# NOOB with a 2 foot tank



## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

Am reposting here instead of the new members welcome section:

_wow, didnt know there was so much to do when keeping a tank, but it's great, keeps me from smoking!

So unfortunately i didnt do the whole nitrogen cycle and my fish, gravel and plants are already in the tank and have been there for 2 weeks now and seem to be ok. I used some of the water i got from the fish farm where i purchased the fish and tank and mixed it with water from the tap which was treated with conditioner. I'll pick up a test kit asap. Whats the best way to establish the cycle now that the fish are in there. 

I have a 3 foot tank, with an upper filter, is that ok? i honestly dont have any idea about filters, was given this with the tank, it's not like what i used to have when i was a kid, you know the hang on ones with a sponge like filter. I live in Singapore and bought the tank and the instructions all came in Chinese/Mandarin so i have no idea what the filter does or is any good, had a look on the website, it doesnt say much, it's a BOYU UF-230 and seen that it does the following:

Upper Filter

1. Easy to dismantle and clean, 

2. High outflow pump to ensure water clean.

3. length can be adjusted to suit for different sizes of fish tanks.

It's a loud beast but if it keeps the tank clean and the fish healthy im ok with it.

Anyway got some plastic plants (really want some real ones but are they are a pain to maintain?) , some reefwood, gravel and a tacky ship (which my son liked). The fish i have are a red lipped parrot fish, angel fish, gourami and a sliver shark. i was told that they would be all k with each other but im finding that the Parrot fish gets a bit rowdy with the others and the gourami gets rowdy with the angel fish and silver shark. I notice that they all get a little ratty come feeding time so maybe it's a food thing.

I havent cleaned the tank as of yet (10-20% water change ok?), am waiting for the siphon so i can do it properly without moving the plants and distressing the fish.

If i need anything else please let me know, im trying to cover all bases here being the noob i am!

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so got my siphon and decided to do a water change, only did 15%.

Also recieved my master kit and got the following results:

PH 7.6
High Range PH 7.4
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrate 1.0

Bit stuck at what to do, i have an angelfish and according to the book they like a low PH, the parrot fish likes a high, is it best to go for a 7 for a variety of fish?

Is it worth using PH up or down?_


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Welcome.

Can't really speed things along when you're dealing with fish during the cycle. You basically have to monitor and react accordingly to make sure your fish make it through. 

With those results I would do another water change and keep doing them (one per day) until the values for ammonia/nitrite are 1 or below. I would do a 25% minimum. Once the cycle is complete you can shift to a weekly water change.

I would leave the ph alone. Most fish will adjust. Using ph up/down products are not safe for your fish. Your ph will move when using them, but the buffers in your water will more than likely take it back to where it was in just a couple of hours time. Not safe.


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

def do water changes till your amonia is 0...other wise you can stress out the fish and could lose some


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

deemi786 said:


> ...
> 
> . Whats the best way to establish the cycle now that the fish are in there.
> 
> ...


using live plants!.

The plants will rapidly consume the ammonia directly preventing the ammonia spikes you are experiencing.


my .02


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks for the advice people, any plants recommended? i'll do the water changes too but would love to get some real plants in there!

And what is the best way to put the plants in there? I really dont want to move the fish out of there so is it just a case of putting my hands in and getting the plant in there and making sure i dont smack a few of the fish whilst doing it?

Also when doing the water change, do you have to get all of the dirt out, i really only got "what i could see" on the gravel and left a bit still in there..


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Don't concentrate too much on your gravel when it is cycling. Let the bacteria grow. Once the cycle is completed, then do 1/2 per week during your normal water changes.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks allot people! Really appreciate your help! I'm really using the 2 footer as a starting tank, if i'm able to keep the fish healthy and the tank clean enough, im hoping to upgrade to a much, much bigger tank. 

Will keep you posted.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

deemi786 said:


> thanks for the advice people, any plants recommended? i'll do the water changes too but would love to get some real plants in there!


water plants.*old dude (actually not totally a joke as some "aquarium" plants sold are actually house plants that don't do well underwater.)


> And what is the best way to put the plants in there? I really dont want to move the fish out of there so is it just a case of putting my hands in and getting the plant in there and making sure i dont smack a few of the fish whilst doing it?
> 
> Also when doing the water change, do you have to get all of the dirt out, i really only got "what i could see" on the gravel and left a bit still in there..


I use a mix of fast growing (anacharis, vals, wisteria), slower growers(small potted types), and a single amazon sword as a centerpiece.

I use 1" peat moss, 1" sand, and 1" gravel for a substrate and basically just push the plants in there. The sand is what helps the plant root. but that said you can use aquarium gravel if deap enough.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

How big is this tank? 40gal?


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

i'd say more like 20.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok, just realized you reposted, so I'm copying my overly verbose response from your other thread here. Cheers!

I'm only a year into the hobby myself so I can't really give specific advice on your fish species as I have no experience with them. I'm sure soon enough someone else on the forum will be able to help there.

As for the water chemistry, I think you caught it just in time. I'll try to address a few things related to your test results.

pH - don't worry about it for now. Most fish are pretty adaptable to pH and it can be difficult to maintain a constant pH when using chemical methods to adjust it. Most consider it best to just leave it alone unless it is wildly out of range (which yours is not), in which case there are better methods out there than the up/down products.

Ammonia and nitrate suggest that your cycle is still just getting started. Eventually, you will have a couple colonies of bacteria in your tank (they get there on their own or you can seed them by borrowing filter media, gravel, or decorations from an established tank) that convert ammonia to nitrites and then nitrites to nitrates. Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all harmful to your fish, but to different degrees. Ammonia and nitrites are stressful to your fish at 1 ppm and becomes dangerous over that. Nitrates are usually safe at least up to 40 ppm.

That being said, some fish are more susceptible to poor water chemistry and I have heard that Angels are in that category. The cycle will eventually establish itself on its own, but how you handle the next few weeks will determine how stressful (and possibly lethal) it will be to your fish.

So here's my suggestion. Do daily partial water changes with your new siphon. I would start with 50% water changes. Make sure that the fresh water you put back in the tank is dechlorinated and about the same temperature as the tank. Try to add it slowly over minutes or tens of minutes as opposed to dumping in a bucket so the fish don't experience shock from rapid changes in water chemistry.

The goal is to get ammonia below 1 ppm and keep it there. Check the ammonia and nitrite levels each day to get a feel for how well your water changes are keeping these at bay. Periodically check nitrates as well, but you probably won't see any change in these until near the end of the cycle being established. Once you get a feel for how fast the ammonia and nitrites build up in your tank, you can adjust the percentage you replace up or down to keep the chemistry at safe levels.

I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it is temporary and will substantially improve the odds of your fish surviving the process. Over the next few weeks, bacterial colonies will begin to establish themselves in the tank that will do much of this work for you. If you're watching the chemistry regularly, you will see that ammonia levels begin to drop (or build more slowly) at about the same time that nitrites begin to spike. A while later (days to several weeks depending on the tank) the nitrites will begin to go down and nitrates will begin going up. You will know the cycle is fully established when ammonia and nitrites are zero regardless of your water changes. At that point you will only be doing water changes to keep nitrates low (I'm thinking below 20 ppm for angels, but someone else can probably give you better advice on that).

As mentioned above, you can speed this process a bit if you can get filter media, gravel, or decorations from an established tank as these will contain some of the bacteria you need. Very little of the bacteria is actually in the water, so transferring water doesn't usually help very much.

I also saw you mentioned live plants. There are many on the forum that can advise you there. I don't have any yet, but am planning to in the future. But I can say that they definitely help with your water quality. The consume ammonia and nitrates and produce oxygen for your fish. They are certainly something you should consider. What is required depends on the plant. There are some plants that require nutrient rich substrates (not just gravel) and lots of lighting, while at the opposite end of the spectrum, there are some you can literally throw in just about any tank (planted or floating) and expect to grow.

Sorry for writing such a long post. Hopefully it is helpful. Good luck to you and keep us posted.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

Been doing daily water changes of 50% and i forgot to ask, am i suppossed to be doing the tests before or after the water changes? 

I have been doing them just before a water change so excuse me for my ignorance if i have been doing it incorrectly.

Anyway my findings for today are:

PH: 6.0
Ammonia:2.0 ppm
Nitrate: 2.0 ppm

Will carry on with the water changes everyday until they are at normal readings.

Am trying to get hold of some water plants and gravel, so if anyone is around Singapore and fancies giving me some gravel to kick start off my tank?!!

Also does anyone recommend live food instead of pellets or is pellet food the way to go?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Honestly i prefer to mix pellet,frozen and live.

I think you may need to look on Aquabid for a seller who can either ship internationally(customs i think will make it hard)or see if you can go on local collection trips.Look for a local aquarium club,they have meetings and go on local collection trips.I dont think they would let us send from the states.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would test before and after. A little overkill, but it teaches you what changes to expect after water changes in the future. 

Give the tank a couple of hours to turn over the water before you conduct a new test after a water change though.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

deemi786 said:


> Been doing daily water changes of 50% and i forgot to ask, am i suppossed to be doing the tests before or after the water changes?
> 
> I have been doing them just before a water change so excuse me for my ignorance if i have been doing it incorrectly.
> 
> ...


Personally, I always do my chemistry before the water change, but that is just my preference. The few times I have done before and after, the results are always very predictable. However, sometimes if you're not sure of a number, having before and after can make it easier to estimate what it really was.

By the way, are you checking nitrites as well, or just ammonia and nitrates?

Good luck with your water quality. Keep us posted.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

My results after todays water change

pH6.6
HIGH RANGE pH 7.4
AMMONIA 1.0 ppm
NITRATE NO2 1.0 ppm
NITRATE NO3 5.0 ppm


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Those are good for now. Just monitor daily and if the values climb do another water change.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

should i continue with the water changes or now just do it once every 2 weeks depending on what the water test results are?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Personally, I wouldn't go longer than a week once the cycle is complete. If you wanted to go two weeks to let the cycle finish, then that may be okay.


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

deemi786 said:


> should i continue with the water changes or now just do it once every 2 weeks depending on what the water test results are?


I would do regular testing and make sure to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 1 ppm. I'm tempted to say even lower as ammonia tends to be more poisonous in acidic environments (pH<7).

Once your cycle has stabilized, you shouldn't ever be able to detect any measurable ammonia or nitrites and you only need to do water changes to keep the nitrates down (unless you have enough plants to take care of that for you). The chemistry results will let you know how often you need to change the water which can really be anywhere from days to months depending on your fish/water/plant balance.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for all you replies, honestly i cant thank you all enough! Great to know i have experts i can rely on to help me out.

I need to know how much to feed my fish, the differing "instructions" on the backs of the food/pellet tubs confuse the hell out of me, some say feed the fish 2-3 times a day, some say as much as they want in a period of 5 mins, 3-4 times a day.

What's the best way to deal with this. I only say this because i bought some bloodworms yesterday and my fish attacked it like it was crack cocaine! They consumed every single shred within a few sec's and every time i put in more, they ate more!!!

Also best to vary the feeds, pellet meal in the morning, blood worms in the afternoon, pellets again in the evening?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Bettas are notorious for overeating if you let them,and seeing as thats all i house,i have to watch how much to feed them.I dont go by the containers.I will feed them a few pellets each,twice a day,morning and then evening.I will feed them frozen in place of the pellets every so often,at one meal,mostly evening,and in the summer ill switch the frozen for live.Most fish will suck up bloodworms fast,and will eat them until their bellies pop(literally).just watch and what you think will fill the bellies is enough.

And yes a varied diet is best.They get varied in the wild and you would of course get tired of eating the same thing day in and day out.


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## deemi786 (Jan 6, 2011)

Problem time, for some reason my yellow parrot fish is turning black, had black spots on its body and fins a little, seems to be clearing up a little bit now. Am worried that the petshop i bought it from dyed it as i have heard it's common.

And the Angelfish is really getting it from the parrot fish and gourami, am thinking of separating them cause i really dont like the way they try to take bites out of it.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Turning black? I'd be looking to see if that is some type of fungus. Never heard of it, but it would get me searching.


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