# Starting a 5 gallon Marine Tank



## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm going to be keeping a goby/shrimp pair and a firefish. 

I will be mixing live sand and crushed coral for substrate. About 3" deep. Plan on using pvc to make premade burrow for the shrimp/goby. 

I plan on getting live rock and waiting a few weeks before adding first fish. 

Also planning on some other inverts down the line.

My question is, does anyone recommend a HOB protein skimmer? Is it even worth my while? If I were to buy one, I would prefer one that is a skimmer and filter in one. Seen mixed reviews on the Rio nano skimmer/filter. 

I already have the tank/hood; heater, HOB filter rated for 10 gallon, and the crushed coral. 

Need sand and rock that I will buy locally.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

My thought is, I'm not going to get a protein skimmer and just use the filter I already have. The money for the skimmer would be better spent on a power head anyway. 

And the box of salt mix that does 15 gallons being ~$10, that comes out to less than a dollar per 10% water change. Works for me.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You don't need the skimmer as you said you can effiecently change water to remove nutrients.Careful with the depth of your sand;any deeper and anarobic pockets can develope and poison your tank,and you are giving up precious space in a very small tank.The fire fish will probably not be happy in such a small tank, but if you get him keep the lid closed tight as they are know to jump from decent sized tanks.Good luck!


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

My fish selection is based off of a 5 gallon suggestion I read in a book. They suggested the 2 fish and the sand depth. But I guess if I'm doing the pvc burrow/tunnel the depth of the sand becomes less important at that point. 

More reading suggests that a filter is more or less to move water and less about filtering in SW tanks. So my filter should only have some floss and a few pieces of rubble; correct? 

How about some extra crushed coral in the filter bag? Would that make a difference?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

With live sand and live rock in such a small tank you really don't even need a filter as all (most)bio activity will take place in tank.Ya crushed coral(more) is probably better in the filter than bio media.Macro algaes like caluerpe are most useful in filter.The filter as you said is really only going to be a source of circulation.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks a lot. Hopefully getting this show on the road soon.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

While we're at it, is there any fish that would would recommend as a substitution to the firefish? Through my reading, most fish that are suitable for these smaller tanks are also relatively aggressive and territorial.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

No, your tank is to small for what your stocking it with now. I would only recommend Inverts and Corals only.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

So what you're telling me is the author that wrote the book i got my idea from is full of it?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Sorry, come up with what you want. Look up pretty much any fish care site, and it will give you minimum tank size of any given fish. Once you add in sand and rock, your 5 gallon tank is now 2-2.5 gallons. Not sufficient for any Nano Fish in my book. Most take this into account on set up, that's why 10g is the smallest recommended FISH Marine Tank suggested.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Not to be a further bummer but small tanks(in salt water world)are much harder to manage(water quality).Although a 1 gallon water change equals 20%, 1 gallon of evaporation will throw levels 20% out of whack(things like specific gravity).So smaller tanks don't necessarily need "more"work they need closer attention.Little changes can have big effects.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I went to the LFS tonight, and now I agree. Seeing Gobys and firefish first-hand makes me wonder what the author was thinking.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

dvanbramer88 said:


> I went to the LFS tonight, and now I agree. Seeing Gobys and firefish first-hand makes me wonder what the author was thinking.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

The reason I'm stuck on the 5.5 gallon is this is the biggest tank I can have a school. All my other tanks are too big to bring and I have been planning this project/experiment to bring to school with me in the next fall semester. 

Under any other circumstances, I would just buy a 10 or a 20 and have a better set-up but I can't trust or expect my parents and sister to properly care for a marine tank while i am away. They do a great job feeding and taking care of my 3 FW tanks, but I can't expect them to be responsible for a SW tank. Not to mention, that would still leave me tankless at school.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

So for lighting, I'm looking at those 50/50 blue acintic and full spectrum daylight CFL's. 

My question is, should I use the 10w that is available locally to me at Petsmart or should I order a 20w online? 

I feel like the extra wattage would be worth the expense of shipping. But reviewers of the 10w bulb claim they keep corals under it just fine in small tanks. The 20W bulb has dozens of reviews that claim it is acceptable for corals. one reviewer said the bulbs lasted about 8 months before they got dim and he would be replacing them with the same because they work so well. 

So that being said, 20w it is? 
either this or something similar. Still haven't checked ebay yet. 
Amazon.com: Coralife Energy Savers ACL54210 50/50 Mini Compact Bulb, 20w: Pet Supplies


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Link looks like good light.If you still plan on coral most do better with more light(most).


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Even with the corals being less than 8" away from the light? And ~5w per gallon?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

CLFs do not provide the quality of light that Corals need to thrive. I believe you would be disappointed in that light to say the least. T-5 or LEDs would be recommended. And you can get a really good LED cheap as all get out for that little tank.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> CLFs do not provide the quality of light that Corals need to thrive. I believe you would be disappointed in that light to say the least. T-5 or LEDs would be recommended. And you can get a really good LED cheap as all get out for that little tank.


Understood.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Not to be a further bummer but small tanks(in salt water world)are much harder to manage(water quality). Although a 1 gallon water change equals 20%, 1 gallon of evaporation will throw levels 20% out of whack(things like specific gravity).So smaller tanks don't necessarily need "more"work they need closer attention.Little changes can have big effects.


I understand how evaporation "condenses" the tank because only pure water evaporates everything else dissolved in the water remains causing the parameters to increase. This is why real water changes are important on FW tanks as opposed to just constantly topping off. 

In regards to this, would it be logical to to mark a full line on the inside of the top frame to track evaporation. And every day-couple of days top the tank off with a little RO water to keep it full and keep the salinity in balance?


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> CLFs do not provide the quality of light that Corals need to thrive. I believe you would be disappointed in that light to say the least. T-5 or LEDs would be recommended. And you can get a really good LED cheap as all get out for that little tank.



Saltwater Aquarium Reef Coral White 14000K Light LED Strip 250 Lumens ft 14 000K | eBay

Like this?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

No, not those, you can only use those for Moon Lights. Your looking for units that use 3w LEDs. I can give you a couple links later when I get behind my computer tonight if you'd like.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Please do. Thank you.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok will do.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Beautiful PAR38 LED Aquarium Coral Reef Light Custom Made Brand New 20K or 14k | eBay
2 Mode 48 LED Aquarium Fish Tank 4 Blue 24 White LED Claming Clasp Lights | eBay
48 LEDs Aquarium Clip Light Fits to 30 50cm Mini Aquarium Free Shipping | eBay


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't know much about LED's but what makes the 3.5W "bulbs" better for reefs? Basically, what criteria makes a light fixture suitable for corals?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Reflectors and focusing Lenses


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Reflectors and focusing Lenses


Oh ok. thanks.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Here we are. 

Tank specs: 5.5 gallon
10 gallon filter
50 gph powerhead
5.2 pounds live rock
5 pounds live sand
1 pound crushed coral
SP: 1.0245

The tank is still cycling. 

Still need to decide on lights. I think I'm getting the one light Reefing showed me and I'm going to buy a versa-top. My LFS has them in this size for ~6 bucks.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

New 48 LED Aquarium Fish Water Plant 2 Mode Clip White Blue Light Bulb Lamp | eBay

Here, I just bought this, same one you sent me, but black, and it ships from the US, not China, so I'll get it quicker.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Ok, 

3 days ago water tested 

.5ppm Ammonia
.25ppm Nitrite
0ppm Nitrate

Yesterday it tested
.25ppm Ammonia
.5ppm Nitrite
0ppm Nitrate

Today it tested
.25ppm Ammonia
0ppm Nitrite
0ppm Nitrate

Is that normal? Obviously it's just still cycling but it seems like it's going backwards. 

I also tested RO water and my tap water to confirm the ammonia isn't a false positive.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Yea, thats about right. No tank will be the same, and the readings kinda jump around. Nothing to worry about.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Alright, thanks


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I got the lights last week and I bought a versa-top last thursday night. I'm really impressed with the lights. They're bright and very white. The night lights are really nice too.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Added 2 scarlet hermit crabs and a snail last night. They got right to exploring and eating stuff off the rocks. They're pretty neat.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)




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## tbub1221 (Nov 1, 2012)

i want you to know i did exactly what you did size wise all the way down to the substrat selection , and although i was warned by these guys of the size we still tried and i killed 2 damsels and a clown fish , it was not due to any circulation nor water quality issue , but simply just way 2 little fir even the smallest fish i could find.
i do a few snails now with a bit of live rock a few hermit crabs , and about 6 nice easy low need pieces of coral , mainly Button polyps and mushrooms.
i understand the want to try it but the marine fish , even the smaller ones are so different in there needs from many FW species they really require much more tank it seems. 
I hope you have good / Better luck than i did if you do go the fish rout. 
Befor the clown fish went in id almost gotten a neon gobie or a clown gobie , they are both smaller creatures , but id just rather not kill another fish , iv tried and been defeated on this topic.
But i do love my little marine environment all the same , i have a Dragons eye polyp with close to 30 heads on it (my largest) it is all the time opening and closing and growing . its very nice and low maintenance , but not a busy tank like my FW aquariums in the least. 
I gave some thought to removing the crabs and getting a small dwarf lobster like a
DEBELIUS' PURPLE REEF LOBSTER it is supposed to be reef safe if fed plenty and is the size of a FW cray fish.
good luck with your nano tank


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

tbub1221 said:


> i want you to know i did exactly what you did size wise all the way down to the substrat selection , and although i was warned by these guys of the size we still tried and i killed 2 damsels and a clown fish , it was not due to any circulation nor water quality issue , but simply just way 2 little fir even the smallest fish i could find.
> i do a few snails now with a bit of live rock a few hermit crabs , and about 6 nice easy low need pieces of coral , mainly Button polyps and mushrooms.
> i understand the want to try it but the marine fish , even the smaller ones are so different in there needs from many FW species they really require much more tank it seems.
> I hope you have good / Better luck than i did if you do go the fish rout.
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I'm going more the invert/corals way anyway. Might try a clown goby. My close friend has a 56 SW tank with only 2 clowns in it, so if anything I try just isn't working out, I can pass it on to her. 
But I'm still using caution with all my choices.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I picked up a couple rocks and a couple frags from a local reefer. The rocks came with a mix of xenia, feather dusters, and a mushroom. 


















Can you ID this? Is this a type of mushroom?


























Can you ID this? I forgot what he told me it was. Zoa?

















And one of my hermits








and snail


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Nice rocks!Picture #3 actinodiscus sp.(mushroom).There are many colors.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Thank you. And thanks, that's what i thought. 

And I need to invest in a tripod, shooting pictures that close, I get it focused and it looks really good on the screen, and the slightest movement when I press the trigger makes it blurry. OR my camera just sucks, lol


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Other Id would be what looks like Trumpet Corals. Definately an LPS, thats a calcium tower its making.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

A quick google says they can be sensitive to new light and should be placed lower in the aquarium upon new arrival. Pictures suggest mine are no where near fully open. Should I do anything special for it?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

It all depends on what light they came from. If your is stronger, you need to acclimate them to your light. Start them low, and every week take em up a bit higher.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not sure if mine is stronger. The guy had it in his sump with macro-algae. I think he had T-5's over his sump. 

I'll move it lower and see what happens. Thanks.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## tbub1221 (Nov 1, 2012)

Looks awesome.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

The trumpet opened up more today. I guess it likes being lower. The arm that broke off opened up the most and I left it up high. Guess it likes the light. They are individuals i guess. 

The toadstool opened up fully too. Really neat. 

The mushroom is starting to attach. 

I also moved my tiny frag of kenya tree so i could prop it up better.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

The kenya tree is standing up on its own now, So i guess it's starting to attach. The mushroom looks good. The toadstool has been fully opened for 2 days now. And the trumpet that I moved was really opened up when I got home yesterday. Hermits haven't bothered anything yet. They were all over the new rock checking it out they day I got it, but haven't really been near it since. When I feed they are finding plenty on the sand. Snail's just cruising around on the glass. I got a video and some better pictures to post.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Very nice. Sounds like your on your way to a successful Reef!!!


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)




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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Update: My mushroom disappeared one night. I guess hermits are to blame. 
Kenya tree exploded in size. 
One xenia head isn't doing so hot. A few are doing "ok" and a few are doing really good. 
The trumpet coral started opening up really wide. 
I added a rock covered with yellow polyps yesterday and they all opened up within a few hours. (that bumps me up to about 7.5 pounds of LR)

I saw a bristle worm for the first time yesterday.


My questions: How much flow is too much? My xenia is right below the filter's output and I feel like it's way to much flow pushing them over. Could be the reason a few aren't doing so great. When I added the polyps yesterday you could see the flow even in a "low flow area" was incredible. 

A a 50gph powerhead and a 80 gph filter for a total of 130 gph. Water capacity is ~4 gallons. So 32x circulation. Is that too much? 

I put a piece of filter foam in/over the output of the filter to slow it down a little bit and i kinda helped. Now I know any extra foam like that in a SW tank becomes a nitrate farm so that is a temp. fix. I was thinking about doing the soda bottle trick so the flow would be diverted laterally across the back of the tank instead of falling right on my xenia. Sound good? 

I know the "what's your calcium reading?" question is coming sooner or later. I'm in the process of getting a reef test kit. I already have the regular SW one. And on that note, Which, if any, coral supplement products do you recommend? I was looking at the Kent ones. They have smaller sized bottles available which is good. Because with a 4 gallon volume, I won't need a lot.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

First I'll say if you change water on your tank regulary you probably don't need supplements,the fresh salt water has a traces.I use kent and have the little bottle of zomax,and chroma max.The chroma max is dosed at a rate of 1 drop per 50gallons,which could be diffacult for you.The zoo max is 5 drops per 50 gallons or 1 per 10,not so diffacult.A good zoo plankton(julian sprung two little fishes)and watching your kh,and ca(I have kent buffers for them),may be all that is necessary, with water changes.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> First I'll say if you change water on your tank regulary you probably don't need supplements,the fresh salt water has a traces.I use kent and have the little bottle of zomax,and chroma max.The chroma max is dosed at a rate of 1 drop per 50gallons,which could be diffacult for you.The zoo max is 5 drops per 50 gallons or 1 per 10,not so diffacult.A good zoo plankton(julian sprung two little fishes)and watching your kh,and ca(I have kent buffers for them),may be all that is necessary, with water changes.


Ok. Sounds good. And the sand and crushed coral I used is supposed to have a high concentration of trace elements too.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

On further thinking I will guess you could dilute the chroma and zoo with 10x RO water to get drop dosing accurate for your tank.I also use some of these;
Tigger-Pods | Reef Nutrition - Premium Fish Feeds for Marine Ornamental Industry
I use the rotis,oyster and at least seed my salt tanks with a bottle or two of the tigger pods.DT phyto plankton also is another brand I feed(I do use the julian sprung two little fish zoo plankton) with all others.I weekly or so add some SELCON to my fish food and mix a little with the other liqiud coral foods above.
The kh buffer(coral builder )has been discontinued,but there is a replacement made by Jack Kent under a different name(I'll check for it as I have not run out of coral builder yet) and I use turbo calcium and purple up for ca.
Continuum Aquatics Basis Borate Free Reef Building Buffer
The continuum is a new line by Jack Kent since he sold Kent to Central Garden who has aquired many aqaurium product lines and sucessfully MIS managed them.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

What exactly does "dosing" copepods do? It provides something living in the tank that's food for all? Any other benefits? And are they really alive in the bottle?

And anyway, I'll have to make it back down to the LFS and check out what they have. They're listed as a retailer of the tigger-pods product. And they have literally every brand of the "water care" products so i bet they have the continuum too. 

Thanks


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The pods IMO are the food of life for all.They are excellent food for fish and some corals along with eating detris that can accumulate in tank.Add some to filter and rest in tank and they should last(reproduce) for ever.Every reef tank should have co pods in it.
And they really are alive in bottle,as most (all of my)LFS keep them in fridge with the cap open for air.They come with a packaging date on the bottle so make sure they're less than 3 months old.You should be able to see they are alive.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

A piece of 2 liter coke bottle and 5 minutes cured my strong current problem. The flow is squirting out both sides across the back of the tank and no longer dumping right down on my xenia.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Trust me when I say, if your ALK and Calcium are out, either way, you can kill corals with it.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

dvanbramer88 said:


> What exactly does "dosing" copepods do? It provides something living in the tank that's food for all? Any other benefits? And are they really alive in the bottle?
> 
> And anyway, I'll have to make it back down to the LFS and check out what they have. They're listed as a retailer of the tigger-pods product. And they have literally every brand of the "water care" products so i bet they have the continuum too.
> 
> Thanks


Just an FYI...

If you're going to buy pods, I've had great luck with these...

Live Saltwater Food for your Fish and Corals | Reefs2go.com

There will be a lot of amphipods and many will be pregnant. You won't see many copepods, but they're in there. reefcleaners.com has straight copepods that are a good deal too, but the pods from reefs2go are hardy strains and offer a lot of bang for the buck IMO.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Goby said:


> Just an FYI...
> 
> If you're going to buy pods, I've had great luck with these...
> 
> ...


Looks like a good deal to me. The free shipping part makes it. I think I will end up getting those soon. Thanks for the tip *thumbsup thanx


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Just got my water tested at the LFS. I'll buy the reef kit sooner or later. It's expensive. 

Calcium 440 ppm 
KH 10.5
Phosphate .25
Nitrate 0ppm 

Woman (owner) at the LFS says my xenia could be suffering from lack of Nitrate.

Also found out my hydrometer is a little off. She used a refractometer and determined my water 1.027. I thought it was in the 1.025 ballpark.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Little update: Yellow polyps and the trumpet coral are doing very well. Kenya tree grew some more. The toadstool leather is healthy. My xenia is pretty much dead and shriveled up. I hope when I finally get some nitrate it'll bounce back. 

AND, that mushroom that disappeared a while back, just re-appeared tonight. Who knows, but it's healthy and it got bigger. It was probably hiding between 2 rocks where I couldn't see it. 

Oh, and I'm having better luck growing SPS coral than xenia.... Go figure.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Water is to clean, SPS will love it, and the others not so much.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Mushrooms will really move around,Not like anenomes(maybe like) but will seemingly vanish,only and hopefully to appear in a nook between rocks bigger than before.I've purchased rocks with like 10 on them that now only 1 remains.Their not gone I can find 6 of them in various locations in my tank.Some act like nems and can sometimes be seen extending tremendously out of a nook and other times retracted and hard to notice.My wife still doesn't get their there even though I'll point them out;"there use to be so many on that rock!"And RM is correct that some corals really dig pure clean water(your sps{congrats they're way harder to keep for many}) and others (the simple) will prefer 20 or so NO3.
Sounds like you got it going on with a good handle on it.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Water is to clean, SPS will love it, and the others not so much.


Thats what I've been told. I literally have zero nitrates still after 2 months.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I'll blow the secret. That is an ocelleris clown. Right around an inch long. He did the typical clown fish thing for a while, hosted by the filter and never left the top. Then after a few days he started eating and became active. Chasing his reflection at the top and sleeping behind the filter. He's become a really good eater. And over the past few days, he's really been cruising the tank and doing some exploring all over the tank.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

You may at this point be able to overfeed to get the Trates to come up some.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

That's where I'm headed. 

Anyway, I have identified everything in my tank expect 1 invert. I saw him cruising on the rock and on the glass. It looked exactly like a rolly pollie. http://www.anneofgreengardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rolly-polly.jpg

Except it had more of a foot than legs and it was pure white. 

Everything else I have: 

hitch hikers:
1 or 2 pretty good sized bristle worms. 
A little starfish
stomatella snail
The Un-ID'd white thing

Things I added:
Astrea snail
2 scarlet hermits

I'm looking to add 1 shrimp

Coral Banded and Peppermint shrimp are pretty much the only 2 that are reef safe and in my price range. 

would you recommend either one over the other?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I'd go with the Peppermint Shrimp myself, you can always add more of them, but the CB you can only have one in a small tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Un-ID white thing,check out isopods.
Both shrimp are fairly cheap ,but like RM said only one CB unless you get a pair(already formed).Both shrimp are cool and interesting to watch,the CB is a riot cause he thinks he's the toughest thing in the world.The peppermints are active and can perform a greater usefullness in cleaning and eating small aptasia.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I was leaning that way anyway. I don't really like the way the CB shrimp look, they have brighter colors and everything, but I don't like the claws i guess. 

And good to know peppermint are better suited for a small tank, but I'd probably only have one regardless.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Un-ID white thing,check out isopods.


I missed your post the first time. Sorry. 

Pretty sure that little white guy is one form of an isopod or another. Haven't seen him in a while though. 

Are they good, bad, indifferent?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

They are all of that!If you don't see him munchung on your corals then no major concern,but they could be a nightmare.Since you only notice him and not his devastation probably no big deal.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

The rest of the corals are doing very well. Only problem with the whole tank is the xenia are pretty much dead now. But that's because I still have 0 nitrates. 


Anyway, this brings me to my next question; 

I just tested and my results were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrate. 

Now i just tested my 10 gallon fresh water tank with the nitrate test kit, and got basically a 0 as a result, It did turn a slightly darker gold/yellow but was still closer to 0 than the orange for 5.

I am starting to think I have a bum nitrate test kit, because I'm pretty darn certain that there is a lot more nitrates in the 10 FW tank than "almost 5"


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

There are dates on most test bottles(I use API) ,but would tend to agree with you as even when my reef is 0 no3 I can always verify the test is still good buy testing my 180 fresh water and seeing the usaull 40 or therabout.
Ironically my xenia have not been as healthy or multiplying like they did originally.
The marine biologist at my #1 LFS said that xenia is going extinct in the oceans?


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Kit expires August 2017. I too have API.

Well anyway, I have been "overfeeding" to try and get the nitrates up. 

I have 3 other FW tanks to check that nitrate test on. I'm going to do that now.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Just got a pretty good positive from my goldfish tank. So the kit is working..


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Umm, you dant test fw and sw with the same cards. They don't read the same.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

They are actually pretty close in color (there are two different cards though) and are definately the same reagents for API test.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Umm, you dant test fw and sw with the same cards. They don't read the same.


I wasn't trying to use it to test my FW. I was just trying to confirm that ,y test kit actually reacts with Nitrate because I haven't had a single positive since I owned the kit. 



coralbandit said:


> They are actually pretty close in color (there are two different cards though) and are definately the same reagents for API test.


I agree both reagents are the same for FW and SW nitrate tests. The cards are slightly different.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

dvanbramer88 said:


> I wasn't trying to use it to test my FW. I was just trying to confirm that ,y test kit actually reacts with Nitrate because I haven't had a single positive since I owned the kit.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree both reagents are the same for FW and SW nitrate tests. The cards are slightly different.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm looking to replace the filter I have on my nano reef with a second powerhead. 

Looking at this: 80 GPH Submersible Pump Aquarium Fish Tank Powerhead Fountain Water Hydroponic | eBay

And adding this: Hydor FLO Rotating Deflector | eBay


That will put me at 130 gph with 2 power heads. After I test to see if the rotating deflector will fit and work on my 50 gph head (It's recommended to be used on 80 gph+) I will buy a second one and have both power heads running the rotating deflectors.

Edit: Like how tiny the power head is and I hope the deflectors will have the current sweep the rock better and also provide more surface agitation to break up the surface film. 

There are a few videos of the deflectors in action on youtube. I think they will work nicely.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I'd find out if it can withstand a SW tank. If it says just aquarium, it may not have the appropriate shaft for SW.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I just sent the seller a question regarding the powerhead and saltwater. 


My alternate choice would be this: Aquarium Powerhead 53 400 GPH Fish Tank Pump Undergravel Filters Hydroponic | eBay

I have the 53 gph version of this one and it's been working great so far. I would get the 120 gph version this time. This is a second choice because of the size. 


Also, do you think ~170 gph in a 5.5 gallon (holding roughly 3.5-4 gallons of water) would be overkill? That would be 40x the volume in circulation.

What if I got a second 53? a total of 106 gph would be 26x circulation. (Assuming the deflecting attachment will work properly on a 50gph pump)

Right now I have 130 gph (80 + 50) and I'd like to stay in the same ballpark. 

I also really want to run the deflectors because these powerheads just make a really focused jet of water. And the smallest circulation fan available would be A: overkill and B: kinda expensive


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

here's a good, safe, small powerhead
Aquaclear 10 Power Head


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> here's a good, safe, small powerhead
> Aquaclear 10 Power Head


We sell those at work. I was considering it. My biggest problem with them is, no intake strainer. They're intended to be used with a under gravel filter or a sponge filter. Not as stand alone circulation.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

dvanbramer88 said:


> I just sent the seller a question regarding the powerhead and saltwater.
> 
> 
> My alternate choice would be this: Aquarium Powerhead 53 400 GPH Fish Tank Pump Undergravel Filters Hydroponic | eBay
> ...


Yea, 40x would be really overkill in such a small tank. I like your idea better.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> I like your idea better.


Whats that? the 50 and the 80? or two 50's?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

LOL, sorry. The second 53.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

ebay seller says "Hello, it can be used in salt water, thank you."


Hmm...


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Then the choice is your. =)


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I bought it. I like the price, i like the size, and it's adjustable. 

I have also done business with that seller before and have no reason not to buy from him again.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Right on. =)


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I got it. It's small. I'm happy. 300l/hr on the label converts to 80gph. Also the paperwork lists several marine applications. Played with the adjustments and got it running. Just gotta pick up the Hydor Flo attachment. But otherwise looks like I got a good deal.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Saltwater Tank Update - YouTube <<<<<Video


I installed the Hydor FLO wavemaker on the new powerhead and removed the filter. The corals seem to like the amount of and more random flow. I'm happy with the FLO but it could spin a little faster.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

My snail died...  I found him on his back 2 days ago. I pick him up, he didn't smell so I put him on the rock and he quickly started moving again. So i guess he just fell. I find him on his back again and I just roll him over where he was. Didn't move in over a day. And last night, the hermits had him rolled over and were eating him. Sad, but that's how it goes. My guess is he wasn't finding enough to eat and starved. I won't be getting another snail anytime soon. I don't want to introduce competition for the stometella snails. Which IMO are much cooler anyway. 

I will be getting around to getting a shrimp or too soon.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Yea, pretty much snails come and go, but unless you have a ton of snails in your tank, the snail is usually food for them.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Hermits may have actually killed your snail as they crave shells and often don't wait for last tenant to move out before deciding they want it!


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

It's possible, but i doubt it. Like I said, he didn't move for a day before the hermits were on him. And there are 3 shells and 2 hermits in the tank. 

I mean, that doesn't really mean anything. It is still possible that the hermits killed the snail and than ate him a day later.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I sign that a snail is on his way out is that he can't right himself.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Yea. Well anyway, I just got home and guess who is living in his brand new shell that he _found._


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

RoFL.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

So every time I go to a LFS and see their SW display tanks, And I see everything moving constantly from all the flow, it makes me feel like my tank doesn't have enough flow. 

Anyway, I've been going to the one LFS to get my water tested for calcium, ALK, and the other things I can't test for yet, and the woman was surprised to hear I didn't have any filter media/foam in the tank. After a little talking i decided to add the filter back into my tank. She suggested I try "The incomparable Poly-Filter." I bought it, figured it was worth a shot. 

The selling point was one of their display tanks sitting on the counter. It is one of those seamless 5 gallon cube tanks. Some xenia and mushrooms for coral. A few pieces of live rock, sand substrate etc. Simple little clip on LED light. Little Ocelleris clown for the only inhabitant. Well anyway, all it had for filtration/circulation was a penguin 100 (minus bio wheel) and the Poly Filter for media. The tank has been set up for at least a year and it looks amazing for what it is.

So in my tank, right now I'm running the 80 gph wavemaker in the top right corner shooting across the back so it breaks up the surface and hits the rock. I have the 85 gph filter with Poly-Filter in the center, and on the bottom left corner, I have the 50gph powerhead pointed at the rocks at an angle. 


Anyway, what spawned all this, the corals haven't been doing bad necessarily, but they aren't doing great like they were. Strangly, the hard corals have been looking great this whole time. The yellow polyps haven't been the same, the toadstool doesn't put its "Arms" out as much as it used too, the kenya tree doesn't inflate and look as rigid as it used too. 

I learned that I was using the nitrate test kit wrong and that my nitrates were a lot higher than I thought. I didn't know you had to shake bottle #2 for so long so vigorously. So that wasn't helping. And I let calcium get a little low too. (~350 ppm) So I'm going to do more frequent water changes to remedy both those situations and see where that takes me.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

DOH. Right on, at least you caught it in time. But strange that the Hard Coral is ok and the corals that like Trates aren't doing ok.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Ammonia might be causing it too. I forgot to ask the woman at the LFS to test my ammonia. I don't know if my kit is getting a false positive or not. (I don't think it is) But lately I have been getting an ammonia reading for no apparent reason. The tank is months old and was obviously cycled per test results. I have since cut back feeding to see if that makes a difference. It hasn't really made a difference. 

Should I stir up the substrate to see if I uncover something rotting? (Nobody is missing) Do the hermit crab sheds decay and cause ammonia? Or are they pretty much just inert exoskeleton? Should i pull the snail shell out?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

No, don't stir up the sand bed, that would definately make it worse. Shedding from the hermits usually get eaten in a couple days, and they aren't going to cause any spikes, don't think thats the issue. If you have no one missing, I have no idea where the Ammonia would be coming from. You haven't added anything to the tank recently?


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> No, don't stir up the sand bed, that would definately make it worse. Shedding from the hermits usually get eaten in a couple days, and they aren't going to cause any spikes, don't think thats the issue. If you have no one missing, I have no idea where the Ammonia would be coming from. You haven't added anything to the tank recently?


Haven't added anything since the beginning. Right now there are the 2 hermits, the ocelleris, an I saw the 2 stometella snails last night. I even saw my little star fish last night too. 


I just thought of something, I had at least one bristle worm. I haven't seen him in a while now. It is possible he has died and is rotting away in the rock somewhere...


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Test tap water with your kit, see what is says for that. Then test some straight RO water see what that reads.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I just tested the tank, tap water and RO water side by side for ammonia. 

The tap water tested .25 ppm

RO water tested 0ppm

Tank tested .25ppm 

The tank water test solution forms a precipitate when I add the second solution and it gets cloudy after I shake it up. 

The tap water and RO water remain translucent and no precipitate. Guessing the test is reacting with the salt?


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Everything is looking up today. All the soft corals are looking better and the hard corals look excellent. 

Guessing it is a combination of the increased flow and the recent water changes. 

My next question is, what kind of light cycle should I be looking to achieve? How much acintic only and how much both on? Usually I turn the blue lights on for about 15 minutes when I wake up and than turn the whites on before I leave for school. And at night when I get home I turn the whites off and leave the blue on for an hour or so. 

Anyway, yesterday, I left only the blue lights on all day, or about 13-14 hours and today the corals look a lot better than they did at the beginning of the week. Do they need more blue only light periods?


With my light I can turn everything off, blue only, and both white and blue.


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## SavingOurSeas (Jul 16, 2013)

This is the beginning of a killer reef junkies journal.
I've enjoyed reading the roller coaster since page 1. Thanks


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

SavingOurSeas said:


> This is the beginning of a killer reef junkies journal.
> I've enjoyed reading the roller coaster since page 1. Thanks


I think you're right. Even though it is the simplest and one of my smallest tanks, I think I enjoy it the most. 

and Thank you.


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## Jaybird5 (Apr 27, 2013)

I really enjoy this too. I would love to follow in your footsteps one day. Maybe when I get money for Christmas. Any who great read and I encourage you to keep on posting.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

The plan is to upgrade the 5.5 to 10 gallon as an early Christmas present from my sister. The LFS that my sister works at is having their annual blowout sale tomorrow. 20% off all dry goods/tanks. 25% off SW fish, 50% off FW fish. Raffles and give aways. They have live rock advertised at $1.79 a pound for the sale. So the plan is to get a 10 gallon, a class canopy, and another 6-7 pounds of Live rock. I already have a bag of crushed coral and a little bit of sand leftover. My 2 pumps and filter add up to 210 GPH, so I'll be looking at over 21X circulation. 

Also getting a bunch of RO water and a box of salt for the tank swap. Eventually get a better light. I've been looking around to see what is out there. 


And the tank update: The clown is doing well. He is growing and very active. The hermits and snail are doing well too. I started getting some good coralline algae growing.

The hermits are fighting over a small piece of algae wafer and he is investigating. 


He's bad at holding still and my camera isn't that great.


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## SavingOurSeas (Jul 16, 2013)

Been following along, enjoyed your experiences with you. The pico systems are definitely pleasant to care for. I'm happy for you in adding the clown to the system.
This is one more system that's a drop in the bucket towards going smaller. Currently the baby in the family is an 8 gallon. I have a 2.5 gallon sitting and waiting for something to be done with it, but currently there's too much on the plate to be involved with yet another system. Perhaps in 2014 sometime.
Keep up that system it's nice following along.
Happy reefing my friend, looking forward to watching your system age and that clown grow up. 
Thanks again for sharing!


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

Washed some new substrate. 



New and old. Starting to place new rock


Filling it up. Under the towel to the right is a bowl with the hermits and clownfish with a small piece of live rock. I put the snail in first. added the hermits as it started to clear up. Than I tested the water and dripped the clownfish for about 35 minutes. 





Here she is. I'm really happy with it. I added 10 pounds of live rock to my original 7 pounds.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

Your clown is no doubt enjoying his new pad. Congrats to you both. Enjoy.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

He's still hosting behind the adjustment knob on the heater like before. LOL

The hermits are enjoying all the new caves and crevices to explore. Them and the snail went to town picking clean the new rocks. 


I couldn't beat the sale either. Live rock was 55% off, So I got about $40 worth of live rock for $18. And I got 20% off everything else. Tank, versa top, the salt, and I got a bunch of stuff for our other tanks like filters and water conditioner. After her shift my sister got a couple plants for her tank @ 50% off. All in all a good day. Too bad they only do it once a year.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

You got some great deals. Especially on the rock. Clownfish are extra special. I can't believe I went 42 years without one.


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## dvanbramer88 (Jul 23, 2011)

I agree, he definatly has a personality. Knows it when I come into the room. He knows when its feeding time. Always sleeps in the same spot at night when the day lights go out and the night lights come on.


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## bcb577 (Jan 7, 2016)

Hey I'm new to the thread and I have a 10 gallon ano reef and was reading yours.maybe you should set up your 5'5gallon tank and fill it with some corals and I'm not sure but maybe check into some inverts?my peppermint shrimp is pretty entertaining


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