# Angel stopped eating this morning



## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

This morning I was following my normal routine of add fertilizers, wait an hour then feed when I noticed my all black angel wouldn't eat his favorite meal... Frozen bloodworms. He's been the low man on the totem pole between he and the other angel, and he has some damage on his top fin, which I had chalked up to roughhousing. When I got home from work, I tried to feed a little flake food to see if he had decided to eat. He swam up to it and just backed away. I noticed a bit of a stringy whiteish turd hanging out that didn't look normal. I set up the hospital with water from the display tank and moved him to QT for observation and treatment if needed. My main tank water is good, pH is 7.4, ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is 5ppm. The last time there was a problem, I waited too long and it got out of control, so I am trying to get this guy patched up right away. Any ideas on what I might be facing? There are no physical symptoms besides the top fin, and that is likely from his slightly aggressive tankmate. It could be fin rot, but I am leaning towards bullying. There is no sign of ich either. I'm pretty well stocked up on meds, so I probably have something handy to treat whatever it is, but I just am not sure which route to take. Thanks everybody.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

nh murph said:


> This morning I was following my normal routine of add fertilizers, wait an hour then feed when I noticed my all black angel wouldn't eat his favorite meal... Frozen bloodworms. He's been the low man on the totem pole between he and the other angel, and he has some damage on his top fin, which I had chalked up to roughhousing. When I got home from work, I tried to feed a little flake food to see if he had decided to eat. He swam up to it and just backed away. I noticed a bit of a stringy whiteish turd hanging out that didn't look normal. I set up the hospital with water from the display tank and moved him to QT for observation and treatment if needed. My main tank water is good, pH is 7.4, ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is 5ppm. The last time there was a problem, I waited too long and it got out of control, so I am trying to get this guy patched up right away. Any ideas on what I might be facing? There are no physical symptoms besides the top fin, and that is likely from his slightly aggressive tankmate. It could be fin rot, but I am leaning towards bullying. There is no sign of ich either. I'm pretty well stocked up on meds, so I probably have something handy to treat whatever it is, but I just am not sure which route to take. Thanks everybody.


You did good to isolate him and keep a close eye.
I've had my Angels go on a fast periodically but start eating in a couple of days. 

Being picked on by others is stress and sometimes that's all it is. 
I'd give it a wait-n-see at this point.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Turn up the heat a bit since he's in a tank as a solo act, 85F. This increases metabolism, thus appetite. If that doesn't work after a few days it's time for metronidazole.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

Tolak said:


> Turn up the heat a bit since he's in a tank as a solo act, 85F. This increases metabolism, thus appetite. If that doesn't work after a few days it's time for metronidazole.


Sorry but I disagree with this advise.....
The Angel sounds like he was under stress by being bullied in the main tank....Raising the temperature to 85°F is stressful to fish, something he doesn't need at this point. 

Leave him at normal temp and watch him...try feeding at very small amounts as not to pollute the tank. 
Medicate only when symptoms tell you what the issue is, if there actually is an issue.


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

My display tank stays at 79. The heater never even comes on. I keep the QT at the same temp. I tried a few bloodworms this morning and he still isn't interested. I'm nervous because I am leaving town on Sat. For a few days. We have a girl staying at the house to watch the critters and fortunately she has kept fish before so she can handle tasks like dosing meds and water changes. Hopefully I get it figured out before I leave so I can have her maintain treatment.


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## Buerkletucson (Apr 8, 2014)

You try some frozen brine shrimp?
My Angels love it! *pc


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

I alternate frozen shrimp and bloodworms every other day. I throw some flake in on occasion but they typically get frozen food. My angels seem to prefer the bloodworms but the rest of the fish in there really seem to like the shrimp. I'll toss some shrimp in this afternoon and see if he goes for it.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Buerkletucson said:


> Sorry but I disagree with this advise.....
> The Angel sounds like he was under stress by being bullied in the main tank....Raising the temperature to 85°F is stressful to fish, something he doesn't need at this point.
> 
> Leave him at normal temp and watch him...try feeding at very small amounts as not to pollute the tank.
> Medicate only when symptoms tell you what the issue is, if there actually is an issue.



Optimal range for angels and their immune system is 78 to 80. A few days of warmer temps won't stress the angel out as long as an airstone is added to keep the o2 levels higher.


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

He's still not eating... I guess melancholy would be a good descriptive word for his behavior. He usually swims up to the glass when I walk up to the tank, but hasn't been since he stopped eating. Seems to be hanging lower in the tank too.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If he had white stringy poop before he stopped eating and it was not his normal poop,then the metro would be a good idea.Discus keepers do medical treatments on a schedule to prevent issues before they arise.The white poop would lead me in the internal parasite direction.
Metronidazole; by SeaChem, API, More


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Not eating, abnormal behavior such as hanging towards the bottom or back of the tank, 2 out of 3 for internal protizoans. I keep my angel tanks in the low to mid 80's, this includes tanks that house pairs, hatching tanks, growout tanks, and pairing tanks. I've seen countless angels go through this, seeing as I've bred countless thousands over more than 10 years, real common with pairing situations & the associated aggressive behavior. 78-80F is great for keeping them in a show tank, though you'd better feed them considerably less, and totally avoid foods heavy in protein such as bloodworms. 

85F will in no way stress angels, they can handle higher temperatures as well as if not better than discus. Most people tend to keep them at too low of a temperature, which lowers their metabolism, as well as feed to heavy at this temperature, perfect recipe for internal issues. Add in a bit of stress with a fish that often has internal flagellates as part of the normal digestive flora and bam, you have the issue you are describing. Keep angels in the same manner you would discus & you'll avoid a lot of problems.

If you think the 85F is harsh you're not going to like the 90F+ with the metro treatment. I'll post my long time C&P for fixing this if you like, been using it for many years, reposted many places. You might want to scroll down to the flagellates part of this topic on Steve's site to ease your mind that I'm not full of beans; General Care of Angelfish


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

Is the Tetra Parasite Guard a good alternative? I have that stuff on hand, and unfortunately my LFS does not carry Seachem products, so I'd have to order it.


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

Tolak said:


> Not eating, abnormal behavior such as hanging towards the bottom or back of the tank, 2 out of 3 for internal protizoans. I keep my angel tanks in the low to mid 80's, this includes tanks that house pairs, hatching tanks, growout tanks, and pairing tanks. I've seen countless angels go through this, seeing as I've bred countless thousands over more than 10 years, real common with pairing situations & the associated aggressive behavior. 78-80F is great for keeping them in a show tank, though you'd better feed them considerably less, and totally avoid foods heavy in protein such as bloodworms.
> 
> 85F will in no way stress angels, they can handle higher temperatures as well as if not better than discus. Most people tend to keep them at too low of a temperature, which lowers their metabolism, as well as feed to heavy at this temperature, perfect recipe for internal issues. Add in a bit of stress with a fish that often has internal flagellates as part of the normal digestive flora and bam, you have the issue you are describing. Keep angels in the same manner you would discus & you'll avoid a lot of problems.
> 
> If you think the 85F is harsh you're not going to like the 90F+ with the metro treatment. I'll post my long time C&P for fixing this if you like, been using it for many years, reposted many places. You might want to scroll down to the flagellates part of this topic on Steve's site to ease your mind that I'm not full of beans; General Care of Angelfish


That was a good read. I learned quite a bit from your link. Thanks!


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

Got home from the trip and the black angel is doing much better! I put him on Tetra Parasite Guard before I left and gave instructions to the girl that house sits. She did a great job, and the black one seems quite healthy. I noticed that the yellow one still in the main tank is starting to show the same symptoms as the black one did. I guess I'll put the black one back in the main tank and QT the yellow one for a round of the same meds. I brought the main tank up to 82 and the QT is at 85 degrees. Had to get a bigger heater for the QT to get it that warm.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I think I would treat the main tank?Moving a healthy/recovered fish back into a tank that just housed a sick fish sounds like a recipe for repeated illness.Often many illness can be transported through the water.Glad to hear the one is getting better though!


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## nh murph (Mar 21, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> I think I would treat the main tank?Moving a healthy/recovered fish back into a tank that just housed a sick fish sounds like a recipe for repeated illness.Often many illness can be transported through the water.Glad to hear the one is getting better though!


Good point. I was thinking that after I posted.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I would treat every tank you have with the stuff, just as a safeguard.


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