# a few newbie questions



## gowgowuk (Dec 5, 2010)

Hello, 
First 'real" post on this forum. I recently inherited a 152L (~40G) tank with a few plants and fish. I restarted using a layer of Tetra Plant Complete Substrate (2cm), a layer of gravel and a few more plants. 

I kept the existing plants, part of water, filter, etc, so, the cycling finished fairly quickly. My parameters are :
pH: 7.5
kH:~7
gH:~9
Ammonia and nitrites:0
Nitrates: 5-10ppm
Plant population: you can get an idea from the picture
Fish population: 2 dwarf gouramis, 2 minnows, 10 zebrafish
I changed about 10% of the water every week.
Because I wanted a well planted aquarium, I decided that the existing single 40W bulb would not be enough, and replaced the light unit with a Hagen Glo T5 2x54W, switching from 1WPG to 2.7WPG.
Reading now about planted aquarium and CO2, I realize that I very probably need some CO2 feed.

Now, my questions: 

1. I used the pH/kH/CO2 tables to determine the amount of dissolved CO2 in my water, but I find that in order to do that, you need a very precise kH and even more accurate pH measurements. My liquid test, I think, would allow me to determine a pH within +/- 0.5, but in term of CO2, if I use pH 7.0 or 7.5, it would translate in the table into something like 5ppm (not enough) to 25ppm (ok). So, are there any way to measure more precisely the CO2 content? I took a sample of my water at work where I did a parallel liquid test and electronic pH-meter measurement: visually, I would have said 7.5 but the measurement was 7.85. Again, quite a difference in term of CO2, and the fact that the water was kept in my bag for half a day probably screwed up the results anyway...

2. in terms of lighting: I'm wondering if without CO2, I am not too high? I started to see algae growth everywhere, which is a sign I guess. I'm leaving on holiday for the next 10 days, and I already decided to reduce the light cycle from 10 hours to 9 hours, and was wondering if it's worth actually blocking part of the light (10-20% of the surface) with some sort of cardboard, in order to limit it until I get a CO2 system in place?

3. about CO2, I guess for this size of tank, a pressurized system would be a lot more efficient than a yeast system, right?

Many thanks for any advice and help!


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

1) Your best bet to measure CO2 is by way of a Drop Checker.
2) I wouldn't use carboard to cover the tank due to moisture. A 10hr photo period is a good place to be. Your CO2 in the tank as it sits now is minimal to even have to worry about.
3) If you do want to add CO2, I would advise going pressurized on this tank. DIY is possible, but you would have to use several bottles.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

The ph in water and the amount of CO2 it can hold are directly related. At a high ph (>7.5) a lot of the CO2 is in the form of HCO3~ and CO3~~ ions. Both of these ions readily change back to CO2 when the ph lowers. At a low ph (< 6.5) much of the CO2 is in the form of dissolved CO2 gas.
CO2 + H20 <=> H2CO3 <=> H~ + HCO3~ <=> 2H+ + CO3~~
Gas Carbonic Acid Bicarbonate Carbonate


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Is that a 40g breeder tank? Love that tank...been eyeballing one at my local store that I may get soon.

Did you test your ph with a low or high test kit? I have a 75 gal with a 260W CFL Aqualight sitting on top of it and it doesn't have CO2. It's only on about 5-6hrs a day though and I have very little algae problems. I just dose with Excel if needed.

I have a CO2 system sitting on my floor that isn't installed. I know that the tank would be better with pressurized CO2 but what really has stopped me has been the plants that are in there. They do not require CO2 and will even grow in low light. So I tell myself that once I start getting plants that are CO2 hungry, I'll get the system on there. Bt until then, all my fish appear happy and the easy plants I have thrive. From the looks of what you have, your plants may not require much special either...just a thought. Here's a pic:
<a href=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6093><img src=http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=6093&size=1 border=0></a>


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## gowgowuk (Dec 5, 2010)

James0816 said:


> 1) Your best bet to measure CO2 is by way of a Drop Checker.


Thanks. As I understand the use of a drop checker, it is just a "too low/just right/too much CO2" information, so, I guess in my case it would be blue and I wouldn't have a more precise measurement. Or is it possible to buy/make different kH solution to measure different CO2 levels?

About cardboard: yes, sorry, I should have said that there is a plastic "window" between the light unit and the water (this in itself is probably stopping part of the light anyway)


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## gowgowuk (Dec 5, 2010)

jrman83 said:


> Is that a 40g breeder tank? Love that tank...been eyeballing one at my local store that I may get soon.
> 
> Did you test your ph with a low or high test kit? I have a 75 gal with a 260W CFL Aqualight sitting on top of it and it doesn't have CO2. It's only on about 5-6hrs a day though and I have very little algae problems. I just dose with Excel if needed


Forget my ignorance but I'm not sure what a breeder tank is (although I could guess!). All I know is that the dimensions are a bit unusual: in 122cmx33cmx38cm or 48"x13"x15"

My pH test is supposed to cover a wide spectrum (4.5 to 9).

5-6hrs per day. interesting! I thought that a planted aquarium neede at least 10 hours (hence my question about reducing the period). 

Thanks for the reply.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

gowgowuk said:


> Forget my ignorance but I'm not sure what a breeder tank is (although I could guess!). All I know is that the dimensions are a bit unusual: in 122cmx33cmx38cm or 48"x13"x15"
> 
> My pH test is supposed to cover a wide spectrum (4.5 to 9).
> 
> ...


About 8hrs is where I started and I started getting algae, so I reduced it. Finally ended up where I am at. With the plants I have I could go 2hrs a day and they would still do just fine. Like I said, they are easy low-light plants. Only thing in there is Wisteria, java moss, unknown anubias, and something else I am not sure of. I inherited most of them. I actually believe that may algae problems were light and too much fertlization. Now that I know what I'm doing (more than I did when I started anyway) with the ferts I could probably go back up in my lighting period, but everything is doing well like it is.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I've found to reduce light a piece of window screening works great for tanks. Also, on the CO2 - pressurized is definitely advisable, though the cost might prove inhibitive. Drop checkers are ideal, but there is really no way to measure exact CO2 concentrations beyond that. Ask yourself this - why are you really needing to know the exact concentration? It takes a TON of CO2 to asphyxiate fish, and no CO2 just means your plants stop growing. In between, I would say as long as you're adding some amount of CO2 to the tank then you're doing all you can.

Here's a shopping list of CO2 parts you'll need:
CO2 bottle
High pressure regulator
Solenoid valve
Needle valve and/or a low pressure regulator
Check valve
Bubble counter (to monitor the level of CO2 added to your tank, in bubbles per second BPS)
Drop checker
Reactor (some sort of method to diffuse CO2 into your tank, either ceramic plate, or other method)
CO2 tubing (not the same as air tubing)

A cheap easy way to do pressurized CO2 using paintball parts is here:

Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup

Parts for a true-to-form CO2 system can be found here, from my favorite retailer:

The Best Aquarium Regulator & CO2 Parts

Hope this helps!


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

gowgowuk said:


> Forget my ignorance but I'm not sure what a breeder tank is (although I could guess!). All I know is that the dimensions are a bit unusual: in 122cmx33cmx38cm or 48"x13"x15"


breeder tank is usually just a longer shallow version of that size tank

my current setup is a 30 gallon breeder tank. same height and depth as yours, just 12" shorter in the length

I like the breeder tanks just because they're so shallow and there's more ground area















you tank looks great by the way!


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

I think your tank looks great.

FWIW 0 ammonia/nitrites and some nitrates is not a sign on a planted tank the cycle is complete. The plants consume ammonia directly but nitrates can bump up because the plants use the ammonia for nitrogen. As more and more bacteria consume ammonia then the plants are forced to start consuming nitrates so nitrates drop down. That final drop is the sign the nitrogen bacteria cycle is fully active.

PH in planted tanks will jump up as more and more co2 is consumed by the plants.



That said awesome tank.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> I think your tank looks great.
> 
> FWIW 0 ammonia/nitrites and some nitrates is not a sign on a planted tank the cycle is complete. The plants consume ammonia directly but nitrates can bump up because the plants use the ammonia for nitrogen. As more and more bacteria consume ammonia then the plants are forced to start consuming nitrates so nitrates drop down. That final drop is the sign the nitrogen bacteria cycle is fully active.
> 
> ...


Is this tank heavily planted enough to act like that?

I like the tank too.

It does seem like quite a lot of light without CO2, but it could be okay. It partly depends on how fussy you are. I like a bit of algae as long as it's not out of control, I think It's just natural and my nerite snails are in heaven . Lots of people faint at the sight of algae in their tank though, if you want that crystal clear, sterile look then CO2 sounds like a good idea, and you will have more choice in plants. Personally I'd just add a few floating plants and nerite snails and cut to 8hrs of light and I'm sure I'd be happy with it.


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## gowgowuk (Dec 5, 2010)

Thank you all for the comments and ideas!
I think I'll reduce the photo-period a bit during the 10 days I'm going away and see the results when I get back. (leaving tomorrow, finger crossed everything will be ok!).
Eventually, I'd like more plants to have a "jungle-feel", so, might have to go the CO2 route...


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

snail said:


> Is this tank heavily planted enough to act like that?
> 
> 
> ...
> ...


IMHO yep.*old dude


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## mfgann (Oct 21, 2010)

gowgowuk said:


> Thank you all for the comments and ideas!
> I think I'll reduce the photo-period a bit during the 10 days I'm going away and see the results when I get back. (leaving tomorrow, finger crossed everything will be ok!).
> Eventually, I'd like more plants to have a "jungle-feel", so, might have to go the CO2 route...


I think you'll find that it will grow in pretty well over time. The CO2 route will make it grow faster, but you really have to have fertilizers as well as CO2, and monitor things closely or you'll wind up growing algae (at least, thats my understanding). I've been impressed with how well things grew in over a few months in my 10G, and it had nothing but light. 

I like your tank now, and I think it will grow in to be really beautiful. I need to get better at landscaping my tanks


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

beaslbob said:


> IMHO yep.*old dude


 Thanks, I would have thought it would take more plants, interesting to know.

My tanks always look like jungles and I don't use CO2, it takes a bit longer and some plants just don't do well for me but if you are willing to stick to what works it should be possible without CO2. This is a really interesting thread about low tech tanks:
Low Tech Tank Show-and-Tell


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