# aquascape help needed



## JoeH

I am abt to set my 75g up this week will post a pic once i figure out the looks. wife got a background pic (i wanted to make a 3d but she must be obeyed to be happy) but it works out great to my theme I think. I even found some driftwood that matches the color of the background.

I dont know anything abt aquascaping so maybe someone can help me out here. I just got a 48 inch 2 tube light fixture. it says it can use t8 and t12 bulbs. I was planning on using 2 t8 grow lights. later I might add another fixture so I have a total of 4 32 watt grow bulbs but for now I will have to settle for 32 watt total.

why do people talk so much abt wattage per gallon? wattage is just electricity it doesnt mean crap IMO to lighting its lumens that you need to worry abt as that is the light intensity etc. or am i totally wrong here?


----------



## JoeH

ok a few pictures of the initial layout. I have a few "Rubble" rocks to add after they cool down from boiling them to kill any bacteria since I got them out of the river.

the wood in the back leaning against the glass matches in color to the backgrounds pretty good. I need to boil it once or twice yet then I will silicone them in various places on the back glass to give the illusion of a 3D background of roots. I wished I could have found better than just straight pieces but have to work with what I could find.


----------



## JoeH




----------



## JoeH

what I would like is some kind of ground cover like some dwarf hairy grass and some dwarf baby tears for a nice lawn and some kind of short moss on the rocks. and a few taller plants in the tank somewhere.

Basically I want the whole floor covered and medium and tall plants but dont want the tank cluttered with tons of tall plants I want iot to be conservative but enough plans to eat up a lot of nitrogen from the fish etc to reduce the amout of water changes


----------



## Marshall

The watt per gallon rule is just a rule of thumb, in reality you want to know the par rating of the lights at the substrate.

As for the wood, don't get to hung up on color, as it gets waterlogged, it will probably darken, also I wouldn't silicone them up against the glass, that might be a pain to clean later on, just jab them in the substrate leaning on the back. 

Other than that, I like that background image, I think I'll be looking for a similar one for my 29g, I find some of the other ones too 'busy'


----------



## jrman83

Bottom cover plants usually drive a higher need for lighting. Certainly the ones you mention may not do so well with just a 32 fixture. You will do better with a 4x fixture but still may not be enough. Dwarf baby tears will be difficult without T5HO and CO2. So then you get the higher light going and some plants will not do so well without ferts (higher light, higher need for nutrients) and then there goes the idea of less water changes.

If you want a planted tank to allow less water changes, wrong idea IMO, then you almost have to match the idea with low maintenance plants. Not to say you can't make it work, but thinking that ground cover plants are nitrogen hogs might mess up the plan.

I also hope you plan to have anchors under the wood? Some people drill slate for that kind of idea. Otherwise they will be moving a lot.


----------



## dalfed

With your fixture you will be limited to low light plants, you can still make a nice aquascape using these but your carpet plants are out. Try this site its a good start Tropical freshwater aquarium fish: Find plants


----------



## coralbandit

Just thought I'd add that I would read the lighting box again!Many lights can have multi ballast to run FROM different power sources(120-240),but I have not heard of one that ran different bulbs.T12 ballast only fire t12 bulbs,t8 ballast only fire t8 bulbs.I could be wrong and maybe only the fitting for the bulb pins itself is different,but I would double check.
And 1^ with jr and Dale,to grow plants better requires higher light ,higher ferts,maybe co2 and definately higher water changes.


----------



## Raymond S.

Fluorescent Aquarium Lighting: Zoo Med Ultra Sun Trichromatic Fluorescent Bulbs
Your best bet for plant growth if that fixture takes T8. I also would double check it before I bought bulbs.
Eventually you will notice that bulbs marked "Plant" will have less visible light.
I am skeptical of that stand. Is it actually an aquarium stand ?


----------



## jrman83

You can get 48" 6500k bulbs from Home Depot or Lowes. Nothing special about 6500k bulbs.


----------



## lonedove55

[quote
I am skeptical of that stand. Is it actually an aquarium stand ?[/quote

I also would be skeptical of using that as a stand...it appears the center brace/divider in the bottom area already looks bowed? Once the tank is filled, that will only get worse unless some more support is added... maybe in each corner as well as the center? Just my opinion, but 75 gallons of water plus weight of tank, you are looking at 700 pounds plus and that doesn't take into account for substrate, rock, etc.


----------



## JoeH

ok guys I got my new stand made aquarium on it and all my supplies finally came in. Now it is time to start my cycle but I am having a small problem maybe someone can help me with.

can someone explain to me how to prime this Ehim classic 600 I don't understand the instructions

oh and pic of the aquarium in place.


----------



## z1200

As far as aquascaping goes, try not to make your setup too uniform. In nature things grow or fall wherever they end up. If possible you could lay few pieces of wood sideways. Not saying there is anything wrong with your setup, just a tip. And for lower light carpet plants you could use some mosses if you find a way to keep it where you want it, aslo dwarf Sag. Is a pretty good low growing plant that spreads quickly.

Good luck and have fun. -Z


----------



## JoeH

thanks I have a few rocks and need to get my driftwood secured so it is not drifting lol i am waiting for the water to clear so I can take a pic though I have just a few smaller rocks atm they are kinda randomly piled with some on one side the aquarium up close to the front glass and on the other side back farther to give it some asymmetrical look.

right now my biggest problem is trying to figure out how to prime my filter. and the book talks abt when you clean out your filter and re-hook it back up to be sure you don't have any water in it. so that stopped me from filling it to help with the prime. I just had a brain fart and it hit me that is probably because of the chlorine's etc from the faucet so i am thinking since it is a new tank and I need to dechlorinate it anyways I should possibly be able to fill it to start the prime?


----------



## JoeH

Marshall said:


> The watt per gallon rule is just a rule of thumb, in reality you want to know the par rating of the lights at the substrate.
> 
> As for the wood, don't get to hung up on color, as it gets waterlogged, it will probably darken, also I wouldn't silicone them up against the glass, that might be a pain to clean later on, just jab them in the substrate leaning on the back.
> 
> Other than that, I like that background image, I think I'll be looking for a similar one for my 29g, I find some of the other ones too 'busy'


I got the background at petco the opposite side of it is blue ocean waters it was only like 1.99 a foot


----------



## JoeH

Thanks for all the help guys I got this critter going this morning. the water is clearing up pretty good now that I have my filter going. once it clears where I can take a decent pic I will take a shot of it with my driftwood and rocks laid out. I tried to do the silicone to the glass bit but had to hard time keeping in place so I removed the one I was trying and got the glass cleaned before filling. I tried the leaning thing but it just didn't look right so left them "Roots" out. wife says we need to find an old bonsai and make one of them trees but its the wrong season to find them around.

anyways did my water today and got these the results.

I was told to wait on my plants for a bit til the cycling gets going good.

I just did my first water test and I did it 3 times to be sure I was being accurate for my first time, and it came out the same all 3 times so here is the results.

I am using the API master test kit

PH: 7.6

High Range PH: 8.2

Ammonia: .25

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5.0 ppm 

I then added 5 ML of ammonia and now I am at 3 PPM on my ammonia levels. tonight a local guy is supposed to be giving me some of his media to help speed things up some


----------



## JoeH

Got my light temp hung tonight it will go into a hood I have to make. local breeder here gave me some bacteria media and also a nice clump of java moss I will attach to some PVC tubes i cut and stacked into a triangle shape


----------



## JoeH

added my tubes this morning covered in Java Moss. as it grows I will cover the front of the tubes and leave little openings for fish to enter their man caves.

will do a water test today rather than wait til tomorrow as I added all that media last night I will see how that is doing.


----------



## JoeH

Day 2 test I also made me a 14 day spreadsheet to chart the cycle


----------



## JoeH

as you can see my

ph high has dropped to 7.4 (dunno what would cause a PH change but again tested it 3 times to be sure)

Nitrites rose to 1.0

and nitrates rose to 10.0

so adding that media last night cause some action. maybe something in the media and the java moss that was left over from local guys tank had something in that caused the ph to drop?

also how do you read the ph? i mean you have reg ph and ph high what does that mean my ph actually is. and how come ph high starts at like 7.4 wouldn't it continue from 7.6?

so with that data what is my actual ph?


----------



## JoeH

well thought I would goto aquarium advisor thing and put in my fish stock and see what the results were and this is how it came out. of course fish could change but at least I have a plan

Equipments:

Tank (LxDxH): 48 x 18 x 20 inch (74.8gUS)
Filters: Eheim 2217


Selected species: 










Recommendations/Warnings/Suggestions/Notes:

Note: Marble Hatchet may jump - lids are recommended.
Note: Bristlenose Pleco needs driftwood.


Recommended temperature range: 75.2 - 78.8 F. [Display in Celsius]
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 12 dH.




You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 214%.
Recommended water change schedule: 19% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 65%.


----------



## Raymond S.

In some arias the water is a higher PH and some people keep their water higher for fish which come from places
where the water is naturally higher. So the kits come/w both regular and high range.
Wait for this to be co-signed by "others" on here but I believe you can just dis-regard the high range test.


----------



## coralbandit

That seems like a good stocking plan.Sounds like a good looking tank!
Your pH is changing probly because the water is still fresh(only a couple days old).Often water out gasses or settles when first exposed to air(it is not in contact with air before you pour it from tap).A good test is to set a bucket of water from your source for 24 hours.Test it upon pouring it in bucket and then again 24 hours later.This will give you closer to true reading.Things in tank like driftwood or organic matter will lower pH,while some rocks(or coral) will raise it.
With 7.6 and 7.4 I would call it 7.5,but it could still adjust itself more over time.I don't think the moss or seeded filter material had any effect on the pH,possibly your other levels(ammonia,nitrite and nitrate).


----------



## JoeH

thanks guys now i understand better. I will still do both tests just to do them so she who must be pleased doesn't think I am slacking ROFL.

I ordered another piece of driftwood yesterday it looked too nice a piece to not order and was a really killer price so couldn't pass it up. I also ordered 2 clumps of weeping moss too which I think I will place on top of the rocks stacked on the driftwood I have in place and let it weep and cover up them rocks and maybe put one clump on top of the tall limb sticking up and let it do its thing and just see where it goes from there as I can always move it around if I don't like it.

ok here is day 3 test results the nitrites and nitrates are still climbing. some numbers are a slight guess because the numbers on the test kit jump some and my color is in between the 2 numbers so i use the middle number that isnt on the chart.

day 3 test results

PH: 7.6

PH High: 7.4

Ammonia: 3.0

Nitrites: 4.0

Nitrates: 15.0


----------



## JoeH

tank finally cleared up quite a bit so thought would take a new pic to practice my aquarium picture stuff


----------



## majerah1

Looking good. For the PH drop it very well could be the driftwood too, as it leeches tannins, causing the PH to drop some. It will not do any harm if its gradual and not a sudden swing. Fish can get accustomed to it. 

Your stocking plan sounds good, will love to see it with fish


----------



## JoeH

looking at those pvc tubes I just dont care for them I need to come up with something else. I just not a big fan of the store bought stuff cause it looks so fake. for now I will leave them in til the cycles complete and i get something new to replace them.

I am also not a huge fan of java moss cause it likes to take over the aquarium so when my other mosses get put in and spread out some more O will probably remove it.


----------



## JoeH

majerah1 said:


> Looking good. For the PH drop it very well could be the driftwood too, as it leeches tannins, causing the PH to drop some. It will not do any harm if its gradual and not a sudden swing. Fish can get accustomed to it.
> 
> Your stocking plan sounds good, will love to see it with fish


i don't think its tannins I boiled the thing like 6 times for 2 hrs each just so i didn't get that discoloring


----------



## JoeH

z1200 said:


> As far as aquascaping goes, try not to make your setup too uniform. In nature things grow or fall wherever they end up. If possible you could lay few pieces of wood sideways. Not saying there is anything wrong with your setup, just a tip. And for lower light carpet plants you could use some mosses if you find a way to keep it where you want it, aslo dwarf Sag. Is a pretty good low growing plant that spreads quickly.
> 
> Good luck and have fun. -Z


Z what is dwarf sag I been trying to look it up buit not sure what it is


----------



## JoeH

here is the piece of wood I have coming it is approx 14" x 4.8" x 5" just have to figure out how I want to set it and where. like do I want it over on my left side by the other driftwood making that side wood heavy area or do I want it on the right side and balance the wood over the bottom

anyone have any input or ideas? i am not the most artistic person lol


----------



## susankat

Dwarf sag depending on your light can get 10 to 12 inches tall. I have used it as a background plants in many smaller tanks.


----------



## JoeH

can I trim the sag and keep it low say 5 or 6 inches will it train to stay that low?


----------



## jrman83

dwarf sagittaria.

If you use the low range ph kit and it maxes out, this is where you need to get a high range kit and test to see where it really is. No matter where the water really is, if high, then on the low test kit it will always test the same (same color). No different than for the ammonia or nitrite kits max, they don't show colors above 5ppm. You are stuck at that place where it is a judgement call on which test to use. Once you know your water, a ph test will be one of the least used tests in your testing kit.


----------



## JoeH

well i have the API master test kit and has both the high and low test kits in with it. it stays the same on the low and the high its running round 7.4


----------



## jrman83

Okay. Just saying that if anyone test their water using the low range kit and it is as high as the chart says (7.6), then you won't know if you have a ph that is higher until you test with the high range kit. Your ph can be 9.0 and it will still read 7.6 with the low range kit.


----------



## JoeH

ok then I will keep testing both low and high to be sure


----------



## jrman83

Would be good to do to learn your water. Most people don't learn their water so well. Gh and kh and crucial pieces of info that most overlook because they may not be aware of what they do. Know all these values for your water and if there are any seasonal differences or any other thing and you are not caught off guard when you have some issue occur.


----------



## JoeH

well I did today's testing and my nitrites color doesn't match anything on my chart.

it is a bright purple color and my chart doesn't go that bright so I am guessing my nitrites are off the chart. my ammonia dropped some more too

I just marked 5 for my nitrites but i would bet they are around 10 somewhere going by the color diff


----------



## SueD

Here's a place for bamboo caves that may be an option for replacing those PVC tubes.

Breeding Caves of Bamboo Featuring Cypress Bayou Creations

My BN Plecos love theirs.


----------



## jrman83

I forget, but if you have fish in this tank you need to do at least 50% water change today and then again tomorrow. Get the levels to 1ppm or below.


----------



## JoeH

naw2 im doing a fishless cycle so Im all good. but man it sucks looking at an empty tank I wanted to put some dwarf baby tears and dwarf minigrass in but wife says cant afford those atm til we know whats going on with her dad who is in the hosp[ital and they talking maybe nursing home. so right now I get to look at a nekked tank and when it finishes cycling in a few weeks hope can get some plants((


----------



## JoeH

wonder what size caves I will need I plan on getting some bristlenose plecos or royal plecos when time comes and they only get abt 3 to 4 inches long. but what diameter?


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> Z what is dwarf sag I been trying to look it up buit not sure what it is


Aquatic Plants for Freshwater Aquariums: Dwarf Sagittaria

Do not confuse this plant/w the one which looks a lot like it which is sold in the tube at Petco. That is lawn grass trimming for
around the borders of gardens/not an aquatic plant but may last a while under water before dieing.

The plant on the link will do better/w root tabs / needs fairly good light at least / can-has been known to get 11" but mine
haven't gotten over 5" so far.

Your 2 x T8 bulbs on a 75 G tank would be "low" lighting.

You can find low light plants on here by selecting the light level you want.
Tropical freshwater aquarium fish: Find plants


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> naw2 im doing a fishless cycle so Im all good. but man it sucks looking at an empty tank I wanted to put some dwarf baby tears and dwarf minigrass in but wife says cant afford those atm til we know whats going on with her dad who is in the hosp[ital and they talking maybe nursing home. so right now I get to look at a nekked tank and when it finishes cycling in a few weeks hope can get some plants((


The plants you are listing look great, but require high light levels AND Co2 for optimum growth / can be done without the Co2
but high lights and no Co2 more often than not will produce algae and usually quite a bit of it.
This is true of most of the small plants but not all. Anubia nana is one that is small and does not require high light and in fact
will likely get algae on the older leaves when grown/w high lights because the leaves last a long time and the plant grows slowly
at about one leaf per month or even less. Just allows a longer time for those older leaves to accumulate algae if the light is high.


----------



## jrman83

I think Dwarf Sag gets longer leaves in lower light levels. Not sure of that. It seems in my one tank where I had it, it grew leaves less than 4-5" and stayed that way (high light and CO2), but in my lower light level shrimp tanks the leaves are just 2" from the surface of a 20g tall.


----------



## JoeH

well day 5 and my nitrates have skyrocketed man I cant wait for this to be over I want to see fish in the tank lol but its going to be slow father in law just went into hospital fell and broke his knee and fractured his hip so he will have to goto nursing home for 2 weeks afterwards. so wife says no plant money for a while as we try to help out with his bills. I have 2 clumps of weeping moss on the way but looks like my dwarf hairy grass and dwarf baby tears will be on hold for a while and when cycle finishes get a few fish slowly so the grandkids still have their aquarium when they come visit


----------



## JoeH

thanks guys actually my lighting is mid range of medium lighting. I know a lot of ppl talk abt watts for lighting but they are misguided. watts has nothing to do with your lighting its the power used by the lights. yes more watts can give brighter results but true light is measured by Lumens and in water that lumens is converted to PAR values and the Par value for these lights puts my almost at middle of medium lighting.


----------



## coralbandit

As a general rule if you use more light(higher par) then you will need some ferts to help the plant use the "energy".Eventually with enough light and ferts then co2 is the next step to help the plant make the most of what it has.Keep lighting cycle under 10 hrs.Many do very well with 8 hrs.More light will drive algae of some kind(hope it's not BBA{but we'll cross that bridge if we get there}).
Sorry to hear about your FIL,hope he gets better!
Patience pays in the aquarium world(nothing good happens fast).


----------



## JoeH

thanks right now the only thing driving me crazy is my wood slime lol it looks aweful withed I had some plecos they would have a field day


----------



## JoeH

my last fish will prob be my corys I want the gold sterbas corys but only local ones are at petsmart and they 8 bucks a piece and when you want a min of 6 thats too costly right now


----------



## susankat

You can take the wood out and clean it off then boil it for a couple of hours. Will help with the slime issue. On caves I would suggest at least 1 1/2 inch diameter. Just remember that a royal will get to about 12 inches so make sure you have a tank big enough.


----------



## jrman83

I have taken a scrub pad and scrubbed the wood while it was in the water with my de-watering/water change hose next to it sucking out the yuck.

Interesting that your ammonia stayed the same. I think your nitrites are definitely going down with the nitrates going up. You should be cycled in 3-5 days. Whatever you are doing to add ammonia (not sure) I would stop for a couple of days.


----------



## Raymond S.

Lighting an Aquarium with PAR instead of Watts
The amount of PAR is heavily dependent on how good the reflectors are. Reflectors which are just painted white reflect
far less light than the ones which look like chrome or mirrors.
But after reading this PAR Post here I do believe that you may just have med lights there.
A short ways down from the top is a section telling you which level has what numbers of PAR and the ferts/Co2 for that.
Farther down it has charts of each type of light fixture including a T8 chart, but the reflector used there is chrome looking.
But still I think it suggest you have over 30 which does put you in the med range.

And I think jrman83 could be right about the Dwarf Sag having longer leaves if the light is low. Not for evidence I've seen
on the low end but rather at a shop where they had some outside in direct sunlight. It was flat, the leaves spread wide
and each leaf was a bit wider than any I've seen before.


----------



## JoeH

well grandkids come over tonight for a few hrs of gpa babysitting and they brought along a plant for THEIR aquarium (mom wont let them have one cause she doesn't know how to take care of it and worried the kids will keep putting things in it. by march oldest will be 4 youngest 2 so they at the smart stage where they stack chairs and boxes to climb onto the counter to get into the snack cabinet lol.

they brought a Alternanthera Reineckii or Scarlet Temple plant. it will look nice but as it says med to high light req and im just in the med range it will grow slow is all from its description. it says to plant in fine gravel but I am assuming my sand will be fine for it.










Alternanthera Reineckii ( plant name )


Maximum size of the plant:
25 - 50 cm ( 9.84" - 19.69" )

Suitable water pH when growing Alternanthera reineckii:
6.2 - 7.1

DH of water:
dGH 4 - 12 °N

Recommended water temperature:
23 - 30 °C ( 73.4 - 86 °F)

Recommended substrate for growing:
Fine gravel

The plant's requirements on lighting (light type):
Medium to Bright

Recommended place in fish tanks according to size of the plant:
Middle

Way of propagation:
Cuttings

The plant originates from:
South America

Growth speed (if other conditions are 100%):
Slow

Information about care
Family
Amaranthaceae

Common Names
Magenta water hedge

Origin
South America, Alternanthera Reineckii are found in the Amazonian waterways.

Planting Area
Alternanthera Reineckii should be planted in mid-ground and background areas of a fish tank depending on other plants species that are grown in the same tank.

Lighting Requirements
Medium to high amount of light is required, if kept under low lighting the growth rate will be slowed down.

Propagation
Very easy plant to propagate, remove the middle shoot and plant straight away in the substrate. This will help to make the mother plant bush out. Cuttings can also be taken from the side shoots.

Difficulty
Medium - if correct lighting is used, Alternanthera Reineckii are relatively easy to look after.

Short Description
Alternanthera Reineckii make an excellent plant for blending in with green foliage. Their red leaves offer a contrast against the green and they are also useful for filling out any gaps in the foliage. This plant specie will require nutrients in the form of root tabs or liquid feeds to keep them in top condition.


----------



## JoeH

as for my wood guys I am not worried I was told its a reg thing and shortly it will release from the wood and filter out. I boiled the heck out of the wood and was told boiling wont stop it so I am fine with it it will either release or my cycle will finish and it will be munchies for my plecos.

Susan depends on the royal species have a local breeder here and his he says wont get over 6 inches. there are royal queens that get larger but the royals local guy has go to 6" and there are some listed at 4 " max so i guess i need to be sure.

I got plenty room anyways this is 48 x 18 x 20 tank


----------



## JoeH

JR I added 4 PPM ammonia at start and havent added any more. when it goes to 0 I will go up to 2 ppm and when goes to 0 again go up another 2 til my ammonia and nitrites are both a 0 then wait 24 hrs


----------



## JoeH

Raymond I still have to make my hood and I was going to line the inside with a chrome tye material so it reflects the light really well.

yes I saw the charts with the tubes and fixtures used and got the bulbs listed and my fixture though not the same matches the stats of the one they listed.

thats hoiw I got my lighting I got it calculated at 40 but once hood is finished and height etc all adjusted and reflectors it will be around 42

its really a nice article I knew some of it due to studying for underwater reflections and lighting when I did my taxidermy stuff especially for competitions and then that page just graduated me from high school lighting to college lighting lol


----------



## JoeH

well wanted to practice my picture taking skills and so after my grandkids helped me plant the plant by telling me where to put them (with a little idea planting by gpa) I took some pics.

I have 2 on the left side of the tank and end of the driftwood figuring it will grow and hide some of the intake but plenty far away so no circulation probs. plus being a slow grower figure i will be good for a while. just hopes it grows another couple inches fast enough so when I put my dwarf hair grass in it wont be hidden behind the grass. the other one is in middle of the tank towards the back and at the end of the driftwood. I have some idea of where I am going with this lol just a little start like that and ideas pop in my head.

also those little hairy white things is that what I want to trim below and plant in substrate when I do my trimmings?

Also how tall should they be before I take my first trimmings it says it gets nice and bushy if it gets trimmed. right now they are like 2 to 2 1/2 inches tall

they are cute too kinda glad they got them cause I probably wouldnt have due to lighting etc being on the border


----------



## susankat

If that is the case they are probably named incorrectly.


----------



## JoeH

susankat said:


> If that is the case they are probably named incorrectly.


yea its black and white striped like the royal pics but who knows rofl theres so many species and sub species I cant keep track so if they look cool and grow up to but not much more than 6" ill be happy. I still might get my Green Phantoms though would love a breeding pair of those and my tank sb able to handle them at 75 gals


----------



## susankat

Yeah I have 3 different tanks with ones that are black and white striped. He may be referring to the king tiger or queen arabesque.


----------



## JoeH

well today is day 6 and my water test shows .25ppm ammonia so i need to dose it again now but I have read some ppl do partial water changes at this point some ppl don't. also I am trying to figure out how much prime to add when I do my water changes as it says 1 cap full per 50 gal so how much for a 5 gal bucket I don't want to over do it and have it affect my cycle.

anyways here is results for day 6 I think this thing is screaming along pretty good maybe if I am lucky I can have some fish by Xmas when the grand kids come over and can surprise them.


----------



## JoeH

well today was a slight disappointment. I had ordered 2 golf ball sized clumps of weeping moss and they arrived today. was abt half of what I thought it should be but no prob there live and learn.

I don't know if moss is supposed to have some kind of root structure or whatnot but what this looked like is someone took and clipped a bunch off the top of his moss and packed it into a ball. when I went to put it in the aquarium I had a million strands of moss float off in all directions. so I scooped it all together pulled my rock out and did a loose wrap for now with some thread. only thing I had was red thread but it will do the job.

he wrapped a lot of newspaper around the little plastic bag but then I opened it some of the tips had ice on them so I got them in the sink and ran some temperate water over them slowly so not to shock the plant before I put it in the aquarium. 

I don't know how it will grow but I put it all on one rock and later if it takes I can split it up and move it around. right now it looks like crap and I've half a mind to throw it in the trash but i spent 13 bucks on it so I will give it a chance since i cant buy no more plants now father in law in hospital

Lets see what the driftwood looks like when it come in in the next day or two. guess ill learn not to buy online from individuals in the future


----------



## z1200

Moss is pretty hardy. It never grows any root structure, but it will cling to any porous surface. It usually grows fairly slowly and requires little care. It always looks rough when it arrives in the mail, give it a few weeks to straighten out.


----------



## JoeH

ok thanks i just want it to cling so I can take the thread off and let it "WEEP" naturally and cover the rocks


----------



## JoeH

i keep hearing an occasional cracking sound from my aquarium maybe once a day sometimes I am wondering if it could just be the blue foam it is sitting on settling cause i keep looking the aquarium over and its all fine so I guessing its just settling of it on its new stand and foam. but since it was a freebie tank I freak out when it does do it lol


----------



## majerah1

To me the moss doesnt look bad. It will grow fine and soon cover the red thread. Do not be discouraged from buying from others, as that is how many support their hobby. I much prefer to deal with other hobbyists than chain stores, because I know they work hard to get what they have. Some of the best looking fish ad plants I have gotten have come from individuals here and on other forums. 

As for the cracking, I would worry.


----------



## JoeH

thanks im new to the mosses and i see the moss pads and ill prob just get moss pads from now on as they are already stuck to something and I can trim the pads for my needs


----------



## JoeH

Ok day 7 my ammonia is at 0 I added abt 2 1/2 ML so will give it a few mins to circulate then will test and adjust til im up to abt 2 ppm


----------



## Raymond S.

Actually that moss looks healthy. Bits and pieces need to be secured(as you did) because each may sprout a new plant.
Learned that one the hard way/w Java moss. Trumpet snails kept chewing off pieces cause when they ate the algae which
grows on it(farther down the plant will turn a darker color. That's algae but a fine coat of it. The trumpet snails don't stop when they come to the bottom of the algae however so bits and pieces float off and before you know it your whole floor of the tank is covered/w mosses.
Never had that type of moss so don't have a clue as to how fast it grows, but with your good light it should be noticed soon...like two to three
days to see something like greener tips on it.


----------



## JoeH

thanks it looks kinda brownish in areas and green in the others so hoping that the cold weather didn't hurt it.

its scientific name is Vesicularia ferriei its a really nice looking moss when its all greened up

Aquatic Moss. How to grow Aquatic Moss. Info on Java Moss, Christmas Moss, Taiwan Moss, Peacock Moss, Stringy Moss



Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'

Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping', commonly known as Weeping Moss, is believed to originate from China and has been distributed by Oriental Aquarium Plants. 'Weeping' is a fleshy, 1-3 cm tall hanging moss with teardrop-like bright green shoots. It is best attached to driftwood or roots, as its drooping growth pattern helps to create depth and contrast in the aquarium. 'Weeping' has low demands, is fast growing and should be pruned frequently with scissors to maintain an attractive shape.


----------



## JoeH

Day 8 ammonia back to 0 so added some more Ammonia 

Nitrates up abt 10 ppm to 50


----------



## JoeH

well here is the little driftwood piece I got. Like I said it wasn't the piece that I ordered but I will make do with it. And yes the ad said this is the piece you are buying so it wasn't like your piece will be something like this but that it WAS the piece.

Anyways I boiled it up for a couple hopurs and now have it in place. It works and i finally have my focal point instead of a mish mash of stuff.

I really need to come up with a fast growing short ground cover. every one tells me that my light isn't bright enough for dwarf Hairy grass or dwarf baby tears and that they need CO2. but everything i read says different says no CO2 needed and only Medium Lighting which I have? So I am kinda lost of what to do for a lawn to cover my substrate.


----------



## Raymond S.

Glossostigma Elatinoides Care - Aquarium Plants
You could try this one as it don't "require" Co2. But may grow thin in lower than bright light.
This is regular baby tears. Not in an excess of light. Two T8 bulbs on a ten G tank. No Co2, but yes ferts as they get them from the water
mostly. I have read a few times that you can get them to grow short/thick if you are inclined to trim, and trim them.

And in this picture they are being grown as a surface plant but I think you can get them to do something like this on the bottom if
you keep trimming them down. But it might end up being an every few days type of thing. See how dense they can get.


----------



## jrman83

The way to get nearly ALL stem plants thick is by trimming. Just like you do your shrubs in a yard.


----------



## JoeH

ok thanks. i wont do much replying because I just had a night from hell and time for early bed lol.

it is -2 F out without counting windchill. 

watched grand kids was using father in laws truck. went to get gas afterwards turned into gas station tire on passenger side blew out think it broke its bead cause was too cold cause it went immediate flat. tunnel to lower spare was broke so had to mess with that. step ups he has were attached where jack went so had to fight to find a place for jack to work 4 places til it worked.

no cell phone, no gloves, and 90 mins in sub zero weather changing tire. needless to say I'm frozen, tired, and cranky tonight I wont be leaving house rest of winter lol.


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> ok thanks. i wont do much replying because I just had a night from hell and time for early bed lol.
> 
> it is -2 F out without counting windchill.
> 
> watched grand kids was using father in laws truck. went to get gas afterwards turned into gas station tire on passenger side blew out think it broke its bead cause was too cold cause it went immediate flat. tunnel to lower spare was broke so had to mess with that. step ups he has were attached where jack went so had to fight to find a place for jack to work 4 places til it worked.
> 
> no cell phone, no gloves, and 90 mins in sub zero weather changing tire. needless to say I'm frozen, tired, and cranky tonight I wont be leaving house rest of winter lol.


But if your not leaving the house you'll have lots of time to reply...LOL...


----------



## JoeH

rofl I meant tonight but I had to eat and wife just got home so I am abt to hit the sack and its only 930 here I dont normally goto bed til 4 am and I am up by 8 830


----------



## JoeH

i was looking for plecos while waiting for her to get home. I am trying g to find something nice but not overboard expensive.

like albino long fin BN or i have seen a pic of a nice bright red BN and trying to find some and see if they also come in long fin

I have seen some similar only going for around 5 bucks or so. I would love to get a pair to breed but unless spend a ton for those big enough to sex its like a crap shoot i guess


----------



## Raymond S.

jrman83 said:


> The way to get nearly ALL stem plants thick is by trimming. Just like you do your shrubs in a yard.


I know this is very likely to be wishful thinking but would it eventually make the plant grow less tall ?
I presume you mean it will work just as well on my Rotala and I have noticed that they usually send out a side shoot when I trim them
but just never did trim them for reducing their height. I was always just getting more to plant. But since when does the plant care
what my reason was...LOL...


----------



## susankat

For ground cover you might check into the micro swords. Echinodorus tenellus or Lilaeopsis brasiliensis.


----------



## JoeH

today day 9 of cycle 

Nitrates have gone up some but still see no difference in nitrites. So when do these damn Nitrites start dropping lol


----------



## Raymond S.

That is why most on here say it is never the same amount of time for a cycle to happen.
Do those ten entries represent ten days ? If so it may indicate why I hear that a cycle takes two weeks minimum in most cases.
I am learning while watching your chart as it tells more of a story than just hearing about it does. Thanks...great job...
I think this will be co-signed by others: It is important to put fish in soon after the nitrites hit O because you will start to
loose some of the beneficial bacteria soon after that if they don't have the ammonia which will be supplied by the fish waste.
Do NOT take just my word on that however. People such as jrman83 and coralbandit have cycled far more tanks than I have.
You might ask one of them about the timing on this.


----------



## JoeH

thanks Raymond yes this is day 9 since the start. as soon as it hits 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites I will add ammonia one more time and wait 24 hrs and test again if they both still at 0 the next day then I will add fish. will prob start with a school of something


----------



## Raymond S.

You mentioned an issue/w grand level spending right now and I remember it. I just wanted to tell you that I read where a person told someone that if they wanted, they could fully stock the tank at that time as the bacteria level is high because of "feeding" it/w ammonia
during the cycle. Whatever you do decide remember that the bacteria which have no food will die off and the new level of them will
be in accordance with the amount of ammonia produced by the fish in there at that time. Meaning you will need to add more only
a few at a time from then on, say a week apart from each time you add in order to give the BB time to build their numbers up.


----------



## coralbandit

There are two different colonies of bacteria.The ammonia converting are usaully the quickest(and first) and the nitrite are second and sometimes will take twice as long as the first group.Everybodies water is different and often even the method they choose to cycle by will be a little different.So when you combine two variables the outcome is hard to predict.Although this may be testing your patience it seems to me all is going well.You have the right idea(been given good info so far) and yea,when nitrites hit 0 dose again and check in 24 hours.
Your getting close ,but really can't say how long.But it has to happen so keep the faith!


----------



## jrman83

Raymond S. said:


> I know this is very likely to be wishful thinking but would it eventually make the plant grow less tall ?
> I presume you mean it will work just as well on my Rotala and I have noticed that they usually send out a side shoot when I trim them
> but just never did trim them for reducing their height. I was always just getting more to plant. But since when does the plant care
> what my reason was...LOL...


Some plants are "trainable", but most aren't. I keep Staurogyne Repens that is that way. No Rotalas do that, that I am aware of.


----------



## JoeH

I contacted a local breeder buddy of mine and he has 3 to 4 Super Red BN Plecos on hold for me  and he says if I don't get a female when they grow out he has no prob swapping with me since he sells them right and left


I am also got 1 more 2 liter bottle to get and going to try and make me a home made CO2 Diffuser to help with some plants but the thing I don't understand yet is how to tell if I am getting too much CO2 I read some where you only want to inject while the lights are on if that's the case do I just take the end out of the tank at night and let it diffuse into the air?


----------



## JoeH

I guess Winter really is here


----------



## lonedove55

JoeH said:


> I guess Winter really is here


OUCH!! Now that's _*cold!! *_My husband was in Iowa couple of weeks ago when you had ice up there (he drives a semi truck) and said it was way too cold for his old bones. Said he hopes he doesn't have to go back again any time soon! BTW, great looking tank!

I've been trying to locate some weeping moss, and would appreciate it if you could you post a link or where you purchased yours. 



> also those little hairy white things is that what I want to trim below and plant in substrate when I do my trimmings?


FYI: The hairy white things are actually roots and when you trim that plant, cut off pieces of the stems, not just the roots, and just replant the trimmings into the substrate after removing some of the leaves at the bottom. The stems will eventually grow their own roots.


----------



## JoeH

this isn't the place I got it from the guy I got it from only had 1 and I still don't care for how I got it but here is another source I am going to try next time

Weeping Moss for Sale | Flora Aquatica - Freshwater Aquarium Plants for Planted Tanks

Weeping Moss- Fish Tank Low Light Live Aquarium Plant for sale

Weeping Moss- Fish Tank Low Light Live Aquarium Plant - New and Used - PetPeoplesPlace.com


----------



## JoeH

the first link looks more reliable for quality


----------



## JoeH

well for some reason my nitrates dropped off pretty significantly today


----------



## Marshall

i would redo that test just to make sure, that doesn't really make sense unless you suddenly planted a LOT of plants


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> the first link looks more reliable for quality


I have gotten plants from Malaysia and 1 out of 3 don't make it due to the extended time involved in shipping.
Not from that dealer but still from Malaysia so it's how far it is. I don't hold them responsible when I knew how far it needed to travel.


----------



## JoeH

ok well there were a couple other places and i see them on flea bay and amazon sometimes

I did retest it that's why its so bewildering


----------



## JoeH

Here you go Raymond this guy sounds statewide and reasonableWeeping Moss Live Aquarium Plant Fish Tank Tropical | eBay


----------



## JoeH

oops damn malaysia again


----------



## JoeH

here you go says grown and shipped from USA Live Weeping Moss Nice Sized Start USA Grown Great for Fry Java Alternative | eBay


----------



## JoeH

yiou should get it fairly fasty Raymond it ships from Ellettsville, Indiana


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> here you go says grown and shipped from USA Live Weeping Moss Nice Sized Start USA Grown Great for Fry Java Alternative | eBay


Will have to admit that's different...selling socks on the same page as pet supplies...LOL...
In Malaysia that $3.00 profit is a weeks salary. I think it has no winter but easily could be wrong on that one.
I still get one plant now and then from Malaysia. I just don't really expect too much from it. I now have Fissedens/a Philippine Java Fern and a Narrow leaf Jave Fern from them in my tank. Three or four other plants died from there.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## JoeH

well I would prob try to weave it a little into a mat then it would be able to be better shaped. hopefully you don't get just a bunch of individual strands like I did I didn't see a way to do anything but lay them along a rock and tie them up


----------



## JoeH

well while waiting for the foam to cure til tomorrow I made me a CO2 Diffuser tonight. I used 3 - 2 liter bottles with 2 having my yeast generator and they feed into an empty 3rd bottle as a safely so no yeast gets into my tank, then I ran my line and drilled a small hole in the bottom of my intake screen and ran the line into the bottom so that my canister diffuses the CO2. I did use a check valve also so I don't get a backup into my bottles.

I know it is probably not very much for my size tank but I just want to feed a little CO2 into the tank to help the plants a little since I will be using easy plants that don't require CO2


----------



## JoeH

anyways My Original wood has most of the slime going away finally but I am getting some bubbles in the slime I assume thats what is popping it off when they burst but I noticed some white spots on the wood now they remind me of little tiny calcium baubles are these normal or some kind of fungus or something to worry abt. kind of hard to see in the pics


----------



## vreugy

Small world. I came from Ellettsville Indiana,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a long time ago. Thanks for the link.

Have a blessed day


----------



## JoeH

Well todays Readings nothing new on nitrites but nitrates went up by abt 10


----------



## JoeH

went to sis in laws today and snow blowed the snow for her and the old man across the street said if I felt like it I could do his for him lol he is a nice old man comes and visits sometimes when I'm working in sis's yard so I said sure and plowed him out too man was i beat but he gave me 20 bucks for doing it even though i insisted 3 times he didn't owe me anything. 

Wifey said why don't I take the money and get some plants for the aquarium. well of course wasn't going to argue there so went got me a narrow leaf java fern, a pack of dwarf Hairy grass, and some grass I dunno what it is but looked cool and says grows to abt 15" so I thought it would look good in the back by my rocks. I took out my PVC tubes and moved the rocks around into a nice arrangement and in front corner wrapped my java moss around a flat rock and made a nice hairy ball with it.

For the grass it was all rooted together and so i carefully pulled it apart into several pieces and laid them out in front of my driftwood. 

the bad thing was messing with the tank all that slime released from my long driftwood and got all over everything lol. oh well if this cycle ever finishes my plecos will have a field day.

also my DIY CO2 is going good I am getting abt 2 bubbles every 3 seconds. my canister filter is not having any problems with it but its funny because you get these bubbles going through the lines so every once in a while you here this swoosh sound as a big wad of them come out the airflow as teensy miniscule little bubbles.

Hopefully that plus my lighting etc my Hairy grass will spread fast if I didn't kill it separating it into individual clumps.


----------



## JoeH




----------



## JoeH

well today another boring report same ole same ole with my cycle


----------



## susankat

The dhg would do better and spread faster if you split them up more. No more than 10 leaves per plants.


----------



## JoeH

ok I wasnt sure on them because there wasn't much root I saw. I figured ppl leave whole pots in center and let it spread I could use bigger clumps lol they look like an old west desert town weeds and is giving it some nice character


----------



## JoeH

I think I am going to do a PWC today whether it takes me longer or not something screwy going on here cause weird that my nitrates are crashing


----------



## Raymond S.

I'm sure that someone on here will correct this if appropriate but since your ammonia has been at O in the 9 last entries 
into this chart, have you been adding it and doing a test after some time has passed ? The initial colony(sorry I don't know
the names of them) convert the ammonia to nitrites which are then converted to nitrates by that secondary colony of BB.
It would seem that you should add more after this water change to insure the supply to the BB. Your charts do indicate
that there is something going on strange but I'm not experienced enough/w them to say just what it might be.
But if you have stopped adding the ammonia this may be why the nitrates are starting to go down.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


----------



## JoeH

naw I add 2ppm ammonia every day after my tests never did a water change before.

I just finished a 60% water change have to run to nursing home and check on father in law and take him one of those red xmas plants then will come back test water and dose it up.

after a PWC should I dose full strength ammonia or just half like I been doing?


----------



## Raymond S.

I'm sure there are other people who have been guiding this effort and they should be in on that decision
rather than me. I personally would follow the directions of that link I just gave you for lack of having
any experience to do otherwise. I've always kept low stocking levels at first start up of my tanks and
have always done fish in cycles, but with Tetra Safe Start along/w it. Was not around when I first started 
but has been since I re-started four years ago.


----------



## JoeH

ok after putting 45 gals new water in my tank its almost like I did nothing. My trites are still off the chart though it looks like the trates are showing abt 90 now this cycle crap is weird rofl


----------



## coralbandit

Something funny is going on?With no water changes done how did nitrates go from 80 on day 9 to 20 on day 10? As for it being 5 before your water change and 90 after I suspect you are doing the test incorrectly.
Have you tested your source water?
The timming of the cycle can be hard to predict but the behavior(pattern of growth) is not.You have either errored on test or have fabricated these numbers.
I almost (did for the time) buy into Raymonds idea on the decreasing nitrate,but now I think something is up?


----------



## JoeH

i have no idea I am not making the numbers up and I am doing the test the exact same way every time. I shake the living crap out of my chemicals before adding my drops.

I have my water exactly to the test line, and I make sire the drops drip slow enough I easily can count them.

The only thing I am thinking is that maybe there is something wrong with one of my bottles of chemicals maybe it was an old bottle they put in the kit?


----------



## JoeH

well Day 15 of Cycle. Ammonia not quite to zero its at .25ppm but it was afternoon when I did WC so still has some time for a 24 hr cycle. Nitrites color looks little dif but still off the chart. Nitrates around 110-120 by looking at color and guessing the range between the 80 and 160 ppm on chart the color is getting real close to the 160 mark


----------



## susankat

If there is no fish in the tank why are you doing water changes. it will slow down your cycle.


----------



## FishFlow

Excellent thread. Love the tank. Keep up the excellent work!


----------



## JoeH

because I was having weird readings with my nitrates dropping and stuff so even if it takes longer I wanted to change water just in case there was something in water goofing up.

that said for every person says don't change water there is as many say that changing water helps and that it hasn't slowed theirs down any and actually helped to speed things up. most say it is so you can get a better read on your nitrites but even after that my nitrites are still through the roof.

Either way the way I am documenting this if it works or doesn't work for helping things it will be well documented. so if the water change helps then we know that changing has no affect on the outcome and if it causes it to take longer then it will show that too.

I am a mad scientist so even though i wished I had fish I like to test things for myself and not always take ppls word. its like fish in or fishless half ppl prefer fishless for whatever reason half prefer fish in some swear fishless takes longer some swear fish in takes longer. it is all fine and dandy but noone has documentation of their cycle to prove either way. that is why this is 100% documented daily. even at the initial part where you dont need to do checks but every couple days while the trites are starting. then people can use this to make their own INFORMED choice

I appreciate and have listened to everyones help and advice but when my nitrates start dropping errr actually crashing and noone can understand why then it is time to try something else and see if that affects it. in this case the water change has and the trates are rising rapidly again


----------



## JoeH

Today was at a LFS and saw some plants on sale so I picked up a couple for behind my Ricci will post pics later they were in colder water so I have the bag floating in mine for a pit to acclimate the plants and not shock them as mines running abt 82


----------



## Raymond S.

All seems rational to me. You said all was documented. Did you include those days(because I don't see it on the chart) when
you added ammonia to it also ?


----------



## JoeH

every day I check and after I do my water check I add ammonia automatically to 2 PPM. I dont do a full retest and put on the charts so it doesnt confuse people. I even if you notice took the one time i did show it dosing off cause everyone thought I had a spike. Thus I leave Dosing off.

So I guess to make sure it is known (thanks for pointing it out abt that) That every day when my ammonia is showing 0 PPM I am redosing it after my water testing back to 2 PPM then the next day test and when it shows 0PPM I redose it back. I have not skipped any days of dosing since the Ammonia dropped to 0


----------



## Raymond S.

JoeH said:


> every day I check and after I do my water check I add ammonia automatically to 2 PPM. I dont do a full retest and put on the charts so it doesnt confuse people. I even if you notice took the one time i did show it dosing off cause everyone thought I had a spike. Thus I leave Dosing off.
> 
> So I guess to make sure it is known (thanks for pointing it out abt that) That every day when my ammonia is showing 0 PPM I am redosing it after my water testing back to 2 PPM then the next day test and when it shows 0PPM I redose it back. I have not skipped any days of dosing since the Ammonia dropped to 0


Thanks as I was a bit confused about it. It would seem to be fairly impossible to have constant 5's on nitrites if there wasn't a constant
supply of ammonia for the nitrite to come from.


----------



## susankat

Its just a matter of choice of fish in or out, but my opinion is out because their is less harm to the fish and less work. During a cycle you can get all kinds of crazy readings and until ammonia and nitrites drop to zero water changes aren't needed. A nitrate spike in middle of cycle can have a few causes. Even your tap can change at times causing it. I would just let it run its course and not worry about it.


----------



## JoeH

but it wasn't spiking Susan it had plummeted went from 80 to 20 overnight

Raymond my nitrites are a lot higher than 5 I just using the 5 for now as its max on the chart and really bright purple so have no clue as to how many millions and billions of nitrites there are. like said even with a 60% (45 gal) water change they were still off the chart so something is still working there, and I feel better with the water change that something might have been causing the trates to dump over night


----------



## JoeH

Well heres some pics of the new plants can anyone remind me of the names? I know I saw these and wanted them for background plants and when I saw at the LFS I recognized the looks but cant remember the names

I believe the one behind the 2 Ricci is Cabomba caroliniana and the one behind the single ricci I think is Pogostemon erectus

at least that is what I was hoping they were when I bought them


----------



## JoeH




----------



## coralbandit

There should be an expiration date on all test bottles.I just can't see how you would have 5ppm nitrate before a change and then90 and 120 on days that follow.
We all get funny results every now and then,for most of us we re test if it doesn't seem right.I have had very low readings that I know were incorrect and re tested to get a more accurate reading.
1^ with susan also ,if you have no fish then you should just "let it ride" till your complete,then do large water change to get nitrates to safe level and stock.


----------



## JoeH

The right side of my aquarium is kinda bare as I am working on the left side. on the Right I will be doing more with a rock hardscape as this winter is here lot of the landscape stores are closed where I want to get my gravel. I don't want the tiny aquarium gravel but more of the 1/2" to 1" sized gravel so I can have some Larger stones and then some 1 to 2" stones then my 1/2 to 1" gravel with a few of the tiny gravel thrown in to look like more of a cascading of rock rubble. I will then put a couple bush type plans in there among the gravel and maybe some weed looking things scattered here and there. its getting there slowly and starting to look up. I think once my DHG gets filled in it will really look good.


----------



## Raymond S.

I've been meaning to ask, but keep forgetting. Those lead weights need to be removed from the plants. Are you planning on moving them again ? Once the plants start to grow they will fill up the spaces and rot the bottom of the plants.


----------



## JoeH

ok they just rubber bands but didnt know if i was supposed to leave them on or remove them. and atm it was easier to plant them like they were and see if i like the spot so i will go ahead and remove them


----------



## Gizmo

The rubber bands do make it easier to plant, but they constrict the stems and can inhibit the plant from growing to its full potential.


----------



## JoeH

Well Looks like the water change was for the good. today there was a significant drop in my nitrites and I retested 3 times to be sure


----------



## JoeH

so far as today's results the part about a water change during cycling stalling or taking longer is an Urban Myth and that it can actually help your cycle is looking more of a possibility. My cycle still isn't over but that's the way it is looking to me right now.


----------



## JoeH

Well Today it seems Like my Cycle is just Continuing along Swimmingly. my ammonia dumped to 0 and my nitrites came down to .25 and my Nitrates went up. so I am happy with the water change and it is getting soooo close I just wished the trites would have hit 0 today so that Sunday I could have gotten some fish but will have to be next week if the LFS isn't all sold out rofl


----------



## JoeH

Yay my cycle is Complete I will dose one more time today and if it reads same its fishy time !!!!!


----------



## coralbandit

Good deal!I tried to call it yesterday but site was malfunctionig.The test kits(API) aren't the most accurate in the world ,so with only .25ppm nitrite and your abundance of nitrates I suspected you were complete.Now is time for large water change(50-70%) or [email protected] 50% in the next 2 days.Looking for nitrates at 40 or lower.
Get ready to start enjoying!


----------



## jrman83

I would do a 90% water change or multiples of 50% or higher. 140ppm nitrates is a tad high. 2-90s maybe.

Thing about nitrites...once they begin to drop it is usually very rapid.


----------



## JoeH

what i have learned from all this is that doing a water change had no detrimental affect and actually helped the cycle.

This is what One guy told me on one of the other forums and makes sense because once did the water change things went good. I think it was because even though the nitrites were still over the top they just weren't as high.

"Congrats on being about done. I did a little article search and found out a little bit of information.

High amounts of ammonia inhibits the nitrite to nitrate conversion.

High amounts of nitrite inhibit the ammonia to nitrite conversion.

This brings a twist to the directions for fishless cycling. Once you see nitrites in the tank you need to stop dosing ammonia until the nitrite are converted to nitrate.

The stalling of the cycle is due to redosing ammonia which stalls out the nitrite to nitrate conversion. The build up of nitrite also eventually slows the ammonia conversion. "


----------



## jrman83

His info is flawed. Doing the water change didn't hurt it because you were so close already. If I am the bacteria that eats nitrites and you just took part of what I needed to do out of the water, then you just made it easier to accomplish for me. But, you also decreased my population in the process. Not from water removal, but from the point of my population only grows as much as needed. You got there one way or the other, but ordinarily I would say you could stock your tank to a full capacity level in one day but since you did that I would start at maybe 50% and progress slowly until you hit where you want to be.

Doing it your way and doing a water change on the end isn't wrong per se, but you sort of missed the "full" advantage of doing it the other way.


----------



## JoeH

well I was dropping nitrates is why I did the change. I wont be doing a full stock it will be over time. I may do a school of mid swimmers and my plecos and possibly some shrimps.

my full tank list is only like 60% of tanks capacity anyways. I didnt want to load it to the max but around half that way if I saw something or had baby plecos etc then I have plenty of room for them


----------



## JoeH

I was out babysitting my grandsons today and stopped by Petco and they have a nice sale going on so looks like the initial list will be 10 Sterbae Tetras 5 for $5 cant beat that price and they all look healthy and swimming nicely, then 10 Ghost Shrimp for now I want red cherrys but they only carry Ghosts then 3 or 4 Super Red Plecos

that is the initial run then after xmas 10 Marble Hatchets and if they get enough in for a school at the LFS 6 Sterbae Corys


----------



## JoeH

ok did a 90% + water change and then tested and everything was great so went and got a few test fish. I wanted the serpae tetras but someone bought them in the 2 hrs I went away to do water so I got 10 Black Skirt Tetra and 10 Ghost shrimps. the shrimps are having a blast in the tank and already munching on the moss. I even got a decent pic. I am drip acclimating the Black skirts the gal in the store says she has abt 30 at home and says they pretty hardy fish but I am dripping them to be sure. if anything the shrimps woulda been going bonkers by now but they seem to be having fun. I put a few miniscule food flakes with the black skirts and they gobbled them up and are swimming round in acclimation pretty nice so I think everything is going ok


----------



## JoeH

I just put the Black skirts in and they were scared and hiding at the bottom but the light clicked off and the min it did they were swimming and playing all over the place. 2 of them looked to be getting frisky the were chasing each other and then running against one another. need batteries for camera but when their colors come back when they get used to the tank I will get some pics


----------



## jrman83

Shrimp and fish generally don't work - usually. Good luck.


----------



## JoeH

I don't think these small tetra will mess with them couple local guys have shrimp and tetras together and haven't had a prob with them. I got lots places for shrimp to hide anyways

well 230 am and everyone is still doing great but the one we lost.the 2 biggest black skirts seem to be doing a lot of snuggling so looks like they will be a pair. the shrimps crawling all over the mosses and rocks still they look to be having fun so I think ill sleep good tonight knowing everyone will still be there in the morning


----------



## JoeH

Just did this mornings water check

PH 7.6
PH High 7.4 (so I am assuming the actual PH of my water is like 7.4 just slightly above neutral?

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates abt 20 (cant tell the oranges so close so sometime today to be safe ill do a 50% water change just to be sure it isn't above 20 as water changes are always good to do when not sure


----------



## JoeH

Ok I just did a 45 gal water change so ill let the water circulate for a couple hrs and test it but I think its all good now and will set me up for sunday water changes.

The shrimps are out of their rock hideouts and are just eating up a storm. I even got to see the big one molt today it was like poof and theres a ghost looking husk floating to bottom of tank.

I am calling my big female Black skirt Nasty and her boyfriend Igor they have been swimming together and chasing each other around for most of the afternoon.

when I was changing water the whole school would follow me from one side of the tank to the other it was pretty cool.

Wife decided to go shopping out of town even after all this snow so no telling when she will get home with my batteries for pics lol.


----------



## JoeH

First up todays New Additions Meet Moe Curly and Larry my Super Red BN Plecos they are abt 1" long


----------



## JoeH

Next We have the Black skirts the first pic theres a partial one on top but next one down is Igor and right next to him not standing still is Nasty then the rest of the gang. in the second Pic is a better shot of Nasty and third pic is rest of the gang.

I can tell diff because Igor has 2 dark stripes and a little jagged in the back stripe and Nasty has a longer back stripe is rounder like the females are and her stripe fades towards the bottom.


----------



## JoeH

well the 3 plecos found their fav spots Moe (the biggest abt 1/8" longer than the other two) likes to munch on the driftwood and rocks piled on the driftwood. Larry likes the right corner of the tank sucking on the glass and hanging out by the plants, Curly loves the rock pile and java moss and made a new friend tonight with one the bigger shrimps. I put a veggie wafer by curly and one on far side by moe and larry.

Here is some pics of curly and his buddy


----------



## JoeH

Well trying to get my pic taking skills down and after 67 photos I got 3 that turned out lol dang fish move the sec you snap it. But Moe was a good boy hanging out on his log in his fav spot


----------



## JoeH

Finally the Cute Belly Shot


----------



## JoeH

well had to go out today to get antifreeze for father in laws truck which I am driving so I can run errands and check on him when he gets home. so went to Wally World man what a madhouse. some gal too busy texting ran her cart into the back of some guys heel and he went down in pain needless to say he got back up and tore into her.

so while i got the antifreeze I got a new jar of minced garlic since I was out and a can of french cut green beans and cucumbers were on sale for 75 cents so picked one of them up too. got home opened the beans and put a nice wad of garlic in there and plopped the lid on shook it up and put in fridge til lights out time tonight and I will drop one or two in there for the babies. they don't seem to find the algae wafers yet so either they got plenty to munch on on the wood rocks and things or too small to sniff them out lol. i need to get a vac to get the pieces out though.


----------



## JoeH

lol these plecos are pigs they whittling my driftwood down to nothing, then all over the glass (too much glass for them i need some kind of fish that cleans the glass, put 1/4 a zuchhini in there and they tearing it apart like ravenous dogs


----------



## JoeH

Couple Pics of my lil Voracious Critters


----------



## JoeH

the Zuc has been in for a couple days I will replace it with a fresh one today and blanch it too just so it makes it softer in case it will matter to them then rub with some more garlic


----------



## JoeH

Well I think I have an alpha male pleco he keeps chasing one Lil guy off his zucchini he says the whole 1/4 a Zuc is his ROFL I haven't seen the other one try yet but this one is persistent hes gonna get a piece from the bully ROFL so funny to watch I just hope 1 of the 3 is a female


----------



## JoeH

Well did my water change today, fed my plants its weekly dose of food, and got my plecos som dried shrimp pellets. I dropped 3 or 4 in to see what happens and within 3 mins one of my plecos sniffed one out and munched on it a little bit. think they need to soften up first for them.

Wife told me go get my catfish to keep the bottom of tank clean and wouldnt ya know they really didnt have anything i liked. I dont like albino or the green corys and the opne store said they hadnt gotten any sterbae in in several weeks so I found some nice looking Spotted Corys they look similar to the Sterbae but dont have the gold tone to them.

Store also had long fin black skirt tetras on sale for $1.00 each they only had 5 but they were really nice ones so i snatched them up. I figure they will school with the other black skirts and really look cool together.

Then cause I keep getting lil snails I went and bought me a really nice looking assassin snail.

will assassin snails kill mystery snails or just the small pest snails?

anyways will do pics later after everything settles in


----------



## JoeH

My First Video Need to learn How to edit them and to add music and take out my bs background sounds. What software you guys use to add music and edit?

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PDIF3KEA20&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]


----------



## JoeH

the more pale colored are the new long fins I am sure they will get their color back when they are unstressed But they are really having fun in their new tank. Now I need some color in the tank


----------



## SueD

Nice video. Love the way they are schooling together.

Re: the assassin -not sure about mystery snails but I have a nerite snail in my tank where I have assassins breeding and they have never touched him. The nerite has been in there well over a year and I have lots of assassins.


----------



## JoeH

Well Here is a pic of the Cory's in the Acclimation canister I got one from the top but I'm not good enough to tell males from females 2 of them have a different pattern than the rest I am guessing they aren't the same but they all seem to be doing just fine together. most of them have a lot of spots like a sterbae or Julii but 2 of them have a handful of big spots on them instead of the ton of little ones. I think they are the 2 smaller ones in the pic cant remember


----------



## JoeH

did my first water check in lil over a week since the tank was cycled. the PH is stable at 7.6 and high ph at 7.4 0 ammonia 0 nitrites, and nitrates at only 5 ppm.

my tank always seems slightly cloudy and never crystal clear what could cause this? maybe too much flake food? I only put a little pinch in the am and little in pm and the fish have it devoured before im finished pinching


----------



## m8d

Lookin nice


----------



## JoeH

how long can I keep my zuccini in the tanks before changing? this ones been 3 days but they are constantly all over it devouring it and I dont want to disturb them.


----------



## JoeH

well today was browsing in LFS and they had a sale on all their fish because of holidays and I came across some Platys and so got a half dozen and one of the females is abt to explode so i got a floating breeder thing I will put her in and hopefully wont be long and will have some baby platys


----------



## JoeH

Here is some pics one of my Corys, My Assassin Snail actually got out and exercised then went back and buried himself in the sand again I guess he just felt he wanted his picture taken, also a couple pics of my prego platy. Not sure how long it takes for the babies to develop and pop but I got her in a floating container in case cause she is really stretched out. shes not the prettiest thing but the rest really brighten up the tank I hope some of the babies have yellow in them to add even more color.


----------



## coralbandit

Put some of your live plants in the box so mom doesn't get to the fry.Your plants look good in the pics!She will hold for a couple more days probly.Look for a "squaring off" before she gives birth.


----------



## Vindoo

Greta thread..Just read thru it all, looking forward to seeing some fry!


----------



## JoeH

coralbandit said:


> Put some of your live plants in the box so mom doesn't get to the fry.Your plants look good in the pics!She will hold for a couple more days probly.Look for a "squaring off" before she gives birth.


this box has a V bottom so the fry can drop through away from the momma its small dont think be nuff room for her to swim if added one will trust the V helps and if she drops during the day I can get her out as soon as she is done


----------



## JoeH

man wife loves watching her shrimp lol now she keeps asking when they gonna have babies when they gonna have babies I think ive created a monster. looking carefully at all the shrimps none seem to be carrying eggs. would love some RCS or orange or blue shrimp so easier to see but im not gonna pay 3 and 4 dollars for an rcs at local fish store. they too common and ive never seen them listed anywhere for more than a buck each so ill wait til sub zero weather over so they can be safely shipped to me


----------



## jrman83

I haven't kept up on your thread, but be advised that assassin snails have been known to eat shrimp. For that matter, any other fish you have in there may also. You will need ground cover plants to give them a chance. Guppys will eat shrimp. I used to think they wouldn't until I saw a female guppy with a full-grown RCS half way down her throat. Before that I wondered why my population kept dwindling down. In general, shrimp and fish don't mix. It is possible they may leave the adult shrimp alone, but any young shrimp you have will be easy targets and they will not be smart enough to hide.


----------



## JoeH

I got tons hiding spots and they seem to all be doing well together sometimes the shrimp even school with the black skirts lol funny to see 3 shrimps swimming back and forth with the shrimp. still have 10 shrimps so none have gotten eaten yet

well 2nd week after cycle tank 70% stocked roughly water tests today 0, 0, 5.0 ppm so its doing really well.

on baby watch momma platy hasn't dropped yet but she is eating good

dunno why but water still cloudy. there is all kinds of fuzz on my driftwood its white figure maybe that has something to do with it so probably this weekend I think I will take it out and scrub it down with primed water and hopefully clean it up


----------



## JoeH

I was given a bunch of plants today a big amazon sword, 2 wimpy looking crypts (lol like only 1 stem i dunno what they supposed to look like) and a bunch of jungle val. the only prob is they have algae on them and i used my fingers and got some of it off but they just dont look all that appealing with the brown on them. is there any way to get rid of it and get nice bright green leaves? now when I put my sword in one of my plecos made a beeline to it and started munching algae so i am guessing eventually it will get cleaned off. are there small algae eater fish I can add to help the poor plecos? cause theres gonna be a good cleanup job but I dont want algae eaters that will get huge just ones that stay small.


----------



## coralbandit

Ottos are great little algae eaters ,but they need algae(all they eat I believe).
Otto Otocinclus affinis aquarium tropical fish from Tropical Fish and Aquariums
I wouldn't worry about existing leaves as plants can take a lot longer to acclimate to tanks than fish(like weeks) and often the existing leaves(or at least some of them) die.The way to tell if plant is doing well is by new growth,not how the existing leaves hold up.


----------



## jrman83

You should plant that Sword. Don't think it will last long like that. You can cut all but about 1" of the roots off and then replant. It won't hurt it. Since you have sand, you may also need to get some type of root tab to feed it.

Take all the bad looking leaves and just pull them off. Also, the base of that plant looks like it may be two. They will often start an offspring right next to the parent plant. If left there long enough it will start to look like one plant. Just saying maybe you have an option to split it. Not knowing what size tank this is and your lighting situation, Swords can completely engulf large areas of your tank. Great plants but they really need 150g tall tanks to stretch their legs.

Here is an old pic of mine in a 29g, it tookover half of the tank..leaves are touching the front, side, and back glass:


I also used to have two of them in one of my 125g tank and the leaves reached over 24" long. All of those were sent to susankat, the certified Sword rescue person for the forum


----------



## JoeH

Some pics of my plants roughly arranged. I made a nice big forest in the back corner of Jungle Val (I trimmed it back to abt 6" tall) put my Sword a little more off to the side by my rocks, and for now gonna keep the crypts up front.

when I can find it I need to get another bag of Pool Filter Sand as I think my substrate need to be deeper. I think once everything gets cleaned up, organized better, and growing it will look pretty good. I like the idea of the jungle val creating a nice thick forest in back corner of tank so it can hide baby fish etc I just wished the blades were really thin and wispy kinda like hair grass is. (is there any tall background plant that is like a tall (15" max) hair grass? I think that would look better that the val


----------



## JoeH

I will have to look into getting like 3 ottos I got enough food for them in there for a couple yrs or they just eat so much at once they look like puffed up puffer fish rofl


----------



## JoeH

jrman83 said:


> You should plant that Sword. Don't think it will last long like that. You can cut all but about 1" of the roots off and then replant. It won't hurt it. Since you have sand, you may also need to get some type of root tab to feed it.


I have a 75 gal tank that its in. the main thing bothering me is that from where I see the roots starting on the outside there seems to be like a hardish core in the center that I was afraid to trim it. the core is like a couple inches long then the hair roots start so it is making it so I have a tall looking plant. Would it hurt to trim that center core so I can plant the plant shallower?


----------



## jrman83

You can peel those leaves like layers from an onion. I wouldn't get too crazy, but you should have no issue trimming all of those brown looking leaves.


----------



## JoeH

its not the leavbes im wondering abt my plecos are going nuts and they are cleaning them good rofl they have already cleaned up 2 leaves pretty well.

I am mainly wondering abt that hard center core thing I feel that from the base of the plant goes for abt 2 inches then the fine roots start. if I can do something abt that center core I can lower the plant quite a bit and it will also look better


----------



## JoeH

wow anyone in northern midwest US be careful if you go out tonight. sunday night -50F below zero with windchill im in NW Illinois on border of Iowa and man is it gonna be cold lol mars is -56F on surface so we basically gonna be martians


----------



## JoeH

mama Platy had babies today I count 30 but shes not as fat but still see black in her is she done or more to go? maybe let her with rest of fish and any more babies let nature decide as i have tons hiding spots


----------



## JoeH

well I decided to let momma out with the rest if she has some more hopefully they will find the bushes.

First Pic is of my Sword you can see my plecos had a field day and its looking pretty green. I need to give them a day off they really worked hard. 

Next a couple pics of the fry


----------



## JoeH

well I'm down to 16 fry i think half of them decided to try and take chances out of the breeder. i don't think there is any way they made it the black skirts are watching it too closely. I am going to have to come up with something different next time maybe get some of that fine netting at walmart or michaels craft store thats just like net material and put it over the bottom slits so they cant get out


----------



## z1200

Well it may sound terrible BUT, I wouldn't be too concerned with the fry unless you have like a 5 gal to put the mother/fry into. You have enough live plants that you will just see a few new smaller fish every now and then. Some are smart enough to hide until they are large enough to live with the other fish. I have a Guppy breeding colony that I am currently trying to line breed and have never pulled a single fry from the tank.


----------



## JoeH

thanks yea I wouldn't be too concerned but the wife kinda wanted them to live as shes finally getting into having an aquarium and if she gets into it more i can get another later in the spring lol. besides I have a huge school of black skirts and they would never make it to the bottom of the tank


----------



## JoeH

I got to walmart today its -48 out with windchill but wife had a list for me to get and to visit her dad lol. but I got one of them net clip on side fry holders. I also got that fry food stuff that is powdered whatever it is algae and veggies and shrimp and some other stuff. they seem very happy in their new container and it will even fit my floating breeder so this way they can just fall through to the breeder net if they want.

BTW im at like 8 or 9 fry now unless there are a few hiding somewhere in the tank


----------



## JoeH

Now all my ghost shrimp are what I consider prob full sized they are huge. and with all the plants in the tank now they seem to come out in the open all the time (they used to the bigger ones but the smaller used to hide now they all out) but I dont see any carrying eggs and just curious how you tell males from females and how often do they breed?


----------



## JoeH

well I caught one of my plecos cleaning the assassin snails shell. he moved some when i got the camera but it was cute to watch the snail just chugging along and the lil pleco munching down all over his shell.


----------



## JoeH

well had one of my red plecos die this am. the rest were doing ok and I tested water everything was fine so prob just bad heart. guy gonna replace him this spring with a long fin albino when they grow enough.

then tonight had an emergency I made new batch of CO2 for my bottles and it started pumping out then few hrs later I noticed fish at top of tank gasping for breath. I raised spraybar above waterline to break up the surface more and release the gas and changed abt 15% of the water and they seem to be doing fine now but it was a scare.


----------



## jrman83

How many bottles are you running on the tank?


----------



## coralbandit

1^ with jr,with the added statement "you'd need to be running a WHOLE BUNCH of bottles to overdose a 75G with DIY co2".


----------



## JoeH

I was just running 2 2litre bottles at the time but all the fish were gasping at the top so i turned it off and changed water and they were fine
not had a prob since I think I made too strong a batch


----------



## z1200

JoeH said:


> Now all my ghost shrimp are what I consider prob full sized they are huge. and with all the plants in the tank now they seem to come out in the open all the time (they used to the bigger ones but the smaller used to hide now they all out) but I dont see any carrying eggs and just curious how you tell males from females and how often do they breed?


I just noticed this post, Ghosties won't successfully reproduce in your tank, although you will see females carrying green eggs from time to time. I think they need a brackish setup to breed. If your looking to breed shrimp, Red cherry shrimp will breed but most fish will knock the babies out if they are small enough to fit in their mouth.


----------

