# Co2 Help PLEASE



## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

well where do I start.ill start with my light is on a timer it comes on at 11am and turns off at 7pm.next my ph in the morning is anywhere from 7.5 to 7.9 but when the co2 comes on at 11am the ph drops during the day around 3 or so its drops to around 6.3.i tried to run a airstone 24 7 and run a powerhead to ripple the top of the water at night when the light goes off but it did not change anything.last is the co2 problem.i have been running co2 for 3 weeks now.im using 2 drop checkers one in each corner.in the morning both are a blue green in color.after a few hours both turn a light green but when I turn the bubble counter up just a little in a few hours it turns a green yellow looking.thats where I am now.i need help with both problem.THANKS for your help.i hope I can get the problems worked out.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Are you sure the fluid in your drop checker is 4dkh?
You don't really want yellow IMO you want green(a light green may be fine if fish are ok).The air stone 24/7 is counter productive.Your pH should go back up when lights go off and co2 goes off(you are turning co2 off with lights?).Nothing wrong with 6.3 IMO if the DC says green?
What is the problem?Do you have fish in tank? Are they ok?How's your plant growth?should be a little better after 3 weeks?


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks colalbandit.the fish are fine.the plant growth on some are good and a couple are the same as before I started the C02here is where I got it and the 4dkh and the ph solution from.i thought by using 2 checkers to compare.what about the co2 blue/green in the morning? and should the drop checker be the same dark green in the morning 24/7? yes the co2 goes off when the light goes off.why cant I get the dark green?when it is a light green I turn the bubble counter up just a slight turn and it starts to turn a green/yellow. KH Standard / 4 dKH | Green Leaf Aquariums


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Dark green would be less co2 not more.By turning up the co2 you are driving the DC to yellow.
Blue/Not enough
Green/usaully just right
Yellow /boarderline too much.
The darker the green the less co2,the lighter the green(almost yellow) the more co2.
Are there fish in tank,and how do they act?


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks the fish in the tank are doing fine.should the dc be green in the morning and night all the time?mine in the morning is low by being a blue with a little green in it.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Blue at night ,green during the day.Plants respire at night;They use O2 and produce co2,the opposite of the day time.
So in the morning you are looking for blue and for it to turn green during the day.I start my co2 a couple hours before the lights turn on just so it will be there when they do.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks coralbandit.i was looking at it the wrong way.i will start over.i will start my C02 a couple hours before the light comes on and see.thats makes sense by turning it on a couple hours early that it would raise the Co2 up to green before the light cuts on.i have read somewhere that to turn the C02 on a couple hours after the light comes on and a couple hours before the light cuts off.you can read a lot of ways to do it on the internet which I think is wrong.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Just remember basic colors.Green good.The darker the green (more towards blue)the more it is light of co2.The lighter the green (turning yellow) the heavier the co2 is.With fish it is best to watch them as much as the DC.
It sounds like you had it rright in the beginning,but just didn't know what to look for?
Green is good!


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks coralbandit.thats really helps me a lot.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Good to see so many starting to get into CO2. So many people think it is a difficult task or that it requires so much more from you, but I personally don't think that is the case.

I like the two DC setup, but don't really think you need two. If you just have one placed at the opposite end of where your CO2 is coming out, you should be okay. Good circulation is key. I would shoot for the pale green color by the end of your light cycle. But don't stop there. Keep tweaking until you see your plants start to perk up, all the while paying attention to your fauna. Let them be your guide and not so much the DC. Once you get the metering valve adjusted to where it is doing you the most good, leave it. When you swap out for refill, adjust your working pressure to zero and leave the metering valve. Remember to pay attention to what working pressure you are set at. Adjusting that will change your bubble count or the amount of CO2 dispersed.

Personally, if I was going to run some type of bubble wand I would only do once the CO2 was off and turn it back off when I started enriching again. 

Have you also been using ferts? CO2 will nearly drive the need depending on light level. If your tank was previously CO2 limited, once that limitation is gone for the plant it will point out other areas that you may be deficient.

Good luck with it!


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Do you have an alkalinity (KH) test kit? If so, you might want to check your KH. It buffers your pH, preventing the pH from swinging so drastically. 4dKH solution means you have 4 degrees of KH buffering capacity, or 71.6 ppm KH (degrees KH = 17.9/ppm KH, or ppm KH = 17.9*degrees KH).

If your KH is low, you'll have more intense pH swings. You can boost your KH by adding carbonate ions via dosing baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). If you have shrimp or other invertebrates, be careful as they don't like the sodium too much. SeaChem makes a good Alkaline Booster that I use on my tank because I have very soft water.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Gizmo said:


> Do you have an alkalinity (KH) test kit? If so, you might want to check your KH. It buffers your pH, preventing the pH from swinging so drastically. 4dKH solution means you have 4 degrees of KH buffering capacity, or 71.6 ppm KH (degrees KH = 17.9/ppm KH, or ppm KH = 17.9*degrees KH).


I was thinking his kH in the tank was probly all good since the tank returned to original pH at night when the co2 was off.
If the pH stayed low after the co2 went off and then continued to lower day by day then I would be concerned with tank kH.
My tank goes from 7.4 to 6.3 everyday.I drive it to do this with co2.If you don't get lower pH reaings then you're not adding enough co2 to make any difference.I could drive it even lower if i wanted but at 6.1-6.3 my drop checker is a nice green(right where I want it).The pH "swing" from co2 does not seem to bother the fish at all.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks to all for the help. I cut the bubble counter down before the co2 came on after a couple hours the dc was green with a little blue so I turn the bubble counter up just a little and now it is green for 4 hours now and my ph is 6.8.im going to leave it there.im also going to cut my co2 on a couple hours before the light comes on like coralbandit does and see if that brings my co2 up to green when the light comes on. ill let you all know tomorrow about the co2 level when the light comes on. again thanks


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

A swing in ph of 1 full point is not a drastic swing by any means. I would argue that if you are not at least attaining a full point that you are not even close to where you need to be for CO2. It wouldn't matter what level your kh is. The important part of the kh is it returns the ph close to, or completely where it departed from. You can attain this with as little as 2dkh. Most recommend 3-5dkh. Mine drops in the 1.2 degree range.

I turn my CO2 on about 2hrs before I start also. When my lights finally come on the DC is still sort of blue and the plants are just starting to pearl. By the end of the lighting period the DC is a pale yellowish green. I turn off my CO2 1hr before the lights go out.

You want to adjust your needle valve where you don't have to move it. Leave it set and see where you end up at the end of the lighting cycle. If it is not what you want adjust up a tad and check again the next day. Keep doing this until you reach the point where your plants are noticeably perking up and your fish are not acting strange or up top trying to grab air. If you reach that point back off a tad and leave it.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

good morning all. for me I tried to do some of the stuff that youtube said to do and other places that I google said to do which now I think is wrong. now Im on the right road. i think I was right to begin when I had a green all day and in the morning it was green with just a slight blue.when I youtube it I was seeing dc that was a dark green so I tried to get mine a dark green but I could not get mine to do a dark green mine was green like it should be to yellow if I turn the bc up. I could not figure why I could not get the dark green and now I know to stop on green and things to look for.thanks to all for the help.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Let us know the results in a few weeks when you should start realy seeing the benefits. I've just upgraded to pressurised Co2 from DIY so I shall be tweaking my system to achieve the best also


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I will.i did diy for awhile but thought that this is a better way to go. my next door neighbor gave me the tank so all I had to do is buy the gauge. I got it from amazon for $100 bucks so I don't have a lot of money in my system. i have a 20 lbs tank.i started mine co2 a month ago tomorrow and I only see just a slight drop on the gauge. it should last a long time between filling. what size tank do you have? peoples here has really help me out a lot and now I know what to look for.i hope reading mine post it will help you out. good luck on your co2 system. let me know how your goes. I would like to know.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

The guys here have always been helpful  I paid £89 for my whole co2 setup including a full co2 tank and solenoid dual guage, bubble counter and new piping compared to the £180 I would have had to pay for a named brand premade kit. I believe mine is the same size tank I think its 2kg I can't remember lol


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah I just got started on CO2 as well... it's been about a week or two and i can already tell a significant difference with my plants! 

-Zeke


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

2014 is the year of Co2 users lol


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

For some of you...its about time.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I've been using it for a long time but ive decided to upgrade to pressurised after your obvious persistence


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

hello all well the last 2 days my co2 has been a green and the ph only drop during the day to 6.9 it was dropping to 6.3.i have been turning the co2 on a couple hours before the light.i also turn the light off a hour before the light goes off.the fish are doing great and plants looks really good so im leaving it set where it is.thanks all for the help.i will keep you updated in a week or so.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

hey guys how would it be to use this Aqueon Circulation Pump in my tank. will it hurt my co2?Amazon.com: Aqueon 06133 Circulation Pump, 950 GPH, 6.3-Watt: Pet Supplies


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If it is not aimed towards the surface I think circulator pumps are a good idea in co2 tanks.They help spread out the co2 saturated water.Also many links on nusciance algeas state increase flow/avoiding deadspots to be helpful in controlling it.I definately grow less(noticing none lately) on leaves of my plants since install 2 hydors in the back middle of my 180.If it moves the surface alot you will expell some of the co2,but really the co2 in 20lb bottles is cheap and you could just turn it up a little if you outgassed due to surface movement.
If you are fertalising,with decent lighting and co2 now you need to try to "prevent "favorable conditions for algae IMO.The circulation on the plant leaves is good"adjustable" plan.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

bolram said:


> I've been using it for a long time but ive decided to upgrade to pressurised after your obvious persistence


Hopefully it is working out for you. CO2 can take a little while to get a good rhythm and figure out the small details that can mean a lot.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I actually keep my powerheads sort of aimed at the surface. I prefer a lot of movement on the surface to ensure that I am also bringing in a lot of oxygen at the same time dosing CO2. It doesn't appear to hurt how long it takes to get to the right levels. I am sure that it helps gas off the CO2 fairly quick, which is fine.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Things seem to be going fine. Thanks to the solenoid it all shuts down before lights off and starts before lights on so far the plants seem to be perking up and growing nicely


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I have a 750 aquarium system power head from way back in the 90s.i thought about using it to move he water on the surface of the water.my eheim spray bar moves it a lot.i also have a uv that hang on the back of the tank and the water coming back in moves the water some.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

when I change mine 20lbs tank when it gets low how low should I let it get before changing the tank out for another one? and can I just unplug it and swap the tank out.is that the right way.thanks guys


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I believe once the pressure is around 100 you definitely know its time to refill the tank.

But yeah it is just as simple as disconnecting it (make sure the pressure is off) and either swapping or getting the tank refilled


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Some of the best advice I got was to weigh the tank(with regulator) right after filling it.The meter will(can) drop very quickly.Mine always seems to die on Sunday!If I didn't have the pH regulator I would refill when I was 2 pounds from empty.My aluminum 20lb bottle weighs 49.2 lbs when full!Thanks JC!


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

hello all.just a update for the last 6 days my plants really has taking off and the fish are doing fine.every morning I turn my co2 on (on timer) on 2 hours before the light comes on.when the light comes on the dc reads a light blue and a couple hours later its green and stays that way all day.i turn my co2 (on timer) off a hour before the light cuts off.i think now im on the way.thanks all again for the help you gave.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

where is the best place to buy a co2 tank?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

wherever you will get your refill should sell them(or just take a deposit and switch them out for you).


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I want to rent a co2 tank for a spare but thay said I had to have a business license to rent one.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Where are you located/Cali?
search ebay"co2 tanks for sale on ebay".some pretty good deals depending where you are and shipping.If you can't find one I'll search in location.
Used CO2 Tanks | eBay


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I bought mine of ebay a refurbed co2 fire extinquisher, no rental and as cheap as refilling a tank


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

rtmaston said:


> I want to rent a co2 tank for a spare but thay said I had to have a business license to rent one.


Go somewhere else.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

rtmaston said:


> when I change mine 20lbs tank when it gets low how low should I let it get before changing the tank out for another one? and can I just unplug it and swap the tank out.is that the right way.thanks guys


This is tough to say. I just depends on who you read. If you have a dual stage regulator you can go all the way down to below 100 psi. A full tank is about 840 psi. It will stay there the entire time until the last couple of weeks where it will start to drop fairly quick. Depending on your regulator you may be able to get down to about 200psi, but you need to watch your regulator. Single stage regulators "can" have an episode called end of tank dump. Some people change when theirs reaches 500psi. Others go lower. Bottom line, do so at your own risk. I have had EOTD once and it killed everything in my tank...10 fish.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks all for the info.coralbandit im in Tennessee.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

is it true you have to have the tank safety tested ever so many years.when I got my tank filled the guy told me I would have to have it safety checked ever 8 years I think he said at a cost of $35.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Where in TN are you, I'm in nashville. How do they perform this safety test?


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

im in Lebanon.i know you have been to the aquatic critter's more than once.chris is a great guy.i have been going there sense 1995.most of my stuff came from there.i just bought a ph monitor kit its real time.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

rtmaston said:


> im in Lebanon.i know you have been to the aquatic critter's more than once.chris is a great guy.i have been going there sense 1995.most of my stuff came from there.i just bought a ph monitor kit its real time.


More than once, I'm there like once a week, it 5 minutes from my house. And yes it's a great store.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

what kind of fishs do you have?right now I have a peaceful 29 gallons,a five gallon fluval with a pair of pink convict which had frys last week and last a 3 gallon tank with a betta in it.i also have a 55 gallon I do not have set up right now.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I've got a planted 29 with a female German Blue Ram and 10 cardinal tetras, a 20 with 9 tiger barbs and a 10 fishless cycling. I want some of those convicts. I also have a few tanks that aren't set up, 20long, 2 40 breeders, a standard 55, and a 56 column. I'm out of room to set these up ATM.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't know how long you have been going there but when I just started going there in 1995 it was just a small pet store and now its all most of the building.i used t go every Friday after I got paid and married.i would buy something every week and now I try and go once a month.i have to take care of my mon and someone comes for a couple days once a month.i try and get there on one of those days.chis is very good if I need anything he will mail it to me.some time maybe I could meet you there?


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I would be glad to give you a few it you want.the parents don't eat there frys.as I was told thay have frys every 30 days.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

Sounds great to me, if I had a pair of those it might give an excuse to tell my wife I need to set up another one of these tanks. Let me know when they get big enough, when the 10 is cycled I could put em in there temporarily .


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thay said thay pressure test the tank.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I will.i will probely keep them for a few months.when I put my hand in the tank both the female and male will bite your hands it kinda sting a little.it glad to find some one close buy.the convicts came from chris.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

rtmaston said:


> glad to find some one close buy.


Me too! 
I got all my fish and some of my plants from them as well.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

CO2 tanks have to be hydro'd every 5yrs I think.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks jrman83.i know that's for safety reasons.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

my gauges came with about 4 ft of yellow hose.it looks really good in the tank.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

have you been to the fairley new fish store called 7 seas in Hendersonville as its a nice looking store to.i bought a couple plants from them.


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

I've never heard of that one. I'll check it out ASAP. Thanks.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I just had my tank tested.It took them quite a while (my welding supply) or they just didn't call me as quick as they could?Every 5 years like Ben said.It cost me like $25,but while they were (sending out to be) testing my tank they gave me a tank(I paid for fill) to use.I thought it was a wicked good deal no deposit and even thought I was on my way to having two tanks!When the replacement tank was empty I went back asked about my tested tank (it was all good and waiting) and then they told me that if I wanted the replacement tank ALSO I needed to purchase or put $100 deposit on it!
I guess since they had my far better aluminun tank they weren't worried about a deposit,but when I got it back in my hands there tank was worth$$.
So I only have 1 tank,mine just tested and good for 5 more years.
My co2 has run out (too many times) on Sunday and wasn't refilled till Mon/Tues,but it never really caused a problem with my tank(I'm not that close to the EDGE HUH?).


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

my auto store rents them.i to would like to have a extra tank.i know someone who has a business lincense and I am going to try and get them to rent one for me.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Go to a welding supply store or google for one in your area. I use google maps to help me with that. You can type welding supply right in the search window and if you use your phone it will give ones around you. Brewer supply stores are a good source also.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks jrman83 for the info


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

here is something for the 7 seas fish store.7 Seas Aquatics (a Branch Off Of Aquatic Critter) Hendersonville TN


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

to rent a co2 tank runs $100.not to bad.by swaping the tank out I don't have to worried about the test on the tank every 5 years.i get a difference tank each fill.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

hey guys would this be a good tank to buy.thanks Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank New Aluminum CGA320 Homebrew: Kitchen & Dining


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

rtmaston said:


> hey guys would this be a good tank to buy.thanks Amazon.com: 20 lb CO2 Tank New Aluminum CGA320 Homebrew: Kitchen & Dining


That's a nice tank!Mine is aluminum and it is nice and light(when empty) compared to steel.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks coralbandit.i would like to buy 2 tank and have one I could just swap out.if I buy the tanks and take them to get filled does that meen in 5 years or what it is to have them tested.i guess I would have to leave it.how long does it take to do the test.i know you get your tank filled every couple months.i think I will probly get 6 months out of mine I hope.i guess I will have to make a trip back and pick it up.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

They took a whole tank(in time) to test mine.Like 2 months ,but as I said before they gave me a tank without deposit while they had mine.It's like $25 to fill mine and was like $20 to have it tested.
They explained how they test them and it is a process that takes some time.First my welding supply wasn't who tested it.They sent it to an "official tank tester",where they fill the tank up to very high pressure and then submegre it to apply more pressure I believe and wait "X" amount of time to see if it holds the same level.
Mine checked out all good and "whoever" stamped new numbers on it(I could have stamped new numbers!).


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

thanks coralbandit for the info.i did not know thay sent it to someone else to test it.thats why it takes so long.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

rtmaston said:


> thanks coralbandit for the info.i did not know thay sent it to someone else to test it.thats why it takes so long.


Some local welding shops can test in-house. It just depends on who you go to. Some have to send your tank out to get it filled, some don't.


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