Bee (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks! I hope this works!


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## meBNme (Oct 7, 2011)

Bee said:


> So do you have plants in it? And if so how long have you had them? Do they grow ok?


Many of them have been in almost 4 months. The majority of them came from one of my LFS "plant & show" tank. (the plants or for sale, the fish in it are not.) That tank has 2 actenic bulbs and 4 whites.
They are growing plants in that one faster than they can sell them.

They have two show tanks, this one, and a 210g with a 24" catfish where they grow nothing but grassy ground cover. Both show tanks have actenic bulbs.


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