# please help! i need advanced aquarist advice!



## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

I have a 55 gallon tank, and used to have a TopFin 60 overhead filter...since i have a very interesting ecosystem (see below for wildlife) it became inefficient at cleaning the filth (had to change the filter bags every couple days) so i bought a Fluval 305, due to such high recommendation. it is a great filter, but due to the fact its intake and output are both submerged, it doesn't aerate. I had no idea this was going to cause a problem...until all my fish started swimming at the top of the tank, gasping for air...i knew i had to act fast. I did a 75% water change, added the water conditioner, I bought a TopFin 50 powerhead, and added two large, live water ferns. I also moved the output nozzle of the Fluval 305 closer to the top of the water, as to break even more surface tension. I do have a bottom aerator coming tommorow, but i have already lost 7 fish, and dont want any more casualties...the goldfish are back down to the normal swimming depth, but the 5 tiger barbs, and the 2 new angels are all at the top, displaying the same behavior. WHAT CAN I DO??

Wildlife:
1 Male Eastern Painted Turtle
1 Large Plecostamus
2 Large Goldfish
1 Small Comet
1 Chinese Algae Eater (Deceased)
1 Large Red Bellied Pacu (Deceased)
1 Juvenile Red Bellied Pacu (New)
5 Tiger Barbs (New)
2 Juvenile Veiled Angelfish (Deceased)
2 Infant Veiled Angelfish (New)
4 Minnows (Deceased)
2 Black Mystery Snail
2 Gold Mystery Snail
2 Large Water Fern

PLEASE HELP! *c/p*


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

I dont know about keeping a painted turtle with tropical fish. That might be your real issue


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

ive kept my turtle with amazonian tropicals for over a year with no problems. the turtle has even become vegetarian. (he was eating some of the smaller, slower, and dumber fish at first, but has since adopted a vegetarian and pellet diet, as turtles do when they mature. by the way, my problem i am talking about is occurring only over a less than 24 hour period.


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

I dont think i have the knowledge to help you but there are tons of people on this forum who do. Wait for one of the to post a possiable soultion is my only answer. Sorry


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I dont believe the Fluval is the sole reason for the deaths and the surface chop from the cannister should be plenty for gas exchange. I feel you have too many fish and the wrong combination of fish. The lg pleco, goldfish and pacu's are dirty fish and can cause your water parameters to go bad very fast IMO. I would seriusly look at your stocking because the angels shouldnt be mixed with any of your other fish IMO and you have tropical and cold water fish mixed and that shouldnt be done IMO. We might be able to help more if you can give us your actuall test results and your water change schedule.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Yikes! No offense but this is a disaster waiting to happen.

The Pacu is going to grow up fast and big and ... well ... an appetite to support it. Other fishes except for pleco aren't going to fare very well. Sry.

Changing the filters out shouldn't cause what you are seeing. Can you post any water parms? I'm suspecting something else going on here. Test your NH3.


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

I have kept these types of fish together for over a year, and yielded great communal results. Every time i tell someone at PetSmart what my community is, they always say "thats an interesting combination"...I dont believe any of the opinonation that certain fish dont belong together if the energy is right. Obviously you would'nt mix an Oscar with Guppies...but thats a totally different scenario. I really don't need advice on fish neighboring, ive been experimenting, and found great results for a while now. What i need is advice on water quality control, and Oxygen synthesis. Please accept my apology if i came off wrong, but i am really looking for info on chemistry, so how would i go about finding NH3 levels? should i get a test kit? or just bring a cup of my water into PetSmart? also...how can i reduce my algae growth? i know aeration is essential for the reduction, but i have 6 animals that eat algae...4 snails and 2 fish...shouldn't that be enough?


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

by the way, the tiger barbs have since taken to normal schooling depths and behavior, after a few solid hours of aeration with the powerhead. ive lost one of the angelfish, and the other one is still at the top with the strange breathing behavior. the new baby pacu is also doing just fine.


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Well if you insist on keeping all those fish together in a 55 gallon then I think you will need to be doing close to 50% WC twice a week. I also think you need to pick up some tes kits


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I don't see any possible way for us to help you with your combination. Even though it might be working for you now, it will eventually fail. Your filter isn't the problem. As long as there is good water movement from it there will be plenty of oxygenation to the tank. But may not be enough for the fish you keep. You can always add an HOB with your combination and the results will still be the same.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

WingChunFist said:


> I have kept these types of fish together for over a year, and yielded great communal results. Every time i tell someone at PetSmart what my community is, they always say "thats an interesting combination"...I dont believe any of the opinonation that certain fish dont belong together if the energy is right. Obviously you would'nt mix an Oscar with Guppies...but thats a totally different scenario. I really don't need advice on fish neighboring, ive been experimenting, and found great results for a while now. What i need is advice on water quality control, and Oxygen synthesis. Please accept my apology if i came off wrong, but i am really looking for info on chemistry, so how would i go about finding NH3 levels? should i get a test kit? or just bring a cup of my water into PetSmart? also...how can i reduce my algae growth? i know aeration is essential for the reduction, but i have 6 animals that eat algae...4 snails and 2 fish...shouldn't that be enough?


My apologies myself for questioning your stocking. I'll be honest and say that I very rarely question stocking of tanks. Only in extreme cases like this will I do. If I have or will offend you, then I apologize. What I am saying to you at this time, is that this is a recipe for disaster. Your Pacu(s) will in no way work in this setup. While they may now...it won't last. If you haven't done so now, I highly advise researching this species. They get huge and have an appetite that supports thier size. Most of what you have in here will be lunch meat. As you equated it....it's like putting in Guppies with Oscars. I can not stress this enough. And yes...I have much experience with this species.

Also, how long has it been since the canister has been in place? By removing the HOB, you have taken a big part of the BB (beneficial bacteria) that will combat the wastes that these fishies produce. Chances are, you probably have/had a big spike in your water parameters.

Anyway...my last comment on the stocking is I wish you (your fish) well. Your tank is way too small to support this "community". I just don't know what else to say on this one.

I'm not going to touch the algae issue at this time. Just because you have 4 snails and 2 fish doesn't mean they will keep the algae in check. Let's tackle one thing first. Let's see where your chemistry is first and we'll take one step at a time. I feel as if you have a lot going on here.

So....let's deal with your water chemistry issue. It sounds as if you do not have a test kit. I highly suggest that you get yourself an API Master test kit as soon as possible. You can take a sample to PS if you want but they use paper test strips and are not very accurate. Get the kit and please post up your results. What you really want to pay attention to is NH3 (ammonia), NO2 (nitrIte) and NO3 (nitrAte). I suspect these numbers are going to be very high.

One more thing...your water changes, are you treating the water with anything like Prime?

Let's start here and see what we can do to try and help you. I'll do my best to refrain from stocking comments. Let's try and save your fishies.


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

i want to say thank you to James0816 for being so helpful, you were the only person to offer truely helpful advice and not just opinionated statements with no factual basis. James0816 you are very knowledgeable and i appreciate this. I am thinking about re-releasing my turtle into the wild(i rescued him from his dead mother on the side of the road as a juvenile over a year ago...he has grown much, and i love him dearly, but i cannot in good conscience keep him anymore. i want to find a beautiful spot here in the Catskill mountains and let him be free again. That said, lets get back to the fish subject, so the Pacu...he is a baby right now and only the size of a nickel. the one that died due to improper aeration with the filter change, was about the size of a dollar bill. he never messed with any of the small fish and was albeit a vivacious eater of lettuce and algae wafers, a good tankmate that would let me pet him. anyway, the two goldfish started out as feeder fish (29 cents apiece) for the turtle, i dropped them in the tank about 8 months ago and they were never eaten...and grew exponentially...now they are about half the size of a dollar bill. they are coldwater fish as i have heard, but i regulate my water temp at 82 degrees and they are energetic, great eaters, have a good slime coat, and look very healthy. i really love the tropical amazonian fish...and want to focus on them...after i get the water levels how do i maintain safe amounts of chemistry and pH? also what are good fish to keep together with a pleco and a pacu? i lvoe these tiger barbs...but if the pacu has to go(ive heard they grow to massive proportions) should i get rid of it? i had a tiger oscar before, but it was too violent and attacked the turtle so i gave it back to the store...but id love to have one once the turtle is back in the wild...oscars are great. but i also really love angelfish...will the angels do well with an oscar? they are both cochlid family...does that mean anything? i cant afford a bigger tank right now, i just dropped over 400 with this filter, aerator, powerhead, plants, and other ****....and by the way, yes i do use prime water conditioner....thanks again James0816!:fish5:


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

WingChunFist said:


> how do i maintain safe amounts of chemistry and pH?


*You need a liquid test kit to determine the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels. I dont think the O2 level of the tank is causing the deaths because I inject my tank with CO2 for plants and keep my CO2 concentration at a high level with no deaths. I think your issue is the water quality, but we cant be sure until you get a test kit. 

You dont need to worry about the pH. Most fish adapt to your current pH and its too hard and fustrating to make the pH adjust to the fish. If the pH is nowhere in the extremes, I wouldnt worry about it.

You maintain your safe water chemistry level by doing water changes. Depending on your fish, and trial and errors, you yourself determine the amount of water changed weekly. I keep my nitrates below 10ppm because I have sensitive inverts, I think you should keep yours under 20ppm, or under 30ppm. But the closer to 0ppm, the better. Not a lot of people can maintain a 0ppm nitrate, you would need a ton of live plants and a low bioload. *


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

what is an HOB?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

WingChunFist said:


> what is an HOB?


*
Hang On Back filter, the ones you commonly see.*


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I have done African, Asian and South American tanks and it is usually best not to mix them too much or at least IMO. I feel that coldwater fish do best at between 68-74 degrees, most tropicals at 78-82 degrees and then some will do best at 82-86 degrees mainly Discus. 

I hope you can understand that we are just trying to help you and your fish as most of us have seen this or have raised some of the fish you have and most of us take this hobby VERY SERIOUS. I am not saying that you are not serious but might just lack the long term expierience that some of us have.

I hope you can pick up an API Master Test Kit that way when a problem comes up and trust me they can for all of us you can do your testing and post the results up here for a hopefully quick diagnosis from us. Then try to put yourself on a regular maintenance schedule because that will make things so much easier.

I see you like the Amazonian (SA) fish as I do. I would like to ask you to decide on the 1 fish that you would like for your center piece fish and then let us know what that one is. I know we can all give you some ideas on what would be compatible with that fish. I will say this that when you have a nice stocking of compatible fish you will enjoy your tank so much more. I was also wondering if you would like to try doing a planted tank if so let us know that also because that might help us with stocking suggestions. 

I hope I didnt upset you with this post as that was not my intent and if I did I am sorry. 

I am posting a couple pics of my tank to let you see what I have done, it hasnt matured yet and is still a work in progress.



















This is one of the better pics of one of my Angels


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## mudpup (Jun 4, 2010)

the turtle is the least of your problems. you basically did every bad thing i tell my customers not to do you mixed cold water and tropical fish. your way over populated. you mixed small peaceful fish with a Tankbuster. and you have a predatory turtle thrown in the mix. thats a bad idea lasagna. pick your favorite and post what it is then preform triage on your tank. and get rid of that Pacu or you'll be regreting it in 6 months if not sooner


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## longtail4711 (Jun 8, 2010)

Sometimes over-stocked aquariums can do just fine for a year or so, but then, BOOM. Something changes and it's tipped over the edge and suddenly it doesn't work anymore. I've had this happen before, so I know how mystifying it is and you think it can't possibly be that because everything was fine. In your case, you've had several juvenile fish grow up, so they would naturally more resources as adults. 

I'm really sorry. I know how hard it is to have to give up some of your beloved pets, even if they are fish. Fish DO have personalities, and they inspire us in so many ways. I'll try to help your questions. 



> also what are good fish to keep together with a pleco and a pacu?


A pleco and a Pacu (depending on the species) you are going to have to take into account that they both get very large. The larger a fish gets, the less fish you can keep with them because they take up resources whole schools of fish could use.

Pacu are solitary in nature when they grow up. They eat vegetables and small fish, so they will end up eating anything smaller than they are. They can get incredibly large, and 55 gallons is really too small for one. 




> i lvoe these tiger barbs...but if the pacu has to go(ive heard they grow to massive proportions) should i get rid of it?


The Pacu as it gets older will likely see your tiger barbs as a snack. 



> i had a tiger oscar before, but it was too violent and attacked the turtle so i gave it back to the store...but id love to have one once the turtle is back in the wild...oscars are great. but i also really love angelfish...will the angels do well with an oscar? they are both cochlid family...does that mean anything?


Oscars are extremely territorial, and so are angel fish. They will shred each other. Angels though are more peaceful and you can keep in a community tank.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

WingChunFist said:


> thanks again James0816!:fish5:


You're most welcome. There are some great folks out here and welcome the opportunity to help fellow hobbysts out.

Let's stay on the water chemistry at this point. Have you had the opportunity to get the test kit yet? Again, this is critical to know what the values are.

Now that you mentioned the temp of the tank, this becomes even more critical to know what your NH3 reading is. High ammonia combined with high temps are lethal.

To answer your fishy questions...man I hate telling anyone to get rid of fish...the Pacu is definately a big concern. The 55 just won't support him. And Mudpup brought up another thing about these guys.....tankbusters. They have been known to literally bust an aquarium! They can be very fun loving and friendly to you as they grow up as well. Easily trained to be hand fed and believe it or not...they do like to be handled. I haven't seen one yet that didn't. This of course depends on the owner though. Anyway...yes...he will get large. And they have a long life span too.

As for Oscars and Angels...wouldn't advise it. Oscars are mental. Not sure how they are wired but highly aggressive. While some are really beautiful...I think some people get them for thier temperment....like a pit bull if you will.

But definately get that test kit and post some numbers up.

P.S. Kudos on the turtle rescue too! We always help the little buggers out when we find them in the road. Hate when people see them as speed bumps.


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

thanks again...i spent a bunch of money on the filter and some aeration supplies so itll be a while before i can get the test kit. how much do they retail for and what is a good one? also i can tell you right now my temp...i have a submersible core heater that maintains an 81-82 degree temp and 2 overhead 5.0 UVB fluorescent 18" T5 lamps. they do provide a little ambient heat. Not a single fish, even the goldfish, are in any way sluggish, have poor appetites, or display poor coloring, in fact quite the opposite...they are all good tankmates, they eat with a great appetite, play and have lots of energy, and display fantastic, vibrant colors. the 02 problem has been solved and everyone seems so much happier...but i feel i need to tackle another problem. the tank has no backing as i prefer an open glass 360 degrees, and its next to a window with some sun...the water is a little green(even with all the movement) im assuming this is algae. i have my large pleco(hes about 7-8 inches) and 4 snails, all at work...but still green. i will replace the chinese algae eater with another one(i miss that guy) but will this be enough to control the algae? what should i do? test kit is next...but i want to tackle both these issues as it seems i am rapidly approaching a happy medium.

as far as the pacu goes...i will keep him until he is about 5-6 inches around again...then i will donate him back to petsmart. i really like him for now and he is schooling with the 3 goldfish. the goldfish will probably be replaced as well...any ideas? i really like eels and swords...is this a good idea? i am thinking i will post pics soon. my tank is a lot better off than many of you are probably envisioning, as i get constant compliments from everyone who sees it.

once again, thanks to all who have been so kind and offered great advice! and to the ones who are sarcastic and have a ****ty attitude....piss off.*w3


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

and to the ones who are sarcastic and have a ****ty attitude....piss off.

This kind of language is uncalled for. Even though you may not like the comments you were getting, their only concern is for you fish, whether you like it not. You don't have to accept any help that is offered, but comments like that is uncalled for by you or anyone else. Please refrain from using that kind of attitude on this forum.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

WingChunFist said:


> once again, thanks to all who have been so kind and offered great advice! and to the ones who are sarcastic and have a ****ty attitude....piss off.*w3


I agree....no need for this please. Please keep in mind that we all are out here to try and help ok?

If you can't get a master test kit...that's not a big deal. Instead...please just at least get a NH3 (Ammonia) and NO3 (NitrAte). These will be the most importantt this time. Each one of these are just a few dollars each. Pretty much non options really. Remember, we are trying to save your fishy friends and need these numbers in order to give you sound advice.

Your green water is an algae bloom and to combat that, you will need to do a complete black out of the tank. However, we really need to know some numbers first. If your NitrAte's are extremely high, the black out will not due much good.

It's not a good thing to try and nail everything at one time as this can cause more things to crop up ok?


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

WingChunFist said:


> i have a submersible core heater that maintains an 81-82 degree temp


*81-82 is a bit high for the goldfish. I would remove the heater completely from the tank, because goldfish require 65F-72F. But since you also have tropical fish, try pushing it to 75-77F.*



WingChunFist said:


> the water is a little green(even with all the movement) im assuming this is algae. i have my large pleco(hes about 7-8 inches) and 4 snails, all at work...but still green. i will replace the chinese algae eater with another one(i miss that guy) but will this be enough to control the algae? what should i do? test kit is next...but i want to tackle both these issues as it seems i am rapidly approaching a happy medium.


*Also, that green water, sounds like green water algae. And if you dont treat it now, it will become worse. Theres isnt any fish that controls algae, they barely eat enough to make a difference. You have to be the one controlling it. *


***I use API liquid test kits. But the one I use mostly is Nitrate because once the tank is cycled, I dont need the ammonia nor nitrite test anymore. Second to that is the Ammonia, then Nitrite. So If you want you can get them in that order. And like James said, you dont have to get Nitrite.***


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

i am sorry if i offended anyone...i just dont deal well with sarcasm and condescendence. i was only directing that to ppl i thought were being jerks. that said, i feel very honored and appreciative to have you guys as new forum friends who are taking time to give me such outstanding help! ok, so on to the test kits, i will be sure to buy an ammonia and nitrate kit, now i have heard about these blackouts...how do i go about them? will it affect my turtle as he needs daily UVB for vitamin D synthesis...i promise i will post some pics either tomorrow or the day after(i am having a medical procedure tomorrow and will be put under so i may be too loopy to post tomorrow.) also as soon as i get my test kits, i will post numbers. should i order from drfosterandsmith.com or just go to petsmart?


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

also i just dropped the temp on my core heater a few degrees, will have to wait till the am for an accurate temp reading...thanks again! :animated_fish_swimm


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## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I do appologize if I caused any problems. I would get the test kits from where ever you can get them the fastest and i would assume they should be very close to the same price. I would just reduce your lighting to about half of what you have been running and I say that as I have no expierience with turtles. When you get us the actuall test results it will give us a better idea whats going on. I feel that this is true for FW also and its a big one with SW Reefs Nothing Good Happens Fast so get us some numbers and we should be able to get you on the right track.


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*I have had experiece with turtles. Is it a type of slider? Move him to a dry container. He should be fine until the black out is over, which usually last about 3 days.*


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Definately pick up the test kits locally if you can. That way you save money by not having to pay shipping charges. Just be sure to get the liquid testers and not the paper strips (not very accurate).

As for the blackout...unfortunately I have no experience with turtles either. Maybe like Nursy mentioned about moving him to a temporary spot during this time?


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## Dmaaaaax (Nov 20, 2008)

> By removing the HOB, you have taken a big part of the BB (beneficial bacteria) that will combat the wastes that these fishies produce. Chances are, you probably have/had a big spike in your water parameters.


I am quoting the above in case you missed it. This is why your fish probably died in the first place. You had an overstocked tank, at a high temperature, and the removal of the Hang on the Back filter for a brand new one caused a mini-cycle to start. This was basically a spike in ammonia and nitrites which made your fish go to the surface for "air".

As your new filter began to kick in, and you did water changes, your levels went back down and your fish returned to "normal". You should be just fine with just the Fluval, but it never hurts to add more aeration. However the best way to do this is to lower your temp. Warmer water holds less oxygen so with the fish you have, I would lower the temp to around 75-78F. 

Because your tank is also overstocked, I would do larger water changes more often and make sure you add a few drops of Prime to the new water to get rid of chlorine and ammonia. As others have said, you may eventually want to trade a few of your fish in for others that will be more compatible in the long run. Overstocking them like you did will actually force them to live with each other (for now) contrary to what most people would expect. 

For example if you removed some of your bigger fish, you might then notice that the tiger barbs will act more "normal" and beging nipping at the fins of your angelfish...but right now, they are just trying to keep safe themselves. 

Alage: Direct sunlight might not be great but, you also have 2 T5 High output lights on a non-plant tank?! These are stronger than normal light bulbs and are not necessary. How long do you keep them on during the day? What wattage are they? This in combo with your tank doing a mini-cycle and having excess ammonia and nitrates will lead to green water every time!! Keep up with water changes to fix the nutrients and consider removing 1 bulb or at least turn down the hours/day they are on.

Good luck with your tank, and we would love to see some pictures.


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

ok folks, heres an update on "the jungle"! i have released the two goldfish into my neighbors pond...and they are loving their new home! i am maintaining a 78 degree F temp, i replaced the backing on my tank, and the algae is GONE! also the water so so clear now it looks drinkable! i posted some pics on my facebook, and will link the album. i made it public...so you should be able to see it even if you dont have facebook. if you cant, feel free to add me as a friend (just put aquarium forum in the invite so i know who u are) and ill add you. my name is Patrizio Alberto Murello if you want to search for me. lots of great pics, and everyone is doing great! thank you all so much for your help....test kit results on the way soon. 
:fish-in-bowl:

Login | Facebook


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## MasRoberts9 (Jun 15, 2009)

I can say that this mix of fish is highly uncommon, but doable. I had a similar mix myself for a long time. 12" oscar, 14" red eared slider, about 40 varius cichlids like mbunas including demasoni, auratus. zebra, kenyi, labs, socolofi, etc. , convicts, a jack demsey (for a short time), nics, then i had goldfish (meant to be food for the oscar, but left uneaten for over a year. now it did continue to eat goldfish, but it left these particular ones live.)rainbow sharks, 2 giant plecos in a 55 running an emperor 400 as filteration. As the fish grew i increased the filtration to 2 emperor 400s and an xp2 and i upgraded to a 75. Eventually I got rid of the oscar and turtle due to size and the other fish because I wan't a peacock/hap tank. Anyhow, I know its doable if the fish allow it. 
My main question is how do you maintain the filters? monthly rinse? weekly total wash? what media do you use?


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## dirtydutch4x (Jun 16, 2009)

as for the stocking issues take a look at this tank.....

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## MasRoberts9 (Jun 15, 2009)

here's a pic of one of the earlier set ups. everything lived peacefully together.









these are another set up. different tank mates all lived peacefully.


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## WingChunFist (Jul 2, 2010)

@dirtydutch....awesome vid, thats a lot of Pacu's...and was that a giant Jack Dempsey? nicely done.

@masroberts...i had a lovely tiger oscar just like yours, but she was INCREDIBLY and i do mean that INCREDIBLY violent. i had to get rid of her because she was attacking my turtle, and started attacking anyone who would open the top of the aquarium to feed them...ie my girlfriend...my girl said she would stab it with an icepick if i didnt get it back to the store....gotta love brazilian girls! anyway, its true, a lot of fish elitists act like you cant break the rules of "Fish keeping" and my motto is this...if it works, keep it! youll never know until you experiment. anyway, i use a Hagen Fluval 305 with activated charcoal, biomax, filter mesh, and an active mechanical filter shelving. monthly changes, and monthly 50% water changes with stresscoat water treatment. since the facebook link obviously didnt work so how can i upload pics from my hard disk to the forum thread?


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## dirtydutch4x (Jun 16, 2009)

that was not my tank, the tank belongs to a guy that i met through another forum that pretty much helped me with the mindset of.....The rules of the fish community are not rules, just a general practice, and your right, if it works go with it. I always mix different fish and have been slammed here and on other forums for it, but again, I use the forums for advice and not for the rules of fish keeping. Now dont get me wrong, I dont just go throw fish in a tank and say whatever. I watch my fish and monitor aggression and when I see something is not working I make changes. Everyone told me dont mix angels and convicts, when I did it the end result was no aggression and one of the male angels tried to fertilize the eggs from the con. So again if it works for you great, does not mean it will work for everyone.*pc


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## dirtydutch4x (Jun 16, 2009)

By the way that fish is a Geophagus Jurupari, Eartheater or Demon fish.


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