# Beaslbob build algae problem



## Leopard Gecko (May 9, 2011)

I have a 75 gallon planted tank. The substrate is river clay with pool filter sand on top. I do have a filter (filstar xp4 w/ a good uvc filter) and I do a water change every few weeks so it isn't exactly the same as a beaslbob build. I have had a lot of trouble with green hair algae and also some grayish thread algae. 

How do I grow plants without algae taking over? I assume I should use less light but how do I figure out how much? Is lots of algae expected in a Beaslbob type tank?


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## navigator black (Jan 3, 2012)

It'd be interesting to know what fish are in there - just in terms of bioload.

The substrate doesn't make it a 'beaslbob build', as what you are doing was around long before any such approaches were on the net. I read a book on the set-up and tried it out when I was a teenager in the 1970s. You sound like you have a pretty standard set-up for a 'plants first' tank. 

I'll defer to the plant guys like except to say that in my fish-first world, the two types of algae you are describing can be a pain in some of my tanks. I do weekly 25% water changes, and find that when the green hair algae (great fry cover) becomes a problem, manual removal and an increase in changes to 40% beat it back for a while. It tends to (logically) pop up in crowded grow-out tanks with a heavy bioload/nutrient load. More fry survive in a green hair algae tank, so more bioload develops, and more algae develops - it's a spiral.
The greyish stuff vanishes with cleaner water. I find that easy to eliminate, and not just control. I've only seen that after trips - when I've been away a couple of weeks with no water changes.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the plant oriented aquarists have to say though.


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

I had a problem with hair algae when I was cycling my 10 gallon with pond snails. After getting some advice I went to my lfs and they recommended (along with a couple people on the forum) Flourish excel, which is made by seachem. It worked for me, I saw most of the algae gone in a few weeks and it helped plant grow too. Although currently I am not using it.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Leopard Gecko said:


> I have a 75 gallon planted tank. The substrate is river clay with pool filter sand on top. I do have a filter (filstar xp4 w/ a good uvc filter) and I do a water change every few weeks so it isn't exactly the same as a beaslbob build. I have had a lot of trouble with green hair algae and also some grayish thread algae.
> 
> How do I grow plants without algae taking over? I assume I should use less light but how do I figure out how much? Is lots of algae expected in a Beaslbob type tank?


lots of algae is not expected.

what I do is kill the lights until the algae dies off. And very rarely have to do it again. Then resume and adjust lighting to where the plant grow (longer) but not the algae (shorter).

[edit]and stop adding food during the blackout as well and adjust feeding after the blackout as well as lighting. [/edit]

On some tanks I also used ferris gluconate also from your local drug store. A tablet dessolved in an old soda bottle (12-20oz) then adding a capful or so each week. the idea is that under some conditions it is possible the plants are iron limited.

just my .02


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## Leopard Gecko (May 9, 2011)

@navigator black:
I have 10 rasboras, 7 corydoras, 3 otocinclus, 5 tetras, and some trumpet snails.

So when you have greyish thread algae, you're able to kill it by doing a few water changes? How long does that take?

@jbrown5217:
I didn't check the price on flourish excel but I assume it would be too expensive to use on a 75 gallon.

@beaslbob:
How many hours per day do you suggest starting the lights at? Should I leave them on an hour longer each day until some algae begins to grow and then back off an hour?


Thanks for all the help


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Leopard Gecko said:


> ...
> 
> @beaslbob:
> How many hours per day do you suggest starting the lights at? Should I leave them on an hour longer each day until some algae begins to grow and then back off an hour?
> ...


I would would kill off the algae with a blackout. [edit]and stop adding food during the blackout. [/edit]

then try say 8-10 hours or so of lighting. And give a few days before making changes.

but that said you idea is adjusting the lighting does appear to be a good method after the algae has died off.[edit] and adjust feeding as well.[/edit]

what I hear can happen is that sometimes a tank becomes nitrate starved and cyano type "algae" steps up which can fix nitrogen gas. the idea is to let that die off returning nitrogen the plants need.


Still just my .02


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

You could always invest in a cleanup crew. Shrimp make short work of most forms of algae


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## jbrown5217 (Nov 9, 2011)

Leopard Gecko said:


> @navigator black:
> I have 10 rasboras, 7 corydoras, 3 otocinclus, 5 tetras, and some trumpet snails.
> 
> So when you have greyish thread algae, you're able to kill it by doing a few water changes? How long does that take?
> ...


On the bottle it says that it treats 100 gallons for 1 - 2 months and the price is $10 for the bottle I have (16.9 fl oz).

or you can go all out and buy 67.6 fl oz for $32.

Seachem Flourish Excel | ThatPetPlace.com

In all honesty its not that expensive.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Why not start with telling everyone what light you have? Killing the lights is not the answer unless the tank is completely overrun with algae or the water is green. I also wouldn't consider any algae eating critters until after it is under control. Just don't believe that they will magically keep your tank free of algae. That can only be done by good light control.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I agree, we need to know what light you have and how long you leave them on, or are you using natural light?

I have done experiments with things like river clay, and currently have a 90 gallon tank set up with mineralized topsoil from the garden. I think substrates like these can be among the best for growing plants but they are also a little unpredictable because unlike commercial substrates we don't know the exact composition. I think sometimes an excess of nutrients are released when it is first set up. Several large water changes helps to flush them out. Make sure there are plenty of plants to out compete the algae. Vals are good for this type of setup. Sometimes water circulation helps, if the tank doesn't have already, consider adding a filter, air stone or power head at least short term. Keep removing it manually. Chances are the tank will settle down and algae will stop being such a problem after a while.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

beaslbob said:


> I would would kill off the algae with a blackout.
> 
> then try say 8-10 hours or so of lighting. And give a few days before making changes.
> 
> ...


woopsies.

Forgot to mention that during the initial blackout also stop adding food to the tank. *old dude

then adjust both lighting and feeding after that.

sorry


still just.


.02


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## Leopard Gecko (May 9, 2011)

I guess I assumed since I have a 75 gallon, I would use flourish too quickly but I never checked how much it costed. Now that I've checked, I might start using it. 

I've heard moss and java ferns sometimes have trouble with flourish? I have both. Would they be fine as long as I only use half of what the instructions recommend?



The tank was started last summer so it's well established. My tank ended up with tons of algae because I left my lights on for 14 hours per day for a while. I thought it would make my plants grow faster and didn't think about algae. I'm sure my 3 otocinclus and snails enjoy the extra food but they definitly can't control the algae.

I have 4 T12 bulbs: 2 6,000K (or maybe they're 6500) and 2 GE plant + aquarium bulbs.


Before I ended up with an algae problem, I had one of each type of bulb on for 8 hours. The other two were only on for a couple hours a day.


How long of a blackout do you reccomend? (I'm not sure how long my fish should go without food)


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Leopard Gecko said:


> I guess I assumed since I have a 75 gallon, I would use flourish too quickly but I never checked how much it costed. Now that I've checked, I might start using it.
> 
> I've heard moss and java ferns sometimes have trouble with flourish? I have both. Would they be fine as long as I only use half of what the instructions recommend?
> 
> ...


Fish can go weeks with no food being added. I routinely not feed for a week or two with no fish losses. 

What can happen in tanks is they become nitrogen starved. As in ammonia and nitrates are unmeasureable. But phosphates (which food is loaded with) are still not being fully consumed by the plants. Various forms of "plant life" (cyano bacteria for instance) can get their nitrogen from the nitrogen gas in the water column. So with enough light they are not nitrogen starved and bloom. Which can further rob the plants of needed phosphates.

By "shocking" the tank with a blackout and not adding food, the algae dies off and returns nitrogen (nitrates) back to the system for the plants. 
Then by adjusting lighting and feeding the system can remain in balance (under plant control) indefinately.


just my .02


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Typical tanks do not become nitrogen starved and very few actuallyget cyano. Although if using the methods you use, not the build, they can certainly experience it I would assume. If the plants are healthy and thriving, then the tank cannot be fully nitrogen starved, although they can look pretty terrible and still growing.

I'm not sure how if algae uses minuscule amounts of nitrate or nitrogen to grow (therefore never really competing with plants, as eveidenced by things like algae that grows on a tree because it stays moist all the time) do you "return" very much at all, if any, nitrogen back to the tank for plants to use.

Cyano is not a form of plant life although it may contain chlorophyl and gets its energy from it.

Go to any planted site on the web and ask how you control algae. It is not by doing blackouts.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Not all algae is the same, I think blackouts work well for cyano, but not for green hair algae. This my experience which is what I'm basing that on:

The bad cyano outbreak I experienced was in a lightly planted tank. I mostly put it down to leaving the lights on for too long. The fish load was also high (due to an emergency situation). There was a very good filter so ammonia and nitrites were not a problem but nitrates were a bit high. A short blackout got rid of a lot of it though not all, I reduced the light and upped water changes after that and the rest of the cyano went away. Cyanobacteria of course is not algae but we tend to put it in the same group for the purpose of discussing pest algae in out tanks.

When I had a brackish tank I couldn't find plants that would grow so I let green hair algae grow as part of the scape (surprisingly it looked nice). The tank then lay empty for several months with a sheet over the tank. This wasn't a complete blackout, still it would have killed almost any plant. When I took the sheet off the algae looked happy as ever which makes me think that it would withstand any blackout better than plants. In planted tanks I have found that it can be kept bellow nuisance through competition from plants the right balance of light and manual removal. Once the main reason for the outbreak has been solved algae eaters can also help but they wont keep up with it if it is still growing faster than them.


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