# Fishes dying pls help!



## vicky1327 (Nov 21, 2012)

HI all.. my tank is kinda really small one.. i guess shd be around 6g.. i had two orange zebras and 2 neon tetras to start with. later after 2 months i stocked it with 2 gold fishes and 2 fishes( it was silver bottom and gold top.not a lion head though... how is this fish called??) jus after a week of introducing these 4 new fishes.. the one gold died.. and i cleaned the tank fully and put it all in again... and within the next two days all the other fishes died... i m left with only one of the first zebras and a suckercat( or tank cleaner however u call it)....
can you pls help me so tht i can ve a vibrant collection tht my tank would support.. 
PS: after the cleaning, the tank got totally turbid the very next day which never happened in the first two months before introducing the 4 fishes.. is it because the gold eats and excretes more?? pls suggest me how to care.. and also some friendly fishes that would make my tank look good. its a kind of starting over afresh...so kindly suggest me what i shd do to start with..including the fishes i can put in..thanking you in advance!! 

I promise to put the fotos of the new one once i am done by the end of the week!!


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Welcom Vicky1327, and do you have any water test kits, and need you to use them and tell us what are the following condition of your tank: ph, temp, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. It would really help to know the size of your tank...can you give us mesurments h, w, depth...from the outside is ok...just need an idea of gal. it already sounds like too many fish in to small a place...how often, and of what are you feeding and how much?
Finally you cleaned the tank fully can mean a little or a whole bunch of trouble, for example a general clean (squeeze out sponge, and vacum the tank) not much, but a big clean..(scrub the tank, clean out the gravel and wash it, replace filter sytem or pads...and do it all at the same time) that can be a serious problem since it could break your tank cycle. Hope this helps. Larry


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow, six gallons. Thats very small for most anything, other than a select few. A single betta fish, a small group of pygmi sunfishes, some scarlet badis I think can fit. Thats about it other than some shrimp though you would be best with larger for a decent colony of those as well. Your issue is overstocking drastically.

Goldfishes, fancies need 30 gallons for the first, 10 for each additional ones. Comets need even larger and are more suited to ponds.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Vicky, you've been had by the oldest pet scam in the aquarium trade.
I could put it softly and encourage you to make things slightly better but unfortunately, that won't help you in the long run.
Fishkeeping is not a cheap hobby for the beginner. It's cheaper in the long-run though.
A 6g tank is a stupid size to sell anyone with goldfish, neons or danio - let alone all 3!
As Bev said, it's a good size for a siamese fighter - that's pretty much it. but 6g can hold some nice plants though - which make it a nicer eco-system overall.
you can do something like this quite easily in a short amount of time:

Here's the catch though - you need to either get a fish buddy that knows a fair amount and can guide you, read lots of the sticky posts on the forum about stocking levels, fishless cycling, basic tank maintenance etc, get a book or some combination of the above.
The general uninitiated public has very little awareness about what goes on in a tank, the nitrogen cycle and how little maintenance is actually required in a properly set-up fish tank.
My suggestion to you would be to get yourself a 20g tank, go through the fishless cycle and then stock it very lightly for at least 6 months. In those 6 months, focus on plants and a basic "aquascape" I promise you that plants are the most interesting thing about the hobby and itchy fingers with plants is much easier to bear!
Here's a photo of my 15g tank that I started with just a year ago - after masses of pruning to give you an idea of what's easy to do in a tank that size.

cb


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

There lovely pics cb, how many Neons have you got. I love to see a shoal of Neons.btw I agree with both Vicky about what to put in 6 gallons unless at some point you're able to upgrade on Tank size.


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## vicky1327 (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you ppl for ur valuble advice... 
@larry : i ve not got the kit yet.. coz its only now tht i ve learnt tht there is a need fr one and i ve ordered one and hoping to get it delivered by this week.. its really a small one. not even 10g.. and yea i clean out everything i scrub the tank and the gravels and filters too... once in two weeks... is tht not the right way to do?? i was advised by one of my frnd who earlier maintained aquariums.. 

@majerah : yea i know its too small i thot it wud be good.. but as u guys suggested i ll upgrade it to at least to a 20g tank by december... 

@cb : beautiful pictures..... yea i admit my tank is small.. will upgrade it soon to a 20g... guide me one growing the plants in it.. i ll do the fishless cycle.. and is it ok to stock the 20g with 2 pairs of mollies and black skirt tetras?? i ve already put them in my 6g tank... is it ok??? as far as the siamese fighter:betta:.. i ve got a 6 inch pot separately to house him :fish-in-a-bag:


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Upgrading to a 20g by december is a great idea but that means getting a lot of research in.
Choices you need to make:
Lighting - I suggest 40-60W of fluorescent lighting or 20-40W of LED Lighting such as TMC Grobeams (I use these)
Substrate - there are many suggestions out there
Plants: Start with fast growing stem plants that will help stabilize ammonia and nitrites early on - makes for a more stable tank. Java fern is a favorite which is pretty hard to kill and looks great established in the tank.
CO2/Seachem Excell - a great sources of carbon for plants plus ferts.
cb


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## vicky1327 (Nov 21, 2012)

@cb: thats a great idea!! I ll do with java ferns ... and for the lighting i prefer LED to fluorescent... am doing my own 30W LED set up.... and is it ok to ve sand instead of gravels for a freshwater tank??


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

cleaning the whole tank (in the manner you did) is a sure fire way to have problems,if not kill most in tank.Vacumming part of gravel along with partial water change is fine.Removing all you did also removed ( I would guess )a large amount of the beneficial bacteria your tank and inhabitants require.Cleaning the filter cartridge by "swishing around in bucket of water you vacummed from tank" is safe way to remove debris from cartridge without killing the good bacteria.De-chlorinate and try to have replacement water "close "to tank temp.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Vicky,
I'd advise against DIY LED lights - and that's from someone that loves DIY.
The reason is that there is a LOT going on with lighting and mistakes here will make or break the ecosystem.
TMC Grobeams are what I use and they're phenomenal. The only other supplier I'd consider would be the 30W arcadia spots.
Java fern is not a stem plant. I advocate using stem plants during initial cycling and java fern for a beginner's tank for long-term.
Probably the hardiest stem is limnophilla sesiflora or aquatica. Another great nutrient soak is Hygro Difformis- both grow like weeds in my setup.
cb


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

vicky1327 said:


> Thank you ppl for ur valuble advice...
> @larry : i ve not got the kit yet.. coz its only now tht i ve learnt tht there is a need fr one and i ve ordered one and hoping to get it delivered by this week.. its really a small one. not even 10g.. and yea i clean out everything i scrub the tank and the gravels and filters too... once in two weeks... is tht not the right way to do?? i was advised by one of my frnd who earlier maintained aquariums..
> 
> @majerah : yea i know its too small i thot it wud be good.. but as u guys suggested i ll upgrade it to at least to a 20g tank by december...
> ...



Hello Vicky

I see you asked is it okay that you.ve put 2 pairs of mollies and black skirts in the six gallon or am i reading that wrong? 'IF' you have that number of fish in your 6 gallon you (and the fish) are really going to be struggling,especially reading you've thoroughly cleaned everything including the filter. 'If' that's what you mean you're way overstocked especially as they will going through the cycling of the tank.IMP if this is correct i think their doomed,just my opinion though.
Also i can;t help wondering what you mean about a 6" pot to seperately house your Betta
Are you meaning you're going to keep a Betta living in 6" space

I am confused a bit with the post (not unusual for me lol)
goldie


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Vicky, when you get your kit...collect those perameters and post them, in the meantime prepare some water for a water change...get temp correct and treat water with products to dechlorinate and decholomine. Have enough for a large water change...please reduce the method of tank cleaning down to general that to say water change, vacume bottom...if sponge filters squeeze them out in tank water (not in the tank, but water from the tank into a container). You are over stocked but that we will have to work on...Do you have access to another small tank at a cheap price...for example here in Waco TX. I can get a 10g tank for $12 walmart...understand something you cannot just get a tank and put fish in tap water, for you would have to bring tank home and work on how to cycle the tank...which it's likely your present tank is out of cycle, but we will determine that when you post your test results..fear not we will help you get through the problems. LT


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

*w2*w2*w2 Oh I forgot to say Welcome Vicky1327


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## vicky1327 (Nov 21, 2012)

@goldie: whatever u have understood is right.. i ve six of them in tht tank!! by now i know i ve overstocked my tank! but i ve already purchased a new 2ft tank.. its 2ftX1ftX1ft tank!! think it shd hold abt 20g of water.. did not set it up yet... i did give my tank a 100% cleaning and new water a week earlier..and yes its a 6" pot for the betta... but once i change the other fishes to bigger tank.. i ll change this betta to the existing 6g tank.. hope tht ll be better!!

@Larry: thank u fr the welcome bro!!  I can get a smaller tank fr considerably a cheap rate.. 

and ok.. as i told u i ve got tht new tank and i want to keep it as a planted one.. thts wat i am looking for now!! so i wud jus need some help on tht.. abt the filters i shd use... plants.... and if these two are enough to grow the needed bacterias..how many days shd i let the tank run empty fr it to be cycled??..i am just getting to understand the cycling method slowly so kindly bear with my stupid questions..


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Vicky,
from your post, it transpires that you've still haven't read about fishless cycling.
You can't just fill a tank and run it for 4 weeks and hey-presto it's cycled.
I'd normally post a link to fishless cycling at this point but it won't help you.
Without a source of ammonia in the tank, the tank just becomes a water reservoir.
Without lights, you can't grow plants.
So your option is to lightly stock the new tank and perform frequent water changes guided by the ammonia and nitrate levels in your tank.
The filter must be left on permanently.
You should feed very sparingly it won't harm the fish.
You must use a dechlorinator.
You must add water at approximately the same temperature as the tank.
You must leave the filter on at all times.
I hope you also have a heater as you have tropical fish.
You MUST measure ammonia levels on a daily basis - this will guide you to keep levels below 0.25ppm.
If you measure 0.5ppm and you want 0.25ppm you have to change 50% of the water. Overnight the fish will produce ammonia too so rather do 60% and aim for 0.2ppm
Two 25% water changes do not make a 50% water change. They make a 44% water change.
Prime is a good dechlorinator for a new tank as it makes ammonia levels more forgiving.
Adding plants and light reduces ammonia and nitrate levels.
- and this is just scratching the surface of the subject.
cb


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

vicky1327 said:


> @goldie: whatever u have understood is right.. i ve six of them in tht tank!! by now i know i ve overstocked my tank! but i ve already purchased a new 2ft tank.. its 2ftX1ftX1ft tank!! think it shd hold abt 20g of water.. did not set it up yet... i did give my tank a 100% cleaning and new water a week earlier..and yes its a 6" pot for the betta... but once i change the other fishes to bigger tank.. i ll change this betta to the existing 6g tank.. hope tht ll be better!!
> 
> @Larry: thank u fr the welcome bro!!  I can get a smaller tank fr considerably a cheap rate..
> 
> and ok.. as i told u i ve got tht new tank and i want to keep it as a planted one.. thts wat i am looking for now!! so i wud jus need some help on tht.. abt the filters i shd use... plants.... and if these two are enough to grow the needed bacterias..how many days shd i let the tank run empty fr it to be cycled??..i am just getting to understand the cycling method slowly so kindly bear with my stupid questions..


oops sorry vicky your post had got lost in the welcomes and i usually get e mail notification when someone answers but sometimes not or i would have answered your post
I'll read it properly in a while


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## vicky1327 (Nov 21, 2012)

@cb : yea i went through the fishless cycle process.. and thats what am aiming to do with the new tank.. and thats why i was asking what plant to use and how many days my tank must be empty befor puttin in the fishes!!

@goldie: thats ok... no prob


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I've read it now Vicky,apart from anything else it's sounding like the Betta s going to be in a 6" pot for quite some while

Must go thinks to do.


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