# Golden mystery snail unable to walk!



## XoCheryloX

Hi all. For the past few weeks, I have been stumped by my golden mystery snail. I apologize for the length of this post!
A little background: she lives in a 10 gallon with three guppies, an otocinclus, a tiny nerite snail, and one ghost shrimp. This appears to be the comfortable number for the tank. The parameters are testing normally (no nitrites, normal ammonia, etc), save for elevated nitrates recently. I have been managing this with weekly 10% water changes and using Prime. The tank is 8 months old. The tank is filtered with a Fluval filter. The fish are not having any issues and both the shrimp and nerite snail are thriving. She did live with another mystery snail who passed away recently after an extended period of deep retraction. The tank has two thriving plants and is kept at ~72 degrees.
My little one is constantly slightly protruding from her shell. She has not actually walked in quite some time. It almost appears as if she is unable to stretch her foot out properly. Her shell definitely shows wear and damage (poor shell growth it appears), which I have attempted to remedy by providing cuttlebone. She is disinterested in it - in fact, in order to get her to eat, I have to put a portion of an algae disc directly in front of her. At that point, she is able to stretch slightly and eat it. She will eagerly stick herself out when being interacted with or if placed in fresh water. When she does try to walk, it appears almost as if her shell tips over on her and makes it impossible. I have, believe it or not, brought her to a veterinarian for an opinion. Unfortunately, there is little to no information on snail illnesses, and I have found absolutely no information on what I am experiencing. I had thought initially it might be edema due to old age (though her age is unknown to me), however I know with edema they can continue to function. I am concerned she is suffering but do not want to euthanize her without exhausting all options. She used to lay eggs on the lid of the tank daily and she was such a joy to watch scurry around. I feel just awful for her. I have attached a picture to give an idea of how she generally is hanging out. I know it is not a great angle, but I didn't want to disturb her this morning.


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## chenowethpm

Hello, my only suggestion for you is maybe do more than 10% water change weekly. Most successful keepers are doing at least 50% a week. That will keep your nitrates in check. Also the only normal ammonia level In a cycled aquarium is zero.


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## XoCheryloX

Thank you for the response. I say "low" because I have had peculiar, random spikes twice since starting the tank - once in the beginning (I was not warned about cycling the tank first and assured the fish would be fine) and once a few months later. 50% isn't too much? I was told anything more than 10% weekly would compromise the biological filter and stress out the inhabitants. I'm willing to learn!


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## Farm

A snail of her size requires her calcium intake both through her water and her nutrition. Her shell is degrading due to the poor (get to that in a minute) water quality and the poor nutritional intake. Algae tabs are not a complete source of nutrition. Get some spinach leaves wash thoroughly, run hot water over about 3 of them for a minute or so to slightly blanch them and make them a tad bit limp. Clip them to the side of the tank or a place that she can easily access them. She will sit on them and absorb and eat! This can be a start. Remove them after 8 hours and provide fresh. do not leave in tank to degrade. She will also like blanched until soft broccoli florets once she is stronger but for now the spinach is the easiest for her. And dark leafy greens that provide high calcium and iron she can have. Avoid high sugar treats but they do enjoy bits of melon but only leave in tank for an hour or so then remove. They love it every once in a while! If she is not too far gone you will see her shell regenerate but it will look strange for a very long time. Now on your tank water. The 10% per week is definitely too little and very soon now you will have something I have seen referred to as "old tank" but really it is just a depletion or a "using up of" all your good stuff in your water that the fish and plants and snails need for their health. Mystery snails when in good health poo a lot, and carry a heavier biological load, really demanding a more rigorous cleaning schedule. However even without them I would follow a routine more like ... change out 50% of your water today replacing with temperature matched and conditioned (dechlorinator) water. Replace the water gently. If you are nervous about it then stop at the halfway mark and wait 15 minutes to allow the fish to adjust a bit and then continue on until full. Then, believe it or not.... I would do another 50% change again within the next half an hour but no longer. Just flush all that old water out of that tank and get some new nutrient rich water into it. I think you will be quite happy with your results. Then next week do a 25% water change surface clean only your substrate. The next week 25% water change deep vac 1/2 your substrate. The next week 25% water change surface vac only. Now your back to your 50% water change again. This should work nicely for a 10g. with those occupants. You will not have an adverse affect on your Nitrogen cycle with this. Not sure what your water hardness is where you live but if your water is too soft or run through a water softener (salt) then you will need to think about that. Another product to consider besides the cuttlebone for snails is Wonder Shells. They sell the original product from AAP (American Aquarium Products) are wonderful or they have the spin off products sold at different places that work as well but are different... maybe check those out? Hope any of this helps and good luck whatever route you choose to take! 

Edit: If you do follow this once you hit the next 50% change only do one of them not two. Also, during the 50% do a deep gravel vac of the other side of your substrate.


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## majerah1

Your bacteria is mostly in the substrate and filter, so it is reasonable to do up to 90% if you wanted. 50% is about normal for most keepers.


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## Gizmo

+1 on the water changes. I've had a 10G for years and I do 50% weekly (on Sundays), and my tank inhabitants are all very happy.


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## Farm

I also do large changes so I do agree with you all but for some people this seems very anxiety producing until they see how comfortable their fish become!  75% is my max and then I only reload half way and then wait my bit o minutes.... why you may be thinking??? Because this is one of my one oddities I have come up with throughout the years that works for me. I only spout what I do myself.  I see I was a bit long winded earlier... my apologies.

Edit: I only change out 75% if their seems to be a need for it. I generally change out 50% once or twice a month on all my tanks and 25 to 35% the odd week.... unless more is needed. I am not a business I am just a hobbyist with too many tanks!


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## XoCheryloX

Hi all - thank you for the advice. I will begin changing the water in larger amounts from now on. For the time being, I have my little lady separated from the tank. I have provided her with a blanched spinach leaf, as directed. She sticks her head and oxygen tube out and peeks around, but still cannot walk. Her foot looks, for lack of a better explanation, like a mostly closed fist. I can see the soft part underneath but she cannot seem to stretch it out and move around. Has anyone experienced anything like this before? I have tried everything I have been able to find - if I keep her out of water for a little while, her overall body swelling decreases and she can close into her shell almost completely, but still cannot walk. I have tried to "hand feed" her by holding food directly to her mouth, but she doesn't seem to like that much. She still interacts, but I am deeply concerned that she is suffering.


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## Farm

I would think she is uncomfortable but she will heal given appropriate care hopefully. Have you used any products in your tank that are high sodium or copper based? if not then it must be the water quality alone. Pristine water in that aquarium and keeping her in the heated tank is important as well as a cooler temp will slow her metabolism slowing her healing process. If she is that weak perhaps boil some water in a cup and drop the leaf in for a minute or so to really make it limp and make it easier for her to chew into. Poor little thing. You will be surprised at how they rebound once the problem is corrected. 

Edit: Just an after thought here..... I know you need to work on your water but could she have gotten stuck to your filter intake at any point? Are you running a super high power hob? I have seen these kill snails... if so, cover the intake area with a fluval pre filter sponge they fit most hob intakes. Just trying to brainstorm! Good luck!


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## XoCheryloX

She has not gotten stuck in my filter. I actually got a new filter after this issue arose because my last one died. She is being kept in a container by herself currently with frequent full water changes. I am keeping the water warm and comfortable and providing her with the limp spinach leaves. I see nibbles but no bites out yet. My veterinarians are consulting with other vets to see if anyone has any idea on what is going on specifically and if any medication could correct the issue. For now, hopefully it is just a water and malnutrition issue that can be corrected. She is such a sweet little interactive thing. Thank you again for the advice. I sincerely appreciate it and will let you all know if any of the vets have any ideas, in case someone encounters this issue in the future.


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## XoCheryloX

Just an update - my little lady is about the same. I have been keeping her in shallow water as anything covering her causes her to float. She is creating a lot of slime. If the water is just covering her body and not her shell, she will walk small amounts. We did a cytology by pressing her body onto some slides and sent it out for analysis. The results came back as septic suppurative inflammation, compatible with a bacterial infection. The microscopic description is as follows: "Slides contain occasional to moderate numbers of degenerate, often poorly preserved leukocytes and many mixed bacterial rods and cocci amid a basophilic proteinaceous background. Bacteria are present both intracellularly and extracellularly. No atypical cells are seen. The presence of intracellular bacterial organisms is compatible with a bacterial infection. Bacterial culture and sensitivity testing can be considered to further identify the agents and help guide therapy. Septic suppurative inflammation may be initiated by trauma or foreign body penetration." I know that septic supprative inflammation in other living things generally is bad news. I have considered the idea that there was some kind of trauma or something stuck in the middle of her foot causing her to curl it up. What I have read regarding bacterial infections in apple snails also does not appear to be good news. Just waiting on the vet's input now.


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## Farm

Thank you for posting that. You think something poked her foot? Interesting. Would like to know what medication they put her on.


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## XoCheryloX

It is just one of my personal theories (there are a few!) - she seems almost like she is protecting the soft, sensitive part of her foot by closing the edges around it as best she can. We may never know....however, we decided to go the route of a culture to see if we can pinpoint exactly what bacteria is causing the issue. She is starting to have bowel movements again, which I think might be a good sign. The culture takes 5-7 days to come back in. Our hope is that even if we can't pull her through this, the information might be beneficial if someone else experiences this as there really isn't much info out there I've noticed. I'll keep you in the loop. I know that there isn't much information in terms of antibiotic use in snails - we'll just have to see! For now, she remains interactive and does not appear to be suffering. Thank you for all of your assistance.


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## XoCheryloX

Hi all - I have some very unfortunate news. My little lady lost her battle against her illness today. Last night, I found her looking relatively pale and minimally responsive. I brought her into the vet's office and with stimulation and extra warmth, she began to move around. She was acting strangely in her movements, but seemed okay. We discussed starting her on antibiotics before the culture came back and decided to give her another day. This morning, she had retracted into her shell with her foot slightly sideways. She was minimally responsive but would not come back out. She has not retracted in months. This afternoon, I checked in on her and she was gone. Her body was wiggly in her shell and there was no response. We decided to give her some euthanasia solution to make sure that she was gone as it was apparent there was no pulling her back from this at this point. The culture results are still pending, but I will be sure to post them when I have them back. Just wanted to let everyone know.


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## Gizmo

Sorry for your loss


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## Farm

Awww. Sorry to hear that. Yes, I would like to know the test results. Thank you for being so thorough as you are correct we have such little information available to us for our little friends.


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## XoCheryloX

The preliminary report has come back so far as Aeromonas hydrophila - 3+. It is still pending, so I am not sure if there is still more bacteria they are identifying or if they are finishing the report of medications the bacteria can be treated with/is resistant to. From what I have been reading, it appears that this makes sense with the cytology results. It also appears that this news would not have been good news even if I had gotten it earlier. When the final report is in, I will be able to discuss it with the doctors to see what they think and we can "close the book" so to speak. We also did a necropsy after we were certain she had passed and found that one of her kidneys was severely enlarged. The remainder of her, to the best of our abilities to tell, appeared to be normal. We discussed sending the kidney out for biopsy, but decided against it because it would not likely have yielded anything more than what we had found on cytology and culture, and it would obviously not have changed the outcome. I'm still pretty bummed about the passing of the little lady, as she was my "hospice patient" for quite some time now. I may get another little one after the holidays. We'll see. As a side note, what I find interesting about this bacteria is that in fish, it causes abdominal swelling. I had had to euthanize one of my guppies months back because he had sudden and severe abdominal swelling with difficulty swimming. We had assumed it may have been dropsy. I wonder if it was instead the Aeromonas hydrophila manifesting in such a way.


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## XoCheryloX

The final results came back as Aeromonas hydrophila - 3+ and Enterobacter cloacae - 3+. Because she is no longer with us, it can't really be said how she would have fared with antibiotics, had we gotten the culture back sooner. I know there is minimal information on medicating snails as well. We had discussed using Amoxicillin, but the culture ended up coming back that both of these particular strains are resistant to Amoxi. The Aeromonas was additionally resistant to Tetracycline, while the Enterobactor was resistant to Enrofloxacin and Cephalexin. Just wanted to end the case of my little snail's illness. Hopefully this will help someone, somewhere, someday out if their snail is ill. My best advice is to try and locate a doctor that sees exotic animals. They are few and far between, but I was blessed with doctors that were willing to seek out information. Hopefully no one has to encounter this issue. My little lady put up a good fight and she is sorely missed.


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