# Sand and cloudy water



## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

I'm setting up a new 10 gallon and I am using sand this time so I have some questions. 

As you can see it is very cloudy, how long will it take for the sand to settle. Also, I have a 4 tiny fish from the tank that I am replacing and I am wondering how long before I can put them into this tank.


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## Guest (May 8, 2009)

how well did you rinse it?


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Not too good because it was going down the drain to much.


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## Guest (May 8, 2009)

What filter do you have on there? Im jsut speaking from my own experience I went thru less then 6 months ago. it's gin clear now but it looked JUST like yours did when I first started it.

you can do water changes now and get rid of the dust in the water and actually stir it in the tank to clean it. Got a helper have one hold the hose or vacuum and stir away , its a 10G so you wont need 2 hands to stir it.


My 26g Euro pictures from aquatic photos on webshots
thats from start to finish, I dont think they are in order but the cloudy ones are the first pics and the rest are up to recent in the back of the album.

It will clear but itll take some time, I had fish in the cloudy water because I was cycling and running two filters rated at a total of 80 gallons on a 26g tank( did this for a reason), I didnt lose any but I did lose an angel to a tank remodel due to territorial drag outs.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

So I can put the fish into the tank now? I could do a huge water change right before I put the fish back into it, should I do that?


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## Guest (May 8, 2009)

well its unestablished correct?

if so why not it wont hurt anything worse then it would now, I would try and stir all the dust out of the sand in the tank if you can. If not again what filter are you using?

Id wait a few days if you can if not then you got no choice, I personally didnt lose ANY fish but that dumb angel ( the marble was just fine as well as the loaches and cats and all the tetras) it just liked to be in the cup of my hand when I was in there doing work.

It will look the same, there is alot of dust in the sands( what sand do you have?


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

I just have a topfin power filter. The sand is called Super Naturals. I will try to stir all the dust out.


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## Guest (May 8, 2009)

same sand I got, marine sand super naturals from petsmart for like 20-25 bucks a bag, yeah its real nice once its established the fish take to it so much better then gravels.

I just recommend the stirring now just dont fill it all the way and a simple hand over the sand at first works best to knock the lose stuff up and out, and stirring before vacuum helps wet all the sand so the dust is all thats left flaoting.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Ok, thanks for all the quick help. I will post if it all worked or not. Thanks again.


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## Guest (May 8, 2009)

itll work just takes time, since there wasnt the initial clean out then itll take a little longer, maybe up to 10 days however thats at the longest and also depends on how much water your filter pumps thru it.

I dont bother with filter cartridges now for the sand clouds in the tank, I just wrap a cartridge in panty hose and just rinse it out to save the sand and help clear the water faster.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Everything is great with the tank and it looks great.


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## Guest (May 9, 2009)

you will always cloud up however it usually takes about 12 hours for the tank to clear, so do your cleaning in the evening and you wont have to look at the cloudy water.

I tore apart mine yesterday, vacuumed it real well, set a rockbed in there as well as redecorated with live plants instead of plastics. The only thing with my tank now is the brown tinge to it from the mopani wood and that will clear up on its own. Looks real neat with the live plants though.


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## ELewandowski (Mar 2, 2009)

I use sand in all of my tanks and only had one cloud up like that in your picture, it was due to the sand not being rinsed good enough in my case. I pumped the tank out, rinsed sand better, re-filled tank and it was crystal clear within 30 minutes of filling.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

I think I will only use sand from now on, it just looks so much more realistic.


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## underdog5004 (Feb 26, 2009)

TheCheeseWizz said:


> I think I will only use sand from now on, it just looks so much more realistic.


I only ever use sand (brown or white) or natural shaded tumbled river rock, layers of small and large diameter. I can't stand the look of the fake colored gravel, and I can't imagine my fish like it either!


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

This might be better for a new post but if I wanted to change my tank from the "normal default gravel" that most people use to a sand kind of substrate. What is the best way to do it? My tank is over a year old and already has fish in it. I don't really want to move them out and back in if I can avoid it. Can I just change it in sections? Like a 1/4 at a time every few days or a week apart til it all is in there? any suggestions would be great.

Also, I have live plants though. Is sand bad for that? As in will they keep coming out of it?


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## underdog5004 (Feb 26, 2009)

jshank said:


> This might be better for a new post but if I wanted to change my tank from the "normal default gravel" that most people use to a sand kind of substrate. What is the best way to do it? My tank is over a year old and already has fish in it. I don't really want to move them out and back in if I can avoid it. Can I just change it in sections? Like a 1/4 at a time every few days or a week apart til it all is in there? any suggestions would be great.
> 
> Also, I have live plants though. Is sand bad for that? As in will they keep coming out of it?


When I changed out the blue gravel in my 10G tank for sand, I did the following:

0. Turn off all filters and heaters.

1. Drain the water way down. I saved about 5G in a bucket, and put my fish and plants in the bucket as well. 

2. Remove all decorations

3. Scrape the gravel up. It's going to be nasty, but it'll be easier if you have some kind of container to use instead of your hands. I saved my gravel in a trash bag, just in case, but ended up throwing it away.

4. Rinse sand and then add sand to aquarium, at least 2" deep. 

5. Add (tank_size_in_gallons)-(water_saved) gallons of water, let the water come up to temperature.

6. Reintroduce fish, plants, decorations

7. Add saved water to the tank.

8. Turn on filter and heater.

From what I've seen, no matter how well you rinse the sand, you're still going to have some murkiness left over. Don't worry, it'll be gone (usually) within about a day or so.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

mine is 55 gallon. if that matters any.


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## Guest (May 10, 2009)

sand rinsing will take a couple hours to do at your tank size and the amount you need. as long as you keep some water in there think of it as a 75% water change.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Here is what it looks like now. I still haven't added any real plants yet.



I would really suggest doing it jshank.


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## Guest (May 10, 2009)




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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

What kind of sand should I use. My friend had some kind of "sand" he got it wasn't real sand it just looked like it it was almost like a silicone material or something, more like little bitty balls. It looked real though. Won't real sand scratch your glass up?


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## Deadpoolio (Sep 16, 2008)

underdog5004 said:


> 3. Scrape the gravel up. It's going to be nasty, but it'll be easier if you have some kind of container to use instead of your hands. I saved my gravel in a trash bag, just in case, but ended up throwing it away.


I use a small handheld dustbin to scoop out gravel when I need to do it. It fits in a 12" wide tank nicely and the handle is grooved to fit around a broom. This groove is great for tipping backwards and draining most of the water out of the scooped gravel. It just makes the job a little easier and cleaner to do. I'd suggest getting a new one just for the fish tanks. I'd imagine if you grabbed one from the kitchen, you could end up contaminating your tank and gravel with whatever cleaning products and dirt you have swept into it in the past. Just my two cents.


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## Guest (May 11, 2009)

jshank said:


> What kind of sand should I use. My friend had some kind of "sand" he got it wasn't real sand it just looked like it it was almost like a silicone material or something, more like little bitty balls. It looked real though. Won't real sand scratch your glass up?


No, it doesnt move. and when it does move there isnt enough force or pressure to scratch glass.


I use caribsea'a marine sand, its their white sand. They do have plenty of sand and a nice zoom feature so you can see the texture and size of the grains.

Its SuperNaturals for freshwater and salt the others are mainly for salt but check it out

AquariumSands.com


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the link. How much sand will I need for a 55 gallon? Also, what is the reason for taking out so much water? Is it just so it will settle better? A 75 percent water change just seems hard on the fish. I just asked my buddy, he used silica.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

also, I have heard the tank might recycle if you change the substrate. Is this true?


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## Guest (May 11, 2009)

to an extent, most gravel has the bacteria you need on it especially if you have a UGF filter system.

It wont totally recycle since youa re keeping the decorations and the filters.

your water level is atleast a 75% change due to the way sand acts when it gets dumped into water. it will be a big mess and wont clear up for a while. get a 5g bucket, make sure its a very clean one, put 4.5 g's of water it in and put your fish in then hit the tank, they can go back in the same day.

55 gallon well it depends on how deep you want it, id get atleast 3 20-25# bags.

extra never hurt but too little is a PITA.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I have all the old rock out now. well most of it except a few small ones. I am waiting for the gunk of the old rocks to settle so I can vacuum it out. I have the sand cleaned and ready to go in.


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## Angelfish101 (May 11, 2009)

Wow! Cool fish tank!


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

since its a 55, just use a piece of moms or the wifes tupperware to scoop it in, once you get it all in, put water in it but only like an inch above the sand, throw down a plate again from moms or wifes kitchen cabinet and start adding water, using the plate will keep the cloudy water low or non existant.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I have everything in. I had bought some Tupperware to scoop with. It worked well. The water is still clouded up some but its getting better. The fish seem good. A little irritated some and scraping up against my plants and other stuff. I think as the water quality gets better they will calm down.


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

jshank said:


> What kind of sand should I use. My friend had some kind of "sand" he got it wasn't real sand it just looked like it it was almost like a silicone material or something, more like little bitty balls. It looked real though. Won't real sand scratch your glass up?


just make sure that if you use a mag-float to clean your glass you dont get any sand stuck in it, i have a huge scratch on my glass from that


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

Dont use a magfloat with sand, its nearly impossible to keep the sand out of the mag cleaner since the sand is so fine. I got a mag cleaner, worst thing I bought for the tank.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

Just a few random tidbits:

1.) Most of your beneficial bacteria was in your substrate, unless you kept your filter and decorations wet, you will probably experience a mini cycle. 

2.) Silica is a great nutrient for algae! I would never add silica to my tank if I did not have to. Brown algae especially likes this and most people find brown algae on the corners of their tank and on suction cups because....silicates!

3.) For those using sand or clay (flourite) rinse it out well before adding it to the tank. If you forgot, like I did, fill and drain the tank several times until the water looks pretty good. On the last couple fills use a bowl so the water does not splash and you should have instant clear water. If you add live plants to cloudy unsettled water the particles will eventually settle on your plants and keep them from getting light. This leads to their death. Just extra info 

4.) Fish scraping against plants (flashing) usually means one of 2 things. Disease like ich or velvet or bad water like ammonia or nitrite. Check for levels of those 2 chemical and your fish for spots! Are you using a good dechlorinator with each water change?

5.) Fine sand tends to compact and cause anerobic spots (no oxygen) in your substrate. These spots can build up a toxic hydrogen sulfide gas that is bad for live plant roots and fish. If you see a bubble coming out from the sand everynow and then (after about 2 weeks) use something like a chopstick to move the sand during water changes to release these bubbles.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

I kept most of the stuff wet I also kept a bunch of the old rock in big tupperware containers and put it by the filter intake. I plan on leaving it there a few days so the bacteria can re disperse. 

The fish don't have spots. I have been told if the water quality is bad it will cause them to get irritated. They haven't been doing it today. I figured it was just the sand and dust floating in the tank bothering them. Yes, I use a dechlorinator.

It is still a little cloudy but I am not to worried about it. All the fish seem fine.


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

if you have over 2" of sand, stir it every 2 months 2" or less, just agitate the sand a bit when you do any cleaning, unless you have water circulation at low levels.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

I have a bubble wall that I put pretty much at the top of the gravel but I'm a little worried if I put it it that close to the sand it will stir it up.


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

I got a taller tank then you, I had to have the air stone( for surface aggitation) about 5" off the sand. I put it 2" below the surface to serve its purpose, however I am going to CO2 for the plants and the air stone will be eliminated.

It will stir up the sand constantly, if you got some high plants or decor in the back of the tank hide it behind that. Dont even think about air ornaments, thats a mess in itself.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the input. I will just keep it higher. That is what I figured I would have to do.


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

Malaysian Trumpet Snails will do the stirring job for you, sand is fine and it packs hard, over 2" gotta stir, under 6" gotta stir. I jsut stir when I clean the tank about once every 2-3 months.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Well I ended up having a fish die. I knew things weren't real good when he was breathing really hard last night and this morning and not eating. Usually when I would open the lid they knew it was feeding time and would come right to where I dropped the food. It was a bala, the other one is pretty much doing the same thing. At least it is eating though but is breathing hard. Shock I am guessing. I could move him to another tank but it has chiclids that are pretty aggressive and I am not sure how that would even work out. All the other fish seem normal and happy. I'll just have to wait and see I guess. The water params seem normal.


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## Guest (May 13, 2009)

it might be the fine sand floating around and attaching to their gills. Its not uncommon in sand tanks mainly due to the fact the fish has nowhere to go. and with balas they are a quick swimmer and can sprint very quickly so that will cause a stir in the bottom sand as well.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Yeah, well the other one seems fine now and is acting normal again. I think all of them are good. One of my green barbs is a lighter color than normal but the rest seem fine. I will just keep an eye on him. He is swimming with all the others like normal so I think he will be fine. The tank is clearing up and looks a lot better. Thanks for all the help everyone!


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## Guest (May 13, 2009)

what color sand is it?
light color or white will wash out some fish.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Well that might be the reason then. It isn't white but its a light biege.


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## Guest (May 13, 2009)

yeah they will wash out a bit, 

what decor do you have? Mine is live plants for the most part minus some wood but having the dark greens with a white base and colored fish it helps bring out the fish a bit.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

I have a fake log, its just dark brown and hollow. my pleco usually spends the day in it. Also, I have another rock like structure with a cave and 2 other things. They are all dark colored. 3 live plants, are green one is red. I will most likely get more live plants when I update my lighting system.


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## Guest (May 13, 2009)

Get rid of the fake log and get a nice piece of drift or mopani, I like mopani better cause it doesnt rot and it is heavy so it stays put. Helps alot with live plants. I got one plastic root thing and its got java moss all over it now so you cant tell its fake. looks neat.

The fish will like the natural decor alot better too, jsut if you do get a piece of mopani( petco.com on sale got my big piece of 5 bones) soak it for more then 3 days or boil it for a few ,maybe 4 hours.

What light do you have on there now? I am making my own lighting system, its so much cheaper then buying one.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

I just have what came with the tank. I plan on getting the hagen t5 setup. Its a little pricey but I don't really have the time to try to make up my own deal. I also wouldn't trust myself to do it right. I get some natural sunlight. It is in my living room across from the window but in the evening the sun will shine into it if i leave my blinds open.


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

Here are a few pics.







I have some algae on the back wall i need to scrub off still, but besides that this is what I have.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Here is my setup now. I still need some more Anubias and........I cant remember the name of the plant on the right, does anybody know. 



The tank looks good jshank. Its very simple, that is what I'm going for as well.


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## Guest (May 14, 2009)

Sweet, ill post up one later after I prune and stuff, yeah I just stepped on my betta's body, i thought it was a leaf from the java fern but nope, keep your lids closed I dont know if he was forced out or committed suicide but he is done, toast. I am gonna do a WC tonight becuase he was the fin rot issue oh well maybe I stay away from bettas for a bit. 

Yes they look great, however your white sand wont always be that white. hopefully you got some MT snails in with those plants but again very nice tank, itll fill out real quick.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

If you can paint or put a background on your tank, this will bring out the fish's color also, plus who wants to see cords and such?

If you go with a background there is special glue-like stuff that you can use to adher it to the tank, it really brings out the color and makes it look like the background was in the tank. I prefer solid colors like black or blue.

BTW, Your red tiger lotus looks great!


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

TheCheesewizz,

Your hairgrass is still in clumps, you can actually seperate them even more if you want...if your trying to get a lawn.


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Dmaaaaax, are you talking to me, because I wasnt sure how little I should make each one. How thin can I make the seperate strands for maximum cover.


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

TheCheeseWizz said:


> Dmaaaaax, are you talking to me, because I wasnt sure how little I should make each one. How thin can I make the seperate strands for maximum cover.


Yeah sorry I addressed it to the wrong person...anyhow here is a picture of someone who planted various grasses in their tank. Keep in mind this a "pro" using CO2, and special substrate, but it gives you an idea of how thin you can plant the grass:









Here is his tank a month later:









and after a few months just prior to trimming:


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## Guest (May 14, 2009)

3-d background.


DM looks very nice, I finally got the right bulbs today for mine so I am at 2wpg now finally and 6500K


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## jshank (Aug 16, 2008)

What kind of grass is that? So it will multiply over time in a tank and grow together?


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## TheCheeseWizz (Dec 9, 2008)

Its dwarf hairgrass.


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## Nicole85 (Aug 17, 2009)

TheCheeseWizz said:


> Here is my setup now. I still need some more Anubias and........I cant remember the name of the plant on the right, does anybody know.
> 
> 
> 
> The tank looks good jshank. Its very simple, that is what I'm going for as well.


I really like this, it's very simple and cute!


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