# Sudden platy death



## MriGuy85

Today my red wag platy died after a routine water change and the moving of some fake plants. 

It was fine for months. Today, I tested my water and it was time do to a WC. Approx 20ppm nitrates, 0 nitrites, ammonia was at .25...(still can't figure why it's not at zero). I generally clean the crud off the substrate every other day or so depending on how much there is. It's white substrate so I like to keep it looking nice. Anyways, I went ahead and changed my water, 50%, and treated the new water with prime as I always do. I decided to move some plants around so my Corys would have a nice little area to hang out in. This loosened up a bunch more crud so I cleaned that out with my eheim quick vac pro. Only a few minutes later I saw my platy swimming awkwardly, as fish do right before they die. Sure enough, he made his way over to a back corner of the tank behind some plants, and kicked it. 

Is it possible that he just died from stress alone? He had no odd markings on him or anything to suggest disease. I did recently lose a Cory, he had pop eye from what I assumed was an injury as it was one-sided, but I can't logically connect the two deaths as they were a week apart and the platy showed absolutely no signs of stress or anything up until a couple of minutes before death.


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## jrman83

Can't speak for the Platy. Sometimes fish just die. 

Sustained periods of low ammonia can kill. Has the ammonia been present for a while? Probable causes...overfeeding, tap water has ammonia, decaying plants or fish, stock exceeds filtration, a filter issue (years ago I had a filter that the fiber filter was sort of clogged and it impeded flow and caused a small ammonia spike)....I guess there could be a few more.


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## MriGuy85

Yes, my filter appears to be under performing slightly. Tube had a bunch of gunk in them which I just cleaned out as well as the block (I did this because te canister had what sounded like trapped air in it. After cleaning the tubes and block, it has miraculously gone away  ) the floss is always nastied up though, so I'm considering ditching the floss and leaving the rest of the material. Thoughts?


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## Akinaura

What it's sounding like is you had some decaying matter under the fakey plants and that led to a small amount of hydrogen sulfide getting released into the water column. Moving your decorations and plants around more often and making sure to clean under them can help keep that from being an issue again.

As for the canister, I personally use lots of sponges and bio rings. I tend to over crowd my tanks, so I need all the extra help I can get bacteria-wise. We only use floss if we are making a DIY filter or a DIY CO2 diffuser.


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## jrman83

If your filter does not have some other form of mechanical filtration I would consider keeping the fiber filter in there and check it more often maybe. Is this something that came with it and you are supposed to replace regularly?


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## MriGuy85

It came with the filter. It also has coarse foam, ceramic rings, and bio balls. I might just replace it with quilt batting. I've tried to clean it several times and it does no good. It's so clogged that I think it's supposed to be replaced though the manual said nothing about it.

Edit to add: I went ahead and ditched the original floss. It was nasty. I had a bag of batting left over from when I originally started using e-cigs. The batting is, of course, clean and unused. I took a big wad of it and washed it in some prime treated water an then stuffed it in the top basket of my canister and topped it with some coarse foam for good measure (to make sure it doesn't get into the tank in the event that some fibers work their way loose). Sealed my o-rings with some silicone plumbers grease, plugged it back in, and BAM!!! My filter is blowing just as hard as it was on the first day i got it!!


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## coralbandit

I don't use canisters anymore ,but on my HOBs I have sponge prefilters over the intakes.It has severly cut down on my in filter maintenance.I can see the flow slow(even a little) and I know to pull sponge off and rinse.It is simple and effective,and I'll repeat ;has severly cut down on my in filter maintenance.I can't believe the crap it catches and how clean the inside of my filters stay.
I tend to agree with Akinaura on disturbing something,and think jr may be on your source of ammonia(overfeeding).


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## MriGuy85

I tend to agree. It's hard trying to figure how much to feed. With an array of top, middle, and bottom feeders its tough making sure everyone has food. I know fish are opportunistic eaters and can go for good stretches without being fed. I have a rubber lip pleco to feed now too, so i usually give small amounts of flake, a few pellets and half an algae wafer every other day. I try to vacuum the leftovers after a couple hours when nobody is eating anymore. I've also starting filling a small cap with tank water and putting the flake that I feed into that to soak up water, that way it will sink to the bottom. I feel like if I only feed every couple days, the fish will be all over it so much that the bottom feeders get nothing. I don't know what else to do :-(

I did try cutting up an old sponge filter and putting it on the end of my intake pipe, but I took it off A few minutes later....I don't know why. Just didn't look right.


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## jrman83

Amazon.com: Eheim Prefilter for Wet/ Dry Filter 2227/2229: Pet Supplies

These have an opening in the end. They are designed to go over the intakes of Eheim's wet/dry filters to keep gunk out. They fit fairly snug but will loosen up a little over time. If you post a pic of your intake I can tell you if it will fit or not. If you wanted to go with that idea, that is.

Personally, I think you may need a new filter soon. Especially so if you keep adding fish. I overfeed a lot, but never see any type of issues from it. But...I am overfiltered by quite a bit. Not sure but it could be because of my wet/dry filters. Wet/drys will decompose much faster than conventional filters...ammonium by 73%, nitrite by 67% faster.

Anyway, I think you should start to look for one that keeps you out of the woods. It sounds like your stocking choices have not helped you and we all face similar things when choosing a bunch of species of fish.

Or, you may want to consider heavy planting of your tank. Adds another spectrum or layer to your whole experience. Not sure if your tank is planted or not.


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## MriGuy85

I don't plan on replacing my filter. This one is virtually brand new and turns over 300+ gallons per hour and is rated for a tank twice the size of mine. I can't believe that I'm under filtered. I know aqadvisor isn't the be-all-end-all, but when it tells me I'm something like 130% filtered and 70% stocked, it's hard to believe that I'm significantly under filtered. Seems like most likely it's a feeding/cleaning issue that I can rectify with a bit more effort on my part. I just need to convince myself that feeding fish is not like feeding our cats. It's an unnatural feeling for me to not feed an animal every day, but I can get used to it. I'll just get some extra batteries and break out the eheim quickvac pro on the daily and reduce feeding to once every few days.


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## jrman83

Wasn't talking about replacing it. I'm saying you may need another in addition. Many of us have more than one filter on our tanks. Personally, I hate having things that "require" me to do things certain ways. This would give you more wiggle room and make sure your tank stays safe without worrying so much if you fed too much or whatever.

Just a suggestion.


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## MriGuy85

I may look into it. I do have a large HOB that came with my tank. Suppose it couldn't hurt.


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## Arthur7

I suspect included in the substrate fermentation gases have been. They are removed if the plants escaped.
For the longer-standing aquarium in the soil rot can be. That does not look it! Everything looks clean. But there are bubbles when I loose the ground. For me this is a sign that the general cleaning is necessary. The expensive filter do not change.


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## coralbandit

Possibly just less food more often?I have cories and clown loaches among other bottom feeders,and besides "pre wetting" my food I do nothing special or extra.Even trying to feed reclusive/slow fish your food should not be left over after 10 minutes.The slow deterioration of extra food definately can cause water issues and is unpredictable(why most don't fishless cycle with food anymore{you just don't know when the "rotting food" enters the water column).


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## jrman83

I put a lot of food in my tanks when I feed. A lot sits on the bottom for a little while but all of it gets eaten somehow. I know most may not, but I shut down all water movement to have better control of where the food is landing to make sure my Corys get their food. I also find that the fish eat better since they don't have to chase all over the tank.


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## MriGuy85

Ok, so I went ahead and added another filter: the marineland penguin 350 that came with the tank, but i left the biowheels off. worthless pieces of garbage if you ask me. Now at 236% filtration and stocked steadily at 91% with no more additions. Theoretically, once the bacteria inhabits the media in this filter in combination with the canister, I should super over filtered. Thanks for the suggestion, JR. I can be stubborn, and I appreciate your feedback, as always.


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## dam718

MriGuy85 said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and added another filter: the marineland penguin 350 that came with the tank, but i left the biowheels off. worthless pieces of garbage if you ask me. Now at 236% filtration and stocked steadily at 91% with no more additions. Theoretically, once the bacteria inhabits the media in this filter in combination with the canister, I should super over filtered. Thanks for the suggestion, JR. I can be stubborn, and I appreciate your feedback, as always.


Why do you think the Bio-Wheels are worthless? This is an honest question, really... I have a Penguin 150 running on my 20G and it's doing well... IMO having the Bio-Wheel allows me to change the active carbon filter media at the prescribed intervals without having to worry about losing all my beneficial bacteria, if the bio-wheel actually harbors the beneficial bacteria as advertised. It also allows me to not have to mess around with removing the inactive carbon from the filter cartridge, which I found to be fairly cumbersome with my Aqueon filters. From my research I ranked the Bio-Wheel HOB's at a close second behind the AquaClears based on what HOB I would get if I had to have one for whatever reason...


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## MriGuy85

It is my understanding that the beneficial bacteria is actually housed mainly in the filter pads themselves. I had biowheels running on my old 20g tank, and there was one day that I too rigorously cleaned my filter pads, which resulted in a mini cycle. The way I see it, if the bacteria were housed in the wheels, cleaning the pads wouldn't have resulted in the loss of my bacteria. This, in addition to hearing many users on the forum say that wheels do next to nothing, and also think about this: the water passes through the filter floss before anything else, as the manufacturer suggests that the floss side of the pad should face the back of the filter box so the water passes through the floss first.

Also, when I got my new canister filter, I took the pads out of the HOB and stuck them in one of the media trays after cutting the floss off of the plastic backing. When I did this, my filter was instantly seeded...no cycle or mini cycle took place. 

By the way, when I get cartridges the first thing I do is empty out that carbon. That stuff is useless as well unless you're using it to filter out medications from the water column. 

In the HOB I just put on the tank, I slit open the top of the floss, dumped out the carbon and packed it with more floss that I had laying around (from a bag of quilt batting).

As taught to me by coralbandit, jrman, majerah, and others: one should not have to replace the filter pads/floss until it is falling apart. This leads me to believe that most of the BB is living in the filter floss. All that is necessary is a periodic swish in removed tank water to clean some of the muck off the pads.

If I missed something or am not conveying these ideas correctly, please someone jump in.


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## dam718

Thanks for the input! Do you run 1 or 2 filter pads in the penguin? There is a second groove to add a second filter pad on the 150 (I assume most of them are like this?)... Maybe the wheel does nothing? I'll leave it in there... I did plan on removing the carbon after the first month and leaving the pad in place, adding a second pad and allowing the old pad to seed the new one... And just replace one at a time so I always have a seeded pad in place. Pretty interesting how much "useless" stuff is out there... One thing I can say about the Marineland HOB's is they are MUCH more quiet than the Aqueon "QuietFlow" HOB's... Whoever came up with that name, "QuietFlow" should be slapped...


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## MriGuy85

Well in the 350 that I just put on I have one cartridge in each side. It's a large one so it has room for four cartridges. In the smaller one I had on my 20 I put as many in it as it would hold, but I had too many fish for my little 20 so I needed all the help I could get. But, I did stuff extra batting in the cartridges that I have newly placed effectively making them four cartridges in two.

Just like any other type of sales, there are a lot of products on the market for aquariums that are useless. I mean, carbon isn't 100% useless, but if you use it to clean meds out of the tank and then fail to remove them from your filter they will begin to leach those contaminants back into the water. So I never use carbon for more than a week or so then toss it. 

Recently, I discovered those feeding tablets designed for vacations to be useless. My fish didnt touch it and it started to decay. Ew!

I think the HOBs can be quiet if you have the water level just above the output of the filter. I have enough surface disturbance to where I don't need my filter dropping the water into the tank. If you don't, then it doesn't hurt to create that surface movement.

Again, save yourself the money: get your cartridges in and seeded, ditch the carbon, and don't replace them until they are literally falling apart. I mean, if money is no issue then it's no issue, but I don't like to throw money in the trash, so I keep my pads in place and just clean them slightly in old tank water.


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## MriGuy85

Um, this may sound odd, but after adding this second filter, my tank is suddenly much more active! The cories are all swimming with each other all over the tank, and so are all the others. Could a second filter and increased water flow do this? This is great!


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## jrman83

Hope it helps out.

The only purpose those bio wheels serve is bio filtration. Unless you are having problems with them I would consider keeping them on there. Anything in the filter that allows for more bacteria colonization has to help. I have read many people that swear by them.


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## Nancyg

I have two red wag platys and two sunset wag platys. The sunset ones are both girls and the reds are one girl and one boy. One of each kind (the girls) had these weird spots on their head area. On 5-17-17 the sunset girl died.  On the next day (5-18-17) the red girl died.  What is wrong I suspect the black dots.


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