# New Bully Fish



## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I know Im going to get some lecturing about the size of my tank and stocking but I do plan on upgrading size here soon, I have had a goldfish for about a month and added two Kissing Gouramis. One is docile and gets along with the Goldfish but the other is nipping at the Goldfish and the other one, Im not so worried about the docile Gourami but Im afraid the goldfish will get too stressed and die. 
Should I find the aggressive one a new home or will this pass as they get used to eachother?
Thanks,
WindySI


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't mix Goldfish and Topical Fish, their required environmental conditions are much different. Goldfish are coldwater (temp <70) fish while Tropical fish are warmwater (temp >70) fish. Warm water is unhealthy for Goldfish while cold water kills tropical fish.


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

The environment (like what neonshark mentioned) you're keeping the Kissing Gourami in could cause it to be aggressive. You didn't mention the size of your tank but hinted that the Kissing Gourami might not be in the appropriate size tank. So it could be feeling cramped which could cause aggression (and stress) but in general Gouramis can be territorial. Kissing Gouramis get their name because of how they lock lips with their own species. This is actually aggression to see who has more dominance. You also might have two male Kissing Gouramis which could cause aggression between those two. Each fish has it's own personality, you might have just got a more aggressive one. I suggest you research the needs for the Goldfish and Kissing Gourami. Then go from there. But the Goldfish and Kissing Gouramis need to be in two separate tanks. You could always take the more aggressive one back to your LFS, observe the Kissing Gourami tank for awhile and see if you can find one that might be less aggressive.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Kissing gouramis need huge tanks, as they, like goldfish, grow extremely large. The kissing is called lip-locking with other species - it's a form of fighting.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

The tank Is a 10 gallon and I Plan on upgrading here soon and also the water temp is on the edge for both. It tends to fluctuate between 70 to 72. A little warm for the goldfish but he's been happy in there for a while happily. I also went off the compatibility chart on liveaquaria.com Maybe the kissing gouarmis was an exception to the chart. Id like to switch it to a tropical tank but I've really come to like the goldfish he always comes to the side of the tank that I happen to be on and will watch me. He also comes up and rubs his back along my hand and arm if I have it in the water doing something


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Upgrading the tank to a bigger one is only half the issue. Gourami are warm water fish while goldies are cold water. You realy cant mix them. You need to upgrate to TWO larger tanks to be honest.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

hmm maybe ill try and give the goldfish away? this is a tough one, like i said both the liveaquaria chart and my pet shop guy said theyd work with goldfish. It is a Walmart Goldfish so I dont really expect him to live too long, not long after getting him he caught Ich but I treated him for it and since then hes actually been loosing scales. Should I let whatever happens happen?


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm not an expert with diseases so hopefully someone else can tell you what is causing that. (Or you can post about it in the disease part of the forum if you haven't already.) But I personally wouldn't take the advice of probably 99% of the employees at the big chain stores. You'll see from browsing the forum, they usually don't know what they are talking about and give bad advice. I'd suggest finding a locally owned FS and go there. They tend to know a lot about fish keeping and in my opinion, take better care of the fish and have better quality of fish. But to be completely safe, do your research before purchasing any fish for your tanks. And I looked at Freshwater & Brackish Compatibility Chart, look at the chart again VERY closely. The Fantail Goldfish and Gourami are right next to each so I see how you could get confused. The chart says Fantails and Fantails are Yes and Fantail and Gourami are no. It's really just a bad chart design.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

The Gouramis were from a locally owned place, i think I may have just gotten a really aggressive one, I seperated him into an extremely large bowl this morning and hes actually been jumping out of the bowl. Im waiting to see if the other one might turn aggressive now that the other one is gone, but so far they seem to get along fine The Goldfish does seem a little bit afraid of the other one, but i think thats because he doesnt realize where the other is. normally the docile one is on one side of the tank and the aggressive one is on the other with the goldfish in the middle


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

Since it is a small tank, they've probably set up their territories on each side of the tank. So the Goldfish really doesn't have anywhere to go except in a Gourami's territory. Is the water in the bowl heated and do you have an oxygen going into the bowl? If not, that's why the Gourami might be trying to jump out. The temp isn't right for it and there is no oxygen in the bowl for the Gourami to breath. Therefore, if kept in that bowl for too long your Gourami will end up dying.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I just called the pet store and they said that theyd take the gourami back im just worried that the other one will turn aggressive


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

Well, either way the two fish (Goldfish & Kissing Gourami) need to be separated for them to have a good life. They don't have the same needs. If you can't get two bigger tanks right now. I'd take both Kissing Gouramis back and work on getting your tank to work for your Goldfish. Then try to upgrade your tank, for a Fantail Goldfish (that's what you have right?) you need at least a 29 gallon tank. Then you can work on getting another tank and getting a couple Kissing Gouramis later if that's what you wish to do.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Another thing is I wonder if the goldfish is a lost cause with him loosing scales and now being potentially hurt from the other fish


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

I don't know. If you're on the forum right now, you could jump in the chatroom and give a description of your goldfish. Susan is in the chatroom right now and she's good with diseases.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

No lectures from me as I tend to push limits and learn things the hard way so who am I to lecture you? That being said, I will still share my thoughts...

I’m convinced my own goldfish would not enjoy living in a 10-gallon tank with a territorial gouramis…that lifestyle would make my goldfish nervous and tax his immune system. I’m also convinced it’s unhealthy for an alpha-gouramis to relentlessly attempt and fail to secure the territory already given to an inquisitive goldfish who can't swim away. Beyond that…with the water and diet incompatibilities factored in…I’m looking for Plan B.

Good luck though…can’t blame you for trying. Been there.

What would your Goldfish do? :O)~


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

Ok so I've taken the troublemaker back to the store. Now I'd like to set up a larger tank. What can I put in a 30 gallon along with one kissing gourami. I want to do it right this time


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Kissers are big fish. They grow fast, as befits their status as a food fish. You have to figure on six inches soon, and if well cared for, up to eight inches (and heavy bodied - 8 long, 6 high, 2 wide)). In the wild, they get over a foot.
If you plan on having the fish for a long time, in a 30, it's his or her tank. A heavy bodied fish with a love of veggies like that is going to overwork your filtration.
Everyone disagrees with everyone - I would keep goldie in there, but realize it is short term. Each of those fish needs 30 gallons, and someone has to go in the long term. But there is a borderline crossover - a goldfish kept indoors will probably, depending where you live, have to adjust to 70f+ temps, and a Kissing Gourami can easily handle the very low 70s, although below about 68 it won't be happy. Kissing gouramis were very popular in the days before heated tanks - they can survive in rough conditions and at room temps.
The problem is they are both big fish that poop like horses, and your tank is going to be a nightmare to keep clean.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

What about him and some smallish fish? I really enjoy the brightly colored tropical ones


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

My opinion..I would keep fish that are the same size as the Kissing Gourami with it. Anything that can fit into the Kissing Gourami's mouth may become food. I've seen some people keep Angelfish with them but again Angelfish require a large amount of space.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

hmm, this is harder than I thought, I want lots of life and movement and color (but doesnt anyone?)


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## LaurenK (Mar 18, 2012)

If you want color and movement try looking at some of the schooling fish. A lot of them are very colorful and they're fun to watch. I have a Honey Gourami, two Dwarf Gouramis and they don't move very much. They have their territories in their tanks and will sometimes leave that area but not often. If you really like the Gourami species though, I'd check out the Dwarf Gouramis.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

the main reason that I went with the Gourami is because the compatibility chart at live aquaria told me it would be fine


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

windySI said:


> the main reason that I went with the Gourami is because the compatibility chart at live aquaria told me it would be fine


I bought a Powder Blue Tang from saltwaterfish.com because their site claims a 55 gallon tank is big enough...go figure. A typo maybe?

I personally don't have experience with Kissing Gouramis. But I've kept 2 Neon Blue Gouramis over the years and found that they got on well with tank mates smaller than them such as neon tetras, zebras, and platys. My Gouramis didn't attempt to eat their tank mates; but I suppose they could have. However my Gouramis did not play well with tank mates that were larger than them. The bigger tank mates actually made my Gouramis skittish and a little aggressive. I personally wouldn't hesitate to put Neon Blue Gouramis with smaller tank mates and see how it goes. I'd avoid Barbs though as I've seen them nip and harass even larger Gouramis to near death...unless there's a school of 6+ Barbs who can quarrel amongst themselves, I'd stay clear. That being said, I've always had more than one tank to work with so I could easily intervene and work with each fish until he found the tank/tank mates that were right for him. Surely fish selection must be more conservative with a single tank. Ideally, if I was going to start with a new small  freshwater set-up, I'd go with two 40 gallon tanks and a quarantine tank… and that's only if I wasn't planning to do angels. With angels, I'd have a 3rd tank. I lean towards a species tank for angels...again, these are my personal experiences alone and there are exceptions to every rule. Each fish regardless of species and instinct has his own personality, and sometimes that personality won’t support typical species behavior.

It's my opinion that if you want Gouramis in a tank with lots of movement and other colorful fish...you can have that...just be ready for the unexpected. Enjoy and learn along the way!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

You can get backed into a corner with a purchase. You bought a big fish, and it will eat small fish. I expect a bunch of small fish would be a better pick for you, but both the goldfish and the kissing gourami are challenging and limiting fish - not community species.
The small gouramis are, and thank your lucky stars you didn't get a giant gourami to turn into a wonderful, personality rich 7 pound monster on you. There are gourami species that stay under an inch, and others that others bigger than bass. If the wall chart suggested gouramis, it was being general - but it's like selling dogs and saying chihuahuas and mastiffs need the same care (although dogs are all the same species - gouramis aren't). 
I'd head for the library, take out a general, intro to aquariums book, make a nice cup of coffee and take a look through. A little relaxed reading time will save you a lot of stress and runs to the pet store after, and it'll give you a grounding in the bigger picture.
I find this forum really helpful, but for specific questions. The Internet is good if you have a focused question, but to get background, you need the books.


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## windySI (Mar 24, 2012)

I notice that, I think ill make another thread to plan for the next tank


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