# Guppies



## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

I have 3 pair of guppies that i just got at random times in the last week. The tank is fully planted with a good filter. My test kit is on its way so i dont know my parameters yet. It is inevitable that the guppies will reproduce and I do not have a breeding tank and do not plan on setting one up any time soon. Is it ok to just let nature take its course in the 26 gallon when they have the fry, or will it really screw up my tank and parameters? I am assuming that some will die and some will be eaten which makes me think that it could cause ammonia problems. Is that right? Advice or information would be greatly appreciated!


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

lol - yes, its fine to let nature take its course. Lots of people do. You may never even see a baby, and that's fine. If all the babies are eaten, no it will not cause ammonia problems, the adults will just treat the fry like live food. Baby fish don't tend to just die, at least not guppies. Usually anybody slow or feeble will get eaten by adults in the tank. If there are lots of hiding places and fine leaved plants you may not see the babies that survive until they're half grown juveniles, old enough to not seem like food to the adults. 
The only worry I'd have is if you have pairs of guppies, you may end up with health problems in your females. The best ratio is usually two females to every male, because that keeps the males from driving the females to exhaustion. You may want to think about adding two or three more females just to give the females a little more peace.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> lol - yes, its fine to let nature take its course. Lots of people do. You may never even see a baby, and that's fine. If all the babies are eaten, no it will not cause ammonia problems, the adults will just treat the fry like live food. Baby fish don't tend to just die, at least not guppies. Usually anybody slow or feeble will get eaten by adults in the tank. If there are lots of hiding places and fine leaved plants you may not see the babies that survive until they're half grown juveniles, old enough to not seem like food to the adults.
> The only worry I'd have is if you have pairs of guppies, you may end up with health problems in your females. The best ratio is usually two females to every male, because that keeps the males from driving the females to exhaustion. You may want to think about adding two or three more females just to give the females a little more peace.


whew! I was worried lol. Really really wish someone at the pet store would of told me about the female to male ratio! You would think they would so they could sell more fish lol. 

Another thing i just thought of about the stock. With a fully planted tank how many fish could I have in a 26 gallon. I know its normally suggested that an inch per gallon is good, but with all the plants could a heavier stock be put in there? I don't know if i will, but it was something to think about. Thanks!!!!


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

If I were you, I'd leave the population as is for a week or two, then maybe think about adding the additional females and leaving it another couple weeks, then eventually you can think about slowly, gradually moving towards the inch per gallon max a couple fish at a time, and just see how it goes. See if your fish eat all the babies, or if the babies are surviving a bunch (they're so cute - if they do well in your tank you're going to love watching for them as they peek out among the plants and stuff). If the babies end up doing well you're going to be glad you saved some room for them. You'll know you're getting overcrowded if you start having trouble with your water tests, and then you might start giving away the less favorite guppies, or even trading some with other guppy people. 

The plants might give you more leeway, and then again, if the plants really thrive they could be even bigger than they are now in a few months, or if the plants don't work out, you might find yourself looking for other plants to fill in (java moss, java fern and bolbitis do really well in the same water parameters that guppies like) again, give yourself some time, and take stock again in a few months.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> If I were you, I'd leave the population as is for a week or two, then maybe think about adding the additional females and leaving it another couple weeks, then eventually you can think about slowly, gradually moving towards the inch per gallon max a couple fish at a time, and just see how it goes. See if your fish eat all the babies, or if the babies are surviving a bunch (they're so cute - if they do well in your tank you're going to love watching for them as they peek out among the plants and stuff). If the babies end up doing well you're going to be glad you saved some room for them. You'll know you're getting overcrowded if you start having trouble with your water tests, and then you might start giving away the less favorite guppies, or even trading some with other guppy people.
> 
> The plants might give you more leeway, and then again, if the plants really thrive they could be even bigger than they are now in a few months, or if the plants don't work out, you might find yourself looking for other plants to fill in (java moss, java fern and bolbitis do really well in the same water parameters that guppies like) again, give yourself some time, and take stock again in a few months.


This hobby has taught me some patience but im still not very good at it lol. I am fairly happy with the tank atm and can prob leave it for awhile. I would like to get some tetras eventually but other then that i have no idea what i want.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Tetras are a nice compliment to guppies - usually pretty peaceful : )


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I've never tried to keep any fry separate and I have all species of livebearer. By and large, adult fish will not even try to eat the babies. They may give chase at times, but I have only had 2-3 out of 80 or so fish that constantly chase and even those never looked like they could come close to catching. Your experience may be different, but people that always separate them never give the adults the time in the tank with the fry. Once the adults get used to having fry in the tank, they'll usually ignore them. I've watched Mollies come right behind fry and just sniff them and move on and they could probably swallow 2-3 at once. After the fry are about 2wks old, maybe less, you'll tend to worry less about them being eaten. They do grow fairly fast. 

They are however, very susceptible to being sucked up into the filter. I used to have Aquaclear filters on my community tank and had to fish them out all the time. You may want to look into possibly a sponge around your filter inlet.

If you plan to just keep a few adults, overstocking won't be an issue for quite a while. They take around 4 months to be fully grown. But, since gestation is 21-30 days it could look like you are overstocked pretty fast.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I have never seen fry in my community tank. As soon as they are born someone goes and eats them. In my fry tank they never get eaten. In that tank they are there with only pregnant livebearers. 

Another thing to keep in mind with the males: the ones I have that seem to be impotent seem much more aggressive towards the females so watch out for that.From now on when I go to buy males I'm going to watch them for awhile and make sure I see some action from the guy to make sure he can use it and then I'm going to ask the pet store if I can get him out myself, to ensure he is not damaged in the process.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Amie said:


> ....I'm going to watch them for awhile and make sure I see some action from the guy to make sure he can use it.....


lol, I hope this is not how you select in other situations...


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

I've been breeding guppies for 15 years, and have done the selective with drop tanks and grow out tanks, but I also end up with culls in community tanks, too, usually waiting to go to the store or on freecycle depending on how good they are, and I always end up with way more drops that are successful in the cull tanks than I'd really like. It comes down to the strain - some strains are much more cannibalistic than others. I like broody females, so if I find a female that leaves her fry alone, I tend to use her a lot, and her progeny tend to also, so I end up with a strain after a few generations that tends to leave most of the babies alone. But you never know what you're going to get from pet stores. 

With regards to "impotent males", I'd actually rather work with good looking sound males, and set up situations that pique interest (this sounds bad, doesn't it? I am talking about guppies here) and get good fry, than hunt for "goers" for their own sake. But this isn't a breeding tank we're talking about, as such, much more a display tank with contingency plans for breeding if it happens. In a display tank I'd think you'd rather have the laid back males to keep stress and fin damage at a minimum.


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## Inga (Aug 31, 2010)

Good Luck with your Guppies. My females do not bother the babies at all. I have 5 females currently and a few dozen babies in the tank together. Several different ages. As soon as I can identify males, out they go into a different tank. My tanks could be over run with Guppies in no time, if I let things just take their course.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> But this isn't a breeding tank we're talking about, as such, much more a display tank with contingency plans for breeding if it happens. In a display tank I'd think you'd rather have the laid back males to keep stress and fin damage at a minimum.


If I were to move the females to another tank, wouldn't that cause the males to nip eachothers fins? When i was at the store the males were seperate and all there tail fins were damaged.


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

chris oe said:


> With regards to "impotent males", I'd actually rather work with good looking sound males, and set up situations that pique interest (this sounds bad, doesn't it?


LMAO All I can picture is a tank with a drive in movie screen and a toy car for the fish to hang out in the back of and go to it LOL!!!!!

It might be the best idea to just pick a way and go with it and see what happens. If you want to try keeping all the fish together then give it a go and see if any fry survive and if they do and you don't want them to then you can try something else. Separating them maybe or maybe getting a small fish that is a bit of a predator. But not a really bad predator or he will start picking on the full grown guppys too.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

In my all male tanks I don't have damaged fins at all. I think usually when you see damaged fins its because the water parameters are off, that there's too much ammonia, or the ph has taken a dive, or the fish are under stress because the tank is over stocked, they have flukes or an infection of some sort, or sometimes if the filtration has the water moving way way too fast for big delicate fins. Males will nip, chase and try to mate with each other, but won't injure each other.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> In my all male tanks I don't have damaged fins at all. I think usually when you see damaged fins its because the water parameters are off, that there's too much ammonia, or the ph has taken a dive, or the fish are under stress because the tank is over stocked, they have flukes or an infection of some sort, or sometimes if the filtration has the water moving way way too fast for big delicate fins. Males will nip, chase and try to mate with each other, but won't injure each other.


The Lyretail died today, figured he would from the moment i put him in there he was acting stressed and wouldn't get off the bottom. So that leaves me at 2 males and 3 females. 

Any suggestions on how to find out if one of my otos died? I have yet to see all 4 of them at the same time - most ive seen is 3 - ive looked and looked and cleaned the filter intake a few times (wonderin if he got sucked up even thought im abnormally careful when cleaning there) ive also taken the filter floss out and let it run for a few to see if he would get spit out but never did. With as many plants as i have crammed in there not sure if i will ever find him. Advice would be good


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Oh dear - have you got your water tests yet? 'Cause you really need them, especially if you've lost one, maybe two fish. You need to test for ammonia. If you can't afford to buy a test kit yet, take a sample of your water back to the pet store and see if they can do a test on your water sample for you, sometimes they'll even do it for free. Have them write down the results and let us know what they are. It would be great to know ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, also PH if you can get them to do it. 

Otocinclus are really really fragile little fish, and if you're not seeing one, its probably no longer with you. Put the filter floss back in your filter, if the otto is in there, it isn't going to come out, not in any good way, and you need your filter floss to do its job. If you're worried about your fish getting sucked up into the filter intake, if it is one of those with the tube that the water gets siphoned into, you can take some nylon hose (like cut up old pantyhose or hose footies or anything like that) and just stretch it over the end and just fasten it with a rubber band, and that will keep the fish from going in. If this isn't the cause of the trouble, let us know. 

We're here to help-


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Oh dear - have you got your water tests yet? 'Cause you really need them, especially if you've lost one, maybe two fish. You need to test for ammonia. If you can't afford to buy a test kit yet, take a sample of your water back to the pet store and see if they can do a test on your water sample for you, sometimes they'll even do it for free. Have them write down the results and let us know what they are. It would be great to know ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, also PH if you can get them to do it.
> 
> Otocinclus are really really fragile little fish, and if you're not seeing one, its probably no longer with you. Put the filter floss back in your filter, if the otto is in there, it isn't going to come out, not in any good way, and you need your filter floss to do its job. If you're worried about your fish getting sucked up into the filter intake, if it is one of those with the tube that the water gets siphoned into, you can take some nylon hose (like cut up old pantyhose or hose footies or anything like that) and just stretch it over the end and just fasten it with a rubber band, and that will keep the fish from going in. If this isn't the cause of the trouble, let us know.
> 
> We're here to help-


My test kit should be arriving tomorrow. The guppy i lost was man handled at the store. I was surprised that the other two made it. The guy scooped out like 5 and then pinched the ones i wanted to separate them from the others to put them in the water. I was rather irritated and mad. The guppy that died was stressed from the moment he went int that bag. While the other two were trying to eat there way outa the bag while it was acclimating he just sat there stunned. 

Now the oto on the other hand, i have no idea i have looked everywhere (except under the big decor log. I have rearranged my plants and added some new ones and have yet to see the 4 together. The filter floss went back in after 3 min. I just wanted to see if a body fell out. Since i have been messing with my plants the filter intake was covered in leaves so i carefully pulled it off got the yuck off and stuck it back on. There is less the a 5% chance a fish would of gotten in there without my knowledge because of how i clean it. I just don't understand where the little guy went. I actually haven't seen the 4 together the entire time. Now that i think about it i never actually counted to make sure the guy gave me the right number of otos lol. At first i said 4 then 5 (one for my sons tank) So maybe I am being stupid for no reason lol. Wish i knew where my receipt was lol.

Thanks for helpin, i need it!


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Not being stupid at all. Those little fishes are so delicate if one died it would disappear very quickly, especially if it were behind or underneath a plant with the guppies picking at it. I'm glad the filter didn't stay disassembled for long. I know lots of people who cover their intakes with hose just for safety sake, although I never had anything show up inside the filter but snails. I'm glad there's a rational reason for the fish death(s), I was worried you were having some kind of crash, and with the possible undiscovered dead fish (that might not have been there -?) you might have a bit high ammonia. As long as your fish show no signs of distress, you're golden. If you see any distress, do a partial water change, and when those tests arrive you'll have so much more information about your tank.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would check that log for your missing oto. He may be attached to it behind and underneath doing some housecleaning chores.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

The test results are in!

Ammonia 0
nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ph 7.6
High range Ph 7.4

Whats the difference between ph and high range ph?

EDIT : Apparently both my tanks have the exact same readings...is that normal?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

You would hope that both have the same reading, unless you have something in one changing values like CO2, peat, driftwood, etc..

Hi-range ph test is just that. Believe the lowest it goes is 7.4 (could be 7.6). For those with 7.4 or below they would need the normal test. My ph out of my tap is 8.2, the normal ph test won't go that high.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Yes, its pretty normal, since they're both starting with the same tap water and all. Sounds like your tank has finished cycling (yay!)


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

Ok, so with my water being good, should i still wait to get fish? I was thinking of friendly fish that would thin out fry numbers. They haven't given birth yet, but I would like to be prepared. I've read that balloon molly's like to eat them but so far im not likely the balloon molly. 

I posted something earlier on the forum about the Balloon Molly in my son's tank. He still just sits there in the corner at the top. The only time he really moves is when its time to eat. He loves to eat, but not to swim or do anything fishy.

Any clues about the molly?
Any ideas on fish?


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Myself, I love goldfish for fry vaccuums. They are pretty, cheerful and enthusiastic fry eaters, but they don't bug the adult fish at all. Not nippy like a lot of the other fish. Granted, they get big, so you can't really have them in a little tank...

Pearl gouramis are also good fry vaccums. Peaceful to adults, they do seem to do a good job of eating up the babies in tanks where you don't want babies, and they don't get any bigger than about 2.5 - 3". Plus the male pearl gouramis are gorgeous!


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Pearl gouramis are also good fry vaccums. Peaceful to adults, they do seem to do a good job of eating up the babies in tanks where you don't want babies, and they don't get any bigger than about 2.5 - 3". Plus the male pearl gouramis are gorgeous!


I was thinking about Gouramis, they are really pretty. Is it all Gouramis or just the Pearls? How do i tell the difference between male and female? Also, I have read you can have a pair of them but on here i have read only one, which one is correct?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have 3 Dwarf Gouramis in a 29g tank.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

Went to Petsmart to look for a Gourami and they had a few dwarfs and few large ones. None were the Pearls. Now the Gouramis (non Dwarf) were all classified as Semi Aggresive, is that really safe to put with Guppys, Neons, Danios and Otos? Will the Dwarfs eat fry? And Goldfish for fry vacs is a good idea, but i was always told not to mix Goldfish with other fish because of how much ammonia they put out. Is that right?


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## Amie (Sep 15, 2010)

I've always heard not to mix them because goldfish don't like their water that warm. 

My general rule of thumb with adding fish together would be, in this case, if it's good enough to go in with an angel then it's no good to go in with a guppy. Guppys are wimps when it comes to other fish and are targets because of the long beautiful fin. Gouramis can hold their own in a tank with Angels-so I wouldn't waste my money to put those guys together.


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## chris oe (Feb 27, 2009)

Dwarf gouramis would be fine to eat fry, but yes, many of the other gouramis, especially blues, are pretty mean, so yes, no random gouramis. Pearls are very peaceful, but they're kind of stand out for that reason.


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## GeminiPrincess (Oct 1, 2010)

chris oe said:


> Dwarf gouramis would be fine to eat fry, but yes, many of the other gouramis, especially blues, are pretty mean, so yes, no random gouramis. Pearls are very peaceful, but they're kind of stand out for that reason.


Thanks!


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