# Another cycling question...



## tulip55555 (May 7, 2011)

Does the ammonia always hit zero first? My nitrates have been low and steady for several days and are now zero. While my ammonia is still around .5. Is this normal or a sign of something gone awry? Nitrates have been consistently almost non existent-not quite the color of zero.


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

How long have you been cycling? You mention nitrAtes but not nitrItes. Are you doing fishless or with fish? If you have live plants I'll leave it to others to help you out.

Normal cycle = ammonia than nitrItes than nitrAtes. Once your tank can convert around 4ppm ammonia to nitrItes than nitrAtes in 24 hours your tank is cycled IMO.


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## tulip55555 (May 7, 2011)

I do have one moneywort plant. And I do have a few danios, cory cat and kuhli loach which I only added because I started with Nutrafin Cycle. At first I had no ammonia or nitrites for several days even after I added fish, so I thought the Cycle had done it's job. I would have never done cycling with fish. It's driving me crazy worrying about these fish.
Anyway....My ammonia is .5, nitrites are zero, and nitrates are minimal- about 2.5ppm. Last I checked yesterday all numbers were the same except nitrites were about .25. Just kinda wondering why they would hit zero, and if that means there's a problem in my cycling. Should probably mention that I did 25% water change on sunday and added some Stress Zyme.

BTW-Thanks rtbob. You have helped me on several questions...really appreciate you taking the time


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## Leopard Gecko (May 9, 2011)

If you keep testing your water and doing water changes before anything gets too high, your fish will be fine.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think you should start by reading up on the nitrogen cycle. There is no such thing as a cycle in a bottle. Your cycle didn't start until you added an ammonia source, which is your fish.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

A few questions that might help us out:

-How long has it been since you added your fish?
-When did you add the Nutrafin Cycle relative to adding the fish?
-What size tank do you have?

It sounds to me like your cycle is just getting started. If it's been less than 2 weeks since you added fish, then I'm almost certain of it. Keep tabs regularly (I recommend daily for now during the cycle) and do partial water changes as needed to keep ammonia and nitrItes well below 1 ppm. This might take a liitlw longer, but it will go easier on your fish. You will know you have stabilized your cycle when ammonia and nitrItes are zero and nitrAtes go up slowly with time. My guess is that one small live plant won't affect this much.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

Most bacteria boosters don't work. If yours worked, the nitrite/ammonia levels would be near 0 and the nitrates very high.

When cycling you'd expect to see nitrite readings after 5-10 days or so after introducing ammonia in your tank and maintaining a constant level of 1-6 ppm or so of ammonia.

Then the nitrites will rise over the course of the next few days while the ammonia you add will quickly be consumed by the bacteria. Thus 12-24 hours after adding more ammonia, the ammonia level will be near 0 and the nitrite will remain high. If you have fish and are feeding sparsely to cycle the tank, the ammonia level will be near 0 the entire time but nitrites will rise.

Then, at about the 14th-20th day or so, your nitrites will begin disappearing (often rapidly) and nitrates will sky rocket. When you can add ammonia and within 12-24 hours the ammonia and nitrite levels are 0, you can safely add fish. Or, if you have fish, when the nitrite/ammonia levels are essentially 0 and the nitrates are significantly higher than the water you originally added, you can begin adding more fish. Do a water change or two a week to get rid of the nitrates.

In your current situation, you're in the position where your fish are going to have to endure a cycle and you'll want to consistently test water and probably do a water change every day in order to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at a (relatively) safe level while waiting for the bacteria to colonize. If your levels get too high (above 1 ppm), your fish have a decent shot of dying. If your levels are too low, you might not get enough bacteria to form to handle the eventual bioload of the tank, or bacteria might take forever to form.

If you see fish acting stressed in any way, it's time to do a 40-50% water change immediately. This includes odd coloration of gills, lethargy, gasping for air at top of the tank, sitting on the bottom of the tank, clamped fins, etc.

EDIT: Don't know if you know this or not. Most tap water has nitrates in them, some in high levels. Test your tap water to see what the level of nitrates are so you know where to expect your nitrates to be before it's cycled. Once the nitrates go above this level, you know it's well on its way. Also if the nitrates surpass 40-50 ppm, it's a good idea to do a water change. 1 ppm of nitrite/ammonia is about the most fish could be expected to handle, and even at this level they are at risk.


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## tulip55555 (May 7, 2011)

PolymerTim- it has been less than 2 weeks. i'm sure the cycle is just starting, too. i used the Cycle for the first 3 days as directed. The info i got at their website led me to believe that sufficient colonies would come from the bottle  my mistake! after using it my ammonia and nitrites were zero, so i added fish about 10 days ago. i have a 40 gallon with 4 danios, 1 cory cat and 2 kuhli loach. they are all doing pretty good except the cory...he's a little sluggish.

Rohkey-extremely helpfull info! it has been about 10 days since i added the fish. i hope the nitrite drop is a good sign. i do check my levels daily and i'm doing frequent water changes. i added Stress Zyme on Sunday after a 25% water change. that is when my nitrites hit zero (think i misspoke in my first post and said my nitrates were zero) but i still have 5ppm ammonia and nitrates that i do attribute to my tap water. i will do a larger water change first thing tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed for a speedy cycle. lol! i know there is no such thing now, but i wish i knew that before i spent good money on Nutrafin. Thanks again


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

tulip55555 said:


> PolymerTim- it has been less than 2 weeks. i'm sure the cycle is just starting, too. i used the Cycle for the first 3 days as directed. The info i got at their website led me to believe that sufficient colonies would come from the bottle  my mistake! after using it my ammonia and nitrites were zero, so i added fish about 10 days ago. i have a 40 gallon with 4 danios, 1 cory cat and 2 kuhli loach. they are all doing pretty good except the cory...he's a little sluggish.
> 
> Rohkey-extremely helpfull info! it has been about 10 days since i added the fish. i hope the nitrite drop is a good sign. i do check my levels daily and i'm doing frequent water changes. i added Stress Zyme on Sunday after a 25% water change. that is when my nitrites hit zero (think i misspoke in my first post and said my nitrates were zero) but i still have 5ppm ammonia and nitrates that i do attribute to my tap water. i will do a larger water change first thing tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed for a speedy cycle. lol! i know there is no such thing now, but i wish i knew that before i spent good money on Nutrafin. Thanks again


Hah, I think when everyone starts out they get ripped off somehow. Many people on the bacteria boosters (I've read about Bio-Spira working, but only if properly refrigerated from packaging to tank application), others with a bad lot of fish, and in my case I had a "knowledgeable" employee suggest I add several plants to my tank that turned out to not be aquatic, despite being clearly labeled as such.

Also I should point out that ammonia in tap water is usually in the form of chloramine which is a bound of chlorine and ammonia. When you add your water conditioner (assuming it's a decent brand and is intended to dechlorinate), the ammonia in the tap will not be as toxic as it was before but will still show up in the ammonia tests. You would need to take this into consideration when doing the water tests (if you have .5 ppm of ammonia in your tap and 1.5 ppm of ammonia in your tank, it's as if you actually have 1 ppm of ammonia in your tank). I don't know if ammonia in this form helps cycle a tank, though...you might have to ask about that, because if it does help the tank cycle you'll be better off.


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## tulip55555 (May 7, 2011)

i actually just tested my tap water for ammonia today and it appears to have none. i do know what you mean about chloramine, though, and i do use Stress Coat to prepare the water. i also let it sit in open containers for several days...as i understand it the chlorine evaporates in about 24 hours. Thanks so much, again, for your explanation. The 24 hour "rule" will be very helpful


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

No problem, and if your conditioner de-chlorifies, as most do, you don't have to let it sit - although I still usually do for safety as well. And remember all tanks are different (obviously), the smaller the tank and the more surface area and such your filter media and other suitable places for the bacteria to grow have, the less time it will take for the ammonia/nitrites to be converted. Once it starts happening you should have a good idea and feel of how long it should take in your tank, so take the "24 hour rule" with a grain of salt and also keep in mind I'm new to aquariums as well, I just do a lot of reading/research while I wait for my own aquarium to cycle haha.


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

Rohkey said:


> I don't know if ammonia in this form helps cycle a tank, though...you might have to ask about that, because if it does help the tank cycle you'll be in much better safe.



The ammonia is converted to ammonium which is still used by the bacteria. This conversion lasts for 24 hours which in a cycled tank is plenty of time to process it.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

tulip55555 said:


> PolymerTim- it has been less than 2 weeks. i'm sure the cycle is just starting, too. i used the Cycle for the first 3 days as directed. The info i got at their website led me to believe that sufficient colonies would come from the bottle  my mistake! after using it my ammonia and nitrites were zero, so i added fish about 10 days ago. i have a 40 gallon with 4 danios, 1 cory cat and 2 kuhli loach. they are all doing pretty good except the cory...he's a little sluggish.
> 
> Rohkey-extremely helpfull info! it has been about 10 days since i added the fish. i hope the nitrite drop is a good sign. i do check my levels daily and i'm doing frequent water changes. i added Stress Zyme on Sunday after a 25% water change. that is when my nitrites hit zero (think i misspoke in my first post and said my nitrates were zero) *but i still have 5ppm ammonia* and nitrates that i do attribute to my tap water. i will do a larger water change first thing tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed for a speedy cycle. lol! i know there is no such thing now, but i wish i knew that before i spent good money on Nutrafin. Thanks again


I'm hoping that you've only got 0.5 ppm ammonia and not 5.0. If you really have 5 ppm ammonia, I would strongly recommend 50% water changes once or twice daily until you get it below 1 ppm. That's playing in a range where most fish die, some just faster than others.

Rohkey provided an excellent summary of the nitrogen cycle. Another good place for beginner reading on the topic is here:
The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

I have heard some people having success with cycle boosters, but about 90% don't get it to work. Some may be better than others, but its pretty risky unless you really know what you're doing. Unfortunately, I think a lot of those products are misleading. I don't know the instructions for Nutrafin Cycle, but I did notice on their website that the fine print says you still have to add the fish slowly over several weeks.

One clarification on the tap water chlorine, there are two common kinds. Regular chlorine will evaporate over time. Chloramine will not evaporate. If you don't know what kind of treatment your municipality uses for the tap water, then there's really no reason to risk not using water conditioner that handles both (I know you mentioned you were using Stress Coat, so your doing fine).

If you keep on top of your water changes as dictated by your chemistry checks, things should work out fine. It may take a month or two for the cycle to stabilize, but it will get there. You will know you are there when there is never a sign of ammonia and nitrites and the only reason to do water changes is when the nitrates start getting a bit high.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

IMHO I would put in more fast growing plants like the moneyworth and especially anacharis. I would also stop adding food for a week or so. The is extremely important if you are getting a nitrIte spike.

The ammonia->nitrIte->nitrate cycle is assumine none to start with and more importantly bacteria only cycle.

It does not apply in a heavily planted tank where you get no ammonia or nitrIte spikes but can get an initial very measurable nitrate spike for the first few weeks. Well sure very low short lived spikes but you get the idea.

my .02


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