# dirt fir my 10 gallon planted



## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok so i went outside today (central massachusetts) and dug up some dirt in my back yard near where i dump all my leaves, grass and other bio stuff. I sifted the dirt thru a strainer with water to remove any large particles and came out with what i think is beautiful dirt. It has a muddy consitantcy. 
Now what i was wondering is i read to boil it then you can bake it to dry it out. So at this time its on the stove.. mud pies anyone.. and it has a real earthy smell. No musty fungus smell but just nice earth smell. I am gonna take it off the stove and put it in the oven @ 150 and leave it for about 2-3 hrs. I will do this till i have enough to make a 1 inch bottom for the tank then i can cover it with fine gravel or whatever i see is better. Has anyone tried this and am i crazy for doing this?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Not at all! You could also try this with your dirt:

How-To: Mineralized Soil Substrate, by Aaron Talbot - Library - Aquatic Plant Central


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

sound like you have fun.

I would put 1" of play sand on top to trap your mud pie underneath. the put the gravel on top of that.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

i dont mind seeing the different layers thru the tank glass.. dirt, PS, gravel, but what im wondering is while ive been working with this wet soil (mud) it takes a while for it to settle and have the soil on the bottom covered with water vs muddy water. When i get the tank up and start to plant how do i stop the dirt from coming thru and muddying up the water. Because im sure im gonna want to rescape in the beginning and add new plants so that brings the opportunity to give the dirt access to the aquarium water and possibly seep up to the water column. How do i prevent this. Also with the weather im in now.. 40-50 degree weather, having the dirt dry then rewet it will take probably months now that it is getting cold. Is it ok to do the mineralization just one or so? 

Oh and the gravel i have now is your ordinary aquarium black gravel probably averaging 1/4 inch diameter. Do they make a finer gravel or coarse sand so it looks more like the bottom of a river or lake?

Im also thinking on scraping the 10 and just using the 29 gal i have in the attic..


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeff5347 said:


> i dont mind seeing the different layers thru the tank glass.. dirt, PS, gravel, but what im wondering is while ive been working with this wet soil (mud) it takes a while for it to settle and have the soil on the bottom covered with water vs muddy water. When i get the tank up and start to plant how do i stop the dirt from coming thru and muddying up the water. Because im sure im gonna want to rescape in the beginning and add new plants so that brings the opportunity to give the dirt access to the aquarium water and possibly seep up to the water column. How do i prevent this. Also with the weather im in now.. 40-50 degree weather, having the dirt dry then rewet it will take probably months now that it is getting cold. Is it ok to do the mineralization just one or so?
> 
> Oh and the gravel i have now is your ordinary aquarium black gravel probably averaging 1/4 inch diameter. Do they make a finer gravel or coarse sand so it looks more like the bottom of a river or lake?
> 
> Im also thinking on scraping the 10 and just using the 29 gal i have in the attic..


With the layering I use, the sand traps the soil preventing it from dirtying up the water.

my .02


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

could i use PS like this 
Shop QUIKRETE 50 Lb. Play Sand at Lowes.com

and would using this top soil be better than the stuff i did today. 
Shop Timberline 40 Lb. Premium Top Soil at Lowes.com at 2 bucks. Man substrate on the cheap


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeff5347 said:


> could i use PS like this
> Shop QUIKRETE 50 Lb. Play Sand at Lowes.com
> 
> and would using this top soil be better than the stuff i did today.
> Shop Timberline 40 Lb. Premium Top Soil at Lowes.com at 2 bucks. Man substrate on the cheap




I believe either will work.

The top soil may have a little too much nutrients in it so you may have to watch your lighting and kill the lights occasionally to prevent cloudiness. After a few months of operation things should settle down and the water remain clear. But it is a good price. I just use the peat moss and don't have as much cloudiness problems.


my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm going to do mineralized topsoil "mud" for my 29 XH rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Also going to mix the mineralized soil a bit with peat moss, then top with some silica sand and finish off with Safe-T-Sorb.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> I'm going to do mineralized topsoil "mud" for my 29 XH rebuild. I'll let you know how it goes. Also going to mix the mineralized soil a bit with peat moss, then top with some silica sand and finish off with Safe-T-Sorb.


Are you making the MTS yourself or getting from someone on TPT or other site? There are people selling it all the time.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I was planning on making it myself...


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Gizmo, wil you be adding clay and dolomite like the link above states? The hard part now is it is getting cold out and letting it sit outside to dry is almost non existant now. I have the "mud" in a container now and i think it will be enough for the 29 i have. I may even try to put it in the furnace room to help with the heat to dry it out. Curious, will i have problems if im not able to dry it, wet it, dry it, wet it? 

Also BB, on your peat moss. Could i mix in some peat moss to the "mud" and if so what would be the ratio you would do? Also any special peat you recommend 
Shop peat moss at Lowes.com: Search Results
My thought was maybe mix the mud and peat and some laterite, sprinkle on a light dusting of osmocote, cover with play sand and then cover with caribsea moonlight CaribSea Instant Aquarium Moonlight Sand Gravel at PETCO. Will having a top that is so bright and white, will it start to get dirty looking and algae, mulm, food covered and start to look ugly


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just watch how much osmocote you use. Use too much and you could have high nitrates in your tank.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I would be parking my car in the driveway and drying my MTS in the car spot in the garage. I was planning on adding Safe-T-Sorb in place of the clay (also, as a top and side layer instead of a bottom layer), but I will be adding the dolomite.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Just curious on something. I had the mud in a container about 12x16 and it was about 4 inches tall. I had it sitting near my dehumidifier all day today to help suck the water out of it. Well i found much bigger container about 1.5x 2.5-3 ft long. SO it now has a lot more area to sit in and make it dry quicker. So i took the old container and dumped it into the new one and broke it all apart to spread it around. Well the nice earthy mud smell was replaced by a old, dirty, musty almost feces smell all i can really relate it to. This dirt has been no where near manure, dogs, fert or anything other than rotting leaves, grass, acorns and such. Does dirt just start to get musty smelling when it is drying out. I trust the dirt as i know it isnt contaminated but just wondering why the change in smell


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

*Re: dirt fir my 10 gallon planted (update and advice)*

Ok so i noticed 150 in the oven was not cutting it. So i jumped it up to 400 degrees and wala, i got my soil dried right out. So i did the wet/dry process 2x and now i think im gonna start on the tank this weekend. I need advice from beaslbob and others that have already done this on the layering of my "cake". I will use the top soil and was think of using PFS as the the top coat as it has a somewhat white color. What do i need to add to the soil for nutrients and what do i need to add as the middle layer. 
Also wondering when i plant, can i just put the plants in before say the last layer and then the roots will start to grow and make their way to the dirt. When i add plants after is set up i will just put it in the top layer and again the roots should work their way down. 
My plan is to change from the 20 to the 29 and i will not clean anything(filter, media, plants, decor, big rocks) to keep the BB active and recolonize the tank. As far as i am thinking now i wont be using the gravel so i will lose a bunch of BB. 
Also wondering if i use pool filter sand, will it also get all brown from the diatoms. They seem to be attracted to my tank....


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

jeff, i thought you made your own mineralized top soil? Doesn't that already have soil nutrients? If you still need, I'd make my own osmocote+ gel caps. You get the fert from HD/Lowes and get empty gel caps on Amazon.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

i guess the question im wondering is do i need to put or mix stuff with the soil. From reading Beaslbobs thread and Aarons thread at APC they state to add different things. Aaron states get some clay to mix in with the soil for iron. Beaslbob i think states layer peat moss. A question since peatmoss drops Ph will i have a consistantly low Ph. My Ph now is around 7.2-7.4. 

So do i do bottom layer:soil, middle layer: ? , top layerS or PFS?

Also i am still not sure what to get as a final layer... PFS or PS (pool filter sand or Play sand) or something else. If i get the sand and it has a beige or white color will it get brown from algea after a while like my black gravel has done? Im heading out today and would like to pick up some stuff that i need.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

jeff5347 said:


> i guess the question im wondering is do i need to put or mix stuff with the soil. From reading Beaslbobs thread and Aarons thread at APC they state to add different things. Aaron states get some clay to mix in with the soil for iron. Beaslbob i think states layer peat moss. A question since peatmoss drops Ph will i have a consistantly low Ph. My Ph now is around 7.2-7.4.
> 
> So do i do bottom layer:soil, middle layer: ? , top layerS or PFS?
> 
> Also i am still not sure what to get as a final layer... PFS or PS (pool filter sand or Play sand) or something else. If i get the sand and it has a beige or white color will it get brown from algea after a while like my black gravel has done? Im heading out today and would like to pick up some stuff that i need.


I'm planning on mixing peat moss in with my mineralized topsoil (just bought some MTS on TPT for $30 shipped). The topsoil should have enough iron (which is what the clay would be for), but it wouldn't hurt to add some. I would add it as a top layer, and do Safe-T-Sorb, which is clay used to clean up oil spills. Remember to wash everything before adding to your tank to prevent particulates from clouding your water!

If you're debating between play sand and pool filter sand, do the pool filter sand - both require washing to remove particulates, but pool filter sand has many fewer and is also more uniform in grain size. As far as the sand getting dirty and discolored - it will, but that's why you should use it as a middle layer and line the walls with whatever your top layer is. Unless, that is, you don't mind dirty sand.


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok so let me see if i have this topsoil w pm mixed in for bottom layer. Middle layer pfs top layer safe t sorb is that all correct


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Sounds right.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeff5347 said:


> i guess the question im wondering is do i need to put or mix stuff with the soil. From reading Beaslbobs thread and Aarons thread at APC they state to add different things. Aaron states get some clay to mix in with the soil for iron. Beaslbob i think states layer peat moss. A question since peatmoss drops Ph will i have a consistantly low Ph. My Ph now is around 7.2-7.4.
> 
> So do i do bottom layer:soil, middle layer: ? , top layerS or PFS?
> 
> Also i am still not sure what to get as a final layer... PFS or PS (pool filter sand or Play sand) or something else. If i get the sand and it has a beige or white color will it get brown from algea after a while like my black gravel has done? Im heading out today and would like to pick up some stuff that i need.


FWIW "my" method uses peat moss, play sand, then pc select in that order from bottom to top.

Actually pc select is a baked clay that looks very much like crushed pottery. So the methods may be closer then you think.

my .02


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

izmo, JR, and BB,
Im very close now to move my 20 to a 29 and do the different layers. I finally found someone who still had the PFS. I have the topsoil that i mineralized as well. So i will have the soil on the bottom and then the PFS as a cover. Im looking for Peat moss to mix a bit in with the soil. 
Do i need another layer to cover the PFS. I think having the soil and PM mix will give me about an inch or slightly more. Then i have 2 50 pound bags of mystic white PFS. I like the sand and like the look. Do i need to layer on top of that as well. Can i just have 2 layers ..soil then PFS?
Also BB my current setup uses gravel and im at a 7.4 ph. How low will the PM lower the Ph. I already had the a scare with Co2 with low 6s for Ph. Will PM drop me that low?


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeff5347 said:


> izmo, JR, and BB,
> Im very close now to move my 20 to a 29 and do the different layers. I finally found someone who still had the PFS. I have the topsoil that i mineralized as well. So i will have the soil on the bottom and then the PFS as a cover. Im looking for Peat moss to mix a bit in with the soil.
> Do i need another layer to cover the PFS. I think having the soil and PM mix will give me about an inch or slightly more. Then i have 2 50 pound bags of mystic white PFS. I like the sand and like the look. Do i need to layer on top of that as well. Can i just have 2 layers ..soil then PFS?
> Also BB my current setup uses gravel and im at a 7.4 ph. How low will the PM lower the Ph. I already had the a scare with Co2 with low 6s for Ph. Will PM drop me that low?


sure you can just use the two layers. And that would look nice

I prefer the pc select as a top layer and gives a nice red gravelie look. I think it might also help with some ions but many tanks have been very nsuccessful with the soil sand combiniation as well. *old dude

my .02


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## jeff5347 (Aug 15, 2011)

OK BB i think i got everything im gonna need/do. Im gonna add some PM to the soil i mineralized like you stated. How much do i add. Meaning if i have say 4 lbs of soil how much PM do i add to not go overboard make any problems with chemistry? Not saying i have 4 lbs just looking for a ratio. ALso from reading Aarons post at another site about mineralizing top soil he adds clay ground down for Iron. I have the iron as well. Will having iron promote to much algae growth. One last thing. He adds laterite something of potash....do i need all that or can i just do the soil, clay, PM and layer on top with my sand?

Thanks BB for all the help. Starting to get a hold of this plant thing and what they need. *h/b


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

jeff5347 said:


> OK BB i think i got everything im gonna need/do. Im gonna add some PM to the soil i mineralized like you stated. How much do i add. Meaning if i have say 4 lbs of soil how much PM do i add to not go overboard make any problems with chemistry? Not saying i have 4 lbs just looking for a ratio. ALso from reading Aarons post at another site about mineralizing top soil he adds clay ground down for Iron. I have the iron as well. Will having iron promote to much algae growth. One last thing. He adds laterite something of potash....do i need all that or can i just do the soil, clay, PM and layer on top with my sand?
> 
> Thanks BB for all the help. Starting to get a hold of this plant thing and what they need. *h/b


I'm not a expert on mineralized soil stuff.

But from what i hear they specifically do not want peat moss added.

But other then that I do find some parallels.

First the pro choice select from here:

Pro's Choice Products

Is actually a baked clay of uniform size. According to an assay from them it has:



sms mds or assay said:


> Quote:
> 
> Si O2 74%
> Al2 O3 11%
> ...


I had to contact them for a local supplier which is usually a landscaping type from. Costs were a 50 pound bag for like $8 or so.

From what I understand from marine tanks marco algae can become iron limited so adding small amounts of iron helps oput compete hair and micro algaes. I think or suspect the same thing is true of fw plants.

For iron I sometimes use ferris gluconate from drub stores. Just mix up a capsule in an old soda bottle and add a capfull each week. Very low dose so not dangerouos but helps keep up iron.

my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

If it were me, I would just do something like eco-complete on top or something close in color at least. Most of the guys I see on the planted sites don't like a mix of colors, especially since if you plant and re-plant often you just end up with a mess. Just depends on how heavily you plant. I have a couple of tanks that the only place you see the substrate is at the front of the tank through the glass. The clay is usually in a raw mushy kind of form underneath the MTS, not kiln fire and shaved into chips. I'm pretty sure it is easy to find, or I have seen some have gone out and dug some up if you live in areas that have a clay soil.


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