# water changes



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I CHANGE WATER, really.I change my tap into RO/DI with never more than 0, zero,no, none Totall Dissovled Solids(TDS).I change my freshwater tank at 30% (180 gallons= 60 gallons) weekly.I change my fry tanks (40 breeder,30 breeder and 29) at 25% for 40 ,30% for 30 and 29 every other day or at least three times a week(if you want them to grow; you will overfeed and change water all the time).My freshwater fish don't just live or survive, they thrive ,grow, reproduce(and some are 7 or years old{to me}, I have lost fish over time{they will all die}), but in general I have more than I got( way more).It's enjoyable to me and I have been "fishing " since I was in 6 grade(bred bettas(not through adult, but had bubble nest, fry and then{I was 12 years old} and have read and questioned and experimented through sucessful reefkeeping(see saltwater thread{same name"water changes}.The more people ask the more I learn ,I learned "WHAT'S THE BEST CLEANER FISH" just the other day.Thanks to Nav! The best cleaner fish is the fishkeeper. So finally my question I would like to hear EVERYONES response to; HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU CHANGE?Ther is a similiar thread for saltwater so I can here from all keepers. I keep all.


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## joevw007 (Jul 6, 2011)

25% weekly on my 55 gallon. every sunday =D


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

good job!.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I change 60 to 90% weekly on all my tanks, depending on whats in them.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

good job! But you know you do a great job anyways. Thats how success is measured!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

so far 2 out of 17 people who veiwed this thread responded.My thoughts are shame on 15 of you, and don't wonder "Why did ***** happen?"


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## gtrider6 (Jul 7, 2012)

50% every 4 days in my 38 gallon. Trying to get this fish to grow. Feed them every day with a mixture of cichlid pellets, flakes ,and blood worms.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

For Those Of You Who Change Once In A "blue Moon" ,tonight Is Your Night !


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## joevw007 (Jul 6, 2011)

all your posts seem like you drank too much caffeine Coralbandit lol


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I do like coffee and cherry beer,and don't feel sorry for those want more but won't do more to get it.Not the first to say I'm HYPED! I CHANGE WATER! It helps my blood flow!


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

25-30% weekly on most of my many tanks, 40-50% on certain delicate or crowded with young species tanks, plus I drink at least four large cups of dark roasted Costa Rican or Cuban coffee daily, and I've never had a cherry beer (or seen one) in my life.
Sunday mornings are my quiet time to take care of the tanks, while the kids are snoozing. My tanks are in a garage with a floor drain, and I siphon into a large sump outlet hose, and fill with a python while listening to good music and checking on the fish, tank by tank. It's a quick enough process.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Thats enjoying and loving what you do REFINED people!


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## gar1948 (Jan 25, 2012)

I do 30% once a week on my 29 and 26 gal freshwater tanks.


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## whitetiger61 (Aug 2, 2011)

I do 60% every week..sunday when i get up, but are we ever going to get away from this water change thing..just seems like its another extension on a thread i know i have learned to love to hate

Rick


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## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

i rarely ever do normal water changes on my freshwater tanks, but i do siphon water off of my tanks to do water changes for my daphnia. they dont do too well on treated tap water, and they grow much faster if i change their water with water from my planted tanks. the daphnia water gets poured out and my tank water gets replenished with treated tap water. so, when i am raising daphnia, i change about ten percent every other day or so.


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## peterbright (Aug 19, 2012)

20 - 30 % weekly


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

coralbandit said:


> so far 2 out of 17 people who veiwed this thread responded.My thoughts are shame on 15 of you, and don't wonder "Why did ***** happen?"


that's because you went into this big story...should have just asked the ?


I have 2-125g, 75g, 29g, 2-20g tanks. I make about 100g of RODI water weekly to be mixed 50/50 with my water changes. My 75g and above have lots of fish, CO2, dry fert dosing and get at least 75% weekly change. My 29g and below tanks are shrimp only. I do a 50% change about every 2wks but have gone 3-4wks with only topoffs. Just don't see the need to do it so much with shrimp only and as of yet, I don't own any hard to keep shrimp. All 6 tanks are planted, some pretty heavily.


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## DL Lawrence (Jul 31, 2012)

For my newly cycled, populated, and stable 55g, I'm going with 20-25% weekly, based on everything I've read. Subject to change, of course.


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## jbrianchamberlin (Aug 31, 2009)

30% weekly on my 75. I clean the filter every other week.


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## foster (Sep 2, 2012)

50-75% on all my tanks once a week The fish room is easy pretty much automated. The display tanks take a while. If you don't like to change water you shouldn't keep fish.*sh


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## jbrianchamberlin (Aug 31, 2009)

75%? Seems a little high, right? I mean if there is one thing I've learned in this hobby is everyone does it differently, but I thought the rule of thumb was 40%.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

many factors are to be considered in determining how much / how often.Type of fish(plecos , oscars are waste creating fish),number of fish compared to water volume,feeding practices, and finally your own personal parameters(if water is always high in contaminents/ or always well within good keeping standards).Not changing water is basically unacceptable,and most who have more experience change regulary in the 20% -50% a week or every 2 weeks.I'll bet the 75% tank either gets fed alot(fry) or has larger fish with larger appetites therfore creating more waste.To grow fry you need to feed heavily;therefore change water heavily(30% 2 or 3 times a week for my fry tanks).


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## foster (Sep 2, 2012)

jbrianchamberlin said:


> 75%? Seems a little high, right? I mean if there is one thing I've learned in this hobby is everyone does it differently, but I thought the rule of thumb was 40%.


Yes everyone has a WC program. On my display tanks the amount of water changed depends on how long it takes to vaccuum the gravel, and wipe down the inside glass. Usually ends up between 50-75%. The other tanks get at least 50%, except the grow out tanks they get around 75% two to three times a week. Coralbandit was spot on, these tanks are fed heavily


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

50% every 4 days. I'm overstocked waiting for the big tank to be complete!


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## Crazy (Mar 1, 2012)

honestly I do it by nitrate concentration, most of my tanks are stocked low enough that 25-50 percent every 2 weeks or so is enough to ensure the nitrates never reach 40ppm. I have had to do 60 percent or better per week in the past until I got larger tanks though and no negitive effect was ever seen.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> I CHANGE WATER, really.I change my tap into RO/DI with never more than 0, zero,no, none Totall Dissovled Solids(TDS).I change my freshwater tank at 30% (180 gallons= 60 gallons) weekly.I change my fry tanks (40 breeder,30 breeder and 29) at 25% for 40 ,30% for 30 and 29 every other day or at least three times a week(if you want them to grow; you will overfeed and change water all the time).My freshwater fish don't just live or survive, they thrive ,grow, reproduce(and some are 7 or years old{to me}, I have lost fish over time{they will all die}), but in general I have more than I got( way more).It's enjoyable to me and I have been "fishing " since I was in 6 grade(bred bettas(not through adult, but had bubble nest, fry and then{I was 12 years old} and have read and questioned and experimented through sucessful reefkeeping(see saltwater thread{same name"water changes}.The more people ask the more I learn ,I learned "WHAT'S THE BEST CLEANER FISH" just the other day.Thanks to Nav! The best cleaner fish is the fishkeeper. So finally my question I would like to hear EVERYONES response to; HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU CHANGE?Ther is a similiar thread for saltwater so I can here from all keepers. I keep all.


25% weekly on all tanks


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

dalfed; yes.Over stocked needs more than average.
crazy; you got it! 
Every situation is different therefore different applications are required.
ALL; monitor your water and start heavy and work towards just what's neccessary.Doing this in reverse will get you dead fish.Live and learn or read what everyone else has said;many different but acceptable answers.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Anyone who has a fairly heavily stocked tank and doesn't let a nitrate test guide them in the amount could have high nitrates in their tank and never know it.

And no, 75% is not bad. Tanks that get dosed with ferts usually carry higher levels of nutrients than most tanks due to daily dosing. The daily dosing is a necessity with higher light levels and planted tanks. Bad would imply it has a negative affect on your fish....not so.

I do a higher % to cover all bases. I know that if I do a 75-80% that all values of nutrients will be fully reset and not just partially lowered like a 25% change may do. I know no matter how much I fed, waste, etc, that after my 75% my nitrate values will read about 5ppm. But then....I dose nitrates on the day that I do my water change. 50% is the minimum for EI fert dosing, I just go a little further.


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## Abbeysdad (Mar 12, 2012)

The volume and frequency of water changes needs to be relative to the amount of water pollution not handled by the tank bio-eco-system and the filtration/purification. 
Consider for a moment that large commercial aquariums do not do 50% weekly water changes - they do not need to because they have very good filtration/purification systems.
Consider too that we say that fresh water in nature is fresh because it is constantly renewed. If true, all of the polluted water flows to the oceans. After eons of receiving polluted water, the oceans should be cesspools...but they are not. Why? Because of a wide array of beneficial organisms working in concert to convert organic wastes into inert components. What if we could leverage similar biology into our aquariums?

Also, just as we slowly acclimate new fish to our aquarium water chemistry, changing large volumes of water at one time may be very stressful for fish.

A larger well established, well maintained planted tank with a moderate stock level may only require a 20% water change MONTHLY. A smaller unplanted tank with larger, messy fish may require a 25% water change twice a week.
Some grow out tanks with no substrate biology, extra feeding resulting in extra waste and limited filtration may require 25% daily water changes.

It really comes down to good water quality and what we need to do to maintain it. 
With good maintenance, plants, bio-eco-system and filtration/purification, less is more. In some cases, more is less. (e.g. poor maintenance. over crowding, over feeding and even extreme water changes won't help!)

I have high nitrates in my well water so I have to use DI, rain or filtered well water (to remove nitrates) for water changes. *I have been doing 15% weekly water changes* (8 months now) and am exploring advanced bio-eco-system measures to keep nitrates and phosphates lower. This includes deep sand and advanced bio-filtration to encourage development of diverse aerobic and anaerobic bacteria.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

So instead of reading someone others thread,I just read one of mine(this one)!I still change water(alot) and still have all 11 of my (at that time 7year old fish).I've lost some fish(hate to repeat this,but they will all die),but for the most part still enjoy great sucess today.Many claim sucess 1 month,2 months .. but few come back a year or more later to say "OH YEAH".Since there are so many new members I thought they(YOU) would benefit from this thread.Start at the beginning if this is your first read and tell me "how much do you change".
I now have aprox. 800+ gallons and change around 400+ a week(different tanks do get treated differently).
Hope this helps some who are new or question their maintenance.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

jbrianchamberlin said:


> 75%? Seems a little high, right? I mean if there is one thing I've learned in this hobby is everyone does it differently, but I thought the rule of thumb was 40%.


No rule of thumb. What everyone forgets is, the majority of the bacteria needed to keep the system stable is in the filters, not in the water column.


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## L.West (Apr 26, 2013)

I change 50 percent very week on all three of my tanks. If my oscars have a messy eating week I may do their tanks twice some weeks but always once a week.


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## Jaybird5 (Apr 27, 2013)

I really need one of those water changers that stick to a faucet. I never realized how hard it is to change water on a bigger tank! Y'all with 55+ gallons really amaze me, I thought changing a ten gallon was tough! lol And I do 40% of my 10 every week.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

L.West said:


> I change 50 percent very week on all three of my tanks. If my oscars have a messy eating week I may do their tanks twice some weeks but always once a week.[/QUOTE
> We've talked quite a bit and you do have excellent maintenance practice I already know!Thanks Lorie!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow I missed this one awhile back! 

I change mine differently. I do weekly on some but on four of them I have slacked off some. For a reason. These are all heavily planted very lightly stocked, ( as in ten gallons, one fish) but I am simulating a dry season ( two weeks no change, light feeding of all live, just a top off if needed) then start to do partial daily to simulate light rain. Then up some feeding and add fish together in hopes of spawning. 

Everyone else gets weekly 50 to 60 percent. Fry tank gets 50% every other day, to keep waste down and help growth.


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## Irish Rose (Jun 9, 2013)

Never was any good at %
I change 15 gallons weekly in my 36 gallon and 5 gallon weekly in my 15 gallon. I test every Friday and change water every Saturday.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Change 30-50% every three days on all 18 tanks!


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## vreugy (May 1, 2013)

I have a 5 gallon and 2 ten gallons. They get at least a 70% water change every week. At the moment, they are all heavily stocked, so I do the 70% on Friday and 50% on Monday. Just started cycling a 20L. The new fish will go into it when all water tests are good.

Hope you all have a great day


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I do 25-50% WCs on all of my tanks every Sunday


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

I suction and change 3 gallons a week out of my 33 gallon. Every Saturday morning the parrots get clean cages and fish get their water changed. I'm terrible in math, (never inherited that gene) So I hope it's enough water change. I don't use chemicals, just set out 3 gallons of tap water for over 24 hours, I live in the country and our water is not heavily chlorinated.


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## jamnigh (Apr 24, 2013)

I change my water every week or 2 at the very least depending. My 20g tank gets around 25-35% depending on what my tests show the day before. My 10g tank gets a 50-70% wc because its my fry tank (even though its planted I still make sure I keep it as low as I can), and my 5g gets about a 40-50% wc no matter what just because its such a small tank, I know the parameters can change in a heartbeat if I am not careful.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

Jaybird5 said:


> I really need one of those water changers that stick to a faucet. I never realized how hard it is to change water on a bigger tank! Y'all with 55+ gallons really amaze me, I thought changing a ten gallon was tough! lol And I do 40% of my 10 every week.


I can feel your pain. When I had my 55 gallon set up I had a large pleco, large Iridescent Shark and at one time two large Severums. All big poopers! lol, I had to stand on a chair to do water changes.

Now with the 33 gallon, I have 3 angels and 3 ADF and the tank stays cleaner however, I still change the water once a week.


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## Jenniferinfl (May 3, 2013)

I change water in the 40 gallon about every 2-3 days, around 25% lately. I did a few days back to back recently to get nitrates down to below 10 ppm, so now I'm maintaining it below 20 instead of just below 40.

My new tanks are still getting probably about 50% water changes every day because I seeded the tanks and am getting more nitrites than I would like to see. 

Bought a pond pump to save me some effort lugging around buckets of water. Also added a 20 foot piece of tubing to my gravel vac so the water can just run outside instead of hauling buckets. Big time saver!


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

It's simple. And unexpected. If you have to change your water then you must have bad water. If you have bad water then you are doing something wrong.
Get involved in your filter system. With a proper filter system you maintain your tank the same way its done in the rivers, lakes and oceans.
Research how all that happens and then do the same thing in your filter system/aquarium. Nobody changes the water in nature. Work with nature and not against it and your problems will be solved and your tank water will be perfectly balanced.





coralbandit said:


> I CHANGE WATER, really.I change my tap into RO/DI with never more than 0, zero,no, none Totall Dissovled Solids(TDS).I change my freshwater tank at 30% (180 gallons= 60 gallons) weekly.I change my fry tanks (40 breeder,30 breeder and 29) at 25% for 40 ,30% for 30 and 29 every other day or at least three times a week(if you want them to grow; you will overfeed and change water all the time).My freshwater fish don't just live or survive, they thrive ,grow, reproduce(and some are 7 or years old{to me}, I have lost fish over time{they will all die}), but in general I have more than I got( way more).It's enjoyable to me and I have been "fishing " since I was in 6 grade(bred bettas(not through adult, but had bubble nest, fry and then{I was 12 years old} and have read and questioned and experimented through sucessful reefkeeping(see saltwater thread{same name"water changes}.The more people ask the more I learn ,I learned "WHAT'S THE BEST CLEANER FISH" just the other day.Thanks to Nav! The best cleaner fish is the fishkeeper. So finally my question I would like to hear EVERYONES response to; HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU CHANGE?Ther is a similiar thread for saltwater so I can here from all keepers. I keep all.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

RustyShakleford said:


> It's simple. And unexpected. If you have to change your water then you must have bad water. If you have bad water then you are doing something wrong.
> Get involved in your filter system. With a proper filter system you maintain your tank the same way its done in the rivers, lakes and oceans.
> Research how all that happens and then do the same thing in your filter system/aquarium. Nobody changes the water in nature. Work with nature and not against it and your problems will be solved and your tank water will be perfectly balanced.


If I was even "close to new" keeping fish I might think your statement had merit(I DON"T)!
I read your intro and setting up,selling and "studying" does not mean you keep fish.Do you have a fish tank?And if yes you are gonna say you never need to change water and your fish a healthy,growing and reproduce?
Possibly with a three hundred gallon aquarium and 5 small fish the water would NEVER register levels considered undesireable in fishkeeping,but to stock and filter an average aquarium water changes are necessary to maintain optimal levels!
Next your tell me I need carbon!


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> If I was even "close to new" keeping fish I might think your statement had merit(I DON"T)!
> I read your intro and setting up,selling and "studying" does not mean you keep fish.Do you have a fish tank?And if yes you are gonna say you never need to change water and your fish a healthy,growing and reproduce?
> Possibly with a three hundred gallon aquarium and 5 small fish the water would NEVER register levels considered undesireable in fishkeeping,but to stock and filter an average aquarium water changes are necessary to maintain optimal levels!
> Next your tell me I need carbon!


Nuff said.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Now, on the other hand, in which case he did not mention. If you had a sump roughly the same size as your DT, and it was filled with plants and algae, Im pretty sure that and a filter would take care of your water quality issues, and not need water changes. But don't get me wrong here, the sump but be of comparable size to your DT, or it won't be of help.


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

If you find a need to change your water then yes, you are new, or uneducated.

Best I can tell through your miss spelled words, you still have not told me "why" you need to change your water. Why don't you start there.

And no, I do not use carbon or any chemicals in any of my tanks.

I wonder who changes the water in the lakes, rivers, and oceans?
It must be you.

No I don't sell them. I maintain them.




coralbandit said:


> If I was even "close to new" keeping fish I might think your statement had merit(I DON"T)!
> I read your intro and setting up,selling and "studying" does not mean you keep fish.Do you have a fish tank?And if yes you are gonna say you never need to change water and your fish a healthy,growing and reproduce?
> Possibly with a three hundred gallon aquarium and 5 small fish the water would NEVER register levels considered undesireable in fishkeeping,but to stock and filter an average aquarium water changes are necessary to maintain optimal levels!
> Next your tell me I need carbon!


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Here's some reading you probly didn't get in school.It's from fish keepers of all experience levels.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/stagnation-argument-filtration-38866.html?highlight=stagnation
I think I feel bad for your fish?


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

How do you arrive at those figures?
Are you just guessing?
"Pretty sure" is just an opinion.



Reefing Madness said:


> Now, on the other hand, in which case he did not mention. If you had a sump roughly the same size as your DT, and it was filled with plants and algae, Im pretty sure that and a filter would take care of your water quality issues, and not need water changes. But don't get me wrong here, the sump but be of comparable size to your DT, or it won't be of help.


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

Sounds like more opinions to me.

Anyone can find a stagnate body of water. It's how it corrects itself that's important. That's what you need to research.

An opinion from a fool is just a fools opinion.
Trying to find more fools that agree with you will not help you. Nor will it change anything. You will still be doing water changes and fighting your water chemistry.

Do the research yourself. Find out how nature does it. Then create an efficient environment (filter system) that does the same thing. Work with nature and not against it and your tank will be maintenance free.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

A maintenance free tank?
Now I do feel bad for your fish,but there yours so do as you will.
With out an explanation of how it is possible(a working one) sounds like opinion from this side also.A fools opinion ?I can't say,but a foolish opinion I do think.
Tell us about your "system" ,I'm interested.


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

Fish waste, uneaten food, rotting organic material all turns into ammonia.
Ammonia is lighter than water and it floats.

Therefore skimming the surface water from a tank is much more efficient than under gravel filters or other popular methods that do not treat the surface water.
You have to remove the surface water from your tank, treat it, and pump it back in.

A proper filter system houses bacteria that will balance your water perfectly and is composed of two parts.

The first part:
The surface water from the tank must be skimmed off and allowed to "trickle" through a medium which remains wet but not submerged. The bacteria that grows here is called "Nitrosomonas". Nitrosomonas is an oxygen loving bacteria that converts ammonia into nitrites.
Naturally, providing a medium for this bacteria that has great surface area is much more efficient than than a medium that does not. (I have water splashing through stacks of lava rock).
However there are store bought mediums available with great surface area just for this purpose.

Now you have a nitrite factory and you have to get rid of the nitrites.

The second part of the filter:
The second stage of the filter cultivates a bacteria known as "Nitrabacter".
Nitrabacter is a bacteria that eats Nitrites and produces Nitrates.
This bacteria lives submerged under water. You can find it in all aquariums in the bottom gravel of your tank. It is the slimy substance you feel on objects submerged in your aquarium.

You need to provide a good home for this bacteria in the submerged portion of your filter system.
Again, the more surface area the better. Good surface area means smaller filter system.

Now you have a nitrate factory.
This is easily taken care of by introducing plants into your aquarium. Plants and some forms of algae love nitrates and provide oxygen for your fish while removing carbon dioxide from your water.
And no, you do not need a hundred pounds of plants to deal with the nitrates.

This all stays in balance because bacteria will not live where there is no food.
Low ammonia levels mean low nitrites which in turn means low nitrates. When the level goes up so does the bacteria that feeds on it until a balance is reached. It maintains itself.

This type of filter system also oxygenates the water tremendously and provides a healthy environment for your fish which in turn boost their immune system and helps them fight disease.
All you have to do is clean the glass and add water occasionally.

Learning and Building these filter systems is as much fun as the tank itself.





coralbandit said:


> A maintenance free tank?
> Now I do feel bad for your fish,but there yours so do as you will.
> With out an explanation of how it is possible(a working one) sounds like opinion from this side also.A fools opinion ?I can't say,but a foolish opinion I do think.
> Tell us about your "system" ,I'm interested.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

My main DT is 180 gallon with dual mega overflows and my filter is a marineland model 4 sump with a 29 g in series.6 drawers of mechanicals and room for large bio.I keep sponges in my"sump" .I run a mag model 24 all out to return my water.
Thanks for the info,never could have learned that.
How do you remove hormones or other things not directly related to "the nitrogen cycle"?


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

The release of the hormone "cortisol" is usually caused by stress. Stress is responsible for many negative health effects. In addition to having a negative effect on growth, reproduction, and digestion, chronic stress will also lower the ability of the immune system to respond effectively and fully. This lowered immune response is what allows parasites, bacteria, and fungi to infect a stressed fish.

A well balanced filtration system reduces stress in fish and in turn hormone levels.





coralbandit said:


> My main DT is 180 gallon with dual mega overflows and my filter is a marineland model 4 sump with a 29 g in series.6 drawers of mechanicals and room for large bio.I keep sponges in my"sump" .I run a mag model 24 all out to return my water.
> Thanks for the info,never could have learned that.
> How do you remove hormones or other things not directly related to "the nitrogen cycle"?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Well rusty I agree with you for the most part maybe even 99%, my problem is that I do not want one fish per 10 square meters of water like nature has, so yes if I keep one demasoni in my 240 gallon tank I can probably get away with water top offs although I believe even in nature all water eventually runs to the sea and is exchanged with rain!!
I have an overflow on this tank that runs through two levels of Nitrosomonas filtration then into a submerged nitrobacter filter and out to a separate sump filled with plants and my nitrates will rise by 20 ppm per week if no water changes sorry but the proof is in doing not theory thanks.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Sounds book/internet educated with no real world experience.I hope I spell correctly for you.CRACKPOT!I'm chalking this and you up on the bunk list unless you can offer someone something that helps them.
I belive this poster is spam and BSing us(again)!


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

Your the one doing water changes and having problems, not me.







coralbandit said:


> Sounds book/internet educated with no real world experience.I hope I spell correctly for you.CRACKPOT!I'm chalking this and you up on the bunk list unless you can offer someone something that helps them.
> I belive this poster is spam and BSing us(again)!


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

We can have more fish per square meter because we cultivate more bacteria per square meter than natural water sources. That seems simple enough.

If you understand how it works then fix it.
Your the one doing water changes.

You cant have it both ways. Either you understand it and fix it or you do not and change water. Which is it?





dalfed said:


> Well rusty I agree with you for the most part maybe even 99%, my problem is that I do not want one fish per 10 square meters of water like nature has, so yes if I keep one demasoni in my 240 gallon tank I can probably get away with water top offs although I believe even in nature all water eventually runs to the sea and is exchanged with rain!!
> I have an overflow on this tank that runs through two levels of Nitrosomonas filtration then into a submerged nitrobacter filter and out to a separate sump filled with plants and my nitrates will rise by 20 ppm per week if no water changes sorry but the proof is in doing not theory thanks.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I have no problems,except finding room for more tanks as my discus,german rams and angels all spawned in the last 48 hrs.
Lets hear about your tanks?


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

What's the point?
There is no proof of anything I claim to have. Just as there is no proof of anything you claim to have.
If your interested I am running a 150 gal freshwater tank with a huge assortment of everything.





coralbandit said:


> I have no problems,except finding room for more tanks as my discus,german rams and angels all spawned in the last 48 hrs.
> Lets hear about your tanks?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

RustyShakleford said:


> We can have more fish per square meter because we cultivate more bacteria per square meter than natural water sources. That seems simple enough.
> 
> If you understand how it works then fix it.
> Your the one doing water changes.
> ...


Hey just a lowly educated electrician here not a cutting edge marine biologist, these forums are to learn so help me understand please. 
What I am getting is, that because we can give more food and cultivate more bacteria as long as I have more plants then nature I don't need water changes, correct? Right now my sump (for lack of a better word) is a 70 gallon plastic container with the return pump and overgrown with guppy grass. You stated earlier that "Reefing Madness" was incorrect about plant amounts I am wondering how much more would be needed and if I will have to start adding other ferts besides nitrogen or is this all that is needed?


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## RustyShakleford (Jul 13, 2013)

Some plants demand more nitrates than others.
The best bet is to research high nitrate demanding plants that will fit with your system. Some forms of algae also will consume huge amounts of nitrates. If you have a MAJOR nitrate problem you might consider a nitrate filter which is nothing more than an additional shallow sump planted with something like Golden Pothos which eats nitrates at an alarming rate.

Pet shops do sell additional nutrients for plants. However like most chemicals that are sold in pet shops, they are not needed. Your fish supply plenty.

Nothing lowly about being an electrician.
There have been plenty of times when I wish I had your skills.




dalfed said:


> Hey just a lowly educated electrician here not a cutting edge marine biologist, these forums are to learn so help me understand please.
> What I am getting is, that because we can give more food and cultivate more bacteria as long as I have more plants then nature I don't need water changes, correct? Right now my sump (for lack of a better word) is a 70 gallon plastic container with the return pump and overgrown with guppy grass. You stated earlier that "Reefing Madness" was incorrect about plant amounts I am wondering how much more would be needed and if I will have to start adding other ferts besides nitrogen or is this all that is needed?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

RustyShakleford said:


> How do you arrive at those figures?
> Are you just guessing?
> "Pretty sure" is just an opinion.


And yet another Member with to much Crack on the Cornflakes!! No guessing here dude. 20 years of, KNOW HOW! Now if you'd like to debunk anything, I'd be glad to discuss it. But, man, it would be to easy to take you apart with this.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Calling people uneducated because they do water changes more implicates yourself as ignorant and not to mention disrespectful. If you want to continue on this website I would cut out the name calling or just move on.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

RustyShakleford said:


> Some plants demand more nitrates than others.
> The best bet is to research high nitrate demanding plants that will fit with your system. Some forms of algae also will consume huge amounts of nitrates. If you have a MAJOR nitrate problem you might consider a nitrate filter which is nothing more than an additional shallow sump planted with something like Golden Pothos which eats nitrates at an alarming rate.
> 
> Pet shops do sell additional nutrients for plants. However like most chemicals that are sold in pet shops, they are not needed. Your fish supply plenty.
> ...


Best bet is now you can feed the crap outta your fish, and not have to worry about watching how much you put into the tank. the more plants, the more nutrients that they will suck up out of the water column! The more plants the less nutrients!! If you only have a few plants, they are only going to remove so much. Basic math......More plants, more nutrient soak up, less plants, less removed! Feed the heck outta the tank. Instead of guessing, why not give it a shot. Then.....I'll be accepting your APOLOGY!


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## Jaybird5 (Apr 27, 2013)

*run over

*pc


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Jaybird5 said:


> *run over
> 
> *pc


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm with Ben,this thread is a tool for those who need help.If CREATIVE,CREDIBLE SUGGESTIONS can not be offered I appreciate you(Rusty) to start a thread of your own with your ideas and then the members can beat your *** or hail you our saviour.There are many here who don't have the resources ,knowledge(don't mis understand me ),or ability to manage their systems,so unless you can offer good help,and not shoot at everyone who has been here helping others for A LONG TIME get off my thread!


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

*o2 I hope this can get resolved soon... Lets all just change some water and make the fish happier.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The pothos (or this type of filtering) aren't new even to this site.BBradbury has been speaking of it for some time now;
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f45/more-maintenance-free-tank-41101.html
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/water-changes-how-much-how-often-21822.html


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I am presently doing what might be called an experiment on water changes in one of my ten gallon tanks. It has, according to AqAdvisor, a 98% stocking rate.
The tank has not had a water change for 3 weeks. The AqAdvisor suggested a 29% water change each week. I have no ammonia test kit but only some
test strips from a Tetra test strip test kit. If you ever bought one you know they have a separate bottle of strips just for ammonia. That test strip says
that the tank has a .5 ammonia level. But here is the picture of the API test for nitrates which is the second one I took.

It looks a bit odd that it has far less yellow color than the top row color patch on the card. Have no notion what that is about. Kit is less than 2 months old
and gave the color which is at the top of it for the last few tests. Seem to recall the directions saying to shake rigorusly for one minuit before using. Will do that
on next test.
I will continue to allow this tank to go with no water change for at least a couple of months more unless test say it is building up ammonia or nitrates.
Will follow up/w results in 2 more weeks unless test prove other direction needed.
This tank is fairly well covered/w Giant Duckweed which my research into nitrate eating plants suggest is far better than most other plants for this as
it consumes nitrates(in tests) at the same time it consumes ammonia, unlike most other plants that go for the ammonia first and only after it is gone
do they go after the nitrates. 
One other thing is relevant...I'm also one of the nut jobs who cultivate hair algae. Quite a bit in this tank...also said to consume ammonia/nitrates.
Three weeks is hardly enough time to draw conclusions but it shows promise. Suggest you read some or all of this thread.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/lowest-cost-easiest-way-eliminate-green-34262.html
It seems as though it may not be necessary to have one of these "algae scrapers" in order to do the same thing if you choose to allow the hair algae
to exist in your tank. We'll see what my test results achieve.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Ya you got to shake bottles for 1 minute.Some have said using the test solutions without shaking can leave the solutions with inaccurate amounts of what is in them to get further accurate test!
And algae and high nitrient uptake plants are great!


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks coralbandit...ned to go back and "play it again Sam" as it is dangerous to not get the test correct. I may have an issue and not realize it this way.
Thanks once again and I'll post a picture after shaking it.


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## Ty (Jun 21, 2013)

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f45/more-maintenance-free-tank-41101.html

I just read the first post and WOW, that's a lot of plants. If it requires that many plants for a 38 gallon aquarium to be "maintenance free,"....sign me up for water changes!!


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Raymond S. said:


> Thanks coralbandit...ned to go back and "play it again Sam" as it is dangerous to not get the test correct. I may have an issue and not realize it this way.
> Thanks once again and I'll post a picture after shaking it.


Ray you should also keep an eye on your carbonate hardness the nitrogen cycle naturally uses up carbonates and if this level gets too low you could get a ph crash. Tried a similar experiment and had to stop it for this reason not high nitrates. keep us posted on how yours goes.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I shook the bottle for 70 seconds and the results were the same...not a slight yellow but no color...clear water...strange but tried it/w the Tetra
test strips just to see and it shows about 10 ppm on nitrates. 0 on nitrites. The paper which comes/w that test kit also has a light yellow for
zero nitrates and a light pink for 20 ppm...the test strip had a lighter pink than the first pink so half way between zero and 20 ppm roughly.
Starting to wonder if there may be something wrong/w my API test kit.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Raymond S. said:


> I shook the bottle for 70 seconds and the results were the same...not a slight yellow but no color...clear water...strange but tried it/w the Tetra
> test strips just to see and it shows about 10 ppm on nitrates. 0 on nitrites. The paper which comes/w that test kit also has a light yellow for
> zero nitrates and a light pink for 20 ppm...the test strip had a lighter pink than the first pink so half way between zero and 20 ppm roughly.
> Starting to wonder if there may be something wrong/w my API test kit.


You may very well be using the nitrates up with your plants and algae.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The reagents may now be out of whack from not shaking.Have you tried the test on a different source?


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## choutman (Mar 6, 2012)

I have 8 tanks I do a 60% water change on each of them every Saturday....I look forward to that day and my fry tanks I do daily water changes after work...I really feel like my success with breeding and keeping fish and rarely losing them is directly related to many large water changes...I break down each tank every week and vacuum them like crazy but I enjoy cleaning my tanks...im a freak lol


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks dalfed I don't have the master API kit but the Tetra strip kit said 150 on the Gh and 180 on the Kh. Might not hurt to put a 1/4 teaspoonful 
of baking soda in the filter. Glad you mentioned that as I would likely have gone past where it hurt before realizing the problem without your saying
something about it. My local Ph is high...don't have the high range test but on the regular range test card it shows a darker blue than the highest
level(7.6) on that test kit so like anywhere between 7.8 and 8.2 which I bring down to aprx 7.2-7.4 by adding 32 oz of distilled to the 2 gallons of tap
on each water change(ten gallon tank).
Will wait a while for possible replies to that 1/4 teaspoonful thing before I do it.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

Should I test it on tap water coralbandit ?


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Raymond S. said:


> Thanks dalfed I don't have the master API kit but the Tetra strip kit said 150 on the Gh and 180 on the Kh. Might not hurt to put a 1/4 teaspoonful
> of baking soda in the filter. Glad you mentioned that as I would likely have gone past where it hurt before realizing the problem without your saying
> something about it. My local Ph is high...don't have the high range test but on the regular range test card it shows a darker blue than the highest
> level(7.6) on that test kit so like anywhere between 7.8 and 8.2 which I bring down to aprx 7.2-7.4 by adding 32 oz of distilled to the 2 gallons of tap
> ...


This is exactly my point on the idea of a maintenance free or self efficient aquarium. I believe it is attainable sort of as long as your plants don't die off the algae doesn't get too high the carbonate level can be maintained the pheromones (growth stunting and sexual inhibiter) can be overwhelmed and no outside fish with disease are ever introduced, because if you have to medicate which will alter the chemistry on such an unstable little slice of nature what then. Worrying about levels of baking soda to add and confusing the pheromone signals (only way I have read is to have an overabundance of signal producers eg. lots of different fish plant and algae) are you not getting to the point where this maintenance is more then water changes lol. Just a though sorry for rambling.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I kinda got a hint of ole Beasl teachings in this thread for a few. 

I wonder how my 55 would be rated with the filter and such. I have a filter rated for 90 gallons, and have one B. Macrostoma and two BN plecs in there. Its planted very well and I still need to do the changes. Has been set up for over a year.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> I kinda got a hint of ole Beasl teachings in this thread for a few.


LOL, same thought I had for a sec, but he was never disrespectful to someone that I remember.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

jrman83 said:


> LOL, same thought I had for a sec, but he was never disrespectful to someone that I remember.


Kind of miss the ol back and forth with you and beasel lol


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

dalfed said:


> Kind of miss the ol back and forth with you and beasel lol


LOL, me too....sort of.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> LOL, me too....sort of.


We could always find his email and invite him back if ya miss him? 

And also this: *old dude*old dude*old dude

*r2


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

I've got him on 2 of my other Sites. Just say the word. He still posts his crazy water work stuff.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

No thanks don't want to go through that again. Took too long to get him banned.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'd like to say that much of what really takes place in the aquarium(each individuals) and how they deal with it is opinion/fact.The percentage of which will vary in each individual set up.
The notion and outright statement to anyone who keeps fish that if you change water you must be doing something wrong is 100% BS.
Many change water due to issues/or mistakes,but the overwhelming majority of SUCESSFUL fish keepers and breeders will swear by(not at ) their water change schedule.
I wanted to ask if it was bseal on my first post back,but thought it might be lost.
We all know better,and I know we do,and I'll let alot of stuff go,but to say things or mislead people who don't have the time and experience(what they come here for),I will not let that go.
I'm not doing it wrong so I am confident in advice and opinions I share and if 
someone wants to argue about it,I'm sorry but I will.
There are so many more reasons beside the nitrogen cycle to change water!


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

I've actually wondered what are the other reasons besides removing nitrates to change water there has to be something more to it. Water gets stale like most everything can. Does offering fish fresh water benefit them and far as natural breeding cycles? Or help with metabolism? 

One thing I love about this hobby is always learning something new.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I have learned that giving them fresh water does induce spawning in many species. Also with raising fry, they will give off a hormone that stunts their siblings so doing changes will help your fry grow at a faster rate.


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## foster (Sep 2, 2012)

That lad needs to learn the difference between infinite, and finite when comparing aquariums to lakes, and oceans.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Water Changes


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

So besides fry, will changing water help with growth in a larger fish. I can understand growth being effected by hormones but does fresh water for an adult fish help with the way they digest foods. 

Reptiles for instance lizards especially need UVB rays constantly. These bulbs need to be changed even if their still emitting light they have lost their beneficial ray. These UVB rays help the reptile with damn near everything that keeps them healthy and active. the promote color, spawning, and the proper metabolism of minerals and vitamins. Without this ray for example calcium will not be completely used by the lizard and will more so just pass right thru its body which in turn can cause disease. The UVB is what is the clean water for fish if you will.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Clean/fresh water will promote growth,disease immunity and is all around like fresh air for us.Possibly even helping with mental health,as less stress makes happier fish.Old water is said to "hold" less oxygen,and probly many other things besides trace elements.
It sounds very similiar to how the uvb has its effect.
It really is necessary regardless of parameters at some point.


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## Nave (May 28, 2013)

I knew there was more to it. If removing the nitrate was the only reason to change water then a heavily planted tank probably could support itself but there's way more to it and in some case more important then just removing nitrates. If dude doesn't want to change water then let him shorten the life of his fish, I think a lot of it comes down to laziness and not wanting to work to achieve something rewarding. I bet those people don't change the oil in their cars either and then ask what's that noise? As the motor detonates.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Water changing really is a choice. If it works for you to not do them, then don't. If you think you need them, then do. 

But, to come here and say the only reason I or anyone else changes water is because something is wrong with the water is completely ignorant of what the overwhelming practice of nearly the entire fishkeeping community. The non-change crowd is very, very small by comparison. That doesn't make it right or wrong I know, but it does show that the practice has at least as much merit as any other that has worked for someone over time.

This hobby really comes down to finding what works for you.


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## evanb (Jul 10, 2013)

5.5 Gallon(Empty{Getting 3 new Endler's and 5 Ghost Shrimp tommorrow [QT]}): 40% Every Sunday
5.5 Gallon(2 Male Cobra Endler's): 40% Every Sunday
29 Gallon (One Comet Goldfish): 20% Every Sunday


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## lonedove55 (Jan 25, 2012)

RustyShakleford said:


> If you find a need to change your water then yes, you are new, or uneducated.
> 
> Best I can tell through your miss spelled words, you still have not told me "why" you need to change your water. Why don't you start there.
> 
> ...


I don't think Coralbandit, Reefing Madness or any of the other posters are _new or uneducated_. They've been keeping tanks successfully for years.

Who changes water in oceans, rivers and lakes? It's called rain my friend...it's called rain.

Oh, and I change 50% or more water on all my tanks weekly...I won't live in a cesspool and I don't expect my fish to live in one either.


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> Water changing really is a choice. If it works for you to not do them, then don't. If you think you need them, then do.
> 
> But, to come here and say the only reason I or anyone else changes water is because something is wrong with the water is completely ignorant of what the overwhelming practice of nearly the entire fishkeeping community. The non-change crowd is very, very small by comparison. That doesn't make it right or wrong I know, but it does show that the practice has at least as much merit as any other that has worked for someone over time.
> 
> This hobby really comes down to finding what works for you.


Thanks for saying what works for you. I really got jumped on about how I "cycle" my tanks and not testing for nitrites and nitrates. I've been keeping fish for over twenty years and have never had any problems. It works for me so...............


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## StevenT (Jun 11, 2013)

50% bi-weekly lately. The fish really like the clean water.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I never really understood why people won't do water changes. They will kick and scream, trying to find any excuse not to do water changes. You should not expect to be able to keep a live animal that does not require any type of care at all. Though yes, they are just fish, they are still living, breathing organisms. Doing maintenance on the tank is just part of the hobby. I personally enjoy it.... it relieves stress and gives me something else to do once a week. 
People have been keeping fish for a long time, though our methods might not be perfect, you can NOT expect to have a perfect eco-system in a glass box that would normally be there out in the wild. There is nothing natural about keeping fish in a box of glass/acrylic, and you can't expect to keep happy, healthy fish for long if you don't want to take proper care of them.


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## Avraptorhal (Jan 24, 2013)

29 gal - 8gal weekly. 5.5 gal 2 gals weekly. Mostly Sat.*old dude


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## snowghost45 (May 13, 2013)

I change 3-4 gallons a week in my 33 gallon. I've really never heard of anyone not ever changing water. I didn't think it was possible for the fish to survive with out water changes.:fish-in-bowl:


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Fish will survive in stagnant pools but fish don't thrive in them. Same as with aquariums. There are those that don't do water changes and are basically the same as a stagnant pond. Oceans, ponds, lakes and rivers all will have a constant water change whether its by rain or water movement. Some more than others. Ponds don't get changed out unless there is heavy rains but still get changed out periodically.


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## HiTekHoney (Jul 12, 2013)

WOW... I must say I enjoyed reading this one LOL ok, for those of you who know MY situation, the only way I was able to "save" my fish was to do 50% weekly water changes and sometimes, depending on amount food, another 50% water change in a few days. I've said it before and will say it again:

FRESHWATER FISH LOVE FRESH WATER

Now granted that lakes and such do not receive water changes, (rain of course) there is also I believe a lot less fish load on those lakes plus all the plants that help suck up all other nutrients. I agree with some posters that the amount of water changes really depends on bioload, plants, etc. Bottom line, the results of your test kits. The end result? WATER CHANGE! 

Now, calling someone uneducated and foolish is not only unprofessional but a no brainer, unethincal in a forum that has been designed to assist people to GAIN knowledge PLUS nowhere did I read about their own personal experience, how would what they say be credible? Kinda like saying something in the lines of how kids are and this is what you should do - do you have kids? NO. So... that makes no sense. There is however that notion of THEORETICAL applications. But I love the post of someone who said that fish in a box have special needs. Now, if one is able to provide and mimic nature exactly IN A BOX, good for you. But I have yet to see this happen with my personal monstrosity of a bioload!

Not changing water in your tank is like having a dog and not talking it out for walks.

I can attest that water changes have absolutely no ill effects on fish. I joined this forum in hopes of learning new things AND to help others - to the best of MY personal EXPERIENCE and not just from books. More minds put together, more experience put together make an excellent tool in order to make proper decisions in creating aquariums, maintaining, diagnosing and medicating fish.

The wonder of freedom of choice is that one does not need to be dictated by what society says, but rather a compilation of experiences and results which will lead to better choices. Insisting on a singular process/procedure is just opinion - not fact. There is no one rule. And it is for this reason forums like this exist.

After all, we do only live in the same planet.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Although I seemed rather intolerant of Rustys' post/info,my filter for my 180 is in my basement ,so I have space and the oppurtunity to try out the phothos myself.I plan on building a simple on top of my filter box(like nav. and HT honey,have done)and posting my results.On average my 180 has 40ppm nitrates as it is overstocked(according to AQ advisor{212% with still ample filtration}) on a weekly test.I change water in this tank weekly or more often.
I'll say regardless of water quality(the way I keep it) that discus,angels .rams and kribensis have all bred in this tank(overstocked).None of the fry survive,mostly not even the eggs,but nature wants to survive and will attempt whenever and however it can.
So tomorrow (hopefully) when I get my supplies and s*** together I will post a new thread on the phothos.
HTHoney I read your almost overnight results and am impressed,But I'm comming up on 1 year on this forum and my post will be long term(meaning that I will update down the road as how this works).
The skeptic in me wants to say that such a large nitrate uptake is much like thinking all LFS take good care of their fish,I wonder how greenhouses take care of their plants.They will survive on water regardless of their needs,so possibly all plants are starved before given good care.This all means I wonder if given my supply of nitrates HOW LONG WILL THESE PLANTS FUNCTION IN A BENEFICIAL WAY? 
That will be what I hope to share in a new thread.
Hey thanks everyone(even you Rusty{if you ever come back?}).


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## HiTekHoney (Jul 12, 2013)

I had the same questions as you. Even the same readings as you in ntrates. 40! LOL Skeptical. Yes, I think the plants were most likely "starved" (I'm assuming walmart wants to keep them small) and immediately soaked what they could. I also made sure to get the largest pothos plant I could find within my budget. Hence I am happy that my nitrate reading has been stable at 10 for days now. Which NEVER used to happen. Now, as a reminder, I am using this tool (pothos) to simply HELP with nitrate readings. I still intend to do water changes regularly, just not as often. Say maybe 1 every 2 weeks rather than 50% weekly. Research has shown me that pothos plants can grow to about 40' in the wild. Regular pruning seems to have made them even grow faster - this according to other garden sites. My assumption and common sense tells me that the more the plant grows, the more nutrients they will need. Which I also mentioned in my issue, I will even attempt to add other types of water plants and see how this will affect my water readings. Such as bamboo plants and the like. Again, another reason why I made my OHF water planter quite large, was to accomodate more plants and hopefully journal my readings/results. This includes how rapid and large the plants will become vs ones in regular pots.

Suggestions for fry. The success I have had in the past in caring for fry is that parents and fry need places to hide. Discus in particular, (someone please correct me here, I have a feeling I got the wrong fish), have a unique relationship with their fry. The fry when new actually eat some slime from the parents, and parents in turn help protect the young. So I guess I can safely say that adding some more hidding places for both would most likely increase your chances of fry survival.


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## HiTekHoney (Jul 12, 2013)

On an added note, I thought this would be.... For lack of a better term, educational in terms of what we are all trying to achieve. Since I live in San Diego, I am familiar with this company and a little dumbfounded by my own stupidity. Hahaha they also run a non-profit foundation wherein they use this cycle called AQUAPONICS and hopefully somehow end world hunger in places/countries with little to no water. Literally a farm on top of your tank! I think it's worth reading and for Coralbandit, maybe this will help understand what I am also trying to achieve here. I was convinced after reading and watching videos pertaining to this subject. I hope this will be a nice contribution to this community/forum? Maybe even possibly have a section of its own? But I'll leave that to the administrators. Let me know?

https://www.ecolifefoundation.org/programs/san-diego-village-aquaponics/eco-cycle-aquaponics-kit/


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