# My angle :'(



## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

my favorite fish in my tank is my yellow and white veil angle fish and he is acting really weird. he is staying in the top left corner of my aquarium next to my heater twoards the back and he isnt moving. he isnt gulping or doing anything at all. he just seems to be flexing out his fins all the way almost like he is extremely stressed but nothing has changed.

i havent done any water changes or added any new plants or anything. i know this isnt normal because this angle is particularity social. always following around my finger and coming to the front of the tank to watch me while i watched him so i no this isnt like him. also note that i have had 2 other angles die in the same manner. first they go up to that corner and just stay there, the next day they are dead. 

the only other things i have in there are 10 cardinal tetra's which came from petsmart. and the angle came from a reputable mom and pop aquarium store. a rep from the shop told me that petsmart catches their fish from the wild and they could hold parasites that farm raised fish could be extremely sensative to but my angle and cardinal's have been doing just fine together for like 4 months. 

ammonia- 0
nitrites- 0
nitrates- 15ish
temp 80 f
ph- 7.8 (i know its high but he has been fine for the past 4 months at 7.8 so i believe he is acclimated) 

idk whats wrong and im really scared. if anyone knows anything please let me know. i really want to save my fish. im thinking about filling a cooler full of water and putting an aerator with dechlorinated tap just to keep him alive but idk.


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

note: my angle is moving around my tank when i turn the light off but he still isnt being fluttery or curious like he normally does.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like something is stressing him out. Try leaving the light out more and see if he starts to improve that way, since it seems to help.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

How big is this tank??
Did you change his food lately??
How long have the other fish been in the tank??
Were the other fish in the tank when you lost the other angels??
What are the sex of the other fish (I'm wondering if perhaps they are mating and getting defensive of the lone angel)??
Do you know if the angel is a male or a female??

That's about all I can think of at the moment answer these and lets see what it might be and what we can hopefully rule out.

Also, what decorations do you have in the tank and what plants and are they live or not??


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> How big is this tank??
> Did you change his food lately??
> How long have the other fish been in the tank??
> Were the other fish in the tank when you lost the other angels??
> ...


55 gals, 
no food change, 
the cardinals went in the same day the angles did so about 4 months, 
yes they were in there when the first 2 angles died
no idea on gender of any of the fish
and i dont believe there is any teritorial mating stuff going on. the cardinals have never shown aggression nor does my angle show signs of fin nipping.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I could be wrong but I'm thinking that he or she might not nip fins until after eggs are layed so I'm wondering if maybe the angel is getting agitated looking for a place or a mate. That's why I was wondering about the decorations. Angels like flat places to lay them. Also, when did the last angel die. Could this one maybe be lonely??


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

PM me I can visually sex angelfish. I breed them like crazy.


100% stressed, something was changed even if it was moving around the decor. cardinals rarely nip at angels and angels dont nip anything they take chunks if they can.
Angels dont like horizontal flats to lay on, mine prefer crypt,swords and java fern leaves over slate and even breeding cones.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

What is the tank temp? It's probably just hiding behind the heater but it could be looking for heat.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Devil:
Got any tips for sexing?? I want to get 2 breeding angels for my tank buy need to make sure they are male and female. Thanks for the tips about where they like to lay eggs. Read in a book one time that they like flat things like slate and shells and stuff.

Brice:
When did the last angel die?? I'm wondering if that could be the recent change that has him stressed out. If`


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

If they were a pair then he might be lonely. I also read before that Angels usually mate or life. (Devil.....can you confirm that or am I wrong. I don't have any personal experience with breeding angels just what the book says )


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree with devil, sounds like stress to me also. I wouldnt worry about the temp or ph as mine breed in hard alkiline water and I keep my display at 80 and they are doing fine. Amie just remember fish dont read and I have swapped out pairs before.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

archer772 said:


> I agree with devil, sounds like stress to me also. I wouldnt worry about the temp or ph


When I asked about temp I mean if it could be out of the normal range. I had a fish hanging around the heater a while back and I realized the heater had gotten turned down by mistake, heater turned up, problem solved. I guess the same could happen if the heater was too small for the tank.

On the whole I go with every one else though, it sounds like stress.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I guess what I should have said was if the temp is 80 degrees I wouldnt worry.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Amie, PM me. I have pics and will make a new thread when I get home later.

Its proven over and over again especially once they are mature(9 months or so)


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I can't LOL!! Your profile says that I can't send you an email. I will check later today for the thread though. Can't wait!!! I've been waiting for months to actually get my angels!!


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Archer
LOL Never thought about that one!!! I've found a few discrepancies in this book too but I think that it's probably a good starting point. There are never any hard and complete rules for anything in nature!!


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

I keep mine in 84-86 degree water with great results.

Also, I cannot email or PM you, check your settings in user CP and try again.

I can receive emails and PM's on here.


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> If they were a pair then he might be lonely. I also read before that Angels usually mate or life. (Devil.....can you confirm that or am I wrong. I don't have any personal experience with breeding angels just what the book says )


i dont believe there was any kind of pairing between any of my angles. when i bought the angles i bought 3 of them and 2 died within a week after acting the same way and the 3rd has been doing fine for 3-4 months until just 5 days ago. i dont believe it is because it is missing its mate or what not. maybe it is lonely and its getting to him/her idk.

water temp is just under 80 by maybe a degree or two. 
i did a 50% water change, all it seemed to do is change the place where the angle idle's

maybe if i put in some stress coat or a small dose of aquarium salt?

idk i really hope i can figure it out. that angle is really something extraordinary. his colors and veil are PERFECT.


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

Got any pics of the angel


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Id take the heat up to 84 degrees over the course of the daylight photoperiod and leave it at 84. Angels like warm water. Fish slow their metabolism and thus their energy when the water is cool for them. they hide, slow down on eating, barely swim around. take the temp up to 84 and observe the fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That's because they are cold blooded creatures.


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

WhiteDevil said:


> Id take the heat up to 84 degrees over the course of the daylight photoperiod and leave it at 84. Angels like warm water. Fish slow their metabolism and thus their energy when the water is cool for them. they hide, slow down on eating, barely swim around. take the temp up to 84 and observe the fish.


actually its funny you mention water temp, its also unfortunate i forgot to mention this originally but about 2 weeks ago i started to see that i had one cardinal with ick pretty bad. i turned the water up to 85 and the ick did not spread but the cardinal that got ick did die and i have NO clue what happened to him. he just disappeared. idk if my other little minions ate him or what but he is gone. anyways... my angle started acting kinda funny 2 days before i turned back to normal from 85 back to 80 which i believe was 6 days AFTER i noticed the cardinal died. 

idk if that has anything to do with anything. i also looked this morning and checked him out, he does SEEM to be better. idk though i only got to look at him for about 30 seconds. i will still keep you updated though.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

ich wont die at 85. 88+ is its threshold for heat. 
i use higher heat for 2 weeks after I notice the ich is gone to insure its dead in the water column as well.

IMO and keep in mind I do breed these fish(got over 1k angels in my house right now from adult to wigglers) 80 degrees is a little cool for them, they stress,become lethargic, dont eat as much. Mine are at an exact 84.6.


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

yeah, ill go ahead and turn it up a little.

i did take a water sample to my local mom and pop aquarium and had them test my water and their experts told me my water had nothing in it to show any signs of what might be stressing out my angle. 

she did say that it being lonely could be a contributing factor, and the only thing other than that she told me was that my mineral content in my water is almost non existent because my tap water's ph is OUTRAGEOUS at 8.2 so over the corse of 3 months i have been slowly cutting it with r.o. at about 5 gallons a week, thus almost eliminating my mineral content. i finally have it down to about 7.4 which is much more tolerable but i still have a little more to go. 

they actually went ahead and gave me an angle for free just to put in there for company to see if that helps because im good friends with them and im always in there reading their books and watching fish haha.

right now i put in 6 table spoons of salt, i plan on adding a little more later on but i have that angle the aquarium gave to me acclimating to the temperature and slowing mixing their water so he gets used to it. ill release him in about 45 minutes or so and we'll see how it goes.

WISH ME LUCK


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You should be happy with a 7.4ph.


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## Brice|F4llen (Jul 12, 2010)

****. i read about the anglefish virus and i think that is what i have. 

Clamped fins, excess slime, listless with nose pointed up slightly, usually towards the back of the aquarium


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