# ammonia won't go down--cycle not happening



## fancyfresh

Fish have been in tank 6 weeks. 3 fatalities (2 guppies, 1 dwarf frog) in the past week. Guppy deaths indicated possible fungus or columnaris- long white string of poop, translucent white film over mouth. Other fish appear fine at the moment, have suffered mild ammonia burns and a few fin tares-clear edges due to fake plant?, but appear healthy & healing.

Stats: PH 7-7.5, 79*F via heater, KH 40, GH 120-180, 
Ammonia 8+, nitrite 0, nitrate 0----trying to get this cycle going
Buying Prime and doing an 80% change tonight with it.

20 gal hex currently housing:
7 guppies
1 rubbernose pleco (max size 4 inches per internet)
1 cory cat (seems happy not looking to get a school- didn't know multiples were recommended when purchased)
1 mystery snail
1 nerite snail
1 female betta

2 filters running-Penguin 100 and Aqueon QuietFlow AT40 internal power filter

Previously been using all API products. Quick Start, Ammolock, & Tap water conditioner. Tried seeding tank with friends filter media to no avail.

For 2 weeks, I've been doing 80% water changes every 3 days because smaller water changes weren't showing any significant improvement, I've even done some back to back changes (tap tests at 0 ammonia). I have been limiting feeding to one small feeding a day either a pinch of flakes or 1 broken up algae tablet.

I'm thinking my API tap conditioner & ammolock may be contributing to scary high ammonia readings on my liquid API test. Hoping Prime will help things stabilize and cycle.


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## chenowethpm

Is there a dead snail or something in there. With an ammonia level that high I can't believe anything could be doing well or healing. If ammonia stays like that you will not have any fish left soon. I would do as many 80-95% water changes as it takes to get the ammonia to drop to 1ppm or lower. No ammonia level is safe but 1ppm is better than any higher for the fish. With the fish in and you changing water to keep the ammonia down the cycle will take a while. Maybe 6 weeks plus. Just keep up on your water changes.


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## fancyfresh

The only critter I can't account for is a baby cherry shrimp which I figure was just as likely to have been eaten by my betta. MIA for 3 weeks. Nothing else could be dead in the tank. I do a head count at least once a day.

Ammonia after 80% water change w Prime and 25%+ gravel vac: 4.0


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## chenowethpm

fancyfresh said:


> Ammonia after 80% water change w Prime and 25%+ gravel vac: 4.0


Now that you got down to 4ppm, still a lot of ammonia to have in a tank with fish in it, if you did another water change of 75%, it should go down to 1ppm. That's what my plan would be. It's really just for the fishes health. Ammonia poisoning leads to lots of problems one being shorter lifespans.

Good luck, you're on the right track. Keep testing and changing water as needed. Remember, the percentage of water you change will be the percentage of the toxins removed.


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## big b

this may sound weird but trust me on this.even if you do a head count on every animal the snails could be dead and you not know it.if you want to make ABSOLUTE SURE they are not dead then you should take them out of the water and smell them.if they dont smell like anything then they are living,if they smell like rotten eggs then they are dead.


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## fancyfresh

the snails are mobile. There have been times they weren't where I've done smell check & they are fine. Good info. tho


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## fancyfresh

Did another 80% pwc w prime today & added Microbe Lift- stank to high heaven. Hopefully it will help with my cycle.


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## fancyfresh

ammonia currently .5 ppm


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## kalyke

Why not put some microbe lift in it? People use microbe kick start products to start up bacteria in ponds. I got a handful of pond mud and put it in my tank. I had zero ammonia, and had cycled in less than 3 days.my next tank I will use pond plant soil, with starter nitrifying bacteria in it. Cycling tanks is only difficult because everything in it is sanitized. Nitrifying bacteria are common organisms that live in regular old topsoil.


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## Big Dog

Hello and Welcome to the forum.


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## fancyfresh

Ammonia was at .5 Sunday...no feeding since...Today/Wednesday ammonia is back up to 4....trying to get cycle started...water change or no? If so how much? If I treated w prime for my 80% change are my fish still protected 3 days later to let it spike and get that good bacteria growing?


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## fishlips

After talking with Seachem, Prime is good for 48 hours, so no, not for 3 days. What dose are you using for the high ammonia? Prime binds ammonia and nitrite at 1ppm per single dose, so at 4 ppm, you'd have to use a quadruple dose. They told me that the 5x dose is safe to use and I've heard that some people use it successfully at 5x dosage. Others say it can burn fish. Have you thought about the possibility of running/growing your cycle in a separate tank using your fish's waste to feed it? If you remove their waste and put it, along with some of their water each day into a separate tank or tub with filtration, the cycle can happen in there instead of in the tank with your fish. I found that this worked very well, tho' it was a ton of work. This way you can keep your fish safe by doing daily water changes for them and get as much of their waste out of the tank and into your cycling tank or tub as possible each day. I netted it and put it into my cycling tub, rinsed my filter media into the tub and put some waste water into the cycling tub to top off evaporation - every day or even twice a day. If you want to try it, don't forget to treat the cycling tub or tank water with Prime when you first fill it. After that it isn't necessary, because you don't have fish in there, but beneficial bacteria need treated water, too, or they won't be able to grow. It still took 6-8 weeks, but I didn't lose any fish and they stayed healthy; no burning, nothing bad. The cycle will inevitably produce high toxin peaks, higher than Prime can convert, even at the 5x dosage, which is the highest that Seachem recommends. After ammonia will come nitrite and it can peak as high as 8 as well.


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## darkhymn

Have you considered a bottled bacteria product such as Dr Tim's One and Only or Tetra's Safe Start? While not very well liked by a lot of enthusiasts, others have found that they work at least sometimes. I've had mixed results myself, but Safe Start did save my fish and I a long, painful cycle. I had to use two bottles, as the first had no discernible effect, but the second did set my cycle in motion after weeks of daily water changes and zero progress.


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## chenowethpm

Have you checked your nitrite and nitrate levels? With the fish in, if you do enough water changes to keep the ammonia and nitites down to 1ppm to keep the fish safe, your tank will still cycle. It will just take a long time. Like up to six weeks or more. Patience is the key. Another thing you could do to speed up your cycle is to get some filter media from someone's established tank. Fishstores some times give pieces, or a mesh bag of gravel to add to your tank.


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## fancyfresh

Week 9 was the magic number! Ammonia 0. Nitrites 0. Nitrates 20. My tank finally cycled. I thought I'd never see the day.


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## fishlips

Congratulations! It really can take a long, long time.


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## Summer

welcome! consider coming back and posting a bit! We'd love to have you!


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