# ammonia & nitrites up in cycled tank



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

we've had our 56 gallon tank going for about 6-7 months now. lately we've been having a hard time keeping fish alive in the tank. used to have 0 problems. today i tested the water ph, ammonia, and nitrite (didn't do the nitrate as i just did a heavy water change a couple days ago and we're down to only 4 guppies, a pleco, two cories, and some shrimp and maybe a 2" clown loach that i can't find) the ammonia was between .25ppm and .5ppm, nitrites were about .5ppm. ph was 7.5 roughly. i used the api freshwater master kit to do the testing.

i try to do a ten gallon water change weekly vacuuming the rock out each time to keep the brown junk out. i have two filters on the tank, a 306 fluval canister and an aqueon 55/75 hob, both have filters in them that have been in for a while (cleaned out in siphoned tank water before its dumped)

is vacuuming the rock every time messing things up? or do i have something else going on? the pleco is "pale" (apparently means he's stressed) i haven't been using any kind of antibiotics or anything in the tank.


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Dead fish can be a nasty source of ammonia. I wonder if the missing clown loach is the source of your problems...

That said, have you done routine maintenance on your filters? Perhaps the flow in them has slowed down a lot due to some blockage? Is the plumbing clear?

What temperature do you keep the tank at? Also you might want to test your tap water to make sure it doesn't have problems itself. I'm assuming you're using a dechlorinator like Prime?

What was the total fish list prior to the deaths/problems?

Since you have ammonia and nitrite it seems like your biological filtration is either overloaded or has died off at least partially. Your tank might be in a mini-cycle. 

-Zeke


----------



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

zwanged said:


> Dead fish can be a nasty source of ammonia. I wonder if the missing clown loach is the source of your problems...
> 
> That said, have you done routine maintenance on your filters? Perhaps the flow in them has slowed down a lot due to some blockage? Is the plumbing clear?
> 
> ...


I just cleaned the canister this past weekend, the HOB right before christmas and i am always watching it. (doesn't seem to get as dirty as the canister) i keep the tank at about 78. I do use prime when i change the water. We had about 4 or five more guppies, 1 more cory, and the missing clown loach. This has been going on for longer then the clown loach has been missing.

As far as the tap water, I've tested it before came up as 0 for ammonia and nitrites.


would putting more bio stones in the canister do me any good? only have what it came with in it.


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

The bio media in the filter is the stuff you should NOT replace often.

10 gallon changes are minimal for a ~60 gallon tank. I do 5 gallons per week for a 10 gallon tank. You may not be completely cleaning the substrate and are kicking up mulm that is causing nitrate spikes.

My suggestion: Start doing 30%-50% water changes weekly, and vacuum the ^$^@$ out of the gravel. Also, weekly, take the filter media and wring it out (do not change it) in the old tank water. This will clear any mulm stuck in the filter and improve its circulation capability, while not destroying nitrifying bacteria colonies.


----------



## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Did you clean filters with tap water? That will destroy your bacteria in the tank if you introduced clorine through cleaning.


----------



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> The bio media in the filter is the stuff you should NOT replace often.
> 
> 10 gallon changes are minimal for a ~60 gallon tank. I do 5 gallons per week for a 10 gallon tank. You may not be completely cleaning the substrate and are kicking up mulm that is causing nitrate spikes.
> 
> My suggestion: Start doing 30%-50% water changes weekly, and vacuum the ^$^@$ out of the gravel. Also, weekly, take the filter media and wring it out (do not change it) in the old tank water. This will clear any mulm stuck in the filter and improve its circulation capability, while not destroying nitrifying bacteria colonies.


i've never replaced. its the same as what came with the filter 4 months ago when i added it to the tank. i meant add more to what's there. everything is done in a bucket of tank water i've sucked out of the tank.

so overcleaning the substrate/rock isn't possible?


----------



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

what causes a tank to do a mini-cycle?


----------



## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

brian&amanda said:


> what causes a tank to do a mini-cycle?


A die-off of bacteria from changing filter media or medicating can cause your tank to go through a mini cycle.


----------



## weissinphoenix (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm not familiar with canister filters but my HOB has a sponge (mechanical), charcoal pack (chemical) and ceramic pieces (biological). On my HOB, changing out the charcoal pack would help the situation. So would a fast-growing plant - it eats up everything.

Ammonia buildup automatically implies a nitrite buildup as well because both are your producing more waste than your converting. The waste, if not from dead fish, is from overfeeding or killing off plants, ALGAE and bacteria. Did anything happen that might have killed off good algae? Are you feeding them more than you used to?


----------



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

weissinphoenix said:


> I'm not familiar with canister filters but my HOB has a sponge (mechanical), charcoal pack (chemical) and ceramic pieces (biological). On my HOB, changing out the charcoal pack would help the situation. So would a fast-growing plant - it eats up everything.
> 
> Ammonia buildup automatically implies a nitrite buildup as well because both are your producing more waste than your converting. The waste, if not from dead fish, is from overfeeding or killing off plants, ALGAE and bacteria. Did anything happen that might have killed off good algae? Are you feeding them more than you used to?


if anything, we're feeding a little less. my sword is struggling though but, my other four live plants are thriving. i just figured the sword was struggling due to not enough lighting.

as far as the canister, its similar to the aqueon HOB. water is run through a coarse sponge filter, a second sponge filter, then I've got it going through a water polishing pad and finally through the bio-media (ceramic cylinders). the bio-media is still the original. I think i'm going to get more and add to it since there is room for more. might help idk. I'm just trying to find ideas. would plant fertilizer being causing this kinda thing? I only add per directions and not after every water change.


----------



## bloyet03 (Jul 31, 2012)

well, i talked to my local fish store and they recommended slowing down on the maintenance of the tank. he felt i was changing the water to often and as a result killing my bacteria off due to it not having enough ammonia to thrive on. makes sense. anyone disagree? if so how come?


----------



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

They are right in the sense that if the tank isn't properly cycled or has for whatever reason had its biological filter die off, you won't be able to re-establish the biological filter without having the tank go through a mini-cycle. Excessive water changes (removal of ammonia/nitrite) will probably slow down the re-establishment of the biological filter as those obviously need to be there to feed the bacteria. On the other hand, the ammonia and nitrites will be hard on your fish. It's a difficult balance to strike...Anyone else want to weigh in on this? My new tank just went through a mini-cycle as well (probably from adding new fish a bit too fast + slight overfeeding), so I feel your pain. You should probably just keep recording + monitoring pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate daily and see if you can figure out what's going on.

-Zeke




brian&amanda said:


> well, i talked to my local fish store and they recommended slowing down on the maintenance of the tank. he felt i was changing the water to often and as a result killing my bacteria off due to it not having enough ammonia to thrive on. makes sense. anyone disagree? if so how come?


----------



## PreposterousFish (Jan 7, 2013)

brian&amanda said:


> well, i talked to my local fish store and they recommended slowing down on the maintenance of the tank. he felt i was changing the water to often and as a result killing my bacteria off due to it not having enough ammonia to thrive on. makes sense. anyone disagree? if so how come?


I disagree. Think about it this way. If the bacteria are starving, why are there left overs?

I would stop adding the plant fertilizer. Check the bio media. Is it all gunky and clogged? Adding more media cannot hurt. And keep up the water changes.


----------



## weissinphoenix (Dec 10, 2012)

The instructions (or "ads", actually) on the HOB filter say that having the bio media near the water's surface makes them more oxygenated than if they were inside a canister. I wonder if that matters.


----------



## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

If you are vacuuming the *&^* out of your gravel everytime you do a water change, you are also removing beneficial bacteria. You should only be vacuuming about 1/3 to maximum of 1/2 (but a 1/3 is best) of your gravel every water change, assuming your doing weekly water changes. If you think you need to do more, you may be over feeding.


----------

