# Cycling a Second Tank



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

Well, I said I wasn't going to do it, but I think I'm going to end up getting an even bigger tank... Right now I have a 5 gallon tank with one male betta and two female sunburst platies. I got the platies two days ago, and though they were fine at first, the betta keeps chasing them. I don't think the problem is overcrowding, but I want them to have enough space just in case... 

My question is this: If I get a 10 gallon tank (that's the most I have room for right now), can I just transfer the filter, gravel, and decorations to it? The filter I have now works for up to 15 gallons, so it should be able to handle an additional 5. If I put in the filter, gravel, decorations, and all the water, will it already be cycled? Since that's half of the water already, I was wondering if adding 5 more gallons would start the cycle all over again. 

If the betta settles down, and if the platies don't seem stressed, then I might not get the new tank. Still, I'd like to know how to cycle the second one if I decide to do away with the 5 gallon tank.


----------



## GuppyNGoldfish (Mar 28, 2011)

I would definately get the platies out of the 5 gallon. Most bacteria sticks to the gravel and decorations, so you can move most of the gravel and decorations into the new tank, but I would add new water. Put a filter on it and let it cycle the water for a couple days before you add the fish. I don't suggest putting the betta in with the platies. So I would keep the betta in the 5 gallon, and use the 10 gallon as a platy tank.


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

GuppyNGoldfish said:


> I would definately get the platies out of the 5 gallon. Most bacteria sticks to the gravel and decorations, so you can move most of the gravel and decorations into the new tank, but I would add new water. Put a filter on it and let it cycle the water for a couple days before you add the fish. I don't suggest putting the betta in with the platies. So I would keep the betta in the 5 gallon, and use the 10 gallon as a platy tank.


That's a problem, because I don't have room for two tanks. Do you think I should return the platies to the store? The main issue is that the betta would bite himself when he was alone, but I can't stay in my bedroom all day, you know? He needs someone to keep him company, and a mirror just wasn't working. I got platies because they were peaceful and large enough that he couldn't hurt them, but now I'm not so sure...

If I take them back to the store, is there another fish that might work out better with him? Maybe something large enough to scare him off without being aggressive towards him? I just don't know what to do... Right now, I've got him in his original cup floating in the tank because he wouldn't leave them alone. He had been getting along with them, and now all of a sudden he chases them all the time. Someone told me that if I put him in the cup for a while as sort of a time out, then he'll learn not to be aggressive. I'm skeptical about it, though. Then again, it's only been two days. Should I wait to see how they will get along?

Sorry for piling on all these questions, but judging by your tank stats, you seem to know a lot about which fish to mix! I just need some advice... I'm really worried about all of my fish. I'll return the platies if I have to, since it wouldn't be fair to the betta to move him to a small bowl. That would basically be confirming that he's being replaced by the platies! Then again, I don't want the platies to suffer just to keep the betta from biting his own tail. And if I take the platies back, what do I do about his loneliness?


----------



## GuppyNGoldfish (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't know why the betta would bite his own tail, Ive never seen mine do that. My betta is in a 1.5 gallon tank by himself. Don't keep a mirror by the tank, because he will just see his own reflection and constantly flare and ram the tank wall, and this will just stress him out. He is trying to fight or kill the platies most likely because bettas are an aggressive fish and like to be kept along, you can get a divider for the tank so the betta has 1 gallon and the platies 4 gallons, but platies really need at least a 10 gallon. He should get used to the tank after a week or so.


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

GuppyNGoldfish said:


> I don't know why the betta would bite his own tail, Ive never seen mine do that. My betta is in a 1.5 gallon tank by himself. Don't keep a mirror by the tank, because he will just see his own reflection and constantly flare and ram the tank wall, and this will just stress him out. He is trying to fight or kill the platies most likely because bettas are an aggressive fish and like to be kept along, you can get a divider for the tank so the betta has 1 gallon and the platies 4 gallons, but platies really need at least a 10 gallon. He should get used to the tank after a week or so.


That's the thing, he never flares at his reflection in a mirror. Sometimes he flares at his reflection in the tank walls, but he ignores mirrors completely. We just held one up a few times to see if he'd react aggressively. I read that bettas like to flare sometimes for exercise. 

Do you think he'd do better if we returned the platies, divided the tank in half, and got a female betta? I know bettas usually prefer to be alone, but his tail biting only happens when he is alone. That's the thing. Since introducing the platies, he hasn't bitten his tail and it's been healing. But I don't want to sacrifice their well-being for his. Maybe another betta, kept separately, would help with his loneliness without harming anyone?


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You can take the platies back, get the 10 gal, divide that in half and have 2 male bettas or a male and female seperated. Use a divider that has holes in it so you can have water flow. But I wouldn't divide it and put platies on one side as they would need the 10 gal just for them.


----------



## GuppyNGoldfish (Mar 28, 2011)

I think your betta is actually flaring too much and shredding his tail, mine did the same thing when I first got it. He wasn't used to the reflective walls in the tank and he constantly flared and ended up ripping his tail. It took a couple weeks, but the tail healed itself.


----------



## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

If you get the divider, make sure it goes all the way to the top, since some Bettas will actually jump over it. O___O

If it's not opaque then you probably won't have a problem.


----------



## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

MissPisces said:


> Well, I said I wasn't going to do it, but I think I'm going to end up getting an even bigger tank... Right now I have a 5 gallon tank with one male betta and two female sunburst platies. I got the platies two days ago, and though they were fine at first, the betta keeps chasing them. I don't think the problem is overcrowding, but I want them to have enough space just in case...
> 
> My question is this: If I get a 10 gallon tank (that's the most I have room for right now), can I just transfer the filter, gravel, and decorations to it? The filter I have now works for up to 15 gallons, so it should be able to handle an additional 5. If I put in the filter, gravel, decorations, and all the water, will it already be cycled? Since that's half of the water already, I was wondering if adding 5 more gallons would start the cycle all over again.
> 
> If the betta settles down, and if the platies don't seem stressed, then I might not get the new tank. Still, I'd like to know how to cycle the second one if I decide to do away with the 5 gallon tank.


Forget the divider you don;t need it, your 3 fish will do fine in a 10 gallon tank. in my 10 gallon I have a Male Betta a small pleco some ghost shrimp and Bamboo shrimp and they all do just fine. To get to what you were asking yes your tank will recycle just not as long as you already have a good start on your bacteria... I also have a 29 gallon with a Betta and all those fish get along just fine..


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

GuppyNGoldfish said:


> I think your betta is actually flaring too much and shredding his tail, mine did the same thing when I first got it. He wasn't used to the reflective walls in the tank and he constantly flared and ended up ripping his tail. It took a couple weeks, but the tail healed itself.


The thing is, he never really flared at himself. Even when we hold a mirror up to the tank, he doesn't flare. He flares occasionally, but not a lot at all. It's weird!


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> Forget the divider you don;t need it, your 3 fish will do fine in a 10 gallon tank. in my 10 gallon I have a Male Betta a small pleco some ghost shrimp and Bamboo shrimp and they all do just fine. To get to what you were asking yes your tank will recycle just not as long as you already have a good start on your bacteria... I also have a 29 gallon with a Betta and all those fish get along just fine..


This tank's been set up for two months, so it should have a good bacterial colony, right? I'm seriously considering the 10 gallon, since I think they can hold on until I buy it and set it up. He still chases the platies, but he did a lot better today. I wonder if he's just getting used to them or establishing pecking order or something? This is the first time I've had more than one fish in a tank, so I have no idea what normal behavior is aside from what I read about.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have moved tanks, which is essentially the same thing you are doing, and never saw any trace of a mini-cycle. It may cycle, but if the initial tank has already completed the cycle, the mini-cycle will probably last less than a day or you may never even see any evidence that it occurred. It would be different if your stocking level was higher.


----------



## Sweetgreenleaf1369 (Jun 24, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> I have moved tanks, which is essentially the same thing you are doing, and never saw any trace of a mini-cycle. It may cycle, but if the initial tank has already completed the cycle, the mini-cycle will probably last less than a day or you may never even see any evidence that it occurred. It would be different if your stocking level was higher.


*i/a**h/b*cool-dude*cool-dude


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Bettas vary a lot in personality. Some bettas will kill any tank mates they can, others are fine with any peaceful fish (not another male betta). Some don't like bright colored fish but are fine with duller fish like cory cats. Keep a careful eye on the platies to make sure they are not getting too stressed, he may let up a bit with the chasing after a few days or he may get worse it's hard to tell. Although a larger tank might help it might not make a difference, if a betta is a really aggressive one it will try to kill the fish in almost any sized tank.

As for the fin biting, bettas sometimes do bite their own tails but make sure you have excluded other possible causes first. Have you seen him bite his own tail? Could he be snagging himself on a sharp decoration, like a plastic plant? Could it be fin rot? Fin rot is likely if he was in the tank through cycling. Most often bettas bite their own tails in transport rather than when settled in their own tanks, but it's not impossible.

Bettas are happy as lone fish but they still enjoy 'entertainment'. The other fish are not so much company as something to occupy him. You could try making his tank interesting in other ways if tank mates are not working out. Bettas enjoy live plants and areas to explore. Try breaking up the space of the tank with driftwood, rocks or other decor (make sure it's safe to use in the aquarium). If you don't mind that they might get eaten ghost shrimp would be great. He might leave them alone or he could spend hrs hunting them which would give him something to do.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I didn't mention cycling a new tank but I agree with what others have said, if you transfer all your stuff over you'll have a very 'mini' cycle or no cycle at all.

5 gallons is a bit small to keep tank mates with a betta so I'd either keep him on his own or upgrade to the 10 gallon.

I found this link, it might help
Betta Splendens - Half Moon, Double Tail, Crown Tail Bettas - Tail-Biting -- Why do bettas do it, and is it genetic?


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

snail said:


> Bettas vary a lot in personality. Some bettas will kill any tank mates they can, others are fine with any peaceful fish (not another male betta). Some don't like bright colored fish but are fine with duller fish like cory cats. Keep a careful eye on the platies to make sure they are not getting too stressed, he may let up a bit with the chasing after a few days or he may get worse it's hard to tell. Although a larger tank might help it might not make a difference, if a betta is a really aggressive one it will try to kill the fish in almost any sized tank.
> 
> As for the fin biting, bettas sometimes do bite their own tails but make sure you have excluded other possible causes first. Have you seen him bite his own tail? Could he be snagging himself on a sharp decoration, like a plastic plant? Could it be fin rot? Fin rot is likely if he was in the tank through cycling. Most often bettas bite their own tails in transport rather than when settled in their own tanks, but it's not impossible.
> 
> Bettas are happy as lone fish but they still enjoy 'entertainment'. The other fish are not so much company as something to occupy him. You could try making his tank interesting in other ways if tank mates are not working out. Bettas enjoy live plants and areas to explore. Try breaking up the space of the tank with driftwood, rocks or other decor (make sure it's safe to use in the aquarium). If you don't mind that they might get eaten ghost shrimp would be great. He might leave them alone or he could spend hrs hunting them which would give him something to do.


Good ideas! I hadn't thought of ghost shrimp... If the platies don't work out, I'll try those instead. This morning, they all seem to be getting along a bit better, so we'll see. 

He had been biting his own tail for a month. I'm pretty sure it wasn't fin rot, because 1) the edges weren't white or black, 2) they were bloody every time they got worse, 3) chunks were torn out only on the longest part of his fin, and not on his pectoral fins, 4) they would heal for a few days, and then start diminishing again. 

We tried rearranging his tank a couple of times, adding and subtracting decorations, making sure that all decorations were smooth, and we did add two live plants. We tried keeping a night light on at night, and keeping him in almost complete darkness. We tried different food, frequent water changes, and putting a mirror up to the tank (just holding it up, not constantly)...  Nothing worked. At all... The only clue is that he only bites when I'm not in the room. When school starts, I'm taking all my classes online so I'll be here with him a LOT, but for now, I can't be in the room all the time because of other things I have to do. Since introducing the platies, he hasn't bitten his tail at all and it's starting to heal. 

Apparantly he needs someone in there, but you're right; if he can't get along with the platies, I'll get ghost shrimp and see how he does with them. Thanks for all your advice!


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

snail said:


> I didn't mention cycling a new tank but I agree with what others have said, if you transfer all your stuff over you'll have a very 'mini' cycle or no cycle at all.
> 
> 5 gallons is a bit small to keep tank mates with a betta so I'd either keep him on his own or upgrade to the 10 gallon.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I really am leaning towards getting the new tank (more and more all the time), since it seems they won't be too stressed by the move. I was worried about cycling. I mean, Isabella and Marron just got here, and I don't want to switch them to a cycling tank just three days after bringing them home in the first place! 

I've read that article before, but thanks! It was one of the most helpful ones.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Hope it works out, keep us posted because it's an interesting case if he is biting his own tail. Do you have any pics of him? I'm not really a betta expert at all, just trying to think of anything that might help. majerah is the betta guru on her, maybe she'll pop up to give advice. In fact it would be a good idea to post about tail biting it in the beta forum and see if anyone else has had personal experience with this problem.


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

snail said:


> Hope it works out, keep us posted because it's an interesting case if he is biting his own tail. Do you have any pics of him? I'm not really a betta expert at all, just trying to think of anything that might help. majerah is the betta guru on her, maybe she'll pop up to give advice. In fact it would be a good idea to post about tail biting it in the beta forum and see if anyone else has had personal experience with this problem.


OK, I'll report my observations and if anything changes. Thanks to you and everyone else who gave me advice, I feel a bit calmer about all this!  I'll try to get a picture of his tail and post it. He's a bit hard to capture on camera, because as soon as I come close to the tank he swims directly towards me and won't let me get a side-view of him! It's cute, but inconvenient when I want to take a picture! 

I'll post a separate thread about his tail biting if I can get a picture. It's healing pretty well. Like I said, there are no white or black edges. There is one long tear in the fin that showed up several days ago, but it's not infected so far. Most of his tail is intact, but he's chewed off quite a bit of the caudal fin. There's maybe a bit over half left. I'm hoping that he can make a full recovery and never slide back into the habit again! Still, I'll grab my camera and try to get a good shot.


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

Oh, and this may sound like a dumb question... But does anyone know if there is a journal page on this forum? Someplace I can record happenings in my tank on a day-to-day basis so that people can see what's going on if they want to, but it doesn't bump other threads back? I don't want to keep posting new threads, because I have so many questions and there's a lot going on with my tank right now, and I feel like I'm sort of being bothersome by posting question after question! I've seen some other people posting daily journal threads, but I can't find the correct forum for them...


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I think you can just start a thread in the betta forum. You don't need to start new threads, just post every day on the same thread. Put the title of your thread as something like 'my betta journal'. Or check out Freshwater Tank Builds if you want it to be more about the tank in general.


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

snail said:


> I think you can just start a thread in the betta forum. You don't need to start new threads, just post every day on the same thread. Put the title of your thread as something like 'my betta journal'. Or check out Freshwater Tank Builds if you want it to be more about the tank in general.


OK, I'll do that. Thanks!


----------



## MissPisces (Jun 8, 2011)

snail said:


> Hope it works out, keep us posted because it's an interesting case if he is biting his own tail. Do you have any pics of him? I'm not really a betta expert at all, just trying to think of anything that might help. majerah is the betta guru on her, maybe she'll pop up to give advice. In fact it would be a good idea to post about tail biting it in the beta forum and see if anyone else has had personal experience with this problem.


Here's a photo of the betta, if you want to see what damage he's caused...  It's healing OK. I'm still on the lookout for infection, though. I have a couple of pictures uploaded to my gallery of what he used to look like, but I can embed another one if you want. 








[/url][/IMG]


----------

