# Plants not doing well, need help



## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

I have been struggling with my planted tank for nearly a year now. I know that there are so many different factors that contribute to plants doing well or poorly. However, everything put aside, looking at my pictures, without knowing anything else in the set up - what do you think could be contributing to my plants looking as they do? 

The leaves on these plants seem to wilt, and the edges curl under and have splotches of lighter green on them- like they are burnt or getting thin.




After I put them in the tank with in a week the Amazons get holes in the leaves. 



I currently also have Wisteria that is growing crazy roots within a couple of days and seems to be doing mostly ok. And I have some Jungle Val that is growing very quickly but a new plant that just popped up out of the substrate is also going fast, but is a reddish tint.

Any ideas? 

50 Gallon aquarium - I do water changes about every other week - 20%

I have 2 T-5 Hagen bulbs - one is Power Glo and one is Life Glo (store only had 1 Power Glo  ) and it is on for 4 hours then has a 2 hour break then is on another 6 hours.

I use all flourish products:
Flourish Excel daily.
Potassium - I read that this could possibly be a Potassium deficit - so i increased from 2xs a week to 3 times (just last week).
Iron - I was dosing 1x week but last week increased to 2xs
(I thought I would try increasing these for a month to see if I noticed any changes)
Floruish - Macro - 2x week
Flourish Trace - 2x week
I have Flourish Root tabs that I added about 2 weeks ago


I have the Carib Sea Eco Complete Substrate (80lbs).
I use RO water primarily - but about a year and a half ago I started topping off the tank with tap - thinking I was still missing something from the supplements. And when I do a water change I usually do 10G RO and 5 Tap or 15 RO and 5 Tap.

I do not have any CO2 in there, besides excel - my tank was blooming and was amazing for almost a year without it - and then I added some expired (didn't realize at the time) root tabs, and then ended up with seagreen water and ever since then my tank hasn't done well. 

Fish are doing great, water is crystal clear.

When I pull dead plants out the roots on them is usually insanely big and they are usually still alive, but all the plants die and fall off.

Any suggestions?


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## Berylla (Mar 4, 2013)

Amazon swords need iron. I bought some chelated capsule iron pills from the health food store and pour half a pill every water change. Your double T-5's are probably not enough for some of your other plants that require higher light. Check your PH since you are using RO. Rotting plants can cause a PH crash which is would be deadly to your fish.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ya I would check you PH. And what kind of bioload do you have. How many fish? The nitrate/nitrite cycle might not be enough.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks for replying! I just tested ph and it is 7.6. 
Wouldn't the flourish iron and root tabs be enough iron? I need to get an iron test kit but can't find one anywhere. 

Hmm I do only have 78 total watts... What additional bulb should I get then? And why did the tank thrive for a full year with this lighting?

When I add new fish or for most water changes I add cycle. Nitrates have been my biggest issue with this tank- they were at 200 for months and I did water changes weekly for about 4 months & got it down to about 40ppm. Then I went back to every other week & they sky rocketed. That was probably 2 years ago now. They still always seem to be about 100 but I just tested them and is say they are now in the 40-80ppm range. It's do hard to tell the exact color. Our tap water tests about 20ppm which is why I initially switched to ro. 

Fish- 4 serpae tetras, 2 bleeding hearts, 4 green tiger barbs, 3 albino tiger barbs, 8 tiger barbs, 5 flying foxes, bristle nose pleco, and clown pleco.


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Hm, sounds like it should be ok. I would try more lighting. That is a little low on wattage. I just switched to LED lighting and my plants are doing great! I do however on my heavy planted tank also have a plant growing bulb. Not sure anymore the exact specs on it, but it has done really well so I don't mess with it.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

What type of led lights do you use?


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

I am using Marineland. I like that a lot. I have read some reviews that they're are others out there that are better, and I would believe that. However they cost a lot more so, for the price I am very happy. I actually recently bought more from my local Petco, they have them on clearance. So you might check it out.


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## rtmaston (Jul 14, 2012)

i also am using a marineland led with the moonlight it also has a timer for the leds and one for the moonlight.my plants are to dong very good.i do hope this helps.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

There have been many problems with the marineland led fixtures. They short out, flicker and some of the bulbs stop working. I've known a few people that had problems with them. However yesterday I did some research on led vs t5 and the people said that led light fixtures aren't quite developed enough for planted aquariums. Ideas/comments on that? I know everyone has their own experiences...


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

You're stocked pretty heavy for a 50;26 fish and TWO PLECOS! that's why your nitrAtes are high .The plecos create a lot of watse so to me they count as like 10 more fish! Weekly water changes of 33% would seem to be a good minimum start.
The reviews I read on marineland LEDs had 14 out of 17 people had issues with timer,bulb or complete failure.They (marineland)won't consider a "few bulbs" not working to be a warranty issue so be fore warned.I use Current true lumen pro leds and feel they are a bit strong for my fresh water tanks and wonderfull for my salts.
The finnex leds get very good reviews from planted tank keepers.
Purigen(by seachem ) will help with nitrAtes alittle but with high levels (over 40) you'll likely be recharging it bi-weekly or at least every month.It is a great product but does not replace water changes.
50 gallons 36"x18"?
Do you re-mineralise your RO(kent RO right for example)?Much of what is removed by RO along with what you need out(nitrAtes) are things plants really need or want.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

I just added 4 tiger barbs and 4 serpae tetras about 2 weeks ago. These 8 fish are tiny - 3/4 inch to an inch(now). I know it's pretty stocked. The plecos are only about 3 inches and I've had them both about a year. 

Yes the 50 is 36x18 and i think its 22 inches tall- whereas the 40b is only 18"tall. 

I used to use the ro right but then the water was so hard- there was a reason I stopped using it but I don't remember now. Shouldn't adding tap water help return the minerals to the water? 

I will have to look into finnex, I haven't heard of that brand.


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

I cut my RO with tap and it will yeild same results as the remineralisers,but if your tap has nitrates due you want to do that?
I can't testify or say I swear by the RO right stuff as I found it raised my pH right back to where it was before the RO and pH was the reason I was using it to begin with in my DT.I do remineralise my RO for my discus breeding tank but very minimal(1 teaspoom per 5 g).I cut my RO 50/50 with tap for angel breeding tank as they don't desire as low pH.

Being that most fish are small you may be ok with them all for some time ,but your nitrAte test really tells the tale?You either need to stock lighter(all my tanks are basically overstocked{some heavily}) or change water more often.
Many use python/aqueon waterchange systems to ease this burden and they work well.
I fully accredit the fact that my tanks(DT and breeders/fry) are overstocked and healthy to waterchanges.Waterchanges ,regulary and of enough % to remove nutrients(nitrAtes) is the key to healthy tanks.I change alot of water(over 150g in totall today).


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## hotwingz (Mar 3, 2013)

Ya I have been hearing that the Marineland LEDs do have problems on occasion. But my expirience with them to this point has been nothing but great. I also don't have ones with a timer, so that might be part of it


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't have a python because we don't have any faucets upstairs that can hook up to it. I just use a normal syphon and it works well- minus having to dump the 5 gallon buckets. And no I don't like adding the tap water because of the nitrates but I don't know what else to do sonce i didn't like the ro right.

I don't think having nitrates at 60-80 are going to cause the type of damage my plants have. Do you all think my main issue is not enough light?


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## coralbandit (Jul 29, 2012)

Have you replaced the bulbs?Although they may still be lighting,most flourescent bulbs lose their spectrum in 6-12 months.They need to be replaced every year aprox.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

I was originally considering a Finnex RayII fixture for my ten gallon before I found out I could modify the legs on an existing T5HO fixture to fit. Finnex is a great brand from what I've heard.

Also, if you have lumps of extra cash laying around, look into a pressurized CO2 system. If you don't, all that extra light will only go into farming more green water.

Heavy root growth means your plants are starving for nutrients. Plants need nitrogen, carbon, and potassium in large quantities (why they're called "macros"). Nitrates take care of your nitrogen, looks like your potassium is covered both by potassium and macro dosing. However, your carbon might be suffering, from lack of either CO2, bicarbonate, or carbolic acids. Bicarbonate and carbolic acids are present in water with high alkalinity (KH), but plants can most easily use CO2 that's dissolved in the water. The micros might be the other issue, things like iron, magnesium, boron, etc., but between the Flourish, Trace, and root tabs I'd say you're good there. My guess is lack of carbon, but that's just a guess.

You could possibly do a DIY yeast fermentation CO2 system that would save you a lot of money, but you would have to get a good diffuser and gang 3-4 reactor bottles together. Brad (Auban) has had great success with DIY CO2 for larger tanks, and James0816 has written a good thread in the DIY section called "DIY CO2 Made Easy".

Hope this helps!


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## Berylla (Mar 4, 2013)

thestormysky said:


> I don't have a python because we don't have any faucets upstairs that can hook up to it. I just use a normal syphon and it works well- minus having to dump the 5 gallon buckets. And no I don't like adding the tap water because of the nitrates but I don't know what else to do sonce i didn't like the ro right.
> 
> I don't think having nitrates at 60-80 are going to cause the type of damage my plants have. Do you all think my main issue is not enough light?


With such a high nitrate reading I would change at least 50% a 2x a week and redose all ferts. It's cheaper to buy dry ferts. Check out aquariumfertilizer.com.
Changing water often also adds much needed C02 to your aquarium if you use tapwater. Tapwater also adds much needed minerals in your tank. Is there high nitrates in your tap?

With more light, you will need C02, either liquid, or DIY, or pressurized. I would go for the liquid stuff since its easy.

I don't use C02 in my tank since I change out my water every other day.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

There is a site..."WWW.aqadvisor.com". It is helpful to me. You might try it as it gives more than just stocking info as you add your fish. Like compatibility to the other
fish you entered and/or to the tank size etc.
I would suggest that you take the advise you get on there about stocking...first. Then do yourself a favor and put all the medicine in the medicine cabinet. It's 
too much. 95% of what you are adding is already in the Eco-Complete. The Swords may need more iron than the E/C has but your tank is saturated/w chemicals.
Some municipalities use more than one water supply as the supply calls for/demands so check that but find a supply that has a good Ph that is constant if
possible (tap water) and use that. You may need to add R/O to bring down the Ph if you can't find a supply which has a 7-7.6 level.
Personally I would lower my stock till the advisor said to do a 25% water change each week. Do it on the site and then duplicate it in the tank. Then let it
settle for one week and then do 50% water changes* for three more weeks. Then test after about two days. Now you can go to the 25% changes each week.
Take out any/all plants that are in desperate shape. You can leave the Swords. But the ones/w those spots likely should go. The val is ok it's just saturated/w
iron. BTW you can get plants on e-bay but try to stick to U.S. sellers (or from where you are) because of time in freight. mikeswetpets is a good one.
I use these bulbs in T8 and this combo gives my tank hair algae if left on for too many hrs in a day. So the T5's will be enough for all but high light plants.
Zoo Med T-5 HO Ultra Sun Super Daylight Fluorescent Bulb at PETCO
Zoo Med T-5 HO Flora Sun Max Plant Growth Fluorescent Bulb at PETCO ...These are on a 24hr sale now.
Stop being a doctor and become an observer for a while till things settle after you go back to the 25% changes. As stated before the E/C has enough of
everything for the plants except for the Flourish Excel. I use the directed amount of this but every other day instead of every day.
Remove any bad plants at the start of this. Then the stocking reduction. and it should be one month later when you start the 25% changes.
By week three you can order a couple/few plants. Only after 60 days from when you start back on the 25% changes should you add any thing other than
the Excel. Then if the Swords are not growing well you might add some iron only. The Eco-Complete supplies the rest. I used Tetra Pride before I put
my second tank up with a combo of 1/2" of "Pure Laterite" on the bottom covered/w 1.5" of Eco-Complete. Excel and Flora Pride that is.
If you have no high readings on nitrites and ammonia then your filter is working well but if you don't reduce the stocking and the Chemical Warfare(LOL)
you can waste a fortune trying to get that tank straight and never get there.
* That is one 50% change per week for three weeks.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

I haven't heard of that site. I will definitely check it out! 

On a side note- when I first got the Eco-complete i only supplemented with the co2 booster and my plants did terrible so that's why I started to add the supplements, one at a time.


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## z1200 (Jan 26, 2012)

I use the daylight bulbs you can buy in a hardware store in my fluorescent light fixtures, they seem to work great. I only have one 24" bulb on my 30 gal and both the plants and algae still grow at a pretty good rate. The color temp on those bulbs are like 6500k and I'm not sure about the wattage.


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## SueD (Aug 4, 2012)

Just want to add one more point: BN plecos can be very hard on plants like the wider leaved swords. Some of that thinning of these leaves may be due in part to their rasping. Do you have driftwood in there for them? I love BN's and have four in different tanks, but I have experienced this rasping. Rubberlip/pitbull Plecos are more gentle.

This lighting/ferts stuff confuses the heck out of me no matter how much I read, so I can't help much there. I have differing levels of success with my plants and I chalk most of it up to luck. I also once used the entire line of Seachem ferts, following a very well drafted chart someone had done for various tank sizes. I guess I was expecting a miracle turn around that didn't really happen, but consistency is not my strongest asset. I now use Excel almost everyday and Comprehensive once in a while. But I still battle algae. 

I just bought the Finnex FugeRay LED for a new 20 long tank I've set up and I thought the pricing was reasonable and the light is really nice. The tank has only been set up less than a week so I can't say much about how this light will do, but it's been very well reviewed by others. So I have high hopes.


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## thestormysky (Dec 10, 2011)

I do have driftwood in there. I read that it is imperative for plecos. 
I replace my bulbs every December.

It's hard to know where to start. Everyone has so many ideas on what to try or do. I don't want to change too many things at once because then I wouldn't know what the problem is. 

Maybe I will increase water changes and increase the tap water and decrease the supplements. For starters. I am not going to get rid of the fish that I have now. I don't think it's fair to them to just take them back to the store. That website said my tank was 105% stocked. So yes it is over stocked but not terribly. If I up the water changes it should be on. 

I really wish I could find another power glo bulb, but apparently Hagen is repackaging them now so they don't have them now. 

I have thought the amazon leaf damage could be from the fish and plecos....but that doesn't explain the other plant damage.

It's probably a whole mix of endless variables.


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## thabadassone (Apr 4, 2013)

they sell plant growing bulbs for florescent fixtures i added one to my two bulb setup and within a week better more lush growth the color of the tank may change depending on the color of the bulb though.but try looking up the specific plants and see if you are providing what each one needs to flourish.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 11, 2013)

You can get Power Glow at Petsmountain.
Hagen Power-Glo Fluorescent Bulb Aquarium Fluorescent Bulbs
This may also help as it will help to target the problem...
Aquarium Gallery - Nutrientdeficiency
To say the least I doubt that Watts are near as important as spectrum. I've had several small tanks/w only one flo bulb and the plants
and algae in them did well. But they were all plant bulbs. (one was a Power Glow)
Called what your doing chemical warfare and just ordered a Seachem Comprehensive from Petsmountain today...LOL...thought
you might be amused by that. That Petsmountain site sells the Comprehensive for half what Petsmart does...but then you do
shipping so add and make it spread. The "on-lines" have different sales than the stores but unless I have at least two items
that I feel I need I just do the stores except for the plants..much bigger variety on line.


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