# Why Am I STILL having Ammonia Readings?!



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Tank has been set up with fish since October.

I do a 50% water change once a week. I have stopped replacing my carbon filters as often (I'm washing them in siphoned tank water and putting them back in service). And I have lessened my gravel cleaning to once every 2 weeks. (I still had ammonia readings when I was replacings my filters completely, and cleaning the gravel weekly).

I do Ammonia and Nitrite testing a few times a week, and I am STILL getting Ammonia readings. The highest it got was 2.0, simply because I was trying to see what would happen if I didn't do a water change. The answer was the Ammonia readings kept climbing. At 2.0 I did a 50% water change, and it is now back down to 1.0. Since I do once a week water changes the Ammonia readings stay between .25 and 1.0. The Nitrite readings continue to be 0.

I feed a couple pinches of food, once a day. I have fed more often and less often - still had no affect on the Ammonia readings.

Beyond frustrated at this point!


----------



## dscobb (Dec 17, 2010)

A few questions.

What type of filtration system do you have?

What is the water temperature?

How much light is your tank getting?


----------



## dscobb (Dec 17, 2010)

A couple of more.

Did you ever get a reading above 0 on Nitrites since you set up the tank in October?

Have you tested for Nitrates and if you have what is the current reading?


----------



## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

dscobb said:


> A few questions.
> 
> What type of filtration system do you have?
> 
> ...


Answer the above questions and also:

If you are using test strips instead of a liquid test kit you may be getting inaccurate readings.

If you are using an expired liquid test kit your readings will be wrong.

If your source water (tap-well-what ever you use) has ammonia in it you will have a hard time reaching zero ammonia.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

dscobb said:


> A few questions.
> 
> What type of filtration system do you have?
> 
> ...



Tetra Whisper EX70
80 degrees Fahrenheit
During the week it only gets a few hours (b/c I'm at work all day). On the weekend the tank usually gets about 10-12 hours of light.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

dscobb said:


> A couple of more.
> 
> Did you ever get a reading above 0 on Nitrites since you set up the tank in October?
> 
> Have you tested for Nitrates and if you have what is the current reading?


Yes. In November I had an awful time with Nitrites spiking and I was changing the water almost daily. By the beginning/middle of December the Ammonia and Nitrites had both gone all the way down to 0 or very trace amounts. I waited a couple of weeks, until I was sure I was fully cycled and added 3 new fish. Ever since the addition of those fish, the levels have never recovered.

I have tested for Nitrates in the past. I'd have to dig through past posts to find the exact level at the time of testing. But I remember the level being fine at the time of testing, and knowing that water changes is what keeps it down. I have not tested for Nitrates recently. I can test when I get home and post levels.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

rtbob said:


> Answer the above questions and also:
> 
> If you are using test strips instead of a liquid test kit you may be getting inaccurate readings.
> 
> ...


I am using a Master API test kit. I don't believe it's expired, but I would have to check when I get home to be certain.

I have also tested my plain tap water, and it does not have Ammonia in it. But I tested the tap water months back, when I first set up the tank - maybe I should test it again to make sure nothing has changed.


----------



## dscobb (Dec 17, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> Tetra Whisper EX70
> 80 degrees Fahrenheit
> During the week it only gets a few hours (b/c I'm at work all day). On the weekend the tank usually gets about 10-12 hours of light.


I don't know how large your fish are but I think your bio load (number and type of fish) may be to large for that filter. Cichlids are messy fish.Your filter probably can't grow enough bacteria to eat all the ammonia your tank is producing. I would consider adding an additional power filter like an Aqua Clear or Marineland Bio-Wheel. Better yet would be to ad a good canister filter. If your not able do that I would reduce the number of fish.

You might also want to get a timer for the tank light so you can provide more light on weekdays.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

dscobb said:


> I don't know how large your fish are but I think your bio load (number and type of fish) may be to large for that filter. Cichlids are messy fish.Your filter probably can't grow enough bacteria to eat all the ammonia your tank is producing. I would consider adding an additional power filter like an Aqua Clear or Marineland Bio-Wheel. Better yet would be to ad a good canister filter. If your not able do that I would reduce the number of fish.
> 
> You might also want to get a timer for the tank light so you can provide more light on weekdays.


All the cichlids except the Blood Parrot, are 3 inches or less.


----------



## WhiteGloveAquatics (Sep 3, 2009)

Also just cleaning the carbon in tank water does nothing, it needs to be reactivated and at home that is darn near unpossible. Carbon is only good for 30 days MAX in an aquarium so your ammonia levels could be from the carbon leaching ammonia back into the aquarium.

"In order to re-activate activated-carbon, it must undergo a process called Pyrolysis. (The thermal decomposition of organic material through the application of heat in the absence of oxygen.). To fully re-activate saturated activated-carbon, you must heat it to approximately 1,472 °F, in a controlled atmosphere of low oxygen concentration to reduce the possibility of combustion. This fact is even stated in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers – Engineering and Design, Adsorption Design Guide, Design Guide No. DG1110-1-2."

I dont have any carbon in any of my tanks, its good for covering up odors thats about it.

Id suggest taking the carbon out of the equation, you can fill it with bio media or even polyfil and change it more often. 

Id personally get rid of it for a ac110 or above or a eheim canister.


----------



## NeonShark666 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ammonia is always the result of the decomposition of organic matter. Since you aren't over feeding, the probable source is a dead snail or fish. One of the purposes of carbon in a filter is to take out ammonia. Always replace your carbon when you clean your filters. You can also get chips (expensive):animated_fish_swimmthat you put in your filter that are especially designed to extract ammonia. Vigourous aeriation will also help get rid of the ammonia. Remember that water at a high ph tends to retain more ammonia than water with a low ph. It's not normal for you to get ammonia readings and no nitrite. Take a sample of your water to your local fish shop or Big Box store and have them test it for you. You may have a bad test kit.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

NeonShark666 said:


> Ammonia is always the result of the decomposition of organic matter. Since you aren't over feeding, the probable source is a dead snail or fish. One of the purposes of carbon in a filter is to take out ammonia. Always replace your carbon when you clean your filters. You can also get chips (expensive):animated_fish_swimmthat you put in your filter that are especially designed to extract ammonia. Vigourous aeriation will also help get rid of the ammonia. Remember that water at a high ph tends to retain more ammonia than water with a low ph. It's not normal for you to get ammonia readings and no nitrite. Take a sample of your water to your local fish shop or Big Box store and have them test it for you. You may have a bad test kit.


No dead fish. They are all accounted for. And my local fish shop is a Petsmart, which uses test strips...the same ones I was told to throw in the trash and buy an API liquid test kit.


----------



## susankat (Nov 15, 2008)

I would add another filter to the equation. With the cichlids they always take more filtration as they are messy fish. Even another filter like you have would help.


----------



## cgskipper (Nov 15, 2010)

What kind, if any, water conditioner are you using? If you use something that locks ammonia, like Prime, you have to use a compatible test kit. I can't remember the details on this, maybe someone else can comment?


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

cgskipper said:


> What kind, if any, water conditioner are you using? If you use something that locks ammonia, like Prime, you have to use a compatible test kit. I can't remember the details on this, maybe someone else can comment?


I am using Prime.


----------



## AliceInDallas (Dec 18, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> I am using a Master API test kit. I don't believe it's expired, but I would have to check when I get home to be certain. I have also tested my plain tap water, and it does not have Ammonia in it. But I tested the tap water months back, when I first set up the tank - maybe I should test it again to make sure nothing has changed.


One thing you might consider is getting a SeaChem Multitest Ammonia Test Kit. Much research has been done on the subject of just what various ammonia test kits are actually measuring .... i.e., does the kit measure 'toxic/free ammonia' (NH3 - that's the toxic form of ammonia, called "free ammonia") vs. 'ionized ammonia' which is non-toxic (NH4+) vs. 'total ammonia' (NH3 + NH4). This is particularly relevant when you are using a Chlorine/Ammonia Detoxifier like Prime or Amquel or AmoLock, and/or when you have a lot of chloramine in your tap water. (Chloramine has two components - chlorine and ammonia - and if your tap water has chloramine in it, you might not get a full ammonia reading in the tap water until you break the chemical bond between chlorine and ammonia with something like Amquel or Prime, etc.) 

For what its worth, various research has said that just because the test kit is liquid vs. strips does not mean that you will get an accurate 'toxic/free ammonia NH3' reading. And further, that 'SeaChem Multitest Ammonia Test Kit' is the only test kit that will give you separate readings for NH3 vs total ammonia. Here's an example of this reported distinguishing feature of SeaChem: Seachem Multitest: Ammonia Test Kit .... which says ".... [SeaChem] is the only kit on the market that can read levels of free ammonia while using ammonia removal products such as Prime, Safe, AmGuard and similar competing products. The other kits (salicylate or Nessler based) determine the total ammonia by raising the pH of the test solution to 12 or greater. At this high pH all ammonia removal products will breakdown and re-release the ammonia, thus giving you a false ammonia reading." 

And also for what it's worth (read: Who knows?) .... other research has said that in an established tank, if your nitrites are reading at zero with multiple non-expired test kits, and your ammonia still reads high (even if you are using a salicylate based ammonia test kit), you are probably measuring total ammonia or NH4 rather than simply the toxic ammonia NH3. 

These are just some things that might be affecting your ammonia readings - perhaps worth considering. Good luck!


----------



## PolymerTim (Sep 22, 2009)

NeonShark666 said:


> Ammonia is always the result of the decomposition of organic matter. Since you aren't over feeding, the probable source is a dead snail or fish. One of the purposes of carbon in a filter is to take out ammonia. Always replace your carbon when you clean your filters. You can also get chips (expensive):animated_fish_swimmthat you put in your filter that are especially designed to extract ammonia. Vigourous aeriation will also help get rid of the ammonia. Remember that water at a high ph tends to retain more ammonia than water with a low ph. It's not normal for you to get ammonia readings and no nitrite. Take a sample of your water to your local fish shop or Big Box store and have them test it for you. You may have a bad test kit.


Just as a note, activated carbon is very poor at removing ammonia, which is why the labeling usually doesn't recommend it for this purpose. The zeolite chips are much better for that purpose.

To me it sounds like your biofilter is just being overwhelmed. I'm going to second the suggestions to add additional filtration.


----------



## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

plants could do a lot for removing ammonia, if the right plants are used. i have tested several different types of plants for thier ability to directly remove ammonia from the water, and some can do it faster than any filter. the only problem is that the best plants for the job dont hold up well to cichlids. you might try adding some watersprite though, it does fine when allowed to float, grows incredibly fast, and in my experience cichlids will leave it alone once it starts to take off. i tested a six inch wide floating watersprite once in 5 gallons of water with an air stone against a five gallon with a filter and no plant. at 4ppm, the watersprite tank took 7 hours to go to 0ppm, the filter took about 30.


----------



## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

oh yeah, the filter was a whisper HOB, made for a ten gallon tank. dont remember much more than that about the filter.


----------



## rtbob (Jul 18, 2010)

I too would suggest adding another filter. When my Mbuna were in my 55 I had a Tetra AFS 30-60 and a Whisper 30-60.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like too many fish not enough filter to me also, although it is a valid point that sometimes ammonia still shows on a test after it has been 'locked'.

I don't know much about Cichlids but 11 three inch fish sounds like a big bio load for a 56 gallon tank.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Auban said:


> plants could do a lot for removing ammonia, if the right plants are used. i have tested several different types of plants for thier ability to directly remove ammonia from the water, and some can do it faster than any filter. the only problem is that the best plants for the job dont hold up well to cichlids. you might try adding some watersprite though, it does fine when allowed to float, grows incredibly fast, and in my experience cichlids will leave it alone once it starts to take off. i tested a six inch wide floating watersprite once in 5 gallons of water with an air stone against a five gallon with a filter and no plant. at 4ppm, the watersprite tank took 7 hours to go to 0ppm, the filter took about 30.


Can you recommend a good place to read about water sprite? From what I've read so far it look easy to care for and it might be a good, inexpensive way for me to get my feet wet with plants. And if my cichlids destroy them, I won't be out too much $$$.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I would just search for plants that go with cichlids from the beginning.


----------



## Auban (Aug 8, 2010)

i really dont know of any great sites to read about it. when i first got it, it came in with a fish i got at a LFS. they were just a couple cm wide, floating on the water surface. i asked what they were and was told "duckweed?". i knew it wasnt duckweed, so i decided to put it in my tank and let it grow untill i could identify it. within three weeks its roots had created a nice thick mop extending 6 inches into the tank and the leaves covered the area of a dinner plate. at that point i planted it and noticed that its new leaves started growing in a different shape. i googled aquarium plants untill i found pictures matching what i had when i learned it was watersprite. it propogates by adventitious plantlets on the leaves, so can multiply quite quickly. if you ever want more all you have to do is pich off a leaf and let it float, you will have more little plants in no time. its also quite fragile, so your cichlids would probably obliterate them unless they are floating. mine just hide under the floating plants but they devour anything planted.


----------



## Digitalxs (Jan 17, 2011)

You said in December you got readings of 0 Ammonia, and Nitrites. What were your nitrate readings? Your tank was probably cycled at that point, and you could have added fish after a min. 50% water change. You mentioned you waited a couple of weeks "until I was sure it was fully cycled". During those couple of weeks, did you provide an ammonia source? If not, you starved the bacteria, and started a new cycle when you added the fish. You are now in the midst of a new cycle with fish.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Digitalxs said:


> You said in December you got readings of 0 Ammonia, and Nitrites. What were your nitrate readings? Your tank was probably cycled at that point, and you could have added fish after a min. 50% water change. You mentioned you waited a couple of weeks "until I was sure it was fully cycled". During those couple of weeks, did you provide an ammonia source? If not, you starved the bacteria, and started a new cycle when you added the fish. You are now in the midst of a new cycle with fish.


Back in December, the Nitrates were less than 5.0 ppm. I added 3 new fish to the tank after waiting a couple of weeks when the Ammonia and Nitrite readings maintained 0. During that couple of weeks, I still had the original 9 fish in the tank that I started with, so that should have been an Ammonia source, right?


----------



## Digitalxs (Jan 17, 2011)

Sorry I missed that. Yes, the fish would have provided the ammonia.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Update:

I did my weekly 50% water change on Sunday, during which I vacuumed the gravel. Since then I have seen a spike in Ammonia and Nitrites. Actually the Ammonia level is pretty much in line with the levels I've been getting, but I did get a trace of Nitrites on Sunday. I tested the water again today to see where the levels were and Ammonia was between 1.0 and 2.0 ppm. Nitrites were .50 ppm.

I did a 25% water change, and will continue to monitor. Green Terror not looking so hot, though. . Other fish seem to be fine.


----------



## AliceInDallas (Dec 18, 2010)

In Reply to your Post Re: Why Am I STILL having Ammonia Readings?!: Hello. I'm the hobbyist who recently left a message for you about Chloramine in tap water being composed of Chlorine and toxic or "free" Ammonia (NH3) .... and that when you use Prime or Ammolock or AmQuel or similar dechlorinators, you are breaking the chemical bond between these two elements, resulting in DEtoxified Chlorine and NON-toxic ionized Ammonia (which is NH4) in your aquarium. 

As I read about your continued (and certainly valiant) efforts to get to zero toxic ammonia, I am still wondering if your test kit is actually measuring ONLY the TOXIC ammonia (which is NH3) .... or is it measuring either NH4 or NH3 + NH4 ("total ammonia"). If it's not measuring ONLY the presence of NH3, you could be running yourself and your fish through a wringer with unnecessary major water changes. 

Remember that when you test your water after use of a dechlorinator, with most of the test kits on the market you can get a falsely "high" ammonia reading (regardless of whether you use the strips or the liquid and test tubes). This is because the reagents they use don't differentiate between toxic NH3 and non-toxic NH4/Total Ammonia (for various reasons best left to the chemistry professors out there). 

How to avoid this and get an accurate NH3 (toxic ammonia) reading? The SeaChem Multitest Ammonia Test Kit is able to measure ONLY the toxic ammonia (NH3). This test kit uses a different testing reagent which can make those distinctions. It costs about $18.00. There are a couple of others out there that are harder to find, which purport to do the same thing - Mardel, for one - but they get mixed reviews. And no, I don't work for SeaChem. *old dude  I am just a retired social worker who runs a continuing education website, and loves fish. 

SeaChem also makes a much less expensive Ammonia Alert card that you place inside your aquarium on the glass with a little suction cup (and leave it there - changing it out occasionally). It costs about $6.50. Just like the more expensive test kit, this alert card measures ONLY toxic ammonia. If the little dot in the center turns from yellow to green or to blue, you know that you in fact have a toxic ammonia problem. If it stays yellow, you are good to go. You can read about it on the Foster and Smith website at Aquarium Water Quality & Testing: Seachem Ammonia Alert Device .... and PetsMart carries it in most of their stores. Some people use this as a general basic alert for the presence of toxic ammonia, and then buy the more expensive complete test kit just to be sure or to get a more detailed reading if the Alert Card indicates problems.

One observation made in some publications makes the point that if you have any significant degree of chloramine in your tap water, every time you do a major water change and treat it with a Chlorine and Chloramine neutralizer, you are continuing to increase the amount of NH4 in your water .... and so you will typically continue to see a false ammonia reading with most kits - maybe even somewhat higher. (Eventually the NH4 dissipates, if you don't continue to add a lot of new dechlorinated tap water.) 

This is NOT to say that we should not do water changes. Of course we should. It's just pointing out that if you are doing major water changes because of a falsely high ammonia reading (i.e., using the wrong test kit), you are spinning your wheels, and maybe stressing your fish (and yourself) unnecessarily.

So it might be worth a shot - getting the SeaChem Multitest Ammonia Test kit or the SeaChem Ammonia Alert card - just to see what you get when you know that you are measuring ONLY toxic Ammonia NH3. This test kit looks sort of intimidating, but all you do is to remove one of the little crystal disks from the small jar with tweezers, and place it into one of the indentations in a plastic "test plate", which holds an eye dropper full of your detoxified aquarium water, and time it, and then compare the color to the chart. And put the little crystal disk back into the small jar. The reason they call it "multi-test" is because there are six little indentations in the plastic test plate, which allow you to test six aquariums at once. The test kit costs about $18.00 but does 75 tests.


Best of luck to you .... and if you do try either the SeaChem Toxic Ammonia Alert card or the full test kit, I hope that you get a pleasant surprise!


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> Update:
> 
> I did my weekly 50% water change on Sunday, during which I vacuumed the gravel. Since then I have seen a spike in Ammonia and Nitrites. Actually the Ammonia level is pretty much in line with the levels I've been getting, but I did get a trace of Nitrites on Sunday. I tested the water again today to see where the levels were and Ammonia was between 1.0 and 2.0 ppm. Nitrites were .50 ppm.
> 
> I did a 25% water change, and will continue to monitor. Green Terror not looking so hot, though. . Other fish seem to be fine.


Keep doing daily 25% until the ammonia gets to a manageable level, ie <1.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm still thinking too many large fish and a tank and filter that aren't coping with the large bio load.

If problems persist you should look into re-homing some of your fish or upgrading your filter and probably tank.


----------



## Anna Robinson (Sep 2, 2009)

AliceInDallas said:


> Remember that when you test your water after use of a dechlorinator, with most of the test kits on the market you can get a falsely "high" ammonia reading (regardless of whether you use the strips or the liquid and test tubes). This is because the reagents they use don't differentiate between toxic NH3 and non-toxic NH4/Total Ammonia (for various reasons best left to the chemistry professors out there).


But it isn't a "false" high - the ammonia is in there. It's a real reading. Yes, it may be in a form that is not currently harmful to the fish, but it's still there when it shouldn't be. Any ammonia reading means the filter isn't coping, for whatever reason. 

Most of the time, it would actually be unhelpful to use kits that _didn't_ show the non-toxic ammonia. How on earth would you know when your tank was cycled?

I take the point that water-changing out the non-toxic ammonia may not be necessary on the face of it, as it _is _non-toxic. But it's only going to turn to nitrite, so it has to be got out somehow.


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

Anna Robinson said:


> But it isn't a "false" high - the ammonia is in there. It's a real reading. Yes, it may be in a form that is not currently harmful to the fish, but it's still there when it shouldn't be. Any ammonia reading means the filter isn't coping, for whatever reason.
> 
> Most of the time, it would actually be unhelpful to use kits that _didn't_ show the non-toxic ammonia. How on earth would you know when your tank was cycled?
> 
> I take the point that water-changing out the non-toxic ammonia may not be necessary on the face of it, as it _is _non-toxic. But it's only going to turn to nitrite, so it has to be got out somehow.


FWIW the seachem multi test ammonia does measure free and total ammonia.

Using that you can determine if ammonia lock products would be useful.

IMHO the best way to get ammonia out is to let plants consume it then as bacteria build up the bacteria. Of course that requires the ability to resist the temptation of conducting water changes, adding chemicals and so on.

what I do is simply start the tank with lotsa plants and let the system set for the first week. That way any initial ammonia and other things are processed by the plants producing a safe environment for the fish. Then add the fish slowly with very very little food being added. As a result any ammonia spikes I get are less the 1/2 ppm and only last a day at most.


just my .02


----------



## AliceInDallas (Dec 18, 2010)

Anna Robinson said:


> But it isn't a "false" high - the ammonia is in there. It's a real reading. Yes, it may be in a form that is not currently harmful to the fish, but it's still there when it shouldn't be. Any ammonia reading means the filter isn't coping, for whatever reason. Most of the time, it would actually be unhelpful to use kits that _didn't_ show the non-toxic ammonia. How on earth would you know when your tank was cycled?


Assuming that your tank was not set up "yesterday", you can get a pretty good picture of whether or not the tank is cycled if you have virtually zero nitrites and only a trace of nitrates, and a reading which indicates zero (or just a trace of) toxic ammonia NH3. And you would expect to see this stable situation under normal circumstances, day to day, with only small and short-lived "spikes". 

With this hobbyist, if I read his posts correctly, it appears that he is doing major water changes using tap water and a dechlorinator ..... more than once a week there for awhile, and now apparently every week. And he is doing it because he thinks that the fish are in danger - which they aren't, if the only significant persisting ammonia in his tank is non-toxic NH4, and if his nitrites are at or near zero. 

I think your major point is that he needs to get that non-toxic ammonia NH4 out of there, even if it's non-toxic - and that he should therefore continue to do major water changes on as frequent a basis as is needed to get rid of the NH4. 

The_problem with continuing to do frequent major water changes when there is no toxic situation at hand, is this: You are adding a new slug of ammonia into your tank every_time you do a major water change with city water which has Chloramine in it - because your Prime or Ammolock or whatever is going to split apart the Chloramine into Chlorine and Ammonia. 

So unless you are using RO or another purified source of water (without chloramine) to do these frequent big water changes, you are in fact adding_more_ammonia to your tank with every major addition of tap water. And thus your biological filter won't be able to keep up, i.e., it won't have a chance to get rid of the NH4 naturally. If given a chance, the biofilter will in fact get rid of the NH4 naturally .... but that's a tough thing to do if you are continually dosing it with the bi-products of chloramine. 

And so there is a definite benefit to knowing whether your "high ammonia" reading is from toxic ammonia NH3 vs. non-toxic NH4. If it's due to NH3, YES you have to act quickly and remove it through water changes and addition of Prime or whatever product you choose. But if it's due only to non-toxic NH4, and your nitrites are very low or non-existent, you can give the tank and the fish a bit of a rest, allowing the biological filter to do its thing, which will remove the NH4 along with the usual daily load of fish-waste generated ammonia.

I for one am looking forward to the day when my municipal water system starts using something other than chloramine to clean up our tap water. I don't drink the stuff, my dogs don't drink it - and it's just a shame that our fish have to be subject to it. Nasty stuff.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Anna Robinson said:


> But it isn't a "false" high - the ammonia is in there. It's a real reading. Yes, it may be in a form that is not currently harmful to the fish, but it's still there when it shouldn't be. Any ammonia reading means the filter isn't coping, for whatever reason.
> 
> Most of the time, it would actually be unhelpful to use kits that _didn't_ show the non-toxic ammonia. How on earth would you know when your tank was cycled?
> 
> I take the point that water-changing out the non-toxic ammonia may not be necessary on the face of it, as it _is _non-toxic. But it's only going to turn to nitrite, so it has to be got out somehow.


I thought that 'locked' ammonia can't be used by the bacteria in the filter.


----------



## beaslbob (May 29, 2009)

snail said:


> I thought that 'locked' ammonia can't be used by the bacteria in the filter.


could be.

What I heard is that the locked ammonia will slowly be released back as free ammonia so the bacteria/plants can then remove it.


my .02


----------



## Anna Robinson (Sep 2, 2009)

AliceInDallas said:


> Assuming that your tank was not set up "yesterday", you can get a pretty good picture of whether or not the tank is cycled if you have virtually zero nitrites and only a trace of nitrates, and a reading which indicates zero (or just a trace of) toxic ammonia NH3. And you would expect to see this stable situation under normal circumstances, day to day, with only small and short-lived "spikes".


But you would also get these exact same readings in a completely uncycled tank with acidic water. So I think you really do need to see all ammonia. 


AliceInDallas said:


> The_problem with continuing to do frequent major water changes when there is no toxic situation at hand, is this: You are adding a new slug of ammonia into your tank every_time you do a major water change with city water which has Chloramine in it


The residual ammonia from chloramine will as a rule be much less than the ammonia in the water in a tank that is undergoing a fish-in cycle. So water changes, even with water that is disinfected with chloramine, will still massively dilute this ammonia. I agree it's not perfect though - if possible, something like Nitra-Zorb (Aqua Detox) which actually removes the ammonia would be better.



snail said:


> I thought that 'locked' ammonia can't be used by the bacteria in the filter.


With Ammo Lock, the 'locked' ammonia is still fully available to the filter bacteria. I don't have definite info about other brands but I would imagine it's the same for them.


----------



## snail (Aug 6, 2010)

Anna Robinson said:


> With Ammo Lock, the 'locked' ammonia is still fully available to the filter bacteria. I don't have definite info about other brands but I would imagine it's the same for them.


The company that makes it says this but I'm still not convinced that it is that simple. They also say it does not deprive the water of oxygen. I'd be interested in some independent information on this one, it's some thing I've been wondering about for a while.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks for keeping this thread going, everyone. I like reading the discussion back and forth.

Just as an update, the Green Terror did not make it...which is sad, but also 1 less bio-load on my filter. I am tending to agree with the too many fish theory, b/c when I had the original 10 fish, the tank finished cycling and the water chemistry was fine for 2 weeks. Then I added 3 new fish and the chemistry has never been right since.

Losing the Green Terror puts me down to 11 in the tank. So I hope I am working my way back towards equilibium. I am also trying to get my aunt to take a few, since she has a cichlid tank as well...


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

I was going to ask what you ended up doing. I knew you were looking into different filtration and was wondering if you had decided on anything. Sorry to hear about your fish.


----------



## marmstrong (Nov 11, 2010)

It was my plan to buy an Eheim canister, but I can't fine one locally for my size tank. So right now I am just doing water changes to keep the level tolerable until I can rehome.


----------



## jrman83 (Jul 9, 2010)

marmstrong said:


> It was my plan to buy an Eheim canister, but I can't fine one locally for my size tank. So right now I am just doing water changes to keep the level tolerable until I can rehome.


My opinion...you don't want to buy one locally. The only store I could find locally that had any model Eheim canisters wanted more than $100 more for what you could buy it for on the internet. Foster's and Smith Aqautics is the cheapest place I have found them and with $8.99 standard shipping hard to beat.


----------

