# BIG Nitrtie spike!



## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

So I am doing an Fish In cycle on my first tank, as some of you may know. 

I believe the ammonia consuming bacteria colony is firmly established, as I haven't had an ammonia reading past .25 PPM in over a week. 

I can't say the same for Nitrites... This is quite the battle!

Yesterday, I read what I thought was around 1PPM... So today I did a 70% water change... I did not check the levels just prior to the change. 2 hours AFTER the change, my nitrite levels are off the charts, it would seem. Or very near 5PPM. So I'm going to do another significant water change tomorrow... 

I know this is the nitrogen cycle taking its natural course, so I'm pleased that it's happening... My concern is with the water changes... If I have to do three or four 50%+ water changes over the nest few days, is that going to have any kind of adverse effect on the progress I have made so far? Trying not to move backwards. How much longer should I expect to have to chase these nitrite levels before the bacterial colony that converts nitrites into nitrates becomes established? I mean, obviously there is plenty of nitrite in the tank to feed on!  

Is there anything else I can do to make this nitrite spike a little less stressful on the two tank inhabitants? I mean, if it's going to spike to the tune of 3-4PPM increases per day, I can't do much in the way of water changes while I am at work / sleeping. That would be a constant struggle trying to keep the levels less than 1PPM


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

You need to do an 80% water change immediately and follow up with whatever size is needed to keep your levels below 1ppm. Your water will have very little in the way of bacteria so your cycle will not be disturbed. Unfortunately with a fish in cycle you could still be looking at as much as 5 weeks.
My concern is with only two fish your levels should not be rising this fast, are you overfeeding? have you tested your tap water? something is not adding up!!


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

What are you using to test with? API liquid or strips? Hopefully API liquid. Anyways, I wonder if maybe your level was so high that it registered falsly lower than it really was. The reason I wonder this is because a while back I was watching a video on Dr Tim's website that had to do with nitrite testing. It mentioned something about doing a dilution because high concentrations of nitrites can be so high the kit cant register the true amount, giving you a false reading. I can't quote what he said because it was so long ago, so maybe go check out that video. The feeling I get is your results showed X ppm, then you did a massive water change and it read 5X ppm. Essentially, your massive water change was a dilution on a large scale which ended up showing you what your true reading was. If this sounds wrong, somebody please watch that video and correct me because I don't want to give out false info, but this is what it sounds like to me.

Found the link!! 
How to Use Water Test Kits - DrTim's Aquatics - YouTube

Around 4:40 is where you start getting in to false low readings and dilutions. Hope this helps!


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

I did have an overfeeding issue... I'm not doing that anymore, but I may be seeing the effects of that now... I hear it can take quite a while for uneaten food to start releasing ammonia... I thought I got most of it out, but there may have been quite a bit left in there.

I'd hope I'm towards the peak of my Nitrite phase of the cycle... That'll be nice when this is all over and I can relax a little


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

MriGuy85 said:


> What are you using to test with? API liquid or strips? Hopefully API liquid. Anyways, I wonder if maybe your level was so high that it registered falsly lower than it really was. The reason I wonder this is because a while back I was watching a video on Dr Tim's website that had to do with nitrite testing. It mentioned something about doing a dilution because high concentrations of nitrites can be so high the kit cant register the true amount, giving you a false reading. I can't quote what he said because it was so long ago, so maybe go check out that video. The feeling I get is your results showed X ppm, then you did a massive water change and it read 5X ppm. Essentially, your massive water change was a dilution on a large scale which ended up showing you what your true reading was. If this sounds wrong, somebody please watch that video and correct me because I don't want to give out false info, but this is what it sounds like to me.
> 
> Found the link!!
> How to Use Water Test Kits - DrTim's Aquatics - YouTube
> ...


I am indeed using the API liquid test kit. Thanks for the link! I'll check it out... This could be exactly what happened...


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

I would be interested to know if it is the culprit. Let us know  that would be very scary because that would mean your nitrites are off the chart and the little guys are in imminent danger.


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

So I just did a 90% water change... I figured the more the better with nitrites still reading 5.0+ just before the change. 

I'm gonna wait for another hour or so before testing again... I hope to see something I can at least read on the color chart...

I did test the water from my filling source, and it has 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites... So everything I am seeing from the tank tests is coming from the tank, not the tap.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow. I wonder where that nitrite is coming from?? There's only two fish in the tank? How big is the tank? It almost sounds like you may have a ton of crud in your substrate. Have you been cleaning that as well as water changes?


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

MriGuy85 said:


> Wow. I wonder where that nitrite is coming from?? There's only two fish in the tank? How big is the tank? It almost sounds like you may have a ton of crud in your substrate. Have you been cleaning that as well as water changes?


Yes, I've been vacuuming the substrate with every water change... 

So, the good news is I am now reading .25PPM Nitrites... Which, after a 90% water change, would suggest I was only at 2.5PPM before the change... Perhaps closer to three... 

On the test kit the difference in color between 2PPM and 5PPM is so hard to distinguish (at least to my blind eyes) that I can only assume I was reading it wrong?

I'm well within good levels now, so I'll just watch it like a hawk...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think what you saw was abnormal. The nitrite spike will occur fast and is usually not gradual like ammonia may be. The nitrite spike occurs because the bacteria is processing the ammonia at a fairly quick rate. Once you get past that initial spike it will usually level off and is manageable from there. You still need to watch it. I would stop feeding until your cycle has finished.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Has the spike leveled off now? Still persistent?


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> Has the spike leveled off now? Still persistent?


Still seeing the same trend... Not as quick to spike now, about .5PPM rise per day... I've started using Prime instead of Stress Coat as a water conditioner during changes, which claims to detoxify Nitrites... I'm hoping that will at least buy me a little time in case I can't change the water right away for whatever reason.

I got my son a 20G Marineland kit. When I set that up on Monday, I absolutely plan on doing a fishless cycle... I've already picked up a bottle of Ammonia from Ace hardware (the one everyone recommends)... That should be HEAPS easier than this fish-in business... Not having to worry about water changes will be nice... Just let the cycle do what it's gonna do... Have my fingers crossed that the cycle will be complete by Christmas so he can use his gift cards to stock the tank... Should be fun!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What is your nitrite level?

If you follow the suggestion to dose everyday in the fishless thread, you should be done in less than 2wks. For your new tank. Taking media from your current tank will help. Even though it is not finished, it still has progressed some of the way.


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

After a few days my Nitrites were at 1PPM, so I did a 75% change, and now I'm at an expected .25PPM... Seems to be tapering off...

The 20G is holding at 4PPM of ammonia, so no bacteria forming yet. I'm kinda curious to see how quickly the nitrite spikes in that tank keeping ammonia at 4PPM during the process... The bacteria colonies that develop during the fishless cycle must be pretty massive based on how much you shock the tank with ammonia... Seems to be a lot more than you would get using fish...

As far as media, should I take out some of the ceramic bio-rings from the top basket of my canister and drop em in the HOB for the 20G tank? Would that work?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

I would suggest leaving your partly cycled tank alone until it finishes. Are you getting any nitrate readings yet?
Doing the fishless cycle will allow you to fully stock your 20 gallon immediately following the cycles completion, one of the best features of the fishless cycle.


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

I am getting Nitrate, yes... Seems to be a slow increase though... Like the colony that converts nitrite > nitrate is just getting off the ground. 

I haven't read ammonia over .25 in a couple of weeks now, so I'm pretty confident that colony is good to go...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

dam718 said:


> After a few days my Nitrites were at 1PPM, so I did a 75% change, and now I'm at an expected .25PPM... Seems to be tapering off...
> 
> The 20G is holding at 4PPM of ammonia, so no bacteria forming yet. I'm kinda curious to see how quickly the nitrite spikes in that tank keeping ammonia at 4PPM during the process... The bacteria colonies that develop during the fishless cycle must be pretty massive based on how much you shock the tank with ammonia... Seems to be a lot more than you would get using fish...
> 
> As far as media, should I take out some of the ceramic bio-rings from the top basket of my canister and drop em in the HOB for the 20G tank? Would that work?


For the 20g, are you using the method where you add ammonia everyday?


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> For the 20g, are you using the method where you add ammonia everyday?


Kinda, yes... I am checking ammonia levels every day and adding as necessary to maintain 4PPM

Should I be adding more every day beyond 4PPM and just let the levels go through the roof?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Add the amount it took to get to 4ppm everyday till you see nitrites.Don't even bother testing for ammonia again.Test for nitrites in a week or so.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes. Stop testing for ammonia...its best to say it will be there. Dose everyday the amount it initially took you to get to 4ppm. Do this until you detect nitrites. Once you detect them, cut your dose in half and dose every 4 days. Don't test for ammonia again until you start to see nitrites start to drop. You can test for ammonia all you want but it is no use using the method I described. I have cycled my last two tanks in about 10 days doing it this way. Dose and wait will not drive things to happen like you should be doing. There is no fish....dose away.


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## dam718 (Nov 25, 2013)

I guess I misunderstood what they meant... I thought they meant to bring it back to 4PPM every day, not to shock the heck out of it and effectively bump it up 4PPM every day... Haha, that's a lot of ammonia! I'll start doing that!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your ammonia levels will be much higher than 4ppm. You will be dosing that much everyday and nothing is processing it yet so it continues to climb. That is why there is no need to test for it.


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