# Proper use of a Drop Checker



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Folks,

If you plan to go with injected CO2 in your tank whether it is DIY or pressurized, be sure to use a drop checker with it. Strictly as an example, here is a link to one CAL AQUA LABS Oracle Drop Checker | Green Leaf Aquariums There are much less expensive out there and you can even find DIY videos on youtube.

Once you have it and regardless of what the directions say, you have to obtain a 4dkh solution to place in it. There are recipes for how to make your own or you can buy it from various sites also. You'll add 3-4 drop of your standard ph testing reagent and then fill to the desired level with the 4dkh solution. This is to ensure that there is a standard in the DC as different levels of kh in a tank will cause false readings in the drop checker.

Since normal operation for a pressurized system is to continuously increase CO2 until you reach a green color on your DC some time fairly soon into your lighting cycle, the amount it takes will vary without a standard. For instance, if you use tank water in the DC and your tank water kh is 10dkh, you will pump and pump CO2 into the tank and may never reach a green color but can end up gassing your fish. On the other end, if you have a low kh water the amount of CO2 you adjust to is going to be very low because now the amount required is drastically lower for the DC to turn green.

For a pressurized system a DC is THE most important tool for you to have. It's imperative that it operate correctly or you may cause harm to your fish. For you DIY people out there a DC may be a little much for the amount most DIY systems produce, but it won't hurt and if you put more than one bottle on your smaller tanks I would use one.

If anyone has any doubt or doesn't understand this, please post questions here.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

At what level below the water line would you say is the best place to get an accurate reading? Ive heard some say about three inches some say right at the top. Also I have heard that a drop checkers not as accurate with the atomic diffusers due to the mist. Whats your thought on this?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I place mine as far away from the CO2 exhaust as possible, out of any direct flow. I put just below the surface...the bottom part would be about 3" from the surface. Seems to work well there.

Never heard that about atomics, but I do know you need to keep it somewhat away from masses of bubbles from a diffuser. If you watch all the bubbles hitting your DC, you need to get it away. I think it can cause a green/yellow indication sooner. Reactors you don't have that worry.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Makes sense. The reactors give you 100% dissolution, correct?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

In theory I believe. I pump a pretty good amount of CO2 through the reactors I use and I see bubbles here and there, so I know it can't be 100%. Some may be able to do that.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

jrman83, I'm not sure I understand how to properly setup a DC, for you mention use of a low KH water (this could be RODI) to make up the mixture put in the checker. and from that you would get quick response from the checker to your tank water. I had not known of this suggestion in the past and it does make sense that tank water kh could alter effects of DC. I do have the checker and no such animal existed 20 years ago when I was deep into fish aquarium life. So I don't know all on DC but know when its time to ask questions and learn....Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Low kh if your tank was low kh, but that was just an example of the issues using it would cause. You do not use low kh or RODI (0kh) water, you use a 4dkh solution - NEVER tank water. Or, if you have separate water that you know is 4dkh will work also. Either way, you should never use water from the tank to use in your DC.

If RODI water was used in the DC you would get a very quick indication of green on your DC. You have to start with RODI or distilled water if you want to make your own 4dkh water to use. Procedures can be found on the net.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Thank you for the clarification. Larry


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

I think this goes part-way there to establishing good CO2 levels in a tank. There's circulation to take into account as well - CO2 levels can vary greatly in a tank.
The local LFS had a 90 gal corner tank operating with a small diffuser and no additional circulation other than the standard pump. You could see massive growth around the diffuser and very little elsewhere.
Here's where I start thinking that besides inline reactors, DIY is probably best suited to injecting directly into a dedicated powerhead rather than diffuse topically.
cb


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Definitely. Larger tanks are hard to get even distro. I have 2-125s that are both injected and I struggle with it at times.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Also of note - the drop checker 4dKH solution will wear out, correct? How often do you change yours, Ben?


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

anyone know anything about the SICCE co2 unit that sits inside the tank?does it work?thay have 2 sizes one is up to 40 gallons and the other is 75 gallons.


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Welcome rtmaston, and your subject should get lots of hits, so I will put my toast on it now...not familar with use, and did a quick look so here is my first thoughts on the information...at night plants discharge CO2 and you would have only one way to not have the system putting more of what is not needed into the water...remove it. And finally it must run out, and you won't know if it quit, oh forgot to add very pricey. Larry


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> Also of note - the drop checker 4dKH solution will wear out, correct? How often do you change yours, Ben?


If it wears out, I haven't read or seen anything on that. I used to replace my solution with every water change. I decided to let ride once and haven't looked back. I've noticed no difference in time they take to turn green/yellow or back to blue. I usually end up knocking them off from time to time and take the oppurtunity to re-do then.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

rtmaston said:


> anyone know anything about the SICCE co2 unit that sits inside the tank?does it work?thay have 2 sizes one is up to 40 gallons and the other is 75 gallons.


I've never heard of it. Not sure what size you need, but having to buy cartidges all the time would be a pain in the butt, I would think. No problem running longer than needed, you'd just put on a timer with your light. I wouldn't try if I had above 40 and would get the one for the 70g for my 40g - if the CO2 cartridges are bigger.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

i have been using it for awhile now.im using it in a 20 gallon tank.i bought the bigger one because im planning on putting it in my 55 gallon when i set it up.at first it seemed it was not working so i turnned it up for about a week and forgot it.i could not figure why my ph was low.i forgot i turnned it up.so i guess it does work.so far i have not change anything.it runs about 30 dollars to replace.i was wandering if anyone else is using it hear the link.let me know what you think.will post a new thread on it. ithttp://www.sicceus.com/co2.html


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

rtmaston said:


> i have been using it for awhile now.im using it in a 20 gallon tank.i bought the bigger one because im planning on putting it in my 55 gallon when i set it up.at first it seemed it was not working so i turnned it up for about a week and forgot it.i could not figure why my ph was low.i forgot i turnned it up.so i guess it does work.so far i have not change anything.it runs about 30 dollars to replace.i was wandering if anyone else is using it hear the link.let me know what you think.will post a new thread on it. ithttp://www.sicceus.com/co2.html


Frankly, running injected CO2 without a drop checker is reckless. You're lucky you didn't loose all your fish....unless you don't have any?

$30 for a cartridge? It only cost me $20 to fill a 10lb tank. In a 55g, you'll go through at least one cartridge a month at 3-5bps.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Ben, I'm not with you on this one. Not so much from personal experience but from my reading.
Drop checkers are good for giving you an idea of your CO2 levels but are not all that accurate especially if you have high CO2 demand and/or bad flow/distribution across the tank.
Where they're superb is giving you an idea of how well your system is working - especially if you have a somewhat depleted yeast bottle
What PFK advocates is either having "indicator" species in the tank or carefully observing fish behaviour - as it's difficult to measure KH accurately to determine the real CO2 concentration.
As I use DIY CO2, I'm at very little risk here but I have managed a close scrape or two when changing bottles. Typically, this would be at night so I wouldn't know the CO2 values were dropping in the first place.
CO2 is a bit of a problem in this regard. Very few people gas their fish during the day as the plants release lots of oxygen and the tank gets plenty of attention.
I've seen the Sicce in use and it works a bomb. It's for people with a bit of cash that want something elegant to provide CO2. I'd even go as far as saying that it's a great way to experience CO2 and get hooked before going for a cylinder system and don't want to go DIY - there are people like that - I respect that.
cb


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Jrman, on your 55g tank how long does your 10lb tank run before refill. Larry


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I ran a 5# CO2 tank on my 29 gallon and refilled once in three years.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

Gizmo said:


> I ran a 5# CO2 tank on my 29 gallon and refilled once in three years.


I find that hard to believe. Now I gotta go check my system for leaks!! 

20# tank feeding a 100 and 37, will last me 6 months. 37 I keep in the bright green to yellow, 100 dark green.


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## FishFlow (Sep 13, 2011)

Chris, while I agree with what you are saying, I still believe a DC is essential for anyone just getting into pressurized co2. It gives the user a ball park idea. If used correctly, is a great tool, indicator.

Aren't most pressurized co2 systems on timers to only turn on during the "day"? At any rate, mine is only on during the day and I gassed my fish during the day. 

I agree plants eat co2, but with a pressurized co2 system, it is very easy to put too much co2 into the system. I managed to gas out a 37 gal tank, heavily planted, and not many fish. (6)


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

clep.berry said:


> Ben, I'm not with you on this one. Not so much from personal experience but from my reading.
> Drop checkers are good for giving you an idea of your CO2 levels but are not all that accurate especially if you have high CO2 demand and/or bad flow/distribution across the tank.
> Where they're superb is giving you an idea of how well your system is working - especially if you have a somewhat depleted yeast bottle
> What PFK advocates is either having "indicator" species in the tank or carefully observing fish behaviour - as it's difficult to measure KH accurately to determine the real CO2 concentration.
> ...


What part are you not with me on? Running pressurized CO2 without a DC? I hope not. A DIY is different. Most DIY systems would not have enough production to even risk gassing your fish even with it letting run 24/7. You just can't compare something like a 1bps DIY to a 3-5bps rate with pressurized. These are mechanical parts involved....they will fail. A DIY fails it just stops producing. A pressurized fails, it over-produces.

If it was the length of time a cartridge is gone...its just weight (how the CO2 is measured). If it cost $20 for 10lbs and $30 for less than 8oz (or whatever size the cartridge is), I don't see what the comparison is. Costly for such a small system. Larger the tank, the higher the rate to reach the green state.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

LTruex said:


> Jrman, on your 55g tank how long does your 10lb tank run before refill. Larry


I don't have a 55, but I do have a 75g. My 10lb bottle last just shy of 3 months. This is with a 7hr lighting period, 15psi and 5-6bps.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Gizmo said:


> I ran a 5# CO2 tank on my 29 gallon and refilled once in three years.


I used a 2.5lb bottle that would last between 2-3 months on my 29g. My guess here is maybe you do not have your CO2 turned up as high or maybe your 4dkh is maybe 2-3dkh. Low kh value will change the DC color much faster. Maybe lighting period wasn't as long....mine ran 10hrs per day.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Well, I was only running about 2 bps at 10 psi, and I used a reactor, not a diffuser. 12 hr lighting cycle with 48W T5HO. Not sure if that changed anything, but I ran out about a year and a half into it and the second refill didn't run out before I decommissioned my tank.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

Ben, here's my reference:
CO2: Striking the balance | Features | Practical Fishkeeping
I can't measure pH within 0.2 100% of the time accurately.
I also know that my eyes do deceive me.
Lastly, varying levels of CO2 in a tank.
The comment you made earlier was injection - this is not only cylinder hence the comments about DIY CO2 and gassing fish. Pressurized also has leaks, end of cylinder probs etc so gassing is very much a reality.
I guess that's where the Sicce fits in though - easy enough to use with a timer, no fatal fault condition to speak of.
Inline reactors - even DIY ones are superb compared to diffusers.
Inside a tank, this design nearly gassed the fish with DIY CO2

cb


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## LTruex (Nov 8, 2012)

Thank you all for the information, and sorry about the miss informaton on tank size Jrman, and I do see where you have said the balance of CO2 is not rock solid on the chart where ph is a decided factor. Thanks again. Larry


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

yes thanks for all the input on the co2


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

The only way you would gas fish with a DIY setup is either with ganged bottles or a really small tank. I saw a guy on TPT.net that had 6 ganged, 1g bottles on a 29g and no issues, left it running 24/7, but airated the water to gas it off when the light was out. 

Typical setup will never come close to that. If someone turns their drop checker to a green or even yellow with a single DIY bottle, the fluid in the DC is not good.

What does nearly gassed the fish mean? Yellow DC? Fish on the top? My fish stay on top, but that is just because they are the type they are. And my DC turns nearly yellow, but I don't use DIY systems.


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## clep.berry (Mar 4, 2012)

1x2l bottle 15g tank, warm night ended up with baby loach experiencing complete loss of balance/lethargy lying on top of filter housing with fins exposed.
Recovered about 12 hours later so I'd say that was a very near miss.
Actual deaths recorded = 9 with 2x 12h power failures with CO2 running through an airstone back in my beginner days before joining the forum.
Since using a powerhead to control dispersal in the tank, electricity failure isn't as tragic as there's no breaking up of bubbles or dispersal in the tank as a result.
cb


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Folks, make no mistake about it. What JR is telling you about using a DC with CO2 injection is solid advice. I myself highly recommend it whether it be DIY and definately with pressurized. Sort of like the American Express card. Instead of "don't leave home without it", it's "don't run CO2 without one". 

As far as its effectiveness/accuracy, as long as you have messured 4dkH solution, it's as accurate as it gets. There's also a new standard hitting the planted community where we will actually use (2) DCs. One is messured at 4dkH and the second at 5dkH. As far as I know, this is still fairly new and uncommon but most of the big planted gurus that I know are starting to do this.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I've read a little on the 5dkh stuff but only a little. I see you can buy it already. My current system works pretty well.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

jrman83 said:


> I've read a little on the 5dkh stuff but only a little. I see you can buy it already. My current system works pretty well.


Yep. Can't get any more accurate than that. At least at this time. I haven't made it yet myself. Maybe next time I make up a batch of 4dkH, I'll also make the 5.


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