# New 150 gallon need any and all advice!!!



## user43007

Hey whats up? Im new to this forum, 2 weeks now. I posted on the freshwater forum cause I had planned on going fw. I wanna use what i have here to make this a saltwater tank. Someone already told me I need about 100 ponds of live rock and a couple inches of sand. He also said I need some quality lights. My main problem is still setting up what I have. I have a Little Giant external pump, not a sump pump its external. It is the only thing not pictured. But I have no idea how to hook up everyything or where it all goes. So hit me up everyone even if its just to throw your 2 cents in. I plan on making this an awesome tank. Its going to take me some time though cause Im probably going to keep it as cheap as possible. You know, dry rock is a lot cheaper than live rock. And I want to keep posting my progress with pictures if anyone cares to see how it comes out. So reply if you have anything to say at all about the tank, fish, setting it up, lighting ect. Thanks!!!



BACK OF THE HOLES ON THE INSIDE TOWARDS THE BOTTOM


ALL THE PIPES AND FITTINGS THAT IT CAME WITH


TWO HOLES ON THE INSIDE CENTER OF TANK TOWARDS BOTTOM


HOLE IN BOTTOM OF INTERNAL OVERFLOW BOX


HOLE ON THE INSIDE BACK OF UPPER RIGHT CORNER


TOP VIEW OF FILTER


INTERNAL OVERFLOW BOX


SIDE VIEW OF FILTER


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## phys

Hi, so just for your knowledge (if you dont know already) the good part of live rock is it contains bacteria and some life already on the rock. It speeds up establishment and gives you some life to get started. Those holes on the back bottom and top are probably where you pump out (bottom) and pump in (top) the water from the sump. Does that help at all? 
A lot of people will tell you tons of ways to get lighting on your tank. It seems you should go with a lot! lol. I'm workin on some LED lighting for a 20 gallon so as soon as i figure out if it works, i may be able to help you by simply multiplying it by 5.. haha.. yours is probably deeper so you'll need more than I.


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## user43007

Yea Man Like I Said, Everything Helps Thanks. From What I Understand, The More Live Rock And The Amount Of Benneficial Living Organisms In It The Less Mechanical Filtration Needed. Im Assuming Thats Why The Filter I Have Is Somewhat Small. Thanks Again And If Your Taking The Time To Read My Posts Please Leave A Reply Even If Its To Say Whats Up


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## phys

it looks like you have a lot of hard water on that tank... any plans on gettin it off? may be a big job tho but a nice clean tank will make things look so much better.. I had to use about a quart of vinegar on my 55 gallon and a lot of elbow grease. A lot of people dont suggest using anything stronger that that but some of that "green" toilet bowl cleaner works well too. but be sure to rinse it about 20 times after while rubbing the glass off and let it dry well then rinse it again to be sure, if you do use anything but vinegar on it. Hope that tank works out well for you! i'd love to have the room for something so large!


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## user43007

yea buddy im about to go clean it now. some hot water and vinegar in a spray bottle. hope it works out. what i cant get over is how i have 90 views and only 2 replies. that is ridiculous. i joined this forum cause i thought it would be helpful, you know filled with friendly people with the same interests, willing to throw some info my way. clearly i was wrong. where i do appreciate the help i have gotten, why look and not even say anything??? guess i pickes the wrong forum to join.


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## phys

if it doesnt come off easily, see if you can get it to soak somehow.. but it came off mine fairly easily until i got to the thick stuff, you'll prolly have to scrape. As for the people here, i think sometimes they dont respond if they dont have any advice or interest. but i dont know. Have you figured out how the pumps hook up yet? if you haven't, get a wider pic if you can and a pic of the pumps and i can see if i can help any more.


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## automatic-hydromatic

I have no idea what you've got there. Were it me, I'd cap the holes and forget about them.


But just because no one has an advice or helpful info on the subject does not mean you need to create thread after thread on the same subject expecting to hear something different, and then go on a rant about it on another post... you know what I'm talking about...


Be patient. It's an online forum. Sometimes you'll just have questions that no one will know the answer to.


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## user43007

i actually just finished cleaning it and it all came off fairly easy. im going to get some mmore piccs up tomorrow thanks. yea hydromatic your absolutely right about my posting and my ranting. it is just very frustrating seeing how many people look and say nothing not even a haha or i dunno or hey whats up? i started last week with the multiple posts but the reason was mainly cause i thought i posted in the wrong spot. and cause i was aiming towarda african freshwater but im manning up and taking the saltwater plunge. so again thanks hydro ill keep it under control and thanks other dude the vinegar worked great. tomorrow more pics. . . . . and less rants!!


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## GetITCdot

The two holes located at the back of the tank, no clue what those are, but i can tell you right now they are in PERFECT position to have powerheads laced into them. Or even a return pump to get circulation going near the base of the live rock.

The hole at the top seems to be ether an overflow hole or a return hole...does it go into a box or straight out of the tank? if it leads to a box you have yourself an overflow, if it goes straight out, you have your return.


More pictures of holes, and plumbing please.


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## trouble93

Welcome to our nightmare... There are so many ways you can do your overflow. Just keep this in mind you are making a complete circle. One thing I would take a look at is that wet/dry. Look to see if you can find a 30 or 40 gal. breeder cheep and you can add your baffles. Another thing I would suggest is taking a piece of paper and a pencil and plan your whole system in the long run this will save you money then just winging it.


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## beaslbob

My first impression is the in tank overflow is the drain to the sump and all the other holes are various returns. 

my .02


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## beaslbob

Have you figured out which one goes in the bottom hole in the overflow? How about the peice with the black rubber gasket on the end?

my .02


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## user43007

OK SO HERE ARE SOME MORE PICS. BASICALLY ALL THE SAME HOPEFULLY A LITTLE MORE CLEAR. THIS IS THE PUMP LIKE THE ONE I HAVE. SOME PEOPLE SAY I NEED A BIGGER FILTER, OTHERS SAY IM FINE. IM GOING TO GO WITH ABOUT 100 LBS OF GOOD QUALITY LIVE ROCK AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE MORE LIVE ROCK, THE LESS FILTER YOU NEED. IS THAT TRUE? THE PIPE WITH THE GASKET IS THE 1 FOR THE BOTTOM OF THE OVERFLOW. SO BASICALLY THE WATER FLOWS OVER THE OVERFLOW, INTO THE FILTER I GUESS THROUGH THE TOP? THROUGH THE BIO BALLS THROUGH THE SPONGE, FILLING UP THE NEXT CHAMBER. THE PUMP THEN FLOWS THE WATER OUT OF 1 OF THE 2 EXIT PIPES ON THE FILTER? WHY IS 1 HIGHER THAN THE OTHER? ITS THEN PUMPED BACK INTO THE TANK THROUGH THE HOLE IN THE BACK UPPER CORNER? TO ME THAT DOESNT SEEM LIKE ENOUGH WATER FLOWING THROUGH THE OVERFLOW AND OUT THE FILTER. AND GETIT, I CAN PUT POWERHEADS THROUGH THOSE HOLES USING BULKHEADS? WHAT KIND OF BULKHEADS? AND TROUBLE, IF I GET A TANK FOR A NEW WET/DRY, FIRST CHAMBER BIO BALLS SECOND CHAMBER OUTPUT SUMP PUMP? I THINK IM STARTING TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT IN MY HEAD. KEEP IT COMING BOYS AND THANKS FOR EVERYONES HELP SO FAR. HERE ARE THE PICS, IM OFF TO CRAIGSLIST!!!



THIS IS THE PUMP



ALL THE PIPING



THIS IS THE BEST SHOT OF THE TANK I CAN GET ITS IN THE WORST SPOT POSSIBLE IN MY LIVING ROOM CLOSEST IS TH OVERDLOW BOX AND ON THE FARSIDE I LEFT A BRUSH HANDLE SO U CAN SEE THE HOLE


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## trouble93

For your live rock you want a pound per gal. of water. And if you redo your sump I would give a lot of thought to those bio- balls. I'm surprised beaslbob has not said it yet but if you use a bigger tank as a sump you can add macro algae to one section. Do you plan on running a skimmer?


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## beaslbob

Well it does look like it cleaned up nicely.

It would be better to actually see all the parts first hand but from what I see It doesn't make sence with the box below the tank.

But it the filter box was above the tank and drained to the tank then it does make sense.

First check to see if the slotted pvc with the black flange on the end will fit into corner overflow box hole at the bottom. 

then check to see if the two pieces with the 2 black flexiable tubes and the white screw on caps screw into the two pieces with valves on the small end of the filter box.

then check to see if the large flexible tube has one end that just slides into the hole at top of the tall end of the filter box.

If the pump can be attached between the drain in the tank overflow box and the large flexible tube I think you may have it.

If this is correct the drain goes to the pump intake.

The pump pumps the water UP to the filter box large end.

The filter box drains through the vavles to the both pvc pipes with the black tubings.

The tubing then is attached to the holes in the back of the tank.


Unless I missed something I think this was the way it worked before.


Let me know if there is something I missed or if things are back wards.

Under that operation the sump by definition is actually your display. By definition the sump is the lowest container in the system.

my .02


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## phys

Having extra live rock will definately help filtration. You may want to go with more live rock than you are planning. The more live rock you have, the less amount of other filtration is needed. But i guess you can really never go too overkill with filtration. haha


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## beaslbob

Just a little tutorial on tank/sump setup and operation.

First any closed pipe/tube/whatever with no air and full of water connecting two containers of water and under the water line of both can form a siphon. And water will flow from the higher level to the lower.

If both container are at the same height the water levels will flow until they are equal.

With the container not at the same height with one completely below the other, water will flow from the higher to the level until the upper container's "pipe" will no longer be under the water level.

To prevent the lower container from flooding you must "break" the siphon. 

Under power out the return lines form that siphon and therefore the return lines must be above the water line or small holes must be used to "suck air" and bread the siphon. If not the lower container will flood.

Under normal operation the overflow must self adjust to maintain the level in the upper container. So that if more water is pumped to the upper container, nor water is drained. The same thing happens in tubs and sinks that have a little hole near the top. with the stopper closed, the sink will fill up to that hole then the water "overflows" and drains down that hole. turn the water faucet up or down and more or less water overflows preventing the sink from flooding the floor. And my wife getting mad. LOL

Also under power out the overflow should not continue draining and must stop draining before the lower container floods.

Under power return, normal operation should return. This is more important with siphon (HOB) overflows. 

One important consideration is what happens if the drains fail. Either through siphon (HOB) failure or blockage. the other container will still be pumping water and what is important is that container should run dry before the drain container floods.

If your system has the box above, and the two drains plug up, the pump will continue to pump water and that may flood the filter box. If that is the case you need to add a much taller tube in the overflow box so that the pump will run dry before the box floods.


my .02


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## user43007

Ok Bob Im Scrapping It All. Still Dont Know What To Do With The 2 Holes In The Back Of The Tank Towards The Bottom. Someone Suggested Powerheads And Im Waiting For An Answer On What The Hell To Do With That! But Here Is My Plan. I Dont Really Have To Worry About The Whole Siphon Problem You Just Schooled Me On Cause Its Drain Is Through The Overflow Which Will Only Be Draining Whats Overflowed Into There. Ok The Plan! 40 To 50 Gallon Fish Tank. 3 Chambers Made By Me Using 1/4" Plexi And Silicone. First Chamber Bio Balls. Second Chamber Refugium I Seen 1 Made On Youtube With Some Of That Mudd, Moss, And Live Rock With A Small Light Above. Third Chamber Sump Pump. I Still Havent Figured Out If I Need The 1st Chamber Higher Where The Bio Balls Will Be. I Dunno. Im Going To Buy The Tank This Week And The Plexi And Ill Basically Going To Wing It. The Return Is Going To Be The Hole On The Back Right Upper Corner. Im Going To Have To Put A Check Valve I Think Its Called To Keep Water Flowing Back To The Pump Chamber. I Just Need To Figure What To Do With The Intake. I Know The Pump Will Overflow The Water Into The Box And Then... Like I Said, Havent Figured Out The Intake. So When Its All Done I Should Be Able To Fill The Sump Or Wet Dry Whatever It Will Be. Then Fill The Tank To The Overflow Line. And When I Plug It In, It Should All Flow Into The Overflow Box, Down Through The Bioballs Through A Sponge Overflow Into The Refugium Chamber Overflow Into The Pump Chamber And Start All Over Again. Did That All Make Sense??? Thank Bob You The Man!!!! And Trouble What Do You Mean About The Bioballs? I Didnt Really Plan On Running A Skimmer, But I Plan On Trying To Keep Some Room For 1 Possibly In The Future. And I Want About 100 To 150 Pounds Of Live Rock But Its So Damn Expensive Ill Probably Only Start With 100lbs And Gradually Add. Like I Said, Im In No Real Rush I Just Wanna Get Started On The Filter So I Can Move The Heavy Bastard Where Its Going And Get My Livingroom Back!! Then I Can Start Getting Some Rock Going. Craigslist I Found It As Cheap As $2lb But Only 20 30 Lbs Here And There. When I Get The Filter Tank Ill Post Some Pics. Im Also Going To Need To Buy A Sump Pump, Open To Suggestions On That!!thanks Guys Keep It Coming And Bob Lemme Know What You Think Of My Idea


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## phys

Its fine to build your live rock as you go, you just cant have coral or fish in there until you get it all in due to the mini-cycles you'll get when you put new stuff in. If you find any later on that came from a precycled tank, that will help things a long a little faster. Live rock iiiissss expensive! I hear you on that!


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## beaslbob

Let me try to break this down to bite sized pieces. better fro my thoughts anyway and this does happen with sump type posts. *old dude




user43007 said:


> Ok Bob Im Scrapping It All.


I think you can use most of what yot got. But the previous user probably had a different setup then you want


> Still Dont Know What To Do With The 2 Holes In The Back Of The Tank Towards The Bottom. Someone Suggested Powerheads And Im Waiting For An Answer On What The Hell To Do With That!


One possibility is to use a new pump and just pump water from one hole to the other. It is called a closed loop. No need of worring about siphon/flooding because the pipe and pump are totally sealed and below the water line. It increases circulation also.


> Continued next post. LOL


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## beaslbob

user43007 said:


> continued from previous *old dude
> ...
> I Dont Really Have To Worry About The Whole Siphon Problem You Just Schooled Me On Cause Its Drain Is Through The Overflow Which Will Only Be Draining Whats Overflowed Into There.


 You are now schooling me and absolutely correct!!!!!!!!! With my highly technical nerdy definition of a sump, the overflow area is actually the sump not the entire tank. (as long as the overflow area is totally sealed with no leaks below the "teeth" on the top.


> Ok The Plan![/quote} oh boy oh boy can hardly wait. (see you are now thinking!!!!!!!!!!) 40 To 50 Gallon Fish Tank. 3 Chambers Made By Me Using 1/4" Plexi And Silicone. First Chamber Bio Balls. Second Chamber Refugium I Seen 1 Made On Youtube With Some Of That Mudd, Moss, And Live Rock With A Small Light Above. Third Chamber Sump Pump. I Still Havent Figured Out If I Need The 1st Chamber Higher Where The Bio Balls Will Be. I Dunno. Im Going To Buy The Tank This Week And The Plexi And Ill Basically Going To Wing It.


 Yep typical tank based sump/filter system. The plexi-glass interface for the baffles is hard to get correct as silicon doesn't stick to plexi very well. While you're out shopping stop at your local wall mart and price out 30g plastic storage containers. and some smaller ones as well. Keep in mind that you can put one in for and aft with the back sticking out of the back of the stand. And you can use a small container inside the larger to form a "baffle". I would not use any bioballs but rather use as much of the volumn for a refugium as possible with chaetomorphia(brillo pad)


> The Return Is Going To Be The Hole On The Back Right Upper Corner.


 why not use the overflow and just let it drain through the bulkhead to the sump?


> continued next post


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## beaslbob

continued from previous


> Ill Basically Going To Wing It.


yep we all do. 


> Im Going To Have To Put A Check Valve I Think Its Called To Keep Water Flowing Back To The Pump Chamber.


 seperate and very important thought. NEVER!! Never and just to make sure the point is made never use check valves. *old dude The design and setup (water levels) should make any check valves unnecessary plus the check valves themselves are unreliable and would cause problems.


> continued next post.


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## beaslbob

continued from previous


> I Just Need To Figure What To Do With The Intake. I Know The Pump Will Overflow The Water Into The Box And Then... Like I Said, Havent Figured Out The Intake.


It will be much clearer once you actually set it up. Basically the pump intake must be below the water line in the sump. So the sump water flows to the pump intake through gravity. One of the key final adjustments (I didn't know and learned through 3 floods) is to make sure that should the drain fail the sump water level goes below the pump intake before the upper container floods.


> So When Its All Done I Should Be Able To Fill The Sump Or Wet Dry Whatever It Will Be. Then Fill The Tank To The Overflow Line. And When I Plug It In, It Should All Flow Into The Overflow Box, Down Through The Bioballs Through A Sponge Overflow Into The Refugium Chamber Overflow Into The Pump Chamber And Start All Over Again. Did That All Make Sense???


 Harder to describe than observe. fill the display until the sump overflows near its power off level. Turn on the pump and make adjustments.


> Thank Bob You The Man!!!!


 now tell my wife. *r2


> continued next post.


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## beaslbob

contined from previous


> And Trouble What Do You Mean About The Bioballs?


Bio balls are considered nitrate generators which is not really a problem if there is sufficient plant life (macros) to consume the resulting nitrates. But at best they are at least unnecessary, generally have to be cleaned and could plug up if you don't clean.


> I Didnt Really Plan On Running A Skimmer,


Good man!. I don't use skimmers


> But I Plan On Trying To Keep Some Room For 1 Possibly In The Future. And I Want About 100 To 150 Pounds Of Live Rock But Its So Damn Expensive Ill Probably Only Start With 100lbs And Gradually Add. Like I Said, Im In No Real Rush I Just Wanna Get Started On The Filter So I Can Move The Heavy Bastard Where Its Going And Get My Livingroom Back!!


Understand completely. But best to have woopsies in the garadge not the living room *old dude see my "overarching" comments below


> Then I Can Start Getting Some Rock Going. Craigslist I Found It As Cheap As $2lb But Only 20 30 Lbs Here And There. When I Get The Filter Tank Ill Post Some Pics. Im Also Going To Need To Buy A Sump Pump, Open To Suggestions


 you already have a pump!


> On That!!thanks Guys Keep It Coming And Bob Lemme Know What You Think Of My Idea



It sure sounds like you have done your homework and are progressing.

Now let me give you the much flamed, years ago (2003 or so), before I learned how to post, got me banned on boards, "beaslbob" over arching idea.

it's the algae stupid!!!!!!*old dude

and a general 

By that I mean what makes live rock work is the (hopefully nice pretty corraline) algae on the rocks.

With a refugium full of macros live sand has no nitrates to reduce.

Plus here (huntsville al) they have a limestone quarry that has 2-3" "surge" rocks. the price for those rocks is $20/*ton*. the only real problem is the rock is dense but otherwise it works fine. If you have a lot of time on your hands you can even make rock using concrete but that is a real pain and takes time.

the sand can just be premium play sand from building supply stores.

the refugium light can be cheapie fixture from those stores.

And, to some extent, the top lighting can be utility fixtures also.

calcium/alk/magnesium can be supplimented with common inexpensive chemicals. Look up diy two part from dr holmes-farley.

So get the system setup adjusted, tested, and checked out with plain water in the garadge.

Then move to final location and fill with saltwater. 

And right from the start get the refugium full of as much chaetomorphia as you can get.

Let is run for a week so the chaeto expands and things settle down.


Then add a few male mollys. (yes the FW fish from the LFS)

And let it run with the mollys for a week with no food being added.

then start feeding a single flake per day per fish.

And see how things work

After a 2-3 weeks the tank should ready for some marine fish.

And is a few months some easy corals.

And let us know how it all works.

Oh look up paul-b's 40 year old reef tank here also.


my .02


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