# Committed the 3 cardinal sins and now have multiple problems / illness.



## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

Hello All,

I'm sorry this is going to be such a long post. And am very appreciative of any help I can get! Thanks in advance!

I hope I can get some advice quickly. I set up a 50g using about 10g of water from a tank that has been cycled for about 3 mos and is doing well. I waited 2 wks before moving some fish (1 dwarf powder blue gourami, 1m 1f Dalmatian molly) to the large tank. 1st mistake, I didn't wait long enough and it didn't cycle properly. (I didn't know this till now)

I added 1f molly, 1 Pictus cat, 2 Otocinclus about 1 wk later. Then within the next 2 weeks I added 5 dwarf gouramis, 6 glass cats, and an albino cory. 2nd & 3rd mistakes, too many fish too fast without quarantining them. They were all doing great till now.....

Now I'm having multiple issues and not sure which one to treat first or how. I have been checking the levels and doing 20-30% wc every 2 weeks. The testing has been fine, Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate < 20. 

One of the new gouramis I got (powder blue) started acting odd about 4 days ago, just hanging by the heater, and all of the gouramis looked bloated. I gave them zucchini and peas and the next day they looked back to normal but the one. He was on the bottom of the tank and when he tried to his swimming was very erratic. I took him out and put him in a fish bowl, he died same day. I went to the lfs (Petsmart, probably another mistake) and asked if they were having any trouble with their other powder blues, when we went over and looked there were 2 dead and almost all the others looked bad. The gouramis were in separate tanks, flame red, powder blue and plain "dwarf" gourami. Of course they know little if nothing about these fish so the cause of death may never be known.

The next day my male molly was hanging out on the bottom of the tank hiding, he has never done that. (One of the females did just have fry the day before and they were both at the bottom in a corner together this morning. Mating?) He goes back and forth from hiding to seems fine.

Another gourami now has a red spot on top of his head and looks a little red in the gills, but acts fine and is eating. Also, today my albino cory has red gills and is swimming frantically around the tank.

Yesterday I checked the water and it was fine again (Mardel test strips). BUT, for whatever reason I decided to check it again with a different brand strip. (Jungle) and put a Seachum ammonia indicator in the tank. This strip showed my Nitrite over 3! nitrate <20 and ammonia 0. I did a 50% water change and today my nitrite is still at 3. (I think my tank is cycling now and wasn't complete before?)

The tank has been up for 5-6 weeks. 

I purchased a 10g yesterday, filled it with 5g of water from my healthy tank and 5g tap with purifier. Now I am wondering who I should move to it? The sick fish or the healthy fish? I really want to get the albino out of that water but am afraid to put him with the other ones that may be sick if it's contagious. And am afraid to put him in my healthy tank in case it's not just the high nitrites bothering him.

I cant treat the large tank for disease with my cats and otos in there. And I'm not sure what to treat it for.

How much water can I change on a daily basis to get the nitrites down? And is that what I should stick with for now instead of the "all purpose" treatment tablets?

I really don't want to loose my powder blue, he is very sociable and will come up and put his feelers on my finger and almost rub against me. My Pictus is getting to be like that too! Oddly enough, the only aggressive one in the tank is the male molly, I thought another female might calm him down but it didn't. 

Thanks a bunch!! 

Vicky


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

For one thing, 10 gals of water from a cycled tank won't do any good. There is very little bacteria in the water column. All of the fish are suffering from nitrite poisoning and it won't do any good to put any of them into a uncycled 5 gal. Start doing 50% water changes daily to bring those levels down. No meds will help this. You can also add 1 teaspoon per 5 gal of water to help the fish develope more of a slime coat to lessen irritation. Do not add any more than that as the cories and other catfish can't tolerate it.


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

Also, I have live plants, Hornwort, anacharis, small sword plant, and a pontederifolia (I believe)


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks! I was wondering if 50% per day would be ok or too much.

"add 1 teaspoon per 5 gal of water" Aquarium salt?


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

yes


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

I can move some of them to my 25g tank that's been cycled and is doing good if that will help. I was just worried about disease, does the high nitrite explain the red spot on the dwarf gourami?

Also, it doesn't explain the dead ones at the lfs... So I should just leave them in this tank?


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## Rohkey (Apr 25, 2011)

First thing I noticed, as did susankat, was adding 10G of water from a different tank. That's generally a bad idea because you don't know what is in that tank and an established tank will in all probability have things a new one won't be able to deal with. When trying to help the cycling along, you want the places bacteria lies (especially filter media, gravel, plants, and decorations) not the water. Adding water from one tank to another is not advised unless you have a good reason to do so.

Nitrites are as hard to get out as nitrates are in a non-established aquariums, and you'll want to do massive water changes to do so. Easy math will tell you that doing a 50% change will remove half of the nitrites, so if you have nitrite readings of 3 it'll take 2 changes to get the levels below 1, and 3 changes to get the levels below .5. I'd probably recommend doing a 50% chance once a day for the next week. Be careful about how you go about this though since this is extremely stressful on the fish, try to at least make the new water be as similar in temperature as the tank as possible.

Here is a site that shows the signs of nitrite poisoning Fish Disease - Nitrite Poisoning

In realty any presence of nitrite can be toxic, but levels below .25 or so won't do too much harm in the short term.


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

Rohkey said:


> First thing I noticed, as did susankat, was adding 10G of water from a different tank. That's generally a bad idea because you don't know what is in that tank and an established tank will in all probability have things a new one won't be able to deal with. When trying to help the cycling along, you want the places bacteria lies (especially filter media, gravel, plants, and decorations) not the water. Adding water from one tank to another is not advised unless you have a good reason to do so.
> 
> Nitrites are as hard to get out as nitrates are in a non-established aquariums, and you'll want to do massive water changes to do so. Easy math will tell you that doing a 50% change will remove half of the nitrites, so if you have nitrite readings of 3 it'll take 2 changes to get the levels below 1, and 3 changes to get the levels below .5. I'd probably recommend doing a 50% chance once a day for the next week. Be careful about how you go about this though since this is extremely stressful on the fish, try to at least make the new water be as similar in temperature as the tank as possible.
> 
> ...



Thanks you 2, I know I've read of people using tank water for that. I won't do that again. I forgot to mention that I have a filter sponge from the 50 gal that I can use also. I've got 2 whisper 30-60 hob filters on it now, that's how it came. I was told I don't need that much with the size and amount of fish I have. But, I'm just going to concentrate on getting the water clean in there right now.

I'm really upset that the other test strips were so inaccurate! Do you have a brand/type that seems better?

I am always careful with water changes and the temp of it. I also hold a plastic measuring cup in the tank and pour the water into it so it spills over the cup instead of just pouring into the tank. They seem to enjoy swimming around it while I'm doing it. :fish10:

I did move my albino cory to my other tank, I've been going to anyhow. He already seems better! Poor little guy!


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## smurfette1175 (Dec 17, 2010)

The most accurate test kits are the liquid ones such as API. They are pricier (around $25) but last for ages. My kit is still going after 2 years.


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Sometimes once a new tank finishes cycling, it goes through another "mini-cycle" when more and more fish are added. (The tank was used to just a few and is adjusting to the new bio-load). Could this have been the problem?


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

Ok, I did daily 50% wc for 5 days and my nitrite finally stayed at 0. Everything I've read says the damage is permanent, But it seems to be progressing. I lost 1 gourami and another is getting more blue around the gills and head. They all act ok and are eating, I just don't want them to suffer some slow painful death. Any suggestions? Also, to make things worse, I have to empty my 55g they are in and temporarily put them in my 25g. (prob for a wk) its fully cycled but will have ... 
4 gouramis - 3 are 1 1/2" , 1 3" 
6 blk skirts - 1-1 1/2"
3 corycats - 1" 
1 algae eater - 2"
1 bumble bee - 3"
1 glofish
1 oto 
2 red wag platties - 1 1/2"

"Sigh"
if I do daily wc do you think they will be ok?

Thanks,
Vicky


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What damage is permanent? Damage to what? What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

Nothing wrong with your Dwarf Gouramis, if they start dying again. That tank is too small for more than 1 and they will kill each other until the dominant one is left. I have a powder blue in a 29g that has killed 4 others, before I finally realized. They seem very docile to everything but another male Dwarf. Stop adding new ones. If they settle out and you have a couple survive, just leave it. When I had two in a 125g, one stayed at one end and the other at the opposite - 6ft of separation.


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## Vic (Apr 19, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> What damage is permanent? Damage to what? What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
> ****** nitrite poisoning, see beginning of thread
> Now they are all 0 last test was last night w/ API master kit
> 
> ...


********** They have not been aggressive with each other at all, and have been in a 55g long. I wish I could remember the person that had gouramis for years and discussed how they are not all aggressive like that. 
They are all dwarf.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I read the whole thread. Your fish should recover. There was never a need to get the nitrite to zero in a cycling tank. Low values (<1), as long as it is not present for long periods of time, are usually okay.

Okay on the Gouramis. If you have some that survive and get along peacefully, then you did one better than I could. Your tank is not too big to not have issues with them. If they keep dying, *don't replace them*. Incidentally, I never saw the aggression. They die from stress...not bite marks. Stress is worse. One person's experience with a fish is not always the same as yours or mine. Too many things dictate how a fish acts (size of tank, population, type of fish, etc..). They will not affect any other fish in your tank more than likely, just each other.


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