# Fish VS car ride



## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Hey everyone, 

My name is Pat and I am looking at a 1-1.5 gallon aquarium to put in my dorm room however, I have a few concerns I would like to go over with you guys first. 

I would like the aquarium to have a "hood light" (as I've always heard it called) and a simple structure on the bottom for my fish to hide around. I would like a bottom feeder and a few active fish (if I wanted something to just float around I'd draw eyes on a cork and well... there you go) I can change the water once or twice a week if necessary and I will always be around to feed them and can monitor them very closely. Alright thats the good news........

I had a 20 gallon tank two or so years ago and to be nice about it things did not turn out well. Every fish I placed in there died within 2 weeks except the occasional bottom feeder and even then they met their demise soon enough. I changed the water once every week or so, had a filter which was changed regularly, I followed all of the directions on the chemical bottles and to this day, the mystery of the tank continues to baffle people. So my past with fish is not well. 

Some problems I fear to run into are as follows: 
They heat this place like a prison, should I look at an in tank heater? 

I live 8 hours away, and my vacations, which are every 6 or so weeks on adv., may last for 4 to 30 (Christmas) days. Will my fish make the ride home?(They have to at least once because of summer)

If the answer to the above question is 'no' is there a way for me to keep them alive until I return? (Except for summer!)

A tag on that question, I drive a Jeep wrangler, so aerodynamics and smooth ride were not considered, will the bumping and jarring around kill these little guys? 

I obviously want these guys to he hardy, I'm a full time student, not a marine biologist so what would you recommend? (PS my choices must come from Wal-Mart.... I know, I'm not incredibly thrilled about it either)

Space is a little bit of a problem, my mother did teach me to be frugal and pack/store things well, but there is only so much stuff you can put in this broom closet I live in! What is the minimal amount of stuff I should keep around? 

Other questions like food and special chemicals I believe would change with my choice/options of fish, so I will save those for later. 

Thanks everyone!

l_______
/l ,[_____],
l---L -OlllllllO-
()_) ()_)--o-)_)


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

1-1.5 gallons is really small, pretty much too small for any fish and very hard to keep stable. How large can you have in your dorm? 10 gallons would be much better, even then care must be taken in the fish you choose. 5 gallons is good for a betta.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

I cannot fit more then a 1-1.5 gallon in my room unless I find a way to scare my roommate off. :animated_fish_swimm 

What about a few small tiger barbs or something like that? I can invest a decent amount of time in keeping it stable, the hardest part is the distance home. How would my 1-1.5 gallon be "un-stable"? 

Another avenue perhaps, I know Betas are aggressive as all hell but do you think they would bother a bottom feeder? I like bottom feeders and would really like to have one, and I've seen Betas kept alive for what seems like ever in little more then a glass of water. I will go that route, but I would much rather have 2 or 3 swimming fish.


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

How much space do u really have? U would be better off with at least a 5g. I have an eclipse 5g hex made but marineland. it isn't very wide and goes up. It's a whole kit so comes wit good light and filter that stays in the hood so u can't even see it and leaves more space in your tank. I had 3 guppys and bunch of shrimp in it. And you only really have to chang 1 or 2g of water on it. And it's very quiet.







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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

I will measure my available space and send a picture when I get back to my dorm. I was leaning towards a 1.5 gallon because of its portability. The car ride is a big issue for me. Summer and Christmas are long breaks and I don't want to begin a genocide before each starts.


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

Well my tank is only about 12 inch around. Marineland also makes a 3g & 5g creasent shaped tank with the same hide away filter n light that might work for u. As for the traveling, if ur gonna b about a week or so they should b fine if u feed b4 u leave. I left mine for 5 days. I just feed them kinda heavy the morning b4 then that night did my water change and cleaned the filter. As for like summer our christmas I think they would be fine if u don't feed them a couple of days b4 the trip so they don't go to the bathroom a lot during the ride (since u won't have the filter running) and just drain out 1g or 2g before yo go stop it won't over spill.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Alright everyone, I have about 10 inches square as far as desk space goes. Everything else is pretty much out.


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

I think u can still squeeze in the 5g creasent on 10 in. space if u place it corner to corner. Even the 5g hex


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Chillwill007 said:


> I think u can still squeeze in the 5g creasent on 10 in. space if u place it corner to corner. Even the 5g hex


Grease the sides and push like crazy. *r2 I'll look into one. I think I have a 5G in the attic at the house...........


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

When traveling with the fish,i suggest you get some extra bags from walmart and learn to bag the fish.If you double bag them,and keep them in a insulated box(wrap the bags in newspaper)then no matter how bumpy the ride they will be ok.I have shipped all over,and even drove 1200 miles with about 15 fish over the course of four days and everyone was fine.Just dont feed two days before you leave so they dont soil as much in the water.


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## Chillwill007 (Aug 20, 2010)

B4 I left for work I busted out a tape measure to give u an idea of how big a space u need for the the hex tank. On a 10x10 table u might just have a lil over an inch over hanging the table. 







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## HUMAN1ESS (Oct 5, 2010)

I think you should just forget getting a fish tank. It sounds like with your busy schedule (traveling ofter home and back) your fish are going to be mega stressed.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

use a 1g jar plant it with a neon tetra.

On the trip home just screw the lid on.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I'd say empty the tank and bag the fish too. How long are you away for? Like was said if it's not more than a week leave the tank on it's own and it will be fine. Personally I really wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 5 gallon as I think the chances of ending in disaster would be very high. 

For a 5 gallon other than a betta prehaps about 4 male Endlers or 3 male guppies. Most say a 10 gallon is better for shrimp but it could work. Red cherry shrimp are really fun to watch and pretty too. If you want some thing different look into Killifish, a pair of many of them would do well in 5 gallons but you need to give them the right conditions.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

Smaller the size the more things can go wrong. Thats why everyone is trying to convince you of a 5G or larger. On a small tank being near a window or under an AC return can cause fluctuations in temperature, much faster than the fish will be comfortable with. Also, if anything bad gets into the tank, it doesn't leave, so with a small tank you may have just poisoned everything in it.. with more water, it will dilute it more giving a better chance at life. Lastly, fish waste will build up much faster in a small tank, which can also be toxic to them.

If you have to go small, get the largest thing that WILL fit, and do a beaslbob build.. little peat moss, then a little sand, and then a little gravel on top 3/4-1" for each layer. wetting each layer a little as you put it in. Add as many plants as you can afford, put in a spiral CFL light equivalent to 3W per gallon of water, and wait a week. Then add a fish, and maybe some shrimp. The plants will help eat up ammonia and nitrrates that buildup in the tank, which will make it easier to cycle as well. I've seen something similar done with just red cherry shrimp and no fish in one of those "betta bowls" that look like a brandy snifter (extra large wine glass). Looked very cool.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to write, for some reason the site has been down to me for a while. 

I've been continuing my looking around and researching for a small aquarium build, I have a 10 G at the house, not the 5 I thought, and it is pretty big for the area I have. 

I'm nearly ready to forget the idea all together, I def. have the time, but space is non-existent. But I have a few more questions before I throw in the towel.........

Betas, My mother has kept one alive in little more then a glass of water for years and they are even sold in almost cruel looking plastic jars, how would 1 of them work in a 1 gallon tank? It looks to me as if moving from a 1/4 cup of water to a 1G would be a helluva blessing. They are also found naturally in puddles and rice paddies which oozes the thought of small space (and huge SNAKES! lol). 

I have an "in-tank" heater at the house that came with my 20G. Should that be sufficent or deadly in keeping this tank at an even keel temperature wise? 

What about a 1.5? Is that worth anything over the 1G? 

I also like bottom feeders, specifically the Plecostomus, LG. Those are the only guys I've ever had a lot of success with how would they do with a beta, or alone? They are suppose to be very hardy (and I completely believe this). Also, Gouramis, both blue and dwarf are suppose to be extremely hardy, how about those guys? 1 or 2 of them? 

I'm sorry if you guys think I'm dragging this topic out, I'm just trying to explore every option and figgure out why small tanks are bad when fish stores, even really really nice ones, do not follow the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule and their stock still looks healthy and active. I've got the time and drive to baby this tank, don't bunch me in with other college kids! 

Also, a lot of fish information seems like opinions, even in this post there is a disagreement between not taking them on car rides and shipping them all over the country, I'm trying to figgure out what to believe as well.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

HUMAN1ESS said:


> I think you should just forget getting a fish tank. It sounds like with your busy schedule (traveling ofter home and back) your fish are going to be mega stressed.


I'm thinking about it, just a little more research and I might wind up throwing in the towel, but I'm not quitting yet!


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Chillwill007 said:


> B4 I left for work I busted out a tape measure to give u an idea of how big a space u need for the the hex tank. On a 10x10 table u might just have a lil over an inch over hanging the table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the pic!:fish-in-bowl:


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Betas, My mother has kept one alive in little more then a glass of water for years and they are even sold in almost cruel looking plastic jars, how would 1 of them work in a 1 gallon tank? It looks to me as if moving from a 1/4 cup of water to a 1G would be a helluva blessing. They are also found naturally in puddles and rice paddies which oozes the thought of small space (and huge SNAKES! lol).


This is a myth.They are only in puddles during droughts.They are found in vast rice paddies.Please read this:
Tiny Mud Puddles And Other Lies - UltimateBettas

If you are serious about a betta please read up on this site,they are dedicated to bettas and full of very knowledgeable people.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

mfgann said:


> Smaller the size the more things can go wrong. Thats why everyone is trying to convince you of a 5G or larger. On a small tank being near a window or under an AC return can cause fluctuations in temperature, much faster than the fish will be comfortable with. Also, if anything bad gets into the tank, it doesn't leave, so with a small tank you may have just poisoned everything in it.. with more water, it will dilute it more giving a better chance at life. Lastly, fish waste will build up much faster in a small tank, which can also be toxic to them.
> 
> If you have to go small, get the largest thing that WILL fit, and do a beaslbob build.. little peat moss, then a little sand, and then a little gravel on top 3/4-1" for each layer. wetting each layer a little as you put it in. Add as many plants as you can afford, put in a spiral CFL light equivalent to 3W per gallon of water, and wait a week. Then add a fish, and maybe some shrimp. The plants will help eat up ammonia and nitrrates that buildup in the tank, which will make it easier to cycle as well. I've seen something similar done with just red cherry shrimp and no fish in one of those "betta bowls" that look like a brandy snifter (extra large wine glass). Looked very cool.


The gravel sounds ok, but the sand sounds like it would suck to keep track of while trying to clean, money isn't to terrible of an issue, I've been saving or something like this for a while now so I could fill it with that ever plant would be best (if there is one better then another).

A brandy sniffer (god haven't seen one of those since my restaurant days!) is MUCH smaller then a 1G and wouldn't have filtration or a heater, how about a Beta and a bottom feeder or two for a 1G?


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> This is a myth.They are only in puddles during droughts.They are found in vast rice paddies.Please read this:
> Tiny Mud Puddles And Other Lies - UltimateBettas
> 
> If you are serious about a betta please read up on this site,they are dedicated to bettas and full of very knowledgeable people.


This website is awesome! Thank you!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

We kept a betta in a 1g decorative fish bowl with first peace lilies growing out of the top then lucky bamboos.

We fed 2 betta pellets per day.

Never changed the water but did clean the bowl every 2-3 weeks or so.

The fish lived for over 2 1/2 years before we gave it away.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> We kept a betta in a 1g decorative fish bowl with first peace lilies growing out of the top then lucky bamboos.
> 
> We fed 2 betta pellets per day.
> 
> ...


Never changed the water? That sounds interesting. How do you clean the bowl without changing the water? One of those little magnetic scrubbers? Bottom feeders? Wouldn't the gravel get nasty and full of crud?


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

jeepgunner12 said:


> The gravel sounds ok, but the sand sounds like it would suck to keep track of while trying to clean, money isn't to terrible of an issue, I've been saving or something like this for a while now so I could fill it with that ever plant would be best (if there is one better then another).
> 
> A brandy sniffer (god haven't seen one of those since my restaurant days!) is MUCH smaller then a 1G and wouldn't have filtration or a heater, how about a Beta and a bottom feeder or two for a 1G?


Actually, the idea is to not clean it. You feed the fish, the fish feeds the plants, the plant detoxifies and oxygenates the water, and everyone is happy. It is better if you can have a bottom feeder though, which is hard in such a confined aquarium. I have a 2.5G I set up with a betta and a handful of plants this way. I'd hoped to use shrimp as cleaners, but this betta, unlike my last, has a real taste for shrimp, and will hunt them down. He had a great thanksgiving dinner. Maybe when the tank grows in better and the shrimp have more hiding spots.

The 2.5G I got is by Aqeuon, and it was only about $25 I think. Comes with a light (replace it with the spiral CFL lights if you add the plants). I would say 2.5g or so would be okay for a betta (imho), or pure shrimp tank.. with maybe a neon thrown in. BTW, the "brandy snifter" thing I saw wasn't a real snifter, that I could tell. I think it was shaped like one, but was oversized to make a tank out of. Looked like it held 1/2G or 1G. Here is a similar setup using a 1G bowl. Very similar to what Beaslbob commonly suggests, and so far it works very well for me too. I've lost one shrimp out of 30 in that 10G tank, that I can tell, and no fish have died. The plants are growing like wildfire. I can't see why I wouldn't use this technique from now on... its just too darned easy.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Never changed the water? That sounds interesting. How do you clean the bowl without changing the water? One of those little magnetic scrubbers? Bottom feeders? Wouldn't the gravel get nasty and full of crud?


Yes it is my standard procedure to never change the water. I have used that procedure since the late '70's with both fresh and salt tanks. I moved around a bit in the air force and this worked in many cities in the US. But the longest I had a tank running was for 8 years. With live bearers the tank had descendants from the original fish.

On the betta bowl the wife would empty the water to another container then wipe down the glass clean the rocks and so on. then replace everything back in the container.

On the planted tank I would clean the substrate every year or two. I found the crud build up to some level and then remained there. It didn't seem to hurt anything. But then neither did siphoning off the crud either.


my .02


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Is a Beta in a 1 gallon a horrible idea? With a plecostomus as a tank mate and some small plants? I have read a lot of the Beta site and it seems I can accomidate for one excepting the space, they recomend 5G per fish.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Is a Beta in a 1 gallon a horrible idea? With a plecostomus as a tank mate and some small plants? I have read a lot of the Beta site and it seems I can accomidate for one excepting the space, they recomend 5G per fish.


I would leave the pleco out. they get really really big.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

besides snails will clean the tank just as well.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks guys, so a Beta and some snails with a few small plants. Is there a good hardy plant for the small tank? How do I keep live plants alive? Will the beta be dining on my snails from time to time?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Thanks guys, so a Beta and some snails with a few small plants. Is there a good hardy plant for the small tank? How do I keep live plants alive? Will the beta be dining on my snails from time to time?


If you use aquatic plants you will get the snails also.

Some bunch plants like bacopa will grow up outta the water. 
On the bowl we had the peace lillies and lucky bamboo which were house plants with the roots in the water and the main plant above the water.

for small bowl aquatic plants you might try to find micro swords and other small "ground cover" type plants.

Best of luck and hope it turns out awesome.


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> If you use aquatic plants you will get the snails also.
> 
> Some bunch plants like bacopa will grow up outta the water.
> On the bowl we had the peace lillies and lucky bamboo which were house plants with the roots in the water and the main plant above the water.
> ...


Sounds like a plan, whats the best way to "culture" (I believe is the term) when plants are involved? Should I culture it and add fish then plants? Plants then fish? How exactly do I culture something? Again I've researched it and it seems like an opinion answered question.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Sounds like a plan, whats the best way to "culture" (I believe is the term) when plants are involved? Should I culture it and add fish then plants? Plants then fish? How exactly do I culture something? Again I've researched it and it seems like an opinion answered question.


I guess one way to look at it is our planted tank are culturing plants. 

Plants first then fish. Get the plants in charge and established right from the start. So they can expand or slow growth as necessary to remain in charge after adding fish.

I cultured macro algaes, phyto (micro algae or green water) and rotifers for my marine tank. You just provide an environment where something grows and is protected.

my .02


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

Will an under gravel filter with a bed of gravel allow things to grow?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Will an under gravel filter with a bed of gravel allow things to grow?


Posters tell me a under gravel filters is a no no for plants.

I have no experience though I use peat and sand for a substrate.

my .02


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## jeepgunner12 (Nov 21, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> Posters tell me a under gravel filters is a no no for plants.
> 
> I have no experience though I use peat and sand for a substrate.
> 
> my .02


You are awsome*w3


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

jeepgunner12 said:


> Will an under gravel filter with a bed of gravel allow things to grow?


Undergravels are bad for plants because the roots of some plants can entangle themselves in the filter base, and slow water flow. 

The Aqueon 2.5G tank I bought came with a built-in filter in the hood, if you want to use it. It is removable if you don't. If you plant heavily enough the plants will do the filtering for you, and it isn't really necessary. Plus it blocks some of the light. 

And yes, beaslbob is awesome


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Don't tell anyone

you guys have a reputation to protect.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

and gals also


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