# Fish died over night. Too fast for cycling problem?



## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok. So I set up my first tank yesterday. Its a 45 gallon tank. A brand new filter system (Whisper Power Filter 60). I did a pretty decent amount of research about cycling and what not. I have reasonably noob level of understanding of cycling and what to do.

I admit I did not test my water for ammonia or nitrate levels. But in my defense I know I have from the tap un-treated, un-softened well water. I was led to believe from research and at the reassurance of the fish guy at the store that this would be ok to do a fish-in cycle.

He sold me a bottle of "Nutrafin Cycle" biological aquarium supplement, 6 stems of Wisteria plant, and 4 Gold Tetra fish, and pellet food. 

I put the plants in right away and the directed dose of the cycle fluid according to the label. put the bag of fish in the tank water and let the temp acclimate for 20 minutes or so. Then let the fish loose.

That was about 5 pm yesterday. At around 11 pm the fish were still very active and seemed happy. I put in a small pinch of the food but they were not interested. I didn't know when they were last fed at the fish store so I didn't worry too much and went to bed.

This morning at about 7 am. All 4 fish were dead.  

That seems to be too fast for Ammonia levels to be the cause right? 

Headed out to the store now to get an ammonia-nitrate test kit as all I have now is Ph test kit.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Test both tank and your source water after you get your kit.Also take a sample (1 gallon +) of source water and let it sit for 24 hours and test.Water will change(out gas) over 24 hours,so all that info will help us help you.
Next ,there is alot more to acclimate your fish to besides temp ,like pH,kH ammonia,nitrite...So I would recommend you read this link and only do drip acclimation for your fish from now on.Without your water parameters it is diffacult to nail down cause of death ,but changing fish from one water source(store probly on municipal) to yours(well) could easily cause the troubles you have.
Here's the link to drip acclimation.I always test the water fish come in and know my water and the difference between the two determines how long I drip them for(some I drip for hours(3-4).
http://www.aquariumforum.com/f2/drip-acclimating-fish-11327.html


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Find out if the shop is on the same well water supply, and if there's a difference in hardness between their tank water & yours. Shops sell people on pH, leading them to believe a pH difference is an issue when hardness is the real problem. Try to get an API Master Test kit, this will cover what you need to test, if there is a hardness difference a slower acclimation to your tank water would be in order.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Arg, CB beat me by a minute, this guy is too fast! Nice link to the drip acclimation process, I shoot for doubling the water volume every hour, for around 3 hours give or take. If the fish are on the same municipal water supply as me I don't worry about it too much, beyond that it's a series of air lines running from tanks.

If you can get some mature media, or even substrate from a tank from your local shop it will help the cycling process.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would agree that it is a little soon to see typical cycling issues to cause this death. I also agree that acclimating could have easily been your problem. I never ask what water fish or shrimp come from because I always drip acclimate them. If the species I got is a little more sensitive to those type of changes I drip for longer or I should say that is what drives how long I do it for.


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok so I just did some tests on my water. 

Ammonia is about .15 ish. Yellow color between 0 and .25 ppm

Nitrate is about 10 ppm

Ph level is a bit high right now. 7.6 But last night I tested it right before I put the fish in and it was about 6.8

The Drip acclimating thing seems a bit tedious. I definitely don't remember doing anything like that when I was younger and got new fish. But that was only a 10 gallon tank with gold fish... I wonder if there is something I can make that will do the same job but from inside the top without having another bucket and hose. Is there something about the darkness that is a key aspect of the process?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Acclimation is probly what killed your fish(the lack of) .It is necessary,but there are more automated devices to make it easier.

Reef Gently AccliMate Acclimator / Transporter Tank


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

coralbandit said:


> Acclimation is probly what killed your fish(the lack of) .It is necessary,but there are more automated devices to make it easier.
> 
> Reef Gently AccliMate Acclimator / Transporter Tank


I like that device. Seems less messy. Thanks. I think Im going to get one of those.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Drip acclimating is boring more than anything. Go watch TV, surf the net, check on them every half hour or so. For the price of a piece of air line I'll stick with that, acclimate anything from a single fish to a hundred for less than a buck.


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok so Im pretty sure there is some sort of chemical problem with my water. 

Yesterday I made an acclimation box based on a few DIY designs I researched online. Went back to the fish store and bought 5 Scissor-tail Rasbora. Did the acclimation as described by a few different sources. Once done everything seemed fine. 

Gave them a little nibble of food at the end of the night. They eat. They didnt seem stressed at all. I made special mental note of how they were acting at the store as to compare it when I got home.. Everything seemed fine. Went to bed.

This morning: 5 dead fish 

I tested the ammonia and nitrate and Ph levels. All seems fine. 
Ammonia at very close to Zero. (about 0.5 based on color)
Nitrate very close to Zero as well. 
Ph just about 7

I have a friend that works at the water company that gave me the name of a place that does chemical and bacterial testing. Going to get that done today.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

What is your ph from your tap? Can you test that and then set some water from your tap aside and test it tomorrow? You've given multiple values of your ph and it shouldn't be that way. Leaving the sample out gives time for gasses to escape and gives the true value of your ph?

Do you have a kh test kit by chance? It is possible you don't have the necessary buffers to hold your ph stable. Kh is what holds the ph steady.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Wells do need to be tested every so often, metals are a concern, among other things. This is why a water conditioner that binds metals is advised if you aren't totally confident that your well water does not have them.


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> What is your ph from your tap? Can you test that and then set some water from your tap aside and test it tomorrow? You've given multiple values of your ph and it shouldn't be that way. Leaving the sample out gives time for gasses to escape and gives the true value of your ph?
> 
> Do you have a kh test kit by chance? It is possible you don't have the necessary buffers to hold your ph stable. Kh is what holds the ph steady.


Ph levels were a bit bouncy because I used the drops in the kit try to adjust the level to proper twice since the initial tank filling. Not sure about kh. I don't have that tester. 

Water direct from the tap tests at 6.6 Ph I have a glass full in the cabinet. Ill test it again in the morning.


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok... So in doing some more research, I just realized I skipped a step in setting up my tank initially. Not sure if it important or not. 

Noob moment: I did not wash the gravel before I put it in. 

From what I have read the most of a problem I would have had is a cloudy tank. Mine wasn't too cloudy when I added the gravel right from the bag. It seems odd that there would be any toxic chemicals on it right? It is made for aquariums after all. 

Is it possible that the unwashed gravel had some sort of toxins in it? The few articles I read about others who have made the same mistake as me was just cloudy water that had to be given time to settle.


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## Tolak (Mar 10, 2013)

Trying to adjust the pH may be a big part of your problem, easy answer is don't attempt it with tap water. There are many more things behind adjusting pH than you probably want to hear about at this point, it can get pretty technical. Ignore pH at this point, hardness is more critical.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The unwashed gravel wouldn't kill your fish.Just like you said it would cloud up your tank ,maybe even settle on glass,but nothing deadly.I really think the water from you fish shop is different than your well and the change is what is causing your troule.
You really will e better off if you take a few hours acclimating your fish slowly so they can adjust.
1^ with Tolak also.DON'T adjust your pH 6.6 is fine.Adjusting it will just lead to troule,I think the hardness is more of the issue you are dealing with ,which you won't be able to adjust either.That is why acclimating slowly to the difference is important.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Did you dechlorinate your water? I could have missed that up there. Is there chlorine or chloramine in your tap water?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

SeanMcC said:


> Did you dechlorinate your water? I could have missed that up there. Is there chlorine or chloramine in your tap water?


Well water.


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## SeanMcC (Jul 5, 2013)

Guess I am to citified. Any fracking going on nearby? Have you tried lighting your water with a bic? (grin)


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Using prime(the best) or amquel will detoxify any (most) heavymetals in your well water.Without having to go to great legnths and find out what is in your water(you may never want to drink it again) get a small bottle of one of those(they are sold as dechlorinators and know you are on well),and give it a try.I can't hurt.
Also don't try to adjust your ph,it is worthless as you will not easily balance the buffing liquids to other factors and only end up with constantly changing pH.That will kill your fish too.


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## godesshunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Hey all. Just a quick update since its late and I'm tired. I talked to my land lord about our well as I have not gotten the water tested as of yet. I was hoping that there was some history of the well being tested that she could shed some light on.

Apparently most of the area of town that my house is in is built on an extremely large limestone bed. Hence why the well water is so hard. I'm not much of a geologist so I don't know much about that sort of stuff. All I know is, whatever is going on its killing my fish. 

My latest experiment: I avoided the box chains and went to a local fish shop to talk to them about whats what. They gave me a few (3) of the cheap feeder gold fish to "test the waters" so to speak. Joking that they are tough as nails and you could just throw them in a puddle in the driveway and they would be just fine. 

Long story short, I have one left. I rescued him at what looked like the last minute. and cut open a new gallon jug of spring water and dropped him in there. After a couple hours of drunken bobbing and floating around, He appears to be in much better health and swimming around happy. 

Is there any truth the the whole "spring water is too pure" thing. I'm considering going out and buying 45 gallons of spring water and pouring that into the tank. He seems happy as a pig in s... right now. My local grocery store sells the store brand for 50 cents a gallon.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Spring water is not pure water.Often it will have all sorts of stuff in it.RO/DI and distilled are pure waters.
If you can test the spring water you might use then you'll see where it is at.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

That's a big cost for weekly water changes. 

You could always look into a RODI system and add in half to your tap. I would think if the water truly is too much that after it is cut by 50% you should be okay. I use this one Aquarium Water | Reverse Osmosis | RODI Water | ReefKeeper Water | NEPTUNE 200GPD RODI With 2 Membranes & 3 DI Cartridges Aquarium Water Guru but you may not need something as big or as high production rate. If you do end up going this route try to plan for any other tanks you may have in the future and plan on 50% weekly water changes with half of what goes into your tank being water from your system.


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