# fish are dying



## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

cant figure out why my fish are dying all my values are good 0 ammonia 0.5 nitrates 0 nitrites ,, I change my water once a week at least 70 to 80 percent,,,, my ph is rather high though I haven't checked that in forever so not sure what it was before lets just say its through the roof its over 7.6 its dark blue ,,does anyone have any idea how I can get it lower and why it might be so high ,,,the tank has been established for 2 years its 55 gallon community tank guppies mollies dojo loaches neons zebra danios 2 aqua clear 70 filters ,,it is however a bit over populated so any answers would be appreciated ,, thanks guys


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

With that load having only a .5 nitrate reading is trouble, did you change filter media recently? or clean with tap water? red gills on the fish (possible chlorine poisoning)?


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

nope nothing of the above I always clean my filter media in the tank water and haven't changed filter media ,,,they swim around I don't see anything off ,,, they eat,, I haven't added any fish in forever ,,, im really not sure whats going on,,,, it is a heavily planted tank with drift wood but that's been there forever too ,,,,, its notlike I did something that I haven't done for years that's why im so puzzled


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Who died and how long did you have them?


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

I think I figured it out what is killing my fish I was going to change the water in my fish tank and my gravel vacuum has black greyish mold in it,,, in the tubes and i bet the last time I changed my water it was already in there so im thinking its the mold somehow got into the water the fish almost look drunk for lack of better verbage to explain it so now I have to wait for pets mart to open to get another gravel vacuum so I can change the water ,,, oh man this is goingto be bad ,,,any suggestions on how to clean my filters with out killing my bacteria colony??


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

coral bandit my zebra danios and female guppies and also my neons are dying in droves but my loaches and male guppies seem to be fine also my mollies are ok too ,, so I don't know but I think its what I did that is killing them with my moldy gravel vacuum ,,,,any idea how to clean my filters without having to start all over ??


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not convinced mold will kill fish.The danios prefer cooler water,the neons prefer softer water,and the female guppies could just be getting overpowered by the males.(these things aren't killing your fish,but could be stressing them.)
I don't think that any of these preferences are "the reason" for fish dieing,but worth mentioning.
If you think you need to reaally clean the filters I would think you could do one at a time 2 weeks apart.
Without any symptoms I would be looking hard at columnaris as it will thrive in a healthy tank and preys on older ,stressed fish(this sounds more like what may be going on to me).I lost swordtails 1 or 2 a week for a month before I figured out what wass going on.I saw no symptoms during the whole time,just finally eliminated every other option?Columnaris seems to the latest thing for so many keepers!I have never seen so many cases of it in years of keeping.It's like the flu for fish or something now?


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

where would that come from and how do I treat it ???


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish Columnaris | Fungus & Saprolegnia | Treatment & Prevention
This is the most informational link I have found to date(besides scientific reports on wild fish).
Many treatment options are listed along with info I shared on how this disease can thrive in healthy tanks.Often many think a tank has to be in "sad shape" to get an issue(which is what took me forever to figure out what was going on with my swords).
Link is a little long winded BUT DEFINATELY WORTH READING AND UNDERSTANDING.


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

i just looked up columnaris i don't show any of the symptoms no white growth , no nothing,,, unless its the internal kind that displays no outward symptoms!! ok,, so its a bacterial infection and it says to treat food for internal infection by soaking it in terramycin ,, put salt in the tank for better gill function ,,, can i put salt in with my dojo loaches which by the way seem to be fine and wont the antibiotics kill my bacterial colony ??


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

My fish never showed any outward symptoms either.My swords are breeding stock so I was/am all against antibiotics.Besides the effects of them they are ;costly,take a long time to be effective and just may not be effective(they really seem hit or miss).
There are several good threads on columnaris on this site.I treated my swords with potassium permanagate.It is a serious product that deserves as much research before use as anything else.The link I listed recommends a PP bath and antibiotics in combination(the bath is seperate from main tank).


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I at first thought my swords had fish TB which is uncurable and also often doesn't give clear symptoms.I'm pretty confident my swords had/have columnaris.I have always done proper weekly waterchanges of 50%+ and been mindful of my fish.I spend alot of time looking at /taking care of them.It was in my own link where I read that the columnaris cvan thrive in healthy tanks and often "prey" on older stressed fish.My swords are in the 2-4+ year old range and have had no new fish added to tank in years!


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

i am so confused ,, lol ,, so i need to get some methylene blue and furan two or kanamycin im not sure i want to mess with the other stuff its sounds dangerous to me
im going to go ahead and treat the whole tank instead of dipping them i don't see any fish with outward signs no ulcers no cottony growth nothing and im goingto use salt ,,, should i change the water first and vacuum gravel real well or would that be a futile effort ,,??? my regular water change day is Thursday ,, and by the way the article on columnaris was quite a big mouthful and a little hard to understand for regular mortals ,,lol,, but i will try what it said and see what happens also what it said about culling the weak fish is probably not a bad thing since my tank is a bit on the over populated side anyway so we will see i will keep you posted on my dilemma and thanks coral_bandit you have always been a good source of right on the money advice


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Nobody sets out to kill fish but like the article said I also euthanised any fish that looked weak in way shape or form.When you are stocked to capacity or have "rare" or expensive fish ,or even really care for the whole more than the individual then hard choices have to be made.Owning a very large tank(my 180g),I have for a long time "removed" any fish that looked ill before risking my whole tank.I have treated my 180 with ich meds in the past but that is it!I drw the line myself as all should.I can't say your fish have columnaris(I really don't have a clue),but this seems to something getting bigger everyday in our hobby.
Good luck and ask or tell if any symptoms show up.My swords only showed who was going to die next,and on that note for the most part columnaris is one of the few diseases that can kill VERY QUICKLY.Another reason I ran with it.


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

it looks like the pics of columnaris I have seen on the web site you referred me to im really kinda sad too because i found one of my dojo loaches dead my almost seven inch female ,, well such is life I guess and probably 5 more death in the tank on top of the ones that looked like hell which I took out too I have one other female golden dojo loach who is almost6 inches long who doesn't look so hot she has stuff all over her body and her eye has a white film over it ,, I know I should get rid of her butcant bring myself to do it ,, do they recover from this once they are that far gone ??


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow big time bummer!When diagnosing disease type issues I usaully hope I am wrong.I would go right to strong salt baths(read up on them).I would change water as the issue is in the water(your water isn't bad,but still has the bacteria in it).Then go right to antibiotics if you can afford them.Both gram negative and posaitive is best bet(maracyn 1 and 2 are good examples).
Since there are 4 types of known columnaris(kind of wonder if we the fish keepers are generating a fifth super type?) I feel hitting it with meds as hard as possible right away is the only approach.I see no use in a QT as I think the tank and filter are effected(infected) also.The antibiotics will mess up your bacteria so watch your nutrient levels and change water and redose meds as necessary.
Sorry about your fish.


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

I changed water put salt in and I put the methylene blue in I did get some metronidazole I also ordered the furan two but not sure if I can put the metronidazole and the methylene blue together ,I couldn't find anything online about it ,, or should I just get the fish out and give them an antibiotic bath,, I also left all my plants out and just put the drift wood back in so I can find the dead ones easier,, this is a total nightmare


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Aquarium Medications Part 2 | Antibiotic & Antimicrobial Treatments
Go to the metro section.It is safe to mix with the furan and MB,BUT is a gram positive antibiotic which doesn't have columnaris listed as what it is good for.I know I recommended both gram - and + but both need to used at same time.Just one or the other won't be efficient IMO.


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

I can use both together ,, that's a handy page with all the meds on there pretty cool
I ordered kanamycin and furan two since it said on the page you can use both together ,,,also after I am done with the methylene blue and after a water change depending on if I have any fish left,,, I had some gel food and mixed some of the antibiotics in with it to feed them so we will see what happens cant get any worse im thinking


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

I just had a very similar situation. Coralbandit was right all along, and suggested I treat right away. I had Potassium Permaganate in hand and got cold feet about using it after I talked with the guy at the LFS. I should have just followed Coralbandit's instructions and probably would have saved a few fish. Instead, I threw a bunch of meds at it to no avail. I got fed up and set up a hospital tank, put my remaining fish in it and began Kanamycin/Furan 2 treatment. The fish are back to healthy and I didn't lose a single fish once I started treatment. I tore down my display tank, threw out all the gravel and fake plants and bleached everything. I may have gone overboard with that last part, but wanted to redo that tank with real plants. 
I saw no outward symptoms in my fish besides behavior at first (lethargic, they would stop eating 2 days before they died, listlessness and heavily ghasping), but then I found a dead loach with some big red spots and red inside his gills. Long story short, Coralbandit knows his stuff, and following his advice as soon as possible will save you a lot of anguish and frustration. At least that was what my recent experience proved to me. Good luck!


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

well I lost one more big loach and one neon tetra,, the loach and the tetra looked pretty poorly yesterday though so I really did not expect them to make it through the night but the other fish look fine and are eating I tore my tank apart yesterday and left everything out dosed with methylene blue and antibiotics and also salt which seems to be working im also putting antibiotics in their food but am waiting for my furan two and and kanamycin to ship from amazon meanwhile im putting in some other antibiotic which seems to be working ok I figured something is better than nothing ,, so how long do I have to treat them before I know its gone ???also I think its weird how it affects some fish but not others ,, but I did find my 2 otos who I thought long gone lol haven't seen them in about 8 month ,, kinda weird not to see hide nor hair of them for so so long and I do tear my tank apart about every 3 month for a good cleaning ,,anyway I probably lost about half of my fish before I knew what was going on I really did not see anything off until about 3-4 days ago and by then it was too late ,,well like I said the remaining fish look ok and are eating hopefully I can save them ,, if not ,, I think im done for a while with fish keeping


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Iwould treat for 7-10 days or as long as meds allow you to.
In the real scientific papers about columnaris in catfish on fish farms it can last years!It seems to have the ability to go "dormant" while fish are healthy and re appear when stress or other conditions favor it.
I'm not sure if you read or anyone mentioned but this disease also likes higher temps so lowering your tank to low 70's is advised.
Just because of so much reading on this disease I can't myself feel confident that it is not still present in my swordtail tank even though I have had no further issues.This disease seems to be getting more "common" and stronger among keepers.Even ones with good maintenance habbits.
I hope you whip it and get to go back to enjoying your fish but I do share in your frustration,and sometimes wonder how do we know if we won?


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

so here is the update lost one more neon tetra but my golden dojo loaches have some necropsis on their tales and backs and are not eating really well and those little guys being sick just breaks my heart my all time favourite fish ,, I read you can put hydrogen peroxide on the sores and was wondering what your guys opinion is on that,, I really want to save my loaches ,,,it has not affected my mollies or my platies at all they look great ,, my loaches seem to b the worse


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

H2O2 on an open wound is not recommended I believe.It could probly be helpful in a bath/dip.It is like PP in that it is a strong oxidiser,although they are different(H2O2 neutralises PP).I would read up on H2O2 dips and try that method.


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## starrysparkle (Aug 4, 2013)

week end went fine no more dead fish been treating with methylene blue and furan two which I got on Friday they seem to be fine now hopefully this thing is over and done with,,, been doing 25% water changes daily like the meds say ,,,Friday I went through the tank and got rid of every fish that had dead tissue spots on them or looked really poorly so like I said no fish death over the week end ,,,, going to be treating for the rest of the week and hopefully it will be done ,, knock on wood


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