# Ich and Petco



## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

WARNING- Long post but please read.

First, I'd like to say, I never in my life thought about a QT until I joined this forum. I've kept FW tanks for years, had instances of Ich and treated it, somtime successfully and occasionally not. So my question is, why don't these chain stores (or any stores for that matter have QT set-ups and only after the fish pass the QT test then transfer them to tanks for sale? I can understand a place like Walmart not doing this as they are not in the business of selling fish or pet supplies only. But Petco/Petsmart? The ONLY problems I've ever had can be traced bask to these two places. SO, why wouldn't they do what I now understand (due to forums like these) what people reccomend and QT them for a few weeks before selling them? They could still do what they do now with a "buy at your own risk" section. I have now decided that these will be my last purchases from either of these establishments.

Anyways, on to my sad story. I recently bought 3 clown loaches for my Community aqaurium and they looked great when I bought them (remember, this is before I ever joined a forum and learned or ever heard about QT). Got them home and accilmated and all seemed well. Thought I saw what may be a couple white spots on them the first night but wasnt sure (they actually just looked like small air bubbles on the skin) and woke up the next day and they were gone (first mistake). 5 days later, Full blown Ich on all fish, Started the treatment yesterday with what my new (and only LFS I will use now) said to do. 50% water change and Kordon rid Ich plus. Tomorrow will be day two of the treatment but I hdon't have high hopes for some of the fish. Already lost one clown loach (other two not doing well) and one leaf fish. The other two leaf fish are maintaing but I'm not sure they'll make it through this. Keep in mind, we've had the three leaf fish for about 3 years. One of them is almost 4 inches long, beautiful and going to break my wifes heart if he doesn't make it. Also 3 silver dollars that seem to be doing ok. Striped Raphael catfish that was acting really weird last night but he seems to be doing better.

So, to the short of it, I'm battling daily water changes, medicine doses and have the temps increased in my tank in hopes of ridding it of this disease. I know I made some mistakes and am not looking for sympathy. Just a warning to those until their LFS, main chains or whomever else you purchase fish from start doing what people before me now seem to know. QT YOUR FISH OR FACE POSSIBLE DISASTER! Hope none of you have to go through this. I dont want you or me to flush another fish because of this.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the fish you've lost Sully and good luck with the others.hope they make it


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You have to be careful treating clown loaches, they are a scaleless fish and should only use 1/2 doses with them as they are pretty sensitive fish.

Anything that can cause stress can weaking a fishes defences in fighting diseases and that is why ich can attach so fast. When I get fish for a tank that already has fish in it I QT for at least a month as some diseases can take that long to show up. Always drip acclimate them it can take anywhere from an hour to more. It adjusts them to your tank water and such so as not to cause shock.
Big box stores like petco and petsmart don't acclimate because they are in it for a fast buck. I'm lucky my lfs qt's for 6 weeks before he puts them on display.

Good luck with your clowns, they are such fun fish to watch. I have 5 in my 220 and love to watch them chase each other.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Day 3 of treatment. Lost another clown loach tonight and it sucked. I can can a fish for food and clean/cook and eat it with no qualms. But flucshing a dead fish down the toilet sucks! I knew when starting the treatment the CL's were going to be at risk but I had no choice when it came to my leaf fish. We've had them for almost 3 years and they are beautiful. With no QT tank I knew they were gonna suffer but I had hope. 

Anyways, for those who care and want to follow for their own reasons and to see how this works, another 1/3 water change and full dose. The cysts have not dropped yet but hoping they will in the next 48 hours andthey can finally be killed. I cant remember if we can post links here or not so I'll pas you the info I've read. You cannot kill the Ich while it's on the fish. You have to wait until it drops of the fish to reproduce before killing it, thats why daily dosed are so important. Also, lower your water level down a couple inches so your filter water really flows into the tank with a splash to make oxygen. The chemicals and the high temps deplete oxygen fast and put your fish in even more stress.

Thats all for now, hope for better news by the weekend.


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## tbub1221 (Nov 1, 2012)

i also have a story much like this one , iv battled it out now with the ich that i brought home with a dojo loach from petco. i went there yesterday and there fish are all under observation , i saw ich and hole in head as well as a lot of fin and mouth rot , some of there gold barbs had no mouths at all.. so i officially blame them and the loach i added almost 2 weeks ago.. but like you if id og QT him i would not be here now... so i got 1 pleco still has some white specks on him everyone else has dropped theirs and i know it only dies once its out from the skin and the protection of the slime coat so how long do you suggest i should treat ? should i keep it up until they all drop + 1 day or what would u suggest. like you i also lost a few fish but it was to save many more .


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## Gregory (Nov 11, 2012)

Sorry about what happened, but I will say that not all chain stores are as bad as others at least in my area there are two petsmarts that I go to and at the one I had a nice conversation with an employee who actually owed fish herself. I posed the question about the fish they get in and how they deal with them. She said that they carefully look over the fish and quarantine the one's that need it. She pointed out to me some of the tanks that had fish in them and that the fish in those tanks were not to be sold until they are treated and are healthy. I do know that one store can be very different than another. I believe it comes down to who is in charge of the department and the pride they take in their job! Sad these days. I always like asking a lot of questions about the products I buy. Again sorry and no I don't work at a petsmart or petco, I am a landscaper, carpenter.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

The only problem with petsmart qt'ing that way is that their filtration system for all tanks are linked to one giant filter that is in so many sections, each section handles so many tanks, so if one tank has sick fish in it you can bet that the others that are linked to that tank has been exposed to the same thing. I know as I seen the new system as they were putting it in and the manager explained it to me and showed me how the system works.


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## Gregory (Nov 11, 2012)

So would you recommend buying fish at a privately owed fish shop, and avoid chain stores? Concerned, because soon I will be ready for fish. Cycle nearing end of completion.


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## phil_pl (Apr 10, 2009)

How is the treatment coming? What temperature are you running the tank?

On the topic of QT tanks in stores. If you can find a privately owned store who's prices are higher than everyone else's, you may have found a store with a QT system. They are hard to find in my area, sadly the aquarium fever hasn't set in with everyone around here yet. But if you do some asking around at different LFS and see where they get there fish from you can put your mind at ease even before you have ever seen the fish. I only buy fish from two different people that I come to learn take very good care of there fish and put the customer before profit. They charge more but it is worth it! I am cycling my tank now and will be getting fish soon. I like to special order my fish when possible I don't get to see the fish before they come in, but with stores I use now will reject any fish that doesn't appear to be in tip top shape when they come in.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

You can only do what you feel comfortable with. My rant was probably a little strong as it is what it is. I can say that throughtout 20 or so years of running FW tanks off and on, I've had most of my problems with fish obtained from chains as opposed to mom and pop shops. Mind you, there's only been a few problems throughout that time. I've got fish in the past from the petco's and petsmarts and they've been fine. Until I started checking out these forums I had never even thought about a QT and no fish salesperson had ever mentioned using one. I do own one now though. 



Gregory said:


> So would you recommend buying fish at a privately owed fish shop, and avoid chain stores? Concerned, because soon I will be ready for fish. Cycle nearing end of completion.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Spot on Susan and excellent point. Just cause fish in one tank look healthy, they could be receiving filtered water from another tank that has sick fish. One thing to point out is that doesn't mean the fish will get sick to but it does increase the chances of them getting ill due to any sort of stress. (correct?)



susankat said:


> The only problem with petsmart qt'ing that way is that their filtration system for all tanks are linked to one giant filter that is in so many sections, each section handles so many tanks, so if one tank has sick fish in it you can bet that the others that are linked to that tank has been exposed to the same thing. I know as I seen the new system as they were putting it in and the manager explained it to me and showed me how the system works.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks for asking Phil. Here's the update. As the spots weren't gone after 7 days of treatment and a talk with the lfs expert, I decided to try and get one of the Leopard Ctenetomas (we'll call them leaf fish for short, lol) out of the tank and take him on a trip for an expert's opinion. At the same time, I pulled the 3 Silver dollars out cause they said they'd take them and find a new home. My wife was a little upset but we both decided that this was best for tank health in the long run. If you've ever owned silver dollars then you know how active they are in the tank. Active but not aggressive. We're trying to calm the tank down for the two remaining leafs and all future inhabitants.

Anyways, on to the diagnosis. After a long and trying battle to get one of the Leaf's out of the tank with as little stress as possible, I finally got the large one out and into a large ziplock bag. I then placed him into smaller type trash can to keep him as peaceful as possible. I really wanted to get the smaller one out as I thought it would be less tramatic on him than the larger one but had to do with what I could. Got him to the fish store. They do believe he had ich. When I got him down there, the remaining spots around his head had fallen off but it looked more like the peeling blistered skin of a human that had fallen off. Kind of translucent. What was left behind were some sores so they detemined that they had some sort of bacterial infection and to start treatment right away. I picked up a 10 gallon QT, a heater and a BF and raced home and set it up. I used 5 gallons out of my main tank and 5 gallons of treated water and tryed to keep the temps as close to the MT as possible. Got the other Leaf out of the main tank and into an acclimation bag and after acclimation got hem in the QT. Started treatments of Erythromiacyn (sp?) which will end on Sunday. Daily 25% water changes and a new dose of the meds. 4 treatments total. They looked better within 24 hours and looked good this morning before I left for work. Hoping when I get hope to see the sores looking better and the red around the gills to disappear soon.

On to the MT. I'm treating it with furan-2. Starting treatment this evening as I had to add the charcoal back into my filter to clear out any remaining copper from the rid-ich treatment. Would 48 hours of running the charcoal be long enough in anyones opinion?

Sorry Phil, as to answer your first question, during ich treatments, temps were around 84-84 with salt added. Daily 30-40% water changes prior to dosing.



phil_pl said:


> How is the treatment coming? What temperature are you running the tank?
> 
> On the topic of QT tanks in stores. If you can find a privately owned store who's prices are higher than everyone else's, you may have found a store with a QT system. They are hard to find in my area, sadly the aquarium fever hasn't set in with everyone around here yet. But if you do some asking around at different LFS and see where they get there fish from you can put your mind at ease even before you have ever seen the fish. I only buy fish from two different people that I come to learn take very good care of there fish and put the customer before profit. They charge more but it is worth it! I am cycling my tank now and will be getting fish soon. I like to special order my fish when possible I don't get to see the fish before they come in, but with stores I use now will reject any fish that doesn't appear to be in tip top shape when they come in.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm not certain but I question whether carbon removes copper at all.Cupsisorb a synthetic resin(I think sea chem) specifically removes copper.Also not real sure whether your ich med had copper(what brand)?Kordon rid ich does not contain copper(so carbon will remove meds).Water changes will remove copper if enough are done.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

It was the Kordon Rid ich +. I think your right on the copper aspect as I can't see it listed on the bottle. Also, since I've found 2 snails in the last 2 days, I think I can assume that there wasn't any copper, lol.

Here's what's listed as ingrediants- Contains formaldehyde (11.52% formalin) U.S. P. grade 4.26% and premium quality aquaculture-grade zinc-free chloride salt of malachite green 0.038%.

I may have just thought it had copper in it as someone else suggested using coppersafe and I then got confused. I've done water changes daily during dosing. Did one after dosing had stopped for 24 hours and then added carbon back. 



coralbandit said:


> I'm not certain but I question whether carbon removes copper at all.Cupsisorb a synthetic resin(I think sea chem) specifically removes copper.Also not real sure whether your ich med had copper(what brand)?Kordon rid ich does not contain copper(so carbon will remove meds).Water changes will remove copper if enough are done.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

the carbon will remove any remnants of your med.I use rid ich plus also and possibly this product disapates(does not stay in original form and becomes "void") .That would explain dosing repeatedly(following directions) as the additional doses are not to raise med level , but to sustain it.You should be good to go with different med as you carried out water changes also.Here's a link to help with diagnoses and treatmhttp://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htment; It helps to have solid info right on hand.Hope this helps.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

One other question, by treating the Main tank (empty of fish) with the furan-2, is that going to help anything? Could there still be destructive bacteria remaining that this will help rid the tank of?

Another one is, will it remove good bacteria as well? I don't want to throw the cycle into a loop and have to kepp the Leaf's quarentined any longer than they need be.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Just going with "semi educated guess", but most bacterial infections take place "within" the fish(why medicated food is often advised).There would no harm in treating tank (and I probably would) ,but no saying that it is beneficial.As for BB and your filter (cycling)Possibly your QT tank has seeded filter media to add back after treatment to DT/or (all meds do some damage)the filters BB will survive(with less force) but not be problematic(when I treat my 180G whatever happens ,happens) I've had no problems with "killing cycle" and changing water regulary(on schedule regardless) never hurts.
I KEEP AND GROW FISH(sometimes treatments are necessary).


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

ok, on to another issue in the main tank. I was giving it the once over and noticed some very small (barely visible to the naked eye) white bug of some sort? Probably 1mm or less in size, very fast moving and a lot of them. PLease tell me this is common and have nothing to worry about, lol.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Sully, it's always sad to hear of loss, and I hope this suggestion can be applied to future safegards...Ich is removed and killed with Diatom Filter. and you don't have to add or remove anything from the water column. there is no chemical to be worried about and the water is polished to a state of glass clear. I have used that product from the first days I had fish and it kept my tanks spotless , and safe for fresh or salt water use without degrading my natural bacteria to control bad things. It is not used daily, and more a once or month or special use such as ich treatment that do enter the tank with new arrival fish. It has been suggested sudden change in temperature can bring on an outbreak of ich. but I don't know that to be a fact. Larry


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

I'll look into these Larry.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Sully said:


> I'll look into these Larry.


If using for ich you must use it excessive time and that means changing the powder a few times (it clogs up with a few hours of running depending on how dirty the water), and your only going to collect the free swimmers so you must filter for about 5 days to complete the life cycle of the ich...but it does work and it removes ich done that way...if used only for a day it will not do the job. Your only breaking the life cycle as the stuff falling into the gravel is too small to filter out, and that burried into the fish scale or skin is too protected to remove. Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ich is too easy to treat with a med vs buying a costly filter. Using a filter also assumes that all of the protozoa will be taken in by the filter. It's an iffy proposition to me.

In the two times I have ich in my tanks a couple of years back, I used Quick Cure. Quick Cure is a cocktail of two meds and it took less than 4 days for all visual indications of ich to be gone. Never used an increase in temp or salt to treat.

Most of your more popular meds will not affect your beneficial bacteria.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

LTruex said:


> If using for ich you must use it excessive time and that means changing the powder a few times (it clogs up with a few hours of running depending on how dirty the water), and your only going to collect the free swimmers so you must filter for about 5 days to complete the life cycle of the ich...but it does work and it removes ich done that way...if used only for a day it will not do the job. Your only breaking the life cycle as the stuff falling into the gravel is too small to filter out, and that burried into the fish scale or skin is too protected to remove. Larry


Larry, I was reading some research about these Filters by a Dr Adrian Lawler (whoever he is lol and included in this article was that some people use them for all kinds of parasitic problems, also bacterial problems but, not just when a disease strikes but by running them perhaps once a week as a precaution,that they do gather up free swimming parasites? My thoughts about this are that if a Tank is hit with a big outbreak of 'different' problems as iv'e quite often read on here, instead of dosing with chemicals one after the other personally i would give the Diatom a heads up because chemicals though they can be a life saver can add to weakening the fishes immune system. They are necessary i know at times and cure the fish(sometimes). but, i really wonder if dosing with a treatment then changing to another and sometimes a third whether a cocktail of chemicals actually makes things worse and 'sometimes' even help to kill the fish off.

Having said that i think outbreaks of disease are 'sometimes' due to being overstocked and lack of water changes but, certainly not always as i've read a fewsuddenly have problems even with good tank maintainance.
I will be reading more about these filters when iv'e more time.

Interesting and i'm always open to new ideas. Have a nice day


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

First off, never flush dead fish or any for that matter. Sometimes you can introduce things into your waterways like that. Put the poor souls to a better resting place and let them fertilize your flower garden. 

I treat ich usually with water changes, clean warm water and if need arises, I use quick cure. Though I am not sure it would be ok on the loaches and such, ive used it with decent results before on my tanks.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I used to have one of the filters a good while back. There is much discussion on the net about using them for disease prevention, which is where it should be and probably considered fairly effective if used regularly, much like what a UV sterilizer would be used for.

For use when the disease is already present and fish showing symptoms it is debatable to use. My feeling is that it can assist, but cannot be the only thing used to get rid of the disease. The problem is once you have noticed a fish is affected, by ich in this case, the disease has usually been present a few days. Ich will usually not kill if noticed fairly quick and quick action taken. If a diatom filter is used as the only tool, then it is a good chance that ich will have time to kill. Couple that with a typical 4-day cycle of ich and it can become impractical for most.

Meds weaken fish less than the exposure to the disease. If the ailment is noticed fast, and we all should be observing our fish daily, and a med is applied immediately the ailment can usually be corrected within a few days. This is better than a week+ with the disease. Meds have their use just like anything else.

The key is good maintenance, moderate stocking, and nitrate control and maybe you'll be lucky enough to never see a disease. Even the use of a QT will not prevent disease as good as those 3 things. The diatom worked great for me but the polishing of the water didn't improve my situation and all of my tanks have crystal clear water. Luckily it was used and I didn't have to spend the $90 to test it.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> I used to have one of the filters a good while back. There is much discussion on the net about using them for disease prevention, which is where it should be and probably considered fairly effective if used regularly, much like what a UV sterilizer would be used for.
> 
> For use when the disease is already present and fish showing symptoms it is debatable to use. My feeling is that it can assist, but cannot be the only thing used to get rid of the disease. The problem is once you have noticed a fish is affected, by ich in this case, the disease has usually been present a few days. Ich will usually not kill if noticed fairly quick and quick action taken. If a diatom filter is used as the only tool, then it is a good chance that ich will have time to kill. Couple that with a typical 4-day cycle of ich and it can become impractical for most.
> 
> Meds weaken fish less than the exposure to the disease. If the ailment is noticed fast, and we all should be observing our fish daily, and a med is applied immediately the ailment can usually be corrected within a few days. This is better than a week+ with the disease. Meds have their use just like anything else.


 The cost of a Diatom Filter System is expensive, as is any quality filtration system we buy. I recommend the diatom even though it's only service is limited use...when needed is often emergency situation that happen to people even when a dedication of care has been provided by the keeper, as its use may include while gone power failure tank in bad shape and you need help now within hours not days...algea bloom hit while away and need help now...not hours. and meds won't do it, water change always helps, though you must keep water storage or risk your fish.
Some cities use the product of diatom to remove bacteria in city water filtration...now I don't want anyone to imply I mean they buy a diatom filter like Vortex....they just use the media and there own bag...but it's the diatom that does the work, and is the same product.
Some may offer a debate wheather to use the filter once the ich has made an appearance, and would say use med though it does weaken the fish, but just a few days and then it passes, and most often in such debates you are told to raise the temps to the treshold limits of your least tolerant fish...this to speed up the cycle and rid the tank faster, and others even suggest using salt. These things do work by the way. 
But as stated they do weaken fish, and the only reason you would use the methods is prevent loss of your fish, which is assured if you do nothing more than water changes, for that won't stop the ich. 
So why use diatom? you don't weaken the fish or leave any ill effects on even the weakest animals in your care, for you don't have to raise temps unless just slightly more as an option to improve a faster speed up, but note I'm not saying you must and if done only slight amount, for all fish can tolerate a slight amount of increase and it does speed the life cycle of Ich.
You must use it nearly continous the entire life cycle of the outbreak, and it does mean days, now here is a thought.
Visualize... you don't weaken the fish and they were healthy at time of the out break and you are preventing (greatly slowing down) the ich from landing on their bodies as free swimmers, and you are breaking the life cycle of the ich (they must find a host to reproduce), or the creature dies.
This is not a debatible condition...if you break any part of that cycle it dies, and while that is happening the fish are stress less and less each passing moment of treatment...more relife easier it is to continue treatment longer.*w3 Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Meds will stress fish possibly. I'm not sure if weaken is a good word or not. If it does weaken them, it will be much less than being infected with whatever disease. If you use an increased temp to treat/kill the ich it is a certain temp that is desired, not just the highest temp of your most intolerant fish. That spec is not listed anywhere on the net anyway and that info would be subjective if it was. Depending on where you choose to read, 85 to stop reproduction and 88-89 to kill. The ich cycle is abut 4 days with temps above like 58F...most of us are there already and don't need to increase just to speed up the cycle.

I have no doubt that if a diatom filter takes in ich protozoa it removes it from the water without fear of return to the tank. What is not being considered is it assumes a 100% touch of 100% of the water in a tank. If you've ever watched powder residue off of gravel move through your tank, everyone always says the filter will get it, if you sit and watch it much of it hits the bottom and never gets into your filter. the intake of any filter is a given size and none of them ensure that everything floating around your tank is taken in. Now add in a larger tank like a 4ft (75g) or 6ft (125g) and you throw in another factor that has to be thought of.

Meds and especially liquid ones like the one mentioned (Quick Cure), are dissolved and in 100% of the water, through the filter, without exception. It touches 100% of the protozoa. I do not have to wonder if I left it on long enough to touch 100% of my water.

So visualize this...you attach the filter for X number of days and ich appears to be gone and then a week later you notice it again because you didn't know how long to leave it attached - this is not just a matter of the gph to figure this out. Is this the better option over treating with meds? Now visualize....I notice ich and apply meds immediately (no waiting, no temp increase), I apply for 5 days beyond the last visible sign and never see it again. It started affecting the disease immediately for the free floating protozoa and I didn't have to wait and assume a filter was going to pull it out, making it less risky for the fish that hadn't been exhibiting signs of infection.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Jrman83, if you don't like the filter noone is telling you to use it, lets let them decide or start a new post in another forum and leave this one for people to decide what is best for themselves...Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

LTruex said:


> Jrman83, if you don't like the filter noone is telling you to use it, lets let them decide or start a new post in another forum and leave this one for people to decide what is best for themselves...Larry


You provided as a primary means of treating ich and listed the pros. I was only listing the cons. So now they have pros and cons. This is what the forum is for.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Good point thanks Larry


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Interesing debate both ways. Anyways, The fish seem to be competely cleared up from their scondary fungus outbreak. Ny debate now is what is the most stress free way to get them out of the QT and back into the main tank? I've been adding stress coat for two days at WC and med time.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, The fish have been taken out of quarentine ond moved back into their home as of last night. They seem to be doing well so far. Fingers crossed.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

That's good news Sully


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Just got home and checked water. Amonia 0, trites 0, trates 0, ph between 7.8 and 8.0. (Seems PH is dropping off just a bit) The trates at zero is a little concering as I hope I'm not going to go through a cycle with no fish being in the tank for 6 days. I did add a bit of food each day and did a 50% WC yesterday morning before transplanting the fish last night. I'm hoping the levels stay stable for a few days as I don't want to have to do a WC and stress them out at all. The wife wants me to do a WC as the water has a cool stained look from the tannins leaching but I kinda like it. We boiled the wood, so this shouldn't last as long.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

lol Fish Theraputic? It sounds as if it's Prozac needed when things go really wrong.anyway really please to hear their healthy again Sully


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just remember in the future that ich is not one of the ailments that you remove and isolate a fish for. The entire tank should be treated because you never know at what stage the ich is at and you want to be sure to get it all. Even if you removed every fish, you could argue that the entire tank needed to be treated.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

JR, I did treat the whole tank. It started in the main tank and I treated the ich in there as I had no QT. After 7 days of treating and the Leaf fish for ich and then showing differant signs, I pulled one out and took it to the lfs for a look. It was determined that they had a secondary bacterial fungus. I then bought a QT and set it up immediately and put the infected fish in and treated them for the bacteria infection. As this was over 8 days ago before returning the fish back to the tank, I don't see where ich would be a problem in the main tank as the cycle would have been complete. I did WC'es, kept the temps and salt up so there should be nowhere for the ich left to live at that point. If I'm wrong, please educate me.

I guess I'm not sure what your last post was directed at?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Only that ich is not the type of instance for a QT use, that's all. Removing all the fish and treating the entire tank without anything in it is not even normal practice. What you did is what you did. Was it right? Time will tell.

My recommendation...get some Quick Cure and treat the very instant you see a sign with no delay. You will not see another sign of it within 4-5 days and no need for any other tank. Much less stress on the fish.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

ok, I think somethings got lost through the typed word here so I'll explain what I did one more time. I did NOT treat the ich in a quarentine tank. I dosed for approximately 8 days with rid idc + in the main tank. (whether that was the correct em or not is a debate for another thread as this is what was recommended by the lfs). After 8 days, they still were showing sign sof what I thought at the time was ich and the lfs guy thought this couldn't be right. So he asked if I could get one of the fish out and bring it down so he could take a look at it. Once he saw it he said it wasn't ich (although they did have it before). What had happened was after the ich was gone, they devoloped a secondary bacterial/fungus infection (these as somewhat reclusive fish so the times I saw them I just saw white and thought it was still ich, my mistake) and need to be treated for that. AT that time it was determined that it would be much cheaper (and more beneficial when introducing new fish to the tank) to go ahead and set up a QT to treat the fungus. Treating in the main tank would have cost twice as much as setting up the QT and treating them there. PLus, I now hava a tank to QT new fish before introducing them to the Main tank in hopes of not going through this again.

So hopfully now you see that I didn't QT for the ich, I only QT'ed after they devolped a secondary infection. The ich was taken care of in the main tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think I knew most of that, but thanks for the recap. I didn't post what I posted just for you. Others read and don't want to go all the way to the back and account step for step what occurred.

I would suggest you search "running a QT" and follow some of those steps. Taking a new tank and using it as a QT, without the tank having benefited from the Nitrogen cycle, can be very dangerous and there are steps that you can perform to "keep" and maintain as a QT - cycled. They are nice to have and debatable on their worth, nonetheless there are guidelines that will keep the fish you place in them safe. Especially in a case where you remove the entire stock from a main tank. Ammonia can soar pretty high in under a day and add to the ailment they may already have.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Yup, I did do my research along with a lot of help from my lfs on setting up a QT.

No trying to be defensive. I guess that's a lot of the problems wih being involved in a forum. Sometimes you can;t tell what's directed at you or just there for info. Maybe I misread your posts along the way.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Sully one of the easiest ways to run a qt if you don't want to leave it running is to put the filter on the main tank after it has been cleaned and sterilized. That way when you do need it your qt tank is instantly cycled.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks Susan. While I didn't have that option when I set it up, I was told to just use the existing water from my tank mixed with some treated water and then I used some biological media from my existing filter in the new filter.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Just glad you have the problem under control Sully. Larry


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## GreenyFunkyMonkey (Nov 27, 2012)

Sorry for your troubles. I have never bought fish from Petco. The store here does not maintain their aquariums very well. Algae is always growing, some tanks are ridiculous in the amount of algae growing in them. Their plants also are covered in algae. I tend to get my fish from Petsmart. Their aquariums are maintained a lot better. Though my only complaint with Petsmart is that I ended up buying plants that had snail eggs in them there... and I have never been able to really cure the snail infestation in my aquarium. Though freshwater shrimp really have put a dint in their population by eating them.


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## Sully (Oct 31, 2012)

A small update. Everything seems good now a few weeks later so we added a few clown loaches tonight. These were nice sized, healthy and locally grown. They were a trade in from someone who downsized their tank a week ago and looked great. They were happily aclimated and everyone seems happy.


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