# Shrimp Deaths!!!



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Maybe my water isn't hard enough??

pH: 7.2 - 7.8 (liquid test had a big range)
Ammonia: 0 - 0.05ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 20ppm
GH: 15 degrees (268.5ppm)
KH: 7 degrees (125.3ppm)

That is with the liquid test kit (API). When I use the Jungle and API test strips, I get different answers.... Jungle strips saw the GH as 240ppm and API test strips saw it at 300ppm. (Both strips gave a pH between 7.0 - 7.8

So, should I boil a cuttle bone and put a piece in the tank? This may help raise the calcium level?

Also, when my tank was tested against my cycling tank AND tap water, it's parameters are waaaay different. What could be changing my tanks parameters from my taps? (The pH, GK, KH?) The tank runs with Nitrazorb to get rid of high NitrAtes, but it shouldn't be changing pH and hardness levels!

I'm really tired of my shrimps dying! (I'm hoping it's a water hardness issue.... what do you think?)


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Have you ever tested a glass of water after it sets out 24 hours. Your tap water will outgas and ph will either go one way or another but it will be different from when you first draw it. 

What is affecting your shrimp my guess would be the ammonia. Even just a little bit can harm a shrimp.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The simplest way to increase your Hardness and Calcium levels is to add a little Rift Valley Salt (available at most large TF Shops or Foster's WEB site). If you follow the directions on the bottle you should end up with a ph of 8.0+. If your shrimp are brackish water creatures, make a 50% solution of seasalt and you can accomplish the same thing.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your GH is really high, don't think it is that. Mine runs in the 5 degree area and I keep Amanos. Your kh is high enough that ph swings shouldn't happening either. I agree with Susan and sort of what I've already said before. Do a water change. Stop worrying about nitrate levels.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

That's what I don't get. I did a 25% water change yesterday when doing a gravel vacuum. I tested the water 6 hours later, and the liquid test came back at 0ppm ammonia. (The strip test came back at .5ppm, so which do I believe?) It doesn't matter if I do water changes. I'll test before I change the water and the ammonia is at 0ppm, I do a water change and 6 hours later it's still at 0ppm. (It's the strip test that's throwing me off. Everyone says the liquid is more accurate, but then why is the strip test showing ammonia?!)

I can see one RCS that looks like her shell is cracked across the back and I can see her white "muscle" between the cracks. She's still walking around fine though. This is why I thought it may be a soft water issue.

Our water doesn't have any gasses in it. It's an artisan well, so water that comes from the tap tests the same as water that has sat for 24hrs.


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## PC1 (May 25, 2011)

Its not a harness issue, something else is going on. I keep my Fire cherries at 6.8ph and they thrive. Don't add salt to your shrimp tank. Do you use Co2 in this tank?
Your tank water should be different parameters then the tap. You have plants, creatures, sediment, filters all of that changes the water. From what you point out it doesn't sound like your water. Maybe a sickness spreading (happens sometimes). How often do you regularly do water changes?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

My advice is to throw the test strips away and just go by the liquid. 

If there is no ammonia showing on the liquid then there is no ammonia. Water changes are for removing nitrates mainly and it will just dilute ammonia but you really don't have much in there to raise your ammonia.

My RCS are in water that is 6.8 and is doing fine so I don't know what you have going on. What do you feed the rcs? They need more than algae, mine eat shrimp and crab cuisine along with algae. The crack in the shell sounds more like damage.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I was dropping in some Fluval Shrimp Granules, but then saw that in the ingredients there is copper...... so I stopped. They do pick at the frog bites and the left over flake food, algae wafers and blood worms that fall to the bottom. Their little feet are always picking over something.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Get rid of all the strips. The liquid test kit for ammonia is much more accurate. Are you using strips to test gh/kh also? Not sure what you neabt by the liquid ph test having a wide range? I have never had mine show a range in the same tank. You should have a high and low range kit though...wasn't sure if you bought the API master kit which has both.

Usually a high gh indicates plenty of calcium, but if you wanted to add the cuddle bone to be sure I don't think it would hurt anything. I dose my tank with gh booster once a week, mostly for my plants.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

The GH/KH tests and the pH are all liquid test kits. The reason I say 'range' for pH is, it's like a see through creamy colour.... so, looks like lower than 7.4 but also could be around 7.8 - it's hard to tell. (We got the high rang pH test because our water is so hard, and we are like 15 minutes away from the LFS and they have similar water, so they recommended the high range one.) Ugh, now I have to get the low range? (Husband's gonna' roll his eyes and say the high range one is fine, lol.) - lol, just told him, and he was like "I don't wanna' go back to the stoooooore!" - he works like 10 minutes from it. Hahahaha, I'll send him to get it tomorrow.

LFS guy said that the pH could be lower because of the ammonia spike. (It used to be at 7.8, so that could be it.)

Is the pH test called "Low Range pH test" or just "pH test"? (Gotta' make sure the hubby gets the right one.) We currently have the "High Range pH test."


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You may not actually need it, but for ph ranges within the low range capability, it seems to be more accurate than just using the high range. JMO. Always good to have both, regardless.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

True. We may be just on the 'cusp', so it makes sense to test with both.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

holly12 said:


> True. We may be just on the 'cusp', so it makes sense to test with both.


I actually meant to say that...slipped my mind. (some girl keeps texting me and distracting me)


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Lol! ooooOOOOoooo! Aren't you the popular one with the ladies!!! Hahahaha!


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Being 15 miles away doesn't really mean that they have the same water. You stated your water was from an artesian (sp) well. Is it the same for LFS. 

The house that I live in now is about 4 miles from where I use to live. Same town and all and the difference between the 2 places is amazing. The old house had a stable ph of 6.1 and here it fluctuates between 6.8 to 7.6 depending on the time of year.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hmmm, good to know. I guess that makes sense, lol. (Didn't really think about the water being exactly the same. Just thought it would be close, but I guess it isn't a for sure thing with different places no matter how close they are.)

I wonder what makes your water's pH fluctuate like that?

(P.S. is the copper oxide in the Fluval Shrimp food ok for the shrimp? I thought all copper was bad for them.)


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

I just heard a great story on NPR, about a guy that has written a book on water, and it's amazing what we don't know about it. Anyhow all water contains gases of some kind along with a myriad of things. Tap water has some amazing standards it must keep up, but that is not to say it's all the same. Many varibles, pipes, source, last 100' feet(ur house), treatment etc....
Try what Susan suggested. 
It could be the cumlitive Am. We've mentioned b4, I know this is may be dumb to ask... But how long do you let the test water sit after you've added the API solution?
I've seen people just compare the chart as soon as they add drops....
And it may also be copper build up, but I don't know anything about the food your mentioning, is it food for shrimps? Or shrimp based food for fish? Easily confusable.
Cracked back is not molt is it? Or as mentioned maybe damage from a curious or over eager mouth.
It's still likely that the tank is overstocked and filter over worked ;(


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Have you ever tested your tap for copper? API makes a copper test kit. I'm on well water also. I tested mine a while back just to check.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

The amount of copper in feeds and fertilizers is insignificant to have any effect.

pH kinda concerns me a bit in that you mention the "range". Definately need a better result. If you are at 7.8 or even above, that's too high for RCS.

NitrAtes and Ammonia are reading fine (definately toss the strips...they are suseptible to contamination thus leading to false results).

What is your temp? 

I've got a couple more ideas floating around based on your description. Can you get a pic of the shrimp with the "cracked" shell?

Also, check with your LFS and see if they can test for TDS.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

k, no longer using the strips, lol!

Aquarium Gallery - RCS with cracked shell here's a link to a pic of the RCS with the cracked shell. There's a big crack across her back and a smaller one above her tail.

Is there a way to test for TDS at home? (Really don't like going to that LFS anymore - I think they're tired of seeing me too, lol - and the only other one that could do that is almost an hour away.)


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I use a handheld TDS meter.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Cool. I'll have to look one of those up!

So, TDS is different than Nitrates...... wow, I thought I was getting a handle on all of this chemistry stuff, but now I'm not so sure... lol!

I just looked online and may be able to get one at the LFS near my place. What is the good range of TDS to have?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good question. Al my tanks test really high, but I'm dosing ferts 3x a week.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hmm. I'll have to look it up. I dose a liquid fert' once a week, so I'm hoping it's not too high.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

A tds meter measures the total dissolved elements in your water. Not needed to measure your ferts.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

susankat said:


> A tds meter measures the total dissolved elements in your water. Not needed to measure your ferts.


lol, I don't use it for that! I use it to read my RODI water (an indicator of when filters need to be changed). I was referring to what my tank would read if I tested it....which can be pretty damn high after a week of dosing ferts.


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Ya know I've never had all that stuff, and I don't tell others to buy hundreds of dollars of test equipment, unless maybe you have a high tech plant tank or special breeding...
Of course if money is no object, well buy everything  but for more complex stuff you can go to LFS or local water municipality.
I do have a copper test, actually had a heavy metals test kit when I was collecting and selling in the saltwater side of the hobby.
MHO is that somthing like the API master test kit is all you should need.

Another thought occurred to me... Do you remove the weights in the plants Shen you plant? The oxidation/ corrosion can be deadly in a small environment.
Or is there any other bare metal exposed in the tank?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I take all the metal and wool fibers off of the plants that I have - good thought though!

The only metal that goes in the tank is the 10" tweezers I use to feed the frogs and do tank maintenance. They are fairly new and stainless steel, so they aren't rusted. I don't leave them in the tank either.

My husband jokes and says that the cats are probably trying to sabotage the tank and put stuff in it at night, lol.


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## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Did some research on shrimp, and a found that ocaissionaly exoskeleton will crack like that due to a molt problem, and that berried shrimp won't molt and may crack.
Another common explanation for shrimp dying was age. If an order is placed for shrimp most are randomly scooped up, so your getting young and old. Unless if course your order came from a private breeder that separated out the shrimp.
Couple really good shrimp sites to check out, ad that's there main focus.

Also looking back over this thread... Didn't you say somewhere that the ph was shifting?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

TDS is actually pretty important when your are keeping shrimp. Especially if you want to breed them. It's not something that one normally thinks of. I would recommend to not have a TDS any higher than 200. Me personally however, would shoot for 150-175 range. TDS meters aren't expensive which is the good thing. But as Doc mentioned, I don't recommend people go out and buy this or that. It's all a matter a what you are looking to achieve.

As for the crack, it's a pretty blurry pic but seems to be pretty deep and beyond the Exo which makes me believe there may be a possible infection invovled. I've seen this before and actually was just discussed in another forum.

I would suppliment their diet with a high calcium feed like Ken's Veggie Sticks. You can even make your own invert food. My critters can't get enough of it.


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