# Please help before I lose another one. :(



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

Hello all. I have a 75 gallon tank with 7 different types of goldfish. 2 orandas, 1 Lionhead, 2 black moors, and 2 goldfish. I have had the tank for well over a year. I have 2 filters going and lots of air. I do water changes and vacumn the bottom ever 1 to 1 1/2 weeks.

Last week I noticed one of my fish had some lumps on his side. Looking it up it seemed like bad water or possibly tumors. A couple of days later one of my goldfish died (not the one with the lumps). Then a within a couple more days another of my goldfish died. I did a 25% water change and treated the water with terminate for 3 days. I have used the before when we suspected the fish had some type of parasite and it worked great. After the terminate I followed it up with a dose today of Aqua Prazi after noticing one of my Orandas just laying on the bottom. He is upright but just sits there. I am getting ready to feed them some peas but not sure what is happening?

All my water parameters are good.

FYI the lumps on the one fish have gone down significantly which leads me to believe it is some type of parasite?>

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
NitrIte 0
PH 7.8

Any ideas?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

has the temp of tank changed(people in the north are turning on their furnaces)?Nothing esle changed?


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

It could have changed as it has been chilly here. I have turned my heat on some but nothing extreme. I thought that goldfish tolerate temperature changes?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

small change shouldn't be a problem but goldfish are cold water fish.When the temp elavates oxygen levels go down.With 2 filters and air this shouldn't be a problem.I tried to search terminate but could find no info so I'm un aware of what this med does(I'll guess it's for parasites)? The aqua prazi is also a parasite med? Is there the possibilty they lower oxygen(read warnings on bottle)?With out proper diagnoses I don't advocate meds ,but always advocate water changes.You listed possible cause of lump being dirty water, if so you can safely change 50% or more with out concern(make sure to de-chlorinate).I know you did 25%. Gold fish are known waste creators,therefore polluting water.The peas sound like a good / safe idea.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

tirwin88 said:


> Hello all. I have a 75 gallon tank with 7 different types of goldfish. 2 orandas, 1 Lionhead, 2 black moors, and 2 goldfish. I have had the tank for well over a year. I have 2 filters going and lots of air. I do water changes and vacumn the bottom ever 1 to 1 1/2 weeks.
> 
> Last week I noticed one of my fish had some lumps on his side. Looking it up it seemed like bad water or possibly tumors. A couple of days later one of my goldfish died (not the one with the lumps). Then a within a couple more days another of my goldfish died. I did a 25% water change and treated the water with terminate for 3 days. I have used the before when we suspected the fish had some type of parasite and it worked great. After the terminate I followed it up with a dose today of Aqua Prazi after noticing one of my Orandas just laying on the bottom. He is upright but just sits there. I am getting ready to feed them some peas but not sure what is happening?
> 
> ...


Hello Tirwin
What test kit are you using because some are not at all accurate. The API liquid is the best as many say. Also when you say raised lumps,what colour are they & are the fish flicking/flashing at all. 
I agree, i would'nt put anymore meds in untill you can try and find out exactly what's going on with them,i would also concentrate on water changes.Also I would put carbon in the filter for now to really clear the meds.
It 'may'. help a lot if your able to post a pic of them
btw I have always had a heater in with mine keeping them at a 'constant' temperature (68f)with adequate areation


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> small change shouldn't be a problem but goldfish are cold water fish.When the temp elavates oxygen levels go down.With 2 filters and air this shouldn't be a problem.I tried to search terminate but could find no info so I'm un aware of what this med does(I'll guess it's for parasites)? The aqua prazi is also a parasite med? Is there the possibilty they lower oxygen(read warnings on bottle)?With out proper diagnoses I don't advocate meds ,but always advocate water changes.You listed possible cause of lump being dirty water, if so you can safely change 50% or more with out concern(make sure to de-chlorinate).I know you did 25%. Gold fish are known waste creators,therefore polluting water.The peas sound like a good / safe idea.



Terminate is used mainly in Ponds but I had success in using it before and was recommended to me. I have 2 huge ponds as well. It treats all types of parasites. With each Terminate application, a 25% or more water change is needed. I did a 50% water change on the last application and a little over 25 with the other 2. I waited 2 days and then did the Prazi as my favorite fish started showing signs like the other 2 did before they died. He is on the bottom...breathing a little heavy. He is eating though. And will swim to eat but then settles back down on the bottom.


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

goldie said:


> Hello Tirwin
> What test kit are you using because some are not at all accurate. The API liquid is the best as many say. Also when you say raised lumps,what colour are they & are the fish flicking/flashing at all.
> I agree, i would'nt put anymore meds in untill you can try and find out exactly what's going on with them,i would also concentrate on water changes.Also I would put carbon in the filter for now to really clear the meds.
> It 'may'. help a lot if your able to post a pic of them
> btw I have always had a heater in with mine keeping them at a 'constant' temperature (68f)with adequate areation



I use the API test kits.  The lumps are just raised up under his scales. He is showing no signs of stress. I have noticed throughout the day that the bumps form a white tip..almost like a pimple. The lumps are down significantly and it appears the meds in the water are helping him. My concern though is the fish on the bottom which seems to be gulping a little more then normal. This is what my other fish did before they passed. Although this guy doesnt look as bad. I thought right away Flukes on the gills?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I don't know Tirwin. I just googled. Does it look like this on this pic which says Flukes,ick.protozoa
http://images.google.com/url?source...8wc4Aw&usg=AFQjCNFbJ8zvEkfJaaeI2XfJMJzhILKR9g

I also googled Terminate & though you said you had good results from that med before it read to watch the Koi for about one hour after dosing the pond & if they started gulping for air or coughing to do a 50% water change straight away and add carbon to remove the med. Hell iv'e got koi but reading that i wouldn't dare use it on them after reading that i would go for something milder,also it didn't say can be used in Aquaria but, having said that i am a jitterbug about meds lol.

If your Oranda breathing bad was sounding stronger a salt bath 'might' have helped but as it's sounding quite wobbly at the moment, think that option might be too much for it.


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

goldie said:


> I don't know Tirwin. I just googled. Does it look like this on this pic which says Flukes,ick.protozoa
> http://images.google.com/url?source...8wc4Aw&usg=AFQjCNFbJ8zvEkfJaaeI2XfJMJzhILKR9g
> 
> I also googled Terminate & though you said you had good results from that med before it read to watch the Koi for about one hour after dosing the pond & if they started gulping for air or coughing to do a 50% water change straight away and add carbon to remove the med. Hell iv'e got koi but reading that i wouldn't dare use it on them after reading that i would go for something milder,also it didn't say can be used in Aquaria but, having said that i am a jitterbug about meds lol.
> ...



They were fine the first hour...the one fish did it prior to the terminate. I added salt already to the aquarium last night hoping that would help. No change but he isnt getting any worse. Ate peas last night and I have not seen him poo yet....now wondering if he is constipated.
Not sure if that will cause the sitting on the bottom and slight gasping. Shoudl I add the carbon back?


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It does indeed sound like flukes as does sit on bottom/lethargic/gasping(last sign before death).Kordon Rid ich plus has formalin and malachite green which are recommended for treatment of flukes and many other parasites.The warning goldie stated confirms(to me ) suspiscion of low oxygen.I would change 50% water and use Kordon Rid Ich plus.Flukes is a very diffacult infestation to get rid of (some articles say nearly impossible if aloud to get hold on victim).Not a advocate of meds for undiagnosed illness I would still get right on it as it appears your losing your fish regardless.Sorry and hope this helps.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I agree ,i would get all that other stuff out as coralbandit said.I really hope your fish makes it


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> It does indeed sound like flukes as does sit on bottom/lethargic/gasping(last sign before death).Kordon Rid ich plus has formalin and malachite green which are recommended for treatment of flukes and many other parasites.The warning goldie stated confirms(to me ) suspiscion of low oxygen.I would change 50% water and use Kordon Rid Ich plus.Flukes is a very diffacult infestation to get rid of (some articles say nearly impossible if aloud to get hold on victim).Not a advocate of meds for undiagnosed illness I would still get right on it as it appears your losing your fish regardless.Sorry and hope this helps.


he is not real lethargic yet? When I go to the tank he swims up and wants food. He is swimming around right now. I have some jungle ich guard on hand...should I use that?

Koi RX Terminate is supposed to cure ich...which is the main one it cures. I see no flashing etc but just assumed it was some type of parasite. How do I do a Salt bath? I would like to try whatever I can!


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

your looking for formalin and malachite green as active ingredients.If jungle has them sure.I just read about flukes as another thread very recently was on this issue "fish are acting strange"by ghostfish 2012 .Check it out it may where I found info.


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

SeaChem Paraguard:









*The Product States*: ParaGuard™ is the only fish and filter safe aldehyde based (10% by weight) parasite control product available. Unlike highly toxic and difficult to use formalin based medications, ParaGuard™ contains no formaldehyde or methanol and will not alter pH. ParaGuard™ employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicates many ectoparasites on fish (e.g. ich, etc.) and external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions (e.g., fin rot). It is particularly useful in hospital and receiving tanks for new fish and whenever new fish are introduced to a community tank. For use in freshwater or marine.

I stand by this stuff...


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

Brian757 said:


> SeaChem Paraguard:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where do I get this at? What are the chances my lil guy will make it?

Should I give him a salt bath?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

tirwin88 said:


> he is not real lethargic yet? When I go to the tank he swims up and wants food. He is swimming around right now. I have some jungle ich guard on hand...should I use that?
> 
> Koi RX Terminate is supposed to cure ich...which is the main one it cures. I see no flashing etc but just assumed it was some type of parasite. How do I do a Salt bath? I would like to try whatever I can!


Tirwin,I.m not thinking at all that the Terminate killed any of your fish, just feel it's too strong now as they are weak(ish)
Are you sure they weren't flicking at all. The googled pic i put up, does it look like that. Are they smooth lumps or do they have like stringy/fluffy stuff on them at all
I can't load up pics myself but. are you able to put a pic on here or get someone to do it for you. That could help a lot to actually see it


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Brian757 said:


> SeaChem Paraguard:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh i see that covers Fungus as well because as their not flicking i was wondering if it was fungus


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

tirwin88 said:


> Where do I get this at? What are the chances my lil guy will make it?
> 
> Should I give him a salt bath?


You can really get it at any LPS. A LOT of places who have half a brain will stock Seachem. I love their products. Let me check for some chain petshops and see if they have them. 

...Petsmart doesn't stock it, neither does Petco. For a reference, all 4 of my petstores carry them. Please use this product. I have faith that your fish will make it once you begin treatment. Just begin using it in under a week. The quicker you are, the better.

In terms of a salt bath, you could try raising the water temperature and doing salt, but I would use the Seachem because it won't stress your fish out as much as a temperature fluctuation and salt treatment.

I also use Seachem KanaPlex. I have 3 bottles of Kanaplex for fungus that grows on my turtles shell. I also use sulfur dip for him too. But the Kanaplex was miraculous for the fungus on one of my cichlids eyes. In a week, it cleared up. It also helps fish who become lethargic and won't eat. You just pour it into the water and it kills bacteria/fungus inside and out of the fish. People lose their fish all the time because of poor chemical treatments or the lack-thereof. Seachem has saved the lives of many of my fish in the past. I have never lost a fish due to disease or any unnatural cause. Seachem works..

On a second note, Seachem should consider hiring me. Jeez, I feel like a sales rep for them...


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

hahaha Sales rep lol


Tarwin,can't as yet see any contact numbers in the States (i'm assuming your there) but, this is one in the UK that i ring.
They would tell you where to get it...........0161-351-4700

That's if no one can find somewhere in the States


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

goldie said:


> Tirwin,I.m not thinking at all that the Terminate killed any of your fish, just feel it's too strong now as they are weak(ish)
> Are you sure they weren't flicking at all. The googled pic i put up, does it look like that. Are they smooth lumps or do they have like stringy/fluffy stuff on them at all
> I can't load up pics myself but. are you able to put a pic on here or get someone to do it for you. That could help a lot to actually see it


No it doesnt look like that at all. It is on a regular goldie..and there are 3 hill looking lumps. Almost like an ulcer. It is under the scales. With whiteheads on it like a pimple


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Are you able to post a pic Tarwin? Before you put anymore meds in i would do a big water change as Coral Bandit said and even put some carbon in the filter to clean the water up ready for the next med


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

goldie said:


> Are you able to post a pic Tarwin? Before you put anymore meds in i would do a big water change as Coral Bandit said and even put some carbon in the filter to clean the water up ready for the next med


Good point. I too would like to see this fish. I was stating the ParaGuard because it will literally kill anything unwanted in the tank(To a certain degree!!) Haha. But yeah. Shoot us a picture!


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

I went ahead and gave him a salt bath. During the time he was in there I noticed alot of white mucous type substance which looked like it was being expelled from his mouth? Is this normal? He is still breathing heavy but he is now swimming all over the tank?


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

The fish with the bumps is swimming around fine..its my black oranda who is sitting on the bottom. I will get a pic in a bit and post it.


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

salt as I understand works as an irritant that bothers the skin and therfore encourages skin to form a thicker natural slime coat.Comming from mouth I don't know?Many parasites are internal,and possibly the salt has affected something internally?


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

How do I upload pics here?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I've never heard of mucous coming from the mouth,perhaps it was from the gills?
Oh i thought it was the one with bumps that was on the bottom Tarwin but if the salt bath has got the real sick fish up and swimming that 'maybe' a good sign.& has it's breathing improved ?Yes please try and post a pic


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

He is still gasping but he is swimming around now.  Should I do a salt bath daily until he is better like it said online? I used 1 tsp for 1 gallon of water?


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

ok here is max who is sick

[url=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15307&ppuser=27040][/URL]


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

And George with the mysterious lumps. He has a total of 3. You can see the biggest of the three on his side....the other 2 are much smaller and behind it. They were all huge but have gone down. I am told possible parasite?

[url=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15306&limit=recent][/URL]


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

I zoomed right in on that Tarwin but can't really see it properly. You say that's the one acting normally apart from the bump? If it's not red & the fish isan't bothered by it to be honest i would try not to worry about it. I don't know any Parasite that would cause a big lump like that but perhaps someone else will .
Is it your Blackmoor that your more worried about, have you got a pic of him?


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

Its actually my Black Oranda. I posted a pic of him sitting on the bottom. He honestly seems to be a bit more alert. Still gasping a little but he seems more relaxed and not sitting on the bottom.


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

My best guess would be internal parasites. The salt is indeed an irritant but won't serve as a true fixall. I would go get something as soon as possible and for aquatic parasites. At this point, Tetra brand would be better than nothing


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

I already used the Terminate for 3 days in a row as directed. That should have killed most of them including ich. I then put in the Prazi yesterday but put my charcoal filters back in today. FYI....I did a water change after each Prazi of at least 25 to 50%. And before I added the Prazi I did a change as well. Should I wait a day and do another Prazi since I added the carbon filters?


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh i only saw the orange Oranda Tarwin. I missed the Blackmoor.I've no idea what's going on with him but i don't think that pond treatment covered internal parasites. I would'nt put that in again IMP.You've got loads of air going in have you?I hope he makes it,he's real cute.


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

goldie said:


> Oh i only saw the orange Oranda Tarwin. I missed the Blackmoor.I've no idea what's going on with him but i don't think that pond treatment covered internal parasites. I would'nt put that in again IMP.You've got loads of air going in have you?I hope he makes it,he's real cute.


Yes I have to filters with the bio wheel and I added some extra sponges to hold bacteria....flow if on high...and I have 2 18 inch airstones running the length of the aquarium.


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Well that's plenty Tarwin. Like they said i would have a go & treat tomorrow for internal,not the stuff you've got but what was posted. Off now & good luck. I really hope he gets well. Let us know will you.


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

Max passed on tonight.  He went on his side in the tank. I removed him from the tank and put him in a bowl with some water and salt hoping to help him. Within 5 minutes he passed. In the bowl again though was the same white, hairy mucousy substance? Any idea what this is? Now I need to take care of the rest of the fish. I am gonna order the Seachum stuff.  I am so sad. The reason I bought this aquarium was because of this fish. Saw him in the store and went out and bought a 75 gallon setup. Got it all cycled and went back to the store a month later and he was still there. :*(


----------



## Brian757 (Sep 24, 2012)

Im am so sorry for your loss Tirwin! I know what its like to lose the centerpiece fish. It hurts so bad to see them lifeless. Just focus on helping the others survive. Try not to do anything drastic to their living arrangements. I wish you lived in my area, hell, i would go buy you a bottle and bring it to your house! It hurts me when hobbyists lose their fish friends. Hes in a bigger aquarium now 

Also, the white fluffy stuff your mentioning, I feel like its some sort of fungus. The Seachem can do wonders for your tank. I wish it were readily available to you. Just try and find SOME medicine that covers fugus/bacteria and parasites; API or Tetra.

Although, in terms of the whole "whiteheads" thing, it sounds like worms. They go intestinal and then protrude through the skin. Although, even Paraguard fights off internal worms and parasites. 
Read this by InkMkr: Experiences of Treatment
Good luck! Keep me updated!!


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

tirwin88 said:


> Max passed on tonight.  He went on his side in the tank. I removed him from the tank and put him in a bowl with some water and salt hoping to help him. Within 5 minutes he passed. In the bowl again though was the same white, hairy mucousy substance? Any idea what this is? Now I need to take care of the rest of the fish. I am gonna order the Seachum stuff.  I am so sad. The reason I bought this aquarium was because of this fish. Saw him in the store and went out and bought a 75 gallon setup. Got it all cycled and went back to the store a month later and he was still there. :*(


Tarwin i'm so sorry about Max but,try and remember how hard you tried ,you just could'nt have tried harder,also it was you that got him out of a store tank to really enjoy himself in your big tank.I really am sorry;(


----------



## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

here is link to some deseases and treatments.Of paticular interest to you may be the symptom ;Nodular white swellings on fins and body as it is claimed non harmful and no real cure;Fish Disease and Treatment


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

That's a really good link Coral Bandit & reading under the nodular swellings sounds very like Tirwins fish symtoms. I see they usually just drop away and there nothing to worry about.
Iv'e kept that myself, lots of info on there


----------



## webmaster (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello,
I also have one 5 gallon water fish tank at my place. But i remove water after every one week. i have only 3 fishes one butter fish and 2 gold fish. So all of them are healthy. I add super ICK cure in water...


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

ummmmmmmm


----------



## tirwin88 (Oct 13, 2012)

I took the fish with ulcers to a place local to here. He suggested medi koi. I treated them with medikoi and they are all doing well.  miss my max and hope too find another like him


----------



## goldie (Aug 4, 2012)

Hey Tirwin. great to hear from you. If he was mine I would miss him too, such a cutie.
That's real good news that your other fish are healthy again.You went all out in caring for your fish. I really admire you for that.


----------

