# a question re: powder blue dwarf gouramis...important!



## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

good evening, everyone!

i'm asking a question on behalf of a friend of mine who, for some reason, does not want to join a message board! but she's got a question that's weighing on her mind and i'm thinking perhaps you guys can help.

she has a single powder blue dwarf gourami in a 20 gallon tank. she is unsure whether or not it is male or female.

she's not sure whether her tank is cycled. her local pet store does not sell test kits, nor do they do water testing. she wasn't aware of the nitrogen cycle process until after her tank was set up, and i told her about it. so...she's in the dark for now. she ordered a kit online and is waiting for it to arrive.

she's wondering if the gourami is okay in the tank alone, or if he will die without another tank mate to keep it company. her test kit will arrive within 2-3 weeks. perhaps that sounds like a silly question, but i have no answers for her!

i'm not sure what made her decide to buy a dwarf gourami as her very first and only fish. she said the pet store employee told her they are good starter fish.


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

First don't add any more fish. Research the nitrogen cycle. Only way to save the fish is to do 20% water changes minimally once a day till the cycle is over. If the fish is breathing heavy (rapid gill movement and gulping). Another good indicator the tank is still cycling is if the water is cloudy, and once the cycle finishes it'll overnight clear up. 

Second where did she order from thats its going to take 2-3 weeks? Unless that was a typo. Any petco, petsmart or chain pet store will sell test kits. If there are none of those around go to amazon or ebay those will be your cheapest bet and will not take more then 7-10 days.


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## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

woody019 said:


> First don't add any more fish. Research the nitrogen cycle. Only way to save the fish is to do 20% water changes minimally once a day till the cycle is over. If the fish is breathing heavy (rapid gill movement and gulping). Another good indicator the tank is still cycling is if the water is cloudy, and once the cycle finishes it'll overnight clear up.
> 
> Second where did she order from thats its going to take 2-3 weeks? Unless that was a typo. Any petco, petsmart or chain pet store will sell test kits. If there are none of those around go to amazon or ebay those will be your cheapest bet and will not take more then 7-10 days.


hi there, so nice of you to write back, thanks! she said the fish isn't breathing rapidly or gulping but that he doesn't swim much. she said he doesn't look distressed, just like he's hanging out in space, not swimming around the tank but appears comfortable with no frantic breathing, no erratic movements, no changes in appearance, his fins moving at an average rate, no gulping, no sinking movements, spends some time at the surface, gently coasting along. she said her water is crystal clear. 

she's in northern canada. she ordered from an ebay dealer, who told her once the payment had cleared (2-3 business days), they would then ship her product to canada, which they said would take approximately 10-14 business days. there is no chain pet store near her...just a small, independent family run business. i'm from northern canada originally - shipping there can be a real pain in the butt.


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

Welcome to the forum! Be sure to introduce yourself in the threads. Ahh that sucks about shipping. How long as the tank been up and running, how large is the tank and does she have filtration? Gourami's if my memory suites me correctly are a messy fish meaning they create a lot of waste and are not by any means a good fish to start cycling a tank. There is a thread on here on a fish less cycle so a person doesn't have to put the stress of cycling on a fish. Only good news is the gourami's are very hardy fish so if she keeps up on water changes the fish will most likely survive. Just feed if it will eat a very small amount every 2 days. If any food doesn't get eating remove it from the tank. 

Cloudy water happens right at the end of the cycle, so when she reaches that stage she will know its almost done. I also forgot to add being "lazy" and not eating is another sign of the cycling process. But if she added the fish within the last week part of timid could partly be due to being just added to the tank. Swimming at the surface could possibly be low oxygen in the water if there isnt any surface movement or weak movement. A good ripple is what she wants to aim for. Just an FYI the bubblers for a lack of better terms dont add oxygen to the water with the bubbles, its actually the bubbles breaking the surface tension. Make sure she is using a quality water conditioner before she does water changes, seachem prime is a great one.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudy water is not part of a normal cycle.I have never had cloudy water!It is a sign of a bacterial inbalance usaully caused by overfeeding.
The gourami is a labarynth fish meaning it HAS to breath O2 from the surface of the water.
99.9% chance it is a male as they rarely if ever sell females.There is real health issue concerns with dwarf gouramis and the large fish farms never sell females or they wouldn't be able to breed(they can be that short lived!)
It will be fine alone.If another fish is wanted IT CAN NOT BE ANOTHER GOURAMI,or one will be killed!They really don't like each other(especially being both males).
Change water every other day or so since you have no test(like 50%) and feed light like woody said.


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## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> Cloudy water is not part of a normal cycle.I have never had cloudy water!It is a sign of a bacterial inbalance usaully caused by overfeeding.
> The gourami is a labarynth fish meaning it HAS to breath O2 from the surface of the water.
> 99.9% chance it is a male as they rarely if ever sell females.There is real health issue concerns with dwarf gouramis and the large fish farms never sell females or they wouldn't be able to breed(they can be that short lived!)
> It will be fine alone.If another fish is wanted IT CAN NOT BE ANOTHER GOURAMI,or one will be killed!They really don't like each other(especially being both males).
> Change water every other day or so since you have no test(like 50%) and feed light like woody said.


thanks SO much everyone! feed how much? like, two flakes? three flakes? every two days?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

If it is (I think it is ) the only fish in tank then yes 2-3 flakes every or every other day will be fine.


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## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

yikes...everyone...BAD NEWS. 

she just called me and told me that her gourami died. she isn't sure what killed him. she's a new fish owner so heaven knows. could be a combination of things, i suppose, from bad water conditions to overfeeding...perhaps she wasn't cleaning the tank properly, or feeding a low quality food...who knows. so many things could have gone wrong. 

i asked her to describe things to me so i could ask here and see if anyone could give us any answers.

she said that he spent a few days lingering around the surface of the water...not swimming much...just hanging out basically. she said he'd go down to the bottom and hang out there as well. didn't swim mid tank at all. either up, or down. she said he didn't 'look' distressed to the naked eye. his colours were a pretty blue, no exterior wounds. his gills moved at a normal pace, no apparent struggling to breathe.

but then suddenly...without warning...

moments before his death, he began swimming extremely erratically, on his side, upside down, any which way but right side up essentially. she said he thrashed around the tank in a torpedo twirling fashion. this lasted for five minutes or so. and then he was dead on the bottom of the tank. 

now, i don't know much about fish disease...but does this sound like swim bladder to you? not moving around right side up? torpedo twirling around? 

any input would be greatly appreciated. she's kind of bummed about it, understandably so. i, as a newbie fish keeper, am interested in learning about this, as well.

:fish9:


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It probly is due to water quality from an uncycled filter/tank.
She actually is better off now and can fishless cycle her tank and take that time to learn about any other fish she may want to keep.
a disease or eve Dwarf Gourami Indovirus could be the cause ,as i mentioned these fish can be very short lived.
I doubt it was a disease and lean more towards water quality but here is a link about Dwarf Gouramis;
Dwarf Gourami Fact Sheet
Get right on down to Indovirus section and read for your self.
I would recommend the fishless cycle now there are no fish.
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f66/fishless-cycle-15036.html
Many people(members) will help with this if you or they have questions as most all of us feel this is the best fastest method to make a safe tank for our fish friends.
Don't let this discourage you or your friend,you just have to learn the basics and it gets better.


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## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

she just called again. turned out he's NOT dead, but not doing well either. she said he flipped back over again and moved around, is hovering in one place but is having a hard time staying upright. she said his body keeps curving into a u shape and he's having a hard time not falling over on his side.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It is probly bad water(ammonia poisoning) and too late to help him(can't be sure?)
Ice cubes in a container of water make for the quickest euthanasia possible.Most fish don't suffer more then 10 seconds(probly has already done more than 100x that).Tough choice but even if the fish survives permanent damage is probly done and a healthy full life is almost certain not to be possible.
Sorry.


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## hallesydney (Jul 31, 2014)

coralbandit said:


> It is probly bad water(ammonia poisoning) and too late to help him(can't be sure?)
> Ice cubes in a container of water make for the quickest euthanasia possible.Most fish don't suffer more then 10 seconds(probly has already done more than 100x that).Tough choice but even if the fish survives permanent damage is probly done and a healthy full life is almost certain not to be possible.
> Sorry.


i'll pass that on


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## discusbreeder (Oct 7, 2014)

If the fish is this sick she does not want to shock it with extreme changes. Place a bag of ammo chips in the filter to reduce the ammonia level. Do a twenty percent water change and make sure the temperature of the new water is close to that of the tank and that it has set at least thirty minutes since treated for chlorine/chloramine. Double the recommended dose for chloramine and it will also break up part of the ammonia.


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