# a few questions about my tank



## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

I set up my 75 gallon tank a little over a month ago. A week after setting it up I got impatient and went and bought 6 feeder gold fish. Everything went great for about a week and a half, I stupidly went out and bought 4 serpae tetras and a pleco. I knew I shouldn't have bought the pleco because I had no algae build up but I bought some of the algae tabs. Couple days later 4 of my 6 goldfish were getting these white bubble type things on their tail fins. I thought it was ich... So i did an ich treatment, waited a day, did a 25% water change and a second treatment. Within 14 hours all 11 fish died. 4 of those goldfish were ill (the lady at the petstore later told me it wasn't ich most likely it was bacterial or fungal issue) but the other 2 goldfish, the 4 tetras and pleco were acting fine up until that second treatment. 
Bought some of those bacterial fizzing tabs they had at the pet shop and for 4 days my water was blue. I got irritated and emptied all the water but maybe 18-20 gallons. 
A few days of it being empty I added some new gravel to go on top of the old gravel. Bought 2 plants and filled it up. I also have a moss ball in there.

YESTERDAY, I picked up 3 flame tetras. I added stress zyme and stress coat, and a chemical I picked up that's supposed to help plant growth (once I finally get my tank truly established I want to set up a c02 system) The water was clear before I added the fish. Now it is cloudy. I keep reading different things and my major question here is should I do a 20% water change today, and how often should I be doing the water changes.. some say daily and other people say weekly. Next question is, in the future when I add a fish or two, do I need to do a 20% water change before adding the new fish? 

Sorry for it being so long but I felt I should include the back story

ohh and my levels are-
GH - 60ppm
KH- 80PPM
pH- 7.0
NO2- 0ppm
NO3- 20ppm


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You do know that goldfisha cold water fish) and tropicals shouldn't be housed together don't you?The higher temps will shorten the lifespan of goldfish and cause stress which can lead to disease.
Your reading seem good although I wonder how you ran your filter with water level so low and what happened to bacteria in it?
Change water weekly or when testing says to.You'll be better off(along with your fish) changing weekly and forming a schedule and % you do regulary.
The cloudy water is probly a bacterial bloom from something out of balance.Feed less for next 3-4 days and see if it clears up on its own.
All food should be eaten in 2 minutes and none should hit bottom.


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

Yes I know goldfish and tropical aren't supposed to mix, as far as temps go. I got the goldfish just to cycle and they were going to be given to a couple friends if they survived.. which they didn't. 

When the water level was that low in the tank the filter wasn't turned on.. it wouldn't have reached the water to filter anything out. There wasn't anything in the tank at the time. 

As far as the bacteria - I'm completely new to aquariums, and I bought this tank used.. the guy who sold it to me said the filter was ready to go - but when I went to go remove the activated carbon like the ich treatment bottle said, there was only a sponge. Then my water turned bright blue from the bacterial fizz tabs and I went and bought all the components for the filter. so I'm basically running a brand new filter right now. I'll be getting a new filter system anyway because I learned that my filter is for up to 60 gallons and I'm going to get a larger filter soon. (a few weeks) the guy who sold me the tank claimed it filtered up to 100 gallons.. 

Are my levels ok for now? From what I read they are about normal for a newer tank. And could the bacterial bloom be from the bottle of bacteria i put in that I got from the pet store or is this something different? 

Thank you for the response


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudiness (bacterial blooms) are a symptom of imbalance.Usaully from overfeeding(but not always).By changing your filter out,and shutting it off you eliminated your beneficial bacteria to a great degree.There may still be some ,but you now need to treat tank like "brand new" cycling with fish in.Test your water for ammonia,nitrItes and nitrAtes everyday until you see 0 ammonia,and 0 nitrItes.
I realise those are your readings NOW,but this may change soon.Besides if you had heat going,and meds the goldfish died from ammonia or nitrItes.
If you now only house 3 flame tetras you will cycle slowly and should look into TSS or Dr Tims one and only(bacterial supplements) as those two only have any findable documentation of working.They need to added before you have ammonia of 1ppm or the ammonia may just kill them and be of no use.
In the future when you upgrade your filter you need to leave the one you are using now running in tank ,along with new for possibly one month,and personally I wouldn't eliminate the original filter as 2 are better than one and a 75g can handle really massive filters(check into aquaclear 110 if you are going with hang on back).
If your ammonia rises above 1-1.5 you will need to change water to eliminate it.The % of water changed is how much you will lower the nutrient,so if you have 1.5ppm ammonia and change 50% you will still have .75ppm ammonia.(which would /will be why many say do LARGE waterchanges(upto 75%) if your levels get that high.
Good luck and ask away on anything.You won't be in this position forever(maybe a month hopefully less).


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor
Very helpful for water changes / fish choices.
The every week thing is the least stressful way for the fish as there is no great change at any one time.
The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle
If you have any fish left now that's ok but don't add any more till the tank cycles.
Tetra SafeStart at PETCO
This makes the cycle take less time. The directions say to use all at once but my local fish store people said to use half in two doses a day apart from each other.
Unless it's some dust stirred up from the substrate the cloudiness is likely a stage of the cycle. If you have used no additives(which you did and their reaction to/with
the bacteria is different in each case depending on what additives)then green would be the next phase("algae bloom").
Blue/cloudy/green...what color is next...LOL...just be patient and let it cycle. All color will disappear/w water changes but in time. Just do the recommended amount of
water changes(according to the above site) before you add any more anything except maybe plants. 
The entire insides of your tank, the inside walls of the filter, the inside walls of the glass, the surface of decorations and gravel are all parts of the biological filter.
That is why it is recommended NOT to clean the glass at the same time you change the filter media(well since I'm in there already).
Just ask first mainly...lots of people here to help...
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

I did not "change" the filter, exactly. The filter that came with the tank only had the sponge.. I just added the activated carbon. I have the same sponge in there. ANd I left my original substrate. I just added more because I had about 35 lbs of gravel, went and bought another 45 lbs. 
When I set everything up I read about cycling, I just screwed up because I was too impatient. My 3 flame tetras seem to be doing great but hey it's only been 36 hours or so lol. I picked those because I read they are very hardy fish, great for beginners but they need a very clean environment.. (and because out of the tetras I thought those and the bleeding hearts were very pretty) which is why I'm silently obsessing about water changes right now. 

I really appreciate the responses. I do think that my ich treatments are what killed those fish but could also have been nitrates/nitrites or ammonia. I'll take you guys' word for it you're way more experienced than I am. I'd rather believe it was the nitrates/nitrites than me killing them from too much ich treatment. I used the 5 in 1 strips 2 x daily and from the get go nitrites were always reading 0 and nitrates always at 20. I just ordered the API freshwater master kit to compare readings. 

and before I forget - as far as cloudiness goes due to over feeding I don't think that's it because I just now fed them 2 hours ago. I was hoping someone would tell me the cloudiness is just part of the cycle  Just trying to make sure I do things right this time because killing my fish really sucked.


Also thanks Raymond S for the links and letting me know to kinda expect green water when the algae bloom starts.. I hadn't read about that yet lol


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I agree with the above posts .


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The cloudiness will go away on its own in a few days to a week.Juust don't mess with water if you don't have to.
Good for you ordering liquid test as the strips are known to be very innaccurate(and don't even test for ammonia I believe).
Be patient,the sponge should have a good amount of bacteria(I only use sponges for all my filter{no bio crap}).If sponge needs to be "cleaned" rinse only in tank water during water changes as this will preserve the bacteria(not kill it like tap with chlorine).
I think you'll be alright,just keep us posted.


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

I didn't want to have to do a partial water change until next friday when I add in another dose of the beneficial bacteria and the stuff for my plants. I'll be back to post my levels when my python vacuum and api test show up


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't add bacteria within 24 hours of water change with dechlorinator(just what I've read from those who used TSS).


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

I got my freshwater test kit. 

Nitrite - 0.25 ppm
pH low end - 7.6
pH high end - 7.4 
ammonia - 2.0 ppm
nitrate - 10ppm

I did a partial water change on Wednesday. I didn't add the bacteria like coralbandit suggested. I can't remember exactly when but I went to the fish store and talked to the manager there, she's always really helpful. She did a water test for me said my levels were looking ok and suggested I get a couple more fish to help cycle the tank. I went with 2 dwarf gouramis. I noticed when I got home, BEFORE I put these new fish in the tank that one of the dwarfs had a spot next to his mouth, it looked kinda like a pimple. I thought nothing of it at the time (like an idiot) 2 days after that I noticed he wasn't moving around much and wasn't eating. Went back to the pet store and showed the manager a couple pics of the fish. She gave me a bottle of sentry aq mardel maracyn plus antibacteria for free. it says to treat the water on days 1, 3 and 5. Treatment 1 went great, he started getting active and is eating again. I just did treatment for day 3 yesterday morning and now he's acting sluggish again. The spot on his face isn't getting any better in fact it's getting worse. None of the other fish are getting these, and the tank I got him from at the pet store all look fine as well. I took a couple pictures, they aren't the greatest quality, I don't have a nice camera just took it from my phone. If anyone could point me in the right direction, that would be great.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I will say the good advice from LFS ended when they told to add fish for your cycle,BOO HISS!Your ammonia is high and you need a75% w/c.Water quality should be your concern now,not meds.Take the gourami back as you shouldn't have two(they're both males) and in general they are a fish loaded with health issues.Whatever he has doesn't look good and is probly contagious.
This should help you understand cycling "fish in" http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fish-poop-you-primer-8310.html
Here's some info on dwarf gouramis Dwarf Gourami Fact Sheet
If it is not mentioned search dwarf gourami disease(they have their own disease named for them).


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

Kind of a dumb question but should i put the water dechlorinator in before the water change or after? i'm using a python. When I did my 25% water change I added in half while starting the water change and the other half after. Planning on picking up an under the sink water filter when I get paid but that's not for another week.


I just don't want the chlorine killing my good bacteria


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

When using a python(or any semi auto w/c system) most add dechlorinator to tank before starting to add new water.If your using prime(Best most economical choice) you need to add enough for the entire volume of tank(not just water replaced).Adding for just water replaced is for bucket changers.
The filter under the sink is a good idea but will not remove chlorine from water.Most catalytic carbons used to remove chlorine are in RO systems where the water passes very slowly through it.I use catalytic carbon and a 5 micron sediment filter for all my tank water(besides my RO/DI which has those filters also) but still dechlorinate with prime.Prime may seem more expensive(price per bottle) but the amount of water it treats is greater than any other product.I used to use nova aqua until I did the math.


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

Since my last post I have done 2 75% water changes. The ammonia is down to 1ppm and both nitrates and nitrites are at 0. The pH is still around 7.5

The gourami still has that mark on his face. He doesn't appear to be ill though. Still no symptoms on any of my other fish


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## hslade1987 (May 11, 2013)

Also I cant take it back, since my tank is "new" I got no guarantee


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