# Rookie Mistake Cost me my Cichlids



## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

I know this forum is here to help me - I expect to make mistakes, just not these kind. It hurts badly having to post this, and I considered not posting. I have to do away with foolish pride for the sake of my fish. I still have a lot to learn, and appreciate all the assistance you guys give me. 

Anyway, I did my normal weekly WC to my 29g Cichlid tank that had about 8 Africans. 2 of them were same species that I mentioned in a earlier thread I had about 6 months, the others maybe 2. After the WC I added the appropriate Rift salt, and PH Buffer (1st time I did at the same time) mixing first in the new water before putting in tank. 

FYI: This tank has been up and running for about 2 months without issues except for 3 africans totally disappearing within a week after introducing them to tank that only had one of the old african in it. I thought either the guy at the LFS shorted me, jumped out the tank (I checked everywhere), or they were eaten for being the weaker ones of the bunch. All of the africans were aggressive and close to the same size. My intentions were to over-stock the tank to keep down the aggression of the 2 oldest guys. I thought 12 would do it.

The next day all my cichlids were grasping for air at the top of the tank - I immediately put in a airstone, and started panicking not knowing what was happening. Thinking it was the salt combo, I did another WC - without the salt - everybody seemed good - took some readings everything was normal - fed them - they started hassling each other as they normally do - (just the two of the same species) - I thought everything was good - removed the air stone since this 29g is filtered by a Eheim 2215, and a AC110, I didn't think it was needed.

A couple of hours passed, and I walked by the tank and didn't notice any fish, but I just thought they were underground playing since the tank has plenty of hiding places - when I didn't see any fish the 2nd time I walked through I looked closer - all my fish were dead. Died from lack of oxygen. I was crushed - more so because I couldn't figure out why. Got a cycling spike, which I figure occurred because of the mass deaths. I save a sample of the water anyways to take to the LFS, but being Father's Day, I couldn't take the ride. 

I did a lot of reading looking for a answer before I posted, until a guy on the job said he had a fish tank a while back. According to him, and it makes sense now, I didn't realize it until he said it. My tank is not on leveled ground so one side of the tank water rising a little higher than the other. The side where the AC110 is on is the high side, so there was not enough surface movement to circulate the oxygenated water. The Eheim spray-bar was underwater. Is this what happened? 

PS: My apologies for not having all the parameters, but I left the paper home. I'll post them later if you want to know. (No2, No3, PH, Amm, GH, KH)

Thanks Guys.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Would not be from lack of oxygen! Did you dechlorinate your water that you added?


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

dalfed said:


> Would not be from lack of oxygen! Did you dechlorinate your water that you added?


Yes with Right Start


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

*Start Right


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I have brought home more fish then that in a five gallon pail with the lid sealed on a four hour trip and never had a lack of oxygen. Two hours with that surface area I can't imagine oxygen was the culprit. What were your other readings? Best before date on the Start Right?


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

We need all your water testing results.....

Ammonia or Nitrite poisoning IMHO.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Sorry Guys - had problems getting home my reading:

PH 7.4
Nitrite 20 ppm
Nitrite 1.0 ppm
Amm .25 ppm
KH 50-100 
GH 100-200

This is an established tank - I randomly do test on my tanks during the weeks, and get 0 readings in Amm and Nitrite - Before WC I test just Nitrate which is usually 40. Most of my weekly changes are 60-75% Since I'm not cycling I do not test regularly for anything but Nitrate. Unless my fish are acting strange, I usually do not test. No more than 2 weeks go by that I will not test for Amm or Nitrite. I only feed once a day, and they fast on Sundays..

These readings were after the fish had died. I'm taking new readings now.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Right now my Readings:

Nitrite 0.
Amm 0
Nitrate 20
PH 7.6

I'm going to throw a few guppies in the tank to keep it cycled


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll say the pH buffer caused the breathing issue.Search "pH buffer causing breathing issue in fish" and you will find many links.
You should just use crushed coral,dolomite or limestone.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Fadil13 said:


> Sorry Guys - had problems getting home my reading:
> 
> PH 7.4
> Nitrite 20 ppm
> ...


You have ammonia & nitrite readings so something is not going well.....an established tank will always read 0ppm on both these parameters. 
You list Nitrite twice?? I sure hope its not 20PPM! *y2

That coupled with PH buffer probably did it. 

Don't use that crap.......it's worse than leaving the PH high IMHO.
PH rebound from using that stuff is nasty.


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## mambee (Jul 19, 2013)

Put an Eheim air diffuser on your canister output. There are very good at adding oxygen to the water. 

https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/accessories/installation/diffusor


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

Buerkletucson said:


> You have ammonia & nitrite readings so something is not going well.....an established tank will always read 0ppm on both these parameters.
> You list Nitrite twice?? I sure hope its not 20PPM! *y2
> 
> That coupled with PH buffer probably did it.
> ...


20 ppm is the Nitrate and I usually get 0 readings I assumed the dead bodies caused the readings to spike. The next day or 2 everything went back to normal. 

I hear you on these products are mostly crap, and for the 75g I'm setting up to be my new cichlids tanks has 25lb of Caribbean Rift substrate to balance PH. 

Thanks for the help. 



O


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> I'll say the pH buffer caused the breathing issue.Search "pH buffer causing breathing issue in fish" and you will find many links.
> You should just use crushed coral,dolomite or limestone.


That's what I thought when they first were grasping - why I put in the air stone, and did the 2nd WC of 50-60 without the buffer. 

Thanks


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

mambee said:


> Put an Eheim air diffuser on your canister output. There are very good at adding oxygen to the water.
> 
> https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/accessories/installation/diffusor


Would this replace the spray bar?


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## mambee (Jul 19, 2013)

Yes


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I blast co2 into my 212% overstocked 180g.I highly doubt you have an oxygen problem.Your pH changed from 7.4 to 7.6 in minutes?I don't think your kH is high enough to hold your pH where you are trying to put it and this is causing fluctuations which will kill fish easily.The buffers are all bad news.Even when the pH rebounds they still leave additional TDS(total dissolved solids) in the water to mess with fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The crushed coral will peg your kh high along with your ph. I just posted in the ph/driftwood thread about how dangerous these ph products are. Your kh is probably good or it wouldn't have shifted your ph back to where it started. A crushed coral substrate for Africans is the best way to go if your ph is not already high, like mine is.

Curiuos...what were you changing your ph from and what was your target? Did you ever measure kh before you started using it?

We all have made mistakes...some more costly than others. Just have to learn from it and keep going. It won't be your last.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Painful lesson learned.....

Keep it simple.....unless you definitely have extreme PH issues (rare)...leave it alone and don't use the PH buffer additive crap.


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## L.West (Apr 26, 2013)

As a side note - I would definitely get your tank level. It is not good for the tank to be on an unlevel surface - it could break.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

jrman83 said:


> The crushed coral will peg your kh high along with your ph. I just posted in the ph/driftwood thread about how dangerous these ph products are. Your kh is probably good or it wouldn't have shifted your ph back to where it started. A crushed coral substrate for Africans is the best way to go if your ph is not already high, like mine is.
> 
> Curiuos...what were you changing your ph from and what was your target? Did you ever measure kh before you started using it?
> 
> We all have made mistakes...some more costly than others. Just have to learn from it and keep going. It won't be your last.


My water comes out the sink at 7.6, by WC time it's usually at 7.0-7.2. When I had the guppy tank, the PH would drop below 7.0. This was my fail attempt at keeping my PH around 7.6-7.8 for the cichlids. I brought some coral for the guppy tank, and read that seachem ph buffer was a good for maintaining Ph for cichlids. 

To be honest I rarely measure my KH or GH since the only 2 times I did it was good. 

Sorry I took so long to respond. Thanks for the help.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

L.West said:


> As a side note - I would definitely get your tank level. It is not good for the tank to be on an unlevel surface - it could break.


I have 5 tanks, and I do not believe any of them are leveled, even my first brand new tank that got me started. It's a 30g bow tank with a custom stand. Back side is a little higher than the front. I actually thought tanks were made intentionally with the back a little higher than the front so the HOB filter would flow to create surface movement. Maybe my house is just crooked.


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## Fadil13 (Jan 15, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> I blast co2 into my 212% overstocked 180g.I highly doubt you have an oxygen problem.Your pH changed from 7.4 to 7.6 in minutes?I don't think your kH is high enough to hold your pH where you are trying to put it and this is causing fluctuations which will kill fish easily.The buffers are all bad news.Even when the pH rebounds they still leave additional TDS(total dissolved solids) in the water to mess with fish.


The first reading are after I discovered the dead fish - 2nd set is after I changed the water, with no fish about 2 days later after the WC, and tank just running with no fish in it.


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