# Guppy, male, female, or other?



## ripit

I for the life of me can not figure out if this guppy is male. It was sold to me as a male. Its body shape is kind of like a female. As far as coloring going into the body instead of just the tail fin, the color goes a way up but it is still semi transparent like a female. As far as sex organs, it kind of but not really looks male except for momentary once in a while when the fin spreads out. Its almost like it keeps that fin clamped down but now and then for a moment it looks female. I have both females and males to compare with and have read what I can about telling them apart but I still can not tell. Other males chase and harass this one like it was a female. Fyi its the orange one, not the silver black big fat pregnant female, lol. 

Click on any picture, then click original under any picture and it will show the full size picture so you can see detail. Just click anywhere on the picture to shrink it back down. 

guppy Photo Gallery by Richard Homeyer at pbase.com


Edit: I moved it to a different tank a little while ago with females, and very much unlike the other males, it is mostly ignoring the big fat super pregnant female guppy. Thats the reason I separated the females in the first place (the males were all over the pregnant female non stop).


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## coralbandit

looks like male.


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## ripit

Thanks for the help. 

So here is a stranger question then. I read last night after I posted when I was searching about it, that a female can change sex into a male. According to one persons reports, it retains some of the female physical characteristics and other males will try to mate with it (which they do seem to be doing). Is there any possibility that is what it is?


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## jrman83

Its a male. If at any point it may not look like one, males usually are very colorful, it may be that it is just young and hasn't fully developed. I have had male young that I could not tell for a while, long after all the others I could. Some males will look very plain in color, like a female, and then as they mature so will their colors. 

As far as changing sex. In extreme situations maybe, but doubt very seriously that is what you're seeing.


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## coralbandit

there are many fish that can change sex. I'm not sure guppies do, but thunk swordtails do, so it would seem possible.Iwas also told wrasses in sw very often change to males. This is a survival trick.The books say in wild schools the lack of a male spurs females to change so they can re-produce.Your guppy looks like a male.I have female sword that has the start of a sword(she's had this a while)but still has fry monthly!


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## SueD

Also looks male to me. I've had a couple here and there with that same shape, not slim like the others but there was no gravid spot and their tails developed much more and eventually the gonopodium was evident.


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## ripit

From trying to read up on it last night, there seemed to be plenty of debate on guppies changing sex but many said they could. There was only one study sited anywhere that I briefly looked at from the 30's but it did confirm it. Everything I read said its female to male only but I did also run across people speaking about hermaphroditic guppies, specifically ones with male parts and a female looking gravid spot. One person said they had one have fry (that was odd as in most species hermaphrodites are sterile but I really don't know about species that can change sex). 

At one point I was fully convinced that it was a female based on behavior. I have a female that has stayed very pregnant looking and has had fry 3 times in about 2 months. I have had continuing problems as the males harass her non stop (she is now separated). The males harassed this one in the same manner. This one had no interest in the pregnant female and is in fact separated with the females (I was convinced it was female too). I didn't separate them to avoid breeding by the way, just to stop the endless harassment of that one female (and I moved the other female so that she would not be the only guppy). 

After posting I read that females have one fin and males have 2 parts in the same area. This one defiantly has 2 parts so its male? It does have some female looking characteristics to me though (just an amateur so I could be way off), and the behavior indicates something awry. The second I saw it at the fish store I wondered if a female had jumped tanks (and wound up getting an extra fish to get that one thinking it might be a female). 

I of course could be way of as I am new to this, but animals changing sex or even asexual reproduction is not really unheard of. I must admit there is something that planted the idea in my mind to make me read up on it. A friend has a male lizard that he has had for a few years, that just had babies (with no mate of either gender available). I did think it looked like a female the first time I saw it (males were on sale very cheap so I was hoping to score a cheap female, not that they are terribly expensive but it looked like a nice one). That and the behavior makes me still wonder...


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## ripit

SueD said:


> Also looks male to me. I've had a couple here and there with that same shape, not slim like the others but there was no gravid spot and their tails developed much more and eventually the gonopodium was evident.


 Thanks for the info. I kind of wonder if what they develop into can very/change when fry? Perhaps they start neutral and then develop gender (just a wild guess as I suspect some here know what really happens). If so perhaps they start in one direction but can alter to the other, causing ambiguous characteristics. 
Believe it or not, in humans, the only thing that makes a male be a male externally is a hormone from the mother. Some male babies are insensitive to this hormone so they stay female externally (human babies are female by default and change to male due to a hormone). Of course they are still genetically male or female.


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## ripit

So how do I tell a female gravid spot? Is it that they have a clear area at the rear of the abdomen?


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## SueD

It's generally a dark spot at the rear of the abdomen, just in front of the anal fin. It gets darker when pregnant, but is still quite apparent when they are young. And there will be nothing like this spot on a male.


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## navigator black

With swordtails, there were lots of reports of sex changes, but most were due to a common misconception. I wish I could cite the scientific paper I read on this, but it was a few years ago and it was online. Since I read it, I have been able to see it in my tanks though, as I breed a lot of wild swords. here goes:

A lot of Poecilia family livebearers (swords, platys, guppies, mollies) have two distinct types of males. With swordtails, there is a slender type of male that matures early, pops a good sized sword and keeps a slender, aerodynamic body. They are alpha males, and they live very short lives compared to the others in their brood. They burn out quickly.
The remaining fish develop gravid spots, however, a second type of male also exists. Late maturing males survive the alphas by having a late puberty. My Xiphophorus maeyi, in the second captive generation had males develop gonopodiums at 14 months of age (I raised them through the whole cycle). The pigment in the gravid spot moved down along the base of the body and into the developing sword, to provide its colour. They had high backed bodies like females, but were perfectly normal males. 
With their anal fins and their gravid spots, I was sure they were female and would have said it was a sex change if I hadn't read the research and watched the gravid spot move on down. It was kind of neat.
True sex change happens, as do hermaphrodites, but both are extremely rare.

All of this is a wordy nerdy way of saying that's probably a late blooming male. My theory is that some never become sexual.


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## ripit

navigator black said:


> With swordtails, there were lots of reports of sex changes, but most were due to a common misconception. I wish I could cite the scientific paper I read on this, but it was a few years ago and it was online. Since I read it, I have been able to see it in my tanks though, as I breed a lot of wild swords. here goes:
> 
> A lot of Poecilia family livebearers (swords, platys, guppies, mollies) have two distinct types of males. With swordtails, there is a slender type of male that matures early, pops a good sized sword and keeps a slender, aerodynamic body. They are alpha males, and they live very short lives compared to the others in their brood. They burn out quickly.
> The remaining fish develop gravid spots, however, a second type of male also exists. Late maturing males survive the alphas by having a late puberty. My Xiphophorus maeyi, in the second captive generation had males develop gonopodiums at 14 months of age (I raised them through the whole cycle). The pigment in the gravid spot moved down along the base of the body and into the developing sword, to provide its colour. They had high backed bodies like females, but were perfectly normal males.
> With their anal fins and their gravid spots, I was sure they were female and would have said it was a sex change if I hadn't read the research and watched the gravid spot move on down. It was kind of neat.
> True sex change happens, as do hermaphrodites, but both are extremely rare.
> 
> All of this is a wordy nerdy way of saying that's probably a late blooming male. My theory is that some never become sexual.


It sounds like a perfectly reasonable explanation to me. I kind of wonder if the semi female physical characteristics are what prompt other males to chase this one around like a female? I can not remember exactly what was said but in another forum thread where someone observed "sex change" in guppies, in the back of my mind I'm thinking it kind of works with this idea. That was the one where they stated males would also chase the different male like it was a female. I have read so many things (about this but more about a sick tank I'm treating) that I can not really remember what I read where. 

Thanks for the explanation!!


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## navigator black

They are livebearers, and very wired for reproduction (he said, politely). I have a surplus of males in a group of wild caught mollies, and while they don't especially harass my lone female, they do harass each other big time. They constantly court each other, and beyond. 
I have seen male guppies harass snails, as well as fish of entirely different, egg-laying species. To be attractive to a male guppy, you don't need female characteristics as much as you need to be alive and vaguely moving.


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## ripit

navigator black said:


> They are livebearers, and very wired for reproduction (he said, politely). I have a surplus of males in a group of wild caught mollies, and while they don't especially harass my lone female, they do harass each other big time. They constantly court each other, and beyond.
> I have seen male guppies harass snails, as well as fish of entirely different, egg-laying species. To be attractive to a male guppy, you don't need female characteristics as much as you need to be alive and vaguely moving.


I'm kind of getting the impression a couple of my mollies are the same way....


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## coralbandit

navs right. the better explanation is the late blooming male. just read(again) about this and seems more common and realistic.Possibly a way for males to survive in a unsurvivable enviroment.So then the real question is which type of male is better for breeding stock?


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## z1200

I think his body shape looks theway it does because before livebearers mature they often get a round belly during the adolescent stage. My guppies usually start to lose the roundness around 3 or 4 months old. Or he may just be overfed.

Look at the little guy in my profile pic. He has a little belly.


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## emeraldking

Hi from Holland,

I've seen the pics of your orange guppy. The gonopodium is definately there... so, it's male!
The sex change is a fact! It doesn't even occur with fish but also with other animals... It's indeed an survival thing to make sure that reproduction can continue. When the ratio male/female is out of balance, this is a sure thing to happen then...
I myself have seen it with several livebearers throughout the years. And believe me when someone is saying that such a sex change is nonsense, this person just doesn't know what he/she's talking about!
I've started keeping coldwater, subtropical and tropical fish ever since early '70's. That's already over 40 years by now... And it's true, just females change into males. All young males will be born with the same shaped fins like females. But only females are only born with a gravid spot. The anal fin is the same at the beginning. Once changed into a gonopodium (males), this gonopodium can never change into a normal anal fin again.
While the females still do have the normal anal fin, it will be just the females who can still change sex in this case.
Yes, even when a female gets pregnant and have offspring (no matter how often), she's still able to change sex. The funny part is that such a female will keep the gravid spot but have all other characteristics of a male. And yes, these females are still fertile and are able to impregnate other females as well.
And there are indeed the late maturing males. These males look like a female for a long time (but they don't have a gravid spot) if you look at the way they're build. They become also larger than the average male and will develop the male characteristics quite late.

But to repeat myself: Sex change does occur! And with livebearers it happens on a frequent bases. I've been witnessing this for many years in all of my tanks which I had and still have...

There are also (and specifically with guppies) males who tend to form a gonopodium but in some way it will never develop into a real gonopodium. These males (and they're real males and no hermaphrodites) ain't fertile!

Hope you're able to use this information?

Take care, "S"

P.S.,
I've got my own website. Just in case you like to take a peek...

emeraldking-aquatics


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