# Old aquarium, new player.



## chainsawttp (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi everyone, I'm new here and new to fishkeeping in general.
Sorry if this gets a little long-winded but I need advice and I want to get this right. 

First of all I've got a 5gallon tank I set up a week or two ago, housing two axolotls which seem to be happily living there with sand for substrate and an internal filter running. That's about as far as my experience goes when it comes to tanks.

Yesterday I bought a 2nd hand 4ft tank (50gallon?), which had been previously established, came with gravel and ornaments included.
It's empty at the moment and the ornaments and gravel are in bags nearby.

I also have a brand new external canister filter to go with the 4ft'er and will be buying a heater and air pump/stone shortly.

Only today did I do proper research on the whole nitrogen cycle and how important it is to keeping fish. I've completely failed on the axolotl tank due to lack of knowledge, so I'm hoping that it will cycle with them living in it.
But the bigger question is the 4ft..

Firstly I plan on keeping tropical fish in it, preferably Black Ghost Knives, Clown Loaches, perhaps a plecostomus, and as far as I've read they seem to live together O.K.

So what I'm curious about is:
1. How I should go about setting this 4ft tank up, if I should thoroughly clean the gravel/ornaments/tank before use or only lightly to preserve the beneficial bacteria (if at all) to save time on cycling.
2. The water testing, whether I test tap water before filling, then fill and test, after filling, what kinds of tests and what results should I be looking for?
3. The best, honest advice on how to go about cycling? Do's and don't's, what to use, when to use..
4. What kind of maintenance/testing will it require and how often? With the smaller tank I do weekly 20% water changes, but never tested the water, which I should soon, should I approach the 4ft in a different manner?

I know it's asking a lot and I should be researching this myself, which I apologize for in advance, but I've noticed advice and tips vary on tank size, age of tanks/parts/substrate, so I'm looking for advice or even links to fit my context.

Anything would be nice.
Thank you!

(EDIT: Forgot to mention I plan on cycling the tank fishless and plantless, couldn't stand to lose fish due to lack of know-how.)


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## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

Actually all things are the same except for size of tank, each one will cycle, some quicker than others. Cycling a tank can take up to 6 weeks or more and as little as a couple of weeks. There is just so many factors that each tank will differ. You can even take 2 tanks the same size, set up the same and they will finish cycling at different times. 

First off get a liquid test kit. forget the strips as they are highly inaccurate. If you do a fishless cycle you must use some sort of ammonia, either pure ammonia, a rotting fish, some people even just use fish food, but to me that takes longer to get the ammonia up to at least 4 for the cycle to begin right. If you use fish to cycle with, do it with a hardy fish like danios and in a 55 it would take about 8 to make a difference. You don't need to test until you start adding an ammonia source.

You can test your ph before beginning by putting some tap water in a glass, test it and let it sit for 24 hours then test again, you will see a difference.

Get yourself some good dechlorinator also, like prime or something close to it. It cost a little more to buy, but you will use less of it.

Read up on the fish you want as they will all be tankbusters. You should buy fish according to what they will be fully grown as to whether they will fit your tank. Black ghost knife though a beautiful fish will get to 18 inches and shouldn't be more than one unless you have at least a 8 foot tank, as they find their food by electrical impulses and with more than one they interfer with each other and one will usually starve to death. Clown loaches get a foot long and about as big around, they also need to be in groups of at least 5. The pleco will depend on the kind. A common will get 2 feet.

Water changes are done based on nitrate readings. What ever your nitrate reading is you will want to change enough water to bring it down to below 40. If your reading is 60 you want to do a 30% change. If you add lots of plants those numbers can go down.


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## chainsawttp (Sep 13, 2011)

Thank you for the response!

I'm pretty sure I saw an API master kit at my LPS so I'll get one of those tomorrow.
I've read that you can use raw shrimp/prawn from seafood stores as a source of ammonia which seems like my safest option, if that is viable, how many would I need to use?

I have a bottle of "AquaMaster Safe Guard 5" which says it eliminates toxic ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. Should I use this to treat the water before starting the cycle? Eliminating ammonia after starting seems regressive.

I was thinking of having one BGK as I read they were aggressive toward each other, but I might decide against it since they seem to be temperamental when it comes to caring and I'm no expert on that.
Bristlenose Plecostomus was my first choice, they only grow around 5 inches don't they?

Will I have to change the water to stabilize the nitrate during cycling?

And in regards to the previously established media in the tank, will that help at all with cycling or should I clean it all properly and start fresh?


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## holly12 (Apr 21, 2011)

I agree completely with everything Susan said.

You're right - BN pleco's usually only top out at 5 inches or so, so in a 55g you could have 2 or 3 if you want. (Keep in mind, they are really messy fish that poop a LOT, so maybe one is better, lol.) There are many different colours of BN's, like Albino, Starlight, standard, etc...

The media that was previously established will help in the cycling process IF it's been kept wet. If it was allowed to dry out, you might as well rinse it out and then put it in the tank.

In a fishless cycle you don't change the water at all unless your cycle stalls or until the cycle is finished. The NitrAtes won't appear until near the end anyway.

*For your Axolotl's* - each one can grow up to 6-18 inches (_usually_ top out at 9 inches), so you are going to need a much bigger tank for them than a 5g tank. I've read that if the tank is too small, they will start to pace which causes the swim bladder to develop abnormally to one side, which causes problems for the creature. A single Axolotl needs a tank of 11 gallons at the very _LEAST._ So, for your pair, you would need a 25 gallon tank at_ minimum_. Long would be better than high.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

^What they said.On the Axolotls,long is indeed a better option than tall and depending on the actual animal,they may morph into salamanders,so be prepared for that.Also the frillies on their head is their gills and they can lose the frill with poor water.This causes their health to be compromised as they cannot finely filter out the dust and other fine particulates in the water,so keep that in mind.

And also you must share pics of them


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