# Box filters



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

So what are your reviews on box filters? i think they are really good. they move a good 75 GPH, need low maintenance, and serve for all 3 types of filteration. they do look uneat because a box sitting in the corner of tank that makes a bunch of bubbles doesn't look natural. and they can grow algae on the tubing. so what are your reviews?


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Well you know my feelings on them but here it goes. I don't feel they should be used on anything larger than a 10 gallon tank and then just for raising fry or on a quarantine/hospital tank.


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## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

yup i'd have to agree with that. they move alot of water, but only in 1 area of the tank. i wouldn't use anything besides a sponge filter in Q-tank.


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

the reason u may say they are bad is because people that use them stuff the media in too tightly. the way i do it is take a piece of filter floss, spread it out like a screen, and place it at the bottom of the box. i than put a layer of carbon on top of the floss. than i use gravel and crushed coral for weight and biological filteration. after that comes another layer of carbon, and the a top layer of filter floss. my brother once used 1 in his 30 gallon exotic goldfish tank and used a slightly funneled tube and painted the box green and wrote on it "Nuclear Power Plant", so it looked like it caused the goldfish to become weird and exotic.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I have been in this hobby for over 35 years and IMO corner bubble up filters are all but useless in all but the smallest tanks due to very poor flow and you are not recieving 75 GPH thru an air driven filter. THe smallest HOB filter will do about 10x the filtration as one bubble up filter no matter how it is loaded IMO. You can say what you want malachi but any respected aquariast will tell you the same thing, they are very inadaquate in filtration.


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

archer772 said:


> I have been in this hobby for over 35 years and IMO corner bubble up filters are all but useless in all but the smallest tanks due to very poor flow and you are not recieving 75 GPH thru an air driven filter. THe smallest HOB filter will do about 10x the filtration as one bubble up filter no matter how it is loaded IMO. You can say what you want malachi but any respected aquariast will tell you the same thing, they are very inadaquate in filtration.


Negative.
They are 75GPH. i too have been in the hobby for over 35 years and everytime i tried to run a tank without them the tank would fail. They are no means useless at all. i can't even think of a small tank without them. I would think they are a necessity to any small tank.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Please explain to me how you are getting 75 GPH thru a plastic box with a very small amount of floss that just traps waste and an even smaller amount of carbon that becomes exhausted in a very short time. When a tank is setup properly and maintained properly there should be no way for it to fail that should only happen when neglected. The corner bubble up filter has seen its day and that was back in the 50's till the early 70's filtration has come a long way since the bubble up filter. What air pump are you useing to get 75 GPH thru that filter


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

whisper 100. it does quite a good job. there are at least 20-30 bubbles per second. the carbon exhausting thing sounds funny. explain me this: i have a 125 SW tank with 1 oz. live rock, crushed coral as substrate(which i never vacuum), 104, 105 and 304 fluval canister filters which i change once every 6 months, 2 box filters that i change once a year, 1 cascade 300 in-tank filter, sand shark 200 in-tank filter, 17 cherrystone and little neck clams, 35 watt fluerescent lighting, 1 algae wall, small "Bushes" of different kinds of algae through out the tank, and no protein skimmer, a marine land ? watt submersible heater, a few snails, 1 marble shark, 2 snowflake eels, 3 mummichog killies, 1 dog face puffer, 1 clarkii clown, and 3 feather worms. explain to me why my tank is still going well.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Its not doing well because in another post you have admitted that you cant keep inverts because your nitrates are high, drop in some coral and lets see what happens. How can you determine the GPH by counting bubbles?? that sounds foolish. Fish can adapt to high nitrates that has been proven time after time but there life span is greatly reduced because of this but corals cant. I will add this IMO you are torturing your animals with your water conditions and your cherry stone clams are not any kind of substitute for a protein skimmer, if you were to hook up a decent skimmer the junk it would pull out of your system would absolutely amaze you and you would see a drastic improvement in your fish. You have nothing in your tank that needs any kind of light to speak of in fact this algae you talk so highly about does best with old bulbs that have shifted there spectrum and low wattage it also does good because of HIGH nitrates phosphates and excessive nutrients


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

every time i tried to set-up a SW tank WITH a protein skimmer it would fail. besides, i can't afford a protein skimmer. arent feather worms and snails inverts? and my snowflake eel is over 7 years old and doing good, so i don't know how his lifespan has been shortened.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I copied this from one of your other posts.


i have run all my saltwater tanks with very little or absolutely no live rock. i have never used it before but i think i might use a little sometime soon caus my CUC never make it. my son (petlover516) is urging me to use it because he says that it will reduce nitrates so my CUC will survive but i am going cautious on it because i never had a problem without it and i am afraid something wrong will go on and i dont like using chemicals in my tank and i have heard that u have to add certain additives for live rock.

No chemicals are needed for LR who ever told you that doesnt know what they are talking about, LR harbors your bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate, with a deep SB not CC and large pieces of LR you will get a oxygen void area that will in turn convert nitrates to harmless nitrogen. The thought of sand being bad is totaly wrong, I copied this off of WWM by Bob Fenner

Shark Tank Substrate
Hi Bob, I very much appreciate your site and the wealth of information you offer, and thank you for all your time and advice.
<No problem.. it's what we're here for!>
I currently have an existing 40 gallon setup with silica sand that would serve as a temporary quarters for a banded cat shark until the larger tank (125 gallons) is fully cycled and ready to accept such a huge load. A larger tank will be procured/converted as the need will soon arise. I have read over the information on your site and did not see anything pertaining specifically to using silica sand vs. aragonite/crushed coral for shark keeping.
I do realize the benefit of the buffering capacity of the latter, but this should not be a concern as the well water I am on has a high PH. I keep a freshwater hystrix ray in a 200 gallon setup using natural sand, and the ray is doing very well. I have stayed out of the way of silica sand for the ray due to the potential to scratch the belly of the ray and allow for infections. Is this advised for a shark as well?
Thanks for your time and insight!
Mike
<Mike as you know this shark will require a 200 plus gallon tank in around a year or so. You might want to try and get the 200+ instead of the 125 so there is less hassle! Sharks need the finest sand possible so shoot for natural sand instead of crushed coral/silica. You'll be thankful when the shark doesn't get scratched up. BTW how big is this shark? 40 gallons even for a baby is way too small. You need to but the baby in a bigger tank ASAP. Hope this helps! Phil>

Here is the link
SharkSys2

I will ask you this do you know what the life span is of the fish you keep, Snowflakes up to 20 years clowns 15-20 years. I would like to suggest that you try out a sump/fuge and with that you could get rid of most of the filtration you have on your tank because macro will pull out a lot of nutrients out of your tank. I would like to know the size of your snowflake if you dont mind


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

the snowflake is currently about 1 foot. i still don't believe in fine sand. a shark could easily inhale it. after i can find a bigger tank the 125 will be a sump. i think i will probably see to it i get a medium-sized skimmer-now if u say u know everything what company should i use?


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Sharks along with many other fish sift thru the sand for food plain and simple. I have a friend that got a snowflake Eel about 3 years ago and it was like 8 inches and it is now 2 foot long and is like 2+ inches thick so yours should be at least that long and even closer to 30 inches long and 3 inches thick. I am sorry to say this but I believe your water qaulity is the reason that it hasnt grown to the size it should be and will probably never make it to 10 years old, 7 years is good tho. I really think you should listen to Fenner and the other true experts out there to make the most out of your setup but thats JMO


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

ok i will do everything u say (but i won't take the boxes away). if a fish dies, its your fault and a negative feedback.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

OK fine but you cant change it all at once you need to take your time because as soon as you start removing the CC you will release toxins into the tank and the LR needs to be cured before putting it in your tank and you need some high flow PH's to let the DSB and LR do its job. I would still like to see you get rid of the corner filters but this is a start. Will you be doing the sump/fuge or just the sand and LR.


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## tamableanimal (Nov 8, 2008)

What ever changes you decide to do, do them slowly. Nothing good happens in this hobby fast.


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

tamableanimal said:


> What ever changes you decide to do, do them slowly. Nothing good happens in this hobby fast.


+1. completely agree.


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## malachi (Feb 20, 2009)

o and yes im doing a refugium/sump idea once i move up my tank size. right now i'll just start with a protein skimmmer-what company?


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