# My fish died within 1 day of getting them



## Tom17

Hi,

I'm definately what you would call a newbie to fish keeping. We got a 10gallon tank a few months back for my 2yr olds room. However, we did not get around to stocking it until this weekend just gone.

I did a small amount of research before doing this, but somehow glossed over the whole nitrogen cycle thing. The pet shop had previously told me what to do in preparation for the fish, i.e. set it up a day or two before getting the fish...

It was a 10 gallon starter kit from Tetra that included a water pump/filter that hangs on the bacl. I also purchased a tetra water heater & thermometer as that was not included.

So on Saturday, we cleaned it (water only, no cleaning agents), put in some gravel that was washed, filled it up with treated (Tetra AquaSafe) water, got the water pump, heater and filter going and left it for the day. When I checked on Sunday morning, it was up to temperature (25c) so we gave it the thumbs up for fish later in the day.

We went back to the fish shop, explained what we had done and they said it was all good. Great! So they suggested 3 fish to start the tank and then slowly add more, 2 at a time, after the tank is matured. We would go to about 8 fish I think. Maybe 7.

We got:
A Neon Spotted Molly
A Blue Guppy
and a Mixed Mickey Mouse Platy.

The guppy and platy were tiny, like 0.5". The Molly was maybe an inch?

I got them home and sat the bags in our aquarium for about 30 mins. In the meantime, I washed some lava rock that we bought at the same time (using some old aquarium water) and decorated the tank with it and some fake plants (Will go to real plants when we have more experience). Then I transferred the fish to another container, all together, still in their original water. I added some of our aquarium water to their water to help them acclimatise.

After about 15 mins there, I transferred them to our tank and added 1 pinch of tropical flakes. I since learned that I should not add the flakes yet, but if you read on, I don't think this was an issue.

Last night I learned all about the nitrogen cycle, cycling tanks, fishless cycling etc. It was too late to change my plans and do a fishless cycle so I was just hoping they would be OK. Everything pointed to the fact that they should be OK - not overcrowded, not too many fish to start a tank etc etc.

This morning, about 12 hours later, I went in to get my son and we watched the fish. The guppy was acting strangely, swimming along the surface, into the water stream and getting blown back down the tank by it. It looked dubious to me. Just before I left for work, I checked in again and the guppy was now swimming all upside down and randomly. I was sure he would not make it.

Now, I was worried that somehow the ammonia levels had spiked too soon. It didn't seem realistic to me that the levels would spike so quickly. I did not put in much food, it is not over-stocked. Still, I was guessing that the bigger Molly would cope at least. I was sure the Guppy would be dead when I got home. I was researching this all day, reading many posts about "my fish died" and it was always something obvious like ammonia spikes or not changing the water out. None of this seemed relevant to me yet.

I got thinking maybe I treated the water wrong and it was full of chorine. This did not seem likely as the water was treated and it also sat for a day, gassing off its chlorine. Maybe it was the water pH.

Anyway, I got home and sure enough, the guppy was dead. But so was the Molly! The platy didn't look too healthy either. I was now certain that I had new tank syndrome despite it being only 24 hours in. So I took the 2 dead fish, a water sample and the poorly looking Platy, back to the fish shop. We ran some water tests and to our surprise, the water was fine. No cholrine, good pH (I forget the value), no Nitrates or Nitrites and somewhere between 0 and 0.5ppm ammonia. This should not be enough to kill the fish and higher levels are briefly expected during the initial cycling, from what I understand. It also indicates that the feeding I gave them 24h earlier did not cause any extreme ammonia spikes.

So they were stumped. They asked me some questions, like was it well water(no) and is the water from the pump/filter breaking the water surface and aerating it (yes). They said "sorry, don't know why they died, it's not normal".

So if it wasn't the water, why has my first ever attempt at keeping fish been a failure? 

He told me the Platy looked like he had some life left in him and would not take him back. So I re-acclimatised him to the aquarium temperature by placing the bag back in the tank and then released him into the tank about 20 mins after. It was dark and I think I saw him go straight down but I am not sure. I hope he isn't dead already as well.

If he is alive, I will let the tank cycle with just him. I got a testing kit so I can monitor the levels.

If he's dead... why??

Sorry about the long post, I tried to give as much detail as possible to save having to back & forth with questions & answers. If you need to know anything else though, just ask. I can't remember much more, it's only been 24h 

My wife and I both feel awful having basically killed two poor little fish like this. It was not a part of our plan 

Thanks,

Tom...


----------



## Scuff

This may be a case of bad stock from the store; my assumption is further based on the fact that they wouldn't take the platy back, because he 'looked like he had some life left in him'. They should have just taken it back and given you a new platy, since being caught, bagged up, transported all over creation, and finally dumped back in the tank is very stressful on the fish, and could very well make it sick and/or kill it.

I wouldn't blame yourself. It doesn't sound like you did anything too terribly wrong, and it's quite likely that you were just the victim of poor quality livestock. It may be time to re-evaluate using that LFS, if you have others in your area.


----------



## NeonShark666

Fish don't like to be "shocked" by sudden changes in environmental conditions. Test your water and the water at your dealers and see if there are any significant differences. Take a sample of your water and take it to your dealer and have it tested. What could have kiiled your fish could be a sudden ph change, temperature change, hardness change, or nitrate change. Next time use a resealable plastic bad and slowly add your aquarium water to the bag over a few hours before releasing your fish. I also recommend you initially set your tank up with plants and let it set for a week or two before adding fish. If you follow this procedure, chemical additives shouldn't be needed. If your tap water has a lot of Chlorine in it, put it in a container and espose it to the air ffor a few hours.


----------



## Tom17

Scuff said:


> This may be a case of bad stock from the store; my assumption is further based on the fact that they wouldn't take the platy back, because he 'looked like he had some life left in him'. They should have just taken it back and given you a new platy, since being caught, bagged up, transported all over creation, and finally dumped back in the tank is very stressful on the fish, and could very well make it sick and/or kill it.
> 
> I wouldn't blame yourself. It doesn't sound like you did anything too terribly wrong, and it's quite likely that you were just the victim of poor quality livestock. It may be time to re-evaluate using that LFS, if you have others in your area.


Hopefully it wasn't stress, but if it was, it would explain everything. If it was a bad batch of fish, surely they would have tankfulls of dead fish by now? Or at least tons of returns (And maybe they do, who knows). The fish were from different tanks.

I will try getting some fish from PetSmart once the tank is fully cycled. I did think that going to a bigger more specialist fish shop (Big Als) would mean less potential problems like this. Oh well.



NeonShark666 said:


> Fish don't like to be "shocked" by sudden changes in environmental conditions. Test your water and the water at your dealers and see if there are any significant differences. Take a sample of your water and take it to your dealer and have it tested. What could have kiiled your fish could be a sudden ph change, temperature change, hardness change, or nitrate change. Next time use a resealable plastic bad and slowly add your aquarium water to the bag over a few hours before releasing your fish. I also recommend you initially set your tank up with plants and let it set for a week or two before adding fish. If you follow this procedure, chemical additives shouldn't be needed. If your tap water has a lot of Chlorine in it, put it in a container and espose it to the air ffor a few hours.


I did my best to reduce temperature shock by placing the bags in the water for a few hours as mentioned in my original post. I added the aquarium water to theirs slowly as suggested too. I also checked the water at the LFS as mentioned, and it was zero nitrates,nitrites and chlorine, only .25ppm ammonia and the pH was good according to them.

I'm guessing stress/bad batch like Scuff said.

So i'll be going into the room in a few mins and we'll see if the Platy is dead or alive. Right now, it's Schroedingers Platy - in a quantum state of both dead and alive, until it is observed 

Thanks for the replies!

Tom...


----------



## jrman83

Try this procedure next time you bring fish home. It is the most recognized way of acclimating fish. http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html

My losses a few days from the fish store have greatly decreased.


----------



## Tom17

OK, so the Platy croaked it too. Damn.


----------



## pringleringel

Welcome to the forums!

I don't think those 3 fish spiked the ammonia to levels high enough to kill them that quick.

It sounds like they either were shocked from not being acclimated or they were just bad stock BUT, you may have left them in the bag for too long in the tank. 15 minutes is long enough to adjust the temp in the bag and from what I understand after that amount of time the aquarium water will leech the O2 out of the bag. I don't know if that is true or not but a possibility. After 15 minutes you want to start adding in 1/4 cup of tank water every 5 mintes for 3 times or drip acclimating them like posted above. If you can get the water parameters of the tank the fish come out of and the ph and hardness is very close to what your tank is I don't think it is really necessary to drip them. Just get the water to temp for 15 minutes, dump them into a net and pop them in the tank.

Look good at the tanks at your LFS. Make sure there are no dead or lethargic fish in the tanks. Put your hand up top of the aquarium and rattle the top a little pretending you are going to feed them. They should swim up anticipating food. If they don't get excited I would avoid them.

Most importantly, get a good test kit and check your water daily until you know your tank is cycled. Do not trust test strips, you will want a good liquid kit such as the API Master Test Kit. The strips are not accurate at all. Also, if you are going to cycle the tank with the fish in it I would get either Tetra Safe Start or SuperBac to kick start it if you do not have access to some used filter media. I used the SuperBac and it worked very well. There are a lot of good reports on the TSS also but some people will tell you not to use any of it... I say DO.


----------



## Tom17

Thanks for thar Pringleringel.

I did indeed get the test strips - and thats what they used at the LFS too. Damn, that's $35 wasted.

I guess I should have added my water to their bags more slowly. I was actually told I do not need to bother with this at all, so I thought the little that I did must have helped.

A friend just mentioned flouride. Could that have been a problem? None of the tests I have read about mention it...

Anyway, I have no fish left now, so I will continue cycling the tank fishless. RIP little fishies 

Thanks,

Tom...


----------



## jrman83

pringleringel said:


> If you can get the water parameters of the tank the fish come out of and the ph and hardness is very close to what your tank is I don't think it is really necessary to drip them. Just get the water to temp for 15 minutes, dump them into a net and pop them in the tank.
> 
> Look good at the tanks at your LFS. Make sure there are no dead or lethargic fish in the tanks. Put your hand up top of the aquarium and rattle the top a little pretending you are going to feed them. They should swim up anticipating food. If they don't get excited I would avoid them.


Not sure how you would ever know, without testing. I have yet to see anyone at the lfs testing away at their tanks or if they would even allow it. If you asked them what their water was like, chances are unless you gotthe person who did the test you wouldn't get an accurate answer. Close enough? For who? You or the fish? Point is, drip acclimation is THE safest method. If you care enough for the money you just spent or for the fish you bought with it, you'll take the time to do it to give the fish its best chance to survive in your water. A lot of people (I used to be one of them) think it is a whole lot of effort, especially if you were just doing it for one $1.99 fish. I just do it as a matter of practice now and takes me 5min to setup and then I come back two hours later and net the fish out. It's just too easy not to do. Anyone who doesn't do it, should NOT be frustrated that they just lost the fish they got from the fish store two days ago.

I'm not sure on the tap on the top of the tank method. Most new fish I get, or nearly all really, have to learn to come to the top to get fed. Not sure why that is. Just don't see how that determines health of a fish considering most have just been transported hundreds of miles and under severe stress - usually. Most of the fish I buy act differently once they are in my tank a few days than they did in the store. Just saying....


----------



## 8878

The shop really told you not to bother acclimating your fish to your new tank by adding some water to the bag they came in? Wow, I would never shop from them again, try to find a place that specializes in fish.


----------



## jrman83

I'm with you.


----------



## pringleringel

jrman83 said:


> Not sure how you would ever know, without testing. I have yet to see anyone at the lfs testing away at their tanks or if they would even allow it. If you asked them what their water was like, chances are unless you gotthe person who did the test you wouldn't get an accurate answer. I'm just saying, if you could get them to test it so you would know.. I know that the water in the tanks at my LFS is identical to my water here, same PH, same hardness.. Drip acclimating them is not necessary. Now if I bought some fish 100 miles away that might be a different story all together. Close enough? For who? You or the fish? Point is, drip acclimation is THE safest method. Maybe, but if there is ammonia building up in the bag and you are dripping water with a much higher PH then what is in the bag it can make the ammonia spike to highly toxic levels, if my parameters are very close to the stores I would chance acclimating them to the tank temp and popping them in, unless it's some known to be super fragile fish. If you care enough for the money you just spent or for the fish you bought with it, you'll take the time to do it to give the fish its best chance to survive in your water. A lot of people (I used to be one of them) think it is a whole lot of effort, especially if you were just doing it for one $1.99 fish. I just do it as a matter of practice now and takes me 5min to setup and then I come back two hours later and net the fish out. It's just too easy not to do. Anyone who doesn't do it, should NOT be frustrated that they just lost the fish they got from the fish store two days ago.
> 
> I'm not sure on the tap on the top of the tank method. Most new fish I get, or nearly all really, have to learn to come to the top to get fed. Try it, it works. The fish have been getting fed from the top since they were fry.. If they don't come up or show noticeable excitement, they are stressed. Maybe not Plecos and bottom feeders, but as a general rule, try it. I do it in every store I go into since I have learned about that and it's a pretty good indicator.  Not sure why that is. Just don't see how that determines health of a fish considering most have just been transported hundreds of miles and under severe stress - usually. Would you buy fish that are under severe stress? I wouldn't want to.. I'd be looking for normal acting fish, however if you are shopping in a place that has a very high turnover rate you are probably going to have more occurances of stressed fish. Most of the fish I buy act differently once they are in my tank a few days than they did in the store. Just saying....


 All in all I'm sure your experience outweighs mine and you are probably right about dripping them being the best way. Then again, the chance of getting someone who is new to the hobby, who doesn't even have their tank cycled yet, to go through all of those steps and understand what they are doing is probably slim. Not saying it's not good to teach them either, but getting a few fish in there and getting the tank cycled is probably priority #1. Then go for a better selection of fish and worry more about acclimating the very best way because the fish in an uncycled tank are going to go through a rough ride unless the person is 100% commited to do daily water changes for 8 weeks...


----------



## jrman83

Drip acclimation during cycling may be a moot point, but could be worthy if it is the first fish going in the tank. 

You mention treating fragile fish differently. I don't see it as any difference. The one difference I would do is maybe drip acclimate beyond 2hrs. I prefer to treat every fish the same. It is good that you know what the water is at your lfs - always good to know info. However, unless you are testing your water before you depart for the store and then testing their water just before your fish are pulled out, then you really can't safely say the water is the same. Some fish are less temperamental to even minor differences. It's 5min of prep time for piece of mind. Like I said before, it's just too easy not to do every time. This method covers all possibilities of environmental differences, not just the ones that are perceived or assumed.


----------



## Tom17

Right, so I took the Platy back this morning. All they said was "Your tank is probably contaminated. There are no tests for contaminants, dump the water, clean out the tank and start again.". I was really careful when I set the tank up on Saturday to not introduce contaminants. It was cleaned with plain tap water only. My hands were cleaned first with tap water. The way he talked about "contaminants from your hand" made it sound like you'd kill a tank just by putting your hand in.

Anyway, I would love to dump this place and go to a specialst fish store, except that this place *is* the specialist fish store. It's called Big Als and it's very impressive (to me). To go somewhere else means going somewhere like PetSmart which is by no means a specialist fish shop.

Intersting about the drip feeding, I will certainly do that next time. To me, the comfort of the fish is more important than speedy introduction. I actually thought I was being more careful than needed according to the LFS. I think I followed the Tetra instuctions that came with the tank actually. I will re-read them tonight to be sure.

Cost, effort and learning(I have learned loads already) are not the things putting me off continuing with this hobby right now, it's the hardship on the fish. I know they may be 'only fish' but that's not how I roll. I already feel bad enough about my first three fish having a 100% mortality rate.

Dejected...


----------



## hank

Thank you for this interesting thread. I love when members disagree with each other.
Who is right and who is wrong? One of the factors of learning is making mistakes! I know for sure the student will not make this mistake twice.


----------



## pringleringel

hank said:


> Thank you for this interesting thread. I love when members disagree with each other.
> Who is right and who is wrong? One of the factors of learning is making mistakes! I know for sure the student will not make this mistake twice.


 Hell I'm no professional... I don't disagree at all, I base my information off of experience and there are many here with a whole lot more experience then what I have... 

I don't buy my fish to just throw them in the tank to have them die either.... There are a lot of views on how fish should be acclimated. Just do a search. I've never tried drip-acclimating but I probably will next time.

Tom if you are worried about your fish that much you should cycle your tank fishless before adding any more. It will be a lot quicker then getting one cycled with fish and a lot less work. Then when you add your fish you wont have to worry about them dying from being subject to the cycling process.


----------



## beaslbob

I would recommend you research the "beaslbob build" threads in the plant forum here.

basically you start the tank with lotsa live plants and let the plants condition the tank before adding fish.

I think you will be amazed at how well that works and how easy the tank is to maintain.

my .02


----------



## hank

Pringleringel, my post was not generated for you! I didn't use your name or anybody else. It sounded like a general statement to me. If I hurt your feelings in any way, I'm truly sorry. From the*old dude


----------



## pringleringel

hank said:


> Pringleringel, my post was not generated for you! I didn't use your name or anybody else. It sounded like a general statement to me. If I hurt your feelings in any way, I'm truly sorry. From the*old dude



Ohhhh no!!!! I wasn't really trying to defend myself in my post. Sorry you took it that way.. I just like to talk lol.

I'm not trying to argue, disagree, or offend anyone and I am not offended.


----------



## Tom17

pringleringel said:


> Then when you add your fish you wont have to worry about them dying from being subject to the cycling process.


That's the thing see... According to the water test, the cycling process is not what killed them. It's this unknown that is bothering me as I want to learn from my mistakes. If the ammonia was high or something then it would have all made sense.

As it is, I have nothing to learn from. Well, I say that, but I will try the drip method, and adding them to a matured tank. But what I did *should* have worked and that's where I'm left confused.

I guess now that I will never know why they died. All I can do now is to do as much as possible to help prevent this next time 

Tom...


----------



## jrman83

Tom17 said:


> That's the thing see... According to the water test, the cycling process is not what killed them. It's this unknown that is bothering me as I want to learn from my mistakes. If the ammonia was high or something then it would have all made sense.
> 
> As it is, I have nothing to learn from. Well, I say that, but I will try the drip method, and adding them to a matured tank. But what I did *should* have worked and that's where I'm left confused.
> 
> I guess now that I will never know why they died. All I can do now is to do as much as possible to help prevent this next time
> 
> Tom...


I understand. I have lost fish even after doing all I felt I could do. Even doing all you should do, fish can/will still die. If you're new to this, I would say it won't be your last mystery, lol.

Is the tank new? Did it sit somewhere for a while or come from a previous owner?

Oh and FWIW, I never felt like there was any disagreement in the previous discussion.


----------



## Tom17

New tank, set up one day before the fish went in as per the LFS guidelines. I won't be doing that again 

Oh and I didn't see any real disagreement either. But then I am used to seeing pretty heavy arguing online so I guess i'm immune to it all


----------



## pringleringel

There's _probably_ one of two things that killed the fish. They either got shocked from your tank water PH/Alkalinity being much different then the LFS's water or they were just unhealthy to begin with and the shock from netting and transporting them done them in.

I like to get fish from a store that uses local breeders They are few and far between but they are out there. Then you know they have been handled minimaly. Fish from Petco and similar stores have been shipped multiple times, from a breeder overseas to an exporter then to an importer then to distributors then to Petco and finally when you get them they are mega stressed out. 

Don't be hard on yourself over it. You are showing the initiative to figure out the problem and making sure it doesn't happen again. That's the best you can do.


----------



## Tom17

OK, i'll try to go easy on myself 

So I got home tonight (Tank is now 3 days old, biological matter (fish & food) was introduced 2 days ago). I did a quick water test and the ammonia is spiking now. The fish wouldn't have made it anyway as it's up in the 3ppm range - although maybe not if I had done the water change last night (If there were living fish, I would have done).

It's also gotten a little cloudy and I heard this is a normal part of the cycle. The nitrates are still zero so if they go up in the next few days, I will know my bacterial colonies are developing.

Now, the question is, do I throw it all out and start again as suggested by my LFS (as they said it could be contaminated water) or do I leave it going as it is obviously cycling now. How real a risk is this contamination thing? No chemicals, other than the water treatment, were used in the preparation of this tank...


----------



## jrman83

Depends on your comfort level. The cycle isn't that far along and it wouldn't be much lost, as far as that goes. If you are fairly sure that nothing is in the tank.....


----------



## Tom17

Right then...

After the last fish died and got returned on Monday night, the following has happened.

Tuesday:
Shop told me the water may be infected and that I should clean it out. Tank was clear and smell free. The strip tests showed no Nitrites, Nitrates or chlorine. They showed 0.25ppm Ammonia. I decided to try to continue cycling this tank. I thought I would use the method of adding food as I do not have ammonia. I put some flakes in (though I didn't crush them up small which I later found out I should have done).

Wednesday: (Yesterday)
Started getting a bit cloudy and funky. Checked the levels again and no change in ammonia. Something is going on in there and it aint an ammonia build up... If I put in too much food the day before, would it be stinly already?

Thursday: (This morning)
Steeeheeeenk. It's also pretty cloudy. It smells so bad. I wonder what is going on. I brought a proper testing kit last night and used it this morning only to confirm the values that the strips gave me - i.e. ammonia is 0.25ppm nitrites/nitrates are 0-0. I also did pH which was 7.6 (Is this OK?)
So I decided this morning to do some water changing. I swapped out 50% of the water and blimey was there a lot of old food come out.

I noticed like 5 mins after I put fresh (treated) water in that it started getting cloudy again. You could see the clouds swirling around inside. I then missed my train to work so I went back and it was stinky again already so I did the 50% change again.

What could be going on in there?

I think I will fully clean it out and start again this weekend.


----------



## beaslbob

You tank is stinky and cloudy because there is not enough fast growing plants to keep up with the nutirents.

I would stop adding the flakes and add all the anacharis and vals you can get in there. then just let the tank set with 6-8 hours of light and see if it clears up in a few days. If not kill the lights until it does clear up.

Once you go through that process, the tank will be balanced out and much easier to maintain.

still just 

my .02


----------



## holly12

Tom17 said:


> Right, so I took the Platy back this morning. All they said was "Your tank is probably contaminated. There are no tests for contaminants, dump the water, clean out the tank and start again.". I was really careful when I set the tank up on Saturday to not introduce contaminants. It was cleaned with plain tap water only. My hands were cleaned first with tap water. The way he talked about "contaminants from your hand" made it sound like you'd kill a tank just by putting your hand in.


Sounds like you cleaned your hands right, (no soap, no moisturizer)..... so that shouldn't have contaminate your tank. I have to stick my hands in my tank every other day when I feed my African Dwarf Frogs, (I feed them blood worms with 10 inch tweezers and my hands still end up in the tank), as well as when I do the weekly water change when I move some of the decor around to clean under it...... I know you're not _really_ supposed to put your hands in the tank, but as long as they don't have soap or moisturizers or perfumes on them..... you should be fine.

As for the smell in the tank - every _healthy_ tank I've ever had, has a "wet earth" smell to it. You know the smell of fresh, rich dark soil after it rains? That's what mine always smell like, and it usually means things are 'good to go'.

When my tank cycled, I put a few fish in to start, and one or two died. When I asked the LFS ppl what happened, they said that when you cycle a tank without fish it cycles, and when you add fish it kind of does another 'mini cycle', so that could be what spiked your ammonia...

Cloudy water is usually normal for a day or two after you set a new tank, and normally goes away once the cycling process starts.

I hope this helps and that this experience doesn't discourage you from the amazing experience of fish keeping!!


----------



## pringleringel

If you are going to cycle fishless I eould stop putting food in the tank and go get some ammonia, I believe you want it at 3ppm, .25 is too low. I think using food is a bad way to do it. why get all that mess in your tank when you can add a few drops of liquid....


----------



## Tom17

Well, the deed is done. The tank is empty, the gravel is out. I will wash everything down tonight/tomorrow with industrial bleach. Just kidding lol. I'll just use piping hot water on everything, including the filter media, incase any of the 'bad contaminants/bacteria' were hanging out. I am starting from scratch.

This time I will cycle fishless. I will put it in our room and move it to my sons room once it's established with fish. I will be going the ammonia drops route in all likelihood. I will also use real plants this time rather than fake ones as it sounds like they make life easier, not harder as I originally thought.

Any idea if there are issues with 'lava rock' as ornaments?

As for the smell, I dunno if it was just an earthy smell of something worse. My wife could not stand it and it had to go. If it was the normal smell, and I suspect it was not, then fish won't be for us.

I'm also wondering if our power filter is a good variety. It's tetra stuff, all came in a kit from Walmart. It has little filter cartridges that have a filter medium and contain activated charcoal. It also has a 'bio something' spongey filter that you do not change - I guess this is the breeding ground one. Since 'hanging out' more in my LFS, I have seen the filters with various bags of stuff which look like a much better breeding ground for the bacteria. Also I have heard the wheel ones are better due to the increased oxygen that the bacteria are exposed to. Maybe I am getting ahead of myself and should just stick to what I have for now 

I'll start building it up again tomorrow...

Thanks for all the advice everyone, maybe i'll get some fish and keep them alive in a couple of months 

Tom...


----------



## beaslbob

for plants i recommend lotsa anacharis and vals for fast growing plants to rapidily extablish the initial system. 

and some small potted types (cryps/small sowrds) and a few amazon sword (only 1 for tanks under 30g or so.) those for more long term blance and stability.

I also recommend peat moss with sand on top. Both from homedepot/lowes/garden supply stores. the peat is the canadian sphagum peat moss in large plastic bales with no fertz added. Put in the peat wet it then put in the sand on top. That way the sand will trap the peat to help keep the tank initially clean and clear. And som aquarium gravel on top for looks.

Plant the plants after adding the peat/sand/gravel but before filling the tank. then fill the tank with water poured over a dish. that will help prevent the initial sand storm/cloudiness.

sure you can use lava rocks.

best of luck.

my .02


----------

