# Nitro Cylce Info overload, advice wanted.



## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Hello All:

first a bit of background on my aquarium experience. I have a 55 gallon tank, and 2 10 gallon tanks. I had them active for about 3 years while I was in college. I know the basics of aquarium keeping. However after college I shut them down and put them in storage. 5 years later I'm trying to start my 55 Gallon back up. 

In college I had no idea what the nitrogen cycle for a tank was. It seems it was shear luck that my fish survived as long as they did (Oscars and Tinfoil barbs).

I set my tank up on Sunday. I used AquaSafe, Aquarium salt, and a Bacterial supplement. The tank has brand new gravel and all the decor was boiled before being placed in the tank. (I'm using a standard mechanical filter with the "Sheets" of filter and carbon inside. should I buy a biowheel style instead?)

I took some chemical readings with my API master test kit and received 8.0 pH, 0ppm NH4/NH3, and 0 Nitrite and Nitrates. (I figured this would be the case since it was new) I want to keep tropical fish like tetras. but before I added them I wanted to complete the fish cycle. So I went to petsmart and got 5 comet goldfish (I have read that this was a bad decision because this is not the type of fish I will be keeping. any truth to that?) 

I let the fish float for about 20 minutes and then placed them into the tank. This morning when I woke up 2 of them where already dead. I'm sure this is caused by the "New tank syndrome" or that the water might be a bit warm for the Goldfish (roughly 76-78 degrees F).

I have read about 15 different articles relating to the Nitrogen cycle in a fish tank. Most of them only have a few points in common. I understand that this could be a long process. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I want a good healthy tank. Does anyone have any advice for me on this process for my rebuilt 55 gallon tank? 

Thank you so much for any help.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

First off, welcome to the site.

The two fish you had die could just be from stress or possibly ph shock. Always good to drip acclimate them to get them used to your ph slowly.

I think it is okay the fish you have chosen for purposes of getting you through the cycle. Just continue what you're doing and test for ammonia in a few days and see if you are starting to detect it. Once you have reached that stage it will be about a week or so and you will start detecting nitrites - could be a little longer with only 3 fish. At this point, start testing for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates everyday - every two days. Keep track of your readings until ammonia and nitrite have zeroed out and only nitrates remain.

As you move along, try to keep ammonia and nitrite readings at 1 or below. Do this by doing partial water changes. I would do at least 25% every time you did one. Higher reading could require as much as 50%. 

Take your time and don't try to rush it. Once it appears finished, do a 50% water change and stock to your liking, no more than 2-3 fish per week.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Thank you. that really helps straighten me out. Would it be beneficial to add another 2 fish? I almost hate doing it because I feel bad when they die, but I'm not experienced enough to try a "Fishless" tank cycling.

One article I read said I need 2-5 inches of fish per 10 gallons of water to do it right. I take everything I read with a grain of salt just in case its bogus information.

Thanks again! I'm exciting about using this forum. I love learning new things and I cant wait to soak up more info!


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## peteyboyny (Oct 18, 2010)

I used a few "feeder" guppies to cycle my tank. they are still part of my tank community. They were pretty inexpensive as well. Don't want to use too many though, if you ever want to get them out it's a real pain (unless you put something in there to eat them).


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I use live plants to prevent the spikes of the new tank syndrom.

What I use is a layered substrate with 1" peat moss, 1" play sand, and 1" prochoice select (or aquarium gravel) in that order from bottom to top. Then stock the tank full of plants. for a 55g 15 bunches of anacharis, 15 vals, 15 small potted typw and a couple of amazon swords. (actually all that is approximate but you get the point).

then fill with water and let set a week.

Then add a few male platies or a single more agressive fish. Wait one week with no food being added. then stock up with more fish and start very light feedings.

no filter, no circulation, not even an air stone.

But that is just my way.

worth at most .02


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

While I'l letting a bag acclimate to the temp, I always add a little water from the tank to the bag every 5 minutes. This is usually enough to prevent pH shock. I don't remember having a loss this way, though I am sure a drip is more effective.

I don't have a 55g, but I would think the remaining three goldfish would be plenty to cycle it. Goldfish are a little more of a load on the bio system than most fish anyway. If you have a test kit you should be able to see it progressing through the cycles. Just remember to add new fish slowly after getting past the cycle, otherwise you'll reboot the cycle and be back at nearly square one. I tend to try and plan out what I want and start with the toughest fish first. I didn't research the fishless cycle thing until I'd already started down the path of cycling my tank, so I'm in the same boat as you. So far my only loss has been a ghost shrimp.

Good luck!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

and from what I hear goldfish will attack plants.

So much for "my" methods. *old dude


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That is because they are carp at heart.


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

Did you buy a new API test kit or are you using an old one? I made the mistake of using an old one I got with a used tank and my readings were always zero on ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Each bottle has a lot number with the date it was made on it. Anything over three years old (if I remember right) should not be trusted.

Here is some more info on identifying the mfg date and how long the test kits last from a different forum. This info came from a API rep to a person using their products.


Thank you very much for contacting us regarding our products. All of
your comments and questions are valuable. We use your feedback to
create the most effective line of aquarium and pond products available. 

Your solutions are not expired. Each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed
on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of
manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured
in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, ammonia, High Range pH,
Nitrate, phosphate, Copper, calcium and GH all last for three years.
nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and
Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years. I would not trust these
kits after they have expired.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

I bought a brand new test kit. 

Part of me wishes I would have researched planted tanks a bit more. I still might try and plant some hardy plants. I have normal aquarium gravel so I might have to dose my own fertz more often than with a substrate made for planted tanks. 

Ive been reading about silent cycling etc. but I might just stay the course I'm on. I might start up one of my ten gallons and try the silent cycling with it instead.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. It has been very useful!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Many plants will do just fine in regular gravel and don't require too much in way of light. Some of the ones beaslbob mentioned are good low maintenance plants.


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*When you cycle with fish, buy the plant called Anarcharis (Elodea). It grows amazingly fast floating or planted. It sucks up the toxins like a sponge. Also since you are cycling with fish, do 15%-20% water changes every 3 days and your tank will be cycled in a month or longer. Partial water changes help keep the water quality at therapeutic level for fish.

Thats pretty much it. But if you want the details and reasons why, here. I have an already typed article to help others on other forums. I will copy and paste a part of it for you. It is in laymans terms and should be easy to understand hehe.

The reason why you want to cycle first is because you want to grow all the beneficial bacteria that is needed to break down the toxins that are released into the tank. The toxins are from fish food and fish waste that are broken down. It all breaks down into ammonia. If a tank is not cycled, all the fish could die of an ammonia intoxication. That's why people wonder why all their fish die within a week. There are 2 sets of bacteria that you want. The first set of beneficial bacteria breaks down ammonia-to-nitrite and the second set breaks down nitrite-to-nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are very toxic to fish, however nitrate is not nearly as toxic. In a cycled tank, there is never any ammonia or nitrite because of the bacteria present that are doing their jobs.

Lets say you first start out a 25g tank with 25 small fish, 25 small fish is a lot for a tank that has no beneficial bacteria. Because of the lack bacteria, the tank will go into an ammonia overload and the fish will die. In a CYCLED tank, the beneficial bacteria is there to break it down. 

Now lets say, you start out a 25g tank with 5 fish. 5 is a small number and the amount of ammonia released is smaller. This allows the tank to gradually grow bacteria without the tank going into an overload.

To cycle with fish, you start with a small amount of fish to let the tank cycle, you do 20% water changes EVERY 3 days to exchange old water with fresh new water to lower ammonia levels. You keep on doing this to keep the toxic water at therapeutic level. Ammonia and nitrite levels must never go higher than 0.50ppm. Cycling with fish can take anywhere from a month or two months.  

Good Luck.*


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

Ok guys, Im going to throw you a curve ball...

After work I swung by my LFS. The lady that operates it is very knowledgeable. (Her store is like a mini fish zoo, half the fish in there I have never seen before!...anyways) after reading a lot of articles here about planted tanks I changed my mind and decided if that's what I really want, then why wait! This weekend I'm going to start over. (She explained in detail how much more work a planted tank is. I'm up to the challenge!)

She said she would help me through most of the process as much as she could. (she showed me a picture of her planted 55Gal from her living room, it was amazing)

I'm going to pick up new substrate and all the materials to build a DIY CO2 reactor. Any tips or "What not to do by mistake" would be greatly appreciated!!

I'm going to have fun with it, not rush, learn as much as I can, and enjoy the success after some hard work!

Would any of you know of a decent powerhead to use with a DIY CO2 system? Petsmart carries two brands but after looking at them both I don't quite know how I would attach a bottle or hose to the outlet with a good seal.

Thanks again!!!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cool. I just changed my gravel in my 125gal tonight to a better substrate. I'd go with eco-complete.


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## NursePlaty (Feb 5, 2010)

*AquaClear has good powerheads. I fed my CO2 output into the intake of the powerhead. Works well.*


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Does that mean you don't have the goldfish any more? If you still use the goldfish you can't keep them after as they won't mix with tropicals and even if they did I don't think your tank is big enough.

There are lots of ways to cycle a tank but the cycle is pretty much the same whatever method you use. Basically you need ammonia to start the cycle. Ammonia can come from fish, pure ammonia or some thing like fish food as it rots. Bacteria will then build up that feed on ammonia. Before the bacteria have the chance to get going ammonia levels get very high and fish can die from ammonia poisoning, this is known as "New tank syndrome". 

I think a fishless cycle (where the ammonia source is added with out fish in the tank) is actually far easier because you don’t have to worry about keeping the fish alive at the same time as letting the ammonia levels get high enough to get a good bacteria colony going.

A planted tank can differ because plants also consume ammonia. If you use a LOT of fast growing plants right from the start with proper lighting etc the ammonia levels should not spike high enough to seriously hurt the fish.


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## Loren (Oct 26, 2010)

@ Snail

Yes I still have the goldfish. However, only 2 of 5 are alive. I wish I would have found this forum before I bought them and tossed them in there. I would have liked to try the fish less cycle or start a planted tank from the start. 

I guess you have to live and learn. The great thing is I wont repeat the same mistakes on any future tanks.

I have a tiny 1 Gallon corner tank that I will toss them in while I rebuild the 55gal. I measured my ammonia levels yesterday, and I still don't see any sizable ppm. is it a bit early to tell? 3 days? I suppose it no longer matters because I after I change the tank around (substrate, plants, water) I will have to "restart" a cycle. One thing is for sure...I'm going to make absolutely certain the tank is cycled before adding any more fish!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

It could take a week or more to show something with only 2 fish.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Learning is part of the fun! Do you know what you are going to do with the goldfish after?You won't be able to keep them in the one gallon for long but as long as you do lots of water changes it should work ok for a few days. You could consider returning them to the LFS now and then you'll have more time and less to worry about. There is always more than one way to do it, as long as it works for you.


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