# coppered lr



## jeffb (Aug 5, 2009)

i coppered my dt and left in 40 or so lbs of lr.
i now have tore down and refilled the tank .
i have the now base rock in a 35 gallon tank with 3 powerheads and two bags of carbon.
i keep changing the water out every few days the test shows no trace of copper in the water after a few days .
do you think it is ok to put the rock in the sump after a a couple months of doing this.
i do have inverts in there.
do you think it would start to grow pods and good bacteria or should i just toss the rock?


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## drhank (Aug 3, 2009)

Personally, I wouldn't. I'd toss the LR.


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## Imaexpat2 (Jun 17, 2009)

Im with Doc...Id toss the rock or use it in a FW African Lake cichlid tank. SW inverts are pretty sensitive about any traces of Copper in a system. Often times available test kits arent sensitive enough to really be testing for something....case in point, Phosphates! If you can detect it on a test kit, its already at levels too high for a SW tank.

Thats just my opinion so take it as such...


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## salth2o (Aug 3, 2009)

I had a FOWLR tank that I ran low level copper in for a few years. When I decided I did not want to have that tank anymore I talked to the guys at my LFS. They use it in their display tanks that run copper, as well as sell it to other clients running copper. They agreed to trade with me at 3/4 lbs. In other words for every pound of copper LR, they gave me credit for 3/4lbs of reef LR. Now, I have a really good relationship/friendship with the owner so I am not saying that all places would do this for you. But, if you bought it there, or have a good relationship with them you may wanna ask. 

Regarding using it I am with Doc about not using it. However if you decide to use I would be very careful, run a bunch of copper level tests, and start with inexpensive stuff. Odds are you can never remove all the copper in a porous surface, but in the end it is up to you if you want to take the risk.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Most will recommend you toss the rock because copper at unmeauserable levels will kill corals in our systems. so they are just being better safe then sorry.

IMHO macro algaes will condition the tank to very very low (and unmeasureable) copper levels as they grow and consume nitrates, phosphates, Carbon dioxide. Then by harvesting the macros the copper is exported from the tank.

So the rock will eventually be safe. You might try a few easy corals and see how they do. It is encouraging that pods and other inverts are doing fine.


my .02


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## drhank (Aug 3, 2009)

Bob, my guess would be that you are a big fan of Macro algae!*W


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

drhank said:


> Bob, my guess would be that you are a big fan of Macro algae!*W



Yep. 

In the only data I have seen on macros and copper, one type of macro had copper in the macro rise from ~30ppm to over 1,000ppm when exposed to 250ppm copper over two weeks. The bioacculuation (filtering out) of the copper was directly porportional to the time and the concentration of copper in the water. (they also tested shorter time and lower levels of copper).

As a quick, down and dirty, and much too oversimplified analysis, I calculated that 1/10 pound of the macro would remove the 250ppm of copper in a 55g tank. Additionally 250ppm copper is higher then the at tap copper levels at ~ 80% of the major cities in the US.

Sure the copper would not go down to 0 because the bioacculumation was proportional to the copper cencentration. But a longer amount of time and greater amount of macro would be very effective in removing that copper. Even if the study and my analysis was off by a factor of 10 or 100.

Copper levels to fight ich are much lower (20ppm? i think). So the algae would bring down that level even faster.


The real concern is that the algae on the live rock (at first) would be consuming the copper which would then be fed to inverts like snails, crabs, and so on. Where the copper in the plant life would be greatest.


Hence my comments that the fact that the inverts are doing well was a very good sign.

But hey that's just me.

and my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Oh yea

One downside of macros is as stated above that they bioaccumulate copper. Which can render the copper treatment impotent.


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## salth2o (Aug 3, 2009)

beaslbob said:


> Yep.
> 
> Hence my comments that the fact that the inverts are doing well was a very good sign.
> 
> ...


Bob, 
Thanks for the great info!!!!

Only thing is, I interpreted what he was saying about the inverts differently. I took it as he asking can I put the rock in my sump, and then telling us that he has inverts in his tank already (hence his additional concern).... 

Perhaps you can clarify JeffB *Conf*


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

salth2o said:


> Bob,
> Thanks for the great info!!!!
> 
> Only thing is, I interpreted what he was saying about the inverts differently. I took it as he asking can I put the rock in my sump, and then telling us that he has inverts in his tank already (hence his additional concern)....
> ...


Yea he was going to put it in the sump.

I think it will be fine there.

But must my .02


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## salth2o (Aug 3, 2009)

Well I'd buy your .02 for $1*w3*w3*w3


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

salth2o said:


> Well I'd buy your .02 for $1*w3*w3*w3


dern

I made a profit 












today anyway


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## jeffb (Aug 5, 2009)

i decided i would put a few pieces in my qt and stack the rest somewhere.
i have a nice cuc i dont want to mess up.
its a fowlr tank i have a 120 sump with a 60 gallon section for the rock but for a couple hundred bucks i can fill it with lr rubble.
if i lose the cuc its over $100 worth so i am not going to chance it ,just wanted to see what everyone though.
as i figured better safe than sorry.


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## salth2o (Aug 3, 2009)

jeffb said:


> i decided i would put a few pieces in my qt and stack the rest somewhere.
> i have a nice cuc i dont want to mess up.
> its a fowlr tank i have a 120 sump with a 60 gallon section for the rock but for a couple hundred bucks i can fill it with lr rubble.
> if i lose the cuc its over $100 worth so i am not going to chance it ,just wanted to see what everyone though.
> as i figured better safe than sorry.


I think you are on the right track, but Bob seems to have a wealth of knowledge on this subject. I would keep in touch with him and follow his suggestions if you really want to try and save the rock.


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## jeffb (Aug 5, 2009)

you know i just went an checked the copper in the water it has been in there for a week and not a trace of copper.
i changed the water i am on the fence as to putting it in the sump.
i run carbon 24/7 in my sump for the dt tank because i dont have corals just a big cuc.
i am going to keep the rock in the tank and do wter changes for another few weeks and make a decision about putting it into the sump.


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