# 10 gallon tank build



## JoannaBanana

I have an 10 gallon tank, with 10 pounds of gravel and one plant, (sword-something) filled with tap water. I want to build an ideal environment for fish, and I need pointers on all areas. I want to build a good environment slowly and patiently with lots of plants, adding fish lastly when all is ready and stable.
What type of filter recommended?
Types of plants?
Types of fish? (Something pretty for my 5 y DD's benefit and a shrimp or two.)
Can I add something to dechlorinate the water, or do I need to empty this tank and start again? And what is best dechlorination method? 
Best kits for testing water?
Is a heater necessary?
How long do I keep lights on?

And anything else important I neglected to ask!

Keep in mind that I'm a beginner. I'm not looking to start a fishery or expand to multiple tanks. Think simple and sturdy! Thanks!


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## majerah1

You know you want lots of tanks,secretly,lol.

This is all based on the assumption you are going fresh and not salt,ive no experience with salt,lol.

Lemm see if I can answer a few of theseVery first thing you need to do is cycle the tank.I suggest a fishless cycle,which is written about here:http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.htmlAfter the cycle is complete you can think of the fish you want.
For the filter,you have a few choices.Most will go with a hang on back style as they are affordable and easy to setup and maintain.Me personally I like canister filters but they are pricey and I am not sure where to find one for a ten gallon,too lazy to look,lol.

Plants will all depend on your lighting.If you have the lighting that came with the tank,then most of the plants will need to be lowlight,such as cryptocornes,java moss,java ferns,anubias and a few sword species.You can fill a tank in with these plants and it look wonderful so just because they are low light doesnt mean the are no good.

Livebeareres are pretty common and colorful,but be aware they breed easy and will quickly overstock your tank.With shrimp,its going to narrow them down a little more as well.I believe killifish can live in a ten gallon,are very colorful and easy to care for,but can be hard to find local.Guppies are very pretty and easy to come by.

Best water testing kit is the API master freshwater kit.

A heater is necessary if you keep tropicals.There are a few coldwater fish(goldfish)but none that will live in a ten gallon,as they all grow large.

The lighting period depends on the plants.I started out eight hours a day,and increased mine up to eleven,with no ill effect but itll depend on the plants and the lights.
Now for someone to come and give more advice!


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## JoannaBanana

So you think I can just proceed with the Fishless cycle with the water that's already in my tank? I took the dead minnows out immediately so there was no decay, but the water is still chlorinated straight from the tap. Can I just add the dechlorination stuff to the tank or do I start over? Also, what dechlorination product(s) do you recommend?


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## beaslbob

I recommend (very humbly------not) you look up the beaslbob build threads here.

I would recommend you add some peat moss to the substrate and use a mix of fast growing (anacharis, vals) and slower growing (small potted and 1 or two amazon sword) plants.

my .02


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## Ruslan

Hi I've got a 10 gallon tank too, in it I have a group of mountain minnows, zebra danios and 1 of them white danios. I think zebra danios are really pretty little fish and can be funny to watch and because theyre small they dont crap as much as bigger fish, also Someone told me about some really cool snails called 'assasin snails' they get rid of pest snails and look great with their weird shape and tiger stripes, Oh and moss balls are cool plants.


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## fishman81

ok basically i would start over, beaslbob has a good concept going, but if u don't want to do live plants (they can be harder to keep alive than any freshwater fish i've aquired), and don't want to worry about lighting, add de-chlorniator, like prime, do a fishless cycle (look on the forums for some ideas on this, or google it and discriminate carefully), or add a couple danio's after adding dechlorinator, test it with an API test kit every couple days, and read up on the nitrogen cycle.


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## susankat

The beaslbob method is great, but personally I don't think it would be good for someone just beginning. If you don't want to try live plants right now you can get some good artificial plants to start off with then slowly start replacing with live plants.

I believe fishless cycle is the best way to go as it doesn't harm the fish and would be less work for you since you won't have to do water changes. If you do decide on Bobs method, get lots of plants to fill your tank, it does help filter the water and makes for a healthier tank.

Prime is one of the best dechlorinators you can buy, but you could also use others if you don't/or can't find Prime.

Fish for a 5 year old I would say they would want something colorful. You can look into the glowfish which are danios and they come in several colors and you could add up to 10 if you do it slowly.

Good luck and there are several of us that is sure to help if you have any questions.


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## mec102778

Bealsbob tank build is simple and you don't have to plant it right away. I would recommend at least doing the substrate in the Bealsbob fashion so you don't need a complete overhaul to get the plants you want in there.


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## rtbob

Hello and :welcome:


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## Rob72

i have the Bealsbob build in my tank, i did a tank about 5 weeks before i joined this site and i still have no idea what im doing but thanks to this site i have a very nice tank, there is a ton of advice on here just ask and people will jump in and help you out


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## JoannaBanana

I really want lots of plants, so I think I'm going with beaslbob's build. So, with beaslbob's build do I have to add dechlorinater? How bright of lights?


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## phys

definately do something on the lines of what beaslebob did.. i'm using straight gravel and its been slightly difficult to get rooted plants going in it. hope it goes well for you!


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## JoannaBanana

So I've built my substrate with 1-1.5" peat; 1" sand and 1.5" gravel. I put in a tube of amazon sword (3 little plants) and a tube of wisteria (5 little plants). I couldn't find the anacharis or vals beaslbob recommends.  Budget is pretty tight so I'll have to wait on more plants.

I returned the 10 gal. open tank for another 10 gal. that came with a top, lights and a filter. I am wondering now: the beaslbob build suggests no filter. This definitely appealed to me when i had no filter, but now that i do have one... should I attach this filter? 

Also, the lights are two 25 W incandescent. Is this good for a plant heavy set up?

Thank you guys so much for your opinions, experiences and expertise!


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## phys

you can use the filter if you'd like.. it doesnt hurt anything. Change the incandescents with compact fluorescents (CFL) and you'll use less power and have more lighting. 13 or so watts each of 6500 CFLs will work just fine .


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## beaslbob

Rob72 said:


> i have the Bealsbob build in my tank, i did a tank about 5 weeks before i joined this site and i still have no idea what im doing but thanks to this site i have a very nice tank, there is a ton of advice on here just ask and people will jump in and help you out


dern

You mean it worked??????? *w3

thanks for feedback and it is nice to know it has worked.


I always kinda wonder if the "beaslbob build" or my typing, wording, and english is clear and easy to follow.

so your feed back is very much appreciated.

Thanks.


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> I really want lots of plants, so I think I'm going with beaslbob's build. So, with beaslbob's build do I have to add dechlorinater? How bright of lights?


Do not use any chemical of any kind and replace the incandescent bulbs in you hood with 11w 6500k spiral bulbs for wall mart.


(repeating PM here for everyone to see. )


my .02


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## Big Dog

Hello and Welcome to thre forum.


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## JoannaBanana

Aquarium Gallery - 10G, 1st fish

Here is a link to what the tank looks like now.

To beaslbob: does this look like enough plants? I have bulbs pending, too (that is, if they don't rot!).


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> Aquarium Gallery - 10G, 1st fish
> 
> Here is a link to what the tank looks like now.
> 
> To beaslbob: does this look like enough plants? I have bulbs pending, too (that is, if they don't rot!).


I would use more but the anacharis and wisteria should expand and fill the tank rapidily like in a month or two.

Don't feed that fish the first week. then add a couple of females and feed 1 flake per day for a few weeks.

Hopefully things will be fine and you can set back and enjoy the kids enjoying the tank.

and finally update us here.

Tank looks good to me.


my .02


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## JoannaBanana

Yes, that is the plan. Got the one male Sunburst Wag Platy (daughter named him Derek), no food for the week, and will add two females then. 

I am anticipating/hoping these live-bearers will bear some live ones.  So will we have room for anything else? Is there a "cleaning crew" type fish/invertebrate that would work well? Again, only 10G. I was gonna pick up a ghost shrimp to go in w/the male platy today, but the employee at the pet store said fish would eat the shrimpy. We were really hoping for a shrimp, or something other than a fish, to round out the tank. Any suggestions? 

Also, if there is room, what other fish would be good "friends" to the platys and would not eat whatever shrimp or other cleaner fish we do add? 

Appreciate all the feedback!


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> Yes, that is the plan. Got the one male Sunburst Wag Platy (daughter named him Derek), no food for the week, and will add two females then.
> 
> I am anticipating/hoping these live-bearers will bear some live ones.  So will we have room for anything else? Is there a "cleaning crew" type fish/invertebrate that would work well? Again, only 10G. I was gonna pick up a ghost shrimp to go in w/the male platy today, but the employee at the pet store said fish would eat the shrimpy. We were really hoping for a shrimp, or something other than a fish, to round out the tank. Any suggestions?
> 
> Also, if there is room, what other fish would be good "friends" to the platys and would not eat whatever shrimp or other cleaner fish we do add?
> 
> Appreciate all the feedback!


I've had neon tetras, danios/glo fish and others with plattys. no shrimp.

no cleaning crew needed. But you will get snails from the plants. 

Sounds like you're on your way. Let us know how it all works out.

my .02


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## JoannaBanana

So, day two and the platy (Derek) is just sitting at the bottom. I thought he was sleeping or dead so I touched him with the net, he swam away. But he keeps returning to the bottom. He doesn't move unless someone bumps the table. Then he flutters his fins, but just stays there. 

I don't have any testers. I took a sample to the fish store and they tested it and said it was "normal", "good." I didn't get any numbers from them. 

Is there something wrong with this poor platy? Or could he be just really tired and resting? (That is what my 5yo thinks is going on.)

I hope I don't kill another one....


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> So, day two and the platy (Derek) is just sitting at the bottom. I thought he was sleeping or dead so I touched him with the net, he swam away. But he keeps returning to the bottom. He doesn't move unless someone bumps the table. Then he flutters his fins, but just stays there.
> 
> I don't have any testers. I took a sample to the fish store and they tested it and said it was "normal", "good." I didn't get any numbers from them.
> 
> Is there something wrong with this poor platy? Or could he be just really tired and resting? (That is what my 5yo thinks is going on.)
> 
> I hope I don't kill another one....


that does not sound good.

Laying lifeless on the bottom and breathing heavy happened when I fed the first platty. But it happened on the 3 day. On the 5th day they died.

He should be up and swimming about and active.

If you could I would move him to an established tank or talk to your LFS. Perhaps they can get him in one of their tanks for a few days until he recovers and the tank recovers as well.


Funny thing was on my tanks after the first fish died the second one always lived. So hang in there.

did you replace that live sand? Just a thought.

my .02


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## JoannaBanana

No, I did not replace the sand, but got the water tested after and got "normal" reading . I am taking the water to be tested again, today and will get the actual numbers.... maybe that will shed some light.


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## JoannaBanana

Ok. At the pet store. Test results:
Nitrate -0
Alk -120
PH- 7.8
Am-0.5
I know that PH is a little high. What would you recommend? Some "PH Down"? Don't want this little Platy to croak!


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> Ok. At the pet store. Test results:
> Nitrate -0
> Alk -120
> PH- 7.8
> Am-0.5
> I know that PH is a little high. What would you recommend? *Some "PH Down*"? Don't want this little Platy to croak!


NO NO NO!!!!!

and again 

nope. *old dude

PH is high because the plants are consuming the carbon dioxide. Which is exactly what the platty needs.

(my planted tanks run 8.4-8.8 api high range test kit and fish requiring low pH (7 or less) live and thrive for years.)

the problem I see is the ammonia. After 2 days it should be 0.

If you must save that particular platty the best thing is to get him in an established tank. Then let this tank adjust. In an ammonia free tank he will perk up in a matter of hours.

Whatever you do, do not add any food at all. That makes the situation much worse.


my .02


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## JoannaBanana

Add nothing to correct ammonia? would more plants help? I was thinking of picking up another clump or two of anacharis....


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> Add nothing to correct ammonia? would more plants help? I was thinking of picking up another clump or two of anacharis....


Anacharis would help.

things like prime are supposed to lock ammonia and help but they have adverse side effects like locking up oxygen as well.


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## JoannaBanana

I'm glad you caught me. I had just left the pet store, was supposed to go to a friends, but was making a special trip home to add that PH balancer. So I will return that tomorrow and add a couple more anacharis bunches. I will keep you updated on the platy. 
In the meantime, I still have the incandescents that I got with the tank. I was going to pick up the lights you (beaslbob) recommended earlier:
"replace the incandescent bulbs in you hood with 11w 6500k spiral bulbs for wall mart."
However, will I need to get a heater when I switch to the spirals? Everyone says tropicals need a heater, and I don't have a heater. These hot incandescents are keeping it warm. And BTW, what would be the harm in keeping the incandescents? Light and heat in one, two birds with one stone, right? I've read CFL is better for the plants. Is that the main reason? Are the incandescents too hot? If I do need a heater, any recommendations?
I don't know what I'd do w/o you guys, so willing to help a clueless novice! Well, actually I do know: I'd be killing lots of fish through trial and error! And then giving up! Thanks for all the advice!


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## fishman81

JoannaBanana said:


> I'm glad you caught me. I had just left the pet store, was supposed to go to a friends, but was making a special trip home to add that PH balancer. So I will return that tomorrow and add a couple more anacharis bunches. I will keep you updated on the platy.
> In the meantime, I still have the incandescents that I got with the tank. I was going to pick up the lights you (beaslbob) recommended earlier:
> "replace the incandescent bulbs in you hood with 11w 6500k spiral bulbs for wall mart."
> However, will I need to get a heater when I switch to the spirals? Everyone says tropicals need a heater, and I don't have a heater. These hot incandescents are keeping it warm. And BTW, what would be the harm in keeping the incandescents? Light and heat in one, two birds with one stone, right? I've read CFL is better for the plants. Is that the main reason? Are the incandescents too hot? If I do need a heater, any recommendations?
> I don't know what I'd do w/o you guys, so willing to help a clueless novice! Well, actually I do know: I'd be killing lots of fish through trial and error! And then giving up! Thanks for all the advice!


most plants don't grow well with incadescents, reason is they are not bright enough to provide proper photosynthesis (they don't even approach 6500k as far as brightness, they are more of a yellow color really). They do provide heat as you mention though. You should have a heater and a thermometer to make sure the heater is working well unless you live in a super warm enviroment where your room temp is 80 deg. or so. Farenheit.


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## JoannaBanana

Well, we are in Arkansas where it's 90-100F all summer (well, nearly 5 months), but we keep it about 78F in the house. But in winter we like it cold in the house, don't run the heater much, about 50-60F. So, I guess I'll be getting a heater, at least to run for half the year. Any recommendations?


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## Pigeonfish

JoannaBanana said:


> Well, we are in Arkansas where it's 90-100F all summer (well, nearly 5 months), but we keep it about 78F in the house. But in winter we like it cold in the house, don't run the heater much, about 50-60F. So, I guess I'll be getting a heater, at least to run for half the year. Any recommendations?


I live in Florida and it's the same.

I use ViaAqua. But I never see those anymore. Glass heaters work well and are less expensive. Just don't drop em and don't turn em on until they are in the water for about an hour.

Edit: They might crack if you just turn em on right after putting it in the water, I also used a 75W heater for my ten gallon.


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## JoannaBanana

So, update on Derek, the Platy: a miraculous recovery. So he was just sitting on the bottom, next day he's zipping around again. I returned the PH balanced, picked up four more bunches of anacharis (snail city?) and planted those. Left and when I came home again, 4 hours later, he's the peppiest pup I've ever seen, zipping to and fro, nibbling off of the plants. I was beaming ear to ear! I'm not a serial killer after all! I guess it was just a little ammonia spike, probably brought on by the addition of himself to the tank, coupled with not quite enough plants? Sound about right? I am looking forward to adding some girlfriends for him next Wednesday.

So I went to my Walmart and it did not have the 11w 6500k spirals. It only had 10w 5500k and it was not spiral, but a "u" shape. Would that b ok? I looked in the fish supply department, but this was not a Walmart that actually carried fish. Maybe that makes a difference. I am going to kmart tomorrow and check there.

Will red cherry shrimp be ok tankmates with platies? I actually wouldn't mind if in the event they mated if some of the shrimplets became fish food. But I don't want to go there if even the adults would be chewed on. Neither of the big chain stores here (Pet-Co and -Smart) carry RCS or assassin snails...


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> So, update on Derek, the Platy: a miraculous recovery. So he was just sitting on the bottom, next day he's zipping around again. I returned the PH balanced, picked up four more bunches of anacharis (snail city?) and planted those. Left and when I came home again, 4 hours later, he's the peppiest pup I've ever seen, zipping to and fro, nibbling off of the plants. I was beaming ear to ear! I'm not a serial killer after all! I guess it was just a little ammonia spike, probably brought on by the addition of himself to the tank, coupled with not quite enough plants? Sound about right? I am looking forward to adding some girlfriends for him next Wednesday.
> 
> So I went to my Walmart and it did not have the 11w 6500k spirals. It only had 10w 5500k and it was not spiral, but a "u" shape. Would that b ok? I looked in the fish supply department, but this was not a Walmart that actually carried fish. Maybe that makes a difference. I am going to kmart tomorrow and check there.
> 
> Will red cherry shrimp be ok tankmates with platies? I actually wouldn't mind if in the event they mated if some of the shrimplets became fish food. But I don't want to go there if even the adults would be chewed on. Neither of the big chain stores here (Pet-Co and -Smart) carry RCS or assassin snails...


Hopefully it was close with derek and the ammonia is down and he has recovered. Don't add food for a week. things in the tank as still settleing in.

Never tried the u shaped but if they fit and are 11w 5500 or 6500k they should do. Get the 6500 spiral pig tails. they should have them. (at least they had them a year ago. LOL)

forget the shrimp for now.


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369

All the above.... As for a filter find one for say a 20 or 30 gallon Tank and get a betta, I have a Royal Blue Betta


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> So, update on Derek, the Platy: a miraculous recovery. So he was just sitting on the bottom, next day he's zipping around again. I returned the PH balanced, picked up four more bunches of anacharis (snail city?) and planted those. Left and when I came home again, *4 hours later, he's the peppiest pup I've ever seen, zipping to and fro, nibbling off of the plants*. I was beaming ear to ear! I'm not a serial killer after all! I guess it was just a little ammonia spike, probably brought on by the addition of himself to the tank, coupled with not quite enough plants? Sound about right? I am looking forward to adding some girlfriends for him next Wednesday.


dern your mean it worked *old dude that sound very good hopefully you are on your way.


> So I went to my Walmart and it did not have the 11w 6500k spirals. It only had 10w 5500k and it was not spiral, but a "u" shape. Would that b ok? * I looked in the fish supply department,* but this was not a Walmart that actually carried fish. Maybe that makes a difference. I am going to kmart tomorrow and check there.


Sorry I didn't catch this earlier. That's the wrong place. Try the lighting department. Part of the idea is to get inexpensive building material stuff not more expensive aquarium speciality stuff.


> Will red cherry shrimp be ok tankmates with platies? I actually wouldn't mind if in the event they mated if some of the shrimplets became fish food. But I don't want to go there if even the adults would be chewed on. Neither of the big chain stores here (Pet-Co and -Smart) carry RCS or assassin snails...


Others can say on the shrimp as I never have tried those. My gut feel is no. Don't bother with assin snails. Just let the tank itself limit the snails.

my .02


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## jrman83

Don't forget water changes as a way to control what goes on with the tank while cycling. Water changes do become needed in order to save the fish most of the time. Plants don't always consume it fast enough. I do weekly water changes in all of my planted tanks. 

I also would advise against adding any female Platies, unless you are going to have more tanks somewhere down the road. Although Platies take a year to be full-grown, they will start reproducing at about the 4-month range. Bottom-line is it won't take too long to be wondering what you're going to do with all the fish you have and it being in a tank that small just compounds the problem,


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## JoannaBanana

OK. Derek got his girlfriends today: a tiny platy named Molly and a big fatty named Zelda (sunburst wags both). My daughter picked the names, of course. Zelda is big, but not as big as the preggers I've been seeing on youtube.com. She's longer, too. Maybe she's just older? I dunno.

Beaslbob: too late! I didn't read your post in time. Bought aquarium lights today. $5.23 ea! I just figured I have a crummy Walmart, but I guess I just didn't look in the right dept. Arghh! 

So, I gave the fishies their first meal today. 2 tiny flakes which they found and consumed rather quickly. They are quite actively pecking at the plants and I'm wondering if they're hungry, but I didn't want to overload the ecosystem so I held off on feeding more.

So next questions: 
In a filterless tank, how often do I feed? (so as not to spike the ammonia and keep fish happy, of course!) 

How soon before we can add more friends? suggested mates?

If I don't separate the anticipated fry will the population regulate itself? I don't want to really expand into new tanks, and I only have so many friends who would take on babes. I've heard the adult platy may eat some of them and I really wouldn't mind adding something else that would eat the fry, but also be friendly with the adults. Does that sound morbid?

My daughter is really stuck on adding a shrimp or two.... Any input on shrimps? I read that with enough plants, Red Cherry Shrimp can cohabit with fishies, and that the fish can help keep the RCS population down if they have shrimplets, too. any comments, there?

Thanks, guys. Your help is worth $1,000,000.00!!


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369

If you are going to have more fish you really need to get a filter for the tank... RULE # 1 keeping fish is not always cheap.... It's like my grandson and step-daughter goes and gets a fish bowl and a Betta they add water fish dies and they do it again with same results ( what are they doing wrong )


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> OK. Derek got his girlfriends today: a tiny platy named Molly and a big fatty named Zelda (sunburst wags both). My daughter picked the names, of course. Zelda is big, but not as big as the preggers I've been seeing on youtube.com. She's longer, too. Maybe she's just older? I dunno.


that is very good news. Glad Derek made it. And larger ones are generally older among the same species.


> Beaslbob: too late! I didn't read your post in time. Bought aquarium lights today. $5.23 ea! I just figured I have a crummy Walmart, but I guess I just didn't look in the right dept. Arghh!


 So how did the "u tube" lights work? Perhaps there are other bulbs that work also.


> So, I gave the fishies their first meal today. 2 tiny flakes which they found and consumed rather quickly.


yep they will and that is a good sign.


> They are quite actively pecking at the plants and I'm wondering if they're hungry, but I didn't want to overload the ecosystem so I held off on feeding more.


good for you. Yep they will constantly peck at the plants grass an whatever. there are snail eggs, very very small "bugs" and algae they eat off the plants. Contrary to what some think, not adding food is not starving the fish during this period but simply over feeding them.


> So next questions:
> In a filterless tank, how often do I feed? (so as not to spike the ammonia and keep fish happy, of course!)


Depends on the tank but I feed lightly once per day. If you get cloudiness, the kill the lights and stop adding food until the water clears. Then resume with less lighting and less feeding.

BTW you tank is not filterless. The plants are filtering just fine.

and FWIW if you go on vacation for a week or two just leave and come back. The fish will survive and be glad to see ya when you return.


> How soon before we can add more friends? suggested mates?


wait a few weeks to see.


> If I don't separate the anticipated fry will the population regulate itself? I don't want to really expand into new tanks, and I only have so many friends who would take on babes. I've heard the adult platy may eat some of them and I really wouldn't mind adding something else that would eat the fry, but also be friendly with the adults. Does that sound morbid?


nope. you should get a relatively stable population of 15-20 platies in about 6 months or so. With several reproducing adults.


> My daughter is really stuck on adding a shrimp or two.... Any input on shrimps? I read that with enough plants, Red Cherry Shrimp can cohabit with fishies, and that the fish can help keep the RCS population down if they have shrimplets, too. any comments, there?


 Little to no experience but I did have a couple of shrimp in a 20g once. Ask people more in the know.


> Thanks, guys. Your help is worth $1,000,000.00!!


thanks and it is very rewarding to see my experiences working for other's as well.









psssst:










I'll take payment in small bills. *r2


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## beaslbob

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> If you are going to have more fish you really need to get a filter for the tank... RULE # 1 keeping fish is not always cheap.... It's like my grandson and step-daughter goes and gets a fish bowl and a Betta they add water fish dies and they do it again with same results ( *what are they doing wrong *)


they aren't doing the joannabanada method. *old dude
Serious read this thread. (note especially the first platty)
It is the plants and letting the water age with the plants for a week before adding fish. combined with not doing water changes. 

my .02


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## JoannaBanana

So updates and follow up questions:

So I've been feeding these guys Goldfish flakes. (I bought them back when I was given that red minnow I thought was a goldfish. I know. I was clueless. Still am, but am working on it!) They devour them like they are going out of style. Anytime anyone pauses in front of the tank they start pacing right under the little opening in the lid. They act like they are STARVING! I'm not sure about the amount of food. Just a little bit, once a day could be a different amount for different people. These guys act like they could eat it all, so I don't know that I can use them as a guide. When someone says "a few flakes" does that mean the big flakes or the tiny ones? One big flake could be like 10 small ones. So I guess: How much is enough? (Taking in consideration there are live plants.)

Also, this is weird: Sometimes their poop doesn't break off. My big girl, Zelda, has like two inches of poop string trailing behind her right this minute. Is that normal? Is that a sign of something weird going on? Is that a result of the Goldfish flakes? And the smaller female is trailing about a 1/2 inch right now. It looks freaky. So, anyone seen/heard of this?

Also, *to Beaslbob, esp.:* what do you do about cleaning the tank? You didn't recommend a cleaning crew. Does that mean you don't keep one at all? What do you do to tidy up? Do you vacuum gravel? The gravel is starting to look a little raunchy. And the poop is starting to build up in front. Now this is in comparison to the pristine tank I started with. I know it should more closely resemble a lake/pond than a swimming pool, but eventually all this waste is gonna pile up, right? So what is your recommendation, there? (Since I'm following your build.)

Oh, and they love uprooting all the anacharis. Everyday there are a few more strands floating. I'll replant them in the substrate, but they keep digging them up. Is the ferocity with which they attack the plants a sign of how hungry they are? Or are they just little trouble makers?

Anywho, they seem pretty happy, other than their cruising as restlessly as sharks. I just don't want any easily preventable problems to creep up on me. Lemme know what you think!


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> So updates and follow up questions:
> 
> So I've been feeding these guys Goldfish flakes. (I bought them back when I was given that red minnow I thought was a goldfish. I know. I was clueless. Still am, but am working on it!) They devour them like they are going out of style. Anytime anyone pauses in front of the tank they start pacing right under the little opening in the lid. They act like they are STARVING! I'm not sure about the amount of food. Just a little bit, once a day could be a different amount for different people. These guys act like they could eat it all, so I don't know that I can use them as a guide. When someone says "a few flakes" does that mean the big flakes or the tiny ones? One big flake could be like 10 small ones. So I guess: How much is enough? (Taking in consideration there are live plants.)


the real question is how much is too much. the fish can live for literally weeks with no food being added. But will die in days when too much food is being added. Your tank as it matures will be able to handle more food but during this critical period just literally a single flake per day. the fact they are active, and recognize you as food is an extremely good sign. and normal *old dude


> Also, this is weird: Sometimes their poop doesn't break off. My big girl, Zelda, has like two inches of poop string trailing behind her right this minute. Is that normal? Is that a sign of something weird going on? Is that a result of the Goldfish flakes? And the smaller female is trailing about a 1/2 inch right now. It looks freaky. So, anyone seen/heard of this?


normal. Also looks like she is not only healthy but getting plenty of food.


> Also, *to Beaslbob, esp.:* what do you do about cleaning the tank? You didn't recommend a cleaning crew. Does that mean you don't keep one at all? What do you do to tidy up? Do you vacuum gravel? The gravel is starting to look a little raunchy. And the poop is starting to build up in front. Now this is in comparison to the pristine tank I started with. I know it should more closely resemble a lake/pond than a swimming pool, but eventually all this waste is gonna pile up, right? So what is your recommendation, there? (Since I'm following your build.)


Actually I basically don't clean the tank. But you can just siphon off the top layer of "crud" if you think the tank looks better. But do remember that all that "crud" is breaking down and feeding the plants also.


> Oh, and they love uprooting all the anacharis. Everyday there are a few more strands floating. I'll replant them in the substrate, but they keep digging them up. Is the ferocity with which they attack the plants a sign of how hungry they are? Or are they just little trouble makers?


Yep they're hungry and attacking the algae, snail eggs, small small "bugs" on the plants. After a few months you may not need the anacharis but the replanting is very common maintainence of planted tanks.


> Anywho, they seem pretty happy, other than their cruising as restlessly as sharks. I just don't want any easily preventable problems to creep up on me. Lemme know what you think!


Sound to me like you have an excellent healthy active tank. *old dude

What do you thing?

my .02


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## JoannaBanana

So I found this really awesome shop nearby, Northside Aquatics. It is really cool. I picked up 3 Red Cherry Shrimp, a clump of Dwarf Hair Grass, and an Anubias; and some Duckweed, some kind of loose moss, and a few snails hitched a ride: Ramshorn, Pond snails, and 2 Malaysian Trumpet Snails. The seemingly very knowledgeable worker said that I shouldn't worry about the snails, that they're good for cleaning up a bit. She says when her snail populations gets a little big she puts some certain type of food tab in the tank at night (forgot what is was called) and in the morning the tab is covered with snails. Then she pulls it out and tosses it. That is enough to keep 'em from taking over the world.
One of the shrimp is carrying eggs. I hope she won't be too stressed with the move to carry them to term.... My daughter named the shrimp: Shrimperella, Sharlie and Apple Jack. The platies are not aggressive toward them at all. I saw one fish swim toward one to check it out, but it did not peck at it at all. The shrimp hi-tailed it and that was it. They seem to ignore them now. And the shrimp come out in the open sometimes, too--don't seem to nervous. 
I'm really excited about this. Don't want to jinx myself, but so far, so good. The new additions have been there since Saturday.

Now, I do have some very light green forming on the glass. I'm assuming this is algae. I was keeping the lights on 12+ hours a day, but am down to 12 even. Is that algae? Is there a normal amount of algae? Should I kill the lights for a while? Should I squeegee the glass? (Don't have a squeegee yet, but can purchase.) Will the new snails and/or shrimp help with algae on the glass or will they stick mostly to plants/gravel? If this is the beginnings of a problem I want to nip it ASAP. Thanks, guys!


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369

Sounds like algae and your snails and shrimp should help in keeping it in check. I would not turn my lights all-the way off just cut- back to 10 or 8 hours..


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> So I found this really awesome shop nearby, Northside Aquatics. It is really cool. I picked up 3 Red Cherry Shrimp, a clump of Dwarf Hair Grass, and an Anubias; and some Duckweed, some kind of loose moss, and a few snails hitched a ride: Ramshorn, Pond snails, and 2 Malaysian Trumpet Snails. The seemingly very knowledgeable worker said that I shouldn't worry about the snails, that they're good for cleaning up a bit. She says when her snail populations gets a little big she puts some certain type of food tab in the tank at night (forgot what is was called) and in the morning the tab is covered with snails. Then she pulls it out and tosses it. That is enough to keep 'em from taking over the world.
> One of the shrimp is carrying eggs. I hope she won't be too stressed with the move to carry them to term.... My daughter named the shrimp: Shrimperella, Sharlie and Apple Jack. The platies are not aggressive toward them at all. I saw one fish swim toward one to check it out, but it did not peck at it at all. The shrimp hi-tailed it and that was it. They seem to ignore them now. And the shrimp come out in the open sometimes, too--don't seem to nervous.
> I'm really excited about this. Don't want to jinx myself, but so far, so good. The new additions have been there since Saturday.
> 
> Now, I do have some very light green forming on the glass. I'm assuming this is algae. I was keeping the lights on 12+ hours a day, but am down to 12 even. Is that algae? Is there a normal amount of algae? Should I kill the lights for a while? Should I squeegee the glass? (Don't have a squeegee yet, but can purchase.) Will the new snails and/or shrimp help with algae on the glass or will they stick mostly to plants/gravel? If this is the beginnings of a problem I want to nip it ASAP. Thanks, guys!


Yep it's algae.

Kill the lights and the algae should die off in a day or two. Then resume with less duration lighting. The idea is to find a spot where the plants grow (longer) but not the algae (shorter (less feeding)).

Sure shoud like you going gang busters now. *old dude

my .02


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## Sweetgreenleaf1369

Leiden is a city in Holland ??


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## beaslbob

Sweetgreenleaf1369 said:


> Leiden is a city in Holland ??


yep

(actually netherlands)

see:

leiden holland - Google Maps


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## JoannaBanana

Well, I guess I did jinx myself. Right after my last post about how wonderful life is, I checked the tank and Shrimperella was dead. She was the one with the eggs.  She was completely intact. No nibbling from the platies, and I had never witnessed any harassment whatsoever. The fish pretty much ignored the shrimp. The other two shrimp are just fine. They swim around, nibble here and there. But Shrimperella spent most of her time hiding. I am wondering if the stress of the move was too much for an expectant mother? (esp. considering the others are active and are not in hiding.) I am gonna finish out the week and if everyone is still ok by Saturday, I may add two more shrimp. They kind of like a few around, don't they? The LFS lady said 3-4 was better than the two I had originally intended....

BTW, how many snails are too many? Those pond snails are prolific to say the least! I just caught two on video doing the dance of love on the front glass. I can easily spot a dozen at any given time, and am guessing they're like roaches: if you see one, there's a hundred. At what point should I start some population control? (I may pick up those food tabs, whatever they are, when I go to the LFS on Saturday--the ones I posted about earlier.) I definitely don't want to add any chemicals, esp. since the shrimp are so delicate. The LFS does carry assassins. That is also a possibility. I know that to a certain extent snails are good, but I don't know at what point they begin to overload a 10G. But I have noticed, since the snail pop. popped, the platies spend a lot of time pecking at the gravel. I'm guessing they're finding the eggs.


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## beaslbob

sorry about shrimp.

Don't worry about snails. There will be only a few after a few months.

and baby fish yet?

(can hardly wait for the kids to jump up and down shouting mommy mommy there's a baby)

my .02


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## JoannaBanana

Update:
So, as far as the platies go, they seem to be thriving. About the first of August the large female, Zelda, had our first order of fries--about 12. They ate them all, but one, who lasted about two weeks, until I went out of town for the weekend and my husband neglected to feed them. Someone ate the baby.... 
About a week and a half ago, Zelda and the smaller female, Molly, had "litters" at the same time (Zelda's 2nd since acquiring her), about 20 fries. So far, we are down to about four uneaten. I am hoping a female survives. I think I need another girl to take the pressure of Molly, and my husband does not want to buy another fish. He wants us to raise one ourselves. I'm not sure why, but the male, Derek, escorts the large one, Zelda, around like a chauffeur or a chaperone. Anytime Molly comes near, he darts at her, pecks her and chases her away. It is annoying to watch, and I don't understand why he's behaving that way....

Shrimp: As I reported, the berried female expired a few days after I added her. (I am attributing it to stress.) After about 4 weeks, the other two were still doing well, so I added two more, females I believe, bringing the total to four shrimp (1 m, 3 f). After about three-four weeks more, the male, who was among the original three, croaked. I am beginning to worry. Somewhere I read that if water parameters aren't perfection, Cherries will last about 4-6 weeks, then croak. That little guy made it about seven. So one original has been with us about 10 weeks, and two newer for about 4-6 weeks. Unfortunately, all female. One of them, one of newer ones, was going crazy last night swimming along the edge of the tank, swimming around and around and around. It was following the glass all around almost like it was looking for something. From what I read online, it sounded like mating behavior, but there ain't no boys in there! Any ideas?

I was getting quite a bit of green spot algae on the glass, so I bought two Zebra Nerite snails. They had the tank spotless in one weekend! So much so that I was afraid they would run out of algae to eat, so lights are back on about 12 hours a day again.

For now, I am letting the wisteria go wild. I want to give those four remaining fry a fighting chance and as many hiding spaces as possible. Right now, in addition to wisteria, we've got: anubias, aponageton (sp?), dwarf hair grass, and a tropical fern. There's a amazon sword plant in there somewhere but the wisteria has overgrown it. 

As far as the interloper pond and MT snails go, they are not taking over as yet. I really like the additions. After a feeding of the platies, the snails and shrimp gather in the front of the tank and look for leftovers. They are really keeping the gravel and leaves clean. BTW, there is this one snail that resembled a pond snail in shape, but was completely clear, a clear white body and see-thru shell. Now he's clearly outgrown all the pond snails. He's easily triple their size. Nowhere near the zebra nerite size, but way bigger than the pond snails. Is this a different type or just a freakishly large albino?

Anyway, that's the update. Beaslbob build: SUCCESS! I'm not sure if things are perfect for the shrimp. I will post water parameters later. Pictures to follow. Thanks for the guide, Beaslbob!!

:fish9:


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## JoannaBanana

Here's what the tank looked like about June 15th-ish, after it had cycled a week with plants and I had added first Sunburst Wag Platy, Derek.



This is about three weeks ago after a MAJOR wisteria pruning.



This is now. I am afraid that if I trim the wisteria now, the fry will have no place to hide!



Current pop: 3 sunburst wag platies: 2f, 1m
3 Red Cherry Shrimp, female
2 Zebra Nerite Snails
pond snails and Malaysian trumpet snails
Wisteria, dwarf hair grass, anubias, tropical fern, amazon sword, and aponageton (sp?)


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## beaslbob

Wow

I am impressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

and glad for your success.

I really do like how much the plants have grown and the fact things are thriving.

I think you will find the platty parents will tire of chasing fry so more and more will survive.

thanks for update.


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## JoannaBanana

Ah, thanks! I'm really happy with it. I can watch it forever and find cool new things going on in there. I am beginning to see how addictive this hobby can be.


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## beaslbob

JoannaBanana said:


> Ah, thanks! I'm really happy with it. I can watch it forever and find cool new things going on in there. I am beginning to see how addictive this hobby can be.


To me it is much more addictive when things actually live and you're not constantly "fighting" things so anything can live.

I am particulary impressed with hour quickly that initial platty recovered after adding the anacharis.

By the way. dinner's in the stove. *old dude

(so stop watching the tank *r2)


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## jrman83

Good luck on the idea of snails reducing their own numbers naturally. It doesn't happen in a healthy environment and every tank is different. I've had pond snails in my tanks well over a year and the population continues to grow. I have been exploring assasin snails, but haven't gotten any as of yet.


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## beaslbob

jrman83 said:


> Good luck on the idea of snails reducing their own numbers naturally. It doesn't happen in a healthy environment and every tank is different. I've had pond snails in my tanks well over a year and the population continues to grow. I have been exploring assasin snails, but haven't gotten any as of yet.


cut your feeding in half!!!!!!


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## jrman83

beaslbob said:


> cut your feeding in half!!!!!!


That could possibly work, but I only feed my fish 4 days a week as it is. Assasin snails will ensure complete eradication.


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