# Sick Powder blue



## raven010 (May 19, 2011)

hello everyone I really need some help, I just bought a Powder blue fish and he is not doing good at all he has white things all over him can someone please help


----------



## raven010 (May 19, 2011)

attached are some pic of my sick powder blue tang I just got last night


----------



## e-zlight (Mar 20, 2011)

Pics are blurry, kinda hard to get good ones.

Is she eating?

Is she flashing? (Bouncing off rocks?)


----------



## raven010 (May 19, 2011)

No he is not eatting and all it does is lay on the bottom


----------



## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Are you able to isolate the fish? (hospital tank)
If not use a large bucket, airstone, and heater, raise temp to 86
Be very careful with the temp in a small container.
Add NovAqua to tank and bucket.
You may have to temp treat your tank as well.


----------



## theguppyman (Jan 10, 2010)

I dont think this is the right area for this question maybe a moderator can move it to a correct area,
Edit: Okay now its in the right spot thanks Susan


----------



## Kaiden32 (Sep 4, 2010)

If there are white spots it sounds like ich to me. You will want to isolate it and treat it, and you will probably want to treat your main tank too.


----------



## Ben (Nov 6, 2010)

Your fish has ich. Tangs are notorious for it. You will have to establish a "hospital" tank to save it. I suppose a bucket is possible, but a 20 gallon aquarium is best. Treat with copper or another ich treatment per the directions on the label. Do water changes and testing just like the directions on the medication, or your fish will die. I'm not trying to be scary, I'm being honest. Also, a quarantine process is critical to a successful saltwater display tank. All new fish should be quarantined 4 weeks before introducing it to your display tank. It doesn't have to be complicated, the simpler, the better when it comes to quarantine. I won't go on and on about quarantine, but a final thought. When you take in a new tang, immediately treat for ich in your quarantine, even if symptoms don't show up right away. If you receive a clownfish, treat for brooklynella (clownfish syndrome) as well. If you have other fish in your display with the infected tang right now, keep a close eye on them. You will have to quarantine and treat them if the infection spreads. The corals in your display tank cannot handle ordinary treatments. Now, I bought a treatment called "No-Ich" by Fish Vet, Inc. They claim it is safe for invertebrates, is copper free and malachite green free as well. Luckily for me, I haven't had to use it. I would do that as a last resort if all other measures fail, or you can't get a quarantine/hospital tank set up in time. Your fish doesn't have long, days, not weeks. As a last note, then I will get off my high horse, if you are able to set up a hospital tank, ensure you keep ammonia levels as close to nonexistent as you can. Your tang will not be able to take the ich, treatment for the ich and ammonia, it will be too much. Good luck and keep us updated on your progress!


----------



## archer772 (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree with Ben but also would like to know what size tank hes in how long has it been setup and what are you trying to feed it. I would try feeding it some brine mixed with garlic and yes I know they are herbivores but you need to get some kind of food into him.


----------



## e-zlight (Mar 20, 2011)

Do not wait to treat. Setup a QT tank, combined with a fresh water dip,

And do it quick. I just lost all my fish over the last week, my last one was the trigger, and he went this morning.


----------



## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

I'll say it again.... Use temp to treat. Ich cannot survive in higher temp. Not anything can be done when it is in the stage where it is attached to the fish. Fresh Easter dip will help.
NovAqua will help immensely!!! To alleviate the fish discomfort.
I stopped using chemicals long ago to treat ich. It's to hit or miss, especially in saltwater.
The freshwater dip is similar to saltwater dip for FW fish.
Osmotic reaction will help to kill the ich in the attached Trophozite stage.
FOR SALTWATER CRYPTOCARYON;




Hyposalinity Method

A low salinity of 1.009 specific gravity causes the most of the Cryptocaryon tomonts to rupture, killing them. This is method that I have used in the past with so-so results, HOWEVER I found that I was not lowering the specific gravity (salinity) enough as I only lowered the specific gravity to 1.015, which I have now found to be too high to work correctly, I now know that one must lower specific gravity to 1.009 for this method to achieve better results.
Higher bony marine fish maintain their osmotic concentration at about one quarter to one third that of sea water. In normal sea water, these fish have a tendency to lose water from their gills due to osmosis and also in their urine. Fish have to drink a lot of water to make up for the loss, however, as the water contains a lot of salt (35‰) they must remove the excess salt from their system. The sodium and chloride ions are secreted by the gills and magnesium and sulphates are excreted in urine. This is an active process and requires energy much like the energy required to keep warm blooded animals warm.
When fish are under stress, one of the processes that is affected is ion regulation. This means they have difficulty adjusting the concentration of ions such as sodium, chloride, etc. Lowering the salinity of the tank water makes the concentration of ions closer to that of the fish’ internal fluids and reduces the fish’ efforts to maintain the correct concentrations.

This method is best carried out in a separate tank if sharks, ray, or any other invertebrates are present as Sharks and rays may not survive hyposalinity due to their unique method of osmoregulation. They have similar concentrations of salts to higher bony fish however, they also have very high concentrations of organic compounds which gives their internal fluids the same osmotic concentration as sea water, while marine invertebrates have the same osmotic concentration as the surrounding water.

If you have a fish only or a FOWLR tank you may treat with this method in the display tank, keeping mind that any copepods or other invertebrate life forms living in the live rock may be killed by this method, however the bacteria in the live rock will survive and you may save some of these life forms in the live rock by moving some of these life forms along with selected live rock to a separate holding aquarium during this treatment.

For best results, this method should be employed for 4-6 week period. It is VERY important that pH and alkalinity be monitored during this period and maintained to prevent additional stress.
You should enter this hyposalinity treatment slowly from your specific gravity of 1.019 -1.025 to 1.009 over a 48 hour period using RO/DI or even de-chlorinated tap water and/or water changes using low salt water mixes (such as 1.005 salt mixes). 
PLEASE note that the freshwater used to replace the saltwater is often too low in alkalinity (KH) and minerals and this can add to the stress of the fish (especially sensitive fish such as sharks/rays), so it is imperative that this water have added carbonates and minerals to ensure that in trying to kill the ich infestation, you do not add to osmoregulation problems for the fish. Products such as SeaChem Marine Buffer can be useful for this. Please read these articles for more about this issue:


----------



## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Um so yeah I copied that last bit....as reference


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I moved this thread to saltwater diseases


----------



## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Sorry for delayed follow up to my last post...
I found that info online as reference of alternative way to treat without chem.
My original source is from the late 90's early 80's so I have no idea what I may have done with any of it.
There is also alot of scientific evidence of using heat to both speed up the cycle of Ich, and destroy it. This is what most dealers and collectors use.
As mentioned before some fish are notorious for thier susceptibility to Ich, this is often because they are easily stressed. 
I know I keep talking about NovAqua (I wish they would sponsor me...LOL) but it works wonders. And adding a heavy dose with new fish reduces stress immensely. I've used other aloe bassed product, but I like it best.
I hope this all helps


----------



## Ranger (May 20, 2011)

The triangle shape on the pictures of the fish caught my eye, bit hard to tell what the triangle shape was, is it part of the fishes markings or is it skin that is peeling away.

If it is skin peeling away it will more than likely be Marine Velvet but again the pictures are blurry so it is hard to tell.

If it is part of the markings it will be more than likely Ich is the skin is peeling I would guess Marine Velvet which means you need to act really fast.

Either way a QT with Copper treatment would be the easiest way, for Ich Hypo-Salinity does work but can be a real pain to administer properly as the Salt level drops some of the stats can start to bounce about you will need to maintain Ph which is why my weapon of choice would be a copper treatment, also forget about raising the heat for Ich it doesn't work with Saltwater Ich, heat only works for Freshwater.

Freshwater and Saltwater Ich are 2 different beasts with only 2 things in common the first being the name and the second being the whitespots.

If it is Marine Velvet then you can forget about the heat treatment and Hypo-Salinity as both are worthless the only way is to get a Copper based Medicine and treat outside the Main Tank, Marine Velvet looks like Ich except the skin will peel giving a Velvet look hence the name Marine Velvet.

Some Medicines claim to be reef safe but seem to work for some and not for others, a lot of experienced reefers will tell you if it is not copper based then it won't kill Ich, most have some other chemicals mixed in so the fish may look as if it is getting better when infact the Medicines has only eased them, a bit like taking a pain killer it is fine at the start but when it wears off you are back to the start again.

Moving the fish to a QT will stress it out so it can be dangerous but on the same note if moving it to a QT stressed it enough to kill it the chances are it was on its last legs anyway.

Treat all your Fish as it will only be a matter of time before the rest are infected and even if you QT the current fish and get rid of it you will only be putting it back into a tank to get it again.

Set up a QT tank there is a few different ways of doing it, use water from the Main Tank, Mix up some fresh water, you can use RO water but since this is only a temp thing you could use Tap Water but I wouldn't recommend this as your Salt will be designed to be used with RO water, some will say don't use water from the Main Tank as it has Parasites in it but to be honest this isn't really an issue as whatever course of treatment you use the parasite is going to be dieng soon anyway, if the water from the Main Tank has not been kept properly then a Fresh Mix would be the way to go as there is no point in treting the fish in bad water

I like using water from the Main Tank as it means you will be giving the main tank a good water change at the same time, if you have a 15 Gallon QT then you will need to mix up the salt for it, I would rather save the salt for the Main Tank and Nuke the Parasites coming over in the QT, again it's your call both ways aren't the wrong way.

You could do a Freshwater dip this really depends on the state of the fish if it looks pretty bad it may be best to skip this if it doesn't look to bad it may be an idea to consider, you may not also feel comfortable doing a Freshwater Dip either again something to think about.

for the QT you don't need water movement just a Heater and some form of filtration along with somewhere for the fish to hide and sleep at night anything will do I see a lot of QT tanks with plant pots in them, if you have the cash to spare and go with a Copper Treatment then you could sacrifice some of your Live Rock for this.

Also if you go with a Copper Treatment anything in the QT would need cleaned properly there is a few articles online to tell you how to clean them, I used the heater I use to heat up my saltwater mixes in a QT tank before and still use it to heat up my Saltwater mixes and have had no problems anything that can't be cleaned properly goes in the bin or kept for the QT if it is needed again.

Keep the fish in QT for 8 weeks and let the Main Tank sit with nothing in it, there is different views on how long a tank should be kept fishless some say 6 weeks others say 8 weeks, I would just play it safe and go for the 8 weeks after all whats 2 weeks.

Docpoppi said NovAqua for helping with stress, API has brought out a product called Melafix which will do the same job some LFS call it Dope for Fish as they chill out when it is put in the tank, Ive heard stories of folks who put it in their tank anytime they get a new fish just so all the fish are nice and relaxed for a new arrival and the new arrival goes into the tank chilled out.


----------



## raven010 (May 19, 2011)

Thank you all for the great information but the fish but it did not make the night.


----------



## DocPoppi (Mar 4, 2011)

Sorry to hear the news...


----------

