# Treating sick fish-can't find answers to 3 questions...



## scarediecat (Sep 1, 2011)

I’m trying to treat some sick fish and at this point in my research I have three questions. I could use all the advice I can get right now?

I’ve had my 3 - 10 gal. aquariums over the past 3 years and very seldom have problems with them. I also seldom had to do anything except put in a new filter pad monthly and add more water now and then because of evaporation. Now that I have added a 70 gal and a 30 gal I have really been reading up on the proper care, etc. so that I could do the best I could by the fish. But it seems the more I read and learn and the more I “mess” with my tanks (trying to do things the “right” way) the more problems I’m having. In other words, in the past when I kept it simple things went well and now that I have started worrying and fretting over “doing everything right” - all heck has broken loose!!

I now have two tanks of sick fish - ick I believe…I have been doing a lot of research to find out how to treat this problem and protect my fish from any further diseases. Right now I have some questions that I cant find the answers to. They are…

1. Is it ok to treat an aquarium now and then even if you don’t have sick fish - just to try to ward off some disease in the future? For example, can I drop some of those fizzing tablets for ick into the tank one week and then say…two weeks later drop a tablet for fungus in and then on and on?
2. Which of the fish (out of the list of fish I have below) have scales and which don’t? Some of the medicines say, “fish without scales may be more sensitive to this medicine…” If I had to guess, I’d say the shark and maybe the gobe are the only ones without scales???
3. I’m wondering if I passed the ick between tanks with the nets???

30 gallon, brackish water tank - all seem fine in this tank:
2 Plattys
2 Sword fish
2 glass fish
1 Violet gobe
1 Pleco
2 Mollies

Colombian Shark catfish - 10 gal freshwater right now - he was in the 30 gal brackish water tank but was acting so crazy, darting here and there then laying on the bottom of the tank I decided to separate him and put him back into freshwater (that’s what he was in at the fish store). He will stay in quarantine again till I can make sure he is ok though he already seems to look and act a lot better. None of the fish in the 30 gal are sick in any way and I want it to stay that way.

10 gallon, Right now all seems fine in this tank though I lost a potbelly molly within 24 hours after adding her to the tank. Then I lost a platty 2 days after that - (he came from the same major pet storeas the potbelly molly). I separated him and tried to treat for ick (it popped up so fast I couldn‘t believe it)!! YET the other molly, guppy and neons (which have been in this tank for months) were not affected by the ick AT ALL???:
1 molly
1 male guppy
2 neons

6 cichlids - moved to 10 gal until treatment is finished then I will put them back into the 70 gal

3 angel fish - 10 gal for now - after treatment they will go back in with the cichlids. They did fine together in the past.

2 fancy gold fish - 10 gallon for now - all is well with them.

I know this is a lot of reading but I really appreciate the help.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The ich organism is always present, like the common cold in humans. It attacks fish when their resistance is low. Any sudden change, like temperature, ph or hardness, lowers their resistance. Some fish, like Mollies and Scats, seem to be prone to ich for some reason. Here the best treatment is to add salt untile you sp is above 1.02. Scaless fish, like Corys, Loaches and Plecos, don't like this treatment. A stressless treatment for ich is to slowly raise the temperatue to 85F and make daily 10-20% water change until the ich is gone.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Sorry to hear you are having issues and I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

1:Its not advised to treat unless something is wrong.Kinda like you wouldnt give your child cough syrup just because.However if you keep the tank vlean and keep u with maintenance,it will help ward illnesses away.

2:Not sure but I think cats are scaless,and tetras should only get half a dose,as they are sensitive.

3:Very easily can pass ich between tanks with nets.You should use one net per tank,and only use that net for that tank.

What type of pleco are you housing?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You also don't need to add that much salt. 1 teaspoon per 10 gal is all anyone would need to treat ich if you raise the temp to about 82 to 86 for about 10 days. Make sure you add airstones as that high of temp will deplete oxygen out of the water. 

With cories, plecos and catfish those tanks just add 1 teaspoon for every 20 gals.

Even though you moved fish to different tanks the ich will still be present in the other tanks and should be treated as well. If you only have 1 net, fix you up a pan of very hot water with a lot of salt in it to dip your net in between tanks. It will help lower the chances of passing anything to the next tank.

Stress is the underlying cause of ich. It doesn't attack a healthy fish. Poor water conditions, change in temp, change in ph can all cause the stress and the outbreak of ich.

On other notes, when transitioning fish from fresh to brackish you need to slowly acclimate them by putting them in a bucket and use a piece of airline tubing and slowly drip water from tank to bucket. This should be done even with freshwater and a new fish.

One note on the shark, the fish needs at least a 48 inch tank while young. they get to 14+ inches and are a fairly fast grower. The pleco if its a common it can get 2 ft.


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## Pigeonfish (Jun 23, 2011)

If the Columbian Catish is young, it prefers FW. When it gets older, is when it should be moved to a brackish setup and yes they get very big.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello cat...

I think you're right to get back to the basics. The first "line of defense" for a disease in the tank is to raise the temperature in the tank and start an aggressive water change schedule.

I've read a million times that no matter what's wrong with the fish, whether it's real or imagined, increasing the temperature of the water and getting it super clean, will very often help the fish. I'd take this a step further and include a teaspoon of standard aquarium salt to every five gallons of the water change water.

Aquarium salt is one of the best treatments for fish ailments. Aquatic fish come from slightly "brackish" water and can tolerate some salt in the tank water, but most fish pathogens can't.

So, that said, raise the temperature in the tank to 86 degrees over the next 48 hours and add a small power filter or airstone to the tank for added oxygen. 

Change 25 to 30 percent of the tank water every couple of days and be sure to vacuum the gravel. If you have parasites in the tank, most will be living in the gravel.

Fish will tolerate the increased temperature for a week to 10 days. By then you'll have killed the parasites if there are any.

Can't think of anything else at this point. If I remember something important, I'll pass it on.

Keep me posted if you like.

B


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## scarediecat (Sep 1, 2011)

WOW...reading over my very old posts and have learned a lot - should have paid attention and kept on reading. though I did have success with treating most of ick but not all made it of course. I gave the Colombian Shark catfish away when it got too big for my tank and I felt guilty. The angel fish died, they always do for me so not more angel fish. Neons as well - can't keep em alive. Gave away 6 cichlids also. I've cut back A LOT on my fish keeping. Need to keep things simple now days. I still have my Goby!! I sure love that guy...I can watch him all day. But I worry about him constantly...


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

The germs of all fish diseases are present in any water.
Whether a disease develops or not depends on whether the germs find an opportunity to come to proliferation. The fish must be weakened if it is assumed to be host for the disease.
Wrong temperature, oxygen deficiency, inadequate feeding, stress due to unsuitable socialization.
Watching the fish! Just in time to see if they do not feel comfortable. Find and correct the cause.
Also Ichthyo does not always come from the pond lining.


http://www.aquariumforum.com/f5/problem-ichthyophtirius-72658.html


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm gonna cheat and quote myself from past posts. But to summarize... I prefer 86-88 degrees and 1 tsp salt/gallon. Vacuum gravel every day for first 3 days. Continue treatment for 10 days after you last see a white spot.
Added note: Once you kill ich, it is not lurking in your aquarium. That is a myth. It is gone. Will only reappear if you add it to the aquarium via adding something to the aquarium. You may have fish for 3 months before it appears, but it came on those fish and it never showed itself.

And... 

I would think the Heat & salt treatment would work great with discus - no problems keeping them at 86 degrees or even hotter. I usually find the white spots gone in 2-3 days and I run the treatment for another 10 days. I use about 1 - 1 1/2 teaspoons per gallon. As with any medication, be prepared to do a 50% water change at the first sign of heavy breathing or other stress. Otherwise, I change the water/gravel vac every day for the first 5 days. I've used it with corys, clown loaches, other loaches, and other cats as well. Cichlids and tetras you can use a higher concentration of salt, but not really any need to go higher.
And by salt, I mean table salt. With or without iodine doesn't matter. The key is to never let - not even for an hour - the temperature drop below 86 degrees. Not sure why this treatment isn't more popular.

And...


In my experience, heat treatment at 86 and above always works, especially when coupled with 1 1/2 tsp sodium chloride (salt) per gallon. (I use 1 tsp/g for cories, 1 1/4 for loaches) Massive increase in aeration is a must!
When the heat treatment fails, it always seems to be related to a water change; a waterchange that put the temperature below 86 degrees for a short period. This gives a brief period where ich in its killable stage are able to find a host, and start the process again.
If your thermometer is off a degree, you may never even reach 86 degrees.

Note: this is only an explanation for 'stubborn' strains resistant to heat. Resistance to meds is another story I have no experience with, as I only use heat and salt for ich. I can only guess that at some point, the level of meds fell below the lethal level, and enough thermonts (killable stage) were able to find a host and start the process again.

And...

Going to 88 degrees should insure you are at a high enough temperature to kill the ich. Add salt slowly as you are doing. You should see all the ich disappear in 3 or 4 days. Keep it up for another 10 after you see the last white spot. Then start lowering the temperature and taking the salt out though 50% water changes.

As you do water changes through treatment, make sure the water you are adding is OVER 86 degrees - matching 88 would be better. As mentioned earlier, only add salt to water removed via waterchange. So if you take out 20 gallons of water, and you've been keeping 1 teaspoon per gallon salt, add 20 teaspoons to your new water. Evaporation is negligible if you keep the tank covered. 1.005 teaspoons salt per gallon won't make a difference.

And then...

I think it is important to start with one method and finish with it. If you still see white spots after 4 days, your dosage parameters are either off, or you have misdiagnosed.

Most fish come from places where the waters hit the mid 80s for at least a very short period during the year. It might be an excessive heat wave, it might be a shallow part of a lake or stagnate part of the river that stores heat longer than other parts. I have never had a problem with heat treatment on any fish - I think the key is massive aeration. Lower dissolved oxygen levels at higher temperatures.
As for salt, I have used 1 tsp per gallon on corydoras, who seem to have a high distaste for salt. At 1 1/4 tsp per gallon, corydoras start to not look well. My clown loaches do fine at 1 1/2 tsp per gallon. Never a reason to go over 1 1/2 tsp per gallon. Again, massive aeration is key. Acclimate slowly to salt (1/2 tsp per gallon every 8 hours; 1 degree F° every hour) I go to 87° and 1 1/4 tsp salt per gallon in any corydoras free tank.
Maintain heat and salt for 10 days after last seeing ich. Then reverse acclimate back to normal water parameters. If at any time your water drops below 86°, you have to start the clock over. This is where the supposed "super ich" come from. A few lucky tomites manage to hatch and find a host in the hour where your water was 85°.

Never add fish to a sick tank - asking for trouble.

Quarantine tanks can save you tons of money, frustration, and most importantly, the lives of your fish.

Always start with testing your water - Ammonia, Nitrite should be zero.

To those who prefer the chemical route, I am not saying it does not work; I am saying that for ich, I prefer heat and salt because it has always worked for me.




Now let the malachite green/formalin vs heat/salt wars begin!!


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

It is always good when there's another way. I thank you for the detailed description.
It is also good if we share our results.

Earlier we all thought "ICH" always comes from the pond. We have some fodder ponds avoided. But the time in the forum shows me that it also occurs without pond. Where does the infectious? I think about that.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

*Your Tanks*

Hello scare...

You have a lot of work to do, but your situation would improve if you got all the fish into the largest tank to begin their treatment. 

Start a more aggressive water change routine. Work up to the point you're changing half the tank water weekly. This will maintain a steady, waste free water chemistry. Do a good job of vacuuming the bottom material if you can. Get some floating plants into the tank to help filter the water between water changes. Hornwort is likely the best. Anacharis is good too.

Add a bit of standard aquarium salt. A couple of level teaspoons for every 5 gallons of new, treated tap water will suffice. Feed sparingly, but feed a bit of flaked, freeze dried and frozen foods. You can add a bit of minced garlic to the menu. It's vitamin rich and loaded with natural antibiotics.

You can keep this up indefinitely.

Just a suggestion, though. You're the "head water keeper".

B


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Botiadancer said:


> To those who prefer the chemical route, I am not saying it does not work; I am saying that for ich, I prefer heat and salt because it has always worked for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm all against salt!It does NOT naturally occur in far too many of our aquatic friends enviroment.It is an irratant to the skin and for some fish may alter other chemistry in a negative manner.
I don't think the chemicals are good for fish,but know they kill the issue.
Just raising temp to or above 86 will kill ich without salt?Why risk mixing meds (which is not often advised)?
i don't raise temp when I use Kordon rid ich plus .


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## scarediecat (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for all the information...it makes me feel that if I can just get a disciplined routine I should have peace with my fish keeping 

Because my 125gal tank is brackish water (or I am working it up to the proper level of brackish water - it seems the salt level has become way to low)... I have a violet Goby so I can only have fish that can go in brackish water... So, I use Instant Ocean Sea Salt. If salt is used for healing purposes, is sea salt ok to use? At this time I have the guppies in a separate tank - until they prove to be well... so I guess that will be a good test for what works and what doesn't with salt. Now, if I can just get the temperature up.

I have gathered up the information, run it off and posted it onto my wall in my "aqua room"...lol...I seem to have problems with the heaters though...I have two heaters in each tank and still the temperature is always around 75. I have lids on my tanks but no lights. I have a couple of those small (though they say they are for tanks up to 20 gal and I have them in 10gal tanks) heaters that you can't turn the heat up or down - they are just preset I guess. I have no central heat in that room so I have to put a space heater in there and that helps keep the tank temps up some.

Thanks again for all the help...I'll keep everyone updated.


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

Tom, the few times I have had ich, I used heat only. Seemed to kill it off in about ten days. The one time I used salt and heat, it worked about the same, so I agree. Salt is not needed and is an irritant like you said.


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## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

The salt helps stimulate the slime coat, which in turn helps get the parasites off faster/harder to latch on to fish. That is why it is so commonly used for so many things. I have read that the chloride level is what help kills the parasite. Still trying to nail down the exact details on that though.


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## Arthur7 (Feb 22, 2013)

Yes, the salt irritates the mucous membrane, for renewal. The parasite are dropped with.


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## treliantf (Oct 10, 2014)

This is chemo vs. physical therapy. Both worked for me but in the most serious out break, only copper (0.2ppm) has reproducibly give me the quick remedy but it's a pain in the neck to monitor Cu and window is so narrow.
There is no best way. However, there are many better ways to deal with ich.


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## scarediecat (Sep 1, 2011)

My remaining fish seem to be doing very well. I will keep them in their own tank for another month and then add the others back in with them but I will not ever put them back in with the Violet Goby. I am maintaining the temp at 80 degrees. Thanks everyone for your time and input.


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