# Question about adding old media



## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Ok, I was told before and have done so in the past with my tank before this one..to use the old filter media (and some gravel) from the old tank in the new one to help with the cycle. 

The old tank I have now has some type of algae on the filter and in it. It is dark green and slimy. It isn't the wispy plant looking stuff that I have seen in pics online..on the decos it is like dark green dust or dots. Kind of like how mold grows. Anyway, I have tried and tried to get rid of it and it won't go away. 

Should I even use the old media in the new tank? Should I even use the gravel from the old tank in the new to seed the bacteria? Will the algae or whatever this stuff is move to my new tank if I do so?

Ok I found a pic online of the algae on my decos...
Google Image Result for http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_3/images/algae/04.jpg

The algae inside my filter looks different. It's slimy and dark green. Hate to say it like this but it looks like green snot.  Anyway, they could be the same algae but just look different on different things, but I have no clue. I cannot post a pic as I cannot find the USB cord for my camera! 

Thanks for helping me guys. You're the best!!


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

Effectively all the nitrifying bacteria are in the filter, not the gravel. So adding gravel is just moving debris and nitrate. 

If you are going to move all the fish and the filter at the same time you should instantly cycle the new tank. If you don't do this you have to take things much slower. Unless it is a very difficult algae to get rid of (like black hair algae) I wouldn't worry about. You WILL have algae in your tank, it is in the air. If you are moving fish you will introduce things from the old tank unless you dry and sterilize the fish (obviously not the case).


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

fishguy2727 said:


> Effectively all the nitrifying bacteria are in the filter, not the gravel. So adding gravel is just moving debris and nitrate.
> 
> If you are going to move all the fish and the filter at the same time you should instantly cycle the new tank. If you don't do this you have to take things much slower. Unless it is a very difficult algae to get rid of (like black hair algae) I wouldn't worry about. You WILL have algae in your tank, it is in the air. If you are moving fish you will introduce things from the old tank unless you dry and sterilize the fish (obviously not the case).


Yes I will be moving fish from the old to the new tank. Not at the same time though. I will cycle the tank first. So I should definitely move the old media as well? I just hate to do that and transfer all that nasty slimy stuff to my nice new clean tank LOL..I hope you can understand why I feel weird about doing that. So you think I should just take the entire filter over to the new tank and run it? I have also heard of doing that. But again that algae is REALLY bad in there. All slimy and snotty and dark green. Ugh! 

I wish I could get rid of it but I have tried just about everything. So yea it is a very difficult algae to get rid of. I even tried Algaefix for awhile. It actually worked. I stopped using it though because I found out it was bad for the fish. I rinsed the filter in very hot water for a long time, got all of it out, but it came back again. I have 3 Ottos and used to have a snail in there, and I have a Moss Ball as well. I have no idea what else to try. But if you really think I should move the old filter over algae and all, then I will try it. I just don't feel comfortable doing so.

Thanks again


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

How is AlgaeFix bad for the fish?

What I am saying is that if you move the filter and all the fish at the same time the new tank will be cycled instantly. The filter houses all the bacteria for that amount of fish, so as long as they are moved together you will maintain the balance/cycle. 

If you don't move the filter and all the fish at the same time you need to move the fish very slowly since the new tank will be uncycled. 

I would try a bristlenose pleco in the larger tank.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

fishguy2727 said:


> How is AlgaeFix bad for the fish?
> 
> What I am saying is that if you move the filter and all the fish at the same time the new tank will be cycled instantly. The filter houses all the bacteria for that amount of fish, so as long as they are moved together you will maintain the balance/cycle.
> 
> ...


What I was told was that it removes a lot of oxygen that the algae feeds on. Which is also what the fish need to survive. They said it has a tendency to kill fish, so I should watch my fish and especially my snail. I did lose 1 fish during the treatment. He started getting I believe bloat. He was fat and his scales on top were poking out. Not sure if it had anything to do with the Algaefix, but it is a strange coincidence. Thanks for the fish recommendation. I will get one of those.

I am a little confused, which is nothing new for me So should I do the filter,fish,ammonia also? Or is the ammonia just a different way to cycle? And by adding the fish at once, is that the opposite of a fishless cycle? I have heard people say that that is bad and it causes needless deaths. Basically using the fish to cycle the tank. Sorry if I am not getting it.

Edit: I just read up on those fish and it says a minimum of 30 gallons is required. I have a 25 gallon tank.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

> Effectively all the nitrifying bacteria are in the filter, not the gravel. So adding gravel is just moving debris and nitrate.


This statement is kind of out of the ball park as nitrifying bacteria does grow on all hard surfaces and deco. There is just more of it contained in the filter.

The slimey algae sounds like cyano which is a bacterial type algae and one way to get rid of it is to treat it with antibiotics. But which in turn can also kill your good bacteria. Take the filter apart and clean as much as you can using dechlorinated water which should help.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

susankat said:


> This statement is kind of out of the ball park as nitrifying bacteria does grow on all hard surfaces and deco. There is just more of it contained in the filter.
> 
> The slimey algae sounds like cyano which is a bacterial type algae and one way to get rid of it is to treat it with antibiotics. But which in turn can also kill your good bacteria. Take the filter apart and clean as much as you can using dechlorinated water which should help.


OK and then put it in the new tank? Should I also change the filter? Although that wouldn't make much sense seeing as we are trying to get the bacteria from the old to the new. Unless I let it run for a few minutes/hours? I am trying to reduce the amount of algae that goes with it.

And I always heard that you can use some gravel from the old tank in a hose sock and stick it in the new tank. Even using the decos from the old tank was suggested.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

Nitrifying bacteria can grow on any surface, but like any organism ever they grow in much higher concentrations where their needs are best met. The filter provides the most flow which provides the oxygen and food they need. They will not simply grow evenly throughout the tank. I am not saying that the other surfaces will be sterile, not at all. What I am saying is that the amount of nitrifying bacteria found outside of the filter are insignificant in most tanks.

Cycling a tank means developing a colony of nitrifying bacteria to handle the bioload of the tank. In a brand new tank this can be done in many ways. Using ammonia to do a fishless cycled is usually the best option. Using fish is not safe in smaller tanks. Either way you are providing ammonia for the bacteria to develop. Since you already have enough bacteria in the filter on their current tank if you move that with them to the bigger tank the bigger tank will be instantly cycled. You will have the right amount of bacteria for the amount of fish. It may go through a mini-cycle, but a few extra water changes in the first week or two will help compensate for that.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Yes! This is what some of it looks like on one of my plants:
Google Image Result for http://guitarfish.org/images/posts/algae/diatom.jpg
And here is what it looks like in my filter:
Google Image Result for http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/algae/images/Cladophora_sericea2.jpg

Thank you! I have tried to find what it was for the longest time.


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## fishguy2727 (Sep 5, 2011)

As stated there is not any significant amount of bacteria on the gravel, decorations, etc. if you have adequate filtration. The bacteria grow where the conditions are best for them.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

OK then. I will do as stated and rinse the filter well, and put it and the old filter in the new tank and run it. That media is VERY gunky though. It takes just a few days and it is already brown with the algae. But I will do as suggested. Hopefully I can get rid of the algae if it starts up in the new tank.

And I have "Safestart (tetra) and "Start Right". Which dechlorinator do you guys recommend? I read something about copper being in the water here in Tennessee...


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

What about the fish? I read as stated above that it requires a 30 gallon tank. I have a 25...

And the dechlorinator recommendation as well please.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Well I went to Petsmart yesterday and got "Top Fin Water Conditioner". It supposedly removes copper and other heavy metals and helps neutralize ammonia. I won't be using it until I am finished cycling the tank for obvious reasons. 

I guess I will just keep using the dechlorinator that I have...AquaSafe by Tetra. I also have Safe Start..not sure who makes that but both work fine for dechlorination. I wish I could have gotten some recommendations from you all as I value your opinions (enough that I asked my brother to return the birthday gift he got me). 

If you all think of anything else I should know while doing this please do tell me. I love this hobby and I love the fish, and I don't want to do anything to hurt them. 

I really would like to get recommendations as far as what fish I should put in there as well. I like the Cichlids, and I saw a couple of interesting sharks, and I would love to get maybe a school of some type of silver colored fish because of the way the light makes them shimmer when they turn and swim around. I would also like to try shrimp as someone mentioned they are good "housekeepers". Never had them before so are they difficult to care for? Special needs? What type of "sucker" fish should I get or does that matter? I read something about a catfish? 

Anyway, thanks for the help. And as I said I would love to get the above info from you all.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Anyone have any for me? I have no idea what types of fish I can put in here. I've only ever had the little 10g. Thanks


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Another question please..I started the ammonia part and was wondering if the water was supposed to start clouding up this early? All my levels look great but I just started adding the ammonia around 4 this after noon. I just noticed my water is getting slightly cloudy already.

Is this normal?


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## roland0 (Mar 6, 2012)

Hmmm... maybe bacterial bloom? although I think it should take longer,

In regards to fish I would find one kind you really like then try to build around them.


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## louietsang (Jun 15, 2012)

in a 10g for my first tank i got a male betta and some cardinal tetras... nothing too fancy but still somewhat nice to look at... but it's all up to you as long as you don't overcrowd it.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

louietsang said:


> in a 10g for my first tank i got a male betta and some cardinal tetras... nothing too fancy but still somewhat nice to look at... but it's all up to you as long as you don't overcrowd it.


Thanks. This is for my 25g tank I have now. Not the 10g that I will be disassembling and getting rid of.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

roland0 said:


> Hmmm... maybe bacterial bloom? although I think it should take longer,
> 
> In regards to fish I would find one kind you really like then try to build around them.


Still cloudy and no worse or better. I am thinking like you say a bloom. I will wait the 72 hrs and retest my water.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Do you have any live plants in the system.

If so Kill the lights in the filter where the algae/cyano is growing until it dies off.

If not consider adding some live plants.

then kill the lights on the filter. 


My .02


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

beaslbob said:


> Do you have any live plants in the system.
> 
> If so Kill the lights in the filter where the algae/cyano is growing until it dies off.
> 
> ...


No I decided not to go with live plants. The only time I have the lights on is when feeding, and then only for about 5-10 minutes. It's in my bedroom which is pretty much pitch dark during the day and night. The filter is hanging over the outside of the tank so really no light if any gets in there anyway.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

Retested and the ammonia is at a steady 4.0 ppm. So now I just keep testing every 24 hours until it starts dropping and add more ammonia if it does? I haven't had to add any ammonia since it started. BTW..the ammonia I have is ACE Hardware's "janitorial strength" ammonia. It says it is 10%. I dosed according to the guide posted here and it was WAY too much. The water turned very very dark green almost immediately. I had to change out probably more than half the water before the level would go down to around 4.0 ppm. 

I don't know if that had any effect on the cycle but I am hoping not. So far as I said it is staying at almost exactly 4.0 ppm. However now I do not know how much more to add when the levels start dropping. I know I won't be adding 2 1/2 tsp like when I started. But I don't have a clue how much I will need to put in there now when it starts dropping.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

*questionHow long does it usually take for the ammonia to start dropping? Because it still hasn't. It's a steady 4.0. It's going on the third day after the 72 hrs that I was supposed to wait before testing. I tested as stated above and now it's still after 2 more days a steady 4.0 ppm.

Thanks


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Add a little, then test. Keep doing that until you reach the desired level. I would never add an amount given from someone else unless the ammonia was the same brand, as % levels differ.

Also, if you are doing a fishless with ammonia the method posted here has caused issues in the past and just adding ammonia and waiting for it to drop doesn't seem to work too well. I added enough to get me to 4ppm and added that much everyday. Never tested for ammonia beyond initial. Started testing for nitrites at 1wk point and when I detected them I cut my daily dose in half and dosed every few days and kept that method going until the cycle was complete. That method has worked really well on two tanks.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Add a little, then test. Keep doing that until you reach the desired level. I would never add an amount given from someone else unless the ammonia was the same brand, as % levels differ.
> 
> Also, if you are doing a fishless with ammonia the method posted here has caused issues in the past and just adding ammonia and waiting for it to drop doesn't seem to work too well. I added enough to get me to 4ppm and added that much everyday. Never tested for ammonia beyond initial. Started testing for nitrites at 1wk point and when I detected them I cut my daily dose in half and dosed every few days and kept that method going until the cycle was complete. That method has worked really well on two tanks.


So you're saying that even though it is at a steady 4.0 I should add more? Sorry I am confused. I added what the info posted said to add and as I said it was wayy too much. So now I have no idea what I need to add. I cannot add that same amount again as it was overkill. I am starting to get confused about all this. 

But if you say I should add ammonia again, even though it hasn't started to drop, I will do so. I will be just guessing at the amount to add, however, and I am pretty sure I will get it wrong. Once I add more, I don't test for it? Just wait a few more days and start testing for nitrites?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Didn't mean to confuse you. The whole idea behind a fishless is being able to drive levels high and not worry about water changes and forcing things to happen faster. I can't tell you what my ammonia levels ever got to because I never tested again until the end. You will worry about way too much if you test it everyday. 

Don't worry about when ammonia starts to drop. When you see the nitrites rising the ammonia has to be dropping and it is at that point that you are reducing your ammonia dosing.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Didn't mean to confuse you. The whole idea behind a fishless is being able to drive levels high and not worry about water changes and forcing things to happen faster. I can't tell you what my ammonia levels ever got to because I never tested again until the end. You will worry about way too much if you test it everyday.
> 
> Don't worry about when ammonia starts to drop. When you see the nitrites rising the ammonia has to be dropping and it is at that point that you are reducing your ammonia dosing.


So should I start testing for nitrites now? It's been 5 days. And I should not worry about adding more ammonia? Or yes add more ammonia? I haven't added any more since I started the cycle 5 days ago. It's stayed at a steady 4.0 and if anything it's gone up today. No idea what could be the issue.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Up to you, but if you're going to be dosing ammonia on a daily, and near daily like I mention...stop testing for ammonia. But, you do need to know what amount it took you to get to 4ppm.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Up to you, but if you're going to be dosing ammonia on a daily, and near daily like I mention...stop testing for ammonia. But, you do need to know what amount it took you to get to 4ppm.


I really have no idea how to find that out. I started out with the recommended 2 1/2 tsp for my 25 gallon tank. It was WAY too much and I had to take out almost 15 gallons of that water and recondition it before it went down to the 4.0 ppm mark. And it has stayed at that mark for the past 5 days. I have not added any more ammonia because I am scared it will spike and I will have to change the water again. Did I mess up the cycle by doing that? If so should I start all over again? Geez...

Also I just tested for nitrites and they are at 0. So I am not sure what to do...Called someone at Petsmart and all he kept saying was plant the tank. I don't want to go through all that. I've never had live plants before and he said I would have to dump 90% of the water out, get the fake plants out, get live ones, let them float for a few days and then plant them and wait. God..why is this so much more difficult than my 10 gallon? All I had to do with that was put in old media (which I can't do with this one due to the algae issue), and wait.

And...I noticed the water is nowhere near as cloudy as it was a few days ago. Is this good/bad? Sorry everyone I am kind of panicking right now..


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

So far as the media issue again...since I am having trouble with the ammonia thing (see above please and if you can help do so), do you think it would be safe if I took a media from a fresh box, dropped it into my old tank not the filter just tossed it right into the tank, let it sit for a while and then put it into the new tank it would work? I mean the algae is only in the filter and on the media that is in there, so I am thinking if I just put the media right into the tank away from the filter it would be ok? Would this help with the cycle? 

If not, I don't know what else to do. I've heard this ammonia thing can be difficult because it is pretty precise. I have already messed up once, but now the cycle seems stalled. I don't know if I should just sit and wait it out for a few more days or what to do. I really hope someone can help me because I am getting kind of bummed about this.

Someone else suggested just doing a 90% water change and buying some live plants and sticking them in there. I have never done live plants before and am kind of leery of doing so. He said to just lay them in the water until they start growing roots and just stick them into the gravel. I don't know what to do now...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A few things:

1. No need to stress...you don't have fish in the tank. Have a little patience and the there is no stress. Save that for when you're struggling keeping fish alive (not wishing that on you).

2. You have only been at it for 5 days. That is not a stall. A fishless cycle can still take 4wks or so.

3. No matter what you do, you can't mess it up. It may take longer than the last person who did it, but there is not a timeline for a cycle and every tank is different.

Take the amount you dosed originally and reduce to just under half and dose that everyday. Stop testing for ammonia (trust me). Wait until your nitrites have spiked up to 4-5ppm before you test for ammonia again. Test for nitrites from here out and wait for them to drop. This phase will take the longest, so be prepared for that.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1. No need to stress...you don't have fish in the tank. Have a little patience and the there is no stress. Save that for when you're struggling keeping fish alive (not wishing that on you).
> 
> ...


OK thank you. I will do as you said. I thought maybe I had messed up. 

Appreciate the help of you and everyone else here.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

K just to keep you informed and ask to be sure things are ok, the water in the tank is no longer cloudy. It is very clear, as a matter of fact. Should it still be cloudy?

And the nitrites are still at 0.0 ppm.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cloudy can happen at any time during a cycle. If it happens, its normal. Are you dosing daily?


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

1, you should of just rinsed the filter and moved it with the fish. you wouldnt of had to cycle the tank then.
2, i use AquaSafe by Tetra, ive found it to be very good.
3, you cant have silver sharks or cichlids in a 30gallon, its too small.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> Cloudy can happen at any time during a cycle. If it happens, its normal. Are you dosing daily?


I am now. I just started yesterday when you told me to. I wasn't before...the guide didn't say to do that.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

zero said:


> 1, you should of just rinsed the filter and moved it with the fish. you wouldnt of had to cycle the tank then.
> 2, i use AquaSafe by Tetra, ive found it to be very good.
> 3, you cant have silver sharks or cichlids in a 30gallon, its too small.


So the bacteria wouldn't travel even if the filter had been rinsed? I wasn't sure since it is a bacterial algae. I cannot do that now though, can I? Not to mention I still have fish in my 10g and I am not sure they would do well for weeks at a time with no filter. I also use AquaSafe. I do have some SafeStart as well that I used in this tank.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

now that youve dosed with ammonia and have such a high reading you cant put fish in there! why would the fish in the 10g not have a filter? were you not going to put them in the big tank?
re the algae stuff, i dont know never heard of it but a quick google search never hurts to find out more about it then you can take the best course of action. but youve started the dreaded fishless cycle now so best of luck!


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

zero said:


> now that youve dosed with ammonia and have such a high reading you cant put fish in there! why would the fish in the 10g not have a filter? were you not going to put them in the big tank?
> re the algae stuff, i dont know never heard of it but a quick google search never hurts to find out more about it then you can take the best course of action. but youve started the dreaded fishless cycle now so best of luck!


Because a post or two above said I should have rinsed the filter and put it in the new tank. If I do that the old tank will not have a filter. Apparently I misunderstood your comment. I didn't see the "with the fish" part. Sorry. I was going to put them in there but after I cycle the new tank. That's where my misunderstanding came in.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

if you had put the filter in with the fish then you wouldnt need to cycle but i guess with not knowing what to do to get rid of the algae not putting the infected filter in is for the best. in my opinion tho i would of done a fish in cycle. theres countless threads on here of newbies messing up the fish less cycle. it seems more hassle than its worth, fish in doenst need to harm the fish if its done properly. sorry im rambling, my brain is fried from cramming advanced water chemistry all day!!


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

zero said:


> if you had put the filter in with the fish then you wouldnt need to cycle but i guess with not knowing what to do to get rid of the algae not putting the infected filter in is for the best. in my opinion tho i would of done a fish in cycle. theres countless threads on here of newbies messing up the fish less cycle. it seems more hassle than its worth, fish in doenst need to harm the fish if its done properly. sorry im rambling, my brain is fried from cramming advanced water chemistry all day!!


Yea I had a few people tell me do a fish in cycle. I was going to just take the water out and put in fresh conditioned water and do a fish in cycle in a few days if this doesn't clear up. It's a huge pain to get all that water out and add fresh but it may be the only option since I don't seem to be able to get this done. 

This was my first time trying the ammonia method. I have heard a few people say it's pretty hard because you have to be precise, etc. I didn't realize that when I started this. I figured if I had the sheet printed out with the guide that was posted here I could do it. I was wrong. The other tanks were so much easier because I had media to put in them. I had gravel and filters and filter media. This one is proving to be a pain. 

I do appreciate all of your help everyone. I know it is frustrating because it is for me. And I am sure someone bugging you guys constantly and I am sorry for that. It does mean a lot to me that you are willing to help me with this. Thanks.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

its always best to use old media, thats how ive cycled all my tanks with fish and it does cycle a lot quicker. but if you do start again with fish just remember you gota check the water and make sure ammonia doesnt go above 1. and that it wont happen over night, it will still take time but least you wont have to worry about what to add and when. just test and change water. simples


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

zero said:


> its always best to use old media, thats how ive cycled all my tanks with fish and it does cycle a lot quicker. but if you do start again with fish just remember you gota check the water and make sure ammonia doesnt go above 1. and that it wont happen over night, it will still take time but least you wont have to worry about what to add and when. just test and change water. simples


So if ammonia goes above 1 do a water change?


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

only if you have fish in there.


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## Duchess (Jun 19, 2012)

zero said:


> only if you have fish in there.


Yea that's what I mean. If I end up doing a fish in cycle because this isn't working right.


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