# My gold fish are dying :(



## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

My dad had fish tanks and I never remember it being so complicated. 

I bought 7 gold fish to save them from being feeders about 2 1/2 months ago. I am down to one fish left. For a time three of the males were growing large. In the last two days I woke up to find one dead, and another not doing well. I removed them into clean water and cleaned the tank out completely. All seemed well but one of the boys was acting drunk, I put him in with the beta because it perked up one of the girls while I did a water change 4 days before. 

The tank is 3 gallons and I have an air stone and a 3 to 5 gallon filter. I think the problem is ammonia build up. They have problems when the water is cloudy but I followed all conventional wisdom with weekly water changes. I found 25 % was a joke and went to 85% water changed with the idea to clean and replace all water every 4 weeks. This does not seem to be enough. 

Back to the last male fish acting drunk, I changed out the water using distilled water (Edit: And a half gallon of SPring Water) and added the correct number of drops of Easy Balance and start Zyme. Plus in case any bleach got in form washing the tank stuff off I added some Aqua Safe. 

When we left for the store the fish was doing ok. He was getting caught in plants so I removed them all and the other fish seemed to be at his side to help. Keep him swimming. We sent a text to daughter asking if the Fish was still ok and she said yes but 30 minutes later we came home to find it dead. 

SO it seems to me when they get a bad does of bad water they are done for even with clean water. 

Today I bought one of those gold fish with big eyes because the last gold fish I have seemed lonely. So now it's just two in a 3 gallon tank. With a complete clean and new water the new fish seems funny. He's staying near the bottom. PS, the new fish is a Black Moor Goldfish. He seems intimidated by the larger gold fish and I cannot tell if the common gold fish is bullying him or what's going on. The gold fish darts away then come back to rest near the new fish. Back and forth and he seems to guide it around the tank like a sheep dog. Any insights? 

:fish-in-bowl:


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

The problem is the tank size. Three gallons is way too small of a single goldfish. Fancies need at least 30 gallons for the first and then ten for each one after. Commons need much larger. The ammonia buildup in there must be extreme. Do you have a test kit? I suggest you get the API master freshwater test kit to test your levels. You need daily 100% waterchanges until you can upgrade the tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

LOL, 7gf in a 3g tank.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Savior Of Fish said:


> My dad had fish tanks and I never remember it being so complicated.
> 
> I bought 7 gold fish to save them from being feeders about 2 1/2 months ago. I am down to one fish left. For a time three of the males were growing large. In the last two days I woke up to find one dead, and another not doing well. I removed them into clean water and cleaned the tank out completely. All seemed well but one of the boys was acting drunk, I put him in with the beta because it perked up one of the girls while I did a water change 4 days before.
> 
> ...


I really don't have anything to add to Majerah's advice other than to say thanks for reaching out and asking for help. It was kindhearted of you to attempt to "save" those feeder goldfish...I get where you're coming from...but it's simply impossible to keep 7 goldfish in a 3-gallon tank. You and the fish were doomed from the beginning. My son will occasionally buy a feeder goldfish when he finds one with unique markings, but he buys them for our outdoor pond. We have some common goldfish that are several years old. They get very large. You couldn't stuff one into a 3 gallon tank if you tried. Do you have access to a larger aquarium?


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Savior Of Fish said:


> Today I bought one of those gold fish with big eyes because the last gold fish I have seemed lonely. So now it's just two in a 3 gallon tank. With a complete clean and new water the new fish seems funny. He's staying near the bottom. PS, the new fish is a Black Moor Goldfish. He seems intimidated by the larger gold fish and I cannot tell if the common gold fish is bullying him or what's going on. The gold fish darts away then come back to rest near the new fish. Back and forth and he seems to guide it around the tank like a sheep dog. Any insights?
> 
> :fish-in-bowl:


Those fish simply do not know each other yet...they are strangers being forced to invade each others personal space. They want to swim away from each other but they're trapped. Their anxiety levels are very high which provokes both fear and aggression. Adding a new fish to an already populated tank where territories have been claimed, is more stressful on all the fish than simultaneously adding several fish to an unoccupied tank.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

It's only two fish now. And I have test strips but I really don't need to use them to see the water needs changing. 

I know someone with a pond would they be better off in the pond? What about winter in a pond? 

The two fish are getting along fine today it seems. 

7 fish did ok for some time I figured it was better then being eatin.

If I am to keep two in this tank as there is no way I can have a 30 gallon tank in my Mobile, what do i need to do to make it work? 

:fish-in-bowl:


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

A pond would be perfect! They can hibernate in there during the cold time, they are naturally cold water fishes.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

It won't work in that small of a tank.


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## Jenniferinfl (May 3, 2013)

That small of a tank is guaranteed to be lethal. I get where you're coming from, but a quick death from a predator is better than a slow death via ammonia and overcrowding. At least it's what I would choose. 

If you want to save feeder goldfish, which get quite large and live a LONG time, it wouldn't be a bad idea to save money for a pond. It's really about the only way to keep the common goldfish and provide enough space. 

To give you an idea, you may want to check out aqadvisor.com
http://www.aqadvisor.com/AquStockImage.php?N=&L=9&D=9&H=15&J=0&UV=gUS&UL=inch&F=7:201006201233:1

Even if those goldfish were only 1" fish, your still at 2015% stocking in a 5 gallon tank. 

Direct quote:
"Your tank is too small - it will require massive amount of frequent water changes each week!

Your aquarium stocking level is 2015%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. "

You would have to change 100% of the water every single day at the minimum. And it would still be lethal. 

To put it bluntly, there is no way for you to save feeder goldfish in a 3 gallon tank, all you are doing is killing them slowly. If you live in the north, an inground type pond would work. Those feeder goldfish are generally comets which exceed 10" in length. You could keep a fancy in a 30 gallon, but not a comet.


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## L.West (Apr 26, 2013)

You're certainly not the first to make this mistake. I tried to keep one fancy goldfish in a 10 gallon tank with a filter that cycled that tank 10 times an hour and still couldn't keep the water params correct - even with every other day water changes. I ended up rehoming the goldfish and went a small tropical community.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

I was doing weekly water changed of 85 % and one mid week. I am going to do them every other day till I find them a home.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You would need to do 100% at least twice a day in a tank that small


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## DarkestCloud (Mar 21, 2013)

Ditto to everyone else. Unfortunately, you aren't really doing those poor fish any good by stuffing them in a tank that small. Putting them in a pond is a great idea.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

DarkestCloud said:


> Ditto to everyone else. Unfortunately, you aren't really doing those poor fish any good by stuffing them in a tank that small. Putting them in a pond is a great idea.


 I don't have a pond and on rented land won't be getting one. I know a lady and a nurse at work with a pond but don't ponds have their own troubles? The nurse has cat fish in her ponds she wants to remove but can't catch them the other lady had fish die in her's too. 

There is a large city pond with ducks and geese and maybe large fish. Would that be ok? I think the black moor would be a sitting duck?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't turn them lose in any public or natural pond.They certainly don't belong in natural waters and can't say about public ponds(at the park....)
Take to a fish store and see if you can trade them for 1 betta.although slightly tight for a betta,it will do the best of any fish in that size tank.You will need a heater for it's correct care,but you will still get to have(keep) fish.Tropical fish/aquariums are a great hobby and I would hate to see just give up on fish.
You have a tank and filter so with the addition of a heater you could still have a fish.
You will still need to do weekly water changes but probly will be offering a betta a better life than in a bowl(another huge mistake many have made).
Good luck ,sorry about your situation.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Never release fish in a public pond unless it houses the type of fish you plan to place in there. One that large most likely would not be a good idea.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

You could probably put a free to good home ad in your local Craigslist. Plenty of folks have ponds on private property, often unseen by the public due to their location. Water features such as ponds & waterfalls are big now, too bad I can't convince my wife how really awesome they are! 

I agree with the betta idea, if there is any way you could upgrade to a 10 gallon it opens some options as far as tankmates, plants & such. Once again Craigslist is an option for finding a used 10, they're way common. Don't feel bad about larger fish in a smaller tank, it's a real common mistake, was almost the norm before the internet was a household thing. Now good info & sites such as this are just a click away, it makes things much easier!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> Never release fish in a public pond unless it houses the type of fish you plan to place in there. One that large most likely would not be a good idea.


It can also get you thrown in jail.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Savior Of Fish said:


> I don't have a pond and on rented land won't be getting one. I know a lady and a nurse at work with a pond but don't ponds have their own troubles? The nurse has cat fish in her ponds she wants to remove but can't catch them the other lady had fish die in her's too.
> 
> There is a large city pond with ducks and geese and maybe large fish. Would that be ok? I think the black moor would be a sitting duck?


Moors do fine in ponds. I'm not sure what type of catfish you are talking about, but we have moors and oranda's that have lived in a pond with bullheads for years. Your goldfish are still quite small I imagine, so not sure how they'd fair with a big catfish. If I were you at this point, I wouldn't worry about goldfish safety. Goldfish do well in ponds, even ponds with troubles...and catfish.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

If a ten gallon tank would solve the problem and I could also keep the betta in there that would work for me I can get a ten gallon but someone said I'd need a 30 gallon just for one gold fish? That would not work. 

I don't think I am understanding the ammonia build up problem here. I thought it was a result of fish bodily wastes? 

If yes I don't see how a complete water change twice a day is needed. The fish only got sick once the water was cloudy and when it had gone about 6 days.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

A 10 gal would only work for a very short term and the betta don't need to be with goldfish. If you can't give the fish what it needs its best to get rid of it, either by putting into a friends pond or taking to a fish store as a donation.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

The common goldfish will hit 20", the moor about 10", both are capable of living 20 years. Goldfish get big, requiring a big tank, that's why they're considered pond fish. No, a 10 gallon will not work for goldfish, at least not for long. You're looking at 20-30 gallons for the first goldfish, and 10 gallons per fish for any additional. Once you start hitting foot long fish territory it's a different way of calculating tank space due to the amount of swimming room needed. Generally 1.5-2x the length of the fish for the footprint of the tank front to back, 4x across the front of the tank is ballpark for larger fish. So for a 12" fish a standard 75 gallon is considered suitable, bigger fish, bigger tank.

If you'll need to do 50% water changes weekly with that stocking in a 30 gallon you'll need to do 10 times that in a 3 gallon, or 3x that in a 10 gallon. So yes, twice daily water changes in a 3 gallon would be needed, or once every 16 hours all week long if you want to divide up the week evenly.

I'd seriously reconsider the goldies unless you can get a larger tank, it will only lead to death for the fish & heartache for you.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Bettas and goldfish are not compatible. Bettas should be kept in temps of at the very least 82. Goldfish at the max of 74. Too much of a temp range for the comfort of the fish. Plus the waste issue in there and the oxygenation. Betta needs it calm, goldfish like turbulent. Goldfish, cold white waters betta warm black waters. Too different.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You really need to read about the nitrogen cycle and maybe you'll understand better why people are talking about things like water changes. You came here in hopes of saving the fish I assume? Either watch what is left die the s-l-o-w death you sentenced the rest of them to or do what has been suggested.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

FYI, clear water doesn't mean clean water. Pure ammonia looks like nice clear water, until you drink it and find out the hard way that it's not.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> You really need to read about the nitrogen cycle and maybe you'll understand better why people are talking about things like water changes. You came here in hopes of saving the fish I assume? Either watch what is left die the s-l-o-w death you sentenced the rest of them to or do what has been suggested.


 Hey hold on there a minute, this is not about what I must do it's about what I cannot do. I cannot get a bigger tank Etc. All I can do is give them away and I cannot make anyone take them either. 

For now I have a three gallon tank and the pet stores here do not take return fish. 

I have an offer on Craig's list from a gal with a ten gallon tank but people say that is no solution.

So I wait and I do my best that is not good enough but right now the water is clear.

Reading this,

Beginner FAQ: The Nitrogen Cycle

Doing another water change and while they can get too much ammonia with clear water I know that they have only had problems when the water gets cloudy.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

None of that matters. Doing daily water changes will matter, as this has been the suggestion I believe. All you need to do is follow that guidance. With such a small tank it takes like 5min. No reason why that much time can't be spent doing something that may actually keep them alive despite it all.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> None of that matters. Doing daily water changes will matter, as this has been the suggestion I believe. All you need to do is follow that guidance. With such a small tank it takes like 5min. No reason why that much time can't be spent doing something that may actually keep them alive despite it all.


 Well you may be rich but a dollar a day for water is going to hit my pocketbook hard if it goes on for any amount of time. 

I need to find the fish a new home. I could buy a bigger tank but I can't fit a 30 gallon tank and I sure could not afford to rotate the water in a tank that size.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

If you're paying a dollar for a couple gallons of tap water you're getting incredibly ripped off. Taking a shower must really dent the budget. As with any pet, there is some expense, with fish water is usually minimal as far as expenditures go.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

Tolak said:


> If you're paying a dollar for a couple gallons of tap water you're getting incredibly ripped off. Taking a shower must really dent the budget. As with any pet, there is some expense, with fish water is usually minimal as far as expenditures go.


 Well it must mean then that I am using bottled water. Distilled and one gallon of spring water.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Well if you "can't" and "can't" then maybe you can(up to you) let it go in a local pond. That's P-O-N-D not open waterway.
Better for the fish/in the fishes best interest. My sister-in-law(ex) had a 55 outside and forgot she had put a goldfish in it
when cleaning her tanks. That winter(about 2 months later) she went outside one day and found the water had a 1/4 inch
layer of ice on the top/w the tail of the goldfish sticking out of it. After she broke the ice the goldfish swam away.
I saw this...tripped everyone out...


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

Raymond S. said:


> Well if you "can't" and "can't" then maybe you can(up to you) let it go in a local pond. That's P-O-N-D not open waterway.
> Better for the fish/in the fishes best interest. My sister-in-law(ex) had a 55 outside and forgot she had put a goldfish in it
> when cleaning her tanks. That winter(about 2 months later) she went outside one day and found the water had a 1/4 inch
> layer of ice on the top/w the tail of the goldfish sticking out of it. After she broke the ice the goldfish swam away.
> I saw this...tripped everyone out...


 There are two city ponds right next to the major waterways here in Idaho WA but someone suggested I might be arrested for that? First situation I become aware of that will be better for the fish I will let them go. While some girls ten gallon tank offer from Craigs list is a step up I can't count on her to do the proper water changes so I will keep doing them till I find a more secure situation for them. 

There are a lot of ducks in those ponds however, will the ducks hunt the fish gold fish?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The ducks won't eat fish,but it is illegal to release goldfish into native waters!They are a VERY INVASIVE species and should not be placed in natural waters.They will greatly disturb the eco system as there natural predators are not present and they could easily overrun a balanced system.
Give them to a pet store!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You could euthanize them and give them the mercy of a quick death rather than a slow painful one....my preferred method is a bath of Everclear.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

Gizmo said:


> You could euthanize them and give them the mercy of a quick death rather than a slow painful one....my preferred method is a bath of Everclear.


 Why has one of the 7 gold fish not died then? I've had it three months now and it's grown triple it's size since I have taken it in.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

1 out of 7 is lousy odds.I'm sorry that none of the suggestions seem "doable" for you.
The fish doesn't need bottled or distilled water(distilled is the opposite kind of water they desire).Regular tap water will be the best for them.If your on municipal supply then you need dechlorinator,if you are well water then you don't need dechlorinator.
If you use "tap" water you don't need to be rich to change water.
It is only a matter of time,before this scenario will not work.Be it the fish lives for another year and is to big or the amount of waste it creates has grown out of your control, or it just dies from poor water quality/cramped living space.
You really are only pleasing yourself ,not the fish.
Sorry you not happy with all replies, but since they all say the same thing,you really got to think about it.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> 1 out of 7 is lousy odds.I'm sorry that none of the suggestions seem "doable" for you.
> The fish doesn't need bottled or distilled water(distilled is the opposite kind of water they desire).Regular tap water will be the best for them.If your on municipal supply then you need dechlorinator,if you are well water then you don't need dechlorinator.
> If you use "tap" water you don't need to be rich to change water.
> It is only a matter of time,before this scenario will not work.Be it the fish lives for another year and is to big or the amount of waste it creates has grown out of your control, or it just dies from poor water quality/cramped living space.
> ...



Look for you and all the other guilt trip posters on this thread. I UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION and am looking to re home them. 

You can stop with the guilt trips directed at me, they are not needed and are Childish. 

If you have suggestions for how best to care for them while I DO have them in my care they are appreciated. Anything else, negative, counter productive or guilt ridden is of no help at all here. 

Anyone wants to drive to WA state and take them off my hands and put them in your 30 gallon tank feel free to PM me and let me know when you will be here, I'll have the tank cleaned out and ready for the trip back to your tank. 

I hope this helps some of you posters here. I asked for help and advice and it seems some of you don't want to or cannot appreciate the situation as it is in reality not how you'd like it to be. Another thing is the contradictory advice here helps nothing and the advice I got from the fish stores also does not square with the advice here so,

It's pretty much no wonder things did not go well for the fish. No one is even on the same page. 

Thank you very much but I think this thread has run it's course.


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## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

So you would rather trust the employee at the pet store who only works there on weekends than the people here who have been caring for fish most of their lives? 

Yes, the fish may be alive and growing but that doesn't mean it's healthy, it's probably half the size of the tank by now...

They already gave you all the advice they could
- twice daily water changes with dechlorinated tap water
- give it to someone who can house it
- give it back to the pet shop, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't take it back and put it back in with the feeders
- or euthanize it,

I know this may sound cold of me, but we are still talking about a 0.50$ fish here right, think of the stress you're putting yourself through for the last 3 months


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

Marshall said:


> So you would rather trust the employee at the pet store who only works there on weekends than the people here who have been caring for fish most of their lives?
> 
> Yes, the fish may be alive and growing but that doesn't mean it's healthy, it's probably half the size of the tank by now...
> 
> ...




How about some logic and reason? Euthanizing them defeats the purpose of this thread. Giving them away takes the willingness of a third party. 

I can't do two water changes a day I don't have the conditioner on hand. I had let the tank go week with no water changes when I first got it and fish did not die right away so I think a water change every other day and a weekly cleaning will be ok in MY experience. 

I was told too much cleaning was bad and you want to allow the good bacteria to flourish and that advice seems to have killed the majority of them.


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## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

Cleaning the tank and cleaning the filter are two different things, 

the bacteria we want is almost all in the filter, changing out the water gets rid of the excess which the small amount of bacteria in your tiny filter simply can't convert into less harmful components like nitrates. So yes too much cleaning of the filter can be bad, but changing water will only help

The bacterial bloom which caused the cloudy water was due to having way too much ammonia (fish waste) in your water so the bacteria over developed,

Sure the fish may not die right away, but they will die after a week of swimming in their own waste, which just happened to be in the middle of your cloudy outbreak, so it only seemed like that's what caused their death, but it was in all likely ness due to too much ammonia.

An easy way to see this is if your fish is constantly gasping for air at the surface and has red around the gills, sort of like a burn

Goldfish just happen to be some of the biggest waste factories along with plecos.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Savior Of Fish said:


> Look for you and all the other guilt trip posters on this thread. I UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION and am looking to re home them.
> 
> You can stop with the guilt trips directed at me, they are not needed and are Childish.
> 
> ...


The advice given to you hasn't been to put you through a guilt trip, but your giving all kinds of excuses as to why you can't follow the advice given to you. If you don't want to listen to advice or take a little criticism you shouldn't even be keeping fish. 

People here give advice because they care how a fish is treated and if you don't like the advice you don't have to take it. But if you want to take advice from your fishstore from people who don't know squat on fish but will tell you anything just to sell you more stuff that you don't need. Go to them and don't ask for advice here.

The goldfish you have left might be surviving but its a long way from thriving. Best to put the fish down if you can't give it a proper home or find someone to give it one. Or just sit there and watch the fish slowly die. As it will never reach its potential size or age in what you can give him.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I give up. I think these fish would have been much better off staying in the feeder tank. At least once they died it was over quick and easy instead of slow and agonizing like they are experiencing now.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

You have to understand that there are folks here who have been doing aquatics for many years, well before your chain stores popped on the scene. We've seen situations similar to yours time & time again over the years, with varying levels of understanding, so your situation is not new, nor is your attitude towards it, or towards our advice. 

Any decent shop would not have sold you those fish with that size tank. I've got 20-30 tanks running at any given time, middle size setup from the crew I hang with. The shop you're dealing with is the sort of outfit that I would not sell to. Your situation is a symptom of the problem, the problem is the business that tells unknowing people something like that will work.

As far as guilt, personally I could care less if you fry them in butter at this point. Bon appetit!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Savior Of Fish said:


> Look for you and all the other guilt trip posters on this thread. I UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION and am looking to re home them.
> 
> You can stop with the guilt trips directed at me, they are not needed and are Childish.
> 
> ...



I do believe everyone here is on the same page, just not with what your pet store has told you. Thats common though, because they are a business and are out for money. Every so often you will find someone who tries to give good advice but more often than not, they just need to make a sale. 

I apologize you think of this as an attack but to be quite honest, I dont see how living in such a small tank could be considered less than cruel unless you are willing to do the needed maintenance. The setup should not get to the point of cloudy water before a waterchange is done. This is what irks me about betta keepers. They keep them in bowls of cold stale water and the fish barely moves. Then the owner calls them boring.... Sure they can survive, but is that really our goal? I was under the impression that this day and age people were out to help their pets thrive, to give the best possible. 

A small bottle of dechlorinator can be obtained for a few bucks. Shoot if cost is the issue Ive some spare monies, ill buy you some until you can get the fish rehomed. 

How about this, I havent seen this suggested. Go to Wal Mart or another such place. Spend a few bucks on one of the larger plastic totes, and house the goldfish there until you can rehome. That way you wont have to do daily waterchanges. Its less cruel. 

Please understand we are not out to hurt feelings, but we feel it is our responsibility to make sure when people come here, they leave with a full understanding of the situation.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

susankat said:


> The advice given to you hasn't been to put you through a guilt trip, but your giving all kinds of excuses as to why you can't follow the advice given to you. If you don't want to listen to advice or take a little criticism you shouldn't even be keeping fish.
> 
> People here give advice because they care how a fish is treated and if you don't like the advice you don't have to take it. But if you want to take advice from your fishstore from people who don't know squat on fish but will tell you anything just to sell you more stuff that you don't need. Go to them and don't ask for advice here.
> 
> The goldfish you have left might be surviving but its a long way from thriving. Best to put the fish down if you can't give it a proper home or find someone to give it one. Or just sit there and watch the fish slowly die. As it will never reach its potential size or age in what you can give him.


 Not quite. I am following the advice that I can. Some of the posters are responding in such a way they still think I have 7 fish. 2 fish per 3 gallons is a lot less pressing then 7 but I think that is lost on some. Currently the fish are fine, I have upped the water changes and will do an entire clean out every week rather then 3 to 4 weeks. As I said I was going on the advice on sites that talk about this stuff saying that you don't want to clean the tank out so as to keep good bacteria in the system. 

Yes there has been a learning curve and I think I can keep these two alive till I can find a better home but the offers to take them are not coming out of the wood work and some of the posts HAVE been hostile for no good reason. 

Like I said come to my door and they are yours but till then hostility is not helping a thing.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

majerah1 said:


> I do believe everyone here is on the same page, just not with what your pet store has told you. Thats common though, because they are a business and are out for money. Every so often you will find someone who tries to give good advice but more often than not, they just need to make a sale.
> 
> I apologize you think of this as an attack but to be quite honest, I dont see how living in such a small tank could be considered less than cruel unless you are willing to do the needed maintenance. The setup should not get to the point of cloudy water before a waterchange is done. This is what irks me about betta keepers. They keep them in bowls of cold stale water and the fish barely moves. Then the owner calls them boring.... Sure they can survive, but is that really our goal? I was under the impression that this day and age people were out to help their pets thrive, to give the best possible.
> 
> ...


 What is a larger plastic tote and how would that lessen water changes? Great advice on the water conditioner. Had I gotten this info when I was last at wal mart a few bucks could have been spent. As it is not I won't get there due to working a really messed up job till next Sat. I;ll be sure to get some then.

Can I clean the tank, add the water, then the drops then add the fish or is there a wait time? Spare time is not something I have a lot of.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

It works immediately so you can add the drops then the fish. A larger container will give you more water volume, thus lessening the need for as many chages. Grant you will still need to do them but more water will allow for a little more time to pass before the water gets full of waste. 

The containers I am talking about are the ones that you put clothes and other such things in. Storage containers.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

majerah1 said:


> It works immediately so you can add the drops then the fish. A larger container will give you more water volume, thus lessening the need for as many chages. Grant you will still need to do them but more water will allow for a little more time to pass before the water gets full of waste.
> 
> The containers I am talking about are the ones that you put clothes and other such things in. Storage containers.


 Tote is a no go. Reason I haver a three gallon in the first place is lack of space. Have cats here too.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

This thread has gone as far as it going to go. Too many excuses. I moved from a larger house to a smaller one but still able to make room for all my tanks except 2 and could have set those up if the floors were cement. 

You can set a tank on a cabinet, dresser or even on the floor. Even with cats. When I had cats I had 18 Persians at one time and still managed my tanks. 

My opinion is you really don't want the fish and don't want to give them what is needed. And yes if I lived closer I would be knocking at your door and taking them even if it was just to euthanize them to put them out of their misery. Those are basically raised as feeders and most are not that healthy and don't really stay in the fish store tanks that long. 

Next time you feel like you have to rescue a fish. Just ask yourself am I really going to put the time and money to give them what they need to survive. Then answer yourself a Big NO!


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

susankat said:


> This thread has gone as far as it going to go. Too many excuses. I moved from a larger house to a smaller one but still able to make room for all my tanks except 2 and could have set those up if the floors were cement.
> 
> You can set a tank on a cabinet, dresser or even on the floor. Even with cats. When I had cats I had 18 Persians at one time and still managed my tanks.
> 
> ...



I like having the fish but I don't have the time to dedicate taking care of them in a 3 gallon tank. I thought I was clear on that.

Here is my Craig's list add. Free Pet Gold Fish for your Tank 

I live in a mobile home packed with crap my wife brought in. When I say I don't have any room for a larger tank you need to accept it not come up with solutions having never seen the inside of my place. Every table or counter has stuff on it, 3 people living in a place we outgrew the day the other two moved in. 

Water changes, I have increased them so what more do you want from me my gawd!

If you think I should give them away to the person with a ten gallon tank just say the word but I hope you trust they will do the necessary water changes. I just did another one. 

And stop with the hyperbole, they are not suffering. Just the ones that died and I am also sure out of the seven I had the water was not the only issue.


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## Savior Of Fish (Sep 9, 2013)

majerah1 said:


> I do believe everyone here is on the same page, just not with what your pet store has told you. Thats common though, because they are a business and are out for money. Every so often you will find someone who tries to give good advice but more often than not, they just need to make a sale.
> 
> I apologize you think of this as an attack but to be quite honest, I dont see how living in such a small tank could be considered less than cruel unless you are willing to do the needed maintenance. The setup should not get to the point of cloudy water before a waterchange is done. This is what irks me about betta keepers. They keep them in bowls of cold stale water and the fish barely moves. Then the owner calls them boring.... Sure they can survive, but is that really our goal? I was under the impression that this day and age people were out to help their pets thrive, to give the best possible.
> 
> ...


 Just to clarify, when I talk about every one being or not being on the same page I am talking about any advice or info I sought on the web anywhere. 

While you all may think that a forum like this is the best place to get info it's just not where I started. So no, yer not all on the same page from my view point.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Savior Of Fish said:


> Just to clarify, when I talk about every one being or not being on the same page I am talking about any advice or info I sought on the web anywhere.
> 
> While you all may think that a forum like this is the best place to get info it's just not where I started. So no, yer not all on the same page from my view point.


Most everyone here IS on the same page;THE BEST THING FOR THE FISH!
Be it re homming,larger water changes and tank(you can not provide), or put them to sleep.All life should be considered in QUALITY NOT QUANITY!
What good is living forever if you have been sentanced to life in prison?
I am done with this one,it is a 10 cent goldfish and some poor "moore"!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

This thread is now locked.


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