# Thought I knew what I was doing.....



## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hello

We just got a 38 gallon tank about 3 weeks ago. We upgraded from a 10 gallon tank that we had for years. Never had a problem with tank cycling and everything I had heard with bigger tanks was that it was suppose to be easy. Well I was wrong, lol.

We set the tank up and left it running for about 2 days prior to adding any fish. Here is a list of equipment:

38 gallon tank
AquaClear 70 Filter
Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth PRO Heater 200W
Top Fin Air Pump 4000 with two stones (inside decorations)

This was a kit from Jacks pet store, got a good deal on it. We added our fish from the 10 gallon tank into this one after 2 days of having it up and running. We only had a golden tetra and a larger Plecostomus. Both seemed ok for the time they were in the tank.

Now on to the mistake, we got a bit over excited buying new fish to stock this tank. I think we got about 20 fish (never had a problem in the past adding fish so I didn't really think anything about it). Well we have now lost about half of those, and several of the others are showing signs of stress.

Currently we have in this tank:
2 Plecostomus (1 large and 1 small)
2 Dalmation Mollys
2 Silver tail Mollys
3 Black Mollys
1 Albine Cory Cat
1 Panda Cory Cat
1 Betta
3 Guppies (Tequila Sunrise and an Orange tail I think)

I was originally told to do a 10-15 percent water change 1-2 times a week during the first month while the tank cycles. Well after losing all of these fish I decided today to pick up some test strips for ammonia and PH. This time the person I talked to told me I shouldn't do any water changes for the first 30 days while the tank cycles.

The test strips show a 3.0 for ammonia which the bottle says is harmful
For Nitrates it showed a 60
Nitrites was an between a 5 and 10 (bottle doesn't get any more precise than that..)
Hardness was a 150 which says its hard
Chlorine was a 0 (thats a good thing, lol)
Alkalinity was was high
PH was around an 8

These are after I did a partial water change this morning as one of the mollys developed a bulging eye.

Sorry for the novel here, if I have to loose all of these fish then so be it, but I would rather try to save these if I can. I've heard chemicals can complicate things so I don't think that is the route.

Thanks for any and all advice!!

Mike from Ohio


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Mike, welcome.

Obviously, losing that many fish is a surefire sign that you didn't follow proper cycling techniques. The biggest and most obvious problem is that you only waited 2 days to add fish. An aquarium's nitrogen cycle takes weeks to establish equilibrium, and needs a constant source of ammonia. Sadly, thus far your fish and the deceased have been the source of the ammonia. Without nitrifying bacteria colonies to process said ammonia, it overwhelmed your tank and killed all but the strongest of your fish.

Your fish are still suffering. Not only from high ammonia, but now high nitrite as well. Do an immediate 50% partial water change and continue doing them for the next few days, testing your water an hour after each PWC, until your ammonia and nitrite concentrations are back under control. If you don't, you will lose more fish.

Don't change more than 50% of your tank's water, and don't do it more than once daily, or the sudden influx of fresh water could shock not only your fish but the bacteria which are trying to colonize your tank.

I'm glad you went and got yourself a testing kit, as most people don't see the need for one. Did you get test strips, or a liquid test kit?


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

I purchased the test strips, one bottle is for ammonia only and the other is a 6 in 1 kit for the others. Are the liquid kits better? or is this ok?

I will be doing the 50% water change right now. I'll check things again in the morning and go from there. I appreciate the help, now I just wished I had purchased one of those hose kits for the faucet to save me from having to haul buckets back and forth lol.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Pythons are definitely a great tool. Make sure when you add new tap water to your tank that you have added dechlorinator (tap water conditioner) to the water BEFORE you add it to the tank, as chlorine is toxic to fish. Also, try not to dump the water but siphon it in to reduce the chance of shocking your fish with sudden pH and temperature shifts.

I prefer liquid kits myself. They are much more accurate and precise than the test strips, and they get a better bang for your buck (a single kit can be good for as many as 100 tests). The only downside is that the liquid kits are more involved - there's some mixing, some shaking, and it's a little more time consuming than the shake-and-check strips. I can test pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alkalinity, hardness, phosphate, iron, and copper in about twenty minutes on one of my tanks.

Glad to hear you're taking immediate action. I'll cross my fingers for your fish.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

FWIW, I have never siphoned water back into the tank. Small tanks this may be practical, but larger tanks.....

Keep watching the Molly after your water changes and see if it improves. Is you 10 still setup up to move it to and medicate if necessary? If you get an API master fw kit, you'll be much happier in the info it provides. The info a liquid test kit gives is much more granular and needed especially during a cycling tank. Try to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels at 1 or below. If it gets higher, do a water change. If it stays at or below you should be fine.

Did you re-use anything from your 10g? Items from it can help speed up the cycle on your new tank.


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## roacan (Dec 25, 2010)

Hi,

You might want to check out tetra safe start. It might help cycle the tank quicker.

There is a poll in this forum and it looks like the majority have success in using it.
Important: If you've used Tetra Safe Start, please take this poll


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

roacan said:


> You might want to check out tetra safe start. It might help cycle the tank quicker.


I agree. I had a tank cycled in ten days with TSS


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks guys! I will take a look into that TSS stuff as soon as I can. The only thing I reused from the 10 gallon tank was just some of the water (fish guy recommended it when I bought this tank). The decorations and gravel and stuff were several years old and we wanted new stuff for this one. So no I don't currently have it setup to use as a second tank if needed (didn't think that far ahead....)

I remember seeing a liquid kit at the pet store that had several bottles of stuff in it for like 30 bucks (about the same as the 2 things of test strips I bought) I guess I should have went with my instinct and got it LOL

I'll be completing my second 50% water change later and will post back with my test strip results then.


Thanks again!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

defiant79 said:


> I'll be completing my second 50% water change later and will post back with my test strip results then.


Glad to hear you're taking care of your fish. How is the one with popeye?

Are you dechlorinating the tap water you are adding to the tank? Chlorine is toxic as well.

I would consider setting up your spare tank and beginning to cycle it as well, to use as a quarantine tank for when you decide to replenish your original fish population. The sooner it is cycled, the better.

Also, TSS = Tetra SafeStart, a bottle of bacteria cultures that you can add to your tank.


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Glad to hear you're taking care of your fish. How is the one with popeye?
> 
> Are you dechlorinating the tap water you are adding to the tank? Chlorine is toxic as well.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have been dechlorinating the water. I got some Bio-Boost that came with tank, its Jacks Aquarium and Pets branded. Is this the same as the Tetra SafeStart or at least accomplish the same thing?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

defiant79 said:


> I got some Bio-Boost that came with tank, its Jacks Aquarium and Pets branded. Is this the same as the Tetra SafeStart or at least accomplish the same thing?


Yes


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

Well after the second 50% water change the ammonia levels are at .5ppm according to the test strip.

the nitrates are at 20
Nitrites still are between a 5 and 10 according to the chart
Hardness is the same
Chlorine is 0
Both the Alkalinity and PH are registering as high.

I realize that some fish like a PH of 8+ so should I really be all that concerned about this one?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

defiant79 said:


> Well after the second 50% water change the ammonia levels are at .5ppm according to the test strip.
> 
> the nitrates are at 20
> Nitrites still are between a 5 and 10 according to the chart
> ...


Your tank is in the second phase of a cycle (the nitrite spike). Keep doing the 50% PWC's daily to if not lower the nitrites, then at least control their rise. Eventually your tank will develop colonies of nitrospira bacteria (nitrosomonas are the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite) which will deal with the nitrite. Sounds like there's already a little nitrospira in the tank since you're getting nitrate readings. But for now, keep on those PWC's.

Don't worry about the pH. What is your reading though, out of curiosity?


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Don't worry about the pH. What is your reading though, out of curiosity?


The test strips I have have 5 different things on the label for the bottle ranging from 6.2-8.4, the color of the strip it just a hair lighter than the 8.4, but its still darker than the 7.8 that is under it. I'll try to get a chemical test kit in the next day or to so I can maybe get a bit more precise.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

My water is at a constant pH of 7.6-8.0, and everything in my tank is happy and healthy. I inject pressurized CO2 into my main tank though, so that ends up lowering my pH artificially to about 7.0. The water out of my tap is 7.8.

How are your fish doing?


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

So far everything seems to be staying the same. We had an albine Plecostomus that I forgot to mention, and it died yesterday after I did the 50% water change. The one molly still has the swollen eye, looks a bit better to me but I'm not 100% sure if its really changed or if its just wishful thinking.

Also our betta attacked a guppy just a few minutes ago, so I lost a guppy. Never had a problem with the betta attacking other fish (granted this is a new betta so maybe I got a bad tempered one), or the water problems could be agitating the betta possibly.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Is it a male betta? If so, get him his own tank or he will kill others.

He might be feeling better and feistier, hence the attack after you started your water changes.


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## glassbird (Feb 2, 2011)

"This time the person I talked to told me I shouldn't do any water changes for the first 30 days while the tank cycles."

"The only thing I reused from the 10 gallon tank was just some of the water (fish guy recommended it when I bought this tank)."

Wow, you are getting some seriously bad advice. It would make me very happy if you could locate the whackos you gave you this advice, and smack them upside the head for me.

Wrong, and wrong.


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

Well just to update everyone so far everything is great now. The water is testing fine, and I'm still doing PWC as needed. I think the tank may have finally cycled. We haven't lost anymore fish thankfully.

I tried to upload some photos to the gallery but I keep getting errors.

Thanks again!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Glad to hear things are better and no more fatalities. Now, on to some fun stuff...have you thought about planting some live plants in your tank?


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## defiant79 (Mar 3, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Glad to hear things are better and no more fatalities. Now, on to some fun stuff...have you thought about planting some live plants in your tank?


No I have never thought about live plants before. How difficult is it to do? Any additional maintance I would have to perform?

I'd love to do anything to make the tank look nicer and help the fish out. I seen a video someone had posted somewhere on this site of someone handing feeding their Pleco, I'm so jealous of that. LOL


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

defiant79 said:


> No I have never thought about live plants before. How difficult is it to do? Any additional maintance I would have to perform?


Plants will, if anything, reduce the necessity to do maintenance. They'll also make your tank much more aesthetically pleasing to the eye, will improve the water clarity and quality, and reduce stress on your fish by giving them a more natural environment to live in.

Plants need little to grow. Really, it's just three things - light, fresh water, and dirty gravel with some root fertilization tablets or plant-specific "substrate". I grew three plants in a ten gallon with regular aquarium gravel, regular light, and weekly 50% partial water changes and I've had the same plants ever since, three years later.

Lots of us on here are fully addicted to aquarium keeping and do crazy stuff like inject carbon dioxide into the water, add weird things to the substrate like peat moss, potting clay, etc., put in really high-efficiency high-intensity lights, and dose dry chemical fertilizers to feed our plants just as much as feeding our fish.

One day you might join us, but for now a few live plants in your tank will make your fish very happy and you'll end up liking them much more than plastic plants. They reduce the need for frequent water changes because they in fact consume nitrates in the water, and they thrive off of dirty gravel, so you don't need to vacuum your gravel as much. They also produce oxygen and consume carbon dioxide, which has many benefits, and a heavy enough plant load can enable you to do away with a filter altogether (look in past threads for what's called a "beaslbob build" - a heavily planted tank that requires no filtration or water changes).


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