# Tank cleaning



## cagey59 (Jan 8, 2011)

My 36 gallon tank is one year old and is doing very well. Five gallon water changes have been done bi weekly or monthly. I am wondering if the tank should get a thorough cleaning by removing the fish and washing the gravel, plastic plants and other decorations. Over the past year I have removed everything from the tank three times and rinsed and rubbed off algae and other discoloring materials. During the water changes I use a siphon to clean the gravel.


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## drunkenbeast (Nov 13, 2011)

No there is no benefit of doing it, you risk washing away all of you bacteria that fights off the fish waste and recycling your tank which could potentially kill your fish... you could though do a large water change as much as 80% if you wanted to which would be a good start and maybe over a period of time clean your decorations one by one if you really wanted too, personally i like the look of a little algae but its preference. hope this helps!


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

cagey59 said:


> My 36 gallon tank is one year old and is doing very well. Five gallon water changes have been done bi weekly or monthly. I am wondering if the tank should get a thorough cleaning by removing the fish and washing the gravel, plastic plants and other decorations. Over the past year I have removed everything from the tank three times and rinsed and rubbed off algae and other discoloring materials. During the water changes I use a siphon to clean the gravel.


Hello cagey...

Your water changes should really be done weekly and a minimum of half the water in your tank should be removed and replaced with pure, treated tap water. Small water changes are really not much better than nothing. 

Thinking of your tank as an unflushed toilet may help motivate you to do large, weekly water changes. Your fish are doing their business in the water and pollutants build up daily. The fish have to breathe in that dirty water and their gills are extrmely senative to pollutants in the water, especially ammonia and nitrites.

I've had my large, planted tanks running for several years and just remove and replace 60 to 70 percent of the water every week. I've never broken down the tank and cleaned it. I'd have to find a home for my fish and plants and recycle the tank. That's not an option.

IMO, if you stick to a better water change routine and regularly maintain the filtration equipment, you won't need to go to such drastic projects as cleaning the entire tank.

Just a thought.

B


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## TypeYourTextHere (Apr 20, 2011)

I never do anymore than 25% WC when I actually do get around to changing my water. The reason i don't do WC anymore is because I had about 15 or so fish keel over on me due to PH shock one time.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

I also do monthy water changes, 50%. I have no need to pull down my tank just because they arent done weekly.

If you are getting algae and want to clean it off the decor, just pull them out and do it monthly, do NOT do the gravel though, just the plastic plants & decorations. While they are out give the gravel a really deep clean all over.


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## Kev1jm2 (Oct 18, 2011)

70% a week is overkill and not necessary for the fish to thrive. If you're heavily planted, WCs aren't a big deal. If you aren't heavily planted, a 25% WC every week or two will get the job done. This is assuming you're not overstocked, overfed or underfiltered. I like to follow the KISS method: Keep It Simple, Stupid.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

TypeYourTextHere said:


> I never do anymore than 25% WC when I actually do get around to changing my water. The reason i don't do WC anymore is because I had about 15 or so fish keel over on me due to PH shock one time.


If the water in your tank was your water and the water you replaced it with was yours, then ph shock couldn't have done it. Changing water doesn't cause a ph change unless you either have issues with your water, like low kh, or you changed with something like RO water. If your water has very low kh, this is something you should correct.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think if you want to do large water changes it is up to you. There is less chance of something happening during large changes than there is letting the tank go for long periods without. Discus breeders do 80%+ daily changes. A water change is a water change. Simple enough to do 20 or 80% - same function. Only difference is time.

If you want to go minimalist on it, just let your nitrate level decide how much you change to keep it below 40ppm or so. I would never "thouroughly" clean my tank.


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## imp1979 (Dec 28, 2011)

I do water changes about once a month, but my 75 gallon tank is no where near capacity as far as fish are concerned. Four pictus, one brown knife fish, and one bristle nose algae eater. And I double up on filtration, always have, one top fin60, and one tetra whisper ex70. Someone mentioned above that plants help reduce the need of water changes, does this include plastic? Probably not, just askin.


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## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

JR.. Some discus breeders do NO water changes!...


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

williemcd said:


> JR.. Some discus breeders do NO water changes!...


From what I have read....the less successful ones. I don't breed them, so it doesn't concern me. I just go by what is out there to read.


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## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

JR.. not to get into a debate.. but most discus come out of discus factories... bb tanks.. 80% flushes daily on an automated or semi-automated basis. They are in it as a business. The home breeder for the most part are convinced they need to replicate their programs to ensure success in breeding or maintaining fish. An attentive home hobbiest is from a whole new ball of wax. 
Look into the Diane Walstad method... NO FILTRATION, NO WATER CHANGES.. and while she is somewhat ridiculed in some circles she is celebrated in others... 
I was just pointing out it's a bit erroneous to make a declarative statement about something you're not engaged in. 
My Discus tank gets NO W/C's other than replenishment due to natural evaporation and light substrate cleaning. The tank is HEAVILY planted with only 8 discus in a 155G. The Discus are a month short of 1 year old (haven't lost ANY) (knock on wood) so they are a bit short of coming into breeding state. Bill in Va.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

When i get my discus i will not be doing large daily WC thats for sure. 
1/ i just dont have the water supply to do it. 
2/ Its not fully necessary i believe.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

Getting back to the OP's questions, I would agree that you don't need a complete overhaul. The only time I would say that is warranted is if you have an unplanted tank with an undergravel filter, solely because the manufacturers of the UGF's suggest 6-month overhauls. Instead, as mentioned, I would do a 50% or even 80% PWC and vacuum the beejesus out of your substrate. What's your filter media changing schedule?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

williemcd said:


> JR.. not to get into a debate.. but most discus come out of discus factories... bb tanks.. 80% flushes daily on an automated or semi-automated basis. They are in it as a business. The home breeder for the most part are convinced they need to replicate their programs to ensure success in breeding or maintaining fish. An attentive home hobbiest is from a whole new ball of wax.
> Look into the Diane Walstad method... NO FILTRATION, NO WATER CHANGES.. and while she is somewhat ridiculed in some circles she is celebrated in others...
> I was just pointing out it's a bit erroneous to make a declarative statement about something you're not engaged in.
> My Discus tank gets NO W/C's other than replenishment due to natural evaporation and light substrate cleaning. The tank is HEAVILY planted with only 8 discus in a 155G. The Discus are a month short of 1 year old (haven't lost ANY) (knock on wood) so they are a bit short of coming into breeding state. Bill in Va.


Walstad? Who is Walstad? Rhetorical. I have read Walstad's and Kasselman's books on keeping planted tanks. I have read numerous discussions on her methods on here, as well a few planted sites. Not a revalation to me.

Not sure what factories you refer to? I don't personally know of any. I was referring to people on forums like simplydiscus and what they say they do. I don't think I need to be actually breeding Discus, or "engaged" in it, to be able to read and relay what I've read. I only stated what I've read and my very simple, non-detail, statement is still true. 

I think it is great if the home breeder is trying to push beyond what the norm may be. Although there may be a few out there doing that, my guess is they still move the fry to their own tank, one of which will not be the same environment they were born in. Many breeders out there do this for a number of species of fish today - not just Discus. The main purpose may be to protect from harm of other fish, but nonetheless, a normal practice.

If you are a no water change, no filtration aquarist....question for you? What does your ph read in your tank and at your tap? Do you need to add ph products to maintain? This is not to criticze or anything. Only a data point for other discussions that have gone on, on the forum. You are one of a few conducting this practice of "only" topoffs.


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## williemcd (Jun 23, 2011)

Good question JR.. .My tap comes out at 7-7.2... but I don't concern myself too much with PH and Discus this time around. I'll not touch Wild Caughts.... way too much work. My tanks do run about 6.6 - 6.8.. due to the driftwood and occassionally I gather a half dozen oak leaves (dried), band the stems together and bury the stems... lowers my ph and keeps my water softer I think. My am/nitrite/nitrates stay at zero except the nitrates will spike to 5 if I go more than 2 weeks without a vacuum. 
I'm also thinking that there are more than a few folks practicing the top-off approach but might be hesitant about speaking out about their practice!... 
I also maintain 2 big angel tanks with the same routine. I haven't started my breeding programs yet but I have a spawn going on pretty much non-stop. Now that the holidays are almost over I will be setting up an Angel breeding operation now that I've found an outlet for "every Angel you can rear to quarter size"... My operation will be:
3 5G's for egg hatching, 1 10G to host 3 baby brine shrimp hatchery systems, 3 20G-talls for the breeders I've got, 2 29G's for fry rearing and a 55G for grow-outs. Should be interesting.

On a final note...or two.. I feel a lot of folks either get intimidated about the amount of effort some promote for fish keeping and another group that live for the micro-management of fish-keeping. Hell, go to your local pet-co/smart and you'll see almost as many drugs/chems as you would find at your local drug-store!... Great for profits to the suppliers, so much b.s. for the hobbiest.

My only chemical input is Prime for top-off's... K.I.S.S. Bill in Va.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

williemcd said:


> On a final note...or two.. I feel a lot of folks either get intimidated about the amount of effort some promote for fish keeping and another group that live for the micro-management of fish-keeping.


I'm the latter. High-tech to the extreme. Only thing I'm missing is nice DIY LED fixtures. I do 50% PWC's weekly for my plants, not for my fish. I add fertz with the fresh water. My tanks could be left alone and the plants would literally soak up ALL of the nitrates (I've seen it happen on a weekly basis, hence why I add more each time). In fact, these past two weeks my tanks have gone without WC's and the only thing I need to worry about now that I'm home is some gardening.

Just my .02, and always willing to make change


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

My personal view is I dont see a tank as healthy if it doesnt get its weekly changes,and I do 50% on them.These are tanks with low stocking,heavy planting and canister filters.I dont see the need to do a complete tear down on any cycled tank as its more detrimental than anything unless you have a horrid disease where you have to scrub it all down.Of course this is one main reasoning for qt,but not everyone sees that i suppose.

As for whos method,well its mine lol.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

williemcd said:


> On a final note...or two.. I feel a lot of folks either get intimidated about the amount of effort some promote for fish keeping and another group that live for the micro-management of fish-keeping. Hell, go to your local pet-co/smart and you'll see almost as many drugs/chems as you would find at your local drug-store!... Great for profits to the suppliers, so much b.s. for the hobbiest.
> 
> My only chemical input is Prime for top-off's... K.I.S.S. Bill in Va.


I feel water changes ARE normal practices. The Walstad method requires plants. I could argue that there is more intimidation to keeping plants than simple draining and refilling with water. At least there is not much to learn to drain and fill with water. Plants have special requirements...if nothing else, adequate lighting. This isn't even something you get when you buy your typical aqaurium kit that many people start with. If you have no plants, no way you can go without changes unless you are just asking for trouble down the road.

For me personally, the technically difficult parts of what I do I bring on myself but I am also okay with it. Just as easy to go back, but I like being able to grow any plant there is, watching the bright greens and reds from adequate dosing of ferts and CO2, and whatever else you get from taking your plants to a whole other level. There are some limits to low/medium lighting and no CO2.

So your ph remains fairly stable and stays at a 6.6-6.8 level? That's cool. Do you use anything for water flow? Also, you mention a vacuum every two weeks. Can you do that without removing water?

Good luck on your Angel breeding. Sounds like a nice setup.


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## ProudWitch (Dec 6, 2011)

Each week I vaccum my gravel, wipe the inside glass, and do a 30-50% water change. If any of the decorations need it, I take them out and clean off. It doesn't take long if you do it weekly cause there's not much build-up and I have a skinny water hose/vaccum system that not only sucks the gunk off the gravel, but I just flip a switch and I can put fresh water in the tank from the hose. It attaches to my kitchen sink.


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## Summer (Oct 3, 2011)

I do 50% weeksly water changes, as it just seems healthier to flush the tank with fresh clean water....also...if you dose dry ferts this is almost imperative so that stuff doesnt build up in the tank, correct?


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## dog_bones (Apr 30, 2011)

cagey59 said:


> My 36 gallon tank is one year old and is doing very well. Five gallon water changes have been done bi weekly or monthly. I am wondering if the tank should get a thorough cleaning by removing the fish and washing the gravel, plastic plants and other decorations. Over the past year I have removed everything from the tank three times and rinsed and rubbed off algae and other discoloring materials. During the water changes I use a siphon to clean the gravel.


20% water changes are usually best. I use the Happy Fish Water Changing System and add NovAqua Plus to the water when I am re- filling.

You can get your Happy Fish here. *********************** Wrightway Aquarium Products, LLC - Home


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## nimrod 1 (Dec 28, 2011)

It seems like a lot of people are doing a lot of large water changes. I guess if that is what works for you or if you have a large fish load then go for it. I have never done more than 25% biweekly changes and rarely had a problem, and I would rarely ever pull out decorations or equipment for a scrubbing, you risk removing the good bacteria. Anyway this is just my two cents and I'm not saying that everyone should do it like me, I just can't believe that these large,frequent water changes are nessesary unless you have a heavy fish load.


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## Alasse (Mar 12, 2009)

As long as you leave the substrate alone, pulling out the decor and scrubbing it will cause no issues, nowhere did i state to pull out and scrub your equipment, though scrubbing your heater and outside of you filter unit will again cause no harm, just dont mess with the media

I dont have a large fish load, but due to me only water changing monthly, larger changes are needed. I dont believe large water changes are needed weekly thats for sure, unless you have a tank that overstocked or not running properly.

But like you the above is purely my opinion, like it or lump it


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

nimrod 1 said:


> Anyway this is just my two cents and I'm not saying that everyone should do it like me, I just can't believe that these large,frequent water changes are nessesary unless you have a heavy fish load.


If you have a high-tech tank and dose ferts using the estimative index (EI) method, you do 50% water changes to reset your nutrient levels. EI is based off of not having any limiting factors for maximum plant growth and health. So you overdose the water column and then reset every week. Bio load doesn't always matter.


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## nimrod 1 (Dec 28, 2011)

Well,there you go, I know nothing of high tech tanks. I stand corrected, I guess there is a good reason to do large frequent water changes. I've been out of the aquarium game for about 4 or 5 years. I guess a lot has changed.


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## BBradbury (Apr 22, 2011)

Good morning...

Have been following this thread and it's amazing how tolerant and adaptable tropical fish are. I've read about tanks that get minimal water changes. My friend Dave, the "old water keeper" told me the old way to keep tanks was the older the water was in the tank, the better. Old water in undisturbed tanks meant the plants took over filtration and the fish just got used to unfiltered water. The only thing that needed to be done was to top off the tank periodically due to evaporation. Over a long time, the fish got used to infrequent, small or no water changes and the increasing quantities of pollutants, particularly nitrites. If that's the type of environment your fish have gotten used to, then a large water change could be deadly, even though the new water would be much better.

I've learned over the years that my tanks will basically run themselves if I just keep the water pure. I do my large, frequent water changes and don't have to spend a lot of money on heavy filtration, because the filters are just filtering water that's already clean. Another plus is, I never have to test the water chemistry, because I know there's no time for pullutants to build up before the next large water change.

Just an opinion. Above everything else, have fun!

B


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