# Partial Water Change Theory



## schabiazabi (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi,

I did not have fish for 15 years and I setup fish 4 days ago using (pipe chlorine) water for the first time. Tons of problems and tons of mistakes on my part. Quick research online help me a bit, but I quickly ran into a problem. Here it is:

In the beginning I setup the tank and I added few tablets to help my water cycle. Everything was great except ammonia reading at 2.0. I decided to do partial water changes. After two partial water changes (20%) every day I noticed something my ammonia not coming down at all. This made me think the entire partial water change in the new setup tank makes zero sense, or I do not know something else that I did not test. 

My partial water change did not help remove the ammonia, but I'm sure it added more chlorine to the water plus it removed 20% of good bacteria. Can you please tell me what is the partial water change good for chemically? If my ammonia did not drop, how is the partial water going to change the tank for better?

Please help and tell me what am I missing? 

Thank in advance


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## Kaosu (Nov 13, 2010)

Test your tap water, that could be the source of you ammonia.


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## schabiazabi (Jan 24, 2011)

Kaosu, you're smart, why I never thought of that one? The bad news is I just checked and tab water is good. I will do one more partial water change now and check afterwards.


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Doing water changes and removing the ammonia from your system during the cycle process will, in effect, extend the cycle time of your aquarium. Unless you have livestock in the aquarium that will be killed from the raised ammonia levels, I would not do further water changes and simply let the system run its course and fully complete the nitrogen cycle. Also, make certain that you're adding a water conditioner to your water to remove that chlorine. It's nasty stuff, and you definitely don't want it in there, as it can kill fish and the bacteria you want to cultivate during the cycle.


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## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

In cycling you are trying to build up a bacteria population that will transform Ammonia (toxic) quickly into Nitrite (toxic) and then Nitrate (non-toxic). The Ammonia level should initially be high then drop to near zero. To take out part of this Ammonia takes away some of the food these bacteria need and slows down the cycling process. You shouldn't have to worry about your fish during cycling if you don't have very many of them, they are small and they are tough. Partial water changes need to be made at the end of the cycling process to remove the builtup nitrates.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

If you don't have tap water conditioner, I highly suggest you get some and start treating your tap water. Tap water conditioner is also called tap water dechlorinator, and some will both remove chlorine and break the chloramine bond. If there is one chemical I would say every fishkeeper needs, it is this one bar none.

Treat your tank with dechlorinator, but only do so once to neutralize what chlorine is in the tank. After that, only treat the water you're adding fresh out of the tap - avoid dosing the tank after the initial dose, dose the bucket as your tap is filling it instead. This allows better mixing of the dechlorinator and the water, so that when it is introduced into the tank it is fully dechlorinated.

Also, don't overdose on dechlorinator. In excess, dechlorinator has the adverse side effect of removing oxygen in the water.

My personal favorite dechlorinator is API Tap Water Conditioner. It's great stuff.

Hope this helps with your chlorine problem


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## schabiazabi (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the information. I am nicely surprised at the info coming out and I already see my mistakes, but first here is my setup.

1. Tank 10G
2. Fish count: 27. 12 bigger fish (sordtail, guppy, molly, platy). 15 small mollies that were born 3 days ago on day 2.
3. I do not overfeed.
4. Temp 78
5. Filter: PENGUIN Bio Wheel 100
6. Added WaterClarifier TETRA
7. Added AmmoniaSafe TETRA
8. Added AquaSafe TETRA after I added chlorined water in (I'm assuming this is wrong)
9. Added Correct PH7 TETRA
10. PH is 8 (My PH test seems very weak so the reading is off as the test is for pond)
11. Ammonia is 2.0
12. 40% of fish is sitting in the back by the bottom
13. The initial fish died next day, but the second wave of fish is alive
14. For Testing Ammonia I'm using API Ammonia NH3/NH4 + Test Kit
15. Tab water was not Ammonia
16. I do not know if my water carries chloramines.
17. Source water is public water (pipe - New Jersey (USA))
18. I did not dechlorinator before adding water. I added AquaSafe (TETRA) after adding water with chlorine into the tank.
19. Missing API Master Test Kit. Will buy one tomorrow.

"Treat your tank with dechlorinator, but only do so once to neutralize what chlorine is in the tank. After that, only treat the water you're adding fresh out of the tap - avoid dosing the tank after the initial dose, dose the bucket as your tap is filling it instead. This allows better mixing of the dechlorinator and the water, so that when it is introduced into the tank it is fully dechlorinated."
Super Helpful.


Thanks so much for help.


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## Kaosu (Nov 13, 2010)

you might want to cut your stock back that is way over stocked for a 10 gallon,and plattys are brackish fish that prefer salt in the water.

i would say cut your population in half with the fry you will be getting from the mixed group, this would help with your water quality and maintenance 

maybe 5-7 of the larger fish instead of 12, with the numbers you have i would say 50% water change every few days, once a week min.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

1. Tank 10G
2. Fish count: 27. 12 bigger fish (sordtail, guppy, molly, platy). 15 small mollies that were born 3 days ago on day 2.

That is most likely why your ammonia is not coming down.I am sure its been said,but i skimmed briefly so ill just add my own thoughts.

First off,i think a ten gallon is the most useful as a quarantine or single species tank for the obvious reasoning.Its very small volume,way too small for a nice community,but easy to cycle and easy to medicate(hence the quarantine route)A larger tank will be more stable.

For your particular setup,the types of fish chosen are very easy to spawn,and soon will lead to overcrowding.Swordtails and mollies will cross breed(as I am sure you know)And the females can continue to have babies even without males,as they hold sperm for about six months.So if you are going to be housing males and females,i suggest you talk with your local pet store,and set up a possible fry trade for credit.

My dechlorinator is nothing special.Its jungle Start Right.Ive been using it for years and though it does nothing for ammonia(which you dont necessarily need as your ammonia is from the fish not the tap)and has aloe to help soothe any injuries.

I do weekly 50% changes on my 25,but its understocked.With the ammount of fish you are housing,you will need to up your changes to about 35% every few days,and keep a very close eye on the ammonia,nitrite and nitrates.Do not mess with PH buffers,as this will stress fish even more.They can become accustomed to ph thats out of their ideal,but not constantly fluctuating ph.

Another thing to help your water quality,is live plants.Theres several out there that will grow under stock lighting and in plain gravel.Even a golfball tuft of java moss will help,and that stuff grows really easy.
I guess the short of what i am saying is:
you need a larger tank for your fish or need to cut way back on the numbers you have now,do more waterchanges,buy a dechlorinator,chlorine is like bleach.and leave the ph be.

Oh and the chloramines,the jungle i mentioned takes care of that as well as chlorine as i think most dechlorinators do,but read the labels.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Wow, a lot of fish for such a small tank.

The reason ph up/down products are not good is that the natural buffers in your water will drive your ph back to its original value within a couple of hours. These buffers are what keep our ph stable and ph cannot be changed safely without removal of those buffers. The resultant dip and rise of ph can kill your fish and once the ph is back to where it was originally, you're left with a tank with chemicals in it that did nothing. None of it is good for your fish. 

Most fish just need a more stable ph over a particular value and most will acclimate to what your's is coming out of the tap.


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## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

schabiazabi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I did not have fish for 15 years and I setup fish 4 days ago using (pipe chlorine) water for the first time. Tons of problems and tons of mistakes on my part. Quick research online help me a bit, but I quickly ran into a problem. Here it is:
> 
> ...


IMHO partial water changes will not prevent build ups in a tank unless you are doing massive (2-3 100%) daily changes. What you need to do IMHO is to get the tank itself maintaining conditions. then the water changes are irrelevant.

In your case you need to stop adding chemicals. Ammonia locks make the ammonia safe(r) but normal test kits still test for ammonia. The danger is you add more lock, still test +, etc etc etc. each time the lock also locks up oxygen degrating the tank. Just stop adding the chemicals and see where the tank is actually operating at.

I add plants to consume ammonia and nitrates while the aerobic bacteria builds up. Preventing ammonia spikes. Then with full bacteria nitrates will drop because the plants are then getting nitrogen from the nitrates not the ammonia.

IMHO your ammonia should be coming from the bioload not your input water. Especially if you stop using the chemicals and stop doing water changes.


my .02


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## Scuff (Aug 10, 2010)

Kaosu said:


> you might want to cut your stock back that is way over stocked for a 10 gallon,and plattys are brackish fish that prefer salt in the water.


Sorry, but I just want to make a correction here. Platies are not brackish fish, but they do prefer a little more salt in their water than, say...tetras.

OT, I'm going to agree with what everyone else is saying about the amount of fish in your aquarium: it's way too many. Cut that back to a little lower than half of what you have now, and you should see your ammonia issues start to slowly recede.


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## schabiazabi (Jan 24, 2011)

I have bought the suggested test kit from API and Amquel+.
Here are my results from today before water change

Temp 80
PHP: 8.2
Ammonia: 2.0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 0


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

schabiazabi said:


> Temp 80
> PHP: 8.2
> Ammonia: 2.0
> Nitrite: 0.25
> Nitrate: 0


Your temp is a little high in my opinion (others will disagree I'm sure), and the fact that you have zero nitrate worries me extremely. How long has the tank been set up? My first suspicion is that your tank has not developed a nitrogen cycle yet, and the fact that you haven't been dechlorinating your water might be to blame for that. Be very careful or you risk losing the majority of your fish population, as overcrowded as it is right now. What I would strongly advise is that you pick 10 of your favorite fish to leave in the tank and donate the rest if your pet store will take them back. I know you probably don't want to, but if you don't in my opinion you will have more fish fatalities no matter what you do. If you're cool with killing fish, then that's fine for you, but me personally when I lose a fish it hurts me a little bit. Depends on what you're comfortable with.


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## schabiazabi (Jan 24, 2011)

I will upgrade to 30G in 2 days. I did change 60% of water and ammonia is now at 0.5
It was set up about 5 days ago.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sounds like you may have gotten things under control for now. Test the water for ammonia and nitrites daily until the tank has completely established the cycle and all the beneficial bacteria is in place. Since you are starting to see nitrites already, you should see a decrease in ammonia accompanied by an increase in nitrites.


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