# adding new fish and ich



## Larimar (Apr 14, 2014)

Weve been treating for ich the natural way. 
Heat at 86f and using air stones to put more oxygen in the tank. We had a sick loach from the store and it almost died from meds..so when we stopped the meds the ich came back. But now he is flourishing. He schools and he started eating again after a week of sleeping. 
They all seem happier. But I can see ich still. 
I am guessing keeping the temp up for two-3 weeks may be needed?
Is it okay to get the rest of the fish we wanted to stock the tank with now while the heats raised so that if they do come in with ich again it can just go through treatment? I am worried about clearing ich and bringing in new ones after treatment stops to start it all again. I don't have a Q tank. 
The ich is just on a few fish- and only 1-3 spots on each. 
Not all fish are infected with it.
So the heat seems to help. Maybe need to kill more each time it is free swimming.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

More fish generally means more stress on the fish. More stress, more fish showing up with ich. High heat will not help. Personally, I would not want to keep my tank that high of heat for that long. Your fish may start to show signs of stress from the heat after too long. Adding salt with this method helps. Loaches are scaless, so maybe that was your issue with the med you used. Any med you use you need to use a half dose for these type of fish. 

Quick Cure always has taken away any signs of ich in 3-4 days max and even in cases where I needed to half-dose for Cardinal Tetras.

How big is your tank and how long have fish been in it? What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? How many fish do you already have?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

^^^1^^^ with Ben.Everything he asked again,and one more question.Why would you add fish to a sick tank?Fish don't "come with ich" if you choose correctly.The ich is in your tank now,so any new fish that don't have ich,but may be stressed(any/all of them)can easily get ick.
I use meds,even with scaless fish.
I would do more than just heat.I have read of people who cure with salt and or heat,but not to many here have claimed great success with this method.
I'll mention that increased heat or salt ARE NOT NATURAL,unless your fish come from very high temp "brackish waters".You can kill the ick or it can kill your fish,I always get real serious about killing ick.KILL IT WITH MEDS AND KILL IT QUICK!If it last more than 7 days you have lost the battle in my opinion.Don't get new fish till you solve your problem.


----------



## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

I would not add new fish to a sick tank.


----------



## Larimar (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. 
The first strain of ich did come from the pet store and they admitted to it later on. I'll continue with the natural treatment, it is said to take two weeks. Only one strain of ich is resistant to the heating method. It is working well. Used meds the first time and it killed all but one scaleless fish at half the dosage. So I don't want to stress them out using any chemicals again. I'm told if they eat well and keep their immune system up they can battle it off naturally with heat. 
I see an improvement, less ich, more activity...no food left lol. thanks again..


----------



## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Tank size?

Some points.....

*Running a UV sterilizer at low flow rates works great at helping eradicate Ick in the free swimming stage. 
*Salt can help, along with elevated temperature. 
*High temperatures do stress fish but speed up the Ich cycle greatly. As a single method of curing Ich......not normally effective
*Other known Ich cures can help but also stress fish
*Loaches are prone to being carriers of Ich
*Stressed fish are much more susceptible to Ich outbreaks....healthy fish use natural defenses to help protect against outbreaks. 
*Only free swimming stages are affected by medications or UV sterilizers

The key to avoiding Ich outbreaks is prevention....
Proper close inspection of all fish in the store's aquariums prior to purchase can usually spot the likelihood of Ich infections before you purchase. 
Even when not in the visible stage, observing erratic movements or rubbing against objects is a sure sign to stay away, far away.
Avoid all temptations......your gut instinct is normally correct. *old dude

But, regardless........QUARANTINE all new fish so as not to infect your main tank(s).

To the author......I would advise using some other <additional> method as a "cure". 
Those temps for any length of time is hard on most fish and normally as a singe cure will not provide satisfactory results.

Introducing new fish into a "sick" tank?
Why would you even consider it? Absolutely not!


----------



## Suzanne (Jun 10, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Quick Cure always has taken away any signs of ich in 3-4 days max and even in cases where I needed to half-dose for Cardinal Tetras.


Just curious, why would you need to half-dose for Cardinals?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Suzanne said:


> Just curious, why would you need to half-dose for Cardinals?


Directions say for Tetras half dose.


----------



## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

High heat and salt are unnatural for fish but chloride salt of malachite green and Formalin (Formaldehyde) are not?

I think it is important to start with one method and finish with it. If you still see white spots after 4 days, your dosage parameters are either off, or you have misdiagnosed.

Most fish come from places where the waters hit the mid 80s for at least a very short period during the year. It might be an excessive heat wave, it might be a shallow part of a lake or stagnate part of the river that stores heat longer than other parts. I have never had a problem with heat treatment on any fish - I think the key is massive aeration. Lower dissolved oxygen levels at higher temperatures.
As for salt, I have used 1 tsp per gallon on corydoras, who seem to have a high distaste for salt. At 1 1/4 tsp per gallon, corydoras start to not look well. My clown loaches do fine at 1 1/2 tsp per gallon. Never a reason to go over 1 1/2 tsp per gallon. Again, massive aeration is key. Acclimate slowly to salt (1/2 tsp per gallon every 8 hours; 1 degree F° every hour) I go to 87° and 1 1/4 tsp salt per gallon in any corydoras free tank.
Maintain heat and salt for 10 days after last seeing ich. Then reverse acclimate back to normal water parameters. If at any time your water drops below 86°, you have to start the clock over. This is where the supposed "super ich" come from. A few lucky tomites manage to hatch and find a host in the hour where your water was 85°.

Never add fish to a sick tank - asking for trouble.

Quarantine tanks can save you tons of money, frustration, and most importantly, the lives of your fish.

Always start with testing your water - Ammonia, Nitrite should be zero.

To those who prefer the chemical route, I am not saying it does not work; I am saying that for ich, I prefer heat and salt because it has always worked for me.


----------



## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Botiadancer said:


> ...*Most fish come from places where the waters hit the mid 80s for at least a very short period during the year. It might be an excessive heat wave, it might be a shallow part of a lake or stagnate part of the river that stores heat longer than other parts. *I have never had a problem with heat treatment on any fish - I think the key is massive aeration. Lower dissolved oxygen levels at higher temperatures...


Seriously?
The percentage of wild caught FW fish is very small......the vast majority (somewhere around 90% or more) are captive breed. They have never ever seen those kind of temperatures.

At those temperatures they are stressed, period. 


Like I stated before the key to all of this is prevention....
Places like Petsmart usually have central filtration systems......if you see any signs of Ich disease whatsoever in one tank, it's more than likely in others also. 

Call me lucky, but in the last 30 years I have never had a case of ICH in my main show aquariums.....and only a couple of times in the quarantine tank(s).


----------



## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

Buerkletucson said:


> Seriously?
> The percentage of wild caught FW fish is very small......the vast majority (somewhere around 90% or more) are captive breed. They have never ever seen those kind of temperatures.


Those shallow ponds in Florida or Southeast Asia are air conditioned and filled with chemicals? And the fish have adapted to rapid swings in pH and hardness and air and truck travel but lost their heat adaptability? Seriously??



Does everyone keep their tanks in the low 70s year round??



Prevention is always best. But the OP is past prevention....


----------



## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

See below...



Botiadancer said:


> Those shallow ponds in Florida or Southeast Asia are air conditioned and filled with chemicals? And the fish have adapted to rapid swings in pH and hardness and air and truck travel but lost their heat adaptability? Seriously??
> 
> Yep, pretty serious about it.......all those factors you list are stress factors and are to be avoided, or minimize, if at all possible.
> What part of 90% captive bred is hard to understand?
> ...


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't understand the heat treatment. Takes too long, fish have the ich longer, and continues to stress and/or kill the fish. All of my tanks are planted. Go beyond 10 days or so and you will have tanks of mush. Quick Cure attacks the protozoa much better than heat and does nothing to your biological filtration. I have never treated beyond 6 days.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm no fan of the salt or heat(and I don't think mg and formulin are natural).One note I just read on the heat treatment stated;"It is extremely important that you are medicating properly when you raise the tempature.The rise in tempature will shorten the life cycle and cause an increase in the rate of production of theront phase.If the tank has not been medicated properly this will lead to a faster rate of infection and increased chance of fish death".
Often by the time one actually see's the ich(a little late in the game/cycle) any added stress(heat,salt,meds) can be the last straw for the fish.It is for that reason I prefer meds so the treatment can be as short as possible.


----------



## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

Those shallow ponds in Florida or Southeast Asia are air conditioned and filled with chemicals? And the fish have adapted to rapid swings in pH and hardness and air and truck travel but lost their heat adaptability? Seriously??

"Yep, pretty serious about it.......all those factors you list are stress factors and are to be avoided, or minimize, if at all possible.
What part of 90% captive bred is hard to understand?"

But the question was in answer to your earlier quote that fish have never been exposed to higher temps. So... um..... Yeah sure?


Does everyone keep their tanks in the low 70s year round??

"As a matter of fact........my tanks are at 77F and don't vary by more than 1 degree all year."

Some people at 78°. Or 79°. Or 80°. Gap getting smaller. I intentionally let my tanks swing multiple degrees over the seasons as fish in any environment are exposed to that. 74° in the winter, up into low 80s in summer due to lack of air conditioning. 77° for all fish?

"Far cry from 87F with very little dissolved oxygen = stress. "

Short term. What part of massive aeration don't you understand?


The OP wanted advice on curing ich. Experience with heat treament. Experience with chemicals. He has both now from many posters. And hopefully has learned about quarantine tanks.

Jrman83 - good point - will not work with plants that don't like heat - which is just about all of them I'm guessing.


----------



## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Botiadancer said:


> Those shallow ponds in Florida or Southeast Asia are air conditioned and filled with chemicals? And the fish have adapted to rapid swings in pH and hardness and air and truck travel but lost their heat adaptability? Seriously??
> 
> "Yep, pretty serious about it.......all those factors you list are stress factors and are to be avoided, or minimize, if at all possible.
> What part of 90% captive bred is hard to understand?"
> ...


Sorry, but it's pretty tough to fight the law of physics.......you can "massive aeration" all you want, but at elevated temps like 87°F H2O will only hold so much oxygen. 
Significantly less than even 10°F cooler.

If you are unfortunate enough contract Ich in your tank, despite taking all precautions......I agree with others. 
Since any of the methods stress fish, IMHO I would take the quickest method for eradicating, which would seem to be the chemical route.

There are many products out there and some research would reveal the successful products vs those that are just advertising hype.


----------



## Botiadancer (Dec 30, 2013)

CHEMICAL FEATURES OF WATER
Oxygen Solubility in Fresh and Sea Water
Ambient Water Quality Criteria for Dissolved Oxygen
A catfish keepers guide to dissolved oxygen ? Catfishology ? Shane's World ? www.planetcatfish.com


----------



## Larimar (Apr 14, 2014)

Looks like many more opinions in my absence and I appreciate all of the information.

An update, I chose the heat treatment, just 84f. Clown loaches are caught in Indonesia. That's where my pet store gets them. Most are wild caught, breeding them is not really heard of in captivity. Clown loaches are recommended in water temperatures 78f-87f. So 84f was not stressful, quite the opposite. 

The heat along with air stones, and a water change every two days was successful. I would recommend this treatment for clowns to any person. 


Not only did they beat the ich permanently but they appeared more vibrant and grew.

The clowns became happier, dancing around for worms and becoming more social. 

I saw a huge change for the positive. I couldn't be happier. 

When I used meds at half dosage as recommended on the pack, the clowns were burned alive. I would definitely recommend natural cures when applicable. Clowns can definitely prosper with heat treatment.


----------



## Larimar (Apr 14, 2014)

Here's a photo of the happy clowns.


----------

