# Aquarium without substrate



## aryan (Sep 7, 2012)

If I keep my tank without any substrate will there be any complications ?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

no complications, just an easier to clean tank.All my fry tanks and breeder tanks have no substrate.They are much easier to vacum to perfection.


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## aryan (Sep 7, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> no complications, just an easier to clean tank.All my fry tanks and breeder tanks have no substrate.They are much easier to vacum to perfection.


Thanks for your reply. Previously I was using 1 undergravel filter. Now I have realized that its no good. 

I am planning to do partial (50%) water change per week. Can I keep the tank without a filter ?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

your tank will not be healthy without filter,I use air driven sponges in my breeder tanks and clean( vac & change water) them regulary.Almost any filter will work.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

aryan said:


> If I keep my tank without any substrate will there be any complications ?


Hello aryan.

One of my fishy friends dosen't use any substrate but underneath the tank she sticks on a seablue backdrop. It takes the starkness away and looks really great and shows her fish up as well. It surprised me just how lovely it looked when I saw them Just a thought


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

Why would you say an undergravel is no good? They take a little maintenance, but not nearly as much as a bare bottomed tank, which has to be constantly vacuumed to pick up the wastes that settle everywhere. 
You can always keep a tank without a filter, but it is much harder to keep fish in it.... what do you have in there?


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## aryan (Sep 7, 2012)

navigator black said:


> Why would you say an undergravel is no good? They take a little maintenance, but not nearly as much as a bare bottomed tank, which has to be constantly vacuumed to pick up the wastes that settle everywhere.
> You can always keep a tank without a filter, but it is much harder to keep fish in it.... what do you have in there?


One of my friends told me that undergravel filters are inferior in comparison to top power filters. 

I got 8 Gold fishes.


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## Sayonarax (Aug 17, 2012)

How big your Tank?

Why would you want a tank with nothing in it? Sorry they arnt aquariums in my book, there fish jails. If you cant spend 30mins with a vac cleaning ya tank once a week you might as well go find another hobby. Ive always noticed fish who live in glass boxes with just air bubble, too be very boring and inactive fish. They want to swim and explore while looking for food.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

An under-gravel filter is nearly useless for goldfish - they just produce too much waste.
8 goldfish - wow! How big is your tank!
I ask because to house 8 goldfish fully grown you'd need in excess of 100g!
A filter only starts working properly after about 4-6 weeks in the tank and during that time, conditions are pretty scary for the fish (Downright dangerous!)
cb


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

aryan said:


> If I keep my tank without any substrate will there be any complications ?


Ayran

When you said no substrate did you mean 'nothing' on the tank floor at all.The reason i'm asking this is because my friend though she hasnt got gravel she has got all different size rocks,pebbles,terracotta pots,caves but most importantly she's only got a small shoal of Neons.

I hope i'm wrong in feeling you won't come back but what size are these Goldfish you have and in what size tank?

goldie


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Sayonarax said:


> How big your Tank?
> 
> Why would you want a tank with nothing in it? Sorry they arnt aquariums in my book, there fish jails. If you cant spend 30mins with a vac cleaning ya tank once a week you might as well go find another hobby. Ive always noticed fish who live in glass boxes with just air bubble, too be very boring and inactive fish. They want to swim and explore while looking for food.


HelloSayanoraz

I 'm a newbie here and i can't stick cruelty to any creatures but,that part of your post 'you might as well go find another hobby'. Just my opinion but is that helping the fish?.. Just maybe if this poster had come back on he/she 'may' have taken notice of views about this and 'maybe' the fish would have benefited from advice from posters.Nobody knows including myself how large the tank is, what size the fish are,whether the fish are to be in there permanantly.Do you think this poster will come back now.Just my opinion but i think a lot would not and possibly go elsewhere!


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Sayonarax said:


> How big your Tank?
> 
> Why would you want a tank with nothing in it? Sorry they arnt aquariums in my book, there fish jails. If you cant spend 30mins with a vac cleaning ya tank once a week you might as well go find another hobby. Ive always noticed fish who live in glass boxes with just air bubble, too be very boring and inactive fish. They want to swim and explore while looking for food.


There are many reasons to have a bare tank - or relatively bare tank and also many reasons to have plants and decorations.

One huge advantage for goldfish is that because they produce a lot of waste and are quite messy eaters, tank hygiene is easier to get right.
There is a counter to this argument and it is based on the surface area required for Ammonia and Nitrate consuming bacteria to operate effectively. Gravel and sand provide a massive surface area - far more than a HOB filter or internal filter can actually provide.

This needs to be compensated for in the media used in the filter. A small 350gph internal filter has about 1/20th of the media and therefore potential surface area than a canister filter rated for the same tank has.

I confess, I started out with goldfish and in far worse conditions than these ones - but I learned my lessons and now have more suitable fish in a more suitable tank!

cb


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a learning curve, and you have begun with a mistake. You will have to solve it, that's all. Ignore the drama about finding another hobby - I assume you want to get this right and will put a little effort into it.

First off, you can't keep 8 goldfish in an indoors tank. People do it, but without enormous tanks, it is not pleasant for the fish or the fishkeeper. Goldfish poop like cows - they are very inefficient at digesting their plant-based food, and they can make their environments toxic very quickly. Honestly, 8 goldies in a 50 gallon (if you have that) will need 50% water changes every other day.

Goldfish feed on gravel. They roll it around and clean the biofilm and micro-organisms off it, and so they really should have a substrate. Every species of fish has evolved behaviors and needs which may be different from other species, and you have to go case by case. When you first posted, you didn't mention goldies.
A bare tank would be knee deep in crap (if goldies had knees) in no time. For them, you need a filter that removes and mechanically filters large volumes of waste, and that you constantly clean. Undergravels can be great for other types of fish, and if you gravel vacuum too, I would suggest running both. You can have UG biological filtration and a mechanical removal from a large hang on the back set-up.
Get down to one goldfish per 20-30 gallons and you should be able to provide them with a decent habitat. 

Frankly, I think goldfish are for outdoor ponds, and that they are not a good fish to try to keep indoors in a tank. There are so many other options that would be way less work and so much more interesting than a deformed golden carp waddling through waste-loaded water....


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

navigator black said:


> It's a learning curve, and you have begun with a mistake. You will have to solve it, that's all. Ignore the drama about finding another hobby - I assume you want to get this right and will put a little effort into it.
> 
> First off, you can't keep 8 goldfish in an indoors tank. People do it, but without enormous tanks, it is not pleasant for the fish or the fishkeeper. Goldfish poop like cows - they are very inefficient at digesting their plant-based food, and they can make their environments toxic very quickly. Honestly, 8 goldies in a 50 gallon (if you have that) will need 50% water changes every other day.
> 
> ...


Navigator, if their common goldfish i agree but, if their fancies you would know their not as tough, so if they were put in a pond but. left over winter in a unheated pond, chances are they may die.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc..._YGQAg&usg=AFQjCNEGWZ-4u764Dkh_w9lIWMv_7YBmNg ))


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## aryan (Sep 7, 2012)

I dont know why but my fishes are dying. 1 dies yesterday & 2 died today.

At the moment there is no filter in my tank. Is that the reason ?

I have changed water day before yesterday.


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Yes aryan that would be one reason amongst others
How many gallons is the tank and now you have 5 Goldfish. What size are they?


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## Sayonarax (Aug 17, 2012)

aryan said:


> I dont know why but my fishes are dying. 1 dies yesterday & 2 died today.
> 
> At the moment there is no filter in my tank. Is that the reason ?
> 
> I have changed water day before yesterday.


You need a filter.

*pc


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## aryan (Sep 7, 2012)

My tank size is 18 X 18 X 12. Here is a pic :


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

goldie said:


> Navigator, if their common goldfish i agree but, if their fancies you would know their not as tough, so if they were put in a pond but. left over winter in a unheated pond, chances are they may die.
> 
> Good point, except the poster is in India, and if I recall from past postings, not in the north of India.
> 
> ...


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Thank you for telling me that Navigator. I must make a special point of looking as to where people are posting from lol


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for your thanks coralbandit))


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

I wasn't trying to be snotty (sorry if I sounded that way) - I'm sitting in Canada and it's already getting cool. I'm with you 100% on the original posting as a general principle - you are right. 

Most people don't put where they are posting from, and having a poster from India is kind of neat to me. It stuck in my mind, as few things do ;-)


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

every detail counts!


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## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Okay Navigator I thought you were that's why I was laughing and being rather sarcy .Sorry


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