# Need some advice!



## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

Hello everyone! I am new to the forum and just want to say hi to everyone!! I do have a question. I am currently in the last phases of fish less cycling my aquarium with pure ammonia (yay!!) and im thinking about what im going to do for stock. I have a 20 gallon long aquarium, running a aquaclear 30 filter, and a whisper 40. how many inches of fish should I be shooting for here? im going for a tropical community, and I am definatly getting a school of neon tetras. I just dont know what else to put in there with them. Any advice would be very appreciated!!! Thanks!


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just depends on how big the group of Neons is. Neons don't really school, but in a 20g every fish in there will look like it is schooling. Whatever you do don't try to stock this tank wall-to-wall....20g tanks can crash very easily of they are heavily stocked. Planting the tank may make it a more stable environment.

Forget inches per gallon....it maybe could be used at a 70% starting point in respct to "fully" stocking the tank. I would only stock to about 75% capacity. It is easier and less stressful to have a tank with a few less fish than having it full and having one die every time you turn around or full of disease.


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## Tiari (Apr 25, 2012)

I have a 20 gallon community tank, and though I can't tell you what to have, I can tell you what I've got so you can see how interesting you can make your tank.

Five Harlequin rasbora, four male fancy guppies, 2 otto-cats, 2 mystery snails and 1 african dwarf frog.

Neon's and Harlequins would go nicely together.


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

thank you very much for the advice! im thinking now a school of cardinal tetras (prob 10) a dwarf powder blue gourami, and some platys.


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

OKay so I have an update guys and a problem... I am not about a month and 2 days into my fishless cycle. My 20 gallon tank seems to be stalled out. a couple weeks ago I noticed a huge ph crash during my nitrite spike. at the time I had 4ppm ammo, off the charts nitrite (royale purple) and off the charts nitrate readings (blood red). I decided to do water changes to restore the buffers and get my nitrites into readable areas on my testing kit. this took 4 very large water changes. by the end I had a lavander nitrite reading (1ppm), good ph, and about 3ppm ammo. I have not added any ammo since because it hasnt gone down!!!! Its been almost a week and a half and my nitrites are spiked again, my ammo has risen even though I havnt added any, and I have a no nitrates reading. I do have one live plant in the tank. I need to know what to do here guys, my wife is getting impatient and wants to take over. I am about to give up, do a 100% water change and get some danios to cycle it. 

specifics:
I did use water conditioner with the water changes (dechlorinator)
temp: 86 degrees
ammo type: pure liquid ammo from hardware store
tank: 20 gallon long
filters: aquaclear 30 (with biomax media) and whisper 40 power filter
seeded: no


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

tested again this morning( day 32), 4-5 ppm ammo, nitrites 5 or above, nitrates 5. Ive read that high nitrites can cause a false nitrate reading. please help me. thanks in advance


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

What kind of test kit are you using? 

At this point, I'd suggest, a) investing in a tube kit such as API's Freshwater Master Kit (if you don't have one already), b) doing a large (50+%) water change, c) beginning a regimen with a stabilizing product such as Stability by SeaChem that you can double dose on the first day and continue for seven more days, and d) adding Stress ZYME (live beneficial bacteria) daily during that week to start combating your ammo and nitrites. After a week, if your readings are stable, I would add two or three hardy fish, like Tetras or Danios, then go from there. It's very hard to get a tank going if you're adding ammo, etc with just a dechlorinator, and not supplying any additional beneficial bacteria. Extra aeration may help in this case as well if you are not already employing the use of airstones, as bad bacteria in the aquarium is usually anaerobic.


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## Tomorrowland (Mar 9, 2012)

Oh and obviously, continue using your water conditioner with every pwc. I'd also suggest adding some live plants to help with the cycle. Once your levels have balanced out (i.e., 0 ammo, 0 nitrites, __ nitrates [less than 20ppm]), your tank should be suffuciently cycled, and at a good level to start adding more fish.


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

The cycle is a glitch, and I see no reason to sacrifice danios if you don't want them. I would give up the needless chemistry experiment of the fishless cycle, and start an aquarium. But that may just be me.
I would stay with 25% water changes every week, and go with very few fish. Cardinals might not be your best choice until the tank is stable, but if your water is of medium to high hardness, platys would be a good choice since you plan for them anyway. Watch and test if you will, and in 3 weeks or so, start scouting for your other fish and adding them gradually. 
Remember that cardinals come from South American water of almost no measurable mineral content and a Ph of below 6, while platys originate in North American (Mexico and Belize) limestone zones with high mineral content and a pH of 7.8 or higher. The cardinals will adapt to harder water (although their colours may lose a little of their zing) but the platys have a harder time in soft water. If you are on the same water system as your pet shop, that'll answer a lot of questions about what does well locally - look at what they stock.


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

UPDATE:
Well, I am still going at it with the fishless cycle. My wife and I were hoping to be getting fish on sunday, but now I am not so sure. Tested a couple days ago and my nitrites suddenly disapeared. Finally!! Buuut the ammonia stayed and actually rose >4ppm. Couldnt think of why it was doing that, (i havnt added ammo in a week) so I did a 50% water change yesterday to lower the ammo a bit. I found a rotting, floating plant bulb that I had forgot about hiding by the filter. Worst thing I have ever smelled in my life. Pretty sure that was what was raising my ammo. Got the ammo to 2 ppm with the water change yesterday, and I retested today withe my API liquid testing kit. 2ppm ammo, 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. Its looking a lot like it it did the day I started, and I am 5 weeks in.

Thank you for your advice everyone.


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

I tested again today, still 2ppm ammo 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. How in the world did I go though the nitrite spike, and still have ammonia not processing? I have no idea whats going on with my tank guys. When I woke up and saw the nitrite gone I was so excited because I thought I was almost done. But my tank is not processing ammonia. Help


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## ro laren (May 3, 2012)

I read sometimes stalled cycles can be attributed to phosphate deficiency. The BB need phosphates to thrive. Apparently phosphates along with necessary trace minerals can be introduced by adding a tiny amount (like one or two grains of rice) of fish food, pulverized. Perhaps that will help?


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

Just to update with today's liquid testing and I have not added ammo in over a week and a half: Ammo:2ppm, nitrites:0ppm, nitrates: 5ppm, ph: 7.0. I gotta tell you guys, I love the idea of the fishless cycle but its really coming along much harder than I thought. My nitrite spike came and went, I still have ammonia in the tank, and here I am 5 weeks in and I still have no idea when im going to be able to have my new aquatic pets. Its discouraging. What do you all think about lowering the temp of the heater, doing a 100% water change, and getting my school of neon tetras later in the week? Im looking to get about 10 of them in my 20 gallon tank


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Lower the temp, do the water change and see how it looks.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

What a ride indeed!

Couple thoughts. 

NitrAte Test. You are aware, the 2nd bottle MUST be shaken vigoriously for 30 seconds, otherwise you will get an incorrect reading.

Curious, you are not cleaning out the tank/filter while cycling are you?

Can you give a run down of your tank?

Ammo:2ppm, nitrites:0ppm, nitrates: 5ppm is actually a good reading. Need to determine the source of ammo though. Any more rotting plants in the tank? What is the ammo of your tap water? Some substrate can leech ammo. What are you putting into the tank?


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

FF- I shook the heck out of that nitrate bottle , I have not touched the filters or media since the cycle began 5 weeks ago. pretty sure i got all of the rotting bulbs out of the tank, as the ammo has not risen. 

rundown:
20 gallon long tank
aquaclear 30
tetra whisper 40
regular blue colored gravel substrate
fake plants and decorations
one large live plant i grew from a dry bulb (apogen something.. i cant remember the name)
86 degrees
used pure liquid ammonia for fishless cycle, NO SEED
I just cant wait for this to be done. Ive been patient so I want to just do a large water change and see how it goes since I did have a nitrite spike that disappeared. But I dont want to hurt my fishies.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Do at least a 50% water change. Test 1 day later. If ammonia is still there I would not put fish in there.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

one thing you have to learn with fish keeping is patients! Id do as jrman said and do a 50% change and test and keep doing that till you have the correct reading. Ive never done a fishless cycle ( would rather do it naturally with used media and fish) but it seems a lot of beginners have problems with it!

theres a thread on here about the fishless cycle. maybe have a read of that and see if you went wrong anywhere


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## ChessieSFR (Dec 30, 2011)

I think part of the problem was that your concentrations were "blowing out" the cycle. At the really icky point, they were really high, so high that the bacteria would have a hard time getting established, actually.

Make sure that your filter isn't changed. Take care to shake that nitrate test.

Honestly, I couldn't do the fishless cycle. After three months, it just wouldn't kick in until I got a fish. I bought one platy. Everything cycled within two weeks. If you do stock a couple of fish, go for the hardiest species you plan to put in the tank, like a platy, and only put one in. 

Then keep testing and doing small water changes until everything evens out.


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## jdriscoll190 (May 6, 2012)

Ok here another update:

Nothing in my tank has changed since my last post. Ammonia hasnt dropped and now my one little plant I grew is dying. The fishless cycle is a wonderful idea but it is far from practical until one set way of doing it is established, proven to work 100% of the time and is something that everyone agrees upon. I am almost 7 weeks in and no where close to a cycled tank. As far as I can tell, I did everything the way I was supposed to, and I spent hours upon hours researching, weeks before I started. As I speak I am draining the tank completely. I am going to refill it, dechlorinate with stress coat, and let the tank stabilize and come to temperature. Tomorrow I am going to get a fish or two to cycle my tank. Its a toss up between platy and danio. I like them both very much. How many should I get? I know fish get lonely if they're alone. I was thinking about getting two platys to start. Its a 20 galolon long tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

How did you do it exactly? I didn't have any problem when I did mine and was done in just under 4wks.


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## zero (Mar 27, 2012)

I put 3 danios in my tank which I think converts to 30gal long n there still alive....theve even syrvived being in a tank with an oscar for weeks! So if u want them in ur tank get some to cyclel


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