# The Thread of many questions...lol



## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

When testing your water. I notice that if you hold the tube near the chart, to get a reading, you get your reading of say 8.0 for ph. Now if you actually hold it ON the chart, it's a little darker, like 8.2..... which do you do? Just off the chart or touching the chart?

My water is very cloudy. I have a Marineland Penguin Bio-wheel 350. What can I put into the filter along with my normal filter media to clear it up?

I'm doing a fishless cycle on my son's tank. I started 2 weeks ago and the ammonia still hasn't gone down. Shouldn't it have gone down somewhat by now? still at 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates...The only change was my ph from about 8.1 to 7.8

When I get fish for my tanks, How do I tell the female guppies from the male guppies and the same for the yellow lab cichlids?


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

PBrods said:


> When testing your water. I notice that if you hold the tube near the chart, to get a reading, you get your reading of say 8.0 for ph. Now if you actually hold it ON the chart, it's a little darker, like 8.2..... which do you do? Just off the chart or touching the chart?
> 
> My water is very cloudy. I have a Marineland Penguin Bio-wheel 350. What can I put into the filter along with my normal filter media to clear it up?
> 
> ...



For your first question, I hold the tube OFF the chart.. because the chart will change the way you observe the color of the liquid inside the tube.

for your second question, my tank was exactly cloudy like yours. I have a REALLY strong filter for my small 10 Gallon, and it still managed to get cloudy. It was cloudy for 2-3 weeks and now its CRYSTAL clear. Just give it time, it's part of your NITROGEN cycle.. Even if your tank is established, sometimes it will still get cloudy due to any disturbances to the gravel, or the filter media or even moving ANY decoration in the tank! Water is very delicate.

If you're doing a fishless cycle, it can take up to 3 months for it to complete. I ALWAYS do fishless cycles until the last recent tank i set up. The last tank i set up i mistakenly didn't complete the fishless cycle and my poor fish suffered through one. A cycle with fish can take half the time it will for a fishless cycle.

Female guppies are ALWAYS bigger than males. Not only that, but their stomach is bigger than the males' stomach. Female guppies have a figure of a "thumbs up, to the side" like if you're hitchhiking. Males are more slim and straight. Not only that, but the seller should be able to distinguish both genders.


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## Monkey87 (Jan 11, 2012)

off the chart...


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I always read just off the chart.

What is your "normal filter media?" Most have a sponge and biomax at least. You could try adding carbon, as this tends to get rid of any odours in the water as well has help to clear it up. You could also try filter wool - it works to "polish" the water and makes it more clear.

For the ammonia problem, I was always told to dose daily until your nitrites start to show.... I got my info' from jrman83 (I was having uber troubles with my cycle.) I followed his directions, and had a quickly cycled tank.

Female guppies are more "dull" coloured (definitely not as bright as the males) and normally have a smaller tail fin as well, where the males are brightly coloured with much larger tail fins.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

Skeeter91 said:


> for your second question, my tank was exactly cloudy like yours. I have a REALLY strong filter for my small 10 Gallon, and it still managed to get cloudy. It was cloudy for 2-3 weeks and now its CRYSTAL clear. Just give it time, it's part of your NITROGEN cycle.. Even if your tank is established, sometimes it will still get cloudy due to any disturbances to the gravel, or the filter media or even moving ANY decoration in the tank! Water is very delicate.


My filter is rated for a 70 gallon tank and mine is a 46. It's not part of the nitrogen cycle as I have not started it in this tank yet.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

holly12 said:


> I always read just off the chart.
> 
> What is your "normal filter media?" Most have a sponge and biomax at least. You could try adding carbon, as this tends to get rid of any odours in the water as well has help to clear it up. You could also try filter wool - it works to "polish" the water and makes it more clear.
> 
> For the ammonia problem, I was always told to dose daily until your nitrites start to show.... I got my info' from jrman83 (I was having uber troubles with my cycle.) I followed his directions, and had a quickly cycled tank.


The filter media is what came with the filter blue filter connected to carbon.

I can't dose daily as I gave it the original dose at 4ppm and it has stayed there for 2 weeks. It will stall the cycle if I dose daily and it up higher...


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Try adding some Biomax (it gives more surface area for good bacteria to grow) and maybe some filter wool if you can fit it in. The biomax can be cut out of the mesh net and just dropped in loosely if you can't fit another media bag in. I did that for one of my filters.

I thought that daily dosing would stall my cycle and raise the ammonia too much, but it actually kick started things. Another member on here said the same thing - about adding more will stall the cycle and put too much in the water - but they followed Jrman's instructions and it worked for them too. Drop him a PM, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to help you out.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Skeeter91 said:


> If you're doing a fishless cycle, it can take up to 3 months for it to complete. I ALWAYS do fishless cycles until the last recent tank i set up. The last tank i set up i mistakenly didn't complete the fishless cycle and my poor fish suffered through one. A cycle with fish can take half the time it will for a fishless cycle.


I think you have this backward. Fish cycles usually take much longer than a fishless. If you have been taking 3 months to do a fishless cycle you must be doing something wrong.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

^ Speak of the devil! JUST the man I was looking for/talking about! Were your ears burning Ben? XD


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I think you have this backward. Fish cycles usually take much longer than a fishless. If you have been taking 3 months to do a fishless cycle you must be doing something wrong.


So if my ammonia is at 4ppm, should I be adding more ammonia every day?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

PBrods said:


> So if my ammonia is at 4ppm, should I be adding more ammonia every day?


When I do a fishless cycle is not so much about testing as it would be if you had fish to protect and save. 

I dose until I get to 4ppm, slowly increasing the amount and testing to see where it is. Once I have figured out how much it takes to get the tank there I dose that everyday until I see nitrites show. Once they are present, reduce your doses to half and every other day. The only thing I am testing for after about 4-5 days is nitrites....I don't worry about what the ammonia is doing. As the nitrites increase, ammonia has to be dropping.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

PBrods said:


> 1. which do you do? Just off the chart or touching the chart?
> 
> 2. My water is very cloudy. I have a Marineland Penguin Bio-wheel 350. What can I put into the filter along with my normal filter media to clear it up?
> 
> ...


1. I do just off the chart, under a white light (like a daylight fluorescent or something).

2&3. You might be experiencing a bacteria bloom, i.e. the nitrifying bacteria that wants to scarf your ammonia is setting up shop and you will soon see the ammonia concentration drop in conjunction with a nitrite spike. Continue dosing ammonia as the concentration drops to get it to hover as close to 4 ppm as possible - gotta keep those bacteria happy! As for your filter, I would do the entry layer some filter floss/filter wool/sponge (whatever you call it), next layer or two some ceramic bio media in a mesh filter bag. Don't forget to wash the media before adding it to your filter!

4. Females of many species are larger and more drab, in my experience.

Hope this helps!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

PBrods said:


> When testing your water. I notice that if you hold the tube near the chart, to get a reading, you get your reading of say 8.0 for ph. Now if you actually hold it ON the chart, it's a little darker, like 8.2..... which do you do? Just off the chart or touching the chart?


I hold up against the white on the card. For some reason it seems to work better if you flip the card upside down. The big thing is "normal" lighting. Holding up in the sunlight or bright light in your room throws off your result because the brighter light fades darkers colors. Believe even the instructions state to read the results under normal lighting. It does help.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> I think you have this backward. Fish cycles usually take much longer than a fishless. If you have been taking 3 months to do a fishless cycle you must be doing something wrong.


While this may be true with a planted cycle you can add fish at 1 week and have no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes. then later the nitrates drop down as the bacteria build up.

So it may take longer but you can actually add fish earlier with less stress to the fish.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> While this may be true with a planted cycle you can add fish at 1 week and have no ammonia nor nitrIte spikes. then later the nitrates drop down as the bacteria build up.
> 
> So it may take longer but you can actually add fish earlier with less stress to the fish.
> 
> ...


No kidding....I can add fish from day one as soon as there is enough to cover his head with water, if that is what I wanted to do. No need to wait for any period. If I don't mnd risking the fish. A discus owner would not start a tank this way....they will cycle them first - planted or not. Not knocking your idea, but it is a moot point with me. If you want fish right away, add plants. If you would rather not risk them (for any reason) then go fishless. Even without plants, the length of time you take to stock your tanks would likely see very little spikes.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> No kidding....I can add fish from day one as soon as there is enough to cover his head with water, if that is what I wanted to do. No need to wait for any period. If I don't mnd risking the fish. A discus owner would not start a tank this way....they will cycle them first - planted or not. Not knocking your idea, but it is a moot point with me. If you want fish right away, add plants. If you would rather not risk them (for any reason) then go fishless. Even without plants, the length of time you take to stock your tanks would likely see very little spikes.


Understand.

For people reading this thread, IMHO it is important *to wait a week after planting* vrs the adding fish right away. That way the plants condition the environment and establish themselves. I have added fish right away but only by using dechlor. So I don't recommend that process.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

And also for anyone reading....if you're using tap water and there is chlorine/chloramine in your water, ALWAYS add dechlor.


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## Skeeter91 (Dec 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I think you have this backward. Fish cycles usually take much longer than a fishless. If you have been taking 3 months to do a fishless cycle you must be doing something wrong.


Yes I got it backwards my bad. Typing on my iPad is hard to see and type


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Beeen! Pretty sure the test instructions say to hold the vial away from the chart but in front of the white part. Have you been reading your results wrong all these years?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

holly12 said:


> Beeen! Pretty sure the test instructions say to hold the vial away from the chart but in front of the white part. Have you been reading your results wrong all these years?


Hooollllllyyyy! Maybe the Canadian instructions read differently than the English ones. Maybe you should re-read them.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

holly12 said:


> Beeen! Pretty sure the test instructions say to hold the vial away from the chart but in front of the white part. Have you been reading your results wrong all these years?


Hooollllllyyyy! Maybe the Canadian instructions read differently than the English ones. You should re-read them.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> When I do a fishless cycle is not so much about testing as it would be if you had fish to protect and save.
> 
> I dose until I get to 4ppm, slowly increasing the amount and testing to see where it is. Once I have figured out how much it takes to get the tank there I dose that everyday until I see nitrites show. Once they are present, reduce your doses to half and every other day. The only thing I am testing for after about 4-5 days is nitrites....I don't worry about what the ammonia is doing. As the nitrites increase, ammonia has to be dropping.



So is the sticky on here WRONG??? It says " The goal here is to get the level up to 3-5ppm. If after testing your levels fall in this range that is great.
Now just sit back and do nothing for 72 hours.Test your ammonia levels at least once every 24 hours. Once they begin to drop add the appropriate amount of ammonia to bring the levels back up to 3-5ppm.
Now that the ammonia levels have begun to drop it is time to pull out your nitrite test kit and begin monitoring both the ammonia and nitrite levels. Again testing should be done at least once every 24 hours. Keep dosing ammonia to maintain adequate levels (3-5ppm).

At some point your nitrites will peak at around 5ppm. At this time I recommend cutting your ammonia dosage by 50% and reduce the frequency of dosing to every other day. Monitor the ammonia levels closely! To high of a level may stall the cycle and prevent the colonization of bacteria. When nitrites begin to decline begin testing for nitrates. When nitrates begin to register you are getting close to completion. Continue to dose ammonia at the reduced level and monitor closely.


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

If I go another 2 weeks with nothing happening, I'll just throw a bunch of fish in and let THEM do the cycle for me and then flush them after the cycle and put the good fish in....SOUND GOOD?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hahahah Ben! You crack me up!

I went and checked my tests.....and as much as I HATE to say this........you are right. You're supposed to hold it right up to the card. I could swear I read somewhere not to do that though...... so then, my Nitrates from the tap are probably more like 140ppm than 80ppm! XD


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not saying the sticky is wrong so much. Just telling you how I do it. I got my method from another source and it worked best for me.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

holly12 said:


> Hahahah Ben! You crack me up!
> 
> I went and checked my tests.....and as much as I HATE to say this........you are right. You're supposed to hold it right up to the card. I could swear I read somewhere not to do that though...... so then, my Nitrates from the tap are probably more like 140ppm than 80ppm! XD


mmmmmmhmmmmmm


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> mmmmmmhmmmmmm


*r2 I lol'd!


Now, was that for, "yeah, I know I'm right" or "yeah, you're nitrates are probably higher?" Lol. (Oh, and Mike had a good laugh at your response too!) XD I'm never going to live this down am I?


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

2 1/2 weeks and still no nitrites...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

PBrods said:


> 2 1/2 weeks and still no nitrites...


You must not have followed my method?


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## PBrods (Dec 10, 2011)

I thought that I saw nitrites in both tanks yesterday...Today confirms it. It's slight, but there! How long does it normally take to cycle from when you start getting nitrite readings?


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

cycling generally takes 1 month, but it can vary and can finish sooner or later. Most people see results in 4 weeks - 8 weeks.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

PBrods said:


> I thought that I saw nitrites in both tanks yesterday...Today confirms it. It's slight, but there! How long does it normally take to cycle from when you start getting nitrite readings?


It varies. How often have you been dosing ammonia?


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## Hooperman42 (Oct 23, 2011)

I moved from a 20 long to a 55g. I used all the old filter media from my smaller marine land and added two new marinelandl 350's to tje new tank. So had one very well used bio wheel in the 20 with a smaller marineland..and now 4 in the 55. Had two filter cartridges and now eight with the dual 350's. Put in new gravel and then put the old gravel on top of it. Also used to use those little fluval marshmallows in my smaller filter and moved those too along with some rock and ornamentation. Added safe start, some of the old water, filled it using stress coat of course or prime.. And added the fish. *All within one hour*. Been six months now never lost a fish or had a bacterial cloud and all the tests are perfect...did it all in one *hour*! Call me crazy..a cycled tank without a cycle. Or at least a new one that is. Guess it was all the old bio material that supported all of that extra space and water. Even I am amazed. It's still crystal clear. I do weekly water changes etc of course starting week one. Tossed those marshmallows out too after a few weeks. I have loaches, cories and a very happy betta cruising the upstairs. I use four fluval sponges to keep the water from being disturbed from the powerful filters for the betta and have an air stone that flows up under the sponges so it puts in some oxygen without disturbing the top calmness that the betta likes. And then I obey my feeding rules.. Only two pellets a day for The betta and veggie and other sinking wafers for the basement guys. I use dual 48 inch t5's to light the place and some nice blue moonlight LEDs for evening ......and then it's all lights out at bedtime.

Works for me.


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