# Starter Tank



## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

Hello all,

My wife and I are planning on doing our first SW tank. Yesterday we spent about an hour at a LFS yesterday trying to decide how we would proceed. After hours of research and talking with folks from a few different shops we were leaning toward a 120 gal setup until my wife saw a starter tank that they had setup in the back. The tank is about 18 gal and consists of one LR, two clowns, a snail (of some sort), and a shrimp.

My question for you all is this. We have read about the challenges a small tank presents in regards to maintenance. Would a setup such as this be overly time consuming? Or is it simply less margin for error dealing with a smaller body of water. I would love to hear some opinions on this little setup.

Our plan would be to keep this tank for a couple of months and if things go well, and we enjoy it, upgrade to the 120 gal reef tank and move this small setup to my daughters room.

So opinions?


Thanks.


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

Smaller tanks are harder as mistakes are easier and the problem with Saltwater fish is they can punish you harder for these mistakes.

18 gallon is small and the thing is if you get a 120 gallon then most if not all fish can be an option for you size wise, Tangs really need no less than 100 gallon and Puffers also like a bigger tank.

You really need to ask yourself how serious you are going to take the Saltwater fish, if you get fed up easy then why waste money on a 120 gallon if you are serious then teh 18 gallon will be a waste.

With saltwater you need to take into account running and setting up the tank, 120 gallon will need a load of Live Rock, you will need a Protein Skimmer and a Cannister Filter(some will say don't get the cannister filter but I find the Pros out-weigh the cons so I have 1), Fish aren't as cheap you can't go to the pet shop and pick up a few fish for pennies like you can with Freshwater, you will need RO water you can use Tap Water but I wouldn't touch it and nearly all Saltwater Keepers wouldn't either, a common mistake made by new fishkeepers is not to quarntine fish they just throw them in and learn the hard way I myself did this £140 worth of fish dead and had to leave the tank empty for 8 weeks to get rid of Marine Velvet, could have easily been avoided and you will need to buy salt which isn't that big a deal it isn't exactly bank breaking, the startup cost can be a bit high but you don't need to go out and spend loads on Live Rock from day 1, infact any decent fishkeeper will tell you to add everything slowly, it took me months to get my Live Rock built up as I bought a little every week.

But the thing with Saltwater is if you set your tank up properly you can look at getting some of the weirdest and beautiful fish you will find, you can get Snails, Crabs and corals to name but a few, so long as you keep on top and do get sloppy with looking after your tank there isn't that much difference between Freshwater and Saltwater fish keeping after all you will be more a water keeper than fish keeper.

Also with Saltwater you can make your tank a real show stopper, people can spend ages just looking at a Saltwatr Tank, I see my tank as more than just a fish tank it is part or the decor like the wallpaper I saved up for and the leather couch I had to pay up for about 2 years.

You are looking at 120 gallon see if you can get a 90 or 100 gallon a little cheaper and the money you save can go towards other stuff you need for the tank.

I kept Freshwater for ages before moving to Saltwater and I do notice I need to put a little bit more work in and keep my eyes open and check the fish everyday but I couldn't go back to Freshwater.

Getting your tank set-up and running is really rewarding and you get a buzz when folks look at your tank and wish they had it.

I would avoid the 18 gallon and go for the bigger tank, you could even go 55 gallon alough this will rule out some fish for you like Tangs and maybe puffers.

Good Luck on whatever way you go.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, smaller tanks may be a little harder to take care of and you are more restricted on what you can put in it. I personally think that people make it sound a lot harder than it is. Yes, in a larger tank things won't go south as easy, but if you are checking water and doing maintenance when you are suppose to and not over feeding/stocking, there shouldn't be a problem. Plus, a smaller tank doesn't take as long to clean or do a water change. In a 120 gallon tank, if you are doing 10% water changes(which is about normal I believe) that is 12 gallons of water. That is a lot of water to move, and to just have laying around your house. I have a 12 gallon nano cube dx, and I am doing 10% water changes weekly, but that is only 1.2 gallons. I could keep enough saltwater in a five gallon bucket in my closet for a few weeks. It really just depends on what you want. If you want tangs and those sort of fishes, you will need a bigger tank. Do you want to spend all that money for a 120 gallon tank? Live rock runs at about $5-$10 a pound usually, and you are supposed to have a pound per gallon. That is a lot of money. Lighting systems are expensive, protein skimmers are expensive, etc. Also what a lot of people don't take into account is the electricity bill. It can add up to a lot of money. A smaller tank doesn't cost as much to set up or maintain. 

Really the big factors are:
how much do you want/can spend
what do you want to keep
how much time do you have or will want to spend on the tank

I personally like the look of smaller tanks better, but that is just my opinion.
Hopefully I helped!
kaiden


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

Equipment wise you can pick stuff up second hand most fish keepers I know do, I live in the UK but I hear Americans talking about Craiglist a lot, I believe you can buy second hand stuff on it, you may even get your tank there.

As Kaiden said some folks do make it sound a lot harder and as I said there isn't that much difference between Freshwater and Saltwater, you just need to be a bit more Vigilante.

All my Equipment and Tank are second hand, you really save a lot of cash my whole set-up cost just over £200 I think thats about $300 of your American money, Had I bought all new stuff I would have been looking at over £1000, Saltwater fish look so much better than Freshwater and I feel the rewards are better at the end of it.

As for water you can either splash out on an RO Water Machine about £100 UK money will get a good 1, or you can just buy it as you need it from the LFS, ours sell 5 gallons at £3 which is just over $4 American.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah. Some LFS give away free RO water. Mine does, you just have to bring a container of some sort.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

And yes, I agree. Buying things secondhand is good as long as you are sure it is clean or whatever. I got my nano cube 12 dx used and it was 60 bucks. It came with a hydrometer, a bucket, sand, and a bunch of dead/base rock and a heater. That is a really good deal and I just randomly happened to be looking at the classifieds on KSL.com. That might be something good for you to do if you want. Just keep an eye on places you can get used stuff, because a lot of times you can get a good deal.


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## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you for the replies. My wife loved the small tank setup so we bought it yesterday. Setup went well, fish seem happy, and my first feeding was a success. I am actually surprised. I knew we would like having an aquarium but we really enjoyed the tank last night. It was hard to pry ourselves away at times. 

I am getting ready to test the water now and begin the process of becoming a water manager. It does seem like the water changes will be easier on this smaller tank. I guess we will see.

I like the idea of buying used, it seems there is plenty of equipment around for next to nothing (compared to new). It looks like a 120 gal will be coming soon.

Thanks again.


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## mk4gti (Jun 15, 2010)

No tank you bought yesterday should have fish in it right now, u should have about 1 lb of live rock per gallon, so like 15 lbs should be good, live sand if you can get it. But def not any fish in there on day one, i hope that little guy makes it.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

What do you have in the tank? You have to let it cycle for a while before you can put anything in.


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## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

The tank was already established with rock, fish and water. I basically just moved the tank from the store to my house. I checked the water yesterday and nitrates were around 30 so I mixed up some ro water, heated it and changed out one gallon. I also bought some stress eze is that any good?


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

Ohh...okay, that is fine. What kind of fish do you have?


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

to be honest mate I would have bought the Tank and tested the water each day before I put fish in it, moving the rock etc etc from the LFS to your house could have started another cycle, this is not guarnteed but I would have waited a week at the very least, I would prob have waited 2 weeks before looking at fish.

Another thing with Marine fish is don't buy the first 1 you see in the shop, the stock kept in LFS are mostly the same but every now and again they get a hold of a really nice fish you would have preffered.


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## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

Kaiden32 said:


> Ohh...okay, that is fine. What kind of fish do you have?


There is two clowns, a scavenger fish of some sort, and several snails. I checked the water again tonight and nitrates seem high around 50 so I am planning on changing most of the water in the tank. How quickly can I change the water for example if I change 20% in the morning when could I make another change?


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

On the water changes you will get different answers from different people, some say no more than 10%, my Brother-In-Law and his Wife overfed their tank a few weeks back and the nitrates spiked he has a 22 gallon, he went and got 15 gallon of RO water and changed it with that and his Tank and Fish are fine.

You can also get things lime Amquel Plus which reduce the Nitrates if you want to go down that path, I had some rotting food not eaten by the fish in my Tank a few weeks back so I got an Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate spike and it cleared it up for me, some folks are a bit touchy about adding things like this to their tank but it's an option you can look at also.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd say not to do more than 30% at a time, but that's just me. If you post a pic of that scavenger fish we can probably identify it for you.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

verdifer said:


> You can also get things lime Amquel Plus which reduce the Nitrates if you want to go down that path, I had some rotting food not eaten by the fish in my Tank a few weeks back so I got an Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate spike and it cleared it up for me, some folks are a bit touchy about adding things like this to their tank but it's an option you can look at also.


*old dude

Amquel Plus in my opinion is a short term fix, to a long term issue.

I went almost 2 full years without a single water change on my 240g setup. However due to incredibly high nitrates (tank was running on average 100+ppm) I finally decided the harm to my tank was not worth my experiment.

When you are dealing with water issues it is better to find what is causing the issue, then to poor some chemicals in and call it a day. That way you aren't running into the same issue next month


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## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

GetITCdot said:


> *old dude
> 
> Amquel Plus in my opinion is a short term fix, to a long term issue.
> 
> ...


The tank also came with a small coral, yesterday I found a small piece that had broken off (I guess during the move) and was dying in the tank perhaps this was the source of the higher nitrates? I have done two water changes totaling about 60-70% of the total water after the first change nitrates dropped from about 60 down to 30-40 so hopefully I will be nearing 0 now. 

I might have another problem however, last night we noticed the clowns acting strange and after some research it appears they may be mating! They were shivering in the corner one on top of the other which looked very similar to what we saw on the internet. If they in fact are, what do I do next? I imagine clownfish eggs in a 10 gallon tank would be a nightmare.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

roadworn said:


> The tank also came with a small coral, yesterday I found a small piece that had broken off (I guess during the move) and was dying in the tank perhaps this was the source of the higher nitrates? I have done two water changes totaling about 60-70% of the total water after the first change nitrates dropped from about 60 down to 30-40 so hopefully I will be nearing 0 now.
> 
> I might have another problem however, last night we noticed the clowns acting strange and after some research it appears they may be mating! They were shivering in the corner one on top of the other which looked very similar to what we saw on the internet. If they in fact are, what do I do next? I imagine clownfish eggs in a 10 gallon tank would be a nightmare.


Sell the mated pair for a nice profit, or get another tank to raise the fry?


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## roadworn (Dec 1, 2010)

GetITCdot said:


> Sell the mated pair for a nice profit, or get another tank to raise the fry?


 Haha this is a little more than I bargained for less than a week after getting my first tank. The female is definitely full of eggs, do you think a LFS would buy the fry? Or do they normally stick to known distributors?


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## verdifer (Sep 8, 2010)

> Amquel Plus in my opinion is a short term fix, to a long term issue.


He has moved an established tank from the shop to his house, this can cause a Spike so we know what the cause.


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## GetITCdot (Aug 4, 2009)

roadworn said:


> Haha this is a little more than I bargained for less than a week after getting my first tank. The female is definitely full of eggs, do you think a LFS would buy the fry? Or do they normally stick to known distributors?


never hurts to ask. I know my LFS buys from some of it's customers. I sell them coral and I know they buy whatever is a good price for a healthy fish.


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## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd personally try to sell them as a mated pair, because you can get big bucks for that sometimes. And, because most likely if they are mated they will keep making eggs. (sorry, I wasn't sure how to say that)


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