# New Aquarium Help?



## TheBigFish (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello everyone! I just got a new aquarium, and I didn't let it cycle properly, so as you can expect, 2 of my 10 fish died. I have a 14 gallon aquarium. 

:fish-in-bowl:
:fish-in-bowl:
:fish9:

Any suggestion on how to start up my new tank?

My fish are:

5 Marble Mollies (going to put 2 in another tank)
3 Male Swortails, 
1 Blue gourami (up to 5")
1. redtail shark (up to 6")

My tank/equipment are:

-14 gallon aqeuon tank
- Aqeuon quietflow 10 filter
- Aqueon 10 heater set at 78* F
- Omega 1 tropical fish food
- water conditioner
- Nutrafin Cycle bacteria


Now I know most here are seasoned vets and they might even chew me out regarding my fish, but tbh I don't care!

I would like constructive criticism on my tank and show I can stop them from dying and how to control the nitrogen cycle.

*c/p*


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You can go one of two routes with a fish-in cycle. Either 1, add a bottle of Tetra SafeStart (heterotrophic bacteria), which is a quick fix and will still result in a mini cycle, but won't be as bad as an outright cycle, or 2 do partial water changes every day or other day to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite low enough that they won't kill your fish.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

> Now I know most here are seasoned vets and they might even chew me out regarding my fish, but tbh I don't care!


With that kind of attitude, it shows me you don't care about the fish in the long run and with that I won't offer any help.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Yea I am with susan on this one. If you aren't willing to see the flaws in some of the choices of fish then you aren't open to any sort of feedback or "constructive criticism".


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> You can go one of two routes with a fish-in cycle. Either 1, add a bottle of Tetra SafeStart (heterotrophic bacteria), which is a quick fix and will still result in a mini cycle, but won't be as bad as an outright cycle, or 2 do partial water changes every day or other day to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite low enough that they won't kill your fish.


Or....add stuff listed in #1 and still end up with #2. You have drank way too much Kool-aid on that stuff. With as many out there that say it didn't work for them, at least you can do is say - it worked for me...hasn't for everyone, but it did for me. 

There is nothing that instantly cycles a tank and I can't believe that you believe it.....not to the point that you are telling someone that it will keep them from 1 - doing water changes or 2 - from killing their fish.


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## dante322 (Jan 15, 2012)

> Now I know most here are seasoned vets and they might even chew me out regarding my fish, but tbh I don't care!


I dont think the comment was meant as "I dont care about the fish" I think it was more in the context of "I dont care if I get chewed out" 

That being said, The first thing you need to do is read the sticky on the nitrogen cycle. Then get an API master freshwater test kit and test ammonia, and nitrites ASAP. The other tests included in the kit can wait for now. You will probably lose more fish, You have way to many in that size tank.

Let us know what the tsets show and we can procede from there.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I would follow the steps in the link in my signature *old dude

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> I would follow the steps in the link in my signature *old dude
> 
> my .02


How does this apply to the situation? You mean if he was starting today you would suggest this? Not exactly what most would do if the tak is already full, complete with a load of fish. Just how are they supposed to plant and have no fish for the first week....and then add fish later if the tank is already near full? Do you just sort of skim over the last reponse in threads? Maybe you should read the first one so you know what kind of situation is being dealt with and then maybe you'll look less ignorant with such a suggestion.


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## TheBigFish (Mar 5, 2012)

dante322 said:


> I dont think the comment was meant as "I dont care about the fish" I think it was more in the context of "I dont care if I get chewed out"
> 
> That being said, The first thing you need to do is read the sticky on the nitrogen cycle. Then get an API master freshwater test kit and test ammonia, and nitrites ASAP. The other tests included in the kit can wait for now. You will probably lose more fish, You have way to many in that size tank.
> 
> Let us know what the tsets show and we can procede from there.


Thank you Dante! Its not that I don't care about the fish, when I mean chewed out, I mean total manslaughter of how bad of an owner I am (just saying). Some people get very worked up about fish, etc and I don't want them screaming about ohhh, Im doing this or that wrong. However, If you are kind, I will gladly accept your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not normal criticism.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

TheBigFish said:


> Thank you Dante! Its not that I don't care about the fish, when I mean chewed out, I mean total manslaughter of how bad of an owner I am (just saying). Some people get very worked up about fish, etc and I don't want them screaming about ohhh, Im doing this or that wrong. However, If you are kind, I will gladly accept your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not normal criticism.


Ok with that clarification I will help. Also you aren't a bad fish owner as many of us made mistakes when starting out, myself included. I had two white cloud minnows (a schooling fish requiring a group of 5+ and a 10 gallon tank) with a mystery snail in a 3 gallon tank. 

Anywho, if you are willing to learn a bit, they swordtails and the redtail shark are probably not the best choice. 

The swordtails I don't know too much about, but through various reading I've come to understand they should really be in a 29 - 30 gallon tank and if I am wrong somebody please tell me.

The redtail shark can get territorial, at the very least towards its own kind. Also with all the other fish you would be considered overstocked.

To keep everything alive do water changes whenever your ammonia or nitrites are over 1ppm and whenever your nitrates are over 40ppm. You can tell this by getting the api master test kit, it is well worth the $25 - $30 investment. Do not trust the test strips they are inaccurate.


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## TheBigFish (Mar 5, 2012)

jbrown5217 said:


> Ok with that clarification I will help. Also you aren't a bad fish owner as many of us made mistakes when starting out, myself included. I had two white cloud minnows (a schooling fish requiring a group of 5+ and a 10 gallon tank) with a mystery snail in a 3 gallon tank.
> 
> Anywho, if you are willing to learn a bit, they swordtails and the redtail shark are probably not the best choice.
> 
> ...


Swordtails are cute little buggers. The males are the ones with the tail that looks like a sword. they don't get too big "3 inch max.

Thanks for the advice!!!!! :dont_tap_the_glass::dolphin::biggerfish:


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I did some research and most websites are telling me that swordtails can get up to 5" and generally are bought at around the 3" mark. Also if all your swordtails are actually male (I don't know how to tell the difference) they can get territorial, especially with no females. You would be better off with 1 male and two females and even better 1 male and three females. Also swordtails are livebearers so if you go the female route you will probably have a lot of babies.

I got all this info from a few quick Google searches and checking multiple websites for info.


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## BayouGirl (Mar 6, 2012)

jbrown5217 said:


> I did some research and most websites are telling me that swordtails can get up to 5" and generally are bought at around the 3" mark. Also if all your swordtails are actually male (I don't know how to tell the difference) they can get territorial, especially with no females. You would be better off with 1 male and two females and even better 1 male and three females. Also swordtails are livebearers so if you go the female route you will probably have a lot of babies.


*i/a*

I had swordtails in my very first tank when I was _very _young - had the same experiences.

But they are cute!


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Every one makes mistakes, if you really care about whats best for your fish I'm sure you will find people here are kind but straightforward about giving good advice. 

Personally I would start by returning the fish that won't work for the tank. The one that stands out to me the most is the red tailed shark, they get large and are strong swimmers so would be better in a 50 gallon tank. It will never be happy in a small tank and there doesn't seem to be any point in putting it through the stress of a cycle. Research the other fish and decide which ones you want to keep and are suitable for your tank. Lowering the stocking level will also help to make the cycle easier to cope with, for you and the fish.

As others have said a test kit would be a good idea, so that you can monitor the levels of ammonia and nitrites, your goal is to keep them bellow levels that will kill your fish. You may need to do daily 50% water changes. Always use dechlorinated water to do water changes.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Definetly rehome the majority of your fish.. three male swords in a 14g tank will lead to then fighting, and the gourami and redtail "shark" get way too big for that tank and the "shark" will probably claim the whole tank as his and stress the others out by constantly chasing them and not letting them eat, also the mollies would definetly like a bigger tank, not saying anything bad, as others have said some of us started on a bad note as well, if your really willing to listen people will most definetly talk


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

> Thank you Dante! Its not that I don't care about the fish, when I mean chewed out, I mean total manslaughter of how bad of an owner I am (just saying). Some people get very worked up about fish, etc and I don't want them screaming about ohhh, Im doing this or that wrong. However, If you are kind, I will gladly accept your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not normal criticism


Thanks for clarifying this! As it did read differently.

As you were told in chat, most of your fish will get to big for the tank. The best you can do is either return them and cycle your tank, or get a bigger tank, like at least a 50 gal to put them in.

Most of those fish need a bigger tank anyway, and then having livebearers you would be looking at lots of babies and the smaller tank will crash fast.


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Or....add stuff listed in #1 and still end up with #2. You have drank way too much Kool-aid on that stuff. With as many out there that say it didn't work for them, at least you can do is say - it worked for me...hasn't for everyone, but it did for me.
> 
> There is nothing that instantly cycles a tank and I can't believe that you believe it.....not to the point that you are telling someone that it will keep them from 1 - doing water changes or 2 - from killing their fish.


As much as I hate laying myself out like this, I want to go out on a limb to say that at a point in my fish-in cycle (back when I didn't know any better) where ammonia was under control (got to that point through water changes) but nitrites were insanely high despite huge daily water changes, I poured over several forums and decided to give the Safe Start a try. Many have NOT had the results I did, but in my case, my nitrites went from beyond the range of my API test kit to 0 in 12 hours, and stayed at 0 ever since. I have to point out I did not START my cycle with this product and have no experience with doing so. 

The only reason I feel compelled to share my experience is that it really meant a lot to me to be able to save my fish (the tank was my daughter's) and I believe the Safe Start helped me do that. I'm not saying it will work for this guy and honestly, nothing is going to work if the stocking issues are not fixed first, but if this guy cares about his fish I feel he has the right to information from everybody about what has worked for them.


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## TheBigFish (Mar 5, 2012)

Hey everyone! Thanks so much for your advice! Yesterday I went to 2 different petco's with water samples from both my tanks, and they both checked out good! Chlorine was 0 nitrates were a little too low, etc. Ammonia checked out at 0 which is good (I guess). And both aquatic "experts" told me my tank was in an "OK" state. Thats good to hear! I'm still adding nutrafin cycle to my tank (20ml daily), and my fish are behaving a lot better. 

*f-18 smiley

:fishYellow: RIP BoB and BOb


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I still suggest getting an api master test kit. LPS (local pet store) will check your water, but they use test strips most of the time which are inaccurate.

If you go to an LFS (Local Fish Store) they may know better because they specialize in fish, but it is still an iffy chance. 

Here is a link it is worth the investment.

Amazon.com: API FRESHWATER MASTER TEST KIT: Pet Supplies


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Petco and petsmart will tell you they are fine, so that when the fish dies you will have to buy more. Most are not experienced fish keepers anyway so take their advice with a grain of salt.

Do your own testing with a liquid test kit, I am sure will find the readings are far from fine.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

don't listen to what the lfs says about your water, they will tell you your water is fine so they can sell you more fish, as long as you add some kind ofwater conditionor you don't really need to test for chlorine, definetly listen to jbrown and get yourself an api freshwater master test kit,also for your "expert" to say your nitrates were too low dosnt make any sense to me, look for ammmonia and nitrite spikes which is what in sure is goin on atleast alittle, that's a lot of fish in a small space producing a lot of waste


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## dante322 (Jan 15, 2012)

Do yourself a favor and test the water youeself.

also, keep in mind that when you buy fish from a petstore, they are almost always babies. Do a little research first to find out what a fishes adult size is going to be before you buy.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

TheBigFish said:


> Swordtails are cute little buggers. The males are the ones with the tail that looks like a sword. they don't get too big "3 inch max.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!!!!! :dont_tap_the_glass::dolphin::biggerfish:


Swordtails can get 4" min and I've seen a few in the 6" range and the min tank sixe is somthing like a 20 long or bigger


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## TheBigFish (Mar 5, 2012)

I bought ammonia and 6 - in 1 strips. I will get them this week and test my water. Both places I went my ammonia tested next to nothing.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The test strips are worthless and you need to get a liquid test kit to be more accurate.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cadiedid said:


> As much as I hate laying myself out like this, I want to go out on a limb to say that at a point in my fish-in cycle (back when I didn't know any better) where ammonia was under control (got to that point through water changes) but nitrites were insanely high despite huge daily water changes, I poured over several forums and decided to give the Safe Start a try. Many have NOT had the results I did, but in my case, my nitrites went from beyond the range of my API test kit to 0 in 12 hours, and stayed at 0 ever since. I have to point out I did not START my cycle with this product and have no experience with doing so.
> 
> The only reason I feel compelled to share my experience is that it really meant a lot to me to be able to save my fish (the tank was my daughter's) and I believe the Safe Start helped me do that. I'm not saying it will work for this guy and honestly, nothing is going to work if the stocking issues are not fixed first, but if this guy cares about his fish I feel he has the right to information from everybody about what has worked for them.


Funny, that no matter how many "success" stories I read about, they all are just as you are nearing the end of the cycle....as you were. I have read just as many stores that simply say......don't waste your money.

To come here and say that you WILL see this result with this product (whatever that result may be) is just plain foolish.....for although some may have claimed success with it, it certainly must be at a minimum...hit or miss. If the recommendation gets stated with a caveat..."It worked for me.....could for you"...got no problem personally with giving that type recommendation to someone new to this. Otherwise, it's not very smart to have someone new to lay their cards all out on the table so to speak...and expect this miracle product to help (in this case it was adverstised as a guarantee), when there have been just as many or more say that it didn't do anything for them.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Funny, that no matter how many "success" stories I read about, they all are just as you are nearing the end of the cycle....as you were. I have read just as many stores that simply say......don't waste your money.


And here we go. Ben strong-arming his way into having the only opinion that matters.

It's good to know the aquarium forum's own resident thug has returned. Maybe next time, he should stay gone.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> And here we go. Ben strong-arming his way into having the only opinion that matters.
> 
> It's good to know the aquarium forum's own resident thug has returned. Maybe next time, he should stay gone.


I never went anywhere. Say what you want....I never tried to stop your opinion. Why shouldn't mine be allowed? If it differs from yours and it sounds thuggish...I can't help that and apologize if I have hurt your feelings. Mine hasn't been the only one that differs from yours on this product.

Since you are the resident TSS expert....have you read a few examples of how the product didn't work? I have read more of those, as I am even sure you have but you probably thought they were all thugs too?

I have yet to say anything about your personal character, so try to stay off of mine.


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Definetly get rid of those strips, they're just as bad as having petco test your water, get the api freshwater master test kit, the cheapest I've seen them at is petmountain.com, you and your fish will be glad you did


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## shuaigefu (Mar 31, 2012)

If you aren't willing to see the flaws in some of the choices of fish then you aren't open to any sort of feedback or "constructive criticism".
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