# need some help for a noob!



## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

ok i have some questions...maybe some prety dumb ones...anyhow. inside my filter unit i have 2 filters one is that blue kind and the other is some kinda corse black material. now the guide that came with the tank says you should change the filter every 2-4 weeks...are they talking about the blue one? they sel them at walmart for pretty cheap. the reason i ask is that i have read that changeing to a new filter will get rid of your bacteria and create a new cycle....but isnt it true that if that filter gets nasty as all get out it will cause messed up water quality? please hlep me understand so my fish can be happy again!


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## aspects (Feb 22, 2009)

might be easier if you start with what kind of filter you have.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

its one of those cheapo walmart top fin deals.


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## ELewandowski (Mar 2, 2009)

Change the filter cartridge, not the black foam.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

thanks! it was due for one and i wanted to make sure i didnt mess anything up.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You don't have to change out the filter like that. Just rinse in the tank water that you remove during water changes. They don't have to be sparkling clean like new, and doing it this way saves you money and saves your bacteria.


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## motoracergabe (Dec 3, 2008)

susankat said:


> You don't have to change out the filter like that. Just rinse in the tank water that you remove during water changes. They don't have to be sparkling clean like new, and doing it this way saves you money and saves your bacteria.


yeah i do that about 3 times before i put a new one.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I do that until they start falling apart. I have some that I am still using that is 5 years old.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

so what is it? change it or no...everywhere i read i see 50%/50% change it and dont change it and talk about losing bacteria...i changed it last night after i got the answer...did i just mess with my cycle? im tired of this tank being jacked up..and my small tank with my fish in it getting worse. can i just get a straight answer?

maybe i will just drain the whole tank and start over....nitrite is of the charts for 3 weeks now


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Look at it this way, everytime you take out the old you are taking out your beneficial bacteria. This is causing the tank to go into a new cycle. 

If you do want to change it out, if there is 2 pads in the filter, just change out one at a time, that way you are at least keeping 1/2 of the bacteria.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

i didnt change both filters just the first one..the more corse black one has not been changed/cleaned in about 5 or 6 weeks when i first messed up. if by changing this filter i just started a new cycle i might as well just kill the fish right now because it wont be long and both tanks will be jacked up so bad they are dead anyways. when the big tank i have first got all out of wack i had no choice but to move the fish to another tank after losing 3 fish in one night. the only other tank i have is a 10 gallon. so i have 4 barbs, and 2 loaches in it..way too many fish in that tank and its starting to get bad even with constant water changes. the big tank is going on 3 or 4 weeks i have hornwort in it, 4 danios that dont seem to mind the nitrite at all, driftwood with some kinda plant in it, and i have done water changes out the wazoo and nitrite has not moved. i dont know what to do and my fish are suffering


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Do you have any amquel +, I would dose the tank with that, it will still show a reading but it will help nutralize (sp) (to early) to where it isn't harmful. Take some of the gravel out of the smaller tank and put it into a nylon stocking and set that under the uptake of the filter. Since the other tank is going bad due to so many fish I would go ahead and put the fish back into the big tank. but make sure the water is at the same temp.
Put the filter off the 10 gal and put on the bigger tank also. Leaving it on there a couple of weeks. Keep doing water changes at least every other day. Do not mess with the filters during this time.

Also what size of tank is the bigger tank?


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

the big is 38 gallons the small is 10 gallons.....i dont have any amquel i will def go buy it.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I would get it today. What kind of loaches and how big are they? If they are clowns they are going to grow to big for that tank, and depending on the size they are now, will give you a lot of waste.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

they are clowns about 2 inches long...i bought them before i knew how large they got. im gonna go get some amquel on the way to work


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

i lost 2 more barbs today...did a water change and added amquel+ wont be long and all will be dead....im about to give up


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Don't give up! We will help all we can, you may loose fish but they can be replaced after everything is straightened up.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

i still have 2 loaches and 4 danios in the 38gal the 2 barbs died while i was at work. at about 2am i noticed my albino barbs gasping for air at the top so i put them back in the 10gal tank with some fresh water. the loaches seem to be fine and danios couldnt care less what you do to the water.


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

do you have well water or city water??

If you have well water and it stays pretty constant you can do some serious water changes to drop the level of the amonia and nitrites. If you have city water you definitely need a declor product to nuetralize the chlorine and or chlorimnes in the city water supply. 

Have you ever thought of just buying a fully cycled sponge filter?? Or if you have any cycled tanks you can just add your filter to that tank and in a couple weeks it will have a nice amount of bio building and with a very low load on it will get you going.

Really there is no reason to have to watch your fish die. 

Are you in florida??


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

carol said:


> do you have well water or city water??
> 
> If you have well water and it stays pretty constant you can do some serious water changes to drop the level of the amonia and nitrites. If you have city water you definitely need a declor product to nuetralize the chlorine and or chlorimnes in the city water supply.
> 
> ...


im on city water and always dechlorinate before adding the water to the tank. i just have this chronic high nitrite level thing going on.....ammonia is zero, nitrates are at zero, and nitrites are sky high. i wish i could help them out some way but nothing i have done has fixed this. im in georgia btw


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

Do you have nitrite in your water supply raw??

If this is just the tank not completing the cycling process the amquel plus will deal with the nitrite. 

But the very best thing is to get a cycled filter and stick it in that tank. (after a big water change with proe treated water) I always have extra's around the house in my other tanks for emergencies. 

That is why I asked about if you were in florida you could come and get one.

You can drop that reading down big time with a very big water change with pre treated water. 

The big water changes themselves if it is with non pretreated water can kill off the cycle all by itself. That is why folks clean their filter material in tank water instead of the tap. It might be part of the problem.

If you don't live in Florida, angelsplus has cycled sponge filters for sale. 

Granted you have shipping and all but anything is better then losing your stock.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Is it that way out of the tap? If so better contact your water company, thats not safe. If its just in the tanks there is something definately in there that we need to eliminate.


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

you declorinate in a separate container and let it work before adding o the tank?? If so and you can do this change 60 to 70% of the water for some relief for the fish. Slow down feeding until you get things under control

Get the amquel plus for now as it will protect the fish from the rest of the nitrite left in the tank.

Do you have a fully cycled filter in the house?? If so after you have changed the water you can use that in your current larger tank to help jumpstart the newer tank filter. I don't know if they all get along together but you can try that.

I can ship you a sponge filter or two but it will cost probaably $9 to ship and you will need a air pump and airline to run the filter. If you run two off the same single line pump then you will need a 2 way split valve to run both off the same line.

I have not had to start cold since my first tank I don't even remember how horrible that is. I feel for you but there are ways to ease your fishs discomfort until you get everything going.


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

another thought closer to home is do you have any fish friends?? Or local breeders?? They might give you some squeezings from their filter and maybe some gravel from one of their tanks to help you get yours going 

I have seen pet stores with bio balls in their tanks to build up bio load on them and then they sell those to help jumpstart the new tanks.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

the water out of the tap has very little chlorine and no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. i always put my water for a water change in a container or in my 10 gallon and treat it and check it for levels and then add it. i have no friends with tanks and the only store i have is petsmart. how long does it take for the tank to cycle? i have done water changes, added plants, driftwood, amquel, prime, and nearly everything else to try and get this under control and all i get is high nitrite over and over again. im not using strips anymore im using an api master test kit


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

It can take anywhere from 2 weeks to a couple of months to cycle a tank. Can take longer to cycle with fish it as you have to do more water changes to it and slows it down.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

damn....i cant keep 4 danios, 2 loaches and 2 barbs ina 10 gallon long enough to get the cycle done. its been 2 or 3 weeks since it first spiked....seems there is no end in site


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

does the 10 gallon have a cycled filter on it?? I am guessing it isn't or you would have mentioned it.

You are almost there, the filter needs to be fed to get it over the hump to nitrate readings. So if you want this to happen naturally you need to feed the filter. Feeder fish with lots of prime or amquel plus to protect the fish from the nitrite. If you don't want the fish in that soup then you can get pure amonia and put a little bit in everyday and let the filter build its cycle. And yes it can take 6 weeks to do it this way. It is not a quick process. But with high nitrite readings you are almost there

The second way is to buy a cycled filter. Instant tank cycle.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

i only used the 10 gallon for water that was gonna go in the 38gal during a water change so no its not cycled...i only put the fish in it after i started losing so many in the 38 gallon. nitrite levels have dropped some as of this morning we are down to ~1.0ppm nitrite.


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## carol (Apr 11, 2009)

you can check your nitrate that is the next reading, as the cycle grows from one level to the other 1st the amonia readings, next is nitrite and when you start getting nitrate readings then the filter has turned the corner.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Sounds like your getting there.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

well...one of the loaches died today....they have been fine this whole time then all of a sudden one died. i have been treating with amquel+ and checking water everyday and levels are going down...my nitrites are at .25ppm and nitrates are up to 5ppm. i really hope i dont lose any more fish...i feel bad for my other loach...they stuck together like glue and now his buddy is gone  maybe this will be cleared up soon


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## comler (Mar 10, 2009)

Loaches are very sensitive to water properties, so it's not surprising you lost one. 

Hang in there. I know it's tough, but it looks like your tank is working it's way through the cycle. 

Keep doing what you're doing.


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## japan4racing (Feb 18, 2009)

finally saw some good news! this morning i did a water change and dosed with amquel+ again...i also removed the hornwort as most of it had died or was starting to die. i just got home from work and tested the water and i have 0ppm of nitrites!!!!!! so now i need to see if its gonna stay that way then i guess i will be looking for advice on how to keep it that way. i want some more live plants got any suggestions? i didnt mind the hornwort but i think i had the wrong lighting for it or something bcuase it all fell apart and died


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