# 1st newbie question



## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm cycling a 20G using Stability...I've used it before with great success but I used a cpl of small comet goldfish then and now I have no fish...just using fish food. I'm on my 3rd day & my ammonia is 0.25...my MTS will arrive in the mail tomorrow & I'm not sure whether to put them in or not. Should I keep 'em in a bowl & do 100% WC's daily using Prime or will they be ok during the cycle? Also, my tap water has a pH of 7.4 but went up to 8.4 after 24 hrs in my tank...after I added an old piece of driftwood I had, is now down to 8 after 24 hrs...since I've used this driftwood before, I may have to go down to the river & find a different piece. The only other things in my tank are Flourite Black Sand & 2 double sponge filters...my plants are at the post office for me to pick up now & will go right in. Water temp is 76. This tank will be the home for 3 mystery snails a some yellow shrimp...I plan on waiting a bit for the shrimp, until I feel the tank is stable...when do you think it'd be ok to add the mystery snails since they're messy critters.


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## dalfed (Apr 8, 2012)

Having only the snails and shrimp you may never see a cycle. Remove the fish food and do a large water change and put the snails in. Keep an eye on it but I will be surprised if you ever see any ammonia / nitrite readings.


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## big b (Jun 28, 2014)

i say add a a bit of fish food over a few days or week then i say test water then come back but we will guide you through it but no fish or anything for now. dont go to the pet store to "browse" the fish we all did it and came home with a fish. so dont do it.


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks. I really appreciate your help.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Using fishfood is an old school method for fishless cycling that I have used before.The main issue with it is there is no control over how fast the food breaks down(all food is different along with water)leaving you no control over the amount of ammonia created.It could be 0 for a week or even longer and then suddenly rise quickly and unpredictably.For just a shrimp and snail tank i agree with dalfed and say start with fresh water (and the stability if you like)and just monitor your water quality.Make water changes if your ammonia or nitrite get to 1 ppm.
I would let tank mature with the snails for a month or so before trying shrimp,they prefer a mature stable system with little to no flucuation or nutrients.


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks coralbandit...& thanks again, dalfed . Tomorrow, before the snails arrive I'll replace the water...I will use the Stability and keep checks on the water. One of the sellers where I bought plants knew I planned on getting some small mystery snails & sent 3 pea sized light foot purple babies with the plants. I'll put all the snails in and wait on the shrimp until the tank matures. Right now the mystery snails are in Prime treated water floating in a baggie in the tank. It makes me feel so much better hearing this from people who know...thank you both.


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## woody019 (Oct 4, 2012)

All great information! Like said above monitor your ammonia and nitrites while cycling the tank especially with the snails in it. Ammonia in particular is very toxic to invertebrates and don't tolerate it very well. But they will be fine with you monitoring the levels and keeping up with water changes. Don't mean to make you panic but I thought it would be useful for you to know. 

As far as your PH don't worry about it just monitor your nitrogen cycle byproduct levels. But if your interested in knowing why your PH went up after adding it to the tank. The reason without going into great detail is that water right out of the tap has very low oxygen levels and high in carbon dioxide (lowers PH). So what happened in those 24hrs with your sponge filters agitating the water surface the water became rich in oxygen and low in carbon dioxide which raised your PH. Then when you added the driftwood knowing it would bring the PH down and it did a little. Driftwood no matter how new or used it is will not bring down the PH by 1 unit. But again don't worry about the PH until your tank matures and stabilizes.

An easy fix to your PH problem that I can almost guarantee will get your tap water dang near the same as your tank is to match the temp close to the tank temp and throw an airstone into the WC bucket and let it run for 24hrs. Thatll oxygenate your tap water and raise the PH to close to the same as your tank. Thats not taking into account if you add driftwood into the tank that'll lower the tank PH but not by a significant amount to worry about. 

On a side note though, someone correct me if I'm wrong but shrimp and snails can thrive in wide ranges of PH. So that means don't worry about getting your PH to a specific value as it is unessary with your livestock (fish like discus or cichlids would be a different story) just let your tank PH be the PH of oxygenated tap water and all will be well. You'll do more harm to your tank inhabitants trying to use buffers to get your PH to a specific value on a small water volume. A little mistake by you will result in a large and dramatic change in the tank.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Woody gives good advice.The pH is not important.I'm not a snail or shrimp expert but IMO they create their exoskelton from minerals in the water.Low pH water is often low in minerals(Total Disolved Solids{TDS}) and therfore not the best for inverts.Far more inverts in marine water then fresh and marine is loaded with TDS and minerals(pH going upto 8.4 for reefers).
He is also correct on how to prep your water.An airstone in even a 5g bucket overnight should bring your tap right in line with the tank making waterchanges much safer.I prep all my water in large barrels with air and powerheads(heaters in the winter).


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

WOW...you guys give great advise...my friend is on the way to the PO right now to get my MTS...I'll acclimate all the snails very slowly to the now 8.2 pH tank water...if you hadn't told me all this, my poor snails might have lived their lives out in a baggie.( I never use chemicals to lower pH...have heard horror stories about doing it.) I have a 2x2" round airstone that I'll put in a 5G bucket of tap water right now & start using this method for water changes. I live in southern IN, the limestone capital of the world I think...our water has no chance of being anything but high, that's why I was surprised that it was even 7.4 from the tap. Thank you both for this great info...I had 11 tanks set up 3 yrs ago and sure didn't know this...had 55G, 40G angelfish, 55G mnuba cichlids, 2 30G & 3 20G & 2 10G shrimp & mystery snails, & a 20G with shell dweller cichlids...my tank pH was 8.0 then. I always heated part of the WC water in the microwave & added to the bucket till the bucket water felt the same as the tank water then treated it all with Prime...never once thinking about the difference in the tap pH. I did 1/4 WC's weekly & twice weekly for my angels...guess I was just under the line on shocking them...or I just got lucky. Geez...thank you so much...I love to learn...& the reason I got rid of all my fish is my age & health.(..& now I have CRS...so I AM a newbie). I can enjoy them now w/o worrying that I'm gonna kill 'em. (If you don't what CRS is, PM me...LOL.)


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

OK...all the little guys are in the new water...I did the emptying & refilling last night 'cause I knew it would take a bit if I wasn't gonna stir up the Flourite Black Sand...used the plate method both times & with great success...but I only have a 20G...& filling was lots easier than emptying...easy...easy...go slow. It was nice to see 0 ammonia this morning but yep, my pH was up. But after talking with you all, I'm sure enjoying this start up lots more. I use a lot of the double sponge filters so used them to cycle tanks before...that or filter media from an established tank...was gonna use small comet goldfish this time & then put 'em in the year old pond here at the place I just moved to...I did this when I started my 1st 55G years ago...worked great and after a few yrs I had some beautiful goldfish in my pond over a foot long. This time online i could either buy 100 fish or 1 for $20 with $40 shipping...huh...you gonna carry that fish here? But...all the snails seem happy...the MTS are either burrowing or, like the baby mystery's, are cruising. I'll keep a close eye on the parameters...the API testing kit is sure easier to use now. I'll put a piece of boiled cucumber in for a bit tomorrow for the Mystery snails & do a tiny pinch of spirulina powder...but right now I want the MTS find any pieces of old fish food that I didn't get out...hope that's a workable plan. Once again, thank you for taking the time to help...I've really missed my wet friends & the 20G will be housing my favorites....nothing beats watching a bright yellow shrimp riding on a magenta Mystery snail. : )


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

Didn't know if I should ask this here or start a new thread but here it is...After about 4 daZe I still have 0.25 ammonia & 0 nitrites & 0 nitrates. I understand that with very little bioload (20 baby MTS & 3 pea sized mystery snails) I may never actually cycle my 20G tank but I would think I would see some difference by now...or when should I see it? Will I never see any nitrates? This is so weird to me...always 'before' I watched my nitrates to make sure they stayed between 10-20...I'm not sure what to watch for now. I have subwassertang and hornwort in the tank...more plants in quarantine...all the snails seem very happy...eating the offering of the day each day...either a boiled piece of cucumber, yellow squash or a green bean...I did a light dusting of spirulina powder about 3 days ago...that's everything that's been put in the tank. What do I test for...what do I need to see to know I'm ok? Thanks ahead for your help.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

It sounds like things are going great!
You will get nitrAtes eventually, don't hope for them unless ammonia and nitrItes get over 1 ppm.Your BB will grow slow with just snails and what sounds like a very proper feeding.Many go well over a month(some over 2) when cycling with "fish in",and have a huge waterchange burden.You seem all good so far.When you get to 1ppm or close enough for you then you can change water,but I would think you got it going on the easy(hopefully satifying way) so far!


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## Judy Lawson (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks so much...in a few weeks I'll add 10 shrimp...& keep checking.


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## DVader (Jan 19, 2014)

This past January, I tried cycling our 5 gallon with two Rosy Red Minnows, as suggested by LFS, but that didn't work. Took the minnows back to the LFS. Next day, done a 50% w/c and put in a bottle (3.38oz) of Tetra SafeStart (as recommended by a member w/plenty of aquarium experience). Waited one day, bought our male Betta and put in. Today our tank is 100% cycled and we have a "tickled pink" Betta! 

I add a 3.38oz bottle of Safestart every 3 months after doing a filter change. We have a Bio-Filter, which means we have two filters. The Bio filter doesn't get changed, but the carbon-filled filter does.


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