# beginner questions and advice etc (air, filter, stock)



## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

hi guys, I wasnt sure wether to put this in the coldwater section or here as its a cold tank but im also new! please move it if this was the wrong choice 

I was given a tank ages ago and it just sat there. Then one day I randomly cleaned it, went out and bought some gravel and got a pump+air stone and some "tap safe" i was told to add to the water and just set it up like that, no fish, and left it running a few weeks.

over past 2 weeks i've actually put some stuff in it. I added 2 (real) plants, a couple of oranaments, 3 zebra danios and 3 cloudy mountain minnows and they've been happy as pie. just over a week later I went to a different store to see if i could find a slightly bigger and pretty fish and bought a filter for the tank. I also wanted what i only knew as a "sucker fish" to help keep it clean and tidy (now know I wanted a loach)

The more "interesting" fish I was recommended not to get as they'd likely eat my minnows, so i scrapped that. The loach I was told would become aggressive when adult so scrapped that too! What I came back with was two beautiful platties and I was told that shrimp would be a much better idea if i wanted algae eaters so i got three shrimp.

Now come my questions!

When I brought back the filter I got a T adapter with the intention of running it off the same pump as my air stone - but it became quickly apparant the pump was not up to the task and the air stone would not produce bubbles with the filter running. I did some googling and people were saying online the airstone was not neccessary as what oxanginates the tank was movement on the surface of the water and my filter is shooting bubbles out the top and rippling the -entire- surface and would serve fine to provide oxygen as well.

I was kinda glad, cuz the airstone was a tacky blue shell thing and i was never a fan. so i ditched it. the tank has been fine past week but since then i've seen online people saying you DO need both.. which is true? my fish seem happy enough!

secondly about my shrimp: when I first put them in they were scurrying all over the bottom of the tank exploring things, climbing the oranaments and inspecting the plants. past few days though they just seem to sit and hide, rare to see them move about at all and I was wondering if they were unhappy. When I feed the fish (was told to use tropical flakes) they do come and pick up what floats to the bottom. maybe its my imagination but they dont seem very enthusiastic, they dont come out far just get what lands near them and dont seem to eat a lot.

i checked the paperwork i was given with the fish and they are labeled Yamato Shrimp. I've googled them today and most references i find to them claim wanting a tank minium 18 degrees and usually around 22! But i've been sold them as cold water fish (and certainly in the store they had hundreads in a cold tank with danios). Are they going to be ok?

I was also told in the store that the shrimp "dont count" towards tank stock levels and you can basically have as many as you want. I find it hard to believe that any creature "doesnt count" but took it as advice from "the expert" but would just like to check that - I feel my tank probably has enough fish in it but was thinking of maybe adding 3 more shrimp so they had a little crew as they seem happier in numbers. good idea? bad idea?

think i had more questions but that will do for now! i'll throw some pictures of my little tank up in a min 

picture: https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=DC89528214610020&id=DC89528214610020!590

someone will have to tell me if that link works or not, im not sure if it requires a sign up for you to view, if so please say and i'll put the picture elsewhere!


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## silvergourami1 (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeah some species require a certain amount of their kind to fell safe...SAFETY IN NUMBERS! 

Yes, the bottomfeeders do count as ratios-smaller ratios albeit. Use the agadvisor for preliminary counts. This is a very useful tool and will give you decent percentages. 
Depending on your tank size I would maintain at least a min of three shrimp; maybe four if it is a smaller tank, especially if you have no other bottomfeeders.

There is a possibility that your shrimp are stressed because they are being harassed. I would pay attention; even record if possible when not around like at night to see if they are being pestered. it could be other factors like ph, not enough food, temperature inaccuracies or fluctuations. 

I hate being stressed everytiem I make adjustments, get new fish, alter or remod my existing tanks...when the fish are stressed so am I!

I just went through a short-cycling with existing tank water and am watching my buds ever closely for erratic behavior. It drives me bonkers, but it needed to be done and I wanted to do a re-aquascape...am glad now it looks sweet and I think the fish luv it too. Now I just need more plants and walla!!!


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle
The link only brings you to the home/log in page.
I'm going to take a guess and say your tank is not "cycled". It won't if there are no fish or other thing live to create ammonia.
So when you put the danio's and minnows in it started to cycle. Read the link. You will understand then why your shrimp are
acting weird. You need a test kit. I don't know if they sell one just for ammonia. They do sell one just for Nitrates. If it's
a money issue you can change some water( about 25%) each day for a few days till you get a reading on the Nitrates.
You need at least that kit. Then you have tropical fish in a cold tank. The minnows can live in cold but the danio's and platties
need a heater. The shop is at or over 76F(they heat it in winter) so get a heater soon. Likely your house is also warm but 
won't be in winter but the main thing is temperature changes. Fish can't handle quick changes. With the heater set on 76F
it will not change much unless you go out and leave the a/c off for long but then when you turn it on after thew water is
80-82F the temp will drop. Just a couple of degrees is not bad but the heater set to 76 will keep it from going down a lot.
Maybe even set it on 78F.
Amano Shrimp .:. Caridina multidentata .:. Freshwater Aquarium Shrimp Species Information Page
Filter is enough.
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor


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## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

thanks for the replies! I was warned that pets at home wasnt always the best place to talk to people about fish (thats where i got my two platys and the shrimp, rest was from a good place) but i'm actually really annoyed over all. All these fish have been sold to me as cold water fish, absolutely no mention of heat for winter or anything and i would of been REALLY upset if they had all died when winter hits hard (I dont heat the house during the night!)

I will get a heater for the tank as I like these fish. But i'm also pretty annoyed because if I was going to heat the tank I would probably of chosen different fish like neon tetras etc, I thought everything in the tropical section was going to be off limits to me! I may be getting a bigger tank though so if thats the case maybe I can add some interesting tropicals later  I will head out after work today and find a heater and I think another plant and something for the shrimp to hide under. Also the test kit and will report back my results!

I read last night that yamato shrimp are actually nocturnal which may explain what I have been observing! I got up about 1am last night and snuck a look at the tank and indeed all 3 shrimp were running around, exploring and scavenging so hopefully its all okay after all 

I do have a new problem though! Baby snails! I counted 6 last night, were not there 2 days ago! little black shells I *think* coming to a point, what are these guys? I'm assuming they've been dorment on one of my plants! I dont mind the odd snail as long as they dont take over and make a mess, 6 is quite alot though! I've read yamato shrimp will eat snails straight out of their shells - can I trust my little guys to take care of the snail issue or at least keep it under control?


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I have heard that Via Aqua is a good heater and inexpensive. Have one but never have used it yet because of having a heater
in both tanks already. One is that cheap hang on the side of the tank type, but still working and the other is a good marineland.
"They" say you should buy the one next up the list from what is actually recommended. Works for me. Don't know about those 
shrimp eating snails but assassin snails(e-bay) do eat other snails. Actually I get a lot of my supplies from on-line like Petco,
Petsmart, Petmountain and e-bay because of cost. You will pay shipping so really only a multiple item purchase is good for
saving though. You might mention what size tank you have as it is helpful when making suggestions about various things.
I have two ten gallon tanks due to lease limits(and actually they never said how many so until they do...). Research which
conditions are good for plants just like you would about fish before you get them...it helps. They usually change quite a bit
when you get them due to habitat change and in many cases they loose leaves and the new ones grow back smaller than
they were when you got them as a high percent of them are grown in direct sunlight where they grow them for sale.
For references: aquarium_plants_1
If you look in the side to the right it does this/w fish also under "Find your aquarium fish"
Tropical freshwater aquarium fish: Find plants
I think most of us have a gazillion of these so don't hesitate to ask.


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## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't actually know how big my tank is because it was just given to me and I'm unsure how to measure it because of its odd shape, the front is like half a hexagon and the back is triangular to fit into a corner but its tall. I google img searched until i found simular looking size and shape and i reckon its a 15g tank thou potentially 20.

i cant find ANY information about my filter capacity though! Its a Penn plax small world filter. Only info i can find is in Penn plax online catalogue they claim its suffcient for their 45 gallon new world tank.


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## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

went and blew some money at the pet store! got a heater, a log (for the shrimp to hide in), a small plant and some bits and bobs i'd probably need but was sorely lacking like a little fish net.

I went to get a water test kit but the only one they had one type left, its one of those strips ones (which i heard ppl say not great!) and it was a tetra 6 in 1 jobby for cl2, ph, kh, gh, no2 and no3. all of which came up in the "safe" area of the scale which im pleased about!

with this heater, should i start on a lower temp and maybe increase it a bit each day to around 20c? i honestly dont know what the current water tempreture is. now i've got this log and an extra plant i want to reaquascape the tank, is this going to be stressful for my fish and shrimp? should i remove them to another container whilst im doing it?

kinda excited lol


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm a bit surprised the people at the fish store didn't suggest you get a thermometer/w your heater. The kind that is glass
is cheap and usually better than the stick on type. But I would check it against the wall thermostat one to see how close
it is to that one. How cold do you keep it in your house ? Because the tank should be one or two degrees higher than that
without a heater on. See what it is after about 15-20 miniuts in the tank. I think it would be safest for you to tell us what
it says after you put your aquarium thermometer in the tank for a while. We can proceed on that after you tell us.
The fish shouldn't be freaked out much to just put those things in while they are in there.


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## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

I didnt realise the water would be a bit warmer than the outside temp, i should do more reading! (though as soon as i read it on your post it clicked i tihnk i knew and forgot!)

we're having a heat wave here in england (for us anyway ) and ambient tempreture is like 26 atm. I put the heater in the tank (which goes down to 20 minium and tells you when its heating) and then i put it up to 24 and it still didnt turn on, turned it up to something high and it turned on so its working, turned it back down to 24 and left it there.

with the heater inside and other equipment my tank was looking cluttered and not pretty  so anyway today i've bought a new tank from a second hand forum xD its much bigger and im picking it up later this evening. its 80x30x40 (cm), comes with lamp, two filters, a heaters, net and gravel cleaning accessories. it was £35 which i consider to be bargin! yesterday i spent like over 50 on heater, gravel cleaning stuff and all that so im a bit gutted! but i have a friend interested in fish so maybe i sell him my older gear and try to minimise losses xD

im actually very excited about having a proper size tank to plant and things. i will google this in a minute but just for some one to one advice: moving fish to a new tank should i bag them like a shop, put all fresh water in new tank setting up from scratch and then floating their bag in new tank - or should i attempt to move as much of their old water as possible to the new tank? o.o

im going to need more gravel.


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## sephnroth (Jul 30, 2013)

just as an aside, caught two of my shrimp mating last night! made me wonder about setting up a very small salty tank to breed them! but one thing at a time XD


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

In my first reply I gave you a link to the aquarium "CYCLE". You stand about a 75% chance of killing all the fish if you don't
cycle the tank before you put them in it.
That heat is good for the fish. The tank, if it has a light, will get one or two degrees higher than outside of it.
Normally what people who have a thermometer do...as long as the temperature in the tank is at a good level like 24.5 to 25.5
they just turn it up till the light comes on, and then turn down a little till it goes back out. That will keep the temperature from
going down more than 2 degrees from there if the heater is big(in Watts) enough.
The beneficial bacteria are not in the water. They are on everything inside the tank but mostly in/on the filter media.
The easiest way to cycle the tank is to use Safe Start.
Tetra SafeStart Aquarium Bio Additives
Use the 100 ml size. But before you use the Safe Start use something like one of these, but only when you first put the
water in.
Weco DeChlor Water Conditioner Aquarium Water Conditioners
Seachem Prime Water Conditioner Aquarium Water Conditioners
After you use one of those and let it stand(with filter/heater on) for one day then add the Danios. No food the first day.
the next day add food and each day after also. Then not the next day after you first feed them but the next day test the water
to see if there is any ammonia. Keep testing each day till there is ammonia. Then when there is any put half the bottle
of Safe Start directly into your filter. Put the other half the next day.Wait one day and test for the ammonia again.
Test each day until you find nitrates. Your tank is mostly finished it's cycle when you get nitrates. If the ammonia gets
over .5 then you need to change about 16L of water each day it is over that till you get nitrates. When you get nitrates
the ammonia level should be dropping by then. Then follow the water change directions found on the Aqvisor I gave you.
After a week after you get nitrates you can add more fish but only 2-3 a week.


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