# New to this.



## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi Everyone. I'm sure this has been covered but I had a few specific questions as well so I thought I'd just post a new thread. First off I have 0 experience with fish in an aquarium. A spur of the moment decision led us to buying a 10 gal starter kit for the kids on Wed. (3/23/11) at the same time we picked up 8 fish and a snail. (6 Tetras, a Guppy, and an Algae eater). All was well. Through out the next day all of the Tetras ended up dying. Now part of the start up kit was missing when we got it. So they all had to sit in the bags for an extra hour while I ran back to get the missing part and we were thinking that is why they ended up dying. So we picked up 5 more at a local Walmart and yep you guessed it 2 of the 5 we picked up died plus the algae eater now joined the list. Now our tank has a Betta, a snail, a guppy, and 2 Tetras. I filled the tank with spring water that we bought and added the conditioner that came with it. It has artifical plants, gravel, artificial coral, and a little tiki guy. It came with a charcoal filter and heater. The temp in the tank is about 78 F and the water is cloudy. Which I assume is because of the cycle.

I know now that the tank has to cycle and I'm guessing that is why I have lost the fish that I have lost. My question here is should I just let it take its course? I read on here somewhere that they suggested daily 10% water change. 

Can I use my well water? I have very hard water with high sulfur content. We do have a softener system but I wasn't sure if the salt would be good for the fish. We also have a reverse osmosis system as a water source.

I know a liquid test is preferred for the tests needed. What brand is the best and where is the best place to get it?

We talked about using real plants. What plants do you recommend?

And finally. The kit didn't come with an air pump. I guess the filter is suppose to add enough DO. Do you think I need one or if I get one will it help it through the cycle?

Thank you for your time and help. :fish-in-bowl:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think your fish probably died because they weren't acclimated to the water they were going to. Drip acclimation is very imporatnt, especially if the water is not very close to where they came from.

API makes a master test kit for freshwater. Wal-mart may have it. If not there then Petsmart/Petco would probably have it. Cost at those two places will be much higher than Wal-mart however.

I use well water myself, although the sulfur content is probably not the same. Water conditioners may take care of the high sulfur, although may need to research sulfur content in aquarium water. You could try letting the water sit overnight and see if becomes more usable then as the sulfur may gas out. Again, not sure on that subject.

The amount of fish you have decided to start with is not good. Way too many for a tank starting a cycle. Okay once it is complete, but not good until it is over. Once all the beneficial bacteria is in place it will be able to handle it. Once you get your testing equipment, you should test daily for ammonia and do a 25-35% water change if the ppm value exceeds 1. After about 10 days or so you should start testing for nitrite and take the same action for water changes. Once the ammonia has spiked and zeroed, nitrite spiked and zeroed, and your left with some nitrate value your cycle should be complete. The number of fish you have will have you doing a lot of water changes to try and save them. For a 10g, 2-3 fish to start with is probably best.

Good luck and try to enjoy it when you can. Sometimes can be frustrating in the beginning, but hang in there and you'll get through it. Ask questions if you need to. We'll try to respond quicker next time.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Get yourself a master kit (the kind with lots of tests in it) people like the API if I'm remembering correctly. Once you have your kit you can go through and test your well water and see what it is like, from an aquarium standpoint, see how hard it is and what kind of hardness. Lots of people love reverse osmosis water for their aquariums, although they usually use an additive to add back some of the minerals and stuff because r/o water is too pure. So maybe you should just go with that since you already have the r/o.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Here is a thread on how to drip acclimate fish:

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks for your responses. I really appreciate it.  I'm hopefully going to get a kit today. All our Walmart had were the test strips. I think the water actually looks a bit clearer today. The fish that are left are looking pretty good so far. I will definitely be using drip acclimation when we get the tank straightened out. Thanks for the link.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good. So how many fish are in there now? I lost count.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

We still have 4 fish. A Betta, a Guppy, and 2 Tetras. Oh and a snail thats not looking to good. Still no test kit though. Hopefully I can find one tonight. I changed out a gallon of the tank water. Its looking even clearer then it was this morning. If I can't get my hands on a test kit today. I know I can at least run a NH3 test tomorrow.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

Drip acclimation for any aquatic animal is mandatory. I'm sure theres fish more hardy than others, but I cannot even entertain the idea of introducing a fish to my system in any other manner.


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## fishman81 (Jan 12, 2011)

i think drip acclimation is a bit hard but the best way. i usually just put the new fish in a bucket with the h20 in the bag. Slowly i add more h20 from my tank to the bucket till i have at least 3x the h20 i started with then net the fish in the tank. usually since i use a 5 gallon i tip it to one side with something underneath to keep the h20 level deep enough. i wish the fish stores used bigger bags and more h20 sometimes.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

I agree, brining home more water to help the acclimation process would sure help with some more sensitive fish.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Well we lost another Tetra this morning. Which leaves us with the Guppy, a Betta, and a Tetra.  The water looks almost as clear as when we first put it in now and we are holding a temp at 78 F.

Ok I got the API Master Test Kit and just ran the test. This is what I got:

pH: 7.4
NH3: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

So whats your take on the numbers? I see this and from what I have read I see that I have a ways to go. Which is understandable since the tank was just started on Wed. (3/23/11) Any suggestions on what to do to help the tank along? Should I keep exchanging 10% of the water with fresh? Thanks


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

Find a colleague or friend who has a healthy system and try to bum some substrate or old filter media from them. The bacteria on it will rapidly cycle your tank.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

There is a problem there. I know absolutely no one that has a fish aquarium. Now I do have a 1/3 of an acre pond. Could I use something from that? Maybe some of the sand from the beach? It is a very clean pond with very healthy fish.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

tjhintze said:


> There is a problem there. I know absolutely no one that has a fish aquarium. Now I do have a 1/3 of an acre pond. Could I use something from that? Maybe some of the sand from the beach? It is a very clean pond with very healthy fish.


I wouldnt trust sand from a beach, you have no idea what contaminants could be in it. I wouldnt take wild objects and place them into my aquarium at all without proper sterilization, with the exception of a system surrounding a local biotype having fish from these same waters in the tank. Ponds too..

The problem truly is that you will always be running a rather serious risk of contaminating your system with wild components in your system. Fish surviving in a body of water, doesn't really mean the body is healthy. Here, where I ice fish over the winter, when contaminants are their lowest, you can only safely eat a few per month without running some serious risk of getting sick, and theres fish biting everywhere! 

The fish slowly adapt to slowly changing parameters, and will cope, the stronger ones will breed, and the stronger offspring will survive. This is similar to the effects on fish from old tank syndrome, after they have grown accustomed to a very polluted body, struggle to adapt to a clean one and can often see a decline in the animals from being placed into a cleaner environment, yikes! This is a great example of why a stable environment over anything is the most important with keeping your aquatic animals.

Given the choice, I would take material from a pond filter before I would enter the unknowns of the wild. The only other option you may have is to purchase live plants from your LFS. They will have their surfaces covered with beneficial bacteria, and if held in an isolated system, should contain zero fish-borne parasites so you could even add the pet store water along with it.. You may encounter snails, however, most people remove these frantically by cleaning their plants, which will remove the bacteria also. However in my years of experience, limiting feeding will limit the capacity for life in your system, control your food, you will control snails at the same time, ive never had "infestations" at all.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would just let it go. Your tank wil cycle with or without the other stuff. Are you sure your Betta hasn't been reaking havoc with the fish you have?


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

@ Slurik Ok I will make sure not to do that then. Thanks. We were thinking of using live plants but didn't know if we should add them at the time.

@ Jrman 83 No I don't think the Betta is doing anything. The first round of fish died before the Betta was in there and the ones that died afterwards have look just like the others. There is no visible signs of anything wrong with them. They look in perfect shape. The Betta kinda keeps to himself. He swims around a bit but mainly stays around the filter and the plants.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

Live plants dont need to be placed into a cycled tank.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Right I realize that. I was just commenting that we were thinking of getting live plants. When we bought the tank.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Ok time for an update. We Now have a guppy left.  The Betta died today. and the Tetra died yesterday. So I ran my numbers again and there is zero change. I still have:

pH: 7.4
NH3: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Now its been a week shouldn't the NH3 be higher then this? I did have a thought that might make a difference. I didn't realize this at the time but the water I used was spring water from the store. I thought it was straight from a spring but I guess it is Ozonation treated and filtered. I got a 2.5 gal jug with tap water today. I am going to do a water change tomorrow. I figured a 25% water change using the tap water might be good for the tank. What do you guys think good idea? Also I was wondering is the one guppy enough to get the tank to cycle? Thanks for the help.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Why not use your tap water or why did you ever think to use that water? Your tap water has a lot of minerals that your fish need. Sometimes they are completely stripped in bottled water and it is too soft. Put in tap and be sure to treat with conditioner.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Well my well water isn't all that great. Its high in sulfur and it has a tendency to turn things orange after awhile. That is why we have the reverse osmosis. When I saw spring water I guess I thought it was water straight from a spring. I should have known better. I have city tap water in a jug now and I have some conditioner to put in it. I will do a 25% water change this morning.

Will I have to add more fish to get the tank to cycle or is the one good enough?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah, I should have gone back to the top of the thread to refresh myself on your stuff. If it were me I would try doing 50/50 RO/tap water and see how that worked. I would also set your tap water up in buckets or in a new plastic garbage can (depending on how much water you need) and letting the water gas out for a day before adding to your tank. I would do it that way and see how it worked out and adjust as needed. Just what I would do.

Also, make sure that whatever water conditioner you're using states that it detoxifies heavy metals. Just not sure if all do that.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks Jrman83. I will give that a try and check to make sure that the conditioner will take care of the heavy metals. Thanks 

Oh will I need more fish for the cycle?


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Ok I did a 30% water change on Thursday. I checked today and I now have some variations. 

pH: 7.4-7.5
NH3: 1.0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

How high should I let the NH3 get before I should do a WC?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If it stays at 1 or below it should be fine. If it gets much higher I'd do a water change. Same for nitrites if you ever see any show up.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks again jrman83.  I appreciate all your help. 

I think I will get 2 more fish to keep things going. Good idea? I read some where that you should have 3 or 4 fish while cycling.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A few more would be good. You only have 1 in there, right?


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Yep just the one guppy. Thought of another question. Should I be adding air to the tank? Right now it only gets what the filter return water gives it.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Things are happening. I just ran todays numbers:

pH: 7.4-7.5
NH3: 1.0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 1 or 2 (It wasn't 0 which was yellow. It had a slight orange color to it.)


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not a requirement. Filter will provide plenty of air. Largely personal preference. It does help add air to the tank, but your filter provides more than it will.

I know what you mean by not quite yellow. Good.


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## slurik (Dec 19, 2010)

Air bubbles look nice, and many people feel that they improve on water quality. I've succeeded with and without air kits, so I wouldn't say they're mandatory, but they sure don't hurt unless you have far too much of course. The waterfall of the filter return will keep the water adequately oxygenated so long as the water remains at a reasonable temperature. The colder water is, the more oxygen it can hold, and the warmer the water is, the less oxygen it can hold.

However when aquarists grow plants, they will often use all submerged pumps and no air bubblers to reduce water disturbances at the surface. They employ these methods to keep more CO2 in the water, as surface disturbances increase the rate that which these gases dissipate into the atmosphere.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Great thanks for the info guys.  I will keep you updated and thanks again.


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi guys. I know its been a while but I wanted to again say thank you for all your time and help. I now have a tank full of very happy fish. :fish5: Not to mention Both kids now have tanks in their room, which makes a total of three tanks. (A 10 gal, 2.5 gal, and a 1 Gal.) I have finally convinced my wife we should go Bigger. lol She wants a saltwater tank, but I think it may be a bit more expensive and time consuming then I am willing to do right now. I'm kinda leaning towards African Cichlids. Maybe in a 55 gal tank. Her is a pic of our tank. Thanks again.


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

nice looking tank there, You've come a long way in a little under a year huh. see a little patients goes a long way. nice of you to post pic and update so the people that helped ya know you did good


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## tjhintze (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks hanky. Yeah a little patience sure goes a long way. The least I could do is post a pic. It wouldn't look anything like it does if it wasn't for their help. I have a learned a lot from this forum and I am very glad that I found it.


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