# QUICK, need help...aquarium OVERHAUL...t-minus 5 hours



## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

We are only 5 hours away from the aquarium overhaul.

If you've kept up w/ me in some of my other posts, basically we are removing everything in the tank and putting it in a large storage tub filled with the aquarium's water (fish, plants, decor, etc). 

We are then going to remove all the rock at the bottom until theres nothing but glass showing.

From there, we will then put down our new substrate mix (recommended from this site)

layer 1 = peat moss (just plain spaghnum i believe peat moss from lowes)

layer 2 = play sand

layer 3 = the gravel we removed earlier

then we're going to refill it and put everything back



Just a few concerns i have before we do this after work today...
1) do we need to wash or soak the peat moss or anything? or just put down a layer straight from the bag?

2) same question as #1 except about the play sand

3) when putting the live plants in, do we put them all the way to the peat moss? or put them in the rocks and they will grow to the moss themselves?

4) are there any other layers we should put in before we put the final gravel over? we dont want to have to do this again, any supplements? any plantfood? anything at all?

5) ive been reading a lot where people say this layering can cause toxic bubbles or fumes? is this something i should be worried about w/ my planned layering?

6) any other tips, advice, thoughts, suggestions, remarks, comments, lol, etc etc etc are more than appreciated.

thanks so much

ill be sure to take pictures of the drastic fiasco


oh, tank is a 55 gallon rectangle


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Make sure you take the water way down. Otheriwse you'll have a mess with the peat.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Make sure you take the water way down. Otheriwse you'll have a mess with the peat.


YA I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT. I FIGURE WE'LL TAKE EVERY LAST DROP OF THE WATER OUT IF WE HAVE TO.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Plus, I think others have gotten away with not soaking if you got the second layer on before adding water. Not sure though.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Plus, I think others have gotten away with not soaking if you got the second layer on before adding water. Not sure though.


THANKS A TON

I FIGURE WE'LL PUT THE PEAT MOSS IN, THEN PUT THE SAND ON, THEN PUT THE ROCKS ON, THEN ADD THE WATER


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

I dont think the fish can go in right away till the peat is settled. you will have some muck from the new sub kicked into the water but minimal. I hear of people using a craft thick paper UNDER a dinner plate then pouring the water on the plate and any splash the paper catches so it doesnt disturb the bottom(aquascaper trick).

I think BeaslBob will be your best bud on this build.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> I dont think the fish can go in right away till the peat is settled. you will have some muck from the new sub kicked into the water but minimal. I hear of people using a craft thick paper UNDER a dinner plate then pouring the water on the plate and any splash the paper catches so it doesnt disturb the bottom(aquascaper trick).
> 
> I think BeaslBob will be your best bud on this build.


Aw gosh 

Gee whillikers

Shuckies dern

Farm out 
outta state.

and all that.

If you can take all the water out.

put in each layer then add water to the top of that layer and level it out and clean the tank sides.

Repeat for next layer.

After gravel (and wet, level, clean) plant the plants before adding the water back.

The refill the tank by pouring the water over a dish.

Should result in an almost clear tank immediately.

my .02

and let us know how it goes.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Aw gosh
> 
> Gee whillikers
> 
> ...



SO U SAY PUT WATER IN ON TOP OF EACH LAYER? WILL DO
THANKS A TON


I WAS READING PEAT MOSS IS LOW IN NUTRIENTS AND WHAT NOT, DO I NEED TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE PEAT MOSS, SAND, AND GRAVEL?


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

I Love This Website, Ive Probably Had More Questions Answered On This Forum Than At My Lfs. Not To Mention So Much More Timely.

I Hate My Lfs. Went In The Other Day To Ask About A New Light Fixture Before Ordering One Online, She Told Me She Didnt Have Time.

Went In Another Time To Pick Up A Couple Clown Loaches, She Told Me Until She Buys Her Kids Christmas Presents, She Wont Be Ordering Anymore Fish. 

Needless To Say, I Think She's Going To Go Out Of Business Soon.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> SO U SAY PUT WATER IN ON TOP OF EACH LAYER? WILL DO


Yes. and just put water in enough to wet each layer. But not so much the peat actually starts floating.


> THANKS A TON


 welcome


> I WAS READING PEAT MOSS IS LOW IN NUTRIENTS AND WHAT NOT, DO I NEED TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE PEAT MOSS, SAND, AND GRAVEL?


Nothing else needed. Peat moss with nutrients will actually create more algae problems.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Yes. and just put water in enough to wet each layer. But not so much the peat actually starts floating. welcomeNothing else needed. Peat moss with nutrients will actually create more algae problems.


thanks and thanks!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> thanks and thanks!


Actually I have only done this with brand new setsups.

So how it works for a redo would be interesting.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Actually I have only done this with brand new setsups.
> 
> So how it works for a redo would be interesting.


ill take plenty of pictures and let ya know

its gonna be a long night i would imagine


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> ill take plenty of pictures and let ya know
> 
> its gonna be a long night i would imagine


Try to avoid looking at your handy work for hours after it is all done. *old dude


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

beaslbob said:


> Aw gosh
> 
> Gee whillikers
> 
> ...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, dont go gettin all ego swollen and stuff,lol. You want the best, gotta ask the resident best, right? I make mud tanks when I try this every time.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, dont go gettin all ego swollen and stuff,lol. You want the best, gotta ask the resident best, right? I make mud tanks when I try this every time.


GREAT! IM EITHER GONNA BE SO EGO SWOLL MY HEAD WONT FIT THROUGH THE DOOR OR IM GONNA BE PLAYING IN MUD TONIGHT.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

It might be too late, but the peat moss will float unless it is soaked. I soaked my sphagnum peat moss for a full day before I put it in. Worked like a charm, no cloudiness or floaties at all.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

ok quick question
could i not just put in the peat moss, leave it completely dry
then put sand over it, leave it dry

then add the gravel over it
then add the water...
i mean, wouldnt the water work its way down through the gravel easy enough to eventually soak the bottom two layers?


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

im starting to get scared now.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

sharkattack said:


> ok quick question
> could i not just put in the peat moss, leave it completely dry
> then put sand over it, leave it dry
> 
> ...


Yes.


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## saltydad (Jun 27, 2008)

Good luck! This reminds me of having to move 3 reef tanks, 30, 75 and 120. Indeed, a very long night, very good friends, and a good supply of beer. *old dude


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

sorry I didn't respond to your PM... I was at work when I seen it, and I started to type a response, but had to put my phone down and do something, and I completely forgot about it 


here's my experience with the peatmoss/sand/gravel layering

SOAK THE PEAT MOSS BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO PUT IT IN THE TANK!

the best way to do this I've found is to put the dry peat moss right out of the bag into a 5 gallon bucket. fill it up about 3/4 of the way with just peat moss. then add water to it. the water will go straight to the bottom and the peat moss WILL begin to float on top of the water; that's why we're doing this step  once the peat moss floats up and is at the top of the bucket, it's time to get your hand(s) dirty. stick your hand down into the floating peat moss, all the way down to the water, and begin to churn the peat moss and the water together with your hand(s) and fingers. as the peat moss starts soaking up the water, it will start to drop back down into the bucket. when you can't feel any more open water at the bottom and it feels like just mud, but there's still dry peat moss on the top, put more water in and stick your hand in there and churn some more.

do this until there is both no open water at the bottom of the bucket (or floating on top of the peat moss if you get it completely saturated) and no dry patches of peat moss left that you can see. you want the mixture to basically be a thick mud. not a watery soup, because then it's just more of a mess to work with, and it's going to make adding the sand layer messing as well. if can get it to a thick mud consistency, it's easy to put in and spread out evenly. there shouldn't be any free-standing water once you get that soaked layer of peat moss in the tank.























once your satisfied with that layer, the next two are a piece of cake


just start adding the sand (I used this play sand right out of the bag; didn't even rinse it) and level it out. if you're using the play sand, it's pretty heavy stuff, so there's really no need to add the water to the top of this layer. doing so just increases the chances of it or the peat moss trying to float back up and mixing and making a mess.






















then add your gravel on top of the sand layer. again, just spread it out. once you get the last layer of gravel in, you can begin filling it with water. this is where the plate method is a MUST. if you start pouring water in right on the gravel, it'll probably push right through the gravel and churn up the sand and peat moss and you'll make a massive mess in the tank.








































as you can see, this exact method left me with a CRYSTAL CLEAR tank right away. and it'll pretty much stay that way until you have to pull a plant up for any reason and the roots bring chunks of sand and peat moss with them... but it usually settles back down pretty quick.

this was my tank as soon as I got done filling it with water for the first time














as you already know I'm sure, a 1" layer of each is best. I actually added not enough sand and too much gravel I think... but it doesn't seem to be having any ill effects that I can see (aside from plants like Micro Sword having a hard time establishing a root system)


planting, I like to try to get the plants root system all the way through the gravel layer and down to the sand at least. this is harder with plants like Amazon Swords with their wider base and root system, and bulb plants like my Aponogetons. but plants like my Argentine Swords, Wisteria, and even Anacharis shoots, are easy to push all the way down to the peat moss layer with a pair of tweezers grasping onto the center root stem. I try and plant them as deep as I can to help keep them put and so they'll develop a strong holding root system, and they all seem to dig in and grow roots pretty quickly. most will send roots straight to the bottom, even if you only put them gravel-deep


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Yes.


O guess you can *old dude

the main thing is the sand "traps" the peat moss so it will get water logged without clouding up the tank


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I have a quick question.Could you not plant the plants in the peat and then add the sand and gravel around them?Just thought it would be easier to plant.,without causing the mix of layers.

Another question.If you have eco complete,which is sand and gravel,could you not do the peat then the eco?


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

hope all goes well!, be sure to keep a check on your levels. You're going to be losing a large amount of biofiltration so you may have ammonia levels increase until it re-establishes. I've never done a set up like that so this is just a thought. Good luck!


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

well, the overhaul only took about 3.5 hours to complete, and it went off w/out a single problem whatsoever. 

i didnt get a lot of pictures as my hands were constantly filthy and didnt want to ruin my phone

but here are the pics of what i got


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

do those bottles of bacteria supplement from petsmart actually work? i was reading somewhere that a lot of times those bottles are a sham, as by the time you actually pour it into your tank, the bacteria have long since died since they were bottled?

just curious what the common view is on those bacteria supplements?
also, if you do recommend using them, how often? how much? 


i also read buying filters that contain carbon in them in advance is a bad idea as you want to put the freshest carbon in, rather than buying a 10-pack and letting them sit under your tank for months. not sure about this either


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> well, the overhaul only took about 3.5 hours to complete, and it went off w/out a single problem whatsoever.
> 
> i didnt get a lot of pictures as my hands were constantly filthy and didnt want to ruin my phone
> 
> but here are the pics of what i got


Is that as clear as I think it is?

if so then very very successful.

You should have seen my original tanks before I started this. Immediately after setup you literally could not see 1" into the water. Yet 2 days later they were clear.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> do those bottles of bacteria supplement from petsmart actually work? i was reading somewhere that a lot of times those bottles are a sham, as by the time you actually pour it into your tank, the bacteria have long since died since they were bottled?
> 
> just curious what the common view is on those bacteria supplements?
> also, if you do recommend using them, how often? how much?
> ...


The bacteria in a bottle are at most unnecessary at worse well worse.

With lotsa fast growing plants even with the assumption there are no bacteria to consume ammonia, the plants will consume the ammonia preventing the dangerous spikes. Then the bacteria will build up and finally the plants will consume the resulting nitrates.

I don't use any filtrations carbon or otherwise. the plants themselves IMHO are the best filters.*old dude


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Looks good. I would guess next steps are real furniture? Plants, driftwood, rock? Lighting upgrade possibly?

I think results vary on tank bacteria additives. Difficult to tell if they really work. People have done it and compared to their last tank, but every tank is different. Sometimes the cycle naturally goes faster than other times with or without an additive.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Is that a clear as I think it is?
> 
> if so then very very successful.
> 
> ...


yep, everything went well. i might have put a little more peat moss and a little more sand than i should have, but, im not too concerned seeing as there was nothing under there before


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> The bacteria in a bottle are at most unnecessary at worse well worse.
> 
> With lotsa fast growing plants even with the assumption there are no bacteria to consume ammonia, the plants will consume the ammonia preventing the dangerous spikes. Then the bacteria will build up and finally the plants will consume the resulting nitrates.
> 
> ...


thank ya much


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Looks good. I would guess next steps are real furniture? Plants, driftwood, rock? Lighting upgrade possibly?
> 
> I think results vary on tank bacteria additives. Difficult to tell if they really work. People have done it and compared to their last tank, but every tank is different. Sometimes the cycle naturally goes faster than other times with or without an additive.


lighting is on its way from san fran, ca right now. dang fedex, its sitting in sacramento now.  4 foot T5HO from fishneedit.com

the gf wont let me ever take the dragon out (hahahaha, oh that definitely came out wrong, lol)

let me rephrase, she wont let me take the decor out, but yes, all the fake plants will be coming out once the new lighting arrives, and live plants will be ordered. currently there are live plants in it now, just a few


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Hopefully you will be amazed at how fast the live plants grow.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Hopefully you will be amazed at how fast the live plants grow.


im thinking about ordering a package deal from liveaquaria.com
Freshwater Plants: Freshwater Aquarium Plant Species for the Home Aquarium

has anyone ordered from them before?

my LFS sucks, im not even going to mess w/ them. the next closest shop is 1.5 hours away, they are really good, but unless i'm traveling that way, i hate to make that drive.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

majerah1 said:


> I have a quick question.Could you not plant the plants in the peat and then add the sand and gravel around them?Just thought it would be easier to plant.,without causing the mix of layers.


Sure. Or even put the peat on top, fill the tank with water from a garden hose, the plant the plants.

The reason for all the layering is just to keep the tank initially clear.

But actually just about any method that anchors the plants can be used.

Just that the tank will be extremely cloudy for a few days.


> Another question.If you have eco complete,which is sand and gravel,could you not do the peat then the eco?


I guess so. I have seen some mineralized substrate methods the specifically do not want peat added. So perhaps eco does not need the peat.

But it sure seems to help IME when using plain old sand.


my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> im thinking about ordering a package deal from liveaquaria.com
> Freshwater Plants: Freshwater Aquarium Plant Species for the Home Aquarium
> 
> has anyone ordered from them before?
> ...


No direct experience but they do have a good reputation.

I have ordered from AquariumPlants.com Largest online sales / service site for the live aquarium plants & aquarium products community. and been very satisfied.


my .02


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## aquaticsnerd (Jan 29, 2011)

Here is another trust-worthy online shop:
Planted Aquariums Central


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Thanks,Bob.The reason I ask,is I have to do complete tear downs of all my tanks.Ive been looking to add peat,but I dont have any sand.The substarte I have,is like eco complete,made by the same company,but it is lacking the fertz i suppose.Still a mix of sand and gravel,and it levels itself out quite quickly.

I guess im goin half beasl build hahahaha.

Looks great sharkattack!I still think you should send me that dragon....


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> Thanks,Bob.The reason I ask,is I have to do complete tear downs of all my tanks.Ive been looking to add peat,but I dont have any sand.The substarte I have,is like eco complete,made by the same company,but it is lacking the fertz i suppose.Still a mix of sand and gravel,and it levels itself out quite quickly.
> 
> I guess im goin half beasl build hahahaha.
> 
> Looks great sharkattack!I still think you should send me that dragon....


if u plan on doing an aquarium overhaul like we did last night, go for it. it wasnt even half as bad as i was expecting.

the key to it though was having everything laid out, ready to go. i probably went through the steps of what i was going to do 15 times to make sure i dont have to run to the store real quick, or run get this or that.

ya, the dragon is pretty cool. picked it up at petsmart.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah i have no choice.We are moving up the road,lol.I have two large tanks,one small and little containers to move.My fish will hate me for a few days.

Ive seen the dragons at petsmart.I was thinking of getting the one that lays down more,I think its 17.99 now.But I have a house to get ready before any more money is spent on the tanks.I will have a yard though so Im stoked.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

pretty sure we lost a pregnant danio this morning. not sure if it was from the stress of changing the tank like we did or what.

plus, two of my gf's other danio's look pregnant, and are being chased like crazy by a smaller danio


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> pretty sure we lost a pregnant danio this morning. not sure if it was from the stress of changing the tank like we did or what.
> 
> plus, two of my gf's other danio's look pregnant, and are being chased like crazy by a smaller danio


If you do not have live plants currently in there and have lost a fish after this change, I would keep a close eye on ammonia.

I also would not add food to the tank for a few days to help keep the bioload down.


my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

No Ammonia Or Anything, Just Did Some Water Tests At Lunch. No Nitrates No Nitrites No Chlorine. Hardness Is About Even, Ph Is About Even, And So Is The Alkalinity


The Fish That Died Looked Pregnant, Pretty Sure When I Pulled Her Out And Popped Her I Saw Eggs Coming Out...could Be Wrong Though.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> No Ammonia Or Anything, Just Did Some Water Tests At Lunch. No Nitrates No Nitrites No Chlorine. Hardness Is About Even, Ph Is About Even, And So Is The Alkalinity
> 
> 
> The Fish That Died Looked Pregnant, Pretty Sure When I Pulled Her Out And Popped Her I Saw Eggs Coming Out...could Be Wrong Though.


sounds good.

She could have been egg laden as you suspected and needed to spawn.

hopefully things will go smoothly.

my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> sounds good.
> 
> She could have been egg laden as you suspected and needed to spawn.
> 
> ...


ya, i found her sucked up to the filter, she'd only been dead for an hour or so i'd guess.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

random question
could a danio thats pregnant, gravid, whatever its called...could one lay eggs, the eggs rot, then my nitrates and nitrites skyrocket?

im looking at all the zebra danios now, and hell, 3/4 of them are gigantic. i figured they just got fat, but im wondering if they are al lfull of eggs, as there are two danios who are still tiny, or thin looking (maybe the males)

because up until i overhauled my tank, our nitrites and nitrates were out of control, we even took a thing of water to petsmart and he couldnt believe anything was living in it


any thoughts?


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

Just to clarify ? I currently have sand in my tank so if I want a pLanted tank do I need to change the substrate ? 
Should I completely change to some nutritioned gravel like eco or 

Adding peat moss under the sand would be enough ? 

I'm planning on making it a dense forest


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

How much gravel do you need? My buddy sells this awesome stuff called Baylee's Better Bottom. Check it out if you want a gravel upgrade. Its large flat rate box for shipping and I think 40# of it is 35 bucks and he has 25# packs as well for around 20 bucks I think.

It is a true gravel made of the same stuff thats in flourite and the like, the different between the BBB and others? BBB NEVER breaks down,ever and he does have a sand grade at 1-1.5mm grain size and his regular gravel is 3-3.5mm grain size.
I ordered it for my 50B and going to order it for my 210 once taxes get back


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

tinman said:


> Just to clarify ? I currently have sand in my tank so if I want a pLanted tank do I need to change the substrate ?
> Should I completely change to some nutritioned gravel like eco or
> 
> Adding peat moss under the sand would be enough ?
> ...


I have used just sand on many tanks but found that to keep neon tetras peat was needed.

I also found that kh and gh stayed constant (4 degrees and 9 degrees) for years but both rose to high levels with just sand. kh was like 19 degrees and gh was like 35 degrees after 4 years with just sand.



I would recommend you use peat based on that experience.

But even with that I have had plain sand tanks that ran for years and years. Jut not with neon tetras.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> How much gravel do you need? My buddy sells this awesome stuff called Baylee's Better Bottom. Check it out if you want a gravel upgrade. Its large flat rate box for shipping and I think 40# of it is 35 bucks and he has 25# packs as well for around 20 bucks I think.
> 
> It is a true gravel made of the same stuff thats in flourite and the like, the different between the BBB and others? BBB NEVER breaks down,ever and he does have a sand grade at 1-1.5mm grain size and his regular gravel is 3-3.5mm grain size.
> I ordered it for my 50B and going to order it for my 210 once taxes get back


And just for comparison

2/3rds cubic yard of peat moss $11 (building supply stores)

50 pounds play sand $3.99 (building supply stores)

50 pounds pro choice select $8 (contact pc select web site for local suppliers)

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> random question
> could a danio thats pregnant, gravid, whatever its called...could one lay eggs, the eggs rot, then my nitrates and nitrites skyrocket?
> 
> im looking at all the zebra danios now, and hell, 3/4 of them are gigantic. i figured they just got fat, but im wondering if they are al lfull of eggs, as there are two danios who are still tiny, or thin looking (maybe the males)
> ...



my concern is that without live plants nitrItes and nitrates are still high.

NitrItes are the thing to worry about fish wise.

If you still have nitrItes stop adding food until they drop down.

get fast growing live plants in there asap.

my .02


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> How much gravel do you need? My buddy sells this awesome stuff called Baylee's Better Bottom. Check it out if you want a gravel upgrade. Its large flat rate box for shipping and I think 40# of it is 35 bucks and he has 25# packs as well for around 20 bucks I think.
> 
> It is a true gravel made of the same stuff thats in flourite and the like, the different between the BBB and others? BBB NEVER breaks down,ever and he does have a sand grade at 1-1.5mm grain size and his regular gravel is 3-3.5mm grain size.
> I ordered it for my 50B and going to order it for my 210 once taxes get back


thanks
but i like the look of the sand 

i think ill get another 10lbs from the same lfs and add peat mosss 


also i had amazon sword for the last 4 months and it ddnt die so i was wondering f i dont have to add moss also 



thanks bealsbob


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

BBB looks very natural.If I had the cash I would love some.Ive heard rave reviews about it.


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## tinman (Nov 3, 2009)

Bbb is it good for plants 

Better than moss and sand ? I mean worth the price difference?


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## ReStart (Jan 3, 2011)

My two cents, worry about substrate later, worry about nitrites now. Do 25% wc's until nitrites come down to survivable levels. You didn't say what the nitrite readings were, what are they?

Petco etc. mostly says that about any water. I've tested for ammonia, read 0, and had them tell me it was deadly. Yeah, right. If you have chemistry problems, get good test kits, test often, do wc and go from there. A caveat to that is some REAL LFS, do know how to test water and give good advice.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

From:Hobby

BAYLEES BETTER BOTTOM - This is our very favorite product and turning into one of the hobby's as well. BBB, named by hobbyists, is a special mixture of gravel that benifits aquatic plants. When someone tells you those plants prefer a nutrient rich substrate, they are referring to BBB. We searched and researched talking to universities and professors to find exactly what rocks have the micro and macronutrients plants need. Our search produced BBB and you don't have to take our words for it, just ask any hobbyist that uses BBB and they will tell you it is the best on the market. It's dark color reduces stress in fish, while allowing them to display their rich colors. The grain is small for easy root manipulation and development. Use can use it solely in your tank, or mix it into your favorite gravel, or use it in pots in bare bottom tanks. BBB will not alter your water and is safe for ALL fish. Sold in bulk and retail packs and now an even smaller grain!

Forgot to add,you can find his auction on aquabid.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

that turned out to be a nice overhaul!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

majerah1 said:


> *BBB* looks very natural.If I had the cash I would love some.Ive heard rave reviews about it.


don't know how it looks but my wife tells me a BeaslBob Bottom can be very expensive. *old dude



much more then .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

that's not something we want to think abaout....


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## zubanhunter (Mar 22, 2011)

I know I'm a bit late to this tread, but it is a great thread. Thanks for all of the useful information!

I am planning on doing a similar rebuild of my tank this weekend to replace my topfin colored gravel with something more like a beaslbob build. 

SharkAttack, what did you end up doing wrt soaking the peat? Did you add water after each layer or only at the end?


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

zubanhunter said:


> I know I'm a bit late to this tread, but it is a great thread. Thanks for all of the useful information!
> 
> I am planning on doing a similar rebuild of my tank this weekend to replace my topfin colored gravel with something more like a beaslbob build.
> 
> SharkAttack, what did you end up doing wrt soaking the peat? Did you add water after each layer or only at the end?


check out my photo albums to see my tank before and after (not much of a difference in terms of layout and stuff)


basically, i used exactly what beaslbob recommends. first a layer of peat moss (completely unfertilized, just a basic bag cost like $10 at lowes)

i did not soak it, as the aquarium was already established so there wasnt time to let it soak for a few days since i had to move my fish to a storage bing from walmart while we did this


basically, i laid down an inch, to 1.5 inches of peat moss on the bottom of the tank (i did drop a little water in it, but really, i left it dry for the most part) i cant remember who, but someone made an excellent point, if u get it too wet, the moss floats to the top, then the sand falls beneath it


ok, once i had my moss laid down, i then work about a half inch layer of play sand ($5 for 50 lbs from lowes) on top of the peat moss. i had no trouble w/ it so long as i shook it out of the cup i was using rather than just dumped it in a spot. when i shook it the sand flew out of the cup easier and didnt mess w/ the moss. whereas on my first attempt, i just dumped a little in a spot and it immediately plops right down and shoots the moss out from where it lands since the sand is so heavy. so spread it by scooping it in the cup or whatever, then shaking it out as if your spreading grass seed or something


once i had my sand on, i took my washed gravel and did the same thing w/ it as i did the sand. i put about an inch of gravel on top of it

after that, i used the plate method where you put a plate in the bottom and pour on top of the plate so the water doesnt create a hold where it lands in the gravel. and just filled it up


the peat moss was 100% soaked before i went to bed that night, w/in a few hours. 


so in conclusion, i only added water at the very end. the water finds its way down to the sand, then down to the peat moss no problem. 


one thing that has been a problem though is cloudiness. i have had very cloudy water ever since. but, im attributing that to such a huge loss of bacterial life when i completely removed all the water. 

hopefully that cloudy problem will go away soon.


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## zubanhunter (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks for the detailed summary. Should be helpful. 
From your pictures, it looked like the water was initially very clear? What sort of filter do you have? [I saw maybe a part of a biowheel filter in your bucket?]


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

ya before the overhaul my water was absolutely crystal clear. however, i had some really bad nitrate/nitrite problems....now my water is cloudy, but i have zero nitrate/nitrite problems

i have two filters in it
an emperor 400 biowheel on the left

then just a 55-60 gallon tetra or topfin filter from walmart on the right

still cant get the water to clear up


one things for sure, this forum has been huge for me. a ton of people on here know a whole friggin lot about this stuff, they help me everyday


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> ya before the overhaul my water was absolutely crystal clear. however, i had some really bad nitrate/nitrite problems....now my water is cloudy, but i have zero nitrate/nitrite problems
> 
> 
> ...


I know and isn't it fustrating?

Try killing your lights for a few days and stop adding food. Then resume with less duration lighting and less feeding.

my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> I know and isn't it fustrating?
> 
> Try killing your lights for a few days and stop adding food. Then resume with less duration lighting and less feeding.
> 
> my .02


thanks, sounds good

we drastically cut the food supply down. she was feeding them everytime she went into the room! haha. so now we're feeding them once per day


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> thanks, sounds good
> 
> we drastically cut the food supply down. she was feeding them everytime she went into the room! haha. so now we're feeding them once per day


I know I know. Don't want the little fishes to starve. *old dude

On thing that will convince you and her is if you go on a vacation for a week and just leave the tank there. I always come back to a thriving, clean tank with no fish losses. they are just happy to see me again. Guess the fish get tired of eating all that algae and stuff.

my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> I know I know. Don't want the little fishes to starve. *old dude
> 
> On thing that will convince you and her is if you go on a vacation for a week and just leave the tank there. I always come back to a thriving, clean tank with no fish losses. they are just happy to see me again. Guess the fish get tired of eating all that algae and stuff.
> 
> my .02


i also liked what you said about getting rid of the plastic plants. she fights me though until the live ones arrive! lol 


has anyone seen the prices of driftwood at aquariumplants.com?
i mean, some pieces are on sell there for $600. 
is the driftwood being sold on that site just the same junk that washes up on the side of lakes and stuff? if thats the case, shoot, i can fill up an entire yard of that stuff


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> i also liked what you said about getting rid of the plastic plants. she fights me though until the live ones arrive! lol


I know. but wait until you fill the tank with live ones, don't have to do any maintenance, and the tank "pops". after that you can recieve all the comments from everyone who sees the tank and she will enjoy telling how it works. teh only down side is she will volunteer you to setup tanks for friends and relatives.


> has anyone seen the prices of driftwood at aquariumplants.com?
> i mean, some pieces are on sell there for $600.
> is the driftwood being sold on that site just the same junk that washes up on the side of lakes and stuff? if thats the case, shoot, i can fill up an entire yard of that stuff


Get your own.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

so would the peat moss drastically lower my ph?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> so would the peat moss drastically lower my ph?


Yes it can but in my experience the effect in planted tanks is temporary and pH rises to high values in days or weeks at the most. My tank also have no mechanical circulation so have less air/gas exchange then in tanks with circulations. So what may be happening is the tank has very low carbon dioxide and high oxygen. (pH lowers as carbon dioxide increases)

The main long term effect in my tanks is that kH and gh stays constant (4 degrees and 9 degrees respectively) with peat in the substrate. But both rise to very high values with no peat moss in a years (2-4) type time frame. Which may be why I had trouble with neon tetras with no peat moss.

my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Yes it can but in my experience the effect in planted tanks is temporary and pH rises to high values in days or weeks at the most. My tank also have no mechanical circulation so have less air/gas exchange then in tanks with circulations. So what may be happening is the tank has very low carbon dioxide and high oxygen. (pH lowers as carbon dioxide increases)
> 
> The main long term effect in my tanks is that kH and gh stays constant (4 degrees and 9 degrees respectively) with peat in the substrate. But both rise to very high values with no peat moss in a years (2-4) type time frame. Which may be why I had trouble with neon tetras with no peat moss.
> 
> my .02


thank for the info. very informative. ya, i noticed after adding the peat moss layer, my kh and ph started going down crazy fast. ive since done enough water changes to keep it back up a little, hopefully the peat moss's effects on my kh and ph will slow down eventually


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sharkattack said:


> thank for the info. very informative. ya, i noticed after adding the peat moss layer, my kh and ph started going down crazy fast. ive since done enough water changes to keep it back up a little, hopefully the peat moss's effects on my kh and ph will slow down eventually


If I remember correctly your kH was almost non existent. I would not rely on water changes as they will limit but not eliminate those changes.

And you don't have the live plants in there yet.

So get the plants in there and just let thing settle down. Once the plants star thriving both kh and pH will rise.

my .02


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> If I remember correctly your kH was almost non existent. I would not rely on water changes as they will limit but not eliminate those changes.
> 
> And you don't have the live plants in there yet.
> 
> ...


ya finally got the live plants in there from last night. ive got 3 bunches of dwarf grass, 3 bunches of giant grass, a banana plant, multiple anacharis, a sword, 3 bunches of creeping jenny's i believe the lady called them

plus i have another shipment arriving tonight from aquariumplants.com w/ much more.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Is this the gravel from the tank with the rockwool explosion? If so, don't reuse it. I don't think there's any way to get the rockwool completely separated from it, and I don't think you want any remaining rockwool threads around to poke holes in your fish. If I'm thinking of the wrong guy, ignore me completely.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

chris oe said:


> Is this the gravel from the tank with the rockwool explosion? If so, don't reuse it. I don't think there's any way to get the rockwool completely separated from it, and I don't think you want any remaining rockwool threads around to poke holes in your fish. If I'm thinking of the wrong guy, ignore me completely.


ya, i cant overhaul the aquarium again though. all we can do is let this stuff filter out. my gf is so sick of me tinkering w/ her tank, if i try to do another overhaul, she'll prob just tell me to get rid of the tank entirely. basically, ive put new filters in, and am hoping this stuff will filter out...plus, when i take my lunch breaks im going to do water changes w/out her knowing to try and get any that have settled on the gravel, lol


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Wish you luck. You never know when stuff like this is going to go wrong.


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