# Changing filtration type...HELP



## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Dear All

Ok, so my saltwater tank has been running since mid june, so almost 7 months. It is a Aquaone 380, 45 litre nano tank. I have always had a problem with nitrates, i have plenty of live rock, use algae to try to reduce nitrate and 'nitrate minus'. I do 20% water changes weekly-every 2 weeks. Every other perameter is under control, bar my nitarte which i can never seem to reduce down, so has cost me some corals recently. I was speaking to my LFS who told me trickle filter systems, like i currently have, are terrible and only make the situation worse.
Within my trickle filter, i have a carbon layer, poly filter, regular filter pad, carbon cartridge and the 'dry' part consists of bio balls. I have been told a few people have ripped their trickle filter out and replaced it with a nano protein skimmer. 

What are your thoughts of this to reduce nitrates and effectively be a lot healthier within my tank? Is this even possible to do? I need advise ppllleeaaassseeeeeeee


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

THe people you have talked to about removing the wet/dry filter are correct. Filters are norotious for Nitrate issues. You can keep the filter, but remove everything from it but the carbon. You can use that filter for running carbon and GFO, but nothing else. And run the skimmer. Or remove the filter all together, and still run the skimmer. On the other hand, on a 11 gallon tank without a skimmer, which its not an all together need, you need to be changing 10% of you water weekly instead of biweekly. So there are a couple thinngs for you to try. 
How do you know the corlas were dying because of the Nitrates? What are you Nitrate readings? What kind of corals are you keeping? What kind of light do you have? What kind of water movement do you have?


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Corals, i have Toadstool Leather x 2, Blue mushrooms, dotted mushrooms, star polyps, xenia and an orange sponge. Recently i had a torch coral which just died over night and a brain coral which starved itself to death after weeks of trying to feed it properly. Water movement wise, i have the trickle filter which provides some movement and a hydor nano 1600 pump also. Lighting wise i have a 11W sunlight/marine mix lamp. 

Nitrate levels are often around 90. Trying to get them any less than this is a big struggle. At first i thought it was down to over stocking, so reduced the amount of fish in there, so now i have a percula clown, 6 line wraisse, yellow tail damsel, cleaner shrimp and hermit crab. I just need to reduce the nitrate efficiently. Theres also a piece of live rock, which has a few polyps and star polyps on, which extends tentacles at night and morning, which gives out A LOT of waste. I dont even know what it is. 

I could stop the trickle altogether and fit a protein skimmer, which has been an option for a long time. My issue is where to put it and such as everything is built in. Here is a pic of the aquarium:


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Got ya, not an easy fit for a skimmer, so lets forego that for the time being. You need at least 1.5lbs of Live Rock per gallon for your system, so when you say you have a piece, do you have a big enough peice? Also, to get your Trates down right now, you can do consecutive water changes on the large side, like 50% 3 days in a row, take a reading after the 3rd day to see where they are at, for a point of reference on wether or not you need to do a few more like that, most freak out when this is said, but you have to know that your bacteria in your tank is mostly on the rock and sand, and the big water changes will not affect them. Your lighting in inadequate for your system, you should have at least a 40 watts of light on there for your corals.
So, stop the trickle filter, and do a bunch of large water changes to get you ingood shape for the time being. Once your Trates are under 20, and the filter is off, you can probably start your weekly changes, and add more Live Rock to your system. This should get you in better shape. So, let me know if Im reading this right also, the pump you are using is a 422gph pump? I'm trying to convert your LPH into what I know. In a Reef Tank you would need 20x the water turnover.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> Got ya, not an easy fit for a skimmer, so lets forego that for the time being. You need at least 1.5lbs of Live Rock per gallon for your system, so when you say you have a piece, do you have a big enough peice? Also, to get your Trates down right now, you can do consecutive water changes on the large side, like 50% 3 days in a row, take a reading after the 3rd day to see where they are at, for a point of reference on wether or not you need to do a few more like that, most freak out when this is said, but you have to know that your bacteria in your tank is mostly on the rock and sand, and the big water changes will not affect them. Your lighting in inadequate for your system, you should have at least a 40 watts of light on there for your corals.
> So, stop the trickle filter, and do a bunch of large water changes to get you ingood shape for the time being. Once your Trates are under 20, and the filter is off, you can probably start your weekly changes, and add more Live Rock to your system. This should get you in better shape. So, let me know if Im reading this right also, the pump you are using is a 422gph pump? I'm trying to convert your LPH into what I know. In a Reef Tank you would need 20x the water turnover.


Nono, i have a lot more live rock in my tank, thats just one bit that seems a bit odd to me.
So, i am switching my filtration off completely over 3 days, whilst doing 50% changes each day? 
My lighting is inadequate is it? Hmmm, so i need a 40w lamp, is it preferred to be mixed with marine and sunlight or all the same? I found it hard to find a bulb that is the correct fitting for the tank is all. That was the size recommended by my LFS as it would fit the tank. 
So doing the consecutive water changes wont hurt the corals or the fish in there at all? 
And with regards to the pump, i think its 1600 litres an hour, so 351 gallons per hour, if i've done the calculation correctly.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

domgreenslade said:


> Nono, i have a lot more live rock in my tank, thats just one bit that seems a bit odd to me.
> So, i am switching my filtration off completely over 3 days, whilst doing 50% changes each day?
> My lighting is inadequate is it? Hmmm, so i need a 40w lamp, is it preferred to be mixed with marine and sunlight or all the same? I found it hard to find a bulb that is the correct fitting for the tank is all. That was the size recommended by my LFS as it would fit the tank.
> So doing the consecutive water changes wont hurt the corals or the fish in there at all?
> And with regards to the pump, i think its 1600 litres an hour, so 351 gallons per hour, if i've done the calculation correctly.


LFS are notorious for gettin you just stuff, I might add, incorrect stuff. The lighting you need for Corals is in the range of 4watts per gallon, using T-5 or PC in that tank. The corals need the light. The water changes will not harm the corals or fish, the nitrates are doing that for you. You need white light that penetrates, not color rendering light that doesn't do anything for the corals. The water changes I suggested should knock your Trates right out, providing you shut down the filter. For a check, if you must, you can leave the filter running, and still do the water changes, they will come down doing them that way, and they will run right back up. Also, by overfeeding the fish and the corals you will cause a nutrient issue and the nitrates will climb that way too. So you may have a 2 fold problem. Only solve one at a time. If you are alittle weary about the water changes, then lower your feeding of the fish and corals. Just on how much you feed, not on the days. Corals only need to be fed a couple times a week.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

So if i leave my filter off during the water changes, when do i turn it back on? Once the trates are lower say on the third day? Basically, i am getting the nitrates lower and by turning the filter back on, they could rise, so am i getting a base reading before the filter then after the filter, to see how much damage the filter is actually doing?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Pretty much yea. And oce you figure out how bad the filter is, you will just leave it off.


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## LegitFish (Nov 27, 2011)

i believe what he is saying is that if you leave your filter on, the nitrates will be reintroduced into the tank by way of the wet dry filtration you have on your tank. If you must leave your flirtation on due to the need of water movement, do so, but you will be adding some of the nitrate back into the tank. Also, have you taken out the media, or filter pads, and cleaned them? This may help. Also, I have found Chemi-Pure Elite to do a great job at maintaining the trates at low levels, and will also help with phosphate.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Yeah i clean the filter pads regularly and replace them. So once i get my trates down, if i take the media out of the filter and just leave carbon filter pads in there, and this will provide good enough filtration? Along with water changes?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

domgreenslade said:


> Yeah i clean the filter pads regularly and replace them. So once i get my trates down, if i take the media out of the filter and just leave carbon filter pads in there, and this will provide good enough filtration? Along with water changes?


Sure. You don't need a filter on your system. I have a 240g tank, and do not have a filter on it in any shape or form. I Dose Vodka, and my parameters are Ammonia-0 Nitrites-0 Nitrates-0. The Live Rock you have is your bilogical filter, there is no need for another. The skimmer would be a good thing, but with no room, you compensate for nutrient export by doing weekly water changes. The carbon is just to clarify your water and take out minerals and or medications. But, the answer is yes, to your question.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Tomorrow is going to be the first day of the changes. I will perform a 50% change, remove the poly filter and filter pads and leave in the carbon filter. During the course of the 3 days i will also leave the filter completely off, relying on my air pump for all water movement. I've taken a reading of nitrate today, and i'll take one once the water change is complete also. I'll then take readings on day two to see the difference. I'll keep posting with my results, hoping the trates go back down to a comfortable level.
Fingers crossed


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## rizza77 (Jan 12, 2012)

When setting up a new aquarium it is important to first complete a thorough cycling so that the beneficial bacteria needed for ammonia and nitrite conversion can be established. In a mature aquarium it is important not to over clean the bacterial environment to maintain a healthy level of nitrogen cycling. Once nitrifying bacteria is present it can begin to metabolize the harmful ammonia produced by decaying plants, uneaten food and decomposing fish waste.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Ok, so this idea got put to the back of my mind for a while during a hectic few months. 
Today i did a 40% water change, straight swap out, cleaned most of the live rock and corals. Turned off the trickle filter and just have my air pump going. My issue is the water is rather cloudy where there is no filtration going on. Shall i just run the trickle filter with some carbon sponge and nothing else?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

What's your powerhead situation? How much flow do you have in the tank? You'll need 10x your water volume for a fish only, and a minimum of 20x your water volume for reef tanks. This will help clear up your cloudy issue.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> What's your powerhead situation? How much flow do you have in the tank? You'll need 10x your water volume for a fish only, and a minimum of 20x your water volume for reef tanks. This will help clear up your cloudy issue.


My powerhead is 1600 L/H in a 10 gallon tank, or a 45.5 litre tank, so 20 x 46 = 920 so it appears my powerhead is good enough for the flow.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

Let it settle down. Don't rush it.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Did a 50% water change, nirtates the lowest theyve ever been with the filter off. Left the filter off over night with powerhead on.
Woke up the next day and 80% of livestock is dead. Nitrite was criminally high. 2 clowns and starfish survived, 1 clown now looking very worst for wear, led on the bottom breathing very quickly. Never trying that again.
Ripped out the wet/dry filter, replaced with an external fluval 205 filter and now using a nano skimmer

Question on the nano skimmer front, the bubbles should be in the neck, not the cone right? And why do i have so many damn microbubbles in my tank?


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

You had a Nitrite spike, but not a trace of Ammonia? Interesting. What were your Nitrate readings the next morning?
Your question: Yes the bubbles should be in the neck. If you bought the skimmer new, they come with a type of film on them to keep them while in storage, this can take up to 2 weeks to get out. So, its best to clean them out with water and vineagar, this will remove the film, and should get you on your way quickly.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Reefing Madness said:


> You had a Nitrite spike, but not a trace of Ammonia? Interesting. What were your Nitrate readings the next morning?
> Your question: Yes the bubbles should be in the neck. If you bought the skimmer new, they come with a type of film on them to keep them while in storage, this can take up to 2 weeks to get out. So, its best to clean them out with water and vineagar, this will remove the film, and should get you on your way quickly.


So if i dont clean it out that way, it effectively wont work for two weeks? How long does it take for foam to start forming, all ive got it bubbles so far


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Just bought a lot of vinigar and have the skimmer soaking in it now, i'll just leave it over night and hopefully after i've cleaned it in the mornign with water, it should work a bit better


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

domgreenslade said:


> So if i dont clean it out that way, it effectively wont work for two weeks? How long does it take for foam to start forming, all ive got it bubbles so far


If you did not clean it out, it would be hit or miss with the foaming. It would run micro bubbles for a bit, and fine tuning it would be a real pain in the rear.


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## domgreenslade (Jul 16, 2011)

Cleaned it with vinegar and water going to put it back in soon, but all my levels are still very high, nitrite mainly, but is this down to it being a new filter? i used the existing bio balls in the new filter but obviously the sponges and carbon and other bio media is new. Could my live rock be dead also?


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## arigatou (Mar 6, 2012)

If you must leave your flirt need to do water sports, but you will join some of the nitrate into the tank.


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## Reefing Madness (Aug 12, 2011)

domgreenslade said:


> Cleaned it with vinegar and water going to put it back in soon, but all my levels are still very high, nitrite mainly, but is this down to it being a new filter? i used the existing bio balls in the new filter but obviously the sponges and carbon and other bio media is new. Could my live rock be dead also?


You'd have to have a huge skimmer to take out all the organics that fast. Your going to have to do water changes every week or so to keep the parameters in line, then once you have themk down the skimmer will get it from there.


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## Timmy (Jul 1, 2012)

I change half the water only not all


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