# Overstocked



## M1ster Stanl3y

So I see the biggest concern on this forum is aquariums over stocked. 
What exactly is overstocked? 
What problems does it cause?
Can a tank be understocked? 
If you maintenace your tank like a slave can you conter act overstockedidness(i made that word up  )?


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## danilykins

IMO it depends on the size and what kind of fish you have. Filter size definitely depends too. 
Goldfish.. you should have 10g per goldfish, they are VERY dirty fish, they are pigs and eat a lot and that means they poop a lot too. They also grow fairly fast if you have the right size tank for them. I have seen a normal feeder fish at least 7 inches long and 3 inches wide.
Livebearers (i.e guppies/mollies/platies) I like the 1 inch rule, but honestly it helps to have a little on each level.

Like I said if you have good filtration and you actually take care of your tank (clean atleast once a week) I think you can "push" the limit a tiny bit.. BUT thats JMO


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## automatic-hydromatic

danilykins said:


> if you have good filtration and you actually take care of your tank (clean atleast once a week) I think you can "push" the limit a tiny bit.. BUT thats JMO


I agree

I've probably got about 40 inches of fish in my 30 gallon, but with the help of the plants eating up the ammonia, and the external canister filter removing the floating solid wastes, things stay in perfect balance


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## jrman83

Personally, I think overstocked can be subjective and can have many definitions. If you have the per gallon guidleine met and yet you're having issues with ammonia/nitrite you're overstocked. If you have even half that fish and the same issues, then you still can be overstocked.

The per gallon guideline is just that....a guide to give you an idea of where to end up and stop. In one of my books it says .5" per gallon of fish and most of what you read is 1 inch per gallon. This is where you should be without major difficulty in maintaining fish health. You can exceed it, but what also has to come with it is increased maintenance. 

Some fish require a certain amount of space on their own like Discus and Angels. If you don't put them in the right sized and one smaller instead, I don't think the term overstocked is properly applied. It just means that the tank shouldn't house that fish. 1 Angel in a 10g will not exceed the bio-load, but it just isn't big enough for it.

You could probably get 10 more definitions and they would more than likely all be right.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

why isnt a 10g big enought for a angel? i have mine in a 10g thats a vertical 10 instead of the long and there is tons of swimming room. Everything has grown nicely on the fish no deformitities no bent fins, feelers, or anything. 

I do agree in 75% of the cases when there are problems yes overstocking is the cause. But if you can maintain the tank properly with your fish then why not have as many of the darlings as you want. well without stressing the fish out and harming them. Im not saying keep 100 male bettas in a 55g.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

or can we collectivly come up with a guide. Something other then 1in per gallon to help out people who want a "fuller" tank.


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## jrman83

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> why isnt a 10g big enought for a angel? i have mine in a 10g thats a vertical 10 instead of the long and there is tons of swimming room. Everything has grown nicely on the fish no deformitities no bent fins, feelers, or anything.
> 
> I do agree in 75% of the cases when there are problems yes overstocking is the cause. But if you can maintain the tank properly with your fish then why not have as many of the darlings as you want. well without stressing the fish out and harming them. Im not saying keep 100 male bettas in a 55g.


I don't know the quidelines for Angels...I was just using as an example.

It is true you can push the limit quite a bit but maintenance isn't the only factor. Stress on the fish is a huge factor. In your water there is probably numerous diseases that can affect your fish but they fight off by their immune system...things like ich (which I have read is present in every tank). If your fish become stressed it also stresses their immune system. If one breaks out with ich then you've got a tank full of sick fish, and a ton to treat. Just one example.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

i know it was just an example but its one I hear alot and it confuses me as to why. I can see on a regular 10g there isnt much up and down.


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## jrman83

In another one of my books, it says that 10g tanks are not good for anything to inhabit on a permanent basis and says that the minimum size for any fish is 15 gallons.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

in theory if i have a 40gallon tank, and i stock it correctly with top swimmers, middle swimmers, bottom swimmers, and have ample filtration and do the needed work you could do more then just "push" the 1in rule, you could blow it right away. There has got to be a better way of helping new people stock a tank.


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## susankat

Have you ever seen a full grown angel. I had one that if it was in a ten gallon the bottom fins would touch the bottom of the tank and the top fin just barely below the water surface.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

yeah my lfs had soem for sale a month ago, $20 a peice for ones that were huge. How long does it take for them to get full grown? 

still say we need some better way of helping new people then 1" per gallon or just saying x fish needs x tank.


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## jyy

As far as the Angel fish, Angel Fish can grow to be 12" tall and probably taller. I have seen Angel Fish with bodies 6" in diameter, but it is unusual for them to grow this big.

As far as over populated tank, With African Cichlids I over populate them as a distraction, for aggression issues.

But as others stated... filtration!


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## jrman83

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> in theory if i have a 40gallon tank, and i stock it correctly with top swimmers, middle swimmers, bottom swimmers, and have ample filtration and do the needed work you could do more then just "push" the 1in rule, you could blow it right away. There has got to be a better way of helping new people stock a tank.


Nothing says you have to have bottom, middle and top swimmers. That only matters to the aqaurists and how the tank appears. Stock it how you want with the fish you want and don't sweat so much where they roam.

Ample filtration. Subjective to some point. You couldn't strap on 2-AC70s on a 55 and expect you can overstock the heck out of your tank. You would still potentially fight ammonia issues. 

The tank would need to be pretty heavy on plants, IMO. This would be to handle the ammonia from all the fish.

My 75 is overstocked, but it is pretty heavily planted. It has two Eheim canisters on, of one is a wet/dry filter.


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## snail

susankat said:


> Have you ever seen a full grown angel. I had one that if it was in a ten gallon the bottom fins would touch the bottom of the tank and the top fin just barely below the water surface.


I have, I can't imagine one it a 10 gallon. Young fish can be housed in a much smaller tank that the adult fish but the advice given is usually for the adult fish because many people think they will upgrade later but the fish grow faster than they think and they don't have the chance to get a bigger tank before they have problems.

When giving advice to newcomers I always advise stocking on the low side and most of the people asking questions on here are newcomers. I'd say it comes up so often because the majority of first time questions are to do with emergencies caused by cycling or overstocking. Ideally we like to help people before their tank is overstocked or at least before being overstocked starts killing their fish. Most of these people also have basic filtration and lighting that came with the tank and may not yet know how to grow live plants. 

If some one really knows what they are doing then I have no problem with them 'overstocking' their tank. However too many people say things like "I've had a common pleco and 3 goldfish in my 10 gallon aquarium for a year now and they are all healthy so I don't see a problem with it". Keeping a fish alive for a couple of years doesn't prove that the fish is thriving, and even if they are they are still going to outgrow the tank. If a person says they have had their pleco for 15 years or their goldfish for 30 then I would be interested in how they cared for it. Even experts that have tanks that are heavily stocked have to balance the risks of things like power cuts or not being able to do water changes because of a bad flu.

I think it's impossible to come up with a simple rule or guide for stocking, you have to do careful research on each fish and combination of fish for your specific tank. The inch per gallon rule can help to get people pointed in the right direction but obviously has great faults and limitations.
This site is pretty good:
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor


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## jrman83

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> There has got to be a better way of helping new people stock a tank.


Going back over this statement....I really don't see how much more basic a guideline can be than 1" of fish per gallon of water. There are obviously many more factors that can be involved with whether or not you actually are overstocking your tank. But....beyond the basic rule it gets a little more complicated and potentially complex, and those are things that you don't want to mix with someone new to all of this in the beginning. Not to say that someone new to any of this can't handle what this hobby can throw at them. In the beginning though, there is a lot to get accustomed to...the nitrogen cycle, water testing, water changes, filter maintenance, lighting periods, disease, fish acclimation, temp, water treatment, maintenance schedule, etc.... Once these become habit and able to be dealt with without hesitation, then maybe someone new could venture out and maybe look at adding more fish than the basic rule allows. Providing they know what this requires of them. Adhering to the main rule for stocking will keep all of those things easier to handle and not turn off the new aquarist to the whole idea of keeping fish. Because being overstocked only exacerbates any problem.

It should be considered a Golden Rule. It merely gets you started on the right path, nothing more.


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## jrman83

snail said:


> I think it's impossible to come up with a simple rule or guide for stocking, you have to do careful research on each fish and combination of fish for your specific tank. The inch per gallon rule can help to get people pointed in the right direction but obviously has great faults and limitations.


Better than I could put it.


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## mec102778

I believe the 1 inch rule is pretty basic, and actually it's 1 inch of adult fish. So if you have a 30G tnk and you buy 2 fish that can grow to 15 inches you have reached the capactiy of the tank. Anything more than this will be over stocked and require additional care.

1 inch rule is meant to assist new fish keepers by keeping things simple. 20g tank with a 20g filter with 4 - fish that will grow to 5 inches each will be easier to maintain than a 20g tank with 20g filter and 12 fish that grow to 4.5 inches.

once you are comfortable with fish keeping and taking care of the aquarium, all right do what you want cause you have the tools and more knowledge than you did when starting out.


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## majerah1

I dont think a general rule should apply.You have to take into consideration the waste level,aggression and temp.All these will play a role in the size tank.For example,my macrostomas.They are three inches,and theres three of them.Many say they are tank busters,and should be housed in a 40 breeder minimum.But the person I bought mine off of,houses trios in ten gallon tanks.I can see how you would want more room,and for someone who doesnt do waterchanges as often or have a great filter,then forty is the way to go.But if its heavily planted,well maintained and the filter is a good one,then ten would work.Balance is definately key.Maintenance,filtration,planted or nbviously if you dont have plants you will need more maintenance.Also like the temp.Its a proven fact that if you house a tropical fish at below the normal temp,they will be less active,and produce less waste,leading to less waterchanges.Thing is,the fish suffer.

I think proper research should be done on any fish you think of housing.Look at more than one site,ask people who have kept them their experiences and if there is any rule that must be followed,and those that are just a suggestion.


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## chris oe

I think people always want to boil things down to principles for beginners, hoping this will help reign them in to start with, but those first principles become almost superstition, people forget the "why" behind them, and concentrate on the letter of the rule. Plus you get people who hear "I can have an inch of fish per gallon" and go right out and buy the max number of fish they can have according to that rule before they've even put the water into the aquarium. I prefer to keep my tanks overplanted and understocked as a personal preference. When I was first starting out as a kid my dad would only let me buy one fish every couple weeks. I imagine it was kind of hard on those fish that prefer to live in groups, but it taught me to glow slow and I rarely if ever lost one, even when I was 14.


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## mec102778

I agree you can do whatever you want with your tank, there are no rules. However to give the new aquarist an enjoyable start keeping with a basic principal really is the best way to go.

I have a 37G Tall with 11 African Cichlids that will grow to around 4.5 inches each. None show stress, all of them are very active, and their colors are stunning. And I think my Johanni are courting as they were swimming in circles with each other head to tail (mouth brooders, eggs spots on the tail of the male attract the female when spawning so the eggs in her mouth can be fertilized by the male). I do however enjoy working on my tanks and find it relaxing so spending more time on the weekends tanking care of them makes me happy.


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## majerah1

Oh I agree,there should be basics,but I think people should still research before buying.That way they will know how far to stretch the inch per gallon rule.I have three macrostomas in a 25 gallon,heavily planted.The water is pristine.I am getting courting behavior as well, though these are still quite young.

Mec102778,Thats an interesting way of mouthbrooding.My bettas are mouthbrooders as well,but they still have the typical betta wrap,then the female picks the eggs up and passes them to the male.

I work on my tanks constantly too,lol.I would get bored if I didnt.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

I see the forum is working again....

ne ways yesterday I was messing around on another forum and they have whole profiles of fish. I think in 75% of community tanks ive seen people have neon tetras, or tetras of any sort. According to their stats for most of the tetras they get 2" and should not be kept in groups less then 10". So with a 10g being a normal starter tank that people use, and a neon being one of the top fish for starters, to keep the fish happy you wouldnt be able to get them in a 10g and not have people yell its over stocked. 

I say just stop selling the 10g's. Make 20's the new 10's that way most people wont over stock right off the bat.


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## jrman83

Most tetras its recommended 5-7, from what I've read anyway.

10g makes a good shrimp and fry grow tank.


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## majerah1

Tens do have their uses as do fives.They are good for breeders and for starter growouts,shrimp colonies and quarantine/medical tanks.I just dont think they should sell them as complete kits for the life of your fish type deals.


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## verdifer

Overstocked really depends on 2 factors.

1:You have that many fish your filtertration can't keep up.

2:Room for fish, not having enough room can stress the fish among other things, if you think about it this way, you have a house with a family in it with 3 bedrooms, mum and dad have a room and the 3 kids share the other 2 between them, this isn't a problem but lets say we had mum and dad and 19 children all in this 3 bedroom house there will be problems because there just not enough room.


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## M1ster Stanl3y

verdifer said:


> Overstocked really depends on 2 factors.
> 
> 1:You have that many fish your filtertration can't keep up.
> 
> 2:Room for fish, not having enough room can stress the fish among other things, if you think about it this way, you have a house with a family in it with 3 bedrooms, mum and dad have a room and the 3 kids share the other 2 between them, this isn't a problem but lets say we had mum and dad and 19 children all in this 3 bedroom house there will be problems because there just not enough room.


you watch that 18 and counting show dont you? or what ever its called. The one where they have a gazillon kids raning from 20's to new borns.


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## verdifer

lol.


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