# Male Anthias fin turning black



## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I've had this guy along with 5 females for about 8 months now in my 180 gallon. I just noticed the fin under his body has a little black coloring on the end and was wondering if i should be worried. My water parameters are perfect...not perfect because i think so but because I know so. Any suggestions?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Watch em, at this point the fin looks intact, and not eating away.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

How do I fix the problem?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Being as I don't think its a fungus at this point, just keep an eye on him. I wouldn't do anything at this point.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

Cool, thanks


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

The fin looks about the same but now he's acting differently. He's swimming to the top of the tank like he's trying to get air then spits a couple bubbles out. He's doing it a lot...can't figure out what's wrong with this guy. Suggestions?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Parameters?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

coralbandit said:


> Parameters?


Same answer as CB. Gotta have the numbers at this point.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

1.025, cal 430, alk 9, nitrates 0, phosphate .10, ph 8.2, no traces of ammonia, temp 75.8


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

What type of filter are you using that you manage 0 no3?I have 0 very often but use bio plastics,huge (40g volume)sump and a 29 g full of calurpae for a 75 g tank.
Your numbers seem excellent.You have never seen this behavior before?
How often do you feed your anthias as they desire almost"constant" feeding,and what do you feed them?
They say ,although the harem is desired, that often the male will expend a tremdous amount of energy chasing his ladies and keeping any of them from becoming dominant and changing into a male(rival).
Have you lost any females since original stocking?
I've seen photos of anthias with black coloring on their pectoral fins,like yours looked.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I have a reef octopus protein skimmer, fluval canister filter and media reactor for everything else. I feed them periodically between 4pm and 9pm. I do a larger feeding at 4 for all the other fish then smaller feedings till 9 just for them as they are usually on the upper half of the tank. I haven't lost any females and they all look great...he's the only one that's got the black on his fin and acting differently.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I feed them mysis shrimp. They don't seem to like the pellet food


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Do you have to "buff" often to keep pH up?


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

Never, I do a 55 gallon water change per week. Seems to work


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Welp, its been known these guys have high metabolisms and should be fed small amounts several times a day. 
Next, now that we see more symptoms, he may have a bacterial infection and need treatment.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Noochy12 said:


> Never, I do a 55 gallon water change per week. Seems to work


55g a week??? How big is your tank again??? WOW


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

O.K. i was going on lack of o2, as if you had to buff regulary then co2 would be a contibuting factor to the lowering of pH.Changing aprox.33% a week we'll never know ,UNLESS you have an o2 test kit?I know that's right out there, but since I do actually have one it's worth a shot?


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I don't have an o2 tester but I can have my LFS check it tomorrow. Odd that it's just him isn't it?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It is odd that it's just him and wouldn't consider my thought to strongly.It truely goes against my very being to suggest ,but how long can you go without doing waterchange before your numbers become concerning?
I keep both fresh and salt and get to change all too much water in my fresh so if I don't have to(the numbers make the call for me) I don't change water in salt till nitrates get over 30.I can sometimes go for months if my bio plastics are functioning well,but when I just changed them(first time since starting them) my no3 went up to 40 in a week and I had to do my changes.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I've never gone more than 2 weeks so I don't really know how long I can go. Could it have something to do with activated carbon or GFO? I'm using both to maintain my phosphates at .10. I started using them around 2 months ago so it is kind of around the same time all this started.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

The GFO is good stuff as far as I know,but with the amount of waterchanges you do,a decent protien skimmer what purpose does the activatedd carbon serve?
I don't use any carbon and I know madness has links to carbon be associated with HLLE(head lateral line erosion).I would consider discontinueing the carbon or use as needed and certainly not 24/7.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I only ran carbon for about a week then went strictly with GFO but for some reason added carbon this morning (just took it out). The GFO was working fine alone. I have noticed that 2 females aren't complying like they used to...instead of swimming away immediately when he goes after them they give him a hard time. Maybe he's stressed from that?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It is possible with 5 females and 1 male that one or more of the girls may like to be a boy?That indeed would add stress on your guy.Like I said I read of many issues occuring with the harem technique ,usually slowly killing the girls or just the guy and one of the girls takes his place.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

It must be stress from the females because my water is good. I'll just wait it out and hopefully everything will work out. I appreciate the help


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Are any of the females close to the males size?And by chance are the two girls who are noncompliant the largest ?


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

They are noticeably smaller than him but the biggest of females and one does have a longer dorsal fin as though it wants to be a male but it's been like that for 4-5 months?


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

The "female" with the longer dorsal is likely a sub-dominant male, who may or may not be stressing the dominant male out. That, or another stressor to his dominance may be causing him to color-morph (black-tinged fin). Maybe one of his girls wants to move up in the ranks into the sub-dominant male, so she's attempting to overthrow the king. His odd swimming behavior is likely a displacement activity. By that I mean that specific swimming pattern represents an intervention or behavior that takes place in the wild, and he's just compelled to do it. My guess is that he's demonstrating dominance, or attempting to call more females into his harem, or even attempting to challenge his rival. If he acts stressed it's cuz he probably is, as his interventions and coping mechanisms are of no use to him in a fish tank. 

I tend to let things play out as they will in my tank because I absolutely hate tearing apart my reef trying to catch a damn fish. But it would be interesting to see what would happen if you removed the sub-dominant male, (I'm being presumptuous I know), and also the most dominant female.

It just doesn't look to me like there is anything wrong with his fin, per say. I think he has an ego infection.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

Just saw 3 females pin him to the substrate in the corner of the tank so definitely because of them...not looking too good for him. Even the smallest female isn't backing down anymore.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)




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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

They may kill him!This is definately one of the issues I read about with the harem technique.I only recently read this as I am interested in anthias and actually thought I might get one as the end of my reading lead me to believe that having just one really might have been the best set up.
One or more of the females is going to change or wanting to change , and even if they don't physiscally kill him(they might), the effort he is putting out to keep dominance will wear him thin and kill him eventually.
Sorry to hear about this ,you should try to re home him and make plans for the surviving females as well.


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## Noochy12 (May 27, 2011)

I'm going to try and get them out as soon as I can, which may take a while but looks like its my only option


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Good luck with this and sorry as keeping a school of anthias for 8 months is a pretty good job.In my previous post I mentioned re homing ,but failed to mention in the same reading that the author did say that he has managed to keep 1 pair (male & female) as it is less work for the male and the female would have no outside influence to want to change(being surrounded by other females).So maybe just rehome the largest females,leaving him with the smallest female.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

coralbandit said:


> Good luck with this and sorry as keeping a school of anthias for 8 months is a pretty good job.In my previous post I mentioned re homing ,but failed to mention in the same reading that the author did say that he has managed to keep 1 pair (male & female) as it is less work for the male and the female would have no outside influence to want to change(being surrounded by other females).So maybe just rehome the largest females,leaving him with the smallest female.


That's what I'd do.


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## Goby (Mar 21, 2012)

How did this story end? Does anyone know?


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