# Plants are filters?



## Ruslan (May 25, 2011)

Is it true (a friend told me) that if you have lots of plants in your aquarium there is no need for a filter?


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## Totem44 (Mar 15, 2011)

Some people do that. Plants eat nitrates which is a filter I have a couple filters on my planted tank since I dont have that many plants


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Ruslan said:


> Is it true (a friend told me) that if you have lots of plants in your aquarium there is no need for a filter?


Yep. at least no mechanical filters. the plants themselves are filters.


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## straydog (May 14, 2011)

You can do a youtube search on aquaphonics to get a better idea of how it works.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello Ruslan...

I wouldn't go quite that far. I would say if you have a well planted tank, you don't need as much filtration in your tank, but you'll still need some.

B


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

straydog said:


> You can do a youtube search on aquaphonics to get a better idea of how it works.


Or eco jar. *old dude

like:

Self-contained Microcosm


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

This is true, but you need to make sure your bioload isnt higher than your biofiltration (plants and bacteria in this case). 

Beaslbob, how often do you feed your fish, how many do you have (in a single tank usually) and do you ever vaccum your tank?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Yes, yes they are filters. Just like land plants take in C02 and breathe out 02. Kinda' cool!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

phys said:


> This is true, but you need to make sure your bioload isnt higher than your biofiltration (plants and bacteria in this case).
> 
> Beaslbob, how often do you feed your fish,


once per day, less if the tank gets cloudy. during 1-2 week vacations I just leave and come back.


> how many do you have (in a single tank usually)


in a 10g tank I had a stable population of 30 guppies with 6 reproducing adults for 9 years from the original cycle trio


> and do you ever vaccum your tank?


No.

thanks for asking.


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## Cichlids101 (Jun 17, 2011)

Yes plants do act as filters. They utilise ammonia, nitrite & nitrate as nitrogen sources. Ammonia is the prefered nitrogen source & it is possible for the plants to absorb all of the ammonia before it is ever converted to nitrite then nitrates if there are enough plants & they are growing well. Fast growing plants like Cabomba & Water Sprite naturally absorb more than slow growing plants like Java Fern & Anubius.

Despite plants acting as a type of filter, IMO they should not be relied on as the sole source of biological filtration. It is always best to have a filter that is capable of processing all of the wastes produced in the tank. 

If you want to research this kind of thing further I suggest googling & reading up on the Walstad Method of natural planted aquariums. This is a method based around the use of soil as a substrate & the general aim is to achieve a balance between plants & fish.


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

Plants+Filter+Living substrate= WIN


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

mk4gti said:


> Plants+Filter+Living substrate= WIN


 Lol, too funny! (I agree though.) I just like how you made it into a "forumula."

And Beaslbob: Wow! 30 guppies in a 10g tank! I'm impressed!! I knew you could have a larger number of animals in a small tank if it's well planted and established! (Everyone thought I was crazy, but you are proof!)


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

holly12 said:


> Lol, too funny! (I agree though.) I just like how you made it into a "forumula."
> 
> And Beaslbob: Wow! 30 guppies in a 10g tank! I'm impressed!! I knew you could have a larger number of animals in a small tank if it's well planted and established! (Everyone thought I was crazy, but you are proof!)


So I'm proof that you're crazy? *r2

The specific 10g tank was started with 3 cycle fish. Male and 2 females. 1/2 black like "fancy" guppies (some with red tails). The about a month later the 2 females had babies and the tank was literally "black" with babies. So I though well they won't last long. but a year later over 50 were still there and growing. the population settled down at about 30 of various sizes with 6 or so full sized adults.

With platys I get much reduced number but still surprising. like 15-20 in a 10g and 30-40 in a 20 g.

Sure I start out with just a trio and make sure I start with just the male. Then don't add food the first week before adding his girl friends. Then feed lightly.

On the marine side I had 2 tangs (yellow and regal), a pair or clownfish, a purple pseudochromis, yellow watchman gobie and even a coral carfish in a 55g. That is an estremely heavy bioload yet the fish lived for years. But then the tank was a marine equilivant of a planted Fw tank with macro algae refugiums.

In all these tank no water changes, pH was high, nitrates and phosphates were unmeasureable.

FWIW one of the ideas (or posts) I see about planted tanks needing light fish loads to me is simply not true.

but that's just me and my .02


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

I got a planted 90 gallon that i barely ever change water on. There 6 huge tiger barbs, 4 giant danios, 6 rainbowfish, 10 medium sized tetras, 10 corys, 2 BNP, and 6 otos . I run a fluval fx5 with just ceramic rings in it no activated carbon. The substrate is 3.5 inches of eco complete. I have all sorts of low-medium ranged light plants. Vales, swords, TONS of crypts, all sorts of anubias from smaller ones like nana's to ones that are almost a foot tall, monster sized bunches of java ferns, and red tiger lotus that have so many lily pads on the top of the tank i have to cut them off every day to let light in. I use flourish every week and flourish excel every other day. I test my water and i get 0's across the board. PH sits at around 6.8. I have a tek light 4 bulb 48 inch T5 fixture that i put on for 6 hours a day. I grow a new anubias leaf like once every 8 days and a new growth on all the other plants every day. The eco system in my tank is perfect but it took a long time and slowy adding components over time.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

thanks^^^^^^^^^

so it's not just me. *old dude


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> thanks^^^^^^^^^
> 
> so it's not just me. *old dude


Lol actually when i was doing weekly 20% water changes my plants started to fade in color, the swords started to brown up and i wasnt getting as much new growth. Plants complete the cycle, really the only reason i have the fx5 is to create flow. Im considering downgrading to a smaller filter since a fx5 is kinda over kill on a 90 gallon anyway.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mk4gti said:


> *Lol actually when i was doing weekly 20% water changes my plants started to fade in color, the swords started to brown up and i wasnt getting as much new growth*. Plants complete the cycle, really the only reason i have the fx5 is to create flow. Im considering downgrading to a smaller filter since a fx5 is kinda over kill on a 90 gallon anyway.


Interesting and thanks for observation.

I always wondered if that was the case.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah, just a tad overkill (aren't they rated for 300g tanks?). But, I don't believe in overfiltering. But...people get them as less expensive alternatives to the more expensive Eheim filters.

mk4gti - add CO2 to your tank and I don't think you'll have a plant fade problem and they will take off....if you wanted better performance out of your plants.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> So I'm proof that you're crazy? *r2


LOL! I just realized that I worded that completely wrong! Hahahahaha! No, I meant that everyone thought I was crazy, but you are proof that it's not crazy and can be done. (Hahaha. Sorry about that!) *r2


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

holly12 said:


> LOL! I just realized that I worded that completely wrong! Hahahahaha! No, I meant that everyone thought I was crazy, but you are proof that it's not crazy and can be done. (Hahaha. Sorry about that!) *r2


Isn't this fun? *old dude


*r2


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Indeed, hahaha! 

I definitely do NOT think you're crazy! I'm very impressed with your set ups and how they run with so little maintenance. Very cool!


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Yeah, just a tad overkill (aren't they rated for 300g tanks?). But, I don't believe in overfiltering. But...people get them as less expensive alternatives to the more expensive Eheim filters.
> 
> mk4gti - add CO2 to your tank and I don't think you'll have a plant fade problem and they will take off....if you wanted better performance out of your plants.


Yeah i need a co2 set up, dosing flourish excel isnt enough plus thats only one form of carbon. Well i dont really neeed a co2 set up people have been keeping planted aquariums way before co2 injection. Send me a link to a really cheap way to make DIY regulator and what ever else i need. I build turbo VW's so im pretty sure i can put together a few componants and fill up a paintball can.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Holly,I think Beaslbob is crazy,lol.But he is the fun crazy who tries things most wouldnt.Not the scary crazy you think is following you,breaking in at night to plant your tanks and steal your filters.

Or is he?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> Holly,I think Beaslbob is crazy,lol.But he is the fun crazy who tries things most wouldnt.Not the scary crazy you think is following you,breaking in at night to plant your tanks and steal your filters.Or is he?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm laughing at the part where I'm picturing some guy breaking in and I find him planting my tanks!!! That's hilarious! I'd be like, "Hiiii...... um....... continue...." Lol!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL,me too.I would ask if he needed help.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

holly12 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm laughing at the part where I'm picturing some guy breaking in and I find him planting my tanks!!! That's hilarious! I'd be like, "Hiiii...... um....... continue...." Lol!


better not. *old dude

(blush)


*r2


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Aww Beaslbob, we love 'ya!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Thats right,Beaslbob.We love ya.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Thanks.

this is particulary rewarding after being banned on 3 message boards 4-5 years ago.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

HOW did you get banned on that many sites in such a short amount of time, lol?! Did you tell people to put bleach in their tank water or something?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

IM telling ya he went and took their filters,Holly.The only repurcussions he suffered was banning,lol

Seriously though,I dont see why you would be banned,you dont flame or anything.

Some boards are weird.


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

*pc


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Wow, thread hijack!!! Lol! Sorry Ruslan!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah uh....Oops,lol

Uh yeah plants as filters,got it,haha!

OK hes not buying it,time to jet!


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

beaslbob, just out of curiosity, did your 10 gallon you mentioned earlier have any mechanical filtration on it at all? any powerhead to at least circulate water?

my 30 gallon is pretty heavily planted, I really like not having to worry about my water readings because of it  ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates always read 0. I still have a Fluval 305 running on it at about half it's maximum flow rate, but it's mainly just circulating water (and catching baby Cherry Shrimp lately...), as every time I break the filter down for cleaning every month and a half or so, it's hardly dirty and all I really end up doing is replacing the carbon


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> my 30 gallon is pretty heavily planted, I really like not having to worry about my water readings because of it  ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates always read 0.


Just curious, but shouldn't an established tank, even a heavily planted one still have _trace_ amounts of Nitrate? Even, like, .25 or something?



automatic-hydromatic said:


> I still have a Fluval 305 running on it at about half it's maximum flow rate, but it's mainly just circulating water (and catching baby Cherry Shrimp lately...)


You can try putting a pre-sponge over the filter intake so the shrimp don't get sucked up. I had to do that because even my adults were getting sucked into the filter. Just squeeze it out every once in a while so it doesn't get clogged.


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

one would think, but even before I moved (about 2 months ago) and the tank have been established for a LONG time, there wasn't a trace of ANYTHING

after the move, there was a little ammonia spike of like .25, and it was gone within a week



and yeah I use to have a net-like thing over the filter intake, and I need to put one back on it, lol


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> beaslbob, just out of curiosity, did your 10 gallon you mentioned earlier have any mechanical filtration on it at all? any powerhead to at least circulate water?


none. not even an air stone. Currently setup my 55g like that.


> my 30 gallon is pretty heavily planted, I really like not having to worry about my water readings because of it  ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates always read 0. I still have a Fluval 305 running on it at about half it's maximum flow rate, but it's mainly just circulating water (and catching baby Cherry Shrimp lately...), as every time I break the filter down for cleaning every month and a half or so, it's hardly dirty and all I really end up doing is replacing the carbon


c ther?


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## mmccannon (May 10, 2011)

Ruslan said:


> Is it true (a friend told me) that if you have lots of plants in your aquarium there is no need for a filter?


Well, that is partially true, but just partially.
Plants take part in the de-nitrification process when they turn ammonium to nitrite, but still you have to deal with the remnants, which are nitrate.

In addition, you have to remove some poop - livebearers and Ancistruses are cable layers *o2 - and other floating particles.

All in all, you need mechanical and biological filtration. With an internal filter you can easily solve the mechanical. But if you are willing to pay more, you could install an external filter, which solves both.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mmccannon said:


> Well, that is partially true, but just partially.
> Plants take part in the de-nitrification process when they turn ammonium to nitrite, but still you have to deal with the remnants, which are nitrate.


not to be picky but actually plants do consume nitrate along with phosphate, carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. The actually prefer to get their nitrogen from ammonia but that is being reduced by bacteria ina mature tank. But should something go bump in the night resulting in an ammonia spike, the plants rapidily consume that ammonia preventing dangerous crashes.


> In addition, you have to remove some poop - livebearers and Ancistruses are cable layers *o2 - and other floating particles.
> 
> All in all, you need mechanical and biological filtration. With an internal filter you can easily solve the mechanical. But if you are willing to pay more, you could install an external filter, which solves both.


actually the poop just decomposed into the waste the plants consume. Plus plants also filter out nasties like copper and the like. Plus in my unfiltered uncirculated tanks the "floaties" just precipitate out and the water remain clear. 

Finally by controlling lights so the plants thrive but not algae, the water remains clear with no algae.

and that is still just my .02


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