# HELP!!! What happening?



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

I added a LTA to my tank last night after confirming that my Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrate where 0. The 'nem is looking great even today, fully inflated but floating around looking for a home still (seeing as how it hasn't been 24 hrs im not worried yet).

BUT. I checked my levels this morning an my ammonia jumped to .25 ppm (nitrate/nitrite are still 0).

Is this part of the process of my tank acclimating the LTA or is something going wrong?


Params as of this morning:
Ammonia .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Sg 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-78
24 gallon nano
Protein skimmer and heater installed
Live Rock and Live Sand
2 emerald Crab, 2 hermet crab, 4 turbo snails.


I'm at work right now, but i plan on a water change again when I get home, would it be ok to shoot for 50% change this time instead of 25%?


----------



## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

Nitrates should not be 0. It sounds like your tank is not fully cycled or not cycled at all. Your tank is considered to be cycled when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and small amounts (~10ppm) of nitrates are detected. I recommend daily large water changes until readings come into line with this. Don't add any more fish.


----------



## graybot (Apr 24, 2011)

Just realized this is a saltwater thread. These instructions are for freshwater, not sure if the same applies for SW. I'm sure someone else will chime in.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Graybot has the right idea.The ammonia should take care of itself if the tank is cycled.You should have some nitrate reading unless you've been doing large waterchanges.Anenomes can be very fickle and you should try to settle him in some where.They can move,and that is just fine (one of mine was practicing for a marathon it seemed),but did settle in.The floating I don't think is a good sign.Possibly lower circulation to help it settle?Most nems won't tolerate any water flucuations(or at least ones from uncycled tanks.)
How long have you had tank established?
I know it all comes down to water quality ,but a good rule is 6-12 months before adding nems.


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> Graybot has the right idea.The ammonia should take care of itself if the tank is cycled.You should have some nitrate reading unless you've been doing large waterchanges.Anenomes can be very fickle and you should try to settle him in some where.They can move,and that is just fine (one of mine was practicing for a marathon it seemed),but did settle in.The floating I don't think is a good sign.Possibly lower circulation to help it settle?Most nems won't tolerate any water flucuations(or at least ones from uncycled tanks.)
> How long have you had tank established?
> I know it all comes down to water quality ,but a good rule is 6-12 months before adding nems.


The tank has been established for about 2 months, I have no other livestock than what was listed above and from what I'm reading elsewhere is that this could just be a mini cycle since the anemone is increasing the bioload more than the biofiltration is used too. I plan on testing my tank tonight and doing a 25% change again then monitoring it for the next few days.

I'll encourage the nem to a spot on the rocks and see if he takes it, as of when i left he was fully inflated and full of color. I'll know more in about 3 hours when I'm home.

i took into account the min 6 month rule of thumb but seeing as how the best practice I found was to have a reef before fish and a nem before a reef (as them walking over coral can kill off other corals). I waited a few weeks after my initial cycle finished and i could confirm my levels stayed consistent.


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

.


----------



## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

I agree with graybot. The normal course would be for a newly cycled 2-month-old tank to have some nitrates, even gobs. If this were my tank, I'd suspect the testing chemicals were bad. If you actually do have nitrates of 0 then I want your secret. ) 

Assuming the tank is cycled, the ammonia spike should take care of itself overnight. In a more seasoned tank, you likely wouldn't have had an ammonia spike. I've added up to a dozen or more anemones in a single day and not had an ammonia spike. In my experience, it will be difficult to keep anemones in a tank that's only 2-months-old regardless of water changes or how pristine the water parameters are. Not impossible, just difficult. I believe you also recently purchased a green BTA? How is it doing? The ammonia spike, while small, will take its toll on the BTA, especially it's foot. I can't stress enough how important brisk bidirectional flow is to successful anemone keeping, especially in a new tank. And I'll also add that I've had many nems move around my tanks and have never had one kill or even damage a coral. Not saying it couldn't happen, just saying. And while I understand the logic behind anemones first, corals second, and fish third...logical or not, anemones shouldn't go first. It's better to have them join an established reef with stable water parameters. Hindsight is always 20/20 though so while not in ideal order, I'm hopeful your nems will make it. You may want to consider getting a couple clownfish. I’ve found that as long as a nem is healthy and large enough to host, that the presence of clownfish will increase the nems chance of survival. 

On a separate note, LTA's are wired to bury their foot and column in the sand. I've found that to be the most challenging part about keeping them. In my original tank I have a deep sand bed, which according to experts is what LTA's like. But the LTA's I kept in there never seemed satisfied. I ended up moving my LTA's to 10-gallon breeder tanks. I placed them in a bowl and after they attached to the bottom of the bowl I filled the bowl with sand. They love it. I know a guy who keeps LTA's successfully in a tank with a 1" sand bed, which the LTA's can easily dig into and attach their foot to the bottom of the tank. I've had LTA's grab onto a rock for a few days but never stay. You might consider clearing a spot in your substrate so the LTA can attach to the floor and after it does, cover it's foot and column with a tall mound of sand. The LTA won't stay if it doesn't like the flow though. They are fussy. Don't allow the current to blow the LTA constantly in one direction. On a good note, LTA's are resilient. Mine have forgiven my mistakes. Do be careful with regards to your LTA floating around the tank because there's the very real possibility it will get sucked into the powerhead which is disaster.





nema said:


> I added a LTA to my tank last night after confirming that my Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrate where 0. The 'nem is looking great even today, fully inflated but floating around looking for a home still (seeing as how it hasn't been 24 hrs im not worried yet).
> 
> BUT. I checked my levels this morning an my ammonia jumped to .25 ppm (nitrate/nitrite are still 0).
> 
> ...


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

Reefing Madness said:


> Along with the numbers you posted, you need to test for Phosphates, Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity numbers. Also, what kind of lights are you running?? You must have High intensity lighting for a Anemone.


I just did the water change and waited 3 hours and redid my tests. I dont have a test for Magnesium or Alkalinity yet, but i'll pick them up tomorrow.

pH - 8.4
Ammonium - now between .25 and 0 (was .25)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - now between 5 and 0 (was 5)
Calcium - between 460-480
Phosphate - 0


Im running the JBJ Nano 24 gallon which comes stock with the 50/50 36 Watt CF lights. Multiple LFS told me that the lights should be strong enough for a nem. Seeing as how i have algae growing on my sand that there must be photosynthesis happening at that level.


----------



## angelsdice159 (Jul 2, 2011)

+1 on Reefing madness & coralbandit
I would check iodine aswell.
Sorry but wat size is ur tank?
Is this a big anemone?
watch it dont get suck in to a powerhead. While it's trying to find a home ( it happens)
True about the light. I would put it under a four to six light buld fixture 
Or metal haileds. .
The tank beeing 2 months is a little bad but it's doable 
Just watch it make sure the mouth is nice and close of the anemone

Also feed it that should help it stay. And remember there always ganna be able to move
Weather is going in before or after you start putting other LPS or SPS corals in your tankk. Good luck 
Update soon. .


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

.


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

angelsdice159 said:


> +1 on Reefing madness & coralbandit
> I would check iodine aswell.
> Sorry but wat size is ur tank?
> Is this a big anemone?
> ...


24 gallon nano. luckily the tank doesn't have a power head, just a surface skimmer (protein skimmer in the back as well).

I went ahead and after I did the water change I dug up the sand under where its been sitting all day and helped it sit a bit deeper in the sand. It's staying pretty open and the tentacles are pretty inflated still which seems like a good sign thus far. I'll know better in the morning once everything normalizes.


----------



## angelsdice159 (Jul 2, 2011)

Lol ha.lol. My last post took so long to write cuz im watching my two year old twin girls while the wifs @ work..lol.
By the time i post it u had posted ur update..lololol..
Funny. .


A 24g huh. Nice!,.
RM is right levles got to stay good.
I dont know about cfl lightin
But i did have a rose anem in my 37g under four t-5HO bulbs right on top of the rocks
Did great..my tank was about two years old wen i put him in.
Have him in my 125 now under mh. .
I would test in the mourin again. Thou. 
But then again i love to test my tanks. Only way to know wats going on. Lol. .my two cents.


----------



## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

I've not put compact flourescent bulbs over any of my SW tanks so I can't speak to their ability directly. I can tell you that I've not had a LTA or BTA attach long term in an area of the tank that didn't have at least a 200-300 PAR reading (PPF). PAR is a measurement of usable light energy. I have my own PAR meter now, but the first time I measured for PAR I rented a device from a LFS. It's interesting how PAR differs throughout the tank and being able to measure it has all but ended the guess work of where to place corals. So you may want to learn the PAR capabilities of your bulbs. I suspect you're going to want to upgrade minimally to T5s if you want to keep nems. 

Water changes are almost always a smart coarse of action. Hopefully the ammonia will be back to 0 by tomorrow. The rest of the parameters look fine. Magnesium plays several roles in aquarium keeping, so a Mag test kit is a good investment. 

Has the LTA settled in yet? 




nema said:


> I just did the water change and waited 3 hours and redid my tests. I dont have a test for Magnesium or Alkalinity yet, but i'll pick them up tomorrow.
> 
> pH - 8.4
> Ammonium - now between .25 and 0 (was .25)
> ...


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

Checked this morning and my levels are such:

Phosphate - 0
pH - 8.4
SG - 1.025
Ammonium - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - looks like 0 but it might be just above... def not 5.

The LTA has stayed where i dug the little trench in the sand and seems to be ok. He isn't as fully open as when i first put him in but his tentacles are not stringy, they are inflated and the mouth is visible. I'm going to look at t-5 lighting online today but its hard finding any that would fit this tank. Outer limits of the tank are 18.75" wide and inner limits are 17.75".

Any recommendations would be appreciated as well.


----------



## angelsdice159 (Jul 2, 2011)

I just wanna say always look up wat u want to buy
Dont let the lfs sell u something just because. . Lfs have a reputation for giving bad advice
A good way i tell if im dealing wit a good lfs is if they ask me 
Questions about my tank before i try ro get it something
Just ssying
Wen i first started my lfs sold me a P.O.S led fixture said it would do sps
Turnd out it suck. ..just keep looking stuff up. .


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

.


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

angelsdice159 said:


> I just wanna say always look up wat u want to buy
> Dont let the lfs sell u something just because. . Lfs have a reputation for giving bad advice
> A good way i tell if im dealing wit a good lfs is if they ask me
> Questions about my tank before i try ro get it something
> ...


Yea I trust my LFS so far, they've deterred me from some purchases and told me to wait and make sure certain parameters maintained. But I'll try your method and see if go the helpful route.


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

Reefing Madness said:


> There are plenty of T5 fixures out there that woukd fit your needs. It doesn't have to cover the entire tank, but rather just be extendable end to end. I woukd recommend nothing less than a 4 lamp unit if your going to keep Nems.


I'm 90% set on a T5 fixture but you mentioned a 4 lamp unit. Does there need to be a certain wattage for a 24 gallon tank? Also do 2 of the 4 lamps need to be acinitic, or just 1... i.e. does the combo matter?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

All I could find was 20" light fixtures with 18" bulbs,plenty of them.


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

.


----------



## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

.


----------



## angelsdice159 (Jul 2, 2011)

+1 WIT RM

it just looks better in a blue tint 
I love my 20k look


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

To wrap things up i up graded the lights to the JBJ Unibody 54 Watt which has dimmable toggles for each light. I started them off very low and will increment them up each week. My ammonia has gotten as high as 1 ppm before i get a water change in, I've turned off the skimmer for the next few days and added a couple cap full doses of Instant Ocean Bio-Spira to try and help speed up the Mini cycle as its more drastic than i thought it would be. 

The nem seems happier now, accepted the feeding i gave it a day or so ago and is slowly settling into the sand. I'm testing the water every day and keeping an eye on the nem's behavior.

Thanks again for everyone's help.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The nem really feeds off of light(photosynthetic) so additional feedings may only cause trouble.Look for it to regurgitate the feeding?


----------



## nema (Oct 22, 2013)

It didn't regurgitate, The plan is to not feed for a week or two and slowly increase the light and see how it does. It stopped floating and has firmly sat in the sand and looks great. I'll update in a few weeks how it does.


----------



## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

nema said:


> To wrap things up i up graded the lights to the JBJ Unibody 54 Watt which has dimmable toggles for each light. I started them off very low and will increment them up each week. My ammonia has gotten as high as 1 ppm before i get a water change in, I've turned off the skimmer for the next few days and added a couple cap full doses of Instant Ocean Bio-Spira to try and help speed up the Mini cycle as its more drastic than i thought it would be.
> 
> The nem seems happier now, accepted the feeding i gave it a day or so ago and is slowly settling into the sand. I'm testing the water every day and keeping an eye on the nem's behavior.
> 
> Thanks again for everyone's help.


That's a nice fixture. You're going to appreciate being able to adjust the brightness. Glad to hear your LTA is doing well.


----------

