# To clean or not to clean. That is the ???



## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I have run into a problem of my own making, probably. I have a 10g tall tank that has been set up for several months. The inhabitants are 4-5 male feeder guppies, 15-20 pond snails and 80-90 ramshorn snails. I know, way to many snails. 

The problem I have run into is when I change water, around 70% once a week, the nitrates skyrocket the next day. I have to change another 70% the next day. By the time a week rolls around nitrates are coming up and have to do the double change again.

This time, instead of just skimming the surface of the gravel, I decided to do a deep cleaning. What a shock. The muck that came out of it was black!!! And had an off smell. I forgot to test the water after the last change so I don't know if the nitrates are better or not. Snails all went back to the bottom of the tank though.

The tank is planted. I have two lily type plants that have the long stem with new plants on it. A couple Java ferns, Java moss and a plant I don't remember what it is, but the leaves remind me of carrot leaves. It is a floater that will root. Plants are all doing nicely.

Only thing I add to the tank is a liquid co2. We have well water. It tests out at 5ppm nitrates straight from the tap.

Is this black muck what is causing the nitrates to climb so high? Oh, I have a filter big enough for a 40g tank and a sponge filter in this tank. I try to keep the heat around 82.

Any solutions?? Do I need to be doing more water changes? Kind of hard for me, but I will manage somehow. 

Sure appreciate any help. I may be giving snails away if the problem doesn't resolve.

Will have to ask another question about feeding them in the invert section.


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

vreugy said:


> I have run into a problem of my own making, probably. I have a 10g tall tank that has been set up for several months. The inhabitants are 4-5 male feeder guppies, 15-20 pond snails and 80-90 ramshorn snails. I know, way to many snails.
> 
> The problem I have run into is when I change water, around 70% once a week, the nitrates skyrocket the next day. I have to change another 70% the next day. By the time a week rolls around nitrates are coming up and have to do the double change again.
> 
> ...


Wow! That's a LOT of snails for just a 10 gallon tank I'd get rid of the pond snails (I consider them pests) and re-home most of the ramshorn. You really don't need that many...maybe 4 to 5.

You should *always* suction the gravel really well, as food and fish detrius will settle down into the gravel and cause problems.

That can be a problem with nitrates in your water supply. When doing water changes, you're not only removing nitrates, but adding them back in at the same time. Is your home also on a septic tank system (i.e. not a city/county sewer system)? Nitrates in a well could be from farm runoff. More importantly, you really need to get your well tested! Most health departments will check your water supply for a modest price, for fecal coliform bacteria. Here is a pdf link for your state that also gives other information regarding nitrates. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=Pmb0Urb5fq9oJ2Pg5eGxuQ&bvm=bv.47534661,d.aWc

Yes, more that likely, as I don't think even with the larger filter, it can keep up with that bioload. With that many snails in there, I'm surprised you don't see possibly ammonia and nitrites also. Are you using test strips or a liquid test kit (API)? Strips are notoriously inaccurate.

You can never really do too many water changes. I would continue to do them (50%+ or more) frequently until the nitrate level drops to below 40ppm.
If you *DO* decide to get rid of the ramshorn, let me know. I would be interested in some of them.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The snails may be a bit excessive.My geuss is that when you change water you stir up the crap in your gravel.I would vacumm(deeply)1/2 of the tank when you do your w/c.Have you tested your well water 24 hrs after you draw it?Put some (5 g) in a bucket test and then let set for 24hrs. and test again.
You may want too consider a water filter(inline) for your water changes as most wells will pull some sediment even if you can't see it.
Let us know how the 24 hr test go.You shouldn't have to do two w/c of that volume for your tank,one a week should work for you,it may all be built up in gravel.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Lonesome Dove 55. You have a deal. I need to rehome most of the rams. How many do you want??? You can have them for postage. I have no idea what postage will be though. I will try to find out and let you know. They are supposed to be blue rams. I can see a few that are leopard spotted too. I can put some of each in for you.

Yes I have a well and we are way out in the country. Used to run 40 head of cattle. Husband died, so I sold off everything including most of the land, but I am stuck with the well. Late husband had the coliform bacteria from when the well filter contaminated. Never bothered me, but I am a tough ol bird. Going to put a filter on the kitchen soon.

I am considering setting up the 29g and take down the two 10g. I can't get to any lfs anymore, so I will just be content with a few feeder guppies and a few snails and one female Betta. It will give me something to look at.

From reading on the forum, I thought we shouldn't vacuum the gravel deep if we had plants. Oh well, I will just do what I need to and hope it is ok.

Be sure to let me know how many rams you want. OH. I do have pond snails. I will try my best to keep them out of yours, but you should check when you get them too,

Hope you have a good day.


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## DeJay126 (Apr 22, 2013)

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you just misunderstood what Dove was saying. She doesn't want your snails. She was just stating that there are too many. 

I've never had any experience with snails. Do they serve any purpose in the tank? I might consider getting a few if they're beneficial to the community!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

DeJay126 said:


> I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you just misunderstood what Dove was saying. She doesn't want your snails. She was just stating that there are too many.
> 
> I've never had any experience with snails. Do they serve any purpose in the tank? I might consider getting a few if they're beneficial to the community!


Many people do desire ramshorn snails ,so I wouldn't be so sure LD was being sarcastic.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

DeJay126 said:


> I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you just misunderstood what Dove was saying. She doesn't want your snails. She was just stating that there are too many.
> 
> I've never had any experience with snails. Do they serve any purpose in the tank? I might consider getting a few if they're beneficial to the community!


*Dejay*

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have reread all the posts in my thread and the only sarcastic words I found were yours. If you want some of my rams, just say so. I have around 80. All I ask is postage.

Please no more caustic messages. I am an old woman trying to enjoy what is left of my life and I don't need people like you to mouth off at me. Believe me, life is way to short to be grumpy.

Hope you have a great day


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

<if you="" <b="">*If you DO decide to get rid of the ramshorn, let me know. I would be interested in some of them.*

Sorry, but I can't say it much plainer than that DeJay and definitely wasn't being sarcastic...LOL. But all kidding aside, I actually confused ramshorn snails with horned nerite snails. I currently have nerites in my tanks and am looking for some more as they are great little algae eaters! 

You could call your LFS vreugy and see if they will take them off your hands, and you may even make a little $.</if><label for="rb_iconid_7">







</label>


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## DeJay126 (Apr 22, 2013)

vreugy said:


> Lonesome Dove 55. You have a deal.


This is what I was referring to. I didn't realize until just now that Dove told you at the end of her post that she would be interested in taking some of them. I thought you were being sarcastic and saying "if you think I have too many then take some off of my hands!". My apologies. I hope you find someone to give them to and that you get your tank back on track.

I must admit, I have a dry sense of humor and LOOOOVE being sarcastic. I now take my caustic comments elsewhere!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Lonedove. I had actually planned on taking some to my lfs when they grew some. But now, I can not get to any lfs, so I am giving them away. If anyone is interested in them, please let me know. Otherwise, I am afraid they are destined for the freezer. For some reason, my assassins don't seem to interested in them.

Hope you have a great day.


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## jamnigh (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey Ladybug, I just discovered I am in the same boat as you. Bought a couple plants, now in my little fry tank I have at least 40 baby ramshorn snails!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

DEJAY Sorry for jumping down your throat. The older I get, the more sensitive I get. 

Hope you have a great day


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## DeJay126 (Apr 22, 2013)

vreugy said:


> DEJAY Sorry for jumping down your throat. The older I get, the more sensitive I get.
> 
> Hope you have a great day


Haha, it was a misunderstanding on both parts! No hard feelings


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I wonder why my assassins aren't interested in the rams? They are in a different 10g with feeder guppies and a few rams and a few ponds. I have only found 2 rams shells. One was dead when I put it in there. They got to it pretty quick. 

Anyone have any idea what kind of fish I could get to eat the snails. I know loaches will, but don't they get way big? If a loach is what I think it is, I am not particularly fond of them. And how can you tell you are getting the right one? I would have to order it thru the mail. I definitely do not want a puffer.

Some ideas would be nice. I will be setting up a 29g in a couple weeks. Had it for years, just have to reseal and clean.

Hope you have a great day.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

assasins much to many thinking otherwise will eat leftover food (like most snails) if it is there.They're no stranger to taking the eay way out.Possibly cutting down on feeding the fish will help encourage them to eat what they can(other snails)?
Just a thought.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I think you are right about to much food. I know I probably overfeed. I am trying to cut way back and only feed 4 times a week now. I think I am about to give up on the small tanks. Just fix up the 29g and call it good. It will look nice with the plants and gravel I already have and the few feeder guppies. I am trying to rehome the female betta. Thought it was a Robbie instead of a Robin. 

Hope you have a great day


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