# 20 Gallon Tank question



## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

Hi guys,I dont know if this is the right spot,so if its not please forgive me.I have started up a 20 gallon tank about a week ago. I went in to the store to get my water tested and the PH was high and Ammonia was high. I bought some PH down and these fizz Ammonia neutralizer tablets. I also bought this very expensive test kit from API its the master kit and here are the results: My PH was so high I had to use the PH High test those results were 7.4, Nitrate was 40,Nitrite was 5.0,and Ammonia was between .50-1.0. The sales woman (which seems very knowledgeable) told me to throw in 2x of 25ML cups of Nutrafin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement yesterday and 1X of 25ML today. Along with my PH down yesterday. She also told me not to feed my fish at least till tomorrow to help get the Cycle going again. 

So with me saying that am I doing the right thing? If not please inform me on how to bring the levels to where they need to be. I read my levels will be high since its a new tank but I dont know. I have about 8 fish in the 20 gallon tank. And there all doing great no signs of distress or anything. 

Another question I have is to help get everything in check I added another filter so I have a total of 2 filters going,The new filter is a bit larger in the back so when I put my tank back in place about .25 inches of the tank hangs of the edge, Its just the plastic edging and the glass is barely off,is this a big deal or do I need to find a way to get the rest of the tank on the surface. Thanks for all your help,I am completely new to this and dont want to harm the fish.


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## ealerp (Apr 16, 2011)

well your ph is 7.4 so I dont see that being a problem. most all freshwater fish will be fine. as for your nitrate being at 40 ppm thats slightly high and the same with your nitrite and amonia levels but its nothing to be seriously concerend about. since your tank is still going through the nitrogen cycle it should level out within a week or two. I would really consider staying away from any chemicals that alter the water parameters especially during the initial month or so. in my opinion as long as your fish are healthy Its best to let the tank cylcle naturally. as long as you do a 25 percent water change once a week your fish should be fine and your nitrate,nitrite and amonia levels will drop. hope I was able to help.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

You probably should have waited to get the fish, but now that you have them there are a few things you should most likely do. Don't buy any more fish and keep feeding to a minimum (I don't think you have to completely stop, as your ammonia isn't as bad as your nitrite). Avoid putting chemicals in that change your parameters as the above poster mentioned, you need your ammonia to be a little elevated so bacteria can multiply that will turn the ammonia into nitrite, and then bacteria will multiply that can turn these into nitrates which can be taken care of with water changes (plants can help too). While even 1-2 ppm of ammonia/nitrite can harm and kill many fish, nitrates can get well into the 100s and possibly higher before being lethal (although levels above 40-50 ppm can stress fish) with short exposure, but they shouldn't be exposed to anything over 50-100 for longer than a week or two.

I don't know for sure if 'neutralizing' ammonia still allows it to be consumed by the N bacteria, you should probably research that but I'd avoid continuing the usage of those tablets just in case.

Your aquarium having nitrites is both a good and bad thing. You don't want your nitrite levels to get any higher and probably want to significantly lower the levels as your fish are at risk. You'll want to probably do a series of 25% water changes over the next few days until nitrites stabilize at no more than 1 ppm. In an established tank ammonia/nitrite should be 0, but you'll need some nitrite to form the necessary bacteria to produce nitrate. You'll have to constantly test your tank (2-3 times a day) because you'll want your ammonia/nitrites levels to be high enough for the bacteria to colonize but low enough to not put your fish at too much risk. Be on the look out for a few things that would indicate your fish are being poisoned by ammonia/nitrite: If you see your fish gasping for air at the top of the aquarium, if their gills start turning red/blue/purple (ammonia poisoning) or brown (nitrite poisoning), if their gills are moving rapidly, if they become lethargic, lay at the bottom, or flock towards where the filters dump into the aquarium, or if they won't eat. If you see any of this do an immediate 25-50% water change and test afterward while monitoring the fish to see if they improve after a couple hours. Try to make sure that the water you add is as close to the temperature of the tank as possible. When it comes to ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; nitrites are probably the most toxic (your fish literally suffocates from inability to absorb oxygen), but ammonia isn't far behind.

The presence of nitrates indicates that either your tap (or whatever water you used for your tank) has a high level of them or the bacteria is starting to form as a result of the nitrites, which is a good thing. Test your tap water for nitrates to see what the natural level should be for your tank. Once your tank establishes itself, you'll want the nitrate level of it to match your tap water. If your tap is too high, you'll want to invest in some plants or even use bottled/filtered water. Once your nitrate levels start increasing you know bacteria is converting the nitrite and you can stop changing the water so frequently (at this point probably 2 20% changes a week will be sufficient).

a pH of 7.4 isn't that bad at all and should be safe for most fish. Most tropical fish can adjust to the pH levels of our tap water as they have been bred and kept in this their entire lives in most cases.

Lastly, I personally wouldn't have any portion of my tank hanging off, but 1/4 of an inch shouldn't be a big deal. There is a potential for the increased stress/pressure to cause cracking and leaking in the long term, however with a 20G and such a small part of the tank, I wouldn't worry too much.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I would stay clear of bacteria boosters and such as well. They rarely work. Bio-spira was the only I have read about that people say worked, and only if it was properly refrigerated and never allowed to get to room temperature. Bio-spira was bought out and the company claims they found a way to make it unnecessary to keep the product refrigerated but I wouldn't trust it. In all likelihood all you're doing is throwing dead bacteria into the tank which could cloud it up.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Geez...stop adding all the chemicals before you kill everything. I know you're only going by the advice you've gotten, but really that stuff isn't needed. My ph is 8.2 out of my tap and I kept my fish in that with no problem for months before having what it is now - injected CO2 will lower it. Most fish will adjust to the ph they are placed in, minus a few that are less tolerant of very specific parameters.

How many fish are in this tank and what type? I may have missed that if you posted it. If your nitrites are that high you need to do a 50% water change ASAP. And from now until the cycle has finished do water changes when the values of ammonia or ntrites are above 1. This is what you have to do to save your fish - forget what you may have heard about keeping the cycle going etc, it will go forward regardless. You do the water changes to save your fish, otherwise with reading like you currently have you won't have to worry about their safety for long.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Geez...stop adding all the chemicals before you kill everything. I know you're only going by the advice you've gotten, but really that stuff isn't needed. My ph is 8.2 out of my tap and I kept my fish in that with no problem for months before having what it is now - injected CO2 will lower it. Most fish will adjust to the ph they are placed in, minus a few that are less tolerant of very specific parameters.
> 
> How many fish are in this tank and what type? I may have missed that if you posted it. If your nitrites are that high you need to do a 50% water change ASAP. And from now until the cycle has finished do water changes when the values of ammonia or ntrites are above 1. This is what you have to do to save your fish - forget what you may have heard about keeping the cycle going etc, it will go forward regardless. You do the water changes to save your fish, otherwise with reading like you currently have you won't have to worry about their safety for long.


I have about 8 fish,As I read I now know I added way to much fish for starting up a new tank,she just kept telling me it was fine,She had me to the set up where I put the biological germ cultures in for 3 days. I really have no idea. I just bought a brand new bottle,should I return it? It was 25 dollars so I wouldn't cry if I did. lol I called the pet store and they advised me not to change the water because I will be taking out the germs and messing up the cycle. But I will go with what you guys say since you have been doing this,Also I do have some around 8 or so plants in there so the fish have a place to hide. Is that to many? Thanks for all your help


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If it cost that much, I'd return it. Live plants? They are right to some extent about the cycle, but I think more correctly it just stalls it a little. I belive it may be a difference of a few days if that when all said and done. Just do the water changes if they get above one, otherwise let it ride and track it.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> If it cost that much, I'd return it. Live plants? They are right to some extent about the cycle, but I think more correctly it just stalls it a little. I belive it may be a difference of a few days if that when all said and done. Just do the water changes if they get above one, otherwise let it ride and track it.


Yea there live plants. I have also read that the levels should be high since it is a new tank. Is this true? 

And just so I understand,basically the only thing I can do is just 20% water changes once a day? Do I treat the new water with the water conditioner?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

First off,Welcome!I advise you to return the cycle stuff,and do a waterchange.The bacteria will build up from the fish waste in the filter media and the gravel bed.The water column has very little to do with it.What you want to do,is leave the filter be.A 50% waterchange is needed now,for the health of the fish.What type of fish are they?some are more sturdy than others but lets face it,they cant live in a puddle full of ammonia for too ling,regardless of the type of fish and of course what the general LPS say.

Plants are a wonderful thing,so much more if they are live.They will help keep the system in balance as well as add beauty for us to enjoy and shelter for the fish.Are they live or are they plastic?My philosophy is,if you can see fish,theres not enough plants,lol.

And leave the PH be.The fish will acclimate.You want a stable PH.If you add PH up and PH down and all that other crap,you will have swings that can be fatal to all your fish.

Please if possible,tell us they type of fish,and also the filter,and if the plants are live.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, rising levels is common in new tanks. Treat water with water conditioner and you can do a 50% water change if the levels are high enough to warrant it. I do 60% weekly.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> First off,Welcome!I advise you to return the cycle stuff,and do a waterchange.The bacteria will build up from the fish waste in the filter media and the gravel bed.The water column has very little to do with it.What you want to do,is leave the filter be.A 50% waterchange is needed now,for the health of the fish.What type of fish are they?some are more sturdy than others but lets face it,they cant live in a puddle full of ammonia for too ling,regardless of the type of fish and of course what the general LPS say.
> 
> Plants are a wonderful thing,so much more if they are live.They will help keep the system in balance as well as add beauty for us to enjoy and shelter for the fish.Are they live or are they plastic?My philosophy is,if you can see fish,theres not enough plants,lol.
> 
> ...



there tropical community fish, Im going to try to remember the names. I have two crabs,(they do have a place to get out of the water),One Dalmatian molley,one Honey Sunset Gourami ,2 mystery snails,1 Black Kuhli Loach,1 Albino Cory Catfish ,and about 5 ghost shrimp,and 5 schooling tetras. I cant remember there names. I was told the Kuhli loach and shrimp dont count as fish. I had no idea I would have this problem,Before I even got my fish I had them test my water TWICE to make sure it was safe.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Yes, rising levels is common in new tanks. Treat water with water conditioner and you can do a 50% water change if the levels are high enough to warrant it. I do 60% weekly.


What about the temp of the water? The petstore told me to turn it up to 80 to make sure the fish dont get ich from the stress. Can I go head and turn it back down? Could that heater be causing the problem? 


And this Nutrafin Cycle had some positive reviews on it,they said it helps the fish,I just dont understand what it does if its dead bacteria.


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

waternut13134 said:


> What about the temp of the water? The petstore told me to turn it up to 80 to make sure the fish dont get ich from the stress. Can I go head and turn it back down? Could that heater be causing the problem?
> 
> 
> And this Nutrafin Cycle had some positive reviews on it,they said it helps the fish,I just dont understand what it does if its dead bacteria.



I'm not entirely sure, but I think Nutrafin Cycle contains bacteria that can survive at room temp inside the bottle, but not the right bacteria for the aquarium. Thus, if this is true, it can convert the ammonia/nitrite temporarily, but needs to constantly be reapplied to the tank. This is only a theory based on the description of the product on the Hagen website (stating it contains 5 different strains of bacteria) and the reported mixed results of it on various websites by actual users. Also the higher the temp, the quicker the bacteria colonizes (and some parasites are thwarted while others might reproduce faster as well), so it would be a good idea to keep the temp as high as the fish can reasonably tolerate.


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## ealerp (Apr 16, 2011)

Keeping your water temp at 80 wont prevent ich it only helps if your fish already have the disease since the life cycle of ich is temperature dependant it helps to increase the water temp to 80 degrees when treating the disease. 

Also adding ph altering chemicals cause your ph levels to fluctuate wich in turn puts alot of stress on you fish wich could cause them to get ich. Just stick with your water changes and daily testing of your water and you should soon have an established tank with happy fish. Good luck.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

Thank you guys for all your help. Now if I do the water changes I wont be taking out the Good bateria and causing the Cycle to get all screwy will I?


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## ealerp (Apr 16, 2011)

No Youll just be removing nitrates nitrites and amonia. the good bacteria live in your filter media and in your gravel and any decorations you might have in the tank.


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

ealerp said:


> No Youll just be removing nitrates nitrites and amonia. the good bacteria live in your filter media and in your gravel and any decorations you might have in the tank.


Thanks for your reply. I dont have gravel,I have sand. I dont know if that makes a difference or not.


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## ealerp (Apr 16, 2011)

not at all


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## waternut13134 (May 18, 2011)

Thank you so much for your help. I re tested this morning and the levels were still the same,the ammonia was dropping a tad which is good. I was wondering if a water pump such as this one Aqueon

Would help circulate the water better? Any suggestions? Thanks


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