# 28 Gallon Bowfront... needs something



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

A couple weeks ago I got a Marineland 28 gallon euro kit with a biowheel filter and cartridge, a cover, and a light. I bought a 100 watt tetra heater. I let the temperature stabilize and then started using Nutrafin cycle using their directions for a new aquarium. I added three Giant Danios the next day. I had also bought an API liquid Master Test kit. After a little less than a week there was no ammonia left, and I didn't have any nitrites from the beginning. The only thing was the Ph, it was at like 7.6, maybe a little higher. I bought Jungle brand tabs that dissolve to get neutral Ph. It worked ok other than how cloudy it made the tank, it only lasted a day or two (the cloudiness). It says the Ph should remain neutral for several weeks... then I guess I have to use the tabs again. 

A couple days ago I added two more Giant Danios, so now I have five total. 

Yesterday I added five tiger barbs, and two ghost shrimp.

The danios seem to dominate the feeding time, but the barbs are getting some food still. How much should I be feeding them?

I am not really sure if I should get rid of the danios. The two bigger ones which are probably 3-3.5" like to chase around the little ones. When I first put the tiger barbs in they chased them a little, but they havent since then. They dont bother the ghost shrimp at all. 

In the next week or two I want to get five neon tetras. 

It just seems like I need to do something else, but I dont know what...


----------



## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

i have 4 giant danios in with 10 black skirt tetras and yes the danios are much faster than the tetras, i have 2 lids on the top of the tank and i just drop alittle food in one side first and let the danios get theres first then i drop some in the other side for the tetras, they both swim around getting both sides but they all get some, the tetras get more than floats to the bottom to eat


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

What was the complete cycling time for the tank? (Some tanks can take 6 weeks or longer). Things seem fine then all of a sudden the ammonia and nitrites can spike. (I was just trying to figure out the timing from your post). The fish you have (and want) are fine, but I wouldn't add any more until the tank has completely cycled. (If the tank is mature, and I read wrong, sorry, disregard, lol).


----------



## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

I am with Holly,if this is a new set up with new water and gravel adding fish at the rate you are you are in for a big crash and possibly sick or dead fish. Patience grasshopper!!!


----------



## Bowbass (Mar 23, 2011)

gat896 said:


> A couple weeks ago I got a Marineland 28 gallon euro kit with a biowheel filter and cartridge, a cover, and a light. I bought a 150 watt tetra heater. I let the temperature stabilize and then started using Nutrafin cycle using their directions for a new aquarium. I added three Giant Danios the next day. I had also bought an API liquid Master Test kit. After a little less than a week there was no ammonia left, and I didn't have any nitrites from the beginning. The only thing was the Ph, it was at like 7.6, maybe a little higher. I bought Jungle brand tabs that dissolve to get neutral Ph. It worked ok other than how cloudy it made the tank, it only lasted a day or two (the cloudiness). It says the Ph should remain neutral for several weeks... then I guess I have to use the tabs again.
> 
> A couple days ago I added two more Giant Danios, so now I have five total.
> 
> ...




The fish you are choosing are kind of on the extremes as far as compatibility and activity. The giant danios are say like playful great dane puppies. Bouncing around and playing, teasing and chasing, and sometimes they will pester the smaller fish tiger barbs in this case. They will rule the top parts of the tank unless they are following food or picking on a sickly or weak fish. The tiger barbs are lets say a cocker puppies, the great danes will run around with all the that activity and they would get some food but most likely it's the left overs or scraps that was missed or left after the great danes ate all they wanted. The tiger barbs would hold there on for a while and might even do O.K. because they stay mostly in the middle region of the tank and lower sections middle. I think it's safe to say that while they would do o.k. they would never really thrive. The neons are slow, timid, kinda jumpy, not assertive and down right delicate old show poodles. They will not last at all. If they do last any amount of time you will never see the beauty of there color or habits. They will not get any food in fact the danios at full size will probably think they are a meal also. The tiger barbs don't belong with the neons either in my opinion.The water conditions may also be a problem if you are trying for a natural looking biotope. Three totally differant types and differant needs. Your fish store ( if they told you these were ma good choice for your tanks) should be ashamed of them selves. If in fact this is still fairly new to you they are suppose to guide you. Allot of hobbiest eventually give up or keep the one or to less than attractive fish that survived because there fish kept dying. Allot of fish stores give you all the set up direction so you will buy more things from them. Some of will tell you about fish compatibility and others just assune you know what you are doing or there part time employees that don't know any better or just don't care.
That's another topic entirely.
Good luck. My advice is decide if you want fast attractive active fish, fish that are not quite as active and lastly beautiful conversation starters. 

"One mans tropical fish is another mans bait"
I'm sure somebody will differ to my opinion and advice..
Be blessed ,
Steve "Bowbass" Bowman
Update on Steve


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The very first thing I would do is stop adding ph change products. You don't need it. Those fish should be fine in your tap water as long as they are acclimated prior to putting them in your tank.

The other thing is there is no such thing as a cycle in a bottle. I would be very skeptic if you're saying that your tank cycled that fast. I hope that you are still performing tests for ammonia, especially at the rate at which your are adding fish. The tank is too small to add at the rate at which you are adding. Test today for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Ok I did a water test and my pH is at like 7.4, my ammonia is a little less than 0.25, my nitrite is at 0, and my nitrate is at like 2.0.

So... should I find someone to take the danios? And I should stop worrying about the pH so much? 

I really like the tiger barbs so I think I am going to get my other fish around those. Could someone give me some good ones to go with those? I know there are like green tiger barbs, and albino, etc.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, stop worrying about the ph. Check it periodically, but don't do anything unless you find it is fluctuating up and down a lot.


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> The other thing is there is no such thing as a cycle in a bottle. I would be very skeptic if you're saying that your tank cycled that fast.



I use "Cycle" with my tank. I realize that since it is not a refrigerated product, there isn't much 'live' bacteria in it, but there is still some stuff that does good for the tank. I use it every water change and also when adding new plants or critters to the tank, (which isn't happening at the moment since I'm full). I found my tank cycled _slightly_ faster than with out it. It's also helping to feed the beneficial bacteria in the tank I believe. 

I wouldn't advise using it for the time it says on the bottle and then add fish though, as jrman said. It won't completely cycle the tank on it's own. Only time and proper cycling methods will do that. (I just found it helps _a little_ with each water change, putting a little good bacteria/bacteria products into the new water).


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have nothing against using them, other than they are mis-leading. The product you use may or may not help as you say. Just can't really know one way or the other. You just sort of have to push the "I believe" button on these products. As long as they are not depnded on and made the single point of failure, then no harm in using them.


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

*i/a* Very true. Not to be depended on at all. (I just use mine as "extra security" lol. I figure, if it's not hurting, why not?) 

As for Barbs, green barbs are very pretty. List of freshwater aquarium fish species - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If you scroll down this page, you will find Barbs, (just pas all the Cichlids). Some can get quite large, so make sure you choose ones that will fit your tank.


----------



## giddetm (Apr 30, 2011)

Here is a list you can look at. I used to have a grid that had compatability on it if I can find it I pass it on.

Community Tank Type 6  Mild Cichlids


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Just to be clear... I know that you cant just buy a cycle product and put it in and and tank is cycled.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with Ben,no more PH products.I would hold off a week or two before adding anyone else,just to give the filter time to get used to the bioload you have now.You can have a perfectly cycled tank,add a whole bagfull of new fish and then end up with dead fish wondering what happened,so take it slow.I didnt see any plants listed,have you decided not to get any or?I suggest that you should get some hardy ones just to help with nutrients in the tank,and to add security to the inhabitants.If you decide to rehome the danios,just remember good tank mates for the tiger barbs will be anything that can move fast with no long flowey fins.This of course leaves any betta out,but you could possibly get a dwarf or sunset gourami for the top level.They can book it when they want,and also can hold their own with the tigers.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

I have all artificial plants. I have 2 large ones in the back, 2 medium ones in the middle, and to small ones in the front. I also have a pirate ship in the middle. The barbs have checked it out a little but dont ever go through/in it. The shrimp like to go in the middle of the pirate ship sometimes because there are wholes to go in it on either side, front and back, and the middle is hollow but hidden.


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

The shrimp will like the ship because it gives them a safe place to hide when the molt and are hardening their new exoskeletons.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Agreed with Holly.I want a pic of the shrimp piloting said ship too,BTW.I know they do it,lol.


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Ha! They so do! They are always all over the ship like a little sailing crew! Too funny!


----------



## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

here is a grid chart if you still need alittle help

PETCO.com - Freshwater Compatibility Chart


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

I have a friend who might be getting a new aquarium, and I might give him the giant danios depending on what the people on here think. 

I did finally notice one of the tiger barbs nipping at the danios fins.

One of the tiger barbs is not looking very good. The coloring is very dull, and he just kind of swims like sideways facing the bottom of the tank a lot. Any ideas?


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds like he is on his way out.Whats the water params?Dont remember if you said you tested it.I would rehome the danios and keep your current stock the way it is until the cycle balances out.One thing you can do is a waterchange to keep the levels down now.He can bounce back,but its a slim chance.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

My ammonia level hasn't gone down at all. Any ideas why? Anything I can do?

pH is still at 7.4 and nitrite is at 0.


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gat896 said:


> My ammonia level hasn't gone down at all. Any ideas why? Anything I can do?
> 
> pH is still at 7.4 and nitrite is at 0.


Perhaps I missed the post but didn't your ammonia initially go down?

If you are adding chemicals especially ammonia locks, they can fool ammonia test kits. So the kits report ammonia when in fact the ammonia is actually locked up and not (as) dangerous.

PH is fine.

I would add live fast growing plants (anacharis, vals for instance). they will lower ammonia and raise pH. A high pH because of plant action is fine and expected. The plants will consume carbon dioxide which will raise pH. that that can only be a good thing for the fish.

my .02


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Perhaps I missed the post but didn't your ammonia initially go down?
> 
> If you are adding chemicals especially ammonia locks, they can fool ammonia test kits. So the kits report ammonia when in fact the ammonia is actually locked up and not (as) dangerous.
> 
> ...


No I thought it did but I think it was my own stupidity reading the test kit. It has stayed between 0 and .50 since the initial set up of the tank.
I havent added any ammonia chemicals.

I just have regular gravel. Plants wont grow in that will they?


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Many plants will grow in regular gravel. Wisteria, java fern, anacharis, anubias, vals, crypts, various swords....a lot of them out there and a lot of them don't require a whole lot of light.


----------



## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Agreed.Most of the ones you have to worry about with the substrate are things like the baby tears and other very small fine leaved plants.Swords do well in most anything,but occasionally you may have to use a root tab to help them out.

Let me see if i get this right:Most of the time,plants will only need a nutrient rich substrate and ferts if the lights are bright or you dose CO2.The key is a balance between them all.If the plants have low light(many will thrive)they will grow slower and use the CO2 produced by the fish in the tank,and the fish provide fertilizer.Once you jump anything to high tech,then you need to jump the other stuff as well.

Did I get that right,Ben?


----------



## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

As the two above posts have said, depending on what plants you want, you should be fine. I've got plain black gravel, and have dwarf hygro, giant hygro, amazon swords, java fern (anchored to a lava rock), and 2 marimo molls balls. (The dwarf water lettuce floats). All I do is use a liquid fertilizer once a week. The plants seem to be loosing the leaves they had at the store, and are growing newer, bigger, greener, better looking leaves. (I've got just a 14 watt light bulb, so it's low - med lighting).

It took about a month after planting to see a difference in the dwarf hygro and giant hygro - now, I can barely keep them trimmed! (The Java fern and Amazon swords came a few weeks ago, so I'm guessing they should start growing noticeably in the next few weeks). The moss balls are very slow growing. I haven't notice them change, (except one got a brown spot, so I moved it where it could get more light). The water lettuce spreads like mad, then starts dying off, then spreads again.

Let us know which plants you decide to go with. (If you have plants, ignore that, lol).


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gat896 said:


> No I thought it did but I think it was my own stupidity reading the test kit. It has stayed between 0 and .50 since the initial set up of the tank.
> I havent added any ammonia chemicals.
> 
> I just have regular gravel. Plants wont grow in that will they?


yes they will.

that said the best IMHO is to use peat moss then play sand with the gravel on top.

the peat moss helps prevent hardness buildup and the peat and sand do provide better "rooting" for the plants.

But then even just plain gravel can work also.

my .02


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Did a water test this morning. pH is same at 7.4, Ammonia is at .50, which is higher than it was..., Nitrite is at 0, and Nitrate is at like 4.0...

What do I need to do about the ammonia, should I add some kind of fast growing plant as suggested above?


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gat896 said:


> Did a water test this morning. pH is same at 7.4, Ammonia is at .50, which is higher than it was..., Nitrite is at 0, and Nitrate is at like 4.0...
> 
> What do I need to do about the ammonia, should I add some kind of fast growing plant as suggested above?


add some anacharis or vals.

actually .5 ppm is not really that bad as long as it quickly comes down.

During this time I would not add any food if you have fish in there.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Ok... locally I can't get vals or anachris, so I am just going to buy a wisteria plant for now. 

I have been only keeping my light on when I am around, should I keep it on more often now? Will the tiger barbs bother it at all?


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gat896 said:


> Ok... locally I can't get vals or anachris, so I am just going to buy a wisteria plant for now.
> 
> I have been only keeping my light on when I am around, should I keep it on more often now? Will the tiger barbs bother it at all?


get more then one plant. *old dude

wisteria is a good choice also but I have limited experience with it. That experience would indicate it needs 1.5 watts per gallon or more.

With the plants in the tank you need to have the light on like 10 hours or so.

I don't think the tiger barbs will bother the lights at all.





















or the plants *r2


my .02


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> I don't think the tiger barbs will bother the lights at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I didnt even realize how I worded that!

Ok... I will get a few more hopefully within the next week. Do I need to get any kind of fertilizer or anything?


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

gat896 said:


> I didnt even realize how I worded that!
> 
> Ok... I will get a few more hopefully within the next week. Do I need to get any kind of fertilizer or anything?


nope.

other then perhaps some peat moss for substrate but even that's optional.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Ok... two more Tiger barbs have died... I think it was just the fish but I am not sure because my tank is still the same. pH 7.2-7.4, Ammonia .50, Nitrite 0.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Can't blame the fish if you have ammonia present. Hard to rule out anything else if it is still there.


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

Everything is still the same. 
So... if I am not mistaken the ammonia will go down and nitrites will start rising?


----------



## gat896 (May 28, 2011)

I did a water test last night. My ammonia is at around 1 and nitrite still at 0, yet I have some Nitrates present (less than 5). Any tips?


----------



## cichlidae1950 (May 31, 2011)

I would use SEACHEM PRIME..... for me it does the best job, and then let the tank cycle, until all is real even. Patience is the name of the game in this hobby.:fish5:


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You may never see nitrites. If you see your ammonia go to 0 and you still don't have nitrites, then my guess is your cycle is over.


----------



## cichlidae1950 (May 31, 2011)

I have to agree with jrman, just be patient it will all come around sooner than you think


----------

