# Help! Ammonia going berserk!!



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Hello everyone! I wanted to reach out and see if I could get some help. I'm having a huge issue with ammonia and I can't seem to get rid of it. I bought an Aqueon 55gal starter kit for my two boys and let the tank cycle before adding fish. I bought a master test kit and tested the tank before I added fish. After the readings were okay we went and added some fish to the tank. I added fish over a few days as I did not want to bombard the tank with a ton of fish all at once. Over the last two weeks my ammonia has been at 8ppm (dark green) even at times it will be blue which isnt even on the chart. It has not gone down despite the things I have researched and tried! I did a 75% water change the other day and when I tested the water 2 hours later and it was still 8ppm (I use a python gravel vac). I just dont understand. I tested my tap water and it has 0 ammonia. The thing that baffles me is that I have not lost any fish and its been two weeks at this high rate. They swim around and look very healthy and fine. No spots, no gill discoloration. I did go to the LFS to check my water just in case my kit was messed up somehow and they got the same results.

My current specs/readings are:

55gal Aqueon quiet flo filter (2 filter cartridges which are caked and I swirled and cleared the debris in existing aquarium water when I performed my last water change)

pH 6.8-7
Ammonia 8ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
82 degrees
I have three plants in the tank (did have 6 but the fish destroyed the others when I started only feeding them once a day). I know that I definitely over fed them at the beginning but have since kept it to once a day- very sparingly)

I have the following fish in the tank (all an inch or less except pleco):
5 tiger bags (less than an inch for each)
2 black mollies 
3 blue gouramis 
3 rainbow sharks 
1 red tail shark (half inch)
1 gold nugget pleco (inch and a half)

I have a feeling that I am about to get flamed on having an overstocked tank haha. I was using API products until recently I read about Prime and Stability. I have begun using them instead of the API.. I have not been dosing the tank full of chemicals altho I did use AmmoLock briefly. 

Any advice would be great to have. I've read on this so much since its been a problem for awhile but there are so many suggestions out there and I have almost tried everything!! Nothing is working!!  I can't even get the rates to budge. I hope someone can shed some light on this! Thank you in advanced! 

Doug


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

Your readings say you did not cycle your tank. A cycled tank would show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 20 or below nitrate. 8 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate means you do not have a cycled tank. It is on the very first step in cycling. 

I am not flaming. The numbers don't lie.

To solve the problem. Take the fish back or do water changes daily. Use a seeded medium like carib sea, or microbe lift. Add benificial bacteria. There are many companies that make them. For a 55 gallon, just borrowing a friends filter may not work. 

My understanding of these tonics used for getting an instant tank is that they detoxify ammonia, and that is cool until you understand that you are removing the food the nitrosomonas and nitrobacters eat and need to reproduce. If you are putting those in you will get false readings up and down. They are for emergency use only, and you may need to cycle again. In a healthy tank you should not need anything but a chlorine/ chloramine detoxifier. 

A fishless cycle takes about 6 months With nothing but some ammonia and chlorine detox. A 55 gallon tank will take quite a long time to build up an adequate colony of benificial bacteria. 

All I can say is get seeded liquid or strata, and wait a week or two while keeiping the fish in ultra pure, hygenic conditions.

Sorry.


----------



## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

^ i think she means 6 weeks to cycle without fish, not months, anyways

now that you already have the fish in, and probably want to keep them in, start doing large water changes until the amount gets down under 0.5ppm, twice daily if needed, you are now cycling with fish in, this can be done as long as you keep up the water changes.

also, you're not really overstocked per se, you just stocked really incompatible fish together, tiger barbs are fin nippers and will wreck havoc on gouramis and mollies, you can really only have 1 gouramis as they will fight, same with the rainbow/red tail sharks, only 1.

sorry but that's the way it is.


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

Marshall said:


> ^ i think she means 6 weeks to cycle without fish, not months, anyways
> 
> now that you already have the fish in, and probably want to keep them in, start doing large water changes until the amount gets down under 0.5ppm, twice daily if needed, you are now cycling with fish in, this can be done as long as you keep up the water changes.
> 
> ...


Apologies. Yes, I meant 6 weeks.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks! No need to be sorry! I'll get this figured out . Go figure on the comparability.. Leave it to the pet store to tell me what works well with what haha.. I tried to do as much research on the fish as I could but so many people have things to say so I could never get a straight answer. 

What would you suggest for the water changes 50%?? Thanks again!


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

stang66dad said:


> Thanks! No need to be sorry! I'll get this figured out . Go figure on the comparability.. Leave it to the pet store to tell me what works well with what haha.. I tried to do as much research on the fish as I could but so many people have things to say so I could never get a straight answer.
> 
> What would you suggest for the water changes 50%?? Thanks again!


Anyone can jump in here if you don't agree. 

In your situation, 50% may be needed for a while. It is not the water that is colonised by bacteria, it is the rocks, plants, wood, filter. If I were you, I would pile in some junk like lava rock, filter medium and such To give the bacteria a place to cling. I would also stop using things in bottles. You might get a much larger filter as well. You did not mention how big a filter you had. For a 55 go 20% larger at least. A 70 or more. Keep your water absolutely flawless. Fish live in streams or lakes where new water is always drifting in. Over filter. If the fish don't like current, there are ways to avert it. 

I was serious about seeded bacteria. I had a tank once that gave me a black green ammonia reading. I put a bag of CaribSea instant aquarium in there and within 3 days my cycle had completed and it is still great with a once weekly water change. I am not trying to sell you anything, but like you, I erred, and I wanted to keep the fish in my (overstocked) tank alive. I have a serious loach addiction.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

kalyke said:


> Anyone can jump in here if you don't agree.
> 
> In your situation, 50% may be needed for a while. It is not the water that is colonised by bacteria, it is the rocks, plants, wood, filter. If I were you, I would pile in some junk like lava rock, filter medium and such To give the bacteria a place to cling. I would also stop using things in bottles. You might get a much larger filter as well. You did not mention how big a filter you had. For a 55 go 20% larger at least. A 70 or more. Keep your water absolutely flawless. Fish live in streams or lakes where new water is always drifting in. Over filter. If the fish don't like current, there are ways to avert it.
> 
> I was serious about seeded bacteria. I had a tank once that gave me a black green ammonia reading. I put a bag of CaribSea instant aquarium in there and within 3 days my cycle had completed and it is still great with a once weekly water change. I am not trying to sell you anything, but like you, I erred, and I wanted to keep the fish in my (overstocked) tank alive. I have a serious loach addiction.


The filter that came with the kit is the aqueon 55-75 quietflow 400GPH, it has two filter pads. As far a decor goes, I have a ton of it aside from the plants. A large ship that breaks in two (takes up almost half the tank), a couple medium sized rocks, some wood, and other misc decor plus about 60lbs gravel. I actually took some things out because it was just too crowded for my liking. 

Would you mind going on Amazon and sending me a link to what your referring to on the Caribsea please? Tons of things pop up and I want to make sure i get the right thing.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Just to give an update:

I did a massive (80%) water change and replaced one of the two filters. They were pretty bad. In doing that I have noticed the ammonia go down to 2-4ppm from over 8. That was two days ago and now its around 2ppm and still seems to be going down slowly. I have been doing 10-15% water changes since that large 80% change, mainly getting the waste out. I am still using Prime and Stability. Today I checked everything and the Nitrites are now going up.

pH: 7.6 (little high so I added some pH down)
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems the cycle is starting to, well, cycle now.. We looking about a week or two more as long as I keep up with the 10-15% WCs? Thanks for all that has helped!


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

Good things are looking up. Less than 2 weeks I'll bet.


----------



## Marshall (Jul 8, 2013)

stang66dad said:


> Just to give an update:
> 
> I did a massive (80%) water change and replaced one of the two filters. They were pretty bad. In doing that I have noticed the ammonia go down to 2-4ppm from over 8. That was two days ago and now its around 2ppm and still seems to be going down slowly. I have been doing 10-15% water changes since that large 80% change, mainly getting the waste out. I am still using Prime and Stability. Today I checked everything and the Nitrites are now going up.
> 
> ...


If by 'changed' the filter, you mean threw away the old one and replaced with a clean fresh one from a box, then no, you will restart your cycle every time, never change filter media unless it's falling apart, just rinse it in old tank water in a bucket and put it back,

you also need to change more water to get that ammonia down, if you are still at 2ppm, thats still way too high, changing 50% will put you at 1ppm, then another 50% will leave you at 0.5ppm, a little better.

don't be afraid to change too much water


----------



## L.West (Apr 26, 2013)

I completely agree with this statement:

"don't be afraid to change too much water"

But everytime I go into a pet store and they ask how much water I change each week and I say about 80% they freak out and say that is all wrong.

I just ignore them and go by what I've always been told on these forums.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

I do 'em everyday. I know about the 'do not change filter' rule and will follow that rule however I did want to restart my cycle at this point). Start over on fresh terms.  Also note that I did leave the other media that is junked up since it has two media filters in the housing. Seems to be working so I will continue my water changes until i get 0ppm on both ammonia and nitrate, with nitrate around 40-50ppm. I checked it this mornign before I elft for work and the ammonia was at 1-2ppm and nitrite was at .25ppm still. Nitrate still 0.. I'll do another large WC tonight. Put the boys to work


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

I have also been told not to change too much water too frequently. The fish poo and debries feeds the bacteria colony. If no food,no bacteria. The same problem having a planted tank with no fish. You need som dirtiness to get the protective army in there.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah I'm not doing more than a 50% WC.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Alrighty gang, i just finished my 50% WC for today and I am pleased to say I am down to:

Ammonia: .50PPM 
Nitrite: .50ppm
Nitrate: 5 PPM

Tomorrow after another 50% WC I am hoping to be at 0PPM on Ammonia and see where my nitrite spike will be!!


----------



## dhoch (Jul 14, 2014)

Your third leg of the water column is starting to come in, the nitrates are starting to show up. I agree with the guys on water changes we do a couple of 50% changes a week with one cleaning of 1/2 of the tank alternating the side each week, for the most part the BB does not live in the water. Never toss out your filter media until it is falling apart, just swish it in the dirty tank water that you drain out on your cleaning day and don't keep it out of the filter too long, it must be kept wet.


----------



## kellenw (Mar 28, 2010)

You might want to look into keeping some ClorAm-X on the shelf. It's a great dechlor product, but also cheap insurance for an ammonia spike.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Hi all,

Here is my update:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 5ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

Fish look good and healthy. Nitrite still high but the Nitrate is creeping up. I havent had a chance to change the water in two days so that is my mission tonight. I work for the Mets front office so with Opening Day around the corner I am having a hard time finding some time haha.


----------



## dhoch (Jul 14, 2014)

I would check your test kit. If you have 5 ppm nitrites your fish would be in bad shape. Nitrites are as lethal as ammonia for fish if not worse. Or did you mean 0.5 nitrites.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

dhoch said:


> I would check your test kit. If you have 5 ppm nitrites your fish would be in bad shape. Nitrites are as lethal as ammonia for fish if not worse. Or did you mean 0.5 nitrites.


Nope its dark purple. They survived high ammonia for several weeks and didnt seemed overly stressed.


----------



## kellenw (Mar 28, 2010)

If you haven't already done so, I would seriously consider adding enough salt to get the water to about 1-1.5 ppt salinity. This will help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning. You will likely see nitrite spike at this stage in the cycling process, so it's cheap insurance.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

yes i have been adding aquarium salt to the tank once a week during heavy water changes.


----------



## stang66dad (Mar 23, 2015)

Looks like I am almost there!!!! 

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm

I actually saw my golden nugget out and about.. He or she always hides inside the ship.. Not sure if the better water conditions are bringing him/her out or not.


----------



## kalyke (Nov 19, 2014)

Good. Nitrite is the scary one.


----------



## teday (Mar 26, 2011)

stang66dad said:


> yes i have been adding aquarium salt to the tank once a week during heavy water changes.


I have been having the same problem. I dont understand what happened, my tank was well established for many years. Suddenly a few fish died and the tank went cloudy.
Anyway just wondering how much salt do you add? Will rock salt for a culligan unit work?


----------



## Waterworlds (Apr 12, 2015)

Your nitrates are very high. When we have to do a fish in cycle, we change 50% water everyday. Like someone else mentioned, it's not the water that holds the bacteria.

I encourage you to do 59% water changes everyday. Once your tank has cycked, you'll get an off the charts nitrate spike within two weeks.

I hope you have an app master test kit? Use it everyday...

Good luck!


----------

