# Cloudy Aquarium Problem



## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

I am not exactly new to having fish tanks, but I have only have had small ones in the past. I know about the nitrogen cycle and everything, but I seem to have a problem. 

I got a 20 gallon 3 weeks ago. I filled it with water and put my two tiger barbs from my small tank in it. I figured I could use them to cycle the tank. After 4 days that water started to get a little cloudy, so I did a 25% water change. All seemed to be going well with water changes and all until last week. My tank got so cloudy I can't even see the fish. (No joke. I'll post a picture later.) This didn't seem normal to me. I tested my water using the API Master kit, and the results turned out like this:

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 8

Wouldn't you think after 3 weeks the tank would be a little farther in the cycling process, and not so cloudy? I'm 99.9% sure nothing got in the tank that wasn't supposed to be there, but you can see the cloudiness move around in the tank from the filters current. It is so wierd. Does anyone have any ideas of what could be causing this and how to fix it? Any suggestions would be appriciated. Thanks a lot.

-Nicole


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Here is a picture of the tank now: http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o88/nicolewukber12/DSC02692.jpg


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## coool_brain (Jul 4, 2010)

i am not sure what the problem is:

may be bacteria bloom. if so it should settle and give you some nitrite and nitrate readings soon.

if you are using a strong light, it can be algae bloom. i think you are experienced enough to understand that.

that's all for now. keep us updated whatever happens.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Looks like bacteria bloom judging by the pics. If you pull out a glass of it, is it white or green (just to be certain).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

20gal, 3wks, only two fish...doesn't seem that far off where you may be in the cycle to me. Have you been getting anything for ammonia all along on your test kit, or is this the first time?


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Cloudy white = Bacterial Bloom
Cloudy green = Algal Bloom
Cloudy yellow/brown = dissolved organics or leeched tannins from driftwood


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Kill you lights untill the water clears (and stop adding food for a few days).


I would also add some fast growing plants to help consume the ammonia.


but IME killing the lights will always clear a cloudy tank.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Because with the light out...you look at it and say, "what cloudiness?"

LOL, just joking.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> Because with the light out...you look at it and say, "what cloudiness?"
> 
> LOL, just joking.


*r2

hopefully also when you turn the lights back on also.*old dude


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## Shiban (Sep 28, 2010)

Your cycle seems about right for the time. 
It took me 4/almost 5 weeks before I saw any Nitrite readings.
About week 2 I saw the bacteria bloom for a few days, then it cleared up with a water change.


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

The water is definately cloudy white, not green. My tank hardly gets any light because I never have the light on and it is not in the sun. It has been the same cloudy color since October 16th (and it is November 3rd today). My tank just doesn't seem to be cycling. The test results are still the same (Ammonia - .25ppm, Nitrites - 0ppm, Nitrates - 0ppm, pH - 8). I have been doing a small (under 25%) water change one a week. I don't know what is happening, and my tank has been "cycling" for a month and a week. Any ideas?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your tank may stay cloudy until the day the cycle is over.


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

How long does cycling usually take though? It's been a month and a week and the water conditions (ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates) haven't seemed to change at all.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Simple solution.Tell the tiger barbs to quit smoking,its bad for them.

Cycling speed depends on several things.Thats why most do fishless cycles,to speed it up.Itll clear.I second the addition of plants,itll help clear the water up.Get fast growing lowlight plants.Dwarf lillies and apongetons can be found at walmart as bulb forms on the shelf.I also have stuffed amazon swords in mine at setup.Some walmarts may have a few but your best bet is a petstore.I have seen a cycle take three months.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

One of mine took 6.5wks with fish.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

I've never had it take this long, but I've read it can take up to 8 weeks. It does seem like a long while for it to be cloudy, but it sure looks like a bacteria bloom. I'd go with beaslbob's idea and add the plants. I think he recommended Anacharis to me.

Definitely don't add chemicals.. it would slow/kill the nitrogen cycle and you would have to start over.


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## carpus (Oct 16, 2010)

I have got a new tank "cycling" in--about three weeks now--and I have had persistent cloudiness since I started. I went two weeks with a "fishless" cycle which was sorta cloudy, and when I started having nitrates I put in the fishes. I had a lot of plant matter rotting off, so there was lots of nitrogen, so I kept adding bio-filter bacteria, and that has been cloudy too.

Because I have inoculated the tank with bacteria several times, there are excess billions of them in the water column and that is what is likely going on for me. Until they settle down, attaching to media, glass, and filter components, I think we just put up with it. At least they are beneficials, and not a bunch of yucky bacteria making nasty smelling waste or something...

I found that Tetra Safestart actually makes NH3 ––> nitrates, unlike other compounds I tested. That might speed things up for you--but do nothing for the clouds.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

carpus said:


> I have got a new tank "cycling" in--about three weeks now--and I have had persistent cloudiness since I started. I went two weeks with a "fishless" cycle which was sorta cloudy, and when I started having nitrates I put in the fishes. I had a lot of plant matter rotting off, so there was lots of nitrogen, so I kept adding bio-filter bacteria, and that has been cloudy too.
> 
> Because I have inoculated the tank with bacteria several times, there are excess billions of them in the water column and that is what is likely going on for me. Until they settle down, attaching to media, glass, and filter components, I think we just put up with it. At least they are beneficials, and not a bunch of yucky bacteria making nasty smelling waste or something...
> 
> I found that Tetra Safestart actually makes NH3 ––> nitrates, unlike other compounds I tested. That might speed things up for you--but do nothing for the clouds.


Not sure why you would add fish in the middle of a fishless cycle? The presence of nitrates does not signify the end and you could still have a few weeks to go. The purpose of a fishless cycle is to save the fish and to speed the cycle by driving the values high immediately.

I would STOP adding anything and let your cycle run. Patience and it will happen.


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## carpus (Oct 16, 2010)

Not the middle, it is a functional bio-filter. When I added fish it was 0ppm/0ppm/20ppm, and has been consistently at those levels.
I added lots of existing filter media & existing substrate & plants & biofilter inoculant (mostly Tetra Safestart). Given how quickly that approach has worked for me before, I was surprised that it took two weeks, I guess big tanks can take longer. 

The only reason it is cloudy now is the decaying plant matter, and continued bacteria additions. I am continuing to add bugs as there is lots of surface in a big tank, and I want to get a good colonization early on.



jrman83 said:


> *Not sure why you would add fish in the middle of a fishless cycle? * The presence of nitrates does not signify the end and you could still have a few weeks to go. The purpose of a fishless cycle is to save the fish and to speed the cycle by driving the values high immediately.
> 
> I would STOP adding anything and let your cycle run. Patience and it will happen.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would stop adding bacteria additives unless you like a cloudy tank. Bulking up on the bacteria will not do anything unless you are going to provide the ammonia to feed it. Otherwise, it will just die off. I don't understand your approach, but if its working for you to each their own.


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## kweenbee2791 (Jul 21, 2010)

:goldfishersonally, I have never set up a brand new tank without putting something (an ornament or even a handful of gravel) from a tank that was already cycled. These items already contain what needs to be present for a healthy new tank to cycle. It is the easiest way to deal with the problem. Your problem is that it isn't cycled yet, without a doubt. Do a 75 percent water change, using water conditioner, of course. Go to your local pet store and try to obtain a handful of gravel from a fish tank, or buy an ornament in one of their tanks for shelf price - maybe you have a friend or family member with an established tank (something of that nature). Continue to do big water changes until the water doesn't cloud anymore. It's most likely ammonia. A suggestion is that you look into, if you haven't yet, ammonia in the freshwater aquarium. New tanks are especially prone! Also, ph testing will be needed after your water is stable. Usually, epsom salt is efficient to boost levels. You can look this topic up online as well. I would also be willing to give you advice. Good luck! I've been there!


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

I definately didn't plan on adding chemicals, but I will give the plant thing a try.

Oh, and I also forgot to say that I added all the gravel from my established 5 gallon to this tank when I first set it up (although that doesn't seem to be helping much).


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Does anyone have any suggestions for any plants? I just realized I can't have Anacharis
because it is considered an invasive species where I live.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

nicolewukber12 said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for any plants? I just realized I can't have Anacharis
> because it is considered an invasive species where I live.


vals are good. bacopa also but bacopa will grow out of the water.

cabamba can do well also.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Wisteria also. You almost cant kill it.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Wisteria also. You almost cant kill it.


I'll second the wisteria. Mine is doing very well. You can win some anacharis of off ebay or aquabid, just be sure you kill it if you shut down the tank. Invasive species can be really nasty.. speaking as a native of the south, where the kudzu is overtaking massive amounts of landscape.

I did my water tests myself last night, and one thing I will point out is that you should ready the directions carefully for each test. In mine, the API master kit for freshwater, some tests take a long time to shake and/or sit before the color comes in completely. If you rush it, you may not get the right reading at all.

Any luck with the cloudiness yet?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would look at the time you wait for the API test result as a debatable item, as it is very ambiguous. I go by the directions very literally. If it says wait 5min, then for me, 10min is not the color I'm concerned about. You have to have some limit if you go beyond the directions. Nitrate tests will change colors over 2-3 hours, or longer. Others are similar.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I would look at the time you wait for the API test result as a debatable item, as it is very ambiguous. I go by the directions very literally. If it says wait 5min, then for me, 10min is not the color I'm concerned about. You have to have some limit if you go beyond the directions. Nitrate tests will change colors over 2-3 hours, or longer. Others are similar.


I agree. I didn't mean to wait extra long, just to point out there *was* a wait in some of the tests, and to be sure the directions were being followed. Some may remember doing pH tests and not read the directions thinking they're all instantaneous.


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## labyrinth (Nov 7, 2010)

WOW thats bad . once at a party i took a poop in someones 50 gal full of fish and 4 days later it was clearer STILL then that!!!!

however i do eat alot of fiber though...


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I always make sure I wait exactly 5 minutes so the color turns out right. Nothing has seemed to change yet though. And the water is still cloudy.


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## cgskipper (Nov 15, 2010)

I have a similar situation with the 55 gal I'm setting up. I set it up last Friday with a bunch of plants and no fish. I used Prime to condition the water, added one dose of Flourish and have been doing daily doses of Flourish Excel and Stability.

My water has been a slight cloudy white since about day 2 - it's not too bad, I can see end-to-end on the 55 gal. I assume this is a bacterial bloom so it's a good sign and shows the tank is cycling? I tested yesterday with 0 ammonia, .25 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.

Tomorrow will be the 7th dose of Stability and I plan to do the first water change on Friday and quit the Stability then.

When should I start adding fish? Any other thoughts/suggestions?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

cgskipper said:


> I have a similar situation with the 55 gal I'm setting up. I set it up last Friday with a bunch of plants and no fish. I used Prime to condition the water, added one dose of Flourish and have been doing daily doses of Flourish Excel and Stability.
> 
> My water has been a slight cloudy white since about day 2 - it's not too bad, I can see end-to-end on the 55 gal. I assume this is a bacterial bloom so it's a good sign and shows the tank is cycling? I tested yesterday with 0 ammonia, .25 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.
> 
> ...


With my planted tanks I use no chemicals and let the plants condition the water, get rooted, and In control by waiting a week before adding fish. then I add a small amount of fish (like 1 for every 10g or so) and not add food for the second week. I then stock up and start very light feeding.


my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

cgskipper said:


> I have a similar situation with the 55 gal I'm setting up. I set it up last Friday with a bunch of plants and no fish. I used Prime to condition the water, added one dose of Flourish and have been doing daily doses of Flourish Excel and Stability.
> 
> My water has been a slight cloudy white since about day 2 - it's not too bad, I can see end-to-end on the 55 gal. I assume this is a bacterial bloom so it's a good sign and shows the tank is cycling? I tested yesterday with 0 ammonia, .25 nitrite, and 0 nitrate.
> 
> ...


Unless you have added a source of ammonia, your tank is not cycling. It can't start without it.


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## cgskipper (Nov 15, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Unless you have added a source of ammonia, your tank is not cycling. It can't start without it.


Shouldn't any plant decay and organic matter be enough to start the cycle?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

cgskipper said:


> Shouldn't any plant decay and organic matter be enough to start the cycle?


Sure, have you noticed decay in your plants? If they only been in there for 5 days I would assume they are still fairly healthy?


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## cgskipper (Nov 15, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Sure, have you noticed decay in your plants? If they only been in there for 5 days I would assume they are still fairly healthy?


There are some small bits breaking off here and there, most likely just from transportation and setup. Otherwise, they look healthy.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Look I know this is hard to understand but the ammonia->nitrIte->nitrates is the *bacerial* cycle. That uses bacteria to reduce dangerous ammonia to (eventually) much safer nitrates.

But with plants you get a completely different action. The plants themselves consume ammonia directly even if there is not a single bacteria to reduce the ammonia.

So with plants the tank is safe because the plants are removing the ammonia.

After all the key is preventing the ammonia through any actions possible.

Then the bacteria builds up and starts reducing the ammonia so the bcteria cycle procedes.

At what speed? not relevant. Fast or slow the plants/bacteria combination still result in the ammonia being consumed by the tank.

then as bacteria build up the plants are forced to consume the resulting nitrates for their nitrogen.

So with plants you get 0 ammonia, nitrItes with at most an initial nitrates spike. Then as the basteria build up nitrates drop down IME 3-6 weeks later.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

oh yea

my .02


almost forgot.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks to you, I fully understand about planted tanks and the cycle. Not meant in any bad way. 

But for this tank (cgskipper), no ammonia source has been introduced to the tank. So how then could the cycle have been going?


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## loveaquarium (Oct 29, 2010)

If the water is cloudy immediately, or within an hour or two of filling the tank, it's probably due to insufficiently washed gravel. Drain the tank and rinse the gravel until the water runs clear. That should resolve the problem.


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

So it's been over 2 months, and my tank is still cloudy. I will have a slight ammonia spike (.25 - .5 ppm), but after a few days it will go away and no nitrites are formed. Any ideas? I'm think of draining everything and starting over. Suggestions?


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

if you have another tank that you can temporarily put the fish in (if there's any in it), then I'd say go for it as you really have nothing to lose

a bacteria bloom should have fizzled out by now, and if it were an agae bloom, it would have died off by now (assuming you've kept the tank dark)

I did the same thing with my 10 gallon a long time ago when I had a stubborn algae bloom that I couldn't get to go away. almost a week long blackout didn't make a difference, but I had a few live plants in it and the week long blackout took its toll on them. so I just stripped the tank completely down, cleaned the entire tank and all of the gravel, and even scrubbed off the drift wood and rocks in the tank, and set it back up. I did however reuse the old filter in the HOB for a week afterwards after giving it a good rinse


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe something that I don't know about got in the tank? I think I'm going to wait a week or so until I have time to clean it out and start over. I have 3 tiger barbs and a fairly large pleco in it right now. I'll probably clean it over Christmas break or something and get a few more plants.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

nicolewukber12 said:


> So it's been over 2 months, and my tank is still cloudy. I will have a slight ammonia spike (.25 - .5 ppm), but after a few days it will go away and no nitrites are formed. Any ideas? I'm think of draining everything and starting over. Suggestions?


Without looking over the entire thread again.... You say 2 months, but how long have fish been in it? Have you tested your tap for ammonia? If you haven't tested in a while, test again. Are you doing weekly water changes and if you have, how much? What type of filtration are you running?


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Fish have been in it for 2 months. I tested the tap for ammonia and it is zero (we have well water, i don't know if that makes a difference). I have been testing once or twice a week with the last time I tested being yesterday (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, 8 pH). I have been doing weekly water changes of 5 gallons (25%), but one week I didn't change the water to see if it would have an affect (which it didn't seem to). I have 3 tiger barbs and a 5 inch pleco. I have the aquaclear 50 (for 20-50gallons).

At week 5, there was an ammonia spike up to .25ppm, but than it disapeared 4 days later when I tested (without water changes in between the testing times). There were never any nitrites or nitrates.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Last time I saw a tank like that was when I had a green water problem. A 9W UV sterilizer had my tank crystal clear in 2 days. They're pricey though.


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

I completely took everything out and started over, but the same thing happened but worse. Now there is this fungus looking stuff all growing all over the rocks. Everything (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) are still all zero, and the fish don't seem to be affected. I can't afford a UV Sterilizer right now (college student), but I am going to try to put micron filters into my Aqua Clear filter and see what happens. I'll post pictures soon. Does anyone know what might be happening. 

Maybe my well water is bad? But we have had it tested and I never had this problem with my old tank. I really don't know. My hornwarts and myrio red both got covered in this stuff and died, but my anubia, moss ball, java ferns, water wisteria, and water sprite are covered in it but still growing strong.


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## nicolewukber12 (Oct 18, 2010)

Well, I decided to start over again (for the 5th time - no exaggeration). This time I am keeping my last tiger barb (the other died) in a 5 gallon bucket while I do a fishless cycle. Hopefully this works...


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