# Tetra SafeStart and cycle



## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

After reading a few posts on the subject of Tetra Safe Start, I did some online research to determine if this product offers a chance to quickly produce a tank cycle and be therefore safe for fish to be placed in the tank without harm. To be clear let me stress a point… I don’t mean to imply the use of this product as a live fish in the tank cycling, but this product could and has the potential to cycle a tank in perhaps a week or two, and not a month or two.
For those who tend to grab and use a product that reviews favorably let me stress a few points that is important to use this or any product that provides live bacteria…this product does not require refrigeration, but you must avoid use of other products that remove or lock up ammonia…I repeat you must not use a product that will remove ammonia…it will kill the bacteria and render this product useless (it will not work).
Because most of the tap waters these days are treated with Chloramine, and you cannot remove ammonia (remember that we cannot remove the ammonia) a safe product that will break the ammonia chlorine bond is called API Tap-water Conditioner, or any product that contains Sodium Thiosulfate only as a product. The entire function is remove chlorine, and it will break the chloramine bond and remove chlorine but leave behind ammonia. (It removes chlorine and leaves ammonia).
I’m not an advocate of live fish cycling, and always suggest having water storage available in water food safe container or containers. It has come to my thoughts this use of Tetra Safe Start (TSS) could be used with water treated with tap water conditioner (Sodium Thiosulfate) that would remove chlorine, and for those water systems that apply Chloramine it would break the bond and remove chlorine while leaving behind the ammonia of which we must have to cycle our tank.
The new aqarium water cycle is simply to mean it has no bacteria and referred to as aquarium water nitrification, and is meant to imply the development of bacteria to control ammonia nitrogen cycle. And by that I mean to say the objective is to remove ammonia and nitrites, and begin the introduction of nitrates. I read some persons consider their tank cycled within 72 hours with use of TSS and that is just not so…Your goal is zero Ammonia, and zero Nitrite, and we test that for stability by adding more ammonia (small amount in ppm measured) to see how the readings with change. If you bacteria strength is high…it won’t have an impact and quickly fall to zero once again. Then and only then your tank is cycled… and you control nitrates and small ammonia increase with water changes.
It takes time to cycle, for the bacteria must become establish within the aquarium, and in your filter system to stabilize towards both your water conditions and load (fish, waste, and ammonia conditions). Let me try to suggest the bacteria is a colony of a strength that meets existing conditions meaning small load equals small colony, big load big colony…but it always starts small and grows to big, and that takes time…it’s not instantaneous. 
If your load decreases after a big colony was established much of that colony will die off and the colony size will reduce…hence protection against a sudden ammonia spike will not be there. For a small colony to protect the numbers must rise and the colony will quickly produce its size and reduce ammonia cycle to nitrate with zero, zero, for ammonia, and nitrite.
From what I just said about the colony size it should become clear you cannot propagate a large colony of bacteria without the ammonia to feed it…because it grows to supply and demand conditions. And once you have established a tank, you cannot have on hold water that is conditioned with an chlorine, and ammonia remover, or it will kill your bacteria no matter how you established it (by natural cycle, or TSS) Ammonia removers kill beneficial bacteria of this TSS product so states on lable.
But you can have on hold a water storage that has been treated with tap water conditioner only (no chlorine, but leaves ammonia behind), and for the extremes RODI water that has been reconditioned for aquarium use (pure RODI water is not healthy for fish), and contains no chlorine, ammonia, or heavy metals. 
Making a water change with stored water could raise ammonia count if bacteria colony is too small, but not for a high enough, or long enough exposure to become harmful…but still better than strait tap water that may contain chlorine…that will harm your fish and your tank bacteria colony.
How I feel a quick fishless cycle could work is tap water an aquarium including storage water supply, and condition both aquarium and storage water with tap water conditioner to remove chlorine, but leave behind the ammonia. Aquarium use of plants is OK, but I’m describing this with no fish. After a twenty four hour wait I would add the TSS and assure all filtration and air supplies are at full operation. I would not add this to my water storage…why you ask. It would be a waste of money to build bacteria in my storage water that will die off before use (remember supply and demand)…so I leave the ammonia in my water storage. 
After a wait period (depending how impatient I become) I test the aquarium water for ammonia and nitrite count…I’m looking for zero, zero and I’m not going to test for nitrate till those to existing counts are confirmed zero. When I get my zero count I will test my bacteria strength by introducing some ammonia or a condition to promote ammonia and confirm how stable the count remains…still have not tested the aquarium for nitrates. If all returns very quickly to zero, and only zero…I test for Nitrates (saves on test chemicals as well using this technique). Regardless how this takes the tank is not cycled till I can produce repeatable (confirmed) test results of zero, zero, ammonia, and nitrites. 
I will control the nitrates with water change that comes from my storage supply and it has some ammonia present, but as described above it should not produce harmful conditions in my aquarium for any length of time, yet most important is my chlorine will not exist in my water so no harm will come to my now established bacteria colonies or my fish yet to be added but the aquarium whose water will at that point be ready for new fish and they don’t have to be bullet proof type.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

TSS has been a subject on here a few times in the past.

It does not hurt to use it possibly, but whether it helps is one person's opinion while another is saying it is crap. The only use I could possibly "get" is using with fish...if it helps it helps and the fish are better off if it does. If it doesn't...go forward like usual. 

The thing I don't get is people have no problem believing bacteria can starve, but can also believe this bottle is full of "live" bacteria that has been potentially bottled up for months with no type of refrigeration. 

If doing a fishless cycle this is just added cost. Not needed to cycle in a week, 10 days, 2 weeks....I can do that with just a bottle of ammonia - a bottle I had to buy anyway to cycle the tank.

This stuff WILL NOT cycle your tank for you. You will still need fish or another ammonia source. 

IMO, it is just snake oil. You throw it in and the tank cycles in 2wks and you believe it had to be the TSS with no proof. My kid's 75g tank completely cycled in 14 days with fish and no snake oils. There is NO proof this stuff works - only "perceived" results.

Also, ammonia removers DO NOT kill off bacteria colonies. If they did you would see deaths compounded by their use. Prime is an ammonia remover and one of the most widely used water conditioners in the hobby. Even those products that "only" detoxify (more correct because none of them "remove") ammonia don't kill bacteria. Plus, the ammonia is still in the tank as is indicated by your test results. So if it is still present it is still available for bacteria colonization. If it does something to the TSS product...just another reason not to use it.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Jrman, slow down the typing is goes so fast the words just run together, and it's hard to tell if you believe TSS is usefull "if it helps it helps and the fish are better off if it does," or "it is just snake oil" On the TSS bottle (for those who have it since jrman does not) it states use of products that remove ammonia will render their product useless.
That stated in an email from Tetra representative...(of course he favors the product).
Now I don't know how long that TSS would last in the water column so must assume a long time and gave the assumption support by saying cannot use an ammonia remover in the proposed cycle I have created for you to complain about. 
But on the lighter side I won't disagree with all you say and it offers good views for those that may consider the idea to cycle with this "waste of money" method.
I don't offer an opion if the product can contain live bacteria without refrigeration...I'm aware of another such product that has more failed, than successful reviews using live bacteria that requires refrigeration. 
I don't think its applicable to require proof of every statement offered on this site, or no opinions including yours would be worth there salt. On the subject of do a bacteria die off when the food source is gone...yes they do in my opion, now if you offer proof I can chase down and confirm with quailifide persons of degree...I will accept that and never say they die ever again.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I separated my words in small paragraphs just for you. You should try it.

My saying what I said is just my way of saying it is not harmful. Only harmful if you alter the way certain things have to be/should be done, like the removal of chlorine/mines with the use of conditioners - which some have ammonia removing properties, like Prime.

It is definitely a waste of money for a fishless cycle. What do I really need beyond the ammonia source? I can force the cycle in 7-10days. what would I gain with using TSS? False belief that it helped?

Like I said...there is no proof this stuff works. If your tank cycled earlier than expected or fairly fast, does that mean TSS caused that? No. There is a whole lot of pushing the "I believe" button for this product.

Proof? There are many things that don't require proof as they are verifiable through the web and the use in the hobby. This is not one of those things. You'll find just as many saying don't buy it, if not more. Not something like the use of filters, ferts, CO2 etc...these most people would not require proof. I for one don't like putting stuff in my tank - period. Their own website doesn't even show bacteria count differences. Why should anyone believe? It doesn't take proof from you or anyone else saying how great it is, but it would be nice to hear from a place that has the ability to test the water, don't you think?

If you believe bacteria die off without a food source....how then does this bottle have anything alive in it? Especially, if you got it 6mos after it was bottled? and you are right, I have never owned the product. But whether you have or not it is clear that, just like me, you have never used it.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Jr, your correct I have not used the product, mine was just research a what if senerio, and I have already given credit that some things said (how long bacteria can live in the bottle) I agree with, but I'm not a chemist and dare not imply it is not possible to keep a bacteria alive non-refrigerated. If you know a fast cycle method I would like to read about it " I can force the cycle in 7-10days." for I have never heard it said by anyone that a tank can be cycled at such speed unless you have a seeded tank...in that case you are using an existing bacteria and not raw new water as so many start with. I mention proof because you are always shouting proof..."you believe it had to be the TSS with no proof.?" I try to make my possition clear...I don't claim nothing on authority, or with formal education. I have said before and will say again...you seek only faults and find nothing good in what your membership has to offer in opinions...worse yet your a moderator whose opinion we should favor to help us along...I have no doubt of your knowledge...to bad you want to beat us other persons up that don't do it your way *whip* Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You can read about it in the fishless cycle thread. The first of the thread was edited.

I don't seek faults, but do look for misleading, incorrect, or confusing info. Maybe they are the same to you?

I'm sorry, I forgot need to put on kid gloves when I respond to your posts. I responded to the product and attack the product, not you. If you feel offended by what I say.....it was still nothing against you. Stop taking a difference in opinion as fodder to start an argument. I didn't say I thought anything negative of you by starting this thread.

It's just a difference in opinion.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I LOVE WHEN YOU TWO POST TOGETHER!I have nothing to add just want to thank the both of you.


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## jshiloh13 (Dec 12, 2010)

I have to say that I did the fishkess cycle the way that jrman always says, and my tank was fully cycled in 12 days with no seeding. Probably would have went faster but it's fully planted.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Darn it, i just typed an Epistle as to why i'mstaying with Fishless and pressed send but, i hadn';t logged inIread a Forum yesterday discussing this a while ago but will post what i resd later whenmore time.Won't that be thrilling


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I use TSS religiously. As Ben mentioned, it could work, it could be a waste. I do fishless cycling, wait for ammonia, then add TSS. I've never had a cycle last two weeks, but I have had cycles last up to ten days to establish. Using dirty substrate, I've cycled in as little as 5 days.

To the extent of my knowledge, TSS contains free-floating heterotrophic bacteria, which are capable of living in suspended form for periods of time (length unknown). The heterotrophs aren't what end up setting up shop in your filter and substrate, however. Those are autotrophic bacteria, which actually adhere to surfaces (hence why people put ceramic "bio media" in their filters). Autotrophs cannot survive in suspended form.

If you look on the side of the TSS bottle, you'll also see "patent pending". This basically means everything the bottle says it does is unfounded.

I've heard one member on here speak of something called ATM Colony, which is featured on the TV show "Tanked". Haven't used it, haven't heard of anyone using it, but it may be another version of snake oil, as Ben stated, and it may be a legitimate product. Nobody knows as of yet, and even with TSS, nobody knows for sure still.


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