# Looking for snail info



## Amie

I have snails in my tank. They hitchhiked there on some real plants. I don't know what kind they are but could probably get a picture for identification purposes, if necessary. 

I'm wondering some things:
Are they overall good or bad for the tank?
What do they eat?
I heard that snails are more susceptible to changes in the tank, so a snail would die before the fish and then you would know something is wrong with your tank?
Should I be killing them or leaving them alone? 
How do they multiply?

And any other type of information about them would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


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## chris oe

Personally, I love snails. Put up a picture, I'm sure we can figure it out. Chances are good if these rode on some plants, they're ramshorns (brown bodies, brown shells, coiled in a disk shape, rather than a cone, good algae eaters) but the other common types are MTS light brown or cream colored cone shaped shell w/ brown markings, white or cream bodies with light markings, tend to burrow in the substrate, occasionally coming up on the glass, great for undergravel filters, tend to eat debris from among the gravel but will also eat algae off the glass, or pond snails, sort of a teardrop shaped brown shell, soft brown body, good algae eaters but they seldom last long with any but the gentlest fish, the shells are very thin and fish just tend to eat them right up. You can see pictures of these and other types of snails in the other snails section of The Apple Snail (Ampullariidae) Website but pictures will also work.


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## James0816

Amie said:


> I have snails in my tank. They hitchhiked there on some real plants. I don't know what kind they are but could probably get a picture for identification purposes, if necessary.
> 
> I'm wondering some things:
> Are they overall good or bad for the tank?
> What do they eat?
> I heard that snails are more susceptible to changes in the tank, so a snail would die before the fish and then you would know something is wrong with your tank?
> Should I be killing them or leaving them alone?
> How do they multiply?
> 
> And any other type of information about them would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


The most common hitchhiker is the bladder snail. There are a few others and with a pic it can be properly identified.

To answer your other questions:

Are they overall good or bad for the tank? - Depends. They are good but can quickly overrun a tank if you're not carefull.

What do they eat? - anything (except live plants). They are scavengers and will eat detrius, dieing plant leaves and such.

I heard that snails are more susceptible to changes in the tank, so a snail would die before the fish and then you would know something is wrong with your tank? - Unless your water parms are way off, they usually won't be affected. Briggs on the other hand can be affected.

Should I be killing them or leaving them alone? - Your call on this one. Either you want them or don't. Some say yay...others say nay.

How do they multiply? - Asexually. They don't need male to female to reproduce. This depends on the type of snail though. Bladder, Ponds, MTS and some Ramshorns reproduce this way. Others require both male and female.


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## mfgann

One option, should you change your mind later, is to get assassin snails. They actually hunt and eat the other snails, and reproduce much slower, so you shouldn't be overrun by them. They're always on aquabid and actually look nice. I'm waiting to have a snail problem so I can have an excuse to buy some. 

I don't think there is any other type of fish they'll bother, but I'm sure all snails would be targets...


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## chris oe

Snails do sometimes signal tank conditions. When all the MTS get up on the glass, its a sign I should do water tests (and usually a water change). If the ammonia in the tank gets above what the biofilter can handle, all my brigs start acting sluggish, tuck into their shells and won't move, its another sign I need to grab the water test and do a water change pronto. Holes in shells tend to signal that carbonate hardness isn't what it should be. If you see a tank full of happy snails with beautiful shells you know that not only is the water good today, its been good for a long while, since the shells are like a record of the water quality.


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## Amie

I couldn't get a picture of the snails with my camera  I do have a pic in my inbox if anyone is interested enough to give me their email address I can forward it to them. I did find a picture on the web that looked like the ones in my tank though:









So, any ideas on what type it is? Also, how odes it procreate cause right now there are 4 or 5 weird thingys in my tanks. They look like little bubbles of white jell filled with little air bubbles or something. Have a pic of that in my inbox too. Something like this but attached to my plants:


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## mfgann

Well, at least they're not real ugly. If you find you're infested I saw another way one guy got rid of them. He moved all his fish to another tank and cranked up his CO2 way too high every night. This would drive the snails to surface, and he would collect them each morning, until none were showing up. Sounded like an easy fix if you could stow your fishies elsewhere.

Good luck!


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## Amie

If these guys can forecast tank problems for me before they affect the fish they are welcome to stay. Granted, when I get too many I might have to move some of the snails to new tanks though. 


Any ideas on how big they get and if they are something I need to take into account when figuring out the max capacity of my tank???


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## James0816

Those would be bladder snails. They don't get very big at all. 1/2" area. The "jelly" sacs you see are their egg sacs.


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## chris oe

What kind of fish do you have? Lots of fish will just eat these guys up. Their shells are kind of thin, easy for persistent fish to break, and they don't offer much protection, and the egg sacks are soft, easy for fish to gobble up as well. Very gentle fish won't bother them, but I doubt they'll overpopulate with even mildly aggressive fish around. 

Usually when you have people complaining about snail overpopulation its ramshorns, and its a tank with a very high level of nitrate and algae, which is allowing the snail population to go up. They don't see the algae, because the snail population is converting the algae to snails rather quickly, but without excess food you don't get excess snails. If you think about it, in a tank with excess food, only a few things can happen: you either get excess ammonia, and dead fish, or you get excess nitrate & phosphate and an algae bloom, or you get excess snails. Really, the snails are not the worst thing that can happen. Better by far to keep from overfeeding and do regular partial water changes, then you won't have excess ammonia, nitrate, phosphate, algae or snails.


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## Amie

The tank has 2 female pregnant guppys and platy guppy and molly fry in the net away from the snails. 

So, are these good snails to let me know that the tank is okay. That is, would their shells get holes in it or would they die if something was wrong with the water before the fish got hurt??


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## chris oe

I haven't observed patterns of behavior/condition with these snails myself because they never live for long in my tanks. Usually the fish eat them pretty fast. My guess is your live bearers will eat them pretty fast, especially as the fry grow. If they don't, you may well notice white banding on the shells along the leading edge where new growth is laid down if the ph isn't good over time, and you may notice them tucking in more versus being out more according to the ammonia, but you might also notice them being tucked in if the guppies are hungry and nipping at them. 

I'd never abandon your test kit in favor of snails, but I would recommend observing them and seeing what they can tell you. When you do your tests, compare your test results to what you see in your snail behavior, and you will probably see patterns which will, over time (if they survive) allow you to get sight cues from them any time you walk by. I think bridgesii are easier to read because they are bigger, more robust and can hold their own with fish like guppies (I often keep them in my fry tanks to vaccuum up uneaten food and keep things tidy as well as acting as early warning snails) but you may learn a lot from these as well.


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## Amie

I don't think the guppys are going to get them now. They have been in the tank for a few months (both the snails and the female guppys) and they have not killed them yet. Now the snails look too big for them to eat anyway. The guppys also don't seem to be paying any attention to the eggs either.

Are these the type of snails that procreate by themselves or do they need another snail to do it??

I would never throw away my tests and let the snails tell me what to do but, unless I change something in my tank myself and think a problem might develop, I don't usually use my tests unless I am unsure of something. So, I mean generally paying attention to the snails in order to determine if more investigation is required. For example, snails look fine and fish look fine-leave the tank alone. Snails look dead-check the water and figure out the problem from there. Snails have holes in shells-check the water.


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## AtRandom

This snail is not going to show any real signs of water quality problems, short of water hardness or pH. They are extremely hardy. They are highly prolific and do cause damage to plants if not "fed." I just lowered my tank volume and removed any that I could. The babies had to be crushed as I could not manually remove them from surfaces. The eggs, that I could find at least, were smeared around to break the protective jelly sack. I recently made a little video about these and just now on the breeding forums saw this thread. Enjoy!


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## Amie

Love the video!!! That is them-yours look a little bigger but that could be the zoom. 

If not fed they will harm the plants.....but they will look for decaying matter first right?? I don't have any plant damage that I know of yet from them but lots of decaying matter in the tank.

So much for them telling me tank problems then  I was hoping to have a warning sign in the tank. I was thinking of just leaving them alone until all the decaying matter is cleaned up.....does that sound like a good idea to you??

Also, how does having them in the tank effect my capacity load for fish in the tank??


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## chris oe

They do count as fish when figuring how much animal load you have in the tank, how much population the tank can support, so yes, unless you are fond of them, unless you feel they're doing a job, you probably don't want to keep many of them around.


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## AtRandom

Amie said:


> Love the video!!! That is them-yours look a little bigger but that could be the zoom.
> 
> If not fed they will harm the plants.....but they will look for decaying matter first right?? I don't have any plant damage that I know of yet from them but lots of decaying matter in the tank.
> 
> So much for them telling me tank problems then  I was hoping to have a warning sign in the tank. I was thinking of just leaving them alone until all the decaying matter is cleaned up.....does that sound like a good idea to you??
> 
> Also, how does having them in the tank effect my capacity load for fish in the tank??


Many snails will surface or try to escape an aquarium that has low oxygen or toxic levels of waste, because these are lung-breathing snails, they don't need dissolved oxygen. I've been throwing them into a "dump this bucket in a ditch and cover it bucket" for quite some time, and they are STILL alive and breeding in it, it's unbelievable. I'm sure if I tested the water it'd be horrible quality!
I keep 5 or 6 species of snails in several tanks and I've noticed that if only a few Physa get in, they will have a larger population than the existing population sooner or later. I think the brown ramshorn snail is its best competitor as far as proliferation.
They are similar to most snails in that if don't have detritus/mulm, fish food, or algae, they will quickly move to plants. They will eat the algae on the plants, then eat the plants! I think you will be fine for now, the problem is that they will reproduce so rapidly, that by the time your tank is "cleaned", you now have some 50 bajillion hungry snails, eating plants! I wouldn't think that their bioload will significantly effect a matured aquarium/filter. I did notice some in my most heavily planted tank, and they dissapeared..this may have been due to fish predation or copper from some additive. Here's a link to a wiki with (little) information for them:
Physa acuta - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki
Maybe I should conduct a test and throw several snails into a tank that has quite a significant amount of decaying plant and live plant and then feed them flake food. I could then document who's eating what. I just cleaned out a bare-bottom 20gallon long last night that had a small cluster of duckweed/crystalwort floating in it and found somewhere around 30+ juvenile Physa. I don't recall seeing even 1 snail when i added that tiny cluster of plants, but sure enough they are everywhere.
The tank in the video is a 10 gallon, with a very similar situation. I use a very fine substrate so the snail looks huge, but it is really a full grown adult that is somewhere around 1/4-1/2 inches long.
I can't say 100% that they are plant destroyers of doom, but any planted tank that has had a multiplying population in them showed very little to no growth, if not a disapearance of plants, and this was not from any of my red rimmed melania or fish. You might as well keep them, since you already have them, and if you start noticing your plants receding or dissapearing...lower the water level and start picking them out! Total eradication will probably require this event several times.

For taking care of decaying plant or detritus, I recommend red rimmed melania or quilted melania. They till the substrate to keep it aerated during the day, and surface at night to eat the dead stuff on the floor. Their lifestyle reminds me of earthworms. Melania also don't get out of control with their populations (I've been keeping them for about 4 months now and it seems they haven't bred much). They may, however, be responsible for some of my floating plants' floating (which just required re-planting). Here's a picture of these guys and I admit - I love them! I'm somewhat confused as to whether nor not these are in fact the same thing as "malaysian trumpet snails," due to their large size and difference in appearance to most pictures I find online..I'm working on a video for them next ^.^


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## chris oe

I've noticed that, for interested fish, physa are not tough to eat. The couple times I've had them in my tanks, I've found empty shells with a hole broken right in the top, indicating that the fish didn't even have to turn them over, or work from the side, that once they figured out snails are what's for dinner they broke right through that thin shell. I've also noticed that, unlike the ramshorn egg sack, the physa egg sack is pretty easy for fish who are interested in them to predate, being soft and squishy instead of hard and rubbery. I've also never really had them successfully reproduce in my tanks, which are heavily planted, but I am talking about high population guppy tanks planted in java moss, java fern and bolbitis which tend to be tough plants. I'm sure that if the fish are less hungry, less thickly populated, and the plants are softer textured, it makes life easier for the physa. Ramshorns, mts and apple snails do much better in my tanks. those melania sound really interesting. I look forward to your video.


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## chris oe

Wikkipedia make a good case for melania and mts being the same species. My MTS do reach the size that are listed for melania in some of the older ones. I'll put up some pictures & see what you think.


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## AtRandom

chris oe said:


> Wikkipedia make a good case for melania and mts being the same species. My MTS do reach the size that are listed for melania in some of the older ones. I'll put up some pictures & see what you think.


I should bust out a ruler as I have a few that I collected from the wild that are, through my exaggerated far-sighted coke-bottle glasses, almost 3 inches (or more?) in total length! Wikipedia says that some can get that big, so I guess the wild ones here do! I will try to compile the footage from collection very soon, and I look forward to your pics!


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## gnix42

These look like the ones I have. There are about 100+ in my tank at the present and they keep laying eggs on the side of the tank. I only have 1 fish...a beta but he doesn't seem to mind them. 
I would like to know how long it takes them to get bigger?


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## the Widow's son

Honestly, I don't believe you have a problem at all (YET). As long as you don't overfeed your fish, the snail population is very unlikely to explode, unless you have an algae bloom (you probably won't have an algae bloom if you have a well-planted tank and don't overfeed, or overpopulate your tank) or a lot of munchable plants like Anarcharis, Water Sprite, Java Fern, Duckweed, or Red Temple).

If your snail population gets beyond your comfort zone, I recommend that you not feed your fish for one or two weeks, and then slowly resume feeding; rather than one feeding per day, try two or three feedings per week. Seriously, folks, two or three feedings per week is more food than any fish in the wild ever got, hands down, mouths shut. Period. If you don't overfeed your fish, then 90% of those snails will starve to death before they even get the chance to reproduce. Also, if you introduce a predator, the snail population is unlikely to get out of hand. Someone already mentioned Assassin Snails, and I second that. Various Puffers and Loaches are also good, but I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to do your homework first before adding a puffer or loach to your aquarium, as many of these fish will not only attack snails, but other fish!

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this, but I've found that the best way to control a snail population is to introduce a species to COMPETE with them for their food source. I personally recommend Cardinal Shrimp and/or Mystery Snails (although if you introduce a predator, like puffers or loaches, many of these will attack shrimp or large, slow reproducing snails like Mysteries... just sayin'). An effective competitor like Mystery snails and/or glass shrimp, bee shrimp, cardinal shrimp or cherry shrimp will help to starve out baby snails, and prevent overpopulation.

If it were me in your situation, I would do absolutely nothing right now (except feed twice per week instead of once per day). If you're worried, though, go ahead and put some shrimp and mystery snails in the tank to compete with these interloper snails. That much should take care of any possibly forthcoming problems. If, however, SOMEHOW, these interlopers still manage to overpopulate the tank, then Assassin snails will effectively control their population; Indian Dwarf Puffers and Zebra Loaches will work even better than Assassin Snails, but be mindful, because they will attack meek fish.

I hope this was helpful. Good luck, and blessed be, friend of God. Best wishes,
the Widow's Son


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## AtRandom

gnix42 said:


> These look like the ones I have. There are about 100+ in my tank at the present and they keep laying eggs on the side of the tank. I only have 1 fish...a beta but he doesn't seem to mind them.
> I would like to know how long it takes them to get bigger?


If you have only 1 fish, and 100+ of these in your tank, something strange is happening! It could be overfeeding or you may need to gravel vac some (in the event that there is dead plant/leftover food/other detritus accumulated on the substrate), as Widow's Son explained. If you have clean gravel, no algae, and only 1 fish.....it'd be hard for 100 snails to survive unless you are dumping...DUMPING food in there! I do think, though, that you can still feed your fish multiple times a day, provided you feed them only as much as they will eat, without any excess food hitting the bottom. I like to feed my fish (especially fry and tanks with many fish) several times a day, different food types, to make sure that all the fish get a chance to eat as well as a varied diet. This supposedly helps with color and growth, but ya gotta be careful to make sure the fish are actually ravenously eating ALL the food or snails will explode.
I have a bare bottom sailfin molly tank that went from (appearingly) 0 snails to 50 in a week, with no overfeeding! I guess they hitch-hiked in with a HOB filter switch from another tank  Ram's horn seem to proliferate quite a bit in my planted tank, which is not overfed, but does have PLENTY of dead plant munch for them. I'd definitely make sure there is nothing edible (anything organic, or filters even lmao) on the substrate if you want to get rid of/control snails.
I just bought a loach to drop between tanks to eradicate Physa, we'll see if that works, but I think loaches need friends to be happy. You can also opt for getting an assassin snail, but I was told they will eat all the tank's snails in a single night, and then...starve? They're pretty cool though - they suck the snails guts out of their shells! CANNIBALISM! xP
I'm 99% done with my "MTS" (Red Rim Melania & Quilted Melania wild caught) flick, I'm just trying to edit the sound and make sure my narration sounds one step above extremely boring. It features collection, captive lifestyle, and F2 snails (babies!). For those interested, I'll link it over here when done. Hopefully I can get my Columbian "Ramshorn," true Ramshorn, and mystery snails covered in upcoming videos! The "Giant Ramshorn" ("Columbian Ram"- applesnail family) "pair" keeps trying to mate, but the pink egg mass disappears when I check up on them later. It's so sad!!!

Let us know how you resolve your tank issue!


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## the Widow's son

AtRandom said:


> You can also opt for getting an assassin snail, but I was told they will eat all the tank's snails in a single night, and then...starve? They're pretty cool though - they suck the snails guts out of their shells! CANNIBALISM!


I confess that I sometimes wish that Assassin Snails would eat so many snails...

Assassins eat detritus, algae, rotifers, and soft plants just like other snails, but if they encounter another snail, they will attack it just as you have described. The will also attack clams and mussels, and I have also seen them eat blackworms.

As predators, I'm guessing that their diet mainly consists of rotifers, worms, and wayward mollusks; they don't really "hunt" snails, per se, they just eat them when they find them.

Actually, rotifers are the main reason why water changes are likely to be inneffective when dealing with a snail infestation. Many rotifers are sessile, and afix themselves to rocks and plants in order to feed (they are microscopic filter-feeders). To get rid of rotifers, you really have to go after their food source, which is mostly green-water algae, plankton, and detritus. That's the stuff you have to get in order to get rotifers. I'd say remove accumulated detritus first (that's what's feeding them), reduce feedings second. Changing the water is sort of a temporary band-aid fix, unless you have high amounts of organic Nitrogen and/or Phosphates in the water (which will lead to an algae bloom, and then a spike in the microbe population, and thus a spike in the rotifer population). To get the rotifer population at its source, the best thing to do is to reduce feedings; plants will also help since plants will compete with plankton and algae. A freshwater sponge is also good competition for rotifers.

Oh yeah, Assassin snails... Assassins will do just fine without other snails to eat, as long as there are rotifers and worms and dead meat to eat, but my best guess is that they are happiest with a population of Physa sp. or Planorbis sp. to prey upon.

Cheers,
the Widow's Son


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## chris oe

I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection between snails and rotifers.


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## AtRandom

Okay, Chris Oe, finally got this video for Red-Rim Melania/MTS and Quilted Melania (very similar lifestyle) finished up. I apologize in advance for boring lengthiness and poor audio/shaky camera quality. Next on the list is probably going to be the "Columbian Ramshorn," which keeps trying to mate, but I find no eggs the next day (even though I clearly see the pink egg sack protruding from the shell). If you guys think I left anything out and don't mind doing so, please post it in a comment on youtube - this way I don't have to remake the video, but people on youtube will still become aware of the information!

SIDENOTE (personal issues): My dog, Razzy, got hit by a truck last week when she escaped our yard, again, and I've dedicated the video to her, as she hated going to the dock with me! What a bad week  Icing your beloved dog on the porch overnight and transporting it to a crematorium the next day is pretty danged traumatic! School is out after my finals tomorrow, some rest/recouperation is in order, as well as tanks/stands rearrangements/builds!


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## James0816

chris oe said:


> I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection between snails and rotifers.


x2


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## chris oe

That's excellent video - very nice detail on those snails. Now I'm going to have to see how many of those details I can see on mine. I keep waiting for some big ones to come up on the glass so I can get good pictures but mostly I have babies up where you can see them and the adults stick to the gravel. You must have great carbonate hardness (my snails all have eroded spires due to struggles with carbonates - I regard your snail's spires with awe and envy) 
My MTS are all ivory colored with little splashes of rust and brown, which makes me wonder if we're dealing with different species or subspecies, or if this is just a function of water chemistry/minerals? The tank I have planted in red flourite the MTS have shells that tend more toward the reddish brown of your quilted melania, although not as deeply "quilted" whereas the 55 where the ivory colored snails are predominant is planted in that reddish clay substrate additive (name escapes me). 
What region are you in? I'm noticing the red lipped melania are wild caught out of some really rich looking black mud. Reminds me of the stuff I used to run into in upstate NY (Salmon Creek) when I was a kid.


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## AtRandom

That's exactly why I was skeptical when first posting about MTS/Melania(?), because I've seen some very very small ones that appeared to be adult - white-ish shelled with green accents (I will have to confirm these colors, I have some in a cup still from a used aquarium). All the sources I've found online regard the MTS and red-rimmed melania as the same species classification, contrasted by significant size, color, and reproductive rates. I'm pretty sure that it's due to their wide distribution. If I remember correctly, to be labeled as a different species, it would not be able to produce viable offspring with the other variations. This may be further confused if they are parthenogenetic, which I have yet to see any mating.

I got these out of the San Marcos River, which is a spring fed (conveniently for aquarists/collectors) river in Central Texas (between Austin and San Antonio). When I dive the river, I often find huge deposits of eroded melania and columbian ramshorn snail shells. The river bed where I collected these from is massively overgrown with floating plants (from Crystalwort to Gigantor Water Hyacinth) as well as leaf litter and debris, all because of the position of the dock in the channel. Needless to say, the bottom is mostly mud in that spot, however most other parts of the river are sandy with very clear water.

As much as I love the sand I'm using, I really wanna get some fired clay or something else for plants, as sand + kitty litter isn't the greatest in maintenance. See if you can't get some pics of your snails up! Maybe we can do a snails swap haha.


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## chris oe

I'll work on the pics. A snail swap would be great, although I'd want to get the carbonate under control so I'd have something worth swapping (poor blunt little snails). I'm thinking about putting in some plaster of paris pucks, its been recommended on applesnail.net as a way to get calcium available for the snails' use for shell building. I keep thinking it doesn't sound ideal, but heck, until ideal comes along, plaster is something.


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## the Widow's son

chris oe said:


> I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection between snails and rotifers.


Snails eat rotifers. A large population of rotifers will support a population of snails. Pretty simple, really... *#3


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## chris oe

All snails eat rotifers? Every species? Even detrivores? Are you sure? Because this sounds like one of those overgeneralizations that one should be careful of.


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## chris oe

Planorbarius corneus, the common ramshorn snail, the little brown one that is commonly a nuisance in aquariums and often the source of snail population explosions, is used widely in scientific research, and in experiments on things like calcium uptake their diet is carefully controlled. They can be fed entirely on things like lettuce (or even dried lettuce) with no ill effects. They can also be observed eating algae by scraping it off the glass with their radula and into their mouths. It would be difficult to imagine that a population of ramshorns would be dependent entirely on a tank's rotifer population if they can survive on a diet of lettuce and can be observed eating algae. 

I can't even find one reference to ramshorns eating rotifers. I imagine they would, the like animal protein when they can get it, if the rotifer would fit in their mouths and could not get away, I am sure they would scrape it up along with everything else. 

That said, rotifers have to eat something. They're part of the tank food web. If they're not eating algae, they're eating something that eats algae, so they too are part of the bloom that results from an over-richness of tank water that can be caused by overfeeding, by the biological life processes of fish, by simply having more going on in your water than your preferred plants can do something with, and that, my friend, can be remedied by water changes. 

It all comes down to the same thing - if you have hitchhikers in your tank food web, if there is more life in your tank than you want, if there are any one of a number of clues that the nutrient level of your water is getting out of hand, one simple solution is to decrease the concentration of nutrients. You can also add more plants, take out more animals, add in less food, but the bottom line is always going to be balance. Snails are a visual manifestation of a tank seeking balance.


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## the Widow's son

chris oe said:


> All snails eat rotifers? Every species? Even detrivores? Are you sure? Because this sounds like one of those overgeneralizations that one should be careful of.


Yes. In truth, it is almost impossible for snails to avoid eating rotifers. Rotifers are microscopic (the largest of rotifers are only barely visible to the naked eye) and afix themselves to surfaces to feed... when a snail "licks" at a surface, any surface, he (she? hmmm...) will inevitably ingest rotifers. Along with algae and detritus, rotifers make up the bulk of a snail's diet in the wild. Please note that this applies only to sessile rotifers; planktonic rotifers are free-swimming, and thus snails pretty much can't eat them. *old dude

Few people outside the biology lab know it, but many species of rotifers are a keystone species in (almost) every ecosystem in the biosphere. Without them, much of the biodiversity among higher species would not be possible. Rotifers are an essential part of the diet of several higher species, especially among mollusks, arthropods, worms, and fish. Many fish fry rely almost entirely upon rotifers for their animal protein (which contains a different schedule of aminos than plant protein, and is thus essential to many species for proper growth and development). Being something of an "Ecofascist" myself, I am a strong proponent of supporting a thriving rotifer population in the home aquarium; whether the aquarium is intended to emulate a Pond Ecology, a Bog Ecology, or a Stream Ecology, rotifers are essential. *old dude

In fairness, it is doubtful that rotifers can be blamed for an overpopulation of snails... rotifers compete with snails for many of the same food sources; thus, if there are enough rotifers in your aquarium to spark an explosion in the snail population, it is likely because the fish are overfed, or the aquarium is overpopulated. The only time rotifers might overpopulate is if you're putting them into the aquarium regularly (as some professional breeders do in order to feed fish fry or crustaceans). *old dude

If you are an aquaculture hobbyist, or a marine/micro biology enthusiast, I highly recommend learning about rotifers, because they are very fascinating creatures that occupy a very unique place in both ecology and, as the ancestors of worms, mollusks, and arthropods, in evolution. They are among the first multicellular animals, and are the first animals in history to have jaws (their signature physical feature) and might be the first animals to have male and female sex. I love rotifers so much that I did my Bachelor's thesis on the Phylum Rotifera. *old dude

Shalom,
the Widow's Son


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## chris oe

Okay, I guess we're having a miscommunication here, because what I thought you were saying is that it is useless to clean up your water, because even if you can get your water to the place where there's no excess algae growing in your tank, the rotifers will still supply the snail bloom with food, where what I was saying is, the bloom is fueled by the nutrients in the water, and it doesn't matter if algae or rotifers are the intermediate vehicle, the crux of the matter is the nutrient oversupply which results in a snail population boom. Decrease the food supply of the snail food supply, and the snail food supply declines. Snail reproduction ceases to be successful, ordinary removal of adults begins to catch up as replacements cease to be produced. The snail population can never get bigger than the available food will allow. 

I can never seem to get it through people's heads: snails are not a problem in and of themselves, the excess of snails is a symptom, not an illness. A tank in balance will never have more snails than you want. 

I have to take special care to keep my Pomacea bridgesii snails fed so they don't starve on me. I have ramshorn snails in my big display tank, but I really have to hunt to find them, because there are so few and they are so small. I have gobs of MTS snails but most of the ones I see are tiny - less than half a centimeter. The big ones only come out to remind me when I need to do a water change. If I see them up on the glass I pull out the water test kit and it usually tells me what they're telling me, that I've skipped a few too many scheduled partials and my nitrates are climbing. If I'm good I have to dig for them to see them at all. 

Do I have rotifers? Perhaps. If my rasboras and brochis and teminiki don't get them first. The really big snails eat algae wafers and canned spinach mostly.


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## chris oe

I'm thinking about working on an article or faq or something (not really sure how this works on this forum, maybe just a boiler plate document for my own use) on advice for people experiencing a snail bloom/overpopulation/etc. 'cause this problem comes up a lot, between people who are actually inundated with snails and people who spot a snail or two and are worried, are these snails going to take over my tank?

I'd like to work out advice that explains what causes snail population booms and how to manage them without triggering the usual debate between the water change people and the beaslebob method people. Both methods can coexist, both methods work, both methods meet different needs, the same person can probably have both types of tanks and not descend into madness. It seems like there ought to be a way to describe, explain and suggest solutions without igniting a holy war. 

I think what I'm going to do is open up a question, probably under the freshwater inverts forum to throw ideas around. I hope you guys will be willing to take part in the discussion. I am aware that my botany and biology education are out of date (20 years out of date - good good - there are things that used to be algae that aren't even classified as algae anymore.) Heck, my favorite type of snail just changed genus species name - again. Plus there's lots of specialized knowledge in this community (for instance, info about rotifers) that is really important and not being utilized for the benefit of all. We end up funneling so much energy into scrapping over fishless cycling versus cycling with fish, or planted tanks vs no plants, or uberplanted versus water changes, that we end up obscuring the real genius and amazing depth of knowledge this community can provide. I hope with time we can change the atmosphere to one of greater exchange of information and cooperation, less turf wars and verbal scuffling.


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## the Widow's son

chris oe said:


> Okay, I guess we're having a miscommunication here, because what I thought you were saying is that it is useless to clean up your water, because even if you can get your water to the place where there's no excess algae growing in your tank, the rotifers will still supply the snail bloom with food, where what I was saying is, the bloom is fueled by the nutrients in the water, and it doesn't matter if algae or rotifers are the intermediate vehicle, the crux of the matter is the nutrient oversupply which results in a snail population boom. Decrease the food supply of the snail food supply, and the snail food supply declines. Snail reproduction ceases to be successful, ordinary removal of adults begins to catch up as replacements cease to be produced. The snail population can never get bigger than the available food will allow.
> 
> I can never seem to get it through people's heads: snails are not a problem in and of themselves, the excess of snails is a symptom, not an illness. A tank in balance will never have more snails than you want.


You are correct; a miscommunication evidently occured... what I was intending to say was that IF rotifers are the problem, a water change is insufficient as a solution; the source of the rotifer bloom must be taken care of (i.e. algae, overfeeding, and/or bioload). Unless you are feeding your fish rotifers, then rotifers are likely not the problem. I guess we're in agreement, then.


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