# Salt and Freshwater combo



## heights

Hi everybody!!!!

I'm new to the hobby, I want to start an aquarium with both fresh and saltwater species. I plan to do this by putting in saltwater first and then slowly adding freshwater. Has anyone tried this?


:animated_fish_swimm


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## petlover516

welcome to the site! that will be quite hard and i wouldnt reccomend doing that. I have done it b4 it is very difficult. U must start with a SW tank. Use damsels as the subject fish. Over a period of at least 6 months slowly lower the salinity level to 0. After the damsels have acclimated well than u may start adding FW fish. Damsels are very aggressive and need alkaline water, just like rift valley cichlids. No other fish or coral will make it through, only damsels and gobies. Hope u may suceed. Would love to see pics!


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## Marty

Yea i agree with tyler.This is nearly impossibleto do.This is one reason i went with a cichlid tank.The fish have great colors..


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## Somethings_Fishy

hi guys! This is "Something Fishy" (cute, huh!?? my new boyfriend says I'm really creative  anyway, my lifemate Adam and I just got on here and we talked with one of our friends who has both fresh water and salt water fish in one tank, and he says he did it like this:

1) Get 2 tanks. 
2) start with the freshwater fish in 1 tank, and the saltwater fish in the other
3) every so slowly, only 1 part in 100 each day, start adding fresh to salt and salt to fresh
4) Based on evolution, both kids of fish will slowly adapt
5) This will take 50 days to reach "saltquilibrium" as he has termed it
6) with your 50/50 mixture, add both kinds of fish into one tank

Hard to believe, and I suggest you try it yourself, but this works. I was there yesterday and will be back later this week and can provide pictures.

I <3 you guys! thanks for the help!


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## Chickadee

Welcome to our forum and we do hope that you will like it here. While you have a project that is unusual I am sure you will find some who will want to discuss it on the forum with you in both the Freshwater and Saltwater areas of the forum.

I would do a lot of discussing this with some of the really fully experienced and long time fish keepers before trying the introductions of fish into unnatural habitats and see what they say.

Thank you for joining and we look forward to getting to know you better.

Rose


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## Somethings_Fishy

Chickadee said:


> Welcome to our forum and we do hope that you will like it here. While you have a project that is unusual I am sure you will find some who will want to discuss it on the forum with you in both the Freshwater and Saltwater areas of the forum.
> 
> I would do a lot of discussing this with some of the really fully experienced and long time fish keepers before trying the introductions of fish into unnatural habitats and see what they say.
> 
> Thank you for joining and we look forward to getting to know you better.
> 
> Rose


Hi Rose!

I see you have deleted a few of my posts here, and I hope I haven't offended anyone! I read your rules and guidelines, and I don't want to break any of them! 

I do hope you will allow us to discuss this very important topic of salt/fresh tanks, or "SFtanks" as I have dubbed them. I feel this is one of the few unexplored areas of water-animal keeping, or "WAK". I know I'm not an expert, but I have read lots of information on both forums and Wikipedia about fish, fishing, and evolution. I hope you keep this post and my future ones that will document my 1-50 part transformation of salt to fresh and fresh to salt. (STFAFTS)

Btw for anyone keeping track I am on day 3, and currently my fresh tank is 3parts salt, 97 parts fresh and my salt tank is 3 parts fresh and 97 parts salt.

tyvm, and godspeed Rose. Godspeed


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## petlover516

i hope im not going off track again, but don't use wikipedia! anyone can edit an article there, even as a joke! btw, any fish in your tank yet?


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## archer772

How about giving us a list of fish you are trying to do this with


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## heights

I am starting the project with a lot of fresh rock (i found many interesting rocks in the desert around my home), corals, blennies, oscars, angels, wrasses and lobsters.


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## Somethings_Fishy

archer772 said:


> How about giving us a list of fish you are trying to do this with


in the STF tank (salt to fresh) which is currently on part 4/50 on the way to "Saltqulibrium" contains:

(2) purple carpet anemone
(2) boxing crabs
(5-7) monkey shrimp, I can only find 5 at a time but I know I bought 7 - those little monkeys hide but I know they aren't dead because I haven't found them
(2) brown starfish that the monkey shrimp always play with
(4) angelfish
(1) blue grouper that I caught in the Atlantic ocean while vacationing in Myrtle Beach with my hubby and transported back in our used styrofoam beer cooler on the airplane, and no kidding he is still alive!

In the FTS (fresh to salt) tank, also on part 4/50 i have:

(2) oscar fish
(4) huge Plecos
(2) red texas cichlids that eat everything in sight
(1) puffer that's is really cool
(4) goldfish that likely won't be there in the morning

all my WA's (water animals) are in healthy condition and appear to be adjusting just fine to the slow change in their environment. If you check this article you can see that Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Evolution does in fact exist and my WA's are going through it as we speak. I will be taking some pictures soon to show you guys.


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## archer772

What type of salt are you useing and how are you checking the salinity? I will bet that your inverts will be dead before you get to the point you are trying to get to, most all puffers can handle brackish water so that one will probably make it, oscars have been known to handle slight brackish water and gold fish like some salt in there water so they stand a chance. I would really like to know what salt level you are shooting for and how you are checking it and the salt you are useing.


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## archer772

heights I was asking you the same things that I asked Somethings_Fishy. The corals will not make it or should I say 99.9% will not make it, you listed some fish but what ones are FW and SW. Evolution doesnt take place in months, it takes decades or better yet centuries, Somethings_Fishy your link is to an encyclopedia that explains what it is and that is all, you do relize that the animals cell structure needs to change dont you and do you really think that happens in the time frame you are talking about, you would need these animals to live long enough to reproduce in that environment and have viable off spring and then get to about 4-5 generations before you could try to call it successful. What do both of you consider the life span of the fish, invert and corals to be that you are trying this with???


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## Marty

Well this is not going to work.First of all out of the millions and millions of people who keep fish.You are always hearing the same thing.(I wish i had fresh water fish as pretty as those salt water fish)So you can rest assure that if this was possible we would be buying them today.Im sure their have been tons of people that have tried this and failed.And sadly been tons of life lost!


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## Alleykat0498

How about just buying an identical set up to your initial SW set up and push them together till they touch? This way you can sit in one place and see the best of both worlds.

And welcome to the forum...


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## archer772

I have seen a nice setup but it wouldnt be cheap and that was a 240 gallon cube 48x48x24 with glass siliconed down the middle with front side FW and the back side SW.


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## Chickadee

We would love to welcome you here, but could we please take the advice and questions to the correct areas of the forum so the members in general will know that they are there and respond to them. If they are posted here they will not receive as much attention. It is really important to see things in the correct area of the forum for the correct attention to be given to it. 

This area is devoted to welcoming members and getting to know them and expressing a nice welcoming message the other parts of the forum are for questions and information about advising members on tanks and problems. That is why I moved the posts in the first place and why I am going to have to close this if we cannot keep it to this now.

Please just use THIS area to welcome this member and use the other parts of the forum to ask questions and to give advice where the other members will give the questions more attention.

Rose


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## petlover516

there is really no forum related to this topic, and when i need to ask something that is isnt related to another topic, i post it here. and im gonna have to agree with archer. everything archer772 said is exactly what i said but those posts were deleted because they were not welcomey.


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## heights

When Einstein first posited his theory of evolution, people got all worked up and said it would never work. Next thing you knew, viola, time travel was possible.

I don't want to stir up more fuss here on the welcome board. I am a solid, loving, non-sectarian fish evolutionist.

Thanks for all the kind words. Pics to follow. Saltquilibrium is the future.


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## petlover516

please heights can u post a new thread in "Brackish tank discussions", as this isnt the thread to discuss this topic. yes einstein would predict things that nobody believed, but what u r doing is something that needs to be done at a slow steady period, and should be done only be attempted by the very experienced hobbyists.


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## heights

archer772 said:


> What type of salt are you useing and how are you checking the salinity? I will bet that your inverts will be dead before you get to the point you are trying to get to, most all puffers can handle brackish water so that one will probably make it, oscars have been known to handle slight brackish water and gold fish like some salt in there water so they stand a chance. I would really like to know what salt level you are shooting for and how you are checking it and the salt you are useing.


I'm aiming for something like this...

* Specific gravity: 1.025 sg
* pH: 7.8 - 8.1
* Calcium: 420 ppm
* Alkalinity: 8 - 9 dKH
* Nitrate: 1 ppm
* Phosphate: Undectable
* Magnesium: 1350 ppm
* Temperature: 79�- 81�F)

I'm not sure how to achieve this, I guess I'll just eyeball it. If it tastes too salty, I can adjust it later.


:fishGreen: :lobster:


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## archer772

This has got to be some kind of joke because you just gave the ideal levels for a reef tank except maybe PH should be up a point or 2 and there are NO FW fish that will live in there.



heights said:


> I'm aiming for something like this...
> 
> * Specific gravity: 1.025 sg
> * pH: 7.8 - 8.1
> * Calcium: 420 ppm
> * Alkalinity: 8 - 9 dKH
> * Nitrate: 1 ppm
> * Phosphate: Undectable
> * Magnesium: 1350 ppm
> * Temperature: 79�- 81�F)
> 
> I'm not sure how to achieve this, I guess I'll just eyeball it. If it tastes too salty, I can adjust it later.
> 
> 
> :fishGreen: :lobster:


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## heights

archer772 said:


> This has got to be some kind of joke because you just gave the ideal levels for a reef tank except maybe PH should be up a point or 2 and there are NO FW fish that will live in there.


I've got a bigger problem than the salinity....

My diamond goby doesn't seem well. He keeps eating sand!!! This has to be something serious. I'm going to shift him to the quarantine tank.

:Fish_bubble:


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## archer772

so you like playing games, why dont you just grow up


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## heights

archer772 said:


> so you like playing games, why dont you just grow up


this isn't a place to flame....how dare you!

everyone else here has been so nice. you make me want to give up on my grand experiment. but i will persevere, and i WILL combine salt and freshwater over 50 days and induce evolution in my nano reef. 

You admit that my specs are perfect, yet you're picking me apart. I don't get it.

You want higher saline, fine. Specific gravity, I've got that. PH, i can go either way.



:goldfish:
:angler_fish:


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## petlover516

Archer772-can't u be nice for a change?
Heights-diamond gobies are sand-sifters. this means that they stir up by eating the sand and than swallow any invertabrates in it. they later spit the sand out but swallow the inverts. btw heights-50 days is way to short for this to be done with any fish. 6 months is the bare minimum.


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## archer772

I hope you do give up on your experiment because then that way you wont kill all those FW animals. When I said you like playing games it was about your sand sifting diamond gobie. I am just afraid that a new person to the hobby is going to listen to you and kill everything that try to do because you have already given terrible advise about adding several fish to a 10 gallon and see what happens.


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## heights

petlover516 said:


> Archer772-can't u be nice for a change?
> Heights-diamond gobies are sand-sifters. this means that they stir up by eating the sand and than swallow any invertabrates in it. they later spit the sand out but swallow the inverts.


Thank you, Petlover.

I called my LDS and they told me that my goby is behaving normally. In fact, they verified everything you said.

They are going to come by tomorrow, they are bringing me some kind of book.

Thanks again.

:sharkp2:


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## tamableanimal

Archer there is no need to be mean to those whom can change basic biology on a whim. This person is either trying to raise the blood preassure of real aquarist or is just a mo_ _ n. You are trying to confuse this person with fact when it is obvious that they live in a fantasy world. Short of guppies and a few others that can go both ways for short periods of time, the vast majority can only tolerate it for short periods and even then it causes stress to there systems. Renal failure along with kidney failure or disease will kill most if not all of the fresh water conversions in less than 6 months. 
Oh yeah Welcome to the board


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## heights

tamableanimal said:


> Archer there is no need to be mean to those whom can change basic biology on a whim. This person is either trying to raise the blood preassure of real aquarist or is just a mo_ _ n. You are trying to confuse this person with fact when it is obvious that they live in a fantasy world. Short of guppies and a few others that can go both ways for short periods of time, the vast majority can only tolerate it for short periods and even then it causes stress to there systems. Renal failure along with kidney failure or disease will kill most if not all of the fresh water conversions in less than 6 months.
> Oh yeah Welcome to the board


I have been working on this grand experiment for almost a week now, I can't see how someone with 4 posts is qualified to comment.

I will have my expert aquarist avatar soon enough, i have reason to believe. My salt to fresh/fresh to salt (STFFTS) project is providing me with a lifetime of learning in a very short time.

Just as fish can "learn" to acclimate to a new salinity, I will learn and grow as a caring, motivated, loving, curious, resourceful water animal keeper (WAK).

urple-fish:urple-fish::crab::barb-fish:


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## archer772

Post count means nothing, this man has read and studied more marine biology than what you have been trying to keep fish IMO. Fish cant learn to adapt to different water it is part of there biology and that is something you cant change


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## aspects

heights said:


> I have been working on this grand experiment for almost a week now,


BAHAHAHAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


someone ban this clown already


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## archer772

aspects said:


> BAHAHAHAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
> 
> 
> someone ban this clown already


I agree 110% but watch out because there is a person on here that will try to get you banned


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## heights

archer772 said:


> I agree 110% but watch out because there is a person on here that will try to get you banned


As a thoughtful, inquisitive, sharing, open aquarist, I have never advocated banning anyone. I am disappointed that you want me off the board.

I must reflect. Now I require repose.

:animated_fish_swimm


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## aspects

if this kind of topic is allowed to continue for so long, im not sure i really mind. this kid is clueless and has been informed numerous times by very experienced people that what he/she is suggesting is not only ridiculous and not possible, but detrimental to the fish. such ignorance is only condemning these poor fish to death. rather then removing and editing posts giving proper information to the OP, the moderators should have removed this thread or edited it from the beginning, so as not to allow such poor information to be circulated through this otherwise helpful and informative forum. these ridiculous suggestions will only add to the tons of poor information on the web, and in turn cause the death of even more fish that could have been saved with proper information.


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## heights

aspects said:


> if this kind of topic is allowed to continue for so long, im not sure i really mind. this kid is clueless and has been informed numerous times by very experienced people that what he/she is suggesting is not only ridiculous and not possible, but detrimental to the fish. such ignorance is only condemning these poor fish to death. rather then removing and editing posts giving proper information to the OP, the moderators should have removed this thread or edited it from the beginning, so as not to allow such poor information to be circulated through this otherwise helpful and informative forum. these ridiculous suggestions will only add to the tons of poor information on the web, and in turn cause the death of even more fish that could have been saved with proper information.


I am not "recommending" anything. I am trying something new and bold. 

They told Charles Darwin not to go on his grand expedition. Fittingly, he is my hero. Are you suggesting that you've never had a fish die?

I may have to sacrifice something in my quest for learning, fun, adventure, and love.

I ask you again sir, desist in your petty crusade against me.

For all that is decent, I am a new hobbyist. 

:dont_tap_the_glass::shark_fin:


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## archer772

A new hobbiest should NEVER try to expierement with liveing things instead they should study the facts of the biology of the animals they are condeming to death. aspects it sounds like you know what you are talking about and that is why there are some members that will hate you and try to get you banned


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## aspects

its neither new nor bold. rather its cruel and borderline ignorant. while acclimation between close salinity ranges are possible, (though even then it will shorten the life of the fish), something like youre suggesting, is not possible. its funny you should bring up darwin who is the forerunner in the avocation of evolution, and even go on to name him as your hero, when you apparently have not read in to his doctrine. evolution does not happen overnight, nor will it over the course of a few weeks in your tank. youre talking about changing a millenia of natural selection in a few weeks time. 

and as a new hobbyist, you should listen to the more experienced who are informing you that not only is what youre doing cruel to the fish, but also, NOT GOING TO WORK. if you intend to be serious about the hobby at all, you may want to start by taking in information, rather then try a science experiment. in the end everyone wins.


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## heights

archer772 said:


> A new hobbiest should NEVER try to expierement with liveing things instead they should study the facts of the biology of the animals they are condeming to death. aspects it sounds like you know what you are talking about and that is why there are some members that will hate you and try to get you banned


I'd like to add one note. I have added a refugium to my set up. I care deeply about my fish.

Please support me by responding to my posts. 

:two_plus_two_equals


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## archer772

We are responding and what you are trying to do WILL NOT WORK plain and simple and the animals will suffer and die so please dont do this.


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## heights

archer772 said:


> We are responding and what you are trying to do WILL NOT WORK plain and simple and the animals will suffer and die so please dont do this.


When i post my pics, this week, everyone will calm down and see how well things are going.

I am currently at 7 parts salt/93 parts fresh in my freshwater tank, and 7 parts fresh/93 parts salt in my saltwater tank.

I really appreciate all the interest and feedback. Any takers out there if I start a Twitter feed about this?

:fishRed::fishGreen::tropical2::bear-caught-fish:


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## Somethings_Fishy

archer and aspects - 

I thought this forum was about mutual respect and the freedom to exchange ideas. Lord knows I have suffered enough persecution due my lifestyle choices and I don't feel that progressive fish thinking (PFT) should be the subject of your closed-minded hate directed at me and heights.

I have been communicating with heights off of this forum, turns out we both live in las vegas and we have met for tea to discuss our various techniques in this new form of WAK-ing. (Water Animal Keeping). We are both passionate about achieving "Saltquilibrium" and although I don't know the technical aspects very well, he does. 

To address your thoughts on evolution, realize that fish evolve at an amazing rate. This is simply fact. To stifle our work here is against everything this forum stands for. 

I hope you change your tone to that of support. Godspeed heights and all other well wishers.


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## aspects

PFT? WAKing? Saltquilibrium? are you serious?
in fact, dont answer that, because if you are, that just means youre more deluded then i will be able to comprehend.

youre right, the forum is for exchanging ideas and iformation, but thats not what youre doing. youre intentionally providing false and detrimental information, and furthermore, not only aiding, but actually taking part in the torture of the very animals you claim to care so much for. 

and dont banter on about mutual respect, when you both obviously have no respect for the fish you keep. those fish have specific requirements, and not only do you fail to meet them, but you intentionally torture them with adverse conditions for nothing more then your own personal enjoyment. maybe its YOU who should think about respect.

i feel sorry for both of your fish. you cant revolutionize the hobby by making up ridiculous and unfounded terms and attempting to singlehandedly trick millions of years of evolution overnight. it has nothing to do with being closed minded, and everything to do with being realistic and scientifically supported. 

both of you should take a trip to your nearest local library.


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## Somethings_Fishy

aspects said:


> PFT? WAKing? Saltquilibrium? are you serious?
> in fact, dont answer that, because if you are, that just means youre more deluded then i will be able to comprehend.
> 
> youre right, the forum is for exchanging ideas and iformation, but thats not what youre doing. youre intentionally providing false and detrimental information, and furthermore, not only aiding, but actually taking part in the torture of the very animals you claim to care so much for.
> 
> and dont banter on about mutual respect, when you both obviously have no respect for the fish you keep. those fish have specific requirements, and not only do you fail to meet them, but you intentionally torture them with adverse conditions for nothing more then your own personal enjoyment. maybe its YOU who should think about respect.
> 
> i feel sorry for both of your fish. you cant revolutionize the hobby by making up ridiculous and unfounded terms and attempting to singlehandedly trick millions of years of evolution overnight. it has nothing to do with being closed minded, and everything to do with being realistic and scientifically supported.
> 
> both of you should take a trip to your nearest local library.


Let me respond to you as cordial as I can be. Obviously you are not affording me and heights the same respect, but as my lifemate says, I am the bigger man.

1) PFT's maybe need their own forum. Innovation comes after experimentation. It is arrogant to think that we know everything there is to know about WAK-ing, with nothing left to be discovered

2) Providing false information? In what way? I am simply documenting what I am doing with my FTSASTF system, and will be reporting all results here. I thought that was what this forum was for, to show how you are WAK-ing and to exchange ideas. I was not under the assumption that no new ideas were allowed. This is reminiscent of my grandfather's time spent in German detention centers in the 40's. Freedom to experiment and tell other WAK'ers how I am innovating is my right as an American.

3) I am appalled by your tone towards my fish. Do you think I want them to die? Or do you think my goal is to achieve Saltquilibrium and enjoy all my species living in harmony for years to come? Do you think I am some sort of a sadist? I am a Progressive Fish Thinker, or PFT, and I plan EVOLVING my species into ones that can handle the conditions. I'm sorry if you don't believe in evolution, but I do. And I will end this post by saying I have a few chemical tricks up my sleeve to speed up evolution and make the environment more hospitable for my water animals. I of course have not told you the entire process, merely the basics. A full report would be enough information to fill it's own website. 

Also all of my fish in both tanks are alive and well and I am on part 6/50 of the FTSASTF process. The oscar devoured 3 goldfish today, he seems happy.


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## heights

aspects said:


> without responding to all of your ridiculous ideas, i will answer just one.
> 
> 
> 
> according to your suggestions, as well as your repeated refusal to accept information from seasoned fish keepers and science itself... yes, i do.


And what if I told you that lionfish, formerly found only as inhabitants of balmy tropical waters, have now successfully acclimatized to the frigid climes of the North Atlantic....?

_NOAA/NCCOS Fisheries Biologist Paula Whitfield's classic shot of a lionfish has become so popular that is the veritable lionfish shot seen around the worldLocal divers off the coast of North Carolina were not expecting to see what they found on that August day in 2002: exotic and beautiful lionfish, common to the warm waters of the western Pacific but non-native and unknown off the Carolina coast.

A year later, scientists from NOAA's Center for Coastal Fisheries and Habitat Research had documented 19 different lionfish sightings at eight different locations along the North Carolina shelf. And lionfish by then were being documented also off Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina, with juvenile lionfish showing up off Bermuda and as far north as Long Island, N.Y.


_

How far a leap is it from that news to SFTFS? QED, my good man, QED.

:fish-top:


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## aspects

along with CERTAIN species of lionfish (not true with volitans or sphex), as well as some groupers, like the bumblebee grouper, there are maybe a handful of SW fish that can be slowly acclimated. these species are already studied and documented. 


again, back to the library


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## DarkRevoultions

If your putting in Salt and Fresh water.. that could be a little hard...

Unless your wanting to have a brackish tank..

I am not sure if Damsels could survive in a brackish tank but they might want a salt water tank.

You can always try mollies, or guppies. Mollies can live in fresh water for their entire life... or salt water too.

I've done it for a long time now..


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## MediaHound

We now have a new rule here: 


> 23. Animal cruelty. Any post or thread that endorses animal cruelty will not be tolerated. You risk your account being terminated for endorsing animal cruelty. While we realize that improper advice is one thing, animal cruelty is another. Aside from medical reasons that warrant euthanasia, you may not post about nor teach people how to intentionally kill or otherwise be cruel to animals. In addition, science experiments endorsing questionable activities of animal cruelty are not allowed. This is your warning.


I kindly advise that, moving forward, it is adhered to. AquariumForum.com Rules
ctopus:


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## archer772

Thank You MediaHound. I am sorry if I got a little out of hand in this thread


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## DarkRevoultions

MediaHound said:


> We now have a new rule here:
> I kindly advise that, moving forward, it is adhered to. AquariumForum.com Rules
> ctopus:


I'm not in trouble right? xD


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## Chickadee

I would kindly suggest that other than welcome posts we close the discussion.

Thank you so much.

Rose


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## heights

Chickadee said:


> I would kindly suggest that other than welcome posts we close the discussion.
> 
> Thank you so much.
> 
> Rose


There's been a tragedy in my tank. Oh my.

More later.

:heniochus:


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## heights

heights said:


> There's been a tragedy in my tank. Oh my.
> 
> More later.
> 
> :heniochus:


Blue (R.I.P.)

My beloved green mandarin, "blue," passed away this morning. He went peacefully.

He will be missed.

In lieu of flowers, please make a donation to your LFS.


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## heights

petlover516 said:


> PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't want to hear anymore of this FW/SW combos that make no sense!! I can't bare to read all this! If both of u are going to continue to blabber about a horrid science experiment than go to some other forum. all us members don't want to hear the lives of these poor fish being taken!!!


:goldfish::goldfish:
Because of my recent loss; i am going to suspend my FSSTF efforts until I can do further research into the issue.

Anyone interested in following this on Twitter?

THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!

:angler_fish:


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## DarkRevoultions

heights said:


> :goldfish::goldfish:
> Because of my recent loss; i am going to suspend my FSSTF efforts until I can do further research into the issue.
> 
> Anyone interested in following this on Twitter?
> 
> THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!
> 
> :angler_fish:


Ugh, please can someone close this thread??


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## petlover516

yes please. and for both something fishy and heights-how about researching a little more into a normal tank, and we will all help u out if u do just do some type of regular tank


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