# figure 8 puffer - need advice



## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi,

I just got three small figure 8 puffers (about 1" each) from my LFS. Oddly, the LFS was basically keeping them in freshwater with Aquarium salt (NOT marine mix). They also seemed to have the mistaken notion that these were south American, while everything I've read online says they are south Asian. Mine defniitely have the exact patterning of the figure 8 puffer, so I think it *must* be that species.

Is my understanding correct, that these fish are brackish fish, but when they are young they are OK in freshwater, but as they grow, they do better increasingly brackish water? How soon should I raise salinity? Do I need to get a hygrometer? No experience doing anything brackish so could definitely use some advice here.

How big do these fish get? My LFS said 3" or so...is that accurate? Can i safely do three in a 93 gallon cube (30Wx30Dx24H tank), long term?

Also, can I safely do CO2 injection on brackish plants, and what plants would do best in brackish water? Currently I have pennywort and anacharis. My pH (with CO2 injection) is about 6.4 (my tap is 7.4). I read these puffers prefer pH of something like 7-8ish. Should I add some rocks to raise the pH a little? If so, what kind would be suitable?

If i go brackish on this tank I'll have to rebalance the fish in my tanks -- move all my catfish (synodontis nigriventris and albino BN plecos) out of the 93 gallon...as well as my small electric blue jack dempsey (about 3-3.5").

As far as rebalancing, would it be better to relocate these figure 8 puffers to my 75 gallon (4' long tank') and move my angels and diamond tetras to the 93 gallon cube instead? They would benefit from the additional length, correct? Can a 93 gallon cube safely accommodate 5 FW angels (I'm thinking about moving the single angel from my 30gal cube to the 93 gal cube as well).

Thanks!
-Zeke


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## chenowethpm (Jan 8, 2014)

From what I know about these cool little guys is they are brackish water fish. They are aggressive to their own species, and like aragonite sand for a substrate. With lots of plants and rocks for hiding. Of they are being kept in freshwater you should gradually bring up the salinity to brackish conditions to minimize stress on the fish. 3 in a 93 would probably be enough space. Salinity should be 1.005-1.008. And they are from Asia. I did a bit of research on these guy recently.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

My 93g cube has fluorite substrate. My 75 tank has
pool filter sand. Which would be more suitable?

My LFS said I could add some coral to the tank to bring up the pH a bit. I read that driftwood decomposes faster in brackish water. Probably would want to move that out of there when I go brackish?

Zeke



chenowethpm said:


> From what I know about these cool little guys is they are brackish water fish. They are aggressive to their own species, and like aragonite sand for a substrate. With lots of plants and rocks for hiding. Of they are being kept in freshwater you should gradually bring up the salinity to brackish conditions to minimize stress on the fish. 3 in a 93 would probably be enough space. Salinity should be 1.005-1.008. And they are from Asia. I did a bit of research on these guy recently.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

This article has good info on the figure 8.
Plants are possible but I'm not so sure the co2 is a good idea.Although the pH swing created by co2 is usaully not disturbing to fish, the puffer is one of those fish that really does want a higher pH (in the 8+ range) and co2 will only get you lower no matter whether you have CC(crushed coral) or whatever IMO.
The Puffer Forum ? The Puffer Library » III. The Figure Eight Puffer; Colorful, Comical, Compact Fish
I'd keep them in the 93(just because the 75 seems better for angels.I might change the sub,but would be real careful as the puffer will not tolerate any spikes that may occur "re cycling".
Switching to brackish should be done very slowly IMO (like weeks) as FW and brackish bacterias are different and again NO SPIKES!


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Once I use marine salt to make the tank brackish, won't that contain buffers that will reduce the pH volatility? Will those raise the pH as well? I've read that these puffers like pH around 7.5-8.5. I could certainly ditch the CO2 but was thinking it would be pretty cool to have live plants with the puffers...

Also, once I convert to brackish, would knight gobies be OK tankmates for figure 8 puffers? If so, how many would you recommend?

Thanks,
-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Marine salt will raise your pH.Co2 will still lower your pH.I got my co2 setup with the 120 saltwater set up where it was used a calcium reactor(the co2 is so acid it disolves crushed coral releasing carbonates and raisng calcium.This is why he had a pH controller other wise it would have gotten out of control.
The knight goby I believe is great brackish fish,but can be aggressive towards its own;
Knight goby, Stigmatogobius sadanunidio Profile, with care, maintenance requirements and breeding information for your tropical fish
I always enjoyed mono sebae as one of my favorite brackish fish.
Mono Sebae | Monodactylus sebae | Fish Research List
They can get large.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

That's a pretty neat fish! Time to order a hydrometer and some instant ocean... 

-Zeke



coralbandit said:


> Marine salt will raise your pH.Co2 will still lower your pH.I got my co2 setup with the 120 saltwater set up where it was used a calcium reactor(the co2 is so acid it disolves crushed coral releasing carbonates and raisng calcium.This is why he had a pH controller other wise it would have gotten out of control.
> The knight goby I believe is great brackish fish,but can be aggressive towards its own;
> Knight goby, Stigmatogobius sadanunidio Profile, with care, maintenance requirements and breeding information for your tropical fish
> I always enjoyed mono sebae as one of my favorite brackish fish.
> ...


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Refracrometers are worth the couple extra bucks.All the cheap plastic hydrometers are very innaccurate.I had 3 different plastic hydrometers that all read completelty different and it turned out the oldest one(from the 1980's) was the most accurate.I found this out when I went digital(pricey but so quick and easy).Here's some refractometers;
Salinity Meter | eBay
This is my digital;
http://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Instrum...40591&sr=8-19&keywords=digital+salinity+meter


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

What do you think of this one? it seems to have good reviews. Also, is it generally good enough to calibrate it against distilled water?

-Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Also, are you saying that your new digital one matches your old one from the 1980s? That Hannah unit looks nice but sure isn't cheap. But I guess there's nothing cheap about doing saltwater tanks anyway, and it could be an expensive lesson if the hydrometer is unreliable!

I was thinking about this one...

Amazon.com: Salinity Refractometer, Aquarium & Seawater - Dual Scale (1.0 to 1.070 S.G.) by Agriculture Solutions: Pet Supplies


What type of test kit is best used for slightly brackish water, the API freshwater master test kit?

...Started with freshwater, now working my way up to brackish...I probably will attempt saltwater someday 

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

My old plastic hydrometer was the closest to the hannah. The two newer plastic hydrometers were both "off by a Mile".
The refractometer you linked should work very well.Everyone else I know uses refractometers and has no complaints.To be honest I have never even looked through one so when it came time to get something better than plastic I just figured I couldn't screw up a digital meter!
I think you just calibrate the refractometer with distilled or ro(I use ro to calibrate my digital).
Basic API kit should work but you will need high pH to get accurate reading.I think the color cards are a little different from FW to marine ,but the reagents are the same.If purchased seperately(not master kit) most test come with both cards.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Refractometer Calibration Solution


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

So I'm thinking my ultimate stocking plan for the 93 gallon will be the following:

3 figure 8 puffers (already have)
3 (maybe 4? is that too many for this tank?) mono sebae (will need to get later)
2 knight gobies (will need to get later)

What do you think? Is this likely to work on a 30x30x24 cube? Do LFSes typically keep mono sebae and knight gobies in freshwater and then you gradually raise the salinity as they mature? 

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

Of course, I will need to evacuate my synodontis nigriventris and my albino BN plecos out of there soon...

As far as changing out substrate, could I just do the following:

In advance of this, stop running CO2 injection on the tank, this should leave the pH around 7-7.4.

Temporarily relocate the 3 puffers to a 10gal with existing tank water. Keep a heater on that tank to keep temperature stable (or just heat room up to 78?)

Change my fluorite substrate to aragonite sand (any specific brand recommendations here or is it all basically the same?). Is it a necessary to rinse the aragonite sand off in tap water or can you just use directly right away? I remember cleaning my fluorite being a huge pain that took several hours.

After putting new sand, change water and test water parameters. I'm guessing the pH will go up with the aragonite? How fast does that rise typically occur? Hours?

Acclimate the figure 8 puffers back to the tank with the new substrate

Remove driftwood from tank and replace with coral / rocks or something (recommendations?)

Then start working on adding the Mono Sebae and gobies (if they are being kept in freshwater), otherwise bring up the salinity in the tank gradually (over weeks) and add mono sebae and gobies when salinity is close. I'll also be interested in seeing what brackish plants could work in this type of tank...

Is this a reasonable plan? 

Thanks,
-Zeke


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

zwanged said:


> So I'm thinking my ultimate stocking plan for the 93 gallon will be the following:
> 
> 3 figure 8 puffers (already have)
> 3 (maybe 4? is that too many for this tank?) mono sebae (will need to get later)
> ...


Plan sounds good to me. But I also don't know about CO2 injection or aragonite substrate because Ive never used them. I highly recommend rinsing. If you don't want the tank to be cloudy and risk the chance of having a longer cycle (yes you are guaranteed a cycle if changing substrate) if there are organics in it. Make sure when/if your decide to change everything around after reading below about pH. Just make sure whatever tank you put the puffers in (temporarily or permanently) make sure your dead sure it has fully cycled. These puffers are highly sensitive to ammonia and nitrites. Mini cycles due to bacteria catching up to bio-load is ok. A full cycle or substrate change cycle are not ok. Also note because they are scaless if for some reason you have to treat the take, that you are careful about what you use. Research that more I know copper based stuff is a sure-fire way to kill them.

As far as pH goes unless your real set on having the figure 8 puffer natural habitat pH. My personal experiences have told me unless its a marine saltwater tank where pH among other things are essential. Just drip acclimate the puffers to the pH you "want" (meaning whether or not you choose to use CO2) and keep it stable at that pH. The only things that really matters a majority of the time for FW and brackish (being more similar to FW then to SW) is stability meaning keeping parameter consistent avoiding large swings, they will live happy at either pH you listed. 

Absolutely do NOT do coral,base rock,dry live rock its all the same just different names. All the things I just list are very pours meaning it has a lot of holes nooks and crannies that food, poop and everything else that leads to nitrates will build up and cause you major issues. Might work for a very short time but its a guaranteed receipt for disaster. First algae problems then water having to do very frequent water changes to keep nitrates at a safe level and I wouldn't hesitant in saying having to do daily water changes. Not only that it will at some point turn green or brown from algae and not be very pleasing to the eye. A marine SW tank has "critters" that FW doesn't, that maintain and eat anything that falls into the rock, the reason why it only works in SW. As for aquascape look up what their natural habitat is and base it off of that and set up something thats appealing to you and at the same time make the fish feel at home. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they live in bogs that border the ocean in what Im going to call the "buffer zone" between FW and SW. The reason why its called brackish. Which would mean there are a lot of fallen trees, and exposed route structures that release a lot tannins (which I'm sure you know). I personally would keep the driftwood for that reason, you don't have to go for the bog/tea colored water look.It would help a lot if their skiddish. But again do what is appealing to you whether it be an accurate natural habitat look or less then natural one its up to you. Although I would recommend plenty of hiding spaces in at least 3 different locations they can make their own territory. This will help prevent aggression towards each other as stated by another member before me. Which leads me to the point of puffers are notorious fin nippers. So whatever other fish you decide to put in just pay attention to see if they are being bullied or nipped at. Although if they are a quicker fish you shouldn't have any issues because puffers are quite slow moving. So also watch the current in your tank, its essential to have a strong one so that organic nitrate producing materials can't settle where you can't see or reach. Just make sure you set it up to have some slower flowing areas for the puffers to be able to relax and call home. If you go with any types of rocks just get large smooth ones and stack them so there are open spaces. That prevents a build up of nitrate causing material. Thats just my 2 cents. Also before I forget I would advise against any invertebrates i.e. snails, crabs etc... unless you would like the puffers to have an expensive gourmet meal. Invertabrates are the puffers natural food source. Also how they keep their teeth from over growing. Look into how to take care of of their growing teeth alternatively that would be cheaper then snail and crab shells. 

For the hydrometer, for the time being if you have money tied up in tank set up or else where and can't afford the $25-$35 refractometer that I highly suggest getting (ebay is the perfect place the store up charges minimally $15). Just get a instant ocean hydrometer. Get the specific gravity or more often used term salinity to where it should be (record that reading)using that and go to the LFS and have them test it with a refractometer and record their reading. The refractometer will be the more correct reading. Take the difference and mark on your hydrometer where the true value is. For example I did this while setting up my SW tank having money tied up in other related things. 

I got a dirt cheap instant ocean hydrometer and got the water to 1.025 according to my hydrometer (your salinity will be set for brackish conditions). Went to the LFS had them test it with a refractometer and their reading came back with 1.027. So I went back home knowing my hydrometer was .002 low on the reading. meaning the actual water salinity was .002 higher so I marked 1.023 on my hydrometer. So all I have to do when making a batch of salt water was get my hydrometer to 1.023 to give me an actual water salinity of 1.025. Noting: every hydrometer even ones of the same brand will give a different number showing how inaccurate they are. hope that wasn't awfully confusing! haha Just get your reading then a refractometer reading and adjust your to the refractometer to be put simply.

I think I covered everything in your post and didn't scare you, figure 8 puffers are a very unique and awesome fish to keep. You will absolutely love their personality. After they get settled in, they will begin to realize who feeds and takes care of them you will be amazed and thankful you put in all the extra effort you put into the tank. Don't get discouraged by my post I just was just spewing all the knowledge I learned from hours of research so you don't have to do it yourself. I at one point was going to do a figure 8 puffer tank then was given a SW tank. keep the end result in mind and the best of luck to you!


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Is there any particular type of aragonite sand I will need? I assume I want to avoid the 'live' stuff, as I bet that actually is meant for saltwater not brackish?

Any specific brand recommendations?

Would something like this be good?

Amazon.com: Nature's Ocean Aragonite Sand for Aquarium, 10-Pound: Pet Supplies

Or maybe two bags of this?
Amazon.com: Carib Sea ACS00050 Aragonite Reef Sand for Aquarium, 40-Pound: Pet Supplies


Would 70-80 pounds worth be good (giving me about 2 inches?)

-Zeke


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

zwanged said:


> Is there any particular type of aragonite sand I will need? I assume I want to avoid the 'live' stuff, as I bet that actually is meant for saltwater not brackish?
> 
> Any specific brand recommendations?
> 
> -Zeke


If it's meant for salt it'll say right on the front of the bag. The have "live" substrate for FW idk if they do "live" aragonite. I have never found any benefit to buying anything live for FW. It's not going to help cycle faster. It's just way cleaner. So you can spend the extra money for not having to clean the substrate. Or get the cheaper dry substrate bag that you think is the cleanest and rinse it yourself. I honestly don't know the real difference between live FW substrate and live SW substrate other then the fact that the water inside the bag is matched accordingly. The best thing you could do is to take a little of your old substrate collected still and water and put it in with the new after the new stuff is in the tank. 

I'm cheap, I go to the hard ware store and get 50lb bags of sand for $8. White doesn't have to be rinsed black does. Can't remember the brands off the top of my head.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah , you're probably talking about the black blasting sand (like black diamond). I've used it before. I've also used pool filter sand in the past. It's just silica sand though, won't affect the pH / hardness.

coralbandit recommended aragonite as it will buffer the water and raise the pH and the puffers appear to prefer a more basic pH -- like 8. My tap is 7.2-7.4.

Hmm.. this one looks more visually interesting. Will probably have to rinse the crap out of it!

http://www.amazon.com/Carib-Sea-ACS...399301783&sr=8-2&keywords=aragonite+sand+fiji

-Zeke



woody019 said:


> If it's meant for salt it'll say right on the front of the bag. The have "live" substrate for FW idk if they do "live" aragonite. I have never found any benefit to buying anything live for FW. It's not going to help cycle faster. It's just way cleaner. So you can spend the extra money for not having to clean the substrate. Or get the cheaper bag that you think is the cleanest and rinse it yourself. I honestly don't know the real difference between live FW substrate and live SW substrate other then the fact that the water inside the bag is matched accordingly.
> 
> I'm cheap, I go to the hard ware store and get 50lb bags of sand for $8. White doesn't have to be rinsed black does. Can't remember the brands off the top of my head.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Don't use normal sand, you'll be fighting algae forever, and the glass in it will also cut the bottom bellies of fish, the silicates and glass in there will drive you nuts fighting it.


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

zwanged said:


> Yeah , you're probably talking about the black blasting sand (like black diamond). I've used it before. It's just silica sand though, won't affect the pH / hardness.
> 
> coralbandit recommended aragonite as it will raise the pH and the puffers appear to prefer a more basic pH -- like 8. My tap is 7.2-7.4.
> 
> -Zeke


Yup that's the stuff! And listen to coral bandit he knows his stuff. Just pick the aragonite you want, rinse of necessary and add to the tank. If you found some aragonite that you had to had and salt salt what I don't see why you couldn't use it. Unless someone objects the water inside the bag is SW and then just add fresh water to it and adjust salinity from there. Then match the holding to gradually to the display


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

Reefing Madness said:


> Don't use normal sand, you'll be fighting algae forever, and the glass in it will also cut the bottom bellies of fish, the silicates and glass in there will drive you nuts fighting it.


That about sums it up. It is very messy. Haven't had issues with algae or cutting though. Wouldn't tell anyone else to do it. I've been telling myself I'm gonna change mine for a while.


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

Stuff keep coming to me as I think about it. I would cycle the tank at the desired salinity. If you so it fresh then gradually add salt you run the run of killing beneficial back the can't survive in brackish and cycling again. 

Also after getting the right salinity and and desired water level take a sharpy and mark it on a part of the tank that it won't be noticed that way as water evaporates you don't have to fiddle with measuring anything. Just refill the tank with FW to the line you marked. That will maintain proper salinity

I'm done replying for a while autocorrect on my phone keeps filling in stuff haha


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

The tank is already cycled as fresh, can't I just *very gradually* raise the salinity over many weeks without materially disrupting the beneficial bacteria?

-Zeke



woody019 said:


> Stuff keep coming to me as I think about it. I would cycle the tank at the desired salinity. If you so it fresh then gradually add salt you run the run of killing beneficial back the can't survive in brackish and cycling again.
> 
> Also after getting the right salinity and and desired water level take a sharpy and mark it on a part of the tank that it won't be noticed that way as water evaporates you don't have to fiddle with measuring anything. Just refill the tank with FW to the line you marked. That will maintain proper salinity
> 
> I'm done replying for a while autocorrect on my phone keeps filling in stuff haha


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Ooh. this one looks more interesting...but I think it might be too scratchy for the puffers? I think i'll actually just stick with a smoother aragonite sand.

CaribSea Coralite Bermuda Pink Sand 15 lb

-Zeke


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

zwanged said:


> The tank is already cycled as fresh, can't I just *very gradually* raise the salinity over many weeks without materially disrupting the beneficial bacteria?
> 
> -Zeke


Oh I see what your doing now! I had your steps out of order. Forget my previous comment. In theory you shouldn't but just monitor it that's about all you can do. I have no idea how much to raise it over what amount of period of time.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Ok I've decied to go with something smoother, but which still has some grain variation.

Seachem. Pearl Beach

There's also seachem meridian, which is finer-grained and less varied in size, but I read that it may blow around a bit more. I'll stick with the Pearl Beach I think.

-Zeke


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Rounded up my 32 BN 1" plecos, my electric blue jack dempsey (EBJD), and my 4 upside down catfish tonight. The BN plecos have been relocated to my 75 and 30gal tanks. The upside down catfish and EBJD have gone back to the 180gal.

Once I get the new substrate (probably Wednesday) I will clean all the dust out of it, prepare to put the puffers in a 10gal holding tank, and swap out the substrate. I will keep changing out water until it is reasonably clear, test it, and then acclimate the puffers to the new setup.

After that I will see what the availability of other brackish fish is, see what their current water parameters at the store are (are they usually kept in FW at the LFSes?), and then start raising salinity gradually (0.002 per week). Is that a reasonable rate to raise salinity, or should I do more slowly than that? 

-Zeke


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

You can acclimate puffers to full brackish conditions in 4 hours. Via Drip method.
But that tank isn't going to be cycled, so I hope your not adding them to that DT.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

In case I wasn't clear, the puffers (which were kept in freshwater at the LFS) are already in the 93 gallon tank (which is already fully cycled, and is purely freshwater). I'm just planning to temporarily move them to a holding tank, changing out the substrate (and keep doing water changes until I'm happy with the water quality) and acclimate them back to that tank (which will still be full freshwater, just aragonite substrate instead of fluorite). I will then very gradually start raising salinity over several months so as not to minimize any disruption of the beneficial bacteria. 

It's not clear to me how slowly this conversion from freshwater to brackish should be done, but it probably will be over months. Maybe 0.001 or 0.002 SG increase per month? My understanding is the target SG for these puffers will ultimately be a SG between 1.005 to 1.008. So even at that rate it shouldn't take more than a few months to get to the target brackishness. 

-Zeke



Reefing Madness said:


> You can acclimate puffers to full brackish conditions in 4 hours. Via Drip method.
> But that tank isn't going to be cycled, so I hope your not adding them to that DT.


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Update -- 

Started gradual conversion from basically freshwater on the 93gal tank. Adding 6 tablespoons of salt (Instant Ocean) per day should give me roughly 0.002 SG per week. Once i get up to about 1.005-1.008, (3-4 weeks) I will add Mono Sebae.

-Zeke


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## Homer8 (Jul 29, 2014)

zwanged said:


> Update --
> 
> Started gradual conversion from basically freshwater on the 93gal tank. Adding 6 tablespoons of salt (Instant Ocean) per day should give me roughly 0.002 SG per week. Once i get up to about 1.005-1.008, (3-4 weeks) I will add Mono Sebae.
> 
> -Zeke


You have some time to raise salinty. Raise it by .001 per week. Most people say .002 per week but there is no rush and its better for your beneficial bacteria. Figure 8s arent as aggressive as most puffers but can still be aggressive to there own kind. They will probably do well in a large tank but a longer tank might be better so they can spread out. Also dont add the salt directly to the tank. mix it in the water that you will use for water changes.

When i get a larger tank Im going to get a violet/Dragon goby. your tanks are large and should work well if you need a non aggressive bottom feeder.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

yep they look aggressive but really they are big ol' softies


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm up to about SG 1.007 now and fish seem to be doing fine. The Mono Sebae seem to be pretty mean to each other...

I tried adding some tall plastic plants to break up the line of sight a bit. Hopefully that'll help...

-Zeke


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## Homer8 (Jul 29, 2014)

zwanged said:


> I'm up to about SG 1.007 now and fish seem to be doing fine. The Mono Sebae seem to be pretty mean to each other...
> 
> I tried adding some tall plastic plants to break up the line of sight a bit. Hopefully that'll help...
> 
> -Zeke


Thats great! Do you have any pictures of the tank? I wish I had a large tank. I really want a violet goby and a few f8 puffers


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

Here's some pics and a video. Still waiting for my stupid driftwood to sink...been a few months...

the indonesian tigerfish (Datnoid) also was trying to grab the camera's attention  I think long-term he's going to become a problem in this tank ....but i think it's fine for now...he likes to steal krill from the puffers....

Video:

VID_20140801_124248494_zpsf91b8375.mp4 Video by zwanged | Photobucket














-Zeke




Homer8 said:


> Thats great! Do you have any pictures of the tank? I wish I had a large tank. I really want a violet goby and a few f8 puffers


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm considering moving the datnoid to the 180gal at some point, getting an archerfish, and building a shooting gallery above the 93gal. 

Seems a bit tricky to build on top of a rimless tank though... I would need it to be minimal weight, maybe thin acrylic walls or screen with a light wood frame? How would you build it on a rimless tank? Maybe I could have it just sit on the plastic glass canopy clips? (I got extra clips so maybe it would be fine...)

-Zeke


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

That's a great video!
I was thinking the same thing for your datnoid,he ould probly be fine in the 180.
Building on top of the 93 should be a piece of cake!It doesn't matter that it is frameless.
Just build (out of wood) a frame that matches the exact dimensions of the cube and then add a "keeper" rail(molding) to go on outside of glass and keep the top in place.The glass will be strong enough to hold up most anything you can build.I'll look for pics of when I had a chinese waterdragon over my now 75 g reef.Back then he had the clown knife and polyepterus in the water under him.He lived almost as long as the knife!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Took me forever to figure out how to load this one(oldie but a goodie) ,but here is a sweet set up!

This set up weighs like 30-50lbs!It is all mohagony on outside to match room and was luan on inside.All plants in pic are real.I found that a 5g aquarium fit perfect inside the 75 g and under the top that I built(left side waterline reflection).It formed the land on water section and actually floated even when filled with gravel soil and plants(wet).
This whole "thing" sat on top of tank and the extra boards around the bottom(keepers) kept it from ever moving.Still got it in the "attic of experience".I found white plastic tracks at lowes to fit the 1/4" glass sliding doors.This really was a great set up and like I said the water dragon lived up there for like 7 years!the knife lasted like 10!


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

how did you change the water. and also what type of knife brown. black. clown?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Clown knife .Tank was run on a 30g sump so waterchanges were not a problem.The filter was/is behind the wall.Check my 75g filter tank pics in my photo gallery and you will see that behind the wall is under the stairs to get into my basement.I waste no space!


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

wow you do really waste no space.and i personally think that the clown knife fish is a fish too big like 4 foot long whew thats a big fish i like the brown one they are so cool.but weird question in the picture is that your leg or a pillow?


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## zwanged (Nov 4, 2012)

In case anyone's interested, I've started a new thread for my archerfish shooting gallery build. See link below:

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f48/archer-fish-shooting-gallery-build-82745.html#post524745


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