# alkalinity vs ph - mine are dropping fast



## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

It seems like everyday i do a test of my water, my alkalinity has dropped, and so has my ph.

I'm no chemist, and everything i've read about alkalinity and ph includes lots of information i have no idea about.

Basically, in general, why would these two measurements drop, and what effect does it have on the tank?

Thanks


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

This is easy, High Ph water IS alkaline rich, where LOW Ph water is Acidic.
7.0 is neutral meaning its neither alkaline or acidic.

Basically if your Alkalinity is dropping it means the Ph is going down as well and vice versa.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> This is easy, High Ph water IS alkaline rich, where LOW Ph water is Acidic.
> 7.0 is neutral meaning its neither alkaline or acidic.
> 
> Basically if your Alkalinity is dropping it means the Ph is going down as well and vice versa.


thanks

what effect does it have on the tank though? obviously the fish have adapted to whatever the ph and alkalinity has been, because i have had zero fish die just randomly. the only fish ive had die were pretty dang sick looking when we put them in


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## zubanhunter (Mar 22, 2011)

There are a number of reasons pH can be low. Check for decaying organic matter (dead fish or plants). Another possibility is build up of CO2, are you injecting? Do you have an air stone or water filter that is agitating the surface (agitating the surface allows release of CO2 from the water into the air).



> what effect does it have on the tank though? obviously the fish have adapted to whatever the ph and alkalinity has been, because i have had zero fish die just randomly


What is your pH at now? At very low levels (5.5-5.8ish) the bacteria that process ammonia don't function which can lead to a build up of ammonia. At low pH the ammonia is less toxic to your fish (but still bad to have around). In general it is better to avoid changes in pH than worry about the specific level.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

My Ph is at 5.8 and my BB is just fine. The good bacteria will still grow in low Ph waters, if it didnt half the amazonia fish wouldnt exist.

Acidic waters inhibit the growth of parasites and gram negative and positive bacterias.


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## zubanhunter (Mar 22, 2011)

> My Ph is at 5.8 and my BB is just fine. The good bacteria will still grow in low Ph waters, if it didnt half the amazonia fish wouldnt exist.


This is true. Bacteria will still grow and nitrification does occur at lower pH. However, the rate of nitrification is significantly impacted by pH. This is primarily due to the exponential decrease in NH3 (and proportional increase in NH4+). 
Reference

The end result though is that low pH is not necessarily bad, but CAN lower the rate of nitrifaction in the tank.


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## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Live plants help this as pretty much eliminate this issue as well.
I cant stick my hands with any cuts or abrasions on them into that tank. It stings like heck.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

WhiteGloveAquatics said:


> Live plants help this as pretty much eliminate this issue as well.
> I cant stick my hands with any cuts or abrasions on them into that tank. It stings like heck.


woah wait a second. this happened to me today as well. i kept thinking i just was scratching myself on something
can u explain this a little more


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Are you referring to your carbonate hardness, meaning your alkalinity? There is a difference between alkaline which refers to your ph, (sometimes called basic to not be confused)and then there is your alkalinity which is your carbonate hardness.

Low alkalinity in your tank can cause ph fluctuations.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

im using the following test strips
Amazon.com: Jungle Labs Quick Dip 6-in-1 Aquarium Test Strips, 100 PK: Kitchen & Dining

and until i destroyed my gf's tank today and had to replace practically everything, my ph and my alkalinity levels were lower than the ph colors would even go

i swear, its always something


but now its a whole new something since my gf is pissed!


also, why would abrasions on ur hand sting in the water? this happened today


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## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

It stings because it is acidic. Pour vinegar on your cuts for a similar effect.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Your alkalinity refers to your water hardness. Is there a water softner on the house?


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Your alkalinity refers to your water hardness. Is there a water softner on the house?


no, but i know exactly why its happening then. the peat moss layer at the bottom. i used beaslbob's substrate layering. would that be whats causing it?


whats a natural way to raise the ph?


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

rtbob said:


> It stings because it is acidic. Pour vinegar on your cuts for a similar effect.


i guess i didnt realize just how acidic it was then
so if an incredibly low ph means its acidic and burns when u have abrasions on ur hand, this means any ick or gunk or bites or scratches on the fish should heal up because of the ph right?


what about a very high ph then, if your ph is really high its obviously not acidic, what are the effects of this on the water and the fish?


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Raising the ph will not matter if your kh or carbonate hardness is low, chances are it will go move again...in either direction - if it is low. You need to get a kh test kit and test your water. Your kh is what keeps your ph stable.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

jrman83 said:


> Raising the ph will not matter if your kh or carbonate hardness is low, chances are it will go move again...in either direction - if it is low. You need to get a kh test kit and test your water. Your kh is what keeps your ph stable.


ok im pretty sure that is on my test strip
ill check it this evening.

how do i manipulate KH in order to keep my ph stable?


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

KH = alkaline buffering capacity, a measure of dissolved carbon compounds in the water. It consists of carbonate, bicarbonate, CO2, and maybe one or two others if my memory serves me. These ionic concentrations have a direct correlation to hydronium ions (I'm probably butchering the names of these molecules, forgive me), which determine your pH level. Low KH means your pH will swing more drastically, but I'm unsure as to why it would lower the pH by itself.

You need a KH/GH testing kit. My favorite is the API KH/GH liquid drip test kit, available here:

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...icals-freshwater-hardness-gh-kh-test-kit.html

If your KH is low or you suspect it of being low, add a mesh bag of crushed coral to your tank to raise the KH and GH.

Do you have live plants in there? Also, how many fish are in there? The only way I've ever heard of pH lowering is by elevated CO2 levels.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Low KH means your pH will swing more drastically, but I'm unsure as to why it would lower the pH by itself.


It won't, but if the kh level is low there is nothing to impede the ph from changing.


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## phys (Feb 4, 2011)

a super simple way to raise kh is by adding a little baking powder. do it in small amounts until your ph and kh are at a decent level. there are other ways to do this that would involve calcium carbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate though. Go to your local fish store and see what they have to help you.


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## sharkattack (Feb 28, 2011)

i did a test last night, and when ive been saying my alkalinity is low, i was referring to my KH. i looked at my test strip closely and that line i was testing says "alkalinity (KH)"

however, after doing such a drastic cleanup yesterday, everything seems to be back to normal

im not injecting any co2 into the tank, so i cant think that would cause anything to go down. 

the only thing i can think of is the layer of peat moss at the very bottom


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

From people who have talked about their tanks with low kh, after a water change the ph is back to where it should be, or was before the drop. As time moves on the ph starts dropping to a certain point and levels off usually.


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## Gizmo (Dec 6, 2010)

sharkattack said:


> i did a test last night, and when ive been saying my alkalinity is low, i was referring to my KH. i looked at my test strip closely and that line i was testing says "alkalinity (KH)"
> 
> however, after doing such a drastic cleanup yesterday, everything seems to be back to normal
> 
> ...


The peat moss at the bottom will boost the buffering capacity, not lower it.

What is your KH reading, by chance? Mine is 6-8 degrees on average.

With no CO2, the low pH in your tank is a mystery to me.

Glad to hear things are back to normal though. Hopefully this won't sneak up on you again.


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## BlackBirdCD (Mar 17, 2011)

This is happening to my tank as well. We finished cycling about three weeks ago, and everything is reading well (Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0.1ppm). We've even successfully added fish back to the community.

But the ph has dropped from a 6.8-7.0 range down to 6.0. We did a 20% water change last night (our tap water is 7.6ph), and it's helped. I've also replaced my filter media which wasn't quite to the end of its life. We'll do another water change this weekend (we vacuum the gravel every time, one section at a time).

Our tank is pretty well aerated. But we do have about 20 Platy fry that are now growing nicely in a containment box, adding to the biological load. I can't imagine they're adding much to the mix and our chemistry is stable.

It's very strange, I don't have a kH test kit, so I'll check into that. Thanks for the tips.


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