# Okay...API Test Results, Part 2: Please Help Me Analyze, Once More



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Okay, guys and gals. It's been two days since my water change, and I was advised that this is the time to take the next series of readings from the API Master Kit, and so here are the results, again, following the directions _explicitly_...

*High Range Ph (based on keeping goldfish; I didn't have to do the standard Ph test according to the instructions from API): 7.4 or possibly lower, which isn't indicated on the chart but it seems like my color match was lighter than the yellowish/green bar that is first on the chart...

Ammonia: 0.25 (still don't know why this won't drop to 0)
Nitrite: 0 (this dropped from my last test!)
Nitrate: STILL somewhere between 40 and 80 ppm; it's hard to read because the color is a darkish orange, but not quite very dark...*

Based on these, can someone please continue to advise me based on my last round of tests? Those came out to be, just for reference:

_High Ph: 8.2
Ammonia: 0-0.25
Nitrite: 0.25-0.50
Nitrate: 40-80 ppm_

What do I need to do at this point? How can I get the ammonia and nitrates down? Would this be a matter of less feeding now? And what about High Ph -- is this OK at *7.4*?


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## Martini2108 (Jul 23, 2010)

The ammonia and nitrites can be brought down with 2 methods (my personal favorite methods there are more than 2 just keeping it simple) 1. wait for the bacteria to grow and slow down on feeding a bit. 2. add live plants in addition to keeping you're ammonia/nitrites down they will also lower the nitrates. A good "nutrient hog" plant is the hornwort. I'm pretty sure the Ph isn't bad for goldfish but if you're getting lowest reading on the high range ph test move the low range ph test. Btw Java fern is also a great plant easy to care for.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Ammonia is coming from the goldfish, but it is worth working to lower. Less food, a better biofilter. You have a hang on the back filter? These can be problematic from the biofilter point of view because every time you clean them you lose a lot of your bioculture. If it were me, I'd add a sponge filter as a secondary filter, just for the biofilter, and keep the hang on back as a water polisher. You can hide the sponge filter behind some decorations and mostly forget about it, just squeeze it into a bucket maybe once a month. 

I second the java moss suggestion. It is nearly as easy as plastic plants, I kid you not. Hornwort, while great, drops needles when it is unhappy about something, and that makes a mess. Goldfish will not eat hornwort needles - too tough, doesn't really break down enough. I am getting a feeling from your posts that you're not somebody that enjoys cleaning up messes.


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Ammonia is coming from the goldfish, but it is worth working to lower. Less food, a better biofilter. You have a hang on the back filter? These can be problematic from the biofilter point of view because every time you clean them you lose a lot of your bioculture. If it were me, I'd add a sponge filter as a secondary filter, just for the biofilter, and keep the hang on back as a water polisher. You can hide the sponge filter behind some decorations and mostly forget about it, just squeeze it into a bucket maybe once a month.
> 
> I second the java moss suggestion. It is nearly as easy as plastic plants, I kid you not. Hornwort, while great, drops needles when it is unhappy about something, and that makes a mess. Goldfish will not eat hornwort needles - too tough, doesn't really break down enough. I am getting a feeling from your posts that you're not somebody that enjoys cleaning up messes.


I agree with Chris on everything here. Something you might want to consider that would help is to throw away the carbon for the aquaclear filter and buy an additional bag of the bio-media (the little ceramic chunks). They're there to hold the bacteria colonies. The carbon inserts are really only active for the first week, then they need to be replaced to continue working. Many people remove them altogether. The additional bio-media might help boost your ammonia conversion. The numbers on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate suggest that you've got all the colonies going, they're just unable to convert all the ammonia yet.

The nitrates are going to build up in your system. It is a closed system with no way to get rid of the nitrates. Really the best ways to remove it are water changes or plants. Most people do water changes. Some of us 'discovered' beaslbob's idea of overloading plants and letting them eat all the nitrates and fell in love with such a low-maintenance tank, as I'm sure you can understand. Please forgive how zealous we can sound.. it does almost seem like a cult. In your current tank (which I really like, BTW), some of the plants might not match the decor.. You would really have to look them up and see. I usually google them, wikipedia them, or find them on some site like plantgeek.net. I googled a little on goldfish and these plants sound goldfish compatible: Java Fern, Java Moss, African Water Fern, Hornwort, Anubias, Water Sprites, Frogbit. As said before.. hornwort may get messy. Java moss is DEAD simple. You could probably grow it in a closet. It is just not the prettiest thing out there. Java ferns can be attached to driftwood, which makes it easy to move and clean around. The problem is, to make a big dent in your nitrates, I would guess you need quite a few plants. This may not fit into your budget/style/etc. 

Hope this helps a little bit. Good luck.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Martini2108 said:


> The ammonia and nitrites can be brought down with 2 methods (my personal favorite methods there are more than 2 just keeping it simple) 1. wait for the bacteria to grow and slow down on feeding a bit. 2. add live plants in addition to keeping you're ammonia/nitrites down they will also lower the nitrates. A good "nutrient hog" plant is the hornwort. I'm pretty sure the Ph isn't bad for goldfish but if you're getting lowest reading on the high range ph test move the low range ph test. Btw Java fern is also a great plant easy to care for.


Thanks Martini; I understand what you're saying about the Ph, it's just that I went according to what the instructions that came with the kit said -- according to them, goldfish "fell" into a certain range of what their water should ideally be, Ph wise, so I used the High Range test because they fell into that category. This is something that I will get into in more depth though soon, because it was addressed by another member (in terms of "following" what the directions said). I just wanted to explain why I did what I did to you.

Further, while I won't switch to live plants for the tank, I can indeed control overfeeding -- I am going to begin cutting back to once a day right now. But let me ask you...if the High Range Ph test didn't really "result" in anything discernable on the color chart, that means I should test with the standard Ph test?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Ammonia is coming from the goldfish, but it is worth working to lower. Less food, a better biofilter. You have a hang on the back filter?


Yes -- if you see in my signature, I am running two HOBs, an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 at 325 GPH and an AquaClear 110 at 500 GPH. 



> These can be problematic from the biofilter point of view because every time you clean them you lose a lot of your bioculture. If it were me, I'd add a sponge filter as a secondary filter, just for the biofilter, and keep the hang on back as a water polisher. You can hide the sponge filter behind some decorations and mostly forget about it, just squeeze it into a bucket maybe once a month.


Chris, I haven't cleaned either of the filters yet -- the Aqueon has had a replacement carbon cartridge or two, but the AquaClear does have a sponge block media that's in there and hasn't been rinsed or changed.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

mfgann said:


> I agree with Chris on everything here. Something you might want to consider that would help is to throw away the carbon for the aquaclear filter and buy an additional bag of the bio-media (the little ceramic chunks). They're there to hold the bacteria colonies. The carbon inserts are really only active for the first week, then they need to be replaced to continue working. Many people remove them altogether. The additional bio-media might help boost your ammonia conversion.


Thanks Matt,

I have been thinking about getting rid of the AquaClear's carbon pouch and replacing it with a pack of Seachem Purigen, to sit right under the biomax -- would that be suitable?

It also doesn't help, I'm sure, that my Aqueon's filter cartridges have exhausted carbon in them -- what can I do for these? Can I just rinse the floss packs out and put them back in the filter? 



> The numbers on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate suggest that you've got all the colonies going, they're just unable to convert all the ammonia yet.


Well at least that's good to know...

The most difficult thing was reading the Nitrate number, because the test tube turned a dark orange, which indicates somewhere in the 40 ppm range, but it was so difficult to make out because when I compared the water to the chart, it seemed like it could have matched up with at least three variations of the orange boxes...how do I know which one is my reading? 



> The nitrates are going to build up in your system. It is a closed system with no way to get rid of the nitrates. Really the best ways to remove it are water changes or plants. Most people do water changes. Some of us 'discovered' beaslbob's idea of overloading plants and letting them eat all the nitrates and fell in love with such a low-maintenance tank, as I'm sure you can understand. Please forgive how zealous we can sound.. it does almost seem like a cult. In your current tank (which I really like, BTW), some of the plants might not match the decor.. You would really have to look them up and see. I usually google them, wikipedia them, or find them on some site like plantgeek.net. I googled a little on goldfish and these plants sound goldfish compatible: Java Fern, Java Moss, African Water Fern, Hornwort, Anubias, Water Sprites, Frogbit. As said before.. hornwort may get messy. Java moss is DEAD simple. You could probably grow it in a closet. It is just not the prettiest thing out there. Java ferns can be attached to driftwood, which makes it easy to move and clean around. The problem is, to make a big dent in your nitrates, I would guess you need quite a few plants. This may not fit into your budget/style/etc.
> 
> Hope this helps a little bit. Good luck.


Thanks a lot! I appreciate all the research you did for me, and thanks for the comment about my tank!

What did you like, specifically, about the tank, and what didn't you like? I only ask so I can get some constructive input/criticism on what I can make changes on (save for switching completely to real plants right now).


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think you should just keep it simple at this point. Lay off feeding for few days and test the water again. You can test everyday. I would just test ammonia and nitrite and see if they are going down from day to day. Re-evaluate after a few days if it hasn't gone down. Your values aren't excessively high and your fish should tolerate it okay.

You sound a little confused on the testing of ph......the actual testing for ph has nothing to do with fish....the result, yes. If you test with the high test kit and it sits at the lowest readable range of that kit....then possibly it is even lower still, but the test is incapable of any lower reading. At that point it becomes necessary to test with the standard kit to see if the value is lower than what the high kit can read. Sometimes it is the same. If you already completely understood this, sorry to assume you were a tad confused.

I also think your filtration is probably adequate. The fact that you have goldfish abd possibly some overfeeding may be playing havoc on everything. Once it is under control I think you'll be fine. My buddy has just the AC 110 on a 55gal tank and probably a 100 fish, never does water changes, and usually doesn't have any issues.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> I think you should just keep it simple at this point. Lay off feeding for few days and test the water again. You can test everyday. I would just test ammonia and nitrite and see if they are going down from day to day. Re-evaluate after a few days if it hasn't gone down. Your values aren't excessively high and your fish should tolerate it okay.


Every day!?! I'll lay off the feeding, but I don't know about testing every day...



> You sound a little confused on the testing of ph......the actual testing for ph has nothing to do with fish....the result, yes. If you test with the high test kit and it sits at the lowest readable range of that kit....then possibly it is even lower still, but the test is incapable of any lower reading. At that point it becomes necessary to test with the standard kit to see if the value is lower than what the high kit can read. Sometimes it is the same. If you already completely understood this, sorry to assume you were a tad confused.


Well, I'm only going by what API's instructions for the PH tests indicated -- they said that "certain species tolerate or prefer a certain Ph," and based on this, for goldfish, I was lead to use the High Range Ph test because that's the "number" goldfish fell into...



> I also think your filtration is probably adequate. The fact that you have goldfish abd possibly some overfeeding may be playing havoc on everything. Once it is under control I think you'll be fine. My buddy has just the AC 110 on a 55gal tank and probably a 100 fish, never does water changes, and usually doesn't have any issues.


I am definitely going to cut back on the feeding, but...

Let me see if I got this right...you're suggesting that a friend of yours has a 55 gallon with one AquaClear 110 with *100 fish* in it...and never does water changes at all?

What kind of fish are in the tank?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Every day!?! I'll lay off the feeding, but I don't know about testing every day...
> 
> Well, I'm only going by what API's instructions for the PH tests indicated -- they said that "certain species tolerate or prefer a certain Ph," and based on this, for goldfish, I was lead to use the High Range Ph test because that's the "number" goldfish fell into...
> 
> ...


Testing only takes a few minutes...just a suggestion. When you're having issues frequent testing is necessary. Once you've got it under control, then you can back off to weekly or bi-weekly.

The API list of fish and what ph they "generally" do better in is more a guide for keeping fish. How to conduct the test has nothing to do with the list of fish....at least not until AFTER you have completed the test and you know what ph you have. Then you can go buy those fish. 

My friend has mostly guppies, but all are livebearers. Not suggesting you do the same as he, as his tanks look really nasty but the fish do fairly well. Just saying that your filter is "probably" adequate. I really don't understand his ways. He's been keeping fish for 40 yrs but doesn't care about doing ANY work to keep it looking nice.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Testing only takes a few minutes...just a suggestion. When you're having issues frequent testing is necessary. Once you've got it under control, then you can back off to weekly or bi-weekly.


Well, I didn't think it was really "out" of control -- is that what you are hinting at? 



> The API list of fish and what ph they "generally" do better in is more a guide for keeping fish. How to conduct the test has nothing to do with the list of fish....at least not until AFTER you have completed the test and you know what ph you have. Then you can go buy those fish.


Okay, well that makes sense, but that's totally not how I read into that at all, via the booklet of instructions... 



> My friend has mostly guppies, but all are livebearers. Not suggesting you do the same as he, as his tanks look really nasty but the fish do fairly well. Just saying that your filter is "probably" adequate. I really don't understand his ways. He's been keeping fish for 40 yrs but doesn't care about doing ANY work to keep it looking nice.


Oh...you didn't say in the last post that his water looked _really nasty_...:fish-in-a-bag::fish-in-a-bag:


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Water looks fine. Just the gravel, ornaments, etc, etc, are all covered in algae, extremely dirty on the bottom.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Water looks fine. Just the gravel, ornaments, etc, etc, are all covered in algae, extremely dirty on the bottom.


And that's attributed to the lack of any water changes?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> And that's attributed to the lack of any water changes?


General maintenance, yes, of which water changes are a part of. He does nothing, lol. It's also a non-planted tank.

I think the best thing you could do is see if you could trade your goldfish in for something less dirty to get you to a lower demand of maintenance. JMO.


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## Martini2108 (Jul 23, 2010)

I do agree with JR on seeing if you can swap out the goldfish (unless you love em) for something that produces less waste. Madagascar Rainbows are nice and friendly, also there's always gourami's , which many people on this fourm adore. In a 55 you could go with some angle's too.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Martini2108 said:


> I do agree with JR on seeing if you can swap out the goldfish (unless you love em) for something that produces less waste. Madagascar Rainbows are nice and friendly, also there's always gourami's , which many people on this fourm adore. In a 55 you could go with some angle's too.


I don't have a 55, I have a 60 (with respect, I don't understand why no one on this board seemingly glances at anyone's signature to see what they've got running...) and while I appreciate the suggestion between you and JR, I want to continue caring for the fancytail goldies for now, as I really am into them. When I kept tropicals, many many years ago when I was younger, I kept gouramis, angels, mollies...you name it. But I found that I couldn't properly balance a community tank based on the species -- most of the time, my gouramis killed my angels by chasing them and eventually eating their fins off, and territorial issues like that...of course, eventually, I learned which species mix with what, but I always had this issue somehow...I even had elephant noses that at one point jumped out of the tank and ended up on the carpeting...

Right now, I'd like to stick to goldfish, as that's my interest as well as my wife's (who appears in my avatar with her twin sister) -- perhaps later down the road if this biosystem crashes, I will consider switching species...


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## Martini2108 (Jul 23, 2010)

lol sorry for the wrong tank size. But my wife loves goldfish (I wont let her get any dont like the waste they make) and I can understand wanting to stay with them mixing tropical fish can get really irritating, can't tell you how many I've lost in the process of figuring out who works well with who. Anyway the only thing with keeping gold's is keeping up with your tank maintenance, again I will say cutting down the food (like you have said you are) will help a lot. Have a 25G that stayed dirty no matter what I did, add massive cleaning crew, change water every 3 days, get better filtration nothing, cut back on how much food went into the tank MIRACLE the tank cleared up.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Martini2108 said:


> lol sorry for the wrong tank size. But my wife loves goldfish (I wont let her get any dont like the waste they make) and I can understand wanting to stay with them mixing tropical fish can get really irritating, can't tell you how many I've lost in the process of figuring out who works well with who. Anyway the only thing with keeping gold's is keeping up with your tank maintenance, again I will say cutting down the food (like you have said you are) will help a lot. Have a 25G that stayed dirty no matter what I did, add massive cleaning crew, change water every 3 days, get better filtration nothing, cut back on how much food went into the tank MIRACLE the tank cleared up.


No worries -- and indeed I shall reduce the amount of times I feed. Right now, I'll cut it to once daily. 

Let's get the thread back on track in terms of the test results I got...

So, essentially, all I have to do is keep my eye on which values?

-Nitrates
-Ammonia
-Ph

Anything else? NITRITES are good at zero, correct?

BTW...how did you end up clearing that tank that was always dirty?


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

ClinicaTerra said:


> I have been thinking about getting rid of the AquaClear's carbon pouch and replacing it with a pack of Seachem Purigen, to sit right under the biomax -- would that be suitable?


I haven't used purigen personally, but that is the beauty of the aquaclears.. they're more like a cannister filter where you pick and choose what you want on each layer. I think the posts suggesting you lighten your feeding schedule will probably bring things down to zeros a lot faster, and better in the long run. I feed mine once a day, and skip a day a couple of times a week. Fish are opportunistic eaters, eating whatever and whenever they can. You really have to regulate it for them to keep them healthy. I actually didn't feed any fish while I was gone for thanksgiving (4 days). Everyone was happy as could be when I got back. Bettas are often victims of overfeeding and under-exercising due to people keeping them in little cups. Not sure if all I say applies to goldies, but I'd guess they'd be fine for several days without food.



> It also doesn't help, I'm sure, that my Aqueon's filter cartridges have exhausted carbon in them -- what can I do for these? Can I just rinse the floss packs out and put them back in the filter?


You can replace the cartridge with a new one if you want the carbon, but lately I've just been giving mine a good rinse in the old tank water before I throw the water out (better to rinse it in dechlorinated water if you can). Some people cut the cartridge open, dump the charcoal, and fill it with the filter floss material you can buy at the petstore to filter a little more thoroughly. Eventually the thing will probably have to be replaced when its too nasty, or falling apart.



> The most difficult thing was reading the Nitrate number, because the test tube turned a dark orange, which indicates somewhere in the 40 ppm range, but it was so difficult to make out because when I compared the water to the chart, it seemed like it could have matched up with at least three variations of the orange boxes...how do I know which one is my reading?


Yeah.. I have the same trouble with some of the tests on there. They can be hard to tell apart to my eyes. I just guesstimate.. I tell people if I can't really differentiate a number and am asking advice. Thats really all you can do.





> Thanks a lot! I appreciate all the research you did for me, and thanks for the comment about my tank!
> 
> What did you like, specifically, about the tank, and what didn't you like? I only ask so I can get some constructive input/criticism on what I can make changes on (save for switching completely to real plants right now).


No problem.. I'm always asking other people for advice/help too. It's why we're all here 

As for your tank.. as I said, I looked at the same boat ornament, and I like the pirate skull a lot. A pirate theme would have been my first choice if not for the kids. I also like the color mix in there. If you're using the plastic plants, it is fun to really mix up the colors. Our gravel mix is actually similar.. but we saw white gravel that was glow-in-the-dark and had to get that and mixed it with dark blue. It unfortunately doesnt glow really great. We have some glofish in the tank, and I think evenatually we'll try to fit a blacklight in the hood somehow. Would be awesome with glofish florescing and glow-in-the-dark gravel... *w3


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Okay, I looked over the operating manual on the AquaClear 110, and I see what they're doing. It looks pretty good, actually. But if you're still getting a positive result on your ammonia, either you're not done cycling (haven't cultured enough biofilter organisms to handle the ammonia output of your goldfish) or you haven't got enough filtration, or you're overfeeding or some combination of those, simply because you've got that ammonia.

Why are we having hissy fits about the ammonia? Ammonia burns. It can burn the delicate tissues of your fish's gills. It stresses your fish and makes it harder for them to fight infection. Secondary infections can set in after awhile. Skin that is compromised is that much easier for bacteria, viruses and parasites to penetrate.

PH test - yes, ideally you should get a reading in the range that is ideal for goldfish, but you're not getting a readable reading in that range, probably your ph isn't ideal right now. You'll probably get an accurate, readable reading with that other test because that is probably where your PH actually is. It is probably related to why you're still getting ammonia readings and so on. When your water is in shape, likely your PH will be, too. Try doing a PH test on your tap water as it comes out of your faucet, just to see what your tap water usually is, 'cause that's the PH that is going to be the easiest for you to maintain. I think you'll find your tap water is right around where you'd want it to be for the goldies. Don't worry, we'll get this worked out with you. 

Yes, everybody would like you to adopt their favorite solution for your tank, but you have every right to say "no, I want a non-planted goldfish tank". One of the things that we all need to wrap our heads around is figuring out how better to suit our advice to the needs of the people asking us for help.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

mfgann said:


> I haven't used purigen personally, but that is the beauty of the aquaclears.. they're more like a cannister filter where you pick and choose what you want on each layer. I think the posts suggesting you lighten your feeding schedule will probably bring things down to zeros a lot faster, and better in the long run. I feed mine once a day, and skip a day a couple of times a week. Fish are opportunistic eaters, eating whatever and whenever they can. You really have to regulate it for them to keep them healthy. I actually didn't feed any fish while I was gone for thanksgiving (4 days). Everyone was happy as could be when I got back. Bettas are often victims of overfeeding and under-exercising due to people keeping them in little cups. Not sure if all I say applies to goldies, but I'd guess they'd be fine for several days without food.


Okay, well, I'm definitely starting the once-a-day regiment beginning today...



> You can replace the cartridge with a new one if you want the carbon, but lately I've just been giving mine a good rinse in the old tank water before I throw the water out (better to rinse it in dechlorinated water if you can). Some people cut the cartridge open, dump the charcoal, and fill it with the filter floss material you can buy at the petstore to filter a little more thoroughly. Eventually the thing will probably have to be replaced when its too nasty, or falling apart.


I'm told the carbon is useless after some time anyway, which must have expired on my cartridges, so if that's the case, is it okay to rinse off the gunk that's trapped on the white cotton pads of these things (either in tank water removed or taking the chance with a blast from kitchen sink gun tap water)? 



> Yeah.. I have the same trouble with some of the tests on there. They can be hard to tell apart to my eyes. I just guesstimate.. I tell people if I can't really differentiate a number and am asking advice. Thats really all you can do.


But how do I know which of those orange areas with regard to the Nitrate matches the best with the color in my test tubes? It seems like three different boxes could be "correct"...



> No problem.. I'm always asking other people for advice/help too. It's why we're all here






> As for your tank.. as I said, I looked at the same boat ornament, and I like the pirate skull a lot. A pirate theme would have been my first choice if not for the kids. I also like the color mix in there. If you're using the plastic plants, it is fun to really mix up the colors. Our gravel mix is actually similar.. but we saw white gravel that was glow-in-the-dark and had to get that and mixed it with dark blue. It unfortunately doesnt glow really great. We have some glofish in the tank, and I think evenatually we'll try to fit a blacklight in the hood somehow. Would be awesome with glofish florescing and glow-in-the-dark gravel... *w3


Ahhh yes -- I apologize! I recall now that you were the one that mentioned you were into the nautical stuff from being in the Navy, yes? Thanks for the comments regarding the plants and gravel and such...

White glow in the dark gravel? Dang I should have looked into that...

There seems to be no limit to what you can do with tank accessories -- from winding, snaking bubble walls filled with LED lights to flashing volcanoes errupting (which you know about)...it's like the car accessory market...there's just no way someone could have everything that's offered for their tanks or cars or...


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## Martini2108 (Jul 23, 2010)

Well I had to add a sufficient amount of bottom feeders as it stands right now(All fish that will get to large for a 25G have larger tanks waiting already) 2 clown loach's, 1 yoyo loach about 4", 1 synodontis angelicus, 1 royal plecto, and 2 fiddler crabs, how might I add are really funny to watch argue over the rock and wood. All that combined with less food it cleared up quick.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Okay, I looked over the operating manual on the AquaClear 110, and I see what they're doing. It looks pretty good, actually.


Do you mean the way the media stacks? If so, yes, right now I have it running in the "stock" configuration based on the media supplied in the box -- that is, the sponge block on bottom, the carbon pouch and then the biomax pellets...is this OK? Furthermore, can I replace the carbon pouch with a pack of Purigen? 



> But if you're still getting a positive result on your ammonia, either you're not done cycling (haven't cultured enough biofilter organisms to handle the ammonia output of your goldfish) or you haven't got enough filtration, or you're overfeeding or some combination of those, simply because you've got that ammonia.
> 
> Why are we having hissy fits about the ammonia? Ammonia burns. It can burn the delicate tissues of your fish's gills. It stresses your fish and makes it harder for them to fight infection. Secondary infections can set in after awhile. Skin that is compromised is that much easier for bacteria, viruses and parasites to penetrate.


Oh, yes, I totally get why ammonia is bad -- I realize it burns their gills and such; I want to get it under control, thus I am beginning with cutting back on the feeding...



> PH test - yes, ideally you should get a reading in the range that is ideal for goldfish, but you're not getting a readable reading in that range, probably your ph isn't ideal right now. You'll probably get an accurate, readable reading with that other test because that is probably where your PH actually is. It is probably related to why you're still getting ammonia readings and so on. When your water is in shape, likely your PH will be, too. Try doing a PH test on your tap water as it comes out of your faucet, just to see what your tap water usually is, 'cause that's the PH that is going to be the easiest for you to maintain. I think you'll find your tap water is right around where you'd want it to be for the goldies. Don't worry, we'll get this worked out with you.


Thanks a bunch... 



> Yes, everybody would like you to adopt their favorite solution for your tank, but you have every right to say "no, I want a non-planted goldfish tank". One of the things that we all need to wrap our heads around is figuring out how better to suit our advice to the needs of the people asking us for help.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Okay, guys and gals. It's been two days since my water change, and I was advised that this is the time to take the next series of readings from the API Master Kit, and so here are the results, again, following the directions _explicitly_...
> 
> *High Range Ph (based on keeping goldfish; I didn't have to do the standard Ph test according to the instructions from API): 7.4 or possibly lower, which isn't indicated on the chart but it seems like my color match was lighter than the yellowish/green bar that is first on the chart...
> 
> ...


Well, the good news is that your numbers improved a bit and, even though ammonia is not zero, it is at least low. I'm still pretty new at this, but I think that puts it at acceptable for the short term until you can get ammonia to zero. The nitrates sound a little high so you may want to increase your frequency of partial water changes until you get it below 40 at the most.

I've always had trouble with the nitrate reading as well. What I do is to find a nice white light source (like a CFL or something that doesn't give a yellowish tint). Then I hold the white of the card about an inch behind the vial so that the shadow of the vial isn't on the card (this alone can make the color appear one step darker). It's still touch, but I can usually estimate which one its closest to. High range pH is another one I have trouble discerning.

You mentioned that you were considering cleaning the cotton padding in your filter that had gunk on it? I'm not familiar with the aqueon setup, but there are a couple points I wanted to add here. In my filter, gunk typically falls into the algae category or the dietrus (fish waste) category. If it is some form of algae, then you basically just don't want it to block flow through your filter. Anything else like fish waste and uneaten food should be removed. As this stuff decomposes on your filter, it is releasing more ammonia. So if you remove it before it decomposes, you can reduce your ammonia concentration. 

Now also keep in mind that the bacteria that are consuming the ammonia and nitrites live on just about every surface in your tank including these cottony pads. Sponges and floss filters have a large surface area so they will house a lot more of your beneficial bacteria than smooth surfaces like your tank glass. So, basically, you want to clean off the gunk, but not the bacteria. Luckily, the bacteria basically cement themselves to the surface they grow on, so they will not be easily lost when you mechanically clean the filter. But if you run them under chlorinated tap water, you are guaranteed to kill them off (that is, after all, the point of chlorinating tap water).

That said, I like to routinely (~2 weeks) put my floss filters into a bucket of just removed tank water and rub gently with my hand to dislodge any debris. I've been using the same floss filter (with old carbon in it) for the 1 year I've been running my tank.

Along a similar note, I don't recall if you mentioned a gravel vacuum or not, but these are another excellent way to remove fish waste and uneaten food from the tank before it decomposes into ammonia. If you are not already doing this, I think it would be very helpful.

Eventually, your bacterial colonies will try to grow to a size that can accommodate your ammonia production. You just have to keep that production rate consistent and within a reasonable range. You do that primarily by cleaning the tank and controlling your feeding level.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Do you mean the way the media stacks? If so, yes, right now I have it running in the "stock" configuration based on the media supplied in the box -- that is, the sponge block on bottom, the carbon pouch and then the biomax pellets...is this OK? Furthermore, can I replace the carbon pouch with a pack of Purigen?
> 
> Yeah, I think the Purigen would probably be fine. Carbon is cheap, and it works for a little while, which is why companies love to use it, you need to replace constantly. I'd say skip the carbon. I've never used Purigen, but based on the manufacturer's info, it sounds like great stuff. If you know somebody who sews, I'd ask them to sew you a drawstring net bag (or sometimes you can just buy these at the LFS) to put it in, so you can take it out and treat it per their directions and then just put it back in your filter.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

PolymerTim said:


> Well, the good news is that your numbers improved a bit and, even though ammonia is not zero, it is at least low. I'm still pretty new at this, but I think that puts it at acceptable for the short term until you can get ammonia to zero. The nitrates sound a little high so you may want to increase your frequency of partial water changes until you get it below 40 at the most.


Thanks, Tim. Appreciate the feedback; indeed, it seems my ammonia is staying around 0.25, and this could just be because they're goldfish and because of my feeding routine. I have immediately cut back to feeding just once a day for now to see what that does. 



> I've always had trouble with the nitrate reading as well. What I do is to find a nice white light source (like a CFL or something that doesn't give a yellowish tint). Then I hold the white of the card about an inch behind the vial so that the shadow of the vial isn't on the card (this alone can make the color appear one step darker). It's still touch, but I can usually estimate which one its closest to. High range pH is another one I have trouble discerning.


Some of these tests are really tough to make out...my biggest issue is that the color in the test tube can easily match, sometimes, more than one level of color on the chart...



> You mentioned that you were considering cleaning the cotton padding in your filter that had gunk on it? I'm not familiar with the aqueon setup, but there are a couple points I wanted to add here. In my filter, gunk typically falls into the algae category or the dietrus (fish waste) category. If it is some form of algae, then you basically just don't want it to block flow through your filter. Anything else like fish waste and uneaten food should be removed. As this stuff decomposes on your filter, it is releasing more ammonia. So if you remove it before it decomposes, you can reduce your ammonia concentration.


I understand...so what do you recommend I do with these "carbon floss insert cartridges" that my Aqueon takes? 



> Now also keep in mind that the bacteria that are consuming the ammonia and nitrites live on just about every surface in your tank including these cottony pads. Sponges and floss filters have a large surface area so they will house a lot more of your beneficial bacteria than smooth surfaces like your tank glass. So, basically, you want to clean off the gunk, but not the bacteria. Luckily, the bacteria basically cement themselves to the surface they grow on, so they will not be easily lost when you mechanically clean the filter. But if you run them under chlorinated tap water, you are guaranteed to kill them off (that is, after all, the point of chlorinating tap water).


I understand; but would it really harm all that much if I were to rinse just these cartridge pads in tap water quickly just to get some of the "black gunk" off the floss pads? I mean, wouldn't there still be plenty of beneficial bacteria on the gravel, biogrids, AquaClear sponge, etc? 



> That said, I like to routinely (~2 weeks) put my floss filters into a bucket of just removed tank water and rub gently with my hand to dislodge any debris. I've been using the same floss filter (with old carbon in it) for the 1 year I've been running my tank.


Okay -- this gets a bit closer to what I wanted to know; it sounds like we're running similar floss/carbon carts...and I have heard of people just "dunking" their pads in old tank water to remove gunk, but I have also received advice that I can blast these pads with water from kitchen sink gun and it would be okay too...

Essentially, are you suggesting that these floss cartridge inserts that slide into the HOB filters can simply be rinsed and reused? The same ones over and over? 



> Along a similar note, I don't recall if you mentioned a gravel vacuum or not, but these are another excellent way to remove fish waste and uneaten food from the tank before it decomposes into ammonia. If you are not already doing this, I think it would be very helpful.


Oh dear G-d...have you followed any of my other threads dealing with gravel vacs and water changes??? 



> Eventually, your bacterial colonies will try to grow to a size that can accommodate your ammonia production. You just have to keep that production rate consistent and within a reasonable range. You do that primarily by cleaning the tank and controlling your feeding level.


Well, I've already adjusted their feeding schedule.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Yeah, I think the Purigen would probably be fine. Carbon is cheap, and it works for a little while, which is why companies love to use it, you need to replace constantly. I'd say skip the carbon. I've never used Purigen, but based on the manufacturer's info, it sounds like great stuff. If you know somebody who sews, I'd ask them to sew you a drawstring net bag (or sometimes you can just buy these at the LFS) to put it in, so you can take it out and treat it per their directions and then just put it back in your filter.


I believe the prepackaged Purigen comes in some kind of sock that can be just dropped into the filter...

So, do you recommend doing this configuration? : Sponge block on bottom, Purigen sack, biomax ceramic pellets on top?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If you try and wash your filter media with tap water straight from the sink you risk the chance of another ammonia spike and causing some of the same issues you are going through now. You don't have to use tank water. You can put a little water in a bucket and treat it with your aquarium water conditioner and use that to rinse them.

Did your ammonia/nitrite readings come down?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> If you try and wash your filter media with tap water straight from the sink you risk the chance of another ammonia spike and causing some of the same issues you are going through now. You don't have to use tank water. You can put a little water in a bucket and treat it with your aquarium water conditioner and use that to rinse them.
> 
> Did your ammonia/nitrite readings come down?


I didn't do another test on them...


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

The purigen comes with its own sock deal? Cool. Yes, it sounds like a good configuration. I'd certainly try it that way to start out and see how things go.


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