# Tough hobby for a guy with anxiety:)



## nebraskaheat (Apr 25, 2012)

Man, I can't help but walk by my tank every 10 minutes to see if my Barbs and gourami are alright.. I even have a flashlight by the tank and get up and check when i use the restroom at night (flashlight because tank is in bedroom and wife already thinks i'm crazy as is)

I know my PH levels are high, but my nitrate and nitrite levels are fine and there is zero chlorine. 

since learning that my tank heater wasn't calibrated I've slowly been dropping the temp down and have gone from 84.4 to 81.1 in the last couple days..


I obviously overfeed them at first (stupid label on the bottle told me to do it 3 times a day) but have only feed once in the last 3 days.. Ph is still high. Done two 25% water changes the last two days, still high.. How much longer do I have? I ordered some ph lowering stuff (proper ph 7.5) and expect in on monday. 

My Barbs seem healthy, they are frisky and chasing eachother around, constantly exploring the tank. Eating well.. Will the high PH kill them in a week, two weeks a month? I know no one can know for sure, just curious if there is a general guideline or not.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

The high pH won't even bother them, if you don't use the pH lowering chemicals. Chances are, the minerals in your water that raise the pH will neutralize the pH chemicals you've bought, causing the pH to bounce. That does harm.

I used to experiment a bit with those chemicals. In my well buffered (by dissolved minerals) Montreal tap, a good dose of pH down would drop the reading from 7.5 to 6.0 in moments. An hour later, my pH was 7.5. pH lowering chemicals do nothing to the reason for high pH.

The reason is probably your tap water. You might want to test its pH, out of curiosity. But most Barbs and Gouramis can take alkaline water. They won't die of it.

So, how high is this pH?

How big is the tank?

How many barbs and gouramis?

What species?


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm going to add here - fish kept in a wrong pH won't breed. Usually, their eggs are highly adapted to the mineral content of their home environment, and can't hatch or develop outside of their limits. But adult fish can usually make the transition. There are many species from extreme environments that do poorly and live shorter lives than they would in better water (for them), but they will survive.
Most hobby barbs are tough and adaptable. Gouramis evolved their ability to breathe through their inner ear as a reponse to their living in nasty water to begin with - hence their popularity in the early days of this hobby.

If you want to see if a fish is tough, find an old aquarium book. If it's in there, it's tough! Those books have almost all the gouramis and barbs you see in stores today (minus the newer, disease-ridden hybrid gouramis).

A hardwater fish like a molly, or a delicate softwater fish like a Discus will respond to inappropriate conditions in much the same way - through a tendency to skin irritations. They have fewer defences against parasites in 'wrong' water, and they can die when first put into it. 

But your fish will be fine.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello nav...

The pH issue is interesting. I keep quite a few Corydoras and over the years have seen a large number of eggs on the plants and the tank glass, but my pH is 7.4 and Corys require a neutral pH. I have large tanks and to my knowledge, I've never had any little Corys.

B


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## hanky (Jan 18, 2012)

A fluctuating PH can be the worst, what are the levels in the tank? and out of the tap? fish can adjust to different levels but you dont want it going up and down. let us know the levels.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

For BBradbury - the issue with most Cory's isn't really pH - it's just that pH is easy to measure. It's minerals in the water. The Amazon's water is generally mineral poor, especially in a lot of the little tributaries corys abound in. 

When the egg is expelled, it is small and expands by rapidly drawing in water (and sperm). If the water is full of minerals, the egg, which has evolved to grab any mineral it can get in its response to scarcity, takes in too much, hardens, and can't develop properly. As well, there are suggestions a lot of sperm don't get far in mineral rich water.

With Apistogramma dwarf cichlids, they often simply can't break out of the egg shell in hard water, and the fry die in the egg.

If I could get my water very soft, I could breed wild-caught blackwater Apistos from a pH of 5.0 at pH 6.6. They didn't care about the pH, but the hardness was everything.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Hello again nav...

Your comment on the minerals is a good one. I keep at least half the water in my tanks changed out weekly, so I'm keeping a high mineral level in the water for the sake of my plants. I never test the water chemistry because I know with large, weekly water changes, there's never a build up of ammonia or nitrites between water changes.

I could be creating an environment for my Cory's that keeps them healthy, but isn't helping their reproduction.

Any other thoughts?

B


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess we're mutating this thread - apologies - but at the same time, I think we are touching on the pH question.

I'm not a water tester, and the plant people on the forum probably despair of my postings - I am the king of anubias, ferns, crypts and low light plants. I have jungles of Bolbitis heudelotti that started in 1992 and haven't ever been trimmed back. Slow but steady decorates the place.
So I can't comment on minerals, except to say my livebearer tanks have way better plant growth than my rainforest fish tanks.
Some of the habitats rainforest fish, like many Corys come from are scary. The water flows, but the land is barren of minerals to dissolve. The pH can be under 5 for some species, with almost no measurable hardness. These are biologically extreme habitats, and the fish have had to adapt big time to survive. That's why so many of our fish are in danger with the Hydro dam plans, the soy and cattle farms and the logging in Amazonia. Once a fish has been shaped by a specific niche into a very specialized form, it is vulnerable if that niche changes. Very vulnerable.

You could bring out the Corys to a second tank, with your water, and then give them a shot of soft, cooler water. They'll often spawn really quickly after that. You could then return them to the main tank - that's how I used to breed my Scleromystax barbatus, which I had living with livebearers. Spring's coming in - pretty soon you wouldn't even need a heater, even where I am.

You have to go to them to breed them, and if you're getting eggs, you're really close. You just need to get the eggs to hatch.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

One thing about cories, and mine breed all the time in my 7.4 water, but they are bad at eating their own eggs. If you want babies, put them in a seperate tank then pull the adults out.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

susankat said:


> One thing about cories, and mine breed all the time in my 7.4 water, but they are bad at eating their own eggs. If you want babies, put them in a seperate tank then pull the adults out.


Good morning and apologies for the thread-splitting if that's the term. I'm essentially maxed out on the tanks at this point. Seven fairly large ones and really no time or space to set up another one. Was just wondering about the eggs, but no little ones so far.

Guess, I'll visit my local source for Corydoras if I can't get them to breed in my tanks.

Thanks for the help!

B


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## nebraskaheat (Apr 25, 2012)

navigator black said:


> The high pH won't even bother them, if you don't use the pH lowering chemicals. Chances are, the minerals in your water that raise the pH will neutralize the pH chemicals you've bought, causing the pH to bounce. That does harm.
> 
> I used to experiment a bit with those chemicals. In my well buffered (by dissolved minerals) Montreal tap, a good dose of pH down would drop the reading from 7.5 to 6.0 in moments. An hour later, my pH was 7.5. pH lowering chemicals do nothing to the reason for high pH.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info. My tank is 29 gallons and I have only 5 small barbs, 1 gourami, 1 currently unknown tropical fish that I've got to get back to the LFS and identify, as he was kind of thrown in witht he barbs because I wanted variety and he was already in their barb tank. And 1 pleco..



I was going to add 2 more barbs and be done. They are all small right now. not the smallest ones you can buy, but only the next size up from there..

PH level are still high, around 8.0 but everything else remains fine and the barbs seem healthy and active still..


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about your ph. Honestly it doesn't particularly matter for hardy fish because they easily adapt to water conditions. 

I keep my rasboras in a ph of 7.6 . 8.0 and they are perfectly happy (rasboras generally "prefer" a ph range of 6 - 6.5). Unless you are keeping a water sensitive fish like discus I wouldn't worry too much about it.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I agree with what others have said. The high pH should not be a problem. DON'T use the ph altering chemicals or you'll likely end up with much worse problems.


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