# New Tank Set Up - High pH and Cloudy



## tashelby (May 10, 2012)

Ok. Here we go. My husband gave me a tank Christmas before last, and I'm finally getting it set up. He's pretty sure it's 32 gallons. I got the basics set up on Monday (5/7) -- filter, heater, thermometer, gravel, artificial plants, 2 ceramic decoractions, and of course water (tap) --, added a basic start-up conditioner, and sat back to wait. 

Now. I want to go ahead and add a few "hardy" fish to get things started (I have a 2 year old who is about ready to climb into the tank herself just so there will be something in there), but my pH levels are off the charts. I have a normal range pH test kit (which I thought would be sufficient as I plan on setting this up as a community tank), so all I know for certain is that the pH level is 8.0 or above. The water is also a little cloudy.

3 things: What can I do to bring the pH level down to 7.0 (and keep it there), what should I do about the cloudy issue, and what else do I need to buy before adding the fish?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

In most cases your fish will acclimate to whatever ph you have. There is no need to try and get your ph to 7.0. Doing so will only end up causing you problems you don't want. You need to get a high range ph test kit. How do you know that you have a 8.0ph if you have the low range kit....it only goes to 7.6 (I think). One of the high range kits comes in the API master fw kit, which I would suggest you get.

The cloudy issue is probably caused by the gravel having residue and should go away soon. Some require lots and lots of rinsing.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

use the high range pH test kit.

Kill the lights and stop adding food to clear up cloudiness.

Or do nothing if the cloudiness is very light.

FWIW I have a pH of 8.4-8.8 on my planted tanks. The plants suck out carbon dioxide which results in a high pH. Fish do just fine. So I would not nothing about the pH. In and of itself that is nothing to worry about.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> FWIW I have a pH of 8.4-8.8 on my planted tanks. The plants suck out carbon dioxide which results in a high pH.


To the original poster, don't let this scare you if you wanted to add plants. This is a something only seen in stagnat tanks with no water movement or flow. I have 5 planted tanks and none of them have a high ph created by the plants.

Plants do not cause/create a high ph.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> To the original poster, don't let this scare you if you wanted to add plants. This is a something only seen in stagnat tanks with no water movement or flow. I have 5 planted tanks and none of them have a high ph created by the plants.
> 
> Plants do not cause/create a high ph.


I don't agree on this one, I have planted tanks with good filters and have found plants can effect pH. I agree that plants are good for the fish and any effect they have on pH is not harmful.



> Kill the lights and stop adding food to clear up cloudiness.


Sorry it seems to be my day for disagreeing but less light wont help, that is only for 'green water' caused by algae blooms. This tank has just been set up so the cloudiness is just particles from the gravel or even air bubbles, it will settle on it's own.

To the OP: Don't add any chemicals for the pH, they tend to cause problems. Is the pH out of the tap also high? Let a cup of water sit overnight to settle then test pH from the tap. If pH from the tap is the same then you know there is nothing in the tank that could be raising pH. If your tap water has a high pH you may want to avoid fish that love a low pH but most fish will get used to the pH you have as long as it is stable.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello tash...

Don't sweat the water chemistry just yet. Since you have everything set up, let's get some fish into the tank. I like Guppies, Zebra Danios or Platys to get the cycling process started. A few fish, say half a dozen, will do for your 32 G.

On a side note, see if you can get some Water sprite, Water wisteria or Pennywort from the local pet shop / fish place and float that in the tank. Real plants are natural water filters and will help in the cycling process. 

Then, get your handy, dandy API water test kit and test for ammonia and nitrites every day. We want to make sure the fish stay healthy.

When the tests show even a trace of the above water pollutants, you need to remove about one-quarter of the tank water and replace it with pure, treated tap water. Keep testing every day and replacing the water when needed. When you have several tests that read "0" for ammonia and nitrites, then add a few more fish and repeat the above steps until your tank is fully stocked. A couple of dozen, small fish in the end will be plenty.

Then, just add a few plants from time to time and change out half the water in the tank every week or so to keep the environment safe for your fish.

Pretty simple.

B


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## tashelby (May 10, 2012)

you guys are great! thanks! i added the first fish last night (4 red wag platties), and the water DOES seem a little clearer this morning. i picked up the API master test kit while i was getting these little platty beauties, and will run a round in a bit. will def keep everyone posted! thanks again for all the tips!! 

PS BBradbury, i just might have to use that as my new handle... tash... kinda cute, actually...


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## BettaSmart (Mar 22, 2012)

tashelby said:


> you guys are great! thanks! i added the first fish last night (4 red wag platties), and the water DOES seem a little clearer this morning. i picked up the API master test kit while i was getting these little platty beauties, and will run a round in a bit. will def keep everyone posted! thanks again for all the tips!!


Since you got platties their pretty hardy you don't want your ammonia to go anywhere near 1.0 if that happens do an instant 50% water change but of course make sure not to catch any fish in your water change,Also I agree test your LIQUID test kit every day for about 4-5 weeks.DO NOT add anymore fish till this is over.Otherwise you can spike up the ammonia and nitrite and nitrate in the tank and cause it to be inbalance for awhile.Your tank needs time to adjust to the new bioload espically with a new tank.Also watch your fish for new tank syndrom.

Also like everyone said,live plants will help,I got live plants in my tank as well and I have no trace of ammonia and nitrite and nitrate but mines heavily planted.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> I don't agree on this one, I have planted tanks with good filters and have found plants can effect pH. I agree that plants are good for the fish and any effect they have on pH is not harmful.


So what do you see in your tank? My non-CO2, planted shrimp tank is rock solid 7.5 with only 2dkh after 2wks of no water changes even, with 80/20 RO/tap. 

It is no mystery that plants causes slight fluctuations during the lighting cycle, but that is not what we're talking about in Bob's case and hope it isn't in yours. If so, you have other issues causing that.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I have been doing a lot of research on substrates and what I have found during this research on peat, is that peat has a high oxygen demand and will pull oxygen out of the water causing the ph to rise. Plants will pull oxygen out of the water as well but not to the extent of much of ph rise. Using peat should be done by just a small dusting on the bottom to less than 1/2 inch layer with a thicker layer of another inert substrate on top.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> So what do you see in your tank? My non-CO2, planted shrimp tank is rock solid 7.5 with only 2dkh after 2wks of no water changes even, with 80/20 RO/tap.
> 
> It is no mystery that plants causes slight fluctuations during the lighting cycle, but that is not what we're talking about in Bob's case and hope it isn't in yours. If so, you have other issues causing that.


Sorry just saw your reply now. Yeh, I think we are both talking about 'slight fluctuations during the lighting cycle'. I just understood by your other post that that doesn't happen.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

susankat said:


> I have been doing a lot of research on substrates and what I have found during this research on peat, is that peat has a high oxygen demand and will pull oxygen out of the water causing the ph to rise. Plants will pull oxygen out of the water as well but not to the extent of much of ph rise. Using peat should be done by just a small dusting on the bottom to less than 1/2 inch layer with a thicker layer of another inert substrate on top.


That sounds interesting but I think I'm missing a bit of the puzzle here, I think it's HIGH oxygen levels or LOW CO2 that raise pH.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

susankat said:


> I have been doing a lot of research on substrates and what I have found during this research on peat, is that peat has a high oxygen demand and will pull oxygen out of the water causing the ph to rise. Plants will pull oxygen out of the water as well but not to the extent of much of ph rise. Using peat should be done by just a small dusting on the bottom to less than 1/2 inch layer with a thicker layer of another inert substrate on top.


If it started to decay would it cause this? I know that a lot of decaying material in water will deplete areas of oxygen. This is why you get big fish kills from the aftermath of a hurricane - too much rotting debris in the water. I know that numerous people on here have mentioned how nasty it smelled when removed and Walstad and one other well-known author that I have read a book from mentions specifically not to use it in a tank due to it decaying and causing other issues. They don't really go into what those issues are though.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> That sounds interesting but I think I'm missing a bit of the puzzle here, I think it's HIGH oxygen levels or LOW CO2 that raise pH.


Low CO2 can raise ph, but it doesn't mean that water from a different source with a higher ph has less or more CO2. For instance...my well water is 8.2 ph and my RODI water has a ph of 6.8. After 24hrs of aerating them in a 5g bucket, my well is the same, my RODI water is 7.0. In other words, a low ph does not mean a high CO2 content unless that is what is in your tank and you're injecting CO2. If that was all it meant, then by doing to what I did with the two buckets of water, both should have the same ph after 24hrs and good aeration. Ph is derived from more than just CO2 in the water.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Ph is derived from more than just CO2 in the water.


I completely agree that many factors can influence pH, of course mineral content probably being the most important. 

In the context of how CO2 and oxygen effect pH I think susankat may have made typo in her comment, or I am missing an important factor. It is my understanding that low oxygen leads to a drop in pH not a rise in pH. Low CO2 on the other hand causes an increase in pH.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

snail said:


> Low CO2 on the other hand causes an increase in pH.


In a tank where you inject CO2, if you start injecting less then ph rises. I say it that way because there are other influences that cause ph differences.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> In a tank where you inject CO2, if you start injecting less then ph rises. I say it that way because there are other influences that cause ph differences.


Sorry I'm not quite sure what you point is except that there are many factors that effect pH which we agree on completely. 

My question is why would less oxygen cause a higher pH?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I have an example of how high content co2 well water has done in the case of a friend of mine.

He drew out a glass of his well water, well water being colder has a higher content of 
co2 in it. Ph out of tap is 6.1 tested with digital meter, once set 24 hours to outgas co2 the ph rose past 9. High co2 content lowers ph as seen when injecting co2. once the co2 is off for the night ph rises close to normal ph.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

susankat said:


> I have an example of how high content co2 well water has done in the case of a friend of mine.
> 
> He drew out a glass of his well water, well water being colder has a higher content of
> co2 in it. Ph out of tap is 6.1 tested with digital meter, once set 24 hours to outgas co2 the ph rose past 9. High co2 content lowers ph as seen when injecting co2. once the co2 is off for the night ph rises close to normal ph.


Wow that's crazy! Does it cause issues for him?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Weird....my well water doesn't budge, but it is at 8.2 from the tap. Very cool water....well is 400+ft deep.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Not really he even has angels. Long as they are acclimated right most fish will adjust. Now breeding can be a different story. Eggs will not hatch in water that hard unless they are a hard water species.


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