# Bolivian Rams and hard water, high PH



## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

I keep reading conflicting views on BRs and hard water. Some say they have to* have* soft and acidic water. Just as many others feel they can acclimate to hard, alkaline water.

In my area, the PH is 8.0 and an average of 32.50ppm hardness. Is this excessive? On the charts its listed as "moderately hard." Not nearly as bad as I thought it was.

I bought a BR a few weeks ago, and he hasn't colored up for me yet. Sometimes he's paler than other times. Gets along in his community tank just fine. He's 1.5" long so I'm assuming about half grown? He eats well, just about anything he's offered. He is out almost all of the time--never hides. I do faithful 25% water changes weekly. Do I need to be worried about my PH and hard water?


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

the bolivian is stressed hence the color or lack there of.

I keep mine at 84 degrees with a Ph of 5.8, the colors and overall quality of life for the fish are amazing.


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

84 degrees? Wow, I thought the Blue Rams were more inclined to like that high of a temp. I do have cories in there, so 84 is too hot for them. I'll have to try to find a middle ground. Perhaps 78? I've only had him about 3 weeks, so I was thinking maybe he'll color up when he's adjusted? I don't want to breed, but I don't want him uncomfotable either.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

corydoras dont mind that heat at all, they wont spawn at those temps but other then that they do just fine. I got over 5 dozen of em in 84 degrees with no issues and we are three years into it with them in that tank.


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

That's amazing. I've read they are not comfortable in anything over about 78. I guess you just have to take things with a grain of salt.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

For many fishes, whose original home was the Rainforests of South Amarica or West Africa, being kept in Hard, High ph water will result in dull colors. The easiest way to reduce your tank's ph and hardness is to graduallty (10% at a time) replace your tank's water with Distilled Water. Water that has been evaporated should also be replaced with Distilled Water (simulates rainfall).


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, the ram, needs super soft water and high temperatures to be in a tank close to its natural habitiat. Mikrogeophagus altispinosa, your Bolivian ram, comes from a very different habitat. It can deal with harder water (yours would be borderline but okay) and does not come from the blazing heat of the Llanos (savannah) in Colombia and Venezuela. It comes from more shaded forest regions with cooler water - 78 would be fine for it. It can live at ram heats, but it's not ideal. You shorten the life of a fish by keeping it too hot.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

your entire tank is not at 84, where most bolvians and corydoras live they are 78-82 range but in a tank there are different temp levels and on the bottom is the coolest, try it with a probe thermometer sometime, my 84 is at midlevel, its 86-88 on top due to lights and its in the upper 70's low 80's on the bottom. 
This is the 210 though so its much larger then most tanks. I run 4 300w heaters just to keep it at 84 but with my flow rate the water has plenty of time and plumbing to adjust the temp to the room temp which is at 79


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## seaecho (Jan 31, 2012)

You have eased my mind, Navigator. This is why I got the BR in the first place. I read they could adjust to a higher PH. I realize it would be* ideal *for me to have a lower PH, but I'm glad now that I decided on it instead of a Blue Ram, which would surely have been a disaster.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

A lot of blue rams waste away and live very short lives. They are easy to breed if you have the right water, and the fish farms breed them in enormous numbers, for sale into the 'wrong' water. 
I've bred at least 50 different rainforest dwarf species, but for me, ramirezi "rams" are really difficult fish. I'd never suggest them to new aquarists.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Im glad im not the only one noticing that, nav. I cant keep GBR's alive longer then a year and forget about EBR's they last mear months if that.

My argument is if you want it to thrive give it as close to natural as possible, if you get awrong water fish, acclimate and enjoy.

I got a buddy who breeds BR's,I was talking with him yesterday and he keeps his at 7.4ph, temp of 77,gh of 3 and a kh of 2 and they flourish and spawn quite profusely in this set up, but ive known him for years and I know he was having issues with too high and too low but got it just right about 2 years ago and has been very happy (and so have the local fish heads)since then. My stock comes from his tanks. I dont breed mine, I keep mine for color display so I got all males.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I had the luxury twice of getting wild rams directly from the Llanos. It is an extremely different fish from the domestic blues, etc. They are stockier, and very aggressive in a good way. Alert, friendly, bristly little things with a lot less colour than the domestics, but still good looks.
The colour and fin growth seems to be linked genetically to body shape, as I have never seen a domestic ram able to get the barrel chested look of a wild for more than a few weeks, while wilds have it for life. Domestics have great colour, but thin flanks and a really anemic behavior compared to wilds. I guess there are trade offs as people manipulate the genetics of fish to get them to sell. I find a key thing is changes in behavior (which is what I enjoy with fish). Wild bettas are endlessly prowling, lightning fast hunters, domestics are lumbering, slow fish; wild guppies dart and chase, domestics drag their tails like a fully clothed person walking out of a lake; wild rams are sparkplugs and domestics are limp and skinny. One thing that selective breeding hasn't done to any ramirezi is make them tough though.


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