# water level in overflow is low and sump level is high



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi,

I just set up a new 75 gallon tank with built-in overflow and a 20 gallon sump.

The sump has a Eheim 1060 (587 GPH) pump which is attached to the return via 5/8" hose. I basically forced the 5/8" hose onto the 3/4" bulkhead return plumbing.

The intake to the sump is 1" hose. Do I need to reduce the intake rate to make the water level higher in the overflow box? Is it normal for the overflow box to be this low (or for the level in the sump to be this high?). Or does it not really matter? I just noticed the tank makes a lot of noise when the tank is draining into a near-empty overflow. When I tried adding water it just ends up raising the level in the sump and that's it. My ceramic ring bio-media on both the middle and bottom shelves are completely submerged -- is OK (only if this is indeed a problem)

See pictures below.

Any comments/suggestions here are always greatly appreciated.

overflow too low (?)




sump too high (?)




I can tweak the flow to the intake by slightly adjusting the shutoff valve to throttle the flow...Is this the right way to approach this? However this scares me a bit as it means if something gets caught in there my tank will flood!!

Thanks,
-Zeke


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

Sounds like your overflow's drain pipe is too big for the return flow. Either you can reduce the size of your intake hose or increase your return flow rate which might give you more current then you wanted. The water level in the main display will stay the same and the water level in the overflow will adjust according to the draining/filling ratio.

I would recommend keeping the pipe bends to a minimum since it can slow the flow rate. In other words, keep the pipes straight as possible. I noticed alot of soft plumbing/tubing. Using PVC pipe will help keep pipes straight.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi Phil,

Thank you for the advice. I will look into correcting this tomorrow. 

What water level in the overflow box and sump should I be targeting? For the sump, should that middle shelf of ceramic biomedia be partially submerged / fully submerged or doesn't matter? For the overflow, I presume it should be an inch or two below the water line of the main tank to minimize noise? I'm thinking it's going to be easiest to slightly cut the flow on the intake .. e.g., try reducing it down to 3/4"...unless that ends up being too severe. Failing that I will try to reduce the length of the hose on the return pump or just redo it with PVC.

-Zeke


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## phil_n_fish (Nov 19, 2011)

Are you using a prefilter that is placed before the bio media? It will help keep your nitrate level down. The bad thing about this biomedia is that it likes to collect alot of organic matter and it ends up feeding the nitrating bacteria which can be an annoying thing to keep down in the future. 
But if it's all working out for you then you shouldn't change a thing lol. 

The water level is personal preference. I believe having exposed biomedia to the air increases the bio load due to the oxygen increasing the bacterias growth. 
But there will always be biofiltration as long as there is water movement. 
Just like you said, its about noise.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi Phil,

Yes, I'm using a prefilter on top of a drip tray on the top shelf. 

I'll keep that in mind when I'm tweaking the water level. 

Thank you!
-Zeke


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You could always just lower the water level in the tank, it will lower the level in the sump. I'm not sure I would want too much water in the overflow.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Perhaps this is a solution in search of a problem.  Maybe it's better to just leave it as-is if you don't see anything overtly wrong. 

I was just pointing out that the way it works now, if I add more water to the tank it just passes through the overflow to the sump, the level at the overflow box stays the same.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Here's a link to the durso standpipe;aka mega overflow kit.Originally provided by reefing madness many overflow people use these to "silence" overflows,but will also raise water level in overflow box(part of how it quiets it).
Durso Standpipes
You are also correct that additional water goes to sump and changing water level in aquarim is not feasible(it has to go over the "overflow")
looks good!
A simple "table" made out of pvc pipe can support (elavate) your tower to raise portion of bio media out of water.Also as Phil said loops or sags in feed line will slow or affect flow and create gurgling(suction noise)


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Easy fix. Your return pump doesn't have high enough flow rate after head loss. Yiur 1" overflow will take 600gph, your return pump is already to small, then factor in head loss and its way under sized.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

How much flow would you say I'm getting out of this old Eheim 1060 with 5/8" hose? It's odd that they claim 37 liter/min (587gph) when it seems like it's a 5/8" output connector on the pump? The tank return hole is 3/4" so if I could upgrade to 3/4" hose from the pump to the return that would be ideal. I'm just not sure i'm going to get much benefit since the threads/connector on the output of the pump seem to be 5/8". Is anyone familiar with this exact pump?

I also don't want to buy a new pump if I don't have to, this one was free 

Am I also going to need additional flow in this tank (e.g., powerheads) for water circulation? I'm considering maybe 1 or 2 of the Koralia nanos 425gph powerheads. That said, I don't want to blow my fish around either though.

-Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Update:

Upon checking the specs of my pump online, it seems that the Eheim 1060 should have a 3/4" output not 5/8" inch. I'll double check the hoses + connectors tonight.

If that's the case I'll switch to 3/4" pipe/hose from 5/8". I think that would probably make up the difference. And will consider PVC pipe per Phil's suggestion.

-Zeke


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Look up the pump you have, find the specs, its still undersized for what yiur system should be running.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Why? I thought the general guideline was 5-10x turnover per hour, so for a 75 gallon tank doesn't that mean a 600GPH pump should be adequate? 600 / 75 = 8x turnover per hour. Even if you assume I get like 60% of the rated capacity due to media etc. that's 360gph, or ~5x turnover. A little on the low side but not outrageously low, especially if i add additional circulation pumps in the tank, right? Can't I just add a powerhead or two? I'm thinking about 1-2 of the koralia 425GPH nanos. 

Also I thought flow rate was less important for sump setups than conventional filtration systems like canisters, due to superior biological filtration?

What pump would you recommend for this 75 gallon tank? The tank is predrilled for 3/4" return plumbing.

I don't want to spend any more than I have to on this...I know quality pumps aren't cheap. Of course if I do end up buying another pump, this one could serve as a backup / used to pump water out of the tank during water changes. Using a python for water changes is pretty slow.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I use a MAG (danner supreme) 9.5 on my 75 reef with built in overflow.They cost about $95 .Works great completely un throttled.Check into durso pipe to raise and silence your overflow box.


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## MASTERSURGEON04 (Oct 4, 2011)

you need a durso stampipe and a mag 7 pump but a durso stampipe is a most on a pre drile or reef ready tank thist the only way you control you water lavel in the sump


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

zwanged said:


> Why? I thought the general guideline was 5-10x turnover per hour, so for a 75 gallon tank doesn't that mean a 600GPH pump should be adequate? 600 / 75 = 8x turnover per hour. Even if you assume I get like 60% of the rated capacity due to media etc. that's 360gph, or ~5x turnover. A little on the low side but not outrageously low, especially if i add additional circulation pumps in the tank, right? Can't I just add a powerhead or two? I'm thinking about 1-2 of the koralia 425GPH nanos.
> 
> Also I thought flow rate was less important for sump setups than conventional filtration systems like canisters, due to superior biological filtration?
> 
> ...


Your correct in theory. But your running a 1" pvc pipe line. That means your system will flow 600gph into the sump. If you do not return that amount then your overflow will constantly be waiting to be filled by your return pump thats behind. Not a huge deal though. It works either way, just not to capacity.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I see. I just did a quick test to estimate the flow through my pump into a tank of similar height over about the same approximate length of plumbing. I get about 480GPH +/- 10% if i just stick the pump in a bucket and calculate the flow rate out of the bucket. About what I expected. Unless I use a pump that actually gets > 600GPH then my overflow box will stay low. I could add a durso pipe or something similar to solve this problem as well. Although I don't really see it as a major issue, this just reduces my capacity by a few gallons. On the other hand, this noisy overflow sound is starting to annoy the crap out of me...


-Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hey,

I ordered a 20 inch durso standpipe. That should solve the problem. I am going to ditch the prefilter (cylindrical sponges on a meshy pipe) I put on the intake to the sump.

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> I use a MAG (danner supreme) 9.5 on my 75 reef with built in overflow.They cost about $95 .Works great completely un throttled.Check into durso pipe to raise and silence your overflow box.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Got rid of the pipe bends and switched to from 5/8" hose to 3/4" hose (not really convinced this helped much with flow, but can't hurt). See the clear hose on the return pump below. Doesn't get much straighter than that...hopefully I don't have to mess with it too much 



-Zeke




phil_n_fish said:


> Sounds like your overflow's drain pipe is too big for the return flow. Either you can reduce the size of your intake hose or increase your return flow rate which might give you more current then you wanted. The water level in the main display will stay the same and the water level in the overflow will adjust according to the draining/filling ratio.
> 
> I would recommend keeping the pipe bends to a minimum since it can slow the flow rate. In other words, keep the pipes straight as possible. I noticed alot of soft plumbing/tubing. Using PVC pipe will help keep pipes straight.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Eheim 1060- flow rate sheet


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Nice to know my empirical measurements are in line the specs  The vertical distance from the pump to the top of the tank is roughly 3.5 feet. 

-Zeke



Reefing Madness said:


> Eheim 1060- flow rate sheet
> View attachment 1805


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Update: I'm going to replace the Eheim 1060 with a Mag 9.5 -- I want the higher flow rate...Or maybe some similar pump by Eheim which is quieter? Noise is important to me.

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Mags are good pumps.I use the 9.5 on my 75 reef full out.I can't testify if they're quiet or not since there is about 550 gallons some using air and a mag 24(not quiet) running my 180 all in the same location.The mag 24 is definately not quiet(2400 GPH minus about 8' head).Your fish will enjoy more flow.I didn't see durso pipe in pic although it seemed to the smae old pic.You're using durso you said you ordered aye?


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Yep still using the durso. Works like a charm!

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Mags are good pumps.I use the 9.5 on my 75 reef full out.I can't testify if they're quiet or not since there is about 550 gallons some using air and a mag 24(not quiet) running my 180 all in the same location.The mag 24 is definately not quiet(2400 GPH minus about 8' head).Your fish will enjoy more flow.I didn't see durso pipe in pic although it seemed to the smae old pic.You're using durso you said you ordered aye?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I like the Quiet One Pumos. Been using then for years.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Okay -- if the mag 9.5 doesn't work out for me i'll return it for one of them quiet ones . 



Reefing Madness said:


> I like the Quiet One Pumos. Been using then for years.


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