# Fishless cycle so far ( PDF included)



## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Hi all,
I just wanted to throw my cycle out here and see if you all could take a look at its progress. I'm in week 2 and all seems to be going good. My cycle seems to be on the road home as nitrites and nitrates are taking off and ammonia is being consumed feverishly. I attached a screenshot and a PDF spreadsheet of my progress. I've been keeping track of the cycle on excel and just would like some suggestions, advice or whatever on if it's going well and how I should go from here. One thing not listed is PH and that was tested last night at about a 7.4. All water changes were accompanied with Prime. Take a look and let me know how things look. Thank you


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Also to note I know I need to add ammonia tonight just haven't yet..advice ??


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

The progress of the cycle itself looks good. However, you're doing a fishless cycle, meaning there is no life present to be harmed by any of the nitrogen compounds. You do not need to be doing water changes. Adding dechlorinated water is ok, but not necessary. You do, however, want to remember to dose 1/2 the amount of ammonia that it took to get to 4ppm every 4 days (I think that's what the sticky says), which it appears you already know about.

Once your ammonia and nitrites drop to zero 24 hours after you dose ammonia, you'll know your tank is cycled, and you're almost there. Keep up the good work, don't worry about water changes, and when you do stock - remember that in most (freshwater) cases, ph isn't a big deal.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ I saw the part about dose only half ammonia. What I'm wondering is from yesterday to today I dosed to 4 ppm and within24 hrs amm was at .25. If I 1/2 dose every 4 days or even everyday the amm. In theory will be all gone if their eating 3.5 ppm right now ??¿


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes. If you dose and it's gone in 24 hrs, you're cycled.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^^^^^^ I just want to clarify whats happening now and update on what the tank is doing. As of now and the last 2 days i dose 2x a day at 12hr intervals. Meaning i will check amm. levels at say 8am and amm. will be about .25-.50. So i dose to get back to 4ppm and check again at 8pm and amm. levels are again at .25-.50 showing me if i waited 24 hrs all the amm. would be totally consumed, so i dose again to get 4ppm With that i see that the Nitrites are in full bloom due to amm. being highly consumed as well as high Nitrite levels (5+) on the API test. Nitrates are growing but still readable at about 20-60 ppm right now. This shows me i don't have enough Nitrates to compete with the large quantity of Nitrites. 

My reason for thinking the tank isn't cycled is if i add fish now with high Nitrite levels the fish will die. 

So what i am wondering is do i keep dosing to keep amm at 4ppm when needed till i see Nitrates grow and the Nitrites fall as they are (will be) consumed? I think i would consider that a fully cycled tank and then ready for fish...? 

Just wanted to send that out for clarification and to see if i should keep doing what im doing or alter something.

As always thanks in advance


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Our fishless sticky says once you detect nitrItes to dose ammonia every 4 days at 1/2 the dose you used to get 4 ppm the first time.When you add ammonia everyday still you will probly always have nitrItes?
I don't think you need to dose ammonia more to build up the nitrAtes I think you just need to let them consume the nitrItes you have.
Adding ammonia to 4 ppm is a much higher load than any reasonable stocking of fish will provide,so once the nitrItes go to 0 you really should be done.I can't say whether your method will work or how fast,but I would just dose 1/2 the ammonia,test the nitrItes in 4 days.If they are 0 then you could add a full dose that should be 0 ammonia and 0 nitrItes in 24hours.If this is how it is then waterchange to get NitrAtes to 10-20(so probly 80%{maybe more})and you are ready to FULLY STOCK your tank.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ OK that sounds plausible that dosing like I am may keep nitrites at a constant high. I never thought of that. So dosing have the amt every 4 days is what I'll try. 
Just to be clear since the ammonia is almost gone since I haven't dosed today...the bacteria won't die off and crash the cycle due to a long length of time with no food aka amm.?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You'll be all good(the bacteria that is) for 4 days.The bacteria can actually live quite a while as it will go into a "hybernation" type mode and then turn back on when needed!


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Awesome. I'll try the 4 days and check back. Just a question. My having dosed 2x a day would that be a reason nitrites are high and not dropping. Should I see them start to drop over the 4 days?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, that's what coralbandit is telling you. In a real world scenario, your bacteria will consume ammonia and turn it into nitrite. This gets turned into
Nitrate by a separate set of bacteria. Usually, again in a real world scenario, this happens so quickly (because of the significatly lower actual bio load, ammonia) that you should never see the nitrite register. What you're doing is constantly putting such an extreme amount if ammonia into the tank that the nitrate creating bacteria simply can't keep up. Again, as coralbandit said, this will never happen in a normally stocked tank. So, follow the sticky and only dose 1/2 original 4ppm ammonia amount every four days *until both ammonia and nitrites read 0.* Then your tank will be cycled. You see, the fishless cycle creates a very large colony of both bacteria...once you stock, the excess colony will die off leaving you enough to handle whatever bioload you stock with. This is why people say to stock fully immediately after the cycle finishes, and also why they say when adding new fish later on, do it slowly.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Mriguy..I'm curious. I went the route of the 1/2 dose of amm. and today is the day I should add to get 2ppm of amm. My question is 4 days ago since I didn't dose amm. has basically been consumed showing 0 for the last 4 days. My nitrites haven't budged. They have pretty much stayed at 5+ or so and haven't shown any signs of declining. Also nitrates really haven't spiked. They have been fairly steady within a 20-60 ppm range. Should I do a water change or just leave it and add amm. and keep waiting? Also I'm curious as I'll be away next week starting this Saturday and won't be home to dose or test and I have no one to stop in and check or test. I'll half dose on Saturday but should I also add say 3 shrimp just to have some food for the bacteria for the week?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm never an advocate of adding livestock knowing that they may die. I did a fish-in cycle for my first tank and it was awful watching the fish die. 

That being said, and Tom jump in here and let me know what you think, but as far as I can tell - your first colony of bacteria are grown as indicated by the ammonia being processed completely..you're just waiting on the second colony that process nitrite into nitrate to develop which is why you're not seeing the nitrites drop or the nitrates increase much.

To answer your first question, yes you should continue to 1/2 dose ammonia until your nitrites and ammonia both drop to zero. Do not do a water change. These no poin in changing water in a tank with no livestock in it and it doesn't help the cycle, but it May set you back a bit.

Here's where I need Tom's help: as far as I know, not dosing ammonia won't kill your colony or your cycle, as the colonies will just go into a hibernation-like state for that short of a period (1 week). Now, your cycle will take longer if you don't keep up on it. I suppose you could get one of those vacation fish feeder tablets and leave that in the tank which will decay and create ammonia for you ..in my opinion that's better than not dosing anything at all , and I do think that's a better option than sacrificing livestock, but let's hear tom's suggestion too. 

Aside from that, keep to the fishless cycle introductions..follow them completely and don't falter...no water changes, nothing that isn't listed there before asking. Also, what's your tank temp at? I cranked mine to 82 when I was cycling. And one more thing...I added a large bottle of tetra safe start. There's a lot of debate on whether or not it helps, but if you have the extra $ to throw at the tank I suppose it couldn't hurt.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I totally agree with Mri.I don't know if I would use a food block while gone though.
I think you are talking about dead shrimp to keep cycle going?It would be the same as food IMO.I would think you add ammonia(1/2 or full dose) before you leave and probly be ok when you came back as long as tank(filter and heater) stayed running.Upon return you could just dose ammonia(hopefully one last time) to be sure all bacteria were good and then do massive water change to get nitrates down and stock.If bacteria wasn't 100% good when you come back I really don't think it would be a whole week before it was good.
I actually think if $ is not a problem that the bottled bacteria(TSS or Dr Tims one and only) are a great addition to the fishless cycle and seems to have worked very quickly for those I have heard from.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

If it's dead shrimp you're talking about then I totally agree. Any decaying organic matter will create ammonia, I believe. I just suggested the food blocks because I have a couple sitting in my stand and it's all I could think of...throwing off your water parameters by adding ammonia is about all those things are good for in my opinion. Lol


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks guys a bunch. Yes I was thinking dead shrimp...say 3 of the type you get frozen at the grocery store. I figured my nitrate colonies are just trying to build up to process the huge amt of nitrites. I haven't done any water changes except the ones listed and i have thrown in API stress zyme + as it was suggested to me to get the bacteria moving. I have most things suggested in the fishless cycle thread.. I have 2 filter..1 penguin hob and one canister, air stone for o2, heat is up to 80 but I can bump that up. I also have about 8 plants in the tank. Now they are not huge plants and some are actually dying off or reacclimating. Some are taking off and doing quite well so I don't see the plant being a huge impact, maybe a bit but not huge. For the plants yesterday I added my co2 injection to help the plants but haven't started on ferts. 

Basically I'll add half dose tonight, the a half dose Saturday morning. I won't be able to dose til at least next Friday after this Saturday so I'll be behind on dosing about 2 days... With that since I won't leave the tank high and dry so to speak... Should I still add the shrimp. One thing I think that may be slowing it down is no decorations. Just substrate, plants and filters.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I would only use 1 shrimp if you really think you need too.It should be in a net also so it doesn't completely degrade and foul the tank.The problem with food or shrimp is you have no control over how fast they degrade and enter the water column,or have any impact on the "cycling process".Both of those methods also work but just not as controlable as adding a known amount of ammonia.
I 100% feel that the cycle will have very little if any noticeable impact from you being 2 or 3 days late.I would just dose 1/2 or whole dose before you go and see where it is at when you return.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

OK that sounds better just dosing amm. and see where is when I get home. I'm sure I'll have more questions and I can't thank you guys enough for all the help


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Yep, I agree with Tom. Not sure why that thought didn't cross my mind earlier. Guess 12 hrs of work will do that to you. Lol. But now that he mentions it, a whole dose of ammonia before you leave does sound like a good idea. I mean, what's the harm? The ammonia colony will eat it up, and then that leaves extra for the nitrate colony to consume while you're gone. Good call, sir!


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Hey guys i wanted to give an update to the cycle and see how things are going. As i stated i went away for vaca last week. Before i left i dosed the tank w 4 ppm of Ammo. ands before i left i checked all the reading and everything was fairly routine except nitrates were 80-160ppm I came back this past fri 6/25 and checked all the reading and ammo was gone and nitrites were still around at about 2-5 ppm and nitrates were at around 20-40 ppm. I figured since nitrates were rising quick the tank would be finished when i got home. So i dosed again friday night when i got home at 2 ppm. Ive checked the reading each night since and all readings pretty much the same. Ammo eaten in 24 hrs, nitrites about 2-5 and trates 20-40. So i checked tonight and trates are jumping up again to the 80-160 range. Here are some pics to see that i just took tonight about 8pm. Im curious..my next half dosage will be tomorrow night. Should i do a water change or just dose and test again and see what happens. I started the cycle at the end of june on the 28th so its about a month and i know i could go another 2 weeks before its finished. Just wanted to update and get some feedback. Thanks


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Why did your nitrates drop from 160 range all the way down to where they're at now?? As stated before, with a fishless cycle you do NOT need to change water. Your doing so may be slowing down your cycle. There's not much else to say other than what has already been said: keep dosing as per the guide on fishless cycle thread and stop changing water. Stop testing ammonia, stop testing nitrates. The only thing you currently need to test is nitrites until they drop to zero. Then run a test dose to ensure that ammonia and nitrite drop to zero within 24 hours.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

On the nitrates your guess is as good as mine. I haven't done any water changes was just seeing if that would ramp up the process. I'm supposed to dose tonight but nitrites still exist. Should I wait to dose until nitrites are gone or just half dose like the guide states?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

according to the fishless cycle sticky ;once nitrItes show you dose 1/2 original amount(should get you to 2 ppm) every 4 days till nitrItes zero out.
I would dose ammonia tonight if it has been 4 days.
Are you watching the time you let test "cure"?I know they are hard to read but your nitrates can only go up,there is nothing besides waterchanges that reduce them.
Always try to read your test results under the same lighting with the same background.
If somehow your nitrate test shows a lower level then before then I would test again to be sure you did it correctly.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Yea I only have been dosing 1/2 dose every 4 days. I forgot to last night so I will tonight so that will make it 5 days without dosing. I tested nitrites at 5 and they are over 5 ppm. I haven't checked nitrates yet. When you say cure you mean waiting the 5 minutes? If so then yea. I have noticed on nitrates say after 5 minutes it reads x ppm and let it sit in the tube for an hour after I see the color change to state more ppm. I'm wondering if I should wait longer than 5 minutes but my nitrites just haven't dropped yet. Starting to worry something has stalled or isn't working correctly


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Things seem to be working fine. This is not something that anyone can say will finish in exactly a certain time. Follow the sticky to the "T"...follow the test procedures to the "T". Be patient.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

:cheer::cheer::cheer:*chicken dance*banana dance*banana danceGood evening all. I want everyone to take a cigar!!! I tested my tank last night and amm. was at .25, Nitrites were sky high and nitrates were in the 40-80 range. She hadnt completed her cycle yet again. Well tonight at 8:56 she showed signs of coming full term. Amm at 0, nitrites at 0000000!!!!!!, and nitrates sky high!!! I couldnt believe the miracle that just took place. hahah all joking aside i see im in eyesight of the fisnish line. From the sticky i was reading dose again and check tomorrow night again to just make sure amm is at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates still in the sky. 


Just to get things clear since im in a haze of excitement.. i should dose 4ppm of amm tonight even though i half dosed tuesday night. After dosing 4 ppm if all goes well i should test amm. 0, trites 0 and trates at x...? right? If that is good do a water change and adjust temps. I didnt see it or i missed it but for wc what % should be done..50, 90? Also i will be working most of the weekend. In this case going to get fish will be tricky and i dont want to kill my cycle by not adding amm or fish. If i test good tomorrow can i still use the 1/2 dose every 4 days til im free to get fish. I assume this will keep the cycle strong until actually fish are housed?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Congrats! I would say you could probably just do a half dose and if it zeroes you're good! 

When doing a water change, change a massive amount. Bacteria doesn't live in the water so do as much as you can. I did 90%, but the guide to go by is change whatever amount is needed to bring your nitrates down to an acceptable level (10-20ppm). Depending on what they're at now, it may require two water changes.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks bud, one thing I screwed up on is the amm reading. When I checked it initially it looked yellow but checked again 20 min after the first 5 minutes and it was a slight yellow green. Maybe between 0-.25 ppm. I had already added enough amm to get to 4 ppm after I wrote the post.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

No big deal. If it's truly cycled it'll eat it up anyways.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

jeff5347 said:


> Thanks bud, one thing I screwed up on is the amm reading. When I checked it initially it looked yellow but checked again 20 min after the first 5 minutes and it was a slight yellow green. Maybe between 0-.25 ppm. I had already added enough amm to get to 4 ppm after I wrote the post.


If you let the test vial sit more then the time the test says to it will get darker regardless of true levels.I would think your first reading was correct and the second NOT.That and .25 can often be a false reading.It is very hard to tell colors.
It does sound like you are done.I can't wait to here test results tonight.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok so i tested last night at 1:30 am after i got home.. which was about 28 hrs after adding amm. I tested o nitrites, unreadable nitrates and amm. was about .25. Since amm was still readable even after a 24 hr period what should i do. I havent tested this morning so not sure if its still present. At least nitrites are working out now.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

.25 ammonia could be a false reading(it's the lowest for sure!).I'd say your all set!
Do a massive water change to get nitrates into safe zone and get some fish!


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Well just wanted to throw a last update to this thread. Amm and nitrites are constantly at 0 now. Nitrites are still to high I think...20-60 about. I have done the massive water change and then the next day did a 50% water change. Wondering if I should clean my filters in removed tank water? I decided on cichlids ( 2 blue rams, 2 kribensis, 2 festivums and 3 dwarf cichlids) and need to get the nitrates dropped.


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't touch the filter pads. Your bacteria that you just worked so hard to get are living there. The only thing that drops nitrates is water changes. Keep changing and filling and changing again until the number drops to an acceptable level. When you do clean the filter pads, only use old tank water to do so. Clean them gently, because if you're too rough you'll rub off the bacteria. You will probably never have to physically change them for new ones. I only clean my canisters when either the flow is significantly reduced, or it's been several MONTHS.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Yea thats all I ever did was clean pads in the old removed water. Since the fish are in it should b OK to change the water as many times as needed to bring trates down...? Is 2x a day to bring to acceptable levels OK?


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## Lasocki (Jul 23, 2014)

Has any one used bacteria in a bottle if so does it work to cycle a new tank?


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## MriGuy85 (Aug 29, 2013)

Lots of debate on that. I think the only thing everyone can agree on here is that if you have the money to throw at it, it can't hurt.


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