# Deathly Ill Fire Eel of Ruansama



## Ruansama

Hi Everyone,

I deperately need help with my fire eel, though I fear any attempts may be too late already.

I got him a few months ago and he has never eaten where I can see him, but has remained healthy, so I assumed that he has eaten when I cant see. about 2-3 days ago, I started noticing disturbing symptoms from him.

He is panting quite vigorously (except when I reach for him {gently of course}). Also, he is turning himself upside down and just lying limply on the bottom whilst panting quite heavily.

His colour has gone very pale all-round, but there are no obvious lacerations\bruizes on his body.

I tried turning him right-side-up and noticed that he felt quite slippery - a little more so than usual and that he leaves a mucus-like residue on my fingers after touch. All this was done very gently I assure you.

I upped the water temp a little and added some salt in the meantime, but should I remove him to a pre-set up "hospital tank", or leave him with my other fish?

I also read that gravel bottoms are not so good for them, but rather sand should be used... This true?

No fish are bothering him in his current state. (4 silver dollars, 7 scissor tails, 9 tiger barbs, 1 plecostamus (sp?), 1 rainbow shark and the fire eel).

Possibly unrelated: I had a blue lobster which recently died of unkown causes. I suspect he tried to molt, but got stuck, but I might be wrong. (same tank)

Thanks guys!*c/p*


----------



## majerah1

Sounds like something in the water is bothering him,with the extra slime coat and the heavy breathing.Whats the ammonia in the tank and when was the last water change?whats the gallonage of the tank and how much do you pull upon waterchanges?I would,just to be on the safe side,do a major 50% waterchange on the tank.How is the other fish acting?

And yes sand is what ive read as better for them as well.Does he have any places to hide?Would it be possible to get us some pics,and accurate reading of the ammonia nitrite and nitrate?


----------



## Ruansama

Thanks for the reply Majerah1.

I will have to get a testing kit to check things out. He does have some nice hiding spots.

I am not sure how to add pictures.

Will click on the upload photos link now and figure it out.

Thanks.


----------



## Ruansama

Ok here is a photo of him:

Aquarium Gallery - Regarding sick Fire Eel.


----------



## Ruansama

It's a 4-foot tank so it is 55 gallons (210 Litres here). I have not done a major water change since setting it up as the water has always seemed clear and tastes fine. I'd say when I cleaned the filter I did around 10% inadvertently. No major water chenges since then.

I've only cleaned the filter once in the 5 odd months the tank has been running.

Even with the plants dying, there has been no browning of the water.

All the other fish are fine. The Silver Dollars have always been scared when I approach the tank, but eat out of my hand when I give them prawn at night. Nothing out of the ordinary except the eel.


----------



## Reefing Madness

majerah1 said:


> Sounds like something in the water is bothering him,with the extra slime coat and the heavy breathing.Whats the ammonia in the tank and when was the last water change?whats the gallonage of the tank and how much do you pull upon waterchanges?I would,just to be on the safe side,do a major 50% waterchange on the tank.How is the other fish acting?
> 
> And yes sand is what ive read as better for them as well.Does he have any places to hide?Would it be possible to get us some pics,and accurate reading of the ammonia nitrite and nitrate?


And, what have you been feeding him? Has he been eating? What change did you make just before you noticed the Eel being ill?

A carnivore, live foods such as earthworms and black worms should be fed to the Fire Eel. Prepared tablet foods as well as krill and ocean plankton may eventually be accepted. 

This fish is not for a beginner.
Best suited for a larger aquarium, a soft substrate is necessary for this fish. The Fire Eel will often dig in the substrate and bury itself; this may uproot plants and rearrange decorations. A tight lid should be used for any long, slender fish, as they will often try to escape from the aquarium. The Fire Eel should be kept with fish of similar size or larger, and will not tolerate its own kind.


----------



## Ruansama

Reefing Madness said:


> And, what have you been feeding him? Has he been eating? What change did you make just before you noticed the Eel being ill?
> 
> A carnivore, live foods such as earthworms and black worms should be fed to the Fire Eel. Prepared tablet foods as well as krill and ocean plankton may eventually be accepted.
> 
> This fish is not for a beginner.
> Best suited for a larger aquarium, a soft substrate is necessary for this fish. The Fire Eel will often dig in the substrate and bury itself; this may uproot plants and rearrange decorations. A tight lid should be used for any long, slender fish, as they will often try to escape from the aquarium. The Fire Eel should be kept with fish of similar size or larger, and will not tolerate its own kind.


I have been keeping aquariums for some time now, but it has always been "by feel" - no fancy gadgets, water testing etc. Taste the water by dipping fingers and smell into the tank and go from there with salt, water change etc.

In terms of him eating, I have never seen him eat since I got him. I have tried giving him food, but the closest he got to eating from me is "smelling" what I hold to him (prawns and bloodworms).

Lid is tight and I will try and get good sand soon, but for now, I just wat to save him if possible.*ty

Thanks for the advice sofar.


----------



## susankat

You need to be doing weekly water changes changes of at least 30% especially not testing. I would imagine is quite high in the tank. Get a liquid test and check for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates also ph. It will help immensly in helping out the poor fish. Post the numbers here once you get them.


----------



## Goby

A fire eel living in a tank with gravel would be at super high risk for fungal and bacterial infections as their skin abrades so easily. You might try placing a PVC pipe in the tank...the eels like them and they tend to burrow less when PVC is available. They'll also burrow less with thick plant life and I'd suggest floating plants with these guys first because they can't dig them up and second because it will dim the lighting in the tank which will not only reduce the burrowing but will increase daytime activity. I used to float household Philodendron vines in my freshwater tanks but I hesitate to tell others to do that as I watched my vines closely and culled at the first sign of distress...some vine-cuts take well to the water, others not so much. I personally had great luck with Philodendrons...they also reduced nitrates. Not sure what you're feeding your eel, but he'll starve on processed foods like flakes/pellets etc...and I say that with absolute certainty no matter what the LFS expert tells you. This species needs live food initially...like blood and earth worms, and may or may not transition to frozen. A fire eel that is *not* being offered live foods will burrow in search of live food, especially at night, thus...coarse gravel will cause the skin to abrade. And since these fish don't have scales...the usual fungal and bacterial remedies offered at the LFS will require some tweaking and even then may still kill the fish. As far as water goes...they'll tolerate a good amount of nitrate but ammonia...not so much...and they are even more sensitive to ammonia spikes since their native waters tend to be oxygen rich. I had a fire eel for many years and found it a very rewarding experience. But their environment is very specific unfortunately. That said, if their needs are met they tend to be quite hardy...and quite affectionate. I find it odd that you've never seen this fish eat. Mine eventually fed directly from my hand but even before that I believe I saw him go after his food almost immediately...but I'm not 100% certain about that as it's been a few years back. Do you have a hospital tank that's ready that wouldn't require acclimation stress? This particular fish does shock easily so acclimation might be too much for him...especially a Ph change. 

My fingers are crossed for you and your eel. Can't remember what size tank you have but if your eel makes it, he may benefit from a 55+ gallon species tank where he can live in one-sided harmony with live feeder fish. I realize that may be a tall order, just something to think about. Anxious to hear how things turn out! First things first though...really need some water parameters asap.


----------



## Goby

I saw the pictures of your tank...very pretty. If I were you, I'd get a black PVC pipe in that tank and place him inside, today...right now. And I would shut off the lights. No doubt he is feeling very vulnerable fully exposed under those lights, which is only adding to his stress. Then I would test that water, today...right now. Respectfully...the fact that you are monitoring your water parameters by tasting them...and have not done water change or cleaned your filter in 5 months...honestly, I don't know how to respond to that. This may or may not be a water quality issue but the only way to know for sure is to do a test, with genuine testing supplies. Then if/when the water checks out okay, I'd start figuring out what medicinal remedies are appropriate, if any. And by appropriate I mean both type and REDUCED DOSAGE since you are dealing with a fish without scales. I am not a big fan of quarantine tanks when it comes to fish that are already distressed...in my experience it does more harm than good but others will argue with me, and have...to each their own. 

Not trying to be harsh...would just love to see your fire eel pull through and my suggestions are meant for now...not even 20 minutes from now...right now.

GOOD LUCK...and I mean that with all sincerity.


----------



## navigator black

I've had clown loaches do almost the same thing, when I cut back water changes from regular to occasional because of a family situation. This happened quite a few years ago, before I had figured out how essential weekly 25% water changes are. I thought I could let things run, and I was wrong.
The fish had heavier than usual slime to the touch, had lost their equilibrium and could not breathe properly. I was unable to save them.


If I were you, I would do 10-15% changes daily for the next few days. You can't make a massive water change all at once or the tank could biologically crash. Chances are, after 5 months, it is very acidic, and wild swings are to be avoided. I don't think you can bring the fish around any other way, and right now, it is playing the role of a canary in a coal mine.


----------



## Auban

i had a fire eel once that acted the same way right before it died. it went along healthy for a long time, then suddenly stopped eating and started laying around on the ground gasping for air. only too late did i realize that a small powerhead i had hidden behind all my plants had stopped working and was not moving any water. in hindsight, the fish only stayed where surface water was being circulated back down the other side of the tank, and always seemed to be at its worst in the morning, after a full night of everything in the tank using up the oxygen. my point? i think dissolved oxygen levels are much more important to a fire eel than they are to most other fish.


----------



## Goby

The Spiny Freshwater Eels of the family Mastacembelidae, In Aquariums

I'd encourage you to read through this information. It's authored by Bob Fenner...an expert aquarist and diver. If you can get past his flipidly cumbersome "my way or no way" attitude...you'll take a lot from what he puts to pen (or keyboard). Take note what he writes under _"Disease"_...with regards to half-strength doses etc. 

I personally haven't had much success with treating scaleless fish with anything but UV light. In fact, regardless of what kind of fish/ailment it is...UV has become my first line of defense and in my opinion my fish have benefited enormously. UV has hands down made a bigger impact on my fish’s environment than any other aquarium bell or whistle I’ve indulged in. In my opinion, UV has great prophylactic potential when an injured fish becomes vulnerable to infection and it's also proven to be an effective therapy for fish fighting parasites, fungus, and bacteria's. UV is not a cure-all and it has its limits and place, but for me and my fish it's a must have. In a 55-gallon tank you could probably get by with a Green Killing Machine but for a few bucks more you could get a better light with higher output. A lot of people swear by those Green Killing Machines though, and you can get them at Petco for under $50 (I think). 

In the above mentioned article, Bob Fenner recommends using a quarantine tank for a sick spiney eel…keep in mind though that Bob’s quarantine tanks are probably a bit more comfy than average with pristine water parameters that match the pristine water parameters of display tanks. Even when the goal is to improve water quality...unless we are talking ammonia spike, nitrites, or a poisonous chemical...gradual change is the rule of thumb. But if you do decide to quarantine, I’d be careful about netting a fish without scales. If you could get him inside PVC tube and block each end…water and all…that may reduce some of the stress of transfer.

Any water parameters yet? I'm thinking water parameters.


----------



## Ruansama

Goby said:


> The Spiny Freshwater Eels of the family Mastacembelidae, In Aquariums
> 
> I'd encourage you to read through this information. It's authored by Bob Fenner...an expert aquarist and diver. If you can get past his flipidly cumbersome "my way or no way" attitude...you'll take a lot from what he puts to pen (or keyboard). Take note what he writes under _"Disease"_...with regards to half-strength doses etc.
> 
> I personally haven't had much success with treating scaleless fish with anything but UV light. In fact, regardless of what kind of fish/ailment it is...UV has become my first line of defense and in my opinion my fish have benefited enormously. UV has hands down made a bigger impact on my fish’s environment than any other aquarium bell or whistle I’ve indulged in. In my opinion, UV has great prophylactic potential when an injured fish becomes vulnerable to infection and it's also proven to be an effective therapy for fish fighting parasites, fungus, and bacteria's. UV is not a cure-all and it has its limits and place, but for me and my fish it's a must have. In a 55-gallon tank you could probably get by with a Green Killing Machine but for a few bucks more you could get a better light with higher output. A lot of people swear by those Green Killing Machines though, and you can get them at Petco for under $50 (I think).
> 
> In the above mentioned article, Bob Fenner recommends using a quarantine tank for a sick spiney eel…keep in mind though that Bob’s quarantine tanks are probably a bit more comfy than average with pristine water parameters that match the pristine water parameters of display tanks. Even when the goal is to improve water quality...unless we are talking ammonia spike, nitrites, or a poisonous chemical...gradual change is the rule of thumb. But if you do decide to quarantine, I’d be careful about netting a fish without scales. If you could get him inside PVC tube and block each end…water and all…that may reduce some of the stress of transfer.
> 
> Any water parameters yet? I'm thinking water parameters.


Hi Goby and everyone who has replied,

Thanks for the advice thusfar. I found the eel dead yesterday morning to my great disapointment. 

I have been to my local pet stores and not one has a water testing kit. I did however order one and it should arrive in about a week. 

I dont know if it would help much then, but I think I need to up my game if I want to sucessfully keep a fire eel. 

I have now removed all my gravel and have a related question: Do I have to have sand, or can I keep the bottom clean (with pots for plants and a pvc pipe for my next eel).

Also, if I really do need sand, how big should the grains be? Very fine desert sand, or is bird sand sufficient (bird sand is about 0.5mm to 1mm in diameter)

I will post water specs asap. Still waiting on the testing kit. 

I apologise for my lack of knowledge on appropriate water change cycles. I was always taught that stability is the key and that water changes are only sometimes a necessary evil (if you have had some fish dying for example).

Thanks again all.


----------



## Crazy

well Ruansama, this is an ever evolving hobby. As we learn more practices change to better promote the health and lifespans of the fish. I hate that you had to learn the same way many of us have (by losing fish) but in perspective it has plugged you into this forum which has a great wealth of knowledge. I do recommend doing water changes weekly and depending the fish involved between 25 and 50 percent. I also recommend water testing, in an established tank with appropriate filtration and good water flow you should have 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrites, and less than 40ppm Nitrates. The first two are toxic to a lethal degree to fish. No you do not have to have a substrate, but seeing how you kept fire eels they like to use it as cover. I recommend playsand, wash it 6-8 times before you put it into the tank to reduce the amount of clouding from the dust. Also sand is much eaiser to clean up as all the waste is right on top for you to vaccum up.


----------



## Ruansama

CrazyMFFM said:


> well Ruansama, this is an ever evolving hobby. As we learn more practices change to better promote the health and lifespans of the fish. I hate that you had to learn the same way many of us have (by losing fish) but in perspective it has plugged you into this forum which has a great wealth of knowledge. I do recommend doing water changes weekly and depending the fish involved between 25 and 50 percent. I also recommend water testing, in an established tank with appropriate filtration and good water flow you should have 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrites, and less than 40ppm Nitrates. The first two are toxic to a lethal degree to fish. No you do not have to have a substrate, but seeing how you kept fire eels they like to use it as cover. I recommend playsand, wash it 6-8 times before you put it into the tank to reduce the amount of clouding from the dust. Also sand is much eaiser to clean up as all the waste is right on top for you to vaccum up.


Hi CrazyMFFM,

Thanks for that.

I do not really know what playsand is, or where to get it. Do you have an idea of the grain size? 

Also in your repl you mentioned nitrate twice. am I correct in assuming that the first nitrate was meant to be ammonium nitrate?

Thanks again.


----------



## Crazy

Playsand is commonly availible through Home Depot or Lowes. You can usually find it in the building materials area for less than $4.00 for a 50lb bag and it is a medium fine grain sand. 

Also I mentioned Nitrites and Nitrates. When Ammonia is broken down by a bacteria called Nitrosomaonas and is converted to Nitrites, which is still toxic to fish. Nitrites are broken down by a second bacteria called Nitrobacter and you are left with Nitrates. Nitrates can be eatn up by plants to a degree but are best delt with with frequent and regular water changes.


----------



## susankat

I would suggest pool filter sand over playsand. Its softer and more uniform in size. And you can get by with little rinsing.


----------



## Goby

Sorry to hear about your fire eel. I've had some hard knocks myself and undoubtedly will again...no one in this hobby is invulnerable to disaster. Your next experience will be improved...and the one after that...and the one after that. 

Regarding substrate...for me, it's all about the fish. My tank is a playground as I try to make things fun for my pets...fun is second only to water-quality. With that, your new eel will have fun playing in super soft play sand or something similar (the kind that goes in kids' sandboxes and an even softer grade of sand may be available at pool/hot tube stores). I'd buy dark colored PVC pipe and bury it in a few spots within the sand, with one or both ends exposed.

Wishing you and your fish a better day today! 




Ruansama said:


> Hi Goby and everyone who has replied,
> 
> Thanks for the advice thusfar. I found the eel dead yesterday morning to my great disapointment.
> 
> I have been to my local pet stores and not one has a water testing kit. I did however order one and it should arrive in about a week.
> 
> I dont know if it would help much then, but I think I need to up my game if I want to sucessfully keep a fire eel.
> 
> I have now removed all my gravel and have a related question: Do I have to have sand, or can I keep the bottom clean (with pots for plants and a pvc pipe for my next eel).
> 
> Also, if I really do need sand, how big should the grains be? Very fine desert sand, or is bird sand sufficient (bird sand is about 0.5mm to 1mm in diameter)
> 
> I will post water specs asap. Still waiting on the testing kit.
> 
> I apologise for my lack of knowledge on appropriate water change cycles. I was always taught that stability is the key and that water changes are only sometimes a necessary evil (if you have had some fish dying for example).
> 
> Thanks again all.


----------



## Ruansama

Goby said:


> Sorry to hear about your fire eel. I've had some hard knocks myself and undoubtedly will again...no one in this hobby is invulnerable to disaster. Your next experience will be improved...and the one after that...and the one after that.
> 
> Regarding substrate...for me, it's all about the fish. My tank is a playground as I try to make things fun for my pets...fun is second only to water-quality. With that, your new eel will have fun playing in super soft play sand or something similar (the kind that goes in kids' sandboxes and an even softer grade of sand may be available at pool/hot tube stores). I'd buy dark colored PVC pipe and bury it in a few spots within the sand, with one or both ends exposed.
> 
> Wishing you and your fish a better day today!


Hi and thanks Goby,

As I have said, I have taken the gravel out. I am currently waiting for the water to clear (the gravel was disgustingly dirty!) I have had to clean the filter 3 times now whilst waiting for the water to clear (I started this morning at about 10am and it is now 6pm). I have also now put a stocking around the outlet of my submersed water pump to speed the process (working remarkably well).

I have done a 25% water change and will do another tomorrow.

All my fish are in a seperate temporary container until the water has cleared enough for me to trust their gills will not clog with dirt at every "breath".

I will get some pool filter sand tomorrow and, after a few washes, fill to about 4-5cm (2 inches roughly), once again waiting for the water to clear. From what I've heard, I'll have to get some pots for my plants and fill them in with my old gravel (for appropriate root space). The other plants float, so no adjustments needed there.

Will update on major milestones and offer water parameters as soon as I get the test kit, though it might fluctuate with the big changes happening.

Thanks again!


----------



## Goby

Sounds like a plan! When you clean your filter and filter media etc, are u cleaning with old tank water? And not tap water? If you used tap water, you may have destroyed the beneficial bacteria. If you used tank water you're good. :fish-in-a-bag:




Ruansama said:


> Hi and thanks Goby,
> 
> As I have said, I have taken the gravel out. I am currently waiting for the water to clear (the gravel was disgustingly dirty!) I have had to clean the filter 3 times now whilst waiting for the water to clear (I started this morning at about 10am and it is now 6pm). I have also now put a stocking around the outlet of my submersed water pump to speed the process (working remarkably well).
> 
> I have done a 25% water change and will do another tomorrow.
> 
> All my fish are in a seperate temporary container until the water has cleared enough for me to trust their gills will not clog with dirt at every "breath".
> 
> I will get some pool filter sand tomorrow and, after a few washes, fill to about 4-5cm (2 inches roughly), once again waiting for the water to clear. From what I've heard, I'll have to get some pots for my plants and fill them in with my old gravel (for appropriate root space). The other plants float, so no adjustments needed there.
> 
> Will update on major milestones and offer water parameters as soon as I get the test kit, though it might fluctuate with the big changes happening.
> 
> Thanks again!


----------



## Ruansama

Hi Everyone, 

I have completely re-vamped the tank now with zero losses (YAY!). I have changed the substrate to pool filter sand as recommended and created a definite division between swim area and shelter in the tank. I will post photos shortly. I plan to add a few more plants as I have Silver Dollars and they LOVE eating at my plants - my reason of thinking: have enough plants for them to chow on and the plants should grow faster than they nibble.

I FINALLY got a water test kit today. It unfortunately does not test Ammonia, but Nitrite and Nitrate are included.

The specs are:
Cl2: 0mg\l (Chlorine)
pH: 6.8 (pH)
NO2: 0 mg\l (Nitrites)
NO3: 250mg\l (Nitrates) - water changes will bring this down.
GH: 16*10d (General Hardness) - water changes will bring this down aswell.
KH: 6*10d

I was shocked to see the NO3. It is way beyond normal parameters. I have started doing water changes, but I had just drained 20% when the water to my flat was cut off. Hopefully it will be repaired before tonight.

My plan: 20 % water change for next 5 days. Re-check parameters. (all water to be kept aside for at least 6 hours before being put into tank).

Your suggestions?

Thanks


----------

