# Jesus H. Christ...the Underbody "Cysts" Have Returned; PLEASE Help...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

I was wondering if anyone here can assist me with what seems to be an ongoing problem with just about every tank I set up and keep goldfish in...currently, I'm running a 60 gallon Marineland with adequate filtration (two large HOBs, an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and AquaClear 110), I'm doing religious water maintenance (50% change every week plus a midweek 15-gallon exchange for extra cleanliness), keeping up on maintaning the filter media (rinsing them from time to time in removed tank water so not to strip the BB) and overall just keeping them healthy as best I could. The water always tests good via the API kit and it always looks crystal clear and smells "right" (the infamous pond-like scent). The ONLY aspect I don't keep on top of is regular gravel vacuuming due to the fact that this tank is so darn deep and tall and it makes it almost impossible to get to the bottom of...

That being said -- and my problem is more than likely something "growing" in the substrate because of my lack of vacuuming there, PLUS I'm beginning to see diatoms on my plants which usually indicates phosphates that cause them -- one of my three fancies, a common orange fantail, has developed what many other goldfish I have kept always seem to, which is a "bulge" from beneath the scales but which isn't protruding (yet) and which looks like an internal cyst. I have had a few fancies die on me from this "ruptured cyst" over the past few years and now it seems like it's happening yet AGAIN. The thing is, I don't understand where any of this is coming from -- the water parameters are right, the water is clear and smells good, the filtration is adequate...why do the fish KEEP getting these cysts over time?

I really don't want to treat with chemicals or medications as I have always felt fresh water is much better than dropping chemicals into the tank; I didn't have much luck treating with Maracyn during one of the last infections that wiped out my previous 60 gallon. I do want to nip this before I lose my beloved fantail though, so first I'm wondering what the CAUSE is and what the FIRST STEP should be for treatment -- should I be looking towards salting the tank? I do have API aquarium salt on hand, but I don't know how to dose it...it doesn't get dosed right INTO the water, does it? It needs to be "mixed" and dissolved into water before it goes in, yes? Can anyone walk me through this process?

Now, with regard to the CAUSE -- could the lack of maintenance to the substrate keep causing these cyst outbreaks? Is it like a bacterial infection they're getting from whatever is rotting in the gravel? Should I do an immediate deep gravel vac...and if so, should this at least relieve my goldfish a bit? If it isn't the substrate, what else could this come from? I feed them a mixture of Omega One goldfish flakes, New Life Spectrum pellets and peas (from time to time when there seems to be swim bloat issues)...could this be coming from the DIET? What about my filters -- could a bacterial infection be living in the media or exhausted carbon cartridges of my Aqueon HOB? I know some of these may sound VERY far fetched to many of the pros here, but I'm throwing everything out that I could think of...

If ANYONE could lend ANY insight or immediate help, it would be greatly appreciated -- and please let me know if you need any further information about the tank, conditions, etc.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

I can't say exactly why your fish are getting cysts I've never heard of this. But I do know that if you are having health issues and your parameters are correct you most deffinately need to clean your gravel! When left uncleaned all sorts of nasty things can come about. Next time you do big water change clean the gravel. I have a 56 column and I understand this isn't an easy task. It takes a low water level and stool for me and 6' tall. But it needs done! Even like in my case with heavily planted tank.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Hello 'Wingz, and thank you for replying...



hotwingz said:


> I can't say exactly why your fish are getting cysts I've never heard of this.


Oh boy...well THIS isn't good...

I'm wondering if they're even cysts that I'm seeing; I mean, we're describing them as "cysts" but maybe there is something else going on...they look like small whiteheads/pimples but they definitely grow from BENEATH the scales, not over them, so I know it isn't Ich...they protrude from beneath their bodies and push outward, leading me to believe it's always some kind of bacterial infection from within...

You NEVER heard of this happening? 



> But I do know that if you are having health issues and your parameters are correct you most deffinately need to clean your gravel! When left uncleaned all sorts of nasty things can come about. Next time you do big water change clean the gravel. I have a 56 column and I understand this isn't an easy task. It takes a low water level and stool for me and 6' tall. But it needs done! Even like in my case with heavily planted tank.


But why would the parameters being correct and health issues being present suggest there's something in the SUBSTRATE? Wouldn't decayed food and waste affect the parameters?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

All I could find was fish pox
Fish Pox
and nodular disease
Nodular Disease
unfortunately they say there is no cure for either.
A good vacumm and some antibiotic food probly wouldn't hurt.Most links say the issue is ingested by the fish where it developes into cyst.If the cyst pops it repopulates the tank with whatever the pest is.Even antibiotics in the water might help with this ,but if it is viral and not bacterial nothing will work.
Sorry.
You are pretty sure they are not breeding tubercles?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

coralbandit said:


> All I could find was fish pox
> Fish Pox
> and nodular disease
> Nodular Disease
> ...


Hey Coral,

Good to hear from you again and thank you for your input. I read about the "fish pox" that carp get but I don't think that's what this is...

I am uncertain if the fish has the other issue you cite though...

I wish these were breeding tubercles, but EVERY goldfish that gets these ends up dying in my tank; this one is at least the third that has experienced this. Could this be something in my tap water supply? The exhausted carbon in the filter media? The filters themselves? The possibilities are endless...

We did a deep vacuuming last night and a 50% water change along with it and added some aquarium salt mixed in with some of the fresh water; the goldfish still has the lump which seems to be hardening into a whitehead-like pimple...the typical progression of this from what I've seen...

Here's what concerns me based on what you said: This MAY be something she contracted from pecking and booking through the gravel, and maybe that's what they're ALL getting...but what IS IT? How can something in our substrate be SO dynamically deadly?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Many of these disease can come from fish eating poop,which is in everyones substrate.I found another suspect(disease) which sounds possible and is treatable(that would be good and bad news).
Furunculosis


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Any pictures? And sometimes different parasites can grow in these poor conditions. You may have a parasite that is living and breeding in the gravel. Coral is probably going to be right though ha.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Sorry for the very long delay in getting back to this thread; unfortunately in the time I last reported, I have lost two of the three goldies I had left...the Ryukin and Common Orange Fantail have both died from the swollen bodies/massive growth-like symptoms I had described...

Right now, I'm down to one fancy -- a nicely growing and seemingly healthy veil-tailed Red Cap Oranda. I did do a massive gravel cleaning a couple of days ago and even removed a good deal of gravel from the tank because the bed seemed so thick...it was a nightmare to do in this tank but it seems to have cleaned up nicely...the Red Cap is so far doing well...


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