# angel breeding



## tj4288 (Aug 18, 2008)

hi everyone, i currently have a couple tanks and many differant fish, but i want to move my angels and try to breed them. right now they are in a community tank. i have 2 veil koi angels and 2 white angels. 
what fish if any can i keep with my angles while in the breeding tank? is a pleco ok? corydoras? snails?? id like to have some kind of "cleanup crew" with the angels. 
i am looking to move them from a 40 gallon long community to a 55 gallon tall. possibly with a few corydoras a pleco and some mystery snails.


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

The cory and pleco are a BAD idea. They will eat the angel eggs, but I have not ever had snails in with the angels. Have you made any research at all about breeding angels? As in WQ etc... If not I know a few sites that will help you out.


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## djrichie (May 15, 2008)

You should setup a breeding tank..... without any other fish init to assure the eggs don't get eatin


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## tj4288 (Aug 18, 2008)

ok thank you. yes i have done some reading on them and still am. so NOT a good idea to keep cories or plecos? 
what about filtration should i switch to one of those sponge filter things to not suck up the babies? and as for subrate? is my regular small/med gravel ok?


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## aconrad (Apr 30, 2008)

I dont use any gravel. This is because when the eggs fall off the parents will pick them back up and when they hit the gravel the eggs die. I use a regular filter until I get the eggs and then i remove the parents and go to a sponge filter. I remove the parents because in my past they eat the eggs, they havent learned not to yet. I would say no other fish in the tank at all.


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## Penycat (Aug 20, 2008)

Hey yo I raise angels big time now...well as big time as tanks in the house will allow *dreams of fish room* anyway, what's said about, yes yes and yes. Bare bottom, no other fish OR snails. You'll actually see world racing speeds out of snails if they're in a tank with eggs...fastest thing I ever saw! that goes for wigglers too. once the fry are free swimming, then I put the snails in, but before that, nope, not good bedfellows.

I've got to get my sons to school, but when I get back I'll give you the low down on how I do things that have worked great so far (my first spawn won me 3rd place at the last ACA convention) just had to toss that in as I'm still jumping up and down


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## komal (Aug 27, 2008)

Hello,
I am very new in this breeding thing so if you could take some pictures of breeding then that will be very nice to see. The journey from eggs to babies.
What you say?


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## Penycat (Aug 20, 2008)

welp, your wish is my command already got them up on my website...feel free - Penycat's Freshwater Angelfish 

Generally when I have a set pair, I'll put them in a 20 by themselves with no other fish or snails or anything in there. Now the way I set up their tanks depends on if I pull their eggs or let them parent raise. I've only one pair right now that'll parent raise (and this last spawn is their first time doing so, all other times I've had to pull) If you've got a pair that'll raise their fry, then put a rear/top flow filter that you can turn off and a sponge filter that's always on. In a tank where you pull the eggs, just a regular filter is fine. Then I put in either a piece of slate or 3 inch x 10 inch tile or a sword plant, can be real or fake. bare bottomed and generally I'll also put in a clump of java moss. The moss I'll tie to a wine cork and let float (more on this later)

Now you've got your tank set for your pair. The only way to tell of course if yours will parent raise is to leave them with the eggs. Now what I'll do with a new pair is their first spawn I'll pull no matter what. then at least I've got some of their babies. Then the next time they spawn (ever 14 days or so with good food and clean water), I'll leave the eggs. 90% of the time they will eat them, but keep letting them try as you raise that first batch and eventually they should get it. I tell you there's nothing like the sight of a pair of angels with a cloud of tiny babies around their heads! If you are leaving the eggs, there's nothing for you to do but keep the parents well fed. they'll clean up the white eggs and keep the eggs from fungusing. but now is a good time to turn off the filter, just keep the sponge on.

K in my next message (to give you a break in reading) I'll explain my hatching and grow out tanks


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## Penycat (Aug 20, 2008)

Okay! hatching tanks!

I'll take a 5g or 10g and put in a seeded sponge filter and a clump of java moss..either floating with the wine cork or just let loose on the bottom. (there is a reason for the moss...lol) Then of course a heater (try to keep right around 80-82 if you can) Now if it's a 10g, the babies can stay a tiny bit longer in there, so I'll also add a rear filter with a sponge over the intake tube. make it so no big particles can get into that tube, but I don't leave mine on...more on that too.

Okay, noec your parents have laid their eggs and they are totally done, then I take a pitcher or very large cup and put whatever the eggs were laid on into that cup (never take out of water! eggs cannot be put to air for even a second) now warning, parents will not like you in their tank with the eggs. they will like even less you taking the eggs out. be prepared for many attacks on your hand. I have one male that actually hurts me a tiny bit (scares the heck out of me each time too!) when he attacks me, so for him I grab a net and keep him on one side of the tank while I'm getting the eggs. 

once you have the eggs out, put them in the prepared hatching tank again not letting them touch air. I put them in at an angle just like it was in the parents tank. if it's a leaf, I let it float (plastic ones work great for this). put an air bubbler on low (kink the tube if need be) so bubble go within an inch or so of the eggs, but not right on them. Then you wait.

no worries, some of the eggs will turn white and get a fuzzy grossness to them. I don't use any chems in my hatching tanks and so far haven't had any problems not doing so.

once the eggs hatch (3-4 days) you'll see the egg with a tail and tiny movements. wait a few more days till they are a bit more formed. Then I take a medicine dropper (like the kind you can get in infant meds...but clean of course) and I suck the wigglers off the slate/leaf/floor if they fell and squirt them into the javamoss. Try to get as little of the white eggs as you can, jsut the babies. This takes time but is worth it in the end. once all the babies are hanging in the moss, then I take out the slate, clean it good and put it back in the parent's tank. Then I take an air tube and suction into a clean bucket any grossness that's on the floor of the tank. (their first water change) make sure to take a long good look into the bottom of that bucket and med dropper any fry you may have sucked up (I do nearly all the time) squirt them back into the javamoss.

in about 7 days or so (sometimes not that long, depends on heat) they will go free swimming. now there's a number of ways that you can do feeding. 99% of breeders have baby brine shrimp hatched and ready to feed. do so! I personally haven't done this as I've got too many and too few bbs. so I've changed to microworms/decaps bbs (you can get on ebay) and a fry powder that I got from Angelfish an awesome site! I feed these foods to all my fry, no matter what kind of fish they are and so far, it's worked great! Just watch it with the micros as they sink to the bottom and then the fry will want to always be on the bottom which is not good (learned this the hard way) their vents will go all weird or not be there at all if they are on the bottom to much. This is also the time that I put in snails or little tiny catfish (like th habrosus) or shrimp. These will keep the bottom clean and keep the fry up off the bottom. feed in bits several times a day and try to do water changes at least once every other day if not every day.

Now another lesson I learned the hard way... right when the babies are starting to show their angel fins and not look like every other fry in the book, you need to move them out of the 5 or 10g. generally at about a month old. this is when it's good to have a grow out tank anything bigger than a 30 will do depending on how many fry you've got. I use 30s and 55s. once they have moved into this tank I also add to their feedings froz daphnia and cyclops...sit back and watch the frenzy feeding!!! 

once they are of dime size, it's good to add froz bloodworm and stuff and things.

far as I can think, that's a good start for you Good luck and provide many pictures of your journey!!!


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## komal (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks, Sure I will do that


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## komal (Aug 27, 2008)

How you maintain water quality level?


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## Penycat (Aug 20, 2008)

well there I'm lucky as I've got well water that's exactly the ph and all that the angels like. So there I can't be of much help as I just suck the water right out the window to the plants below (unless a fry tank of course) and then I haul the hose back in and re fill the tanks. 

I do use a bit of a water conditioner that I got to get rid of any metal traces as the guy who built this house used copper pipes, but that's it for chems


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## komal (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks,
I will tell you what happens with my angel.


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## mskitty (Jan 11, 2008)

please be aware that angles will eat their eggs and their fry. so you will need to either remove as soon as they are laid or open a breeding tank. you will still need to remove the eggs from the parents or it will be caviar for lunch. i had a beautiful amount of eggs from my angels and the next morning they were gone.


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## Penycat (Aug 20, 2008)

Not all the time. most angels when young haven't had the parenting to know/remember how to parent raise, but if you give them time, they'll figure it out. yes you'll lose spawns this way, but after a few times, they'll let it go farther and farther til you've got a good set of parent raising pairs. I've done this with my own and have an awesome set now...actually they've got a few juvies (i pulled a bunch of them once they were about a week into free swimming) and have just laid eggs that have hatched and are wigglers...so there are both in there and being taken care of wonderfully! probably better than I can!

So yes, your parents in the beginning may eat the fry, but give them time, it's worth it to see the cloud of free swimming babies hanging out by Mom and Dad


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