# Film on water surface and fin rot...??



## MrsShirley (Nov 25, 2010)

ackgroud Info: 
-- 3 gallon tank
-- 1 betta and 1 mystery snail (mystery snail has been removed for 3 days)
-- heated to 80 degrees
-- 100% water change every 3 days. I rinse all tank contents(heater, decor, gravel, tank walls) with hot tap water before refilling with conditioned and aged water and I also match the water temperature to original temp. before adding the betta back in.
-- water params are always perfectly spot on

Problems:
1. For he past 2 weeks I have noticed a film on the water surface of my betta's tank. On water change day (every 3 days) the film starts to separate into spots. 3 days ago, I removed the snail that has been living with the betta since dec. 9th -- I am still getting the film after removing the snail and thoroughly rinsing all contents of the tank.

2. Over the past 2 weeks as well, the betta's fins have been deteriorating. At first I thought he was tail biting but since he also has pinholes and separation in the fins I'm not sure.

I don't understand how this is happening because I keep my betta's tanks very, very clean. I have another betta in the same conditions with the exceptions of different gravel and never having a snail, and his water is always clear and he is doing fine..

I added aqua culture's natural gravel I got from Wal-Mart the same time I added the snail. 

I took a VERY long time for the water to run clear when rinsing the gravel for the first time...

Here is a picture, you can see the film and his fins..









and here is what he looked like before...


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

add any new decor to the tank recently?

maybe something is leaching into the water


I use that same gravel in my 30 gallon, and as long as it's rinsed well (several times), there shouldn't be any problems with it. it's pretty dusty stuff right out of the bag...


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## M1ster Stanl3y (Dec 10, 2010)

off topic but i have a beta that look just like that...mine had a head that was originally red and slowly lost its color so where it looks just like yours now...


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## inkmaker (Jun 10, 2009)

> -- 100% water change every 3 days. I rinse all tank contents(heater, decor, gravel, tank walls) with hot tap water before refilling with conditioned and aged water and I also match the water temperature to original temp. before adding the betta back in.
> -- water params are always perfectly spot on


I see a big problem here. The water changes are important and necessary. But, you are killing the Bacteria that maintain the Nitrogen cycle by cleaning out and Hot water washing everything. Change the water is fine. The heater, the sides of the tank and anything that is wet is where the Bacteria live. Every time you scrub the stuff you restart the Nitrogen cycle up again and the Bacteria need to reestablish themselves.

Let the tank go unchanged for a week maybe change 1/2 the water in 12 to 14 days. How about aeration? Got an air pump to move the water surface around and turn over the tank water? That would be a good idea. Put the snail back in the tank as long as it is alive.

Good Luck but don't wash the rocks.
Charles H


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## MrsShirley (Nov 25, 2010)

inkmaker said:


> I see a big problem here. The water changes are important and necessary. But, you are killing the Bacteria that maintain the Nitrogen cycle by cleaning out and Hot water washing everything. Change the water is fine. The heater, the sides of the tank and anything that is wet is where the Bacteria live. Every time you scrub the stuff you restart the Nitrogen cycle up again and the Bacteria need to reestablish themselves.
> 
> Let the tank go unchanged for a week maybe change 1/2 the water in 12 to 14 days. How about aeration? Got an air pump to move the water surface around and turn over the tank water? That would be a good idea. Put the snail back in the tank as long as it is alive.
> 
> ...



I thought what I was doing was okay if I don't have a filter and I am always on time for the water changes. :/


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

ISs he heated?In a three gallon,he needs a filter to keep the water stable,and he must stay warm.I know LPS tell you room tenp is ok,but its not.Him being a halfmoon,he needs warmth to maintain the finnage.He looks like hes been ripped,not finrot.What you should do,is take a new pair of pantyhose.Dry the plastic plants and ornaments,then rub the pantyhose over every inch of the objects.If the hose snaggs,theres the issue.Another thing it could be,is tailbiting.Stress boredome or too heavy finnage will sometime make a male nom his tail.The film on top,is from lack of water movement.While its true they dont like much movement,the water should still circulate a little.


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## inkmaker (Jun 10, 2009)

MrsShirley said:


> I thought what I was doing was okay if I don't have a filter and I am always on time for the water changes. :/


Water changes are good. Just leave the Bacteria to do their work. The Air supply will move the water around and get the water surface to move. No filter necessary. I have done it for 35 years.


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## automatic-hydromatic (Oct 18, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> What you should do,is take a new pair of pantyhose.Dry the plastic plants and ornaments,then rub the pantyhose over every inch of the objects.If the hose snaggs,theres the issue.


I have to ask... what exactly does this point out? :fish9:


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## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

MrsShirley said:


> I thought what I was doing was okay if I don't have a filter and I am always on time for the water changes. :/


I think the best way to determine that is to test your water just before your regular 3-day water change. Pay particular attention to the ammonia and nitrite readings from a liquid test kit (don't use the strips). 

I think in a worst case scenario, you have no beneficial bacteria and you are relying solely on the water change to remove ammonia which may or may not be getting partially converted to nitrites or nitrates by an small surviving colonies of beneficial bacteria. If this is the case, then the water conditions will be worst just before your water change and you can get a feel for what your fish is experiencing then.

How high these chemicals build up is really dependent on many things like how much you feed, how many fish, volume of water, and your maintenance.


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Change the water but just rinse the grave etc in the old water not hot tap water. A small sponge filter would really help keep up the water quality and the movement would get rid of the film. You could also try adding a live plant. A marimo ball or java moss would absorb some ammonia and they do ok with not much light.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

automatic-hydromatic said:


> I have to ask... what exactly does this point out? :fish9:


Longfinned male bettas fins are very delicate.This shows whether the fins are being ripped on objects in the tank.The look of the fish's fins in the first pic look more like he has been ripping them on objects or biting them,not fin rot.Most finrot will not make them ragged and pinholed,but the edges would be gray or red.


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## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Betas nip their own tails? Didn't know that. The film on top of the water is a bio film....normal.


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes bettas will nip their own finnage,especially halfmoons.When the fish is so heavily finned,sometime his tail will weigh him back.You can tell by when he swims,then stops,he falls back.So to eliminate the issue the fish will chew off the extra weight.Or sometimes,they will see the finnage and think its another fish,and nip at it.I have had to trim one of my males fins to get him to spawn,because he couldnt catch the female,and the weight pulling him down,he couldnt show off for her right.Its a very hard thing to do,but honestly i would rather have a male able to swim than super long finnage and not able to swim right.

read up here on it:The Pictoral Saga of a Tail Biter - UltimateBettas


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

majerah1 said:


> I have had to trim one of my males fins to get him to spawn,because he couldnt catch the female,and the weight pulling him down,he couldnt show off for her right.Its a very hard thing to do,but honestly i would rather have a male able to swim than super long finnage and not able to swim right.
> 
> [/url]


I understand trimming the tail, I'd do the same thing , and you seem to take good care of your bettas so I'm not trying to cause trouble but do you think it's really ethical to breed a betta that is unable to swim right? Just something I've wondered about before


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

snail said:


> I understand trimming the tail, I'd do the same thing , and you seem to take good care of your bettas so I'm not trying to cause trouble but do you think it's really ethical to breed a betta that is unable to swim right? Just something I've wondered about before


Well thats the thing.I love the looks of a full finned male,but honestly,i dont breed such a full finned male anymore.I dont think its fair to the fish.Thats why my focus is more on the plakats and wilds now.Dont get me wrong halfmoons are wonderful fish.But its not fair to have him suffer just for a few ribbons.


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## MrsShirley (Nov 25, 2010)

How would you go about trimming the tail? Could this cause infection? Should it be something I do to help him heal?

I've actually thought about trimming it to let it re-grow lol.


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## inkmaker (Jun 10, 2009)

snail said:


> I understand trimming the tail, I'd do the same thing , and you seem to take good care of your bettas so I'm not trying to cause trouble but do you think it's really ethical to breed a betta that is unable to swim right? Just something I've wondered about before


Trimmed fins don't grow back near what was there before they were lost.
It causes loss of blood and threatens bacterial infection or attack from fungus.
Things will settle once you let the tank cycle and some kind of aeration, just an air stone or a small sponge filter to move the surface and turn over the tank water.

Once things settle and the fins don't improve then maybe some Melaleuca medication. I like salt to help the fishes out. But get the tank Bacteria settled so the Bio film is on the gravel and tank walls not the water surface. I will make an exception this one time and suggest only a 95% water change to leave the good Bacteria behind. Give the :betta: a chance to get a good septic tank to live in.

Charles H


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## majerah1 (Oct 29, 2010)

I do not reccomend trimming his fins.It involves removing the fish from the water and holding him in a wet paper towel,and clipping with extra sharp scissors.Then he must be kept in 100% pristine water with Indian Almond Leaves,and salt,at 86 to 89 degrees to heal without risk of infection.Its a very hard thing to do,and one of the reasons i stopped keeping such finny males.What i suggest you do,is the 95% changes like pointed out above.Add salt and look into getting him some of the leaves i mentioned.If you cant get them then find some good dry clean oak leaves and use them in place of the IALs.Check his decor to be sure its not ripping him up,and he should heal soon.


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## inkmaker (Jun 10, 2009)

MrsShirley said:


> How would you go about trimming the tail? Could this cause infection? Should it be something I do to help him heal?
> 
> I've actually thought about trimming it to let it re-grow lol.


JUST DON'T!!

Let's heal the :betta:

Charles H. Harrison, Ph D
Change As Much Water As Often As You Can!!
Tropical Fish Information


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## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Trimming tails is only for fish who are severely handicapped by their tail and can hardly swim. His tail will regrow fine if you leave it like it is. Just try to keep the very water clean and +1 on salt.


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