# plant problem



## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

I have a 55 gal planted tank, substrate is peat moss, sand,and gravel. I use 2 48 inch t-8's, no filter and don't use any ferts. the water looks crystal clear.


Tank has been planted and filled for a week, and all my plants are turning brown.. I have ammonia levels straight out of tap is .5, and there is no fish in yet. Do I need ferts?? Will putting fish in help with the fert problem??? Should I pull out plants that are dead and dying????


I don't think I washed them like I should have, could that cause much problems.. I want to put fish in tomorrow.. Should I wait?? I got snails with the plants by accident should I try to get rid of the snails????


Thanks for any advise!!!!!!!!!


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## Big Dog (May 17, 2010)

mike 1980 said:


> I have a 55 gal planted tank, substrate is peat moss, sand,and gravel. I use 2 48 inch t-8's, no filter and don't use any ferts. the water looks crystal clear.
> 
> 
> Tank has been planted and filled for a week, and all my plants are turning brown.. I have ammonia levels straight out of tap is .5, and there is no fish in yet. Do I need ferts?? Will putting fish in help with the fert problem??? Should I pull out plants that are dead and dying????
> ...



What gave you the idea to use peat moss, sand,and gravel as a substrate? How much do you know about keeping a planted aquarium? What type of fertilizer are you using for your plants? What are your test levels showing? 

This will help me out more if you can give me this info.*c/p*

Check out the photo gallery to see some of my planted aquariums.


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

I read about the idea from this website. I read that a tank can be self supporting with lots of plants and low maintenance. I don't use fertilizers, but am not against using them if needed. I only know that ammonia levels at beginning was .5 I am getting it tested tommarow but hopefully its at 0 because of all the plants. 

Your tanks look amazing what is your setup. I have a 30 gal. with only gravel substrate. It has a ugf , hob and already has fish in it.. It only has 4 real plants in it, but they look great. I'm thinking I need to add fish tomorrow so they start fertilizing the plants naturally.?.? 


I am getting master test kit to do all the tests but its not in yet..


Thanks


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## danilykins (Dec 22, 2010)

you haven't mentioned anything about lighting... what kind of lights are you using? are you using Co2?


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

I use 2 48 inch t-8's, thats 72 total watts and 6500 k. I have them turned 10 -12 hours a day. no I do not use co2.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

What type of plants are they?Brown tells me they are not getting the light they need,or are drowning,but that also depends on what they are.


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## Big Dog (May 17, 2010)

What you got your self into is a real big mess. If I was you. I would remove all the substrate from your setup and clean the aquarium out real good. Then I would add Eco-complete about 3 bags should do it. Then I will be happy to send you some free plants to get you started on the right track to having a real nice planted aquarium. Just cover the shipping and packing cost is all I ask for. You must first show pictures of you cleaning out the aquarium. You will be so much happier. Trust me on this one. I have helped so many people in the past with what you just did with your aquarium.

Big Dog


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

Well I am kinda shocked... What is eco-complete?? Is it coconut fiber?? I use eco-earth for my hermit crabs. Do you use filters in your tank?? If so what kind?? I am really surprised on your reactions I thought I was doing it the right way..can you tell me more details on your method?? I just want a low maintenance easy to take care of tank.. 

In the tank now I have anarchids that look half dead, amazon micro narrow leaf sword that looks like grass, it came in a pot but I took it out and planted it.. It looks really bad!! Its weird Its almost like some plants are over shadowing others. Some plants look good and others not so good. But they all have at least a little brown on the leaves. I don't know the name of all the plants, but I think they are all low light ones.


Thanks!!!!


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

CaribSea Planted Aquarium | Eco-Complete Planted | Eco-Complete Red | Floramax

I use filters in mine and have the peat on the bottom,then topped with the voodoo river substrate,made by the same company as the eco complete.The only real difference is the eco complete has some supposed goodies for plants,and doesnt need to be rinsed.There is a balance to a planted tank,and even if you have the best substrate,the plants wont make it without the right lighting ferts and even temp.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Why would it be necessary to pull it all out? Quite a few people on this site have this setup.


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

Well I tested today and still have ammonia levels at .5.... The tank has been full for 10 days...Shouldn't my plants be bringing that down???????

*Should I pull dead and dying plants out?? 
*Do I need ferts?? Will putting fish in help with the fert problem???


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## Rob72 (Apr 2, 2011)

i have the same set up 1 inch peat moss, 1 inch sand and gravel and have no problems, my ammonia is 0, i ahve about 10 plants in it and a huge peice of driftwood, my levels are good


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Microsword grow best in high light.The anacharis does as well.I think the issue you are having is the amonia is from the dead leaves.The lights would fall in the low range.Those plants dont necessarily need fertz,but root tabs will help the swords.The beaslbob build way is only sucessful if you have a balanced system.You need tons of fast growing stems and good lighting.Now you can grow crypts java fern and anubias in there with the lighting you have,and theres others as well.

PlantGeek.net - Plant Guide
This will help you figure out some good plants to start off with in your setup.


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## Suenell (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a 55g with smooth, natural river gravel (about the size of the end of my little finger). Eventually I'm going to work some smaller substrate in there to strengthen the roots around those pebbles. 

I have 2 hoods with 2 fluorescent plant lights each & using no special co2 aeration but have 2 double filters hanging on the back & some kind of internal pump (shown on the right wall) that provides a bit of extra aeration.

As far as I know by the little plant stakes I saved, I still have Giant Hygrophylia corymbosa (growing the best in the back), Wisteria (Hygrophilia difformis) on the left side of the tank, Cryptocoryne wendtii, (Moneywort wouldn't grow), Aponogeton bulbs, and Nymphaea Lily bulbs.








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## Big Dog (May 17, 2010)

I like the Eco-complete. It works great on my plants and I have yet to ever run into a problem with the stuff. If you like going the way you are that is fine. Just more to deal with. Just wait to you have to pull up some plants or even worse have to remove the stuff. Some of my friends did this type of planted substrate. When they got a look at my planted aquariums they all went to Eco-complete. One of them works with the state I live in to help keep our lakes in good shape. He said he would never go back to doing this again.


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## Suenell (Mar 26, 2011)

Yeah that peat will come up with roots. Will gases build up in peat or sand if it's too deep?


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree,eco is much neater.But if you dont plan to move the tank,then its ok to do the other stuff.Of course if you do move its not too pricey to replace the peat and sand,and the gravel you can rinse.

I think you can poke the substrate with something to help control gasses,but thats a question for beasl,who I am surprised has not been to this thread just yet.


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Big Dog said:


> What you got your self into is a real big mess. If I was you. I would remove all the substrate from your setup and clean the aquarium out real good.


Forgive me, but I have to ask WHY?

OP's choice of substrate is just fine actually.

Plants turning brown and dieing could be due to several things in this tank. I'll start with the light in that you're just over 1wpg which is hardly anything. With no stocking in the tank, there is no food for the plants at all. I definately recommend looking into dosing ferts.

Now let's talk about the plants. What type do you have in there?


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

Big Dog said:


> What you got your self into is a real big mess. If I was you. I would remove all the substrate from your setup and clean the aquarium out real good.


Forgive me, but I have to ask WHY?

OP's choice of substrate is just fine actually.

Plants turning brown and dieing could be due to several things in this tank. I'll start with the light in that you're just over 1wpg which is hardly anything. With no stocking in the tank, there is no food for the plants at all. I definately recommend looking into dosing ferts.

Now let's talk about the plants. What type do you have in there?

* EDIT * Just saw where you listed a couple of the plants. Definately need a higher light source.


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

James0816 said:


> Forgive me, but I have to ask WHY?
> 
> OP's choice of substrate is just fine actually.
> 
> ...




So do I need to leave them on longer or do I need to upgrade my lights to like a t- 12 (if there is such a thing)???????

Also what temp is best for plants??

Can I use salt??

Is it ok for plants to touch the heater??

Thanks


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mike 1980 said:


> Well I am kinda shocked... What is eco-complete?? Is it coconut fiber?? I use eco-earth for my hermit crabs. Do you use filters in your tank?? If so what kind?? I am really surprised on your reactions I thought I was doing it the right way..can you tell me more details on your method?? I just want a low maintenance easy to take care of tank..
> 
> In the tank now I have anarchids that look half dead, amazon micro narrow leaf sword that looks like grass, it came in a pot but I took it out and planted it.. It looks really bad!! Its weird Its almost like some plants are over shadowing others. Some plants look good and others not so good. But they all have at least a little brown on the leaves. I don't know the name of all the plants, but I think they are all low light ones.
> 
> ...


I would try adding another 4' 2 tube fixture.

IMHO one of ther reasons I use a mix of plants is sometimes some will do well and other won't. Which seems to be true in your case.

Try another light and see how things are.

Also after a week try a few fish. I use 1 for every 10g for the first fish.

And the first week I don't add food then more fully stock up the tank and start very light feeding.


Hopefully things will settle down and start looking awesome soon.


my .02


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

mike 1980 said:


> So do I need to leave them on longer or do I need to upgrade my lights to like a t- 12 (if there is such a thing)???????
> 
> Also what temp is best for plants??
> 
> ...


T-12's are actually a step down from T8s. T8s are fine as long as you get a good enough wattage. However, they will consume more energy than that of a T5 bulb. 

Temps can range in the mid 70s with no issue.

No salt!

And yes, plants can touch the heater as long as it's not too hot. ;o)


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## Suenell (Mar 26, 2011)

My plants touch my heater but the water movement doesn't let them lay across the tube for long.


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

Well I went shopping today for another fixture. I found ecolux lights they are 40 watts and 1900 lumens,would 2 of these be efficient??? The package says its for aquarium plants. I think it was a t-12, and James0816 said that is a step down. I thought maybe it was a special light.?.? It will be hard to hang another fixture. So if this wont work I was thinking of adding some clamp on work lights.


Thanks


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## James0816 (Jun 19, 2009)

quick question...are you running an open top?

you can get creative with shop lights and vanity lights if you do. Most of my tanks are open and i use many shop lights. Much cheaper too.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Mike

look for 6500K (color temperature) lights. Some plant lights are much lower then that.

my .02


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

James0816 said:


> quick question...are you running an open top?
> 
> you can get creative with shop lights and vanity lights if you do. Most of my tanks are open and i use many shop lights. Much cheaper too.




Yes I have an open top. I do have a Plexiglas top, but I haven't been putting it on anyway.


I like the shop light idea. Although I just read Nurse Plattys thread on homemade hoods. I think that looks easy enough..

So what do you thunk about the t-12 1900 lumen?? is that not an option??? Cause if I can just leave the fixture and change the bulbs it would be great.

The tank has been filled for almost 2 weeks, and I just put fish in today so hopefully the plants will get fertilized. 3 plattys, and 2 clown loaches. hopefully the clowns will eat the snails.


Thanks


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

beaslbob said:


> Mike
> 
> look for 6500K (color temperature) lights. Some plant lights are much lower then that.
> 
> my .02




The aquarium light I saw today didn't say anything about k's, just said 1900 lumens and 40 watts, witch is more wattage. I wasn't sure about the 1900 lumens. Or what lumens are for that matter. I was going to buy a second fixture today, but wasn't sure about how to hang 2 lights But I am really leaning to the Nurse Platty home made hood method.


Thanks


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

mike 1980 said:


> The aquarium light I saw today didn't say anything about k's, just said 1900 lumens and 40 watts, witch is more wattage. I wasn't sure about the 1900 lumens. Or what lumens are for that matter. I was going to buy a second fixture today, but wasn't sure about how to hang 2 lights But I am really leaning to the Nurse Platty home made hood method.
> 
> 
> Thanks


Lumens are the scientific measure of light intensity weighted to what the human eye responds too.

PAR is a measure of light weighted to what plants respond too.

I think if you check out home depot or lowe's you will find 4' tubes that say right on the end 6500K. Others are 4100k and 3300 lumens. the 6500k look better with a bluer crisper light. 4100k is more warmer,red,orangie.

my .02


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## Agia (May 8, 2011)

Three days without any posts and I have to say my curiosity is peaked. A lot of debate on the different things but one question I still haven't seen the answer to is what plants are you using? I am asking as a note that they are obviously more difficult to deal with and I will want to stay away from them for my first build. Curiosity has me wondering just what water you used? Tap with conditioner to make it aquarium safe? Rainwater? Distilled? I have seen a lot of things online and as I said a lot of debate so trying to get an idea of the issues. Hoods are nice but at the same time I have noticed they don't allow breathing. They trap gases to an extent so you really need to have it setup just right. Well thats what I would think at least. If your plants are producing a lot of gases and you have a hood/lid then you need to have things that are converting the gases back? 

Well back to the question I really want the answer to. What plants have you put in this tank that have given you so much trouble and has the addition of the fish helped at all with the situation?


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## mike 1980 (Apr 9, 2011)

Agia said:


> Three days without any posts and I have to say my curiosity is peaked. A lot of debate on the different things but one question I still haven't seen the answer to is what plants are you using? I am asking as a note that they are obviously more difficult to deal with and I will want to stay away from them for my first build. Curiosity has me wondering just what water you used? Tap with conditioner to make it aquarium safe? Rainwater? Distilled? I have seen a lot of things online and as I said a lot of debate so trying to get an idea of the issues. Hoods are nice but at the same time I have noticed they don't allow breathing. They trap gases to an extent so you really need to have it setup just right. Well thats what I would think at least. If your plants are producing a lot of gases and you have a hood/lid then you need to have things that are converting the gases back?
> 
> Well back to the question I really want the answer to. What plants have you put in this tank that have given you so much trouble and has the addition of the fish helped at all with the situation?




Actually, things have gotten lots better, I think I just needed add fish to fertilize the plants. I also put some root tabs in, that seemed to help. The plants are looking great.. I took out the micro narrow leaf sword, because it looked terrible. but the vals, amazon sword, crypts,and onion plants look great now. there are a few others but I can't remember the names. I have a Plexiglas cover for tank but do not use it. As far as the water goes, I used un-treated tap water. The reason I didn't treat it is because its well water, and I let it sit for like 10 days before I added fish. The fish in there now are doing fine I just feel bad about not feeding for the first week, they have started to eat the pieces of dead plants in the tank. I think tomorrow I will add a couple algae eaters.


Now the only bad thing going on is the algae on the front of the glass. Hope I answered all Q's, good luck with your tank!!!!!!!:fish-in-bowl:


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Agia said:


> Three days without any posts and I have to say my curiosity is peaked. A lot of debate on the different things but one question I still haven't seen the answer to is what plants are you using? I am asking as a note that they are obviously more difficult to deal with and I will want to stay away from them for my first build. Curiosity has me wondering just what water you used? Tap with conditioner to make it aquarium safe? Rainwater? Distilled? I have seen a lot of things online and as I said a lot of debate so trying to get an idea of the issues. Hoods are nice but at the same time I have noticed they don't allow breathing. They trap gases to an extent so you really need to have it setup just right. Well thats what I would think at least. If your plants are producing a lot of gases and you have a hood/lid then you need to have things that are converting the gases back?
> 
> Well back to the question I really want the answer to. What plants have you put in this tank that have given you so much trouble and has the addition of the fish helped at all with the situation?


I use straight untreated tap water for all my tanks. And do no water changes, just replace evaporative loss with straight untreated tap water.

What I do is heavily plant the tank during the initial setup and let it set for a week so the plants condition the water. Then add fish slowly.

I know this is not because of some super special tap water because I have done this in many cities in the US as I was transferred around in the Air Force.

IME the best possible water condition is live gorwing thriving plant life.


my .02


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