# Help would be much appreciated



## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

Hey everyone. I'm setting up a brand new 30gal tank and having some difficulty getting my cycle started.

After getting it setup and then putting the water conditioner and bacteria booster I let it set 2 days. I then put two Mollies into the tank to get the cycle going. They were dead by the next morning.

I tested the water and found only very small traces of ammonia. So I took the two dead mollies back to the store and exchanged them for two giant danios hoping they would be more hardy.

When first put into the tank they gasped for breath at the surface for half an hour or so and eventually started swimming around exploring the tank. One of them then calmed a bit and floated right off the bottom. I immediately performed a 20% water change and treated the water with Stress Coat+.

They seemed to be doing a little better right after the change. I went to run a few errands came back about two hours later and one was floating upside down barely alive. He died shortly after. The other is floating with his body vertical, tail up barely swimming. He seems pretty short for this world. 

UPDATE: while I was typing this he started his death throws and passed away shortly after.

What's up? I've got an 18" air stone with a 50 gallon rated pump, so I don't think aeration is an issue. My temp is at 76F. Below are all my numbers from my API master test kit.

Ammonia: 0.0-0.25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Ph: 7.9-8

Four fish in less than 24 hours... what gives? When I setup my first tank without having any knowledge of cycling or aquariums I stocked it full to the brim and only lost 3 before it was completely cycled. Why am I having such bad luck with just two at time?


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

try getting your fish from somewhere else...

honestly, I think the PetCo fish may be the problem...


try bringing your temp up to 80 as well. I'd also recommend introducing them with the proper drip method


Every Molly I've ever had has been extremely tough. I've had them survive ammonia spikes of 8+, massive bacteria blooms, even jumping out of the tank and almost dried up completely, only to have them keep on living like nothing ever happened


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Agreed.Try to get one from a local mom and pop petstore.Also,when picking out fish,the ones who are darting about may seem the good choice,but usually they are darting about because something is wrong with them.Look for clear eyes,clean slime coat,and schooling fish should school.No frantic darting or heaving breathing,or clamped fins.


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> try getting your fish from somewhere else...
> 
> honestly, I think the PetCo fish may be the problem...
> 
> ...


Yet my 10g is full of nothing but Petsmart fish because when I started it I didn't know any better. They have been completely healthy save for one small outbreak of ich that I was able to remedy in about 3 days with little trouble.

I feel like I'm doing something wrong here and I have no idea what it is.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Could be the batch they have now.What type of fish are in the ten?If possible,put two of them in the new one and watch for signs of distress?

What type of conditioner and bacteria booster do you use?Do you have an airstone?Maybe the bacteria booster is pulling out the oxygen.


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

majerah1 said:


> Could be the batch they have now.What type of fish are in the ten?If possible,put two of them in the new one and watch for signs of distress?
> 
> What type of conditioner and bacteria booster do you use?Do you have an airstone?Maybe the bacteria booster is pulling out the oxygen.


I've really grown attached to the fish I have in the 10g which consists of tetras, platys, a molly, and some cory cats. I don't really want to risk their health or stress them. They went through enough with my ignorance of the cycling process when it was setup. They deserve to sit back and get nice and fat in a clean tank.

I do in fact have an airstone. An 18" airstone with a 50 gallon rated air pump. I highly doubt there is an issue of aeration. I used API Stress Coat+ for water purification and Topfin Bacteria Supplement(which is API's petsmart brand I do believe).


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm considering just cycling it fishless now. Quite a bit discouraged by losing those four fish. Does anyone have a guide they can post?


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

so 30gallon tank w/ 18in airstone conditioned and used a bacteria boost. Try a 50% water change, wait an hour and test water again. See if you can find a local mom n pop store to get your fish from...might not have the best selection as compared to petco/petsmart but might have better fish(health)


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

Josh said:


> I'm considering just cycling it fishless now. Quite a bit discouraged by losing those four fish. Does anyone have a guide they can post?


http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/fishless-cycle-9364.html
by Amie(spelling??)


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> so 30gallon tank w/ 18in airstone conditioned and used a bacteria boost. Try a 50% water change, wait an hour and test water again. See if you can find a local mom n pop store to get your fish from...might not have the best selection as compared to petco/petsmart but might have better fish(health)


What am I looking for to change in the water? What numbers are off? 

Is it my Ph?


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

M1ster Stanl3y said:


> so 30gallon tank w/ 18in airstone conditioned and used a bacteria boost. Try a 50% water change, wait an hour and test water again. See if you can find a local mom n pop store to get your fish from...might not have the best selection as compared to petco/petsmart but might have better fish(health)


I think I may suck it up and make the hour drive out there if I decide to try cycling with fish again. With gas as much as it is, I was trying to avoid that for cycling fish. Definitely getting my cichlids there.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Don't get Mollies. Not the best fish to cycle a tank with if you get more. If you go fishless, I'd use ammonia over flakes. Flakes decay and then in trun create the ammonia. Better to just add the ammonia.


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## Niki7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi Josh, I had a couple thoughts. Not being new to the hobby, you might have already thought of these or do these things, but figured I would make the suggestions anyway! 

First, if you pick up your fish at the lfs, is it over an hour away? So, how are they being transported? Could the water cool off to an unsafe temp for fish on the way home? Since I am up in MA, if I have to transport fish I bag them and pop the bag in an insulated lunch bag to keep them from getting too warm or cold. Sometimes just a temperature shock is enough to do them in.

Second, when you get them home, do you float the bags in the water for awhile before putting them in? Drip acclimating them is a good idea too, I float them for 15 minutes, then every 15 minutes I add some water from the tank into the bag, continuing to float them for at least an hour before putting them into the tank. Some people take much longer to put them into the tank but I generally get impatient! *whistle*

Lastly, I know you mentioned using water conditioner. Just make sure it takes care of chlorine and heavy metals if your tap water contains them. I also second Travis's suggestion to up your water temp to 80.

Good luck...hope everything works out!


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

Decided to go with a fishless cycle. Put a big pinch of flakes in last night and my wife just called to tell me my water had gone completely murky, so hopefully my bacteria are having at it. 

For a fishless cycle do I just keep putting in more flakes as my ammonia levels fall? How long do the bacteria need to be fed so that they can handle fish load.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

you'll hafta add in a certain amount, a big pinch is to much guess work. Watch your levels you'll see the spike go up on amonia then down, then nitrites up and down, then nitrates. Once you see 0,0, something do a 50% water change. You should keep adding the same amount of flakes the whole time. Once you get fish you can stop feeding wait a few days then feed the fish. the fish will take the place of the amonia instead of the flakes. The wiser users on here please correct me if im way off. I dont wanna lead anyone down the wrong path by bad info.


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## Josh (Mar 12, 2011)

Just got home to some really cloudy water. Was hoping to see the ammonia had spiked but everythings still reading zero. What gives


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

This is why adding flakes is not the best method for controlling what is going on. You can't throw food in and expect that a few hours or days later that somehow ammonia is going to appear. The food has to first start to decay and once that happens then there could be ammonia present. The problem is how much to add. Food decays at different rates so it will be difficult to control how much ammonia is in your tank.

If you dose ammonia...you add enough to bring the value up to 4ppm, remember that amount and dose it everyday until nitrites start to show and then cut in half. A little more to it than that in the end, but extremely easy to control.


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