# Newbie 15 Gallon Tank Problems



## goldentipz (May 22, 2011)

Hello,

I am a new tropical fish owner from the UK, having kept goldfishes as a child in the past.

I am having my fair share of problems and am doing a fish-in cycle.

Here is the info on my setup:


Fishbox 60 cm Tank by Interpet 64 litres - apprx 15 US gallons
Interpet Deltatherm Heater 150w
Interpet Internal Power Filter - PF2
3 plants - can't remember the names but they are two long ones and a short one
Black gravel
Small sea shell decor - has air bubble feature
Building monument decor - has air bubble feature
Interpet Filter Aid 100ml
Interpet Tapsafe
Interpet Airvolution Aquarium Mini Air Pump with tubes
General cleaning stuff like bucket, jug, net, gravel cleaner

Events:
*On Fri 20/05* I setup my tank without fish or plants or decor and left it running with lights, heater, filter, washed gravel. I put tapsafe and filter aid also in the water. My water was clearish for a time and then cloudy.

*On Sat 21/05* I went to my local aquarium centre and bought five hardy Harlequin Rasboras fish all from the same tank, plus plants, decor and cleaning equipment. 

The journey home lasted no more than 30 mins, and first potted the decor and put the plants in the gravel. I then let the bag with the fish float in the water for say 10 mins, then opened the bag added water from the tank into the bag and let them sit for 5 mins in the bag. I then used a net to take the fish out and discarded of the bag and water that they came in.

Before I put everything in my water was cloudy and after my water was also cloudy. The fish seemed to lay low but then came out huddled together and swimming around exploring the tank - this was late afternoon.

I realised at one point that the filter bubbles seemed to powerful a current for them, so adjusted this to slow them down as they kept getting blown away by it. Towards the night they seemed ok and were swimming less fast but active.

As directed by the shop I didn't feed them today as they were fed that morning and he said feeding once a day tomorrow is fine.
*
On Sun 22/05* I wake up at around 6 am worried about the fish and find one dead after counting so many times. I inspect and can see that the back fin got trapped by my filter nozzle and it was lying on its side. The fish looked in good health though when I looked at it. 
I change the direction of the nozzle to centre it as it was more one sided before, which has narrowed the gap. I aid Filter Start to the water (x2 1ml droplets everyother day is the dose I am using). 

I feed a few crushed Aquarian tropical fish flakes but they see the food and ignore it and carry on swimming at the top. After 5 mins I removed it and try to discard most of it using a net.

*Problems.*
1. The fish have not eaten since 21/05 in the morning. Why are they refusing to eat?
2. I notice they spend most of they're time at the very top of the tank making air bubbles in the corner by the heater. Is this normal? My heater is set at 25 degrees. I am starting to think that they don't have enough air? 

Even though my air pump is switched on, I think I have set the tube connectors up wrong as they are not pumping bubbles. My filter however has a Venturi for bubble effects which has been on from day 1.

I am worried that the plants and fish will suffer if I can't get the air pump working, is it needed if I have the Venturi on?

3. One fish has died because of the filter nozzle. It was definately trapped by it and suffocated. I don't want this to happen to the other fish, so have centred it. I am thinking maybe that fish was not strong enough to swim away from the current or is it the filter's fault? Should I turn up the Venturi so it pushes away the fish and they can't get trapped again or is centering the nozzle enough?

4. I am confused when I use the net to fish discarded food or the fish out, do I have to use Tapsafe? I ask this as I rinse off the net it tap untreated water and let it dry in my bathroom. Is this ok? I thought it would smell if I didn't rinse it off.

5. I notice a kind of faint greeny line in my clouded tank water. Is this due to the plants? 

6. What care can I give the fish so they don't all die or what do you think I should do? I really don't want a fishless cycle, I am very new and thought it would be easier to do a fish in cycle as you don't need to add ammonia? 

The guy in the aquarium centre did say I may lose 1 or 2 and said its best to do a fishless cycle but I said I wanted to do a fish in cycle. He said that in a week I would need to do daily 20% water changes.

I posted here first and will call the shop I bought them from also. I also am going to try to get an API testing kit today and take a sample to the shop to test.

Ultimately I would love to have a Betta fish with a select few community fish.

*c/p*


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hello,welcome!Sounds like you have dived head first.I believe the fish you chose are a bit to sensitive for cycling.The reason they are so stressed is the way you acclimated them.You got them accustomed to the temp but not the water itself.It happens,as many LFS will for get to mention PH differences.Drip acclimation is always best,but even just adding a bit of water every few minutes or so will help.The cloudy water is due to new tank syndrom,its the beginning of your cycle.Do you have a master test kit?I dont suggest strips as they are notoriously inaccurate.If not you need to invest in one especially for the cycle.
Now for your problems:
1:Most likely they are refusing food because of stress.Its ok for them to go a few days without eating.If you get too worried,try a different food,pellets instead of flakes,or even frozen.
2:Bring the temp up another degree.They sound stressed,and usually gulping for air is a sign of low oxygen or ammonia.If they have a bubbler,then I think it would be ammonia.Need to do a waterchange,and get that test kit to be sure.
3:Im not sure he was trapped by the nozzle.He could have been too weak to swim away from it,or even died and gotten picked up by it.
4:Theres not enough chlorine on the net after a rinse to be worried.So no need to keep using chemicals.
5:The green may be algae.What type of light do you have and how long is it on?Also a pic of the plants would help us identify them for you.Some may not be aquatic.
6:Fishless cycle is by far the easiest as you dont have to buy more fish,and it gets you used to the numbers you need as well as being much more gentle on the fish themselves.Either way you need a test kit to be able to monitor the ammonia nitrite and nitrate levels to keep them safe for the fish.

If you add a betta,make sure he will get along with the other tankmates he has.rasboras are fine as are some small quick tetras.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

You haven't let your tank cycle yet. Good cycling fishes are male guppies, White Mountin Clouds or Female Bettas; not Rasboras. Add only one or two new fish at a time. Your water is cloudy because you have a bacteria bloom, very common in new tanks. It will disappear in a few days. Plants are are needed during cycling, they help the fish to get through the cycling process by adding good bacteria and protozoa to your tank and by providing shelter and security for your fish.


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## goldentipz (May 22, 2011)

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. 

I almost took the fish back to the shop today as I thought I couldn't cope after another one died. I now have two of the five fish left.

They were in a bag freezer bag with water ready to be taken back but I could see that they seemed to be the fighters out of the bunch so decided to keep them (one of them is small and one of them is bigger). At one point one of the fish (The bigger one) was swimming upside down in the bag, so I flipped him up as he couldn't turn himself over!

I called the store also and have done a 20% water change. I did ask them if I should do 50% and they said not to as that's too much.

I will get a test kit, but haven't got that yet. Following the water change one of the fish seems to go into the water deeper (the smaller one) and then come up for air and the other one is still stuck at the surface (the bigger one). They seem slightly more happier and move about a bit more, but spend most of there time in the middle top of the tank.

The lights I have are two 15 watt florescent lamps - a bright Day white light (on the most for 8 hours at least) and a Cool Blue Moon light lamp (for the illusion really).

I have more questions:

1.The shop have said I do not need to use the air pump as that is just to produce bubbles for the decor and if I have a filter that is enough for the fish and plants, as the plants produce they're own oxygen. Is that correct? I have switched off the pump and just left the heater and filter running.

2. The shop also said that to not do water changes every day and that every other day 20-25% water changes are enough. They also said to stop putting the Filter start in as this could be causing more ammonia and bacteria and that is what the plants and fish are now doing, so they're is no need to use it. Is this amount of water change ok?

3. I am still confused about how to use the suction for water changes, so for the water change the fish were in an air tight freezer bag with about 2 inches of water from the tank. I then switched of everything at the plug tank wise, tried using the suction gravel cleaner but couldn't figure it out, so got a bucket and roughly measure 20% which came out as a whole bucket full and flushed that down the toliet. 
I then filled up a different smaller bucket and mixed the cold and hot water tap together to try and get it the same temperature as the water in the tank and then added the Tapsafe and then added it to the water. I didn't measure the Tapsafe as it say 1ml per 27 gallons so just put for each full small bucket (2 full in total) 0.5ml each. I then put that straight into the water and turned on the heater, lights and filter again. 
Next time I think I just move the plastic tube up and down but I was instead moving the plastic springy tube up and down which didn't work.

What is the easiest and quickest way to do a water change? Do you have to take the fish out of the water every time if using the bucket or the suction method? I thought if you do have to do this that it will stress out the fish. If you are taking the fish out with the same water from the tank, do you have to float them in the bag once the water change is done to get them use to the new water added.

4. Is the chemicals in the fish tank bad for you or other pets - cats? I have been putting my hands in the tank without gloves. I also have cats, so do wash my hands afterwards as I don't want to transfer anything to them. 

5. They are still not eating, I was told as they are now two of them one small flake the size of my baby finger nail crushed is enough for two of them once a day and that they can go for weeks without food and its probably the ammonia in the tank for the reason they do not want to eat. Is this ok?

6. The shop said that my tank will take about a week to filter and that if out of the two one of them dies, that the other one should be ok and I shouldn't get anymore until tank cycled. Is this correct? I ask this as they are schooling fish - right? 

7. What do I do if I loose all fish? Cycle the tank minus the fish and leave the plants in? Or will the plants die? Should I get more fish?

8. The shop said I will know when the tank has cycled as I should have 0% ammonia and 0% nitrite, with a reading for nitrate. Is this correct? 
I am going to bring a sample of water in a freezer bag to the shop to test - which cost £2.50 and will also get my own test kit - any recommendations? 
Also is the test kit simple to use? 
The shop said that the test kits are quite expensive and they also said that I should wait until tomorrow to test it as today the water will be lower in ammonia due to the water change and to get a better reading to come tomorrow as that is the day I would not do the water change ( they recommend an every other day 20-25% water change and not doing a reading the day of the water change as it won't be accurate).

9. The fish are Harlequin rasbora's and I asked the shop about the difference in color between them. One of them is more darker (the bigger one) and one of them is lighter (the smaller one) and more silvery - they are both red tailed ones though. Is this true that they can have a slight difference in color?

10. I know that you've said I should have gotten another species of fish, but I went by the shops recommendation and am going to stick with them and hope for the best, I'll know next time though. Do you think thats ok? The shop even said I could use a goldfish to cycle the tank but that they are messy but would cycle the tank faster, but said that the Harlequin rasbora's are good.

I really appreciate all your help, the water looks better as I can see the plants more, the temp is a steady 25 degrees and I would take pics of the plants but not sure now that it's cloudy if you could see them to identify which ones they are. Should I wait until the water is clear?

Thanks again, sorry for the long post.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

1-It does indeed help to aerate the water,but they are correct,the filter and plants may be enough.
2-Yes definately stop the chemicals.The ammount of water changed will depend on the ammonia readings.You can do 20-25%every other day and things should be ok.
3-You dont need to remove the fish.I dont use a gravel cleaner myself,I use a rigid airline tubing attached to a long piece of airline and let it drain into a bucket.My plant s will help with the bottom messes,as do the snails,sorry no help there.
4-My cats and dog drink my water,lol.The filteration of it makes it very pure and tasty.Plus for some reason they like to nibble on duckweed.Strange cats.
5-Yes they can go awhile without food.Like I sadi if you are worried,supplement with pellets or frozen.Im sure they will munch the frozen.
6-yes they are schooling fish,but I wouldnt add any more until the cycle is complete,then only a few at a time,depending.Add less for larger fish.
7-If they all pass,fishless cycle would be best for the new ones in the long run.Plants will be fine.
8-Tests are very easy to read.Be sure you get the test with the tubes,not the strips.
9-I would imagine its color loss due to stress,or maybe one is female and one male.Dont know anything about rasboras though.
10-Absolutly do not use goldfish.They are very messy fish and once you get them it would be very hard to rehome.Your tank isnt big enough for them.If you like the rasboras stick with them for sure.Just next time,try either fishless cycling or a more hardy fish.


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

I started with the interpet fish box as well exactly the same size. They do keep pretty clean which is ideal as well. As you've seen yourself you should have left it longer before adding fish. Pets at home say to wait 3 days (which basically only allows enough time for things to settle like substrate). The more specialist stores recommend nothing less than 1-2 weeks before adding a hardy fish obviously for cycling to start.

Which shop do you use for doing water tests for you? There are a number of chains that do it for free. £2.50 is a rip off i get mine done for free. I've had rasporas in the past and they can be quite delicate. But when they settle they can look nice in a school


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## goldentipz (May 22, 2011)

Thanks all.

I will try and look for something else for the water changes if the gravel doesn't work when I next do it (Wednesday)

I will be sure to get the tube tests, will any brand do?

I did go to Pets at Home for my tank, but not my fish. I know they said wait a little longer, but I jumped the gun. It's good to know that it is a clean tank to have. I love the blue night lights. 

I think Pets at Home do the water tests for free - but I'm sure it's only if I had bought fish from them? I'll call and find out. The place that does the £2.50 tests are a local shop with an Aquarium center downstairs where I got fish from - Paws 4 Thought.

I'll try and go back to Pets at Home if it's free.

Can anyone else recommend something for quick water changes apart from the bucket method as I'm sure if the fish were in the tank throughout the water change that they would end up in the bucket? I tried to look for a rigid airline tubing but it seems hard to get hold of here in the UK. Is the gravel cleaner - once I get use to it what most use for water changes? 

Also if I use the gravel sucker every time I do a water change - will that not be too much gravel dirt and disturb the fish?

Do the plants need plant food? I will try to find out which one's they are from the shop or take pics and see what you guy's think, the guy in the shop recommended the plants to me. One of them reminds me of a spider plant.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Isn't it cheaper to buy your own testing supplies?


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## bolram (May 17, 2011)

Yeah the blue lighting is cool at night times and is co chilling as well. I didnt even have to clean the 'glass' and the water stayed clear and clean. Then switched to a fluval setup and have had some issues but nothing that cant be dealt with.

Pets at home will do testing for free for everyone, whether a customer or not. I use them all the time as I live 5 minutes walk away lol. I'd be wary buying fish from there though as alot of people do not find them as the highest of quality. I've been fortunate and always selected fairly decent ones from them though. But independent smaller stockists are definitely a better option they tend to have better quality even if it does cost a few quid more.

I use the gravel cleaner to do water changes. If you want to clean the gravel use the gravel nossle bit. If not just slip the tubing of and use that, if you get the bog standard one where thy say you have to move and and down to form the suction then its perfect. I dont do the moving up and down as its a waste of time. Just suck the end of the tube until water is near your mouth then stop and straight away put the tube in the bucket to ensure the water flow is kept. If you dont have it i think pets at home do it for something like £5.99. 
Do not hesitate using it as the fish dont get sucked up, only on the most rarest of occasions. I use the same process and i have small neon tetras, also small baby fry and never once sucked up a fish (obviously just watch what you are doing lol).

The lighting in the interpet is quite good I had live plants in there and they thrived. I did not use any food formula for them just good old natural growth. I've got cuttings of all of them cos they just wont stop growing so having a continuous supply of new planting.


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