# Looking to get into live plants



## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey all,

So I have a 35 gallon tall aquarium that is an octagon shape. Its currently set up with just some larger natural gravel, some fake plants and decor and a fake piece of driftwood and there just a few fish left. With that being said Im looking to redo all of it from the substrate to the fish..I want new everything. Im I've done just a small amount of preliminary research and haven't gotten a lot of answers so here goes: 

First of all what type of substrate is recommended for live plants i.e just sand, sand base with gravel over it, some kind of plant specific substrate maybe?

Ive found a few carpeting plants that I like (Dwarf Hairgrass the Eleocharis parvula variety as I read it grows shorter and Pogostemon helferi) are these "beginner" plants or should I look into something else? Is there some background plants that would match up with these well that someone can recommend to me?

I know thats a lot of questions but any help answering any of them would be awesome! Thanks in advance

Chive On,
Alex


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can go a couple of less expensive routes...sand is one, safe-t-sorb (sold at Tractor Supply), and even Eco complete. You could go natural with mineralized top soil. Just depends on your budget and the amount of effort you want. IMO, the main thing is the roots need to be able to move/grow freely without hinderance.

Before you start thinking carpeting plants, need to know what type of light you will have. You can get help with that if you answer some more questions......size of tank and if you plan to have CO2 or not, and what other type of plants you want to grow. In other words, a tank with lower light levels is limited to certain plants....but, higher light levels may require CO2 and/or ferts.


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## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> You can go a couple of less expensive routes...sand is one, safe-t-sorb (sold at Tractor Supply), and even Eco complete. You could go natural with mineralized top soil. Just depends on your budget and the amount of effort you want. IMO, the main thing is the roots need to be able to move/grow freely without hinderance.
> 
> Before you start thinking carpeting plants, need to know what type of light you will have. You can get help with that if you answer some more questions......size of tank and if you plan to have CO2 or not, and what other type of plants you want to grow. In other words, a tank with lower light levels is limited to certain plants....but, higher light levels may require CO2 and/or ferts.


Thanks for the information! The tank is a 35 gallon tall octagonal shape and I'm not sure about the light, it accepts an 18" bulb but thats all I know off the top of my head, Ill look at it when I get home from work in the morning. I also do not plan on using CO2 unless I absolutely had to.

Also from what Ive read the substrate is pretty important for live plant so I probably won't skimp here and will get whatever is the most recommended. Also would say snails or some other invert be a good idea to keep the substrate turned over?


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello ff...

A tall tank will present a challenge to grow shorter plants, because it will take a pretty strong light or lights to reach the bottom of the tank. I have a 46 G tall and had to float more plants because of the lighting.

I prefer to keep things simple, so standard pea gravel is fine. I've used it for years in my planted tanks, you just need to have a lot of fish in the tank to provide the nutrients. Two small fish per gallon of tank volume will provide a good level of the macro nutrients the plants need.

I also dose a liquid every week to provide the micro or trace elements the plants need. You can use dry or granule micros too. My plants do well in water with high mineral levels, so I change out half the water every week.

Lighting is important, so you'll need to research the lighting requirements of the plants you want. Again, I keep it simple and use 6500 K, T8s and T12s
so I can use the old "watts per gallon" rule. To me this method is much easier to figure out what lights I need.

That's it. If you go in for the more light demanding plants, then you'll need help with information on higher end lighting and CO2. 

B


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## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

BBradbury said:


> Hello ff...
> 
> A tall tank will present a challenge to grow shorter plants, because it will take a pretty strong light or lights to reach the bottom of the tank. I have a 46 G tall and had to float more plants because of the lighting.
> 
> ...


Can you explain the watts per gallon rule as it would apply to the "High, Moderate and Low" light levels plants are sometimes classified by? As in what watts per gallon would be considered "high" amounts of lighting and how do I know what my watts per gallon would be?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

WPG rule is the total watts divided by the gallons of your tank. Generally 1-2WPG is low, 2-3 is medium, 3 and higher is high...or some variation of that. Only works with T8 and possibly T-12 light bulbs and standard tanks. Will not work with odd shaped tanks and believe yours would qualify as odd shaped. That is to say that the distance from the top of the tank to the substrate is a longer distance in your tank than it would be in a standard shaped tank of your amount of gallons.

If you can measure the distance from susbstrate to top of tank, it would be a good starting point in determing the light you may need.

If it becomes difficult to get good lighting for the tank you have going with CO2 will help fill that void in some respect. There is more and more being done with lower light levels than ever used to be because people have started using CO2 with them. In the past people would only recommend CO2 if you reached X amount of light to help keep BBA algae away. Now people are setting up medium light tanks with CO2 and growing high light requirement plants. IMO, CO2 should always be considered as an option to any planted tank...it just depends on what the owner wants out of it...forget whether it is "required" or not.

ffemt - Firefighter/EMT?


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## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> WPG rule is the total watts divided by the gallons of your tank. Generally 1-2WPG is low, 2-3 is medium, 3 and higher is high...or some variation of that. Only works with T8 and possibly T-12 light bulbs and standard tanks. Will not work with odd shaped tanks and believe yours would qualify as odd shaped. That is to say that the distance from the top of the tank to the substrate is a longer distance in your tank than it would be in a standard shaped tank of your amount of gallons.
> 
> If you can measure the distance from susbstrate to top of tank, it would be a good starting point in determing the light you may need.
> 
> ...


awesome thats great info! Ill look at my tank in the morning and try and get some more information on the height and what not and try and figure out what light I've got. 

And yeah Im a volunteer fire captain/ems officer and work as an EMT for my counties ambulance service.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

ffemt89 said:


> Can you explain the watts per gallon rule as it would apply to the "High, Moderate and Low" light levels plants are sometimes classified by? As in what watts per gallon would be considered "high" amounts of lighting and how do I know what my watts per gallon would be?


Hello again ff...

This is the Watts Breakdown I've used:

1 watt per gallon of tank volume: Low

Up to 1.5 watts of tank volume: Moderate or medium

Up to 2 watts: Strong

Up to 3 watts: Bright

Up to 4 watts +: Very bright

There are several variations, but this one has worked well for me.

B


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The only problem with that description is it doesn't mate up with any plant need description I have ever read. It makes it simple and just says low, medium, high. There are no in-between designations.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> The only problem with that description is it doesn't mate up with any plant need description I have ever read. It makes it simple and just says low, medium, high. There are no in-between designations.


Hello jr...

I've always referred to some of the older books. Those were all I found when I was getting into the "water keeping" hobby. I have some Peter Hiscock books and some planted aquarium books that "generally" refer to this lighting description. The list I gave makes figuring out lighting very simple, if I stuck to the T8 and T12 bulbs from the local hardware store. Keeps costs to a minimum too. But, there are always alternatives, this works for me. 

I keep things as simple as possible, so there aren't so many things to remember.

As always, I keep close tabs on what the experts are saying and appreciate the help.

Thanks "Shipmate".

B


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## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm continuing to move forward with re doing my tank Today I received some free Quickcrete pool filter sand from a friend who works at a pool store. However the edges look pretty sharp and from what all Ive read pool filter sand is supposed to be relatively rounded and safe for fish...any input on this brand of sand or suggestions for another one that I can try?


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## ffemt89 (Mar 22, 2012)

Im going to be using a pool filter sand substrate and have read that sand can stop nutrients from getting to plant roots because it compacts so I was thinking about buying some flourish tabs that Ive read about and crushing them into a powder and mixing them into my sand when I set up my tank and then using supplemental tabs at a later date. Ive never had a planted tank and it will be a "low tech and low light" set up. No CO2. Any suggestions and or experiences doing this?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

First keep in mind the watts per gallon rules apply to flourescent and not incandescent lighting.

For a substrate I use peat moss with sand on that and then pc select (or aquarium gravel on that.

For more information take a look at the link in my signature.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not entirely true. Watts per gallon does not apply to T5HO flourescent and may only sort of apply to spiral CFLs. WPG really only applies to T8/T12 flouresecnt, and some only believe T8. Some T5HO fistures will put out as much as 4 times effective lighting vs the watts they take to power them. Not a good idea to try and apply that rule to T5HO fixtures.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Not entirely true. Watts per gallon does not apply to T5HO flourescent and may only sort of apply to spiral CFLs. WPG really only applies to T8/T12 flouresecnt, and some only believe T8. Some T5HO fistures will put out as much as 4 times effective lighting vs the watts they take to power them. Not a good idea to try and apply that rule to T5HO fixtures.


thanks

Of course my concern is someone applying the rule to incandescent bulbs and as a result having 1/3 to 1/4 the light they need. And it is really confusing for spiral pig tail bulbs where they advertise right on the box say 90w but that is the equilivant incandescent bulb it replaces and the spiral bulb only has ~20w which what should be used for the w/g rule.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> thanks
> 
> Of course my concern is someone applying the rule to incandescent bulbs and as a result having 1/3 to 1/4 the light they need. And it is really confusing for spiral pig tail bulbs where they advertise right on the box say 90w but that is the equilivant incandescent bulb it replaces and the spiral bulb only has ~20w which what should be used for the w/g rule.
> 
> my .02


Yes, equivalent vs actual watts is important. Not something you mentioned before.


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## feathjd (Apr 14, 2012)

Alex,

I have found that you need a natural substrate of some kind. I have been advised by many not to use sand because gases can build up underneath the sand and become dangerous to your tank mates when it releases. The artificial gravel will work fine, but you will have to constantly feed your plants to keep them nutrient healthy. The best plant food on the market in my opinion is the seachems flourish plant tabs. However, there is a better route than that. It is made by the same manufacture, it is a substrate and gravel. It is Seachems Flourite. It has all the necessary nutrients and irons that your plants will need to thrive. I have switched over to this a few months ago and my plants are doing very well. It works best when just used by itself. Word of caution though, it is very dusty so you will need to dump it in a bucket and continueously rinse it until it starts to come out clear water. Time consuming, but well worth it. I mixed it with my current gravel and I now regret not using it by itself. So I am going to be re-doing my substrate in the very near future. Below is the link for the flourite. With this you'll never have to feed your plants. I haven't had to inject CO2 as of yet. 

Flourite | ThatPetPlace.com


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