# Black Worms



## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi Everyone, 
I recently discovered that one of my LFS (the Pet Pad in cary NC) sells live black worms by the teaspoon. I got one dose and brought it home for my convicts and mosquito fish ( and one crayfish) and dumped them in the tank. They loved it and now I have the few survivors left over buried in the gravel for the crayfish to hunt at night. Anyone else have any experience with black worms and their survival / multiplication rate in aquarium substrate? 


PS: such a small amount are there that I'm not too worried about an ammonia spike if they all bite the dust.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Doh! Please tell me you at least washed them before dumping them in? I have had HORRIBLE experience with live black worms. they can carry up to 15 different pathogens because they live off of sewage. Be sure to keep a good close eye on your fish for a couple of weeks. 
After I fed my fish live blackworms, they went crazy the first time, then they lost their appetite. My fish got columnaris, and black ich, I have lost about $120 worth of fish and my battle Still isn't over.


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

I think you are speaking of Tubifex worms. The ones I purchased are California Black Worms, which is an entirely different worm. They are grown on two different large farms in California. I did rinse them, but with tank water. Chlorine will kill the worms. 

Blackworms | The Skeptical Aquarist

This is a good article with lots of info.


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## Copachick (Jun 7, 2011)

Some of the time a few of my black worms get into the gravel. Most of my fish eat off the bottom and eventually find them, but I find sometimes that a week later when I do my water change and vacuum the gravel, I vacuum up worms! Its never given me a huge ammonia spike or anything. Just do a good gravel vac afterwards maybe. Like dig deep into the gravel so you can suck up anything, rather then just grazing the top with the vac.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

claygriffith01 said:


> I think you are speaking of Tubifex worms. The ones I purchased are California Black Worms, which is an entirely different worm. They are grown on two different large farms in California. I did rinse them, but with tank water. Chlorine will kill the worms.
> 
> Blackworms | The Skeptical Aquarist
> 
> This is a good article with lots of info.


Unfortunately not, the LFS told me they were California black worms, not tubifex worms, I know what those looks like. Plus one of my friends, who is an expert aquarist, told me all the information and he does not allow Black Worms in his fish room because he had fed Black worms, and it wiped out almost all(50) of his bettas. What you feed your fish is up to you, I'm just giving you a word of caution.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I use blackworms (but wouldn't touch tubifex). They have had a rep for wiping tanks if they are kept around in warm water. Cool is important for them.
I've had great success using them to condition spawning fish.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Let me correct myself actually: I do not support LFS bought black worms. I think it is better to culture your own, since you don't know where they are coming from if you get them from an lfs.


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

It is possible. These worms came from Worms Are Here!. The LFS gets them in on Thursdays and I got these on Friday. 

I know that some places grow their worms in fish hatcheries and cow ponds.


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

Manafel, 
Thanks for the word of warning. So far all my fish have been behaving normally and are still eating their flakes and pellets as expected. If I run into any issues I will be sure to post them here. Do you know where your Black Worms originated so I can avoid stores that use that source? 

Thanks


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

I purchased mine from petsmiths, who I believe said that they got theirs from California black worms.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I've read about people using black worms in their earth based substrates to help aerate rather like MTS. I would suspect that long term the fish would have most of them for dinner.


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## dan4cbw (May 5, 2012)

Manafel said:


> Doh! Please tell me you at least washed them before dumping them in? I have had HORRIBLE experience with live black worms. they can carry up to 15 different pathogens because they live off of sewage. Be sure to keep a good close eye on your fish for a couple of weeks.
> After I fed my fish live blackworms, they went crazy the first time, then they lost their appetite. My fish got columnaris, and black ich, I have lost about $120 worth of fish and my battle Still isn't over.
> I purchased mine from petsmiths, who I believe said that they got theirs from California black worms.


Sorry for your loss Manafel. 
I know you had loses however the above is not too accurate. They will build up bacteria if not properly taken care of. Which in most cases is at the Wholesaler and LFS level. We find the end user to be far more diligent for their care. The main reason we do deal direct with the public. In the USA there are only two of use who Farm Blackworms, both of us commercially, no sewage, no fish hatcheries no dairy or duck ponds. unfortunately the weak links are like I said and shipping. Also, we do not ship to Petsmiths.

Dan


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

Just wanted to update, everyone in the tank is still doing fine and behaving normally. The escaped worms are alive and well also. Found the Crayfish digging up a few last night. I'll probably get another dose this week and drop them into the Java Moss to give the fish something to forage for, and maybe give the worms a chance to clean up the moss a bit.


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

dan4cbw said:


> Sorry for your loss Manafel.
> I know you had loses however the above is not too accurate. They will build up bacteria if not properly taken care of. Which in most cases is at the Wholesaler and LFS level. We find the end user to be far more diligent for their care. The main reason we do deal direct with the public. In the USA there are only two of use who Farm Blackworms, both of us commercially, no sewage, no fish hatcheries no dairy or duck ponds. unfortunately the weak links are like I said and shipping. Also, we do not ship to Petsmiths.
> 
> Dan


Hi Dan, welcome to the forum. Do you have any sort of program or way that you could offer single serving samples to members of the Forum to get the folks here familiar with your product? Lots of people here aren't familiar with Black Worms at all. Just a thought. A special "AquariumForum.com free sample" offer could go a long way in spreading the word about your product.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

claygriffith01 said:


> Just wanted to update, everyone in the tank is still doing fine and behaving normally. The escaped worms are alive and well also. Found the Crayfish digging up a few last night. I'll probably get another dose this week and drop them into the Java Moss to give the fish something to forage for, and maybe give the worms a chance to clean up the moss a bit.


Glad to hear your fish are doing well and are still healthy. I wouldn't wish what I had to go through on anyone.

I appreciate everyone's information, but the science my friend explains to me I just cannot ignore. He dissected some of Califonia Blackworm's stock a while back under a microscope, and the samples were infected. Though it might be poor care from your clients, I cannot bring myself to use them again, and extending a word of caution to others does no harm. I was probably wrong on Petsmith's vendor, my apologies.


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## claygriffith01 (Apr 24, 2012)

I agree, no harm in being cautious. I have a little population of wild caught mosquito fish that get first dibs on any new foods usually. They are very hardy and likely to survive well, but they go into hiding if they are sick. This behavior makes it pretty easy to find out if there are any issues with new foods. I've found that one Mosquito Fish can eat about 2 worms total before being stuffed. The only advice I would give other than cleaning is that if your fish tend to gorge on worms, wait a day or two after that feeding to give them any additional food. My convicts looked ready to explode after their feast.



Here is a pic of the worms I fed. I let them come to room temperature before feeding to my fish so that they wouldn't be shocked from the temp change. I wanted any survivors to stay alive until they get found.


Compare those with this pic of Tubifex worms.


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## Manafel (Sep 4, 2011)

Yeah when I fed the blackworms for the first time, my fish went nuts, then the next day they were spitting and wouldn't eat...I knew something was wrong then. My bichir had a food baby though (whoops) kind of funny to see though


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## dan4cbw (May 5, 2012)

claygriffith01 said:


> Hi Dan, welcome to the forum. Do you have any sort of program or way that you could offer single serving samples to members of the Forum to get the folks here familiar with your product? Lots of people here aren't familiar with Black Worms at all. Just a thought. A special "AquariumForum.com free sample" offer could go a long way in spreading the word about your product.


We do have some Forum Plans.
Our Sponsor Forum should be up and running soon.
Thats where we'll start offering to members.
Thanks all,

Dan


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