# new home for my siamese fighters



## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

so ive had a very bad month with my siamese fighters. all the new crowntails i had bought from a month ago have died for some mysterious reason but i think the cause could be depression. so i've determined that when i collect some newer siamese fighters, i shall place them, in the 115L tank. of course im going to put a heck of a lot of plants inside so they dont see each other. of course its inevitible that the male siamese fighters will find each other eventually but it will take time and there will be lots of hiding places. i am prepared to separate them if my plan fails but i dont knpw if i dont try. the siamese fighters will be sharing the tank with a six inch bala shark. im worried about that part but as i've kept siamese fighters with them before i dont see it being a problem though just in case they will be separated at night in the same tank. any thoughts on this?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

They are solitary fish, so they are not getting lonely. I can assure you you will end up with a blood bath regardless of how many plants are added. Especially if you toss females in. 

Instead get one and give him a wonderful home. Add plants and some hides. Heat and filtration. Even a ping pong ball or some other type of floaty toy he can bounce about. Just please do not add more than one male to a tank.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

pleased to say its been a success. the siamese fighters all had a good look at each other, flared a bit, then left each other alone to explore all the space they now have. though they seem docile i will be checking up on these siamese fighters every while and will be separated at night.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Nope never been a success. They may start out well for a week, or even a month or so but it always ends in dead fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can't fight (no pun) the natural instincts.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You haven't had good luck so far,I don't the plan you have will change this.Keeping them next to each other in little spaces or even turning them all lose in a tank I think has doom written all over it.
I agree with Majerah and think you should work on keeping 1 healthy and happy.You don't need more than one pair to breed,and if the adults have short lifespans with you I can't even imagine how you would sucessfully raise multiple broods of fry(they are way more demanding).If you can't house 5 to survive how are you going to sucessfully raise 100+?They do need to seperated at a young age to survive.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

firstly and foremostly, coralbandit, my siamese fighters have spawned 15 times up til now, 4 different pairs and etc. i HAVE successfully raised the fry. you and a few other people may not like the idea of all males in one tank but believe me when i say, having 115L to roam is a lot better than being cooped up in little spaces. I've kept an eye on them and i havent allowed them to fight. Secondly, i have 7 fish tanks the majority of them being large. if it gets out of hand they can each go into their own tank simple as that.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

and tell me this, which option would you choose? exploring a hell of a lot of space and checking out plants, or lying on your side just breathing cause you have nothing else to do? im doing whats best for my fish. i appreciate thw warnings about this, but i dont appreciate being told im a failure at breeding a fish i have already successfully bred.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

115 litres is not enough for so many males, even if it is planted. They too will eventually get bored of their surroundings and will end up fighting. You move them every night? This will only add to the stress. In short, it would be better off for them to be moved to the other tanks than to continue letting them stay with each other.


Also one day is not enough to count this as a success.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

My bad!I apologize if you have been sucessful.I have only seen numerous threads on problems ,disease and deaths.
I still think keeping them together is a recipe for disaster,but good luck eitherway.


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> and tell me this, which option would you choose? exploring a hell of a lot of space and checking out plants, or lying on your side just breathing cause you have nothing else to do? im doing whats best for my fish. i appreciate thw warnings about this.



First off I do not believe you appreciate the warnings about what you are doing because what you are doing is not what is best for your fish. If taken care of properly, the fish will not be "laying on its side just breathing cause it has nothing else to do", it will be active and showing off the personality that is it's own. If your fish when kept alone are laying around on their sides - then something is wrong with the fish or how they are being kept. Bettas do not get depressed without other fish and prefer to be solitary. Bettas can get bored but there are plenty of ways to interact with them to combat this issue and none of those involve adding other fish to the tank with them. 

How do you separate them at night? If I remember correctly you are the person that was keeping his bettas in those small stick on the tank cubes with one loose in the main tank. That could be one of the reasons your bettas have not done well and how you have the tank set up now is no better. Even if you some how do not have or see fighting between the males, they will stress each other out just like they do in that stick on tank cubes thing. 

Oh and one last thing, your bala shark needs a MUCH bigger tank so I suggest you move it as soon as possible.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

There is a big difference between a fish haver and a fish keeper


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

update: two siamese fighters, a blue crowntail and a red and purple halfmoon cross double tail siamese fighter have both dramatically improved. they've both gone from sitting at the bottom to being the fish they were when i first got them. and chipmunk, seeing as you and susankat havent seen ANY of my fish tanks or how they set up or what other fish ive kept and currently keep and how i look after them rather just shoosh okay? i really could give less of damn about what YOU have to say about my siamese fighters which are doing better than they were previously. and no, im not stupid enough to put the really aggressive siamese fighters all in the same tank. i did it yesterday, sure, but have since separated them.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I don't have to see your tanks to see what kind of fish haver you are, and apparently you are stupid enough to do it as like you said you did it yesterday.


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> update: two siamese fighters, a blue crowntail and a red and purple halfmoon cross double tail siamese fighter have both dramatically improved. they've both gone from sitting at the bottom to being the fish they were when i first got them. and chipmunk, seeing as you and susankat havent seen ANY of my fish tanks or how they set up or what other fish ive kept and currently keep and how i look after them rather just shoosh okay? i really could give less of damn about what YOU have to say about my siamese fighters which are doing better than they were previously. and no, im not stupid enough to put the really aggressive siamese fighters all in the same tank. i did it yesterday, sure, but have since separated them.




It doesn't matter to me what other fish you have kept or currently keep as all I need to know about how you take care of your fish can be found on this thread. I have read your other threads and it seems like you have plenty of issues that deal with how you keep your bettas and I have yet to see you post a successful spawn of your bettas. If you are so confident with your setups why don't you post pics so that we can see. And I remember commenting on a thread of yours where you described the setup you currently had for your males which was the divided internal cubes where you kept 5 or 6 males in and let one out and switched them out every week or so. It doesn't matter whether your males are really aggressive or not, they will either stress each other out or fight. There is no other way this will turn out long term. Sorry it has been tried before by many other people in bigger tanks and less males than what you have now. Since bettas are the main fish I keep/breed and in reality are the only fish I care much for, people who do not keep them in the correct fashion -- will hear from me about it. So if you don't want to hear my opinion on how you are keeping your bettas, then fix how you treat/keep them. 
Oh and one more thing, the fact that you continually refer to them as fighters is disturbing and makes one wonder about how you see them.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

susankat, im not a fish "haver" if that's even a word. you apparently dont have to see the tanks or the set up to make your assumptions. of course you dont. you're so confident about your incorrect assumptions about my siamese fighters its actually funny. didnt somebody EVER tell you not to make assumptions?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Didn't anyone ever teach you not to keep males together. Been keeping fish for more than 30 years and I know big mistakes when I see them. A fish keeper, will keep fish according to their needs, a fish haver (you) is only thinking about themselves and not the fish.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

If you don't want to learn to take care of the fish the right way, you really don't need to post on this forum. I have read all your posts and don't need to see the tanks to see that you are keeping Betta's that is wrong and un-natural.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I just want to point out, you need to look after the long term well being of the fish. Like I said even if it was fine last night and today does not mean it will stay that way. The reason no one is on the bottom is, if they show weakness they will be bullied. I have seen this so very many times. Many people have tried, thinking they would be the lucky ones, but it always ends the same way, death and destruction. Your asking for a war in your tank, plain and simple.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

firstly, if i was thinking about myself, i would NEVER have gotten up in the middle of the night nearly every night to check my siamese fighters. if i was thinking about myself i would have left those siamese fighters in those small compartments and not bother to clean them out or try something different by putting them in a different tank. if i was thinking about myself i wouldnt have separated those fish and i'd have left them kill each other. if i was thinking about myself i wouldnt spend so much money or put so much effort or any effort at all into giving these siamese fighters a decent home so you have NO ****ing right to call me some illiterate word which doesnt even exist. you can have 100 years of experience for all i care, but that still doesnt give you a right to make assumptions and insult my passion.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I can make all the assumptions that I want. I have seen your pics and I have read all your posts, 99% of those posts are of problems you are having.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

and one more thing, would a fish "haver" even move a siamese fighter to a bigger tank from a small compartment even if it means sharing it with another male? i dont think so. would a fish "haver" even bother to take over a 100+ pics of their siamese fighters and post it on their facebook accounts or pc or where ever? would a fish "haver" even check their fish every ten minutes? i dont think so. call me a fish "haver" when its justified, not when an attempt is being made to improve their lives.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

LOL. give me a few more years of you keeping fish and are healthy and I might consider you to be a fish keeper.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

and you call me stupid? 99% of assumptions made are incorrect. and you havent seen all the photo's i've taken. only the ones i've posted on here. there's a difference. i dont see why i should have to or even need to post photos of my siamese fighters spawning. i can, but why should i? why should i have to prove it to 2 judgmental human beings who happen to be hypocrites as well?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

This is the main reason for having so many jump in on this against you, because you refer to them as fighters - fish specifically bred for fighting and have all these males in a tank together. This screams that your out for a blood sport to so very many people. That is never in the best interest of the fish. Even if you think what you are doing is a kind gesture for them, you are not. It does also stand that many of your posts here are indeed for issues with your bettas, so yeah people who have been around for some time will remember.


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> firstly, if i was thinking about myself, i would If you NEVER have gotten up in the middle of the night nearly every night to check my siamese fighters. if i was thinking about myself i would have left those siamese fighters in those small compartments and not bother to clean them out or try something different by putting them in a different tank. if i was thinking about myself i wouldnt have separated those fish and i'd have left them kill each other. if i was thinking about myself i wouldnt spend so much money or put so much effort or any effort at all into giving these siamese fighters a decent home so you have NO ****ing right to call me some illiterate word which doesnt even exist. you can have 100 years of experience for all i care, but that still doesnt give you a right to make assumptions and insult my passion.




If you were thinking about the fish, you would have done research and listened to other members that know how to keep bettas and done the correct thing by keeping your males in better conditions. If you were thinking about the fish, you would have never kept them in those small compartments after you learned that they were not appropriate. If you were thinking about the fish, you should have stopped spending money on new ones and figured out how to keep the ones you had alive and well. You have not put that much effort into giving your bettas a decent home, you have progressively gotten worse and worse with the direction you are going in housing your bettas. No body is making assumptions, as you have told us how you are housing the bettas. Every thread you post is about something that is not going right with one or multiple of your bettas and you are given advice on how to correct the issue and yet you continually refuse to change how you keep them so to me that is outright neglect instead being cared for. You could have easily divided that 30 gallon safely instead of keeping them in the compartments or letting them loose to kill or stress each other out but no you don't even contemplate that option. 
So yes, you are in fact thinking about yourself with everything you do. I have kept bettas of all forms and species and even when I first started out, I was not stupid enough to put multiple males together in the same undivided tank and expect them not to kill each other. It may work for a little while but long term, you are looking at dead fish one way or the other.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

susan, you've proven yourself to be more stupid than what i am. i really dont have to prove anything to the likes of you. the best part of this, im still young and have time to better the lives of my siamese fighters,


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

a fish keeper wouldn't have tried to house bettas in those stick on boxes(they're for kids who don't know better).Can't see where you have learned more than the kids since you refuse to listen to anyones advice and only argue that you know best and are doing better.
Take a picture of the bettas you have now,post it and then show us that fish in 1 year(they're supposed to live longer),but I think even that will be considered "improvement".
I've never seen 1 positive post or pic from you so your sucess does come as a suprise,would love(I think) to see they fry/juvi and their accomodations.
Being a "keeper" has nothing to do with how many fish or tanks you have,it's about how long they last.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

tell me this chipmunk, how does one gain experience or learn from their mistakes if they dont try it? yes i didnt listen to the other members or more specially i didnt follow their advice. BUT i've been able to see for myself what it does to siamese fighters, i've now learned from that. Whats your next excuse?


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> and you call me stupid? 99% of assumptions made are incorrect. and you havent seen all the photo's i've taken. only the ones i've posted on here. there's a difference. i dont see why i should have to or even need to post photos of my siamese fighters spawning. i can, but why should i? why should i have to prove it to 2 judgmental human beings who happen to be hypocrites as well?



Why should you need or have to post the pics of your fish spawning? You don't but don't tell any of us not to make assumptions about your setups or your success with spawning if you are ready to back them up with proof that we can see for ourselves. And if by chance you are referring to me as one of those "2 judgemental human beings who happen to be hypocrites as well", you better learn what you are talking about before you paint me with that brush. Seems like you are the one having bad assumptions and should look at who you call a hypocrite. I suggest a mirror.

By the way, spawning is not a true success unless you have raised the fry to a "sellable" age so while you might have gotten the pair to lay eggs and care for them in the nest -- that doesn't mean you were successful with raising of the fry.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

No I am not stupid and really I don't care what you think. I know how to keep fish healthy and live a long time. As with many people here. All your doing now is making yourself look more stupid in the way you are trying to defend yourself in the way you are doing wrong. 

Yes you are a kid, that really don't want to learn how to do it right. You want it done your way and no other way whether its wrong or not, you don't care.

And if you want to keep bad mouthing people it will be very easy to see you go with no loss to this forum. This forum is for people who want to learn, not those that want to show off how bad they are doing.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I just can't believe you refuse to hear anything SUCESSFUL KEEPERS have to say!It seems such a shame and if I'm not far off ,I may get the last word on my fifth or sixth post before it is locked and closed!Nothing you have to say is informational or enlightening.YOU ARE GOING ABOUT THIS ALL WRONG!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

sharkettelaw said:


> susan, you've proven yourself to be more stupid than what i am. i really dont have to prove anything to the likes of you. the best part of this, im still young and have time to better the lives of my siamese fighters,


I doubt it. You will probably flush more fish from death than what I keep. Even though your young I doubt if you can get a betta to live to its full potential which I have seen many last 5 to 6 years.


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> tell me this chipmunk, how does one gain experience or learn from their mistakes if they dont try it? yes i didnt listen to the other members or more specially i didnt follow their advice. BUT i've been able to see for myself what it does to siamese fighters, i've now learned from that. Whats your next excuse?



One gains experience by doing research and of course learning from their mistakes. You are NOT learning from your mistakes and you are not taking advice that YOU ASK FOR. If you have it all figured out why come and ask for help that you ignore? I started out keeping my bettas in the 1 gallon bowl but learned quickly from talking to people who know what they are talking about and now keep mine in much better accommodations. Can you say the same? I would say not. 

You can say mean things to me and Susan all day long but you are the one who needs to get their head of their *** and learn how to truely care for the fish you say you have such a passion for. If you really had a passion for these fish it would show in how you care for them. I know of many kids who have more sense and caring for their fish than you do. Fishkeeping does not matter about your age but how well you learn to keep the lives you have decided to keep. And you...are not a good fish keeper.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

You need to heed the advice your being given, plain and simple. Arguing back and forth calling people names is just showing us that your are more bragging about what you were planning to do and not listen to others. I have posted on almost if not every thread you have made, so you know where I stand on this stuff.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I almost feel like taking my apology back!
Without pictures of sucess you are SPAM/smoke and mirrors.
I personally have a hard time believing you now(which I'm sure is greatly disturbing to you),but your attitude and defiance is not that of anyone who has had sucess(possibly humble),but more of an angry child who no matter how much crying still has not got their way.The fish don't care what you want IF YOU DON'T CARE WHAT THEY WANT!


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

chipmunk, you want the proof of my siamese fighters ever spawning, go look at the pic i just uploaded in gallery. that was my first pair which spawned 3 or 4 times. reason why they not alive right now is because insecticide was sprayed and i wasnt around to cover my tanks in time.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

there's some vids on youtube. or there should be. at least 2. one should be of my siamese fighter crowntail pair and the other should be the veiltail. i'll upload some more pics now


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## chipmunk1210 (Jul 3, 2012)

sharkettelaw said:


> there's some vids on youtube. or there should be. at least 2. one should be of my siamese fighter crowntail pair and the other should be the veiltail. i'll upload some more pics now


So where are the pics of the fry you raised? Did any of them survive? If not, then you were not successful. Like I mentioned before, you might have gotten the pair to "spawn" and got some eggs or a nest but unless you were able to get some fry to the 3 or 4 month mark then it doesn't really matter.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Agreed. The fish will breed from instinct, and the male will also raise them to free swimming. The real work begins once you pull him as you have to give them the best care if you plan to raise some great healthy fish. Thats one of the main reasons breeders say feed the pair and condition them well. Not only will it help them when they spawn to have the strength to recoup but health fish give healthy milt/ eggs which in turn give healthy fry.


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

three fry survived, but i wasnt able to take any pics cause they were too small, at six months i gave them away to a friend. but they were males and the same colour as their father (purple body and red fins) with navy blue outlining the fins which was the mother's colour.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

here's my fry


They're German Blue Rams.a little harder to raise ,but nothing personal as any breeding and sucessful raising is an achievement.
I showed you mine,show me yours!
My fry are 2-3 months old in a 55g


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

look, im sorry for being so insulting and mean. and i know it seems like im not a good fish keeper but that really isnt the case. what ive done with my siamese fighters obviously wasnt the best but i really am trying to make it better for them, and the rest of my fish as well because honestly they're the one thing that really makes me happy. again, im sorry for being so rude


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

i never took pics of my fry though i wish i had. but now that im going to put my male siamese fighters in their own tanks, and finish conditioning i'll take some pics of the new spawn, nest and the hatchlings as they grow. i've got two tanks set aside, one for the spawning, the other for raising fry inside but i think i might have a pic of my first spawn with the father collecting fry and putting them in the nest, i'll upload it quick


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## sharkettelaw (Aug 30, 2011)

i've uploaded a pic of my male siamese fighter, the pic shows him tending his nest, and his fins were ragged because the female was a fin nipper. there was about 100 fry..lol there were so many i just couldnt count them


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