# Wanting to do SW.



## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

I am planning on doing a 20Gallon long. I plan on doing about 30lbs live rock. Also putting in sand, as I read crushed coral is not a good idea. I have been told I can keep 2 clown fish and a couple of Gobys in this size tank. My main concern right now is the water changes. With such a small tank I don't see the cost of a RO/DI unit being worth it. Is it possible to take tap water let it sit for 24hours and maybe add a chemical. (I do know I would have to make the saltwater), is this way possible?


----------



## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

I would stay away from Tap Water, it is not good for Saltwater tanks, you can get RO water from any LFS they don't charge much for a 5 gallon drum, if you still don't want to use RO then use distilled water from the Super-Market is the best choice.

You could cut your Live Rock down by 10lbs, 20lbs should be fine for your tank and it will leave a bit more space for the water and fish to swin about in.

Crushed Coral I would also avoid and go for sand you can buy Live Sand and use that to cycle the tank also, my tank cycled in just over 2 weks using Live Sand.

Food can fall between the crushed coral and get stuck then rot if it's not cleaned out alough I know a few people who have crushed coral and have no probs.

Stay away from Tap-Water in your SW tank but.


----------



## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

verdifer said:


> I would stay away from Tap Water, it is not good for Saltwater tanks, you can get RO water from any LFS they don't charge much for a 5 gallon drum, if you still don't want to use RO then use distilled water from the Super-Market is the best choice.
> 
> You could cut your Live Rock down by 10lbs, 20lbs should be fine for your tank and it will leave a bit more space for the water and fish to swin about in.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything here, except that tap-water with amquell plus water conditioner is fine in my book. Just depends on how nasty your tap water is.


----------



## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

No avoid the tap water, I don't really see the point in spending a lot of money on Live Sand, Live Rock, Fish etc etc only to skimp on water, remember we are water keepers before fishkeepers.

Even is the tap water was good his tank is 20gallon so he will be doing a 2 gallon water change a week, which is about 8 litres. Here in the UK we can go to ASDA and buy Distilled water for something stupid like 17 pence for 2 liters which is about 25 cents in your American money, Im guessing you can get it for the same in the USA.

Distilled water you will be looking at about or just over a Dollar per week in cost, or you can take a chance with the tap water.


----------



## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you can get a gallon of distilled water at Walmart for pretty cheap. My LFS gives away RO water for free, you just have to bring something to put it in. I'd check around and just see what you can find. I agree with the cutting down on the rock too. If you think about it, the rock is displacing water in your system, so if there is too much rock, even though it is a 20 gal., you aren't going to have very much water. In addition, fish need the swim space.


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

J-Pond said:


> I am planning on doing a 20Gallon long. I plan on doing about 30lbs live rock. Also putting in sand, as I read crushed coral is not a good idea. I have been told I can keep 2 clown fish and a couple of Gobys in this size tank. My main concern right now is the water changes. With such a small tank I don't see the cost of a RO/DI unit being worth it. Is it possible to take tap water let it sit for 24hours and maybe add a chemical. (I do know I would have to make the saltwater), is this way possible?


better yet start the tank with macro algaes (chaeto, gracilliaria, caulerpa proflilera) to balance out and stabilize the system.

then do the rest.

tap water is fine. let is set a week and get the macros growing then add a male molly and don't add food for a week. then add the other fish and start feeding 1 flake per day.

no need for live rock with that either.


my .02


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

What else are you doing for filtration? And water flow? Even though you will have some water displacement, cured live rock and sand will be the best help with your filtration. With such a small volume of water, things can go sideways very easy and fast. And I would suggest staying away from tap water altogether. Macro algae like Bob said is never a bad idea, you just have to figure out how to incorporate it in a sump or in the tank. Another option would be a good canister filter, they work well if well taken care of. The key to this habit I mean hobby is get as much info as possible, do alot of reading and then read some more. Ask question to anything your not clear on and pick the answer that best suits you. Do yourself a favor and get test kits and learn how to use them. Welcome and I hope this helps.


----------



## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

I would like to say a couple things...

*NO TAP WATER!!!!*

Fresh water people may tell you it's okay, but for salt water it is a NO NO!!! You want your water to be 0 TDS (no trace elements) and tap water can be in the hundreds. Many of my fellow reefers including myself will not even use water with 1 or 2 TDS. Many fish stores sell RODI water for 50 cents, and if worse comes to worse you can use the water refill stations at walmart (which often aren't 0 tds but is still better than conditioned tap) If you were interested in an RODI system look at Aquarium Water | Reverse Osmosis | RODI Water | ReefKeeper Water | Products and answers for your water treatment needs... they have a mighty mite for only $100 and you can't get a better deal than that. 

Are you going to do coral?


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

csingh07 said:


> I would like to say a couple things...
> 
> *NO TAP WATER!!!!*
> 
> ...


I just looked that Mighty Mite unit up...That's not a bad unit for the money.


----------



## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

trouble93 said:


> I just looked that Mighty Mite unit up...That's not a bad unit for the money.


Yeah, it really isn't bad for the price. I have heard a LOT of good things about it too.


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

A lot of new hobbyist don't understand how important good water is. The importance of RO/DI system cannot be understated. Tap water can be used, but your aquarium is then at the mercy of whatever harmful chemicals may be in it. A good RO/DI system is not too expensive, and should be considered a necessity. Use of distilled water is not recommended(IMHO) as most distillation units use copper pipes. Copper is toxic to most invertebrates; including corals, decorative shrimp, etc. As stated above we put so much into these systems(time, money and so on) to cut corners on the very life blood of the system. I'm not trying to step on toes here but there are other hobbyist here that use tap water and plant life to balance out the tank for years, but that works where they live. My local water hits 680 on a TDS meter. So many times posters post I'm having problems with my tank, and when asked about there water source and the answer a lot of times is tap water. I believe we finish like we start out, why have to fix a problem down the line we can avoid from the start? Just my option.


----------



## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

Very well stated, and with such a gorgeous, healthy, and successful reef system, I challenge anyone to argue against anything you just said 



trouble93 said:


> A lot of new hobbyist don't understand how important good water is. The importance of RO/DI system cannot be understated. Tap water can be used, but your aquarium is then at the mercy of whatever harmful chemicals may be in it. A good RO/DI system is not too expensive, and should be considered a necessity. Use of distilled water is not recommended(IMHO) as most distillation units use copper pipes. Copper is toxic to most invertebrates; including corals, decorative shrimp, etc. As stated above we put so much into these systems(time, money and so on) to cut corners on the very life blood of the system. I'm not trying to step on toes here but there are other hobbyist here that use tap water and plant life to balance out the tank for years, but that works where they live. My local water hits 680 on a TDS meter. So many times posters post I'm having problems with my tank, and when asked about there water source and the answer a lot of times is tap water. I believe we finish like we start out, why have to fix a problem down the line we can avoid from the start? Just my option.


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

Post like this are great for this hobby of ours, because there are so many options out there. Some work and some don't and some are just kinda in the middle. Look at the market that supports this hobby. It's geared to sell sell sell. Got algae try this overnight wonder. Got low PH buy a bottle of this. High nitrates get this reactor with this media. Most are snake oils but a few do work. Good thing is we can come to a site like this and talk about them all.


----------



## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

OMG!! There is so much to actually remember. I guess my first thing is to find out where I can get the proper water. I was under the impression I could let tap-water sit for 24hrs and add somthing to cure it (for lack of a better term).
I had planned on using a HOB "Penguin400" and 2 power heads. I was told the live rock and sand would do most of the filtration.
As stated above, 
I guess the biggest thing to start with the water, and work from this point!
I have enough money to do the tank, rock, and sand right now just not for the RODI unit. I was told for such a small tank it wasn't needed.....*J/D*.....now this is how I feel.
Thank you all for your responces! I hope I don't get annoying with my questions.


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

J-Pond said:


> OMG!! There is so much to actually remember. I guess my first thing is to find out where I can get the proper water. I was under the impression I could let tap-water sit for 24hrs and add somthing to cure it (for lack of a better term).
> I had planned on using a HOB "Penguin400" and 2 power heads. I was told the live rock and sand would do most of the filtration.
> As stated above,
> I guess the biggest thing to start with the water, and work from this point!
> ...


 Check with your local fish store. Ask them how they do there water. See if they sell ro/di water or if they sell already mixed saltwater.


----------



## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

See the thing is with Tap Water you will get Phosphates, Nitrates and some more things, if you can get RO/DI water then most of the Phosphate will be gone, if you use the tap water and get Phosphate it will mean having to remove them at some point same with the Nitrates, Nitrates you will get anyway but I see no point in throwing some more in.

In freshwater you can get plants to eat away at these with SW you don't have as many options. you can get some Algae from a LFS or stick a Mangrove Tree in it.

I said before Distilled water, I should have added Distilled water should be used if you refuse to use RO water.

with SW you don't have the option of adding a nice Plec or Bristlenose to eat the Algae, we can get Snails but having kept Fresh and SW tanks I can say that my Bristlenose can do a better job than a load of snails.

Nearly all LFS sell RO water and it is 1 of the lest expensive things you will put in your tank and will be 1 of the most important, don't go spending a load of money only to fail at cheap water.

SW fish are also more delicate than Freshwater and if you plan on making it a reef tank then you are looking at everything being at 0 including Nitrates, in freshwater having Nitrates is no problem in SW Corals don't like them and if you get an Anenome you will be wanting Nitrates about 0.5 at the highest.

You can use Tap Water but if you do and it all falls apart a few months down the line you will only have yourself to blame.


----------



## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

trouble93: Thanks, I will ask next time I'm there. If they sell it this may not as bad as I thought. 
verdifer: Thank you, I do understand what you mean, and I don't want to skimp on this and have problems. I will have to look around and see what I can do.
Thank you everyone for the replys, for now I will keep reading and try to figure this out.


----------



## csingh07 (Sep 20, 2010)

J-Pond said:


> trouble93: Thanks, I will ask next time I'm there. If they sell it this may not as bad as I thought.
> verdifer: Thank you, I do understand what you mean, and I don't want to skimp on this and have problems. I will have to look around and see what I can do.
> Thank you everyone for the replys, for now I will keep reading and try to figure this out.


Bring anymore questions you may have back to the forum, we love having questions to answer


----------



## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

Alright guys it really feels like we are beating a dead horse when it comes to the tap water thing.


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

GetITCdot said:


> Alright guys it really feels like we are beating a dead horse when it comes to the tap water thing.


Well that is just the way aquarium keepers are.


Besides, Who would put a dead horse in their tanks? *pc


----------



## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

Well there is another old saying we could use here.

Better safe than sorry.


----------



## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

haha true...


----------



## trouble93 (Nov 8, 2008)

verdifer said:


> Well there is another old saying we could use here.
> 
> Better safe than sorry.


+1 I tell people all the time, you maybe saving yourself a few dollars up front but over time it's going to cost you more in the end.


----------



## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yup, I totally agree. you wouldn't want a tank with hundreds of dollars worth of fish and corals do go down the toilet just because you didn't take the extra time or money to get the right water...


----------

