# My first tank setup!



## ionix

*c/p*

Hey, finally got around to SW! 12G Nano-Cube Dx.

Please let me know what you think, if there are any improvements to be made. 

I was also wondering about the skimmer bubble level? Should it be just nearing the top? (I am going to upgrade my air compressor, just all I have at the moment). 

And what is the white on the live rock, is that actually live, growing coral? (that makes live rock (if I am even right about that?). There are two different white parts, one that is honeycombed and another that seems to be where the break was made. I am more curious about the honey combed.. 


These rocks are uncured, but thats all that was available because their shipment was weeks late. All I know is they'll decay, and although the guy thought it was bad.. I figure, why not have a bit of break down to get everything kick started? I'd be water changing every two weeks any way to keep things optimal (correct me if I'm wrong).

P.S. Using seachem stuff as directed, plus using it at the amounts to keep fish in the tank after a 7 week continuous dosage (and after that too). I will wait at least 2-4 weeks before fish, but I want at least a little shrimp so bad. My coral is dying to be explored! Lol. *r2






Here are my readings from this morning (setup last night): 

Ammonia: Less than 0.25
Nitrite: Less than 0.5
Nitrate: Less than 5 (3-4.5)
Salinity: 1.0215

_Less than is entirely a safety measure, assume it is close to those numbers, but it is not higher. It could be 0.24 though with the color charts, it is difficult to get very accurate. _

*Damn wrong section, still a forum noob xD*


----------



## Keith Westmeier

did you know that you can slowly acclimate freshwater black mollys to saltwater, they will live and reproduce in the tank. they make a great source of live food for your saltwater fish.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Keith Westmeier said:


> did you know that you can slowly acclimate freshwater black mollys to saltwater, they will live and reproduce in the tank. they make a great source of live food for your saltwater fish.


Any Molly can be acclimated to Marine, they are actually better suited for SW.


----------



## Reefing Madness

As far as the Live Rock is concerned, White on the LR itself is dead Coralline Algae. The other broken off honeycomb looking stuff, appears to be dead Acropaora of some kind, that is not Live Rock but a dead Coral.
Skimmer bubble level should be in mid lower portion of the neck.
You should not put any Fish, coral or inverts in the tank until Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, and your Nitrates come under 40. Which will be about 4-6 weeks anyways. Whch means you don't need any additives at this point because your Live Rock will create the needed bacteria for your tank to support life.


----------



## ionix

Keith Westmeier said:


> did you know that you can slowly acclimate freshwater black mollys to saltwater, they will live and reproduce in the tank. they make a great source of live food for your saltwater fish.





Reefing Madness said:


> Any Molly can be acclimated to Marine, they are actually better suited for SW.


That's interesting. We are talking like 1male-2female mollies that you normally buy in freshwater at the LFS? I want to get a clownfish and a couple of the peppermint shrimp if that matters.



Reefing Madness said:


> As far as the Live Rock is concerned, White on the LR itself is dead Coralline Algae. The other broken off honeycomb looking stuff, appears to be dead Acropaora of some kind, that is not Live Rock but a dead Coral.
> Skimmer bubble level should be in mid lower portion of the neck.
> You should not put any Fish, coral or inverts in the tank until Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, and your Nitrates come under 40. Which will be about 4-6 weeks anyways. Whch means you don't need any additives at this point because your Live Rock will create the needed bacteria for your tank to support life.



Oh. I thought it might've been fresh-growth that was still alive (because it was white). I wonder what is alive and what isn't. I think I am going to read a couple e-books to give me a better general idea (didn't think there was so much to the subject).

Thank you guys. That'll save me a bit in chemicals. I hope it is a shorter wait though..  

P.S. Also, ty for the live feeding scheme.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Clown fish are better suited for 20g tanks. But alot of people put one in a 10g tank. Not not my advise though.
You can put in a few Mollies. It will take around 4 hours to drip acclimate them to SW though, slow drip. 
The Shrimp will be no problem.
But your fish list is limited.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Clown fish are better suited for 20g tanks. But alot of people put one in a 10g tank. Not not my advise though.
> You can put in a few Mollies. It will take around 4 hours to drip acclimate them to SW though, slow drip.
> The Shrimp will be no problem.
> But your fish list is limited.


Mollies never really were my style (I got platys lol). 

Maybe those little Gobies *c/p*.. 

I really hoped for clownfish because they're so adorable with their grumpy old man faces but if you say no, I wouldn't be doing my best (didn't want to admit it but I got the whole setup for a clown, but I can understand if the hierarchy is necessary for happiness).. : (


----------



## Reefing Madness

Gobies are fine. Bunch of differnt ones of those out there.


----------



## Keith Westmeier

it is the things that you can't see that are the most important. I use to take a pair of stockings and drop them into the sump of the salt water exhibit at Feeder Supply. in less than 3 months time I had collected so many CP's that my dragonets the came self sufficient and actally started reproducing in less than a year. The CP's reproduced so fast that they look like little roaches tunneling through the sand. before I knew it I found that all of my fish could find food any time that they wanted to and that's when I knew my tank was perfect. GOOD LUCK.


----------



## rtmaston

very nice.i know you will enjoy it


----------



## ionix

Keith Westmeier said:


> it is the things that you can't see that are the most important. I use to take a pair of stockings and drop them into the sump of the salt water exhibit at Feeder Supply. in less than 3 months time I had collected so many CP's that my dragonets the came self sufficient and actally started reproducing in less than a year. The CP's reproduced so fast that they look like little roaches tunneling through the sand. before I knew it I found that all of my fish could find food any time that they wanted to and that's when I knew my tank was perfect. GOOD LUCK.


I tried to look but whats a CP? At first I thought you were talking about Black Mollies but they don't tunnel. Hahah.*r2



rtmaston said:


> very nice.i know you will enjoy it


I think so. It's already quite exciting. I am literally just sitting on the floor infront of my tank waiting for something to happen. Nothing yet, just pebbles stirring about from the powerheads lol. 

Question, further on the clownfish topic, why would it be not recommended to have one (or even two) in a 12G? Is it the size that they get too?


----------



## Keith Westmeier

Copepods


----------



## Reefing Madness

Yup. Their adult size, they are recommened for a 20g tank. 
CPs are Copepods. The ony thing a Dragonette eats. Usuallly.


----------



## Sully

CP= Copepods. 

Reason for size of tank ref clown fish is they need a little room to roam around. 12g would be pretty cramped for even one.

well I see I'm slow to the party again, lol.


----------



## ionix

Keith Westmeier said:


> Copepods





Reefing Madness said:


> Yup. Their adult size, they are recommened for a 20g tank.
> CPs are Copepods. The ony thing a Dragonette eats. Usuallly.





Sully said:


> CP= Copepods.
> 
> Reason for size of tank ref clown fish is they need a little room to roam around. 12g would be pretty cramped for even one.
> 
> well I see I'm slow to the party again, lol.


Oh. I'm going to upgrade my 25g into a tank once I get the hang of everything (I'll take my babysteps *old dude and pay back my bill on this current build ($~250CDN so far lol)

Though when should I begin a CP colony? Do you guys supplement their food (and would you at the suggested stage, in my case?)? I wonder on the side, if I got them early, would they assist in curing the live rock if they were hungry (they eat algae and phytoplankon? Or herb scavengers?)?

Would a copepod colony have a noticeable impact on my tank in terms of waste? 

P.S. Welcome to the thread, Sully! *w3*w3*w3


----------



## Reefing Madness

No, the Copepods will nit aid in the cycling of your tank. You can buy them by the hundreds from Reefs 2 Go. Advertiser here. They grow and multiply in your system. If you have a sump/fuge they will grow in abundance really fast. Live Rock will cure by itself, in time. You can not rush it, nature will take its course.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> No, the Copepods will nit aid in the cycling of your tank. You can buy them by the hundreds from Reefs 2 Go. Advertiser here. They grow and multiply in your system. If you have a sump/fuge they will grow in abundance really fast. Live Rock will cure by itself, in time. You can not rush it, nature will take its course.


Okay.. I guess patience would be good here.. Guess I will have to stick to taking tests and watching.

I will buy from them, but I just don't understand the other portions like polyps and all that (I'd rather save some shipping), and I can't find a source that entirely tells me I could support them or if it is even feasible. 

My first picture has a intake that goes all the way to the bottom of and opens to the following chamber and exits the mid region there to the pump chamber and back up.. Would that be a good place? 

Abstract to support the above, water comes in "Input." Output is where the "PUMP" pumps water to out of the areas. Skimmer is the location of the skimmer. Birds eye is picture 1 in my first post. I was wondering if I could put CP in the area before the output and inside the input, with a black filter sponge somewhat locking the CPs out from getting in the pump?

. <-- is placeholder, can't have a bunch of spaces.

Input Skimmer Output
|||||.............|.........|
|....|.............|_........|
|....|.............._........| 
|....|..............|.........|
|...................| PUMP|
|--------------|-----||


----------



## Reefing Madness

You can just throw Cheato in the open area of that fuge system.
Supporting Polyps is easy, you have to have enough lighting for them, and occasionally feed the tank Phyto or something of that nature. PODs are easy to maintain too, you don't have to do anything for those.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> You can just throw Cheato in the open area of that fuge system.
> Supporting Polyps is easy, you have to have enough lighting for them, and occasionally feed the tank Phyto or something of that nature. PODs are easy to maintain too, you don't have to do anything for those.



Okay, so order those bugs, cheato, polyps when everything clears up? 

If I am going to be feeding phyto, all will enjoy it apparently. Plus any excess nutrient will go into algae/cheato which apparently the bugs eat too. Am I right?

By the way, is it regular shipping that they come in or overnight? Curious as to when I should prepare the order?

Thank you by the way for all your help with this.


----------



## Keith Westmeier

What part of town do you live in? Email me before you spend more money than you need tk on your hobbie. There are alot of short cuts to get you where you want to go. A first class setup does'nt have to cost an arm and a leg.
[email protected]


----------



## ionix

So I'm trying to decide on which external skimmer I should get, I want to use it on the biocube and on the next tank when I upgrade? 

It'd be too expensive to start anew now, this is a gift from my family because they want to spur me on btw (I help out as much as possible).


----------



## Reefing Madness

Whats your price range? And what size tank are we talking about for an upgrade? External or HOB?
Protein Skimmer Filer Power Pump Large Aquarium Fish Tank Sal Water New | eBay


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Whats your price range? And what size tank are we talking about for an upgrade? External or HOB?
> Protein Skimmer Filer Power Pump Large Aquarium Fish Tank Sal Water New | eBay


External, is there any you recommend? Any price, it is a gift from my relative whom is a doctor (I just have to explain everything (which I read up on, but not sure if there is a great brand like Eheim vs. Fluval (I am hands down Eheim), and if he doesn't think its absolutely useless, he will get it).

I guess in this case it is the different forms vs others (tornado vs. current against) or is it all the same?.. And I do not understand at all how different forms can assist better than others with different conditions when it is external..?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Basically the pumps are a HUGE player in the skimmer things. Also, if $$ is no object here, then I recommned the DELTEC Skimmer. Best on the market. You also did not specify a Tank size again.
Protein Skimmers | The Aquarium Solution
Octopus - Bulk Reef Supply


----------



## Keith Westmeier

Hello, from Keith;-) 
Here it is- Proffessonally Speaking.
There is only one way to go, a 55 gallon will make your life so much easyier. 
A REMORA PROTIEN SKIMMER is an excelient external unit 
The cost down here at Green Tree Pet Center is $189.99. 
I will get ba8k to you on the price of the tank.


----------



## Keith Westmeier

Hello Again  
Are you sitting down¿ TANK-LIGHT-WOODEN CABINET,& 2 POWER HEADS.
A WOPPING, BIGGITTY-BIGGITTY-BIG-BIG-DEAL FOR JUST
$399.00. 
Powerheads, are my Personal favorites.. MARINLAND MAX-JET 1200
Now we deffinetly need to talk. So call me at 812-5572915, or ethetank


----------



## Reefing Madness

Hopin he lives near by, or the freakin shipping charges are gonna be a KILLER.


----------



## tike

First, i wouldn't even use a skimmer on a 12 gallon tank. Weekly 2 quarts water changes for the first month will do the same thing and save you money in the long run. After that monthly 20% water changes will keep you humming along. Second, if you were to get a skimmer the cpr bak pak works waayy better then the remora IMO and is cheaper too!


----------



## Reefing Madness

Funny thing is, that he's fixin to upgrade. And the Skimmer I posted is better than both the Bak Pak and the Remora, and its Cheaper than both also. Hmm. Maybe I should rephrase.....The original Skimmer I posted.


----------



## tike

My Bad.... I thought we were talking about HOB skimmers..................


----------



## Reefing Madness

tike said:


> My Bad.... I thought we were talking about HOB skimmers..................


----------



## ionix

Okay, sounds good.

I believe Octopus is the one that is said to be good, so I will go with it.

And yes, that shipping sounds horrible. I would punch it if I were the shipping lacky. Lol.

I borrowed my friends old skimmer and its the corallife (she said it wasn't even worth it) but I'm zealous. So I got it hooked up, 6 hours later, and I've only figured out:

1) I will either need to go sump
2) I will need to upgrade my tank

Though what do you think Reef? Is this doable without messing my entire tanks look up? With my friends skimmer, it looked... "less than surreal" lol.

P.S. sorry, my tank is 12g and I want to upgrade to most like in the range of ~25g.


----------



## tike

You hooked up the coral life skimmer to a 12 gallon tank? Can I ask .......why? *#3


----------



## Reefing Madness

Got the answers for ya. Easy there Tike, I use the Coralife220, heavily modified, so its not really a Coralife now, but the thing works great now. Anyways. Oh, and free is always a good thing too, aye.
Modifing the Coralife Super Skimmer CSS | Tyler Merrick
And this:


----------



## tike

My point is just why run it anyways on a 12 gallon......yeah if ya going bigger I can see that. But I just don't think it's needed. This is from a guy that runs a SWC 200 on a 60 gallon so it isn't that i screaming about over skimming more then small, tiny water changes get the same thing done much easier. Really just wanted to know if he was kickin it around for the next build....that's all.


----------



## Reefing Madness

tike said:


> My point is just why run it anyways on a 12 gallon......yeah if ya going bigger I can see that. But I just don't think it's needed. This is from a guy that runs a SWC 200 on a 60 gallon so it isn't that i screaming about over skimming more then small, tiny water changes get the same thing done much easier. Really just wanted to know if he was kickin it around for the next build....that's all.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Got the answers for ya. Easy there Tike, I use the Coralife220, heavily modified, so its not really a Coralife now, but the thing works great now. Anyways. Oh, and free is always a good thing too, aye.
> Modifing the Coralife Super Skimmer CSS | Tyler Merrick
> And this:
> View attachment 1860


I ordered to octo and I am gonna hang onto the coral until it comes. It honestly, isn't bad, takes a bit of logic to get started (24 hours roughly for me, so I assume I am a little retarded but thats okay, I got there in the end *r2).

It really messes up the look, having that the motor and bubble diffuser taking up 25%(which needs supplemental filter floss to get rid of bubbles (I use a bottle full of it with the diffuser and that is 98%, some bubbles but nothing worth spending any further time over). 

So I am going to get a sump going behind the tank (equal water levels, avoiding any spillage and restarts automatically) with a regular siphon (fluval tubing that I have extra) and a pump which controls the movement between. 

I can probably remove some live rock, have more dedicated space to seed dead rock, chaeto, and those bugs in the sump (of course she doesn't care that I am using the corallife, until she needs it (and she hates it)).

I don't think removing Dissolved Organic Compounds (DOC for now), can ever be bad. Even in a small tank wouldn't that in the end mean my water perimeters would be extraordinary (better than just water changes)? Please correct me, this is my hypothesis at this point.
*c/p*

P.S. the one mod page isn't loading but that picture with the floss or fishing line looks intense.. what is its purpose? Capture crap before it enters the system?


----------



## Keith Westmeier

Why are you putting the bugs in the sump? 
I thought they were supposed to live & populate the live rock where the fish could catch & eate them?


----------



## ionix

Keith Westmeier said:


> Why are you putting the bugs in the sump?
> I thought they were supposed to live & populate the live rock where the fish could catch & eate them?


I believe reef suggested it so they may continue to populate without being completely eradicated or at least creating a fail-safe. Because if I can't have my damn nemo I am going to have a ton of little cute *** things. And its probably cheaper to supplement the growth of the bugs (with the phyto I will use for chaeto) over the actually buying a lot of food for gobies.

They will be everywhere. I will just make sure they have a place to colonize and allow me to harvest freely (switching around some live rock).


----------



## Reefing Madness

The fishing line on the impellar chews up the water and air more and makes the bubbles smaller and finer, kinda like having a Needle Mesh Impellar, like the big boys use in their pumps. 
I agree with you an the Coralife with its bubble box being a pain, thats why I used a black sponge filter in place of that. Part of the MOD is removing that bubble box and the original line, and replacing it with PVC and a black sponge. No fuss no muss. Sorry about the link, it was wroking last night when I pulled it up. So, I just got the Google pics up, so you can see the other MODs for that skimmer.
coralife super skimmer modification - Google Search

The idea of the PODS being in the Sump, is that is where they will populate and ba able to grow. If you just had them in the DT, you would not continue to have enough for self population, as the fishies would munch them down. They will get into the DT from the Sump, no worries there.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> The fishing line on the impellar chews up the water and air more and makes the bubbles smaller and finer, kinda like having a Needle Mesh Impellar, like the big boys use in their pumps.
> I agree with you an the Coralife with its bubble box being a pain, thats why I used a black sponge filter in place of that. Part of the MOD is removing that bubble box and the original line, and replacing it with PVC and a black sponge. No fuss no muss. Sorry about the link, it was wroking last night when I pulled it up. So, I just got the Google pics up, so you can see the other MODs for that skimmer.
> coralife super skimmer modification - Google Search
> 
> The idea of the PODS being in the Sump, is that is where they will populate and ba able to grow. If you just had them in the DT, you would not continue to have enough for self population, as the fishies would munch them down. They will get into the DT from the Sump, no worries there.


That is awesome. I am going to do that immediately. I am actually pretty excited to see the results. I think I might do the other portion with the pvc to the AQ, as I have a burnt out one, as well. I could probably utilize it further with chaeto but I think my 10g sump will really be enough for all that any way?

And I was mildly worried they would get chopped up. They must be really tiny?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Na, even if they got chopped up, they will get eaten. No worries. They kinda live in the Macro Algae itself, you can see em moving around in there once they've gotten ahold in the tank. You can see hundreds of em.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Na, even if they got chopped up, they will get eaten. No worries. They kinda live in the Macro Algae itself, you can see em moving around in there once they've gotten ahold in the tank. You can see hundreds of em.


Excited. 

this is my stock list, what do you think?



> stock end:
> 
> 4 goby
> 
> 7 nerite snails---------------------------------(cleans walls of algaes)
> 7 nassa snails----------------------------------(lives/cleans in sand bed)
> 
> 1 pompom crab-----------------------------------(pretty, requires meatier foods, copepods??)
> 4 Red-legged Hermit crabs-----------------------(eats detritus and algae)
> 1 Display Peppermint shrimp---------------------(bristle control -- watch out for look-alike camelbacks)
> 
> 200+ Copepods (200min.)
> Chaeto


This is based on 20g, as I added the sump and about 1/2 will be in the sump except for the ones for display, and ones that will affect Copepod colonization..


extra:

I am also excited, I added a side-by-side tank which has water pumping from one to the other with a regular pump but I have a aqualift in a 1'' vinyl tube catheter style (mid-top region (where bubbles may collect)) and both ends of vinyl in water. Works seemingly just as well as the $160 CPR and just as reliable, in terms of power outage. Took ten minutes to install after the hours of plotting on how to perform the task without any real trade skills.

I also plotted that if I managed to stick it to the side of the tank (by a really good or light-glued suction cup) I could do the same having a lower sump. Water level rises, hose catches the water, aqualift has a hold and fills and empties the tank until it falls under the hose opening.

Low exchange of water (15g/h) but the point is to get the organic material to the skimmer(s) (waiting on octo but have got the coralife 65 running and the biocube nano skimmer) in sump and that should function as so. Right? The "proteins" are dissolved, so no worries about needing to really "grab" it per say?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Yea, your in good shape here. Looks like you have it all together. Got 2 thumbs up here.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Yea, your in good shape here. Looks like you have it all together. Got 2 thumbs up here.


*w3*w3 thank you! I think I am almost a novice haha! *#3

also, my new readings are this: 

Ammonia: less than 0.25
Nitrite: less than 0.015
Nitrate: less than 2.5

I figure they're low because of the added 10g sump, but when should I water change? I notice debris, I bought long tweezers (for reptiles) and manually remove the large pieces. Should I even bother removing the smaller pieces if my readings never reach the water change levels? Use it to get a strong colony going?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Yea, no need for a water change at this point. Leave for another week, see how they go then. Looks good.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Yea, no need for a water change at this point. Leave for another week, see how they go then. Looks good.


New update. Huge sale on rubble (some large than avg. fist size). $1/pound, fully cured for two month I got max. 15lbs.

Also got premium branching rock (almost a year cure apparently)@3.5lbs for $15 a lbs. They actually didn't even put it through on the cash, so I got $35 for free. I don't even know how she missed it but she is the owners daughter and I always get her into a lengthy convo. Maybe she was nice, maybe I got her distracted. Either way, I didn't get ripped off and got some awesome rock.


_The large piece, branching is the premium. lots of holes._


_Middle, creating a nice cave, hopefully you agree!_

Onto the new updated sump, optimized to the best of my ability until I make some AQ chaeto factories.


_My optimal anti-microbubble system (old fluval trays slightly modded). Skimmer output goes through three layers of filter floss (100% prevention, plus anaerobic bacterial haven (changed once/twice monthly))._



_My stacks of rocks, with powerhead pushing through them, layered against the wall so there is tunnels of water flowing through (powerhead is 500g/ph)_

My readings so far are..

Ammonia:

01/01---.25
02/01---.4
03/01---.5
05/01---.25
06/01---.3-.45
08/01---0.15

Nitrite:

01/01---.5
02/01---.7
03/01---.5
05/01---.15
06/01---.15
08/01---.1

Nitrate:

01/01---5
02/01---5
03/01---5
05/01---2.5
06/01---1-1.5
08/01---3

salinity:
1.022

Ph:
7.8


Is this a good setup? At least for my needs?

Good results? Do they mean I am almost ready?

Which would you get first to feed and grow the bacteria? Snails, crabs or fish? If so, which first? I don't want to dose ammonia, or use stanky fish. And I will always maintain optimal levels to prevent toxifying the fish if necessary. 

I have been dosing with low amounts (1/8 tsp.) sugar and (4ml) vinegar every other day. Sugar feeding respiration of bacteria, vinegar for acetic acids ability to take calcium from the rocks in the sump and increase calcium availability within the tanks. If neither are used, or only partially, the additional carbon will bind inorganic materials and create water loving/hating ends (organic material), allowing the skimmer to uptake the excess material. Right??*c/p**c/p**c/p*


----------



## Reefing Madness

HOLY CRAP thats alot going on there. I don't have that much going in my big ol tank. Hope your keeping track.
No close to putting anytihng in there. Ammonia and Nitrites have to be 0.
Then goes in your CUC, I prefer snails. Then after a week throw in a fish, then after 2-3 weeks, watching your params, whatever else your going to throw in there.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> HOLY CRAP thats alot going on there. I don't have that much going in my big ol tank. Hope your keeping track.
> No close to putting anytihng in there. Ammonia and Nitrites have to be 0.
> Then goes in your CUC, I prefer snails. Then after a week throw in a fish, then after 2-3 weeks, watching your params, whatever else your going to throw in there.


It is a lot, but as complicated as it is, it creates a huge amount of flow, keeping crap flying, ensuring it doesn't stagnate. 

What does CUC mean?

Well at least I know I am well on my way, there are some expected results.*w3

So, when I naturally achieve 0 ammonia and nitrite, I should add how many snails? I am thinking 4 (one of each type, in each tank), then a fish the following week, then a crab? Then add more snails and etc. when I get more algae and my parameters continue to settle in?


----------



## Reefing Madness

CUC= Clean Up Crew
The snail idea is good.


----------



## ionix

Hey.. What do you think these little hitch hikers are?



Xenia?   



It is growing outwardly, but I have no clue, red so I guess coralline algae (a bit hopeful too).


----------



## Reefing Madness

I have no idea what coral that is yet. Red would be Coralline.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> I have no idea what coral that is yet. Red would be Coralline.


 /dance *w3*w3*w3*w3

That is awesome. I love what I have seen of it so far. And coralline growth, along with the other thing shows even better progress than just chemical testing. It is palpable. *w3*w3*w3

Hopefully not bad, though I thought I had it narrowed down to a feather duster. Then I saw pictures of the xenia. Probably a hundred others I haven't seen. lol.


----------



## Reefing Madness

To small and out of focus some, I can't tell, we will have to wait on this one.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> To small and out of focus some, I can't tell, we will have to wait on this one.


My tests say my pH is at 7.8 going around to 8.1. I didn't post it because I thought I was doing it wrong. But it turns out it normally bounces around??

I want everything that is going to occur on the live rock to grow, excluding detrimental crap. So naturally, I assume, if I have been doing good, I have some good stuff, somewhere.

I want to know a few topics, and you may copy pasta a link or as many as you think I'll need to fully understand and be able to truly use the knowledge. And I thank you for everything you have done and are going to do (if you do, but I have come to expect that you help when you know we listen to you). 

I have searched but I am confused on the topic of stabilizing the pH of my tank. I wanted to directly just use Seachem Buffer (didn't buy, wanted to ask you what I should use) but it seems to cause other element balance disturbances over time. Then some use Kalkwasser (some Ca+ additive). I am perplexed on the chemistry behind pH, so this is all very confusing.

I know my acetic acid will never actually pull enough Ca+ (not sure how it plays in pH but I know if I have coral, they'd need it) from the dead rock in the end, so I'd like to know.. If you were me, and you had enough money, what would you do? 

Also, rotifiers, why don't I want them to exist and live in my tank? Or is the a Copepod a rotifier? I am entirely confused on them, there is nothing good that I can google, "rotifier" only pulls a wikipedia page and that is pretty.. intricate.

Also, on the topic of nutrients, what general products do you use? I just rather get something trusted and I am not sure what I'd need..


----------



## Reefing Madness

Wow, very good questions we have here. 
To start with, lets go with the PH, this is a bit hard to grasp, as it goes hand in hand with your Alkalinity also. One will bounce the other and visa versa. When I've overdose ALK, I've lowered it using Muriatic Acid, but in doing this, it also lowers you PH. So, you've gotta watch both at the same time. Heres is the easy part though, most tank will bring the PH back into normal range by airating the tank, get the poweheads at the surface, get some agitation going. So each day I'd bring down the ALK, and let the PH come back up in 24hrs by itslef. But to better understand this here are some good reads.
Aquarium Chemistry; Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes, Magnesium, Mineral Ions
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners Part 3: pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Ok, next, Copepods, rotifers, kinda the samething, yea. Theres a bunch of different kinds out there, your looking at Copepods, Amphipods. And yes, you do want these things in the tank, signs of a very healthy tank, and they are food for all. If you have a sump with Macro Algae in it, these babies will populate like crazy.

Additives, no need to get carried away, there are a millions products out there. For Calcium, I use Purple Up. Simple and easy to use. Some use Kent Calcium. the Kawlkwasser is also very popular. Randal Farleys 2 part A&B is most popular with Reef peeps. Being as one moves the other, he has a concotion that will help.
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Now when you say nutrients, what exactly are you reffering to? Coral foods? And Such? There are concoctions out there for those also, target feeding is your best bet, knowing that the coral you are targeting is getting its nutrients.
I feed my tank Pytoplex and Coral Vital. Some target feed Amphipods and Rots, believe it or not even Button Polyps will meat eat, funny watching them try to suck down a POD. 
Hope I got everything. Let me know if theres anything else I can get you.

Oh, forgot, if I had the money. I'd have a sand sediment filter, a Calcium reactor, the biggest Skimmer money could buy, All digital probe monitors, and a Sump/Fuge the same size as my DT, to grow out macro algae, pods, and every plant i could get in there.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Wow, very good questions we have here.
> To start with, lets go with the PH, this is a bit hard to grasp, as it goes hand in hand with your Alkalinity also. One will bounce the other and visa versa. When I've overdose ALK, I've lowered it using Muriatic Acid, but in doing this, it also lowers you PH. So, you've gotta watch both at the same time. Heres is the easy part though, most tank will bring the PH back into normal range by airating the tank, get the poweheads at the surface, get some agitation going. So each day I'd bring down the ALK, and let the PH come back up in 24hrs by itslef. But to better understand this here are some good reads.
> Aquarium Chemistry; Calcium, KH, GH, pH, Electrolytes, Magnesium, Mineral Ions
> Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
> The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners Part 3: pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
> 
> Ok, next, Copepods, rotifers, kinda the samething, yea. Theres a bunch of different kinds out there, your looking at Copepods, Amphipods. And yes, you do want these things in the tank, signs of a very healthy tank, and they are food for all. If you have a sump with Macro Algae in it, these babies will populate like crazy.
> 
> Additives, no need to get carried away, there are a millions products out there. For Calcium, I use Purple Up. Simple and easy to use. Some use Kent Calcium. the Kawlkwasser is also very popular. Randal Farleys 2 part A&B is most popular with Reef peeps. Being as one moves the other, he has a concotion that will help.
> An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
> 
> Now when you say nutrients, what exactly are you reffering to? Coral foods? And Such? There are concoctions out there for those also, target feeding is your best bet, knowing that the coral you are targeting is getting its nutrients.
> I feed my tank Pytoplex and Coral Vital. Some target feed Amphipods and Rots, believe it or not even Button Polyps will meat eat, funny watching them try to suck down a POD.
> Hope I got everything. Let me know if theres anything else I can get you.
> 
> Oh, forgot, if I had the money. I'd have a sand sediment filter, a Calcium reactor, the biggest Skimmer money could buy, All digital probe monitors, and a Sump/Fuge the same size as my DT, to grow out macro algae, pods, and every plant i could get in there.


I will understand the first paragraph better when I read those links, the first paragraphs are a mindful. Lol. 

I will look into macro algae further, as I am unsure of the differences.. Much more sustainable system if I were able to feed them that instead of phyto (I want to intervene as little as possible (besides water changing, in attempt to make a wholesome environment (will always supplement in doubt)). 

I will read further but I am going to go with Purple Up, I'm sure you've seen everything. Though I will read that link and perhaps I can make a good concoction as you say. 

I am not sure, I incidentally didn't realize I was to feed them directly. I just thought nutrients in the water would suffice. but that leads to another issue, I don't even know at this point what I have. So I guess that is another question later on, but I guess, two birds with one stone if I get the copepods under way. 

Sounds palpable though, what you want, of course the biggest skimmer has to be DIY? It'd be an awesome project, full of ideas, methods, planning, and probably hours upon days of trouble shooting. WOOO. 

I'll have to look up the sand sediment filter, wonder how they work.

Thanks for the good reading material. I will try to digest it and hopefully come up with more questions. Lol. More questions, more answers, a seemingly back and forth cycle eh? xD


----------



## Reefing Madness

Yea, pretty much. By the time you think you've got it figured out, you go WTH!!! how did that happen.. =) nOh I forgot to mention also, I use Baking Soda to boot my ALK up. Again here, just gotta watch the PH, but once you've done it a few times, you get the hang of it.
Now, as far as feeding the corals, only only do it every couple of weeks. Its not all the time, and it would also depend on what corals you have and are planning on keeping. So, feeding them all, no, its not a necessity. Lighting and very good water is usually all you need, the extra feeding is a bonus.


----------



## ionix

So.. I went out and got chaeto yesterday, as my readings were really low. Though I did a water change the day before (10%). Never the less, I figured, why not grow a nice plant while I`m waiting. 

I just did my strip test and it shows nothing and my ammonia tests have been messed up. the freshwater test kit winds up with the ammonia tests being slightly green tinted, being my based line was basically 0.15+ no matter what. 

So next week, gonna buy the actual kit and hopefully come up with better results.

I got my LFS to do my readings too but they tried to sell me stuff after saying it was great and all this and that (coral). I swear I heard of a thousand places that I would swear were in Africa.

I figure chaeto would help*c/p* and I also got that phyto stuff in the bottle for when I get the green for copepods


----------



## Reefing Madness

Cheato will keep the water clean. It eats up excess nutrients in the water along with Phosphates.


----------



## RareLiveCorals

Reefing Madness said:


> As far as the Live Rock is concerned, White on the LR itself is dead Coralline Algae. The other broken off honeycomb looking stuff, appears to be dead Acropaora of some kind, that is not Live Rock but a dead Coral.
> Skimmer bubble level should be in mid lower portion of the neck.
> You should not put any Fish, coral or inverts in the tank until Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, and your Nitrates come under 40. Which will be about 4-6 weeks anyways. Whch means you don't need any additives at this point because your Live Rock will create the needed bacteria for your tank to support life.


Live rock is indeed dead coral!!!


----------



## Reefing Madness

RareLiveCorals said:


> Live rock is indeed dead coral!!!


Its made up of dead coral, consists of dead coral. It itself was not a coral.


----------



## RareLiveCorals

Reefing Madness said:


> Its made up of dead coral, consists of dead coral. It itself was not a coral.


You told him he did not have live rock. You told him he had dead coral.

He has live rock, which happens to be dead coral...


----------



## Reefing Madness

Ok, now that you made me go back to see why I had written that, he does have dead corals in the tank, Exsoskeletons of dead corals, along with Live Rock......... You can see the corals kinda resembling dead Cat Paws........


----------



## Reefing Madness

RareLiveCorals said:


> You told him he did not have live rock. You told him he had dead coral.
> 
> *He has live rock, which happens to be dead coral*...


Hmm, kinda gettin lil picky here aren't we? Know one is going to know that, and I'm not going to start explainging that in Posts. If I say a Dead Coral, everyone is going to know I am not talking about Live Rock......


----------



## RareLiveCorals

Reefing Madness said:


> As far as the Live Rock is concerned, White on the LR itself is dead Coralline Algae. The other broken off honeycomb looking stuff, appears to be dead Acropaora of some kind, that is not Live Rock but a dead Coral.
> Skimmer bubble level should be in mid lower portion of the neck.
> You should not put any Fish, coral or inverts in the tank until Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, and your Nitrates come under 40. Which will be about 4-6 weeks anyways. Whch means you don't need any additives at this point because your Live Rock will create the needed bacteria for your tank to support life.


Lets set the facts straight. you said that the broken off honeycomb stuff is dead acropora it is not LIVE ROCK. Dead acropora is LIVE ROCK. It is rather quickly live rock after dying. The beneficial bacteria will spread rather quickly to it and make it live rock. Not to mention he might have bought it as live rock and if it was already seeded, it indeed is live rock. Don't make the guy feel as if he doesn't have live rock or that he was sold a bill of goods. So just to be redundant, DEAD CORAL< DEAD ACROPORA IN A LIVE ENVIRONMENT IS LIVE ROCK!


----------



## Reefing Madness

Whatever man. You wish to be OCD in a Post, you go right ahead. And you'll have to explain everything you post.......Picky......Very......Im done...Move on.


----------



## ionix

hey, so my tank has about 5-10 adult sized copepods (there aren't really any smaller ones so I figure, adult) on every inch of the glass on my cube and sump. At what point would the populous be abundant enough to support a goby? And my return is a siphon back, so no chopping of the bugs.

I am supplementing their growth with phytoplankton (in the bottle), a couple drops every second day.


----------



## Reefing Madness

You can always give it a try. Theres not going to be a givin number, not easy to count them. =) The Dragonette does nothing but seearch these out all day.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> You can always give it a try. Theres not going to be a givin number, not easy to count them. =) The Dragonette does nothing but seearch these out all day.


awesome. we'll see how it goes.


----------



## ionix

So I decided to upgrade my tank to a 40g eventually when my baby/ies outgrow it (my LFS owner just raised his own false clownfish fry, bought two for $15 (I know his mom, she is my instructor in college, hilarious)). 

This tank at this point is a giant to the little baby mandarin dragonet. I feel pretty safe with my perimeters and copepod populations so far. It is really pretty and a very stable swimmer (the side wings are mesmerizing). Breathing is not labored, even on first introduction.. It was almost surreal that the fish was so calm (I never took the fish out of water, I just slow drip and it was mostly tank water any way when I poured him in). 

As of yet, my copepod population are what I would consider to be thriving to near pest populations (supplemented). Bob as the mandarin may, I have faith the copepods will have the tank under their control in due time.

my friend took some hi-def pics recently so I am awaiting him to relay them so I can post them.


----------



## Sully

You'd get taken a lot more seriously around here if you didn't attack everyone in your posts. Especially members who've been around longer than you have. Try speaking to people like peers instead of red headed step children sometime and see if that helps. Oh, and please, send me some sort of PM if you don;t like what I've posted, I'd love to read it.

Forums aren't a competition to see who knows the most, they're for people to come to and learn all they can.



RareLiveCorals said:


> Lets set the facts straight. you said that the broken off honeycomb stuff is dead acropora it is not LIVE ROCK. Dead acropora is LIVE ROCK. It is rather quickly live rock after dying. The beneficial bacteria will spread rather quickly to it and make it live rock. Not to mention he might have bought it as live rock and if it was already seeded, it indeed is live rock. Don't make the guy feel as if he doesn't have live rock or that he was sold a bill of goods. So just to be redundant, DEAD CORAL< DEAD ACROPORA IN A LIVE ENVIRONMENT IS LIVE ROCK!


----------



## ionix

Hey, what eats a lot of copepods? I don't mind upkeeping them but they're becoming rather annoying on the glass. They have officially taken over my tank. With a hector and mandarin goby (my tank will be upgraded to 40g when the mandarin is too big)..

Letting them starve seems problematic. I'd rather keep the population bursting as they can really clean up food, but I'd like them to get killed more often as well.

My mini-brittle star, and my sea star are both doing great. My large one accepting shrimp pellets (only given once a week to supplement his growth and to ensure survival).


----------



## Reefing Madness

Lots of fish will eat Copepods. Mandarins and Scooter Blennies are the biggest ones at knocking down the population though.
Talked to a bunch of people who net them by the thousands and sell em.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Lots of fish will eat Copepods. Mandarins and Scooter Blennies are the biggest ones at knocking down the population though.
> Talked to a bunch of people who net them by the thousands and sell em.


Nice. I think I could handle that. I've already collected some from the top of my water and given them, with a piece of live rock to my friend who has a bunch now. 

Pretty nice. A hectors goby, mandarin goby and a scooter blenny.. I think I have reached the advanced aquarist stage!  

I have junked my anemone project, there impossible to collect here. All are over $200 but at full size. Not my cup of tea.. the growth, is the best part in my opinion and how they interact with the environment. Half of the fun killed. 

I still haven't found anything else I like besides clownfish as free swimmers. Hector does swim but not really facinating besides how they chomp rock and filter literal calcium carb/copepods through their gills.


----------



## Reefing Madness

I'd say your Advanced!! Those Mandarins and Scooters aren't easy to keep.
Clowns arent' really free swimmers, they honestly don't do much, but hang out in a given territory. Odd Clowns are the ones I'm looking for. But, gotta get em cheap, I ain't paying huge bucks for them.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> I'd say your Advanced!! Those Mandarins and Scooters aren't easy to keep.
> Clowns arent' really free swimmers, they honestly don't do much, but hang out in a given territory. Odd Clowns are the ones I'm looking for. But, gotta get em cheap, I ain't paying huge bucks for them.


Yeay! 

Hopefully something comes along for both of us. My LFS guy today offered me $85 for a piece of live rock with 5 torch hammers. He told me he was giving me a deal.. I don't know. I was just given some coral (frog spawn. med-large) so I really don't get how he can come to that assumption that, that would be a good deal. I feel like it all should be $20 unless its hard to grow.


----------



## Reefing Madness

They sell it by the Head. And its around $30 -$40 for 2 heads around here. Less if I get them at the Frag Meetings. Oh, and plus the costs of the weight of the LR h'es getting them on also.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> They sell it by the Head. And its around $30 -$40 for 2 heads around here. Less if I get them at the Frag Meetings. Oh, and plus the costs of the weight of the LR h'es getting them on also.


So if you were me, and you wanted something along the lines.. you'd take that deal? Becuase to be honest I was hard pressed with my visa.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Sure I'd take it. Most Corals apread like wild fire, and if you can make a buck or 2 on the side from Fragging it, why not.


----------



## ionix

I was wondering that. I have a coral and it seems to have grown another head and has outgrown its base. Should I move it? It is kindof like muffin-topped. Another question is, how do I (if I should)?

Another question, how quickly would a foxface outgrow my tank from 1/2-1"? Just wondering if I was going to get it, or upgrade when it outgrows my tank (3").


----------



## Reefing Madness

Gotta Frag it, cut it low on its base, kinda where it branches off. If its a larger piece, you can cut it much higher.
Fish growth will all depend on what and how much you feed them.
Fragging corals frog spawn - YouTube


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Gotta Frag it, cut it low on its base, kinda where it branches off. If its a larger piece, you can cut it much higher.
> Fish growth will all depend on what and how much you feed them.
> Fragging corals frog spawn - YouTube


So it will move on its own once it is level with other rock?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Im sorry I do'nt understand the question. ??
Frogspawn will not move on its own. It may jump outta its Crown and move, but they usually don't make it. You cut the skeleton in which the coral resides in, and then you glue it in a place you want the new one to grow.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Im sorry I do'nt understand the question. ??
> Frogspawn will not move on its own. It may jump outta its Crown and move, but they usually don't make it. You cut the skeleton in which the coral resides in, and then you glue it in a place you want the new one to grow.


Oh so its a matter of time before one gets knocked off and it lands on the gravel and I place it where I want?? It is kindof already on a little frag piece. 

didn't really understand how it propagated.


----------



## Reefing Madness

Falling off by itself? Well, thats not really going to happen. Its a Calcium Skeleton thats its growing in. It can propagate, but they usually just grow more heads out of the one skeleton.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Falling off by itself? Well, thats not really going to happen. Its a Calcium Skeleton thats its growing in. It can propagate, but they usually just grow more heads out of the one skeleton.


Thank you. I just figured out by looking at some reference documents. It basically gave me a little more than what you said, though your highlights made it make sense (I skipped through to the other questions I had). Will it eventually get "choked" by not having enough places to grow in? Will it remedy itself naturally?

Another question about my mandarin dragonet. I didn't notice if he was skinny at the LFS, but I have heard they have had problems with them not having enough. so is it possible the copepods are so little that the mandarin takes a while to actually regain its weight? It was lethargic looking at the LFS, but has become more active.

Same with this lawnmower blenny I got for all my algae (sunlight). Sunlight happens to make my coral very happy, so I decided to remedy it with a lawn mower. Plus they take up nutrients. All in all, good.. right? *c/p* (When he gets bigger I will upgrade, whichever fish is first *r2*pc)


----------



## Reefing Madness

Remedy itself? No, those things get really BIG. It will take some time for that to happen though, and inthe meantime, you make some bucks selling off Frags.
As far as the Mandarin, yea, usually in the LFS they aren't fed wll, and look like crap when you get them home, should starting looking better in a couple weeks. If you have sunlight in that tank, I'd recomment getting a HUGE CUC, they will be the only things getting the algae under control. The Blenny will only knock off so much.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Remedy itself? No, those things get really BIG. It will take some time for that to happen though, and inthe meantime, you make some bucks selling off Frags.
> As far as the Mandarin, yea, usually in the LFS they aren't fed wll, and look like crap when you get them home, should starting looking better in a couple weeks. If you have sunlight in that tank, I'd recomment getting a HUGE CUC, they will be the only things getting the algae under control. The Blenny will only knock off so much.


Yeay, I guess I'll know when its time. I'll have a few pics up soon so we could see any way. 

Okay, I will look into those, thank you. 
Edit: I've looked into the cons. It seems a little more than terrifying. Do they release this toxin like bam-boom-pow?

Should I supplement the blenny? Algae rounds or something?


----------



## Reefing Madness

Na, the Blenny will be ok if you have hair algae growing. Once you've stabilized the tank, yea, you can throw him some algae sheets.
Looked into cons of what? I must have missed something. CUC= Clean Up Crew. Snails, hermits and such.


----------



## ionix

Reefing Madness said:


> Na, the Blenny will be ok if you have hair algae growing. Once you've stabilized the tank, yea, you can throw him some algae sheets.
> Looked into cons of what? I must have missed something. CUC= Clean Up Crew. Snails, hermits and such.


thought you were talking about Sea Cucumbers in Aquariums *r2*r2


----------



## Reefing Madness

AH, got ya.


----------



## ionix

So my adopted cichlids were rehomed to a 80g with 40g sump. Sure they'll be really happy. 

And I am the same, as a new thread is born, MY SECOND TANK SETUP!!! 

Ty esp. to the Reef master Reefing Madness, and all those whom also contributed. Hope to see you all in the next thread!!


----------

