# High Ph and traces of Ammonia



## Simplestmind (May 30, 2012)

So I just set up my fish tank two days ago. It is a 29 Gallon Marineland with a Penguin 200 Filtration system. There are no fish in it because I want to do a cycle first but I have a couple questions first.

My water is a little cloudy so I went out and bought an API Master Water Tester. I tested the Ph which was at 8.4 and the Ammonia it was at 0.25.

What would cause a brand new tank with no fish in it to have ammonia and such a high Ph?

What should I do to correct this problem or should I just leave it alone for now and let it cycle on its own? *c/p*


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

let it cycle on it's own.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You may have some low levels of ammonia in your tap.

Not sure what you mean by cycle on its own? If you have ammonia in your tap it may cycle on ts own if you keep doing water changes. A tank *cannot* cycle on it's own. Either you have to add fish or another ammonia source...there is nothing that will occur without either.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Let a glass of your tap water sit overnight to settle and then test it to compare to your tank readings.

Some soil substrates leach ammonia, what substrate do you have?

When people talk about 'cycling a tank' they are usually referring to the nitrogen cycle. Fish poo, poo breaks down and makes ammonia, ammonia is eaten by bacteria that make it nitrites, different bacteria turn the nitrites into nitrates. The problem is ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish and in a new tank there is no bacteria to consume them so levels can easily become fatal. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks for bacteria to build up, this is 'the cycle'. Bacteria will not build up unless they have ammonia to consume so the cycle starts when you add fish or some other source of ammonia. A 'fishless cycle' is when you add ammonia to the tank to allow the good bacteria to build up before you add the fish.


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## Simplestmind (May 30, 2012)

So it was suggested to me to get some Seachem Prime to help with the ammonia and what not. Do you know if you run the filtration system while using the prime or do I have to turn it off?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Simplestmind said:


> So it was suggested to me to get some Seachem Prime to help with the ammonia and what not. Do you know if you run the filtration system while using the prime or do I have to turn it off?


NO!!!!!!!!!!

Look .25ppm ammonia with the api liquid test kit is the lowest possible reading and sometimes just a testing error.

Prime locks up ammonia but the api test kit tests both the locked and free ammonia the same. So what happens is test ammonia, add prime, still test for ammonia add more prime and so on. All the while it very could be that the very fist dose locked up the ammonia and the tank was safe for fiwh. Meanwhile the prime itself is poisionous to fish. So with overdoses the prime can kill the fish.

So in a new tank with .25ppm ammonia just let it cycle.

Of course you could add plants and let the plants consume the ammonia, and carbon dioxide while returning oxygen. Which is what I do and forget the chemicals.

my .02


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## Simplestmind (May 30, 2012)

I didn't know adding Prime was such a bad idea...

I went and got a couple of plants (A Bacopa and a Cabomba) hoping that will help. I just hate seeing a cloudy tank, even though there are no fish in it yet.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Simplestmind said:


> So it was suggested to me to get some Seachem Prime to help with the ammonia and what not. Do you know if you run the filtration system while using the prime or do I have to turn it off?


If you haven't been using a dechlor, then yes I would suggest getting some Prime. I would also agree with the above that .25 ammonia is very little to worry about, especially if the tank is cycling. using chemicals during the cycle is not needed or any other time for that matter. Some consider Prime a chemical, but it is a necessity. the other things or issues in your tank....99% are easily controlled by a water change. 

I don't agree with Prime being dangerous to fish. Copper is dangerous to your fish as well, but found in many of the foods we buy. Prime is out of your water in less than 24hrs and although I think it is possible to overdose with Prime, the bottle itself basically says it is safe to overdose. So...if it did kill fish I'm guessing it would have to be more than a single standard sized bottle - which treats 400gal I think.

Prime is one of the most widely used products in the Aquarium world. It is completely safe and worry free.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Also forgot to add....You put Prime in your tank when you add new water. You can either add to the tank before you put in the new water or you can add to the water before you put it in the tank.


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## Simplestmind (May 30, 2012)

Thanks you for all the info!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Simplestmind said:


> I didn't know adding Prime was such a bad idea...
> 
> I went and got a couple of plants (A Bacopa and a Cabomba) hoping that will help. I just hate seeing a cloudy tank, even though there are no fish in it yet.


Bacopa and cabomba will both help. Bacopa can (will) grow out of the water. Had a bunch fill a round clip on reflector once before I found out why the light was lower there.

my .02


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## Simplestmind (May 30, 2012)

The two plants have made an amazing difference in my water! I am very happy to see clear water, I did a water test yesterday and came up with 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. time to start a fishless cycle


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

All of your stem plants should grow out of the water...if you let them. Some just lack the strong stems and will lay over on the surface.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

id just do a fish-in cycle. much easier!


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

zero said:


> id just do a fish-in cycle. much easier!


I don't agree, I think fishless cycles are easier, you can afford to be more relaxed about it because there are no fish to kill. But everyone has their own way of doing stuff. As long as it's not cruel to the fish there is more than one 'right way'


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

snail said:


> I don't agree, I think fishless cycles are easier, you can afford to be more relaxed about it because there are no fish to kill. But everyone has their own way of doing stuff. As long as it's not cruel to the fish there is more than one 'right way'



true true, like i said in another thread i always do it with established media so its easier on the fish. it just seems so many people have problems with the fishless!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think its problems. I think that they're expecting something different when in reality it is the same, minus water changes. Some just dont use the right guidance when conducting it.


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