# 2 Month Tank Questions



## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi All;

First off would like to say thanks for your help beforehand.

I've been keeping a freshwater tank for about 6 months now, but have had my current 30G set up for about 2 months.

I have 2 Loaches, 4 Tiger Barbs, Goldfish and 2 other Misc. fish in here. If the tank is overstocked I'd be willing to give one or more of the fish away to help stabilize the tank. I know all about the tank and it needing to cycle but here are my questions:

- The water has been cloudy for about 1month and half now, it seemed like at a certain point it cleared up but then got exponentially worse (almost brownish) about a week or 2 later. Why is it still so cloudy? I do periodic water changes of about 35% every 4 days or so. I use tapwater and purify the water with Prim and Amaquel.

- Could I be over-cleaning the tank? I do have a live plant, but it seems to be fine at this point even though it has lost a few of its' smaller leafs. Could the plant be decomposing(?) and letting off excess ammonia?

- I have tested the water and it says the ammonia level is through the roof, but I read it could be a false positive reading. I add Prime to the tank almost everyday to neutralize the ammonia and nitrites. 

Sorry for the sudden flurry of questions, I'm just very, very frustrated at this point and feel terrible for the fish.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

Only things I can weigh in on are

Loaches need a bigger group than 2 and barbs should also have a bigger group. What is a tropical gold fish? and i dont *think* you should be adding prime every day. Have you tested ammonia levels in your tap water? After two months it shouldnt still be cycling.....so there has to be an underlying cause for the high levels of ammonia...


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

My apologies, I'll edit that out but there is a goldfish in the tank that was given to me. 

I was told it was Tropical, but alas I'm still new at this.

Thanks for the input - I know I shouldn't be adding in Prime everyday but I do it to try and neutralize the high ammonia levels.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

water changes will help lower the ammonia. but test your tap water. what kind of test are you using by the way, liquid or strip? should be using liquid. can you give us exact readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm using a liquid test for the ammonia - I haven't tested the Nitrates as I was waiting to get the Ammonia down to 0ppm before taking it to my local pet store.

I'll do a test right now and report back in about 10 - 15 minutes.


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

Sorry for the late update but the water is coming back at 4.0/ppm today and that is with neutralizer being added to the water earlier today. I didn't change the water but did add some to compensate for evaporation - my last water change was 2 days ago.

Any help is appreciated.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

did you test it straight out of the tap to see if ammonia is present? 

First thing you need to do is rehome that goldfish. they are messy, and do not belong in a tropical tank. 

Secondly, have you done anything to cause a bacteria die off, like change a filter cartridge without seeding a new one, ore changing the substrate? anything to cause it to recycle. 

how long have teh fish been in there? have they all been in there the whole two months or did your recently just add a big group?


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

*did you test it straight out of the tap to see if ammonia is present? *

No I haven't but I will do that right now

*First thing you need to do is rehome that goldfish. they are messy, and do not belong in a tropical tank. *

I have another, smaller tank that I may move him to then. He would be alone in it though.

*Secondly, have you done anything to cause a bacteria die off, like change a filter cartridge without seeding a new one, ore changing the substrate? anything to cause it to recycle. *

I have changed filter cartridges once since the tank has been installed. I'm not sure if I seeded it or not, but most likely not. How do I go about seeding new cartridges, and could doing multiple water changes of around 35% contribute to the recycling?

*how long have teh fish been in there? have they all been in there the whole two months or did your recently just add a big group?*

They have all been in there since the beginning.


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

The tap water is testing at 1.0ppm


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

your tap water is testing at 1.ppm for ammonia? yea thats not good, also that tank sounds alittle overstocked, you realize that both of those loaches can grow to 12"?


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

Well the test I'm using showed it at around 1.0ppm, but I neutralize my water at least 2 - 4 hours before I use it in the tank to allow ideal temperature adjustment and the neutralizer to work.

I didn't realize they were going to grow to be about 12" - I always assumed they would just "grow into the tank." I assume that is somewhat of an urban legend though?

I agree it could be overstocked, but out of all the aquarium keepers I've spoken to they've said the tank should be able to handle the wasteland. I don't mind removing some of the fish if necessary - could you give me an idea of which I should remove? or how many fish the tank sounds like it can handle?

I have another 10 gallon tank that I could use for a certain amount of fish and possibly transition them into the 30 gallon tank as the cycle sets itself up?


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## harveya (Aug 12, 2011)

Not all loaches will grow that big. A clown loach will... First thing you need to do is get rid of the gold fish!! Put it in a tank by itself or do what ever, he shouldn't be in a tropical tank and creates waaayyyy to much waste. Stop using the prime everyday. Only use it when you are adding new water. If your tap water is reading 1.0ppm then I would seriously look into another source. Is you test kit the API Test kit? Are you sure you are testing correctly? Doing 35% PWC everyday or ever other day is excessive, however if your ammonia is through the roof.... You should look at seeding the tank using something from your established tank, like an ornament or rocks or why.


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## harveya (Aug 12, 2011)

What is your feeding schedule? I would feed a small amount (what they can eat in 2min) 3 times a week.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think you are overstocked, but it is a high number of fish to deal with when battling a high ammonia situation. If the nitrogen cycle had been completed before adding most of them, you wouldn't be having this problem.

Stop adding chemicals to you water unless it is to remove chlorine. There is no need for anything else and they do nothing but stall the cycle. Put in some things from your other established tank...old filter media, decorations, a filter bag full of gravel, etc.. This will help.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Kill the lights, stop adding food add lotsa anacharis.

then the tank clears resume with 1/2 duration lighting and 1/2 feeding. then adjust both until the anacharis thrives and the water stays clear. cloudiness less lights and foor, clear water more lights and food.


my .02


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

i had a good experience with tetra safe start, its got bio spira or somthin or other bacteria that will help seed your tank and it helps keep ammonia and nitrite's down, for acouple days my tank's nitrites were 5.+ppm even after i did a 50% water change, so i went and added that stuff, when i came home from work 8-9hrs later my nitrites were at .5ppm and the next morning it was at 0.ppm, it's alittle pricey but i think its worth it.


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## miles (Nov 27, 2011)

How often are you changing the filter media, and what kind of filter is it? You should really only replace your media when it's falling apart because doing so too often can trigger a mini-cycle, which sounds like what's causing the cloudiness and high ammonia. Even with ammonia in your tap water, a healthy bio-filter with the help of Prime should make short work of it.

Usually you should avoid putting extra chemicals in your tank, but I think you're right to add prime to protect your fish. Just don't continue doing it after your tank stabilizes. Seachem claims that prime "detoxifies" ammonia and nitrite while leaving it available to the bacteria, so if that's true adding it will not slow your cycle. I agree with those who said the goldfish has to go! Poor guy..


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## juliand89 (Dec 12, 2011)

Hey Guys;

Quick update for you all, I took all of your advice into consideration and went over to my local Tropical Fish Store. 

I found out my filtration was not sufficient at all, even if I was to take the Goldfish out it would still be garbage. Now I'm running an under gravel filter with 2 carbon filters attached and my original 2 hang on filters.

The guy told me it should be able to handle the load of the goldfish, but if in a week or 2 the results are the same I can bring him in and they would take him for me.

Thank you so much for all the input and help, I really appreciate everyones input.


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

SuckMyCichlids said:


> i had a good experience with tetra safe start, its got bio spira or somthin or other bacteria that will help seed your tank and it helps keep ammonia and nitrite's down, for acouple days my tank's nitrites were 5.+ppm even after i did a 50% water change, so i went and added that stuff, when i came home from work 8-9hrs later my nitrites were at .5ppm and the next morning it was at 0.ppm, it's alittle pricey but i think its worth it.


I had the same experience with TSS. I had started my cycle with fish, not yet knowing about fishless cycling, and was through the first half of my cycle and had been combatting ammonia effectively with water changes, but once I got into the second stage my nitrites were off the charts even with a few 50% daily PWC in a row. Put in a bottle of TSS and my ammonia and nitrites were 0 in 12-24 hours. Amazing!


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## Cadiedid (Oct 26, 2011)

Just wondering... I thought my API booklet said that some products that neutralize ammonia will change it to a form that is still picked up by the test kit. Is this not true for Prime?


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## SuckMyCichlids (Nov 5, 2011)

Cadiedid said:


> Just wondering... I thought my API booklet said that some products that neutralize ammonia will change it to a form that is still picked up by the test kit. Is this not true for Prime?


I believe ive heard that somewhere as well but not too sure as the truth in it either


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Cadiedid said:


> Just wondering... I thought my API booklet said that some products that neutralize ammonia will change it to a form that is still picked up by the test kit. Is this not true for Prime?


It supposedly changes the ammonia to a non-toxic form and yes, the test will still detect it normally.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Cadiedid said:


> Just wondering... I thought my API booklet said that some products that neutralize ammonia will change it to a form that is still picked up by the test kit. Is this not true for Prime?


Absolutely true.!!!!!!! and it and other dechlor or ammonia locks also lock up oxygen also.

seachem makes a multitest kit for ammonia that measures both which is helpful if you use the chemicals.
the ammonia dots you leave in tank only measures the dangerous free ammonia (I think).

I did use prime when I make a big very dangerous screw up on my 55g mixed reef tank. And added it according to instructions. (ammonia tested at well over the 8ppm max of the api liquid test kit). After adding prime the sechem multi test kit did reflect that total ammonia (free and locked) was still high but free was low. It also set off a very deep cycle pegging nitrItes, some nitrates, a massive pH drop and so on. But a couple of fish I could not move to another tank did survive. Very much stressed (like to the point of being horizontal instead of vertical were moved to another tank filled with macro algaes and literally recovered and were upright in hours. all corals were lost in the original tank.

Ammonia dropped down in a day after I corrected the screwup by rinsing the filter media where I accidentally introduced a toxin.

so it is very possible to overdose prime.

And IMHO under anywhere normal conditions live plants and limited feeding are all that is needed to control the cycle ammonia nitrIte spikes.

my .02


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jccaclimber said:


> Out of curiosity, what was said "screwup"?


As near as I can figure I used latex type gloves (but actually not latex but you get the idea) while (among other things) rinsing out my filter media. 6 hours later all fish were breathing heavy and our prized 3 year old yellow tang was dead in the morning. I suspect the gloves had some antibiodic or oil which was toxic.

fortunately that was the only crash I have ever had. Learned once again to not fix something that's not broke. 

my .02


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