# torn up damsel scarred mandarin, gray spots on puffer, missing cleaner shrimp, etc.



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

a few things have been going on with my dad's 125 gal saltwater tank:
1. we have 2 blue devil damsels-a big one and a little one-the big one chases the little one around, but she is the one who looks torn up! i have seen our bt humbug chase her around, but never to a really aggressive state. whats going on?
2.our blue mandarin has a mysterious scar on his left gill.we don't know who did it( it is steadily healing)
3. our dog-faced puffer has a bunch of grayish spots on his stomach.
4.our cleaner shrimp is missing
5.our banded shark has been flashing and swimming upside down.
please help me with these problems!


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

We need water parameters (actuall numbers), has anything new been added to the tank??


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

we got an ocellaris after i started the thread. we believe our ammonia might be a bit overrange, and the sg might be a little underrange. the ph is 8.6.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

anyone around to help?


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Sorry but the best way for us to help you is for you to post the numbers of all your tests because without them it would just be guess at best.


----------



## saltydad (Jun 27, 2008)

Need to know what the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are. pH and SG too. The damsel aggressiveness doesn't sound unusual to me; these are aggressive fish, especially the humbug and blues. Don't add any new fish until you solve the problem you have now. Also, if you have access to a digital camera pictures of the tank and fish would be a great help They can be posted here easily.


----------



## Hockeyref (Nov 17, 2008)

Yep.......Our damsel is a bully too:angler_fish:. We have thought about taking him back to LFS but he's way too fast to catch.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

this is our puffer. notice the spots.


----------



## reefcrazy (Nov 10, 2008)

do you have a full tank pic. ?


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

i'll put one in soon. you can check out our puffer in the gallery. i also noticed that the blue devil has some small white dots on her fins. the mandarins scares are healing, and we have come to the conclusion that the puffer probably ate the cleaner shrimp. we also believe that the spots are just spots that fail to change color with the puffer, who spends most of his time chocolate-brown but will fade to pure snow-white when he falls asleep. the ph is 8.6, sg is 1.022, and(don't ask me why-my dad does all maintenance for the tank) we don't do any other tests in a mechanical way. he just relies on the amount of bubbles on the top of the tank to get an ammonia reading, which has been slowly declining.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

here is that full tank pic:


----------



## maeistero (Dec 2, 2008)

hmm...

your live rock doesn't appear to be in the full tank shot. the live rock also isn't consistent in coralline algae growth, different colors and types. new hobbiest?

if your dad doesn't have any nitrate/nitrite specs on a weekly basis, then that's a big problem. your shark will swim upside down when it's stressed, i would say it's because of the squared off tank and all of the added rock. they like rounded tanks as they don't see too well. check it's snout for damage after awhile. the puffer will have belly damage if it's sleeping on the bottom, especially if you are using crushed coral instead of aragonite sand. I seriously doubt you have enough copepods to support your mandarin for long, expect him to go. the white spots on that other fish are probably parasites, i would get rid of it asap before they hit your entire tank if it hasn't already. 

your tank mates are all wrong. if your advice came from a lfs then you got ripped. find another honest one. or better yet, get a book.

good luck and stay away from damsels.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

we don't have any live rock. next time we go to BTJ's jungle or pets warehouse to get food i'll tell my dad to get a few pounds and the 2 test kits, and also a ph kit since he really doesn't have one-8.6 is his goal. the puffer sleeps snuggled up in the piece of bleached finger coral on the far left. we have crushed coral because my dad says that the shark might inhale the sand and die. there is a good layer of sand under the smooth-edged crushed coral that is mixed with with river-stone and rainbow rock. and NO my dad is not a beginning hobbyist. he started with a 10gal with some crabs at the age of 12. the mandarin has been in the tank for about 1 1/2 months. he seems to be eating algae off the clams and the algae wall(the left wall of the tank that we never scrub), and also snatches these little tiny things that float around the tank. we choose tank mates on our own will. we have tons of books on saltwater fish.


----------



## savageAJC (Dec 3, 2008)

maeistero said:


> hmm...
> 
> your live rock doesn't appear to be in the full tank shot. the live rock also isn't consistent in coralline algae growth, different colors and types. new hobbiest?
> 
> ...


+1


----------



## Glassjaw022887 (Nov 24, 2008)

I would have to agree with every single word that Maeistero has said. 

Well based on the picture of your tank your probably going to need more than just a few pounds of live rock. Here is some interesting info on how much live rock you'll want to use:
About.com: http://www.simplifiedreefkeeping.com/faq/11.htm 


As for your shrimp I know that your dog face ate him. I have had these fish before and they love shrimp, crabs, crustaceans etc...

I have never heard of any type of dragonette eating any type of algae, only copepods and bloodworms. They are one of the more demanding fish if you dont have enough live rock and food available to them. (I may be wrong though)

Your damsels.... well what more do I have to say. 

BTW why is the goal for your ph 8.6?


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

thanks. the site had good info. maybe the copepods seek shelter in the algae wall. IDK why my dad's ph goal is 8.6.


----------



## Glassjaw022887 (Nov 24, 2008)

Yeah I usually find young copepods on the glass especially in the corners where I cant get the algae with my magnet cleaner.


----------



## justin james (Nov 16, 2008)

Your cleaner shrimp is in your Banded Bamboo's stomach.  
Their main food source is inverts, especially shrimp!
I had a cleaner shrimp in with my banded bamboo's just to see if they would leave it alone or not since alot of big predators such as eels wont try to eat a cleaner shrimp but they did.

Your fish are or perhaps by now were suffering from Nitrates and other causes mentioned above by others such as Maistero's comments.


----------



## zona322 (Dec 5, 2008)

look I am new here but have had sharks for about 4 yeas on a off. They do not like lots of rock and for the sand do not have them in crushed coral or any sand that is cores, it will scrape the under side of them and they will get an infection. Witch can lead to death. As for the blue mandarin it will not eat anything but pods. You should not put a blue mandarin with a shark or a puffer one of them with eat him; your ph with a shark or any fish should not be any higher then 8.4. Do a water change and test your water again the levels are probably to high.

this is just my 2 cents 

zona


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

i have been telling my dad about the crushed coral scenario for a while. same thing with the ph. but i don't believe about the puffer or the shark eating the blue mandarin. a few weeks ago i saw a *HUGE* blue mandarin at btj's jungle(it must have been at least 5-6 inches!). if males only get to this size( the big one was a male), were still fine-ours is a male.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

to see if we could get the tank clean we added a cleaner wrasse after asking the lfs person what it eat-mysis shrimp, we took the fellow. he was cleaning the killies and the torn up damsel, who seemed to get annoyed. if we just keep one, will it ever make its own little cleaning station? here is a pic of the cleaner cleaning the torn up damsel(notice the damses torn- upness on the lower left):


----------



## seahorse (Dec 15, 2008)

hum


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

unforunatly, the mandarin died.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

both blue damsels and the humbug died


----------



## TRFK (Jan 6, 2009)

Well yeah DUH.If you have no live rock then there is no food for the manderian to eat.And if you and your dad are not doing regular tests on you chemicals then your shark is going to die to.Looking at the bubbles at the top of the tank is no way to test your ammonia.Maybe you guys should take all your fish back to the local fish store so they can find them proper homes with people that will take care of them and test the chemicals in there tanks properly so that innocent live stock does not killed.

You need to do alot more reading on the saltwater hobbie before you start with sharks alone other fish and invertebrates.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

i read alot. its my dad who owns the tank. he really does every thing his own way and won't tell anyone(not even me) about his secrets. he never does ANY water changes. he just tops off the evaporated water with tap water. he just looks at the tank and can tell u what the water paremeters are. everyone says corner filters are horrific but he says he can't keep the tank going without them. both blue damsels had ick, and an ocellaris clown just died. his scales had become oddly clouded making him look alot paler and sicklier than the other fish. we do have a single ounce of live rock. his snowflake morey eel has been alive for over 5 years now. its strange-all the hardy fish die while non-hardy fish live!


----------



## TRFK (Jan 6, 2009)

Well ok then.Just the way you are saying some of the things that you are talking about it makes you sound like you are misinformed about the hobby.We are all hear to help each other to provide good homes for the animals that we bring out of the ocean.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

since both of us love blue mandarins, but can't keep to much live rock with a shark, so i have convinced my dad to add an aquaclear refugium this weekend. what would the appropiate size aquaclear 4 a 125 gal be?


----------



## TRFK (Jan 6, 2009)

I would get the largest one they make.The aquaclear 110/500.And even with a shark you can still add a descent amount of live rock to the tank and still have enough room for the shark to swim.If i am correct your dad is only dealing with a banded cat shark right.


petlover516 said:


> since both of us love blue mandarins, but can't keep to much live rock with a shark, so i have convinced my dad to add an aquaclear refugium this weekend. what would the appropiate size aquaclear 4 a 125 gal be?


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I always felt that you should have at least 75lbs of LR for a Mandarin. Can you pile up some LR at each end of the tank and then also add a couple piles of rubble rock, by doing that you would have a better chance keeping a mandarin


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

ok. thanks archer that would be a good way to do it. i'll tell him. and aquaclear 500 would probably make a good refugium any how-hopefully we will be able to keep mandarions again


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

Please try to wait until the LR has been in your tank for about a month and you have the AC 110/500 running for that long also, to be honest this would be even better and I know it costs a little more but really would be better

AQUA-FUGE 2 HANG-ON REFUGIUM Large by CPR Aquatic - AquaCave


----------



## saltydad (Jun 27, 2008)

Hey Petlover, I also have a suggestion for you. Since you stated you like to read about the hobby, pick up a book on reef/marine aquariums. There are a number of good ones. Look for authors like Sprung, Paletta, Shimek, Nilsen, Debelius. Really get into the background, the nuts and bolts and theories of keeping reef tanks. We are terribly blessed to be able to have the oceans' creatures in our homes, but with that comes a responsibility and obligation to keep them alive and in the best condition possible. If you can't do that, you have no business keeping marine animals. I mean this in the most positive way; study, read and become the best reefkeeper you can. Good luck.


----------



## reefdaddy (Jan 6, 2009)

I think your dad needs to be here as much as you, He sounds like he is listening to someone that has no idea what they doing. A Moray and shark with Clowns, mandy and Damsels? Just dont sound right at all. No matter the size of tank. I never been believe in keeping shark in under 500 gallon tanks. I ran into many that had the had friend that knew everything syndrom. Please convince him to sign up here, We will help him with the problems.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

he has been in the hobby for 30 years. He does't even know how to work a computer(barely) . The morey eel has never eaten anything live in the tank. he has been trained to eat frozen silversides. Right now i'm really in freshwater and im doing a progect to see if watching the fish will relieve stress.


----------



## petlover516 (Nov 12, 2008)

well i have not posted for while because of the high embarrasment caused in the thread "starting a reef tank". i <kinda> got over it and i am now back on the site. snoopy died because he jumped out of the tank, and, sure enough, my dad went out and bought another shark. this time its a marbled shark. i always thought that that high nitrates cause Inverts to die and according to archer772 crushed coral is a nitrate tap, and indeed clean-up inverts like hermies and turbos die while the clams and feather dusters survive, and both of them have been around for a *long* time. well now my dad is down to only 3 killies, they seem to die off one by one because their gills blow up. all of my freshwater fish died of an ick, including a few platy fry, and i did not want to try keeping fish again, me being so upset. i have always seen this stuff saying "water changes weekly. box filter=complete waste. CC=nitrates" while my dad, for all his 30 years has been the complete opposite, even with his first 10 gallon with a few blue damsels. now i really dont have anything to say on this forum because i am to upset in freshwater forum while i am <usually> completely unaccepted. just like reality. except in reality i have a special priveledge to skip recess and help around with the 1st graders. all i can do here is ask questions and not answer somebodies question. this makes me feel awful not being able to be a nice member and help others.


----------

