# I'm Pretty Much at my Wits' End...Help with a 60-Gallon Fancytail Tank...



## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Hello, Forum.

First-time poster here, so please go slow and welcome me with some kid gloves!

Here's the situation: We've been running a 60-gallon rectangular since I'd say the summer and have been, up until now, successfully keeping three fancytail goldies -- however, the way in which we arrived at the state we're in now, and how we set this tank up via unorthodox methods of cycling, etc. is a whole different discussion, which I'll get into, because it's kind of boggling to say the least...

Upon setting up the tank months ago, we rinsed all the glass, gravel, ornaments and artificial planting, filled it with tap water, treated it with conditioner, and started running an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 filter plus two bubble walls for extra aeration. We let the tank run like this for some time, without adding Stability or any chemical to do a cycle -- I got the strip test kit from Jungle (I know not as good as the chemical kits, but...) and tested the water until everything came back in the "safe" zone, including ammonia. Then, we introduced two fancytails, one being a Red Cap Oranda (medium-small sized) and they both seemed to thrive. While the water began getting a little funky and settling into typical New Tank Syndrome cloudyness, we eventually waited and tested the water again, to where it was again "safe" and so we added a third fancytail in a gold and black color arrangement. 

Since that time, the tank has been ridiculously unstable in just so many ways -- we still have all three fish, and they appear to be doing well, but almost from the very beginning, our water has been horiffically cloudy and never got better...then, I thought one of the goldies came down with Ich, so we started treating with Kordon's Rid-Ich, which stained everything in the tank as well as our carpets from drips. On a recommendation from another site, I stopped the Rid-Ich (and subsequently the Stability routine I was doing) and began treating with heat and salt. When the heater we bought accidentally burned our carpets of our brand new house, I had enough of the heat method -- although that wasn't really what made me stop medicating. It seems the Ich turned out to be an apparent growth spurt sign on the goldfish's wen, and so the Ich was misdiagnosed amidst stained tank, carpet and other headaches. 

So, the Ich was not treated any longer, and I went ahead and added a second filter -- an Aqueon QuietFlow 20 -- just to supplement the larger 55 model on the other end of the tank. This seemed to prove to do nothing, as the water quality didn't improve, and I was told I was severely underfiltering my goldie tank. In the middle, we attempted water changes which turned out to be a DISASTER -- we were using the Top Fin gravel vac/syphon that we subsequently ended up returning because we couldn't get it to work after multiple tries and gallons of spilled water on our rugs; eventually, we kept one and attempted the water change again, only to be frustrated once more and heading towards the old fashioned vase-in-water removal of the water which was BACKBREAKING and TIME CONSUMING. When everything in our room was soaked with water, we gave up on water changes and gravel vacs.

Still, the water is hazy (the Bacterial Bloom haze, not quite an Algae Bloom) and has never cleared -- just the other day, we went out and bought an AquaClear 110 filter and returned the small Aqueon for the 110 (I was advised this was the best HOB filter to buy and would be good with my other Aqueon for maximum filtration). I set up the 110 the correct way, with the sponge block, carbon and then biomax pellets in the media basket, but it has been running three days straight now and the water _still_ isn't clear...also, I had started Stability all over again during this time, and I have about three more days to go to finish the treatment...

Me and my wife are totally at our wits' end here with this whole thing; we're about two steps away from draining the tank and giving up. I realize it takes awhile for a tank to stabilize and cycle, thus clearing the water, but it just isn't happening no matter how much time passes. Plus, I also realize that goldfish are the hardest to keep in terms of clean tanks due to their waste and such, but why aren't TWO power filters clearing this water up? The water changes have been driving us nuts and we can't seem to get it right -- a python lead to a sink is out of the question in our house due to the location of the tank. 

Is there anyone that could assist with this ongoing cloudy water issue with our goldfish tank? Aside from the water changes, is there anything we can do to expedite the clean water arrival short of using one of those water cleaning chemicals (which I don't want to do)?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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## HUMAN1ESS (Oct 5, 2010)

To vacuum my tank I use a hose and syphon water out of a window. The to add water I fill 5 gallon buckets. It's a little rough but it gets the job done, plus I usually only do 15 gallon changes a week. It was a little messy at first (spilled a little clean water on the carpets) but you get pretty good at it after a while.


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

You need to keep up the water changes for the health of the fish. Being a new tank is one of the reasons for the bacterial bloom. It will eventually go away on its own if the water parameters are kept in check but will take time. Also how much lighting and for how long is it on? Can you give us the readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

You can also add seachem purigen to the filter to help clean up the cloudiness of the tank. It will come as a small bag or you can buy a larger amount in a bottle and you will need to put some into a filter bag that you can purchase at better lfs.

Goldies needs lots of filtration as they are very messy, and also lots of water changes. If you keep your house warm during the colder months you really don't need a heater on a goldie tank. They like cooler water.


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

The first thing I notice is your filtration in not enough. With fancy goldfish the filtration should be 10x's the size of the tank. So for the 60gallon you should be running filters that give you 6oogph (gallons per hour). Second thing, thoses test strips are junk, you need to get the drop kits, I know there a bit more but they are worth it. 
The water changes are very important for goldies and you should be changing 20% per week. I use 5gallon buckets to do mine, I have 3 I set up the night before and 3 empty. I'm not sure how you could confuss ich and wen growth, If you could post a picture to show what you are talking about I may be able to help a bit more. Aslo please post you water parameters, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, this will help to determine what is causing the cloudy water.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

susankat said:


> You need to keep up the water changes for the health of the fish. Being a new tank is one of the reasons for the bacterial bloom. It will eventually go away on its own if the water parameters are kept in check but will take time. Also how much lighting and for how long is it on? Can you give us the readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?


This isn't a planted tank (it contains artificial plants and ornaments) so I don't think the lighting is a major issue, unless it affects the water itself -- the lighting comes from an Aqueon fluorescent light strip which sits on the two glass tops covering the tank, beneath the wood canopy. The light is kept on just a couple of hours a day to feed and look at the fish. The only readings on those parameters you asked for can come from the strip kits -- I don't have the API chemical testers yet. The strips only divulge "safe," "danger," etc...

Would you like readings based on those? 



> You can also add seachem purigen to the filter to help clean up the cloudiness of the tank. It will come as a small bag or you can buy a larger amount in a bottle and you will need to put some into a filter bag that you can purchase at better lfs.


Yes -- I'm well aware of Purigen, and it's something I'd like to purchase and add at some point as I understand this will "polish" the water...do they come pre-arranged in a sack or bag ready to drop into the filter from Seachem? 



> Goldies needs lots of filtration as they are very messy, and also lots of water changes. If you keep your house warm during the colder months you really don't need a heater on a goldie tank. They like cooler water.


Yes, I am completely aware of the fact that they are a colder water fish, and we have no heat on during the winter months because we are in a desert climate in the Western portion of the U.S.; the tank is kept at room temperature year-round which seems to stay in the high-60s, according to my tank's thermometer.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

J-Pond said:


> The first thing I notice is your filtration in not enough. With fancy goldfish the filtration should be 10x's the size of the tank. So for the 60gallon you should be running filters that give you 6oogph (gallons per hour). Second thing, thoses test strips are junk, you need to get the drop kits, I know there a bit more but they are worth it.


I am working on getting the drop kits from API (is this a good one?) -- so bear with me there. Second, I don't understand why you would be saying my filtration isn't enough -- I JUST bought this AquaClear 110 to supplement the Aqueon QuietFlow 55, and according to specs, the AquaClear 110 cycles 500 gallons (U.S.) per hour, the QuietFlow somewhere around 325 gallons per hour...is this still not enough for a 60-gallon? 



> The water changes are very important for goldies and you should be changing 20% per week. I use 5gallon buckets to do mine, I have 3 I set up the night before and 3 empty. I'm not sure how you could confuss ich and wen growth, If you could post a picture to show what you are talking about I may be able to help a bit more. Aslo please post you water parameters, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, this will help to determine what is causing the cloudy water.


How can I confuse Ich with wen growth spurt? Easy -- the spot on top of the fish's head looked like a small salt/rock formation that easily resembles the "spotting" that accompanies Ich, however, it didn't spread to anywhere else on its body, nor was it on the gills or fins, so it was a misdiagnosis on my part. Remember I specifically asked in my very first post to go easy on me because I am new? Regardless, if you would have read the post in detail, you would have seen where I mentioned that the misdiagnosis is behind me now, as that was some time back and the three fish are doing fine (apparently). I did a massive water change after the misdiagnosis to remove the Rid-Ich, but it did stain everything in the tank blue (as well as parts of our carpets from spillage). 

The readings for the parameters, as I pointed out to the member before you, I can only provide via the strip test kit I have...I have to go out and get the API liquid based kit.


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## Borgey (Sep 12, 2010)

First of all do yourself a favor and get rid of the Aqueon filter. They are completely GARBAGE. If you're not open to a canister filter I would at least have two 110s on that tank since that's the best H.O.B filter out in my experience. Like you already know Goldfish have a very large bio load and cloudy water is most likely from just a big bacterial bloom without enough biological filtration. I would either go get a good canister filter or at least another 110. Don't let this discourage you, it happens to the best of us. Once everything evens out it's fairly easy. But until then you really need to keep up on water changes at least every other day. Once you start seeing Nitrates and no Ammonia then once a week.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Borgey said:


> First of all do yourself a favor and get rid of the Aqueon filter. They are completely GARBAGE.


Thanks Borgey.

Are you serious? Are they _that_ bad...even the bigger QuietFlow 55 I'm running now? 



> If you're not open to a canister filter I would at least have two 110s on that tank since that's the best H.O.B filter out in my experience. Like you already know Goldfish have a very large bio load and cloudy water is most likely from just a big bacterial bloom without enough biological filtration. I would either go get a good canister filter or at least another 110. Don't let this discourage you, it happens to the best of us. Once everything evens out it's fairly easy. But until then you really need to keep up on water changes at least every other day. Once you start seeing Nitrates and no Ammonia then once a week.


Indeed, I'm not really comfortable with going the canister route -- so another good HOB would be on the agenda. I too am thinking this is a bacterial bloom due to the fish's biowaste, but I really thought that with these two filters running, the water would get better and sustained. At any rate, how much of a water change do you recommend? More than 50%? It seems we disrupt the substrate, plants and fish pretty recklessly when we do these...*c/p*


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

How much food are you feeding the fish?? That seems to usually be the worst culprit for cloudy water. Try not feeding them for a few days. Fish can easily go 4 or 5 days without being fed. Although, I don't let them go more then 2 or 3. Feed them very little after the few days and watch them eat. If they can't eat it all in 2 minutes then they have too much.

I found my gravel cleaner a little tricky too. The instructions said to put it in the tank and shake it up and down a few times. What a crock!!! I put the siphon part in the tank, fill it up with water, take it back out while turned upside down, close my thumb on the other end of the hose and just hold it like that- siphon in the air and hose down lower and the water in the siphon will flow down and fill up the hose, when hose is full put it back in the tank and take your thumb off the other end and viola you've got suction.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> How much food are you feeding the fish?? That seems to usually be the worst culprit for cloudy water. Try not feeding them for a few days. Fish can easily go 4 or 5 days without being fed. Although, I don't let them go more then 2 or 3. Feed them very little after the few days and watch them eat. If they can't eat it all in 2 minutes then they have too much.


I'll try this, Amie, and report back -- although I don't think this is the cause of the bacterial bloom. 



> I found my gravel cleaner a little tricky too. The instructions said to put it in the tank and shake it up and down a few times. What a crock!!! I put the siphon part in the tank, fill it up with water, take it back out while turned upside down, close my thumb on the other end of the hose and just hold it like that- siphon in the air and hose down lower and the water in the siphon will flow down and fill up the hose, when hose is full put it back in the tank and take your thumb off the other end and viola you've got suction.


I'm lost already...*question


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm with Amie on the gravel vac usage. I was never able to get it to work by shaking it up and down, even though I've seen video online of people doing it. Either somethings wrong with my technique, or it is easier with some vacs than others. The good news is that to get a siphon going you simply have to get most of the tubing filled with water at the same time, one way or another (assuming the outlet is lower than the level of the water in the tank). I use a similar technique as Amie where I kink the tubing and scoop water from the tank into the bell and let it flow down the tubing. Once the tubing is full of water, lower the bell back into the tank angled upwards so that the bell fills with water without pushing a massive air bubble into the tubing. Then release the kink and the siphon will start.

As for cycling and cloudiness, it can take quite a while for the proper bacterial cultures to colonize and stabilize your tank. After a few months, I would've thought you'd be there, but many medications can disrupt bacterial colonies. Also, changing out your filter can set you back a bit. As for the Stability, effectiveness of instant-cycle type additives seems to be a bit sketchy at best. Sometimes they seem to work, but more often than not (based on customer reviews I've read) they don't. I think once you get the liquid test kit and get some numbers, we will have a better idea of what's going on.

Most likely, I think you are right that this is a bacterial bloom from a new tank chemical and biological imbalance. Filtration is good, but keep in mind that the biological portion of the filtration in your filters isn't very effective until the bacteria have colonized the filter.

Best of luck to you.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey, Tim, thanks for the reply...

Before I get into your suggestions and thoughts...is that a fish tank in a TV wall unit that I see in your pics?! Are you still cycling fishless? 



PolymerTim said:


> I'm with Amie on the gravel vac usage. I was never able to get it to work by shaking it up and down, even though I've seen video online of people doing it. Either somethings wrong with my technique, or it is easier with some vacs than others. The good news is that to get a siphon going you simply have to get most of the tubing filled with water at the same time, one way or another (assuming the outlet is lower than the level of the water in the tank). I use a similar technique as Amie where I kink the tubing and scoop water from the tank into the bell and let it flow down the tubing. Once the tubing is full of water, lower the bell back into the tank angled upwards so that the bell fills with water without pushing a massive air bubble into the tubing. Then release the kink and the siphon will start.


For us, as well, the up and down pumping NEVER worked with the Top Fin brand vac we had/have; all it did was push the fish around with too much water turbulence...



> As for cycling and cloudiness, it can take quite a while for the proper bacterial cultures to colonize and stabilize your tank. After a few months, I would've thought you'd be there, but many medications can disrupt bacterial colonies. Also, changing out your filter can set you back a bit. As for the Stability, effectiveness of instant-cycle type additives seems to be a bit sketchy at best. Sometimes they seem to work, but more often than not (based on customer reviews I've read) they don't. I think once you get the liquid test kit and get some numbers, we will have a better idea of what's going on.


Thanks for this; I too thought the cloudiness and haze would have been gone by now -- as I said, this tank has been running since the summer, at least...but we did do a Rid Ich treatment for awhile which as you said probably set things back, and now with the new AquaClear filter (although I truly would have thought this new filter would be doing something to help this problem...from owner's reviews I read on Amazon and other places, some people set the 110 up and saw clear water within hours and at the latest two days). At any rate, tomorrow is my last day of the Stability treatment, so after that, I'm not using it anymore -- it seems to have made my tank even cloudier, if that's even possible. If the Stability didn't kick start the cycle after first using it then breaking the routine, then using it again now and finishing the week out, I don't what to make of it. 

I'll try and get that kit next week at some point and report back with some readings; would the results from the color-coded test strips be of any help to you in analyzing some of my parameters? I realize they come out in "Safe/Unsafe" kind of generalized results, but being that this is all I have to work with right now, I figured I would ask...



> Most likely, I think you are right that this is a bacterial bloom from a new tank chemical and biological imbalance. Filtration is good, but keep in mind that the biological portion of the filtration in your filters isn't very effective until the bacteria have colonized the filter.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Thanks again -- but would a tank that's running since the summer months still be considered "new"?


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I find it takes 6 months for a tank to really settle down but I would have thought your tank should be cycled by now. When exaclty did you set it up? It could be that the meds messed up the cycle so it had to start again. If you post your ammonia and nitrite readings that would help others to know what is going on. 

Could your gravel or another decorative item be causing cloudy water? 

I'd also like to say welcome! And don't give up yet, you'll get there. You made a good start by getting a tank the right size for your fish, lots of people start with some thing like a 10 gallon with 5 goldfish, then it doesn't matter what advice you give it just isn't going to work. Your situation should be cureable.


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> I am working on getting the drop kits from API (is this a good one?) -- so bear with me there. Second, I don't understand why you would be saying my filtration isn't enough -- I JUST bought this AquaClear 110 to supplement the Aqueon QuietFlow 55, and according to specs, the AquaClear 110 cycles 500 gallons (U.S.) per hour, the QuietFlow somewhere around 325 gallons per hour...is this still not enough for a 60-gallon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I appologize if I sounded hasrh in my first responce. The API test kit is very good IMO, it is what I use. Regarding the filters, I thought you swapped out filters and was only using one, sorry. As long as your getting at least 600gph you should be fine, if it's more great. I like the HOB w/Bio-Wheels I have 2 running in my 55. 
As some one said earlier I would continue to do every other day changes until you levels are good then switch to weekly, doing 20% each week.
Again sorry if I sounded harsh, it was not ment that way.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Do your instructions for the test strips tell you what numbers are considered 'safe' or 'unsafe'??

For example, is there anything that tells you that the test will say safe if your ammonia is between 0 and 0.25 and will tell you 'unsafe' if between 0.50 and 1.00?? Anything like that written in the instructions?? At least that might narrow it down a little.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Also, I found this on you tube for you. It's a little video that illustrates the method I mentioned to get your gravel cleaner suction going: YouTube - Aquarium Cleaning


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Hey, Tim, thanks for the reply...
> 
> Before I get into your suggestions and thoughts...is that a fish tank in a TV wall unit that I see in your pics?! Are you still cycling fishless?
> 
> ...


Ahh, thanks for reminding me that I need to update my old post. My tank is cycled and doing quite well now, but I haven't been active on the forum since it cycled. I just got back into reading posts a few days ago when they started emailing updates. My tank cycled literally overnight almost exactly a year ago after about 2 months from first adding ammonia. The fishless cycle worked beautifully, it just took me a little longer than I expected. I'd be happy to tell more about it if interested, but that is the short version. Until recently, I was very happy with 6 gold barbs, 6 julii corydoras catfish, a couple powder blue dwarf gouramis, and a snail; but recently I lost both mu gouramis to an unknown cause. I'm going to wait a couple months before trying to add anything back to make sure I'm stable.

You've got a point that your tank is not very new. If we speak more specifically abou cycling, then you should know that even an established tank can undergo what is often called a mini-cycle. The bacteria that process ammonia and nitrites will naturally form a balance in your tank if provided consistent conditions. Anything you do to substantially upset this balance can cause a mini-cycle. I usually hear of this happening when new fish are added or the colonies are physically removed (such as by changing out the filter pads) or killed off by meds. Changing out filter pads usually isn't so bad since the bacteria live on just about every surface in the tank, including gravel and a bio-wheel if you have one.

All that said, I will admit that I still consider myself a beginner aquarist, so I'm really just passing along tidbits I've learned along the way (mostly from a lot of online reading). Sounds like we're on the road to an answer and I look forward to learning the solution for your scenario.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

snail said:


> I find it takes 6 months for a tank to really settle down but I would have thought your tank should be cycled by now. When exaclty did you set it up? It could be that the meds messed up the cycle so it had to start again. If you post your ammonia and nitrite readings that would help others to know what is going on.


Thanks Snail,

I believe we have the tank for six months already; I believe we set it up over the summer, if I am not mistaken. Indeed, the Rid-Ich treatment could have messed up the cycle, but that's long over with, thankfully. As for the ammonia and nitrite readings, I don't yet have the API or another liquid-based test kit, so I'm working off of strips that only indicate "Safe/Unsafe" etc. and change color in response to that...



> Could your gravel or another decorative item be causing cloudy water?


I thought this all along -- but I just don't know. I bought all the ornaments at PetSmart, and they're all for aquariums (nothing from the backyard, etc!) and all were washed very well before putting them in the tank; regardless, they have been settling in this tank for months now...would they still be discharging residue to cloud the water? 



> I'd also like to say welcome! And don't give up yet, you'll get there. You made a good start by getting a tank the right size for your fish, lots of people start with some thing like a 10 gallon with 5 goldfish, then it doesn't matter what advice you give it just isn't going to work. Your situation should be cureable.


Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate that! I should have made an initial post in the welcoming area...my apologies.

Indeed, I was aware of the goldfish and their requirements before I got into keeping them; I was actually into this hobby when I was younger and kept tropicals, but decided to go with fancy goldfish now because I just really like them. I knew they needed a lot of room, and I wasn't going to start the tank with like three huge ones right off...the three that are in there now are small to medium sized, and have been growing a bit since we got them. I hope the 60 gallon will keep them happy for awhile.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

J-Pond said:


> I appologize if I sounded hasrh in my first responce.


No problem -- I understand, and was just trying to explain why I confused the growth sign with the Ich...



> The API test kit is very good IMO, it is what I use.


Thanks. That's the one I'll be looking into then. 



> Regarding the filters, I thought you swapped out filters and was only using one, sorry. As long as your getting at least 600gph you should be fine, if it's more great. I like the HOB w/Bio-Wheels I have 2 running in my 55.


Oh, well, then I would understand where the confusion came from -- indeed, that would seem underfiltered! No, I returned the smaller Aqueon and replaced with the AquaClear 110, so now we're running the large Aqueon QuietFlow 55 AND the AquaClear 110 (per my signature) together. 

I considered the Marineland Biowheels (Penguin Series I think it was?) but after all the rave reviews I heard about the AquaClear, it was almost a shame not to get it...



> As some one said earlier I would continue to do every other day changes until you levels are good then switch to weekly, doing 20% each week.


Boy oh boy...water changes once a week? Jeez...that's tough...

Would I really need these many changes with two big filters like I'm running? 



> Again sorry if I sounded harsh, it was not ment that way.


No problem -- sorry if I sounded the same in reply. I appreciate your honesty and sincerity.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> Do your instructions for the test strips tell you what numbers are considered 'safe' or 'unsafe'??
> 
> For example, is there anything that tells you that the test will say safe if your ammonia is between 0 and 0.25 and will tell you 'unsafe' if between 0.50 and 1.00?? Anything like that written in the instructions?? At least that might narrow it down a little.


No Amie, unfortunately not -- the strips turn certain colors in "boxes" indicating either Safe/Unsafe/Alkaline/Hard/Soft, etc...


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> Also, I found this on you tube for you. It's a little video that illustrates the method I mentioned to get your gravel cleaner suction going: YouTube - Aquarium Cleaning


Thank you so much!!


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

PolymerTim said:


> Ahh, thanks for reminding me that I need to update my old post. My tank is cycled and doing quite well now, but I haven't been active on the forum since it cycled. I just got back into reading posts a few days ago when they started emailing updates. My tank cycled literally overnight almost exactly a year ago after about 2 months from first adding ammonia. The fishless cycle worked beautifully, it just took me a little longer than I expected. I'd be happy to tell more about it if interested, but that is the short version. Until recently, I was very happy with 6 gold barbs, 6 julii corydoras catfish, a couple powder blue dwarf gouramis, and a snail; but recently I lost both mu gouramis to an unknown cause. I'm going to wait a couple months before trying to add anything back to make sure I'm stable.


Well, glad I could help! I just asked when I saw the pic of your tank in what looked like a TV stand/area! 



> You've got a point that your tank is not very new. If we speak more specifically abou cycling, then you should know that even an established tank can undergo what is often called a mini-cycle. The bacteria that process ammonia and nitrites will naturally form a balance in your tank if provided consistent conditions. Anything you do to substantially upset this balance can cause a mini-cycle. I usually hear of this happening when new fish are added or the colonies are physically removed (such as by changing out the filter pads) or killed off by meds. Changing out filter pads usually isn't so bad since the bacteria live on just about every surface in the tank, including gravel and a bio-wheel if you have one.


Indeed, I'm aware of the mini-cycle, and this could have very well have happened when I treated the tank for Ich (as discussed earlier with another member in this thread); also, I recently added a new filter in place of a useless Aqueon, and this could have upset the colonies as well I suppose -- these filters I'm running don't have biowheels. 



> All that said, I will admit that I still consider myself a beginner aquarist, so I'm really just passing along tidbits I've learned along the way (mostly from a lot of online reading). Sounds like we're on the road to an answer and I look forward to learning the solution for your scenario.


Thanks very much. I too hope we have an answer/solution soon.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

ClinicaTerra said:


> Well, glad I could help! I just asked when I saw the pic of your tank in what looked like a TV stand/area!


Ahh yes. It is actually a (now) converted TV stand. It was home-made by my wife's grandfather and we've had it for many years. In recent years we found ourselves watching less and less TV and cut back to basic cable. Then along came a little one and we eventually decided to take the plunge and ditch TV altogether. We decided the stand would be great for an aquarium and it has turned out pretty well. We did reinforce it for the extra weight and it is always a tight squeeze if you're doing any kind of maintenance, but we've really enjoyed it.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

PolymerTim said:


> Ahh yes. It is actually a (now) converted TV stand. It was home-made by my wife's grandfather and we've had it for many years. In recent years we found ourselves watching less and less TV and cut back to basic cable. Then along came a little one and we eventually decided to take the plunge and ditch TV altogether. We decided the stand would be great for an aquarium and it has turned out pretty well. We did reinforce it for the extra weight and it is always a tight squeeze if you're doing any kind of maintenance, but we've really enjoyed it.


Good luck with that, Tim!


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Well, here's an update everyone...

I didn't get a new syphon yet. Didn't get the API test kit yet. Didn't do a water change yet. Unfortunately, been extremely busy with work...

But...unless my eyes are tricking me, I could swear since the last and final dosage of Stability on Saturday, the water has gotten substantially clearer; of course, this could very well be placebo and what I _think_ I see, but it does seem a bit more oxygen rich and clearer. 

That said, I am going to keep my fingers crossed that perhaps this last routine of Stability helped equalize this water, getting the bugs to cycle -- not to say I am not going to do a water change or get you guys and gals some test kit readings, but let me see if the haze continues to go away...

On a separate note -- I want to introduce some Purigen into the filtration system to get this water polished up a bit and rid of some its pollutants...how do I go about this with my AquaClear 110? Do I remove the carbon pouch layer and just drop the sack in there?


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

Me personally, at this point if the water looks like it is starting to clear I would not change anything right now.


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## J-Pond (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree with Amie, at this point I wouldn't add anything else. Give it a week and see how it goes. 
Ahh, and yes I still would do weekley water changes of 20%, I do them usually on friday night or saturday morning. 
The filters will do a good job, but don't get everything (as you probably know) and vaccing for the water change will help get rid of what they miss.
Please keep us posted on how things are going.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> Me personally, at this point if the water looks like it is starting to clear I would not change anything right now.


Thanks Amie.

You wouldn't even recommend Purigen, which is supposed to be an anti-polluter and water polisher?


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

J-Pond said:


> I agree with Amie, at this point I wouldn't add anything else. Give it a week and see how it goes.
> Ahh, and yes I still would do weekley water changes of 20%, I do them usually on friday night or saturday morning.
> The filters will do a good job, but don't get everything (as you probably know) and vaccing for the water change will help get rid of what they miss.
> Please keep us posted on how things are going.


Thanks, J.

I sure will keep everyone posted -- I suppose I will give it the week, as you said. Thanks for all your help.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

The less additives you put in your water the better. If you don't create a problem by using additives then you don't have to fix a problem by using additives. 

Fish don't have those additives in their nature habitat.


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## ClinicaTerra (Nov 12, 2010)

Amie said:


> The less additives you put in your water the better. If you don't create a problem by using additives then you don't have to fix a problem by using additives.
> 
> Fish don't have those additives in their nature habitat.


I understand, but the Purigen is supposed to "detoxify" whatever their waste is doing to the water...

Well, at any rate, I will wait the week, like suggested, and not touch anything as you recommended...


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